No Place For The Meek…

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What kind of place are we looking for with ” ..no place for the meek.”

 

360 thoughts on “No Place For The Meek…

    • Hi everyone my name is Faron Young from stephenville Newfoundland Canada . Been in the Chase for seven years now. First time corresponding with any searchers . Here’s my take on meek: I think meek means Nervous or scared of something like being around Hebgen lake which is earthquake country also force mansion ghosts And the ace of spades which is associated with death or more often a difficult ending

      • Sorry spellcheck Forrest Fenn mentions GhostsAnd the ace of spades Which is associated with death or more often a difficult ending

      • Faron,

        Could you give examples?
        An abandon town is not really anything to be nervous about or even scared of… but when we call it a ‘ghost town’ superstitions and folklore take over our personal feelings. Is that a good example?
        For me, it would be hard to guess on what fenn would consider scary… from a fighter pilot in active battles, digging an ancient site [which did discover human remains]… to a 9 yr old kid going into a grave yard in the middle of the night alone… or even kicking a log over to watch creepy crawlies scatter about.

        Not everyone would consider an area that is known for earthquake would be scary. At least the few millions who visits the YS area don’t seem bothered by it… and look at all the folks who live in California

        I guess what I’m asking is;
        Does ‘nervous or scared’ relate to an emotion, or a reality-?- as a clue reference?
        Considering one of the definitions of brave is to mean; take on a challenge… that doesn’t always mean a scary or dangers one. I could simply challenge you to a game of games… with that spooky ace of spades in the deck.. right?

          • Ok how about the earth quake landslide at quake lake I been across on the other side we are at the slate is knowing that 27 people have died there and 19 people are still buried there I think it’s no place for meek When you are standing under that Cliff it do make you nervous

          • Yes that closet was too dark anyway making me nervous no place for the meek lol

        • I have always liked the straightforward logic of the quake Lake event. It could be correct. But I get stuck in the poem at that location so I am currently exploring the color green as it relates to the Chapter – Tea With Olga in TTOTC and hoping to marry NPFTM to a place on a map. Would invite any suggestions for or against that idea.

          • I posted this above. I will not post it again. I don’t know how I can be contacted and wanted to make sure some one reads these hints I share… here they are… I will share my hints; I can see things others cant. feel free to read into that.
            here are the hints… (It’s summer, not winter, when one should do these things.)
            They are in order… But some matter more than others…
            ‘no place for the meek’ It’s and introduction sentence sentence. (It’s in the wild, not a place for the meek.) That’s all it means.

            The first thing of real importance is this sentence,
            ‘It begins where the warm waters halt’
            Start your journey down stream from a Dam. You’ll be in a canoe.
            One very near Santa Fe. Where tourist and hikers hike. Yes ‘It’s in the rocky mountains’ part of New Mexico. Near sante fe. Below where a Dam is.

            ‘And take it in the canyon down’,
            take yourself in a canoe down the river on the shallow side of the dam.

            ‘Not far, but too far to walk.’
            People hike on down on the shallow side of this dam. you’re going to take your canoe passed where they can walk or hike. Once you pass a place where hikers can not make it, like where a terrain is too difficult, boulders, high rocks, or tons of brush they cannot penetrate. right after you pass (in your canoe) a place humans can’t hike. you’ll stopping soon after that.

            ‘Put in below the home of Brown’ after you get passed the dangerous areas people cant hike. you’ll exit your canoe, bring your metal detector, because it’s in the home of brown. It’s buried in something brown. That brown thing is called mud. It’s super close to the river. It’s on bank. A muddy bank.

            ‘From there it’s no place for the meek,
            The end is ever drawing nigh;
            There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
            Just heavy loads and water high.’
            After you get where people (tourist) don’t hike cuz it’s too dangerous there is a muddy bank, and that’s where it’s buried. If you attempt to keep canoeing passed this area… you are going to hit the end of a place a canoe can paddle. That is, the end is ever drawing nigh. The end of where its possible to paddle. you wont be able to continue to paddle, because the heavy loads of high water (rapids) will cause you to capsize. He took the canoe near to where, just before rapids begin.

            ‘If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,’
            if you’re wise, your muddy area is where it’s a blaze in the early evening. the east side of the river. the sun is blazing hot.

            ‘Look quickly down, your quest to cease,
            But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
            Just take the chest and go in peace.’
            It’s not buried deep in the brown mud at all. the top may still be visible to the naked eye.

            ‘So why is it that I must go
            And leave my trove for all to seek?
            The answers I already know,
            I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.’
            He’s too old to paddle down the river in his canoe and get it and then paddle back up and out the next day. you can’t walk there, only by paddling.

            ‘So hear me all and listen good,
            Your effort will be worth the cold.
            If you are brave and in the wood
            I give you title to the gold.’
            You’ll have to camp out over night. cuz you’ll be stopping at the brown muddy banks along the east side of the river all day. at night it gets cold. your effort will be worth this cold.

            I am not familiar with the rivers and dams above Sante Fe in New Mexico. One where hikers and tourist hike on the lower half. But thats where the treasure is.

            I hope this helps. If you really want my assistance, lmk.

          • Jeff,
            I have always felt that that chapter seemed a little odd. Mainly because of the colors of the tea. I am not a tea drinker but my wife is as well as a lot of my friends. I never here any of them mention the type of tea they were going to drink. I looked up Taos mountain on the map and found Black mountain just to the north east. Following in the same direction you will come to the red river then north east of that you will run into Greenie peak. Almost all in a straight line. All 3 tea colors. I’ve never heard anyone else mention it. I sent FF and email about it and he did not respond. Didn’t think he would. If you look at map you can see a lot of things that can be connected to the poem. i.e. fish hatchery, graveyard and so on. This was one of my first solutions. feel free to use it. good luck.

          • Thanks Caboose. That’s a very interesting observation. I can see why you would inquire about that one. Unfortunately, I’m looking in W.Y.
            Good luck to you, Jeff

        • Caboose –

          I have spent a fair amount of time on Tea with Olga and the area around Taos.

          I, for one, think your ideas are quite valid. On thing to keep in mind is that Forrest would probably wish that we don’t violate tribal lands.

          Lugnutz

    • It could just mean something like the super volcano under Yellowstone park, or the name Yellow in Yellowstone. But that might be too obvious. My guess is, first be solid with where to start with where warm waters halt, then take the next step with where to go from there.

    • kind of like looking for the lone ranger but opposite easy to lead timid submissive a place they would not go or a place that would not be good not easy to please that masked bandit a kind and gentle, person. where is it he should not be but not to be confused with week i struggle with this one a bit have fun every one be safe think of it like this Sir Fenn was brave to put it at its location and he is still alive don’t take unnecessary risks or dangerous actions listen to him when he says its not in a dangerous place think before you act jeff burch titan ranee and mom the montly crew, good day all got to go get mom up peace. is what it is

    • DEVINJAMES365@GMAIL.COM

      I’ll share my hints with you all… no place for the meek means it’s not somewhere that is easily accessible. this clue is not important, it’s a basic statement made by fern. if you want to speculate it would mean somewhere tourist or river rafters would not go…

        • Fern is my best friend. sorry, yes, Fenn. I misspelled. This now appears obvious given his name and this website. Please feel free to add something to the conversation if you have something to add.

          • I’ve added way too much to the conversations going back to 2015.
            I get tired of repeating myself.
            I get tired of repeating myself.

          • INTERESTING Denvin. When Forrest Fenn said ” alone in there” Do you think he meant he went down in the canyon?

          • I interpreted it as he was on the shallow side of a dam. However, apparently it wasn’t a dam… So maybe it was a reservoir, where warm water is at a halt when it gets to the bottom of mountain. Below the reservoir where people hike there is a place to canoe or raft. Once you go past where people can not walk, (between canyons with water in the middle) you will find it’s location. But if you go to far, you will hit white high waters. I think he could have jumped in his canoe, went passed the rock cropping or canyon twice in one day. idk though. To me it seems obvious it’s in New Mexico. Do you also believe it’s in New Mexico?

    • devinjames365@gmail.com

      I will share my hints; I can see things others cant. feel free to read into that.
      here are the hints… (It’s summer, not winter, when one should do these things.)
      They are in order… But some matter more than others…
      ‘no place for the meek’ It’s and introduction sentence sentence. (It’s in the wild, not a place for the meek.) That’s all it means.

      The first thing of real importance is this sentence,
      ‘It begins where the warm waters halt’
      Start your journey down stream from a Dam. You’ll be in a canoe.
      One very near Santa Fe. Where tourist and hikers hike. Yes ‘It’s in the rocky mountains’ part of New Mexico. Near sante fe. Below where a Dam is.

      ‘And take it in the canyon down’,
      take yourself in a canoe down the river on the shallow side of the dam.

      ‘Not far, but too far to walk.’
      People hike on down on the shallow side of this dam. you’re going to take your canoe passed where they can walk or hike. Once you pass a place where hikers can not make it, like where a terrain is too difficult, boulders, high rocks, or tons of brush they cannot penetrate. right after you pass (in your canoe) a place humans can’t hike. you’ll stopping soon after that.

      ‘Put in below the home of Brown’ after you get passed the dangerous areas people cant hike. you’ll exit your canoe, bring your metal detector, because it’s in the home of brown. It’s buried in something brown. That brown thing is called mud. It’s super close to the river. It’s on bank. A muddy bank.

      ‘From there it’s no place for the meek,
      The end is ever drawing nigh;
      There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
      Just heavy loads and water high.’
      After you get where people (tourist) don’t hike cuz it’s too dangerous there is a muddy bank, and that’s where it’s buried. If you attempt to keep canoeing passed this area… you are going to hit the end of a place a canoe can paddle. That is, the end is ever drawing nigh. The end of where its possible to paddle. you wont be able to continue to paddle, because the heavy loads of high water (rapids) will cause you to capsize. He took the canoe near to where, just before rapids begin.

      ‘If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,’
      if you’re wise, your muddy area is where it’s a blaze in the early evening. the east side of the river. the sun is blazing hot.

      ‘Look quickly down, your quest to cease,
      But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
      Just take the chest and go in peace.’
      It’s not buried deep in the brown mud at all. the top may still be visible to the naked eye.

