The Blaze…

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This is the place to discuss the the blaze. What do you think it is? Is it temporary or permanent? Will it be around for a thousand years or doesn’t it matter? Is it easy to spot or difficult? Does the poem tell us what the blaze looks like or what it is?

Nick Lazaredes of SBS-TV’s Dateline in Australia interviewed Forrest in the spring of 2014. Here is Forrest explaining the BLAZE.
https://dalneitzel.com/video/audio/blaze.mp3

559 thoughts on “The Blaze…

  1. “While it’s not impossible to remove the blaze it isn’t feasible to try, and I am certain it’s still there.” –Forrest 9/26/2014

    • IF it’s manmade, a great fit is a USGS marker:
      1. Markers are a kind of blaze.
      2. It will last hundreds of years.
      3. It could be removed but not without difficulty and tools [and getting arrested if caught!]
      4. Forrest could reasonably assert that “it’s still there”.

      But … I researched hundreds of such markers in the “good” search areas in multiple states, and none seemed to be in likely-to-match-the-clues locations. Could be a marker that wasn’t in the GE database, though.

          • The question is “What kind of a box?” How about a “Box Canyon?” – Just musin’ – JDA

        • Hi JDA: Icebox Canyon in eastern Yellowstone is even better. Warm waters eventually halt in an Icebox (for all practical purposes), and it seems like a good place for your effort to be worth the cold. 😉

          • yep… and Amphitheater mountain is right there close to bring in “hear me all and listen good”.
            🙂

          • there are a few of these ice box canyons but i think it is a mineral base of some sort of solid good day to all, there is a blanket of snow out side, so I think ill curl up with a warm book ttotc is my first choice be safe out there

  2. I always thought the blaze is the sunrise over the mountains at 10,200 ft. When it just winks at you the shadows move across down the mountain it will lead one to the path one seeks.

    • Tracy, the blaze is a clue. Remember, searchers have been to the first two clues and walked right by the other 7. You cannot walk by the sun, or the sunrise. But your analogy does, IMO, come into play, just at another time, or clue. IMO, it’s like Indiana Jones in the map room. Hold up a staff, the sun at a certain elevation will cast a shadow. (IMO, early morning, 7′ stick shaped like a “Y”, sun at 5 degrees, gives a shadow)easy to figure out how far the shadow is.

      • I have been talking about HOB and the blaze being related to the sun for a long time. When I say this, I do not mean the actual sun. I am talking about a natural formation that is suggestive of the sun.

        Interestingly, the natural formation does create a shadow, but not in the same way the sun shining creates a shadow. The formation is a creation of a shadow of the past.

        It took me a while, but I think I have discovered something. I think the fact that FF was busy making bells and jars while his wife was watching Dancing With The Stars is an interesting hint to HOB and the blaze.

        Another interesting hint IMO is the fact that FFs boss that fired him from selling newspapers was driving a big yellow caddilac. Personally, I am not entirely sure FF ever sold newspapers. I think the newspapers are a metaphor and a fascinating one actually. I think that when FF told us that its not what the bligs say, but rather what they whisper, I think he is talking about the shadow of the past and not the internet blogs.

        I believe there is another hint to HOB and the blaze in the chapter about the gypsies. Ive blanked out on the title of that story in TTOTC. But the hint is where FF lays in the tall grass behind the wagon wheel and watches the flames dancing while the girls dance around the campfire.

        This story about the gypsies dancing around the campfire is the very same story as the painting FF traded for his gallery- the one with the fairies dancing around the rock. Different people and places, but the story is the same story.

        All IMO

        • I don’t know if the sun has something to do with the hoB or the blaze, but, when I think of sun dance or dancing with the stars, I’m drawn to the Bighorn Medicine Wheel. There are offerings still left at the site today. Mostly, those offerings are bells. If you put Dr Eddy’s diagram over the wheel, you get an arrow pointing a certain direction. The tip of that arrow being the “F” cairn. If you sit in the middle of the wheel and extend a tangent line that follows that arrow, you go right thru the 24th spoke. This creates a 22 degree angle, which can be referenced by “his rainbow”, or a rainbow halo, 22 degrees.
          It seems to form a map to, IMO, a bell. The one on page 137.
          When I think of the shadow, I reference: knowlege, Skippy standing, and “right straight” comment. This involves the key, the 9th clue, the word that is key, and the time given in the 24th line. For me.

          It all is within 200′ of each other, the final clues. Even though the sun cannot be a clue, it still has something to do with the chase, IMO. And, if that is the case, most likely it’s light must reflect from something. If you believe that a shadow has anything to do with anything.

          As far as the Gypsies, there is also a hint in the pic itself. Just look at the fire and her dress, obvious something there. Maybe dancing around, wheel, fire, stars, and campfire are the hint in that story. Again, the wheel. All possible, so I’m with you flutterby, maybe not seeing the same way but seeing that these possible hints will play a role. Who knows, but seeing where that med. wheel points, there goes Colorado and New Mexico…:) Southwest Montana, Northwest Wyoming. But that’s IMO…

          • Poisonivy,
            What in the poem tells you to go to a medicine wheel? IMO, something in the poem has got to tell you to go there.

            I think the sun itself is HOB, but you have to know the representative land feature on the map. “If you’e been wise and found the blaze” then you will have wisely identied WWWH and the adjacent HOB.

            IMO

          • Flutter, I have alpha/numeric numbers. There are primary values and secondary values. When I add those two values, (the alpha/numeric coming from the poem only), I get 137. (80 and 57).
            That takes a searcher to pg 137 in the book. I would have to find notes to go into detail, but, dancing with the stars, bells, etc… landed me to research medicine wheels. In researching Medicine wheels, of course, you find yourself at Bighorn. In solving the Medicine Wheel, a map is formed, pointing to “X”. For me, it ends up right at the spot my 8th clue is. That is why I say there is a bell on the path. All from the alpha/numeric values from the poem.
            It is outside info mostly, and read as much. The Med Wheel is not a clue to the chest, it is a hint to a bell, IMO, gathered from the poem, and may be a hint to “X”. It is not part of my path, but it does have a lot of support from the book and the poem.

            I don’t know how the hoB would be “adjacent” to wwwh would be if hoB is the sun, I would think in that scenario, we would have all been fried by 4 billion years ago, but if you mean the sun’s rays, possible. From what you are saying, it looks like you have all the clues very close to each other. Also, the hoB is not a clue. I would agree with the later. HOB is not a clue. I think clues 4-9 are close to each other, but 1,2, and 3 are some distance away, IMO.

          • P.I.

            You say: Also, the hoB is not a clue. I would agree with the later. HOB is not a clue. – If hoB is not a clue why is it in the poem, and why does Forrest mention it so often – like saying that if you knew hoB you could go directly to the chest (Paraphrasing) or that if you find hoB that you could reverse engineer back to WWWH?

            Not being a clue, and for me an important clue, boggles my mind – but that is just me I guess – JDA

          • JDA, it is to vague of a statement. If you could go right to the chest by the 8th line in the poem, that seems a little quick.
            He has mentioned a lot of things in the poem, doesn’t make them clues. Plus, if you could go right to the chest , then hoB is not a structure. If it is not a structure, then what possibly could you find to say, “I now need to put in”?
            It’s to early in the poem, to vague of a statement, and an obvious place to look for a clue. That’s why it is not, IMO.

          • And JDA, like I’ve been saying, if you find the end spot, you could reverse engineer to find the start or wwwh. That would hold true for hoB also.

          • PoisonIvey;

            How is hoB too vague of a clue? We are told to begin it at wwwh – a findable place. We are told to take a canyon down – a findable place. We are told to go a certain distance – Not far, but too far to walk. Although somewhat obscure, definable (within a certain margin of error). We are then told to “put in” below the hoB. If you have correctly found the wwwh, the canyon and the distance, finding something that could be a hoB is very precise – NOT vague at all.

            IF you have not found the correct wwwh, you will not find the correct canyon and yes – hoB will be vague to YOU because of your miscalculation at not finding the correct wwwh. Not being critical just being analytical and logical.

            Eliminating a clue as being vague, just because you can’t find it seems a bit weak to me. Again, not being critical, just telling it like I see it, with an analytical and logical approach – but I am sure that I COULD be wrong, and just as sure that you COULD be right – It just does not look that way to me. Good luck with your search – hope I was not too harsh

            #2, you say that:- “If you could go right to the chest by the 8th line in the poem, that seems a little quick.” – Not 8th line, but 12th line since “begin” and 16th line from start of poem – That’s 2/3rds of the poem – leaving only 8 lines – I don’t consider that quick. I did NOT say that if you find hoB you are AT the treasure chest. Forrest was the one who referenced hoB and chest – see next item.

            #3 = you then say: “Plus, if you could go right to the chest , then hoB is not a structure.” How do you make this connection? Forrest was the one who said that if he were to tell you what hoB was – the searcher could go right to the chest. What does this statement (by Forrest) have to do with it being a structure or not? It make no sense.

            You continue: ” If it is not a structure, then what possibly could you find to say, “I now need to put in”?” ” Why does it have to be a structure (which Forrest is reported to have said it is NOT) in order for you to know where to put in. An incline leading to a body of water could be a put-in or take-out point – Just an incline that a vehicle and a trailer with a boat on it could go up or down – NOT a wooden ramp. It could even be a landmark of some kind. A hill, a group of trees – anything that you would notice and somehow equate to the name “Brown” could be a hoB.

            #4 if it is “It’s to early in the poem, to vague of a statement, and an obvious place to look for a clue” – If it is an obvious place to look for a clue, why eliminate it? True, hoB is at the 8th line, I did NOT say that hoB was AT the Treasure Chest, or that the treasure chesat was at hoB. Read Forrest’s statement.

            I do not find a location where I think Indulgence is until line 16 which is 2/3rds of the way through the poem. Again read Forrest’s quote. I am NOT equating hoB with where Indulgence is. Forrest says that IF he were to tell you what hoB is, you would go directly to Indulgence. He DOES NOT say that they are at the same place.

            Again, sorry, I just can not buy your logic. Again, good luck with your solve.

            If you are going to say something like “It is too vague” or “Too early in the poem” – please give us the courtesy of a bit of an explanation – Thanks – Again, sorry if I came across too harshly – JDA

          • Poison IV

            Are you aware your solve is exactly the same as another chaser?

            A well known cimmemtor on this very blog?

            I wonder if he is seeing this?

            Shocking.

            Lugnutz

          • Hi Ken –

            I figured it out reading other comments.

            That would be a first. I have never seen two identical solves.

            Also, I don’t know how much Charlie has shared publicly, so I didn’t name him.

            Cheers!

        • Poisionivey ~’This creates a 22 degree angle, which can be referenced by “his rainbow”, or a rainbow halo, 22 degrees.’

          It’s actually 42. The idea as been talked about immensely in connection to ‘fenn’s rainbow’ and the exact told weight of the chest and contents. On factor that is interesting is; the T in “treasure” is 42 letters and spaces from the A in As. Other thing mentioned, 265 coins for example seem to have some connections [ depending on how one looks at the wheel ] In fact, there are many types of connection to the clues in references to the information with the wheel; season, solstice, animals, directional pointers, colors, times of day, stars, birth, death etc etc.
          The possible connection to the “location” of the clues ‘references’ could be in stanza 5 as “tired and weak” or in this idea- Tired as in wheel, Weak as in Medicine man/Shaman.

          The other thing you mentioned is; ‘there goes NM CO…’
          The Big Horn medicine wheel is not the only wheel. In fact the many wheels found over a large area [ US {into NM} and Southern Canada ] create a mega wheel, if you will. Kinda thinking along the lines: a map is a map, the more detailed a map the better if you have the ‘right’ map. And/or getting all the lines to cross… looking at the Big Picture. While it would be fun to attempt an idea like this, the problem I would have is fenn ‘following the clues when he hid the chest’… a single wheel location, might work, the larger idea doesn’t seem so.

          Where was I? oh! right… 42 is the degree of the sun angle that the light from the sun reflects at to create the rainbow affect.

          • Nope Seeker, can you believe you are wrong on this one? A rainbow Halo is a phenomenon in the mountains when “ice crystals”, high in the atmosphere, reflect light. Not water like a regular rainbow. The rainbow halo is seen at 22 degrees. And remember, I call it “your Medicine Wheel” since you reminded me of Med wheels a while back in an email. And funny you mention the coins in the chest. It turns out that my 8th clue, where I think a bell is, happens to be 265 miles from the center of the med wheel, straight thru the 24th spoke, which is at 22 degrees. And I know you don’t get into my alpha/numeric values, but, Forrest Fenn, if you remember, is 14,8. Remember, pages in the book, but also 22. “His” rainbow, 22 degrees.
            And yes, I know regular rainbows are at 42 degrees, but in the chase, rainbow halos are what should be researched.
            Actually, I consider the wheel as outside, support info. It’s not part of my path, but there is a reference to all his stories. It’s good support info, checks and balances if you will, seeing how it’s coins in the chest miles away, that non-clue of coins, gives reason why he said 265 instead of just saying what he had in the book, hundreds of coins. Saying hundreds still gets his point across, but he has remembered and stuck to 265.
            This has got to be one of the times I’ve seen you slip.:). Correcting 22 degrees without researching. lol, Maybe you don’t know this is Charlie, changed my handle for Aaron. Or you may not have questioned the Med Wheel, since you know you had something to do with me going back over old notes, looking at med wheels. No matter, just remember, rainbow halos, 22 degrees.

          • I’m not an astronomer; but A rainbow Halo is some thing you see around a moon or the sun, or a planet, right? To see one around earth you must be cleared for take off, because it can only be see from high up… at 22 degrees
            Standing on the ground a rainbow is viewed at 42 degrees… rainbow arch.

            LOL where are ya hunting?
            I have a great solve for Mars… WWH at mar’s [loss of atmosphere] surface and take it in the largest know canyon in the solar system, NF, but a heck of a walk if, your space suit has a lot of O2. I dare say it’s no place for the meek and just heavy loads [ mars ] and water high [Earth] align just right to discover the blaze.. the mountain size Mar’s face

          • I gotta say Seeker, I was watching that show, acts of science. They were in the mountains, and from the ground, at 22 degrees, (from what they said) a rainbow halo was seen with dog tags. It’s not from water molecules, it’s from ice crystals that reflect the rainbow effect. After research, it was verified, seen at a 22 degree angle from ice crystals high in the atmosphere. I wouldn’t lie to you.

            Water molecules are lower in the atmosphere, when sun light reflects off of them, the rainbow effect is at 42 degrees. Makes sense, higher crystals equal a lower angle. Lower water equals higher angle.

            Really doesn’t matter, it’s the statement of HIS rainbow, his name being what we’ve discussed before, and a 22 degree angle being formed. It’s the basis of a story or comment. I only post it because there are other rainbows and other degrees to consider, not just 42 degrees. It’s all just hints anyway, no clues here. Checks and balances….

          • adsmith,
            Yes- running through the cemetery was in the Gypsie story. I see that as an important clue to HOB. Also think the description is important when FF describes the flickering lights of the camp fire. Again; HOB IMO

    • 100% natural, IMO. Some supporting evidence: “I said on the Today show that the treasure is not associated with any structure.” — Forrest in Scrapbook 35.

      “Mr. Fenn, when you said not associated with any structure did that mean all 9 clues or just where the chest sits? Thanks, d”

      Forrest: “Yes d, it means the treasure is not hidden in or about a structure. Google “structure” for more information. f”

      Plus, not too many manmade “blazes” can last 100, 1000, 10000 years.

      • Zap,
        By what your quotes & statements are, I believe you think the blaze & treasure are in the same location, correct? I would have to disagree with that because the poem continues further., it doesn’t stop at the blaze. As far as a man made structure goes, the Statue of Liberty gets maintenance, does she not? She’s no Spring chicken!
        -B

      • Birdie: if the blaze is something fairly large — let’s use Norris Geyser Basin as an example — then if the treasure chest was anywhere in that geyser basin, its distance from the blaze would be zero. In this case, knowing the identity of the blaze would be a long way from being able to knowingly, deliberately walk within steps of the treasure chest’s location.

          • Zaphod wrote: “But a man-made blaze that can’t be destroyed or removed? Seems like a tall order.”

            Well it can, but it’s not feasable, right? I do not see why some clues shouldn’t refer to manmade objects just as a result of the chest not being associated to a structure…

            IMO the blaze can be manmade or a natural feature! You definitely cannot exclude manmade structures due to the ATFs above!

          • Zap,
            A geo marker is man-made, and surly can last. It made form the same material as the chest. Removing of the marker seems unreasonable / not feasible as well. Should something like this be a connected to a clue in the poem, I would think the idea of HLnWH might work.
            For example; many markers are attached to large rocks / boulder [ HL ] and may depict detailed information of water level or something about water [ WH ].

            It also might have something to do with the idea; Most of the clue references were around when fenn was a kid… might is be a marker of this sort was places after fenn was born?

          • Hi TLo! Regarding blaze removal, you wrote: “Well it can, but it’s not feasable, right?”

            I’m actually okay with the idea of a geo marker being used as a clue since they aren’t structures. (I’m not using any, but I don’t see a specific ATF that rules them out.) I’d be a little cautious about an overly broad interpretation of “isn’t feasible to try.” Removing a pipe-type geo marker would be stupid, but not especially bold by comparison to some of the absurd things searchers have done over the years. Now, removing a marker that’s cemented to a boulder might well be infeasible, short of dynamite-blasting!

            Moving on to the structures subject: “I do not see why some clues shouldn’t refer to manmade objects just as a result of the chest not being associated to a structure…”

            I have adopted Cynthia’s strict interpretation of Forrest’s response to her having used a CCC cabin as her home of Brown, and Forrest basically saying that was a no-no. Others take a more laissez faire stance: that the chest’s location and home of Brown cannot be associated with structures (and for those that believe the blaze and the chest are essentially co-located, then the blaze can’t be a structure either).

            But I think you are more addressing non-structure manmade objects as clues. I think it’s a pretty short list of objects that would pass the immovability ATF and/or durability/indestructability over centuries or millennia. Can you give an example besides geo markers?

          • Zap ~ ‘Now, removing a marker that’s cemented to a boulder might well be infeasible, short of dynamite-blasting!’

            Really… picking up a hand size stone and rap, tap, and smack around the the bronze plate would loosen the cement in a very short time? Dal’s climbing axe would work rather well for the purpose. LOL I wonder when it’s needed to replace a damage or worn-out … how much dynamite is used?

          • Another example: Hieroglyphic type markings that are easily view-able but not easily accessible.

          • Seeker, I suppose you’re right — since the Survey buttons are convex, you could chip them out with a hammer and chisel. I thought I remembered some from my Sierra climbing days that had perimeters that were slightly recessed below the rock surface to discourage removal/defacement. But all the images I’ve found online suggest they’re usually close to being flush with the rock surface.

          • Zap: my point of view is that FF never said the clues could stand the test of time for X or Y years! I think all those ATFs included relativizations, so IMHO you cannot make a strict rule out of it!
            You could exclude possibilities that could in fact help you…
            And last but not least you could be quite disappointed in the end if you realized you missed a big one by excluding possible clues on base of very vague ATFs!

            You wanted an example… well how about messages carved into a rock? Or a sculpture? How about a big wedge driven into a rock? Not impossible to remove but feasable? 🙂

          • TLo: I treat the ATFs as litmus tests for assessing “problems” with solutions. I have about 160 such ATFs from Forrest that I evaluate for conflicts. If a problem turns up, I try to find a loophole in Forrest’s statement.

            Admittedly, I am pretty brutal when it comes to not allowing contradictions; others opt to err on the side of permissiveness. For instance, when Forrest says, “There isn’t a human trail in very close proximaty to where I hid the treasure,” I would not find a trail within 100 feet to be acceptable. Others might feel fine with 50 feet or even less, and might justify that by saying “He didn’t say close proximity; he said VERY close proximity.”

            Because of my (probably overly) strict reading of the ATFs, I’ve never read an end-to-end “solve” on Dal’s that I thought was problem-free.

          • Folks have been stealing them for years for collecting or resale. There were a few on Ebay not long ago…one from Alaska even. I believe they have been reported by now. Folks can be rather ignorant….

          • Zap: a little what if…. what if there‘s a small item… just hidden under a rock where a clue should be… f. e. the blaze… but the blaze is hidden very well and you need to find that item first to get an idea where the blaze actually is? The first to find this item will probably take the item away so finding the blaze will be harder for the next searchers…

            Possible?

          • Tlo: possible perhaps, but I’m not a fan of removable clues. Forrest said he tried to think of everything, so I feel like it would run counter to the spirit of his challenge to have one of the later clues be a foot race for whoever finds it first, and then everyone else is out of the running.

          • Well you‘d not be out of the running… it‘s just getting harder and I think it‘s good to avoid searcher meetings at later clues…
            So why not?

          • Well, TLo, no one has found the chest after 8+ years, and up until late 2015 it appears no one had even solved more than two clues. So I think increasing the difficulty by removing a clue will make it unsolvable. (Recall Forrest’s missing ingredient in the cake recipe quote.)

            Some (most?) searchers believe that most of the clues must be solved on site. As you’ve probably surmised, I’m not one of them. I think this is an armchair treasure hunt, that every clue can be solved before you leave home, but that you will have to find one thing in person once you get there “because Google Earth doesn’t go down far enough.”

          • Zap: Yes I saw you post about this… IMO you need to be BOTG after #3 or #4… no chance from home…

            That’s why we both won’t disturb each other although we’re close… at least our search areas and some points of view and ways of thinking!

            When all this is over we should have a drink and see where we were wrong, shouldn’t we? 😉

            There’s a few of you guys I’d love to go through the chase with… a cold tin can in the hand… I met Morecowbell and Idle Dreamer and it was supercool and enlightning!

          • TLo: my main reason for thinking that you need to solve all the clues before you bother putting BOTG is Forrest’s self-proclaimed “target audience.” Moderately well-off searchers can afford to make dozens of trips to the Rockies; Forrest’s redneck with no job and 12 kids cannot.

            “When all this is over we should have a drink and see where we were wrong, shouldn’t we? ”

            Absolutely! There are so many searchers I’d like to meet.

          • But it’s exactly THAT redneck that will not plant his butt in front of the computer and analyze the poem over and through…

            The redneck FF refers to will take his pickup and go… BOTG… smell that air, let his beard grow, turn his cap around… and step into the wild!

            By chance he will relive FFs highlights and follow his footsteps!

            Get out of the office, away from the computer! Take your kids out, let the playstation where it is and show’em the woods!

            All this has nothing to do with research from home, leaning back in the armchair!

            All IMHO, sure…

          • But mainly I am saying this because I did just that… left my office, stepped into a plane, jumped into Yellowstone River and crossed it 6 times at quite a wild place… I was always aware of dangers and well prepared, too, but I just wanted to get to know this wildlife and so I crossed the border between civilization and pure wilderness for a few times! My personal guess is, that I learned it the FF-way, only 70 years later…

            I can’t tell you much about ATFs but how many German guys or even Europeans can say “I crossed the Yellowstone River six times and felt the power of water after it was easily swollen by a foot or two within one afternoon”…

            We lived our lives the FF-way during our trips and I think I know quite a bit about what this person did, felt, experienced and… in the end… thought! My way of solving this is clearly based on pure empathy and as an office guy from Berlin you cannot be empathetic in this case when you’re sitting in front of your PC in Berlin Germany… in an office that FF would have hated… 🙂

          • Hi Tlo: “But it’s exactly THAT redneck that will not plant his butt in front of the computer and analyze the poem over and through…”

            Then he will fail every time he goes out, assuming he can find the gas money to even leave home.

