Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Fifty Four


This page is now closed to new comments. To continue the discussion please go to the newest Odds n Ends page.

Please click on the comment balloon below to contribute to the discussion of  Forrest Fenn’s Treasure Hunt. Please note that many topics have their own pages. Please scroll through the blog to see all the discussion pages. There are also stories, scrapbooks, searcher’s reports general information, tips from Forrest, a rumors blog and even email responses from Forrest. So please look around and if you want to make a comment please use the most appropriate page.




620 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Fifty Four

        • Alas no! but I can’t wait to see Wyoming, after all that is where it all begins IMO . Too cold to Motorcycle through Yellowstone in September?.

          • Hello Chris B. As the time gets closer, keep an eye on weather reports. Most times it’s fine, whereas, it also snowed a foot the evening after leaving Yellowstone in September.

  1. well im done with my kemo – I should know by next month if they got it all thank god its over I thought they were going to burn me alive it was hard and real painful – thanks to all for your well wishes – hopefully im done again thanke

    • Frank…that is good news! I was hoping we would hear from you soon. Best wishes for a speedy recovery.

      • thanks sandy its great to have you for a friend – will let you all know if its gone next month fingers crossed

      • Good you are here now and chemo free! Many blessings Frank 🙂 Forrest has the best fans ever.

    • Congrats Frank, Been There, done that 14 years ago. .. wishing you the best of luck and a bright future. OS2

      • OS2 – thank you sorry you went through the same – but im glad to see that you are still with us – thanks for the good luck I need it

    • Frank,

      I’m glad to hear your treatments are done. Count it as a blessing… a dear friend of mine was diagnosed on the 13th of this month and only made it another 11 days. She was in her 40’s…

      Prayers to you… keep fighting!!


      • thanks Tim sorry to hear about your friend – I pray that god will ease you and her family of the pain of her leaveing so young she is in a better place

      • thanks Jeannie nice to hear from you – haven’t for gotten about you – hang in there with me love you —-frank

    • Hello frank. Sorry to hear you had to go through this. Thoughts and prayers for successful results.

    • Frank,

      Good luck, I hope everything goes ok for you and everything is now clear.

      Ronnie the Scot

    • Frank, I don’t know if other hospitals do this, but in my hometown, a hospital has a bell. When the last chemo treatment is complete, the patient rings the bell on their way out and everybody cheers. Consider that bell rung and we are all cheering for you. Prayers from me as well for your healing.

      • JBL – lol thanks for the cheers – that is a nice thing to do if all hospitals did that they did give me hugs and wished me luck – I did buy all those that took care of me a gift for being supper nice and took good care of me these people are special in my heart just like you all are – god bless you all for your kindness in wishing me well it does help ease the pain -thank you—– frank

        • You’re very welcome. You sound like a very kind person. I’m sure the staff appreciated your thoughtfulness.

  2. I believe it’s still too early to recover indulgence so nobody should worry… of course jda could prove me wrong. Warm waters have not completely halted yet. You won’t know how important that is until you’ve found the treasure site. Best of luck to all.

    • Jake ~’Warm waters have not completely halted yet.’

      Does halt in your interpretation stop? Or no longer is present?

      I ask because of the fact others arrived at the first clue [first two clues] yet we don’t know when they did so.
      Although we d have part of fenn’s comment that says [paraphrasing] ‘others arrive … and are oblivious to the poem…’

      Some would like this part of the comment to mean tourist. I think they were still searcher but arrived by something read in the book or a guess on their idea of the poem. However, If they arrived [as you say] too early, What did or didn’t they see?

      The other idea that interest me about your post involves ‘time to search or planning’ which most do seem concerned about. IF you are correct… the poem can only work out properly, or as intended, during a short time of any give year. This idea seem to be more and more plausible as time in the chase moves on, and we have more ATF to ponder. “hid it in summer” “pack it in with winter coming” “wait till the mud drys” etc etc.

      So it sounds to me your location has underground spring water that only surfaces during this part of the year and drys by [ lets say ] June.
      I’m I reading into your comment remotely correct?

      PS. to be honest, I’m only asking for a bit more clarification / understanding… because… I can’t stand the fortune cooky style postings. I simply ask for a bit more of an idea to ponder on anyone’s given post. [ no insult intended, I get folks want to hold their ace card. But it would be nice to have something to actually chat about. ]

      My examples and thought come from what little you mention;
      ” too early to recover indulgence so nobody should worry…Warm waters have not completely halted yet.”

      Can you elaborate? and/or collaborate using fenn’s comments?

    • Jake–

      Sure your not confusing “when warm waters halt” with “where warm waters halt”?

    • Hi Jake, I thought you left….I’ve been on Facebook, I was overwhelmed and yes, I found another site.
      Computers are so fascinating.
      I love the hat contest, Mr.Fenns,Vikings what scream!

  3. So just got to view the Gypsies Kiss panel discussion with Marshall Moyle. Remarkable young man and the Treasure Hunt/American Rocky Mountain Adventure documentary he put together, completely epitomizes the fulfillment Forrest Fenn’s reasons for hiding the treasure…Interestingly enough the post production on that film took quite a bit of time and was a lot of work!

    Anyway the question for this panel was, Forrest’s gut feeling, regarding the treasure being found this summer; Yes or No.

    Sean provided an enlightened response asserting that Fenn chose the Summer specifically, as to NOT overly excite searchers into taking early season risk, for fear of loosing out to another hunter… I totally agree with him.

    Also here are Forrest exact written words:
    “I am rarely told exactly where people are searching so I don’t know if they are getting closer or not. My gut feeling is that someone will find it this summer.”

    So Forrest was asked if “searchers” (plural) are getting closer, to which he says; “I don’t know if THEY are getting closer.” Implying, the search community as a whole. But that community is very large relative to the number of people who share exact solution with him. So he can’t comment accurately on: “the search community as a whole”… However, he is also saying on a limited level, he definitely does receive a few exact solutions.

    IMO, Forrest is implying, that although one of these solutions wasn’t spot on and entirely “correct,” it still gives him the feeling it’s close enough, that someONE (a single searcher) will discover the treasure this year (or summer, if you are being accountable).


    • I do not buy the reasoning that Fenn said summer as to not cause too much excitement. I asked searchers here how many people searched already and I should’ve asked who hasn’t searched already as the those folks are rare.

      Lets face it, that gut feeling comment would excite anyone who thought they were close. If they thought Fenn was referring to them, they won’t wait until summer. My gut feeling says that the solver knows without doubt it is him/her and they know the difficulty to solve the poem, they know the key which gives them true knowledge of the solve and s/he will retrieve it on his/her own schedule, which appears to be summer.

      • I agree to a point 9=9. Why would he say this in February? Every year there are comments leading into spring…and no matter the content…folks see what they *need* to see and run with it. Then the chatter begins and the *sure solvers* start in…then the insecure get hyped and rush out to beat them. I believe this year is no different.
        It is definitely a possibility that Fenn read something somewhere that compelled him to check his gut…but I do not believe it involves him reading a sent email solve. He has said he doesn’t read them if they’re long…he scans maybe for key words. Why do folks send him long solves anyway? Why do folks make subjective videos of themselves and others speaking about how much they don’t know? Talking or tossing things around on an open blog seems more productive and less self serving…possibly even more in tune with overall participation. If the Chase needs a face on it to stay alive… the appropriate one seems obvious.
        9=9…spot on about the eventual solver…time is on their side.
        Hey frank—–hang tough and keep the spirit !

        • thanks Ken I am hanging in there- the waiting to find out is what is tough now – but thanks to friends like you is what helps me keep the spirit – thank you ken

      • I wish I could tell you all why I think it’s me, but you’re spot on with everything else, imo.

        I think insecurity about search timing is harsh relative to solve confidence. They’re not mutually exclusive.

        • Why can’t you say why FMC ? Generally speaking…how could it give away anything? I’m not buying what you’re selling….

          • It occurs to me that a deep thinking poster on HoD could theorize why.

            It’s probably just confirmation bias, but better safe than sorry.

    • GCG I think that the quote about someone finding it this summer is a quote from an earlier summer was it not? Last year or maybe earlier? Just seems like i saw that some time ago, do you have a date when that was first published?

      Not being critical but this old mind sometimes gets lost.

  4. Also in regards to the double OMEGA symbol; here is a lesser known quote by Forrest in Forrest gets mail:

    “If you start chasing horseshoes you may go crazy, but it’s the thrill of the chase, remember?”

    I would suggest that chasing double OMEGAs is chasing horseshoes… Please don’t go crazy with this!


    • Good advice. Something recently piqued my interest but it’s not part of my solve.

  5. Forgive me if someone’s mentioned this, I miss things sometimes…but has anyone else noticed ff’s Instagram page? There’s a blaze there, which I think maybe someone mentioned before, but also… that following list!

  6. I have a gut feeling we’ll be talking about omegas till we’re blue in the face.

  7. JDA,
    It’s been awhile since we have spoken big guy. I know you are out hunting your area, but I wanted to wish you the absolute best. Take care my friend. God be with you.

  8. OS2, I am replying to this post from the closed page:

    “Ken, Zap… this sentence struck me : “Fenn has been fairly adamant that looking for the blaze before figuring out the first clue is not going to happen.”… Of course you must start at the first clue to get to the blaze, BUT, do you think the first clue also informs about what the blaze is? Is there some logical or customary association between the WWWH and the Blaze? How adamant was Fenn? How did he express it? Was there a subtle undertone? I ask because I have recently deduced some new possibilities along these lines. Your thoughts. Thanks. OS2”

    I have one thought on what the blaze might be based on the poem and know exactly where to check. If it is not there then I feel like I need to have an open mind on site and look for something else.

    People can say whether or not they think the poem points them to a blaze but the fact is nobody knows for sure. Being ready to make changes on site is vital IMO.

    • Aaron…I only made that comment because everything that Fenn has said about the blaze refers back to the first clue. I think you are absolutely correct…*nobody* knows for sure. He has always iterated that the blaze can be *found* if the searcher starts with the first clue and follows the rest to the blaze.
      It is quite possible that the successful searcher can have a real good idea what to look for if the clues are deciphered correctly. I do not believe it can be seen before actually getting to the spot…
      When do you go out Aaron/

      • Take another look at the photo of a blaze Golden Retrievers posted. It resembles 2 eyes….or two I’s (two I’ s in first stanza). Fits the twin feature thought (twin towers, mirror images, twins in general), the double omega idea, and more. Not sure if there are 10 billion similar features but it’s a start.

        • That is a great comment Sandy…thought provoking and I have looked at that type of idea in regards to what to look for. Personally I think the Omegas are a dead end…as well as any number of similar symbols. I believe the blaze is significant only to the correct spot and cannot be known exactly. Who knows really…that is where I’m at. I just refer back to his comment about *logic* tells him if you don’t know *where* the blaze is it really doesn’t matter.

          • My thoughts as well, Ken. In Spanish, Miss Ford likely taught that ojo translates to “eye”….or to take it a step farther, “I”. (It also translates to spring). We have 2 eyes, unless one is covered up with a thumb. You will know it when you see it. IMO.


            Me: “Dang it, didn’t I tell you turn the frickin’ volume down!!! Can’t you see I’m working on the poem and need to concentrate!!??”. Geez!!!!”

          • PDenver…I think we’ve perhaps had this conversation before? I usually answer with “Father on the Banco”. There are Spanish words in common usage in the English language that we don’t have to “look up”. “Colorado” falls into that category…as do many of our “place names”… Salida, Buena Vista, Huerfano etc. etc. I hope you see where I’m going with this. All IMO!

          • Sandy…in the literary world those words are called *false friends*…Ernest Hemingway played on that technique quite heavily. Easy to hide subtle little bits that way.

          • Ken…ummhmm. 2 years ago I fell and fractured my humerus. It wasn’t funny at all.

      • Totally agree Ken. I have a 2 day recon mission planned for next weekend. My family and I have a 2 week vacation in the search area in the first few weeks of July.

      • I think this is because WWWH is the first clue, at the start of your journey, and the blaze is at the end of your journey. They are like bookends. You also need to be “wise” to find the blaze, and he said it’s not visible on Google Earth. So probably it requires you to be close, alert, and creative.

        • OnTheChase, do you have a quote from Fenn where he said the blaze is not visible from GE??

        • Chris B.: no, Forrest has never said that. The closest thing he’s said was about the treasure chest itself, not the blaze:

          “Is it possible to locate the treasure chest without ever leaving your computer and Google earth?”

          “No. It isn’t. Did I really say that? There is not a picture of the treasure chest on Google Earth. Was that your question?”

          “Yeah. I think that will suffice.”

          “Because Google Earth doesn’t go down far enough.”

          • Zap,
            He also said [paraphrasing] the ‘last clue’ can not be found / seen on GE… if someone thinks the blaze is the last clue, then that works for their theory.

            Kinda makes ya wonder, if the blaze equate to us looking and gazing, or is that [those next lines] the last clue.

          • Thanks for clarifying, I was sure I hadn’t seen a quote referring to the blaze and GE. ( small sigh of relief)

          • But does that mean that all other clues can be found with GE? No, not necessarily!

          • “Help”… that was the word I was searching for… thx McB. The old brain is full of cobwebs.

            Which makes sense if the last clue is actually instructions rather than a spot.

          • Seeker,

            I strongly believe that the last clue not be the blaze.

            There will be directions / instructions in the blaze.

            This instruction in the blaze can provoke the mysterious “marvel gaze”, or perplexity.

            To paraphrase the poem:

            “Look quickly down (IN THE POEM), your quest to cease”, (or “for your final journey,”)

            Then the poem provides a last clue, of the final journey, in the last two lines.

            “If you are brave (go where FF was at the beginning of the poem) and in the wood (enter in the forest)
            I give you title to the gold. ”

            Because only find blaze, does not seem to be a very accurate clue.

            My analyzes and thoughts only.

      • Ken,
        There is a difference in ‘found’ the blaze and knowing it is ‘the blaze’. …………… “Wise and found”
        I mentioned this before above… some of the searchers have been 200′ from the chest. Unless this is a heavy growth, thicket area, is it impossible for them to have seen something that “stands-out” even checked it out, but never “knowing” it was fenn’s blaze?

        So hears my thought… should the blaze not be right on top of the chest, and all the clue’s references are close at hand…
        Are we looking at a clue size area of less than 1000′ total?
        Fenn has only stated no one has given him the ‘clue in the correct order’ past the first two clues. Although some “may have’ four, but he’s not sure…

        Ya have to wonder if those with four correct clues [ IF on site ] were even closer that 200′ and may also [searchers] have been at the blaze… yet even then they didn’t know.
        In that hypothetical, and not unlike those who walked by everything and was within 500′ etc… Are they just not understanding what that object [blaze] is… OR don’t know what to do with it-?- even though it might be something that “stands-out” drawn their attention, and all the did was look down.

        Fenn said no one will stumble upon the chest, and said, if you found the blaze the distance to the chest would be obvious… What is the obvious part?
        IMO it come down two things… the blaze, marker [ call it what you will ] actually has a pointer scratch / carved in it.
        IT is a pointer of a different type.

