Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Sixty Two

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Thanks…

 

dal…

674 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Sixty Two

  1. In life as in the Chase, the people who seem to have it all figured out are often the most lost.

    -Randawg.

  2. If your “searching partner” (notice that FF did not say “search partner”; a dog is usually
    “searching” most of the time, following scents) is a dog, there are two good reasons to
    leave the dog in a car. One reason is to prevent injury to the dog. You wouldn’t want
    the dog to step on something that could injure the dog. All IMO.

  3. Argillite,
    Thanks for the “How deep is a hole?” quote. Wondering what most people think is the reason FF mentioned it ?

    • IMO, this was Forrest’s facetious response to the question he isn’t able to answer. When will the treasure be found?….. It’s not predictable.

    • The “hole” comment has haunted me ever since my botg last month. Just about ten foot from where my lines had crossed on the search map there was a perfectly square hole a little over a foot wide and a bit more deep. Grass had grown and there was no fresh diggings around. Just a square hole out in the “woods”.

      Yea, baby! i poked, pryed and doinked as deep as my redneck trekkin stick could but hit nothing bronzy. Just knew it was the stash pot. Stood up and it looked even better than before so had to dig a bit with my gloves and poke somemore. Nadda.

      Sooo, deep or deeper?
      Every nite i ask myself… “How deep?”

      • Smoky, I came across something a bit similar once and the first thing that popped into my head was “oh no, I’m too late”. If all the clues line up perfectly is that a possibility?

        • That was exactly my first thoughts but seeing no fresh dirt from someone digging and it’s not been announced of anyone finding it, i have just kept the search going on my other “fer sure” solves. That hole was the perfect size and 200 foot from the parking spot too.

  4. I’m so confused! What is this confusion about the DESERT?

    First we have this quote,
    “If it comes back, I’m going to grab a pocketful of sleeping pills, take a treasure chest filled with treasure and a copy of my bio; and I’m going to walk out into the desert.” f

    Second we have this quote from Mysterious Writings-June 2014
    “Are you willing to say whether the place of the treasure chest is the same as the one where you had previously plotted to have your bones rest forever?”~anonymous
    Dear Anon, I feel somewhat disadvantaged since you chose to not identify yourself but I will answer your question anyway.
    Yes it is. f”

    And thirdly, we have “”If your solve is in the desert, get a new solve, and remember, much of the Rio Grande River is not in the Rocky Mountains.” f

    What? If he originally planned to walk out into the desert, and later told someone that he hid the chest where he originally planned to hide it, but then suggests it is not in the desert? What does this mean? Did he uses the word desert to mean something other than a dry environment with little rainfall?

    • It is most likely embedded in a wooded area that is easier to walk through the desert into than dodge timber and boulders, imo. Idk because I still haven’t found the spot I’m looking for.

    • Flutterby- Forrest’s words confuse you?
      maybe then, just use the book and poem and forget everything he ever said.
      ever.

      • Dodo, I agree. I think I said something to that effect on this blog not that long ago. English is one thing. Fennspeak is another.

        • thanks suzyQ, is also good to remember Forrest was a salesman…of the highest order, art.

          he’s still got it! (salesmanship)

      • and remember, Forrest’s words are from a guy who hopes it isn’t found for a thousand years*.

        *see: Dal’s blog homepage, paragraph “More Caution”

      • My answer is almost the same but amended to say don’t let anything outside the book narrow your search only use it for confirmation. There are many types of deserts and I think he was referring to the deserts in NM that aren’t a part of the Rockies.

      • I think there is something to be learned from comparing these three quotes about the desert. I’m not sure what it is yet, but I’m going to think on it some more.

    • Hello Flutterby. Ahh, yes, the gentleman’s words can be quite confusing. Different possibilities may be just a figure of speech as Eaglesabound mentioned. Another may be to look at the word and consider the possible ways of pronouncing it. Desert could be the dry environment, or desert may be to be alone, AWOL as in military. Then when you hear AWOL, one might hear “a wall”. One of my solves placed me in the desert and when his comment came out, gosh, it was so hard to let go of this area. Still in the back of my mind in case I misunderstood what he was saying. Thought about it this morning before going on the blog because of it.

    • Hmm, maybe he would have to go through the desert to get to his spot in the mountains.

      Chances are though he is just having fun with the questioner.

    • Flutterby,

      The first comment is rather old. At the time, many thought is was fenn ‘hinting again’ it had to be a ‘clue’ cuz many think he is feeding clues left and right… so the comment went into overdrive. IMO, repeat my opinion, if or even when fenn puts out something he wants to, it will not be as direct as ~and I’m going to walk out into the desert. My example of a type of ‘telling’ if you will, is; I’m not ready to say the chest is not in water… then later fenn [ more or less had to ] say the chest is not underwater. I doubt he would have ever actually stated that if it wasn’t for obsession/stupid actions of searchers.

      So to the third comment [ which again, it seems fenn had to throughout some common sense safety thinking ] ~ If your solve is in the desert, get a new solve… This was well after fenn already stated what he would ‘see’ standing at the chest, and there was no mention of prairie dogs or cactus or dry cracking landscape in that description.

      Then we have 9 extra ATF, supposed clues, from the today show… later fenn said they are ‘useless clues’ that sparked a family feud on all the blogs. Basically I’m suggesting, fenn is not going to be handing out information as blunt as the thought ‘in the desert’ but if one does read over the years of information… you can see earlier idea, comments, that ‘should have’ given us pause to think about.

      LOL, I wonder what would happen if a year from now fenn says [hypothetically] the comment of; hoB will lead you ‘right to the chest’ could have been said / implied about any other actual ‘clue’ that a reporter or anyone else would ask about.
      Another example is the comment about the treasure is not associated with a structure. Many thought that this was only relating to where the chest lays in wait. Yet from second hand information [ I’ll call it a reliable source ] fenn ‘seemed’ to imply hoB is not as well. Ok lets go back to the first comment; it doesn’t directly say “clues” yet we have comments the clues will get you closer to the treasure. Common sense say [ even thought not directly stated ] clues must be associated with the treasure… no structures for any clues is the implication. Only for years searchers only considered it to mean the chest exact location…

      For me there is nothing confusing about those three or some other comments that relate [ if one is patient enough to look for other related information and do a check and balance of a logical thought {and is some cases, we may not have enough info/ATF’s to do that, at this point in time} ] … the only confusing part for me is why so many simply want to jump on a single ATF as; fenn telling us another clue, when he has stated long ago…paraphrasing… good references tools are the book, GE and/or a good map and “all the information to find” the chest [ I’m gonna call that the “path to the chest” ] is in the poem.

      End of commentary….

      • Seeker,
        As usual, your logical thought process is helpful. I do think there might be some insight into FF’s use of words in these three statements. If it doesn’t tell us where the TC lies, it may help us to understand how FF uses words to describe places. So, I’m just going to think it over for a bit with the advice from everyone who chimed in on this discussion.

    • g’morning Flutterby –

      ff frequently uses the mountain/desert combo in his writing and interviews.

      – His “bells and jars are buried . . . *in the mountains and the desert*”
      – “When I am *in the mountains or in the desert*, the last place I want to be is on a trail.”
      And others.

      This one, though, has a very particular context –

      “If your solve is in the desert, get a new solve, and remember, much of the Rio Grande River is not in the Rocky Mountains.” f

      This comes from a kind of first draft of ff’s “Safety First” guidelines, his response to the unfortunate Pastor Wallace’s fate in June 2017.

      At the exact same time, a father and son died of heat and dehydration hiking around Carlsbad NM. It was not at all Chase-related, but it was big news in the New Mexico (and the ‘outdoor recreation’) press.

      https://www.nbcnews.com/news/weather/father-son-hikers-found-dead-new-mexico-s-sweltering-carlsbad-n775281

      ff surely took notice, and included it in his precautions.

      Jake

    • The desert is sand. Maybe sandstone?? There is always another link to something when he gives clues. I don’t know where or when Mr. Fenn said this, but he said something to the effect of things are not what they seem. It was in a video interview, but I can’t remember which one. I have watched numerous videos of his. So when he says desert, it implies something linked to a desert, like sand, but not actually the desert.

    • Flutterby … searchers have been taking FF’s verbal comments in a literal sense for years. Some searchers base almost their entire solution on some random comment he has made..

      The reason searchers have put so much time into trying to dissect every single word that comes out of FF’s mouth, in my opinion, is that searchers have given up on the poem and are grasping, desperately, for some supposed “clue” that they think can be found in his verbal comments, as a way for searchers to bypass the poem.

      Ken (in Texas)

      • Good thoughts, Ken.

        Only the poem is needed to solve. Hints in the book, ATFs, etc., certainly help toward affirming…but, the solve can be achieved with poem alone. That’s a fact.

      • Ken in TX,
        I’m not relying any solution on ATFs. But I did have a solution based entirely on the poem. It had me in the Red Desert. But when checking this solution against the ATF’s I came across the conflicting desert statements. I think these statements do rule out the Red Desert- or at least one does. Actually that is a plus for me because I’m afraid of desert snakes. Would rather face a Grizzly with a can of bear spray. However; when I use these ATFs against another solve, they support the other solve. Even the statement that FF would take some sleeping pills and go out into the desert supports this other solve even though it is not in the desert.

        I do think the ATFs can help identify a solve that won’t work.

  5. Zap –

    Carryover from old OandE

    You were admonishing a chaser that doesn’t see the parallels between Totem Caper and The Poem.

    I would say your approach is too analytical and not creative enough. When I read the chapter I can see it as a Disney Cartoon. I see the tall kettles of brown gravy morph into mud pots popping and shooting into the air. I see the his hands morph into the canyons of the rocky mountains. I see the faucet water striking the dishes morph into the waterfall crashing into the rocks. I hear the orchestra, I hear the crescendo!

    You just see obvious associations between similar words.

    Start at 10:23
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX7tq2elZPE

    Lugnutz

    • Lugnutz,

      That is what I’ve been trying to say and couldn’t express! I like your description of “When I read the chapter I can see it as a Disney Cartoon. I see the tall kettles of brown gravy morph into mud pots popping and shooting into the air. I see the his hands morph into the canyons of the rocky mountains. I see the faucet water striking the dishes morph into the waterfall crashing into the rocks. I hear the orchestra, I hear the crescendo!”

      I see it too and I’ve referred to it as a story within a story. There are so many places where FFs words are an exact description of something completely different than what is on the surface. It goes deeper! IMO

      • Flutter –

        The difference between us is that I don’t see those images in my mind and say that they map to the geography of a certain place.

        The story should make you think of an area of Yellowstone or relay that Forrest was thinking that way when he wrote the story. He is making those associations, but that doesn’t mean they are hints that help with clues or locations.

        His stories are like this. I would maybe say he can’t help but describe things this way.

        He has lead an interesting life, but even that life, isn’t as interesting as the story in his head.

        Lugnutz

        • Lug;

          Please be careful of “Yellowstone Fixation” Every story. every ATF etc does NOT relate to Yellowstone. JMO, but I think that at least a couple of the stories that supposedly took place in the Yellowstone area probably happened elsewhere – JMO. JDA

          • JD –

            I am just saying that each story is told in a way that makes the reader think of something else, not always Yellowstone.

            When I read Tea with Olga I picture the haggard witch poisoning the child that has entered her hidden home. I see the witch has power but the power fades with age.

            When Fenn is rifling through his wife’s spice drawer I see the barrels being unloaded at the Army Fort or the Dock. I hear the Indians charging. I see the banner flying.

            When I read about Cody the bull pulling the car off of it’s frame I see the Settlers of Cimarron charging across the barren West to stake their claim.

            When school children cross the street strung together by a rope I see the Wheeler Mountain Pioneers claiming there view of the valley below.

            you get the picture

          • You do have an imagination – I will give you that. Now, if that imagination can help you work out a solve that leads to Indulgence – THAT will be the trick. Good luck – I do believe that imagination will help, but, like most things in life, moderation is key – at least for me – JDA

        • Lugnutz, funny that you should mention the “Cody the bull” story.
          My search hike took me to a place that had some similarity to
          to the place where Cody pulled the car. But there weren’t many
          trees where I was. There was cactus. All IMO.

    • Hi Lugnutz,

      I may be obtuse but I didn’t feel admonished by Zaphod’s comments, I felt he was giving me a nudge in the right direction on things that needed nurturing. (I’ll have to go back and read it again). I was saddened by Zaphod’s dislike of gravy and wonder if I should share my recipe with everyone?

      Great link by the way! thanks for that. I’d love to be able to sketch/draw like those guys, what a skill to posses.

      (P.S. does brown gravy qualify as a.r.?)

      • Argillite: don’t be at all bothered by my dislike for gravy. I’m a very picky eater, and as such the list of things I won’t eat is 100 times longer than the list of things I will. I simply felt a kinship with Forrest in this case in our shared hatred of brown gravy. Then again, Forrest seems to detest cloves and I think they smell and taste wonderful!

        • The cloves story, funny you should mention it. Here’s what my brain had me looking into yesterday…I was thinking what I really needed was some kind of hint and then I couldn’t help but notice that “hint” is one of the words in the poem. The first thing that came to mind was that maybe hint of riches (Hinrichs’) new and old might relate to Eric Sloane’s bibliography (Forrest makes mention of Sloan’s books on P6). So naturally the “Reverence for Wood” stood out as we’re all trying to find some meaning for “in the wood”. Googling around I found this from a review of the book “…He talks about sitting at his table, eating breakfast, and musing over all the stories the wood could tell. The scratches near the latch where a farmer must have lit a match for a pipe, the scratches of a dog jumping on the door, the nail where a wreath may have hung…” That reminded me of Forrest’s mention of the scratch and dog in Sweet Fragrances. Maybe I need to track down that Sloane book and give it a read? (I also learned that a lot of Sloane’s books showed Fenn Galleries as the publisher). Rabbit holing probably but fun rabbit holing.

  6. I posted this to the Reddit (yes, I lurk there too) page this morning, but as I lurk here far more often, I thought I would share it here too.

    Every time I read the poem (which is several times a day most times it seems) I find myself getting into a mind set that FF is talking to me. While not a solve, as there are no actual locations in it, here is what I see/hear/think when reading the poem. Maybe, just maybe it will help someone visualize their search area a little better. It helps me to do so. Sorry it’s so long, my copy and paste skills are a little lacking apparently.

    “Alone, I went and hid the treasure.

    I hid it a secret spot from my past.

    Start your search in a place where warm water stops flowing.

    When you get to the spot where the water stops, look for a canyon, its not far,

    but it is too far to walk to.

    Go into the canyon below the home of Brown.

    You’ll see when you enter the canyon that this isn’t a place for the timid

    The end of your search is getting closer

    You wont have to paddle up the creek because it’s nothing like it once was

    All that remains is rocks and the marks on the canyon walls from where the water used to be.

    There’s a distinct mark on the canyon walls, i’ll call it a blaze

    Look below it, the treasure is right there! It’s a beautiful place, but don’t stay too long,

    just take the chest and go back to your car.

    So why did I have to go hide my treasures for people? I know the answers. I’m out of strength and energy

    to talk about it now.

    So listen to me and hear my words, the treasure is worth what you endured to find it. Since you were brave enough

    to go into the wilderness and find my treasure, it’s yours now, you earned it.

    • I think that by rephrasing it you’ve likely lost the meaning of the poem. The words were chosen and arranged very specifically for reasons we don’t know yet. IMO of course, but I would be surprised if the clues still exist in your rewording of it.

      • I completely understand what you’re saying. One note, while I did “interpret” the lines a bit differently, I did not re-arrange them. Same order of the poem, from start to finish.

        I’m one of those people that has a little “movie” playing in their head when they read a book and this is what I see in my movie when I read the poem.

          • Are they as good as the original G.I. Joe and Transformers!?!?!

            Please say yes, please say yes, please say yes…

          • Ken: very rare moment, but I d finitely disagree with your comment!
            I think and guess, the more you live FF‘s life, either short periods or complete summer seasons, and the more you follow his everyday footsteps, the deeper you will dive into the real meanings of the poem‘s lines! You will paint the big picture by just hiking the Gallatin, fishing, staying overnight in that area and … AND reconsidering one special piece of the puzzle that will complete the big picture.
            The result will indeed look like PT‘s ideas…

            I do not share all points mentioned above, but the method, the look-through-FF‘s-eyes method of reading and transforming the poem is 100% my thing!

            This is my pure and maybe childish opinion…

            Best, TLo (next flight over the pond coming soon)

          • The irony in the fact that you used, “Childish” …

            We are all aware (or at least should be by now) of what FF has said regarding them in relation to the search!

          • TLo…my comment was just a joke in response to Provoking’s “movie” comment. It really had no bearing on how I read Fenn’s poem or his many ATF. Carry on…
            but…I do see cartoons!

          • Ken: everything‘s fine! I was just picking up the joke about a method I like… 🙂

            PT: childish……. could be the way to go, right? But take care! Don‘t let those „you-are-just-looking-for-shortcuts-guys“ get in your way!

            Cheers, TLo

    • Provoking_Thoughts,
      I think the poem is deeper than you give it credit for. I think the poem is similar to his writing style in his stories. The stories often have an underlying story that has deeper meaning than the surface. IMO that is the case with the poem. It is deeper than the story on the surface.

      • Flutterby,

        This was one of my first thought processes about the poem. I too, now feel exactly how you just described. Full blown, deep down the rabbit hole. Heh.

        • Just because you can see a deeper meaning doesn’t mean it’s a rabbit hole. I agree that there are many rabbit holes. But, until you explore them, you can’t really know. And, in my opinion, too many people dismiss an idea before they fully work it through. You have to chase some rabbit holes to prove that’s what they are or you will never find the hiding place of the TC. Afterall; this is a chase and its gonna require some chasing. IMO

    • Welcome to this restful place and thank you for coming to join me. I know it wasn’t easy and I’m glad you made it. as you see, the task is simple and the path forgiving once you have your footing.

      I made the same journey myself and it has humbled me. I feel that you have honored me by striking the path and forging your mark.

      From here I won’t go on and I want to give up my secrets so that you may go on and be prosperous. Don’t look down an never look back.

      If you should ever think of me on some future afternoon, show kindness to a stranger and ring my bell so that I will know you have done it.

  7. Just a shout out to Cynthia (and Zap) for posting that 2006 interview…what a trove of info!

    I had a non-search curiosity about what FF was doing after high school and A&M debacle…this interview he stated he 1) still went to Yellowstone each year (later he then says, even during AF years and even in Germany he still made it to Yellowstone every year…except when his dad got his masters degree in 1939, they didn’t go that year) and 2) he attended Temple Jr College to play basketball (he didn’t go to class). The details about his early AF years were interesting…he was a radar/radio mechanic for 3 years before pilot school (another hobby of mine is tube amps for guitar – I play bass, he mentions this was before transistors ‘so you had to fiddle with tubes’, just made me chuckle as another subject I would chat about if I were to ever meet the man). Also, that he joined up 3 days after the start of the Korean war, he talks about it very nonchalant, that it ‘was just something to do’…patriotism and politics were different back then obviously post war, but interesting commentary.

    Also it confirmed my thoughts from my first Armchair solve https://dalneitzel.com/2017/07/06/wind-river-canyon/
    that the Fenn family traveled north to the park by way of Cody, 30 miles/hr, 1600 miles, 5 days to get there…gas rations/stamps and bad tires so you couldn’t go fast. One of my search related theories is that they would have stopped often to get out of the car and check out history/touristy stuff…seems plausible when you have 10 days out of your summer vacation to find some non-Yellowstone ‘special’ places, just sayin…I already liked WY, but even more so…

    I think Jake Faulker you commented on the previous O&E thread about Denver, I believe what he said was he would meet Fred Stockton (?, the book guy) at his store in Denver <> for those that don’t know Colfax is a street that crosses the entire city of Denver from East to West, is actually highway 40 and goes by the capitol building…essentially one of Denver’s ‘main’ streets. It has always had lots of funky mom/pop shops many with long local histories…I’ve been in CO since 1982, but wasn’t much of a book collector so I was not familiar with the book store. In terms of search relation, Colfax (is equivalent to 15th ave for most of the city except the wonky downtown area) is only a couple blocks south of the Natural History museum (on 17th/Colorado), so my bet is that bookstore was not too far from the history museum and FF could go to both on the same day depending on what else he was doing (IMO)

    Some other interesting lines from FF, when they asked him about his other collections and he says Indian antiques… and then clarifies PLAINS INDIANS…plenty of rabbit holes to go find there. Also, he seems to minimize his art dealer days, from a passion point of view, he

    Also, he said ‘I hired George (Frison) and (the other guy, I can’t recall) to write that book for me, about the so-called Fenn Clovis Cache’…he has a ton of pride with that…’one of the finest examples of clovis points’ or similar (sorry my quotes aren’t exact). For me his passion for these subjects come through very well both in his facial expressions and speech, granted, this interview is in the context of the BBHC, but still, sheds some light on important things to the man.

    And already discussed, but I loved it…when he is asked what ‘exciting things he is going to do with the rest of his life’…he pauses, and for sure a twinkle is seen, but then he gives his dad’s quote “if you want a good laugh, tell god about your plans’, then he discuss his ‘rules’, and one of his unwritten rules…he doesn’t do anything longer than 15 years, ‘just because you know what you’re doing, is not a good enough reason to keep doing it’. and then to all you NM-ers he “DROVE 891 miles yesterday to get to Cody” and would go 3-4 times a year (YNP/Cody)…lots of great info in this interview, IMO…back to Canasta

    • Nice Tbug, yea, the proximity case for NM is out the window as are any doubts about road trips to Cody/YNP. Considering the trove of information in this 2006 interview it has been relatively crickets on this blog. Its clear to me now where his heart is, and always has been, since he was a child. Dave

    • Tbug, with class D’s and neo’s how many trips does it take from the car for an 80 year old man?

  8. Two things that befuddles me in the Epilogue illustration of TTOTC (among many other things):

    a. The lumberjack, still holding his ax, is resting his boot on one of the tree stumps after his work was recently done. Where are the fallen trees?
    b. He is looking up in a crescent moon where a peaceful dove rests on its nest. Shouldn’t Bessie be there instead? [tongue-in-cheek]

    • In my opinion, this illustration is supposed to represent ff the summer he spent logging when he was 16. Dal has posted the interview with Forrest and he speaks very fondly of that summer. I believe that he found some peace out there , cooking his trout , packed in mud and baked to perfection and making pine needle tea in a broken coffee pot. He spoke of hard work and surviving by wits , but I believe a young man such as Forrest thrived on it and learned a lot on that trip. This is just my interpretation, of course.

    • the trees have been cleared away? representation of a clearing?

      23 stumps…there are 24 lines in the poem…you are at the end of the TTOTC and hopefully are at the last line of the poem?

      as for where he is looking, I think he is looking at the “I” in the text…ditto, pages 37 and 41…but could just be coincidence how the illustrations lined up with the text…

  9. anyone see the new video of the idiot in YStone taunting the bison in the road? maroon !