      ‘So why is it that I must go
      And leave my trove for all to seek?
      The answers I already know,
      I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.’
      He’s too old to paddle down the river in his canoe and get it and then paddle back up and out the next day. you can’t walk there, only by paddling.

      ‘So hear me all and listen good,
      Your effort will be worth the cold.
      If you are brave and in the wood
      I give you title to the gold.’
      You’ll have to camp out over night. cuz you’ll be stopping at the brown muddy banks along the east side of the river all day. at night it gets cold. your effort will be worth this cold.

      I am not familiar with the rivers and dams above Sante Fe in New Mexico. One where hikers and tourist hike on the lower half. But thats where the treasure is.

      I hope this helps. If you really want my assistance, lmk.

      • Sounds like you put a lot of time and work into your solve.
        There’s only one way to tell if this is where the treasure is, wherever this is.

      • Devin — welcome to the Chase. A few inline comments on your post:

        “(It’s summer, not winter, when one should do these things.)”

        While I agree that summer is a much smarter/safer time of year to search for Forrest’s treasure, you should be aware that Forrest wrote: “If you know precisely where it is you can probably retrieve it in any weather.”

        “‘no place for the meek’ It’s and introduction sentence sentence. (It’s in the wild, not a place for the meek.) That’s all it means.”

        I think most are on board with the idea that the chest is “in the wild” somewhere where it won’t be accidentally stumbled upon.

        “The first thing of real importance is this sentence,
        ‘It begins where the warm waters halt’”

        That sentence is not in the poem; you mean:
        “Begin it where warm waters halt”

        “Start your journey down stream from a Dam.”

        That “hint” is refuted by Forrest: he said where warm waters halt is NOT a dam.

        “You’ll be in a canoe.”

        I hope you’re a strong paddler — Forrest made two round trips from his car to the hiding place in a single afternoon, taking the same route to and from the chest’s location at age 79.

        Skipping ahead a bit past all your canoeing:

        “… bring your metal detector, because it’s in the home of brown. It’s buried in something brown. That brown thing is called mud.”

        What’s your explanation for brown being capitalized? Another quote of which you should be made aware: “Technology is not going to help you find that treasure.” Surely a metal detector qualifies as technology.

        “It’s super close to the river. It’s on bank. A muddy bank.”

        Rivers flood in springtime, and flash flood in thunderstorms. Anything that’s buried in mud in the bank of a river will likely be gone within a year or two. Not a smart place to hide a treasure chest that you want to remain safe for centuries.

        This blog is an incredible resource of Fenn quotes, videos, and eight years of posts from some really smart people that have been chipping away at Forrest’s poem for years. I think you will learn a lot from some of the past “solves” that haven’t worked out, and some great theories that have been shared over the years.

          • I think its great to listen to fresh minds of chasers like yourself. Its interesting to see how you interpret the poem before you know all the info that forrest has given out! Its great really!
            It makes me wonder if anyone would find the treasure with no words ever from forrest and with just the poem?
            Forrest has given us so many boundries! Way more than most treasure hunts.
            Really cool to hear your cipher!
            Welcome to the chase!
            Does Forrest or anyone think it could be found without a book or clues?

          • Lou Lee: “Does Forrest or anyone think it could be found without a book or clues?”

            “a book”
            “or clues”

            Great questions.

          • Thank you Jake.
            Forrest has said all we need is the poem. Yet we have so many hints telling us so very much! It now seems impossible to think of finding it without all the help, right? I
            Can’t believe with all the smart people here its not been found yet!

  1. The place is not dangerous – It’s NAME might be intimidating to some, but others will say that it brings about a certain kind of pleasure by others – Imagination required!!! – JDA

    • Meek also means deficient in Spirit or Courage !!! I think we need to be people with a lot of spirit and courage !!! people with A strong Spirit and Courage are those that would most likely be the adventurous ones to be out looking for the chest !!! And Forest himself is full of Spirit and Courage

    • JDA,

      I like to think its not a name, but it might be geographical that makes it no place for the meek. Soooooo…..thoughts are different….Just throwing it out there.

      • seems like that might be a place for the meek it may be a simpler solution im working on it yeaa waiting for the light bulb to come on

  2. The narrows, devils den, overhanging cliff all sound like no place for the meek. Waypoint statement.

    • jmeils;

      So how can we use this? “No place for the meek = No place for sheep?”
      Sheep very well could play a role, it is a matter of figuring out just how this might work – How do you think that it might work? – Just askin’ – JDA

      • JDA,

        Good question – I have some personal thoughts about it…sheep need a shepherd (someone guarding, watching over them). Conjures biblical allusions…seems like FF included some NTest diction in new book too…how it relates, I’m not sure?? Maybe Annabelle’s hat knows something? I’m still adding miles to my FJ and no 10×10 box… :/

        • i wonder quite often if the blaze and all the clues will lead one to indulgence and will stand the days of time but that’s my brain or what remains of it what ? hmmm we should of asked that question when Forrest was answering questions ah well i missed the bus on that one will the hunter know he is on the right path? any way we all have been tought to be observant Right.

      • In my opinion, sheep do play a role. I have stated this in the past. No place for the meek simply means – you must cross the creek.

        Sheep won’t cross water without the shepherd making them do so. They just stand there looking at it and not moving.

        Franklin

        • Funny you should say that…I was out searching today, but chose to not cross the creek…I guess I’m a sheep! LOL! I went back to my easier/comfort zone spot to look around.

          • its better to wait a month until its safe smart you made the right decision your not meek because you are willing to wait your wise

        • Alright, it’s late, and a few like Franklin are close to the mark. The one thing that 99% of people seem to be assuming is that “meek” is referring to PEOPLE. A strictly anthropocentric viewpoint, which can probably be blamed on a combination of the famous biblical quote and the existence of a noted Western personage with that last name.

          Opinion #1: meek isn’t capitalized. Assuming it refers to Joseph Meek is therefore reaching on two counts: uncapitalized proper name, and the extra baggage of the special knowledge required to know who in the world he was.

          Opinion #2: in this day and age, few people qualify as “meek” in any sense of the word, biblical (gentle) or otherwise — treasure hunters even less so. Why are people so vain to think that meek has to refer to them?! STOCK ANIMALS ARE MEEK. Horses, sheep, goats, cattle, donkeys, llamas, etc. Isn’t it a more sensible conjecture to consider that when Forrest says “from there it’s no place for the meek” he means that the path from that point forward is not stock-worthy? Many trails in the Rockies have specific prohibitions against stock animals. Alternatively, if Forrest’s path is narrow or in some way impossible for stock animals to follow, would that not qualify as a route that’s not meant for the meek? After all, Forrest has expressed a particular disdain for following human trails: “no adventure in that.” Surely following a horse trail would be even worse in his mind.

          • Do the many trails in the Rockies that have specific prohibitions against stock animals have a sign posted on the trail that states that restriction?

            Just curious because if they do then we run into the problem of can a sign pass the 1,000 year test of time for clues and some might say man made structure.

            If these specific trails don’t have a sign posting about stock animal restrictions then it would be specialized knowledge that uncovers that.

          • Zap,
            I’m a bit confused to the usage of ‘Stock Animals’. No big surprise that I’m confused.

            Only it sounds to me when you say; ‘Many trails in the Rockies have specific prohibitions against stock animals. Alternatively, if Forrest’s path is narrow or in some way impossible for stock animals to follow…’
            The first part seems like you only talking about ‘domestic’ animal, regardless of species.
            In the second part you’re implying [a method] ‘herding’ those domestic animals… I fail to see a connection to a path that is a none human trail, yet still be for, or not for, herding domestic animal as a clue reference.

            If talking about a narrowing of a passage, does creek’s meaning as a “narrow passage” cover that idea well. Which fall in line with fenn talking; about words many use daily but don’t fully understand their meanings. Which also may be the down fall of searcher who only concentrate on a movement of water [ stream or river ]… when it possible the area may not have a creek at all?

            Your explanation seems to me to be; more require knowledge and complicating a clue, rather than, ‘trying to simplify a clue’ reference.
            IF you’re using your idea of domestic herding… shouldn’t other parts of the poem [ clues ] refer to the same idea? I mean, wouldn’t hoB have something to do with the animals as well-?- to indicate a connection to how you would consider ‘the path ahead’ [ “from there”- hoB ] as not usable/reasonable for ‘Stock Animals’? leading the reader to understand ‘meek’ is to narrow for the animals to travel.

            My thought and yours [in the examples] are basically the same… only yours brings in herding [ a human activity ] of domesticated live stock [ for humans only ]… as where my example uses meanings of the word{s} in the poem to explain the same.

            I get it… you think looking up words is not going to help or the correct approach.
            But just using this one example; Which is more likely to be more efficient for ‘anyone’ reading a ‘straight forward’ poem? [ whether the person reading the poem is 9 yrs old or 90, from the country or the city, live in Alaska or Australia… ]

          • Fundamental design: “Do the many trails in the Rockies that have specific prohibitions against stock animals have a sign posted on the trail that states that restriction?”

            Yes, often they do (e.g. no horses). Helps prevent trail erosion. Detailed maps often have numbered codes at trailheads indicating animal restrictions (sometimes they’re seasonal).

          • Zap, I’m piling on your thought of meek referring to stock animals. It has been noted in many places that humans can go where many other critters cannot. It doesn’t make us “bold and brave” it is simply a statement of fact because of how our bodies are. In the wild, where can a human being go that stock cannot? My sol;ve, such as it is, revolves, in part, around this kind of thinking.

          • swwot…Not that any of this thread means anything in terms of the Chase….but I have to tell you that I have seen some rather large cattle in places you would never believe. Steep, rocky and debris littered places. Boggles the mind actually. Carry on…

          • Ken,

            As have I – stupid heifers! How in the world did you get in there? I remember having to disassemble some stanchions as a teenager to get one out. Oy!

          • Lugnutz: I wouldn’t say zero. If my route to the treasure location is correct, it could not be followed by stock. While it is not a human trail, it is not a path that domesticated hoofed animals could follow.

          • Zap –

            That is not what you think the Meek clue refers to thought right?

            I am saying there is zero chance that to you the clue No Place for the Meek is a reference to a path that stock animals are prohibited from using.

            Because if that was true I would not think you have a handle on this. I would take you out of the running.

