Scrapbook One Hundred Eighty Nine…

scrapbook

AUGUST 2018

 

Does Forrest Fenn’s Treasure Really Exist?

I met Forest Fenn one day in the early 1970’s while visiting family in Lubbock, Texas.  I was around 10 years old and with my dad who had an interest in everything and anything art.  It’s all a blur now.  I had no real idea of where we were or what we were doing at the warehouse in what seemed to be an industrial side of town.

My dad had learned of a foundry and a caster of bronze who was moving to Santa Fe to set up a foundry. We found him and he made time for us. Dad asked Mr. Fenn many questions that day about the lost wax method of casting bronze sculptures.  I was fascinated by the discussion and was even more interested when Mr. Fenn handed me a small piece of dark brown casting wax and told me that if I sculpted something out of it he would cast it for me.

I naively took this man at his word. I lost no time and quickly sculpted a rather crude horse figure, placed it in a box and sent it back to Lubbock. Several months past and the horse crossed my mind a number of times. But back in those “no internet’, “no over-night shipping” days we had a healthy patience about expectations and waiting.

Sometime later a small box bearing weight arrived by mail and I recognized the name on the return address  – Forrest Fenn – Santa Fe, New Mexico. I hurriedly open the box and unwrapped the packaging and there it was, my little wax horse exactly as I had sculpted it, only now it was in solid bronze. I was amazed. A sculpture that I had created with my hands now was in a form that was as permanent as it could possibly be. I felt like a real artist!

Looking back on all of this, there was no gain in it for Mr. Fenn.  He had to fabricate a mold, and then melt the wax out of the mold followed by sweat and the extremely high temperature of a foundry. He took on the risk of pouring the molten bronze into the mold, followed by the finishing work and a patina applied perfectly – even to an insignificant piece of “art”. He did all of this while keeping up with the address of a boy he would probably never see again. And, Mr. Fenn never asked for anything in return.

The horse is almost comical looking and it sits today in my living room. And although very few people notice it, when I do, I think of a young boy and a man who did not know each other but made a promise with each other. And that promise was kept.

Many people are searching for the famous treasure. I feel a responsibility to tell all, that, I already found the real Forrest Fenn treasure -over 45 years ago!

By the way, Mr. Fenn, Thank you. 

Bill
Natchitoches, La.

 

 

 

 

 

154 thoughts on “Scrapbook One Hundred Eighty Nine…

  1. So many of my family and friends have questioned me about Forrest, the legitimacy of the chest, and the whole chase . They want to know how I can blindly go into this thinking that it may be a hoax. I have never met Forrest , but to me he seems like a man of his word. I have never questioned it because of hearing stories like this.
    When Forrest was made, they truly broke the mold!
    Awesome keepsake you have there!

      • dodo;

        How many times can you say the same thing? YES, we ALL know that YOU feel that the treasure is the great out-of-doors, and that the chest is the box – WE GET IT!!!

        Just because YOU believe something does NOT make it right.

        People have posted quote after quote supporting the fact that WE are looking for Forrest’s TREASURE CHEST which is a bronze chest filled with gold and precious gems and other things of value.

        Your view is different, and that is fine, but WE do not need to be beaten over the head with your OPINION – and that is JMO – JDA

        • Thank you, JDA. I WASspeaking of the chest as a physical object and I understand dodo’s outlook and time spent out there searching with my son is a treasure in itself. That being said…I really don’t think that Mr. Fenn would post pictures and give background info on objects if they were supposed to be taken hypothetically . Thanks for having my back on that one!

          • You are welcome Veronica – Have fun with your son – and good luck in finding the Treasure Chest – JDA

          • Pepole are so negative these days and greed is so rampent that no one believes some one would give away such a treasure,Butt money is not everything to every one my hats off to forest for not being a greedy person like all of his critics.and quit worrying about treasure and take there greedy assrs out and spend time with there family’s.

        • JDA- im simply pulling back the curtain on the wizard, like Toto did, for Veronica. you may choose to ignore the wisdom of the wizard if you wish. you all had the treasure all along, and dont know it. your boots on the yellow brick road will take you there.
          that’s the power of the ruby slippers.

          you are beating yourself JDA, don’t read my comments.

        • JD –

          As I have mentioned, this is all he does. He came here and sort of hid his identity for a while. Now this is all we will hear.

          Clearly he misleads chasers, disregards the guidelines and contradicts Forrest Fenn.

          Don’t comment on his comments is my advice.

          • Lug- kinda makes you wonder why Dal or Goofy hasnt nuked me yet. doesn’t it.

            no reply necessary.