        So sure, without solving the other clues you would not know what you’re actually looking at… but seeing folks have been so close to the chest… the next obvious question is; how far is the chest from the blaze. I forgot who asked that question but is sure had an impact of “knowing the blaze” when the clues are solve to it… that would need to be very precise in my book.

        • Seeker…sounds great. I think Fenn still holds that the 200′(feet AJ) is fairly accurate…beyond that I also think he said he is not sure searchers have been closer than that. Maybe some have. Even so(BUT)…I think that is where solving the riddle becomes paramount. The nine clues in the poem. I am not so sure size(total area) matters as long as the clues get the searcher there.
          I still maintain that the blaze is not a given until the searcher finds/discovers it. I believe that is the beauty of the design.

          • Seeker…I did see it and that is why I said *sounds great*. On one of my searches I found a particular geographic area/feature and experienced something I had never felt /heard before.
            Perfectly calm and cooler morning…I’ll say *in there* and the sun was not yet visible in that spot. As I moved further into this area, a noticeable current of air(very cold) was present to the point where it was making a noise through the rocks. At another point later in the(time related) day this current had changed direction…and the sound it made was different. Again, it was a very calm day. Because it was so noticeable and interesting I returned the next day….same same. I understand the science behind it and still intriguing to *hear* and feel. Cool in the morning warm in the afternoon….

        • Good post Seeker.

          In case anybody cares, none of the anagrams that I ever made from the poem explained to me what is the blaze.

          I think the blaze makes sense only in the context of where it is found. To me, that means the blaze is ubiquitous, but unique enough to mark a single spot.

          • Seeker…on 5/25 6:34pm you said “Let’s assume…” and whir talking about 8is it possible folks were close enough to the blaze to just *notice* it but not know. I have to believe Fenn when he repeatedly infers that the treasure will NOT be stumbled upon. To me this means that the clues(correctly deciphered) are precise enough to *direct/funnel* the searcher through any obstacle to the exact spot. The solved *riddle* I believe will be the *end point* by *design*… Thus making the blaze obvious…

        • No one picked up on my speling erea… ‘hears my thought’.
          They again, I have so many typos why would I expect that to happen.
          Anyways, ‘Hears’ was deliberate and about the blaze…
          A blaze and/or blazen is a sound. Does the blaze produce a sound?
          Example; could HLnWH produce a sound and that would be the blaze-?- something that “stands-out”?
          {Some falls are named just for that reason… thunder falls, for example; thunder fall in CO.}

          • I hear you seeker, but I hear things a little differently – But tarry scant with Marvin Gaye. So if I ever find the right blaze, my playlist would have to be 1. You’re All I Need To Get By, 2. Ain’t No Mountain High Enough, 3. What’s Goin’ On, 4. Ain’t Nothing Like the Real Thing, 5. How Sweet It Is, and Finally 6. Mercy Mercy Me. 🙂

        • my findings suggest that the blaze and the tc dont even exist within the same…reality (for lack of a more appropriate word).
          they cant because of a very functional word that occurs (within the poem) between the blaze and taking the chest in peace.
          that word is BUT.
          the function of the BUT (yes, im baiting) separates everything that happens above it from all that is to occur below it.
          the only thing that passes thru the BUT is the acknowledgement of the blaze, where it existed (done it tired), and how it applies to the physical realm (now im weak).
          tarry scant with marvel gaze is the deviation between the two realms and the monkey on my back however i am hot on its heels.
          its complicated to explain without revelation of solve but if im correct i plan to reveal all upon copyright protection of intellectual knowledge/process.
          did it occur to any other than myself that a solve can be copyrighted as such and if someone beats you to it or steals your research, they may have to cough it up?
          nah, thats way to corporate.
          lets keep it fun.

          • i respectfully bow my head in silence for those whom fought and sacrificed for our country

          • BadgeR…The function of the but….
            Nope…I will get in trouble if I go any further.

    • When you find:

      My thinks, for help us,

      There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
      Just heavy loads and water high.

      Blaze will not be visible at ground level.

      Because of this the poem says:

      “If you’ve been “wise” and found the blaze,”

      Why be “wise”? In what history has FF “needed much” to be wise?

      The blaze was also “not” visible from GE when FF wrote the poem and until 2014.

      This indicates that it is small.

      Today it may be completely visible on GE, and “very” nigh to:

      “There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
      Just heavy loads and water high.”

      Perhaps this is the reason behind FF’s “intuition.”

      • In German we say the wise man goes with a crooked back…. this works out fine with the ATF that the blaze is neither facing north nor south nor east nor west…
        As a result it needs to be small or at least flat… for the wise man to discover it while looking to the floor… all my crook…uhm humbled opinion…

      • Hey McB,
        The blaze was also “not” visible from GE when FF wrote the poem and until 2014.
        This indicates that it is small.
        Just wondering is this a Fenn quote? I have not seen this anywhere before.

        • “is this a Fenn quote?”



          The translator does not always translate the words as I write in Portuguese.

          I will say in other words: “Blaze might/maybe not be visible to GE….”

          It was not a quotation.

    • I don’t think the first clue or any other clue helps us decipher the blaze. I also think figuring out the first clue takes figuring out a hint in the first stanza. IMO, figuring out this hint makes one wise to figuring out the correct wwwh and blaze.

    • Thanks Aaron. I think my Q was not understood. I do think the blaze will have some thematic connection to Fenn’s memoirs, it will not be just a white mark on a dark rock or a Forestry marker of some kind. Thats why the finder must be ‘wise’.

      • He means wise if you can figure out from the stories the meanings of the stories and the whole premise of the stories. They all relate to one thing. And the one thing directs you to what the Blaze is. And the Blaze is literal. It is defiantly object that emits. Or did emit.

  9. Hi Folks,

    I put up a video to answer some questions and to explain the reasons behind my ideas to locate hints in TTOTC with the poem.. Check it out:


    PS: If you are military or have lost someone in the military, I want to take this time to thank you for your service!

    • Thank you, WyMustIGo, for your statement. I have not served, but family members have, and my nephew paid the ultimate price. He is being remembered/honored today on Jimmy Johnson’s race car. I will echo your appreciation and say thank you to all the service men and women who have paid for our freedoms.

      • Bowmac….
        That is a great way to honor some of our fallen veterans.
        Jimmy just got into a little trouble.
        I am still going to cheer for him…and your nephew!
        May all our veterans be remembered today, tomorrow, and every day.
        Freedom comes at a high cost.

  10. Update from SW-Montana: I have searched for one and a half day now and I can say I definitely burnt my solution from end of last season. I am as sad as I am happy and relieved… I will take the rest of my time here to sit down somewhere and finish my book.

    I‘ve been travelling with confidence, but in the end I am just one more sheep in Forrest‘s herd that was lured away from the office desk to discover a fabulous, fairytalelike part of the world, and this will be the treasures I am going to keep when I am returning home. I’ve kept the end of my novel open until this very day. My last search inspired me and so I feel like I can finish it without the gold in my hands but with even more gold in my heart and soul!

    Since I was never overconfident and tried to stay humbled when posting here, I guess I do not need to eat too much crow… a crisp wing maybe… hmmmm not too bad…

    Whoever wants to know about my solutions -we burnt five of them during our searches- can find me in West Yellowstone for today and tomorrow! I‘ll find me a sunny place with a cold beer and a notebook in front of me and you can recognize me by the clickediclack of my fingers on the keyboard… I am only willing to talk about them eye to eye, because they‘ll be part of my novel, which is already being translated into english (I have to write in German because my English isn‘t good enough). I hope one or two of you guys are interested and want to read it! I‘ll let you know as soon as I have a plan when it‘s going to be published.

    My solutions were always simple, I always tried to marry clues to a map and the results were funny, scary, thrilling and -for me- breathtaking adventures. We started as stupid newbies and ended up as experienced hikers, mountaineers, bearwhisperers, streamcrossers. One of my personal highlights was to shoot a picture of my former team and myself at the very same spot, where Forrest has been 71years earlier on the back of Lightning. Unfortunately Forrest never answered my short mail with both pictures -old and new- side by side…

    Well… enough for today… I just wanted to checkout with decency. Thank you guys for being part of this great piece of my life! I wish you all the best and every little bit of luck that you need!!! Cheers and best wishes, TLo from Berlin, Germany

    • Sounds like you had a nice adventure TLo. Enjoy the rest of the trip and finishing the book!

      Was there much snow on the ground in your area, and can you share the elevation? Thanks!

      • Well Aaron, here around Hebgen Lake there‘s absolutely no snow… even Mount Hebgen, Kirkwood Ridge and Sage Mountain are snowfree… don‘t know about mud because my trip was not going into the wild… creeks are running wild and high as mentioned before and temperatures are in the 80s atm.

        • TLO it is beautiful in that part of the country i have been there 3 times and loved every minute. what town in Germany is close by my great great great great grand parents was from Germany last name is Heltzel now Helsel change spelling a bit . Have a safe trip home.sorry you did not find TC it is to soon yet mud is not dried up yet

        • For sure they are high. Went out for a hike in the area today, gone two hours and the small river had risen at least 2 inches (it was splashing part of the bridge I walked over, and when I came back, it was splashing the entire deck surface). Lotsa now melt. Might take you up on talking your searches . I may stick around one more day

    • TLo…very nicely done ! My kinda guy….you killed me with the “crisp wing”…there’s coffee on my shirt now. We’re all Captains of our own ship…keep sailing mate.

      • Ken,

        I would like to pose a thought to you or anyone else. I truly believe that one can solve the entire poem prior to retrieving it, that also includes the hiding spot. I feel the following quote from F, 2/4/14 at MW is a basis for my statement.

        “The person who finds the treasure will have studied the poem over and over, and thought, and analyzed and moved with confidence.” f. Also the gist of a statement, the finder will go right to it.

        With my solve, I am somewhat familiar with the area which helped. I spent every waking moment studying the poem for a solid 6 months, although my wife was pretty perturbed and at the same time supportive.

        The words in the poem and its path can be seen from GE. Yes I know some think one has to put botg in order to find the blaze and some think botg from the very start. Things look different on the ground that it appears from GE and things have changed from the last up date of GE.
        But the path has not changed.

        Oddly enough I approached the poem as if a crime has been committed. (past profession). The few words in the poem that will not help in finding the treasure are, All of stanza 1, in stanza 4 from “But tarry scant to the end of stanza 5.

        I don’t have a big ego, and will be venturing out mid June to see if I am correct. I like to stay anonymous, and don’t care much for notoriety. This is merely a challenge for me.

        For me I can’t tell you any more than what I just wrote, I sincerely do need to hold the rest close and I apologize for being so obscure. I most definitely will show all of my solve after I return. Mid June is my last effort to find the TC,, no treasure no more for me., it will take someone more imaginative, analytical and wiser than myself to solve.

        In my opinion all can be done using GE and understanding of what the poem is saying. HoD’s cheat sheet helps and some ATF’s, for the life of me I couldn’t find a subtle hint in the book.

        All IMHO
        Best of luck to all in their searches.

        My greatest respect to all that has fallen and those that are injured serving our country and the lives lost that had returned with great suffering in their minds from horrific events.

        May all rest in peace.

        • CharlieM…nice to hear your ideas put forth in that humble manner. I respect that folks don’t want share their specifics.
          I agree almost totally with your take on the figuring. I think this is what the *imagination* part means…to see the solve unfold.

        • I completely agree. It can be found and walked right to before you have boots on the ground. One slight problem. You can’t get the boots on the ground.

          Although yes reading the poem and the book etc. etc. etc. has to be done. That there is a much bigger emphasis and meaning to this hunt this search this recovery. It is very deep and imbedded in Mr Fenn. This whole chase is something so close to his heart “literally” than any of us will know, until I get to sit with him and he hands me the complete cypher! The hidey spot as we call it. Maybe we should call it his admires lives respected resting place for many reasons I’m sure none of us will ever be told. It is sacred to him. He says his father planned out his entire funeral. So why would Mr Fenn choose a place that is so sacred to rest his bones. It is a sacred place. Choose your Blaze carefully it won’t just pop out at you. It is destined.

          Nothing nothing about this chase is hapstance. It is more premeditated that just 15 years. He had this place chosen when he was before the age of 18 and headed to military school.

          Mr Forrest Fenn thank you Sir for your dedicated service to this country and to the liberties I have. You give me life liberty and happiness sir!

        • have a nice vacation.
          i think you have excluded the most important parts.
          but who am i and what do i know?

    • I know that relieved feeling TLo. It sounds like you had fun and now have some nice memories that are to forever remain in your words that you write. Thanks for sharing. Dave

    • TLo: just wanted to let you know I very much enjoyed your post, and inform you that you needn’t worry about your English — it has always been excellent. I only wish I was up there in West Yellowstone to share a beer with you and learn first hand about your adventures.

      Now that you’ve achieved a sense of closure, that contentment brings to mind a German word that doesn’t really have an exact corollary in English, but I wondered if it fit your current state of mind: gemutlichkeit. The closest English synonyms I can think of are contentment and coziness. Rather fitting that that’s pretty close to what Forrest says “warm” means to him.

      Safe journeys and best of luck on your novel!

      • Wow, Zap! I really appreciate your post! Thanks a lot!

        Gemütlichkeit, yes, that‘s what I look for now! We have a phrase for that and it says like „Let your legs dangle“ as if you‘re sitting on a tree chewing on a buttercup and watch the sun… absolutely the best thing to fight that little depression after seeing your solve go down the drain… I think I will write one or two of our burnt solves to Dal with some pictures… maybe I can use the professional translation as a teaser…

        Let‘s see… if I have more ideas… maybe I‘m back in the chase sooner than later… in July I‘ll bring my 11year old boy to show him around! He should be able to find it as per Forrest!

        Thanks again Zap, Ken, Aaron and all you guys!

        • Your boy will love the area I’m sure. My boys had blast in Yellowstone last year and we will all be heading back again this year. Let us know when you will be there.

    • If your search did not include the Gallatin Canyon, then I suggest you use any spare time you have left to see it. Stop at Big Sky for lunch at the brew pub and then head back (assuming you’re leaving from W. Yellowstone).

  11. The most difficult part of the chase imo is getting from blaze to tc. It is maddening lol (imo).

      • I’m glad to hear you enjoyed your trip even though you didn’t find the tc TLo. What airport did you fly into to get to Montana? SLC then drive?

        • No Idaho Falls… I came up once from SLC but this 6h-drive killed us after almost 22h of airtravel…

          • I‘ll be at the Marryott directly at the Falls tomorrow… saves me a few bucks compared to the hotels in WY… so if there‘s time for a coffee, tea (red?green?black?) or a beer… I‘m in!

  12. I’ll drop by and say hi. I’m LDS so I don’t drink coffee, tea or alcohol. I’ll have a diet dr. pepper though.

        • I am now on my way from WY to IF… ETA 7.30… checkin, quick shower… 8.30? Where?

          • Most places (including bars) in IF are closed on Sunday or close pretty early. Jaker’s at 8:30 for a quick drink before they close at 9? That’s pretty close to your hotel.

          • If you have any other suggestions let me know. I can meet you anywhere.

          • Okay Jaker‘s sounds good! I‘m already in my room so 8.00 might be fine! See you there! I have long blonde hair, sideburns and a beer in front of me!

