A place to discuss Forrest’s book, Too Far To Walk.
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115 thoughts on “Too Far To Walk…”
First.
ten miles which was easy in ones youth to float the fire hole but now its just to far to walk but he could if he had a mind to. he would find a way i believe i know every where i go is wrong yet i still go i listen not in a structure not in a grave yard not up or down any steep prefaces what theirs to much fog to see.
Second also.
Thank you very much, Dal! Talk about a fast response! There are so many interesting tidbits in TFTW to post about it’s hard to know where to begin…
Zaphod…I do believe I read that DAL took that picture for Forrest just a few days before TFTW went into print. Forrest’s publishing company then added a few things and made it happen…that’s the benefit of owning your own printing company…right Forrest? 🙂 Loved the insight into FF’s life(TFTW)…
Also, Zap…I totally enjoy reading your input as well as others, but you make sense and you stand by it. Good luck Zap!
I’ll start with the end papers of the book. You have what appears to be a Lorraine Cross between the lamp and the alligator — an object which is never explained in the book. The duckling under Amelia Earhart’s plane does not appear anywhere in the book (unlike all the other illustrations). The picture of Peggy with her fishing rod is mirror-reversed from how it appears in the book, and as a result it forms an “X” with the flyfishing pole to its left underneath Bip the skunkified dog.
How about the military looking guy on the horse, where’s his story?
Eaglesabound: Chapter 26: lost and found – a saga, page 126. My interpretation is that the illustration is depicting the ghost of the Spaniard on his horse.
I read that chapter too, Zap…but that guy looks more like General Custer then a Spanish soldier , to me anyways…
Eaglesabound: good point! The man on horseback looks more contemporary than a 16th or 17th century Conquistador. For one thing, where’s the comb morion? What would a rider from over 400 years ago be doing wearing a long coat and cowboy hat? Doesn’t quite look like Custer to me, but that’s certainly a closer match than any Spaniard.
I must not have much of an imagination. The rider looks like an every day cowboy wearing his cowboy hat, chaps, and duster. One you’ll see on the range.
Exactly pdenver…
I wonder what the story is of this cowboy? This pic was one of those things that got caught up in my brain…lol
Hi pdenver: the question is, why is this rider, house and fence in a lighter shade than the 5 characters around the pickup truck? Maybe it’s just an artistic technique to show perspective by deemphasizing the background. There is precedent elsewhere in the book: the J. R. Williams cartoon on page 75, Sosoko on page 160, the background behind Garrey Carruthers on page 179, and the horse and tepee poles on page 192.
Hello Eaglesabound. The cowboy in the drawing on page 126 may be depicted as the rancher as stated by Mr. Fenn in his story:
‘The rancher who discovered the items said he had found them exposed in an arroyo that was eroding on his place, which I later learned was the famous Pitchfork Ranch.’
Hello zaphod. I believe the sketch may be the artist’s rendition of the story, but relating two scenes as one. Allow me to explain. The Spanish historical items were located by a rancher on his place, which was the famous Pitchfork Ranch. This would be the lightly shaded background. Mr. Fenn was at a gas station and noticed the pickup with others around it, which held said items, hence the darker sketch. This is how I see the sketch telling the story.
Pdenver: that’s a very good possibility. Can’t think of a good reason why someone would be on horseback in front of their house/ranch right behind the pickup, when we know the pickup was parked at the gas station.
Hello zaphod. A gas station prevents halts. 🙂
Zap…the pickup pulled up in front of a *house* that was about 30′ from where Fenn was standing. page 128
Gosh, did I read that chapter incorrectly, ken. I wonder if Mr. Fenn was stretching his legs. The reason why I ask is because the chapter said an attendant was pumping fuel into his car, yet he was standing.
Hi ken: should have pulled the book out to remind myself. So that explains the house’s proximity. And since the house is lighter sketched just like the horse and rider, it suggests the cowboy was there as well.
Zap, pdenver…this is another example of how folks miss things and think something is…when it really isn’t. Happens every day….many posts based on misinformation.
A new discussion thread, how exciting.
Hey Zap, also consider the double dagger. Many of the symbols will have a pommel and a point. Some even have the guards set to one side. A more likely candidate? Maybe.
Hi Clee: the double-dagger used in typography is usually symmetric (and two-dimensional, of course), while the object depicted on page 219 and in the end papers is apparently three-dimensional. That said, the Lorraine Cross isn’t a perfect match either — usually the top crossbar is narrower than the bottom one. There are at least two more objects that Forrest discusses in books and elsewhere that include this general double-cross shape: telephone poles and the design on the face of an Oreo cookie.
What made you say Oreo cookie? Curious. Thanks.
Opto: Oreo cookies mentioned in Tea With Olga in TTOTC.
Thanks. Reminds me of childhood. Has a certain innocence and nostalgia to it. I think Ii stopped dunking Oreos about the same time I grew out of my imagination.
Dragonfly and the Isleta Cross – –
Also called the Pueblo Cross, the Isleta Cross is a very old Pueblo design associated with the Isleta Pueblo. The double-bar cross design is said to have originated with the Moors and Spaniards.
Loco: I LIKE IT! Its equal width crossbars is a better match than the Lorraine or patriarchal cross, and being Pueblo aligns better with Forrest’s interests. Thanks for posting the link!
Loco…I agree and have had that in my cross hairs for a few years.
Hence the *dragonfly* hat I posted for the last hat contest. There are a few other tidbits concerning that symbol as well…
ok…here’s another… Charmay and me…on rectangular bowl.
Good eye, Ken! I can’t believe I missed that in the 25 times I’ve read this book cover to cover — the top of the cross on page 219 even points directly to it. Duh!
There are others in some not so obvious places as well….
Interesting also that page 218 has a reference to that oft talked about *sandwich*.
@ken,
LOL!! I’ve never underestimated you! 🙂
It’s just fun to show the Johnny-Come-Latelies that they might oughta dig a little deeper…..like us’n ol’ timers! They ‘might’ find it, but we’ll show them the way!!….and yeah, been sitting on for a few years also…. 🙂
Good Luck to Ya (and evabody else 🙂 ) …..loco
Hi Loco — I certainly consider myself a relative newcomer, but in fairness several of us were discussing this symbol on MW over a year ago (I started the thread):
You could have chimed in them. Or do you not read/participate in Jenny’s forum?
Yup….the masked mosquito sings a lively song Loco !
He’s in the poem if you can find him/her….
@Zap….LOL!! I thought that would get a rise out of you!! 🙂
I post where I want/when I want….well, except for that one place that shant be mentioned….but, I had over 2,000 posts there, before I got disgusted and nuked all of them.
“You could have chimed in them.” – – now why on earth would I give you everything? I didn’t say I didn’t respect some of ya!! 🙂
Yeah, it’s been discussed several times over the years. Apparently like ‘ken’, I wasn’t ready to give it up yet…..why dontcha ask ‘ken’ the same question??? 🙂
Good Luck Zap…..I like your style!!!
Hi Loco — no offense taken, and I can understand your disgust with the MW forum. It regularly gets hijacked by a number of characters that seem determined to hide the few pearls of wisdom in a sea of, well, seaweed.
As for this Pueblo/Lorraine/Patriarch cross business, it really is a minor point AFAIC. It’s not going to help anyone who hasn’t solved WWWH, and probably won’t even help most that have. That’s why I had no reservations about blabbing about it. The point is: it’s a cross, and as you well know, Forrest’s books are filled with a wide variety of references to them.
Jeebzum Loco….The bus tires just missed my melon! Zap…you have been dancing around some good stuff since you’ve been around…but just like some of the *goodies* you omitted from your OUAW list, I like to hold on to a few of mine. This particular one is abstract enough that I believe it matters not whether it is out there or not. In fact there’s probably a whole lot more that could get laid out there and none of us would know the difference. Heck…it has been said before…the correct solve could be posted and it would probably just get pigeon-holed or poo pooed into the ditch…if someone did not have the first clue nailed.
