Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Fifty Two


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621 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Fifty Two

  1. In OUAW the final chapter centers on an artist named Alex LaFountain and his sculpture, which Forrest cast in bronze and named “The Price of Freedom.” It’s a powerful chapter and being the final chapter suggests a certain significance for the Chase. What do you think that might be?

    • I liked the book cover for Once Upon Awhile.
      I do not know what is inside, I am sure quality stories and information are there.

      • CC: just read all the Scrapbooks — that’ll give you more than 50% of what’s in OUAW, though minus the graphics and Forrest’s figures.

          • I like it because I can relate to thinking about how people occupied specific places millennia ago

        • Tighterest: in my estimation, it certainly gives a big hint to the general area where the clues can be found.

    • XFiles: with your name, it’s obvious what you think the answer is! Although you should probably rename your handle XXFiles.

      • Zaphod, The only thing one can surmise about me by my handle is that I like the TV show. I wish there was more to it.

      • XFiles: for clarification, I wasn’t drawing any inferences about you from your handle. (I was a huge X-Files fan back in the day!) Rather, I was referring to page 172, which is what I thought you were hinting at. Double X’s formed by the trees.

        • Oh, OK. Yeah, I had noticed the X’s. And a few nice tidbits on p. 175. Wondering if there is even more in addition that anyone would volunteer on this chapter. I’ll throw out that “Svoboda” means “freedom,” which also has me thinking about this chapter.

          Are you searching in NM, Zap? I just wonder if you’re on the same trail as me.

        • Hi X: I don’t think it gives too much away to suggest that the significance of the X’s formed by the trees at the beginning of this final chapter is a hint that the treasure chest is within (at least) a copse of trees. After all, just over a year ago Forrest replied to Outta Here: “Well mr. Outta There, I will give you something to chomp on. Stop arm chairing that thing to death and get out in the trees where the “box” is…”

          • Hi Zap: No, it doesn’t give too much away, but I wonder if in the whole scope of the chapter there are more specific hints than “in the trees” about where to search.

          • Hi XFiles: okay, I’ll go one step further. The keyword is secreted in this chapter, in my opinion, but just as with Forrest’s poem it is not one of the words in this chapter.

          • I personally suspect that the pictures on Forrest’s Facebook page is the view from indolence’ prospective

    • The first things that came to my mind as the price of freedom are the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Angel Fire, New Mexico. And, Soldiers Chapel in Big Sky, Montana. Some of my relatives got married at that chapel.
      The Vietnam Veterans Memorial, NM, has been part of my solves in the past. I always visit there when I am in Angel Fire.

      • Hi Randawg: yep, Forrest evidently placed high significance on the Passages — three of the four made it into OUAW in Chapters 5, 29 and 39. And while on that subject, I encourage those interested in such matters to count the number of times the number 3/three and the capital letter C appear in Chapter 29: Algernon’s Relative. This is (not surprisingly) Passages *Three*, and I think it’s no fluke that a couple of those capital C’s should have been in lower case.

        • Hi Lugnutz: it’s not that the C’s are capitalized; it’s that there are so many of them. In most cases these C words *should* be capitalized because they are proper names, but there were a couple exceptions that shouldn’t have been (e.g. Coffee). I think Forrest chose to capitalize Coffee just in case people weren’t noticing the odd abundance of C’s and 3’s.

          • Zap –

            You really like to drag this out.

            Why do you think there is an abundance of Cs and 3s?


          • Lugnutz: I don’t have a good answer for you. Perhaps it’s something as simple as Forrest hinting that C=3 in some system he has devised. Or a C looks like a bit like a capital omega on its side, while a 3 looks like a lower case omega on its side. Who knows? My reason for bringing it up is that the frequency of 3’s and C’s is anomalous in this chapter, and so it seems to me that Forrest deliberately engineered this for some purpose.

          • it could be that the capital C’s and 3= CCC (civilian conservation corps- 1933-1942). If you google “CCC sculpture” you will see a striking similarity with the drawing on page 142 in TTOTC. (These sculptures/statues are all over the country). The CCC became the YCC- my secret= YCC. (a possibility). Also, to seek, to cease. This idea became the focus of one of my treks west.

  2. According to F,
    “My Thrill of the Chase book is enough to lead an average person to the treasure.”

    IMO, the (wonderful) stories in OUAW won’t help a searcher find TC.
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

    • Mr. Idaho
      I think the stories in The Thrill of the Chase are wonderful also.
      One page is especially wonderful.

      Clearly Clueless

    • Well Geoff, we are both from Idaho, but I have to disagree with you. I think that almost every chapter of OUAW has something important for the searchers. Is each story or rewritten SB a hint, or just important? The reader has to decide – I take them as hints – others (including you) will disagree, and that is OK – They ARE important to me – JDA

      • JDA, your question/post is confusing as written. Looks like you chose both categories when you’re telling others they have to decide between if each story/SB is a hint “or” just important.

        By using “just” important, if one chooses that option, then the other choice of “hints” can’t also be chosen and vice versa…but you did.

        I’d also list not important in the options for any that might believe that since you don’t really define what important to searchers means.

        Good luck to all this summer!

        • FD;

          You are probably correct – it IS confusing as written, and was probably done so on purpose.

          Anytime someone (me – or is it :I”?) uses the word “Hint”, that person exposes him/her self to the “What is a hint”/”What is a clue” disagreement. or “Hints are scattered throughout the book, but were not deliberately placed there to help the searcher.” (Paraphrased – NOT meant to be read as an exact quote)

          So, for me, the whole book is IMPORTANT, and “I” MAY choose to see them as “hints” – while others may shy away from using that word. Does it really matter? Probably not – so long as the “Hints” or “Important” messages are read and understood. JMO JDA

          P.S. one can easily become so enmeshed in analyzing the make-up of the message, that one fails to understand the content of the message – Just sayin’ Have a GREAT day FD – JDA

          • I’m glad we cleared that up for all.

            One can easily become so enmeshed in analyzing the make-up of a message, that it helps one to understand the content of the message.

            Have an awesome search trip, JDA.

    • OAUW = once upon a while. TC = treasure chest. What a fascinating age of abbreviations we live in.

      • Tighterestesfocus: if all you have is the poem, you’ll never leave home because you’ll never have enough confidence in your solution to do so.

        • I disagree with that Bold statement. There is enough Extra information online to get the job done if your Blaze is strong enough. IMo

          • id guess that all depends on what stands out to you

          • You would be wrong. You really do need the book. I guess technically you don’t, however it makes it exponentially harder.

        • You can’t disagree with the statement if you violate the precondition of the statement: if ALL you have is the poem. The poem and NOTHING more.

          • I can disagree! Violate the precondition! Really!
            You have your solve you believe it is true……just like all…Yet you speak like your words are gospel!……until chest is in hand IMO… no-one persons ideas are better than another persons..

          • Chris B: what are you blabbering about? My statement had absolutely NOTHING to do with my solution or anyone else’s. It wasn’t an opinion. It is a FACT straight from Forrest’s fingers. If *ALL* you have is the poem, and absolutely NOTHING else, you cannot solve the clues. End of story. That was all that I was saying. Jeez.

          • Zap ol’ buddy… You said , “It is a FACT straight from Forrest’s fingers. If *ALL* you have is the poem, and absolutely NOTHING else, you cannot solve the clues.”

            Please do inform where those exact words came from? Quote wise…

            Please and thank you.

          • Hi James (TZP): MW Featured Question: “If in 500 years all a person has is the poem, and no back story: they don’t know “in the rocky mountains north of santa fe” or that there are 9 clues etc. Could a person reasonably just use the words in the poem and find your treasure chest? Thank you ~Nope”

            “Thank you Nope. Nope.”

  3. According to F,
    “My Thrill of the Chase book is enough to lead an average person to the treasure.”

    Well, after 7 years and 7 months, it is readily apparent that there have been no ‘above average’ persons who have attempted to solve the Poem?? 🙂

      • I don’t think so Windy City,
        You have the ability to “reckon” in a world full of people who have forgotten how to reckon…or even how to contemplate for that matter …go figure.

    • Maybe there have been to many ‘Above Average’ people attempting to solve this poem..Forrest is a simple man,but a brilliant man in the same context. He crafted this poem so that the average Joe could have a chance..Sincerely Yours Mediocre Joe..

      • Hi Rick: let me suggest a counter-example. An average Joe or Jo is playing tennis against Roger Federer or Serena Williams. Who is going to win those matches? I think there is an unfortunate tendency to put intelligence into a different skill basket than athleticism, and yet there is no statistically supportable reason for doing so.

        • Intelligent people tend to break the facts down way too far, look for cryptic messages and such even though Forrest has said all of that is not necessary. At the same time they ignor the obvious. They just can’t help themselves. Here is a very good hint i’ll Give as an example: Would you say that the water of the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans are salty? Or would you say those waters are salty?

          • Rich –

            I agree. You look at Zap. He relies heavily on the science of probability. He used to continually assail us with numbers. And it gets there n his way. We used to say You don’t see the forest for the trees.

            Many people enjoy the various ways of analyzing the poem and there is nothing wrong with that. In the end they must come to an understanding of how the poem is written and for whom.

            The person that solves the clues will not be a critical person, but rather an intuitive person.


          • Hi Lug: you shouldn’t assume that intelligence and intuition are mutually exclusive. Einstein certainly possessed both.

        • C’mon Zap…

          Your example is horrible. Your putting physical talent and years of training into the package vs. an average Joe?
          If you said something like would the average Joe compare to Steven Hawking or Albert Einstein… Then you might have an analogy to work with… which would be “Thinking” vs. “Trying”

          The only true opportunity we all have is; the attempt to figure it all out with the information supplied. fenn obviously had the knowledge to start with. We had to start from scratch.
          The problem isn’t lack of information or intelligence on our part [ well.. for the most part, anyways ]…. Its information overload.

          Many like to call fenn a genius, brilliant, talk like he is god like… when all he has done was bring back the sense of adventure, and lured that idea with gold. Because he knew he would need to sell that adventurous feeling in all of us, to remind us we all have it.

          But until all is said and done… I have to wonder just how brilliant, ingenious is the poem-?- Because if failure after failure accounts for genius, we need to redefine the word.
          It seems to me the ones that feel this way are; the egotypicals, egotesticles, knowitalls who claim “the correct solve”… and always have an excuse for not obtaining the prize.

          You said; ‘I think there is an unfortunate tendency to put intelligence into a different skill basket than athleticism, and yet there is no statistically supportable reason for doing so.’

          If you want statistics? The blogs are full of it… Statistics, I mean.
          Tens of thousands working on guessing and hunches, physically stomping ever corner of the RM’s.

          Hmm! Apparently, I’m wrong… fenn is a genius, he has done exactly as he wanted… got our lazy butts off the techo’s and out in the sun and fresh air.

          Now If he could just stop all the morons playing/yacking on their idiot-phones while driving, even hiking… That would be a genius in my book.

          • Seeker –

            Didn’t Fenn say:

            The person who finds the treasure will be an expert in cryptography. That person will be extremely intelligent. He will spend years analyzing the words in the poem in order to develop the proper coordinates and marry those to geographic locations on a map. He will find the hundreds of hints in my atf comments. Oh, and when I said I parked my car and walked to the hidey spot twice in one afternoon I actually meant I drove 10 miles from WWH and then parked my car at the 3rd clue.

            No he didn’t


          • Ha! Lugz,
            I guess Mirror is the word that is key… seeing the opposite in everything.

          • Personally –

            IMHO, I am way better than Albert Einstein or Steven Hawking at EVERYTHING!!! Yet I am average….maybe even below average if hairline is a factor in that assertion.

            My logic – they are dead. I am not….yet…or am I?

            At any rate, someone, someday, will find ff’s treasure. I hope it happens while he is alive so that we can have some more dialectable words from him. I am certain that he is a smart man. A brave man. A curious man. An appreciative man. A devote spiritualist. Or is he none of those things? Like his poem, actions are open to interpretation until they are clearly ascribed to specific motivations that allow one to understand the person.

            I love all the different interpretations and the lines of thinking that all of us come up with. I have printed dozens of copies of the poem and it is interesting to look at all of them individually and read the notes I have written on each one. The poem and perhaps TTOTC and a good map are all one needs to solve the riddle. Or is it?

        • Finding the chest will not only take intelligence but the right kind of intelligence. Some people are book smart, some are intuitive, ect. The person has to be able to think like FF or have some thought processes that allowed him to create the poem based on the location of the treasure. This will not be some random, average thinker.

          • Aaron: you said it much better than I did. A polymath (e.g. Renaissance man/woman) is an example of the type of person you’ve described who should have an advantage.

          • Completely agree Aaron. There are many types of intelligence. Having the right type will definitely give someone an advantage.

    • loco- no, after 7 years and 7 months no above average persons can discern treasure from chest. except me.

      i think.

  4. I’m getting emails about something wrong with the FF Coin random drawing – seems that folks are being told that $15 will buy them a sequence number up to 300. The person who told me says that Cowlazars now changed the rules or something like that and the $15 goes toward the drawing but up to a sequence number of 600.

    This person mentioned the video at approximately 9:25 has Cowlazars stating there will be a second drawing after the first 300. Give the video a look.

    I guess folks who were told they were purchasing a $15 random drawing chance at the first 300 are SOL.

    • Now, I’m hearing that Cowlazars is going to upload a video with the new quantity now.

      I guess those folks who paid a premium ($15) to get a sequence number within the first 300 are out of luck.

  5. Geze Yogi….I don’t think the ranger is going to like all those extra average bears traipsing all over Jellystone.

    Booboo, if I told you once I have told you a million times….we are smarter than the average bear! Even though most above average bears think the treasure is in New Mexico, think of all those extra pic-a-nic baskets we can raid.

    Booboo….after they give Forrest an award for increasing tourism in Jellystone what do you say we retire to the Land of Enchantment with the rest of the above average bears.?
    We could find us a nice den on the Chama and have all kinds of sandwichs, but I am not sure what we are going to do with all those flashlights.

    Gee Yogi…I have a great idea…how about we manufacture Forrest Fenn lunch pals to carry sandwichs in?
    Booboo….you are a genius ….we can have the poem on one side along with the map and on the other side we can have a picture of Forrest in his beaver hat.
    Gee Yogi…that sounds out-of-sight…and how bout we make the lunch pal in the size and shape of the treasure chest. We should be sure to make over 600 and not show any favoritism to earlybirds keeping the chase on equal footing to all.
    Booboo….we really are “SMARTER THAN THE AVERAGE BEAR”!!!!!

    • Booboo. Lol. That was pretty funny. Not bad. True too. Much smarter. Much more. I know you already heard this. And I know you love the rise. But gosh gee jelly belly smelly. Someday you will find that gooby dooby yogi joogey. Sinchy touchy shooby jelly. Slabby Ramsey Stop by the way chiisey. Oopsy dooby double I Tuesday. Let me guess. Nobody understood that dousey. Lol. I win

  6. “Average”… I suppose I could be average, idk… I certainly don’t think of myself all too highly though my friends think I’m above average.

    Regardless, I’m driving from NY to Colorado next month to put my mediocre BOTG into the search…

    My buddy laughed and said “I wouldn’t be surprised one bit if you walked straight to it and was like ‘what? this wasn’t even a challenge!”

    I tell him and everyone else that I’m coming home with nothing but an experience of the Rockies….

    …And yet, I can hardly wait anyways 🙂

  7. Hey all,
    Was curious about thoughts on ruling out Colorado as it is known as a bait fishing area and that Fenn is an avid fly fisher.

    • Chris B, I wouldn’t rule Colorado out based on that. I see plenty of fly fisherman in the state.

    • yeah…what? are you kidding me? I’m pretty sure on a ‘fisherman per mile’ basis, CO beats WY and MT hands down…it sure does seem that way at least…few places with moving water that I haven’t seen a geared up fly person pounding the water. Also, you should read the fishing regs for each state, you will learn that there are many rivers (especially gold medal water) that are artificial flies/lures only.

      And since this is odds n ends…I just went fishing in WY over the weekend, just a crowded, boring state park lake…no treasure hunting per se (but much discussion), my dad and I, using lures/spin casting (our river gear), we both caught double digits over the two days, while our lawn chair sitting, bobber watching, worm/salmon egg brethren seemed to not catch much. Not boasting that we are that good, just that nearly all the easy to get to areas seem to get pounded by the same type of gear, so when you show up with something different the fish can be very eager…so usually the second day we see much smaller numbers on the same water. I love going to a river and seeing 20 fly fishers on the water, it usually means my lures haven’t been thrown in the water recently. Have fun out there, enjoy the seasons!

  8. Some blokes have a terminology for the difference between bait fishing and fly fishing waters. Bait fishing waters are considered warm. Fly fishing waters are called cold. Rumor has it that the largest river run Brown ever caught in New Mexico has a home at Coopers Ranch, El Vado. Northern New Mexico, not far, but to far to walk from Santa Fe sure is a very special place for trout fishermen.

  9. Emmett1010, I think you are replying to McB. It was his quote in my comment about out of the ordinary and special. In any case it may be a Portuguese translation for anything that stands out.

    My only comment is about the blaze possibly being the last clue since F eluded to the chest being easy to find once we found the blaze

  10. emmett1010, I disagree with your comment about having more than one spot, that you have none. How is having one spot a proven method to find the chest? There is no proven method to find the chest.

    I have two weeks of vacation to use to search. I have found a perfect spot. Now that I have that spot I have alternates or back up locations to check as well. These spots include different ways of solving the poem.

    When you get your one solve and go out and find the chest I will stand corrected. For now I’ll just say that finding the chest is nothing like finding a quarterback.

  11. Slurbs, I agree with your statement that the 200 footers did not see the blaze.

    • Researchers more attentive to the poem passed 200 feet from the treasury (and I imagine who it was, due to the way FF ​​referred to them).

      Researchers “less” attentive to the poem and ordinary people have passed or * IMO stopped(note well: “stopped”) less than 500 feet from the treasure.

      IMO there is a road and less than 300 feet by side has a “trail” (IMO not exactly a trail, but something that can be traversed, like a dry stream perhaps) and at this road has a place to stop / park (but not campground).

      I believe this site is the “exact” description of stanza 3 and that if you are wise “at this very point” you will find (you will not see) “find” Blaze with BOTG.


      In this detail BOTG for Blaze, escaped the FF that technology would advance and nature events would change the landscape and the satellite view. What was once covered or very deep, today can be seen by GE.


      When you find Blaze you should look just below (south). What will you see?

      The last two letters of TTOTC and TFTW. The same as you see while looking down the blaze of the horse. Two horseshoes.

      Until then your search for the place will cease, but still lackthe chest.

      From now on are instructions on what to do on the spot:

      But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
      Just take the chest and go in peace.

      But for this you will have to:

      If you are brave and in the wood

      This is just what my mind has achieved so far.