            You are only commenting about this as a source of discussion, maybe even humor.

          • Lug: no, my “no place for the meek” is simpler than that. It refers to an action the searcher does after reaching the put-in location below hoB.

          • Zap –

            Really?
            Now you sound like Faulker. You genuflect. Later you duck. Then you submerge. Like Lara Croft or Indian Jones.

            Zaphod! Blaze at the Home of Brown!

          • Hi Lug: please don’t compare me to Jake. Jake thinks WWWH is inside YNP which is why he (and Travis/Kettle Corn) have no chance until they figure out the correct WWWH.

            “Blaze at the Home of Brown!”

            The blaze and home of Brown are not co-located IMO, Lug.

          • Zap & Lug,
            Lug, you’re all over the map.
            You spread yourself too thin & you will not win.

            Zap, the only argument I got from folks here about F’s bathing spot was it’s too obvious but I did get it from one of the treasure hunting memoires TFTW. Not SB’s or vignettes, Mysteriouswritings etc…

            Pick your poison.
            My poison is with the books TTOTC, TFTW, poem, GE and or a good map.

            The reason I know why you won’t share your WWWH here as I have is because you are afraid of ridicule from us because it’s probably a great big tangent stretch after reading all your posts as everyone’s here for years.

            You’re a very smart fella but I don’t think intellectualism, fancy words is what’s needed in this chase.

            Funny, you’re good at finding a rock from outer space here on earth but have no success in finding a treasure hidden by a human here as all have failed & for you to condemn anyones thoughts shows your ignorance & huge shortcomings.

            I have always stated: “don’t ever estimate your fellow man” especially if they know they are right with no proof to back it up.
            Proof?
            POOF!

          • Jack Faulker ~ ‘Pick your poison.
            My poison is with the books TTOTC, TFTW, poem, GE and or a good map.’

            Interesting that the second or any other book seems to be as equal as the TOTC book. There are two comments you might want to look up for a refresher course.
            Good reference tools are…
            And
            a Q&A section, posted in this site, that directly asked about both “Books” when answered, fenn only mentioned the first book by name in a direct answer to the question.
            I’m not going to post them, it should be something that someone who had been in the challenge for a while would already know about, and easily found.

          • I know about the quotes Squeaker, I decided to add the other memoir that has a map & the poem TFTW. Seems obvious to use only these 2 books.

            Bottom line is: Those that don’t offer their WWWH (or any of the clues) shouldn’t criticize others that do. That goes for everybody here.

          • Jake,
            Some just poke and ruffle feathers… others are too meek to take it.
            Some attempt to be clever, others are more direct.

            But as to the second book; while we know there is information [ the map for one, although we have been told prior- the RM’s ] the only reference tool fenn has ever mentioned [ as far as books go ] is the TOTC. Which doesn’t contain the river bathing story to my knowldge…

            I mean, If the next book that has fenn parking at the Denver museum a possible piece of information [ and such a big deal was made about Doug Preston’s comments, advertising it ] … the greater YS area just blew of the map.

            How many books does it take to get to the center of the poem?

          • Zap,
            I’ve thought for a long time that”no place for the meek” could mean “ no place for someone not willing to take a needed step or make a necessary move”. For example jump from point A to point B.
            Or something along those lines.

            Kanafire

      • a parking lot would be no place for sheep see i think around corners it just takes me time. what would they eat ? im thinking i think

  3. The term “no place for…” is used in the chapter in TToTC titled: “No Place for Biddies”

    What is that chapter about? It’s about running away from home by crossing the street.

    Perhaps this is telling the searcher to park their car below the home of Brown and then move away from the hoB by crossing the street…

    Another meaning of biddy is chicken, so maybe it just means no place for a chicken 🙂

    • (At the Top) posted “Perhaps this is telling the searcher to park their car below the home of Brown and then move away from the hoB by crossing the street.”

      I think you have identified one of those subtle hints that FF says is in the book, but in my “solve,” the word “meek” is just a utility word that he needed to rhyme with “creek.”

      • It wasn’t randomly chosen simply to rhyme with “creek”. There are
        lots of words that do, but it would have been pretty silly to just choose
        one, such as “tweak” or “squeak”. Keep thinking. IMO.

  4. What first comes to mind is a place where there is gun play resulting in perforated mild-mannered grass-munching animals.

  5. a place with more people around than you would like given the circumstances i.e. hiding or retrieving treasure.

  6. Hi Frank: seems I’ve started a firestorm. Prior incarnation of the Meek Storm, you replied:

    “zap – let me see if I can ex plane meek to where you can understand me -Dal had a comment sometime back meek being a fishing rod – so when other fishermen would come to fish they would tell them theres no place for the meek – meaning the fish aren’t biting so what I think it means in the poem is – this is no place for the treasure chest – for years ive always thought that’s what it meant and its just my opinion hope it helps—– frank”

    Frank, that’s better than the near unanimous common factor that everyone assumes, but still not what I was referring to.

  7. Hi JDA:

    “I beg to differ with you Zap – not ALL of the posts “share one factor in common.”

    Sorry, JDA, but based on your 8/24/1026 post you have one assumption about “no place for the meek” that is still in common with everyone else.

  8. E.C. inquired: “Zap – Why even post?”

    Simple: to encourage creative thinking about a topic for which most searchers are in lockstep, and perhaps shouldn’t be. The post wasn’t meant as a tease. I fully intend to reveal the alternative interpretation that no one is considering, and yet one that is simpler and more sensible.

    • Hey Zap, maybe not in this section but maybe at odds & ends other definitions have been given.

      By the way, meek livestock vs. non-meek livestock, is that something you learned from your parents as a kid, growing up in your neighborhood, at school or just common knowledge?

      Sounds like you had to do some research to find that yourself which would fall under specialized know..yawnnn 🙂

  9. Meek does not mean afraid. The opposite isn’t brave.

    Meek means humble and the opposite is proud.

    That’s just a general note because most here seem to equate it with fear.

    But if I was a betting man I would bet on Ignoble

    • Lug: see my 9:59pm post. I agree with you that most people erroneously think “meek” means timid, fearful, or in some way a shrinking violet. That’s not at all accurate. Passively compliant or gentle/tame are closer. Far more applicable to animals than people.

    • meek
      adjective
      quiet, gentle, and easily imposed on; submissive.

      “I used to call her Miss Mouse because she was so meek and mild”

      synonyms: submissive, yielding, obedient, compliant, tame, biddable, tractable, acquiescent, humble, deferential, timid, unprotesting, unresisting, like a lamb to the slaughter; quiet, mild, gentle, docile, lamblike, shy, diffident, unassuming, self-effacing

      “they called her Miss Mouse because she was so meek”

      I’m with you, when I hear the word “meek” in my minds eye I picture someone, head bowed, hands folded standing there reverently.

      I’ve often thought that this meant the opposite in this case, Hold your head up and cross the stream, forging bravely on ahead.

      But then I always ask myself, would a stream (river?) with water that high that you had to hold your head up be something an 80 year old would cross?

      • P_T-
        I think you should not only ask yourself if an 80 year old would go there but also if it is safe for a child.
        Remember that Forrest designed this game to be played by families and for getting kids off the couch.

        • Hebgen and earthquake lake is my meek, earthquake country .A question for everybody about three A question for everybody ? About four years ago I remember reading a newspaper clipping that the West Yellowstone newspaper printed today after the earthquake the headlines read there is a marvel site down in the Canyon I been looking cannot find that clip anymore can anybody confirm thiis

        • Thank you Dal, You’re right, KIDS and an 80 year old.

          Wait… what if the kids had floaties on? Hahahahaha. Just kidding.

        • I know while we were heading to my spot we had 2 families go by with kids and we even had an older couple hike by at a fast pace. We passed at least 15 people on our way to my spot but passed no one on the way out.
          -B

      • thats funny because i came upon a rd called slaughter house cir or something like that in the mountains in colo i think i come across a lot of weird things like that some where by bonanza beauty was all around for sure

  10. In referring to “sheep”, Zaphod73491 wrote: “Isn’t it a more sensible conjecture to consider that when Forrest says “from there it’s no place for the meek” he means that the path from that point forward is not stock-worthy?”
    —————————————————————————————————-

    No, not necessarily.

    I’d say your interpretation of “meek” would require specialized knowledge about stock animals (sheep, horses, etc.). Why should some city dude be required to research the behavior of stock animals?

    The first response in this thread, by Brett, of “something intimidating” sounds much more straightforward and realistic.

    Does your favorite search area force you to consider that “no place for the meek” refers to something to be avoided by stock animals, including sheep? Is that why you are trying so hard to defend your interpretation?

    But who are you really trying to convince … readers or yourself?

    Ken (in Texas) 🙂

    • Hi Ken in TX: “I’d say your interpretation of “meek” would require specialized knowledge about stock animals (sheep, horses, etc.). Why should some city dude be required to research the behavior of stock animals?”

      There’s no specialized knowledge here — meekness is an attribute regularly applied to sheep and other submissive animals. The point of my post was to show that for whatever reason, nearly everyone has been assuming that meek referred to people, and more specifically would-be Fenn searchers. I suggested that wasn’t the only option. (Example: a searcher puts in below their home of Brown, and is then presented with a choice of directions, one of which is a trail with a sign posted: “No stock.”)

      “The first response in this thread, by Brett, of “something intimidating” sounds much more straightforward and realistic.”

      Meek does not mean fearful or frightened. Sure, a lot of people use it that way, but that’s not what it means.

      “Does your favorite search area force you to consider that “no place for the meek” refers to something to be avoided by stock animals, including sheep? Is that why you are trying so hard to defend your interpretation?”

      This has nothing to do with my solution. I was suggesting an alternative interpretation that frankly has a lot more going for it than the Joseph Meek angle.

    • i saw a place in wyoming two days ago where there was a lot of cow bones and dead cows every where i got out of that place fast maybe im meek too couldnt find it again and dont want to but a sign some where on our journy made me laugh

    • I feel it’s important to focus on the big picture as opposed to the small individual words such as Meek….. The big picture here is that Forest mentioned in an interview that a person could ride a bike to where the chest is located… plus it’s not near or on a man made trail… and it’s where an 80 plus year old can easily access it ….. you can’t ride a bike across a river ??? and I don’t think that Forest at his current age would cross a fairly swift moving river ….. I think the clues clearly point out close proximity to a river but not necessarily crossing a river …..

