Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Fifty Three


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662 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Fifty Three

  1. Kind of curious how important people feel the two Omegas are to the treasure as they aren’t part of the poem.

    • The omegas are in the poem yes.

      They are not in the TTOTC and TFTW books for nothing.

      Read the poem several times and you will find them.

      They are on the correct map.

      They are in Google Earth.

      They are part of the Big Picture.

      An old and natural. Another new and unnatural.

      The two have already been covered by researchers.

      Both can last for hundreds of years.

      One above. Another below.

      A hard one and named in the poem. Another soft and quoted in the poem.

      One goes with you. Another only you will.

      Death and blaze have history with them.

      A lot of research, a lot of sleep, a lot of thinking.

      Too much burns neurons.

      Just my conclusions, nothing more.

      • Thanks for these thoughts about the omegas. I’ll have to give them some consideration as I don’t have much that’s concrete regarding the omegas.

      • I like the way you think, great minds who see more than what meets the eye will truly discover the unseen…

      • I think that an omega has a big part to play in the final solve (well it has in mine) but I don’t see any reference to it in the poem.

        • Rexnest,

          Read “well” (carefully) the poem, then answer me: Where are the omegas in the TTOTC book?

    • They are important, yes. How significant? I am unsure at this point, but they are important.

      • How significant?

        They simply give you the direction of the chest.

        JMO – I do not have the chest.

      • Good morning swwot,

        I could list several interpretations all of which I can easily tie to the Chase. A few without using any imagination and a few others using just a teensy-weensy.

        I’d love to share my conclusions, but that would divulge way too much in more ways than one.

        So taken all together, I’d classify the Ωs a super hint.


      • Swwot;

        Are the Double Omegas important? Yes/No

        For me, they are the final conformation that I am in the correct area. Did they help in solving the riddles? Not at all. So, again, are they important? Yes, in that they serve as conformation that one is in the correct area. And, No, in that they did not contribute to the solving of the riddles that are to be found in the poem. – JDA

        • JDA,


          They are like the blaze.

          You will only have confirmation solving the poem.

          It’s no use going out looking for omegas out there.

          When you get to the right place they will be there to confirm that you are on the right path.

          I gave an (IMO) tip to you about them not long ago.

          Read the poem carefully. They are there.

        • Quick question, JDA, if you don’t mind…
          How far away are the double omegas from where you park your car?

          • Smokybaer;

            There are two. One is 9.2 miles from a place BEFORE where I park my car – Because of the size of the second (and major one), I can not give you an answer. – Sorry – JDA

          • Thanks for responding. I was just curious because of all the blazes you hoop thru if that somehow messed you up with the omegas and where you park was close or too far and have to move again. Just me overthinking again.

            When you planning to go see that big omega?

          • May 25 – Memorial Day Week-end. Thanks for askin’

            No, my “iterations” through the poem do not affect, nor are they affected in any way. I do not use them at all in solving the riddles, they are just confirmation that I am in the correct area. JDA

          • Wow, you’re almost packin’ already.
            Wishing you best of luck and safe travels.
            I’m a week behind you so if you find it, please let us know. I can save my travel money for the next big adventure.

        • I hope you have a wayfaring good time! Still debating on whether or not I want to head out again so soon but the snow has definitely melted a lot in the North even at high elevations (in some areas, not all).

      • Maybe they represent bends in a river, where the water turns greenish deep, and the trout fishing is good?

        • JimB: that’s always been one of my front-runner interpretations. Completely unactionable information without solving all the clues, but perhaps a nice wink if it matches where the clues have sent you.

          • Zap…saw your post on another thread re busted solve. Are you considering publishing your solution??

          • Hi Sandy — I’ve certainly given it some thought, if only for the brief satisfaction I might derive from the ensuing apologies from some of my more vocal critics here. The downside is that everyone (including lurkers) would then know WWWH, but at this point I almost don’t care if they do. It’s pretty obvious you need the right WWWH to have a chance, but even having it is a far cry from solving the rest (as evidenced by at least 5 years of failures from people who solved WWWH early on, and 3 years of failures from yours truly).

            Perhaps I’ll take a middle-ground approach and reveal WWWH to some respected searcher here who can then relay to everyone else whether I’ve been blowing smoke.

          • Zap;

            Please, take time to “Lick your wounds”, and not give away (to anyone) your wwwh. Many times, I have returned “hurt and wounded.” The ego is a remarkable thing, it heals quickly. Many has been the time that I felt that there was “Just no other place to go than where the poem had led me.” – And yet, a few days later, I would discover a word, a line, a nuance that I had not seen before, and off I would go again – Every time, getting closer and closer to the prize. “Be stout of heart my fair knight.” JDA

          • Zap –

            Let me take a step back. I believe you just referred to some critics and maybe that includes me.

            I think you are good at what we do and I think you have put a lot of work in.

            If you don’t want to tell me where you were looking that’s cool.

            I am more interested in your ideas over the past 24 months.

            You may or may not receive my comment from the Spice Man thread, so I will address this here. In Nov 2016 you were certain of your starting point and the clues or hints from TToTC that lead to it. At that time you were actually referring to a clue in stanza one, so that may not be your WWWH. You said when I see the clue or hint I will do a Homer Simpson D’oh! I am interested in what you are referring to. I am also interested in all your other theories. What the stamps mean. Why the stumps were reversed. What the backwards bike is a reference to, etc.

            Maybe most of all I would be interested in how you interpret Not Far, But Too Far To Walk.

            I am not a critic I am a fan. The way I see it is you will tell me your ideas and that will help us solve the clues. I will remind you that to date I have never really seen anything from anyone that makes me go Eureka! Many people have emailed me in an attempt to convince me. Most are nuts, some are on this site. Some just don’t reveal enough for me to make a judgement.

            I am absolutely most interested in the BTFTW that you originally discovered on the map.

            If you are not ready to share I get it and I would ask you to consider some other areas or approaches. You remain a brilliant searcher!


          • Hi Lugnutz: at the time I wrote that post, you were actually someone I had in mind who is critical (in a good way!) and thus would not have a jaundiced eye for or against while assessing my WWWH possibility. After all, if I could convince a strong critic, that would be rather telling to everyone else.

            For now, let me address your questions specific to my starting point. It has remained the same since I hit upon it a couple years ago — I wrote the eureka date down someplace, but I’m pretty sure it was spring or summer of 2016. That location has further solidified in the time since. You are correct to point out that back then I was claiming that there was a necessary clue in the first stanza in order to solve WWWH, and yet we now know that WWWH is the first clue, so there cannot be a clue in stanza #1. So what I thought was a clue can at most be only a hint.

            Initially I was somewhat ambivalent about the differentiation between clues and hints, but by Forrest’s definition (clue getting you closer to the chest, while hints merely helping with the clues) I accepted that what I felt was a clue (since standalone it WOULD bring you closer to the chest — at least relative to the entire 4-state area!) could also be interpreted as a hint, since by itself it pointed to too many possibilities. It is only when used in conjunction with WWWH that it specifies a precise starting point.

            This past winter, I became more convinced that what I found in the first stanza was a hint not a clue because I realized it could also be found in every other stanza. The clues have to be in order, but Forrest placed no such restriction on hints, so if the same information is repeated in all six stanzas, the consecutive clue requirement pretty much dictates that it can at most be a hint, or at worst mere coincidence. (Though I think you’d agree that the odds are getting pretty long against coincidence for the same hint to be found exactly once per stanza.)

            The reason I mentioned the Homer Simpson “D’Oh!” example is just because that was my personal reaction. Something in the poem that was staring me in the face for a year before I saw it. This “reaction” is what I figured Forrest was referring to when he brought up the link to the backwards bicycle: something just snaps, and suddenly you get it.

            As for the postmark stamps, I’ve tried to mine those every which way, and as a result it is much easier to fall into confirmation bias after so many permutations have been considered. There is probably a hint hiding in there, but I somehow doubt it will help anyone solve a clue. (They played no part in my last two solutions.)

            I think you’d have to agree the stamps are anomalous, with all but one out of 20 appearing on even numbered pages, and the lone holdout (page 51) being a duplication of the stamp on page 126 — which just happens to be the “Gold and More” chapter containing the poem.

            I know you’re mostly interested in what I consider to be the linchpin: Not far, but too far to walk. Based on your past ponderings on the subject, I’m confident that if I gave you my WWWH, you would immediately decipher NF, BTFTW, which would only further cement your confidence in WWWH.

            Anyway, to reiterate, I include you on a short list of longtime Fenners with whom I might share my full WWWH explanation and evidence. But I need time to consider the ramifications of such a decision; others have figured out the same WWWH and kept publicly silent about it, as I’m sure they have their own pending searches coming up soon.

            Let’s see how the coming weeks unfold; I know lots of searchers will be out between now and the first week of June — particularly in or near YNP.

          • Zap –

            I have just read your comment directed to me. I had note received an email on that one, or I missed it.

            My main concern is going to be with the veracity of your claim that Fenn has give 250 hints to the starting place. I suspect that we will disagree that many of those are hints. I know I already disagree with one.

            It’s not just BTFTW. I am very curious about the comments you make about the scrapbooks etc. Why the painting was renamed Graciella. Why the horse’s name is Lollipop. What’s with he ABC duck names.

            At the same time that I have an interest in you ideas I have never heard you tackle some of the other Fenn Mysteries. What happens to the ball of string that is too large to fit through the door. Time magazine. Catcher in the Rye. The light switch.

            There are many instances where you think you are seeing a hint and I would like to hear about those. I have asked other searchers to tell me about the hints they see, including one you consider a dedicated searcher like yourself. Those hints were decidedly lacking. The person was making normal associations and thinking more of them.

            I don’t discuss on this board the things that people have told me in confidence. I am trying to think of an example that did not happen. Okay. A chaser says the buffalo’s name was Cody and there is a Cody Wyoming. You see? That cannot possibly be a hint because pretty much everyone knows there is a Cody Wy. IF that was a hint than someone would have thought of it previously.

            I am not saying horn isn’t in the poem, I know it is. I do not see the significance or believe it was placed with intent. I believe that is a coincidence. The fact that the bike has a horn is a stretch. Lots of other people believe all that stuff.

            Here is what I think. No one to date has solved WWWH AND known it. They have moved on.

            When I first contacted Dal I asked him if anyone had been up to El Vado reservoir. El Vado means Ford, there is a Ford car in the stories, the teacher’s name is Ford, Chama is Flame in Portuguese, Chama is used locally to mean a campfire – look for the Chama, etc etc. None of this has anything to with where warm waters halt. It’s just poppycock. It’s the process we go through as we search. You don’t want to hear this, but I think you went out to search too soon.

            Let me finish this Seeker length comment with one of many great pieces of advice from Alvin Straight. (in the movie)

            “At my age, I’ve seen about all that life has to dish out. I know to separate the wheat from the chaff and let the small stuff fall away.”


    • They are not part of the poem. I have never seen them in a book by ff, although, from years of reading posts by ones who read the books, I know they exist. I have the books, but I have never opened them.
      My thought on the two omegas:
      Two ends. Bridge? Smiles.


      • zeldasings,
        You have the books, but you never opened them, yet you say; I never seen them in a book by ff.

        I won’t say my thoughts… they won’t matter.

    • Dreamer, imo the omegas are very important and i have found a couple BUT have had a hard time making them do more than possibly a confirmation i may be in the right area. Trying to figure out how to use them in a more precise manner. Maybe it’ll come when boots hit the ground. I’m ready for vacation time.

      Good luck and ya’ll be safe!

    • My opinion about the Double Omegas… They are highly significant to the finding of the chest. But, and this is a big one, DONT BE CONCERNED ABOUT THE DOUBLE OMEGAS BECAUSE THEIR SIGNIFICANCE WILL BE REVEALED TO YOU AS A RESULT OF COMPLETING THE SOLVE TO THE POEM. So, again, don’t concern yourself with them. Remember f said something along the lines that searching for the blaze is just expensive folly? Trying to make sense of the Double Omegas is the same folly 10 fold. Trust me, when you understand them completely you will have NO DOUBT that you have correctly solved The Thrill Of The Chase. None. N O N E ! Yeah Baby, yeah!

      • Slurbs –

        You probably heard the interview where Fenn said he would take the very personal meaning of the double Omegas to the grave, that it would never be revealed. I don’t have a link to the video, but that tells me they have nothing to do with the treasure.


        • Well, actually I only knew what the double omegas were after solving the poem at my research site.

          Before that I did not imagine they were involved in the hunt.

          In my solution they, IMO, are practically the cradle of the chest as well as “in wood”

      • So slurbs where are you on your own condifence scale lol? Love the Austin Powers quote.

      • When you have the treasure in hand you will have no doubt you have correctly solved it lol Slurbs, but you have me intrigued as to how the omegas play a part. I always thought they weren’t important to the solve.

        Btw – if you don’t mind my asking what state are you searching?

        • GCG – what is your take on the omegas? I’ve noticed you’ve gone silent as of late which I assume is to protect your lead lol.

          • MCB,

            The Omega’s have nothing to do with the “correct solution” of the poem’s clues…

            They are not in poem.

            “No one has any secret information that will take them to the hiding place. It’s in the poem for all to see.”

            I really don’t have anything more to say – currently.


          • It’s good to hear from you GCG. I agree they are not in the poem. I have some other ideas about them but that can wait for another time.

          • GCG,

            I am sorry to contradict you GCG, but the reference to them is in the yes poem.

            And it is helping many researchers to locate themselves in their solutions.

            Read the TTOTC book, cover by cover, and you’ll know where they are in the poem.

            Ps.: I do not have the book.

    • Just my way of looking at things, but if you but the IMO If you put them side by side with a little imagination I see to saddles with riders on them, which take me to Looking for Lewis and Clark.. jmo

  2. This is from my notes, Take a look at the items Fenn selected for his ‘eclectic collection’ in Gold And More. Is it an overview or plan of a search?

    ❖ beaded moccasins (walk/trail),
    ❖ fore-edge painted books (visuals, scenery, outline, edge),
    ❖ weather vanes (directions, N-S-E-W, co-ordinates),
    Egyptian jewelry (The cartouche of Cleopatra’s name was the KEY to the Rosetta Stone. Her cartouche is a common jewelry item today. A name is all Forrest had, they couldn’t take it away. Xx xxx xxxx xxxxx xxx Xxxxxxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxx Xxx Xxxxx.)
    arrowheads (see, aim, fly to the target)
    pocket knives (in the pocket, the kill, the TC)

    Sorry for the xx’s, I can’t give that sentence away. I think one needs to identify a name (other than Brown) to solve the poem, and that name is a key. My solve goes up to the blaze, but I don’t have bog to get further. Never will. Good luck. All IMO, OS2

    • Oops, I don’t know why my stars vanished on the last three items in the collection. Bad omen?

    • OS2-

      I love the fore-edge painted books. I hope someday to find one for my bookshelf. Your thinking is on a different track than mine, but I think we are going the same way, at least mentally.

      • I spent most of my career as an electronics technician. My degree is in Information Technology and I have done some web design. Now I manage assets and preveventative maintenance for equipment in the buildings for a large University.

        • That Cool! I’ve worked with computers for about 15 years. Today I am just a user. I no longer format my computers or laptops. I have laziness. : )

          Now I just travel and do researches.

          • Nice, I do not do as much with computers as I should actually. They do work well as treasure hunting tools though.

  3. I’ll post one more idea of mine:

    What if the poem’s solution is “totally literal”?

    No meanings, interpretations, deciphering, etc …

    That would take a trout river and follow it from the beginning. Type Pecos, Firehole, Madison, Yellowstone, among others?

    With the poem in hand identifying each clue, one after the other?

    And it’s no use researching, “HAVE” to do BOTG from the beginning?

    Why does FF talk so much about finding WWWH?

    He says he was impressed by how many people were searching Maps, GE, going BOTG …

    At first only the TTOTC, the poem and a good map would suffice.

    Now we have ATFs, tips, advice, “one more book” TFTW and a “huge” RM map.

    When we simplify the TTOTC and the poem, what do we have? Something literal.

    Just thoughts and ideas of who have nothing to do at night.

    • McB,

      I agree that the poem contains everything you need to find the chest, if you clearly and precisely have read it. But the stories tell the why and create the back story. Using those for information is like having two sets of verification, and can help clarify which direction to go.

      • KK,

        I do not have the books. And it does not have in Portuguese.

        The stories I read are from the FF Blog and the SBs from Dal’s blog here.

        And so I lose the sense of words because of the translation of Google.

        So my strong base is from the poem, which I translate word for word.


        • McB—

          I just wanted to let you know that you greatly impress me. Not speaking English and taking the time to translate everything into Portugese is actually quite amazing. And to have the understanding that you do is remarkable. I hope you are the one that finds it. That would be the icing on top of the cake.

          • Thank you Sparrow,

            But there are people who deserve more of the rewards, and who would still be the icing on the cake.

            I am just one of the many who strive for the pleasure of the adventure of living.