    • Yes, and after my many trips through Yellowstone I can say I feel bad for the people that are a mile back in traffic waiting so this escapade could occur.

    • There seem to be a lot more people documenting their attempts to win a Darwin Award these days. Thankfully they only show us their failures.

    • Haha and we wonder why we have laws?! It only takes one crazy apple…unfortunately!

    • Wow:
      “An Oregon man was arrested Thursday night after getting caught on video earlier this week “harassing a bison” in Yellowstone National Park, officials announced.

      Raymond Reinke, 55, who was journeying across multiple U.S. parks throughout the week, was taken into custody by Glacier National Park officials, a news release from Yellowstone officials said.

      “We appreciate the collaboration of our fellow rangers in Glacier and Grand Teton national parks on this arrest. Harassing wildlife is illegal in any national park,” Yellowstone National Park Superintendent Dan Wenk said.

      Since late July, Reinke was arrested multiple times, officials noted in the release. On July 28, law enforcement rangers at Grand Teton National Park took Reinke into custody “for a drunk and disorderly conduct incident,” after which he was booked in jail overnight.”

      Look like the buffalo was getting fully into his ‘Buffalo Jump’ warm up exercises from P66. Good thing no one tried to lasso him, the buffalo I mean.

    • This video makes me wonder if when ff said he could see ‘animals’ from the treasure location if he might have included people in that definition. He is definitely loose and probably shouldn’t be.

    • Yeah. Someone saw it. Y’all have questions; someone has answers. I
      suggest that you bring up videos of things “maroons” do in all of the 4 states
      that are being searched for the Fenn TC. I don’t know whether the “maroon” in the video was — when the video was created — in Wyoming, Montana, or Idaho. I don’t think he was in Colorado or New Mexico at the time.

      And this reminds me of another story of idiocy . . . Two huge cargo ships
      collided with each other. One was carrying red paint, and the other was carrying violet paint . . .

      the survivors were marooned! All IMO.

  10. Travis Brown,
    Deciding that the TC is in Big Sky Country based on a pic in TTOTC makes no sense. The poem has to be able to get you there. It just happens that there are a couple of things in the poem that might suggest it’s in Big Sky Country. But, the poem has to lead you there. Personally, in addition to other things, I believe that “heavy loads and water high” is a reference to clouds. So potentially, there are a number of possible connections for that. I think Big Sky Country is one possibility.

  11. Opto,

    You asked, “Why replace the chest with books? Maybe that is a hint?”
    I don’t know that it was a hint. Seems like a simple solution to gather a few books from around the house and stack them to fill the space where the TC was so that nobody would notice it’s gone.

    But, then, there is another possiblity. Don’t know how many people realize that in TTOTC, when FF talks about books, its raining. Somewhere he mentions that he just wants to hold a couple of books for a little while. Personally, I think the books represent water and there is a reason he wants to hold them for a little while. I think I understand the connection.

    IMO

    • “Time is a river and books are boats. ” Opening page of Dan Brown’s book THE SYMBOL. Not his original words, a quote of someone else. Im too tired to look it up and verify right now. G’night. OS2

      • OS2,

        What are books used for in part? The books in part is used for learning, others are fictional, memoirs, biographies, etc.

        When F says something to the effect you have to learn where warm waters halt. So I think this is what needs the most attention to study WWH. I believe F’s collection of books are used primarily to learn.

        Just a thought,

  12. OS2,
    I don’t think Dan Brown’s book is a clue to FF’s thoughts. I don’t think time is a river. I think that in FF’s writing, time is recorded in rock & soil formations. I also don’t think books are boats I think books are knowledge which increases wisdom, but geographically books are represented by rain which is held in FF’s special place. It is the rain that nourishes this place..

    • Flutter, … I didn’t think anyone would take ‘Books are boats’ or ‘Time is a River’ as literal statements. Ot that Dan Brown’s book is a clue. Only that symbols tell stories … like the designs on those clay pots in Fenn’s den. What do you suppose the bison skull with straw stuffed in the eye stockers means? Or the incomplete circle pattern on baskets?
      Good luck in figuring out the clues, or the blaze.

      • OS2,
        I mistunderstood your post. I thought you were literally saying that Time is a River and Books are boats. Thanks for clarifying that you were were only suggesting symbols that can represent other things. You are right. There is a lot of symbolism in FF’s writing.

  13. So many great routes/solves have emerged from the Chase! Would be kind of cool when all is said and done to compile a number of them and publish a new hiking trail book around theme of the Chase, perhaps with proceeds going to Mr. Fenn’s preferred charities.

    Maybe Mr. Fenn, Dal and Collected Works could collaborate on such a project.

    • Interesting idea – thanks for suggesting it. I vote for you to be in charge of collecting all the data 🙂 JDA

    • LingeringDoubt,
      I think that is a very good idea to collect the solves and put them into book form. I like to read about the various ways that people interpret the same thing.

    • It’s not complicated. The great solution would be for Dal to add a “Search Histories” section that allowed searchers to archive their searches written up in a defined document format with inserted images as needed. MS Word would work just fine. Searches could be titled by generalized GPS coordinates and search date for easy location for review. No content review or editing capability would be necessary or desired (read only). I’d love to read about the past adventures of our fellow searchers – -kind of Rick Steves in the woods.

      • Your right its not complicated. Here on hoD on the sidebar, Other’s Adventures, check it out.

        • Yep, those get thrown in the bucket….solicit others to contribute their’s as well. Editors would have many, many to select from…pick cream of the crop, 20 (5 from each state) plus The One, and go to work. Or something like that:)

        • Charlie,
          Exactly – – but with GPS coordinate titles and no “Comments” section. Archive it and leave it for all to enjoy.

    • I would support and contribute to a charitable compilation of routes/solves after the fact. Why not recognize the effort of searchers in support of a worthy cause? Good idea although premature at this point.

      • Mac,
        The only cost would be the fees for the website where the search narratives are being stored. If Dal isn’t interested, maybe one of the other search blogs would be. If I weren’t so darn old, I’d tackle it myself. The format would be easy to define with respect to organization of search titles and content. No policing would be required and the material becomes the property of the website administrator once the chest is found. If he/she wants to publish a book later, so be it. I just did a test MS document search using GPS numbers at the level of XX.XX, YY.YY (without the minus sign) and it works just fine.

        It’s never too early to get started on a project like that. Some searchers have abandoned certain areas and would probably enjoy citing their adventures in those areas. It may or may not snowball. Just thinking.

        • FMC did exactly this a year or two ago, Adrian, though focused more on sharing, mapping, and evaluating Where-Warm-Waters-Halt fails and proposals.

          There was a little initial buzz, but FMC did most of the collecting and contributing (I never added any, but tried to comment on as many as I had anything useful to contribute).

          The trick for traffic, I suppose, is either to assemble a small team of dedicated contributors to seed the site, or to attach it to a site (like HoD) that interested folks are already visiting.

          Jake

          (I don’t mean to speak for you, FMC – I’m sure your own take would be more substantive than my “interested bystander’s” observation – but I did want to acknowledge the honest effort and work you put into a similar endeavor.)

          • No worries, Jake. You just saved me from typing it all up.

            Fwiw, my site was just for identifying/discussing/eliminating wwwh as I thought there were too many divergent paths after to try to account for… The possibilities for each wwwh could be discussed within the thread for each wwwh.

            If you search, the map of identified wwwh is still probably accessible somewhere. I know I posted it on Reddit at some point too.

            The long and short of it was that no one participated, though perhaps the community has grown enough for it to work now.

            Good luck.

          • Sounds like FMC’s had a bit different purpose…assembling solves to identify where it’s not while Chase in progress.

            My thought above is really about post-Chase…just publishing a nice quality paperback of assorted hikes developed in the course of pursuing the Chase….not a website, database, but an actual book one could buy similar to many other trail/hike guides.

            It was just a thought…who knows, maybe it will be pursued.

        • Hi Adrian, I am in the process of creating a site and am considering adding something like this. It is just a matter of creating it in a user friendly format really.

          • Aaron, after mulling over the subject a little more, I opine that the only format required is in the title which, IMHO, should include in order:
            1. GPS coordinates of assumed chest location.
            2. Authors short title for his search description.
            3. Date of search.
            Some searchers may want to be brief and factual in their description and others may want to explain their rationale more extensively or in a different style of narrative. It would be interesting to read each searcher’s interpretation of the poem, but that should flow from the narrative to the extent they are willing to provide that information.

            I am in the process of writing up my first BOTG experience and will have to decide where to post it.
            Adrian

  14. Was reviewing some notes tonight and came across this quote.

    TTOTC p 147 Epilogue
    Fenn says, “Now I feel that my father is sitting on the edge of a cloud somewhere watching. If he knows everything about me he’s pretty busy lighting candles, some of them on both ends.”

    I think that if FF’s father could literally be sitting on the edge of a cloud somewhere, lighting candles on both ends, then the candles would be lightning.

  15. OLIO

    Franklin, Aaron, re “animals” from the closed Odds and Ends: on Jenny Kile
    Mar 22, 2017 reply from FF, he mentioned the chest is where Long Tailed Ermine
    would start turning back into weasels and the bears would start peeking out. So
    there are two species to look for (in Spring, at least).

    1 F, major bummer about the busted knee…hope ya can git it fixed up purty good
    real soon.

    Ronnie the Scot. Is he still stuck in the woods / wood?? I haven’t seen any update.
    Anyone know? (apologies in advance if it’s been posted already)

    J Diggins. Is she OK, what with all the fires going on over there?

    MCB, MCB, come back to the 5 and Dime MCB, MCB, or to the HOD at least!
    I miss following your progress with the poem and with English. You can ignore
    the nattering naysayers, you know, as well as the nattering naysayers you know.

    psst Free beer at Dal’s place? Pass it on!

    Thanks for any info, wishing everyone “chestular” inspiration.

    D C

    • D C,
      Well, I was baffled as I read your post about long tailed Ermine turning back into weasels. What the heck? So I googled it. Interestingly, they are called Ermine in winter and then they change color in spring, which also happens to be when bears are peeking out. In springtime the Ermine are called weasels again. http://www.lewis-clark.org/article/1906

      Any chance you can post the link to where FF made that statement?

    • @D. Crockett re: J Diggins and NorCal fires, been wondering about her….from what I hear and see most of the small towns where she is from (lake county) have evacuated, it’s far from contained….I’m next door in Mendocino (west and up wind)….it’s crazy around here…firemen from all over…..Hoping she and her family are safe and well.

          • Hi everyone. I’m checking in to let you know that yes, I am OK. We evacuated our home in the Mendocino National Forest in the hills above Lucerne, last Sunday. Subsequently, my business partners home and our mutual business had been destroyed. As yet it is unconfirmed, but I am fairly certain by the videos I’ve seen, my home is most likely gone too. I’m ok, I’m alive, I can rebuild. Everyone has been so kind and thoughtful, thank you all so much for keeping me in your thoughts and prayers. I’ll keep you posted on things as I hear. Love you all! 🙂

          • Oh my Jdiggins. I cannot possibly imagine what you and your family are going through, but at least everyone is safe. Years ago we had one close call so The stress this must be causing your family must be tremendous.

            God bless and know the HoD is pulling for you.

            Pinatubocharlie

          • Will someone please post a link to the GoFundMepage (or similar page) for jdiggins when it is available?

          • Pay attention to this page Linda. Things are planned and there will be links that direct you when all is set..

        • I am so sorry to hear about this! Is there anything we can do to help Jdiggins?

          • Jdiggins,
            You have such a great spirit. You could be a poster girl for what makes this country so great. I am pulling for you. f

          • Hi veronica, thank you. As yet I am unsure what the final outcome will be, but I will let everyone know as soon as I do. 🙂

          • Forrest, that is very kind of you. I have to thank you, not only for your kind words, but for being the reason I now have a whole new family group of wonderful, caring people.
            I’m grateful in ways beyond expression. 🙂

          • I am truly sorry to hear of your losses.

            I agree with Forrest.

            It is your indomitable spirit that will see you through this trying time!

            Lugnutz

          • So sorry for the loss of your property, Jdiggins. Glad that you and your family are safe.

            Godspeed,

            Windy City

        • Jdiggins-I know it will be a while before the extent of the damage is clear, but please keep us posted. I have some money saved up for my next trip that you are welcome to have. Going to search seems incredibly selfish while you and your family are facing such a huge loss. You seem like such a positive lady, just continue to keep your head up !

          • No! I cannot, and will not take money you’ve saved for botg!!!
            I am overwhelmed, and quite frankly, darn near speechless at how wonderful the chase community is/has been! Everyone keeps telling me to start a gofund me acct, but i…i just don’t know what to do right now. I really don’t know what the future holds, but I do know that all the love and support I have received from my chase family is more than words can express. Thank you, everyone. Thank you so much!

          • Jdiggins- I am originally from east Texas , and my family was displaced when hurricane Rita came along right after Katrina , leaving devistaton along the way. Our home was destroyed and I remember how hard it was to start over . My heart goes out to you !

        • jdiggins, my heart goes out to you and and all those in the path of the fire. I am so glad you were able and had time to evacuate.

          • If anyone knows how to set up a gofundme for Jdiggins, I will kick in. I don’t know or I would do it.

          • I think other opportunities to help JDiggins will be coming along shortly…
            It takes a bit to get organized..

          • In the spirit of the chase a quote by the wise C.S. Lewis…“You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.”

            Claro que si!

            I will be happy to set up a GoFund Me…but I am not on socail media so I will have to rely upon the community here to appropriately share. JDiggins please share an email with me so I can begin the process.

            Julie

          • jdiggins………..look at it this way……..we have all appreciated your posts over the years and would like a way to show that we care.

  16. About Ermine, Weasels & Bears,
    Either I misunderstood your posting DC, or else you misunderstood what FF was saying about this. He did not say that the TC was hidden near Ermine, Weasels or Bears. I found the statement. What he said was that if the treasure chest could tell us how it feels about being hidden, we would hear that it is just waking from winter hibernation. It is springtime and that is also when the bears awake and the Ermine change color and are known as weasels while their fur is darker during warm months.
    No statement that these animals are near the TC. But I did love FF’s descriptive language.

    • FB,
      Point taken, if FF was just describing things that happen in the Spring
      in general, with no implication that there are bears and ermines / weasels
      at the hidey spot. It could be a red herring…not too many guarantees
      in this chase, I suppose. Glad you found the link.

      DC

  17. Charlie shared this link few days back – http://www.lat-long.com/Montana/

    Here’s another tool, Citymelt, someone somewhere might find useful (deviates from the Google E, maps reference but oh well):
    http://www.citymelt.com/county/Wyoming/Park+County-WY.html

    The example link is for Park County, Wyoming but you can change it to your search locale. The most informative areas would be the “Area Features” portion. Another useful portion would be the “Museums Near..” portion so that you can arrange side trips between searches.

    • ooops, just realized the “Area Features” is not as complete as a good map, use it for general purposes only. Stick with a good map.

  18. I’m currently in West Yellowstone through Tuesday if anyone wants to meet up. corepuncher at gmail

    • Hey you know honestly, after being out, I can safely say that the threat of grizzlies is the biggest thing to be “brave and in the wood” for. Perhaps that is a hint. What else you gonna be brave for? Chipmunks? A scary tree?

  19. J. Diggins,

    Been there, done that (10/20/91) total loss also.
    It really sucks. I wish you and yours strength for what comes next.
    Please keep up your B complex intake; stress depletes it.

    So sorry for all the fire victims everywhere.

    DC

  20. Jdiggins,
    Glad you and your family are safe. It feels like our entire state is on fire. We are in the Central Valley not far from the hwy 120 corridor into Yosemite. No where near the Furgeson Fire but choking on smoke from it and the Donnell fire. California needs rain!

    • Rain is a long way off in this part of the world, but you already know that, right? Firefighters actually held a news conference in late spring predicting this would happen statewide. Maybe we need to start rationing gasoline like thd U.S. did when Forrest and his family were driving to Yellowstone, but for a completely different reason.

    • I’m so sorry for all of y’all out there! We are in a drought here in central Texas or else I would chase all of the rain your way! I sure hope you get rain soon.

    • We need to stop poisoning Mother Earth. She’s gonna kill all her children. Its like a Greek Tragedy. Her next brood may be smarter cockroaches & plastic eating viruses.

  21. Jdiggins,

    I don’t know what happened to my first post so I’ll try again.

    I was very saddened to hear of your loss and cannot possibly imagine what you and your family are going through right now. At least everyone is safe and sound. Many years ago we had a close call and the stress of the unknown and what lies ahead was tough to handle. You’ve got a great attitude and though I’m sure the stress is high now, it will get better.

    Take advantage of the various support groups out there and rest assured that those of us here at the HoD are pulling hard and strong for you.

    Please take care and God bless you and your family.

    Pinatubocharlie

  22. Here is a hint I think Dal could include in his tips/cheat sheet section as very helpful:

    When you use the “street view” placement option on Google Earth, and you look at a mountain as if you were standing at it’s base, Google earth lies to you (in a way), plan on that mountain being twice as tall looking in person, and grades even steeper 🙂 (I believe the cause is because the view in Google Earth is a wide angle, where our eyes create a more realistic blend of ‘normal’ angle with pano/wide to the sides of our view) and even a telephoto effect directly center of our view.

  23. Adrian, there are a number of different ways this can be done. I’ll keep your suggestions in mind. Thanks

  24. Hello Dal. In response to your comment about “treasures bold” from a couple “Odds-n-Ends” ago, it may be a possibility. Thoughts go to the story in TTOTC with Ms. Ford when Mr. Fenn had crossed his legs when she walked by. Offhand, I do not recall if the following is from the same chapter, but he mentioned about girls giving him trouble. Can’t forget about him feeling like thirteen. I believe some things in regards to these may suggest “change(s)”, or the “switch” we’ve read his stories.

    This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

  25. Hi Guy’s,

    First of all I would like to say that my heart goes out to everyone and their families that have been caught up in the fires.

    I can’t even imagine what some of you guy’s are going through, please try and stay safe.

    We’ll guy’s that is me back from my seven day trip to the Rockies in search of Fenns hidden treasure.

    I am not going to say where I was apart from at least 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe.

    I didn’t find Indulgence, however I am happy with my solve so far and that I will be making a second trip to the same location.

    Having been my first big trip outside of the UK, I can honestly say that I had a fantastic seven days, it went in far to quickly.

    I took no photos or videos, but have all the memories, I met a lot of lovely people from all over the world along the way.

    I seen some beautiful scenery and animals but I’m glad to say no bears, the weather was very hot every day.

    I can honestly say guy’s that you have a beautiful country, my family and friends that know me know that my heart lives for Scotland.

    However I must say guy’s that I would be proud to call the Rockies my second home.

    Before I went on this trip, I got plenty of advice on the proper footwear and clothing to take with me, along with first aid kit, torch, whistle etc.

    I watched dozens of videos on the behavior of grizzly bears, and also how to use bear spray.

    I would say especially to all of you guy’s who have never been out hiking in the Rockies, be well prepared for all situations.

    I started to prepare 12 months before my journey, I was as prepared as I could be.

    I even bought two bear spray canisters with holster, I opened one and fixed it to my belt, the other one I kept in my backpack still in it’s packaging.

    This meant that I was able to return in unopened and get a full refund, thankfully I never had to use it.

    It feels like a dream now, but these treasured memories will live with me forever.

    That’s the thrill of the chase.

    Stay safe guy’s

    Ronnie

    P.S
    I never ever took any risks that would endanger my life, Forrest has always said that Indulgence is not in a dangerous place.

    • YEA for you Ronnie. So glad that you had a good and enjoyable trip to our fair land. Glad you did not need the bear spray!

      Glad that you are pleased enough with your solve that you contemplate returning.

      Next time, take some PIC’s and videos

      Stay Safe JDA

    • Ronnie,

      Good to hear from you at last. Just one question: did you ever ‘fess up
      to your family why you came over here or is it still a subterfuge? I won’t tell.

      DC

      • D.Crockett,

        I told no one, I just got on a plane and went.

        My family and friends think that I was working in Inverness for the week.

        I will tell them eventually.

        Stay safe

        Ronnie

    • Ronnie: sounds like you had a grand time, even sans Indulgence. That you were worried about and prepared for bears is a bit of a tell: you weren’t in New Mexico or Colorado. (Nobody arms themselves with bear spray/mace for black bears). Also: are you sure you aren’t originally from Ohio? You wrote “I seen” which is a Midwestern grammatical oddity, not something I’d expect from a Highlander. 😉

        • I’m curious whether people are even allowed to use bear spray against black bears. They don’t allow it in many places in California. It’s illegal to carry it in some places. Black bears leave you alone if you leave them alone. But I am terrified of Grizzlies so I believe in using bear spray as needed with them.

          • REI has a very nice and fairly comprehensive article on carrying and using bear spray:
            https://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/backpacking-in-bear-country.html
            Yellowstone National Park has an article about using bear spray…and a video:
            https://www.nps.gov/yell/learn/nature/bearspray.htm

            Finally this…many years ago I bought my first two canisters of bear spray…being who I am…one was for practice, since I had never used the stuff before and the other canister was for protection. That evening I decided to practice with the first canister. I removed the safety pin, pointed the nozzle down wind and sprayed…I wanted to see how far the cloud would go…how it would spread…in other words I wanted to know something about what to expect if I ever had to use the stuff…
            I watched the spray and cloud travel about 35ft in front of me…saw how it spread and it gave me some confidence in how long it would take for me to arm the canister and what kind of distance it would be effective within…but moments after I sprayed a quick breeze came up in the opposite direction and blew that cloud right back into my face.

            It didn’t affect me horribly right away. I had a few seconds to find my water bottle and start rinsing my face…but it got quickly and steadily worse. First a terrible stinging in the eyes and then I couldn’t breathe. I was gulping air trying to get some into my lungs…meanwhile I was blinded…could not see anything and it was painful to even open my eyelids…
            That scenario lasted for about 20minutes…then settled down into less severe eye pain…loss of vision and a bit less breathing difficulty for about 45mins…
            The pain eventually stopped after about an hour, my breathing was back to normal at about the same time but my vision remained frighteningly blurry, rendering me unable to protect myself for over two hours.
            That was a relatively bad experience from which I learned about just how dangerous bear spray can be if used improperly…
            Treat that canister like a weapon..
            Keep the nozzle down range and never spray it at people because the effects are severe pain, temporary blindness and inability to breathe.