          • See you at 8 or close to it then. I’m short and stout from my German heritage lol

          • OK, now I just feel like I’m getting texts from a couple of folks I’m not intended to get. But somehow I must keep reading.

            I’d really like to see some texts from the crowd at Jaker’s saying ‘you won’t believe who just came in here’ and showing pics of a couple of guys who look like your avatars, for sure.

          • Hahaha a spaceman and an Iceman from Kamtschatka, Sibiria!!!
            But… it was great to meet this super nice guy and tell some stories… I think that‘s part of what the chase is for, right?
            Morecowbell is as cool and funny as the clip where his nickname‘s coming from!

          • TLo: thanks for the first-person report on morecowbell. With his avatar, I expected no less! Glad you two got to meet and swap stories — the camaraderie is what makes the Chase (and digital venues like this) so fun and entertaining.

          • It was great meeting you TLo and talking shop. I wish you safe travels and best of luck when you come back with your son. Let’s do it again when you’re back through this way.

  13. What great impressions…THE CHASE is global! It might be nice to see posts by searchers in their own language (script) side by side. Smiles are like donuts and are good that they come in dozens and are best when pasted around.

    A little off topic, but want to share a smile. A very close partner shared with me about some friends who have a five year old. The five year old was given a Star Wars sword, a toy that lights up as a diversion to keep him occupied on their trip to place flowers on the graves of loved ones. At one of the cemeteries the little one got out of the car and asked if he could bring his sword. When asked why he wanted his sword he said “just in case we run into whoever killed all these people”.

    Thank You to all the valiant and brave service personal, living or fallen who have sacrificed for others and forged a trail forward for us all.

  14. Just a thought… Forrest has said “to his uncertain knowledge no one has cosidered one important possibility related to the winning solve”. So, ” begin it wwwh, take it in the canyon down, nfbtftw. (Period here, end of thought) then, “put in below home of brown. When we start a paddle trip we begin at the put in spot. So what if below the home of brown just clarifies the starting point (wwwh)? Example: we’re going to begin our canoe trip at “x canoe launch, then down to y take out point. The put in (x) is just below the town of z”. This is how I’d let a friend know where our trip was….sound reasonable?

    • Reasonable? Sure. I have thought that this all takes place below the hoB.
      With that said… The “put in” I think could be screwing up the idea that water is involved, because of a common usage of “put in” as a nautical term.
      A WhatIF would be… you are already in a canyon to start with [ one with easy access / a path.. no climbing involved ] The simple Idea would be, you are already “below the home of Brown”… you may even pass it by on the way to WWWH… which now becomes TFTW. You “put in” at hoB because the chest is also “put in” ~ below the hoB”. Which is at a higher elevation.
      It is quite possible that a searcher could pass by all the clue’s reference attempting to travel to their WWH, passing by hoB and NPFTM references… where they should PUT IN… which means; “stay.”

      Just rambling and rumbling…….

      • Often times in some areas…a *put in* can be referred to a *trail head*. Not common …even so…it is true.

        • I’ve often thought that the “put in” could be any place you could pull up to in your car like an overlook, pullout or even a roads end turn around area… But from there it’s no place for the meek so you have to brace yourself for the cliff or drop off but there will be heavy loads and water high… Then I am hoping there will be a big white glowing arrow pointing to the blaze and I will look quickly down and see the chest… It sounds so easy!!!! Lol
          Just need to find that “put in” 🙂

        • Spallies, Ken,

          Both work well. Now the idea is that hoB would be Where you “put in” both being a trail head where you park to get to WWWH. This might be why it’s a stand alone sentences. In which case it’s not really a clue as much as ‘the location’ of all the clues. “need to know where to start” line of thinking, and “need to start at the beginning”… to nail down the correct WWH.

          The idea is that from the trail head, parking place, hoB It’s not far to WWWH… but do we need to go there? Is WWH to far to walk because the chest is at The [ ; ] semi-point. the 1/2 way point.

          • seeker – in my solve hob is west of wwwh – if you are looking at a map – you go up from wwwh (west) to hob that’s why it says put in below – hob – wwwh is east and hob is west looking at the map

      • Since you like to throw theoreticals around, here is one for you to chew on.

        IF HoB were a celestial object, then theoretically, a person could take any action at any time, anywhere and yet always be BELOW that object. Indians have a 6-point cardinal system with Brown = Up. Thus, this clue, interpreted this way, could be applied to ANY point in the entire search area.

        Further, one specific object, The Moon, could be considered a HOME as it is the domicile of the constellation Cancer.

        Now consider Margaret Wise Brown and her children’s book, “Goodnight Moon.”

        The possible linkages to the Moon as a reasonable solution to this line in the poem are manifest, yet they do not advance the solution to the extent that you envision absent a mathematical context. Math is needed to separate which place on Earth one needs to visit in order to pick up the chest.


      • seeker I agree that put in below the home of brown is where the treasure chest is – which is at higher elevation – put in to me means hid – all the clues are below hob at a higher elevation imo

    • Yes, Santa. Or kind of. I usually read it as “not far, but because it’s too far to walk, the solution is to put in below the home of Brown.”

      An oft-suggested visual for not-far-but-too-far is some variation on “it’s only 100 feet (not far), but it’s 100 feet straight up or down.”

      Though as Seeker says, probably not involving a raft or kayak.


  15. Sorry for joining this discussion so late, but it was a long drive (830 miles) home yesterday and we got in very late.

    “If you HAVE BEEN wise” – Past tense
    Wise – knowledge/understanding gained through experience

    So IMO the blaze can be predetermined before BOTG. Assuming the blaze falls in the correct order after following the previous clues, then precisely follow the next clue to see where it takes you.


  16. Thank you FD. I think I have a very good idea what it is and how to use it in my search. I should know in a little over a week if I’m right.

    And yes, we did have a nice trip, but after 2 months it’s always nice to be back home. Thank you for asking. We always head south to stay with relatives in Central Cali in the early spring and late summer for a few months to avoid the rain and enjoy their warm weather before the HOT days of summer hit the Central Valley in June. Our timing coming home yesterday appears perfect since they are supposed to be in the 90s this coming week.

    Take care………Pinatubocharlie

  17. How am I going to find this box when I can’t even find my other shoe…

    • I am sure he has a great time with the family out there and he‘ll be back on his smartphone as soon as he‘s on his way back…

    • ~ ‘Should be hearing from JDA pretty soon.’

      My guess… he found yet, another WWH, another, canyon, hob… Blaze and will need to go back at a later date to investigate it further and will know the chest lay is in wait at that section of a repeating poem… or something like that.

      I’ll give the guy credit… when he gets a thought in his head he goes all the way and beyond. But at some point, ya just have to say, I need to start over.
      Oh! wait… that is exactly what he is doing… rinse and repeat.
      My bad!

      • Your comment seems ugly and unnecessary. IMO.

        I’ll enjoy his search report whatever the outcome.

        • I thought the same when reading it…
          Seeker: don‘t you think less words could be more here and then?

      • If ya want to take a stroll back into JDA last 17 searches and postings upon his returned… I nailed it, as he has explained in the past. I don’t see it being any different, when he is doing exactly the same.
        Is my paraphrasing his postings any uglier than his original postings? Or is it unnecessary for me to repeat a posts from the blog he posted it on?

      • JDA is getting to spend time with family in a beautiful part of Wyoming, and seems to have an excellent disposition regardless of the outcome of those journeys. He is enjoying the process. Nobody is going to find that chest on their first trip out, and I would imagine a lot of folks throw in the towel after that first failed trip.

        But like Dal, and Cynthia, and Diggin Gypsy and a score of other regular HoD contributors over the years, JDA has shown commitment and persistence — necessary attributes for success in many endeavors, not just treasure hunting. An additional element that I think Seeker was trying to convey was the importance of establishing exit criteria in advance. In my own case, for each solution that I come up with, I attempt to answer the question, “Under what set of circumstances will I abandon this solution, either in part or in full?”

        Because of the ever-branching tree of forks in the road, even a binary choice at each clue would result in over 500 possibilities. No single searcher has enough time or money to explore that many options. This is why Forrest emphasizes the importance of nailing down that first clue: if your starting point is wrong, and there are just two possibilities to check out at each clue that follows, you’ll still have to run through 256 permutations to exhaustively explore all those incorrect branches.

        Perhaps we can now better appreciate the mathematical truth of Forrest’s May 2015 statement, “Those who solve the first clue are more than half way to the treasure, metaphorically speaking.”

        • Zap,

          Unless, the path is unique and without deviations, where each lane must be identified at the exact point and not be left behind, leaving the poem. This is what has apparently happened in the past with other researchers.

          IMO and my solve.

        • Zap,
          I was going to ask ‘why’ this can’t be solved on the first time out… but you seem to give an answer later on in your post… the possibilities that present them selves.

          While I agree [ mainly because most don’t know the location as fenn does ] that there may be a physical need to check the location out. However, Is that our misinterpretation beforehand, or do we need to be on site to workout the clues.. use them in some manner?

          There are many possible ideas and scenarios that can arise… but should the poem be understood properly, beforehand, why can’t it be that we simply walk through the correct process on the first try?
          I don’t believe the comment “walk right to it” was meant as skipping by clues or a full solve done prior, and go right to the chest. IMO it means you know the exact process needed to do to get there.

          IF you don’t have the first clue nailed down, stay home…
          That is a very strong statement and should require the understanding of how that first clue is so important, other than a simple starting point of the clues. AND known of beforehand… or… the start of the full ‘process’ we need to accomplish a find.

          Some one may argue fenn’s comment of, ‘not knowing the first clue without the chest’… yet, that is simply common sense, if one can’t produce the find, they will not “know” – be ware of – it being absolute / the correct one, out of the many. However, I think it also means we should know what we need to do when there… the entire process of the challenge…not just deciphered locations.
          The poem, imo. is only 1/2 the challenge [deciphering clue’s references] the second 1/2 is using them.

          • Seeker, your comment re: JDA reminded me of typical comments made by the prior resident grouch/bully that has since been booted from HOD. That doesn’t fit you and I hope you will continue posting thoughts like the above comment to Zap. You question/analyze everything which is good. I believe you were the first person questioning me after my BOTG in 2016. At that time, the only thing I couldn’t reconcile was that the chest is wet. Now, after adjustments, my solve includes the idea that the chest is wet. Now I struggle with the 500/200 feet issue. I think my solve makes sense with people being somewhere more like 800/200 feet. Anyway, all I am trying to say is, Jake’s hat doesn’t fit you.

          • I think you must have the poem solved through the blaze before you go on-site for a search, or you have virtually no chance of finding the treasure. The blaze can be determined from the poem, I believe, and will not be recognized on-site unless you know what it is.

        • Nice statement Zap…Tenacity comes to mind, and this Chase will definitely put that to the test.
          Fenn has pretty much said from the start that the odds are not in our favor…difficult but not impossible, 100 years. I agree that it will be highly unlikely for a searcher to succeed on BOTG # 1…or even #10….and I believe that is by design. Fenn’s own comment that you quoted at the end of your comment summarizes the difficulty and highlights the failure rate in one fell swoop. The whole challenge hinges exclusively on deciphering the first clue, and that probably is what a determined searched needs to base their continuing participation on.
          Honestly…I look forward to see what JDA comes up with and how he reconciles the situation. Carry on…

          • Why is that LIndianGrl ? The one who best adjusts…will probably make it to the finish line.

          • Ken;

            At the moment, I have to admit that I am a bit confused. Everything SEEMED to fit with my last solve. Forrest said – Simplify (That is close to Simper Fi.) So, If I can find a way to simplify my solve, and use the Marine Corps fighting spirit, I MAY still have a chance. Now, how to Simplify – Simper Fi – That is the challenge – JDA

      • Hi Seeker;

        Well, you are partially correct. I am back, and again No treasure.

        NO new wwwh etc. Is it in my search area? I still think so. Will I
        try again – Sure – Why not? It is FUN and Challenging, and I honestly DO think that I am getting closer. Have I made bad decisions? Obviously, or I would have the TC. Can I still make GOOD decisions? You Bet cha’

        So, I will take a double serving of Crow please, medium rare, and will finish off with a piece – No make that two pieces of Humble Pie.

        So, I now have one more place I know it isn’t. Good luck to all – Have Fun, and TRY to STAY SAFE JDA

        • JDA,

          I hope you and family had a good time. Sorry to hear you were not successful in finding the TC.

          That reminds me, where is my fine bandy? If you need my email ask Dal so we can make arrangements 🙂

        • JDA,

          Glad you are keeping the dream alive. Learning where something is not, is half the battle. 🙂

          • Eliminating possibilities 10 square inches at a time is not an efficient strategy.

        • Thanks Guys. Had a WONDERFUL Time.

          CharlieM, Email me at SculptorJDA at aol dot com and we will discuss details of Brandy.

          A bit disappointed, but still in the game.


          • JDA—-

            Sorry you didn’t find it. We were pulling for you. It’s great you keep trying though! Maybe next time!

          • JDA,
            I’m sorry Indulgence has alluded you once again, she is sly. I will be searching very soon, hopefully I’m right this time.

          • Welcome back JDA. I’ll admit I was mildly concerned you would find the TC due to some of the things you were stating about your location, but also had a gut feeling you wouldn’t find it since you were going on Memorial Day.

            How’s the weather in Wyoming not in Yellowstone?

            I’ll be headed out in August, after all the trails are open and rivers become fordable where they need to be forded. I’ll post my solve after my trip regardless of outcome. I likely won’t head out for a second attempt even if I’m close and end up giving it away.

        • JDA…I hope you will write up your solution and post it here on Dal’s blog. Many searchers follow your theories and chase methodology closely. Your adventure would be a great addition to the blog. Even though you didn’t find the TC this time I’m sure you have a few more searches planned for this season. Good luck and keep living the dream!

        • JDA,
          I don’t need a bottle of brandy,.. but two-fingers straight-up on your reasoning behind your theory of WWWH, would help was it down… should you ever divulge the thought.

        • Nice effort JDA. If I have crow I think maybe make hot wings from it. At least the sauce will cover the taste some.

        • JDA- I am sorry that you didn’t find the chest, but I hope that you had a good time. I hope that you got that rush when you have your feet in the spot that you have been studying and adrenaline of hopefully following ff’s path to Indulgence. At the very least you had an adventure that some may never experience. Because , by God, you are a treasure hunter sir, and that in itself is awesome. Not many get to say that!

        • JDA,
          Glad you are back safe and I’m sure you have great memories with friends and family.

          Clearly Clueless

        • Glad you made it back safe and sound JDA. Sorry to hear you didn’t find it though. Guess I still have a fighting chance to find it next week. How’d the weather treat you and your search team?

          Different subject. That special something it the chest. I’m starting to think it could be the title to his refurbished ‘35 Plymouth. After all, it was as very precious to him and Peggy, so it could be considered like gold in a way. Also, he did say something like “she’d be happy” in the context of the chest being found if memory serves. I tried finding it on tarryscant, but no luck.

          So I’m curious if you or anyone here at HoD have any thoughts on this “thought” that popped into my head the other day?

