An Aussie Gives it a Go……

SUBMITTED JUNE 2018
by JIM

 

On June 6th this year I made my first BOTG search, and I was surprised at what I found at my final destination. Similar to another searcher who recently posted their story, I travelled to Montana from Australia, specifically the city of Newcastle in New South Wales. You have to be very committed and confident to sign up for 30 hours of travel and a few thousand dollars in costs but my research was solid, ticked many boxes and was unique so I thought it warranted a try.

I highly doubt I will be coming back so I hope that some of my ideas may help someone else out in their search… here goes…

Like many searchers before me my WWWH began as the Boiling River, or Mammoth Hot Springs and later La Duke Hot springs. Other searchers have made many connections with Rooster Cogburn, the Sherriff, Marion Morrison from scrapbooks and interviews. The line of the poem “So hear me all and listen good” could be a hint at John Wayne’s quote “Listen up and listen good”. I haven’t read any further references to link that “Duke” is a nickname for John Wayne.

La Duke Hot Springs is just up the road from Gardiner and there used to be a large hotel and baths on the site utilizing the warm waters for travellers coming to visit Yellowstone or workers at the coal mines in Aldridge. You could consider a hotel a stop or a halt. There was also a train stop here, also called a halt.

Here’s the thing though, I don’t think WWWH is any of these. I used these locations to direct me to my HOB and blaze, but my logic took me down a different path for WWWH. I had found a map of every hot spring in the USA. They do not halt at the Yellowstone caldera, they go all the way up through Canada. In my opinion WWWH is not a hot spring. Forrest has stated that several people have solved the first two clues without realising their significance. Several. However 1000’s of people use a hot spring or Madison River confluence or the New Mexico fishing regulations as their WWWH, not several. So the correct answer must be something more obscure. I was sure that my blaze was correct though and so I considered the most obvious nearby canyon and looked at what was at the start of that canyon to see if it could relate to Warm Waters.

So I typed into google Warm Waters Jardine. And this was the first result. Warm Waters by Charles Lloyd. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warm_Waters 

I freaked out, because on the very first day I started researching the chase this information crossed my path. I had tried finding lyrics and buying the album but it didn’t seem to be significant or connected to the treasure. However why when I added Jardine to warm waters did this album pop up again? Well, Al Jardine from The Beach Boys sang on the first song and on the Wikipedia page his name is in the first paragraph. Previously Forrest has said that a detailed map and good knowledge of geography will help find the treasure and I think this fits. If you know that there is a small town called Jardine near Yellowstone you might notice that name Al Jardine. The album was recorded in Malibu and Forrest’s plane was a Piper Malibu…. this is most likely nothing but an interesting connection none the less. I am not sure how “halt” fits in. Perhaps the name Al is in the word halt? Perhaps it is “warm waters salt” referencing the Beach Boys. I couldn’t find the lyrics to the song Warm Waters, maybe it is something to do with the last word, words or line.

Here is another important concept that helps explain why WWWH is so important. When Mr Fenn started this chase he knew exactly where he wanted to die and hide the chest. It seems to me all of the clues are reverse engineered, i.e. he wrote the last clue first and worked backwards to the starting point. Since he has stated the WWWH is the first clue, it would make sense this is the last clue he wrote. This means it would also be the hardest and vaguest because he could get more specific as the clues progress in the poem.

So let’s now really give my answers for the clues and hints – 

Yes, Forrest went alone to hide his treasure. 

A weir is a name for a low dam on a river and I think his secret weir is a spot on the Yellowstone River that has two slight dams that at different river heights trap trout in pools that allow for awesome fishing.

WWWH is Jardine for reasons already detailed. Start there and go down the canyon. It is about 3 miles until you get to a small put in overlooking the canyon and Joe Browns mining claim and house. Joe Brown lived in Cooke City and Gardiner but also lived on his claim.

From there head to Bear Creek/Bear Gulch, you can’t be meek trekking in a place with bears, you must be brave. Possible reference to Joe Meek but meek isn’t capitalised in the poem, so perhaps just a subtle hint.

Look to the nigh side of the creek and nigh side of the river. This is the left side when looking down stream.

No paddle up the creek, you are going down Bear Creek, not up and you will be walking.

There was heavy lode mining done here, look at the high water mark. And this is what you will see.

