Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Fifty Six


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645 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Fifty Six

  1. Flutterby on June 11, 2018 at 3:40 pm said:

    I think that the knowledge we obtain by deciphering the poem is going to help us find the place where the TC is located. I do not think it is a a step by step guide or even a map in the traditional sense. I think we need to understand the rock layers that tell the history of the RMs and only then can we figure out where locate the TC.”

    At this point I am not discounting anything. Thanx for sharing.

      • He did say that all you need is the poem and a good map and a comprehensive knowledge of geography would help. The person that knows the solution could go with confidence right to the TC. The solution doesn’t require a comprehensive knowledge of geology, Greek Mythology, or anything else exotic.

        • Eric D., Your statement makes no sense. You admit that all we need is the poem, a good map, and a comprehensive knowledge of geography “might” (FF said might, not would” help. Then you go on to say that it doesn’t require a comprehensive knowledge of geology.

          Do you know what a comprehensive knowledge of geography would include? It includeds GEOLOGY (study or rocks)

          The https://www.worldatlas.com/geography.html website says, “Physical geography is defined as the branch of geography that encompasses the study of the natural features and phenomena (or processes) on the Earth.

          Physical geography may be further subdivided into various branches: Geomorphology, Glaciology, Oceanography, Hydrology, Pedology, Biogeography, Paleogeography, Climatology, Meteorology, Environmental geography, Coastal geography, Quaternary science, Geomatics, Landscape ecology.

          Pedology: A branch of soil science, pedology involves the study of the different soil types in their natural environment on the surface of the Earth. This field of study helps gather information and knowledge on the process of soil formation (pedogenesis), soil constitution, soil texture, classification, etc.

          Paleogeography: This branch of physical geography examines the geographical features at various time points in the Earth’s geological history. It helps the geographers to attain knowledge about the continental positions and plate tectonics determined by studying paleomagnetism and fossil records.

          Quaternary science: This is a highly specialized field of physical geography that deals with the study of the Quaternary period on Earth (the Earth’s geographical history encompassing the last 2.6 million years). It allows the geographers to learn about the environmental changes undergone in the planet’s recent past. This knowledge is then used as a tool to predict future changes in the Earth’s environment.

          So, yes! A comprehensive knowledge of Geography would inlcude GEOLOGY.

          I think the quote you are referring to is as follows,
          “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.” (Dal’s Blog/ Scrapbook)

          This is IMO except for the quote which is FF’s opinion apparently.

          • I don’t know how Toponymy can help you at all Chris (I had to look that word up). But if you knew the geographic location of each clue it would be a map to the treasure. f

          • Mr. Fenn, Is there any level of knowledge of US history that is required to properly interpret the clues in your poem. ~Steve R

            No Steve R, The only requirement is that you figure out what the clues mean. But a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help.f

          • IMO all you need to know is geographical features, plains, mountain, river, canyon, etc and know about the geography in the search area. No in depth geology knowledge required.

          • Eric: correct. Geography is a totally different beast from geology. Soon we’ll have the volcanologists, crystallographers, and seismologists all piping up claiming Forrest’s remark about geography clearly indicates their field is critical to solving the poem. Hogwash. SPECIALIZED KNOWLEDGE!!

  2. Flutterby;

    This is continued over from the last Odds ‘n Ends:

    Thanks for your L O N G response. Enlightening to say the least. You certainly have your imagination going full throttle.

    I too believe that Forrest is very much interested in the past, and the distant past of the place that Indulgence is secreted.

    Our planets history goes back 4.5 Billion years. Not many places (Other than the grand canyon) can display this long long history. I think that I may have found such a place, and I think that it is here that Forrest secreted Indulgence. As in all things, I guess that time will tell.

    Thanks again for your post – Very enlightening – JDA

    • JDA- When are you heading out? I’d honestly be happy to see you find the TC. You have been at this for quite a long while.

      • Flutterby;

        I honestly can not answer your question. My search team has commitments and families. – I hope to make a search before July, since I have an ear operation in July, and no travel for 6 weeks after surgery – I am ready, but owe it to my team to wait until THEY can make it – Thanks for the well-wish. Good luck to you as well – JDA

        • I just started looking in March or I would have. I know my solution is unique and it’s simple and I’ve found hint after hint that corroborates my solve after I solved it using just the poem and the map.

          • OK, technically I wrote software to filter through all named geographic features in the 4 potential search states that matched a percentage of words, definitions, or synonyms from the poem at the proper altitude and then narrowed it down to 4 potential places and then used just the poem and the map to complete the solution.

      • Well, I guess the waypoints in the poem could be simple, but the hidey space is high end! That could be another reason why the simple solutions seem to be burned…
        All IMO… 🙂

    • IMO, if you’re out investigating every hot spring, boiling river, or thermal feature you see on a map then you’re wasting your time. Determine exactly what warm waters are and then figure out what causes them to halt and find it on the map. IMO there’s only one place that fits the bill in the Rockies. If you can’t do that then go out and play some canasta.

      • Right! Wwwh has nothing to do with waters: his poem is a whole metaphor but translating it into a map is a whole different story! Baby steps…its gonna

        • Each clue correlates to a geographic feature on a map and you can follow them in order, they’re consecutive and contiguous.

          • Keep in mind ff’s continual reminder that he planned for the TC to potentially remain in place, unfound, for hundreds or thousands of years. Names change in that time, so do the courses of rivers and some geological structures, certainly roads/road names/trail names, and as he’s said, the names of people who have passed are often forgotten.

        • PhilBou, if you believe what you posted, good luck in your
          solving and searching. Please be kind to your lungs.

      • Eric D,
        Software is only as good as the information programed into it. If you don’t know what WWH is, or what HOB is, then no amount of calculations will help. Good luck!

        • I know exactly what WWWH is and hoB. I’m fairly confident from reading Q&As and the books after my solve that I have the correct location and have at least a dozen corroborating hints and clues and it’s highly unlikely they’re coincidental.

          • The exuberance will diminish after the second return trip to where the treasure is suppose to be.

          • I’m only making 1 trip out. If I don’t find it, it’s not there and I had a nice vacation and will share everything I know and move on.

          • Eric, some on this blog may try to discourage you.
            I don’t know whether it’s because they fear the competition. You may be right, and it may not take a year to figure out what WWWH means. But I still recommend that you share your solve — or at least part of it — with several trusted friends or relatives, to see if it makes sense to them. If any of them doubt or question it, this may justify re-evaluation before you go on an expensive search trip. More specifically, it wouldn’t make sense to go on a BOTG search hike expecting to find the TC until those friends/relatives ALL agree that you have a correct solve for the ENTIRE poem, which according to some folks, does have a “twist” in it near the end of the clues. All my opinion.

          • Tighterfocus, I have shared my solve with some in my search party. They had trouble finding the no paddle clue, but after I linked to what it was from a source online(it’s not a boat oar) they thought that’s it and it’s not coincidental . They were able to find the rest of the clues relatively easy and are confident in my solve.

          • Tighterfocus, I also agree that there’s a twist in it which I had to explain to my search party, but if you’ve read TToTC you’ll see it right away when you come to it. I was hung up at the blaze and off on a tangent until I read TToTC for a span of about a week. It took me three weeks to solve it in its entirety and since then I have just been looking for additional hints to corroborate, which there are plenty of. Have read all 3 books, perused flywater, and read Journal of a Trapper plus the many SBs, interviews, and q&as with Jenny Kyle. I’m about 95% certain in my solve and it’s unique. We shall see what it yields if anything.

        • Eric D: I’m sorry, but no, you don’t know exactly what WWWH is. You are too new. You will almost certainly not figure it out in less than a year. This is not a slam against your intelligence or computer skills. Forrest quote for you: “Technology is not going to help you find that treasure chest”. Many computer experts have preceeded you, myself included. Computer algorithms aren’t yet smart enough to deal in metaphors, so their success or failure derives entirely from the smarts of whoever programmed them.

          • We’ll have to see. I head out in August and I’ll post my solve regardless of the outcome. Don’t overcook his poem.

          • Eric good luck with search & i predict that if yielding find the TC you will take another trip lol

          • Whete the word yielding came from i dont know. Should read “if you dont find TC ” auto correct great most days with the way i spell but then again. Lol

          • FWIW Zap,

            In my opinion, Eric may be on to something. To date, his modus operandi is very similar to mine, albeit at a much faster pace. It is also my intention to only go foraging for Indulgence once. If my solution is correct, and I have the confidence in it, then one trip is all I’m going to need. I would also be inclined to “give it up” after one shot, but I think it is improper at this point for me to say things of that nature – mainly, because I do not know what the future holds.

  3. At the “Once Upon A While” book launch Preston said:
    “Forrest doesn’t want me to say this, he asked me not to say this but I’m gonna say it anyway (sorry) um… you know there are clues in this book… There are vital clues in this book.”
    Not just a clue but “clues”. Now other than some small changes, Preston’s foreword, the “Two Sense” comments, and the new pics and Fenn drawings, these stories have already been told. (The “Bullet” story was in tftw and SB 126 before OUAW). So were these “vital” clues there all along, or were they added when the book revisions were made? I have not found any new clues in OUAW so far. Not even any non-vital ones..

    • TToTC contains several hints. I know I’ve found at least 4 or 5 that corroborate my solve. TFTW didn’t help me much at all. Once Upon A While contains the most blatant clues if you know the solution IMO and they’re obvious. I can marry one to a hint from TToTC.

      • That’s called confirmation bias Eric. That will not help you. Keeping it simple is fine but remember ff said to someone “you are over simplifying the clues. There are no shortcuts “. But I agree that WWWH has nothing to do with warm water…

        • I believe that WWWH is related to warm water, plain and simple.
          This is not rocket science. Eric, please be suspicious of what you
          see on these blogs. When competition for something valuable is
          involved, people are likely to do a lot of tricky things to throw you
          off the correct route to it. Good luck. All my opinion.

      • Did you find OUAW useful in narrowing your 9th clue search area? How big is your search area? TTOTC seems useful in narrowing the endpoint, but there seem to be several possibilities. 200’/500′ might be useful or simply misleading.

        • Once upon a while is very useful IMO, though I had already figured it out before then. I believe the TC is 200-500′ from a trail, but my search area with all clues on the map spans about 10 miles.

          • Ten miles is a lot, even if following a line like a trail. I am interpreting the 200/500 as possibly two trails. The more traveled one results in within 500′, and the lesser one within 200′, but I realize I could be fooling myself.

          • I have one like that too. Reality on the ground is a quite different than theory at home. You might want to leave yourself the option of searching for several days.

          • Eric,

            I have already had my first confirmed solution wrong, and I can say:

            The solutions vary greatly.

            In my second complete solution, I have “everything”, all clues, within +/- 12 square feet.

            I did “exactly” as FF said. I married all the clues with “a single point” on the map.

            But the GE does not give me enough clarity to see the chest.

            I only see a yellow blur.

            I still think I might be wrong.

            Trust mistrustly. Always question yourself. This opens the view in your search location.

            Your solution may be correct, but the chest may be where you least expect it.

            Oh, and look in top of all too. No only below.

            And a lot of good luck!

            IMHO, for a searcher friend.

          • McB,

            I have seen some unusually colored pixels on google earth. Problem is, when I look around enough I find others of same color. The current patina of a bronze chest may simply be more dark brown, but there could be a glint off it.

          • CRM;

            Forrest has said that google Earth does not go down far enough to see Indulgence. Why not take him at his word? JDA

          • JDA,

            I believe ff, and nothing I said is inconsistent with that. There a difference between a positive ID and a hint of riches. I am checking unusual pixels out in the field out of curiosity if nothing else.

            I check out other stuff too and have found some hidden treasures of no monetary value.

          • CRM, JDA,

            I mentioned the blur of the area, not the chest.

            “It seems” that a few years ago, the GE was much sharper.

            In some places it was possible to identify the hands of the driver at the wheel of a car. That’s about 2007.

            But due to complaints from many countries, mainly USA and USSR, and for security reasons, this sharpness was greatly diminished.

            This makes it impossible to accurately identify anything 10×10 inches or less.

    • Randawg,
      I also didn’t find anything useful in OUAW. But I only found two hints in TTOTC So I have a fairly high bar to call anything, aside from the poem, useful. I haven’t read TFTW so I don’t have an opinion there.

      • There should be a period after TTOTC. Also I remember listening to Doug Preston’s comments at the book signing and thinking to myself that this guy should be a circus huckster. I wasn’t buying it then, and nothing in the book changed my mind.

      • OUAW is full of hints, I think. As with hints in any book there is only one way to be sure though.

  4. How many books of “Fiction” has Forrest written? How many Fiction books have been written by Preston?

    I rest my case.

    Just one thing though about the question I asked Forrest that night at Collect Works November 2, 2017 and Preston and ff’s grandson Shilo both carefully changed the venue, redirected the question, therfore no answer, the Q was “Forrest is the Blaze a living thing or on a living thing?” Forrest never answered.


    • Tom Terrific,
      Is the blaze a living thing or not a living thing? Well, that depends upon how you look at it IMO.

        • Lady V.,
          Thanks for clarifying that question. ” is the blaze a living thing or ON a living thing?” I see why FF didn’t answer it. My answer would still be that it depends upon how you look at it.

    • Questions are hardly informative. But consider your case rested if you want.

      OH! I should say something about the hunt. It wasn’t designed primarily to
      entertain only geologists. I think endocrinologists may also get some enjoyment out of it as *well*, while it benefits more than one phlebotomist. And although I am not Italian, I believe that “warm waters” do play a part in the constitution of a bigamist, which will halt.

      The above is part of my opinion, which may possibly not be considered terrific by anyone.

      • One question Forrest answered was in fact very informative and helped validate my solve. Though the question itself was not informative the answer definitely was. So informative that I will keep it too myself until my BOTG this July or August because it eliminated many other possibilities. Many overlooked its importance.

      • I’m sitting here drinking my morning cawffee, scrolling through the chatter on the blog, and came across your post tigherfocus, and Rich’s response as well.
        My first reaction was; HUH? so I read them again. I said to myself; OK, Focus is trying to say something and I’m not getting it, and Rich is saying something without saying anything at all.
        So, I read them again. I said to myself once more; HUH?!
        So I scrolled up to the beginning of the conversation and other’s posting to try and get a handle on it all. Unfortunately all that created was more of the same… HUH?
        So I re-read it all one more time…

        Then it hit me like a ton of bricks… duh!… I’m out of cawffee.

    • TT – Forrest didn’t answer because he didn’t hear your question. I thought his grandson handled your inappropriate question quite professionally and humorously by telling his grandpa you asked something else. Inappropriate because you broke the ground rules that were clearly stated before the event that questions were to be directed about the new book and not the treasure. IMHO 🙂

    • I don’t think Preston lied TT. It’s been said before, but the interaction between Preston and Fenn looked scripted. “You talkin’ about this book?”
      How else would Preston know there were clues in the book unless Fenn told him so?

  5. Great comment by flutterby on previous odds and ends! And i would like to add one thing about crying under the lean to; also pointing out how the clues are hidden in plain sight… Crying in the lean to is a watershed! It’s WWWH in my opinion. Flutterby read right past it! The hints and clues are masked in the words! Just like his tv interview the green jade mask laying on the counter!

    • Eric D.,
      Do you know what FF meant when he said, “Don’t overcook his poem” I’m pretty sure I do, because when his mother made dessert and took the toast from the oven, it was only supposed to be brown and not burnt. IMO

    • John Edo,
      What makes you think I “read right past it”? I believe I understand that story completely. I do not believe that the lean-to is a watershed. In fact, I believe I know what it is.

      But, either way; I believe WWH in two places that both apply to the poem. #1 A cloud #2 water travels less easily through some types of rocks than others (lame)

      HOB- In my opinion, HOB is a Forrest Fenn. I have a good idea where the Forest Fen is, but I do not think the TC is there. I think the TC is “put in below the HOB”.

      Therefore, one must understand the geography which is dependant on the geology of the area. You can’t find WWWH unless you understand a comprehensive study of geography IMO. And, I have only seen one other person on the blogs who came even close to knowing what HOB is IMO. Its so simple and yet so complex.


      • Flutterby- i agree with you about knowing what a forrest fen is, also to have search partner wait in the carr. River bathing is the best photo also shows lean-to with water hand pump; it had to be drawn from the earth; and name of said pump is important too. Also the canvas bag on the front of the car on trip to yellowstone did the same thing; shed water. It really was a great comment!

      • Flutterby,

        We [you and I] have different results for our ideas… but I agree [in part] that knowing wwh [what it refers to] might be more important than finding it. Being there may help answer that, yet, even that thought didn’t seem to help folks at the time they arrived, and indicated to fenn where they were.

        For me, this should give folks pause to how searchers who live and breathe the chase don’t fully understand what a clue or possibly all the clues truly mean. Especially when folks are SO certain they have it all correct, only to return because they never found the ‘next’ clue[s]…some walking right by them and never knowing a clue when it in the ‘correct location.’

        For me that is a teaching lesson. fenn is adamant we need to nail down the first clue. The problem I see… they never understood it to start with… they simply started with it.

        We may not agree to our different outlook, overall, of our own process… But I like your thought process … to begin with.

        • Thank you Seeker,
          Do you have any idea why we need to “nail down” the first clue? I think I do.

          • I don’t even know what or where yet.
            I have ideas like everyone else… only when I run the check and balance process through my head… I find major flaws.
            It could be, I just don’t understand how to nail the first clues down, idea, that my general solves don’t work out to a reasonable conclusion… or I’m simply not in the same place the poem’s clues are at.

            There is another possibility. In Cynthia’s post a while back it was mentioned fenn saying ‘manufacturing WWH’ [you would need to read it]

            Not unlike your theory, WWH may connect to ‘all’ waters. The idea would be that knowing this type of theory of how they connect would give the ‘poem’s’ reference meaning to see how the other clues fit with it… And not so much the idea it should be a hot spring or merging rivers or a lake or waters under a bridge…

            Of course that is, IF the first clue is an actual stand alone clues. What I mean is, does the canyon down line or even the entire first sentence of stanza 2 all need to “fit” as one and not separated as individual clue’s places.
            Which in this case, might be why many ‘solved’ the first two clues and didn’t know… because clues three or even four are needed or involved with clue one in such a way that WWH can not be understood without them… other than it’s location.

            Yet again, there is also the possibility the entire poem is essentially WWWH, only we are not reading the clues as a whole but forcing them apart.

            LOL but I don’t expect too much chatter about any of those ideas… most folks have their hopeful WWH nailed down in their minds. Even the ones who repeatedly fail to find the chest using the same WWH.

            Personally, if I felt my idea of what WWH should be as absolutely correct, and that puppy kept puking all over the place, I’d probably concentrate more on why it failed me than trying to figure out where I made a wrong turn or how much gas I need to get to the next clue or what color the bear was… If that many sense.

            But to truly answer your question, Flutterby. Yep, I may have more ideas then most of the searcher have, because I have examined pretty much ever possibly idea I have heard that others attempting.
            So far, fenn has beat me at every turn… But at least I can admit it.

          • Oz, Yep her on Da’ls site
            I believe it was one of Cynthia’s write ups about the chase. Or you’ll probably find it on her personal blog as well.

          • Seeker, Flutterby,

            Anyone willing to give a chica a little bit of ayuda here on this “nail down” situation? Por favor?

          • La Cubana;

            These may not help but here is what Forrest has said regarding nails:

            Forrest mentions iron nails in a couple of posts.

