Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Fifty


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593 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Fifty

  1. Hi everyone you may know me as Mike Cowling aka Cowlazars on YouTube aka MDC777 on the forums. I am going to create a “Forrest Fenn searcher coin” as a souvenir, gift, momento or to leave out in the field for others to find. I need your help to come up with a design. Submit the design to cowlazars@gmail.com by April 27th and Forrest is going to pick the one he likes the most and that person will get 3 free coins or a copy of The Thrill of the Chase. I hope to have the coins ready for purchase by Memorial Day weekend. More details will be forthcoming so get those designs in by the 27th. I have 2 videos below that explain the idea and the contest. Let me know what you think of a Forrest Fenn searcher coin!

    Mike Cowling



    • cowlazars- what i think of a Forrest Fenn searcher token? please dont tarnish Forrest’s image with a token.

      yeah, ranks right up there with the minted John Wayne token.. the guy was born Marion Robert Morrison and then somehow became Marion Mitchell Morrison, and wikipedia even gives the name Marion Michael Morrison. we never knew this guy so it really doesnt matter. because the actor we knew was John Wayne, or Duke. everyone loved duke, so much they minted a token with his image. this token can still be purchased for 19.95$ in my opinion it is worth nothing.

      dont have a token minted with the thrill of the chase image. please.
      Forrest Fenn is a real person, not an actor. Forrest stands for reality.
      the treasure hunt is real, not a movie.
      real coins bear the likeness of great people and have value. Forrest is great but not enough to put on a coin.

      i think.

  2. I am out this week to look for my last location for the treasure. I’m in New Mexico and the whole state is under a fire danger watch. It’s also spring and the black bears have come out of hibernation and I don’t know where the hell the Cougars are looking at me from. My friends won’t go with me anymore. I’m going solo. A can of bear spray is $35. I’m going to get a can of spray alarm and a big stick. I’m broke but I’m hunting for the treasure. This is the year that I will find it.. I wish everybody the best under search as well. Let’s all find it this year.
    This is my assumption of “where warm waters halt” Someone has to start giving up clues.
    It’s residential homes that stop or halt directly at the edge of a canyon. Forrest said that warm waters occur throughout the rocky mountains.
    He also said that he was afraid that somone might see him.


      • Hi Michael, I read the latest Amtrak article and I noticed it talked of you. I am curious how the author came about knowing of you?

        • I don’t know how the author knew of me. Either they asked Dal about some of the characters in the chase, or maybe they are a searcher.
          I was recently surprised when somebody recognized me and asked about the chase. I was just sitting at the bar, listening to the blues. When Mark asked if I knew what the HOB is. I like to let my imagination fly, and I blab about places that catch my interest. Sometimes with GPS and photos. Somebody must be paying attention. Surprise.

    • That notion of WWH is not the worst I have heard. Something FF said has made consider the same.

      Good luck DB

      • made me consider I should say. That being said I do have a few different theories, strategies, and locations.

      • To be fair, “not the worst I have heard” isn’t saying much considering some of the ideas that pass through various places.

        • True, but the sentence after that should tell you I don’t mean that it is close to the worst. In SB 99.5 he mentions warm water as it relates to this idea:

          “How fortunate we are to have the luxury of warm water and electricity, an extravagance that 80% of the world population doesn’t have. That fact is not lost on me.”

    • I once used the edge of town as my WWWH in an old Leadville Colorado solution… I eventually judged the solution as ill-concieved ….. But still believe it to be a clever interpretation of WWWH…. Though my current solution does not make use of it…
      Good luck Dogbone!
      And to all who brave the wood this season!!

    • Uh…
      Warm Waters…. Atlantic waters on South side of the mountain.
      Halt…. halting movement, limping along, the upper drainfield.
      Good luck

    • dogbone or anyone else who would like to reply,
      When and where (email, interview, blog, etc.) did FF say that he was afraid someone might see him? I have not heard or read this before.
      This statement will have an effect on my solve…..proximity/probability of being seen.
      Good luck on your trip…be safe.
      Many thanks.

  3. Has anyone ever checked out W Denny Creek Rd off of old route 20 below Hebgen Lake? Using Madison Junction as WWWH….
    I don’t recall reading about anyone ever referencing it… But I could be mistaken….
    It seems a lot of searchers are interested in that general area…
    What about coffin peak?

      • It’s approx. a 10 mile hike to coffin mountain [recalling from memory]… that’s 40 mile in two trips
        However, I’m curious what got you to think about that particular peak?

        • Just throwing darts seeker… Looking for a place to put in below the home of brown and no place for the meek…
          Seemed like Denny Creek Rd might be a suitable no paddle creek?

          • I’m new to this puzzle, so sorry if this is naive or useless question but the term ‘put-in’ generally means kayak or canoe to me. Mr. FF states he made two trips that day from his vehicle. Has it ever been determined (he’s clarified) if he had a small boat or this was all on foot? I live in the Midwest, hence. won’t be on the search for the treas but I read his poem as a pure Naturalist. I think you’re looking for a natural creek side lair easily accessible by kayak/canoe. Perhaps he needed two trips, one for boat then back for 40lb trunk. Heavy for an 80yo (as he states) or anyone.

          • Blaze = stand of birch or aspen in Autumn…. hurry out because thats bear territory. Good luck! 🙂

    • Hebgen Lake, Yellowstone? Geysers make for warm water. But did a Southwest guy like FF get that far North with his treasure-chest? Yellowstone certainly is rough terrain for an 80yo!

  4. Seeker, do you happen to know if Forrest service roads in Montana are open to the public? If so, are they well maintained or little more than goat paths?

    • Lurker,

      Sometimes you have to cross private property to get to a service road, don’t go unless you have permission. If the road starts at a county road access is open, as with no gate no fences. Best to look at a map to see that it’s in a national forest.

      Just Say’n

      • Thank you CharlieM!
        Just looking for now… Searching GE for viable alternative solutions…
        But I’ll certainly keep the private property thing in mind….
        Do you know how well these roads are maintained….? Some look like little more than paths on GE…

        • For some national forests you can get maps of what service roads are open and which are gated in their websites. Also get the service road number and run it through google to see what other information is out there. For example local mountain bikers might be posting about a service road that’s a good for biking and mention something about parking at a gate and riding from there.

          • Just looked up the Hegben and Coffin lake areas. Turns out I think I’ve been fly-fishing on one of those two a few times. Stayed at the Rainbow Ranch on the Gallatin River and rode in both times. It’s been several years and it must be even more popular tourist area now! So there must be lots of hikers, we saw Grizzlies (in distance) from our horses also. Problem is that any warm water flowing into those rivers is quite far away, certainly more than a ‘few miles’ as FF states he walked. One of the most beautiful,places in the U.S. IMO. God’s Country for sure, but only accessible summer months when passes open up and rangers clear fallen trees.

  5. I don’t know if anyone has this answer, but I am looking for source information on the ‘take a sandwich and a flashlight quote.’ Is there anyone who can point me to the exact quote/source material?

    If you can, you are amazingly!!!!

  6. To y’all, lets get into the thick of it. I’ve read this chatter for 2.5 yrs. My question is, how many of you have a 99 percent solve at this time, after almost 8 yrs.? Be honest with yourself and others here, including you Mr. Dal, and the sleeper Mr. Goofy. I will answer my own question. I am! ,and with that said, there’s no arrogance on my part what so ever. I’m humbled, and I could be wrong in my solve. To everyone on this blog, where do you stand??

    • Afana,

      I’m in the boat for having a solution that is 99% complete. I don’t know if I’m correct but I’m pretty confident in it. Only time will tell…


      • I think GCG is also there with you both (although he would say 100%). Good luck to everyone. It will more than likely end this year according to the chatter.

          • It was my inside joke for GCG Afana (which happens to be correct imo).

            GCG can correct the record if he chooses.

          • Afana & Morecowbell,

            To be precise in my speak I’ll use Forrest words:
            “Let’s coin a new phrase. You can’t have a “correct solve” unless you can knowingly go to within several steps of the treasure chest.”

            I believe my solutions meet this definition. BOTG are required for the last clue and I know what the family is looking for…Morecowbell!


    • I am at least 99.5% sure of my current solution…. I have 9 clues identified and solved and have yet to find an ATF which does anything but confirm my solution..
      I’ve even identified a likely hidey spot via GE at my location….

      All that being said, I can identify at least six other searchers who profess 100% confidence in their own solutions in three completely different states….
      On the other hand, I’ve only been at this since February, I’ve never read any of the books and have yet to set BOTG… so what do I know???

      • LOL Swwot

        I think searcher should answer with their area of search…
        I’d bet all fours states will be mentioned. That along should put the “confidence” idea in perspective. As GCG posted fenn’s quote;

        * Let’s coin a new phrase. You can’t have a “correct solve” unless you can knowingly go to within several steps of the treasure chest. Otherwise you have a “general solve.” What do you think? f …

        ‘Knowingly go’ ~ ‘Certainty of the location beforehand’ …

    • Afana
      Are you looking in New Mexico?
      I have been working on this poem for close to 2 years now.
      I have been getting closer and closer to my solve.
      My steps and solution gives me a 99.7777 percent confidence level.
      LOL, I sleep better at night now.
      The poem does not run through my head over and over now.
      I just grin and think how brilliant Forrest Fenn is……
      Now, I could be wrong, ok, no problem.
      Yet, even with the solution I have come up with, I still have to say he has proven he is a great architect.
      So I might NOT find the gold, but I have totally enjoyed the thrill of the chase.

    • Afane;

      I am in the 100% category. I HAVE solved all nine clues. I KNOW where to look, and I KNOW what to look for. Is that arrogance? Probably. I prefer to call it confidence earned after 16 attempts. At last, ALL of the pieces fit – The poem – the book hints and the ATF comments and posts that I have found helpful.

      Is it Memorial Day yet? >>> Darn!! >>> JDA

        • Thanks morecowbell. I hope you are right, and (of course) I hope that that lucky person is me. STAY SAFE – JDA

      • glass half full or half empty? JDA – I don’t believe you HAVE solved the clues…I believe you THINK you have. I get it, you’re excited and ready to go get it…I am a realist (i.e. pessimist in some people’s view), IMHO, I believe those that have tried so many times without success are simply wrong with their locations…doing the same things, expecting different results (not saying you haven’t adjusted, just that blind faith will not make it so). Not saying you are wrong, maybe you really have some new ideas, but I truly believe the chest will not be found this year, and we will see a ton of busted solves/nice vacations. If I’m wrong, I just want to hear the results, hoping the finder will share with us all. Just to keep it light, how many of you use the ‘gold’ aspect in your early clues (not just the stanza 6 line)…my thought on this is that maybe you could add the word ‘gold’ to certain clues, maybe as the ‘it’, but more like….clue #x + ‘and gold’…thoughts?

        I have ZERO confidence in my own solves, this is a fun hobby/distraction, and I already enjoy the outdoors and live in CO, so this is just one more reason to get out there and have some fun. Good luck to everyone going searching this year, stay safe. I’m staying home at the moment but at least one or two fishing trips planned (working on a new one that I really want to share, still in WY…a place I haven’t heard discussed/mentioned, but then I don’t surf all the blogs, just HOD).

        • Tbug;

          I hope you are wrong. To me, the glass is always more than half full. I refuse to be pessimistic. I TRY to be a realist, but sometimes fail. Good luck when you do go out – JDA

    • Based on the information I looled at, my conclusion is the following.

      wwwh halts at a beaver dam.

      Follow the original source of water, since the original stream path is now buried under the beaver pond, you take the path down underwater.

      Tells, have to swim.

      Entrance to beaver lodge

      Have to enter the beaver lodge.

      Tells you which entrance of the lodge to enter as lodges have two rooms.

      Beaver paddles their way up into the lodge.

      Describes the correct lodge as they can weigh several tons.

      Tells you the blaze is marking the correct lodge to go into.

      Fenn was asked if he used any other mode of transport than walking from his car to the spot and he said he didnt want to give that as a clue. Swimming would be a huge clue.

      If you are brave and in the wood, tells you need to enter the lodge. Theres several YouTube videos that have people enter lodges.

      • Kira;

        Inventive – Imaginative! Question???? Didn’t Forrest say wwwh not associated with a dam? Just askin’ – JDA

        • Yes and no JDA.
          he referred to a man made dam where the flumes would release warm water. He said this as a safety guide as people were searching beloe man-made dams.

          • Hi Kira – you will probably want to consider this one:

            Forrest: But I’ll tell you what, I think I made a mistake on, on, I think it was on Dal’s blog. I told somebody that, that, the… the clue… part… a dam was not part of the clues.
            Host: Okay.
            Forrest: Where warm waters halt is one of the clues and they… a lot of people figured that’s where water is letting out of a dam.
            Host: What about a beaver dam?
            Forrest: That’s a dam.
            Host: Okay.
            Forrest: That’s no clue.
            Host: There’s no dam.
            Forrest: But, I told this one person it’s not related to a dam and so I felt like that’s the only person that knows so I had to announce that as one of the clues; I didn’t want to give that as a clue, but…
            Host: But you did it here on Dal’s blog?
            Forrest: I did it on Dal’s blog so that everybody would play on the same field.
            Host: Exactly, so you needed to be fair.
            Forrest: I didn’t want to give that as a clue, but I had to. (36:49)

          • JCM,

            You are familiar with many second hand pieces of info… I’d like your opinion on a couple of thoughts, if you care to share. or anyone else…

            The interview you posted states; a beaver hut is a dam, and fenn said; “that’s no clue” [add: wwwh is not a dam dam comment to the equation as well ]
            We also have; ‘the treasure is not associated with a structure’ and a 2nd hand comment about; hoB and a structure [ Cynthia’s post ]

            We can read these as; hoB is not associated with a structure because hoB Is/should be considered ‘associated’ with the “treasure” [ as seemingly implied ]… then would you agree that there is no dam involved with any clues as well?

            I’ll even say why I’m asking. I think it’s beneficial for us to understand how ‘associated’ is meant in reference to, a clue OR all clues. It may help folks think about running a muck with a solve… {well, most anyways. There’ll always be 7% that will dive into an empty pool }

            LOL, I’m asking you because you [ and a shout out to loco as well ] having a vast library of quotes and second hand pieces of info. And you posted this interview. But anyone is welcomed to chime in… err
            …Well, unless you disagree with me. lol.

          • Seeker;

            Just my opinion, no quotes to back it up.
            You pose the following:
            “We can read these as; hoB is not associated with a structure because hoB Is/should be considered ‘associated’ with the “treasure” [ as seemingly implied ]… then would you agree that there is no dam involved with any clues as well?”

            I agree that there is no dam involved with any clues – using the same logic as the no structures associated with hoB = no structures associated with any of the clues since Forrest said no structure associated with the treasure. JMO – JDA

      • Kira—- if I ever see this headline I might say your thinking is correct:



      • Kira,
        Are you actually going to go into a beaver hut?

        While I can’t be sure fenn meant a ‘ beaver dam’ with his comment wwwh is not a dam… for me a Dam is just that, a dam. And a dam is a structure no matter who or what built it.

        However, you do realize that a beaver dam is made of mud as well, and is always in need of repair, and the entrance is only large enough for that beavers-?- and more than likely underwater? [ at least all the ones I trapped at ].

        Might I ask; how you plan on pulling a 42 lb 10″ sq chest out of that hole, through the water, to the surface and make it to solid land? I mean, I know what a 40lb beaver is like to pull out of water, and they still have buoyancy. Not to mention extra lbs for the water in an unlocked chest.
        My only other question would be… will that beaver dam be there in the year 3009 or even traceable back to it, by a searcher 100 years or a 1000 years down the road?

        I would also like to advise you to check the waters very well… if trapping is permitted, underwater snare trap can be difficult to see, and normally place near the entrance.

        I can only imagine the new headlines…

        Oh right… have fun, because it the experience of the search that is important!

        • Kira,

          This does not feel safe to the point that children can participate.

          Without saying it can be a trap …

          Think about it … see FF tips and safety advice.

          Stay safe and enjoy yourself.

        • Boo ya. Another helpful discussion in this blog. You people are showing the world your wit and peace. Stay safe. Until next time my friend

      • A beaver dam really isnt a dam.

        The good stuff really starts at about 18:00.
        About 18:50 really clarifys halt.

          • Kira,

            Your theory about going into a beaver hut is not a smart thing to do. The entrance is way to small for a grown person let alone a 6 year old child. It’s also a good place to get entangled in branches and sticks either going in and out. That is a very risky thing to do, not to mention the hours and days it might take to rescue someone.

            Beaver huts are very hard to take apart, those sticks branches and whatever else they used to make those huts, not to mention the dried mud is generally hard like concrete.

            I grew up around beaver dams and huts growing up in Monatana. If you could ask my brother, he got stuck in a hut and it wasn’t pretty and he had just turned seven. It took a little over a day to get him out and the work was done by many hands, equipment sinks and usually are among brush and trees We had just torn down a dam a couple of weeks earlier so there was no water at the base entrance which is usually under water and from there it goes up above the pond water line on the inside.

            When I said torn down a beaver dam it was more blowing up.

            Sorry, but I hope you would rethink about associating the poem to beavers and their living quarters.