When Mr Fenn was 16, Forrest and Donnie went looking for Lewis and Clark on horseback and Forrest’s horse’s name was Lightning. Here is a picture from The Thrill of the Chase, as you can see Lightning’s blaze is a perfect match to the marking on the mountainside.

Look down and to the nigh side of the Yellowstone River from where the blaze is and you will see the tarry scant. A “scant” is a masonry term for a large rock cut down vertically on both sides to the bedrock.

There have been quite a few searchers that have mentioned this general area and the blaze but none went to the other side. This makes sense of Forrest’s comments that people have been within 200 and 500 feet of the treasure, they simply haven’t crossed the river.

Most people go searching for the chest in June and July during summer vacations, but this is when the Yellowstone River is running very high from the snow melt and getting across is very hard. However if you are at this spot in September the river is low and there is an easy way across. Forrest having grown up around this area would know this.

For my journey I chose a different route. Jeff Murphy’s path took him to Turkey Pen Peake, and I saw that if I followed the same trail I could reach my destination without crossing the river. This confused me because I had always believed the chest would not be on BLM, NPS, Indian, federal or private land. It made more sense to be public land due to the legalities of finding lost/abandoned property. The trail starts in Yellowstone National Park so I found a map of the park to check the borders.  

And this is what I found. The scant is this tiny piece of land just outside of the park. Only this little area is outside, and it is only noticeably outside if you zoom in closely. This fishing spot/treasure spot/ grave spot is the perfect place outside the laws reach for Forrest to be able to fish without the NPS rules and for the treasure to be left and recovered. (The green area is NPS land, the lighter area is Public land)

As for Forrest leaving the treasure, back in 2009/2010 when he hid the chest, you used to be able to walk about 3 miles from Gardiner around the cliffs on another trail. This has since been closed due to land owners complaining about trespassers (probably searchers to be honest). I believe Forrest walked this route and crossed the river late August/ early September.

Lastly I think the twin Omegas are a hint at the Roosevelt Arch at the north entrance of the park. You can look at the gate as both one enormous omega, but also the smaller doors on each side also look like omegas.

So I arrived at my parking spot around 8am on Wednesday the 6th June and started my 3 mile hike. It was a beautiful day and straight away I saw some Pronghorn a little way off the trail.

It was definitely weird being alone in totally foreign wilderness with no gun, only bear spray and plenty of wildlife around. The noticeboard at the trailhead had mentioned a bear had been sighted in the area a couple of weeks earlier and this was confirmed by these tracks I found only a few hundred feet along the trail.

I kept hiking, talking to myself to make noise and before long turned the corner around the hill to catch the first sight of the blaze.

The hike to the spot only took around 30 minutes and upon arrival the river was in full roar. 

This is exactly where I thought Forrest had hidden the treasure. You can see a large boulder that appears to have an alcove or space behind it that could hide the chest and keep it out of direct view of people and google earth.

The actual area is an awesome secluded spot, off the trail, plenty of animal bones and fresh scent around. You could easily imagine setting up camp here and fishing for days, away from the crowds, and the law. I carefully descended to the ledge and large boulder I believed the chest to be hidden behind and this is what I found.

I searched in and around this pile to no avail. Those big rocks are about the size of an office desk, not easily moved. There were a lot of spider webs around, and potentially rattlesnakes so I didn’t really want to stick my hand inside too much.

It didn’t make sense. I had checked multiple satellite imagery sites and all of them had the boulder vertical and intact. I know that google earth is only updated every now and then (over my house is about 5 years old) however the cliff face was old and weathered, and didn’t look like there was a freshly exposed area to suggest that the cliff had partially collapsed.

It almost looks like the boulder had been recently destroyed/broken/exploded by human intervention.

I searched all around the ledges, on the scant, around the water’s edge but found nothing.

Now we have all heard many times people saying the treasure has been found. In my opinion this is the correct spot that Forrest left the chest. Maybe I am simply gifting the chest to someone else who will travel here in the future because it is still there and I just couldn’t find it. I didn’t take a metal detector with me and couldn’t check the rock pile thoroughly. It could also be that someone found the chest and in the process broke the large boulder. It was heart breaking to walk away, but it was awesome fun searching. 

On the way back I nearly stepped on a young Bull Snake or Rattlesnake, had a small herd of Pronghorn sniff me up and down and saw a grizzly about 500 metres (1/4 mile) away scratching on a tree. I have video of him but not a very clear photo, I didn’t really want to hang around.