            “Who has been the closest to the chest; man or woman? (that you know of)
            “As far as I know the closest person to the treasure was a man, but there may have been a woman with him. The most common mistake that I see searchers make is that they underestimate the importance of the first clue. If you don’t have that one NAIL:ED down you might as well stay home and play Canasta”.f

            He also mentions nails in “Graveyard Logic” – “She had made the ugliest pottery thing I have ever seen. It was about 18″ high, 10″ across, and it reeked with dismal black figures that had sharp edges. The IRON NAILS that she had driven periodically around that poor jar had been mostly destroyed and were crumbling as a result of the high-temperature firing. Angel had written her ex’s name in big black letters, but I am sure it was misspelled. “Ferd,” it said. I wondered what that was all about.
            He again mentions iron in SB 175 – The IRONRooster of Santa Fe County
            One sentence reads: “The iron rooster was covered with a black garbage bag when Jim put it on my table, and stepped back behind the counter. I looked at Joe Anna and she looked at me, neither of us smiling. After a long few seconds, she nodded toward the plastic bag, insinuating that I should pull it off.”

            Is Forrest telling us that the Iron Ore deposit is below a layer of black rubble stones? HUMMM??

            Could this be what he means by “Nailing down” the first clue? Just food for thought – JDA

        • You folks sure have me scratchin my good hair out. Great thought starters but not much hair left. It’d be best to find that treasure SOON! Gonna do my part in a couple weeks and see if my WWH and HOB floats or flushes.

          Ya’ll be safe!

  6. Zaphod and Eric D,

    Are you both basically saying that every single website and book on the subject of geography and what it means to study geography is wrong? Maybe a class on geography might help you to know that geography includes the following: GEOLOGY (study or rocks), Physical geography may be further subdivided into various branches: Geomorphology, Glaciology, Oceanography, Hydrology, Pedology, Biogeography, Paleogeography, Climatology, Meteorology, Environmental geography, Coastal geography, Quaternary science, Geomatics, Landscape ecology.

    The https://www.worldatlas.com/geography.html website says, “Physical geography is defined as the branch of geography that encompasses the study of the natural features and phenomena (or processes) on the Earth. “FEATURES AND PROCESSES” of the Earth.

    Wikepedia agrees with worldatlas, as does National Geographic and every other source I can find. Its hard to imagine that NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC SOCIETY might be wrong about what geography includes. But, who knows. Maybe you are both smarter than the National Geographic Society. Afterall, such intelligent words as “hogwash” really explain your thinking process.

    Forrest Fenn himself said, A COMPREHENSIVE STUDY OF GEOGRAPHY MIGHT HELP. (FF) Comprehensive means deep and detailed. That includes GEOGRAPHY. But, if you don’t think so, I know I won’t bump into you while I’m looking at rocks.


    Happy Searching!

      • Eric D.,
        Your one source comparing geography with geology can’t undo all the thousands of other sources that say the study of rock formations and the layers within them are part of geography. I’m not saying that the answer lies in taking apart a rock. I’m saying the answer lies in looking at the way the rocks are arranged into formations which is the study of geography. But, whatever. I know you won’t get in my way.


        • I doubt I’ll be in your way. Go retrieve the chest if the answer is in geology, but do it before August and save me the hike. I personally think you’re overthinking it. I’ll be WWWH in August. The words are in plain English and mean exactly what they say they do. There are no tricks and there is no subterfuge in the poem, though some of the other things he has stated in interviews are subterfuge from a man trained in it while in SERE school.

          • Your exuberance and confidence in your solve echos everyone’s first BOTG search. My advice to you (and any new searcher) is to have a plan B ready. And it doesn’t hurt to have a C, D, and E on deck either. Good luck to you in August.

          • Forest said ” There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts”. Eric? Does this fit your findings?

          • Yes it does Richard. I have corroborated it with many things he has said, stories in the book, stories he refers to in the book

          • Good! I like your confidence. I do look forward to hearing about your search.

          • Yes, mh wwwh is a physical location/area that is found on a map and ot is my starting point for the solve.

    • No, Flutterby. What I’m saying is that when Forrest brought up geography, he meant it in the simplest of layman’s terms. Think grade school geography. You learn state names and capitals, Canadian provinces, countries and their capitals and major cities, continents, oceans, major mountain ranges, rivers, lakes, islands, deserts and so on. When Forrest says a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help, in my opinion he’s referring to a level of spatial detail finer than what you would learn in your high school geography class. Specifically, having detailed geographic knowledge of northern New Mexico, western Colorado, Wyoming and Montana would give you a leg up on the competition. Knowing about plate tectonics, geomorphology, geology, hydrology, sedimentology, oceanography and a hundred other related fields isn’t going to help you one wit, IMO. But if that’s where you want to focus your energies, by all means help yourself.

      • Zap –

        That seems to be a soggy plate explanation.
        I guess he knows how you feel.


        • i went to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_geography
          and found some interesting items. i was most interested in how geography was taught or defined around 1930’s. in the article it states in the 20th century “In the West during the second half of the 19th and the 20th century, the discipline of geography went through four major phases: environmental determinism, regional geography, the quantitative revolution, and critical geography.” Each time had its own ideas and they overlapped some. it does show depending on the time and who taught the ideas the ideas varied.
          geography was my favorite subject in school in the early 1970s in Texas. my teacher & the book she used focused on the region or place, the people & their customs, and how they interacted with others with history thrown in to explain the whys.
          example: the farmers mostly grow fruit in the area, they came from a place that grew fruit and brought that skill here when the moved looking for more land, or better water.the area proved good for fruit growing so they developed a town etc. it was most about who, why, when, and how. if you have trouble spelling the word remember this
          George Elliots Oldest Girl Rode A Pony Home Yesterday = geography. I agree geography is about the basics & what was called the Regional Geography. before the use of the word “geography” it was more about discover and map making.
          in MO i think keeping it simple is best.

      • zaphod7391,
        I agree that “Specifically, having detailed geographic knowledge of northern New Mexico, western Colorado, Wyoming and Montana” will help. Having geographic knowledge of those areas means understanding the names of various geographic features and how they came to exist IMO Understanding how plate tectonics, geomorphology, geology, hydrology, sedimentology shape the surface of the RMs is pretty basic geography. A mountain range doesn’t just pop up anywhere. The water cycle causes land features to wear down and various other processes cause land to shift and move. Understanding those basic things certainly falls under a comprehensive knowledge of geography in my opinion.

        Definition of Geography-
        “the science of description of the earth’s surface in its present condition,” 1540s, from Middle French géographie (15c.), from Latin geographia, from Greek geographia “description of the earth’s surface,” from geo- “earth” + -graphia “description” (see -graphy). (https://www.etymonline.com/word/geography)

        a science that deals with the description, distribution, and interaction of the diverse physical, biological, and cultural features of the earth’s surface (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)

        I do not think that geography is the only thing necessary to understand this poem. There is a lot more to it than that.

  7. Can someone tell me what scrapbook number the picture of the tree cutter and the bird sitting on the moon is please? I think Aaron posted it a few weeks back.

    Thank you

  8. Here is a link to my latest compilation of Fenn Treasure sites as regional maps for anybody interested. I currently have 16 published Search sites displayed and about 60 places named Brown. No doubt there are many more of both. I welcome inclusion of any additional solves or HOB’s which Searchers are willing to provide to the general community. I recognize that some are reluctant or unwilling to share their Solves or failed searches, and that is understandable. But there must be some that, like me, are willing to share their ideas and experiences with all searchers.


    • Mckendree, If you are a serious searcher you wouldn’t share anything that indicates your chosen TC location. C’mon .

      • I disagree. I have only put Solves on my map that people have willingly and generously published in some form, whether as a blog post, a book, or some other forum. I’m just looking for more of these that I might not be aware of. Sure, maybe these searchers are not “serious” but I doubt that is the case. They are just as serious as you and I, but for one reason or another have chosen to share their adventure with others. I would say that nearly all of these solutions come from people who have made at least one trip to their site and failed to find the tc (Doug Meyer appears to be an exception). What I’m trying to do is to put these various “failed” solves on maps so that people can see where they’re located in reference to their own ideas or planned botg trips.

    • Thanks, McKendree! That’s a lot of work. I see you’ve updated! :).

      I noticed a Wahb Springs solve from someone. I hiked out there a couple of years ago, just for the sightseeing, not a solve… couldn’t make it. Way TFTW for me, and oh those bison and that thunder and lightning!

    • McKendree – Thank you for sharing your hard work! I will study this map closely and get back to you if I have and relevant updates you might want to include. Sandy

    • McKendree;

      Thanks for your work, and thanks for posting for all to see. Good luck in your search – JDA

      • so many BROWNS JUST THOUGHT ID MENTION be careful the tics are out just dug one out of moms back for the life of me i cant figure how she caught this little guy he was well dug in shes cant walk in the bush weird have fun be safe better yet if its dangerous walk away and think some more

  9. “Where warm waters halt” is a riddle, “a mystifying, misleading, or puzzling question posed as a problem to be solved or guessed often as a game, conundrum, enigma, something difficult to understand.” FF denied there were any riddles in the beginning, but he has more recently admitted to “my riddle.” There are only four states to consider. When FF said it has something to do with geography, I grimaced and thought Don’t just give it to them! If you Google “Geography of [each State],” you may notice in the first paragraph where warm water stops being warm water. Not everyone who reads the answer to the riddle will recognize it, but IMO, a brilliant riddle created by a brilliant man. This is only the first clue. FF is sly with his use of the language, and the clues do not get much easier, but I do believe WWWH was the hardest.

  10. OK Folks, especially you Seeker, I shouldn’t share this but I will, IMO the blaze looks like a shoe. The whole chase comes down to an in your face moment. IMO Seeker, you will never find the TC due to your own overwhelming questions, that you can’t answer without first experiencing BOTG, like myself and other searchers like JDA. I don’t know how many botg you’ve done. You personally, have to pick a spot to START, to begin answering your numerous questions, or you will be lost in this chase Forever. IMO

      • What state is your solve Afana, are you staying in the same search area or is this a different solve?

    • Afana….keep your eyes open for “toes”. A sandal is also a shoe. Oh those toes….Mr Fenn was averse to wearing shoes and took them off every chance he got. Hush, puppies.

      • Remember all the slippers, and the sock with the toe hole? And beaded moccasins, the first item in the ‘eclectic collection’. I don’t think a foot or toes or shoe is a blaze shape, but maybe one man’s shoe is another man’s alligator. For Sacajawae it was a breaverhead, and that was a tall hat fashion that sustained trappers.

    • Afana,
      I agree the chase will have a moment that you describe as; in your face. Some call it the ahh! moment, fenn implies the ‘what took me so long idea’… going with a smile, leave with a grin… Call it what ya will.

      But ya just can’t, as you say; ‘personally, have to pick a spot to START, to begin answering your numerous questions,’
      That’s guessing. Working on a hunch. Jumping the gun… or as fenn stated; If you don’t have the first clue nailed down, don’t go.

      Like others… you think my questions want ‘answers’ from the blogs. They asked to provoke conversion out of the norm. The norm being comments similar to yours as, Just do it, line of thinking. [ that’s great idea if your in the business of selling sneaker. ]
      The questions I posted are all questions ‘I personally need to answer Myself’ in the attempt not to do exactly what ya’ll are doing… Just going… using the excuse that; this is what fenn wants, for us to be out doors.
      So don’t worry about my questions… listen to the guy who wrote the poem.

      The concept is great; go enjoy, live it up, take it all in, smell a little fresh air before it’s all gone…Only, I’m looking to solve the challenge. That can’t be done with the simplistic attitude… ‘pick a place’, any place I hope, and run blindly to my favorite watering hole just because there’s a canyon near by and a beaver dam down the road, a electrical line near a train station that happens to have a rock that looks like a shoe at the end of the path.

      If that is how this “challenge” ‘should’ be done… well, I’m not doing it. Ya fell for the sale pitch, and that fine. Some need that sale’s pitch / the lure, to get their butts out of the house.

      But.. But.. BUTT.. Seeekerr… fenn said; you won’t know your WWWH is correct until you find the chest. Umm err, my only logical response for that is, and with respect; ~ Well, Duh!

      • “You have to find out- you have to *learn* where the first clue is They get progressively easier after you *discover* where the first clue is.”

    • A shoe eh? I was thinking top hat or thimble. Why do I have this sudden urge to play Monopoly?

      I went out searching yesterday and all I found was and old cawfee mug. Maybe Seeker does go out after all.

      • So far, I’ve collected the battleship, iron, and cannon (geographical places within a small area). Mr Money Bags (top hat) has the cute little dog. Afana is looking for a shoe or boot. One of those 22 properties leads to the silver cuff bracelet with 22 turquoise beads. I’m out of jail Wednesday…time to play monopoly indeed.

  11. Sandy,
    I personally believe that people looking for of HOB that incles the word Brown, was owned by somebody named Brown or in any way references the color Brown is wasting their time. I believe the HOB is a place where “brown” is created.

      • The simplest reason is because Forrest CHOSE to capitalize it. I think that that will be the case whatever Brown turns out to be.
        A person, place or a thing, or a combination of any of the three. JMO – JDA

      • tighterfocus,

        “Why would Brown be capitalized?”
        To draw attention to it. IMO

        I also don’t think that Brown is used as a noun in the poem or in several places in the book TTOTC. If you consider another part of speech for Brown, then you might come up with some interesting ideas that are strongly hinted at in the TTOTC. IMO

    • That right there looks like pretty well done drama programming. Like “Dallas” set in the Rocky Mountains.

  12. Morning everyone,

    Well, I’ve got some bad news and some good news.

    Though I remain confident I’m in the right search area, I came up empty handed this time out. That’s the bad news. The good news is that a few days after my search, I made what I believe to be a significant find. But I’m not sure how/where to use it because it could possibly answer a few clues. Remember his “That sounds like three or four to me” comment during his CBC As It Happens interview?

    I had a great time nevertheless. Prefect weather, beautiful scenery, wonderful hiking, and no bear sightings thank you very much! My groin pull mostly went away on the second day, though I had to be a little careful going uphill. Downhill was no problem at all.

    I had one serious heart stopping moment where heavy loads, waters high, and effort worth the cold all came together at one location. AND it was the perfect hiding place to boot! I scoured the area but no luck.

    So I t’s back to the poem time for me to figure out what I missed or misinterpreted and discover how my post hunt find factors into the correct solve.

    Take care all…………Pinatubocharlie

    • Pina,

      Glad you had such a great time searching. Please do a write up with pictures for Dal to post. I love pictures of the RMs.

    • Sorry to hear the TC didn’t make itself seen, but it sounds like you still had some gains from your search and didn’t go home empty handed 🙂 Post connections are both awesome and frustrating!

      Glad your groin pull is better, and that your excursion didn’t worsen it. I have found often with my chronic health issues, that staying in motion is important, even when it hurts as long as I don’t over do it.

      Hope your post connections serve you well on your next hunt!

    • DARN! Glad that you had a good time, and glad that your groin pull decided to be nice. Sure is nice to get out in nature isn’t it? Take care, and hope that your new insight pays off – Glad you are back safe – JDA

      • Thank you KK, Swwot, and JDA.

        Even at my age of almost 69, I can be very ornery and down right stubborn when it comes to letting health issues get in my way. That darn groin pull; I never have had one of those before and I’m sure glad I was able to put it back in it’s place so to speak.

        Getting out into nature is wonderful, but my wife and I are fortunate enough to actually live in her splendor after all of our hard work and sacrifice BR, Before Retirement that is. .

        I’d love to post photos and all that of my search, but this area is just way too hot for my solve at least, so I just cannot do that at this time. Sure hope you guys understand.

        TIghterfocus, regarding my post hunt find, I can only say that when I showed my discovery to my brother, a retired F-4 Phantom WISO, a Nam A-7 Pilot, and a post Nam instructor pilot said to me “this is the most significant and compelling evidence you have ever shared”. My sister-in-law was equally stunned, but my son didn’t quiet get it. Different generation I guess. Sadly, I have not shared it with my daughter as yet because she’s got issues with her husband and I don’t trust him one iota.

        Not to change the subject, but I hope she is strong enough to make the right decision and jettison that s#b a****hole at about 30,000 AGL doing Mach 5. His mouth can flap all over the place just like it did when he was here for dinner one Christmas Eve, 7 years ago. Never again!

        Sorry about that. But she deserves better. And my job as her father is to ensure she gets it…………without him!

        Enough already with family problems. There is an important hint with regards to WWWH south of Sante Fe. Oh yeah. The caveat so Dal doesn’t “jettison” me…… IMO.


        And it’s like next door to where I was actually searching. My jaw dropped when I discovered it and so I cannot share exact;y what it it, but for me, it is critical to the correct solve. I just need to figure out how it fits in like I previously said.

        • Welcome back from a successful search. You may not have found Indulgence, but you found “Something” that may prove helpful on your next search. Good luck to you and yours – JDA

        • Pina,

          Your new discovery sounds promising and convincing. Post hunt connections in the area of search are so exciting. I had a recent discovery like that in my area, and it was likewise convincing to a family member I shared it with. I wonder if perhaps we share a general search area. If so, there are a couple other significant connections in that area as well.

          Sounds like every gal should have a Dad like you. Speaking from my own experience, sometimes all we can do is eject ourselves, and in the words of William Stafford, “weave a parachute out of everything broken” on the way down. Anyways, I hope for the best outcome for your daughter as I have walked in those shoes.

          I wish you continued discovery & many happy hunts.

          • Thank you very much for the kind thoughts KK.

            A few years ago, because I knew my daughter would be a lot happier, I offered an olive branch to him with one provision, he apologize to the entire family for grossly disrespecting my wife and I during that Christmas dinner so many years ago.

            He refused. This guys got a giant chip on his shoulder and based upon what she has shared with my son’s fiancé who she treats like a sister, is close to taking the next step. And I can hold my breath longer than he can hold a job.

            Though the timing is not optimal, she will be coming to the house for Father’s Day weekend when we will, for the first time, discuss divorce with her. For me, her agreement would be the best gift I could get from her. I just want her to be happy.

            Thank you again KK.


        • Glad you made it back with some revelations Pina. I didn’t come across anyone limping while I was out so I guess our paths didn’t cross.

          Will you be going out on another search this summer?

          • Glad you made it back ok too Aaron. No, we’re looking in different areas based on an earlier post that you’re in Yellowstone.

            Yes, I will be searching again, once for sure, maybe twice. Though my area is many miles out of the way, I’m going to drive (with a lot of tools) to my brother’s place to help rebuild an elevated deck in September, so the current plan is to make a big a detour and search for a day or two on the way.

            That being said, if I can make those lines cross at the right spot before September, then I’ll make a special trip before then. I discovered another interesting “coincidence” the other day I need to explore, but haven’t had much time as yet. It has to do with the key and the interpretation of line 16.


        • Totally understand Pina, good luck to you as you continue to put boots on the ground!

    • That sounds just like my search this last Friday without the groin pull. I am definitely curious how many perfect hiding spots are out there as I have been working on getting more picky on how well the clues need to match the geography but it raises the same scenario you have: “So I t’s back to the poem time for me to figure out what I missed or misinterpreted and discover how my post hunt find factors into the correct solve.”

      Good luck on your next time out!

  13. Richard L, Im fairly certain the “Big Picture” is the history of the Rocky Mountains which can be seen in the geology and geography. Does anyone know know why there are “no short cuts”? I think I do

    • From that logic there are shortcuts in the history of the Rocky Mountains and I happen to live in an area that had features originally thought to have taken millions of years to form and didn’t.

      • Idle Dreamer,
        I can see that you are using a different definition of “shortcut”. You are right that there are places with shortcuts. But, I was applying a different definition. Lucky you that you live in the RMs!

    • The comment regarding the ‘big picture’ can be taken that way. Was that the intention?

      Given the question, the ‘big picture’ is the whole poem. Do not take just the concepts such as warm waters halt, home of Brown or the blaze and run with it. THAT will be looking for a short cut. You must understand all the clues or the whole poem. BIG PICTURE.

      • Oz10, I would definitely agree that this is most likely the intention such that the poem as a whole reveals the correct location as otherwise the Rocky Mountains is full of Warm Waters Halt, Homes of Brown, and blazes. Only with the big picture (all clues) can you narrow it down enough to get to the solve.

      • From first Stanza to last, there are no shortcuts. Don’t skip to stanza 2 just because it says to begin it there.

        • Yup,
          Even the first word in the poem is critical, though not in the same way that HoB can be critical. All IMO.