            Just Say’n

          • Hi Kira,
            I like it! How about this?
            BIWWWH=beaver dam
            ATIINCD,NFBTFTW=as you said

            Period after NFBTFTW=stop! wait! don’t go in the beaver dam!

            instead, PIBTHOB (just downstream)?

          • CharlieM
            Read this person on lodges, kids have an advantage over adults and all that fenn said but didnt want to explain how.


            Reading other sections as to how shallow ponds really are. Is enlightening too.

            LadyV theres only one way to know.

            I guess my question would be, would people be happier if Fenn shoved the chest into a loggers pile of trimmings? If so, then how different is that than a lodge?

          • Kira…do you think a beaver colony in upper Michigan would be equivalent to one in the Rocky Mountains (in the mountains being the key phrase here)? My point is that Michigan geography would typically not involve high mountain creeks/rivers, the key here being elevation drops…in 1000 years, do you think massive snow/rain events could wash a lodge/dam out? While I can agree the possibility exists that generations of beavers could keep a site going, I don’t agree that FF would tie the chase to that possibility…ie if the dam/lodge washes away (major flood) and the box goes with it (unlocked remember), do you think the treasure would stay intact? I say no way he would risk that possibility, he wants the finder to see the entire contents together, not strewn down river from some past flooding event. Just my opinion, maybe you have a spot that is well protected…I would argue that place doesn’t exist on/in a creek river in the rocky mountains. I have been fishing the north platte river near the CO/WY border for 20+ years…the snow melt in some years can be down right terrifying…I am not saying I think a river is in play, but all of those little creeks and streams can be impacted by unusual water years…in 2014 the Steamboat ski area received over 500″ of snow, the mountain range to the north saw similar levels…the Yampa and the N platte that year saw extreme spring flooding…over 6000 cu ft/ sec on the n platte! (average high water is maybe 2000)…you need to see/hear those kind of water flows to understand the magnitude…not trivial. Another place is the east side of Independence pass near Aspen…holy crap, I was there in early summer several years back and we stopped multiple times to just stare at the water…so loud, so powerful

          • Tbug

            Simple research such as
            Heres tje important excerpt:
            Beavers are famous dam builders, and examples of their work can be seen from the roads in the park. Most dams are on small streams where the gradient is mild, and the current is relatively placid during much of the year. Colonies located on major rivers or in areas of frequent water level fluctuations, such as the Lamar River, den in holes in the riverbank. An old dam is visible at Beaver Lake between Norris and Mammoth.

            And fewer assumptions of people go a long way.

            So yes, a beaver is a beaver and will behave as a beaver.

          • Hey Kira, we can all understand why you’re thinking this way, I was trying to point out something I’ve observed and is confirmed by this statement (in your reference you posted): “and most streams in the park lack either suitable vegetation or a sufficiently low gradient to provide beavers with habitat”. I would argue much of the rocky mountains (again, IN THE MOUNTAINS) will have this consideration…steepness of a ‘no paddle’ creek, as an example. I was just trying to contribute an additional reason to not go diving into beaver ponds, but you go ahead…maybe it will be worth the cold, I would suggest a snorkel/breathing gear…hope you’re not in the park doing that, pretty sure that would be a no-no (diving in beaver ponds), maybe I’m wrong.

          • Kira, I don’t dispute there aren’t ANY possible beaver lodges/dams…not at all, they are indeed out there, but the full context of the poem/map possibly involves a canyon and maybe a creek you can’t paddle…I have not seen many beaver dams in canyons (yes, depends on what FF defines as a canyon) nor on small, steep creeks…steep being a possibility is all…yes I’ve seen beavers on gently flowing creeks/valleys, and yes those do exist in/near the mountains. Not saying you’re absolutely wrong, just that I disagree with the notion that any creek in the mountains would not experience major flooding in 1000 years (steep or not), and that IMO seems to conflict with FFs intentions that the whole box be found with its contents inside. My original argument was that evidence in upper Michigan (and was only 150 years, not 1000) was not necessarily apples-apples for the Rocky mountains, many of your counter points are well taken, so I will fall back to the danger element of diving into a submerged entrance, just doesn’t sound safe/fun to me. Obviously you have spot, not just dart boarding random beaver lodges, so good luck to you, who knows, maybe! be safe and let us know what you find.

          • Tbug

            I see you made the assumption a steep gradient canyon is the only canton it would be.

            The michigan article is just illustrating they believe these thing can last a long time. A lack of history in the RM and over trapping kinda messed long term observations up. As well as use their words, not mine for how long theu think it can last.

            Perhaps you can provide where a steep canyon is needed as fact

          • Here, hold out your hand seeker.

            Host: What about a beaver dam?

            Forrest: That’s a dam
            Host: Okay.

            Forrest: That’s NO CLUE.

            Host: There’s no dam.


            Forrest: But, I told this one person it’s not related to a dam and so I felt like that’s the only person that knows so I had to ANNOUNCE THAT AS ONE OF THE CLUES; I didn’t want to give that as a clue, but…

            (There you go, Fenn said a beaver dam IS NOT A CLUE, but said a man made dam IS A CLUE)

            Lord help this soul.

          • Kira;

            You have paid no attention to anything that anyone has said, so I am sure that you will pay no attention to me but:

            It is all how you read it: From your post:
            Host: What about a beaver dam?

            Forrest: That’s a dam
            Host: Okay.

            Forrest: That’s NO CLUE.

            Your interpretation:

            (There you go, Fenn said a beaver dam IS NOT A CLUE, but said a man made dam IS A CLUE)

            Isn’t it possible that what Fenn was saying was :

            “Telling you that a beaver dam is a dam (Just like one constructed by man) is not a clue.”… or words to that effect.

            Then “Forrest: But, I told this one person it’s not related to a dam and so I felt like that’s the only person that knows so I had to announce that as one of the clues; I didn’t want to give that as a clue, but…

            So, at least to me, Forrest is saying that wwwh is not associated with a dam (including a beaver dam) – and that that is a clue.

            MAYBE worth considering – Just another view, that you will probably reject, and that is OK – JDA

        • Lady v. Excellent ideas, botg, wwwh, nfbtftw, btw, you are on the right path. Stay safe. Until next time my friend

          • Kira, be careful!

            The blog “no” is “yours”!

            Everyone has the right to express himself with respect and education.

            Thank our friends for caring about you, instead of sending them away.

            If you can not accept suggestions, do not try to impose your ideas, otherwise you will eventually be rejected when you discover that you were wrong.

            *Advice from a newbie who already spoke nonsense.*

        • Didn’t Fenn say something about it not being under water after 2 searchers plus a supposedly 3rd searcher drowned? Be smart here Kira.

          • Kira,
            I’ve read through your posts on Beaver dams/lodges. I think beaver is part of a clue but not in the way you see it. Your solve is just as good as any other solve though.
            If you go near or into a beaver lodge be careful and aware….there is a web post of a man being bitten by a beaver and the man either died or almost died…I believe because of a loss of blood as he was bitten on the leg or thigh and a artery or vein was cut.
            Good luck in your solve and be safe.

          • Kira,
            Read JCM post:

            JCM on April 19, 2018 at 1:25 pm said:

            If you don’t like or understand what several searchers have been attempting to tell you… maybe reading what fenn says himself in an interview will open your thoughts.
            Personally, I think you’re target fixated and won’t listen to logic, reasoning and probable not even fenn…. It won’t be the first time.

          • For the record, beavers have nothing to do with my solve.

            I just had to say that…

          • Kira, I know the entrances are underwater and the inside of the lodge is very small. If you are proposing to dig from the top to get in that is a labor intensive proposition. So I don’t know how he would have cached the chest inside a beaver lodge.

        • Kira

          I think Fenn gets 5 bucks every time JDA repeats a quote.

          It’s just retirement plan.


        • Kira,
          I cannot image that Mr. Fenn would climb into a beaver dam at almost 80 years old. There are so many other places in the RM that would make more sense to hide the TC. Of course this is only my opinion. It seems that you will not be talked out of what you think is a part of your solve but for goodness sake think it through.

    • I’m 99.9% confident about my solve for the first 2/3 of the poem. The full meaning of the last third has escaped me so far, but I think I have about half of its pieces figured out. So proportionally combining those two percentages puts me at about 82.6%. I also wonder how many people think that they’re in the 500/200 ft club?

      • Very interesting JW. Keep looking. I have feeling you will certainly find something. Stay safe. Until next time my friend

  7. Not that I am aware of Afana. He has not been shy recently (past few weeks) about his confidence in his solve and his belief he is correct. Anyway good luck with your solve. I honestly believe someone will find it by mid summer.

    • morecowbell, Thank you for your replies. For the most part I’m usually quiet, but I’d like to say, I truly appreciate the people on Dals site. They are a commendable group. I wish ALL the best in life’s challenges and adventures. Lets get er done!

      • OH, and not to be distracted from my original question, who feels 99 percent sure in there solve?

        • Not me! I’ve been in the chase for over a year now, and since I’m a person who just has to find out as much as possible about every possibility before making a decision, I, too, have hundreds upon hundreds of pages of notes, research, all that. And several possible locations within the same area. And stuff like aiki 😉 , Ea, redeem sins, iron tub rafts and all kinds of weird things.

          I figure I will put them all together and narrow in on a single spot a few weeks after the chest is found. LOL

    • I’m not so sure that someone will find indulgence this summer morecowbell….
      Many searchers have expressed confidence in their solutions, but we can’t all be right…. Archival evidence would suggest that we are all, in fact, wrong…
      As for Mr Fenn’s “gut feeling”… I don’t believe that he has received a correct solve…. If anything, it might be based on his confidence in Cynthia as a searcher and (IMO) his observation that she has moved her search closer to the actual resting place of the chest…. Again JMO

      • Lurker – you may be right but someday it’s gonna be found. ff may know something we don’t.

      • Lurker,
        Interesting thought, yet, I don’t think he would bet on anybody, who has moved their search out of New Mexico.

        Clearly Clueless

    • Interesting ideas. Stay safe. Until next time my friend. Short poem although I apologize for posting in this thread.

      Fenn, love, respect and honesty.
      Finders, searchers, disclosure and freedom.
      We are strong and fight for what is right. Truth is freedom. And we are truth.

      Stay safe my friend

    • Doesn’t look like much of anything new… mostly a rehash of previous articles and comments.

      • Yep, I don’t see anything new, just pulled from previous sources.

        The article we are awaiting will be in an Art publication like Art in America.

          • When asked why they are to be considered major articles Forrest said because of who the publication is, an art publication.

            He said that in response to a question on another site.

            Some art related publication.

            So Amtrak is a a pretty major publication but the CNBC seems not new or major or art related.


    • “and weighs 40 pounds when full.” – Sounds like Indulgence has gone on a diet…

    • The article saying he’s offered up one main clue…..pulled me in read it. It never said what the “one” was, but it must be in the Rocky Mountains clue. Any thoughts on this “one main clue?”

      • Follow the link to tje business inder article, the following is given.

        “Read the clues in my poem over and over and study maps of the Rocky Mountains,” Fenn said via email. “Try to marry the two. The treasure is out there waiting for the person who can make all the lines cross in the right spot.”

        “who can make all the lines cross in the right spot.”

        • “If I die tomorrow, the knowledge of that location goes in the coffin with me.”


          Also: …”adding that there is no way of knowing whether anyone has actually gotten close. ‘It could be found soon or 1,000 years from now,’ he says.”

          (CNBC writers don’t hold on to articles for months before publishing them.)

        • Kira,

          ” the person who can make all the lines cross in the right spot”

          I believe this is one statement made by Forrest telling us that the points of interest that the clues lead you to especially the last 3-4 poem clues can cross at one point. I have talked about this before by drawing circles at a 500′ point and at 200′ points (clue solve areas).

          Ok picture a backwards question mark (?), now the period is the 500′ mark and this is a spot where a main trail goes one way and a smaller tangent trail goes another ( draw a 500′ circle). Now the bottom of question mark close by is where “No paddled up your creek” starts or ends. Then half way up that question mark is ” heavy loads” so draw a 200′ circle there. Now go to the top end of the question mark that would be “water high” (draw a 200′ circle there too). Now if you seem sure of the clue solves that leads you to this place WH those circles should cross at one point making a X on your map with those circle lines. To me that X is where your ” blaze” is and “indulgence” is near by hidden.

          Just for kicks look at the pattern of the “upper hiccup bubbles”, the lower bubble is something special of interest, in the stick man drawing of Forrest in the “Unfortunate Hiccup”. Also you can look at the bright big star pattern on the front and back cover of “Once Upon Awhile”. If you would like to see how that might look in a setting of the area you can go to my drawing in the “stick man contest”. Now you can get the idea of how lines might cross for the right spot.

          This is all just food for thought, and no I have not searched this area yet but the summer is getting close.

          Good luck, Bur

      • It seems like a rerun of everything that he has said before. I read it because of the one main clue comment too but didn’t see anything that jumped out at me.

  8. Seph on April 10, 2018 at 3:55 pm said:

    “I got to use search research at work today!, answering a question about “headwaters”:

    “Headwaters” is not very clearly defined term. For example, USGS has two definitions, the first uses only stream length, and the second bows to tradition and accepts “commonly known as” to be a criteria. A perfect example is the Mississippi River. Although by length, the farthest point from the mouth of the Mississippi River is arguably a spring in Yellowstone National Park on the Firehole River, which flows into the Madison River, which flows into the Missouri River, which flows into the Mississippi, by common acceptance, the Missouri is a tributary to the Mississippi, and the Mississippi headwaters somewhere else altogether. To further complicate things, USGS has at times published the length of the Mississippi in it’s “longest rivers” list based on that spring in Wyoming.”


    Thanx for sharing this. But any true Minnesotan knows the headwaters of the Mississippi are where it spills out of Lake Itasca, and has walked across it. (Ask me how I know. 🙂 )

  9. Has anyone ever discovered what Mr. Fenn’s “handle” was as a pilot? If you’ve ever watched the movie Top Gun, the pilots are referred to as Maverick, Goose and Jester. I cannot find this info anywhere. If anyone knows it, would they mind sharing it?

    Asking for a friend.

    • swwot, going from memory, I think it was liter81. At least that’s what I remember. Sounds like his license plate, but remember it referring to his call sign…

    • Forrest has talked about “radio handles” in the Air Force. Apparently they changed with every Sortie. So he had a new “handle” every time he flew. Maybe it was different in the Navy…but according to Forrest he did not have only one.

      Seems like it might be difficult to remember a new set of handles for all the pilots in the air every time you flew…but that’s what Forrest told me..

        • In my research, FF has stated that his call sign(s) were:
          Litter81 (when he got shot down in Laos)
          King Fish

          So, yeah, I don’t think this line of thinking leads to any solid hints that help in the chase…

          • Thanx Pyr8 and Minivan,

            While not what I was looking for exactly, the three signs do give us a bit of insight into the fighter pilot he was. Even back then, before his Art Gallery days, his fellow pilots nicknamed him for his interests as a fisherman, native Americans and being a bookworm. All of these seem intertwined into who he was, and is, and ever will be. It is my opinion that we not underestimate him and his poem.

  10. Surely these two recent articles isnt what fenn said was coming. They’re just copy past information from prior interviews.

  11. FYI-
    I guess it is the Amtrak Magazine story but yesterday we barely had 700 hits per hour..Today we are up to over 6, 000 hits per hour…
    That’s HUGE…

    Thanks to Chris for working on the site last month or the server would have choked and died at this large number of hits…

    Things are holding up well…

    • Thanks for the update Dal. We all appreciate Chris’ improvements. 350,000 searchers – Sure must be a lot of lurkers – 🙂 JDA

      • I agree JDA. Typically we see 1% of the folks who hit the blog leaving comments…
        Also FYI I have already banned a dozen new commenters for incendiary comments and trolling…a few new folks have joined the conversation respectfully…

      • Hey JDA, do you have a website or a gallery? I’d love to see some of your sculptures!

        • Sorry, I closed my website a couple of years ago. Website = sales – Sales = Work – I am RETIRED!!!

          If very interested, email me, and I will forward a few PIC’s – I no longer sell though – Thanks for asking – JDA

    • Thanks for keeping her running Dal and Chris… Look quickly up to KCMs comment that might explain it…

    • Here in Brazil it was difficult today between 9:00 am and 2:00 pm at the time of the site.

      Brazil has 4+ hours.

      After 2:00 PM he returned to normal.

      Thank you Dal.

    • In part this might be due to some articles that were published online. I’m not sure of the validity of the information, but if true many people aren’t thinking right about how to go about the solve. If true, it is similar to my belief in the ‘blaze’.

      Big picture ; )

    • Just because it’s kind of entertaining …Here is WordPress’s bar graph of our daily activity for the past few weeks.


      You can see that we were sitting at around 10,000 views per day on most of those days…pretty flat…it had recently come down to 10,000 from around 15,000 for a couple weeks before that.
      The last, very tall bar is today and at 8:42 this evening we had about 55,000 views…which was getting close to our all time record of more than 63,000 views on the day that Newsweek published a story on the chase.
      At about 10pm we still only had 58,000 views so I don’t think we will make it to a new record…but it’s interesting to watch…Maybe we should have taken bets on whether it would be a new record day…

      • Good people on this blog attract good people dal. Simple as that. No denying how special Fenns hunt is now. Stay safe. Until next time my friend

      • Interesting Dal, thanks for sharing… Kinda surprised there was no spike on the 13th…?