So many memories, cool people met, great local beers consumed and no regrets. Hope you enjoy reading my story as much as I did living it.

Jim

66 thoughts on “An Aussie Gives it a Go……

  1. Nice write up but I believe in my opinion that the one significant thing that no one has mentioned as to the winning solve is that two people can keep a secret if one of the them is dead. I’ve found that precise location and even have been there but for unforeseen circumstances I’ll have to return there to search later…oh and also in my opinion the place to begin is my secret where and also wwwh.

    • Soren;

      On the last page of a book, an author usually puts a single “Omega” sign indicating “The End.” Forrest has placed two Omega signs – side-by-side – which is unusual – “The end of the end?” – These are the “Double Omega’s” – Hope this helps – JDA

      • JDA,

        I have a couple theories on the double omegas. The first is that I believe that the double omegas are meant as a kind of nod or “love letter” to Peggy. My other theory is one that I’m not willing to share yet, as I believe that it may have something to do with where the chest is hidden. A kind of subtle hint. I may be overcooking that one though.

        • Forrest has said that the reason for the Double Omega’s will go to the grave with him, but I too thiMk (close to thiNking but not quite) I know what they signify also – And my ThiMking is similar to your #2 – JDA

          • JDA, I have the feeling that we thiMk similarly. Without saying anything else, did you get your double omega theory from TTOTC? I did.

  2. Umm, err, hmm… I was thinking.. um, well, what I want to say… err, what I mean is… hmm… Ah heck, I’ll just keep it short.
    Sounds like you had a great vacation, Jim. Ya’ll come back now! ya’ hear.

  3. Jim,

    Nice story and I’m glad you had a good time. I don’t agree with your search area, but it’s good to see people thinking outside the box. I do believe that in general terms, you are in the correct area, but some miles away from Indulgence. Maybe you should give it another go and tweak your WWWH? In any case, you have memories that will last a lifetime. What a great treasure to have gained.

    -Redneck

  4. The mountain behind Lightning is not in very close Proximity to Yellowstone River! I was standing exactly at that spot and took the same photo!
    Anyway… good solid thinking and it looks like you had a great time! Thanks for sharing!!!

    • Hi TLo, the mountain in the Lightning photo is not the significant piece of information. It is the blaze on Lightning’s forehead. 🙂

      • Jim: yeah sure! For us this used to be the big picture… and the blaze on Lightning looks like an arrow pointing to the floor so we wanted to search there once… but the hike was so tough and long we soon knew that the picture itself would be that day‘s treasure… and it was! 🙂

        • TLo – Trail 207 from the Forest Service Campground to the base of that mountain in the background is only 3.5 miles. And the mountain itself has a Cartouche-like blaze that has not changed since that picture. And Forrest worked for the Forest Service, when he was a teenager. Hmmmm….

          IMO – The blaze on Lightning points to the blaze on that mountain.

          And another blaze of Lightning is formed from a bird’s eye view along the ridge Lightning Creek follows. Easily seen from Google Earth, a Good Topo Map or a Piper Malibu plane. That bolt points to where to begin, IMO.

          And Trail 205 is clearly easily navigable on horseback, if that is the mode of transportation Forrest chose.

  5. Sounds like you have fun. I think you started in the correct general area. I use the Boiling River as the first clue location.

  6. G’day, Jim!
    What a magnificent adventure!
    To fully appreciate what you have done, I would have to imagine what it would be like if I went to the Outback in search of one of those giant gold nuggets.
    My hat’s off to you! 🙂

  7. Nice solve. I especially like your music connection. It is truly remarkable how many connections to different people, places, and times this poem has.

    Great pictures as well. I hope you enjoyed your experience & come back to visit.

  8. I like your thoughts about the sliver of land being outside the park. I think the rest is a reach, but I’m glad you had a nice time and made it back out.

    How long were you here? Did you get to go anywhere else?