The two new book threads are great and I am glad you mentioned it and Dal saw fit to add them. Let’s move onward…
Zap!! I have posted on Jenny’s forum and will probably do so again. yeah, it does get tedious at times.
But the site I was referenced that I no longer post on was NOT one of Sixer’s sites…..I have no problem with hers ay all!!!
The one I eas talking about is sometimes known as ‘the pond’………….
Ah, Loco — that makes much more sense. Yes, Jenny’s attracts its share of oddballs, but it hardly compares to the site that shall not be named. Borrowing Obi Wan’s words about Mos Eisley spaceport: “You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.”
Now you have me curious about what site this is.
Note to Dal, Tim Walker’s site has an expired registration so it looks like it’s now defunct.
What site do you refer? I’m curious.
Yes, I had stumbled upon the dragonfly in my research as well. Its interesting when you think about the characteristics of that symbol in the book then compare and contrast them with what is out there. In some ways it seems like it can be a morph of multipe I have always believed that this symbol somehow will make sense one day, that is if I can ever make it to the end. But no dice today. Ha.
That is a good link. Thanks for sharing.
The version of that cross identified as a dragonfly predates the coming of the Spaniards.
You can see it on the parts of the Pottery Mound kiva murals reproduced here on the cover of Polly Schaafsma’s book on the excavations:
It’s also found on at least one pre-encounter plate that I’m aware of, and also at multiple rock art sites in the southwest (I can provide other references to anyone interested.)
(the Pottery Mound site is on the Rio Puerco, southwest of Albuquerque NM – it was reburied after excavation, not open to the public as far as I know)
Jake
That is a great one too Jake. There are a number of early examples of that symbol if one digs for them. Thanks for sharing that…
The duck appears on page 181 running from the alligator (Beowulf).
Fred Y.
Hi Fred Y.: not the duck running from Beowulf, the floating duckling under Amelia’s Electra.
Hey Zaphod,
Okay, I see the little guy your talking about now. It is not an exact match but maybe it is one of the little ducklings from page 180 then.
Fred Y.
Hi Fred Y.: yes, he does have the illustration of the group of ducklings on that page. But as you noticed that lone duckling in the end papers is distinct from all of them — it’s a separate sketch. It’s anomalous to me because all of the other end-paper illustrations have exact copies from somewhere within the book (though mirror-reversed in the case of Peggy with the catfish).
In my “solve,” to far to walk is not an important clue especially since FF recently said he could get there on a bicycle.
Tony Hawk just called…his solve allows him to skate right up to it…”hawk” chap 40…maybe he’s right??
Where/when did FF recently say he could get there on a bicycle?
Jeez.
Dal Neitzel recently posted a new page titled “Forrest Gets Mail” and began by saying, “Forrest gets dozens of emails each day from folks looking for his fabled bronze chest. Every once in a while, he shares some of his email with us. Below is some of Forrest’s personal brand of wit and wisdom.”
One person wrote in a message to Forrest, “I have a couple of suggestions for your final hour,” and continued with ideas on how, when FF chooses to die, he could return to the TC unnoticed, and continued with, “I wouldn’t want you to commit suicide like your father but…” and the writer offered assistance with a suicide.
Forrest responded, “I am a very simple person and you want me to have copious meetings with lawyers, preachers, undertakers, and your family. What is wrong with me just riding my bike out there and throwing it in the ‘water high’ when I am through with it?”
Do not interpret this as FF saying he could ride a bicycle from his home in Santa Fe all the way to the location of the TC. What I hear him saying is that he could arrive at the TC on a bicycle, which I assume he would buy locally or transport in the car he said he would park at the Denver Museum of Nature and Science.
Jeez. You could have Googled and found this yourself.
vfhoyt – also, FF did not say the Denver museum part…Doug Preston wrote that…hard to claim it is a fib, FF we can assume had some editorial authority, but maybe not the forward? Either way FF did NOT say/write that…DP did…just sayin…geez.
I knew about this stuff, but was trying to help you regarding your
ability to solve the poem . . . which requires clear thinking and
logic. The hidey place is not within 3000 feet of a suitable bicycling area. All in my opinion.
In the 1930’s, the earliest decade of memories for Forrest Fenn was a period of “Tough Times” dominated by the term “Great Depression”, I suppose that ff was well aware because he shot birds sometimes to feed the family and hated the “Brown Gravy” which was a staple of the Hobo and too often, much of a families diet in America.
When someone of that time said it was “too far to walk” it meant they would have to hitch a ride, cause no money for gas, much less a dependable car, that economic state was very common in rural America. Now that practice was so common that while I was in the Navy in the 1960’s I hitchhiked coast to coast twice in uniform, never a thought about who would pick me up because a some WWII gent who lived through those times was always sympathetic to my need. Also I remember some old time “Hobo’s” as we called them, hanging around the train tracks lookin to see if a Pinkerton Man or Train Engineer/Conductor would bump these “Bum’s” off the train, because after all it was just too far to walk.
When your frame of reference for life starts out in the Depression Era, you see things as different as night and day from kids today, part of ff’s reason for hiding the TC was to impart the knowledge of survival in tough times to the next generation and how to survive off the land seems really important to Fenn.
I am not sure how far at each point in Forrest’s life became “too far to walk” but I am sure that the distance is not what is important say 90 miles or 45, or even 10…Nope, TFTW in his POEM, has nothing to do with distance, that changes with age, and times, no it has everything to do with how you get transported, “Trains Planes and Auto’s” movie from 1987, even bicycles, 20 miles to get a bath in 40’s?
I think I remember a Movie or two that Forrest probably watched when he convalesced like “Good Morning Vietnam” 1987, “Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade” 1989 and funny how Forrest got his Ideas for hiding the TC? Wrote these word in the poem:
“So why is it that I must go
And leave my trove for all to seek?
The answers I already know,
I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.
IMO a more important message of this passage/stanza was what he was doing in 1987 thru 1989. RECOVERY creates inspiration, inspiration, imagination and knowledge are the key so what are they? Hints, because the times dictate feelings and memories which are summed up in all 3 books TTOTC, TFTW, and OUAW.
When you understand the times you may understand the man and his message, even if we never find the “Indulgence” we have found a treasure.
Coming home from the Vietnam War was probably pivotal in ff’s life and that was when he may have discovered that special place, that one of escape, so he filed it away and later showed special people the pathway, with no human trail, those friends he palled around with, Eric or his brother Skip and certainly showed the place to his dad, William Marvin who would have been about 80 then.
TT
“Sharing is caring.” Thanks.
Hi TT.
Being an octogenaria myself, I relate & agree to much of what you said. Thought you might enjoy this tidbit… In the 1980’s I had an elderly uncle get a little arched when I referred to him during his years of traversing the country in box cars, as a bum. ‘Bum” was an insulting word. He (my uncle) corrected me, he was a “Hobo”…. he rode in the boxcars, he never “rode the rods like a bum” (under the box car), There’s always a pecking order.
1930’s menu posted to bring back memories for Forrest and other friends. (Copied from a book as reported online)
Milk toast
Chipped beef on toast
Cucumber and mustard sandwiches
Mayonnaise sandwiches
Ketchup sandwiches
Hot milk and rice
Turtle/tortoise
Gopher
Potato soup – water base, not milk
Dandelion salad
Lard sandwiches
Bacon grease sandwiches
Sugar sandwiches
Hot dogs and baked beans
Road kill
One eyed Sam – piece of bread with an easy over egg in the center
Oatmeal mixed with lard
Fried potatoes and hot dogs
Onion sandwich – slices of onion between bread
Tomato gravy and biscuits
Deep fried chicken skin
Cornbread in milk was a favorite Great Depression meal.