      • Forest also mentions that there is sage brush, animals, pine trees and mountains in the area of the chest ……

        • DKM, I’ve been pondering a what if on this for a while because he actually says he can see all these things if he were standing where the TC is, not necessarily that the TC is among these things.

          One of my potential solves involves a canyon where the two sides are quite different because of different sun exposures . One side is full of trees and the other things he mentions while the other is more rocky and barren but with some good hidey spots.

          I’d rather the chest were on the forest-y side and “in the wood,” but if it were on the other side, it is close enough that he could still see and probably smell the things he talks about.

          Just the way you worded your comment made me revisit this thought – thanks for that.

          On the other hand, more ground to cover…

      • DKM,
        I agree in thought that we probably don’t need to cross a river… a small stream sure, maybe, on foot… but that’s not my point. My point is; the e-mail was about a searcher suggesting a few things fenn should to when his [ for lack of a better term ] time is up. The answer in part was;

        “I am a very simple person and you want me to have copious meetings with lawyers, preachers, undertakers and your family. What is wrong with me just riding my bike out there and throwing it in the “water high” when I am through with it? You don’t know how many man hours I have spent on that subject…” [ can be found in the tread ‘ Forrest gets mail ].

        I think it would be wise to understand the ‘subject’ fenn was referring. At least, I think it would help to understand… rather than the idea that a bike is usable in the location, so there shouldn’t be an deep water crossing involved, line of thinking.
        IMO that was pretty much covered with fenn’s early warning; Don’t go where an 80 yr old with a heavy backpack can’t.

          • My most obvious answer would be [ in reference to the idea ] is a bicycle. A motorized anything containing gas, oil, rubber etc… just doesn’t jive with what fenn was ‘implying.’ Read the full e-mail… you might see what I mean about the ‘subject’ rather than the transportation.

        • I really have trouble believing that Forrest was making a serious point about being able to ride a bike to the treasure. I think he was being tongue and check.

          • Hi Doug: I concur with your assessment that the bicycle remark was off-the-cuff and not a factoid that should be folded into our solutions. A man who who used river grasses as a washcloth to avoid the “bad karma” of using soap in a pristine river does not sound like the sort of person who would pollute the “water high” by throwing a bicycle into it.

            Similarly, I don’t read anything into his answer to Jennifer’s question “Who’s Brown?”: “Well, that’s for you to find … if I told you that, you’d go right to the chest!” (Some searchers run with that, believing that if you are at home of Brown, you head to the right in order to go to the chest.) But if you watch the interview, that’s not the proper take-away — his response was flippant because Jennifer repeated a question that she should have known he would never answer.

          • Zap;

            I think that you are wrong re the bike. I now believe that it is very much possible to ride a bike from a “Parking Area” – some where past the “No place for the meek” place – past the “end” place and before the “No paddle up your creek” place. He used a bike to help carry the “Heavy Load” of Indulgence and its contents. I suspect he hid the bike before the “Heavy Loads and Water High” spots.

            Hope to prove the possibility soon – JDA

          • Hi JDA: while I think it could well be possible to ride a bicycle from WWWH to a later clue, Forrest specifically said “What is wrong with me just riding my bike out there and throwing it in the “water high” when I am through with it?” I was addressing the unlikelihood that an environmentally sensitive person like Forrest would ditch a bicycle in a natural body of water in the wilderness. Since I don’t think he would, for me it raises a red flag that the whole statement should probably be taken with a grain of salt.

          • Zap;

            Context. Forrest was talking about what to do at the time of his demise – not his view on the environment. If he (Forrest) is about to die, and leave his bones to rot and/or feed the bears, the last thing on his mind is the environment – Don’t you think? You constantly talk about context, but forgot to look at it this time – it would appear – JDA

          • Hi JDA:

            “f he (Forrest) is about to die, and leave his bones to rot and/or feed the bears, the last thing on his mind is the environment – Don’t you think?”

            It may not be what would be foremost in his mind, but I think it would be completely out of character for him to undo a lifetime of showing respect for the environment by polluting it with one of his final acts. That’s just my reading of him.

          • JDA,

            F made the statement, “Were both trips made on the same day/date? “I made two trips from my car to the hiding place and it was done in one afternoon.f”

            I have a strong tendency to believe that no bicycle was ever used just by the statement above.

            Just Say’n

          • CharlieM;

            You quote the following: ““Were both trips made on the same day/date? “I made two trips from my car to the hiding place and it was done in one afternoon.f”

            All it says is that he made two trips in one afternoon . How does this quote lead you to believe :”No bike?” – Two trips could have been made by ANY mode of transportation – IMO.

            Can you explain your thinking as to how this quote says – “No bike.” Just askin’ – JDA

          • CharlieM;

            “From my car…” means that he made two trips that originated at the place he parked his car.

            I went on a hike – “From my house.” This does not mean he took his house with him on a hike. You KNOW what Forrest meant Charlie. JMO JDA

          • JDA,

            This is a Q&A over at MW. Hi Forrest,
            You once said you walked the 92 miles from West Yellowstone to Bozeman to just experience it. Obviously you were much younger than you were when you hid the treasure. Too far to walk means different things at different ages so I was wondering if you would be so bold as to give an estimate of how far you walked to hide the treasure after leaving your car: was it >10miles, between 5 and 10 miles, between 1 and 5 miles, or less than 1 mile? ~Thanks, Ron

            Ron, your question sounds like a travelogue, but I’ll answer it. No, I don’t want to be that bold. But I will say that I walked less than a few miles if that will help. I just looked “few” up and one definition is “scant.” Why do I sound like I’m talking in circles? f

            This also shows that he walked to hide the chest.

            Just Say’n

          • CharlieM;

            We can banter back and forth all day, and I will not change your mind nor will you change mine. Your last quote does say that he “Walked” less than a few miles – TRUE, but he could have “Walked” beside a bike, using the bike as a way to “Carry” the “Heavy Load” of the chest and/or its contents.

            ALL supposition. ALL quotes can be interpreted (or mis-interpreted) to fit ones point-of-view.

            Have a GREAT day CharlieM and Good Luck in your search – JDA

          • Bicycle or not…to me it does not matter. The sticking point for me is parking his vehicle to do the deed. If we take Fenn at his word that the special/dear “place” is the same one when he planned to die there…the Q becomes very important in regards to the logistics involved. I do believe he had a “plan” so folks would not locate his vehicle too close to where the treasure was secreted.

          • JDA,

            I think some are confused about a bike being used, when F said, “What is wrong with me just riding my bike out there and throwing it in the “water high” when I am through with it?”

            Its simply a rhetorical question from F and not a statement that he did use a bike. The quote above is here on hoD at https://dalneitzel.com/2012/10/02/forrest-gets-mail/

            Yes we can quibble. I have a question for you. Where does F actually state he rode a bike to confirm that he did? I personally can’t figure out a question to be a confirmation that he did.

            I hope you end up with a good solve and new search. 🙂

          • Well CharlieM;

            You know that there is no quote regarding a bike that is not a question. But, as Ken said, what difference does it make? Probably none.

            Regarding: “I hope you end up with a good solve and new search. … I have a good solve – Thank you and yes, I will have a new search (#20) sometime before fall sets in – Thanks JDA

          • MW Q&A 2 March 15

            Q – “Forrest, You said you made two trips from your car to hide the treasure. Besides walking, did you use any other methods of transportation to get back and forth between the car and the hide? Thanks, Edgar”

            A – “Edgar, your wording of the question prompts me to pause and wonder if I can answer it candidly, yet correctly. Were all the evidence truly known, and I answered in the positive, you might say I was prevaricating, by some definitions of the word. And if I answered in the negative, you may claim that I was quibbling. So I will stay quiet on that subject. Thanks for the question anyway.” f

          • J.A. K.

            I LOVE this quote. Insert the possibility of him walking beside a bike, and it makes a LOT of sense – at least to me. Thanks for digging it up and posting it – JDA

          • JDA: I would think the introduction of a bicycle into the Chase equation complicates things rather than simplifies them. Similar to the argument against a horse, why make two trips if you’ve got a bicycle to carry the load? A hiker with a small backpack looks less conspicuous than someone walking a bike with a package in its basket.

          • Zap;

            Interesting the way we insert our own perceptions. Who said there was a basket on the bike? Very few bikes, other than little girl’s bikes come with a basket.

            I feature a backpack strapped onto the crossbar of a man’s bike. Try tying 22 pounds of “something” onto a crossbar – a bit unwieldly I have to admit – but possible.

            If confronted – all a 79 or 80 year old guy has to say is – “The pack was too heavy, so I tied it to the bike – works pretty good.” And Forrest continues on down (or up) the trail. WHO KNOWS? Only Forrest, and he isn’t talkin’ – YET – JDA

          • Most every beach cruiser I’ve ever seen — men’s or women’s — had a basket on it. A lot simpler than trying to balance a dense object on the handle bars of a 10-speed or mountain bike.

            If you didn’t have family members along with you, would YOU take a mountain bike along for retrieving the treasure?

          • Zap;

            Not trying to argue, but I just googled “Beach Cruiser Bicycles” https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=4cpDW-H9MeHl9AO_m6XQAw&q=beach+cruiser+bicycle&oq=beach+cruiser&gs_l=psy-ab.1.9.0l2j0i131k1j0l7.2171.6166.0.12769.13.9.0.4.4.0.103.754.8j1.9.0….0…1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.13.776…0i10k1.0.72Z2MD81EzM – NONE shown with a basket.

            To answer your question – Yes, I would rent a “Mountain Bike” and take it with me to help carry back Indulgence – JDA

        • how does one throw something like that into water high tossing it up or is the water high low just a bike tossing thought

      • The “bicycle” comment was from 2012. I think about that “subject” often…not the bicycle…but the “subject”.

        • I thought the subject was about the many man hours spent with the lawyers mauling the legal questions. What else do you have in mind?

          • Windy City: That would be a lot easier than a bicycle, but still pretty suspicious looking. If was hiding over a million in loot, I would want to blend in and be “forgettable” if spotted from a distance by others. A hiker or fisherman with a small backpack would seem to do the trick.

