Scrapbook One Hundred Eighty Eight…


JUNE 2018


In 1955 I was at the Texas Open golf tournament in San Antonio walking on my way to someplace when I heard a booming voice “Hey kid they got any cold beer around here?” I stopped and looked about. There were lots of people milling but none of them were paying attention to me so I thought it must be an aberration.

“Hey feller I’m up here” the voice bellowed. I was standing beside a ladder that climbed straight up about 10 feet to a platform where I saw an arm wildly waving at me. “Think you could find a couple of cold ones somewhere?”

The arm belonged to Dizzy Dean and I recognized his beaming face right off. He played for several teams including the St. Louis Cardinals and was the last pitcher in the National League to win 30 games in one season.

He was one of my all-time favorite baseball heroes (along with the ageless Satchel Paige who famously said “How old would I be if I didn’t know how old I wuz?”

About 10 minutes later I climbed the ladder holding a six pack of Jax beer and a Dr. Pepper. My cost was almost 2 bucks but I didn’t care because this was Dizzy Dean . I was thrilled even more than when I shook hands with Sammy Baugh.

Dizzy was commentating on the radio between sips and talking with me during commercials and more sips.

It was Sunday afternoon and as the tournament wound down Dizzy finished off the last Jax and my bottle of soda was almost done. We said our good-byes and I climbed down the ladder expecting to see a bunch of photographers recording me and Dizzy. There weren’t any but it was an experience I’ve enjoyed for the last 63 years.

A personal note:

I’ve been criticized for the way I write and use words. I say I too much, mix verb tenses, use commas wrong, and I can’t spell.

I just read through my story above about Dizzy Dean, and removed all of the commas. I feel so good I may just go get myself another Dr. Pepper. f



405 thoughts on “Scrapbook One Hundred Eighty Eight…

        • Feller is a lumberjack and wuz is a past wizard

          Shucks, there must be a kernel of a hint somewhere in there.

          • hahaha that was good anti!

            I bet the hint in this story is the dr pepper. It’s the thing in the chest that will let him know it has been found. It is a dr pepper bottle from 1955, unopened, that he wants returned to him and he will “buy” it back for 500K. A dizzying amount for a soda.

          • daWiser, you have a great imagination . . . maybe you can
            solve the poem? I think FF’s usage of double letters in this
            scrapbook is a bit of teasing or hinting. (Bob) Feller was another famous baseball player. As always, IMO.

        • along with my gramer im working on my math why 63 years i think it might be a plus a few but what do i think great story it all boils down to people are just people good and bad alike well there is a difference there

      • I’m currently adapting to Zap’s philosophy with steganography. Not sure of the underlying theme, but let’s assume for a starting hypothesis that land surveying terminology and methods are somehow related. Don’t “mean” to stretch a tangent, but allow me to entertain myself.

        “Wuz” might be points in an angular field, W, U, Z, perhaps related to an azimuth, or a “face right” vertical circle (perhaps a half-gon, or a monogon), and maybe relative to a specific fixed cadastral station on a map of 15 min quadrangles. Considering land survey measurements are read right to left instead of left to right, and misplaced commas can drastically impact the legal description, I do wonder if this hypothesis begins to make sense. “Cardinal” directions would apply, but not entirely sure which “north” we’re discussing. Given the interest in chains, I’m starting to wonder if the Texas A&M references and marble references (aggies) are related to “agrimensores”. I could spiral nigh forever with spiral curve offsets, but I’ll leave it here for the moment.

        “Feller” seemingly matches to Fenn’s word usage of “Sawyer”, his drawing of a field of stumps, and photos and stories of cutting and floating on logs in TTOTC. This seems a bit in the wood.

    • Sounds to me like someone was 10 feet away from some cold ones (bronze and gold)…

      • A ‘dizzy’ searcher was within 10 feet and didn’t know it. And now is a good Time to go back and retrieve the chest.
        (Does anyone else ever get the feeling Fenn is speaking directly to them?)

        • Yes. All the time. I know where it is now I believe. I am scared of bears though and I will need a guide loaded with bear spray or other. I believe I know the pp who where close and they weren’t searching for the proxy. They didn’t encounter any bears but just loads of biting mosquitoes. They describe the place of two level meadows and on the second meadow is some sort of a depression inside the side of the mountain. They never took a look inside because their dog was acting funny.
          The second group of pp who went up there was a son and father who camped out and again the biting mosquitoes where everywhere. Not sure how the poem fits into it though. I will have to take a better tight focus on it. I believe WWWH is up.

          • LOL, I’ll take the bear over the mosquitoes or fire ants. I was cleaning the under carriage of my lawn tracker and sharpening the blades, only to discover I had company. Right now, I’m wishing a Mr. Grizzly Brown would invite me for dinner.

          • opps Tractor… wait, maybe it has a GPS system on it. Apparently it’s faulty because it halt me right on an ant colony.

        • That searcher should get a longer white stick with an orange tip, if that close and not know.
          On the other subject; If fenn was talking to me?! I need to get hearing aids as well, and borrow McB translator.

          • If you never intend to leave your house to visit the Rockies you will need an even longer stick. 😀
            (PS: Hearing aids do not enhance written words).

        • Lol, don’t say that!! I was botg the earlier in the week, and was feeling rather dizzy. It would be crushing for someone else to find it in an area you are or have been searching.

        • I think this is one of the best ways to get people to let Forrest know their solves because if something like this (if it is a hint and not an aberration) comes up the only way you can be included is if you sent him a solve. I have one spot I was interested in rechecking anyway (I made sure to check that my e-mail was sent prior to this post) so why not have that little extra push and see if I can’t get my cold ones from 10 feet below. Hint or not, thanks Forrest, reminds me of when I met Andie MacDowell when I was a kid at the Missoula fairgrounds. cj1066, if it is a hint, hopefully someone out there solves this so I can rest for a while before the next adventure. I would love to get my mind off the treasure but keep up the hikes with my kids.

        • If someone was recently within 10 feet of the TC, then it’s likely
          to have been retrieved by that person. It looks to me like this
          may *well* be the case. IMO.

          • tighterfocus,

            Where was it mentioned by F, for him to say “recently within 10 feet”?
            I don’t recall that being said and the context with that was said. Could you point it out?

          • Not necessarily as some people travel a long way to get to their solve location and it isn’t always easy to drop everything and go back. This is of course assuming this is a hint.

          • Of course, one thing I have always wondered. How many coincidences can you have until it stops being a coincidence.

          • Good article Zap. You know how I feel, you are looking at the wrong former treasure hunt as expressed in literary form.

            Quote from the (Zap) linked that describes precisely what Flutterby (and others) are going through in real time:

            In 1958, German neurologist Klaus Conrad coined the term Apophänie to describe schizophrenic patients’ tendency to imbue random events with personal meaning. An apophany has the form factor of an epiphany—the sense of breakthrough, of events finally coming together and making sense—but without any relationship to real explanations.

            Sir, have you read and understood this Apophany idea?


          • The irony is that eventually somebody’s research will lead them to the chest and what some might consider a psychotic ‘apophany’ will be the actual solve to Fenn’s puzzle.
            Uncle Dal warned me there might be naysayers and misinformed individuals out there. 🙂

      • Yes, cj1066 and randawg. Maybe, Butch. This ethical dilemma tarries with scant resolve.

      • How would FF or anyone else (other than the searcher) know this? I
        don’t think the hidey place is under surveillance, but perhaps somebody’s
        posted messages have let FF know one’s progress in solving and searching (for example, if FF had left a “recognizable” thing on top of
        the TC). As always, IMO.

    • Hello Dal and FF, I want to say Thank you My husband thinks I’m crazy, but I know I’m not. I’m finding treasure everywhere I look. I’m seeing things that speak to me even though they can’t talk..I’ve also found some really awsome rocks, just walking barefoot in the river to cool off. So I wear my colors proudly, and hold my head high. I know exactly where I’m going I’m walking in footprints of those who inspire me FF. Thanks again Doesn’t seem like enough so soon we will come see you=¿< and ask you if we can take pictures and please sign my book. I think I was born in the wrong time period cause I understand FF and your stories are GREATLY appreciated they bring sweet memories of my loved ones who walked with when I was younger, and took me on journeys walking in the . WLMD

    • “Comma Chameleon”,,, best comment ever Dal. Should we go to the Boy George Dabich story for more hints though? And thanks for the Scrapbook Forrest!

      • This talk about commas may be more significant than one might think.
        But not a biggie. Just my opinion.

  1. I love his personal note, but should he have used a colon after note? Just kidding.

    • David Dow – And the Colon after note would then be the home of Brown!:

      Definition of colon
      plural colons or cola play \ˈkō-lə\
      : the part of the large intestine that extends from the cecum to the rectum

  2. Dizzy Dean lived for awhile before his fame and fortune about a mile down the road from here in Spaulding Ok on tater hill.

  3. Yeah man – Blood Meridian style!

    (“Cormac McCarthy was known to write a story and then go back and remove all of the commas.” ff)


  4. Hmm, maybe he is saying removing comma’s from the poem gives the same meaning.

    Thanks for sharing!

    • In others words:

      The chest will be mine butt I will do whatever I want if I was not happy going
        not looking for another treasure that sits on top of a rock beside a watery rainbow but I have not found it for millennia by any dumb researcher.

      No commas, no points and written the way I wanted.

      Very exciting this. Especially for a foreigner.

      Thanks FF! : )

  5. I’m wondering (comma) why wasn’t it a “Grapette”?

    Great story!! 🙂

    • No idea. But my guess is because Grapette doesn’t require any punctuation. Neither does Dr Pepper, but the missing period is a bit more notable.

      One who is of similar thought might compare missing punctuation to that of Egyptian hieroglyphs. But that’s just me.

    • do you know his story about a/the Dr. pepper can that takes up space??? if not go find it and read it… It says a lot IMHO

      • sorry. but true yes?
        … and there are some that think ff doesn’t speak to us….

  6. Is it a sign your brains getting old and out of shape if you miss having commas to take a pause? Fun story Forrest thak you for sharing… 🙂

  7. Summer has arrived and I still have no dates firm to play my last hole..

    I see Mike Souchak won that 1955 tournament with a record low tournament score of -27 that stood for about 22 years.

  8. Thanks Forrest,

    Guess I’ve been using to many commas when I write. I get what your saying. You ever yell so much at a baseball game that you can’t hear anything afterwards? In my scout days we went to games, and one time this happened. There’s that comma again. My writing stinks too.


  9. Mr Fenn, Pay no attention to those who complain about your use of commas. I think you are one of the vest writers of your generation.

    • I’m gazing at your message (hee hee), and sometimes wonder whether an
      apparent typo is intended as one. Yes, I’m a fan of music oldies. I even
      like Andy Williams songs, as well as performances by Andy Kaufman. IMO.

      • I’m not so sure I understand your point(s).

        When I think about Andy Williams, I think of his songs “Moon River” and “Butterfly”.

        When I think about Andy Kaufman, I think of him emulating Elvis
        (Presley, that is, not an alligator).

        I also think about “Man on the Moon”, a movie about Kaufman’s life.

        Hmm. Do ya think I’m dwelling/tarrying too long about the moon?

        • You sure are making some waves TA and I get motion sickness, but as long as you don’t talk about waxing, I’ll be ok.

          • Edit- I meant affecting the tides, not making waves. I must have been hungry when I posted….

  10. @ff, it seems those that criticize your grammar may not fully understand it themselves.

    “It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.” ~Mark Twain

    • This post from FF only confirmed the theory that it is the words and letters that matter and not the sentences.

      Codes, anagrams…etc..

      Perhaps the skeptics and unbelievers are right: This Chase still will take us from the vacuum to the void, and create a generation of paranoid schizophrenics, obsessed with chests.

      ha… ha… ha… : (

      • @McB, if sentences were not important then maybe he should have left out the periods as well.

      • Mc.B –Did you notice the Period in Dr. Pepper is removed in the modern spelling–But in the story above it is put back in Dr.-Dr–May be a hint of some sort..

      • The Spoken word is different than the Written word Most Professional Actors rewrite all their dialogue removing all the punctuation marks placed by the Screenwriter Each actor creates his or her own rhythm seperate from the usually unnatural placement of objects that aren’t normally spoken with apologies to Victor Borges pfft!