          Take care………Pinatubocharlie

        • JDA,
          Was snow an issue?
          Lots of Wyoming is still capped from what I’ve been reading.

          • No it was not in my area – some snow visible, but not a problem.

            Thanks to all

            I am still in the hunt – If I can just figure out where the game is HAHA JDA

          • Cool, that’s good to hear.
            Last thing one wants is to fight mother nature whilst scratchin out a discovery.

            Glad you are still in the game.
            Hang with it bud. 🙂

        • Glad to hear you had a safe trip, JDA, and that you are still positive about TTOTC. Time for further refinement of your processes.

        • Hi JDA, Glad you got back safe and enjoyed yourself and were able to eliminate another possibility. Also glad to hear you are not giving up. Best of luck. Dave

          • Thanks Dave – Maybe number 18 will be the one – Who knows when that might be. JDA

        • ken,
          It doesn’t matter how well and fast one can adjust if his/her initial assumption is wrong. IMO the successful searcher will be flexible enough to abandon, or completly revise his/her solution after a few unsuccessful BOTG. I’m sure you know I borrow the words above from the Man himself. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that when he spoke these words, he was referring to some bloggers on this and other sites.

          • Gosh…we have an oracle in our midst ! So far…the only genius I see is Fenn’s poem. I do agree that the *initial assumption* is definitely the crux of the issue and each searcher has to decide if theirs is correct and move on. Speed or time does not seem to be an issue.

  18. I can’t wait to hear JDA’s big adventure story when he returns.

    My gut feeling tells me that he will come home without the T.C, based on Forrest telling searchers to wait until summer.

    However I could be wrong, as long as he gets back home with his family safely that’s the main thing.

    Stay safe everyone, the chase is now well underway.

    Ronnie the Scot

    • Well Ronnie – not much to tell other than I now know one more spot that it “Isn’t”. My team and I criss-crossed the area where we thought it was – NADA!!! boo-hoo. We were all SOOOOO sure, but wrong again.

      Wonderful family gathering though. Bit of rain Sunday. but other than that – “A good time was had by all!” JD

      • OH, and a nice side note. Last year I bought a very nice Army pack at an Army surplus store. Pack got heavy, and I took it off and put it where I could retrieve it later. Well, we couldn’t find it. Well, this trip we found it. A “critter” had gnawed a light windbreaker I had tied on the outside, and they gnawed a pair of leather gloves that were inside. Dumped out a few mice “droppings”, but other than that, I now have a “new” backpack that I can use once we do find Indulgence – (Wishful Thinking – haha) JDA

      • JDA: just be mindful of hantavirus. Fortunately, Wyoming has far less reported cases of it than any other western state, but some of that is due to its lower population.

  19. The TC is not in Wyoming JMHO .when you know you go in with a grin and come out with a smile and Mr Fenn said this him self.JMHO

    • Clint,

      You may be right/wrong, however if Fenns “gut feeling” that it will be found this summer is right.

      Then we don’t have long too wait, who knows maybe JDA has already found it.

      Take care guy’s and stay safe.

      Ronnie the Scot

    • I agree it’s not in Wyoming. Lol it’s in NM. McB has the jump on us lol.

      • Travis,

        I did not understand the phrase:

        “McB has the jump on us lol.”

        Can you paraphrase, please?

      • Wy: I’ll go with neither. 😉 33 days left for someone to prove me wrong and collect a bonus Benjamin.

        • Travis: I can’t find what subject I posted it under, but prior to JDA’s trip, I offered $100 bonus to anyone who finds the treasure chest in a state other than Montana before the end of June.

          • Seems you must either be holding the chest in Montana or feel so very confident that it’s located there to slap a cool Hundo on the table.


          • Hi Kal: it’s certainly not the former! I should think that except in rare, state-straddling circumstances, “nailing down” WWWH ought to lock in the state. Offering up a C-note seemed like a stronger statement of certainty than the usual offers to eat crow, humble pie or hats.

          • Oh darn well then I guess I’m out of the running. Darn it how much if I find it by July1st.

          • Travis: to both accommodate you and commemorate our little upstart colony’s independence, I’ll extend the offer through the 4th of July. Does that help?

          • Ha even better. Now liisten we when have the Fenn Reunion I am going to hold you too it. And we will spend your Benny well I’ll spend your Benny on Grappette soda for all. Gosh I’m looking forward to this. I’ll even bring my famous huckleberry “kettle corn”

    • Think you got it backwards Clint – you go in with a smile, and come out with a grin. And, a buck says you are wrong about it not being in Wyoming – JMO – JDA

  20. As I have gone alone in there
    And with my treasures bold,
    I can keep my secret where,
    And hint of riches new and old.

    To paraphrase:

    “As I went alone in there and with my daring treasures, I can keep my place secret, and (=also?) suggestion of riches new and old (suggestion new and ancient?).”

    This indicates, IMO, that FF “keep” clues where it was? Maybe in the blaze?

    Or something suggestion new and “ancient” related to blaze?

  21. Can somebody remember and/or post FF‘s comment that no tools are needed at all to retrieve the chest at the hidey space? Can‘t find it at tarryscant… I also remember him saying the hidey space is tricky… can‘t find that one either…

    • TLO,

      I have heard other mention a comment regarding the “no tools needed” but I have never seen any place that this information came directly from Forrest. I would like to know as well.

      On the hidey space being tricky, this may be the comment you are thinking of.

      “The solve is difficult for many searchers because their minds think the clues are tougher to decrypt than they really are. Some say they are trying to think outside the box, as if the solution lies somewhere out there. Until now I have resisted telling them to get back in the box where their thoughts are comfortable and flow more easily. The blueprint is challenging so the treasure may be located by the one who can best adjust. To illustrate my point go to YouTube – Smarter Every Day.” f

      The above quote is from July 2016 MW http://mysteriouswritings.com/featured-question-and-weekly-words-from-forrest-fenn-get-back-in-the-box/

      • That question has been asked many times TLo. The fact is that Fenn has never mentioned whether a tool or tools would be helpful or not. Other than: “A metal detector will help if you’re in exactly the right spot.” Re: the “tricky” comment Fenn said: “I designed the hunt to be difficult, but certainly not impossible.”

    • TLo: I don’t have a ready quote from Forrest regarding no tools required. The closest I have is this one from “Everything Is Stories” EIS Radio (8/8/2013): “I still have about, uh, something like 4,000 arrowheads. And I tell people I’m saving those, because after the next war, I’ll make a fortune selling my arrowheads to different armies around the world. Einstein had said, “I don’t know what we’ll fight World War III with, but World War IV is going to be fought with sticks.” And the technology is changing so fast. I mean, if your computer is two years old, it’s archaic today. Technology is not going to help you find that treasure. But your mind and your body and your attitude changes as things change.”

      So not strictly a comment about tools, but it does seem to rule out the usefulness of metal detectors.

      • I will not keep this to myself:

        Much research, much read the poem, very to think, I noticed something in the poem:


        That’s why no one finds the chest!

        Poem is solved. Totaly.

        With photo of the place of the hiding place of the chest.

        I still need a partner. Does anyone offer it? New Mexico.

        IMO of course. : )

        • Blaze is not the final clue and the blaze is visible from GE. It is clue #8. You cannot see the TC from GE, but you will see the object from page 124 of TToTC on GE and the TC lies in close proximity IMO, oh and it’s in Wyoming.

      • McB: I’m afraid I can’t help you out since I will never search for Fenn’s treasure in New Mexico. But many people are sold on that state, so perhaps you can find one willing to consider your solution.

        • Zap,

          The important thing in my review is:

          “Blaze is not the last clue.”

          And indeed … GE, really, can not help, absolutely nothing.


          • McB: If you have been wise and found the Blaze. Is not the last clue. It is the 8th clue.

            GE is a great Refrence tool but I will have to say in my opinion that you will not be able to see the Blaze from GE. It will blend in with the ground vegetation.
            Using GE is great for distances measuring marking pinning and drawing out distances but not useful for locating or for seeing the Blaze. My last search I was sure I could see the Blaze from GE. Well no it’s not the same with both as eyes in the sky. I should have remebered this from years of past hunts.
            “KETTLE CORN”

          • Travis,

            Blaze is indeed an object, in a word.

            But, it is not exactly an object. In a way, it is not palpable.

            It is visible in GE, and “very” visible.

            It can be moved from place to place, but it is not viable / necessary / productive. And there’s no reason to get him out of the way, he’s fine where he is.

            If you find him, you will have a mission to fulfill. And it’s in the poem.

            It’s direct.

            Your quest leads directly to the location of the chest and at any time of year.

            Maybe in winter it will be even easier. The water may be frozen. (we’ll get less wet)


          • McB,

            I completely disagree regarding the usefulness of GE. It is extremely valuable tool when used properly.


          • Pinatubocharlie,

            I was talking about the last clue.

            I was talking about the last clue.

            GE can not help with it. Unless there were not so many trees.

            Everything can be located with the GE, minus the last clue.

            In my solution I found a photo of a researcher who did not know he was so close to the chest.

            But, it’s JMO.

          • McB,

            Forrest has said that the blaze is a “physical thing”, which IMO, means it is a palpable thing. As to whether or not it can be seen from GE, everyone has a different opinion.

            The recording of Forrest saying that, can be found here. I know it is in English……I typed it out below so you can translate it easier. Hope this helps. https://dalneitzel.com/video/audio/blaze.mp3

            Forrest: “The Blaze is a physical thing- it’s not theoretical. Boy did I give you a big clue. That’s not a clue, I mean it doesn’t take a scientist to figure out a blaze is something you can look at.

            Host: But what is it exactly?

            Forrest: What?

            Host: Blaze is a collection of something?

            Forrest: A horse has a blaze on his forehead here, or I mean there are rocks that have a white face that could be a blaze, I mean there’s a fire that’s blazing, I mean, I could give you a thousand different scenarios there. And all of them come to me by email- everyone finds a different one….

          • KK,

            Did you read my post right?

            I did not say it’s not physical.

            FF said:

            “I mean there’s a fire that’s blazing,”

            Is the fire palpable?

            I assure you that the blaze is more palpable than fire and less palpable than a rock.

            Well … JMO …

          • KK,

            Oh, it’s not the last clue. It is visible to GE.

            Let me give you one more tip:

            It is so simple that even a child would locate an blaze equal in the middle of the forest.

            It fits into the solution of “all” researchers here.

            IMO of course.

          • I read it correctly, you said “in a way, it’s not palpable”……

            I was responding to that context.

            I understand fire is not an object, and it is not palpable. It can be felt, but not touched.

            I am not sure what you are alluding to regarding your blaze.

            I agree, IMO, the blaze is not the last clue.

            I think I have my own pretty good solve going, with my own blaze. I have reason(s) from my BOTG, to believe I am in the correct area due to several things I have seen in the general area. At this point, I am just making sure I am following the precise directions in the last two stanzas, so when I go again later this week, I either find it, or exhaust all options in my area.

          • KK,

            Do not mess with your solution.

            I can be completely wrong, like most.

            It’s just my opinion, that it might or might not match your solution.

            I sent you an e-mail with my idea. Ok?


          • Hey McB, Happy to look in NM for you in September.
            I am curious though, who thinks the Blaze is the last clue. I think there is 2 after the Blaze.

    • TLo
      The supposed quote was; “…while fools argue about the quest, he won’t even need a tool, as he carries out the chest.”.
      I don’t know where, when, why, or how of this comment, but there should be enough for you can look it up yourself.
      A suggestion would be to check out JCM’s documents in the thread ‘Books By Searchers’

      However, if I recall correctly there’s the comment about gloves and another one about shovels… there might be others as well.

        • Stephan Returns To the Blaze 2012
          a poem was sent to Stephan from f and that was one of the lines

          • Ken, ~’older than *what* ?’

            I’m so old my social security number is 2. Number 1 was the guy handing them out.

          • I hope none of you seriously consider the ramblings of someone called “Pants-less Pirate” as a reliable source for a legitimate Fenn quote.

          • I wonder what ever happened to Stephen?
            Did he find the treasure and not tell us, because he is a Pirate?
            I bet he went and bought pants!

          • Yo Dawg,
            It’s Mister Pants-less Pirate to you, and I would forward the email to you from 5 years ago which “f” penned to me before this Chase blew up, but methinks its meaning might not penetrate that funny looking thing on your head. Please note my deft use of “It’s” versus “its.”

          • And therein find the most interesting and misquoted of Fenn remarks in my opinion:

            I use a small f because I’m too lazy to hit the shift button. All of this cyberspace verbiage is conspicuous by the absence of talk about where warm waters halt. Several months ago some folks correctly mentioned the first two clues to me in an email and then they went right past the other seven, not knowing that they had been so close. Alas, and dame fortune, so often a fickle and seductive wench, never spun her wheel to lure them back.

          • Mr P-less. You seemed unsure (“said somethin’ like”) and did not provide proof then, why would anyone expect you to provide proof now?

    • It’s the poem that’s tricky. The hidey space isn’t likely to be too complicated,
      physically. All IMO.

      • That’s the truth ^^ I’m living, lol. The last 2 stanzas are giving me fits. I think I have it, but confidence only equals precision if one has the chest in hand.

    • TLo,

      I’m pretty sure this isn’t what you’re looking for, but it’s the only thing I could find that’s even related to hand tools.

      “The chest weighs 42 pounds plus, best to have gloves”.


    • TLo-
      Here are three sources of quotes concerning tools from JCM’s “Chasing Words of Forrest Fenn”…
      I have found JCM’s resource to be an invaluable research tool when looking for Forrest’s words…

      Just so all you seekers know, me and the lads did not dig beneath that thar tree of ours. A mysterious fellow named “f” once sent us a curious poem, part of which said somethin’ like: “…while fools argue about the quest, he won’t even need a tool, as he carries out the chest.” (4/5/12)

      I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.

      Reporter: He (Forrest) did say you won’t have to… If you think you know where it is, you don’t have to dig around, you don’t need to disturb anything.

      • 1) (Very) unreliable source. (Unless you saw that E-mail?)
        2) Please explain how this references the use of tools?
        3) Hearsay, spoken by a reporter not Fenn.

        (Sorry Dal. I call them as I see them).

        • How about straight from the horses mouth;
          “If you can find the treasure, it won’t be a big job for you to get it.” [media thread; T&E]

          I would think, should I need to ‘dig/shovel’ and attempt to ‘lift’ a 10″ sq chest weighing 42lbs out of any hole… that will be a big job to get it.

          When you take one unverifiable source and think it’s factual, I can see your point, randwg.

          But when you have many that relate… ya have to ask… do I really need rent a backhoe?

          I’ll toss another comment out for consideration [on a slightly different subject];
          Q~ “Who else knows where the treasure is buried?”
          A~ “I never said it was buried. I’ve avoided that word. I hid it. I don’t mean to imply that it isn’t buried. I just didn’t want to give that as a clue. It took me two trips in my car to hide the treasure. And I can tell you an 80-year-old man is not going to make a trip into a canyon, then come up and go down again. As for who else knows, I’m the only one. My wife doesn’t know.”

          If fenn [ an 80 yr old ] is not making trips up and down a canyon, why would we-?- and just ignore it because it’s not recorded?