          • I think he is not answering the question because he thinks he was more “hiking” to the sport than “walking” that’s why he is vague about the specifics.

          • Hi Doug: if at any point he has to use his hands to climb up on something, or get on his hands and knees to go under something, or wade across a creek, then his equivocating about whether he did anything other than walk would be understandable.

      • why is it that people think river when its a creek we are looking for something you cant paddle up but hey i may be wrong the nm rivers are creeks to me

      • i thought of a big picture word and could not remember it until right now that word was serenity through eternity

      • DKM, please point us to that interview (about a person being able to “ride a bike to where the chest is located”). Thanks in advance.

  11. Antonyms for meek
    bold
    brave
    disobedient
    excited
    intractable
    troubled
    unyielding
    emboldened
    immodest
    impertinent
    uninhibited

  12. Page one on this subject began before I ever heard of Forrest Fenn and I have never posted a comment on it till now.
    I think the line is straight forward without any trick or hidden meanings. To me it means that the hiding ‘area’ is not for a timid or weak-kneed individual.
    Not that it’s a dangerous or scary place, but one that requires a searcher to be a little braver and more adventurous than most.
    Imo.

  13. One thought that I have had is that this is tied to his father’s metaphor about grabbing all of the bananas while riding a train. The meek line in the poem directly precedes the ‘end is drawing ever nigh’ line so it seems logical that these two thoughts are related. Could the ‘end is ever drawing nigh’ mean that life is too short to be meek and that ff believes people should seize every opportunity (banana) while on the ‘train’ of life? FF was bold in his life and not meek. He grabbed as many bananas that he could. One ‘big picture’ interpretation of the poem is that it is about ff dying and reflecting on his life and it could be that the general area is symbolic of ff’s life. Maybe the area is located near where many bananas (old riches) have been grabbed? This is a bit of a reach but just putting it out there. One other note, since meek is not capitalized I do think it is probably not related to any proper names (i.e. people’s names, names of rivers, mountains, etc.).

      • Hi Jmeils, I was thinking any place where treasure hunters in the distant past might have grabbed some bananas of their own (i.e. mining or other types of excavations…maybe a place where Native American Artifacts have been found). Who knows? Of course, I do not think the chest is located in a mine or on sacred native American land…but maybe some of those hints of old riches are in the general area. I have been trying to figure out the message ff is sending with the poem in addition to the map. It has not been working so far. I do think there is a ‘big picture’ theme in the poem but what is it and how does it map to a specific location? Dave

        • Not meek = Brave
          Possible Answers: Salt

          Salt was a favorite euphemism for a combat veteran in Vietnam.

          Salt can be made in the critical line 5, if the H is moved or silent.

          Warm (brown) water could be whiskey.

          Find a place that links salt, whiskey, the Constellation of Cancer, high/cold water, and wood and you might get lucky . . . even without a coordinate.

          Regards

          • Iowa,

            Wow…saltines, salami, saltpeter, salt water (South China Sea), salty attitude (waiting in checkout lines), Salt Lake City (refuel Wolf plane and my home town)…your thought provoke more study – ugh!

        • Dave,

          I was just playin’…yes, That makes sense to me. We took the fam up to Virginia City (up near Ennis – which I think is an interesting little town). We did some panning for gold…everyone had a great time.

          • Sounds like a very fun family vacation Jmeils! I bet all of those little towns in that region are quite interesting. Someday I will get out there. Dave

    • dave- on every train i been on theres no bananas growing by the tracks. i guess i aint never been on every train in the world though. the bananas i get at the store got little stickers on them. like from hoduras or gotamala. why they gotta put little stickers on bananas is beyond me. i peel them off and they stick to my fingers. cant hardly get them in the trash can unless you fold them in half. then, i think theres no reason to peel the sticker off because i aint eatin the peel. im gonna make a bumper sticker that says..”no bumper sticker can define who i am.” but then, maybe that one does. see the irony? wait Dave, i got off topic. sorry. forgive me Dave, my knees bend the wrong way.

  14. I have a solve that has “meek” somewhat related to the decisive action needed when you find the tc. “From there, it’s no place for the meek” – starting now, be decisive – “The end is ever drawing neigh” – maybe from here you catch a glimpse of the blaze through trees (less likely but maybe, potentially, possibly) or the the NPUYC and the HL&WH may be evident. ff may be saying once you’ve gotten to this certain point, put your head and walk with uninhibited steps.

    Relate this line of reasoning to “quickly down”, “tarry scant”, “take the chest and go in peace” and it seems like ff has told us that there is a certainty or emboldened sureness one should have after coming this far correctly and now you should have no hesitation or “meek”ness.

    IMO

    DW 🙂

  15. No place for the meek….
    Rowdy, crazy, busy place

    No sheep here.
    Why do people keep putting sheep here?
    They belong some place else.

    Clearly Clueless

    • So he’s referring to Las Vegas? The chest is near a palm tree, 10’ from the hot tub, under a lounge chair, next to a half sipped margarita…at the Treasure Island Casino, of course!!

  16. I see alot of Dr. Seuss in Forrest, so I try to form most of my opinions the way a child might. I suggest looking at the meaning of :

    corbettharrison.com/documents/lesson-docs/OneFishEssays1.pdf

    From: Indicating the point in space at which a journey starts… ( a beginning )

    There: in, at, or to that place or position

    From there it’s no place for the meek

  17. no place for the meek and yet Forrest hopes a redneck with 12 kids goes searching. I’m no geenus but I would think that this place has danger and yet safety at the same time. kind of like taking your kids to see a scary movie. the danger cant be real. this no place for the meek must have animals that are well fed, stuffed maybe. or like a zoo where the animals are caged. how else can he insure that the children wont be harmed?

    I think.

  18. From there (Put in place below HOB) it’s no place for the meek,
    May be a defined border or specific place to travel to with direction built into the way the river flows.

    Stop where it’s a place for the meek & proceed to the next line.

  19. “No place for the MEEK” It is all in a name…..are you ready….holding your breath….relax….let the imagination runs wild…….slowly exhale….you can hear it on the wind…GHOST RANCH!!!!

  20. Still searching and do not believe I have found the correct NPFTM…

    Have got lots of hiking in and have had an outstanding vacation so far though 🙂

  21. In the original plan, Fenn was supposed to die there.
    So his quest would have led to not only the chest but his earthly remains.
    Certainly that would have made the location “no place for the meek”. 😉

    I’m glad Mr Fenn is still alive, but has anyone ever thought that the chest would be a lot easier to find if Fenns body was nearby as a marker?
    Jmo.

    • randawg- the poem followed precisely will lead to the treasure and the end of his rainbow.
      theres no chest in that.
      i think.
      you wanna talk about the chest now?

      • I think you meant: “So I wrote a poem containing nine clues that if followed precisely, will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure”.
        You may substitute “treasure”, “Indulgence”, or “box of gold” for the word “chest” if you like.

        If you are insinuating that there is no gold and that the treasure is something intangible I do not agree with you.

        • randawg- YOU may substitute words…I wont.
          of course there is gold, I see the photo in TTOTC just like everyone else.
          so, there’s treasure and end of rainbow. that’s all.
          chest is something else.

          I think.

          • randawg-
            there is “treasure” (the great outdoors)
            there is “end of rainbow” ( Forrest’s death)
            there is a “chest” mentioned in the poem (a large wooden box)
            there is the bronze box (as pictured in TTOTC)
            all different things, I think.
            most folks assume the chest of the poem is the bronze box but he says- “following the poem precisely will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure.”
            the treasure may not be the bronze box.
            the chest of the poem may not be the bronze box.
            all of this is my opinion not to be taken as matter of fact.
            you decide.

          • randawg,

            Consider this. Every person has a chest. A treasure is not synonymous with chest in some contexts.

          • dodo- Off topic but interesting. (large wooden box??).

            kk- The topic of this blog should negate any need to explain context.
            Mr Fenn has referred to his his trove as simply “chest” lots of times (Ever read his poem?)

            JDA- Really?

            As usual my original point has been lost completely.

          • FYI dodo,
            “One thing is certain, when a person discovers that beautiful bronze chest and opens it for the first time and sees the bracelet with hundreds of rubies, emeralds, sapphires and diamonds, and the 265 gold coins and hundreds of placer nuggets, he will be in awe. It is easy for me to predict the expression on his their face.”

          • randawg- look at the home page here on Dal’s blog….the paragraph titled “more caution”
            read that and start all over again.

            I think.

          • Dal is very insightful and I value his advice.
            However I am fairly certain he also believes the chest is made of bronze and not wood.

            I think. 🙂

    • randawg- ok, lets return to your original point now that we have discussed what the “chest” may or may not be.
      when Fenn’s body is nearby as a marker then YES! of course the chest will be right there next to him.
      this fact proves my point further, that the chest of the poem may not be the bronze box. the chest of the poem must be found first. and then the adventure really begins.
      is Forrest’s burial place no place for the meek? probably not. his living relatives will want to place flowers on the grave years later. kids, grandkids, great grandkids all need easy access to the gravesite.
      poems are metaphorical, therefore no place for the meek is metaphorical.

      I think.

    • Others have already noted that the stench of a rotting body would make the chest very easy to find – for about a week. Then the smell drops off and the critters dispose of the rest. This is based on personal knowledge of watching dead deer decompose. The circle of life.

      So, if Mr. Fenn did not want his chest found for hundreds of years after he died next to it, what kind of natural spot masks or hides odors well so that his body is not found shortly after he dies?

      • Not the smell. I was referring to a skeleton (wearing jeans and hush-puppies) being easier to spot and harder to hide than a 10×10 box.
        In Treasure Island Captain Flint used the body of murdered sailor Allardyce as a “pointer” to mark the way to the treasure.

    • Not a LOT easier. Perhaps somewhat easier if you were within about 50 feet
      of it. But if you are that close, you have a perfect solve, and only need to do
      some detailed searching. Expect this to take about 2 hours. IMO.