        • Good *point* ; maybe the one who best utilizes this understanding
          will be the “victor” in this shunt. IMO.

      • McB- it is the words and letters that matter. We seem to be thinking alike. Those wuz my thoughts exactly. A B C, hear me all. g

      • McB- it is the words and letters that matter. We seem to be thinking alike. Those wuz my thoughts exactly. A B C, hear me all.

  11. Ha hahahahahahaha… oops I mean, Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha… awww the heck with it.
    Ha hahahahahahaha.

    Holy crap! what a chuckle!

      • LOL.. that’s not an opinion, ken, that’s a fact.

        I’m still chuckling… I need to zip Zap back, and get my head on straight forward.

  12. Sir, thank you for the nice story. Dizzy Dean was certainly a legend in his time.

    And for the record, you will never be criticized by me for the way you write because I do the same. Not intentionally, I just didn’t do very good that way in school.

    Please have a great summer with the family.


  13. I’m the unobservant kind. I didn’t notice there weren’t any commas, until ff told on himself.

  14. Sr. Forrest, translate to english:

    Você tá de brincadeira, né?

    Justo agora que eu tava quase lá?

    Desse jeito, daqui a pouco estarei falando chinês!

    Um abraço meu querido. Queria poder conhecê-lo pessoalmente.

    McB – Marcelo from Brazil : )

    • Onuat – And so it is. Yesterday was the Summer Solstice. That is the official beginning of Summer.

      Good one! I consider this scrapbook to represent the Green Light to GO!

  15. To All:
    Mr. Fenn said that he removed the commas from his Dizzy Dean story, not that he was editing his poem to remove all of the commas.

    • Shhh! Don’t confuse them!

      The punctuation in the poem is only for looks! ROFLMAO

      • WY,

        You may think its clever to mock people on here but I think its wrong and not needed, some people are just starting out on their chase this season and haven’t been trying to figure it out for YEARS like you, im really not sure what your trying to achieve by doing this, its not helping anyone and I dont see a bronze chest on your lap, I have watched your videos and I find them very informative and throw up some interesting points, so how about you transfer some of that over to here for the newbies instead of constantly mocking them, the chase is supposed to be fun and your not making it fun with your comments IMO.

        • I just started this season. My solve location has never been mentioned before and I’m sure I have the correct one, though I found Wys video on drawing lines informative and will check that location out on my way out if the primary solve doesn’t pan out.

      • The look of some punctuation is more significant than the look of some other punctuation; thanks for mentioning this. IMO

  16. I believe with this SB, he’s trying to draw attention to at least the word “pitch” (and perhaps several others).

    – golf
    – Dizzy Dean
    – comma
    – ladder
    – booming
    – bellow

    … each of these words have “pitch” as a synonym intersect. I can only surmise that he wants us to think of brown, or tar. Sammy Baugh was a QB, but also a punter. Punt was also the name of a trading region, the partner of which brown and pitch became synonymous in Mummy Brown.

    Dizzy Dean was also a pitcher for the St. Louis Browns. Just sayin.

    • E.C. Waters – A forest full of pines might be a good home of Brown then. Now I am remembering a theory I had about a Native American tree burial, because of the ladder and platform in this story by Forrest. Always remember to look up.

      Is the Summer Solstice when pine sap is prevalent?

  17. Wonderful memory. I imagine you would have had quite a view from where you were standing. I can almost picture it in my mind. A treasured memory for sure.

    Treasure the adventure!

  18. Sometimes some of the biggest hints are things that are not mentioned that possibly should have been. A hint could be something that “should” be in a picture and isn’t, rather than what we see in the actual picture. I really liked this story. 1955 happens to be the year I was born so that made it even more interesting. lol.

    But I remembered something as I read the story about Dizzy Dean and that was the fact that there was another pitcher named “Daffy Dean” who was in the American League. They were the greatest duo in baseball, and they were brothers in real life.

    I find that to be really interesting.

  19. I imagine that would be quite the view from where you were standing. A great memory to be treasured for a lifetime.

    Thank you Forrest for many treasured memories and Dal for a place to share.

    Treasure the adventure.

  20. Ahahaha! Somebody give that guy a beer and say ‘Hi’ to the folks back in O hi o for me. ( BTW I didn’t buy the doughnut, I bought the cinnamon roll even though it was a dollar more.)

  21. The detuned radio in my head says,

    Arrest this man
    He talks in maths
    He buzzes like a fridge

    This is what you’ll get
    When you mess with Texas

  22. Just a deep thought “of mine”.

    Someone here hit firmly on FF’s head.

    Otherwise, why this story suddenly with that “note seemingly harmless” about punctuation?

    A Maverick will not worry about it, because much more serious things are discussed here.

    And as far as I know, it was not being discussed the ability of FF to write, but how “us” read the poem.

    Why talk about a subject that was “much” debated among searchers recently? A distraction? A maneuver?

    Very suspicious this …

    With sure, this scolding did not come for free, just as the ATF of WWWH = dam did not come for free either.

    I think someone posted something “very” relevant here.Something that provoked a reaction.

    But what could it be?

    Sorry me, Mr. Fenn, but trusting blindly in everything, or anything, is not one of my qualities more prominents.

    Humm … to think … Humm … to analyze… Humm … I did have a idea…

    • I think he is poking fun at the people who are changing the poem and misreading it.

      Seems to me that people might want to pay attention and stop messing with the poem.

      For those who might be confused, watch this:

      And take it as a hint to stop saying he “forgot” to add a comma 😉

      • Wy,

        I think he saw something.


        He would not bother to say it for nothing, and exactly at the moment when we were discussing about it.

        JMO of course.

        • Well I know he seen the video… He also seen the bad comedy attempt video I made (he replied to that one).

          If anything, it seems as though he is joking about people who are ignoring the punctuation (or inserting commas where none exist). That last video was made specifically to address it because I am tired of listening to people who are walking down the canyon when the poem is not telling them to do that (unless HOB is there LOL).

          So why is it that some searchers got the first 2 clues, then walked right past the other 7? Perhaps, just maybe, they went down the canyon and HOB is right where the waters halt.

          I guess he may as well remove all the punctuation, including the sexy semicolon. People are ignoring it all anyway and taking the poem as one step per poem line and ignoring the context. Seems like a silly thing to do, even worse to add commas where none are 😛

        • Wy,

          I think someone whispered something here on the blog.

          Someone has the correct solution, and FF realized.

          Maybe this “personal note” might be an attempt to confuse someone.

          Mr. Fenn is smart.

          Please, excuse me for my lack of confidence. It’s just excessive care.

          • Could be, but I doubt it. He is clearly busting chops of people who do not think punctuation and grammar matter in the poem.

            It’s funny because people will say “do not mess with the poem” and then they abuse it by not reading it as written.

            No wonder why he used “Dizzy” Dean 😀

          • No, Wy, he’s busting YOUR chops for being a comma Nazi. That’s what’s so funny.

          • @Zap, actually the joke is on those who are ignoring punctuation and grammar, and by no means is Wymustigo doing that, nor is he criticizing Forrest’s use of punctuation and grammar, he is merely trying to explain it. IMO

          • Wanderer, all you have to do is listen to how Forrest recites his own poem to know he doesn’t give a hoot about commas.

          • Even a dictionary can be recited.

            A shopping list can be recited.

            A phone book can be recited.

            A package insert can be recited.

            A price list can be recited.

            The time count of a poem (rhythm) gives no information at all.

            If the vocal recitation (rhythm) passes some specific information, then:

            > Listen to a song in a language other than yours, and then tell me if you got any information other than the rhythm.

            If you do not “understand” what is written and “how” it is written, you did not get any information.

          • As usual Zap, he is busting your chops for thinking the grammar and punctuation in the poem are meaningless.

            Like thewanderer said, I am NOT altering the poem, I am only trying to point out that many people are NOT reading it as Forrest intended.

            Some things, like clue solutions, are up for debate. Reading the poem properly is not up for debate. There is really nothing subjective about it with the exception of the clues. For example, “IT”. I cannot claim for fact that IT is a river. I can claim that due to the lack of a comma before “and”, halt and take both apply to the waters. That is a fact, there is nothing to debate with that statement.

            Note about IT: Although I can’t claim for fact what IT is, I can give a good argument that the sentence would make no sense if IT does not mean the same thing in both locations within that sentence. But I won’t, I’ve helped you a lot 🙂

          • Secret messages, whispers in the shadows… how would anyone know in the virtual sea of comments. It would almost be like delivering a message in a bottle. If you found it would you know what to do with it?

          • Wy: you’ve “helped me a lot.” That’s a hoot, coming from someone who hasn’t identified WWWH and searches in the wrong state. I”m sorry, but you know nothing, John Snow. Ah yes …. in my opinion.

          • Zap,

            In Portuguese we have a saying:

            “O sujo falando do mal lavado.”

            Try to translate, and then answer me:

            Do you is a…?

          • McB: I’m happy for all the people that search in Wyoming, Colorado and New Mexico, which is certainly most Fenn searchers. Less folks poking around in my area. 😉

          • McB,

            Confucius say: He who stands on toilet is high on pot.

            IMO…FF has intentionally misled nobody! So much was said about the pinion nut mishap but FF made it very CLEAR that he had misspoke. NUFF SAID. McB, follow your heart and speak kindly of others. You are worthy of Chase McB! I think everyone is worthy of the Chase and all much more worthy than myself. Enjoy your travels McB and have a drink on me when you find Senior Indulgence my friend. Who knows, maybe we will cross paths Sum day?

          • Confucius also say “man who have hand in pocket all day…. feeling cocky”

            Lot’s of chickens being counted out there and all I see are eggs.

          • Why is it. The unasked question of reason. The answers will always be cancers. I feel gooder than I ever have, but I still feel bad. Only time will tell if my hammer is the weight of the world.

            Just talking. I appreciate your ideas.

  23. I love the story. Thank you Forrest! And thank you Dal!

    I can only imagine a life filled with so many amazing memories to cherish. I bet you had a great view way up there too.

  24. I guess he is laughing at those who ignore punctuation and insert commas where they don’t exist! I love it 🙂

    Note: Moral – Read the poem as he wrote it, don’t mess with the poem by reading punctuation that isn’t there! LOL


    As a broadcaster, Dean was famous for his wit and his often-colorful butchering of the English language.

    An English teacher once wrote to him, complaining that he shouldn’t use the word “ain’t” on the air, as it was a bad example to children. On the air, Dean said, “A lot of folks who ain’t sayin’ ‘ain’t,’ ain’t eatin’. So, Teach, you learn ’em English, and I’ll learn ’em baseball.”

    • Ha! Wanderer ~ Plain Enlish don’t be needin no stinkin commas or the letter G apparently.

  26. Can someone check this?

    Maybe 21 commas missing, 1 parenthesis missing, 1 added period in Dr Pepper.

    What else?

  27. First time I’ve seen this story. Oh, how exciting it must of been for you! LoL. If it had been me, we would of needed a different kinda doctor. But enjoy that cold drink and let the good times roll~you earned it.


  28. These scrapbooks are such a hoot. Speaking of cold drinks, there is flooding occurring in several places in the Rockies right now. I have a friend who couldn’t search because of flash floods and a few scary characters on her tail feathers.

    Remember to stay safe in the mountains and bring a search partner that you can outrun.

  29. Zap said: “No, Wy, he’s busting YOUR chops for being a comma Nazi. That’s what’s so funny.”

    That’s right Wy, you are riding the comma bicycle backwards.

    • You are free to think what you want. I know I am right, and my list of non competitors grows fast. I won’t be seeing you down in the canyon, I will be up with the intelligent folks 🙂

      • Last I have heard from FF there hasn’t been a chest found up or down in a canyon. So why is it that you must go? The answer’s I already know. For it is there you will find your crow. Enjoy!

        • Finding the chest has nothing to do with the fact that you can’t read English! LOL

          This Scrapbook rocks… He is laughing at you, and you cannot see it! ROFLMAO. I’ve seen it all now.

        • Wy: the poem isn’t a reading test, a grammar test, or a math test. It is a puzzle. As for reading, I’ll put my vocabulary and grammar knowledge up against anyone here.