  2. that bronze looks like the horse I bet on the other day…still running…..Great story…appreciate you sharing it! It shows more about the man than all the celebrity endorsements ever could.

    • Great story! The treasure exists. I have never doubted that, since I saw the broadcast on February 28, 2013 with Brian Williams on NBC News. And I have been inspired to hike and explore in Nature ever since. Thank you for this incredible journey, Forrest Fenn!

  3. The ‘lost wax’ process of creating a bronze is remarkable.

    Indian Market in SF this weekend. BOTG for a couple days afterwards with no clue as to WWWH. Back last week Sept / first week Oct for aspen color.

    • Hey aardvark, I’ll be in Santa Fe this weekend also, headed for my 6th botg. If you want to meet up, shoot me an email…I approve Jenny sharing my email with you in advance. LMK, thanks.

    • I will have to miss the Indian Market in Santa Fe this weekend .. stuck in Tucson for a little awhile more ..

      Brad

  4. Forrest;
    Thanks for the heart-warming story. It seems as though you have always been willing to share your talents, and to help create beautiful “Works of Art”. How many searchers have you taken under your wing – in one way or another – helping them to take something rough – a wax model – and turn it into a “Work of art”? Probably more than you know. You have helped fulfill “Many a dream”. Maybe only one will ultimately find Indulgence, but who ever that person is, he/she will not have done it alone – It will have been with your mentoring – by all of your clues and hints in the poem, and in your books, and in your ATF’s – THANKS from one Ever-Grateful Friend and FENN-atic – JDA

  5. Thank you Bill for writing this and Dal for putting it on there today. I feel down today and it reminded me of the treasures I already have sitting at home. Forrest was kind enough to have me make a wax model that he took to the foundry for me for Christmas one year. I love the process. I’m no artist, but I made a Texas that sits on my table by my chair with a cross in the middle. I love it and wouldn’t part with it. Forrest is an extremely nice man! Thank you Forrest!

  6. Let me add my thanks to Dal & to you Bill for sharing your fun childhood story. I first heard Mr. Fenn back in 2013 & finding stories like your’s is a treasure in of itself. I have not had the joy of meeting Mr. Fenn & by no means can you say you know someone just by reading about them. but your story does affirm his kindness towards young people.
    One day someone may write a biography of Mr Fenn but it will be a history of him & will be a poor substitute for knowing him personally.
    Thank you again for sharing your memories.
    Wildbirder

  7. Wow! The thunder was rumbling just now but I wanted a zucchini for the grill, so I ran out and found one in the garden in front of the house. I was heading back through the pouring rain when a tremendous lightning bolt hit our big red oak and I got “lifted,” as Dad always said when somebody got shocked. That’s the first time that ever happened to me-

  8. Bill, you have allowed us to share in the blessing of nearness to Forrest!

    Thank you, for this insight into Mr. Fenn. 🙂

  9. Thank you for sharing your story Bill. We have an opportunity to positively touch the lives of so many others in ways that can last a lifetime or more. We would do well to be more like Forrest.

  10. Let me add here. YES the Treasure is real. I am sorry I loved the story so much I didnt read the title. We have people around us who think we are wasting our time chasing a hoax. We believe the TC & Mr. Fenn’s Story is real. In all the years of my researching and reading about Mr. Fenn I have never came across a story by someone who claimed to know him well that was negative. No one is perfect and this story shows that he is very human. If you doubt there is a treasure chest dont bother with it but if you have imagination, love nature, and are good at puzzles join in the Quest.

  11. I remember working on that horse. it’s a really nice piece of art. Not too long after it was cast I closed my foundry and converted the space into an art gallery. That’s when good things started happening for me, but i loved working with molten metal. f

    • You’ve probably done things llike that a hundred times before f, not ever worried if the universe will pay you back. It’s just the right thing to do… My grandpa used to talk about fixing cars for people who didn’t have the money, or who didn’t understand the complexity of the problem.

    • Hi Forrest, Is it me or do the last several blogs or statements have to do with 1) Double Dies….” 1955 DD” Dizzy Dean or ….the 1955 double dye penny 2 )Spreading your ashes where the chest is hidden ….(and Olga’s) ? Cynthia, you know what I’m getting at . Well I’m stuck in Idaho, near Boise. Any searchers in the area (or not) , help me get to Taos and I will give you $100,000. if I / WE find the chest……..ask a few seasoned searchers, this might be a sure bet……….Forrest, I am still counting on lunch my friend. see you soon

    • Beautiful back story behind that bronze piece, and the art that follows. Few stories stir me more than those of a person sharing time or keeping a promise. This one may be my favorite.

      Thank you, Mr. Fenn.

