The Blaze…

yellow

This is the place to discuss the the blaze. What do you think it is? Is it temporary or permanent? Will it be around for a thousand years or doesn’t it matter? Is it easy to spot or difficult? Does the poem tell us what the blaze looks like or what it is?

Nick Lazaredes of SBS-TV’s Dateline in Australia interviewed Forrest in the spring of 2014. Here is Forrest explaining the BLAZE.
https://dalneitzel.com/video/audio/blaze.mp3

259 thoughts on “The Blaze…

  1. “While it’s not impossible to remove the blaze it isn’t feasible to try, and I am certain it’s still there.” –Forrest 9/26/2014

    • IF it’s manmade, a great fit is a USGS marker:
      1. Markers are a kind of blaze.
      2. It will last hundreds of years.
      3. It could be removed but not without difficulty and tools [and getting arrested if caught!]
      4. Forrest could reasonably assert that “it’s still there”.

      But … I researched hundreds of such markers in the “good” search areas in multiple states, and none seemed to be in likely-to-match-the-clues locations. Could be a marker that wasn’t in the GE database, though.

          • The question is “What kind of a box?” How about a “Box Canyon?” – Just musin’ – JDA

        • Hi JDA: Icebox Canyon in eastern Yellowstone is even better. Warm waters eventually halt in an Icebox (for all practical purposes), and it seems like a good place for your effort to be worth the cold. 😉

          • yep… and Amphitheater mountain is right there close to bring in “hear me all and listen good”.
            🙂

          • there are a few of these ice box canyons but i think it is a mineral base of some sort of solid good day to all, there is a blanket of snow out side, so I think ill curl up with a warm book ttotc is my first choice be safe out there

  2. I always thought the blaze is the sunrise over the mountains at 10,200 ft. When it just winks at you the shadows move across down the mountain it will lead one to the path one seeks.

    • Tracy, the blaze is a clue. Remember, searchers have been to the first two clues and walked right by the other 7. You cannot walk by the sun, or the sunrise. But your analogy does, IMO, come into play, just at another time, or clue. IMO, it’s like Indiana Jones in the map room. Hold up a staff, the sun at a certain elevation will cast a shadow. (IMO, early morning, 7′ stick shaped like a “Y”, sun at 5 degrees, gives a shadow)easy to figure out how far the shadow is.

      • I have been talking about HOB and the blaze being related to the sun for a long time. When I say this, I do not mean the actual sun. I am talking about a natural formation that is suggestive of the sun.

        Interestingly, the natural formation does create a shadow, but not in the same way the sun shining creates a shadow. The formation is a creation of a shadow of the past.

        It took me a while, but I think I have discovered something. I think the fact that FF was busy making bells and jars while his wife was watching Dancing With The Stars is an interesting hint to HOB and the blaze.

        Another interesting hint IMO is the fact that FFs boss that fired him from selling newspapers was driving a big yellow caddilac. Personally, I am not entirely sure FF ever sold newspapers. I think the newspapers are a metaphor and a fascinating one actually. I think that when FF told us that its not what the bligs say, but rather what they whisper, I think he is talking about the shadow of the past and not the internet blogs.

        I believe there is another hint to HOB and the blaze in the chapter about the gypsies. Ive blanked out on the title of that story in TTOTC. But the hint is where FF lays in the tall grass behind the wagon wheel and watches the flames dancing while the girls dance around the campfire.

        This story about the gypsies dancing around the campfire is the very same story as the painting FF traded for his gallery- the one with the fairies dancing around the rock. Different people and places, but the story is the same story.

        All IMO

        • I don’t know if the sun has something to do with the hoB or the blaze, but, when I think of sun dance or dancing with the stars, I’m drawn to the Bighorn Medicine Wheel. There are offerings still left at the site today. Mostly, those offerings are bells. If you put Dr Eddy’s diagram over the wheel, you get an arrow pointing a certain direction. The tip of that arrow being the “F” cairn. If you sit in the middle of the wheel and extend a tangent line that follows that arrow, you go right thru the 24th spoke. This creates a 22 degree angle, which can be referenced by “his rainbow”, or a rainbow halo, 22 degrees.
          It seems to form a map to, IMO, a bell. The one on page 137.
          When I think of the shadow, I reference: knowlege, Skippy standing, and “right straight” comment. This involves the key, the 9th clue, the word that is key, and the time given in the 24th line. For me.

          It all is within 200′ of each other, the final clues. Even though the sun cannot be a clue, it still has something to do with the chase, IMO. And, if that is the case, most likely it’s light must reflect from something. If you believe that a shadow has anything to do with anything.

          As far as the Gypsies, there is also a hint in the pic itself. Just look at the fire and her dress, obvious something there. Maybe dancing around, wheel, fire, stars, and campfire are the hint in that story. Again, the wheel. All possible, so I’m with you flutterby, maybe not seeing the same way but seeing that these possible hints will play a role. Who knows, but seeing where that med. wheel points, there goes Colorado and New Mexico…:) Southwest Montana, Northwest Wyoming. But that’s IMO…

          • Poisonivy,
            What in the poem tells you to go to a medicine wheel? IMO, something in the poem has got to tell you to go there.

            I think the sun itself is HOB, but you have to know the representative land feature on the map. “If you’e been wise and found the blaze” then you will have wisely identied WWWH and the adjacent HOB.

            IMO

          • Flutter, I have alpha/numeric numbers. There are primary values and secondary values. When I add those two values, (the alpha/numeric coming from the poem only), I get 137. (80 and 57).
            That takes a searcher to pg 137 in the book. I would have to find notes to go into detail, but, dancing with the stars, bells, etc… landed me to research medicine wheels. In researching Medicine wheels, of course, you find yourself at Bighorn. In solving the Medicine Wheel, a map is formed, pointing to “X”. For me, it ends up right at the spot my 8th clue is. That is why I say there is a bell on the path. All from the alpha/numeric values from the poem.
            It is outside info mostly, and read as much. The Med Wheel is not a clue to the chest, it is a hint to a bell, IMO, gathered from the poem, and may be a hint to “X”. It is not part of my path, but it does have a lot of support from the book and the poem.

            I don’t know how the hoB would be “adjacent” to wwwh would be if hoB is the sun, I would think in that scenario, we would have all been fried by 4 billion years ago, but if you mean the sun’s rays, possible. From what you are saying, it looks like you have all the clues very close to each other. Also, the hoB is not a clue. I would agree with the later. HOB is not a clue. I think clues 4-9 are close to each other, but 1,2, and 3 are some distance away, IMO.

          • P.I.

            You say: Also, the hoB is not a clue. I would agree with the later. HOB is not a clue. – If hoB is not a clue why is it in the poem, and why does Forrest mention it so often – like saying that if you knew hoB you could go directly to the chest (Paraphrasing) or that if you find hoB that you could reverse engineer back to WWWH?

            Not being a clue, and for me an important clue, boggles my mind – but that is just me I guess – JDA

          • JDA, it is to vague of a statement. If you could go right to the chest by the 8th line in the poem, that seems a little quick.
            He has mentioned a lot of things in the poem, doesn’t make them clues. Plus, if you could go right to the chest , then hoB is not a structure. If it is not a structure, then what possibly could you find to say, “I now need to put in”?
            It’s to early in the poem, to vague of a statement, and an obvious place to look for a clue. That’s why it is not, IMO.

          • And JDA, like I’ve been saying, if you find the end spot, you could reverse engineer to find the start or wwwh. That would hold true for hoB also.

          • PoisonIvey;

            How is hoB too vague of a clue? We are told to begin it at wwwh – a findable place. We are told to take a canyon down – a findable place. We are told to go a certain distance – Not far, but too far to walk. Although somewhat obscure, definable (within a certain margin of error). We are then told to “put in” below the hoB. If you have correctly found the wwwh, the canyon and the distance, finding something that could be a hoB is very precise – NOT vague at all.

            IF you have not found the correct wwwh, you will not find the correct canyon and yes – hoB will be vague to YOU because of your miscalculation at not finding the correct wwwh. Not being critical just being analytical and logical.

            Eliminating a clue as being vague, just because you can’t find it seems a bit weak to me. Again, not being critical, just telling it like I see it, with an analytical and logical approach – but I am sure that I COULD be wrong, and just as sure that you COULD be right – It just does not look that way to me. Good luck with your search – hope I was not too harsh

            #2, you say that:- “If you could go right to the chest by the 8th line in the poem, that seems a little quick.” – Not 8th line, but 12th line since “begin” and 16th line from start of poem – That’s 2/3rds of the poem – leaving only 8 lines – I don’t consider that quick. I did NOT say that if you find hoB you are AT the treasure chest. Forrest was the one who referenced hoB and chest – see next item.

            #3 = you then say: “Plus, if you could go right to the chest , then hoB is not a structure.” How do you make this connection? Forrest was the one who said that if he were to tell you what hoB was – the searcher could go right to the chest. What does this statement (by Forrest) have to do with it being a structure or not? It make no sense.

            You continue: ” If it is not a structure, then what possibly could you find to say, “I now need to put in”?” ” Why does it have to be a structure (which Forrest is reported to have said it is NOT) in order for you to know where to put in. An incline leading to a body of water could be a put-in or take-out point – Just an incline that a vehicle and a trailer with a boat on it could go up or down – NOT a wooden ramp. It could even be a landmark of some kind. A hill, a group of trees – anything that you would notice and somehow equate to the name “Brown” could be a hoB.

            #4 if it is “It’s to early in the poem, to vague of a statement, and an obvious place to look for a clue” – If it is an obvious place to look for a clue, why eliminate it? True, hoB is at the 8th line, I did NOT say that hoB was AT the Treasure Chest, or that the treasure chesat was at hoB. Read Forrest’s statement.

            I do not find a location where I think Indulgence is until line 16 which is 2/3rds of the way through the poem. Again read Forrest’s quote. I am NOT equating hoB with where Indulgence is. Forrest says that IF he were to tell you what hoB is, you would go directly to Indulgence. He DOES NOT say that they are at the same place.

            Again, sorry, I just can not buy your logic. Again, good luck with your solve.

            If you are going to say something like “It is too vague” or “Too early in the poem” – please give us the courtesy of a bit of an explanation – Thanks – Again, sorry if I came across too harshly – JDA

          • Poison IV

            Are you aware your solve is exactly the same as another chaser?

            A well known cimmemtor on this very blog?

            I wonder if he is seeing this?

            Shocking.

            Lugnutz

          • Hi Ken –

            I figured it out reading other comments.

            That would be a first. I have never seen two identical solves.

            Also, I don’t know how much Charlie has shared publicly, so I didn’t name him.

            Cheers!

        • Poisionivey ~’This creates a 22 degree angle, which can be referenced by “his rainbow”, or a rainbow halo, 22 degrees.’

          It’s actually 42. The idea as been talked about immensely in connection to ‘fenn’s rainbow’ and the exact told weight of the chest and contents. On factor that is interesting is; the T in “treasure” is 42 letters and spaces from the A in As. Other thing mentioned, 265 coins for example seem to have some connections [ depending on how one looks at the wheel ] In fact, there are many types of connection to the clues in references to the information with the wheel; season, solstice, animals, directional pointers, colors, times of day, stars, birth, death etc etc.
          The possible connection to the “location” of the clues ‘references’ could be in stanza 5 as “tired and weak” or in this idea- Tired as in wheel, Weak as in Medicine man/Shaman.

          The other thing you mentioned is; ‘there goes NM CO…’
          The Big Horn medicine wheel is not the only wheel. In fact the many wheels found over a large area [ US {into NM} and Southern Canada ] create a mega wheel, if you will. Kinda thinking along the lines: a map is a map, the more detailed a map the better if you have the ‘right’ map. And/or getting all the lines to cross… looking at the Big Picture. While it would be fun to attempt an idea like this, the problem I would have is fenn ‘following the clues when he hid the chest’… a single wheel location, might work, the larger idea doesn’t seem so.

          Where was I? oh! right… 42 is the degree of the sun angle that the light from the sun reflects at to create the rainbow affect.