      Good luck for all of us.

      All just my opinion of a dreamer.

      • McB-

        Good thoughts McB, I hope we are searching different areas! 🙂 Happy Hunting.

    • I would say the 200 footers did not recognize the importance of some of the things they saw around them.

      • Things around them or things on a map? I don’t know which for sure myself but I would lean toward a physical on site thing or things.

        • IMO was an error of interpretation that still occurs today with many researchers.

          That is why I am of the following opinion:

          1 – Embrace ALL the opinions that you find ahead, because you will not know what you can find in BOTG.

          2 – Study all the meanings of all words. You may be surprised at how a sentence can be read.

          3 – Question everything FF said to date. It will make you think like him.

          4 – Do not hurry. Haste and recklessness go hand in hand.

          Just ideas of those who have no idea nenhuma … yet.

          • I agree that an error in the way the poem is being interpreted is leading to the problem. They are not seeing what they are looking for and go past it.

  12. Hello McB. To respond to your question you asked about the “TFTW” book in the previous page, the answer would be all four states are mentioned in the book. As for whether the stories are older or newer in relation to his life’s experience, it depends upon the story read. There’s some when he was a youth, and others as an adult.

  13. Quick poll – if you’ve got a spot and there’s an easy “here’s why someone could have been 200 feet away”, but you don’t have an explanation for “here’s why other people could have been 500 feet away”, are you eliminating that spot?

    I used to make a big issue (in my head) out of reconciling the 200 foot/500 foot comments, but I recently adjusted my thinking a bit and I’m no longer concerned so long as I have an explanation for people within 200 feet. Just curious how other people see it…

    • I have one spot I like for a lot of reasons, but I do not see how someone could come 200 feet from it and pass it by. 500 maybe but not 200. There is no reason for them to be that close other than to go to this spot. Because of this I am not totally ruling it out but I have other locations I will check first and if I have time to get to this one I will.

    • FMC;

      I actually reverse your questions. I’ve got a spot and there’s an easy “here’s why someone could have been 500 feet away”,, and I have an explanation for “here’s why other people could have been 200 feet away”.

      Let’s assume (Hypothetical) that you are on a main trail, at a spot that is easily identified – A park bench – or some such. Now assume that you are 500′ from the TC. Near the park bench, there is a much smaller trail that is not often used. If you go up this trail, you will come within 200′ of the TC.

      Many people have sat on, or passed by the park bench, but few wandered up the small trail, so few were ever within 200′ of the TC.

      Just how I picture it in my mind – JDA

      • JDA, in your hypothetical, are you referring either or both of your trails as human trails?

        • Hypothetically – The main trail that has the park bench on it could be considered a human trail. The smaller one less likely – JDA

          • FD;

            Even if the smaller trail is a “human trail” I think that it would still work. Forrest said, “There isn’t a human trail in very close proximaty (sic) to where I hid the treasure”. To me, “…very close proximaty” could be as close as maybe 25′ – but that is just me – JDA

          • KK – No I do not, that was just used as an example so I would not have to give something away – JDA

          • WhatIF there are not trails?

            Sure, there should be a reasonable way to get to the first clue{s}… But a map is a map, right?
            The poem is told to be a map.. So why would the poem’s clue references, follow a trail of any kind?
            Kinda defeats the purpose of designing the poem to be a “blueprint” / “Map”

      • I agree with you 100% on this JDA. I have long thought that something brings someone to within 500′ of the TC, and some other interesting thing brings those within 500′ to within 200′ of the TC

        Also, ponder this… What is a “human trail” Would a road or a drive be a “human trail” or would a human trail only be a foot trail? Also, a lot of times (those who have been in the wilderness know this) people may see an animal trail, and use it, but that does not make it a human trail…

        • The other thing is…. What if, people have been within 500′ of it because they were wade fishing in the a river, and the TC is within 500′ of the TC. Someone mentioned that they got out of the river to FF at a certain location to look at some interesting feature, and that brought them to within 200′ of the TC. This could explain why there isn’t a human trail in close proximity (just because a human walks somewhere – ie in the river, doesn’t make it a trail).

          Could be an area where FF fished as a kid, or maybe near where his dad would park the trailer in the woods, and he could get there from the main road without any difficulty. There are a lot of “old roads” and jeep trails than are abandoned now, but could be discerned from old maps.

          • Wow I butchered that… “fishing in a river” and … “the TC is within 500′ of the river” haha

        • Just because one person uses an animal trail one time, in my opinion, I do not think that the animal trail must now be considered a human trail. JMO – JDA

          • That’s what I’m saying. Even if people may use an animal trail quite a bit, it doesn’t make it a human trail. You see this in areas where an animal might go the same way to water- and fishermen may use the same trail to get to the water

          • Ah, but how would one classify a fisherman’s trail? We have these all over the Sierra Nevada, and they were mostly stomped out or bushwhacked by people (but probably also utilized by animals once established).

          • I would think that any trail used frequently by humans, for whatever purpose, would be considered a “Human trail”. JMO – JDA

    • Great question/poll FMC.

      I do still try to reconcile both. For a searchers location to be the correct location, I do think that the 200 foot and the 500 foot remarks by F have to make some sort of sense. For me there must be some sort of measurable or at least logical kind of explanation. But that’s just the way I’m wired to think. I hope that doesn’t mess me up in the long run! (IMO).

      Good luck everybody!


      • Even though there are several plausible explanations to account for the given distances, figuring out why is not my immediate concern though the answer could prove useful later (BOTG phase).

        Once folks understand what JHLAWH is referring to, then IMO you’ll be better able to properly interpret this hint.


        • Hi Pinatubocharlie,

          You said: “Once folks understand what JHLAWH is referring to, then IMO you’ll be better able to properly interpret this hint.”

          I do agree with this. But I also think some of these hints might make even more sense after solving and/or understanding and/or in conjunction with some of the later clues, beyond JHLAWH. (IMO).

          Just a thought. (IMO).


        • PC;

          One train of thought is that the 500′ and 200′ measurements just might be hints that will assist you in finding later clues.

          Let’s suppose, (hypothetically) that you have found your “End” spot … “The end is ever drawing nigh.” The next thing to find would be “There’ll be no paddle up your creek.” If you were to draw a circle with a 1000′ diameter (500′ radius) with the “END” place as it’s center – Any direction you look, within this circle, you COULD be within 500′ of your creek. You would know that the “No paddle creek” must lie within this circle. If you found a BIG creek 1500′ away, but a small little creek 400′ away, you would know which one was the correct one. The same principle COULD apply to the 200′ measurement. It works for me, it may not work for you – Just a possibility – JDA

          • Appreciate the reply JDA. As I said (inferred) before, I’m just not convinced the distances are critical to understanding the hint, if any, is included therein.

            My big hang up being, where they all actively searching? I’m a searcher and could to Yellowstone tomorrow and snap a few pictures during our family vacation but I wasn’t in search mode which is easy for me to say because I’m not in the Yellowstone camp.

            I send my pics to Forrest and he says to himself, boy, did this guy know he was only 500’ from the chest?

            Good luck to you and your team on Memorial Day weekend. Sounds like fun. I surely won’t be having any. My wife and I are making an 800+ trip home up I-5 from central Cali, running from the ever building heat.


          • I get your point PC – One could take a PIC of anything, anywhere, and it happens to be 500′ from the TC BUT IF you were in search mode, and clues led you to a particular spot, from THAT spot distance measurements might help – who knows.

            Thanks for the well-wishes. We WILL have fun!!!

            Good luck on your trip up I-5 and TRY and STAY SAFE!!! JDA

    • 200 ft. is within 500 ft. So that’s all you would need to consider. I believe his 500 ft. statement was always “within”, so it’s not necessarily relevant. For all you know, it was 200 ft. all along and he just felt comfortable later giving a smaller distance, maybe after he saw that it wouldn’t matter or something.

      • Yeah, this is the conclusion I came to and it seems to be supported by the comments I could find at tarryscant site. I wanted to ask in case there was something I was missing. Cheers.

        • @FMC – hope my site is beneficial for your search. Please email me links to any quotes/interviews/podcasts that I haven’t found yet, and I will transcribe / publish for the community.

          @JDA – nice job on your transcription, and I completely agree – stay out of mines and caves.

    • Hi FMC: in my opinion, Forrest’s clear distinction between the 200-footers and the 500-footers is a significant clue, and a factor for which a good solution should have an answer.

    • I would certainly eliminate a spot more than 500 ft. from a trail or a road or a fishing hole or a point of interest. What remains should already be pretty safe for the sensible person.

      The 200 ft. number is less important, I think.

      • Not sure I agree. I would much rather be 200′ from the TC than 500′ from the TC. In this case, I think length does matter. JDA

        • But the question was about the importance of those numbers in relation to our own general solutions, not yours 😉

          Cheers and good luck on your next search.

  14. “In case of war – break glass.” What a tribute!


  15. I have a question for all fellow searchers:
    Im sure we have all seen Dal’s cheat sheet where it says not in a graveyard, mine or cave.
    I have searched everywhere and cannot find where FF specifically says it’s not in a cave. I’m headed out next month and I don’t want to be eaten by a bear or anything searching caves if I don’t need to . I’m just looking for the quote or interview where this is ruled out. (Sorry, Dal. I really should take your word on this) Any help is appreciated

  16. FF has mastered its poem to mislead all of us into
    Various scenario and place. No wonder it took him so long to play with it! I myself have two plausible completely different scenario and its kind lling me…i will continue to gather info and we will see! Good luck to you all!

  17. Thanks Zap. An individual like this would be rare hence the reason the treasure is still out there. This is one reason I feel that individuals who think differently would have a much better chance if they brainstormed and worked together.

    • Hi Aaron: a diverse group of individuals, working together, drawing on all of their individual talents would be a formidable opponent in the Chase. Is there such a group that we don’t know about working behind the scenes? If so, they would be the ones to worry about. But perhaps the bragging rights of solving it solo is too attractive for talented individuals to be interested in collaboration.

      • Yes bragging rights and the ability to keep the entire trove are two of the largest detractors from teaming up. There is also the trust factor, and the inability to meet up in person easily. There are problems with a team but the benefit could not only prove to be a formidable opponent but the only very serious contender IMO. I hope I am wrong though and it is found this summer.

        • Again, my friend, I wish you the very best in getting your group together, You have clearly stated three major reasons people like myself will choose not to participate – among a couple of other reasons. Who knows, maybe your last sentence will come true, and the arguments pro and com will evaporate – Only time shall tell – 🙂 JDA

          • Thanks JDA, maybe it will come true indeed. If it does not then we can see what can be done. There are pro’s and con’s to teamwork but if we continue to travel up to the mountains only to return home empty handed the only pro’s to that scenario is a good vacation. I do enjoy a good vacation, don’t get me wrong, but at some point I’d like it to be on a beach sipping something cold 🙂

        • Aaron, you’re close to us, maybe you, me, and Zap could get a vacation rental going in Montana. Of course, you’d have to get through Zap and I arguing about everything, but since we both know where the chest is, it would increase your chances. (as long as you follow me of course). I’m sure our women would love to hear all the arguing amongst the three alphas about some supposed treasure chest in the mountains. A day would have to be set aside for shopping and casinos, (we may need to find the chest, or go broke in one trip). Sounds formidable to me.

          • Sure glad you guys are going to be arguing in Montana, so I can enjoy some solitude in Wyoming 🙂 JDA

          • Haha, sounds like a good time Charlie. From the sound of it we would be stopping in Vegas on the way.

            Since everyone knows where the chest is it should be an easy laid back trip, as long as we don’t talk to each other 🙂

            I think we’d be better off just meeting for a beer somewhere in SoCal.

          • San Diego is certainly the craft beer capital of the world, so Aaron has that going for him!

  18. Hi TimM: just wanted to say that I think you hit the nail on the head at the tail end of Odds and Ends #51 when you suggested that the reason Travis Brown keeps bringing up “kettle corn” is because of the pot of corn hidden under a flagstone that Forrest and Charmay uncovered at San Lazaro. Many have opined that the treasure chest is similarly secreted/sepulchered under a flat rock, since the illustration shows a basket (suspiciously the size and shape of the treasure chest) hidden within the corn-and-bug filled pot.

    • Yep I pop kettle corn for a living.. hint hint. And yes I have also agree with how the TC is “hidden” that Forrest and Charamay uncovered. I also believe that the covering of the chest is 5 rocks or one solid piece of Flagstone.

      • Travis you had me going for a second. Not 5 rocks, nor one solid piece of Flagstone. Although a flagstone CAN be a “Tarry Scant” – Think thicker (IMO) and think more than 5 rocks on top – JMO – JDA

      • TB,

        It would have to be a place where this kind of rock was normal to meet.

        Otherwise, someone could stumble on a stone like this and find the TC, do you agree?

    • Maybe Curious Hobbit will come back, now that we have someone to make us popcorn while we watch the show!

    • Your thought about a special flagstone is interesting to me. FF has said that he took the gold in one time and the treasure chest in the second time (5/29/15 Richard Eeds interview). In your special flagstone hypothesis, FF also carried the flagstone during one of these trips in addition to the TC and the gold?

      I also think it’s hidden under a flat stone, but hadn’t considered the possibility he brought the stone with him.

      • Why would Forrest have to bring it with him on that trip or another? After all it IS the ROCKY Mountains isn’t it? Think he could find what he needed nearby? Probably! – JMO – JDA

  19. Does average equal normal?

    Statistically speaking, the mean (average) means exactly half of the objects are above the midpoint, and the other half are below it.

    Generally speaking, the average person understands that when placing reference points on a graph, that the bell curve is loaded with average indicators.

    One pet peeve of mine is when a weather reporter will say that the normal high for the day is such and such, when what they are meaning to say is that the average high for the day is such and such. In a case like that average does not equal normal.

    So what makes a searcher average? Or what will make the finder average? It is my opinion the word was being used more colloquially and not exactly dividing the masses.

    Heaven knows I am abby-normal…

    • Hi Swwot:

      “Statistically speaking, the mean (average) means exactly half of the objects are above the midpoint, and the other half are below it.”

      Actually, what you’ve described is the median. However, in a perfect gaussian (bell curve) distribution, the mean and the median are the same. (It’s things like salaries and home prices where the median and mean can, and usually are, very far apart).

      In the case of treasure hunters, those within one-sigma of the mean do have one significant factor in their favor: shear numbers. If there have been 350,000 searchers, almost 240,000 of them would be “average” by this definition.

      However, I have a hard time believing that 350,000 people have actually gone out searching at least once within the last 7+ years — which is obviously a prerequisite for finding the chest. Intelligence and intuition mean nothing if you’re never actually BOTG.

      • Without wanting to appear mean, what I mean to say is that the mean searcher probably is not average. The average person would not spend hours at a time banging his/her head against a wall trying to find a 10″ X 10″ X 5″ bronze chest somewhere in the Rocky mountains 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe, and somewhere south of Canada. – but NOT in Idaho or Utah. So, I guess I, along with the rest of you reading this are NOT average. So, does that make us above or below average? Yuck – Yuck 🙂 JDA

        • It makes us above average when it comes to desire to find the chest but not necessarily above average in intelligence.

          • exactly, and thank f that this is not an intelligence test, because going into the mountains, in Montana, in November, was not very smart. For me anyway. (I never knew that you can actually fall asleep standing up when the snow is up to your kneecaps, or that nightfall comes in the middle of the afternoon)

          • About being normal or not … just my thoughts.

            I think that someone who knows FF well, who has lived more closely with him, would have more chances.

            And if it’s a woman, more chances than any of us.

            Women perceive things that men do not even suspect.

            To a normal person, I would say that this person would depend more on intuition than knowledge itself.

            A good observer takes into account factors that go unnoticed by the majority.

            For example:

            Short answers, long answers, quick answers, rhetoric, yes, no, too much explanation, little explanation, evasive, ironic.

            Each type reveals the intent behind the answer. But this also depends on the context.

            What is most common in people is to respond with short answers to what they consider to be dangerous to them.

            If they are to blame or want to deny something, they often give long explanations that bring credibility to what they say.

            A simple “yes” can mean a “no,” which would require a lot of explanation and bring more problems than answers, and leaves the questioner satisfied.

            In the background I believe he did not hide the TC in a place where he would make the passage. The history of illness, of Maverick, of taking his own life serve as a backdrop for something he has been planning and building for the future, just as he is doing with the bells.

            Preserve something for future archaeologists and researchers to feel what he feels today when he finds a 2000 year relic.

            He does not intend to be immortalized, he just leave a trace in the sand of time.

            That’s what I understood from the big picture.

            I am not judging, not even “affirming” anything.

            It’s just impressions and thinks.

          • The successful searcher will be above average in persistence and obsessiveness, IMO. Some unsuccessful searchers have shown confirmation bias at a six sigma level.

      • Mean/median – I’ve heard it both ways… 🙂

        Actually, thanx for the correction.

        • The one that runs over the “median” with all four tires will probably be the one to bet on….

          • Mr. Brown —

            I’ll take your bet and give you 5:1 odds if you are willing to bet $100 . I would give you until 8/1/18 to find it. In the interest of fairness though I must disclose that I have personal knowledge which defeats your solution . If your willing to wager, I will donate my winnings from you to charity.

            Best regards–Billy

          • Sheriff Billy,

            what specific knowledge of area? Just randomly curious.

            I have my solve. Planning on a late summer trip probably.

      • But Zap, if we have too many plot points above or below but still within tolerance of the whole, (normal), wouldn’t the whole sample be out of control? (me trying to sound smart):)
        An actual working process would be for the chart to have equal amounts above and below and not so many together one way or another. (average but not normal)
        So, to answer swwot’s question, no, average does not equal normal. Pertaining to the chase, I think we all know that a lot of points reflecting searchers would be, while in tolerance, below the mean line. Which would be normal. (sorry, entering cpk data for some Honeywell parts and got carried away…)

        • Or, maybe it’s just normal for me to argue with Zap. On the average, it’s all fun…

  20. Odds in my imagination:

    The search location has a smile format.

    The place of the treasure is shaped like a smile.

    WWWH has a smile shape.

    Cd has a smile format.

    Hob has a smile format.

    Go through “no place for the meek” with a confident smile.

    The close end causes a smile.

    Your creek is shaped like a smile.

    Heavy Loads and Water High have a smile shape.

    Using wisdom and finding Blaze makes us smile.

    Blaze can be like a warm smile.

    Marvel Gaze can bring a smile of joy.

    A smile can be a log to cross a stream.

    FF said: If you wear a smile to the treasure, will wear a smile back home.

    The Thrill of the Chase was written to put a smile on your face.

    The key word is: Smile! Joy! Happiness! Contentment! Achievement!

    What if…?

