Home of Brown…

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This is for a discussion about “the home of Brown” in Forrest’s poem.

Got an HOB that didn’t work out…or maybe you need an HOB for a certain area…or perhaps you have an idea that needs some fleshing out..

This is the place to discuss all things HOB…

dal…

310 thoughts on “Home of Brown…

    • You should capitalize Brown, as the poem does. In answer to your question’s
      apparent intent, I suppose there’s a possibility . . . If you treat every clue as having many “layers”, then you might want to excuse “improper” (hee hee) use of capitalization — or lack thereof. I choose to be strict and proper about the traditional use of capitalization; it works for me.

      Is that a pith helmet? If so, is it warm?

      As always, IMO.

      • I would honestly have to say your overthinking it as a mixture of a few colors of any variety will give u a rich brown color, as if u mix ever color together itll give you a rich brown color, not black as most ppl seem to think, of with the exclusion of white and black, which doesnt belong to the RBG color pallete.

    • Forrest said that the clues refer to places. Since Brown is a clue, it’s probably a place, not a color or trout or bears…just my opinion

      • If I am following the author of this thread correctly, and as poisonivey just pointed out, Purple Mt. in Yellowstone could be considered as possible HOB because yellow and purple combine (mix) to make brown. Other colors that mix to brown are blue and orange as well as red and green. If we search for areas that reference the correct combination of these colors, could such be considered a HOB?

        • Bowmarc, it seems like that there are almost TOO many color combinations out there that can result in the color brown. Also add to your list: red & blue; red, yellow, & black; magenta, yellow, & black.

        • If we skip the idea of ‘mixing’… warm can represent a warm color, a comfortable color, Warm and Comfortable as an emotional attachment or fond feeling for and relate to waters of YS NP, but more specifically, YS river and/or lake.. hoB would not directly be related to a ‘color’.. but more hinting of a color in a clue.

          What’s Black and White and ‘red’ Read all over, line of thinking. Hinting to a ‘color’ and no so much a ‘brown’ color, for Where Warm Waters are, and being a separate place within the same area of said waters.. or even the area itself.

          So what do ya have? Start at YS lake – waters that halt ‘temporarily’ take it in the canyon down [ in this case North ] following the flow. NF, just follow the flow.. Unless ya’ll can walk on water that is.
          HoB? The mud pots? NPFTM the Grand daddy of the canyon down [described in the Washburn-Langford-Doane Expedition] , The end is ever drawing… End of the river? When it leaves the park? The end of the canyon? The end of the falls? _ the lower falls_ “Just HLnWH” – both falls?

          Would that fit on a posted note?

          Mixing colors make me dizzy…

          • Hello Seeker. In regards to the posted note holding the nine clues, I wonder if we should consider if it really can, and the hint is the color of it. Not sure if this is the case, but trying to look at everything possible.

          • I’m not one who think fenn hands out hints all the time, but for fun lets roll with it. Colors are mentioned in the book a lot. Red, Green, Black? a couple types of blues etc. The only real connection to the posted note idea would be YS.. the interesting part about that is; the chapter ‘In Love with Yellowstone’ which hardly talks about YS and more about the trip to, the family car, a place they would go off route to visit… so is the connection more about another place than YS? Does 1600 miles have a hint involve to the route taken, and for a reason? { I checked that once, the shortest route in the 1930’s and 40’s bypassed NM altogether. LOL bet the NM searcher don’t like that idea }

            I went with the 30’s and 40’s maps because the interstate highway system didn’t start until the mid 50’s. Traveling at 30 miles an hour… basically any road would work.. and non-stop over 55 hours to complete, with gas and restrooms.

            Where was I… on right! I can see hints, if I want to see hint, in a lot of fenn’s .. what is the correct though for a seeing a hint?

          • It seems so strange that a little girl IN India – with good English language skills and only the poem and a map of the Rocky Mountains – is unable to get any closer than the first two clues. I find it strange because, according to Forrest, she CAN solve the first two clues with such limited resources.

            Odd, isn’t it? Just thinkin’ out loud …
            Joe

          • Hi Seeker;

            I think I get what you are sayin’. 1600 miles in the 30’s and 40’s – averaging 30 MPH would have made for a very long trip – between 53 to 55 hours on the road – PHEW. Thanks for posting – Something new to ponder – JDA

          • Joe,

            I have many thoughts about Little Indy’s Q&A.
            I don’t adhere to the idea her map sucks, line of thinking, or she doesn’t have a drivers license, like some have stated…

            My simple answer, but not truly having an answer is; there is nothing involving; “planning” and “observation”… I can say the same about the Q&A; Nope, Nope.
            There seems to be a need to be on site [ other than the simple thought of picking up the chest ] and it seems the lack of “Imagination, planning, observing” that fenn tells us to do, starts at the first two clues.

            LOL but don’t ask me what that is… IDK. And maybe no one else who deciphered the first couple of clues knew either.
            IF I had to guess? It might be the idea of “take it in” and “left the poem”… most consider a movement, rather than, ‘take it in’ as a view or observation, and little or no imagination used. Not on a map, but on site… or the need to be there, in practice.

            Or maybe she didn’t have the right exchange rate in rupee’s for the amount of gas she needed to drive out clues… lol hey, I’m open to other reasons… well, to a point.

          • Seeker (response to 4:06 pm comment),
            Based on the way Jenny framed the LGII question, it’s my impression for a variety of reasons that any BOTG or U.S. visit was out of the question. With that (logical?) presumption, she would seem to be very limited with regard to perspective – what is she able to see from India through the eyes on either side of her nose?

            Though her mind is not a blank slate, we shouldn’t presume she has any level of knowledge of the U.S., but it’s likely she has a bit more information about The Chase than the “Nope, Nope” Q&A; after all, she does have the poem and the map in her possession.
            ( mysteriouswritings.com/featured-question-with-forrest-fenn-500-years-from-now/ )

            IMO, the Rockies map would need to be somewhat detailed for her to solve the first two clues, but with the right map, a sharp eye, a touch of creativity, and let’s presume good assimilation ‘reflexes’ and an ability to connect dots, it seems plausible to me she can solve them.

            Just opinions.
            Joe

          • Joe,
            We have fenn saying we don’t need to read the book, but it will help with the clues… we have Nope with nothing but the poem… Little Indy with the poem and a map… We also have WWH and In the mountains N.of SF. and could some one get there by those two clues? [oversimplifying the clues Q&A] and other Q&As and such…
            What they all seem to have in common is, not being on site.
            But we also have the first to clues deciphered, and searchers on site, yet those folks didn’t seem to know it, Yet the got there somehow. Folks going by the remaining clues, and people figured out the first couple clues and walked past the chest… or basically; They left the poem.
            How did the leave the poem and from what point?

            Fenn said that clues 3 & 4 seem to be stumping the searchers.. lol yet some get within 200′ and others within 500′. Something is missing. However, we have a more recent comment that some have four correct clues deciphered… but those/that searcher may not know they do. { I added the last one, because we don’t know it they were on site or just explaining their theory }

            Why, apparently, haven’t searcher understood the poem past the first two clues? IMO, the most logical answer is… one need to be on site at the first two clues { maybe even have them combined properly and not their references only- a certain spot to be at}. And the other reason being; we must use our imagination to proceed with what we see in front of us. In my thoughts, that is the difference between reading the poem as stomping point to point vs. observing the clues from a single vantage point… no movement need to go to the clues, just imagine how they all unfold before you…

            You can not get closer than the first two clues, because the other clues are visual from WWH and the canyon.

            In this case both wwh and canyon are need to work together in a single spot somewhere at the first two clues… also in theory… clues three and four work together in understanding where to stand at. Stanza three is everything you see, from ‘below’ hoB [in this case the canyon itself, possibly – NPFTM]… leaving HLnWH very near to where you are… at the first two clues. So, the conclusion might be; nobody can get closer than the first two clue, because IF you leave, you walk by everything and leave the poem, no matter which direction you leave to go to where.

            That’s what I call a small scale solve. “Your destination is small, but the location is huge.” Where you start is your small ‘destination’ in a huge location with all the clues visual from the starting point… I think fenn is telling us what e sees standing at the chest, and the blaze. And the reason to nail down WWWH or we don’t have notta. How do you know the blaze?… when you can see all the clues from a single point… Just HLnWH

            If you’ve been wise and found [ discover – have knowledge of WWH = HLnWH] you have discovered the blaze intended to be found. IMO the direct path to “Follow”- listening to the instruction, will “lead” [ show you ] The blaze, in the wood. And I’ll give my opinion; it will be on somewhere on the CD. Because I think NPFTM also references the CD as the backbone of the RM’s Hence “brave’ and in the wood.
            Hopefully no where near 10,200 feet either.

            “There no substitute for thinking and analyzing and planning and observation, Unless your desire is to keep it simple.” Thanks Craig.

            Fenn left his car, walked the most direct route to the hide, he followed [viewing them] the clues to the hide. hid the contents…Rinse and Repeat.. hid the chest with the contents within, and walked less than a few mile [two trip] back to his… from the first two clues nailed down spot. He married the clues to “A” place on a map… ‘joined’ – contiguously them together.

            Pardon me now… I have to make an over sea call to Little Indy, so she an tell me where WWWH is at. or have her mail it to me on a posted note.

          • Seeker,
            I can only express what I feel works best for me, so take everything with copious amounts of salt because I’m just another failing searcher.

            I feel many searchers compound the difficulty of The Chase by focusing on many of Forrest’s post-TTOTC comments. IMO, this is detrimental and counter-productive when attempting to solve the poem as his comments are typically just as highly interpretive as the key phrases in the poem. IMO, the focus should be on the poem, the poem, and the poem – in that order.