          • Nope Seeker, can you believe you are wrong on this one? A rainbow Halo is a phenomenon in the mountains when “ice crystals”, high in the atmosphere, reflect light. Not water like a regular rainbow. The rainbow halo is seen at 22 degrees. And remember, I call it “your Medicine Wheel” since you reminded me of Med wheels a while back in an email. And funny you mention the coins in the chest. It turns out that my 8th clue, where I think a bell is, happens to be 265 miles from the center of the med wheel, straight thru the 24th spoke, which is at 22 degrees. And I know you don’t get into my alpha/numeric values, but, Forrest Fenn, if you remember, is 14,8. Remember, pages in the book, but also 22. “His” rainbow, 22 degrees.
            And yes, I know regular rainbows are at 42 degrees, but in the chase, rainbow halos are what should be researched.
            Actually, I consider the wheel as outside, support info. It’s not part of my path, but there is a reference to all his stories. It’s good support info, checks and balances if you will, seeing how it’s coins in the chest miles away, that non-clue of coins, gives reason why he said 265 instead of just saying what he had in the book, hundreds of coins. Saying hundreds still gets his point across, but he has remembered and stuck to 265.
            This has got to be one of the times I’ve seen you slip.:). Correcting 22 degrees without researching. lol, Maybe you don’t know this is Charlie, changed my handle for Aaron. Or you may not have questioned the Med Wheel, since you know you had something to do with me going back over old notes, looking at med wheels. No matter, just remember, rainbow halos, 22 degrees.

          • I’m not an astronomer; but A rainbow Halo is some thing you see around a moon or the sun, or a planet, right? To see one around earth you must be cleared for take off, because it can only be see from high up… at 22 degrees
            Standing on the ground a rainbow is viewed at 42 degrees… rainbow arch.

            LOL where are ya hunting?
            I have a great solve for Mars… WWH at mar’s [loss of atmosphere] surface and take it in the largest know canyon in the solar system, NF, but a heck of a walk if, your space suit has a lot of O2. I dare say it’s no place for the meek and just heavy loads [ mars ] and water high [Earth] align just right to discover the blaze.. the mountain size Mar’s face

          • I gotta say Seeker, I was watching that show, acts of science. They were in the mountains, and from the ground, at 22 degrees, (from what they said) a rainbow halo was seen with dog tags. It’s not from water molecules, it’s from ice crystals that reflect the rainbow effect. After research, it was verified, seen at a 22 degree angle from ice crystals high in the atmosphere. I wouldn’t lie to you.

            Water molecules are lower in the atmosphere, when sun light reflects off of them, the rainbow effect is at 42 degrees. Makes sense, higher crystals equal a lower angle. Lower water equals higher angle.

            Really doesn’t matter, it’s the statement of HIS rainbow, his name being what we’ve discussed before, and a 22 degree angle being formed. It’s the basis of a story or comment. I only post it because there are other rainbows and other degrees to consider, not just 42 degrees. It’s all just hints anyway, no clues here. Checks and balances….

          • adsmith,
            Yes- running through the cemetery was in the Gypsie story. I see that as an important clue to HOB. Also think the description is important when FF describes the flickering lights of the camp fire. Again; HOB IMO

    • 100% natural, IMO. Some supporting evidence: “I said on the Today show that the treasure is not associated with any structure.” — Forrest in Scrapbook 35.

      “Mr. Fenn, when you said not associated with any structure did that mean all 9 clues or just where the chest sits? Thanks, d”

      Forrest: “Yes d, it means the treasure is not hidden in or about a structure. Google “structure” for more information. f”

      Plus, not too many manmade “blazes” can last 100, 1000, 10000 years.

      • Zap,
        By what your quotes & statements are, I believe you think the blaze & treasure are in the same location, correct? I would have to disagree with that because the poem continues further., it doesn’t stop at the blaze. As far as a man made structure goes, the Statue of Liberty gets maintenance, does she not? She’s no Spring chicken!
        -B

      • Birdie: if the blaze is something fairly large — let’s use Norris Geyser Basin as an example — then if the treasure chest was anywhere in that geyser basin, its distance from the blaze would be zero. In this case, knowing the identity of the blaze would be a long way from being able to knowingly, deliberately walk within steps of the treasure chest’s location.

          • Zaphod wrote: “But a man-made blaze that can’t be destroyed or removed? Seems like a tall order.”

            Well it can, but it’s not feasable, right? I do not see why some clues shouldn’t refer to manmade objects just as a result of the chest not being associated to a structure…

            IMO the blaze can be manmade or a natural feature! You definitely cannot exclude manmade structures due to the ATFs above!

          • Zap,
            A geo marker is man-made, and surly can last. It made form the same material as the chest. Removing of the marker seems unreasonable / not feasible as well. Should something like this be a connected to a clue in the poem, I would think the idea of HLnWH might work.
            For example; many markers are attached to large rocks / boulder [ HL ] and may depict detailed information of water level or something about water [ WH ].

            It also might have something to do with the idea; Most of the clue references were around when fenn was a kid… might is be a marker of this sort was places after fenn was born?

          • Hi TLo! Regarding blaze removal, you wrote: “Well it can, but it’s not feasable, right?”

            I’m actually okay with the idea of a geo marker being used as a clue since they aren’t structures. (I’m not using any, but I don’t see a specific ATF that rules them out.) I’d be a little cautious about an overly broad interpretation of “isn’t feasible to try.” Removing a pipe-type geo marker would be stupid, but not especially bold by comparison to some of the absurd things searchers have done over the years. Now, removing a marker that’s cemented to a boulder might well be infeasible, short of dynamite-blasting!

            Moving on to the structures subject: “I do not see why some clues shouldn’t refer to manmade objects just as a result of the chest not being associated to a structure…”

            I have adopted Cynthia’s strict interpretation of Forrest’s response to her having used a CCC cabin as her home of Brown, and Forrest basically saying that was a no-no. Others take a more laissez faire stance: that the chest’s location and home of Brown cannot be associated with structures (and for those that believe the blaze and the chest are essentially co-located, then the blaze can’t be a structure either).

            But I think you are more addressing non-structure manmade objects as clues. I think it’s a pretty short list of objects that would pass the immovability ATF and/or durability/indestructability over centuries or millennia. Can you give an example besides geo markers?

          • Zap ~ ‘Now, removing a marker that’s cemented to a boulder might well be infeasible, short of dynamite-blasting!’

            Really… picking up a hand size stone and rap, tap, and smack around the the bronze plate would loosen the cement in a very short time? Dal’s climbing axe would work rather well for the purpose. LOL I wonder when it’s needed to replace a damage or worn-out … how much dynamite is used?

          • Another example: Hieroglyphic type markings that are easily view-able but not easily accessible.

          • Seeker, I suppose you’re right — since the Survey buttons are convex, you could chip them out with a hammer and chisel. I thought I remembered some from my Sierra climbing days that had perimeters that were slightly recessed below the rock surface to discourage removal/defacement. But all the images I’ve found online suggest they’re usually close to being flush with the rock surface.

          • Zap: my point of view is that FF never said the clues could stand the test of time for X or Y years! I think all those ATFs included relativizations, so IMHO you cannot make a strict rule out of it!
            You could exclude possibilities that could in fact help you…
            And last but not least you could be quite disappointed in the end if you realized you missed a big one by excluding possible clues on base of very vague ATFs!

            You wanted an example… well how about messages carved into a rock? Or a sculpture? How about a big wedge driven into a rock? Not impossible to remove but feasable? 🙂

          • TLo: I treat the ATFs as litmus tests for assessing “problems” with solutions. I have about 160 such ATFs from Forrest that I evaluate for conflicts. If a problem turns up, I try to find a loophole in Forrest’s statement.

            Admittedly, I am pretty brutal when it comes to not allowing contradictions; others opt to err on the side of permissiveness. For instance, when Forrest says, “There isn’t a human trail in very close proximaty to where I hid the treasure,” I would not find a trail within 100 feet to be acceptable. Others might feel fine with 50 feet or even less, and might justify that by saying “He didn’t say close proximity; he said VERY close proximity.”

            Because of my (probably overly) strict reading of the ATFs, I’ve never read an end-to-end “solve” on Dal’s that I thought was problem-free.

          • Folks have been stealing them for years for collecting or resale. There were a few on Ebay not long ago…one from Alaska even. I believe they have been reported by now. Folks can be rather ignorant….

          • Zap: a little what if…. what if there‘s a small item… just hidden under a rock where a clue should be… f. e. the blaze… but the blaze is hidden very well and you need to find that item first to get an idea where the blaze actually is? The first to find this item will probably take the item away so finding the blaze will be harder for the next searchers…

            Possible?

          • Tlo: possible perhaps, but I’m not a fan of removable clues. Forrest said he tried to think of everything, so I feel like it would run counter to the spirit of his challenge to have one of the later clues be a foot race for whoever finds it first, and then everyone else is out of the running.

          • Well you‘d not be out of the running… it‘s just getting harder and I think it‘s good to avoid searcher meetings at later clues…
            So why not?

          • Well, TLo, no one has found the chest after 8+ years, and up until late 2015 it appears no one had even solved more than two clues. So I think increasing the difficulty by removing a clue will make it unsolvable. (Recall Forrest’s missing ingredient in the cake recipe quote.)

            Some (most?) searchers believe that most of the clues must be solved on site. As you’ve probably surmised, I’m not one of them. I think this is an armchair treasure hunt, that every clue can be solved before you leave home, but that you will have to find one thing in person once you get there “because Google Earth doesn’t go down far enough.”

          • Zap: Yes I saw you post about this… IMO you need to be BOTG after #3 or #4… no chance from home…

            That’s why we both won’t disturb each other although we’re close… at least our search areas and some points of view and ways of thinking!

            When all this is over we should have a drink and see where we were wrong, shouldn’t we? 😉

            There’s a few of you guys I’d love to go through the chase with… a cold tin can in the hand… I met Morecowbell and Idle Dreamer and it was supercool and enlightning!

          • TLo: my main reason for thinking that you need to solve all the clues before you bother putting BOTG is Forrest’s self-proclaimed “target audience.” Moderately well-off searchers can afford to make dozens of trips to the Rockies; Forrest’s redneck with no job and 12 kids cannot.

            “When all this is over we should have a drink and see where we were wrong, shouldn’t we? ”

            Absolutely! There are so many searchers I’d like to meet.

          • But it’s exactly THAT redneck that will not plant his butt in front of the computer and analyze the poem over and through…

            The redneck FF refers to will take his pickup and go… BOTG… smell that air, let his beard grow, turn his cap around… and step into the wild!

            By chance he will relive FFs highlights and follow his footsteps!

            Get out of the office, away from the computer! Take your kids out, let the playstation where it is and show’em the woods!

            All this has nothing to do with research from home, leaning back in the armchair!

            All IMHO, sure…

          • But mainly I am saying this because I did just that… left my office, stepped into a plane, jumped into Yellowstone River and crossed it 6 times at quite a wild place… I was always aware of dangers and well prepared, too, but I just wanted to get to know this wildlife and so I crossed the border between civilization and pure wilderness for a few times! My personal guess is, that I learned it the FF-way, only 70 years later…

            I can’t tell you much about ATFs but how many German guys or even Europeans can say “I crossed the Yellowstone River six times and felt the power of water after it was easily swollen by a foot or two within one afternoon”…

            We lived our lives the FF-way during our trips and I think I know quite a bit about what this person did, felt, experienced and… in the end… thought! My way of solving this is clearly based on pure empathy and as an office guy from Berlin you cannot be empathetic in this case when you’re sitting in front of your PC in Berlin Germany… in an office that FF would have hated… 🙂

          • Hi Tlo: “But it’s exactly THAT redneck that will not plant his butt in front of the computer and analyze the poem over and through…”

            Then he will fail every time he goes out, assuming he can find the gas money to even leave home.

            “The redneck FF refers to will take his pickup and go… BOTG… smell that air, let his beard grow, turn his cap around… and step into the wild!”

            That all sounds like a nice vacation for him (though how is he planning to pay for it since he’s jobless?), but that plan has no chance of producing a treasure chest.

          • Okay the gas money…

            But still I am more on the gypsy-side of solving this… idealism…!!!

            How much is a computer? 🙂

      • “The treasure chest is not under water, nor is it near the Rio Grande River. It is not necessary to move large rocks or climb up or down a steep precipice, and it is not under a man-made object.”

        I do agree with what Zap and Jake are saying.
        Forrest says it is not necessary to move large rocks, but not small rocks. Why even say the size if its not relevant.

        Also, I do not feel that there could have been a naturally perfect “Blaze” close to “the Spot” the treasure is hidden. For that to have happened is too remote a chance. IMO.

        • And chose the stories he chose because they fit the spot where there is a natural blaze. Any man-made blaze will not last the test of time. IMO, you don’t need to see it to find the chest anyway. But sure helps.

          • Sorry poisonivey;

            I very much disagree. One MUST find and see the blaze in order to find and retrieve Indulgence – JMO – JDA

          • Whatcha talkin bout Willis?

            Why would there be mention of a blaze and having been wise and found it, if we don’t need to see it?

            You’ve got some ‘splaining to do, Lucy!

          • poisonivy,
            I think that if you dont have to see the blaze, then you dont understand the poem, dont know WWWH and certainly dont have a clue about HOB. Cant imagine how you could solve the poem if you dont understand it. IMO

          • This is a perfect example.
            https://ibb.co/gjJ3Cm

            Does anybody see the blaze? Or just marvel gaze?