    • I think you have taken the smile thing a bit far. Do one or two of the clue locations resemble a smile – quite possibly, but ALL? Not likely – JMO – JDA

    • McB….where did you find out that

      SMILE = a log to cross a stream?
      I’ve been trying to locate this information via old west slang and meanings but can not find anything about the word SMILE meaning a log to cross a stream. Thanks…


  21. Zap: Continuing from above, yes, I share your opinion that the keyword is in the final chapter of OUAW and yet it isn’t a word in the chapter, in same way it’s in the poem. We probably don’t have the same keyword in mind, but possibly we do have the same word that is key in mind.

    Do you wonder why Forrest cast number 28 first and not numbers 29 or 30? I did at first.

    • XFiles: like you, I was initially mystified by the significance of Forrest casting #28 first (and keeping it) — after all, if he cast 30 of them, and the lower numbers are more valuable to buyers, then as you point out, why not cast #30 first to work out “the kinks”? But eventually I had that “ahha” moment, and came up with a quite satisfying answer. Lugnutz would call it blatant confirmation bias, and he could be right. But man, what a slamdunk it is for my solution.

      • Zap: I think Forrest said the “casting bugs”, but I hear ya. Well, if you had your solution already, and you thought about this puzzle and realized how it fits — and it does beg explanation because logically Fenn would’ve cast #30 first — then I wouldn’t call it confirmation bias. I’d call it in the spirit of building a case as detective would do. I wish I would’ve figured out that significance faster but all it did was confirm what I already suspected.

  22. How about there is a locked gate at 500 ft. And most stop there. Those that venture past come within 200ft? With the chest being 200 off of the trail you are walking.

    • I think many searchers are being thrown off by the 200 and 500 foot comments from Forrest. Extremely unlikely, in my opinion, that any kind of road or trail is within 500 feet of the treasure. I can’t imagine that Forrest would have intended to lay down and die in a place that near to where people were likely to venture.

      • I already thought about that too …

        I already thought about that too …

        What if he had parked the car at the end of a road and continued on foot?

        Some researcher may have followed the same path that FF did on foot, but it was not until the end of the trail … (thus missing 200 feet for the chest)

        Already others went only to the end of the road. (500 feet)


      • I’ll give an example of a place close to a road that people won’t generally venture. Millions of people enter Yellowstone every year. Picture the gates into Yellowstone, dozens of cars deep, traffic stop and go, you finally get through and are driving to see the wonders of Yellowstone. Maybe you pull off at the turn off on the south side of the Madison that describes the fire.. Then you get in your car and continue on to Madison Junction, or to the fire hole, or the grand loop… all the while ignoring the former fire lookout that was on the rise on the south side of the road about 2 miles in. There’s some scattered metal remnants on the rocky outcrop, but from there you can see the Madison winding to the north as the cars below you look for their first glimpse of a Buffalo, a Grizz, or a wolf..

      • Well Tom, we are all entitled to our opinion. We will just have to wait and see when it is found. Good luck with your search. JDA

          • As I stated,
            I’ll park here on the side of the road and go into the woods 500′ and hide the treasure.
            Why 2 trips @ 500′?
            Could have taken all 42 pounds and took a 2 hour break @ the 250′ mark.

          • How about 500′ from an abandoned road? Something where people may still follow it to get from A>B, however it is long forgotten?

          • If an abandoned road is abandoned then there would be no traffic and lots of people wouldn’t be there.
            Not long forgotten if it’s used.

        • Also, that leads me to deduce it is not in YNP (IMO of course) , because in an email reply to a searcher in 2014 he says “Generally speaking, there are places where one should stay on established trails; Yellowstone is one.”

          • You might want to read Dal’s post, “Not In Yellowstone” from a few days ago.

          • I read that post. It centered around an unclear statement that Forrest made about not being in Yellowstone… I don’t think he meant it as it was construed, and I generally believe the YNP area was visited often by Forrest.

            I never said YNP wasn’t important or part of the solve, I just don’t believe it is in YNP

          • If it is in Yellowstone, I don’t believe it is anywhere near the Norris Geyser Basin, loser Geyser Basin, GCotY, or more then 500’ from a road

          • i have added Yellowstone park to my cheat sheet of places not. now looking for mirror image of Yellowstone park.
            i think.

        • Maybe abandoned as a road, but could still be used as a trail. What if the trail is water, because people walk along and fish it.

          When I say long forgotten, that doesn’t mean “many” people don’t know about it… but in today’s generation, if it isn’t on Waze, apple maps, google maps, etc it’s not there.

  23. Indeed it is Zap, I even got married at a brewery 🙂 Some may find that strange but we have some pretty outstanding breweries here in San Diego.

      • Stone in Escondido is very nice as is the newer Stone in Liberty Station. We married at Mission Brewery next to ball park downtown.

      • Also, on Sunday I went to a baby shower at Ballast Point downtown. I know strange huh? They did it there and invited men so I thought why not? It is odd to drink beer while a pregnant woman opens gifts and everyone is standing around imagining how the baby would enjoy the gift, replying with aww. There was a basketball playoff game on at least 🙂

        Speaking of good beer I have found a few good breweries in the treasure hunting area. Finding that six pack after finding the chest won’t be as easy as San Diego but not too hard.

        • check out road house brewing (Jackson) and Melvin (alpine), two of my favorites…and I’m in CO, so plenty of good competition. My list of current favorites (all IPAs, cost/value are somewhat a driver for me…who pays $14 for 6 beers?):
          1) Santa Fe Brewing (of course!) Happy Camper IPA !…I can get a 6 pack of cans for $6.99! 2) Elevation brewing – First Cast IPA (fishing reference of course!) 3) Road House Brewing – Wilson (really easy drinking IPA for a 6.5% er) 4) Melvin – Hey Zeus Mexican Lager or their IPA, both really good. 5) Odell’s drum roll (APA, easy drinker as well). For you Montana folks, Big Sky brewing – moose drool is pretty solid for a brown ale…so what do you fennatics drink after a day of searching (or researching)?

          • Thanks Tbug, If I make down that way I will check out Road House. I do not recall seeing many of those last year but maybe Big Sky. I have never seen a 6 pack of any IPA for 6.99. If I find the chest though I will celebrate with a $14 six pack! Ballast point sculpin is one of my favorites but it is $14.99 a six pack here. Elysian Space Dust IPA has been one of my recent favorites and I love all Belching Beaver beers, especially peanut butter milk stout. If the searcher with the beaver damn solve finds it perhaps they should look into that beer 🙂

  24. Curious when all of you searchers plan on making your first venture out.

      • Forrest said Summer not Spring.
        Maybe someone mentioned the place to him and planned a summer trip?
        Wasn’t me, I may wait till Fall.
        Did you email him that you were going in Spring?

    • “It’s tough to make predictions, especially about the future.”
      ― Yogi Berra

      • What makes those predictions especially hard is
        “The future ain’t what it used to be.”
        -Yogi Berra

    • First trip? Probably you mean first trip of the season.

      Those with experience know that the creeks are all swollen right now and another full month is required before crossing a creek is safe.

      Don’t waste your money and time. Go in July. The treasure can wait.

        • Thanks for that.

          So everybody, never mind my advice, just don’t get your feet wet and you won’t die.

          It does make sense..

        • I will disagree here. you do need to get wet in my opinion..no read that closely… I’m not talking about a dangerous situation either. if you can give your opinion, then explain ya’lls thoughts on “your effort will be worth the cold” in the poem.

          • How about “Cold & Calculated”

            Walk right to it, no emotion, calculated

    • What do you think a bell would be worth if you found one? Where do you think they are buried, San larazo?

      • My guess is that there are no clues to the bells’ location whatsoever. I think Forrest had a different goal for them (longevity).

    • I have no idea where any of the bells would be or their value. Your guess is as good as mine.


      • True. I’m just a little surprised nobody has talked much about them. It’s all about the poem and the millions though. No hints or clues to the whereabouts of the bells of course, or are there?

        • really? little c charlie is a believer that the bells play a role in the hunt (surprised he hasn’t chimed in to tell us all that we can’t solve the poem yet)

      • I don’t think those bells were meant to be found until much later. If FF wanted them found, he would have given some type of information as to where they are.

        Thanks for the well wishes. I’ve got a pretty god feeling about this trip. I will have fun, regardless. My wife is going with me and she’s never been to the area. I think she will love it!

        Happy hunting… stay safe!


        • Fenn intended those bells to be found much later than 1000 yrs from now you think? Fenn doesn’t think the treasure will be found soon, it could be a 1000 yrs.

      • **supposed to say “I’ve got a pretty good feeling about this trip” no god…. sorry


    • Good luck TimM! By the way, does your search spot have a location within 200 feet where some searchers would have been and another location within 500 feet where lots of people have been?

      • I’ve used some basic trig from those quotes by fenn. It’s fun. Seriously I liked implementing it in my tries. Tim is getting a little funny. Seems like he rescinded his gut feeling comment in his last rendezvous with the media. I’m sure it will be found this summer. Hopefully by you, since I’m scared what you will do if it isn’t. Most people are kind here, but you creep me out kind of.

    • Based on the previous sentence may refer to death. (grave / tombstone)

      Based on TOTOTC and TFTW. The symbols of “The End” at the end of the books. (omegas / horseshoes)

      I have both in my solution. (And in the clue order of the poem.)

      I think that could that help … JMO

    • Maybe there is a reference to the ‘Center of the universe’ located in Tulsa Oklahoma. You should look into it, might just be what somebody wanted to hear!

      • I’m inclined to think of my “center of the universe” as a highway Travel Center with leather goods, knives, candies, and a Subway.

      • Kal—-

        Thanks for that. I had never heard of that before. And Tulsa has been of great interest to me for a couple of reasons. Very cool.

  25. Is there any mention of the treasure or The Thrill of the Chase in OUAW?

  26. Besides the LARGE photo of the treasure chest and the foreword by D. Preston?

  27. Question for everyone:
    After not finding Indulgence last year, did you completely rethink your possible solve or are you going back to search more thoroughly?
    I don’t know about all of y’all , but I am rearing to get back to my spot in a few weeks and will continue to look until I have exhausted it. I have to think to myself…. what if I were only feet away and gave up?

    • Hey Veronica, I have been on one path to the treasure since I began looking…and I am convinced it is the correct path. People talk about their location where they think the treasure is. I have stopped assuming where the treasure might be and instead I follow the clues which keep coming along the way…eventually, I believe the clues will lead me to the treasure.

      • Exactly the same for me! It’s that feeling that you are in the right spot.

      • I think the only clue I have Rerouted was my meek place. Good luck to you Boaz!

  28. McB, above you said May 8, 8:47 am, these words:

    Researchers “less” attentive to the poem and ordinary people have passed or * IMO stopped(note well: “stopped”) less than 500 feet from the treasure.

    IMO there is a road and less than 300 feet by side has a “trail” (IMO not exactly a trail, but something that can be traversed, like a dry stream perhaps) and at this road has a place to stop / park (but not campground).

    I believe this site is the “exact” description of stanza 3 and that if you are wise “at this very point” you will find (you will not see) “find” Blaze with BOTG.

    The problem with this analogy IMO is why would you have to then walk over a few miles, to secret the TC in one step and the treasure in another, if the chest is only 500′ away, and ff walked more than a FEW miles that afternoon in Summer?

    What seems logical to me is this, when those people were 500′ away or even 200′ away what makes this “distinction” are we no missing the point, just like 10,000 ft is it not 10,200 ft that is the actual “rub” ?

    This Borders on sublime inference, not the work of a genius necessarily, just CLEVER wordsmithing.

    The poem is IMO a clever structure that, to be understood, need the distinction of it’s hints
    from it’s clues, and only the book contains the IMPORTANT LITERATURE see page 9, Thrill Book, and focus on Border Line Biddies, how else can you get the exact latitude and longitude? We have the altitude, longitude and latitude of the area, just need the blaze to confirm it.


      • Travis do you know what In the wood means?I know jmo!I have had my solve done last Nov I knew it was to late.I have been in the mountains in October had 8″ of snow.It has been hard but kept horse rained in.I guess I Will have to grinn and bear it for a little while longer maybe come out with a smile

        • Clint;

          You say that you know what “In the wood” means – but I personally doubt it. “In the wood” has about three different meanings to me. One will not get you the prize – IMO. Even if you do, is knowing that one thing going to be enough to get you the prize? Probably not. It takes a lot more than one item – In my opinion anyway.

          Best of luck to you though – JDA

          • JDA,
            Ugh…..I have 2 too many meanings for “in the wood”, and not nearly enough of brave understanding, sigh.

            I know where to look. I am just not sure what I am looking for, after the blaze (I already know what I’m supposed to see there). That is what gives me a smaller general area…but it is still rather large in the context of finding something so small. So surely there is a tarried rock? A scant rock? A rock cap? A tree stump? A star/asterisk Underwood? A carving on a rock or tree (which are actually more dominant than I expected).
            It is a little agonizing! 🙂

            i feel like something has to point the way (on the ground, other than the blaze) and I am missing it in the poem somewhere and on my BOTG trips. Or, of course, the easy answer would be that I am in the wrong place, but for now I’m still going to go with it.

          • In the wood: cuckoo for cocoa puffs. Snore. The obscure definitions are all yours, JDA. Hope they help.

          • KK;

            Keep working – It will all become clear in time – At least it did for me.


            I assure you my definitions help – JDA

          • Travis;

            I never discuss anything off line that I am not willing to discuss on the blog – but – My email address is SculptorJDA at aol dot com JDA

          • Hi JDA I was just asking Travis if knew what in the wood is. I know what they all are the clues I mean and most of the hints.jmo

        • Clint yes I do know exactly what In the wood means. I have to be a termite.

          Where does your solve take you Clint
          And define 8” of snow.

          • Travis Just asking what you though in the wood ment.the 8″ of snow where I was at in OCT and know NOV would be much worst last year.Fenn said stay out of the mountains when winter comes.Just thinking how many others know about your kettle corn.you kept dropping your kettle corn there’s going to be a crowd there DUDE!!!

    • TT,

      I’m more simplistic and purist.

      I do not think the poem gives us coordinates.

      But I also do not doubt that I can have it.

      As FF said, “It’s simple!”

      Maybe yes, maybe not”. : )

      • Oh,

        As at distances, a higher ravine is enough to force FF to take a great turn until it reaches the secret place. This is easier to understand.

        IMO of course…

        • McB: your Forrest quote is the *opposite* of saying it’s simple.

          • Zap, Chance,

            I’m talking about the “poem” being simple, not the “solution” being simple.

            Because it really is not. Getting an idea of paper is one (simple) thing, but executing this idea in the physical world is something else.

            Sorry if I mispronounced. I can not translate “every word” that I post or read here.

            : )

          • 7/6/2014
            Forrest, you talk about the clues being difficult to solve (opposite being easy) yet that the solutions are simple (opposite being complex). Yet when I read the stories of other searchers, I often think that their solutions to the clues tend to be either easy solutions or made out to be very complex and over-thought. Are there any suggestions you would give in approaching the clues and solving them? ~Craig

            “Craig, there is no substitute for thinking and planning and observing and looking at maps, unless it’s the desire to keep it simple.f”

            Take the two negatives from the above sentence, and it will look like this:

            “Craig, there is substitute for thinking and planning and observing and looking at maps, it’s the desire to keep it simple.f”


            *Scrapbook Sixty Two…
            http://dalneitzel.com/2014/04/26/scrapbook-sixty-two/ m
            “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f”

            ATTENTION! Please, I do not want to belittle or diminish anyone.

            I just want everyone to look at the hunt with “less obsessiveness and worship.”

            I’ll give an example of “how” researchers complicate things:

            When FF talked about looking at the “big picture”, there were researchers who started crafting clues based on frame frames.

            “Sincerely!!” If the researcher takes into account “every comma” that FF talks about, this hunt will last for several millennia.

            I researched my translations and for me “the poem is simple and easy”.

            I will repeat: “THE SOLUTION is not easy, because it involves the physical world.

            I do not need special information, university knowledge, codes, tables, zodiacs, figures, binaries, coordinates, none of this …

            FF did not say: GEOGRAPHY? Geography is the drawing of the earth.

            He did not talk about math, philosophy, history, chemistry, physics, any of that …

            So tell me, “Is not the poem simple?” Just read, look, think and test …

            And more: Look at FF … he’s a simple guy, his stories are simple, the way he talks about it is simple, why would the hunt be any different?

            When I decided to think in a simple way I found a unique WWWH, which I believe, IMO FF must have known in one of his trips abroad. And it’s a very simple thing. There are several in the USA. But as American only speaks “one language”, it becomes almost impossible for an American to find. (For me it’s simple because it has here in Brazil and I even had contact with it.)

            If I had the whole book in Portuguese to read, I’m still sure that I would do better just thinking about how FF wrote the poem.

            I depend on translating ALL. And the translation is not always correct. I may be wrong to say a word. But I hope I’m right about the way I think.

            **** TC has not been found yet. ****

          • Hi McB: I have no doubt you’re aware that you are at a bit of a disadvantage since English is not your native language. As a result, there are subtleties of English (beyond just idioms) that will not translate well into Portuguese or other languages. When Forrest writes, “Craig, there is no substitute for thinking and planning and observing and looking at maps, unless it’s the desire to keep it simple.f”, the normal way to read this is that Forrest is not only recommending that searchers perform the former activities, he is suggesting that one explanation for a searcher who is resistant to doing so would be someone who is trying to oversimplify the problem.

            Now, on the other hand we have the SB 62 statement about searchers overrating the complexity of the search by incorporating arcane knowledge (head pressures, Latin, bible verses and so forth) into their solutions. That doesn’t mean the solution isn’t difficult to arrive at; he’s just cautioning about running off the rails and going down rabbit holes. Instead, he drums it into us: stick to the poem, maps and/or Google Earth, and his first memoir. These should be sufficient.

            “I researched my translations and for me ‘the poem is simple and easy’.” I’ll have to challenge you on this statement, McB. The poem is written with simple words, but the solution is far from easy in my opinion. If it was easy, everyone by now would have the starting point, and yet after almost 8 years people are still searching in all four states. That tells me the solution to WWWH is bedeviling the majority of searchers.

            You then opine, “I will repeat: “THE SOLUTION is not easy, because it involves the physical world.”

            I disagree. The difficulty of the solution has nothing to do with the physical world, IMO. The poem is hard because it’s a puzzle that requires unconventional thinking to unravel.

            “I do not need special information, university knowledge, codes, tables, zodiacs, figures, binaries, coordinates, none of this …”

            This statement I do agree with.

            “Look at FF … he’s a simple guy, his stories are simple, the way he talks about it is simple, why would the hunt be any different?”

            Why indeed. “Occasionally it’s wise for the fox to dress like the hound.”

          • Now TimM how would you answer that question silly Rabbit.. Lesley’s just say I have a hunch. Confidence.

          • Travis Brown,

            I will answer it… I know why you need a flashlight and a sandwich. That’s my confirmation. IMO…

            As far as hunches go, thousands of people have had them. A hunch won’t get you very far.