          • Hi Dal, Thanks for the tips on bear spray! Wowser, that sounds like it was awful. Will be good if you ever wright a book about all of the things you learned from the Chase. I think we all have some lessons learned. Whoever finds the chest will have earned it. Dave

          • Dave…that experience predates the chase by a good ten years…maybe more…perhaps 20 years ago. I know at the time Bear Spray was illegal in WA State and I had to get it in Idaho…

        • Weapons and Bear spray are useless against Mountain lions, (They are called Mountain lions in the west, not Pumas), Mountain lions do not stalk humans unless they mistake you for a deer/prey (you are jogging or biking, or are a smaller child), and in that case they ambush from behind, you wouldn’t see them to aim at them EVER. If you do see a mountain lion, you are already safe. in that case they are more afraid of you.

          So a weapon in either case is useless, just walking towards a mountain lion is enough to scare them.

          and in general, your odds of ever seeing a mountain lion in the Rocky Mountains are slim to none when hiking, and infinitesimal still smaller to be attacked by one.

          To my knowledge there have only been 5 cases in the 4 states in the last 200 or so years, 3 of them were children that were not in eye sight of adults. 1 jogger, and 1 case where the person was washing them selves close to a river, also attached from behind.

          remember, that is in the last 200 years…

          And in the case of Black Bears, I would consider it cruel to use bear spray on them, If you look at a Black Bear wrong they will run off. And about the same odds of being injured by a black bear.

          Grizzlies on the other hand, well they don’t seem to be afraid of much. And humans are fair game. so come loaded for bear, pun intended.

          • Writis, True, chances of a Puma, Mountain Lion, Cougar (all the same critter) attack is rare. I would still feel more comfy with the bear spray and 10mm with me.

            Godspeed,

            Windy City

      • Zap – In Colorado, I routinely see people backpacking with bear spray. I’m always a bit surprised because I’ve never felt the need – but everyone has their own comfort level. I worry about the “town bears” – Durango had 37 documented black bears within city limits last year – not the black bears in the wilderness. Backcountry guides for trekking/climbing etc don’t generally arm themselves, but that is not universal. But drought, climate change, loss of habitat, and lack of traditional foods available etc is definitely changing animal behavior. The animals seem to be extremely salt deficient; they are also ravenous for fresh charcoal from campfires. Deer behavior, at least in the San Juans, has changed radically in the past year. It’s getting weird out there. So, each to his own when it comes to bear spray!

      • Bright an early this mornin’ I seen the wee people. Guarding a pot o gold they were. I seen them clear as day.

    • Ronnie…very exciting that you had the opportunity to experience an adventure such as this! That is amazing in the grand scheme of it all. Every hiker should be aware of their surroundings and the critters that live there. Most will avoid human contact if given the chance…but not always. Safety comes from preparedness and staying aware.

    • Hello Ronnie. I’m so happy to hear you had a great time with memories to last your lifetime. True treasures.

  26. Writis –

    If he isn’t here at the HOD or at MW, he probably doesn’t know anything about the ATF comments.

    There are very few of us who focus on these statements and assign value(s) to them.

    Lugnutz

  27. My son is a Marine stationed at Camp Pendleton. There was a fire there yesterday and his barracks had to be evacuated. It was very close. It got to 600 acres, but it is out now. I was so worried yesterday, but seeing what J. Diggins has lost and seems likely will lose, it makes what I went through yesterday seem trivial. Her spirit and good outlook here, as always, gives my heart hope. Way to go girl!!

    • Kathy W: there was/is a huge fire near Saddleback Mtn. today north of Pendleton. The smoke has dominated Orange County all afternoon.

  28. JDiggins, I have plenty of room here in Colorado if you and you family need a safe place as you figure things out. Reach out to Dal for my contact info – it would be my honor to host you and yours!

    • aard-
      No change at all just moving the Forrest Interview videos on this site off Vimeo and onto YouTube…
      Vimeo Pro cost’s me about $250/yr. I want to get out from under that fee so Chris is moving all the videos to YouTube and relinking them. That’s a lot of videos.
      Should be transparent for users…a joy for me and a pain in the bucket for Chris…

  29. Does anyone have the quote from Mr. Fenn that states something like, just stay 20 miles away or something close to that. Thank you in advance for any replies!
    -B

    • “Too Far To Walk,” page 200:

      “I’ll happily share my national forests with you, but please try to stay at least twenty miles away.”

  30. At the end of chapter 37, “treasures galore,” in the book, “too far to walk,” Forrest writes: “I’ll happily share my national forests with you, but please try to stay at least twenty miles away.”

  31. D.Crockett,

    I didn’t tell anyone that I was going to the Rockies, I just jumped on a plane and went.

    My family and friends think that I was working in Inverness for that week.

    I will tell them eventually.

    Stay safe

    Ronnie

    • jdiggins Glad your okay and hope family and friends are also ,everything else can be replaced my prayers are with you

    • Jdiggins,

      I am very sorry for your situation with the loss of a place you were very comfortable with. I believe you are the very person that will overcome your many great losses. Tenacity is in your favor, along with the kind and concerned folks here on HOD, this family here I am most certain will help out the best that they can in many ways.

      Just keep us up to date so we can help and support you.

      God Bless you and yours.

    • Jdiggins, this is the time you need all the XOXO’s you can get!
      Thanks to all the Fenn Family, you are in our prayers!

  32. Guy’s

    I wouldn’t go anywhere in the Rockies now without carrying bear spray.

    I’m glad I never had to use it, however it did give me a sense of security.

    Stay safe

    Ronnie

    • Never had to use it either, but was tempted to use it on the mosquito’s in Yellowstone. Mosquito’s cause more problems in the park than any other animals….

  33. FYI
    No one has dropped the ball on the GoFundMe for jjdiggins….that effort has yielded to another in the works that I believe Dal alluded to.
    ♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡

  34. Well Dal,
    That is a scary story about bear spray. How do you keep the spray down wind if the bear is up? Then what!

    • FB – spray is a deterrent…just like dal experienced Bears don’t like it either…in fact with olfactory senses 20-50,000 times humans it is immensely worse for them. I think if you had a choice you’d take the potential blinding/pain over an attack, right? Bears are scary for sure, but really unless you are between mama and her babies, or between a fresh kill and a bear, or just generally surprise them (and then do something stupid like turn/run), you’ll be ok.

      I’ve seen blacks in CO/WY camping/hunting, they are pretty skittish and usually just looking for an easy meal. I had one griz encounter (about 150 yards of open ground between us) and have seen people out of their cars doing what I would never think of with a griz nearby (one with cubs and one was skinny, alone, scared and idiots were practically chasing him). My one encounter was less than 1 mile north of Pahaska Teepee near east entrance of the park, this was about 7-8 years ago now, was there for my cousin’s wedding, on one of the off days, my dad, another cousin and myself decided to fish the north fork of the Shoshone, we fished all morning (got skunked of course), then on the hike back we stopped on some nice river bends and were surprised by my dad hootin n hollerin about something, we looked up and saw a brown charging at the two of us in the water…luckily he either caught wind of us or realized there were 3 of us and he turned and ran over the hill. Either way, was quite the story and we were definitely not prepared for it (no spray)…my dad grew up in Worland, lived in Laramie for decades, hunted several areas in WY and had never seen a griz. If I was a MT/YNP searcher I would carry spray. That said, I think all searchers need to remember, the most important thing about going off-trail, into the wilds…if you can’t take care of yourself (and that means in ANY scenario), you should consider how to prepare…a companion is the best way and don’t try and be sneaky…make noise, keep your head up, don’t make bad decisions worse. Good luck!

      • Sounds like bear spray kits should include a full face gas mask. Dal’s account brings back fond memories of gas mask training that I received in the Air Force. In a tear gas filled room, we had to take off our masks, circle the room three times, shout out our name, rank and serial number at the door, then march out the door into fresh air. Lessons learned.

        • Ah the gas chamber.I got to the point I could sleep through CS grenades in open air in the army.

  35. I know many of us are eager to help with JDiggins’ awful plight. It appears that we will all have a collective opportunity to give starting sometime Wednesday (tomorrow) evening. KPro, Forrest, and friends are putting something together that we can all take part in and the beneficiary will be Ms. Diggins. So please be patient a little longer …
    I am anxious to see what they have cooked up…
    I will put a new page up with a link to the site once KPro announces it…

      • Hi JD, I believe Kpro runs another blog type searcher site called the hint of riches (THOR). Dave

          • You’re being too harsh on yourself for not knowing what could have been googled.

          • I did Google it and got: K-Pro

            The K-Series Programmable ECU (K-Pro) consists of a hardware modification to any K-Series ECU, plus Windows software which allows you to re-program the ECU and datalog sensors.

            Not the desired answer – Thant’s why I asked – JDA

          • JDA…you can find the blog at the bottom of this page, under Treasure Websites and Blogs.

          • JDA, no one on his blog would ever think of you as being dumb.

            Godspeed,

            Windy City

          • JDA,
            Whenever I do a Google search for anything related to Forrest Fenn I always add his name to the search & that usually gets you much better results pertaining to the chase.

            When I Google JDA, I don’t get you in the results but when I Google – JDA Forrest Fenn, I get you.

            And no you’re not dumb but all of us here including me make dumb statements at times.

            kpro forrest fenn

    • In case folks haven’t heard this complex of two fires, ‘the river fire, and ‘the ranch fire’ are now the largest in CA history….

    • Thanks Dal, I am looking forward to helping this fellow searcher in need. Dave

    • My prayers are with my buddy jdiggins… thank you Dal, Forrest and Kpro for all you guys do for us searchers. Just like with Renelle and Randy and some others , you guys (along with fellow searchers) kick in and help in a time of need… THANK YOU !

      “ in life it’s not what you get that matters, it’s what you give”

      Anyone that can help jdiggins and her family, please do so…..

      Jdiggins, our hearts are there with you my friend…

    • “But Donnie got in a serious swivet and wouldn’t speak to me for a while, except to say that our unfortunate adventure was ill-conceived, dumb thought out, and I was over-rated like my horse.”

      Looking for Lewis and Clark.
      Somewhere in Montana 20Sep 1946

      • swivet, [swiv-it]
        noun
        1.a state of nervous excitement, haste, or anxiety; flutter:
        I was in such a swivet that I could hardly speak.
        >>>>>>>>

        I believe “a state of nervous excitement” fits Mr. Fenn’s MO as it leaves the possibility of a negative interpretation as well as a positive one and could be applied to all parties involved in the TTOTC, including himself.

        IMO,

        Regards,
        CJ

  36. I find that when I read someone’s solve, I seldom get past WWWH before I quit reading, and there is a reason for that. Too many solves IMO rely upon information that could not have in any way been arrived at with only the poem and the map with hints from TTOTC. I certainly am in the camp that believes it is important to remind ourselves of alternate meanings of words, and it does not hurt to read history of a place in the event that something might jog our minds about geographical formations that might help us out. But, if something in the reading gives us an idea that “could have” been arrived at had we stared at the map long enough, then that works for me. If reading about a place gives us information that is essential to our “solve” but does not come from the poem and can not in any way have been arrived at with the poem, the map and hints in TTOTC, then the solve can’t be right. No matter how entertaining or creative it might be, it can’t work.

    Not really knocking anyone’s solve here, but I know there are people who are looking up water temperatures and what type of fish live in areas, and various other things like that. I totally get why the Firehole is a potential WWWH while I do not think that it is the correct one. But, it works because it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that fire is warm (or hot) and hole might indirectly suggest the water is stopping when it falls into a hole. Like I said, I don’t think it is right. But, it does fit the rules for using the poem, the map and hints from TTOTC.

    I know there are others who have come up with HOB using similar technique. I just don’t understand the solutions that can only be arrived at by extensive knowledge that can’t be obtained or even guessed at with only the poem, the map and the hints from TTOTC.

    IMO

    • Flutter, That’s the great conundrum of the Chase. Somewhere (and I paraphrase) FF said you will not know that you have the right WWH until you have the TC. That sure seems like there is no way of determining from the book or poem what or where the WWH is. It’s just a big random crapshoot. But I play anyway because it is fun to think even that statement is a hint. OS2

      • OS2,
        And yet, FF has also said something to the effect that the person who figures out the correct solve, will proceed with confidence. So basically that contradicts the statement you just shared. You are right that it is a conundrum. I continue to chase because it drives me crazy that I haven’t figured it out yet.

        • Flutter, I think A GOOD solve (not necessarily THE CORRECT solve) gives the searcher a wonderful feeling of confidence. It’s a great feeling, very addictive. Experience is the leveler. Getting up smarter after failure hopefully builds foresight. Sometimes not.
          Good luck… I like your posts. OS2

    • Just to point out, FF said ‘and/or a good map’…not necessarily ‘the map’, not sure if you mean the TFTW map, personally I do not limit to just that one. While I agree with you that some solves are explained in weird ways that seem to rationalize a lot, but HOW they first started looking at their spot may have simply been a simple curiosity then they researched and then came up with more compelling reasons…I do agree, the ATFs need applied after that effort and to an extent I agree that a link to the poem is better than ‘I started researching this thing and found my wwwh’

    • Flutterby: I’m with you. I stop reading a solution the instant it’s clear the searcher is looking in New Mexico or Colorado. Every WWWH I’ve seen posted was little more than a dart throw, and most are based on key information not found in the poem. (Ojo Caliente is one example: specialized knowledge based on one story in TFTW, though “River Bathing Is Best” was on Forrest’s blog long before it was in his second memoir.)

      IMO, WWWH can be determined from the first 5 lines of the poem and nothing more.

      • Zap, Flutterby, OS2, if all little Indie had was a good map and the poem she could certainly find WWWH, and second clue? (CANYON DOWN) IMO, it may be as simple as 32 degrees, or does that border matter since it is made of little itty biddie lines———– since 32 is the most southern Latitude of the 4 states left in the search?

        Just sayin.

        TT

        • Each clue does move one closer to the TC, right? I think the semicolon is a bigger hint that a border matters………- – – – Border Line Biddies anyone? Consider where that Latitude of 32 is and the next border is where the ; semicolon is, a change of direction, not a pause, like a comma. Punctuation is oh so important……period. Borders matter and all poems have em so do all painting….drawing nigh.

          TT

        • TT: “Each clue does move one closer to the TC, right?”

          I wouldn’t assume that. The route may not be direct.

      • Zaphod,
        I do think the first five lines of the poem are essential to knowing WWWH. But, I believe there is a confirmation later in the poem.

        I know that River Bathing is Best was on the blog long before it was in FF’s second memoir. However, there are references to it in TTOTC. Same story. Just different details IMO

  37. Has anybody here ever considered that some of the photos at the top of these hoD blog pages may contain hints? I think that is the case. Not huge hints, though. As always, IMO.

    • TF;

      The photo’s are selected by Dal, I am quite sure, with no input from Forrest, so how can they be hints? Just ankin’ JDA

      • Well, I don’t know if FF has any input on the photos at all. But, I do think that one of the pics that used to be on here (or maybe still is) reminded me of the fact that FF didn’t like to carry a brown bag to school for lunch. The same photo reminded me of another quote (don’t know where it is at the moment) in which FF said “there are no down sides”. I think he was referring to the chase itself, but I also think it refers to the place the TC is. IMO

      • i see hints in every where i go and in every thing i do so i might be a little bit to consumed that makes me a fennhead i guess. good day to all poor titan, hes a good sport about it

  38. I have never had the opportunity to go fly fishing but since joining the Chase 4 years ago, I do read about it quite often. It stands out to me that when anglers speak about their experiences, it’s not about catching fish necessarily,but just being out there .Getting away from the grind and reconnecting with nature. To some it’s almost a religion . Watching and tracking a specific fish and studying its habits and movements and wanting that fish in particular .In my opinion , The Thrill of the Chase may be a metaphor for fishing , but what do I know? I’m still trying to think like a fish.
    If I ever find the chest , I fully intend on spending some time remedying that lack of fishing.
    Until next month, it’s back to the grind for me.

    • Why wait until you find the chest? Never know if you’re given a tomorrow. Go out and experience it now.

      • Unfortunately, my work schedule does not allow for much free time, and I am not near fly water. Something I am hoping to remedy. But you are spot on about those tomorrows, pdenver. Thank you.

  39. Sean on July 22, 2018 at 6:22 am said:

    Just wondering…anyone else have something they carry with them on searches to replace the chest if they find it?

    Sean, and others,

    JDA replied that he had a kids lunch bucket. I

    I am sharing what first came to mind when I started this search – a Rochester Quadrajet. For you non-motor heads, that’s a spread bore carburetor found on many GM cars from the 70s and 80s. If I had a dollar for every one of them that I have rebuilt, I’d have hundreds of dollars. The kicker is this – I have no good idea why this came to mind. One of my fellow searchers that is good at interpreting subliminal thoughts can chime in at will. Since then, I have decided against that.

    When I do head out, I will be bringing along a box of similar size, much like what JDA said, with a pad of paper and a pencil inside so others can find the original hidey spot. Not very original, but certainly less quirky.

    • swwot, was it an 800 cfm? I never found one of those with the right serial number when I was restoring my ’73 SD-455 T/A.

      • Sorry Oz10, the particular one (still setting on the shelf in my garage) is off a mid 70s Chevy pickup. Probably only a 650 cfm – “A dime a dozen.”

    • Since carrying out the chest and baubles is a 2 trip journey, why not just leave the chest? Its worth a pittance compared to the contents. Leave a pencil & notebook in it for subsequent finders to jot down their names and dates. If you must have the chest to complete some “Las Vegas Display” you have in mind, a good old metal fishing tackle box would be a nice replacement.

    • swoot- your subliminal thought for the carb was probably because the pot metal of a rebuilt carb takes on a bronzish hue. couple that fact with the many intricate parts inside, wah-lah… bronze chest.

      I think my thoughts not yours though.

      • dodo – that’s certainly within the realm of possibility. I suspect it had more to do with the fact that there are fewer and fewer of us left in the world that have the knowledge to tweak and tune them. In a way, Mr. Fenn has put his “carburetor” – what he knows intimately, in the hidey spot. I’d like to think my life is more than the boiled down intricacies of a Quadrajet.

        Maybe, that’s part of what Mr. Fenn is trying to get us to see – that life is not about the stuff a person gathers and leaves behind, but rather the impact they have on the people in their lives.

    • Hello swwot. Your discussion about carburetors would be something the men in my family would know. I had to look up what you were talking about. I see a connection or two, but since I don’t know these types of things, I’m probably wrong. DOVE.

    • Yes swwot!

      I carry a solar powered landscape light on a stake in my backpack that I intend to leave in the spot with the hope that it will assist a passing frog with a meal from the all night snack bar it will create and just be a light to whomever may need one out there in the night.

  40. The boonies is a perfect place to leave a Quadrajet. Replaced a few of those myself after my rebuilds just prolonged the pain. A 10×10 hole would be just about right.

    🙂

    • Lol Smokeybaer!

      When I raced stock cars back in the day, they changed the rules mid-season one year and made us give up our Holley 650’s and replace them with quadrajets…we called them quadrapukes, lol.
      It was so hard to get them to feather…you had two speeds: wide open and dog mode and nothing but burps in between, lol!
      New Smyrna Speedway, highbanked asphalt 1/2 mile oval track racing, 52 weeks a year! Burp, burp, Blam!..checkered flag.

  41. charlie on July 13, 2018 at 5:57 pm said:

    I know f didn’t give us the info when he hid the chest, but since he said 79/80, to answer the question correctly, wouldn’t that put the date at 08/22/2010? He knows how old he was, he knows whether or not he was 79 or 80. So to not be deceptive, he would answer that 79, or 80 if not on that date. If on that date, it’s possible he didn’t know the exact time when he was hiding the chest, and, by knowing what time he was born, (let’s say as an example 2:30pm), if he hid the chest at 2:00pm, from example, this puts him at 79 years old still. If he hid at 3:00pm, then he would be 80. So the answer of being 79/80 fits the date, and his best guess at which time of day. It would be interesting to ask his family if he was around on his birthday on 08/22/2010, or if he was on a vacation fishing.

    Charlie, and others,

    Does anyone know the exact minute on Mr. Fenn’s birthday that he was born? If he was born during the day, he can honestly say he was both 79 and 80 on the very day he was born, and hiding the chest. I do not know when in the day he was born – others may and are free to chime in.

    Hope this clears up some of the “was he 79 or 80 when he hid it?” questions.

    • Does it truly matter if he was 79 or 80 years old other than searchers shouldn’t go where an older person couldn’t go?

    • Swwot: we already know the treasure chest was hidden as of July 2010, so it wasn’t a case of uncertainty over time of day.

      • I missed that one Zap, when did he say he hid the chest on July of 2010? Side note, what did you think of the guy they caught in regards to the Holy fires? Just wonderful. If he thought MS13 was going to get him on the outside, what are his chances in jail? (thoughts of American Me come to mind for this guy’s future).

      • Hi Charlie: not “in” July, *by* July. Could have been June 2010, but no earlier. Irene Rawlings had lunch with Forrest in July 2010, and at the time of her lunch the treasure chest was already hidden.

        “When I was down in Santa Fe in July of 2010, … we had lunch together and he said he’d hidden a treasure box, a box full of gold and was just finishing up a memoir of clues and how to find it.”

        • My pleasure. For those who haven’t heard Irene’s podcast, it was on Boulder, Colorado’s KBCO-FM way back in November 2010, which makes it one of the earliest if not THE earliest media mentions of the Chase. Here’s a link to the podcast: https://player.fm/series/kbco-fm-podcast/forrest-fenn

          (A couple years back JCM noted that this podcast was missing from the “Media Coverage” page here — I think it would make a worthwhile addition given how soon it came out after TTOTC was published.)

          • Hi Lugnutz: that’s another podcast interview that could be added to Dal’s “Media Coverage” page. As you point out, it’s even earlier than the November one by Irene Rawlings.

            I think it’s interesting to note Irene’s early involvement with promoting the Chase, coupled with the fact that she lived in Colorado. So news of the Chase wasn’t restricted to just the people of Santa Fe, or even just New Mexico. It was already multi-state news the month after the book came out.

        • Carrying out some further forensics, I can narrow down the date even further. Irene was on Mary-Charlotte’s Santa Fe Radio Cafe show (by phone) on Friday, July 9th, 2010, talking about her new book “Sisters on the Fly: Caravans, Campfires, and Tales from the Road.” In the podcast for that call-in (I can provide a link if anyone’s interested), we learn that Irene’s book-signing at Garcia Street Books in Santa Fe was for the following Tuesday — July 13th. I’m betting the lunch with Forrest was either on that Tuesday or a day either side of it. So that backs up the chest-hiding date to some time prior to July 13th. My proposed June 20th hiding date (and the theory that led to it) is looking better and better. 🙂

        • Call me crazy…I think worrying about wwwh may be more important than when exactly Fenn did the deed.

          • Hi Ken: for any searcher who hasn’t figured out their WWWH, I agree with you — knowing or narrowing the hiding date is of little use. At most it could be used to shoot down a spot (e.g. if your solution took you to 10,000 feet at a location that is impossible to reach on the date Forrest hid it.)