Gravy and bread – as a main dish
Toast with mashed potatoes on top with gravy
Creamed corn on toast
Corn mush with milk for breakfast, fried corn mush for dinner
Squirrel
Rice in milk with some sugar
Beans
Fried potato peel sandwiches
Banana slices with powdered sugar and milk
Corn pone
Boiled cabbage
Hamburger mixed with oatmeal
Tomato gravy on rice
Toast with milk gravy
Water fried pancakes
Chicken feet in broth
Fried bologna
Warm canned tomatoes with bread
Butter and sugar sandwiches
Fried potato and bread cubes
Bean soup
Runny eggs with grits
Butter and grits with sugar and milk
Baked apples
Sliced boiled pork liver on buttered toast (slice liver with potato peeler)
Corn meal mush
Spaghetti with tomato juice and navy beans
Whatever fish or game you could catch/hunt
Tomato sandwiches
Hard boiled eggs in white sauce over rice
Spam and noodles with cream of mushroom soup
Rag soup: spinach, broth and lots of macaroni
Garbanzo beans fried in chicken fat or lard, salted, and eaten cold
Popcorn with milk and sugar – ate it like cereal
American cheese sandwich: ‘American’ cheese was invented because it was cheap to make, and didn’t require refrigeration that many people who lived during this era didn’t have and was part of many Great Depression meals.
I’m only 75, but many on this list were staples – JDA
I like your “pecking order” hint.
OS2, I never knew there was a pecking order when it came to riding boxcars! NOW I DO! Thanks for that tidbit! I grew up within 300 feet of the railroad tracks and ALWAYS wanted to hop on one and just ride it to the end…and then call my parents to come and get me(where ever that was) but I knew my butt would be BURING once we met and then after we arrived home! LOL! True story…spare the rod, spoil the child! YEEEE HAWWWW!!!
In my opinion, too far to walk is a major clue. I think that due to its importance and combined with how we as a community were missing it, is exactly why he chose that phrase to name his book. I believe it to be a multifaceted concept that helps to get you going in the right direction and continues to provide problems that require you to find his solutions all along the way.
In my own solve, too far to walk is a very specific distance that helps to create an outline, or set the perimeters if you will. It refers to ways of travel other than walking. It also becomes a scenario where you are walking and an obstacle requires you to take an alternate way of travel, perhaps in the water, to continue going forward.
Who knows really but I think to reduce a line of the poem, that he turned into a book title, as less than completely important and pivotal is risky.
AA –
So, if it;s not a distance reference, then where are you?
I think I may have been misunderstood. Too far to walk has a very specific distance associated with it for me,I believe Forrest very blatantly even gives us that distance. But the reason for my post was a response to those who felt like the phrase too far too walk was insignifigant. My point was that nothing about this poem is simple or insignificant and if these solutions weren’t multidimensional rather than single i belei e the chest would have been found year 2.”
There’s someplace that I’d rather be, but it’s…
I think he wrote his second memoir “too far to walk” because he felt The Thrill of the Chase didn’t cover everything he wanted to say about the chase & his life.
Didn’t F mentioned somewhere that “too far to walk” was a metaphor for his life?
Sorta like someone telling you – you can’t do this or that – it’s too far to walk.
The preface seems to give cred to the general area where the treasure is hidden or at least where some clues are.
The 5th line in the poem is where to begin & Chapter 5 RBIB seems likely imo.
Once he said he would like to go back to his favorite fishing hole, which I think was the 9 mile, but now it’s too far to walk.
As you know Jake, it’s not far at all.
So he uses as a euphemism in the same way one might lament, that’s a bridge too far.
Lugnutz
Comes a time in life where you want to do what you can’t.
Too far to walk
Another great book cover.
It gives the feeling of hope.
Clearly Clueless
I wonder if FF self-workshops the acronyms for his book titles (TTOTC, TFTW, OUAW). Maybe he really wanted to title one “Many Useful Days”, but didn’t want it referred to as MUD…
LOL
Or
How I Think
Clearly Clueless
Trout, Rods, and Saddle Hackles
I suppose there’s at least one person that looks for clues in the Acronyms…
Maybe someone might want to choose an acronymical NAME for themself, if he/she plans to dig under some wood. Perhaps related to the phrase
“My Underwood Digging”?
Ok FMC, I’ll bite…
Tot as is a kid, or, tot as in tater tots? Kids love tater tots…happy meal? That’s a lot of McD’s restaurants to search…even in the RM area!
Jeremiah Johnson: [Jeremiah and Caleb see a bird flying across the sky] “Hawk…. goin’ for the Musselshell. Take me a week’s ridin’, and he’ll be there in… hell, he’s there already.”
to me the most telling chapter in TFTW would be My Prehistoric Friends.
in this chapter Forrest describes how an ancient indian family watches he and a friend dig for artifacts.
I think Forrest is trying to describe a modern family at a museum watching mannekins dig for artifacts. its the mannekins who are silent, not the family. the family doesn’t stay long because they move on to the next display at the museum. Forrest portrays himself as a mannekin.
next thought…
too far to walk in pioneer days was about 20 miles a day. Midwestern towns are about 20 miles apart.
if we begin at WWWH and then the canyon down too far to walk would be more than 20 miles. canyon up is a more difficult walk, probably only 7 miles.
my guess is from WWWH to HOB is 20-60 miles down the canyon.
the distance from Yellowstone to Cody.
I guess.
I think too far to walk has to be driven. He says not too far, but too far to walk. I highly doubt it will be over 10 miles but what do I know?
I agree – can be driven, is not over 10 miles – But what do I know? – NADA – JDA
Deano and JDA- i wish i knew what do. but i dont.
Your insights into this hunt definitely put you above NADA.
Thanks – Only time will tell though – Good luck to Ya’ – JDA
I think it can’t be walked by him when he wrote that line in the poem.
Pick your transportation mode whatever it may be.
You could be floating down the Madison on some heavy loads & that would not be walking.
Also think this line is a hint & not a clue.
Would it be too far to run?
I agree. Best to do it tired.
Oh, and I did buy both books…TFTW & TTOTC…and I loved reading BOTH of them! Fenn makes me chuckle in both books with his words! Reminds me of someone I know…makes me laugh just thinking about FF’s books again even now!
To far to walk but not to far to ride a bike.
Too far to walk, but too far to ride a bike. (I think that’s what you meant to post.)
I think you have it. Somewhere between the two.
For searchers playing around with the idea that the clues point to the Green River in southern Wyoming, I’m sure you’ve latched onto pages 112 and 113 with the picture of the matchbook from the Flamingo Hotel and Forrest mentioning seeing Fran Warren singing there. Flamingo –> Flaming Gorge. 😉
I think the Flamingo has one leg up on us in regards to the Chase. 🙂
You undercooked it, Zap. Fran Warren clearly hints to Captain Kidd and Skull Island.
Jake
Hi JAK: are you sure? I think that chapter of TFTW is all about blazes:
Candle next to Forrest’s head in the illustration
SUNday
First word on top of page 113 is “torch”
Flaming-o
One could even say Fran was a “flame” to young Forrest.
Pretty sure, Zap – she’s in the movie *Abbott and Costello Meet Captain Kidd*, which features a map to a treasure buried on Skull Island. 😉
(I’ve botg wild-goose-chased the Green River in Colorado, and the lake and headwaters up in Wyoming is a lovely place to camp. I still like them both chase-wise. Unfortunately for Flaming Gorge Dam as the blaze, looking up at it or looking down from it both put you in Utah.)