            All IMO…


          • TimM,
            Because Maybe you’ll get hungry or lost after dark?

            I would say that a sandwich or flashlight is required the same reason that you should know the treasure is at least 300 miles west of Tony Packos

            I hate when I reply to the wrong subthread

          • JimB,

            I had to look up Tony Packo’s… lol. I’ll have to think about that one for a bit.

            My replies have been all over the place today…


          • TimM,
            Tony Packos is a hot dog joint in Toledo (couple hours form me)… It’s the one Klinger talks about in MASH

          • TimM,
            Also, Hasn’t Forrest said that if you knew the clues you could walk right to it? He put it there in an afternoon, walked less than a few miles? So one could say, If you left in the morning, knew the clues, you wouldn’t need food, a flashlight, a water bottle, or anything else… I think those are some good Boy Scout advice items.. ie Be Prepared…

            IMO of course

          • JimB,

            I’ve always been a huge fan of MASH. I should have known what you were talking about. I’m not sure how Toledo or Tony Packo’s fits into the solution, if at all.

            I’m a few hours from Toledo too… closer to Cleveland.

            Happy hunting!


          • JimB,

            I disagree. I think Forrest gives little tidbits like this because it is a way of confirming your solution. Everything he says has a point… those little suggestions that people often overlook have meaning…

            All IMO


          • TimM,
            I work in Cleveland and live about 40 minutes south.

            Maybe on the tidbits… He has said many times before though that people ask for clues and he gives them information that isn’t going to necessarily help them. The example was the lady that called and he gave her the “300 miles west of Toledo” hint.

      • Answer: Never. To the contrary: “I said in my book that the solution will be difficult but not impossible. If it was easy anyone could do it. Whoever finds the treasure will mostly earn it with their imagination. I have done only a few things in my life that were truly planned. Hiding the treasure chest is one of them. And at the end, the one who finds the gold will not feel lucky, but instead, will ask himself, ‘what took me so long?’”

        • Zap,


          Imagine how many WWWHs there are.

          The amount of Canons next to each WWWH.

          And so on…

          • Travis Brown,

            Good luck to you. I look forward to reading your solution after you make your next trip.

            Stay safe!


          • I apologize if my comments are bouncing all over the place. I’m posting from my phone and sometimes it’s hard to tell where the comments go. Sorry!


        • Tim. Sounds yummy.
          I will be taking a Subway sandwich, and a flashlight just Incase. But I don’t plan on hiking after dusk. So a flashlight IMO will not be needed. There will be plenty of light where the Blaze is. Plenty.

          • Some people have problems connecting with aol. If this happens – email Dal, and have Dal send me your email address, Once I email you, connecting to aol usually works – JDA

    • @ tomterrifc – “But I will say that I walked LESS than a few miles if that will help” (i added emphasis) from FF’s quote on 10/13/2014.

      Are you seeing something where FF said he walked more than a few miles?… in response to your sentence “and ff walked more than a FEW miles that afternoon in Summer?”

      Perhaps I have misunderstood your reply to McB?

  29. Has there ever been a discussion on why there’s a dove nesting in the moon ?

    • @J(TZP),

      Yep, it’s been cussed & discussed thousands of times!! But, I’ve ignored them for about five years now. Not real sure why peeps dwell on what fenn may, or may not have said to other searchers….yet they ignore what fenn has told Dal??

      https://dalneitzel.com/2013/04/04/the-nine-clues-part-twentytwo/#comment-21187 – dal on May 24, 2013 at 4:34 pm said: Stu:
      I’ve talked with Forrest about that illustration. He told me that it was simply a comment about loss of wild lands and habitat for wild animals…nothing more. I know he has another illustration in similar character in his new book and it has the same meaning…….

      (I do think dal is in the wrong state, though!! 🙂 )

    • @Kym re: Why no SB #32, from my recollection Sir Dal has shared with us that he chose to skip that number and didn’t care to discuss the reason any further!

      • Thanks Cholly, I was reading ttotc site and it was discussing the contents, so I was curious

      • No SB#32? It is a personal issue for Dal. It is not related to the chase.

  30. Q) The special place where Forrest hid the chest has no human trail nearby, right?

    My ans: Must be an easy bushwhack or cow/animal trail through forest for 80 year old.

    Q2) The elevation ff gave goes up to 10,200′ high, right?

    Me: Because 10,000 was extended to 10,200 that is an apparent “anomaly”.

    Q3) It probably is near a scenic spot (tarry scant with marvel gaze) and is near a mountain top, per ff right?

    IMO: By Rocky Mountain standards, a nearby 10,200′ to 11,000 or less mountain top is diminutive, therefore another anomaly.

    Q4) Many have been 500′ away, correct?

    Ans : ff said he walked more than a few miles that day (in total), so anything over 1 to 2 miles from where he parked his Sedan, correct? Why? it is a conundrum, why not just park and climb/walk to TC?

    All these are anomalies that need to exist where indulgence is ensconced, I gave my beliefs so let’s hear yours. Truly there are many more like these, and even if we are wise, that blaze could be hidden or tiny?


    • I like your thinking TT. Very logical.
      So how far do you think he walked.

      Do you think he bush Wacked or took a trail till he had to exit the trail

      What elevation do you think it’s at.

      Which state do you think it’s in.

      “Kettle Corn”

  31. TT,

    You said: Q4) Many have been 500′ away, correct?

    Ans : ff said he walked more than a few miles that day (in total), so anything over 1 to 2 miles from where he parked his Sedan, correct? Why? it is a conundrum, why not just park and climb/walk to TC?

    Correct me if I’m wrong… but my recollection is that he said “less than a few miles”



    • You are correct, he did say less than a “few” the definition of few is “a small number of” to me it means less than 4, but more than two. Probably 1 mile plus each way, a lot more than 500′. The imagination beggs this question, what prevents him or any of us from walking 500′? He says it’s not in a dangerous place? Right. I doubt that anything short of an Airport Runway or Train Track could explain this. Can one stop at any point on a dirt road, highway? Now try that on an Airplane or a Train? Many within 500′?

      Please note how ff has defined with exact correctness word: “Several” at Moby Dickens.

      Few has a “common denominator” it is close to 1 mile. but much less than two, then consider two trips. less than 4 or near 4. JMHO >:)


      • I believe people are prevented from walking that 500′ due to a misconception of a clue. The challenge, I believe, is finding the location that some other aberration of the misunderstood clue exist, in order to understand why they kept going past the treasure. This spot will help with confirmation IMO.

        • Aaron;

          For me, it is quite simple. The main trail goes forward, and a small side trail is overlooked. As simple as that – JDA

          • Great point JDA, and this example is exactly why I asked the question about whether they were led astray on site or on a map. Knowing what exactly made them miss this trail could help a future searcher in the correct location. A clue should tell them to head down the small side trail, in this example, should it not? If so was an aberration of a clue that, for lack of a better term, disguises itself as the real clue is what led them that way.

            Fenn mentioned, and I am paraphrasing, that they stopped, and then went past the TC thus leaving the poem. IMO, If we are in this spot, while searching, it is vital to be cognizant of this so that we head the right direction.

            So knowing all of this I’ll ask again. Is it more likely that searchers headed off in the wrong direction based on what they thought was a clue, likely the third clue. Or did the make the decision to head the wrong direction while on site?

            These are very important questions and I’ll explain why. If they only determined which direction to head by being on site then that would lead me to believe one of two things. Only the first few clues can be predetermined without BOTG and you have to adjust on site for the remaining. Or, not only did they not understand they next clue, likely the third IMO, but something on a map made them think that they were headed in the right direction of the clue they were looking for. If that is the case then perhaps not only understanding the misinterpreted clue will help but being able to find a location on a map that disguises itself as the clue while the real one is up the “small side trail” that you suggest.

          • Aaron;

            You say, “So knowing all of this I’ll ask again. Is it more likely that searchers headed off in the wrong direction based on what they thought was a clue, likely the third clue. ..

            I very much disagree that the “error” place is clue #3. For me, they have passed clue #3 (hoB) – Passed the Meek Place (Clue #4) gone to the “end” place (clue #5) Are at clue #6 – No paddle up your creek, and are mislead by thinking that they have (wrongly) figured out what “Heavy Loads and Water High” are.
            “Or did the make the decision to head the wrong direction while on site?” Either or both. The wrong decision could have been made while looking at a map or on-site. Either way, IMO, they make a wrong decision at that spot. JMO – JDA

      • I’ll help you think,

        I’m sorry, but it’s JUST my opinion and nothing else.

        Being within 500 feet of something does not mean you can walk up to it by walking 500 feet.

        There may be obstacles between you and the chest that force you to walk much longer than 500 feet.

        “Imagine” (imagination is more important than knowledge):

        FF may have avoided some obstacles to get to the secret place (maybe because of his age he preferred to go a long way).

        He did not say that children would have an advantage by having better eyes and being more agile?

        The guy who got to less than 200 feet certainly did not care about obstacles. He just did not realize that he was on the right track because it complicated the solution of the clues too much (I’m pretty sure he did not understand the meaning of TFTW in the phrase).

        Want an example of TFTW? Try to kiss your elbow. Your elbow NF, BTFTKiss.

        I guess that’s why the chest has not been found yet.

        FF “hinted” that the most difficult clue is “WWWH”, but everyone prefers to be looking for an explanation for “BLAZE”.

        People “complicate much” the simply things
        and they “simplify much” the more complicated things.

        • And given the fact McB that we don’t really know what he means as far as possible elevation as a distance, 200′ could be a mile distance. Especially if we are walking up a mountain. Someone could have been a mile away but only 200′ in elevation.
          You’re right, searchers like to try to solve clues ahead of others, but let them. They will have a good vacation. Searchers don’t want to hear that the information needed to solve these two clues is not out there, not available, and is not supplied by f. I don’t care what they say, f must be laughing when he hears or reads that people have solved these two clues. He must think, “how did they solve for them when I never gave them info to solve for them?”. The blogs are entertaining.
          A lot of searchers just don’t want to believe there are no answers for these clues, it throws a huge wrench in the solve they have so intelligently come up with in solving the clues. It means starting over and to some, ego doesn’t allow them to believe. No matter if f says it or not.
          And that is all okay, the chase is meant to be fun, and if in solving the poem, searchers believe they have solved certain clues, then the chase is giving back. It feeds the egos, it confirms individual thinking, and makes people feel better in a day they have had an “ah ha” moment. Puts a little bounce in the step. And, even though all our trips could ring up “quite a few” dollars, have not seen anybody complaining when they share their stories. Even wrong solves seem to find a positive outcome, if they were smart in their prep. A lot of people this summer will come home empty handed but happy. So can we define their trip or solve wrong? ( well yea, I guess so. :)) They might not though.

      • I think if you try to put a number on “few”, you’re asking for trouble.
        ‘Less than a few miles” could easily be 1-8 miles. (generally, few is meant to be more than one less than ten)
        But, it can also mean many. And there is the problem. If I said “quite a few miles” then we are talking “many” miles. In the sense of say 1600 miles lets say, “less than a few miles” could be 1 to 798 miles.
        Everyone can say what they want, but to actually give a number to that statement, or to “few”, is limiting your solve. If the poem tells you he walked 7 miles one way, then he walked 7 miles one way. If a searcher decides to define “few” as 1 or 2, and discount his 7 mile one way solve because of the definition he/she thinks “few” means, then they might throw away an actual solve that works. In other words, putting a number on these types of words, coming from Forrest, is a fools path.
        Think about the total miles f must have travelled. We know some of his trips were 1600 miles, even walking 100 or so miles in a trip, what would you consider “a few” miles in these situations? He words things like this but does not give one important piece of information. What was the total miles that he is talking about when he says he only walked less than a few? His trip could have started from home, then a long drive, and then less than a few miles of walking. That could still be a large number, but not too large. Common sense could keep that number low, but to “guess” at a number when thinking of few, well, all up to you. We cannot say TT is wrong if he says 1 mile, and we cannot say JDA is wrong if he says 5 miles. Both fall within the scope. I tend to use other ATF’s to actually tell me who is closer to the right answer. ( the one walking “long distances”)

        • Charlie;

          I think that we can put some bounds on a “few” though.

          If a “few” = 2 miles then 4 trips = 8 miles divided by 3 MPH (average walking speed) = 2.6 hours – one afternoon = 12:00 until 2:40 in the afternoon. – Easily doable

          If a “few” = 3 miles then 4 trips = 12 miles divided by 3 MPH = 4 hours – one afternoon = 12:00 until 4:00 in the afternoon. Doable but for a guy 79 – 80 Years old – ???

          If a “few” = 4 miles then 4 trips = 16 miles divided by 3 MPH = 5.3 hours – one afternoon = 12:00 until 5:20 in the afternoon – Still doable, but doubtful for an old guy – even Forrest.

          .If a “few” = 5 miles then 4 trips = 20 miles divided by 3 MPH = 6.6 hours – one afternoon = 12:00 until 6:40 in the afternoon. Time-wise doable – distance = doubtful ???

          Anything more than 5 miles puts it almost after dark.
          I personally think that if you factor in Forrest’s age – 79 to 80, that walking any distance greater than 10 to 12 miles would be pushing it.

          So, for my book I would say that hiking anything more than 3 miles one way would be pushing it, but as far as the clock goes, anything up to 5 miles one way MIGHT be doable. Anything more than that (to me) seems doubtful.

          Just how I see it – as an old 75 year old guy – JDA

        • Hi JDA/Charlie: I think even JDA’s list of possibilities is overly generous in terms of the total distance (and time) that Forrest walked. Consider his other statement: “If you can’t make two trips from your car to your solve in several hours, then don’t go.” So I would extend the low end of JDA’s examples — for instance, 1 mile is “less than a few miles”; so is half a mile. And when Forrest said he walked less than a few miles, he might not have been referring to one-way distance. Could have been one round-trip distance, or even the total distance he walked. I tend to believe it’s the latter.

          • 1 mile in and one mile back is 2 miles

            1 more in and one more back is 2 more.

            Equaling 4 miles just saying if it was just one mile to the Chests home.

          • Zap;

            I fully agree. My numbers allowed no “Hide” time, or resting time, or Just plain “Viewing” time.

            I am with you, I think that his “trail” distance is less than one mile. <1 mile there – Hide the pack with the gold, rest, take in the view get ready to return.
            <1 mile back to car. Take a break – eat a sandwich and a couple of Oreo's, drink a Grapette soda and put on new pack with chest inside.
            <1 mile back up the trail, take "Trinkets" out of pack #1, put them back in TC, spend a bit of time with each "trinket", thinking about their history etc. Secret Indulgence, do whatever is necessary to ensure it is not stumbled upon. Take in the view – all 360 degrees, remember the times spent here, and head back to your Sedan – smiling all the way – asking yourself – "Did I really just do this?" and
            LAUGH OUT LOUD at yourself – All in one afternoon. So, it's maybe 5:00 or even 6:00 (Summer, it could even be near 9:00) and the sun is still up – and you drive away… JM Ideas JDA

          • Travis – That’s why I said 3 X 4 = 12
            If it is 1 mile then 1 X 4 = 4 divided by 3 = 1.3 hours
            or one hour 20 minutes needed to walk from sedan to TC – and then back twice.

            No email, have you decided not to email me? That’s ok – up to you – JDA

          • Yes, I’m with Zap JDA, very generous. Zap also brings up a good point. There are ATF’s that come into play that must be addressed. And of course, reading them correctly. Which is tough enough considering most have two or three different ways they can be interpreted.
            I’d even add in there: thinning of air in the mountains, the terrain itself, obstacles, and elevation increase to name a few. (lol, “a few”). 3 miles an hour very generous, but not the point.
            The three of us could argue forever on distance, but the reality is, all three of us could be right. Or, we cannot argue the fact that nobody really knows except f. We don’t have the info, we can’t guess, so we really don’t know. The only thing I believe we could actually agree on is that f leaves his statements open to a mix of different ways to read into them.
            I was merely pointing out that we cannot limit ourselves because the masses think one way or another. Whatever the poem tells you, that’s what it is.
            It’s impossible to know for sure, or really even guess, like Zap said, we don’t know if he is referring to one way or round trip. From his home or from a spot where he parked the car.
            Also, there are other modes of transportation possible. Forrest is rich and resourceful, he could have taken one of those personal people movers or scooters up in the mountains, would that count as walking? Does his walking distance start when he leaves the car? Is he talking whole numbers when he refers to a few miles, meaning 1 or 2, or, is he including maybe 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile etc…?
            Between the three of us, I believe Zap would have the shortest distance, then JDA, then myself. All three distances having the info to back them up. We could argue the point of interpreting ATF’s, but truthfully, all would be right in the mind of the person making the point. So, when it comes down to it, reading into lines like “a few miles”, 500′, 200′, one afternoon, walking all or some of the clues, following all the clues in both trips and no shortcuts, smelling Pinyon nuts or pine needles, not going down a canyon twice, couple hours in two trips, solving two or maybe four clues but not knowing, not going alone but leaving your hiking partner in the car, etc…etc…etc… must be interpreted by a searchers own poem solve and not by what just seems to be the most likely answer.
            I have to say, although I could put a good argument together for a one way distance of 5 miles, it’s something that I am skeptical with. I don’t believe he made it to tough for himself, plus his age, and weight of what is being carried, etc…, and the fact that I made the walk and it sucks, to put it mildly, it all weighs into what I need to answer for. And that’s what’s important, to not only know/find/decipher the clues, but to also answer all the ATF’s that come into play. If you can’t tell me why he used the story on alligators, coins, a little of him in the chest, in the middle, and countless other possible scenarios, then it’s hard to see a viable solve. Picking and choosing will not work, and there must be a reason for the stories he did end up using in the book. He has tons of stories, so why these? With so many variables, I don’t think that even the person who finds the chest will know all the answers, or even a majority of them. We don’t even know when he hid the thing, so these posts that have been popping up about how searchers have solved for sure the blaze, or the walking distance, or how perfect their solve is, wwh, etc…just reminds me of every year around the same time. Just don’t feel like progress is “progressing”. I believe the ATF’s could be organized in a way to really narrow down a possible path, but not a spot. and guessing, like what seems to be the norm, while maybe sounding viable, is the rabbit hole to China. Now that would be too far to walk.

          • A very nice summation Charlie. Well stated. I wish you the very best this search season. Hope all of your numbers work out for you. Anaconda area was home to my first three solves. Never could get them to work – Always ended up on EPA land – Not good. Maybe you will have better luck – Take care and TRY to STAY SAFE – JDA

  32. TT,
    IMO there’s not a “human” trail close, but there’s a car trail (dirt road) within 500 feet and probably within 200 feet in elevation. 10,200 is a number… that’s all. The treasure is below 7000 feet in elevation ( sage and pine) .
    I agree the spot will be scenic in a spectacular way. And ff said he walked LESS than a few miles in total that day. The blaze is LARGE, can be found from the comfort of home, and will only reveal itself once you’ve completed the solve correctly through the first three clues.

