The Poem Married to a Map…Part Two

SUBMITTED AUGUST 2018

BY CharlieM

 

From my previous solution (Part One), I did not explain well enough, where warm waters halt, how I arrived at the Headwaters of the Rio Grande River, to be the first clue in the poem. The Rio Grande River has been classified as warm water by the New Mexico Fish & Wildlife. In fishing brochures that I have seen they refer to The Warm Waters of the Rio Grande, also it has been referred the same in conversations I’ve had and tourist video clips and rafting clips that I’m sure are out there and around before the advent of computers. The Rio Grande River is made up of other rivers and waters combined, hence “waters”.

How does the Rio Grande River halt? When all of the snow melts off the water flow does halt or stops where the river is first formed, there is no more water. I think of it this way, when you turn on a faucet the water flows (melting snow) and when you turn off the faucet the water halts, (snow finished melting). This is the best analogy that I could present.

My second analogy of “where warm waters halt”, snow is frozen water, when it melts it is warmer water than its parent. Again when there is no more snow the water stops flowing. I believe there are many warm waters throughout the Rocky Mountains that this applies to. Even though I like both ideas, the first analogy is more defined as one place among the many places where warm waters halt.   

On August 16, 2018 I went on another search and scratched off the road as a blaze in my first solution. Yes I did say that I was done searching with my first solution, but couldn’t help it with what I recently discovered. I restudied the same area and found what I believe is the blaze. In the Google Map image I noticed a white streak in the landscape, which there are several waterfalls of Clear Creek that creates a white streak when viewed from above. When one looks up the word, blaze, it mentions the white marking on a horse’s forehead and a streak of white hair on a man’s head is called a blaze.

If I “look quickly down” using Google Maps and physically being there where the last waterfall is there is logjam just below the pool of water created by the waterfall. Logs and branches, it is wood and not of a live standing tree. In the creek there are many flat stones in which to rest the treasure among the wood, hence “in the wood”. Wood that is submerged in water can last many years without rotting as the wood is not exposed directly in the air. Generally wood that is in water over time becomes harder and less prone to decay. The logs will more than likely, will not move because they are wedged so tightly against and in large rocks. It is very apparent that the wood has been there for many years because the wood is smooth with no bark that has eroded away by the water and very intacked.

“If you are brave” enough to try to cross the creek by using the wet and dry rocks as stepping stones to reach the wood and search in the wood. Water is “worth the cold.” For me and my friend it was a challenge to reach the wood in maintaining balance and trying to stay mostly dry, but was not dangerous even if one slipped or lost their balance the water was shallow. The rock walls on both sides of the creek were steep preventing us to go up higher and it is where an 80 year old would not go, but could go just below the last waterfall and do it twice and a child would need assistance. Never the less, we did not find the chest after searching the wood and even a little further downstream, including small knee high woody shrubs along the base along the rock walls and under exposed roots of trees along the banks of the creek.

Notes: I strongly believe my solution with the poem is more than likely in the correct hiding area and too coincidental to pass up. That’s just me.

1. Where warm waters halt is the headwaters of the Rio Grande River, for both reasons stated above.

2. The canyon down is not far, but too far to walk, at approximately 10 miles.

3. The put in place below the home of Brown, is below Brown Mountain (a place) at Silverton, CO.

4. From Silverton is the Million Dollar Highway, (road 550), which is “no place for the meek”, a road that has several hairpin turns, built partially along steep cliffs with very little to no shoulders without guard rails, (no more than three along the route).

5. The road, ( road 558), that continually “draws nigh”, to the left all of the way to the end, that starts 2 miles out of Silverton towards the Million Dollar Highway, turning left.

6. Clear Creek is most definitely as, one cannot use a paddle going up and is “your” creek to search.

7. “Just up the creek is “water high”, (Clear Lake), and the only way to get to the lake is “just” the use of a four wheeled vehicle as heavy loads. I feel that, “just heavy loads and water high” is a confirmation that one is in the right area. I think that phrase is more of a hint and not a real clue even though it is after “your creek”, kind of an afterthought.

8. “If you are wise and found the blaze”, The water going over the many waterfalls would be a white streak looking from above with GM, and cannot be seen using a regular or topography map. I would be very inclined to think that water would be overlooked as a blaze. Looking “quickly down” just below the last waterfall is the logjam as “your quest to cease” is your search area.

9. “Your effort is worth the cold”, is the water of Clear Creek and as I explained above, “If you are brave and in the wood” does strongly apply to what the poem is saying.