  12. That really is a wonderful story. And it does reinforce the thought that Forrest is a man of his word. Thanks for sharing this—really brightens the day.

  13. That’s a nice story. And it taught a young boy the importance of keeping ones word and excercising patience in a busy world. I think your artwork is nice Bill. It’s far better than I could do. I don’t understand how one makes a bronze from a wax mold. And now I have more research to do!

    • Hi Copper — I, too, have pondered the process of going from wax to bronze. Everyone seems to leave out a rather important step, which I think must be made of clay or some other temperature-resistant material. Can’t very well pour molten bronze into a wax mold!

      So my best guess is that once you have the wax model, you surround it with clay (or some such material that will hold its shape when heated) and bake it in a kiln. The wax melts away and you’re left with a “negative” of the wax model — which is exactly what you want. Because now you can fill the void in the clay cast with molten bronze.

      I’m probably missing some important details in what I’ve described that perhaps Forrest would be kind enough to fill in, but it seems like this progression would work.

      • I won’t claim to know what FF did, but investment casting is usually used because you get a much better finish on the part…sand casting is similar, but the mold is usually split in half after hardening and the prototype part is removed, mold halves put back together then hot metal poured in, the sand leaves a rough texture…eg exhaust manifolds, the mating surfaces are then machined, holes, etc. For art pieces I expect that a ceramic is used, where upon firing, to harden the mold, the wax is removed, but this leaves a very exact mold, it will be identical to the original, but tends to be expensive/time consuming. All IMO.

          • More cool stuff to learn about, thanks for sharing JDA!

            So many great videos on youtube that show how its done. Something we should all try.

            Looks like:
            Sculpting wax is about $7/lb
            Carving wax is about $17/lb
            Ring tubes for jewelry are about $10/tube
            http://shop.sculpt.com/wax/sculpting/

            If I google bronze foundries in my home town I see several. I’ve asked one for price to cast something around the size of an apple.

            A local jewelry caster looks to charge about $35 to set up a 4″x6″ cylindrical investment mold and I’m assuming I supply the silver or gold.

            It would be cool to create a treasure like the one Bill has.

          • You can teach an old dog new tricks and Google plays a big role. It makes us smarter every day if you can retain.

          • I have not watched this video yet, but I do find the whole bronze-casting thing very interesting. I don’t know if it’s too involved to be a hobby-only thing or if the costs/time would necessitate it being more a profession. I suppose if I find the TC I will have the time to explore it either way.

            Thanks for the story. I enjoyed it.

  14. Awesome story, just yesterday I had to argue the same question with someone I met while broken down in the Beemer here in Caldwell , Idaho..Major side of the road surgery tomorrow after the new radiator arrives from Colorado. Did he hide it ??? You damn well better have Forrest ! Still pushing on . Once it hits 107 degrees in the shade, 110 ain’t nothing !!!

    • Couldn’t agree more JDiggins, and from everything I’ve heard about you, you and Forrest are two peas in a golden pod!

        • @Jdiggins – I sent this poem in my paypal note to you, but I’ll share it here too:

          “Don’t Quit” – by John Greenleaf Whittier

          When things go wrong, as they sometimes will,
          When the road you’re trudging seems all uphill,
          When funds are low and the debts are high,
          And you want to smile but you have to sigh,
          When care is pressing you down a bit,
          Rest if you must, but don’t you quit.

          Life is queer with its twists and turns,
          As every one of us sometimes learns,
          And many a failure turns about,
          When he might have won if he’d stuck it out.
          Don’t give up, though the pace seems slow –
          You may succeed with another blow.

          Often the goal is nearer than
          It seems to a faint and faltering man;
          Often the struggler has given up
          When he might have captured the victor’s cup,
          And he learned too late, when the night slipped down,
          How close he was to the golden crown.

          Success is failure turned inside out –
          The silver tint of the clouds of doubt,
          And you never can tell how close you are –
          It may be near when it seems afar;
          So stick to the fight when you’re hardest hit –
          It’s when things seem worst that you mustn’t quit.

    • Cj1066: Probably an innocent typo. There is also “Several months past” instead of passed. Did Bill send his story directly to Dal, or did Forrest forward it on his behalf?

      • Zap, let’s talk about that:

        Several months passed — what does this mean?

        Several months past – OR past several months?

        Thinking “gut feeling”, Q & A’s since SB 188 (Dizzy Dean) and only 38 days remaining in summer…It’s just my hunch based on a feeling that may be shared by more than a few.

        Any word from Inohury on this? JDA?

        • Would these be considered “faults” in the scrapbook? Simple mistakes/typing errors? What is everyone’s thoughts to Mr. Fenn’s response to at 12:23 p.m.?