        • WOW – Look at the “Lurkers” – Difference of viewers vs. commenters. INTERESTING!!! JDA

      • Records are old school – CDs are where it’s at! Wait, what? Oh, not those kind of records? 🙂 And what do you mean nobody buys CDs any more?

        Missing Curious Hobbit

        • Records? Dang ya just aged yourself swwot
          A 45 is a handgun
          78 is how old I feel
          The CD is a place
          And our national Anthem should be Freebird

      • Dal, “Is the Newsweek story in their printed or digital version? thanks… Ken

      • Maybe it will break the record when the treasure is found.
        Hopefully, it is someone active in this group and they will post the solution here first.

        Clearly Clueless

  12. Hey y’all. I’m CJ, and I’m a college student living in Powell, Wyoming. I don’t know if this is the right place to put this, but here goes: I’m taking a Wyoming History course this semester. For my final project (a 15-page essay about an ‘obscure’ topic in Wyoming history), I’d like to write about the Forrest Fenn treasure and the sometimes genius, sometimes crazy hunters turning over every stone in the Rocky Mountains. If any of you have stories, theories, or tall tales about searching for the treasure in Wyoming (or have a story in general you’re itching to share), shoot me an email at cjdservers@gmail.com

      • Well said covert one. These are genuine, kind, bold people looking for Fenns treasure. This blog is full of so many honest people it actually scares me. Stay safe. Until next time my friend

  13. I was simply inspired by an internet post, to interpret this poem for myself. Knowing nothing except the writer was from New Mexico my imagination ran wild. Not until I found this site did I realize how much fun I had being completely WRONG!!! The Blaze and Brown (Henry Newton Brown) clues led me to The Blazers Mill in Lincoln County, NM. The Tularosa Creek ends at Head Springs in Peso Canyon. Not till I read the list of clues here did I realize my thoughts needed to run NORTH! Ahh the beauty of poetry… how everyone see’s the world through their own eyes… Thank you for the entertaining hour I spent enjoying a little dream. I’m a road trip junkie, and if anything this little write inspired more cross country adventures.

    • I too looked at blazers mill. The beauty, wit and love intertwined with your words are exactly what forrest intended. Stay safe. Until next time my friend

  14. “For days we were on Little Eldorado eating the handful of rough food…We had wild meat and, as we chewed on it, we had visions of other good things which gold would buy… There before us was plenary of the gold but we could not eat it. In itself it was absolutely useless.”

    Matilda Wales

    • Or
      ‘Never leave home without your gold mastercard… the kid behind the register doesn’t know how to make change.’


  15. Hello all, I have been muling this quote over:

    If I was standing where the treasure chest is, I see trees, I see mountains, I see animals, I’ll smell wonderful smells of pine needles or pinon nuts, sage brush. And I know the treasure chest is wet.

    I would have thought he would be able to see something else quite prominent as well. Something that’s all over the search area.

    • Water?

      If he is standing where the chest is he would know it was wet if he was wet. So, is he getting wet in this location?

      • IMHO – Yes, he is standing on/in wet ground – A small stream or rivulet perhaps – maybe a small pool or shallow pond – Who knows? – But yes, wet. JDA

      • Water! exactly.
        The only reference to water in that quote is wet.
        I like JDA on maybe the chest is sitting in a small pool, which perhaps freezes solid in winter. Making it unfindable until the thaw???

        • ChrisB ~ ‘Water! exactly.
          The only reference to water in that quote is wet.’

          ~ The chest is not underwater… fenn.
          ~ Fenn also state; Physics tells him the chest is wet… how can anything not be wet in the mountains even if buried 6 ‘ deep.

        • Yes, could be a small pool. Also good be steam from a hot spring or geyser. Or spray from a waterfall, right?

    • Hi Chris B,

      I’m of the view that there’s more to be seen than Forrest mentioned.


  16. Kira, is this beaver dam on a warm water stream? Also, if one had a poem and a map how would one find a beaver dam?

  17. Aaron

    I would need to know how you Define warm water vs mine inorder to amswer that open ended question.

    For your other question, is all waterfall on a map? However google earth does show the tell tale signs of beaver activity if you know what to look for.

    Some beaver dam can be several hundred feet long, imagine if you were standing on a bank just a mere 200ft away from solving the 1st two clues and walking right past a big pile of sticks.

      • Comfortable?
        Pleasant to hear and listen too.
        Is warm and cold only temperatures or can they be emotional feelings?
        The idea of who is “I” in stanza one could be a narration from fenn as a place or thing [another words; fenn is making the place come to live by having it talk [ for lack of a better term ] to the reader directly. [ many poems have done just that ]
        This leaves “I” in stanza 5 has fenn.
        Did it ever seem strange that fenn had gone someplace [ with the original intend to be his final resting place, and then leave again, later in the poem-?- and why treasures, chest, and trove, are all used and not just a single word to represent the same thing?

        • Seeker: “and why treasures, chest, and trove, are all used and not just a single word to represent the same thing?”

          Treasures-riches-chest-trove-the gold. I think he is hinting to that exactly, that different words can refer to the same thing and also could have other meanings individually. Word definitions and word associations- that is where the key lies.

          I have a suspicion that the only word in the poem that refers to the actual physical treasure is THE CHEST.

      • Aaron

        For temp I dont know as I havent been. But my wifes feet are cold while mine are warm and we’re in the same room, so I guess the temp is relative.

        I wasnt trying to put words in your mouth, just pointing out if someone had another similar poem to get to a waterfal. and had just a map and poem, would they find it? Who knows, as not all maps have waterfalls. but as you posted, some do, just as some maps do show a beaver dam and pond. In general neither item are marked on maps. See your map of YS, near canyon village no waterfall is marked, however the see detailed above map does indicate two falls.
        Again, its based on having the right map to see that level of detail.

        • FF did mention “the right map”, I think. Warm is relative but in this case, if we were talking about temperature wouldn’t it need to be warm to everyone searching?

          • To avoid the whole plurality if the NM fishing regs for use of waters lets just agree trout need cold water and bass and the like need warm. Do we care about the actual temp as splashing in a lake that is warm water to a fish is still cold to us.

            Fenn defined warm as being comfortable, however he never said it was him he was referring the comfortable being.
            Is that a stretch? Not really, he could also be saying he is comfortable with this spot of his and therefore it is warm.
            I dont believe being temp is part if the clue as there are other meaning of warm.

    • Thank you for the link, GCG. Not sure if I’m misunderstanding something on the link. Under the photo, it reads, “Forrest Fenn, who hid the treasure chest: Rex”. Is Rex the person for whom the photo is credited to?

      • pdenver,

        The very first sentence of GCG’s yahoo link it says, “An eccentric art dealer who claims to have hidden treasure worth millions of pounds in the Rocky Mountains”…….. Note the worth millions of “pounds” The author looks like from over seas. lol don’t we use dollors? I just found that odd.

        • I like the reference to ” my wildest dreams”…. perhaps Forrest is hinting to The Moody Blues, “wildest dreams”?
          If I could I would attach a link to the song which begins with “once upon a time “. Curious, isn’t it.
          IMO of course

        • The article referenced above is published by The Independent, a London tabloid, and Yahoo was just re-printing it.

          Actually it looks like a robot wrote that story by paraphrasing older stories from other sources.

        • Hello CharlieM. I did notice the mention of pounds in the article. As for “dollors,” I believe we use “dollars”. 🙂 🙂 I do know what you mean. My typing doesn’t always cooperate with my thoughts. 🙂

  18. “My gut feeling is that someone will find it this summer.”
    It’s been discussed before, but I just can’t help but think that the chest is being watched by some kind of electronic surveillance. A high end gallery owner would surely be familiar with this technology. Fenn would know that searchers have been close to the chest because he’s seen them near the site.
    “I know that the treasure is still out there. I don’t want to give out any more clues like that…”
    Also Fenn used surveillance cameras at San Lazaro: “There was a man who trespassed on the historic side of Del Charro Creek at the pueblo, and stole some artifacts. We have him on camera. He had a long walk to get in because it is 6 miles down a little dirt road through 4 locked gates.”
    I think there could even be caretakers living near the site that monitors the area and reports search activities to Mr Fenn. Or a combination of the above.

    • Randawg, it seems like it would be a good idea but not really feasible. I worked on a harbor security system as a contractor for the Navy once so have some experience with security cameras and how to get video from site to site. One would have to have a video feed through a network. To set up something like this it would need to be connected either via fiber, satellite communications, or a line of site microwave transmission. Any of these will require lots of power and electronics equipment. You would also need a video encoder at one end and decoder at the other. The site would need an a weather proof cabinet complete with air conditioning to keep the equipment cool. Solar panels might help with the power but he would need several of them along with a battery. Fiber would require a dug in run from the site.

      It would be a good idea but not quite feasible unless the chest is on private property, maybe somewhere in West Yellowstone 🙂

      • Wouldn’t it be possible to use a motion detector camera that only activates when someone is near the chest. You still have to power it though, so unlikely. How else though can he seem to be so sure of himself. Interesting.

        • Chris, motion detection would be a bit better but not a motion detection camera. You see, getting a video feed back would be tough. Even just getting anything back would be tough considering that the chest is likely not on private property. If you set up motion detection though with solar panels it would still require some method of communication. This would be either microwave line of sight, fiber, or satellite communications. Yes, you would use less power if video is not involved but still a tricky business and for it to be operational after several years without any maintenance is an entirely different animal. It’s practically impossible.

    • randawg, electronic surveillance is very possible, caretakers not likely. I’m inclined to think that Mr. Fenn has put some directions in the chest that WILL encourage or require the finder to contact his family, or attorneys, or the museum in Cody. JMO

      • Since we live in the 21st Century it’s almost a given.
        Fenn wouldn’t leave a million dollar painting alone without security so why would he leave the chest without any?

        • not a good analogy IMO – a painting you don’t WANT someone to take…the treasure he does. Also, seems the poem has proven security…8 years of it, some have been close but…well you know, seems security is taken care of. Also, who has been out to replace the batteries? you think the solar panel would stay up through 8 winters in the mountains…and not be seen/found? I think more likely instructions in the box to let him know…I understand why some view his ‘I know’ statements that he must have some physical awareness, that surely he has eyes on it (cameras what have you), but maybe the instructions are compelling enough (legalities, rewards only if you go see him, out of respect of the whole chase, etc), all IMO

      • I’ll throw this tidbit out there, as I have wondered about how it was being watched or guarded. What if there is a motion detector inside the chest that will be tripped as soon as it is moved or the lid opened? And what if that device is “wound up” and not run electronically so that no batteries or solar panels are needed? Just pondering out loud.

        • I thought of that too swwot. Tracking devices like that exist but they are electronic and the batteries would only last about 12 months in standby mode.

    • Exactly what I was thinking… today it is definitely possible to have solar powered wildlifecams, wheather resistent, and equipped with a satellite conn that can send 30- or 60second videos triggered by movement via email to your PC or mobile…

      The question is… did those kind of cams exist in 2010? I think… yes!

      • I once watched an interview with Mr Fenn where he slipped up and mentioned that he had written a check for $100k to include in the chest…
        He quickly back peddled on this statement and said that he couldn’t remember if he had put it in the chest or not…
        I believe that he did in fact include something in the chest which would require the finder to reveal him or herself to Fenn…. After all, who is going to take a pass on cashing a check worth $100k?

      • Thank you TLo. I can’t go to the 711 and back without being caught on 10 different security cams. We live in a world of constant surveillance. For people to counter that this technology requires complex microwaves, fiber-optics, satellites and “air conditioned” cabinets is very amusing.

        • I saw a picture somewhere of the chest showing coins in those plastic cases they are sometimes stored in along with details of their grade, etc. I don’t know if that was an accurate photo or not, but my theory is he has several of these coins that are very unique and valuable along with the card of a coin dealer willing to buy them at a moments notice. The finder of the chest sells the coins, the dealer notifies FF and thats his system.


        • randawg, I’m only going mention this once more to you. If you want to find out more you can do the research yourself. Those cameras on the street are fed to and from an equipment cabinet with networking equipment and power required. Video can travel on coaxial cable only so far. RG6 is the best you can use and it is limited to 1000 feet. Beyond that length the signal needs to be encoded into a digital format and then can be on a network. To put it on a wireless network we need a transmitter with an antenna. All of the equipment needs to be powered and kept cool. Even if he did all of this and put it on private property, where it would have to be, it would not last for several years without maintenance.

          I was an electronics technician in the Navy and worked on satellite communications, line of site communications, cryptographic equipment, and air traffic control radar. While working as a contractor after on a harbor security system, using high powered cameras and communications equipment, I participated in some of the R&D and purchasing of what was needed. I installed it from the ground up and maintained it. I am more than qualified to comment on this.

          • I respect others opinions even if I don’t agree with them. One last question for you Aaron.
            Do you believe there are surveillance cams at San Lazaro?

          • Aaron speaks truth here and I really don’t understand why some of you are having such a hard time comprehending that the cost and effort to set up a camera on the treasure are simply not feasible not is it even really logical. Ponder this: most camera systems are set up to catch and or prosecute thieves. Are there any thieves in this situation? How would Fenn know? He put the treasure out there for someone to find someday. Why would he go to some crazy extra expenses to run electricity, and set up maintenance, to put a camera on the thing? Y’all been watching too many movies. IF Mr Fenn has a way of knowing when someone find the chest, it’s because he put something in there that makes it compelling for the finder to contact him. Quit being silly. The fact that you’re under surveillance at every 7-11 in town really has nothing to do with this treasure hunt or what is feasible or reasonable out in the wild.

          • Meg M: thank you — you’ve exactly captured my thoughts on the whole treasure chest surveillance absurdity.

          • I agree with Aaron, Meg and Zaphod that video from the treasure site is impractical and unlikely. Fenn spent a lot of time thinking about how to set the chase up, so I would expect a simple and perhaps ingenious solution for monitoring the chest that we probably haven’t thought of. He’s mentioned not wanting to talk about one item in the chest, which might be his tell. Seeing it might come as one of those “Why didn’t I think of that” moments for the finder.

          • Meg & Zaphod: So you‘re calling me silly? Are you serious? Well maybe I am but you do not know, so please add an IMO or tell it to me in person during one of the meetups….

          • TLo: I’m not calling you silly. I just don’t think the surveillance idea has been thought through very well. It is problem-prone for the reasons previously stated, and frankly, surveillance of the chest is quite unnecessary.

      • “did those kind of cams exist in 2010?”
        Answer: No they did not and neither did a small commercially available satellite based tracking system that others speculate.

        • PLB ~ “It is distinct from a Satellite emergency position-indicating radiobeacon station. The first form of these beacons was the 121.500 MHz ELT, which was designed as an automatic locator beacon for crashed military aircraft. These beacons were first used in the 1950s by the U.S. military and were mandated for use on many …”

          Makes one think that a man shot down twice would have some knowledge of how this thing works… maybe even kept one like may guys a gals keep bayonet or other issue supplies after service. A simple pressure switch would to the job.

  19. Mr. Fenn said that the words in the poem, mean exactly what they say ,as they appear on the page. Over 300,000 failed searchs have me convinced, that a solve can not be derived from those words taken at face value. Someone a couple weeks ago suggested that the poem was a metafore, (for what I don’t know) but I’m thinking that they might be on the right track.

      • A name? Like “Luke”? Why would Luke halt? and where would he stop? How does one ‘begin it’ at a person?

        I can’t get a logic out of WWWH representing a person…

      • like Muddy Waters’ little known brother Warm? now you went and got my mojo workin’

      • McB,

        Well in away your right WWWH – it has a name, ” think of something comfortable”.
        This comfort area had a different name in the early 1900’s that fit more the comfort idea, but later on the name change to get more individuals interested in going there.
        Halt means just that.

        Good luck, Bur

          • dodo bird,
            Now if I did that you could walk right to the area, but to give you a hint it’s 1.2 miles from WWWH to water high “as a bird flies”.

          • JDA,
            Thanks. You know I try to throw out information that can help lead one to my solve or at least show them how and why I got to it. Okay why would I do that? “The answer(s) I already know”. It’s because just maybe another searcher will figure out my search area and give it a go, not that I truly want them to find “indulgence” but to have the experience of researching all that I have throughout the years that has brought me to this final point. All the areas I have searched have, in a way, brought me to this “special place”. But just understanding the clue solves put me down the right canyon so to speak.

            As always thanks for your comments and Good Luck,

        • Bur,

          I did not understand (translate) your sentence:

          Well in away your right WWWH – it has a name, ” think of something comfortable”.

          Google Translate left the sentence meaningless.

          Can you say it in other words?


    • James Perotti- yes, metafores….henny Youngman: “take my wife….please!”

      just take the chest….please!