            Regarding 200/500 feet, I’ve always believed the entire poem should be solved prior to BOTG. As such, I believe searchers may correctly resolve the early part of the poem, leave it at some point, but through their wanderings and with their focus on the endpoint or special spot they’ve derived from the poem, still manage to get within 200/500 feet. It’s also possible, IMO, F’s 200’/500′ comments were metaphoric in nature, or there’s simply another meaning intended. Regardless, if a searcher feels they have a reasonably solid poem solution, would they physically linger at or near its beginning, or even go there, while BOTG? Spoiler alert: IMO, there are many (crow) miles between the two most extreme map points identified in the poem.

            In your “small scale solve,” how do you reconcile all the clues being in a small area and being able to see all the clues from a single vantage point when “[its] location is huge”?

            Regarding “followed” as in “I followed the clues when I hid the treasure” (paraphrased), have you considered other definitions?

            With regard to the LGII, please be careful and don’t dox her. Nobody wants to hear about another hatchet-man incident.

            Again, all opinions from a failing searcher, so FWIW.
            Joe

          • Joe,

            “Follow” can mean in ‘understanding’ rather than physical. The same for “lead” to me show, rather than being pulled by a leash, idea. This might revolve around the idea of the poem being a more, show n tell, rather than a point to point stomping.

            Huge can take on two meanings, one of size and also of importance. So the idea is “seeing” the big picture from a single vantage point. Example; look at any picture of the Grand Canyon AZ. What do you see? Now imagine how it became… a view and and understanding.

            Your original post involved the Little Indy scenario. I added Nope’s dilemma as well, and searcher who had the first two clues… the scenario I presented as all in one location [ the first two clues] but not understand why this location is needed. It’s possible that all can be at this location and not realize it is there ending point as well. In that scenario… nailing down the first clues implies a very ‘fix’ spot to view over a large area where the descriptions of the clues are within… a very specific spot.

            So back to the Canyon is AZ… Huge, right? where is the point we need to be at along that canyon? WWH [ or it’s true reference ] should help, but even then, we still need to find that “nailed down” spot, line of thinking. In this theory / hypothetical scenario… HLnWH references WWH [one in the same], and might help with that fix spot we need to be at from the start.

            So, look out over a canyon from a fix point at the first two clues, tight focus on what hoB might be, Drawing [ meaning; pulling toward ] back to your viewing station everything describe in stanza 3 .. right back to you.. possible standing at something referencing HLnWH @ WWH somewhere along the canyon ridge.

            No one can not get closer than the first two clues… it’s all about perception. You are at where you need to be… IF you are ‘exactly’ at where you are told to be. IMO… lol you’re looking at it all from the blaze. Does this explain why it would be impossible to find the blaze without WWH first?

            We’re just BSing our ideas and thoughts here… I personally think the stomping method is so popular because; we think to linear and literal, only involving movement of a searcher.
            So the ‘places’ the clues represent can be in a huge area, but we may not have to travel all those places. Each place would still have a geographical location, and all married to ‘A’ place on a map.. Married as in; united, blend, combined. linked, merge into the big picture.

            But again, we’re just BSing about thoughts and idea. Either of us could be right or we could both be all wet. I’m looking at this as, everything everyone as done is screwed up some how, and it all starts getting haywired, right at the start.

          • Joe –

            I am glad you are not blinded by all the words here.
            The take away from Forrest’s response about the Little Girl In India has nothing to do with NOT getting any closer.

            The take away is that anyone can solve the first two clues with just the poem and a map of the Rockies.

      • Francis, I think that the idea here is interpreting “home of Brown” with “home” meaning “origin” (e.g.: Temple, TX being the “home” or “hometown” of Forrest Fenn).

        So the origin, or home, of the color brown could possibly be a reference to the colors mixed to make it.

        I suppose one could also look at a geographic location as being the symbolic origin of the color brown as well. The Mud Volcano or the Artist Paintpots in Yellowstone National Park come to my mind as a couple of examples for place like this.

        • That’s right Blex, a home can be an origin. An origin of brown can be other colors. It does seem like a bit of a stretch, but just throwing it out there to see what other people think about it.

  1. I found my solve at the Fremont Canyon but there was no where to put in at the memorial for Brown. You could not see this on a map. Now, I know all about the horrible murder, suicide and the location of the over-turned bull boat in Osborn Russell’s writings. Was I upset? No, this was my 3rd check and BOTG of a solve which aligned perfectly on a map. The giddiness or thrill of going to the solve can only be felt not described. Forrest knew this as has searched similar clues. The Fremont Canyon is also one of the most beautiful canyons on earth. I cannot wait to check out my next solve, but I am stuck at the HOB. Everything else matches up…

    • Looks like more in the sagebrush than “in the wood”.
      I made this mistake early on in the Chase.
      Also kinda desert area.
      I need more trees.

    • Maybe hoB is not a clue. Maybe you don’t “put in” like you would think. hoB could simply be a dead fallen tree the chest sits under. Don’t put to much emphasis on it and what do you have as far as a solve? If everything else matches up, maybe hoB, if it is a clue (which I doubt), is a BotG type of clue. In which case you would not know until you had the chest.
      For anybody to throw away a solve because a clue for them doesn’t match up is foolish. First off, you don’t know if it is actually a clue or not. Except for wwwh and the blaze.
      If you feel you solved the poem, and everything matches up to a point that if you posted the solve, you see nowhere that anybody could argue, then I would stick to it. There is a lot of info and hints, I would try to find as many as possible, to help confirm. If you notice that your solve starts with a guess of some place, then a whole re-evaluation may be in order.

    • @Wyoming Lover, if you cannot interpret home of Brown from your previous solve why not take note of all you see there anyway? because it likely won’t be obvious as none of the clues are obvious, or people would have figured them out by now, but keep in mind all the answers might be simple enough.

  2. There was clip or a story about Forrest talking about all the different shades of brown. Does anyone remember where this was?

      • I thought that Forrest only said that the treasure itself is not hidden in a cave. I’m not seeing anything that would rule out hoB being a cave.

        • Ok guys.. finish the thought… You’re at hoB being a cave. What’s NPFTM or the end of something?
          I guess I’m asking; how a cave would work coming from one place and going to another.. I mean, fenn state caves and mines are dangerous, right? I would assume you might be thinking the cave as, a home for a bear or something… what’s the cave for, to represent home of Brown?

          • My thinking is a winter home for the Brown bear. But I was thinking that if one were following a river and passed a cave on the hill by the river, it would be the reason to ‘put in’ and change course to follow a creek nearby upstream?

          • Simpleton,
            Most bears don’t hibernate in a cave, Most bear dens are tight and more like a big hole for the purpose of retaining the animals body heat. A cave is normally much larger.

            My point is… how do you defined a cave for the purpose of hoB, as a bear’s home, for each cave?
            I’m not saying a bear doesn’t wander into a cave now and then… only that its rare for one to hibernate in a large open area… My example would be to google caves vs. bear dens to see my point.
            A “cave” doesn’t automatically refer to bears, is my point, and hard press for ‘me’ to think it would represent hoB as a clue.

            Too be honest… I know very little about Grizzlies habits. But i would think for the idea of a cave, black bears don’t bother with them much at all. Unless prey was chased into one.

            Just my thoughts on caves and hoB for bears.

          • I really wonder about the person(s) who chose that name. Plus Google sometimes takes you down some strange search results. I walked into that and I haven’t stopped laughing yet.

          • Seeker, most of what you said is correct but it’s not unheard of for a grizzly to den in a small cave. That being said, bears are stereotypically portrayed as living in caves. At this point, I’m just trying to re-examine everything. Obviously, there is something we are all missing or else someone would have found the treasure already.

          • There are plenty of caves out there located along the walls of canyons. I was merely thinking of a cave as a waypoint, without any requirement for one to actually need to go into the cave. So one would be looking for a creek to go up a bit downstream from a cave located in a canyon.

            And a cave could also be home to brown bats perhaps?

          • I’m reminded of the comment, “Most” of the clue “reference” were around when fenn was a kid.
            Assuming a clue reference [ in this case ] being a place/location… ya have to wonder if Brown is something that came after fenn was a kid, line of thinking.

            Many time when I read the poem with different thoughts rolling around, I always seem to think about things that have been, and should be, years from now. So the WhatIF idea is, can we ‘know beforehand’ what hoB refers to or only when on site? LOL we might be knocking our brains out for nothing.

            This would imply a need to nail down clue 1 to discover a clue later on [ex. hoB] rather than guessing… the observing part of the challenge, the imagination part of the solve… maybe even the planning?
            I mean, with all the emphasis on “wwh” or bust… hoB may not be known of without the first clue, and why folks may have walked by everything else. They went ‘looking’ for and ‘idea’ rather than trying to find it…

    • Yes. Avalanche lake above hebgen lake. There are two levels of an upper meadow and a lower level. The cave is on the second level. The strange thing about it is when you reach the lake on the first level you can’t tell there is a second level. The pine trees are scant. Lots of mesquitos.

      • I agree with all that. But avalanche lake is a good 4-5 mile hike uphill and I just think it’s too far for him to have done the trip twice in a day. I’m looking for something that might be visible from the Madison river or hebgen lake.

    • What about a title?
      If Brown represents something that requires a capital letter for a reference… does brown need to be capped or the title it represent is capitalize [ meaning; the clue is hinting at whatever Brown refer to is meant to be capped ]

    • Forrest Fenn was a trustee and large donator to the Buffalo Bill Cody Museum of the West. A pair of the other trustees and large donators at this Museum who know Forrest Fenn own a gallery in Cody, Wyoming. They also live in Cody, Wyoming. One of them is the Mayor Brown of Cody, Wyoming. So you put in below her home town Cody, Wyoming…. This is the road that goes through a Canyon passes Colters Hell and enters Yellowstone National Park. Forrest Fenn wrote about this place in the Thrill of the Chase last page after the poem. He also donated gold and Joseph Sloane pictures of Indians and cabin to the Buffalo Bill Cody Center of the West. His family always drove this way to enter and leave Yellowstone Park for well over twenty years…

      • Mike;

        Where did you get your information that : “. His family always drove this way to enter and leave Yellowstone Park for well over twenty years…”? I have never seen this printed. Thanks in advance.