(The Flamingo itself in Las Vegas is north of Santa Fe; the flamingos at Hialeah, though, are south of Santa Fe and under 5,000 feet.)
Jake
JAK: She’s also in Finnian’s Rainbow. As for Flaming Gorge, it’s just a coincidence — but an example of the kind of thing that searchers latch onto as being too exact to be anything but a deliberate hint.
I was right there with you. Couldn’t think of a Bugsy Sigel angle, so took the easy Captain Kidd shot instead.
Thought we might see if the old chain
Captain Kidd (TotC) > Gardiner Island > Gardiner MT > Gardner River WY/MT > Gardner Island > Amelia Earhart (TFTW)
was still a live wire with anyone.
Jake
(PS – she played in it live on stage, but she wasn’t in the movie)
Zap –
I don’t know who you are talking to as I don’t recall many mentions of Flaming Gorge from anyone other than me.
That are becomes more interesting because the Fenn Clovis Cache comes from the Green River valley.
And then there is all the brown stuff and navigational arrows.
My original Brown search area, unless the dinosaurs were first with Meeker, can’t remember.
Hi Lug: I couldn’t remember which searcher had mentioned Flaming Gorge — just knew at least one person had once upon a while.
Lug – curious on a citation for your statement that the Fenn Clovis Cache came from green river valley? I recall they guessed ‘near the Idaho/WY/UT border’…which is outside the green river basin…just curious if you have another source for Fenn Cache info…online is sparse…maybe I need to get my a$$ to a library one of these days..
Unless something’s come to light since the Frison & Bradley book (1999), the best educated guess places the initial discovery much closer to the Bear drainage than the Green.
Jake
Yes, we are thinking of the same story. The cache came from the large area where the three states meet. I recall that it was simultaneously referred to as in the Green River Valley, and I too thought that was odd.
The whole west of 191 doesn’t rank high with chasers.
Thanks guys, that sounds about right…I think the reason those archeology sites tend to say green river (valley, butte, basin, etc.) is that green river CHERT comes from the area…common materials used to make the projectiles. Just wanted to see what else might be out there…Jake, sounds like you’ve read the Frison book, just curious if you own it? Frison is definitely a rabbit hole I can get down, and I believe Lug turned me onto the UofWY frison institute and FF linkage…any thoughts on Lindenmeier? Since we’re both in NoCO I thought it could be a fun day trip…have wanted to visit, just hadn’t convinced myself it would be search related, just interesting. There are links to FoCo discovery museum and Denver NH museum as well, and the timeline fits perfect with him and his dad looking for artifacts, hence my interest, curious if you guys have any thoughts. There is also a nearby link to St. Gaudens as well…during my formative years I spent summers and long weekends in Laramie, my folks would meet in the middle at FoCo to share me, I know the area well, but learned a lot more in the chase (thanks Forrest!). If any interest my email is in the Wind River Canyon story under Armchair searches.
Hey-O, Tbug –
I prospected (inter-library loan) the book a few years ago, but didn’t spend much time with it – Clovis and Folsom aren’t really in my wheelhouse. My armchair archaeology is very Anasazi and Mesoamerica oriented. I’d encountered Bruce Bradley’s work in that context, so knew his name before I ever heard of the chase or the cache. (Actually knew about San Lazaro too long before I ever heard of the chase – the masks were remarked on in a paper on Pueblo religion. Craig Childs also interviewed ff in the context of artifact collecting 8 or 9 years ago.)
I’m mighty sure that the Fenn Cache won’t get anyone closer to the chest. Soapstone and the Lindenmeier site *would* make a great little (non-chase) trip.
It’s pretty sunbaked out there, so I’d consider it more an October-type opportunity than a dog-days hike – Snowy Range is more my speed this time of year. 😉
Jake
Tbug now you got me reading all the Fenn Frison stuff again.
How about this?
“The late Forrest Fenn already addressed the SAA, years ago.”
Forrest! you are late! And you have been late since 2015!!
Lugnutz
Finally, finally ordered TFTW and got it lickety-split quick – thanks, Dal ! Couldn’t resist some browsing and looking forward to the thrill of the read this weekend. Followed, no doubt, by stunning insight and a dazzling solution. All seriousness aside, I love to read people’s stories, hints or not, win-win.
H Alt(ernative) and C Any On . . . Down
Spelling time people
Not far, but to O
Two O’s
HO and CO
Continue as you please. Food for thought only.
I really don’t want to take the time to read through this entire blog, so forgive me if this has been discussed here.
With all the talk about JD and Catcher In The Rye on pages 11-14 in TTOTC, I found this pretty interesting:
Too Far To Walk written in 1969 by John Hersey states that it is “The sequel to The Catcher In The Rye.” (Not posting a link cause you can find the cover anywhere).
Too Far To Walk is the sequel to TTOTC. On purpose?
Coincidence?
Let’s talk
In the chapter “Concy and Me” do you suppose that the entourage in the black limousine might have been that of President Harry S. Truman?
Re-reading that chapter this evening just gave me “presidential” vibes for some reason. There was the fact that the access road was closed to vehicles, even for people with mobility impairments, and yet this black limousine shows up on the access road. It must have been a very special exception for a very important person, don’t you think?
Can anyone help me understand a passage in the book? On page 144 in the chapter “jackie kennedy – a rare lady” it reads as follows:
“She had read the flyleaf of a book I had written that spoke to my having been a fighter pilot in Vietnam. She was curious and wanted to question me about that experience, and reminded me that her husband had been the president to first send troops into that conflict – ‘advisors they were called,’ she said. It was easy to see that she had given the subject some thought.”
What I haven’t been able to understand in the above passage is the quoted phrase “advisors they were called” and how that fits into the context of the sentence. The fact that it is quoted I interpret that as meaning an exact phrase that Jackie Kennedy used in the conversation (as Forrest remembers it anyway). But is she making an aside comment that advisors were called in order to help JFK make the decision to send troops to Vietnam? Or was she saying that JFK’s advisors referred to the Vietnam War as a “conflict”?
I’ve read and re-read this passage a few times over this morning and cannot make heads or trails what that little quoted bit means exactly. Any ideas?
The troops that were sent were called “advisors” … she was correcting herself in calling them “troops”.
Thank you, Elbert Ainstein! That’s one fact about the Vietnam War period that I did not know until today.
Blex, in hindsight of having been in the Amphibious Navy during the first part of the war, I went in 1964 got out the day of the start of the tet offensive in 1967/68, advisors were the crack combat ready Soldiers, Sailor, administrators of logistical strategy, planning, defense specialist, purchasing agents etc who often scope out a focus for either advising or recommending actions, or the lack thereof. Many believe had JFK been alive we would have either left Vietnam or perhaps Nuked the Nort into submission, but his leadership being absent and LBJ/McNamara were super cautious at first then believed that we could win a jungle conflict with superior firepower, which we did execute without realizing the mistake the french had made in 1947. Indo China had a common goal, communism seemed to be their answer for economics, community spirit was subdued in favor of fear and tyranny. If a community helped US the Americans, the children of that community would have disappeared or had a limb removed in retaliation. Brutal but real if you were in the villagers shoes what would you do?
TG
Tom – To be honest, I don’t know; I’m glad that’s a decision I haven’t had to make.
First.
ten miles which was easy in ones youth to float the fire hole but now its just to far to walk but he could if he had a mind to. he would find a way i believe i know every where i go is wrong yet i still go i listen not in a structure not in a grave yard not up or down any steep prefaces what theirs to much fog to see.
Second also.