            Being wise, f has played with a lot of pictures. Taken a lot also, as we see in his books. So, take the original pic and double it over onto itself.
            https://ibb.co/jvbaiK
            See the blaze now?

            He took pictures of Donnie when they went searching for Lewis and Clark. This spot very well could be known to him along with playing with the landscape. To see the things in the landscape referenced from a lot of his stories, and, seeing how he has not given the info to solve for the blaze, wwwh, hoB, then the searcher wouldn’t know what the blaze is. So, like I said, you very well could come up to this simple campfire when travelling your path to the chest, and not seen the blaze that could unfold. And, when I took the picture, I was facing Southwest. Just added info.
            Being wise, and I’m not saying this is 100% the blaze or anything, or that I’m wise, merely an example, but in identifying the blaze, in this way, gives confidence that you are on the right path. But, as you can see, it’s just on my path to the chest, don’t need to see it to find the chest. Plus, I got coordinates from outside source of this exact spot, and something like this is there? lol, maybe I’m on the heels of a jester searcher, to this exact spot, where the landscape does this exact thing, miles in the middle of nowhere. Of course he would have had to know f’s stories before they came out, but possible I guess. 🙂

          • Why change your handle cause of Aaron?
            CharlieM is here but still different.

            I still don’t like what you’re doing with the pics or numbers.
            Somethings never change. OK poisonivey is confirmed was charlie.

            I’m getting itchy…

          • Jake;

            Did I miss something is Poisonivey – Charlie?

            If this is true, Charlie seemed to make more sense than PoisonIvey – Seems like PoisonIves is a bit less logical than Charlie was. 🙂 JDA

          • yea,yea, It’s just one of those things Jake that fits me. To tell you the truth, I don’t like the solve. But I cannot dismiss all that it has come to prove. There is a design that is hard to get away from.

            JDA, how can I make sense to you when I’m talking another solve? I’ve always believed that a searcher will find the end spot first by solving the poem. Then your path is drawn, and where you start is at wwwh. In Anaconda. Wwwh, the blaze, hoB cannot be solved on there own, and it’s foolish to look for the blaze before wwwh. I would even say it is foolish to look for the blaze, but I don’t want you totally confused. See my examples, the blaze could very well be something along those lines. In which case, wouldn’t really matter if I saw it or not, right? There’s clues, hints, ATF’s, comments, SB’s, soooo much, but f has always said, solve the poem like putting an “X” on a map. All we need is the poem. If this is true, then solving the poem gives the end spot, makes sense. He said we need to figure out the clues, to learn and find, along with the info to solve some of the clues is not out there. What confuses me is that searchers go with what f says only sometimes, but when he goes against a solve, they just disregard. That’s what is confusing. We will have another whole Winter to discuss it. 🙂
            Jake, “all that scratchin’ is making me itch”. Anyway, you guys know I like to stir the pot a bit. ooohh, my favorite, the “sun” is a clue. That must be it, take a pic of the sun, flip it onto itself, you have the spot, (or just a bigger sun). Have my Grapette ready JDA.

          • PoisonIvey (charlie) – well, you are stirrin’ the pot.

            Sorry poisonivey (charlie) – all out of grapette 🙂

            JDA

      • IMO Forrest will be making an announcement soon. Something about the word TROVE being key and the star within the….O…or should i say the star within the star. It pays to live in Gardiner BINGO!! IMO

      • Zap,
        Talking about the redneck, you wrote, (though how is he planning to pay for it since he’s jobless?),

        Exactly quote! If he is jobless, he surely could never afford the fee into Yellowstone. Which I would take as off limits, cost too much to
        enter. Your thoughts?
        -B

        • I think just the cost of driving from most places in the U.S. would far exceed the cost of a National Park pass. Beat-up pickup truck getting a generous 25 mpg; average round trip distance of say 2500 miles for easy math: 100 gallons of gas. That’ll run you about $400 in California; a lot less in Texas. So a park entry fee is just a blip.

          The main point is that the jobless redneck with a football team’s worth of kids does not have disposable income for this sort of adventure.

          • Maybe the redneck with kids worked many years and saved a lot of money to finally enjoy his labors when he certainly has a lot of time and money.

            I’ll bet a child would recognize the blaze before an adult.

          • But Forrest didn’t say his target audience guy was retired:

            ‘My audience is every redneck in Texas with a pickup truck and 12 kids. He’s lost his job and has the thrill to go out and look for things.’

          • Zap

            Are you operating under the impression that Fenn is describing the actual audience?

            Do you not see the potential for a clue?

            For a guy that sees clues in all the scraps and interviews, I gotta wonder…

        • Rednecks in Texas must not have it as good as the rednecks in California. Lol Every poor family on welfare here, are sending their kids to school in expensive athletic shoes and carrying expensive cell phones. I think if someone wants it bad enough, they can scrounge up money for Yellowstone. But IMO, its not there, so that would be a waste of their money. Just my opinion.

          • I just don’t get it.
            Redneck does not = poor people.

            Zap said: “The main point is that the jobless redneck with a football team’s worth of kids does not have disposable income for this sort of adventure.”

            That statement by you Zap shows your shallow thought process automatically determining a redneck is a poor person that has no disposable income with kids.

            That’s sad and I knew you would say it sooner or later by reading your fancy words knowing you think you are better and smarter than us with your educational papers.

            I hope someday you get “The main point” but I doubt it.

          • I think the idea of ‘out of work’ is more important than money side of the comment.

            ~ “I’m not flippant about this. It’s not something somebody is going to be able to do on spring break or a Sunday afternoon picnic. I’m looking a hundred years down the road, maybe a thousand years down the road. People don’t understand that.”

            What don’t we understand about “down the road?” Funny thing is, isn’t fenn saying a redneck TX, who has summers off-?- could pack the family up and head on out… sound a bit familiar?

            Sure, sure, we can walk right to the chest, once we “decipher” and “follow” the clues correctly… right?
            But what’s the deal with a week off in spring or a stroll in the wood on Sunday about that’s not going to cut it? { spring breaks ~normally understood to be February, March, April and some May… in different locals across the US}
            Who’s waiting for the mud to dry?

          • Just shove it, Faulker. You don’t know diddly squat about me, and the more claptrap that comes out of your keyboard, the less I ever want to know about you. You can’t give me crap for using FORREST’S words to describe his audience, nor can you ascribe any positive or negative attributes to my take on the word “redneck” from having used it for quote accuracy. I’m a redneck, you idiot — I grew up in Virginia.

          • Come on now…..You are all taking Forrest too seriously. That quote was just a joke it has nothing to do with his real audience. He, on the spur of the moment just blabbed that out to the interviewer. His audience are people that are either treasure hunters or puzzle solvers, and he knows it. How many people would have bought the book if it didn’t have a treasure lure? A good way to get your memoir out to the public. I’m not saying there is no treasure, if fact, I believe there is because Forrest is a real man, and I believe a man of his word. No need for sign contracts just a hand shake.

            As to him looking further down the road…..maybe 100 or a 1,000 years is preposterous. If that is true then why is anyone now looking for the TC? If maybe 4 or 5 clues have already been found (solved) in 8 years why not 4 or 5 more clues n the next 8 years. The 100, or 1,000 years is just another off the cuff remark.

            Anyone here think that the 100 or 1,000 year remark is true then I suggest to start dealing the cards, grab a beer and play canasta. Good luck!

          • Manowar — totally agree with you. Treasure hunters and puzzle solvers are Forrest’s real audience, not weekend warriors or people who spend only a month working on the poem. Hundreds of thousands of people have failed in 8 years, so it’s pretty presumptuous for a poem “dabbler” to think they’ll succeed where the great hordes have failed.

            As for the duration, I think it’s *designed* to last 1000 years (or at least the clues will), but Forrest has the power to steer it into being solved long before that.

          • Fenn is a smart guy…but he is not clairvoyant. I believe his intentions have been explained by him multiple times over the years. His Chase is one of inspiration and hope…to get folks out in nature off the couch. There is a monumental *lure*… the ultimate hand tied fly as *bait*, and that is what kicked this whole thing off. To that end, it would be interesting to hear the *real* demographic break down. For certain there are folks with more available resources that can take many trips, but I think there are many with *less* that have made multiple trips as well. Is there really any advantage to be able to head out more often? The answer is pretty obvious.
            Labels don’t mean anything….Fenn wants sweaty bodies out there looking for his treasure and I believe that the successful person is going to have to *earn* it…just like the man has said.

            Hey…where’s the guy riding his bike to search? Did I miss it?

          • Jake –

            You are correct.
            Forrest would consider himself a redneck. He means nothing pejorative.

            Lug

          • Rednecks from Texas with a lot of mouths to feed during the ‘Great Recession’ and the treasure hunt :

            Forrest’s Dad didn’t have a job in the summer time do in order to survive on the cheap they lived primarily off of being “Gamesmen”.

            So the statement is more about a particular time or group of individuals known to enjoy hunting & fishing.

            In Forrest’s mind it’s a match made in heaven.

            There’s no mystery about his Redneck comment during the beginning of this Chase.

            GCG

      • Just realized by that quote the treasure cannot be under a pile of rocks (or sticks) as that would require it be under a man-made object.

        • Idle;

          I quite disagree. A rock is not man-made – It is natural.

          Are two or three rocks stacked together a man-made “Structure” – I rather doubt it.

          Pay close attention to the quote – he uses the term “Object” – which is singular. Are two, three or more rocks (Plural) considered a singular “Object” even if stacked in some way? I don’t think so.

          One must read a Fenn post with a lot of thought – all may not be what it seems – Just thinkin’ – JDA

          • JDA ~ ‘Are two, three or more rocks (Plural) considered a singular “Object” even if stacked in some way? I don’t think so.’

            Sure is… it doesn’t matter how many are stacked. When finished it is an object itself. A property marker, a religious marker, a grave marker… and even a trail marker [cairns] etc.
            Any object can be of more than one part… I dare say the Great Pyramid of Giza with over 2 million block to create it, is an object. Yet the Spinx is of one solid rock, only carved as an object…. all man created.

          • JDA: have to agree with Seeker on this occasion: stacked rocks (cairns, ducks, choose your term) are absolutely a structure.

          • I think stacked rocks are a structure. Multiple parts, assembled by a human is a strucure IMO. But, then I seriously doubt we are looking for human stacked rocks anyway. If nature stacked the rocks then that is something else.

  3. I read somewhere that FF said that there was billions of blazes. Which reminded me of Carl Sagans comment that there are billions of stars. This makes me want to believe that the blaze is either a star or circle with a dot in it.

    • Hi Michael how about a star with a dot in the corner of the star like the one on the cover of OUAW.But this is not the Blaze!

  4. IMO, the blaze is a land formation or part of one anyway, that will last 1,000 years unless an earthquake causes massive damage to it. I believe it is associated with a natural fen and has in its name, something about the sun. IMO

  5. When I was boots on the ground I came across an informational sign north of YNP. Near the bottom right was a picture of a big yellow dot with a Y in the center. They were the blazes used for the old trail into the north entrance of YNP from further north.

    Confirmation bias set in and for the rest of the search that kept clouding my judgement.

    Wish I could post pictures, but don’t know how to add them to a reply.

  6. Since the blaze is the second to last or last clue, I’m pretty sure that whatever it is, it’s small and only visible from 12 feet away. My guess is that it’s a 1-2 foot high flamelike red iron inclusion in a rock face.

    • I’m kinda going for some of the opposite of that. I think the blaze is big, so visible from a good distance. That distance is farther away than the first clue is from the tc.

  7. I’ll be surprised if it’s not some sort of medium(ish) rock or something on that size of rock and doesn’t point upwards.

  8. I, too, believe it is a natural formation/rock. The question is, has something been chiseled into/written on it? But what do I know? I’m a LONG way before that point in the poem. LOL.

  9. Midwinter spring is its own season
    Sempiternal though sodden towards sundown,
    Suspended in time, between pole and tropic.
    When the short day is brightest, with frost and fire,
    The brief sun flames the ice, on pond and ditches,
    In windless cold that is the heart’s heat,
    Reflecting in a watery mirror
    A glare that is blindness in the early afternoon.
    And glow more intense than blaze of branch, or brazier,
    Stirs the dumb spirit: no wind, but pentecostal fire
    In the dark time of the year. Between melting and freezing
    The soul’s sap quivers. There is no earth smell
    Or smell of living thing. This is the spring time
    But not in time’s covenant. Now the hedgerow
    Is blanched for an hour with transitory blossom
    Of snow, a bloom more sudden
    Than that of summer, neither budding nor fading,
    Not in the scheme of generation.
    Where is the summer, the unimaginable Zero summer?