          As well as fenn finally [ on record ] saying he “…followed the clues when he hid the treasure…” [ just to add to the above as related]

          Having factual [recorded] statements are the best to have, only we know that sometimes fenn may have only stated it himself on record once… Such as WWWH is the first clue.. yet, more than one report [ not recorded ] has fenn saying just that.

          While I like to hear it straight from the horses mouth, so to speak, if you ignore the many related [not recorded]… reports… that hole you think you need to dig just got a lot bigger.

          LOL, How about the comment “don’t mess with my poem”… Do you believe this is factual, and/or do you have fenn on video or audio saying it?

          Who is reliable and/or unreliable?
          It seems to me, we only pick and choose the ones that work well with our own personal theories and skip anything that doesn’t. Rather than attempting to see how it could play out in the end.

          End of commentary… reliable or not.

          • Having factual [recorded] statements are the best to have, only we know that sometimes fenn may have only stated it himself on record once… Such as WWWH is the first clue.. yet, more than one report [ not recorded ] has fenn saying just that.

            Fenn: The first clue in the poem is “begin it where warm waters halt. that’s the first clue.” 4/3/2013 on New Zealand Radio. Transcribed on Tarryscant.com – link to audio there too.

          • Seeker, I would toss in the following comment from 6/16/2016 as also being relevant to the issue of retrieval difficulty: “You don’t have to move big rocks, or scale a precipice to get to the treasure. Stay away from dangerous terrain.”

            One pretty good argument against Forrest having somehow supplied precise coordinates to the chest’s location is the following quote:

            “Einstein had said, ‘I don’t know what we’ll fight World War III with, but World War IV is going to be fought with sticks.’ And the technology is changing so fast. I mean, if your computer is two years old, it’s archaic today. Technology is not going to help you find that treasure. But your mind and your body and your attitude changes as things change.”

            A GPS unit certainly qualifies as “technology”. I think most would agree that navigating to a precise latitude and longitude without a GPS qualifies as a specialized skill. The exception would be if those coordinates coincided with a distinct, long-lasting landmark. But in that case, why bother with coordinates at all — just describe the landmark cleverly enough that a searcher who has correctly navigated the preceding clues will recognize it.

    • If you consider such a tool (specific protective clothing), the only thing I recollect is FF commenting “…best to have gloves.”

  22. JDA,

    I’m sorry that you didn’t find the T.C, however I’m sure that you had a great outdoor adventure with your family.

    At least you and your family got home safely.

    I still think your in with a shout JDA, you sound like a real fighter and I’m sure you won’t give up.

    Stay safe on your next trip.

    Ronnie the Scot

  23. As I watch “ Vietnam in HD” with tears in my eyes,I would like to send my Deepest Sympathies on this day to all who have lost family and friends in Vietnam and all other wars. May they Rest In Peace.
    Thank you is never enough to soothe the pain that lingers in the hearts of those of you who have lived to see another day. I salute you all where ever you may be.

  24. There’s an article at BBC about “Should you trust your gut feelings?”. TL;DR version, don’t trust your gut if it’s telling you to eat a whole plate of donuts. From that I made a decision to trust my gut more than I trust BBC. But I still don’t know whether to trust Forrest’s gut feelings.

    • I have instinct or brief insights.

      Most of the time it works.

      Now when the two come together, I have no doubt in following.

      Sometimes we have to wait for our subconscious to work to have good ideas.

      This is called “emotional intelligence.”

      Quite different from analytical intelligence.

      Sometimes we feel that something is wrong, but we insist that everything is okay. When we realize / acknowledge the mistake, is already too late.

          • McB,
            I am also in NM when I get out there; always searched there. Planning to get out in a week and half with 5.3L 4WD and HD tires. Chain, chainsaw, gloves, food and water, blankets, heavy coat and light jacket, etc… Of course a metal detector, compass with movable top and hair, shovel and flashlight.
            I have made six trips near the search area but have MS and could not get to the SPOT.
            One question: is 1 in your search area? If yes, we can discuss terms. If not, then I will have to pass on partnering…

    • Gut feeling is what tells a fish it’s time to make the transition to sew water.

  25. Hi All,

    Over the weekend I did a LIVE video where I give my opinion on various things related to the chase. I thought I would try to give Mr. Gorman a run for his money (hi Bill), so I did it as a Fox. LOL. Anyway, I think it came out pretty cool and funny, if you check it out, look at the last 10 minutes when I play around with the avatars.


    Can you do me a favor? If you like the video, let me know what topics you want me to research for the next live show and I will try to answer them (and take live questions).



    • So am I supposed to buy and play a game, or just use Apple Pay to send money?

      • Send money for what? People in chat were asking about where to get FaceRig, and I told them on steam. The video was for me to answer questions about the chase or anything. I have no connection to FaceRig, just used it so I can feel like Bill Gorman 🙂

  26. There are die hard sports fans that will swear by their choosen teams regardless of present standings or the fact that their team has a track record of being habitual losers. Now it seems humorous to me that we have for some time now been lining up under different state teams. “I am on the New Mexico team”…”I am on the Wyoming team…go Wyoming”…” How bout those Coloradans ” …”Those other states can’t hold a candle to my Montana”.

    Once entrenched in our teams it is hard to keep an open mind and stay objective. I have switched teams numberous times. Colorado, then New Mexico, back to Colorado. Never on the Montana team. Back to New Mexico.

    I may have to switch teams again. After following instruction from The Grand Wizard to read and reread the poem, some words jumped off the page. HEAR ME ALL AND LISTEN GOOD. The words may be a rabbit hole. I pay attention to word groups and not complete sentences. Sign me up for the Wyoming team. SO WY IS IT that I must go. Welcome Home JDA.

    • Guy: you do know that WY could also be interpreted as an abbreviation for West Yellowstone (Montana), if you’re looking to expand your rabbit holes based on that one poem line. Given that Forrest lived how many three-month summers in West Yellowstone (?), it certainly seems a stronger case can be made for it than for Wyoming. (And for the record, no, I don’t think the chest is in West Yellowstone.)

      • Well Zap, ya may be correct…..but,

        His time spent in Yellowstone no doubt had a great impact on him. But, after his time in the Air force and a hard tour in Vietnam, he elected to move to New Mexico. Why?…..well he said, “When I retired from the Air Force I had a wife and two kids, and Santa Fe was the only place that I knew where I could recover.”

        Seems to me his ‘dear’, special, private place would have been a factor in his recovery???

        Good Luck to Ya………loco

    • you forgot, “the i must go”. Would read, Sowyst.
      Also need to explain why the “h” is left out…

    • The same can be said for NM, Guy…
      Old Mexico territory and New Mexico. “Hint of Riches New and Old.”
      Information that will be around for all, from now till the sun glows red.
      I mean, If i was to consider any of the these type of ideas as a location [ which I have… lol ] NM would be the most obvious and logical… it is the only place the book was meant and planned to be sold.

      fenn gave the books [ not the copy rights ] to a single mom and pop book store [ gave up the profits with the agreement a percentage goes to cancer research ] and not a chain store, right? [ that could sell a high volume world wide, just for that reason ]

      Then again, I like tired and weak for a single location to start and look for the clues.
      MT is known as the treasure state… why would fenn use “treasures” in the poem? His and the state??
      But wait… we still have CO… The RM high state [ lol for two reasons now ] and the only place that has a Never Summer peak… WWH?

      You use “why” for WY, and as others have questioned, why leave the H out of why? If ya going by ‘sounds like’ why not just the Y? for Yosemite, maybe. [ although that doesn’t fit the perimeters of the NOW know search are… but at one time it did, right? sort of?

      Geeezusss Seeker, pick a dang state already !!

      Forgetitaboutit… I lost my train of thought anyways. Oh! I remember… never rule out Kansas…

      • Seeker…it has been mentioned many times…especially early in the Chase, that one of the glaring reasons folks favored NM was the famous “in the mountains north of Santa Fe”…which he later changed to the now familiar “Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe”. This broadened the search area drastically once the Chase picked up steam due to news and media attention.
        No matter really either way…it all boils down to the correct solution to that one correct wwwh…which seems to plague the throngs of searchers. Of course, there are those that are fixated on their personal fave…maybe rightfully so…however, the odds do not favor that in the long run.

        • Yep ken,
          I left that out on purpose. Call this bias if ya like… but the original wording never rang NM to me.
          It actually made me think about the entire range itself was involved somehow. Although many would think mountains only in NM… my abstract brain went to the glacial period leaving canyon down as the Ice Free corridor… Add NPFTM to possibly be ‘home of the brave’ [USA}, and/or the backbone of the RM’s [CD]… with the semi colon splitting the “end” border… blah blah blah …well, you get the drift.
          It was a great solve, a perfect and brilliant solve, answered all the questions and clues…
          UNTIL, some guy decided to say there are many WWWH in the RM’s and nearly all are N.of SF.

          Don’t ya just hate those pesky ATF?!

          • you bet….There were folks searching all states back then…and I mean “all”. Things are gearing up for searchers now…and it will be interesting to watch where things go.
            Speaking of ATFs …it is still interesting to see folks continue to ignore them. Not sure why….

        • Hello ken. I’ve recently gone back to the two differences in the saying about the mountains north of Santa Fe vs. the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe. I believe he’s also mentioned about how he felt his Mom may have been the only one who would have bought his book. Yet, he is a good storyteller.

    • I like Wyoming…

      some quick fun math…not exact, certainly not scientific, and I did not account for elevation, just a very rough estimate of ‘mountains’ covering the maps and trying to be conservative:

      Population of Colorado: 5.607 million, land area (my estimate is ~ 40%): 104,085*.4=41,634 sq miles. Or 135 people per square mile!

      Population of New Mexico: 2.088 million, land area (my estimate is 20%) 121,697*.2=24,339 sq miles. Or 85 people per square mile!

      Population of Montana: 1.05 million, land area (my estimate is 30%) 147,040*.3=44,112 sq miles. Or 24 people per square mile

      Population of Wyoming: 579,315, land area (my estimate is 40% 97,914*.4=39,165 sq miles. 14 people per square mile.

      OK, so yes, I’m aware that is not actually where people live/are at any given moment, its just a thought exercise: if you didn’t want to be seen/noticed, where do statistics/probability suggest you go? I know my answers…I’m tired/weak.

  27. To McB
    Is Albuquerque Airport your
    Entrada in New Mexico?
    Specifically, Why do you want/ need a
    ( tranportation or botg?)

  28. JDA,

    Glad that you are home safe from you search. Sorry that you did not find the chest. I hope that you had a fun time in your adventure. Godspeed, my friend.

    Semper Fi,

    Windy City

  29. Back on the New Mexico team…rah, rah , rah…go roadrunners!

    PUT IN BELOW THE HOME OF BROWN…below Wyoming (buffalo are brown).
    and a buffaloe is on the Wyoming state flag. Colorado is below Wyoming.
    Now I am singing to the tune “They Got An Awful Lot Of Coffee In Brazil”….Oh, They Got An Awful Lot Of Buffalo In Wyoming.

    The Chama may be WWWH and starts in Colorado and ends in New Mexico. TAKE IT IN THE CANYON DOWN ( south into New Mexico).

    Boy howdy….I may need a long rest at The Shady Rest. I wonder how many prospectors have lost their minds in the Rockie Mountains.

    They say that it is O.K. to talk to yourself….just don’t talk back…too late!

    I am going to get me some slip on shoes because tying my shoes takes too much time that I could use on The Chase.

    I don’t even cook meals and it is a crying shame to be tapping my foot at the microwave to hurry up with my tv dinner so I can concentrate on thd poem.
    It sure is vexing to memorize the poem backwards.


    • Hello Guy Michael. Sounds like you got bit by the Chase bug pretty good. 🙂

  30. McB,

    Thank you for clarifying that for me. Then we are in complete agreement.


  31. Zap –

    This Fenn quote is from 2012, fall, and I bet he would say it’s as true today as it was then.

    I use a small f because I’m too lazy to hit the shift button. All of this cyberspace verbiage is conspicuous by the absence of talk about where warm waters halt. Several months ago some folks correctly mentioned the first two clues to me in an email and then they went right past the other seven, not knowing that they had been so close. Alas, and dame fortune, so often a fickle and seductive wench, never spun her wheel to lure them back.


    • Lugnutz: I know the quote well. It is the 5th, chronologically, in my voluminous database. Is there a specific reason you bring it up?

    • Lug…”chronologically”…it fits well with what was *mostly* being discussed at the time.

    • Also…in retrospect, this Fenn comment may be the earliest *nudge* that wwwh is the first clue. He outright mentions absence of talk of where warm waters halt…then follows with the infamous first two clues comment.

    • Hi ken: yes, Forrest was maybe addressing all the undue attention on aspens and blazes when the people doing so hadn’t solved WWWH. In other words, they were getting way ahead of themselves, preoccupied with later clues (an activity Forrest later called “expensive folly”).

      • For sure Zap ! One only has to look back to see that folks are pretty much prone to the same errors and ideas that have been *beaten* to pieces since the beginning. It still boils down to that *one correct wwwh*… even taking into account the folks who *figured, mentioned* it but failed just the same.

        • Ken Zap –

          I think Fenn would say the same today. We are focused on all matter of things and not paying enough attention to the only this he really has ever told us to pay attention to. Where warm waters halt.

          If one was to make a ratio based on comments and pages here alone, I think you would find we don’t talk about WWWH often.


          • That is true for the most part Lugnutz….and perhaps part of the reason is that some folks *think* they have that one all wrapped up, while others just plain have no idea….and/or both.

          • Hi Lugnutz, I agree…but I am a little baffled by one thing. By December 2014, someone had sent Forrest an e-mail (or somehow communicated to him) a solution that was correct for the first two clues. it seems like those early searches who sent solves to ff before 2015 would have gone through each of those solves and retraced and refined them all by now (almost 3.5 years later). I do not get how after 3.5 years this process of elimination by those pre-2015 searchers that sent him the correct first two clues would not have resulted in a correct solve by now? Boggles the mind….if I was one of those early searchers that sent him a solution pre-2015 I would have examined each of those to the nth degree long before now. I think someone has and maybe finally sent him the correct solve sometime before Feb 2018. I just hope we get to hear the final correct solution….and for the correct solver I truly hope it is still there to be found.

          • KC Dave: it goes back even farther than that. According to Goofy, Forrest said at the bookstore April 17th, 2013, that two parties had solved the first two clues.

          • The comment from Fenn that this thread is about is from fall 2012. “Several months ago…” is early 2012 or even late 2011 at a stretch.

          • Ken –

            That is correct. Within a year to 18 months someone had sent Forrest an email mention the correct solve or location for the first two clues.

            It may be that they are not people that continued to follow all this online. Those folks might have never known anyone had solved anything.

            And then, really, through the years he has mentioned the first two clues being solved but no others really. In 2017 or 16 there is the statement about he has never received all 9 in the correct order but who knows what that means.

            Seems to me that several people have been within a few hundred feet and several have solved the first two clues and that’s all he is admittin’ to.

            It all makes me think that none of us here at HoD have WWWH knocked out. I mean, he’s not playing coy right? He doesn’t say, Well someone has WWWH figured and it won’t be long now. No, he says focus on WWWH to this day.