    • MichaelD, a big problem with what you describe above is this; Sage grows in New Mexico at much higher elevation than it may in Montana, also tree line up north on mountains is much lower, therefore a pine tree might not exist at 10,200 in northern climes but in lower latitudes, like NM tree line is 11,000 to 12,000′ and Piñón Pine does not grow in Montana. ff did say Pinyon…right?

      No Pinyon pine grows in Montana or Wyoming. Feb 28, 2015
      “There’s one thing I told you I wish I had not ” ff…https://www.reddit.com/r/FindingFennsGold/comments/2xg1o1/theres_one_thing_i_told_you_i_wish_i_had_not/


      • i have one problem with this setting we did not get to hear every word Forrest said in this interview so its probably not worth wasting time on weather it was pinion smells or what ever it was i would like to hear every word he spoke in that interview over the interviewers head it went gone forever

        • FF used the word “or”, so the entire “pinon/pinyon/pinion” thing is
          trivial and not important to a good solve, in my opinion.

  33. OK, point taken…but even tossing out the 7000′ theory, what do you think of the rest?

    • I thought the rest was pretty good. My one thought would be that the blaze can be figured out from a mystery in the first stanza and before any clues are figured out.

      Otherwise it could be interpreted that clues are jumping other clues…if you know what I mean.

      I do feel that one clue is referenced again in another clue line but I see that as being different since it is referred to in another “distinct” form whereas the blaze isn’t in the blaze line, IMO.

      • I am with you fundamental design. Although, I feel the location can be zeroed in by the prose in the first stanza, which contributes to the idea of the blaze. I also do feel that one clue is referenced again in another hint. Actually it happens a couple times that hints/clues send you to the same location. The book verifies the details of the blaze even further IMHO.

  34. the reason for my last comment many of you know Im taking care of my mother she had a massive stroke that left her without the use of her left side of her body so we just sat down with the book and shes reading it to me now maybe i will hear what i missed love each other always

  35. McB, you could be right. I tend to believe HoB is the trap but I can see TFTW as a trap too.

    JDA, How do you have people all the way to clue 6 after FF mentioned they got 2 and maybe 4 clues correct? Is this based on your own solve?

    • Forrest has said that people have gotten 2 and maybe 4 correct, but I am sure he has not published something every time he becomes aware of a new clue being solved. My #6 may be Forrest’s #4 – Who knows?. Of course, what I have to say relates to MY solve – I only know mine, I do not know anyone else’s, and would not comment on someone else’s even if I did. – JDA

      • ”There have been a few people within 500′. I think there have been people within a couple hundred feet. They figure the first two clues, but they don’t get the third and fourth and they go right past the treasure chest.”

        he also has been quoted as saying “Some may have solved the first four clues, but I am not certain”

        I can only go on what FF has stated and am mostly speaking to making the decision that leads to getting closer than 200 feet. If someone got more clues than 4 than that wouldn’t that mean people should have gotten closer than 200 feet? That is unless drawing an X or some sort of triangulation, like Seeker has suggested, is the correct method.

          • Ken,

            How OLD is that statement? Days x number of searchers = Odds are -someone- has been within 200 feet. Odds are that they “knew they were there” by now. Odds are that ff knows that…

            Odds are, there is another reason that the trove has not been retrieved. Odds are a whole new level of “security” covers the chest. Perhaps, it is secured by an Ethical Dilemma…

          • Ethical Dilemma…last time Fenn said that 5/18/17.
            That has held firm since he first said it. I may have missed a later comment…but I doubt it.
            So…odds are…it still holds true.

          • EthicalDilemma ~’Odds are a whole new level of “security” covers the chest. Perhaps, it is secured by an Ethical Dilemma…’

            I’m curious on what you mean by ‘ethical’?
            Morals? { I have morals. There low, but I have them }.

            You said ~’Odds are, there is another reason that the trove has not been retrieved…’

            I agree with ken that, no one obviously knew much of anything. fenn hasn’t changed his position on that comment since the first comment. What could possible stop a searcher from retrieving the chest if they ‘knew they were there’ and located it?

          • the reason the chest has not been retrieved?
            because the poem says to take it. thats why.
            i guess that only makes sense to anyone as dumb as me. lol

          • Ethical Dilemma…I was not going to comment on your theory of “security”…however…I’ll add that I agree there is a good reason why the treasure has not been found.
            I don’t believe there is an “ethical dilemma” involved. No subterfuge…just many failures to crack the clues beyond where they have been for years. I also believe that this will ring true in the coming days and weeks.

          • Ken,

            Subterfuge would be deceit and certainly not what I am saying. Nothing deceitful about security. Essentially everything that we know to be of value and where it is located is protected/hidden along with an adequate level of security.

            An Ethical Dilemma would be a unique and excellent way to secure something of value and in a very creative way. Example: (totally hypothetical) Under the sacred rock where Sitting Bull taught his son to clean fish and give thanks…(not far but too far to walk)…just inside the reservation. That would be an Ethical Dilemma.

            Regarding odds that ff knows someone has been much close than 200′ to the trove or that it “felt the vibration of hiking boots.” You are doubtful, I am confident and only time will tell.

            Forrest will always say, “…but I don’t know for sure,” until the Ethical Dilemma is resolved and an announcement made. All IMHO.

          • Ethical D.
            Sure sounds like some sort of legal issue to me…if your idea is similar to your example. I entertained some of those ideas early on…and even acted on some. Not smart for a lot of reasons. I do not believe Fenn would want any searcher to be put in a predicament, nor do I believe he would want to be remembered that way. You are not the first searcher to think along those lines…go back in the archives…tons of stories/escapades told by many. Careful looking over your shoulder in the Rockies!

          • Seeker,

            I gave a fictitious example. The rest is up to the searcher and the Seeker to solve.

        • Aaron;

          Look at “Forrest Gets Mail – 9”

          “Are there signs that people are getting closer to solving your puzzle? How many clues have people solved now?
          Searchers have come within about 200 feet. Some may have solved the first four clues, but I am not certain.” JDA

      • Has anyone give it any thought that maybe there hasn’t been any searches within 500’ or even 200’ of the Chest, That he has thrown that out as a clue. Not to say he was being dishonest but maybe to give a little more direction. He is sneaky like that and heck who would know. Just like he says he never said it was or wasn’t buried but hidden. What are your thoughts on this

        • TB,

          What I’ve been doing 8 hours a day in the last two months:

          Study “EVERYTHING” about the hunt from the beginning.

          Take a look at the TTOTC and TFTW books. (not about the stories in the books, forget the stories, they distract you)

          Ask why there are such books.

          Question the intentions of each FF tip.

          Watch the interviews, do not just read FAQs.

          Read “EVERYTHING” you find here at HoD.

          Search for audio interviews.

          Q & As with FF.

          >>>>> Compile dates, places, events, people involved, etc …

          See the “Whiteboard.” “EVERYTHING” what your head can achieve.

          Enter FF’s head and try to put yourself in his place.

          I guarantee you will be surprised how much you will discover.

          Of how easy it is to imagine “where” is the chest.

          • Smart. Yep def a way to look at it. But IMO “every” I mean every story in the books has a meaning every single one of them!

        • JDA.

          Ok, well I’m opinionated. Guess you can consider that all an opinion.

          Hope that helps alleviate any confusion. Wasn’t meant to be confusing. Rather pragmatic.

        • Kal,

          Late June, early July. I’ve been hampered by having too many people at my work having seniority and picking the vacation weeks ahead of me. I hope the chest is still there when I get time to travel.

          How about you?


        • JDA,

          I’m maybe a little slow on the uptake sometimes. Ha! Now that you mention it, I do seem to recall seeing that once upon a time.

          Guess it only took me six years to formulate where to go ‘looking’ for the chest.

          *You’re not far, but too far to walk.


        • My thoughts include this: Any good pilot is an “ace at trig” . (Who — besides me — understands what I’m hinting at here?) A pilot such as FF knows that 200′ may NOT NECESSARILY mean 200 feet.

          Most living persons are searchers. We search for a spoon or pen, etc. So if FF says that a searcher has been within ten
          feet of the treasure, he may be talking about himself, Doug Preston, or Peggy. FF didn’t wheel and deal himself into
          becoming a millionaire by being lame-brained.

          In order to purposefully (while primarily focusing one’s attentions on searching for the FF treasure chest)
          get within 500 actual feet of it by following the solution to the
          poem that is in TTOTC, one must employ (or have employed) at least 8 correctly-solved clues.

          If you haven’t looked up “halt” in a dictionary, why not? If you
          are serious enough to solve more than one or two clues of
          the poem, you should (as a pilot would say) “get on the stick”.

          The above is all part of my opinion. Yours may diFFer.

          • You lost me at “ace at trig”. Lol.

            When I was naive and didn’t know what I was doing I tried numerous different solve methods. One of which put a solve near Virginia City Montana. I simply mapped a key word and the numerical sequence gave me the location. Oddly enough there was a prominent ‘Brown’ feature located there also. And maybe that’s the location, but it just didn’t seem to meet expectation to the poem. So I wrote it off. Not sure where I was going with that.

          • I know exactly what you’re talking about.
            45 completions under my belt.

        • Travis,

          Picking up my stick to beat the dead horse…

          For whatever reason, the 200/500 foot club has many of us intrigued, as we want to know if we are a member or not. I know I am not, as I have no BOTG in the Rockies yet.

          But, something else has occurred to me as I turn this problem over in my mind in relation to my solve of the poem. There is another possibility that came to me last night as I was working on my chainsaw in the garage (rebuilding the carb). What if the hidey spot is closer to where you park and WWWH is further away from the car than Indulgence is. Basically, could the clues be wanting you to “double-back”? And, if that is so, perhaps there are some things Mr. Fenn wants the finder to see – other than simple recognition of the desired clue at hand? What if the whole poem is about a “look back” on his life’s journey? Could it be analogous? Is the “area of Indulgence” is resting be where he wants to lay down and die, not just a small spot on top of the chest?

          All that to say, I can see why Mr. Fenn has things like, “folks just walk on past”, because they have taken the wrong tangent when they are at WWWH. Instead of heading back towards the parking spot, they head for the hills, as they say.

          I don’t have answers, more just thinking out loud – hope nobody minds too terrible much. Thanx for reading.

          All is my opinion,

          • Swwot;

            An interesting idea. My only question is, “Where in the poem does it give any indication to double back”?

            I just do not see a logical place for that to happen. You may read it differently though – JDA

          • Swwot: I think your ponderings will ultimately turn out to be closer to the truth than most theories that are advanced here. While I don’t think there is any true “doubling back” involved in following the clues (Forrest has said no to “switching back”), I’m pretty confident that the route is significantly non-linear, such that during the course of following the clues you will not always be getting physically closer to the chest each step of the way.

            But to answer your question, JDA, here’s a candidate location in the poem: “The end is ever drawing nigh.” Perhaps prior to this point in the poem, the end *isn’t* continuously getting closer, but from that point on it is.

          • You’re good Zap!

            JDA, he’s got the idea. As I puzzle it out, I am wondering if the end is ever drawing nigh had something to do with a directional shift, or something along the lines of “hump day” – Wednesday – where you’re going up hill and then down hill during the week. Or that as you age, there is a moment when you are at your peak physically, and then you start to tail off until you expire. That kind of thought.

            Thanx for your input folks!

          • Like your drawing an X on a map…. a starting point, 3 destinations, 1 intersection. Not every clue is a destination point. Look quickly down at the intersection on the map.

          • Travis- You said, “What if the hidey spot is closer to where you park and WWWH is further away” I think you could be right.

            Someone years ago pointed out a writing technique that Fenn uses. I’m not sure what its called because I don’t recall. Maybe someone here knows what it is. p 26 TTOTC. Fenn said, “Fortunately, I was the only one in the class who knew the trick, the sliding I mean, . . .”

            What is that called when he says something followed by a comma and then he refers back to it with another clause in the same sentence? I think the poem is written in the same style.

            Let me illustrate how this may apply to the poem.
            “Begin it where warm waters halt, and take it in the canyon down, Not far but too far to walk. Put in below the home of Brown.”

            Now I believe “it” is a waterway (creek, stream, etc). I think that that most folks read it to mean that we should begin “it” and follow “it” into the canyon down. But, can anyone say for certainty that “Put in below the home of Brown” is where we begin “it” or whether home of “Brown” is in the canyon down?

            I think HOB is the ending place. I think Fenn is outlining briefly that the starting point is WWWH, and that we follow the water (or the dry paths that were molded by water” which go to the canyon down. In this case, I believe down means a grassy area like a naturally occuring fen which is the HOB. (home of brown dirt and capitalized because it is the imaginary home of Forrest Fenn)

            Now he goes on to say, “From there its no place for the meek. . . ” From where? From WWWH? From HOB backtracking the other way?

            Can anyone answer this for sure? I doubt it. But, I suspect that most people are readig it wrong.

          • Flutterby,


            I can, but I can not. I would be giving you the address of the chest.

            “Just” IMO

      • JDA

        believe he said that back in 2015?

        If folks had it dialed three years ago then why hasn’t it been found? Just questions you have to ask yourself.

        • Sorry Kal – I went up thread, but could not find what you were referencing that Forrest said 3 years ago. Can you help me out? – Sorry I can’t make the connection. – JDA

          • My apologies, posting from my phone.

            Reference to the possibly 4 clues being solved.

          • 4 out of 9 still leaves the majority unsolved.
            For me, that still leaves #5 – “The end is ever drawing nigh.”
            #6 – “There’ll be no paddle up your creek.”
            #7 – Just heavy loads and water high.”
            #8 “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, Look quickly down your quest to cease.”
            and #9 – “But tarry scant with marvel gaze, Just take the chest and go in peace.”

            These five seem pretty difficult to me, so even IF the first four were solved three years ago, it does not surprise me that the remaining 5 remain unsolved… and we do not know how many of these five HAVE been solved, but Forrest has chosen not to disclose the fact that they have been solved, if Forrest knows. JMO – JDA

    • Aaron, just my opinions:

      HoB is something that, if you * understand the WWWH, you will already know what it is the moment you set your eyes on the correct / right map (the connection will be automatic).

      __ “UNDERSTAND”, why you will not see her the way you expect.

      The whole problem is:

      “If I already know what HoB is, where do I use TFTW? As far as I go, or: where do I come from, which way side do I go?”

      I’m of the opinion that: some found WWWH, but with a misconception, and by accident they were at the site of the first two clues. Passing 500 feet from the chest.

      TFTW has important function (trap) in the sentence, but it depends on you to understand the connection between WWWH and CD.

      The 200-foot researcher, who “supposedly” deciphered the first two clues, erred exactly at this point. He did not understand the WWWH and much less TFTW.

      And if someone found “right” up to the fourth lane (which I find somewhat difficult, due to the TFTW complications), he probably went in the opposite direction to the direction the poem suggests, passing 500 feet from the chest, on the wrong side.

      Oh, it’s not because the poem says “up” that you should “up”. OK?

      Just, and “just my opinion”.

      • I understand what you are saying. And it falls in line with the theory that the searcher(s) closest to the chest got lucky with their selection of WWWH and happened to get CD correct but left the poem from there.

      • Flutterby… smart. And “JDA” IMO yes I am going to say humbly you are correct. Use landmarks to make your right and left turns. IMO he gives us every single direction to go up down left right. Love the thought process there.

      • McB I’ll bite, the 200’ searcher(s) did not go there based on clues.(I’m not saying if there was more than one) They were just randomly checking an area. At least in my opinion. I can recall who and when, I still doubt they realize it.

        For the other 500’ club they played a hunch. Just happened to get WWWH. But didn’t understand the poem. All my opinion of course.


  36. McB, if TFTW is the trap then would you surmise that the failed searchers have had an alternate and incorrect predetermined HoB?

  37. Change of subject …

    Recently, I heard on the radio that Major Ed Dames is going to retire this year (after September 2018). He is a very popular “Remote Viewing Instructor”. He stated that one of his retirement goals is to use his remote viewing skills to find Forrest Fenn’s treasure.


    There’s only a few months left to figure this out! 🙂

    Best of luck to everyone.


  38. I’m pretty sure I have 2-1/2 clues completely solved. Just 6-1/2 to go now.

  39. “Important Literature” Why is it “Important”? Well it starts on Page 9? It was raining at Borders Books, I think he just sprinkled that Border stuff in there, but to be true to his “Life is a game of poker” statement Forrest begins to “spin a yarn” and he feels so comfortable doing it. The Hemingway and Fitzgerald Books, who everyone looks up to, were just objects for him to poke satire at, and he blatantly mislead us into thinking they were just average to boring, but when he was asked who his favorite author was he mentioned Hemingway? Then ff goes on to even misrepresent the setting in “For Whom the Bell Tolls” as WWI, not the Spanish Revolution?

    If “Life is a game of poker, Happiness is the pot. Fate deals you four cards and a joker, And you play whether you like it or not” then IMO there is something in that chapter of “The Thrill Book” that is a Key, and we need to focus on it.

    IMO Border Line Biddies is sprinkled in there just about like salt on a bird’s tail, and at least the marker of “Forrest being, the “Howeka”, or “Heyoka” shows up as the joker, and each time something important or a hint is given, there is a very old tradition in Native American cultures about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heyoka.

    Does ff revere, hold native american lore in high esteem?


    • Tom Terrific- I think that every time FF has quoted a famous author, he has carefully chosen the quote to hint about where the treasure chest is hidden. I think that it is very important that he mentions that it was raining on the two days when he was in the bookstore. I think it is one of very many hints that WWWH is in a cloud and that the clues guide us along the journey of water over many years.

      I believe FF writes about JD Salinger’s book Catcher in the Rye because it is a strong clue as to where the chest is hidden. The title Catcher in the Rye suggests a grassy field. He compares his own life to JD Salinger’s book. He says,

      “Admittedly the places in JD’s book were different from mine and the names were differnt and the time was differet from mine, and the schools I never heard about were obviously different, but other than that it was my very own story line.”

      FF said, “If you really want to hear about it, the first thing you’ll probably want to know is where I was born, and what my lousy chldhood was like and how my parents were occupied and all before they had me” But, he said he didn’t feel like going into it. And so I think he just skipped right over where he was “born” (imaginitively speaking), a Forest Fen.

      I think the poem goes into it. I think the poem is leading us to what FF imagines is his “home”. On p 23, Jump-Start teh Learning Curve, FF says, “No matter what I lacked or lost, bad grades and all, they couldn’t take away my name.” I think this suggests that he sees himself as a Forest Fen.