  10. Zaphod,
    I agree that the poem can be solved at home. In a recent question/answer, FF stated this to be true. Someone asked if the poem could be solvable from home. The answer was something like, Yes in theory, but a person would have to go to the solve to retrieve the chest. So why is this even being debated by anyone? I dont see any room in his response for any other alternative. Do you?

    • Hi Flutterby: there is wiggle room:

      “How much progress can be made by someone just thinking and searching the Internet from home? (Another way of saying this: How many clues can only be decoded in situ?)” (Posted on Dal’s site on 2/27/2017, but interview was from May 2015).

      Fenn’s reply: “All of them, in theory, but not likely in practice. A searcher must go to the site to find the treasure.”

      It is precisely because he seems to say all the clues could be solved from home *in theory* that I believe they can and must be. If BOTG were strictly needed in order to solve one or more clues, then there is no way the clues could be solved “in theory” from home because you would lack critical information found only on site. In any case, I don’t see any way that someone could theoretically solve all the clues from home if clues 3-9 required a physical presence to spot them.

      • Zap;

        I have tried to solve eight at home on my computer, and thought I was successful. My last trip taught me that the first five were correct. – #5 for me was finding the blaze and looking quickly down. When I expected to find Indulgence it was not there, and never had been – MY ERROR.

        Solving the next 3 clues, I was able to again solve at home, but would never have been able to had I not had BotG and learned what I learned from being on-site.

        Lessons learned. Will try one more time (I hope) before the snow flies, and with BotG will solve #9 – I hope – JMO – JDA

          • Finder;

            Yes, still in Wyoming. We all parse the poem in different ways – which way is correct? Guess we will only know when it is found, and Forrest tells us how HE parsed it – JDA

      • Imagine that exactly those clues (let’s say 4-9 because it fits my solve) require on site research! In theory you could find them via internet but to connect the dots is practically impossible from your armchair…

        FFs comment leaves this open to your imagination or experience…

        So we cannot say for sure which way is correct… I’d say the chances are slightly in favour of the BOTG solution…

        • The quote from FF tells me that the entire poem can be solved at home, but the only way you know your solve is correct is BOG to bring home the TC.

          Ive gone BOG a few times but have yet to be successful. I continue to work on 3 solves that I believe could potentially be correct. If I ever rule one out, I will post it, but as long as Im still working on it, I only shate ideas. I have no doubt whatsoever that in theory you could solve the poem at home, but that you must be on site to collect the TC. That is my opinion. Anyone who thinks differently is more than welcome to make as many trips as they wish. Good luck! I think if more people shared ideas, a groupnof us could solve it together.

          • I do agree Flutter. That element of *confidence* and his *all of them in theory* comments do indicate that a searcher can solve up to actually *finding* the treasure at the location. Go to the site to find the treasure….

      • Not all of the #3 thru #9 clues need a physical presence (BOTG) to
        spot them. But it definitely helped with at least one of those. Using
        GE was very helpful as [well]. But it was on a Windows 7-equipped computer. A Windows 10-equipped computer may not work as well
        for this. As always, IMO.

      • Zaphod,
        I agree that FF’s statement indicates that all the clues can be solved at home but that you must do BOG to retrieve the TC. He also said that a person with the correct solve will go with confidence. That wouldnt happen if you only have a few clues solved. IMO

  11. Zap,
    You wrote, I don’t see any way that someone could theoretically solve all the clues from home if clues 3-9 required a physical presence to spot them.

    Home videos on YouTube, that’s what I did. I found hundreds of videos of people visiting my search area. Then, I watched them frame by frame.
    -B

    • Well, Birdie, that is a new approach. Wouldn’t work in my case, I see only two videos of my search area – Have memorized those, but they do NOT compare to BotG. Almost all of my “work” is done in my head, and Google Earth THEN BotG to confirm correctness/noncorrectness of my efforts – JDA

        • I agree. If people have been within 500′ and even 200′, (whether search related or not) – One would think that someone would have made a video. NO video’s – PROBABLY you are in the wrong place – JMO – JDA

    • Hundreds of videos of people visiting your search area? (And those are just the people who have POSTED their videos.) Does that really sound like the sort of place Forrest would enjoy? Or one where accidental discovery of the chest wouldn’t be a real possibility? Perhaps these videos you’ve found aren’t of spots near the end of your clues, in which case it might still be workable.

      • Zap,
        You wrote, Hundreds of videos of people visiting your search area? (And those are just the people who have POSTED their videos.) Does that really sound like the sort of place Forrest would enjoy?

        My answer, is yes! I do believe he would love hearing kids running around playing & laughing while enjoying the great outdoors, I sure do believe that!
        -B

      • Fair enough, but what about Forrest’s original plan: with his last dying breath to fling his body on top of the treasure chest? Seems that would lead to a rather terrifying discovery for those children.

        • No way… for the same reason a cougar or coyote or vulture will not be able to spread the remains over an area of 9000 sqf those children will not have a chance of finding him… nor indulgence! Except they are there on base of the poem… in this case the children could deliver the right ideas while not being the ideal choice for retrieving it!
          (IMO)

    • Birdie, if that many folks have made videos of that area, it’s not likely to be as
      specifically well-focused as you would like. I hope it’s not as large as New Mexico.

      The above is part of my opinion, don’tcha know.

  12. Zap,
    There’s a reason why Mr. Fenn said, no one will stumble upon it and there’s a reason why children would need help retrieving the chest. And there’s a reason why no one would smell him too, he’s been very cleaver. IMO
    -B

    • It almost looks like you’re implying that the chest is hidden inside a beaver lodge.
      (I said “almost”.)

      Coincidentally (no pun intended in “dentally”), there are signs of beaver activity kinda nearby (upstream), in the same general search area.

      Unfortunately, “general” info alone won’t lead to the “private” hidey place.

      Beavers have paddles. This may be more specific than general, but is
      not likely to help much with a great solve . . . but it might be useful to know that there probably wood be no beavers around if there were no trees in the
      vicinity.

      As always, IMO.

  13. I live in Australia and I have plans for BOTG next season. I went this Summer but I missed judged the snow melt and wasted my time, wasn’t fully prepared.
    -B

    • Birdie
      July thru mid August can be
      a more settled time.
      But, my direct 40 year exleriences
      in the W. side of the WINDS, also reminds me you can get an inch of snow, at only 7,100 ft on JULY 4th. Ha.!

  14. It’s been a long day at work of making mistakes and causing eye strain for my boss from so much eye rolling. So I’m going to take FF’s advice, be wise and find the B laz E. OK, the be wise part might be beyond me tonight, but I’m sure I can manage being laz E without even trying.

  15. I will repeat my idea about where the chest may be for those who have not seen my ideas. I will try to be brief and just name the steps according to his riddle.

    1. Begin where warm waters halt—Lamadera, NM. The Ojo Caliente (hot eye) River starts (halts) there.
    2. Take it (your journey) in the canyon down—The Canada de la Cueva is downhill or downstream a short distance.
    3. Not far but too far to walk—It is a short distance, but you can drive down to where he left the road. Much easier, and he wouldn’t be seen.
    4. Put in below the home of Brown—So you have gone down the canyon and you “put in” the river, meaning you cross it. It is shallow and below where Brown trout live—they live above this point.
    5. No place for the meek… There is a sheer cliff with a waterfall coming over it, but you can get around it by going 100 feet or so to the south.
    6. Drawing nigh—The end is indeed near. The entire hike is short as would befit an 80 year-old man.
    7. No paddle up the creek—The creek that pour over the cliff is very small. No paddle needed.
    8. Just heavy loads and water high— The heavy load part mystifies me a bit, but he might be speaking about it simply being an uphill walk. Water high… There is a lovely spring above although it is hard to see from the satellite views.
    9. As for the “blaze”. Go to a satellite view of the area and zoom in on the area above the Ojo Caliente I have described. You will notice a white “blaze” at the edge of that lovely spring. The “blaze” in not sand, but rather mineral deposits from the water.
    10. I was there, but didn’t look around as much as I would have like to. “Look quickly down…” At one time I thought it might be in that spring, but it has been said since that it is n not underwater. Perhaps under some rocks nearby… He has said it is not under any “big” rocks—if that another hint?

    Anyway, that is my thought, and having been there it is “still” my thought. To make it even more curious… He says if it is worth the cold and you are brave and in the wood… The mountains are “The Wood” mountains, and you might be cold from crossing the river…

    As for brave… Nothing dangerous—you can avoid the cliff, but I am NOT sure about the public access of all this… The Canada de la Cueva has private land to the north of it, and private land to the south, but the canon is a narrow unfenced corridor until you get right down to the river. Then there is a fence, but it has a large purposely made opening in it, and the fence might be to keep cattle from getting onto the road instead of keeping people out—I don’t know the truth of this and it is VERY hard to find out. Anyway, too much fits too well for me to think I am wrong… I am 1,500 miles from the place, too old, and not used to the altitude either, so it is not easy for me to check out. Anyway, that is still my guess on it all including where that very novel “blaze” is—and it will last as long as he said.

    • I’m mystified John.
      There is only one way to find out.

      “too much fits too well for me to think I am wrong”
      Think again.

      • Jake, I have been there twice, but ran into some “surprises” both times that prevented a thorough check… The first time, I didn’t expect a large spring with knee deep water. I didn’t expect the possible “private property” aspects of it either—perhaps the reason you are to take the chest and “tarry scant”. The second time, another car was there and a new fence was put up—a nice inviting opening in it, but the privacy aspect bothers me, not to mention that I am old, 1500 miles away one-way, and the elevation gets to me after awhile due to my living near sea level. Simply too much of a hassle for something that “might” exist, but if it did, I can’t imagine a better fit than what I mention. Everything from the warm water halting, to the “water high (in elevation) fits, and there is a sheer wall of rock that doesn’t even show up on the maps that certainly isn’t for the “meek”, and that inviting narrow corridor between two private lands. And all this in a short distance by foot. Finally, he has said it is a special place… This IS a special place. It is typical pinon, juniper area, but with a beautiful waterfall, a fantastic spring, and a small creek that runs underground, then to the surface, then underground, then up again… Certainly “special” for NM. If you have been there and searched though out that area, then perhaps your “think again” might apply somewhat, but I don’t know of any fully explained solve that fits better, with all clues fitting in such a short distance… And again, he finishes his riddle with, “If you are brave and in the wood…” Not “woods”. Those mountains are the Wood Mountains… No reason to “think again”, because I couldn’t do any better.

        • John,
          Private property scares me away.
          There’s millions of “special places” throughout the Rockies.
          Welcome to the club where everything fits the poem but only brings on fits.

          • Jake,

            That is my problem too… Private property. But I can’t confirm that it “is” private. That is the frustrating thing about it. I went to the local assessors office and their information was sketchy. The spring I mention is supposedly owned my some mysterious “group”—no names. There is that fence, but why a wide opening in it and no signs saying to keep out? If I knew it was private for certain—I’d give up on the idea. But part of me wonders if this could be part of the “riddle” too—finding out what is private and what isn’t… And I beg to differ, I don’t think there are that many solves where everything fits so well in such a short distance, and everything taken simply from his double meanings.

        • I don’t like NM as the resting state although it could be.
          The 200′ – 500′ comment by Fenn doesn’t fit here where your blaze is. I’m also not a fan of being able to see the blaze from GE.

          There are others here that agree with some of your findings and beliefs so I will bow out gracefully.

          Good luck in your quest.

          • I tend to like NM because I think he added the rest of the Rockies to both limit the search, but also get people away from NM. I am not aware of the “200′-500′” comment by Fenn, so I will have to try to check that… The “blaze”—if that is what it is, is easy to see when you are around it too.

            Good luck to you too.

          • One final comment about the “blaze”. He speaks about “being wise” and finding the blaze. You don’t have to be wise to stumble upon a marked rock or tree, so in my mind it must be something you have to consider out of the ordinary to find or recognize… Just a thought.

          • John;

            I have mentioned this before, but a “Wise old owl” will seek the highest perch possible to view its prey.
            Could this be a hint? JDA

    • John, I didn’t get passed number 1.

      Begin where warm waters halt—Lamadera, NM. The Ojo Caliente (hot eye) River starts (halts) there.

      Could you please show how the poem told you to start here? In fact, where do you solve the poem anywhere?
      This is a “throw a dart at the dart board” type of solve. Sorry John, not trying to be mean, but, IMO, you need to find a way to solve the poem.
      Usually, when solves start this way, the next thing that comes is the history lesson of the area, and how it goes with the next thing, some canyon. Never solving the poem. There are so many places that can “fit” the poem, that is not solving the poem.
      If you picked wwwh from history of the area, or sounds like, or random pick, that is guessing on a spot. The poem must give the answer, not the searcher. There are a lot of solves that follow this pattern. It is a first year type solve. Believe me, I did the same thing.