          • Can’t forget the discussion made a few days ago about “your” and “you’re”.

        • cj1066;

          Regarding “Gut Feeling” and only 38 days remaining in summer… I do not know what to say. As most know, I am dependent on my search team. Summer is a very busy time. Am I counting the days? Sure am. Would I like to make one last search before the end of summer? Certainly.

          Gut Feeling?

          Will I be able to? I am not sure. Do I feel that IF I am able to make one last search – that I will find Indulgence? The answer is a resounding YES!! Is that ego talking? I hope not. Odds are against me – 20 past failures, but I am very hopeful that I have learned something each and every failed search.

          Hopeful, but unsure I can make a search before the end of summer – Thanks for asking – JDA

          • JDA,

            If you learn something new each time you go out, you improve your chances, and swing the odds to your favor…keep the cup half full!

            At this time, based on my interpretation of all the signs over the past several months – see what I did there? 🙂 – , it’s best to be 100% certain before committing to another BOTG if the only focus is on the chest. Vacations are good anytime.

            There are now fewer than 38 days remaining in summer. As I continue to refine my notes and images of the solution I’ve been crafting, I also prepare myself for an announcement that the chest has been retrieved.

            IMHO,

            Regards,

            CJ

          • Well, you certainly have a leg up on some! You know 20 places where the treasure isn’t. Have fun and good luck out there, JDA!

          • Clearly;

            I was raised in NM, so there is a calling BUT, NOTHING would tempt me to leave Wyoming – JDA

          • cj1066;

            My eye is on the objective – and that is Indulgence I am 100% ready for the next BotG – JDA

          • Thanks Veronica – You are correct, I know of at least 20 places that it isn’t :- ) JDA

          • CC: I was going to jokingly suggest on JDA’s behalf: “A lobotomy?” In the World Series of Fenn, JDA is all-in on Wyoming.

        • cj1066: by Forrest’s definition, there are only 16 days left of summer. In Forrest’s book, September ain’t summer.

          • Zap,

            I read your comment and, somehow, there was something strangely comforting in the thought of fewer days…

  15. Anyone else willing to admit these word bring tears:

    “…And although very few people notice it, when I do, I think of a young boy and a man who did not know each other but made a promise with each other. And that promise was kept.”

  16. I had to go back and reread this scrapbook. It truly is a heartfelt story. Thank you, Bill and Mr. Fenn, for sharing this story with us. I really like it a lot.

  17. Bill, I honestly wouldn’t expect anything less from Forrest. If you give someone your word then you keep it. Forrest and his generation are pretty much the last of a dying breed. I gotta tell ya, this horse is something to be proud of. Well done Mr. Fenn! The man is only as good as his word…Honorable!

    • Forrest, thanks again for the chase. It feels like you’re just slapping us in the face and trying to pound this hint into our heads…I see it as plain as day. Two words come to mind…Thanks again Mr. Fenn!

    • Forrest and his generation are not the last of a dying breed .. I grew up 36 years after Forrest post baby-boom and I always keep my word and I always help people out without expecting anything in return .. Every generation creates the selfish and the selfless and there are young kids today who will grow up helping people less fortunate and passing on the knowledge as teachers ..

      Brad

  18. That is an amazing piece of art. I remember those days of 4-6 weeks for a basic mail order shipment. Patience is a lost art too.

  19. What a special gift. I just noticed on the Fennboree videos from 2018, when Forrest Fenn would be signing books and interacting with the searchers, if a child was present he would take extra time to make them feel special and speak with them. I just noticed that about him. Which brings a quote to mind, “It’s nice to be important, but it’s more important to be nice.” I am not sure whose quote it is!! But I like it and it definitely pertains to Mr. Fenn and how nice he is to children. And he was most gracious to this little 10-year-old and he sure remembered it. Kind deeds are not forgotten. Great post!

    • Hi Sandy –

      I don’t know of course, but I am hoping you begin to understand the nature of the clues and the hints as I see them.

      If you are just playing with me, that’s ok too.
      If you are still reading, kindly consider the following.
      How many things does Forrest cast?
      and then
      Hon many things did he found?

      Lugnutz

      • Lug – I’ve been trying to understand the nature of the clues and hints as you see them for a long time. I think I started to catch on awhile ago.

        Are you asking me to consider “how many things” or “what” things does FF cast and found? Good questions to ponder.

        On one of the threads recently you submitted a one-word post “HORSE” – and now this new SB arrives. I believe your stance is that you don’t think Forrest talks to any of us or sends us ” hidden messages” with his scrapbooks, etc. and any “connections” are all chance and coincidence. I’m not playing with you, but I wondered if Forrest is giving you a little tap on the shoulder?