        Why wouldn’t they have gone through Jackson, the Tetons, and then to West Yellowstone, instead of going up what is now hwy 20 to Cody and through the park to get to West Yellowstone?

        Just curious as to where you got your information – JDA

        • I don’t care much about the route… but fenn did say his father would drive 50 miles [ I think it was ] out of the way to visit an old school house.

        • Seeker: I think that “factoid” may fall in the 15% category. As if the drive wasn’t long enough, ole’ Principal Fenn’s going to take a 50-mile detour in a car stuffed with luggage, his wife, and three cranky kids (“Are we there yet??”) and no A/C just to show ’em a sentence he could easily quote from memory?

          • 1500+ miles and 5 days from Temple and you’re worried about another 100 miles?

            I would make you walk the rest of the way from the schoolhouse.

          • Jake: so everything in TTOTC is gospel to you? You really think he wound a ball of string so large that it wouldn’t fit through his bedroom door? That he could grind an agate into a modestly round marble in Spanish class in an hour with a piece of sandstone? That they really roped a buffalo and tied the other end to the front axle of Skippy’s car?

            Forrest warns right up front: “one of my natural instincts is to embellish just a little.”

          • Zap,
            Your reply comment had nothing to do with my comment.
            Now you can walk all the way to the home of Brown.

          • Zap,
            A/C didn’t hit the manufacturing auto line till 1939ish
            Mr.Fenn did sell the first car until Forrest was a bit old… how many summers did they drive with no A/C or camp-out with little comfort most have today.
            I’d have to wonder if the school [TX] even had A/C.
            And I dare say, if anyone is going on an outing for 3 months, you would bring the thing for that amount of time… In the 1930 -40’s. Point is; it was a different time and many didn’t have the little expensive luxuries or an outlet to plug them into on that kinda trip.
            Heck, they were milking a cow for the drink…Grandma had free range chicken eggs… fenn shot birds for dinner [ I wonder who cleaned those?]
            7 elevens were a bit scarce in those days. But I have to agree the kids had to be cranky… no game-boy, idiot phone, in car TV and a radio that probable could pick up a radio station for most of that 1600 mile road trip… The poor kids. It must have been hell on wheels to take a detour.

          • Hi Seeker: the lack of A/C comment was really an afterthought to the basic unpleasantness of 1500-mile car journeys of Forrest’s childhood days. Even when I crossed country from VA to CA (2600+ miles) in a compact car with no A/C and only an AM radio for “entertainment” in August 1984, my torture was nothing compared to Fenn’s because I could at least drive it at 75 mph on the flat (i.e. all of Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Iowa and Nebraska). Forrest maybe had one advantage: he didn’t have to hear “Stuck on You” twenty times while crossing the Midwest.

          • Jake: how do you not see the relevance? My comment gave clear examples of why you shouldn’t assume William Fenn supposedly deliberately drove 100 miles out of his family’s way — EVERY YEAR, BY THE WAY — just so they could see the same saying written above a 1-room schoolhouse.

          • Zap…whether they drove out of their way every year just to see a sentence on a building… or not… does not mean much to me. I think the take-away may simply be about not being remiss about the effort to *learn*… and to pass it along.

          • As a kid, we drove everywhere in our non-A/C equipped van and I never noticed a problem. We had no A/C at the house either and I didn’t know that I was supposed to need it. I think it’s dangerous to assume a kid back in 1940 thinks anything like a kid in today’s world. I loved our cross-country trips because it was the only time I was allowed to drink soda and it beat mowing lawns and doing house chores.

          • Jake: it was every year in the book:

            “So we drove 35 miles an hour for 1,600 miles with no air conditioning or radio. Even so, my father always drove about 50 miles out of our way; down a little dirt road to a one-room school house in Wyoming, just to show me what was written over the door. “He Who Teaches a Child Labors with God in His Workshop .” He was so proud about that.”

        • @JDA – Earlier today I was viewing a youtube video link to a Fenn interview and remember him mentioning his father’s annual route to YS. Fenn was talking about how gas was rationed (had to use coupons) and how it took them 5 days to get to YS because his dad only drove 30mph. I cannot remember the link, but it is posted on here somewhere—the first provided link was broken as the video content was being disputed, but someone else posted the aforementioned youtube link and it still worked. Long story short, I think that is where the route was defined by FF and is what Mike might be referring to.

  3. Don (in Irish) means Brown
    Could Forrest’s friend Donnie Joe, have had his ashes scattered at 10,000 ft by Forrest?
    Anyone know where he was buried? I can’t find any place yet.

    Or were ‘Don ______’s ’ home a place to look?
    Look at Forrest’s friends named Don, maybe?

    I like the thought of rowing …putting in at BN = Ben
    (B -‘row’ +N=BN)
    …as in Ben Franklin,
    as in $100,
    as in century,
    as in ‘bacon’,
    as in biscuits,
    as in cash,
    or as in a county road 100.

  4. Cimmaron in Spanish means brown. Also, Cleveland is the home of NFL team Browns. The last one is a reach but both are logical.

  5. Also, I keep going back to the fact that Fenn suggested a child might be helpful in solving the poem so I’m trying to think of more simple interpretations of the clues. For example, Hebgen lake. Why couldn’t that be home of Brown trout?

    • Simpleton,
      May I ask how long you been involved with the challenge?

      The reason I ask, is you use the term child. The comments I recall, “Kids” were used. The one comment about a child was in reference to a child walking up to the chest… fenn, more or less correct the searcher who stated “child,” saying a three year old would need assistance to get to the chest.

      I’m curious to the age group you “might” think fenn was talking about when he mention; kids may have an advantage?
      LOL it’s been a discussion for years on the age of a kid vs the term child. And many blogger use “child” in the same manner, even though they can’t produce a comment from fenn using ~ a child could solve it or help solve it. So how simple is this for thinking? I mean, one of the earliest comments was; the poem is difficult but not impossible.

      Here’s a Q&A for and example;
      Q~ Forrest, you talk about the clues being difficult to solve (opposite being easy) yet that the solutions are simple (opposite being complex). Yet when I read the stories of other searchers, I often think that their solutions to the clues tend to be either easy solutions or made out to be very complex and over-thought. Are there any suggestions you would give in approaching the clues and solving them? ~Craig
      A~Craig, there is no substitute for thinking and planning and observing and looking at maps, **unless it’s the desire to keep it simple.f**

      How much of that answer would a child be helpful with?
      Just a curious question…

      • Another comment, just for thought…

        “The poem in my book is something that I changed over and over again. When you read the poem it looks like just simple words there. But I guarantee you that I worked on that. I felt like an architect drawing that poem.”

        • I belive the comment that a kid would have an advantage to interpret the clues may refer that a kid dont come with the same bagage and preconceptions as we adults have been “learned”. Simplified i belive that bicycle Youtube video shows it really well.

          Regards from a fellow treasure Hunter from sweden/ erland

          • Johan from Sweden,
            Thank you for a very insightful post, and I believe you’ve hit the nail squarely on the head! Your comment begs the question: Why don’t youthful minds have the same baggage and preconceptions as more aged minds? But if we twist that question a bit, we might ask: Why can’t more aged minds cogitate without the baggage and preconceptions that seem to constrain older minds?

            As we age, does our mind become ‘locked in’ to think in specific ways based on our experiences, beliefs, biases, and opinions? The youthful mind is inquisitive, malleable, and open to new ideas and concepts, but why can’t the aged mind maintain these same attributes? Are we willing to accept as a fact of life that the aging mind eventually becomes a closed mind? Or, could it be a simple matter of choosing between a mind that is closed versus one that is open?

            If we remove all the layers, it seems to pare down to this: When we’re confronted with a debate, argument, or puzzling thought, can we choose to be objective and open-minded regardless of our age? Are F’s ‘youth’ comments intended to be literal, or should we be ‘Looking’ deeper?

            Stirrin’ the pot …
            Joe

          • One potential theory is fluid versus crystalized. Another is that around the age of 30 the human brain reaches maturity. Like our bones we become a lot less flexible unless we stretch. Yoga for the mind anyone?

          • Without getting into a bunch of philosophical reasoning…fenn may have hinted at the idea when he stated is mind set is of a 13 year old.
            Simply reading the poem as an adventure, an exploration, not unlike the L&C story… instead of a fixated goal to find a box of gold.

            Should the stomping point to point method be the idea behind the process of the challenge… shouldn’t we ask why fenn chose the clue ‘reference’ rather than just where each point is?
            Are they all connected is a way that is needed to be known of, even before deciphering what and where? And, could knowing the location of the clues ‘beforehand’ tell us what the connection might be about so we ‘can’ decipher the clues correctly?

            Just rambling and rumbling……..

          • We spend our whole lives consciously training our subconscious to do things a certain way. To make changes to our way of thinking we have to make a conscious effort to do so.

      • Seeker, I’ve been involved for a few years. But my use of the word child v. kid isn’t important and obviously the ages they encompass can be somewhat subjective . If I had to put a number on it I would say age 7-13. However, My point is that I’ve gotten the feeling that Forrest is trying to tell us to keep it simple so I’m trying to come at things from that perspective for awhile. We are all missing something and the more we discuss the more likely it is that somebody will eventually put it all together. At this point, I just want somebody to find the treasure so i can stop obsessing about it.

        • I believe (not correct in excerpt) that FF said during interviews …. will take your “kids” camping, fishing, looking for fossils and turn over logs to look for the treasure.
          He said the phrase (not the one above) many times in countless interviews and it was almost word for word each time.
          This is no red herring. He is telling searchers and giving clues that the chest is near camping, fishing, and fossils……and that a kid could find it. It is not in some far off remote place, especially where a 79/80 man could not go. There are not many 79/80 year old men who could hoof it up and down a remote canyon. My dad, who is healthy and a retired Marine, drove an eighteen wheeler until 81 and I can assure you he could not at 79/80, remote hike out west and too far off from a parking area.
          The chest is where most of the population can go with relative ease. FF wants all to have an equal chance at finding it, not just the hardcore outback, remote searchers.
          I’m sure this post will undoubtedly be met with fierce resistance and skepticism. If so, take your shots, it’ll be nothing new.
          Not to stray too far. I think a kid plays into this solve as the TC is where a kid could find it.
          Just my two cents.