      • Oz10,
        I agree that the entire poem is essential to the solve. Those people choosing to skip over one or more stanzas claiming they don’t contain clues, are in my opinion, missing important information.

    • Flutter –

      The Big Picture on the page shows you what the answer to the riddle looks like in it’s completed form. Your goal to make it. You cannot take any shortcuts and yet hope to complete the task as resulting in the “it” pictured.

      Of course, Fenn telling to you look at the big picture is sly. You will not know what it looks like until your solve(ing) is complete(d). For, if you saw the Big Picture, you would know what you need to do.

      That’s my take.

  14. Dear Forrest, You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is:

    a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and
    b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”

    Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail? Steve

    No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?

    Here is another comment that supports the theory that you need more than the first clue to find your starting place. -Begin it where warm waters halt- is our first clue but by itself will not yield a starting location. We need to solve it and know it, that seems to be crucial but is it a place by itself? Apparently not.

    There are many places where warm waters halt and most N of SF. That is a shortcut that will not work, why? It is the wrong understanding of that clue.

    • Here are a couple good ones to help…
      2013 EIS Radio….
      ” You have to find out- you have to *learn* where the first clue is. They get progressively easier after you *discover* where the first clue is.”
      Another from that time period….
      ” No *specialized* knowledge is required mdavis19, and I have no expectations. My *Thrill of the Chase book* is enough to lead an average person to the treasure.”
      I would think that comments like these should help steer folks from getting too deep into researching all kinds of crazy subjects outside of the poem and TTOTC. Maybe some map work too…but I believe the other stuff is just a waste….
      Welcome back Pina ! Back to the poem is a good thing….take care.

      • yes Ken, I love that first one. To me it screams that you have to find the end point before the starting point. With one way in and one way out, “you have to find ‘out'” to learn where the first clue is. You have to “discover” where the first clue is. This doesn’t go well with the clue to clue peeps. If you think about it, we know the first clue is line 5, but, line 5 doesn’t solve for where warm waters halt. So what does? Whatever does, if you are solving clues, would have to be considered the clue. If it’s a later line or something in the book, then that would be the clue. But yet, line 5 is the clue. There are so many things wrong in trying to solve the clue instead of discovering the clue, and even f’s own words that the info to solve correctly is not there, it’s amazing that we still have peeps saying they have solved clue 1 instead of finding or discovering clue 1. Like you said “I would think that comments like these should help steer folks from getting too deep into researching all kinds of crazy subjects outside of the poem and TTOTC”. I totally agree. The starting point, clue 1, can only be found when you find “out”.

      • The radio comment of 2013, is slightly different than most of fenn’s comments about the first clue idea.
        **You have to find out- you have to *learn* where the first clue is.

        Learn, is an interesting word because many are basically looking for a place. So is there something we need to learn about WWWH? The other idea is; learn to mean the tool / reference we have, the book. basically learn from the book to “discover” where the first clues is. I contend it might be both.

        This idea, or these ideas, seem to balance out the idea that no ‘special’ knowledge is needed.. the knowledge that IS needed is supplied… so fenn has “no expectations” of folks having any other knowledge… be it: employment, sKoolin, training, who who can do the best research.
        Fenn has given us the encyclopedia we need.

        The major problem I think is how we read the tool/reference/book… many want ‘answer’ as if the book is an encyclopedia. [Turn to the W page and look up Warm Waters.]

        Do you want a guy who has 4 years of college working on your car, or a guy who has worked on car for 4 years, line of thinking.
        I almost want to say fenn kinda messed up a bit when he said; {paraphrasing} read the poem over and over and over then read the book slow looking for hints.
        Combined with; All the “information” to find the chest is in the poem.
        At first glance of these two comments… the emphasis is on the poem.
        BUT where can we go to “learn” of clues that only one person is the entire world know the answers to?
        The “clues” are made up… yet, must fit the real landscape… so we need to “learn” the clues rather than simply decipher location[s]

        The question we might want to ask is: What is the lesson about?
        IS this -?- what fenn meant about the idea of ‘ comprehensive knowledge of geography might help’? Or is there something altogether different to consider?

        I’m going to add my own food for thought…
        fenn wanted to take it with him, why? Answer; to be found later [ hence the bio to explain ]
        Fenn said he wanted to influence future generations [ sounds like he wanted to teach them something ].
        And was thinking down the road thousands of years… as well as looking at the big picture.
        Now look at the stories in the book of memoirs… everyone of them had a lesson learned…
        The opening to TTOTC:
        Well, at almost eight and I think that’s so funny, Oh! I don’t mean funny because I’m almost eight, but it’s funny because I said it that way… But I don’t care anyways. Over the years more important things came in and out of my live…
        Authored by a guy who begged for D’s

        • Seeker, consider this:

          Learn = “L” Earn = Answer to WWWH = Authorization to proceed into the Canyon . . .

          Only rudimentary skoolin’ needed, too . . . LOL.

          • I see your thought. I mean I see where your heading with your thought… I think.

            Are you saying we need permission or we need [example only] a ticket to ride?
            I don’t care myself, but ‘she’ care

          • ‘She’ . . .
            Agree . . . I hope mine matches yours. Will find out in a few weeks.

        • Seeker, you caught me, I was paraphrasing from Ken, my bad. Anyway, I can see what you are saying. Maybe there is a lesson to learn, but then this ATF:
          Other than the poem describing how to locate the Trove and one of its purposes to encourage people to get out of the house and away from electronics, is the poem designed to convey a deeper significance? Is there a subtle message you are sharing with the reader and hope they realize? ~ Seeker
          .No Seeker,
          The poem is straight forward with no subterfuge in sight. Someone in an email asked me if I didn’t know where the treasure was, and could have the answer to any clue in the poem, which would I choose. I think that question is so funny and it makes me wonder how Jenny’s readers might answer it.f
          might be saying that there really is no lesson to be learned. I like the thought, especially with the stories he picked for the book and the path that they take seems to confirm some lesson of some kind, but then again, maybe just a guy telling his life and it was he that went through the lessons.
          Wasn’t there a comment by f awhile back where he said something along the lines that he wanted us to follow in his footsteps? Maybe that’s why it may seem like a lesson learned type of thing. I’m still trying to learn when he went to hide the chest. :).
          In looking into it, because he did say that he didn’t want to give that info because it is too much of a clue, thinking about it, too much of a clue means we should be trying to figure it out. Or at least give it it’s day in court. It brings up the possible two trips in one afternoon or two trips on different days debate, brings up how he sees words and defines them, along with his comments, and be it as lesson learned, would suggest an architecture of his comments and the many ways to interpret, because going by what he said at book value, it does not compute.
          There are 28,800 words in TToTC, that is pretty close to the amount of days in 80 years, 29,220. Maybe the 420 words that are missing are the lesson..? You know he doesn’t like “know-it-alls”, maybe the design of the chase is to show how those type fail, and they are not all that much smarter then a kid trying to get “D’s”. lol, put me in the proud to know nothing camp, I might have a chance…

          • Yeah, I don’t know what that ‘seeker’ was thinking about…
            Honestly, If I had put a bit more thought to the question – leaving out the poem – and asked more about; how he would like to influence, or what he hoped future generations would ‘learn’ from the challenge,…

            LOL, I’d probably get the same answer.
            Aaaah… but I was young and naive and better lookin’ in those days. I remember in those days I use to have a chest… no, not that kinda chest the other one… Well, I still do, only I call it my stomach now.
            I’d like to blame it on gravity… but gravity lately is getting enough of a bad rep.

    • Oz10,

      Yes, this is another confirmation that to solve the whole puzzle, there can be no holes in your solution. (How does one put holes into a liquid? 🙂 )

      It seems that as we searchers continue to re-hash all the info, it just doesn’t seem likely that if you can identify the correct starting point only that you can walk up to Indulgence. It seems that you have to know more so you can be confident in your solution.

      And that is my opinion – your mileage may vary,

    • Ken, and others searchers,

      Please, for an American,

      The place where you “live” for a while, can be considered a place where you “halt”?

      • McB –

        Again, to me, you seem to grasp the important concepts of this challenge.

        Rest = halt

        Begin at the place where “warm waters” rest before they begin the journey “down canyon”.

        Warm waters does not refer to a body of water in my opinion. And canyon down does not refer to a canyon. These are the Clues.


      • No, ‘halt’ would be a very unusual term to use in colloquial American English in that context.

        • (“unusual term” in reference to McB’s original question, not to Lug’s response that preceeded mine)


          • Hi Jake –

            Think about this if you will.

            Way back when Forrest was writing the poem to enable folks to locate the treasure, he probably wrote the directions or clues much more directly. When he says he looked up words he may have been doing what many writers do, use the thesaurus.

            If I write a song and the first line has the word “car” and then the third line also has “car” I think I should change the word. So I think or I look up similar words. I change the word to “ride”. The line might now read My ride will carry me through. I am referring to my car but it might sound like I am referring to something else, maybe ride is a verb instead of a noun.

            So in the above example with Halt I don’t think that’s the original word. Would you agree? It’s not a word that leaps to mind. It isn’t used often. It doesn’t rhyme. So maybe the word was rest originally and he need it to be vague. So Halt is a synonym and it interested him.

            I don’t know this is true, but i find these exercises useful. I have rewritten the recipe or blueprint many times.


          • * * * * upstream a ways, or maybe down, Lug supposed – “So in the above example with Halt I don’t think that’s the original word. Would you agree? It’s not a word that leaps to mind. It isn’t used often. It doesn’t rhyme. So maybe the word was rest originally and he need it to be vague. So Halt is a synonym and it interested him. * * * *

            I think the heart of that is that “not far but too far to walk” was too good a line to discard (or alter), so he was gonna work around it whatever way he could.

            It’s a stone classic phrase. (No idea if it’s an ff original or not – I sure haven’t located an earlier source.)

            Reminds me of the old Down East classic comic bit – traveler asks a Maine old-timer for directions to Wherever-ville:

            “You cain’t get theyah from heyah.”



        • Jake???
          Since when is American English differ from original or plain English? [ there’s no such animal ]

          My little chuckle to myself is; ‘I speak American because my English sucks’~ is a perfect example of what fenn probably meant by telling the searcher, Wordsmith, to look up the word several and see how many of us don’t understand the words we use everyday ~ [colloquial American English]
          Colloquial is a poor excuse for being lazy… I should know, Cuz I’da be edumacated. That’s why “Sup” doesn’t mean how many use it today.

          By that line of thinking; ‘Home” in the poem can’t possible have anything to do with Halt?

          Just for fun, and many think fish are involved with warm waters halt… IF home is meant as habitation and fish use warm waters for their hatching… is that not a temporary halt in their home, because they inhabit all waters? [ fresh waters in the case ] but only use warm waters for a reason.

          Whatever McB actually meant… there is a pretty good reasoning [ depending on the direction of one’s solve ] the idea of halt to be a temporary change… and that change might be their habitation[ home ] over all.

          LOL I don’t buy into that idea/example… but it can’t be ruled out, that the words are not meant this way only because of “today’s” poor understanding of word usage.

          • Oi, you nutters, it’s all tickety-boo, Seek and Lug.

            I was answering narrowly (and briefly):

            * * * * McB – Please, for an American,
            The place where you “live” for a while, can be considered a place where you “halt”? * * * *

            For an American, the place where you put the grocery bags is the “boot”, or the “bonnet”?

            I understand enough englishes to answer “boot”, but I (a Merican) wouldn’t phrase it that way (unless ‘avin’ a laugh).

            [Halted by heavy snow, the Donner Party scouted around for a nice winter campsite.]

            So sure, we’d understand and accept someone saying “I halted at a rest stop (or “layby”, in some englishes) till sunrise”, but again, we probably wouldn’t phrase it that way.

            To an American, “Halt, who goes there?” and “. . . came to a screeching halt” are the kinds of phrases with ‘halt’ that come to mind. (Canadians, ‘Strains, South Africans, and Yorkies too, for all I know, but McB’s question was “for an American”).

            So I’ll rephrase (and double up) my original short answer to match the short question McB asked:

            No, to an American ‘halt’ would be an unusual word to use in that context.
            I wouldn’t tell someone “I halted at a hotel for the night instead of driving straight through”, but I would understand what someone telling me that was saying.
            I’d figure they were probably from Canadia (or writing a puzzle-poem).

            Beauty day, eh? 😉


      • Hm. For me, personally, I live at home. Halt would not be a word I would ever use to describe being there, or living there awhile. Unless I wrote, “I drove up in my car and halted outside my house.” But I’d probably say, “stopped.” Halt is a very unusual word, IMO.

      • Google translator is not very efficient.

        Lugnutz understood what I meant.

        Rest = halt

        I did not mean live all life in a house.

        I referred to this more as a Hotel where you usually stay in your week-long trips to the beach, for example.

  15. What is the chase?

    If we are chasing the treasure, what was Forrest chasing when he conceived of the poem. New vs old

  16. Forrest tells us “It doesn’t matter who you are, it only matters who they think you are.”….. And later described a marketing ploy of putting whole page ads for his gallery and products in high-end art magazines. Readers thought he was an authority, when in fact he was just a bold businessman. Perhaps he learned that trick from an earlier marketing ploy that also was very lucrative. Kandy Kake bars were made in a Chicago Factory within blocks of Wriggly Field. In 1921 the bars were renamed Baby Ruth and sales soared. The Sultan of Swat, the Caliph of diirt, sued but lost. The one letter tweak in the name meant the Babe could not collect royalties. Forrest Fenn’s NAME was all he had, he said they couldn’t take that away. Hmmm.

    A starting read might be page 18 of this link which tells me there is a lot this name just in YNP. https://dspace.library.colostate.edu/bitstream/handle/10217/68228/2007_Summer_Thesis_Lemly.pdf?sequence=1
    Moving on to other names in ‘special knowledge’ reports, a photo of Lizard Head in CO reminded me of Elvis and Beowulf. Another interesting morning.

    • OS2 – I see that there are a number of fens by Grebe Lake. And 166 fens in YNP. Why does that number seem familliar? Go figure.

  17. Guy’s,

    I have always wondered about the following;

    When Forrest said the T.C isn’t in a dangerous place, does he mean where the T.C is hidden or is he talking about the whole area in which the poem was written for.

    What do you guy’s think?

    Stay safe

    Ronnie the Scot

    • I think he means you don’t have to go down any super steep cliffs, or spots that are questionable (like under a raging waterfall). The spot is relatively safe for the average person as long as they use common sense and come prepared for the location (One of the biggest being to bring bear spray). If you do come to the US make sure you have a GPS (I use a Garmin with 100k Topo) as that can literally save you hours in the field (So much easier to plot a route to a place off trail if you know exactly where you are at all times and what the topography looks like). Ronnie, are you in the US yet for BOTG?

      • Idle Dreamer,

        All being well I will be leaving the UK on the 21st June.

        I won’t say where my search area is going to be, however I will say this.

        It will take me between two and two and a half days to get to my search spot.

        I’m so excited now.

        I cannot wait to get BOTG, to see your beautiful country and look for a hidden treasure chest at the same time.

        WOW what more can I say.

        Stay safe and good luck to you all for this search season.

        Ronnie the Scot

        • Please keep us informed as to your progress. If you need a “point of contact” here in the states – email me at SculptorJDA at aol dot com. I will then give you a contact number or two so that you have a “Point of contact.

          Good luck, and STAY SAFE – JDA

        • Hope you have a great trip and enjoy the your visit. be safe and have fun and leave room for crow meal just in case. lol

        • “It will take me between two and two and a half days to get to my search spot”.

          Don’t hitch-hike. There are many people looking to rip-off a hitch-hiking Scot. Just rent a car and you can be far more certain about how long it will take you to get there.

          Just a week ago I overheard two guys talking in a “Denny’s” restaurant. I didn’t hear much, but I did hear ….”and the poor guy was hitch-hiking in the Rockies and someone picked him up and stole all of his stuff!” The other fellow said “Was he Scottish?” And the guy answered “as a matter of fact he was!” Then the other guy says “That figures. He should have just used a rental car”.

          So it really might be wise if you rent a car and drive as far as you can. Then hike from there. Put all of your haggis high in a tree if you camp too. Bears love Scottish food and Scottish people. All the best to you! Good luck!

          • Will eat Scottish food and Scots? Now there’s the definition of an omnivore. One grizzly to another “If that accent doesn’t put you off they’re not half bad, but haggis on the other hand…”

            Enjoy your trip Ronnie.

        • Enjoy your trip Ronnie and good luck in your search. I hope the weather is as good for you as it was for me. Beware of afternoon thunderstorms. They can pop up out of nowhere and get nasty very quickly.


    • That all depends on how close you think the clues are to each other I would think.

      Also, what is not dangerous to one that has spent a lot of time off trail might be be different than what is perceived as dangerous to others. It is like “close proximaty”. Nobody really knows what that means except for FF.

    • I believe he means the general area encompassing where the tc is hidden, and the location of the treasure itself. I don’t know if you have children, or nieces/nephews, but if YOU are questioning doing anything, it probably means it isn’t suitable for a child, so the answer would be “no, not there”.

    • “Bloggers have quoted me as saying that achild could walk up to the treasure. I don’t think that’s an accurate quote because a * three* year old would have a problem without some help. Remember I was about 80 when I hid the chest and had to make two trips.”
      “There is no percentage in searching where a 79 or 80 year old man could not carry the treasure.”
      ” A family that is joined together and going out looking for the treasure four, five, ten or fifty times. Take a tent and your sleeping bags and your fishing pole and go out looking. That was my primary motive.”
      Of course there are those who believe Fenn is Buster the Body Crab reincarnated and can leap tall mountains in a single bound…or that he hiked a couple miles one way…four times and hid the treasure in an afternoon…and I’m sure he likes very much that many think these things. I respect my elders…and have learned they often have very creative alternatives to doing things the *hard way*.
      Good luck Ronnie ! I hope you enjoy your journey and that it is a safe one….

      • I agree, Ken.

        If you are serious about the quest, small children should stay at home.

        Or with the mother in the car or at the camp.

      • Ken,
        Thanks for the post. I have read the statement about “joined” before but at the time it did not have any significance to us. However, I read your post last night and it alerted me to the word “joined”…..mostly because this time it jumped out at me as it didn’t seem to flow with the statement. FF is a word geek…not meant as demeaning but in admiration because he studies the meanings/origins of words before he uses them.
        I looked up “joined”. My research shows “joined” to be “to connect as with a straight line. It is also a Proto-Indo European (PIE) word. I’m kinda focused on the origin of words used in statements by FF. So I then looked up “connect”.
        Connect=to join to a communications circuit. There is more to my research but I do not want to reveal this as it is part of our solve.
        Thank you for the above post as it gave a little more clarity and justification as well as an aha moment for our solve. Even though this is part of our solve I hope it helps other searchers.
        Good luck and stay safe.

        • Tarheel…thanks not needed although appreciated. My post above was to just toss a few under- estimated comments in the ring to perhaps keep things in the realm of reality. I recall early in the search stories of LONG treks in bad territory…folks getting lost and worse since then. This is even after Fenn has repeatedly cautioned folks to reel it back in. I have thought long and hard about folks coming in from other parts of the world to a land that is unfamiliar to them and maybe even not outdoors types. Sometimes I cringe a bit when these thought occur…one can only hope folks use discretion.
          Glad you found some connections Tarheel…maybe it is just the nudge you need. Have fun on your next journey…

    • * * * * re R the S – “When FF said the T.C isn’t in a dangerous place, does he mean where the T.C is hidden or is he talking about the whole area in which the poem was written for.” * * * *

      To live and die in the Rockies –



      1 – if the water’s running, stay on your feet or your seat;

      2 – if rangers approach, hold your fire;

      3 – if you’re 20+ feet up, stop when the path gets any narrower than a parking space.

      A search is likely well to the safe side of the various activities that crowds of outdoor enthusiasts get up to in the Rockies all year round.