          • @Zap, you ought try challenging Forrest then, I’m sure he is around here somewhere. Oh wait, he already threw down that gauntlet. LOL.

          • Wanderer: Forrest is the only one with whom I’m competing, and yes — he’s whipped my hide the last 3 years. In this, it would appear I have the company of a few hundred thousand others. But I’m a patient man, and I don’t worry one bit about other searchers. This is not A Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World.

          • Zap, you already failed because you do not agree that “halt and take” apply to the waters. That is based on how the poem is written, I do not change anything.

            If you disagree with that, then you are altering the poem and inserting commas where none exist.

            How can you expect to find anything when you are not reading it as it is written? Seriously, how can anyone make such a silly statement?

          • Zap, I always appreciate your attention to grammar and vocabulary. Those skills are becoming rare.

          • Wy, this is getting tiresome and I’m more interested in figuring out the endgame of Forrest’s poem then debating the irrelevant, finer points of grammar with you. But this one falsehood must be addressed: “Zap, you already failed because you do not agree that “halt and take” apply to the waters.”

            Again, you know nothing John Snow. Based on this one erroneous statement, you clearly have no idea how I interpret the second stanza. But I’ll tell you this much: the first IT is a body of water, and the second IT is the SAME body of water, IMO of course. From what little I’ve paid attention to your theories, it would seem we are in agreement on those points. Why not embrace the commonalities instead of taking me to task over the points about which we disagree?

          • Zap – I do not care if you like the discussion or not, it is relative and extremely important.

            The most important thing in this chase is that we read the poem EXACTLY how Forrest has written it.

            You are altering the poem, and that is wrong. You are claiming that the waters do not “halt and take”, that too is wrong. Trying to teach you how to read is getting tiresome. Just ignore English, go back to converting words from English to Spanish so your solve works, that is the ticket man!

  30. Lol, I really think it is funny that FF has started even more debate by trying to clear up the debate about comma’s. It seems clear to me that he is saying the comma’s do not matter and he could take them out of the original story and have it mean exactly the same as it did when they were there. Since we don’t need to worry about them in the story then we do not need to worry about them in the poem.

      • wow wy.
        very unbecoming of you. you have exhausted your area and have nothing new in which to be excited and so close to the final curtain.
        then again i dont always read em dead on but there is much truth in which i speak, yes?

    • Wy, Aaron, my friends,

      Only after someone finds the treasure, they will know if the commas existed or were in the right place.

      For now, we’re trying to get it right.

      : )

      • Nah, this Scrapbook is basically calling out the “Dizzy Deans” that do not grasp the concept of punctuation. He is laughing at folks who are altering his poem by putting in commas that don’t exist.

        I am enjoying this, A LOT 🙂

      • But McB, here Forrest freely admits that he uses commas improperly:

        “I say I too much, mix verb tenses, use commas wrong, and I can’t spell.”

        From this, why would anyone think he was a stickler for proper comma usage in his poem? This dovetails with his (second-hand) quote that I feel obligated to bring to everyone’s attention yet again: “I have always said the poem will lead you to the treasure if you have the right map and know where to start. It is straight forward so there is no need to over-think it or LOOK FOR COMMAS AND MISSPELLINGS AS CLUES (my emphasis). It was not written with the idea of fooling anyone. F”

        • Zap,

          I have admiration for the way you defend your ideas. JDA, Seeker, Pina, Ken, Aaron, are many the searchers …

          I can not give too many guesses because I did not consider the ATFs in my solution.

          I use ATFs only as additional post-resolution information.

          So, sorry to have to disappoint you.

          My argument is quite simple:

          What if you only had the poem and the book? “Nothing else.”

          Without any hint of FF, not even knowing who he is, what would you do?

          Would not you read the poem, obeying the basic grammar and the only two legitimate tips from the book: “Treasure in the mountains north of Santa Fe” and “are there nine clues in the poem”?

          If your life depended on finding the chest, would you risk altering “anything” in the poem that could alter the final result and put your life at risk?

          Pauses in the “vocal reading” of a poem are used “with” or “without” commas or periods. “Any” poem is read like that!

          I think in a simple way. Like someone who found the book forgotten in a library.

          However simplicity does not mean naivety. I use a lot of cunning when I read the poem or some ATF.

          And I consider you a brilliant mind, especially when I had doubts.

          I hope the crow taste is not as bad as it sounds.

          • McB – The majority of people think that the only meaning of a comma is a pause while reading. Thats why they are stumped and that is likely why Forrest used a poem instead of simple written text.

            That is (and will continue to be) their downfall.

        • Zap. Listen close… I will type slow.

          I did NOT change the poem. I did not critisize F, in fact I did the opposite. I did not ADD or REMOVE punctuation.

          ALL I am doing is reading the poem as FORREST wrote it.

          If you think that “halt and take” do not apply to the waters, then YOU are adding punctuation that doesn’t exist.

          Forrest might misuse punctuation, but in this case THERE IS NONE on line 5. So, why on Earth are you adding punctuation? Are you Forrest? Why not read it as Forrest wrote it? Why twist it to fit your solve instead of reading it properly?

          Seriously man, it makes ZERO sense.

          Clearly the poem is meant to be read EXACTLY as he punctuated it. So why are you changing it?

          Do you believe that none of the punctuation matters? Really? Then why did he put it in there?

          We have a treasure hunt based on English text, it is important that we read it the way Forrest wrote it, and that is NOT up for interpretation. “Halt and Take” both apply to the waters, that is a fact, it is based exactly on how he wrote it.

          Why are you looking for commas where he did not put them?

        • McB: thanks for your long reply, and also for putting a face to your name!

          “I have admiration for the way you defend your ideas.”

          I don’t get overly enamored with any of my ideas (except for WWWH, which is cast in stone), and I consider myself a poem-purist first. Sure, I’ll take any extra information Forrest wants to dish out, but not as source material. My past solutions came strictly from the poem and maps; the books provided confirmation bias, but were of no real use in actually *solving* the clues. The ATF comments have also provided ample “hints,” but their main use has been in shooting down flawed ideas.

          “I use ATFs only as additional post-resolution information.”

          That’s fine, McB — that’s their main area of helpfulness. But the hints can occasionally be quite funny (IMO).

          “My argument is quite simple: What if you only had the poem and the book? “Nothing else.”

          Then, it’s unsolvable. The right map is essential, unless you have a photographic memory of the entire 4-state area. IMO, the answers to at least some of the clues involve proper names that a searcher will only find on detailed maps.

          “Would not you read the poem, obeying the basic grammar and the only two legitimate tips from the book: “Treasure in the mountains north of Santa Fe” and “are there nine clues in the poem”?”

          Sure, but I would not get hung up on whether a comma appeared or didn’t appear at the end of a line. It’s a poem, not prose; comma rules are suspended, and Forrest is free to use them or not as his fancy dictates. e.e. cummings famously eschewed most capitalization in the first words of poem lines. After all, who says the first letter of a line of poetry must be capitalized? It’s a convention. Perhaps one of the reasons Forrest’s challenge was posed in the form of a poem was that it provided him the freedom to express himself without all the punctuation baggage.

          “If your life depended on finding the chest, would you risk altering “anything” in the poem that could alter the final result and put your life at risk?”

          I don’t alter a thing in the poem. I don’t move a single letter, or add or subtract anything. I don’t replace words with synonyms, move stanzas around, or add or subtract punctuation. My solutions depend on it being EXACTLY as written — to include the spacing between stanzas. And I absolutely refuse to consult a dictionary. If critical word information is not found in the common lexicon, in my opinion it is “special knowledge.” Now, your case is different, English being non-native to you. But you don’t need to consult the Oxford English Dictionary to find obscure 14th century alternative word definitions. Forrest is from Texas — he’s a straight shooter, and his words are country-spoken.

          • Zap,
            In all honesty… you asked me how I can say you’re “target fixated” I didn’t respond. I’ll answer it here with your own words;
            ‘And I absolutely refuse to consult a dictionary. If critical word information is not found in the common lexicon, in my opinion it is “special knowledge.”’
            I don’t get overly enamored with any of my ideas (except for WWWH, which is cast in stone).

            You already know my response to Meanings and Usages of words… I’m not going to post all of fenn’s comments telling us what ‘he’ did, again.
            But How can you explain looking up a word, or phrasing of words as “special knowledge”?

            Yet, when you say your WWH is cast in stone… and still have had [ how many searches using the same reference? ] come up empty handed. That is target fixated. You can’t come to terms with the possibility… the stone might be harden mud.

            I’m also curious how ‘you’ learned words and word phrases like;
            enamored { could you say, infatuated with, and dumb it down for us who look up words }
            post-resolution information { ok, I get it }
            cummings famously eschewed { Um, I’ll refrain commenting on this one }
            It’s a convention { are we going to a meeting?}
            common lexicon { that one I had to look up }

            Did it all come natural to your environment [country spoken]? Or did you ‘learn’ them?
            By the way, when you look at a map… how do you know what your looking at… did it come natural as well? LOL most driver don’t know the difference between this====== and this——–.
            [ that’s the best I could do with a computer, because I’m computer illiterate]

          • Hi Seeker: if by “target-fixated” you were specifically referring to my unwillingness to abandon my WWWH, then I will accept the charge leveled. In my defense, if WWWH is not only “nail-downable,” it is a necessity to do so (according to Fenn), does it not stand to reason that a few searchers have done exactly that? Clearly a number of searchers have solved the first two clues; is it so impossible that I’m one of them?

            You asked how I could explain looking up a word as “special knowledge”? I wasn’t referring to looking up a word with which a searcher was unfamiliar, like tarry or scant. What I was railing against was the idea that hidden deep in the OEM or some equivalent tome, was a secret, ancient meaning to a word or phrase that was critical to solving Forrest’s poem. THAT would be special knowledge. To me, it would be no different than having to know something — anything — about Joseph Meek or Molly Brown, just because meek and Brown are in the poem.

            “I’m also curious how ‘you’ learned words and word phrases like;
            enamored { could you say, infatuated with, and dumb it down for us who look up words } …”

            I consider both enamored and infatuated pretty basic English, so given the choice between the two, I don’t know that I would have chosen differently if I thought one was more commonly understood. I take your point on eschewed — frankly it was the first word that popped into my head, but shunned would have worked as well.

            What I’ve been trying to emphasize is that Forrest’s poem isn’t an S.A.T. test. The poem uses simple words, and I believe they are used without subterfuge. They mean what they say. But anything taken out of context can be misunderstood. With the Chase, the map IS the context. If you have the wrong map, the words will be misinterpreted. Even if you have the right map, the words can still be misinterpreted.

          • Zap ~’The poem uses simple words, and I believe they are used without subterfuge.’

            And back to my point… I’m not saying fenn is trying to fool the reader, but he made the poem difficult so it was not easy. Part of which fenn himself says he looked up words and changed to poem wording to get it just right. Now, unless there is count of words etc. line of thinking involved with solving this… meanings and usages of the words is the most obvious way to make everyday words not everyday usage.
            ~[Wordsmith, look up several… and see how many of us don’t know the words we use every day][ I {fenn} looked up words, definitions of words, change them, rebooted, it {the poem} came out exactly as i wanted] ~just two examples we have been told of fenn’s process.

            I use “Take It In” [more than often] as my example, because it involves the first clue… the one needing nailing down. To take something in as to view it, is a very common term, only you believe it can’t be. IF it was, your solve could fail straight off. Hence, you believe you have the correct WWH so your “take it in” must be a movement. { target fixated }

            It doesn’t matter who’s right or wrong, between you and me, That is just what we see in our own eyes, and we’re just BSing our thoughts… But when put into actual use [ a search, and more than one ] is the same location, using the same reference… A belief doesn’t seem to be cutting the mustard. The theory isn’t working and not passing the test.
            So this is what I see and hear from you;
            The clues get harder… when fenn says pretty much the opposite.
            You have long distances and advocate driving between clues… fenn implies he walked. [ in many of his comments of what he did ]
            You say go in the canyon down or drive… yet fenn’s made as comment while answering a question say; an 80yr isn’t going down and up and down a canyon…
            You say you don’t really need to be at clue 1 and can start a physical search at later clues… fenn said he followed the clues…. you say he didn’t say ‘all’ the clues.
            You imply almost the opposite of what fenn has implied… because your fixated on a wwwh that has not produce an outcome of a find.., Then say something to the affect; it’s a must to have more than one search to solve this…
            *** just a small and quick summery of conversation, here on the blog.