  20. I have just started to read blogs. I have seen many people look on Hwy 89 along the Yellowstone river near Brown’s house. I’m wondering if the reference to “the Blaze” is Blaze Mountain that is north-west from Brown’s house. Just curious if this mountain/peak can be seen from Hwy 89 or after walking a short distance from the Hwy. I get that its down in the list of clues and most think this means that the individual would be within 10-15 ft. of the TC. But you never know. I was surprised when I saw that mountain was relatively so close to the location of Brown’s house. Maybe after a short hike in the woods, there is a view of it in the distance. Has anyone ever hypothesized about this mountain?

  21. From the CNBC article on 4/18/18:
    He has also affirmed that hiding the treasure in the first place was largely about encouraging families to enjoy the outdoors. “I wanted to give the kids something to do”, he said. ….”I hope parents will take their children camping and hiking in the Rocky Mountains. I hope they will fish, look for fossils, turn rotten logs over to see what’s under them, and look for my treasure.”
    He wanted it to be found. That was the whole point.

    Reading this indicates to me that a campground would be close by to the TC, a small river is nearby and hiking would be easily done by children. Not a remote, far off one but instead a campground which would be relatively safe where kids could do what FF said.
    He also made statements about kids could see things better than adults and I believe kids are more agile….something along those lines. He is saying a kid has an equal chance of finding the TC than an adult…if they are in the right area. Kids will be able to hike with their parents so the trail/area will be easily accessible to them and at least for an 80 year old man. Think about it.
    This whole endeavor by FF is that someone would find the TC. He wants that to happen.
    With this, I’m saying the more remote you are…the further away from the solve (TC) you are. My rational is…why would he hope someone finds the TC and state what he has said about kids being outside and then hide the TC far off, remote and distant. I say he didn’t hide the TC in such a spot. The TC is in a spot where the average person or kid could find it without much physical difficulty.
    The hardest part will be solving the poem and not going to some far off and difficult place in search of the TC.
    I believe the TC will be found near a campground frequented by families out for a casual camping weekend and not a campground frequented or mainly intended for the rugged outdoors person. Also I believe a river which is wide and fast instead of small and slow is not part of the solve. It has to be accessible to kids.
    Just my two cents.

    • Tarheel –

      Oh I most certainly agree. Somewhere accessible and even popular. But you just need to get off trail to find the TC. And that’s the thing. No one realizes they are standing near, they don’t take a look, they head off down the canyon past the it.


      • The treasure is wet because it is at the water level of the river or stream.

        That is, in a floodplain.

        The river runs alongside a hill.

        Blaze can only be seen if we climb the hill next to the river or stream.

        It will be difficult to see him because of the “wiles of nature.”

        The chest is south of the river, between the hill and the river.

        The river runs within a canyon.

        HL and WH join with a larger river north of Blaze.

        JMO. No TC yet!

    • You are forgetting the one thing that kicked started all this… it is the same spot he intended to be his last resting spot.

      The idea of a frequently visited camping area or a popular location that would have many folks visiting doesn’t compute. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying rule out YSP or anything like that. But establish camping areas grow and expand relatively quickly, giving the change for an unexpected find to happen. I just don’t understand why more are not imagining what their search area will look like in 100 + years.

      IMO ~ sure, fenn wants it to be found… but would rather have it discovered much farther down in time… not unlike when he found the little arrowhead 2000 years later and wonder all it wonders [ and why he place his bio in that little olive jar for later generations to know ]. fenn has been ask many times about who is closer or will someone find it while he is still alive, his intent etc etc.
      One answer stated “…the poem is doing it’s job”… imo, The ‘job’ was to get folks out and about by the excitement of the challenge, exploring, getting back to nature because we are becoming a lazy nation… and gave it a kick in the butt with the lure of gold. fenn sold this adventure with that in mind.

      While I doubt the chest is hidden in a such a secluded place that hardly anyone would go there, out-backers or not… families who started this challenge knew ahead of time it wasn’t going to be easy peasy has paying a few bucks at a popular camp ground and wander around it.

      “I’m not flippant about this. It’s not something somebody is going to be able to do on spring break or a Sunday afternoon picnic. I’m looking a hundred years down the road, maybe a thousand years down the road. People don’t understand that.”

      What is it people don’t understand???

      • I agree with the general notion that is not where the possibility of a random find will be higher than normal. If that was gonna be his resting place, then it seems logical that the chances for someone to find his corpse or bones will be close to zero. If that were to happen then most likely the authorities will get involved. The perimeter will be searched for evidence of any wrongdoing and the chest might be found by a csi detective.

        At the same time we know that people have arrived at this place, either by following some of the clues or by aberration. Some have been at striking distance. To me it is impossible that this is some place/area out in the middle of nowhere only to be found with the exact coordinates.

        Maybe not a highly frequented place like a campground where overnight stay is allowed but one where there is definitely public access day and night and year round. A not so well known hiking trail of sorts where there is something specific to see, maybe a unique feature.

      • I think,

        It is not in a particular place.

        Place not much visited.

        In the middle of the clues – TTOTC “I in the middle.”

        “Tea with Olga” has two tips for clues: to ashes and colorful teas

        Only for think.

      • Analyzing coldly:

        The story of FF dying next to the treasure would have worked if he had actually died in the 1980s.

        So he poem would be different, the circumstances of his death would be different and the place would be ideally prepared.

        The history of cancer serves as a “hook” for hunting, poetry, and the book.

        This gave emotion and personality to the history of the FF.

        How would a story have a happy ending if it did not have a beginning suffered?

        This special place may not have “anything” different from other places.

        Remember the story: “Here has a sky”?

        Only for think. IMO

      • seeker… “What is it people don’t understand???” I believe that most people don’t understand the thinking process of Mr. Fenn and some are starting to figure it out. He has said that he thinks it may be found this year. With that…. someone has indicated to him that they are understanding and giving him the appropriate words, images or circumstances that line up the way the poem is written.

        • James,
          The gut feeling comment doesn’t even phase me.
          My point is, fenn’s comment about down the road. A comment he has repeated quite a few times. We now have many ideas to think about that earlier searchers didn’t have.
          Examples of some;
          fenn followed the clues. That was a sought after idea for many years.
          When did he hide the chest? summer… at age almost 80.
          The *likelihood* that a dam is not part of any clue nor a structure. [ depending on your views of second hand info ]
          Canada – poof… and other things.

          Things that now make a lot of sense for the ones with common sense. So are we really understanding fenn, or are we given food for thought by him, without him handing us clues or true helpful info?
          So I agree, to a point, with your idea. I just think we [ as of this date ] are more informed than others at the start… My last example is; we [ today’s bloggers ] are talking more about how folks can decipher clues and not understand them or know they did, then lets say… 2010,11, 12, searchers.
          Knowing that folks can be on site with deciphered clues, walk by all the clues and the chest… should raise eyebrows to how this whole thing really unfold…

          But very rarely do I hear many solutions that has a search location/clues that will not be hassled by the hands of man in the very near future.

          IF fenn was thinking a 1000 year from now, shouldn’t we?
          I have asked this question in the past; could someone 100 + years ago with the same clue references/and original information solve the challenge [I’ll add for the idea that; fenn would have been around 100 or more years ago to write the poem at that time with the same type of stories]

          Should that answer [ that has been asked to fenn, but not answered ] be a yes… would that change anyone perspective of structures, dams, campsites, roads, vehicles, technology…. ?… I would think it would.
          So why don’t we think about all that, a few hundred years from now, when we come up with a “general solve idea”?

          The only fact we know of that would change/impact the clues [by fenn’s understanding] is the movements of the RM’s… If that doesn’t mean natural land movement, and not so much the hands of man… then I don’t know what it means.

          These [above] are only my thoughts… I don’t care if folks want to search a beaver hut, snorkel for the chest, rappel off a cliff or ride a dingy on river in the middle of winter or makeshift rafts, search a camp ground, city parks, structures, cave or mines or even search in Idaho or Utah…

          I’m just rambling and rumbling like ya’ll are. Hopefully with a bit of logic and common sense.

          • Seeker, please call me.

            563 940 6323

            Would like to share something with you privately. Thx.

          • Iowaengr

            Email Dal, and he MIGHT give you Seeker’s email address – Or, give Dal permission to email Seeker with your email address – your asking Seeker to call you doesn’t seem to be working – Just a suggestion – JDA

      • Seeker,

        I have a idea,

        The secret location of FF lies just outside the bend of a river.

        Rivers tend to open their curves.

        Erosion would reveal your bones and chest.

        Probably on the side of some non-rocky mountain.



        The secret place has to be some distance from the river.

        Distant enough to take centuries until erosion reveals their bones buried by nature.

        It can not be a river in the middle of nowhere.

        It has to be close to people passing eventually.

        The river also has to be durable enough. (+1000 years)

        For think.

        • McB ~’The river also has to be durable enough. (+1000 years)’

          I don’t know if you have heard the term[s] ‘ once in a 50 year flood or 100 year flood…
          A river at anytime, due to nature… heavy rains, fast snow-melts, etc. can tear up many hundreds of feet of river banks.
          In NY state a ‘creek’ swelled so large and fast it took down part of I-90 [ a bridge sitting a more than a 100′ above the creek ]. I arrived a short time after and watch an eighteen wheel being torn to shreds at it sat hung up on a rock face.
          I have seen the city of Nashville TN flooded 4 city block up uphill and the Titian stadium on the opposite site, from Cumberland river, due to a few days of heavy rains… That would be approx. 3/4 of a mile from the farthest city block to the stadium, on a river that is about 300/400 feet across normally in that section.

          You could be absolutely correct, but I wouldn’t want myself or a million plus in gold near a river for any length of time. Rivers collect a lot waters from many sources to be a reasonably safe place to hide anything, imo, nevertheless for many hundreds of years.

          • This idea occurred to me after I read the FF post about the Spanish horse.

            And I remembered that FF said “not at the top, but it may be near the top.”

            And looking at the Madison River I noticed that the rivers change their path, especially in the curves.

            And that most (if not all) the canyons are formed by the action of water.

            FF said he thought of everything. So he must have thought of the time factor.

            Thus nature itself would take care of revealing its bones with time.

            If the poem refers all the time to water, that would be a factor to consider.

            It would be an “extra” thought to search in the location of our solutions.

            “”Just an intuitive thought.””

        • Next to a river, especially a bend with deeper water is likely IMO. Heavy loads and water high could easily be lots of fish and deep water. Not sure if the fish will be there in 1000 years but who knows.

      • Seeker,

        Thought of that already. Many Rocky Mountain campgrounds close for many months in the winter. Especially at higher altitudes. What would stop him from going to the spot in winter. His remains would most likely decompose or be eaten by animals and not much, if any, would be there come spring or later. Many of the parks with campgrounds have only one or two personnel available during winter and large acreage to cover. It would be easy to conceal oneself in a vacant park.
        It appears that most assume that FF wanted no one to find his body, therefore, the spot couldn’t be where many people would be. He never said this. He said he wanted his body to go back to the soil. Nothing was said about concealing himself from some unsuspecting family of hikers just so they could be spared the surprise of finding a corpse
        As I said before, my wife and I have been within 500 feet of a road in a Rocky Mountain park and did not see anyone in our area for two days. Yet we were within 200′ and 500′ of the major road within the park. It is easier than expected to be that close but yet far enough away from the normal foot traffic/hikers and still be within walking distance of the campground.
        Just my two cents.

        • Tarheel Searcher,
          I’m confused…
          You said; ‘I believe the TC will be found near a campground frequented by families out for a casual camping weekend’
          Then you explain; ‘As I said before, my wife and I have been within 500 feet of a road in a Rocky Mountain park and did not see anyone in our area for two days. Yet we were within 200′ and 500′ of the major road within the park.’

          That doesn’t sound like; ‘a campground frequented’ by anyone, if no one else doesn’t show up for days, right?
          I can only assume you meant a designated campsite area that has campers frequently, and not just folks driving pass.

          • Seeker,
            We were near, not next to, a campground area on one search. We were off the road by 200′ to 500′ and did not see a soul. Another time we were also very close to the campground area and walked the perimeter and saw no one until we walked into the designated campground. Then there were many people.
            The campground is frequented during the season in which it is opened for business. However, that was during the camping season. As I said, many campgrounds in the Rockies close during late fall to middle spring months which is considered winter to many….depending on what part of the Rockies you are in and the weather conditions.
            Hope this helps with the confusion.

        • Alops – Ya’ might want to add an area code – But as I suggested to another- email Dal – Have Dal email Seeker, and then you can respond. It doesn’t look like Seeker likes to call folks – But who knows. JDA

        • Iowaengr, Alopes

          I won’t call… I would suggest not posting your number either on an open blog because, someone like me might call.

          Give em the gist and we’ll see where it leads us.

          Hang on a sec… maybe I should ask for selfies first? Does that sound creepy? I don’t want you to think I’m creepy… I am… I just don’t want you to think it.

          • Seeker-I am creepy too. That’s why I have to explain my jokes. You know the song Jenny sung by Tommy Tutone? The phone number 867-5309 is repeated in the song. A prefix was assigned to Brown University and they in turn assigned the # to a student dorm before having to disconnect it due to many phone calls.

          • Hey Seeker…can you call me too? I noticed that my phone # just happens to be encoded in the fifth stanza of Fenn’s poem. I don’t know how he figured that in there…and I’m scared that the guy with all the kids in his truck is going to call me. No joke…

          • Ha! Alopes
            LOL I never looked at the phone number. Great, now I’ll have that tune in my head all nite… thank you very little.

        • OK, how many of us know a Jenny that just despises that song? Nevertheless, thanx for the chuckle. 🙂

  22. ” Stop arm chairing that thing to death and get out in the trees where the box is, but before you go, look at the poem as if it were a map, because it is, and like any other map, it will show you where to go if you follow its directions.” Response to *Outta Here* over @ Jenny’s
    May 4, 2017

    • Sounds like good advice to me Ken. I have to wait until Memorial Day though – That is the first time that my search team can get together – DARN!!! JDA

    • “The most common mistake that I see searchers make is that they underestimate the importance of the first clue. If you don’t have that one nailed down you might as well stay home and play Canasta.f”

      “…What surprises me is that so many ignore the first clue in the poem. Without it all the searcher has is the memory of a nice vacation.”

      “What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve. ff’

      “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” f

      Ha! ken, this was fun!…

      • I like new ideas, new thoughts.

        I have much appreciation for arguments in favor and against.

        They provoke my thinking and help me process information in different ways.

        I just do not put my solution here to be tested because … what if I’m right and someone goes there to get the chest?

        Thank you searchers. : )

        • How is the visa coming along McB? Do you think you will be able to search? I’ll be in West Yellowstone for over a week in July. I think you and I may be looking in the same area. If you want me to check a spot while there let me know. I am sure we would be able to come to an amicable arrangement. – Aaron

          • Aaron,

            Nothing yet…

            I have to go to the consulate in São Paulo, and I did not have time.

            But it has until November / December …

      • Well Seeker…fun is fun. My quote was in part an answer to your Q
        “What is it people don’t understand?” I think folks are having problems understanding Fenn’s directions. The man says there are nine clues in his poem…and that the poem is a map that will show you where to go. So far, his directions have not been very clear(to us searchers).
        If searchers/folks got close from very early on…throwing their darts at their best interpretation of wwwh…how could that justify using a system other than *word* interpretation???

        • All I got is… Location Location Location.

          It might be as simple as, they thought like most if us do, did… fenn live in NM or fenn vacationed in WY and MT and they went from there.
          Kinda kills CO though, huh? But hey, Canada probably wasn’t happy when the map came out, either.

          Maybe I’ll ‘go back’ to my old solve… its’ only 11 or 12000 years back to it.

  23. The following is my opinion only:

    You are not going to find the chest through the process of elimination. Forget about comments such as 200 feet, 500 feet, public, private, Tribal, walked past, Books Forrest has read, jars, and many others. Read the poem, and go where it leads you too. Assume there are no rules – Forrest is a no rule kind of person. People are getting so confused by statements made after the poem was published.

    Again, only my opinion. Good luck to all in their search.

    • Tom B
      I agree, we can read so many things into his statements and comments.
      LOL, we can convince ourselves he is warning others and we are on the right track.

      Clearly Clueless

      • I think that most of the statements made after the poem was published are distracting, rather than helpful. Better to read the poem as a document unto itself. Even the book is not needed. The book has “subtle hints”, which can help support a poem solution. But, in my opinion, relying too much on the book can confuse more than help (in my opinion)

    • No rules?… I have heard that before.
      So, the AFT comments don’t have rules?
      Not under water, not in a mine or cave or tunnel, not in a graveyard not in any other state for country but MT,WY,NM,CO in the US, No structures, No dams… Don’t go where an 80 yr old man can’t go carrying a heavy backpack?… It doesn’t matter why fenn set these rules… but they are there nonetheless.

      We can’t “assume” there are no rules! … more fact than opinion.

      • I would only look at those statements AFTER I have a solution, not before. Exclusions are not going to help in the solving. They maybe helpful in deciding if your solve is not feasible.

    • Tom B…I can appreciate your candor and agree with your basic premise about following the directions in the poem…and that the elimination process might be fruitless to a point. Fenn has talked about “rules” and his penchant for testing them and most of the folks here are aware of that. However…there are some very important rules that even Fenn has been inclined to make clear so that folks do not go off half cocked and get into BAD situations…or even worse. The new season is upon us and with all of the latest attention there are a lot of new folks just getting started that may take your NO RULES statement to heart. SAFETY has rules.