      Gravity and momentum are probably the leading causes of death or injury. People can get hurt within site of a parking lot, and sometimes without even being particularly stupid. It’s a very small proportion of the participants. Even baseball parks have first aid stations.

      Wear good boots, a hat, and water bottles, and bring a map you can read, a compass, a bandana, and a pocket knife.


      • Now I’m afraid to leave my house… Anyone want tickets for opening day at Fenway park?

        Ya gotta love #2; – if rangers approach, hold your fire;
        Everyone else is a turkey shoot. lol… I’m going order a ranger’s outfit to play it safe while hunting for treasure.

      • Gravity gets me every time along with momentum and I don’t bounce as good as I use too lol

        • Heh.

          I’m pretty bad at dodging gravity fields too, sometimes.

          In fact I’ve got fresh stitches on my left arm after a gravity/momentum incident while moving a wall mirror Monday evening. I got off lightly, all things considered.


          • Gravity can get you when you least expect it. I am able to move from rock to rock, climb over or under downed trees, forge rivers and creeks on trees or by wading, while hiking just fine. While walking from one rock to another in attempt to get a good picture of family and the coastline last weekend I had a nasty fall. It is odd because things like that never happen to me. The shoes had less grip than my hiking boots and I was paying more attention to the picture than my steps. While falling toward the large rock I held the phone up so it wouldn’t break. My stomach, elbow, chin, and knee took the brunt of the fall.

            It pays to where the right gear and focus on what you are doing when dealing with gravity.

    • With the exception of the drive i think the place is very safe. that said i tripped over a rock on our trail and missed hitting my head on a large rock barely sticking up from the ground. what if a person is highly allergic to bee stings then the safety margin goes down. if you are overweight and not use to hiking short distances and carrying something heavy you might not be safe.

      it all depends on definitions and can be debated to death. simple answer is it should be reasonably safe to go to the TC but being safe is important and dont go where you wouldnt take a 10 year old child. our site now passes this test.

    • My vote is the entire length of the search – whatever that length may be. This is my opinion. There is no “daring-do” required. I am taking Mr. Fenn at his word when he said that he took two trips back and forth between his vehicle and the hidey spot of Indulgence.

      • He never said two trips back and forth to the car, you are adding to his statement. He made two trips to the TC location in one afternoon after leaving his car. He never stated where the trips originated or ended or that he even returned to his car that night.

        • He has also avoided answering whether another mode of transportation was involvwd between the car and walking less than a few miles. We k ow from scrapbook 6 he’s able to get around handily.

        • Eric D – you are wrong. He does state that he returned to his car. Here is the quote:

          “When I hid the treasure chest, I had to make two trips, because the thing weighs 42 pounds, its small but gold is heavy and when I had hid it and was walking back to my car I started laughing out loud and I said, “Forrest Fenn did you really do that?” (5:00)
          11/2/13 – Moby Dickens bookstore event

          He clearly states that he went back to his car, and implies that the two trips were made from his car to where he hid the Treasure Chest – JMO – but the fact is clear that he returned to his car.(at least once) – JDA

          • Just to play devil’s advocate….

            “When I hid the treasure chest, I had to make two trips, because the thing weighs 42 pounds……” He doesn’t say two trips to my car, he just says to trips. A possible scenario is that he could have toted the treasure to a water crossing and had a waiting raft or boat (or maybe he was just going to wade across), and due to the weight, he decided to take the treasure across the water in “two trips” so as the keep a balanced footing or boating across.

            At some point he was “walking back to his car” (maybe it was when he was leaving lunch the next day) and “started laughing out loud…”

            We can make the connection in our mind of what we want it to be. We have thought a certain way for quite a long time during our lives and so we are somewhat programmed to interpret words a certain way. Kids have a much shorter duration of thinking the way they do, so it is less ingrained in them. Their minds are more adaptive to a different way of thinking and perceiving. Hence the backwards bike guy’s experiment with him and his kid.

            I’m not saying that either is right or wrong, simply pointing out discrepancies in logic.

            I just flew from Austin to Wyoming and boy are my arms tired.—-Did I actually flap my arms like a bird and fly? Or did I have lots of baggage to tote with me when departing the airplane, which caused my arm muscles to strain and leave them feeling tired? Or am I carrying replacement tires for my car, 2 on each arm, and my arms are tired? Interpret one way at your own peril.


          • da wiser

            Just to play devil’s advocate – One can argue Anything anyway they choose. Forrest has said something to the effect that his statements are not meant to deceive. That being said, I think we should take Forrest at his word. He drove to “a” spot. He parked his “sedan”. He got out and took the treasure to his hidey spot and returned to the sedan. He then took the chest to the hidey spot, and returned to his sedan in the place that he parked it, and laughed at himself.

            Why one would – just to play devil’s advocate – try ti imagine something more complex, I guess I just do not understand. What is gained by not accepting Forrest at his word? I just do not see the logic of it. The poem is hard enough to solve, why make it harder by twisting the straight forward ATF’s that Forrest has published? JMO – JDA

        • Regarding alternate mode of transportation – Please see – Forrest gets mail, Item #3 where Forrest says something to the effect of – Why not just ride my bike out there etc. – JDA

          • JDA ,

            Couldn’t figure out como to respond to you in the right place, pero GRACIAS Caballero! Wow I am so thankful for all the info…SO we have a rooster, an ugly pot and a game of Canasta…Sounds like dinner at my Abuela’s lol. GRACIAS.

          • Y’all seem to be implying that a question is to be highly
            valued as a source of information. Please try to relax and
            let things slide. Ooh! tighter focus, did you really say that?

            The above is part of my opinion. Yours may diFFer.

        • While technically true, I’m trying not to “over-think” things.

          “What would I do in such a predicament?” is my mantra.

          Your mileage may vary,

        • daWiser, the way he initially answered that question and the alternate transportation question smelled of subterfuge. He chose his words wisely while answering. He has also stated that there is no human trail near the TC. Im betting theres a pack trail nearby. I don’t think he’d risk millions of dollars in gold on a raft but maybe he would.

          • That was just one alternate interpretation. He could have climbed into a hang glider (NFBTFTW) or mounted a steed or attached it to a zip line and then attached himself to another zip line. 80 is old, but not to old to zip.

            I really get a kick out of reading all of the different solves and ideas, and my wife has strong legs.

          • Eric;

            You say, “He chose his words wisely while answering. He has also stated that there is no human trail near the TC.” Yes, Forrest chose his words wisely…” but you didn’t. Forrest’s quote is, “There isn’t a human trail in VERY close proximaty (sic) to where I hid the treasure”. If you are going to attribute statements to Forrest – please take the time to quote him accurately – It saves a lot of confusion – Just sayin’ – JDA

          • 6/19/2014
            “Joe, you make things so complicated. Reminds me of the reason I don’t like meetings. I hope you don’t belong to a PTA someplace. I made two trips from my car to the hiding place and it was done in one afternoon. f”
            “It was heavy enough that I made two trips to hide it. I took the gold in one time, and then I took the treasure chest in the second time.”
            These are just a couple of the comments over the years, and it doesn’t seem all that complicated…unless folks need it to be to justify a solve that requires more than what an average 80 year old might do.

        • Eric D: you may be missing a quote:

          “Also, you’ve mentioned on multiple occasions that it took two “trips” to secret the chest and contents to a very special place. Perhaps someone has already asked this, but I’ve not found an answer yet posted or video recording that contains an answer. Forgive me if this is redundant, but were both trips made on the same day/date? Not to be anal, but that would be one spinaroo of the giant ball we call Earth that constitutes a single 24-hour day to its humble inhabitants. Thanks so much. Kind Regards, Joe”

          Forrest’s reply: “Joe, you make this thing so complicated. Reminds me of the reason I don’t like meetings. I hope you don’t belong to a PTA someplace. I made two trips from my car to the hiding place and it was done in one afternoon.f”

          Sounds crystal clear to me.

          • To me too Zap. Surprising how simple things become when one takes the time to do a wee bit of elemental research – JDA

          • Funny thing is, I completely agree with you folks. I just like to parse words and kick up dust when I can. 🙂 I don’t mean to deceive or misinform. It’s just fun stir the pot sometimes.


  18. Sorry to go over old ground, buy you know the more I think of it the TC has to be in a crevice or cove, if Mr Fenn intended to throw himself on the TC a leave his bones to be found then surely by law of average sooner or later be it an animal or human someone would ‘Happen’ across his bones if they wasn’t conceled/hidden in a crevice or cove, by his own admission the one major threat out of all the four elements he said was wind, well wind would also blow bones away if they were out in the open, however wind in a crevice or cove would contain the bones in the same space even if the blew them about a bit………Thoughts?

    • Butch,

      The most obvious answer to your question would be:

      On top of a rock, no bears, no humans, no other animals, no flood, no other rocks falling on top, except a vulture, maybe to clean the bones, and snow / rain to wash them.

      And, of course, the cool wind to leave the chest “cold”.

      ; )

    • Found one spot where there was a shelf that would have been a good spot for a chest that was just above a small alcove that could have held a body. The thought that I might have had to reach over a skeleton to reach the chest gives me the creeps.

        • Zap – Forrest stated that a metal detector would help if you’re in exactly the right spot. He also said the clues would lead you to the exact location of the chest. He has said it could be buried but he just doesn’t want to give out the clue whether it is or isn’t.

          I think a logical conclusion is that it may in fact be buried so that it isn’t found randomly by an unsuspecting person.

          • Mr Tenn also said that NO specialist tools were required to retrieve the chest, metal detector is a ST imo

          • morecowbell –

            You don’t need to bury a treasure to hide it. All you need to do is turn from the path and walk into the woods. People don;t do that, they just don’t.

            Next time you are in the woods, walk off the path 50 feet. Put a jar behind a tree with a 20 dollar bill in plain sight. Go back a year later and it will be there. Go back 5 years later and it will be there.

            Brother, I hunt Morel mushrooms. That’s done in the spring in the woods. Ain’t nobody walking in woods off trail.


          • More Bell,

            That is exactly correct – TToTC “precisely” to the treasure.

            And I also agree that it is technically buried and that is confirmed in my solution…

            “best to have gloves.” Mysterious writings March 11, 2016


        • Morecowbell and others: you’re forgetting an important Forrest quote: “Technology isn’t going to help you find that treasure chest” (or something very close to that — on my phone, so can’t access my database). GPS is undeniably serious technology; using one to navigate to coordinates would surely qualify as significant assistance, wouldn’t you agree?

          • Zap – He said use Google maps which uses gps technology so yes a gps in needed.

          • I meant to say Google Earth but either way technology will be needed to locate the tc imo.

          • Geezz guys,
            I thought I could split hairs better than most, but you guys have me beat.

            The GPS idea falls to “safety first”… I only suggest folks learn how to use them long before it might be needed.
            GE is a map, and a map is a map. GE only provides different details and supplies different types of mapping at your finger tips.

            Is it wrong for me to use Google search to look up words?
            In 3009 would it be wrong to use my hover-board, navigating my point to point solve while using my new version of GE universe mapping eye contacts?
            Heck, by the time I do solve the poem, lol in 3009, I’ll send my personal robot to go get it.

            Is technology truly needed?

          • Morecowbell: I’m just reporting what Forrest said on EIS radio. Up to you to decide how to interpret it. I choose to carry a GPS, but not because it will help me ~find~ the chest. The metal detector stays at home.

            “I still have about, uh, something like 4,000 arrowheads. And I tell people I’m saving those, because after the next war, I’ll make a fortune selling my arrowheads to different armies around the world. Einstein had said, “I don’t know what we’ll fight World War III with, but World War IV is going to be fought with sticks.” And the technology is changing so fast. I mean, if your computer is two years old, it’s archaic today. Technology is not going to help you find that treasure. But your mind and your body and your attitude changes as things change.”

          • “OnX Hunt”App. $29.00 a year gets you the best GPSystem on the planet. Download the map of your search area, turn phone on airplane mode and then turn the system to off grid so anyplace you don’t have cell service your phone will now connect to satellite and become a gps in your search area. Use it with a gps unit and brings you within your 20’ range of a good GPS unit. I use both while out and about. Awesome app. Best on on the market.

  19. Don’t count on your search area being open, even if you check before and enroute to your arrival. There are more areas closed than indicated by the National Forest Services for various reasons other than fire danger, which is in my case. By the time snow flies I still will not be able to go.

    I guess I’ll take some vacation time near where I wanted to search. The road has been washed out up the canyon and may not be repaired before snow falls.

    Out on the road sorry can’t reply back, no WiFi from here on out.

  20. Charlie are you over by the Greys’ River by chance? You must be very disappointed that you can’t search your area. I know you were very much looking forward to finding the TC and I’m sorry that you won’t have the opportunity after you have put so much time and effort into your solution. Remember, the chest will wait.

  21. Guy’s,

    Many thanks for your comments, it really means a lot to me.

    My trip is a once in a lifetime opportunity and I’m going to make sure that I enjoy every minute off it, however flying is not my strongest point.

    Many thanks guy’s for your advice regarding hitch hiking, I have hired a car for 10 days so no hitch hiking for me.

    JDA Many thanks for giving me your contact email details, I promise you that I will keep a hold of it and use it if need be.

    I’m all set and ready to go, however if I’m perfectly honest with you guy’s where I’m going the forecast is not great when I embark on my journey.

    This does bother me a bit as I have never done anything like this before, if I have to I am willing to cancel if things don’t improve nearer the time.

    And reschedule the trip for either middle of July or August.

    I would appreciate you guy’s feedback on what I should do, should things not improve with the weather.

    Whilst this is about a treasure hunt and an adventure, it’s also about staying as safe as possible not just for myself but for all of us.

    Stay safe guy’s

    Ronnie the Scot

    • Weather…..whatchagonnado.

      I take two one-week backpacking trips in NM and CO every year. I learned years ago that forecasts don’t always materialize, and when I have rescheduled, the weather has sometimes been even worse than the original dates. Frankly, I’ve become more concerned about fire than weather in my destinations over the last few years, and certainly this one.

      I’ve spent several days breaking camp, packing wet gear, hiking 10 miles in non-stop rain, then making camp in rain. I’ve never melted and everything eventually dries out. I get wet each and every morning when I shower and don’t seem to have suffered any severe negative consequences. If you are returning to a hotel room each evening, then just bring extra clothing so that you have something dry while the wet stuff dries out.

      Your two concerns should be (1) lightening strike and (2) slipping while walking climbing on wet rock. You can do some easy internet research about back country lightening safety precautions. Wet surface risk can be reduced by just slowing down.

      The wilderness is undeniably more pleasant on sunny days with azure blue skies, but it has a beauty on wet days too. And not that it makes your visit any better, but if you were to see the hundreds of thousands of acres scorched by fire, one actually develops an appreciation and gratitude for all the rainy grey days.

    • also…what’s your reading material for the long flight over here? May I suggest:

      Nature by Ralph Waldo Emerson
      Walking by Henry David Thoreau
      pretty much anything by John Muir.

      These might give you a greater appreciation for the wilderness and help you find value in your excursion regardless of whether or not you find the TC.

    • Hey Ronnie –

      If the forecast is for showers, no big deal. As a Scot, part of your DNA involves being outside in falling rain. There is something special that happens in the forest during a shower. The tress (particularly Aspens) tinkle like wind chimes in the falling rain. The ground soaks up the water, at the same time the rain drops wash away some dirt from beautiful granite outcropings, exposing the grain of the rock. Don’t let the rain dissuade an adventure. Let it heighten your experience and stimulate your senses. Oh the smell of rain in the mountains is glorious. Rather than re-scheduling to a date that may also call for rain, pack a slicker and a tarp. Make sure your hiking boots/shoes have good tread (I like mine to have big nugs on them like off road tires) so that the damp or soaked ground doesn’t inhibit traction. Always layer, ending with a top layer that is water proof. Above all have fun and be safe!


    • Ronnie, if it is in the Santa Fe area there will be hurricane remnants Tues – Thur there next week. I would avoid it then. Going off trail can be tough enough without getting rain involved.

      • There are multiple forest fires burning thruout the Rocky Mountains right now. All searchers need to be aware of National Forest closures, general road closures, and how to minimize your risks of starting a forest fire before traveling. Properly dispose of cigarette butts and take extre precautions with all flammable items. Familiarize yourself with poisonous plants; exposure to Poison Ivy can ruin your trip. Be bear / lion aware and have a solid plan for potential encounter. Practice your plan. Do NOT use bear spray on a Grizz cub…that will get you in a world of hurt. Sounds stupid, but walk with a plastic bag covering both hands and make a continual rustling noise with the bag. Grizz can’t identify the sound and will leave you alone. They know the sound of bear bells, and have learned hikers will drop a backpack full of food and run. Be safe, be smart.

      • better go with a 4×4 and lots of supplies be wise be careful is the fennboree 2018 canceled?

    • Hey ronie join the facebook group joel lewicki thrill of the chase group great group and helpful

    • Hi Ronnie,

      If flying makes you nervous, check out the “SOAR forum,” run by a former pilot and social worker. It’s so helpful! It also really works to go to a flight tracking site (like flighttracker–there are others, too) and track your own flight in the days leading up to your actual flight. You’ll see there are more than a million people in the air at any given moment, and you’ll become familiar with the route.

      As for the weather… I notice that almost every day thunderstorms are in the forecast for some (or most!) areas of the RMs. That usually means only in the afternoons, though, as the mornings can be clear and lovely, and then by 2-3 in the afternoon, the thunderclouds move in and the rain begins. People say, “mountain weather” to mean that if you don’t like the weather in the RMs, wait a minute, and it will change! I agree with other posters, above: get some rain pants, rain jacket, and waterproof boots and you’re good to go, at least before 3:00 pm! If lightning starts, move to lower ground. Don’t try to walk on anything slick. Avoid getting into or crossing streams and rivers in the northern RMs if you can (running very high now anyway, and higher for the 24 hours after a rain).

      Good luck!

  22. Hello everyone,

    Long-time reader, first time poster here. I first became aware of FF’s treasure about 15 months ago when I read a newspaper article about it. Shortly thereafter, I bought TTOTC and devoured it, reading it twice in the first 2-3 days. I absolutely loved it. I’m the kind of person who loves riddles, and the thought of that opulent cache has had my imagination turning for over a year now. Anyway, I’ve come up with a solve that I absolutely LOVE, and next week I’m finally going BOTG with my father, who is an avid outdoorsman. I sheepishly told him about Indulgence, Forrest Fenn, the poem, and my solve about a month ago, thinking that he would just laugh and wave me off.

    To my great surprise, his next words were, “Well what are we waiting for? Let’s go find it!” We will be spending about a week in my search area, and if we don’t find it, I’m okay with that. Really looking forward to spending time with my dad, as we live in separate states now and it’s been almost 6 months since I’ve seen him. I’m confident that I have the correct search area (although thousands have felt the same way). When I return, I will post my solve for all to see. My solve had certain requirements, and this one checks them all:

    -9 clues followed consecutively
    -a place that would be special to Forrest
    -marrying the clues to a map, and not overcomplicating them
    -connected to several subtle hints in TTOTC that I recognized, including one that knocked my socks off
    -somewhere a 79 year old man could go

    I’ll admit that the very last one is the only one that makes me hesitate, as I believe our hike to Indulgence will be ~2 miles one way. However, as I told my father, Forrest was not your average 79 year old man. Thanks for reading this LONG post, and I look forward to updating you all!

    • RFMS: sounds like a great way to spend the week after Father’s Day! Look forward to your post-trip report. Good luck!

    • Good Luck, and I hope that you and your Father have a GREAT time together. Time spent with your Dad is a treasure in and of itself – JDA

    • Redneck –

      Welcome to the Home of Dal!
      I look forward to reading about the subtle clues that you found in The Thrill of the Chase.

      Good luck with your first search!

      • Thanks Lug, JDA, and Zap.