            To believe a the first clue is nailed down, don’t you need to be able to confirm it by fenn’s “straight shooting” answers and comments? But in almost every case you are opposite of those ATF… because your target fixated with your WWH, that as only produce failed results.

            It’s just what I see and hear and the reason for debating the information we have [with other that are in the challenge]; is an attempt to avoid some false hopes… when they don’t pan out, again and again.

            Sure sure, I get the idea Edison failed two hundred before he got it right, line of thinking. But Edison didn’t have anything else to do but fail, to get it right. That is trail and error and process of eliminations experiments…

            But not using information, or doing the implied opposite, from someone who already invented the blueprint of the light-bulb, will more than likely, never see the light.
            Ha! Although Tesla might argue the “opposite” part. AC/DC… no, not the band… the other thing.

          • Zap,

            Ah, maps of course.

            I forgot to mention “maps” in my argument.

            Sorry ; )

            Without them there is no solution.

          • Zap – If you do not believe that “warm waters” are what “halt and take”, then you are altering the poem to force it to fit your solve. You are adding imaginary commas.

            You can complain all you want, but it does not change the fact that you are not reading English properly. That is a big shame since the poem is in English.

          • Afternoon, Seeker.

            “And back to my point… I’m not saying fenn is trying to fool the reader, but he made the poem difficult so it was not easy. Part of which fenn himself says he looked up words and changed to poem wording to get it just right.”

            Ahh, but where we differ is in Forrest’s motivation for looking up the words. You believe that the poem’s difficulty comes from correctly interpreting the *meaning* of its words. Or put differently, if you have the wrong context, you won’t extract the correct meaning.

            My explanation for why he looked up words is different, as you know: layering. Steganography. To hide a message in plain sight, you need the right letters. By choosing the words of his “in the clear” message carefully, he could supply the letters he wanted. Mind you, this is not easy to make happen. In my opinion, this is why Forrest says he worked at it so long … felt like an architect … looked up words meanings and usages … rebooted several times. He needed the right Scrabble tiles.

            Now, it’s very hard to do that without some negative consequences. You end up with some awkward wording here and there, and in one case it cost him the rhyming. (“I was limited in my ability.”) But all in all, it looks rather innocuous, and I would say it was a smashing success seeing as how so few people have picked up on it.

            Skipping ahead a bit into your message:

            “You have long distances and advocate driving between clues… fenn implies he walked.”

            I do NOT have long distances. My distance from beginning to end is minuscule compared to the distances other searchers mention. I could easily walk the whole thing.

            “You say go in the canyon down or drive… yet fenn’s made as comment while answering a question say; an 80yr isn’t going down and up and down a canyon…”

            ALL my clues are IN the canyon. There is no going up and down the canyon walls.

            “You say you don’t really need to be at clue 1 and can start a physical search at later clues…”

            Yes. But even so, I will encounter ALL the clues in the course of getting to the point where I start walking.

            “fenn said he followed the clues….”

            Just as I do. I just don’t follow all the clues twice. You keep harping on my unwillingness to alter my WWWH on the grounds that it hasn’t borne fruit and therefore must be wrong. But I keep reminding you that people solved WWWH over 5 years ago, and none of them have found it either. They’re all there at the right starting point, but they’re going right past the next 7 clues (in most cases). How do you reconcile that fact with Forrest’s opinion that the clues get progressively easier?

            I know what you’re going to say: that they didn’t know they had solved WWWH. I say they must have had a pretty good idea for multiple parties to keep showing up at the right place.

          • Zap –

            “How do you reconcile that fact with Forrest’s opinion that the clues get progressively easier?” you ask

            The answer my friend is simple.
            YOU and THEY complicate the solution. You/They move right past the other seven on your way to 2 or 3 depending on which party we are discussing.

            How can I explain this. My wife has 8 Eremurus in a garden. From no point can you see the 8. You can only see 7 from any single vantage point. So does she have 8? or only 7? Do you know how Forrest would answer?

            I am talking abut the backside of the mirror. Forrest’s favorite phrase ‘It doesn’t matter who you are, only who they think you are’ means something wholly different to Doc Holiday than it does to PT Barnum.


          • Lugnutz: there was nothing complicated about my most recent solution. It was simple, elegant, and crafty. If WWWH was colocated with the treasure (as you and Seeker are implying), it would have been found five years ago. The nine clues are not colocated with one another, but nor do they span 10 miles or more, IMO. How do we know the clues aren’t all on top of one another? ATF remarks:

            “Thanks Ron, thoughtful questions. The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did.”

            Places plural, not singular.

          • Zap,
            Is a place you eat at, not a place? or sleep at, or relax at, or even park you car at, not places themselves, yet all in one place.. your home?
            The same scale setting can be involved with the clues… it’s all about perception. Ya know, like a mud puddle to an ant looks like an ocean, or canyons can be on the palm of your hand.

            You said ~’If WWH was colocated with the treasure (as you and Seeker are implying), it would have been found five years ago.’

            Well, Nope, not if everyone thinks the same as you’re thinking. Which is a very likely thought when folks can’t consider a canyon to be anything else but a huge cutout of land or a creek must be flowing water and not considered a narrow passage way, HL has to mean weight, or wood must be woods… and halt can only mean stop…. and on and on.

            Q~ Why did searchers quit? [ close enough for horses]
            A~ They didn’t quit, they left the poem.

          • Seeker: I agree that it’s a matter of perception. If you are looking at a map of the Rockies, the clues are all atop each other. If you’re looking at a map of the correct state, they’re still on top of each other. But at some scale, the clue places diverge from one another; you and I simply disagree on that scale.

            I would venture (based on anecdotal evidence of posted solutions) that my scale is smaller than that of 95% of searchers. So from the standpoint of relativism, you, Lugnutz and I are all in the 5% camp.

            I’m sure you don’t believe that the chest is within 10 feet of WWWH (else, easily found by accident by a WWWH solver). You probably conclude that Indulgence is at least 100 feet from WWWH (based on Forrest’s 200’/500′ distinction), so we’re that much closer to being in agreement with one another. You shouldn’t assume I’m like all the other searchers that went racing down the road looking for home of Brown. I am not in that camp.

          • It still falls to perception, no matter the size.
            Another comment is; marry the clues to a place on a map. Sure it can mean individual clue to a place or all the clues in one place. Even the word place can be perceived as something large or small… What is needed is a comparison.

            But you said we disagree, well that fair to say for this discussion, but not truly correct. I’ve had theories of the entire CD is size narrowing down to a location on it. And one that covered a large area of time.The difference between us is, I can see the poem read differently than the norm and you have only one WWH to work off of and never will consider another [ your words ].

            I would like to think that expanding the possibilities and asking the WhatIF’s would be a better venue than sitting on a possible wrong conclusion… that has not panned out.. be it by thought or action. But the kicker is, and will be, is not what we think… it’s more about how searchers still can indicate the clue or clues [even in the correct order and up to almost 1/2 the poem] and still not know… even on site… as far as we are told of to date.

            So when you stated one ATF to places, I came back with another. we just can’t use on or the other… or dismiss other comments like searcher left the poem. If all the comments are meant as physical places, a physical place and searcher leaving the places within the physical place.. the place could be less than a single mile or even 1000′.
            But its hard to fathom searchers all getting to a starting point and all traveling any larger distances to get to the same spot the chest is near on only two correct clues… there must be a third clue known of, for that distance to be covered by more more a few to exactly the same 500′ or 200′ spot/place.

            So I’m leaning at looking at the poem with those eye, as find the location, work the clues is a short distance… and attempting to stay with in the parameters of what fenn claimed he did.

            [as I see it being done] Less than as few miles of walking, for a total of two round trips[ or possibly two trips to the hide and one trip for returning tot the car for the second load ] all done in 1/2 day at the most, six hours of good sunlight.

            But what really flips me is your “knowing” wwh is correct. Yet others have gone from the first clue to the chest location and they got their ‘apparently’ not being sure of anything. I would think if that can be done… Knowing WWH should have got you to the chest by now.

          • Seeker:

            “But you said we disagree, well that fair to say for this discussion, but not truly correct. I’ve had theories of the entire CD is size narrowing down to a location on it. And one that covered a large area of time.”

            Yes, but I was posting in response to your more contemporary opinions about the geographical scope of the clues.

            “The difference between us is, I can see the poem read differently than the norm and you have only one WWH to work off of and never will consider another [ your words ].”

            I consider it a personal triumph to have nailed down a WWWH with such certainty that I don’t even think about it. Forrest said we have to nail it down, otherwise we’re wasting our time and shouldn’t spend time/money searching. So where’s the disconnect? Forrest implies that it is not only possible to figure out WWWH — it is essential. In my opinion, I’ve done that.

            “I would like to think that expanding the possibilities and asking the WhatIF’s would be a better venue than sitting on a possible wrong conclusion…”

            If one perpetually questions everything, they’ll never make any progress. Look, these trips aren’t cheap for me, and this isn’t my first rodeo as far as solving armchair treasure hunts. I don’t have the luxury of making weekend trips involving half-day drives — every attempt is a 4-digit-dollar affair (as it would be for you). I don’t invest that kind of money on a whim and a prayer.

            “But its hard to fathom searchers all getting to a starting point and all traveling any larger distances to get to the same spot the chest is near on only two correct clues… there must be a third clue known of, for that distance to be covered by more more a few to exactly the same 500′ or 200′ spot/place.”

            In my area, it is not surprising at all: the geography forces it. If you get to WWWH (by the only road that will take you), I think the mere act of arriving there brings you (and everyone else) within 500 feet of the chest’s location at some point of your journey. And also in my area, there are geographical conditions that prevent said people from getting any closer than 200 feet. Only by following a poem-prescribed route could one get closer than that.

          • FF made a difficult poem, but “so” difficult, that after understanding the poem the searcher no longer needs the poem.

            Just take a lot of attention to “all” ATFs, you can find the chest “without need of the poem”, so simple is the search.

            IMO of course!

          • Zap,

            I am so impressed with your WWWH certainty that I wish I could have your confidence to apply my solution and your area to help you.

            I had a partner at BOTG in my area of research to know the geographic aspects of the area. I’m convinced I’m in the right area.

            But, curious with his conviction.

            Excuse me for my arrogance.

    • Aaron,
      What’s really funny is, there’s a Q&A about punctuation and misspelling words as useful or not to the solve. fenn has also made the comment about teachers e-mailing him before, about the same subject. Also talked about his editor, with the last book, and the same problems, um, problems?
      But no matter what is said or implied there will always be a debate… Mainly because so many think their wwwh can not be wrong. Even after many attempts [physical searches] with the same reference… It still has to be correct.
      The same thing happen when fenn said , WWH is not a dam dam… and that debate is still going on as well, with some.

      Well, in the words of Bowie and Jagger “summer’s here and the time is right for dancing in the street” ~ Metaphorically Hopeful.

    • Aaron…I believe that Fenn loves to stir things up any time he can do so and not give specifics in any direction. This makes for the never-ending debates. To, me, it, is, fairly, clear, that, Fenn, is, giving, the, nod, to, the, idea, that, the, commas, are, not, crucial, to, deciphering, the, clues. For those that believe otherwise…that is just fine…they should not take the hard line and pose their premise as FACT when it is clear that Fenn has offered many comments that contradict this idea. It should be also fairly obvious that either position on this subject has in reality been fruitless for either…
      As a side note to this subject….I believe listening to the author recite the poem IS important. If he is not being “misleading”…why would he change up the supposed importance of punctuation while reading the poem? He wrote it…architected it…worked on it for years. Be it as it may…this topic is actually pointless.

          • yeah seeker…it does. Sometimes it is wiser to just move along and not poke the hornets nest. I was never one to practice that in everyday life…but this is a blog. I’ll move along….