          • No resistance from me Tarheel. The point about children being involved reminds me of Fenn’s comment about kids having an *advantage* and not wanting to explain that. The imagination can run wild with that thought and the intended meaning… but in general I believe it is pertinent and a kid has just as good a chance as anyone.

          • Also reminds me of this one… ” The biggest clue of all is: Don’t look for the treasure any place where an 80 year old man could not have taken it. That eliminates half the places where people are looking.”
            So… which half of the people is he talking about?

          • Ken;

            I always interpreted this as Indulgence is someplace low – like under an overhang – A place a child could easily go to (under) and an adult would have more difficulty – JMO – JDA

          • I don’t think the comment was relating all 80 yr olds. While I agree with your concept the challenge was meant kids and families of all age… I think fenn was only talking about himself as ‘at age almost 80’.
            I’m also reminded an interview where Shiloh was present { I believe } and said something to the affect about; the two of them walking/hiking around above 8000′ at age 80 or more.
            If some are interested in looking it up, I’m sure it’s in the media section of the blog. But don’t ask me which interview… I don’t remember.

          • JDA… I do keep that thought in mind too. Like I said…the imagination can run wild what his intended meaning was. For example: Is the problem we are trying to solve really that basic that a child can see what we fail to?
            Yeah Seeker, his comment may only refer to himself at 80. The rest of the comment kind of adds the perspective that it may be more restrictive than you think. At 80, before cancer ate my dad he was still out in the bush on 3 week hunts… but still not like what some folks may think. This comment that I am referring to was from People magazine 2017.

          • I’m with you tarheel. One of the first videos I watched which was just a couple weeks ago was when he fielded questions from a little girl a few times and she was asking if a kid could find it and something else’s similar and both times FFD replies your dangerous and yes a kid could find it. I believe most of the wolves I have seen are from far fetched deep thinking,over thinking the poem. Fish, hike ,camp, where an 80 yr old man can go packing weight.

          • Ken,

            I was more or less responding to Traheel’s idea.

            Distance, imo, doesn’t really matter when I think about who and where anyone can go.
            Terrain is another story. If a solve has you climbing over many large rock near a fast running creeks, walking up steep inclines, hiking in and out out a canyon [twice]… I doubt it will be a correct solve.

            ~ If you can’t make two trips from your car to your solve in several hours, then don’t go.

            While this is a guide line idea, there should be some truth it the hours spent hiking. Even if it’s only a 1/2 mile one way and done in two hours. Nothing in the comment implies where the clues start.

            Personally, I think that’s about all there might be involved… approx 1/2, or a tad more, mile into an area where the clues are located. But I was always curious to why add two trips?
            Especially when fenn recommends; Never search alone or when nighttime temperatures are low or when there is snow on the ground.
            Safety in numbers, I guess… but why mention to trips if someone is there to help carry things?

            Or is implying if one is alone… However with both comments ‘listed together’ they should equate to the same idea.
            It has to have some truth involved.

            On the flip side he also say; If you are going into rough country it is probably best to leave your pets at home.
            He’s not telling anyone where they can’t be at, just not ‘search’ where an 80 yr old can’t go carrying a heavy backpack. How far off the grid doesn’t seem to be a problem… but at the location seems to be another story.. I mean, how hard would it be to drive up a service road for a 5 miles, in the middle of nowhere and hike from there a half mile in?

          • Sure Seeker… all of that is plausible and more and I agree that the comment has to be used as a truth when deciding how to use it with a potential solve/area. My comment was more tongue in cheek… which half does that comment eliminate?

          • Hi Seeker: if there is one confounding pair of ATF quotes from Forrest, they are:

            “Don’t go into the mountains alone. Two searchers together is an absolute minimum, but three or even four is better. Stay within eyesight of each other. A whistle can be valuable if you get separated.”

            “If you have a searching partner, best to have them wait in the car.”

          • Zap,

            I’m responding while listen to PD link…
            Yep, a conundrum… One thought, this was around the time Randy’s dog was found, related? IDK. But I personally don’t like the idea, especially in summer leaving your pet/search partner in a car?
            The other thought could be… a reason for two trips might be because of ‘size’ or ‘tightness’ of the actual hide ‘spot’ ~ a hint, if you will, that it’s only room for one?
            I used the example of Rock City TN once. { lol the poem fits perfect there…} But the point is; some of the area is very tight for two to walk through side by side and ‘ducking’ is needed in other parts..yet.. it’s all out in the open. You’re snaking through crevasses and passages ways In the Smokys.

            But I’m still up in the air on those comments.

          • Zap –

            Those two comments do not in any way contradict each other.

            And that’s because he is talking about searchers in one case and retrievers in the other.

            You do not need anyone with you to walk up and grap it.

            If, on the other had, you are just hiking around the mountains of Montana don’t go alone.

            Or Wyoming

          • Lugnutz: that doesn’t fly with me. Retrieving solo will likely require two trips; why not cut the time in half (and marginally increase your safety in the process) by going together?

          • Zap –

            We are not on the same page, so le me retry.

            I am talking about Fenn’s response in context. In one case he is commenting about retrieving the treasure chest. In the other case he was referring to the process of wandering around aimlessly in the Rockies thinking of yourself as being a searcher of the treasure.

            Fenn, not me.

            I would not need anyone to accompany me whether retrieving or searching because I believe Forrest and therefore I would never go anywhere even remotely dangerous.

            He could have just as easily said, Because you are not listening to me you need to take someone with you on your wild goose chase!

          • Ken or Seeker: can you help me out here in trying to decipher what Lugnutz is saying? He’s right that I’m definitely not on the same page with him. Lugnutz: you talk about the context of the statements. But there was ZERO context for the “If you have a searching partner…” statement. It was a stand-alone line on MW. Can you give me your translation of this single declarative statement from Fenn?

          • Hello zaphod. Do you believe the statement might give a slight hint to a geographical location?

          • I kinda agree with Lugz…

            The idea. if you’re out looking for the treasure [ lets call that a “general solve” ] play it ‘safe’ and bring friends.

            If you have the “solve” [ The idea of being certain, not working of a hunch, but the idea of “what took me so long” – smack i the head ] There would be no need for a second hand, or maybe as I suggested, where the chest lays in wait is only large enough for one, line of thinking.

            Am I in the ballpark, Lugz?

          • Well Zap…if you say yes…Lugnutz will say no. As far as those two comments are concerned… it is probably risky to bet the farm on any single idea…. as with the majority of Fenn’s comments. I will say that CONTEXT may have some bearing though. Remember that the safety in numbers comment was from a list of tips as a response to someone with concerns for safety. In light of the unfortunate accidents involving the Chase… Fenn does need to stress ALL safety tips. The other comment is more dubious as it comes as a single one-liner from a MW entry… and maybe Fenn was just being Fenn. Truthfully… those comments don’t weigh on me enough to waste too much energy on. Safety should always be foremost on the top of the list.

          • Zap –

            The “context” for the comment about not going alone was the disappearance of Randy Bilyeu. I believe you were on the site then. F sent a bunch of weekly words to Jenny that could be posted while he stepped back from the Chase.

      • FF’s dad said “you don’t want to go up there. There are bears up there. Put in below the home of Brown? Also there is Blaze lake and if you look quickly down you see cold lake. I thing it was called cold or chilly. Can’t remember. Lightning lake is up there too. Little sister, big brother lake. Tons of lakes up high.

    • Simple-
      The excuse most folks use against Hebgen Lake (or any other lake) being used as HOB is related to the argument over the capitalization of the word “Brown”. Many people feel that the word “brown” in Brown Trout or Brown Bear or Brown Bat or etc…is not typically capitalized and if it is not typically capitalized then using the home of a brown bear or brown trout or brown bat would not be appropriate for the clue. In fact, we find it both capitalized and not capitalized in scientific and popular articles.

      For many searchers, a stronger solution for HOB would be to use Brown as a human name…as in the home of Stanley Brown or Eunice Brown.

      So using Hebgen Lake (or any other lake not named Brown Lake) as HOB generally is determined by how one falls on the use of the capital “B” in the poem vs it’s use in scientific and popular writing and, possibly more important, Forrest’s own use in his earlier stories.

      • It seems to me that since the Chase has begun, people have either bee-lined toward any geographic feature that shows up on a map with the name “Brown”, or any site or feature that is somehow connected through research with a historical figure named “Brown”. Forrest has responded to a couple of questions in which it appears he does not believe knowledge of typonomy or U.S. history are important in solving the poem.

        I feel like there is a different perspective that one needs to take in unraveling what hoB refers to, but what that exactly is I have no idea at the moment.

      • Thanks for the reply Dal,

        In my opinion, I don’t think it’s out of the question for Forrest to use a capital B for Brown bear, etc. Like you said, it is found both ways in both scientific and popular writings. Same with Brown trout. I just can’t help but think that Forrest wouldn’t use something associated with a proper name (Home of Molly Brown). Those types of things are too transient and may not be the same or recognizable 100 years from now. I think it’s more likely that all of his clues are geographic features that are longer lasting.
        Also, he has said that no special knowledge is required and to know that somebody named Brown did something near some creek 100 years ago seems a little specialized. Obviously, none of us have the answer but those are some of my thoughts.