Even though I did not find the treasures and the chest, does not mean that it is not there. During the course over a period of 8 to 10 years a lot of things do change in nature. Some of the logs may have been moved by water from a heavier thaw than usual and silt and rocks could make it much harder to find the treasure and still be in the correct location. Or it may have been retrieved by a searcher long ago and the finder simply went in peace without saying a word. In this case it is not likely, because none of the artifacts have surfaced.

None of my solution was forced and there are a lot of coincidences that are factual to the poem. Where warm waters halt may be argued, the rest does easily fit what the poem is saying as factual places. Something to strongly ponder and investigate further, I will not be doing that, but anyone else can do so and I will wish them better luck. I would find it very hard to look elsewhere as my solution will always be stuck firmly in my mind.

Do I expect any comments from Forrest? Of course not, as I did not find the treasure. I just wonder how well his “gut feeling” is now even though it was “wavering” later on, in regards to the treasure possibly being found this summer.

Cheers to all searchers in the past and present!!

  by CharlieM –

 

 

59 thoughts on “The Poem Married to a Map…Part Two

  1. Gota love headwaters. I used to live near the Mississippi headwaters. I once was at a spot where the river is only fifteen feet wide. After standing there feeling the draw a large, largemouth swam up to me then left. Three minutes later it came by again. I tied on my goto and waited., nothing. It ignored it and made it’s pass. After about an hour and exhausting almost all of my arsenal, I pulled out a new lure my father bought me. I saw the lunker heading my way and placed my cast two wiggles in front of the it. Well, it only took one wiggle and that finicky fish slammed it. Long story short, that lure was a Shad Rap., but don’t tell anyone. A game changer then., if one is a spin caster, and still is. But don’t tell anyone.. g

  2. Hi CharlieM,,
    First, congrats on knocking around in some wild country. Since significant geographic seperation is involved Still trying to figure
    the leap between the upper Rio Grande and
    and Silverton,, but its late (early), maybe I’ll be able to see it better later.

    • BATTY,

      If you look at GM and start at the headwaters of the RG, you take the canyon down, not far and is too far to walk. There is no leap as you say, it might be you are thinking there is no road to take right at the start wwh. F said he followed the clues, and didn’t say the entire route has to be driven/walked, but we know he parked his car to hide the treasure. He has never said there is a road at the beginning.

      Logic tells me that a map has to be looked at, as we all used a map right from the get go. So you can follow all of the clues when trying to discover the hiding place using a map.

      All F said he followed the clues, but he didn’t say how he did so for the entire path of the poem. Was it all from memory? Yes, Did F “physically” follow all of the clues? Who knows, F never said he did that I know of.

  3. If I remember right Forest Fenn is quoted as saying the treasure is not near the Rio Grand. But my memory is failing, perhaps he stated some other river.

  4. Regarding your analogy of warm waters halting—it is vastly wrong and ignores some basic facts about the Rio Grande, and rivers in general.

    “How does the Rio Grande River (sic) halt? When all of the snow melts off the water flow does halt or stops where the river is first formed, there is no more water. I think of it this way, when you turn on a faucet the water flows (melting snow) and when you turn off the faucet the water halts, (snow finished melting). This is the best analogy that I could present.”

    The Rio Grande is a river. Rivers, as opposed to streams, never stop flowing. Most streams are intermittent or seasonal and can stop flowing, rarely due to freezing as much as the ‘dry season’ and its lack of rain. But all year long water makes its way down the channel of the Rio Grande. It never stops flowing and there is no halting of this river. Your warm waters—and your grasp of the facts—lie elsewhere.

  5. CharlieM,
    I found an old map an managed to connect each clue to a geographic reference on the map beginning with WWH and each clue except for the Blaze. I’ll be BOTG soon. When I return, and logic suggests without the treasure, I’ll share that info with the search community. Since I am a one and done searcher, no reason to hold on to the research.

    • Dennis,

      The starting point would be the headwaters, but the rest of my solution is not near the river. As you said above the “treasure” was not hidden near the RG. Where I believe the treasure is hidden is nowhere near the RG.

  6. My Friend –

    I am still reading down through your post. Here is a thought right away.\
    Did you say that warm water halts at the faucet?
    How many Dean Fausett paintings had Fenn sold? What were they named?

    Lug

    • Lug,

      The faucet is an analogy to show water does halt whether its at a faucet or where the water from the snow melt is done/stopped/halts. I hope this helps.