          • Lugz ~’Seems to me that several people have been within a few hundred feet and several have solved the first two clues and that’s all he is admittin’ to.’

            Not exactly accurate… The first two clue solvers walked by “the seven remaining clue”. And the first two clues solvers “walked passed the treasure chest.”

            [ does it really matter at this point what year that occurred or who did it ] ?

            Not to change the subject but, these comments kinda kill the idea of miles between clues, none repeating clues, and It seems the clues are relatively close together… in the same location.

          • Yes Lug,

            “what” – “in what” Warm Waters Halt?

            it’s not water

            Only IMO no one else’s : )

          • Dave from KC, why would someone tell FF their solve?
            That’s about like showing your cards to your poker opponent(s). Where’s the benefit? All IMO.

        • Hi Tighterfocus, well, I could see people doing it for a variety of reasons (see below)…but that is not really the point…we know people did and we know ff stated that some of those that did had the first two clues solved and some were within 200 feet. So I am not really focused on the ‘why’ did they send them as I am about the ‘why’ those that did back in 2012 have not yet solved it when they know ff stated that someone sent him the correct first two clues in 2012 or 2013….all of those people that sent him solutions before he made those statements should have gone back to the solves they sent ff and spent a lot of time reviewing those solutions. Anyway, below are some reasons I think some might send them to ff:

          1) They want to confirm they were wrong…many probably think they were right and that the chest was already found by someone else. These people would e-mail Fenn to confirm they were wrong and that the chest is still out there.

          2) Some might just want to thank ff for their nice vacation and let them know they had a great time despite not finding the chest.

          3) Some might just want closure. They spent the time solving and searching and just want to write it up and put it to rest and move on.

          I can think of other reasons like people thinking they might get some response that will give them some sort of clue, etc.

  32. Dave, the problem is they do not know that they found the first two clues. Fenn didn’t confirm to them that they did. If they two-clue finders knew that they found them then the chase might be over by now.

    • Aaron…that does seem probable on the surface. Subsequently though, many folks have been at the first clue…searchers and otherwise. That said…I believe that there is a good *reason* why folks continue to *not know*…or know, and still fail. It’s a bugger….

      • Ken, IMO it is because they only understand the physical reference to WWH. Only the understanding the reference as it pertains to the remainder of the solution will allow them to proceed correctly. That is how I see it at least.

        • perhaps, generally speaking. It goes without saying that the *entire* solution is wholly dependent on the *correct* first clue.
          I think the correct solution to the riddle ties it all together and lands the searcher without mistake at the treasure. No coordinates needed.

          • “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” f

            I disagree, that we need to know WWWH first… that is the first “clue” we need to have. [ the path, imo ]

            So how do we find the only correct one out of the many? Location, location, location. And the need to know it is “the location”
            So why didn’t the first clues deciphers know they correctly got the clues? Maybe we need to know more about the location…

            Think of it this way… if wwh is simply a lake, that is easily found in any given state… so those searchers went to a lake that seemingly match up more clues in that area. yet the did decipher the correct first two clues, but never knew it and walked by the remaining clues and the chest.

            Is it because they didn’t understand the ‘location’? the ‘certainty’ of that location… Does knowing this have an impact on why the other clues were not located, or understood as clues, and merely passed by…

            IMO… it seems guessing, even correctly, on WWWH will not produce a correct solve… something is missing.
            My question would be; How does WWH relate to the location to get that clue ‘nailed down’.

          • Ken..I would have to disagree. With no coordinates needed. I believe that in TTOTC that their are 2 specific coordinates. Someplace hidden in there, And I also believe that there has “NOT” been searches within 200’ or 500’ that had any idea of being there. They may have been there just as all of us on a incomplete solve that failed.

            With that said I still feel IMO that Mr Fenn gave us the clues of 200’ and 500’ to narrow down the TC. But even at that there is still another dimension as Forrest has said IN THE TOTC Pg. 113 It is a matter of making all the lines cross in the exact spot. As he has said. This all goes back to one picture we have all seen at least once as searches.

          • Seeker: I agree that if the solution to WWWH was vague (such as a river, or lake, or state boundary, or anything similarly generic), then the searcher ends up reverting to dart-throwing mode. But IMO the solution isn’t vague at all: the poem singles out one place. By name. No guessing or pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey at all. I know you’re not a fan of the prospect of Forrest having utilized place names, but if that’s indeed how Forrest designed the poem, I should think a searcher could be pretty confident they had nailed down that first clue.

          • Seeker…because the folks did not solve the entire riddle…I believe it should be fairly obvious by now that the first two clues can be figured out…look at all of the ATF supporting that.
            Travis…every searcher has their own ideas…and none of them are wrong or bad…unless it is a rinse and repeat without results….or just spouting off before actually putting it to the test. Do not dismiss that Fenn has reiterated dozens of times that the *hints* in TTOTC are unintentional and ONLY help with the clues. A clue will take you *closer* to the treasure and the hints will only help figure out the clues….if you can recognize them.
            And Seeker….What if wwwh IS the location overall…the start point and more. I’ll go out on a limb…and speculate that the *certainty beforehand* means that the riddle has been *cracked*…as the *key* to the map/poem…and that once applied physically…first getting to wwwh…then consecutively following the remaining clues…using the *key*…right to the hide. I’m going to go further and say that it will probably end up being so ridiculously *in our face* that it might be embarrassing.

          • Ken,

            If, and only “if”, I am right in my solution, it will be “very” embarrassing for many veterans.

            Only “if”. Not sure.

            Which I think is quite possible given the number of people who have been around.

          • Ken: you said:::
            I’m going to go further and say that it will probably end up being so ridiculously *in our face* that it might be embarrassing.

            Without doubt in everyone’s faces it’s so simple…. when waters or any kind of water stop or “halt” what are they doing? They “standstill” Webster’s and when water or waters being plural stop halt what are they doing they are building up. So when they are building up what are they doing they are growing. When they grow they standstill until they can’t… do you get it…!

          • Travis…I do hear you loud and clear. That is not what I was referring to though. I was talking about the *correctly* solved poem…in it’s entirety.

          • To Ken’s point about the clues leading back to the first location, Forrest liked and referenced this T.S Elliot quote:

            “We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.” – T. S. Eliot quotes from BrainyQuote.com

            Just a thought……

          • I think the T.S. Elliot Poem is important blueinred and you can rest assured your solve is likely correct if you end up somewhere near where you begin it 😉

          • Eric D –

            What we call the beginning is often the end
            And to make and end is to make a beginning.
            The end is where we start from. And every phrase
            And sentence that is right

            (where every word is at home,
            Taking its place to support the others,
            The word neither diffident nor ostentatious,
            An easy commerce of the old and the new,
            The common word exact without vulgarity,
            The formal word precise but not pedantic,
            The complete consort dancing together)

            Every phrase and every sentence is an end and a beginning,
            Every poem an epitaph. And any action
            Is a step to the block, to the fire, down the sea’s throat
            Or to an illegible stone: and that is where we start.

      • Or, what if they have to go by the real first clue to get to what many people believe the real first clue is?

    • Hi Aaron, well, it looks like by 2012 or 2013 Forrest was saying that multiple people had communicated to him the correct solves for the first two clues. So all searchers who sent ff solves before he made that comment should have gone back and thoroughly reviewed any solves that they sent him (I am sure most did). It was a much smaller pool of searchers back then and that is a long time ago…my point being, those searchers should have been able to complete correct solves by now if they went back through everything they sent to Forrest before he made those comments. I can think of a few possible reasons for the length of time:
      1) Those searchers that got the first two clues correct were not full time searchers and gave up after their search and did not really follow this much afterwards.
      2) HoB is really, really difficult to solve, requires BOTG, and is even with BOTG is really difficult.
      3) If the 200 footers and first two clue solvers are one and the same…then maybe the picture they sent Forrest that confirmed the 200 feet was completely unrelated to the area of their solve. For example, they sent Forrest their solve along with pictures but then also included some additional pictures of their ‘nice vacation’ (not knowing the nice vacation pictures were so close to the treasure). If this is the case then maybe those solutions were so incorrect, that even when they retraced their steps they could not solve the puzzle. To me, this would point to a possible solve where WWWH and HoB cover large territories and do not narrow down the search area much (i.e. think continental divide with large territory followed by a HoB that focusses in a bit more but still covers a large territory). In this scenario, the searcher does not get close to the treasure until the clues after HoB. Just some thoughts. Dave

      • Dave, if there solve was flimsy because they didn’t have a full understanding of the solution I would guess that they just gave up on that location. Lets examine this scenario. Lets say a person thinks the far west end of Hegben lake is WWWH. They do not base on the poem solution. They follow the nearest canyon down. Now they do not understand Brown because they do not have a solution. The continue on looking for their idea of Brown. Could have been a building back then, a place with trout, you name it. They have already passed the treasure and the remaining clues because they did not solve the poem. Now this 2-clue solver decides this cannot be the spot because they checked it out the best they could with limited ideas about an actual solution. Time to quit or find another WWH.

        • Hi Aaron, but here’s the rub…you forgot to mention in your scenario above that they sent their solution to ff by e-mail (with pcitures maybe) and that they then subsequently heard his remarks about some searchers letting him know the correct first two clues and maybe been within 200 feet. Don’t you think they would go back and review each solve they sent to ff? I think most would…and if I had sent him multiple solves before he made those statements I would have crunched those solutions to the nth degree. Him getting those first two clues sent to him so early on and him letting the public know is what baffles me…why did those people who sent him solves before he made those statement go back and crunch each solve they sent him until they got it correct. If ff was making those comments all the way back to 2012, then it has been nearly 6 years! That is the baffling part…I am not baffled by people having flimsy solutions….I am only baffled by the people that had the first two clues solved…then sent them to ff…then they heard ff make comments about the first two clues and 200 feet…and how all of those people did not review all of the solves they sent to ff and get to a correct solve before now. Dave

          • Fenn gets plenty of emails of solves and probably plenty of pictures. Regardless of how much they liked their area, and solve they can review it till they are blue in the face, but unless they solve the poem they will get more than the first few clues. IMO

          • Perhaps the actual people in the mean time had quit the chase by the time Mr Fenn had made that statement … just sayin’.

            Safety First Always

      • One more to add to the list above…
        4) The searchers that sent the correct first two clues to ff had done so many solves/searches and sent ff so many e-mails that it has taken them 6 years to go back and crunch them all. This one would point to the winner being one of the more tenacious high volume searchers…and I wonder if ff would have even made the comments about the first two clues / 200 ft if it wasn’t someone from this group? FF would know those searchers would take a long time to go back through their large number of solves/e-mails…as opposed to a person who sent him just a a couple solutions. Hmm.

        • Maybe the searchers were thinking the area would be more like an oasis a really cool spot and so passed the spot as the first initial walk through didn’t appear “awesome” enough.
          Don’t forget that Forrest mentioned that someone he knows, would have almost died if they knew how close they were to the chest….that person probably spent a long time and many brain cells getting there but again didn’t think it was right for whatever reason.

          • Hi TSAL, could be…what a devastating mistake that would be. I would have crunched all solves I sent to ff before those comments about the first two being solved…because the last 7 clues might bring that searcher to a more ‘special place’ or at least a better understanding of why place was ‘special’ to ff. But, if the searcher sent him many solves, maybe they prioritized their retracing and the correct one was at the bottom of the list…thus the 6 years. Dave

        • TSAM: “Don’t forget that Forrest mentioned that someone he knows, would have almost died if they knew how close they were to the chest…”

          Don’t feel bad, but this is a common misconception. In that bookstore video, Forrest had been talking about searchers who had been within 200 feet of the treasure chest. He then went on to say “SHE” would tear up the countryside trying to figure out where they’d been. The error is in thinking that “she” and “they’d” refer to the same person. You had to be in the room or paying close attention to the video: Forrest wasn’t saying the person within 200′ was necessarily a woman; he was referring to a woman in the room with him that would “faint” if she knew, and would tear up the countryside trying to figure out where *they* had been.

          • Hi ken: I wasn’t there, of course, so I don’t know who was present. But he was clearly gesturing with his eyes toward someone there in the bookstore who he must have known very well by sight. Was Stephanie or Cynthia there?

          • McB…that was Stephanie at the Collected Works earlier. The one Zap is referring to was at the Moby Dickens

          • Zap Can McB

            Which woman was there and in which state was she searching?

            Cynthia, Staphine, other, somone must know…

          • Hi Lugnutz: I agree that certainly someone must know — there were a lot of people in that book shop. Maybe I should look at the video again to see if I recognize anyone.

            But even if we can identify which woman Forrest was talking about in the room, I’m not sure that that knowledge would be terribly helpful. What matters is the identity of those early two-clue solvers. Just for convenient reference, here’s my transcript of that part of the talk in the Moby Dickens Book Shop (November 2, 2013):

            “There are several people that have deciphered the first two clues. I don’t think they knew it because they walked right on past the treasure chest. Uh, and I’m not going to tell those people who they are, because one of them particularly would faint, I know, and she’d tear the countryside up trying to figure out where they’d been.”

            So it is actually one of the two-clue solvers that would faint, while the “she” is someone there in the room who would “tear up the countryside” trying to figure out where those two-clue solvers had been.

          • Is this?

            “And I’m not gonna tell those people who they are because one of them particularly would faint, I know. And she’d tear the countryside up trying to figure out where they’d been.”

          • Zap –

            This may not matter at all of course. I do have a suspicion though. I suspect that the woman he was eyeing is a New Mexico searcher. And a tenacious one at that.

            If we know who this mystery woman was it probably won’t matter to you. I keep an open mind about which state we are in.

          • I am fairly sure Cynthia was not at the CW when Stephanie asked …”Who was closer, me or Dal?”
            Of course Stephanie probably doesn’t even remember all the places she searched(so many).
            There are those that are sure that Fenn was speaking about them…but I don’t think it even matters really. Plenty of time has elapsed…and those folks I’m sure have exhausted themselves trying to figure it out for themselves and it is pretty obvious it hasn’t amounted to anything. Reverse engineering things is probably not going to pan out.
            I believe time is better spent figuring out wwwh…and nailing it down…before another season passes….

      • Dave,
        You stated ” it looks like by 2012 or 2013 Forrest was saying that multiple people had communicated to him the correct solves for the first two clues” (your words, not FF’s). It got me to thinking about what that might point to. I wasn’t searching back then, but it sounds like the majority of searchers were in NM at that time. So it stands to reason that if multiple searchers had figured out the first two clues, then odds would point to those clues being in the state where most searchers were concentrating on. Not a sure thing, but enough to tilt the field to the south?

        To address your thoughts about how someone could have the first two clues and not find it, Forrest did say that “Nobody is going to accidentally stumble on that treasure chest”. To me this says that you’re unlikely to find the chest before you figure out all 9 clues (or almost all and a good guess for the one you’re missing).

        I agree with your thought that HOB must be really difficult, but instead of it being a BOTG issue I think that those searchers didn’t figure out what HOB meant since FF hasn’t mentioned anyone solving past the first two clues with certainty. As always, JMO.