  9. Bear creek was my solve too. I traveled there and saw many of the things you did. I went into the valley and swam in the Yellowstone just up river from Bear Creek where the water was not so fast. I was looking in the shallow water there for old ruins of the mining structures they had used 100 years before thinking that a young Forest would have explored the same spot and maybe found a great hiding spot there. I climbed the switch back that day heading back to Eagle Creek campgrounds hoping to return the next day. Weather did not permit. But, I think you are right, It is across the river in a hiding spot that can be reached but has to be done by floating downstream because across the Yellowstone from the wooden bridge on Bear Creek you can see a doorway carved into the sheer rock face about 5 feet higher than the water level on the day. It was probably carved to hold equipment or a structure for the many operations preformed there in the past. I believe a young Forrest would have seen that doorway and HAD to explore it. any boy would. Once he knew what a great place it was he held that thought all his life until he had something he wanted to hide.
    P.S. I have always followed FF for years and I can tell you that he has always perked up a bit when a hunter is near Bear Creek. He actually asks a girl several questions about her search there… very unusual

  10. Nice write up. I thought this article was interesting not least because this adventurer from Australia while in Australia was in something of the same position as “the little girl from India” who supposedly according to Fenn cannot get past the first couple clues without boots on the ground. In other words this adventurer from Australia is a prime example of one of the main problems of the chase if we seriously subscribe to the theory that much of the poem cannot be solved without constant experimentation, boots on the ground, opposed to pure theoretical reasoning, solving the problem from home.

    It’s simply too expensive to subscribe to the view that the poem cannot largely be solved by a pure effort of reasoning from home. It’s simply too expensive to be constantly leaving one’s house experimenting in the field, hoping sheer and constant experimentation will result in the solution. This traveler from Australia, like the little girl from India, had to travel a great distance to put into operation a mere experiment, which is to say if the Fenn poem cannot be largely solved by pure reasoning without experimentation it’s similar to the vague reasoning of a particularly stupid particle physicist who must have constant access to a particle collider to take even a single step forward; but most particle physicists seem to realize their own situation and they appear smarter than Fenn searchers for they know that because experimentation is so expensive it’s better to have a highly disciplined and focused and creative mindset in the first place and to attempt to imagine as best as possible the correct solution to a problem beforehand and ideally not have to do much experimentation at all.

    Fortunately Fenn himself contradicts his statement about the little girl from India and the whole constant boots on the ground need in the chase: He says the person who finds the treasure will move confidently toward it, which can mean only one thing: It is possible to largely crack the whole thing from home without boots on the ground. You don’t need massive experimentation in the field, which means the little girl from India can come up with the correct solution and her problem is really only the need to get across the world to where the treasure is located. In fact who knows if somebody has cracked it already from on the other side of the world?

    I guess what I am proposing is people stop with the view that the poem cannot be cracked without constant experimentation, that “you can only get so far from reasoning from home and that boots on the ground are largely required to make sense of the poem”. I think it’s much more worthwhile to believe you can reason it out from home, that you can get so clear that you will move with confidence once on the ground as Fenn himself stated. In fact did he not say the poem has clues which if followed precisely will lead to the treasure? What is that other than the possibility that you can crack it simply by reasoning about it? Certainly the first couple clues people agree can be solved at home, so why not the rest of the poem?

    I know once we move into the problem of the blaze especially people will argue back and forth whether that can be solved from home or if we have to be there to recognize it, but even on that point I think it worthwhile to really listen to what Fenn says to get some idea beforehand of what “will be found” with respect to the blaze. In fact in the poem the blaze portion is in past tense: “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze”. This seems to imply you had to have some idea of what you would be seeing, unless of course it implies some extraordinary piece of improvisation on your part, a piece of wisdom in the moment whereby you catch what could not be anticipated by pure theoretical reasoning from home only…

    I guess though my major point is that perhaps a poll should be taken, it should be asked how many people subscribe to the view that the poem can largely be cracked from home, that it is not dependent so much on boots on the ground as so many seem to think. I wonder if Fenn himself will decisively answer this question. I certainly consider it a major question worth putting to Fenn.

    • Good post. I wholeheartedly believe that the entire poem can be solved from home, as I hope that I have done just that. I am going BOTG next week, and hope to gain 42 pounds. I will say that I believe that it is DIFFICULT to solve the poem from home, and that the first 2 clues are the easiest found on a map. Just my 2 cents.

      -Redneck

  11. Jim….the Jolly Swagman…thank you ever-so-much for sharing your adventure!
    So glad you got to see the wild “Jumbucks” (antelopes) and so do hope you carried some American Craft home in yer Tucker Bag. You were wise to carry some bear spray in your Matilda…until we see yer smiling face again we will keep “the billy boil’in”!!!