          • Ken: when are we going to hear about your botg. I’m curious. Can you share with us where you will start what state. What is your WWWH? I’m just curious your here everyday in and out and have no to my seeing posted any of the above? Your so incitive every single day can you share with us where you have came up with all of you knowledge.? I’m super curious oh of course that’s JMO. No offense just asking.

          • Travis…I said call me crazy, not a know it all. All I will say at the moment is that I am still working on my plan…and not talking smack. My comment was a sensible one under the current circumstances.
            Zap…a searcher can never be too sure.

          • Hi Ken: after 4000+ hours spent on the Chase over 3+ years, I’m afraid I’ve removed as much of the uncertainty about my WWWH as is possible for me. Recognizing that 100% certainty is unachievable, I not only don’t worry about it, I don’t even think about it.

          • Zap…*time* may be an element that *seasons* a searchers efforts, and the ability to *adjust* I believe will be the key to success. Counting hours and years spent, or searches made, probably will not be inclusive in the winning recipe.
            I often read a few recent posts from a couple of the more reputable blogs and noticed one of yours a couple of days ago. It was your * full disclosure* about the sequence of your solving wwwh [after]solving your second clue that caught my eye. Preceding that was your warning comment about not following the *puzzle makers* instructions. You also commented that you were maybe an *anomaly* and that you *should* have solved wwwh first. I do not see how that makes much sense in light of all of the years of comments from Fenn on how to solve the poem.

          • Hi Ken – I agree with your statement: “*time* may be an element that *seasons* a searchers efforts, and the ability to *adjust* I believe will be the key to success.” Where we differ is in our opinions about what elements to adjust. If you’ve got the right WWWH, adjusting it would clearly be a mistake. I’m guessing you would argue that since we get no feedback from Forrest, you can’t know whether you have the right WWWH, so its adjustment must always be a consideration. I counter that it would be impossible to “nail down” the correct starting point if it couldn’t be recognized as correct by the would-be solver. You can’t nail down something without it being self-evidently correct.

            “Counting hours and years spent, or searches made, probably will not be inclusive in the winning recipe.”

            I disagree. For instance, if a person first learns of the Chase today, they are not going to be picking up the treasure later this month. This is not a weekend problem. I am confident that the person who finds the chest will have been at this for years, not months, and they’re not going to find it on their first BOTG trip.

            “I often read a few recent posts from a couple of the more reputable blogs and noticed one of yours a couple of days ago. It was your * full disclosure* about the sequence of your solving wwwh [after]solving your second clue that caught my eye. Preceding that was your warning comment about not following the *puzzle makers* instructions. You also commented that you were maybe an *anomaly* and that you *should* have solved wwwh first.”

            I still stand by those statements. My brain is wired for pattern recognition a bit more than most, which is why discovering comets, asteroids and meteorites comes easily to me. I spotted such a pattern in the poem (keyword), and not long after made a connection to “For Whom the Bell Tolls,” which led to solving (in my opinion) a clue out of sequence. I don’t expect others to follow the same path nor recommend it — it was a fluke. Having found my keyword first, I should have solved WWWH first. But my pattern-recognition skills are stronger than my poem riddle-solving.

          • Hi Zap, for me, there has been an inverse relationship between confidence and experience when it comes to ff poem solving. A couple of failed solves will do that. If your confidence is rising with experience, kudos to you. I don’t begrudge confidence…just not sure I could ever have the amount of it I had on my first two solves. I do feel confident that it is in the Yellowstone area…especially after watching that 2006 video. I am trying to solve the poem in that region now…but whatever solve I come up with…will I truly be confident? Doubt it. My lack of confidence probably won’t stop me from making one more BOTG try though. Dave

          • Zap…thanks for the feedback. Our thoughts do not differ in the idea that time and experience may help. My point about physically counting or keeping track of said time or searches really is just semantics…and in that sense is what I was talking about. Someone may come along and think the right things right out of the box…although I suspect that will not happen.
            My primary point was… against all odds and Fenn’s recipe for success, you claim to have *nailed down* the first clue beyond doubt…{after} solving NFBTFTW. Every comment from Fenn explicitly states {starting/solving} the first clue is a must…or you *have nothing*. This indicates that the subsequently solved clues are wholly dependent on a process that cannot be out of order. This seems to call into question your methodology and/ or your *keyword*. A word that is key, quite likely is different than a keyword…no? This is just conversation Zap…nothing more. I mean…instructions are instructions, right?

          • Ken –

            Do you understand that Zap says he didn’t solve WWWH first, but we must.

            In other words we are dumber than he.

            He said we are poor puzzle solvers, (collectively).

            He also completely drops the idea that what he says is opinion when he is over there. He believes he and only he is correct.

            To me, if EC Waters can see the holes in your sailboat you might consider a more thorough investigation before you put out.

            IMO Lugnutz

          • Hi Ken – point taken on the irrelevance of actually counting hours spent or trips taken. it’s an OCD thing for me — I’m a numbers guy. It can be handy sometimes — for instance, because I tallied each hour I spent in the deserts hunting for meteorites, I could manage my expectations. It took me 40 search hours to make my first find; another 20 for the second. After my first 50 meteorites, I was down to under 6 hours per find. So by tracking those hours, I was able to objectively measure my learning curve.

            “My primary point was… against all odds and Fenn’s recipe for success, you claim to have *nailed down* the first clue beyond doubt…{after} solving NFBTFTW.”

            Not quite. (See my post today to Lugnutz). The first success was the keyword. Figuring that out put an immediate end to the mind-numbing visual raster-scanning of thousands of topos. NFBTFTW came next, and there is absolutely no way I would have solved NFBTFTW without that keyword, just as WWWH can’t be solved without it. (All in my opinion, naturally.) I just wasn’t thinking the right thoughts as to how that keyword would give me WWWH.

          • Lug…I am not making fun of Zap’s comments, I am just trying to understand how they even make sense with the given information available. I know everyone sees things from a different perspective…but I think Zap’s *telescope* may have been swapped out for a kaleidoscope. Just kidding Zap…I always like your ideas, even though we differ.

          • Lugnutz: if you’re inclined to hitch your wagon to the intergalactic rabbit holes of E.C. Waters, then it’s no wonder that you find it hard to accept any of my ideas.

          • Zap…still does not compute, even though you added that you figured out the *keyword* first, then NFBTFTW, THEN wwwh. I’ll go back to Fenn’s insistence that wwwh must be figured out first…and then the rest of the clues. He has said that dozens of times…and even much earlier than the word that is key statement. A word that is key is most likely not a *keyword*…especially given how Fenn said it.

          • Ken — when it comes to *solving* the clues in the poem, Forrest is uniquely ill-positioned to judge what’s easy and what’s hard because he knows the answers. Puzzle designers are often surprised at how their puzzles get solved by others in unexpected fashion. I did exactly that on one of the 6 stages of Richard Belfield’s “Can You Crack the Enigma Code?”

        • I, too, say thanx, Zap. You have a lot of background knowledge, which to many seems trivial. But to those of us still learning all there is to know about the chase, it is appreciated when shared.

          • Thanks Swwot: I’m convinced whoever solves Forrest’s enigma is going to be someone extremely obsessed with the Chase. It’s not imminently solvable by a “weekend warrior” or newcomer. I think one of the most surprising things about the Chase is that after nearly 8 years, people are still searching in all 4 states. That is the sign of a tough, very well constructed puzzle. Either that, or an unsolvable one. 😉

          • * * * * Zap observed – “I think one of the most surprising things about the Chase is that after nearly 8 years, people are still searching in all 4 states. That is the sign of a tough, very well constructed puzzle.” * * * *

            I bet that only a very few people have *ever* searched in all 4 states.

            (And yes, I know that’s not how you meant it. Maybe you’re ahead of the pack, maybe you’ve run off-scent?)

            Any judgments about the construction quality or brilliance of the puzzle are wild speculation, pending the revelation (if ever) of the One True (where-the-lines) Cross.

            Jake

          • Zap,
            I just wasn’t thinking the right thoughts as to how that keyword would give me WWWH.
            IMO, The keyword or the word that is key, whatever you like to say, does not help, tell, or hint of WWWH. It does however let you know you’re on the right path. The first paragraph tells you two things. It contains the information to solve for the keyword & it helps get you to the starting spot. To me the poem first tells me where to start, then it starts over from there.
            -B

          • CORRECTION
            IMO
            sorry, the poem is a riddle that tells you where to start, then it starts over. The first paragraph alone does not tell you where to start.
            -B

  42. The Chase is starting to remind me of an old Bogart movie! the Caine Mutiny..Who Took The Strawberries??

    • A mystery? Trust in the Chase? Greed? I’m hoping you’ll be able to help me understand why the Chase is being compared to this, please.

      • I was just reading some of the previous posts–Over analyzing dates- minutes-birthdays. Just seems like some mild paranoia setting in..LOL I am following Forrest’s direction and reading some of these for entertainment…

        • Yes, there might be some who would consider them as entertainment. I like reading the minds of searchers. I consider them amazing of how they see things related to the poem.

    • Monty Python’s *Life of Brian*

      follower 1 – “What’d he say?”

      follower 2 – “I think it was ‘Blessed are the cheesemakers.’ “

      • J A —
        Hilarious scene!!! “He said blessed are the cheesemakers!! Why should they be blessed!!??”

      • J A Kraven,

        I wonder what kind of cheese were the cheesemakers making, gouda, cheddar, swiss or blue?

        How much cheese can a cheesemaker make if a cheesemaker could?

  43. They were friends for deacades. So she was ware of the treasure and go the first interview for that reason.

    He sure as heckfire does not mention the word Rocky in 2010 or 2011. I literally think he got the idea to say Rocky Mounties because he was prompted in an interview.

    Listen to the one I linked and watch the early ones on You Tube with Lorene Mills.

    Does he ever say Rocky Mountains or mention a state other than New Mexico?

  44. Quick question … I researched “Terry Scant”, but couldn’t find an answer. Maybe y’all can help.

    Some posters have implied that FF has indicated that searchers can retrieve the chest “year round”. In other words, even in snowy winter, a searcher can drive to the area, hike to the spot (assuming searcher knows where the spot is), and retrieve the chest.

    What is the quote from FF that leads to the conclusion that the chest is accessible to searchers >>> year-round?

    Ken (in Texas)

      • Thanks lobo for the quick response.

        FF mentions “any weather”. I’m wondering though if it is possible to not be allowed auto access to where searcher would park their car. I know some areas of the Rockies are closed to traffic in winter months.

        Is his above comment that one can “retrieve it in any weather” saying that the chest is NOT in an area which is closed off to traffic during the winter months?

        • If you knew where the treasure was and a road was closed would that stop you from retrieving it? With the treasure at stake I’m sure you would be able to find an alternate mode of transportation.

          • Aaron,
            I don’t think alternative transport is what the comment might being attempted to relay.

            “It” in the comment refers to the treasure chest and /or “where’ it is’ as the hidey spot [ precisely ~ exactly, regardless of size ]

            The comment is not talking about clues, *travel, process, modes*… it simply seem to imply that the chest itself is [probably] ‘retrievable’ from it’s home ~ in any weather.

            While this may not help in the discovery of the treasure chest… it might help with the ‘idea’ the chest is just laying under a sage bush, in water [liquid or frozen state], or even possibly, buried under snow during winter months, or worried about mandated road closures.
            fenn said; “if you can *find* the treasure chest it won’t be a big job for you to get it”… that says to me… in any weather for “retrieving” from its spot, and not so much the idea of traveling to it.

            The language is similar to the idea of “Solve” [ being a completed task ] to a “General Solve” [ that needs action for a theory, untested if you will ]

            IF the weather is bad enough where you [ a searcher ] would have difficult getting to the hide, why go? There are too many problems that could arise, freak storm, flash flood, feet of snow on top of snow etc. Especially when fenn warns we should be able to *walk several hours* twice to our solves or don’t go.

            I’d take fenn’s advise; and wait till the mud dries.

      • Ken in TX: I treat “weather” and “season” as being distinct from one another. Forrest has never encouraged searching in wintertime.

        • If you know precisely where the treasure is you do not search for it. You retrieve it.

          People who are searching do not know where the TC is and he cautions them not to search in winter.

          He can, and you can, retrieve it anytime.

          I m o

        • Lugnutz: would you say your statement was still true if the only way to get to the treasure chest’s location was via roads made impassable by either an ongoing forest fire or a blizzard?

          • Might, in part, the idea of “planning” as we are told we should think about… imply when and how we should go through our solve.
            I mean, if nature or stupidity of humans prevents the travel to our solve / general solve for picking up the chest, do we skip common sense, and just go anyways?

            This obsession with mandated road closures mind boggles me… involving a solve.

          • Hey Forrest

            Do you see this? Zap is trying to box me into a canyon!

            Zap – F said “in any weather”.
            You are making a determination that says “doesn’t mean any season”.
            This is what I disagree with.

            One of these days you will share your ideas for where to begin and If those ideas aren’t complete lunacy like most, we can look at where to go from here.

            I actually do not think to have solved the clue Where Warm Waters Halt, but I don’t know. I say I don’t think you have it because I do not believe you solved for the clue before looking for a location. You are too consumed by the idea that F is hinting at where to begin on the map.

            Lugnutz

          • Seeker: I’m not obsessed with road closures. I can probably get to my spot more than 360 days out of 365. All I was trying to get Lugnutz to admit was that NO — the treasure chest is NOT retrievable 24/7/365, and it’s ridiculous to claim it is — especially when you have no idea where it’s secreted. And even if you know exactly where it is, that doesn’t mean it’s always physically possible to get there.

            Forrest has said it’s possible the chest could get scorched in a forest fire. Would that be a good time to go get it?

          • Lugnutz: I know you don’t think I’ve got the correct WWWH, and that’s fine. But you should base that belief on better information. You think I chose my location first by force-fitting Forrest’s hints. I most certainly did not. I started the Chase investing (correction: wasting!) nearly a year doing a blind, systematic, north-to-south search through 7.5-minute topos looking for WWWH/canyons/Brown/blaze/water-high/heavy-loads possibilities in 3 out of the 4 states, so clearly I did not *choose* the location before solving a clue.

            As I’ve shared years ago, that 1000-hour exercise was an utter waste of time. Had I spent that time staring only at the poem and nothing else, I probably would have discovered my keyword much sooner. I just wasn’t expecting it to be that kind of puzzle. That keyword was my beginning, it came from the poem ALONE, and THAT was what told me where I needed to be.

            Trolling for supporting hints in TTOTC didn’t come until much, much later. And in the Scrapbooks and TFTW even later still. I maintain that Forrest drops hints in almost every written, public communication. I know that sounds absurd to you now, but someday you may have the necessary epiphany and then you’ll realize I was trying to help all along.

          • Zap –

            You understand.
            IMO
            You must first solve the clue.
            The clue is Where Warm Waters Halt.
            This isn’t a description of where to look or what to look for. It is a clue to be solved. I do not know how you came to your WWWH, but I have seen nothing from you to suggest that you applied a solve to the clue. I have seen you talk about locations and moving between them.

            Here is a very simple example. This not an actual example that bears on the chase. You believe the solve to WWWH is At a Grave. Now you take that word or idea and look to marry it to the map. Ok there is no Grave Wyoming but there is a Dire Wy. Grave and Dire are synonyms. NOTE: there is no Dire Wy which is why I used this example.

            As I say, I do not know how you solved for WWWH. I suspect, based on the evidence, that you short cut the clue.

            But, you tell me.

            Lugnutz

          • Lug;

            In your example, you say: “You believe the solve to WWWH is At a Grave. ” Isn’t that a bit like throwing darts? I agree that you need to solve WWWH – But in your example, you take a wild stab in the dark by saying -“You believe the solve to WWWH is At a Grave. ” Shouldn’t you solve wwwh FIRST in order to come to the conclusion that wwwh has to do with a grave?

            You are starting with an unproven premise – that wwwh has to do with a grave – and with this false premise you then use it to “Solve” wwwh – wrong premise = wrong result – IMO – JDA

          • Lugnutz, this is getting tedious and redundant.

            “You must first solve the clue. The clue is Where Warm Waters Halt.”

            Yes, we all know that.

            “This isn’t a description of where to look or what to look for. It is a clue to be solved.”

            DUH. I’ve told you umpteen times it is a RIDDLE to be solved. I’m much better at pattern recognition than riddle-solving, so shame on me — I solved NFBTFTW before I solved WWWH. I think it’s unlikely anyone else will — not because they’re dumber than me. On the contrary, it’s because riddle-solving is a right-brained activity (which I’m weaker on) and NFBTFTW is totally left-brained (which I excel at).

            “I do not know how you came to your WWWH, but I have seen nothing from you to suggest that you applied a solve to the clue.”

            Lugnutz, I’ve lost track of how many times I’ve told you how I solved it. KEYWORD! KEYWORD! KEYWORD! It’s right there in the poem — multiple times, in fact. It’s hidden with steganography to make it hard. THAT is how you solve half of the WWWH solution. Solving the *riddle* of WWWH is the other half. You can still solve the WWWH riddle portion without knowing the keyword, but that won’t give you an actionable starting location. The two work in concert as a kind of lock and key.

            ALL IN MY OPINION. Yours may unwisely differ.

          • Zap,
            My comment was open ended… no names mentioned~ just the idea that it might be possible to eliminate a place because of road closures, I find that funny.
            It the same as folks wanting fenn’s parked vehicle to be in a parking lot or parking location. I mean, I recall a story of him landing on a ‘dirt road’ just because he like the area from above…
            For all we know fenn could have drove a mile into the woods [ knowing the area like the back of his hand ]… not unlike years earlier, the family did the same with their 30’s something Plymouth towing a trailer. [story from the daily beast 2013]

            Although as far as your idea of a date ~ time that might be involved with the solve, I agree, but for different reasoning… and kinda season related… and not so much weather related.

          • JDA ~’ In your example, you say: “You believe the solve to WWWH is At a Grave. ” Isn’t that a bit like throwing darts? ‘

            I didn’t care for Lugz example as a named place, but why can’t the poem be read as death and/or a grave or grave type metaphor?
            Warm waters that stop, could represent the human body upon death… I mean this whole challenge came about because of that, right?
            Canyon down be that hole in the ground, NFBTFTW one foot in the grave, PIBTHOB our home Earth/dirt.

            NPFTM could start us off in at a grave site [ lol, not necessarily human either ]
            The end is always near… etc. Maybe there’s a reason fenn used the term “nail down” WWWH. That’s not to say a place like that is where the chest ‘lays in wait’ but there’s nothing saying its not outside such a location…

            It’s not a beautiful thought like most would like, but young fenn did go to a cemetery, late at night, alone… Maybe you’re effort will be worth the cold with this line of thinking?

          • Seeker: I know you think the sun is somehow involved in the correct solution — a Stonehenge-like alignment, perhaps, that only occurs once a year such that at any other time of year at least one of the clues is fouled making solution impossible. For solar alignments, only two unique extremes are possible: winter solstice and summer solstice, and we already know Forrest hid the chest in summertime.

            Still, the sunrise and sunset locations (for instance) vary by mere tenths of a degree (less than the angular size of the sun) a week on either side of the solstice, so any alignment that works on June 21st will work just fine from June 14th to 28th.

            Personally, I don’t think successful solution of any of the clues will end up depending on the time of day or day of the year.

          • Seeker;

            Your point is well taken. My only objection to Lug’s example he says that he “BELIEVES that wwwh was associated with a grave. I do not think that “a belief” will result in much. I would think that something else, somewhere in the poem had LED Lug to KNOW that wwwh was associated with a grave. That was my point. Who knows – maybe Lug had found something somewhere else in the poem that precipitated his “Belief” – but we were not made aware of this, so (at least to me) it seemed like throwing darts – JMO – JDA

          • auurrrgghhh, this is gut wrenching to say, but, Zap, I agree with everything you have said.

            Totally two different ways to come to a conclusion, but, like most everyone, THAT initial waste of time was not in vain. We all start out THAT way. A full year/ year and a half of trying to marry things together to only find THAT you need to start all over and the current method is wrong. Not a waste. More like a process to have to go through in order to build your final solve. You might come to a conclusion THAT it was a waste now, but everyone starts in this fashion until something finally ‘pops”.
            You say it was finding just a key word, so be it, for me, it was finding instructions in words, of words, and letters and following the instructions. Whatever way, it’s solving the poem, and THAT is what needs to be done. We can differ on how we see to solve for clues, but the foundation THAT needs to be laid at the beginning is basically the same. Face value at the start will not end well. I might not agree on how you find WWWH, or try to interpret and solve for clues, but finding a process on how to arrive at a solution is basically the same. So no waste of time, it just feels THAT way because of what you now know compared to when you started. (At least THAT is how I try to justify for wasting the first year myself).
            As far as retrieving the chest, of course it could be done in any weather, it’s just would you want to or risk to in dangerous weather? But if it is true, (no doubt) THAT you can retrieve in any weather, shouldn’t the questions to be asked be if the clues are accessible, can be seen, or hindered in weather. If you are a clue to clue person, then a snow storm may cover some of the clues. How then could you find? Compared to a coordinates person who could find in any weather?
            (a word THAT is key). THAT leads to if you are trying to marry clues to a map, which you can guess at and see, then with botg, could you still find your clues in a blizzard? And. will they guide you to the chest? How could you follow clues if you cannot see them? How can you learn where to find clues if they are covered by feet of snow? Especially since we know that some of the clues on the path you take need botg to solve? Like the 9th clue?

          • Zap –

            You mean that you think you identified a keyword and that word made you look at the map pf Montana west of West and you discovered a place on the map matching the keyword right?

            No need to keep discussing this. I just do it because you are telling people they are wrong but not showing us anything that would make us believe you in my opinion.

            HEY JD. I am actually using another searchers idea and I know you have read it. Warm waters of the human body halt at the grave. Not my idea. It’s also not a better or worse idea than any of yours. The point is that there is a 2 step process which, judging by what they write, most searchers short cut. Most think WWWH is a place. And that keeps them from moving forward.

            Lugnutz

  45. Seeker, if in the dead of winter FF emailed you and told you exactly where the chest is, would you still wait till summer?

    • HA!
      That’s a big WHATIF… lol
      I’m not worried about it to be honest… I mean, folks get there and don’t know what is right in front of them, and has been that way since – at least – 2012.
      And in all honesty, I’m not looking for the chest.

      • Seeker:
        Ya He’s just here to bust our balls. Seriously if your not looking for it or even get out and put your feet in a Forest? Really why are you here. What a waste of time. You must have a lovely life.

        If you don’t even have a WWH. Just Quit.

        • It’s makes me laugh when someone who knows all never really knows much at all.
          Boring BS is a waste of my time…. see ya.

          • If I showed this site and all the lurkers what I know everyone would change course. Stop dead in their tracks and search where I’m at. No BS. If your not actively searching and just here to bust balls your a waste of time.