        • Sandy –

          I believe that we should solve a clue. If it helps, think if a crossword puzzle. That’s a common place one might solve.

          I believe the answers are simple words as with a crossword.

          So when someone wants to talk about buttercup, lollypop and lightning being clues, I think, how about just Horse?

          And then, which clue dies this help with? An then, does this point to a place on the map?

          Lugnutz

          • Thanks for further explaining your approach, Lugnutz. It makes a lot of sense – both simple and elegant. Do you think that this scrapbook, in any way, is a nod to your method? A story within a story?

          • Sandy –

            Between you and me, Forrest is messing with me in more than one way with this one post and his comment.

            He’s having a chuckle at my expense here.

            And I think he does all the time.

            Hey Forrest – how hot was it in your foundry making that horse?

      • You guys make it sound like fenn sent this SB directly.
        Maybe I’m wrong, but this looks like Bill may have simply sent this write-up to Dal to post, allowing all of us to enjoy his story of meeting fenn.
        How could any message, hint, messing with another search come into play, from fenn, if that is the case [ sent by Bill ]?

        • Hi Seeker-

          I am using a computer keyboard instead of my phone in an attempt to post this comment error free.

          I am expressing an opinion. Here it is.

          Often folks here think that Forrest is talking to them or giving a hint, or as Sandy says, a nudge. We think this because we are discussing something here, or emailing F, and he seems to then post a related Scrapbook.

          I am saying, YES, he is doing this. But, not to hint or nudge, but to have fun.

          Sandy noted that I recently commented that I thought a hint was the word HORSE. And, here comes a scrapbook about a horse.

          In between those two points in time, during the while, I also had an email conversation with Forrest about how hot it is. (I wouldn’t share that email without Fenn ok’ing it.)

          Maybe this is coincidence, or maybe it’s purposeful. If it is, it’s not abetment, but badinage.

          And thank you for all your thoughtful commentary this week@
          Lugnutz

          • Don’t get me wrong Lugz, I also think fenn [ for lack of a better term ] developed some SB, answers many of our Q&A’s, some with a jest of humor and/or suggestive thought… or both.

            I only had a hard time thinking this SB was lead into it for that purpose or use. It might be me though… I just don’t see all of what others claim to see in everything single thing fenn states or writes or comments about…
            I just see fenn enjoying a SB posting of a person he had a moment, an impression left, an influence upon another, that has lasted many years later, and rekindled on a blog chatting about the influences of the challenge he presented to all who join the Umm, errr, Institution.

            Some times it’s ok, just to be outside the box, once upon a while.

          • Lugnutz: do you have a link to your post that predates this Scrapbook where you mention HORSE? I want to see the context. Was wondering if it was a reply to me, perhaps regarding the duplicated names (Buttercup and Lollipop) of the two donkeys in TFTW and the two horses in one of the very early Scrapbooks.

          • Please stay on your computer keyboard Lug when you can, I can get what you’re saying much better. Funny coincidence & yes I think F likes to play around with us.

  20. got to get these words off my mind. He cast his shadow on the pines, the seeds he planted
    turned into vines, they grew and grew and only he knew that one day they would comfort his life in the seasons of time, Winter Spring and Fall, he would always be remembered by all. Cheers to the lesson on being true to your word it really does mean something in life.

  21. Thanks Bill, Dal and Mr. Fenn,
    I will have to admit this left me warm hearted and a little red eyed but with a curious smile of satisfaction.

  22. This was a great story to read first thing morning. It has already improved my day, thank you for taking time post.

  23. Almost speechless
    As I reread this story I can not help but to reflect it on my own life. How many empty promises I have made and how simple it would have been to fulfill them. Stories like this make me realize that I can be a better person. Not only to my wife and kids but to everyone who I interact with.
    Thank you Forrest for opening my eyes and my heart. In 3,4, or 6 weeks or so I will return to “my spot only”and try my hardest to fulfill a promise that was made to myself , by myself.
    Thank you to everybody on this form. I am not a super poster but I do love to read all of the thoughts and ideas. It is funny how a group of good people seem to attract good people.

  24. Thanks Bill, great feeling is in your words, even admiration, I would suggest you name the bronze horse “Eohippus” – the first horse also known as the dawn horse – 50-60 million years ago; 10-20 inches high, three toes in back four toes in front, tell Forrest it was a fossil model you were recreating. He seems partial to fossils, come to think of it he almost is one…

    Does Forrest tease us? Consider a few comments he made like the 6600 Rods, or 8.25 miles north of the City, well sure he does, that highway due north out of Santa Fe is NM Hwy 285? The point he sometimes makes will surprise when the joker show up, he certainly must drop hints and teases us along the way.