        • Hi JW, that did cross my mind about NM being where most early searchers were looking. Could be. As for the next 7 clues after the first two…that is the part I do not understand…it seems like by now someone should have been able to solve those next 7 after all these years. I am not sure what the missing link is for those searchers, but it does seem as though HoB must be really difficult and might not be the types of thing people are looking at…it just baffles me…but someone might have finally put the pieces together….and if it was in NM, I think that person would already have gone and gotten it by now in 2018 (assuming the ‘gut feeling’ alludes to the correct solve) because there is no snow problems in NM…unless the problem has been children in school and vacation planning with family work schedules, etc. as opposed to snow. Dave

          • Dave- I really don’t think that the people who have “deciphered” the first two clues understood them correctly. Just because they knew the correct place does not mean they understood why it was the correct place. If they had, and they knew what “it” was, they would be holding the TC IMO

          • Dear Mr. KC…

            The answer to your question might also be….they are very very busy,….or maybe they are giving some others a chance at solving it. Come to think of it…they might be in jail! (Maybe I should interrogate some of my prisoners….)

            I talked to my leprechaun friends to see if they would give me any new clues, where to look next. They confirmed to me that Fenn told the truth when he said he hasn’t been back to the spot where he hid it. BUT..they told me he has been back within 500 to 1000′, many times.

            Of course I told them I didn’t believe them. I told them to prove it. I told them, Fenn would never admit to that….. After conversing and arguing a bit between themselves, they told me Google Earth caught a picture of him and his car near there in the first part of October 2013.

            I told them that doesn’t help me, if they won’t tell me where to look. Then they said to ask Clint from Dallas. Who is he, I asked? They wouldn’t say other than he has a little boy and drives a pickup. (Could he be the redneck from Texas Mr. Fenn alluded to..I wonder)

            Oh well. I guess I’ll keep that in the back of my mind. In the mean time, I think I’ll waterboard some of my prisoners… Where’s my deputy?

            Best regards;

            Sherif Billy

          • Hi Sheriff, I think I need a book and some ATFs to solve your message. I do not even know where to begin. What’s the first clue? I feel like it is in the second stanza. Googling leprechaun now for obscure meanings.. Lol, Dave

  33. Seeker: “My question would be; How does WWH relate to the location to get that clue ‘nailed down’.”

    That is where I believe imagination helps

      • All I can really say is that the process that got me to where I am is
        1)solve the riddle in the first stanza
        2)find the physical WWH that also matches the riddle.
        3)from there most of the remainder of the clues show themselves. 4)Recon mission this weekend
        5)If blaze not find then work out the remaining clue details by trip in July

        • Good luck, Aaron and have a fun trip. You have a good head on your shoulders like many others here.

        • Good luck Aaron.

          But you should know the Blaze before you go. It’s in the Sun (sort of). My opinion only.

          Have safe travels.

          • I have an idea how they could but not sure if that was an intended fit. I am most certainly not relying on them.

          • Thanks for the replie, Aaron.

            I hope you have a safe & adventurous trip! Happy hunting!

        • I wish you luck but honestly think you should reconsider another state McB.

          IMO it’s not and no we’re near New Mexico.

          • Travis,

            I wish it was the solution that leads to chest. Only time will tell.

            My solution is simple and very obvious to anyone who studies it.

            It’s simple, the person reading it comes to think, “How did I not see it?”

            But … it’s not conventional. Nothing conventional.

          • McB when you haven’t found it let’s meet in West Yellowstone and I will give you my solution.

          • Travis: if McB can’t make it to New Mexico (thus partner recruitment), I don’t see him heading to Montana where the chest resides. 😉

          • Travis,

            This is not a good time to leave Brazil.

            And getting visa is very difficult, even more tourist.

          • McB: the treasure chest “was” in NM. Just not in the last 7+ years, IMO. 😉 Eventually you’ll abandon NM, just like Cynthia and the other veterans who initially favored that state.

  34. Has anyone thought that there may be a picture/photo of the chest location in the TTOTC book?

    • I believe it’s pictured on page 124 of TToTC IMO and the book also contains several hints. Too Far to Walk didn’t really contain much for hints that I was able to pick up on, but Once Upon a While practically names a couple geographic features in the area and are cleverly disguised. Several of his Q&A answers are naming off geographic features in the area too. It’s almost like he’s getting tired of waiting for someone to find the TC and is trying to push them along to the answer.

    • I don’t think he would do that McB. I don’t think he has even mentioned the spot. With that said, page 57 possible. Skippy holding a rock. :). That pic has definitely been messed with. Can you see the 46 degrees? It’s within Skippy and his pants.

      • I think he has gone to great lengths not to mention the area to avoid giving it away, but has been there several times as a fishing guide. The absence of discussion leaves a giant bullseye to be explored. He readily talks about Firehole, Madison, Gallatin, etc. It’s not there. He does mention landmarks in the area in cryptic responses and hints in the book though.

        • I don’t think he’s been there when he was a fishing guide. Nobody knows where the chest is but f. With the thought of him being there when a guide means he was guiding somebody. So they would also know where the chest is, generally, and nobody has a clear cut head start on anybody else. According to f. Yea, I don’t think he has mentioned the spot at all, except for in the poem.
          As far as the stories in the book, I do agree there is a basis for his stories and a reason he picked these stories to put in the book. I also think the points that he has repeatedly brought up, or even changed, have merit as far as a solve is concerned. I’m sure there are references to landmarks as well, would figure there is something to see as far as history is concerned and the landscape.

          • I don’t think he’s been to the TC location as a fishing guide, perhaps with his father or brother. I do think he’s omitting areas of the park that he would have been to as a fishing guide. If you were to make a heat map of the areas of water in and around Yellowstone that he’s mentioned there’s a giant hole he’s avoiding mentioning.

          • Eric, you bring up a good point. You may be right.
            Interesting if we had a map of all the places in the Rockies he’s been to and compare to all the places he talks about. There would be some voids. Those would be possible locations of interest.
            But alas, we have no idea of that info. Maybe a crude type of map could be put together, and maybe, the voids in that map could produce a hint at where the chest is. Of course, the poem solve would have to confirm, along with the ATF’s.
            But I’m with you, I don’t think f has mentioned the final spot. If he did, the outcome would be just like the outcome of the spots he has mentioned. People would flock to the spots and the chest would have been found by now. Since it hasn’t, pretty logical to think that f has not mentioned the spot that holds the chest.
            Then again, Yellowstone is a big place, but we’re not saying that. We are talking specifics…

          • Eric d and charlie, IMO you are on the right path. It may be what the words could also relate to but not specifically. It’s the whispers. g

    • And are they really going to leave the shooting range on the way to willow?

    • Hi Aaron sorry for being a stick in the MUD but if you doin’t know where the BLAZE is before bog have A nice vacation.good luck

      • Cint,
        I don’t believe I said I didn’t know where the blaze is. In this solution I have found something that could be the blaze but I cannot tell without BOTG. If not then it should be in the general vicinity.

        I would like to find the treasure of course, but I like nice vacations too. I’m always up for a fun adventurous hike 🙂

        So tell me Clint do you think that you would need to know precisely where the blaze is before heading out? If so, within how many feet?

        • Aaron if you’ve been wise and found the Blaze you’ve already pass it and if YOU’VE already passed it you cannot miss it. So if you are guessing before bog have a nice vacation and good luck. JMHO

          • Sorry Clint..

            .IMO.. You also don’t know where the blaze is. IMO Unless I’m mistaken, the blaze you speak of faces due West. Forrest said it doesn’t face any direction.


          • Mr. Fenn,
            Which direction does the Blaze face? North, South, East or West? Curious. Foxy
            I didn’t take a radial off of the blaze Foxy. I’m thinking it may not be any of those directions. f

            “Those directions”, not so much, ‘any direction’… The same as; in the mountains N.of SF. But might not be true/due north. although that would make things a bit easier.

          • There are actually quite a few ways to think about Fenn’s comment to Foxy about the blaze. One obvious reason could just be an accuracy statement using wordplay. Maybe it faces NNE or other more exact direction. Perhaps it is just a flat marker of some sort on the ground…maybe a natural post or pillar shaped stone…could be very large or not so much. Either way…I am in the camp that believes that the blaze cannot be seen or known beforehand.

          • Good point about the pillar Ken. If the blaze is something like a unique looking rock and not necessary a mark on an object then it could be facing all directions at once. Who is to say what the front of it is in order to say which way it is facing?

  35. If this is not the correct place for this, I apologize, I’m new to this.
    I’ve been trolling for a bit now, while trying to figure out my solve. So, hi all.
    I have a question. In the beginning, f said that all you need is the poem. Is it possible that the clues that he is giving out are distractions? I read that somewhere else and wanted you guys opinions.
    Of course, I’m asking because I believe I have found it, it’s just over 10,200….

    • Well, I think he’s not a liar! Misleadings, yes… but lies, no… I definitely would not believe it is in a place with over 10.200 of elevation! I’d rather dismiss that idea or take it as a plan B in case you have another solve not far away…

    • Oh, and there used to be another Quote where ff said (paraphrasing): “you cannot find it with the poem alone!”

      I do not know if he just said so because you’ll have to put BOTG or because you’d need one or more hints from the book to explain the clues in the poem…

      • If he said it, I would think he meant the poem and a map are needed – JMO – JDA

        • Yes, a map and the poem. Ok, I guess that kills that idea.

          Next, are there any grizzlies in NM?

          • That’s what I was thinking. I saw an interview where f said that you’d have to watch out for grizzly bears. I’m paraphrasing there, but to my thinking, that would rule out NM for sure.

          • Fosmott: you’re probably referring to the ABC Nightline story from January 12th this year when Forrest said, “I mean, the grizzly bears alone are something to think about.” But the context of that statement was safety. It was the final sentence in his answer to Pete Kassetas’ plea to end the Chase due to the fatalities. “I’m not gonna give a clue to help people find the treasure. I’m gonna give a clue to try to keep them out of trouble. I didn’t anticipate that people would, would die searching for my treasure but in the back of my mind it had to be logical that that could happen.”

  36. Solved the first two clues and walked by the other seven is the only ATF that
    I Can not rectify in my solve. I am hoping he is talking about clues other than wwwh and canyon down. He could be saying the first two clues that make it easier to solve the poem and not wwwh and canyon down.

    • TimW- Are you sure you know “canyon down” Because I don’t think it means what everyone else thinks it means.

    • I don’t think forrest has ever said “…solved the first two clues and walked past the other seven”

      he has said:

      “There are several people that have deciphered the first two clues. I don’t think they knew it, because they walked right on past the treasure chest.”– (Moby Dickens Book Shop Signing / November 2, 2013)

      and he’s also said “Several months ago some folks correctly mentioned the first two clues to me in an email and then they went right past the other seven, not knowing that they had been so close. Alas, and dame fortune, so often a fickle and seductive wench, never spun her wheel to lure them back.”

      But, I don’t think he has ever said any searcher has solved 2 clues and walked past the other 7.

  37. Hi JDA….I am glad you had a safe outing with your family. Fenn has succeeded again in his initial goal with the Chase. I was curious if you have put much thought into your ongoing solve and *where* you think things fell apart? Are you still hooked on your specific search area ? Or do you feel it may be time to start anew ? Any new ideas ?

    • Thanks – Yes, all safe and sound.
      YUP – YUP Forrest succeeded in getting 10 of us out in the wonderful Wyoming Rockies.

      YES, I have given it a LOT of thought, and YES, my team and I now know where we went wrong, and have a new plan.

      Forrest said to SIMPLIFY – we are doing that. Our new search area is in the same GENERAL area – but a bit different. Can’t say more, other than to say it is before other areas we have searched.
      Thanks for askin’ JDA

      • Seeker called it, though it wasn’t all that “out there” in terms of predictions.

        • Well, I was working with a malfunctioning magic eight-ball. The secret is to drop kick it a couple times… then a couple more try and then more, and …

          • William;

            Your statement implies that it is better to search an area once, and then move on, when in-fact much can be learned each trip to the same area.

            What will be your opinion when, after 10,15, or even 20 searches of the same area, I find Indulgence?

            Remember what Forrest had to say about multiple searches: Petersen asked, “In your mind, who would be the best person or family to find this treasure?
            “A family that is joined together and gone out lookin’ for the treasure four or five or ten or 50 times,” he replied. “Take a tent and sleeping bags and your fishing pole and go out looking. That was my primary motive.”f

            You have your method, I have mine. Good luck to you William – JDA

          • JDA, Congrats on the nice trip with your team of 10.. I think that’s awesome.

            I agree with your statement “when in-fact much can be learned each trip to the same area.” however be careful when you state “when YOU find Indulgence” … just joking… but you might get some backlash from some people.

            I on the other hand believe in being “Confident” which some others see differently.

  38. JDA,

    It’s nice to see you and your family back home safely.

    You may have come back empty handed, however I’m sure that you and your family will have a lot of happy memories of your trip.

    Who knows maybe next time JDA you might just come home with the T.C

    I’m curious to know how many BOTG trips you have now done?

    Take care and stay safe

    Ronnie the Scot

      • JD. (I have not seen the other JD for awhile on here, so I address you as the original)Didn’t mean to imply one spot, one search. I give you big props. At least you have an idea as to where you think the chest may be. I can’t get by” As I have gone alone in there'” Where damnit????? I did not mean to disparage you or your searches. I would love to be able to go out into the mountains 17 times or so. Unfortunately the state of Maryland is a tad to far too walk to the Rockies!!! A tad to far too drive also. Although I made a trip from Jackson Hole, Wy to Annapolis, MD in 36 1/2 hours once!! Never again. Keep at it JD, I know you will. Be safe.


      • JD. I give you big, big props for your 17th search. I wish I could make 17 trips into the Rockies. It is a little far and too far to walk or drive from Maryland. I commend you on your persistence. Heck at least you have a plan. I cannot get past the line “As I have gone alone in there” In where for the love of God??? Keep it up, JD. I know you will.


        • Thanks William;

          I did not know what the meaning of “As I have gone alone in there” for quite a few months. I accepted that “In there” was some place that I had to go “Into”, but figured out the rest of the poem in order to find out what that “in there” meant.

          Forrest has said that the first clue is, “Begin it wwwh…” This seems like a good place to begin.

          I have said that “in the woods” has an obscure meaning that will lead one to a geographical area in Wyoming. If
          you can not find this obscure definition – My suggestion is to start with a map of Wyoming and figure out as many potential WW spots as you can, and start there. Just my way of looking at the poem – you may decide that this is not a good approach – up to you – Just a suggestion – JDA

  39. McB on May 25, 2018 at 6:41 am said:


    Where you live? State.

    McB (and others),

    I moved to Minnesota in 1979 to play American football in college, and have called it home ever since.

  40. ken commented on Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt….

    in response to ken:

    Zap…no fishing at all. We could not be further apart in how we see the poem…for the most part. For me it is just a comparison exercise…only for thought purposes. I’ll remind you that Fenn has iterated several(look it up…ha ha) times, one of which is “…whether it’s buried or not you can find it … Continue reading “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…”

    OS2…”I doubt that anyone will find the blaze before they have figured out the first clue.” Every comment in this context has reiterated the fact that the first clue is a must before *finding* the blaze. I take that as…beforehand or botg…doesn’t matter to me.I believe folks can research all they want and the blaze is going to be incorrect every time unless the first clue is spot on.