          • In Real Time…I usually end up smashing it when necessary! I’ve chased those buggers here in the past. Folks who heckle the rest for months with endless posts about their upcoming books and exercise routines to look good for the cameras when their imminent upcoming retrieval happens(which never does). The incessant fact pushers fall in that category as well…but alas…my goal is to continue working to remain objective and ready to adjust as more info comes to light. Awfully dark in here…not much light…
            carry on soldier.

          • But, there is something there, ah, there is!

            Someone said something relevant to the discovery of the chest. And that involved the commas!

        • Shhh…. Don’t tell them, they will never figure it out! ken won’t for sure.

      • I agree that FF does like to keep us talking. It seems like he was trying to clarify how he felt about commas but when everyone has different thoughts on what he means it’s like poking a bear.

        You make a great point about listening to his reading of the poem. His pauses during the reading are what I prefer to pay attention to more than the commas.

  31. All of us must take the necessary steps to solve the poem and find the treasure. This scrapbook solidifies a hint I have seen in one of the drawings in one of his books.

  32. We need a post about contractions now.

    Does “it’s” mean “it is” or “it has”?

    Answer: It can mean both. Is there a difference?

    Good luck with that one! LOL

    • Made this point a while back, too, Wy. “…it is no place for the meek” reads a little deferentially than “…it has no place for the meek”. IMO of course.

      • It is different. Let the brain surgeons figure it out for themselves. They gather in the canyons! hehe

    • The semicolon is just for looks Dave, ignore it. Hey, maybe folks can add periods at the end of each line 🙂 Hell, if they can’t solve the poem, they alter the poem meaning to fit their solve. Gee, I wonder why it hasn’t been found!

      Forrest sprinkled commas only at the end of some lines, they looked cute there. In some cases they are ghosted out, for example on line 1 and 5. We can’t see the commas there, Forrest used invisible ink so lets just pretend they exist 😀

      Rock on

  33. Defiantly ALL about Punchuation (Did you see what I did there :)) ………..Dont mess with my poem!

  34. I may retitle this article “Folk Heroes Volume ΩΩ ”

    I think maybe the irony of this ‘full circle’ scrapbook it that F grew up to talk just like Dizzy. (Who ended his education in second grade and wasnt so great at the first, either….yet grew up to be commended for his imaginative vocabulary and invented words.) I have a feeling Forrest learned a lot that day 😉 This New York Times article presents it nicely:

  35. well if that is not a dead giveaway for tower junction in Yellowstone, I don’t know what it is!

  36. Clearly, this story is alluding to JDA (who originally went by JD) who Forrest would know would be out searching today — the first day of summer. JD … Jerome Dean. 😉

  37. Let us not overlook that after all this time we finally get an example of what an “aberration” is. According to Forrest, an aberration is walking along your merry way and hearing a voice from nowhere, might be a ghost, might be God himself, boom forth the words:

    “He kid they got any cold beer around here?”


    • Homer: “Beer: the cause of … and solution to … all of life’s problems.”

      First J. (Jerome) D. Salinger on the cover of Time Magazine, now Jerome Herman Dean. A pair of JDs, and Time in the trash.

    • A final note on this silly comma business, since it blends seamlessly with the Jerome Dean / Jerome D. Salinger comment I made above. If you haven’t read “Catcher in the Rye” recently (or at all), I call your attention to Chapter 4. Holden’s roommate, Stradlater, is shaving and asks Holden to write him an English composition that’s due in a couple days:

      “How ’bout writing a composition for me, for English? I’ll be UP THE CREEK if I don’t get the god*** thing in by Monday, the reason I ask. How ’bout it?”

      Got your attention yet? For today’s topic, it gets better:

      “Just don’t do it too good, is all,” he said. “That sonuvab**** Hartzell thinks you’re a hot-shot in English, and he knows you’re my roommate. So I mean don’t stick all the commas and stuff in the right place.”

      If you haven’t read Catcher, you’re in for some serious deja vu if you are well-read on Fenn.

      • Zap: Catcher in the Ray has been one of my favorite books since my teens… the way you are responding to some quite offensive partly insulting verbal attacks, especially here, in this thread, impresses me! Good thinking and great diplomatic touch!
        You are definitely not one of the whisperers but my guess is you are on a good path! Keep it up and if you think your WWWH is cast in stone, go on following it! People underestimate the complexity of each single clue, and that could be the reason why many had parts of the correct solve in their hands but dismissed it too fast!

        In my very own solution there was nothing left to do but sit down near the last clue I had found, lean back against a tree and think and watch and daydream and think again. I had this moment at several places but never dismissed my general solve. Here‘s to patient searchers like you, Zap!

        Good luck and all the best, TLo

        • TLo: thanks for chiming in. Much appreciated. I had to stay home from work today (back spasms), and I fear I didn’t help my condition by reading and replying to posts today. Yours at least allows me to end on a high-note. As I call it a night, may you enjoy your Friday morning 9 timezones ahead of me!

          • Zap…Don’t let it bother you. You’ve been around long enough to know that there will always be differences of opinions. Often times…as you know…it is better to let it go.

          • Also…there are many other connections in the Important Lit. that I believe are relevant to how Fenn iterates his stories. Are they all important? Some I believe may hold info that helps understand how Fenn conveys his message/s. The truth in all of this remains to be seen…and not being able to properly “adjust” because of rigid thoughts is probably unwise….

        • Ha! Jeremy,
          I went in a direction theory. A quick[ly] summary;

          Start in winter and head south, fly don’t walk [metaphorically] put in [ land at ] hoB. [ WFOTG ~web feet on the ground] etc etc. Look [ duck ] quickly down…

          I just laughed at my theory, it Quack me up so much!

          Hey! it was better than an outhouse….

        • BadgeR: you’re right, of course: etched or carved in stone, not cast. But I liked that there was a novel of that title by G. M. Ford. 😉

          • im just having fun. im not familiar with the title you mentioned.
            i can add that the rocks in the canyon where the treasure is hidden not only like to think that they look like gold but they very much resemble concrete….

          • Zap,

            Can you tell me which word you are referring to (defined as to carve, etched). I know it is the definition of a word I looked up, but for the life of me can’t find it in my notes.

    • Jeremy,
      Another little ‘something different’
      Hey ‘kid’ got any cold beer around? In 1955 fenn was 25, already in 5 yrs in the service, and if I’m not mistaken, 6′ plus?… Dizzy was 45, and fenn drank a soda with his idol and “…along with the ageless Satchel Paige who famously said “How old would I be if I didn’t know how old I wuz?”

      I’m not from the era, But was not far behind either… but I’m not sure I would call a 6′ – 25 yr old lookin guy, kid.
      But do remember a six-pack cost about 4.50 when I was 25.
      Now I know how old I feel…

      • I think this is a good example of the different approaches that searchers take.

        One type of searcher is out there trying to determine if all the dates match up so they can proudly declare that the story [could have/couldn’t have] happened as described. I don’t see any point in that. I’ve mentioned that it’s helpful to reject “things that don’t matter”. Finding that a story is, or isn’t, historically accurate is like a vision without revelation. It doesn’t add anything meaningful.

        I prefer to look at the story, any story, as a story. What’s the story about, what the plot, that sort of thing.

        I’m not saying this is an accurate reading of the story, but such an approach my conclude that the beer is green.

        How’s that?

        Well, here you have themes of a benevolent sage up a ladder, up in the sky, a voice from heaven towards which our hero climbs to share a beer with. It’s no stretch at all to see a metaphor there.

        What color is the beer? Red, black, or green? It’s green.

        This is probably the wrong takeaway from this story. I’m just sayin’ it’s more fun to look at things that way.

        • Good read of the possibilities- I would still maintain that if f is very circumstantial about something that turns out to be-ah- inaccurate, then we should probably pay attention-

        • Hello Jeremy P.. Do you look for aberrations in stories? Not sure if I’m asking the question correctly, but hope you’ll understand.

          • Thanks for asking, pdenver!

            I believe that it was the intent of the author that The Thrill of the Chase would contain everything needed to find the treasure chest. I believe he spent as much time in making sure it was all there, as he did in hiding it all in there — well maybe a little more time on the hiding 🙂 I think he was of the sincere belief that you could find the treasure chest with just the book. So, yeah, I’m ALL over those stories.

            I’ll even give an example. In My War For Me, Forrest says the plane he was shot down in was a F-100D. In an earlier version of the story, shared years before the book was published, he said it was a F-100C. This isn’t someone else misquoting him, *he* made that change. So I wonder why. I spend a great deal of time wondering about things like that. Was he just correcting faulty memory? Is there another reason for the change? Is it relevant? What, historically, was the correct model? That’s just one tiny little thing to obsess over. I’ll go back and forth on things like that until one day I’ll just commit. I’ll pick from the possibilities something that seems the most likely and I’ll never concern myself with it again if it’s not relevant (An independent, well-researched book about the Super Sabre also has it as a F-100D, so balance of probability has it that he was correcting faulty memory). Things I actually think are hints, geeze, I look at those things from all sorts of angles and it drags out for a long, long time…

            Scrapbooks, interviews, weekly words, featured questions, that’s totally a different story. That’s all tainted material. He gets so many emails from so many people that even if he’s never been to a place he’s probably got an email from a searcher all about it. He knows every nook and cranny of where you’re searching. He knows all your ideas. What you may think is an original thought, he’s probably got a dozen emails about that exact same thing. I don’t really consider it reliable if something’s echoed back to you. It’s probably not a real echo anyway. I try really hard not to focus on things like that.

            That said, yeah, I believe there’s some aberrations in there, and my standards for saying that (on this after-the-fact material) is pretty high. I think a lot of the stories he shares are just him sharing his life with us, which is pretty awesome and I appreciate those. He doesn’t have to (I often wonder how he decides what to share, what criteria he uses for that — he doesn’t share everything).

            There are some messages that I don’t get at all, but they’re clearly and intentionally saying something beyond the surface value of the story. I find it easy to see some as inside jokes between himself and himself, or between himself and who knows who else.

            There are some that are clearly about the treasure hunt, and clearly meant as supplemental material (if you don’t think so — you’re the aberration).

            In all of these you have to be highly suspicious — not of Forrest, but of yourself and your own wishful thinking.

            They are there, though.

          • Good article, Pdenver. You have a quiet way about you, but I sure don’t underestimate you.

          • Hello Blubelle117. I find it difficult to find aberrations, but believe there may be some. Don’t give up.

          • Thanks pdenver for the enjoyable share. And I also wonder about your good friend SL.

        • A wise deduction, Jeremy.
          My post wasn’t really meant as a WhatIf, idea… and more inline with; as you said… different approaches we each see. And almost all, have to see something, right? there must be something to see, right?

          Whether or not there are hints, clues, information secreted in the story or not… I find it interesting that the majority has to make a story something other than just a memory shared… and maybe a little lesson from the story to learn from.. not about the chase or the challenge… just a moral of the story style interjection.

          Fenn could have left out the comma’s to see IF anyone noticed at all and not say anything about them… but he add to the story, by telling us he removed the comma’s ‘deliberately and felt good about it.’
          I think most might be missing his intent, by doing what we all love to do… dig for bones, rather than just ‘taking it in’…

          lol, See what I did there? take…taking…it…in… lol.

          • Hey Seeker – I read your observations and thought, “Right on!” It seems rather far-fetched that someone would call a 25-year old, 6′ tall, military man, “kid”. And I have to disagree with Jeremy, whose opinion I respect very much. The fact that the story seems far-fetched is probably an indicator that there is more going on here than meets the eye.
            And may I also say that I think, in general, your observations are pretty good.

        • Not so much a voice from heaven; what he saw caught my attention rather than what he heard.
          Is he taking the place of a searcher?

          I tend to read his stories and look for hints for simple entertainment if for no other reason, then I tend to discount the hints I find since they always seem to conveniently fit what I already think.

          If his stories do contain hints there is likely hundreds of rabbits to go chase for each real hint.

          I do wonder about Dr Pepper, he goes out of his way to mention it in several stories.

          Jax was my dad’s beer when I was a kid. Brings back memories.

          • I’m 55 and I think of anybody under 30 as a kid. All military look young to me. Or maybe dizzy called everybody kid. Babe Ruth did that.