            “The redneck FF refers to will take his pickup and go… BOTG… smell that air, let his beard grow, turn his cap around… and step into the wild!”

            That all sounds like a nice vacation for him (though how is he planning to pay for it since he’s jobless?), but that plan has no chance of producing a treasure chest.

          • Okay the gas money…

            But still I am more on the gypsy-side of solving this… idealism…!!!

            How much is a computer? 🙂

      • “The treasure chest is not under water, nor is it near the Rio Grande River. It is not necessary to move large rocks or climb up or down a steep precipice, and it is not under a man-made object.”

        I do agree with what Zap and Jake are saying.
        Forrest says it is not necessary to move large rocks, but not small rocks. Why even say the size if its not relevant.

        Also, I do not feel that there could have been a naturally perfect “Blaze” close to “the Spot” the treasure is hidden. For that to have happened is too remote a chance. IMO.

        • And chose the stories he chose because they fit the spot where there is a natural blaze. Any man-made blaze will not last the test of time. IMO, you don’t need to see it to find the chest anyway. But sure helps.

          • Sorry poisonivey;

            I very much disagree. One MUST find and see the blaze in order to find and retrieve Indulgence – JMO – JDA

          • Whatcha talkin bout Willis?

            Why would there be mention of a blaze and having been wise and found it, if we don’t need to see it?

            You’ve got some ‘splaining to do, Lucy!

          • poisonivy,
            I think that if you dont have to see the blaze, then you dont understand the poem, dont know WWWH and certainly dont have a clue about HOB. Cant imagine how you could solve the poem if you dont understand it. IMO

          • This is a perfect example.
            https://ibb.co/gjJ3Cm

            Does anybody see the blaze? Or just marvel gaze?

            Being wise, f has played with a lot of pictures. Taken a lot also, as we see in his books. So, take the original pic and double it over onto itself.
            https://ibb.co/jvbaiK
            See the blaze now?

            He took pictures of Donnie when they went searching for Lewis and Clark. This spot very well could be known to him along with playing with the landscape. To see the things in the landscape referenced from a lot of his stories, and, seeing how he has not given the info to solve for the blaze, wwwh, hoB, then the searcher wouldn’t know what the blaze is. So, like I said, you very well could come up to this simple campfire when travelling your path to the chest, and not seen the blaze that could unfold. And, when I took the picture, I was facing Southwest. Just added info.
            Being wise, and I’m not saying this is 100% the blaze or anything, or that I’m wise, merely an example, but in identifying the blaze, in this way, gives confidence that you are on the right path. But, as you can see, it’s just on my path to the chest, don’t need to see it to find the chest. Plus, I got coordinates from outside source of this exact spot, and something like this is there? lol, maybe I’m on the heels of a jester searcher, to this exact spot, where the landscape does this exact thing, miles in the middle of nowhere. Of course he would have had to know f’s stories before they came out, but possible I guess. 🙂

          • Why change your handle cause of Aaron?
            CharlieM is here but still different.

            I still don’t like what you’re doing with the pics or numbers.
            Somethings never change. OK poisonivey is confirmed was charlie.

            I’m getting itchy…

          • Jake;

            Did I miss something is Poisonivey – Charlie?

            If this is true, Charlie seemed to make more sense than PoisonIvey – Seems like PoisonIves is a bit less logical than Charlie was. 🙂 JDA

          • yea,yea, It’s just one of those things Jake that fits me. To tell you the truth, I don’t like the solve. But I cannot dismiss all that it has come to prove. There is a design that is hard to get away from.

            JDA, how can I make sense to you when I’m talking another solve? I’ve always believed that a searcher will find the end spot first by solving the poem. Then your path is drawn, and where you start is at wwwh. In Anaconda. Wwwh, the blaze, hoB cannot be solved on there own, and it’s foolish to look for the blaze before wwwh. I would even say it is foolish to look for the blaze, but I don’t want you totally confused. See my examples, the blaze could very well be something along those lines. In which case, wouldn’t really matter if I saw it or not, right? There’s clues, hints, ATF’s, comments, SB’s, soooo much, but f has always said, solve the poem like putting an “X” on a map. All we need is the poem. If this is true, then solving the poem gives the end spot, makes sense. He said we need to figure out the clues, to learn and find, along with the info to solve some of the clues is not out there. What confuses me is that searchers go with what f says only sometimes, but when he goes against a solve, they just disregard. That’s what is confusing. We will have another whole Winter to discuss it. 🙂
            Jake, “all that scratchin’ is making me itch”. Anyway, you guys know I like to stir the pot a bit. ooohh, my favorite, the “sun” is a clue. That must be it, take a pic of the sun, flip it onto itself, you have the spot, (or just a bigger sun). Have my Grapette ready JDA.

          • PoisonIvey (charlie) – well, you are stirrin’ the pot.

            Sorry poisonivey (charlie) – all out of grapette 🙂

            JDA

      • IMO Forrest will be making an announcement soon. Something about the word TROVE being key and the star within the….O…or should i say the star within the star. It pays to live in Gardiner BINGO!! IMO

      • Zap,
        Talking about the redneck, you wrote, (though how is he planning to pay for it since he’s jobless?),

        Exactly quote! If he is jobless, he surely could never afford the fee into Yellowstone. Which I would take as off limits, cost too much to
        enter. Your thoughts?
        -B

        • I think just the cost of driving from most places in the U.S. would far exceed the cost of a National Park pass. Beat-up pickup truck getting a generous 25 mpg; average round trip distance of say 2500 miles for easy math: 100 gallons of gas. That’ll run you about $400 in California; a lot less in Texas. So a park entry fee is just a blip.

          The main point is that the jobless redneck with a football team’s worth of kids does not have disposable income for this sort of adventure.

          • Maybe the redneck with kids worked many years and saved a lot of money to finally enjoy his labors when he certainly has a lot of time and money.

            I’ll bet a child would recognize the blaze before an adult.

          • But Forrest didn’t say his target audience guy was retired:

            ‘My audience is every redneck in Texas with a pickup truck and 12 kids. He’s lost his job and has the thrill to go out and look for things.’

          • Zap

            Are you operating under the impression that Fenn is describing the actual audience?

            Do you not see the potential for a clue?

            For a guy that sees clues in all the scraps and interviews, I gotta wonder…

        • Rednecks in Texas must not have it as good as the rednecks in California. Lol Every poor family on welfare here, are sending their kids to school in expensive athletic shoes and carrying expensive cell phones. I think if someone wants it bad enough, they can scrounge up money for Yellowstone. But IMO, its not there, so that would be a waste of their money. Just my opinion.

          • I just don’t get it.
            Redneck does not = poor people.

            Zap said: “The main point is that the jobless redneck with a football team’s worth of kids does not have disposable income for this sort of adventure.”

            That statement by you Zap shows your shallow thought process automatically determining a redneck is a poor person that has no disposable income with kids.

            That’s sad and I knew you would say it sooner or later by reading your fancy words knowing you think you are better and smarter than us with your educational papers.

            I hope someday you get “The main point” but I doubt it.

          • I think the idea of ‘out of work’ is more important than money side of the comment.

            ~ “I’m not flippant about this. It’s not something somebody is going to be able to do on spring break or a Sunday afternoon picnic. I’m looking a hundred years down the road, maybe a thousand years down the road. People don’t understand that.”

            What don’t we understand about “down the road?” Funny thing is, isn’t fenn saying a redneck TX, who has summers off-?- could pack the family up and head on out… sound a bit familiar?

            Sure, sure, we can walk right to the chest, once we “decipher” and “follow” the clues correctly… right?
            But what’s the deal with a week off in spring or a stroll in the wood on Sunday about that’s not going to cut it? { spring breaks ~normally understood to be February, March, April and some May… in different locals across the US}
            Who’s waiting for the mud to dry?

          • Just shove it, Faulker. You don’t know diddly squat about me, and the more claptrap that comes out of your keyboard, the less I ever want to know about you. You can’t give me crap for using FORREST’S words to describe his audience, nor can you ascribe any positive or negative attributes to my take on the word “redneck” from having used it for quote accuracy. I’m a redneck, you idiot — I grew up in Virginia.

          • Come on now…..You are all taking Forrest too seriously. That quote was just a joke it has nothing to do with his real audience. He, on the spur of the moment just blabbed that out to the interviewer. His audience are people that are either treasure hunters or puzzle solvers, and he knows it. How many people would have bought the book if it didn’t have a treasure lure? A good way to get your memoir out to the public. I’m not saying there is no treasure, if fact, I believe there is because Forrest is a real man, and I believe a man of his word. No need for sign contracts just a hand shake.

            As to him looking further down the road…..maybe 100 or a 1,000 years is preposterous. If that is true then why is anyone now looking for the TC? If maybe 4 or 5 clues have already been found (solved) in 8 years why not 4 or 5 more clues n the next 8 years. The 100, or 1,000 years is just another off the cuff remark.

            Anyone here think that the 100 or 1,000 year remark is true then I suggest to start dealing the cards, grab a beer and play canasta. Good luck!

          • Manowar — totally agree with you. Treasure hunters and puzzle solvers are Forrest’s real audience, not weekend warriors or people who spend only a month working on the poem. Hundreds of thousands of people have failed in 8 years, so it’s pretty presumptuous for a poem “dabbler” to think they’ll succeed where the great hordes have failed.

            As for the duration, I think it’s *designed* to last 1000 years (or at least the clues will), but Forrest has the power to steer it into being solved long before that.

          • Fenn is a smart guy…but he is not clairvoyant. I believe his intentions have been explained by him multiple times over the years. His Chase is one of inspiration and hope…to get folks out in nature off the couch. There is a monumental *lure*… the ultimate hand tied fly as *bait*, and that is what kicked this whole thing off. To that end, it would be interesting to hear the *real* demographic break down. For certain there are folks with more available resources that can take many trips, but I think there are many with *less* that have made multiple trips as well. Is there really any advantage to be able to head out more often? The answer is pretty obvious.
            Labels don’t mean anything….Fenn wants sweaty bodies out there looking for his treasure and I believe that the successful person is going to have to *earn* it…just like the man has said.

            Hey…where’s the guy riding his bike to search? Did I miss it?

          • Jake –

            You are correct.
            Forrest would consider himself a redneck. He means nothing pejorative.

            Lug

          • Rednecks from Texas with a lot of mouths to feed during the ‘Great Recession’ and the treasure hunt :

            Forrest’s Dad didn’t have a job in the summer time do in order to survive on the cheap they lived primarily off of being “Gamesmen”.

            So the statement is more about a particular time or group of individuals known to enjoy hunting & fishing.

            In Forrest’s mind it’s a match made in heaven.

            There’s no mystery about his Redneck comment during the beginning of this Chase.

            GCG

        • Birdie Bates,
          You’re wrong about that. The gates close at 11:00pm, meaning the guards shack is closed but the gates remain open for all to pass through freely. The only time you have to pay is from 7:00am – 11:00pm.

      • Just realized by that quote the treasure cannot be under a pile of rocks (or sticks) as that would require it be under a man-made object.

        • Idle;

          I quite disagree. A rock is not man-made – It is natural.

          Are two or three rocks stacked together a man-made “Structure” – I rather doubt it.

          Pay close attention to the quote – he uses the term “Object” – which is singular. Are two, three or more rocks (Plural) considered a singular “Object” even if stacked in some way? I don’t think so.

          One must read a Fenn post with a lot of thought – all may not be what it seems – Just thinkin’ – JDA

          • JDA ~ ‘Are two, three or more rocks (Plural) considered a singular “Object” even if stacked in some way? I don’t think so.’

            Sure is… it doesn’t matter how many are stacked. When finished it is an object itself. A property marker, a religious marker, a grave marker… and even a trail marker [cairns] etc.
            Any object can be of more than one part… I dare say the Great Pyramid of Giza with over 2 million block to create it, is an object. Yet the Spinx is of one solid rock, only carved as an object…. all man created.

          • JDA: have to agree with Seeker on this occasion: stacked rocks (cairns, ducks, choose your term) are absolutely a structure.

          • I think stacked rocks are a structure. Multiple parts, assembled by a human is a strucure IMO. But, then I seriously doubt we are looking for human stacked rocks anyway. If nature stacked the rocks then that is something else.

  3. I read somewhere that FF said that there was billions of blazes. Which reminded me of Carl Sagans comment that there are billions of stars. This makes me want to believe that the blaze is either a star or circle with a dot in it.

    • Hi Michael how about a star with a dot in the corner of the star like the one on the cover of OUAW.But this is not the Blaze!

  4. IMO, the blaze is a land formation or part of one anyway, that will last 1,000 years unless an earthquake causes massive damage to it. I believe it is associated with a natural fen and has in its name, something about the sun. IMO

  5. When I was boots on the ground I came across an informational sign north of YNP. Near the bottom right was a picture of a big yellow dot with a Y in the center. They were the blazes used for the old trail into the north entrance of YNP from further north.

    Confirmation bias set in and for the rest of the search that kept clouding my judgement.

    Wish I could post pictures, but don’t know how to add them to a reply.

  6. Since the blaze is the second to last or last clue, I’m pretty sure that whatever it is, it’s small and only visible from 12 feet away. My guess is that it’s a 1-2 foot high flamelike red iron inclusion in a rock face.

    • I’m kinda going for some of the opposite of that. I think the blaze is big, so visible from a good distance. That distance is farther away than the first clue is from the tc.

  7. I’ll be surprised if it’s not some sort of medium(ish) rock or something on that size of rock and doesn’t point upwards.

  8. I, too, believe it is a natural formation/rock. The question is, has something been chiseled into/written on it? But what do I know? I’m a LONG way before that point in the poem. LOL.

  9. Midwinter spring is its own season
    Sempiternal though sodden towards sundown,
    Suspended in time, between pole and tropic.
    When the short day is brightest, with frost and fire,
    The brief sun flames the ice, on pond and ditches,
    In windless cold that is the heart’s heat,
    Reflecting in a watery mirror
    A glare that is blindness in the early afternoon.
    And glow more intense than blaze of branch, or brazier,
    Stirs the dumb spirit: no wind, but pentecostal fire
    In the dark time of the year. Between melting and freezing
    The soul’s sap quivers. There is no earth smell
    Or smell of living thing. This is the spring time
    But not in time’s covenant. Now the hedgerow
    Is blanched for an hour with transitory blossom
    Of snow, a bloom more sudden
    Than that of summer, neither budding nor fading,
    Not in the scheme of generation.
    Where is the summer, the unimaginable Zero summer?

  10. Zaphod,
    I agree that the poem can be solved at home. In a recent question/answer, FF stated this to be true. Someone asked if the poem could be solvable from home. The answer was something like, Yes in theory, but a person would have to go to the solve to retrieve the chest. So why is this even being debated by anyone? I dont see any room in his response for any other alternative. Do you?

    • Hi Flutterby: there is wiggle room:

      “How much progress can be made by someone just thinking and searching the Internet from home? (Another way of saying this: How many clues can only be decoded in situ?)” (Posted on Dal’s site on 2/27/2017, but interview was from May 2015).

      Fenn’s reply: “All of them, in theory, but not likely in practice. A searcher must go to the site to find the treasure.”

      It is precisely because he seems to say all the clues could be solved from home *in theory* that I believe they can and must be. If BOTG were strictly needed in order to solve one or more clues, then there is no way the clues could be solved “in theory” from home because you would lack critical information found only on site. In any case, I don’t see any way that someone could theoretically solve all the clues from home if clues 3-9 required a physical presence to spot them.

      • Zap;

        I have tried to solve eight at home on my computer, and thought I was successful. My last trip taught me that the first five were correct. – #5 for me was finding the blaze and looking quickly down. When I expected to find Indulgence it was not there, and never had been – MY ERROR.

        Solving the next 3 clues, I was able to again solve at home, but would never have been able to had I not had BotG and learned what I learned from being on-site.

        Lessons learned. Will try one more time (I hope) before the snow flies, and with BotG will solve #9 – I hope – JMO – JDA

          • Finder;

            Yes, still in Wyoming. We all parse the poem in different ways – which way is correct? Guess we will only know when it is found, and Forrest tells us how HE parsed it – JDA

      • Imagine that exactly those clues (let’s say 4-9 because it fits my solve) require on site research! In theory you could find them via internet but to connect the dots is practically impossible from your armchair…

        FFs comment leaves this open to your imagination or experience…

        So we cannot say for sure which way is correct… I’d say the chances are slightly in favour of the BOTG solution…

        • The quote from FF tells me that the entire poem can be solved at home, but the only way you know your solve is correct is BOG to bring home the TC.

          Ive gone BOG a few times but have yet to be successful. I continue to work on 3 solves that I believe could potentially be correct. If I ever rule one out, I will post it, but as long as Im still working on it, I only shate ideas. I have no doubt whatsoever that in theory you could solve the poem at home, but that you must be on site to collect the TC. That is my opinion. Anyone who thinks differently is more than welcome to make as many trips as they wish. Good luck! I think if more people shared ideas, a groupnof us could solve it together.

          • I do agree Flutter. That element of *confidence* and his *all of them in theory* comments do indicate that a searcher can solve up to actually *finding* the treasure at the location. Go to the site to find the treasure….

      • Not all of the #3 thru #9 clues need a physical presence (BOTG) to
        spot them. But it definitely helped with at least one of those. Using
        GE was very helpful as [well]. But it was on a Windows 7-equipped computer. A Windows 10-equipped computer may not work as well
        for this. As always, IMO.

      • Zaphod,
        I agree that FF’s statement indicates that all the clues can be solved at home but that you must do BOG to retrieve the TC. He also said that a person with the correct solve will go with confidence. That wouldnt happen if you only have a few clues solved. IMO

  11. Zap,
    You wrote, I don’t see any way that someone could theoretically solve all the clues from home if clues 3-9 required a physical presence to spot them.

    Home videos on YouTube, that’s what I did. I found hundreds of videos of people visiting my search area. Then, I watched them frame by frame.
    -B

    • Well, Birdie, that is a new approach. Wouldn’t work in my case, I see only two videos of my search area – Have memorized those, but they do NOT compare to BotG. Almost all of my “work” is done in my head, and Google Earth THEN BotG to confirm correctness/noncorrectness of my efforts – JDA

        • I agree. If people have been within 500′ and even 200′, (whether search related or not) – One would think that someone would have made a video. NO video’s – PROBABLY you are in the wrong place – JMO – JDA

    • Hundreds of videos of people visiting your search area? (And those are just the people who have POSTED their videos.) Does that really sound like the sort of place Forrest would enjoy? Or one where accidental discovery of the chest wouldn’t be a real possibility? Perhaps these videos you’ve found aren’t of spots near the end of your clues, in which case it might still be workable.

      • Zap,
        You wrote, Hundreds of videos of people visiting your search area? (And those are just the people who have POSTED their videos.) Does that really sound like the sort of place Forrest would enjoy?

        My answer, is yes! I do believe he would love hearing kids running around playing & laughing while enjoying the great outdoors, I sure do believe that!
        -B

      • Fair enough, but what about Forrest’s original plan: with his last dying breath to fling his body on top of the treasure chest? Seems that would lead to a rather terrifying discovery for those children.

        • No way… for the same reason a cougar or coyote or vulture will not be able to spread the remains over an area of 9000 sqf those children will not have a chance of finding him… nor indulgence! Except they are there on base of the poem… in this case the children could deliver the right ideas while not being the ideal choice for retrieving it!
          (IMO)

    • Birdie, if that many folks have made videos of that area, it’s not likely to be as
      specifically well-focused as you would like. I hope it’s not as large as New Mexico.

      The above is part of my opinion, don’tcha know.

  12. Zap,
    There’s a reason why Mr. Fenn said, no one will stumble upon it and there’s a reason why children would need help retrieving the chest. And there’s a reason why no one would smell him too, he’s been very cleaver. IMO
    -B

    • It almost looks like you’re implying that the chest is hidden inside a beaver lodge.
      (I said “almost”.)

      Coincidentally (no pun intended in “dentally”), there are signs of beaver activity kinda nearby (upstream), in the same general search area.

      Unfortunately, “general” info alone won’t lead to the “private” hidey place.

      Beavers have paddles. This may be more specific than general, but is
      not likely to help much with a great solve . . . but it might be useful to know that there probably wood be no beavers around if there were no trees in the
      vicinity.

      As always, IMO.

  13. I live in Australia and I have plans for BOTG next season. I went this Summer but I missed judged the snow melt and wasted my time, wasn’t fully prepared.
    -B

    • Birdie
      July thru mid August can be
      a more settled time.
      But, my direct 40 year exleriences
      in the W. side of the WINDS, also reminds me you can get an inch of snow, at only 7,100 ft on JULY 4th. Ha.!

  14. It’s been a long day at work of making mistakes and causing eye strain for my boss from so much eye rolling. So I’m going to take FF’s advice, be wise and find the B laz E. OK, the be wise part might be beyond me tonight, but I’m sure I can manage being laz E without even trying.

  15. I will repeat my idea about where the chest may be for those who have not seen my ideas. I will try to be brief and just name the steps according to his riddle.

    1. Begin where warm waters halt—Lamadera, NM. The Ojo Caliente (hot eye) River starts (halts) there.
    2. Take it (your journey) in the canyon down—The Canada de la Cueva is downhill or downstream a short distance.
    3. Not far but too far to walk—It is a short distance, but you can drive down to where he left the road. Much easier, and he wouldn’t be seen.
    4. Put in below the home of Brown—So you have gone down the canyon and you “put in” the river, meaning you cross it. It is shallow and below where Brown trout live—they live above this point.
    5. No place for the meek… There is a sheer cliff with a waterfall coming over it, but you can get around it by going 100 feet or so to the south.
    6. Drawing nigh—The end is indeed near. The entire hike is short as would befit an 80 year-old man.
    7. No paddle up the creek—The creek that pour over the cliff is very small. No paddle needed.
    8. Just heavy loads and water high— The heavy load part mystifies me a bit, but he might be speaking about it simply being an uphill walk. Water high… There is a lovely spring above although it is hard to see from the satellite views.
    9. As for the “blaze”. Go to a satellite view of the area and zoom in on the area above the Ojo Caliente I have described. You will notice a white “blaze” at the edge of that lovely spring. The “blaze” in not sand, but rather mineral deposits from the water.
    10. I was there, but didn’t look around as much as I would have like to. “Look quickly down…” At one time I thought it might be in that spring, but it has been said since that it is n not underwater. Perhaps under some rocks nearby… He has said it is not under any “big” rocks—if that another hint?