        Lug, I will gladly lay all my cards on the table after my search, including what I believe are some hints in TTOTC. Of course, there’s always the danger that I just FOUND hints where there were none (confirmation bias) but I don’t believe this to be the case. All of the hints that I found are associated with my search area. More specifically, I believe that they are associated with the last 2 clues. How’s that for tantalizing? Of course, all of this may become moot when I go home 42 pounds heavier in a few days.

        In any case, I only plan on taking one trip to search for Indulgence. Either I find it, or I don’t. Call me stubborn, but I will not change my opinion of the general area where the chest is. I’ve put a lot of work and thought into my solve, with the strict admonition to myself not to overcook it. Look forward to sharing my thoughts with you guys.

        • Redneck,
          One simple question that shouldn’t reveal anything… How do you decide the area your looking in?
          Don’t need to know where… curious of why any area would kick start a thought.

          • Maoli- I will not be in New Mexico or Colorado. At least, those areas are not in my search area.

            Seeker- Throughout my own personal process, I have strictly followed Forrest’s own writings. I have read TTOTC at least 7-8 times, TFTW a couple times (I believe that there are far fewer hints in this book, but I strongly believe that there are some good ones), and I have read all of the Scrapbooks. I have been careful not to fall into message board rabbit holes. There is so much bad information out there that is wrongly attributed to Forrest. As far as where to start, I believe in reading the first stanza of the poem… Over and over again. Think about alternate meanings of the words. Don’t want to say more, as I could give too much away (if my theory is even worth anything).

    • Redneck,
      The age thing I never really consider myself. I know a couple guys in their mid and late seventies that walk 2 miles one way with backpack and rifles for a hunt. Even drag the game back those miles if needed [deer].
      I’m curious as to how you would consider what fenn would consider “special”… Historical? Family related? American Indian related? fishing, flying, war related?… I mean, there are many things fenn enjoyed or was proud of during his life… what would be the indicator that the place is special?

    • Knowledge of one’s own language is very important, almost an obligation, for a citizen.

      But in Chase’s case, it’s worthless without a bit of deductive imagination.

      For example FF said that the chest is not “under” of water, but what prevents it from being “below” the water?

      It’s all a matter of imagination.

      • IMO, the underwater comment basically says the chest is not near ground water that can cover or hit it
        [ruling out both submerged and under.]
        Example a waterfall; Some theories have the chest behind the fall of the water… an area that has been eroded by the waterfall’s falling water. Yet, we also have; you can probably retrieve the chest in any weather [ if you know exactly where it is ], and it won’t be a big job to retrieve it if you can find it.

        Well if weather doesn’t seem to be a problem [at the chest’s hidey spot], I’d doubt the cold of winter ice behind a waterfall would give the chest up easily.
        While many of the ATF don’t help in locating a clue or the chest… they do give food for thought if ya just think. So again, the use of “underwater” seem to cover more than simply saying ‘in’ water, which “under” is also implied as not submerged or in.

        Below is a different meaning. “Below” doesn’t required being covered as “under” implies.
        Sure you can be below the bed sheet, that could be interpret as below the bed itself. While under the sheets implies, on the bed and covered/under by the sheet, line of thinking.

        You really can be below water and be in water… the wording would need more input as… below the ‘surface’ of the water, to actually be below and still underwater. Otherwise you are just ‘in’ water.

        • I snow shoe a lot in the winter. If the chest is in a river or in a creek it would be better to be off to the side of it. The snow and ice get so thick and deep here that if the chest is in fact in water, all I can say is GOOD LUCK finding it in the winter. I am not going to say water is not involved with the correct solution, because I honestly don’t know. I do know that FF said that the chest is not submerged and he said that it was wet. However, he has never written the word “wet”. His words are transcribed. Indulgence may in fact be wet or it may just be whet.

    • Imagination = Time difference! It’s the “KEY” if you don’t believe me?

  23. Thanks for the tip on OnHuntX, will check it out. The All Trails app helped me out tremendously last time I was out. It works very similarly. One can map out their own path and it will act like a gps once leaving cell coverage. It tracks you on the map. It also has all known trails listed. Somehow I did not save my last path but was able to search for the known nearby trail. While off trail I was able to locate the known trail nearby and easily head right for it.

  24. GUY’S,

    Latest article out on Forrest Fenns treasure chest on a gypsy kiss.

    Ronnie the Scot

    • Jeezus do not melt gold nuggets. Especially the ones that came from the TC they will have at least 10 times the value of Gold. Or even the weight of it. The size of some of the nuggets alone bring just 2 to 3 times spot value. Those idiots who are claiming to know what it’s worth have wholesale values in there pea brained heads. The person who finds this thing should sell it to the National Smithsonian. If not at a public world Auction keep it whole.. Mr Fenn ammased this for history value. I mean it’s truly the finders choice me personally would go to the Smithsonian and live in the history books forever. Do not part it out…. do not melt. Preserve Forrest Fenns legacy it’s your part of being part.

    • From the recent post and article just released the reporter asked “Professinal” appraisers the value of item in the Chest… GOOD GRIEF!!!!

      Jeezus do not melt gold nuggets. Especially the ones that came from the TC they will have at least 10 times the value of Gold. Or even the weight of it. The size of some of the nuggets alone bring just 2 to 3 times spot value. Those idiots who are claiming to know what it’s worth have wholesale values in there pea brained heads. The person who finds this thing should sell it to the National Smithsonian. If not at a public world Auction keep it whole.. Mr Fenn ammased this for history value. I mean it’s truly the finders choice me personally would go to the Smithsonian and live in the history books forever. Do not part it out…. do not melt. Preserve Forrest Fenns legacy it’s your part of being part.

      • Total agree. Those two clowns would value a Rembrandt for the used canvas and the frame. Freaks!

      • I would put “everything” at auction, and “no” would say where I found it.

        But I would leave something “valuable” in place for Chase to continue.

        The special things that FF said he put there, for example.

        Then he would sell the FF biography.

        : )

          • Mr Fenn has said he removed the hiding place from his biography for a very specific reason. There is a very historical and private reason he did this. If this area place special hidey place got to the public, Goverment historical trolls that would go and clean this place up with a bristle brush is the reason he doesn’t want it revealed. It is a special place to him and for whatever that reason is should be preserved by the finder, it should absolutely not be revealed. As much as he or yourself would love for it to be. Preserve Mr Fenn’s spot. He does not want it raped or pillaged by anyone but the person who has solved his Chase. Preserve his name and his legacy. And who ever finds this place should offer to when he passes god forbid to rest his ashes there as a tribute to his legacy. I’m sure that is what he would want. God Bless you Mr Forrrest Fenn you have lifted our lives to a higher degree by letting us be part of your life and legacy!!

            Thank you sir!

      • A one ounce Gold Nugget is more rare than a 1carat diamond. Let alone alone a Troy pound hen size nugget!

      • If y’all cast pearls before swine, y’all should still expect swine to act like
        swine. However, I don’t think the finder will be simple-minded enough to seriously consider melting the gold. By the way, how much do y’all think
        the Smithsonian would be willing to pay for the intact set of goodies,
        including the bracelet and still-sealed olive jar with its contents?

        • A light thought, for all…

          Maybe it was better to leave that quiet treasure there.

          Many disappointments would be avoided. The children’s imagination would be eternal.

          The dream would remain alive, the hopes vibrant, and the adventure calling us to live.

          Grace is in desire, in doubt, in every wrong step.

          Our best memories not are of the things we did plan, but of those that caught us by surprise.

          In the laughter of our daughter when we stumbled on the sidewalk. At the party with our parents when it started to rain and everyone ran to not get wet.

          The mud war in the yard.

          When we play jump rope or hide-and-seek with our family.

          The ice cream melting in our children’s hands. From the face of them smeared with chocolate.

          Or the day we ran out of gas going to the beach with our friends, pushing the car.

          Emotion is not at the end of the trail, but in the way, in the search for something that our heart does not want to find; the end of our Chase.

          The end of our particular Chase in our lives may not be as we expected, so it is better to enjoy our life and our family in every silly, every mistake, every laugh, every stumbling block, because it will be what will comfort us when we end of our trail and our good memories are the only thing to take with us.

          Be kind to yourself, make your family happy. It is their smile that will brighten your old age.

          Ah, the treasure chase of the FF? It’s just a good excuse for all of this to work out!


          • Nice post McB. The memories we make along the way are the most important things in life. The memories I’ve made searching with my family will stick with me much more than my solo trips. Search with your families and make memories if you can. Finding the treasure will be nice but the chase is where the adventure is and where most of the memories will be made.

        • * * * * tighterfocus wondered – ” . . . how much do y’all think the Smithsonian would be willing to pay for the intact set of goodies, including the bracelet and still-sealed olive jar with its contents?” * * * *

          The Smithsonian might appreciate the donation, but if you’re looking to score, I wouldn’t even put them on your list of potential competitive bidders.


    • I’d like to see the article, Ronnie. Please point us specifically to it (for example,
      tell us the URL or the date and time, or something helpful. Their website is not
      an easy one to navigate, without more info about what ARTICLE you are talking
      about. Thanks in advance.

    • The best part of the whole interview after having been asked a couple of times…. “I didn’t bury the treasure. If you say that, I’ma shoot you with a dull bullet.”

        • just the same….I think there’ll be plenty of “dull bullets” flying around even after the comment by Fenn.

          • I’m also in the boat that it is hidden not buried, but, f has said it IS buried. Even though he has multiple times said he has not said it, just remember, HE HAS.

      • This is one of those things where I think audio would have been better. It could have just as easily have been that he meant to say “I didn’t [say I buried] the treasure”, like he always has, and it just came out this way. I wouldn’t pin anything on this statement, same as the ones where he said he did bury it.

        • Jeremy,
          More than likely you’re correct… it seemed like a last moment warning to blurt out, ‘I never said buried,’ line of thinking.
          Only I think it’s important to review why it might not be buried. One being, the original intent to take it with him… he couldn’t have buried himself, but could have concealed both himself and the chest.
          Another thought is, fenn has repeated he was thinking down the road, and we know anything outside can be covered by debris over time, hence buried by time.

          Whatever we think about buried vs. hidden, logically hidden covers any process that can occur over time, including being buried or covered. Does that help ‘find’ the chest? Nope, but it would help by understanding the idea of “If you can find the chest it won’t be a big job to retrieve it.” The logical conclusion, in my mind, would be more inline with entombed / stored… giving both hidden and covered/buried to be the same, yet not deliberately covered by the common usage of buried ‘in’ the ground or dirt.

          This conversation is only helpful when a searcher reaches the end of the task… should you believe it’s must be deliberately buried [ dig a hole and cover it back up, idea ] you might miss a more reasonable hidey spot… that is hard to see itself… because that person is fixated on shoveling for the chest.

          This brings up the blaze and what it is and how it works. Is it a pointer, a marker, is it a cover? Could it be something altogether different…? fenn has called it a clue. Has stated; if you can find it the distance to the chest would be obvious.

          Does the blaze [ for lack of a better term ] hold a type of address-?- NEquick25 [ for example ]. NE is simple enough to understand. Quick, as in quickly look down [ feet] may imply pacing. 25 is the obvious distance to the hide. But even that could still mess up a searcher as to; 25. Quick is as in ‘quick time’ can possibly change 25 feet to be a pace of 25 yards.

          The whole point is; Rather than worry about buried or not… it would be better served to think about options… instead of making a decision it can only be the one way we hope it should be.

          LOL but I’m sure some will be carrying metal detectors, pick-axe and and shovels, even home made ground penetrating radar equipment, with a drone to survey a good dig site. Maybe that is why fenn is suggesting the redneck from TX bring his eight kids… someone need to carry all that crap.

          • Seeker,

            You asked: “Does the blaze [ for lack of a better term ] hold a type of address-?”

            I believe that whole sentence is the address if we have the correct understanding of it. (IMO)

            I am curious about your thoughts on FF comment that if you find the blaze the distance to the chest would be obvious.

            Do you think that once at the blaze, the distance to the chest will be obvious because upon looking down you will immediately see the chest, or do you think the distance is obvious only because you understand where to go next?

            It seems like many people seem to be of the opinion, that once you are at the blaze, you are within a few steps or yards of the chest.

          • KK,
            It could be just that simple… blaze / chest done.
            I don’t think so.
            Look at it this way… a blaze is something that stands out by fenn’s definition.Things that stand out, be it a scratched tree, marks on a rock… bring attention to them.
            People are naturally curious, not unlike fenn, and will turn the rock over, look for other types of etching.. even if the don’t know there could be a chest full of gold just below it or near.

            I also don’t think fenn will make it that easy… even if a searcher gets that far… he’s gonna make that searcher work for that prize.
            So I lean toward your second thought.
            If you don’t know what the blaze is for, it won’t be obvious unless you do. But I would think… if you actually can get that far… you should know.

            I mean, if no one will happen upon the chest, it doesn’t seem likely the blaze is a simple log to be rolled or a mark that can be discovered without the poem, and a curious 9 year old starts exploring around it, for the fun of.

            Now add in a previous omitted line of the poem [ take the chest and leave my bones ] The bones themselves need to be hidden just as well as the chest.
            I said it before; imo, “wise and found” means discover. Discover has knowledge of what you have found. Whether that knowledge comes from the poem only or in the field observing, or both… I think something is needed to be know to understand the blaze “as a clue” and not just an ending point.

            Another factor I think about [ in regards to the blaze ] If the movement of the land will have an affect / have an impact on the clues down the road… doesn’t it make sense that the blaze wouldn’t have the same impact?
            The ATF don’t help with the clues references, that I can see… but they shouldn’t be ignored if a searcher does a check and balance of their ‘general solve’ with those ATF in mind.
            Like the Q&A we are talking about.

            If a searcher want to believe that the blaze is the exact location of the chest… fine no problem. But imo, it doesn’t explain the blaze as a “clue”, doesn’t explain hidden [ especially if the bones would have been involved ], doesn’t explain and idea of “distance” possibilities, or why movement can affect the overall out come, by making it harder to find the chest in 3009.

            Then again, my “check list” doesn’t stop at 5 or 6 items of thought either.

          • KK,

            The fifth stanza describes the place around the “blaze”.

            The last stanza tells you what to do.

            As long as you’re in the right place. The right blaze.

            “But tarry scant… ” = “exact” place of chest.


          • What McB said…
            Stanza 5
            Kinda wish he didn’t, but he did. So it’s done and said.

          • Thank you for your thoughts, Seeker.

            I also believe that there is more to it given the remaining stanzas and their directions, which is part of why I asked for your thoughts. I respect that manner in which you are going about your solve, as you seem to question everything.

            I have to disagree with you & McB regarding “But tarry scant” being the exact location of the chest as I have interpreted the lines that follow it a little differently, although I understand why you believe that to be the case. IMO, I believe the 9th clue to be the last sentence in the poem.

            However, if the last clue is indeed in the last sentences, I don’t have a solid understanding or answer for the line “Just take the chest”. I do have an understanding as it pertains to my solve for “and go in peace”. So the “Just take the chest” is really throwing me for a loop in fully solving it for myself, although it isn’t enough to prevent me from putting botg.

            McB, we have discussed ideas on what the blaze is. In my solve, what we talked about is only one portion of my whole solution of the blaze. And is why when FF was asked “Is the blaze a single object?” His response was, “In a word, yes.”

          • Lol, Lug. You hit the nail on the head. Or they hear, but don’t understand. Never sure which one.

            I never worry when people don’t listen. Happens a lot to me. It seems to be one of my super powers as it serves me more than hindering me.

          • KK,

            Oh! good you didn’t listen either… Whhheww..lol

            I only mentioned stanza 5 in regards to McB comment.

            Look at that stanza closely with stanza one in mind. Stanza one implies he had gone already. Stanza 5 seemed to imply he was now going to go again, or back to the hide [ for example, if he ever had another illness ]

            I don’t think that is the case [ even though I have chatted about that possibility, but just chatting about it doesn’t mean I believe it’s true].
            I think stanza 5 still has fenn at the location. His original thought to stay and make it his final resting place.

            So stanza 5 seems to give us the answers…
            He’s going to ‘stay’ yet leave…in the place he went a lone in there to, “I’ve done it”~accomplished…
            The place that is ‘tired and weak’ by description or otherwise… your choice.

            Just whispering, rambling and rumbling…

            Of course some will say that is a clue and the clues stop at take the chest. They could be correct or I’m simply reading the poem differently… I think there is information “between” actual clues fenn counted out when he finished the poem. That’s probably why he didn’t count as he went alone… other information was in with the clues.

            Call them hints, clue, whatever floats anyone boats. That is how I read the poem… without forcin an intro or a filler stanza or an ending legal clause, line of thinking.

          • Stanza 5 is a continuation of stanza 1.

            And in the stanza one speaks as “still” being in place. It is present, not past.

            I have gone – gerund – present. Is a poem. All is allowed.

            IMO of course!

          • Seeker,

            Par for the course, you have given me much to think about.

            You said: “I think there is information “between” actual clues fenn counted out when he finished the poem. That’s probably why he didn’t count as he went alone… other information was in with the clues.”

            That I agree with and understand. It is why I have him in the first stanza in one location, and leaving it behind to travel to the location of the title to the gold. He seems to nod to two different types of treasures, both in the first stanza directly, and throughout other lines in the poem. Although I can’t answer for sure why he leaves one behind, but I think I understand for now.

            I am going to give your thoughts a lot of consideration and see if I can come to an understanding of your thought process regarding the first and 5th stanza. I could have it figured wrong.

            It is so frustrating to not be able to share more in depth. With those who share this passion (or insanity).

            Thanks for your thoughts.

    • Him having a gut feeling that the finder will not come forward does little to sway me away from a Yellowstone solve.

      And what about the quote “I have a way of knowing whether it has been found or not. But the summer is coming on, you know.”

      As if summer has something to do with whether he will find out. He can only know if it is found in winter? Maybe just an odd choice of words.

      • fenn said if he knew the chest was found he would announce it as found [ major media ] comment. That doesn’t say he will tell who when where or how it was done. I’m kinda glad he can still keep a secret if asked to.

        • Seeker-
          “I’m kinda glad he can still keep a secret if asked to.”
          LOL…As far as I can tell he still has not told anyone where the chest is at…
          At least he hasn’t told me and I offered him my string collection in return !!

      • Not nessesarly. But people that hide things tend to have a method that they use to pick there hiding places, based on how someone looking for there stash, would react to the suroundings of the hiding place.

  25. Liked the article very much. Not any “New News” that I could see, but a nice article. JDA

    • What do you plan to do when someone finds the treasure? Are you going to go out and meet them?
      “I am ambivalent about that. I have argued that with myself for a number of years. The fact is, it depends on the individual. I have got a feeling that the person that finds it is not going to tell anybody.”

      – sounds like he never previously met the gut feeling finder (if he knew the finder, he could not answer it this way)
      – who is this gut feeling guy who likes to lurk and remain in the shadows?

      • It’s me. I haven’t yet recovered it because it is timing at this point. I could say a number of things that would set off alarms if you were close… all his books were pre meditated and he meant to write them all from the release of the first one. There is a message there, it also evolves as it goes and has double meanings in each and every line. If you’re waiting for perfect weather it might not be accessible. The location of the chest changes in appearance from early in spring to the end of summer. The person who recovers it will go right to it. If you know of the location beforehand, if not the path will be unclear. Don’t try to recover it in one trip. Etc. Believe me, I think I know I think I know. 🙂 Shared all with ff but not a peep. Sometimes just sending a short email to describe it and tell him thank you is the best type of conversation. Best of luck to all searching this summer, I hope I’ve not given too much away, but I get tired of reading these and never being able to discuss my solve in detail with anyone. It’s lonely.

        • Jake~ ‘I hope I’ve not given too much away, but I get tired of reading these and never being able to discuss my solve in detail with anyone. ‘

          No worries about giving anything away… all I read was what fenn has already said;
          I warned the path would not be direct… certainty of the location beforehand.
          If you can make two trips… don’t go.
          The person…walk right to the treasure.
          The person will smile going to… wear a grin coming back.
          I {fenn} don’t read the long e-mails…

          But I know what you mean… I get tired of reading these too.