  7. Charlie—
    I don’t mean to be anal retentive and picky, but “tense” may be very important to solving the poem. You say “If you are wise and found the blaze” but the wording is actually “If you’ve BEEN wise and found the blaze”
    You also say “your effort is worth the cold”. The wording is actually future tense: “your effort WILL BE worth the cold”.
    Again, I know this is being picky, but I really do think the poem is written in the tenses used for a reason, and paying attention to that may be important. In another post you made you asked for critique– so just giving some. lol.

    I do want to point out that Forrest said “there are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm Waters halt”. And depending on the definition of “Warm Waters” that is very true. It “warm Waters” are rain or snow they halt there. If “warm Waters” is a convergence of rivers they also halt there. But if “Warm Waters” are referring to one specific thing that would not necessarily hold true.

    “There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where Warm Waters halt, but…”. I have often wondered where warm Waters halt isn’t even in the Rockies. They are where we BEGIN our journey. I personally believe they may be in Oklahoma for example. There may be many places in the Rocky Mountains where common definitions of “warm Waters” do halt– but there may only be one place where the true “Warm Waters” halt.

    One last thing I might add is that most searchers think of the search heading from Forrest’s house (for example) and him driving to the hiding place. But what if he did the opposite? What if he left a meeting in Montana and flew into Tulsa, Oklahoma, rented a car, and drove back to New Mexico, hid the treasure, drove back to Tulsa, and flew back North to Montana again to complete the meeting? That’s a long hard way to hide the treasure in the same state that you live in, but who knows?

    But in the end I think I might stay with MC Escher’s ghost on this one and center on Southwest Montana. 🙂

  8. Sparrow,

    Thanks for your thoughtful comments (as usual).

    The Great Divide Basin? It’s been my favorite WWH, except for the “And take in the canyon down”. The two statements seem to contradict each other… but I digress; often!

    –Fennatical

  9. CharlieM,

    Thanks for posting your solution. I mean that sincerely, however, you lost me in the 1st two (2) sentences.

    “From my previous solution (Part One), I did not explain well enough, where warm waters halt, how I arrived at the Headwaters of the Rio Grande River, to be the first clue in the poem.”

    1. It’s not the “Rio Grande River” … That would translate to “River Big River”; a term developed by the DRD (Department of Redundancy Department).

    “The Rio Grande River has been classified as warm water by the New Mexico Fish & Wildlife.”

    2. If you read the NM Dept. of Game and Fish regulations (NOT “New Mexico Fish and Wildlife”) carefully, you would understand that the northernmost (~100 miles) of the Rio Grande in New Mexico are classified as “Trout Waters” (ie. Cold Waters).

    Based on your first 2 sentences… it’s a bust. But thanks again for posting!

    –Fennatical

  10. Charlie…do you understand that creeks flood during high flow events? And that extreme high flow events would easily obliterate any treasure chest? Why would anyone think the chest is anywhere within the floodplain of a stream? I just don’t understand that kind of thinking. Help me…

  11. Fennatical … why should some redneck in Texas, or housewife in Vermont, be required to research technical material put out by the “NM Dept of Game and Fish” or the “New Mexico Fish & Wildlife”? These government rules are too specialized for many searchers to know without research, and therefore smack of unneeded technical knowledge.

    In the opinion of this judge, your objection is thus overruled. 🙂

    Ken (in Texas)

  12. Hi CharlieM … some things about your solution I like, other things I’m more skeptical of.

    What I like … 1. your solution is not part of the Yellowstone/Gallatin clump of solutions, and is thus a refreshing change,

    2. though I have a different idea about WWH, I can buy into the idea that FF could have defined WWH as the headwaters of a river,

    3. the geographic scale of your overall solution is satisfying, with clues spread out over many miles,

    4. and in the responses, I like how you defended your selection of the Rio Grande; FF has never said that the Rio Grande is off-limits as a consideration for WWH.

    A bit skeptical of the following … 1. your use of technical knowledge from “New Mexico Fish & Wildlife”,

    2. your definition of HOB; I’m having trouble locating any “Brown Mountain” anywhere close to Silverton; the closest would seem to be a good six miles north of Silverton; too far away to be a legit reference to HOB in my opinion, and that assumes FF would select a “mountain” as reference point to HOB, which I doubt,

    3. I take it that searcher must wade into cold water to retrieve chest; I think that’s too potentially dangerous, and FF has already said the chest is not under water; correct me if I have misinterpreted this part of your solution,

    4. your note “I strongly believe my solution … is more than likely in the correct hiding area”; that’s what every searcher would say about their own solution; it’s thus unneeded and conveys the impression that you are still trying to convince yourself.