        • Hi Simpleton, Not only transient, but to many to count, and not the least bit clever. I think being clever is important to Mr. Fenn. IMO

      • I’ve always struggled with Brown as a person’s name being “specialized knowledge” but I don’t think it can completely be ruled out so here we are…

    • One HOB that I liked was the Ciengullia creek out of EagleLake and can’t disprove it still but had trouble finding my way through to a make sense end. I’ve always liked NM anyway but that’s just me. Eagle Nest Lake is a clear gem in itself and and if there is anything there in human treasure terms I’d be ok with her keeping them. I will still go there to visit still giving searching a sideways look

      • Obvious connection in Ciena and sienna like wise with Lone Eagle and Eagle I and it takes you in fully. I’m just wondering now and questioning if names are totally relevant. If f ‘s poem had referenced clear gem stones should I run not walk to Diamond Mountain? Granted the Pacific Ocean will be just that for a long time, It’s possible what something is called holds no prize and if it does it’s coincidental.Still unsure and just guess thinking

  6. Simpleton I with you on the obsession view.It can get like that and easily too. You have plenty of company. Personally I’ve always been on the outside of things until I got Chased in so I’m grateful for rare and mysterious inclusions

  7. Wind river Indian reservation is a hob…….as you enter from the south side of it right at the boysen reservoir you have to go through a tunnel! That would be a literal put in below the home of brown…..boysen reservoir is also fed by hot springs…and as you go down river (but going north) your taking it into the wind river canyon ………

  8. Locations and clues may silently speak their own names for centuries I think.How have I gotten so involved. Must breakfast soon or I will be alone forever

    • I can easily swim in that school but question it when I think about it in the context of forever. Just to be clear I ‘m FWBld

    • What happens to HOB when a new record setting trout gets caught in an entirely different spot in NM, one hundreds of miles away from the current record setting spot? I guess it would boil down to researching when the poem was written and cross referencing the record setting trout/location for that time frame? IMO, a record setting trout is beyond the knowledge of an average searcher who has just the poem, the book, and a map as a reference, but if it works for your solve, I wish you the best of luck finding Indulgence.

      • Disregard the record brown trout statement then. I’m just giving you the location. It’s the waters where it was taken. Indulge in that

          • Lol. It’s better than some of these other far fetched deep thinking revelations. Y’all over thinking the clues man.

          • Yes, it seems to get cyclical after a while—-over thinking, followed by simplification, then over simplification followed by purism entrenched in big picture/deep thinking logic, ad infinitum. I’m not sold on warm waters being NM fish and game defined warm fishing areas and again wish you luck in your search endeavors based upon your assumption that it is.

  9. I have come to a conclusion that “ Brown “,
    Was the key word! Imo
    I have an issue with the white, what are white clouds? Bones are white, salt white, white rocks?
    Stars look white?
    Thanks all !

    • I’m not seeing the connection between you thinking Brown is the key word and excluding white as the key word. Can you elaborate on why your are excluding white? Did I miss someone else stating the key word is white?

    • Hello The Patriot. I believe Mr. Fenn isn’t Catholic, unless he converted. Yesterday, this monastery was on my mind because of the word “alone,” which etymology says the name “monk” has a meaning of “alone”. Mr. Fenn’s comments of “think(ing)” may suggest meditation.

    • It was their fear of heights that caused the monks to develop their monastery in the desert and not somewhere in the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe.

      • Priceless – and I hope your bark is worse than your bite!

        For those who haven’t visited the monastery, it is beautiful and very peaceful. The monks are welcoming, and there are designated monks that are allowed to speak if you need that sort of thing. There are nice cabins to rent and the grounds are lovely as well. It is a wonderful retreat for silent contemplation.

      • I don’t know the area, but it looks like this place is in a canyon, in the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe. For those who know this area, I would like to know your opinion, please.

      • Hello aardvarkbark. Your comment about fear of heights reminds me of the scrapbook about George Montgomery (?) being afraid of heights. I remember there was something recently mentioned about fear of heights.

        • Hello pdenver. You were away for awhile. Happy to see you back.

          My comment about heights was pure flippancy, to be honest. I was making light of the fact that, by their very name, these good monks declare that they are in the desert. There is no desert in the Rocky Mountains.

          I don’t have the exact quotes, but one time, f told someone ‘don’t waste your time searching in the desert.’ Another time, he said that a good understanding of geography of the Rocky Mountains would be useful.

          To your question one above the one to which I am replying, I know this area. There is some great hiking south of the monastery along the rim of the Chama River canyon.

          A good map of the Rocky Mountains in NM can be found here:

          https://geoinfo.nmt.edu/tour/provinces/southern_rocky_mountains/home.html

          The Tusas are east of 84. The monastery is decidedly west of 84.

          Also, FWIW, note that according to geologists, the Jemez are not technically in the Rocky Mountains.

      • Hi Jmeils, I believe that poetry was meant to be recited. So, I don’t place any value on how it is written, spelled, or punctuated. Just my thoughts.

        • James;

          How about a little test. Remove all of the punctuation in Forrest’s poem. Just type all of the words in a continuous string. Give what you have typed to someone who has never read Forrest’s poem, and ask then to read (recite) what you have written. My guess is that it would be rather incoherent. In order for the poem to be recited properly, the punctuation is needed. Try it – JDA

          • Hi JDA, If the words are written out in there stanzas, the poem reads just fine without any punctuation. On the Old Santa Fe resource page, in the blogs on page 3 the blog titled ,Cowboy Cartoonist, at the bottom is a poem, that to me, reflex’s exactly, Mr. Fenn’s mind set, on poetry, and life.

          • I agree James,
            With no caps or punctuation, there is a pause after each line.
            When Forrest recites the poem, can you tell where the punctuations and caps are by the way he recites it???
            I highly doubt it.
            The words in each line is all you need IMO.

          • James;

            But you said :”So, I don’t place any value on how it is written, spelled, or punctuated.” If you don’t care how it is written – why leave it in stanza format?
            If no punctuation, no need for sentences or stanzas. Either you believe how it is written or punctuated is not needed – or you want to say that only certain punctuation needs to be followed. You can not have it both ways – JDA

  10. It would not change my whole solve, just the way I think about Brown.
    Some here have it linked into all the clues or some of the clues and would think it would have a major impact on their solves.
    Then again punctuation may not play a role at all and make no difference.

    • Hi Jake, I’m thinking it was capitalized only to give an impression, but not a fact. A place to use our imagination.

      • Yes I meant “capitalization” not punctuation although either may not matter.
        Yes, A place to use our imagination. I haven’t a clue what it is so I am forced to put a place to HOB which I’m not thrilled with but content at this time. I sort of skipped what HOB is. Who knows maybe where it is, is more important than what it is.

  11. Uncle Joe Brown had two houses around the north gate, one st the mouth of Yankee Jim Canyon and another above Gardiner at the north gate. I’m certain this is HOB, Fenn’s clues about what you would see from here the chest is only fits Gardiner.

    The chest is not in a national park but near the edge of Yellowstone. Jardine Rd. Is “put in below the home of Brown”, the road just past Eagle Creek campground is only open between May and Oct, and Sheep Mountain is where Joe Meek escaped the Blackfoot Indians “no place for the meek”. I was chased up a tree by a Grizzly here in early Jun near Little Creek Trail, which is below Sheep Mountain.

    There is no doubt this is the area but it is still a huge area to search. I hope someone finds it who is actually looking for it but it’s more likely that someone will stumble across the chest. Fenn himself overcooked his own poem…

  12. One more thing, look at Gardiner, MT from Google, on the ridge north east of town you will see four houses lined up, the house furthest to the east is Joe Brown’s home and there’s a trail going down to his old mining claim on Bear Creek, the other three houses belonged to his mining partners.

  13. Question #1 on this: Brown is one of the only colors not in the rainbow. Is it significant that we are looking for the end of Fenn’s rainbow, and we have to pass brown on the way?

  14. Question #2: Do most people looking at this riddle solve this as “home of Brown” or do you treat each word individually, or do you ‘chunk’ the line in some other way?

    Asking for a friend.

  15. Question #3: This is actually the thing I’ve thought the least about. What is a “home”?

    Forest, cave, meadow, lake, river, woods, mountain top, ocean. I mean, we’re limited to geographic features/locations in the 4 states. All I know is that it’s not: an alien, a hobbit, the garden of eden, a man made structure?

    What is it? What is it not?

        • Good [ point ] . A living (beating) heart is kinda maroon, and if
          dead (not too long ago), more like brown.

          Since “home is where the heart is”, if a person has recently died in the place they (presumably) love — their home, that person’s heart might be brown. Perhaps “home of brown” is a place “where FF’s heart is” or a place “where FF’s heart was”.

          On the other hand, perhaps a place whose name includes the
          word Heart, such as (guessing at possible place names) Heart
          Valley or Heart City or Heart Mountain, etc./similar . . . ?
          As always, IMO.

        • Wow: this thread has taken a bit of a morbid turn … but I suppose what better day? Even ties in with Edgar Allen Poe’s Telltale Heart. 😉

  16. “…home of Brown” Such an interesting set of three words.

    Hidden within the story of Cody,(Buffalo Cowboy) was this line, “Big buffalo bulls have no enemies so it was easy to slip up behind a tree and throw a loop, which landed on Cody’s head and wrapped around both horns.”

    “Big buffalo bulls…” caught my attention – three words starting with “B” or “b”.

    Why had this alliteration “Big buffalo bulls” caught my attention? Probably because Forrest had used an alliteration in the poem – where warm waters. Placing these three “b” words together created a mental link back to the poem .

    “Big buffalo = a Big “B” Buffalo – Buffalo with a capital “B” (I know this is weird thinking)

    “home of Brown.” Home and a word starting with a capital “B” = “home of Buffalo”

    “Oh, give me a home where the Buffalo roam…”

    Could this be the Capital “B” we are looking for? The “…home of Buffalo”? Just a thought – JDA

    • Ya JDA, I’ll buy that.
      I was tossing the idea around that maybe there was one lone buffalo that hung out around a specific area along the madison and Forrest and his dad gave him a name “Brown”. We do know they fished the Madison religiously.

      They named Cody in “Buffalo Cowboys” why not “Brown”?

      No matter where Brown hung out around Madison, the river is always below.
      My only problem is that secret will only be known by the one alive and why would you have a clue about animals that have long been dead although the place will always be there.

