Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Sixty


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665 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Sixty

    • “He’s not saying it is, he says. And he’s not saying it’s not.”

      One thing for sure — he’s been consistent all along in his ambiguity about this. Or is it clarity?

      Most intriguing comment IMO — “I have a way of knowing whether it has been found or not.” I know he has said he would know, and when pressed about how by the lady with the NM PBS TV show years ago, he said something about the finder would be the kind of person who would want to make it known. This makes it sound like he’s depending on something other than the nature of the finder.

      • Most hilarious reply: “Well, I am 87 years old. Give me some options.”

        1st runner up, considering that the Reporter’s target audience is the alternative lifestyles demographic (not that there’s anything wrong with that): “You voted for Hillary, didn’t you?”

        Too, too funny! One of the best interviews I have seen or read.

      • Mr Fenn, my brain is trying to decide whether that means you didn’t bury the treasure or whether your saying you did bury it might get you in trouble if it is found where we shouldn’t be digging? Is it possible to clarify further?

        • Has your brain found The Blaze? The actual correct and genuine Blaze? I’m of the opinion that once that is found, it just won’t matter whether TC was buried or not.

          If someone finds THE blaze, looks quickly down, then fails to find TC because of some confusion over whether it was actually ‘buried’ or not, then let’s discuss that.

          But I don’t think we’ll be having that discussion.

        • If I had carried 42 pounds of gold, I wouldn’t have the strength to bury it also.

      • He was pretty adamant with the reporter that he hid the treasure and wasn’t saying if that meant buried or not. His response seemed to be out of frustration at her repeated use of buried rather than hid/hidden.

        I’m with you, FF—you hid that treasure and any time you reference or blurt out buried, I will hear you good that such means hidden.

        Now if only you would clear up the whole hid the treasure by making two trips from your car and it was done in one afternoon thing that keeps getting debated here… 🙂

      • Thank you for the clarification Forrest, especially since I’m in the it’s hidden camp.


      • Thanks Mr. Fenn, for the clarification, one more time.
        I wonder if anybody is listening?
        Clearly Clueless

    • Dal,

      In the TTOTC, Forrest said he really like Catcher in the Rye! Why did he tell this reporter something totally different about CitR?

      • Bryan-
        I thought that was consistent with other times Forrest has mentioned Catcher In The Rye. He’s never said he “liked” the book…only that it was popular and he felt he could write like that because it didn’t have any big words in it.

        As far as I know Forrest said on several occasions that he heard that Salinger was a good writer and so he started reading Catcher In The Rye and based his book, The Thrill Of The Chase on the way Salinger wrote Catcher In The Rye. Forrest said it took him a day and a half to finish Catcher In The Rye. I always thought he liked it. He talks about it in the Moby Dickins interview and a couple other places.

  1. Hi Dal — have you considered having a new Searcher Discussion page for comments about either or both TFTW and OUAW? There is a discussion page for “The Book,” but I assumed you intended that to be specific to TTOTC.

    • Again, thanks Dal — I was very impressed with how quickly you set up the two new pages. I think they should generate a lot of activity. 🙂

  2. * * * * Zap, from the recently closed odds-n-ends – “It’s just at no point does Forrest ever explicitly advise *us* to look up words in a dictionary as part of our poem decipherment task. If a dictionary is essential, why wouldn’t he just include it in his “excellent resource” list? It’s not like it would be a huge clue to anyone — seems like everyone’s looking in dictionaries anyway.

    “I never thought I had to believe everything I said and if I had to look up a word I just wouldn’t use it.” –TTOTC pg. 14.

    If people want to consult a dictionary and/or a thesaurus, by all means have at it. I just question if some critical clue is hiding in an obscure or obsolete word definition, does Joe Sixpack really have much of a chance?” * * * *

    Along the same lines, this Q&A from Jon Lackman’s 2015 e-mail interview w/ ff (Scrapbook 167):

    JL: . . . Can hunters really get to the treasure location with just a good map, the poem, and a decent knowledge of words?

    FF: . . . In your last question if you change the last word to geography, my answer would be yes.


    • Jake: excellent point, and thank you for the reminder: geography: yes, knowledge of words: no.

      • Zap wrote: “geography: yes, knowledge of words: no.”

        Oh really. The entire poem consists of words. To deny the importance of word “knowledge” is to deny the entire poem.

        I know what you are getting at. But searchers are forever taking Forrest’s verbal comments at face value. Searchers are also forever basing their major search decisions on some isolated comment FF makes … forgetting his other verbal comments.

        This fixation on a literal interpretation of some isolated verbal comment is really quite annoying. And I would suggest it is one reason the chest has not been found.

        Ken (in Texas)

        • Just my thoughts, and although I believe I have the one solution, one never knows until it’s go time. Maybe there is no specialized knowledge of words needed because each word means exactly what it says, at face value. The treasure is covered by wood, ff did not cover it, so my guess would be that he placed it somewhere and the burying or covering was done through a natural process… hence his reasoning for waiting years before revealing it… It works in my solve and gives it more meaning, but may not work for yours. 🙂 God bless all those searching for meaning.

      • JA and Zaphod,

        In my study of words in the dictionary, I’ve been reminded of words we already know that just happen to have definitions that are geographical. That is how I”m using the dictionary. Here are some examples

        but (sounds like) butt= can mean a ‘rising ground, the trunk of a tree, especially the part just above the ground. adjoin or meet end to end, a liquid measure.

        I sounds like eye= can mean eye of a storm which is a geographical term

        place=deposit (think deposit of soil or rock in the mountains)

        waters is already a geographical term

        canyon is already a geogrphical term

        down= grassy hillside which is a geographical description

        creek is already a geographical term

        So yes, the dictionary can remind us of less common meanings of words we already know. Common sense says that if FF had to look up meanings of words, then it makes sense to do so. Its not special knowledge. Its reminding yourself of other uses of the words in the poem. How might you know that a word might have an alternate use that applies to geography unless you look it up.

        • Flutterby: I have a pretty comprehensive knowledge of English words, so I feel pretty safe in avoiding dictionaries as a clue-solving resource. But I do not begrudge others the option of looking up words with which they are unfamiliar. Nevertheless, Forrest made a point of correcting an interviewer who specified the need for a “decent knowledge of words.” That is surely something to take into consideration.

    • Normally, I wouldn’t think a dictionary is needed or very helpful. But since this hunt started, I have learned that some folks think that “halt” means to “cool down”.

      The good news — for searchers with a good vocabulary — is that people who don’t know the meaning of “halt” aren’t going to solve the poem correctly and be competitive in this treasure hunt.

      The bad news is that this lack of knowledge doesn’t bode well for the future of humanity.

      The above is part of my opinion. Good luck to us ALL.

  3. Looking for some ideas.

    Doesn’t it seem strange the all of the searchers seem to have problems with what most people would call the last clues.

    The same clues that Forrest has said should be the easiest clue.

    What are we missing?

    • Jim, what “we” seem to be “missing” is that searchers need not even bother with trying to solve the “last clues” UNTIL searchers have correctly solved the first clue or two.

      Then, and only then, will the “last clues” be relatively easy.

      Ken (in Texas)

      • *Well*, not extremely easy . For example, finding the blaze isn’t a very easy thing to do for most folks, in my opinion.

        I hope FF isn’t stressing out about the location of his belt buckle (or about anything else).

      • IMO…I believe that the last clue is just as tough to figure out as the first clue. “Difficult” but not impossible, nothing is gonna be easy… of course this is just my opinion… see ya

        • I think what helps narrow down the correct first clue is the blaze.

          • One wouldn’t be able to find the blaze without having a
            pretty good idea of what the first clue is about. Jeez.

    • Hi Jim, I wish I knew. I do not know. hoB seems to be a major sticking point as does the big picture. We need to look at the big picture and there are no shortcuts. Where do the lines all cross? How does a knowledge of geography help me? Why ate lots of people getting within 500 feet? Why is this spot special to Forrest? and on and on and on and on and on and on…..Dave

      • Forrest said several were within 500′. He said to look up the meaning of several. more than two but not many.

        • Hi Kyle, Actually, he used the word “lots” for how many people have been within 500 feet. It was a videotaped interview and you can find it. Look on Tarry Scant. Dave

        • Kyle: Forrest has said LOTS of people have been within 500 feet, not just “several”.

          • It’s almost useless to know that LOTS of people have been within 500 feet of the TC. Most people (dare I say LOTS?) are not searching for the TC. If it sat in FF’s house in Santa Fe for several years, probably thousands of people were within 500 feet of the TC during this time.

            Read the blogs for entertainment. Or don’t. All IMO.

          • But what if Lot A only had three people, and Lot B had two. Then LOTS of people would only be 5

      • Dave from KC,
        You said, ” Where do the lines all cross?”
        IMO, they don’t. They are a circle.

        • You may be more of a trig ace (or a geometry ace) than you wish
          to admit. I never thought of “where all the lines cross” as much of an important hint. IMO.

    • Ken in TX: “Then, and only then, will the “last clues” be relatively easy.” Your statement is demonstrably false, given that people solved the first two clues at least 6 years ago. You might counter that they didn’t “KNOW” they had solved the first clues, but that’s immaterial. Anyone who solves the first two clues today is in the same boat, and it hasn’t helped them any more than the folks 6 years ago.

      • Zap wrote: “Your statement is demonstrably false, given that people solved the first two clues at least 6 years ago”
        There you go again, Zap, coming to conclusions that DEPEND, quite literally, on some isolated verbal comment FF made in the past.

        Would you now like to dive into the verbal comments he has made about whether the chest is buried? And the resulting confusion that such verbal comments have yielded?

        My impression is that most searchers, apparently including you, have given up on the poem, and now are basing their search conclusions almost entirely on FF’s transient verbal comments.

        Ken (in Texas)

      • Ken: I use the ATF’s only to shoot down crappy solutions, I don’t start with them to construct a solution. Many searchers solutions are lousy because they are invalidated by multiple things Forrest has generously shared with folks after publishing TTOTC. It’s dumbfounding, but people still search in churches, graveyards, the Rio Grande, and places south of Santa Fe.

        From every reasonably indication, the chest is not buried. Yes — Forrest has mistakenly said it was on at least one occasion, but he has never written point-blank that it was buried or that it was not buried. I certainly don’t begrudge him the occasional misspeak — especially considering the scores of hours of interviews he has given over the years. People make verbal mistakes all the time — and often are quite unaware they have done so.

    • Jim- here’s whats missing…look indoors for the chest. and outdoors for the treasure.

      I think.

        • Aaron- nothing stopped me from finding the treasure (the great outdoors) I have done so many times. and then I found the chest, took it (a photo) and left in peace. these days I’m concentrating on finding the bronze box. and of that I will not speak. thank you.

  4. Thanks Jake, I’ll throw a few bones. We did get a lot of hiking in. According to my Fitbit we did 100 miles in 13 days. Only half was search related.

    • I do hope you will post, and with plenty of pictures. I used to hike in The Bob annually with buddies who for various reasons quit backpacking. That’s griz-rich real estate, so I won’t go there solo and haven’t been there for years. But Glacier and surrounds are some of our nation’s finest wilderness. You were fortunate to enjoy it as I’m sure you know.

  5. I believe not buried. I mispoke once and said buried. He quickly corrected me.

  6. Zap

    If you don’t mind I’m carrying over from the previous OandE.

    Speaking of Fs MOST of the places the clues reference did exist when F was a kid.

    You mentioned two possibilities and not the one I prefer.

    Taking him literally he may have said MOST because he does not KNOW that all existed when he was a kid.


    • Lug: that is a VERY reasonable possibility. It saves him the trouble of researching if he knows for a fact that a majority of the places existed when he was a kid.

  7. Zaphod,
    You said, “at no point does Forrest ever explicitly advise *us* to look up words in a dictionary as part of our poem decipherment task” That is a true statement. Yet, he tells us that there are hints in TTOTC if we can recognize them. So when his boss tells him he’s been canned and he doesn’t know what that means, he asks his mother. She tells him he’s been fired. I believe that is a subtle hint that there may be meanings of words that are less common to us which might help us understand the poem.

    “I never thought I had to believe everything I said and if I had to look up a word I just wouldn’t use it.” –TTOTC pg. 14 I actually think that this statement is a subtle suggestion that FF is describing places or processes in nature in a more simplistic way than you might read about them in a science book. WWWH is a good example. There are a number of options that could be the answer. One of them is freeze (means to halt). So is he describing freeze when he talks about place WWWH? It also can mean (to hold), such as in an endorheic basin. Is he describing that using simpler words? It also can mean “rein”. Is he talking about the process in which warm waters rain?

    Unless we are certain that we really understand all of the definitions of the words in the poem, we might be missing something. He has subtly told us the words mean exactly what they say. So what exactly do they say? Without a dictionary, how can you be sure?

    • Hi again, Flutterby — playing some late-night catchup. Regarding the slang term of being “canned” to mean fired, I will say I’m skeptical that Forrest didn’t know what that meant at the time (assuming the story is true at all). Not everything in TTOTC is truthful, as you must know.

      Regarding Forrest’s avoidance of words that he felt he would have to look up, you wrote: ” I actually think that this statement is a subtle suggestion that FF is describing places or processes in nature in a more simplistic way than you might read about them in a science book.”

      Pretty much every word in the poem is simple … country-spoken, you might say.

      “WWWH is a good example. There are a number of options that could be the answer. One of them is freeze (means to halt). So is he describing freeze when he talks about place WWWH?”

      IMO, no.

      “It also can mean (to hold), such as in an endorheic basin. Is he describing that using simpler words?”

      Again, IMO, no.

      “It also can mean “rein”. Is he talking about the process in which warm waters rain?”


      “Unless we are certain that we really understand all of the definitions of the words in the poem, we might be missing something. He has subtly told us the words mean exactly what they say. So what exactly do they say? Without a dictionary, how can you be sure?”

      WWWH is far simpler than your three examples, requires no dictionary knowledge whatsoever, and many children know the answer to the riddle. They just don’t know the *precise* answer, and without the precise answer you can’t proceed. All in my opinion, naturally.

  8. Interesting conversation about words. I believe Forrest Fenn when he downplays knowledge of words because every time I think I have the solution to a clue, it’s not based on a weird definition. Granted, I haven’t found the chest and others may disagree. The blaze has me befuddled once again because my most recent interpretation was based on TTOTC and not just on the poem. It still may work, but I digress. It’s been my experience that the clues are hidden in the poem without the need for esoteric definitions.

    Last week, I was searching along a muddy brook in a national forest where someone had drilled a lot of holes into the soil around the roots of trees. The holes were all exactly the same size, about 2 inches in diameter, presumably wide enough to enable someone to put a metal detector into them. If the holes had been made by burrowing animals, they wouldn’t be perfectly round, all the same size, and lined up in a row at the base of a single tree. I hope the holes don’t do any lasting damage. It does make me appreciate why Mr. Fenn once suggested that he had to be careful not to identify searchers who had been close to the treasure because he knew of at least one person who would tear the place apart.

    There also appeared to be a fair amount of poison oak — not surprising along a Western stream — which we dealt with by showering thoroughly with soap and water afterward. It seemed to work swimmingly — ha ha.

    Now, if I could just find a search partner who actually enjoys being out there. Maybe someone will find the treasure by then. We’ll see.

  9. A good map could be slang for a dictionary. Why paint yourself into a corner and not keep all avenues open? I for one have used a dictionary extensively
    I know the common definition of some words have changed over the years.
    Depression era in Texas is far different than today.

    • TimW wrote: “A good map could be slang for a dictionary.”
      Tim … Of course it could. But most searchers take FF’s comments quite literally. Which is so much easier than to … think for oneself..

      Thanks for offering an alternative to recent comments that promulgate the same literal meaning of everything Fenn says.

      Ken (in Texas)

  10. “A good map could be slang for a dictionary” I believe to be brilliant thinking, but I would take it a step further: A good map could be slang for a good dictionary. Remember, he once replied to a comment about the blaze by saying, “Not in my dictionary.” There are maps like you would find in a brochure, and then there are excellent comprehensive maps with nothing left out.

  11. “Not in my dictionary” anagrams to “In monty dictionary” so I think the real question should be “Who’s Monty?”

    • There is Merriam-Webster, and quite be a few other dictionaries. Then there’s the Monty dictionary authored by Monty Hall. Since he was the host of “Let’s Make a Deal” many of the words have to do with making deals, or bargaining. So it’s not much of a thorough dictionary to use, but could be who “Monty” is. I’m not sure if Forrest ever met Monty Hall but it’s possible. I’m fairly certain that Forrest was never on “Let’s make a Deal” unless he came to the show dressed as a pirate, but that is highly doubtful.

  12. IMPORTANT!!! – I used the wrong paper for the video and made 1 mistake. I missed one DROP CAP because “Flywater” is one of the chapters that has 2 drop caps. Here are the correct dropcaps:

    Drop Caps for each chapter above (in order as above). Note that I put the whole word, and () around the Drop Char:

    (W)hen and (T)here

    So the 9th one has both WHEN and THERE from Flywater!

  13. I know many won’t agree with this, certainly AGK won’t, but here is my take on all this.

    The memoir is KEY, not required, but KEY. It has ALL the answers we seek, they are there, IF you let the poem guide you to them.

    “The Memoir” is more focused on his PAST prior to going to Santa Fe NM. Clearly “The Memoir” is about his past in almost every single chapter. In fact, his time from 1973 – to 1988 (when he knew where to hide the chest) is barely discussed AT ALL.

    It was the TIME in his past. It was his relatives from the PAST. His coach and friends from the PAST. The Memoir is NOT about fishing and its NOT about how he got rich in New Mexico. That is NOT what Forrest is about, he wants to be back where his heart was.

    I don’t think it takes a rocket scientist to see that money is not whats important to Forrest. In fact, he wanted to die with only $50. I personally feel that Forrest was so focused on his career and getting rich, that the moments he enjoyed with his family slipped on by. Forrest gets rich just in time to realize everyone is gone now. We all do that… We focus on our careers and by the time we reach the end, we realize that is was the time spent getting there, the chase, that we seek. The end goal of being rich is just an illusion we reach for, and in the end it doesn’t bring what we want, time!

    He got all his riches and he FELT BAD when his Father told him “Gee, you made more money in 15 minutes than it took me over 20 years to pay for our house.” In other words – Money cannot buy what he wants, TIME and the PAST to do it all over again and “change everything this time around”

    Read Flywater… I think it pretty much gives the bottom line of when and where, so perhaps it is no coincidence that the drop caps are “W”hen and “T”here. There = Where.

    Ignore my advice, just do what Forrest said, read the book and the poem. Understand that poem better than Forrest does because that is the only way to find the chest. Our definitions for the clues mean zero, we need to use TTOTC to learn what Forrest defines the clues as. After 8 years it is silly to even debate if it is required.

    Oh… Punctuation matters… Scrapbooks 178 and 188 explain that very clearly… Forrest knows the rules, the only way to break and bend them is to know them. Learn like he did, that is what I am focused on 😉

  14. So I am curious why the link to my video was removed, and now my 2 other posts are out of context?

    I put alot of effort and thought into things I like to share. This forum is very bad to track and have threaded conversations, so I put things in a video instead. I made no money from my channel.


  15. Well, I got back from my trip a couple of weeks ago, but I forgot something. Now I have to drive 2,600 miles to fetch it. Don’t you just hate when that happens?

    • WOW! And I thought my 1400 miles was a chunk but 2600 miles to retrieve something is mind boggling. But then again, I’ve drove that 1400 miles back home twice just to mow the lawn and then do it all over again. Good luck and hopefully it’s still there!

      • I was surprised that I didn’t run across any grizz myself, Deano. Even after 7 days hiking in a wilderness area. I have a healthy respect for those bruins.
        Something very obvious dawned on me after I got home, that I feel very foolish to have missed. So I have to go back, even if I have to make that drive again so soon.
        You have a safe trip yourself !

  16. Veronica,
    If you forgot the chest, I’m sure any of us would willingly go pick it up for you if you just tell us where to find it. LOL

    • Lol!! Sure thing, Flutter- if I could only remember where I left it… it’s 10x10x5, bronze, and weighs about 42lbs. If anyone finds it, please return it. There is a $100 reward. ( anyone?)
      On a ridiculous side note, I DID lose my Texas drivers license somewhere on a mountain side. Can you believe that? No one is ever going to find that thing where I was climbing.( I grabbed it and put it in my pack before a hike, just in case I hurt myself or worse. )

  17. Please do not go back and look for it. Texas DVM can hand you another within minutes.

    • Oh, No way would I ever find it. I said that jokingly. I already have a replacement.

  18. One thing that has now occurred to me at two different BOTG locations (both at the final solve spot for said location) is the finding of a rock with an old rusted baling wire wrapped around it. At one spot I found one rock and at my last spot, in the wood, was two rocks both with the bale wire around them. Searching Google hasn’t given me any rhyme or reason why people (or a person) is doing this. The locations are such that they definitely aren’t survey markers (both cases they were somewhat hidden). Near the double rock spot also turned up an old moccasin (just one). Any insight into this would be greatly appreciated.

    • @ideal dreamer re old wire on rocks. One thought I have is remains of a drag from a trapper, take the trap leave the wire….just a thought.

      • That is definitely a possibility as near the first one (within 400 feet) we did find a rabbit trap. Also seems like the most logical reason so thank you.

  19. Well I’m finally going to be able to go to the area where I believe the treasure is at. The first time I tried this year the road was closed because of a wash out. On the second planned trip was stopped because of a mudslide along the route. Yet here I am faced with a road that is closed because of a flash flood, thankfully this time I will be making a small detour. It sometimes feel as though something is trying to prevent me in getting to my solve.

    Whether or not I find the treasure, as I have mentioned before, this is my last time out. When I return I will share my full solution, either way. Now I can get away from those feelings of anxiety of hoping no one will get there before I do, which I’m sure some if not most have had that feeling.

    So I’m off to my solve and will know by the days end tomorrow whether I’m right or wrong. I tried very hard to keep my search simple, just by using the words in the poem and a map along with using reasoning, logic and using imagination of sorts and of course a little geographic knowledge. Almost for got, I did use a dictionary only to confirm some of what I already knew of certain word meanings.


    • Good Luck CharlieM. I mean it. I would like to see you succeed. Even if you publish, I hope that you stay on the blog. I have enjoyed and appreciated your input – JDA

      • Charlie, You said above…”It sometimes feel as though something is trying to prevent me in getting to my solve”. I AM WITH YOU ON THAT!!! At times I think it’s the Indian spirits just playing games with my mojo…LOL! Totally understand where you are coming from! I actually gave myself an Indian name such as the tribal leader’s would do for their own…I figured if the Chief or whomever was to a name it would be 2Chitts! Cuz I don’t give 2Chitts what my family and friends say, I’m going to find this darn treasure! Also, I plan on sharing my final visit to my solve here in a day or two as well. I don’t know how many people have had the SAME feelings of anxiety and nerves shot! I’m guessing EVERYONE has! I know I mentioned my solve to one person and the only reason I did that is because I believe he is an honorable man and an even better person!
        Also, GOOD LUCK CHARLIE!!! Stay safe and hopefully the Great Chief Joseph will guide you to the riches! Great time had by all no matter what! No regrets….

        • Good Luck Deano – May good fortune be with you – AND TRY and STAY SAFE!!! – JDA

        • Deano—

          Could you give a basic description of yourself. Let me know if you wear glasses—how long your hair is—stuff like that. Don’t worry it’s not like I’m going to make a voodoo doll of you or something like that. I just kinda want to know what some of the searchers look like is all–completely innocent request–really. About how tall are you?

          • My guess is you’ve seen me and want to validate your eyes? Old.and grumpy…it’ll take a good 100 voodoo needles at least to ruffle my feathers Sparrow. 🙂

          • Veronica, it’s always fun dodging BEARS! DA BEARS! 🙂 Thanks and good luck to you as well!

    • Have a great vacation CharlieM!
      I can take 1 or 2 vacations a year & what better places to visit in the Rockies.

  20. Toby’s fictional account of the day Forrest hid his chest is deceptively entertaining. He’s aware that viewers skip around his videos and does not seem too concerned that some searchers may actually believe it’s Mr Fenn’s words.

    • (Toby: Thanks for editing the title of your video and adding “by Toby Younis”.
      I think it will help to deter any unnecessary confusion).

    • Mr Toby calls forums ‘archaic’.

      Some searchers consider Mr Toby ‘archaic’. And they’re being polite.

      • From the start rumors and hearsay have unwittingly weaved their way into the fiber of the Chase. Disclaimers aside I think that Toby wrote his very detailed story cleverly mixing fact and fiction as an experiment to see if somebody at some point quotes from it believing it was actually written by Fenn.
        (I would like to think that Mr Fenn does not eat peanut butter sandwiches or own a leather thong 🙂 )

  21. dang I just lost my girl friend 2 days ago so got to go look for another one see you guys later

  22. I believe that the line in Forrest’s poem “But tarry scant with marvel gaze” is an action more than a clue. I think all it means is, don’t stand there too long starring at the treasure, just grab it and go! I’m not sure if it’s because it’s somewhere that you would need to move out quickly or just for security reasons. If it is somewhere that you will need to move quickly, then that might be a clue all in it’s own. So you may start looking into places that have intermittent water flows or heavy traffic. Just a thought.


    • G- tarry scant (stay short) marvel gaze (with wonder look) is exactly our action while at a museum moving from display to display.

      I think.

      • dodo,
        Did the 9 clues bring you to the blaze (feet)?
        Or are the 9 clues only for the treasure?
        If the chest is in Draper which I highly doubt, why haven’t you retrieved it yet?

        • Jake three answers for you…
          1.no the nine clues did not lead to the blaze, the two hidden capital F’s hidden in TTOTC lead to the feet.
          2. yes nine clues lead to the treasure and end of rainbow.
          3.the chest is not to be retrieved, only taken (photo).

          I think.

          • dodo: “3.the chest is not to be retrieved, only taken (photo).”