    In early March of 2017 I created and posted a solve called “Winter Thought” which Dal graciously posted, suddenly out of the blue a bunch of scrapbooks were posted by ff and had stuff like a Train Bell and numerous other scrapbook treasures that all seemed to relate. In fact I don’t ever remember so many scrapbooks in late March and April 2018, then Bam! Once Upon a While was published. Are there hints or clues, only the old fossils know for sure.

    My curiosity of his JOKER method was reinforced by comments like “If you don’t have that one nailed down you might as well stay home and play Canasta”. Does anyone get that?

    TT

  25. Now I don’t want everyone falling all over themselves, but I’ve got a fresh approach to HoB. It’s not HoB, it’s “below the home of Brown” or BTHOB which is an elevation, not a place. The “home of Brown” is the Mammoth Hotel in Mammoth Hot Springs. During the 1890’s, Grafton Brown had a gallary at the Mammoth Hotel where he sold his famous paintings of Yellowstone. Being an art dealer, FF would have been well aware of this. The elevation of the Mammoth Hotel is slightly above 6240 feet, therefore BTHOB is 6240 feet of elevation and can be at any location. Enjoy.

    • Adrian,
      Back in 2015 I thought about Grafton Tyler Brown and alot of research on him, where his paintings were showcased and the places he stayed while painting YNP.

      I thought the Madison Junction Information Station was his display place for some of his paintings seeing it was a museum before Information Station.

      Grafton Tyler Brown had to stay someplace within YNP to paint but never found those places.

      I had emailed Fenn back in 2015:

      Hello,
      Would you happen to have any paintings by Grafton Tyler Brown?
      Thanks,
      Jake

      No sir. f

      —–Original Message—–
      From: jake.faulker@mail180-5.suw31.mandrillapp.com [mailto:jake.faulker@mail180-5.suw31.mandrillapp.com] On Behalf Of jake.faulker@laptoptrek.com
      Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 6:50 PM
      To: forrestfenn@gmail.com
      Subject: Old Santa Fe Trading Co. Contact Form Message

      I had sent another email asking if he ever had any paintings from Tyler but was unanswered do to the cat out of the bag.

      There is a painting out there named “Trout” by Tyler here:
      https://www.kiarts.org/page.php?page_id=666

      I have since moved away from people being “Brown” in the poem.

  26. I don’t want everyone falling all over themselves, but I’ve got a fresh approach to HoB. It’s not HoB, it’s “below the home of Brown” or BTHOB which is an elevation, not a place. The “home of Brown” is the Mammoth Hotel in Mammoth Hot Springs. During the 1890’s, Grafton Brown had a gallary at the Mammoth Hotel where he sold his famous paintings of Yellowstone. Being an art dealer, FF would have been well aware of this. The elevation of the Mammoth Hotel is slightly above 6240 feet, therefore BTHOB is 6240 feet of elevation and can be at any location. Enjoy.

    • Adrian: caution — “specialized knowledge.” Statistically speaking, nobody in the world has ever heard of Grafton Brown, so unless you can find a clue to that in the poem I think it’s a big stretch to depend on it.

      • I concur about it being specialized knowledge. It seems unlikely anyone today but an art aficionado/collector would know about Brown’s gallery at Mammoth, and there is nothing I can find in the poem or in TToTC that would point someone in that direction.

        I am not going to go so far as to say it is a wrong clue, because what do I know? But it is not an hoB that I am inclined to pursue with confidence.

      • That’s one way to look at it Zap, Ray.
        I kinda think all this “special knowledge” chat is not being considered properly.
        I mean, is this idea of mapping out clues and going to the chest all there is to it?
        Is locating points while botg all there is to know?

        I don’t think / highly doubt the hotel is a clue [ the structure association comment[s] ]
        But look at it this way;
        If we can locate the first two clues on a map, and assume, most of the clues as well… Is there a reason to ‘follow’ the clues ‘closely’ [ precisely ] other-than just a point to point movement. Are we required to gain knowledge along the way-?- about the clues to be “wise,” [knowledge] line of thinking.
        Are we only to be wise to “find” ~but never discover?