  12. I don’t think the treasure is under anythiing, except maybe a tree. My guess is the treasure is among trees in a valley, or high hill, not in some rocks. You mentioned the John Wayne character Rooster Cogburn, because of a line in the poem that is like one of his, but you neglected to make note of the fact that some of the most spectacular scenery in True Grit is in a part of Colorado that has much of the same features in Fenn’s poem, there is even a Chaco Pueblo ruins there near Chimny Rock Mountain. That mountain can be seen in the movie.

  13. Good try, Jim. You have to let us know your crow recipe. You are a tenacious fellow and I applaud your effort and skill. Don’t give up.

  14. I thought it was an awesome solve and similar to what I’m working on now. I liked the pictures the best.
    Thanks!

  15. What an awesome experience.

    I’m with something Seeker said early last year, though. I think we are “missing something big time”. These sweet solves are all versions of assigning parts of the poem to geographical features which, to be fair, is exactly what FF said we should do but I believe how we link them together has yet to be uncovered. Perhaps the first two are ‘easy’ and the subsequent ones proceed along other yet to be determined methods which is why they remain elusive.

    IMO

    • sean,

      I think what is missing, in general, is how we can perceive the words in the poem and over simplify them… I’ll add, we do similar with many of the ATF.
      Take Dwell for example, from the comment ” … don’t dwell enough on the first clue.”
      Some may think this was a word fenn picked out of thin air and doesn’t mean much, other than we need to think about WWWH’s deciphering more.
      Some attempt to be clever and align it with “home” or habitation, line of thinking.

      Yet, Dwell as other usages / meanings: pause, linger [ depending on how one needs to represent the word as intended.]

      Fenn has stated we need to ‘nail down’ the first clue. Many still only think about dwell and nail as analyzing thoughts. But nail means; fix, couple. So what can we see in the usages of the Dwell and Nail… can be totally different from analyzing; as to think, and might be more important to the meanings of: Pause, Linger, Fix, Couple .. for what is expected a searcher to do, rather than ‘just’ a though of the clue’s reference to it’s location.

      Now If we take other suggestion fenn has given… but don’t seem directly related to the meanings and word usages;
      Folks left the poem.
      Folks didn’t know [ well, anything ]
      Folks were on site and went by everything.
      WHY? HOW? could they have been so close and not know squat?
      Could it be a simple as ‘plain English’? We don’t know the words we use every day-?- or how someone can use them with a different intent of the meanings?

      Now lets go back to the first two clues… WhatIF we are supposed to, Pause, Linger, Fix-upon, Couple-together something about the first clue, instead of walking away, because we only think “take it in” has to be a movement, and NFBTFTW must mean mileage to travel.

      But, my comments are only ideas that have occurred to me by simple understanding of multiple meanings and usages of words.

      However, If we look at the other words in the poem, a type of pattern emerges. Tarry; linger, scant; small, gaze; fit upon, even marvel; as to see related to gaze…. now take other suggestion fenn has stated: ‘Imagination’ is more important than knowledge and will be more helpful in solving the poem.
      Part of imagining anything, is to see it. It’s how we see it that is what imagination may bring to life.
      Fenn has stated we need to plan and observe… hmmm Dwell, Nail Down? are these words, that fenn seemingly pick out of thin air, make more sense in what we ‘might have to do’ when ‘in the field’? {observe}
      Rather than picking an image on GE and say, Hey that looks like an omega, or a horse, or fenn’s dog, or an alligator, and something white looks like the blaze… they must be clues.
      I’m reminded of this Q&A;

      ~Forrest, you talk about the clues being difficult to solve (opposite being easy) yet that the solutions are simple (opposite being complex). Yet when I read the stories of other searchers, I often think that their solutions to the clues tend to be either easy solutions or made out to be very complex and over-thought. Are there any suggestions you would give in approaching the clues and solving them? ~Craig
      ~Craig, there is no substitute for thinking and planning and observing and looking at maps, unless it’s the desire to keep it simple.f

      Well, I can’t say we’re not all ‘thinking and looking at map”
      But I can say; I don’t see much in-line with; Thinking about the “planning and observing” part fenn repeats.

      Yep, I still say we’re missing something big time… I’m just not sure if it’s ‘only’ in the poem and/or book. But it might be more to the fact, we should have the idea of ‘what to do,’ prior to botg to retrieve the chest.

      IMO, The stomping method [ and I’ll add, driving between clues ] does exactly the something when used in ‘any’ hunt.
      The idea in hunting is to stomp, push your game to a desire location for taking that game easier ~[ sometimes called funnel hunting, or the trap].
      The idea in treasure hunting has the same results… pushing clues to be where ‘your’ desired / hopeful location is.

      End of fortune cook…

      • I think that you are right Seeker. I think that we need to “Dwell” on what may be “on site” and “Observe” what may be there that we have overlooked in the past – being in too big of a hurry to get to the next clue, without fully understanding Clue #1 first etc. JMO – I will leave a day early, just so that I have time to “Observe” – JDA

        • Just ideas I have, Sean.
          Wit my ideas, I try and be contiguous in nature [ think about both those words [ contiguous and nature ].

          It may sound like I’m trying to stay in a parameter of “thought”… yet contiguous mean coupling, joining… not unlike marrying “physically”. And nature could have been meant as a theme or pattern, but it could also be; nature as in the study of what we have been told “might help.” – just not the nature many think about.
          { talk about bending words, that are in a dictionary, to make them work, huh? }

          Subtle pieces of information for thought. Not clues, not even hints… just suggestion of thought and a possible idea of a full process needed. When I look at ATF comments… I truly mean; I use then as a check and balance… not only, so I don’t go haywire that there must be a clue that directly relates to an answer of a clue reference. fenn has already stated many way, he is not going to aid a searcher. But, in the attempt to hold them {ATF} as true as they were possible possible meant… contiguous to each other.

          But just like the poem and fenn’s suggestion to think, analyze, plan, and observe following the clues “precisely” as his blueprint was designed as ‘he’ intended.
          The ATF need the same approach, imo, without involving what I think the poem should be. And IMO, fenn ‘needed’ to do exactly the same has ‘we’ are told [ the poem ] to get it completed.

          Figuring out a clue reference is only 1/2 way there to completing it all, [metaphorically] ‘line of thinking’. There is still work to be done.

          LOL.. now I’m starting to sound like a know-IF-all.

          Disclaimer; IF anything I say helps ya… great.
          IF not, I never ‘said’ it, but only to suggest it.

        • http://www.halt.com – Now that was cute! Good luck to Ya’ Sean.

          And thanks for your insight Seeker. We will soon see if “Observation” works –

          Question Seeker – Is a rock placed in a natural environment “contiguous to nature?” – Don’t know why I asked that – that is just what popped into my mind when I read those words – weird I guess – JDA

          • IMO, JDA,
            You answered your own question or didn’t word the question it the way you really wanted to.

            IF the rock is “natural in its environment,” how can it not be connected to the environment it is in? Right?

            But if you’re talking about [ for example ] a boulder moved many miles [ even hundreds of miles, lets say from the Yukon area ] by glacial activity and that Rock ends up CO… the question isn’t only about; is it natural to the area it is in, but if it’s not supposed to be there, where did it come from and how did it get there, when did it happen?

            The same example can be about the idea wwwh is a a basin.
            Does just deciphering the basin idea give reasons to why-?- that particular basin?

            A basin is a watershed or river basin… that covers, pretty much all the lands… because all the lands have or had water flow that created those lands and their basin. The same can be said for lands in many of the mid-state’s areas as an ‘ocean basin’ Only today, many didn’t even know that this part of N. America had a small shallow ocean all the way into now Canada.
            Is this what fenn meant when he said we need to ‘learn’ what wwwh is?

            And this is my point; ya just can’t guess at a clue reference and try to make it work as you hope it should… What is it are we missing? Is it the geographical, geological history of the search location?
            Is it only about WWWH, or all the clues. Does the thought geography give up the size of the location? IS a canyon huge in size or descriptively small in thought, like the canyons in one’s hand, idea….. And how do we see any of that when on site, if we don’t have an idea of what we should see or imagine, “beforehand.”

            IF I had answers, we wouldn’t be chatting right now. I’m trying to find the truth in the connections with the ATF that can align with the process of the poem.

            Fenn has made comments and answered our many questions… they should be true to the poem, for the most part… I just don’t see what most think; that fenn is feeding us answers to clues like handing out candy on Halloween.

            IMO and for example; fenn used consecutive order to give the idea the clues don’t jump around the poem, and yet later, said they are contiguous… If all contiguous was meant to be exactly the same as consecutive… well, my thoughts don’t mean a dang thing then. But I think he changed it up for a; suggestion of thought. Not unlike why we should think down the road, or why the RM’s movement will affect the “precise” outcome later on etc etc.

            If you don’t have WWWH nailed down, stay home. That says to me… you need to know why that clue is, before you go, to have a chance of understanding how to ‘complete’ the poem’s clues on site. That is as simple as I can explain my thoughts. But it nice to read about all those vacations folks are enjoying… the poem thus far has done its job.

          • Thanks for your answer Seeker. Not sure I understand the poem any better, but it was food for thought – Thanks – Maybe I can find what I think I will – who knows? – JDA

    • Way back in 2013, or even earlier.

      “The relevance of the double omegas will go to the grave with the man who wrote the poem” f

        • I have often wondered if that would change if the TC was found while he was still alive. He can’t say that now because it would indicate that they are relevant to the solution.

        • JD –

          I have been watching the old videos that I am aware of and I heard him say it, I just cant’ recall which interview.

          I think he was speaking to the woman from New Mexico that he did his very first TToTC interview with.

  16. Forrest has said that everything we need to know to find the treasure is in the poem. Therefore, when he says “If you are wise and found the blaze,” he is hinting that he tells us in the poem what the blaze is just as he tells us specially which state, canyon, and creek, and which direction to travel from the blaze and how far. He claims that he was not a good student, but neither was Albert Einstein. Forrest Fenn is a brilliant man who has used his proficiency with the English language to create a game that I hope will challenge adventurers like ourselves for millennia.

    • OK, I’ll bite, vfhoyt. Which is the correct direction to move in from the blaze and what is the distance [“how far”]?
      I’m curious because fenn stated; he did measure it.

      Q~Mr. Fenn: How far is the chest located from the blaze? ~ casey
      A~Casey, I did not take the measurement, but logic tells me that if you don’t know where the blaze is it really doesn’t matter. If you can find the blaze though, the answer to your question will be obvious. Does that help?f
      What he did say/imply is, if you’re at the blaze the distance would be known then.
      I mean, he would have to be brilliant to tell us a measurement he supposedly never measured out.

      You said he tells us “specifically” what state. Can you show us exactly the specific state he tell us about in the poem?

        • If FF hid the treasure chest 20 feet below the blaze, he would not have to measure it. Once you locate the blaze, you will be in the ballpark, but none of this will help you until you locate the blaze, which he has brilliantly concealed in the poem. Concerning the distance from the blaze to the treasure chest, FF has hinted, “Many have given serious thought to the clues in the poem, but only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key.” Also, “Imagination isn’t a technique, it’ a key.” And, “It takes a key, not a combination.”

    • In my opinion, FF tells us in the first stanza “what” has the blaze side.

      More specifically in the third line, it says “in what” its secret place is supported.

      The English language and its amazing meanings! I’m loving this.

      I just hope I do not have to taste the sandals of humiliation.

      I’d better be quiet. : )

    • Ok, vfhoyt,

      But we have fenn implying that a place like YSP is a region and wwwh is more specific. IF WWWH identifies a state… isn’t that a non specific place for a clue to represent?
      I mean, Green Acres is the place to be, but knowing what state it is, isn’t going to located it, is it? I mean, which canyon do we chose out of all the canyons in any given stated?

      Its easy to say he tells us, but can you explain how wwwh refers to an entire state?

  17. “Where warm waters halt” is a riddle, “a mystifying, misleading, or puzzling question posed as a problem to be solved or guessed often as a game, conundrum, enigma, something difficult to understand.” (Merriam-Webster) FF denied there were any riddles in the beginning, but he has more recently admitted to “my riddle.” We know there are only four states to consider. When FF said it has something to do with geography, I grimaced and thought Don’t just give it to them! If you Google “Geography of [each State],” you may notice in the first paragraph where warm water stops being warm water. Not everyone who reads the answer to the riddle will recognize it, but IMO, a brilliant riddle created by a brilliant man. This is only the first clue. FF is sly with his use of the language, and the clues do not get much easier, but I do believe WWWH was the hardest.

  18. Hi Jim,

    Would you be interested in participating in the Birthday for Forrest? It involves planting a new tree or dedicating an existing tree for Forrest. Email me at prairie.flower.ff@gmail.com if you’re interested. It would be great to have a tree from Australia included!

    Prairie Flower

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