      I think an important clue to the hiding place, and to FF’s imagined “home” can be found in the quote on p 14 where he quotes from the book Kismet. He had already mentioned that the story was about a guy who was always picking pockets. I believe this is very symbolic of the fact that FF is a collector. He collects items that once were personal posessions of people who lived long ago; like picking pockets. But, then he goes on to quote a line from the story, “To the Caliph I am dirt, but to the dirt I am a Caliph”

      It is my belief that FF is hinting that his home, and the home of the treasure chests is an actual Forest Fen. I didn’t know what a Forest Fen was, but I did some looking. Merriam Webster dictionary says a Fen is low land that is covered wholly or partly with water unless artificially drained and that usually has peaty alkaline soil and characteristic flora. (think ‘in the canyon down’ in which down is a grassy hill or flatland. A fen looks like a grassy hill or flatland. I’ve been reading up on Fens and it is quite interesting. Fen was proud of his name and it was important to him. I believe he has chosen the hiding spot, of a natural Forest Fen, and I think the quotes he uses througout TTOTC support this idea.

      The quote about Caliph and dirt certainly fits with the idea that the hiding place could be a place where dirt is. In fact, Fens are wetlands that are thousands of years old and are filled with peat, or DIRT (see Caliph quote). They are special because they are independant ecosystems that provide a home to unique and specialized plants that don’t grow in other places.

      So I believe that when FF finished reading Catcher in the Rye and tossed it into the garbage where it landed on top of Time magazine, that it is symbolic of a Fen built up over thousands of years to develop a rich peat where specialized plants can grow. More than once in TTOTC we read about tall grasses in the cemetery, while watching the gypsies, and over the soldiers grave. All of these mentions fit with the title of Catcher in the Rye which I believe symbolizes the lifetime of a natural Forest Fen.

      On p 15, FF says that “sooner or later each of us will be nothing but the leftovers of history or an asterick in a book that was never written. A Fen is the leftovers of history. I believe this quote is a hint that we are looking for a Fen.

      I believe that FF’s description of the first jobs he held are really the story of how a Fen is created in nature; rocks get worn down (grinding marbles), kettle formations are caused by melting ice from glaciers (pot holes on Canyon Street & dishwashing the kettles at Totem cafe), eventually the landscape changes and the Fen begins.

      p 70, Stout Hearted Men, FF quotes a son the cadets sang. It talks about stout-hearted men, shoulder to shoulder, and bolder and bolder. I think it represents the creation of kettle formations and bolders carved by ice, and water over a long time.

      On p 102, My War for Me, FF quotes Longfellow. “Lives of great men all remind us we can make our lives sublime and departing, leave behind us, footprints in the sands of time.” I believe FF feels that a natural Forest Fen is symbolic of his own life which has accomplished so much but once departed, only leaves behind footprints.

      And then on the same page he says, “The fun side is that it really doesn’t matter who we are if we are someone to ourselves. This really fits with the idea that if he had nothing else, he had his name and a Forest Fen is something important.

      Its a bit off topic of quotes, but on p 129, FF tells us that he placed the treasure in a Romaneque Lock Box that may have been a Book of Days. How significant if his hiding place is a Forest Fen that has existed for thousands of years and will carry onward existing long into the future.

      Perhaps my favorite quote in the whole book is found on p 133 when FF talks about Captain Kidd. He tells us that Captain Kidd went looking for Gardiners Islands. It occured to me that a Fen is a “Gardiners Island”

      I really believe that the quotes FF offers up in his dialogue are hints to the place the chest is hidden

      • Flitterby
        I think are on to something. Everything you commented on , to me anyway, has merit. These comments are very insightful and I also think are pertinent. I know of a forest fen that is associated with a HOB. If you would like to discuss this on the side mail me at timrawa@yahoo.com. I am not interested in mooching but contributing. You shared some excellent insight here so I will share what I have first.

    • Tom, there is a lot of oddities in this chapter. My biggest take from it was Fenn’s attitude about things. Being embarrassed in the bookstore. Not being happy about standing in line. His attitude toward the books. Just by reading other stories we can tell this is not like him. He is trying to tell us something IMO.

      • Aaron –

        Fenn tells stories. For me there is no reason to believe that Forrest Fenn has ever been in a Borders book store. To be honest I doubt he has ever bought a book, off campus, that didn’t benefit him directly. He said in an interview last year that he has no idea if it was raining.

        Many chasers, then, have a tendency to assign meaning to the story. They ask Why does Fenn mention the rain? I do not.

        I think Fenn may be a melancho-holic.


        • Lug, I have no doubt the entire chapter was fiction and that he had a reason for writing an entirely fictional chapter. There is likely he did it at the beginning of the book and that his attitude does not mirror how he feels about everything else that happens to him.

          Probably the most important part of this chapter is the talk of great books and authors. He may be telling us to pay attention to his writing style in this chapter as compared to the rest of the book. Something along that lines.

          Also, rain and borders have something to do with something no doubt.

          • I’m with you Aaron – I think this chapter is about HOW he writes, not what he writes. IMO there are certain stories/chapters that stand out, more so than others, and in ways that are difficult to see, you just feel something weird about them…$17/sq in, flywater and my war 4 me are my big 3 IMO…now here is something I’ll add to this point about books and FF’s reverence for them: think about how he talks about book bindings, the SBs about finding first editions, etc. IMO he is telling us that books are very important…so why? IMO he views his books as his true legacy (why include his memoir when TTOTC is his memoir and contains the poem that started all of this???)…they may not last 1000 years, but surely some will last more than 100. I’m not suggesting you need his other books to solve the poem, rather, READING is the key (not key word/word that is key), but that if we don’t read and learn we may not have enough to go on. So then you all chime in WHAT ABOUT THE ATF ‘no specialized knowledge’? I think there is wiggle room there because of the word ‘specialized’:
            requiring or involving detailed and specific knowledge or training.
            “skilled treatment for these patients is very specialized”
            •concentrating on a small area of a subject.
            “periodicals have become more and more specialized”
            •designed for a particular purpose.
            “specialized software”
            For me, specialized knowledge is either redundant (see first definition) or that FF was saying you don’t need to be an expert to be knowledgeable. So for me, reading histories of places, learning about the stories of the people that lived a certain way, during certain periods, in wild places is not only interesting, but can be informative (those ‘aha’ moments). I just got my books back last week and have been reviewing them again…I’m no closer to a solve, but imagination and him telling us to read, re-read, rinse repeat has me thinking a lot harder about his books lately. Good luck out there.

          • Tbug, Aaron, all

            I’ve been saying,

            “Understand” Read, think and “imagine.” Make connections inside your head.

            Think of ideas rather than just words.

            Put “time” as the judge of every idea you have.

            Start in 1988 and conclude in October 2010.

            Just the advice of a friend – despite competing too. : )

        • If the story is made up, would that not be deliberate-?- regardless of where its place in the book?
          The book is of his memoirs; embellish, elaborated, enhancing a story is one thing… to intentionally make it up is another.

          If that were the case, many of the stories could be fiction, and almost every Q&A, SB, interview would fall to the same… if not to just keep the fictional/imaginary stories straight, right?

    • Hints! Hints here! Get yer hints here!

      Guess I’ve been to enough baseball parks seeing beer being hawked… 🙂

      In my opinion….

    • Searchers, IMO I found something to think:

      “Four cards and a joker.” “Happiness is the pot.”

      “Four clues and one important clue.” “Reward is the chest.”

      “Four points and an indication / resolution.” “At the end is the gold.”

      What is the fifth location clue in the poem?

        • Thank you McB – Something must have gotten messes up in translation 🙂 – JDA

          • JDA,

            Just IMO

            In the game of the hunt we have 4 cards and the joker.

            Four cards = Four first clues.

            The joker is the fifth clue, and it’s special.

            The joker can lead to the final location of the game.

            So if the end is near, and this “end” of the game leads to the pot, we will have the local NPIYC, HL and WH. Being wise = Blaze.

            As we look down we will see “the end”. So we’ll be looking where we’ve been and we’ll be amazed.

            Then the importance of the fifth clue (joker) that leads to the place of the Chest (pot).

            That would also explain the 200/500 feet.


      • McB… you forgot the most important part of that …. “and you PLAY whether you like it or not”..

        IMHO you cant leave anything out. you are right about the “JOKER” aspect of it all. the 5th and final part ties it all in.

        • James,

          “and you PLAY whether you like it or not”

          I considered this phrase thus: “and you follow your solution, whether it is right or not.”

  40. Hi Everyone,

    Im commenting here as I dont know how to start a new thread, I have just seen on YouTube yet another ‘New’ video from a couple of guys called “Men are so smart’ and they claim that a “Pro Team” their words not mine had been employed to find Fenns Treasure and they apparently solved it at the end of last season but were to late to claim it before the bad weather………..

    !, How true do you think this is?

    2, If true do you feel its unfair on all of us ‘Normal’ hunters that a ‘Pro Team’ has been employed, do you not think it spoils what FF was trying to achieve by getting families out in the mountains and NOT ‘Pro Teams’?

    I would like to know your thoughts as I am preparing for BOTG this season and will be travelling from the UK, personally I think it is unfair as it kinda “Stains’ the chase, I mean any rich millionaire could employ top map readers and problem solvers dont you think? I hate what people will do for money and how divisive they can be to get it, I dont think FF will be happy if they do find it, going by his statement that he would like a truck driver with kids to find it, by that he obviously meant a ‘Normal’ Man/ Woman to find it not a ‘Pro Team’………Thoughts please?

    Thank You.

    • Hi Butch;

      Anyone (millionaire or what-ever) can hire and “Expert” or team of them to do ANYTHING!. I can claim to be an expert, get hired, and accomplish little more than I have already accomplished.

      A year or so ago a team of folks got together and used a program that they said would get them to the treasure. They eliminated all land below 5,000′ and all land above 10,200. They eliminated all land that was not part of a drainage system – etc. etc. etc. Their final result? Probably around Yellowstone somewhere. Same conclusion hundreds of searchers have come to – (I am not one of them). So, what good did all of their scientific data crunching do? Not a great deal.

      What good will this “Pro Team” accomplish? Probably not much.

      Is it fair? What is fair in a treasure hunt? Some will say that anything is fair. Forrest has set the rules, and last time I read them I saw nothing about not being able to use whatever tools you think will work.

      Do I like it? Well in a way I do. Why? Because when I find indulgence I can say that not only did I do what 350,000 other people couldn’t – I also beat the “Pro’s” – Just kidding of course – 🙂 JDA

      • Thank you JDA,

        Just a bit frustrated because like everyone on here I know my solve is right IMO so if I get beaten to it by a pro team I won’t be happy, the fact that im coming from the UK must show how sure I am, I sent FF my solve anyway so its been ‘Time stamped’ even if I do get beaten to it. 🙂

        • Butch,

          I understand you sentiments. I didn’t watch the video so I am making an assumption that when you say “employed” that implies that someone has hired people out. It does sadden me to think that someone would hire a pro team. This chase isn’t about the treasure- it is so much more than that. If you are “hiring” a team to do research and physical searching for you without doing anything yourself, you are missing the boat and the real treasure, entirely.

          I understand people who are disabled and need someone else to search/retrieve the treasure. I understand people teaming up and sharing thoughts and resources as Aaron has suggested. IMO, outside of those things, paying someone to do it for you is just wrong. I also understand life isn’t fair, so in the end, like many above, I say bring it! 🙂

        • Hi Butch,

          If there’s one thing for sure, every year many people crow that they know exactly where the TC is, they’re consulting their attorney/banker/movie studios, and so far…. nada.

          I don’t believe a “pro team” is going to find ff’s TC. It takes WAY too many hours (!), and whomever hired them would have to pay out $2 million sooner than the “pros” would find it. LOL.

    • Butch,
      LOL… you saw on a ‘youtube video’???

      You asked for our thoughts… my first thought is:
      What’s is normal?
      Have you read the blogs and what some folks do / have done for a living, their hobbies… Some here claim to be just that, treasure hunters, there’s a park ranger in the chase, retired police officers, people who dive for shipwreck treasures, etc etc. Do they have an advantage?
      What’s the point about complaining who find the treasure? I thought everyone has the same opportunity… no matter what walks of life they come from.
      Do you think fenn should have put a disclaimer of the chase… ‘Professionals not need to apply’
      My Thought?………… “Overthinking lead to negative thoughts”
      I gotta run now, I have a date with a french model I saw on youtube…

    • Butch-
      answers to your questions…
      1. yes, true. this pro team will indeed find the treasure.
      2. it is fair to everyone and no, it doesnt spoil the fun. because although this “pro team” will find the treasure (like everyone else) they will not find the chest.

      3. i think.

    • Hi, Butch.

      I agree with what JDA wrote above. Don’t let anyone psyche you out from planning a trip yourself this season if that is what you are considering right now. There’s no such thing as a “Pro Team” with respect to the Chase. Whoever finds it will have earned it, whatever their methodology.

      Happy Hunting!

      • Thank you Blex, I will be making the journey, I wouldn’t be able to sleep if I didn’t complete my solve.

        • Butch – so many have claimed they found the spot and either they couldn’t get it right away for various reasons or that someone else beat them to it…take it for what it is…a stupid video on the internet…until they show us the chest they are probably wrong…ditto to what others said, if you’re confident go for it, but also, be practical – that’s a lot of $ for a vacation…just saying, step back, have others look at your solve, second guess everything…8 years of confidence have only nice photos and worn boots to show for it (and yes I think getting to do it is still exciting/admirable and you should, just don’t be bummed if it ain’t there, that’s all!) OK, good luck and please share when you get done…fyi WY/MT had high snow pack this year, so the melt is getting high (flooding in Missoula), if I were doing BOTG this year, I would not go until mid July at the earliest…look up river flows, anything over 300 cu ft/sec is potentially dangerous (IMO).

          • Tbug,

            Thank you for your kind words and solid advice, its very kind of you, I did read the snow pack was one of the highest on record this year and I will keeping that in mind.

    • Butch, there are no rules in this chase. People should absolutely try and employ any methods that they have the means to so with if they want to find it. I have gone on record as saying it may take a team to find it. I don’t know that a team of so called “pro’s” would have more of a chance than searchers that have been searching for years. It will take a certain type of thinking to find it and if members of this group collectively muster the correct intellectual make up then they stand a chance. If odds count for anything though then they will not.

    • There is no pro team that can solve this with just geography. That would mean searching every little pond every little rivulet every little ridge every little nook and cranny within 5000’ and 10200’ good luck.. without knowing what the Blaze is they have no chance. Toss the dice. It’s boots on the ground research research research. And a little mountain man wisdom. Is what is going to find it!

      • Travis;

        Yesterday you said that you are a very opinionated person – true, but there is a “rule” about presenting those opinions as fact – I assume you are aware of that rule, but just like breaking it – and that is MY opinion.

        There is no pro team that can solve this with just geography. – Your Opinion – not a proven fact.
        That would mean searching every little pond every little rivulet every little ridge every little nook and cranny within 5000’ and 10200’ good luck. Your Opinion – not a fact
        . without knowing what the Blaze is they have no chance. Your Opinion – again not a proven fact.
        Toss the dice. It’s boots on the ground research research research. And a little mountain man wisdom. Is what is going to find it! – Again YOUR OPINION and this is MY opinion – JDA

        • I stand corrected forgive me. Apologizes.. yes of course all the above is Just my Opinion.

          IMO. Without the Blaze there is no chest. So with that said. I will lean against that.

          Travis Brown
          “Kettle Corn”

          • Thanks again – Darned rules anyway – But they do eliminate confusion and such – Have a GREAT day Travis, and Happy Hunting – 🙂 JDA

    • Butch,

      Others have noted before that this is not a team “sport”. Some “one” is fronting the costs and has hired the minions to do his or her bidding. I doubt this will be “successful” because the costs outweigh the reward – little or no return on investment. It is my opinion that this “pro team” will fail, in part because a committee doesn’t do well when it comes to intuition. I think we all know being a professional simply means you are being paid for your services. I suspect others will also chime in concerning this “pro team”.

      • swwot…no point in even thinking about it really. My only curiosity would be who these “pros” are. I can’t wait to hear….

        • Ken, apparently they are from Treasure Chasers website, I looked on there and it says they made the discovery last season but were to late to claim it because of the bad weather.

          • Butch,

            Definition of professional for English Language Learners
            : someone who does a job that requires special training, education, or skill : someone who is a member of a profession
            : someone who is paid to participate in a sport or activity
            : someone who has a lot of experience or skill in a particular job or activity

            By definition, would you consider yourself a professional when it comes to the chase?
            Would Dal’s whole blog be considered professionals when it comes to the chase?
            Is anybody really a professional when it comes to Forrest Fenn?
            Has anybody to an extent really done something like this to give a possible clue on how to solve the poem?
            When it comes to the chase, there are no professionals. The closest you can come to a team of professionals is by the contributions made on the blogs. Nobody except Forrest knows more about the chase then the hundreds of people that contribute their ideas, their research, there trips, their failures, and their knowledge regarding the chase on the blogs. In other words, they are full of it.
            They had to start, just like everyone else, they have the same info, they have the same means, they have the same tech, so basically they are the same as any of us. I think f would have thought about all this. Whatever you saw was what we are all use to every year regarding the chase.
            We/I know where it is but it’s been moved, the weather, someone already found, we/I can’t reach it, whatever the story, it’s just excuses, and it’s what these pros are saying. You can retrieve in any weather, if they were hired by me, I’d tell them I don’t care, go get it.
            This team is just full of themselves and that’s it. They think they are smarter then everyone else by using excuses. There is no pro team other then the many of selfless contributors within the blogs you read about everyday.
            The UK is pretty far, I hope you are prepared for failure, just in case. Hopefully you make the trip thinking a very fun vacation, and that the chest is just a side note. If you find it, all a great time. If you don’t, still a great time. Goode luck…

          • I’m quaking in my boots, since how would I be able to compete with “pros”. It sounds like the only pros that this person hired were a spin doctor and a video producer.

            Ken, when they said “it says they made the discovery last season but were to late to claim it because of the bad weather” that gives you their first excuse. I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for their second.

            Just another attempt to discourage others from searching, IMO.

      • Totally reminds me of that rich kid in Willie Wonka with a factory of workers opening candy bar wrappers looking for the golden ticket.

  41. Remember the story of Fenn in the bookstore on the raining day looking for something to read? He talked to the sale clerk who apparently was a young lady. As he was talking to her, she lifted her coffee cup and Fenn described how it almost completely covered her face.

    Interesting piece of information that I discovered just recently. Turns out that there is a town in Wyoming that is so close to the Cloud Peak in Cloud Peak Wilderness, that you cannot see the peak at all in most parts of the town. Has anyone ever heard of this place? Since I believe strongly that the description of WWWH is talking about a cloud, I think it is entirely possible that the story of the sales clerk is illustrating the fact that in this town, you cannot see the most prominent peak in the whole state.