            So basically what you’re saying is everyone here is wasting there time looking for the chest that’s worth a few million & we should just stop looking.

            “Most of the searchers are very bright and make intelligent comments, either by email or on the blogs, but there seems to be more attention paid to the blaze than to the first clue. Perhaps that’s why the treasure hasn’t been found. f ”

            So, no one has found the treasure or the chest from what F says. Your statements indicate everyone that’s gone out in the wilderness have found the treasure but not the chest which you think is in Draper.

            I’m not sure why I’m entertaining this kind of thinking. I must be bored.

          • Jake- no, I’m saying everyone here should concentrate on the chest mentioned in the poem. this chest is not the treasure. this chest is not the bronze box. this chest is not indulgence.
            I’m saying there is triple entendre at work. your first search will lead to the treasure which is the great outdoors. next, look for the chest of the poem, indoors at the museum. and then your adventure really begins when you finally search for the bronze box.
            Jake, I thought that guy Bob schooled you over at Mike’s blog? He’s pretty dumb but not as dumb as me.

            I think.

          • treasure chest
            bronze chest

            They are all the same to me.
            Your time may be better spent playing Canasta.
            Over & out to pasture….

          • Jake this is why I don’t go to Mike’s and now I am hearing it here.

            I am surprised Dal allows the subterfuge about his identity.

          • Lug,
            Everyone has an opinion.
            Some crazier than others & some so unbelievable, you have to say something.
            I question why some people are still in this chase & try to convince logical thinkers otherwise.

          • At Mike’s you cannot say anything about any theory without him chiming in to say Fenn has the treasure, I took a picture, sent it to Fenn, there is no treasure, everybody is wrong.

            Here at least there are so many people that we can ignore him.

          • Dodo

            Hopefully within the next 6 weeks I can get my flight money together and your words like your name will be extinct!……….’Indulgence’ is out there waiting imo, Mr Fenn is a word bending genius NOT a conman!

          • Butch- and that makes you a genius too because you have figured out what hes talking about..

            tip ‘o the hat my friend.
            and best ‘o luck.

          • Dodo bird…may I ask how you came up with 2 hidden capital FF’s in TTOTC? I think you’re thinking outside the box and to me it makes a lot of sense!! IMO of course. I’m totally with you on this. And Fenn said he has a way of knowing if someone has found it so all 3 of your statements ring true for me. Let me know whatcha think on the FF’s and how you came up with that please. I don’t think you’re crazy!

          • Deano- in the chapter “Bessie and me” look at the footstool. under where the cow’s tail is tied….capital F.

            in the chapter “teachers with ropes” look at the first little girl in front of the teacher, the bow on the back of her dress, under the bow….capital F.

            there is a scrapbook here on Dal’s that shows two capital F’s carved in an aspen tree. tree carvings were traditional blazes or trailmarkers. so, find the blaze; look quickly down. Find the two capital F’s in TTOTC and look quickly down to see many feet. feet mark the trail in the form of footprints. there’s your trailmarker or blaze…feet.
            when you are at the treasure (the great outdoors) look quickly down at your own feet marking the trail with footprints. take the treasure(photos) and put them in a scrapbook
            and when at the Draper, its the feet of Harold McCracken at the chest that are the blaze. take photos of THAT chest and go in peace.

            I think.

    • G,
      I believe that ” “But tarry scant with marvel gaze” is a description, and not an action. IMO

  23. Frank,

    Just follow the directions in the poem and it will lead you right to her.


    • lol thanks Pinatubocharlie – I didn’t know where to start but with your help im sure ill be a winner

  24. Sorry if this has been covered. Does anyone know what type of paper stock Forrest used for his autobiography thats inside the chest?

    • Fascinating query, Fins up. (left…right..left..right, left, right leftrightleftright)

      I digress…what possible insight is to be gained by knowing what type of paper stock was used?

      If it is important, isn’t the type of ink used important too?

      • Good call on the ink,as i would like to know that as well. Thanks for the reply.

  25. Fins up –

    Yes the paper stock was Tarry Scant and the typeface font was Marvel Gaze. You can buy Tarry Scant paper at the Home of Brown in Cody.

    Does that help?

    Lugnutz is making a joke

  26. Jake, you say FF says nobody has found the treasure or the chest yet your quote from him only mentions treasure. Do you know of one regarding just the chest?

  27. I’ve noticed some conflicting statements between different sites and posts and I was wondering if any of you could shed some light on this:
    Has Forrest actually said how many clues could be solved with just a map and the poem? (In other words has he actually said that you have to have boots on ground for a complete solve?) I’ve noticed in my research that some say only two clues can be found with just a map, some say four, and then there’s some that say all of them.

    • It’s been sliced and diced many ways, Kevin, but the simplest answer was given to Jon Lackman in a 2015 interview:

      “Question – How much progress can be made by someone just thinking and searching the Internet from home? (Another way of saying this: How many clues can only be decoded in situ?)”

      “Answer – All of them, in theory, but not likely in practice. A searcher must go to the site to find the treasure. FF”


    • Hi Kevin: Forrest has never been definitive about how many clues can be solved as an “armchair treasure hunter” without BOTG. Certainly at least the first one must be. I think the closest guidance Forrest has provided on this topic was this Q&A from May 2015 (posted on Dal’s site on 2/27/2017):

      “How much progress can be made by someone just thinking and searching the Internet from home? (Another way of saying this: How many clues can only be decoded in situ?)”

      Fenn’s reply: “All of them, in theory, but not likely in practice. A searcher must go to the site to find the treasure.”

      It’s sort of an odd answer because he seems to be answering a question that wasn’t specifically asked. “All of them, in theory” is not a satisfactory answer to the first question, and surely he’s not suggesting that “all of them” is the answer to how many clues can *only* be decoded in situ. But if Forrest is trying to say that all clues could *theoretically* be solved from home, that would imply that there is no clue that is only solvable if you are physically there to see it/hear it/smell it/experience it.

      • Kevin,

        Zap, I’m sure you remember Forrest answers for Mysterious Writings Feb. 4th, 2018:

        “Rocking chair ideas can lead one to the first few clues, but a physical presence is needed to complete the solve. Google Earth cannot help with the last clue.”

        This seems to suggest more detail regarding what is possible from the vantage point of the armchair solver; in that, the first 8 clues are much more solvable from home than the last one…

        This may seem like a slight revision of the previous Forrest quotes regarding “in theory.” However most things are possible in one theory or another, so the fact that Forrest specifically states the last clue needs a physical presents (BOTG) is a significant detail…

        And from my experience, I agree!


        • Addendum to this.

          When asked further about GE and the actual Treasure Chest (aka Indulgence) Forrest has said, you can’t see exactly where the treasure chest is because Google Earth doesn’t go down that far…

          So this begins to paint a pretty clear perspective on Forrest thoughts regarding the 9 clues and what thinking and planning can accomplish and what BOTG searching is necessary.


      • IMO – anything can be fully solved in one’s own mind and such is called conjecture (the formation or expression of an opinion or theory without sufficient evidence or proof. As an aside, such could also be called imagination). Proving any such theory requires gathering the evidence necessary to make such more likely to be valid than not.

        FF saying that someone can solve all the clues in their own mind (theory/imagination) is a possibility, and then stating that such is not, however, likely in practice (or the physical act of performing your theorized possibility AKA going out to look for the treasure) is seemingly a good answer to the first part of the question asked.

        In situ, as used by the original questioner, seemingly means physically out there (as opposed to arm chairing it), so the second sentence of FF’s answer seemingly answers the rephrase in that the only real way of knowing that your theory is correct is to physically be on site where the treasure is.

        In short, I think FF did answer the posed and rephrased question in his response, and it should go without saying that the only way of proving anything chase related is to physically gain possession of Indulgence from the spot where FF hid it (or sign the logbook that the original finder left behind as said spot to let you know you’ve arrived). 🙂

        • Bowmarc: just for the record, my take is identical to yours. All clues can (and, in my opinion, should) be solved from home. A physical presence is only required to confirm your theory was right.

          • Zap;

            It is my opinion that one can solve all of the clues at home, including “A” blaze, but that BotG are necessary to find THE blaze – JMO – Others will not agree, and that is OK – JDA

  28. Kevin, remember Forrest said that everything we need to know is in the poem. Therefore, in the poem he tells us what the blaze is and how far the treasure chest is from the blaze, but it takes work to get that far. Once you solve or recognize a clue, you know you are correct because it’s so obvious. He also said that whoever finds the TC will probably laugh and wonder why it had taken so long for someone to find it. Many times he has said to keep it simple. When you realize where warm waters halt, you will also realize the game he is playing. Search for the hints he has given for that one.

  29. I don’t mind sharing that I have ordered lots of topographical maps from MyTopo.com and bought airplane tickets for the maps so I could have them the next day. They are located in Montana and, for a price, will ship overnight if you get your order in by a certain time. Great company. Great maps.

    • Hi vfhoyt: in the early days of the search, I spent over a thousand hours visually scanning, inch by inch, over 3000 7.5-minute topographical maps in the search zone, starting in Montana and finally stopping about 2/3 of the way down through Colorado. It’s a good way to acquire “a comprehensive knowledge of geography,” but it would be prohibitively expensive to do so with the physical maps themselves. Fortunately, there is an alternative:


      Best of luck in the Chase!

        • This site feels much less clunky to me than topoquest (I’ve used it for years for non-chase purposes):


          Instead of individual maps, it’s a google-maps-like interface that allows you to scroll as far and wide as you wish without changing maps.

          It’s easy to move around, zoom in and out, and toggle between map, satellite, and USGS views. It’s the USGS/satellite toggle that I’ve always found most useful when looking at where I’ve been and/or where I’m going.

          (When actually out and about I carry paper USGS topos, old ones when I can find them. It’s free and easy to print out the files now, but I really miss the look of the old paper USGS topos, and all the odd bits of lost landscape preserved on them).


          • Yes Jake…good site. Being a map guy from way back, the old paper ones have a lot of interesting things that have been omitted from the modern. Thanks for sharing…

          • Hi Jake — yep, I’ve used Topozone for over a decade, mostly for generating custom topos for backpacking purposes. Seems so often when I was trying to bag some 14’er in the Sierra, my route passed through the intersection of four 7.5-minute paper topos!)

          • Zap et al-

            Which topo is better depends on the detail on the particular area. I use Cal Topo most often.

            Topo has better water depictions. Cal has more items included on the map etc.


  30. A good map is not going to help you find where warm waters halt. I have posted this before, but for those who did not see it, I will post it again. “Where warm waters halt” is a riddle, “a mystifying, misleading, or puzzling question posed as a problem to be solved or guessed often as a game, conundrum, enigma, something difficult to understand.” (Merriam-Webster) In the beginning FF denied there were any riddles, but he has more recently admitted to “my riddle.” We know there are only four states to consider. FF said it has something to do with geography. If you Google “Geography of [each State],” you may notice in the first paragraph where warm water stops being warm water. Not everyone who reads the answer to the riddle will recognize it, but IMO, a brilliant riddle created by a brilliant man. This is only the first clue. FF is sly with his use of the language, and the clues do not get much easier, but I do believe WWWH is the hardest.

    • Ok vfhoyt, but you know what they say… “Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.” f

    • Each of the clues need to be solved in this way. Then, after solving, you use that solution to find the corresponding place on the map. This is what everybody does wrong, they do a one step instead of a two step. It’s why no one is any closer.


      • Three questions Lug;

        1) How do you know people do the one step, and not two step?
        2) How do you know that no one is any closer.
        3) If you know the secret, why haven’t you found it?

        Just askin’ JDA

        • JDA,

          I’d like to add a 4th question if you don’t mind. Why would f have a gut feeling I got no one was getting closer.


        • JD –

          1) Everyone posts about finding the blaze and finding where warm waters halt and find the home of Brown. Those are not things to find per this discussion. They are clues that nee to be solved.

          2) we are all the same distance away. NOT at the treasure. There is no closer. either you have it or you don’t.

          3) I have not solved all 9 clues and I don’t know (cannot know) that my geographical associations for those solved clues are correct.

          I am aware you do not listen to new ideas. You will continue to spend time in the area that you have believed the treasure is in for a couple of years now, (Wy not YS). You believe in one way to solve, judged by your extensive history of comments on this blog. So thereby you will continue to look in “the wood” rather than attempt to first solve the clue and then marry it to the map. Further when you see hints you think F is hinting at the location as opposed to the solve for the clue.

          Just for you, because i like you. Here is an example. To me the clue is “brave and in the wood”. It is actually phrased in the poem as a question, correct? If you are brave and in the wood, what are you? Just to pick one answer. I am a HORSE

          • Lug;

            You say: ” “brave and in the wood”… It is actually phrased in the poem as a question, correct? Well no. To me this a declarative statement, not a question. Fact, if you are brave and in the wood, I give you title to the wood.” Where do you see a question?

            To answer your supposed question – If you are (a) brave and in the wood(s) – what are you? – Then you are a Native American – (Not a horse) as one possible answer – So how does this apply to a map location?
            Maybe a National Forest with a name associated with Native Americans – A few come to mind.

            Yes, I have contemplated these possibilities – After solving the clue, I HAVE applied the answer to the map, and yes, I DO feel that I am closer – so I guess I am the exception to your rule. JDA

          • JD –

            If the solution has to do with either an Indian, where brave = Indian or Woods, where wood = Woods we would be reading a book about the feller that solved this poem and found the treasure years ago.

            You just can’t see out of your bubble. There is no water, canyon, paddle, home. No one is named Brown. There are no loads. Nothing is too far to walk.
            These things are clues.

            I sound a little harsh maybe so let me ask.

            Do you do crosswords?
            If the clue is” Play IT again, Sam”
            The answer is Piano

            So then I would look for a place on the map related to Piano and not Sam. That’s the two step.

            If you look at the map for a place that is in the wood(s), that’s one step. You have not solved the riddle or clue as presented. You jumped the gun.

            Anyways, that’s my opinion

          • Actually, Lug, the answer in your case would be “As Time Goes By”, not “Piano”. 😉

          • Lug, I agree “brave and in the wood” is a question but it’s not asking what are you, it’s asking who are you? So IMO this is where the Frenchman’s grave marker in Laos/Nam comes into play.

            JDA, I understand there’s no question mark in the sentence, and I sincerely wish I had a good example to offer to add perspective to my reasoning, but I just can’t think of one. Sorry. Perhaps someone here at the HoD can help me out.

            That being said, I uncovered what I believe to be the answer to that riddle 2 years ago or so and it remains a part of my solve even though my general search area has changed since first finding the answer. I mentioned the place to Forrest early last year though he never said anything back. No surprise there.

            And if I’m right, this place is related to cabinetry and woodworking, in an abstract kind of way. And though a different location, a hint provided in a certain SB is related but in an entirely different way and place.


          • Zap

            In the imagined crossword puzzle there is room for a five letter word.

            Just as with the other clues.

          • Pina

            The question certainly could be Who am I.

            When the time to s right I would love to hear the answer to that question.


          • Lugnutz: if the clue was “Play it again now, Orbison” then, piano would be an excellent answer. Otherwise, no.

          • Lugnutz

            Oh dear oh dear, how I would love to see the expression on your face when the treasure gets found within the next 6 weeks imo, we are not doing crosswords and if you’ve been treating the Chase like one then that where your going wrong, JDA your interpretation of ‘ In the wood’ is correct trust me on this please!

          • Butch;

            Thanks for the vote of confidence – Will it be found in the next 6 weeks? Let’s hope so – JDA

      • Is this the two step?
        But tarry (buttery) scant (the way the toast is cut six sided when the crusts are removed) with marvel gaze (glaze – the homemade jam) p38 = Dessert which then becomes Desert (the link to geography)? And hopefully one of the other lines reveals which desert? There are deserts in the map area. Just a thought, it’d be cool if it helped someone with the next line.

        • Argillite,

          “”If your solve is in the desert, get a new solve” f

          But, I do think the toast is significant. IMO

          • Thanks Flutterby, I don’t have any solve in the desert, just wondering if it might relate to one of the geographic stops along the way. Are the clues clumped together or could they be points on the map across a vast area. I keep on wondering if I bias my options on statements like this: “The clues should be followed in order Curtis. There is no other way to my knowlege.f” I always took it to mean a physical present was required at each of the 9 geographic clues, that they must be followed in order, and that if I knew the final location I couldn’t take a physical shortcut that excluded any of them. I wonder if I sometime misinterpret these ATF statements and limit the possibilities? I’ll keep thinking about that toast.

        • Argillite –

          I like it!

          Years ago I suggested Buttery Scones with Maple Glaze!


    • A map can get you close.
      A good map will put you on the treasure.

      Otherwise he would have just said ” a map”.

    • aardvarkbark,
      Since you mentioned Olga, could I ask a question. I’m not a tea drinker. So I don’t understand the significance of drinking green tea verses red tea. Can anyone explain this to me?

      • I cannot. According to TTOTC, Forrest drank red and black tea with her and nibbled on Oreos. He deposited her ashes from the air on ‘Taos Mountain’ as she requested. He then says he imagines that she is drinking green tea with her father in the afterlife.

        Taos Mountain is popularly known as Pueblo Peak. Some have thought that this location, the colors red, black and green (as either named peaks or creeks), and Oreo are hints.

        • Thanks aardvarkbark,
          I did not realize that Taos Mtn is known as Pueblo Peak. Potentially, it could be HOB. A pueblo is a home made of adobe or mud bricks. I actually think HOB is related to the sun, but just thought I’d toss out that thought in case anyone was interested.

          • Flutterby – Taos Mountain AKA Pueblo Peak and surrounding lands are sacred and strictly off-limits and inaccessible to the general public. I don’t think it is a consideration for HOB. Tea might be Tee.

      • I feel the colors of the Teas are hints. Nibbling on Oreos is not a hint but Nibbling has something to do with fishing.

        • Hi Kelly: you may want to give the Oreo another look. The face of the cookie has a Lorraine Cross at the top. Crosses and cross symbols are all over Forrest’s books, Scrapbooks, etc. And no, he’s not Catholic. 😉

          • You got that right Zap and I think I know what they represent.


          • Well, dang. Now I regret having been buying Hydrox these past couple of years. Totally missed the cross.

            Driving around northern NM, I’ve wondered if the Oreo reference was with regards to the well defined strata in the rock — dark, light, dark. I figure if I ever were to see a giant sized glass of white milk up next to such, especially if 200′ from the road, I might just pull over and go have a look-see.

          • I dunno, aard’bark – I wouldn’t be so quick to abandon the Hydrox.

            The first time I read Olga Tea (=Ovaltine?), I immediately flashed that OREO was a hint leading to HYDROX, the older of the two cookie designs.

            Which one has “Y X” on it, eh?

            And the six 7-petalled flowers on the hYdroX = 42. Coincidence? Yeah right, read on.

            Contrast the 12 four-petalled flowers* on an Oreo, clearly just a random design hacked out by William A Fournier to do nothing more than fill up the available space. And the cross was already Nabisco’s logo – nothing to see here.

            *(12 x 4 = 48 north? why that’s practically in Canada, which everyone knows is out of the search zone!)

            So OREO = hYdrOX leads you to the correct state; 6×7 = 42 north = wYO X. Put an X on your map in Wyoming.

            QED, eh? Now on to the Ovaltine hint . . . .


  31. Zap, Morecowbell, JDA, FMC, Seeker, Oz10, Oz2, ken, Lug, Tim, Jake, CharlieM, Pin,

    I believe I know why Forrest’s “gut feeling” is wavering and why his word for Fenn Treasure Hunter ;was “queer!”

    And why Dizzy Dean was calling down from the stadium announcing booth.

    That is because (in full disclosure), my family and I have made two trips to the search location this year already and have been thus far unsuccessful in locating the chest.

    I reported each trip to Forrest, proudly with pictures, since I feel strongly about fulfilling his vision of what the “chase” is all about. However my wife and I have not raised submissive nor unassertive children and they have made it quite clear that the final extraction/taking of the treasure chest is mine to do “alone.” And I would do well, to more fully appreciate the wonder of it’s location!!!

    That being said, I rebut to them that I have been “in there” 5 times to their 2 and the consummation of the chase requires some commitment & focus beyond our usual spontaneous hiking and exploration …

    So do I feel like a “Jack A$$,” well Yes! But being off by 600 feet one time and 180 feet another time isn’t to shabby considering the target is a cleverly hidden 10″x10″x5″ chest – and if it turns out I am “correct” then the momentary set back will have been worth IT. If NOT, I can only quote paraphrase the great Winston Churchill; better to be one of those that gave it their all and failed, rather than those timid souls who know not victory nor defeat…

    More boldly still though, I’ll double down and say, I believe several members of my family (myself included) have stood literally over the treasure with out realizing it… If that isn’t irony enough. I currently fully believe, I sent Forrest a picture of the “blaze” with out realizing how very very close we were.

    How “queer” indeed! And he thought a searcher couldn’t get with in 12′ and not find the treasure… Well I proved him wrong!

    All joking aside, Forrest meant; “knowingly” within 12′ thus his definition of a “correct solve” being; one which brings a searcher within several steps of the treasure chest /blaze…

    Ok – there is my confession, may the truth set me free.


    • It’s all good GCG. Nobody will just walk right to the chest even with a correct solve. It will take multiple botg searches to understand and figure it out.

      My experience has been eerily similar to yours. I also believe I have been within close proximity to the tc.

      If it makes you feel any better, my family told me the same thing. I’m on my own for the foreseeable future lol.

    • I give you guys some more time… let‘s say three weeks! Then I‘ll be back with the best weapon a treasure hunter can have… my 11y old boy!!! Whenever I was searching he texted me things like „it‘s right under your nose!!!“ or „Common dad, you‘re so close!“… so he probably knows something I don‘t… 🙂 Can‘t wait to unleash the beast!
      Btw… wanna meet up? 🙂

      • I’ll see you in August TLo unless you’re in hiding after finding the tc lol.

    • I give you guys some more time… let‘s say three weeks! Then I‘ll be back with the best weapon a treasure hunter can have… my 11y old boy!!! Whenever I was searching he texted me things like „it‘s right under your nose!!!“ or „Common dad, you‘re so close!“… so he probably knows something I don‘t… 🙂 Can‘t wait to unleash the beast!
      Btw… wanna meet up? 🙂 Best, TLo

    • Personally, I discount anyone’s solve after 2 BOTG. You go once and you encounter something unexpected, but you get the lay of the land and you go back and regroup for a 2nd. After that, it’s just optimism and/or an unwillingness to admit being wrong. Imo.

      • FMC: you better don’t underestimate the quality of the last hiding place… 😉
        My searching mates were going to a search area, took a short look around and said “Nope, it’s not here…” while I am the one who needs to turn around every single stone and log in the final area before I can say “It’s not here” and sleep well afterwards…
        So they are burning solves like the funniest part would be to find another starting point and I am still stuck at my one and only area I can go with confidence…
        And if you feel like FF is giving away secret hints with his remarks and you feel like you are addressed… you have to come back! Even if it was already the fifth time… that’s what I am going to do with my son (although we are primarily sightseeing), because he has a different vision… I hope… 😉

        GCG: Go for it! I hope you’re gonna find it! Good luck and stay safe!

      • FMC,

        I actually agree with your logic. My first 3 trips were to a large degree performed out of exuberance (they did however inform me greatly during the winter as I re-examined and simplified my solution), the 4th actually familiarized me with the specific location and allowed me enough time to fully explore the bounds of my solution location.

        Remember Forrest said, its straight-forward but tricky to interpret correctly and this is mostly true regarding the POSITIVE identification of the blaze (IMO – this is the knowing necessary for a correct solve)

        The 5th Trip ruled out a super cool possibility – that I still wish would have been correct – we have a family video of our thorough search in this hidden Shangri La and I look forward to sharing MY mistake. I think even Forrest might find it an uncanny coincidence but those happen…Unfortunately it reveals too much about the location to divulge at this point.

        So it will be Trip #6 and at that point FMC – I will have refined the solution as far as it can be refined and simplified. At that point if I am wrong then I will have to go back to the drawing board (I can’t see how really right now though).

        Lastly though, there is a piece of essential learning that I believe all searchers might find useful. At every misstep in the adventure of solving the poem’s mysteries, I can see with a cold eye, how I “left the poem.”

        What this reveals is how I looked to deeply in to somethings but not deeply enough into what was actually in the poem itself. I extrapolated too far outside the box so to speak.

        Forrest has commented that it required him to just put one foot down on top of the other. The trick is doing nothing more and nothing less than exactly this.

        Ok that is it, peace out.


        • GCG- dumb question from me Dodo….can you see your spot as Forrest’s final resting place?
          just yes or no.

          • Hi Dodo: you asked GCG, not me, but I just felt like responding. One of the things I like best about my current working solution is that with Forrest’s dying breath he could “throw himself on top of the chest” and probably not be found by people for quite some time. And if those who finally discovered his bones knew nothing of the treasure hunt, they wouldn’t find the treasure chest.

          • Zap- thanks for your reply. if GCG answer was yes too then I would say both of your solutions are a win-win. Forrest said following the poem precisely would lead to the treasure and the end of his rainbow. both you and GCG found them.

            I think.

          • Zap…that is awesome and while not exactly reverse engineering it is critical to have that very type of spot in mind as a final confirmation or litmus test.

          • Dodo (not a dumb question at all – especially since recently Toby read his fictionalized account of what he imagines Forrest Treasure hiding day looked like and in his story he imagines a specific kind of place. Further likes to refer to the location as requiring it to be “Fenny Enough)

            So Yes … BUT:

            it doesn’t conform to MY original idea of what the blogs & reporters have sort of lead myself and others to think…

            One of the reason’s I believed my last search location was going to be the ONE, was because it DID fit that mental model, in an incredibly cool way.

            However, after reviewing very carefully only what Fenn has said about his special place, I will suggest it is simpler and more straightforward a place.