      • There are very few “clear-cut” rules. Agree that not in a mine or tunnel is clear. But what does a statement like not near the Rio Grande mean?. Near is undefined. Be careful of excluding potential solutions based on what you assume he means.

        • Tom B,

          You are right, don’t add to the confusion of solving the poems clues with statements Forrest has made throughout the years. But if and when you think you have the correct solve some of his statements – hints help in confirming the “big picture”. Most searchers try to force fit statements made into clue solves instead of following the “straight forward” answers.

          Don’t get me wrong, understanding Forrest throughout his years can help in understanding the poem. Okay IMO.

          Good luck,

  24. I just heard of this treasure hunt. I don’t have money to embark. I wish I could. I love a mystery. What if Warm Waters reference is quite literal, a town, a street, a river or creek. Or bus stop or rest stop named Warm Waters. If he knows someone came within 200 or 500 feet of it, he must watch it somehow. .A remote camera of some sort. Which means he changes batteries or there’s electrical near. Maybe its not far from him at all. I think I’m going to hide a treasure. Won’t be money. Maybe a good joke I’ve never told.

    • Welcome to the fray, Jody. I have wondered, at times, if Indulgence is in a more “urban” area as well. But, I’ve not pursued that line of thought too long because of all the more natural concepts in the poem.

      Good luck to you!

  25. I’m curious, Mr. Fenn has said a lot of things over the years.
    Is there anybody here, who thinks their solve matches up with most of his comments?

    • That’s a really good question. The problem is that so many of the comments are open to interpretation and the context of those comments has often been lost.

      My last trip, I didn’t dig in a fire pit at my spot because I thought that location was breaking the rule about the treasure not being under a man-made object. But then over the winter I started wondering if an old snuffed-out fire is a man-made object. Forrest’s intention for saying what he did was to prevent people from destroying property and surveyor markers; I don’t know, but I don’t think he minds people digging in old fire pits.

      It makes me think that there must be a method to have more certainty about where to search so that those things we misunderstood from Forrest’s comments won’t impede our progress.

    • I *think* I can match up many of his ATF statements to my solve, many of his scrapbooks, and I *think* I understand many of the pictures he has shared . That doesn’t make it a correct solve by any means, only that I have been able to connect a statement or reference to either a specific or general area on my own map, and in my imagination. 🙂

      I have also been able to link statements to many other areas, but nothing to the extent of my solve, perhaps because I spend more time trying to connect my current solve and don’t spend as much time considering other options.

    • I had a solution in Firehole, but I dismissed it because it was too obvious.

      I left maps and went to the poem.

      I spent days reading and repeating the poem.

      Until “a-ha”.

      I went to the map with a dictionary in hand.

      I found WWWH and the rest of the poem in one place.

      Then I compared my solution with “ALL” ATFs, FAQs, FF phrases, searcher errors;

      Always trying to disqualify my solution.

      I have confidence in my solution. She is totally purist. No crazy interpretations. Direct and simple.

    • @Clearly…I will be honest here…I am aware of one location where I have been unable to find a comment(written or oral) that does not match up…Problem is, it doesn’t at all appear to match up to the clues in Forrest’s poem…Well, at least not without a level of imagination that may be beyond the abilities of most to grasp easily…

      One must realize it took a lot of imagination on Forrest’s part to make the clues create a map to a location he had discovered years in advance of his idea…He did not begin his map at a certain spot or area, then plot a course to a final X…The X he knew from the beginning idea and he had to back up to create the path using places/objects/circumstance that already existed in that area…He was determined to make it work and the poem has succeeded beyond his expectations…Such is the level of his imagination…

      It will require a similar level of imagination to understand the clues and marry them to fit the location…One may read the poem over and over and even memorize it and think those are just simple words that if taken literally will direct you to his special spot…Be sure to take lots of photos for the memories of your nice vacation…Best case scenario, by sheer chance one may come within 500ft if it without realizing the significance of the place…

      It isn’t difficult to understand, just difficult to believe it…

      So I suppose to answer your question directly, I for one would have to answer, Yes…

      • Samsmith,
        “…It isn’t difficult to understand, just difficult to believe it…”

        BINGO! I believe that most people miss much because they have chosen not to believe many things and or processes, that may seem too tedious or far-fetched and yet some of those things are key IMO.
        Faith is the key to endurance also.

        • Double bingo. If you do not have the “end game” nailed down – if you don’t know where you’re headed, you won’t find it. Or said another way, if you aim at nothing, you’re sure to hit it.

    • I can not find any cases of ATF comments that are in conflict with my solve. That is saying a lot, but I honestly can not find any comments that rebut my area. All I can do is hope I am correct – JDA

    • Clearly Clueless,

      This is such a good thought Iron Will developed a test based on this exact idea. He scoured all the stuff Forrest has said over the years then found what he thought were (I suppose the most restrictive or deductive set) the best ones.

      The test has 2 parts: and its over at Illinois Ghost site:

      I by coincidence just did it a few days ago. Its a blast. Give it a try.


      • Only one question relating to power to the ETA I said no. Not sure it is a good question. We do not know HOW Forrest would know it is found – when it is. Interesting test though – JDA

        • Glad you liked it JDA. I also agree with you in regards to Iron Wills “speculation” that there has to be some power supply close by. I told him there are too many other possibilities, for him to conclude this as a condition of a successful solution…

          Otherwise though it is a great gauntlet to put your solution through especially since its from a second perspective from your own by an experienced searcher…


          • Gang, let’s look at the “power problem” of 24/7/365 surveillance.
            1. What if Mr. Fenn is using publicly funded surveillance equipment that is free to use by anyone in the world? Think of things like eagle nest cameras and traffic cameras, etc paid for by the US government.
            2. This camera or cameras is/are situated on the only known inlets or outlets that a person has to travel in order to be in proximity of Indulgence.

            While these are possibilities, My hunch is that there is something about how Indulgence is squirreled away that when disturbed sets off a chain of events so that Mr. Fenn, or his heirs, knows that someone has found it,

            But that is my opinion, and yours may differ.

      • GCG,

        I did not understand a question

        Question B of the second part should not be:

        Public property?

        Because if the owner of private property knows that you took something from his property, he could claim theft, could not he?

          • MCB,

            A second part to this question should be:

            Does your proposed solution have the Treasures location in a place which limits legal concerns or limits legal challenges to your ownership of the Treasure once found?


          • McB, You have some very interesting interpretations, especially due to English not being your first language. I give you kudos. And that’s not a bug.

        • MCB,
          You understood the question correctly.
          Just not the intended context.

          He is saying the same thing, you are saying.

          If you solution has the Treasure on private property then it is most likely, NOT A CORRECT solution!


          • Ah, okay,

            So in this case I answered “All” with “yes”.

            I agree with JDA.

            Just this one of the electricity that was complicated.

            Because I really “NO” think being watched that way, but in my solution, it’s possible “YES”, but very difficult.


          • What is your solution used to be on BLM land (prior to 2010) but it’s now on private land?

  26. Again, my opinion only:

    Forrest wants people to get out and experience the outdoors. But the one that finds the treasure will know where it is before they go.

  27. No problem. I apologize for asking. Did not mean to offend you in any way. Hopefully no harm, no foul.


  28. The way many searchers are so very, very, very sure they have The Solution, ..they all must be heading to the same ‘X’.

    It would be fun if they all arrive at the same time.

    I wish I can be there this summer to video the multi rope tug-of-war.

    • DeerX2,
      Being one of those deluded souls, is admittedly embarrassing to me, I just can’t imagine how so many people are claiming 99% assurance. How is it that in one winter season, we have so many claiming openly to have finally done it?

      IS it all because of Forrest’s “gut feeling” remark? Are searchers that desperate for; recognition, final hope, or was there something new in all of Forrest comments which put it altogether for certain people…?

      I’m relatively new to the search and my solution was garnered from the poem, and most of it prior to me being fully engaged in the searcher community. I wouldn’t have even been BOTG or most likely an active member of these Forums if my solution didn’t have multiple levels of confirmation, that aren’t of my own devising…

      Of all the questions Iron Will ask in his test my favorite was: “Success is an Omniscient Guru.” Does your solution and ETA make use of this statement?”

      The reason I like this question is because it makes perfect sense. If someone has SUCCESSfully solved most of the clues in the poem (say up to 7 or 8 clues) then the mysteries of hints and clues and ATF’s and Forrest interviews — all of these things should make PERFECT sense. You should be in a sense be a Forrest Fenn Treasure hunt & poem Guru!

      If you are one of those searchers who believes your solution is 99% correct, how are you that GURU?


      • GCG, “That aren’t of my own devising” In my opinion , your question just demoted your self confidence. Sorry! And what is ETA besides estimated time of arrival?

        • Afana,

          I’m not exactly sure what question you are referring to but perhaps my statement; “That aren’t of my own devising.” Was unclear.

          To devise: plan or invent (a complex procedure, system, or mechanism) by careful thought.
          synonyms: conceive, think up, dream up, work out, formulate, concoct.

          So when I say not of my devising, what I’m saying is; I didn’t have any idea where the solutions in the poem where leading me other than the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe.

          I had no idea what form the solution would take or how it would lead me precisely to the treasure. All I knew was, clearly the poem had more levels than just the literal level and I started with the thought that it seemed fair to think, both the literal level and the hidden level of understanding, should work together and both be part of the final solution.

          Further Forrest was adamant about everything was in the poem so I worked from the poem alone — then to the map.

          The whole time working hard not to read anything into the poem which was actually there. To add as little of my own knowledge as possible. To never leave the poem!

          I was initially pretty successful at that and then once the poem started to open up, I thought I could predict the ending (take a short-cut) with BOTG, but unfortunately “a good solve is frequently lost in a poor execution.” (1-15-2016)

          So with renewed respect I went back to the poem in the late fall and put the same level of work (plus some) into the last few clues, building on my original work (which was self confirming).

          I worked on those until they too were revealed and again self confirming…

          Then and only then did I go and deeply look into the books and then the hints and clues where clear to me – I didn’t have to sort of figure them, they were pretty clear.

          Like the old commercial goes, “You too can do magic, once you know the secret!”


      • Hi GCG – this whole thing with many searchers talking up how they have cracked the poem and solved the clues, and now can’t wait to go get the chest happens every year at this time. There is nothing new or special about this year; yeah there is f’s gut feeling, but that is ultimately just talk that has fed people’s egos and is driving over-confidence in more than a few.

        I have seen enough over the last five years to now just smile when I hear people talking about how they have figured it all out, found confirming hints in the poem and/or the book(s) and/or scrapbooks, have hardened their general solve against all the atf comments, and how nothing they can find can disprove their solve.

        It is rinse and repeat each year. In the next few weeks searchers will begin to head out to their spots and the disillusion will begin to set in as failure after failure of all those un-disprovable general solves are disproved.

        Some searchers we will never hear from again. Others will come back in humility. Then there will be those who will have their excuses that they had one or two of the last clues misinterpreted, that they have adjusted for it, and will soon head back out to get the chest; and then they will fail again.

        And then the purchasing of metal detectors by more than a few will ensue. It has all become predictable asthe patterns recur; it is human nature in action and on display.

        Experience is the greatest of teachers, and there is a whole lot of teaching about to go down.

        But maybe, just maybe, and if f is correct, this will be the year that someone, IMO a family, who has been at this for a number of years, will finally bust through in their understanding of that last clue and with resulting perma-grin smiles, find the chest.

        I look forward to what this year has to offer up.

        • JCM,
          Thanks, that’s a useful perspective for those of us who haven’t been through the cycle often enough to recognize it.

        • JCM,

          I have gone back in time through the forums postings and have had a chance to read my predecessor’s claims and thankfully none of them “pass the muster” in my estimation.

          Eventually after reading through a particular person’s post, I could identify parts of a statement, which let me know they didn’t have a “correct solve.”

          Omniscient: all-wise
          Guru: pundit

          Take for example these two Forrest quotes which seem paradoxical:
          “It seems logical to me that a deep thinking treasure searcher could use logic to determine an important clue to the location of the treasure.”
          “Don’t let logic distract you from the poem”

          You must have the first clue nailed down.
          You won’t know you have the first clue correct until you find the treasure.

          These statements (and sets of other seemly paradoxical comments) are all reconciled by the correct solution of the poem.

          Or Forrest’s statements like; reserving the right to be wrong AND “I’m aware that some searchers will pick me apart for this answer”…AND “The blueprint is challenging so the treasure may be located by the one who can adjust.”

          And TTOTC contains a couple good hints and many out on the edges (boy is this true – one aberration in the book is just a strange coincidence).

          Or how about the Mountain Man story, there is a pretty good hint in that story, if you are thinking the right thoughts (But I can only see it in hindsight).

          And I know you are fond of Line #11: “There’ll be no paddle up your creek,” (have you read my truncated synopsis on this verse in previous post?)

          Directly from your site: •Not in a place where a 79 or 80 year old man couldn’t take it, and a place that a 3 year-old girl will need some help to get to – extremely helpful.

          The solution clearly demonstrates how both conditions are perfectly true and how this place is both accessible to an 80 year old guy and are fine for a 3 year old girl and yet she would need a bit of adult help or at least accompaniment.

          — Like Forrest says, once you get the first few clues the rest come easier…


          • Good luck GCG…
            Inevitably the time may come that someone actually deciphers the clues in the poem and retrieves Fenn’s treasure. My belief is that when that happens…the person will not be advertising it on these blogs prematurely and will probably not frequent the blogs after the fact.
            JCM has stated above fairly clearly what happens every year just before the new season kicks off. The litmus test you speak of presented by another “experienced” searcher really has no merit and is most likely only self serving at best. I mean no disrespect and truly admire your confidence…just be prepared for the possibility that your “recipe” may be flawed. The result may not be “cake” at all. Carry on…

          • Ya ken,

            My wife thinks I’m nuts but only the other nuts in the world can (will?) appreciate all my chatter in the end.

            Or I can simply act as another warning for future searchers…

            But let me leave you with yet another answer to JCM’s own website’s questions.

            “January 10, 2017: ‘It’ and the First Clue.”

            JCM – this is one of the funniest Forrest ATF replies ever:

            “In the past you have indicated that it is risky to discount any of the words in the Poem. Considering that, have you ever mentioned, even in a general sense, the words that form the nucleus of the Poem?……loco

            “Loco, I read the poem again and couldn’t find the nucleus you referred to. Can you point it out to me please? f”

            This answers your question.


          • Funny stuff GCG ! It didn’t take my involvement in this Chase for my wife to think I’m nuts. I’ve always been nuts…HA !
            Please enjoy yourself ….!

        • JCM,
          I could not agree more it is my belief that there is nothing other than the poem that will give a positive solution as to the location of Indulgence however it is entertaining to see other’s idea’s for a solution.
          Stay safe,

        • I enjoy their confidence and enthusiasm and agree with you completely JCM. $100 gift to anyone who finds the tc.

      • GOG,

        You are one of the most insightful members of the the search club.

        All i can say is i ate a humble pie after my first BOTG. A larger humble pie the second time after two weeks. Considering that my one-way drive time to my solves was 15+ hours, and 1 hotel night, those were long spirit-deflating trips back. Those were two years ago.

        And it didn’t help that i had wifey along. Haha,.. you know how those return trips went. They were painful.

        Gave up on the Chase after that, until….(well, that’s another story).

        i hope one of us find it, GOG.
        Wish every searcher here a warm but blazing summer chase.

      • GCG,

        Not sure if this is the right section for this question. You say that you have most if not all of the poem deciphered by using only the poem at first, then the book and other writings.

        I remembered not long ago you also explained a bit about the word that is key when compared them to ‘artifacts’. My question, since there have been a lot of talk about what a ‘word’ can do or be used to understand the poem, is it your assertion that there is not just (one) word that can unraveled a different understanding of the poem? Did you focus on one word specifically in or outside of the poem to help you? Or is it just a ‘collection’ of words that will become evident as we solve the clues??

        Also, what is ETA?

        • Oz10,
          Iron Will uses the ETA (Ending Treasure Area).
          Its a kind of Inductive reasoning check on your poem clue solutions and the location they place the Treasure Chest.

          As to “a word that is key” and “key” words in the poem.

          All the lines in the poem and particularly the Lines#5 through #15 have words the bare heavily on the proper interpretation of that line.

          Now, Forrest’s famous statement regarding “only a few who are in tight focus with a word that is key.” Originally I had a word which had been key for me but when I finally figured out the entire poem, it became apparent that the word I thought was key, was not the word Forrest was referring too (IMO).

          All the words are in the poem, key or otherwise, no matter what else you may hear people talking about. Listen to Forrest, he is the architect:

          “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem.”
          “No one has any secret information that will take them to the hiding place. It’s in the poem for all to see.”

          But keep this in mind, there are multiple ways to get through the clues and come to the right conclusions and then the right interpretations and understanding of the clues and how they work… So don’t get hung up trying to figure out “a key word.”