          • Thanks Seeker. I often times write up a long paragraph explaining what I’ve found, only to erase it and never share it. I get all of it. Why he is so cryptic about whether it’s buried or not and it’s too much to handle. I feel so confident that I would like to quit my job and go for it. It’s there. And the comment he makes about the location is slick… If you “wear” a smile to the blaze you could “wear” a grin back, maybe (paraphrasing). He’s talking about the path you take, wearing a path in the wilderness, not just a physical smile… IMO. And walk “right” to it… he is talking in directions plain and simple.Think it over… it will be there as long as time has to come, or until we find it. Just another few things to get some talk going about the poem and not everything else that gets talked about anymore these days. 🙂 Best of luck to all!!

        • I was going to say something …I just did not understand what Jake thought he was giving away in this post ??? Cryptic cyber chat…

        • Jake,

          I don’t recal Mr Fenn saying ‘Don’t try and recover it in 1 trip.’Or was this your wording and not paraphrasing a quote?


        • FF has said that he’d smell sage and pine/pinon (or similar). This
          implies that plants exist at or near the hidey place. So yeah, the
          appearance of the area does change seasonally. And there also might be snow on the ground in spring and not in summer at or
          near the hidey place. None of these concepts look like a big deal
          to me. By the way, you ARE able to discuss your solve in detail if you want. All my opinion.

  26. As another side note…Fenn reiterated again…he doesn’t even read the long emails.

    • Dang, he probably skips my brilliant postings as well. Just for that… he ain’t getting the bracelet back.

      • I was speaking of all the folks past and present who speak/have spoken of their detailed solve mails. Redoinkulous !!!

        • ken,

          I can tell you, that he reads more than he lets on. Case in point would be the Yellow Stone Searcher that died while hunting for the treasure.

          Forrest actually notified the Park service that he was concerned about the guy when, he hadn’t received an email from him…

          In my particular case, I have sent simple Google Earth images with exact mark-ups…Forrest has reads my emails.


          • GCG…I do not claim clairvoyance…I just pay attention to Fenn’s comments. I would think Fenn may have had concern for someone that was a tad early going into an area that Fenn later stated he had NEVER been before.
            This could have been a very short email from this person. On another note…I hope you have a great search experience, when you go.

      • We all know Forrest is charming, interesting, even “eccentric,” but “cantankerous” and “ a little ornery”?

        Forrest said don’t ask him how (he’s not gonna tell), but I still can’t figure out how he is sure no one has found it.

  27. I sure wish there was something we could to to hasten the finding of that chest.

  28. FYI TO ALL
    SANDY, would ascertain or
    correct, but I understand as of
    today, the USFS has closed
    for recreational use (hiking, biking, camping, etc)
    the entire San Juan Nat. Forest in
    SW. Colorado.

    • BATTY…Actually, I think the SJNF closure was 2 days ago. It’s been a blur. Everyday new evacuations. Yesterday all surrounding BLM and most of Durango open space trails closed. The dog park is closed! Also the homeless camp was evacuated. I’m driving north currently and all roads and campgrounds are gated closed. Lots of law enforcement out. Heavy penalties for poaching trails. The 4 Corners region is pretty miserable right now with dense smoke, winds, and hot weather. Everyone that can leave has…including me. Pray for rain.

      • Sandy,

        I’m so sorry to hear that you have had to leave. Please stay safe. Sending prayers for relief.

      • When I pray, it’s to the “flying spaghetti monster”. I pray for “cloudy, with
        a chance of meatballs”. IMO.

  29. Going to the boots on the ground this weekend. Wish me luck.
    *highly confident*

  30. I found it interesting how he instantly diverted in that article to talking about books and what he showed the reporter.

      • Yes, but I wonder if he was talking past the reporter, to the searchers he knew would be reading and brought those types of books into the conversation for some reason.

    • I found it humorous.

      Imagine a reporter going to your home with the intention of publishing a story about how she thinks you are a con artist. She arrives completely ignorant of the back story and even says so up front.

      What else can Forrest do but entertain her with random stuff in his study? She’s lucky he didn’t throw her out.

      A good reporter has an open mind, does her homework, and keeps her ignorant opinions to herself.

      I’m not trying to be patronizing, but fair is fair, ignorant opinions are rude, and lazy is inexcusable.

  31. If it’s not found in the next few weeks, I’ll have a chance. Good luck everyone, (sortof). Have nice vacations.

  32. KK, you said “Lol, Lug. You hit the nail on the head. Or they hear, but don’t understand. Never sure which one.”

    Is it that because this is an open forum that people cannot express their ideas fully enough to make others listen and believe them? Just saying a belief about a stanza without fulling explaining doesn’t mean much for most people, especially ones that already have their own ideas. How can another persons ideas trump a persons own ideas without a good explanation?

    I love that we are able to share thoughts and ideas, don’t get me wrong but when someone says something that means something only to them what should we do with that? Of course we cannot share all we know on an open forum. I don’t have any answers really, just rambling.

    • * * * * Aaron wonders “. . . when someone says something that means something only to them what should we do with that?” * * * *

      Yep, Double Enigmas seem to be part of the conversation (and not deliberately placed to aid a searcher).

      At the bar, I just nod knowingly with a quiet smile, and take a slow sip of beer.

      At the blog . . . well, I do the same thing, but can’t nobody tell.


      • The probable truth is that because of the vast number of ideas and search stories, a person could likely talk about the winning solve on any of the blogs…and nobody would know the difference. Just the person that has it and Fenn if he sees it….

        • I believe that one person has, they just didn’t know that they had. They were playing a “hunch”, and didn’t realize how incredibly close they were to Indulgence because they ignored all but a couple of clues. Forrest could confirm or deny (he responded) but he never will. I’ll found out in days if I’m right, or just end up with having pictures from a nice vacation.

      • I use ideas from “everyone” who post here.

        My last complete solution came after a commenting of someone I had never seen here on the blog.

        Do think well:

        60,000 hectares of land can be burned thanks to a miserable phosphor.

        The penicillin was discovered grace to a miserable leaf of moss. (If I am not mistaken)

        An atomic explosion happens thanks to the miserable formula: E = MC².

        The winning solution may come from a miserable idea thrown out here.

        Ideas, don’t informations.

    • Aaron,

      I agree, it is difficult to explain a belief in the context of a forum when a treasure is involved. We all want input, but no one wants to give up too much, myself included, so we speak in “code” to those we think catch our drift. I was sending a message to Lug, Seeker, & McB that I understand the reference, and that someone is indeed, listening.

      I am sure you have seen it occur in the blog world. We often fail to listen to input when it conflicts with our owns thoughts and opinions, or when it comes from people on different wavelengths than we are on. We really just don’t like to listen to the other side as humans. In the case of a treasure hunt, this can be a fatal misstep (IMO), and it occurs a lot. Perhaps this is why the treasure hasn’t been found.

      So I am never sure if people are not listening, or they are not understanding the information that is being conveyed. It isn’t a diss on anyone’s ability to understand or think. Half of what is said in this manner on the blog goes over my head. It’s kind of the nature of an open forum. And all I am stating, is that in the real world & online, I am rarely taken seriously because people either don’t listen to me, or I am misunderstood, and that this works to my benefit, usually.

      So what do we do when we pick up on the joke but don’t get the punchline? I can only answer for myself. But I research online, and I go back and read other posts from that person. Or I ask directly or indirectly.

      Since you asked, I am willing to share my thoughts on why the chase doesn’t end at “Just take the chest”.

      I understand the meaning of the line “your effort will be worth the cold” to be:

      A strong turn distant from the object of search

      Which tells me I have to move away from the blaze to find the chest. Do you remember when you were a child playing a game of seek the object and you would say, “You are getting hot” or “You are getting cold” the closer to or from your playmate moved from the object

      One definition of a blaze is fire, which is “hot”. So we have both hot and cold in the poem. “Your effort will be worth the cold’.

      So to find the chest, move away from the blaze. And this direction comes after “Just take the chest”. So I need to figure out what “Just take the chest” refers to if not the treasure chest. If it is an instruction, not understanding it can throw my whole solve off and it isn’t something I have seen discussed on the blogs much.

      And this is IMO, and within the parameters of my understanding of the poem.

      Happy Hunting

      • KK,
        I kinda like your thoughts of stanza 6… But don’t we need something that might collaborate with “brave and in the wood” for the game of seek, using the idea of the blaze means your hot/close and cold meaning you need to walk away from the blaze to get to the chest.
        You might be looking for “just take the chest” to relate to “In the wood” not the chest itself but the hidey spot where the chest is In.
        Then again, ya might want to have another look at three words in the poem… treasures, chest, trove… and ask why use these three, seemingly, same meanings words in different parts of the poem. They are not needed for any rhyming factor, right?

        Could the idea be, Brave as in [ for lack of a better meaning ] essentially grave-robbing? and Wood, to be the place ‘You go from’ “leave” in peace? undisturbed? And would there be a reason for that request…?
        The bones don’t have to be there for the same premise.

        • Seeker,

          Can you elaborate please on you take about .,Just take the chef’s and ‘ In the wood’? I’m intrigued.

          Thank you.

          • Think about it more, butch. That’s my point of giving my ideas out. I’m not trying to answer other’s questions… I don’t have answers, but I do see connections. One thing to think about is, why the poem has 6 stanzas and most only work from 3 of them… especially when fenn says not to discount words, and ever word was deliberate.

        • Seeker,

          Yep, I have explored the differences in word choice and why…still looking at that. I’m hard headed, so sometimes it takes a while to sink in.

          Groan…. this is the part were I wish I could say more about my thoughts and solve. I understand the “wood” reference that you are referring to. But it goes further- as in “what kind”, which I know sounds a little weird- and I’m not talking about horses. I think that is only part of the meaning/reference for that phrase. I have two others answers that I use in my solution for that clue/hint whatever you call it. It gives me a canasta 🙂

      • Kk, it’s hard to know how many people are listening. Some may be listening and taking notes and not replying, I’m guilty of this myself.

        As for takin the chest and go in peace, have you considered how a human chest might fit in here?

        • Aaron,

          Indeed- true for myself as well.

          I have considered the human chest and or heart, and it is still something I am thinking of. I just can’t make it work at the location I am at now, but I know I’m missing something. It’s like I have all the ingredients for the perfect cake except the baking powder.

          I also saw that a chest can be a woven container (back to Canasta) and a box, coffer, or casket. Ring a round the rosey. 🙂

          • I’m in a similar situation. Missing one ingredient means having nothing but a recipe for a nice vacation. Good luck with your baking powder.

          • Suggest thinking about Chestnut wood. Fine whiskey is aged in barrels for many years. Whiskey is a specific type of warm water, brown in color. The barrel would be a home of a certain type. A sip of said water could be “taken in.” Distance would be “Not far,” but too good to walk away from without taking a second taste. The critical Line 5 starts, “be GIN” if you read it imaginatively. Even “With” can be relate to barrels as wooden “Withies” were used to hold kegs together before steel bands replaced them. This idea, once noticed, is easy to trace throughout the poem. But as for where to go with it, that I leave to you.


          • Iowenger

            I reached a similar conclusion as well. Thanks for your the thoughts on that. 🙂

          • Iowaegr – don’t forget that whiskey is not meant for the meek – hehe – JDA

          • Please look at how “Iowaengr” is spelled by the poster using that handle. Thanks.

          • TF;

            You are correct – my typo – no disrespect intended – Sloppy typing – My bad – JDA

          • Thanks tighterfocus,

            Bad brain hand coordination, and bad eyesight. I should have double checked it. I know it’s frustrating to have a name or handle spelled incorrectly. Should get it right the next time, 🙂

  33. I am heartbroken today. My sister who recently discovered the chase, was on Her first trip to find the chest and her vehicle was broken into. I had loaned her my copy of the thrill of the chase( she could not get her copy in time for BOTG) and it was in a bag that was stolen from her vehicle. I have had my copy for years . I took it everywhere with me. I know it can be replaced, but it still was like a punch in the gut. It was one of my most prized possessions and some thief Will just probably toss it in the dumpster.

    • Veronica,

      That’s awful, I’m sorry your sister had to go through that, and your book was taken. I know my books are my treasures, and all are important to me for different reasons. I can certainly understand why TTOTC is special. I have notes and quotes marked in all my books, including TTOTC. My SO thinks it is sacreligious to do so, but I guess I’m evil like that. Anyways, I understand your devastation. 🙁 And if you had your notes in yours, that’s like pourin salt on a wound.

      • Yes, that’s it exactly! I had notes and scribbles in there over the years that meant something to me. It’s like I lost a friend or my security blanket. What’s funny is the thief didn’t take my brother in laws bag with hunting gear( they found it in a hotel room, every thing accounted for! ) just a small bag with the book in it. I hate thieves!
        Thank you kk. I knew folks on this site would understand.

    • So sorry to hear this news Veronica.

      Don’t know what else to say, anything that comes to mind sounds lame to me.

  34. I went. I came back empty-handed.

    My solve included a short trek across private ranch land (following the poem’s ‘instructions’). When I arrived at my ‘put in below the home of Brown’ I was greeted with a brand new sign that said basically ‘stay out! No exceptions!’.
    Either my solve is dead wrong, or someone is tired of people traipsing through their land to get to the BLM tracts beyond the ranch.

    I’m a lot of things, but I’m not going to be a target for an angry rancher.

    If the chest is where my solve thinks it is, there is alternate access by way of BLM land—-when the snowmelt subsides and the streams are much lower, but going that way doesn’t work as the 9 clues say to go (IMO).

    Back to the drawing board…

    PS-we had a great trip, with perfect weather, but very high water everywhere and the occasional snowdrift on the shady side of the mountain.

    • Glad it was a good trip for you. Hope you have better luck on your return to the drawing board.

      One of my earlier solves had me on or near private property- I never put botg, but I sure thought about it. I have had a few solves, each time I have gone back to the drawing board, I have been glad to do so. Don’t always have to chuck everything, sometimes just refining here and there is enough. Happy Hunting!

  35. Poor little sis let me know this morning . She was so apologetic, like it was her fault or something. I felt so bad that she felt so bad.

  36. I just talked to my sister and she spoke to a gentleman named Andrew at Collected Works Bookstore . She asked them if they had any copies in the store because she wanted to replace mine. She explained what happened about the vehicle break in. He is giving her two signed copies for free. Can you believe that? What awesome people! I am so grateful that there are people like Andrew out there .

    • Yay! That is so awesome. It does the heart good and restores faith in humanity! I know you are still at a loss with the notes, but happy to hear that you at least have replacements for the book, and an extra one for your little sister!

    • Wow! That’s awesome Veronica! God bless Andrew and the Collected Works Bookstore staff. They have always been kind to me and explained to me that Forrest’s books are their number one most stolen item, so they don’t keep them on the shelves anymore but behind the counter.
      Safe travels to your sister and blessings to you too!

    • Collected works!!!! I love that book store! I will return there soon with a bounty.

      • I agree, Travis. Great people there. They didn’t have to replace the stolen book.

    • Wow. What a kind jester. Kudos to Andrew. He was obviously raised in a good and understanding environment. You don’t see a lot of that nowadays. Random acts of kindness that is.

      Enjoy your new book Veronica!


        • I don’t understand McB. Why should Andrew send you a free copy? Why can’t you simply order a copy from Collected Works like the rest of us? Does the Brazilian government prohibit that for some reason?

          Just trying to understand your situation.


          • Pina,

            My country is in a “very” critical moment.

            Any $ 100 is missing. That’s why I did not buy the book.

            But for those who know me on the blog know I was just being humorous.

            It was not a request, I was in the mood for the conversation.

            Sorry me.

          • Open letter to Travis Brown.

            I’m very touched by you.

            Very, very grateful even for your offer.

            You are more proof that I am right, for believing in the goodness of the human being.

            But, I can not accept. It’s not my pride, I just do not think it’s fair.

            I am not going through needs, nor am I a victim of any unforeseen circumstances.

            I just did not want to spend money because of the economic and political situation my country is going through at the moment. We are on the verge of military intervention, which is not good for anyone.

            That’s why I gave up doing BOTG in person. I run the risk of leaving the country and then not being able to return, as happened to other Brazilians in the past.

            Again, I am very, very, very grateful. And I owe you a favor. As long as I can help you, you can count on me.

            Best Regards, Marcelo – McB

      • You certainly don’t see many of these kind of people, but when you do, they shine . Thank you!

    • Less than 680 miles from Mountain Man Museum in Pinedale, WY.? Mr. Fenn, that was quite helpful. 🙂

      Thank you for the link, Dal. I truly enjoyed the story he told in the article.

        • WhyMustIGo- IMO your estimate is pretty close but you and I probably don’t have the same reason for coming up with that estimate.

          • Flutterby;

            You asked a couple of days ago when my next trip was planned – I gave you a round-about answer – I can now say that my team and I will be searching Friday June 22 – One day before the Function at the Junction in West Yellowstone. Hope you are there, would love to meet you – JDA

        • WMIG,

          Amazing area there on 191 – We drove through there on our last trip for the first time – You can actually see the entire Wind River Range in a single view.

          I remember making note of Pinedale because off in the distance on the Wind River Mountain was this phenomenal canyon — visible even from 191. Looked like some place worth a trip someday…


          • My first views of the area were from up near Union Pass. It was awesome 🙂

      • pd;

        If you google “distance from Pinedale, Wy to Santa Fe, NM”- Answer = 690.2 miles – minus 8.5 miles north of Santa Fe = 681,8 Miles. I don’t think that it is much of a hint. JMHO – JDA

        • It certainly isn’t, JDA. The mileage covers the entire search areas, plus some. Mr. Fenn certainly has quite the humor. 🙂

        • The possibility of the given mileage, it may be considered as “borders”.

          This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

          • PD,
            Fenn also said the chest is more than 300 miles w. of Toledo… what borders might he be referring to in that comment? He also said a sandwich and a flash light aren’t clues, But…

            LOL, I’m kinda surprised nobody jumped on the “museum” .. “The Mountain Man Museum”
            My church is in the mountains? Park his car at the Denver museum? I’ me Toledo is almost directly eastward of Pinedale
            They ‘border’ the 42nd parallel … the treasure chest weighs 42 lbs, the word treasures is 42 spaces from the A in As to the Treasure in the poem. A rainbow reflection angle is 42 degrees.

            Holy crap! Ive been at this way to long… shoot me shoot me now!
            Colokid… help! I need some drain-o and quick (Quickly?)

          • Wasn’t ff 42 years old when he moved to Santa Fe or when he opened the gallery? can’t remember.

          • Hello Seeker. The museum caught my attention, but I wanted to think of other things he mentioned. What you’ve mentioned is interesting. As for shooting you, perhaps someone could use the dull bullet as mentioned in the article. (Giggle.) 🙂 This was actually on my mind just before reading your comment.

          • Hello Oz10. In 1972, Mr. and Mrs. Fenn built their gallery. Another forty-two.

          • HA! PD,
            I thought for sure ken would have jumped at that opportunity to shoot me with a dull bullet. LOL

            There are so many 42’s references mentioned over the years by many searcher… they have to be in the dozens by now. Pretty soon we’ll need an automatic for shooting those dull bullets.

          • Seeker…I shot you 42 times with the dull bullet…with a six-shooter. You just didn’t notice…drain-o will do that.

          • Ken,
            That’s the clue….!! your brilliant!
            A six shooter needs reloading seven times to be shot 42 time, and if we take NFBTFTW and divide it by 4[far] from 42 [the weight] we get [rounding down = dull ] 10, Minus the width of a doorway at 36″ [ball of string] which equal the bathtub in Olga’s home, but ‘adjusting’ that to ‘3’ feet and then convert to miles and subtracting from 10 miles, we have “7” miles total for two trips, leaving one trip, one way, where we parked the ponies, at approx 1.7th of a mile and all done by high-noon.

            Maybe I’m over complicating it? it could simply be 6 mile’s = a six shooter.
            lol, that fenn guy is so clever…

            I could be off slightly on my math. I only had two sips of drain-o this morning… I take mine black with two sugars.