        • is it satchel paige im thinking? maybe not. theres like three of them (supposedly) and one was left to a church in a safe deposit box recentlyish?

      • Seeker,
        I thought the same thing about the age & being called kid. What I found strange is that they were drinking while working, didn’t think that would be proper. I also believe the platform & ladder are odd, this was the Texas Open, they should have been in the press box , right? Maybe I’m digging but I find that behaviour odd for Texas in 1965.

        • In those days I don’t think they had press boxes at golf tournaments. Also I believe having a drink was allowed back then.

    • Shhhhh! endofthechase… that’s my backup plan. Haven’t ever heard of whispering-?- use your inside voice.

  38. “none of them were paying attention to me so I thought it must be an aberration”
    I’m buying

  39. I find it comical and irrelevant that people argue commas. Comas maybe, but not commas…whatever the heck that means.

    • Nobody is arguing. We are laughing at people who are placing commas in the poem that don’t exist. Why are people changing the poem?

      Forrest is laughing at the people in the canyon 😉

    • It blends in everywhere does the comma, thats why Boy George wrote the song!………………’Comma Comma Comma Comma Comma Chameleon’ 🙂

      Sorry guys, poor I know but lets lighten up on the commas eh! there is a box of gold out there somewhere.

          • I agree about the canyon . . . but a box of gold is a totally different matter. Having searched “within several steps” or “within a few steps” of where the poem directs, and not having found any compelling evidence of the TC ever having been there, I’m going to be searching for an “out” that FF might be thinking of using to explain that he never specifically said that he left the box of gold there.

            For example, the poem mentions “treasures new and
            old”. That, in and of itself, doesn’t have to specifically
            mean a box of gold, diamonds, etc.

            But talk is cheap. I don’t much feel like whining for a
            long time repeatedly on any blogs, in a “sour grapes”

            I spent hundreds of hours, thousands of dollars, and a
            lot of time in solving and searching. I took several long
            search trips, all of which had me hiking up the same real creek. I went to where an Eagle would land, and I left my footprints but not a flag.

            It wouldn’t be very productive for me to just complain. I would find little benefit and enjoyment in that.

            Good luck to all folks trying to solve the poem well
            enough to find the treasure . . . (see how I’m being
            vague here?) . . . I hope you all do derive pleasure from this hunt. IMO.

          • Correction: The poem talks about “treasures bold”, and
            “riches new and old”. IMO>

  40. Jmeils: I watch baseball, basketball (college only!), football, hockey, soccer and golf. On occasion, even lacrosse, rugby, Aussie rules football, cricket and curling. Each has its advantages and disadvantages as a spectator sport, but of the big four in the U.S., only one is even remotely affordable to attend in person for the average Jane and Joe: baseball. THAT is probably one of the biggest reasons it is popular. Hockey is the next most affordable. Try going to a Green Bay Packers or Chicago Bulls home game with a family of four. You’ll need to take out a second mortgage!

    • I suppose that’s true…I have been to a Dodger game and it was fun. I’m a tennis coach and huge fan of the sport…I guess I like to see more “action” and tennis & basketball provide that faster pace (IMO). Fed might be the most under appreciated athlete of all time.

      @Cholly…GC…that video is funny.

      • Lol, I got stuck in the women’s bathroom during the seventh inning stretch of a Dodger game. What can I say, a vendor was right in front of the “wo”, all I saw was “men”. 40 minutes of…. never mind.

    • When I planned to visit the Rams after one of my trips I made the big mistake to tell my two teammembers they are invited to join… when I held the three tickets in my hand my pockets were empty… hahaha… but it was a great day anyway!

    • Sitting ice level….priceless.

      Bowling’s cheap, unless you drink as much as I do. If you have to drink to be better, it’s not a sport, maybe that’s why I’m so good at it.:)

  41. Back when I was about 13 or 14 I worked for a guy named Felix DiFede. Fritz was a jolly little pot bellied Italian that stood about 5′ nothing and was about 60-ish at the time. He owned and operated DiFede’s Highway Market on Rt. 72 which sold a multitude of things from trees, plants, shrubs, apples, peaches, pears, plumbs, and tomato’s. From a bushel to a peck or simply by the pound, we sold it. Every week or so we would drive up to Benton Harbor Michigan to the farmer’s market to buy goods by the bulk(bushel, 1/2 bushel, peaches, apples, pears, you name it). Well, after loading his latest purchase of 20 bushels of apples onto the truck he said “I’ll bet you a dollar I can throw an apple farther than you can.” Knowing my chances of LOSING this easy-peasy bet was ZERO, I said “Sure thing Fritz!” Well, he said “you go first kid” so I pointed to a crack in the blacktop and said “you can’t go past that line!” because I just knew he was up to something! So I took 2 steps, a hop and a skip and let ‘er rip! My apple flew a good 200+ feet and splatted into a multitude of pieces on the blacktop. I was beaming inside and said “There ya go, BEAT THAT ONE FRITZ!” Well, this little Italian grabs his apple, takes a half a step as he leans over sideways and gives it a whip and a grunt! The damn thing ROLLED a good 100+ feet past my apple sauce! He said “you owe me a dollar”(which he never made me pay) and I said “NO WAY! YOU CHEATED!” Fritz was laughing and his belly was bouncing and he said “the bet was…I’ll bet you a dollar I can throw an apple farther than you can.” LESSON LEARNED! Think outside the box!
    Then there was Dave Egland(sp), a local gas station owner/operator. Back in the day when the gas station attendant washed your windows! Anyway one of his customers was bragging about how far he can hit a golf ball and Dave said “I’ll bet you 5 dollars I can hit a golf ball farther than you can.” The guy quickly said “you’re on, let’s do it!” Now the gas station was on Rt. 72 out in the country with nothing around but a creek about 300 yards out and then the Vets blacktop driveway about 200 yards up the hill past the creek. Well, Dave says “go ahead, I wanna see what I gotta beat.” This guy tee’s up his ball and CRUSHES IT! It landed just over the creek, a good 300+ yards out! He said with a smile, “your turn Dave!” Now Dave wasn’t a golfer. As a matter of fact I highly doubt if Dave ever played a round of golf in his life up to that point! But, a bet is a bet! So Dave walks to the garage area, grabs a baseball bat and returns. He grabs a golf ball, throws it up in the air and WHAAAPPP! Long story short, the golf ball landed on the Vet’s blacktop driveway a good 500+ yards away and bounced into his front yard. Dave says “you owe me 5 dollars” and the guy says “YOU CHEATED!” Dave reminded him that the bet was…”I’ll bet you 5 dollars I can hit a golf ball farther than you can.” LESSON LEARNED! Think before you act and don’t assume anything!

    It’s not always what you think you see in the artist’s painting but rather what the artist wants you to see in his painting.

    Mr. Fenn, you have rubbed shoulders with some of the greatest hearts on this planet! Lucky YOU! 🙂 It’s a good thing they stopped making Jax beer back in 1956 because right about now there would be a RUSH on by hundreds of thousands of people wanting to buy a 6-pack of Jax and a Dr. Pepper so they could somehow by chance, could live in the past, your past! And maybe, just maybe feel the euphoria that you felt on that Sunday afternoon. Congratulations FF! You win!

  42. Forrest, in the off chance that you read this, there are some of us that actually listen to you, especially the things you tell us over and over. Such as you telling us that you don’t always use commas “by the book” . Particularly when joining two sentences with the conjunction “and”. Who needs ’em. I leave them out all the time too. Doesn’t bother me a bit.

    • Why are you putting commas in the poem at places Forrest didn’t?

      I don’t think you know what a comma means.

      • I’m not putting any commas in the poem. I’m simply not using strict rules in interpreting the sentence simply because there is no comma. That seems like good advice given Forrest’s repeated statements about not following the rules with usage (or lack thereof) of commas.

        But I’ll admit that one possibility is that Forrest had a comma there and then took it out when he finished the poem (which could be his point in the scrapbook) because interpreting the sentence both with and without a comma is valid and it provides two sets of useful information.

  43. My only thought on this is: Did ‘Dizzy’ offer to pay Fenn back the $2? Or at least sign his hat or something?

  44. Wow, Forrest loves to have fun.

    When I was a boy my grandfather, who was a 5th grade teacher, taught me the word; sesquipedalian, which means, someone who uses a big word when a small one would suffice…

    This post focuses on the grammando topic which obviously, Forrest is having fun with.

    This is because Forrest is no sesquipedalian – he knows what another famous Forrest knows; Forrest Gump:

    “Stupid is as stupid does”

    The point in my grandfather teaching me that word was two fold because in a clever way he taught me with a single word that good communication is about actually communicating and this requires you to speak and write in a way that is the most appropriate for the audience.

    And much of the time simpler is better but sometimes good or specific word choices and/or grammar, more fully and trenchantly convey ideas.

    Anything more than this, is pretentious!

    Forrest isn’t a rube from a small town in Texas anymore but he isn’t a Santa Fe art snob either so even though he clearly knows a good deal about proper grammar now, he’s not compelled to use it, if not really necessary.

    He should be pleased with himself!

    Grammar in the poem is important but don’t let logic get in the way of the poem…


    • Don’t let his words of lack of education fool you, he is highly educated. He writes as his personality dictates him to write. If he followed the rules of grammar he simply would not be Forrest Fenn.

      • Forrest expects us to read the poem as written, this scrapbook is mocking those who do not heed that advice.

        Interesting quote by FF:

        “It is my prerogative as the writer to decide when I want the reader to pause, not the reader’s. f”

        That was in reference to commas from here:

        So we should not be reading the poem as if commas exist where they do not exist. Read the poem as it is written, adding or removing punctuation is altering the meaning of the poem. As a writer, Forrest has the ability to decide, as a reader we are obligated to read it as written.

        • Bottom line… the “waters” are what “halt and take”…

          Going down the canyon is not reading the poem as written.

          If your solve is taking line 6 to mean you should go down the canyon, your solve is wrong.

          Have a great day! It’s Friday!

          • WyMustIGo,

            This is appropriate given your online name Troy.

            Forrest goes back after writing this scrapbook and tell us he is criticized for using too many I’s & too many commas – so he goes back and purposely removes all the commas, knowing full well we are having a heavy discussion in the forums regarding the importance of punctuation.

            But all the while the true “hint,” isn’t the importance of punctuation but instead that in the poem we are meant to go back and take out the I’s instead…

            Why is it that I must go (so literally to begin figuring out the poem’s clues – remove the I’s and read what’s left.

            For example; “Begin it where” … becomes; “Begin t where … ” or

            Begin ‘X where warm waters halt
            And take ‘X ‘N the canyon down,
            Not far, but too far to walk.
            Put ‘N below the home of Brown.

            From there ‘X ‘S no place for the meek,
            The end ‘S ever draw’ng n’gh;

            or perhaps we are just supposed to take the I’s out of the ITs in the poem.

            Like; Why in IT that I must go…

            OK what do people think of this idea?

            Remember; “Everyone really does need an intersection; don’t they? Am I way out on that?


          • Hello GCG. Without “I’s,” one may be in total darkness. Do you apply the no “I” in the word “Begin”?

            This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

    • yup, even the way he uses slang words. Maybe we can figure when f actually hid the chest. From his use of the word “got”. Talk to everyone and they cannot answer what he means by hiding the chest 15 years after he got cancer. Most assume he got cancer when he was diagnosed in Jan 1988. So means he hid the chest in 2003. Cannot be, right. So most just let it go. But it’s important, because f said that it is too much of a clue. So we look at the word “got”. Just one simple word, and everything comes into perspective. That one word lines up everything to come out right, and even pulls in other thoughts and uses of words to arrive at the dates. In the end, still a guess, but it’s fun to see how “his” rules of grammar are actually from a well versed, educated, high school grad. I wish I was that “dumb”.

    • GCG,
      In the vein of sesquipedalian, another word that makes me chuckle is hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia which is the fear of long words. Making it a word that causes itself.

  45. Honestly, I was more frustrated by not closing up the parenthetical statement in the 4th paragraph than the lack of commas! 😉

    Maybe this story is a reference to Tower Fall rather than Tower Junction? I would think a Tower Fall is what Dizzy Dean would be subjected to after drinking a 6-pack of beer on top of an elevated platform! Dizzy Dean = Devil’s Den?