Thank you very much, Dal! Talk about a fast response! There are so many interesting tidbits in TFTW to post about it’s hard to know where to begin…
Zaphod…I do believe I read that DAL took that picture for Forrest just a few days before TFTW went into print. Forrest’s publishing company then added a few things and made it happen…that’s the benefit of owning your own printing company…right Forrest? 🙂 Loved the insight into FF’s life(TFTW)…
Also, Zap…I totally enjoy reading your input as well as others, but you make sense and you stand by it. Good luck Zap!
I’ll start with the end papers of the book. You have what appears to be a Lorraine Cross between the lamp and the alligator — an object which is never explained in the book. The duckling under Amelia Earhart’s plane does not appear anywhere in the book (unlike all the other illustrations). The picture of Peggy with her fishing rod is mirror-reversed from how it appears in the book, and as a result it forms an “X” with the flyfishing pole to its left underneath Bip the skunkified dog.
How about the military looking guy on the horse, where’s his story?
Eaglesabound: Chapter 26: lost and found – a saga, page 126. My interpretation is that the illustration is depicting the ghost of the Spaniard on his horse.
I read that chapter too, Zap…but that guy looks more like General Custer then a Spanish soldier , to me anyways…
Eaglesabound: good point! The man on horseback looks more contemporary than a 16th or 17th century Conquistador. For one thing, where’s the comb morion? What would a rider from over 400 years ago be doing wearing a long coat and cowboy hat? Doesn’t quite look like Custer to me, but that’s certainly a closer match than any Spaniard.
I must not have much of an imagination. The rider looks like an every day cowboy wearing his cowboy hat, chaps, and duster. One you’ll see on the range.
Exactly pdenver…
I wonder what the story is of this cowboy? This pic was one of those things that got caught up in my brain…lol
Hi pdenver: the question is, why is this rider, house and fence in a lighter shade than the 5 characters around the pickup truck? Maybe it’s just an artistic technique to show perspective by deemphasizing the background. There is precedent elsewhere in the book: the J. R. Williams cartoon on page 75, Sosoko on page 160, the background behind Garrey Carruthers on page 179, and the horse and tepee poles on page 192.
Hello Eaglesabound. The cowboy in the drawing on page 126 may be depicted as the rancher as stated by Mr. Fenn in his story:
‘The rancher who discovered the items said he had found them exposed in an arroyo that was eroding on his place, which I later learned was the famous Pitchfork Ranch.’
Hello zaphod. I believe the sketch may be the artist’s rendition of the story, but relating two scenes as one. Allow me to explain. The Spanish historical items were located by a rancher on his place, which was the famous Pitchfork Ranch. This would be the lightly shaded background. Mr. Fenn was at a gas station and noticed the pickup with others around it, which held said items, hence the darker sketch. This is how I see the sketch telling the story.
Pdenver: that’s a very good possibility. Can’t think of a good reason why someone would be on horseback in front of their house/ranch right behind the pickup, when we know the pickup was parked at the gas station.
Hello zaphod. A gas station prevents halts. 🙂
Zap…the pickup pulled up in front of a *house* that was about 30′ from where Fenn was standing. page 128
Gosh, did I read that chapter incorrectly, ken. I wonder if Mr. Fenn was stretching his legs. The reason why I ask is because the chapter said an attendant was pumping fuel into his car, yet he was standing.
Hi ken: should have pulled the book out to remind myself. So that explains the house’s proximity. And since the house is lighter sketched just like the horse and rider, it suggests the cowboy was there as well.
Zap, pdenver…this is another example of how folks miss things and think something is…when it really isn’t. Happens every day….many posts based on misinformation.
A new discussion thread, how exciting.
Hey Zap, also consider the double dagger. Many of the symbols will have a pommel and a point. Some even have the guards set to one side. A more likely candidate? Maybe.
Hi Clee: the double-dagger used in typography is usually symmetric (and two-dimensional, of course), while the object depicted on page 219 and in the end papers is apparently three-dimensional. That said, the Lorraine Cross isn’t a perfect match either — usually the top crossbar is narrower than the bottom one. There are at least two more objects that Forrest discusses in books and elsewhere that include this general double-cross shape: telephone poles and the design on the face of an Oreo cookie.
What made you say Oreo cookie? Curious. Thanks.
Opto: Oreo cookies mentioned in Tea With Olga in TTOTC.
Thanks. Reminds me of childhood. Has a certain innocence and nostalgia to it. I think Ii stopped dunking Oreos about the same time I grew out of my imagination.
Zap, maybe….…..
https://nativeamericanjewelrytips.wordpress.com/2017/10/03/dragonfly-and-the-isleta-cross/
Dragonfly and the Isleta Cross – –
Also called the Pueblo Cross, the Isleta Cross is a very old Pueblo design associated with the Isleta Pueblo. The double-bar cross design is said to have originated with the Moors and Spaniards.
Loco: I LIKE IT! Its equal width crossbars is a better match than the Lorraine or patriarchal cross, and being Pueblo aligns better with Forrest’s interests. Thanks for posting the link!
Loco…I agree and have had that in my cross hairs for a few years.
Hence the *dragonfly* hat I posted for the last hat contest. There are a few other tidbits concerning that symbol as well…
ok…here’s another… Charmay and me…on rectangular bowl.
Good eye, Ken! I can’t believe I missed that in the 25 times I’ve read this book cover to cover — the top of the cross on page 219 even points directly to it. Duh!
There are others in some not so obvious places as well….
Interesting also that page 218 has a reference to that oft talked about *sandwich*.
@ken,
LOL!! I’ve never underestimated you! 🙂
It’s just fun to show the Johnny-Come-Latelies that they might oughta dig a little deeper…..like us’n ol’ timers! They ‘might’ find it, but we’ll show them the way!!….and yeah, been sitting on for a few years also…. 🙂
Good Luck to Ya (and evabody else 🙂 ) …..loco
Hi Loco — I certainly consider myself a relative newcomer, but in fairness several of us were discussing this symbol on MW over a year ago (I started the thread):
http://mysteriouswritings.proboards.com/thread/958/object-illustrated-on-page-219
You could have chimed in them. Or do you not read/participate in Jenny’s forum?
Yup….the masked mosquito sings a lively song Loco !
He’s in the poem if you can find him/her….
@Zap….LOL!! I thought that would get a rise out of you!! 🙂
I post where I want/when I want….well, except for that one place that shant be mentioned….but, I had over 2,000 posts there, before I got disgusted and nuked all of them.
“You could have chimed in them.” – – now why on earth would I give you everything? I didn’t say I didn’t respect some of ya!! 🙂
Yeah, it’s been discussed several times over the years. Apparently like ‘ken’, I wasn’t ready to give it up yet…..why dontcha ask ‘ken’ the same question??? 🙂
Good Luck Zap…..I like your style!!!
Hi Loco — no offense taken, and I can understand your disgust with the MW forum. It regularly gets hijacked by a number of characters that seem determined to hide the few pearls of wisdom in a sea of, well, seaweed.
As for this Pueblo/Lorraine/Patriarch cross business, it really is a minor point AFAIC. It’s not going to help anyone who hasn’t solved WWWH, and probably won’t even help most that have. That’s why I had no reservations about blabbing about it. The point is: it’s a cross, and as you well know, Forrest’s books are filled with a wide variety of references to them.
Jeebzum Loco….The bus tires just missed my melon! Zap…you have been dancing around some good stuff since you’ve been around…but just like some of the *goodies* you omitted from your OUAW list, I like to hold on to a few of mine. This particular one is abstract enough that I believe it matters not whether it is out there or not. In fact there’s probably a whole lot more that could get laid out there and none of us would know the difference. Heck…it has been said before…the correct solve could be posted and it would probably just get pigeon-holed or poo pooed into the ditch…if someone did not have the first clue nailed.
The two new book threads are great and I am glad you mentioned it and Dal saw fit to add them. Let’s move onward…
Zap!! I have posted on Jenny’s forum and will probably do so again. yeah, it does get tedious at times.