    Anyway, that is my thought, and having been there it is “still” my thought. To make it even more curious… He says if it is worth the cold and you are brave and in the wood… The mountains are “The Wood” mountains, and you might be cold from crossing the river…

    As for brave… Nothing dangerous—you can avoid the cliff, but I am NOT sure about the public access of all this… The Canada de la Cueva has private land to the north of it, and private land to the south, but the canon is a narrow unfenced corridor until you get right down to the river. Then there is a fence, but it has a large purposely made opening in it, and the fence might be to keep cattle from getting onto the road instead of keeping people out—I don’t know the truth of this and it is VERY hard to find out. Anyway, too much fits too well for me to think I am wrong… I am 1,500 miles from the place, too old, and not used to the altitude either, so it is not easy for me to check out. Anyway, that is still my guess on it all including where that very novel “blaze” is—and it will last as long as he said.

    • I’m mystified John.
      There is only one way to find out.

      “too much fits too well for me to think I am wrong”
      Think again.

      • Jake, I have been there twice, but ran into some “surprises” both times that prevented a thorough check… The first time, I didn’t expect a large spring with knee deep water. I didn’t expect the possible “private property” aspects of it either—perhaps the reason you are to take the chest and “tarry scant”. The second time, another car was there and a new fence was put up—a nice inviting opening in it, but the privacy aspect bothers me, not to mention that I am old, 1500 miles away one-way, and the elevation gets to me after awhile due to my living near sea level. Simply too much of a hassle for something that “might” exist, but if it did, I can’t imagine a better fit than what I mention. Everything from the warm water halting, to the “water high (in elevation) fits, and there is a sheer wall of rock that doesn’t even show up on the maps that certainly isn’t for the “meek”, and that inviting narrow corridor between two private lands. And all this in a short distance by foot. Finally, he has said it is a special place… This IS a special place. It is typical pinon, juniper area, but with a beautiful waterfall, a fantastic spring, and a small creek that runs underground, then to the surface, then underground, then up again… Certainly “special” for NM. If you have been there and searched though out that area, then perhaps your “think again” might apply somewhat, but I don’t know of any fully explained solve that fits better, with all clues fitting in such a short distance… And again, he finishes his riddle with, “If you are brave and in the wood…” Not “woods”. Those mountains are the Wood Mountains… No reason to “think again”, because I couldn’t do any better.

        • John,
          Private property scares me away.
          There’s millions of “special places” throughout the Rockies.
          Welcome to the club where everything fits the poem but only brings on fits.

          • Jake,

            That is my problem too… Private property. But I can’t confirm that it “is” private. That is the frustrating thing about it. I went to the local assessors office and their information was sketchy. The spring I mention is supposedly owned my some mysterious “group”—no names. There is that fence, but why a wide opening in it and no signs saying to keep out? If I knew it was private for certain—I’d give up on the idea. But part of me wonders if this could be part of the “riddle” too—finding out what is private and what isn’t… And I beg to differ, I don’t think there are that many solves where everything fits so well in such a short distance, and everything taken simply from his double meanings.

        • I don’t like NM as the resting state although it could be.
          The 200′ – 500′ comment by Fenn doesn’t fit here where your blaze is. I’m also not a fan of being able to see the blaze from GE.

          There are others here that agree with some of your findings and beliefs so I will bow out gracefully.

          Good luck in your quest.

          • I tend to like NM because I think he added the rest of the Rockies to both limit the search, but also get people away from NM. I am not aware of the “200′-500′” comment by Fenn, so I will have to try to check that… The “blaze”—if that is what it is, is easy to see when you are around it too.

            Good luck to you too.

          • One final comment about the “blaze”. He speaks about “being wise” and finding the blaze. You don’t have to be wise to stumble upon a marked rock or tree, so in my mind it must be something you have to consider out of the ordinary to find or recognize… Just a thought.

          • John;

            I have mentioned this before, but a “Wise old owl” will seek the highest perch possible to view its prey.
            Could this be a hint? JDA

    • John, I didn’t get passed number 1.

      Begin where warm waters halt—Lamadera, NM. The Ojo Caliente (hot eye) River starts (halts) there.

      Could you please show how the poem told you to start here? In fact, where do you solve the poem anywhere?
      This is a “throw a dart at the dart board” type of solve. Sorry John, not trying to be mean, but, IMO, you need to find a way to solve the poem.
      Usually, when solves start this way, the next thing that comes is the history lesson of the area, and how it goes with the next thing, some canyon. Never solving the poem. There are so many places that can “fit” the poem, that is not solving the poem.
      If you picked wwwh from history of the area, or sounds like, or random pick, that is guessing on a spot. The poem must give the answer, not the searcher. There are a lot of solves that follow this pattern. It is a first year type solve. Believe me, I did the same thing.

      Start in Willow, Wy. South to where Purple Mountain is in Yellowstone, continue around lake to road leading to lake in the woods, camp loll. It all fits, but is not solving the poem. Thousands of places in the Rockies like this. Like you said, “Anyway, that is still my guess on it all”, exactly, it is a guess.

      Don’t take this the wrong way, if our solves are not critiqued, we learn nothing and continue down the rabbit hole.

      IMO, forget all you know, look at the poem, a bunch, and find a way to solve the poem. No map needed yet, no book, just the poem. Try to find something that sticks out and shows pattern. Something that is done by design. The poem will answer your start place, not a guess.

      • Poisonivy,
        I agree that the poem must tell you WWWH. Making guesses wont help and will result in a lot of trips that don’t lead to the TC. The poem contains all we need.

        I feel like Im the only one that thinks that the words in the poem contain thr answers and guessing is not needed. I keep hearing that some steep mountainside or rapid stream is no place for the meek. I don’t buy it. That is just random guessing. The poem itself has to tell you the solutions to the clues. If it doesnt, we havent figured it out. IMO

        • Totally correct Flutterby. We can’t really knock the new searchers for taking the road that we all have started out taking. It’s hard for them to grasp that all their research and time spent everyday has been for not, or that they just wasted all that time. They won’t admit it or see it for what it is. They continue with the same “what they think” solve and don’t ever understand that solving the poem is something different.
          No research needed, no guessing, just the poem to give the actual answer. Time would be better spent coming up with their own niche to reading the poem.

          I keep hearing that some steep mountainside or rapid stream is no place for the meek

          It is just more guessing on top of guessing. When you start with a guess, you’re doomed to continue the pattern. They say it follows the poem, but that again, is a guess. We have tons of these solves, and the quicker they learn, the better they will be. It is more fun trying to solve the poem then it is going over the landscape looking for what looks like a path that follows the poem, or that magic dart that may luckily land on wwwh.

          If it was possible, IMO, it would be best to totally clear the mind of what they know, and just get the poem. Read it over and over, and find a way to solve the poem. Then, when done, look at a map, find the many hints, and confirm their solve of the poem. Then research the history for something to do, or just go get the chest, but not in Winter. 🙂

          • Poisonivey,
            I agree with your assessment about the private property aspect of all this. I don’t think F. would put the chest on someone’s private land. The place that nags at my mind has the small strip of public land between private lands. The county office was unclear to me about all of that, but one tiny parcel nearby was owned by some “group”. Could that be Fenn? There are things that you suddenly come across without expecting them. But clearly, I don’t think he would put it on anyone else land.

            I take his telling people to take it easy now that winter is near as perhaps both a precaution to those who might be careless, and “perhaps” one more way to have people thing about the colder climes.

            I’ve lived and worked in NM, but am in OR now. My idea about the effort being worth the “cold” is the fact that you have to wade across a cold river… The clue would always fit that, as well at it being in the “wood”, the La Madera Mtns. (The Wood Mtns)

            My so-call “solve” takes about 1/2 hour hiking or so to get to the area where I think the chest might be. Probably a bit more for older people such as myself or Mr. Fenn. Certainly nothing he couldn’t handle.

            I am probably wrong with all this, but I am content to wonder about it until I am sure I am off. Good luck.

      • Poisonivey,

        Where warm waters halt is tricky, but brilliant as a part of a riddle. You have to consider double meanings to every clue. Warm waters—The Ojo Caliente River (meaning Hot Eye in English). Then rivers “halt” at their end or at their source. The Ojo Caliente is one of those rare rivers that has a definite starting point. It is formed by the confluence of two other rivers with different names, the Vallecitos River and the Tusas River. So you know exactly where to begin your quest, if the other clues fall into line…

        Sorry, but if you don’t understand what a “riddle” is, or how they are solved, there is not much I can say. I might be wrong with the location, but I am certainly not wrong with my logic. And I beg to differ with you… I have yet to see ANY fully explained solve that has everything line up in such a short distance as reasonably as this.

        IMO, you are making a mountain out of a molehill… We will have to disagree. “Mary is hot.” What does it mean? Is she hot due to temperature, or is she mad, or is he great looking… To me, this is what Fenn has done with his clues. Water high…elevation, not deep, etc. He has said he wanted people to look for the treasure… If it was to be completely solved from a desk, then that advise would be ridiculous. He expects us to work on a solve, then to go to the general area and find it…

        Finally, as I have said, you need to understand “riddles”—double meanings or more… Good luck.

        • Again, I’m not knocking your work, but, and I say this with respect, can you see how you are not using the poem to get wwwh? Disregard the history lesson of the area. What, in solving the poem directed you to that spot. See what I’m saying. You are starting with your knowledge of the area and not the poem being used.
          Believe me, I know the double meanings and all. This is why I posted a ridiculous solve. I just picked a place that is close to what the poem is saying, and lining up a path, with some history. There is no Solving the poem.

          Look at this:
          Warm waters—The Ojo Caliente River (meaning Hot Eye in English)
          What in the poem told you to start here? What told you to use the meaning of “hot eye”? What told you, in the poem, to discount “warm” and use “hot”. Show me in solving the poem that gave this location.
          Do you see now? You just picked a place, nothing solved in the poem. An example, and I apologize if I’ve showed this before. And I don’t mean this as the solve to do, it is just an example.

          “Begin it where warm waters halt”.
          What I mean by solving the poem, is to find your way of deciphering the poem. With this line, you have Begin, then you have “it” and the letter “w” here. So it starts off saying, Begin wit.

          There are different ways to break down the rest, but one way is:

          warm waters and then the letter “h” alt, or alternate. We then would have:

          Begin wit(h) warm water salt. Which could be Epsom. So the line reads, Begin with Epsom.

          This is focusing on the poem and following instructions within the poem to obtain a solve. If a searcher broke down the poem, showed how in solving the poem it started at the Ojo Caliente River, then I would say good job. It may be right or wrong, but it’s showing how solving the poem made you start where you started. There is no solving the poem with your solve, just places that you have picked because of coincidence.

          What f did with the poem is give directions to a spot. Gave points of reference, maybe some directions and distances, and said to solve for that spot and weed a path. The clues cannot be solved from a desk, at least not all, but the poem, that’s different. It can be solved, or there would be no reason for it.

          In your first paragraph, you said “You have to consider double meanings to every clue. Warm waters—The Ojo Caliente River”.
          Okay, how about an area that was at one time a geyser system, spewing hot water everywhere, but now is dormant. Warm waters halt, how is this wrong and the Ojo Caliente right?
          The thing is, river waters do not halt, in fact, water itself never really halts. Always moving. Even if warm waters meet cool waters, the warm waters do not halt. And we’ve said before, warm waters in Greenland are not the same as warm waters in the Pacific. So it’s not temp. In my example, it would fit a lot better then the river, because the warm waters have actually stopped, or halted.

          The thing is, neither way uses the poem to pick the starting point. Nothing is said about solving the poem to get a start place. What you have are coincidences to a story that you believe follow it to a tee. You have gotten away from the poem, and put a map in a more important role. The poem must be solved.

          There are hundreds of thousands of solves that follow this format, and don’t get me wrong, I started the same way, but we need to critique ourselves as to not leave any doubt that someone else can exploit. Without definitions, or history lessons, you need to show me how solving the poem got you to the Ojo C. If you can do that, then I could believe that you are into the poem, and solving it in the right way, and not just throwing darts.

          Again, I don’t mean to knock your thoughts, just trying to give a helpful view. If I’ve come off as negative towards you it is not meant and I apologize. I get what you are saying and understand, duck or duck, right, Quack or move, we have seen a bunch of these types of solves, and in a sense, we have all started off in this fashion, but the sooner that searchers realize this is just guessing, then the quicker they will get to actually finding a way to solve the poem, instead of just picking places and following a map that are coincidental to the poem read.

          I wish you luck, and I do know what it feels like to start all over again, it sucks, but it may be what needs to happen here.

          • Poisonivey,

            I think I AM using the poem to find where warm waters halt. Where the waters halt is simple determined by having all the clues fit that follow. That is how the poem works in my opinion. And by “fit”, I mean like a glove. Having said that, I think you still need to be on the site to find the chest. Fenn has encouraged people to get out and search for it. If it was all to be figured out right down to the exact location from a desk, there would be little reason for that.

            I am not new at looking at this. I first thought about this perhaps 3 1/2 years ago. I have not tried to use any history in my solve to speak of—simply the wording of his poem. Right or wrong, this was and continues to be my thinking…

            I think it is in NM. I think he hid it there and only later changed the possible locations for 2 reasons. To limit the search, but to also draw people away from NM.

            My first instinct dealt with the “Home of Brown”. I thought about trout… Thinking that was clever, I looked at rivers in NM with Brown trout. By coincidence, I hit upon the tributaries of the Ojo Caliente River which have Brown trout, but they do not live all the way downstream.

            I then tried to figure out some connection with the “warm waters” below where the Brown were. Not easy to do, but then it dawned on me that the warm waters DID halt in Lamadera NM, if you consider the named of the river being “warm”. From there, it was a matter of simply following the clues, one by one, to the general area of the “blaze”.

            I beg to differ with you about your thinking. It is NOT easy to line up clues that all fit, and by fit, I mean fit well. That is how I believe he did this. I believe you more or less have to stumble upon the starting point, but by using the clues as to making that point logical. I find Lamadera logical, but if I couldn’t find a canyon down, I would dismiss that thought. All the other clues needed to fall into order too, and I find it hard to believe that they randomly would.

            I know what you are saying, but I simply don’t believe he used your method. When he says the poem will lead you there, it doesn’t have to mean that he gave you the starting point in black and white. I think it means that with all the clues combined, the starting point will make sense—if you stumble upon it.

            I looked at other hot or warm waters in NM and nothing came of them. Since I “feel” it is in NM, I have stuck by that. This solve strings things together very well and all in a small area and in the right order.

            I told Mr. Fenn about my ideas and he had one simple remark. He asked me if I was always right? Yes, more double meanings. That is how I perceive the poem—hidden meanings, but as in riddles.

            And you are right about it being guessing to a large extent, but I don’t think things would line up so well by random chance, and when all the clues line up, I think that is what makes it more plausible and far less random. At that point it is not simply “guessing”, but based on exactly what the poem says.

            And I don’t think there is some hidden meaning in the way the poem is structured or made. Some code breaker would certainly have figured out something like that by now.

            Stubborn perhaps, but I simply can’t imagine a better solve. The potential private property issue is the one very nagging thing to me. Very hard to know if things are private or not—maybe Fenn has that twist included as well.

            Again, let me argue a point… From the start you go to a canyon down… There is a canyon down the road, not far, but too far to walk. This canyon is narrow and not much of a canyon. It had private property to the north, and private property to the south, but it is not fenced until you get near the river. Then there is a fence, but no signs on it, and a wide open purposely made opening in it. Why? Cattle roam on the other side, so maybe it (the fence) is to keep cattle off the road… Maybe not private at all… These are nagging questions, but it is odd to have that narrow corridor between definite private properties… Just coincidence? Just coincidence that a sheer wall of rock is there (no place for the meek). Just coincidence that there is a waterfall with water pouring over that sheer cliff (water high above a stream too small to need a paddle). Everything fits, and well.

            I could easily be wrong, but I would love to be proven wrong, not just thought wrong.

            Good luck with your angle too.

          • Okay John, I won’t argue a point if that is how you see the poem. I have a lot of concerns, but if that is how you see solving the poem, then that is how it is. I just posted examples of solving lines in the poem. The thing is, we don’t know what the clues are. We know 2 of them, but to say that the clues are being followed perfectly when we don’t know the clues, is a stretch. But like I said, if that is how you read the poem, then that is it. I wouldn’t want you to change anything, if that is how you see it, then that is how it will be seen. But there are concerns.

            Like why not the dormant geyser idea, all fits rather well also, if not better? Why couldn’t Purple Mountain in Yellowstone be hoB? You could fit clues after that. My point is that it must be in the poem to tell you. Just picking these places is not solving anything, but that is what I think. So I agree with you if you believe in your solve. I bring up questions only to hopefully let you critique yourself. If you still like your answers, you get no argument from me. We all must critique ourselves harder then anyone else, right? And with the long post, I can see you are passionate about what you have found. Any kind of solve, regarding this chase, is a lot of time and work. People outside the chase wouldn’t understand all the needed research hours alone. So really, any solve has a lot of work put into it. Right or wrong, we all have gained knowledge one way or another. Good luck to you John…

          • Poisonivey,

            I have to reply out of sync since the thread has ended, but just a couple things…

            It “could” be other places than where I think it might be. The possible private property aspect of it is my largest concern, although I still don’t know if it is…

            And again, NM has just made sense to me. I believe he limited the search range to keep people from looking in Delaware or Finland, but also to broaden it to the Rockies and get people away from NM. I see no reason to think otherwise.

            It could be in Yellowstone, but beyond my gut feeling about NM, there is the possible “paper trail” if he traveled that far.

            And finally, things can line up in other places if you just go by the riddles in the poem, but I still doubt they can do so as well in such a short distance as to allow him to be unseen and make two quick trips in to hide the chest.

            Many people venture to a spot, find out it doesn’t fit, and toss the idea aside. I would do the same thing if I felt this spot was eliminated in my mind, but it isn’t. There are still nagging things about it.

            I still think the “solve” is entirely involved with the riddle aspect of the poem. From “warm waters halting” to the “blaze” virtually every line has multiple meanings. To me, that is the puzzle.

            Good luck. I’d like to see where it actually is.

          • John, as far as the “private property” thing goes, I would highly advise on not thinking it is on private property. Just the fact of how searchers have trespassed onto his land would give f cause to caution. He would be able to easily foresee something like that, and wouldn’t put another in such a daunting position. Now land managed by the Bureau of Land Management, yes. Federal lands, yes. Remember, his belief is that we, the people, own the government. (don’t quote me on those exact words, I think you get the gist).
            Yellowstone, like you say, is a paper trail. I agree, probably not there. Plus, the traffic, runs the risk of being seen at any time. Since he just said to pack it in until Winter is over, his thinking, tells me that the spot may have snow on it now. Doesn’t really narrow things down, but gives the suggestion that Winter comes early to the spot. And, if your effort is worth the cold, and he says to search in the Summer, then not to far of a stretch to think mountain, elevation, and North.(the last part of that people in the lower states might not like). Get’s cold there too, so not throwing it out. What do I know anyway, I’m at work in So.Cal. with the air conditioning on.
            I do believe that wherever he hid the chest, he didn’t make it too difficult for himself. That’s not to say that it isn’t, I’m not going to underestimate the guy, but he’s not going to risk health to do this. Not unless he planned to. He may have planned to die with the chest, but when hiding, he had every intention of returning home. I believe it will be a long, peaceful walk/hike to the chest.

  16. When I started thinking about what the blaze might be, I was originally thinking along the straightforward idea of the traditional mark on a tree like the ones described in the journals of Lewis & Clark and Osborne Russell. I still haven’t ruled this idea out completely, but I have been noticing that relying on a tree as a permanent marker is a roll of the dice due to how easily a tree can suddenly be destroyed by flood, wind, lightning strike, bark-beetles, etc.

    A new idea that I had in the course of this past summer: What if the blaze is a mark that mimics the look of a traditional tree-blaze, but is on stone? So a smooth rock face or formation with an obvious gouge in its surface that looks like a blaze. I’ve found a couple of instances of this in my BOTG searches this past year, though no treasure for me. Just another thought I wanted to share to add to the heaping pile of ideas of what form the blaze may take.

    • “The blaze is a physical thing. It’s not metaphorical……I mean, it doesn’t take a scientist to figure out that the blaze is something you can look at.”
      ” I mean, I could give you a thousand different scenarios there. And all of them came to me in-by email. Everybody finds a different one. The fact is, the important one is out there.”

      Fenn has mentioned a few examples of blazes and I doubt any of those are THE blaze. He also has spoken at great lengths over the years that looking for a blaze before finding the correct first clue(starting place) is a total waste of time. If that info is taken at face value, it seems to suggest that the successful searcher may be able to wisely surmise what/where the blaze is after working through the clues to that point. Fenn has said it will be obvious at that juncture.

      • I can’t disagree with everything you said, Ken. There’s really no reason to even think about the blaze at all if we follow the rest of the clues correctly.

        But we gotta do something to pass the time! 😉

        • Blex… pass the time ! Good one… I think about the blaze every day. That’s what we are all looking for, right? Just have to get there starting with wwwh.

          • There’s one possibility that hasn’t been mentioned here…

            I like that ken gave a f few quotes about the blaze. I’ll pick some of them out- The fact is, the important one (referring to the blaze) is out there.”

            My comment to that is i’d lean towards the important one being out there ‘in the poem somewhere’.

            Next one- He also has spoken at great lengths over the years that looking for a blaze before finding the correct first clue(starting place) is a total waste of time. If that info is taken at face value, it seems to suggest that the successful searcher may be able to wisely surmise what/where the blaze is after working through the clues to that point. Fenn has said it will be obvious at that juncture.

            You surmised “after” working through the clues. I believe “before” working through the clues will be possible if one is thinks the right things.

            As in, one could figure out the correct starting place before looking to figure out the blaze. But, the answer to the hidden riddle for finding the correct starting place is also the answer to the correct blaze.

            This hidden answer would be found in the first stanza, imo.

            I can explain further if confusing.

          • Fun…right. My wording was jumbled…but that is essentially my point to an extent. No starting point…. no blaze.

          • Ken,
            I never think about the blaze. I feel certain that knowing WWWH & HOB will tell us what and where the blaze is. If you find the first two clues and you dont understand why they are the first two clues, you will never solve the poem IMO

  17. IMHO
    The blaze is natural, not man made, but may only be visible during a certain time or times during the day. I definitely think it will only function as a blaze as long as it is seen at the location and in the direction intended. For example, walking from SE to NW it is either invisible or non-descriptive, walking from ESE to WNW it presents itself as a blaze. The tolerances could be wide but I believe them to be narrow.

    • Sacro –

      May I provide a quote that you may not be familiar with?

      Mr. Fenn,

      Which direction does the Blaze face? North, South, East or West? Curious. Foxy

      I didn’t take a radial off of the blaze Foxy. I’m thinking it may not be any of those directions. f

    • Actually Sacro, that may be correct. As long as you are not facing North, South, East, or West, like Lug has posted. Especially how line 17 may be solved to read Southwest. Coming from the North and into where the blaze would be, you might not be able to see the blaze. But coming from the Northeast heading Southwest, like you have stated somewhat, could be how the blaze is solved.

      Some will say since f didn’t take a radial that he probably means all directions, but this would be false. F knows exactly what he is saying, and not saying, to provide hints. For me, the blaze is facing Northeast, seen when you come upon it from the Northeast heading Southwest.