  46. 10-4. I wish I lived closer to your spot. I missed the one spot last time. Why is it always when I get home I reach these conclusions?

  47. If champagne and juice had a baby it would be called Kombucha. Try Boochcraft if you dare. Dizzy prolly would.

    • Fenn left out that it was 38-degree weather. And that Mike Souchak shot a 27-under-par 257, setting a PGA Tour record that stood for nearly 50 years.

  48. Interesting quote by FF:

    “It is my prerogative as the writer to decide when I want the reader to pause, not the reader’s. f”

    That was in reference to commas from here:

    So we should not be reading the poem as if commas exist where they do not exist. Read the poem as it is written, adding or removing punctuation is altering the meaning of the poem. As a writer, Forrest has the ability to decide, as a reader we are obligated to read it as written.

    • Hey Wy…We all heard you the first 45 times. This isn’t a contest to see who can say the same thing the most times. If no one agrees with you…who really cares…move on. So far…no one knows anything for sure.

      • Hey ken, make it 46 times. We’ve been listening to people read it wrong for 8 years.

        I’m only trying to help, and also put silly comments to rest. This isn’t up for debate, we know that for sure. There is only ONE way to read the poem correctly. Apparently people don’t understand that, which is fine, but they should bow out of a discussion that is beyond their ability to understand .

        BTW Ken, don’t like it, don’t read it. I pretty much ignore your posts too, never seen anything remotely new or earth shattering. Some are sheep, some are leaders.

        • Well Wy…your winter long project has been mind blowing to say the least. My kids figured all that crap out in a couple of days ! Truth be told….you don’t have ANY advantage over anyone else here…or anywhere. I like reading all ideas…even yours. Have a good day Wy and please try to get over yourself.

          • I’m sure you did.

            Where did I say I have an advantage? Don’t put words in my mouth.

            Just admit it ken, you can’t read English. It is fine, we won’t laugh too hard.

          • OK…Wyeinstein ! Tell us all how stupid and ignorant we all are….and how that is going to help YOU find Fenn’s treasure. Seriously…move along Troy. I suspect the joke is actually on you…you just don’t know it.

          • “Ken” (above) said “So far…no one knows anything for sure.”
            I don’t like seeing generalizations that are not true. So I
            posted a rebuttal, based on Descartes, with whom “Ken”
            is likely to be familiar.

  49. Raising my Dr Pepper up and saluting a very clever Mr. Fenn.

    CLearly Clueless

  50. I found this article, interesting. My solve is in an area that has two omegas, including a lone star, bulls, 2 bucks and a canyon. I plan to check this out. I live in FL. This will take some planning, like the “f” was left out and replaced. Correct, the Rio Grande, is not “in” the rockies. It, Flows parallel and southwest. I, doubt I could ride a bicycle to get there. However, I could try to when I did.. Oh, then I will enjoy a Dr. Pepper.

  51. So I’m am pretty bad with grammar… Would you say commas or comma’ s. Like to say “the comma’s changed the meaning of the whole sentence?”

  52. Mr Fenn,
    I’m convinced that all of the 3 fellers you mentioned above would agree with you and disagree with the punctuation police.

    Satchel Paige, the bravest of them, would probably say something like :
    Forrest, commas are a question of mind over matter. If you don’t mind, it doesn’t matter.

  53. “Now they have a new rule. You can’t throw at anyone. I never tried to kill a batter, but I liked to straighten them up once in a while.”

  54. Well, when I see the comma splices, which we all use so often, they are similar to run-on sentences because they incorrectly connect independent clauses. A comma splice occurs when two independent clauses are connected with “only” a comma. As with a run-on sentence, there are a few different ways to correct a comma splice. Two complete sentences,:; or, a corrupt use of a semicolon or even a colon?

    Comma splices can/also may be fixed three different ways:
    Add a coordinating conjunction (for, and, nor, but, or, yet, so) after the comma.
    Change the comma to semicolon.
    Change the comma to a period.

    ff has already done that step for us. Trust him. But, trying to understand him is harder still.??

    However, and perhaps the important question of the punctuation in our Poem seem much more in tune with a change of direction,:;! “Begin it where warm waters halt (no punctuation here) And take it in the canyon down, Not far, but too far to walk. period…….. Ask yourself why the direction after halt insists (no punctuation) that IT is one in the same spot, WWWH and Canyon Down, where are we are traveling, or are we stopped? It seems to have two distinct meanings, it as in the search and it as in the waters. Does the comma notify us to change direction or does ff furnish us a word like “Nigh”?

    There’ll be and is, a lot of discussion on that word, and what’s the mode of transportation, since we walk not? Do we float? Do we fly? Do we roll?

    So do we follow the words at times or the marker if the punctuation be the next directional cue to a clue?


    • I like your analysis TT.
      How about the change of tense, “I have gone” “I must go” ?

      I guess I’m getting off topic tho.

    • A bit of thought and it becomes clear why he did not put a comma there. It’s also clear why he used “halt and take” instead of “halts and takes”. Waters had to be plural. Why?

      I suppose we are getting way over the heads of some. I mean punctuation is complicated 🙂

          • The continental divide trail is hundreds of miles long. That would be a difficult way to pinpoint exactly where to start. WWWH refers to a very specific geographic feature on a map.

        • That would be impossible because I doubt you know where the chest is Eric. Besides, I have no need, the answers I already know.

          • Guys,

            Time is the father of reason, and reason does not belong to anyone.

            Time lends us only doubt, and doubt leads us to scrutiny.

            The scrutiny, given the necessary time, leads us at reason. Right or wrong, but reason.

  55. D is for Dean,
    The grammatical Diz,
    When they asked, Who’s the tops?
    Said correctly, I is.

  56. I believe that the poem is a map. The comas in the beginning give us a location. Ei: Someplace, Anywhere, This State. Next, is where to go, where,to start and what to do.

  57. I have been studying this poem and map for only a year. Now, some have been for years. Please, let us not mock one another, or belittle either. We have all come to our own conclusion to the resting place of the chest. So, until someone finds it and shows it to the world, we will never know. Someone, could go right straight to it. That would be the end, they wouldn’t tell a soul. Then what?

  58. Hi all. I decided to research “Soda” since ff said he was going to get a soda or something to that effect. thought are my train of thoughts.
    Sodalite, a mineral not a stone, different colors but usually royal blue. Found in Lewis and Clarke County in Montana.
    Sodalite means “Salt”, opposite of Pepper as in Dr Pepper.
    Indian meaning is “Mother Earth”, Blue Montana ” .. Big Sky ..Blue..equals Montana.
    Sodalite is called the “poet’s stone ” as it brings forth inspiration.
    Spiritual meanings include Truth..Healing..Possitive Energy. Helps disspell arguments between people as Helps to see people for their positive goodness.
    Notable people of Lewis and Clarke Co, MT…a famous baseball pitcher from early 1915?-1929? . First Serbian immigrant to pitch in Major. League and he also fought in France during WW1. He died at Ft Harrison VA hospital. In Lewis and Clarke Co, MT.
    Just seems ff wants to enjoy Possitive. Inner peace and be happy. .drink a Soda. Lol..Colleen

  59. Dizzy could have had anyone grab him a cold one and must of had a gut feeling about young Forrest. Dizzy probably talked to Forrest like he was one of his friends sitting on the porch drinking a beer and relaxing as friends do. What a special moment if Dizzy had only known who he was talking too maybe his gut did. I forgot the comma’s but at least I plugged in an apostrophe may not be worth anything maybe worth a beer anybody got a cold one?

    • I hear you on the where, but not the what to do part. Although, I do know what to do because it’s in the poem, so it doesn’t matter.

  60. Way way too much attention on the comma comment. IMO, punctuation and grammer is specialized knowledge, which he’s told us aint not necessary. I think his closing comment is calculated misdirection. He’s just messin with y’alls heads.

    Frankly, as a third generation Texan, I’m kinda surprised that he could even buy beer on a Sunday in this state in the 50s. Plus, if some borderline baptist biddies were heading home to make Sunday supper and saw him with a 6-pack of Jax, they’d’ve whooped his hide and told him his momma didn’t need to thank them, it was their pleasure.

    Also, I’ve concluded I’d’ve liked to have Forrest in my drinking group when it was my turn to pick up the tab. In the time it took Dizzy to finish six beers (while simultaneously providing live coverage of the tourney and carrying on his conversation with Forrest), Forrest didn’t even finish one bottle of Dr. Pepper. I’ve heard of ‘nursing a drink’ but that’s a whole lotta self control. I don’t think I’ve ever had a DP last more than ten minutes.

    Regardless, the SB is all about Slingin Sammy. This big circus is all about the Thrill. The one time in the SB that Forrest was thrilled is when he shook Sammy’s hand. (Not to digress — but Forrest was a bit of a sports fan, apparently, something I don’t draw out of TTOTC; he doesn’t talk at all about any ball, does he? Doesn’t sound like he tried to be a walk-on with the Aggies while pretending to be enrolled at A&M).

    Turns out ole Sammy had just started coaching over in Abilene in 1955, the year of the meeting with him and Diz.

    So TC must be in Abilene.

    or mehbe not….

    OK, I got nuthin…

      • ah, my bad — I was using ‘ball’ as synonym for ‘sports’ (i.e. foot-, basket-, base-). Reading TTOTC, I didn’t gather that he was a sports fan. Just an observation; don’t know that it offers any hint.

    • aardvarkbark ~ ‘IMO, punctuation and grammer is specialized knowledge,..’

      I agree… I would have had to stay wake for 12 years of English classes, to gain all that special knowledge. Who the heck would do that?

      Grammer… Grammar. Who needs it.
      By the way… does anyone know how fenn got is little nick name “wordsmith” I can’t find the source anywhere.

      Ya’ll have a great baptist day now, ya hear!!

  61. there has been about 3 stories about golf that I know of and I think there is something there if you think of the hole where you put in the golf ball – don’t know much about golf so that’s the best I can do

  62. “I climbed the ladder”. LADDER,LADDER,LADDER=SLOPE=BANK.
    Bank=The slope of land adjoining a body of water, especially adjoining a lake, river or sea.
    FF mentioned “climbing a ladder” in an email reply. The reply did not seem to fit the email which was sent to FF.
    Father on the Banco, “climbed up a steep bank”, “threw them about six feet up on top” (of the steep bank).
    I’m looking for the steep bank about 6 feet from the river.
    Good luck and stay safe.

    • Tarheel

      I have a steep six foot bank on the creek that bisects my property.

      It is steep for a reason.

      You see some days the water is just coating the surface and then some days it over tops what’s left of my lodgepole bridge.


  63. Well,

    I support the use of basic grammar used in the early years of school.

    I support “total” obedience to reading informative the poem.

    So, from what I see here the Indianas Jones say, I am a strong contender for the same result achieved by everyone at 8 years:

    “Do not find the chest.” “Come back empty handed.” “To have many excuses.” “Put the blame on chance.”


  64. “bunch of photographers recording me and Dizzy.”
    photographers taking me and Dizzy?
    snapping me and Dizzy?

    I think.

    • theres ladders on the bronze box goin straight up too.
      take a pitcher!
      and go.

      I think.

  65. Forrest,
    In 1955 that golf tournament must have been at the Brackenridge golf course I grew up just a few blocks from there, well a least, for a couple of years we lived there. The golf course was part of Brackenridge Park that included the Zoo, the paddle boats on the river, horse stables, the Witte Museum, the Japanese Sunken Gardens and the Alligator Garden as well as the large wooded park area. That was a great time in my life, I was eleven years old then, my brothers and I would sneak off and spend many hours roaming around investigating everything in the park. The Alligator Garden was our favorite, there was this on alligator with a hump on its back that we called the Humpback. What a wonderful time back then. Your story just brought this memory back to me. Thanks.

  66. What no commas? I feel like such a dinkus. Oh well, when I memorized it years ago I forgot to memorize the punctuation. Since then though I’ve memorized lots of punctuation. Hmmm, I wonder if it’s in the right places?

  67. TTOTC starts off by stating this.

    This memoir includes a true story about a ”secret treasure” and an outrageous dare.