            Thank you,


    • McB,
      I agree with most of what you listed here. IMO, most questions can be answered with the Thrill of the Chase book. I think Forrest even told us the state the chest is in right up front and in the beginning.

  4. I have had one and only solve since I started on this journey a year or so ago. It is exciting but I have yet to have the confidence to make the long trip and go BOTG.. I’m hoping to change that soon. Tired if armchairing.

  5. Idle Dreamer, Omega…s
    the twenty-fourth, and last, letter of the Greek alphabet (Ω, ω), transliterated as ‘o’ or ‘ō.’.
    symbol………..24 lines, six stanzas, 9 clues equal points of the compass

    Aaron, I too worked in Naval and Flight System Electronics beginning with Sperry and Arama Gyroscopes into GPS, I was involved with the conversion of Analog Gyros and Navigation systems into Digital GPS. Bad Boys Rape Our Young Girls, But Violet gives willingly? Double Omega would be 200 ohms, why that is significant I have not clue or even a hint, heck I didn’t even hear the question, I was sliding down the fire escape bannister of life and my pants got brown..
    “a 100Ω resistor”

    O positive blood type

    Charlton Heston was Omega man..right?

    I think I will go back and study more “Important Literature” this all Borders on insanity.


    • Lol, thanks for the resistor code reminder. I wasn’t involved with GPS and Gyroscopes. I worked on satellite communications systems in the SHF and EHF range, and HF line of sight. Later air traffic control radar.

      So omega is the 24th letter of the Greek alphabet and X is the 24th letter of our alphabet. Both work with my solve 🙂

      • Aaron what “Architectural Structure” did ff design? There seems to be few people who propound any workable or work around feature for this poem’s design it seems like the layers of meaning would contain a marker or rule of thumb method for seeing a web that hangs on lines of this rhyme, are we missing the common denominator?

        If there is a key perhaps it hangs there just out of grasp, and when someone realizes it, they will ask “What took me so long”

        I think it will be discovered this summer, but not by accident, it will be an AH HA! moment.


      • Humm, the omegas give the “X” …

        Will the center of the junction or union of the omegas give the “X”?

        Just, and Just Assumptions

      • I got out in Dec of 1967, The Day of beginning the Tet Offensive and I arrived at the Albuquerque International Sunport in time to watch the Embassy Marine Recon/Embassy force take a pounding in Saigon.

        I was lucky to be out of the amphib Navy, because shortly after the six day war, in Israel/Middle East I got reassigned to the Med, where and when our job was to evacuate American Citizens, we told all Americans to go to Embassies, and our job was to evac them and staff and get them out to safety. I would have been in the middle of that fight. Seal team 21 was assigned to APD 90, A High Speed Transport carried Recons Teams and Seals AKA “UDT teams” and Embassy Marine Groups. I worked with them. but I was not a UDT member, got the job because I was a first class swimmer/diver also made their phones and radios work when they broke. Doubled as navigation officer. There were many of those fine warriors who did not come home. I was soooo lucky to be home and healthy in 1968. Even if I was a “Baby Killer” and member of CHI GAMMA IOTA XGI’s frat AKA the “Baby Killers” on campus at UNM. and Uof A


          • Tom and Aaron – thank you for your service!

            My dad retired from the Navy in 1975 as an Aviation Electrician, assigned to the USS Lexington. As a result I had the opportunity to be in every state on the East coast by the time I was in the fourth grade!

      • Aaron, Electronics tech, out of the Navy in 2005? You said you are in San Diego, right? Had me thinking, I have a friend with the same as you, but believe he is still on the East coast. Was a Nuke, went subs.
        Yea, no way he would come out here to San Diego without letting me know. Either way, good luck this Summer.

        • Nice, I almost went nuke but decided against it. If he was on the east coast odds are he is still there as they like to keep people on the same coast, or used to anyway.

          Thanks, good luck to you too Charlie.

  6. I’d like to ask Foreast Iif True Grit might Be a clue. – Francis Tobias Fontaine – FTF

    • My wife randomly started playing this in the kitchen last night while I was in another room and I didn’t know what was going on. Kind of spooky with no context, IMO.

      I hear “Yerry” FWIW.

    • I hear hanky… no way trying I can hear laurel … can’t hear Forrest either.

  7. Thanks swoot it was my pleasure. I think you probably saw more new things as a result of your dad being in than I did in my 8 year Navy career.

  8. “The end is ever drawing nigh;”

    Does anyone else see that as a loop-followed by a wink?


  9. “There seems to be so many of you searchers that know where the chest is hidden. For crying out loud go and get the frickin’ thing would ya? I been searchin’ for years now and after reading a few of your posts sayin’ that you know where it is I had a heart attack. Thanks a lot you over-confident snobs”.

    —Meghan Markle’s Father

  10. My treasure hunting trips are soon! I can’t wait. For those of you who remember the song “Basketball Jones”: I have the “treasure hunting jones”!!

      • I’m going to drive to the Colorado-New Mexico border & check out a few spots near where those 2 states meet.

        • Hope you get out of your car and enjoy the splendors of the Rockies – Just kiddin’ Ya’ – Have Fun and TRY to STAY SAFE – JDA

          • JDA, And you had what to drink for breakfast? Just kidding – I wrote that because you wrote that, to someone else a few days ago. Hee hee.

        • FYI

          Tom Terrific is the blaze, so look for him. He usually nigh uncatchable, but you just never know.


    • Good luck to you Golden Retrievers…. I’m going to New Mexico this week myself, maybe I’ll see ya on the trail, I’ll keep my eyes open…… have a great day my friend.. see ya

    • It’s not the Thrill Of The Chase anylonger..
      It’s the Sprint to the finish.

      Who agrees…

      • But I am too old to run – So, you guys ahead of me – scare away the bears, smooth out the path and leave me a bottle of water – and a chair if you don’t mind 🙂 JDA AND TRY and STAY SAFE ALL

        • The path arg. Not looking forward to this one. And the bears holy€#!%. Please don’t remind me.

  11. I was sure glad, when Forrest stated
    TC not being (near, around, etc),,a structure,
    Cause I was sure fixated on the
    small RR. bridge across Rail Road
    Gulch on the E. side of the Ark. R.
    in Brown’s Canyon. That statment saved
    me a wade, and probable dunkin.

  12. And you call also attach them end to end to create a large ‘ S ‘ now we have Skippy ; ) or…

  13. How many double entendres can you find in the poem:

    As I have gone alone in there ( alone being the key word in this phrase )
    and with my treasures bold, hmmm I thought he was alone, so who is As I and who is with my treasures bold. There are many scattered throughout but my favorite is ‘ Begin it where warm waters halt ( and take it in the canyon down )
    Seems to me the water appears to halt briefly before rushing down the canyon…. imo

  14. You know, this hew contest got me thinking of past contests, and also a couple of auctions that took place. One of them involved raffling off half digested pieces of money in a bag. Apparently Forrest’s dog had eaten an envelope full of cash, and actually partiallly digested some of it.

    When the dog finally produced the “change” Forrest washed the money and combined it with the rest of the torn bills. A raffle took place, with the money going to a museum I believe. The winner received the bag of torn up half-digested cash in a bag to do with as they pleased.

    My question is did the person who got the bag of money attempt to put the bills back together again? Does anyone know what became of those doggy dollars? Just curious.

    • Hi Sparrow,
      Do you think Forrest wrote a clue on the bills and that’s why we haven’t heard from the person who won them?

      • Hello Eaglesabound. It would seem if this was the case, Mr. Fenn would have known his dog would have got ahold of the money and eaten them.

  15. Just random odds/ends on my TOTC hunt/search…not sure I’m wearing the right glasses to see this thing? It’s a huge task – I’ll be loafers on the ground this June (LOTG).
    1. Animals/Pets
    2. Better be true (real) – not fake
    3. Sonething that almost didn’t happen / fate
    4. End is draw nigh
    5. Famous cowboy /whisperer / j Wayne
    6. Adrift
    7. Pilot stories / stars
    8. Unsolved Crimes / FBI
    9. Elbow Room / eye of needle / bible?
    10. (?)
    11. Gypsies / hypocrisy
    12. All ends w/love


  16. Will someone tell us what kind of car/truck ff owned in 2010? His personality and love of nature strike me as a Jeep driver… Does anyone know what he drove?


    • Dear Forrest, may I ask what type of car you used to go into the mountains to hide the Treasure Chest. ~ Bill

      Yes Bill, it was a sedan. f

      • copied from mysterious writings by the way and left off the quotes but here ya go:

        “Yes Bill, it was a sedan.” f

        • Thanks Aaron!

          That is the car he used to go into the mountains. I am trying to find the vehicle he owned. We don’t know if that was HIS vehicle that he drove into the mountains. That is what I am trying to ascertain.

          • I read on another thread that someone was trying to limit their search a location that was a day trip drive from Santa Fe. I know ff owned(owns) a plane and is pretty well equipped to fly. I was trying to use that information coupled with the fact that, as you quoted, he drove a sedan into the mountains to prove that he could easily have flown, rented a car, made the trip to his the treasure, returned the car, and flown back to Santa Fe. Thus limiting our search to the entirety of MT/WY/CO/NM that fit in the constraints of the other clues/tips given.

          • I can not back it up with a quote, but I remember someone saying that Forrest once owned a “Family type” Jeep – like a Cherokee or something like that.

            Wish I could be of more help – Maybe Cynthia or Dal knows – JDA

          • dawiser:

            In my opinion:

            You need the exact date that FF hid the chest. And, if you watched “absolutely everything” that FF said (despite there are contradictions), that would be between 2003 and 2010.

            This type of information, besides difficult, would be irrelevant.

            FF said it was a sedan, which (if he wanted anonymity) could be rented out in Santa Fe, Taos, Denver, Cody, Billings, Missoula, or even Canada. It would not make any difference.

            What really matters:

            It was summer, but FF said it could be recovered at any time. (clean roads or without much snow)


            He “parked” (there is a road near the hiding place) and walked a not very long stretch, probably part in a trail and part outside of it.

          • You know, I’ve heard that the little airports of the type that Forrest flew into usually have cars just waiting for pilots at no charge. No records would be available if this were the case.

          • dawiser—-

            No one will listen to me but what Forrest did is use “The Bullet”. He threw the chest in the trunk and drove it into the Yellowstone river.

    • dawiser,

      re. Jeep
      Search tarryscant.com for “Jeep” and there are two
      references to his own Jeep. Now, is a “Jeep” a “sedan”?
      I have no idea. Ask Seeker. He knows.

      Hope this helps.

      • A definition of sedan = an enclosed automobile for four or more people, having two or four doors. – To me, a Jeep qualifies – JDA

        • A sedan body, also known as a sedan, touring or three-volume sedan, is one of the most common types of bodywork and is the format that most people currently associate with the modern car.

          Basically, a sedan is a car with two rows of seats, with considerable space in the back seat for three adults, and a rear compartment, usually for luggage. This rear compartment is external to the passenger compartment and its cover does not include the rear window.

          Jeep Varsity
          Jeep had tried trash-ready concepts, adventuresome concepts, and modernized/futuristic concepts, but 2000’s Varsity was the sedan concept. Marketed for “urban adventure” (which we all know simply means sitting in traffic), Jeep had tried to sell the public on the idea that the Varsity would appeal to “young professionals who want the status and ‘string-free’ image of a European sports sedan.” But the 166.3-inch, 3,400-pound car with 19-inch wheels shared direct lineage to the Grand Cherokee, so of course it would be just as rugged as any other Jeep, the company promised. This was a no-go for consumers, who preferred to derby rental cars on the dirt track, not Jeep cars.

          I think no JEEP / SUV / 4×4 off-road, would fall into the sedan category.

          • Depends if you are using the dictionary meaning or the insurance company version. We have vehicle called ‘crossovers’ { the Honda Crosstour for example can come in a 4 wheel drive version }
            Is it a sedan or a SUV-?- by your explanation?

          • I have a Ford AWD sedan with 4 wheel drive.

            But it’s not off-road.

            What I mentioned in my review is that a sedan (even with four-wheel drive) is not an off-road vehicle like a Jeep or a 4×4 pickup. Therefore, it is not prepared for difficult terrain.

            If FF had to go where the terrain is difficult, it certainly would not go in a sedan.

            Honda Crosstour no is sedan.

        • Perhaps a less difficult way to look at this is to think about all of the folks who have actually been close to the treasure chest. Did they all rent or drive off road 4×4? I don’t believe so. What seems more relevant or at least interesting is his comment in regards to *other* mode while secreting the chest. Quibbling/prevaricating answer…

        • This subject about what car or vehicle fenn used is only interesting for the fact that, the family drove their 1935 Plymouth in to the woods to hide their belongings for the next season in YSP. There are many places a car can go. What we only know is fenn drove to ‘A’ location… lol.. he could have easily drove off road [especially knowing the area like he does] in just about any type of vehicle.
          Ya should have seen some of the places I drove my 65 Plymouth belvedere.

          The vehicle in the pic from the fennboree ‘looks like’ a 2011 or newer. So I don’t see it much help at all to know what a sedan is.

  17. Sparrow –

    HAHAHA! I bet the “blaze” is the brake lights perpetually illuminated!

    In addition to being a tried and true warrior and archaeologist, Forrest Fenn was also a secret physicist. The bulk of his profits from art dealing went to fund his research and subsequent discovery of a perpetual energy source derived from the skin of trout. It can only be activated when said energy source returns to the body of water from which the fish used to create the energy source have been returned. A glowing home coming of sorts. IMO. lol

    • You might be onto something Sparrow! He also said the last clue is where he parked his car in the parking lot at the Denver Museum…… Now I will be looking for Glowing lights in the water… Maybe we have to even cross the street at some point – perhaps to get to the “Put in” 🙂 lol…

      • So, I just have to walk across the street to the boat launch in the dark!!! Then look quickly down see the lights from F’s favorite car glowing up at me and treasure found? lol 🙂 or were you talking to sparrow?

  18. So,
    What’s everyone’s opinion… Do the “hints” in the book help decipher the clues, or do they give a general location where to start the chase? Aaaand Go!

      • I agree. You have to know what you’re looking for to find it. Which seems like the very definition of confirmation bias, but just as there’s one correct solve out of all the potential solves, there has to be some hints in the book that aren’t confirmation bias – it’s just a matter of finding which ones.

        • Put another way, I think you can strengthen a solve through hints. If you try to build a solve from hints, you could end up anywhere.

          • Well said FMC. IMO trying to build from hints will cause one to put in way too much research and who knows where they will end up as a result.

            After researching and reading the poem over and over and over I found that the poem and imagination is all I needed to find what I did. Once finding it I have found a few very strong hints in the books that are confirming enough for me. Not a ton of hints, but a few really strong ones.

    • The book helps to discover and think about the big picture… use its frame and put in the poem… after deciphering the word that is key and the first clues the book helps to confirm your new found opinion/solution… all JMHO! I must admit I discovered most of the clues in my solution by chance when I was BOTG… that helps to stay humbled…

    • IMO – Maybe they help you understand the clues with FF thinking.

      They show nothing. If it was to show something, why FF did not say this: “There are clues in the book’s stories as well.”

      He made it very clear: “Subtle hints to the clues.” “Abstract Stuff …”

      In my opinion, “nothing concrete.” What he said looks like it was more for the purpose of selling the book. JMO – J … M … O …

      Only that.

    • JimB, I think the hints give a general location of where to start the chase.

  19. What was that story where FF had to come up with some change to buy something? Something about it has become a brain worm. The numbers. But I just can’ t find it.
    Does anybody know what I am talking about?

  20. To think of “how” the poem was written:

    FENN: My style is homemade. It was bred with logic, hard work, guts, and imagination. And that’s all there is to it. It didn’t require money, it just had – I’ve always been a thinker. I lay awake in the morning after I wake up for an hour and I think, and I get ideas. A synonym for ideas is imagination. And I have guts. Imagination is not worth anything to you if you don’t have guts. But if you have imagination and guts and you’re willing to work, just back away, cuz I’m backing up to get a running start at you. And if you think that I’m being tough, then I wear that on my sleeve. I love that. If somebody hits you in the nose, it doesn’t take a genius to figure out what’s going on. When I got into business in Santa Fe, I went to a store up on Canyon Road that sold Kachina dolls. There were thousands in there. They were so thick you could hardly walk down an aisle. And in every open spot there was a little sign, “If you touched it, you bought it. If your kids break it it’s yours.” On and on and on. I put my hands – I got as small as I could and raced for the door. I thought it was gonna cost me a fortune before I could get out. I got home and I said, “I hate that place.” How can anybody buy anything if they’re not allowed to touch it? So I made a bunch of signs and put them around my business. “Please touch. I am responsible.” Seventeen years I owned my business in Santa Fe, a customer never broke anything. Why are we so paranoid? I had employees break things. I never had a customer break one. Why are we so paranoid? I pull up into a store, and there’s no parking. Your car will be towed, blah, blah, blah. So I go in that store, and I say, “Why do you threaten me? Why do threaten your customers?” “What are you talking about Mr. Fenn?” “You’re threatening me. Somebody’s gonna tow my car out there.” “Oh, that doesn’t mean anything.” I remember one time I was in Central Park in New York, talking to a cop. He was walking around. And I was tired. And there was a bench over there that said, “Wet Paint. Do not sit here.” I said okay, but I was tired, and the cop walked over there with me and we were talking about something else and I touched the bench. I touched the bench here, and touched the bench here. There’s no wet paint there. I said, “Mr. Policeman, what kind of city do you have here where you threaten me?’ The bench is put here for me to sit down on it, and now you threaten me, you tell me not to sit on it. Why is your city lying to me? Why doesn’t your sign say, “This bench may be wet. Sit at your own risk.” What’s wrong with that? Somebody’s not thinking. That sign was probably on there for two weeks, nobody sat on the bench for two weeks because the paint was wet. It dried in 30 minutes. I hate things like that. But, what are you gonna do? I mean, I sat on the bench. I thought the cop was going to arrest me because it said don’t sit here.