    Thanks for posting your solution, especially a solution in Colorado.

    Ken (in Texas) 🙂

  13. Charlie…Everyone interprets things differently… just read the blogs on a regular basis and that becomes glaringly obvious. Fenn’s Chase has boggled the minds of many would be treasure hunters and so far Fenn has been successful in his endeavors.
    My first impression of your *story* embraces the simplicity that you purposely were mindful of. That resonates through your story and your many posts here. That said…I cannot wrap my head around any interpretation of the first clue that just magically appears without at least some *nudge* or direct influence from the poem or book. To just pluck one area from GE or a map just does not seem like that fits the bill for a carefully scripted/planned riddle poem solution. I read both of your stories carefully and did not see how that crucial first clue tied back to anything really solid from the info given to us. Sorry if I missed something to the contrary…and thanks for putting your hard work out there for everyone.

  14. Thanks for all of your input, all have dismissed my interpretation of what is mostly with technicalities. The very first thing that came to my mind was the RGR, only because of the references that I heard and read in the past years of my life.

    I did not see much on comments with the rest of the solution. One was that Brown Mountain was too far away from Silverton to below the hoB. The big question is how far is below, feet, yards or miles?

    The other was that the wood more than likely be washed away, true but in this case the wood is tightly wedged in the large boulders. The other was with the treasure being under water. The logs are large enough to be in and out of the water preventing the treasure from being under water, but could be wet.

    All in all, wwh is the biggest issue and interpretations. I’all have to take a closer look and not look at technicalities as that to me could be considered specialized knowledge.

    Again thanks for all for your inputs.

    • ” If your solve is in the desert, get a new solve, and remember, much of the Rio Grande River is not in the Rocky Mountains.”f

      • this quote from fenn i found right here on dal’s site should take us even further away from the rio grande…

        The treasure chest is not under water, nor is it near the Rio Grande River. It is not necessary to move large rocks or climb up or down a steep precipice, and it is not under a man-made object.

    • Pastor Wallace’s death, actually. What JD said above, and this too:

      “The treasure chest is not under water, nor is it near the Rio Grande River.” f

      Jake

  15. I hate it when people say “Rio Grande River” … It’s The “Rio Grande” …. Why does this bother me… I don’t know…

    Details… perhaps.

    Best of luck to all, even to the non detail oriented.

    –Fennatical

    • For those that do not understand Spanish – They may be confused.
      Rio in Spanish means River so, saying Rio Grande River, one is saying
      “River Big River” – for the detail oriented – JDA

  16. I’m only sort of following you with your WWWH description, but I think I get the gist of it (something about snow melt).

    I once considered ski areas for where warm waters halt (skiing), but couldn’t make the rest of the poem fit for any of them.

  17. The one other thing that I need to clarify. Yes F said, “The treasure chest is not under water, nor is it near the Rio Grande River.” f, Where I believe the treasure is hidden, *Is Not Near the Rio Grande* in no way. Nor does my solve follow the river in any way. Some believe you can not include the river at all. F’s statement the TC is “not near” the RG, he never said the rest of the poem cannot be associated with the river.

    Also, I never felt the TC was under water, but that it was wet. I looked in the wood, not under it in the water. By the way the water is very shallow as in just above the ankles and less.

    • Shallow in August, Charlie, but ankle-deep water didn’t create that logjam.

      I echo toughshed’s comment above – if the chest was hidden that close to a creek or river (as in both your Clear Creek and South Mineral Creek end spots), it’d wash away or be buried before too many springs go by, if not already. Clear Lake isn’t the only “water high” above the falls – to the west about the same distance remember there’s a whole other complex of l’il alpine lakes (Ice Lake Basin, right below the 13k’+ snowcaps) also feeding Clear Creek.

      On the flipside, here’s a possible refinement – if you continue north along 585 (instead of turning west up South Fork Mineral Creek) for just a couple-few miles, you come to Brown’s Gulch, tributary to Mineral Creek’s mainstem. So you could reverse your directions; in other words, “put in” there and go south *towards* Silverton on 585 before turning right (west) up the South Fork Mineral Creek towards Clear Creek.

      [I’ll leave off discussing ff’s problematic Rio Grande safety tips – that’s a whole other thing. The Grande’s too dangerous, but the Arkansas, the Green, the Canyon of the Yellowstone, etc, aren’t?]