      Start in Willow, Wy. South to where Purple Mountain is in Yellowstone, continue around lake to road leading to lake in the woods, camp loll. It all fits, but is not solving the poem. Thousands of places in the Rockies like this. Like you said, “Anyway, that is still my guess on it all”, exactly, it is a guess.

      Don’t take this the wrong way, if our solves are not critiqued, we learn nothing and continue down the rabbit hole.

      IMO, forget all you know, look at the poem, a bunch, and find a way to solve the poem. No map needed yet, no book, just the poem. Try to find something that sticks out and shows pattern. Something that is done by design. The poem will answer your start place, not a guess.

      • Poisonivy,
        I agree that the poem must tell you WWWH. Making guesses wont help and will result in a lot of trips that don’t lead to the TC. The poem contains all we need.

        I feel like Im the only one that thinks that the words in the poem contain thr answers and guessing is not needed. I keep hearing that some steep mountainside or rapid stream is no place for the meek. I don’t buy it. That is just random guessing. The poem itself has to tell you the solutions to the clues. If it doesnt, we havent figured it out. IMO

        • Totally correct Flutterby. We can’t really knock the new searchers for taking the road that we all have started out taking. It’s hard for them to grasp that all their research and time spent everyday has been for not, or that they just wasted all that time. They won’t admit it or see it for what it is. They continue with the same “what they think” solve and don’t ever understand that solving the poem is something different.
          No research needed, no guessing, just the poem to give the actual answer. Time would be better spent coming up with their own niche to reading the poem.

          I keep hearing that some steep mountainside or rapid stream is no place for the meek

          It is just more guessing on top of guessing. When you start with a guess, you’re doomed to continue the pattern. They say it follows the poem, but that again, is a guess. We have tons of these solves, and the quicker they learn, the better they will be. It is more fun trying to solve the poem then it is going over the landscape looking for what looks like a path that follows the poem, or that magic dart that may luckily land on wwwh.

          If it was possible, IMO, it would be best to totally clear the mind of what they know, and just get the poem. Read it over and over, and find a way to solve the poem. Then, when done, look at a map, find the many hints, and confirm their solve of the poem. Then research the history for something to do, or just go get the chest, but not in Winter. 🙂

          • Poisonivey,
            I agree with your assessment about the private property aspect of all this. I don’t think F. would put the chest on someone’s private land. The place that nags at my mind has the small strip of public land between private lands. The county office was unclear to me about all of that, but one tiny parcel nearby was owned by some “group”. Could that be Fenn? There are things that you suddenly come across without expecting them. But clearly, I don’t think he would put it on anyone else land.

            I take his telling people to take it easy now that winter is near as perhaps both a precaution to those who might be careless, and “perhaps” one more way to have people thing about the colder climes.

            I’ve lived and worked in NM, but am in OR now. My idea about the effort being worth the “cold” is the fact that you have to wade across a cold river… The clue would always fit that, as well at it being in the “wood”, the La Madera Mtns. (The Wood Mtns)

            My so-call “solve” takes about 1/2 hour hiking or so to get to the area where I think the chest might be. Probably a bit more for older people such as myself or Mr. Fenn. Certainly nothing he couldn’t handle.

            I am probably wrong with all this, but I am content to wonder about it until I am sure I am off. Good luck.

      • Poisonivey,

        Where warm waters halt is tricky, but brilliant as a part of a riddle. You have to consider double meanings to every clue. Warm waters—The Ojo Caliente River (meaning Hot Eye in English). Then rivers “halt” at their end or at their source. The Ojo Caliente is one of those rare rivers that has a definite starting point. It is formed by the confluence of two other rivers with different names, the Vallecitos River and the Tusas River. So you know exactly where to begin your quest, if the other clues fall into line…

        Sorry, but if you don’t understand what a “riddle” is, or how they are solved, there is not much I can say. I might be wrong with the location, but I am certainly not wrong with my logic. And I beg to differ with you… I have yet to see ANY fully explained solve that has everything line up in such a short distance as reasonably as this.

        IMO, you are making a mountain out of a molehill… We will have to disagree. “Mary is hot.” What does it mean? Is she hot due to temperature, or is she mad, or is he great looking… To me, this is what Fenn has done with his clues. Water high…elevation, not deep, etc. He has said he wanted people to look for the treasure… If it was to be completely solved from a desk, then that advise would be ridiculous. He expects us to work on a solve, then to go to the general area and find it…

        Finally, as I have said, you need to understand “riddles”—double meanings or more… Good luck.

        • Again, I’m not knocking your work, but, and I say this with respect, can you see how you are not using the poem to get wwwh? Disregard the history lesson of the area. What, in solving the poem directed you to that spot. See what I’m saying. You are starting with your knowledge of the area and not the poem being used.
          Believe me, I know the double meanings and all. This is why I posted a ridiculous solve. I just picked a place that is close to what the poem is saying, and lining up a path, with some history. There is no Solving the poem.

          Look at this:
          Warm waters—The Ojo Caliente River (meaning Hot Eye in English)
          What in the poem told you to start here? What told you to use the meaning of “hot eye”? What told you, in the poem, to discount “warm” and use “hot”. Show me in solving the poem that gave this location.
          Do you see now? You just picked a place, nothing solved in the poem. An example, and I apologize if I’ve showed this before. And I don’t mean this as the solve to do, it is just an example.

          “Begin it where warm waters halt”.
          What I mean by solving the poem, is to find your way of deciphering the poem. With this line, you have Begin, then you have “it” and the letter “w” here. So it starts off saying, Begin wit.

          There are different ways to break down the rest, but one way is:

          warm waters and then the letter “h” alt, or alternate. We then would have:

          Begin wit(h) warm water salt. Which could be Epsom. So the line reads, Begin with Epsom.

          This is focusing on the poem and following instructions within the poem to obtain a solve. If a searcher broke down the poem, showed how in solving the poem it started at the Ojo Caliente River, then I would say good job. It may be right or wrong, but it’s showing how solving the poem made you start where you started. There is no solving the poem with your solve, just places that you have picked because of coincidence.

          What f did with the poem is give directions to a spot. Gave points of reference, maybe some directions and distances, and said to solve for that spot and weed a path. The clues cannot be solved from a desk, at least not all, but the poem, that’s different. It can be solved, or there would be no reason for it.

          In your first paragraph, you said “You have to consider double meanings to every clue. Warm waters—The Ojo Caliente River”.
          Okay, how about an area that was at one time a geyser system, spewing hot water everywhere, but now is dormant. Warm waters halt, how is this wrong and the Ojo Caliente right?
          The thing is, river waters do not halt, in fact, water itself never really halts. Always moving. Even if warm waters meet cool waters, the warm waters do not halt. And we’ve said before, warm waters in Greenland are not the same as warm waters in the Pacific. So it’s not temp. In my example, it would fit a lot better then the river, because the warm waters have actually stopped, or halted.

          The thing is, neither way uses the poem to pick the starting point. Nothing is said about solving the poem to get a start place. What you have are coincidences to a story that you believe follow it to a tee. You have gotten away from the poem, and put a map in a more important role. The poem must be solved.

          There are hundreds of thousands of solves that follow this format, and don’t get me wrong, I started the same way, but we need to critique ourselves as to not leave any doubt that someone else can exploit. Without definitions, or history lessons, you need to show me how solving the poem got you to the Ojo C. If you can do that, then I could believe that you are into the poem, and solving it in the right way, and not just throwing darts.

          Again, I don’t mean to knock your thoughts, just trying to give a helpful view. If I’ve come off as negative towards you it is not meant and I apologize. I get what you are saying and understand, duck or duck, right, Quack or move, we have seen a bunch of these types of solves, and in a sense, we have all started off in this fashion, but the sooner that searchers realize this is just guessing, then the quicker they will get to actually finding a way to solve the poem, instead of just picking places and following a map that are coincidental to the poem read.

          I wish you luck, and I do know what it feels like to start all over again, it sucks, but it may be what needs to happen here.

          • Poisonivey,

            I think I AM using the poem to find where warm waters halt. Where the waters halt is simple determined by having all the clues fit that follow. That is how the poem works in my opinion. And by “fit”, I mean like a glove. Having said that, I think you still need to be on the site to find the chest. Fenn has encouraged people to get out and search for it. If it was all to be figured out right down to the exact location from a desk, there would be little reason for that.

            I am not new at looking at this. I first thought about this perhaps 3 1/2 years ago. I have not tried to use any history in my solve to speak of—simply the wording of his poem. Right or wrong, this was and continues to be my thinking…

            I think it is in NM. I think he hid it there and only later changed the possible locations for 2 reasons. To limit the search, but to also draw people away from NM.

            My first instinct dealt with the “Home of Brown”. I thought about trout… Thinking that was clever, I looked at rivers in NM with Brown trout. By coincidence, I hit upon the tributaries of the Ojo Caliente River which have Brown trout, but they do not live all the way downstream.

            I then tried to figure out some connection with the “warm waters” below where the Brown were. Not easy to do, but then it dawned on me that the warm waters DID halt in Lamadera NM, if you consider the named of the river being “warm”. From there, it was a matter of simply following the clues, one by one, to the general area of the “blaze”.

            I beg to differ with you about your thinking. It is NOT easy to line up clues that all fit, and by fit, I mean fit well. That is how I believe he did this. I believe you more or less have to stumble upon the starting point, but by using the clues as to making that point logical. I find Lamadera logical, but if I couldn’t find a canyon down, I would dismiss that thought. All the other clues needed to fall into order too, and I find it hard to believe that they randomly would.

            I know what you are saying, but I simply don’t believe he used your method. When he says the poem will lead you there, it doesn’t have to mean that he gave you the starting point in black and white. I think it means that with all the clues combined, the starting point will make sense—if you stumble upon it.

            I looked at other hot or warm waters in NM and nothing came of them. Since I “feel” it is in NM, I have stuck by that. This solve strings things together very well and all in a small area and in the right order.

            I told Mr. Fenn about my ideas and he had one simple remark. He asked me if I was always right? Yes, more double meanings. That is how I perceive the poem—hidden meanings, but as in riddles.

            And you are right about it being guessing to a large extent, but I don’t think things would line up so well by random chance, and when all the clues line up, I think that is what makes it more plausible and far less random. At that point it is not simply “guessing”, but based on exactly what the poem says.

            And I don’t think there is some hidden meaning in the way the poem is structured or made. Some code breaker would certainly have figured out something like that by now.

            Stubborn perhaps, but I simply can’t imagine a better solve. The potential private property issue is the one very nagging thing to me. Very hard to know if things are private or not—maybe Fenn has that twist included as well.

            Again, let me argue a point… From the start you go to a canyon down… There is a canyon down the road, not far, but too far to walk. This canyon is narrow and not much of a canyon. It had private property to the north, and private property to the south, but it is not fenced until you get near the river. Then there is a fence, but no signs on it, and a wide open purposely made opening in it. Why? Cattle roam on the other side, so maybe it (the fence) is to keep cattle off the road… Maybe not private at all… These are nagging questions, but it is odd to have that narrow corridor between definite private properties… Just coincidence? Just coincidence that a sheer wall of rock is there (no place for the meek). Just coincidence that there is a waterfall with water pouring over that sheer cliff (water high above a stream too small to need a paddle). Everything fits, and well.

            I could easily be wrong, but I would love to be proven wrong, not just thought wrong.

            Good luck with your angle too.

          • Okay John, I won’t argue a point if that is how you see the poem. I have a lot of concerns, but if that is how you see solving the poem, then that is how it is. I just posted examples of solving lines in the poem. The thing is, we don’t know what the clues are. We know 2 of them, but to say that the clues are being followed perfectly when we don’t know the clues, is a stretch. But like I said, if that is how you read the poem, then that is it. I wouldn’t want you to change anything, if that is how you see it, then that is how it will be seen. But there are concerns.

            Like why not the dormant geyser idea, all fits rather well also, if not better? Why couldn’t Purple Mountain in Yellowstone be hoB? You could fit clues after that. My point is that it must be in the poem to tell you. Just picking these places is not solving anything, but that is what I think. So I agree with you if you believe in your solve. I bring up questions only to hopefully let you critique yourself. If you still like your answers, you get no argument from me. We all must critique ourselves harder then anyone else, right? And with the long post, I can see you are passionate about what you have found. Any kind of solve, regarding this chase, is a lot of time and work. People outside the chase wouldn’t understand all the needed research hours alone. So really, any solve has a lot of work put into it. Right or wrong, we all have gained knowledge one way or another. Good luck to you John…

          • Poisonivey,

            I have to reply out of sync since the thread has ended, but just a couple things…

            It “could” be other places than where I think it might be. The possible private property aspect of it is my largest concern, although I still don’t know if it is…

            And again, NM has just made sense to me. I believe he limited the search range to keep people from looking in Delaware or Finland, but also to broaden it to the Rockies and get people away from NM. I see no reason to think otherwise.