          • Yikes buddy….you’re circling the drain. I’ll toss down the end of the ‘Teachers with ropes’ rope.

          • seeker…Ha Ha! The truth is…I just don’t see where the “42” fits with anything at all. Just because Fenn mentions the “end of his rainbow” in TTOTC doesn’t mean he intended for someone to research the attributes of a rainbow…does not seem logical. The info about the chest and contents weighing 42# came much later, after the publishing of TTOTC. So again…does not compute as logical that he would toss around a hint like that, that would point to anything involving to Chase. I have to remember the TTOTC and poem can lead an average person to the treasure before jumping on those types of train wrecks.
            Now…if you want to talk about string, that’s another story. We all can probably “string” that along for a few more years….dull bullet, ha ha.

          • Ha! ken,
            We just fell off the edge… Now we’re talking ‘string theory’ lol.
            Wait!… hmmm… the big picture?! Naaa..

            I highly doubt 42 means anything really, other than the fact fenn wanted the prize to be big and wanted to let folks know what was at stake.

            Now rainbow? That is a horse of a different color.

          • I’m gonna say it right up front…I will not talk about unicorns with ya ! String theory….mayhaps.

          • LOL
            Deal… I’ll add; leave the leprechauns alone as well. Those little guys remind me of ‘Chucky’ anyways.

      • Gang,

        Mr. Fenn says, “Here’s a clue: it’s hidden less than 680 miles of the Mountain Man Museum.”

        And as usual, I’m late to the party. I figured that it was probably the already posted limits of the search area. Love it! 🙂

        Thanx for posting the link Dal. I notice your site was linked in the article – way to go!

        For those going out into the wood this weekend, have a safe and memorable Father’s Day weekend.

    • All right! From the museum in Pinedale, Wy the whole search area is within 680 miles. But if you measure straight line distance on google maps from there to Santa Fe is exactly the same distance from the museum to the most northwestern tip of Montana (540 miles). Mr. Fenn is having a lot of fun at our expense… 🙂

      • Well, give or take. Also, it is about 680 miles from SF to Mammoth Hot Springs. And down the rabbit hole we goooo…

        • That would have to be straight-line miles, NOT road miles – right – Since Mammoth is north of Pinedale? JDA

        • Ha!
          Alice is going to have a lot of company down there, Oz10.
          I heard a rumor that Bruce Willis and Haley Joe Osment are making a movie dedicate to the chase… “I See Dead Clues” I think Stephen King is directing IT.

          • Lol… Darn, now I’m thinking that twist at the end of the movie has something to do with the poem.

    • There was an article with a link to this site and it didn’t bring the site to a virtual halt! Well done Chris and Dal.

      • JW-
        That was a local paper…albeit a good one, but the link to the site didn’t appear to effect blog traffic at all as far as I could tell.

    • I never read about Jeremiah Johnson but I remember the movie. Could this be another Robert Redford reference?

  37. 42= death
    in Japanese 42 pronounced separately — “shi ni” (four two)

    shini means “to die” (42 and the # 4 r both unlucky #s)

    The Green River Rendevous, in Pinedale,
    is set for July 12-15 this year.
    Main activites center around the Museum,
    but there are also Rodeos, a parade, and vendors galore. I kinda doubt this late, insde
    accommodation can be found, but who knows.
    Check out the sublinks on
    pinedaleonline. com for more info &
    event schedules.
    AND, OH YES, the USF&W, some years
    back, did relocate some of the big bears
    into the WINDS, and there has been a few
    unfortunate incidents at lower elevations.

  39. Come on guys, I only been doing this for just over a year and the No42 slapped me in the face ages ago, please tell me you understand it.

    • Butch, I’m sure lots of people understand it and likely everyone understands it differently. Just give us your thoughts.

    • Butch: any 3-headed alien will tell you it’s the ultimate answer to life, the universe, and everything.

      • Ken,

        Sorry to be pedantic but the alien that I spoke to had 4 heads and not 3, he also informed me that the No42 is only for us earth minnions the ideal number that rules our parallel universe is in fact 13.3 , I could get zapped for telling you that!

        • Hey Butch…ken here. The likelihood of aliens existing on Earth, and “42” being relevant in the poem, I believe, are about the same in my book. It is rather amusing how many different numbers can be extracted from anything Chase related…either in TTOTC and/or any of Fenn’s comments subsequently. It has become apparent with the thousands of so-called solves that a person can find just about anything….except the treasure…so far.

          • Perhaps it will take the mind of an extraterrestrial life form to find the treasure, or 42 smart humans working together.

          • Aaron…42 smart humans?….working together? You funny ! I do not believe it is going to be a genius that figures this Chase out and discovers Fenn’s treasure.
            Speaking of “smart”…did you mean smart as in stylish?
            Butch…I also believe that “42” is about as significant as the whole omega/double omega syndrome that has been rampant in the Chase. There have been many omega based “solves” over the years…and you can see how that has worked out too. Don’t get me wrong…I do think “everything” should get a glance or two…but I would not bet the farm on those concepts.

          • What’s really funny is… many see omega symbols and other see horseshoes.
            If I was to play fennster&Gamble’s omega-horseshoes [trademark pending] I would think One Horse and Cattle company would be ‘close’ enough.

          • Yeah….one of the game cards that advances a player above all other players is the “200′(feet AJ) Club” card.
            The ultimate game card in the newest version is the “12′ Club” card. Maybe one of the Chase entrepreneurs will run with the board game concept !

        • Ha! I’m just playing with you guys, although I do know how 42 fits in, Aaron as you mention it does everyone honestly believe that it’s gonna take more than one of us ie, a group to solve the poem, I have to be honest and say rightly or wrongly so that i disagree, we all have our own solves and I think to join arms against the poem does the chase an injustice IMO, there is no doubting that Mr Fenn is sword bending genius however if I am strongly convinced on my solve as many of us are then surely that by the law of averages that it’s only a matter of time before the TC sits nicely in someone’s lap, by all means discuss and chew the fat but a team/group versus the poem…..Nah not for me! What’s everyone’s thoughts?

          • Without a precedent set how can the law of averages come into play? We have had a discussion about this before. Without being able to look to the future and know when the treasure is found or how many searchers going out it took to find it, we have nothing to go on. If 5 treasures were hidden by Fenn and two had been found we could make a better guess. As far as we know right now it could take 1000 years as Fenn suggested.

            One thing we do know is that level of confidence in a solution has nothing to do with results so far.

          • I’m with you Butch – I consider this an individual contest, not a team sport. I do have my search team, and we all have equal rights to present ideas. My job, it to marry these ideas to the poem. So, it is a team effort, but I am the captain of the team. JMO – JDA

          • A group can’t concentrate on any project unless the goal is know beforehand.
            You might think the goal is to find a spot. You might think the goal is to decipher clues etc etc. Those are steps in achieving the goal.
            The very first thing anyone needs to achieve a goal, is a plan. If you have the wrong plan you will have the wrong outcome each and every time.

            So some like the type of plan of stomping place to place. Yet, they don’t have the correct plan to do it.
            Some decipher information, but never have a plan for them.

            IMO… we’re missing the plan.
            fenn might call this the blueprint, or the big picture, important possibility, or anything else related to the idea… but we have been told to plan and observe.
            That is a combination needed, both prior and field work.
            We’re not thinking and analyzing the correct plan… and that has been proven on site, at deciphered the clues, at the location of the chest.

            So, What is your plan?

            End of commentary.

          • Solve the riddle Seeker…that’s THE plan man. Stan says it’s a good plan…so I’m going with it. Spraying darts over the entire search area has done nothing but provide folks with good vacations. I can take a vacation and interact with nature anytime…I want to put Fenn’s bracelet on just for kicks and wear it around for a few/several days or so….I don’t want to be encumbered by “others”. I don’t like meetings either….

          • Seeker;

            Without giving away too much – Here is my “Plan”

            Know my solve
            Know the steps I need to take
            Take the steps in order.
            Go prepared for what I know I will find AND try
            to prepare for those things I do not yet know.
            Find whatever “markers” are out there.
            Do what is necessary to find and retrieve Indulgence.
            Contact Forrest.
            Make sure Indulgence is “Safe”.
            Go to the Function at the Junction
            Return the bracelet to Forrest.
            Figure out what to do next. – JDA

          • It does and has taken teamwork, it just depends on how you see it. We may hunt alone, but anyone participating or lurking on this blog or other blogs, has picked up some knowledge from others. Isn’t that kind of the point of the blogs, as a resource for us to share ideas, thoughts, and knowledge? And those that aren’t on the blogs, surely utilize information compiled by others via the internet, maps, and libraries.

            Just my perspective opinion.

  40. Hey all just wondering who’s gonna show up or be able to at the function at the junction in west yellowstone

    • I’ll be at my own function at the junction starting July 1st, but will miss this one unfortunately. Anyone there the first week of July?

  41. Does anyone have a quote on the weight of the treasure chest itself? I think we all assume it’s around 20 lbs., and I think I’ve even read 22 lbs., but I’m not finding a specific quote. I’m trying to estimate the weight of all the non-gold goodies in the chest: jewels, bracelets, fetishes, autobiography in the olive jar, etc. The gold weighs 16.6 pounds, so if the chest is 22 pounds, then that would mean about 3.4 pounds for the non-gold items.

    • I tried to figure that out at one time. I didn’t find anything useful. He did say more than 20 troy lbs of gold so the number you give for the weight of the gold could be a bit low. Looking at pictures of the bronze chest I would have estimated its weight in the 15-20 lb range, but that’s just a wild guess. Or it’s wishful thinking to allow for my hope that there’s a bottle of really good scotch or brandy making up those extra pounds.

    • Hi JW: “He did say more than 20 troy lbs of gold so the number you give for the weight of the gold could be a bit low.”

      He’s actually consistently said 20.2 troy pounds (EIS radio, New Zealand radio, KOAT interview, On the Road with Charlie, and Richard Eeds Show). Many people don’t know that a troy pound weighs only 0.822858 pounds. So 20.2 troy pounds is 16.62 lbs.

      • Thanks Zap,
        I hadn’t caught the 20.2 number, just more than 20. Troy measurements are so much fun. Troy ounce > avoirdupois ounce but troy pound < avoirdupois pound.

      • Zap, I don’t remember him actually giving that info. I did once try to figure it out, this is a rough, very rough estimate.
        Bronze box, 10″x10″x5″x1/4″ thick = 19.85 lbs
        Gold, 20.2 troy lbs. = 16.6217 lbs
        total = 36.4717 lbs. subtract 42 lbs. = 5.5283 lbs.

        The bronze box measurement being a hollow rectangle 1/4″ thick, (which is not accurate to the chest, but figure it’s close enough), plus, I don’t know if the chest is 1/4″ thick, just a guess.

        • Forgot to add. F stated the chest weighed 22 lbs. So the whole thing being 42 lbs. (Richard Eeds show, 05/29/2015).

          I figure that 5 lbs is a close enough estimate, if you have around three to four, close enough.

          To answer your original question, I don’t, maybe Loco has some info on that, but I don’t remember him giving the actual weight of the chest, sorry…

          • For reference five pounds is like half a bag of taters. Even minus the bracelets, fetishes, and jar that equals a lot of carats. No matter how you slice them!

      • Hey Zap…not sure what the purpose of the exercise is…however…for a guy to say he thought of everything…including double wax sealing an olive jar to prevent moisture damage for the autobio…maybe it is a question to ask? 4 or 5 pounds of gemstones seems rather hefty, no?

        • Ken: It was more a point of curiosity about limitations on what else might be in there. As you say, 5 lbs. sounds like a lot for the gems, olive bottle, autobiography, bracelet, necklace and fetishes. However, I forgot about the pair of 5″ round pre-Columbian gold mirrors — those will account for a good fraction of the shortfall.

          • Weight of paper [bio], magnifying glass, any possible container [ plastic or otherwise ] to hold small nuggets and jewels, if any. The item which she will be happy to see??

            Charlie? in your calculating the chest… the walls. bottom and tom have wood lining… does that change the outcome of your weight?

        • Don’t forget there is two things in the chest we don’t know about they may weight a bit.

          • TWO??? I am only aware of one. “Are there any objects placed in the Bronze Chest that are connected, or have meaning to the place the chest is hidden? ~ Mike
            “No Mike, everything in the chest is straight forward and visual, except my autobiography, which some might find dull. Oops, I forgot, there is ONE thing in the chest that I have not talked about except to say I don’t want to talk about it. It is something saved especially for the person who solves the clues. I think that person will be pleased when she sees it.” f Where do you get two? – JDA

          • JDA, I will try and fine the video or audio but Mr Fenn says something like ‘The person who opens that chest is gonna love the first two things on top’


          • Butch;

            I think I remember that post. My interpretation was one secret item, one known item – I could be wrong. Take care, and TRY and STAY SAFE – JDA

    • McB;

      `What you posted is a joining of two stories. The first is to be found in TFTW – The second story is titled, “The Totem Cafe Caper” from TTOTC.

      Can anyone ever say, “The text has absolutely nothing to do with the poem.”? I think not. I personally see a couple of minor “hints” in each of the two stories – but that is just me – JDA

      • JDA,

        That’s exactly what caught my attention.

        The text would take anyone to different interpretations of the poem.

        And I do not even have the books. I can not imagine what I would do if I had TTOTC.

        But OK. I have a good solution even without the book.

        • McB, you could always buy the book, type it out in English, and then translate. Lots of work though and may give you more rabbit holes than you need.

        • McB-
          In my opinion, the only book that you really need is TTOTC. The other 2 are beautiful and you can tell a lot by the way a person speaks. (Plus, on this blog, Dal has posted many of the stories contained in OUAW.)
          But I do believe that TTOTC has several hints that can help you along,so it is the most important. Happy hunting!

        • Searchers, please,

          In the chapter:

          “The Totem Cafe Caper” from TTOTC

          Are there photos or drawings? Of what?


          • Left side of page – Picture of a small cabin – caption = My one-room cabin in paradise with curtains on the windows but no heat, no water and no plumbing. (Page 46)

            Second picture is of a young Forrest – caption = The paperboy. (Page 46)

            Top of right page (47) with the story below = an illustration of “Forrest” sitting under a tree eating a pie. Tree has one branch. Looks like a rock behind tree.

            Bottom of page 49 is same illustration of Forrest sitting under a tree with pie on his lap – “Boss” is pointing an accusing finger at Forrest. “Boss” is a large man with an apron on.

            Best I can do – JDA

          • I think it’s interesting that he revealed Frosty’s name in the original version (Fred) as well as Grandma’s (Mary), but not in TTOTC. The Fred/Ferd name makes a second appearance in one of the Scrapbooks (also repeated in OUAW).

      • Thanx McB. An early rendering of Fenn’s memoir stories 2-1/2 years before TTotC. I never knew Fenn’s father was also a fishing guide. And it’s cool that he hints about the location one of his favorite fishing spots in “West”.

        • “West” is how people in West Yellowstone used to refer to the town. Just like “Yellowstone Park” is how they referred to YNP.

          • When I played poker at the Buffalo Bar the dealer referred to it as West Vegas 🙂

    • “There must be a moral in there somewhere.”

      dunno about whether or not it has anything to do with the poem….but the woman who was recently gored by a bison probably figures that the beast that impaled her missed the Sunday school class…

    • Interestingly, that link comes up blocked for me because I’m in London right now and it is blocking Europe.

      Did somebody over here cheese off the president again?

    • Mr. Fenn said there are subtle hints in the TOTC book, to help unlock the clues in the poem. That’s it. If we don’t take him at his word, what’s the point of being in the chase?

  42. Yes! Finally!
    Road trip starts tomorrow and I’ll be BOTG soon. If you don’t hear back from me , I have either found the chest or was a Grizz snack.
    I’m really not hoping the latter.
    Take care, everyone!

  43. A while ago, a subject on the blog(s) appeared to be golf. I thought of golf clubs.
    Now, a subject on the blog(s) appears to be dull bullets.
    What’s next, pie serving knives?

    All in my opinion.

  44. Has anyone commented on the fact that there is a statue of Jeremiah johnson near his grave in Cody, Wyoming?

  45. Good Morning All;

    It is 3:00 in the morning, and I just had a TA-DA moment. If I am correct “WOW – Why Didn’t I Think of That”? If I can find, with BotG, what I just figured out, EVERYTHING will fall into place! – It will be better than having a map – I am NOT kidding 🙂 I am SOOOO
    EXCITED!!! – Wish I could say more, but I can’t – until AFTER I find her! – JDA

    • I dreamt last night that WWWH literally is an impossiblity – And, I found out what it really was, but for the life of me I can’t remember the exact place.

    • Keep us up to date jda as now we’re all in anticipation and at the edge of our seats …good luck godspeed.

    • It’s always fun and exciting when that happens JDA. I seem to always have mine while excercising. I’m not sure why, but maybe it’s because I’m focusing on something completely different, freeing up the gray matter to let an idea or concept float to the surface.

      In fact, I had one last month. I was listening to an old album when bam, the name of the group caused one of those newer Ron’s to fire and when I got home I soon found the answer to a Scrapbook that had been bugging me for a long time. Or at least I think I found the answer.

      Anyway and sorry to digress, I’m glad for your discovery. Sure hope the weather cooperates and the big critters too. Have a blast!

      Good luck again………pinatubocharlie

  46. Nice! I hope you’re the one! And to quote a prolific commenter:

    ‘try and stay safe out there”


  47. Thanks all – I am still excited, but will have to put BotG to prove or disprove my idea – Can’t wait – JDA

    • Someone asked me in an email if I was willing to share more – All I will share is that my AH-HA has to do with the line: “But tarry scant with marvel gaze.” That is ALL I am willing to share – Sorry – JDA

      • Awesome JD, I hope you nailed it and can beat the one that gave ff a feeling in his gut. Dave

        • Thanks. I doubt it, but I might have been the one giving him the tummy ache 🙂 Oh – that was gut feeling wasn’t it? – JDA

          • JDA,

            I returned home out on my venture, I could not get access to where I believe the treasure is. From the point of the road wash out it was still 4 miles that I needed to go. I don’t think a 4 wheeler or a atv could cross. Being I am an partial leg amputee it was too far to walk. It was a culvert that was washed out.

            It looks like the road won’t be repaired until later in the fall or the spring next year. The Forest Services web site did not indicate the road closure.

            My wife and I took the opportunity to go site seeing and stayed at various hotels during our trip.

            I guess that our agreement will have to be put on hold for a long while. I hope that I will have better luck next time getting in to the area.

            Do you plan on having another search this year, as it sounds like you may from your new thoughts?


          • DARN CharlieM – Silly culvert anyhow.

            Yes, I will be heading out EARLY next Friday – One day into Summer. I am EXCITED!!! We will have fun even if we do not find Indulgence, but I am hopefull – 🙂

            So, are we even, or do you want to say that I still owe you a bottle of brandy? Up to you. 🙂 JDA

          • JDA,

            The bet is on hold, but the bet is still on. Your next search isn’t included to the bet.


          • CharlieM;

            That is an interesting point of view. You did attempt, and failed – regardless of reason – But, it is only a bottle of Brandy. IF I do find Indulgence this next trip out I will consider us even – If not, the ball is in your court – JDA

  48. Quick question for you JD. Did you create the 16 foot tall Chief Pocatello in ID?

  49. Anyone else find this quoted below interesting from the Sante Fe Reporter Article? I did mainly because I think people tend to rule out locations that might have tourists or lots of people. I think Mr. McGarrity and I think the same about ff’s motives and choosing a high impact tourist location as opposed to an obscure location would be a better marketing move by ff for his legacy and would have a longer lasting impact for the immortality he seeks. This type of location also ties into the fact that ff states ‘lots of people have been within 500 feet’ and maybe why some searchers have been within 200 feet without knowing it.
    “One of them, Michael McGarrity, the Santa Fe author of about a dozen crime novels, consents Fenn is indeed charming and has called him a friend of sorts for 45 years. He says he does not have a doubt that Fenn hid the chest, but he’s skeptical about the underlying purpose of the ordeal. It’s not likely what Fenn claims, that he hid it to get American families “off the couch,” McGarrity says.
    “I don’t buy it and I never have bought it, and I have told Forrest that,” McGarrity tells SFR in an interview. “This has to do with a legacy. This is also about getting attention, but he would deny it and would be miffed. … He loves having people believe he is mysterious, and in some ways, he is.””