            Forrest Fenn is romantic but a no frills kind of guy (IMO), especially in death. I will assert again that many people who are serious searchers will cry afoul or perhaps be a little disappointed that the exact final spot isn’t cool enough.

            Just my thoughts on this issue.


          • Hi Sandy — yeah, any candidate solution I come up with has to pass through a gauntlet of such tests — e.g. has to be a place that lots of people get within 500 feet of, but not 200 feet; has to be reachable by a 79-year-old man (carrying 25-lb. loads half the time) in a reasonable amount of time without difficulty of danger, has to be close enough to pine trees and sage brush to smell them and have line-of-sight to mountains, trees and animals. The full solution has to have a solid explanation for how people could solve 2 clues but get hung up after that, and I think it would be preferable if none of the clues were associated with manmade structures. I also think it would be a plus if a metal detector would be of no practical use at all, in light of his line “Technology is not going to help you find that treasure.” There are probably at least another couple dozen hoops that good solutions must jump through.

            As you point out, it’s not a practical approach to solving the poem, any more than is trying to figure out home of Brown or the blaze prior to solving WWWH. It’s more of an end-of-the-journey checklist.

          • Zap
            I like your thinking with your “gauntlet of tests”.
            IMO, very spot on and some great examples.
            I also think, when the clues from poem have been solved, we will understand more of Mr. Fenn’s public statements and comments.
            My so-called correct 9 clues and some of his comments will also hopefully help confirm the clues.
            His comments should not be used to read the poem.
            Use the poem to figure out the clues.

            Clearly Clueless

          • Zaphod, if lots of people have been within 500 feet of the
            TC in the last 7 years, those lots were pretty small ones.
            All IMO.

          • Tighter: a million people have been within 500 feet of the treasure chest. IMHO.

          • Hi Lug: 500 feet is not “close proximaty” in my book, but I recognize that others will have their own ideas about the minimum distance to the nearest human trail.

          • Zap –

            Ok I will buy that. Now I am intrigued.

            You know how I feel about the matter. The whole thing takes place on a short walk from his sedan. 500 feet is definitely far enough off trail that the likelihood of stumble upon is scant.


        • GCG…are you still looking NM CO border? Many a Shangri La to be found there…good luck in all you seek.

          • Sandy, that was my first dart that I threw at the map – like most searchers I suspect but fortunately I realized the folly in that and then started with a blank sheet of paper and the poem, only.

            There is no secret information it’s in the poem for all to see…

            No, I’m not in NM @ the border.


          • LOL

            Your answer, makes my mind think…
            a) you are at the border on the Colorado side
            b) you are in New Mexico, but not at the border

            Clearly Clueless

        • GCG –

          Forrest does not red long emails. because most of this is all nonsense and also because he gets loads of emails daily.

          If the email you sent Forrest is longer then our comment above he didn’t read it. That’s my opinion. Mentioning to us that you sent him an email means nothing unless he responds and you want to share it.

          You do not know that he read it and you should consider it not read.


          • Lug,

            That’s exactly why when I write to f (not very often) I put something in the subject line to get his attention first. And then in the first paragraph or two, a few more items are added that I think are important to the search to encourage him to continue reading.

            And when appropriate I also include photos or screenshots with a short caption. One picture worth a 1,000 words kind of mentality.

            I don’t know what your background is, but being associated with (not in) the military my entire career, you quickly learn they usually want the important stuff first and then they will dive into the details if they have questions. BLUF was one of the acronyms used in my last job before retirement; bottom line up front.

            So my suggestion to everyone is this. If your communication is long, do yourself an favor and put the important info up front. You’ll have a much better chance of him reading the entire thing if you. And you’ll save him a lot of time if your premise is way off base because he will likely and quickly send it to the round file.


          • Lug,
            He responded .

            But just to remind me to stay safe – he reads my emails.

            I abide by the rules. Mostly…

          • Pina

            What a coincidence. I too work with the military.

            People think that Fenn reads thier emails. They think that because they see a connection to something F says subsequently. I am saying that anyone who doesn’t get a response should figure it meant unread.

            Now, if F does respond consider that he may be having fun with you. And probably not hinting.


          • Lug;

            We all have our own way of looking at the world, but (IMO) you walk around with a perpetual dark cloud over your head. It is hard to remember a post of yours that was not negative in one aspect or another… and for that, I am sorry. I wish that someone could shine a bit of light into your heart, for it sure seems to me, that it is very dark in there – Not in a sinister way, but dark as opposed to light and airy – JMO and perception – JDA

          • Lugnutz,

            Your wrong about Forrest not reading long emails. I know he has stated this but I believe it’s long ones full of nonsense. Reason I say this is because I have sent him a few emails and all were lengthy with shorts comments back from Forrest, but one was really long and he must have like the content that I discussed because he gave me a very nice compliment and talked about my efforts I put in to material I talked about.

            So folks if you send long emails don’t ask questions to him and send him something that will captivate his interest in the first paragraph, not things he has seen over and over throughout this chase.

            Thanks Lug for your opinion,
            All is “Just food for thought”,

          • CGC –

            And then do you also think he makes comments publicly that reflect support of your solve? Isn’t that what you were saying?

            It’s not just you. many claim this.


          • Lugz, maybe I read it the wrong way but I think GCG was just having fun with it. He has said before that he is aware of the biases and wrong associations searchers find in all of ff comments.

          • JD –

            I disagree.

            I am positive and open. Open means I listen to other ideas and come up with solves.

            You do not.


          • And we can agree to disagree. I do listen, and I do have my solve, that is ever getting closer.

            Good luck to you Lug.

            No offense meant. It was just an observation. I DO hope that there is a lot more light in your life than I perceive.

            Again, no offense meant, and Good Luck. – JDA

          • Bur –

            Hi. I am not saying he doesn’t read that emails. I am saying two things.

            1. If he doesn’t respond you should not consider the email as read.

            2. If Fenn says or writes something that seems to be about your solve, it probably isn’t.

            If he reads emails and then makes a comment in support of the emailed location or theory than he is lying when he says he doesn’t support one searcher over another. Also, why the heck would he do it?

            he wouldn’t.

          • Last year I searched a specific area that I now know was completely wrong. Every day before going out I would email Forrest to let him know where I was (I was alone) and he responded to me to be safe and take plenty of water. Do i think his response was significant? Of course not… I told him where I’d be just in case and he was just concerned for my welfare….

            Just my .02


        • GCG,

          Very interesting notes about ‘leaving the poem’. From this puzzle and another one, I see that while solving the clues there might be ‘references’ within the puzzle (before or after) that somewhat confirms the method. Some are more clear than others.

          • In my mind that is the way it should work at least. I try not to go down too many ‘degrees of separation’ between the clue and the solve if I find no reference there.

          • Oz10,
            Are you saying that you believe that some phrases in the poem confirm other phrases? I think that is true. I believe that if you have been wise and found the blaze, that means you have located HOB. Just my opinion.

          • FB, yes I think that by the time you ‘figure out’ the blaze, you should be able to know what the home of Brown was. More importantly, without knowing hoB we will never find out what the blaze is.

        • GCG said: “..serious searchers will cry afoul or perhaps be a little disappointed that the exact final spot isn’t cool enough.”

          I agree. I think people are imagining a much more breathtaking and exciting place than the hidey spot actually is. Like when Fenn finally got to visit the small clearing with the waterfall he said it was “impersonal and disappointing”.
          Remember it’s in a spot that a casual hiker would walk right past without noticing. While I’m sure Fenn’s special place is nice I think it’s simpler and humbler than most searchers expect it to be.

          • Rawdawg,

            I will agree with your assessment of the area that Fenn hid the chest. But to add the whole area, fairly close to this spot, is what has meaning and is special to him. Just ask his friend, oh that’s right their not with us anymore. (Two can keep a secret)

            Thanks for the post,

          • One thing that really fell short on my last search was my Google earth images did not even look the same in person. Maybe the shadows have to be just right.

          • Randawg,

            I’d like to add that IMO the special place, though very scenic, is not the reason it’s “special” to him. It’s deeper and more significant than just THE one of a thousand gorgeous places in the RMs.


        • Oz10,

          Forrest says you have to start at the right spot and then follow the clues from there. Putting one foot down on the other, is kind of how he said it.

          I do not believe this phrasing is accidental or simply idiosyncratic – I would consider this a hint…

          So, YES each clue helps reveal the next clue more clearly than trying to get it with out knowing the clue previous to it. But I believe the things in the poem beyond the official nine clues provide hints specifically designed to aid you in the proper interpretations.


          • GCG,

            When ff said ‘the clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did’, did you understand that as an absolute that all clues refer to 9 places?

            I keep working out a solution where more than one clue is needed to name a place, on the other hand, there is at least one clue that can be taken as reference to 2 diff places. I’m pretty sure there is no quote from ff pointing one way or another but what is your estimation?

    • The TC is not within 500 feet of the blaze, but finding the blaze is important in order to find the TC. All IMO.

  32. Sorry for the double post but somehow the first version got lost in the water high on its way from Berlin to the other side of the pond…

  33. We all know about TTOTC – Teachers with Ropes and “Please Touch”… We also know about connections in the book to centuries, and connections to Philly, PA.

    Regarding finding poem hints in TTOTC, I found a few things in my old notes after seeing RF Hecky’s video for inspiration.

    I found a previous connection to the Childrens “Please Touch” museum in Philly back when I was researching My War For Me and found the Centenial connections that RF Hecky did a video about. I hope this information helps her or someone else, I don’t think she found the link to the carosel in Catcher – at the “Please Touch” museum… she will now.


  34. I wrote out a longer piece and sent it to Dal, but he doesn’t feel it merited it’s own thread so I’ll just condense the two main things a bit and put it here (to be read and inevitably forgotten, except perhaps by some intrepid Googler of the future who finds it and basks in my shared wisdom)…

    1) For as much as most searchers have read the books, read the scrapbooks, watched FF at book signings, listened to interviews, etc. I think a lot of searchers don’t question whether or not their ideas about individual clues or the poem as a whole make sense in the context of all of what we know about FF. Forget about the logic behind your ideas, whether it’s possible, and how “no one knows how to solve it until it’s solved” and ask yourself if all aspects of your solve feel like something FF would have in his Chase.

    2) The second point was an example of this with “Look quickly down” focusing on the word “quickly” and tying it to seconds of degrees (~80 to 100 feet depending on if you’re using latitude/longitude… see: https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/how-much-distance-does-a-degree-minute-and-second-cover-your-maps). Now, this could be 80-100 feet south, 80-100 feet below the cliff face you’re standing on, 80-100 feet downriver, or even some other interpretation. And it could certainly be completely wrong. The point, however, was to ask yourself the following: Does it at least feel like it could be right given what we know about FF?

    Then I had a nice closing paragraph that tied it all together with a call to action – essentially: conduct a feel-test (and I played off field test with feel-test in my title… #clever #wasted) on your solve so you can move with confidence.

    • FMC

      All valid thinking. I went BOTG two weeks ago, and I found a really amazing blaze. I looked quickly down and there was nothing directly below that blaze. It is a big rock which was split in half, and the middle or it faces downhill, with a near perfect triangle showing. It was perfect, but we investigated all around it, below it, and tried to interpret what “look quickly down” really means.

      I considered 80-100 feet, and beyond that until all possibilities were searched. My final conclusion is that I just did not find “His Blaze”. My area is very compelling, but I am not going to keep trying to reinvent the clues within it. It’s just not the right area, and I have to live with it.

      We have to figure out the riddle within the poem, as well as the clues. It’s a very challenging and difficult poem to decipher. Keep trying until it’s found!

      Good points FMC


    • * * * * FMC wrote – ““Look quickly down” focusing on the word “quickly” and tying it to seconds of degrees (~80 to 100 feet depending on if you’re using latitude/longitude” * * * *

      HeyO, FMC –

      You may have covered this in the full version, or it may not matter at all to the point you were making, but . . .

      A second of latitude will be about 101 feet (as you note) anywhere.

      But a second of longitude will vary greatly by how far north of the equator it is, from 82 feet at Santa Fe, to 66 feet at the Montana/Canada border. (And no feet at all at the North or South Pole).


  35. Sandy,
    I’m sure that Pueblo Peak is not HOB. I was simply pointing out that something like that could be. Pueblo= home made of mud, Peak = look quickly.

    As I mentioned earlier, my belief is that HOB is related to the sun. A place on the map that represents the sun.

  36. Pinotubocharlie,
    I agree, “brave and in the woods” is asking who you are.

    • The phrase “brave and in the woods” is not part of the poem. Please try to
      relax. Trying too hard to keep a gusher of hints flowing could lead to sloppy
      communication/thinking, which is not very helpful in solving the poem correctly.
      All IMO.

      • Please excuse my typo. Typing on my phone while hiking again today.
        The correct phrase is “brave and in the wood” (not woods) I was just agreeing with Pinatubocharlie that “brave and in the wood” is a question.

  37. Lug,

    Earlier you said “People think that Fenn reads thier emails. They think that because they see a connection to something F says subsequently. I am saying that anyone who doesn’t get a response should figure it meant unread.”

    IMO he opens every email he receives and reads the first few sentences. He may even peruse it quickly. But he certainly might not read the entire thing. That’s why those of us writing him need to create interest or keep him interested in what we have to say.

    And if I am one of the fortunate ones who actually gets a response (twice now) and because I consider him to be a man of incredible integrity, I would never consider a response to contain a hint, because if it did, then that level playing field he’s trying to keep would no longer be level.

    If memory serves he’s responded twice to me. Once with a “thank you” when I wished him a happy birthday and “good luck to you sir” when I sent him my answer to SB 124, Lost My Spot, hoping to get the bonus hint that no one else knows; “…..if anybody can tell me where I caught that beautiful rainbow trout, I’ll tell them a secret that I haven’t revealed to anyone – ever.” f

    Forrest, if you are reading this, is that contest still open for searchers to submit answers, and if so, will you permit me to change my mine?


  38. Odd Ends…

    What is the best theory on how Forrest would have thrown himself on top of the chest without giving away this location, and not found in a hundred years?

    There will definitely be an investigation on his disappearance. He is a wealthy and well-known personality in Santa Fe, NM. He can’t just drive his own or a rental car there because it will be found. Taxi or Uber companies will be questioned, so even if he pays cash someone will be able to identify him. Taking that into consideration, then any mode of transportation these days will increase the chance that someone will recognize a face or come up on cameras. Planes, trains, buses, etc…

    There are two things that have been mentioned. Museums and bicycles. He could drive and park at a Museum, then pull his bicycle from the trunk and ride the rest of the way. The bicycle can be easily hidden by a number of ways but one idea he gave us is by submerging it in the ‘Water High’. Fine, that is a good idea but a question comes to mind: How far an 80-year-old can ride a bike with 40plus pounds of gold and jewels in a backpack in a day or two, up and down hills and without raising suspicions of any kind?

    I mean, regardless if the car was left at a museum or at a walmart, once found that will give them a starting point to the radius from where to search. It will not be a 4 state search, one or two at the most for sure. What will be a better way to disappear without leaving a trail of physical clues?

    • Good analysis Oz10;

      For my search area, Forrest could park in a nearby town. Bicycle about 15 miles – either in one day or two. Peddle to the Water High point, ditch the bike and walk a short distance to where he had once hidden Indulgence.

      Take his bottle of pills, lie down next to Indulgence and go to sleep – forever.

      Where Indulgence is secreted is, in many ways a true “Hidey hole”

      I have been searching this general area for about 30 months. There is a LOT of territory to investigate – and that is just from my parking area – now
      if you add in the area from the nearby town to my parking place – you add miles and miles of area to search.

      Smaller than a needle in a haystack – IMO – JDA

      • While FF tries to peddle something out in the middle of nowhere, he’s not
        likely to find many customers.

        Some haystacks are easy to find. Some needles are pretty big.

        The above is all part of my opinion, as y’all may already know.

    • OZ- and until the body is found he is considered a missing person so no life insurance claims can be paid.

      go figure.

    • Oz10…The logistics are definitely important and I believe can be of assistance in figuring things out. Just an aside….Why couldn’t he have hidden the treasure before stashing the car ?

      • ken, sure he could do that. Still, the question remains, leaving his or a rental car somewhere within bicycle distance from the spot will reduce the search area considerably, doesn’t it? AND if that is the case should we be taking those comments about ‘museums’ a bit more serious?

        • Oz10…there are quite a few scenarios that I can think of, and have thought about in this regard. There are drawbacks to consider in most of them…one of them being how close his car theoretically could be. The vehicle issue is the one I have spent the most time with, and I have come up with a theory or two that would work. That said…there are quite a few *missing person* cases involving found vehicles and said persons have yet to be found. My particular search area is ideal for this scenario and not a real big deal to do a disappearing act…given the right set of circumstances. The *museum* angle is entertaining…but I personally believe it is a non hint for a bunch of reasons.

    • No wild ideas of Forrest stealing a car or throwing a whole car in a lake, and just because he said “two can keep a secret if one is dead” doesn’t mean he would to ‘get rid’ of someone to get this accomplished. Only sensible and realistic ideas.

      • OZ10 –

        It’s not a secret if only one person knows. Nothing has been entrusted to keep secret. It’s only once it’s shared that it can then be a secret.


        • Does a tree falling in the wood make a sound – If there is no one to hear it? HUMMM? JDA

    • Oz ~ ‘There will definitely be an investigation on his disappearance.’
      Everyone under the sun knows the story, the original intent, only, that was ruined.. and.. may not likely happen as planned almost 30 years ago.
      Ya’ll assume that in the late 80’s early 90’s fenn had a ‘chest’ and ‘22.2 troy lbs of gold and jewels’ to take with him [ totaling 42lbs]… Only I recall fenn talking about collecting some of those items years later [ going to shows and buy gold pacers for example]… so, would the weight had been 42 lbs? Would the trove be the same as it is today? [should he had not recovered and went, let say 1990?] We knew he wanted someone else to write his bio… did he even plan on a bio to take with him in the early years-?- when the plan was do “take it with him”?

      I’m sure fenn took into consideration, just that… there would be no need for life insurance [ if he has any, I mean he had/has more than a single million to his name, right? ]. The only reason for any investigation would be, if foul play was suspected. A simple will –[video explanation would cover this].

      How he would have accomplished this is of no real factor… What we do know is, what we have been told; “done in one afternoon,” “walked less than a few miles,” “two trips” etc. The only real question is… was the two trips, two full round trips… or one trip for the chest and back to the vehicle and trip two with the contents?

      “…At my secret hiding place, as I was closing the chest for the last time, I felt part of me slip inside and become part of the treasure, or at least I thought I did. I’m okay with that now.f” { sounds to me that was the end of it all }
      “…The spot is the same, but in less than two months I’ll be 84 and that means many of the things to which I once aspired are no longer available to me. I still anticipate, but I may be unable to grasp such a transient pleasure before my trail shows signs of growing too weary for the journey. To make that success would be the boldest move I ever made and to that end I just want it all the more.f”

      I doubt fenn is going to finalize his original plan… 30 years ago, maybe… even 5 years ago, possibly. Now? too many know of the tale… anyone and everyone owning a tracking dog would hit the fields. IMO fenn most likely never go back…

      • At first I thought I was going to die and I wanted my bones to be
        with the treasure chest, and my poem said that. When I recovered
        I had to change the poem. The poem reads easy, but I spent a lot
        of time selecting just the right words…I decided that if I had to go I
        would leave some of my things for those behind me to find. I
        worked on the whole thing for about fifteen years,” Fenn
        said….When I started putting precious things in the chest I felt like
        I was on a roll. Since the chest could hold only 600 cubic inches of
        treasure I was careful to put only the best and smallest things I
        could find. The chest weighs 42 pounds (19kg) as it rests where I
        hid it…I am the only one who knows where the treasure is and I
        will take that knowledge to my grave…I have done my part and I
        first thought that if I was sorry I hid it I could always go back and
        get it. I was never sorry. At this point I am nothing more than an
        interested bystander… -Consolidated quotes from TarryScant.com

        • Seeker, we know he had to change the poem when he got better (leave my bones and take the chest) or something like that he said. That tells me that the whole point of the chase and the (100-1000) years down the road was already in the works. Also, that tells me how much of the poem was already written way back before he got better.

          We also know that when the book Too Far to Walk came out pretty much sliced the search area down 50% and, supposedly, he did not intend to do that. He blamed benchmark maps. So, that final step, of him going with the chest needed lots of preparation if everything was to work out imo. You are right about the ‘investigation’ not necessarily be 100% needed if there was no foul play suspected, but for someone with his profile, I think the probability is very high.

          • Oz10…In OUAW Doug Preston describes entering Fenn’s vault in the early 1990’s and seeing the original contents…and that it weighed more than forty pounds at that time. The poem Fenn showed him was *complete* and ready for Fenn to use if the cancer returned. Doug then recounts subsequent visits to the vault and some of the contents of the chest had been replaced with different items and that Fenn had figured out a better plan to *know* when the treasure was discovered besides the IOU. The poem was tweaked and made harder(more difficult). August 2010 another visit revealed the chest had been hidden. Fenn allowed these entries in his book…so I think it is fairly safe to believe this is an accurate account of how it went down.
            Main points; poem already written…but tweaked.
            chest already filled…but some items swapped out.
            hidden sometime previous to 8/2010.
            The IOU being removed because of a better plan is of great interest to me and may relate to that *one item* he has alluded to.

          • Ken,

            I think that IOU was originally put in to maybe help the searcher who found indulgence to help with getting it home to a secure location. Not all searchers driver to the Rockies, some fly or use other ways of transportation and monies can be tight. So to me that IOU was a means to buy possibly a vehicle or acquire a safe transport of the chest to the searchers place of residence. So to me the item that’s he doesn’t want to talk about could be a way to help with what I just stated. Of course that’s just what I would like to have if I should be the lucky one since I fly out there.


      • Side note: this issue of ff doing two trips from his car to hide the chest. Why is this clear to me and I see no subterfuge with this comment at all? What am I missing? He has said because of the (weight) of the whole thing and his (age) he had to do 2 round trips from his car to the hiddey spot in one afternoon. One for the chest and a second for the contents. What else he said to complicate that statement, or what is so confusing about that?

        He did say to remember that he had to do two trips, that to me didn’t mean that we all have to do 2 trips. That could simply mean, if a searcher because of age or other physical limitation finds the chest, he/she may want to consider doing it in two trips as well just like he did AND if that is the case they also should consider the time that it will take for retrieval.

        • OZ10;

          Could not agree more – It Ain’t complicated folks! Just like you said. Sure makes sense to me!!! JDA

        • “If you can’t make two trips from your car to your solve in several hours, then don’t go.”

          In the fundamental guide lines, this seems odd as a suggestion of not going. A simple task of walking one way to locate the hide is one thing… yet fenn wanted it to be clear of two trips for some reason. There are many guys and some gals that can carry 42lbs in a backpack… so why this suggestion as a guideline for searching.

          I mean, if someone was to locate he hide, how hard would it be to leave it until you could find help to go back, or go back as many times ad one would like to? Seems to me it would be safe enough… right?

          But… my thoughts in my post was about the “completion” of hiding the trove. That would only require two trips to the hide with one trip back to the car [ for fenn ]. The return trip may not be involved with the amount of time or distances… it’s just something to think about if attempting to calculate any possible scenario involving a solution.

          • That is one of those cases where one can overthink the comments. I think I understand your logic but I believe that ff simply wanted to raise awareness as of the walking distance involved. Also, taking in consideration the extra fatigue because of the weight. Here ‘several hours’ is the same as one afternoon.

            Lets agree that one afternoon will be from Noon till 6pm and we can say that 6 equals ‘several hours’. I’m pretty sure many will find this a stretch but just for the sake of argument. Now, if your solve requires to walk 1.5 hours from your car to the spot, then you are okay and that should be your maximum, because walking that distance round trip twice equals 6 hours.

            If your walking distance is 2 hours from the car, then a double round trip will be 8 hours, which it is more than one afternoon. So the walking distance should not be more than 1.5 hours from the car max. ff never gave us a minimum but since he needed 2 round trips with 20 pounds from the car to the hidey spot, I estimate at least a 30 minute walk minimum.

            No, I don’t think the chest is 500 feet from the car because anybody can walk that distance round trip twice within an hour so it will negate BOTH the ‘several hours’ AND the ‘few miles’ comments.

          • Oz10;

            Just because Forrest said two trips in an afternoon – and I will accept (for sake of argument) your 6 hours – why use the maximum? He could have walked (day) 500′,
            hid the treasure chest, had a sandwich, went back to the sedan, got the goodies, returned to the hidey spot – put the goodies in the chest – secreted Indulgence – Had a Grapette soda, admired the view, walked back to the sedan – all within say 3 hours – walking slow – all within one afternoon. Why should we believe that it took 6 hours when “in” an afternoon could be anything from one hour to 8 hours? Be flexible, not so rigid.

            Do I think it is only 500′ away from the sedan? Nope, but I am at least willing to consider the possibility. JDA

          • JDA, to keep people safe from getting lost or hurt. That was his only aim with that comment. Think before walking long distances and use the 2 round trip to the car in one afternoon -measure- to stay safe. Forrest gave us the meaning of SEVERAL (more than two but fewer than many) and we should know what an afternoon is. It is all about the maximum and common sense.

            If a searcher don’t want to walk more than 100 feet from the car, that is fine, makes no difference to me. At least they are safe.

          • Oz10: I’m onboard with your main takeaway: that the intent of Forrest’s comments was primarily safety. Keep people from trekking ridiculous distances. But like JDA, I think you are overly restrictive with your interpretation of minimum distance.

            “Forrest gave us the meaning of SEVERAL (more than two but fewer than many)”

            Not quite: “More than two, but not much more.”

            But he didn’t say it took HIM several hours to make the two roundtrips. It’s likely that it took at least a couple hours, but nothing that he has said requires it. If the two roundtrips took him a total of less than an hour, that would not be in conflict with any of his statements.