    The story was repeated in a slightly different way in My War For Me. Fenn was discribing how he was sitting in the helicopter and nervously moving his helmet from one hand to the other. In the process, he noticed that at one point, his thumb blocked Philadelphia on the map. It seemed to really bother him that something so simple as moving his thumb into a certain position could block out all of a city filled with people as if they didnt exist at all.

    I really can’t help but think that this little town where you cannot see Cloud Peak from the town because it is too close, is what Fenn’s illustrations were actually alluding to. This town has a lot more going for it than just that. Its sitting right near a place called Fertig Draw, which translates in Spanish (Miss Ford taught Spanish). Fertig means “finished” So this place then is finished draw or possibly “end is ever drawing near”

    Has anyone looked at these two places? I’m going in a few days.

    • Hi FB, it looks like as good as a location as any other. The reasons you listed sound logical enough to look into deeper.

      Good luck!

    • FB,

      Your story about the helicopter is not accurate when F used his thumb. F was flying a jet when he did the thumb thing. The helicopter was when F went to an area that he saw on occassion in Viet Nam that reminded him of a paradise with a waterfall, just before he left Veit Nam.

      Just an observation of mine. 🙂

      • CharlieM- You are right. I confused the two stories. But, the end result was that his thumb covered up Philadelphia. So the reason I brought attention to this story is that it really is the same as the story in the bookstore where the sales clerk’s coffee cup almost completely covered her face.

        The town of TenSleep Wyoming is a place so close to Cloud Peak that you cannot see the Peak from most places in town even though it is the tallest peak in Wyoming. I think this is significant.

        Fenn has said, “It doesn’t matter who you are. It only matters who they think you are”.

        I believe that Fenn tells stories that lead us to believe he said one thing, when he is talking about something completely different. Like a story within a story. On the surface, Fenn is sitting somewhere moving his helmet from one hand to the other. Actually it doesn’t matter where he is sitting. Could have been told with him in a barber shop or a grocery story, or a helicopter or a jet.

        The point I’m making is that the story leads us to think he is one place when in his imagination he is somewher or something else. So when he describes this situation with his thumb covering Philadelphia, is he talking about being on the jet/ helicopter/ whatever, or is he really illustrating a unique place like Ten sleep where you can stand in a town and not see the largest peak in all of Wyoming?

        Look at another illustration that talks about the exact same thing in my opinion. Fenn was in class and Miss Ford asked if he was sleeping. He said he was not and she claimed his eyes were closed. He said that actually it was his eyelids that were closed and that his eyes were open.

        Now consider how this situation compares with the town of TenSleep where you cannot see the largest Peak in all of Wyoming. Is it because your eyes are closed? No! It is because your eyes are open but, symbolically your lids are closed. You are unable to see the peak even though its right there. It is blocked from your view.

        I believe WWWH is Cloud Peak. I also believe that we are looking below Cloud Peak (outside the protected Cloud Peak wilderness where we couldn’t claim a treasure if we found it there). I think TenSleep is hinted at very strongly in the coffee cup story and the helmet in hand story. It doesn’t matter who or what Fenn is talking about. We are tricked into believing he is saying one thing when in fact he is saying something else entirely.

        • Flutterby;

          I note that you have repeatedly said that Cloud Peak is the tallest peak in Wyoming. I am sorry, but your information is not correct. Cloud Peak is 13,171′ while Gannett Peak is 13,809′ – 638 feet taller than Cloud Peak. Just thought you might want to know – Have a great search – JDA

          • I left out the phrase, within the Big Horn Mtns. Cloud Peak is the tallest peak WITHIN THE BIG HORN MTNS in Wyoming. But, again; the point is not which peak is taller. The point is, that there is a town that that is so close to this very prominent peak, that you can’t see it from the town. This situation fits the story of the coffee cup as well as the thumb covering philadelphia on the map.

          • Not a problem flutterby – I think we get (some of) the picture our thumb or c up blocks the rest 🙂 JDA

        • There is one other potentially small hint in TTOTC that makes me think that a large mountain could be in play. That is in the ‘Looking for Lewis and Clark’ chapter when he said the way out was over the highest mountain they had ever seen.

    • FlutterB – not so sure about where you’re going to look, but there is private property there (at that F draw), so be careful not to trespass…does look like BLM once you get away from the road, so may be ok. I’m not remembering any stories about searches there, so who knows. If you want to go down some other rabbit holes, look up George Frison…him and FF have history, I like their shared stories as a possible ‘theme’, but have not been able to put it together, but there are some very obvious possibilities…maybe too obvious? The mummy cave/George Dabich stories have similar cross-references, IMO…for me its the ‘not yellowstone’ aspect of these ideas…you park visitors have fun this year!

    • Hi Flutterby, I like your post, and that it connects bits picked from throughout the book. With a little imagination, IMO, there are thousands of similar scenarios that could be strung together from the riches in the memoirs. And yes, that IMP LIT chapter is very intriguing… it seems full of fiction thus, not pure memoir stuff. I’ve often thought the 3 Lit. books (Hem, Fitz & Sal) and the play (Kismet) were used to represent landmarks, either in geography or in Fenn’s life. However, I’ve come to think that for the search, the most telling chapter is the one with the poem, GOLD & MORE. Good luck, keep extracting & constructing. OS2

  42. Questions for Dal:
    How many searches have you been on to date?
    Has Esmeralda topped 300k miles yet?
    Do you carry a gun on all your searches?
    Will you continue the blog after the chest is found?
    Is Goofy OK and still involved with your blog?
    How many searchers have told you they ‘solved it’?
    Did you ever finish your new bathroom?

  43. “I have been actively in search of the treasure and I know exactly where it is. At this time I am unable to go BOTG though and I am looking for a partner to do the retrieving for me. I cannot promise a lot though if you help me I will do your taxes for free. Thank you”.


    • Sparrow,
      This request would be better of in the “I need a partner” thread. It will just get lost here in ‘oddies and never ending’ in a week or two when Dal closes it for responses and starts a new thread.

      If I may ask; Why can you go, or find a family member or friend will to?
      If it’s travel funding, I would think the payoff would be 1000 folds, iF “…and I know exactly where it is.” is how you really feel.

    • Seeker: it’s a joke from Sparrow (thus the quotation marks and the Watson).

  44. Hi Butch,

    Until someone has the T.C in there hands, the chase is still on.

    I too will be making my first trip to have BOTG soon, I also stay in the U.K

    Don’t be put off by what you hear or see, since Forrest made the comment about his “Gut Feeling” all of a sudden it’s amazing how many searchers seem to have solved the poem.

    Enjoy your trip and stay safe.

    Ronnie the Scot

    • Thank you Ronnie, what state are you going to look for your solve and how much were your flights?

      Good luck.

      • Hi Butch,

        Sorry I won’t divulge my solve or the state that I plan to go looking in.

        I will say this though it will take me the best part of two days to get to my destination.

        I like to keep my cards close to my chest.

        Regarding my flight costs it was around the £600, I live in Scotland.

        Where are you from?

        Ronnie the Scot

        • Hi Ronnie,

          Im in London, that a good price on your flights, mine are coming out at around £1,000.00 what company did you book with?

          Thank you.

  45. Searchers, please:

    Does FF say something about “the poplar tree” in his book TTOTC? (álamo in portuguese)


    • I don’t think so McB…but I don’t have the book committed to memory like some here do, I’m sure some others will chime in. There is a scrapbook about aspens.

    • McB: no poplars in TTOTC. Pine trees, ponderosa, aspen and laurels are it, I think.

    • McB; The leaves of poplars are very similar to those of Aspens and Cottonwoods. do a cross check, and you MAY be thinking of Aspens or cottonwoods, and not poplars. Just a thought – JDA

    • McB,
      Aspen is álamo temblón in Spanish which I thought might explain things. But when I translate it into Portuguese I get aspen = aspen, so maybe not.

      • I just remembered that Los Alamos is named for the aspen trees that grow there. So if you’re looking in NM you could use alamo = aspen in your solve.

        • Thanks JW,

          Someone posted more above something about Aspen, Fen (an N only) and I know that poplar grows in places with good irrigation.

          I made a link with FF’s phrase about the treasure being wet and between trees.

          Just this.

    • McB, in the Flywater chapter he talks about his memories of fly fishing and also of a memory on the Madison that involves a tree. “But as I got older, I realized there were many moments to remember, like the time I sat under a tree on the Madison River and watched the osprey dive for fish as I wrote a note for my wife, who always allowed me the luxury of doing the things I thought were important.”

  46. Has anyone noticed in Forrest’s books that he mentions hanging a lot? Forgive me as I dont have my books with me, but he mentions somewhere that the Sheriff respected the outlaw so much that he would hang him with a new rope. There is the obvious Teachers With Ropes Chapter. The kids held onto a large knot on a rope and didnt let go under penalty of death. An interesting anagram from a line in the book too. And then I got a cancer anagrams to: arc to ancient hanged. There is also the connection to all the stick figures he draws. Remember playing the hangman game as a kid? In the latest question on Jennys site he replies that the book is out of print. “The hang up is the binding.” Hanging again?

    • IMO, one of the answers to what you are looking for is in what your wrote ^^, but it may not help you with a location until you are close to the end, and it doesn’t have to do with rope. I see a second answer for rope that fits in my solve area, but may not fit in yours.

    • John R,

      Thank you for pointing that out as my long term memory system has mostly shut down.

      Months ago I found something in my search area that fits that description very well and I have been planning on checking it out during my next BOTG trip. But I have a big problem. Based on my map it’s above the stipulated 10,200’ elevation.

      For that reason it is not “supposed” to be there, but prudence dictates I have to check it out anyway. Why? Because I’m curious AND this elevation is well within the 15% “margin of error” (my term) Forrest gave us when he said only 85% needs to be true in non-fiction. TTOTC Page 14.

      I know this MOE comment will probably be considered blasphemy by many, but heck, I’m going to be there anyway, so why not try and look quickly down while it’s hanging up?

      Thank you again,


    • Maybe all the hanging reference is a sign to look up? Might just be a big hint there… Since we have to look quickly down at some point so we must have to look up before then.

  47. If I hired someone to help find the treasure I would look for an adventuresome fishing guide.

  48. I like it Flutterby, after all if you know who Brown is you would go right to the chest right?

  49. Thanks Tbug, how he writes certain chapters that seem really odd are surely worth paying attention to IMO.

  50. Hi all,

    With the prospect of the chest being found this summer I’m finding myself conflicted. I don’t know if I would like to know the correct solution to the poem or have the finder leave a portion of the cache for the chase to continue. On one hand it would be an end with answers but on the other, someone else would have a chance to continue their search…

    What do you all think? Would you:

    A. prefer to have the chase end with an explanation of the poem.

    B. Have the finder leave a portion so the chase continues.

    I also wonder what f would prefer, if any…

    I apologize if this has been brought up before.


    • “How would you like that paid out sir?”
      “All in hundreds please”
      “What about that promise you made to the people on the blog?”
      “What’s a blog?”

    • Tim,
      To use an old stockcar saying [ Dal Earnhardt ] ‘Second place is just the first place loser.’
      The sentiment of having the finder leave a portion of the trove is nice… but didn’t they ‘earn it all-?- by being the first to solve the challenge out of the hundreds of thousands who have or still are attempting to do the same?
      To do so, they lose the option of telling the full story of ‘their adventure,’ and give that to the second place finder to inherit… no winner circle for them, no full trophy, or simple recognition for a job well done. They would essentially be handing that to another.

      To be honest and my personal thoughts on the subject… It’s totally up to the finder to do as he/she/they wish. But it would be nice to hear from them how they managed to out wit all of us, and not so much someone from the rear of the pack.

      • What defines rear of the pack? You mean those who haven’t be vocal here or those that have been. I’ve been studying this for seven years never up till now did I feel I needed to voice an opinion so I guess I’m the roomie underdog that is bringing it up from the rear. I have 4 composition books of notes tabbed from 7 years of comments. Some that are useless and many that were helpful to my solve. We are all in first till there is no second!!!!

  51. I think the finder should do whatever they please with the trove but I wanna know the solution!

    • What did you call me?! OH! “Mother’s day”… Yep, one of the toughest jobs to have. Guy’s take the ladies out to a special dinner… that way, you don’t have to do the dishes either.

      • I was careful not to say mutha. I like doing the dishes…clean mitts, and keeps me outa mischief…kinda.

  52. Everyone needs to remember to look at the Big picture. almost every image whether of the chest, Forrest’s library etc… everything in the images is strategically placed. Use a magnifying glass if you need to, Gaze, go cross eyed if necessary, but really take a look! There is more to see if you just let your sight go with the flow… some examples : Look at the photo of Forrest signing books at the turquoise mine ( right below his name tag ).
    Blue Jeans and Hush Puppies again page 104 in TTOTC look at the image below Peggy’s left hand. Keep looking at the images in his books you will see if you continue to look. Look at google images of FF standing by his books, if you really pay attention to the titles a story will start to form. Look at the dots under the books in some pictures there is a sequence here. Yes, many libraries have a way of keeping books organized, Forrest has his, And at least one book that is near an edge you should pay special attention to. Look at FF sitting at his desk signing a book, now look at the photos on desk etc… there is much in plain sight that isn’t being looked at IMO …

    • I, too, have found a lot of stuff this way. Not sure what to do with it all (and suspect with some of the images/words superimposed on the photos in TTOTC, it is just him having fun, or giving private tributes). However, some of them seem very relevant.

  53. Forrest once said: Few are in tight focus with a word that is key. Now with the many ways that statement can be taken, has anyone ever thought ‘ in tight focus’ could possibly be anti-focus. Go with it, our vision doesn’t get sharper as we get older, it tends to blur a bit for most of us older folks. So look at his map, look at google earth, look at images in his books etc, but fade out blur your vision a bit, stare at something long enough it will blur for you, Now you may start seeing what older eyes see… once you start seeing new images this way you may also see the path that was taken. And remember Fenn just wants to be in the middle again, he has repeated this over and over. Middle, middle, middle, middle of map? Middle of a town? Middle of…??? ✌️

    • An interesting view-point (pun intended) – but I read it in the more traditional interpretation. Like a microscope or binoculars – focus in on it – bring it into CLEAR focus. Look at it MORE closely. Some times, one fails to notice the most obvious when looking for something. It is like driving down the road, looking for wildlife. Scanning the hills a bit in the distance, when all of a sudden a deer jumps across the road just a few feet in front of your vehicle – THAT will catch your attention – causing you to focus in on the obvious, rather than the perceived. Just how I see it – JDA

      • If you want to get into the traditional view point lets take it a step further. Forrest also says people are making it too complicated, he says if you only need the poem and he also says with the right map you can find it (not exact words on the map part but you get the gist) So lets uncomplicate it, lets look at the map from TFTW, it is the map that was provided from Forrest, so I would say it us the right map. But lets really make it literal and Go straight to Begin it where warm waters halt, ok I am looking at that phrase and at the map where that phrase is, literally speaking if I went from there and straight across to get in the correct states I am right by the border (One day when it was raining I went into Borders) now I am at Colorado border. Begin it where warm waters HALT and take it in the canyon down, not far but too far to walk. From the word Begin to the word walk is the same spot, where wwwh and where it also takes the water down. If you went straight across on the map and looked down you now see Flaming Gorge (the blaze ?) possibly if looking only at the poem and the map in TFTW.. hey you never know what you nay find with a different perspective

        • Nanette…very refreshing ideas for certain. Atelier students would put you right up there at the chalkboard. Either that or you are an eye doctor by trade. The pinhole occlude is a simple tool that anyone could test your theory with. The eye IS fascinating.
          Reminds me of the image of a Master, standing back, eyes squinted, looking past outstretched arm, across extended thumb. Very visionary idea.
          “Life for Eric was just a rule of thumb anyway and he was philosophical about it all.” There’s more…
          Thanks for the good stuff…

  54. Your next paragraph starts out
    From there is no place for the meek ( Dictionary meaning of ‘from’ a point where a journey starts
    ‘there’ used in attracting someones attention to someone or something ‘the meek’ I see the meek shall inherit the earth( but they are already dead, gone, extinct, graveyard for meek. At a grave ppl weep… we are very close to Hovenweep in Colorado. Etc…

    • To clarify Forrest Fenn is making no money and isn’t involved with this auction except for signing the merchandise.

    • Just seems like bottom feeding. So sad. Maybe team up with that Toby guy on youtube if you’re looking to profit from this. Commercialization and monetization off the chase is just so repulsive IMO. Have you even ever looked for the treasure?

      I personally appreciate what Dal and a few others are doing to promote the spirit of the Chase and facilitating the sharing of ideas without any (obvious to me, at least) intent to engage for no reason other than personal financial benefit.

    • Nothing! To clarify Forrest Fenn is making no money and isn’t involved with this auction except for signing the merchandise.

      • Thanks mdc777,
        I didn’t ask if FF was making money from it.
        I know he wants to go out with less than 50 bucks.
        Are you making money from this auction?

        • The items in the auction are in the video. Of course i’m making money I am putting items up on ebay.

      • Watersi arerunning super high on the Maddison as well as the Gallatin much higher than last weekend snow drifts are all soft zero density and rivulets and drainages all gushing I snow shoes for 2 hrs it only got deeper with altitude. The elk are returning I saw several caves this morning the bears will be feeding soon just thought I would share as I return home.

        • How was the snow to elevation correlation?

          Any chance getting into the mountains near Virginia City Montana?


  55. That’s good to hear. I do try to be clear when I write. I am writing a book right now so I have had some practice.

  56. Just read an article where a 5 year old girl was almost carried away from her home by a bear in the area of Grand Junction, Colorado.

    Be vigilant out there when you go searching!!

    Stay safe, everyone!


  57. Guy’s,

    I just noticed the latest question to Forrest on the Jenny Kile blog from a few days ago.

    It’s an interesting answer from Forrest, it sounds to me (IMO) that he knows its going to be found this Summer.

    I would be interested to get some of your thoughts on this?

    Take care guy’s and stay safe.

    Ronnie the Scot

    • Hi Ronnie;

      The question was: “Forrest, WHEN the Treasure Chest is found, would you prefer the finder not disclose the exact resting spot? Curious. ~ Afana

      “WHEN” is a non-determinant time. Today, tomorrow, next week – 1,000 years from now – That being said, I do not read it as a prophesy that the TC will be found soon. It MIGHT be found this summer per Forrest’s gut feeling, but then again, it might not.

      Forrest MAY KNOW that it is likely that it will be found, I just do not read this post as an indication of that – JMO – JDA

    • We already know that Forrest thinks it will be found this summer because he said so in February.

      It follows, IMO, that he is now reminding the finder to plan the trip well. Things like safe deposit boxes and making it home safely, etc.

      • *A good solve is frequently lost in a poor execution (Posted Jan. 15th, 2016) MW

        That phrase makes me think that Forrest knows someone walks around the chest.