      • When I was at UXU in WY they had an issue with two buffalo that wouldn’t leave. They had to warn all the guest that the buffalo weren’t pets and to keep back. I can definitely see how buffalo can become attached to a location.

        • Ya Idle Dreamer, some buffs like a place or spot to call home and no one should tell them otherwise. Best to leave them alone and keep a fair distance.

          They were there first and we are just visiting. Good edicate.

    • And what is on the Wyoming state flag? So below the state (buffaloes home) you would put in. I have several ideas but wwwh is still eluding me, I’ve recently decided to focus there, gotta nail it down

  17. I have been away from the chase for a bit, but I saw the new post and started thinking…

    In the chapter Bessie and Me, F states “My father got a Guernsey calf that grew up to be a beautiful fawn-colored animal. We called her Bessie.” I was thinking about fawn-colored as brown. Could that be a hint as to what the home of brown is? I have always thought that Bessie was part of the solution because my key word leads me as identifying the blaze as Elizabeth (the formal name of Bessie). I am biased, but to me, F refers to royalty a lot! Guernsey cattle are from the British Channel Island Guernsey. I googled “tea Olga” and came up with a brand of tea called Grand Duchess Olga. The last 2 scrapbooks had hints of royalty – Ovaltine – a registered trademark of Associated British Foods. Rooster Cogburn was played by John Wayne aka The Duke. There are lots of other references to royalty. Maybe if Bessie or Elizabeth isn’t the blaze, maybe Bessie or fawn has something to do with the HOB. (Smile at a homely girl – Bessie the cow?) These ideas may have been discussed before, but I’m not aware of it, so I thought I would throw this out there for discussion.

  18. Well, I am glad to see that Dal has finally seen the light and opened up discussion on hoB, the most important clue in the poem. There are hundreds of WWWH and canyons to take down in the Rockies, but only one leads to the home of Brown. I have just read all of your comments top to bottom, and with only one exception all believe the treasure is in or near Yellowstone. I do as well, but have a Colorado solve that meets every clue in the poem. Can’t wait for next summer. I will check it out on the way to Yellowstone.
    I think you work backwards from hoB, Whether it be a cave, a lake, a river, an actual home of a person, or a brown spot on a map, the map holds the clues. Once you have narrowed the search to hoB, boots on the ground take over the chase. The Patriot is right, FF definitely over cooked the poem.

    • Jack-
      I’ve actually “seen the light” since July of 2014. That’s when this topic started on the blog. Perhaps you are not familiar with the “Searchers Discussion” index…on it you will find current topic pages and the archives of previous topic discussions…
      It can be found here:
      https://dalneitzel.com/searcher-discussions/
      and also in the right hand column under “Searcher’s Discussions”

  19. Dal. I am a newbee, just got hooked last winter and took my first chase this summer in Yellowstone and Colorado. Thanks for the links, hoB will lead someone to the cache.
    I noticed on WWWH you like the Firehole River, so do I. Gardiner looks good but I think so many people have been there that it would have been found by now. But after actually being on the ground where I thought it was, the search area is much bigger than you think, so it could be missed. I feel that way about one of my solves on the Firehole. Going back next summer.

    • Jeeze Francis-
      Have you even bothered to look at the material on this blog…?
      There is an entire section for write ups of solutions called “Other’s Adventures”.
      In it you will find stories folks have written about searching in areas all over the RMs north of Santa Fe…
      Several of those stories are about searching in the Brown’s Canyon Area.
      And if you are systematically challenged with menus then you could simply use the search mechanism at the bottom of the right hand column and type in “browns canyon”.
      If all of that is somehow against your grain than you could click on one of these:
      https://dalneitzel.com/2015/12/09/browns-canyon/
      https://dalneitzel.com/2017/07/27/browns-canyon-solution/

      and there are more from that area…but I’m hoping you take the time to look them up…and read them…

    • Funny!! I think Brown’s Canyon CO (and surrounding area) is the initial solve for perhaps 80% of all searchers. It’s more like, who hasn’t tried looking there? Good memories though. I didn’t even have the poem memorized yet and was walking around reading the poem from a piece of paper trying to match up clues on one of my first searches along the Ark – and stumbled upon a family from Iowa doing the same thing. And now I walk thru the woods singing the poem as a grizzly deterrent. So far, it has worked. The grizzly deterrent, I mean.

  20. After a couple months of study, I have located a home of Brown, it contains at least 3 different families of Brown, all that ff would be familiar with. It falls in line with all the proceeding clues. Is, look quickly down, like looking down into a geyser, cause you never know when it might erupt ? but that does not fit my solve. So it will be boots on the ground next summer to see if I can tie up some loose ends.

  21. If you knew where the home of Brown was you would go right to the chest per Mr.Fenn. Time to use deductive reasoning/logic considering we have all winter to hash this out. Spreadsheet anyone?

  22. Could a campsite qualify as home of Brown? Due to the inherent quality of a campsite being temporarily occupied, I struggle with the idea of considering a campsite to be a “home” (Unless you strongly believe in the notion of “Home is where you hang your hat”?).

  23. I think the clue “put in below the hob” is the home of Brown trout which is the Madison river et al and nothing more. Call me simple but he is a fellow fisherman so I can relate to his poem in this way. I think all the clues are specifically “nfbttw” in proximity to this location as well.

    • Introduction to browns in the upper Firehole River (Wikipedia):

      Introductions of brown trout into the American West created new angling opportunities, none so successful from an angling perspective as was the introduction of browns into the upper Firehole River in Yellowstone National Park in 1890.[32] One of the earliest accounts of trout fishing in the park is from Mary Trowbridge Townsend’s 1897 article in Outing Magazine “A Woman’s Trout Fishing in Yellowstone Park” in which she talks about catching the von Behr trout in the river:

      Long dashes down stream taxed my unsteady footing; the sharp click and whirr of the reel resounded in desperate efforts to hold him somewhat in check; another headlong dash, then a vicious bulldog shake of the head as he sawed back and forth across the rocks. Every wile inherited from generations of wily ancestors was tried until, in a moment of exhaustion, the net was slipped under him. Wading ashore with my prize, I had barely time to notice his size—a good four-pounder, and unusual markings, large yellow spots encircled by black, with great brilliancy of iridescent color—when back he flopped into the water and was gone. However, I took afterward several of the same variety, known in the Park as the Von Baer [sic] trout, and which I have since found to be the Salmo fario, the veritable trout of Izaak Walton.

      — Outing Magazine, (1897)[33]

  24. All I see is grasping at straws, its time to pay attention when reading the book and the poem and not speculating. Speculating = big guessing!

    • All I see is grasping at straws. So many far fetched revelations. But you know why right ! Overthinking a complex poem.

    • I believe many have searched the area where tc is located. Many believe it’s been searched already it’s not there. Not true.

  25. Barbara Shelley once taught me that “Hob” is a nickname for the Devil (that was a freaky movie). The “Pirates of the Caribbean” franchise more recently used it to reference Davy Jones (the Pirate not the Monkee).

  26. I love the idea of the post it note for solves, kudos to whoever brought that up.
    I think all the clues are fairly close to each other as they confirm or reference each other.

  27. I suggest every searcher to watch the movie “National Treasure (2004)” starring Nicolas Cage and Sean Bean, and to pay attention to the first riddle where “Silence” appears. I think Fenn was inspired by this and used the same idea in his poem, IMO.
    – MajinKing

      • Hi Idle Dreamer,

        I’m not sure how King of California helped you in solving and finding out HOB for your chase, but in case you haven’t watched the movie, here is the riddle and what Cage said in the movie to solve that riddle.

        Riddle: The legend writ, the stain affected, the key in Silence undetected.
        Fifty-five in iron pen, Mr. Matlack can’t offend.

        Cage said: But wait, Silence is capitalized, so it is a name. The most famous person that has Silence in their name is Silence Dogood aka Benjamin Franklin. When he was 16, he secretly wrote 14 letters to his brother’s newspaper pretending to be a middle-aged widow called Silence Dogood. That means, the map has to do something about the Dogood letters.

        By the same token, I think Brown in our search for the chest has to do with somebody named Brown if we want to identify the home of Brown correctly. In addition, if Fenn wanted to point to the actual structure he might have used the word “house” instead of using “home”, IMO.

        — MajinKing

        • That is a good theory MK. Only so many more people named Brown to choose from than people named Silence. Any thoughts on how to pick the right one?

          • Hi Aaron,
            I think, of course, there is only one correct Brown to choose for the correct solve, every searcher has to pick their own Brown who is related to the general search area depending upon the particular WWWH he/she has chosen to use for the solve. Don’t you think?
            — MajinKing

          • MK, for a HoB riddle to work the same as you suggested from National Treasure then we wouldn’t necessarily be looking for anything named Brown near WWWH.

            You said: “Cage said: But wait, Silence is capitalized, so it is a name. The most famous person that has Silence in their name is Silence Dogood aka Benjamin Franklin. When he was 16, he secretly wrote 14 letters to his brother’s newspaper pretending to be a middle-aged widow called Silence Dogood. That means, the map has to do something about the Dogood letters”

            So if you applied the same theory to Brown then it seems like you would be looking for someone that used Brown as an alias or pen name.

  28. Let us return to the days of yesteryear. Some ideas are being re-thought due to the revelation that some have trod 200-500 ft from the TC.

    One early thought on this home front was the possibility that the Christ In The Desert Monastery is a home that is
    Brown. There is a wonderful “blaze” emitted from it at night due to its
    architecture. There are some wonderful night shots of this blaze on google
    images.

    It being not far from The Ghost Ranch (
    no place for the meek) just across The Chama and “in the canyon down” from the Rio Ojo Caliente (WWWH).

    As a footnote ff said you may wish to celebrate with a six pack. Those Monks brew some mighty fine brew.

    Put in below the home of Brown….the Rio Chama….some of the best trout waters in North America!

    Until that TC is found….all options are still on my table and I am back paddling to some early “solves” just encase they were in close proximity.

    HI-HO HI-HO…next Spring it is off to search I go!