          • Oz,
            I agree with the stance of 6 hrs “max.”
            We know fenn stated “done in one afternoon… well for most… afternoon starts at 12 noon and continues to about 6 pm. { unless your Sheldon and use 4pm to 6pm as prevening }.
            IMO, and it seems to be yours as well, no more than a 6 hr task for the two trips.

            Lets break that down for a sec. That’s 3 hours from start [ parking area ] to hide and back to start [once]. Realistically that brings the one way trip from the car [ start ] to the hide at 1.5 hours at its max time. So we kinda agree there as well.

            What I’m saying is… did fenn truly used that last trip back to his car as a full time for a trip through the clues to the solve [hidey spot]?
            A solve is a solve… unless there is a reason [ other than weight ] for two trips, it should only take a max amount to time for a full solution of 1.5 hours… if of course… all is known of prior to going.

            So here’s the WhatIf thought; are the starting of the clues near this place fenn parked-?- or did he walk [ for example ] 1 hour to the “location” to begin what is needed to be done at the location?
            This would have the clues in a smaller area which seems to line up with many of the ATF’s we know of…

            The question that pops in my mind is; once at the first clue [ regardless of how long it takes to get to it or measurement to it ] how long would it take to walk through the clues?

            fenn stated he followed the clues “when he hid the treasure”… before the poem was complete ( completed? ) This seems to imply he had to to exactly as we are told to do [ a deciphered poem ] to complete the solve / task of discovering the hide.

            I think it’s very important to think about fenn having to “complete” the poem by his actions in the field. As he has stated; he didn’t use a map when writing the poem, he worked from memory. So why would he follow the clues if he knew already?

            One possible answer is… “no one will stumble upon it” ~ not even a searcher in search mode ~ unless the followed “precisely” the correct deciphering of the clues. That yells to me that there is work in the field to be done.

            Searchers had two clues, yet they didn’t seem to know it, why? More than likely they didn’t know what was needed to be done…. every one left the poem.
            So why would it be important to think about the time span as we have been told? One possible conclusion is… where does it all start at-?- how far do we need to go [ hiking ] to get to the first clue and all the others?

            If I was an early searcher [prior to 2013] I’d revisit my first clue as to how far I traveled to get to it, from any possible parking/stopping location of a vehicle.

          • Hi Zap, I copy pasted the meaning to ‘several’ from the Merriam-Webster site. Fenn’s definition (on the moby dickens video) is pretty much the same as that one.

            I am not being rigid about the distance one way or the other. I wrote about the maximum at length because that is what his quote was pointed at to use as a measure. Based on the available comments and common sense, I personally believe the walk from the car to the spot will be between 30 to 90 minutes, give or take, also depends on the terrain.

            Like I said, some may decide to only walk short distances and others will stretch that ‘afternoon’ measure as much as they can if their solve requires it. At the end, the complete solve will dictate the exact distance, no matter if it is 200 feet or 3 hours from the car.

          • Seeker,

            I see your point. We don’t know if ff was at the location prior to that day when he walked the 2 round trips to hide the chest to ‘prepare’ the final exact spot.

            So we have to guess that whatever he needed to do to ‘prepare’ the area and hide/bury the treasure chest was done on the second trip from his car to the spot. When I say (prepare) I mean to make sure that those final clues match the trail sort of speak, and of course some time was spent on that last moment when the contents were carefully placed inside the bronze and finally camouflaging the chest from view.

            To the question of why those searchers left the poem, or what they failed to do or understand about that area I have no straight answer just theories. When ff said he followed the clues when he hid the chest it could be understood in multiple ways. If he meant -walked- all or the majority of the clues to the spot then we need to find out if that is the same as actually standing on top of each clue or if they are around at a distance (like trail markers) or writings on the cliffs, on the way to the spot.

            The strange thing about that location where searchers have been since early on but didn’t know is that they did not see the connection to the poem. Think about that for a second. Searchers, we all do, memorized the poem from top to bottom and think deeply about it and even dream about it too. -Alone, riches, warm waters, canyon, not far, too far, home of Brown, meek, end nigh, paddle, creek, heavy loads, water high, blaze, etc… and none of that clicked on the spot.-

            That comment about ‘leaving the poem’ slapped me hard, cause how could they? that is the one thing they won’t do, leave the poem. If anything the poem wasn’t there, at that spot. Whuut?

          • Hi Seeker/Oz10: I don’t think anyone has mentioned this interpretation of the MW Periodic Words statement, so I’d like to share it:

            MW Periodic Words (6/5/2017): “To answer some questions and save others from being asked, I did follow the clues in the poem when I hid the treasure chest, although I hid it before the poem was complete. (Completed?) f”

            What if Forrest is being a bit more literal? That on the actual afternoon he hid the treasure, he followed the clues exactly as they are laid out in the poem and when he reached the end of those clues he hid the treasure chest? If (for instance) the last CLUE is somewhere prior to the 6th stanza, then — quite literally — he hid the treasure before the end of the poem, i.e. “before the poem was complete.” The whole ATF may be an admission that the clues end before the end of the poem.

          • Zap…I have offered that interpretation on several occasions. In fact…for this very scenario being offered. To me, it is the most logical interpretation that satisfies all of the ATF to date….but, but.

          • Hey Seek/Zap,

            Zaphod you wrote: What if Forrest is being a bit more literal?

            That seems logical to me and it could be more literal than that as well. Lets say that the clues are nested between stanzas 2 and 4, but without the -hints-key-knowledge- found in stanza 5 and perhaps 6, the clues are undecipherable.

            He knows what the clues translate to, so in theory he followed them until he hid the chest somewhere in stanza 4. But that is not a ‘complete poem’ or a ‘complete solve’ for the searcher. We need more than the hints on the first stanza and more than the undecipherable 9 clues in the preceding stanzas 2,3,4.

            Is that the reason why he used (Complete, Completed?) in his statement? Just a thought….

    • Oz10,

      You said- “There are two things that have been mentioned. Museums and bicycles. He could drive and park at a Museum,”

      How about say he did drive his car to the Musuem in Denver. Easy 6hr.drive up I-25 with no stops unless for a break. Now after parking his car there does that tell where he is headed, well no but his options are many for a alternate transportation at that point – planes, trains, buses, limousines, and maybe a friend with a car at his disposal. Yes taking another form of transportation might help reveal the next point to where he is going but that only tells the main destination place let’s say a town. Now what if in that town there is a bicycle shop, he could by a new-used bike for cash no questions asked and ride that bike to his special spot area and throw it in the water high and continue on foot to his spot.

      Now the point I am trying to make yes he can be tracked to maybe the town and yes maybe the guy who sold him the bike can recognize a photo of him but “what if” this place has many bike trails or routes that a bike can go on man made or dirt out of that town. So how can they know where to look in a large area in many directions. They would have to solve the poem correctly to get to that spot and by the time they might figure that out which could be never especially if he is secluded where he lays. So logistics can help some but you still need the poem solves to find that spot. You also have to think about how many chase searchers would converge to that last know area if it is broadcasted then the chances of the chest being gone before his remains are found might be something to happen first if one of them could figure out the poem.

      Ok I kind of got out on a limb here but possibilities are many for Forrest to get there. Tracking him to the sweet spot maybe even harder, I believe.

      Again we all have thoughts on this but in reality this don’t matter because I think now he will never go into his after life there anymore.. If the bicycle idea helps in your solve then by a means consider it, I did and it fits in quite nicely.

      Good luck,

      • I too have considered a bicycle in my solve, and yes, it does fit in nicely.

        I think that Forrest did use a bike, to help carry the “Heavy load” of Indulgence and/or the loot. I even have a guess where he would have hidden the bike, so it would likely go undetected while he hid Indulgence.

        What fun, trying to figure it all out, and not have one of those -” Darn – that didn’t work” moments. – 🙂 JDA

        • JDA,

          You know I don’t like to boost about my solve but I feel the same way on all the clues like you said (except for physically seeing the blaze) but other things like easy two trips to the spot in a afternoon, bicycle can be use if needed to the point of NPUYC but it can be walked up to the water high, his car can be parked appr. 2miles away. Things like that just make me feel confident. Now it’s just a matter of getting back out there in the Rockies, if not in what time is left before seasons snows then spring it will have to be.

          Glad your sticking to it, I know there is disappointment of not finding the chest after a few times searching can stop the normal searcher as I once felt but sometimes you just have to put your way of thinking back in the box to figure things out.

          Good luck,

          • I agree Bur, It is just a matter of getting back out there – before the snow flies – but if not, there will always be next spring.

            I do hope to get out there before fall. YUP – I am sticking with it. YUP, it has been disappointing, a time or two, but I am SURE I am in the right area, and I am even SURE that I now have solved the last riddle.

            “Back in the box” to figure things out. Kinda reminds me of what I think the place Indulgence is secreted – Kinda in a box.

            Good luck to you Bur, Hope you can get out to the rockies soon. Keep on Keepin’ on – JDA

          • As we should know, there are many different kinds of
            bicycles. The common thing is that a bicycle has 2 wheels.
            I think that if FF used a “bicycle” to carry the valuables on
            the day he hid them in the Rockies, the bicycle was a very small one, and he walked it (using it as a cart) instead
            of sitting on it, pedaling. But a sled could also do the job.

            The above is all part of my opinion.

  39. Solve is in place and bored with waiting for it… Looking for some vicarious treasure-hunting excitement… Through the Googles, I’ve identified W.C. Jameson as the man I want to read, but does anyone have any recommendations on which of his books are good?

    I’m between “The Silver Madonna…” and his memoir “Treasure Hunter…” at the moment and will probably just get both, but it never hurts to ask.

  40. Geological features, if you look up each clue, they all share the same geological feature! f. Forrest retired , now he’s digging full-time like an archeologist down through the earth’s layers. Example, look up exposed geological rock features for the Little Rocky Mountain’s in Montana , you will find a warm creek and little warm creek layer, the colors in the layers, one is brown, the poam itself seems to point down. Take it in the canyon DOWN, put in BELOW, no paddle up, look quickly DOWN, layer’s, maybe! First two clues on the surface describing a place and the rest working your way down about 200 feet. A vertical map, cool! Just thanking out loud sorry.

  41. Almost ready to go BOTG. I have a tent, sleeping bag, flashlight, califiornian earn, medical supplies, solve, boots, gloves, GPS and extra cash. This should be fun.

    • You mean none of you are going to ask me “what’s a californian earn”?

      So that I can say “:depends on the profession”?

      Do any of you really read posts? lol

    • Have a great time Sparrow.

      How long you going for and what the heck is a “califiornian earn”? Is that where they pay you to go out looking? Why would that not surprise me if they did?


    • Almost, seems like forever at times.
      No book in the bare minimum?
      Exciting to know when you’re on your way, like Christmas Eve as a child.

  42. Well….

    I just started a 10 day vacation. The time has come and I’ll begin a 22 hour drive tomorrow morning to my search area. I’m excited and a little apprehensive since I’ll be going alone. Searching alone doesn’t worry me… its the long drive!

    I have a good feeling about my location but that doesn’t mean I’ll find it. All I can do is try my best. If I come up empty, it’ll be a very long 22 hours home!!

    Wish me luck!


    • Best of luck to you TimM. 22 hour drive can be rough. I frequently made 14 hour drives from California to NM, when I was much younger. Be good to yourself. stop and sleep at least 5 hours – a time or two if necessary – STAY SAFE – JDA

  43. I’m fairly new to this. Can anyone point me in the direction of where ff specifically stated the chest/treasure is not in Arizona?
    I realize there is disagreement on whether the RM’s extend that far. Just looking for a specific quote ruling this out.

    • Wayne;

      If you have not looked at it yet, may I direct you to the “Cheat Sheet” that is located at the very top of every thread. One item you will see is a statement that the treasure is found in one of four states – NM, Colorado, Wyoming or Montana. Also, If you are not familiar with Tarryscant.com – you should try it. You can type in almost anything related to the search and see any and all statements made by Forrest regarding that topic.

      Welcome to the chase – JDA

  44. * * * * Wayne asked “Can anyone point me in the direction of where ff specifically stated the chest/treasure is not in Arizona?” * * * *

    Ya ‘ta hey-o, Wayne –

    Nope, far as I know there’s no such statement or quote. (though just ’cause I’ve never seen it don’t make it not so).

    But Arizona doesn’t show on the map in his book The Thrill of the Chase. And I’ve never seen the Chuska Mountains considered as part of the Rockies (and again, just ’cause I’ve never seen it don’t make it not so).

    As JD suggested, here’s a useful site for checking out ff quotes, at least a good point of departure for your searches.


    (while helpful, the Cheat Sheet is not actual quotes – you’re right to want to see the actual source for such things, Wayne)


    • Thank you both for the replies. Yes, I struggled with the state not being on TTOTC map. But then I thought that if the poem were the map, and it lead someone to Arizona, technically he would be in compliance with his instructions.
      It’s probabky nothing, but I have a solid solve there. I was just looking for a reason not to search a state he ruled out. This thing is hard enough with the known states.
      Thanks again.

      • Wayne;

        In “Forrest Gets Mail – 8” Forrest says the following:

        Have you narrowed the search area for the treasure?
        Yes, I said the treasure is hidden in the Rocky Mountains at least 8 miles north of Santa Fe, excluding Utah, Idaho, and Canada. I have said it is above 5000’ and below 10,200.

        To me this sums it up nicely. The Rocky mountains do NOT go into Arizona, and he ways that the treasure is hidden IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAINS – Therefore NOT in Arizona. Of the states that DO include the Rocky Mountains, he eliminates Utah, Idaho and Canada – Leaving only NM, CO, WY ant MT.

        Based on the above, I would reconsider my Arizona solve. Why go where Forrest says it is not? JMO – JDA

      • On the one hand, he has signed his name to a few hundred poster-size prints of that map. There are differences between the three versions, but all lack Arizona, and all say that “Forrest Fenn’s hidden treasure is . . . to be found . . . yada yada Rocky Mountains . . . on this map.”

        On the other hand, you won’t be racing too many other chasers if you search in Arizona.

        (I search in Utah at least once most years, ’cause I love the topography so much.)


      • Wayne: don’t search an excluded state. It’s absolutely not in Arizona.

  45. I’ve been thinking about that troublesome first stanza…. and reduced to its bare bones it’s says:

    Alone I can keep & hint. So…..

    Keep = hold, retain. Hint = give, tell.

    Stretching a bit, can Keep & Hold mean … Catch & Release?

    • OS2;

      Kinda – “Catch and Release” memories. Forrestl’s memories from childhood, and into young adulthood. Memories of a place – going back through eons and eons – going back to when the earth was first formed 4.8 billion years ago.
      “Catch” – bring these memories forward from wherever they lie – “Release” – give them light – think about them – release them to the world for all to see and share in their beauty.

      YES – I like your “Catch” and “Release” idea – Thanks for sharing – JDA

      • Ha! JDA, you added another layer… a cache of memories, a ‘cache & release’. And to add yet another one, for the future finder it will be a ‘cash & release’. My original thought was only to a designated catch & release river.

        • Come to think of it, what is more ‘alone’ than catch & release fishing? You have no evidence of the trophy you caught, not even some dinner to proudly share. Only you know what happened out there hip deep in dark waters in the moonlight of a Brown Drake hatch.

  46. Interesting observation in TTOTC
    I notice that on p 110 there is a postage stamp sort of image. It says Tuesday 28 APR. I thought the date said 1974 but its a bit blurry so hard to tell. So, I decided to look it up. Turns out 28 Apr 1974 was a Sunday-not a Tuesday. However; 28 Apr 1874 was a Tuesday. So why use a postage stamp from 1874? This was before FF’s time. What is the significance of this date?

    • Flutter, I’m not able to reduce my thoughts on post marks to a brief statement at this time, but you might want to track them to the age Forrest appears to be in each story. Some photos are out range to the stories too. That directive for the poem about ‘consecutive’ seems a bit suspect. Maybe its saying more than just 1- 2- 3- A- B-C.

    • Flutterby: I wouldn’t get too hung up on the postmark stamps. 13 of the 20 have full legible days and dates, and all 13 are the wrong day of the week. If one were guessing days of the week, the odds of getting 13 out of 13 wrong would be about 13.5%, or a little worse than 1 in 7. In other words, not all that unlikely.

      • Here’s an early Fenn response to an email 10/2/2012
        “You are not the first to figure the postmarks into some kind of equation.”
        Here’s a Fenn comment from the interview with Susan Caldwell, Lou, Forrest and Peggy talking about the new TFTW book 7/8/2013
        “Like with the Thrill of the Chase, Susan put the postmarks in there and the little corners on the photographs.”
        This last one has evaded detection from a lot of players that thought the postmarks were relevant…

          • Jake ! There is a whole comedy act just busting to get out. Fenn is a cool cat with a startling sense of humidorless.

        • Thank you very much Ken for clearing up the postmarks. I only started thinking about them two days ago. Now I don’t have to waste time thinking that through anymore. On to more important thoughts!

          • No problem…even though this info has been available for years some folks have spent A LOT of time on the post marks. That said, I think everything should be scrutinized to some extent.

      • Hi Ken: it’s interesting that people bring up the postmark stamps all the time, but I don’t know that anyone has ever mentioned the missing corners on photographs that intersect each other. I can see cipher geeks going to town on those, but sometimes artistic license is simply that.

        • true that. more interesting is the human propensity to complicate the cr@& out of everything…myself included.

          • I think I remember somebody once said that if you change the year there was something significant in US history.

  47. Lugnutz, JDA, Bur, and others,

    Our conversation regarding hints in TTOTC was misplaced on the wrong page. I’m moving it here.

    As mentioned previously, I think most hints are subtle. They are saying something different than we might originally think they are. There are a few bolder hints, but I did not include them on my list.

    Bur suggested that I look for a theme. Obviously Bur didn’t recognize the theme that is there in the subtle hints because I didn’t include the bolder hints. I’ve been working on this poem for years and there is definitely a theme IMO. But, many hints are subtle and not recognized easily. We think FF is talking about one thing when in fact, he is saying describing else entirely. How do I know this? Because I am starting to make sense out of the poem and it fits the hints precisely IMO.

    If you can’t see the theme going on in these hints, then possibly you don’t understand the poem yet. Maybe the hints will help.

    Here is the previous post that was placed on the wrong page.


    I’ve decided to go through the book and list the things I think are hints. I believe most of the hints are subtle. And then there are the suggestions that leave you wondering if they might be hints, but I think they are not. I’ll cover those also.


    p 4
    “I tend to use words that aren’t in the dictionary, and others that are, I bend a little.

    p 6
    “Actually, the only thing about me that’s old is my body. My mind statys at about thirteen”

    p 6
    “skylight in my bathroom flat above the shower” (this is mentioned in a scrapbook page as well)

    p 9
    So one day when it was raining, I went to Border’s to see about those books”

    p 7
    “He (father) was just standing there by the car doing something important, and he siad it to me out of the blue”

    p 10
    “That little lady probably knew where every book was in the at whole store, and when we arrived at the exact spot she pulled down two books and just handed them to me and walked away, tossing her thick brainds back and forth like they had purpose.

    p 11
    “for old guys who are pretty much covered up with their lives already, its a different story”

    “At Borders the next day it was still raining so I just wandered around the store”
    “it seemed better to me because I didn’t expect much from it”

    Admittedly the places in JD’s book were different from mine and the names were different and the time was different from mine, and the schools I never heard of were obviously different, but other than that it was my very own story line”

    p 14
    “To the Caliph I am dirt, but to the dirt I am a Caliph”
    “Catcher in the Rye” (not the book-just the words)
    “Time Magazine” (not the magazine-just the title)

    p 15
    “Sooner or later each of us will be nothing but the leftovers of history or an asterisk in a book that was never written” This is in my opinion, the most important hint in the entire book!

    p 17
    “a little jar of green olives”

    p 20
    “Biddies” “zero population growth”

    p 21
    “nature’s long-sightedness”
    “everyone around our block”

    p 23
    “my eyes were open, it as just my lids that were closed”

    p 24
    “rage had found a home” (helps to understand how FF arrived at HOB)

    p 25
    “words began to sink in”

    p 26
    “you should not always tell ALL the truth”

    p 33
    “pie factory on First Street and French”
    “hot inside by the stoves, so a giant fan would blow the aroma of fried pineapple pies right out there on the sidewalk in front of me.”

    p 33
    “grand-motherly” old lady

    p 35
    “Me in the Middle”

    p 38
    “when they came brown out of the oven”

    p 40
    “time to think in a graveyard”

    p 42
    “The flashing flames made dancing shadows that seemed to move with the music”

    p 45
    Then my father sold our ’36 Chevy and got a ’41 Plymouth instead. . .I felt insecure for a long time after that.”

    p 47
    “deep potholes on Canyon Street”

    p 48
    “Each dish and pan had to be washed by hand, dipped in scalding water and dried. Whew! My hands turned white. . . What I really hated to wash were the giant kettles used for making brown gravy”

    p 48

    p 48
    “Frosty . . there was a severe scene. . . He wasn’t even the boss; he was just the manager”

    p 57
    “should have buried him standing up”

    p 59-64 Looking For Lewis and Clark
    I believe this entire story is talking about something else- a story within a story

    p 65
    “Skppy had an old car with no top”

    p 67
    “Finally we dropped about a foot straight down into a stream of fast-moving water, and when we got to the other side the car stopped with a terrible jolt. . . I was thrown onto the front seat”

    p 70
    “Shoulder to shoulder and bolder and bolder”

    p 73-103 My War For Me
    There are so many hints contained in the telling of this story, but they are subtle and probably not what most people think they are IMO

    p 107
    “French watercolor”
    “pictured a bunch of fairies dancing around a rock”

    p 111
    Multiple names for the same thing-bronze Indian, Indian, art, bronze, sculpture.

    “After everyone had taken a turn, we went out back and sat on the grass by the pond, because I wanted to ask the students what they had learned”
    “reversed image of George Washington”=reflection

    “five senses”- should all be used in searching for the TC IMO

    “simply have it restored”

    p 117
    “Time had taken them apart but eventually brought them back together”

    “I dreamed the other night that I had been reincarnated as Captain Kidd and went to Gardiner’s Island looking for treasure”

    “I was jarred awake”

    p 136
    “Safe upon the solid rock the ugly houses stand: Come and see my sining palace built upon the sand”

    p 137
    “Crayton Fenn” – just his name- nothing else

    “It doesn’t matter who you are, it only matters who they think you are”

    p 139
    Frogs are kind of my specialy because I like to fabricate long legs and buggy yes in the soft wax”

    “He molded so many lives”

    p 147
    “I wish I could have lived to do, the things I was attributed to”
    “great banquet table of history”

    p 7
    “I’ll never get over that”

    p 9
    “she raised her coffee cup to take a sip. And I swear that cup all but covered her whole face.”

    p 11
    “Robert Redford” (just his name-that’s it)

    p 13
    “my self confidence was really down at the bottom”

    p 25
    “biscuits were hot on his plate”

    p 27
    “old iron thing”
    “heavy brown color”

    p 32
    “brown bag”

    p 37
    “Air Rifle”

    p 38
    “meadowlarks for supper”

    p 43
    “Main Street Cowboys”

    p 65-66
    buffalo bulls and Cody

    p 121
    “rather switch than fight”

    “Flywater”- the word, not the book itself

    So there you have many of the hints I see in TTOTC. I’m sure others would disagree. But, I think the hints are mostly subtle suggestions rather than directions or specific directions.

    And Yes- There is a definite theme going on! IMO

    • Flutterby,

      Your theme hints are quite a bit different then mine but there are certain hints among the ones you post that relate to mine. Skippy knew this part of Forrest and I can see he might have carried it into his life too. Understanding how it had continued to embrace Forrest can be seen in a multitude of things that are now part of his history.

      Flutterby you seem to be understanding Forrest a little more then most others but he hides parts of his life and that’s the mystery we need to unfold. If that challenge can be met then you might have a better understanding of the poem clue solves or at least this is what I have come across.


      • Bur

        Since you mentioned F hides parts of his life, how about the biggest part occupying 25% of his whole life?

        What did Forrest, at any age, do in the Winter?

        What gives man?

        • Lugnutz,

          If you look through the scrapbooks here ( as I’m sure you have) there is a few he talks about winter in. There is one statement about a picture of his grandson standing in snow and Forrest said- Shiloh shoveling snow for my portal – or something like that. Portal struck me funny until I got to my 7th clue solve.

          Not sure what particular your refer to Lug as occupying 25% of his life, but believe there are a few thing that fit that question. I’m sure your research involves your special way of solving the clues and I’m sure mine is much different.
          So what did Forrest do?

          Now for what gives man? Sounds like my bro’s would say to me when I graduated high school in the early 70’s, and my response was “you man.”

          • Bur,
            I think Lugnutz is asking what FF did in the wintertime because winter is 1/4 of the year or 25%. I could be wrong, but think that is what he is saying.

      • Bur,
        Thank you for the compliment. You may not have noticed that all of the hints I have listed from TTOTC are geography related.

      • He hasn’t hid his life from us. He’s told us exactly who is important to him. If I am correct in my solve, his poem is a tribute and the whole thing has his father, siblings, Eric sloane, and the man his father named him after being payed tribute in some way. It’s awesome. This is all imho until the time comes to get it. God bless.

        • Jake,

          There are many influential people in his life and I’m not saying some of those people couldn’t have played a role in his mind when he consider hiding the chest. There is one special person that had been to his special place but there is more reasons why he chose it. Yes his life seems like a open book but all you read is parts and really there is so much more.