    • And this is why when Fenn says don’t mess with the poem, I mess
      with it. Forrest doesn’t like Rules pertaining to anything he is told
      not to do. So he does it! He has told us that in so many ways
      So I follow my own rules
      and I bend a little too 🙂

      • Interesting…in trying to solve the poem, I feel like he says “look here” but it’s there…as in somewhere other than “here”…that’s where I think the double omega comes into play…the path to the chest forms two omegas…when you get to the end of the second omega, then you are at the “X”…JMO…

  21. For that matter, why not start in
    Santa Fe Texas which is also right next to Quintana Texas hmmm
    maybe we should be doing the complete opposite of what he is saying in
    the poem wouldn’t that be interesting… Start at the end, end at the beginning??
    Too many ifs…

      • My heart and sincere condolences goes out to all the families. I just don’t get it. Kids/adults murdering kids.

        I won’t say where, but our daughter works at a military installation where access to her work place is NOT controlled by a gate. The thought of what someone can do is chilling.

        She wrote a congressman explains the situation and never got a response, but that was a few years ago when a different party controlled things.


  22. If Fenn is the angler, we are the trout and indulgence the fly….. Sure hope that the hidey spot is catch and release only!
    Just sayin……..


    Me: “Can you please turn the volume down!!! Can’t you see I’m trying to solve something here!!!??? Geez!!!!!”

  24. Lurker, you said “If Fenn is the angler, we are the trout and indulgence the fly….. Sure hope that the hidey spot is catch and release only!”

    Oddly there is not any body of water, a river, a lake, beaver pond etc in the Rockies that does not have some type of regulation by one of the 4 State Game Management Services, but there is only one State the has ever used this exact Term “Where Warm Waters Halt” and “Cold Water Regulations Begin”. I have lived in that state for all but 6 years of my 71 on the planet.

    Now my feeling is this, for what it’s worth, it is the first clue in the poem as confirmed and as stated by me in 2012, and several other times, long before the New Zealand Radio confirmation, it has not changed in those 6 plus years WWWH has a “double meaning”, one is and exact spot on a body of water, probably a river GAME AND FISH REG, but on a much deeper, on another level it is 32 degrees latitude, which is the most southerly border of the lower, warmer state left as one of 4 in the Rockies. Furthermore that latitude of freezing degrees has a Rio Bravo dissecting it, Bravo as it is know in Mexico…but we call it the Rio Grande River in US, so start at the bottom of this Big Picture at Texas, Old Mexico, and New Mexico at 32 degrees and each clue will move you closer to the chest according to the Oracle and remember “Important Literature” Borders on those maps are itty, bitty tiny tiny little diddies. 32 degrees, 37 degrees, etc just don’t forget the end is ever EVER drawing nigh. Where we make a left turn, right after no place for the meek, at the exact home of Brown, which if you recall Forrest said see below exact words I paraphrase: If I told you where Home of Brown was, you would go right to the TC. http://mysteriouswritings.com/forrest-fenns-possible-treasure-location-the-home-of-brown/ Forrest was asked about what the home of Brown was. He answered, “well that is for you to find out. If I told you that, you would go right to the chest.”

    How could that happen, unless the home of Brown was solved? Yes I solved it and still I cannot find the chest, so if I am wrong I accept that but this all Borders on finding the 10 X 10 X 5 itty bitty little line in the sands of time at 10,200′. Might as well stay home and play “Canasta”, which is a wicker basket made of willows. Willow are wood too? so are Aspens? Again so is PINE in Spanish.


    • well tom t we all that have been doing this a day or two know you live in new mexico coal news paper and bark dust is also a form of wood but i cant figure how youd get cold out of either of those

  25. Fenn’s “gut feeling” seemed to get many people out searching early. Is anyone actually left to search this summer?

    • 9=9: all attempts will have failed by the end of July, that’s my prediction. And I will eat Jake’s hat if anyone solves it before the end of June.

          • Counting the days – Humble and crow pie or elation – one or the other – JDA

        • GCG may end this all. To me, on paper, he’s the closest to solving. He has the best system in place for eliminating places based on the ATF cloud.

          He is the most adherent.


          • I wouldn’t think a system based on eliminating places would be a good way to focus on the mystery before us.

          • Lugnutz…your assumption is baseless and likely not even close to reality. To even try to evaluate what is posted here and base a prediction on such is pure poppycock….

          • FD

            What I mean is that he can look at 90 or more percent f the map and tell you why something doesn’t work.

            So if you tell him you think the treasure is Bozeman he can show you why that won’t work. I Bozeman is too low.

            He doesn’t get distracted by a rabbit hole that leads below 5000 for example.


          • Ken –

            I agree with you that reading what he posts wouldn’t allow me to make that judgement.

            I would think you would give me a.little more credit than that Chief.


          • Lugnutz…why would I need to give you any credit in regards to the post I made? I think you may be overstating your importance in the reality of the Chase. Don’t get me wrong….I believe you are an interesting character and enjoy some of your posts…but I fail to see where anyone here needs to pass *your* litmus test to have a chance at anything involving Fenn’s treasure hunt. Just curious really and not being mean.

          • GCG has been pretty quiet these days but I don’t think his quest begins for a few more weeks. Slurbs and JDA rank up there too in confidence with GCG.

            It’s possible zap will be eating a hat soon lol but who knows.

          • Ken –

            I am not basing my assessment of CGC on what he posted publicly.

            It’s my opinion that he has honed in on where the treasure is.

            But who knows? Maybe you know where the treasure is and you are biding your time.


          • Lug – Just adding my 2 cents. As we have been told by FF, the treasure is located between 5,000 and 10,200 feet, but that does not eliminate Bozeman as a potential PART of the solve just because it is below 5,000 feet, it just means that the treasure should not be located IN Bozeman (to make FF comment true) but “Bozeman Adjacent” at 5,000+ feet is fair game. IMO one needs to be careful eliminating anything regarding elevation other than for being the ACTUAL SPOT where the TC is waiting for me to retrieve. 🙂

          • Hey Lug,

            I hope that hat will taste good, uggg…..

            I guess you don’t consider me in the running, but that is okay.
            Its hard to consider because I don’t say much about my solve.

            JDA wil be getting me fine brandy. Maybe then again…..

          • CharlieM,

            I’m not in the running either… and that’s just the way I want it!!


          • Bowmarc –

            I am also of the belief that all the clues are together. So then, for me there is no part of the solution that is below 5000 feet. You may see that differently.

            Butch – I think you should ask GCG for yourself. I don’t know that he has said publicly. Sorry.


        • Gonna take at least 2 beers to swallow that nasty hat of Jake’s! 🙂

          • If you can’t get hold of Jakes how about mine – the one in the contest? Hot as much sweat on the brow as Jakes – but it might do – 🙂 P.S. I’ll buy the beer 🙂 JDA

          • Thanks morecowbell – $100.00 will buy more than two beers – maybe even a couple of kegs 🙂 JDA

        • It should be long forgotten by now…it persists only as a menu item less worthy than crow.

  26. So we know that FF made two trips from his car to secrete the chest and contents but I have not seen any confirmation that he followed the poem even on the first trip. All I can find is a quote from him stating that the clues should be followed in order. With this in mind, would it not have been possible for him to park as close as he could and take two leisurely strolls one afternoon, taking no route at all described in the poem? I think the poem is to be used in order to get to the right locality on a map where you can then drive, park your car and go for a short walk to the TC. The poem is nothing more than directions to the final spot, not the route one must take to get there IMO

    • I have a question for Mr. Fenn:

      When you hid your treasures, did you take the same path that is described in the poem, or were you able to skip some of the steps because of your familiarity with the area?

      Thank you Curtis

      The clues should be followed in order Curtis. There is no other way to my knowlege.f

    • Rexnest –

      I too, will give you credit.

      You can solve the clues and discover the location, BUT you still need to find the treasure once on site.


      • Hi Lugnutz,
        Thanks for that.
        That should be the easy bit… Just look directly below the blaze…
        It just means that if you have confidence in your solve, you can go straight to the parking lot and only have a short(ish) walk or hike to the chest. You obviously must have solved ALL of the clues to be in the correct spot though.

    • Rexnest:

      “To answer some questions and save others from being asked, I did follow the clues in the poem when I hid the treasure chest, although I hid it before the poem was complete. (Completed?) f (posted 6/5/2107) From Mysterious Writings

      People have debated the last part of this comment however in other interviews Forrest made it clear that since he survived his cancer he had to revise his original idea of the poem as well as the fact – that over the years he continued to refine it – in order to make it more difficult… So obviously the poem wasn’t in its completed form, until just before he decided to publish “The Thrill of the Chase.”

      • Thank you GCG, I appreciate your reply. I’ve done a lot of research but was not aware of this past debate.
        The reason I posed the question was because, although an 80 year old could well follow my full solve route, I don’t believe he could do the whole WWWH to indulgence twice in one afternoon but from the nearest parking lot, I think this could easily be done. I find it quite funny that my interpretation of the poem is an almost 30 mile distance end to end but leads to a relatively small (10 feet by 30 feet) area to be searched for the TC, probably even less with BOTG.

      • Because of this phrase from FF, IMO, “blaze” was not the original word he was going to use in the poem.

        I believe that events, shortly before the publication of the book, gave the word “blaze” to FF.

        IMO, the word would be the noun: “laze” (leisure)

        Just an idea.

      • GCG…Your, ” So obviously the poem wasn’t in its completed form,…”
        is pure speculation and I would add not probable. I believe you may need to rethink things if you are basing a solve on assumptions such as that. Others have the same opinion as you and that is fine…we all see things from a different perspective. Loco may feel generous and offer up a not so known comment in re this subject…
        Happy travels !

        • Hi Ken –

          You are so ornery lately. I wonder if choosing an Avatar of a haggard leather-skinned cowboy of ill repute has had an effect on you??

          Maybe you could just paraphrase the quote you think Loco would provide, would you?


          • lug…you so funny! To be honest…I am in very fine spirit…notice the gleaming smile in the avatar of the wizened cowhand. I fear your opinions are shaded by your lack of experience in such matters. Loco has posted it before…and I cannot see a good reason to do likewise. Certainly more outrageous comments have been made here without providing the source…right?

        • Ken –

          I understand you, I am asking kindly what it is you are referring to.
          So the “good reason” is because a friend has asked you humbly, hat in hand.


        • Ken,
          I have to go workout… so I don’t really have the time to put the quote up.. ha!
          But it seems reasonable that, to have a complete {complete?} poem… the chest must be hidden. Otherwise you have a little map to a location to have a nice picnic.

          • That’s what all of the misinformed are banking on. Fenn has *always* proclaimed he knew *exactly* where he was putting the chest…before he even wrote the poem. No map necessary for him to put it there…or anything else. Why would he need to finish hiding it *before* he finished the poem? Don’t strain anything *working out*!
            Funny stuff….

        • ken,
          I certainly haven’t based any of my solution on when Forrest finished writing the poem. It is largely immaterial.

          All I was trying to point out is what you said, Forrest knew where he was going to hide it and “was going to make it work no matter what.”

          He has said he didn’t need to reference maps in order to write the poem and so he certainly didn’t need to complete it prior to hiding it. I believe this is a pretty significant hint when it comes to the bounds of your solution…

          Additionally, “making it work no matter what”
          I believe this simply means Forrest knew he wanted the poem to have a certain degree of difficulty (meaning extremely difficult).
          Therefore the more difficult the better. He may have also figured out his vehicle or “avenue” for delivering the puzzle would be a poem – so he also realized this would provide certain constraints:

          Like meter and rhyme.

          Forrest is creative so he was going to work that poem and the language and the clues – to make them the very hardest he could.

          Apparently it worked out for him! But he was willing to sacrifice layers of difficulty or the eloquence of the poem, in order to use his special spot…


          • GCG…thanks for coming out of blackout mode to offer up a comment about this. I gotta ask why this particular comment? Something about the comment compelled you to appear…
            Let’s take another look…In Fenn’s newest book Doug writes the Forward and explains what he is told by his friend Forrest about *the plan*. “In that place he would conceal himself and the treasure, and then and there end his life. He would leave behind a poem containing clues to where he was interred with the chest.”
            Just this simple explanation should make it very clear that there is/was NO reason to secret the chest…and then complete the poem for some reason. Sure…I know…the comment will be made that he did not go there to die…so he was able to do things different.
            There’s more to it….but not my place to make anyone see it differently. When you go out to search GCG I’ll be thinking about you and hoping for your good fortune…

          • ken,

            My “blackout” period was a combination of life events all occurring at the same time.

            Following the Forums can absorb a large amount of time as you well know… Sometimes my life doesn’t allow me the luxury.

            Also there is a certain inspiration necessary for me to feel compelled to comment although admittedly this inspiration probably is more emotional than highly thought out. But here is some of my criteria:

            1) I don’t like confusion or conflict when I see room for reconciliation of different view points.
            2) I don’t like mis-information
            3) I want to promote the search and share my experience
            4) I am a Fenn proponent and want to honor the chase
            5) If I have something which could be provocative
            6) I want my ideas to be vetted, challenged & appreciated
            7) I appreciate my fellow searchers & the camaraderie

            So in this particular case Rex had stated early in his thoughts that Forrest:

            “taking no route at all described in the poem? I think the poem is to be used in order to get to the right locality on a map … … not the route one must take to get there IMO”

            I believed there to be clear errors in this line of thinking based on statements Forrest had given the search community. So I had an opportunity to clear something up. IMO


          • And your feedback is greatly appreciated GCG. It’s hard being so new to the chase (about 6 months), with so much older info floating around so constructive comments such as those given by yourself are massively helpful.
            I’m still trying to keep an open mind as much as possible regarding your answer though as everything else seems to fit so well, but that’s not to say I won’t go back to the drawing board for another possible solve if I am convinced that FF made two full trips from WWWH to the TC in one afternoon.
            It’s so easy to look at solves that others have come up with and think ‘well my solve makes much more sense than that’ but I try and take everything on board at the same time.
            So thanks once again for the people willing to share a little of the knowledge gained to help newbies like myself

          • Keep them guessing GCG lol. You hinted that it would be mid June a few months back but maybe you have grown impatient.

  27. Thanks Aardvarkbark,
    Exactly what I’m saying. He did not confirm he followed the poem, only that we should follow the directions in the poem in order to get to his knowledge. This makes me think that there could be any amount of distance from WWWH to the TC, but there must be a parking spot, no more than an hour (or there abouts) away to allow for two trips in one afternoon. This means that the final part could well be very safe for a young child to navigate (from the car park) but the actual solve may include some routes that someone may class as dangerous.

    • Rexnest…he has stated he followed the clues to secret the chest. There are a lot of resources available to research what is and is not relative to the Chase. Tarryscant at the bottom of the page is nice. The new search bar at the top of each page is handy too. There is a massive pile to sift through ! Good luck and have at it !

      • Hi Ken, thanks for your comment, I will start going through that when I get chance. I have a lot of research already and can not find anything solid from ff stating that he definitely did follow the route when hiding the treasure. Plenty of assumptions and the rather vague statement highlighted by Aardvarkbark, but nothing that tells me he did.

        • 6/5/2017 Mysterious Writings
          “To answer some questions and save others from being asked, I did follow the clues in the poem when I hid the chest, although I hid it before the poem was complete.(completed)f
          This has been debated to death as to what exactly he means…but this is a good comment to ponder. Have fun…

          • Many thanks for that Ken, much appreciated. So I guess he definitely did follow the (unfinished) clues in the poem when he hid the treasure then

          • Rexnest….read his answer carefully. Many believe he hid the chest…then finished writing the poem accordingly. No advice really from me…each searcher needs to be comfortable as they try to unravel things.