  22. “And the meek shall inherit the Earth” makes me wonder whether “no place for the meek” is wading or fording a stream or river.
    “…The person who finds the treasure will have studied the poem over and over, and thought, and analyzed and MOVED WITH CONFIDENCE…” – Moved with Confidence always makes me think of Simms wading boots – https://www.simmsfishing.com/headwaters-boa-boot-felt-s18

    Here’s some fun Wiki trivia related to Salinger messing with Burn’s poem (admittedly pretty far out there but….):
    “…a longstanding legend in the Drakemyre suburb of the town of Dalry, North Ayrshire, holds that “comin thro’ the rye” describes crossing a ford through the Rye Water at Drakemyre to the north of the town, downstream from Ryefield House and not far from the confluence of the Rye with the River Garnock….”

    If Forrest was on Rye Creek at the Bitterroot in SB 124 would that make him the Catcher in the Rye?

    • Argillite

      I have to say that this is brilliant. My compliments on your thought process!

      I am always amazed at the things searchers come up with. I would never have made that connection.

      Franklin

  23. The meek are God’s tender sheep who will inherit the earth and the heathen will also become their inheritance (Psalm 2:8). No place for the meek, means no place for the sheep…just think a tad bit further.

  24. Here is something interesting. dictionary.com gives synonyms of the word meek. One of those synonyms is pacific. That was news to me. Never heard of this word being associated with meek. I know there are a lot of people whose solve involves something to do with the continental divide where water on one side drains to the Pacific and water on the other side drains to the Atlantic. The word pacific comes from the word peace (go in peace). Does this help anyone out? I just love learning new definitions of words I thought I knew.

    • Hi Flutterby, thanks, I do think this would be interesting to anyone working a Continental Divide solve. I had not found this. Good stuff. I am probably moving on from the CD as a WWWH, but I did find that this information you provided tried to pull me back into that CD solve. 🙂 Dave

    • A meek person would most likely be a pacifist. A love for peace. That is what your word Pacific is referring to. Imho

      Lyzeebella … safety first always

    • how does one throw something like that into water high tossing it up or is the water high low just a bike tossing thought its called ocean pass i came across this yesterday got to go see that place or the parting of the waters nothing meek i think im searching for a stone some where in the sage brush the treasure may not bee there but im going to find that stone by a hallow good day all

      • As a whitewater kayaker I’ve always considered oceans to be warm waters. Through the winter months a surfing trip to Tofino can be a nice change from the frigid river waters – about a 15 degree Fahrenheit difference. So (IMO) Jeff your “Two Ocean Pass”
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Ocean_Pass
        makes a good halting tipping point (WW=2) and the Flutterby’s Pacific/meek connection points to the Atlantic Creek side. The parting of the waters you mention ties in nicely with the “Well Here’s Moses” references. All pure conjecture on my part, I’ll keep trying to make the other clues fit in this scenario. It would be cool if there was a West Thumb/left thumb tie in too. Thanks for sharing.

        • They were all neatly clothed in dressed deer and Sheep skins of the best quality and seemed to be perfectly contented and happy. They were rather surprised at our approach and retreated to the heights where they might have a view of us without apprehending any danger, but having persuaded them of our pacific intentions we then succeeded getting them to encamp with us.

    • Hi Flutterby! Your comment was from a few months ago, but I was just noodling about “meek” and had the same discovery you did. Synonyms of meek are: gentle; mild; soft; yielding; pacific; unassuming; humble.

      Here’s one of my interpretations: “From there” sounds like an instruction, and “no place for the pacific” could further that instruction. Since the pacific is west of everywhere in the Rocky’s –> “From there, it’s East.”

      I’m also enamored with “the meek shall inherit the earth.” And there is one place with earth quakes, ghost cabins, etc. This fits perfect with my favorite easy solve (which I think is everyone else’s favorite solve).

      For me, with this line, I’m trying to (a) tease out if FF is speaking about a route, path, instruction, direction, or (b) a specified location (place), and (c) how exactly does the word “no” modify (a) or (b)…

      • Hi Emms;

        your post was addressed to Flutterby – but here is my .$.02

        “I’m trying to (a) tease out if FF is speaking about a route, path, instruction, direction, or (b) a specified location (place), and (c) how exactly does the word “no” modify (a) or (b)…”

        One at a time: (a) tease out if FF is speaking about a route, path, instruction, direction, – My answer = None of those listed.

        (b) a specified location (place) – YES

        (c) how exactly does the word “no” modify (a) or (b)…”

        No = not Not a place where a meek person would want to be… in a sense. Let’s take a Bar as a bad example, Would a meek person want to be in a Bar? Would a meek person want to take a shot of Taquilla while in that Bar? Maybe not.

        I do NOT think that it relates to a place of danger. I do think that it relates to the name of a place – or even two or three places in a geographic area. Just how it works out for me – JDA

        • Thanks JDA, your comments are always thoughtful, so I appreciate you barging in. This comment ties in to what I just posted in Odds and Ends. Just a clarifying comment – are you solving “place for the meek” and determinining that’s not the place you go, or are you solving “no place for the meek” as a single location item? It seems your bar example would fit better with the latter, which would then say: From there, it is the bar.

          • Hi Emma;

            Thanks. I am at hoB. I travel through an area on my way to the “END” place. The area that I travel through is the “Bar” – actually between one and 3 “Bars” on this street – so to speak – Clear as mud? – “Well, here’s to mud in your eye” – haha – JDA

    • I was looking for my Google so I could smoke some of that, but I think leprechauns ran off with it. They probably descended from a magical cloud city that was floating bye. :/

  25. The interesting thing about this blog is, if you have a really good idea you would never share it. I think it has something to do with the name of the place but that’s just my opinion.

        • Do successful people give a message board directions to a multi-million dollar treasure before they have a chance to look for it themselves? *< 🙂

          • What’s interesting Doug is that the unsuccessful side of the meme describes various personalities her at the HoD.

            Coveting knowledge and thinking they know it all.

            I predict that the finder will be a person that is open and sharing.

          • do you think you could share your solve with me, that would be very helpful. I will share something with you… I think the blaze is fairly ubiquitous, that’s why people are having trouble finding it, they are looking for something special.

          • doug, I think that the blaze (from the poem) is special
            and relatively difficult to identify/find. But good luck to
            you. If your confidence in your solve is extremely high, why don’t you “drive out there” and get the treasure?

            As always, IMO.

          • I am heading out September 1, it is a long way to go and I have a job and family. So, maybe I will find it early September, maybe I won’t

          • Same! We are driving out August 31st and staying til September 3rd. Wish us luck and good luck to you!

          • Thank you JDA! We plan on being very safe. No stupid stunts necessary for my 2 possible solves 🙂

    • I respectfully disagree. I think some really clever and sound ideas have been shared on this blog and on other blogs. I do think that sometimes people do not realize what they are sharing or its importance.

      • Over time, I’ve found some solves that are sound, I believe. They came from the poem (and I don’t mean I found a brown house and a creek named meek and a mountain named Treasures, or anything like that), backed up by TTOTC, the ATFs, the pictures in TTOTC–all that. I keep looking each time I have a general solve, because I can’t stop asking, “Hm. I wonder if another place could have all this, but more?” And then I find someplace. Drat. A couple are even clever, and I’ve not heard anyone else mention them.

        But I believe MANY searchers could say the same about their own solve(s), and they’d be right. Several are derived from various ways of using or analyzing or researching or examining or decoding the poem, and I’m sure once the chest is found, if people post their solves, we will all be astonished at how many fit the poem (and maybe TTOTC, too, and heck, maybe the ATFs, too) so very well. And at how many different “I’s” could have gone alone in there to create a solve. There may even be some searchers whose solves fit the poem better than does ff’s actual solve!

        I’m not sure, no matter what else I find from this point on, that I will ever feel truly confident about my solve the way I was when I first looked at a map and saw those first poem mountain and creek names. :). Ah, childhood…. LOL. There are just too many variables and possibilities in a 24-line poem supported by a 147-page book, even if you don’t look at or read anything else. There even appear to be multiple confident key word ideas that “work.”

        Summary: this poem is no place for the meek!!!

        • Agree Lady V. With most activities in life, the confidence curve has a direct relationship to the experience curve (i.e. more experience = more confidence). For me, there is an odd inverse relationship between experience and confidence with ff poem solving (i.e. more experience = less confidence). Dave

          • Totally agree, Dave from KC. Thank the gods I’m mostly in this for the puzzle, the interaction with fellow searchers, the brain exercise (what a workout!), and for having beautiful destinations to explore for riddle-solving. 🙂

            I’m going to be in utter awe of whomever solves this thing.

      • kk,

        I agree with your assessment. Hopefully, I have shared some insight with someone that will help them solve the puzzle. It seems to elude me, thus far.

        • That would never happen doug unless you paid all expenses for my nice vacation.

          I don’t check others peoples solves unless they at least pay for my lunch if I’m within striking distance.

          Ain’t my style to steal another’s, no matter what it’s worth bub.

      • Hi Doug: a lot of searchers mistakenly believe that, but the reality is that most only have eyes for their own solutions. It has been suggested here more than once that Forrest could post the actual solution under a pseudonym, and most here would poo-poo it. That’s essentially what happened with Masquerade — human nature doesn’t change.

        • Doug: are you willing to say which state you believe the treasure lies? If Montana, I’ll file you in the “maybe he gets it” folder. 😉

          • Hi Doug: if pinon nuts was a driver to where you are searching, you may want to reconsider. Pinon nuts was a misspeak by Forrest. He meant pine needles. Perhaps you missed Forrest’s post as Forrest Fire 3 1/2 years ago:

            “Halogetter, I just watched that New Mexico Tourism video again and must say that I didn’t say what I was thinking. You cannot smell a pinon nut, but those who pick them know that in doing so you get pine pitch all over your hands, and pine pitch smells about the same no matter what kind of pine tree you are talking about. Looking back I think I wanted to say I could smell pine needles, not pinon nuts. Sorry I kicked a hornet’s nest with that comment. There is no clue there. Incidentally, when I get pine pitch on my hands I rub butter on the spots and that solves the problem. Of course then I have trouble getting the butter off. f”

          • He took back the pinion nut comment because that comment shrank the map of the hunt to 1/4 of the original. He gave away too much information and then he wanted to take it back. It is something so specific that I really doubt he was mistaken when he initially said it.

          • Doug –

            Because he KNEW some, like you, would say exactly what you are saying, e did more than “take it back”.

            He actually told us, including you, that there is no clue there.