    Ken, and others,

    My current working theory is along the lines of having to solve “the whole poem”. If searcher is successful in that part of the puzzle, then their BOTG effort will be a grinning affair – at least that’s what I suspect. In my opinion, that’s why Mr. Fenn speaks of confidence in recovering Indulgence. I have come to believe that the searching is done in the mind and the working out of the puzzle. Picking up Indulgence will be “easier” than solving the poem. It also helps explain why he has been so adamant concerning having to find the first clue before a searcher can find the blaze.

    Your mileage may vary,

    • Seems like sound reasoning and logic to me Swwot – Good luck to Ya’ – JDA

    • swwot…I believe the correct solution to the riddle(the nine clues) is what will get that *smile* packed and ready to look for the grin. I also believe there is still a margin for error even with the riddle solved…after all Fenn was *looking down the road* maybe a 1000 years. And yes…I agree that the mind(imagination) is where the game is played.

    • So swwot, are you in the camp of solving the poem will yield the spot, then mapping out your path gives you a starting point and then the first clue?
      Then, following your path, finding the clues on the way? Until you reach the spot/treasure?
      If so, I think that makes it 3-5 of us.
      There is only two actual ways to see it. Either you need to solve clue one to get clue two to get clue three, etc…. or, you solve the whole poem to get the final spot.
      I’m only in the solve poem for spot camp because of the couple of ATF’s that say that some of the clues cannot be solved correctly. Since that would be wwwh and the blaze, to be in the other camp goes against what f is stating. If you can’t solve clue one, then how would you solve clue two thinking? And thus the blaze, which also cannot be known correctly. Seems to me, the only option, is to solve the poem, which yields the spot the chest is at.
      That’s not to say that all the clues cannot be solved, he would have to let us solve some clues, but just the few things he has mentioned as not having the info to solve. I see no other way except that the searcher will know the final spot before he/she knows the first clue.
      So: final spot, clue one, clue two, clue three, etc….. with some hints to support: drawing nigh, water high, marvel gaze, etc…

    • LOVED that one. Yes, the poem can some times make one feel that way. Thanks for sharing – JDA

          • geez Seeker ! Aaron…just pick her some pretty weeds and tell her she is the best thing since sliced bread…and marmalade…maybe. I gave my wife a weekend pass to a fancy spa for Mother’s Day…she said thanks…what are trying to tell me? Small trinkets and smiles work best….

          • Ken, I did the pretty weeds and I do sense they help make my weekend chases a bit easier.

          • I lured her into my solution… it took me 6 months and now she is my biggest supporter! Maybe not getting tired to tell about the what ifs (gold, diamonds, holidays…) was the main part that convinced her to help me and let me go to put BOTG from time to time… 🙂

            PS: she = my wife not Aaron’s hahaha

  41. Yes, it sounds like only knowing where “they” were would be useful not she. Maybe she is tearing up the countryside as week speak, in an attempt to figure out where they have been.

  42. Hale, hale, the gangs all here! The flashing neon sign on the door I entered said: ODDS & ENDS. It sure is odd that after the pages of many calanders have fallen over several years that Indulgence is still an elusive flutter by.

    It is my personal opinion that enough is enough and it is time to find the Omega. I have instructed my personal cabinet to assist in getting results.

    My Secretary of Leisure has contacted The New Mexico Dept. Of Game & Fish and requested a 2018 – 2019 hard copy of rules and regulations info complete with a “good map” of New Mexico Special Trout Waters on page sixteen to assist in finding WWWH.

    Secretary of The Pantry has been been given my personal declassified recipes for sandwiches that need no refrigeration and that can be thrown together at a moments notice and will be tasty at any altitude.

    Both the Director of BOTG and the Director of Lodging will be on notice to find places where Tom Bodete has left the lights on in the target area.

    I have ordered the U.S.S. Inflatable Four Man Rubber Raft complete with life preservers to be on standby. First aid and snake bite kits, fly rods, tackle, ice coolers, birdwatching gear, and bio-degradable toilet paper will be deployed.
    The need for a paddle shall be taken upon advisement.

    By coming together and by being willing to share in this momentos event we can overcome and return victorious carrying Indulgence for all the free world to see in a ticker-tape parade down Madison Ave.

    • Cute – Cute – Thanks for posting. I noted that you do not have a Department of search and retrieval. I think that this is an oversight that you might want to rectify 🙂 JDA

    • I am going to say whether you meant to or not, you are the first searcher I have known to mention Madison Avenue in relation to the Fenn cache.

  43. JDA…The head of the Dept. Of Search & Retrieval has been fired. You are hereby nominated. Hopefully the confirmation process will only take a few more years. Welcome back from the trenches. You deserve a medal….or maybe lots of metal.

    • Sorry Guy, due to my current age (75 – almost 76) I do not feel that I will be around long enough to complete the confirmation process. Please consider someone younger, and prettier – May I nominate Cynthia. Sorry to have to decline – JDA

        • Thanks Copper – Every wrinkle has been earned. Dr’s told me 13 years ago that I should have died, I was just too stubborn to lie down. Proud to be almost 76 – I have earned it!! – JDA

          • I hope I am still doing fun things like this when I am your age JDA. What’s the secret? I have tried to stop watching the news…that seems to make me feel better. Searching for treasure is far healthier than that. Dave

          • “The Thrill of the Chase” for the past 30 months – Before that, beating on rocks – some call it sculpting, I call it fun – beating the hell out of something – Takes out all of the aggressions from watching the news – 🙂 – JDA

          • “The Thrill of the Chase” for the past 30 months.-
            Before that – Beating on rocks – Some call it sculpting – I called it fun. I took out my aggressions on rocks after watching the news – BLAH! 🙂 – JDA

          • Very cool…yea, I recall now reading previously about your sculpting. If that is what you did for your career, I am very jealous!

          • Which career?
            Child/student 19 years
            Marine Corps 20 years
            IBM 17 years
            Sculptor 17 years
            Treasure Hunter 2+ years

            Wonder what next? 🙂 JDA

          • A most interesting man (before they sent him to Mars), but not a very good beer. Better than a lot of Mexican beers though.

  44. JBL…wrong Madison. Sometimes we need to do what birds do in the winter….fly south!

    • I was just making an unfunny joke. I had to look on a map to see if West Yellowstone even had a Madison Ave., but it actually does. 🙂

  45. I am going to say whether you meant to or not, you are the first searcher I have known to mention Madison Avenue in relation to the Fenn cache.

    • There is way more to this than some may realize…This has played into my solve for the last few months, and this is, indeed, the first time I have seen anyone else mention it. I don’t want to reveal too much, except to say that Madison is not the only relevant street there… 🙂

    • Throwing my hat into the ring: Madison, IMO, will have nothing to do with the solution to Forrest’s poem.

        • I’ll bet you on that it doesn’t unless the lady within 200′ was named Madison

          1F Billy

      • TB: I’m game. What are the stakes? I hope you aren’t suggesting the Madison River is the sole reason that the word Madison is relevant.

    • Lug… do you refer to the Fenn Cache or the Fenn cache? I like that trail but there is no forrest there. However, GE lies and I plan to check in person before summer end. You?

      • Sandy

        There are a lot of places I would like to visit this summer and not all related to the chase.

        Taos Sante Fe Three Forks Lake MacDonald Little Popo Agie Raton Flaming Gorge

  46. JDA…As long as she has not colluded with foreign operatives….she can have the position as she has demonstrated time and time again her longsuffering and willingness to be thrilled by the chase!

    • Guy I am sure she will be happy to consider taking this position, although I can not speak for her.

      Guy, are you aware that id you click on the “reply” button, your post will fall below the one that you are intending to comment about – as this one falls below your last post. This makes following a lot easier – Just a suggestion – JDA

  47. Has anyone considered the Business Insider article as a major hint of the area where the TC is?

      • The BI article is full of clues. Read the FF statements……break them down in separate parts. IMO this is a major article as the parts seem to give a general location description. If a solve doesn’t match with the clues, then, once again IMO, it won’t be correct.
        I don’t believe the FF statements were thrown out there as filler for the article but intentional for searchers. He wants the TC to be found…that is why he hid it in the first place.

      • And it is ludicrous to think that New Mexico is searched out. As some are fond of saying. those mountains have seen barely a foot fall 50 feet from the handful of rivers mentioned on this blog.

        And of course, searchers have been within hundreds of feet!

      • It may just be a matter of time before they start closing the state parks as well and then I will be up a creek without a paddle. Does anyone know if there is any precedence for closing the New Mexico State parks if there is only a threat of fire and no actual fire?

        • Hyde Memorial is closed beginning June 4. I suppose that counts as ‘precedence’, though it’s clearly due to the SFNF closure.

      • Thanks for sharing the map Zaphod. Even though this is not my search area I am going to cancel my plans for searching later this month. My area could close at a moments notice.

        • The TC won’t be found by someone meek or timid. If FF has a “gut feeling” the TC will be found soon, I think it’s quite highly
          likely to happen. All IMO.

    • Translation: No Fennboree in Hyde State Park in the near foreseeable future.

      • That may make it a bit easier for folks to get to the “Function at the
        Junction” in Montana.

    • Wow, glad I’m not looking in New Mexico! If I was I would be looking in the Chama area! My daughter has called me Chama for years before we even knew there was a Chama in New Mexico. Now my Grandson calls me Chama Yamma… Maybe I’ll teach him to ad a ha at the end and I will be Chama Yammaha 🙂

    • Doesn’t that sound a bit surreal — “I’m sorry, but the forest is closed”. It’s not like it’s an amusement park with a designated parking lot. It’s hundreds of thousands of acres. It just sounds strange.

      I sure can understand the decision though. Anyone who has seen the devastation caused by the 2011 Las Conchas fire around Bandelier, or the 2013 Jaroso and Tres Lagunas fires in the Pecos, can appreciate the caution. Hundreds of thousands of acres of heavily wooded areas with thick stands of tall trees and abundant wildlife centuries in the making were obliterated. What had been delightful wondrous areas of animation, thick soft under brush, and filtered sun shine through pine and aspen canopies now reduced to open barren spaces. The landscape has been changed for the next few generations of our species in these areas due to fire (man and lightening caused).

      So many posters say ‘be safe’. Surely, you should, but also — be mindful of the wilderness.

  48. I don’t disagree with a lot of things here on HoD but when I do it is when someone recommends Dos Equis.

    • Two thumbs up from another CA beer snob! 🙂 I will say this: Mexican beers are every bit as good as Italian and Japanese beers.

    • Omega is the 24th letter in the Greek alphabet and X is the 24th letter in English. So does ΩΩ actually mean XX(?)

      • It’s value is also 800. Maybe it means 8008. That could be three 8’s, or 24. Could be an elevation, but that’s a stretch. Or, 2442, (XX), which would be 66, which could be FF. Or anybody over the age of 12, meaning year, F was 66 in the Summer of ’97, Which may be “marvel gaze”. But what do I know? Nothing…

  49. I am botg tomorrow…..hope I have it “nailed” down. I am confident in my general area, however I am struggling a tad bit with the directionals in the last two stanzas…..send me some luck if you have extra 😉

      • Aaron yes I am going soon,have all clues nailed down and going in with a grin and I will be smiling coming out.AJMO

          • Aaron and Sharif Billy I did’nt say the blaze was facing any particular direction, I am taking the FENN on this one. Big hint Memorize poem read ttotc and tftw and THINK I will not give you the keys to the car son you’ll have to THINK and do it yourself as I have done.

      • I’m not that superstitious. We make our own luck, mostly. I will offer
        some advice: Please be careful while hiking. The ground may be
        wet and slippery. And don’t hike alone. All IMO.

    • If it wasn’t for bad luck, I’d have no luck at all. So,
      Break a leg….

    • Please let us know which crow recipe you use and how it turns out. The crow that is, not the search! I almost miss cooking the fowl beast. Maybe I’ll have the chance soon! Suffering from cremnophobia may keep you safe. Use logic and plan ahead. Hope you find it by accident (the chest, not a cliff or steep precipice).

    • Maybe I’m not in “good standing” here on your blog? Maybe you simply missed it?

      • Thank you JDA!
        *Side note: my dad is a Marine and Vietnam vet and my son is serving in our Navy on a submarine , so much respect to you, sir!

        • Thank you so much Veronica. May your son stay safe. I salute your day for his service – and your son as well – JDA

        • Veronica S, when was your son up in Groton Ct.?

          I was lucky enough to be up there in December, many moons ago. I never knew that cold was that cold.

          • Charlie,
            He was! He was in Groton until deployment last year and now he is stationed in Pearl Harbor (poor thing!) and you are right about those Groton winters, last years was a doozy! My poor Texas boy didn’t know what to do.

  50. FF’s response to Foxy fits perfectly with what I think the blaze is. Foxy did not ask if it faced up or down. I believe it is a rock layer sandwiched between other layers that have been pushed up in the formation of the RM. Remember the mention of a “sandwich?

    Turns out that jar of Olives mentioned in TTOTC could be referring to Olivine. Look it up and see that WWWH can quite possibly be a layer of rock from a Craton pushed upward in the formation of the RM. A craton has lost most of its water content and is not permiable or less permiable than other rock layers (WWWH).

    Do you remember the story of FF’s mother making dessert out of toast “brown” from the oven and covered in jam? FF liked to pretend his was pineapple upside down cake and in his imagination “it was”. So if a rock formation upturned with a craton on top and younger rocks underneath could be a pineapple upside down cake).

    A couple more things I learned in studying the geography of the RM. Did you know that the RM are actually the second set of mountains that have stood in that place. There were the ancestral RM which wore away and the RM that exist today are the younger mountains (treasures old & new). Maybe those stories of FF’s ancestors (grandparents) were telling us something. And then there are the comments about FF’s age and how he isnt as agile as a younger person. That is true of rocks as well. The very oldest rocks contain little water and are less agile.

    Something else caught my eye as Ive studied the RM. Remember the story Looking for Lewis & Clark? FF & Donnie were lost until they finally loosened their grip on the reins and the horses took them home. Anybody ever heard of the “horse latitudes”? Look it up! Turns out the winds are stronger there and rain is infrequent. (Let go of the grip on the reins/rains and let the horses show you the way)

  51. Y’all, Just for the record, I’m aware I stated to seeker when he asked the confident searchers the question ” where and when? ” I stated Wy. by the end of this month. That’s not going to happen due to my search partner being under the weather for the last several day’s. I will now say my hope is for 6-2 or 3. I Sincerely wish all searchers, especially on Dal’s site, may the best person WIN. Afana

      • JDA, I commend you for your ongoing dedication and determination in Mr. Fenn’s hopes. It’s people like you that will eventually find Mr. Fenn’s rainbow and the TC. My best to you.

        • Thanks Afana. Some call it tenacity – Some call it stubbornness – Some call it stupidity – I prefer the first – but it could be either of the other two 🙂 – JDA

      • Thank you JDA and Aaron, Lets get er done! Mr. Fenn ain’t getting any younger, and I do believe He would like (IT) FOUND soon.

  52. This page is now closed to new comments. To continue the discussion please go to the newest Odds n Ends page.

Comments are closed.