          Thanks for your input and good luck,

        • I keep on throwing random, scatterbrain thoughts out on the blog in the hope it might help someone to connect some dots on their solve. Let me know if it’s getting annoying and you want me to stop…

          P7. – The Sloane aberration about “two weeks later” vs. actual 32 days later and potentially traffic light vs. parking meter always have me scratching my head in two different directions.
          1) – “Life for Eric was a rule of thumb” – is there any correlation with the Philadelphia caper (where Forrest occulted Philadelphia with his thumb? He describes a moving his hand in and out, making a fist and sticking out his thumb and moving it an inch from his left eye (side note – you have to close the right eye for this to occult anything with your thumb that close – try it). But the thumb out thing is something I envision artists to do to gain relative perspective based on the cartoons of my youth . Astronomers can use an extended arm method to quickly estimate arc angles (that looks too close to something else) in the night sky. I still can’t figure out why the thumb thing had such a profound effect on Forrest? (also Philadelphia caper brings to mind Manhattan Project)
          2) – “Hint of Riches” seems so close to Hinrichs. Is it a hint to anagram?

          • @Argillite, so far finding your thoughts very tolerable! lol! Overall hoD has been very good lately, lots of stimulating ideas. One poster prompted me to go the library and check out a few books, currently reading a bio on Buffalo Bill and have another one on Crazy Horse, also one on Western Art….I have a few thoughts about the blaze, tarry scant, your creek, heavy loads, water high and more all from just this past week of lurking around here! 5555 (lol)!

  48. From my humble observations I have noticed that All serious searchers seem a little obsessed and crazy to non-searchers (Muggles?).
    It’s interesting that only one can ever be vindicated for their time and effort as well as their occasional alienation from family and friends. And what might appear to be obvious insanity.
    Nobody can be made to understand why a searcher believes in their solution or knows what he (or she) knows. This can be very frustrating.
    The only thing that can convince anybody to believe and to justify the months and years of persecution is to produce the treasure chest itself. Period.
    That day will be really sweet for that someone. 🙂
    Just my 2¢ for the day.

    • I hear you, Randawg. My 86 year old father doesn’t miss an opportunity to tell me how much money he is making as a day trader on the stock market….a not so veiled hint that I could be spending my time much more productively, LOL. I tried to get my sister involved/interested, including a 12 day camping trip thru Wyoming/Montana with a stop at West Yellowstone for Meet-up-in Montana – and her take-away is that we are all pretty crazy and more than mildly obsessed. Which isn’t too far from the truth! I can literally hear my daughter’s eyes rolling when I bring up an idea I want to bounce off of her. All that said, I don’t regret a moment of the chase and will probably keep involved until I’m declared officially crazy or find the treasure…whichever comes first.

    • Hi Sandy: that’s what’s nice about a blog like Dal’s. It provides an outlet for “getting things off our chest” without the eye-rolling. Let’s face it, if someone hasn’t spent hundreds of hours on this crazy Chase, they’re probably not going to “get it.” Here, we’re all specialists in a very esoteric field, so it’s a source of some comfort to know you’re not completely crazy … or at least that you have plenty of company, even if they are scattered hither and yon. I do have a couple close friends who have read TTOTC that I’m able to use as sounding boards for ideas, so I consider myself pretty fortunate.

    • Hi Randawg, While the chest would be the ultimate justification/reward the Chase has provided me with a great many side benefits in addition to the obvious benefits of physical exercise in the spendours of the Rockies. Doesn’t every spent hiking, rafting, fishing in the Rockies add two days two your life expectancy? I’m learning things about history, about art, geography, archeology, and on and on that I wouldn’t have touched on in my day to day life. I think the Chase will represent a fascinating body of study for a multitude of people for decades perhaps centuries, even if Indulgence is found. The camaraderie that has developed between people of diverse backgrounds alone would represent a fascinating thesis topic. That said, I wish I could get my wife a little more excited about it.

  49. Folks I have returned from my search and will be posting my solution when it is finalized. Sad to say I did not find the treasure and I am sure you will find my solution very interesting.

    For now I will catch up on the posts here since I was gone.


    • Welcome back CharlieM – Sorry that you did not find Indulgence. I look forward to reading your solve. Keep smilin’ Charlie, even if it hurts a bit – JDA

        • Better to be out there searching if willing & able than be here.
          No substitute for BOTG even if you’re not where the treasure is hidden.
          When are you heading out again ken?

          • I have not been out since last year…and have not made definite plans as of yet. There is no rush/hurry.
            How about you Jake?

          • Jake. I believe the treasure is actually more likely to be found by a searcher that has made very few trips to search. Those who live far away, prohibitive expenses, or are otherwise restricted in doing BOTG, are going to be pretty sure of having a complete solution through the blaze before committing I think. Of course this is a generalization, and does not imply that searchers making many BOTG foraged are not putting thought and effort into their solutions. Just my opinion that the one who ultimately finds the chest will have pre-solved the location to within yards and will go with confidence directly to that small area. Tom

          • The more miles away from the Rockies, the harder it is if you don’t have the money or time.
            Yes, those further away & that don’t live in or around the treasure area are more likely to have a better solve IMO.

            If I lived in Taos & the treasure was not hidden there, I would have an advantage on quantity but not quality.

          • Jake;

            I read your comment – It made me a bit mad – Decided to comment, then decided not – but here I am again.

            How can there possibly be a correlation between how close one lives to the search area, and the quality of their solve? Distance away has NOTHING to do with the quality of a solve – IMO.

            If that were the case, the guys living in Great Britain, New Zealand or some other far-away land would have found it.

            You are saying that you, who lives in Florida, has a better chance of developing a better solve than someone living nearer the Rockies – nonsense.

            Everyone has the same opportunities, the same poem, the same ATF information – period!

            Will I, who lives only a few hours away from my search area go to my area if I am not sure about my Solve – not likely. Why spend gas money, food money and Hotel costs if I am not sure? Sorry, I just do not have that kind of money to throw away.

            A well thought-out solve takes time, effort and good planning. Proximity to search area has NO effect on these things – JMO – JDA

          • I agree with Jake in general, though maybe it needs a qualifier of on average for it to be more accurate.

            JDA, regardless of your beliefs for each of your individual trips, someone coming from farther away never makes it to your depth of searches in one spot – they either refine their thought process or abandon that location after 2-3 trips max.

          • JDA,
            We all don’t have the same opportunity no matter what F said.

            I would be willing to bet that most of those that live in a search state, search in that state 1st. I know I would.

            If you had a solve that was practically in your backyard, chances are you would search there right away without worrying about the $ & miles & that tells me there was not as much thought process as those further away.

            Quantity over quality ups your chances but we are just talking about odds in the middle of the chase.

          • True, true. Quality vs quantity, those who live closer any little hunch will be a good excuse to keep going back to the same spot. Human nature.

          • I think JDA has some advantages over all of us.
            He is retired and has plenty of time to read the poem over and over.
            Also, you live fairly close to your search area. So basically, you should be the one that finds the treasure.
            Clearly Clueless

          • Thanks Clearly Clueless;

            Yes, I am retired, and not only have I read the poem over and over, I have memorized it through repetition.

            Yes, I live close to my search area, and have made twenty trips there over 30 months.

            All of the reading, and even the memorization, and all twenty trips means nothing if I am searching in the wrong area though – but I feel that I am not in the wrong area.. I DO feel that I am searching the correct area.

            Unraveling the knots of the poem is like untangling the knots that occasionally show up in my long hair. The only difference is that I can snip out a bit of hair to untangle it, you can’t do that with the poem – ALL parts are needed – so it takes a bit longer – 30 months now, and still counting. Maybe trip number 21 will be it – Who knows? JDA

          • The way I look at it from distance POV is those that are not living in the search states or close by tend not to be as biased to the state they search 1st.

            I had no favorite state before the chase except New Mexico after driving through there on the way to Nevada back in 2011.

            Don’t get mad.
            Get even.
            There’s only one way to do that.

          • Living in or near one of the four search states can be its own curse.

            “A policeman sees a drunk man searching for something under a streetlight and asks what the drunk has lost. He says he lost his keys and they both look under the streetlight together. After a few minutes the policeman asks if he is sure he lost them here, and the drunk replies, ‘No, I lost them in the park.” The policeman asks why he is searching here, and the drunk replies, ‘This is where the light is.'”

          • Zap,
            You would make a good bartender.
            Millions of people have not been within 500′ of the treasure IMO.
            There’s your tip.
            You’re welcome.

        • Same here, figured as much.
          I’m waiting for someone else to find it.
          1 trip a year doesn’t cut it.

          • Zap,
            Now that you said that, I’m going to go back there again.
            Thank you!

      • I also think that Zap’s assertions that millions have passed withing 500 feet is odd.

        He searches in a state with 1 million people in the population.
        2 million visit Glacier Nat Park but that is spread out over hundreds of square miles, one million sq acres. You literally cannot get from one entrance to the other. So there is nowhere there that millions have passed. Yellowstone? 3.5 million annual visitors. Over 2 mil acres. the 3 Montana entrances lead you into Wyoming. He must mean that millions of people pass a point on the way to one of those entrances. And then the TC must be within 500 feet of one of those 4 highways.

        Hwy 20 (287), 191 or 89. 212 but not a lot of searching out that way.

        I don’t get it.

        • Hi Lug: I threw out the million people figure to tantalize, but I think it is a safe underestimate. I said more than a million since the Chase started. Call that 7.5 years. That’s an average of ~133,000/year, 365/day, or 15 per hour. That is really not that much traffic.

      • For some reason that made me think of a teacher putting a little gold star on a great paper.
        I wonder if Mr. Fenn got stars on his papers in school?
        He joked about not being great at school, yet…..

  50. Short update…

    I drove for about 11 and a half before my back pain made me stop for the night… just shy of 700 miles. Tomorrow I get to do it again.

    A few observations from the road…

    – no one should have to look at corn fields for that long!
    – take advantage of every rest stop because the next one is closed or there is a traffic jam.
    – an old Chevy 2500 HD is not a comfortable ride for any long distance trip
    -after this trip I may have to change my screen name to “iron butt”

    Take care! Be safe!


    • Lol!! I feel you pain, Iron Butt!
      Mine went numb on the drive from Texas to Montana and lost all feeling somewhere in Wyoming. Safe travels!!

    • TimM
      Your sense of humor is great.
      It will help you through the boring parts of this adventure.
      Happy Hunting!
      Clearly Clueless

  51. Just wondering…anyone else have something they carry with them on searches to replace the chest if they find it?

    • Yes Sean;

      I have a children’s lunch pail. Inside is a bottle of Grapette Soda and a log book and pen so that if anyone finds it, they can log in – giving Name and Date that they found it. Instructions give my email address, in hopes that they will email me – Who knows, an email just might be worth their time.

      I have also requested that the finder return the site to the EXACT condition in which they found it, so that the next searcher will experience the “FIND” just as I did. – JDA

  52. Zap ~ I moved part of your post here [on July 21, 2018 at 10:01 pm said:] ~ ‘If (for instance) the last CLUE is somewhere prior to the 6th stanza, then — quite literally — he hid the treasure before the end of the poem, i.e. “before the poem was complete.” The whole ATF may be an admission that the clues end before the end of the poem.’

    A possibility, sure. Only this question of whether fenn followed the clues as we are supposed to or possibly took a short cut [ cuz he knows the area like the back of his hand ] has been a major interest since day on by searchers. This comment was not preceded by a searcher’s question, but put out there as it read ; “To answer some questions and save others from being asked,..” knowing many have asked and inquired about it over many years with no answer to it… [publicly, until that date] Don’t you find it odd that fenn made this comment if, all it means, is the clues are only in certain stanzas-?- lets say 2-3-4?

    We can’t just let go of other comments that seem to relate, such as; “there is no other way to my [his] knowledge” ~ to follow the clues. Or having all the ingredients, and of course “containing nine clues.. followed precisely” etc. So, my point is… if there is no other way, fenn seemingly needed to follow his own created clues exactly as give [ in deciphered mode ]. IF NOT… then would it be fair to say that, ‘IF we knew what hoB is it would lead to the treasure’ comment, that comment could be nothing more than blowing off the reporter and fenn could have the same for any clue asked about-?- be it meek or creek or HLnWH?

    What I believe fenn attempted to relay is; anyone, including himself needs to follow the clues. The reason for this might be as simple as; fenn need to find the “hidet spot” himself, within the ‘location’ of all the clues he created [ making the clues workable ]
    The act of hiding/camouflaging/burying/covering/place the chest in somewhere, is only the act of making sure no one stumbles upon it, keep it out of view from the searchers and the public. Meaning; he had to follow his own clues he created [at home, on paper, from memory] to find the place the chest lays in wait… ‘In’ his special location.

    Hence the warning; the path [ clues ] would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location [ his special place ] beforehand.
    By doing exactly has we are told to do, fenn found his own “hidey spot”… This idea relates to the thought of the reverse bicycle video. Example; don’t try and find the hide, ‘find the blaze’ that will obviously give us the distance/spot of the chest. {adjust your search mode to the design of the clues}
    The catch here is… are we creating something from the clues, and all are needed to ‘solve the blaze’?

    Nothing is making sense with this stomping mode search. Clues solved, searchers on site, folks walking by all the clues, some at 500′ ~ others getting within 200′ of the treasure, even some may have the first four clues deciphered…and not one, that we know of by fenn’s account, knew anything, or even seemingly pickup the trail on a later clue to continue…
    What I see missing [ from the many thoughts and postings of actual failed searches [ that is not knocking the searcher’s theory ] They all have left out “planning and observation” — the actual need imo, for botg — to ‘complete’ the poem’s clues. They all seem to ‘leave the poem’

    That comment ” they didn’t quit, they left the poem” doesn’t seem to me to mean they walked away, as much as the didn’t use the clues properly… they walked out of the “completed” deciphering. IMO field work [botg] is more than just stomping point to point… fenn is going to make us work for that trove. However, if all goes as planned… the correct understanding of the solve should be known of prior as to what is needed ‘to be done in the field work.’

    “if you’ve been wise [ wise as knowledge of ] and found the blaze [both in past tense] says to me… we need to discover ‘how to find’ the blaze. Discover meaning knowing how to find it, and not so much just walking to it.
    I don’t think fenn could answers Becky’s Q&A because of this reason… The blaze may not be indicated ‘in’ the poem, but the poem is the only way to discover it in the field. The question is; how do we discover the blaze?

    I would also add fenn’s comment; the last clue can’t be seen from GE… So, should the blaze be the indicator that will give up the chest’s hidey spot, it should be the last clue. A clue that can not be seen from satellite images [i’ll even say, and/or a map ] or possibly known of [ to exactly what it is ] prior to botg, but can only be discovered by the poem itself, the poem fenn created for one purpose… For all, fenn included, to be followed “precisely” [exactly, perfectly] to the discovery of the blaze. Otherwise fenn’s comment ~ he followed the clues, and your explanation of what it might mean, would be very misleading to all the other ATF’s/information that seems to relate.

    I can see how you came to the simple conclusion that there is more to the poem [ more words and stanzas ] after the blaze and the trove’s hidey spot. However… we can’t easily dismiss so many other comments about following the clues [or actions of doing so] the difference is; what color was the bear?
    I’m not knocking your thought… it just doesn’t make any sense to what we have been told of over the years for it to mean … hey there’s still more words left in the poem so the poem’s words were not finished at the time of the hiding/retrieval/discovery, hence the poem was not completed?

    • Seeker…
      We have gone down this avenue a few times…so I don’t feel bad for butting in.
      The bear is….
      When you wrote the poem did you start with the first clue or the ninth?
      “I *knew all along* where I wanted to hide the treasure so I didn’t need a map or any information to write the poem. Everything was in my head. It took me a while to get the wording exactly how I wanted it. Counting the clues and hiding the chest came later. It is not likely that anyone will find it without following the clues, at least in their mind.”
      My question is…when the treasure was hidden, did you follow the clues just like they are written in the poem or did you just go to where you wanted to hide it, knowing that the poem would lead someone there? Does that make sense?
      “Tim, I *knew from the beginning where to hide the treasure*. It was later that the clues were provided to find that spot. I don’t know…that the poem will lead someone there, as you asked, but the poem does provide everyone with that opportunity.”

      “They’re contiguous, I knew where I wanted to hide the treasure chest, so it was *easy* for me to put one foot down and then step on it to get to the next foot. So that’s what I did. *But*, I changed it over- I don’t know how many times. I looked up…” Stopped there lest the dictionary cops come out.

      Seeker…it seems that these ATF would not ring true if your scenario, or parts of it are feasible. These are basically the same ones that I posed last time….

      • Ken, you automatically assume that: “I knew where I wanted to hide the treasure chest”.. “I *knew from the beginning where to hide the treasure*”.. “I *knew all along* where I wanted to hide the treasure so I didn’t need a map or any information to write the poem.”
        To be the exact tiny 10″ spot where the chest lays in wait.
        I say fenn might be talking about the “location” the chest is hidden within… hence the warning from the book; The path would not be direct… certainty of the location beforehand.
        IMO he design the clues to actually, find a place, within his location… which I think is relatively a small area. Hence the need to adjust, look at the poem from a different perspective, like a mud puddle to an ant or a thumb that covers a city.
        An area that is [ lets say ] 500′ by 500′ [ in the field ] has 250,000 hidey spots. Only fenn had to use what was available to him in that ‘area’ while still making it difficult. Why would fenn follow his own creation if he knew the “Spot”?
        I think he used the location as best he could to make it difficult that produce a ‘spot’ within, for him to hide the chest. Hence the need to have “been” wise and “found” the blaze, and for him to follow his own clues.

        Follow does not mean simply walking past clues on the way to the hidey spot… By any use of the word.
        That comment he stated was probably the most sought after answer since day one… did fenn follow his own clues or just go to the hidey spot? For him to finally state he followed the clues ‘when’ he hide the treasure chest, tells me there was a need for him to do just as he tells all to do.

        It all falls down to location location location, first and foremost [ but what size is that location? ].
        Then start with the first clue… and be “precise” in your movement and observation.

        Many don’t like the idea that the treasure might be only found during “summer”… I think fenn knew this place well enough to use ‘summer’ [ another question he avoided for almost 8 years ] and had to tarry for the right moment of discovering the 10” hidey spot. [ yet knew about the ‘idea’ beforehand… because he knows the place well.

        The RM’s are still moving and will have an impact on the clues… Well, if [ lets say natural movement ] will make it more difficult as time rolls on… it seems to me “precisely” following the clues is a must. Is precisely only finding a clue reference? lol well that hasn’t helped much, has it.

        Yep, I know… over complicating things… I see this as; if it was so dang easy just to stomp clues and folks being at those clues and within 200′ of their goal… Something ain’t lining up right! or folks are not seeing this correctly. Perspective of observation is what i think is needed.

        • Seeker…You assume that I am automatically assuming. There’s a lot more to it than what I have said at this point…after two or three rounds of this same talk it gets a bit redundant. Like you have said umpteen billion times and most seem to agree to a certain degree…the ATF are good checks and balances, but they have to all make sense when attempting to use them. I’m hungry…talk later….

          • Ken-
            The sherif fractured his tibia while moving the deputy into her new place by Minnehaha falls. The break was a good one (go figure) and he had to have it fixed at Mayos, because not just anyone could put it back together. After a 3 hour surgery, spent 3 days in the hospital there and a week at the deputy’s new place. The trouble is that he is not suppose to put any weight on that leg for THREE MONTHS! By then I think it might just shrivel up and fall off.
            The deputy is tied up and the sherif is laid up, and so we’re looking for another deputy to join our posse. If you might be interested and have the time for a road trip or two, I think together we could finish it. We are in possession of verified and confirmed top secret information. Have Dal sent me your email if interested.

            Best regards;

          • Billy…my deepest sympathies. I had a nasty tib tib smash up 8 years ago. I had multiple surgeries and was non- weight bearing for a long long time. My best advice is to do everything your doctors and PT tell you to. Immerse yourself in the chase and everything else that strikes your fancy. Sometimes it is a blessing in disguise to be able to step away from our lives and just think. You’ll never have an opportunity like this again.

      • IMO, if you don’t follow the clues exactly in order as Mr. Fenn wrote them you will walk by the blaze. I knew exactly what I was looking for and walked right by it. You have to know before you go or you will be walking in circles. The clues basically tells you when to stop and look!

        P.S. Lug, I read somewhere you think there’s a horse near the end, if I read that correctly. You keep looking for him, he’s waiting there too. Good luck!

        • “I knew exactly what I was looking for and walked right by it”
          Get back there as soon as you can Birdie.

          • Jake,
            I am saving every penny & hopefully I can fly over again next Summer. Good Luck!

          • IMO Lugs,
            When you look quickly down you will see him. I emailed Mr. Fenn & asked if he put them there or if the Indians did, I didn’t get a reply but I knew I wouldn’t. I replied earlier to this post but not sure where it went. I won’t say, good luck anymore. I don’t Ken to think I’m an ass. Lol best of luck!

          • Birdie…good luck to you…seriously. My earlier comment about *good luck* was in a totally different context…and only meant to emphasize good conversation.

          • Ken,
            Good to hear, I’m very sincere when I say good luck! I’m too easy going to be an ass anyways. I won’t even kill spiders in my house, all critters get a pass around here. GOOD LUCK KEN!

          • Hi Lady V, thanks for the confidence in my solve. I hope your search is going well

    • Seeker
      That was a long post, but I saw several nuggets of wisdom in there.
      Thanks for sharing.
      And, I know you did not copy all of Zap’s words
      (There was no place for me to comment over there either).
      I think several of his points were well thought out and applicable.
      My mind keeps going to the idea of blueprints, simple yet complex.
      Fun Sunday afternoon thoughts.
      I wish I were in the Rocky Mountains today, instead of LOL in an arm chair.

      Clearly Clueless

      • Sorry about the long post… when the mind get rolling with everything we have heard of… it’s hard to stop clicking keys to get the thoughts out.
        The idea of a blueprint is to build off of it… For me it means… fenn had to do the same, when he hid the chest.

    • Hi Seeker: wow — looks like someone had a few bold cups o’ coffee this morning! It seems my proposed interpretation of the complete/completed Forrest ATF was previously suggested by Ken, so at least I have some company in this thinking. 😉

      As to the question of whether there is a short cut if you know precisely where the chest is located, one of the reasons I like my current solution is that the most direct and safe way to get there will indeed follow Forrest’s clues exactly as laid out. There *is* a more direct route, but it would be unnecessarily dangerous. I think anyone looking at a map would choose the longer but easy route.

      “So, my point is… if there is no other way, fenn seemingly needed to follow his own created clues exactly as give(n) [ in deciphered mode ].”

      Yes, that’s my take. As for the reporter asking him “Who is Brown?” I think Forrest’s answer was probably “gentle” relative to what he was privately thinking to himself. “Yeah, right — I’m going to tell you who Brown is or what home of Brown is, eliminate 3 out of 4 states, and plop you and everyone else down within a few miles of the chest. Why persist in asking a question you KNOW I’m not going to answer?!”

      “What I believe fenn attempted to relay is; anyone, including himself needs to follow the clues.”

      Agreed. Unless you’re a thrillseeker-adrenaline junkie and want to save yourself an hour or so (and possibly die in the process).

      “Nothing is making sense with this stomping mode search.”

      It works perfectly fine for my solution. The clues are sequential and contiguous and are laid out along the shortest safe trajectory to the chest.

      “What I see missing [ from the many thoughts and postings of actual failed searches [ that is not knocking the searcher’s theory ] They all have left out “planning and observation” — the actual need imo, for botg — to ‘complete’ the poem’s clues.”

      IMO, the planning/observation has to do with the execution: how am I going to get there?

      “That comment ” they didn’t quit, they left the poem” doesn’t seem to me to mean they walked away, as much as the didn’t use the clues properly… they walked out of the “completed” deciphering.”

      I would say a couple possibilities are at work. Most of the time, I think it’s that people don’t recognize/solve the third clue. For those few who do, they might have the right guess for what hoB represents, but do not correctly interpret what they’re supposed to do with it, and as a result they “leave the poem.”

      “if you’ve been wise [ wise as knowledge of ] and found the blaze [both in past tense] says to me… we need to discover ‘how to find’ the blaze.”

      Alternatively, it could mean you’ve figured it out what the blaze is as a consequence of solving the preceding clues (in your mind) and realizing where Forrest is taking you.

      “I don’t think fenn could answers Becky’s Q&A because of this reason… The blaze may not be indicated ‘in’ the poem, but the poem is the only way to discover it in the field.”

      I think that’s a fair assessment. I think the most accurate answer Forrest could have given (but wouldn’t, because it’s too revealing) is “Neither”:

      Q1: “Can the blaze be predetermined from the poem…” I would say it cannot. The poem is not enough.

      Q2: “… or can it only be determined at the search area?” I would answer no, because I believe it CAN be determined from home.

      “I would also add fenn’s comment; the last clue can’t be seen from GE…”

      Careful there, Seeker, that’s not quite what Forrest said. He has made two relevant statements about this:

      (11/2/2013 – Moby Dickens Bookshop): “Is it possible to locate the treasure chest without ever leaving your computer and Google Earth?” Forrest: “No it isn’t. Did I really say that? There is not a picture of the treasure chest on Google Earth. Was that your question?” Interviewer: “Yeah, I think that will suffice.” Forrest adds: “Because Google Earth doesn’t go down far enough.”

      (2/4/2018): “Rocking chair ideas can lead one to the first few clues, but a physical presence is needed to complete the solve. Google Earth cannot help with the last clue.”

      If the “last clue” isn’t a thing, but instead an action (e.g. “look quickly down”), then GE isn’t going to help you with that. In contrast, as far as I know Forrest has never said you can’t see the blaze on Google Earth.

      “I can see how you came to the simple conclusion that there is more to the poem [ more words and stanzas ] after the blaze and the trove’s hidey spot. However… we can’t easily dismiss so many other comments about following the clues [or actions of doing so] the difference is; what color was the bear?”

      White. 😉 The bear riddle, IMO, is quite relevant to the Chase. Note its similarity to the Little Gidding stanza that Forrest quoted.

      • Zap;

        I have begun to think that there is a second “Layer” to all this.

        Let’s say that I have figured out the first four or five clues. Let’s say that I am now at “There’ll be no paddle up your creek.” I have figured out from my arm chair what and where I think this place is.