  29. Mr. Fenn said that he felt like an architect drawing the poem. I wonder if he was inspired by the local architecture, when writing/drawing the poem?

    • James P –

      I think he is referring to a specific architect. In stead of asking “How so?” We should be asking “Oh, which one?”

      IMO
      Lug

        • I believe if ff was referring to an architect it is George Nakashima. He designed the Monastery Christ in the desert. George Nakashima was an American woodworker, architect, and furniture maker Made from wood.

          I also believe hob is the Rio Chama upstream from the Monastery where the wwh is and the Brown trout flourish.

          All that gets you in the general area. Now narrow it down to the blaze.

          • The Patriot –

            I like your thinking, and what follows is My opinion only.

            There is a cycle or pattern to the Chase. You are in what I would identify as an early stage. Many start in New Mexico. Over time they begin to explore the borders and look into southern Colorado or make the leap to Yellowstone. From Yellowstone they begin to move out into Montana. After Montana comes the next step in the cycle. Some get stuck anywhere along the wheel. In the past 19 months a good number of folks are stuck in Montana. I might even say the wheel is stuck. The wheel is stuck. They cannot move to the next stage because they are fixated. Coming here will reinforce that target fixation. I like to think I’m at the next stage and I don’t know if there will be another.

            On a wheel this places me both in front of AND behind the same searchers. Until the wheel stops and we find out who is standing where.

            Lugnutz

          • Lugnutz. I hear ya. I see people all over the place far and wide but I really believe it’s not that far but too far too walk. It’s in NM.

  30. Hi All. My HOB is Browning Montana.
    Put in below the home of brown.
    Put in means to put in on the end of Brown to give Brownin.
    Below the home is a basement.
    To get to the basement you take an elevator.
    Which button do you push in the elevator to get from ground floor to the basement?
    The “B” button in the USA.
    But in Russia they push the “G” button, thanks Wikipedia.
    Giving you Browning.
    Sounding far fetched?
    Join “put in” together.
    Putin, the Russian president.

        • The only type of structure that may be associated to some of the clues are roads. If those are considered structures. He did say he followed the clues and parked his sedan.

          • Jake,

            I don’t believe roads or paths are structures, you need to use those to get you to where one is going. I believe F parked his sedan near the blaze and not before. Actually no one really knows when he parked the sedan, but it will be obvious where for the one that finds the tc.

          • frank,

            Please don’t instruct me and tell me I’m lost. Some folks here have been trying to point you to that the clues are not assoc. to structures.

            You have your own theory as well as I have mine.

            Please don’t say your right, simply because you don’t have the tc. How about respect here, please!!

        • Charlie for your information – no paddle is a structure its not where the tc is but its a clue a very important one at that. but I have nothing to worry about -cause what I can see from here – you are still lost

          • frank;

            How can a paddle be a structure. It is a “Thing” – not a structure. Look up the definition of “structure”.

            Also – what you offered is an “OPINION” not a FACT! J MY O JDA

          • JDA your opinion says its not a structure and my opinion says it is and as far as using imo I don’t see any one using it – maybe what every one says are facts – I think dal needs to remind every one about this rule or maybe I should say his rule .

          • frank;

            Almost all posters use “imo”. Dal does not have to remind us of “his” rulews, they are posted at the top of every thread under “RULES” – Here is the one you SHOULD be using ;
            \
            “RULE #6: Don’t confuse readers. There is a difference between fact and opinion. No one knows where the chest is located until they have it in their hands. So, until the chest is in your hands, you cannot say that you know where the chest is located or that you have solved the poem…Saying these things will lead casual readers to believe the hunt is over and someone has found the chest… which is not the case. You cannot claim you have found it or know where it is or have solved the poem unless the chest is in your possession…until then it’s only your opinion. Making unsubstantiated claims will result in banishment from our community.

            I am not trying to play traffic cop. It just helps the newer posters to understand what is FACT, and what is OPINION – JMO – JDA

          • Charlie 3 times I have been nice to you even though all I have gotten are smart remarks from you – you want respect you got- it but lets get the same from you

    • @ John R – Thank you for sharing your thought processes about how you arrived at your HOB and I do wish you the best of luck in your search endeavors.

      I have read most of the followup blogs to your initial post and find myself questioning those processes of yours.

      For starters, how do you associate the command to “Put in” as meaning to put the word IN at the end of the word Brown? The full command seemingly is to “Put in BELOW” not “Put in AT THE END”.

      After that, you talk about elevators and I must ask how many homeowners do you know that have elevators going down to their basements? I think it is safe to say most people have a flight of stairs without the need for labeling how to use them to go up or down.

      Then you change from the American standard to the Russian standard with no apparent command from the poem to do so, or any reasoning behind why.

      Then you combine the words Put and In to get Putin, again with no command to do so from the poem or any reasoning why.

      And when you back up a couple of lines from your Putin comment, you even ask we the readers if your thought processes are “Sounding far fetched?” and when we try to give you counter examples, etc. you take offense.

      IMO (With a wink to my old friend JDA), the whole process you presented does sound far fetched and is contrary to other established search criteria by none other than FF himself. If you want to continue thinking contrary to FF’s own comments, as I said before, best of luck to you.

      • My apologies, John R. I still question your thought processes, but it was Frank who got upset when others tried to refute some of his assertions with information confirmed by FF.

      • Bowmarc. Thanks for the reply. I agree that the process is a bit disjointed, and that I am probably wrong on Browning. I am looking at that line as a cryptic clue which does not need to make perfect sense, and cryptic clues often use this process. Forrest has mentioned elevators before and has made mention of Russia too. Reverse engineering could refer to an elevator going down as opposed to up. Also Browning is shown on the map in TFTW, could this be the unintended clue?
        Finally on page 130 of TFTW he talks about the tacks he was given that were 9mm in diameter? Isnt that an abberation? I am from New Zealand and we use the metric system, but the USA uses Imperial, metrics is foreign to most Americans. Why did he not say three eighths? Perhaps the clue is Browning 9mm High Power semi auto handgun.
        My WWWH is Whale Lake Montana. It is an anagram of Waters Halt. Start Whale.

  31. JDA I have been here for 5 years I know the rules I looked at all the comments above and out of all of them all I found were 3 imo really JDA really

  32. I try to remember to start off my solves with “I believe”.

    At the end of the day tho we all have opinions and there is no need to bash someone else’s. If they mistakenly don’t say I believe or IMO I don’t think we’re all gonna think they found it because if somebody finds it it will be a more profound statement. You may interpret structure differently than others. I basically got attacked on my first post here. Geez y’all.

  33. Patriot lol just hang in there – don’t tell anyone that they are wrong- and don’t let anyone tell you that you are- good luck on the chase

  34. I am aware that this is
    “backdoorish”, so I’ll keep it short
    as my connectivity to HOD seems erratic.
    BUSTER BROWN AND HIS DOG
    TIGE LIVE IN A SHOE.

  35. Hi Aaron,
    Since you haven’t left a reply button, I’m replying in this way.
    What I pointed out was that Fenn might have used the same idea of capitalizing his key name Brown, not Benjamin Franklin using an alias name Silence. That’s all. I still think that Brown and the home of Brown is the key word of the poem. Fenn mentioned that if you have the hoB nailed down, you could go directly to the chest (paraphrased).
    — MajinKing

    • I used to think that Brown was potentially the keyword. I don’t think that anymore, but think it’s very important. I also think it’s possible that HoB is the area the treasure is in.

      • Hi Arron,

        As Fenn pointed out many times I think the TC is hidden about 500′ from the HoB. So the most important thing is to find where the HoB is. As soon as you nail that, the “meek” creek, the end, the blaze, and the TC will be obvious. So that the searcher can go to that place CONFIDENTLY as Fenn also mentioned.

        — MajinKing

    • MajinKing,

      I’d think if one found the place of hoB would make it easier to finish out the remaining clues, but there is a lot of work to do after hoB. One question is, how far is “below the home of Brown? Is it feet, yards or miles below the hoB?

      • Hi CharlieM,

        I think you mean the distance from the HoB to the put in point, right? I would guess it’s somewhere between 50 and 100 yards or so. But please don’t ask me how I got that.

        — MajinKing

      • CharlieM, a leopard cannot change its spots and it’s my belief that no mortal human can crack this nut. Too complicated and complex. It will require the assistance of a specially written computer program to reveal the solve. I’m surprised such has not already been done. I would think that such a challenge would be candy for such an individual with the requisite talents. No doubt, when she does so, it will be a thing of beauty, at least in the eyes of her fellow techies. LT

        • Lori;

          A computer program can NOT think. A computer program can only make decisions based on a given set of information that is provided by the programmer. Yes, today Artificial Intelligence can come to play, but AI relies on accumulated data.

          Forrest has said that Imagination id more important than knowledge. A computer has knowledge (data) – It has NO imagination. An old computer slogan – Garbage in – garbage out. If a programmer supplies the program with the false information that he has been using – guess what the result will be. JMO – JDA

          • JDA. You have explained the logic of computer intelligence perfectly and simply. IMO. There is no wisdom nor imagination in computers. Just the current knowledge , or lack thereof, from humans; be it truth or untruth knowledge inputs and best guesses. IMO. The only person whom could write a computer based program to solve this poem would be FF. IMO.

        • Hi Lori — many have attempted to use computer-based tools to shrink the search area, but outright solving a cryptic poem is well beyond a computer’s capabilities. There are puzzles that a 4-year-old can solve that are beyond today’s computers’ abilities.

          I’ll leave you to consider Forrest’s quote from the EIS Radio interview (8/8/2013): “I still have about, uh, something like 4,000 arrowheads. And I tell people I’m saving those, because after the next war, I’ll make a fortune selling my arrowheads to different armies around the world. Einstein had said, ‘I don’t know what we’ll fight World War III with, but World War IV is going to be fought with sticks.’ And the technology is changing so fast. I mean, if your computer is two years old, it’s archaic today. Technology is not going to help you find that treasure. But your mind and your body and your attitude changes as things change.'”