        Many talk about the things they learn and places they found / discovered, all the researching they do, say fenn is their teacher… maybe they are right… maybe we need to learn what he wants us to learn of ~ “the answers [knowledge] I already know” … Keep my secret where and ” ‘hint’ of riches [ knowledge ] new and old”
        We have been told the poem will lead us, right? Yet also told with just the words [in the poem] err, um … Nope.
        Only to have another comment saying “All the information to ‘find’ the chest is in the poem”
        *is all the “information” only contained in the poem?*

        I mean, There might be a more simpler reason for ‘planning’ and Observing’ and ‘the need for botg after the first few clues’ [in practice]… or why we can’t do this on a spring break or Sunday picnic.
        The Idea that fenn could follow all the clues, did it in a period during a days time [twice] because he knew the “answers” [knowledge] to his own created clues already… we are told to marry clues to a map… is that all we need to do-?- is just walk to those clues? Or do we need to find – ‘discover’ [knowledge] answers at some or all the clues?

        LOL we have folks who deciphered clues, solved clues, indicated clues, been on site… yet none ‘knew’ they did??? even when going by the remaining clues? an close to their destination…

        Might this idea be that “important possibility to winning the prize”… to learn of, along the way… a reason for those clues?
        Look at this SB of a young boy learning about art, casting, a teacher’s influence etc;
        ~”Many people are searching for the famous treasure. I feel a responsibility to tell all, that, I already found the real Forrest Fenn treasure -over 45 years ago!”
        The horse is a trophy, not unlike the trove… but the “influence” is what matters.

        I have to ask; Where is the influence that fenn want to past on to future generation, if all this is, is a prize/lure to be mapped out?
        Is the Thrill of the Chase only a cache hunt?

        15 years of work on a poem, over 20 years of planning and final execution of the plan, Mega Bucks [the lure ] that keeps on growing, and all we really learn about is a place on a map, a dot, a plot of land… while solving the clue’s references?

        The Q&A from Davis asked about special knowledge with examples, fenn answered in part; “…I have no expectation…” Maybe he just could not “predict” the actions / learning’s / gaining knowledge along the path needed by a searcher.
        “If it was easy anyone could do it”

        • ** * ** Seeker wondered (as do we all) – “I mean, is this idea of mapping out clues and going to the chest all there is to it? Is locating points [on a map and/or] while botg all there is to know?” ** * **

          Basically, I’d say yeah, that’s pretty much it.

          But then I don’t think it’s a Doug Preston novel with surprise plot twists, I’m a hint agnostic, and I don’t think a mention of “aberrations” was a hint to collect and analyze them (though I find them interesting in and of themselves, I don’t think they get you any closer to the clues, let alone the chest).

          “The treasure will be found by someone who followed the clues to the location. To me, that is the only plausible recipe.” ff

          I think 90+% of the difficulty is accounted for very simply by this:

          “It will be there for as long as time has to come, or until you find it. . . . Your destination is small, but its location is huge.”

          (as always, I write as one 100% unencumbered by treasure chests)

          Jake

        • “Is the Thrill of the Chase only a cache hunt?”

          Honestly, I mainly view the Treasure Chest as a reward, but not really the point of the Chase.

          My thinking is that the Chase has several purposes:

          1. Getting people out of their homes and encouraging them to rediscover the beauty of nature.
          2. Encouraging people to work together with their friends or family in common purpose.
          3. Getting people to engage their imaginations instead of just letting their brains be spoon fed information of little true value.
          4. Helping people better see the Forrest through the trees. (To truly understand the man.)

          I suspect that when someone figures out the correct PIBTHOB, it is not going to be some obscure fact that has to be heavily researched in a library or on the internet, but something that is so obvious that an overly analytical mind would think right past it. It’ll be the elephant in the room that you didn’t see because you were looking for a snake, four tree trunks, and a piece of rope. It will be the Eureka moment that makes you laugh that you didn’t see it immediately. And I think that will be true of the other clues in the poem as well.

          In other words, the fact that it is *so* easy is what makes it nearly impossible … and why a child hypothetically might have an easier time solving it. The stodgy Pencey Prep professor is unlikely to find the chest, but someone who is still on speaking terms with the child inside just might have a chance.

          In the end, playing the game and going BOTG is its own reward. The jackpot just serves to get you to sit at the table and ante up.

          Or, you can stay home and play Canasta instead. It’s an easier game, but not as rewarding.

          Just my opinion.

      • Zap, point taken, but the very presence of “home of Brown” in the poem is “specialized knowledge”. It requires knowing something other than what can be derived from a map or elsewhere in the poem.

        • Zap, the one exception to my statement above would be if the word “Brown” referenced in the poem actually appears on a map – – like Joe Brown Creek or Brown’s Ferry, etc.

        • Hi Adrian: the exceptions you named are the “easy” possibilities, but a bit too obvious. Nevertheless, I believe that solving “home of Brown” requires no specialized knowledge and the answer can indeed be found on the right map.