          • There’s a few ways to look at that comment;
            ~He finished writing the poem after words… I don’t think that’s true but who knows.
            ~ He completed the poem by completing the hiding of the chest… sounds reasonable.
            ~ He had to do something on site… which imo, might have to do with the blaze itself or the actual hiding/covering/camouflaging the hide spot.

          • He started the poem, hid the treasure, then completed the poem in a Montgomery Wards in Denver.

          • It IS interesting the many interpretations to be pondered…
            Another is that he is saying that he hid the treasure chest following the clues in the poem…the task was done before the end of the poem.

        • Rexnest,

          I’ll share another observation/insight/connection that I haven’t seen anywhere else in the forums.

          Let me summarize some of Forrest comments:
          — I followed the clues
          — I made two trips from my sedan in one afternoon
          — If I told you where HOB was I might as well take you to the treasure
          — If you know where HOB is then people might be willing to chip in for gas money for a share of the treasure.
          — If you search with a partner best to leave them in the car
          — If you wear a smile out on the hunt, you may wear a grin going HOME.

          This seems to create a very strong case that he parked at or near, where ever the “home of Brown” is.


          • Seeker:
            I think your comment about him having to do something on site is dead on. I also believe that the Blaze area is more special to him than any of us might know. Way more special.

          • Travis;

            It is my belief that the “Hidey Hole” (spot) is of far less importance than is the general area within which the “Hidey Hole” is found. The actual spot, in my opinion is “nice”, but I think that the memories that were created all over this general search area are more important than the actual hidey hole – All the way from wwwh to the final spot – JMO – JDA

  28. Remember Fenn once wrote that most searchers overcomplicate the clues, resting their solve on obscure knowledge or hidden codes-bending the poem to fit their solution rather than bending the solution to fit the poem

    • Very true Nanette, I think most people are losing track of this one simple hint. The solve I have is strangely simple with no ‘specialized’ knowledge required, most clues referring to place names and sits very nicely with all hints that I have found. No bending the poem to fit ANY of the clues.

  29. And I took that as the poem really not being complete until either the chest is found or Forrest bones laying ontop of the chest is found.

    Two can keep a secret if one of them is dead…

  30. Looking at or eliminating each piece of straw in the haystack will eventually get down to the needle, but to use that analogy of process of elimination of possible locations in searching for Indulgence, is just expensive and very time consuming folly IMO. You might as well play Canasta.

    Solving the first mysterious clue is IMO a more sound way of developing a method for locating clue2, 3, 4 but remember, time is of the essence and we do not have 10,000 years to look so if you think you have the clue one, you could be correct and the dividend is great, if the premise of elimination of locations can be done rapidly, ie having a state, a geographical work that fits, you could be onto a great vacation.

    Someone could be very close and walk right by, many have been within 500′ so why not look for the edge or ledge or lege, that might explain why you can’t just hike 500′ to it. That Borders on a conundrum or dichotomy of thought, why not just park 500′ and walk to Indulgence? Because there is a barrier, either man made or natural for the distance, but some have been 200′ but didn’t know it? Why? They missed the Blaze IMO.


    • TT- it costs $18 to cross the barrier. but thats good for two days.
      i think.

  31. McB we need to talk… I just got back. Confirmation on everything. Still very deep snow. Everything frozen. Confirm this and I’ll send my email. you and I are dead on.

  32. Knowing there are 9 clues in the poem is a great hint. So could it be possible the word “hint” is a clue?

    • Sparrow, I have believed all along that “hint” is the HINT.
      Works through out the whole poem for me.

    • Technically? imo, no… Yet we are told there are 9 clues and they are to be followed in fenn’s intended order { first actual clue / WWH }. Knowing that { there are 9 specific clues } seems important. However, what seems just as important is “riches new and old” ~ the riddle we need to figure out? Something that is key to the “9” clues? Or at the very least key to know where to start?

      Call it what ya will… “hint of” in the poem seems to be of key importance to me.

      • Hi Seeker, I’m interested to know why you put so much emphasis on ‘riches new and old’. I’ve never really put much effort into the first stanza after confirmation of WWWH being clue 1.
        I appreciate that hints are also in the poem but is this just Forrest’s way of confirming that fact?

        • Whether or not folks want to believe there are clues or hints in stanza one… there is information.
          “I can keep my secret where… and hint if riches new and old”
          Many like to believe stanza one is an intro to the poem, only fenn said every word in the poem is deliberate. It’s hard to pass by the first thing he says in the poem “Hint of riches new and old”
          Whatever new and old refers to [ from the book or in the poem ] understanding what that line means might open the door to solving the poem.
          It seems ‘9 specific clues’ must be followed exactly as he intended… but something has to get us there, to the clues, all the clues… Is it riches new and old?

          fenn’s warning that the path would not be direct [ I assume the path are the 9 clues ] but only certain when the location is know of [ this might be riches new and old ] Folks still want to find WWH… well.. unless we are told where to start… all WWH is, is be a dart toss in any section of the RM’s.

          So we have folks who have solved the first two clues… the question is; did they understand why they were there-?- the significance of having us start the clues at this particular location.
          Does riches new and old put the starting point / the first clue, into perspective?

          fenn made a comment [that has been an itch in my britches] that searchers “…they didn’t quit, they left the poem.” Is seems obvious to me they left because they didn’t understand where they were and why. Without that understanding, the next clue[s] are lost to the winds… because they ALL “left the poem” *apparently*

          More rambling and rumbling….

          • Seeker even our poem has borders, the searchers are just crossing the lines, ah borders when they get lost, the Big Picture is just too far to walk.


          • Thanks for explaining that Seeker, please don’t think I was knocking your statement, I was just intrigued by the emphasis you placed upon that particular line as I have always believed this was Forrest’s prequel to the poem and nothing more. I now get your logic. I believe there are clues placed in every stanza but I still believe that the ‘hint of riches new and old’ is describing the poem itself.
            It does leave the fact, as you point out, that very little help is given to locating WWWH, but is this not Forrest’s intention? I believe he has already stated that giving information away on the ‘home of Brown’ would likely lead the seeker directly to the TC so surely the same logic would apply to WWWH… I think that Forrest has taken into account the only way for prolonging the chase is to offer no help for several of the major clues.
            A ‘dart toss’ in various places on the map has given light to some great possibilities and one very credible complete solve for me that using logic alone could well have taken a very long time to realise. Just the luck of the dart throw I guess.

          • Rexnext ~’ very little help is given to locating WWWH, but is this not Forrest’s intention?

            Sure, and like you said, basically for all the clues… that is our job… but we need a starting point. Almost all think it must be the first clue, I differ. I think we are told or need to figure it, out with the information supplied, where the ‘all the clues are at.’
            Call that stage 1, if ya like.
            Stage 2 to is to decipher the clues references. That doesn’t mean we know where ‘those 9’ clues are yet, just what they refer to.
            Stage 3 is to bring the clues to the known location, beforehand, on a map or GE.
            Stage 4 is to go to the site with the information we interpret and have a go at it.
            However, I also believe there is a final stage 5… involving planning and observation.

            Stage 1 seems to be skipped by many or they pick a huge location; a state, a NP, etc. I think it’s much smaller in size.
            I am using this idea as per fenn’s comment; He followed the clues when he hid the chest. This seems to imply [ example ] a staring point such as at GNP, follow a canyon 50 miles, find hoB, then go another unknown distance to NPFTM, and then hop skip jump and drive to HL n WH etc. is not usable/likely.
            fenn would have no need to follow the clues over any distance, other than hiking.

            He tells us he walked less than a few miles, in two trips, from his car to the hide, twice.
            Tells us we should be able to walk several hours twice to our solve. I personally think the walk/hike is to get to all the clues… and the clues are relatively close and connected to each other. It’s at this point stage 4 and 5 kick in.

            Well, that’s my latest theory on the process of how it might unfold.
            But I’ll leave with this thought. Riches new and old.. might.. apply to the “answers I {fenn} already know ~ “tired and weak”. ~ stage 1?

            LOL, but don’t listen to me rambling, I have been told I over think…

  33. I don’t know about everyone else , but I only have one real directional change in my possible solution.
    Otherwise, I am taking “it” until I get to “ from there”.

    • Just got back from BOTG and made the dirrectional change but failed at BTS.
      Had agreat time but wish it was not 20 hours away.
      Found hints as I was leaving so I may be back.

      • The way I look at it, is that you could be just feet away and not know it.If you feel you were in the Right place don’t give up! Keep looking. I myself, I am going back to the same spot I was last year

      • Also, it’s funny that your handle on here is look for the X.That’s the one letter in the alphabet missing from the poem. Pretty neat!

        • A few years ago on a different treasure hunt I had my 4 yr old daughter along and she watched too much Dora the Explorer. When I told we were looking for the treasure she said “just look for the X” Thought it fit for this hunt. I hope to go back and maybe I need her along.

          • That is perfect! I love it and you are right… it fits to a T !! Happy hunting and good luck to you!

      • Sorry you didn’t find it. What state were you searching? 20 hrs is a LONG haul. Glad you found some hints. It is like that one good shot during a round of golf – just keeps you coming back for more – JDA

  34. A good discussion on this odds and ends section of Fenn site is one of what kind of person is most likely to find the treasure. At this point, after years of searching and many websites on Fenn with this bit of theoretical information and that, I believe the person who will find the chest will not necessarily be the person who has put in the hard theoretical work about its location. In other words, there is so much crowd sourced information, so much speculation by people as to WWWH and general locations, probably the person likely to find the chest will be a person who just likes to get outdoors, who has the financial means and ready access to Rockies to follow up on all the theoretical information floating out there.

    In short, this search seems, as in so many areas of life, to be breaking down into a thinkers and doers dichotomy, with the thinkers most likely to zero in on correct location and a doer most likely to retrieve the chest. It seems unlikely at this point that the retriever of the chest will be the same person who put in strikingly original thought work to solve it; in other words, it is unlikely at this point that a single person will come up with an entirely original solution and then go out and retrieve the chest.

    The longer the chase goes on the more information concerning it goes on the internet, and the more this and that theory and location is ruled out, leaving the person who finds the chest a not particularly original and bright thinking person but merely a person who goes out there, boots on the ground, and sweeps up last remaining and likely locations. If the search would have been solved years ago then we could all have agreed the finder was also the person with the highly original solution. But now, and with each passing day, it seems likely the finder will not be particularly identical to the theorist or theorists who zeroed in on the correct location. Particularly sad would be for the chase to drag on, to reach a point that incredible thought has gone into it, and then some person, not really original, just goes out there and finds the chest. And then the public of course will celebrate this person as if he or she did it all.

    Let’s hope that almost all our theoretical information so far is wrong, and that the chest is found fairly soon, and that the solution to the chest is highly original, and that the original theorist and retriever is one and the same person.

    • Daniel, Daniel, Daniel;

      You are going to think yourself into a hole from which you can not emerge.

      I could well be proven wrong, but I do not think so. BUT, I am very confident that I am about to find Indulgence. I have been searching for almost 30 months. Does that make me a “nubie” or an “old timer” or neither. Either way, I look at my solve as original. Sure I have read the blogs, and contributed to them. Have the blogs “Given” me my solve? Heck no! I applied logic to the selection of my WWWH 29 months ago, and it has not changed. The same goes for my Canyon Down – etc. all of the way to my end place. My Heavy Loads and Water High have changed, but all within a very limited search area.

      If I find Indulgence, I do NOT plan on divulging my solve for some time. I want other searchers to continue to get out into the mountains and I want others to experience the thrill of solving the riddles. I WILL disclose my general search area, so figuring out my starting point – my wwwh – will be quite easy – so others will at least know that they are starting at the right spot. IF I find it – This can be your NEW beginning.

      Excuse me for saying so, but your post is a cop-out. IF you want to quit – QUIT! If you want to stay – STAY! It is up to you, but do it honestly. Don’t create a bunch of excuses for yourself – your own justifications for why you quit. If it is no longer fun – quit. If you can not figure out where you went wrong, or can not figure out a new starting point – quit.

      If, on the other hand, the chase still holds a thrill – stay. If you can figure out where you went wrong, – stay, and figure out how to correct your wrong. If you can figure out a new logical WWWH – Stay and follow the canyon down to past hoB, put in, and find a new Meek Place.

      IF I find Indulgence, you will have a NEW (correct) WWWH starting spot. Even with this new starting spot, solving the riddles will NOT be a walk in the park. Solving the riddles is HARD! But, you have the kind of mind that can duplicate what I will have done – again IF I find her. Nothing is guaranteed in life – NOTHING! IF you stay, and my starting place is correct, I will bet you a dollar you will NOT be able to find Indulgence this year – Next year? Maybe. If you win my dollar, you will have earned it.

      You do not have to stand under your dark cloud. Walk out into the sunshine. It is spring, stop and smell the sunshine!

      Sorry if I came off too strongly, but I want you to light that match under your butt and get back in the chase. If not, I don’t like sitting under your dark cloud – please move on – JDA

      • Will you be posting your solve after this trip (assuming you don’t find it)?

        I’ll hope for yes, but I think you’ll inevitably find some new wrinkle that needs to be checked so I won’t be holding my breath.

        • FMC;

          The probable answer is no – Whether I find it or not. If I do find it, I will disclose me general search area. If I do not find it, I will have to take time to reevaluate, and then decide. I am not sure that there are any new “Wrinkles” that I could discover, but who knows? JDA

      • Hi Daniel Paukert ,

        Thanks for your insight.
        I do agree with some of your ideas and theories and am not here to shoot you down because you are willing to put your theories down on paper.
        When other searchers disagree that’s fine but for them to be rude and “light a match under your butt” comments are just pathetic and childish in nature.
        These comments do not get anyone any further ahead.
        If you have not found the chest, and have it in hand then everyone’s ideas or thoughts are to be treated with respect and not to be crucified.

        • Jeff C.

          My “Light a match” comment was not meant to be disrespectful. OI was just saying that I hope Daniel can find the spark that he needs to get back in the chase. I think that Daniel has a bright mind, and I hate to see him give up, unless, that is truly what he wants to do.

          Daniel – can you honestly say that all of your ideas are original to you? Or, have you picked up ideas from others? It is most difficult to participate in the blog, and not pick up ideas from others. I DO think that my solve IS original, but yes, ideas presented here on the blog have helped me – and I thank those that have helped – including you – JDA

          • JDA, I’m just trying to look at this thing, this search, realistically. America is not a particularly intellectual country. So often the extroverts walk away with virtually everything while the introverts, who are often the best thinkers, get nothing.

            This search has as its objective a treasure, and it takes thought to solve the poem to get there. The thinking probably favors introverted type people, those who just like to think about any number of things. But the gold attracts like crazy precisely the extroverted not to mention the unscrupulous types.

            So the situation is one of plenty of people thinking about the problem, posting about it on the internet, and probably a rare thinker will home in on the problem, but the internet is also rife with any number of opportunists in any number of ways. Fenn himself apparently said not to send solves to his email because people might be hacking into his system.

            So it seems to me difficult to believe with each passing day there will be justice at the end of this, that an original thinker will also be one to retrieve the treasure. Probably the situation now with so much info on the internet, so many computer savvy people going over the information and doing who knows what else, it will be a group of people or individual not particularly original in thought who actually gets the treasure, which is to say like the usual in American life the more extroverted types will walk away with everything and the introverted will have nothing.

            I’d like this to be a hero story, that the lone thinker at home has a chance to solve it and retrieve the treasure, but the stakes are so high now, gold and glory, that we can imagine almost anyone and any number of groups of people turning over all the available information every which way and zeroing in on searchers in any number of ways and just plain doing anything for a scrap of information leading to the treasure.

            I’d like to believe in the best of people, but I can easily see this turning into a story about the worst in people. Gold has hardly a record of bringing out the best in people. In fact when has gold brought out the best? Is there any story about that? It is sort of like the film the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, but I can’t think of a gold story in actual life in which the good decisively wins.

            Maybe a good topic here on Dal’s site is whether a gold story exists in which justice is done at the end.

          • Daniel;

            I believe in Fairy Tales. I believe that I will find Indulgence, but am prepared for whatever outcome emerges.

            IF i find her, your faith in humanity will be restored. I plan on paying off three mortgages – Mine, and two of my wife’s children. I plan on paying off three or four credit card bills. I then plan on giving away almost all of the balance (after taxes) to family members, a few friends, and a couple of charitable enterprises. Money has NEVER meant much to me, and it will not now.

            The title is – “The THRILL of the CHASE” – Not “The Glory of Gold!” – It is the CHASE that is important. CAN “I” figure it out? That is the challenge.

            Am I an Introvert or an extrovert – or both. I was a “Technical” instructor or teacher for most of my adult life. You have to be a bit extroverted to be in front of a class every day. I am also a very private individual, who finds most social situations stress-full – So in many ways I am introverted. So I guess I am both. Is this good or bad or neither. I prefer neither.

            I hope to restore your faith in humanity. Sorry that the world – at large – seems to have hurt you – JDA

          • Sparrow – Not presently on my list, but one never knows. I gotta find it first, and then liquidate it, and I might be dead by then – Who knows? JDA

          • I have been a lurker but feel my solve is original,I use the information in others posts to confirm my area is not on soneone elses short list.Planning Botg in July.

      • Daniel—

        It’s getting close to the Memorial Day Weekend. I know that JDA is going to be making another attempt at finding the treasure. So I got up this morning and did what I’ve been doing the last several mornings.

        I opened up the box and took out my little JDA voodoo doll (it looks pretty realistic–even has a little gray beard), stuck pins in it’s head and repeated “you will not find the treasure–may your mind become blurry so you forget the clues..you WILL NOT find the treasure this weekend”.

        I have a few other voodoo dolls of searchers and usually pull them out when I learn they are making another attempt. But then I saw your post this morning.

        It made me realize how ruthless I am being, hoarding insights, and being completely selfish. So about an hour ago I destroyed the voodoo dolls (JDA is probably going to find the darn thing now) and instead began to wish the best for everyone in their search.

        It was tough to do, but I would encourage everyone else on the blog to come clean too. Using voodoo dolls in an attempt to prevent others from finding the gold I have decided is not a good thing.

        JDA—-I want to wish you all the best and apologize for using voodoo dolls ( the doll looks so much like your entry on the Hat contest blog it’s almost uncanny). If anyone else has voodoo dolls I would encourage you to destroy them also. We need to work together to solve this thing. All the best to everyone.

        • WHEW! I was wondering where those headaches were coming from. Thanks for destroying the voodoo doll, I MAY now have a chance at finding Indulgence. If you can do a reverse voodoo doll, and wish me luck and a good memory I sure would appreciate the help 🙂 JDA

          • lol JDA. I really do wish you the best of luck!! And I hope you have a lot of fun while you’re looking for it.

          • Thanks – and I am SURE that I will have loads and loads of fun with my family members – regardless of the outcome – JDA

        • Voodoo dolls… Ha!!!

          Everyone knows that sacrificing a Twinkie to Priapus is the only way to manifest true magic!!!

    • Daniel, I could not disagree more…
      If anything, in my opinion, a newcomer enters this chase at a great disadvantage precisely because of all the work of others… There are so many theories and so much “information” available that anyone new to this is in great danger of immediately becoming overwhelmed by the possibilities.. the great abundance of which, statistically speaking, is misinformation!
      There is only one solution to this puzzle and chances are, in fact Forrest has alluded to it, at least one and possibly many searchers have come tantilizingly close to it… But they have not yet found the chest…
      Whoever does recover indulgence will have an original interpretation of an old solution…. They will be a Renaissance man ( or woman) not unlike Fenn himself… Who was able to wade through all of the misleading chatter and put all of the pieces together where others have failed…. And they will deserve the prize and the credit for solving the puzzle!
      By your logic no one should deserve credit for anything…. Because there will always be someone who came before them and contributed in some way to their success….

      • I’m just trying to look at this thing, this search, realistically. America is not a particularly intellectual country. So often the extroverts walk away with virtually everything while the introverts, who are often the best thinkers, get nothing.

        This search has as its objective a treasure, and it takes thought to solve the poem to get there. The thinking probably favors introverted type people, those who just like to think about any number of things. But the gold attracts like crazy precisely the extroverted not to mention the unscrupulous types.

        So the situation is one of plenty of people thinking about the problem, posting about it on the internet, and probably a rare thinker will home in on the problem, but the internet is also rife with any number of opportunists in any number of ways. Fenn himself apparently said not to send solves to his email because people might be hacking into his system.

        So it seems to me difficult to believe with each passing day there will be justice at the end of this, that an original thinker will also be one to retrieve the treasure. Probably the situation now with so much info on the internet, so many computer savvy people going over the information and doing who knows what else, it will be a group of people or individual not particularly original in thought who actually gets the treasure, which is to say like the usual in American life the more extroverted types will walk away with everything and the introverted will have nothing.

        I’d like this to be a hero story, that the lone thinker at home has a chance to solve it and retrieve the treasure, but the stakes are so high now, gold and glory, that we can imagine almost anyone and any number of groups of people turning over all the available information every which way and zeroing in on searchers in any number of ways and just plain doing anything for a scrap of information leading to the treasure.

        I’d like to believe in the best of people, but I can easily see this turning into a story about the worst in people. Gold has hardly a record of bringing out the best in people. In fact when has gold brought out the best? Is there any story about that? It is sort of like the film the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, but I can’t think of a gold story in actual life in which the good decisively wins.

        Maybe a good topic here on Dal’s site is whether a gold story exists in which justice is done at the end.

        • Daniel – you said “realistically. America is not a particularly intellectual country”.

          I take exception to that.

          We are a country of innovators, hard workers, and to say we are not a particularly intellectual country is simply not true. I couldn’t get through your introvert / extrovert commentary after your America comment.

          Are you from America?

          • ~…the United States ranks seventeenth out of forty countries ranked in overall educational performance. Finland ranks first.Jan 6, 2015

            But I agree with Covert One… when it come to getting the job done, ya can’t be the USA.
            Although… we didn’t do such a hot job in the last election.

            Just saying…………

          • JDA,
            I’d rather have a couple hunks of gold and a copy of fenn’s bio… but sure, I’ll except.

          • OZ… Yep, you’re a wizard 10x over. I normally don’t do this, but … I hit my like button.
            Most honest three and a half minutes of TV…

          • DIGGIN DITTOS
            Covert One.
            If it werent for tutu
            We have kicked
            since 1775

        • What’s *justice* got to do with it Daniel? It’s a treasure hunt offered up for folks to get out in nature and see what’s going on outside their respective bubbles. Pop ! No harm meant by me…I just do not really see any validity in your perspective.

          • Plain and simple ken… And I’ll probably get yelled at for saying this. Daniel seems to be like some others over the years, making excuses rather than really trying.

            Oh! right! Only a Justifiable Opinion, to be politically correct.

    • Daniel,

      “The one who can best adjust” has been my all-original slogan throughout this adventure. My first three trips were to the RM(2 diff states), the fourth was to the 44th floor of a building in downtown Houston(Big Blue Cow… anything?), the fifth was to the boarder of Mexico/ NM., and the sixth put me back in Mts. Oh..I almost forgot, number six and a half had me headed to Key West but thankfully I recovered from losing my senses! I’m about to embark on the seventh which I’m aptly naming “Septimus”.

      Per an earlier post of yours: The trip to Yellowstone should have been worth the cost alone, chest or not. If you didn’t treasure the trip, the experience of the journey was lost…by you!

      Life=perspective; your outcome doesn’t have to be determined by your income. But with the right perspective…the outcome of your income may appear handsomely!!!

      p.s.- Mr. Paukert, under the premises, I would prefer not having my address below you being dribble runs downhill. Just funnin’ w/u, best of luck!

    • Daniel, Since TTOTC book was released in 2010, there has been given 90 percent of the information necessary in its self to find Indulgence, not including the ATF’s. Based on your theory that the TC will only be found by what you may consider blog lurkers, and or extroverts lacking in individual intelligence, imagination, and common sense OBVIOUSLY hasn’t worked yet, now has it. IMO I think you may be in that group. Indulgence and the end of Mr. Fenn’s rainbow will only be found by the one who has put in the hard work and earned IT. Again IMO

  35. Aaron—-

    What do you look like? I’m just curious is all, no worries. Could you kind of describe yourself, and possibly what you might look like if you were, say, 6 inches tall? Again, just curious is all.

  36. Daniel, you seem willing to share detailed information about your solution and still think you may be on the right track. At the same time you are concerned about the finder being someone that hasn’t solved it themselves but have used information found online. It seems like a contradiction to me. If the finder using shared information bothers you then why are you sharing it?

  37. Daniel Paukert on May 22, 2018 at 9:04 am said:

    JDA, I’m just trying to look at this thing, this search, realistically. America is not a particularly intellectual country. So often the extroverts walk away with virtually everything while the introverts, who are often the best thinkers, get nothing.

    This search has as its objective a treasure, and it takes thought to solve the poem to get there. The thinking probably favors introverted type people, those who just like to think about any number of things. But the gold attracts like crazy precisely the extroverted not to mention the unscrupulous types.

    So the situation is one of plenty of people thinking about the problem, posting about it on the internet, and probably a rare thinker will home in on the problem, but the internet is also rife with any number of opportunists in any number of ways. Fenn himself apparently said not to send solves to his email because people might be hacking into his system.

    So it seems to me difficult to believe with each passing day there will be justice at the end of this, that an original thinker will also be one to retrieve the treasure. Probably the situation now with so much info on the internet, so many computer savvy people going over the information and doing who knows what else, it will be a group of people or individual not particularly original in thought who actually gets the treasure, which is to say like the usual in American life the more extroverted types will walk away with everything and the introverted will have nothing.

    I’d like this to be a hero story, that the lone thinker at home has a chance to solve it and retrieve the treasure, but the stakes are so high now, gold and glory, that we can imagine almost anyone and any number of groups of people turning over all the available information every which way and zeroing in on searchers in any number of ways and just plain doing anything for a scrap of information leading to the treasure.

    I’d like to believe in the best of people, but I can easily see this turning into a story about the worst in people. Gold has hardly a record of bringing out the best in people. In fact when has gold brought out the best? Is there any story about that? It is sort of like the film the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, but I can’t think of a gold story in actual life in which the good decisively wins.

    Maybe a good topic here on Dal’s site is whether a gold story exists in which justice is done at the end.


    I started a new thread so I could reply directly. I hope you’ve heard the story about the two boys that had the unpleasant chore of shoveling a stanchion full of manure. The first boy starts and gives up. The second boy is enthusiastic, because he knows there has to be a horse in there somewhere with all that manure.

    Not to trivialize your feelings about the search, but get back up on the horse and ride. Complaining about the situation is not going to change it – only hard work will. And if you’re not up to working hard, go do something else. Just quit your complaining here where some of us are doing the heavy lifting – we don’t need the distraction. If you have something constructive to say, please share. If you don’t have something nice to say, then keep quiet.

    This is not about what’s fair or just, it’s about reality – what is really real. Life is like that, hard knocks and all.

    This is all my opinion.

  38. The confident and cryptic undercurrent on this forum at the start of this search season is making me nervous. I want to find it, obviously, but more than that, I don’t want it found before I get a chance to look. Having someone else find it in my area before I get a chance to look there would be crushing.

      • I’d say about 30′ x 10′ to be searched at present. Can’t see me narrowing any further until I’m there with botg

        • With all due respect, I’m not worried about you, mainly because I can’t reconcile the need for all your solve iterations with my spot. So if you are right, it means my spot is wrong and maybe I’ll save some $ on a trip.

          • I hope to save you some money – but only time will tell 🙂 Good luck to Ya’ FMC – JDA

            FMC used to mean Fleet Marine Corps – back in the day 🙂

          • FMC: I take it that means your current spot is in southwestern Wyoming outside of Yellowstone since that’s the only way it could possibly be the same as JDA’s. (I could be more specific, but I respect JDA’s desire to keep his general location private.)

          • FMC I very much doubt that we are in the same area. If you want to take a simple test that will reveal to me if we are in the same area – email me at SculptorJDA@aol.com. You have to reveal to me something about your general area. I will understand if you do not want to take the test.

            Zap thinks your search area is in southwestern Wyoming. If it is, no need to take the test – we are in different areas. Sorry Zap, SW Wyoming is NOT my area. – – – But good guess – JDA

          • JDA: I based that assumption on a long-ago statement you made that it was a 5-hour one-way drive for you. Nearly impossible to get to the eastern half of Wyoming by car in less than 5 hours, and absolutely impossible to get to the northeastern half of Wyoming in that time. I would more accurately call where I think your location is as west-central Wyoming.

          • Are we playing the guessing game?
            JDA … I have you between 246 n 120. That should be close enough for horseshoe.

          • Seeker – you win the kupie doll. or how about between I-15 (in Idaho) and I-25 in Wyoming and between the southern border with the Utah/Colorado and the northern border with Montana – That ought to be close enough. JDA

      • That depends, FMC, on whether you mean 10 feet by 10 feet, or are
        using navigational units of ‘ , which means “minutes”. Big difference.
        And while I’m in “repetition” mode, have you used a dictionary to look
        up “halt” ?

        The above is my opinion. Yours may differ.

        • Halt; is to hesitate, break, suspension, pause, interval, interruption, proceed lamely, stop, stall, temporary change in direction, station / switches, a suspension of movement or activity typically a temporary one.

          What is your usage?

  39. JDA,

    Good luck to you my friend on your next BOTG trip.

    You sound very confident and upbeat.

    I also wish everyone else the best of luck in their search.

    Stay safe guy’s

    Ronnie the Scot

    • Thanks much my friend. IF I find it, can you get a refund on your plane tickets? I hope so. Upbeat? Well today anyway – Scared? A bit. Confident? You Bet cha’ JDA

  40. One more idea:

    The phrase:

    “From there it’s in place for the meek,”

    What does “from there” indicate?

    “From there” where warm waters halt.

    From where WWWH + CD begin “it’s no place for the meek,”

    In fact “all” the TFTW “it’s in place for the meek,”

    • The phrase:

      “From there it’s no place for the meek,”

      What does “from there” indicate?

      “From there” where warm waters halt…

      From where WWWH + CD begin “it’s no place for the meek,”

      In fact “all” the TFTW “it’s no place for the meek,”

      • McB,

        I agree to a point. I’m not sure HL n WH is in a canyon either. But, that would make hoB in the same relative area as WWH

      • McB,

        Major “props” on your mastering this tricky language English,
        and further for trying to solve the meanings and nuances in
        Fenn’s poem. (proper respect / admiration)

        IMO “from there” refers to the spot where you “put in” (park)
        your sedan and start out on foot into the hazards of Mother
        Nature. Before parking, you were driving down the canyon
        in the relative safety of your car (because it was too far to walk.)

        IMO, all the TFTW can be for anyone, brave or meek,
        because there is not much danger inside your car. The
        bears and the snakes and the mosquito swarms and ticks
        and tripping hazards and altitude sickness and hypothermia
        etc. etc. can only be a problem once you “put in” and start
        walking, it seems to me.

  41. Mr Fenn said “a searcher wouldn’t know they had the correct WWWH, untile they had the chest”. That statement, almost makes the other clues seem irrelevant.

    • This is called counter-proof.

      FF was talking about the researchers who were at the site of the first clues and passed straight through the chest.

    • I wouldn’t say that. If after the first touchdown you declare – we won!
      Aren’t you being a bit presumptuous? Far better to wait until the last play has been played, and the clock has run out. Same here. Until you have Indulgence firmly in your grasp – only then will you know for sure that you have won, and that your wwwh was correct – JMO – JDA

      • Hi JDA, That’s why I said “almost”. It seems to make the other clues less important, when they could be applied to so many other possible starting points. Just a thought. Good Luck with your search.

          • JDA, Like I’ve said, I’ve been keeping an eye on you. I wish you well in all your endeavors. Waiting to hear the outcome.

          • Afana,

            on May 22, 2018 at 7:37 pm said:
            Dal, hear hear !! I’ll drink to that, as I’m presently doing.”

            What did you mean by that?

        • JP,

          Once you understand WWWH + CD + TFTW, the clues will obviously become easier.

          That is to say: less difficult.

          But I think it will still be necessary to think a lot, to have a lot of imagination and mainly common sense.

          • Mcb, because I respect your dedicated effort in translation, my comment simply means I agree with Dal’s comments, and I’m having a few brewskies- beers.

      • Best wishes for an exciting and memorable trip, JDA. Thanks for all of your insights over the long winter. I look forward to hearing the solve.

  42. Is there anyone else besides JDA who thinks they might find it this weekend? What are the odds that this thing ends?

    • Morecowbell,

      I’m very confident in my solution… but I’m not going this weekend.


    • I am going soon… very soon.

      I also think I will find it. I guess time will tell


    • Well I am on my way and I‘m confident, but… BUT… chances are still marginal… I know that… I will know more by sunday…

      • Good luck TLo and safe travels.

        Ditto to JDA, GCG, TimM, Slurbs and every other searcher planning BOTG.

        • I was considering going this weekend. My son’s 4×400 team made it to the track finals in the county so I will be happy to be there instead. Good luck to all searching this weekend, and stay safe. I’m confident the treasure will feel the vibrations of my boots soon enough 🙂

  43. Well, good luck everyone.
    These posts sorta remind me
    of allied WW1 biplanes taking off from some
    airfield in singles and pairs, maybe even a flight of 4.
    . We all wish their
    endeavors success. as we wave to them on
    their way.
    But out there in
    the unknown, awaits the BARON FENN.
    What is the score now.??
    The BARON 200,,000, the eager for the kill
    seekers 0. (& I might be light on that number.)

    • Batty, IMO I think that was inappropriate, except for your first sentence. IMO

      • Lighten up Afana – I think BATTY was just trying to be a bit humorous – JDA

        • JDA, I understand that you are a retired marine, and I salute you for that. I will never find anything in reference or comparison to war humorous EVER, especially in reference to Mr. Fenn.

  44. Well said JDA
    Thanks,,, And yes, Afana,
    humor does indeed exist, even
    in the darkest of corners.


  46. What does anyone else read into forrest’s comment he made in the Six Questions interview, “I don’t want to broaden the clues and hints I’ve written about by pointing them out. What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve”? Do you think he is referring to an interpretation of a specific clue solve? Or more of a general theme like a transport method used? Or a location? Whatever it is, this one important possibility seems to be key to the winning solve…

      • Hi TLO I am 99.9 percent sure no one is going to get Indulgence for at least 3 or 4 weeks JMO good luck all ps take a big stick to keep MUD off boots & BEARS at bay.

        • I hope you‘re wrong…
          My big picture approach will keep me away from mud fortunately! I will write about my short trip (Berlin-USA-Berlin) next week and give updates about mud and wildlife…

          • Seems like another British Invasion is underway… The Hermits and the Searchers will be Rolling Stones looking for Beatles and checking out the Hollies while watching the Animals…

        • IF I was to throw my 2 bucks into the lottery pool, I’d go with the fourth week. I’ll even play the extra 2$ and call the day of the 21st between 6am and noon {mountain time}… She will be happy when she sees it.

          • LOL… it‘s kind of an easy bet after seven years and 350k searchers returning home empty handed! If you want to look smart you should raise your bet… even a 1:1000 is a safe bet!

            And by the way… the OP was asking for some ideas about a quite important FF-quote, so you‘re a bit off topic, guys!

          • Tlo, well last week JDA didn’t think analytical skills were that important so I skipped that part of the question.

          • FD;

            It may be semantics. I certainly believe in using logic. Are you equating analytical skills to logic? If so, I agree that analytical skills are important. If you do not equate the two, then probably not – JDA

        • TLo,

          It amazes me the reach that this chase has. I’ve noticed people like McB and Ronnie coming from other countries to search and I am in awe at the decision to put BOTG!

          What state(s) will you searching?

          Not trying to pry, just curious.


        • Clint why do you say that your so sure no one is going to get it in less than a month?

          • Travis: perhaps he thinks the treasure is at higher elevation and will still be buried in snow for another month. Personally, I don’t think it will be found in May or June — not because of snow or weather, but because no one has the right solution.

          • Weather = meteorological conditions

            Snow = Result of the meteorological conditions

            You (searchers) make things very complicated.

          • My solution is so simple and logical that nobody believes it!

            Everyone thinks it “has” to be complicated.

            It’s hard yes, but not complicated.

            If the first ones to search in the NM had simply read the poem and paid attention to the “places” where they passed, they would have noticed that there are traffic signs in the roads with suggestion of the clues!

            “Well”, as say FF in the book. “Well”, I don’t have the chest.

            They are just assumptions.

          • McB…this is a difficult time of year because of the folks that are SO sure of their solves. This always escalates others feeling they NEED to rush out and search before someone else finds it. It is not wise to rush anything in this Chase…regardless what others want all to think.
            NM has been one of the popular states to search and folks have beaten a steady rut into ALL of the popular search areas. I’ll speculate and say that your particular solve area has been one of the most searched areas based on what you posted a month or so ago.
            At any rate… be wise if you choose to share anything with someone you do not know…especially with you in Brazil. Stay *well* and don’t feel rushed…the chest is safe.

          • Zap –

            McB is synonymating anything. He is just providing the quote.

            I agree that the treasure can be retrieved in any weather, which includes any season, you know, because of the word any.

            McB – other that don’t hand their hat on the “season vs weather” argument will argur that Fenn said “probably” and that’s all they need to take his words to mean the opposite of what he intended.

            This is in my opinion.

          • Lugz,
            Quick and easy question regarding any weather.
            Is it of your mind that a searcher can get to the chest in any weather, or the chest [ where it lays in wait ] can be retrieved from, in any weather?

          • Here in town on the CO front range, we had a good 20 minutes of rain and hail yesterday afternoon so hard we could barely see across the street. Four blocks away some intersections flooded to a halt (not for long, but still . . . ).

            But you run into that on the trail in the mountains too – deploy rain jacket, hug a tree, and wait it out.

            Two feet of snow? -10 degrees? I dunno . . . maybe it really IS in the Denver Museum of Nat’l History.


          • Lug, good thinker.

            Do you know what else got me into “all” FF statements?

            When he said, “What if?” and “important possibility”

            I looked for variables throughout the poem, that could give me a direction. (I only worked on the poem for clues and ATFs for confirmation)

            I posted on the Blog most of the conclusions I reached (or all). I only gave full information to “two” searchers. And tips for several, by email.

            So if I’m right, which I still do not know because I do not have the chest, most here will remember my posts. I do not have an A’ha! I have instinct, suggestions, and clues very, very, very convincing.

            I work like this: I give ideas, advice, warnings.

            I listen to ideas, advice, warnings.

            And I let time test me, teach me. When I win, I usually split. When I lose, I pay for myself.

            If I am wrong, I am like everyone else; I’m still looking for a solution.

            I’ll have someone check the location of my solution. And for the moment I be quiet, because I think I spoke beyond what I should.

            And when you said the first time, that I had the right place to start, you were right. But I think only you thought so.

            I started at the right place: “What?” is WWWH – not “where?” it’s WWWH

            “Where” have very, very many. “What” only 5 or 6 easy to eliminate.

            Just my opinion. I can have been wrong, very wrong.

          • McB –

            Believe it or not, I think that you have an advantage because English is not you first language.

            Many here endeavor to parse the subtleties of Fenn’s words and sentences.

            You are looking at just he sated plain meaning. Fenn has suggested on several occasion that searchers do precisely this.

            Having read your posts I believe you understand WWH. However, there exists more than one possible starting location. (You referred to 8 or 9 possible). I do not know that you are considering the correct location. Understanding what WWH is referring to and knowing the correct starting location are not the same.

            Assuming you have the correct location to begin I do feel that you understand how close the treasure is to that starting point.

          • Lugnutz,

            You’re right. Understanding is not the same as finding WWWH.

            In fact others found “before” to understand “what” was the WWWH.

            I understood and found the WWWH. The zero mark of the clues.

            And it’s on a map. WWWH + CD + TFTW + HoB. And it only has “one” way.

            Same in FF poker = 4 cards (clues) and a wild card (the end). And play.

            Then there is only one way. Get down and pay attention to the game.

            JMO – McB

        • Clint, I have this humorous notion rolling around inside my noggin now of folks keeping mud off of bears at the bay… 🙂

    • Cowlazars,

      Maybe with the some of the procedes from the coins you could buy some post-it notes… 🙂 🙂 🙂

  47. from Zap: “Personally, I don’t think it will be found in May or June — not because of snow or weather, but because no one has the right solution.”

    While it is easy to make this assumption based on the odds and past performance, I don’t know how you can speculate that no one has the right solution. Most solutions are not even detailed here either after, or especially before a search.

    • For some searchers, Grizzly Bear closure areas also prohibit searching at certain times of the year, including May and June. Know your boundaries and borders and plan accordingly !

    • Hi Aaron: just playing the odds, which strongly favor failure as you pointed out. In my opinion, if there is someone who has the right solution, they are at most a lurker here and have not in the least bit tipped their hand.

      You have to appreciate that I’m coming at this from the angle that the only folks who have any shot at all are searching in Montana, and most searchers aren’t looking in that state. I know folks like you, JDA, Iowaengr, Copper, JBL, Afana, Rickinflorida, WY Girl, Kal, Mark, etc. would love to prove me wrong and find the chest in Wyoming. And Tarheel Searcher, Tom B, Tom Terrific, ROLL TIDE (whatever happened to him?), Clearly Clueless, Iron Will, Scott, Donna M. and others would like to do the same by turning it up in New Mexico. (I won’t even bother mentioning Colorado.) It’s just that I would search in Idaho or Utah before I ever searched in New Mexico, Wyoming or Colorado — that’s how certain I am that the chest is not in those states. But I strongly encourage those who are just as sure that it *IS* to go out there and prove me wrong. I’m sure JDA hopes to do just that over Memorial Day weekend.

      I know it’s just a pittance by comparison to Indulgence’s value, but I will follow the lead of another poster here yesterday and add $100 to the pot for anyone who finds the chest in a state other than Montana.

      • ‘Twill be a pleasure collecting that $100.00 Zap – Thanks, it will help with gas money, food and lodging 🙂 Well, I can dream can’t I? JDA

        • JDA: nothing would please me more than to reward you with that little bonus and shake your hand. Consider the $100 bill nailed to the tree (and no … not a Hamilton like in TFTW!) Hopefully Forrest has got the federal taxes covered for you — one Benjamin doesn’t go very far these days!

          • Darn, now – not only do I have to find Indulgence, I have to find a tree with a $100.00 bill nailed to it 🙂

            Thanks PCharlie – Hope you have a nice vacation, after my finding Indulgence one week before your trip 🙂 JDA

          • who’s holding the money? is this an illicit gambling ring?
            did I hear counterfeit bills? I’m in! I’ll officially add to that same wager…Jefferson is on the $100…right? Ok, OK a real $100 dollars right alongside Zap’s. It won’t be hard to find the person with the correct solve I am sure….

          • Darn, I sure better find this thing. I have Zap eating Jake’s or my hat – I have Zap, morecowbell and Ken all chipping in $100.00, and all I have to do is pay for the beers when zap eats the hat 🙂 OH, and find Indulgence. NO PRESSURE!!! 🙂 JDA

          • OOPS – and there was a bet with Charlie – A case of Grapette – or something like that – I know if I loose, he gets some nice brandy – Did I really bet a case of Grapette? I don’t even like Grapette soda – Oh well – Maybe Charlie will let me change it to Brandy UMM UMM good – JDA

          • JDA,

            Best of luck this weekend. Or else that Brandy is going to taste good.

            Good luck! 🙂

        • That’s hilarious JD. I was thinking exactly the same thing but you beat me to it. Good luck on your trip.

          And by the way. I just can’t resist the extra money being thrown into the pot (), so I’ve decided to move my trip up a month from the 4th of July, instead heading out on my bro’s b-day on 2 June, right after my hat contest submission. I’d love to give him a real nice, albeit belated gift.

          Take care have a bunch of fun.


      • Hmm, the $100 by itself isn’t a big deal but if you make the drive down to San Diego to hand deliver it I’ll buy you a beer with it 🙂

        In all seriousness, I am curious if your strong belief in Montana as the location is based solely on your version of WWWH.

    • Aaron,

      “The poem is like a map.f”

      Maps have subtitles and roads.

      Roads have signs board.

      I just found signs board that lead exactly to Blaze. Signs board of “all” clues, and in the correct order of the poem. I just can not read what’s written in Blaze. (GE does not go so deep)

      It is not possible that I am wrong!

      • Hello McB, the solution I am using requires no signs or place names; only geography. Not saying that the use of signs is the wrong way to go about it. Nothing is for sure until the chest is found.

        • Place names could be important. I suggest you show your
          “solve” to a trusted friend or relative, and ask for feedback.
          Sometimes it’s hard to find one’s own mistakes. Yeah, I know
          who I’m addressing. IMO.

          • Thanks for the advice TF. I have showed it to family and they love it. I have tried to be careful with place names since it is hard to say what will happen to place names in 1000 years. I haven’t totally avoided them in my processes but this solution presented itself and just happen to not require the use place names.

        • Rich,

          Sorry me,

          I do not make bets.

          I’d rather contribute even if I’m wrong.

          What I could lose, I would lose by giving as many suggestions as I can give.

          My solution is priceless, so much so that I sent her to other searchers who refused even to read it, each for her different reason.

          Searchers who in my opinion deserve to find the chest more than I do.

          Thank you.

      • McB,

        Will the signs withstand the test of time?
        Will they be there a hundred or a thousand years
        down the road?
        Perhaps the things the signs represent will indeed
        still be there many many years from now?

        Anyway, good luck to you and your enthusiasm.

        • D. Crockett,

          Will the signs withstand the test of time?

          The signs probably are not, but the places they refer to yes. As FF said about the clues.


          Here’s another suggestion: In a thousand years it will be harder to find the chest, because there may be no more signs to help find the clues.

          : )

          It’s getting better every time! : D

        • Swwot,

          I did not understand the phrase:

          “I wish I had your confidence right about now.”

          Can you paraphrase?

          Thanks. : )

  48. Haha JDA, maybe Forrest will be nice enough to write you a poem to find the tree 🙂

    • Hi Aaron: different wager. No time limit on the $100 bonus for whoever finds Indulgence in a state other than Montana. The hat-eating wager was restricted to someone finding the treasure before the end of June (since that’s what everyone was boasting about — that it would be found in a matter of a few weeks).

      And just as with JDA, I’d be happy to hand-deliver that $100 to you in San Diego if you find Forrest’s chest in Wyoming — especially if some of it ends up going toward a beer brewed in that county!

      • Ah yes, I forgot the stipulations of the had deal. So if I find the treasure in WY before the end of June you will be bringing $100 to San Diego and eating a hat. Love it. And yes it will go toward a beer brewed in SD County. We have a few decent ones to choose from 🙂

  49. JDA,

    You are keeping your solve and location close to your chest, or should I say your vest?

    I am watching your every move, I know where you live and I know what you look like.

    That’s the great thing about not having your photo on the internet, no one knows who you are.

    Have you ever considered that your house might be bugged JDA.

    I am watching you and maybe just maybe I am listening in too.

    You have been warned JDA, you have been warned.

    Stay safe and good luck.

    Ronnie the Scot

    • Cute – Cute Ronnie. I know my house is not bugged, my hearing aids have a special “BUG” protection device that would tell me if one were active 🙂

      Listen away my friend – IMy wife doesn’t like it when I “Talk Chase” – so little is said 🙂

      Counting the days – Counting the days. Thanks for the good luck wish, and I WILL TRY to STAY SAFE – JDA

  50. Lol JDA! Good one.

    So like a good Boy Scout, I’m sure you’re properly prepared…….as in having a VERY GOOD hat recipe.


    • It is a one-way bet 🙂 – I don’t have to eat the hat – Zap will have to eat it 🙂 – I will let him do the marinade or what-have-you. Salt and perrer to taste or what-ever 🙂 JDA

  51. JDA –

    From my club I offer the advice I offer all adventurers and explorers.

    “Some days you eat the bear, some days the bear eats you, but always dress for the hunt!”


  52. Question: After HeavyLAWHigh who thinks that FF has brought us to a geographical location to seek out the blaze (In the wood) Are do you feel it is at that point on the map you can find the blaze?

    • How about I throw a monkey wrench into the mix – Has anyone ever thought that HL and WH and the blaze are all one thing? WOW that is an idea I have not seen before, but an interesting thing to ponder. Just askin’ – JDA

      • They are not in the same place but converge in one place.

        A CREEK with HL and WH which flows into WWWH, south of HoB, west of Blaze.

        According to the poem.

          • McB;

            Since the treasure has not been found, IMO, there can be no facts – it is all supposition – JMO – JDA

          • McB

            I did not ask you anything. I pointed out the fact that what you wrote, you presented as a fact, and not an opinion, and THAT is against the rules. Working through translations must be a real pain. JDA

          • Very complicated. The chest will never be found that way.

              It was a fact for seven years, “only”.

            IMO – JIMO – JMHO – Just my opinion. “Only my idea. Just a thought. “It’s not a fact. –

            Hahaha – Calm JDA – You’re very tense!

            Your trip will be all right!

              And who knows, bring the chest and end our suffering!

          • Again JDA,
            How can you be soooooo confident you know the exact location of the Indulgence???

      • I have wondered about something and just wanted to see if anyone else had pondered this. That the verse that starts with “From there it’s no place for the meek” should go to the end of the poem?

        I know that sounds strange. But if you “take the chest and go in peace” you will also have to be quire careful, yet bold at the same time—getting back to your car will be “no place for the meek”. “The end is ever drawing nigh” because you have almost accomplished what you’ve come for. I don’t know how “There’ll be no paddle up your creek” would apply– but “heavy loads” (the chest your carrying back with you)–“water high”—you are headed back towards a dam?

        Just curious if anyone had thought about that.

        • Logically speaking, NPFTM is both on the way there and on the way back to the car.

          The way you suggest though would mean you find the treasure at PIBHOB, and we need clues to get back to the car? Is that right?

    • Hi Paul, I believe that HL and WH are waypoints confirming the correct route. Shortly after these, a blaze will be visible although I don’t think that this will be ‘in the wood’ but rather in an area defined by an omega. In my solve, ‘in the wood’ has a completely different meaning.

  53. JDA,

    • Thrillseeker;

      Give me a couple of minutes to think about your question and I will try to answer it, as best I can – JDA

    • Thrillseeker;

      I am probably going to hate myself tomorrow, but without giving away the store (I hope), I will try to tell you why I am as confident as I am about finding Indulgence?
      Let me begin by stating, as many of you know, I have moved stanzas 5 and 6 to a spot above stanzas 1,2,3 and 4. For me stanzas 5,6 and 1 are the hints, and stanzas 2,3 and 4 are the clues.
      So, let’s start with the hints:
      “So why is it that I must go and leave my trove for all to seek?”
      The simplest explanation of these two lines is that Forrest is asking us, the searchers, why we think that he hid Indulgence. Hidden within these words are a couple of hints that will be valuable later in the solve. Why does Forrest use “Go” and “Leave” separated by only the word “and”? Don’t “go” and “Leave” mean the same thing? Well, since “go” and “leave” both mean leave we have two “leaves”, or just the word “Leaves” – this is a hint that will be used later in the solve.
      “The answers I already know, I’ve done it tired and now I’s weak.”
      Again, the simplest answer is that Forrest is saying that after his bout with cancer, he was tired and weak.” Hidden in these words are other hints though. “The answers I already know…” To “Know” can mean to dig – as in “I dig it” or “I know it or I get it”.” So, “Know” can mean that at some point we may have to “dig” something, or that Indulgence is entombed or buried. Or, that we have to “get” it
      “I’ve done It tired”
      Very strange word usage. So, what did Forrest do? He buried or entombed Indulgence – tired? This makes no sense – well maybe it does. Tired can mean wanting or needing to lie down – So Forrest buried or entombed Indulgence “low down” or in the ground.
      “… and now I’m weak.”
      I buried or entombed Indulgence in the ground and now I’m weak? Weak can mean watered down – Like a drink that has been watered down. So, I buried or entombed Indulgence in a place in the ground that is wet or watered down or watery. Forrest did say that it is “wet” didn’t he?
      “So hear me all and listen good,”
      Listen up, this is a warning and a hint. Or, listen for a sound that will lead you to where Indulgence is buried or entombed. This sound may be associated with water, or, Forrest mentions bells quite often – Is this a hint? A “Ringing” sound of some kind?
      “Your efforts will be worth the cold.”
      Your efforts at finding Indulgence will be worth your standing, or even lying down in a wet marshy place. This place could be on the shaded side of a hill, or even in a “Kiva-like” hole in the earth.
      “If you are brave and in the wood,”
      If you are a brave, a Native American perhaps and in the forest…
      There is also a very obscure definition of “the wood” which will send the searcher to a specific geographical location in Wyoming. Sorry, I can not yet divulge this obscure definition.
      “I give you title to the gold.”
      If you are in the correct forest, you are close, and Forrest will give you title to the gold (IF you find Indulgence).
      “As I went alone in there…”
      This line tells the searcher that Indulgence is “IN” some place. A place that needs to be “entered” – Not a cave or mine, and yet a place that will be “entered.” Remember our “Kiva-like” hole in the earth?
      “And with my treasures bold.”
      To me, the treasures are memories… Forrest’s memories, as well as the memories that this “place” holds dear.
      “I can keep my secret where…”
      Forrest knows where all of these special memories are kept – It is up to us (The searchers) to figure out where they are kept.
      “And hint of riches new and old.”
      Riches = memories – Again, Forrest’s memories and the memories held by this place.
      So, we are finished with the “Hints.” I have not given you all that I know about the hints, but enough to let you know that I have given them thought.
      So, on with the actual Clues…
      “Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down.”
      As mentioned above in the hints. An obscure definition of “the wood” tells the searcher where to look in Wyoming. Once this is understood, finding the correct WWWH is quite simple. From WWWH take the only available canyon down both in elevation and in a southerly direction.
      “Not far, but too far to walk.”
      As per the preface to TFTW – about ten miles.
      “Put in below the home of Brown.”
      At about the ten-mile mark, down our canyon there is “something” that, with a careful reading of TTOTC one can learn is the hoB. It takes careful reading and a bit of imagination, but it can be figured out.
      “From there it is no place for the meek.”
      This one requires quite a bit of imagination but can be figured out. The “Place” is not dangerous!
      “The end is ever drawing nigh.”
      Pay attention to the word EVER – meaning more than once. End can mean border or boundary. So, there will be more than one boundary or border before you reach the “END”..
      “There’ll be no paddle up your creek” –
      Figuring out the creek will be no problem – at what point does this creek become non-navigable?
      “Just heavy loads and water high.”
      Think of the two – Heavy Loads – and – Water High as a single thing.
      “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,”
      The sentence is written in the past tense. If you had been wise yesterday and seen something… seen something in TTOTC perhaps, and now you spot something with BotG that sparks a memory – I have seen this before – It MUST be the blaze. Ta-Da.
      “Look quickly down your quest to cease.”
      There is an archaic definition of “Quickly” that will tell you where to look, and it is not at your feet.
      “But tarry scant with marvel gaze.”
      Tarry as in Tar-like – Scant – as a flat stone – Don’t spend a lot of time looking at the black flat stone – Indulgence is not here.
      “Just take the chest and go in peace.” –
      “the chest” = YOUR chest – take your chest – yourself – away from here content in the knowledge that you have just solved the first stage of the riddles.
      Forrest has said something to the effect that if you have not found it (Indulgence) go back to clue #1 – So, this is what you now must do. Start over at clue #1. You have to decide where this NEW starting point is. Is it back at the original wwwh? Or is it near where you now stand. Near the Heavy Loads and Water High location and the blaze. Good luck.
      I started over, and found a new wwwh place, a new canyon down etc that I know will lead me to where Indulgence is secreted. THAT is why I am so confident.

      You can not imagine how hard this was to write without saying what each line actually means, and yet giving you enough information that you can see my thought processes. Thought processes that give me the confidence that I WILL find Indulgence this week-end.
      I hope that this has answered your question, without giving too much away.
      Good luck to all – Have FUN – and TRY to STAY SAFE – JDA

      • Do t mess with the poem. FF has said. So you did it anyway. Why JDA. Weird in my opinion

        • I did not change any wording, just the order of the stanzas. I see the architecture of the poem as a circle. A circle has no beginning nor no end so, what difference does it make where you jump into a circle? JDA

          • Travis;

            I could have left the sequence of the poem the same, but then I would have had – Hint – Clue – Clue – Clue – Hint – Hint. Since Hints usually come before the question (or clue) I put all of the hints in one group before all of the clues. It did NOT change anything, except it made it easier to recognize what were hints, and what were clues. JDA

          • Travis and anyone –

            It doesn’t matter because JD isn’t actually moving stanzas. The solve works if you leave them as Fen intended.

            It’s really just a thought exercise.


          • JDA, I’ve sometimes thought the ‘circle’ started with stanza #’s 5 & 6 as well, and that an unspoken hint was to “go down 4″… meaning go down four stanzas to get to #5, but also meaning go down highway #4 (if you are in NM heading for Los Alamos) or go down 4 miles or 4 something else to get to “As I have gone…” Even tricker, maybe it was an instruction to go down 5 stanzas or miles etc. to get to “Begin it where…” The word ‘down’ also broadened to mean next or to follow.
            I do like your use of the word chest for the searchers own self. It meant heart/vault/rib cage & trunk in a couple of my solves. Good luck, pay off those mortgages this year!

        • In fact, he did not mess with the poem. JDA only anticipated likely clues links with later suggestions. It is easier to understand the meaning of the poem.

          For example:

          The “in” of the first sentence may have connection with the “in” of the penultimate sentence, and still suggest the origin of HoB, and makes all sense.

          I use the same system, but without going up or down stanzas.

          IMO of course.

      • JDA,
        First off… if all you are doing is repeating the poem once and not 9 times… I’ll give you a reason why that “might”- repeat “might” – be plausible. fenn has mentioned mirrors many time, one possible reason is… in a mirror you have two of the same, line of thinking. BUT imo, you failed to show how that would come about to a searcher.
        You use the line; “just take the chest and go in peace” and predict that “The” is “Your” as in “your chest” and not the treasure chest [many here would call that a red herring ]. It’s a far stretch for me to interpret that change, and yes, you change the poem.
        However, For that to be remotely usable, in my mind, you need to explain what trove means, vs. treasures [ which ya kinda did with treasures ] vs. chest… having chest not to mean the treasure’s box, but only hoping it means “your chest” as in the torso of one’s body.

        Oh! lol…. and I’m not diggin the “know” meaning as ‘I dig it’ resulting in, we need to dig. Nope, not diggin it at all.

        All in all, it was a nice little summary of your thoughts and process…

        IF, you should come back with an empty tank of gas… will you fill’er up here, or just drive by, again?

        • Seeker;

          I also said that “Know” can mean “get” as well as did. I expect to “get” Indulgence, not dig it out of the ground.

          No, I did NOT show the reflection of two of the same – I left that open to the readers. I HAVE figured out the reflection, or at least I think I have. I will soon know.

          I have explanations for Trove vs Treasures – I can’t disclose all of my secrets – IF I don’t find Indulgence, I will still try to figure out where I messed up, and try again.

          Hope I addressed most of your questions – JDA

        • Ha, is that;
          B.C. Before Christ and
          A.D. anno Domini? So that leaves, E.F. Everlasting Fenn? lol
          Eric and Forrest

        • I would think some would be concerned that JDA saw something in TTOTC book perhaps that he used for his blaze and not something from the poem.

          • You just might be right FD – Time will tell, and the clock is ticking – TIC-TOC TIC-TOC 🙂 JDA

      • Wow! I hope you‘ll have a good time and wish you all the luck there is! If you are going to find indulgence, you definitely earned it!!!! Have a great and safe trip!

      • Wow, JDA, that is the all-time most i have ever seen you share on your hint vs clue resolution. I think most of it makes a lot of sense too. You must be about to bust with excitement. I know i am and still have a couple weeks left. Best of luck on your search.

        Smoky 🙂

        • Thanks Smoky – Yes, I was fearful of divulging too much – I hope I didn’t, and YES I am EXCITED – JDA

        • Interesting. Personally I have a hard time reconciling most of that with the (paraphrasing)”why didn’t I think of that” comment and the “simplify” comment.

          But good luck nevertheless, JDA.

      • JDA I don’t agree with your solution of the placement of the TC, but I do agree on many of the “hints” as you have described below. with that being said, try this…

        “Your efforts will be worth the cold.” maybe consider that “effort” in physics means (One force against another force)… maybe that will help.

    • We all think we are going to find the Chest. But my next trip I will def bring it home. Snow was too deep.

        • Nice answer JDA. What were you referring to about the go and went and the “leaves” from above? Kinda left me hanging….

          • What is the meaning of “go”? answer = Leave
            What is the meaning of leave? answer = leave
            Leave plus leave = leaves. Later in the poem I have to look for leaves – like on a bush instead of pine needles etc. OK? JDA

      • TB: I think you are too high in altitude. Snow should not be a hindrance now.

          • Forrest most likely hid the treasure in late August…

            Although if you knew “precisely” where its at you could retrieve it in any weather – I would assert since only Forrest knows this, then waiting until not only snow is gone but the mud is fully dried up — is also important!



          • I assure all of us that where I’m searching is the Home of Travis Brown and my Kettle full of Yellow buttery corn. But yes it does still have snow. And the altitude is right where FF has said it would be!

          • Morecowbell: my comment was an opinion that at this time, any area where snow is still a hindrance is not where Forrest hid the chest. That’s a roundabout way of saying that I believe he hid it well below 10,200 feet.

    • I’ll never understand the physci behind the insistence of crow being on the menu when it’s not liked.

  54. Has anyone heard from Slurbs lately? I was hoping he would elaborate on his double omega comment.

    • Morecowbell, what type of elaboration are you looking for? What was it that I said about “double omegas”?

      • This is what you wrote Slurbs:

        “My opinion about the Double Omegas… They are highly significant to the finding of the chest. But, and this is a big one, DONT BE CONCERNED ABOUT THE DOUBLE OMEGAS BECAUSE THEIR SIGNIFICANCE WILL BE REVEALED TO YOU AS A RESULT OF COMPLETING THE SOLVE TO THE POEM. So, again, don’t concern yourself with them. Remember f said something along the lines that searching for the blaze is just expensive folly? Trying to make sense of the Double Omegas is the same folly 10 fold. Trust me, when you understand them completely you will have NO DOUBT that you have correctly solved The Thrill Of The Chase. None. N O N E ! Yeah Baby, yeah!”

        So are you saying that they mark something near the blaze like a rock or tree that tells you where the tc is or are they figurative?

        • Why do I write so much only to backspace it all? I just did it again. I will just leave it at that. I hope you understand. IMO, if you solve the chase, you will understand. Trying to understand the difference between apples and oranges might be easier to explain. Try to explain that to a kid. Better yet, have a kid explain it to you. You understand, right?

          • I understand perfectly Slurbs. You shouldn’t chance giving anything away.

          • Slurbs –

            In an interview Fenn was asked about the omegas and he replied that no one would ever know, it’s personal, he would take it to his grave. I do not have that interview.

            To me they cannot have anything to do with the solve.
            If I see that video again I will post it with a note to OAE.

          • Hi Lugnutz: here’s your quote:

            “The relevance of the double omegas will go to the grave with the man who wrote the poem” f

          • “The relevance…” We may never know WHY the Double Omegas are important to Forrest. We MAY figure out what they represent, and even where they are, but the WHY will probably always remain a secret – JMO – JDA

          • Zap,

            “A relevância dos ômegas duplos irá para o túmulo com o homem que escreveu o poema” f

            I did not find this quote from FF anywhere.

            He said this?

          • Sorry Zap, I forgot the translation.

            “The relevance of the double omegas will go to the grave with the man who wrote the poem” f

          • Thanks, Zap,

            This is confirming my theory that the omegas are of importance in solving the poem.

            He puts them at “the end” of what he writes.

            “ΩΩ is ever drawing nigh;”

            IMO ☺

          • Zap –

            I am actually referring to another instance, so this is great!

            If you, Zap, find the treasure tomorrow, you will not know the meaning of the Omegas.


            I will add that I have proselytized that they represent either the two most important people in his life or two lost people like Skippy and Donnie.

        • Strangely, this is exactly how it has happened for me. Found a spot I think is good and the double omega’s are very noticable. Hadn’t planned it, they are just there. (but then I’ve not got the chest, so means nothing at the moment) Just very interesting to see this post.

          • I think the omegas are life b4 n after cancer. Hence, I think the solve has 2 parts.

        • – Double omegas are “the end” of TTOTC.

          – “The end”, in the poem, is always close.

          If you find the blaze is the “your quest to cease”,

          Then the double omega will be connected to the position of the “blaze” and of the “chest”.

          It remains to know “what” are the omegas.

          IMO – and logical

          • McB’

            DOUBLE omegas – why two? Normal usage of “the end” of the book is a single Omaga – so, Why two?

            “Then the double Omega will be connected to the position of the “blaze” and the “chest”. Does this mean that you expect to see some kind of marking on the earth that connects these two points?
            Are these markings as shown – two Omega’s standing up? – Very Interesting – Just curious – JDA

          • My interpretation of the blaze is directly connected to an omega.
            Best of luck on your search JDA, Looking at your solve has really opened my mind to the depth some of you have gone to.

          • Thanks Rexnest – Welcome to the party. Six months is not a long time, but you seem to be doing well thinking things through – Good luck – JDA

          • McB you are right the Blaze is the Omega. It is the finish. And when you get there I believe there will be 2 of them. It just dawned on me that what the omegas are.
            Very nice Forrest Fenn. Very smart. And “WET” I/You know what They mean. Forrest Fenn you are so smart.

          • Just to drive the curious:

            In my solution: My opinion: My idea: My conclusion.

            I have an omega called “meaning of omega” which is one of the clues of the poem.

            I have another omega “on top” of the first omega which is another clue of the poem.

            The “blaze” is on the side, glued to the two omegas, and has two names. One of them is called the “meaning of omega.”

            My solution says that the chest is: “quickly down” of the two omegas and of the “blaze”.

            The “blaze” is 200/500 feet from where people go.

            It seems confusing, but this place is real. I just do not have the chest. All just IMO. ☺

          • This is way out there—but iowaengr posted a solve earlier today where the blaze was quite unusual (a sexual organ).

            Forrest did say that the secret of the two omegas “would go to the grave with the one who knows what they represent” (or something to that effect). What if the two omegas represent two balls in a sack (if you catch my drift)?—they would definitely go to the grave with the one who knows what they are wouldn’t they? iowaengr could really be on to something with his Blaze.

          • You’re thinkin’ Sparrow. And I thought that this search was”G” rated – Darn! – JDA

    • Ok, found my comment. I don’t subscribe to many recent threads. I can’t imagine what elaboration you might have in mind. I might try to explain.

  55. Hi all to who ever it may concern I have a 100.00$ saying it is not coming out of WYOMING TC that is and yes it can be found in any weather but at what cost.the same thing with the blaze can it be moved yes but feasible no JMO

    • Sounds like the finder is going to walk away with bonus money and some other oddities. Hmmm…..how will the finder collect when most are further away and if someone wants to stay completely anonymous? Loose lips can’t be had. Hat eating hard to verify.