      Think of a map with the N,S,E,W making a “+” . Walking where the N would be in the NW position, makes it an “x”. Combined, you get +x, or Texas. Lol, means nothing, just thinkin’…

  18. thats a common brain twister answer. when im in the circle i chase my ranch around in every direction and have fun doing it i found a ball of barb wire reminded me of Fenns ball of string all that and camels to boot had a awesome trip in nm last week

  19. JDA,
    I dont see a comment button below your comment to poison ivy regarding whether HOB is too vague. So now this comment is out of order. But, I was reading the way you walked PI through the clues. Are you sure HOB is in the canyon down? You seem very sure of your WWH. Is it possible that you have not reversed the message about HOB? Do you think irs possible that WWH is below the HOB? I think it is possible. WWH could be in the canyon down put (placed) below the HOB. Just a thought for you.

    • Hi Flutterby;

      No, I believe I am correct.

      “Begin it where wwwh” So, I am standing at the wwwh spot.
      “And take it in the canyon down,” – This tells ME to go down the canyon, starting from the wwwh spot – So, now I am heading south, or lower in elevation.
      “Not far, but too far to walk.” – I go down the canyon “Some” distance.
      “Put in BELOW the hoB.” – This tells me that once I have gone down the canyon a particular distance, I will see hoB. Go a bit past that point, and then get out of the canyon – or “Put in”. I know “Put in” can have two definitions to “Get in the water” or “Get out of the water” – Getting out fits my interpretation. Just how I see the poem -Thanks for askin’ – JDA

      • Just to note JDA your definition of “put in” isn’t all inclusive as I put in my 2 cents. The definition I like is to “enter something.” I entered my 2 cents, someone enters the land from the water, you enter the harbor (you don’t even have to leave the water), or even as simple as my Bear Trap Canyon solve where I put in at the parking area of a trail.

    • Then you would be able to solve for the blaze before wwwh. You could solve for a later clue before a previous clue. Don’t believe that it is seen from above.
      There may be small hints with the landscape from his pics, but flying in a plane to see a clue sounds unlikely as it would then be able to be seen before a previous clue. This would not fit, sorry…

      • Did you consider that I may have solved the previous clues and came to my blaze and was able to see it from above as in GE?
        Or maybe the blaze is part of the pictures in the book and I can see it if I stand over the book and look down. …above does not mean by airplane..just saying. ..IMO of course

        • Well, the blaze is outside so I just figured you would be in the air to see. You didn’t say you were using pics in the book. Solving the previous clues to come to your blaze still does not effect that you can see the blaze from above using GE if you didn’t solve the previous clues. If you came from the North, solved clues to get to your blaze, and I came from the South, without solving, we still would both see what you are talking about from GE.
          If you are looking down on the book, and see a blaze, how would that pan out in the field. How would it be a clue?

          I get what you are saying Eagle, just don’t think that the blaze would be so obvious. Or shortcuts would be used, IMO.

  20. Hey all! I’m posting my 2nd post here, so be nice. Every single one of you are experts in my eyes since I’ve found Dal’s blog.

    I have a question about “the Blaze”. In Fenn’s poem, he states
    “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
    Look quickly down, your quest to cease,
    But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
    Just take the chest and go in peace.”

    I have some land survey experience and I might be confusing myself from my background. I didn’t get through all the above
    postings, but those that I did read seem to be using “blaze” interchangeably with a “landmark”.
    When I think of early pioneers (and land surveyors), the trails were “blazed” with notches in trees or stacking rock formations, etc. It never occurred to me that it could be a mountain side or a landmark in the geography of the terrain.

    To me, a landmark could be seen for miles around, or just several hundred feet. There would be many places to stand in view of a landmark. I’m thinking that as Fenn found the location he was happy with, that he would make the “blaze” on something reachable…a tree, a fence, and boulder…..something very close to the treasure and something he did himself.

    How else could you see the blaze and look down and find the box? He didn’t say “Look for the smiley face on the cliff from 100 chains and you will see the treasure directly below it.”

    I have a feeling someone in this marvelous group may have already addressed this. If so, let me know and I’ll scratch that off my list. Not that I’ll be going to explore in person any time soon. I’m just fascinated and want to be a part of someone finding it!

    My second question is….well, I don’t know where to post it. If Fenn was facing his last days, he already stated in the poem that he was tired and weak. I keep asking myself, if I had diminishing strength and was very ill…..how far would I drive to accomplish this mission? He said none of his family knows…so he apparently went alone. That’s a pretty hard question to answer….but it seems to be a logical question to ask.

    On one of the posts, one of you emphasized “imagination”, and I agree 100%. In my limited knowledge of all of this right now, it seems that “imagination and logic” would be a more finite approach……or maybe not! lol.

    OK….I’m ready to hear some thoughts. Nice to join all of you great people!

    Suzanne

    • Suzanne,
      There are as many suggestions for the blaze as there are searchers. In my opinion, the blaze is the same thing as home of Brown. That is why, by the time the blaze is mentioned, “you’ve been wise and found the blaze”. The poem has already told you what it is. This is just my opinion, but I do know a couple of people who agree.

      I dont believe that FF is referring to himself as tired and week. We have rehashed “I” for years. Some believe “I” is FF, himself. I think there may be more people that believe “I” is something else. Im of the opinion that I is something else. The word “tired” can mean done over and over and over. I think this poem is about a natural process (in nature) that is done over and over until “I” has become weak.

      All this is just my opinion but I stand firmly behind it. Welcome to our group.

  21. JDA, You say, “I have mentioned this before, but a “Wise old owl” will seek the highest perch possible to view its prey.
    Could this be a hint? JDA”

    Virtually anything can be a hint, but it is putting them together that is the problem. “Jane is hot.” What meaning comes to mind? Is she hot because of the temperature? Is she hot because of how great she looks? Is she hot because she is mad? Personally, I think Fenn has done exactly that with his riddle—many meanings, but all REASONABLE. It is a riddle, not a cryptogram, or an anagram, or some page in the Bible. For example, he says to find the treasure you don’t have to move any large rocks…but how about “small” ones? Is that a hint that it could be under small stones? I think the hidden meanings are right in front of our faces, not something you need a calculator to figure out.

    • That, I agree with. Everything that f has spoken chase related always seems to have a double or triple meaning. (maybe not everything, but you get the gist). If he didn’t tell us the punch line to Eric Sloane’s housekeepers comment, we would be arguing that he meant women that kept houses, or cleaned them. Do we follow the clues precisely or is he saying follow the poem precisely? What is meant by “nailed down”? Not moving large boulders mean small ones, or maybe the area does have large boulders that cannot be moved?
      We have to be flexible to his words, and understand the many ways of deciphering what he is saying. F saying good morning would probably make all searchers wonder what he means. I’m sure he gets a good laugh about it.

  22. Hi all ,mr Fenn did say something about the Rosetta Stone and I think you have to unlock the poem and marry it to the map and I have solved to the Blaze and I have been there.there are keys to poem,stores and map.

  23. Let’s review something. How important is the Blaze to the solve actually? Did Fenn say you could find the TC without the Blaze? Is the TC truly below the Blaze or is it a play on words? I wonder if someone can find the TC while NOT using the blaze as a marker….even if they find the Blaze. In other words, how important is the Blaze in the solve? Maybe it’s useful but not needed.

    • Tony;

      In my opinion, the answer is yes.

      How important is the Blaze to the solve actually? Absolutely esscential IMO.

      Did Fenn say you could find the TC without the Blaze? Not that I am aware of.

      Is the TC truly below the Blaze or is it a play on words? Since no one has yet found Indulgence, no one can truthfully say yes or no. I would say yes though.

      I wonder if someone can find the TC while NOT using the blaze as a marker….even if they find the Blaze. In other words, how important is the Blaze in the solve? Again absolutely essential. No blaze, no treasure. JMO.

      Maybe it’s useful but not needed. – I disagree. JMO

      Why do you want to discount it? Just askin’ – JDA

      • For me, it is like a road sign. Forrest has said that the poem is a map. If you are going somewhere, and you need to take an off ramp to get there, what happens if you are distracted and miss the sign? Simple, you missed getting to where you want to go. Same here, miss the blaze, you will not get to where you want to go. JMO – JDA

        • Hi JDA,

          You will not believe this…and that’s okay. I’m at the correct location….just not specific location. I have the Blaze….but I have been discounting it…since nothing was found initially. I will go back to it this SAT-SUN and take a closer look below it now. I was using it as a marker to line it up with the ‘wise’ location….and hopefully draw a line to the TC. That failed. Many other ideas failed….BUT I have not looked directly below the Blaze enough. Now I tend to agree with you. The Blaze plays a larger role than I thought and I will do what the poem says and look quickly down below it (again)…but in areas I missed. We shall see. The season is nearly over….but I’ve got two more trips in me. I hope it only takes this one. Thanks for your input JDA! – Tony

          • Mr. Fenn: How far is the chest located from the blaze? ~ casey

            Casey, I did not take the measurement, but logic tells me that if you don’t know where the blaze is it really doesn’t matter. If you can find the blaze though, the answer to your question will be obvious. Does that help?f

          • Tony, you seem quite confident regarding the blaze.
            How far (as the crow flies) is the blaze from where you started BOTG hiking, looking for it?

            I ask in order to learn whether “your” blaze is the one that is “my” blaze.

            Good luck in your search. Please stay safe.

          • Seeker…..Awesome! Thank you for that. Good things coming folks. Just not sure when. Hopefully this SAT!

          • Tony,
            Another Q&A you might want to consider…

            Q~ Can the blaze be pre-determined by the poem or can it only be determined at the search area?- becky

            A~ Becky, you are a rascal to ask that question and I have been sitting here for about fifteen minutes trying to decide what to say. Well, it has been thirty minutes now and I think I’ll pass on the question. Sorry.f

            Using both Q&A’s I think the “predetermined” is the stumper. I lean toward the idea that the poem “lead” to the blaze, yet we may not know what the blaze is until we’re on site. Another words… we ‘can’ predetermine where the blaze should be at, prior, but not what it is.

            Another word for ‘determined’ is discover. IMO Wise and Found means discover… which means; become aware of (a fact or situation).
            So again, we might know where the blaze is at, prior, but the preciseness of following the clues ‘gives up’ what the blaze is.

            Might I ask how long you have been involved with the challenge?

          • Seeker….only since April 20th…when I saw the press release about it…and I took the whole month of June off. Prior to this date, I never new about it. Can you believe that? Fresh eyes!!! I am at the correct location and have been for months. I was thrown off by what happens after the ‘wise’ comment. Now I will give the Blaze the attention that it deserves…although the season is about to end. No doubts on location….just haven’t found it. The poem is correct though. Not a wishful fit….a correct fit. Hopefully, good news to follow. Thank you for your comments!

          • I haven’t seen a lot of folks using ‘wise’ in their solve… I wonder if we’re in the same location. Mind if I ask what state your solve is in?

          • I don’t see a lot of people with ‘wise’ as a location in their solves. I wonder if we are in the same area… Mind if I ask what state your solve is in?

          • geo1….thank you for asking. I cannot tell what state….not to be coy, but because Fenn never said what state. I plan on leaving a piece of the treasure in the same spot and ask Fenn if we can keep it going (after announcing I found it of course). I want to see what he thinks about that idea. I am curious as to how long it takes #3 to find it. So I cannot give out more clues than what Fenn already gave out. There is no doubt…I’m at the correct general location. I hope I can find the specific location soon. The whole poem is now solved…except the very end. We’ll see!!

          • Tony;

            I wish you the best, but do you know how many times I have heard this same tale during the past 33 months? More than I can count – Just sayin’ – JDA

          • I understand JDA!! But…I’ll add something else you’ve heard many times before also….”this time it’s different. This is the real deal”. HAHAHA! I’ve failed too many times at this correct solve to be cocky. I readily admit I may not get it this season….but I hope to on SAT. If I don’t get it this season…I’ll be back in April, since it’s the correct solve. I disagree with Fenn’s comment that “the one who knows will walk with confidence and nothing about it will be an accident.” I’m not the first to be at the correct solve….but hope to be the last.

          • Tony,

            I don’t mean this in a bad way… but it seems we always hear the ‘correct’ anything just before winter creeps in, and all winter long.
            I say that because, one comment fenn made about; “probably” retrieve the chest in any weather, and your comment you know the blaze… by any stretch of the imagination that should be 8 if not 9 clues solved/deciphered… right? Much better than 3/4 of the poem’s clues anyways… if not all of it.

            Can you explain why you might not be able to go and obtain a mil plus in gold and trinkets if you know the blaze?
            Is it time spent on cold weather to get to the blaze? [ What time span are you thinking all this should take?]
            Is it impassable to even get to the clue’s location?
            How far are your clue’s points separated and/or the difficulty of the route, from a parked vehicle to the blaze ? [regardless of how many clues there might be].

            I’m not saying drop everything and go… I’m attempting to see or understand why; cross country skiers, hunters [some hiking a mile or two or more to get to their game location], and other winter activities [ folks out all day long ] is perfectly reasonable… yet not being able to get to the blaze that an 79 -80 yr old [ or even older, I think he stated one time at 84 or older he could still go to the chest ] could in summer weather.

            Just a curious inquiry…

          • Seeker…I totally understand your skepticism. I cannot answer any specifics more than FENN has because of the reasons I stated earlier. So looking at your questions, ask yourself, would Fenn answer these? Most are hints or clues. I will tell you that Fenn is correct….that if the person knows the exact location….they can retrieve it in any weather. I’d rather find it now though….because I don’t know the exact location! I have an idea where the exact location is…and that will be Target#1 on SAT. I would not want to try to visually look for it…if it’s covered in snow. Snow is problematic. Let’s hope it doesn’t come down to that and I just pull it out on SAT!! I understand your’s and JDA’s doubts. I wouldn’t believe me either…HAHA! Just read everything I wrote on this thread and the thread to the outside of this one…and ask yourself…is what I’m writing sound reasonable? The way I see it…there are 3 phases to the FENN TC solve: 1) Ppl have no idea where it is (where most ppl are at); 2) Ppl have found the general area and the correct poem location…..that’s where I am…and apparently several before me…and they gave up; 3) The exact TC location….where I finally hope to be on SAT-SUN. Since I am at #2….then there is no doubt. When some of the clues are solved only with BOTG…then there is no doubt. That’s all. I have pulled my pants down enough on this blog. I think I better reign it in….or I may have hell to pay from FENN. This is therapeutic for me right now…since I’m just counting the hours until I can go there. I have work tomorrow. Listen to your little voice inside and ask yourself….could I be for real? Usually the little voice knows. I’m sorry to all of you for rambling on. Let’s put it this way….I’m just another schmuck unless I pull the TC out. I’m really doing these blog posts for public record….because if I pull it out on SAT-SUN….then I will have to go radio silent for 30 days apparently. I will not be able to answer these blog posts. If you hear the TC is found either SAT-SUN via a Fenn press release….then I’ll bet you dollars to donuts it was me. **smiles**

          • Tony,
            You can’t answer these?

            ~What time span are you thinking all this should take?
            ~How far are your clue’s points separated and/or the difficulty of the route, from a parked vehicle to the blaze ? [regardless of how many clues there might be].

            It’s not about being skeptic or not… I mean if you have all the 9 clues proper, including the blaze… once there, shouldn’t the chest become obvious to it’s hide?
            That’s what fenn implied; If you can find the blaze the distance to the chest would be obvious.
            Do you think that Q&A answer was only meant for the sunshine days of summer?

            That’s a legit question… some folks… ok, only me, think this only unfolds in summer…

          • Seeker….here it goes….the best that I can do without going past Fenn’s limits:
            ~What time span are you thinking all this should take?
            ANS: 3-4 trips for geniuses and very few mistakes; 5-8 for smart ppl; 9-12 for smart ppl who made mistakes; 13-19 for average ppl who make mistakes; Let’s call each trip 1 full day;

            ~How far are your clue’s points separated and/or the difficulty of the route, from a parked vehicle to the blaze ? [regardless of how many clues there might be].
            ANS: Too much information here. Fenn wouldn’t say.
            Fenn said…no more than a few miles….so round trip…3. I’m not confirming 3. Just saying no more than ‘a few’….giving his answer. I can confirm that the clues are not evenly spaced apart. There is nothing ‘even’ about them. The distance would be too much information.

            It’s not about being skeptic or not… I mean if you have all the 9 clues proper, including the blaze… once there, shouldn’t the chest become obvious to it’s hide?
            ANS: Not exactly. Within reason…yes…if you are going in the right direction the whole way.

            That’s what fenn implied; If you can find the blaze the distance to the chest would be obvious.
            ANS: I saw that quote. It’s not obvious. LOL. He doesn’t really know….because he’s not on the receiving side of it.

            Do you think that Q&A answer was only meant for the sunshine days of summer?
            ANS: Nope. It’s for all days! Of course with snow on the ground, it’s more dangerous…so he doesn’t want ppl on the ground when there is snow there…even though he said if you know ‘exactly’ where the TC is…you can go to it. That’s what I plan on doing on SAT! If I don’t find it…I’ll stay to SUN and search other targets. This ‘should’ be it though…..knock on wood. Whatever…let’s just see! I’ve been let down so many times…now I just go expect to be let down. That way the emotional fall is not too far! Still….this end of the poem looks very promising.

          • Tony~ ‘Seeker….where did I say I solved it?”

            ~If I don’t get it this season…I’ll be back in April, *** since it’s the correct solve***

            ~I backed into the correct clue answers all along the way! ***All 9 clues!;***

            ~ *** I have all 9 clues solved.*** I will tell you, even with all 9 clues solved…it will not bring you to the “exact” location.

            Tony, that is only from a ‘few post’ you have on this long ladder chatter… Do I need to go on?

            LOL, the last one [or yours] I posted is kinda funny, seeing fenn says the clues [ 9 contained in the poem ] will lead you to the chest.
            There’s always an excuse, and most of the time it basically say fenn is not telling the truth in one form or another. So we’re supposed to take you serious, and fenn’s clues will “not” bring us to the chest exactly – precisely???

            Ya might want to listen to some of the things others are attempting to explain.. not that they are correct or know anything… but they are attempting to give you some insight that many many before you thought they got this thing nailed down… but screw up royally because of your comment above. IF this poem’s clues can not do what fenn claims… why are you even bothering to try?

            End of commentary…

        • I meant above…i didn’t search in June…I was too busy with some things going on in CA and another reason that I will share if I find it. Although I was at the correct location at this time…I didn’t put the poem to it correctly yet. I have put it correctly since August…but was thrown off from the ‘wise’ location. Now the Blaze will get more attention this SAT-SUN.

          • Goto love the confidence Tony.
            Your comments have been echoed here throughout the years. Blaze away….

          • Jake…some of those echoed comments in here may have been correct also. I’m not the first to be at the correct solve of course. I hope to be the last. Luckily, those who failed, didn’t spill the beans…probably hoping to return later. We’ll see.

          • Tony: two questions to assess your viability. When did you first learn of the Chase, and do you own all three memoirs?

          • Zap….April 18,2018…CNBC press release. I do not own any of his books….nor want to until after I find it. Do not discount that I was lucky in the beginning and stumbled on it. Even Fenn said…it may take a fresh eyes to solve it….someone new. I even took the entire month of June off. I know…it sounds preposterous…and IT IS!! The books are not needed to find it…as he said. The place is special…for sure.

          • Tony: I don’t mean to throw a wet blanket on your enthusiasm, but it is unlikely in the extreme that you’ve figured out WWWH in such a minute amount of time, let alone all the clues that follow.

            Consider for a moment that some have been at this for almost 9 years, and that even after a couple parties solved the first two clues, no further progress beyond those 2 was made for over 5 years.

            Perhaps 400,000 people have preceded you, and most have far more time on the books than you. You aren’t going to just get “lucky” and guess WWWH. There is no guessing involved.

            But supposing for fun that you have a 180 IQ and you’ve actually solved the starting point in mere months, can you offer an explanation for why the other 2-clue solvers took so long to solve the 3rd clue: assuming that they even did (which Forrest was uncertain about)? IMO, if your third clue is easy or obvious, then all the evidence says it’s wrong.

          • Zap…First of all…I’m honored! WOW! I realize the gravity of this thing. If I didn’t take June off from the search…I may have had it a month ago. I wish I didn’t take the time off now. I will answer your question three ways: 1) As Fenn said, people over think it. I think I was successful is because I kept it simple. Fenn said “Don’t overcook my poem”; 2) Luck – Found the location by luck…I cannot tell how. I will also admit something I probably shouldn’t. I had all 9 clues wrong…and still had the correct location! I was there from false clues. I backed into the correct clue answers all along the way! All 9 clues!; 3) To directly answer your question…when you are at the correct location…Clue#3, #4, #5,…etc etc….will all fall into place. So the answer there is…BOTG is required. Granted, I didn’t pull out the chest yet. I think I know what I did wrong all these months. I have all 9 clues solved. I will tell you, even with all 9 clues solved…it will not bring you to the “exact” location. With the 8th-9th clue…you know what to look for. That’s all I should say here…about specifics. If FENN is reading this…he’ll kick my ass….since I plan on leaving a piece of the TC contents at the same location. I’ll ask him later if that was a good idea. He may say no…then I’ll have to go back and pull it out. SAT or SUN is my goal!! I have a good idea where to look now. By trade, i have 20yrs software tech support experience…so all I’ve done for 20yrs is solve easy to difficult problems. I use the same methodology to the FENN Treasure. Maybe that’s the reason for my success….and LUCK! Never discount luck!

          • Tony: with all respect… the distance you walk tells me you‘re not at my search area and that makes me keep cool and sleep tight… 🙂

            Zap-the-walking-ATF-dictionary: what was Fenn telling about those who lnow? They‘re whispering? Something like that…

            My confidence in my first solve (08/2017) was just as high as yours… I am glad I did not produce my how-to-videos with a Darth Vader Mask and a huge rabbit on my lap before my first trip… lol! That‘s why I‘m still here…

            Now how about you… will you be here on monday and eat Ken‘s famous Crow Masala and JDA‘s humble pie?

            We will not be mad at you but it would be a fine move to show up and admit that you (maybe) erred… looking forward to both possibilities: you made it (0.0001%) or you didn‘t (99.9999%) like all of us by the way… 🙂
            Stay safe and good luck!
            T

          • Tlo….Let’s make something clear. I’m not saying I will ‘for sure’ pull it out SAT-SUN. So there will be no crow to eat on Monday. I am saying that I will try. I have a very good idea. I readily admit, I may come up empty….and have maybe one more chance before the season ends. So I will not be eating crow on Monday either way. I am stating that I am at the correct solve location. The end of it is rather difficult until what I see now. Now it looks easy. We’ll see. You know when you lose your car keys and looking all over the house…and once you check every single room…you find them in the garage or whatever? That’s my situation here. I don’t want to admit how many times I have been there…but it’s A LOT! If I didn’t go…I would not have had the breakthroughs that I have had….and that’s why I’m at the very end now. BOTG is required to solve the poem’s clues and get to the TC location. Tlo…guess what happens if I come up empty this weekend? ANS: I will take what I learned and go back again. If that fails, then I will go back in late April. Why? I already told you why above. : )

          • Well said, Tony!

            I agree that the last search area is severely hard to decipher… being at the right spot and finding Indulgence is two different things!

            Good luck to you, Sir!!!