        • Hi McB,

          Knowing what I know, nobody is walking round the treasure!…..IMO FF has been sent solid proof that a person or persons have located the chest…….however also knowing what I know your quote about poor execution could come into play and you will be surprised at how true that is when is found within the next month!

          • Butch;

            “Knowing what I know, nobody is walking round the treasure!…” And what could you possibly know that would make this possible? Do you have video cameras posted around where you THINK it is? Otherwise, it would be impossible to KNOW nobody is walking around the treasure. Again, “Knowing what I know your quote…etc. how can you KNOW anything about “poor execution” by another searcher.

            I know, you said IMO, but you seen to be clairvoyant to KNOW so much about the site and other searchers. Just sayin’ I learned a couple years ago the perils of being too boastful my friend. Crow and Humble Pie are not easily digested. Just experience talkin’ – JDA

          • JDA,

            I did say IMO and its not because im clairvoyant…..its because my solve has lead me to the chest and like I have stated before somebody may well beat me to it! however nobody is walking around the chest IMO so I simply answered a question, it may surprise you that some people spend so much time on the ‘Wrong” solves that when a person or persons come up with the ‘Right’ solve other searchers have cognitive dissonance!…….’It ends this season’! IMO.

          • Well Butch – I wish you the very best. By the way, what state are you convinced that Indulgence is in?

            Question, If you are so sure you have figured it all out, and Forrest has said that it can be retrieved any time of the year, what is keeping you from retrieving it? You may have said, and I just missed it – Sorry if that is the case.

            I am 75, have a bad heart, and can not retrieve it by myself. Therefore, I need help, and that help is not available until Memorial Day week-end, at which time I fully expect to retrieve it, despite the fact that I am almost positive we are in different areas, therefore am inclined to not believe your pontifications – sorry.

            Again, good luck to ya’ JDA

          • Thank you JDA, im sorry to hear about your heart condition and im also sorry if you think I have been brash about my solve but it honestly is correct IMO, I have had two independent people that I trust check it and its all good, I am travelling from the UK.
            I will reveal more once the chest is claimed be it me or someone else, but I promise I will reveal my solve either way along with the date stamped email I sent FF.
            Good luck in your search and im sure I speak for everyone when I say thank you for all the work you put into this site. Stay well my friend.

          • Thanks Butch. When is your flight? Can you get a refund if I or someone else finds the TC? Sure hope so for your sake.

            Thanks for the nice words re my contribution to the blog. I try to share what I can.

            Happy Hunting if you do come across the pond. JDA

          • So, it will all be over next month Butch?
            Well that’s good to know.. I’ll make new plans for July… Maybe I’ll go to Yosemite. Naaa, I’ll do that in February. Maybe NYC and watch the fire works. Wait! why would I want to go to NYC?

            Well anyways, good to hear this is all finally over. Thanks for the heads up.

        • Yes, not only have people been near the chest but it sounds like, from that quote, that they have failed to solve, or make necessary adjustments while on site. The person or people make it to the correct area based on a solve they formulated at home yet fail to head the correct direction.

        • Thank you JDA,

          There are a few reasons I haven’t made the journey until now, I actually made everything fit into place on April 1st which is funny in itself as in the UK that day is called April fools Day!
          But the main reason is finance, Forrest always said that he would like a truck driver with 6 kids to find the chest or something along those words, well thats me my friend, I dont have 6 kids but I live from week to week pretty much since I had major back surgery last April 2017, but I have recovered well despite my own company suffering greatly financially from my illness, I am getting fitter by the week and I have nothing to complain about, there are millions of people worse off than me in the world!
          You will in fact be BOTG before me so I look forward to your solve and I truly wish you good luck and I will be sending you good vibes on Memorial Day, my feet are itching to get on the plane but unfortunately my wallet is shaking with fear atm as im sure you can appreciate its not gonna be cheap for me given my current financial situation, but as Mr Fenn as always said ‘Its The Thrill Of The Chase’ 🙂

          • Butch;

            Glad that your back is healing well. Take care of it my friend. April probably would have been too early.

            I hope that your company picks back up soon – under your care.

            I will let you, and the world know how my search turns out.

            Again, good luck, and take care of your back – JDA

  58. Well I have a gut feeling the treasure will not be found this year.
    on top of that I would recommend that you simplify.

    • I’ve been seeing it for years and I’ve watched many researchers say, “I know where it is!”

      Then they quit for a while and come back full of excuses. It’s hilarious.

      That’s why I say, “I have a good solution, that’s all. I do not have the chest.”

      : ) Good luck for all’s!!

      • McB where do you hail from. You seem to have the same thoughts I do. When do you plan on a search and if so would you care to meet.

        • McB just answered this on a different thread: I’m from Apucarana – Paraná – Brazil 🙂 JDA

        • TB,

          I depend on timekeeping.

          The time that most work here is between September and April of the following year.

          And my solution can only go in this season (snow).

          You’re not American either, am I right?

          • Just curious, thinking that you will be flying from wherever you’re at, if you do find the chest, how will you get it back home? Do you trust TSA, or customs? In case you do find the chest, here’s some thing you will need to know:

            There is no limit on the amount of money that can be taken out of or brought into the United States. However, if a person or persons traveling together and filing a joint declaration (CBP Form 6059-B) have more than $10,000 in currency or negotiable monetary instruments, they must fill out a “Report of International Transportation of Currency and Monetary Instruments” FinCEN 105 (former CF 4790).

            Please be aware, if persons/family members traveling together have more than $10,000, they cannot divide the currency between each other to avoid declaring the currency.

            For example, if one person is carrying $5,000 and the other has $6,000, they have a total of $11, 000 in their possession and must report it on a FinCEN 105. If a person or family fails to declare their monetary instruments in amounts more than $10,000 their monetary instrument(s) may be subject to forfeiture and could result in civil and or criminal penalties.

            The FinCEN 105 can be obtained prior to traveling or when going through CBP. If assistance is required, a Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Officer can help with filling out the form.

            Good Luck. And remember, the chest is just a side note, have a great vacation.

          • Charlie,

            There are laws and regulations to be followed.

            And lawyers to mess things up.

            Just do it all the right way. Answered?

          • McB, I was answering that question. Just wanted to let those outside of the states what they need to do. I got the info from the U.S. Customs site. My actual words are the first paragraph and then down at “Good luck”. The 4 paragraphs in between are from customs.
            I thought for sure that there would be something capping what you could fly with in the U.S., but I guess not. Still, it would be a carry on for me, and wouldn’t leave my site. Just a reminder, because if someone outside the U.S. does find the chest, (which I highly doubt, because it’s just not going to happen, :)), be prepared to go a lot earlier to board your flight. TSA will probably pull you aside, and customs will have some questions. When all said and done, don’t forget to UPS Fenn’s bracelet back to him. Wouldn’t want to get it out that someone other then an American found the chest and didn’t return one simple little item. (Just kidding around, of course). Good Luck…

          • McB,

            This is hilarious! 🙂

            McB on May 14, 2018 at 4:30 pm said:

            * And lawyers to sort things out.

            Translate bad.

          • Charlie,

            There are fast people and smart people.

            I think I fit in with the smart ones.

            I do not really need the treasure. I have enough.

            As soon as I find him, I return the bracelet to FF and I will hide it somewhere else.

            I’ll leave a tip at the original location and return to Brazil.

            I’m going to write another treasure-hunting book to money the book.

            I’ll get FF’s biography and sell it to some interested publisher.

            I’m just going to have to give satisfaction to the Brazilian Income Tax.

            Very simple. No problems.

    • IMO. Humbly I will find the TC this Year and be the nations most famous Kettle Corn popper. If not I’ll eat crow pie.

    • Lugnutz,

      I’m with you on this. There seems to be a lot of bravado here on hoD of late. If I am wrong in my assessment, so be it. But I have a sneaking suspicion that there is going to be a lot of humble crow pie being served later this summer/fall.

      And it is NOT because you all don’t know what I know concerning my solution thus far. This is not about me.

      I have begun to wonder if Mr. Fenn underestimated the impact of his treasure hunt, and in doing so, did not anticipate the shear volume of folks putting their hearts and minds into it. I do not think it will take thousands of years to find at status quo. Unless the world changes dramatically in unimaginable ways, I do think this puzzle will be solved in the next 20 years. The winnowing is already going on for new comers. I was able to get “up to speed” much quicker than those who started at the beginning.

      What I haven’t seen is much “next level” thinking – analyzing and sifting of the data – not complicating the poem, just good old fashioned hard thinking. This is not a slam against anyone searching, but rather a realization that I do not think a single person is going to be able to figure it out. I think it is going to be collaborative effort that brings it home. It is an opinion that seems to be growing in my mind.

      And no, I am not looking to put together an “A” team, or trying to bolster my resume so someone “will pick me up”. I’m just trying to stand back and look over what’s gone down since Indulgence was squirreled away in the wood and recognizing what has transpired.

      Maybe that’s part of the intrigue concerning the allure of the search. I think it will be calmer minds that prevail. But I have been wrong before and expect to be mistaken in the future as well. Your mileage may vary.

      Good luck to all!

      • You assume people are posting their next level thinking. Perhaps it exists, but you’re just not seeing it.

        I think FF probably is seeing it (or some if it) so his gut is probably more informed.

        • FMC – not really – most of us are not sharing what we’re really thinking.

          Check out my reply to Oz10 below.

        • Correct. No one is stating their deep thoughts countless hours of research. No one is posting even a hint of where they are going and their devices of getting to where they are headed. I have spent just this season already 40 hours of driving some botg. And many sleepless nights. So of course we are not talking doesn’t say that we are not busy behind the curtain. My next trip out will not be met with a road block. I honestly feel that this chase will be over within the next 60 days. Weather it’s myself or someone else. The chest has rested its last winter.

      • Swwot, I agree with your estimations. What kind of ‘next level’ thinking do you think is involved here?

        • Oz10,

          I suppose, with what I have shared, this is a fair question. I think my initial response is somewhat like the response from a judge (whose name I cannot recall) who espoused, “I may not be able to define pornography, but I know it when I see it.”

          Again, I suppose it is more of an organized/coordinated/methodical attack against the puzzle.

          So, how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

          If the puzzle is a single formidable opponent that no one of us can defeat, why not gang up on it? Dal and others with their blog and web sites help us connect as a community. But we each have only so many arrows in our quivers to bring down the mastodon.

          For me, that’s the next level of engagement. I think some of us should come together and team up on the beast. I think our odds will improve, even if only by a tiny bit.

          • Swwot, I understand now. A ‘think tank’ with a laser focus on results sounds very interesting and if it existed I would like to participate. There are several bloggers here ‘yourself included’ that seemed highly disciplined and can build something like that. I wish I had more time to contribute but my only time off for this year is Nov. and Dec.

          • Your mention of “quiver” reminded me of an earlier
            (since abandoned) “clue path” a few miles northeast of
            my [current] one. My search trip in 2017 was enjoyable,
            but my next one will be a blast. Get the point? IMO.

      • swoot, I agree that it may take a collaborative effort. So many have good ideas to offer but at least 99% of ideas offered are likely incorrect. Finding the treasure may take openly speaking of and agreeing on the best ideas.

        • Sorry guys;

          I am still betting on a single-solver solution – In the not too distant future. My crystal ball broke though, so who knows? JDA

        • It may be beneficial for ones who feel a collaborative effort is a good route to follow to start forming the structure of the group. This way come the end of this search season all the agreements and such are already established. Ready to go..

          • For those that want to collaborate, this open site or any others like it, would not be a good choice. The biggest single reason I can think of is the fact that there are a lot of web crawling bots that would give the information to those that created them to be at the final spot before the true “figured it out-ers” got their travel plans coordinated.

            I wouldn’t want to put together a team until after the din has died down for the year from all those that already know that their solve is correct. Let’s revisit this in the fall.

        • Aaron,

          So far, it is 100% of the ideas and follow up executions have been wrong.

          However, I suspect some have been close. I’d even go so far as to say, some of them thought they were close. But, and it’s a big but, they didn’t know why they missed finding it.

          What we don’t know, is what Mr. Fenn knows.

          • I do agree with revisiting in the fall but like FD, also think that getting the framework in place ahead of time is a good idea.

            My son and I will be creating a website to further the effort. I have freelance web design experience myself and my son probably knows more than I do about it. That would just be a start though. We will need to come up with legal framework, which will not be as hard as most think, group size, online meeting times, and agenda’s, and much more.

            It is exciting to think about what is possible with a group of individuals with matched enthusiasm for getting this done.

          • Aaron,

            Thank you for the offer of creating a secure/encrypted site. There will be many legalities that will need to be worked out, but nothing that isn’t insurmountable.

            And does this “break the spirit” of the search? I’m sure we’ll hear about these, and other comments if we decide to pursue this course of action.

        • Aaron,

          There is already a collaborative effort, through hoD and other websites. Yet at this time and in the past there has been no find.

          Just say’n

    • Aaron, no he’s not, its a joke about confidence. I just hope Dal’s trips don’t interfere with him posting all the busted solves! I can’t wait until the fall to hear all the excuses, plans for the next trip and another year of fun!

  59. Does anybody happen to remember the scrapbook number that involved the drift wood that looked like an angel? Thank you for helping

  60. After reading the scrapbook I can’t help but think Flanders Field is the part that is appropriate. A poem written during ww1.
    Forrest must have spent every free moment he had reading. The history he has knowledge of is staggering.

  61. There is a field in my search area I did not look. My solve took me past and I didn’t think it was the right spot. Now I don’t know.

  62. Butch,

    Good luck to you on your BOTG trip, I know that your trip is expensive.

    Is it next month that you make your trip?

    Take care and stay safe.

    Ronnie the Scot.

      • Butch,

        How long will you be spending in the Rockies and are you going on your own or with someone?

        Just curious.

        Take care and stay safe.

        Ronnie the Scot

        • Hi Ronnie,

          I have booked 3 weeks in America although I intend to turn the ‘Claim’ around within the first few days and then go to my hidden location and lay low for a couple of weeks while I consult my lawyer who is already aware of my intentions, I will be doing this alone until I have claimed the chest and once I have it in hand one of my closest friends who is ex-special service will be joining me until we can safely deposit the chest and feel safe in our surroundings!
          During that time I will be deciding what way to go regarding publicity ect.

          When are you BOTG? stay safe.

          • Hi Butch,

            I have made plans for the middle of June for eight days.

            I will be going alone, it will be my first trip outside of the UK.

            Cannot wait to get my BOTG.

            Due to the expense and the distance this will be my one and only trip.

            Hopefully I will beat you to finding the T.C (HA HA)

            Watch out all of you guy’s across the pond, the boy’s from the U.K are coming.

            When are you going to the states? and how long have you been on the chase?

            Safe journey and take care.

            Ronnie the Scot

    • Thank you Ronnie,

      Good luck to you and I hope your journey is all that you hope it will be, do me one favour on your way to the TC, just sit down for 5 minutes and take in all the beautiful surroundings, im sure you will be hyped up on your way to the solve but before you put your hands on it just admire what a beautiful place it is (If we have the same solve of course) wherever it is your off to by default it will be an amazing place!

      I hope your one and only shot at this pays off for you! 🙂

      • Butch,

        All being well I hope to be sitting down and admire the views for a lot longer than five minutes.

        And hopefully I am sitting looking at the beautiful views with the T.C on my lap.

        And hopefully as I am walking back to my hired car, I will laugh out loud and say to myself Ronnie did you really do that.

        Only time will tell?

        By the way Butch beware of JDA, he’s one to watch.

        Take care and stay safe.

        Ronnie the Scot

        • While I can admire both your confidence (I think Bravado is a better word, thanks swwot), I think you both are in for an eye opening experience and not just the possibility of the box, rather, a trip to the rocky mountains, the wildness of it, the monumental scale of the place you’re going to… you are going to re-learn what the word ALONE means…many, including Forrest himself have warned about going into the woods alone…generally not a good idea, for Butch at least you have a back up person coming to meet you, I would suggest waiting till he is here with you before going to your spot, but we know you don’t want to listen. Ronnie has been planning since the fall and has been listening about being prepared, I suggest you read his other posts/questions.

          So just for a quick comparison…the UK is 93,000 square miles of land…the state of Wyoming covers 97,000 square miles.

          • Tbug,

            Thank you for your concern and although your ‘Dont want to listen” comment was a cheap swipe may I suggest that IMO it is in fact ‘You’ that hasn’t listened…..not to me but in fact to the great Mr Fenn!…..because yes I am going ‘Alone in there’….however the fact is I will not be alone, in fact I expect quite a few hundred people to be where I am going! and FYI I have been to the Rocky Mountains before so I know very well what its like to be ‘Alone’ as you put it, it was one of the most amazing experiences of my life!

            1, We covert what we see everyday

            2, ‘The first rule about fight club is, you dont talk about fight club.

            I will leave you with these quotes and wish you good luck in your search.

          • My apologies Butch for making those assumptions, glad you’re familiar with where you’re going. Didn’t mean to be a ‘swipe’ at you, just so many folks who insist on going alone. To your point, people around is good, hopefully a few of them with uniforms will be looking out for you (aka let them know where you’re going, be safe, pleeeeeease!). Good luck, truly, I’m not a full-fledged fennatic yet (no botg for me yet, still playing canasta), but maybe soon!

  63. Hello all,
    I am curious to know if anyone has made a connection to WWWH and Teddy Roosvelte staying at Glenwood Springs ?

  64. Guy’s,

    I would like your thoughts on the following;;

    If Forrest was no longer with us, I do hope that he is around for along time yet.

    Do you think that the chase would still be as popular as ever?

    Just curious.

    Take care and stay safe.

    Ronnie the Scot

    • Sadder Searchers, yes, but I think that the search would go on – maybe even 1,000 years. The dream has been sewn, even if the farmer dies, nature will ensure that the field does not become fallow – JMO – JDA

      • I agree JDA, it would be nice to know Mr Fenns logic and overall planning of the chase and the poem, so obviously would be good for us all if its found before he leaves us.

    • JMO but if the TC isn’t found within the next 30 years it will NEVER be found!

    • I think it will stay popular for at least another 50 years but if it isn’t found within 30 years it will NEVER be found and because of that I believe Mr Fenns name and legacy will live on, however I fear it may become urban myth because it was never found. JMO

  65. Happy to do it swoot.

    I don’t feel that group effort violates the spirit of the search but that is just my opinion. FF left it for all to search and has said it is out of his hands now. It would be nice to know his thoughts on this type of effort though.

  66. If you have never read Forrestfenntreasurehunt.com you may want to have a look. I may let it expire in a few weeks.

  67. Is it possible that we can solve the poem in Vietnam and use that to reference areas almost 1/2 way around the world in the USA? For example, could Forrests “special waterfall” near the French Grave be somewhere over Yellowstone?

    I made a video about this today!


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