    • Clint—-
      When you say it’s not coming out of Wyoming is it because the searcher lives in Wyoming? Just curious.

  56. My 13 year old daughter says if I turned that poem in ,instant F.She also says the colophon is the rainbow.

  57. I like the words of some researchers who, after coming back from BOTG, say:

    “Now I know where it is not.”

    Early researchers who passed 200 feet from the chest also said that.

    Because of this, I like to research where the “older” were.

  58. Does anyone think there’s only a particular time or Day the treasure can be found?

    • This last weekend I followed HUGE Grizz tracks for sometime on my way trek. I think I made the most noise and racquet I have ever made in my life on this last trip and carried .45 and 4 cans of spray.

      Be safe everyone.

      Oh ya almost forgot.

    • Thanks for posting. I hope it helps someone “semi-stupid”, because as the
      Amber Kornak story shows, “ya just can’t fix stupid.” All IMO.

    • MoreCowBell –

      Remember he has some theory tied to oreos but hasn’t said what it is yet. Just like anything else here, other people will say they understand, someone will look at a ScrapBook and comment, Oreos or Kettle Corn, and someone else will say “Bingo! You are on the right track.”

      Then some day, if we live to see it, some other Texas Redneck will find the treasure and those two guys will say See, I told you, Kettle Corn Oreos! Does it matter that it doesn’t mean anything? Not at all. Just ask the ABC Ducks!

  59. Here’s something for everyone to consider. It is a stretch and I hope I am dead
    (no pun intended) wrong.
    What if:

    The poem and book TTOTC were actually published by either a very close remaining
    friend or remaining family member of Forrest?

    What if:

    Forrest has already fulfilled his promise and is lying on top of his chest somewhere
    and the poem and book were left behind and found by friend or family member and
    they published the book in the hopes of someone out there being able to unravel the
    riddle of the poem so they could find his body and the treasure?

    What if:

    This is a real murder mystery and someone out there is trying everything possible
    to solve it with the poem and book?

    Two can keep a secret if one of them is dead…

    I could continue on this line of thinking but I think you follow me, after all I do need
    to remove all possible solves.

    I would hope that none of this is true but…

    With Memorial weekend upon us may we hold all who are dear close to our hearts
    and memories.

    • Let’s see – We have a murder that happened eight years ago – or longer. Someone writes a book and poem. An imposter steps forward at a slew of book signings and interviews. The imposter looks like, and sounds exactly like Forrest. The imposter shows up at Fennboree every year and convinces everyone – including old friends that he is Forrest – DARN GOOD ACTOR I would say. Sorry, I just can’t buy what you are sellin’ – JDA

    • * * * * “What if: (etc x3)” * * * *

      If any of that were true, Nanette, it wouldn’t change my WWWH.


      • Not sure I want to find Seeker’s body with the chest. It might ask a bunch of questions and give me some FF quotes. I just want to take the chest and go in peace.

    • Nanette,
      Nothing wrong with considering all the options, although I don’t think it quite works for TTOTC. You do have an interesting story line going there. Perhaps you could write a novel using that framework!

    • If you are not aware – If you click on the “reply” button, and then post, your post will appear below the previous comment – The way that my comment appeared below yours. This makes following a line of thought easier – Just a suggestion – JDA

      • Hi JDA I do have that BEN FRANKIN for you When and if you find TC in Wyoming and GOOD LUCK OORAH make me proud.let me know please so I can save some money ((.SEMPER FI))

          • Good luck jda! If you find my metal pickaxe you can have it. My searching partner is a former marine. He usually goes in there with more confidence than me, especially after seeing all the fresh bear prints. Be safe but brave!

          • JDA

            Good luck this weekend. Have fun and stay safe!

            We are rooting for ya!!


          • @JDA,

            Bets of luck to ya, and your crew. Hope you find it!!

            Out of curiosity, what is the average annual rate of recorded earthquakes, within the region which you are searching in??…..loco

          • Thanks Loco – ILasty recorded quake was a 2.1 in February – Not much of a problem – Take care, and STAY SAFE – JDA

          • Good luck & safe travels, JDA. I can’t think of a better way to spend this holiday weekend, than enjoying the freedom we have with family and friends while searching for a treasure. Thank you (and all others) that have served.

          • Thanks KK – Yes, it will be wonderful being out in nature with family and friends. Thanks for your Memorial Day wishes – Not sorry I served, but glad it is behind me. My thoughts and prayers go out to the families of those that gave the ultimate sacrifice – I salute them – JDA

          • @JDA,

            Thanks for the reply……2.1, huh? You’re correct, that shouldn’t be much of a problem.

            I was just curious because of a comment he made early on. It seemed, to me, that while it might be possible, he was minimizing the likelihood of an earthquake occurring within the region.

            Ah well, you and yours STAY SAFE!! later….loco

  60. Good luck JDA as well as everyone else in the chase our journey starts this afternoon 7 family members will be driving 1300 miles to our search area and we should arrive by Monday unless we decide to drive straight through. And yes our search area is in Wyoming but not in close proximity to Yellowstone.

    • Thanks for the good luck wish- and the same to you and yours.. You will be seven, My team will have eight – OOPS a population boom for Wyoming – JDA

      • Hi JDA – I hope all eight of your team stay safe and have fun! Good luck.

  61. My last suggestion:

    Ask an Argentine, who knows nothing about TTOTC, to tell you “where warm water halt”.

    You will discover “who” passed the “side” of the chest in 2011/2012.

    IMO of course. ☺☻

  62. Since this is “Odds and ends”, I’ll post this as it may affect some searchers’ plans this fall if the TC isn’t found and declared before then.

    Wyoming has passed legislation to allow the first Grizzly bear hunt in 40 years. Not allowed in Yellowstone National Park but south/southeast of it and Teton. Montana still illegal to hunt Grizzlies. Link below:


    Good fortune to all this summer and BE SAFE!

      • I’m hip, Seeker! I’m big enough that if I wore all brown on a hike I might be mistaken for an ole’ Griz from 300 yards away. Yikes!

  63. Ya know, I would like to see F’s gut feeling come to pass. Being he was a fighter pilot I’m sure he’s had plenty of gut feelings or whatever you want to call it. I’m going to do my best to show that he is correct.

    I’ll be venturing out mid June and hope to show a poem purist such as myself is going to hopefully solve it. Most of all F will know and have the pleasure before he moves on.

  64. Zap…just wondering if you’ve come to any further conclusions as to where in your solution things went awry? This is repetitive and you did say earlier that it was the *endgame*…just curious if you think it may be failure to locate/identify the blaze or something earlier?

    • Hi ken: still pondering the possibilities. Everything led to a particular destination as being one of the final clues, and I assumed that it was the blaze. It certainly “stands out,” is natural, and could not reasonably be moved/destroyed except at great expense and power (to say nothing of the illegality of attempting such). The trouble is that if this was Forrest’s blaze, it’s not a precise point on a map — it has physical extent, and I’m not talking a few meters. The adverb “quickly” is also a sticking point. It suggests close proximity between the blaze and the chest, but of course that could be a bad assumption.

      • Thanks for the reply. Pure curiosity…not fishing at all. Interesting that you believe you were correct up to the *found the blaze* and yet did not. Supposedly…the clues lead right to it(the blaze) according to Fenn. Perhaps the sticking point was before that? How far was the jaunt to your blaze?(from the parking)
        I’m speculating…but according to what you are describing…you have a pre- determined blaze? Is that true?

      • Hi ken: “Pure curiosity…not fishing at all.” I’ll pretend. 😉

        “Interesting that you believe you were correct up to the *found the blaze* and yet did not. Supposedly…the clues lead right to it(the blaze) according to Fenn.”

        My clues certainly led right to what I considered to be Forrest’s blaze, and they were determinable without being there in person.

        “Perhaps the sticking point was before that?”

        Indeed, could be. Or the blaze is a waypoint that is not in immediate proximity with the chest’s location.

        “How far was the jaunt to your blaze?(from the parking)”

        Not particularly far. Less than a mile, but certainly no 10-minute walk.

        “I’m speculating…but according to what you are describing…you have a pre-determined blaze? Is that true?”

        Yes, I did. Whether it is right or wrong, I think the blaze must be solvable without being on site, otherwise there is no walking to the chest’s location with a smile on your face.

        • I hope that it is ok that I chime in here. I personally believe that the Blaze is most defiantly a pre determined object. It will be just as obvious as the omegas in the back of the book.

          • Travis,

            I emailed you and Aaron with an analysis of the blaze’s role in the poem’s solution. I hope you enjoy.

        • Zap…no fishing at all. We could not be further apart in how we see the poem…for the most part. For me it is just a comparison exercise…only for thought purposes.
          I’ll remind you that Fenn has iterated several(look it up…ha ha) times, one of which is “…whether it’s buried or not you can find it if you can find the blaze. There are others. For me…the exercise is to follow the clues to where the blaze can be found.
          Fenn’s comments appear to suggest this. I do agree that it is probable to understand what the blaze signifies…or represents…but impossible to actually see until there. In this scenario the successful searcher can absolutely go there with a bigger smile if the previous clues are correctly deciphered.
          This is not an exercise to prove you wrong…just thoughts on how divergent folk’s ideas can be…and maybe tossing them around may make the difference.
          Last thought about the blaze today…Fenn has been fairly adamant that looking for the blaze before figuring out the first clue is not going to happen.

          • On your last point, I absolutely agree that the blaze is not determinable without solving the clues that precede it. There are “10 billion blazes” other there. No way to choose among them without being led to it.

          • Ken, Zap… this sentence struck me : “Fenn has been fairly adamant that looking for the blaze before figuring out the first clue is not going to happen.”… Of course you must start at the first clue to get to the blaze, BUT, do you think the first clue also informs about what the blaze is? Is there some logical or customary association between the WWWH and the Blaze? How adamant was Fenn? How did he express it? Was there a subtle undertone? I ask because I have recently deduced some new possibilities along these lines. Your thoughts. Thanks. OS2

          • OS2…”I doubt that anyone will find the blaze before they have figured out the first clue.” Every comment in this context has reiterated the fact that the first clue is a must before *finding* the blaze. I take that as…beforehand or botg…doesn’t matter to me.I believe folks can research all they want and the blaze is going to be incorrect every time unless the first clue is spot on.

          • Saying one has solved all the clues up to heavy loads and water high, being wise and found the Blaze “glance” down and your quest is over.

            Providing you have figured out the premise of TOTC book. You should and will be able to recognize and see the Blaze from a distance. It will be noticeable and you will know exactly what to expect when walking up to it. I know what the Blaze before boots on the ground.

            TTOTC has a premise everything blends and comes together as one. If you can decipher the sprinklings they tell their own stories. Freaking SNOW.

          • ken said….Fenn has been fairly adamant that looking for the blaze before figuring out the first clue is not going to happen.

            But can one find the answer to the correct starting place and therefore know the blaze?

      • Zap,

        Here is a thought that I had regarding the line “Look quickly down your quest to cease”…

        What is a quick look? Could it be a “glance”? That would make that line read like.. “glance down your quest to cease”

        Just throwing out ideas


      • Zap,
        Where’s the planning in your solve? Just packing extras socks?
        You said; ‘…I assumed that it was the blaze. It certainly “stands out,” is natural, and could not reasonably be moved…”
        What exactly did you do at this point?

        Quickly is a ‘movement’ and / or ‘time’ related. and can be both at the same time.
        Down could be a direction [such as south or elevation] to gaze at.
        Tarry means linger.. scant is small or short amount, of time?
        Gaze is to fix upon…
        Put it all together and we may need to see [ observer ] something “different” that will “stand out” for a short period of time.

        If you can find the blaze the distance to the chest would be obvious… well, how can something be “obvious” That involves a time span to see it?
        Unless the blaze is the exact location of the chest… we need to watch something [observe], take place to show us that obvious distance. fenn surely is not going to make the find that easy as to simply see a marker of sorts and it has an arrow scratched on it pointing to the hide.

        I’d bet… searcher who were near the 200′ distance point may have seen the blaze, even checked it out. IF SO, why hasn’t the chest been found?

        Does anyone at all go on a search with alternative ideas… just in case the first idea fall on it’s ass?

        • According to Fenn the 200′(feet AJ) people did not know anything…so I believe they would not even know the blaze even if they tripped over it.
          ” There are 10 billion blazes out there. So you have to start with the first clue and let it take you to the blaze.”
          I’d bet that the only way to know what/where the blaze may be…is to decipher the previous clues…starting with the first one.

          • Further… I believe that searchers whose solves fail…have quite likely failed the first clue phase. There’s those *odds* again. Maybe…just maybe…one or two this season have made it past the first two clues…but very slim chance on that even.

          • Ken,
            Lets assume for a moment the clues references are close yet, not exactly what we hope they should be. Without understand all the clues leading up to any point… folks seem to walk by all of them. However If a blaze is something that stands out, and some have been close to the chest… is it possible they were very near the blaze and never truly knew it? Sure.

            But was it noticeable for them to check it out?
            Now assume [ for the purpose of field thinking ] someone makes a small connection to this ‘object’… what would you / they do-?- especially if they have indicated the first couple of clues and something brought them to this spot to begin with… How standoutish does a blaze need to be to folks in search mode and walk right by with no idea at all?

            Is the poem much more difficult [ unexpectedly ] that many think… or can that hide be so well hidden, the blaze is very important to know of ‘beforehand’?
            I guess I’m asking… lol… is the blaze in the poem or only in the field?

        • I found a cool blaze that fits all the criteria. When I got there I couldn’t find a treasure anywhere. I tried to think on the mountain…I was there a while turning over logs and small rocks in every direction within 200 feet of the blaze. Then when I came back I read some more in the book and got an idea so when I go back I can search around more. Why I didn’t think of it then is beyond me….sometimes the easiest things seem so hard to think of at the time, in the heat of the moment.

          • Also, searching with kids is difficult….they have needs and it wears on you trying to help them, so you can’t think straight for long periods of time with constant interruptions – ” I found a cool rock!” – “What is this come over here? Moose tracks?” – “I see an osprey nest!” – “here little cute chipmunk, come closer” and my fave – “I gotta go to the bathroom”. LOL! I swear they suck your brains right out of your head 😉

          • Cool stuff! I think kids are a hoot. Fenn did say he wants sweaty bodies out there looking for his treasure. Maybe next time…take more kids with you and just sit back and watch them!

          • I failed to mention that before we got in the car I had the kids empty their pockets. One of them had an elastic waistband and his shorts were riding almost to his knees with all the cool rocks he attempted to take home! LOL! IT must have been 20 pounds!

      • Zap,

        I should have explained that a little more…

        I looked up “quickly” a long time ago and one definition was “directly”. That makes the line read, “Look directly down…”

        When you put the 2 words together as “Look quickly” which could mean “glance”… maybe that means instead of looking directly down from that point, you have to glance down,… or look at an angle .

        I hope that makes more sense than my previous post.


  65. (chant as though you were chanting U-S-A)

    J-D-A !!! J-D-A !!! J-D-A !!!!

    We’re all pulling for you buddy! Hope you find it this weekend!

    • Sparrow,

      You need to get in touch with Donald Trump and get him to change his cap from let’s make America great again.

      Too let’s make JDA great again on the condition that he brings the T.C home.

      Stay safe

      Ronnie the Scot

      • gl think ill do a sea biscut and catch up to win this one ty

  66. Guy’s,

    I’ve often thought about “Home of Brown” an artist can mix a number of different paints to get the color Brown.

    Could that be the case here, instead of looking at the color Brown, we should be looking at the other colors that make up the color Brown.

    Fenn has often told us to use imagination.

    What do you guy’s think?

    Stay safe and good luck to all you searchers.

    Ronnie the Scot

    • Ronnie the Scot,

      I think there is a reason he choose to call it “Brown” and not another color, or color close to it. It seems to be a proper noun to me, and not just a descriptive color- IMO.

  67. Good luck to everyone on their impending trip to look for TC! In Wyoming though I don’t think you will be coming home with the chest.

  68. To everyone in FennLand who has served, or paid the ultimate price for our wonderful country, thank you so much for your sacrifice, hard work, and never ending dedication. And we must not forget the families as they were equally important in maintaining strength at home.

    And Forrest, I would personally like to thank you for your service on this special national holiday.

    Please have a safe and great Memorial Day weekend all.


  69. Seeker & Ken,
    I came across what I believe is the key 2 days ago, located in the 1st stanza.
    It allows you to move through the poem and advance to your next area as long as you follow the clues.
    I had been looking at a possible chest location for a while but until I had the key I didn’t even acknowledge the blaze that was right in front of my face. I was too concerned with my marvel gaze. The point I am making is I don’t believe people can see the blaze and make the assumption that it is correct unless you have the key.
    Can’t wait to fish the Madison.

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