        I can go to this place and say to myself “Yup – you have solved this clue.” – But have I? Maybe there is something to be found at this particular spot that will point me to EXACTLY where my next clue is to be found – My “Heavy Loads” spot.

        I might THINK I know what the “Heavy Loads spot is, and even a general idea of where it is at – But what if there is something at the NPUYC spot that will take me to EXACTLY the correct Heavy Loads spot?

        What is this “Something” that needs to be found? Now THAT is the $64,000 question. Just a feeling that I have had for a month or two now. Wish I could figure it out. Maybe on my next search I will figure it out – Until them, all I can do is cogitate. JDA

        • But, couldn’t you “find” it at home.
          Can’t we solve the whole poem at home?
          Then go get it to prove we solved it.
          Google Earth can’t show it…. Too far.

          • C C

            As I said, I may THINK I have solved all nine clues – each of which take me to a GENERAL location – Say a 15′ X 15′ location – but maybe there is something that will get me closer. As Seeker says, Plan and Observe.

            Being off by several feel at location “A” may lead to being off at Location “B” by 100′ etc – and we are looking for a 10″ X 10″ box or even a 10″ X 5″ box if it is on its side.

            Wouldn’t it be worth it to figure out what this “Something” is that can get you, possibly, within inches, not hundreds of feet? Just a thought – JDA

        • JDA, like you, i got hung up on the heavy load BUT for me, i kept to “no paddle” on sis June cause she was “right”. Also after a comma, “Just” is right. So, my only choice from the end was going to the right which happened to be up the dry creek bed. FWIW, there was no treasure there either. So… just an opinion.

          • Well, we all get hung up on one thing or another. I think Forrest designed it that way 🙂 – JDA

      • Zap ~’If the “last clue” isn’t a thing, but instead an action (e.g. “look quickly down”), then GE isn’t going to help you with that. In contrast, as far as I know Forrest has never said you can’t see the blaze on Google Earth.’

        This is one of those ideas that can be very confusing.
        Remember the Q&A about distance from the blaze to the chest… “the answer… would be obvious.” Would that not make the blaze the last clue IF all we need to do was look-?- from the blaze? I can’t imagine anyone getting that far in the clues and only check out a foot or two from the blaze reference.
        Was the suggestion to look quickly down needed for this as a additional clue to simply look?

        There needs to be a reason why fenn wrote this line… and adding; “but” tarry scant with marvel gaze…” It doesn’t appear to me a simple action of looking or even in a down [ direction ]… yet there is another problematic thought to how the poem would have been different if the line; Just take the chest and leave my bone or leave my bones and take the chest [ I forget how it was originally told to us ] was still in play. Was Tarry scant with marvel gaze represented in another fashion [ to keep a rhyming stanza ]?

        I agree it the last clue could be an action rather than a thing, sure, you’re not going to find it on any type of mapping. But IF there is a clue reasoning for Look quickly down,… but tarry scant with marvel gaze, as something needed to do at a specific time … doesn’t that time need to be known of from another part of the poem? Which means a previous clue or clues help to understand, when and where and why. So IF, in this scenario… is it really the last clue?

        Not only do i think many are reading NF,BTFTW wrong, but I also think many are reading, drawing, HLnWH and There’ll be no paddle up your creek with the wrong idea [ lol and take it in and put in, but we’ll skip that for now ]. Like fenn stated a few times, in different ways; it’s not a matter of trying its a matter of thinking, and need to think the right thoughts, and people don’t see it the way he does, as well as need to learn what WWH is and a few other comments.

        Do we stop learning clues after WWH and just simple stomp them or do we need to learn how they work?
        All I’m saying is; yes a clue can be deciphered prior to what it “represents” But needs to be understood why when in the field ~ field work. Yes, IMO there is field work to be understood, and not just finding a clues reference/description in the field. That is why I think clues 3 4 have stumped us. They are not places as much as information for later “usage.” But folks are getting hung up on a clue ~ must be usable at the time/place it is mentioned/written in the poem.

        For a simple example; stanza 2 may all relate to ‘put in below the home of Brown’ rather than looking for home of Brown after a unknown distance of movement. leaving “from there” to be at WWWH. It’s a simple concept if you think about it… It tells us the correct WWWH out of all the possible representation of WWH throughout the RM’s.

        You have to learn WWWH… deciphering it reference is only telling you what it is. I think the same goes for all the clues. Just like the blaze..we need to learn/understand what it does.

        Of course this post is full of it… opinions I mean.

        • Seeker, you said you think the clues are not places as much as information for later “usage.

          I don’t agree with that theory. To me, it all comes down to f’s definition of what a clue does for searchers in the Chase. Clues get us closer to the tc.

          Since a clue out in the field gets us closer to the tc once someone deciphers it, I don’t see anyway how any clue information can be used to leapfrog other clues later on. It goes against the definition.

          Now, I do believe that hints can play a crucial role in helping to determine certain clues..,specifically the first clue and the blaze.

        • Hi Sherif Billy: no, not once, nor have I ever expected him to. (I think I’ve only emailed him 3 times in 3+ years, and not at all since 2017). If he read any of them, he knows my WWWH, but I’ve not shared my last three end-to-end solutions with him — didn’t see the point. I figure he gets enough emails — no need to add to his load. If/when he hears from me again, it would only be to arrange a hand-off of a certain silver and turquoise bracelet. 😉

          • Zap- I’m not surprised because f wants to be fair to everyone pursuing the chase. But I can assure you he is following your progress.

            Best regards;


          • Mr. Billy, are you speaking for Mr. Fenn?
            Has he read Mr. Zap’s emails and isMr. Fenn now following Zap?
            Clearly Clueless

          • CC: I’m sure the Sherif is just hypothesizing while convalescing. And while Forrest is probably familiar with many of the “regular suspects” on Dal’s and their ideas (after all, he does post here on occasion), I’ve seen no evidence that he pays any particular attention to me over anyone else.

  53. Given this is the site for Odds and Ends then about the Odd drawing at the End of The Thrill of the Chase;

    Over on the ‘Flipside’ they spent a great deal of time discussing this very drawing since it doesn’t seem to fit the story as all the other drawing do…

    So here is my take on this Epilog drawing; all the stumps represent what was once a “Forest.” In this particular case they are symbolic for Forrest’s life.

    If you look at the picture of the “lumberjack” I don’t think he is wearing lumberjack clothing but instead fly fishing waders. I believe the stumps equate to the individual trees (stories/episodes/achievements) which make up Forrest Fenn’s life, but they have now been chopped down by Forrest himself. This symbolizes completions.

    Forrest said that hiding the chest was consistent with his belief in living a life that pushes the edges and “It was a special time of fulfillment for [him].”

    His book “The Thrill of The Chase” and the poem were the final pieces. The epilog is the end of his broader story and so is the artwork…

    I don’t want to be too presumptuous so the next part seems more speculative.

    Ok her it goes; the stumps are like gravestones since they occurred in the past and you can never really go back to them – they are gone just as if they were dead. The stories are the epitaphs for each stump or gravestone and Forrest is standing at the end of his life looking into the future after his death and he goes to take his place a small light in the darkness of time and space.

    When he was a boy and sat in the graveyard secretly at night, I suppose he stared up into the night sky at all those billions of stars and realized that they were as unknown to him, as the people who were buried in the cemetery!

    The ‘dove’ nested on the moon could be symbolizing that with the hiding of the chest and the completion of TTOTC, Forrest for the first time was at peace with this and his light in the night sky… …


    • GCG- here’s my take on that epilogue drawing, he’s telling readers what the home of Brown is.

      Brown is capitalized to indicate proper name usage but not Brown, thats too obvious.
      the axeman has cut down trees but we only see the stumps that remain. trees cut to build a home or cabin. the bird is at home in a nest. thats why the axeman is looking at the bird. the cabin we need to find is at the Draper Museum of Natural History, the Byrd Naturalist cabin. it is a shade of brown as all cabins are. the Byrd cabin also sits at an “elevation” of 10,000 feet. it is here we are instructed to “put in” as 10,000 feet is the highest elevation at the Draper. the bird of the drawing is nested in the moon to represent dark. many drawings in TTOTC are at night to represent the low light levels kept at the museum to preserve artifacts.

      i think.

      • also GCG i forgot to mention if you look at the “Others Adventures” link and the click on “A Fun, Safe, Side Trip” by Dodo bird you can see a photo i took of the Byrd Naturalist Cabin at the Draper….with a sign next to it that says “Expedition Trailhead” no better place to put in. EH?

    • There was a while I kept on trying to equate the drawing with Bootes and Corona Borealis and P133 with Hercules and Lyra. And the Binocular guy with Perseus and Cassiopeia. ….(as you know I haven’t found the solution yet….I’m probably not using deep logic). Dancing with the Stars always seems to stick in the back of my mind.

      I really like your reference back to the boy in the graveyard and your interpretation of the drawing.

    • GCG, somewhere at the beginning of ttotc he wrote ‘if it wasn’t for my name I wouldn’t have anything at all’ or something like that. Maybe you’re onto something…

      • OZ10,

        My inspiration for this interpretation, is predicated on that exact quote.


    • IMO,
      Noah’s dove comes to mind, he ( Nohah) looked to the heavens for help, maybe you should too.

    • Very well put, GCG.

      When all is said and done,
      we can but look back and marvel
      at the life we lived
      and look forward to what will come.


  54. Just asking: What if the after 7+ years, the blaze had been toppled or dislodged face down by foot traffic or weather at 500′ or 200′, just like the Frenchman’s grave marker? Searchers could have trampled on it, and went past without realizing they were on top of the blaze. It might be laying there unread for a thousand years….

    • Make sure to look on the back of every Lee Metcalf sign you come across. There are only so many

  55. So just putting a thought out there…it has probably been discussed previously but I have not seen it so just wanted to see if anyone wants to discuss this.

    So what’s the hurry? The poem hints a couple of times that the searcher should be in a hurry once the blaze has been identified. The poem instructs the searcher to look ‘quickly’ down and then ‘tarry scant’ before leaving. Now I know there is a million different ideas about what these two things could mean other than literally acting quickly to finding/retrieving the chest and getting the heck out of the area….but what if he does really mean that the searcher needs to act quickly in the area of the chest? Assuming ff means that the searcher needs to act quickly finding and then going, what are the implications in terms of types of areas that would require someone to be fast? For example, could this area have people around and might notice you? Any other ideas why the searcher needs to be fast?

    • Dave from KC,
      I don’t think the searcher needs to act quickly. I think “look quickly down” means something else. One possibility is that “look quickly” might mean peek (take a quick look) which mean a mountain peak. I’m sure there are other options also. This is my opinion

      • Dave from KC –

        Among the many ways we use the word Quick I will mention one to you. Quick means alive.

        As in The Quick and the Dead


        • Hi Lugnutz, I too look for the double meanings. Multiple meanings might be relevant to the area. Quickly could tie into tarry scant….but seem to indicate not to linger. But these words might also give the searcher other important info as well…quickly down might indicate a short distance downstream, down hill, south, etc. Tarry scant hots LOTS of potential other meanings that might describe what is covering the chest or describe the blaze. I just think it is interesting that quickly and tarry scant could be related. I also think bold, meek, and brave could be related. If the searcher is finding the chest in a location that requires the searcher to act quickly and to not linger…might that searcher also need to be bold and a bit brave (i.e. not meek)? I am not subscribing to this…just putting it out there…if all of these ‘straight forward’ meanings are related it could give the searcher an idea about some characteristics of the hidey spot. Dave

          • Dave from KC;

            Tarry Scant can indeed have several meanings.

            One is a stone that has been sawn on two sides, like a grave marker – Like the one shown on p 95 of TToTC.

            Tarry can mean like tar – so a black sawn stone.

            Forrest could even be showing a sense of humor –
            Instead of tarry scant – How about Tarry Scat – A BIG
            pile of bear poo. I know of just such a rock formation
            🙂 Don’t spend a lot of time in wonderment looking at the Big Pile of Bear Poo 🙂 _ JDA

          • Hi JD, yep, was aware of those definitions for tarry and scant. And I think rock formations are kind of like a Rorschach test…different people see different things in them depending on their personality. Apparently, you are the type that sees giant piles of bear poo in rock formations…I am not a professional so I am not sure what that says about your personality JD 🙂
            Just kidding of course. Dave

      • Flutterby –

        Peek (peak) is a great idea.
        No I am wondering if you have applied the same thinking to other clues.
        Take a clue and use a different from of the word that would make it relevant to the chase. And thereby, see how it was that F came to change the word.

        To look quick is to peek. so he replaced the word peek in his minds eye with quick on the page.

        What the blazes is Lugnutz going on about now anyhow?

        • Hi Flutterby/Lugnutz, Peek/Peak is interesting for look quickly. So I guess in that scenario the blaze would be at the highest point of the water high and the chest would be at the base of that highest point. Who knows. Dave

          • Dave,
            So far, I see nothing in the poem that tells me that the blaze is at the highest point of the water high, or that the chest is at the base. Unless I can figure out the poem, I won’t know. However; I do think the poem is telling us that HOB is associated with the blaze. IMO

        • For “Look Quickly” I have used ‘peak’, ‘glance’ and even ‘pivot’…

          When Forrest says, “your effort will be worth the cold.”

          I feel he already knew how much could be learned about language and poetry (alone), just through a serious effort to interpret his clues.

          My vocabulary was pretty good prior to starting the hunt for Forrest Fenn’s treasure but I’m amazed at the amount of its expansion given my serious study of 166 words..



      • Thanks Flutterby, do you think that “tarry scant with marvel gaze, just take the chest and go in peace” is instructing the searcher to not linger too long? I tend to think several lines have double meanings. I think tarry scant could mean two things and quickly could mean too things. Either way, there are two references after the blaze possibly indicating the searcher should get the chest and ‘get out of Dodge’…quickly. But maybe not…I have not drawn a conclusion here…just something that I think is possible and might tell the searcher something about the type of location the chest is hidden, if true. Dave

        • (This has been suggested already, but) one should consider that the return hike, carrying the goodies, is likely to be quite
          time-consuming one. A hiker would not want to be hiking “in the shade” after the sun “sets” below a westerly mountain,
          hill, or bluff, even if it seems kinda early in the day. The
          ground is could be potentially dangerous to walk on, even if
          not particularly “steep”. Ya don’t wanna twist an ankle. And if
          it takes a long time to “uncover” or “unbury” the TC, then initiating the return hike becomes even more urgent. All IMO.

          • Thanks tigherfocus….could be. I guess it would depend on how much searching that solver that ‘went with confidence’ would have to do after finding the blaze. I have always thought the person with the correct solve would go right to it and thus not need that much time…but after all of these years I am not so sure about that now. Dave

          • Dave, the blaze can be “found” online. While hiking, a searcher does not have to go all the way to it (i.e, close enough to touch it) in order to see it and be PRECISELY where (s)he is supposed to be at that time. The poem gives further instructions. All IMO.

        • Dave,
          You asked, “do you think that ‘tarry scant with marvel gaze, just take the chest and go in peace’ is instructing the searcher to not linger too long?”

          In my opinion it does not mean that. That is not what I think the poem says, although I’m not holding the TC so we’ll have to see. I think these lines are descriptive of locations on the map.

          I agree that several lines have double meanings.


      • Flutterby– When you said ..look quickly down…might mean to take a peek….couldn’t you also describe that action as a glance? Now glance is interesting because that is another name for galena, which is lead ore.

        In my research of where I believe the blaze to be….the Indians were gathering the galena for paint and the Spanish for bullets. By the way, if you are looking for the blaze, you have a better chance finding the old iron rims that lined the wooden wagon wheels of a ore wagon that didn’t quite survive the heavy loads. Recognize those relics and the blaze is very close. All IMO
        Best regards ;

        Canasta Billy
        (P.S. f you didn’t hide it in an ore basket (canasta), did you? I saw one and didn’t even check. Put that on my to do list in 3 months, times a ticking….)

        • Interesting how “glance” could also mean a sudden flash of light, which we’ve read about “Lightning” in TTOTC book, as well as, a scrapbook, if I recall correctly.

          • To continue with glance, we also have twinkle, wink, and blink, which we’ve read, too.

        • Sherif Billy,
          Thank you for the information on glance and galena. I did not know about that. Although, I have considered the word glance. In TTOTC, there is a place where Miss Ford gives FF a “sideways look” that I would consider a glance.

          So now I’m looking up galena and see some interesting info about it. Wikepedia says, “Also known as “potter’s ore”, galena is used in a green glaze applied to pottery” So now I need to locate that scrapbook page about the pottery gone wrong, the one with the nails sticking out of it and so on. Does anyone recall which scrapbook that was?

          Here is something else about Galena. “Galena is a semiconductor with a small band gap of about 0.4 eV, which found use in early wireless communication systems. It was used as the crystal in crystal radio receivers, in which it was used as a point-contact diode capable of rectifying alternating current to detect the radio signals. The galena crystal was used with a sharp wire, known as a “cat’s whisker” in contact with it”

          That definition of Galena reminds me of Scrapbook #46. “As I approached the check out counter, a shapely twentyish-looking woman raced past me. Her pushcart was loaded with six-packs of Corona beer. She wore tight shorts and slosh sandals, but it was her large hair – garish red and full of curlers – that struck me. The curlers were mostly white but a few were brown, and her piercings and tattoos introduced me to a world I had rarely seen before. I told myself I had to get out more. As I slowed my cart to prevent a wreck, Mz Fashion Maven gave me a grin that said my 83 years were no match for her youth and exuberance.
          The checkout line moved slowly and the delay gave me time to observe Mz Maven, who seemed to be annoyed by my preoccupation with the objects that decorated her hair. As we stood there looking at each other, I politely asked, pointing to her hair, “How many stations can you get on that thing?”

          So now I’m thinking and reading about Galena

          • WARNING you are entering a rabbit hole.

            This rabbit hole warning has been brought to you by Lugnutz. You’ve tried the best, now try Lugnutz! Ask for it by name.

    • Hello Dave from KC …

      In addition to the conclusions you state above and Flutterby’s response, I’ll add another. It’s possible that “terry scant”, which apparently means to not dawdle, implies that there is something else of significance where the chest is at, in addition to the chest. In other words, marvel at what surrounds the chest, but quickly remove the chest and leave, so as not to be tempted to disturb the surroundings.

      Ken (in Texas)

      • Hi Ken in TX, could be…yea, maybe ff just wants to searcher to take the chest and go… to leave his sacred final resting place as pristine as possible. Good luck with that though…that spot will become a tourist location 🙂

        • (Interesting choice of words, Dave.. If it’s not announced where that spot is, it could remain a (sorta) secret for a long time. I
          say “sorta” secret, because 2 people might then know. IMO.

    • Dave- the searcher needs to be fast because there are other people at the museum wanting too see what you are looking at so you must get out of their way because they paid admission to get in just like you did.

      keep the line movin folks come on lets go.

      I think.

    • Ya Dave,
      I was asking the same question the other day – what’s the big rush or hurry?
      Is it possible Forrest would know our state of mind thinking process at this point of the poem & with BOTG seeing the blaze in this area would make you speed things up or maybe “quickly” means “closely”.
      I’ve always asked the question why you can’t look slowly down?

      Tarry a few may be a hint to get outa there but I would like to hang out for a while in the place where the treasure was found even if I’m wet & cold.

      • Hi Jake,
        Thanks for your idea…ah yes, I think being wet and cold would be another good reason to be moving quickly and also a good reason to tarry scant. Having to get into the creek could also explain bold, brave and no place for the meek. So with this, we now have two ideas for why the searcher might need to act quickly and not linger:
        1) People in the area that might notice the searcher
        2) The searcher had to wade up the very cold creek in order to find the blaze and treasure
        I think #2 above is more likely…but who knows? Could be both or neither. Dave

        • In late summer, the local water one would be exposed to is likely
          to be quite shallow. And above-the-ankle hiking boots, for
          stability, are recommended. Preferably waterproof or similar.
          All IMO.

      • Jake- because if you look slowly down too many other things come into view as you drop your head. look quickly all the way to your feet. don’t let anything else other than your feet that your eyes see confuse you. direct your gaze quickly down. put that chin on your chest rapidly.

        your quest to cease. stop looking once you find your feet at the place the poem sent you. there is the treasure at your feet. (not the bronze box.)

        I think.

        • dodo

          You just said: “dodo bird on July 18, 2018 at 8:19 am said:

          Jake- no, I’m saying everyone here should concentrate on the chest mentioned in the poem. this chest is not the treasure. this chest is not the bronze box. this chest is not indulgence.
          I’m saying there is triple entendre at work. your first search will lead to the treasure which is the GREAT OUTDOORS”

          Now you say, ” there is the treasure at your feet.” and you say,”Jake- because if you look slowly down too many other things come into view as you drop your head. look quickly all the way to your feet. don’t let anything else other than your feet that your eyes see confuse you. direct your gaze quickly down. put that chin on your chest rapidly.”

          How can you see”The GREAT OUTDOORS” when you look quickly down, and not be distracted by – what? – THE GREAT OUTDOORS”

          You sure like to confuse us dodo – and you are doing a GREAT job – JDA

          • JDA- you are mixing my comments to cause confusion.
            I was speaking to Jake who was speaking to Dave.
            “whats the hurry?” was the topic.

            there IS treasure (the great outdoors) at your feet. wherever the poem leads you to search.
            and when you finally realize this fact that the treasure is wherever the poem leads you, as you are looking for the blaze, scanning the area with your eyes, look all the way down to your feet and EUREKA! there is the blaze, my own feet. my feet marked the trail (footprints) to the treasure(great outdoors). look quickly down as to avoid seeing marks on rocks, tree marks, wood piles, etc. etc. etc. all these things that searchers normally associate with a trailmarker or blaze. forget all that its your own feet.

            the second point of discussion was why “take the chest and go?” I explained that in my museum comment above. is related to tarry scant.
            hope this helps you JDA (not really) lol

      • Jake,
        I do not believe we are going to be wet or cold when/where we find the TC. I think the correct definition of effort=a force exerted by a machine or in a process. I think the correct definition of worth=”to come to be,” Still working out the correct meaning of cold. There are several that work well and they don’t involve the searcher being cold. They involve a process that at one time involved cold, which produced the current condition. All IMO

        • Flutterby;

          JMO but I think that if you understand “The answers I already know, I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak” you will then understand about the treasure being wet and “worth the cold.”

          I could be wrong, but I think that these are hints that describe the conditions under which Indulgence will be found – JMO – JDA

          • I agree with you JDA that those are hints, but not defining conditions. I believe every hint in the poem is a reference to…you can probably guess it…location, location, location

          • JDA,
            I agree that “I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak” is connected to the word cold in the poem. One meaning of tired is to have repeated something over and over.

            Try these definitions
            “your effort will be worth the cold”
            your= yore (old or ancient)
            effort=a force exerted by a machine or in a process.
            will= to turn into
            be= exist, come to be, become, happen
            worth=”to come to be,”
            cold=possibly “coaled”

            I’ve done it tired IMO means that this process of nature has been done over and over again.

            Somewhere in a recent statement from FF, he was discussing how to solve the poem. He said, “its a process”. I don’t think he was talking only about the process of solving. I think he was pointing out that the poem contains a instructions on natural process that we should be looking at. I don’t seem to have that quote handy. I’m sure someone has it.

            I could be wrong, but I think that these are hints that describe the conditions under which Indulgence will be found – JMO – JDA

          • flutterby, are we now expected to believe that “I” in the poem refers to “nature” or “the earth” or something like that, instead of FF?

          • tight-
            Searchers have questioned who, or what, “I” is since the poem was released. Not everyone out here has assumed that “I” was Forrest..
            No more than all have assumed that “there” in the same line means the place where the chest is hidden.

          • Lordy, Lordy, you folks are running off the rails I’ll leave it at that.

        • Flutter

          That’s an easy one.

          Your effort will be worth the fold didn’t make as much sense.

  56. Ok, I am a relative new Rookie in this Chase…..
    I just noticed The Sherif Billly told Zap, that Mr. Fenn is following him (Zaphoid) and his progress.
    Is this the Truth?
    Does Mr. Sherif Billy have something to do with this blog?
    For some reason, I thought he and Mr. Dal controlled what goes on here.
    Maybe, I am confused.
    Do we all need to listen to Zap?
    Is this truth or fiction?
    Dal, can you clarify the players here and who is speaking for Mr. Fenn?
    Thank you
    Clearly Clueless

      • Ok, I am listening to you, Sherif Billy.
        Please, tell me what you are saying…
        I am listening.
        I get the feeling you are important in this room.
        Clearly Clueless

    • Clearly-
      No one here speaks for Forrest. Forrest speaks for himself when he chooses..ie look at the first few comments at the top of this discussion page.

      I have no knowledge of what Sheriff Billy means..
      I have a hard enough time understanding my own comments…

  57. Another short update…

    I drove for another 11 hours today and finished up my 1400+ mile journey to where I’m staying and I only got lost twice. The first time I got lost was 10 miles from my house (stupid GPS!!). My search area is still about an hour or more away. Hopefully I’ll be able to get out there tomorrow.

    Observations from the road…

    – some states need to review the quality of their interstates! I think I jarred a couple of fillings loose!

    – who cut all the trees down in the middle of the country? Someone should be in trouble for that!!

    – some of the best roads in the country are not found by GPS!!

    – all those hours by myself with only a radio for entertainment has not improved my singing voice at all!!

    Take care! Be safe out there!


    • I am excited for you Tim ! BOTG is one of the most rewarding aspects of this treasure hunt.

    • Well…there’s a guy who’s riding his bike across the same terrain. Count your blessings. I suppose that he’ll lobby for the handle ‘titanium butt’ when he’s done; that thing he’ll be sitting on can’t be any more comfortable than even the worst truck seat over that length of time.

      I love backpacking and in my favorite wilderness areas am pleased if I make 10 mi in a day. Driving to the trail head and driving back home on interstate (apparently in better condition than those on your route), I’m not lost that I cover the same distance in no more than 10 minutes. A 60 mi hike will take me a week. One hour on the interstate.

    • TimM,

      I just wish the tall grasses which could hide herds of 1000 buffalo were still there… not to mention the buffalo!

      Good hunting,


  58. Seeker…I am lost in how to respond to your post as there are quite a few inconsistencies. Let’s just start with your original comments to Oz10… This part in particular where you said ;

    *One possible conclusion is…where does it all start at?- how far do we need to go[hiking] to get to the first clue and all the others?”

    Previous to that you said;

    “So here’s the Whatif thought; are the starting of the clues near this place fenn parked-?- or did he walk(for example) 1 hour to the “location” to begin what is needed to be done at the location?”

    If the poem is a map (Fenn has said it is) that will show you where to go if you follow its directions (Fenn has said those exact words) … and we have to decipher nine clues to use it as such…starting with the *first clue*(Fenn has said that is where to begin)… what tells the searcher where to park, and then leads them *precisely* to the *first clue*? Are you saying there are other directions that need to be discovered first? That seems like a big stretch unless you are saying that the process of discovering/learning where the first clue is includes all of that info.

    • I don’t understand why it would be a big stretch if there is other information provided to help with identifying the first clue…other directions that need to be discovered first.

      Aren’t hints in play here and they can easily explain for this?

    • The third clue is the kicker… the first two clues maybe getting searchers to the general location but no starting point without that 3rd clue. Is it the home of Brown? Has it not been understood? Highly possible. Even those who are certain of their WWH and swear that there is no other like it, have not nailed down hoB or have multiple choices to choose from. How could there be only WWH and many hoB logical I don’t know. What do you think ken?

      • Hi Oz10: I think the first clue all by itself gets you to a very precise starting point. I don’t believe “home of Brown” is a complete clue; people have probably correctly figured out what home of Brown is. Where I think they fail is in interpreting what is meant by putting in below it, and as a result their solution goes off the tracks at that point and they “leave the poem.”

        • Hi Zap, what do you mean is not a ‘complete’ clue? Keeping in mind what ff said about ‘if I told you what that was’….

          • Oz10: the clue is vague. The poem doesn’t tell you how far below home of Brown — just below. Probably most searchers unconsciously (though not unreasonably) insert the word “directly” or “immediately” before the word below, but that’s an assumption … and not necessarily a correct one. And “below” might not mean in elevation; it could mean “south of.” So you see, figuring out the identity of home of Brown may be only half the battle.

        • Oz10: just that the whole clue is “Put in below the home of Brown,” not just “home of Brown”. I think people who figure out the identity of home of Brown fail to “put in” at the correct spot.

          • Zap, how big of a place is it then? And how many diff ways of ‘put in’ there is? I just thought that by this point we were working with a place more specific than WWH.

          • Hi Lugnutz: generally I’m resistant to answering questions that sound like the lead-in to a game of “20 Questions,” so let me terminate your line of inquiry by saying: NO, my hoB is not Red Lodge.

          • Zap

            Sure, Red Lodge is not your home of Brown.

            Do you understand why I might make an association between the two of them? And maybe even, do you recognize the possibility for folks who favor the Golden Bug as source material?

            I would say it’s not rocket science but I believe there is percentage on you being one!

          • Zaphod,
            I don’t think “put in” is talking about the searcher putting in. I think it is talking about a put= deposit in below HOB, or in other words, something is deposited below HOB. The next line tells us what that is deposited. “from there its no place for the meek” I believe that line means “know place for the tuff (tough is opposite of meek)

          • Hi Lug,

            “Sure, Red Lodge is not your home of Brown.”

            Then why ask?

            “Do you understand why I might make an association between the two of them?”

            No, not really. Lodge=Home, sure; Red=Brown, no. Stretching way too much.

            “And maybe even, do you recognize the possibility for folks who favor the Golden Bug as source material?”

            I resist expanding Forrest’s Chase to include anything having to do with Edgar Allen Poe.

          • Flutterby: I think you are wrong on all counts. But that’s the beauty of the Chase: each solves it differently.

        • Zap, got it, simple… I thought we needed to consult jda’s dictionary of obscure definitions…lol

          So is not so much that they didn’t understand it, but that they did not try or adjusted farther south or below in elevation. What a lazy bunch…

        • JDA,
          I agree that “I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak” is connected to the word cold in the poem. One meaning of tired is to have repeated something over and over.

          Try these definitions
          “your effort will be worth the cold”
          your= yore (old or ancient)
          effort=a force exerted by a machine or in a process.
          will= to turn into
          be= exist, come to be, become, happen
          worth=”to come to be,”
          cold=possibly “coaled”

          I’ve done it tired IMO means that this process of nature has been done over and over again.

          Somewhere in a recent statement from FF, he was discussing how to solve the poem. He said, “its a process”. I don’t think he was talking only about the process of solving. I think he was pointing out that the poem contains a instructions on natural process that we should be looking at. I don’t seem to have that quote handy. I’m sure someone has it.

          All IMO

      • Oz10….I agree that the third clue is and has been the kicker. Folks leave the poem at that point…right? How can they leave the poem if they are not headed somewhere to begin with. Folks think the hints are going to *give them* the clues for Pete’s sake! The hints are very subtle and a searcher has to recognize them first…and then have to decide which ones to use. This does not sound very definitive to me.
        I’m going back to saying that solving the **RIDDLE** will give the eventual finder the answers.
        Also…”…but before you go, look at the poem as if it were a map, because it is, and like any other map, it will show you where to go if you *follow* its directions.” Definition of “directions”(like on a map);
        Instructions that tell you how to go to a place. How many *places* is a good question.

        I would also say that Fenn’s answer …*If I told you that…* is a pretty good tell.

        • Ken, I think the hints are the riddle and hence the most definitive thing to find in the Chase.

          Do you think there’s a hint in the poem?

          • If I’m certain of something regarding this poem is that it has exactly 9 clues and multiple hints as well. Does it have at least one hint per clue? Not necessarily.

          • I don’t agree, Ken. One can easily say that the clues are very subtle also. Definition of subtle: (especially of a change or distinction) so delicate or precise as to be difficult to analyze or describe.

            No answer on if you think there’s a hint in the poem.

            Good luck!

          • fun…*one* could say that…but Fenn did not say the clues are very subtle. he says we need to figure them out…decipher them. and don’t say good luck ! in this conversation as it seems sarcastic rather than in good will.

          • Ken, you skipped all the other elements of subtle too…I’m ok with that.

            Just because f didn’t say the clues aren’t subtle doesn’t mean they aren’t. Are they obvious?

            I can say good luck anytime I want.

          • fundamental…it’s all good in my book. Everyone sees it different and that is what makes it fun for me. Stay well and good luck to you too.

          • in my opinion we are asking the wrong question, it is not how many hints are in the poem, the question we should ask Mr Fenn is: “are the hints also in consecutive order”.

            I would be curious if ff would answer such a question, and more importantly, what that answer is.

          • Hi writis:

            “… the question we should ask Mr Fenn is: “are the hints also in consecutive order”.”

            He has already answered that they are not:

            Mysterious Writings (12/11/2014): “You say the clues in the poem are to be followed in consecutive order. You have also said the book holds subtle hints. Are these ‘subtle hints’ in consecutive order (in relation to how they help with clues in the poem) too? ~ Thank you, joseph.”

            “That’s right Joseph, you should start with the first clue and follow the others consecutively to the treasure. Hints in the book are not that organized. f”

        • no, not the hints in the book; as I point out, the hints in the poem, someone needs to ask if the “hints are also in consecutive order” in the poem.

          • Hi writis: ahh, point taken. Since I don’t believe Forrest has ever revealed whether there are hints in the poem, I have my doubts he would answer. But I think we can exercise a bit of logic here and conclude there is at least one hint in the poem, because otherwise one sixth of the poem (the first stanza) would be useless for finding the treasure. And that wouldn’t jive with his answer to Phil in 2014: “There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure, Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them.” There are 25 words in the first stanza — by any reasonable definition, that’s more than “a few.”

            But if Forrest would include one hint, why not more? Whether right or wrong, a majority of searchers believe all 9 clues are in stanzas 2-4. If that’s accurate, then by extension of the argument for the first stanza, there would have to be hints in the 5th and 6th stanzas as well.

            So, having established that it is likely there are multiple hints, your question is now in play: are the hints in order? And by that, I assume you mean that if each hint is specifically tied to an individual clue, are the hints in clue-order? If so, they certainly don’t appear immediately near the clues they address (assuming there are no clues in the 5th and 6th stanzas). And what about this scenario: what if multiple hints apply to the same clue? My advice is to keep an open mind; the hint organization, if any, will reveal itself as you solve the clues.

    • Ken ~’Are you saying there are other directions that need to be discovered first?’
      In a word, yes. But I’m not sure Directions is the right word.
      I’m saying we need to know where the location of fenn’s place is, first and foremost. At this location we will find the clues to follow.

      ~“I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” f

      I’m suggesting that the “path” are the 9 clues.. which will not be direct unless the “location of the clues” are known of, first.

      So, how else to you find a single reference to the many first clues possibilities without the location? It would be a dart toss and a process of eliminating 100’s of possible wwwh / first clue.
      Yet, some have and others seem to be finding the correct location, however, they didn’t seem to know they are there… even when the indicate the correct two clues, even with the other clues being passed by and some very close to the chest’s hide spot… they didn’t seem to have any real connection to the place or even knew they had the correct first clues.

      What is it that we need to know about the location to be certain?
      Is this were knowledge of geography might help?
      Is there something about the location that nobody as mentioned … the important possibility-?- for winning the prize.

      What is your representation of what the “location” means?
      Is it wwwh? – the first clue
      Is it the hidey spot? – a 10″ sq piece of land
      Is the location a state?
      A region?
      an entire park?
      Is it fenn’s special location that holds all the clues he created from the location [ from his memories of it ] ? where he wanted to hide his trove.

      • Mine is the answer to the riddle….represented by the deciphered nine clues…and it is not all in one small location. I believe the path represents a series of locations ending at the treasure chest. You believe one thing…I have come to see another. “…but most of the places….” Sure…that could mean only two, but I do not think so.

        Wwwh is difficult enough without requiring more of it…like a whole itinerary to get there. The hints are not “answers” to any of the clues.
        The certainty evolves from the answered riddle and the effort to marry it to a map.

        • Ken,
          The problem with a riddle is; it normally only has one answer… at least I can think of any type of riddle ‘poetic or otherwise’ that as more than one answer, regardless of how many pieces of information / clues it contains.

          If you take [ for example ] the description of a tiger, how many clues can you come up with describing a tiger? Many I presume. But you always have a single answer to the clues in a riddle. In this case we have two options to look at; 1. All the clues are of a single location… 2. a riddle is in a form of a question or inquiry… That seems to relate to stanza 5.

          Regardless of how you can perceive what the poem is, as a map, we still need a staring location for that map idea. My thought for the map idea does have a location and told of in the book… unfortunately… the map I’m referring to is a large location with many possible wwwh, even if we knew exactly what wwwh is… there are still many to be found.

          A riddle means nothing more than, a solving of a problem, a brain teaser, a puzzling mystery. But if the poem is a true riddle it should only have one answer… and should it be a map as well… than the answer to the riddle is the location.
          The question is, is it the location of fenn’s special place to kick off the search / find the clues, or is it only where the chest lays in wait as the location of it?

          Two things come to mind; is the question in the poem giving up the location where we find the clues… resulting in the correct wwwh out of the many possibles?
          Or does the book give up the location of the clues hence the book will help with the clues, but the book will not lead you to the chest, and, all the information to “FIND” the chest is in the poem, including where the clues are at?

          fenn did give us the warning comment for no apparent reason. He told us we needed certainty of the location for the path to be direct. You can see it how ya like… I see we need the location of the clues first and foremost to even start to understand what a clue reference is.

      • It seems more and more clear to me that not enough searchers are
        showing the poem to a child (say 10-14 years old) . . . or, better yet,
        several children.

        It’s like looking up “halt” in a dictionary. These are basic but important things that could help, folks. I used a dictionary to look up quite a few of the poem’s words that I thought I already knew pretty *well*. I suggest that no searcher should let pride get in the way of progress. And for what it’s worth, you don’t have to let anybody know that you looked up “warm” or “waters” or “halt” or other common words. The end of summer is drawing nigh. All IMO.

        • tighterfocus,
          My grandchildren between ages of 8-12 say that warm waters halt when they freeze. I asked each independently so they would not be influenced by each other. The six year old specified that the Magic Schoolbus show told her that water halts when it freezes.

          • I agree with the kids. Warm Waters is any inhabitable waters which I define as not frozen or mineralized for safe human entry…

          • Flutter and Tighter –

            I will take it a step further. Ice IS warm water becasue it HAS been warm water and it SHALL be warm water again.


  59. I tend to agree with you Seeker on your statememt: “That yells to me that there is work in the field to be done.” If I were creating a poem and hiding a treasure that I wanted to be difficult but not impossible, then I would use locations found on a map as little as possible. It would make sense, IMO, for FF to allow the clues to point to only one or two locations on a map as it would cause more BOTG searches than staring at a PC. This was a goal of his after all.

    • or, you use the places on the map but refer to them differently ala The Golden Bug.

      For example you refer to Old Faithful as Young Feller.

      • I never referred to Old Faithful as Young Feller. But I think Dizzy Dean
        is a tiny hint.

  60. Anyone know if there is a link to follow the searcher/group that headed out on bicycles? Looking for any updates on their travels? Figure they should be across the Mississippi by now!

    • Kieran is about to embark on a great adventure. He’s going to be posting updates on his Instagram (@k.w.shields) as he travels and he’d love it if other treasure hunters could follow him and maybe even meet some of them along the way.

    • Hi Lug: to be honest, it’s the first I’ve seen it, so it’s certainly with fresh eyes. As far as the Chase goes, I wouldn’t be looking for something to jump out at me since Forrest didn’t write the story. If you’re asking me to force some connection to the Chase, the story starts similarly to SB 107:

      “Don’t you just hate that? Look at it!” (SB 107)


      “Oh yeah… Just look at it”

      Or perhaps you’re expecting me to pipe up about the “31st TFW” (TOO FAR to WALK) in the caption of the F-100D.

      I don’t have my copy of TFTW at hand, so I can’t confirm if the 198 F-100s lost to combat that are mentioned in this article jive with the number Forrest put in his long page of downed aircraft. I *do* know that if you add up the number of lost aircraft on Forrest’s page it doesn’t add up to the total he quoted — it’s off by one.

      That’s all I got.

      • My book’s at home — that’s certainly Fenn on the right, as indicated in the story. Don’t recall if the guy in the center is Lt. Col. Carlson, but Carlson is pictured in TTOTC.

      • Lug & OS2: I have confirmed the guy in the center is Lt. Col. Carlson. The guy on the left (named in the article, but not identified in the photo) appears to be Lt. James Jamerson.

    • I like that this guy (the author) says that Forrest ” hid a MULTI. MILLION. DOLLAR. FORTUNE. in New Mexico. ” That’s cute.

  61. Aardvarkbark mentioned above Fenn saying “I have a way of knowing whether is has been found or not.”, and I agree it is most intriguing, but there was little discussion. I know this has been discussed elsewhere and perhaps I missed significant contributions, but……
    -we’ve ruled out (IIRC) that the chest contains a treasure chit you must “cash in”–Forrest plainly states it is where the poem leads
    -probably not requiring you to have some sort of human interaction, in order to retrieve, since that implies someone knows where it is
    -we know it’s not locked, so you don’t need to acquire a key

    So it’s there, you can almost certainly go there without human interaction, and it’s not some trick requiring you to find something else. I guess it could be in a separate locked unmovable cage, but, well…come on. It borders on assumption, but I think you can walk away with it unfettered.

    For me, this means there is something in the chest that absolutely compels the finder to contact Forrest in some manner. So FORREST, at last, would know. It would be interesting to ask Forrest the question: “If the treasure were found in 20 years, and you had not survived to well over 100, would the means of you “knowing” it had been found still “work”?, just not for notifying you personally?”

    I can only think of one solution to this. The treasure _as_described_ is all in the chest, and if you find it you can carry it away. There is something else in there that Forrest is certain will start a chain of events that result in him knowing someone has seen the inside of the chest.

    IMO it HAS to be the “something else” FF has mentioned he put in the chest. And it is compelling. Forrest is positive the finder will take action upon finding that unknown thing, and that that action will alert him.
    …..the finder sees the inside of the chest and takes action.

    • I’ll be eager to learn what the ‘device’ is that allows for this. But since I clearly haven’t solved any of the nine clues, this is in my ‘low priority’ stack of things to do this week, and until I do.

      I was thinking though — wouldn’t it make your neck hairs stand up if you HAD found the chest, gotten it to your car without anyone noticing, then, as you are driving away….your cell phone rings….and it’s Forrest calling to congratulate you….

      Then you notice a crew filming Rod Serling on the side of the road and as you drive by the camera pans to you….

      • I love it Aardv.

        What truly intrigues me is that I think The Finder –IS– the device.

        What on earth could be in that chest that would compel you to reveal yourself to Forrest or some agent of his? And Forrest seems certain of it.

        I almost want that more than the chest.

        p.s. any device-device that would independently, reliably, and certainly report discovery, would have to be fashioned by a sophisticated craftsmanperson who would likely recall making this unique mission-specific device. Plus, he could outsmart the thing he built, thus removing FF’s certainty.


  62. here is some of my take on the poem – wwwh and hob are both in the same lower elevation far apart but you could say the same elevation – in the poem you go only so far north to wwwh – then you take it in the canyon down to Hob- where you start to go north again all the way to the last clue- where your efforts will worth the cold and if you are brave and in the wood youll get the title to the gold imo

  63. Hey Everyone,

    Given the large amount of conversation and debate that recently went on concerning the importance of punctuation in the poem; I thought everyone would enjoy listening to a recently released podcast by Malcolm Gladwell’s Revisionist History.

    Its an outstanding podcast series, now on the 3 rd season.

    The first episode of this new season is called: Divide and Conquer
    Its about the constitution and centers around punctuation and specifically the SEMICOLON!

    Just wonderful storytelling and like the chase – educational…

  64. well gcg im glad you went to school and learned about punctuation and semicolon – some of us didn’t finish school – and some of us just don’t care about any of that stuff – im to young to worry and to old to care good luck and have a nice day

  65. Above, poster Aaron wrote: “I tend to agree with you Seeker … there is work in the field to be done … I would use locations found on a map as little as possible. It would make sense, IMO, for FF to allow the clues to point to only one or two locations on a map as it would cause more BOTG searches …”
    Aaron … Seeker has been preaching this parochial philosophy for the last 500 years. And I don’t buy it for a second. My opinion on why I disagree follows.

    There are 9 clues. You, and Seeker, assume that no more than 1 or 2 clues point to a location on a map. Once searcher has pinpointed those 1 or 2 locations, then the rest of the clues must be deciphered BOTG.

    Totally, totally disagree with this. FF has said if you are hiking long distances you are hiking too far. So, if the chest is fairly close to where he parked his car, why would searcher need 7 or 8 clues for BOTG? I can envision 2, maybe 3, clues from where searcher parks car, but 7 or 8? Not a chance.

    For that matter, if the chest is not very far from the car, searcher can scour the entire area with no additional clues beyond the 1 or 2 that brought him or her to that particular parking spot. Just walk back and forth covering the required small area; no need for any additional clues beyond the 1 or 2 that brought you to that area.

    No, the reason you need as many as 9 clues, in my opinion, is because the first several give you driving directions, pointing to LOCATIONS ON A MAP. And the route is not direct. The last several clues are hiking clues, used once searcher has successfully found the place to park their car. And that’s not all …

    FF knows that there will be searchers coming to the Rocky Mountains from far away … Florida, Australia, England. Why in the world would a searcher from one of these faraway places risk all the money required for a trip to the Rockies, knowing only 1 or 2 locations on a map? Such a searcher would be a fool to risk big money spent on just 1 or 2 map location clues.

    In contrast, having 4 or 5 or 6 clues that point to locations on a map would give these faraway searchers more confidence that they were be in the right area, thus justifying a big money trip. This approach would then allow these searchers an additional 3 or 4 or more clues for BOTG, once they have arrived at the parking spot.

    Aaron … Seeker and many other posters here continue to use isolated verbal comments that Forrest Fenn has made, to justify their predetermined conclusions. I would politely suggest that ALL of Forrest Fenns’s verbal comments need to be understood in context; otherwise, searcher falls into the trap of coming to conclusions that contradict one or more verbal comments FF has made, comments that searcher has forgotten about. My message here shows you one such contradiction.

    Ken (in Texas)

    • Ken…one of the qualifiers for what you are saying is Fenn’s comment “…most of the places…”. If there are only two locations…that comment makes ZERO sense.
      I agree that ALL of the comments need to make sense…if a searcher is using them.

    • Ken inTX ~’Aaron … Seeker and many other posters here continue to use isolated verbal comments that Forrest Fenn has made, to justify their predetermined conclusions. I would politely suggest that ALL of Forrest Fenns’s verbal comments need to be understood in context; ‘

      That is exactly what I have been saying all along… ‘All’ of fenn verbal comments need to be considered as a check and balance to have them all be truthful to each other, even/especially when they seem to be in conflict.

      It seem to me you misunderstood some of my posting [ that ok, I sometime don’t make it spic and span clear ] I have never claimed the clues to be near the vehicle or that area fenn parked at… In fact… I have stated just the opposite.
      The clues could be up to a mile away. Only that the clues are closer together than most of the other’s posting have them, being miles apart from each other.

      The other part you seem to misunderstand is; a clue’s place as a reference. I have never said only 1 or 2 or 3 places are clues… I have implied that only a couple/few places might be needed to be at physically, and those physical places that don’t need to be at, are description of places viewed for a vantage point.

      You may say, we need to travel into a place [ canyon for example ] While a canyon is a place… I say we don’t need to go into it. And, fenn has seemingly implied, an 80yr old is not going down and up and down again a canyon… as well as other comments about climb and not going where an 80 yr old can’t with a heavy backpack etc.

      IF I’m not mistaken Ken [TX]… you have WWH many miles from other clues or at least many miles from the first clue [wwh] to the hide. Why would fenn need to follow those ‘many miles’ of clues ‘when he went to hide the chest’?

      And please, I understand some of my post might be a bit confusing… sometimes, I think at this point in time, most could understand my thoughts and idea without adding every little detail… But if you’re curious or don’t see how something could unfold in my explanations… just ask for clarification. [ no need to fluffinutter either… I’m a big boy and can take criticisms. ]

      I’m not asking for you or anyone to agree with them [my ideas and theories]… in fact… I have asked folks to chew them up and shred them apart. It’s a good little exercise to have others who are involved with the challenge to give me reasoning for something that can’t possibly work. But if all you have to add is; I disagree, it doesn’t match my solve… well, that doesn’t say much.

    • Ken in Texas, I prefer to keep an open mind on methodology to solve this. Nobody yet knows how many clues we need to find on site. You say why would people travel from all over knowing only two clues. I say nobody has found it with their idea of two clues or 9 clues. I believe either methodology is possible and an open mind along with imagination is needed for the solve.

        • Thanks Ken, I have no plans currently until I have better ideas. I like my solution ideas but there is something missing from them.

  66. I totally agree with you Ken – I couldn’t of said it any clearer then that —-frank

  67. I was trying to recall the first part of Fenn’s comment that I had posted to no avail. I TS’ed it and found this interesting and something I had not paid attention to.
    “Well, there are nine clues in my poem, and one is in my book. And I’m not going to give any more clues. I’m…There are hints in my book that will help you with the clues, but…A clue will point you toward the treasure chest, and a hint will just help you with the clues, if you can understand that.”
    “…and one is in my book.” Huh…this quote is consistent with all others talking about TTOTC…is he saying there is one clue in TTOTC?

    • Ken;

      A very interesting quote – One I had never seen before.

      Yes, as I read it, Forrest is saying that there IS a clue in TTOTC. I do NOT think that this means that there are TEN clues though. I think that the one that is to be found in TToTC is one of the nine found in the poem – but I could be wrong.

      I had found something in TToTC that I consider vital to solving some of the nine clues. Is this “Something” a clue or a hint? I could easily consider it either. Just an observation. Thanks for sharing the quote Ken – JDA

      • No problem JDA. I had only written the last part of that quote down and was curious what the first part was…

        • Ken –

          I have used the “And I’m not going to give any more clues.” as my cutoff date for hints and clues in ATF. I only consider the possibility of hints/clues in scrapbooks that predate that statement.

          My take is a little different from JD’s. I think he means that the solve for one of the clues is in the book. This may or may not be a location.


          • lug…as JAKraven mentioned below…it is a transcript error.
            Fenn has said there are no *answers* to the clues in his book.

        • Lugnutz: you like to keep an open mind for new ideas, and yet you set arbitrary rules for yourself that aren’t even supported by what Fenn has said. Forrest has been saying “I don’t want to give any more clues” since March 2013 — sometimes it was in the context of just that interview (as in no more clues “today”); later he was more expansive/final than that — “I’m not going to release any more clues” (Richard Eeds, May 29, 2015). But he’s never said anything about dishing out hints. As far as I’m concerned, he has continued to do so right up to this year.

          And as an aside, I’m sure you’re aware he actually *did* reverse himself a little over a year ago and provided a few more clues — clues of exclusion, similar to saying the treasure wasn’t in Utah or Idaho. In the interest of safety, he said it wasn’t under water, it wasn’t near the Rio Grande River, it wasn’t under a manmade object, and there was no need to move large rocks or climb up or down a steep precipice.

          • Zap

            Hints or clues, the definition is the same to me.

            We just reserve clues as a matter of specificity so that we know when we are discussing the nine from the poem.

            I have mentioned this to you before. I don’t see clues inin the more recent ATF. I understand you do. As you point out, when he gives a new clue he tells us so, as in the case of

            Simplify if you can

          • Lug:

            “Hints or clues, the definition is the same to me.”