But the site I was referenced that I no longer post on was NOT one of Sixer’s sites…..I have no problem with hers ay all!!!
The one I eas talking about is sometimes known as ‘the pond’………….
Ah, Loco — that makes much more sense. Yes, Jenny’s attracts its share of oddballs, but it hardly compares to the site that shall not be named. Borrowing Obi Wan’s words about Mos Eisley spaceport: “You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.”
Now you have me curious about what site this is.
Note to Dal, Tim Walker’s site has an expired registration so it looks like it’s now defunct.
What site do you refer? I’m curious.
Yes, I had stumbled upon the dragonfly in my research as well. Its interesting when you think about the characteristics of that symbol in the book then compare and contrast them with what is out there. In some ways it seems like it can be a morph of multipe I have always believed that this symbol somehow will make sense one day, that is if I can ever make it to the end. But no dice today. Ha.
That is a good link. Thanks for sharing.
The version of that cross identified as a dragonfly predates the coming of the Spaniards.
You can see it on the parts of the Pottery Mound kiva murals reproduced here on the cover of Polly Schaafsma’s book on the excavations:
https://books.google.com/books?id=88P3boXpscUC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
It’s also found on at least one pre-encounter plate that I’m aware of, and also at multiple rock art sites in the southwest (I can provide other references to anyone interested.)
(the Pottery Mound site is on the Rio Puerco, southwest of Albuquerque NM – it was reburied after excavation, not open to the public as far as I know)
Jake
That is a great one too Jake. There are a number of early examples of that symbol if one digs for them. Thanks for sharing that…
The duck appears on page 181 running from the alligator (Beowulf).
Fred Y.
Hi Fred Y.: not the duck running from Beowulf, the floating duckling under Amelia’s Electra.
Hey Zaphod,
Okay, I see the little guy your talking about now. It is not an exact match but maybe it is one of the little ducklings from page 180 then.
Fred Y.
Hi Fred Y.: yes, he does have the illustration of the group of ducklings on that page. But as you noticed that lone duckling in the end papers is distinct from all of them — it’s a separate sketch. It’s anomalous to me because all of the other end-paper illustrations have exact copies from somewhere within the book (though mirror-reversed in the case of Peggy with the catfish).
In my “solve,” to far to walk is not an important clue especially since FF recently said he could get there on a bicycle.
Tony Hawk just called…his solve allows him to skate right up to it…”hawk” chap 40…maybe he’s right??
Where/when did FF recently say he could get there on a bicycle?
Jeez.
Dal Neitzel recently posted a new page titled “Forrest Gets Mail” and began by saying, “Forrest gets dozens of emails each day from folks looking for his fabled bronze chest. Every once in a while, he shares some of his email with us. Below is some of Forrest’s personal brand of wit and wisdom.”
One person wrote in a message to Forrest, “I have a couple of suggestions for your final hour,” and continued with ideas on how, when FF chooses to die, he could return to the TC unnoticed, and continued with, “I wouldn’t want you to commit suicide like your father but…” and the writer offered assistance with a suicide.
Forrest responded, “I am a very simple person and you want me to have copious meetings with lawyers, preachers, undertakers, and your family. What is wrong with me just riding my bike out there and throwing it in the ‘water high’ when I am through with it?”
Do not interpret this as FF saying he could ride a bicycle from his home in Santa Fe all the way to the location of the TC. What I hear him saying is that he could arrive at the TC on a bicycle, which I assume he would buy locally or transport in the car he said he would park at the Denver Museum of Nature and Science.
See all the letters and Forrest’s responses at https://dalneitzel.com/2012/10/02/forrest-gets-mail/.
Jeez. You could have Googled and found this yourself.
vfhoyt – also, FF did not say the Denver museum part…Doug Preston wrote that…hard to claim it is a fib, FF we can assume had some editorial authority, but maybe not the forward? Either way FF did NOT say/write that…DP did…just sayin…geez.
I knew about this stuff, but was trying to help you regarding your
ability to solve the poem . . . which requires clear thinking and
logic. The hidey place is not within 3000 feet of a suitable bicycling area. All in my opinion.
In the 1930’s, the earliest decade of memories for Forrest Fenn was a period of “Tough Times” dominated by the term “Great Depression”, I suppose that ff was well aware because he shot birds sometimes to feed the family and hated the “Brown Gravy” which was a staple of the Hobo and too often, much of a families diet in America.
When someone of that time said it was “too far to walk” it meant they would have to hitch a ride, cause no money for gas, much less a dependable car, that economic state was very common in rural America. Now that practice was so common that while I was in the Navy in the 1960’s I hitchhiked coast to coast twice in uniform, never a thought about who would pick me up because a some WWII gent who lived through those times was always sympathetic to my need. Also I remember some old time “Hobo’s” as we called them, hanging around the train tracks lookin to see if a Pinkerton Man or Train Engineer/Conductor would bump these “Bum’s” off the train, because after all it was just too far to walk.
When your frame of reference for life starts out in the Depression Era, you see things as different as night and day from kids today, part of ff’s reason for hiding the TC was to impart the knowledge of survival in tough times to the next generation and how to survive off the land seems really important to Fenn.
I am not sure how far at each point in Forrest’s life became “too far to walk” but I am sure that the distance is not what is important say 90 miles or 45, or even 10…Nope, TFTW in his POEM, has nothing to do with distance, that changes with age, and times, no it has everything to do with how you get transported, “Trains Planes and Auto’s” movie from 1987, even bicycles, 20 miles to get a bath in 40’s?
I think I remember a Movie or two that Forrest probably watched when he convalesced like “Good Morning Vietnam” 1987, “Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade” 1989 and funny how Forrest got his Ideas for hiding the TC? Wrote these word in the poem:
“So why is it that I must go
And leave my trove for all to seek?
The answers I already know,
I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.
IMO a more important message of this passage/stanza was what he was doing in 1987 thru 1989. RECOVERY creates inspiration, inspiration, imagination and knowledge are the key so what are they? Hints, because the times dictate feelings and memories which are summed up in all 3 books TTOTC, TFTW, and OUAW.
When you understand the times you may understand the man and his message, even if we never find the “Indulgence” we have found a treasure.
Coming home from the Vietnam War was probably pivotal in ff’s life and that was when he may have discovered that special place, that one of escape, so he filed it away and later showed special people the pathway, with no human trail, those friends he palled around with, Eric or his brother Skip and certainly showed the place to his dad, William Marvin who would have been about 80 then.
TT
“Sharing is caring.” Thanks.
Hi TT.
Being an octogenaria myself, I relate & agree to much of what you said. Thought you might enjoy this tidbit… In the 1980’s I had an elderly uncle get a little arched when I referred to him during his years of traversing the country in box cars, as a bum. ‘Bum” was an insulting word. He (my uncle) corrected me, he was a “Hobo”…. he rode in the boxcars, he never “rode the rods like a bum” (under the box car), There’s always a pecking order.
1930’s menu posted to bring back memories for Forrest and other friends. (Copied from a book as reported online)
Milk toast
Chipped beef on toast
Cucumber and mustard sandwiches
Mayonnaise sandwiches
Ketchup sandwiches
Hot milk and rice
Turtle/tortoise
Gopher
Potato soup – water base, not milk
Dandelion salad
Lard sandwiches
Bacon grease sandwiches
Sugar sandwiches
Hot dogs and baked beans
Road kill
One eyed Sam – piece of bread with an easy over egg in the center
Oatmeal mixed with lard
Fried potatoes and hot dogs
Onion sandwich – slices of onion between bread
Tomato gravy and biscuits
Deep fried chicken skin
Cornbread in milk was a favorite Great Depression meal.