          • PS: when my wife was pregnant and a little confused (shall I say queer?) she left my car keys in the lower drawer of our fridge!

            Now that was a chase… 🙂

            One week later She left them in the baby bathtub…

            I know what you mean lol

          • TLo….it sounds like you have the wisdom to find it also. I only learned how to be wise with all the failed trips to the same location. My mind is night and day from where I was in late April this year (my first visit). I was a naive foolish greenie then. Thank you for your best wishes. I will wish the same for you! If there is a press release this weekend…then you know what happened. The finder is supposed to go radio silent for 30 days. Good luck going forward also.

          • Zap

            If I’ve learned one thing from everyone’s posts, it would be the importance of hubris.

          • Hi Tony: from what you’ve posted, I can tell you a few things:

            1. You don’t have WWWH.
            2. You may not even be searching the correct state. I am amused when people are reluctant to reveal their search state — there are only four in play, and there are searchers in each of them, so it’s hardly giving away the farm.
            3. “I think I was successful is because I kept it simple. Fenn said “Don’t overcook my poem”” : Anything obvious has been tried 1000 times. Rio Grande, Ojo Caliente, Boiling River, Brown’s Canyon, Firehole Canyon, etc. (Please tell me it’s not one of these.) Therefore, the correct answer is evidently NOT obvious.

            4. “Luck – Found the location by luck…I cannot tell how.” No, I’m sorry, you didn’t. There is no luck in play. That’s akin to “happening upon” the treasure chest, and you are describing Forrest’s “Sunday picnic” or “Spring Break” scenario. It is a logic puzzle to be solved. Correctly guessing WWWH is as likely as picking the correct blaze without solving the preceding clues.

            5. This should probably be #1, based on importance. “When you are at the correct location…Clue#3, #4, #5,…etc etc….will all fall into place.” This is why I know you have the wrong WWWH. You ignored my rather important question: if clues 3, 4, 5 and beyond are so obvious once you have the right starting location, please explain how the people that solved the first two clues — over 5 years ago — were unable to make further progress?

            You have already given yourself an out by admitting that you may not find it this weekend. That being the case, by Forrest’s own definition you do not have a “correct solve,” because otherwise you could KNOWINGLY walk to within a few steps of the treasure chest’s location.

            I do look forward to your report after the weekend is over, but please forgive those of us who have been around the block a few times for saying so: your story is an old one.

          • Tony Driver….don’t pay any attention. You just go on out there and have a grand ole time… that is what it is supposed to be about. So far the score is; Searchers O and Fenn 350K or so. Nobody here knows much except where the treasure isn’t. Oh… and be cautious.

          • Ken…message received. Thank you! A thanks in advance to any other positive comments.

          • Tony: Ken’s right — it’s the thrill of the chase! Sorry to take a dump in your cornflakes. Have a good time! Even if you’re unsuccessful, you’ll have all fall, winter and early spring to make adjustments. I would still recommend at least buying TTOTC — you are unnecessarily hurting your chances without that resource.

          • Tony

            I like the way this is working out.

            Do you see that my quote about Hubris has appeared just above Zap explaining why you are wrong?

            That is a quote from Zap’s very first comment to Dal on this site.

          • Soooo… Mister Tony Driver… how was your search?

            You made me -and I am sure quite a few others as well- curious! Are you counting coins and weighing nuggets?

          • Tony, tony, tony.
            Please come here and tell us why Forrest hasn’t said the treasure has been found.

            Blazing out!

          • Yo TLo…. I went….I saw….I came back with nothing. The end of the poem is problematic. Although i have been at the correct location for months….the “Look Quickly Down” is not really “look quickly down”. Anyone in this blog who thinks Fenn is going to just give the chest away with a direct easy clue….they need to get off the crack pipe. The end is HARD….the hardest thing about the poem….and that would make sense….since it’s where the TC is. The end has a twist. I will be going back very soon this weekend or next. No further updates fro me. Nobody else appears to be with me out at this site….all summer long. Good luck to all….but think outside the box with this poem…or you will not catch up to me. I’m one step away now. Rethinking the end….

          • Well Tony;

            Good to see you back. YUP – YUP, the poem is HARD. Not just the ending, but ALL of it is difficult, but not impossible. Better luck next outing – JDA

          • JDA…thank you. The rest of the poem is solved…including the Blaze…and also including what I will see at the TC location. Only this part remains. I heard that you are like me….going back to your solve area multiple times. We’ll I will go back to mine….since the poem is solved correctly. Maybe we’re at the same location…..BUT I have never seen another soul in my area. I hope it stays that way. Good luck to you going forward.

          • Heeeey, you‘re back!!!

            You made it home safe and healthy and -even better- you came back here to let us know… I have spent about 20 days net at the blaze and in surrounding area… then I found out the meaning of the next lines… all I can say… CHALLENGING!

            By the way… I come from Berlin, Germany… so even more challenging…

            We‘re not at the same spot though… but that‘s not important! We share the feelings!

            Heads up and good luck with your next trip(s)!!!

          • Thanks Tony;

            You say that no other searcher is in your area. That would give me pause. Forrest has said that people have been within 500′ and even 200′. He has also said that people have solved at least the first two clues. If you spent quite a bit of time in your area, I would have expected to find, or at least heard about, one searcher. I know I have ran across a couple in my area over the past trips out. Just something to think about.

            If you are searching in Wyoming, we MAY have crossed paths, but I doubt it. JDA

          • JDA…I just started in May 2018. The ppl 200ft Fenn said was a couple or more years ago. Nothing this year. The ppl 500ft are non-searchers….so it’s a dirt road or a higher traffic area….but not associated with my solve. I have the correct location beyond doubt because BOTG answered 3 of the clues in the middle of the poem. I walked right on it…Of course the earlier clues in the poem all there. Not a forced fit. Anyway…we’ll see. Appreciate your dedication to your spot though. I know the feeling. Good luck!

          • Tony Driver –

            I wold love to hear any portion of whatever you are taking about.

            You say you are in the right area. I will assume that like the other 100 searchers that are also in the right are you will not say where that is. Can you share anything about how you came upon this area?

            Anything??

            I would love to get excited, once….

          • Lugnutz….I came across the area by accident….and solved ALL the clues by accident with BOTG (multiple trips). I say “ALL” now because I “may have” just solved the end of it yesterday. I will do a one liner post on a main thread…Rest assured Lugnutz…I have the solve location. I didn’t fall off the turnip truck yesterday. I cannot believe nobody has found what I found in 8+ years.

          • Tony,
            When you say you “solved All the clues” you can see the skepticism from others… right? regardless if you say later; I may have one wrong.

            LOL I mean, if you have clue 3 or 5 wrong… what makes you think clue 4 or 6 7 8 are still correct?
            Even if you messed up clue 9… that’s not “solving all the clue”… and more to the point, how can someone possibly get that far with 1-8 correct clues and mess up clue 9-?- to the point you need more searches and time to figure it out…

            Honestly, all we’re hearing is what many have said before you… I have it solved, only, here are my excuses for not having the chest in my hand.

            Just out of curiosity, Is the a dam involve, a structure, is your location of the chest in water?
            Ya have given us much to chew on, except you have it solved… and you don’t want to spill the beans.
            Well, there’s a book shelve full of other searchers beans on Amazon about how to make a bean casserole… which are all bloated and long-winded.

          • Seeker….where did I say I solved it? If you mean my last post….I put something in quotes to make it simple for you and others. If you cannot understand words correctly, you won’t get to the TC. It’s that simple. Now to your other question:
            “LOL I mean, if you have clue 3 or 5 wrong… what makes you think clue 4 or 6 7 8 are still correct?”
            ANS: All falls into place with BOTG.

          • Seeker….I apologize for the slight above. Unfortunately, there is no way to edit or delete comments on this page. I will not be like some others in here. Take the best out of the last response that you want to…Good luck in your search!

          • I posted in the wrong reply. this is a re-post. for Tony.

            Tony you said; ~ ‘Seeker….where did I say I solved it?”

            ~If I don’t get it this season…I’ll be back in April, *** since it’s the correct solve***

            ~I backed into the correct clue answers all along the way! ***All 9 clues!;***

            ~ *** I have all 9 clues solved.*** I will tell you, even with all 9 clues solved…it will not bring you to the “exact” location.

            Tony, that is only from a ‘few post’ you have on this long ladder chatter… Do I need to go on?

            LOL, the last one [or yours] I posted is kinda funny, seeing fenn says the clues [ 9 contained in the poem ] will lead you to the chest.
            There’s always an excuse, and most of the time it basically say fenn is not telling the truth in one form or another. So we’re supposed to take you serious, and fenn’s clues will “not” bring us to the chest exactly – precisely???

            Ya might want to listen to some of the things others are attempting to explain.. not that they are correct or know anything… but they are attempting to give you some insight that many many before you thought they got this thing nailed down… but screw up royally because of your comment above. IF this poem’s clues can not do what fenn claims… why are you even bothering to try?

            End of commentary…

          • Hi Tony D –

            I’m ha;f surprised Zap isn’t picking up on this, but you are so much like him it’s crazy.

            When Zap first started commenting here he said he was the only one using his technique and seeing the connections he was. Goofy told him we weren’t seeing anything new. Since then Zap really doesn’t reveal much and that makes it impossible for anyone to judge the merit of his solve.

            Now comes Tony Driver saynig i can’t belive no one has seen this in 8 years! So I tell you what I told Zap back in 2016ish. Let me know what the heck you are talking about and I will point you to the previous discussions of your area and/or hint and/or idea….

          • Lugnutz….since I’m just biding my time until the weekend…I’ll answer you this way. Assume the person posting here has the correct solve (forget about me). Should they give away hints to it…before getting the TC? Not smart. I’m not ZAP. Please read all my posts and listen to your inner voice for just a second. We’ll know sooner or later. ; ) Keep in mind…I started the chase 5 months ago. It’s PREPOSTEROUS I tell ya!!

          • Tony Drivin

            As I have said I would love, absolute love, to get excited about someone’s ideas. So, you know share something.

            If you think it’s not wise to share here you might keep in mind all the millions of words that have been shared here and all for naught.

            If you want to email me and attempt to more coherently explain your ideas I would read them. If you are not crazy I would LOVE to read them.

            As TLo mentioned like yesterday, usually the first season searchers that think they have something new disappear into the gales of November…

            Wooooosh!

    • Agreed. As far as importance, only the last one. The question should be, is the blaze needed to solve clues afterwards? To the solve one clue to get to the next type of solvers, I would guess that it would be essential to find the blaze. To the people on the right track and reading the poem correctly, probably not a do or die thing. (lol, here it comes, lol)

      • Geez,

        Ya’ll take the fun out of winter… folks climb glaciers and snow cap mountains, cross country ski, hunt all day long and even camp for days in winter tracking their game… [ hunters in the tens of thousands every year, all over North America ].
        I’m not saying; go no matter what… but I’d bet the some of the winter enthusiast folks are giggling as well. Although, grant you, it’s not for everyone…

        • Seeker: to my way of thinking, snow and foul weather aren’t major deterrents to getting to the right spot. But if snow cover obscures a clue (that you can never see on Google Earth), that could be a problem. The challenge is hard enough without additional obstacles.

  24. In my opinion, MANY have seen the blaze but don’t recognize it in relation to the poem or clues. I have a theory to try out next search season.

    • Veronica, good luck with your theory. My theory is that not many people have
      seen the blaze.

      According to my theory, the blaze is not well-known, and is not indicated on any printed maps as a named, significant, or historical item. As always, IMO.

    • IMO, the blaze is a total facepalm. If you know of the chase, you will absolutely not mistake it. I don’t think a single searcher has seen the blaze because it is a dead giveaway.

      Flame me if you must 🙂

  25. This has been fun reading tonight.. Is Tony Driver suffering Rookie Fever, or does he have it? Do others think he is a fool, or are they secretly worried? I am also a Rookie, started the hunt just prior to Christmas 2017. I drove my son crazy for a while with all my “I know where it is!” Then, “Now I really know for sure” statements. And I really drove him nuts when at last I said, “Uh, I was in the wrong state. But now I know for sure.” And as an aside, I recently read Tarry Scant’s story about her/his first search in 2016 and the 10 Rookie mistakes made. Really could relate.

    I found my location in the Spring this year. I took 1 BOTG trip and failed to find the TC. Hundreds of miles after leaving I had that “aha!” moment. I had not solved all the clues and so I could not find the TC, but out on the open road far away from the location, something in the poem was suddenly simple and clear. And one more clue unlocked in my mind. Like a lot of folks here, I am certain I am in the correct location. Nothing is going to sway me except someone else actually finding the TC someplace else. But I also know I do not know where the chest is even now.

    I had considered making a trip before the weather changed. But I would just be going to the area and then poking around, like so many people do. I have ideas. Ideas about what to look for, what to do to find it, but these are still just ideas and not confirmed. What do I mean by confirmed? I mean that I am 100% certain of 6 of the 9 clues. I have some ideas/alternatives about 1 clue and I am fairly certain I understand 1 other clue. Maybe I solved one more clue and I am jut not calling it a clue, who knows, because 8 years after TTOTC was published people still don’t agree on what the clues are. I have my own methodology to confirm what a clue is based on my solve — which is why I can say 6 for sure, probably 7.

    What did FF say? Something like, It will be difficult but the person who finds it will move with confidence. I believe him. I believe he hid it so there would not be an accidental find by some yokel who had never even heard of the thrill of the chase. I believe it is so well hidden that even if you are working to solve the poem, just wandering around in the right area is not going to get you that chest.

    And I understand how a searcher could have solved the 1st 2 clues and then gone right past the others. That ATF comment totally works – you have to understand the geography, but also things like confirmation bias and search fever (you know, how your brain shuts down once you are BOTG and on the hunt.) What a lot of people miss about that, I think, is that these poor searchers have no idea it was them FF was talking about, or what solve it was where they blew right by the other 7 clues. They probably wrote that solve off years ago and are looking in another state. They missed the big picture and they just were not deep thinking.

    I think people for a long time misidentified what the clues were, I know I saw plenty of videos with people just counting off nine things in the poem and calling them clues. And I think that caused a lot of problems for the solvers because they were working off of wrong assumptions. I want to move confidently to the chest. Right now I can move confidently to a limited geographical area — and then look around and meditate on what I know. That leads to coming home empty handed.

    Does Tony know where it is? I don’t think so. The enthusiasm is just a wee bit too much like Rookie Fever that I suffered from last winter, I know the symptoms well. Tony, if you find it do us all a favor and post some photos – but I’m not holding my breath.

    Come spring I will return to my location. I hope by then I have more clues solved. I will go anyway, because there is knowledge to be gained in BOTG activity. And I like being physically present in my location. It’s gonna be a long winter!

    • Hunter….cool post! Yeah, let’s all just forget what I posted please. I didn’t realize inside threads are broadcast out to all who subscribe. Jiminy Christmas! We can chalk it up to rookie fever! I don’t know what I’m doing. The solve is all wrong. Nothing to see here….move along…move along. I’m done. I’ve said too much….and it’s probably all wrong anyway….of course….knowing the track record of rookies! : )

      • Aw Tony! You’re one of us now, and so it’s all good. I’m just saying . . . if you think no place for the meek is a steep cliff, someplace Joseph Meek did not go, or a landslide – then you’re wrong on your spot. It ain’t that easy. But enthusiasm – enthusiasm is wonderful.

        • You gotta think harder than that if you want to solve this thing Hunter…like “The MEEK shall inherit the earth”….but what does this rookie with 20yrs tech support experience know anyhow. If you don’t think out of the box, you’ll never get there buddy! The solve ain’t that easy! I do love your simplicity though. There is a time to be simple in the poem.

          Good luck folks!! ; )

      • Tony–I wish you well–Like those car keys,You shall find the Chest in the last place you look..Safe journy’s to you and yours..

          • Thunter and the other three nubes. It’s cool that you are hanging together and supporting ideas.

            How’s this for a theory.

            The Treasure will not be found before chasers have spent money equivalent to the value it’s very contents.

            How much have we spent? Million? Millions?

            How much are you putting in the jar?

            Lugnutz

          • Lug,
            My guess is that many times the value of the chest has been spent by searchers already. Most people have gotten their money’s worth in return through all of the intangibles you gain in the chase, and the ones who haven’t are going about it all wrong.

  26. The only positive to Tony D’s classic “I solved it, but I don’t have the chest yet” posting is that at least his time frame is short (i.e. this weekend). The “I’m definitely going to get it in 3 weeks and let me spout that every day for the next 3 weeks” people are the worst.

  27. Im a newbie researching off and on this year. Recently got sucked back in by clicking on a bookmark I had.

    So how do you reveal what you believe HOB and the Blaze is ?

    I mean if I did you would know exactly where that is.

    I haven’t seen anyone mention my location during my readings. I dont see me getting on a plane and going to look but my thoughts on HOB and the blaze seem to be spot on. Plus winter is coming and it could be rough travel there soon. I see so many solves that are just impossible for FF to get there with a 42 pound chest, mine would not be easy but defintely dooable

    • Hi Patriot. If you think your blaze and HOB might be the correct one…I wouldn’t share it. If you are just guessing and want feedback, then that’s up to you to share. Keep in mind Fenn said the TC is no more than “a few miles” from his car…round trip. So 1.5mi in and 1.5mi back. That’s worst case. In reality…it probably much closer. So if your area is farther than that, I wouldn’t attempt it if I were you. Not even in summer. Good luck!

  28. I am a Canadian and I can not join you in the quest, new to the story and when I read it I asked first who is brown in Forrest Finns story, and the computer sent me to a frank sandbar brown in montana, so choose him as he has gold history,I continued to ask more questions about brown in montana, and it takes me to a river that is the best fishing hold river in Montana ,this all makes more sense as he liked his fishing, this brown guy tells of this creek river in some of his writtings,an author,curious when I asked about this place it shows you can get close by vehicle..someone take up my trial of clues and make this your brown

  29. Well I had a nice screenshot of the area via google map with notations of my solve but evidently it cant be uploaded here

    White Rock Overlook. > Elevation 6365 ft.
    In Los Alamos County > LAOS ?
    Its 35 miles 47 minutes from FF home and its north
    There is a subdivision there called Pinion Trails> Pinyon Nuts ?
    Home Of Brown > Sewage treatment plant
    Blaze> White Rock
    Where warm waters halt> Water fall
    FF Mentioned when fielding questions from a 9 yr old girl. He said you’re dangerous and that kids could find it. > There is a sports facility at White Rock

    What yall think ? 🙂

    • I think a very similar idea has been “floated” here before. To my recollection, about 3 years ago? If I was your teacher, I would be wondering if you are plagiarizing. And if that is the case, I would be wondering why? Forrest has said that the treasure is at least 8.25 miles / 66,000 links north of Santa Fe. I draw the line (horizontally across my map) at Cuyamongue. White Rock is below the line. I won’t even go into “not near a structure”. Get out into the woods and good luck.

      • Plagiarizing ? Excuse me.

        I just started looking off and on from the comfort of my PC. I have yet to see anyone mention this area in any of my research.

        I came up with all of this in just a few days.

        So your mileage is as the crow flies ? Is that specified somewhere ?

        Im in Orlando and dont plan on any trips to Santa Fe anytime soon.

        You go find it and toss me a chunk of Gold

        Dont be so aggressive.

        • Sorry to come off as rude or aggressive, Patriot. My apologies. Truly, a very similar if not exact same solve has been discussed repeatedly, and many folks have searched this area thoroughly. I am trying to point you toward a basic understanding of the ground rules, as expressed by Forrest, thereby saving you a lot of time and $$. Believe me, I’ve spent both in excess.

          • No worries. Interesting but not surprising this area has already been deciphered from the poem. Remember FF said searchers have been very close to it already. I think the location fits the clues to a T. It would have been pretty easy for him to get there too and go unnoticed. I’m just a newbie on the sidelines but I think some folks are way over thinking the clues.

          • Pretty sure the last searcher to spell out this area in detail was Michael D. His explanation was in great detail from the falls below one of the ball fields near the treatment plant … Mortandad Creek etc etc…and then no Bueno. There have been others. Good luck to you Patriot…

    • The poem tells me that WWH and HOB are something else. Poem also tells me the blaze is the HOB. Many ATFs suggest that the clues can be resolved with only the poem before the map comes into play. So Id be stunned if any of those answers could be taken from only the poem. But, Im not holding the TC at this moment. IMO

      • Flutter;

        ” Poem also tells me the blaze is the HOB” – Sorry, I don’t read it that way.

        From hoB, doesn’t the poem say, “From there it’s no place for the meek, the end is ever drawing nigh.” Are you saying that at hoB, we also have the “meek” place AND the “end” place?
        Folowed by “There’ll be no paddle up your creek, just heavy loads and water high.” Getting pretty crowded isn’t it? Meek, end, no-paddle creek, heavy loads and water high and the blaze all at hoB? Sorry, just doesn’t make sense to me – care to ex plain? – JDA

        • I can explain again, though I was pretty sure everyone has heard me repeat it often. I do not believe “end is ever drawing nigh” is referring to the end where the TC resides. I think “end is ever drawing nigh” further describes “Not far but too far to walk”. IMO this is a place where the history of area is recorded in the geography. Since time marches forward and we have been told by FF that the geography is likely to change over time, the end is ever drawing nigh but never arriving. “The moving finger writes. . .” (Poem from TTOTC)

          It is my firm opinion that “no paddle up your creek” is confirmation of the location where these other hints reside. Its not ‘exactly’ the name of the natural feature there, but is an exact description of it. Heavy loads and water high are a different way of describing “no paddle up your creek” IMO.

          I think your solve is not very far from mine JDA, but you are looking at the clues differently.

          • Where ever you are looking, we certainly are looking at the clues differently Flutterby – Good luck with your solve – JDA

        • Hi JDA,

          I don’t read the poem this way. (Because I can’t make sense of it one way or the other). But here is a counter argument.

          Put in BELOW the HOB. Let’s say the HOB is the torch on the statue of liberty. I “put in” below, by going into the statues base. From there, yady yadi yada… “found the blaze.” So I climb the steps, and low and behold, I’m at the torch. Which is the blaze, which is the HOB.

          I have no opinion on what’s right, just that is one way to read it. Putting in below doesn’t mean that I am ever actually at HOB. Can you email Forrest for me and ask him to be more precise! 😉

          • Not sure I agree. Why would hoB and the blaze both be the same thing? Using your example, the hoB would be the entire statue – from there yady yada yadi (meek, end, no paddle creek,HLnWH) to blaze, the torch. Using this line of thinking why not add wwwh and canyon down as the base on the statue, and add the head and crown as Indulgence. ALL clues as one? One “Location”? Why clump one group of clues, and exclude only a couple? Just askin’ JDA

          • It wouldn’t let me reply to you, so I am replying to me!

            Why? You ask. Because that was the immediate question you and flutterby were discussing: Could HOB and The Blaze be the same thing?

            I don’t know, but I showed a way to read it that is rational and made it so.

            Your follow up of why not ALL clues. Sure. I actually think some people believe that all clues describe one location. And although I’m not sure, I’m not smart enough to say: absolutely not.

            I don’t have any definitive answers, and am still at the stage where I’ll accept any reading as a potential solution.

            I guess the only thing I’m certain of is my uncertainty. 100% confidence in that!