            Isn’t’ that right Forrest?

            Lugnutz

          • I think it’s tricky to keep a secret like Forrest keeps and to discuss facts about it openly. I have my belief on where the chest is and I want to be careful about how much I share about my thoughts. It has to be 100x more difficult for Forrest. It is just my opinion he shined more light into a dark room than he intended to. You can read it in a different way if you want.

  26. For me, this line offers a hint to the “key”. In solving the poem, this line is first broken down, then read from right to left. (At least that’s what I’ve found). You can even see the last 5 letters from right to left as a pre cursor. kee me.
    In the path I take to the spot, this line is also a reference to a “no trespassing” gate. (everyone does anyways). After the canyon down, inside the forest tree line, this is the third clue. This is where the girlfriend got scared and decided we would head back, seeing just trees and forest ahead. Actually, on another trip she made it through and had no problems at all.
    Anyway, the key reference I get “kee me h of e, or, key me 2 of 3. 2 of 3 siblings, me in the middle, 2 of e, whatever, solve. for me on this line it is: key Forrest Fenn, well that’s just how I see it. As far as the path, this is a clue, the third, not seen from Google Earth, a border of sorts, from civilization into the forest.

    • Hi Charlie. I think I read that Fenn said the poem is straightforward and should be read how it is written. No cryptology or deciphering necessary. I like what you thought of though!

    • Been there more than once, doug, it’s an absolutely gorgeous little canyon. A couple/few times on foot from the high side, and once by raft from the Green River side (it’s a popular stop between Echo Park and Split Mountain).

      There’s a US trout hatchery there, and most of the canyon is in Dinosaur Nat’l Monument. The Colorado/Utah border runs pretty much right along its east rim.

      Jake

      • I was just talking about the shadow photo. I think maybe Rex Nye is looking for Fenn’s treasure too. At first I was thinking this was Fenn’s alias or something.

        • Oh okay, the book cover.

          My wife and our kids have used facebook for years to stay in touch – I’m so used to shadow selfies it didn’t really register.

          Jake

          • Sparrow – Rex Nye is the name associated with the shadow photo avatar and many gjhikes videos on youtube.

            Jake

        • Jones Hole Creek?

          Me too, Lug, even with Utah out.

          Couldn’t get to the Colorado border on the east rim, though. We did find a pretty little waterfall falling from way up that border rim, fed only by Burnt Spring.

          Jake

  27. Here’s a slightly different take. I’m not saying I hold to this in a solve, but it is kind of interesting. There was a record producer nicknamed “Joe” Meek. Since the poem has the line “So hear me all and listen good” I thought I’d mention this. This quote about the man is quite interesting:

    “His reputation for experiments in recording music was acknowledged by the Music Producers Guild who in 2009 created “The Joe Meek Award for Innovation in Production” as an “homage to [the] remarkable producer’s pioneering spirit”.[9] In 2014, Meek was ranked the greatest producer of all time by NME, elaborating: “Meek was a complete trailblazer, attempting endless new ideas in his search for the perfect sound. … The legacy of his endless experimentation is writ large over most of your favourite music today.”

    They call him a “trailblazer” and that he had a “pioneering spirit”. He commited suicide in 1967.

  28. Here is another Meek that might apply. “So hear me all and listen good”.

    “His reputation for experiments in recording music was acknowledged by the Music Producers Guild who in 2009 created “The Joe Meek Award for Innovation in Production” as an “homage to [the] remarkable producer’s pioneering spirit”.[9] In 2014, Meek was ranked the greatest producer of all time by NME, elaborating: “Meek was a complete trailblazer, attempting endless new ideas in his search for the perfect sound. … The legacy of his endless experimentation is writ large over most of your favourite music today.”

    He committed suicide in 1967.

  29. From there it’s no place for the meek- What if this clue/hint is alluding somehow to the movie Indiana Jones? In the movie, I don’t remember which, the clue was ‘the meek shall inherit the earth’ or something like that. Indy reasons that a meek person is a ‘penitent’ person and one -action- a penitent person does is to kneel. That was the right solving of that clue and he didn’t loose his head.

    In the poem, it’s no place for the meek, could be an action that we take as we unravel the clues. In the field, maybe we come in sight of something ??? that may prompt us to kneel down and that point we should go the opposite way from there. Just throwing ideas out here. It could be as simple as ‘don’t take the road towards the penitentiary’ and go the other way. Lol…

    • That’s interesting Oz10. … a grown person kneeling would make them the size equal to a small child. Maybe that’s why f said it might be easier for a child to locate the treasure? ??
      Just a thought…

    • Oz10: naturally with my avatar, your very idea had crossed my mind before. 😉 (Scene was from Last Crusade.) But it could be something even simpler than that: cross the road. I think for many searchers (and I include myself), the transition point from driving to walking is when you’ve “put in below the home of Brown.” So if you’ve been driving, you’ve naturally just left some sort of road (whether asphalt or dirt) to park. Was Forrest hinting of this in TTOTC:

      “One said to the other, talking about me of course, ‘He’d run away from home but he’s not allowed to cross the street,’ and they laughed real hard and didn’t even care who heard. How humiliating do you think that was for a kid my age? And sure enough, it had to happen at the big church social when absolutely everyone was there. Well, I didn’t say anything out loud at the time but I certainly remembered, and I’ve loathed those old biddies ever since.”

      Someone the other day correctly pointed out that a biddie is a chicken, and of course we all know the riddle/joke about the chicken crossing the road. But Forrest doesn’t stop there:

      “Besides, I could cross the dumb street anytime I wanted to and it was stupid of them to say I couldn’t. I walked to school almost every day didn’t I? And cars were whizzing every which way weren’t they?”

      A lot of text to devote to simply crossing the street, and notice all the W alliteration in that last sentence.

      • Zap,

        That was me that pointed out the biddie/chicken connection as well as the connection between the “No Place for Biddies” chapter and “…no place for the meek.”

        Another noteworthy point is that crossing the street was within the context of running away from home. Could this imply when crossing the street during a BOTG search, one would also be moving away from the home of Brown?

        • This particular point is something that just recently jumped out at me while I was on vacation. A guy really has time to think in a vacation…

          🙂

      • ATP: that is an EXCELLENT point about the mirroring of home of Brown and running away from “home”! That’s one of the best thoughts I’ve seen shared here.

      • Zap- the two old biddies are a reference to the two ladies responsible for moving the Buffalo Bill Center of the West across the street from its original location to where it is now.

        I think maybe.

      • actually that was me who pointed out the chapter was very cleverly hinting to chicken crossing the road. I posted it on Treasures Galore. I still have the post too…

        • Candace: probably a dumb question, but what is “Treasures Galore”? Is that a different websiite? I don’t venture far from Dal’s, Jenny’s or Cynthia’s.

        • Hi Candace — a little further research suggests that you may have posted it on Forrest’s blog. Unfortunately, thanks to the actions of spammers (and one in particular whom I won’t glorify by naming), Forrest has removed all the comments.

    • to me this line in the poem tells us we must keep moving to the end after we find the correct warm water the right canyon and last but least the correct HOB I was thinking a minute ago on how the child in Sir Forrest Fenn was born again with this feet what he felt completing such a task so he laughs because it was fun for him. as he knew it would be for all of us placed in a safe place. happy hunting Thank you Sir.

    • Some ideas are worth “throwing out”, that’s fur sure. Knowing details about
      an Indiana Jones movie is pretty specialized knowledge, and not necessary
      for a good solve. But thanks for your posts. As always, IMO.

  30. Hi everyone can someone please confirm this question. First I must tell you that my meek is around Hebgen Lake and earthquake lake which is earthquake country. I remember finding a Newspaper clipping about four years ago cannot find it since. It was from the west Yellowstone newspaper day after earthquake 1959 the front headline said : There is a marvel site down in the Canyon :

      • ive been to this place and it is a marvel still nature can be harsh this place proves it still. but the meek go there every day im sure. it may be a place the meek wont go. just a thought

  31. Just a thought. What if “No place for the meek” referred to a libation of some kind.

    Something like Rye Gulch, Taquila Flats or Vodka Valley? These libations would not be something that the meek would want to partake of – No place for the meek??? Just a thought – JDA

    • would a searcher a thousand years from now or even a hundred years be able to read the book and poem still be able to follow the clues to indulgence? this question bogels my brain we better get on it ladies and gents the places may but the names of spirited or maybe even spirits wont last who knows a stone glass or plastic. might who knows i think the stone has a better chance of surviving

  32. Brave is also mentioned in the poem. In my opinion, a meek (unassuming, quiet person) can also be brave under certain conditions. I am thinking of it as a place that has brave, assertive people. Also, could be kind of spooky.
    Or a place closely guarded, where you would have to be sneaky to remove a bronze chest.

  33. Okay, I’m changing my career path. Yellowstone Park Ranger! Honey, get the kids, we’re moving haha!

    • Hello obsessedWithTheHunt. Talked to a Park Ranger the weekend before last warning my husband and I of a 900 lb. black bear that was in the area and may cross our campsite. She was separated from her cub and was heading to the area. Campers were 15 yards from her taking photos. The Park Ranger told us he got her with a rubber bullet to keep her away and get her to go up higher to get to her cub, but said it was a difficult decision of whom to pelt.

        • * * * * “Campers were 15 yards from her taking photos. The Park Ranger told us he got her with a rubber bullet to keep her away and get her to go up higher to get to her cub, but said it was a difficult decision of whom to pelt.” * * * *

          Nice! 😉

  34. my first search in 2013 was at LeHardy rapids on the Yellowstone river. if it’s “no place for the meek”, then it must be a place for the hardy. “take a flashlight and sandwich” was advice given to the HARDY boys by their father.
    at LeHardy rapids there is no paddle up the river. the LeHardy expedition crashed there.
    I searched under the boardwalk there. no chest.
    but I must say the treasure I found was watching harlequin ducks negotiate the rapids. fascinating…and they can fly too. I am so jealous right now.

    • According to Merriam-Webster, “meek” is an adjective, not a noun. But what
      would they know? They probably think that “halt” means to cease movement.
      As always, IMO.

      • tighterfocus,
        If there is no place for the meek, then it is a place for the opposite of meek. I think we must “know place for the tuff” My opinion of course.