          • JD n Zap, thanks much for your responses. As two of the more respected voices on this forum, IMO, I humbly defer to your opinions. The current, and unfortunately permanent, state of my intelligence does not permit even the most elementary understanding of such things as computer programming and code writing. It’s all Greek to me. Again, thanks for your input. I stand corrected. LT

          • Hi Lori — the main (positive) message I meant to get across to you is that you have just as much chance as anyone else — to include computer programmers. You are not at a disadvantage. Good luck!

          • For a program to be effective in solving the poem it would need to be written with some knowledge of the sort of problem to be solved. I’m fairly certain that human intuition and creativity is a far better tool than a computer’s mindless data crunching for figuring out what sort of a problem Mr Fenn has posed to us.

            Would a computer have made the choice to sneak out the window to escape class or watch the gypsys? Would it make the decision to head out into the woods with a horse, a fishing rod, a map and three Snickers bars? Mr Fenn doesn’t make the same sort of choices that a computer would make, so I wouldn’t trust one to figure out his thinking behind the poem.

        • Obvious to who? How does knowing hob tell what or where the creek is? Do you believe that the poem is talking about a REAL creek?

          • tighterfocus,

            When one correctly identifies the hoB and one correctly identifies no place for the meek, I strongly believe there will be a real creek as in no paddle creek. The creek will have water but too shallow for any type of watercraft, IMO

            Just Say’n

  36. I think the distance is key and in my opinion it is less than a mile but more than a few feet. The distance up your creek however I think is at least a mile possibly two from FF parking place.
    I don’t discount brown trout when I work on my solves but believe that HOB is a person. The Buster Brown theory is outside the box and I believe that you must think inside the box, but it is certainly intriguing, I will look into it.

  37. When I checked the Reddit website sometime last week, searchers were discussing about the Yellowstone National Park and Grafton Tyler Brown who drew many paintings of the prominent features in it.

    — MajinKing

  38. An HOB inside Yellowstone National Park?

    William H. Clagett was a lawyer and politician from Nevada and later Montana Territory who is credited with writing and introducing the bill in Congress that established Yellowstone National Park.

    In a short letter to the Secretary of the Minnesota Historical Society in 1894 he describes the history of the establishment of the region as a park. A narrow portion of that letter is quoted below:

    “…soon after the return of the Washburn-Langford party, 
two printers at Deer Lodge City, Montana, went into the Firehole basin and cut a large number of poles, intending
 to come back the next summer and fence in the tract of 
land containing the principal geysers, and hold possession for speculative purposes, as the Hutchins family so 
long held the Yosemite valley. One of these men was named Harry Norton. He subsequently wrote a book on 
the park.
    The other one was named Brown. He now
 lives in Spokane, Wash., and both of them in the summer
 of 1871 worked in the New Northwest office at Deer Lodge. When I learned from them in the late fall of 1870 or 
spring of 1871 what they intended to do, I remonstrated with them and stated that from the description given by them and by members of Mr. Langford’s party, the whole region should be made into a National Park and no private proprietorship be allowed.”

    This is one rationale that I have heard several searchers use for naming the geyser basin around the Firehole River as their Home of Brown.

    Questions arise-
    1. How do the clues in the poem get you to this region?
    2. Although it fits the bill as far as NPFTM is concerned, where do you go from here to complete the path?
    3. Is awareness of this letter specialized knowledge in the area of historical documents?

    Finally, this is a large area…although we have no idea what the HoB actually is, is the geyser basin to large to be considered a HoB?

    • Too “specialized” for me. If one (perhaps FF?) imagines a child being able to
      solve the poem, then one should think about what that child would know. I don’t
      imagine many children of any age would know about the info that you posted
      above. As always, IMO.

      • Tighter-
        I have had no more luck than anyone else on the source of Forrest’s comment about “ask a child”. I do remember that comment and the impact it had. It may have originated on Stephanie’s first web endeavor, her blog…prior to chasechat. Since her blog isn’t around any more, that could explain why no one can find the quote. But more importantly, I believe Forrest’s comment was in reference to a single clue…not to all the clues. I believe that Forrest was answering a question about WWWH….and his reply was “ask a child where warm waters halt”…or something quite similar. The reason I remember it that way is because it triggered a lot of folks to start looking for something related to a bathtub…Bathtub Springs, Tub Creek, Indian Bath Springs, Laundry Springs…etc…
        As I remember, Stephanie was looking in CO at the time and she found an actual abandoned bathtub on one of her searches and thought certain she had discovered the place to begin.

        • Think that is right Dal, that’s how I remember it. I think it got confused to the hiding spot is safe, that a family could go comments. All of a sudden, a child could go and solve the clues to find the spot, instead of , wwh had to do with a bathtub. It’s the typical telephone game. Chinese whispers.

    • Dal,
      #3. I don’t think anything that could relate to stories in the book would be considered “specialized knowledge”.. for me the meaning is; advance or expertise on a subject… Rocket Scientist come to mind for an example. As well as; Latin, Bible verses, Head Pressure etc etc.
      But, on the same subject, IF we as individuals need to study up on something we just don’t know about { geysers for example } are we breaking any rules just because we never seen one? IF there is any calculations involved { such as triangulation } is it wrong to refresh this subject of math? If I my reading of maps /GE was very poor, would it be wrong to seek expert advise?

      OK back to your topic; IF hoB is that large {The Shoshone Geyser Basin is 80 acres alone}… then the sky is the limit to how large a search location could be… I ‘personally’ don’t see that from fenn’s comments that folks got the first two clues and walked by everything else; my one example;
      ~“There are several people that have deciphered the first two clues. I don’t think they knew it, because they walked right on past the treasure chest.”– (Moby Dickens Book Shop Signing / November 2, 2013)

      How can anyone get to hoB and beyond ‘without another clue’ to get folks within 500′ ~ walking clues {the clue’s location} and possibly do this in two trips in one afternoon?

      More rambling and rumblings…

    • Dal with most respect, I doubt most children could do that advance developed research. ff said the poem, a good map and google, were the basic tools to get one there, when he referred to google, made me think as a dictionary for more exact info about the words he uses. I think many things ff has written or said since the first book is just creative clutter, not lies just not directly related. We know he wanted people to get off the couch and outdoors. But I think as an after thought, when he saw how the chase grew, he also could get people to read more about real history. Which is a lofty reward with in itself.

      • Greg ~ ‘doubt most children could do that advance developed research.’

        Will someone show me where fenn has implied children can solve this?
        Kids have an advantage… see that. And the reason why…
        Show the poem to our kids… seen that. { the whole point was to get the little ones interested… right?
        And sure we can argue an age group… but could most 9 year old truly solve this challenge? How about young teens? 13 15?
        There is a lot of emphasis on the idea kids, children can solve this… But I don’t recall fenn saying as much. Maybe I didn’t get the memo, or e-mail or text, or a tweet or voice mesage…

        • I think ff is referring to the fact that a childs imagination is not yet all bogged down by facts and boundaries, that most adults have. FF has a very active imagination, that has taken him to many places in his own mind. Lets just call it his Yellow brick road, and we all are Dorothy. Looking for Emerald City, but we need the help of a Scarecrow, Tinman, a Lion and the Good Witch of the North, to get it.

  39. Jake, please enlighten me, as I do not believe ff is giving out anymore clues to the chase, he has repeatedly said so. Hints are even more vague then clues. Hints that you have to tie to a particular clue. If you cant decipher the correct clue, then the hint is not of much use, It just seems so many are getting away from what ff said about the poem and the solve. Maybe you all like distracting everyone on wild geese chase, afraid some else might solve it. Brown is one of the most common names in the world, right behind Smith and Jones, if it has anything to do with last names at all. Why not Professor Emmit Brown, then we would find ourselves, Back to the Future.

    • greg, you need to enlighten yourself.
      Is the Cheat Sheet creative clutter?
      https://dalneitzel.com/cheat-sheet/
      How about all the safety comments by F?
      What about the Scrapbooks, vignettes and other interviews?

      If you’re a poem purist, just let me know and I will run the other way without looking back.

      • Jake, the cheat sheet really help most some of the hints to one place, and should not be ignored. I did take time to read thru 179 of the Scrape books comments and made some notes for further reference. The safety comments pretty much expanded on what the 1st stanza says about what kind of area he went alone. I have not got to the vignettes yet, but lots of winter left. Most of the videos I have viewed and 3 several times. I have read some of the articles done by written media, but I am sure not all of them. I spend 10 hours a day reading and verifying or discrediting certain items. In the last six weeks I have spent more time with TTOTC the chasing my wife. Her being a Colombian Beauty, I finally had to translate the poem and ff basic story for her. She asked me what kind of crazy man would do such a thing? I told her ff asked himself the same question after he hid it. She is very excited about coming to the States next Summer, as she has never been outside of Colombia. She will get to meet my family and go on a real live treasure hunt. Along the way she will get to see the grandness of our great country. Even without finding it, it will be like a fairytale come true for her to see America. Will be returning to Colombia afterwards, because we are taking care of here aging parents, and her family is very important to her.

        • Best to enlighten yourself with your family first.
          Please bring me some coffee beans when you guys brew up a general viable solve without creative clutter.

    • Greg;

      Just curious – you say, ” I do not believe ff is giving out anymore clues to the chase, he has repeatedly said so.” Can you please give me your sources for this statement? I have not read these repeated statements.

      Although Forrest occasionally mixes up the terms “clues” and”hints” – there are only nine clues – and they are in the poem, so of course Forrest would not be giving out any “clues”. A hint here and there – probably – If you know what to look for.

      True, hints are more vague, and would need to be tied to a particular clue – but why would this stop Forrest from dropping a hint or two now and again?

      Hope you can provide the sources – Thanks in advance – JDA

  40. Found this today during a search. They are mainly speaking of brown trout. Very intriguing

    5 tips for fishing The lower Madison at high water

    For high water fishing, we are talking about the section below Warm Springs

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