    I submit to the treasure hunting community that Forrest is playing a game with you all and there are two treasure hunts. When Forrest mentions treasure he is talking about a tin box buried on private property containing a note. Rarely is Fenn talking about his bronze chest. Nowhere has Forrest said the poem will lead a person precisely to his treasure chest…the word used is treasure.

    Forrest Fenn slips up on the Today show. The treasure is higher than 7….5,000 feet. The slip up was intentional IMO, Santa Fe’s elevation is over 7,000 feet.

    The treasure is located more than 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe. Ok so we just said north and Santa, it should be obvious that we’re talking about Santa clause and the North Pole or are we talking about a pole north of….

    The treasure map says degrees show the declination of magnetic compass north from true map north.

    Ok so what’s UP with north? Well up is North according to my dictionary. The poem states there’ll be no paddle up your creak. A paddle is a pole and paddle can be anagrammed into ladder. Creak is a tree because trees creak. Also the treasure is associated with a tree but not with a structure.

    Totem poles serve as important illustrations of family lineage and the cultural heritage of the Native peoples in the ilands and coastal areas of North America’s Pacific Northwest, especially British Columbia, Canada, and coastal areas of Washington and southeastern Alaska in the United States.

    If you’ve been wise and found the blaze. Wise like an owl hoo or who. Who = what or which person. Forrest Identified Dizzy Deans face. Teresita Ferguson was identified!

    Look quickly down from the tree? If you’ll notice Dizzy Dean was waving with his arm/limb. He talked about a platform. Could the platform be a hunters perch for shooting deer. Also buck was used…that leads us to the idea of buck rub being the blaze or remember Fenn at 6 shooting his bow at the bear up a tree?

    Searchers have been 500ft from the treasure….another word for a searcher is a hunter.

  68. I’m sure as you’ll remember the Lakota trickster/caper is involved

    Frosty the ruler/measures POLEarity was questioned. We are talking deep range metal detectors here…ate the pie behind the tree PI pulse induction.

    Az I h(ave) gone alone in there
    Probably a back Azimuth

    a broad passageway bordered by trees

    Eric Sloane was weaving. The other picture has Sloane with a note in his fingers.

    Let’s talk Moses!

    It was interesting to see the sharp knife skillfully (whit)tle the (wood), which did little to resist the artist’s efforts. As the (face) of Moses began to appear, Leo’s smile took on a pleasing quality.

    In the following Forrest gets mail exchange a bizarre transaction takes place. IMO Bruce is Forrest asking himself the question. Much like a skilled ventriloquist Fenn manipulates at will.


    I have figured out there is no treasure. This is a medical study being done by Dr. Fenn concerning the use of riddles to help delay the effects of Alzheimers Disease.

    We are the case study to prove his theory that by doing riddles helps your ability to keep your mind healthy. This will soon be published in the PubMeds that are available to all doctors. The population at large will only get a brief overview of the complete study, which will more then likely not help much.

    Looking forward to receiving your memoir, researching has been a lot of fun for my son and me. He is very excited about our trip. Which I think will be in June for 2 weeks.

    I am concerned about one thing about the quest, should I carry a firearm (as laws permit)? Its more to do with safety with wildlife there, then protecting from other people. But I guess that wouldn’t be a bad idea either.

    Hope all is well


    I hid the treasure chest at the first onset of dementia. I knew I had a disease so I made myself a note that revealed the exact location because I wanted later on to give some additional clues. Now I don’t remember where I put the note. Maybe if I search my fishing box I can find what it is that I was looking for. But why would I want to fish in this weather? I’ll go ask my wife Phyllis where my tool kit is.

    And remember guys and gals “Yellowstone” is a gem.

  69. “There were lots of people milling but none of them were paying attention to me so I thought it must be an aberration.” Overlook?

  70. a lot of searchers think that look quickly down means that once you get to the blaze you look quickly down at your feet – in my salve my blaze is 5 ft by 3 ft so where would I look quickly down – in the beginning the middle or the end of the blaze- so for me look quickly down means to look farther north away from the blaze to in the wood – its just a thought and an opinion

  71. I know one of my shortcomings is being a sucker for unintentional irony, but by any chance did F originally aptly title this post “The Drink of Friendship” ? Lol.

  72. There once was man, named Forrest Fenn,
    He told us in a poem, as to where to begin.
    We all took him for his word, and as an honorable man,
    And thus our futile search, had finally began!

    Yes we all looked him up, and then stared him down,
    We asked ourselves, “Does he think I’m some clown”?
    So for hundreds of hours, we spent much our time,
    Trying to solve Forrest Fenn’s Poem, but it’s almost a crime!

    Look at that chest, and look at that Gold,
    Holy Cow said Harry Carey, it’s a sight to behold!
    With just 24 lines, and nine simple clues,
    This is too easy, how can I lose?

    So we halted and walked, and looked for the Brown,
    Pulled out our maps, and started to frown.
    Jack be nimble, Jack be quick,
    Jack and Jill, this is making me SICK!

    So we go buy his book, called “The Thrill Of The Chase”,
    Looking for clues, to Fenn’s hidey place!
    We read it and read it, and try to decode,
    Wow there Mr. Fenn, my head’s gonna explode!

    So we find our Brown, and reference Fenn’s Meek,
    Are you kidding me Fenn, I’m just a Geek!
    Lions & Tigers & Bears OH MY!
    Then the BOTG, put some FEAR IN MY EYE!

    What’s this all about, the end is ever drawing nigh?
    Man OH Man, am I going to die?
    So I looked to the left, and I looked to the right,
    I pulled out my bear spray, and was ready to fight.

    Then I paddled and paddled, up some silly creek,
    Looking for “heavy loads”, but it’s in my pants I think!
    After hours of hiking, I had to take a break,
    But what do you know, over there is a lake!

    Now things are looking up, but what is this “Blaze”?
    Maybe it’s up there, in the clouds and the haze.
    So up I went in the mud, snow, and cold,
    Looking intently, somewhat confident and bold.

    My long lost friend Blaze, where are you at?
    I slipped on the ice, and landed kersplat!
    This BOTG thing, is harder than I had planned,
    Just pay attention you fool, and watch where you land!

    So up and up, and up I go,
    Look over there, what do ya know.
    Is that the Blaze? It sure looks out of place,
    Is it an Omega, or is it Fenn’s face?

    My legs are so tired, my feet wet and cold,
    I looked quickly down, but no treasure bold?
    Indulgence, Indulgence, where are you at?
    Mr. Fenn this is Genius, I tip my hat!

    So hear me all, and listen good,
    I’m slipping and sliding, but where is the wood?
    I’m looking all over, and trying to be brave,
    But my confidence is fading, and starting to CAVE.

    What’s that over there, it looks magical in it’s simplicity,
    But the poem in a word, is full of complexity!
    Is this the end, and is this the cease?
    It certainly looks like, it’s “The place of Peace”.

    So I hurry and scurry, and get to that place,
    I did have a grin, but now a smile’s on my face!
    Where is it at, and where can it be,
    Come on Chief Joseph, please help me to see.

    Look over there, just 12 feet away,
    Oh my-my God, HIP-HIP HURRAY!!!
    My hands are sweating, and starting to shake,
    Then something goes boom, and then I awake!

    What’s going on here, was that a dream?
    The rainbow was beautiful, next to that stream.
    Maybe some day, we’ll find Forrest Fenn’s Chest,
    Hopefully my friend, before they’re laid to rest.

    So let’s squash the haters, and all the naysayers,
    Please keep Peggy and Forrest, firm in our prayers!
    Thank you Forrest Fenn, for The Thrill Of The Chase,
    Without your love and kindness, this wouldn’t have taken place.


    Personal Note: “CAPS” = EMPHYSIS…. NOT YELLING! Also, I hate trying to overthink the comma thingy so please excuse me. English was not my strongest class in school because I could already speak it! Little did I know that some guy named Forrest Fenn would come along and redefine the meaning of Comma Chameleon…Gotta love that old fart, ya know it! 🙂 Thanks for the Chase Forrest…I have no regrets…just UNBELIEVABLE MEMORIES!!! Who knows Forrest, maybe there will be a knock on your door sooner than later! There’s heavy loads of great ideas out there, but there’s only 1 great solve…… 🙂 🙂 🙂 UDAMAN FF!!!

    Deano Bravo

  73. D is for Dean,
    The grammatical Diz,
    When they asked, Who’s the tops?
    Said correctly, I is.

    If ya done it, it ain’t braggin’

  74. Wwwh. Some thoughts. Birth. Death. A parting of ways-as when trust between people or cultures is lost.

  75. “…My cost was almost 2 bucks but I didn’t care because this was Dizzy Dean . I was thrilled even more than when I shook hands with Sammy Baugh…”.

    Sammy Baugh was a Quarterback – a Passer(by). Quarterbacks throw all over the field.

    Dizzy Dean was a Pitcher. Pitchers throw to one spot on the field.

    • A quarterback is also a field marshal. Don’t know if that term is especially applied to the British army.

      And yes, pitchers throw to the catcher. Forrest has spoken of a catcher before.

  76. “Live from the green” = anagram from AIHGAIT.

    Probably nothing but don’t discount anything until its found.

    If anagramming is involved in the clues, hints, or solutions to them I’m sure the MIT crowd will identify it.

  77. “Team MIT” appears to be four kids (undergrads) on summer vacation. The one that was posting didn’t mention that they were checking anagram possibilities. Seemed like they were more compiling and sorting all the stuff by searchers on the internet (if they’re really actually doing anything – hard to tell from what was posted, though the poster sounded sincere enough).

    They’re supposedly botg now, in Yellowstone, so presumably any data-chewing they were doing is all done.


      • Heh – we’d be fools not to. 😉

        I checked back on the MIT boys out of idle curiosity – turned out to be a hoax. The giveaway was their claim to have obtained official permission to search an otherwise off-limits area of the park, and to have engaged a Yellowstone NP ranger to escort them.


    • IMHO, one guy from CMU will solve the entire puzzle, retrieve the chest and write a book about it before that team from MIT can even get their shoes tied.-r

  78. When your gut feeling begins to waver and you wave back. I’m paddling my wagon ashore but they keep rocking my boat. Hoping my ballcap won’t fit. What size is it anyway?

  79. I definitely wonder if Forrest’s signature was inspired by Dizzy Dean:

    Which I always notice when Lubbock comes up (where that baseball is shipping from).

    I also wouldn’t be surprised if Forrest owned the original as it has his birth year on it:!59812!US!-1:rk:27:pf:0

      • “I threw it in the trash where it landed right on top of a Time Magazine. I just needed some time to think, and the more I thought about JD the more I liked him. The only thing was, he’d left out some really important stuff when I was a kid and doing different things.”

        “really important” – “when I was a kid”

  80. “Forrest Fenn subtracts from the allotted time of searchers, those hours spent blogging”.-r

  81. This was an important one.
    It’s just my opinion but, Forrest must think so too if he wanted it put in the newest edition of OUAW.
    We definitely missed something here, and I don’t think it’s about punctuation.
    Let’s play ball!

  82. PDenver…your earlier thought on this thread regarding an overlook fits with the platform idea as well. I like it.

    • Thank you, Sally Colorado. While thinking of the poem, I question myself if the overlook would lean towards “marvel gaze” or “look quickly down”.

      • The answer to this SB is date of issue. And the quote by Paige is wrong, that’s the red flag to pay attention. He played for Browns, he married a brown. It’s all about location and hoB. Who did Paige play for? Look em up. 🙂 I’m way ahead on this 🙂

  83. Problem with a drink like Dr Pepper is that once you crack it open there is no lid on the can and it results in a lot of Indulgence.

    Well If I find that tc I will chuck it up in the air and hit it so hard with a bat that no-one will find it for at least 100 years!

    That would cap it off nicely!

  84. Ahhh… the scrapbook that started so much fuss. Did you know that Ol’ Diz got his nickname right here in San Antonio when a sergeant caught him hurling taters at a garbage can lid? (The sergeant said he looked dizzy) He was stationed at Fort Sam Houston while serving in the Army at the time. Needless to say that he was recruited to play ball and the rest is history.

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