    • I am sure that like most of us, when we do something, there are multiple things that motivate our actions. I am SURE that Forrest has a concern for our kids (and us) spending too much time on our couches attending to our “Texting machines.” – He has.

      I am also pretty sure that Forrest wanted to create a puzzle that would baffle many for a LONG, LONG time – He has.

      Maybe a small piece of Forrest wanted to be remembered – Don’t we all? – He WILL be remembered.

      Why question Forrest’s motives? What difference does it make? Does it tarnish the experience? Does it take away from the challenge? YEA for Forrest if he has found a way to be remembered – YEA – YEA – YEA – JDA

    • Hey Dave from KC…I have read that one a few times myself and thought similar things. Folks that have known Fenn for a long time probably have a good “feel” as to his character outside of the Chase, so I do pay attention to this type of outside info. There are many snippets that I have discovered over the years that do not quite align with what we have as general Chase info concerning “who” Fenn is. Nothing earth shattering…but still slightly contrary.

      • Hey Ken, yep, there are two sides to every coin and I am sure there are some aspects of his character that do not align with the idealization of his character created by some searchers. I also think there people that will look to assassinate his character unfairly due to jealously or bitterness about the chase. And I do not know the man personally so I just try to fairly deduce based on what I do know. One thing I know, is that he made a small fortune as an art dealer when he was a self admitted non-lover of art…well that points to him being a smart, hard working business man with a keen sense for marketing, promoting, sales, and story telling…I am sure he sold several pieces of art well above their typical retail value because of these skills/traits. I do not see a reason why these traits of his would have changed. This Chase has been a tremendous success because of ff and his traits. He is uniquely skilled…people tend to have blinders on for the particular traits/skills that do not fit their own biases and idealizations of the man. I do not have these blinders…but I also do not judge him harshly for these traits that I see. I think it is also logical to conclude that legacy is extremely important to him from his writings even though he outwardly has denied that. When you combine his traits/skills from his business life with his strong desire to have a long lasting legacy, you can conclude that this might impact the type of location he chooses to hide the chest. If any searchers location does not account for ‘lots of people’ within 500 feet, I think that solve has a major issue. Dave

    • Hi Dave,

      I did find that to be an interesting, odd quote. I agree that we should not necessarily rule out areas that have high traffic or are tourist attractions as within those areas, there are still places that can be isolated and secluded.

      I am still of the opinion that the spot FF hid his treasure in is indeed one that is special to him for a myriad of reasons we are likely never to know or understand, and has little to do with creating or driving tourist traffic, although that appears to be a positive side effect of the chase. I think that’s good. 🙂

      Just my opinion.

      • Hi kk, I tend to agree that the overall location (starting at WWWH) is special to ff for a myriad of reasons important to him. However, the poem has several locations all leading to a final hiding spot location. The final hiding spot has had ‘lots of people within 500 feet’. If that is true, then searchers need to account for that…and possibly look at how they define what might be ‘special’ for a reason important to ff. I happen to believe the 200 and 500 foot hints are some of the most important ATF hints he has provided. So I am biased and that has probably impacted my logic. If the 200 foot and 500 foot ATF hints are less important red herrings then my logic might be severely flawed. Dave

        • many overlook the importance of this ATF….”many good solves are lost to poor execution”
          finding indulgence is more complex than where it lies.
          hint: if you arent doing everything forrest suggests in most important info for whatever reason, reconsider

        • Hi Dave,

          Remember Mr Fenn is the wizard of words so I would take the 500/200ft with a pinch of salt, if he has hidden it just off a trail in a beautiful spot also next to a road then ‘Lots of people’ could in fact mean 1000’s since he made that statement, To ‘pass’ doesn’t mean on a trail, it could easily be in a car driving by, and that’s how he knows IMO.

          • Hi Butch, yes, very true. The 500 foot comment definitely does not necessarily me a popular tourist location. As long as a solve can account for it somehow (i.e. road, trail, rafting on a river, etc.) then I think that is fine. I guess I would just caution against those who rule out popular tourist locations…I know some have ruled these types of places out and I would hate for someone to miss the treasure because they do not think ff would choose such a place. I definitely could see ff choosing such a place because it would exponentially increase the amount of media coverage, discussion amongst those that had visited that location, and that particular location would be sure to memorialize/capitalize on this massively…and ff would love it. Dave

          • Hi CharlieM

            Yes I agree also and I knew Mr Fenn said this, I was just giving an example be it by car, walking or waterways that although by saying this and Fenn may be giving the impression that it is a popular area used by many, that in fact because of his word bending skills it could be a extremely quite area off the beaten track but close to a road, the TC has been hidden for 8 years that we know maybe longer and for a ‘Few’ people to have got closed within 500/200 in that time don’t believe it can be in a popular area but simply a pass by area that has no public interest at all and somewhere he could of rested in peace undiscovered for hundreds of years, what’s your thoughts?

          • Butch,

            I believe the area isn’t visited much by people and searchers.
            The area is IMO off the beaten path and there is no trail near by the TC. Searchers being with in 200 feet is really a good deal of distance by foot. If you have been at a firing range you would know 200′ or 66.66 yards on a foot ball field is a good distance, just as a comparison.


        • Dave;

          “Lots” is a relative term. “Lots” is more than a few – but how many? Good question. IF my spot is correct, quite a few people will have been within 500′ – in passing. A fair amount, less than many, more than a few, will have been within 200′, and not known it – even if they were searchers.

          IF searchers were in this general area, I can easily see that they became “distracted” by something in the area.

          Will it be where I suspect it is? I can hope can’t I? – JDA

          • Hi JD, I think if you can account for the 200 feet and 500 feet than that is fine. I did not mean to imply that the location needs to be a popular tourist location. My post was mainly directed as a caution against those who would rule out popular tourist destinations and for anyone that does not factor in the 200 and 500 foot ATF hints. To me those hints must be factored in and it sounds like you have. I do NOT think that it is MORE likely in a tourist spot…I just have seen some people rule those types of spots out recently so just wanted to present the case for it possibly being in a popular tourist spot. Right now, I am starting from scratch and I do not even have what I consider is a strong first clue…as I research, I will look at both obscure locations and popular tourist locations and try to let the poem, the book, and the ATFs take me to the right place regardless of whether it is a tourist location. Dave

          • Good luck to you Dave. Keep in mind that the Chase is FUN. You bring up a couple of good points – that we all should consider in determining a “good” area or not. JDA

          • Yes I agree JDA, some good points made Dave, God luck and stay safe, what state are you off too? A

          • JDA

            A penny for your dreams until you go on your search my friend, that’s of course if you manage to get any sleep! 🙂

          • I have no good reason to believe that more than a dozen living people have been within 200 feet of the TC since it was hidden the latest time by FF in the Rocky Mountains.
            All my opinion.

          • I highly doubt he would go to die in a highly travelled tourist area as he would be discovered too easily. A 10 inch chest is one thing, a full grown man is another. In TToTC he also seems to show disdain that his favorite childhood fishing destinations are now overrun by tourists. I suspect he has a favorite fishing hole away from it all, like the one pictured in the book.

        • Hi Eric,
          Sorry, but ff is no dummy. IMO he knew the Chase would create tourism and that his ‘special’ place would become a tourist destination once the chest was retrieved and the spot becomes public. The magnitude of tourism might depend on whether he chooses an existing tourist location or someplace obscure. Either way, the hidey spot location will turn into a tourist location and he knows it and I do not think he minds tourism if it is related to his legacy. If tourism bothered him that much why would he ever create a Chase that would send massive amounts of tourists into the Rockies? You might have an idealization of ff that is resulting in biased thinking. Its okay, we all do have our biases. I noted in another post on this thread how a ‘gate keeper’ of some sort would likely need to exist in the scenario that it is hidden 500 feet from a popular tourist location. Dave

          • From the little that I knew FF, he did not hide the treasure in the “exact” place where he would commit suicide.

            He got well and that spoiled the plans.

            So I guess he chose a place “very close” to what he had in mind previously.

            It was the same place. It just is not in the same specific point.

            In this way the proximity to people would be explained.

            Another way to see the situation is that the hiding place is not easily accessible.

            Or maybe the hideout does not draw so much attention that people try to get closer than necessary.

            In other words, only the person who “knows exactly” what they are looking for will approach the chest’s hiding place.


          • McB;

            Go to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXupxL4ovmY (17:40)
            (11/12/13 – Moby Dickens Bookstore event) says:

            “That treasure chest, I’ve said, is in a very special place to me, and if I get another disease, on my last dying gasp, I’m going to throw myself on top of that treasure chest, and then I am going to dare you to find it.” f

            Here is another:
            ” “I recovered after planning my future up to one detail short of the final bier. I had even plotted to have my bones rest forever, in silent repose, beside the treasure chest. If I had to go I wanted to do it on my own terms as my father had done two years earlier, with no hospital bed to offer a temporary postponement. It was important to me that I dared to be myself. Today I live my life with renewed meaning, but always with the awareness that some insidious strain might sneak into my body. I hope my age has pushed me far enough ahead so as to discourage even a most persistent chase.” f

            Seems to be the same spot to me – JDA

        • I thought that, too, but now think the chest has an instruction in it for the finder to tie something around a pole or something like that that is in view of the webcam. Otherwise, ff would have to watch the webcam constantly.

          • I think that once the first eight clues are solved, then that sort of speculation has any sort of worth for you.

            You may be correct, but I think it would be less easy for Forrest to keep his secret if there is a webcam with an IP address aimed at the treasure.

            Today I was walking along Oxford Street in London. Half the people on the super-busy pavement were looking at their dumbphones instead of looking where they were walking. Most of them had no idea how the thing works or who might be tracking them, and they didn’t care. Thinking and being aware of the moment is not something that IP connected devices encourage.

    • I also have the same thoughts about why the place is being frequented by alot of people. After all it is the “big picture!” FF’s memoir TTOTC is a flash back at his life and his Thrill of the Chase… and that is exactly the end point and the begining of the finders memoir where the treasure chest is located. The finders totc is a visual site that embellishes history from a billion years ago to the making of this moment that in turn will be history again. It’s your path taken – the Blaze! IMO The “X” probably will have a plaque sign with the history of FF. Is that not what he really wants? Otherwise, why? I said this before somewhere, at least suggestive of this idea. And that will be “why didn’t I think of this before!” It’s really all about the Thrill of the Chase! Maybe the finders name will engraved on the marker also. Those 200/500 ft’s will become millions! All for the tourism industry. Fenn does give back. It will be worth it!

  50. re-send

    Open letter to Travis Brown.

    I’m very touched by you.

    Very, very grateful even for your offer.

    You are more proof that I am right, for believing in the goodness of the human being.

    But, I can not accept. It’s not my pride, I just do not think it’s fair.

    I am not going through needs, nor am I a victim of any unforeseen circumstances.

    I just did not want to spend money because of the economic and political situation my country is going through at the moment. We are on the verge of military intervention, which is not good for anyone.

    That’s why I gave up doing BOTG in person. I run the risk of leaving the country and then not being able to return, as happened to other Brazilians in the past.

    Again, I am very, very, very grateful. And I owe you a favor. As long as I can help you, you can count on me.

    Best Regards, Marcelo – McB

    • I still have the offer extended. It’s a friendly gesture. You have contributed to us and others it’s the least I can do. If you change your mind you know how to reach me.


  51. Hi Dave,

    Yes this is true, and if I’m honest I didn’t even think about rafting and beside waterways as being within 500/200ft, however I do believe that when Mr Fenn ‘Falls on his chest’ that it is indeed a quite meadow and for that reason also believe that he won’t want everyone to have access to it if anyone at all, let’s remember that because we love Mr Fenn and his wizardry there are also the haters and the downbeats that dislike him through their own frustration of not being able to solve the poem, and would possibly ruin or deface this area, so when Mr Fenn says he hope it is not found for a thousand years I take that that when he passes he would want you to ‘Take the chest and leave his bones’ in ‘Peace’………….so for that reason I believe that it is t in a high traffic area but is close to a access road that people have to pass or indeed as you stated a riverway of some sort given the amount of ‘water’ clues/hints in the poem IMO…..what’s your thoughts?

    • Less than 1000 yards from an asphalt road.

      Within 100 yards of some river.

      Less than 200 feet from a trail.

      Over 100 feet tall.

      In a space of less than 12 square feet.

      Inaccessible to a child of 3 years.

      Exposed above the ground, in the sun, in the rain and in the “wind”.

      Covered only by dust or vegetation. In the wood. (which is not the whole tree)

      Only IMO

    • Hi Butch, well, if it is in a popular tourist location, my assumption would then be that there is something that serves as a ‘gate keeper’ for the hiding spot. The gate keeper could be some sort of high walled creek passage that requires getting into the creek and that might keep the tourists from stumbling upon it…or it could be a spot near a popular tourist location that requires a different route to get to the spot from where the tourists are accessing the spot (i.e. the hiding spot is at a different elevation (200-500 feet below or above) requiring the searcher to take a different route to access the location from where the tourists are located. If there was a proper gate keeper at the tourist location, ff might have his bones undisturbed despite being so close to a popular spot. The one thing we know is lots of people get within 500 feet. I think the real debate is around ff’s motivations…I see some motivations there that would point towards him possibly choosing a location that would generate the most buzz…he does not like to admit this…and neither do many searchers…and I am not certain…but I do not think the searchers who believe it is in some obscure location should be certain either. So I am mainly just cautioning against ruling out these types of popular places. Dave

      • I don’t think it’s “Lots” of people getting with-in 500. I could be wrong but I’m not of knowledge that there’s a FF quote that says “LOTS”

        • Hi James, sorry but you are incorrect. From the “Lure” Q&A on 18May2017:
          Q: how do you know searchers have been within 200 feet of the treasure?
          FF: “Well because people have told me exactly where they were. And that’s the only reason I know. That 200 feet is pretty accurate. But there weren’t too many within two hund….lots of people within 500 feet of the treasure.”

          There is more to that quote above James, but I think you can find it yourself…and you should. Dave

          • It all depends on what James meant, not only “Lots,” but “people” as well… in regards to the conversation of tourist.

            As the AFT you posted, Dave, shows… People is intended as; searchers. fenn has used other terms related to people as searchers in other ATF. But some bloggers want those words/terms, such as; Some, Others, People etc to mean tourist because it would fit there ‘general solve’… instead of asking the simple question of why fenn would want to leave his decaying body to nature, only to be easily discovered by many tourist who could happen upon it and possibly the chest.

            LOL, I mean.. can you imagine the headline news? Man’s body/bones found at tourist attraction is now known to be that of FF, who hid a treasure worth millions in the mountain… even if all that was found was his body… the place would be ransacked beyond imagination.

            Another comment is ; “People have figured the first couple of clues and unfortunately walked passed the treasure chest”

            Tourist are not attempting to “figure” the first couple of clues or and clues… tourist do’t e0mail fenn or talk to him about clues… they’re just tourist.
            If that/my “thought” kills a ‘general solve’ Well, ya might want to think about that solution a tad more. But don’t take my word for it… let common sense lead you, not me.

            If I was to stand at fenn’s hidey spot… I wonder how many people I would see in the mountains, with the animals all around, and, could I even smell the pines needles with campfires burning and barbecues cooking for a picnic?

          • Speaking of BBQ…I’m getting ready to fire up the grills. Cyber invite to all wishing to partake in the best BBQ on-line ! Tasty megabytes for all…and all the java you can handle. HFDay eberybody…!

  52. JDA, …Could the “distraction” to the special place be the “gate keeper”, or a major physical barrier that obstructs a direct path to it. Maybe, the place can be seen but one has to go circuitous ways that increase the walking distance. Or it can be exposed but is either too high [or too low] for a direct approach to it. Don’t know how the 200/500 ATF factors into this scenario. Let us know soon.

    Having a tummy ache thinking about this.

    Anyway, please leave something like “FF and JDA were here” sign for next slow poke searcher(s) to have the satisfaction of also solving the poem.

    Good luck to you next week.

    • IF I find Indulgence, I will be leaving behind a Child’s Lunck Pail. Inside will be a log book for searchers to sign, and leave whatever comments they feel appropriate. Also, a request to leave the site EXACTLY as it was when they found it. Also, a request that they email me and let me know that they found it – With proof, it may be worth their effort. Remember that is “IF” I find it. – JDA

      • You’ll have to leave that in place of the 2nd place pinewood derby trophy I leave in its place JDA 😉

        • I guess that the race is on. Hope you have fast running shoes on – 🙂 Seems like you have a penchant for “Second Place” items Eric – Just ribbin’ ya’ JDA

  53. I finished studying the “whole” poem. Every word, every stanza.


    The first time I read the poem I said that the chest was hidden on top of a box of water. My mother is witness this.

    But I had only read the poem and nothing else. I did not have the ATF, magazine article, blogs, anything … just the poem that was posted on facebook.

    It was pretty obvious to me. I had not studied anything, no translations. It was just the Google translation, which is pretty bad.

    I did don’t know “absoluctly” anythings.

    Oh really?

    After all this time studying the poem, translating every word, every ATF, FF texts, exchanging ideas with you, researchers, many hours frying my neurons and bothering others here, I came to a surprising conclusion:

    The chest “really” is on top of a box of water. In sight of all.

    I hope I’m right.

    Otherwise, I will not eat just a crow, I will eat a vulture.

    IMO – Without the chest, “still.”

  54. If I were to ask FF a question about where the treasure rests, I would like to ask what colors are in the area.

    When Rudyard Kipling visited Yellowstone in 1889, he wrote in his journals that he encountered “The Wonderland” one has only read about in books. On gazing at the splendor of the falls at the Yellowstone’s Grand Canyon, Kipling, recounted his awe:
    “All I can say is without warning or preparation, I looked into a gulf 1,700 feet deep with eagles and fish hawks circling far below. The sides of that gulf were one wild welter of color—crimson, emerald, cobalt, ochre, amber, honey splashed with port wine, snow white, vermillion, lemon, and silver gray in wide washes. So far below that no sound of its strife could reach us. Now I know what it is to sit enthroned amid the clouds of sunset.”

  55. Somebody once posted here that most of the searchers are looking in the wrong state. I still don’t think it’s possible to know that but I understand their thinking. If an equal number were searching in each state then 75% would be wrong. In 2016 Fenn said: “..but my guess is between 40 and 50,000 (searchers this summer), most in New Mexico and least in Colorado.”
    Fact is, since a lot of us are reluctant to share our favorite search state and some folks switch states or search multiple states we will most likely never know for sure.

    • Maybe they meant state of mind. According to ff, any search, especially with family/kids, in the wilderness, is good, so ‘wrong’ becomes a subjective term.

  56. Happy Father’s Day to all those dads and granddads who are in the search.

      • I would also like to extend well wishes to the many Dads and Grandads out there in FennLand.

        I was treated to 5 sessions at a go-cart racing track yesterday and had a blast with my son. We did the same thing last year. So much fun. But boy was my right shoulder sore last night. Better this morning.

        The family then topped off the day with a wonderful BBQ flank steak using a marinade recipe that’s been in the family since I was a boy. Mashed taters too of course and a nice ale to wash it all down.

        Again Happy Father’s Day all, and especially to Forrest.


        • Sounds like a fun, fun day – YEA for you. Doing things with family is what it is all about – Happy Father’s day to you and Forrest as well – JDA

  57. Happy Father’s Day to all you guys.
    Last spring I had the pleasure of taking my Dad and Mom on one of my “searches/vacations” and we had a blast.
    Great memories.

    Clearly Clueless

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