  35. Hello All,

    Only a few months in on the chase, but have lurked here for a little while. Great blog…great folks!

    Just had a quick question. I read on another blog where someone was trying to remember a quote from Fenn regarding NPFTM. The supposed quote said (and I am paraphrasing) that the meek would not go to this place, but that the elderly and young children wouldn’t mind it.

    Anyone recall this? I haven’t been able to locate it anywhere and it is not on Tarry Scant. He wasn’t sure himself either. There is so much material and discussion I can understand the confusion!

    • Friar Tuck, I assume that is a full name, Robin, well the statement has been made about this line and it was not ff who said it in my opinion, “FROM THERE” (It’s) is/are the operative words, another words poem does not insist that you go into NPFTM read as “From there it’s no place for the meek,” so if you choose to go, that is your choice, but no where is the poem INSISTING that you go into there.
      F.T The line you spoke about elderly and young is kinda no brainier, 4 people have died searching in unmeek places. So lets not make it 5.

      TT

  36. Has anyone considered Ojo Caliente no place for the meek? A couple definitions of meek is humble, but also modest. Mr. Fenn wasn’t quite that way when he was river bathing.

  37. glad to share just got back from Laramie WY how ever you spell that just got married my sons truck didn’t make it back to wash thus the trip to while driving home from WY with truck in tow I thought how much i have learned from Forrest Fenn more then any teacher i have ever had that is for sure i must go brave the black footed ferret i guess that made me laugh ty sir

  38. i saw one a couple weeks ago but i need to find the end its beauty was a thought of peace for the meek would be welcome there

    • It’s good to have the freedom to think what you want. This freedom provides
      benefit and enjoyment to me as *well* as to y’all.

      There is a noticeable item relatively near to what I consider to be “the home of Brown”. Some folks may consider this item to be the blaze mentioned in the poem. But that item does not work very well as “the blaze” in the poem’s directions for finding the hidey place. As always, IMO.

  39. Sorry doug,
    But I don’t think FF took back the pinion comment. He said there was something is the statement that he wished he hadn’t said. But, he did not say it was the pinion .

    • Happy to help, Flutterby. That’s what I love about Dal’s: no one person can track everything Forrest has said. This blog provides a great platform to share information that isn’t always *common” knowledge.

  40. Doug and ObsessedWithTheHunt,
    Good luck to you both as you head out to search! At this point, I just want someone to find it. I don’t even care who, although I honestly think it would be awesome if Dal or someone who has done so many trips were the one to find it. Just somebody find it so that I can stop obsessing!

  41. Okay, I will find it, not that you care, I can’t say for certain when that will be.

    Ooops..I’m done searching because my brain hurts a lot, then again, I wonder if I can endure to suffer some more… then again, got to think about that more. OUCH!! that was a twinge of pain.

  42. Jake,
    I don’t think the double Omegas mean what people think they do. I think they are a reminder that FF imagines his father sitting on the edge of a cloud somewhere burning candles on both ends.

  43. If you happen to find yourself on the Madison from where you put in after the other clues, you may be wondering where you go from here.

    From there it’s no place for the meek,
    I truly believe if you made it this far you are on the right track and path of the poem.
    Congratulations!

    You are still in Yellowstone National Park and need to get out seeing it’s no place for Forrest now. He doesn’t like to be around lots of people especially in his old stomping fishing grounds as a young man.

    You put in below the home of Brown and float down the river till you hit the border of the park and that’s the stopping point till you figure the next clue.

    No place for the meek = YNP
    NPFTM = National Park Float To Montana
    Could be Joseph Meek – No hunting or trapping allowed there now but is allowed over the border.
    Could be Meek Reels that don’t like water.
    There’s a few others that some have mentioned here that relate to the park but I get the clue and will stop right there at the border on the Madison till I figure out the next clue.

    Quite frankly it’s all about Fenn and tells me this place is not for him anymore when there are rangers telling him what to do and not to do and rules that did not exist when he was a young man fishing guide there.

    Maybe Forrest is meek to this place now and back when the big changes took place.
    If I was free to explore any place in my childhood and then all of a sudden things changed with law enforcement, I would be meek as well in that area.

      • I did not have to look those words up but I did to see if I had the right meaning. I do not use any obscure definitions for any of the words in the poem. I simplify and I’m sure it’s straightforward.

        I have seen you have asked this question here many times.

        • Thank you for your answer, and thank you for looking up those
          words. I won’t be asking that again. I’m tired of it, and it has
          gotten bothersome for others. As always, IMO.

    • I’ve wondered if biddies are meek. In today’s times of being politically correct, one would not make a statement like that. But, the literary context of TTOTC and the era Mr. Fenn grew up as a child may line up. I know this is simplifying. But the biddies made fun of him not being able to cross the road. But going through the many river bottoms and mountain hikes, with no trail, well…that’s no place for biddies. So now who’s laughing…

      • There are two stories in TToTC that discuss biddies.

        In one, they are older women from the church (classic definition of “old biddies”) mocking him for not being able to cross the street, which Forrest says was dumb of them to say because he could cross the street any time he wanted. That associates them with the role of enforcers of a boundary, but it’s a boundary Forrest knows he can cross if he wants to, no matter what they think. He knows where the edges are.

        In the other, they are younger and described as “borderline biddies” in a Borders bookstore. They are taking their time pecking away at the impulse goodies at the cash register, thus slowing Forrest down in his attempt to leave, but he eventually pays and gets out of there anyway. Once again, they are ineffective guardians associated with a boundary that Forrest crosses.

        If we consider meek = chickens/hens = “old hens”/”biddies”, this suggests “no place for the meek” is an area where you need to be aware of one or more boundaries/borders, and what you are actually allowed to do with regard to those boundaries. You need to be confident of your right to cross before you get there or you may be prevented from proceeding.

        Just my two cents.

        • Very nice analysis Ray. Can’t say I disagree with anything you mentioned.

          On a humorous note someone mentioned (can’t recall where i heard this) that “borderline biddies” was a classic Fennism. (sp.) because they were in a “line” at “Borders” and they were “biddies” hence “borderline biddies”

          • I already have. I’m not sure if I am totally happy with it, but I have a location in mind that fits, and I get there by passing through the previous clues (as I see them).

        • Forrest’s church biddies didn’t seem at all afraid of him (as a child) either. Old hens aren’t necessarily afraid of everything, but they are always clucking at each other about gossip. And if you make a big enough noise, they scatter like the wind.

          • My biddies are different than your biddies.
            And that’s why it’s not a hint, just like meek in the poem has nothing to do with other people’s feelings.
            Biddie up!

          • I agree, the biddies are not a clue, just hint. But I can see how they would help explain the “meek” clue. In one of my solves, anyway.

            As always, I could be wrong.

          • I’m not good at digging up quotes chief, but weren’t the chickens scattered by helicopters?

    • Or the opposite – Perhaps the TC is in a spot that you have to stoop over because of an overhang or something like that. Maybe that’d why a child could more easily find it. Who knows? Not me – JDA

    • The word “meek” appears relatively early in the poem, compared to other info
      that could lead one to the TC. So the hidey spot’s description/configuration is
      not likely to relate much to the word “meek”. You might want to investigate the
      local geography (names of places) that the poem suggests. I think this could
      be helpful. As always, in my opinion.

  44. Time to move on but there is no “The end is ever drawing nigh;” page so i will stop and ponder here.
    Surely it should have its own page.
    I do believe it is the middle clue with the word that is key.

  45. Idle Dreamer You hang in there and heal well time to be positive and conquer the down fall time to be grateful for not loosing your limb or leg its hard but we all wish you a god speed healing
    hope to see you soon on the trail with botg running take care

    • Thanks Jeff, I will definitely be taking it easy. I was ‘sorely’ tempted to make boots on the ground despite the pain. If I had gone I wouldn’t have gotten the news that I needed more medication (I take it as a bad sign that the culture showed up well under 24 hours instead of the 3 days noted on my discharge papers). Which honestly makes me wonder if failing Forrest’s advice “Be mindful of nature and your health, but not in that order. f” might have been my undoing (thankfully I did heed it).

      I only walk on trails as otherwise I wouldn’t be able to see what was beside me. Sometimes you have to sit down and let the solution present itself. I am definitely doing a lot of sitting.

  46. Ninth clue! I just got it! Lmao.

    Wait, having a Dory fish moment…wait…what was it I wasn’t suppose to forget.

    Shells. Follow the shells.

    No bells, it was follow the bells.

    Nimooooooo!!!!!

    Love this movie. Lots of parallels to the chase journey i think.

  47. Here’s a new thought I haven’t seen yet. FF says everything is straight-forward. I think many people look at “From there” and believe the “there” is the PIBTHOB. What if FF is looking forward. The next line is “The End…” What if that’s the “there.” Not from a place we are standing, but maybe a place we are going, or can see.

    Imagine yourself on a street corner giving directions to a friend. You point to a distant location and say “from there, it’s…”

    This isn’t how I look at it, just an alternative that might be helpful!

    • I have a general solve but there could be a twist to it. I think he tells you to PIBTHOB and then from there It’s NPFTM. You can either end here and not go to the paddle because it’s the last place IT is used and he tells you the end is drawing nigh. If you continue on perhaps you walk right on by the treasure to heavy loads and water high? Or perhaps he’s telling you not to take the paddle at the fork and continue on in the other creek? I’m fairly confident I have solved all the clues, there’s some doubt as there could be several options here at this point depending on the interpretation of the wording.

      • Only cowboys and fisher persons know what you’re talking about. I’m only one, so I understand half.

        BTW, Yellerstone is perty this tam of yer.

  48. I think to decypher “npftm” you have to be below the hob on your test solve, like they correlate together to get your definition. Then you can test its relevance to your solve.

    • If you use acronyms such as “npftm”, you probably should lean toward “hoB”
      instead of “hob”. FF advised to not mess with his poem. Otherwise, I pretty much agree with your above posting of November 4, 2018. As always, in my opinion.

  49. My nephew was murdered in Playa del Carmen, Mexico last weekend. I urge everyone, do not travel to Mexico. There doesn’t seem to be a safe place anywhere in Mexico anymore. I pray the three that killed my nephew are captured before they choose to skip over the U.S. Border.

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