          • A waste of whose time? If you don’t like Seeker’s posts, and consider them a waste of YOUR time, don’t read them. – Just like I do not waste my time on MOST of your posts – JDA

          • That comment from the one who knew and still came back with emptied pockets. Yet, brags about all he knows without saying anything at all.
            hmmm

      • Mr. Brown;

        Who are you to question why someone chooses to participate in Forrest’s chase, and how they choose to participate? Last I heard, this is a free country, and we are each entitled to participate, or not participate, in whatever activities we choose.

        I do NOT know Seeker’s circumstances. He MAY be a very fit and active 50 something man (or even a woman for all I know) who just likes solving puzzles. On the other hand, he might be another Stephen Hawkings – a genius who happens to be confined to a wheelchair.

        Why throw rocks, especially when you live in a glass house. I seem to recall that you are not perfect – Just sayin’ JDA

        • Your right It seems that his opinion wether he has the right one here or not seems to crack everyone’s skulls he claims he’s not even actively searching. So my simple point was if your not actively searching and many of us have boots on the ground many trips this season and are actively beating our brains in the books and all over the internet why have someone here busting balls? What for the Thrill of busting balls. I just don’t get it. Honestly seems like a waste of time. That’s all I was saying.
          Hey if that’s what you get off on. Have at it.

          • There are some people who are holding off on BOG until they feel confident. So just because some folks don’t go out on BOG searches doesn’t mean they wouldn’t if they had the right solve.

        • Yes JDA I am far from perfect and you are right. If people here don’t have a solve or are actively searching for one and pursuing it physically or having someone do botg. Why bust other people’s solves or Opinions.

        • HEY What??? JDA ~I do NOT know Seeker’s circumstances. He MAY be a very fit and active 50 something man (OR EVEN A WOMAN for all I know) who just likes solving puzzles. On the other hand, he might be another Stephen Hawkings – a genius who happens to be confined to a wheelchair.

          WT…? I’da be smarter than Hawkin guy … but he gets all the girls because he has that winning smile.
          Rest in peace Steven…

        • It seems the comments here have gotten really unfriendly all of a sudden. Though I’m relatively new (about a year), I’ve enjoyed reading all of your posts (when I have time). Zap, in particular, helped me a lot, and while I don’t know if my solve will be right, at least I’m in the game. And, as far as Seeker’s remarks about not looking for the chest, maybe he just likes being in the forest. That seems like as good a reason as any to be here. IMO, of course.

  46. https://dalneitzel.com/2018/07/25/odds-n-ends-about-fenns-treasure-hunt-61/#comment-569493

    zaphod73491 on July 31, 2018 at 9:55 am said: “…..Forrest has confirmed he spent a good deal of time in the town nearest the treasure. ”
    …………………………………………………….

    Zapster, not wise to post stuff as fact….until ya know fer sure!!! 🙂

    https://forum.hintofriches.com/forum/the-hint-of-riches/51552-fenn-clarifies-town-nearest-the-tc#post51552

    ​​​Forrest,
    Zaphod over at HOD mentioned this less known article from last year: http://www.explorebigsky.com/finding-fenns-treasure….
    Did this reporter quote you correctly?
    “He also confirms that he spent a good deal of time in the town nearest the treasure.”

    “That was not my quote. f”

    • Poem
      TTotC
      Good map

      Find TC or engage in internet masturbation.

      It’s kind of a frightening statement on the condition of our species that so very many prefer to engage in the latter.

    • Hi Loco: the article’s author, Jana, didn’t put the line in quotation marks, and yet that doesn’t sound like the sort of statement a writer would pull out of thin air. She must have gotten the idea from somewhere. Yes, Jana might have conflated a pair of statements made by Forrest at different times and made an incorrect inference. Then again, would you call Forrest’s reply an actual denial? I don’t really care either way since it’s not an ATF from Forrest.

    • That reminds me of the kids with the ‘teachers pet syndrome’ when admonished by the teacher herself for getting too cocky with everyone else in the classroom… lol

    • Whatever, Oz10. Sorry for even mentioning an article that most of you boneheads hadn’t even bothered to read until I pointed it out. Talk about shooting the messenger. *I* didn’t write the article. Go pound sand.

      • Not an insult…

        Teacher’s Pet- An annoying student who kisses up to the teacher and does a bunch of favors for said teacher in hopes of getting a good grade. The kind of student who raises his hand for every single question and buys expensive gifts for their teacher. This student thinks they are superior to their peers because they are the teacher’s favorite and therefore they bosses everyone around. They will also tattle on their peers for insignificant rules they might break.

      • Zap
        I appreciate you sharing the article. I did not know about it and feel any insight into Fenn’s head is better than none. Everything that isn’t coming directly from Fenn has to be taken with a filter but, none the less, could have relevance.

        I do enjoy reading your thoughts and process on the chase as it comes from a different perspective. Posting to the world comes with the territory and criticism turns into scrutiny much of the time.

        I support your thoughts…

        • Treasure Happy: thank you very much for your post. HoD was starting to feel like golf for me today: a good walk spoiled. My wife and I had to euthanize our dog last weekend, so my patience for taking abuse today is quite a bit lower than usual, particularly when it’s coming from so many directions. I don’t deserve this.

          • Zap,

            Sorry to hear about your loss. Dogs are a good part family and less a pet.

            You may not deserve all said, but you did set yourself up.
            I only say this kindly. 🙂

          • Zap,
            I just got home from work, and I don’t have time to look back to see what you are talking about.
            I just want to say how very sorry I am about you losing your dog. I lost my dog, Lucky, the week before I found this chase back in 2013.
            I swear that I still see him occasionally out of the corner of my eye.
            All the best,
            luckydog

          • Hey, sometimes we all need a little “Hakuna Matata.” HOD is one of those places for me and its up to each one of us to ensure that. I hate to hear about your dog, man that’s rough. I hope the weekend provides some relief.

          • Dear Zap,

            I’m so sorry to read about the loss of your family member. I do hope you and your bride will consider visiting a shelter and adopting another (or, better — two!). There are so many many good dogs awaiting you and the opportunity for a good home.

            Personally, I won’t search wherever a dog is not allowed. I can’t imagine that Forrest is so cruel to demand such.

            Adopt and engage them in the search. I firmly believe a good dog will find the treasure. Their owner will just be the unintended beneficiary.

          • Thank you, all, for the well wishes. She was a great dog (our first), who loved and was loved by everyone who met her. She had a wonderful life, and even accompanied us on our most recent Fenn search this past spring. Hers will be tough paws to fill.

          • Zap, sorry to hear. It’s crushing. All joking and chase aside, I feel for you. It really is like losing a family member, the decision must have hurt. Best wishes to you from a fellow So. Cal.

          • Charlie: it sounds like you’ve been through the experience yourself and understand. It is emotionally debilitating.

          • Zap;

            Pets are family members. “Little Bit” was my companion for 14 years, but her heart gave out (like mine) and we put her down so she didn’t suffer. It had taken two new members to replace her – Snuggled and Mz. Pip – and yes, they filled the void. They can not take her place in my heart, but they fill the void. I am sure that in time they too will fully take the place of Little Bit – Condolences – JDA

          • Hi Zap, so sorry to hear about your dog. My Anatolian Shepherd is 13 and will have to deal with this too before too long. My dog is family. It will be incredibly difficult when she goes…they do not live long enough. They are one of God’s gifts to mankind. Again, very sorry for your loss. Dave

          • Sorry to hear about the dog. I am down from 3 to 1 and the one remaining loves it whenever I walk through the door. And she jumps on me at 6:00 ready for the morning walk.

            I enjoy reading your opinions and analysis. If I could only hitch my wagon to one mule here it would be you.

            I make what will likely be my final search adventure in a couple of weeks. Can’t hardly wait, but ready to move on to new adventures after this.

          • Zap…Here’s my tribute to your loss. Kaptain is definitely one of the members of our family. He’s in his chair with one of my granddaughter’s hats on. Tomorrow is another day…

          • Zap, I’m so sorry to read about the loss of your dog. I know how heartbreaking it is to lose a beloved pet, and no matter how many you have, it never gets easier.

          • Aww Zap, I’m sorry to hear this… As you can tell I like dogs and it’s never easy to let them go. Just remember he/she just might be up on that cloud with Mr Fenn watching us and smiling 🙂

          • Meadowlark: thank you for making me feel a
            bit better. I’m discovering that “dog people” really understand, especially those who have suffered a loss before. We don’t have kids so this is the closest thing we ever experience to losing a child. It’s just awful. But the nearly 14 years of joy she brought
            more than compensates for the pain.

            Thank you also for saying you’ve enjoyed my posts; I was starting to get the feeling I was annoying more people than I was entertaining or helping.

            Best of luck in your next BOTG search! I’m sure you’re excited. We intend another trip before the year is out, and then like you I may move on to something else. 3 years on one challenge is long enough. If I can’t solve it after a few thousand hours it’s time to move on.

          • Zap- I am so sorry to hear about the loss of your pet. Dogs love us unconditionally and it hurts like hell when they have to leave.
            If only people were more like them, this world would be a much better place.
            I am truly sorry for the difficult decision that you had to make.

            “My little dog- a heartbeat at my feet”

          • Zap,
            Hey man, I am truly sorry for your loss! Our pets are not only FAMILY but quite often treat us better than some family. YOU are one smart cat Zap! I always found time to read your posts and love your insight! Man, I’m so sorry for your loss! Keep your head up and shed a few tears for me! I’m tearing up just thinking about all the love you just lost! There are very few on here that I find informative and interesting(not that my opinion matters) but you are the MAN! Crush ’em Zap! So much love in those puppy eyes…you got this! Love your intelligence Zap!

      • Hey zap…I read it as soon as it came out. Still…nothing compelling in the article with certain relevance to the Chase. Very clear that it was not very quotable. Thanks for sharing here at Dal’s site your opinion about it.

  47. Guys

    I decided to tell my work colleagues yesterday that I was not working in Inverness, Scotland, as they thought.

    And that I actually was away in the Rockies looking for Forrest Fenns hidden treasure.

    “What” who the heck is Forrest fenn they replied.

    So I told them a little bit about Forrest and his hidden treasure.

    Then everything went silent, 2 minutes later I found myself being bombarded with questions;

    1. It’s a hoax, this fenn guy sells books, It’s a hoax..

    2. No treasure exists

    3. Its a publicity stunt.

    4. I don’t believe you Ronnie

    5. It’s some kind of pyramid selling involving fenns books.

    I could go on and on.

    We’ll you didn’t find the treasure Ronnie, so you won’t be going back.

    To which I replied I may not have found the T.C however I did find a lot of other treasures along the way as well as meeting a lot of people from all over the world.

    And to answer your question, yes I am going back to the Rockies, Im already planning my next visit.

    You can’t be serious Ronnie, to which I replied I’m perfectly serious.

    Stay safe guy’s

    Ronnie

    • LOL Ronnie,
      Do you work at the motor vehicle registration center… those guys are rough.

    • Beautiful, you tell em Ronnie! It amazes me the number of people who have trouble believing even the smallest things. .I know people are guarded these days, but some things are at least worth looking into with possibility thinking in mind…the Chase is one of those and I am grateful I looked into it. Just to experience the Rockies is beyond description.

  48. I wonder how much time is spent on “”Learning”” wwh. Didn’t F say we should learn wwwh? I don’t think the learning part has anything to do with maps, but does mean to research. I don’t believe the answer is anywhere in the poem.

    Just Say’n

    • He also used the phrase along the lines of: you have to “find outl WWWH. It sounded a little like a verbal slip-up.

    • He said, you need to find out- you need to learn where warm waters halt.
      Not a verbal slip up. A statement to be taken serious. You need to find out to learn where warm waters halt. IMO, it’s the only way to solve for wwwh.

      • What he actually said,
        “Yeah, I have some advice. Read the book. And then study the poem. Over and over. Read it over and over. Maybe even memorize it. And then go back and read the book again looking for hints that are in the book that are going to help you with the clues that are in the poem. That’s the best advice that I can give. You have to find out- you have to learn where the first clue is. they get progressively easier after you discover where the first clue is.

        • Good post, Charlie. Sounds like the hints are involved in reavealing the the answer to the first clue. I’ve been stating that for some time now.

        • charlie…that is a great one to keep ready at hand. *where*. learn where the first clue is. discover where the first clue is. progressively easier *after* you discover where…
          Thanks for keeping that one current.

          • I’m surprised more people haven’t figured out where wwwh and if I were to venture a guess ff probably is too (imo).

    • CharlieM ~’I don’t believe the answer is anywhere in the poem.’

      I could be wrong but i don’t see “answers” either. Informational suggesting, sure, but not answers.
      It’s the job of the reader to understand the poem as intended… or as fenn stated, think the right thoughts… I think fenn has, over the years, attempted to guide a type of thinking by some of his ATF’s. One being “a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help”… another… a map is a map… the more detailed a map the better if you have the ‘right’ map. As well as GE and/or a good map.

      Should we need to ‘learn’ WWH as he suggested… One needs to ask, what details are on a right map that GE also covers?
      We now can assume for the most part [imo] that all clues are not of a structure or involved with. This leaves the idea of “learning” may not be of history [involving man’s product, so to speak] but of geography itself. So now the question becomes; When in geography do we need to learn of, line of thinking.
      Time spent on research, imo, is only a factor to exactly the idea of “thinking the right thoughts” is about. The way fenn sees it all. I think the comment of “down the road” and others, was an indicator to how to examine the poem… a geographical scale, idea.

      But here’s the catch / snag, if you will. Little Indy or anyone else can seemingly figure out the first two clues, and many have… yet… they didn’t seem to know they did. What didn’t they “learn” about the clue’s reference and the place it is at?

      Lets say for example; Old faithful is clue 1… what was not know about this clue [ for example ] that folks moved away without understanding something about it?
      Something to do with the volcanic action that created it?
      Or is it just a place to start at…
      Personally, I think most if not all [ so far ] are oversimplifying clues by only knowing of them as deciphered to where they are, and nothing more.
      Someone implied a few days ago… hoB is only known to fenn, line of thinking … OK, should that thought be true, is learning WWH going to produce what hoB refers to-?- or any other clue?
      Or simply something we need to come across while traveling a path?
      Another-words; does learning WWH open the poem to it’s understanding of the rest of the clues…? And don’t leave home without it…

  49. I think I have figured out the poem on pg 73 TTOTC. This poem has been bugging me for a while. Why is it included in TTOTC? What message does it contain and what does it even mean? I think I’ve got it.

    “Courage wears a crimson coat
    Trimmed in trappings bold;
    Knowledge dons a dress of note,
    Fame’s cloth is gold.

    Far they range and fair they roam
    Much they do and dare,
    While gray-gowned patience sits at home,
    And weaves the cloth they wear”

    I think what it is saying is that our lives are built upon the history that came before us. We can do great things, but nothing we do is ever entirely ours alone. Our actions are built upon the lives of those who came before and left a path for us to follow. We learn from others and much of the life we live is here because of those who went before.

    So what does this have to do with the chase?

    p 15 “Sooner or later each of us will be nothing but the leftovers of history. . .” And that is why it is so important that Catcher in the Rye landed right on top of Time Magazine when FF tossed it into the trash.

    And I think that these two lines are meaningful.
    “While gray-gowned patience sits at home,
    And weaves the cloth they wear”

    gray-gowned patience= Mother Nature’s longsightedness

    And, I think it is important that “home” is mentioned in this poem as well. See p 12-13 TTOTC (remembering that FF’s mind lives at 13)
    “Well the first sentence read “If you really want ot hear about it, the first thing you’ll probably want to know is where I was born, . . . but I don’t feel like going i to it if you want to know the truth.”

    IMO, we need to know where metaphorically FF was born. He tells us in TTOTC but it is subtle. I’m not talking about him being raised in Texas. I mean that he said several times in TTOTC that he was important to himself.

    p 102 TTOTC “it doesn’t really matter who we are if we are someone to ourselves”
    p 23 TTOTC “no matter what I lacked or lost, bad grades and al, they couldn’t take away my name”

    I think that FF metaphorically sees himself as a natural forest fen. A HOB. That is why his name is so important that no matter what happens, he will always have that. And, I’ve been concerned about bringing this up because a fen is a very special place. It is the remains of history all piled up.

    https://www.fs.fed.us/wildflowers/beauty/California_Fens/what.shtml

    “Bogs and Fens
    “Peatlands are generally divided into two categories: bogs and fens. Both are permanently saturated wetlands.”

    “Bogs receive water and nutrients only from the atmospheric precipitation. Thus bogs are found only in areas with abundant rainfall.”

    “Fens receive significant water and nutrients from a ground source of water.”

    Basically a fen is made up of peat. “Peatlands
    Peat is organic matter (the dead remains of plants) that is deposited under water-soaked conditions as a result of incomplete decomposition. Peat accumulation occurs because the rate of organic matter production exceeds the rate of decomposition due to the soil being waterlogged. Peatlands form and are maintained only where the hydrologic regime produces perennial soil saturation.(https://www.fs.fed.us/wildflowers/beauty/California_Fens/what.shtml)

    I mentioned this to one searcher who suggested that the fen could not possibly be important to the correct solve because it is not something that is longterm. Actually, that isn’t true. Some fens are over a 1,000 years old and they can take 100 or more years to even get started. So unless we destroy them, they are likely to be around for a very long time.

    Peat is quite interesting! Google says this about Peat “a brown, soil-like material characteristic of boggy, acid ground, consisting of partly decomposed vegetable matter. It is widely cut and dried for use in gardening and as fuel.”cuttings are rooted in a homemade mixture of equal parts peat and sand”

    Hmmm. Soil-like substance that is BROWN. A fen is like a small island that is an ecosystem in itself. Fens contain plants that are found no place else in the world. Fens are also home to animal species that are found no place else in the world. Specific types of dragonflies and frogs have their homes in fens.

    Many areas protect wetlands and especially fens because if a fen is destroyed, so is the ecosystem that relies upon it as a home.

    https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprd3803512.pdf

    So peat isn’t exactly soil, and yet is is similar to soil. “To Caliphi I am dirt, but to the dirt I am a Caliph” p 14 TTOTC.

    PLEASE DO NOT GO DIGGING UP FENS!!!

    It is possible that WWWH is a fen. A fen “holds” water year-round. To hold is one meaning of halt. p 9 TTOTC “went to Border’s to see about those books. I just wanted to look at one and HOLD it for a while.”

    A fen is a type of a puddle. A kid knows that water halts in a puddle, and what kid can walk past a puddle and not stop to splash?

    A fen is also technically a HOB. It may not be the HOB specified in the poem. But it is a home made of a “brown soil-like substance”, a unique ecosystem in itself.

    FENS NEED TO BE PROTECTED! I am 100% certain that FF would not have placed his TC in a fen. He knows its value, the value of the fen I mean. If it turns out that a forest fen is WWWH and HOB, then the rest of the poem is “below the home of Brown” and I am sure that we are not supposed to dig in a fen. We are supposed to care about nature! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT DIG IN A FEN” Respect it and treausre it.

    p145 TTOTC “What I’ve learned that’s most important is that both countries and people should know enough to just leave other folks alone and do a BETTER JOB OF PROTECTING OUR PLANET”

    I beg of anyone who thinks I might be right about fens to protect them. Read about them, find out how to recognize them because it isn’t easy. Then watch out for them while you are trekking through the Rocky Mountains looking for the TC. I believe a fen has more value than all of the contents of the TC. Please read about and study fens and make sure that in your attempt to locate the TC, you are not trampling through a fen because you don’t know that it is there or even worse, because you know its there are you insist upon digging when you “aren’t supposed to dig”

    Two more things I’m going to add about Peat.
    Peat is defined as the brown soil-like substance that makes up a fen.
    It is also “a pretty girl” (smile at a homely girl) and a free standing spice cupboard, which relates to several ATFs.

    I’m not in the RMs today, but off in search of wetlands to photograph. Pleae help me protect wetlands.

    • I told you Flutter, I like your posts. This has been the base of my various solves for several years now. I feel exposed.

      • I’m sorry OS2. Didn’t mean to expose anyone else’s thoughts. If you want to discuss this topic in detail you can message me butterflygarden00. At Yahoo dot com

        • No need to worry, Flutter … there is still plenty of void left for locating and plotting, for matching terms and evaluating evidence. Here’s what I’ve been pondering this year … FF brought us along on so many of his memory journeys, but not the “one he went alone in there.” not the one that is “dear” to him. Good luck on your quest. OS2

    • I learned something new, thank you. So would a small stream completely hidden by plants thus be a fen?

  50. Zaphod,
    I’m so sorry about your dog. Pets are important members of our families. Anyone who has never loved a pet has missed out on something special.

  51. Relating to the mention of Stonehenge way up above. Jumping past all the clue solving I often find myself thinking wouldn’t it be cool if it was hidden near a Medicine Wheel. Doug Preston mentioned he was going to leave his car where there is a planetarium. Forrest’s childhood observatory was a place of stones and stars.

    “…Thanks Ron, thoughtful questions
    The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might still exist in 100 years but the geography probably will change before we reach the next millennia. The Rocky mountains are still moving and associated physical changes will surely have an impact. If you are in the year 3,009 it will be more difficult for you to find the treasure.f…”

    3009 seems like such a a random choice of future date (let me know if I’m missing a relationship). Forrest didn’t just add 1000 years to the current year. What will change in 1000 years? Erosion? Precession of the pole? If I google “3009 and precession” I find a precessing pulsar but that could just be a random coincidence.

    Sounds like there are about 70 known Medicine Wheels documented, it would be cool if Forrest found another one. It would probably be easier to find one from the air.

    Anyways, the end isn’t the place to start, back to the beginning.

  52. Seeker,
    May I suggest that the answers to your questions may be:
    “You have to start with the first clue, and let it take you to the blaze.” (F, 18 May 2017)
    Geoff
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

  53. Perseid meteor showers peak early this Monday morning. Moon is favorable, hopefully the skies are dark and clear where you are. Get the kids out and snuggle up with your loved one.

    • My son and I drive out truck out to our front pasture and watch every summer. We are definitely looking forward to this years since we were overcast last year.
      Plus the moon will be a crescent , so way better visibility. Thank you for the reminder!
      August 12-13
      10pm the show starts

    • Hi Argillite/All: you don’t need to wait until the 12th to look for Perseids — they’ve been flying all week and will be great tonight. (You can get an idea how many there were last night at spaceweather.com — pan half way down the page and you’ll see a plot of dozens of green orbits, all of which were Perseids captured by all-sky cameras in the U.S.)

      And you don’t have to wait until after midnight — you can start looking for “earthgrazers” around 10 pm local when the radiant is low in the northeast. These can be quite spectacular.

  54. Zaphod,
    I also enjoy your posts. It helpful to hear various points of view. I personally do not think any one person with independently solve the chase. I think whoever solves it will have ideas from many people. Thank you for your posts.

    • Hi Flutterby – I like your style!

      Promise not to share or end-run me and I’ll send u the solve. Took me a day of pondering to discover wwwh and a few more to solve all else. While neat ideas, creativity abounds on these forums; I’m a bit proud to have solved on my own:)

      Assuming nobody else gets there before, you’re welcome to join me when i go.

      Kindly.

    • I agree FB. There has been too many independent failed solves. I have started creating a site, that will be private, for shared information. I have had some of the same thoughts as Zap, that if I cannot figure it out in a few years then it is not possible for me to do it alone. I, like others, really just want this thing found. Being part of a team that finds it will be extremely rewarding still. Brainstorming shared information among an Fenthusiastic group might be the only way. More to come.

      • Awesome, Aaron…can’t wait! Do I get to be the first team member of yours from the community? Lol

        • Absolutely FD. I have notes about most of the serious searchers and I know you are one that wants to work together on a serious effort to solve this thing.

          We will surely want to limit are members and after the first few searchers join we can have that conversation. Getting a few to start with will help us make that decision. My goal is to facilitate a secure environment for reaching our common goal. Decisions from there will be made as a team.

  55. Aaron … I’m sure that if the chest is hidden in an area not accessible by vehicle in the winter, such as most of Yellowstone, then it’s a simple matter just to parachute in, retrieve the chest, then hike miles and miles with the chest, back to civilization … in your dreams, maybe …

    But here in the real world, winter road closures … matter.

    His statement that the chest is retrievable in “any weather” tells me he has not hid it deep in the outback of Yellowstone, since most of the Park is closed to vehicular traffic during winter months.

    I realize that some searchers on this message board see no need for their solution to include any any mention of parking spot. But those searchers apparently have never been BOTG. They’re coming up with ideas suitable only for some ivory tower intellectual debate, divorced from reality.

    It seems that some posters here don’t seem to think that one needs to drive or park a car, so that’s not part of their solution. These searchers can just magically appear at where the chest is hidden, then magically disappear with the chest.

    • Ken in Texas,
      Some of us just don’t believe that the poem tells us where to park. The poem IMO (and I know others agree) gives us a starting place. It does not say “park your car . . .” So, while I’m not parachuting in (though that does sound fun), where I put my car does not matter. It only matters that I find a place to put it and get to the first clue.

      • The poem doesn’t need to literally say “park your car here” for searchers to infer that maybe the poem cleverly tells us to get out of our vehicle.

        Is anyone taking their vehicle up an actual creek in their solution? Could the semicolon be an indication that there’s a change before and after it?

        • Yes, I parallel a creek much of the way. For me, “The END is ever drawing nigh.” is where I park. – Just how I interpret it. JDA

          • JDA,
            I hope you parallel your creek after “The end is ever drawing nigh;” unless you think this line in the poem refers to the same creek which IMO does not & would be a big mistake.

            Don’t travel up a creek until it’s mentioned in the poem.

          • Jake – The answer is “YES”. I parallel it both before and after the END place (Where I park) – JDA

          • Sorry to hear that JDA,
            I think you left the poem at that point.
            I would read it again.

            “The end is ever drawing nigh;”
            There is no mention of a creek or parking spot taking this line as straightforward.

            “There’ll be no paddle up your creek,”
            Yea, there’s your creek after nigh line.

            Good luck in this interpretation JDA.
            I don’t like to put the cart before the horse.

          • Well Jake, that is the fun of the chase isn’t it? We all see it a bit differently. Goof luck to Ya’ JDA

        • Fun,
          While it might be possible to see how that ‘could’ apply… you still have to ask, how much driving is involved, IF any at all? Especially when fenn stated he followed the clues ‘when’ he hid the chest. If that doesn’t mean twice, like we have been suggested to be able to do, I don’t know what does. [ without the excuse of; well he din’t say all the clues… clues are clues and we’re told there are 9… if fenn didn’t mean All clues, that is truly misleading, imo ]

          So, hypothetically; we drive to the start, at WWWH, and drive to hoB [as it has been theorized by many because of TFTW ]; “From there” doesn’t really give us a land mark for a suggestion of NPFTM [ so lets just walk there and then back to the cars, or drive to it, I we can drive to that if seemingly needed, I guess?
          But anyways, your suggestion has us back in the car [ at this point in the poem ], and assuming we now drive to HLnWH, at which time we leave the car to find the blaze. Hopefully

          Seriously, while on this endeavor… is all we do is drive clues?
          If this is how it ‘could unfold’ we are in the car at wwh drive down into a canyon or around one, to hoB, drive to or from NPFTM, then drive more for NPUYC until we come to HLnWH… That’s basically the entire idea of all the clues… I sure hope when at the blaze, we don’t need to look down and drive to the chest.

          For me, none of that makes sense to the idea of getting folks out in nature, seeing animal, smelling fresh-air and pines and needed to be able to walk “several hours” – twice to our solves. As fenn suggested.

          lol I don’t need bear spray or even a partner to travel that route. I guess the next obvious question would be; do I need a 4 wheel drive, like fenn’s Jeep Cherokee? or will all the roads be there in a few hundred years…

          Flutterby made a good observation, does it matter where, when, what transportation we take to get to the location?
          Other’s have implied a vehicle is needed, I just don’t buy into that as, how the clues play-out, and say; ‘well, you can walk 20 miles if you want to’ which in my mind is a poor answer, especially when fenn has stated [paraphrasing] if you’re walking long distances… get a new solve. LOL why?? if we can/need to use a car…

          My attempt her isn’t ball busting, ruining anothes’s solve, or attempting to be a KnowItAll… I try to logically see how thing can unfold, replay fenn’s ATF’s to help think about plausible ideas. However, I’m sure there will be some that will claim, I’m just a ball buster, or I never been in the mountains, faced bears, rattlers, copper head, crossed rivers, can’t read a map, never fished or hunt etc. When not a single one of them knows of me.

          I’m ok with that, If that helps the egotesticle feel better about themselves and their failed solves.
          But I’m always reminded of another ATF… If you don’t have the first clues nailed down, don’t go.

          • Seeker,
            You said…Especially when fenn stated he followed the clues ‘when’ he hid the chest.

            Was f only on foot from wwwh when he followed the clues? I don’t think so but others can think otherwise.

            You then said…If that doesn’t mean twice, like we have been suggested to be able to do, I don’t know what does.

            I don’t want to assume what you mean with this last statement. As such, I don’t understand the connection you’re trying to make with those two statements. Especially since I don’t know how anyone other than f can be absolutely sure with f’’s first statement that f did it only on foot or partially in his vehicle.

        • Fundamental…I won’t say that I am totally on board with that idea. However…the poem does say “put in….”. This terminology allows for a searcher to arrive by any means of transport if they choose to read it thusly. Here are a few alternate synonyms for *put in*;
          detrain, deplane, drop anchor, debark, tie up, step out of, arrive, come ashore, alight, admit, rendezvous, register, dismount, disembark, insert. There are many more to choose from and only the correct solve will divulge what it means for certain. Some folks just plain believe that is where the treasure lays in wait…more on the semicolon some other time.

          • I once used “put in” for where I entered a National Park. “…Whoever finds it will have paid their dues…” (danger, out of context).

            I didn’t find it that time.

          • Hi Ken: for me, the “put in” line of the poem has always been my transition from driving to walking. That’s the simplest, “straight forward” reading of the poem, I should think.

          • JDA: it’s fine to disagree. It’s even expected since we know our solutions are hundreds of miles apart.

    • Ken {TX} ~’But those searchers apparently have never been BOTG. They’re coming up with ideas suitable only for some ivory tower intellectual debate, divorced from reality.’

      You make your comment sound like those who don’t have a parking lot worked in their solve will fail at any attempt to find the chest… Might ya point out where in the poem is this location, idea, deciphered clue might be?

      You surmised; “… apparently have never been botg… divorced from reality.”
      What does botg have to do with a person’s experience of the mountains have to do with your comment?

      Take myself for example; I have not gone on this challenge’s search as of yet, but my experiences of being in/on/doing the mountains, open plains, canyons, rivers, kayaking, hiking, hunting, swimming, fishing, exploring or many of the other outdoor activities, is completely unknown to you.
      A bright guy like you should know the difference between fact and fiction… I would think…. before making a comment/accusations/summations, you could not possibly know of, and imply, those who never been botg for this challenge, seemingly don’t know what their doing and/or chatting about.

      So, seeing you brought all this up… How many botg ‘searches / nice vacation’ for fenn’s treasure have you been on, and would you care to share photo’s of your findings? If you have some…

      • Seeker said: “Take myself for example; I have not gone on this challenge’s search as of yet,”

        You & ken are the “armchair queens” amongst kings that do get out there.
        I will not follow any advice by anyone that has not had BOTG.

        TTOTC: “Who would you rather have working on your car, a man who just graduated from four years of mechanics school or a guy who has been working on broken cars for four years?”

        I’m going with the hands on people. Those are the only ones that can actually solve this thing seeing you need BOTG near the end.

        • Jake…just because I don’t hop up and down and make big noises about going botg, or how many times I have under my belt, doesn’t mean that I don’t…or haven’t. This is just a blog for comments and Chase community. And just for you….I’ve been around since the beginning of this Chase and can still count my botg on less than ten fingers. It takes quite a bit to compel me to do a search. I can wander around a few hundred acres right out my backdoor anytime so the nature hikes don’t quite excite me that way. Don’t break your good record of being cordial on my account…and don’t label me with negative names.

          • Hey ken, it’s a shame your offended.
            We are what we are and we should all own that.
            I have not seen anything here to prove that otherwise.

            I don’t think it’s wise to listen to what “armchair queens” have to offer seeing they haven’t been out there searching for the treasure. They are lacking valuable experience in the search area but tend to patronize others who do BOTG.

            I know you have been around for many years but doesn’t mean anything to me. It seems the longer searchers have been around the more they complicate things including folks that only comment on other ideas, comments and solves but never mention their own.

            Cordial is only for those where the scenery never changes.

            You are labeled in my book as so, just as others here and of course I’m only chasing one tail. F

            OK, so you have gone out your backdoor.
            That’s a start.

          • Jake;

            Just a thought – It makes no difference how many searches one makes, if those searches are in the wrong area. Yes, I know, the same COULD hold true for me too – but I do not think so.

            Just a thought to ponder – Being one of only a few searchers in my area gives me confidence. Being one of many searchers in the West Yellowstone area, all who have failed must be like a burr under ones saddle – Being one of a very few, it MIGHT be possible to overlook Indulgence – being one of MANY, MANY searchers who all look in the same area – one would think someone might of found SOMETHING by now – Don’t ya think? JDA

          • JDA-
            I think you might want to consider how many folks were looking in your area in the beginning when Forrest first made the announcement that searchers had identified the first two clues correctly and then went right by the other seven. If not many folks have looked in your area or if no one was looking there in the beginning, it doesn’t seem like it could be the right place…does it?

            Folks have been using places like Ojo Caliente and MJ and Brown’s Canyon and the Red River since the beginning. Doesn’t it stand to reason that some place commonly believed to be the starting point might, in fact be the right starting point?

            I think the same goes for the search area. Folks were within a few hundred feet of the chest from the early days of the search. It stands to reason that folks like Diggin Gypsy or Stephanie might very well have been in the right place…which is why they are so unwilling to give up and go elsewhere…like you…

            It’s a hunch game…and my hunch is that the starting point and the chest’s location are places folks have looked over and over…they just haven’t gotten every detail correct…they have missed something important…we all have. But they have been and continue to be in the right zone…

            They are just missing some incredibly important detail when searching…

          • JDA: the “West Yellowstone” area is not exactly a few square blocks. It’s thousands of square miles. That many searchers have been in those thousands of square miles over the last 7+ years without finding the chest really means nothing. People can clearly get to within 200 feet of the treasure chest and be quite oblivious to the fact.

            In a thousand square miles you can distribute 700,000 searchers — all 200 feet apart from their nearest neighbor. So I would venture to guess that there isn’t a single square mile of the four state region of Forrest’s map that has been searched to the necessary precision to rule it out.

          • Dal and Zap;

            You both have valid points. I am sure that many searchers have been in my area over the past 8 years. I am sure that more than a few have been within 500 or even 200′ and did not know that they were that close.

            I am also quite sure that the number of people searching “MY” area is a small percentage of those that have searched the West Yellowstone area.

            Scale wise – My search area is probably smaller than the over-all West Yellowstone area. Dependent upon which “tangent” one chooses to go down, my “over-all” search area COULD be quite vast – almost as large as the West Yellowstone areas – so certainly things could have been missed.

            I am not putting down any ones search area – West Yellowstone/Gallitin/Big Sky area has a LOT going for it.

            I was just ribbin’ Jake a bit. Jake and I have kidded each other about our individual search areas for the last couple of years. Sorry if I ruffled a feather or two.

            We each believe in our search area, and in our solve. I believe in mine, Jake believes in his, and Dal, you believe in yours. YEA for us all!!! JDA

          • Dal- the incredibly important detail folks are missing is the fact that any and all boots on the ground search will yield Forrest Fenns treasure…the great outdoors. the chest of the poem is another matter entirely.

            I think.

          • Dal- I put together some guidelines for scoring the photos submitted by searchers for the “Boots on the Ground” photo contest. yes, I said scoring, no judges for this contest. each photo can be scored based on….

            the photo is from the rocky mountains north of santa fe…10 pts
            the photo contains one or more “blazes”…10 pts for each blaze.
            the photo contains both feet…..10 pts.
            the photo does not show your face…10 pts.
            the boots in your photo are muddy… 10 pts.
            the boots in your photo are stained with bear scat…50 pts.

            10 points will be subtracted from each photo for the following reasons…
            bare feet.
            socked feet.
            feet in the air.
            any part of your body is shown above the knees.
            it is determined that the searcher is “dancing”.
            empty boots.

            my personal photo scores at 60 points, Dal can verify this. I challenge all searchers to beat 60 points.

        • Regardless of when botg is needed, you still need to know what the heck you’re supposed to do. “beforehand”
          ~Nail down wwh or don’t go…
          ~certain of the location of the path…

          Kings and queens aside, there are more joksters around than the deck can hold.
          LOL I never expect you would take any ideas, theories, advise, suggestions from me, Jakster. Heck ya don’t take fenn’s advise either… Not under water.

          • Seeker said: “Regardless of when botg is needed”.

            I cannot go past your statement.
            It puts me back to a place in my mind that contradicts what F said.

            I can’t disregard BOTG.
            It’s what’s needed to solve the deal and that’s what it’s all about whether you know it or not.
            Smell grizzly poo. You can’t do it without being there.

            What about those 3 statements/emails that were posted about the treasure not being “in water” that F made and had posted?

            OH! all of a sudden it’s “under water” when everything here on Earth is under water.
            See those clouds up there?
            They are composed of water aren’t they?

            There’s a jokster alright and that’s the tail your following.

          • Jake ~ ‘OH! all of a sudden it’s “under water” when everything here on Earth is under water.
            See those clouds up there?
            They are composed of water aren’t they?’
            Ummm what?
            Is that your attempt to flip flop on your whining about the “not under water” comment. All that was, is a belly flop.
            Walk in all the poo ya like… a griz may even find you interesting and have you over for dinner and candle light under a starry night. Unless there’s a lot of water floating overhead.

          • Seeker,
            When you finally get out of that chair and into the wood with BOTG then, and only then, I will give you a logical answer.
            ATF’s contradict many times over and you even know this.

            For now it’s Not far but too far to talk.

          • Jake ~’ATF’s contradict many times over and you even know this.’

            Show them, point them out, put up the quote you are talking about… actually have a conversation, instead of blowing hot air.

          • Oh yea, let me see here, I’ll dig up all the contradictions just for you.

            You dig, and while you’re at it, you may find your statements where you just contradicted yourself in your last statement…LOL…

            Just get out of that high chair.

          • Seeker, The ATF’s contradictions by Fenn have been pointed out many times here on this blog and others by you as well.

            OK, we all tend to forget things and need to be reminded of our….
            Help?

        • JDA,
          It doesn’t matter how many searches.
          It only matters if your searching in the right place.
          Your scenery hasn’t changed much in the last 3 years.
          You have searched that place to the max.
          I’m really surprised you haven’t loosened the reins to some of the younger crew and let them lead you to a more successful area.

          Let those kids read the books at some time and you will have to be willing to let the younger generation take control at some point.
          You can guide them but let them blaze the trail.
          It may be time for them while we sit back and see them blossom.

          • Hi Jake;

            My “Team” is just that – a team. Every member has the right to express an opinion or idea. All have read all three books, and some of the ATF comments.

            All have offered suggestions. Yes, I DO come up with MOST of the solve ideas, but we have all shared in the searches, and shared in coming up with differing and different ideas.

            A couple have worked out really well, and offered insights that have proved valuable.

            Are we getting closer? I think so. Maybe we will all soon know – At least we can all dream – JDA

          • JDA,
            Every team has to have a leader and that is you.
            You are the filter as some have suggested here in other ways.

            You are the nucleus and the final word seeing you brought them into this with your idea and wisdom.

            There comes a time when the student surpasses the teacher and the teacher has to see this, and let the student start fresh from scratch without any starting point from the teacher or any input from the teacher at all.

            Have you done this yet? The time should come soon.

            I’ll bet your students or tribe have thoughts in other places as yours and I hope not in NM but MT the treasure state.
            I hope they read this.

            You said: “A couple have worked out really well, and offered insights that have proved valuable.”

            Valuable is only proven in value to something that has value whether monetary or to the chase but cannot be proven valuable until the deed is done.

            Valuable is only what it is, to the person that says it is otherwise it’s not valuable and in this case when the treasure is not found it’s non valuable.

          • I am beginning to think Faulker is an alias for McNutt.

            The blog is for the Thrill of the Chase, not the I have to give opinions on how everyone else is wrong and should do things my way (even with how they work as a group). Forrest doesn’t do that. I personally am getting tired of seeing a spike in negativity starting to pop up on this blog and want to see more of things like helping JDiggins, more cheering other searchers on, and more constructive comments and less opinions on assumptions. You realize in your above statement to JDA you have no question marks. You assumed everything in that based on his blog posts and gave opinions as such. There is nothing wrong with having ideas, but make sure people actually want them before putting them in the public domain.

            Essentially you could call what you have been doing as:

            Thrillplaining

            On topic for this page now:

            Anyone else really curious about Forrest’s gut, does it waver in both directions?

          • WOW Idle Dreamer!
            I did not say anything negative about you but you have about me.

            I hope you’re not in law enforcement where they try to deescalate the situation instead of escalating it.

            I’m not a cheerleader and your comment was negative towards me even though you stated: ” I personally am getting tired of seeing a spike in negativity starting to pop up on this blog”

            You just added to it.
            2 negatives do not equal a positive unless it’s in math.
            Maybe this page will be closed soon & bury this ugly escalation.

    • Yellowstone is accessible by Snowmobile most of the winter, (and most trails) and snowshoe and ski all other times, with or without the snowmobile.

      it is very clear what ff said and meant, that you can get to the TC in “any weather”. he did not say it would be just as easy to get to as in the summer, it does mean if the road is closed in the winter, then it will be a much longer “walk”.

      that is all.

    • Ken Texas

      Retrieve it in any weather means we can can get to the point he parked his car. I sgree with you.

      Some don’t like the idea because they have a solve that can’t be reached by road in winter.

      I don’t know that we are right. I only know Fenn said it.

      Lugnutz

    • Much of Yellowstone can be accessed by snowmobile, or snowshoeing in the winter. If someone knows exactly where it is without a doubt I don’t think weather would stop them. If I had to walk from San Diego to the spot in winter I would do it if I knew for sure it was there.

    • Hi Ken,
      IMO There are a few other things that we should be looking for.

      ” And what if no one ever discovers my art? Will my time have been wasted? I guess the rewards have been in doing it, and the enjoyment that comes with dreaming about what might happen someday.” f

      It’s not just the treasure we are looking for.
      -B

      • Well Birdie…that I am sure is debatable. I’ve been a nature boy just like all of my previous generations and *admire* everything about the outdoors….except those that come along and abuse it…and pretend to know how it works. That said…Fenn’s Chase came along at a time that suits where I am at in life and I couldn’t think of a better challenge for my later years. I’m in no hurry and certainly don’t see any urgency in running into the Rocky Mts. Enjoy….

  56. Fenn said: “The poem is straight forward with no subterfuge in sight”. I don’t believe it involves complex ciphering or hidden coordinates. The chest is just very well hidden. To put it in perspective a child born on the day that Fenn published TTotC would be attending the 3rd grade this year.
    The chest may be in a simple place accessible by an 80 year old but don’t kid yourselves, even if you are smart enough to get within the “proximaty” it will still be very difficult to find.
    The time it has remained hidden proves that fact. Next time you are at your search zone try imagining that you are playing hide and seek with a 3rd grader. That’s my plan. 🙂
    IMO.

  57. LingeringDoubt,
    I promise not to end-run you and I don’t ever share ideas with others unless I came up with the idea myself. Would love to hear your solve. Might have some suggestions to help you with it. You can message me at butterflygarden00 at yahoo dot com.

  58. Forrest has said with regard to the chase to….simplify

    I find it a coincidence that that sounds a lot like Semper Fi ….

    it’s a coincidence right?

    1F Billy

      • To my ear simplify sounds more like “simmer high.”

        Which smells like bacon.

        Which tastes like a *simplified* version of bacon and eggs.

        So it’s self-confirming – you can take it to the bank.

        Jak3

        • Genius! I abandon my solve and start anew in search of bacon and eggs:)

          Everyone who is wise should do the same!

        • Jake –

          Try the quote

          “Try to simplify if you can”

          And I think he either said Here’s a clue “*”

          Or “*” that’s a clue.

          There is a rythum to the chase. If you are reading a number of chasers are thinking about instances where Forrest nentions jars or cans.

          Lugnutz

          • In what sense are you proposing “there is a rhythm to the chase”, Lugz? There’s a rhythm to any endeavor, no? What are you trying to point out (or put your finger on) in terms of this particular endeavor?

            I was thinking more along the lines of “if we had some bacon we could have bacon and eggs, if we had any eggs.”

            Jars and cans had a point originally, but lost all significance once ff came right out and said Idaho and Utah were off the field. I wasn’t aware anyone was still thinking about them.

            Jake

          • Jake –

            The Chase began with a few people searching in New Mexico and Yellowstone. Over time the areas that the collective searches has moved. In 2017 there was a lot of focus on Montana. As new ideas and new people came into the community of chasers there was a move to those new areas.

            In 2018, as pointed out by Jeremy two days ago on THoR, is the year of Yellowstone/Wyoming. Another chaser had asked recently why so many people seem to be focusing on Wyoming. Some people are able to move with that flow, some get stuck in their own head.

            Fenn says that “Try to simplify if you can” is a clue right? I am pointing out to you that although many are focused on the word simplify, the “clue” may actually be related to the word “can” and the way that it is presented.

            These are my opinions based on careful observation of the relationship between Fenn and the Chase community, in particular at the HoD.

            Lugnutz

          • So the migrations of the chasers. An analog to Hopi, Zuni etc migration myths, *In Search of Center Place*. Okay.

            As for the other bit, if he’d said “Well I will give you a clue – try and simplify if you *jar*, that’s good advice” it’d be a slam dunk.

            So maybe he’s saying

            “By “simplify if you can” I really mean “look at every little abstract thing that might catch up in your brain.” ”

            [and don’t forget to gather up any “aberrations that live out on the edge” – as long as it’s only a couple]

            May well turn out to be the One True Way forward.

            There’s just not enough room left upstairs in my belfry for me to give that “every little abstract thing” a try without losing my way altogether.

            Jake

          • Try to simplify if you can is not advice from Fenn.

            It is a clue. He said so.

            What do you think the clue is referencing?

            Lugnutz

          • * * * * ABC Nightline Jan 2018:

            Sandell: Is there any tiny little hint, any tiny little clue you’d like to leave us with? . . . [aside] He’s thinking about it . . .

            FF: No

            Sandell: Okay

            FF: Well, I will give you a clue. Try to simplify if you can. That’s good advice.

            * * * * * (caveat – the video’s not working for me, so I haven’t been able to verify the above transcript)

            So to answer your question, Lug, all I think that “clue” is referencing is good advice. I don’t think you can persuade me it references anything more, certainly not code for “go back and read everything I’ve written and pay attention to the cans and jars.”

            But I’ll keep reading. What do *you* think the clue is referencing?

            Jake

  59. Hi guys, just wanted to throw something out there. Most of my emails today have been a bunch of men having a pissin contest over who’s right & who’s wrong. Everything on this site is someone’s opinion, except when Mr. Fenn chimes in. One of the reasons I like this place is because everyone showed respect to others. Lately that hasn’t been so & that’s disappointing on so many levels. My mom always told me, if ya can’t say anything nice… I wanted to leave y’all with one of my favourite quotes. Hopefully the next time you want to talk down to someone you will think of these words.

    ” Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that its stupid.”
    Albert Einstein

    -B

    • -B

      the fish will believe itself is stupid or will the fish believe that fish climbing trees is stupid?

    • Time spent reading Einstein quotes or Yogi Berra quotes is time well spent. Also some of them might sound very familiar.

      “We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.” – Albert Einstein

      “There are some people who, if they don’t already know, you can’t tell ’em.” –Yogi Berra

      “A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be.” – Albert Einstein

      “It was impossible to get a conversation going, everybody was talking too much.”– Yogi Berra

      “The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.” – Albert Einstein

      “If you ask me anything I don’t know, I’m not going to answer.” –Yogi Berra

      And if some of their quotes sound familiar from the sources usually cited here,

      “The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.” – Albert Einstein

      “I never said most of the things I said.” — Yogi Berra

    • Don’t know bout this ‘Albert Einstein’ feller. Does he host one of them ‘chat’ thingies over there on that youtube website? If he’s not hosting one of them there ‘chat’ thingies, I can’t imagine that he has much to offer humanity or is very intelligent. Otherwise, he’d be hosting them there ‘chat’ thingies over on youtube. That’s what all the smart fellers do, you know.

  60. IMO
    Either way it’s been told fish don’t belong in trees or it wouldn’t feel that way.

    -B

  61. Zaphod73491. There is a genius way in which Forrest gives us a strong push (BIWWWH) that ultimately pulls us away from the correct path to the solve. (I’ve spent 1000x the amount of energy looking at Stanza 2 as I have Stanza 1).

    I’ve spent the past day trying to find and read several of your comments. You (and a few others) talk about a hint in Stanza 1 that helps you decide which WWWH is correct.

    For the life of me, I cannot “see” (or hear) a hint that leads to any geographic location. I was hoping you might be able to give a hint as to how you discovered your hint?

    • Hi misfit22: a hint that I’ve posted here before was to investigate how the solution to Kit Williams’ Masquerade worked. IMO, Forrest implemented a variation on that technique.

      • If I have to know “Kit Williams’ Masquerade” for a hint to help with the clues then I’m screwed.

        • I had no idea Google is available to all. Thanks Zap.
          Oh what a lovely day it is today.
          Did you see that stretched tangent?
          Google Earth is what will help as far as I know.
          Throw that rabbit a carrot while you’re there.

        • Zap,

          I can’t help but think that *look at the big picture” is GM or GE as it is made of a few thousand satellite pictures all rolled into one giant map. I wonder how many paper maps there are that covers the four states, and how big of a table it would take for all of those maps that have limited boundaries on each one. No I’m not talking about road maps that have limited information.

          Wasn’t ff surprised how many searchers that went right off the bat to use GM. I wonder also if ff used GM in helping in creating the poem as it was around prior to the release of TTOTC with its poem.

          I will say, there is a strong possibility that the *big picture* is GM and a little bit less was used to build the poem.

          Just Say’n

        • Jake: I fail to see what your sarcasm brings to the table. If you don’t want to pursue an idea I’ve shared — at the request of another searcher, I hasten to add — then why not ignore it?

          • So you fed the rabbit to give him more strength to dig a deeper hole.

            The best way to stop the hole from getting deeper is to starve or kill the rabbit.

            Someday you will see what sarcasm brings to the table.
            It may just be a rabbit with crow as a side dish. I like mine well done with a carrot in its mouth.

            Criticism is not your strongest point.
            Bow wow boo hoo.
            What’s up doc?

          • Jake: At least three other searchers over the years have figured out my hints and uncovered for themselves what’s hiding in the first stanza (and elsewhere). I have encouraged you to at least make an attempt to do the same, but you won’t even try, apparently because you think it’s a rabbit hole. Suit yourself.

        • OK, a little more than 20 seconds, Zap, at least for those of us mortals who’ve never heard of Kit Williams before …

          • Hi Linda: fair enough, 20 seconds was a bit of an exaggeration. But reading the relevant portions of the Wiki page about the book only takes a few minutes. What takes longer is figuring out what Forrest did (allegedly, in my opinion) that was similar but more difficult.

            I have my doubts that Forrest had ever heard of Masquerade when he wrote his poem; I only used it as an example because it provided an underlying technique for concealing information in plain sight.

          • Lugnutz: I think a couple illustrations have subtle hints, but nothing I found until long after settling on my basic solution. So that is not the kind of connection to Masquerade I’m hinting at (i.e. no hands/digits pointing at letters around the perimeter of a page).

          • Hi Lug: I thought maybe that’s where you were going with it. That would be very problematic to pull off without Forrest being the illustrator, or Allen Polt being completely in on it.

        • Oz10: something else. Geothermal hotspot and/or high CO2 that killed the trees in close proximity to a vent?

          • Hi Oz10: a combination of things — it is Yellowstone, after all, ;-), and the feature is too circular to be a meteorite impact pit. So Occam’s Razor, mostly.

          • Yeah, makes sense. There is a similar one 2.4 miles to the south. Not a good spot to be too long…

          • Oz10: when I checked out those coordinates on GM yesterday, I didn’t turn on “3D” until after you mentioned how deep that hole is. Impressive. Reminds me of what an ant lion trap looks like.

    • Misfit22, I was also one that has recently spoke of a possibility of a hint in the first stanza so I’ll add my approach.

      One thing I see other searchers do with the first stanza is take one line of it (or a portion of a line) and try to come up with a solution from just that line, whichever line they are working with.

      My approach is to see a possibility from taking the big picture view of all the lines in stanza one. In the correct order they are written. To me, it tells in a condensed form of a distinct story that happened in the Rocky Mountains. In a way, I think it’s like a recipe that tells the crucial indgredients of the story. There is one distinct geographical location that can be easily understood from that.

      • I agree with Fundamental Design,
        I believe stanza 1 tells a condensed version of a story that took place in the Rocky Mountains. IMO, it is the story of how the TC location was created by Mother Nature.

        • I am amazed by your comment! How did you come to this conclusion? This blows me away to infinity…and beyond!

        • Zap, Flutterby, FD: thank you all for your responses. I’m still relatively new to the search (~6 weeks) and it’s helpful to see how others have approached a solution. The glaring fundamental flaw of this particular search seems to be that the prize is so high that none-to-few are willing to share any of their thoughts or strategy leading most-to-all toward significant confirmation bias w/o the benefits of a sounding board to throw their ideas.

          I wonder how quickly one person could move toward the right idea if the top 5-8 longtime posters on these boards were to reveal their full, true thinking on the matters and cooperatively move toward a solution.

          Again, I appreciate the responses, helping us newbies keeps more people interested and hopefully, someday, we’ll have done enough searching so we can throw some juicy morsels back to you.

          • misfit-
            Before you accuse others of not sharing, you need to read other searchers adventures on this blog. There are dozens of solutions and theories posted by searchers in places all over the rockies.

          • misfit, I understand your thoughts. I have noticed the fundamental flaw that you speak of.
            I think it’s important to find ways to take the flaw and turn it into an advantage.

            (none to few out of 350,000 equals a dozen).

            Glad to help as that is a big part of being in this community!

          • Misfit22;

            Just an opinion – Read between the lines. I have been searching 31 months, and have made 20 trips to my site. Does that make me an “Old-timer?” Maybe.

            Will I tell you my WWWH? Nope. Will I tell you what logic I used to find my WWWH? YUP – I have on several occasions. – You have to read my logic, use it, and I MAY see you on the same trail – or not.

            Will I tell you my hoB? – Nope, but if you can figure out my WWWH – there is only one logical “Canyon Down” and if you do not go too far, you might be able to figure out my hoB – read between the lines is my best advice if you are looking for “Answers” on the blog. Keep in mind that NONE of us have found Indulgence – so maybe the best advice is to just figure it out yourself – YOU just might be the one to figure it ALL out – JMO – JDA

          • misfit22,
            I think you need to walk a mile in the moccasins of a Searcher who has logged hundreds, if not thousands of hours in research, conversations and BOTG experiences, and also read this and other blogs, to understand Dal’s comment.

            As for a sounding board, personally, I have felt that the best sounding board consisted of people who were not involved in the Chase, who could see through an objective, if not somewhat skeptical, lens. Those folks can point only to flaws in your logic, without their own search biases interfering with their interpretation of your solution.

            I think one person can solve this. In fact, it is my opinion, based on reading the last 5 or so Q&A’s from Jenny’s site, that one person has solved it but has yet to retrieve the chest, for whatever reason. That day may be coming as there are about 40 days left in summer.

            For me, the next BOTG experience will be one where I will be able to move forward with confidence. Whether that can be done within the next 40 days remains to be seen. Until then, as I continue to refine my solution, I am also preparing for an announcement.

            Regards,

            CJ

          • cj- I have solved the poem, and taken (photo) the chest. the reason I have not retrieved the chest is because it cannot be retrieved and in fact the poem does not say to retrieve the chest the poem states clearly to TAKE the chest (a photo). this photo of the chest of the poem is on the thread “a fun safe side trip” by me. the chest of the poem is not the bronze box, I think.

            how’s that for an announcement cj?

  62. Source: https://forum.hintofriches.com/forum…e-is-his-heart

    Some recent you tubers have repeated your quote that “your heart is in yellowstone” can you clarify if your heart has also been in New Mexico? If so, where?

    My heart is in Yellowstone in the summertime, my heart is in New Mexico in the wintertime. f

    • Thanks Oz10. So, no heart in Colorado…got it. Also, important to note the chest was hidden in the summer and not in the winter….got it. IMO its just more confirmation from ff for those willing to listen. On a side note, I hope ff gets to see an exciting finish to the PGA Championship today! Dave

      • Case closed Dave!
        You are on the track and never go back.
        Yellowstone area it is!!!

    • Maybe we should listen better… If his heart can be in New Mexico as much as Wyoming, then the time spent in those 2 places is not a gauge on his desire to rest there for eternity. Couple that with the other quote about never saying he spent a great deal of time in the nearest town to the spot and then we have a better picture. I guess we all hear what we want to hear, simple as that.

      • Hi Oz10, Maybe that is true for you…about hearing what you want to…but not for me. I am a Colorado searcher so this is exactly opposite of what I wanted to hear. But I am not letting my bias towards Colorado cloud my judgement and logic. Its now clear as day to me…its not in Colorado and most likely not in New Mexico. What’s your bias and how is that impacting what you hear? Dave PS All ff said is ‘that was not my quote’ about the article that stated he spent time in the town nearest the treasure. He in no way denies it is true…he simply says that his not his quote…which of course would be true if the statement is not 100% verbatim what he said to the reporter. It is possible the reporter just made the whole thing up…no doubt. However, ‘my heart has ALWAYS been in Yellowstone’ was on video tape. No denying it. I noticed the question to ff from THOR convenient left off the word ‘always’ in the question thus leaving ff open to allowing for his heart to be in NM in the winter. LOL Dave

        • Dave, maybe you are right and that seems to be the popular opinion now. There is almost a collective effort pushing the Yellowstone theme. I’m just trying to stay neutral, and not fall for confirmation bias.

          Most searches were done in New Mexico and the Yellowstone area from the start, and like Dal mentioned here recently, it is highly probable that those who were closer to the chest were in one of those two areas. I agree with that. Let the poem take us to the right spot.

      • Oz10,
        You’re right, we should listen better.
        He did not mention Wyoming.
        He mentioned “Yellowstone” which is in Montana, Idaho and Wyoming.
        We need to listen better.
        The treasure might be in Idaho, right?

    • Thank you for the post and link, Oz10. I think with Mr. Fenn, we can look at his comment and ask ourselves different questions. He mentions summertime and wintertime and see opposites; pole-to-pole. We could ask why we don’t see the other two seasons; spring and fall. Spring and fall may indicate two falls like that of the Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone. When he speaks of his heart, does he speak of physical and emotional? It’s fun trying to figure out what he means when he says them.

  63. “..and water high”

    Forrest mentions in the Important Literature chapter of TTOTC that people looked up to famous authors like Hemingway ect.

    Maybe “water high” is a body of water named after a famous author?

    He also said he looked up to Skippy

    Maybe it is a body of water Skippy and Forrest visited together?

    Any thoughts?

    • cluesfromphilly,,
      Your suggestion would not allow someone to solve with only the poem. Since FF has said that all we need is the poem and a good map, but TTOTC might help; the correct solution must be able to be figured out without anything but the poem & map. I think that it’s fine to look for hints in the book but if a person could not arrive at bv the solution without the book, the solution can’t be right. IMO

      • Flutterby ~’ Since FF has said that all we need is the poem and a good map, but TTOTC might help; …’

        It’s interesting about the ATF’s concerning ‘maps’ Some of which are;
        The more detailed the better, if you have the “right map”
        fenn being surprised by how many started “looking at maps” when the book came out.
        And
        “GE ‘and/or’ a good map.”

        Ya kinda have to wonder, if GE is good enough on its own… what ‘maps’ are good/right on their own as well? Lets face some facts… GE didn’t hit the public until the early 2000s. [2004 I believe, but it doesn’t really matter]

        So how important is a map/GE to actually solving anything? With the thought that fenn started the poem shortly after the onset of cancer… [ lets give it a couple years and say 1990, just for a safety net ]… and took 15 years on and off to write the poem [ lets play it safe and bring it up to 2005ish, for example ]

        It would seem a map/GE is only for the purpose of marking a route, and/or, locating only already ‘known’ deciphered clues… right? And we might be able to kick-out maps that would be older than GE when presented to the public, as a needed map [older one], line of thinking.

        When fenn came out with these [ and other ATFs ] My very first thought went to GE… lol, most of my maps were looked up on the internet, and some as early as the 1800’s early 1900s and up… only, GE doesn’t go back in time [ before the early 2000’s ].

        This brings up the question of; what are the “more details” of a “right map” we should be looking for/at -?- and does imagination kick into high gear at this point -?- “mapping”
        Or only in the field? Observing.
        Or only in deciphering the poem’s clues?

        So should GE be good enough… what types of “details” do we turn on or off?
        Cuz, GE is simply pictures of the planet [with zoom in, and later [2007ish], street view capabilities].

        • Seeker;

          You bring up a couple of good points.

          For my final solve, I had to locate certain land features on a TOPO map and then find the same features on GE before I was happy. Using GE alone would not have shown me what I was looking for – I would have over-looked the needed features had I relied on GE alone.

          Only be finding the features first, on a TOPO, was I able to focus in on the needed land features using GE – Just my experience – JDA

          • good morning JDA finding the right map may be harder then finding the right wwwh at least he didn’t say you need a good cup of coffee and a light bulb in your thinker if that were the case id need to turn my light bulb back on then again he says its right in front of us for all to see good day to all

          • JDA,

            fenn knows the area like the back of his hand.. did the poem by memory.
            My point was IF GE can stand on its own… {the GE “and/or” good map comment} Why is it we should have a map with “more details… the right map” In the agent 777 comment? when GE is just as good.

            You said you used a topo map and basically used GE as a second opinion of the topo map. Ok great. Dun’ it meself.
            But does a map give us ‘answers’ to the correct location[s]?
            Because IF that is how the idea of looking at maps works in the idea of solving the poem… then the book can only ‘suggest locations’ that have been talked about.

            So hypothetically, in the chapter ~ In love with YS ~ is the only time CO. is ‘implied’ [I think] because of the 1600 mile trip from TX to MT with a side trip to WY… yet no real mention of CO. in the chapter.
            Do we eliminate the state and its maps because of this? ~ IF maps gives us answers that will decipher a clue’s references/location?

            Or can it be that a map/GE is really only ‘helpful ~ with deciphering’ the combination of the first two clues only?
            The ‘need to know where to start’ idea.

          • I know Seeker has paid attention…I have alluded to the idea that Fenn has mentioned his *surprise* that folks immediately started using GE and other maps to find their special spots. This was an earlier comment from him and really no others on *using maps* previous. With that in mind…and this quoted comment from Margie’s HuffPost article from 8/23/2011; “One man asked if he should buy a topographical map and I told him he would be better served reading the book again.” And then; ” All you have to do is think about the nine clues and follow them in order.”
            These comments seem to predate the concept of Fenn’s recipe of The poem, TTOTC, GE and/or a good map. My thinking is that Fenn’s original thinking did not include maps to be an *accessory* to solving the clues and figuring out *where* wwwh is. I think there is a more direct line to the so-called *answers*…keeping in mind that Fenn directly says that the *answers* are not in his book.

          • Seeker;

            I have no answers. All I have is my process. A process that may or may not be correct.

            OK, Begin it WWWH – well where is that? Which, among hundred, thousands or even millions is the right wwwh? For me, the answer came from my interpretation of “the wood.” My interpretation led me to a specific geographical feature in Wyoming.

            This eliminated three states.

            “If you are brave…” This clue or hint narrowed down where I looked in Wyoming – In the general area of my geographical feature. A closer look in the general area of my geographical feature revealed my wwwh. I was now down to a single TOPO with which to work.

            Studying the TOPO, studying the poem, reading TToTC and ATF’s brought into focus a much smaller area on my TOPO.

            Is this the “Right” process? Heck if I know, but I feel that it is. Each trip out, I learn something new about my area, and about the secrets embedded in both the poem and in the hints. I DO feel that I am getting closer. Only time and at least one more search will tell. The Blaze(s) is/are still out there. The markers that I need are still out there for me to find. If I can find them – I will find Indulgence.

            In “My War for Me” Forrest talked about finding the French grave markers. The markers I am talking about are different – Maybe a line in TToTC or a word in the poem, or a thought in an ATF comment – Who knows what form these “markers” will take?

            Just rambling – JDA

          • JDA,
            I agree about the maps. I just can’t get GE to do what I need. I’m using combinations of topographic and GM.

          • Seeker, I think you’re on to something when you asked above is Colorado in the mix since it’s implied from the passage you posted. I think that’s where the hints are…in an implied manner that don’t actually tell of the correct answer. The searcher has to make the connection and find the easy and correct answer.

          • Seeker – No mystery, use the poem, it takes you to them when you know how to use it 🙂

        • WhyMustIGo,
          I didn’t get the quote wrong. FF has made many comments about the book. I was referring to another quote. I’m traveling again and don’t have my quote handy. But I assure you that he has said we only need the poem and map, but the hints in book “might help” if we can recognize them. Like I said, I’m traveling today. Can provide the full quote when I get home unless someone else has it handy.

          • Hey-O, Flutterbee

            Your original statement(s) –

            ” . . . FF has said that all we need is the poem and a good map, but TTOTC might help//hints might help if we can recognize them.”

            can be reconstructed, sort of, from the following:

            “All of the information *you need* to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker.” ff

            “Excellent research materials are TotC, Google Earth and/or a *good map*.” ff

            Q – Are there subtle hints in the book?
            A – “Yes, if you can *recognize them*.” ff

            Sources –
            HoD – Is The Book Important? (Note that tarryscant.com has the wrong link for this quote)
            HoD – Scrapbook 62
            HoD – Scrapbook 35

            I don’t have a cite that has all your bits in one place, but as Wymigo’s video nicely demonstrates, there are lots of variations on the theme, and that of course invites subtly accented paraphrases.

            Would love to see a different quote if what you’re thinking of still isn’t covered.

            Jake

          • Flutterby, yes you did get it wrong, you said “TTOTC might help” and that is not what Forrest said, in fact he said the opposite, he said (many times) that the HINTS in TTOTC will help you with the clues.

            He never used the word “might”, if you think he did then I suggest you back it up with the exact quote like I did.

            “Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map. f”

            See my video for about 6 or 7 times he said to use the book to get the hints that WILL help with the clues.

            Please don’t spread misinformation.

          • Bottom line is this becomes a silly debate because the facts are:

            + There are hints in the book, they ARE DELIBERATELY PLACED – The “chapters” are not deliberately placed to aid the searcher. Hints are in TTOTC – Not my words, Forrest’s words.

            + Forrest says – repeatedly – To read the poem AND TTOTC over and over to find the hints that WILL HELP with the clues. – Not my words, Forrest’s words.

            So the choice is easy, either you want to use the hints that will help with the clues… Or you want to run without the hints and do things the hard way…

            What is there to debate about that? You either use them, or you don’t. They are not “required” to solve the poem, but they are there and they are designed to help solve the poem.

            So why debate it? I’ve already shown a video in Forrest Fenn’s words that contains 7 (i think) specific quotes where he tells us exactly how to best solve the poem. Now considering he is the only person alive who knows where the treasure is, does it make sense to ignore his suggestion? No, it doesn’t at all, in fact it is foolish.

            So what is the point of ignoring the hints that we know are there and will help with the clues? Is it some kind of “I am a cool rebel” thing? hehe, I don’t get it!

            I been on this for four years, and last year I realized the reason why the chest has not been found. Know why? Because nobody listens to Forrest, instead they debate if the book is helpful or not when that is foolish, the man who designed the hunt told us IT IS USEFUL, but not required.

            What did I do? I went back to just the poem and TTOTC since August 2017. Guess what, it is working like a charm since I started listening and working hard so that I know that poem better than Forrest. I know the grammar, the punctuation, the rhyme scheme, and I think I now know a complete solution up to and including the blaze as of today. Can I prove it? Nope, not yet, maybe never if I decide I do not want to tell anyone, that is my choice not Fenn’s IF I find it. But am I right about the hints being useful? Yes, and I have proven it right now and right here in this post.

    • I agree with Flutterby. To take it a step further, Forrest says that the book contains subtle hints so IMO this means to use those hints as more confirmation for your solve.

      Fenn said:
      “Here is what I would do. Read my book in a normal manner. Then read the poem over and over and over, slowly – thinking. Then read my book again, this time looking for subtle hints that will help solve the clues.”

      I believe it is will be very hard to recognize one of these subtle “book” hints without first theorizing about the poem and identifying a few things for yourself. Its a slippery slope because you then have to struggle with confirmation bias but I always ask myself this, “Would this hint be obvious to a child in the same manner I’m looking at it?” If a kid can’t get it, I question my resolve for that being a hint…It keeps you honest to some degree.
      Always IMO

      • Just out of curiosity, Treasure Happy, What age group, limits, defined a ‘kid’?
        I mean, you won’t get the same answers from a group of 8 year olds vs. 15 year olds or vs. 18…or a five year old…
        Many searchers have said; I showed my ‘kid{s}’ the poem and they said this or that… I have to wonder if they told them {kids} to read the book first?

        • Fair question Seeker. Not sure I can answer what age group adequately because I only use this exercise to compliment a potential hint from the book. I do not actually ask any kids the question, but use my perception of how a kid (if I had to guess, maybe the knowledge of a 5th or 6th grader) might respond. I don’t have any kids so the process of even asking would be a production in itself Lol.

          The application of the exercise is to keep things simple and I ask myself a few quick questions when trying to tie in hints from the book. I think the time spend answering you has been longer than the deductive reasoning process I spend on a hint in TTOTC! The bulk of my time is spent on the poem and BOTG because hints from the book are not in any specific order and subtle. This makes them harder to recognize IMO and also supports why Forest says to read the poem over and over. Heck, most of us over complicate the poem by itself, much less another 148 pages of information.

          Here is the way I see it…Me trying to recognize and support a hint in a book based on a self generated interpretation for a poem is like writing a review on creme brulee from a picture I took but never tasting it to really know. I might get lucky and describe it somewhat accurately, but chances are not in my favor. We’re all guessing till we’re not, right?!

          • I disagree somewhat with what Treasure Happy has explained.

            Just because f has said the hints in the book are subtle doesn’t necessarily mean the correct answer to each hint isn’t well worth the effort and relatively easy to discern. Cause the alternative is to try and figure out the correct starting point without those hints and I believe that approach is subtle times a thousand (read- harder to recognize).

            After all, this is what the use of a hint is for. A hint is something that helps divulge the intended secret (generally if taken in the same context as the Chase).

            It’s interesting that f hasn’t answered a question of have searchers properly identified any of your hints in the Chase? Is it because no one has asked or it would reveal too much if affirmative?

          • Fun Design
            I want to make sure I’m clear on this point. I’m not saying that you shouldn’t work on finding hints in the book because it is futile (Sorry if it sounded that strong in the positive). I’m making the case that:
            1. I think finding these hints without first coming up with an idea for a solve will make it very, very tough.
            2. The amount of time spent on hints in the book should be addressed with how much time one should spend between the poem and BOTG.
            3. IMO, Chances are not great that it is actually a hint if it connects dots in a very complicated manner.

            The last thing I want to do is suggest anytime spent on the book is wasted so please don’t take that away from the previous post. I hope everyone brings their own originality and creativity to the chase. My grandpa always told me, “the only person that doesn’t make mistakes is the one that does nothing…” so I say swing away!

          • No problem, Treasure Happy.

            There is one thing I think is good to bring up when the ‘hint’ topic comes up. It’s that looking for the hints has always been the subject of f’s best advice for serious searchers to find the tc (his words).

            In regards to your number 1)…I agree with you. But it doesn’t reflect how very, very, very hard it could be to find the tc without finding the hints…in this sense, it’s relative.

          • Fun Design
            Very true, any information that can be used to solidify a strong solve will have elements of the book connecting to the poem. For clarity, I have made 4 connections (hints) so far from the book to the poem and I’m sure there are many more….

    • that would be herbgen lake or how ever you spell it they visited that lake often i walked the banks found old cabins in the woods Skippy landed the plane there if i recall right I might be wrong

  64. Jake, IMO, “no paddle up your creek” is not referring to a creek on a map. This is where you must apply some imagination. Yes, the words mean what they say. But, do you know what they say? I do! IMO

  65. Flutterby – its my opinion only – that to know what no paddle up your creek really means you have to know what is wwwh. you have a creek you have a canyon and you have a highway – you take it in going one direction then you come to a dead end – no paddle only means is do not attempt to go around and continue on the same direction you were coming from – its making you turn in another direction to where the other clues to the treasure chest are the creek ends at the dead end – good luck and have fun—-frank

    • it could also mean you wont get the paddled or in trouble for traveling up your creek remember this term in the past meant your going to jail up a creek without a paddle a

    • Frank,
      I agree that you must know WWWH in order to understand “no paddle up your creek”. You said “you have a creek, you have a canyon, you have a highway”. The poem doesn’t tell me anything about a highway. And I believe “no paddle up your creek” is a bit of a play on words. A very creative way to describe a location. IMO

  66. Dal,

    The above didn’t give a “reply” button, so posting down here.

    I’m confused how you can read my response and lead with “Before you accuse others of not sharing.”

    First paragraph leads with: “thank you all for your responses.”
    Last paragraph leads with: “Again, I appreciate the responses”
    Middle muddle expresses a desire for communal knowledge of the current thinking of other smart people.

    I’ve read many of the searches and they are extremely valuable. I was responding positively, in the moment, to several people that were being pillars of this community that you’ve created, with a full realization of the reddit-like snippishness that other members interjected directly toward other members of your community in that very same comment thread, especially with reference to rabbits and rabbit holes.
    I’m sorry that my english is so poor, that my humble gratitude, (thank you, new, helpful, seems to be, sounding board, cooperatively, appreciate, helping, newbies, interested, hopefully, (return the favor)) comes off as boorish and accusatory.

  67. Some of you might remember me from the past…. I’ve been
    in this race since 2012. I started a closed, searcher group on Face Book and our goal
    was to solve some of the hidden mysteries of the chase. One of those was
    to find the Dead Dog on the Bridge, painting by Gilbert Gaul. (page 106). One of our members picked up on it, worked very hard on it and finally said he couldn’t find it. I encouraged him to do one more thing, and sent him a e-mail to use. Then Boom…….
    We did it! Yes, he found the painting. Now, here’s an amazing thing. We accomplished this, quite a long time ago, and I
    asked everyone to keep it under their hat, and much to my wonderous, surprise, not one person, ever leaked it. Lately, there seems to be some renewed interest in the painting, so we decided, to share it. It will be posted again, on our site within the next few days and ….
    You are all invited to join.
    Congratulations to my team…..as we really do have the smartest people on the planet. If excitement is the key…..we have a great shot at
    finding the elusive treasure. Look for….. Forrest Fenn’s Treasures Galore on FB.
    Thanks for reading this…..and I wish you all the best of luck in your quest.

    • There may be those who do not have an account with Facebook, but might be interested in your find about the painting.

      • I found this back in 2013, it took about 5 minutes of googling:

        Gilbert Gaul
        (American, 1855 – 1919)
        The dead dog
        Lot 296 – Sotheby’s, New York (March 17, 1980)
        $ 1,800 USD
        £ 822 GBP
        Original Currency of Sale: $ 1,800 USD Hammer

        • Sure, but did you ever find an image of the piece?

          If so, did it match ff’s description?

          Jake

          • it is actually a grisaille type oil painting.
            *gray pigmenting*
            17×22 inches on board
            so I guess that may be a “black and white” yes/no?

          • Yes, ken.

            In oil, a grisaille can be an underpainting, a first layer for the painter to block in the lights and darks before proceeding to add color glazing detail.

            Also can be a more complete monochrome (more subtle shading, for example) if the image is intended only to be reproduced in print in b/w – there are many by Remington, for example, intended for newspaper or magazine reproduction.

            Jake

        • Dejoka/ken: I found the same a year or so ago — Sotheby’s auction of the black and white grisaille, but sadly no luck on finding an image of it anywhere. The odd thing is, I’ve *seen* that image somewhere before: a man with smoking gun on a bridge + bleeding dead dog. But it was probably 20 years ago that I saw it. Since I couldn’t find it doing a Gilbert Gaul search, I questioned whether Forrest deliberately changed the artist’s name. It wouldn’t be the first time Forrest has done so.

          Anyway, congratulations if your team was able to ferret out an image of that grisaille. I assume you’ve done likewise with the French watercolor of the fairies dancing around a rock? That one was much easier.

          • I have a similar vague recollection, Zap. But my memory is of a pen-and-ink sketch someone dug up (so black-white, but not in oil).

            I can’t now find anything to back that up – it may have been on one of the art blogs I frequent, and unrelated to the chase (but maybe suggested by the chase before I was aware of what that meant?).

            Jake

        • I believe this particular painting being highly sought out by searchers, may have brought the value of the painting to a higher level.

          • Yep. I don’t see the importance of actually seeing the painting. The fact that it exists, along with f’s description of it, is good enough for me. If any searcher really wants to see it or buy it, they know where it’s at.

          • But Dekoka: does it not at least raise an eyebrow of suspicion/curiosity that Forrest would make a point of mentioning a painting for which no one seems able to locate an image? Something’s amiss. It’s no different than calling a Wilson Hurley painting a Georgia O’Keefe (SB 7). Why rename the Henri painting “Graciella”? These aren’t the innocent mistakes of an ignorant former art dealer. Who is the audience for such aberrations? I guess I’m surprised so many searchers handwave them away.

          • Hello Zaphod. Perhaps what may be suggested for the mistakes, may be looked at as “faults”.

          • Pdenver: I’m 100% sure they’re hints, but of course can’t prove it to anyone here. I can only encourage searchers to be suspicious of such flagrant errors/faults, and to speculate on Forrest’s motivation for making them.

          • Hello Zaphod. What are your thoughts of “faults” being a hint to Earthquake Lake?

          • Pdenver: I thought you might be hinting in that direction, but didn’t want to assume. I’ll be honest: I don’t think Quake Lake has anything to do with the correct solve or even the general solve. It has obvious things going for it (1959 post-dating Forrest’s childhood and offering an explanation for the “most of the places the clues refer to” quote), but the poem has never taken me there. Is there something in the poem that draws you to that spot?

          • Zap,
            The solving of the puzzle is not going to hinge on anything that’s not readily available to all. Like I said, it exists and his description of it should suffice. It’s not like he’s describing the wrong storyline to a classic novel, when the correct storyline was already known by some and easily researchable by all.

          • Hello Zaphod. The “heavy loads and water high” may suggest the washout/delta from the quake.

          • I get a little sceptical about my own line of thinking when it gets too esoteric regarding some of the clues or things Fenn says or wrote about. However, who knows zaphod (nice handle btw!). Gotta go with your instincts. I think dejoka, you said how information had to be available to all to be relevant to the chase, but I know there are many thousands of spots, even in the wilderness where they have signs posted up about the history of a spot you’re standing by where you learn things you could almost never even find online if you tried. I strongly believe that to find the TC one must go where your initial research takes you, but it’s very likely you’ll have to stop along the way to get more detailed clues. These things can be known to all if they seek them out, but aren’t necessarily just known to all. For example, and again, I’m skeptical of the idea of the painting having any significance, but what if the chase leads you to a certain town, you visit the local historical museum,
            and the painting is there in that museum and you find out it does have some local meaning.
            Pdenver, or anyone who cares to say, had it ever occurred to anyone “Waters High” could just be referring to the old saying “come hell or high water”, as in now that you’ve got the treasure you’ve over come high water? Sort of a congratulations sort of phrase that you did it. I seem to recall several famous Western movies having that phrase.

            Also, why does this blog do this crazy narrow margin thing with our replies/posts?

          • Hello Helen Kane. Thank you for pointing out the phrase, “Come hell or high water”. With this thought, in the poem it mentions “heavy loads and water high” before “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, Look quickly down your quest to cease…” Would this still mean the searcher(s) found the treasure chest?

          • Not sure pdenver. I’m not totally convinced these instructions are in sequential order. I also feel some things may have a double meaning. The no paddle up your Creek part makes me think you either are along a dry creek, don’t need to get in any creek, and this could then tie into the water high as being a survey marker for the high water mark. Just some random things I’ve been pondering really.

          • Hi Dejoka:

            “The solving of the puzzle is not going to hinge on anything that’s not readily available to all.”

            True, and frankly I don’t think any of the hints are critical to success. Rather, *collectively* they provide an increasing level of confidence that the would-be searcher is on the right track.

            IMO no one hint is critical, and no one searcher is going to recognize every one of them that Forrest has provided. I think he is trying to level the playing field a bit by providing hints that span a wide spectrum of interests: literature, poetry, art, film, history, sports, music, and more. You don’t need to solve all the hints — they are redundant.

            “It’s not like he’s describing the wrong storyline to a classic novel, when the correct storyline was already known by some and easily researchable by all.”

            Ahh! You are actually making my point for me here. I would venture to guess that not 1 searcher in 10 has read both “For Whom the Bell Tolls” and “A Farewell to Arms,” so most wouldn’t even think to question the erroneous storyline in TTOTC. It sounds like it stood out to you as anomalous, so perhaps your knowledge of, and interest in, literature exceeds your art expertise.

            I am not particularly proficient with classic prose or art, but as a puzzle-solver, once I’m exposed to a few of Forrest’s deliberate “hiccups,” I don’t take a single thing he writes for granted.

    • Really Janet Landgard? Y’all act like it’s the Holy grail to the solve and talk crap about Dals blog and Dal. IMO the searchers on this site SMASH FB Galore’s ideas and given the fact that FF includes his personal touch with his scrapbooks on here tells a story! These searchers on here are the best…hands down the smartest by far! ALSO you brag about how your site being the fastest growing site and then invite all of these to add to your numbers? Can someone say EGOtistical ? Someone on this blog will solve it long before Terry Kasberg and his amazing find of a painting and your ego. It’s all about numbers on FFFB Galore and it’s sad. IMO

      • Deano………LOL…….so sorry you don’t like it. Can’t win everyone….I wish you well.

    • Inthechaseto;

      I may be dumb, but what the heck do you see in a painting of a Dead Dog on a Bridge? How is it important to the chase? Pardon the pun, but you seem to be chasing “A dead Dog”. JMO – JDA

      • JDA……we very well may be chasing a dead issue. Who knows….do you know? Do you know if the dog is really on the bridge? Nope……bet ya don’t . Discoveries always begin with not knowing.

      • JDA: it’s possible that there is a hint to be uncovered in that black and white painting — that would be my motivation for getting to the bottom of why it’s so difficult to locate an image of it. It suggests Forrest is hiding something, and he’s challenging us to go find it. It’s an aberration.

        I have found a hint in almost every such aberration. Like renaming the Henri painting Graciella. Or changing the lyrics of one stanza of “I’m Waiting for Ships that Never Come in” and putting it at the beginning of TTOTC. Or changing the H.L. Mencken joking epitaph and sticking it on a French soldier’s grave. Or all the times he reverses sayings, lyrics or bumper stickers, or misattributes famous quotes. I have explanations for at least a dozen of these anomalies, so I’m naturally curious to discover what I’m missing in those few for which I haven’t figured out a hint.

      • JDA- I am dumb.
        painting related to the chase? well the last half of TTOTC is dedicated to Forrest and his family life….and an art gallery.
        that’s how important paintings are. and museums.

        I think.

        • dodo;

          True, a portion of TToTC relates to the time that Forrest owned an Art Gallery. At one time I owned an Art Gallery. Does that mean that I have a better chance of solving the riddles of the Chase? I doubt it. Just because a story or two relate to Forrest’s time as a Gallery owner, I personally find no hidden hints in these stories – well, maybe one.

          Museums – nope – JMO, I know you will not agree – JDA

          • JDA- I have a dog that’s missing a front leg. we lovingly named him “Struggles”. he loves to roll over…whether you want him to or not…he just rolls over… a lot.

          • how come when I start talking everyone quietly leaves the room? is it my deodorant? or lack thereof maybe. but you must understand. when I think of Old Spice and sailors it brings back horrible memories. I cant help it.

      • * * * * JD – ” . . . a painting of a Dead Dog on a Bridge . . . How is it important to the chase?” * * * *

        To me, not important at all to the chase.

        Art and cartography are two of my biggest interests, so anything related to either attracts my attention with no regard to whether it gets me any closer to the chest. My interest in identifying the painting would be the same whether the blog was about bedsprings or bathtubs.

        Jake

        • Jake,

          I like your line of thinking about the painting more than likely of no help. This I believe is true with most of the art in the book. I just haven’t found any correlation to the poem as of yet.

          I also do like artwork of any kind, although I like art of the Native American the best, I guess this has a lot to do with being raised in Montana and playing cowboys and Indians in my early years.

          Just Say’n

        • Well, I might want to know what kind of bridge it was… did it have the Brown Structural Braces invented by bridge engineer Brown?

          • Ps… I wonder if the painting is really all black and white… or were we just supposed to read about it?

      • I agree JDA,
        Don’t think the painting of the dog is important at all. Personally, I think the French watercolor/ fairies dancing around rock is a reminder of the French Soldier’s grave.

    • Question:
      Is your group chasing Red Herrings?
      Or
      Following Wabbits down holes?

      Clearly Clueless

  68. I usually do the most internet surfing related to the chase during the week. My computer at work is far more suited for it than either my phone or tablets at home…

    That being said, does anyone else log in after a day or two away and find yourself scanning the thread posts wondering, “Is today the day we find out that someone found it??!!”

    I certainly do. And I find myself dreading that day when it comes…

    • At times yes, and others no. I think my family would appreciate the treasure being found so that I quit talking about it so much.

      Do you dread it because you feel like you are really close to the correct solve?

      • I dread it because i’m afraid it’s going to feel like an old friend has just moved away and you’ll probably never cross paths with them again.

        And currently, I do NOT feel like I’m close to a current solve. I always seem to be left with a few points that could lead two different directions and I unfortunately haven’t been able to pin the questions to a definite answer.

        Hence the everyday quest to find that one thought, comment or clue that will slap me in the face and take away the indecisiveness.

  69. At least in this case the friend might outlive us all. Even if someone finds the treasure it doesn’t have to end the thrill of the chase. There are always new adventures.

          • I had to make the joke because even my wife would never say to me about anything. At least you share your dread with Forrest (though I don’t know if he would use the word dread): “I think I will be a little let down if someone finds the treasure in the next several years but I will quickly recover. It is out of my hands now.” (June 2014 Scrapbook 78)

            The part I dread is this: “The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might still exist in 100 years but the geography probably will change before we reach the next millennia.”

            When I was younger my summers in Missoula were filled with sun, not forest fire smoke. For the last few years it has become a regular occurrence to be completely engulfed in smoke (usually all of August and September) to the point of needing to have extra filtration on hand just for the smoke. We currently broke a record for longest days of drought for our area and are on par to do it again (despite having excellent snow pack this last winter that caused a lot of flooding in Montana). I definitely worry that wherever the treasure is that this increase in fire activity in the US might bring upon the wrong kind of end to the chase plus more heartache for chasers like JDiggins.

          • The same goes here in Northern AZ where I am. Even 10 years ago when I moved here there weren’t nearly as many fires as there are these days.

            AND

            I believe we too, also broke records here for least amount of rainfall in history.

          • I can’t reply to the other one any more (bottom of the posting), but when it comes to AZ versus Montana I can’t truly complain about the heat. We just hit double digits for the first time this year recently. I have a friend in Phoenix and I don’t know how they get by (I wear shorts and a t-shirt once it gets over 50 degrees F).

          • Amusingly, I noticed that the low temperature in the United States for three consecutive days last week (I think Wed/Thu/Fri) was in of all places: West Yellowstone! (The countrywide highs were of course in Death Valley, CA). The lows on those three days were from 27 to 31 I believe.

  70. My copy of “Armchair Treasure Hunts” arrives tomorrow! Very much looking forward to seeing the latest “Forest Fenn Original” comments…

    Has anyone read it yet?

  71. in my opinion, the biggest problem we have here is that you can basically make any clue fit your potential solve you try hard enough. Kind of like a 6 degrees of Fenn, if you will.the clues should click in place like a key with no effort. If you have to force it, it’s most likely incorrect.You have to locate your WWWH , then be BOTG and move from there. No way can you look at google Earth and have any concept of how vast these search areas actually are. ( trust me, GE can only give you a cartoonish idea of the landscape)
    That being said, good luck to all and happy hunting!

    • PS- if your solve is not “worth the cold” you have probably missed something.

      • Veronica,

        Have you every thought that this just means that you will have to endure the torment brought about by fellow treasure seekers that were not as insightful as you when you have found the treasure and have ended their fun / hope!

    • I didn’t believe this until this past weekend… I’ll wear my tennis shoes just the same but you have to see your solve area in person and not from your couch… I believe the final clues to location don’t become apparent until you can see with your own eyes! Further, you have to have a perfect solve until you get to that point.

  72. From the top of the page called Searcher’s Introductions:

    “This page is for searchers to introduce themselves. Please write a few paragraphs about yourself that you would like to share with others on the blog. This page is only for searchers to write about themselves.

    Comments on these searcher bios are not permitted and will be deleted.”

    Not that I’m the Hall Way Monitor or anything, that’s JDA’s job! lol! Couldn’t resist! I know it’s tempting to comment over there…..but!

    • Darn – I have a job! W O W I didn’t know that. When will I get a paycheck? 🙂 – JDA

    • Most of life I’ve gotten people in trouble! Too funny. Figures I’m immediately a bad influence with my rule bending vibe that apparently carries through the ether of the internet realm!

  73. Seeker,
    You said the book “can only suggest locations that have been talked about”. Oh, but you are incorrect. The subtle details give hints to the TC location IMO. I do not think FF has stated the name of the place the TC is hidden. IMO

  74. dodo bird,
    You are not the first person to announce certain having found the “chest”, then stating it cannot be retrieved. I’ve heard it before.

  75. Dodo bird —
    “how come when I start talking everyone quietly leaves the room? is it my deodorant? or lack thereof maybe. but you must understand. when I think of Old Spice and sailors it brings back horrible memories. I cant help it.”

    We understand “Dodo Birds” are ALL “Ex-Stinked” — (couldn’t help it!)

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