            It could be in Yellowstone, but beyond my gut feeling about NM, there is the possible “paper trail” if he traveled that far.

            And finally, things can line up in other places if you just go by the riddles in the poem, but I still doubt they can do so as well in such a short distance as to allow him to be unseen and make two quick trips in to hide the chest.

            Many people venture to a spot, find out it doesn’t fit, and toss the idea aside. I would do the same thing if I felt this spot was eliminated in my mind, but it isn’t. There are still nagging things about it.

            I still think the “solve” is entirely involved with the riddle aspect of the poem. From “warm waters halting” to the “blaze” virtually every line has multiple meanings. To me, that is the puzzle.

            Good luck. I’d like to see where it actually is.

          • John, as far as the “private property” thing goes, I would highly advise on not thinking it is on private property. Just the fact of how searchers have trespassed onto his land would give f cause to caution. He would be able to easily foresee something like that, and wouldn’t put another in such a daunting position. Now land managed by the Bureau of Land Management, yes. Federal lands, yes. Remember, his belief is that we, the people, own the government. (don’t quote me on those exact words, I think you get the gist).
            Yellowstone, like you say, is a paper trail. I agree, probably not there. Plus, the traffic, runs the risk of being seen at any time. Since he just said to pack it in until Winter is over, his thinking, tells me that the spot may have snow on it now. Doesn’t really narrow things down, but gives the suggestion that Winter comes early to the spot. And, if your effort is worth the cold, and he says to search in the Summer, then not to far of a stretch to think mountain, elevation, and North.(the last part of that people in the lower states might not like). Get’s cold there too, so not throwing it out. What do I know anyway, I’m at work in So.Cal. with the air conditioning on.
            I do believe that wherever he hid the chest, he didn’t make it too difficult for himself. That’s not to say that it isn’t, I’m not going to underestimate the guy, but he’s not going to risk health to do this. Not unless he planned to. He may have planned to die with the chest, but when hiding, he had every intention of returning home. I believe it will be a long, peaceful walk/hike to the chest.

  16. When I started thinking about what the blaze might be, I was originally thinking along the straightforward idea of the traditional mark on a tree like the ones described in the journals of Lewis & Clark and Osborne Russell. I still haven’t ruled this idea out completely, but I have been noticing that relying on a tree as a permanent marker is a roll of the dice due to how easily a tree can suddenly be destroyed by flood, wind, lightning strike, bark-beetles, etc.

    A new idea that I had in the course of this past summer: What if the blaze is a mark that mimics the look of a traditional tree-blaze, but is on stone? So a smooth rock face or formation with an obvious gouge in its surface that looks like a blaze. I’ve found a couple of instances of this in my BOTG searches this past year, though no treasure for me. Just another thought I wanted to share to add to the heaping pile of ideas of what form the blaze may take.

    • “The blaze is a physical thing. It’s not metaphorical……I mean, it doesn’t take a scientist to figure out that the blaze is something you can look at.”
      ” I mean, I could give you a thousand different scenarios there. And all of them came to me in-by email. Everybody finds a different one. The fact is, the important one is out there.”

      Fenn has mentioned a few examples of blazes and I doubt any of those are THE blaze. He also has spoken at great lengths over the years that looking for a blaze before finding the correct first clue(starting place) is a total waste of time. If that info is taken at face value, it seems to suggest that the successful searcher may be able to wisely surmise what/where the blaze is after working through the clues to that point. Fenn has said it will be obvious at that juncture.

      • I can’t disagree with everything you said, Ken. There’s really no reason to even think about the blaze at all if we follow the rest of the clues correctly.

        But we gotta do something to pass the time! 😉

        • Blex… pass the time ! Good one… I think about the blaze every day. That’s what we are all looking for, right? Just have to get there starting with wwwh.

          • There’s one possibility that hasn’t been mentioned here…

            I like that ken gave a f few quotes about the blaze. I’ll pick some of them out- The fact is, the important one (referring to the blaze) is out there.”

            My comment to that is i’d lean towards the important one being out there ‘in the poem somewhere’.

            Next one- He also has spoken at great lengths over the years that looking for a blaze before finding the correct first clue(starting place) is a total waste of time. If that info is taken at face value, it seems to suggest that the successful searcher may be able to wisely surmise what/where the blaze is after working through the clues to that point. Fenn has said it will be obvious at that juncture.

            You surmised “after” working through the clues. I believe “before” working through the clues will be possible if one is thinks the right things.

            As in, one could figure out the correct starting place before looking to figure out the blaze. But, the answer to the hidden riddle for finding the correct starting place is also the answer to the correct blaze.

            This hidden answer would be found in the first stanza, imo.

            I can explain further if confusing.

          • Fun…right. My wording was jumbled…but that is essentially my point to an extent. No starting point…. no blaze.

          • Ken,
            I never think about the blaze. I feel certain that knowing WWWH & HOB will tell us what and where the blaze is. If you find the first two clues and you dont understand why they are the first two clues, you will never solve the poem IMO

  17. IMHO
    The blaze is natural, not man made, but may only be visible during a certain time or times during the day. I definitely think it will only function as a blaze as long as it is seen at the location and in the direction intended. For example, walking from SE to NW it is either invisible or non-descriptive, walking from ESE to WNW it presents itself as a blaze. The tolerances could be wide but I believe them to be narrow.

    • Sacro –

      May I provide a quote that you may not be familiar with?

      Mr. Fenn,

      Which direction does the Blaze face? North, South, East or West? Curious. Foxy

      I didn’t take a radial off of the blaze Foxy. I’m thinking it may not be any of those directions. f

    • Actually Sacro, that may be correct. As long as you are not facing North, South, East, or West, like Lug has posted. Especially how line 17 may be solved to read Southwest. Coming from the North and into where the blaze would be, you might not be able to see the blaze. But coming from the Northeast heading Southwest, like you have stated somewhat, could be how the blaze is solved.

      Some will say since f didn’t take a radial that he probably means all directions, but this would be false. F knows exactly what he is saying, and not saying, to provide hints. For me, the blaze is facing Northeast, seen when you come upon it from the Northeast heading Southwest.

      Think of a map with the N,S,E,W making a “+” . Walking where the N would be in the NW position, makes it an “x”. Combined, you get +x, or Texas. Lol, means nothing, just thinkin’…

  18. thats a common brain twister answer. when im in the circle i chase my ranch around in every direction and have fun doing it i found a ball of barb wire reminded me of Fenns ball of string all that and camels to boot had a awesome trip in nm last week

  19. JDA,
    I dont see a comment button below your comment to poison ivy regarding whether HOB is too vague. So now this comment is out of order. But, I was reading the way you walked PI through the clues. Are you sure HOB is in the canyon down? You seem very sure of your WWH. Is it possible that you have not reversed the message about HOB? Do you think irs possible that WWH is below the HOB? I think it is possible. WWH could be in the canyon down put (placed) below the HOB. Just a thought for you.

    • Hi Flutterby;

      No, I believe I am correct.

      “Begin it where wwwh” So, I am standing at the wwwh spot.
      “And take it in the canyon down,” – This tells ME to go down the canyon, starting from the wwwh spot – So, now I am heading south, or lower in elevation.
      “Not far, but too far to walk.” – I go down the canyon “Some” distance.
      “Put in BELOW the hoB.” – This tells me that once I have gone down the canyon a particular distance, I will see hoB. Go a bit past that point, and then get out of the canyon – or “Put in”. I know “Put in” can have two definitions to “Get in the water” or “Get out of the water” – Getting out fits my interpretation. Just how I see the poem -Thanks for askin’ – JDA

      • Just to note JDA your definition of “put in” isn’t all inclusive as I put in my 2 cents. The definition I like is to “enter something.” I entered my 2 cents, someone enters the land from the water, you enter the harbor (you don’t even have to leave the water), or even as simple as my Bear Trap Canyon solve where I put in at the parking area of a trail.

    • Then you would be able to solve for the blaze before wwwh. You could solve for a later clue before a previous clue. Don’t believe that it is seen from above.
      There may be small hints with the landscape from his pics, but flying in a plane to see a clue sounds unlikely as it would then be able to be seen before a previous clue. This would not fit, sorry…

      • Did you consider that I may have solved the previous clues and came to my blaze and was able to see it from above as in GE?
        Or maybe the blaze is part of the pictures in the book and I can see it if I stand over the book and look down. …above does not mean by airplane..just saying. ..IMO of course

        • Well, the blaze is outside so I just figured you would be in the air to see. You didn’t say you were using pics in the book. Solving the previous clues to come to your blaze still does not effect that you can see the blaze from above using GE if you didn’t solve the previous clues. If you came from the North, solved clues to get to your blaze, and I came from the South, without solving, we still would both see what you are talking about from GE.
          If you are looking down on the book, and see a blaze, how would that pan out in the field. How would it be a clue?

          I get what you are saying Eagle, just don’t think that the blaze would be so obvious. Or shortcuts would be used, IMO.

  20. Hey all! I’m posting my 2nd post here, so be nice. Every single one of you are experts in my eyes since I’ve found Dal’s blog.

    I have a question about “the Blaze”. In Fenn’s poem, he states
    “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
    Look quickly down, your quest to cease,
    But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
    Just take the chest and go in peace.”

    I have some land survey experience and I might be confusing myself from my background. I didn’t get through all the above
    postings, but those that I did read seem to be using “blaze” interchangeably with a “landmark”.
    When I think of early pioneers (and land surveyors), the trails were “blazed” with notches in trees or stacking rock formations, etc. It never occurred to me that it could be a mountain side or a landmark in the geography of the terrain.

    To me, a landmark could be seen for miles around, or just several hundred feet. There would be many places to stand in view of a landmark. I’m thinking that as Fenn found the location he was happy with, that he would make the “blaze” on something reachable…a tree, a fence, and boulder…..something very close to the treasure and something he did himself.

    How else could you see the blaze and look down and find the box? He didn’t say “Look for the smiley face on the cliff from 100 chains and you will see the treasure directly below it.”

    I have a feeling someone in this marvelous group may have already addressed this. If so, let me know and I’ll scratch that off my list. Not that I’ll be going to explore in person any time soon. I’m just fascinated and want to be a part of someone finding it!

    My second question is….well, I don’t know where to post it. If Fenn was facing his last days, he already stated in the poem that he was tired and weak. I keep asking myself, if I had diminishing strength and was very ill…..how far would I drive to accomplish this mission? He said none of his family knows…so he apparently went alone. That’s a pretty hard question to answer….but it seems to be a logical question to ask.

    On one of the posts, one of you emphasized “imagination”, and I agree 100%. In my limited knowledge of all of this right now, it seems that “imagination and logic” would be a more finite approach……or maybe not! lol.

    OK….I’m ready to hear some thoughts. Nice to join all of you great people!

    Suzanne

    • Suzanne,
      There are as many suggestions for the blaze as there are searchers. In my opinion, the blaze is the same thing as home of Brown. That is why, by the time the blaze is mentioned, “you’ve been wise and found the blaze”. The poem has already told you what it is. This is just my opinion, but I do know a couple of people who agree.

      I dont believe that FF is referring to himself as tired and week. We have rehashed “I” for years. Some believe “I” is FF, himself. I think there may be more people that believe “I” is something else. Im of the opinion that I is something else. The word “tired” can mean done over and over and over. I think this poem is about a natural process (in nature) that is done over and over until “I” has become weak.

      All this is just my opinion but I stand firmly behind it. Welcome to our group.

  21. JDA, You say, “I have mentioned this before, but a “Wise old owl” will seek the highest perch possible to view its prey.
    Could this be a hint? JDA”

    Virtually anything can be a hint, but it is putting them together that is the problem. “Jane is hot.” What meaning comes to mind? Is she hot because of the temperature? Is she hot because of how great she looks? Is she hot because she is mad? Personally, I think Fenn has done exactly that with his riddle—many meanings, but all REASONABLE. It is a riddle, not a cryptogram, or an anagram, or some page in the Bible. For example, he says to find the treasure you don’t have to move any large rocks…but how about “small” ones? Is that a hint that it could be under small stones? I think the hidden meanings are right in front of our faces, not something you need a calculator to figure out.