      Jake

      • Jake,

        Your right ankle deep water didn’t create the log jam. I’ve been thinking about that scenario, but at the same time I’ve been thinking about, “Your effort will be worth the cold” and also F said the TC is wet. So *cold & wet* to mean water. However F did not say if the TC is wet from weather or water all of the time. The reference to cold could also mean the air temperature. These are things I need to figure out.

        About the Brown’s Gulch thing, either way one still ends up in the same place. I don’t see any correlation to wwh above prior to the gulch, the only warm water is in Ouray, from there one would be going up the canyon, not down.

        I also said that I never went down the RG, I just started there at the headwaters and *away* from there. It boggles my mind why this cannot be understood, I went away right from the start and didn’t even follow any water, I simply went down the canyon going somewhat Northwest, not south.

        I’m just frustrated as to why its so hard to understand. Maybe looking at the big picture (map) will help. 🙁

        • Yep, Brown’s Gulch would just be a different way to stitch a Brown into getting to the same place you ended up. You’d be descending the canyon *down* from Red Mountain Pass, and following Mineral Creek towards the Animas at Silverton before turning off to go *up* West Fork Mineral Creek. And once up Mineral Creek, finding a place to look that isn’t *in* West Fork or Clear Creek.

          Sorry to throw the Rio Grande sidebar in there, Charlie. I only mentioned ff’s quote yesterday in direct response to Musstag’s request for the quote, not as a comment on *your* solution. My sidebar mention today was intended to [isolate it as a different topic] from my two paragraphs that *were* relevant to your search.

          My own understanding of a complete poem-map covers a much smaller area than your map of the poem does, but I’m not on your thread to persuade or dissuade on that score, and I still find it useful to read others’ perspectives on the scale of a “right” map. (On our 30th anniversary my wife reminded me that I was wrong one time, and I’m smart enough to know it could happen again.)

          Jake

        • Charlie…I will try to explain why your WWWH is hard for me to understand. You begin at headwaters of RG at Stony Pass. Instead of following the RG drainage and canyon down, you instead travel west (the opposite direction), up and over the Continental Divide, to follow a creek and “canyon” that is a trib to the Animas. You have left one drainage for another in order to get to Silverton (rather than Creede). If, and this is a big IF, the poem can be understood as a metaphorical “journey by water”, you have seemingly abandoned your starting place thereby leaving the poem almost immediately, IMO. I’m familiar with that logjam, it can be reached off a small spur trail from the Ice Lakes trail…most years that creek is a raging torrent until mid summer, and literally hordes of people are there daily. On the plus side, you are exploring a very beautiful part of Colorado. Watch out for hungry porcupines…one chewed thru my wiring harness and goodbye 4WD when I was there for some 13er summits a few weeks ago. Thank goodness for high clearance. Have fun out there and you might consider Ironton as ” below ” HOB. My climbing guide to CO 13ers has me put in there if I want to climb the peak. Lots of people have used Ironton in their solutions, for obvious reasons. Lastly, when I arrive at my search location, I always ask myself “would Forrest leave his treasure in this place?” Does my search area fit the criteria for where someone would want to rest in eternity? Good luck, and Colorado is a great place to find treasure.

          • Sandy,

            Sorry with a late response. It sounds as though you are saying that the poems path should be associated to water, ie.. drainage. If one chooses to cross the continental divide to follow the path of the poem, shouldn’t be a problem as there are no restrictions of what one crosses, I don’t believe that is a problem. The RG is a starting point for me only, from wwh to the hiding place doesn’t necessarily need to follow any drainage in between.

            Yes, Ironton is below Brown Mountain, but I could not find any other correlation to the poem in that area. Even after wwh everything in my solve as a direct correlation to the poem up to the blaze. Now I have to find the correct blaze and Clear Lake road and Clear Creek Falls are out.

            Thanks for your input and gives me other things to consider that may help.

  18. Hey Charlie! The idea of the poem as a metaphor for a journey by water is a big IF.

    A few years ago, my best friend, who teaches graduate level poetry and literature at CSU, presented the poem to her class and had them analyze the author’s “message”. 75% of the class believed that the poem is guiding us to embark on a journey by water. They also found some word play, like “glisten well”.

    Forrest has told us that the reason searchers who were within 200′ of the treasure and failed to find it was because they “left the poem”. Did they leave the water?? I have no idea. Just food for thought…

    Next time you are in Silverton, stop be the Avalanche. Good folks there.