Gravy and bread – as a main dish
Toast with mashed potatoes on top with gravy
Creamed corn on toast
Corn mush with milk for breakfast, fried corn mush for dinner
Squirrel
Rice in milk with some sugar
Beans
Fried potato peel sandwiches
Banana slices with powdered sugar and milk
Corn pone
Boiled cabbage
Hamburger mixed with oatmeal
Tomato gravy on rice
Toast with milk gravy
Water fried pancakes
Chicken feet in broth
Fried bologna
Warm canned tomatoes with bread
Butter and sugar sandwiches
Fried potato and bread cubes
Bean soup
Runny eggs with grits
Butter and grits with sugar and milk
Baked apples
Sliced boiled pork liver on buttered toast (slice liver with potato peeler)
Corn meal mush
Spaghetti with tomato juice and navy beans
Whatever fish or game you could catch/hunt
Tomato sandwiches
Hard boiled eggs in white sauce over rice
Spam and noodles with cream of mushroom soup
Rag soup: spinach, broth and lots of macaroni
Garbanzo beans fried in chicken fat or lard, salted, and eaten cold
Popcorn with milk and sugar – ate it like cereal
American cheese sandwich: ‘American’ cheese was invented because it was cheap to make, and didn’t require refrigeration that many people who lived during this era didn’t have and was part of many Great Depression meals.
I’m only 75, but many on this list were staples – JDA
I like your “pecking order” hint.
OS2, I never knew there was a pecking order when it came to riding boxcars! NOW I DO! Thanks for that tidbit! I grew up within 300 feet of the railroad tracks and ALWAYS wanted to hop on one and just ride it to the end…and then call my parents to come and get me(where ever that was) but I knew my butt would be BURING once we met and then after we arrived home! LOL! True story…spare the rod, spoil the child! YEEEE HAWWWW!!!
In my opinion, too far to walk is a major clue. I think that due to its importance and combined with how we as a community were missing it, is exactly why he chose that phrase to name his book. I believe it to be a multifaceted concept that helps to get you going in the right direction and continues to provide problems that require you to find his solutions all along the way.
In my own solve, too far to walk is a very specific distance that helps to create an outline, or set the perimeters if you will. It refers to ways of travel other than walking. It also becomes a scenario where you are walking and an obstacle requires you to take an alternate way of travel, perhaps in the water, to continue going forward.
Who knows really but I think to reduce a line of the poem, that he turned into a book title, as less than completely important and pivotal is risky.
AA –
So, if it;s not a distance reference, then where are you?
I think I may have been misunderstood. Too far to walk has a very specific distance associated with it for me,I believe Forrest very blatantly even gives us that distance. But the reason for my post was a response to those who felt like the phrase too far too walk was insignifigant. My point was that nothing about this poem is simple or insignificant and if these solutions weren’t multidimensional rather than single i belei e the chest would have been found year 2.”
There’s someplace that I’d rather be, but it’s…
I think he wrote his second memoir “too far to walk” because he felt The Thrill of the Chase didn’t cover everything he wanted to say about the chase & his life.
Didn’t F mentioned somewhere that “too far to walk” was a metaphor for his life?
Sorta like someone telling you – you can’t do this or that – it’s too far to walk.
The preface seems to give cred to the general area where the treasure is hidden or at least where some clues are.
The 5th line in the poem is where to begin & Chapter 5 RBIB seems likely imo.
Once he said he would like to go back to his favorite fishing hole, which I think was the 9 mile, but now it’s too far to walk.
As you know Jake, it’s not far at all.
So he uses as a euphemism in the same way one might lament, that’s a bridge too far.
Lugnutz
Comes a time in life where you want to do what you can’t.
Too far to walk
Another great book cover.
It gives the feeling of hope.
Clearly Clueless
I wonder if FF self-workshops the acronyms for his book titles (TTOTC, TFTW, OUAW). Maybe he really wanted to title one “Many Useful Days”, but didn’t want it referred to as MUD…
LOL
Or
How I Think
Clearly Clueless
Trout, Rods, and Saddle Hackles
I suppose there’s at least one person that looks for clues in the Acronyms…
Maybe someone might want to choose an acronymical NAME for themself, if he/she plans to dig under some wood. Perhaps related to the phrase
“My Underwood Digging”?
Ok FMC, I’ll bite…
Tot as is a kid, or, tot as in tater tots? Kids love tater tots…happy meal? That’s a lot of McD’s restaurants to search…even in the RM area!
“Not far but too far to walk” could very well be just 20 feet away. Imagine a narrow canyon that can easily be accessed by a ladder, otherwise you’d have to walk miles to find another way in. Imagine something like this: https://booktoursromania.com/wp-content/uploads/Seven-Ladders-Canyon-2-1.jpg
Another possibility would be a winding canyon which, if walked in, would be many miles. But as the crow flies could be a fairly short distance. https://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large/winding-river-canyon-in-remote-australian-desert-photograph-by-chris-round.jpg
Jeremiah Johnson: [Jeremiah and Caleb see a bird flying across the sky] “Hawk…. goin’ for the Musselshell. Take me a week’s ridin’, and he’ll be there in… hell, he’s there already.”
to me the most telling chapter in TFTW would be My Prehistoric Friends.
in this chapter Forrest describes how an ancient indian family watches he and a friend dig for artifacts.
I think Forrest is trying to describe a modern family at a museum watching mannekins dig for artifacts. its the mannekins who are silent, not the family. the family doesn’t stay long because they move on to the next display at the museum. Forrest portrays himself as a mannekin.
next thought…
too far to walk in pioneer days was about 20 miles a day. Midwestern towns are about 20 miles apart.
if we begin at WWWH and then the canyon down too far to walk would be more than 20 miles. canyon up is a more difficult walk, probably only 7 miles.
my guess is from WWWH to HOB is 20-60 miles down the canyon.
the distance from Yellowstone to Cody.
I guess.
I think too far to walk has to be driven. He says not too far, but too far to walk. I highly doubt it will be over 10 miles but what do I know?
I agree – can be driven, is not over 10 miles – But what do I know? – NADA – JDA
Deano and JDA- i wish i knew what do. but i dont.
Your insights into this hunt definitely put you above NADA.
Thanks – Only time will tell though – Good luck to Ya’ – JDA
I think it can’t be walked by him when he wrote that line in the poem.
Pick your transportation mode whatever it may be.
You could be floating down the Madison on some heavy loads & that would not be walking.
Also think this line is a hint & not a clue.
Would it be too far to run?
I agree. Best to do it tired.
Oh, and I did buy both books…TFTW & TTOTC…and I loved reading BOTH of them! Fenn makes me chuckle in both books with his words! Reminds me of someone I know…makes me laugh just thinking about FF’s books again even now!
To far to walk but not to far to ride a bike.
Too far to walk, but too far to ride a bike. (I think that’s what you meant to post.)
I think you have it. Somewhere between the two.
For searchers playing around with the idea that the clues point to the Green River in southern Wyoming, I’m sure you’ve latched onto pages 112 and 113 with the picture of the matchbook from the Flamingo Hotel and Forrest mentioning seeing Fran Warren singing there. Flamingo –> Flaming Gorge. 😉
I think the Flamingo has one leg up on us in regards to the Chase. 🙂
You undercooked it, Zap. Fran Warren clearly hints to Captain Kidd and Skull Island.
Jake
Hi JAK: are you sure? I think that chapter of TFTW is all about blazes:
Candle next to Forrest’s head in the illustration
SUNday
First word on top of page 113 is “torch”
Flaming-o
One could even say Fran was a “flame” to young Forrest.
Pretty sure, Zap – she’s in the movie *Abbott and Costello Meet Captain Kidd*, which features a map to a treasure buried on Skull Island. 😉
(I’ve botg wild-goose-chased the Green River in Colorado, and the lake and headwaters up in Wyoming is a lovely place to camp. I still like them both chase-wise. Unfortunately for Flaming Gorge Dam as the blaze, looking up at it or looking down from it both put you in Utah.)
(The Flamingo itself in Las Vegas is north of Santa Fe; the flamingos at Hialeah, though, are south of Santa Fe and under 5,000 feet.)
Jake
JAK: She’s also in Finnian’s Rainbow. As for Flaming Gorge, it’s just a coincidence — but an example of the kind of thing that searchers latch onto as being too exact to be anything but a deliberate hint.
I was right there with you. Couldn’t think of a Bugsy Sigel angle, so took the easy Captain Kidd shot instead.
Thought we might see if the old chain
Captain Kidd (TotC) > Gardiner Island > Gardiner MT > Gardner River WY/MT > Gardner Island > Amelia Earhart (TFTW)
was still a live wire with anyone.
Jake
(PS – she played in it live on stage, but she wasn’t in the movie)
Zap –
I don’t know who you are talking to as I don’t recall many mentions of Flaming Gorge from anyone other than me.
That are becomes more interesting because the Fenn Clovis Cache comes from the Green River valley.
And then there is all the brown stuff and navigational arrows.
My original Brown search area, unless the dinosaurs were first with Meeker, can’t remember.
Hi Lug: I couldn’t remember which searcher had mentioned Flaming Gorge — just knew at least one person had once upon a while.
Lug – curious on a citation for your statement that the Fenn Clovis Cache came from green river valley? I recall they guessed ‘near the Idaho/WY/UT border’…which is outside the green river basin…just curious if you have another source for Fenn Cache info…online is sparse…maybe I need to get my a$$ to a library one of these days..
Unless something’s come to light since the Frison & Bradley book (1999), the best educated guess places the initial discovery much closer to the Bear drainage than the Green.
Jake
Yes, we are thinking of the same story. The cache came from the large area where the three states meet. I recall that it was simultaneously referred to as in the Green River Valley, and I too thought that was odd.
The whole west of 191 doesn’t rank high with chasers.
Thanks guys, that sounds about right…I think the reason those archeology sites tend to say green river (valley, butte, basin, etc.) is that green river CHERT comes from the area…common materials used to make the projectiles. Just wanted to see what else might be out there…Jake, sounds like you’ve read the Frison book, just curious if you own it? Frison is definitely a rabbit hole I can get down, and I believe Lug turned me onto the UofWY frison institute and FF linkage…any thoughts on Lindenmeier? Since we’re both in NoCO I thought it could be a fun day trip…have wanted to visit, just hadn’t convinced myself it would be search related, just interesting. There are links to FoCo discovery museum and Denver NH museum as well, and the timeline fits perfect with him and his dad looking for artifacts, hence my interest, curious if you guys have any thoughts. There is also a nearby link to St. Gaudens as well…during my formative years I spent summers and long weekends in Laramie, my folks would meet in the middle at FoCo to share me, I know the area well, but learned a lot more in the chase (thanks Forrest!). If any interest my email is in the Wind River Canyon story under Armchair searches.
Hey-O, Tbug –
I prospected (inter-library loan) the book a few years ago, but didn’t spend much time with it – Clovis and Folsom aren’t really in my wheelhouse. My armchair archaeology is very Anasazi and Mesoamerica oriented. I’d encountered Bruce Bradley’s work in that context, so knew his name before I ever heard of the chase or the cache. (Actually knew about San Lazaro too long before I ever heard of the chase – the masks were remarked on in a paper on Pueblo religion. Craig Childs also interviewed ff in the context of artifact collecting 8 or 9 years ago.)
I’m mighty sure that the Fenn Cache won’t get anyone closer to the chest. Soapstone and the Lindenmeier site *would* make a great little (non-chase) trip.
It’s pretty sunbaked out there, so I’d consider it more an October-type opportunity than a dog-days hike – Snowy Range is more my speed this time of year. 😉
Jake
Tbug now you got me reading all the Fenn Frison stuff again.
How about this?
http://www.arrowheadology.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-55297.html
“The late Forrest Fenn already addressed the SAA, years ago.”
Forrest! you are late! And you have been late since 2015!!
Lugnutz
Finally, finally ordered TFTW and got it lickety-split quick – thanks, Dal ! Couldn’t resist some browsing and looking forward to the thrill of the read this weekend. Followed, no doubt, by stunning insight and a dazzling solution. All seriousness aside, I love to read people’s stories, hints or not, win-win.
H Alt(ernative) and C Any On . . . Down
Spelling time people
Not far, but to O
Two O’s
HO and CO
Continue as you please. Food for thought only.
I really don’t want to take the time to read through this entire blog, so forgive me if this has been discussed here.
With all the talk about JD and Catcher In The Rye on pages 11-14 in TTOTC, I found this pretty interesting:
Too Far To Walk written in 1969 by John Hersey states that it is “The sequel to The Catcher In The Rye.” (Not posting a link cause you can find the cover anywhere).
Too Far To Walk is the sequel to TTOTC. On purpose?
Coincidence?
Let’s talk
In the chapter “Concy and Me” do you suppose that the entourage in the black limousine might have been that of President Harry S. Truman?
He seemed to wear white shoes that may have been considered sneakers or “summer shoes” at the time… according to this website anyway: https://www.gentlemansgazette.com/harry-s-truman-shoe-collection/
Re-reading that chapter this evening just gave me “presidential” vibes for some reason. There was the fact that the access road was closed to vehicles, even for people with mobility impairments, and yet this black limousine shows up on the access road. It must have been a very special exception for a very important person, don’t you think?
Can anyone help me understand a passage in the book? On page 144 in the chapter “jackie kennedy – a rare lady” it reads as follows:
“She had read the flyleaf of a book I had written that spoke to my having been a fighter pilot in Vietnam. She was curious and wanted to question me about that experience, and reminded me that her husband had been the president to first send troops into that conflict – ‘advisors they were called,’ she said. It was easy to see that she had given the subject some thought.”
What I haven’t been able to understand in the above passage is the quoted phrase “advisors they were called” and how that fits into the context of the sentence. The fact that it is quoted I interpret that as meaning an exact phrase that Jackie Kennedy used in the conversation (as Forrest remembers it anyway). But is she making an aside comment that advisors were called in order to help JFK make the decision to send troops to Vietnam? Or was she saying that JFK’s advisors referred to the Vietnam War as a “conflict”?
I’ve read and re-read this passage a few times over this morning and cannot make heads or trails what that little quoted bit means exactly. Any ideas?
The troops that were sent were called “advisors” … she was correcting herself in calling them “troops”.
Thank you, Elbert Ainstein! That’s one fact about the Vietnam War period that I did not know until today.
Blex, in hindsight of having been in the Amphibious Navy during the first part of the war, I went in 1964 got out the day of the start of the tet offensive in 1967/68, advisors were the crack combat ready Soldiers, Sailor, administrators of logistical strategy, planning, defense specialist, purchasing agents etc who often scope out a focus for either advising or recommending actions, or the lack thereof. Many believe had JFK been alive we would have either left Vietnam or perhaps Nuked the Nort into submission, but his leadership being absent and LBJ/McNamara were super cautious at first then believed that we could win a jungle conflict with superior firepower, which we did execute without realizing the mistake the french had made in 1947. Indo China had a common goal, communism seemed to be their answer for economics, community spirit was subdued in favor of fear and tyranny. If a community helped US the Americans, the children of that community would have disappeared or had a limb removed in retaliation. Brutal but real if you were in the villagers shoes what would you do?
TG
Tom – To be honest, I don’t know; I’m glad that’s a decision I haven’t had to make.