            Then you are foolish IMO. Forrest makes a clear distinction between the two.

            “We just reserve clues as a matter of specificity so that we know when we are discussing the nine from the poem.”

            Hints are utterly unlike clues. You can’t use a hint to solve a clue IMO. You can’t even recognize a hint that goes with a clue without first solving said clue. It’s a one-way trap door.

            You might be “suspicious” that something is a hint (e.g. the statement is a clear anomaly), but that will never help you solve the clue the aberration refers to.

          • Hi Zap,

            You wrote: Hints are utterly unlike clues. You can’t use a hint to solve a clue IMO. You can’t even recognize a hint that goes with a clue without first solving said clue. It’s a one-way trap door.

            Ok, that is an interesting idea but how to reconcile with his instructions regarding reading the book normally, then memorize the poem and finally going back to the book looking for subtle hints that WILL HELP SOLVE THE CLUES.

            Maybe those hints that do not help with the clues are not the ones we need. I would imagine that if I solved a clue incorrectly, anything that looks like a hint supporting that clue will also be incorrect. No?

          • Zap –

            I know you know this, which is why I am surprised by your answer.

            You are assigning a higher value to ATF then to the text of the book.

            I will stick with the book.

            ‘There are also subtle clues sprinkled in the stories…”


          • Zap and Lug

            I do believe the hints are just as important as the clues and are integral to identifying the correct place each clue references. The poem is all that is needed and provides enough hints and clues to find the chest but one is no more important than the other. I posted on Where Warm Waters Halt thread to help with my approach…check it out for some food for thought….

          • Lug

            :Subtle “CLUES” sprinkled in the stories??? I thought that the only clues were the 9 that are to be found in the poem – No wonder I have not found it (yet) – JDA

          • Zap,

            Then why does the poem say “hint” if they are not meant as a clue? Does this mean the clues are outside of the poem.

            I agree with Lug, that hint and clue are the same.

          • If all you focus on are 9 clues in the poem, you are suggesting that the rest of the poem is just fluff. Forrest said that there are few words that are not useful in finding the chest and discounting any is a big risk. I think you are discounting too much of the poem if all you use are the 9 clues…

          • CharlieM: *Forrest* is the one who makes a distinction between what a hint is and what a clue is, not me. “There are hints in my book that will help you with the clues, but … a clue will point you toward the treasure chest, and a hint will just help you with the clues, if you can understand that.”

        • Kk. Thanks for the update. Just the hints and abberations are in the book, good to know. It sure is a beautiful summer.

        • BTW to all concerned,
          I have run into several transcription errors, quotes that were altered and referenced to third party sites, and just plain miss-quotes on TarryScant. I usually call them to the attention of the author but not sure they ever get fixed.

          My advice is to go to the exact real source to double check what you read there (TS) before banking on it. It’s a good quick resource (TS) but there are some problems.

          • yes sir…there are some for sure. good example was the one I noticed today….thanks colo.

    • * * * * Ken asked about the ff quote – “Well, there are nine clues in my poem, and one is in my book. . . . ” * * * *

      It’s a dry hole, Ken, a mistranscription of the interview.

      In the interview broadcast (it’s just after about 24:24) he clearly says:

      “there are nine clues in my poem, and THE POEM is in my book.”


        • Well thanks for pointing out that interview though, Ken.

          Just before the “nine clues” bit, there’s a GREAT little nugget, sure to rustle up some shoe flies.

          (starting about 23:45):

          FF: It was heavy enough that I made two trips to hide it. I took the gold in one time, and then I took the treasure chest in the second time.

          EEDS: What kind of shoes, what kind of footprints were you leaving . . . what kind of boots did you have on?

          FF: Well if I told you that, YOU’D GO OUT AND FIND IT.

          That should at least take a little pressure off Ol’ Brown, eh? 😉

          Or maybe the two together point us to the Beatles’ “Old Brown Shoe?


          (smile-emojis all around, bartender)


          • The EEDs is one that I think back on once in a while…it is an interesting one, and I have had conflicting thoughts since it came out.
            Ah yes…The BEET ELS(British typing) !

          • Concern about what kind of shoes FF was wearing when
            he hid the TC looks like a rabbit hole to me. I’m not going
            to enter it. IMO.

          • * * * * tighterfocus wrote – “Concern about what kind of shoes FF was wearing when
            he hid the TC looks like a rabbit hole to me.” * * * *

            Yes, definitely. The point is that he used nearly the same if-I-told-you-that response as he did (in a different interview) to the question “Who’s Brown?”

            In both cases he’s joking with the interviewer.


          • No one is asking but here is my take.

            Fenn is saying that at the time of concealment he was wearing the same type of shoes that the interviewer was wearing in the present.

            Many chasers here like to comment that Fenn sidesteps the question when he answers. I don’t see it that way. He is answering the question and maybe we don’t understand.

            my 2 cents

  68. Update…

    I went out searching one spot yesterday for a few hours before bad weather ran me out of the mountains.

    This morning I tried to beat the weather to my main search area. The dirt road was really rough from all the rain. I got to a point where I couldn’t go any further and its started raining and hailing. I decided to play it safe and turn around.

    Since they are calling for thunderstorms for the rest of the week, I’ve decided to head home tomorrow…. empty handed.

    I still believe I have “the solve” but I’ve not decided on what to do next. I may call it a year, look for a partner, or humbly bow out.

    I’ll see how I feel about it after I get back home.

    Stay safe out there folks!


    • Well TimM, you gave it go & credit is due to those that put BOTG.
      I despise the trip back considering I don’t like my day job.
      I’ve always gone ahead in the hail & rain knowing I’m going to get wet anyway.
      I would recommend something for your back pain but tried everything & doesn’t work.

      One trip a year is all I make from here on out & is better than dealing with partners other than very close family that are not greedy & know where we will all end up some day.

      • Thanks Jake,

        Yeah, the trip home is definitely going to be worse than it was when I was coming out to search.

        I think if I continue the search I’ll limit it to once a year or so. I don’t think I’ll ever try to drive it again, though… I was trying to save some money by driving. Next time I’ll spend a little more money so I don’t have to suffer so much. I have 2 missing discs in my lower back and my only saving grace is pain medication. Not very conducive for long extended drives.

        At least I tried, so that has to be worth something.

        Take care… be safe!


  69. ok Ken help me out – is there two Kens on the blog – the one from tex and you- or are you from tex and not the other ken or both kens are you – who is the one in the pic —– frank

    • Hi frank … at one time there were as many as 4 Kens in this forum. Recent comments in this thread have been made by two Kens … “ken” (with the avatar of a guy in cowboy hat), and “Ken (in Texas)”, which is me. We are two different posters. I added the (in Texas) to my screen name to distinguish me from some other Ken.

      Ken (in Texas)

      • thanks for your reply Ken in texas – the two of you are ok – its just that I always thought it was one Ken but wasn’t sure – I live in hobbs S.E. corner of nm im about 6 miles from the texas state line if you ever pass by here stop by and visit —- frank

        • Ah yes, Hobbs, NM … not far from where I have done quite a bit of caving on BLM land. But from Hobbs it’s “too far to walk”.

          Ken (in Texas) 🙂

  70. Anybody hear about the MIT crew out looking for the treasure? They have an AI program they have run all info pertaining to the Chase that’s available on the internet, into it and are now out searching what this program has told them… interesting

    • Of more interest will be the algorithms selected, and the weighting appraoch. If they are using Fenn content, then they will need to have weighted with what they believe are significant topics of interest (the same way we do with our brains to seed the start) … unless they are just trying to spot hints for further research. This last bit is done with taxonomies of synonyms, homonyms, homophones, and manual tweaking for words like “sniffering”. Perhaps they are using WordNet. Any links to the work would be appreciated.

  71. Looks like Forrest Fenn night on Turner Classic Movies this evening…
    Fishin Feats followed by A River Runs Through It followed by Rough Riding followed by Spencer’s Mountain followed by Colorful Colorado followed by The Unsinkable Molly Brown.
    Guess I’ll make some popcorn and melt some butter..

  72. My copy of Robert Redford’s book came in yesterday. This has FF written all over it .

  73. Lugnutz,
    I agree that Galena is a rabbit hole. But, I couldn’t help noticing the connections that exist between that and the scrapbook pages mentioned. I am kinda enjoying learning new definitions to words that I did not know. Didn’t really know what a glance was. Sometimes I go off on a tangent looking at a word. But that doesn’t mean I think it has anything to do with the poem. Just fun learning new stuff!

    • Flutter

      I agree 100%.
      I have learned so much about a good number of topics. I have reread some old favorite stories.

      When I see those connections I go read about something new whether it benefits the chase endeavor or not.


  74. Zaphod,
    You said, “And what about this scenario: what if multiple hints apply to the same clue?” IMO that is the case for at least 3 clues in the poem. They are each stated at least twice in different ways. IMO

  75. In another thread, Flannery asked … “Ken, if I may inquire…Why is it that you don’t like the Yellowstone/Gallatin area? Just curious. I like to get some different logic and trains of thought going.”
    At the risk of this Odds & Ends chapter being closed and locked, thus disrupting conversation, I’ll go ahead and respond to your inquiry here. Hope this incarnation of Odds & Ends stays open for at least a few more days.

    There are several reasons >>>

    First, FF has said that TTOTC contains a few “subtle” hints. Yet, one chapter in TTOTC is labeled: “In Love With Yellowstone”. That title I would hardly call … “subtle”. My impression is that the Yellowstone/Gallatin area was “special” to FF’s dad, when Forrest was a boy. As such, FF would not claim any location within this area as his own, in my opinion, deferring that area instead to being special to his father. I think the chest is hidden somewhere that is special to Forrest himself, independent of his father.

    Second, FF has made it clear that the chest is not in a dangerous location. This special place can be accessed by small children and an 80 year old man. So I am bewildered by searchers who seemingly ignore his statement about risks, to search in areas that are known to contain Grizzly bears. The literature and videos are filled with searchers who are quite aware of this danger, studiously packing their “bear spray”, their “whistle” or clanging bells, their defense against a risk that FF implies does not exist. I guess if searchers are determined that the Yellowstone/Gallatin area is where the chest is, they’re not going to be deterred by anything FF has said about risks.

    Third, FF has said that the chest is not in very close proximity to a human trail. He has also indicated that he prefers to hike in areas where there are no trails. But he has also said that there are some places where hikers should stay on established trails, and YNP is one of them. So by extension, he is saying … don’t hike off-trail at Yellowstone, which in turn seems to eliminate the area at least within the boundaries of YNP.

    And fourth, even aside from the above reasons, there’s something I find quite unsatisfying here. FF has encouraged us to use our imaginations. But given the content of TTOTC (“In Love With Yellowstone”), I find this area to be one of the most, if not the most, UNimaginative areas in the entire Rockies. To tell searchers to use their imaginations, and then turn around and hide the chest in such an obvious place, given the content of TTOTC, strikes me as a tad devious. I don’t think FF would deliberately play that kind of trick on searchers. I perceive him to be an honest man.

    For the Fenn treasure hunt, Yellowstone has become a cultural cliche. One doesn’t need to know anything about the geography of the Rocky Mountains to know about Yellowstone. Just follow the herd, so to speak; conclude that WWWH is Madison Junction, and you’re in with the hunt’s in-crowd, and you’re almost guaranteed to be on some YouTube video, or interviewed for some magazine article.

    For all these reasons, Flannery, I personally find discussions and theories about the Yellowstone/Gallatin area unimaginative, boring, and sometimes banal. Yet, there are a ton of searchers who will disagree with me. Which is fine. Each searcher has to chart his or her own course. And if the Yellowstone/Gallatin area really excites you, then by all means pursue it.

    Ken (in Texas) 🙂

    • Ken (in Texas),

      You stated what my thoughts of Yellowstone are now. Yes my first search, back in 2011, was in Yellowstone NP. I actually search three areas in Yellowstone on my first time in the Rockies, all are famous places in YNP for searchers throughout the blogs. After that trip my trail took me south, so to say, and over the years it has been defined down to the place of my solve area today. There a lot of research under my belt and it has taken me on many different avenues chasing “Ingulgence”. But finally putting the poem solves together without any influence of outside thoughts, but one, had helped considerably. I’m not saying that after those solve finds that hints and comments didn’t start popping out all over the area I have chosen. If I were to understand those hints first it might have made my chase a lot easier. There is that one hint, per say, to a theme I came across in the TTOTC book that helped in guiding me to the correct WWWH but it didn’t help to understand what really WWH was at first, after figuring that out my misguided info took me to prior locations that had WWH but the other clue solves did not fit entirely. So when I moved to this final location where I found most all clue solves in a little less then a two mile location, again all but the blaze. I believe that can be solved with another BOTG trip.

      Also I believe many searchers think all the clue solves are natural places that Mother Nature has to offer. In my solves this not all true, but those solves are relevant to her. Just food for thought.

      Thanks for your analysis of Yellowstone Ken, you hit my thoughts correctly.

      Good luck,

      • If you can’t determine what and where the blaze is before your search
        trip, you won’t find the blaze while BOTG searching for it. All IMO.

    • I agree with most of your other points (except for the grizzly bears – while I don’t think you should charge into heavy bear territory of course, I do think that wildlife is a danger everywhere, and not necessarily preventative of a search area) however, the one that really sealed it for me, a while back, was this quote/reason from FF:

      “Third, FF has said that the chest is not in very close proximity to a human trail. He has also indicated that he prefers to hike in areas where there are no trails. But he has also said that there are some places where hikers should stay on established trails, and YNP is one of them. So by extension, he is saying … don’t hike off-trail at Yellowstone, which in turn seems to eliminate the area at least within the boundaries of YNP.”

      This is well thought out, I like your explanation.

      Blue (Also Texas)

    • I’m terrified of Grizzly bears, but it’s an irrational fear and there is no danger when hiking in Grizz infested areas. How many people die of a Grizz attack each year? Less than one per year in the Rockies. More people were killed by crocs and gators and yet Florida is not considered dangerous for kids. Worldwide, lightning will kill more people in one year than have been killed by bears in the last 100 years. Yet we don’t stop kids from playing outside. Bears are really quite overrated as a threat, especially when you hike in a group, have bear spray, and make a little noise. At that point, your odds are far higher to die in a car accident on the way to the Rockies than to encounter a dangerous bear.

      BTW – I searched and couldn’t find a single instance in which a child has been killed by a bear. It must have happened, but I don’t see it in the records for all known bear fatalities. It terms of real danger, bears are probably last on the list of threats to your child.

      Funny enough, the most dangerous mammal to humans are cows and horses followed by dogs. The most dangerous thing is always the one you least suspect.

      • You said “no danger”. I think you should have said “little danger”. IMO.

      • I would consider environments that crocodiles settle in Florida as dangerous for kids. I don’t agree with the comparison.

    • Sound reasoning Ken. I’m in the “no Yellowstone” camp as well. I believe it’s the “tourist trap” of the chase. Most ppl out searching will take their family out there and comeback with a great story and pics regardless of whether or not they find indulgence so no risk in having a vaca and looking around while there. It’s also been heavily searched and continues to be as the herd grows. Most important to me is the poem doesn’t tell me to go there based on my understanding of the clues/hints but if someone was just joining the chase, I would suggest looking for a place off the beating path and you will likely increase your chances!

      • Only thing I might disagree with you on is the bear fear. There are tons of trails that are in bear country and day hikers take their kids on all the time. As Indy mentioned above, I believe the probability of something bad happening is very minimal and my solve is in bear country….

        • I agree with you, TH. My searches have taken me into prime grizzly habitats .my first trip, I was so nervous and scared that a GRiZ was around every bend that I couldn’t enjoy what was around me or even focus on the hunt. After a few more hikes and noticing the bear sign , I realized that yes, they are there, indeed, but don’t want any part of us either. You just have to respect that we are guests in their home and take all of the necessary precautions, and they will leave you alone. It was only after I lost all of my preconceived notions about snarling beasts with foaming jaws that I was able to embrace what f was trying to do. Appreciate the beauty of nature and be out there in the mountains and take it all in.
          Absolutely be bear aware if your search takes you to such a place, but the chances that you are going to be attacked are slim.

          • Haha, Your experience reminds me of my trip. I remember my first time out very well and I felt like I was on fear factor! Instead of being in a coffin filled with snakes I was in the woods surrounded by bears Lol. After my first trip, the rest have been much more enjoyable, but you have to respect the place and rules of engagement while “in there.” Best of luck on your searches V and I hope one of us secures the chest this year!

          • Thank you TH and the same to you! The absolute scariest thing I have encountered is the price of a pound of bacon in West Yellowstone! Lol
            Happy hunting!

  76. My thoughts on the chest not being in the Yellowstone area

    Does anyone know when Forrest stopped piloting his own airplane? Or when he gave up his pilots license? Was he still flying his own plane in 2010? I know he sold it at some point

    Some people have alluded that Forrest flew his plane to a city, rented a car, and drove to hide the treasure. This, more than likely, had to be done alone.

    Or could someone else have flown him?

    If he was too old to fly on his own, and didn’t want anyone else to know, couldn’t he have driven from his home in Santa Fe to the treasure location? Thereby making the location closer to Santa Fe?

    • I’ve pondered this myself Richard and drew a few conclusions that may or may not help.
      1. If Forrest flew, I believe it would have been commercially and he may have shipped the chest thru a courier and had arrangements of some sort made on the receiving end.
      2. He may have been able to drive it and just took his time up to the chest location as long as he still had his license.
      3. Either way, I’ve settled at this conclusion: I believe Forrest is the type of person that says if there’s a will, there’s a way and he was going to make it work no matter what….

    • Richard L,

      I tend to believe he did not fly at all, but drove from Santa Fe, NM. I also think he could have gone no more than 300 miles to hide the TC and back in order to be home late in the afternoon, IMO. The fewer the miles makes it easier to do so.

      • CharlieM;

        Why does he need to be home for supper? Forrest tells Peggy, “Hay Sweetie, I am going up to Cody for some business with the Museum – Some fund raising affair.” I will be back in a week.

        He casually drives to where-ever he secreted Indulgence. Fishes a bit, camps out or stays in an obscure little Motel a few miles away (Or even 100 or so miles away) Pays cash, and no record of his having been there.

        Drives to the site – secrets Indulgence, does some more fishing, and may even drive up to Cody to the Museum and “Checks in” – Gives then some money, smiles, and heads back – slowly to Santa Fe.

        “Hi sweetie – I’m home.”
        “How was your trip?”
        “Went great – Had a good time.”
        “Anything special happen?”
        “Nope – Had a good laugh at myself, but other than that – pretty un-eventful” 🙂 JDA

      • Charlie M.

        I’m beginning to think that way too. I feel he was to old to fly himself. And to go with someone might give away his spot. Closer to home is what I’m thinking.

  77. Does anyone recall that Fenn provided and answer as to what he considered to be “north” and he reportedly replied that he would consider north to be anywhere from 275 degrees to 89 degrees? I seem to remember this but it’s a little blurry now.

  78. Charlie M,
    IMO, “hint of riches old and new” refers to the geographical place where we can see riches of both the current RMs as well as the ancient Mtns that once stood there.

  79. So Fenn, like all of us, will eventually die. The big question is; Where will his final resting place be? Likely he will be cremated and his ashes will be spread in his favorite places. This is quite a common occurrence today. So he may choose the great rivers of Yellowstone, and the majestic mountains just north of Santa Fe. But there is another place, an ancient burial ground in the north of Santa Fe, where “a bit” of him will be. Why? Because Fenn loves Santa Fe, it is his home. It is the place that gave him the extraordinary life he has experienced. He feels a mutual respect with it. Santa Fe is as much a part of him as he is a part of Santa Fe. This burial ground is historic and no one has been buried there in a hundred plus years. It is reserved “for the settlers of Santa Fe”. This is exactly how Fenn thinks of himself. A pioneer, who came to Santa Fe, worked hard, learned a new craft and was successful beyond his wildest dreams. Why is this important? Because the chest will be next to Fenn. No it is not in the graveyard. Keep this thought as you read on.

    Fenn filled the chest with a wide variety of items. All of which are to arouse our curiosity and have us invest ourselves in the “Chase”. Fenn closes the chest and then mentions that there is a bit of him in the chest. That bit is faith and as you start the poem what you here is the voice of faith.

    As I (faith) have gone alone in there
    And with my treasures bold (the items which are meant to propagate to faith.)
    I (faith) can keep my secret where
    And hint of riches new and old.
    From this point we find ourselves, uncovering all manner of treasures new and old. The poem encourages us to seek answers. We study maps, geography, aviation, poetry, literature, history, films, the west, mountain men, math, language etc. All we needed was a little faith.
    When was the last time you learned so much in such a short period of time?
    This is why Fenn’s father smiles. His son has become a teacher. That’s why he brought him on the detour to the little school house in Wyoming, and this is why you should show it to a child.
    Fenn was under pressure to develop a method by which to give us the faith we needed to find the chest. It would be a long and arduous journey. He only had a year or so to launch his plan.
    He needed to create his version of faith. A religion, if you will, to make sure people would keep looking. The faith would of course be open to all regardless of their religion, race, age, gender, or mental capacity. The actual chest could be found by anyone.
    The ritual of hiking through the mountains is Fenn’s vehichle for insuring faith.
    The second stanza introduces us with water, and many have associated this stanza with birth, and they would be right. But what about the home of Brown.” Put in below the home of brown “= launched under providence. Enter the water under providence. Cleanse yourself in the mountain spring, stream or lake.
    “From there it’s no place for the meek. The end is ever drawing nigh. There’ll be no paddle up you creek. Just heavy loads and water high”. These lines represent life’s difficulties, family problems, work, and perhaps moral and ethical dilemmas you are experiencing. As you continue on your hike these things seem to melt away as you breathe the high mountain air and feel the sunshine on your face.
    If you’ve been wise and found the blaze” you have been enlightened, you are free from these hindrances. “look quickly down your quest to cease” you see yourself. “Enlighten yourself”.
    “Just take the chest and go in peace”. Free from your difficulties you can now free to commune with nature. You are in the temple.
    “So why is it that I must go and leave my trove for all to seek” = faith
    “The answers I already know” =confirmed.
    Your hike has brought you to a place where you can find yourself comfortable with whom and what you are. Why? So you can see what is all around you. Order. Perfect order. Just like Fennn’s silverware drawer. An order in which everything is in its place. Every niche is filled. It is perfection.
    Whether it happened by chance or by the hand of a supreme being makes no difference. You are one with it.
    And that is where Fenn wants you to be.
    So where is the chest ? The little bronze box remains in Fenn’s possession. But the bronze chest sits next to the burial ground north of Santa Fe.
    This outline of our path was borrowed by Fenn. He did not have time to create his own religion.
    This path is a thinly veiled journey through the sacraments of the Catholic Church.
    But why? Why would Fenn involve the Catholic Church?
    Because the chest you are really looking for, the one you actually stand a reasonable chance of finding is The Cathedral of S.t Francis of Assisi. The Bronze chest that is right next to ancient burial ground where at least a bit of Fenn will be left to rest forever.
    Fenn will likely not come forward to end the chase himself. He does not think anyone will believe me/the finder and this is what he says at the end of the poem.
    “Your efforts will be worth the cold” . =you will eventually be rewarded but for now you will be out in the cold.
    “If you are brave and in the wood”=If you have faith in yourself and in Forrest.
    “I give you title to the gold”

    I don’t have the book with me, so this is not a direct quote Fenn says; Why not let them look for some of it while I am still alive, and maybe after I’m gone? Meaning that even if someone finds it while I’m alive I will let the others continue looking. It is only in death that Fenn will come through with the real box of gold. Unless he has had a change of hea

    With this short simple key you should easily be able to reconcile all of Fenn’s statements regarding the location of the treasure and the chest.
    I= faith
    Treasure = faith
    Chest = The Cathedral of St. Francis of Assisi in Santa Fe, New Mexico

  80. JDA….what a hoot……hay sweetie….no I just had oats! I enjoy reading your posts and some make me think…others are laughing out loud.
    Checking in here off and on has started to become a ritual….and your posts are a must read for me as well as the other swell regulars
    who can put some grand spins on things.
    I really liked your short story of Forrest In Cody.

    “Hay Sweetie”….I am heading to the barn.
    Thanks for the oil of gladness

    • Guy;

      Glad that you got your “Laugh for the day.”

      Not sure that your checking in on my posts is of much benefit – but thanks anyway. I am retired, addicted to the Chase, and have a lot of fun posting.

      Hope that what I have to say benefits some – probably irritates a few – and sure helps me pass the time – 🙂 JDA

  81. We have returned from our ‘solve’ search……. empty handed. Here is where we went. Maybe it is there, but I couldn’t find it. Mammoth Hot Springs: WWWH, at Boiling Creek hot spring where it meets the Gardiner River, there is a lovely place to spa. Rte 89 N will take you down the Gardiner Canyon. Not too far, before you get to Gardiner, MT ( historical home of Joe Brown the gold miner) is Rescue Creek trail head. It is not a real creek, just a trail. You can not paddle this “creek”. You can cross a foot bridge and follow old pathways along the river made by fly fisherman, and before them, Elk and Bison. I was not wise enough to spot the trail marking. But if this is the location that FF has placed his treasure, along the waters that lead to Yellowstone River , down paradise valley, then he has picked a special place to rest his bones. It would be fitting to bury a treasure in Montana, “The Treasure State”. Good luck searchers, and thanks FF. We enjoyed our family camping trip through Teton/Bridger and also in Montana. Minimal light pollution. The stars show was worth it!

  82. Lota crazy people on here including myself.
    Freedom of speech is a beautiful thing.

    dodo, you are brilliant in your thinking & will never persuade you from what you think you know.
    You must have been a rocket scientist or someone important in your day.
    I sense you put many hours, days, months & years into your thought.
    There’s another chest in Fenn’s home that could be the chest.

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