          • I have to agree that what Emma is saying is possible. JDA, you asked “All clues, one location?” This could be a way to describe the location. One foot on another akin to one clue on top of another till reaching the chest.

            As Emma stated, put in BELOW hoB, could mean we follow a few clues from below hoB, till we reach hoB, which is the location of the blaze and the chest.

            Not only do I not see a problem with this line of thinking, I think it makes a lot of sense. I’ll continue to keep an open mind until finding the right path though.

          • The reply button is messed up and so I’m replying to an earlier message in order to respond to a later one that doesn’t have a reply button. So, Emma is saying basically what I’m saying. We know the clues are contiguous. FF has said putting one foot down and then stepping on it to get to the next foot. While I am not certain if all the clues point to the same place, I believe that some do.

            FF has a writing style in TTOTC in which he states something, places a comma following the statement and then adds a dependent clause to further describe what he has stated in the beginning of the sentence. Why would he not do this in the poem?

            Besides; how are you supposed to be wise and find the blaze if you have no idea what the blaze is. I don’t think this is a guessing game. I think he has already told us earlier in the poem exactly what the blaze is. So by the time he says, “if you’ve been wise and found the blaze”, you have wisely followed the earlier clues.

            Not only that, but I believe that the clues are contiguous in a logical sense and not just contiguous on the map. One clue literally leads to the next one. Without one, you can’t find the next one. And, if you miss one, you have left the poem.

            IMO

    • The Patriot ~ ‘I just started looking off and on from the comfort of my PC’
      and ‘I came up with all of this in just a few days.’

      Have you heard of the comment fenn stating, the treasure is not associated structure? Regardless if you want to believe that’s all clues [he created] are or are not… Did ya just pick a -Sewage treatment plant- because one was in the area? Will this be a clue that could last centuries? I mean, some of thing you mentioned may have not been a round when fenn was a kid… Treatment plant, Sport Facility… And just looking at the White Rock overlook location… it seems to be a arid area, I dare say desert. [ but I don’t know the ares well enough to call it that ] point is, fenn said if your looking in a desert get a new solve. Do you consider this a desert area?

      You say WWH is a waterfall. How did you arrive at this? There must be thousand in the RM’s… right? Are only going by something white needing to be the blaze? If so, are you not starting in the middle of the poem?

      If you have only been involved for a short time… there is a lot of info/comments/Q&A’s/Interviews etc. you might want to take time and look through. Most of what I see in your post can be picked-off by things fenn as already eliminated. If your interested, and I’m not being a salesman here, At the bottom of the page you’ll find “no paddle up your creek- JCM” He has collected years of info in a PFD download [ for a price ] and with continuing updates… Its a good way for a beginner to get years of info at your finger tips.

      But, no matter what… you’re late getting to the game and you might want to ketchup before you hotdog into the game.

      Just saying,,,,,,,,,,,,

      • Meh. I’m just throwing out there how I interpret a few things just like everybody else and some are far more fetched than mine.

        White rock has been there how long?
        Could it be the blaze?
        HOB. A treatment plant is home of brownies ain’t it

        How long has pinion trails been there?

        It’s all good like I said just throwing out there some of my interpretation. Funny how people trample on others thoughts.

        What’s yours?

        You got the tc?

        • The Patriot;

          One’s interpretation or solve elements are just as correct as the next persons – Until it is found. ANY information has a natural target on it. IF it is logical, and makes sense to the average person, few darts will be thrown. A treatment plant will have a B I G target on it. Is it logical that a man who loves nature, the way that Forrest does, would make his hoB a treatment plant? NOT logical to me, but then again I don’t have Indulgence. I would wish you good luck, but with that treatment plant in your solve, I think that it can end up in only one place, and that is the treatment plant – JMO – JDA

        • …you can have all of them brownies for yourself and all the yellow lemonade you want while you are there.

          I really don’t think a treatment plant is part of the solve as those aren’t a safe place for an 80 year old man…unless it Depends.

          • There is plenty of parking and trails around the white rock lookout that FF could have traversed. Let’s hear your far out solve.

          • I wish forrest would come out and say the 9 clues aren’t associated with human waste but the again those that were within 200-500′ may have had to go in there – alone. Don’t eat the yellow snow.

          • I definitely haven’t and I bet at least a few besides myself have focused in on all the spots with that criteria in the Rocky Mountains.

          • A treatment plant is a structure and we know that can’t be right. We also have been told not to dig up old outhouses which I think covers sewage as well. I know someone several years ago had this very solve and thoroughly checked it out. Go for it if you wish! You probably won’t have any competition.

        • The Patriot,

          No part of the poem is associated to any man made structure. Kind of reminds me of F’s comment that can be seen in the Cheat Sheet at the top of this thread, “I said on the Today show that the treasure is not associated with any structure.” f. And this one, Not in out house…..not associated with a structure. The treatment plant that you are referring to is one giant outhouse.

          That is why some folks are trampling on what you are saying. IMO you are not heeding what F says.

          Just Say’n

    • If you like – email me at SculptorJDA at aol dot com. I have a short one question test that will reveal whether we are in the same area, without you having to reveal any details about your area. Up to you – JDA

        • Tony;

          The chain is a unit of length equal to 66 feet.
          There are 80 chains in one statute mile.
          80 X 66 – 5280′
          What is so secret about this Tony – Simple math. JDA

          • I’ll give anyone reading this a round about clue. Think for a moment why he would say the TC is 8.25mi from SF. Why not 10mi? 20mi? Nice easy round numbers. The answer is because it’s a built in clue to the solve. That is all I will say…and I probably shouldn’t have said that.

          • Tony… have you read the original Fenn comment? The one where the (nice even) 66,000 links originated from ?
            Just curious…

          • Tony, like Ken said, I think you need a refresher. In Fennglish, the hint isn’t the distance, it’s within the comment and working it out, like JDA has pointed out. It’s the 66, 80, and the relations that they have with feet, IMO. It’s within the “age” if you will. IMO. But even better is that f didn’t want searchers digging up around his house. You get it don’t you. No revelations here, you can share all you want, hard to expect you will come up with anything new in relations to this comment.

          • Tony Driver,

            The 8.25 miles is a boundary set by F, if you are closer than 8.25 miles of Santa Fe you would be out of bounds. The map that is in TFTW also shows boundaries not to go beyond. There are also boundaries set not to go beyond in elevation, which is can’t be less than 5,000 ft and no more than 10,200 ft.

            There are a few more boundaries at the top in the Cheat Sheet section.

            I hope that you would be familiar with, if you are take no offense.

            Just Say’n

        • Tony, I don’t know anything, but I suspect that you are using 8.25 miles as a way point in a solve. I have done this also, in conjunction with the number 13. Because Forrest has told us that he “stays about 13”. And we also know that both of these numbers fit with the phrase “not far, but too far to walk”. So, “about” 13 as one waypoint and 8.25 miles as a precise waypoint. Your mileage may vary.

      • Tony–How did your weekend turn out for you?You mentioned there was one thing you needed at the end if I remember correctly??I would like to discuss One thing away from this blog if you are interested we will set up E-mail addresses R–B

        • yes RB. I had a major breakthrough on the weekend. Not sure how we can discuss…but feel free to email me at: losbanos99@yahoo.com. When you email me…how do I know it’s RB? Email me your ph# and I’ll call you, if you want. Thanks.

          • Flutterby….I lived in Los Banos,CA from 1997 to 2006. So I opened this “losbanos99” yahoo email account in 1999. So you are correct! I was living there! 😉

          • Hi Tony It’s all good I will E-mail you tomorrow you should know it’s me– I will mention something from a previous post you should recognize-I tried from my I pad it won’t go though. I will e-mail from my computer Tues A.M. Thanks R–B

  30. Seeker, and Patriot, ever wonder why Forrest stated that distance in links? I think because he also stated words of old (not used commonly today) in the poem for the same reasons, “Tarry Scant” and “Brave and in the Wood”, the conversion of these terms in today’s language is close, but not exact, however 66,001 links which is an exact term of measurement, 8.25 miles, but reason for saying it was clear from Friday break in at Fenn’s home. “I said North of Santa Fe(only) because I didn’t want people digging up my yard.” f …Now what is that quip equivalency you ask? Highway 285 is the one most directly north from Santa Fe, so he plays the game of Joker with us once again, just like Canasta, and home of Brown, so if you were to stumble on Home of Brown or just below it on Hwy 285, and realize the place where you are, you may be able to go right to it.

    So why is it, that there comes a “SemiColon after Brown, meek and nigh”. Because the word Go? For all to Seek, rhyms with meek, SO Seeker do you follow my train of thought on stanza 5? Pat riot try the next line, now put in “I have done it tied” do we not see a rhyme in time? Can we complete the thought for stanza 5 now as where we might put in?

    TT

    • TT
      Fenn also add; “The treasure is hidden more than 8.25 miles north of the *northern* limits of Santa Fe, New Mexico.”

      I follow your train of thought, TT… however, which location is the measurements taken from?? The city outer limits of “SF” or the “County” of SF? I dare say there’s more than a few miles difference between them.
      60,000 or 60,001 aside [ which I’m a little confused on], The comment doesn’t really narrow down anything. Could the conversation many years back have more do do with the simple idea… we need to follow the clues precisely… meaning as if we where to survey the clues to the landscape in a manner done long ago… Not actual “surveying” but understanding certain words that work the same… one example; “end” is considered a boundary or border… not unlike an actual survey. Different meanings of the words can give us a type of surveyed area… others, just for example; nigh, left or west? far right or east? Is halt related to a type of “end” LOL are we to smile while walking away with the chest, after we marvel gaze at what we just surveyed?

      I try and utilize the ATF’s as best I can, check and balance thoughts and ideas… but IF we can’t make a connection to the poem, I call that a rabbit whole.
      So other than fenn just not wanting folks searching near him… the conversation many years back was simply about how folks could tell the size of their neighbors properties or a horse track, OR maybe, what we might find in the field related to the clues. That’s the best I got off the top of my head.

      I mean, fenn said he followed the clues *when” he hid the chest, said he took, or it was, the most “direct route” from the car to the hide *when* he hid the chest… if {repeat IF} he had to do it just the same way as he tells us in the poem… it could be something like my idea above… using words that are similar to the surveying methods when he was a kid. line of thinking. Map are all about surveying type of methods, a river can be the boundary for two states, for example.

      Sorry, I follow your idea… But personally, I really dislike the idea of roads or train track, or golf courses or statues etc. involved. But that’s just me.

    • TT –

      Fenn made a comment on a post about Metes and Bounds.

      That’s why he used Links. He was literally commenting on the post about how distances used to be measured in rural america.

  31. Break down stanza 5, line by line and apply it to the other 4 stanzas which contain clues, start with stanza 2 at WWWH and use “Begin it” for go

    “So why is it that I must go “begin it”

    And leave my trove for all to seek? meek, drawing nigh, creek,

    From there it’s no place for the meek,

    The end is ever drawing nigh;

    There’ll be no paddle up your creek,

    Just heavy loads and water high. Next stanza

    The answers I already know; answers “if you’ve been wise” etc…

    So hear me all; I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.

    So now what? It is just too far to walk so let’s just ride.

    This all seems to come together at the border, on the threshold of fenn’s dream, a creek a ride and a blaze in the distance, but only in time.

    Hwy 285 may be the key IMO.

    TT

  32. ok ill bite we are the fish swimming in a lake some like to confuse others to lead them astray. and one likes to lead you tp the bait so you can be caught. who are you listning to? i figured Espanola at the 8.25 mark or in bounds north of Santa Fe i dont know because that area is like a horse shoe some day i might be at there again i know Mr Fenn mentions that place in his teachers with ropes story. i do think people confuse mr Fenns words every time he says something of coarse i think about a true meaning as well my brain works better these days straight forward not to say its not looping and out there i think im going to dress like the mouse in this cat and mouse game what do you Think?

  33. by all means im not saying im the one you should listen to. what im saying is you should listen to Mr Fenn visit the SantaFe area but its north of there by at least 8.25 miles thats all for my thoughts on this topic a blaze may be somthing hot or anger or a marker out of the ordanary to pinpoint the exact location i have high hopes that its personalised in some fassion to Mr Fenn himself

    • Jeff, I believe Cuyamongue is 8.25 miles north of the northern most boundary of the city of Santa Fe. Which is way out by the Opera House! I have a line drawn horizontally across my Benchmark map of NM, thru Cuyamongue, and I don’t search anywhere south of it. I don’t bother with angles at all, and of course that could be argued, but that is me.

  34. sandy that’s probably right i got my point from google earth years ago but its like a horse shoe and im easly confused when im down there i might visit around this week end if the weather is premitting i know there is a place where one should not throw rocks close by but im not going close to there either. i think your right about the waste of time.

  35. That distance of 8.25 miles is up Hwy 285 at Camel Rock Monument, near the casino of same name, the point was given by him to obviously keep searchers away from his home, which did not work at 100 percent, citing case Miller break in.

    Now what TT is alluding to is this; how does this relate to learning to ride a bicycle …backwards, you ask? 285 and 825 are mirrored by the Joker to send a hint that ordinary conversion of 66000 links will only produce more questions of how the poem is like the backward bike, until we see that idea it may be impossible to interpret the clues correctly.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFzDaBzBlL0

    Mr. Fenn, I am not even close to solving your riddle. I’ve tried for months and nothing works. I am not asking for a clue to the treasure, I’m asking for a clue to the clues. Please help me. ~Mary.

    To which Fenn says:

    Dear Mz. Mary, The solve is difficult for many searchers because their minds think the clues are tougher to decrypt than they really are.

    Some say they are trying to think outside the box, as if the solution lies somewhere out there.

    Until now I have resisted telling them to get back in the box where their thoughts are comfortable and flow more easily.

    The blueprint is challenging so the treasure may be located by the one who can best adjust. To illustrate my point go to YouTube – Smarter Every Day. f

    Does messing with the poem by re-ordering stanza 5, ie using it as a guide, constitute

    riding a backward bike? Maybe, but something about stanza 5 is suspiciously constructed, by a very clever Architect.

    TT

    • Every time I see your name I keep feeling like your Tom from Myspace.

      Do tell, what do you see in stanza 5?

      Also, 66,000 links mirrored is 99,000 links which is a bit over 12 miles (close to the 13 mentioned by others).

  36. Another put-in/take-out spot is Chavez Canyon, which is about 22.25 miles from El Vado Ranch and 8.25 miles from the Big Eddy takeout.

    hmmmm

      • I believe WWWH is where the Chama waters meet waters from the dam, either the El Vado or Heron. In this case I like El Vado since its 8.25 miles from El Vado Ranch and Big Eddy takeout. Just something about that 8.25 in that paragraph

        • Also this was interesting. Didn’t ff mention pinon in a conversation ?

          the Rio Chama winds quietly through pinon pine forests and desert scenery

          • “If I was standing where the treasure chest is, I’d see trees, I’d see mountains, I’d see animals. I’d smell wonderful smells of pine needles, or pinyon nuts, sagebrush—and I know the treasure chest is wet. Well you’ve asked me a lot of questions and some of them—most of them I answered, a few I haven’t, but I’ve got to tell you—there’s one thing I told you I wish I had not.” f

            But then in a later Santa Fe New Mexican magazine there is this:

            “But beware, the video contains a couple of potentially misleading clues. First, Fenn states in the video that if he were standing near the treasure, “I’d smell wonderful smells, of pine needles or piñon nuts or sagebrush.”
            He also says in the video: “I know the treasure chest is wet.”
            But in an interview with The New Mexican, Fenn said, “That video didn’t have any clues. It might influence some people to come to New Mexico, but I don’t want to give the impression that I am giving that as a clue because I am not.” JDA

          • If you were standing where treasure chest is….it would look like “Almost heaven”…quoting John Denver’s “Country Roads”; A good place to die. 😉

  37. I believe that, just as there is more than one layer to the poem, there is also more than one Blaze. I don’t think this applies to the other clue locations such as WWWH or job, at least not in my solve.

    Thoughts? Could there be more than one “solve layer?” And if so, could there be more than one correct answer to any given clue, depending on what “layer” of the poem you’re working on?

    • Joe, I believe there are 2 layers. One before finding the first blaze and one after you have become wise. ie the first blaze educates you to do the search another way, the second time around. I believe Heavy loads and water high is an explanation of what is in front of you if you continue (the first time) and the second blaze for the hidey spot the second time around. But thats just me! All IMO.

    • Joe….out of the box thinking will be needed to find the TC. All reasonable options should be on the table until BOTG confirms you are at the right general location. When that happens, then the Blaze will present itself. Good luck! -Tony 😉

      • Tony Driver ~ ‘Joe….out of the box thinking will be needed to find the TC.’

        Dear Mz. Mary.
        “The solve is difficult for many searchers because their minds think the clues are tougher to decrypt than they really are.
        Some say they are trying to think outside the box, as if the solution lies somewhere out there. ***Until now I have resisted telling them to get back in the box*** where their thoughts are comfortable and flow more easily.
        The blueprint is challenging so the treasure may be located by the one who can best adjust. To illustrate my point go to YouTube – Smarter Every Day. f

  38. Joe , I agree there is 1 WWWH , 1 TIITCD , 1 HOB , 1 NPFTM, after that it is questionable or solve dependent but you will be covering ground more than once as you discover the meaning of the first blaze and therefore modify the directions of the poem appropriately. IMO

    • i have been hearing the opinions of a 2nd even a third blaze and multiple trips thru the poem but even tho i really opened my mind to accept that possibility, it just don’t work for me. That said, i am stuck up a creek on clue 8-9ish soooo…. where’s the next blaze??
      🙂

      • Smoky. In my solve you start at wwwh , which is a mountain peak, go in a canyon down which intersects with another canyon. Think T intersection. You go left at this point continuing down the map(but uphill) until you make a right turn into a third canyon when you put in below the HOB. You then continue down past no place for the meek and hob past the end is ever drawing nigh and no paddle up your creek to a spot with 2 letter c’s( actually two 180 degree u-turns in the road you are on). From there, there is only Heavy loads and water high and the last of the blaze( which is the face of a woman). At this point you find that the blaze is the entire solve from wwwh to the end and is a picture drawn by the canyon/road when seen from overhead and you are told to not waste time on the face(of the blaze which has a marvel gaze).
        This picture then tells a story. Applying the story lets you follow the remaining direction in the poem back up the last canyon to the place directed . Then follow the path from The end is ever drawing nigh to Heavy loads and water high again. Only this time HLaWH will be the 2 blaze at the hidey spot. All IMO of course and in my solve. Oh and as stated before my WWWH has to do with quartz and so does WH.

  39. I don’t to want to throw cold water over the already hot topic and discussions, but Fenn said “Do not mess with my poem”. I think adding another layer to the poem and proposing to find two blazes and follow the same path twice are a sort of messing the poem IMO.

    As I pointed out and proposed to rearrange the poem in the “logically” correct order in “the nine clues” discussion (based on the different tenses the lines are written in the poem) HLnWH only describes your status and the condition of the path, not the location or direction nor your movement, and comes after you have found the chest.

    I know that my train of thought is too simple, but I try to read the poem with a kid’s simple mind. Also I’m really happy to have a single blaze, not many. I had a hard time finding THE blaze, and I don’t want spend any more time and effort to find another. Of course I will do it again if this solve turned out to be wrong. That being said, I’d like to present my blaze.

    In my solve, my blaze is at the end of the “no place for the meek” creek from below the HOB and there is no way you can go past the blaze. The end doesn’t come easy, but you have to stop before the blaze and have to look straight [quickly] down. According to the poem if you are not wise you cannot find the blaze, and finding the blaze is not the end. You have to do something more according to the poem; You have to be brave and in the wood to actually find the chest and get it.

    My blaze can be seen from any direction, but sometimes the view to it is blocked when you are following “no place for the meek” creek. Also the distance from the put in point is about 500′ as Fenn has mentioned. I’m planning to go on my BOTG next spring when the snow is gone, and find out whether my solve is correct or wrong.

    All this of course is only my opinion.

    — MajinKing

      • I think you have to be wise in order to find the blaze according to the clue. The line clearly says that, “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze.” The word “wise” in this line, IMO, refers that you are to remain in your trail, i.e., do not veer off the trail to find the blaze before you get to the end of the trail. I think Fenn is saying that if you’re wise and stay on the trail, eventually you’ll find the blaze at the end of the trail. There is no way you can miss the blaze as long as you follow the trail to the end without veering off it. Once you find the blaze, then you have to “be brave and in the wood” to find the chest according to the next clue in the poem, IMO.

        — MajinKing

          • Hi Oz10: because the distance is zero. And no, that doesn’t mean that if you figure out the blaze you’re done. The blaze is not small IMO.

          • Hi Zap, it could be that he used all those words to just say ‘is right there dummy’, but it could be something else. That word obvious carries a heavier weight I think.

            Remember that a winning solve will take you to within several steps from the chest, there is no need to get to the area around the blaze and look around aimlessly.

          • Oz10: in my opinion, it’s not right there, even though most interpret that statement that way. Suppose the blaze were the size of West Yellowstone (it isn’t, but humor me). If the treasure chest were anywhere in that town under those circumstances, then clearly the distance is zero. It’s just not helpful.

        • Hi MK you have to go to water high stop ,then if you’ve been wise ,pass tence ,you look down quickly.you already know where the blaze is before hand. I made that mistake 6/18/18.I know my blaze is right. I looked that blaze over from side to side back to front it toke most of the day it is beautiful there.i made that mistake once. Read and think. The tarry scant is another problem but it is all there for next year.now I have to wait 8 months again.

          • Clint,

            I think HLAWH puts one in the area of where the blaze is at. I don’t think the blaze will be obvious as in “If you are *wise* and found the blaze”, seems to me there is probably more analyzing, thinking and looking while in the area to find it.

            Just Say’n

          • Clint,

            It’s quite possible that HLnWH ‘is’ or is very near what the blaze refers to. I also think WWH is part of WH… The heavy loads may refer to the waters. as well as WH
            The idea of NF,BTFTW indicates to me, don’t go… it’s too far from where you need to be at… which is WWH.
            The word “just” – HLnWH may refer to the “exact” location to be at when at WWH.
            “Drawing” means the act of pulling toward or in the case of water, gravity does the pulling [draining] of the water to you. This might be ‘seen’ from the location of WWH, and more precise, the “Just” location of HLnWH.

            For me, stanza three is only depicting what is going on with the waters. In which case, there might be more than one… you may need to be at “your” creek or the correct one.. to have it all align properly.
            Summation: WWH and HLnWH could be one in the same, the blaze location, all below the hoB, where you observe the waters pulling towards you at this single spot.
            Quickly seems to be involving a time span… tarry scant could possibly mean to linger a short time. What is it we need to gaze at?
            Another version of Quickly is Quicky; which in one meaning is “Fix”; the act of putting something in working order again.
            I say this because; Just, take it in, put in, gaze, all can related to a “fix” or “exactly” spot. Not unlike the need to “nail down” or fixed or coupled or “exactly right”.. the same can be for “marry”; join, fit together, “cause to meet”…

            Even the word “alone” can be exactly, precise, perfectly… as used as an adverb. Those are only a few Multiple Meanings of word usages in the poem.