          Just my thoughts,


          • GCG, I agree with that logic. Though it is interesting that ff made that comment. He has never said to look for ONE word but he definitely found it important to mention that some were focused on it. Maybe he used that to direct attention to individual words in the poem. imo.

          • WWWH can really only be WWWH
            How can it be “W” WWH (a name)

            As can also be a place (name) related to WWH and that actually “have” WWHs.

            And so may be the other clues.

            It will depend on the researcher to dictate which more fits into their solution.


  29. Do you believe there are surveillance cams at San Lazaro?

    Sorry, I do not know enough about San Lazaro. If electricity runs close enough to it then it is possible.

  30. With respect to the question about how our solves match up to (clues and hints and) comments from F, there has been a response to those of us who are (perhaps over) confident:
    “Until someone finds the treasure they will not know for sure that they have discovered the first clue.” F
    From this point of view, no matter how closely our solves match the clues and hints, the Chase is still wide open to anyone willing to apply logic, hard work, and imagination.
    Safe searching, everyone!
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

    • “No, many people have found the first clue but they didn’t know it. Until someone finds the treasure they will not know for sure that they have discovered the first clue.”

      I read “they” as the ones who found the first clue but didnt know it. Not referring to the “someone” who finds the treasure. That someone will recognize the clues and follow them.

  31. As for the article by Eric Spitznagel, interesting name to say the least. What stood out to me was the 4th to the last paragraph. Mr. Fenn quotes “some of the most intuitive,” he told me, [the interviewer] “stay quiet”. Think about that for a few minutes. If you haven’t already, read the article on Cynthia’s blog. The question that came to mind was, how many blogs does Mr. Fenn engage in ? 2-3 that I’m aware of, not including his own.

  32. To Chris, who help’s to improve Dal’s user friendly site, I’ve noticed that there is not a reply button [will call it] to Everyone’s comment. I hope you can improve this for sake of those who subscribe.

  33. If you haven’t noticed I’m a night owl. Seriously, I can’t imagine being at this for almost 8yrs. without being totally burn’t out mentally and emotionally, especially you Seeker. Go with your Gut, what can you loose?

    • Adana,

      There is still quite a few of us who have been in this since nearly the beginning. I have had multi solve areas thinking in and out of the box. From where I live I have to have the majority of the clue solves before I ever embark to the Rocky Mountains. Armchair searching only gets you so far, BOTG is very much needed. I now believe not all clues can be solved before hand, “heavy loads” (hidden from sattilite view) is one and of course the “blaze” is the other. For the most part all the others are on a good map. I myself have not had an opportunity to go back out to the Rockies in the last year or so but still believe now in all I have found that fits the poem. The ” blaze” will be my only challenge when I do go again.

      I don’t think searchers understand why Forrest went to this special place.

      Good luck,

      P.S I’m a early bird not a late nighter.

      • Bur…I tend to agree with…” I don’t think searchers understand why Forrest went to this special place.”

        • Maybe you can amend your statement to – “I don’t think MOST searchers understand why Forrest went to this special place.” – I think that there are maybe a FEW that do.

          Just the musings of another old guy – JDA

          • JDA…If I believed that, I would. Given the circumstances surrounding the fact that the score is approximately 350K to ZERO…”I think” that what folks “think” they understand is quite different from the facts/reality.
            There is no malice involved on my part…just pointing out the obvious.

          • JDA, I agree that “MOST” would have been a good word
            to use. Folks have been saying for a long time that FF
            has been underestimated. I believe that FF has, for a
            long time, been underestimating the person that will likely
            find the TC this year. IMO.

          • JDA, Bur and ken,

            Based on my solution, I have developed or have a pretty good hunch as to why and when Forrest discovered this place.

            It could be special on its own right however I believe he discovered something in this particular place.

            My theory is just as he still remembers finding that clovis point with his father in Texas – this spot is special for what he discovered there later in his life…

            GCG but this is speculation and it is one of the things I’m most curious about and hope to learn.

    • Mentally and emotionally burn’t out….lol, that’s cute.

      The idea of going with a gut feeling will fail every single time. Followed by the excuse, I had a great time. Nothing wrong with having a great time… but if serious about the challenge.. its nothing more than an excuse.

      The sad part is, you may never have tried thi challenge without the lure of gold. Many are target fixated on finding the chest… they skip clue’s references and hope to find them on a trail, they force fit activities [ driving clue ] to make their solve work. Some still dismiss many of fenn ATF’s [ no a dam, not associated with a structure, and the list goes on ]

      You say go with your gut… the man that created all this says; “it’s not a matter of trying, it’s a matter of thinking… I mean, people have figure the first couple of clues and unfortunately walked past the treasure chest.
      I find it funny that fenn dedicate 20 years from start to finish, yet all you want is to work on a hunch…, So who here is the one really working on emotions?
      Dedication is going to be needed here, and many are only hoping to stumble upon a leprechaun’s pot of gold.

      JCM said it well… It is rinse and repeat each year. In the next few weeks searchers will begin to head out to their spots and the disillusion will begin to set in as failure after failure of all those un-disprovable general solves are disproved.

      • Seeker…I could do this until the end of time. The challenge for me is to *understand*…the treasure would be icing on the proverbial “cake”…but I just want to KNOW.
        You’ve talked about this before and I agree. If the loot was nothing more than a bag of old marbles…not many folks would still be involved.
        That was part of Fenn’s plan I think to generate maximum interest. So far his plan has worked….that said…I believe there is more to it(the plan). The cycle continues !

        • Ken;

          One has to wonder how it will all end. Will the finder leave Indulgence where it was found, and allow the “Chase” to continue? If I were wealthy, that is what I would choose to do. I admit I am one of those that would like the “fame and glory” of it being known that it was “I” who figured it all out, but “I” would be willing to forego the “Fame and Glory” if I felt that Forrest wanted the “Chase” to go on.

          I will probably never have to make these decisions, although I AM confident in my solve, but it is nice to contemplate – There I go -Dreamin’ again – JDA

          • Dreams are just that…I relish reality JDA. I admit that I would really enjoy experiencing feeling the physical weight of hefting 42lbs of treasure ! Who in their right mind wouldn’t? I also admit to having found/discovered plenty of much smaller trinkets/valuables in my lifetime in other endeavors…and so the drive for me is the actual leg work leading to the discovery. This is more than fun and the idea behind it inspires me to learn more. The “fame and glory” as you put it…has no bearing in my adventure…that part I do not subscribe to.

          • McB;

            On page 133 there is a picture of four gold nuggets, a gold frog and a gold coin – sitting on a blurry map that some say is of New Mexico. It is too blurry, and my eyes are too old to tell for sure.

            That is the only map in TTOTC. In TFTW there is the map of the Rocky Mountains – There may be others, I do not have my book here – I loaned it out. Sorry. JDA

          • Nobody would ever leave the tc behind after finding it imo. I actually think a big part of ff wants it found soon for a multitude of reasons, including getting his bracelet back.

        • Ken,
          It could take much more time…
          We heard why fenn used gold and precious jewels, longevity right? I mean, pretty much everything in the chest automatically raises in value as time goes on naturally. [ history as shown that ]
          In a thousand years from now, can you imagine the head line news [ if that even still exist ] ‘1000 year old trove discovered worth hundreds of billions and a autobiography telling us what, when, where, why and how it all was.’ [ which might not be much at that point… lol a loaf of bread made in a replicator could coast 1000 karanas [ doller, today ~ matter and antimatter isn’t cheap ]

          Would fenn want is found soon{er}? [ like many hopefuls want to think ] Well, fenn seemingly planned for it to last as long as time itself.

      • Seeker, you are quite the enigma. You state this “The idea of going with a gut feeling will fail every single time. ” mind you you could have precluded that statement with anything, including employment of psychics and aliens, and it would be true. So you are saying anything profound.

        So I assume, you have never searched before correct? So what will it take to get you to search? Can you even clarify with any kind of evidence how many clues can be solved via the armchair? It is easy to shoot down others ideas but lets turn the tables, how do YOU plan to bridge the conundrum and get your butt into the trees?

        • 9=9 ~’ It is easy to shoot down others ideas but lets turn the tables…’

          There’s your problem… you want to think all my comments are to degrade another, simply because I don’t fluffinutter my responses. I composed many of my responses with fenn’s own words, but yet, that still not good enough for some, or as you asked; evidence, line of thinking.

          Many, if not all, are only looking for WWWH. I did myself. That is, and will be { imo } the downfall and illusion of the challenge. Normally I would post the quote [ATF] that refers to my idea, again, but I’ll save time by just saying, I’m looking for the “location” of all the clues first and foremost.

          One ATF I will post;
          There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them. You over simplify the clues. There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts. f 

          So keep up the dart game, jump the gun, have fun in the sun, and hope you can hit a 10″ sq piece of land on a gut feeling. {Afana word, not mine}. Maybe you should read the whole conversation.
          I don’t need the excuse, or the lure, to go where I please… I’m attempting to actually understand how it all unfolds the way fenn intended… not launching a search on a gut full of methane. Poof!

          • Seeker,

            Too tell you the truth it seems you are relying a lot on AFT comments in order to try and confirm your way of thinking and denial that it won’t be found this year. Maybe the reason you have stalls in figuring out the poem, is because of working so hard with ATF comments to work with the poem.

            I have complete faith that the treasure will be found this year. I’m not being arrogant, boasting or anything like that when I say the following. With my solution it can’t be disproved in anyway. I guess you could say I would bet my life on my solution. From the very beginning to where the treasure is hidden can be solved using a good map. I truly believe I can go right to the hiding place when I park my car.

            I guess you can include me with all of the others that say they have a good solve. Yes it remains to be seen. I think too many are applying all of F’s ATF comments to help with finding the treasure. Some ATF comments do apply, such as elevation limits and not associated with man made structures, etc. The blaze is not what most think it is, as I have yet seen any discussions about it. This applies as well as to “no place for the meek”.

            I believe the main focus is not on the poem, which it should be. Playing with words will not help, not all words in the poem will help, this applies to stanzas 1 & 5. “Not far, but too far to walk” is being misconstrued. I believe too much time is being wasted looking for hidden meanings within the poem.

            Most all of what I am saying is what I have observed on HOD. I’m not being critical to anyone it is “Just my observation”. I guess time will tell and we will see.

            Happy hunting to all, luck is not applied but confidence is.

            All IMHO

          • One thing I am learning about you Seeker is you can be a little sensitive at times, yet you enjoy a good debate, just not loosing one? I will ignore your assumptions because they are incorrect, but if you like a good debate then tackle the issue and not skirt around it.

            Tell you what I will accept the notion that I posed my question in an antagonizing way so lets back up the truck and allow me to retry. I want you to explain to me (without the fluffnutter) what it would take to get you personally into the trees? Fair enough?

          • Seeker, rather than bating the ball back and forth, I will try an accelerate the banter. When you said “I’m looking for the “location” of all the clues” State how that is going to work with Fenn ATF statement, “Rocking chair ideas can lead one to the first few clues, but a physical presence is needed to complete the solve.” With few meaning a little as 3, that means clues ranging from 4 to 9 may have to solved in the trees so to speak. So how are you going to get your butt in the trees with an rockingchair solve supplying as little as three clues solved?

          • Seeker,

            I follow what you are doing, and it seems logical to me.
            I am utilizing that MO to try to rebuke my specific location ATF….unfortunately, it can be difficult to remove my own bias at this point. Might have been easier to start my solve that way. If I end up scraping this solve, I’ll definitely be starting my next solve using this method. Eventually all those little pins add up to something.

          • Ok 9=9,

            ~Location first and foremost, of all the clues.
            ~Clues to be know by their references, the path.
            ~All fixed within A place on a map, other than the tftw map…. that is much too large an area.

            Now, while I say clue’s references, that means deciphered to a point I know what they are, not that it is known what they are for.
            Folks have deciphered [ and I’ll go out on a limb and say ] 4 clues in order [ almost 1/2 the poem’s clues]. Yet they seem to not know.

            Astree and Geoff posted this ATF above…
            “No, many people have found the first clue but they didn’t know it. Until someone finds the treasure they will not know for sure that they have discovered the first clue.”

            Note the words “found” and “discovered.”
            The poem says: if you’ve been wise and found the blaze…. The use of “wise” and “found” produce the idea of “discover”. Finding something doesn’t preclude you of “knowing” it… even if you have the correct “reference”.

            For this to play out correctly, all the clue’s references need to be sorted out prior. That includes the thought of what is needed on site to be done… Planned and Observed.

            So lets back the truck up a bit more… What do you have Planned to Observer in your solve? That would be more important then just deciphering the “clue’s references”

            I mean, how many wwwh are there…?… or canyons or even hoBs, creeks, how many things can be considered HL n WH?….
            Without the exact location known “beforehand,” the clue’s references are useless.
            Why would we need to “know” the location of the clues first?
            LOL there’s the million doller question… certainty of the location beforehand…
            Because many/searchers [ i’d even say high double digest ] have been there and walked right by the whole poem.

            Do I have any of that completely general solve, NOPE. Will I solve this by only a general solve, Nope… to complete the task we need to be with the clues… not just stomping them.
            **You’ll never “find or found” the blaze… We need to “discover” it.** ~ You can quote me on that.

            Your inquiry is too simple a question to be answered with a single idea… there is more involved to this challenge than just a walk in the trees.

            End of Commentary

          • Seeker – “Now, while I say clue’s references, that means deciphered to a point I know what they are, not that it is known what they are for.”

            It appears to me they are for getting from point A to B 9 times in a row.

            You seem to discourage people from physically searching.

          • CharlieM ~’…relying a lot on AFT comments in order to try and confirm…”

            Not confirm, check and balance. IF my wwwh is a dam dam then I’m wrong right? If I end up in a cave that’s my stupidity. If the chest in any solve is in or about a structure… well you get the drift. However, there are 8 years worth of ATF… why not use them?

          • Seeker,
            While I agree that that there really is not simple answer to most of this poem, I support that it is a good idea to sort out the clue possibilities before hand to solve on site but your explanation raises concerns with your methodology. For example, many have solved up to 4 clues “Yet they seem to not know.” which supports your next statement, “Without the exact location known “beforehand,” the clue’s references are useless.”

            Conclusion: no one, and I mean no one, will ever have the confidence they have or will solve the poem to go boots on the ground. It will just have to be a gut feeling, intuition, fortitude, sense of adventure, no fear of failure, or living close to the correct area to get them off the rocking chair.

            No please do not take this personally, this is just my POV, but you my friend cannot get there, because there is no way of telling you have the first clue correct without the treasure let alone 4 clues. Therefore, if you have no confidence in the first clue, how can you ever get out of your rocking chair?

            Forgive me for beating this dead horse, but if you are ever to get onto first base, you got to pick up that bat and get into the batter’s box some day, otherwise you are just watching the from the stands, do you see what I am getting at?

          • CharlieM

            What are you waiting for?

            After all the treasure can be retrieved in any weather. Right?


          • Lug,

            What am I waiting for? Well I’m waiting for snow to thaw. Unless you want to supply the right equipment. The last I saw there is more snow this weekend. Besides I’m being smart and staying put, so a sane man like myself can be out of harms way.

            Was that a little over the top? Not at all.

            Have a nice one until then

      • Seeker, what I failed to express clearly is you’re an astute, intelligent person, and out of many I’d think you would have this riddle figured out by now. Many speak with confidence, but I don’t get that from you. I’m not sure where I read the comment by Mr. Fenn at one time, mentioning the finder being emotionally invested. Maybe that’s the link your missing. And FYI I never move on a hunch.

        • Well, ya got me there… how can I debate how astute and intelligent I am. You win… this time, lol

      • My serious guess is that the most desperate one on this blog is the one “really working on emotions”. This is evident based on the continuing gusher (not a mere rivulet) of hinting postings — on
        several blogs.

        I think this whole search will be ending soon — hopefully, so the most desperate person on this blog will be more inclined to relax and spend more time taking care of the family member that is so important and
        likely to benefit from the care.

        • tighterfocus,

          Who is the most desperate one on this blog? Or are you talking about yourself?

  34. I can’t seem to reply directly to the comment on my phone, but above, Bur, gives his wwwh to water high distance. It occurs to me that this kind of distance is a good way to compare same solve potential without giving anything away due to the number of potential wwwh/water high combinations.

  35. Music and The Chase

    I’ve seen many people post about music and the chase – some are just for fun or provide some satire in relation to our own experiences in this journey. Others are more serious in relation to how they feel, what motivates them, or even some playlists that keep folks upbeat on the road and in the field.

    If you’ve ever sat and just listened to the sound of silence, it can be a powerful, moving experience in the chase.

    Oh, and here is a link to some music:


    • Yes, so powerful. Some of my best work happens while listening to classical music. Did you know that music is proven to reach those with Alzheimer’s and autism? It is shown to affect healing and mental states – it was among the earliest form if communication beyond touch.

      That song happens to be among my favorites. The way “Disturbed” performs the song kinda helps me really get the message. Profound song.

      My dad got me into meditation. I never liked the sound of the meditation word given to me, so I struggled until I finally let go of the word. Then meditating was so much easier for me.

      I tend to only meditate in earnest in nature it seems. I need to get back into doing it daily for sure. Think click for me when meditating.