    • That, I agree with. Everything that f has spoken chase related always seems to have a double or triple meaning. (maybe not everything, but you get the gist). If he didn’t tell us the punch line to Eric Sloane’s housekeepers comment, we would be arguing that he meant women that kept houses, or cleaned them. Do we follow the clues precisely or is he saying follow the poem precisely? What is meant by “nailed down”? Not moving large boulders mean small ones, or maybe the area does have large boulders that cannot be moved?
      We have to be flexible to his words, and understand the many ways of deciphering what he is saying. F saying good morning would probably make all searchers wonder what he means. I’m sure he gets a good laugh about it.

  22. Hi all ,mr Fenn did say something about the Rosetta Stone and I think you have to unlock the poem and marry it to the map and I have solved to the Blaze and I have been there.there are keys to poem,stores and map.

  23. Let’s review something. How important is the Blaze to the solve actually? Did Fenn say you could find the TC without the Blaze? Is the TC truly below the Blaze or is it a play on words? I wonder if someone can find the TC while NOT using the blaze as a marker….even if they find the Blaze. In other words, how important is the Blaze in the solve? Maybe it’s useful but not needed.

    • Tony;

      In my opinion, the answer is yes.

      How important is the Blaze to the solve actually? Absolutely esscential IMO.

      Did Fenn say you could find the TC without the Blaze? Not that I am aware of.

      Is the TC truly below the Blaze or is it a play on words? Since no one has yet found Indulgence, no one can truthfully say yes or no. I would say yes though.

      I wonder if someone can find the TC while NOT using the blaze as a marker….even if they find the Blaze. In other words, how important is the Blaze in the solve? Again absolutely essential. No blaze, no treasure. JMO.

      Maybe it’s useful but not needed. – I disagree. JMO

      Why do you want to discount it? Just askin’ – JDA

      • For me, it is like a road sign. Forrest has said that the poem is a map. If you are going somewhere, and you need to take an off ramp to get there, what happens if you are distracted and miss the sign? Simple, you missed getting to where you want to go. Same here, miss the blaze, you will not get to where you want to go. JMO – JDA

        • Hi JDA,

          You will not believe this…and that’s okay. I’m at the correct location….just not specific location. I have the Blaze….but I have been discounting it…since nothing was found initially. I will go back to it this SAT-SUN and take a closer look below it now. I was using it as a marker to line it up with the ‘wise’ location….and hopefully draw a line to the TC. That failed. Many other ideas failed….BUT I have not looked directly below the Blaze enough. Now I tend to agree with you. The Blaze plays a larger role than I thought and I will do what the poem says and look quickly down below it (again)…but in areas I missed. We shall see. The season is nearly over….but I’ve got two more trips in me. I hope it only takes this one. Thanks for your input JDA! – Tony

          • Mr. Fenn: How far is the chest located from the blaze? ~ casey

            Casey, I did not take the measurement, but logic tells me that if you don’t know where the blaze is it really doesn’t matter. If you can find the blaze though, the answer to your question will be obvious. Does that help?f

          • Tony, you seem quite confident regarding the blaze.
            How far (as the crow flies) is the blaze from where you started BOTG hiking, looking for it?

            I ask in order to learn whether “your” blaze is the one that is “my” blaze.

            Good luck in your search. Please stay safe.

          • Seeker…..Awesome! Thank you for that. Good things coming folks. Just not sure when. Hopefully this SAT!

          • Tony,
            Another Q&A you might want to consider…

            Q~ Can the blaze be pre-determined by the poem or can it only be determined at the search area?- becky

            A~ Becky, you are a rascal to ask that question and I have been sitting here for about fifteen minutes trying to decide what to say. Well, it has been thirty minutes now and I think I’ll pass on the question. Sorry.f

            Using both Q&A’s I think the “predetermined” is the stumper. I lean toward the idea that the poem “lead” to the blaze, yet we may not know what the blaze is until we’re on site. Another words… we ‘can’ predetermine where the blaze should be at, prior, but not what it is.

            Another word for ‘determined’ is discover. IMO Wise and Found means discover… which means; become aware of (a fact or situation).
            So again, we might know where the blaze is at, prior, but the preciseness of following the clues ‘gives up’ what the blaze is.

            Might I ask how long you have been involved with the challenge?

          • Seeker….only since April 20th…when I saw the press release about it…and I took the whole month of June off. Prior to this date, I never new about it. Can you believe that? Fresh eyes!!! I am at the correct location and have been for months. I was thrown off by what happens after the ‘wise’ comment. Now I will give the Blaze the attention that it deserves…although the season is about to end. No doubts on location….just haven’t found it. The poem is correct though. Not a wishful fit….a correct fit. Hopefully, good news to follow. Thank you for your comments!

          • I haven’t seen a lot of folks using ‘wise’ in their solve… I wonder if we’re in the same location. Mind if I ask what state your solve is in?

          • I don’t see a lot of people with ‘wise’ as a location in their solves. I wonder if we are in the same area… Mind if I ask what state your solve is in?

          • geo1….thank you for asking. I cannot tell what state….not to be coy, but because Fenn never said what state. I plan on leaving a piece of the treasure in the same spot and ask Fenn if we can keep it going (after announcing I found it of course). I want to see what he thinks about that idea. I am curious as to how long it takes #3 to find it. So I cannot give out more clues than what Fenn already gave out. There is no doubt…I’m at the correct general location. I hope I can find the specific location soon. The whole poem is now solved…except the very end. We’ll see!!

          • Tony;

            I wish you the best, but do you know how many times I have heard this same tale during the past 33 months? More than I can count – Just sayin’ – JDA

          • I understand JDA!! But…I’ll add something else you’ve heard many times before also….”this time it’s different. This is the real deal”. HAHAHA! I’ve failed too many times at this correct solve to be cocky. I readily admit I may not get it this season….but I hope to on SAT. If I don’t get it this season…I’ll be back in April, since it’s the correct solve. I disagree with Fenn’s comment that “the one who knows will walk with confidence and nothing about it will be an accident.” I’m not the first to be at the correct solve….but hope to be the last.

          • Tony,

            I don’t mean this in a bad way… but it seems we always hear the ‘correct’ anything just before winter creeps in, and all winter long.
            I say that because, one comment fenn made about; “probably” retrieve the chest in any weather, and your comment you know the blaze… by any stretch of the imagination that should be 8 if not 9 clues solved/deciphered… right? Much better than 3/4 of the poem’s clues anyways… if not all of it.

            Can you explain why you might not be able to go and obtain a mil plus in gold and trinkets if you know the blaze?
            Is it time spent on cold weather to get to the blaze? [ What time span are you thinking all this should take?]
            Is it impassable to even get to the clue’s location?
            How far are your clue’s points separated and/or the difficulty of the route, from a parked vehicle to the blaze ? [regardless of how many clues there might be].

            I’m not saying drop everything and go… I’m attempting to see or understand why; cross country skiers, hunters [some hiking a mile or two or more to get to their game location], and other winter activities [ folks out all day long ] is perfectly reasonable… yet not being able to get to the blaze that an 79 -80 yr old [ or even older, I think he stated one time at 84 or older he could still go to the chest ] could in summer weather.

            Just a curious inquiry…

          • Seeker…I totally understand your skepticism. I cannot answer any specifics more than FENN has because of the reasons I stated earlier. So looking at your questions, ask yourself, would Fenn answer these? Most are hints or clues. I will tell you that Fenn is correct….that if the person knows the exact location….they can retrieve it in any weather. I’d rather find it now though….because I don’t know the exact location! I have an idea where the exact location is…and that will be Target#1 on SAT. I would not want to try to visually look for it…if it’s covered in snow. Snow is problematic. Let’s hope it doesn’t come down to that and I just pull it out on SAT!! I understand your’s and JDA’s doubts. I wouldn’t believe me either…HAHA! Just read everything I wrote on this thread and the thread to the outside of this one…and ask yourself…is what I’m writing sound reasonable? The way I see it…there are 3 phases to the FENN TC solve: 1) Ppl have no idea where it is (where most ppl are at); 2) Ppl have found the general area and the correct poem location…..that’s where I am…and apparently several before me…and they gave up; 3) The exact TC location….where I finally hope to be on SAT-SUN. Since I am at #2….then there is no doubt. When some of the clues are solved only with BOTG…then there is no doubt. That’s all. I have pulled my pants down enough on this blog. I think I better reign it in….or I may have hell to pay from FENN. This is therapeutic for me right now…since I’m just counting the hours until I can go there. I have work tomorrow. Listen to your little voice inside and ask yourself….could I be for real? Usually the little voice knows. I’m sorry to all of you for rambling on. Let’s put it this way….I’m just another schmuck unless I pull the TC out. I’m really doing these blog posts for public record….because if I pull it out on SAT-SUN….then I will have to go radio silent for 30 days apparently. I will not be able to answer these blog posts. If you hear the TC is found either SAT-SUN via a Fenn press release….then I’ll bet you dollars to donuts it was me. **smiles**

          • Tony,
            You can’t answer these?

            ~What time span are you thinking all this should take?
            ~How far are your clue’s points separated and/or the difficulty of the route, from a parked vehicle to the blaze ? [regardless of how many clues there might be].

            It’s not about being skeptic or not… I mean if you have all the 9 clues proper, including the blaze… once there, shouldn’t the chest become obvious to it’s hide?
            That’s what fenn implied; If you can find the blaze the distance to the chest would be obvious.
            Do you think that Q&A answer was only meant for the sunshine days of summer?

            That’s a legit question… some folks… ok, only me, think this only unfolds in summer…

          • Seeker….here it goes….the best that I can do without going past Fenn’s limits:
            ~What time span are you thinking all this should take?
            ANS: 3-4 trips for geniuses and very few mistakes; 5-8 for smart ppl; 9-12 for smart ppl who made mistakes; 13-19 for average ppl who make mistakes; Let’s call each trip 1 full day;

            ~How far are your clue’s points separated and/or the difficulty of the route, from a parked vehicle to the blaze ? [regardless of how many clues there might be].
            ANS: Too much information here. Fenn wouldn’t say.
            Fenn said…no more than a few miles….so round trip…3. I’m not confirming 3. Just saying no more than ‘a few’….giving his answer. I can confirm that the clues are not evenly spaced apart. There is nothing ‘even’ about them. The distance would be too much information.

            It’s not about being skeptic or not… I mean if you have all the 9 clues proper, including the blaze… once there, shouldn’t the chest become obvious to it’s hide?
            ANS: Not exactly. Within reason…yes…if you are going in the right direction the whole way.

            That’s what fenn implied; If you can find the blaze the distance to the chest would be obvious.
            ANS: I saw that quote. It’s not obvious. LOL. He doesn’t really know….because he’s not on the receiving side of it.

            Do you think that Q&A answer was only meant for the sunshine days of summer?
            ANS: Nope. It’s for all days! Of course with snow on the ground, it’s more dangerous…so he doesn’t want ppl on the ground when there is snow there…even though he said if you know ‘exactly’ where the TC is…you can go to it. That’s what I plan on doing on SAT! If I don’t find it…I’ll stay to SUN and search other targets. This ‘should’ be it though…..knock on wood. Whatever…let’s just see! I’ve been let down so many times…now I just go expect to be let down. That way the emotional fall is not too far! Still….this end of the poem looks very promising.

        • I meant above…i didn’t search in June…I was too busy with some things going on in CA and another reason that I will share if I find it. Although I was at the correct location at this time…I didn’t put the poem to it correctly yet. I have put it correctly since August…but was thrown off from the ‘wise’ location. Now the Blaze will get more attention this SAT-SUN.

          • Goto love the confidence Tony.
            Your comments have been echoed here throughout the years. Blaze away….

          • Jake…some of those echoed comments in here may have been correct also. I’m not the first to be at the correct solve of course. I hope to be the last. Luckily, those who failed, didn’t spill the beans…probably hoping to return later. We’ll see.

          • Tony: two questions to assess your viability. When did you first learn of the Chase, and do you own all three memoirs?

          • Zap….April 18,2018…CNBC press release. I do not own any of his books….nor want to until after I find it. Do not discount that I was lucky in the beginning and stumbled on it. Even Fenn said…it may take a fresh eyes to solve it….someone new. I even took the entire month of June off. I know…it sounds preposterous…and IT IS!! The books are not needed to find it…as he said. The place is special…for sure.

          • Tony: I don’t mean to throw a wet blanket on your enthusiasm, but it is unlikely in the extreme that you’ve figured out WWWH in such a minute amount of time, let alone all the clues that follow.

            Consider for a moment that some have been at this for almost 9 years, and that even after a couple parties solved the first two clues, no further progress beyond those 2 was made for over 5 years.

            Perhaps 400,000 people have preceded you, and most have far more time on the books than you. You aren’t going to just get “lucky” and guess WWWH. There is no guessing involved.