            Do ya seen a pattern of word usages?

          • Jake,
            If you’re talking ‘flow’ as in movement of the searcher… nope, this wont work. It’s all about observing what is near.
            All the meanings, definitions, usages are in plain English… it’s just not simplistic or easy or KiSSable as most would want a difficult poem deciphering challenge to be.

          • Forrest, you talk about the clues being difficult to solve (opposite being easy) yet that the solutions are simple (opposite being complex). Yet when I read the stories of other searchers, I often think that their solutions to the clues tend to be either easy solutions or made out to be very complex and over-thought. Are there any suggestions you would give in approaching the clues and solving them? ~Craig
            *~Craig, there is no substitute for thinking and planning and observing and looking at maps, unless it’s the desire to keep it simple.f

          • Dear Mz. Mary,
            The solve is difficult for many searchers because their minds think the clues are tougher to decrypt than they really are.

            Some say they are trying to think outside the box, as if the solution lies somewhere out there.

            Until now I have resisted telling them to get back in the box where their thoughts are comfortable and flow more easily.

            http://mysteriouswritings.com/featured-question-and-weekly-words-from-forrest-fenn-get-back-in-the-box/

          • ~I looked up words and definitions of words and changed them, went back and rebooted. I very pleased, the results are what I wanted… it turned out exactly like I wanted.

            ~The poem in my book is something that I changed over and over again. When you read the poem it looks like just simple words there. But I guarantee you that I worked on that. I felt like an architect drawing that poem.

            ~“There are several people that have deciphered the first two clues. I don’t think they knew it, because they walked right on past the treasure chest.”– (Moby Dickens Book Shop Signing / November 2, 2013)

            I just threw in the last one to help explain the idea the clues are possibly closer then most may think… hence the idea of how the word usages help.

          • While Mz Mary’s answer talks about searchers making it more complicated… don’t ya think these other comments give reasoning to why…

            ~ …I’ve said searchers should go back to the poem so many times that I don’t want to say it again here.

            ~ “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f”

          • Ken ~ * Sometimes you can overcook a solution by thinking too much. I am a simple man… *

            Funny it took a simple man 15 years to refine a poem that he felt could last longer than anyone here.

            ~ I’m not flippant about this… I’m looking a hundred years down the road, maybe a thousand years down the road. People don’t understand that.”

            How do you make something last in plain English if not by the usages of the words written?

          • Seeker… I just added that semi- reliable quote because I had forgotten about it actually. That one was to *Doc* from Fenn sometime in 2013 or earlier. It came to light in * Forrest Needs Help* post( pimento and cheese recipe).
            No arguments from me. The poem has done it’s job stupendously as of today(as far as we know). I think the approaches that folks use to dig into the poem are all over the place… and not just geared for stomping out clues as you like to indicate. Sure, the examples we’ve read or heard about seem that way, but I bet there are many more that we are not privy to, that are most likely more diverse. Who is to say really? I agree that word usage and meanings play an important role, and again, I believe most folks believe that too. I think that the eventual correct solution will be a real head smacker and like Fenn said, “…what took me so long.”

            Just because Fenn was quoted as saying ” marry the clues to *a place* on a map.” , does not mean that that is *exactly* how that is to be taken. He has also tied the clues to *places* in comments, so, I believe it may be risky to think that a searcher heads to one site/clue location to *view* multiple others *from* that place. That would have to be *one* extremely secure/long-lasting/unchangeable site to last intact for 1000 years… and not mess up the rest of the poem. Maybe you are right… but that is where you and I strongly see things quite differently.

  40. Hi CharlieM it is apparent you do not know what or where the creek or HOB is then the blaze then water high ,but have to be wise to find them,,hint WWH nail it down.this was my aaahha moment, what took me so long!!! P.S. ( (WGP )

    • The phrase “nailed down” (FF sure seems to love it) is a bit of a stretch, but revealing.

      OH! . . . I should say something about the blaze. There are
      several things — within 15 miles of the hidey place — that might
      be seen as the blaze. But only one of them works as intended in the poem. All natural things, not man-made. As always, IMO.

    • Dal… I understand the comparison about the level of *difficulty*. This SB uses the word *interred*, and covered with stones. That seems like it may fall in the *buried* category…. or do you feel something different?

      • Ken,

        If you cover something with a blanket is it buried?
        fenn also implied the idea of debris blowing in there [ if I recall correctly ] and covering the chest. Is that buried? I guess the question would be; if you cover something, is it considered buried or just out of site?
        Example; to store food, the practice of digging a hole, store your food and covering with a rock kept the food cooler at below ground temp in summer, compared to above ground temp. It also works in winter to help the food from freezing… the air temp could be 30 degrees but the below ground temp could be 50 degrees.

        The word interred can mean a tomb… which is not really considered buried but, placed within. A vault or crypt idea… something covered. Buried and covered or even hidden, whether deliberate or not, are basically the same thing… does “in there” hint as to what/where it could be?
        LOL hinting to why you would leave your search partner in the car??? One size fits all, but not all can fit in the size available… Look quickly down { duck, bend, crawl } A place he could throw his body on the chest-?- and not be discovered for decades or more?

        • Seeker… I get it. My question was in reference to the story as told. Interred where the soldier fell… *and covered* with stones to keep animals from *digging*. To me… this implies a hole was dug… the soldier was placed in it… and it was covered with stones to keep critters from digging him up. Pretty straight forward. So… the story implies… buried. I was wondering what Dal was considering given the contents of the story.

          • The emphasis of “in there” was where I was going.
            I try and align thoughts with what the poem may relay… even if it’s not in the same line or stanza in the poem.

            I mean, there rock piles everywhere… some placed, others from water-flow {flash flood idea} and more that have fallen from a rockwall… The inter part seem’s to imply another type of covering, yet still open for winds to enter and what the winds can bring.

            That doesn’t say the chest can’t be hidden by a rock, a pile of rock or below ground, in some manner, “in there.” I’m just looking a possible setting that kinda protects both body and trove.

        • Sure sounds possible to me Seeker. – If not covered in snow, maybe that is why Forrest has said that if one knew precisely where it was at, it could be retrieved in any season – or something like that – Hummm??? One last trip before the snow flies??? – JDA

        • I’m not convinced that FF ever expected his body
          to remain undiscovered for decades after he died
          at the hidey place. Embellishment is sure popular. As always, IMO.

          • We have been here before tighterfocus.

            IF a body is found, there is an attempt to identify the remains, and search the location… now more than ever, most scenes are scrutinized very carefully during any investigation… especially if the cause of death is unknown. Not to mention, down the road would bring in an archeologist team for excavation.

            I’m sure fenn had some thoughts on having his body rest in peace… No embellishment… just forethought.

      • good catch Sandy. Note the *placed in the hole and covered with dirt*… and piled stones on top… so her divorce wouldn’t get out.

      • Also: “Doug Hyde in Stone”
        Einstein: derived from the German word einsteinen, which means to enclose or to surround, with stone.

        I’m confident the bronze chest isn’t buried, per se. If these are hints (and I certainly think they are), then I’d say Indulgence is entombed or sepulchered.

    • Agree wholeheartedly Dal. Perhaps even for the and reasons.

      I wonder why the stick figure horse in OUAW-Revised story is on a brown horse vs. a coal black horse….and why Quahanah is without a headdress?

      That is remedied now.

      Reminds me of two songs (and I won’t post them), but ill bet you can guess!

      To all past, present and future who serve America, thank you.

      • I think I know one of those songs (KP -> DH), but not sure on the other but these lyrics came to mind:

        “After nine days I let the horse run free
        ‘Cause the desert had turned to sea
        There were plants and birds and rocks and things
        there was sand and hills and rings
        The ocean is a desert with it’s life underground
        And a perfect disguise above
        Under the cities lies a heart made of ground
        But the humans will give no love”

        Thank you to all the veterans today, and every day. Especially you Forrest Fenn.

        https://www.military.com/veterans-day/8-ways-to-express-appreciation-on-veterans-day.html

        Overall good questions Twingem.

        • Ah yes, got the first one – and today she isn’t about forgiveness cuz Quahana is feeling feisty.

          Love Horse With No Name – and how fitting with America.

          The other is Remedy by Jason Mraz. Video cracks me up…and Quahanah didn’t worry his life away either. He rode that coal black pony with passion and purpose.

          That stickwoman (ahem) deserves the headdress imo. Perhaps Forrest will add that at some point.

          A special shout out to my daughter today! Thank you for serving.

          • I love that!

            In the Remedy the scene where he is driving with a rear full of roosters (had to be careful wording that) reminded me of my high school days when Missoula still had a drag (they narrowed the downtown to 1 lane) and some of the hijinks I managed to somehow get away with that still sound strange to this day.

            In the future Twingem, Forrest should consult you before releasing a revised addition. That would fit the, if you are wise, part of the poem.

  41. I think there are four different kinds of distances; horizontal, vertical, beeline, and the actual walking distance. If the starting point and the ending point are at different elevation (especially when the difference is large, say 200′) you better mention which distance you’re talking about. Unless you do that, most people will assume that you’re talking about the horizontal distances.

    When Fenn mentioned that some searchers were close to the TC by 200′ or 500′ I think he meant the horizontal distance measured on a 2D map. If you have a topo map you can find out what the vertical distance between two points is by looking at the elevation line. You can calculate the beeline distance using Pythagorean theorem. You can guess the trail distance (or length) by roughly estimating it piecewise. Or read it from the sign at the trailhead. Or you can measure it with your BOTG. I’m not sure how long it took for Fenn to walk from the parking lot to the blaze, but I’m guessing that it might have taken him less than 30 min one way. Fenn said he spent one afternoon to hide the TC making two trips. Therefore the total time could have been less than 2 hours IMO. The time from the car to the 500′ circle line is already included in the time estimation.

    — MajinKing

  42. I don’t know whether my new idea is worth the paper that it is printed on, or not, but a couple of days ago I came up with a new idea about the blaze.

    What if the blaze and the Tarry Scant were one and the same? The stanza reads:

    “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
    Look quickly down, your quest to cease.
    But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
    Just take the chest and go in peace.”

    All one long sentence – one complete thought.

    So, “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze” – this is past tense, so, if you have been wise in the past, and have found the blaze (in the past)… So the blaze must be something that you have seen before – like maybe, seen a picture or illustration of while reading TTOTC. OK, hold that thought. You MAY have seen a picture or illustration of the Blaze when reading TTOTC.

    “Look quickly down, your quest to cease…” Look at the base of whatever the Blaze may be, and you will find what you seek.

    “But tarry scant with marvel gaze…” One definition of Tarry Scant is a black stone that has been flattened on two sides, like a grave marker.

    Now let’s go back to our blaze. Is there a picture or illustration in TTOTC that looks like a grave marker? I can think of two – On page 95 Forrest is holding a grave marker, and he talks about it in the TEXT – Then there is the one on page 37 where Forrest is sitting on a grave marker – he also talks about it in the TEXT. (TEXT highlighted for those that say that hints can only be in the TEXT – not in pictures or illustrations)

    So, “If you’ve been wise and have found a grave marker…Look down at its base, and you will find what you seek… but don’t spend too much time staring at the grave marker, for it is not here – but rather “Just take the chest and go in peace.” – Just take YOUR chest (Yourself) to the place where Forrest would have found PEACE – had he chosen to end his life here.

    OK GUYS – DO NOT head for the nearest cemetery and start tearing up plots. I DO NOT think that it means a REAL Grave Marker. I think that he MAY be talking about a flat stone that MAY look somewhat like a Grave Marker.

    This is JUST an exercise in trying to figure out what this stanza COULD mean, but probably doesn’t. Just something to do to pass the winter – JDA

    • Good theory JDA, and while the blaze might be what you say it is, we shouldn’t need to use the book to find it. We know that all we need is the poem. It likely still needs to be something that stands out in nature.

    • Hi JDA, In the pic on page 37, notice the crooked cross. In the Catholic church, when the priest would say, Pax vobiscum, (go in peace), the priest would make the sign of the cross.

    • Hi JDA,
      An interesting idea indeed. But looking at your reasoning, I think I can make several points.
      1) As I pointed out sometime ago, the tense of the line was used to indicate the order of the lines for interpretation, and has nothing to do with the actual timing of the search itself.
      2) As Fenn mentioned you only need the poem and a map to find the chest. I don’t think a searcher 100 years from now may not see the book at all. I don’t think Fenn included the blaze in his books.
      3) I think you’re using “tarry scant” twice in your explanation, once to guess at the grave marker, and once again in “but don’t spend too much time staring at the grave marker”. “tarry scant” may have double meaning but IMO it is not used in that way.
      4) I think your interpretation of the line “Just take the chest and go in peace” looks like you’re stretching the meaning a bit too far in the wrong direction.

      Again your idea is interesting but I think it’s a stretching too far. I think if you find the blaze, and if you’re brave and in the wood, you will be able to find the TC right there without additionally going to some other places, I’m sure of it.

      — MK

      • Thanks for your input.

        I guess that until Indulgence neither of us will know whether or not our interpretations are correct.

        Point 1) – That is your opinion, and it could be a good one. I disagree.
        Point 2) – I am sure that TTOTC will be available “online” – whatever form that will take 100 or 1000 years from now.
        Point 3) – Yes, I used two different interpretations of Tarry Scant – who says one can only use one?
        Point 4) – How am I stretching it? Why can’t “Take the chest” mean taky YOUR chest? It is as good an interpretation as any.
        If you have not yet found Indulgence, how can you take it anywhere? and “go in peace” – Go in a peaceful state of mind? Strange thing to say to someone who has supposedly just found a treasure – but that is just me.

        Thanks for the input – you could well be right. This was just an exercise to generate a bit of conversation and just a new way of looking at the stanza – JDA

        • I’ll add; or fenn added; GE and/or a good map.

          Seems GE is sufficient. So now we should be asking, what are the details fenn is talking about?

    • @JDA et al, amazing just today I started thinking about this blaze thing! To me I think finding the blaze is what is needed, the chest will be close by, the clues help find the blaze, IMO. As for past tense I feel that it will be in the past, after a long ordeal of searching!

      • Cholly,
        Did you miss the quote in which FF said that it wont do any good to go looking for the blaze if you dont know WWWH and HOB. .

        • @ FB, No! I’m cognitive of my need to start at WWWH and to then ‘put in’ below HoB, just saying IMO the Blaze is the crucial discovery prior to TC. Even after the TC is found the Blaze will still be there! Thanks! Enjoy what you have to share.

        • I am still playing catch-up apparently. No where have i seen Forrest actually say you had to know the HOB. Absolutely must know WWWH and have it nailed down BUT, so far, HOB kinda floated like a direction thing. Can someone throw a quote to ponder on??

          Smoky 🙂

          • FF said, if you do not have the first clue nailed down you have nothing. The poem is a path and you must follow each clue to arrive at the correct solve. You must learn to think like FF, read and listen to every possible thing he says and how he says it. There are reasons that FF wrote it, home of the Brown. There are many opinions about hoB and how it should be applied. Is Brown a last name of a person, or is Brown objects like brown mud or brown spiders?

    • JDA,
      I did not realize that tarry scant could mean a stone flattened on two sides. I will look that up. But, I do think the poem is taking us to a grave. I just think it is not a grave with a marker. I think it is a remnant of history. I think TTOTC talked about “the remains of history”. I doubt someone can identify it unless they understand the entire poem. IMO.

      • Flutterby;

        Glad I was able to point you to something you did not know :-).

        I agree, the poem is taking us to a spot that was almost a grave.

        No, I do not think that it is a remnant of history – One has to use ones imagination with the grave marker that we will find – JMO – JDA

        • JDA, I don’t mean to jump in your conversation, but it’s funny you should say that.( My possible spot is such a place). I forget which interview it was, but when he talks about where he put the chest, he has almost a somber tone. I don’t know if anyone caught that.
          *Just my opinion

          • Veronica – Jump in anytime – The more the merrier.

            If I were talking about a place that I would want my body to rest for all eternity, I doubt that I would have a jovial tone – My tone would also be a bit somber.

            Here is a quote I like: “And when my tackle box is closed at last and the cadis hatch is gone, I will rest through all of time and space, pillowed down and scented in, with a smile that comes from remembering the special things that brought me to that final place, one which was knowing Peggy was there, somewhere, waiting for me.” f JDA

          • Hi JDA: it’s a nice touch that Forrest added the mention of Peggy in the book; the original version did not.

  43. I had an odd thought concerning “Tea with Olga”……

    What if the name Olga meant “Holy”..?
    What if Red tea represented….Divinity or the Blood of Christ
    Then Black would represent….Death
    and Green would represent…..Resurrection and rebirth

    Huh….Isn’t that odd?

    If you see my Deputy…tell her I need a cup of tea (Twinning preferably)

    1f

    • Actually Sheriff, I had thought of that before. It certainly is interesting. FF has a gift for symbolization in his writing. That is part of the reason its so hard to solve the poem IMO. He uses symbolism everwhere and so its hard to figure out which symbolism is a hint and which ia FF just using his gift for writing and intrigue.

  44. A blaze can be a bright strong flame, or a blaze of sunshine.
    You can have a blaze of talent or a blaze of anger.
    You can mark a trail with a blaze or blaze a trail.
    A blaze can be a stripe on an animals face, or a streak in your hair.
    You can be hit by a blaze of gunfire, or go down in a blaze of glory.
    There can be a blaze of stars at night, or a blaze of color in springtime.
    You can blaze a tune, or blaze the way.
    There’s a blaze of brilliance, or a blaze of excitement.
    Or a blaze of jewels, or a blaze of enthusiasm.
    You can blaze a joint and even get a Blaze Mastercard:
    https://blazecc.com/

      • Hi JDA i see you are following up on my advice about the blaze being in the pass tence I posted here two weeks ago that is where the wise comes in affect. This is where I made my mistake and had my aaahha moment at the same time. I had 1300 miles to think where I went wrong it was a long drive home with out the tc will not happen next June 2019 I think it will be found next year if not by me by some body else . some of the whispers are getting close.

          • Hi JDA,
            Has someone mentioned that the past tense was needed just to rearrange the lines in the correct order? As I put the lines written in the future tense later than the ones written in the past tense? I think the poem is not written in the correct order since Fenn wanted to have the rhymes right for each stanza. We have to rearrange the lines according to the tense to get the correct sequence of the clues as Fenn has suggested (“you have to read the poem in the correct order”).
            — MK

          • MajinKing: (“you have to read the poem in the correct order”)
            That is something you wrote.

          • Hi JDA & JF,

            These are what Fenn said. “Don’t mess with my poem”, and “Clues in consecutive order.”
            I paraphrased in my previous comment. I think interpreting the lines with far-fetched ideas, not understanding like a kid is reading, is what Fenn meant that we are messing with his poem. Also Fenn could have written all lines in present tense, but there must have been some other reasons why he didn’t do that. And that’s why he said that the clues in consecutive order, meaning you have to get the clues in the correct order as he intended.

            With that explanation I’m repeating my nine clues in the CORRECT order (in stanza # – line #). I know that they are not presented in the same order as is written, but I think we should put the clues in that order to find the chest. Again this is all my opinion.

            2-1, 2-2, 2-3, 2-4, 3-1, 3-2, 4-1, 4-2, 6-3

            — MK

          • ** ** ** MajinK shared – “I’m repeating my nine clues in the CORRECT order (in stanza # – line #). I know that they are not presented in the same order as is written . . .

            “2-1, 2-2, 2-3, 2-4, 3-1, 3-2, 4-1, 4-2, 6-3” ** ** **

            Ya ‘ta Hey-O, MajinKing –

            I don’t understand your “Correct order”, MK.

            What you presented is exactly the order they appear in the poem, no?

            Help me out, what is one of us missing?

            JK

          • Hi JK,
            I know. I think what you’re saying is exactly right! I’m sorry I didn’t fully explain about it in my previous comment. The difference in my order from other searchers is that I’m not considering 3-3, 3-4, 4-3 and 4-4 as part of the nine clues to find the chest. Most searchers consider those lines as part of their clues and include them in their solves. But what I’m saying is that those lines should be considered after you’ve got the chest (i.e., post clues). In that sense those lines should be rearranged, or put later in the poem, or not be considered as clues.
            — MK

        • Clint, not take away from anything anyone else says here, but What I see, that makes things seem out of order a bit. Example, Put in, below the home of Brown. He gives instructions before and after different clues. I see the instructions as part of a clue, not as a clue by itself. The line, If you’ve been wise, suggest to me to double check your thinking here up to this point, look around is everything correct. Are there choices to be made here? Good luck…

          • Hi Greg shafer where is the last place ff tells you to go before the blaze ,WATER high ,then says if you’ve been wise ,pass tence follow the poem precisely .

    • Now for something completely different.

      Small minds are concerned with the extraordinary, great minds with the ordinary.
      Blaise Pascal

      It’s another rabbit hole, but looking up his quotes is at least an entertaining and informative one.

  45. I think the Blaze, is a visual feature on the landscape, that automatically funnels, the searcher, into a smaller feature on the landscape, with a small enough area, that the searcher could find the chest.

      • Hi Poisonivey, I’m thinking that if the Blaze is a feature on the landscape, that funnels a searcher into a smaller area. That searchers might head by the most direct route to the smaller area to search, and at that point, having left the poem, because to them the search area seemed obvious? IMO

  46. I have found this blaze at the end of my solve. This is from google maps that is not altered. Unfortunately I do not think I will ever be able to get boots on ground though due to family constraints. I really believe my solve is right on. https://ibb.co/0Fgt8nt

    • I would just say, if you feel that strong about your solve, where there is a will there is a way. Not that I know your situation. But in my life when I thought there was no way a door open, but I had to make it happen. Kind of like Moses and Noah. If they had not put a foot forward nothing would of happen. Go to work on it, and be ready.

      • You are correct. It comes down to family and funds. I wish I had more time to get away from work. I could bring family but then the more funds are needed and the more time off (my vacation time with family is actually scheduled for visiting other family on the east coast in 2019). If I lived closer to my solve it would be a no-brainer. I’m jealous of seekers who live near their solves! Definitely will try to look for other possible avenues to get to my location.

    • good find time to go see if you can find that spot in real life it is possible i once found a mountain of white courts crystal like that fun is where you find it but you must look ty for the share be safe

    • Don’t rely on a Google Earth shadow when you know it will change with the sun.
      Just for the heck of it, go there and see what you found is nothing like a picture even if it’s 12 feet away.

    • John,
      Before you make plans, ask yourself this about your blaze. Will or can it be altered by nature, will it stand the test of time. If you are sure your blaze is capable of that, good luck to you and your family.
      -B

      • From what I see from multiple mappings it is a rock formation that casts this shadow. I have looked back in map timelines and even in the old grainy satellite pics it is still there. As long as the rock formation stays it will be there for a long time. It has hits all my criteria of distance with BOTG from a hike standpoint and distance off my hike line to where the blaze is. I have kept all poem line solves very concrete and to the point and have map documentation for each clue. Just like FF says you need to know where you are going to before you head off. Even my super non-believing wife was totally amazed at each line solve.

        • Hi John,
          Is there any recognizable land markers at 200 and 500 feet from your blaze that people visit frequently? If there are none, I think your blaze is not the right solution, because Fenn mentioned about that distances and some searchers who were able to get that close.
          — MK

          • John your blaze could be the right solution, as good as any others possibly better since no one has found the blaze or the TC.