      Thanks for the song!

      • Twingem – moving and powerful indeed.

        It seems there are different words for meditation – if you ask a younger person they call it meditation and, if you go old school, it’s simply called prayer.

        Thanks for the well-written reply.

      • Funny how we conjure up images and attach them to words. For years the “word” Yogurt conjured up “bad” images, and I, who LOVE cheese, would never touch yogurt – and then one day I put those images aside, and now I LOVE yogurt. The mind IS a funny animal – JDA

    • Covert One,

      Thanks for the link. My sound of silence is only obtained when out and away from cities and towns. The background music of the birds is the only thing I hear out in nature. That is where I can truly relax.

      Again thanks, I’ve always like that song.

    • Oh my, Covert One!
      You are very perceptive.
      Thanks for sharing!

      Clearly Clueless

  36. Some searchers on some of the blogs don’t think that Fenns gut feeling that the T.C. will be found this Summer will happen.

    Here are my thoughts on it being found, however it’s just my opinion.

    Not everyone involved in the chase, posts on the blogs, Forrest mentioned briefly about the quiet searchers on his recent article.

    If you where 100% confident in your solve, and you know 100% that you can move with confidence from WWWH to the Blaze, how many of you guy’s would tell what your solve is?

    Forrest must receive 100s of emails a day, I don’t believe for a minute that even if someone sent Forrest a correct solve, he would respond to it.

    Why do I think this, well It’s because I believe Forrest wants to give everybody involved in the chase the same chance.


    If Forrest has a gut feeling that the T.C will be found this Summer, then something happened for him to have this gut feeling.

    I believe that it will be found soon, I think that person searches on there own as Forrest uses the word SOMEONE.

    I also think the searcher has probably had several BOTG and is possibly emailing Forrest with his/her progress.

    I don’t believe however that Forrest will be replying back, as this would give the game away.

    I think the end is ever drawing nigh, but only time will tell?

    I’m watching JDA very closely as he doesn’t give to much away about his solve, come to think of it neither do I.

    Stay safe out there guy’s and good luck to you all.

    Ronnie the Scot

    • I wondered why I had the feeling that I was being watched! 🙂 – You make me nervous when I’m in the shower though 🙂 JDA

      P.S. I do try to be careful about what I say. I share what I think I can (like you) and keep most of my cards close to my vest – 🙂 JDA

      • JDA,

        You may very well be the one to watch, however I will pass on the bit about the shower though.

        I truly believe that the person that solves this thing will have kept there solve close to there chest.

        Or in your case JDA close to your vest.


        Ronnie the Scot

      • And I am keeping on eye on you too Ronnie. It’s the “silent type” that are the most dangerous.

        A lot of words come out of my mouth, but I probably say little, and have little of value to say – 🙂 JDA

        • JDA,

          I agree with you about the silent type or the searchers that dont say to much.

          I know that you have had your fair share of comments on this blog.

          However you don’t give out to much information on your solve.

          And that could mean that your a very dangerous contender in my opinion.

          Take care and stay safe, when you start your search in 2018.

          Ronnie the Scot

          • And good luck to you my friend – Have a SAFE trip “over the pond” and TRY to STAY SAFE in the Rockies – JDAJDA

          • OOPS – did not check it over sorry for double JDA – – “Double Omega slip I guess – 🙂 JDA

    • Hi Ronnie and scot,

      I have to agree that the comment from FF about some of the most intuitive people not being on the blogs jumped out at me as well.

      For a while I have had the feeling that somebody was getting close to solving the whole thing.

      I also agree that FF would never do anything to aid any searcher. My guess is if a person was close or making progress FF would never even send a simple reply that didn’t even involve the chase.

      I doubt FF would say he has a gut feeling about this summer just to stir up excitement, there’s a lot of other ways to do that without putting himself out on such a limb.

      Congrats to the person that is close and I hope you go ahead and finish this thing.

      • “Close” only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades (as the old
        saying goes). If someone was within 500 or 200 feet, that person was
        close. IMO.

          • Clint
            One of my all time favorite Fenn quotes!

            You can see the mirth in his expression so intensely as he says it…


            I absolutely love the man,


      • Tighterfocus: LOTS of people have been within 500 feet of the chest, per Forrest’s own words.

        • How many people have been with 500 feet of the bronze
          treasure chest that FF hid in the Rocky Mountains, since the
          time that that specific treasure chest was moved to its present location (within a few inches, relative to its current location — using the poem’s blaze as a frame of reference?

      • Beefstew,

        I agree with you 100% on everything that you said.

        Take care and stay safe.

        Ronnie the Scot

    • I agree 100% Ronnie, I have tried working with other searchers as I am 100% confident, (not false confidence as most have), don’t get target fixation people! I have several botg trips to confirm what I believe. I’ve let ff know of my progress with no response directly, only on blogs. It’s too much now to be anything but a correct solve. This will be my war for me. best of luck to all this year. All the above is of course, imho. Thank you for the thrills

      • To expand on the subject of letting Forrest know of ones progress. I hope this question isn’t out of line. Who here has emailed Mr. Fenn their exact search spot ? I have and as Jake stated, Mr. Fenn never responds directly.

  37. “Some people have told me exactly where they were and I recognize that spot and I know that it’s about 200 feet.” (Q: “And why is it that they gave up before finding it?”) “No, they didn’t give up. They left the poem. The whole key, nobody is going to happen on that treasure. They’re going to have to figure out the clues and go to the poem.”

    The reference to their mistake of leaving the poem suggests to me that the poem must redirect searchers at the 200 foot mark. His off the cuff comments seem inconsistent to me with a linear path that moves closer and closer to the chest. I suppose Forrest could have been referring to searchers who were on a direct path but then inextricably veered away, but it seems more likely to me that the poem redirects searchers from 200 feet in. No way to know how may clues would be involved in this final approach. I’m personally guessing only the ninth. Forrest has suggested that 200 foot club members probably were oblivious to the proper latter-clue solutions, but his response above still suggested to me that a correct solve would have nevertheless led them on this same fortuitous path that required a redirection that they missed at the 200 foot mark.

    • These 200 foot searchers could quite possibly have been stumbling around in no particular direction, but Forrest’s conclusion that the left the poem implied that their disclosure implied more than one point in space that was being traversed as the poem intended. Lots of inference involved here, but he seemed to suggest that they were doing fine and right on track up until the 200 foot mark, when they left the poem.

      • So, Begin it wwwh – The searcher finds a suitable wwwh
        ATIITCH – Searcher finds a suitable Canyon down
        NFBTFTW – Searcher travels “A” distance
        PIBT hoB – Searcher finds a suitable hoB
        FTINPFTM – Searcher finds a suitable “Meek Place”
        TEIEDN – The searcher does NOT find a suitable “end” place
        and keeps on searching – walking right past an important “sign”. or “Clue”.
        TBNPUYC – JHL&WH – IYBWAFTB – LQDYQTC – BTSWMG – JTTCAGIP are all never found, because the searcher could not find the correct “END” place, and therefore, none of the rest of the clues. JMO – JDA

    • Whodat,

      I personally don’t think that the people that where within either 200/500 feet of the T.C studied the poem.

      I think the majority of the people probably emailed Forrest and told him were they where, not taking the poem in to consideration.

      With them telling Forrest exactly were they where, Forrest now knows that they where within 200/500 feet of the T.C

      To me if you have studied the poem and have followed it correctly, and you are now moving with confidence I don’t see how you could go to within 200/500 feet and not find it.

      However this is just my opinion.

      Take care and stay safe.

      Ronnie the Scot

      • Ronnie–

        Good to see you post again. Thought maybe you came to America to make a search.

        • Sparrow,

          I’ve been busy doing some DIY about the house.

          However still watching and listening to everything that is going on in the blogs.

          I’m looking forward to my first big adventure to the Rockies in mid June.

          I’ve been reading some of your past comments Sparrow, and you might be another one that I have to watch this Summer?

          The end is ever drawing nigh, only time will tell.

          Take care and stay safe.

          Ronnie the Scot

      • Hey Ronnie, Bur here.

        I think most searchers who have been out in the Rockies searching tell Forrest of their escapade. I have on all of my ventures out west and he has responded to most but not my final solve area.

        As far as the 500′ & 200′ foot mark searchers who have been close to the chest. Well in what I see the 500′ foot mark that many people, but only a few searchers have been this close by traveling on a main trail in the area. Out of those few searchers only maybe a couple have been at the 200′ mark. They took the off beat trail, for the heck of it, going up towards “water high” but did not understand that staying on the trail could have taken them to two or three of the poem solves and turned around went back to the main trail to other areas that fit their clue solves better. 200′ is quite a distance in the wood and with sage around the chest can be twenty feet away and you could miss it, that’s why you need to be wise and find the blaze.

        Your analysis on most of what I see you post seems in the right direction.

        Good luck,

        • Hi Bur,

          I agree with you 100% on your last comment/post. A searcher could well be within 200′ and not see the blaze – or possibly not “recognize” the blaze for some reason – thereby allowing them to pass right by the treasure chest completely unnoticed. For me, if you do not know what the blaze might be (or even know where to find said blaze while in the woods) then you should perhaps not attempt a BOTG trip until you have at least a rough idea of it. IMO.

          That’s like when I read on this site of what some people think the HoB might be. I, personally feel, that HoB has nothing to do with a person’s last name. Why? Because FF was well prepared for people – especially ones that live far away from these 4 states – to use the internet to do some serious and massive searches of people and/or places named Brown.

          If he knew in advance (which I do) that these clues/solves would be searched via the internet over and over again, then why would he say that it might take a thousand years before someone might find the chest? It makes no sense to me, honestly.

          For me, he’s not just a great writer, war hero, philanthropist, art collector, etc… he’s also a great magician and/or puzzle maker. He’s basically saying via his poem, book and blogs, “Hey, look over here” with one comment/post, but adroitly using slight-of-hand with another post and/or comment. To me, that’s why this treasure chest has been hidden for so long; and will be hidden for a while longer until someone can decipher his words and writings clearly and accurately.

          No disrespect meant to anyone from what I stated above. All in my honest opinion, of course. Best of luck to all searchers going out this year! Stay safe!


          • I agree SFTE,
            Brown doesn’t seem to be a persons name to me.
            Why have a persons name in the poem? Doesn’t make sense to me.

          • Blaze can only be seen from a high place.

            Before finding Blaze the poem tells us to “up” – TBNPUYC


          • Concur, SFTE and Chance: Forrest’s Brown is very unlikely to refer to some person, living or dead, with that last name. That would be special knowledge — and knowledge that would favor a would-be local searcher, which Forrest would want to avoid. Besides, Forrest is more subtle than that.

          • Just because you don’t know who Brown was doesn’t make it specialized.

            If I said put in south of the home of the Brave you would look in Mexico.

            Put in

          • SFTE- “Hey, look over here”.
            My thoughts as well! Here is my read on Mr.f…

            Riddle me this:
            I was driving at the time,
            not blindly mind you,
            yet unaware of my heading.

            What am I looking for?

        • Bur,
          The idea of wrong turns or wrong direction that have folks near, within, or around the 500′ mark to the 200′ mark is ok… But… to achieve that, they needed to have more than just two clues correct and on order. Until the comment of possibly 4 clues solved.. fenn repeated that no one has given him the correct order after clue two. And those comments had stood for years, right?… from at least 2012 to 2016+ and I would assume all the way back to 2010 with the same results.

          I mean, every year fenn was asked if anyone had gone beyond the first two clues correctly … the answer was always Nope. But yet many have been within that 500′ barrier. [Unless… all the clues are within a small location. leaving the idea, “they left the poem”]

          I kinda agree and disagree with your thoughts on; 200′ is quite a distance in the wood and with sage around the chest can be twenty feet away and you could miss it, that’s why you need to be wise and find the blaze.

          We are looking for a 10′ spot in that distance, that is hidden. However, doesn’t raise the questions of how folks can walk by seven other clues and not know them-?- as they repeat the poem over and over in their heads…
          I don’t think we need to worry about wrong turns, as much as, what did they all miss back at wwwh or why this location.

          Needless to say… I wish I knew what got those earlier folks to that location in the first place, because for almost 6 to 7 years searchers ended up at it, and all didn’t seem to know why.

          • Porquê naquela época “quase todos” relacionavam WWWH com represas e HoB com construções.

            Simples assim.

    • From what I can tell your quoted statement was made by @cynthia in one of her posts and she never backed up her use of the quote with a source.

      • Hmmm, not linear…. I like to think it’s not concentric.

        Boundary Line AZimuth East. Probably completely irrelevant to the discussion.

        • Now that is some bold info. I’ll subscribe. I’ve certain irrelevant ideas of similar ilk. Highest regards and best of luck to you summer.

    • Whodat,

      I concur. There’s more than meets the eye in that poem – from the guy that cries “wolf”.

    • Thanks Lady V – A very nice look into the lives of people that lived in and around Yellowstone years ago. What is it that Forrest said about geography?

      noun: geography

      the study of the physical features of the earth and its atmosphere, and of human activity as it affects and is affected by these, including the distribution of populations and resources, land use, and industries.

      To know more about the “human activity as it affects and is affected by these, including the distribution of populations and resources” Just might be important to the solve – Who knows? – Not I – JDA

  38. https://www.worldatlas.com/geography.html
    “The primary classification of geography divides the approach to the subject into the two broad categories of physical geography and human geography.”
    My thought on the use of this subject relating to a solve leans more towards “physical geography.” JMO.

    • Physical geography is where it is Debi. You got it right.
      Just imagine if all we do is imagine and never get physical on the ground.

  39. Per Dal’s comment it appears as though there are lots of new people learning about the search. I will provide some of my lessons learned here for those who might be new to the search and who do not want to spend 100% of their time on this but still would like to search and maybe try to find the treasure.

    1) Come up with some ‘assumptions’ about the major clues. For example, limit your search area to canyons in the Rockies with rivers that have ‘put ins’ for kayaks or rafting, railroad tracks/a train, a potential Home of Brown within 10 miles that will last 1000 years, and that might be ‘special’ for reason that would be important to Forrest. Using a set of assumptions will allow you to rule out a large number of potential search areas.

    2) Using your set of assumptions above, use Google Earth and Google Maps to find potential locations in the search area.

    3) Keep it simple. Look at the words in the poem that give you ‘map logic’. By ‘map logic’ I mean words like “up”, “down”, “in”, etc. Up can be North, higher in elevation, or upstream. Down can be downstream, south, or lower in elevation, and “in ” can indicate that you are going into a place or concealed within. The poem is a map and you need to follow the directions consecutively.

    4) Using your map logic and locations found using your assumptions, try to see if the areas make sense at a high level (i.e. does the location fit the map logic based on the poem).

    5) If you have found a location that fits your assumptions and map logic, then start researching the words in the poem to see if you can solve them based on your location. This will require more Google Earth searches, Google Maps searches, and general google searches.

    6) Start looking for affirmations of your location with the comments Forrest has made since the beginning of the search to see if any of your comments confirm or rule out your potential location. Forrest has been more than generous with providing hints and clues and rules since the search began and in my opinion it is vitally important that you go through these thoroughly so that you can either affirm or rule out your potential location (i.e. do not listen to those that say you only need the poem…do your homework on the subsequent comments…they are easy to find thanks to Dal and others). The books and scrapbooks would be good to read too but if you are a more casual searcher reading all of the books might not be realistic. You can find the many comments, clues, and hints Forrest has provided on Dal’s site and some other very good blogs dedicated to the search.

    7) Beware of confirmation bias. Once you have a location that you feel good about beware that confirmation bias can lead you to inferring more from comments / hints than actually exist. Many people have solutions that are “perfect” based on the poems and Forrest’s subsequent hints that are actually not correct. The poem is written in a way that allows for a large number of “perfect solves” that are not correct. Keep this in mind and know that your perfect solution might not be correct even if it is well thought out, solves 9 clues, and is affirmed by subsequent comments made by Forrest or from the books he has written.

    8) When you are at the point you want to put “Boots on the Ground (BOTG)”, be safe. If you are in any sort of danger when you get to the location, then it is wrong. It is in a safe place where an 80 year old man could have hidden it.

    9) Look at the big picture. Forrest was choosing this location and writing this poem because it was about him facing mortality, looking back at his life, and making his final statement to the world (or at least his father). Only the big picture will get you to the location of the first clue efficiently…without the big picture, you might as well just stay home and play Canasta. My first solve was “perfect” in that it solved 9 clues and had lots of affirmations from later comments….I know now my map logic was correct but I missed the first clue because I did not look at the big picture and did not have the first clue. Focus on Where Warm Waters Halt and figure out why it is important to Forrest, metaphorically speaking. If you do that you are more than half way there.

      • Thanks Buddy, all the best on your search! Not sure any of this will be helpful for a seasoned searcher and it is more aimed at those new to the search without an excessive amount of time to spend but I certainly appreciate your kind words.

    • Nice piece of work Dave – Thanks for posting.

      I agree – mostly – with what you say. My view of the “Big Picture” is slightly different. I think that the “Big Picture” includes Forrest’s life, Forrest’s “family” and its adventures, but I think that it includes the LARGE general area that includes all of the 9 clues. I think that it also includes those things that interest Forrest the most – Archeology and geography – look up this word – It is important.

      One other suggestion to new searchers. Learn how other searchers look at what are “Hints” and what are “Clues”. There appear to be two basic camps – 9 sentences = nine clues and the camp that thinks all of the clues are within stanza’s 2,3 and 4 – – – and variations on these two camps. YOU are the only one who can decide what is a hint, and what is a clue – base your judgement on common sense and logic. Oh, and there is another camp that says do not count either hints nor clues.

      All good ideas – you decide. Just the thoughts of an OLD fool – JDA

      • Thanks JDA, I surely value your opinion and you are probably right on the things you state above. I try to read your posts and really enjoy your search. I did maybe go a little too far when professing my understanding of the “big picture” and should have noted that was only my opinion. I tend to forget to state this and sometimes sound like I “know” when I really don’t. I am a part time hunter but I am getting all jazzed up due to summer being on the horizon and am thinking that I might do another search sometime this year if I get so inspired. I know you have a hunt coming up and I really hope you find it. Kind regards, Dave

        • Thanks for the kind words and well-wishes for my upcoming searches Dave. I wish you well if you do get out there this summer. And again, thanks for the nice piece of work directed to the new searchers – Have a GREAT summer – JDA

  40. I’m just curious guy’s,

    Apart from Forrest, has anyone else done a similar treasure hunt with such an expensive treasure hidden somewhere in the Rockies.

    Ronnie the Scot

  41. I just entertained Iron Wills’ ETA questionnaire and found his ATF comments challenging, as follows. (1) I think the question about being an “omniscient guru” is a stretch for most, except for maybe the Dalai Lama. (2) IW states “Forrest has a camera posted on the chest site, with a direct hard wire connection.” Show me the facts. (3) IW states ” that Forrest traveled 1 mile or less from the sedan to hide the treasure.” The distance is still not definitive. Other than that, ” interesting”

    • Well, that’s helpful. All we need to do is follow the cable to the hide…
      Maybe the poem was supposed to read; where warm wires halt.

      • Seeker, Yes, beware of rare and unusual snakes in the grass or trees. It could bite.

  42. I need a little help.
    I tried “Tarry Scant”, yet I’m not putting the right phrase in… 🙁

    What was the quote where Mr. Fenn mentioned something like a character flaw or something he wasn’t good at or….
    I’m having trouble remembering the context.
    Clearly Clueless

    • Good questions,

      I have been wondering why someone has not asked.

      “ if you were to die today would you still be the only person who knew where you hid your treasure and the chest, even though you have not told anyone where it is?”

      Just my thought.

          • That would be a good question but it still allows a bit of wiggle room. In the past FF has been completely honest about how many clues have been solved. In that sense a good question which he has answered before would be…

            “In your opinion, how many of the clues have been solved?”

          • nobody but him knows the location but reading the blogs recently quite a few searchers think they know too.

          • Hi Ronald: it’s still winter in much of the search zone, so I think Indulgence is safe from discovery for at least a few more weeks.

            What you seem to really be asking is how much time delay will there be between discovery and Forrest announcing it. Could be forever if the finder doesn’t tell Forrest. Fenn has never said he’ll be 100% certain if it’s found. Even if he left a strong enticement to come forward (e.g. something special/unusual in the chest that requires contact with Forrest) it’s still not a slam dunk.

            For now, I’d say it’s still safe to say that Forrest is the only *living* person who knows the chest’s spot. But there are probably 1000 searchers who think they know.

    • Thanks for sharing.
      It is always nice to hear from Mr. Fenn.

      Clearly Clueless

    • Hello Illinoisghost. Not sure if my original post will show up, so I’ll try again. Thank you for the link. I greatly appreciate it. Mr. Fenn didn’t know what you meant by “progress,” but what does he mean by “nean”?

      • Good catch pdenver!
        He did say he copy & pasted so it is gospel.
        Now you got me looking up that word.

        • Hello Eaglesabound. It’s possible, but for some reason, I don’t think so. The “ea” in the middle of “nean” means river or watercourse…eddy.

          Or, he just might be having fun knowing people will pay attention to what he says. 🙂

        • Another fun thought for “nean” would be to look at the first letter and thinking perhaps he means “mean”. Now look at the keyboard and see the two keys being next to each other. What are the two keys? It’s the letters “n” and “m”. Put the two together and you have “nm” or “NM”. New Mexico? Always fun to think about the possibilities.

        • Thank you for the red text information, Illinoisghost. Reminds me of “Do Not Touch” in the book, “The Thrill of the Chase.”

  43. Morecowbell.

    Yes he has said that only he knows ( in the past) where he hid it but does someone else know where to find it.

    He gets quoted a lot as saying only he knows but when has he said it recently. He says it remains where he hid it all the time, for as much as he communicates through other people but that is not the same thing.

    Just my thought.

    • RQ,


      You say:

      “Yes he has said that only he knows ( in the past) where he hid it but does someone else know where to find it.”

      What is the source of your affirmations?


      • *~ Who else knows where the treasure is buried?
        I never said it was buried. I’ve avoided that word. I hid it. I don’t mean to imply that it isn’t buried. I just didn’t want to give that as a clue. It took me two trips in my car to hide the treasure. And I can tell you an 80-year-old man is not going to make a trip into a canyon, then come up and go down again. As for who else knows, I’m the only one. My wife doesn’t know. [People.com… people celebrities]

        This just one of many time feen has stated only he know, McB

      • That’s a big word for me and I looked it up. I’m not sure it fits the context of what I said. I’m not affirming anything. I was just saying he has been quoted as saying this in the past. But there are a few different meanings to the word so I may have chosen the wrong one to respond to your question.


    • so you saying he said this in the past year, in public on video or in some sort of correspondence to you? I trust when he last said it he was telling the truth but the question I posed was about last year it was about today.

      Just my pondering

      This was entertaining to see a response.

      • Ronald;

        Two questions 1) Why would you think that Forrest would have told anyone where he hid it, in that he has kept it a secret since he hid it?
        2) Even if he had told someone, do you think that he would announce it to the world that there is now someone other than himself that knows the secret?

        Sure does not make sense to me.

        The only other option is that you believe that possible someone has found Indulgence and told Forrest, and they have agreed to keep that information quiet – This option is as ludicrous as the first two.

        Or, as morecowbell says – You just do not trust what Forrest has said in the past, and you think that he has to state the same thing on an annual basis to assuage your doubts – JMO – JDA

        • That’s a good point JDA that I didn’t think of. Maybe Ronald is suggesting that the tc has been found and forrest knows it?

          Although ff has stated he would make an announcement letting everyone know when it was found.

          • That’s why I said that – “This option is as ludicrous as the first two” – JDA

  44. Seeker,

    I’llI give my theory on the two clue solves in the beginning of the chase.

    As you know a lot of WWWH ideas was thrown out in blogs all over, not just here on hoD. There were posts of solves from many searchers put on different blogs. After I came to the belief I had finally solved most of the poem clues let’s say 8. The blaze is still a question mark, but in some of my videos and photos of my last botg I might have captured it. The bad thing is I have not been able to go back out for two years to check but that’s ok I believe the area is secure.

    Anyway back to searchers , solves and blogs. After extensive research after my solving the poem clues I found out the area of my solve that there were three searchers in the beginning of the chase that mentioned the same WWWH & canyon down as myself in their solves. A lady searcher was first, then a couple, then a guy. They all went canyon downs but only the lady searcher and the male searcher went the canyon down (the main trail) I found. I won’t say their solves but they end up 3 to 4 miles to their different final solves. They missed a tangent trail about 1.2 miles down that main trail. To me they didn’t understand nfbtftw, but definitely what ” put in below home of Brown” means. and of course missed NPUYC, heavy loads, water high, the blaze, look quickly down.
    I haven’t seen no other solves mentioning the first “two” clue solves after them but that’s not to say some more have and just told Forrest.

    Of course they didn’t have Forrest’s statement about making two trips from his car in one afternoon either, which was said after their posts. If I hadn’t put botg I would have pass up that tangent trail and not understood the meaning of “heavy loads” which is not boulders. Maybe one of these searchers made it up this tangent trail partially and told Forrest about in a private email and that’s where the 200′ comes into effect. As far as the 500′ mark that would be passing that tangent trail off the main trail.

    O X
    O *

    ________X _____________(Main trail)

    Hope this sends as a backwards ?
    Bottom X is main trail 500′ mark (meets tangent trail)
    Next X up NPUYC.
    Next X up middle Q mark heavy loads.
    X at end is water high.
    The asterisk (maybe the blaze-chest) is about
    200′ from NPUYC- HL- WH

    Well sorry if this is confusing but it all make sense to me. Not sure if it explains you questions either. All I have for tonight.

    Good luck,

      • Even if the backwards “?” didn’t work, I can see what you are saying. It confused me in a couple of places, but I confuse easily I guess.

        Thanks for the post anyway. JDA

      • Bur;

        I do have a couple of questions about your solve though, and your backwards “?”. The “X” that you call “up NPUYC” – Is that an actual spot, or is it the “No paddle up your Creek” creek itself?

        Above, you say, “If I hadn’t put botg I would have pass up that tangent trail and not understood the meaning of “heavy loads” which is not boulders. ” I have always thought that HL could mean boulders, and you seem to think otherwise.

        If you don’t mind, can you reveal what you think HL’s might be?

        I know I don’t like to reveal too much about my solve, so if you don’t want to reveal that – I will understand – Just thought I would ask though.

        You seem to have some good ideas, so just thought I would ask.

        Thanks again for your posts – I always enjoy what you have to say. – JDA

        • JDA,

          Not sure I understand your question about NPUYC – no paddle up your creek? Are you asking if you are going “up” to NPUYC from the main trail then that answer would yes. In fact after you get on that tangent trail you are constantly going up to water “high”. Thus from there the blaze would be below WH and you look quickly “down” for the chest IMO, or for at leasted what I see in my video of water high. My mistake was, on my last BOTG, I kept following the creek up between HL and WH to what I had seen on a satellite view as something that I believed was the “blaze” instead of going up to water high and looking for the blaze – (something that stands out). As I panned my video at WH and the area around it from my 1st blaze area by the creek I spotted something white that stood out. Of course I didn’t notice this until after I had gotten back home. As I zoomed in on it and especially below it it becomes a blur, but I do see something of interest below it.

          Well like most searchers I am confident in my poem solves but like has been said before, until you have the chest in your hands you only have a nice adventure.

          By the way JDA your were right in my post above. I should have said “most” searchers do not understand the reason why Forrest went to this special place. That was in my mind when I wrote it. There is one thing I do have is conformation he was there and have not seen him mention this place in books, or blogs, video’s or interviews.

          My time on blogs is limited because of work and other obligations so I don’t see all posts or post much but I do see others on the same “wave length” as myself as far as understanding comments – hints Forrest has made throughout.

          As always good luck,

          JDA, if I where to say what my heavy loads is I’m sure that would be enough for someone to research and locate my solve area. I don’t mind sharing vague hints dealing with my solve because those hints can fit a few places in the Rocky Mountains.

          • JDA,
            I will say heavy loads relates to something Forrest wrote about in TTOTC book. I’m sure that’s not much help but it’s something.


          • Thanks for the lengthy reply Bur. I appreciate it.

            Your answers to my questions were just what I asked for.

            I will reread TTOTC in hopes I can figure out what you are using as your HL – Just for the fun of it, since the snow has not yet melted.

            Have a GREAT day my friend, and I hope you can get back to your spot this summer.

            Thanks again for your perspective – JDA

  45. I think he was trying to say that if someone had recently contacted ff with a correct solution and someone else now asks ff if he is still the only one who knows where indulgence is the Forrest would have to admit that he is no longer the only person who knows the location of the treasure…
    Even if he refused to answer it is a good indication that someone else ( at least in theory) knows where to find the chest, even if they have not yet retrieved it….

        • So Ronald you think you have solved it? Is that the gist of your reference to prior ff quotes about the location of the tc? I guess time will tell. Maybe you gave ff his gut feeling but GCG thinks he was the one who did so who knows. Good luck to you. Should be a fun summer lol.

          • Nope. My question had nothing to do with a solve. Or says anything about prior quotes. You brought that up. It was just a simple question.


        • Mr. Q
          Some people around hear speak, before listening.

          Good Luck

          Clearly Clueless

          • Fenn would always say he is the only one who knows where it is until someone actually retrieves the tc imo.

            speculation while entertaining and for some egos exhilarating is pointless imho.

          • Thanks,

            I just thought it was very nice of Mr Fenn to answer someone’s questions. If the question I posed had been asked I would hope that whoever asked it would share the answer. Not that it confirms or denies anything just might be nice to know.

            And yes I know he has answered a similar question in the past as has been pointed out.


    • I agree that was probably the point Ronald was trying to get across.

      I still believe there would be wiggle room because even if someone solved all of the clues without the TC a true answer can still be that nobody else knows exactly where it is.

      My question I would ask is….”In your opinion, how many of the clues have been solved?”

    • This instills some confidence in my idea. I emailed Fenn semi recently after debating it for some time. I’ll let you all know what the correct solve was and the ‘key’ if I’m successful. His wording is peculiar, and strangely parallels how I theoretically implied my key to solve.

      Probably just wishful thinking. Lol

  46. Ronald Q, What difference would it make? Again, ONLY after the TC is retrieved will there be confirmation that someone else knew where it is or was, besides Mr. Fenn. NOT before, in any way. IMO

    • Afana,

      I’m not saying it would make any difference. Sometimes asking a question does not make things different. Like why can’t you put a snickers bar inside a Twinkie? It does not really make any difference why you can or can’t, unless you fancy eating one.

      And someone can know where it is with out finding (going to get it) it , causing there to be no anoucment that it has been found. So why not answer the question. If it makes no difference it neither helps nor hinders, both are also things Mr Fenn has said he would not do. That’s also part of the point of the question. I’m sure opinions vary but I’m sure some would like to know. Not that it would help anyone.


      • Look at it another way. I have seen this question asked for the past 5 years.

        “What state are you searching in”

        If it makes no difference why are people asking?

        You might as well ask what there favorite color jelly bean is and try to use that to determine what state others are searching in. Not that it makes any difference to me. I like the white ones.

      • Ronald;

        If it makes no difference – why ask the question? You must think that having Forrest answer the same question will benefit you in some way. Why don’t you email Jenny Kyle and have her ask Forrest again – “Does anyone, other than yourself, know where Indulgence is secreted?” Forrest will either choose to answer or not. As you say, whether he does or doesn’t answer will mean nothing either way. To answer that he is the only one – just as he has answered before will make no difference. If he chooses to not answer, it in no way implies that someone else does know, it only means that he chooses not to answer the same question again. So why bother – JMO – JDA

      • I would say that there IS a difference and that your question is an interesting one in terms of the ‘gut feeling’… perhaps if someone is close, or is ready to retrieve, F will avoid answering the question. Perhaps not, too, but changes in behavior are as noteworthy as word choice, IMO. There are plenty of hypothesis and what ifs and I wonders on this blog- this is just another one, I think. Why would F do something – like wear a hat to a party – is part of the puzzle, and wondering about whether he would answer the question now is valid. …

        and personally, given some other things going on in the other blogs, I find this question to be entertainable. … right alongside the choice of a spectrum (rainbow) of treasure hunt choices, two women, red ink, pansies… and nean- one off from what makes sense. How close is someone, really?

        Keep asking your questions – sometimes they provoke someone else’s thought processes, too… Not everyone makes sense to everyone around here… Thanks.

  47. Guy’s

    Found the following regarding the word “NEAN” that Forrest recently posted, probably doesn’t mean anything.

    I couldn’t find anything on the word NEAN apart from this Teen Titans go Nean.

    NEAN meaning part nice and part mean.

    I cannot see it being of any importance, but thought it was interesting to post anyway.

    Stay safe guy’s

    Ronnie the Scot

      • i dont understand why bears are so grouchy. its not like they lack sleep for cryin out loud.

      • astree,

        “nean” is a typo, the intended word was “mean”, some folks should stay in context as to what was being said. So……..I don’t understand why all the hoop-la about a simple typo. I think some folks are looking for anything odd or a mistype, I view it as grasping for straws to help with a solve, when it won’t help at all.

        Yes I know what I said is a little crass, its the only way I can get the point across.


        • It’s obviously “neon” disguised as a typo of “mean”. Why neon? Neon sign… The TC is near a honky tonk bar, of course. Who’s up for some “research”?

          Obligatory flutterby = butterfly nonsense. 🙂

        • CharlieM,

          Yes I tend to agree with you, I think the word nean should actually be mean.

          Take care and stay safe.

          Ronnie the Scot

        • I can’t say for sure if it was just a typo but I personally think it was. If it was on purpose I think the reasoning is much more simple, but for some reason everybody has just brushed over it.

          FF clearly knows what is meant by progress in the chase and he avoids answering that question.

          If that’s not a telling sign of somebody getting close to solving the poem or that it has been solved I don’t know what is.

  48. I created a new video “How Forrest might have pulled this off!”

    The video is based on posts I made at here Dal’s and Jenny’s back in 2016. I describe how I think Forrest handled the logistics of the chase.


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