            But supposing for fun that you have a 180 IQ and you’ve actually solved the starting point in mere months, can you offer an explanation for why the other 2-clue solvers took so long to solve the 3rd clue: assuming that they even did (which Forrest was uncertain about)? IMO, if your third clue is easy or obvious, then all the evidence says it’s wrong.

          • Zap…First of all…I’m honored! WOW! I realize the gravity of this thing. If I didn’t take June off from the search…I may have had it a month ago. I wish I didn’t take the time off now. I will answer your question three ways: 1) As Fenn said, people over think it. I think I was successful is because I kept it simple. Fenn said “Don’t overcook my poem”; 2) Luck – Found the location by luck…I cannot tell how. I will also admit something I probably shouldn’t. I had all 9 clues wrong…and still had the correct location! I was there from false clues. I backed into the correct clue answers all along the way! All 9 clues!; 3) To directly answer your question…when you are at the correct location…Clue#3, #4, #5,…etc etc….will all fall into place. So the answer there is…BOTG is required. Granted, I didn’t pull out the chest yet. I think I know what I did wrong all these months. I have all 9 clues solved. I will tell you, even with all 9 clues solved…it will not bring you to the “exact” location. With the 8th-9th clue…you know what to look for. That’s all I should say here…about specifics. If FENN is reading this…he’ll kick my ass….since I plan on leaving a piece of the TC contents at the same location. I’ll ask him later if that was a good idea. He may say no…then I’ll have to go back and pull it out. SAT or SUN is my goal!! I have a good idea where to look now. By trade, i have 20yrs software tech support experience…so all I’ve done for 20yrs is solve easy to difficult problems. I use the same methodology to the FENN Treasure. Maybe that’s the reason for my success….and LUCK! Never discount luck!

          • Tony: with all respect… the distance you walk tells me you‘re not at my search area and that makes me keep cool and sleep tight… 🙂

            Zap-the-walking-ATF-dictionary: what was Fenn telling about those who lnow? They‘re whispering? Something like that…

            My confidence in my first solve (08/2017) was just as high as yours… I am glad I did not produce my how-to-videos with a Darth Vader Mask and a huge rabbit on my lap before my first trip… lol! That‘s why I‘m still here…

            Now how about you… will you be here on monday and eat Ken‘s famous Crow Masala and JDA‘s humble pie?

            We will not be mad at you but it would be a fine move to show up and admit that you (maybe) erred… looking forward to both possibilities: you made it (0.0001%) or you didn‘t (99.9999%) like all of us by the way… 🙂
            Stay safe and good luck!
            T

          • Tlo….Let’s make something clear. I’m not saying I will ‘for sure’ pull it out SAT-SUN. So there will be no crow to eat on Monday. I am saying that I will try. I have a very good idea. I readily admit, I may come up empty….and have maybe one more chance before the season ends. So I will not be eating crow on Monday either way. I am stating that I am at the correct solve location. The end of it is rather difficult until what I see now. Now it looks easy. We’ll see. You know when you lose your car keys and looking all over the house…and once you check every single room…you find them in the garage or whatever? That’s my situation here. I don’t want to admit how many times I have been there…but it’s A LOT! If I didn’t go…I would not have had the breakthroughs that I have had….and that’s why I’m at the very end now. BOTG is required to solve the poem’s clues and get to the TC location. Tlo…guess what happens if I come up empty this weekend? ANS: I will take what I learned and go back again. If that fails, then I will go back in late April. Why? I already told you why above. : )

          • Well said, Tony!

            I agree that the last search area is severely hard to decipher… being at the right spot and finding Indulgence is two different things!

            Good luck to you, Sir!!!

          • PS: when my wife was pregnant and a little confused (shall I say queer?) she left my car keys in the lower drawer of our fridge!

            Now that was a chase… 🙂

            One week later She left them in the baby bathtub…

            I know what you mean lol

          • TLo….it sounds like you have the wisdom to find it also. I only learned how to be wise with all the failed trips to the same location. My mind is night and day from where I was in late April this year (my first visit). I was a naive foolish greenie then. Thank you for your best wishes. I will wish the same for you! If there is a press release this weekend…then you know what happened. The finder is supposed to go radio silent for 30 days. Good luck going forward also.

          • Zap

            If I’ve learned one thing from everyone’s posts, it would be the importance of hubris.

          • Hi Tony: from what you’ve posted, I can tell you a few things:

            1. You don’t have WWWH.
            2. You may not even be searching the correct state. I am amused when people are reluctant to reveal their search state — there are only four in play, and there are searchers in each of them, so it’s hardly giving away the farm.
            3. “I think I was successful is because I kept it simple. Fenn said “Don’t overcook my poem”” : Anything obvious has been tried 1000 times. Rio Grande, Ojo Caliente, Boiling River, Brown’s Canyon, Firehole Canyon, etc. (Please tell me it’s not one of these.) Therefore, the correct answer is evidently NOT obvious.

            4. “Luck – Found the location by luck…I cannot tell how.” No, I’m sorry, you didn’t. There is no luck in play. That’s akin to “happening upon” the treasure chest, and you are describing Forrest’s “Sunday picnic” or “Spring Break” scenario. It is a logic puzzle to be solved. Correctly guessing WWWH is as likely as picking the correct blaze without solving the preceding clues.

            5. This should probably be #1, based on importance. “When you are at the correct location…Clue#3, #4, #5,…etc etc….will all fall into place.” This is why I know you have the wrong WWWH. You ignored my rather important question: if clues 3, 4, 5 and beyond are so obvious once you have the right starting location, please explain how the people that solved the first two clues — over 5 years ago — were unable to make further progress?

            You have already given yourself an out by admitting that you may not find it this weekend. That being the case, by Forrest’s own definition you do not have a “correct solve,” because otherwise you could KNOWINGLY walk to within a few steps of the treasure chest’s location.

            I do look forward to your report after the weekend is over, but please forgive those of us who have been around the block a few times for saying so: your story is an old one.

          • Tony Driver….don’t pay any attention. You just go on out there and have a grand ole time… that is what it is supposed to be about. So far the score is; Searchers O and Fenn 350K or so. Nobody here knows much except where the treasure isn’t. Oh… and be cautious.

          • Ken…message received. Thank you! A thanks in advance to any other positive comments.

          • Tony: Ken’s right — it’s the thrill of the chase! Sorry to take a dump in your cornflakes. Have a good time! Even if you’re unsuccessful, you’ll have all fall, winter and early spring to make adjustments. I would still recommend at least buying TTOTC — you are unnecessarily hurting your chances without that resource.

          • Tony

            I like the way this is working out.

            Do you see that my quote about Hubris has appeared just above Zap explaining why you are wrong?

            That is a quote from Zap’s very first comment to Dal on this site.

    • Agreed. As far as importance, only the last one. The question should be, is the blaze needed to solve clues afterwards? To the solve one clue to get to the next type of solvers, I would guess that it would be essential to find the blaze. To the people on the right track and reading the poem correctly, probably not a do or die thing. (lol, here it comes, lol)

      • Geez,

        Ya’ll take the fun out of winter… folks climb glaciers and snow cap mountains, cross country ski, hunt all day long and even camp for days in winter tracking their game… [ hunters in the tens of thousands every year, all over North America ].
        I’m not saying; go no matter what… but I’d bet the some of the winter enthusiast folks are giggling as well. Although, grant you, it’s not for everyone…

        • Seeker: to my way of thinking, snow and foul weather aren’t major deterrents to getting to the right spot. But if snow cover obscures a clue (that you can never see on Google Earth), that could be a problem. The challenge is hard enough without additional obstacles.

  24. In my opinion, MANY have seen the blaze but don’t recognize it in relation to the poem or clues. I have a theory to try out next search season.

    • Veronica, good luck with your theory. My theory is that not many people have
      seen the blaze.

      According to my theory, the blaze is not well-known, and is not indicated on any printed maps as a named, significant, or historical item. As always, IMO.

  25. This has been fun reading tonight.. Is Tony Driver suffering Rookie Fever, or does he have it? Do others think he is a fool, or are they secretly worried? I am also a Rookie, started the hunt just prior to Christmas 2017. I drove my son crazy for a while with all my “I know where it is!” Then, “Now I really know for sure” statements. And I really drove him nuts when at last I said, “Uh, I was in the wrong state. But now I know for sure.” And as an aside, I recently read Tarry Scant’s story about her/his first search in 2016 and the 10 Rookie mistakes made. Really could relate.

    I found my location in the Spring this year. I took 1 BOTG trip and failed to find the TC. Hundreds of miles after leaving I had that “aha!” moment. I had not solved all the clues and so I could not find the TC, but out on the open road far away from the location, something in the poem was suddenly simple and clear. And one more clue unlocked in my mind. Like a lot of folks here, I am certain I am in the correct location. Nothing is going to sway me except someone else actually finding the TC someplace else. But I also know I do not know where the chest is even now.

    I had considered making a trip before the weather changed. But I would just be going to the area and then poking around, like so many people do. I have ideas. Ideas about what to look for, what to do to find it, but these are still just ideas and not confirmed. What do I mean by confirmed? I mean that I am 100% certain of 6 of the 9 clues. I have some ideas/alternatives about 1 clue and I am fairly certain I understand 1 other clue. Maybe I solved one more clue and I am jut not calling it a clue, who knows, because 8 years after TTOTC was published people still don’t agree on what the clues are. I have my own methodology to confirm what a clue is based on my solve — which is why I can say 6 for sure, probably 7.

    What did FF say? Something like, It will be difficult but the person who finds it will move with confidence. I believe him. I believe he hid it so there would not be an accidental find by some yokel who had never even heard of the thrill of the chase. I believe it is so well hidden that even if you are working to solve the poem, just wandering around in the right area is not going to get you that chest.

    And I understand how a searcher could have solved the 1st 2 clues and then gone right past the others. That ATF comment totally works – you have to understand the geography, but also things like confirmation bias and search fever (you know, how your brain shuts down once you are BOTG and on the hunt.) What a lot of people miss about that, I think, is that these poor searchers have no idea it was them FF was talking about, or what solve it was where they blew right by the other 7 clues. They probably wrote that solve off years ago and are looking in another state. They missed the big picture and they just were not deep thinking.

    I think people for a long time misidentified what the clues were, I know I saw plenty of videos with people just counting off nine things in the poem and calling them clues. And I think that caused a lot of problems for the solvers because they were working off of wrong assumptions. I want to move confidently to the chest. Right now I can move confidently to a limited geographical area — and then look around and meditate on what I know. That leads to coming home empty handed.

    Does Tony know where it is? I don’t think so. The enthusiasm is just a wee bit too much like Rookie Fever that I suffered from last winter, I know the symptoms well. Tony, if you find it do us all a favor and post some photos – but I’m not holding my breath.

    Come spring I will return to my location. I hope by then I have more clues solved. I will go anyway, because there is knowledge to be gained in BOTG activity. And I like being physically present in my location. It’s gonna be a long winter!

    • Hunter….cool post! Yeah, let’s all just forget what I posted please. I didn’t realize inside threads are broadcast out to all who subscribe. Jiminy Christmas! We can chalk it up to rookie fever! I don’t know what I’m doing. The solve is all wrong. Nothing to see here….move along…move along. I’m done. I’ve said too much….and it’s probably all wrong anyway….of course….knowing the track record of rookies! : )

      • Aw Tony! You’re one of us now, and so it’s all good. I’m just saying . . . if you think no place for the meek is a steep cliff, someplace Joseph Meek did not go, or a landslide – then you’re wrong on your spot. It ain’t that easy. But enthusiasm – enthusiasm is wonderful.

        • You gotta think harder than that if you want to solve this thing Hunter…like “The MEEK shall inherit the earth”….but what does this rookie with 20yrs tech support experience know anyhow. If you don’t think out of the box, you’ll never get there buddy! The solve ain’t that easy! I do love your simplicity though. There is a time to be simple in the poem.

          Good luck folks!! ; )

      • Tony–I wish you well–Like those car keys,You shall find the Chest in the last place you look..Safe journy’s to you and yours..

          • Thunter and the other three nubes. It’s cool that you are hanging together and supporting ideas.

            How’s this for a theory.

            The Treasure will not be found before chasers have spent money equivalent to the value it’s very contents.

            How much have we spent? Million? Millions?

            How much are you putting in the jar?

            Lugnutz

          • Lug,
            My guess is that many times the value of the chest has been spent by searchers already. Most people have gotten their money’s worth in return through all of the intangibles you gain in the chase, and the ones who haven’t are going about it all wrong.

  26. The only positive to Tony D’s classic “I solved it, but I don’t have the chest yet” posting is that at least his time frame is short (i.e. this weekend). The “I’m definitely going to get it in 3 weeks and let me spout that every day for the next 3 weeks” people are the worst.

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