          • Yes, very possible searches have been near this area. It is accessible to anyone and has many possible prominent features. The funny thing is I didn’t go looking for the blaze. I was just going through my thoughts of how long the hike FF would have taken and then looked around that area and this just happened to be in the area sweet spot.

        • John, A blaze can be many things and sizes, from white markings on an animals face, to a out cropping of white rock, burnt forest that has been blazed or blaze of a fire or light. Aspen golden blaze, does the blaze take you to an exact location that narrows your search area. Remember the 10 x 10 box is a small target in the wilderness. Good luck

          • John P. Youre probably closer than anybody else on here. I know what you mean about BOTG. I wont ever do BOTG either but I do want to go to Yellowstone some day now. On my bucket list

          • John the books tell you what the blaze is read and think memorize the poem read books CLINT

  47. What if the blaze is a marker he carved out into a tree. And the treasure is at the base of the tree. It would be somethi g very easy for someone to walk by especially if they are looking for a shadow or rock formation. Remember. If you are wise and in the wood

  48. Every visual item that is indicated/suggested by a clue probably needs to be very durable,
    in order for the poem to be valid for hundreds or thousands of years. This would certainly
    include the blaze. So I’m not thinking of an electric lightbulb, a mark on a tree, or a blazer
    that some guy is wearing. Of course, your opinion may differ. As always, IMO.

    • Hi tighterfocus,
      I’m thinking in the same line of thought. It better be one of the geological features – a small mound, a standalone rock formation, a different color layer prominently shown on a vertical rock or mountain surface which can be seen from a far, for example.
      — MK

    • I have definitely been down this road, and honestly still like it, especially as it relates to wet quartz which can be brilliantly blinding in the noon sun.

    • That puts the day of the year *and* the time of day into play, doesn’t it. Just like shadows, reflections will change with the hourly and daily/seasonal movement of the sun.

      Really limits the opportunities to spot the blaze. And puts a considerable burden on the poem to communicate to you not only the right viewing spot, but also the right time of the right day(s).

      Not to mention cloudy and even partly cloudy days.

      I don’t think Hank done it that way.

      [unless that’s the secret message of his “spring break” comment – “the sun don’t shine that way that week”]

      JK

      • not only considerable pressure on the poem, but also any ability to find the blaze in 1000 yrs, the rotation of the earth is slowing, and wobbling, the tilt is constantly changing, causing “permanent” sun dials to no longer show what they are supposed to show slightly every year. adding up to inches eventually, then feet…

        also earth/soil/rock movement also cancels out many “permanent” sun shadows, like earthquakes and settling/ erosion.. basically that type of idea will not last “thousands” of years, may not even last one thousand years.

        • Writis,
          The movement of the poles had been about 10cm a year until about 15 years ago when it reversed direction and started moving at a rate of 17cm/year. Even if it continues at the higher rate and maintains the direction that it’s going it would take 650,000 years for it to change the tilt of the earth by one degree. In a few thousand years span the amount that a sundial changes wouldn’t be detectable by eye. I think that worrying about details like this won’t help.

          • I didn’t take into account precession, which changes at a faster rate. But that would only change the time of year that alignments happen.

          • JW, you only used one of the pieces of the changes, you need to add in all of the changes… the number you used is off by factors of 100’s just one of the precessions causes a 1.38 degree change every century, and you can see the results easily in several civilizations representations of the very concept of the alignment that no longer makes structures show what they wanted, and we are talking 100’s of years and 1000’s of years. just the effect of the earth’s bulge from the moon/sun, has 500 times greater effect.

            Basically the wobble is far greater than the figure you are using..

          • Writis, does precession affect how the sun lines up with fixed objects on earth? As I understand it the main change in alignment is how the stars line up with the equinoxes. So how the stars and the sun align is changing, but I’m not sure the alignment of only the sun is changing much provided your calendar takes precession into account.

            If someone really knows astronomy and wants to weigh in I would welcome it.

          • edit “the main change in alignment *due to precession* is how the stars line up with the equinoxes”.

        • Ha!
          Seems the alignment of the pyramids, Stonehenge, and many other megaliths work rather well after 4000 plus years. The temple of Kukukan, chicken itzta still depicts the serpent slithering down the stairway thousands of years after it was built.
          I simple rock formation can do the same.

          But if ya like to go back about 26,000 years. The Sahara desert was an ocean, and will be once more in another 26,000 years give or take. Sea creatures lay next to ancient humans and modern military equipment only separated by time… but the information is there to be seen, and observed. That tilt you’re talking about does realign. It’s not “permanent”… it just take time.

          If a major Earthquake hide the fenn’s special spot? a landslide?… well, someone once asked me if a meteor hits how could fenn predict that?… My answer was; If one hits again, do ya really care about finding the chest?
          So, If a mountain collapse on the chest from an earthquake, are you going to dig for it?

          Does “thinking down the road” have no thought at all to the solve at all?

          • Seeker: “Seems the alignment of the pyramids, Stonehenge, and many other megaliths work rather well after 4000 plus years.”

            If one were to actually know the starting alignment, and now today’s alignment, that assessment would be shown to be far from accurate.

      • Jak, ~’That puts the day of the year *and* the time of day into play, doesn’t it. Just like shadows, reflections will change with the hourly and daily/seasonal movement of the sun.’

        Does “planning” come to mind?
        How about “observing”?
        “but” means in addition to ~”Tarry” literally means to linger, ~ “Scant” means little or ‘minimal’ and can include time. ~
        Gaze means ‘look steadily,’ ‘study’… We have been told the blaze is a clue {although some think differently}
        So what does the blaze do you us? If it doesn’t seemingly point NSEW, line of thinking [ maybe doesn’t point in any direct by itself]. Or fenn never took a radius off the blaze… so a measurement or an exact distances doesn’t seem to be relevant beforehand…

        How about the RM’s are still moving and will have an impact on the clues hundreds of years down the road…
        And, if you can find the blaze the distance would be obvious…
        That alone is a bit strange, right? IF the chest is not directly under the blaze… what in the poem explains how it would be obvious, of any distance, to something hidden and won’t be stumble upon?

        ~follow the clues ‘precisely’ doesn’t sound like close is good enough… we may have to be that exact, and why natural land uplift or movement will have an impact as time goes on [ we may need to adjust for that, in theory]. And may need to be with precises with each clue. Like he said; the finder will have to “earn it”. Not feel lucky.
        Over 20 years from first thought to finalizing the hiding of the chest… that’s dedication… I would think the same effort would be needed to truly understand what is involved [not time invested, but thinking]. Especially when the guy who created the clues seemingly followed his own clues “when he” hid the chest.

        How easy do ya’ll want to simplify the time fenn put into it all this, and warns, it’s difficult but not impossible.
        Having the same opportunity doesn’t automatically say anyone can accomplish the correct solve.

        LOL– especially when clues have been indicated [deciphered, solved] and apparently not known they were [by fenn’s account], while passing by, went by, walked by all the other clues and the chest.

        I think fenn has been on the up and up with his comments. I don’t apply to that 85% thing just to make my solve workable. But that’s just me.

        You said; ‘Really limits the opportunities to spot the blaze. I disagree.’ I think the poem’s job is to leads to the blaze, however, the blaze still needs to be utilized in some manner to answer how an unknown distance to the hide can be accomplished… this might be the “planning and observation” part we are told to do
        Or the blaze is nothing more than a marker that sits on top of the chest… and all we need to plan for is, bring extra socks and watch out for mud puddles.

        • Hey-O, Seek’ –

          1 – Kelly suggested – “I think the blaze is a reflection of the sun off of something.”

          2 – I responded, in part – “Really limits the opportunities to spot the blaze. And puts a considerable burden on the poem to communicate to [us] not only the right viewing spot, but also the right time of the right day(s).”

          3 – You responded – “I disagree.”

          Leave aside for the moment the unfortunate searcher who gets to Kelly’s exact right spot on a cloudy day.

          Take two other searchers who also reach that exact right spot, and both, luckily, on sunny days.

          One’s there at noon on or about the 4th of July. The other at 4pm on or about Labor Day.

          Those two sunny-day searchers are going to have *very* different observation experiences of “the reflection of the sun off of something,” no?

          I’m open to discussion, commentary, debate and disagreement. So can you offer more specific grounds for disagreement of my assessment of Kelly’s suggestion?

          I mean, more specific than simply re-paraphrasing “there is no substitute for thinking and planning and observing and looking at maps, unless it’s the desire to keep it simple.”

          Discussions here are already us “thinking and planning and observing” out loud. Sometimes even while trying to keep it simple, since that’s possibly an acceptable substitute (supplement?).

          Jake

          • JA,
            I agree that it doesnt make a lot of sense that the blaze requires the sun to shine on it. However, I firmly believe the poem tells us that the blaze is something related to the sun/something with sun in the name. Sun Peak is not the answer but is one imaginary example to illustrate.

            Regarding the FF quote, “No substitute for. . . desire to keep it simple.”
            This statement makes no sense. Sorry Forrest. Has anyone considered that “IT” may be simple, even though the poem is not?

    • “If you don’t know where the first clue is, you might as well stay home because you’re not going to find the treasure chest. You can’t go out looking for the blaze and expect to find the treasure chest. There are 10 billion blazes out there. So you have to start with the first clue and let it take you to the blaze.”

      • Yep, ken.
        But it doesn’t hurt to think about what needs to be done after discovering the first clue.
        Either there is more to thinking and analyzing the clues and possibility, or we all suck as reading maps, even when on site with clue looking right at us.
        I think there is not only the idea of; figuring out what clues refer to, but why or how they were picked and/or used…

        That, and BIWWWH has kicked my ass so far… as well as what hints of riches new and old might be. I don’t adhere to the simplistic thoughts new and old are the chest and contents… they don’t seem to have anything to do with the fenn’s special place.

          • Hmm, OK…
            Lets look at it this way. But clearyour head of any fact you know of… this of it as just having the poem recently found with no other info.
            I think stanza one explains someone [fenn] has gone in somewhere and discovered what he considers treasures, something he calls all his own, and important to him, alone. This is why the place it special to him. “have gone’ alone in there, to be with his treasures. Call it his personal club house if ya like.
            When he say; “hint of riches new and old” I think he’s talking about the place and the items he place there for the challenge/prize to go and find him [ but we don’t know what the items are yet, we’re not even sure it there is a challenge yet… however the old in this thought is the location itself. The other hints of the challenge.

            The you are told to begin something.. followed by descriptions that seem to tie into landscapes [ waters, canyon, a placed call Brown, a creek HLnWH.. then told of a blaze… “something different” and if we find this blaze to do something for our quest to cease. Ok, realistically, this is the first we now know there is a quest, a challenge, something to look for… with what seems to be ‘added instructions’ once this blaze thing is located. And now, we are told of a chest.
            So far we have hints about things old and new, descriptions of an area, a blaze that must be found, and a chest.
            Then we are told of someone who left a ‘trove”… now things are picking up… a trove is of value with no ownership. So we have the idea that the trove is a chest.
            Now we have this four line little ending that is puzzling all by itself.
            Hear me all and listen good your effort will be worth the cold if you are brave and in the wood i give you title to the gold.

            What have we learn from that little four line ending. Well, there’s gold involved, a trove of gold, in a chest, secreted [ hidden ] near what we is needed to be found.. a blaze. BUT, this little four line ending in this poem is a riddle itself.
            hear, listen good, effort will be worth the cold, brave, in the wood. What the heck does all that mean [ keep in mind this little exercise, all we have is this poem ]
            Well, to understand stanza six, done’t we need to know it exist-?- with that information?

            Someone wnet some where “in there” the only real reference to ‘in’ anywhere is ‘in the wood”
            Not woods.. wood. What does wood refer to? is that not a riddle?.. then we have brave added with it, “Brave and in the Wood”… what’s brave all about? The definition of wood is petrified wood. Is brave an idea of petrified as to a location?

            But wait the poem stated; begin it where warm waters halt… so what kinda connection is there to where warm water halt to petrified wood?

            See the idea is you can’t ‘just’ concentrate on a single line ” begin it where warm waters halt” and magically the answer is in your head… other factors int the poem should, by all counts, be know to help understand how to read the poem’s landscape.. it mapping of that landscape, that will bring you to a blaze that will have a chest of gold near by, left by someone who gave it to you for your wise efforts. And inside, you find out who, when, why and how this all came into play.

            So now the challenge is on… we have to understand certain pieces of information to located this blaze to find a trove. and as explain above… the “riddle” seem to be in the last stanza that might kick start it all at WWWH. thinking the right thoughts.

            LOL in theory.

          • Seeker…No one is going to find the treasure with just the poem and no other info/backstory, so that negates your first comment almost entirely where you started *… having the poem recently found with no other info.* I will say that I agree that the content of the *entire* poem needs to be read and deciphered to find the location of the first clue and beyond. I believe that is a given. The thing that still nags at me is the *backstory* part of the equation. Just how far is a searcher supposed to dig(metaphorically)? What if we did not have the luxury/burden of all of Fenn’s later ATF, SB etc.? Would the equation be easier?

            Also you spoke of *riches new and old* and *chest*, *treasures* and *trove*. All of which equate to the poem relaying a message of hidden treasure and perhaps the importance of the location? I’m not sure about the *importance* of the *location* per se… other than it being where the treasure is. As far as **trove** goes…. yes, it is a hidden treasure. The placement of that word *trove* indicates to me that the finder has or should have discovered it by that point in the poem. That’s what makes it a trove. Until then, it is still just a hidden treasure. Usually a trove is something that has been *discovered*.

            Anyway…back to the *blaze* humdrum….

          • ken,
            At one point in your post you state that the *entire* poem needs to be solved/deciphered to find the first clue. Then later you say that you think that the chest will be found once you’ve solved up to “trove”. If you’re looking for signifiers in the poem for Indulgence how about “the gold”, which is consistent with the idea that that the entire poem is needed. Also “the gold” to me sounds like a more concrete/tangible thing than “treasures new and old” and “my trove”.

            I like your idea of the ATFs being a luxury/burden. There’s something there but buyer beware.

          • Hey JW… my comment was a bit choppy in response to Seeker’s theory. I did say clearly though that I agree that the content of the *entire* poem needs to be read and deciphered to find the location of the first clue and beyond. This was a direct response to Seeker spelling out what a reader of the poem may interpret from reading through the poem. His was a response to my short quip about thinking too much beyond the first clue. This comment from me was just a blanket statement about all of the years of discussions about blazes and all of the theories pertaining to the blaze… and then about Fenn’s comments pertaining to the blaze. I just see his comments about that subject as meaning… *don’t sweat it until you get there*. I think that is how that is going to play out… you’ll know it when you get there…. to the correct location/place.

            My other about *trove* was more about how I read the poem. By the time the word trove appears in the poem, I believe the finder has found it… that is what makes it a *trove*. The discovery has been made. I agree…the mention of gold sure makes it tangible…and Fenn has just officially given it to you if you made it that far! AHH now about all those pesky ATF, SB, videos… they sure give a good look at the man and what he kinda sorta thinks.

          • Right, because we need the “location” first.
            Not just the location of WWH reference, but all the clues. IMO once the location is known, then the idea of being half way there begins. Once we have the first clue’s reference, in the correct location, we have the starting point.

            Think of it this way… we’re told there are many WWH in the RM’s.. warm waters halt is a clue reference fenn is using, be it a lake , rivers clouds, whatever it refers to are ‘all the same’… it doesn’t matter which guess is correct… we need to nail down the correct one by “certainty of the location beforehand”

            Some may argue “warm waters halt” can be more than one thing -in- fenn’s comment… I say it can’t.. he was referring to the clues and the poem… a certain ‘reference’ to ‘his created clue.’

            ~ warns; the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the “location” beforehand.
            This, I think is how we nail down the one and only, out of the many… the same reference, of the many.
            In my suggested theory above, I used the idea of wood as a reference to “in there” and added references for Meek and Brave as an idea of where “in there” could refer to being the same location.
            This would give a ‘location’ idea of the clues.

            If we take it a step further and ask the book to help… ‘Forrest Fire’ burned a national forest, line of thinking… a map, possible a good map… with the “right” details?… “Brave and in the wood”?

            Even with this idea. the first clue’s reference still hasn’t kick out much for me. Maybe because there are so many ideas, I’m not thinking the right thought about it. Yet, we need a place, a location first and foremost, to nail down the correct “one”

            OK.. IF [example only] a waterfall is in fact WWWH… where the heck are you going to look for that.. in the four remaining states.. in different venues of NPs, NFs, Public land, Private land, Reservations etc etc.?
            We need a “location” to be certain of having the correct first clue’s reference. out of all the same waterfalls, or whatever the first clue actually refers to.

            IF this method is correct, those early searchers only seems to guess a good guess on what WWH is, but never understood the “significance of where they were” – “the location” to understand later clues… going by everything with blinders on.
            Hence we need to have some idea of what the poem is relaying to even git the gist of the correct first clue reference. “All the information to find the chest is in the poem”

            Otherwise, all that is being down is; picking a good guess for the first clue and running to four states to give it a try. And yes some, several, more than several, have done just that in the correct location… Only, they just didn’t know ‘why’ this ‘particular location,’ and stomped their boots until the shoestring snapped.

            They were target fixated on a 10″ sq piece of land, and not the location of the land itself [geography of the land] and it significance to the poem’s ‘created clue references’.. so you need to know what that might be to nail down the first clue… out of the many… all over the RM’s

            In theory…….

          • Seeker has perfectly hit the nail on the head. I have been researching for a little over two years and I believe that I have solved the BWWWH by trying to understand the reasoning behind that starting point and not just picking any old spot. Others will also have their reasoning as well but do the rest of the clues follow smoothly. If they don’t then I think they might be off. Once I believed I had the right spot, all the other clues fell right into place. Not necessarily all at once since I wanted to make sure each line made sense. I even would stop thinking about it for a couple months and get back to it with fresh thoughts. This has led me to the possible blaze area that I put on the pic. Could this be the spot where I have to search around, who knows. Only being at the blaze area and finding it or not. If not, then I believe BWWWH is going to be real tough to find. Just my opinion.

          • Hi John;

            I couldn’t help but notice that both times, you typed BWWWH instead of B IT WWWH – You left out the “I” – Am wondering why. Just an observation – JDA

          • JDA, Sorry about that. Just trying to type fast since I was going to reply a bit more than usual.

      • ***Astronomers estimate there are about 100 thousand million stars in the Milky Way alone***…that’s a lot of blazes out there fo shizzle.

          • ok ill bite with the brain cells i have left Forrest has said its something that marks the spot cant be man made because he has said its not under a man made object a blaze could be a mark on a tree a branding iron a glass jar or how about a chillie pepper bite that and feel the blaze the end of a rifle a bright light. a big rock that was used to find the way a dears nose that ones fun the one in the tall tree either way i believe you must look up before you look quickly down just my two cents

        • Hi Sandy,
          I think you should only choose as your blaze which you can see either with Google map or the street view.
          — MK

          • Ya, right.
            Fenn’s objective was to get people out of the woods and away from nature to find your blaze on a computer.

  49. MajinKing,
    The poem tells you what the blaze is IMO.

    BTW- im so confused about your handle/online name on this site. Is it your actual name? Or what does it mean?

    • Hi Flutterby,
      According to your theory what is the blaze do you think the poem tells you?

      I’m pretty sure you’re not a butterfly. Is that an answer to your question? You don’t have to be confused by my online name. Someone’s name doesn’t always have to mean anything. Just reply with a comment or two about my comments when and if those are confusing you in search of the treasure. I’ll gladly give more reasons or thoughts or explanation about my comments. I think that’s why we all contribute to this discussion on this site – helping yourself and other searchers to find the treasure. Don’t you think so?

      — MK

      • MK,
        Yes. I believe the poem tells you what the blaze is.

        Sorry I asked about your name. Lots of people ask me why I chose Flutterby. Others have chase related names and I just found your name to be interesting and was curious. I apologize.

        Yes- poem tells us blaze IMO

        • Hi Flutterby,
          I accept your apology.

          To tell you the truth “majin” is the name I used when I was young, not for others to call me, but for me to call myself. I added “king” to it hoping that when and if I am the lucky one to find the treasure chest, I may call myself to be the king of the chase.

          Anyway, could you share your thought on the blaze told by the poem, not the particular location or landmark, but at least the kind and/or the shape of it? Or hint of it? Thanks.

          — MK

  50. I am still relatively new to this, so apologies if this has been discussed (or beaten to death), but I’ve been thinking the blaze could be a tree. Not a mark on a tree, but the tree itself. Specifically, as its leaves change color in the fall. From what I understand, quaking aspens make quite the display during autumn and are found in some areas of the Rocky Mountains, particularly Wyoming and Montana. Moreover, the tree-as-blaze theory could be supported by the line, “your effort will be worth the cold” as it would require cooler weather for the leaves to change and display the blaze of color. Maybe searching during a specific time of year in order for the blaze to be visible is what Forrest meant by, “What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve.” Searchers could be within 200 feet and not even realize they were looking at the blaze; they would need to be rather wise and certain of the location and the path to it. Lastly, a tree could be described as “not impossible to remove” but it wouldn’t be “feasible to try.” Again, I apologize if this is not a unique thought.

    • Oh, and I forgot to include this. According to this page on the Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks website (link below), quaking aspens are found “along the Rocky Moun­tains as far south as New Mexico.” It also states: “In Montana, quaking aspen are found throughout the western and central parts of the state at elevations between 5,000 and 10,000 feet.”

      I find that interestingly close to the elevation range that Forrest gave for the treasure!

      http://fwp.mt.gov/mtoutdoors/HTML/articles/portraits/quakingaspen.htm

      • Hi Eric! I think you should follow this path! One of the main reasons for me to keep an eye on those Aspens is the term „in the wood“ since Aspens appear in colonies of clones who share the root system!
        To add a hint from an atf Alfalfa likes to grow in between Aspens…

        • TLo,
          I’ve been looking at this same thing for over a year now. Go big or go home? Although this location is not in the search states anymore it still stands out due to the fact that Forrest has his “F” burnt into an aspen!

          Fishlake National Forest • The leaves of the Pando aspen grove glow in the low sunshine of an October afternoon. The straight, vertical trunks repeat into the distance like a house of mirrors, and under a backlit canopy of foliage, Pando feels at once infinite and enclosed.

          For 106 acres on the southwest bank of Fish Lake in Sevier County, a single root system unites this forest. Pando is the biggest aspen “clone” ever identified, the single most massive living organism known on Earth.

          Though little known in Utah, Pando has gained fame as a tourist destination and as a symbol of sustainability and interconnectedness.

          Carry on TLo!

    • Eric, what you say is true to a point. As you go up the mountain side there are different tree lines. The aspen certainly put off a gold display up against the higher dark timber tree line, but it is everywhere. The blaze is suppose narrow down the search area to a small area and the aspen just don’t do that. I believe ff would have said some thing about the correct season, like he did about not searching in the winter. This poem is a mix, match, and eliminate affair. It has been said many time here and other sites, solve the clues in order and don’t jump ahead. One must lead to the next. Have fun and good luck with your Chase

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