    • Just as an aside….my daughter teaches Special Education at Durango High School and told me this story.
      A couple of years ago, in an early morning geography class, the lesson/discussion was about Forrest Fenn’s poem and its relationship to geography. One of the kids, who was very excited about the Chase, whipped out his cell phone and called Forrest while the teacher wasn’t paying attention. Forrest answered the phone!! The teacher was mortified and the kid had to apologize. Apparently, Forrest doesn’t screen his calls. What a great way to get kids interested in geography…a treasure at the end of the rainbow if you pay attention in class LOL.

    • Great post Sandy,
      If I had to choose, I suppose I would rather be with the 75%. Just applying law of averages. My map follows the water which I would think counts in the 75%.
      Jeff

    • Sandy –

      Ha, I was just talking about this.
      The phrase would be Listen Well.
      And Listen sounds like Ann Glisten

      But we begin with Salt or Saw It

    • Sandy,

      Thanks again with your input, I guess that I am of the 25%ers that do not feel that travel by water is required. I can’t imagine any type of watercraft would be necessary for any part of the poem. That would require all searchers to have watercraft and the knowledge to navigate waters of any kind in the RM, I find that not plausible and not safe.

      The Avalanche, I’ve been there less than a few times, I would say Silverton has quite a few good people there, in fact I found no unpleasant folks there, including the visitors.

      Thanks,

      • Charlie…I did not mean to imply a *physical* journey by water requiring a boat or watercraft of some sort. I’m more interested in a metaphorical journey and marrying *those* places to a map. I think water is most definitely involved but I won’t need a raft or Ken’s fins where I am going. Maybe some slosh sandals lol.

  19. Lug – “and I know the chest is wet”… could glisten and blaze be synonymous? Nah…..

    glis·ten

    synonyms: shine, sparkle, twinkle, glint, glitter, glimmer, shimmer, wink, flash;
    “the sea glistened in the morning light”
    noun
    noun: glisten; plural noun: glistens
    1.
    a sparkling light reflected from something wet.

  20. charlie – You have to understand something about surface water hydrology and stream erosion. Yes, a creek may have a shallow trickle of flow much of the year and yes, a treasure chest could be hidden amongst some wedge of logs or debris above the water line. However, streams in the West experience high flow events from intense thunderstorms and heavy snowmelt on an irregular basis. They ALL do. There is no way the chest is located ANYWHERE near a stream or gully where it could be swept away and scattered forever. It’s not there. Your solve is incorrect like 100% of the solves to this point, including my own. Know when to give in to common sense and save yourself time and $.

  21. Fenn said the chest is left in a very special, dear place, private. I don’t recall the Rio Grand as being mentioned at all with regards to being special to Fenn. What lead you to look in this location? . Just curious in my search for all information…and theory’s.
    Thanks,
    Kit

    • Kit Kat

      I think I expressed this before, the special place I believe is where the treasure is hidden and to be his resting place at one time. This place is his very own secret place. Some think his special place is of complete beauty near WY, somewhat to what F found while in Viet Nam, I do not think so.

      I just happen to think his hiding spot could very well be somewhere obscure and out away from places that F has known to be associated to.

      Just Say’n

      • CharlieM;

        Close your eyes. Picture a beautiful waterfall in the near distance, hear its rumble and roar in your ears. Feature a placid pool below that waterfall – a pool that you often dished. Now feature a lovely box canyon near-by – A box canyon that was once a waterfall.
        Now feature a quiet tree against which you often sat and contemplated just how this magnificent valley came to be.

        Now, open your eyes – you are at “THE” place – JMO – JDA

        • JDA,

          That is your imagination, you and I know that what we see in our mind is more than likely not true, may be close and then again way off base.

          Thanks, Just Say’n

          • It may, or may not be my imagination CharlieM – It may or may not be true and it may or may not be close or may or may not be way off base – Time will tell my friend – JDA

      • CharlieM

        There is still the “riddle in the poem” which must be solved to find the treasure. Until we find the riddle secret, we can be within 200′ of it and not know it.

        This is from “On the Road with Charlie – Part 1
        (I found in Tarryscant.com)

        “Well, it’s hidden in a pretty good place. It’s difficult to find, but it certainly isn’t impossible. But if you’re gonna find the treasure, you’re gonna have to solve the riddle that’s in my poem. The nine clues that are in my poem. Nobody’s gonna happen on that treasure chest.”

        Have you any idea what the riddle in the poem is? I have been thinking this way for awhile, and I believe I have a piece of it. I had this revelation while rereading “Gold and More” in TTOTC.

        I wrote to Forrest about this, but of course, no response as yet.

        Franklin

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