          • Zap, yep, I agree that the HoB “solve” is somewhere on a map. FF has always said that only two things were needed to find the treasure- – the poem and good maps. If your solve won’t take you to the treasure without his other, reinforcing hints, then your solve is either invalid or FF has been a little disingenuous. One could also say the same about WWWH – – which would lead one to believe that this refers to areas marked on a map as “warm” , “hot” , “tepid”, etc. Does the word “geyser” imply warm water, or is that a “specialized knowledge” conclusion. Where does common knowledge cross over into specialized knowledge? I think that you have to give “common knowledge” a lot of leeway before deciding that something is specialized knowledge. All of this has been hashed over ad infinitum, but it still helps to zero back in on basics. Just thinking out loud.

          • Zap,

            I strongly feel that everything we need to know is on the right map. Also the poem contains all of the directions, more like a verbal map. Its like stopping and asking directions and the person you ask is completely familiar with the area and gives out things to look for so you know your on the right route.

            All you really need is the poem & the right map and you can forget about Q&A’s, and ATFs to find the TC. Don’t get me wrong Q&A’s etc. may help as well as the subtle hints in the book, provided you can recognize them.

            Comprehensive knowledge of geography is basically to be able to read a map or even GM. However I do know a few people that have never used a map or relied on written directions from a computer. But done by more or less getting to a destination by word of mouth, which really the poem is doing.

            Just Say’n

          • CharlieM;

            I agree, but with the caveat that the person giving the verbal direction speaks a form of English that we may not be completely familiar with. Let’s say that the directions include – “Go down past the holler…” If you do not know that a Holler = A small dip between hills not large enough to be considered a valley. – you might go the wrong way.

            Although I do believe that the poem is “Straightforwards” – I do believe that many of the words are open to interpretation. JDA

  27. This scrapbook is not about the treasure not existing. It’s about having faith in Fenn that it’s there. That he comes through in the end. The treasure is there waiting for the finder.

  28. I to found Fenn’s real treasure over 50 years ago, as a small child I got my head split open by a stone thrown from my brother. My Mother didn’t drive and my father wasn’t home, we lived near Lubbock, he was close by somehow he was contacted and he took me to the hospital. On the way I was bleeding in his truck, my head was wrapped in towels and it bled through them. I was very young and scared I was in trouble for getting blood in his truck. he told me it was ok. I don’t think I ever saw him again. I remember it like it was yesterday. Forrest I never got to Thank you for saving my life . So Thank You so much

    • I love your story too, jonr! That’s awesome! Forrest is quite a person, one the world is blessed to have had for now, 88 years!
      Happy Birthday Forrest! Another life saved because of you! 🙂

  29. Chasers:

    Have Fun ..

    Apologies if any of my former, sometimes emotionally orchestrated comments were antagonistically worded. They were not intentionally directed at any one person or group, only designed and delivered for special affect ..

    You played along wonderfully 😉 ..

    Lavalier Off. Actor Out. Talent’s Last Day Of Production. Peace and Good Luck. And ..

    Scene.

    Lead Antagonist in an Action or Drama:

    Brad Hartliep

    All My Best

    MacBradh

  30. Okay, so does anybody have an idea what that centerpiece thing is behind the horse? My best guess, and it’s not a very good guess, is that it’s an ornate, old fashioned writing set-

    • I wouldn’t think there would be clues from Bill’s table settings for the thrill of the chase. The item appears to be a pine tree cookie cutter painted gold with a pink candle in the middle that has never been lit at the time of the photo.

  31. I wasn’t suggesting it was a clue. I just wanted to know what people thought. It could be a candle/ cookie cutter combo, though it’s way more ornate than the little tin shapes we used to use. Thanks for the input.

    • Just for fun;
      The horse looks about six inches long, using the leaf in the table [approx 12″ wide] for comparison. The Jar has a darker pink ribbon to match the darker shade pink on the table runner, and the gold color holder [I think might be an ornament of sorts filled with gold tinsel] appears to have a lighter pink floater style candle in the center [estimating about 4″ x 1″ overall]. I say pink, but would rather say light red, cuz I’m a guy, but others may get technical and call it mauve.
      Hope that helped…
      Now I need to something manly, cuz I wear the pants in my family. I’m told I have the correct ones on today… so that’s a good sign. I guess I can check my honeydew list and see if the lawn needs mowing.

      Sigh… It’s time like these I wish I had a garage w/ a beer frig, or a fly rod to put in my hot-rod and just fishing.

      • Numbers numbers numbers…all I see is a brown donkey…uh horse. I mowed the lawn twice today cuz I don’t want to do it next week…I’m going swimmin’ now.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *