Home of Brown…Part Six

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This is for a discussion about “the home of Brown” in Forrest’s poem.

Got an HOB that didn’t work out…or maybe you need an HOB for a certain area…or perhaps you have an idea that needs some fleshing out..

This is the place to discuss all things HOB…

dal…

625 thoughts on “Home of Brown…Part Six

    • You should capitalize Brown, as the poem does. In answer to your question’s
      apparent intent, I suppose there’s a possibility . . . If you treat every clue as having many “layers”, then you might want to excuse “improper” (hee hee) use of capitalization — or lack thereof. I choose to be strict and proper about the traditional use of capitalization; it works for me.

      Is that a pith helmet? If so, is it warm?

      As always, IMO.

      • I would honestly have to say your overthinking it as a mixture of a few colors of any variety will give u a rich brown color, as if u mix ever color together itll give you a rich brown color, not black as most ppl seem to think, of with the exclusion of white and black, which doesnt belong to the RBG color pallete.

      • I believe its in forward thinking live long and live well as whatever
        Brown did survival of the fittest have fun be safe. have a good day Sir Forest Fenn. and Friends.

    • Forrest said that the clues refer to places. Since Brown is a clue, it’s probably a place, not a color or trout or bears…just my opinion

      • If I am following the author of this thread correctly, and as poisonivey just pointed out, Purple Mt. in Yellowstone could be considered as possible HOB because yellow and purple combine (mix) to make brown. Other colors that mix to brown are blue and orange as well as red and green. If we search for areas that reference the correct combination of these colors, could such be considered a HOB?

        • Bowmarc, it seems like that there are almost TOO many color combinations out there that can result in the color brown. Also add to your list: red & blue; red, yellow, & black; magenta, yellow, & black.

        • If we skip the idea of ‘mixing’… warm can represent a warm color, a comfortable color, Warm and Comfortable as an emotional attachment or fond feeling for and relate to waters of YS NP, but more specifically, YS river and/or lake.. hoB would not directly be related to a ‘color’.. but more hinting of a color in a clue.

          What’s Black and White and ‘red’ Read all over, line of thinking. Hinting to a ‘color’ and no so much a ‘brown’ color, for Where Warm Waters are, and being a separate place within the same area of said waters.. or even the area itself.

          So what do ya have? Start at YS lake – waters that halt ‘temporarily’ take it in the canyon down [ in this case North ] following the flow. NF, just follow the flow.. Unless ya’ll can walk on water that is.
          HoB? The mud pots? NPFTM the Grand daddy of the canyon down [described in the Washburn-Langford-Doane Expedition] , The end is ever drawing… End of the river? When it leaves the park? The end of the canyon? The end of the falls? _ the lower falls_ “Just HLnWH” – both falls?

          Would that fit on a posted note?

          Mixing colors make me dizzy…

          • Hello Seeker. In regards to the posted note holding the nine clues, I wonder if we should consider if it really can, and the hint is the color of it. Not sure if this is the case, but trying to look at everything possible.

          • I’m not one who think fenn hands out hints all the time, but for fun lets roll with it. Colors are mentioned in the book a lot. Red, Green, Black? a couple types of blues etc. The only real connection to the posted note idea would be YS.. the interesting part about that is; the chapter ‘In Love with Yellowstone’ which hardly talks about YS and more about the trip to, the family car, a place they would go off route to visit… so is the connection more about another place than YS? Does 1600 miles have a hint involve to the route taken, and for a reason? { I checked that once, the shortest route in the 1930’s and 40’s bypassed NM altogether. LOL bet the NM searcher don’t like that idea }

            I went with the 30’s and 40’s maps because the interstate highway system didn’t start until the mid 50’s. Traveling at 30 miles an hour… basically any road would work.. and non-stop over 55 hours to complete, with gas and restrooms.

            Where was I… on right! I can see hints, if I want to see hint, in a lot of fenn’s .. what is the correct though for a seeing a hint?

          • It seems so strange that a little girl IN India – with good English language skills and only the poem and a map of the Rocky Mountains – is unable to get any closer than the first two clues. I find it strange because, according to Forrest, she CAN solve the first two clues with such limited resources.

            Odd, isn’t it? Just thinkin’ out loud …
            Joe

          • Hi Seeker;

            I think I get what you are sayin’. 1600 miles in the 30’s and 40’s – averaging 30 MPH would have made for a very long trip – between 53 to 55 hours on the road – PHEW. Thanks for posting – Something new to ponder – JDA

          • Joe,

            I have many thoughts about Little Indy’s Q&A.
            I don’t adhere to the idea her map sucks, line of thinking, or she doesn’t have a drivers license, like some have stated…

            My simple answer, but not truly having an answer is; there is nothing involving; “planning” and “observation”… I can say the same about the Q&A; Nope, Nope.
            There seems to be a need to be on site [ other than the simple thought of picking up the chest ] and it seems the lack of “Imagination, planning, observing” that fenn tells us to do, starts at the first two clues.

            LOL but don’t ask me what that is… IDK. And maybe no one else who deciphered the first couple of clues knew either.
            IF I had to guess? It might be the idea of “take it in” and “left the poem”… most consider a movement, rather than, ‘take it in’ as a view or observation, and little or no imagination used. Not on a map, but on site… or the need to be there, in practice.

            Or maybe she didn’t have the right exchange rate in rupee’s for the amount of gas she needed to drive out clues… lol hey, I’m open to other reasons… well, to a point.

          • Seeker (response to 4:06 pm comment),
            Based on the way Jenny framed the LGII question, it’s my impression for a variety of reasons that any BOTG or U.S. visit was out of the question. With that (logical?) presumption, she would seem to be very limited with regard to perspective – what is she able to see from India through the eyes on either side of her nose?

            Though her mind is not a blank slate, we shouldn’t presume she has any level of knowledge of the U.S., but it’s likely she has a bit more information about The Chase than the “Nope, Nope” Q&A; after all, she does have the poem and the map in her possession.
            ( mysteriouswritings.com/featured-question-with-forrest-fenn-500-years-from-now/ )

            IMO, the Rockies map would need to be somewhat detailed for her to solve the first two clues, but with the right map, a sharp eye, a touch of creativity, and let’s presume good assimilation ‘reflexes’ and an ability to connect dots, it seems plausible to me she can solve them.

            Just opinions.
            Joe

          • Joe,
            We have fenn saying we don’t need to read the book, but it will help with the clues… we have Nope with nothing but the poem… Little Indy with the poem and a map… We also have WWH and In the mountains N.of SF. and could some one get there by those two clues? [oversimplifying the clues Q&A] and other Q&As and such…
            What they all seem to have in common is, not being on site.
            But we also have the first to clues deciphered, and searchers on site, yet those folks didn’t seem to know it, Yet the got there somehow. Folks going by the remaining clues, and people figured out the first couple clues and walked past the chest… or basically; They left the poem.
            How did the leave the poem and from what point?

            Fenn said that clues 3 & 4 seem to be stumping the searchers.. lol yet some get within 200′ and others within 500′. Something is missing. However, we have a more recent comment that some have four correct clues deciphered… but those/that searcher may not know they do. { I added the last one, because we don’t know it they were on site or just explaining their theory }

            Why, apparently, haven’t searcher understood the poem past the first two clues? IMO, the most logical answer is… one need to be on site at the first two clues { maybe even have them combined properly and not their references only- a certain spot to be at}. And the other reason being; we must use our imagination to proceed with what we see in front of us. In my thoughts, that is the difference between reading the poem as stomping point to point vs. observing the clues from a single vantage point… no movement need to go to the clues, just imagine how they all unfold before you…

            You can not get closer than the first two clues, because the other clues are visual from WWH and the canyon.

            In this case both wwh and canyon are need to work together in a single spot somewhere at the first two clues… also in theory… clues three and four work together in understanding where to stand at. Stanza three is everything you see, from ‘below’ hoB [in this case the canyon itself, possibly – NPFTM]… leaving HLnWH very near to where you are… at the first two clues. So, the conclusion might be; nobody can get closer than the first two clue, because IF you leave, you walk by everything and leave the poem, no matter which direction you leave to go to where.

            That’s what I call a small scale solve. “Your destination is small, but the location is huge.” Where you start is your small ‘destination’ in a huge location with all the clues visual from the starting point… I think fenn is telling us what e sees standing at the chest, and the blaze. And the reason to nail down WWWH or we don’t have notta. How do you know the blaze?… when you can see all the clues from a single point… Just HLnWH

            If you’ve been wise and found [ discover – have knowledge of WWH = HLnWH] you have discovered the blaze intended to be found. IMO the direct path to “Follow”- listening to the instruction, will “lead” [ show you ] The blaze, in the wood. And I’ll give my opinion; it will be on somewhere on the CD. Because I think NPFTM also references the CD as the backbone of the RM’s Hence “brave’ and in the wood.
            Hopefully no where near 10,200 feet either.

            “There no substitute for thinking and analyzing and planning and observation, Unless your desire is to keep it simple.” Thanks Craig.

            Fenn left his car, walked the most direct route to the hide, he followed [viewing them] the clues to the hide. hid the contents…Rinse and Repeat.. hid the chest with the contents within, and walked less than a few mile [two trip] back to his… from the first two clues nailed down spot. He married the clues to “A” place on a map… ‘joined’ – contiguously them together.

            Pardon me now… I have to make an over sea call to Little Indy, so she an tell me where WWWH is at. or have her mail it to me on a posted note.

          • Seeker,
            I can only express what I feel works best for me, so take everything with copious amounts of salt because I’m just another failing searcher.

            I feel many searchers compound the difficulty of The Chase by focusing on many of Forrest’s post-TTOTC comments. IMO, this is detrimental and counter-productive when attempting to solve the poem as his comments are typically just as highly interpretive as the key phrases in the poem. IMO, the focus should be on the poem, the poem, and the poem – in that order.

            Regarding 200/500 feet, I’ve always believed the entire poem should be solved prior to BOTG. As such, I believe searchers may correctly resolve the early part of the poem, leave it at some point, but through their wanderings and with their focus on the endpoint or special spot they’ve derived from the poem, still manage to get within 200/500 feet. It’s also possible, IMO, F’s 200’/500′ comments were metaphoric in nature, or there’s simply another meaning intended. Regardless, if a searcher feels they have a reasonably solid poem solution, would they physically linger at or near its beginning, or even go there, while BOTG? Spoiler alert: IMO, there are many (crow) miles between the two most extreme map points identified in the poem.

            In your “small scale solve,” how do you reconcile all the clues being in a small area and being able to see all the clues from a single vantage point when “[its] location is huge”?

            Regarding “followed” as in “I followed the clues when I hid the treasure” (paraphrased), have you considered other definitions?

            With regard to the LGII, please be careful and don’t dox her. Nobody wants to hear about another hatchet-man incident.

            Again, all opinions from a failing searcher, so FWIW.
            Joe

          • Joe,

            “Follow” can mean in ‘understanding’ rather than physical. The same for “lead” to me show, rather than being pulled by a leash, idea. This might revolve around the idea of the poem being a more, show n tell, rather than a point to point stomping.

            Huge can take on two meanings, one of size and also of importance. So the idea is “seeing” the big picture from a single vantage point. Example; look at any picture of the Grand Canyon AZ. What do you see? Now imagine how it became… a view and and understanding.

            Your original post involved the Little Indy scenario. I added Nope’s dilemma as well, and searcher who had the first two clues… the scenario I presented as all in one location [ the first two clues] but not understand why this location is needed. It’s possible that all can be at this location and not realize it is there ending point as well. In that scenario… nailing down the first clues implies a very ‘fix’ spot to view over a large area where the descriptions of the clues are within… a very specific spot.

            So back to the Canyon is AZ… Huge, right? where is the point we need to be at along that canyon? WWH [ or it’s true reference ] should help, but even then, we still need to find that “nailed down” spot, line of thinking. In this theory / hypothetical scenario… HLnWH references WWH [one in the same], and might help with that fix spot we need to be at from the start.

            So, look out over a canyon from a fix point at the first two clues, tight focus on what hoB might be, Drawing [ meaning; pulling toward ] back to your viewing station everything describe in stanza 3 .. right back to you.. possible standing at something referencing HLnWH @ WWH somewhere along the canyon ridge.

            No one can not get closer than the first two clues… it’s all about perception. You are at where you need to be… IF you are ‘exactly’ at where you are told to be. IMO… lol you’re looking at it all from the blaze. Does this explain why it would be impossible to find the blaze without WWH first?

            We’re just BSing our ideas and thoughts here… I personally think the stomping method is so popular because; we think to linear and literal, only involving movement of a searcher.
            So the ‘places’ the clues represent can be in a huge area, but we may not have to travel all those places. Each place would still have a geographical location, and all married to ‘A’ place on a map.. Married as in; united, blend, combined. linked, merge into the big picture.

            But again, we’re just BSing about thoughts and idea. Either of us could be right or we could both be all wet. I’m looking at this as, everything everyone as done is screwed up some how, and it all starts getting haywired, right at the start.

          • Joe –

            I am glad you are not blinded by all the words here.
            The take away from Forrest’s response about the Little Girl In India has nothing to do with NOT getting any closer.

            The take away is that anyone can solve the first two clues with just the poem and a map of the Rockies.

      • Francis, I think that the idea here is interpreting “home of Brown” with “home” meaning “origin” (e.g.: Temple, TX being the “home” or “hometown” of Forrest Fenn).

        So the origin, or home, of the color brown could possibly be a reference to the colors mixed to make it.

        I suppose one could also look at a geographic location as being the symbolic origin of the color brown as well. The Mud Volcano or the Artist Paintpots in Yellowstone National Park come to my mind as a couple of examples for place like this.

        • That’s right Blex, a home can be an origin. An origin of brown can be other colors. It does seem like a bit of a stretch, but just throwing it out there to see what other people think about it.

    • I found an article in Time Magazine from 2009 about endangered cultural places and among them was the Ennis-Brown House of Hollywood fame. Has anyone considered that Lake Ennis or the town of Ennis could be the Home of Brown based on the “Ennis-Brown House” comparison?

      • Dunno. Perhaps you have.

        When I think of “Sol”, I think of the sun.

        When I think of “Stanton”, I think of Arch Stanton.

        Is this good, bad, or ugly? Hee hee.

      • Sol –

        This is a great new idea.

        I have never heard of that famous house but still that’s interesting.

        Lugnutz

  1. I found my solve at the Fremont Canyon but there was no where to put in at the memorial for Brown. You could not see this on a map. Now, I know all about the horrible murder, suicide and the location of the over-turned bull boat in Osborn Russell’s writings. Was I upset? No, this was my 3rd check and BOTG of a solve which aligned perfectly on a map. The giddiness or thrill of going to the solve can only be felt not described. Forrest knew this as has searched similar clues. The Fremont Canyon is also one of the most beautiful canyons on earth. I cannot wait to check out my next solve, but I am stuck at the HOB. Everything else matches up…

    • Looks like more in the sagebrush than “in the wood”.
      I made this mistake early on in the Chase.
      Also kinda desert area.
      I need more trees.

      • lol, just xplained that to my wife. Being we are from Alabama, (the whole in the wood) aint exactly the same thing out west as miles and miles of timber and pine and large timber are the image that come to my mind, not barren bush dry climate wood. so idk.

      • Has anyone considered the “Woodbine” section of the 24k NF Topos? There is the Sioux Charlie Lake on the Stillwater River. Who is the most famous Charlie? None other that Charlie Brown I think. Also, there is a Cataract lake near there. Look up the definition of cataract and I think you can see where this leads but I have read that the hike may be more than an 80 year old could do twice in one day.

    • Maybe hoB is not a clue. Maybe you don’t “put in” like you would think. hoB could simply be a dead fallen tree the chest sits under. Don’t put to much emphasis on it and what do you have as far as a solve? If everything else matches up, maybe hoB, if it is a clue (which I doubt), is a BotG type of clue. In which case you would not know until you had the chest.
      For anybody to throw away a solve because a clue for them doesn’t match up is foolish. First off, you don’t know if it is actually a clue or not. Except for wwwh and the blaze.
      If you feel you solved the poem, and everything matches up to a point that if you posted the solve, you see nowhere that anybody could argue, then I would stick to it. There is a lot of info and hints, I would try to find as many as possible, to help confirm. If you notice that your solve starts with a guess of some place, then a whole re-evaluation may be in order.

    • @Wyoming Lover, if you cannot interpret home of Brown from your previous solve why not take note of all you see there anyway? because it likely won’t be obvious as none of the clues are obvious, or people would have figured them out by now, but keep in mind all the answers might be simple enough.

  2. There was clip or a story about Forrest talking about all the different shades of brown. Does anyone remember where this was?

  3. Does anybody think a cave is a home of brown? If so, are there any caves around west Yellowstone/Hebgen lake?

      • I thought that Forrest only said that the treasure itself is not hidden in a cave. I’m not seeing anything that would rule out hoB being a cave.

        • Ok guys.. finish the thought… You’re at hoB being a cave. What’s NPFTM or the end of something?
          I guess I’m asking; how a cave would work coming from one place and going to another.. I mean, fenn state caves and mines are dangerous, right? I would assume you might be thinking the cave as, a home for a bear or something… what’s the cave for, to represent home of Brown?

          • My thinking is a winter home for the Brown bear. But I was thinking that if one were following a river and passed a cave on the hill by the river, it would be the reason to ‘put in’ and change course to follow a creek nearby upstream?

          • Simpleton,
            Most bears don’t hibernate in a cave, Most bear dens are tight and more like a big hole for the purpose of retaining the animals body heat. A cave is normally much larger.

            My point is… how do you defined a cave for the purpose of hoB, as a bear’s home, for each cave?
            I’m not saying a bear doesn’t wander into a cave now and then… only that its rare for one to hibernate in a large open area… My example would be to google caves vs. bear dens to see my point.
            A “cave” doesn’t automatically refer to bears, is my point, and hard press for ‘me’ to think it would represent hoB as a clue.

            Too be honest… I know very little about Grizzlies habits. But i would think for the idea of a cave, black bears don’t bother with them much at all. Unless prey was chased into one.

            Just my thoughts on caves and hoB for bears.

          • I really wonder about the person(s) who chose that name. Plus Google sometimes takes you down some strange search results. I walked into that and I haven’t stopped laughing yet.

          • Seeker, most of what you said is correct but it’s not unheard of for a grizzly to den in a small cave. That being said, bears are stereotypically portrayed as living in caves. At this point, I’m just trying to re-examine everything. Obviously, there is something we are all missing or else someone would have found the treasure already.

          • There are plenty of caves out there located along the walls of canyons. I was merely thinking of a cave as a waypoint, without any requirement for one to actually need to go into the cave. So one would be looking for a creek to go up a bit downstream from a cave located in a canyon.

            And a cave could also be home to brown bats perhaps?

          • I’m reminded of the comment, “Most” of the clue “reference” were around when fenn was a kid.
            Assuming a clue reference [ in this case ] being a place/location… ya have to wonder if Brown is something that came after fenn was a kid, line of thinking.

            Many time when I read the poem with different thoughts rolling around, I always seem to think about things that have been, and should be, years from now. So the WhatIF idea is, can we ‘know beforehand’ what hoB refers to or only when on site? LOL we might be knocking our brains out for nothing.

            This would imply a need to nail down clue 1 to discover a clue later on [ex. hoB] rather than guessing… the observing part of the challenge, the imagination part of the solve… maybe even the planning?
            I mean, with all the emphasis on “wwh” or bust… hoB may not be known of without the first clue, and why folks may have walked by everything else. They went ‘looking’ for and ‘idea’ rather than trying to find it…

    • Yes. Avalanche lake above hebgen lake. There are two levels of an upper meadow and a lower level. The cave is on the second level. The strange thing about it is when you reach the lake on the first level you can’t tell there is a second level. The pine trees are scant. Lots of mesquitos.

      • I agree with all that. But avalanche lake is a good 4-5 mile hike uphill and I just think it’s too far for him to have done the trip twice in a day. I’m looking for something that might be visible from the Madison river or hebgen lake.

    • What about a title?
      If Brown represents something that requires a capital letter for a reference… does brown need to be capped or the title it represent is capitalize [ meaning; the clue is hinting at whatever Brown refer to is meant to be capped ]

    • Forrest Fenn was a trustee and large donator to the Buffalo Bill Cody Museum of the West. A pair of the other trustees and large donators at this Museum who know Forrest Fenn own a gallery in Cody, Wyoming. They also live in Cody, Wyoming. One of them is the Mayor Brown of Cody, Wyoming. So you put in below her home town Cody, Wyoming…. This is the road that goes through a Canyon passes Colters Hell and enters Yellowstone National Park. Forrest Fenn wrote about this place in the Thrill of the Chase last page after the poem. He also donated gold and Joseph Sloane pictures of Indians and cabin to the Buffalo Bill Cody Center of the West. His family always drove this way to enter and leave Yellowstone Park for well over twenty years…

      • Mike;

        Where did you get your information that : “. His family always drove this way to enter and leave Yellowstone Park for well over twenty years…”? I have never seen this printed. Thanks in advance.

        Why wouldn’t they have gone through Jackson, the Tetons, and then to West Yellowstone, instead of going up what is now hwy 20 to Cody and through the park to get to West Yellowstone?

        Just curious as to where you got your information – JDA

        • I don’t care much about the route… but fenn did say his father would drive 50 miles [ I think it was ] out of the way to visit an old school house.

        • Seeker: I think that “factoid” may fall in the 15% category. As if the drive wasn’t long enough, ole’ Principal Fenn’s going to take a 50-mile detour in a car stuffed with luggage, his wife, and three cranky kids (“Are we there yet??”) and no A/C just to show ’em a sentence he could easily quote from memory?

          • 1500+ miles and 5 days from Temple and you’re worried about another 100 miles?

            I would make you walk the rest of the way from the schoolhouse.

          • Jake: so everything in TTOTC is gospel to you? You really think he wound a ball of string so large that it wouldn’t fit through his bedroom door? That he could grind an agate into a modestly round marble in Spanish class in an hour with a piece of sandstone? That they really roped a buffalo and tied the other end to the front axle of Skippy’s car?

            Forrest warns right up front: “one of my natural instincts is to embellish just a little.”

          • Zap,
            Your reply comment had nothing to do with my comment.
            Now you can walk all the way to the home of Brown.

          • Zap,
            A/C didn’t hit the manufacturing auto line till 1939ish
            Mr.Fenn did sell the first car until Forrest was a bit old… how many summers did they drive with no A/C or camp-out with little comfort most have today.
            I’d have to wonder if the school [TX] even had A/C.
            And I dare say, if anyone is going on an outing for 3 months, you would bring the thing for that amount of time… In the 1930 -40’s. Point is; it was a different time and many didn’t have the little expensive luxuries or an outlet to plug them into on that kinda trip.
            Heck, they were milking a cow for the drink…Grandma had free range chicken eggs… fenn shot birds for dinner [ I wonder who cleaned those?]
            7 elevens were a bit scarce in those days. But I have to agree the kids had to be cranky… no game-boy, idiot phone, in car TV and a radio that probable could pick up a radio station for most of that 1600 mile road trip… The poor kids. It must have been hell on wheels to take a detour.

          • Hi Seeker: the lack of A/C comment was really an afterthought to the basic unpleasantness of 1500-mile car journeys of Forrest’s childhood days. Even when I crossed country from VA to CA (2600+ miles) in a compact car with no A/C and only an AM radio for “entertainment” in August 1984, my torture was nothing compared to Fenn’s because I could at least drive it at 75 mph on the flat (i.e. all of Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Iowa and Nebraska). Forrest maybe had one advantage: he didn’t have to hear “Stuck on You” twenty times while crossing the Midwest.

          • Jake: how do you not see the relevance? My comment gave clear examples of why you shouldn’t assume William Fenn supposedly deliberately drove 100 miles out of his family’s way — EVERY YEAR, BY THE WAY — just so they could see the same saying written above a 1-room schoolhouse.

          • Zap…whether they drove out of their way every year just to see a sentence on a building… or not… does not mean much to me. I think the take-away may simply be about not being remiss about the effort to *learn*… and to pass it along.

          • As a kid, we drove everywhere in our non-A/C equipped van and I never noticed a problem. We had no A/C at the house either and I didn’t know that I was supposed to need it. I think it’s dangerous to assume a kid back in 1940 thinks anything like a kid in today’s world. I loved our cross-country trips because it was the only time I was allowed to drink soda and it beat mowing lawns and doing house chores.

          • Jake: it was every year in the book:

            “So we drove 35 miles an hour for 1,600 miles with no air conditioning or radio. Even so, my father always drove about 50 miles out of our way; down a little dirt road to a one-room school house in Wyoming, just to show me what was written over the door. “He Who Teaches a Child Labors with God in His Workshop .” He was so proud about that.”

        • @JDA – Earlier today I was viewing a youtube video link to a Fenn interview and remember him mentioning his father’s annual route to YS. Fenn was talking about how gas was rationed (had to use coupons) and how it took them 5 days to get to YS because his dad only drove 30mph. I cannot remember the link, but it is posted on here somewhere—the first provided link was broken as the video content was being disputed, but someone else posted the aforementioned youtube link and it still worked. Long story short, I think that is where the route was defined by FF and is what Mike might be referring to.

  4. Don (in Irish) means Brown
    Could Forrest’s friend Donnie Joe, have had his ashes scattered at 10,000 ft by Forrest?
    Anyone know where he was buried? I can’t find any place yet.

    Or were ‘Don ______’s ’ home a place to look?
    Look at Forrest’s friends named Don, maybe?

    I like the thought of rowing …putting in at BN = Ben
    (B -‘row’ +N=BN)
    …as in Ben Franklin,
    as in $100,
    as in century,
    as in ‘bacon’,
    as in biscuits,
    as in cash,
    or as in a county road 100.

      • Replace Bingo at the top of your sheet with Brown. I think bingo and crossword puzzles violates what ff said, don’t mess with the poem. apply KIS principle.

    • Copperhead: you get a gold star for lateral thinking. :-). Not enough of that in the Chase IMO.

      • Zap

        Really?
        Why not the B row? Why row N?

        Why not Bromine Oxide
        Nitrogen Tungsten?

        It’s just your way that gets the gold star?

      • Lugnutz: relax, dude. Why are you getting your knickers in a bunch? I gave Copperhead kudos for some original thinking — something sorely lacking from most searchers. I didn’t say it was correct or relevant — I was applauding her originality.

  5. Cimmaron in Spanish means brown. Also, Cleveland is the home of NFL team Browns. The last one is a reach but both are logical.

    • Cimarron in Spanish means wild, untamed.

      Marron in Spanish means brown.

      Logic is often correlated with fact.

      • Take it easy dude I got that straight from Google translate. Take it up with them if it’s wrong. You don’t have to be a smart ass.

  6. Also, I keep going back to the fact that Fenn suggested a child might be helpful in solving the poem so I’m trying to think of more simple interpretations of the clues. For example, Hebgen lake. Why couldn’t that be home of Brown trout?

    • Simpleton,
      May I ask how long you been involved with the challenge?

      The reason I ask, is you use the term child. The comments I recall, “Kids” were used. The one comment about a child was in reference to a child walking up to the chest… fenn, more or less correct the searcher who stated “child,” saying a three year old would need assistance to get to the chest.

      I’m curious to the age group you “might” think fenn was talking about when he mention; kids may have an advantage?
      LOL it’s been a discussion for years on the age of a kid vs the term child. And many blogger use “child” in the same manner, even though they can’t produce a comment from fenn using ~ a child could solve it or help solve it. So how simple is this for thinking? I mean, one of the earliest comments was; the poem is difficult but not impossible.

      Here’s a Q&A for and example;
      Q~ Forrest, you talk about the clues being difficult to solve (opposite being easy) yet that the solutions are simple (opposite being complex). Yet when I read the stories of other searchers, I often think that their solutions to the clues tend to be either easy solutions or made out to be very complex and over-thought. Are there any suggestions you would give in approaching the clues and solving them? ~Craig
      A~Craig, there is no substitute for thinking and planning and observing and looking at maps, **unless it’s the desire to keep it simple.f**

      How much of that answer would a child be helpful with?
      Just a curious question…

      • Another comment, just for thought…

        “The poem in my book is something that I changed over and over again. When you read the poem it looks like just simple words there. But I guarantee you that I worked on that. I felt like an architect drawing that poem.”

        • I belive the comment that a kid would have an advantage to interpret the clues may refer that a kid dont come with the same bagage and preconceptions as we adults have been “learned”. Simplified i belive that bicycle Youtube video shows it really well.

          Regards from a fellow treasure Hunter from sweden/ erland

          • Johan from Sweden,
            Thank you for a very insightful post, and I believe you’ve hit the nail squarely on the head! Your comment begs the question: Why don’t youthful minds have the same baggage and preconceptions as more aged minds? But if we twist that question a bit, we might ask: Why can’t more aged minds cogitate without the baggage and preconceptions that seem to constrain older minds?

            As we age, does our mind become ‘locked in’ to think in specific ways based on our experiences, beliefs, biases, and opinions? The youthful mind is inquisitive, malleable, and open to new ideas and concepts, but why can’t the aged mind maintain these same attributes? Are we willing to accept as a fact of life that the aging mind eventually becomes a closed mind? Or, could it be a simple matter of choosing between a mind that is closed versus one that is open?

            If we remove all the layers, it seems to pare down to this: When we’re confronted with a debate, argument, or puzzling thought, can we choose to be objective and open-minded regardless of our age? Are F’s ‘youth’ comments intended to be literal, or should we be ‘Looking’ deeper?

            Stirrin’ the pot …
            Joe

          • One potential theory is fluid versus crystalized. Another is that around the age of 30 the human brain reaches maturity. Like our bones we become a lot less flexible unless we stretch. Yoga for the mind anyone?

          • Without getting into a bunch of philosophical reasoning…fenn may have hinted at the idea when he stated is mind set is of a 13 year old.
            Simply reading the poem as an adventure, an exploration, not unlike the L&C story… instead of a fixated goal to find a box of gold.

            Should the stomping point to point method be the idea behind the process of the challenge… shouldn’t we ask why fenn chose the clue ‘reference’ rather than just where each point is?
            Are they all connected is a way that is needed to be known of, even before deciphering what and where? And, could knowing the location of the clues ‘beforehand’ tell us what the connection might be about so we ‘can’ decipher the clues correctly?

            Just rambling and rumbling……..

          • We spend our whole lives consciously training our subconscious to do things a certain way. To make changes to our way of thinking we have to make a conscious effort to do so.

      • Seeker, I’ve been involved for a few years. But my use of the word child v. kid isn’t important and obviously the ages they encompass can be somewhat subjective . If I had to put a number on it I would say age 7-13. However, My point is that I’ve gotten the feeling that Forrest is trying to tell us to keep it simple so I’m trying to come at things from that perspective for awhile. We are all missing something and the more we discuss the more likely it is that somebody will eventually put it all together. At this point, I just want somebody to find the treasure so i can stop obsessing about it.

        • I believe (not correct in excerpt) that FF said during interviews …. will take your “kids” camping, fishing, looking for fossils and turn over logs to look for the treasure.
          He said the phrase (not the one above) many times in countless interviews and it was almost word for word each time.
          This is no red herring. He is telling searchers and giving clues that the chest is near camping, fishing, and fossils……and that a kid could find it. It is not in some far off remote place, especially where a 79/80 man could not go. There are not many 79/80 year old men who could hoof it up and down a remote canyon. My dad, who is healthy and a retired Marine, drove an eighteen wheeler until 81 and I can assure you he could not at 79/80, remote hike out west and too far off from a parking area.
          The chest is where most of the population can go with relative ease. FF wants all to have an equal chance at finding it, not just the hardcore outback, remote searchers.
          I’m sure this post will undoubtedly be met with fierce resistance and skepticism. If so, take your shots, it’ll be nothing new.
          Not to stray too far. I think a kid plays into this solve as the TC is where a kid could find it.
          Just my two cents.

          • No resistance from me Tarheel. The point about children being involved reminds me of Fenn’s comment about kids having an *advantage* and not wanting to explain that. The imagination can run wild with that thought and the intended meaning… but in general I believe it is pertinent and a kid has just as good a chance as anyone.

          • Also reminds me of this one… ” The biggest clue of all is: Don’t look for the treasure any place where an 80 year old man could not have taken it. That eliminates half the places where people are looking.”
            So… which half of the people is he talking about?

          • Ken;

            I always interpreted this as Indulgence is someplace low – like under an overhang – A place a child could easily go to (under) and an adult would have more difficulty – JMO – JDA

          • I don’t think the comment was relating all 80 yr olds. While I agree with your concept the challenge was meant kids and families of all age… I think fenn was only talking about himself as ‘at age almost 80’.
            I’m also reminded an interview where Shiloh was present { I believe } and said something to the affect about; the two of them walking/hiking around above 8000′ at age 80 or more.
            If some are interested in looking it up, I’m sure it’s in the media section of the blog. But don’t ask me which interview… I don’t remember.

          • JDA… I do keep that thought in mind too. Like I said…the imagination can run wild what his intended meaning was. For example: Is the problem we are trying to solve really that basic that a child can see what we fail to?
            Yeah Seeker, his comment may only refer to himself at 80. The rest of the comment kind of adds the perspective that it may be more restrictive than you think. At 80, before cancer ate my dad he was still out in the bush on 3 week hunts… but still not like what some folks may think. This comment that I am referring to was from People magazine 2017.

          • I’m with you tarheel. One of the first videos I watched which was just a couple weeks ago was when he fielded questions from a little girl a few times and she was asking if a kid could find it and something else’s similar and both times FFD replies your dangerous and yes a kid could find it. I believe most of the wolves I have seen are from far fetched deep thinking,over thinking the poem. Fish, hike ,camp, where an 80 yr old man can go packing weight.

          • Ken,

            I was more or less responding to Traheel’s idea.

            Distance, imo, doesn’t really matter when I think about who and where anyone can go.
            Terrain is another story. If a solve has you climbing over many large rock near a fast running creeks, walking up steep inclines, hiking in and out out a canyon [twice]… I doubt it will be a correct solve.

            ~ If you can’t make two trips from your car to your solve in several hours, then don’t go.

            While this is a guide line idea, there should be some truth it the hours spent hiking. Even if it’s only a 1/2 mile one way and done in two hours. Nothing in the comment implies where the clues start.

            Personally, I think that’s about all there might be involved… approx 1/2, or a tad more, mile into an area where the clues are located. But I was always curious to why add two trips?
            Especially when fenn recommends; Never search alone or when nighttime temperatures are low or when there is snow on the ground.
            Safety in numbers, I guess… but why mention to trips if someone is there to help carry things?

            Or is implying if one is alone… However with both comments ‘listed together’ they should equate to the same idea.
            It has to have some truth involved.

            On the flip side he also say; If you are going into rough country it is probably best to leave your pets at home.
            He’s not telling anyone where they can’t be at, just not ‘search’ where an 80 yr old can’t go carrying a heavy backpack. How far off the grid doesn’t seem to be a problem… but at the location seems to be another story.. I mean, how hard would it be to drive up a service road for a 5 miles, in the middle of nowhere and hike from there a half mile in?

          • Sure Seeker… all of that is plausible and more and I agree that the comment has to be used as a truth when deciding how to use it with a potential solve/area. My comment was more tongue in cheek… which half does that comment eliminate?

          • Hi Seeker: if there is one confounding pair of ATF quotes from Forrest, they are:

            “Don’t go into the mountains alone. Two searchers together is an absolute minimum, but three or even four is better. Stay within eyesight of each other. A whistle can be valuable if you get separated.”

            “If you have a searching partner, best to have them wait in the car.”

          • Zap,

            I’m responding while listen to PD link…
            Yep, a conundrum… One thought, this was around the time Randy’s dog was found, related? IDK. But I personally don’t like the idea, especially in summer leaving your pet/search partner in a car?
            The other thought could be… a reason for two trips might be because of ‘size’ or ‘tightness’ of the actual hide ‘spot’ ~ a hint, if you will, that it’s only room for one?
            I used the example of Rock City TN once. { lol the poem fits perfect there…} But the point is; some of the area is very tight for two to walk through side by side and ‘ducking’ is needed in other parts..yet.. it’s all out in the open. You’re snaking through crevasses and passages ways In the Smokys.

            But I’m still up in the air on those comments.

          • Zap –

            Those two comments do not in any way contradict each other.

            And that’s because he is talking about searchers in one case and retrievers in the other.

            You do not need anyone with you to walk up and grap it.

            If, on the other had, you are just hiking around the mountains of Montana don’t go alone.

            Or Wyoming

          • Lugnutz: that doesn’t fly with me. Retrieving solo will likely require two trips; why not cut the time in half (and marginally increase your safety in the process) by going together?

          • Zap –

            We are not on the same page, so le me retry.

            I am talking about Fenn’s response in context. In one case he is commenting about retrieving the treasure chest. In the other case he was referring to the process of wandering around aimlessly in the Rockies thinking of yourself as being a searcher of the treasure.

            Fenn, not me.

            I would not need anyone to accompany me whether retrieving or searching because I believe Forrest and therefore I would never go anywhere even remotely dangerous.

            He could have just as easily said, Because you are not listening to me you need to take someone with you on your wild goose chase!

          • Ken or Seeker: can you help me out here in trying to decipher what Lugnutz is saying? He’s right that I’m definitely not on the same page with him. Lugnutz: you talk about the context of the statements. But there was ZERO context for the “If you have a searching partner…” statement. It was a stand-alone line on MW. Can you give me your translation of this single declarative statement from Fenn?

          • Hello zaphod. Do you believe the statement might give a slight hint to a geographical location?

          • I kinda agree with Lugz…

            The idea. if you’re out looking for the treasure [ lets call that a “general solve” ] play it ‘safe’ and bring friends.

            If you have the “solve” [ The idea of being certain, not working of a hunch, but the idea of “what took me so long” – smack i the head ] There would be no need for a second hand, or maybe as I suggested, where the chest lays in wait is only large enough for one, line of thinking.

            Am I in the ballpark, Lugz?

          • Well Zap…if you say yes…Lugnutz will say no. As far as those two comments are concerned… it is probably risky to bet the farm on any single idea…. as with the majority of Fenn’s comments. I will say that CONTEXT may have some bearing though. Remember that the safety in numbers comment was from a list of tips as a response to someone with concerns for safety. In light of the unfortunate accidents involving the Chase… Fenn does need to stress ALL safety tips. The other comment is more dubious as it comes as a single one-liner from a MW entry… and maybe Fenn was just being Fenn. Truthfully… those comments don’t weigh on me enough to waste too much energy on. Safety should always be foremost on the top of the list.

          • Zap –

            The “context” for the comment about not going alone was the disappearance of Randy Bilyeu. I believe you were on the site then. F sent a bunch of weekly words to Jenny that could be posted while he stepped back from the Chase.

      • FF’s dad said “you don’t want to go up there. There are bears up there. Put in below the home of Brown? Also there is Blaze lake and if you look quickly down you see cold lake. I thing it was called cold or chilly. Can’t remember. Lightning lake is up there too. Little sister, big brother lake. Tons of lakes up high.

    • Simple-
      The excuse most folks use against Hebgen Lake (or any other lake) being used as HOB is related to the argument over the capitalization of the word “Brown”. Many people feel that the word “brown” in Brown Trout or Brown Bear or Brown Bat or etc…is not typically capitalized and if it is not typically capitalized then using the home of a brown bear or brown trout or brown bat would not be appropriate for the clue. In fact, we find it both capitalized and not capitalized in scientific and popular articles.

      For many searchers, a stronger solution for HOB would be to use Brown as a human name…as in the home of Stanley Brown or Eunice Brown.

      So using Hebgen Lake (or any other lake not named Brown Lake) as HOB generally is determined by how one falls on the use of the capital “B” in the poem vs it’s use in scientific and popular writing and, possibly more important, Forrest’s own use in his earlier stories.

      • It seems to me that since the Chase has begun, people have either bee-lined toward any geographic feature that shows up on a map with the name “Brown”, or any site or feature that is somehow connected through research with a historical figure named “Brown”. Forrest has responded to a couple of questions in which it appears he does not believe knowledge of typonomy or U.S. history are important in solving the poem.

        I feel like there is a different perspective that one needs to take in unraveling what hoB refers to, but what that exactly is I have no idea at the moment.

      • Thanks for the reply Dal,

        In my opinion, I don’t think it’s out of the question for Forrest to use a capital B for Brown bear, etc. Like you said, it is found both ways in both scientific and popular writings. Same with Brown trout. I just can’t help but think that Forrest wouldn’t use something associated with a proper name (Home of Molly Brown). Those types of things are too transient and may not be the same or recognizable 100 years from now. I think it’s more likely that all of his clues are geographic features that are longer lasting.
        Also, he has said that no special knowledge is required and to know that somebody named Brown did something near some creek 100 years ago seems a little specialized. Obviously, none of us have the answer but those are some of my thoughts.

        • Hi Simpleton, Not only transient, but to many to count, and not the least bit clever. I think being clever is important to Mr. Fenn. IMO

      • I’ve always struggled with Brown as a person’s name being “specialized knowledge” but I don’t think it can completely be ruled out so here we are…

        • Hi FMC. Mr. Fenn’s comment , “show the poem to a kid, they’ll get it”. In my opinion, pretty much rules out most of the over thinking.

    • One HOB that I liked was the Ciengullia creek out of EagleLake and can’t disprove it still but had trouble finding my way through to a make sense end. I’ve always liked NM anyway but that’s just me. Eagle Nest Lake is a clear gem in itself and and if there is anything there in human treasure terms I’d be ok with her keeping them. I will still go there to visit still giving searching a sideways look

      • Obvious connection in Ciena and sienna like wise with Lone Eagle and Eagle I and it takes you in fully. I’m just wondering now and questioning if names are totally relevant. If f ‘s poem had referenced clear gem stones should I run not walk to Diamond Mountain? Granted the Pacific Ocean will be just that for a long time, It’s possible what something is called holds no prize and if it does it’s coincidental.Still unsure and just guess thinking

  7. Simpleton I with you on the obsession view.It can get like that and easily too. You have plenty of company. Personally I’ve always been on the outside of things until I got Chased in so I’m grateful for rare and mysterious inclusions

  8. Wind river Indian reservation is a hob…….as you enter from the south side of it right at the boysen reservoir you have to go through a tunnel! That would be a literal put in below the home of brown…..boysen reservoir is also fed by hot springs…and as you go down river (but going north) your taking it into the wind river canyon ………

  9. Locations and clues may silently speak their own names for centuries I think.How have I gotten so involved. Must breakfast soon or I will be alone forever

  10. I’m liking hoB @ home of the NM state record brown trout which is also a wwwh location.

    • I can easily swim in that school but question it when I think about it in the context of forever. Just to be clear I ‘m FWBld

    • What happens to HOB when a new record setting trout gets caught in an entirely different spot in NM, one hundreds of miles away from the current record setting spot? I guess it would boil down to researching when the poem was written and cross referencing the record setting trout/location for that time frame? IMO, a record setting trout is beyond the knowledge of an average searcher who has just the poem, the book, and a map as a reference, but if it works for your solve, I wish you the best of luck finding Indulgence.

      • Disregard the record brown trout statement then. I’m just giving you the location. It’s the waters where it was taken. Indulge in that

          • Lol. It’s better than some of these other far fetched deep thinking revelations. Y’all over thinking the clues man.

          • Yes, it seems to get cyclical after a while—-over thinking, followed by simplification, then over simplification followed by purism entrenched in big picture/deep thinking logic, ad infinitum. I’m not sold on warm waters being NM fish and game defined warm fishing areas and again wish you luck in your search endeavors based upon your assumption that it is.

  11. I have come to a conclusion that “ Brown “,
    Was the key word! Imo
    I have an issue with the white, what are white clouds? Bones are white, salt white, white rocks?
    Stars look white?
    Thanks all !

    • I’m not seeing the connection between you thinking Brown is the key word and excluding white as the key word. Can you elaborate on why your are excluding white? Did I miss someone else stating the key word is white?

  12. Is Fenn catholic? Is there confession at the The Monastery of Christ in the Desert ?

    I go alone in there

    • Hello The Patriot. I believe Mr. Fenn isn’t Catholic, unless he converted. Yesterday, this monastery was on my mind because of the word “alone,” which etymology says the name “monk” has a meaning of “alone”. Mr. Fenn’s comments of “think(ing)” may suggest meditation.

    • It was their fear of heights that caused the monks to develop their monastery in the desert and not somewhere in the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe.

      • Priceless – and I hope your bark is worse than your bite!

        For those who haven’t visited the monastery, it is beautiful and very peaceful. The monks are welcoming, and there are designated monks that are allowed to speak if you need that sort of thing. There are nice cabins to rent and the grounds are lovely as well. It is a wonderful retreat for silent contemplation.

      • I don’t know the area, but it looks like this place is in a canyon, in the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe. For those who know this area, I would like to know your opinion, please.

      • Hello aardvarkbark. Your comment about fear of heights reminds me of the scrapbook about George Montgomery (?) being afraid of heights. I remember there was something recently mentioned about fear of heights.

        • Hello pdenver. You were away for awhile. Happy to see you back.

          My comment about heights was pure flippancy, to be honest. I was making light of the fact that, by their very name, these good monks declare that they are in the desert. There is no desert in the Rocky Mountains.

          I don’t have the exact quotes, but one time, f told someone ‘don’t waste your time searching in the desert.’ Another time, he said that a good understanding of geography of the Rocky Mountains would be useful.

          To your question one above the one to which I am replying, I know this area. There is some great hiking south of the monastery along the rim of the Chama River canyon.

          A good map of the Rocky Mountains in NM can be found here:

          https://geoinfo.nmt.edu/tour/provinces/southern_rocky_mountains/home.html

          The Tusas are east of 84. The monastery is decidedly west of 84.

          Also, FWIW, note that according to geologists, the Jemez are not technically in the Rocky Mountains.

      • Hi Jmeils, I believe that poetry was meant to be recited. So, I don’t place any value on how it is written, spelled, or punctuated. Just my thoughts.

        • James;

          How about a little test. Remove all of the punctuation in Forrest’s poem. Just type all of the words in a continuous string. Give what you have typed to someone who has never read Forrest’s poem, and ask then to read (recite) what you have written. My guess is that it would be rather incoherent. In order for the poem to be recited properly, the punctuation is needed. Try it – JDA

          • Hi JDA, If the words are written out in there stanzas, the poem reads just fine without any punctuation. On the Old Santa Fe resource page, in the blogs on page 3 the blog titled ,Cowboy Cartoonist, at the bottom is a poem, that to me, reflex’s exactly, Mr. Fenn’s mind set, on poetry, and life.

          • I agree James,
            With no caps or punctuation, there is a pause after each line.
            When Forrest recites the poem, can you tell where the punctuations and caps are by the way he recites it???
            I highly doubt it.
            The words in each line is all you need IMO.

          • James;

            But you said :”So, I don’t place any value on how it is written, spelled, or punctuated.” If you don’t care how it is written – why leave it in stanza format?
            If no punctuation, no need for sentences or stanzas. Either you believe how it is written or punctuated is not needed – or you want to say that only certain punctuation needs to be followed. You can not have it both ways – JDA

  13. It would not change my whole solve, just the way I think about Brown.
    Some here have it linked into all the clues or some of the clues and would think it would have a major impact on their solves.
    Then again punctuation may not play a role at all and make no difference.

    • Hi Jake, I’m thinking it was capitalized only to give an impression, but not a fact. A place to use our imagination.

      • Yes I meant “capitalization” not punctuation although either may not matter.
        Yes, A place to use our imagination. I haven’t a clue what it is so I am forced to put a place to HOB which I’m not thrilled with but content at this time. I sort of skipped what HOB is. Who knows maybe where it is, is more important than what it is.

  14. Uncle Joe Brown had two houses around the north gate, one st the mouth of Yankee Jim Canyon and another above Gardiner at the north gate. I’m certain this is HOB, Fenn’s clues about what you would see from here the chest is only fits Gardiner.

    The chest is not in a national park but near the edge of Yellowstone. Jardine Rd. Is “put in below the home of Brown”, the road just past Eagle Creek campground is only open between May and Oct, and Sheep Mountain is where Joe Meek escaped the Blackfoot Indians “no place for the meek”. I was chased up a tree by a Grizzly here in early Jun near Little Creek Trail, which is below Sheep Mountain.

    There is no doubt this is the area but it is still a huge area to search. I hope someone finds it who is actually looking for it but it’s more likely that someone will stumble across the chest. Fenn himself overcooked his own poem…

    • Forest has said that you won’t stumble upon the Chest. It’s probably wise to take his word on that

  15. One more thing, look at Gardiner, MT from Google, on the ridge north east of town you will see four houses lined up, the house furthest to the east is Joe Brown’s home and there’s a trail going down to his old mining claim on Bear Creek, the other three houses belonged to his mining partners.

  16. Question #1 on this: Brown is one of the only colors not in the rainbow. Is it significant that we are looking for the end of Fenn’s rainbow, and we have to pass brown on the way?

  17. Question #2: Do most people looking at this riddle solve this as “home of Brown” or do you treat each word individually, or do you ‘chunk’ the line in some other way?

    Asking for a friend.

  18. Question #3: This is actually the thing I’ve thought the least about. What is a “home”?

    Forest, cave, meadow, lake, river, woods, mountain top, ocean. I mean, we’re limited to geographic features/locations in the 4 states. All I know is that it’s not: an alien, a hobbit, the garden of eden, a man made structure?

    What is it? What is it not?

    • A place that one resides – The place that Buffalo once resided, or resides today – JMO – JDA

      • Agreed JDA, but we have to know that Forrest was there many times.
        Is there any info that Forrest was at your HOB?

        • Good [ point ] . A living (beating) heart is kinda maroon, and if
          dead (not too long ago), more like brown.

          Since “home is where the heart is”, if a person has recently died in the place they (presumably) love — their home, that person’s heart might be brown. Perhaps “home of brown” is a place “where FF’s heart is” or a place “where FF’s heart was”.

          On the other hand, perhaps a place whose name includes the
          word Heart, such as (guessing at possible place names) Heart
          Valley or Heart City or Heart Mountain, etc./similar . . . ?
          As always, IMO.

        • Wow: this thread has taken a bit of a morbid turn … but I suppose what better day? Even ties in with Edgar Allen Poe’s Telltale Heart. 😉

  19. “…home of Brown” Such an interesting set of three words.

    Hidden within the story of Cody,(Buffalo Cowboy) was this line, “Big buffalo bulls have no enemies so it was easy to slip up behind a tree and throw a loop, which landed on Cody’s head and wrapped around both horns.”

    “Big buffalo bulls…” caught my attention – three words starting with “B” or “b”.

    Why had this alliteration “Big buffalo bulls” caught my attention? Probably because Forrest had used an alliteration in the poem – where warm waters. Placing these three “b” words together created a mental link back to the poem .

    “Big buffalo = a Big “B” Buffalo – Buffalo with a capital “B” (I know this is weird thinking)

    “home of Brown.” Home and a word starting with a capital “B” = “home of Buffalo”

    “Oh, give me a home where the Buffalo roam…”

    Could this be the Capital “B” we are looking for? The “…home of Buffalo”? Just a thought – JDA

    • Thanks for sharing this JDA. I like that you point to a reason for the capital B as well.

    • Ya JDA, I’ll buy that.
      I was tossing the idea around that maybe there was one lone buffalo that hung out around a specific area along the madison and Forrest and his dad gave him a name “Brown”. We do know they fished the Madison religiously.

      They named Cody in “Buffalo Cowboys” why not “Brown”?

      No matter where Brown hung out around Madison, the river is always below.
      My only problem is that secret will only be known by the one alive and why would you have a clue about animals that have long been dead although the place will always be there.

      • When I was at UXU in WY they had an issue with two buffalo that wouldn’t leave. They had to warn all the guest that the buffalo weren’t pets and to keep back. I can definitely see how buffalo can become attached to a location.

        • Ya Idle Dreamer, some buffs like a place or spot to call home and no one should tell them otherwise. Best to leave them alone and keep a fair distance.

          They were there first and we are just visiting. Good edicate.

    • And what is on the Wyoming state flag? So below the state (buffaloes home) you would put in. I have several ideas but wwwh is still eluding me, I’ve recently decided to focus there, gotta nail it down

  20. I have been away from the chase for a bit, but I saw the new post and started thinking…

    In the chapter Bessie and Me, F states “My father got a Guernsey calf that grew up to be a beautiful fawn-colored animal. We called her Bessie.” I was thinking about fawn-colored as brown. Could that be a hint as to what the home of brown is? I have always thought that Bessie was part of the solution because my key word leads me as identifying the blaze as Elizabeth (the formal name of Bessie). I am biased, but to me, F refers to royalty a lot! Guernsey cattle are from the British Channel Island Guernsey. I googled “tea Olga” and came up with a brand of tea called Grand Duchess Olga. The last 2 scrapbooks had hints of royalty – Ovaltine – a registered trademark of Associated British Foods. Rooster Cogburn was played by John Wayne aka The Duke. There are lots of other references to royalty. Maybe if Bessie or Elizabeth isn’t the blaze, maybe Bessie or fawn has something to do with the HOB. (Smile at a homely girl – Bessie the cow?) These ideas may have been discussed before, but I’m not aware of it, so I thought I would throw this out there for discussion.

  21. Well, I am glad to see that Dal has finally seen the light and opened up discussion on hoB, the most important clue in the poem. There are hundreds of WWWH and canyons to take down in the Rockies, but only one leads to the home of Brown. I have just read all of your comments top to bottom, and with only one exception all believe the treasure is in or near Yellowstone. I do as well, but have a Colorado solve that meets every clue in the poem. Can’t wait for next summer. I will check it out on the way to Yellowstone.
    I think you work backwards from hoB, Whether it be a cave, a lake, a river, an actual home of a person, or a brown spot on a map, the map holds the clues. Once you have narrowed the search to hoB, boots on the ground take over the chase. The Patriot is right, FF definitely over cooked the poem.

    • Jack-
      I’ve actually “seen the light” since July of 2014. That’s when this topic started on the blog. Perhaps you are not familiar with the “Searchers Discussion” index…on it you will find current topic pages and the archives of previous topic discussions…
      It can be found here:
      https://dalneitzel.com/searcher-discussions/
      and also in the right hand column under “Searcher’s Discussions”

  22. Dal. I am a newbee, just got hooked last winter and took my first chase this summer in Yellowstone and Colorado. Thanks for the links, hoB will lead someone to the cache.
    I noticed on WWWH you like the Firehole River, so do I. Gardiner looks good but I think so many people have been there that it would have been found by now. But after actually being on the ground where I thought it was, the search area is much bigger than you think, so it could be missed. I feel that way about one of my solves on the Firehole. Going back next summer.

    • Jeeze Francis-
      Have you even bothered to look at the material on this blog…?
      There is an entire section for write ups of solutions called “Other’s Adventures”.
      In it you will find stories folks have written about searching in areas all over the RMs north of Santa Fe…
      Several of those stories are about searching in the Brown’s Canyon Area.
      And if you are systematically challenged with menus then you could simply use the search mechanism at the bottom of the right hand column and type in “browns canyon”.
      If all of that is somehow against your grain than you could click on one of these:
      https://dalneitzel.com/2015/12/09/browns-canyon/
      https://dalneitzel.com/2017/07/27/browns-canyon-solution/

      and there are more from that area…but I’m hoping you take the time to look them up…and read them…

    • Funny!! I think Brown’s Canyon CO (and surrounding area) is the initial solve for perhaps 80% of all searchers. It’s more like, who hasn’t tried looking there? Good memories though. I didn’t even have the poem memorized yet and was walking around reading the poem from a piece of paper trying to match up clues on one of my first searches along the Ark – and stumbled upon a family from Iowa doing the same thing. And now I walk thru the woods singing the poem as a grizzly deterrent. So far, it has worked. The grizzly deterrent, I mean.

  23. After a couple months of study, I have located a home of Brown, it contains at least 3 different families of Brown, all that ff would be familiar with. It falls in line with all the proceeding clues. Is, look quickly down, like looking down into a geyser, cause you never know when it might erupt ? but that does not fit my solve. So it will be boots on the ground next summer to see if I can tie up some loose ends.

  24. If you knew where the home of Brown was you would go right to the chest per Mr.Fenn. Time to use deductive reasoning/logic considering we have all winter to hash this out. Spreadsheet anyone?

  25. Could a campsite qualify as home of Brown? Due to the inherent quality of a campsite being temporarily occupied, I struggle with the idea of considering a campsite to be a “home” (Unless you strongly believe in the notion of “Home is where you hang your hat”?).

  26. I think the clue “put in below the hob” is the home of Brown trout which is the Madison river et al and nothing more. Call me simple but he is a fellow fisherman so I can relate to his poem in this way. I think all the clues are specifically “nfbttw” in proximity to this location as well.

    • Introduction to browns in the upper Firehole River (Wikipedia):

      Introductions of brown trout into the American West created new angling opportunities, none so successful from an angling perspective as was the introduction of browns into the upper Firehole River in Yellowstone National Park in 1890.[32] One of the earliest accounts of trout fishing in the park is from Mary Trowbridge Townsend’s 1897 article in Outing Magazine “A Woman’s Trout Fishing in Yellowstone Park” in which she talks about catching the von Behr trout in the river:

      Long dashes down stream taxed my unsteady footing; the sharp click and whirr of the reel resounded in desperate efforts to hold him somewhat in check; another headlong dash, then a vicious bulldog shake of the head as he sawed back and forth across the rocks. Every wile inherited from generations of wily ancestors was tried until, in a moment of exhaustion, the net was slipped under him. Wading ashore with my prize, I had barely time to notice his size—a good four-pounder, and unusual markings, large yellow spots encircled by black, with great brilliancy of iridescent color—when back he flopped into the water and was gone. However, I took afterward several of the same variety, known in the Park as the Von Baer [sic] trout, and which I have since found to be the Salmo fario, the veritable trout of Izaak Walton.

      — Outing Magazine, (1897)[33]

  27. All I see is grasping at straws, its time to pay attention when reading the book and the poem and not speculating. Speculating = big guessing!

    • All I see is grasping at straws. So many far fetched revelations. But you know why right ! Overthinking a complex poem.

  28. Ahh the Madisons et al lol, that warm ole Firehole. A legit search area for sure.
    Im sure many have searched it.

    • I believe many have searched the area where tc is located. Many believe it’s been searched already it’s not there. Not true.

  29. Barbara Shelley once taught me that “Hob” is a nickname for the Devil (that was a freaky movie). The “Pirates of the Caribbean” franchise more recently used it to reference Davy Jones (the Pirate not the Monkee).

  30. I love the idea of the post it note for solves, kudos to whoever brought that up.
    I think all the clues are fairly close to each other as they confirm or reference each other.

  31. I suggest every searcher to watch the movie “National Treasure (2004)” starring Nicolas Cage and Sean Bean, and to pay attention to the first riddle where “Silence” appears. I think Fenn was inspired by this and used the same idea in his poem, IMO.
    – MajinKing

    • If you think about the chase every day watch King of California. Definitely helped me with the chase.

      • Hi Idle Dreamer,

        I’m not sure how King of California helped you in solving and finding out HOB for your chase, but in case you haven’t watched the movie, here is the riddle and what Cage said in the movie to solve that riddle.

        Riddle: The legend writ, the stain affected, the key in Silence undetected.
        Fifty-five in iron pen, Mr. Matlack can’t offend.

        Cage said: But wait, Silence is capitalized, so it is a name. The most famous person that has Silence in their name is Silence Dogood aka Benjamin Franklin. When he was 16, he secretly wrote 14 letters to his brother’s newspaper pretending to be a middle-aged widow called Silence Dogood. That means, the map has to do something about the Dogood letters.

        By the same token, I think Brown in our search for the chest has to do with somebody named Brown if we want to identify the home of Brown correctly. In addition, if Fenn wanted to point to the actual structure he might have used the word “house” instead of using “home”, IMO.

        — MajinKing

        • That is a good theory MK. Only so many more people named Brown to choose from than people named Silence. Any thoughts on how to pick the right one?

          • Hi Aaron,
            I think, of course, there is only one correct Brown to choose for the correct solve, every searcher has to pick their own Brown who is related to the general search area depending upon the particular WWWH he/she has chosen to use for the solve. Don’t you think?
            — MajinKing

          • MK, for a HoB riddle to work the same as you suggested from National Treasure then we wouldn’t necessarily be looking for anything named Brown near WWWH.

            You said: “Cage said: But wait, Silence is capitalized, so it is a name. The most famous person that has Silence in their name is Silence Dogood aka Benjamin Franklin. When he was 16, he secretly wrote 14 letters to his brother’s newspaper pretending to be a middle-aged widow called Silence Dogood. That means, the map has to do something about the Dogood letters”

            So if you applied the same theory to Brown then it seems like you would be looking for someone that used Brown as an alias or pen name.

  32. Let us return to the days of yesteryear. Some ideas are being re-thought due to the revelation that some have trod 200-500 ft from the TC.

    One early thought on this home front was the possibility that the Christ In The Desert Monastery is a home that is
    Brown. There is a wonderful “blaze” emitted from it at night due to its
    architecture. There are some wonderful night shots of this blaze on google
    images.

    It being not far from The Ghost Ranch (
    no place for the meek) just across The Chama and “in the canyon down” from the Rio Ojo Caliente (WWWH).

    As a footnote ff said you may wish to celebrate with a six pack. Those Monks brew some mighty fine brew.

    Put in below the home of Brown….the Rio Chama….some of the best trout waters in North America!

    Until that TC is found….all options are still on my table and I am back paddling to some early “solves” just encase they were in close proximity.

    HI-HO HI-HO…next Spring it is off to search I go!

    • Exactly what I came up with only looking for a couple weeks via armchair adventures.

      Go get it.

  33. Mr. Fenn said that he felt like an architect drawing the poem. I wonder if he was inspired by the local architecture, when writing/drawing the poem?

    • James P –

      I think he is referring to a specific architect. In stead of asking “How so?” We should be asking “Oh, which one?”

      IMO
      Lug

      • Oh man. This is good and 15 minutes later I’m even more confident of my solve. I know the architect.

      • Hi Lug, Mr. Fenn has referred to himself, as a “wordcrafter”, a “wordsmith”, and a “word architect”.

        • I believe if ff was referring to an architect it is George Nakashima. He designed the Monastery Christ in the desert. George Nakashima was an American woodworker, architect, and furniture maker Made from wood.

          I also believe hob is the Rio Chama upstream from the Monastery where the wwh is and the Brown trout flourish.

          All that gets you in the general area. Now narrow it down to the blaze.

          • The Patriot –

            I like your thinking, and what follows is My opinion only.

            There is a cycle or pattern to the Chase. You are in what I would identify as an early stage. Many start in New Mexico. Over time they begin to explore the borders and look into southern Colorado or make the leap to Yellowstone. From Yellowstone they begin to move out into Montana. After Montana comes the next step in the cycle. Some get stuck anywhere along the wheel. In the past 19 months a good number of folks are stuck in Montana. I might even say the wheel is stuck. The wheel is stuck. They cannot move to the next stage because they are fixated. Coming here will reinforce that target fixation. I like to think I’m at the next stage and I don’t know if there will be another.

            On a wheel this places me both in front of AND behind the same searchers. Until the wheel stops and we find out who is standing where.

            Lugnutz

          • Lugnutz. I hear ya. I see people all over the place far and wide but I really believe it’s not that far but too far too walk. It’s in NM.

  34. if the place is near and dear to him – wouldn’t you think that is a clue for home of brown being a deer

      • I would agree with you pdenver but there is such a large deer land formation that to me is home of brown and the deer is near to him and its not far but to far to walk

  35. Hi All. My HOB is Browning Montana.
    Put in below the home of brown.
    Put in means to put in on the end of Brown to give Brownin.
    Below the home is a basement.
    To get to the basement you take an elevator.
    Which button do you push in the elevator to get from ground floor to the basement?
    The “B” button in the USA.
    But in Russia they push the “G” button, thanks Wikipedia.
    Giving you Browning.
    Sounding far fetched?
    Join “put in” together.
    Putin, the Russian president.

    • Ya, pretty far fetched seeing Forrest wanted us to get outdoors in the wood, not in an elevator.

      • Jake I completely agree and here we go again with, “not associated to a structure”f frank doesn’t get it.

        • The only type of structure that may be associated to some of the clues are roads. If those are considered structures. He did say he followed the clues and parked his sedan.

          • Jake,

            I don’t believe roads or paths are structures, you need to use those to get you to where one is going. I believe F parked his sedan near the blaze and not before. Actually no one really knows when he parked the sedan, but it will be obvious where for the one that finds the tc.

          • frank,

            Please don’t instruct me and tell me I’m lost. Some folks here have been trying to point you to that the clues are not assoc. to structures.

            You have your own theory as well as I have mine.

            Please don’t say your right, simply because you don’t have the tc. How about respect here, please!!

        • Charlie for your information – no paddle is a structure its not where the tc is but its a clue a very important one at that. but I have nothing to worry about -cause what I can see from here – you are still lost

          • frank;

            How can a paddle be a structure. It is a “Thing” – not a structure. Look up the definition of “structure”.

            Also – what you offered is an “OPINION” not a FACT! J MY O JDA

          • JDA your opinion says its not a structure and my opinion says it is and as far as using imo I don’t see any one using it – maybe what every one says are facts – I think dal needs to remind every one about this rule or maybe I should say his rule .

          • frank;

            Almost all posters use “imo”. Dal does not have to remind us of “his” rulews, they are posted at the top of every thread under “RULES” – Here is the one you SHOULD be using ;
            \
            “RULE #6: Don’t confuse readers. There is a difference between fact and opinion. No one knows where the chest is located until they have it in their hands. So, until the chest is in your hands, you cannot say that you know where the chest is located or that you have solved the poem…Saying these things will lead casual readers to believe the hunt is over and someone has found the chest… which is not the case. You cannot claim you have found it or know where it is or have solved the poem unless the chest is in your possession…until then it’s only your opinion. Making unsubstantiated claims will result in banishment from our community.

            I am not trying to play traffic cop. It just helps the newer posters to understand what is FACT, and what is OPINION – JMO – JDA

          • Charlie 3 times I have been nice to you even though all I have gotten are smart remarks from you – you want respect you got- it but lets get the same from you

    • @ John R – Thank you for sharing your thought processes about how you arrived at your HOB and I do wish you the best of luck in your search endeavors.

      I have read most of the followup blogs to your initial post and find myself questioning those processes of yours.

      For starters, how do you associate the command to “Put in” as meaning to put the word IN at the end of the word Brown? The full command seemingly is to “Put in BELOW” not “Put in AT THE END”.

      After that, you talk about elevators and I must ask how many homeowners do you know that have elevators going down to their basements? I think it is safe to say most people have a flight of stairs without the need for labeling how to use them to go up or down.

      Then you change from the American standard to the Russian standard with no apparent command from the poem to do so, or any reasoning behind why.

      Then you combine the words Put and In to get Putin, again with no command to do so from the poem or any reasoning why.

      And when you back up a couple of lines from your Putin comment, you even ask we the readers if your thought processes are “Sounding far fetched?” and when we try to give you counter examples, etc. you take offense.

      IMO (With a wink to my old friend JDA), the whole process you presented does sound far fetched and is contrary to other established search criteria by none other than FF himself. If you want to continue thinking contrary to FF’s own comments, as I said before, best of luck to you.

      • My apologies, John R. I still question your thought processes, but it was Frank who got upset when others tried to refute some of his assertions with information confirmed by FF.

      • Bowmarc. Thanks for the reply. I agree that the process is a bit disjointed, and that I am probably wrong on Browning. I am looking at that line as a cryptic clue which does not need to make perfect sense, and cryptic clues often use this process. Forrest has mentioned elevators before and has made mention of Russia too. Reverse engineering could refer to an elevator going down as opposed to up. Also Browning is shown on the map in TFTW, could this be the unintended clue?
        Finally on page 130 of TFTW he talks about the tacks he was given that were 9mm in diameter? Isnt that an abberation? I am from New Zealand and we use the metric system, but the USA uses Imperial, metrics is foreign to most Americans. Why did he not say three eighths? Perhaps the clue is Browning 9mm High Power semi auto handgun.
        My WWWH is Whale Lake Montana. It is an anagram of Waters Halt. Start Whale.

    • John R. – Browning, MT is in the heart of the Blackfeet Indian Reservation. What do you See, when you “look quickly down”? Brown Indian feet. And the Blackfeet figured prominently in Forrest’s favored “Journal of a Trapper” by Osborne Russell.
      Did that tribe have a ‘Trail of Tears’, like so many other tribes did, when forced to leave their homelands to travel long distances to get to the Blackfeet Resrvation? Could Browning, MT also be your WWWH?

      Here is a ‘Big Picture’ of a TFTW neighboring Yak Valley, that looks like one of Forrest’s Clovis Points to me:

      http://yaakvalley.org/download/big-picture/

      I think you are off to a good start. But I think the bronze chest would be hidden ‘Off the Rez’.

      IMO.

  36. JDA I have been here for 5 years I know the rules I looked at all the comments above and out of all of them all I found were 3 imo really JDA really

  37. I try to remember to start off my solves with “I believe”.

    At the end of the day tho we all have opinions and there is no need to bash someone else’s. If they mistakenly don’t say I believe or IMO I don’t think we’re all gonna think they found it because if somebody finds it it will be a more profound statement. You may interpret structure differently than others. I basically got attacked on my first post here. Geez y’all.

  38. Patriot lol just hang in there – don’t tell anyone that they are wrong- and don’t let anyone tell you that you are- good luck on the chase

  39. I am aware that this is
    “backdoorish”, so I’ll keep it short
    as my connectivity to HOD seems erratic.
    BUSTER BROWN AND HIS DOG
    TIGE LIVE IN A SHOE.

  40. Hi Aaron,
    Since you haven’t left a reply button, I’m replying in this way.
    What I pointed out was that Fenn might have used the same idea of capitalizing his key name Brown, not Benjamin Franklin using an alias name Silence. That’s all. I still think that Brown and the home of Brown is the key word of the poem. Fenn mentioned that if you have the hoB nailed down, you could go directly to the chest (paraphrased).
    — MajinKing

    • I used to think that Brown was potentially the keyword. I don’t think that anymore, but think it’s very important. I also think it’s possible that HoB is the area the treasure is in.

      • Hi Arron,

        As Fenn pointed out many times I think the TC is hidden about 500′ from the HoB. So the most important thing is to find where the HoB is. As soon as you nail that, the “meek” creek, the end, the blaze, and the TC will be obvious. So that the searcher can go to that place CONFIDENTLY as Fenn also mentioned.

        — MajinKing

    • MajinKing,

      I’d think if one found the place of hoB would make it easier to finish out the remaining clues, but there is a lot of work to do after hoB. One question is, how far is “below the home of Brown? Is it feet, yards or miles below the hoB?

      • Hi CharlieM,

        I think you mean the distance from the HoB to the put in point, right? I would guess it’s somewhere between 50 and 100 yards or so. But please don’t ask me how I got that.

        — MajinKing

      • CharlieM, a leopard cannot change its spots and it’s my belief that no mortal human can crack this nut. Too complicated and complex. It will require the assistance of a specially written computer program to reveal the solve. I’m surprised such has not already been done. I would think that such a challenge would be candy for such an individual with the requisite talents. No doubt, when she does so, it will be a thing of beauty, at least in the eyes of her fellow techies. LT

        • Lori;

          A computer program can NOT think. A computer program can only make decisions based on a given set of information that is provided by the programmer. Yes, today Artificial Intelligence can come to play, but AI relies on accumulated data.

          Forrest has said that Imagination id more important than knowledge. A computer has knowledge (data) – It has NO imagination. An old computer slogan – Garbage in – garbage out. If a programmer supplies the program with the false information that he has been using – guess what the result will be. JMO – JDA

          • JDA. You have explained the logic of computer intelligence perfectly and simply. IMO. There is no wisdom nor imagination in computers. Just the current knowledge , or lack thereof, from humans; be it truth or untruth knowledge inputs and best guesses. IMO. The only person whom could write a computer based program to solve this poem would be FF. IMO.

        • Hi Lori — many have attempted to use computer-based tools to shrink the search area, but outright solving a cryptic poem is well beyond a computer’s capabilities. There are puzzles that a 4-year-old can solve that are beyond today’s computers’ abilities.

          I’ll leave you to consider Forrest’s quote from the EIS Radio interview (8/8/2013): “I still have about, uh, something like 4,000 arrowheads. And I tell people I’m saving those, because after the next war, I’ll make a fortune selling my arrowheads to different armies around the world. Einstein had said, ‘I don’t know what we’ll fight World War III with, but World War IV is going to be fought with sticks.’ And the technology is changing so fast. I mean, if your computer is two years old, it’s archaic today. Technology is not going to help you find that treasure. But your mind and your body and your attitude changes as things change.'”

          • JD n Zap, thanks much for your responses. As two of the more respected voices on this forum, IMO, I humbly defer to your opinions. The current, and unfortunately permanent, state of my intelligence does not permit even the most elementary understanding of such things as computer programming and code writing. It’s all Greek to me. Again, thanks for your input. I stand corrected. LT

          • Hi Lori — the main (positive) message I meant to get across to you is that you have just as much chance as anyone else — to include computer programmers. You are not at a disadvantage. Good luck!

          • For a program to be effective in solving the poem it would need to be written with some knowledge of the sort of problem to be solved. I’m fairly certain that human intuition and creativity is a far better tool than a computer’s mindless data crunching for figuring out what sort of a problem Mr Fenn has posed to us.

            Would a computer have made the choice to sneak out the window to escape class or watch the gypsys? Would it make the decision to head out into the woods with a horse, a fishing rod, a map and three Snickers bars? Mr Fenn doesn’t make the same sort of choices that a computer would make, so I wouldn’t trust one to figure out his thinking behind the poem.

        • Obvious to who? How does knowing hob tell what or where the creek is? Do you believe that the poem is talking about a REAL creek?

          • tighterfocus,

            When one correctly identifies the hoB and one correctly identifies no place for the meek, I strongly believe there will be a real creek as in no paddle creek. The creek will have water but too shallow for any type of watercraft, IMO

            Just Say’n

  41. I think the distance is key and in my opinion it is less than a mile but more than a few feet. The distance up your creek however I think is at least a mile possibly two from FF parking place.
    I don’t discount brown trout when I work on my solves but believe that HOB is a person. The Buster Brown theory is outside the box and I believe that you must think inside the box, but it is certainly intriguing, I will look into it.

  42. When I checked the Reddit website sometime last week, searchers were discussing about the Yellowstone National Park and Grafton Tyler Brown who drew many paintings of the prominent features in it.

    — MajinKing

  43. An HOB inside Yellowstone National Park?

    William H. Clagett was a lawyer and politician from Nevada and later Montana Territory who is credited with writing and introducing the bill in Congress that established Yellowstone National Park.

    In a short letter to the Secretary of the Minnesota Historical Society in 1894 he describes the history of the establishment of the region as a park. A narrow portion of that letter is quoted below:

    “…soon after the return of the Washburn-Langford party, 
two printers at Deer Lodge City, Montana, went into the Firehole basin and cut a large number of poles, intending
 to come back the next summer and fence in the tract of 
land containing the principal geysers, and hold possession for speculative purposes, as the Hutchins family so 
long held the Yosemite valley. One of these men was named Harry Norton. He subsequently wrote a book on 
the park.
    The other one was named Brown. He now
 lives in Spokane, Wash., and both of them in the summer
 of 1871 worked in the New Northwest office at Deer Lodge. When I learned from them in the late fall of 1870 or 
spring of 1871 what they intended to do, I remonstrated with them and stated that from the description given by them and by members of Mr. Langford’s party, the whole region should be made into a National Park and no private proprietorship be allowed.”

    This is one rationale that I have heard several searchers use for naming the geyser basin around the Firehole River as their Home of Brown.

    Questions arise-
    1. How do the clues in the poem get you to this region?
    2. Although it fits the bill as far as NPFTM is concerned, where do you go from here to complete the path?
    3. Is awareness of this letter specialized knowledge in the area of historical documents?

    Finally, this is a large area…although we have no idea what the HoB actually is, is the geyser basin to large to be considered a HoB?

    • Too “specialized” for me. If one (perhaps FF?) imagines a child being able to
      solve the poem, then one should think about what that child would know. I don’t
      imagine many children of any age would know about the info that you posted
      above. As always, IMO.

      • Tighter-
        I have had no more luck than anyone else on the source of Forrest’s comment about “ask a child”. I do remember that comment and the impact it had. It may have originated on Stephanie’s first web endeavor, her blog…prior to chasechat. Since her blog isn’t around any more, that could explain why no one can find the quote. But more importantly, I believe Forrest’s comment was in reference to a single clue…not to all the clues. I believe that Forrest was answering a question about WWWH….and his reply was “ask a child where warm waters halt”…or something quite similar. The reason I remember it that way is because it triggered a lot of folks to start looking for something related to a bathtub…Bathtub Springs, Tub Creek, Indian Bath Springs, Laundry Springs…etc…
        As I remember, Stephanie was looking in CO at the time and she found an actual abandoned bathtub on one of her searches and thought certain she had discovered the place to begin.

        • Think that is right Dal, that’s how I remember it. I think it got confused to the hiding spot is safe, that a family could go comments. All of a sudden, a child could go and solve the clues to find the spot, instead of , wwh had to do with a bathtub. It’s the typical telephone game. Chinese whispers.

    • Dal,
      #3. I don’t think anything that could relate to stories in the book would be considered “specialized knowledge”.. for me the meaning is; advance or expertise on a subject… Rocket Scientist come to mind for an example. As well as; Latin, Bible verses, Head Pressure etc etc.
      But, on the same subject, IF we as individuals need to study up on something we just don’t know about { geysers for example } are we breaking any rules just because we never seen one? IF there is any calculations involved { such as triangulation } is it wrong to refresh this subject of math? If I my reading of maps /GE was very poor, would it be wrong to seek expert advise?

      OK back to your topic; IF hoB is that large {The Shoshone Geyser Basin is 80 acres alone}… then the sky is the limit to how large a search location could be… I ‘personally’ don’t see that from fenn’s comments that folks got the first two clues and walked by everything else; my one example;
      ~“There are several people that have deciphered the first two clues. I don’t think they knew it, because they walked right on past the treasure chest.”– (Moby Dickens Book Shop Signing / November 2, 2013)

      How can anyone get to hoB and beyond ‘without another clue’ to get folks within 500′ ~ walking clues {the clue’s location} and possibly do this in two trips in one afternoon?

      More rambling and rumblings…

    • Dal with most respect, I doubt most children could do that advance developed research. ff said the poem, a good map and google, were the basic tools to get one there, when he referred to google, made me think as a dictionary for more exact info about the words he uses. I think many things ff has written or said since the first book is just creative clutter, not lies just not directly related. We know he wanted people to get off the couch and outdoors. But I think as an after thought, when he saw how the chase grew, he also could get people to read more about real history. Which is a lofty reward with in itself.

      • “creative clutter” ???
        You’re definitely misunderstanding somethings or just missing his point.

      • Greg ~ ‘doubt most children could do that advance developed research.’

        Will someone show me where fenn has implied children can solve this?
        Kids have an advantage… see that. And the reason why…
        Show the poem to our kids… seen that. { the whole point was to get the little ones interested… right?
        And sure we can argue an age group… but could most 9 year old truly solve this challenge? How about young teens? 13 15?
        There is a lot of emphasis on the idea kids, children can solve this… But I don’t recall fenn saying as much. Maybe I didn’t get the memo, or e-mail or text, or a tweet or voice mesage…

        • I think ff is referring to the fact that a childs imagination is not yet all bogged down by facts and boundaries, that most adults have. FF has a very active imagination, that has taken him to many places in his own mind. Lets just call it his Yellow brick road, and we all are Dorothy. Looking for Emerald City, but we need the help of a Scarecrow, Tinman, a Lion and the Good Witch of the North, to get it.

  44. Jake, please enlighten me, as I do not believe ff is giving out anymore clues to the chase, he has repeatedly said so. Hints are even more vague then clues. Hints that you have to tie to a particular clue. If you cant decipher the correct clue, then the hint is not of much use, It just seems so many are getting away from what ff said about the poem and the solve. Maybe you all like distracting everyone on wild geese chase, afraid some else might solve it. Brown is one of the most common names in the world, right behind Smith and Jones, if it has anything to do with last names at all. Why not Professor Emmit Brown, then we would find ourselves, Back to the Future.

    • greg, you need to enlighten yourself.
      Is the Cheat Sheet creative clutter?
      https://dalneitzel.com/cheat-sheet/
      How about all the safety comments by F?
      What about the Scrapbooks, vignettes and other interviews?

      If you’re a poem purist, just let me know and I will run the other way without looking back.

      • Jake, the cheat sheet really help most some of the hints to one place, and should not be ignored. I did take time to read thru 179 of the Scrape books comments and made some notes for further reference. The safety comments pretty much expanded on what the 1st stanza says about what kind of area he went alone. I have not got to the vignettes yet, but lots of winter left. Most of the videos I have viewed and 3 several times. I have read some of the articles done by written media, but I am sure not all of them. I spend 10 hours a day reading and verifying or discrediting certain items. In the last six weeks I have spent more time with TTOTC the chasing my wife. Her being a Colombian Beauty, I finally had to translate the poem and ff basic story for her. She asked me what kind of crazy man would do such a thing? I told her ff asked himself the same question after he hid it. She is very excited about coming to the States next Summer, as she has never been outside of Colombia. She will get to meet my family and go on a real live treasure hunt. Along the way she will get to see the grandness of our great country. Even without finding it, it will be like a fairytale come true for her to see America. Will be returning to Colombia afterwards, because we are taking care of here aging parents, and her family is very important to her.

        • Best to enlighten yourself with your family first.
          Please bring me some coffee beans when you guys brew up a general viable solve without creative clutter.

        • Greg, what a great plan!
          Study and solve the poem this winter.
          Enjoy a great trip next year.

          Clearly Clueless

    • Greg;

      Just curious – you say, ” I do not believe ff is giving out anymore clues to the chase, he has repeatedly said so.” Can you please give me your sources for this statement? I have not read these repeated statements.

      Although Forrest occasionally mixes up the terms “clues” and”hints” – there are only nine clues – and they are in the poem, so of course Forrest would not be giving out any “clues”. A hint here and there – probably – If you know what to look for.

      True, hints are more vague, and would need to be tied to a particular clue – but why would this stop Forrest from dropping a hint or two now and again?

      Hope you can provide the sources – Thanks in advance – JDA

  45. Found this today during a search. They are mainly speaking of brown trout. Very intriguing

    5 tips for fishing The lower Madison at high water

    For high water fishing, we are talking about the section below Warm Springs

    • If the lower Madison is down stream, then that part is in Northern Montana, the most southern part of the Madison is in Wyoming. Do you know where the Madison starts?

        • Patriot, description of terms can be confusing. Down on a map normally is south, as where down stream is the away from the original source. Depending where a person is from, like me in Missouri most of the rivers run to south. Then there always seems to be exceptions to the general rules. The Gatlin and Gibbon flow south till they merge with the Madison that runs west for bit and then turns north, Where in Northern Montana where they merge with the Missouri system that runs south to merge with the Mississippi at St. Louis Mo. It is a large can of worms. That’s why topo maps can be a lot of help, because water almost always flow down hill. Good luck with your chase.

  46. I keep finding these little tidbits that make you go hmm

    A summer day at the Boiling River,where thermal waters mix with the Gardner River near Mammoth Hot Springs. Soaking is only permitted during designated hours and the area closes during periods of high water.

    the bright scales of 22 ounce gold peculiar to this locality have been washing down the Yellowstone in liberal, unmeasured quantities of late, showing that there must be a heavy deposit above

    The steam and blaze was constantly discharging from these subterranean channels in regular evolutions or exhaustions, like the boilers of our steamboats, and gave the same roaring, whistling sound

    Language is not adequate to convey an idea of the marvelous beauty of the scenery, which is beyond the power of description, and begets a wonderful fascination in the mind of the beholder who reverently gazes at the snow-crowned summits

  47. My blaze led me to a cabin in the woods. I think the cabin may be the hoB. At the time I didn’t think to look on the left (nigh) side of it. Should I go back and search near the cabin? Should I try to look under the cabin (Put in below)? Or as a last resort should I try to go inside?

    • MM;

      Personal opinion – IF it is hoB you have a LONG ways to go, or at least several clues to solve before you start an actual search fort Indulgence.

      From there (hoB) it’s no place for the meek (a place)
      The END is ever drawing nigh – implies distance
      There’ll be no paddle up your creek – a creek has to have SOME length, or it is a pond or lake etc.
      Just heavy loads and water high – two elements that take up space
      If you’ve been wise and found the blaze – an object ??? of some size
      Look quickly down, your quest to cease – look down from something
      MAYBE NOW you can start to search for Indulgence – Who knows? JDA

    • MM

      If you came across a dwelling of any kind in the woods, I assume you would be on private property. Snooping around does not automatically make you a guest… it makes ya target practice.
      Or worse.. ya could end up the sacrificial lamb that would save all humanity. Haven’t ya’ll ever seen ‘cabin in the woods’ Oh! wait.. um sure go ahead. We don’t need another apocalypse to worry about.

      I’d also would think about fenn’s comment; ‘the treasure is not associated with a structure.’ If the clues were created for the sole purpose of leading one to the chest, I would think none of the clues are associated with a structure, because all the clues ‘are’ associated with the chest .. it was the purpose of their birth.

  48. MM, ff said, the hide not related to any man made structure, including outhouses and cemeteries.

  49. I think one of the reasons why the chest has not been found during the past 8 years is that the home of Brown is not shown on any of the maps including Google map, Google Earth, the topo maps, national park maps and trail maps. If the home of Brown is associated with one of the mountains, creeks, lakes, or any geological features, or one of the ranger station, or has anything to do with trouts the chest might have been found already by one of 350,000 searchers.
    Therefore we have to think harder:
    1) To find who or what this “Brown” refers to.
    2) To find the correct meaning of “Home of Brown”.

    I think I have a pretty good idea who this Brown is and what the “Home of Brown” refers to, but in order for me to say it with 100% confidence I have to be on my BOTG and find the chest first, I guess.

    — MK

    • MK;

      I think that you are wrong about hoB not being on any kind of map – including Google Earth. I think it can be seen, the problem is, will it be recognized as hoB? – Probably not. It took me almost two years to recognize a particular land feature as the hoB. It then took a couple of months of research to determine why this particular land feature might be Forrest’s hoB. The hints are there, they just have to be understood – or so I hope I understand. JDA

      • Hi JDA,
        What I meant by “not shown on any maps” is that the word “Brown” from the home of Brown is not shown (or printed) anywhere explicitly on any maps. Yes, I think I know the approximate location of where the home of Brown is, but I can’t pinpoint the exact spot (of course in my solve). Only Fenn should know the exact spot, but what I’m thinking is that even Fenn may not know the exact spot. That’s my current thinking. But if you park below HOB, go down the creek, find the blaze, and able to retrieve
        the chest, would it matter whether we have to know the exact spot or not?
        — MK

  50. Parson Brown was a generic term used to describe the traveling preachers back in the day (as late as the 1930s).

    It’s plausible to imagine that a preacher’s home would be a church.
    Forrest Fenn’s church was in the mountains and river bottoms.

    Perhaps we look for a mountain range, peak or river that refers to a church (Cathedral range, Church Peak, Church Creek, etc).

    • @ q1werty2 good to see you on here! Another blogger was mentioning Wimpy burgers not to long ago and I was reminded of your thoughts on 5 Cent Wimpy’s! Hope you are doing well.

      • Took some time off from the Chase, but I’m back.

        I can’t believe anyone even remembered my “Go in Peace” / “Go Whimpy’s” association.

        BTW – Whimpy’s Knob is right around the corner from Cathedral Range. 🙂

  51. i think the home of Brown is the Byrd naturalist cabin located within the Draper Museum of Natural History in Cody Wyoming and heres why…

    if you read my comment on the where warm waters halt thread you know that i am on the hiway to Cody from the Buffalo Bill Reservoir, the canyon down.

    i always thought it strange that Forrest wrote to begin where warm waters halt and then take it in the canyon down. to me this meant that where warm waters halt is higher in elevation than the home of Brown and quite possibly one must pass by the home of Brown to get to where warm waters halt, and then go back down to the home of Brown. such is the case for my solution, because I am from florida and drove through Cody to get to the reservoir.
    I suppose if one were to start at Yellowstone Park by entering from the west entrance and then tromp around in the park for a while and decided that there is nowhere in the park that forrest would want to be buried and that pretty much everywhere you go someone could eventually stumble on to the chest which Forrest said would not happen. then that person, who entered from the west entrance would not pass by the home of Brown on their way to where warm waters halt. so the way i got it figured is exactly the west entrance scenario…searchers start at yellowstone park because Forrest was “in love with yellowstone” the special place near and dear to him. but the chest cant be in Yellowstone park for many reasons. so there must be a trick to the whole thing.
    maybe the chest mentioned in the poem isnt the bronze romanesque box, and maybe the “chest” mentioned in the poem is another chest hidden at a place that mirrors Yellowstone park. maybe.
    that place could be the Draper Museum.
    which houses what i believe to be the home of Brown.

    look at the axeman drawing in the Epilogue chapter of TTOTC.
    the axeman has cut down trees but where did they go? they were used to build a log cabin i think. and the bird in the moon gives a clue to what the log cabin is. birds build nests with small logs known as sticks. this is a birds home. or, the Byrd Cabin at the Draper. Brown is capitalized to denote proper name but not Brown, Byrd. and the reason the bird is in the moon is because that represents night. its always dark in a museum. light levels are kept low to preserve artifacts. the Byrd Naturalist Cabin is inside the museum at the 10,000 foot level in elevation. this is the start of the Draper, the “put in” at 10,000 feet, the alpine level. it descends down into the basement to the 4,500 foot level, meadow.
    hence Forrest comment…”below 10,200 and above 5,000″.
    also this is why the little girl from india cant get past the first two clues. she can find WWWH on the map. she can find the canyon down on the map. but not the HOB because it is indoors. i have seen a photo of the Byrd cabin here on Dal’s blog but i cant find it now.

    the bronze romanesque box of goodies is not hidden at the Draper museum.
    this i know.

    • Bob, you have an interesting method for solving the poem. We don’t know yet what the true answer will look like so who knows. One thing you said struck as a little odd.
      “pretty much everywhere you go someone could eventually stumble on to the chest”
      There is a vast amount of Yellowstone that is never seen by anyone. People stick to trails and the usual sites for the most part. I would say I have covered about 20 miles in off trail territory myself in Yellowstone. And I’m sure that nobody has been to many of the places I have in years. The box is small in comparison to the uncharted territory there. It can very easily be there and not be stumbled upon.

    • bob greene,

      And here we go again, F told one of the searchers, I believe it was Cynthia, after she presented her theory, that the home of Brown is not associated to a structure. This has been bought up many times in the past and yet people still want to associate clues to structures. No part of any clue is associated to a structure.

      Sorry, this blows your theory right out the window. I might suggest that you ask Cynthia, Is the hoB associated to a structure? Cynthia is very much a reliable source on this topic, you might ask the question directly on her site at: http://www.chasingfennstreasure.com/

      By the way the chest is the bronze box and it’s contents, they have never been separate and there is no other chest or box that mirrors the original. When the poem says “treasures bold”, “riches new and old”, “take the chest”, title to the gold”, are all one in the same, bronze box filled with gold, etc.

      Just Say’n

      • thanks Charlie but, how can you be 100% certain that the chest of the poem is the bronze box?

        in TTOTC Forrest wrote…so I wrote a poem containing nine clues if followed precisely will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure. but the poem says chest.

        i dont think the treasure and the bronze box and the chest are all are the same thing.
        you may assume the treasure and the bronze box are the same thing if you wish. i choose not to.

        • Bob, there are many comments from fenn saying ‘ treasure chest ‘ How can the two [ treasure and chest ] not be the same [ item, object ]?

          • Seeker- easy peasy. just look up the definitions of the two words, treasure and chest. . . and the two combined- “treasure chest”.
            all three have different definitions.

            yeah, its tough on the noggin i know.

      • I’m pretty sure he has said the treasure is not associated with any structure. I don’t believe he has said this about the HOB.

        • Mike;

          Please do some research. If I remember the story correctly, Cynthia was telling Forrest about a solve she had. She mentioned that her hoB was a cabin. Forrest interjected something to the effect – didn’t I tell you that the treasure is not associated with a structure – implying that hoB could not be a structure, and therefore by treasure, Forrest meant that none of the clues were associated with a structure.

          I do not have the link, but it should not be too hard to find – JDA

          • JDA, I wouldn’t assume that Forrest meant none of the clues are associated with a structure. In fact I don’t think it’s safe to assume anything about FF’s statements.

            If HoB is associated with the treasure then that means the statement is isolated to HoB only and not any other clues.

          • I do not understand, even when there is a statement from F and relayed by Cynthia that the hoB is not associated to a structure, folks ignore what has been presented. Such as Mike B. and Aaron saying in a round about way saying its an assumption that hoB is not associated to a structure and to assume anything about statements made by F.
            That is indicating anything that F says is not to be believed.

            Prove to me that what F says is not to be believed and show me where F has not told the truth. Nothing about F is merely an assumption. I think those that don’t understand and can’t find hoB or anything else in the poem and not doing the work of learning, its easy to say not true because they truly are tossing darts, guessing and are floundering.

            F more or less said the mountains is his chapel, and has said that he wanted folks to enjoy the mountains and get off of their duffs to enjoy them and of course find the tc. If one is truly in the mountains out in nature, your not going to see much of any structures. Being the tc is hidden somewhere in the RM tells us that its out in a natural setting as well as all the clues. You’re suppose to marry the poem to a good map and an understanding geography, truly is in a natural setting.

            Go for it, if the clues are associated to structures, or wildlife and fish, your going to need a hell of a lot of luck or I’ll say your going to have quite a bit of bad luck!

            Just Say’n

          • CM, I wrote this statement as clear as I could but once again you have misinterpreted what I said apparently. You said: “Aaron saying in a round about way saying its an assumption that hoB is not associated to a structure and to assume anything about statements made by F.”

            I said “If HoB is associated with the treasure then that means the statement is isolated to HoB only and not any other clues.”

            I’ll simply the statement for you. Cynthia was talking about HoB when FF said the treasure is not associated with a structure. He never said that clues are not associated with the treasure. If HoB is the site of the treasure then what does his statement have to do with the remainder of the clues?

          • Aaron,

            If some folks want to wait for the day when fenn ‘might’ say, no clues are associated with a structure… not unlike other comments that took years for clarification… well, it might be a long wait.
            However, and as CharlieM implied, if we don’t think fenn is telling us correctly in his comments.. why do we bother asking more question?
            It would seem that the clues are of fenn’s own creation. Clues ‘only’ to be applied with finding the trove, they have no other purpose. That alone relays the idea that they [ the clues references ] are permanently ‘associated only’ with the chest / trove / treasure.

            LOL however even when fenn does clarify a previous comment or states something as; WWH is not a dam dam… there are folks who still want to think fenn is only telling 85% of the truth. Or when fenn stated; he was not ready to say the chest is not in water, only to clarify later, the chest in not underwater.. some didn’t want this to be true because their solve would be all wet.
            I could even give the example that some still want to hold on to the idea the first stanza holds a clue, even when loco found a 2013 comment that BIWWWH is the first clue. Yet, from what I can see, this is the only comment ever truly stating as such directly from fenn… even while many questions, interviews etc. had brought that topic up with fenn well after 2013.

            We [ most bloggers ] utilize the idea of “don’t mess with my poem”.. yet this was something only stated to Dal. Another comment stated about hoB was presented to or about Cythia’s idea her hoB involved a structure and fenn’s comment was in reference to her hoB… { paraphrasing } remember I said the treasure is not associate with a structure.
            IF.. that statement is correct, hoB is associated by being a clue.. fenn didn’t mention HOB itself, he repeated the idea of a structure not being involved with the treasure.. which all the clue’s are involved, because fenn created those clues for only one purpose… they are ‘associated’ in finding the chest.
            Each of us can believe what we want, but imo, logic doesn’t say a structure is involved with the poem’s clues references.

          • I personally do not believe that any clues are associated with a structure. We do not know that for sure based on his comments about the treasure and HoB. If you want to say that by treasure he meant that none of the clues are associated with it that’s fine. Like JDA though, you are assuming what he means. Sure, I agree that he likely means that. But he is still being honest if one of the clues are associated with the treasure. Heck for all we know he could have been throwing Cynthia, and as result, others a bone in that he brought up the treasure when she brought up HoB. That is all I have to say about that.

          • Seeker. Hello ,from the land of the “true north strong and free” . How would you describe the relationship of associated with a structure ,with “home” , in your country’s (USA) national anthem line “home of the brave”?

            Is this line ,”home of the brave” , not associated with a structure? Or is it?

          • Tesla,
            Home is related to habitation / the land. Our home in the USA is where we occupy… the country.
            I’ll take it a step further and us our [ the usa ] symbol of the bald eagle being the same has Canada’s brown beaver. The idea is that many WWH extend into Canada as well and some below SF… only we may need to have figured out that hoB is the habitation or symbol of Canada to be below of, and still within a RM’s. This is one reason I think the Continental divided could be represented in the poem as NPFTM.. it’s the “backbone” of the RM’s and might be reference by the idea of “Brave” and in the wood.

            O’er *the land* of the free and *the home* of the brave.. [ in answer to your question, no structure involved. it is where we live, the habitat/domain we call home ]

            You have to understand that I believe many words in the poem are combined to represent the same thing.
            NPFTM, brave, creek, in the wood, hoB and others, all relate to different things.. and.. one single thing at the same time… the CD. While it all [the poem ] revolves around WWWH.

          • Seeker. Yes, home is in reference to the land, I agree. Geophysical land that is “home of the Brave”. Same as within context of the poems, HOB.

            One of your ideas for HOB is brown is as in Canada’s animal symbol of the Beaver? Just so you know, not all beavers are brown. Brown is but one of many colours of them. No different as other colours of trout.

            I did entertain the idea of the continental divide trail at Montana and Watertown National Park. But not because of below Canada’s beaver symbol meaning. Waterton Park was the first international peace Park . Initiated by Kootenei Brown, whom was the first Park ranger of Waterton . He had numberous cabins there.He’s buried in Canada at Pincher Creek , which is close by. He was taken captive by Cheif Sitting Bull and escaped Oil seeps from the ground and they oiled wagons wheels from it.

            Lots of clues can be looked upon for there but I abandoned this area . I am not sure if there is a summer road to it from the USA, but I don’t think so. Otherwise , it’s a couple days hike or you Americans have to drive across the border at Coutts. There is an American Ranger Border station on your side of Upper Waterton. Accesable by hike or 20 minute boat ride from Canada’s side. The CD trail is right in between .

          • Is a “tree” a structure? Is “nature” a structure? Is the “landscape” a structure? Is the ‘forest” a structure? All things associated with the chest.
            I think the context of hat f said is being strewed all over the place.
            From f’s comment, there’s no structure, in the sense we define structure normally, around the chest. Or, no buildings and such. Bridges, dams, etc…
            Now if wwwh is say 5 miles away, even though it is associated in finding the chest, there is nothing saying that it can’t be a structure. If you go down that road, and say that wwwh is associated, and f said associated, then anything can be defined as a structure, and would then lead to f telling an untruth. If you were to nit-pick apart what he is saying.
            HoB is close to the chest, MAYBE, so in retrospect, it may not be a structure. Then again, hoB may not be a clue, may just be landscape, and does not really fit the comment. Since technically, everything is a structure, and thus, associated with the chest.
            His comment should be taken as saying there is no structure close to the chest. And that’s it. Meaning, building, man made, whatever. It should not make a searcher think that every clue cannot be a structure, or at least the first couple. Because if you nit-pick “associated”, then prove to me that nature, trees, grass , landscapes, etc… are not “structures”.

          • Telsa,

            You found my; ‘You have to understand that I believe many words in the poem are combined to represent the same thing…’
            Yep, Brown’s resting place, and yet still, a representations of a geographical location at the same time… the border.
            All, a tie-in to a specific location.
            The one thing you didn’t mention is, a certain park.. which involved a treaty between the two countries…. What if there are no legal questions?

            Might I ask where ‘your home is’ in correlation to Waterton Lake?

          • so many folks sayin ‘Forrest said’

            when IN FACT

            it was

            ‘Cynthia said’.

            and Forrest has never confirmed nor denied what Cynthia sez he said…

            Just keep the fact straight.

          • Seeker. The treaty at what Park? It’s Waterton Lakes Park that is part of the Glacier National Park that is in Canada and the USA.

            My HOB there was the Upper Waterton Lake. Which is below Kootenei Browns resting place (in Canada). So, it’s the USA side of the CD.

            Interesting thing: near the middle, but I believe it’s on the Canadian side , is a land protrusion midway across the lake that looks like a dragon when you see it. The land protrusion connected to the mainland body , looks like a dragon- unmistakeably.

            Blaze? Dragon (bracelets reference)
            Marvel gaze? At Dragon
            Oil seepage above ground in places (tarry scant)
            Tarry scant? Close by , on the Canada side, was one the first oil wells in Canada-Riches new and old oil now and then (weak though in my opinion)
            Goat haunt trail- NPFTM
            HOB- Kootenei Brown
            Canyon? I dunno.
            Heavy loads water high- Water(ton) Upper and lower Waterton. Could be other things too.
            There are “no paddle creeks” that drain into the lake.
            NFBTFTW – getting there is not easy for Americans but easy for me. I live close by .

            Could be numerous things there relative to this poem. I actually have never been there. It’s a worthy place to look into , but I can’t make it work there without a real strain to force fit it there. It would be nice if I could make it work better there. It’s a lot closer for me.

            Must be aware of Grizzlies and black bears there. More likely than not to encounter one- even on trails.

            You may be thinking the “not in Canada” is a hint directed towards this shared Park/Lake along the CD?

          • Oh yes, it was the first International Peace Park. “Go in Peace”. I lost my post above and had to retype the post just before. I thought I had aleardy said the First International Peace Park . It was in that post originally.

            I don’t think Waterton Lakes Park is a good consideration. But ya never know.

          • I have hit a small barrier for the area and a couple of unknowns I need to look into, but I like the idea because it relates to clues to be concentrated in a small location [even when some clues are huge in size] that involves the big picture concept.
            Kinda the idea of, your destination is small but its location is huge, line of thinking. As possibly two folds, Huge to the big picture affect and huge as importance.

          • Seeker. It’s been a while since I looked at Waterton. I am a little bit surprised you are thinking about there.

            Since you are so helpful here, there are some thoughts I remember:

            1) To get there, even to the US side,you have to cross the boarder by road.
            2) Risky taking the Chest across,
            3) You need a passport. No criminal record. No problem for most poeple lol.
            4) You can hike from USA, but it takes 2-3 days from GNP to get there. So , not so likely FF would have for all the obvious reasons.

            Has FF ever said has been to Canada? Perhaps that’s a really good Question for him on MW .

            The only plausibility this poem and Waterton can have a relationship with the clues that I can see;Is there are clues there as a start and goes from there S,SW,SE.

            Anyways, Just my opinion.

          • Alsetenash & Seeker, you are both talking about a lot of ideas that are also familiar to me from looking at the GNP/Waterton Lakes area. When I am looking at the GNP area in general, if I find a place that seems to me to fit the poem, I almost immediately discount it because it is either 1.) below 5,000′ in elevation, or 2.) not easily accessible to vehicular travel. Over and over, I seem to run into one or both of these problems in the GNP area. It’s very frustrating, but I do find myself periodically looking over this area to see if there’s something I missed before.

  52. So if hoB is not associated with any sort of structure, where does that leave us? I’ve been puzzling over this question myself for a good while. My first instinct is to look for geographic features on maps with names that imply a “home” (for example “Housetop Mountain” in the Tetons), but then I recall the question put to Forrest where he answered that the study of the names of places is not very important in order to solve the poem (I forget what the exact term was, but it was one that Forrest said he had to look up in a dictionary), so that makes me wonder if moving in this direction is barking up the wrong tree.

    The people who have been interpreting the hoB as referring to brown trout might be at an advantage, as a waterway containing brown trout would be fairly easy to identify on a map by someone familiar with fishing (which I am very much not). I’ve always been skeptical of the brown trout idea, but I have considered it. I think a lot of people gravitated towards brown trout simply because brown trout is the 3rd definition down the list when one looks at the Merriam-Webster definition of “brown”.

    The only other idea I have is maybe going back to Goofy’s idea that the hoB cannot be indentified on a map and must be found using BOTG… maybe a rock formation that looks like a house or cabin that one can only see while hiking in the canyon down? If that’s the case, then I really struggle with identifying a location to start looking using only WWWH and the canyon down as clues to use while looking at a map.

    Anyways, that’s where I find myself repeatedly running into a wall when thinking about hoB. Anyone have any other perspectives general enough to share?

    • Hi Blex, toponymy was the word in question.

      I am not a huge fan of the brown trout theory but it won’t stop me from using it if it seems to work with a solve.

      I also believe it is likely that HoB can only be found with BOTG. This would make it harder, and get more people out in the rockies, or as Seeker would say, sweaty bodies stomping around. Both of these were objectives of Fenn’s.

      Another thought I have had is that there is something identifiable by ‘Brown’ that is sort of confined to a certain area. This area could then easily be recognized at Brown’s home.

    • Blex, the “Put in below the home of Brown” is much like “Take it in the Canyon Down” and is expressed in the same manner IMO, however “Not far but too far to walk is in-between these two and we start at WWWH then all 3 seem to be geographical in nature, except “too far” line, what that insinuates in my mind is a border or frame of some type, for example if WWWH were the 32 degree parallel , latitude, and the Colorado border, another 5 degrees in latitude north and 5 lines further in the poem, it is the next border, ie the home of Brown, as in Molly Brown the most famous resident who’s home was there also color brown (red and yellow make brown) look at NM Flag. it’s yellow, and red consider Colorado also means red, we have framed the first stanza and the second stanza like a drawing with borders and color, what is the next line and stanza; NPFTM and TEIEDN, take notice of the semicolon (;) and it’s placement in order of imaginary borders being created both to explain a change and continuity of imaginary thought. What if the end of his rainbow was a border where you could find the exact co-ordinates of Lat. and Long?

      All one would need is the blaze that marks the spot above this X on the map.

      Now much is left to the imagination and ff has a lot of it both expressed in his comments, and some expressed but not recognized, call it unused, as yet, which we have to somehow recognize in those myriads of Adhan which we call out by as a muezzin from the mosque of this endless series of imagings, countless in number and possibility….fools we are and Plato has it right https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_fools

      TT

      • Thank you for teaching us that “red and yellow make brown”. I suggest
        that you don’t open an art gallery.

        • Tall Andrew, does the color brown exist in the rainbow?
          White and Black are absolute, do they exist in Forrest’s rainbow?

          What is black and white and read all over? Comments that just look wrong.
          TT

  53. Regarding the “structure” conundrum, he clarified what he meant by “not associated with any structure”:

    Mr. Fenn, when you said not associated with any structure did that mean all 9 clues or just where the chest sits? Thanks, d
    Yes d, it means the treasure is not hidden in or about a structure. Google “structure” for more information.f

    He was directly asked here if his quote applies to the other clues and he says exactly what the quote means. It seems obvious to me that he is saying just the physical treasure chest itself is not hidden in a structure.

    • Michael Frans,

      Seems to me that you are completely blowing off what F said to Cynthia, that hoB is not associated to a structure. As with what Seeker said above, none of the clues are associated to a structure, I fully agree.

      Heck anyone can pick apart what F says or indicates, your thought is full of semantics, an assumptions and not listening fully to what F says.

      Listen and you shall receive!

      • Oh ok CharlieM. So, is your interpretation of HOB in the poem actually the chest? If I analyze the two admonishements together as supporting each other, rather than as contrarians , than HOB could be the bronze, without any patina, box? Brown . No? IMO.

        • Alsetenash,

          No my interpretation of hoB is a natural place. I don’t consider Brown a color, nor connected to a bronze box. That’s just me.

      • I’m not sure what to think about what Forrest allegedly said to Cynthia. On one hand, I think she seems like an honest straight-shooter. On the other hand, Forrest has said he would never give a searcher an unfair advantage. I prefer to pay more attention to “official” quotes rather than second hand accounts.

        When Fenn answered “it means the treasure is not hidden in or about a structure,” I take him at his word. He is answering the question directly. He was given two options about what “not associated with any structure” meant.
        Option 1) it means all 9 clues
        Option 2) it means just where the chest sits

        He clearly answered with option 2.

        • How would ‘repeating’ the same message, even to a single searcher, be an unfair advantage?
          He never said directly hoB, or any clue is or is not… it was indicated what he had said long ago, ‘…not associated with…’ If we’re being honest with ourselves, the only thing that is associated to the treasure/ treasure chest/ the hunt/ the search for/ the chase, is the clues. It is the only reason they were “created.”
          Without the trove the poem’s clues are nothing, without the poem’s clues you can find the trove.

          But lets do a rear-view mirror check,
          Associated means; linked to… or linked to the treasure, line of thinking.
          WWH is not a dam, nor is a beaver hut because its a dam… both are structures.
          Structure is an arrangement of part.
          Is the poem’s clues references not an arrangement / creation / arranged in a specific manner of parts -?- parts needed to be done in a specific order?

          When fenn commented on Cynthia’s idea of hoB… he simply repeated what he has stated/reminded to all before… not associated… with the treasure.

          You said; ~ ‘When Fenn answered “it means the treasure is not hidden in or about a structure,” I take him at his word.’
          { full Q&A Mr. Fenn, when you said not associated with any structure did that mean all 9 clues or just where the chest sits?
          Thanks, d
          Yes d, it means the treasure is not hidden in or about a structure. Google “structure” for more information.f}
          Structure; the arrangement of and **relations between the parts** or elements of something complex.
          Construct or **arrange according to a plan**; give **a pattern or organization to.**

          Geography doesn’t work that way… which we have been told might help, in understanding it.
          Again, we can take a single ATF and make it out the way we hope it might be… but when we have as many ATF’s as we do… things become a bit more clearer, than a hope or want a single comment to be.

          I’ll hang my hat on option 1… a place or it’s reference to the poem, that can still have the same affect for another searcher in the year 3009.

  54. Man ya’ll give it a rest lol. Ive seen this many times. Let the man have his solve. You got yours hes got his. Neither of you are right because you dont have the TC.

    • The Patriot,

      We’re just BSing about probabilities and possibilities, Patriot.
      The site was created to chat about it all… that’s all we’re doing. And doing it with folks from all over the world we might never have had any other change to chat with about the same interest, the chase and the challenge.
      Grant ya, it’s been talked about before, as many topics have as well, but nothing wrong with revisiting them.
      What are your thoughts?…

  55. “I said on the Today show that the treasure is not associated with any structure. Some people say I have a desire to mislead. That is not true. There are no notes to be found or safety deposit boxes to be searched. The clues can lead you to the treasure, and it will be there waiting when you arrive.”f IMO wwwh, canyon down, hoB, NPFTM, or any clue *is* associated to the treasure, therefore part of the treasure. Cynthia’s post about what F indicated to her hoB, can’t be associated to a structure.

    That in its self is a strong indication that no clue can be associated to structures. Just because F didn’t say anything about other clues not associated to structures, doesn’t mean they can. What, F has to be specific? Can one read between the lines? If not that’s okay, it just how I see it.

    Out in the mountains!

    Just Say’n

    • Fenn is very careful in what he says so that he is honest while not giving away to much at the same time. It’s up to you if you want to “read between the lines” .

    • On the Today Show, wasn’t he responding to the fact that people were digging up outhouses, etc. as they thought that was the final location of the treasure, not just one of the clues? I think that’s why he said “the treasure” is not associated with any structure… IMO he was talking about the physical treasure chest.

      • Michael – But wern’t people digging up or around outhouses because of the “Brown” and where it resides? I seem to remember that association – Yes I know, that whole idea stinks – 🙂 – JDA

      • It’s neither here nor there about digging up outhouses, its about what F said. Yep, its about the tc, also the clues.

        • I think the key word here is “Treasure”
          Whose “Treasure” ? Maybe Forrests “Treasure” is not associated with a structure .
          Maybe no ones “Treasure” is associated with a structure?

          • Spallies,

            You bring up a good possibility that “..alone in there and with my treasures bold..” could mean the clues themselves. { at least some of them }
            It might be why “treasureS” is plural and why fenn chosen to use chest and trove later in the poem. Basically; he went to be with his “treasures”… Bold meaning; striking, vivid appearance etc… rather than… risky or brave etc.

            This in-turn could give credence to “hint of riches new and old” to mean the landscape or geography of the land, and why a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help.

          • I always imagined “Hint of riches new and old”? to mean Forrests historic chase and his gold?

    • And remember at one point Forrest felt the treasure could be found soon! Someone was getting close and he knew it.

  56. It takes a very sharp blade to split hairs….what? I hear an echo….Look At The Big Picture….Look At The Big Picture….Look At The Big Picture.

  57. Comical.

    One searcher claims F told her something in a bookstore and so many assume he must have said it. Even though he’s never confirmed it.

    If every youtube fenn treasure host were to say F told them something, does that become truth?

    • Do you remember the TTOTC chapter “LOOKING FOR LEWIS AND CLARK”
      in which FF talked about his handkerchief and also about Lightning’s funny dance step? I’m not going to do any funny dance step about capitalization, and
      some searchers not clear on this may want to keep a handkerchief handy. By
      the way, where’s your coffee cup?

    • It’s interesting that you naturally want to substitute “house” for “home”.

      How many times has Forrest spoken about his home in Temple? The house is long gone and never will return. It burned down a long time ago. Home is the place, not the structure.

      One day our parents will be dead and our childhood houses will be burned down or owned by strangers. Home is just the place, not the house.

      Thanks for that exercise.

      • Muset, you are on my same wavelength and your explanation hits right on the head . I used house as an example because I have heard people mention “Browns house” in relation to the chase . In my opinion, there is no house or any structure for that matter.

      • Mostly right Muset. My family moved a lot, places changed, but home was always where my family was. For pack animals home might be… a pack, or a school (of fish), a gaggle (of geese), a pride (of lions), etc. I wonder about that osprey in the tree as FF wrote a note to Peggy. I think I read somewhere that osprey’s mate for life…. I forgot where, so check that.

  58. Here’s a major problem I see with “Put in below the home of Brown.”
    How far below the HOB do we put in?
    10 feet?
    20′?
    100′?
    1000 feet?
    1 mile?
    This goes back to what I have mentioned moons ago.
    It may not matter much where you put in.
    It definitely matters more where you draw out.

    • Possible answer to your question.

      IF . . .

      Wwwh correct provides Latitude
      HoB correct provides Longitude

      Intersection is the Put In location, with movement from wwwh to east and movement from HoB to south.

      Simple, yet precise.

      If one can correctly ID both spots, then everything else provided would be verifications that your analysis was correct.

      Concept articulated may be incorrect and it is offered as food for thought only.

      Personally believe that the location must have a coordinate provided somehow, and this method is the simplest method I can conceive.

      Regards

    • I know I said it before but I think there are two possibilities. One is lake Ennis(there is a famous Frank Loyd Wright house named the Ennis-Brown House that is also mentioned in a 2009 Time magazine article). Or there the famous landscape artist (Grafton Tyler Brown) who lived in Helena, MT and Helena also happens to mean “light, torch, bright” in Greek (i.e. blaze). I just haven’t been able to tie it to any other clues.

  59. HoB has been my focus, which would be confirmed by WWWH (in my current belief, CD). I’ve had a harder time with Brown being a person, though ff does say “a comprehensive understanding of geography” would help.

    “Geography is the study of places and the relationships between PEOPLE and their environments. Geographers explore both the physical properties of Earth’s surface and the human societies spread across it.”

    So maybe relating to a person isn’t far fetched.

    Also, I believe the reason people walk past the secreted spot, and the reason ‘if I told you where HoB was, you could walk right to it, is one that Dal has touched upon, in that you can see the solve from ‘there’. Like a math equation, you are solving for where. Some clues in the poem tell you to take actions/move. Others don’t.

    I don’t believe it’s a linear solve.

  60. I feel like I can’t be the first person who has seen this, but has anyone noticed the “home” of Brown on Google Earth located just south of Big Arm, MT? It’s written right there in the dry bed of Loon Lake, along with some other words. I don’t think that’s the one we’re looking for, but interesting still.

  61. I think the house of Brown is not as such a house, as it was written earlier, most likely this place with that name does not include: fish, bears, any animals, as well as a breed, because Brown is capitalized. I found three Brown houses in one place, and how many have you got?
    I think this is one of the main clues in the solution.

    • I got none but I had many more than 3 way back.
      I don’t think Brown has anything to do with a house but does with a home.
      If it was a house and is gone now, then how would we know where to put in but a guess on the many houses not there anymore.
      I don’t like the idea of a structure that won’t last long being hoB.
      I do agree that it is a clue but not a main one as I see they are all equally important especially the last clue which I think is the blaze and of course we have to find WWWH.

      • Possibility:

        Home = Homing device

        Word points the way to the chest from the location described by the entire phrase, “home of Brown.”

        Breaking down, “Home” into “Ho M E” creates possibilities.

        Ho = alert
        M = letter of special significance that could be used in numerous ways
        E of Brown = East of Brown

        Brown being capitalized leads me to infer that Brown refers to a proper noun (name, place, etc). Home = homing device implies that Brown has a discreet GPS location of point size. This eliminates many possibilities as to what Brown to use. Rivers, streams, mountains, canyons, even houses do not have singular GPS locations. Thus, I think the Brown needed is much smaller.

        Alternatively:

        Per Wiktionary, “Hom” means “one, people, someone (an unspecified individual: indefinite personal pronoun).”

        If intended, remainder: E of Brown comes up again.

        Nothing firm here, just food for thought only. Use it or lose it as you see fit.

        Regards to all.

    • Been there done that.
      I was trying to figure out where he stayed in YNP when he traveled to YNP to paint and just guessed that maybe he stayed at Madison Junction, the old museum. I decided to omit all people in the poem except for the person who wrote it. I found way too many rabbit holes but you may find something different that may help you. Good luck.

  62. “Put in below the home of Brown”…..

    Maybe we are looking for the wrong “Brown”. How about looking for the ..”put in below the home of Donahue” ? Wouldn’t that qualify as a home of Brown?

    I know…I’ll have the Deputy run the name Donahue and see if any addresses are in the search areas or near a canyon. Now has anyone seen my Deputy?

    1F

    • Billy, Billy, Billy. You seem bored. If you want to talk with someone who’s on the same page, I give management the ok to share my email with you. You make a naturally nervous person even more so. Out of curiosity, how long did it take you to figure that one out? I think it took me a month before I could accept it. I’ve seen you mention later clues, but wasn’t sure if you jumped on late or had the earlier ones nailed down as well. All IMO of course. And if you’re snowshoeing up there already, I’m scared you are going to beat me (you’ve been nipping at my heels a while now; again imo). If you wanted to wait until August to go back I would be fine w/ that . I don’t post here b/c I was born without a filter but have been following Dal’s blog for a long time now. Well, for better or worse, the invitation is out there. And Go Big Red.

      • Big Red-

        I emailed the warden. I have asked for clemency. It’s a big word, and so I don’t know if ………better not say that. You’re
        perceptive, I have found myself at wits end.

        I also know how I would feel to have the solution, and to come in second place. I have previously contemplated just how others might feel if my posse was to get there first.

        Secretly, I decided if we were fortunate to take first place; I would share the prize with those that could also explain the clues and identify the location of the strong box. I have a good job that allows me the ability to put more botg than most, which isn’t quite fair to the unemployed red neck from Texas with 10 kids.

        Check your email box, let’s compare notes to see if we agree on any common ground. I would like to see what your response is for the blaze, because I still can’t see evidence that anyone else has found it.

        By the way…it’s not in Nebraska, IMO

        Warden, unlock my cell please.
        1F

      • Nervous Ned;

        The warden has refused to unlock my cell. He said YOU must email him and ask to send your email address to me? Have you ever had to appear before a judge? The Deputy was arrested in Connecticut for having a taser in her purse. Can you spell felony? Had to appear before the judge wearing cuffs and shackles.

        I’ve been to court and had to appear before a judge….I think like about eleven times. My lawyer once told me, that of all the cases he has tried, one of the most memorable was when he had to defend me cause my buffalo were breaking out. I wanted to plead innocent by reason of insanity….but he wouldn’t let me.

        email the warden…let’s compare notes..

        Best regards;

        Billy

    • That is off color and off the reservation.
      This time we throw away the key.
      Ha Ha Ha

  63. If you can’t find a place in the poem, perhaps f was imagining things as they were … long before he was born … maybe.

    • “The clues did not exist when I was a kid but *most of the places* the clues refer to did.” ff

      Usually taken to mean that one or more of the places didn’t yet exist when he were a lad (Quake Lake, f’r’ex).

      But the statement could just possibly be read to mean that one or more of the places NO LONGER existed when he was a kid.

      We’ve seen historic time used before, and a few have even suggested geologic time. I file these under the general heading “Begin it WHEN warm waters halt.”

      It’s difficult enough in three dimensions; add a fourth dimension of a couple hundred or thousand years (historic), or a hundred million + (geologic) . . . and we’ve got a hole made by a rabbit the size of the moon.

      The Inland Sea, for example, covered *more* than the entire search area at its greatest extent, so its shores would have been just about everywhere as it changed size and shape.

      Jake

  64. It wouldn’t really surprise me one bit if the finder never really figured out the meaning of HoB.

    • Roady—
      That would certainly surprize me….then again maybe I’m nutz.

      By the way….I miss Nutz. What happened to him? I’m relying on him to be my Judas goat and keep the search area free of searchers..

      Com’on lutz give us something to chew on…

      1F

      • You mean LugNutz? Doin’ time is he? Last I heard he was zeroing in on the treasure chest … in New Mexico … Taos or thereabouts, I think.

      • Sir Edward Coke … not to be confused with Diet Coke … breakfast, snack, lunch, snack and dinner drink of software engineers. Good to see you back in the saddle LN. Thought maybe you dropped out in frustration. You didn’t find it yet did you?

      • Mr.Lutz-
        Am I then to presume you’re a bachelor ?…

        I myself am only the ruler over our dogs…

        1F

        • I hear ya Sherif. I have a dog too, but I’m still the low man on the totem pole. Go figure.

  65. “Put in below the home of Brown.”

    Put in – enter a place

    What if this line is telling us the “put in” place is below hoB in elevation only?
    Then possibly hoB is not even near the “put in” spot. Maybe hoB (high up) is passed on the trail going down the canyon and you are looking for just the “put in” spot, not one that has hoB right above it.

    Could that be?

    Food for thought,
    Bur

    • Hi Bur, (the home of Brown) is so ambiguous, that it could be just as you say. However, the poem being straight forward, it’s more likely that it’s just as the poem suggests.

    • I’m thinking there is only one logical place to “put in” once hoB is found. And no place for the meek from there should confirm it.

      • Arron,

        Yes, one would think that, but there has to be other places beyond the correct put in, that’s why searchers went by all the other clues after solving two. Of course that’s not the correct verbiage. So to me if you stay on the main trail there are a few “put in” places on that trail that one might think is the right one, and it seems a few searchers did.

        Just my thoughts.
        Good luck,
        Bur

        • Very good point Bur. I really wonder if the correct location has more than one thing that could be considered HoB, and the close searchers headed to the wrong, and maybe more obvious choice. It would be a way to a way to make it harder to purposefully put in clues that gives searchers more than one option.

      • Aaron,
        I think you are right here: the hoB is a key. My advice: it’s useless to have BOTG before your found hoB. Forrest said that if you know what is the hoB you can easy find TC.
        This summer I will have BOTG because I again found the hoB (third one). Funny, but each time new hoB looks more real than previous one 🙂
        So, good luck with search of your hoB!

        • Andy S.: “Forrest said that if you know what is the hoB you can easy find TC.”

          I don’t think Fenn ever said that Andy.

          • Jake,
            of course, my statement wasn’t exact citation. Forrest answered a question about Brown in one interview:
            LONDON:” But you didn’t answer my question, who is Brown?”
            FENN: “Well, that’s for you to find. If I told you that, you’d go right to the chest.”
            So, if I understood his answer correctly after cracking this “codename” and knowing what (or who) is Brown you can easy find the chest.
            I’m solving the poem just around 3 years and can say now that it’s enough easy to “solve first 2-3 clues” and find some start point. But then you have a huge obstacle – finding the hoB. Forrest did very good job when coded this clue. My two decoding attempts were very weak but now I have perfect hoB decoding to exact location. This summer I’ll do next BOTG and find out true or false hoB I have.

          • “codename”
            “coded”
            “decoded”
            “decoding”
            Good luck with that. I don’t think there are any codes involved. Codes can be cracked easily, especially here with all the decoders that have cracked many.

            See, the thing about a code is that it is “absolute” and has “confirmation” built in that is static. Sure some codes can be “dynamic” but if Fenn incorporated that in his poem, he would have needed another program that could easily be broken by another program or “code breaker”.

            If I didn’t explain this clear enough, I’m sure there are some here that can.

        • Andy S.

          Please do NOT put things in quotes that Forrest did not say.

          Here IS what Forrest said on Youtube:
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipvIGaVt7C8

          Reporter: In the poem, which you say has nine clues, there are references to water, there’s references to Brown’s house; who is Brown?
          Forrest: There is reference to wood.
          Reporter: But you didn’t answer my question, Who is Brown?
          Forrest: Well, that is for you to find out; If I told you that, you’d go right to the chest. (10:41) 4/21/13 World Report.

          Please be more careful – Thanks. It doesn’t take much effort to find the quote that you are looking for – JDA

          • I put what Andy said in quotes not Andy.
            Either way, nothing seems to be easy about this Chase.

          • I’d add that you should listen to the actual exchange, Andy S, not just read it.

            In real time it sounds more like friendly banter than a significant clue.

            He used the same phrasing for the same semi-comical effect in another interview (29 May 2015) –

            Fenn – . . . I made two trips to hide it. I took the gold in one time, and then I took the treasure chest in the second time.

            Richard Eeds – What kind of shoes . . . what kind of footprints did you leave? What kind of boots.

            Fenn – Well if I told you that, you’d go out and find it!

            Jake

          • JDA,
            next time I’ll be more careful with citations of Forrest statements:-)
            Thanks for corrections.
            J A thanks for this new for me citation:
            Richard Eeds – What kind of shoes . . . what kind of footprints did you leave? What kind of boots.
            Fenn – Well if I told you that, you’d go out and find it!”
            I think that it was very interesting question about boots and Forrest as usually by not answering it gave us some small hint.

          • Not trying to pick on ya’ Andy. We just have to be careful. I was wrong, Jake put the quotes around your statement, not you – Sorry – JDA

          • *** *** *** ***
            Andy S wrote – “I think that it was very interesting question about boots and Forrest as usually by not answering it gave us some small hint.”
            *** *** *** ***

            Entertainment.

            I honestly think folks slow themselves down to a crawl trying to extract a hint from every turn of phrase or bit of banter in the live recordings. (The written bits too, but the live stuff especially is by definition much less . . . premeditated.)

            No one’s so self-obsessed as to be able to weave the kinds of elaborate plot webs ff’s attributed to.

            Okay, JRR Tolkien and George RR Martin, but this ain’t that.

            In any measurable body of text, it’s always much easier for a reader to extract significant bits than it ever is for a writer to put them in there intentionally.

            The greater the extraction effort, the higher the ratio of dross to ore.

            The most efficient selection will get to “the most direct route” better than the biggest collection will.

            On the flip side, there are many who enjoy the ‘never-ending’ quality of the quest, where big collections are more valued – and that’s a perfectly valid way to participate too. That’s entertainment.

            Jake

        • Andy, Don’t worry.
          Even Dal has sad (not exaxt quote)
          That Forrest has said many things. Privately to people in person and emails and conversations etc. He chastised some of these people who are qoute purists.
          You where very close and I think we get the gist of what forrest is saying here.
          Who can judge what another’s conversation is with forrest?
          If someone was making a bazzar statement out of the ordinary like:
          Forrest said ” he is calling off the chase,” now of course we should question and debate that!
          Some people are a bit picky.
          You wana know what forrest said to me? Haha I’m not telling……lol
          Go in Peace

          • Hi Lou,

            I see the solving of Forrest poem as a solving of giant puzzle where puzzle’s peaces are all Forrest hints, clues, quotes, interviews, jokes etc. I have them now in more 450 pages word document and continue to add new. Even unanswered questions like mentioned above “What kind of boots” become additional peaces of this puzzle. I do BOTG trip only if I have the puzzle solved i.e. my final destination is some very small spot around 100X100 feet. As I said I did it twice and it looks like both times the puzzle was solved incorrectly. Well, big thanks to Forrest for giving us such difficult challenge 🙂 Each BOTG trip we visit amazing places where are no human trails, found new blazes, collect perfect photos and videos.
            BTW, I never even try to contact with Forrest and ask him any questions. I think that he already gave us enough peaces to solve this puzzle. However, the recent hints i.e. “Special Doodled TTOTC with NOTES from Forrest” that Cynthia got from Forrest are very interesting and I agreed with Cynthia when she said: “to my amazement, he selected several that are part of my solve. No doubt other readers will feel the same way!”
            So, this summer BOTG will be real fun!

        • I don’t know Andy. If that were the case then it would mean that searchers could find the location of the chest before leaving their home. How would that work toward FF’s goal of getting people in the outdoors? Also, there have been way more people searching from the computer than BOTG obviously, and it still has not been found.

          • Aaron,
            I think that Forrest idea was perfect – 4 states Rockies area is huge and when you solved poem you have real motivation to visit this spot. My main search states are Montana and Wyoming but one solve was in Colorado and we went there and had very interesting out of trail trip. My kids now wait for each new BOTG and not because of possibility to found TC. They started to like wilderness and adventures. At the same time they understand that trips can be dangerous and learn how to be prepared. I think it was Forrest real goal.

    • I have not ruled out the idea that the “put in” location could be as simple as the spot where one would park their vehicle, which would likely be an obvious location; maybe a parking lot or a pull-off on the side of a road.

      • Blex,

        I believe that the poem takes you on a hike from the beginning of it. If you traveling in a car through some of the poems clues your concentration is on the road and next clues solve and not on the beauty that surrounds Fenn’s journey, that he is taking you on.

        But who’s to say I am right.

        Good luck,
        But

        • Blex,
          By the way I did use a vehicle in one of my search areas, so I can see how one might consider those thoughts.

          Ever considered a bike, Forrest did, and was going to put in the water high I think.- His answer to a question.

          Bur

          • Bur – Yes. I agree. I have imagined Forrest riding his bike from one of his favorite fishing holes to the next; ie. one just canyon down from Madison Junction to the really, really deep hole where Bob Jacklin caught that Monster 10lb Brown trout. He could have planned originally to throw his bike in that hole, and no one would probably find it. Leave no trace….

          • Hey Lisa,

            I’m not sure if Forrest did use a bike in any of the times he might have visited the area he hid the chest, but if he did more power to him.

            Guessing there is still snow up there. Haven’t seen any here. Lol

            Good to see you posting again. If your still searching your same area -good luck.

            Bur

          • Bur & Lisa – I won’t rule out a bicycle being involved. It does offer another legitimate interpretation of how “too far to walk” fits into the poem. Others have reasoned the same with watercraft, and since Forrest is a pilot perhaps even aircraft could be worked into the equation.

            The interpretation I keep settling back on myself is that “too far to walk” is the dividing line between where Forrest is giving us points of reference on where to start looking, and where a BOTG search begins. Forrest has been upfront about how he has walked to his car and back twice in an afternoon. Maybe I’m falling into a faulty assumption, but I can’t shake the idea that Forrest parked his car “below the home of Brown” rather than at “where warm waters halt”, and that “too far to walk” is the line that seems to confirm this in my mind. But of course, I could be wrong.

          • Blex – Forrest doesn’t say he walked anywhere. He actually said this:

            I made two trips from my car to the hiding place and it was done in one afternoon.f.

      • ” Put in” is a boating and aviation term. Do you think Forrest could of used a boat? Maybe not?
        What do you think? Of course some walking was involved.

        • There’s this quote about his actual mode of transport back to the car:

          When I hid that treasure chest and walked back to my car, it was totally out of my hands. In a loud voice I said “Forrest Fenn, did you really do that?” and I started laughing (9:20) (6/24/14)

  66. I think the implication is that the “put in” is South of the “Home of Brown” on a map. For example, looking at Indian Creek (brave=no place for the meek) south of Ennis (as in Ennis-Brown House analogy).

  67. Everyone – New theory for “home of Brown” in the Poem. This is a quote from TTOTC, located just below Forrest’s curved, Rainbow- like epitaph on the epilogue page:

    *No time spent in thought is wasted and nothing is too small to know, so one should not let knowing a little bit be a substitute
    for learning more.”

    Now compare that to the quote on the cover page of Osborne Russell’s “Journal of a Trapper, from “Sir T. Brown”, who is actually Sir Thomas Browne. Spelled with an e on the end. That was for you, E.C. Waters!

    I will include the link to the online resource with that quote on the title page and the actual quote excepted below this post.

      • Blex –

        “Good-night, good-night! parting is such sweet sorrow / That I shall say good-night till it be morrow.”
        — Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet

        The secret E in this case is for Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford. Wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more!

        • Blex – Did Edward write this epitaph for William Shakespeare?:

          “Good friend for Jesus sake forbeare, To dig the dust enclosed here. Blessed be the man that spares these stones, And cursed be he that moves my bones.”

          • Lisa – From what information I could find, that quote was attributed to Willy himself, but perhaps he plagiarized it??? The game is afoot!

    • E.C. Waters – If you want to get on this train, we should go over to The Blaze thread. Another quote I just found:

      “Life is a pure flame, and we live by an invisible sun within us.” – Sir Thomas Browne

    • Lisa, this 2005 comment from a JRSM review on Sir Thomas Browne might more strongly align with FF’s views on Time & Mortality, and coincidently 5 points on the Circle on the Square (for the X)…. than the quote from Ozzy’s book.

      (under Reflections)
      “His two books published in 1658 share the unusual distinction for literary gems of being mistitled. Hydriotaphia or Urne Burial and The Garden of Cyrus contain little archaeology or horticulture; one is a meditation on mortality, on time and eternity, and the other an obsession with the geometrical quincunx (arrangement of five objects, four at the corners and one at the centre).8 The final chapter of Urne Burial, eloquent with sombre dignity, is rated among the finest in English literature: ‘Time which antiquates Antiquities, hath an art to make dust of all things…, the iniquity of oblivion blindly scattereth her poppy, and deals with the memory of men without distinction to merit of perpetuity’. Fortunately we have recompense in our imagination: ‘Life is a pure flame, and we live by an invisible Sun within us. A small fire sufficeth for life’ (pp. 131, 135, 137). But we insist in making our own miseries: …”

      I love the reference to poppy… bright red, bravura, brave, “Do Not Touch”, https://www.history.com/news/world-war-i-poppy-remembrance-symbol-veterans-day

      Sir Tom also died on his own birthday… I wonder if FF might have placed the TC on his birthday. Symbolism is so suductive & romantic.

        • Way too esoteric for me Lisa…. sorta thought the poppies of Flanders Field equated to the purple & yellow flowers that flourish without witness. After reading the link (I never read that thread before) I did note that the X ff put on page 99 was on the lozenges. I put no stock in numerology or sacred geometry.
          …. were you Anton or lia20lia by any chance?

          • OS2 – My handle here at Dal’s and over at Mike’s has always been E for Elizabeth, my given name (with an asterisk) or my full name, Lisa Cesari. Only others seem to need to mask their identities. Not me.

  68. Home of Brown

    Just a thought.
    Mary (Mitzi).. Brown … donated her long hair in WWII . They used her hair to make Bomber site crosshairs… she responded to a newspaper ad to do this… she was born in Pueblo and her house there .. but Pueblo is not on the Fenn map…. …. I don’t know where she is buried… maybe that location is her “home” since she has passed? if someone were drawing lines on the map for an X… maybe could use this as one dot? Fenn map has the location of the treasure..but if drawing on the map..use a different map?
    … I am starting to think you have to connect the dots on the map… make either a “box” that you would make an x from the corners and show the location… or just an X ….. fenn said ” stay in the box”. Either the drawing is a box… or the location ends up being in Taos Box-by the gorge… which is 800 ft deep… and Omega symbol added on back page that someone spoke about… means 800 in greek number system.. it is the 24th letter- value of 800, or Box Canyon by Delores river or the box canyon around Yellowstone… I think the word ” box” is to help us figure out a clue … HOB is difficult.. I even thought of a crayon BROWN…which is sometimes capitalized on the crayon…. as in put in —a crayon BOX…(it’s home) again ..back to a Box –“Stay in the box”.

    • BETH GILLY – Looks like a box. Too confining:

      https://images.app.goo.gl/usB4LUmaJcnkCfad9

      But the Madison River does flow more easily, from my WWWH at Madison Junction to the Barns Holes. That section is inside the ‘box’, but beyond there to Baker’S Hole is a decidedly Slithering, Snakey section, which makes that No Man’s Land part (that still doesn’t allow boats, in Montana, the Treasure State) a mind bending journey. Is that where Forrest and Skippy harnessed Cody the buffalo to the car? And do all those curves in the river add mileage to that journey? Methinks yes.

      Didn’t Forrest find out that he had Kidney cancer at age 58? Same year as the 1988 Yellowstone fires. Do you think he chose a hidey spot outside the YNP border, due to the reported mismagement of fires in 1988?
      I noticed there was a fire management center between Baker’S Hole and the KWYS runway. And my Double Omega Island is in the middle of a slow S curve in a wider, deeper section of the Madison River. Could be a good fire-safe location.

      Forrest Fire, what do you think of my hypothesis?

      I hope we don’t have a dry June, after all the Spring growth from the excellent snowfall we had in the Rocky Mountains this Winter. That would be a recipe for another fire disaster, like the one in 1988, which started in mid-June. That would be bad for the Function at the Junction.

      Ssssssssss….

      Could be the Madison River “blueprint”, Cody pulling the car, or the sound of a fire storm brewing.

      Love, Smokey the Bear

    • BETH GILLY – Or:

      Sssssssssss…

      Could have been the sound of Forrest’s dingy losing air, if he had run into a Moose or Grizz, in that ‘no place for the meek Rangers’ section of the Madison River. Wet camping gear would have been a problem. To But not like walking out with bare feet, right, Forrest?

    • The Patriot;

      Why couldn’t “Stay in the box” relate to a box canyon? Just a thought – JDA

        • JDA – From that Forrest quote about the box:

          “…the treasure may be located by the one who can best adjust.”

          Or, maybe:

          One who can ‘Bess’d add Just’?

          See also: Queen Elizabeth I ‘Bess’ and her historic Action of Trover:

          https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trover

          Finders keepers, Losers sweepers.

          I am here to tell you, Forrest.

          Love, Elizabeth

          • Ah ha…. catching up & saw this… .) The Trover link may relate to the Romberg song in the Stout Hearts chapter…. Of course the song fits Fenn’s college-comradely story, but there is a secondary fit too. The song fits the plot of the movie. The men were going to retrieve their ship, the New Moon, which had been confiscated by the king. I thought a new moon (crescent/arch) had been the hint, but possibly it was the TROVE? FF buries his hints deep, beyond a metal detector, but not beyond Lisa, our Important Literature detector. I’m letting the moon go now. Thx Lisa.

          • Hello OS2. The moon goes through “stages,” perhaps that of which Shakespeare, too.

          • Hello OS2. It is a mystery. Besides the nested dove on the crescent moon, there’s the lumberjack in the dark of night.

          • OS2 and pdenver – Thank you both for always appreciating what I am trying to do here at Dal’s. I apprecite everything both of you contribute as well.

            The New Moon is the phase when the moon is invisible or is a super thin crescent a day or two after. I am studying photography of the Milky Way, so I know.

            Here are the moon ‘stages’ for August of 2010:

            http://www.moonconnection.com/moon_august_2010.phtml

            The New Moon is August 10-12. The phase that matches the Axe Man pic is several days before.

            In my TTOTC book excerpt from Forrest’s blog, that pic appears on the Epilogue page with text about William Marvin Fenn. He passed on February 8, 1987. Was that also a Waxing Gibbous Crescent Moon phase? And is that a tacit reference to my WWWH at Madison Junction and the drying of tears?

            I believe the Stout-hearted men poem reference was a nod to that same text, about Forrest’s father teaching and influencing so many people. The “10,000 more” in that poem. And I think the pic is Mr. Fenn ‘gone in Peace’ above the clouds, like a Dove on a nest.

            Or, that may also be a metaphor for communication with his father. The medal winning Passenger Pigeon, for being first with the crucial messenge delivery at D-Day in 1944 was Paddy: a nickname for Patrick or Irish or a loss of temper. Maybe a “paddle” reference, like the one in the Epilogue text? The Messenger Pigeons operated during WWII and WWII. Like the timeframe of the poem about Stout-hearted men.

            And I read the nests of the returning pigeons were wired to ring a bell for the Signal Officer to know the Messenger Pigeon had returned. Could the bell also have sounded, when the Messenger Pigeon left? Is there some way Forrest may have used this simple technology to detect when the bronze chest leaves “IT’S” ‘nest’ at my hidey spot, also? Combined with the power of the Crystal Radio Skippy built for Forrest in 1944?

            IMO. Just playing Sherlock Holmes again.

        • Correction: Finders keepers, Losers weepers.

          My S blaze from my Baker’S Hole Solve ‘keeps’ showing up in the darndest places! I gotta remember to tell my librarian friend to use her fly fishing staff to hunt for a possible bike in the “water high”.

          All IMO.

        • JDA – Let’S take another ‘look Sea’ at that “box” quote again:

          Dear Mz. Mary,
          The solve is difficult for many searchers because their minds think the clues are tougher to decrypt than they really are.
          Some say they are trying to think outside the box, as if the solution lies somewhere out there.
          Until now I have resisted telling them to get back in the box where their thoughts are comfortable and flow more easily.
          The blueprint is challenging so the treasure may be located by the one who can best adjust. To illustrate my point go to YouTube – Smarter Every Day. f

          Mary is aka Meriam, and that is a backwards bike S Sharp or Z. Special iZed knowledge? In Merriam Webster’s dictionary, a combination form of ‘cryppt-‘ means ‘hidden or covered’. Ergo, “decrypt” means ‘unhide or uncover’? Methinks d’Crypt is through the reeds on my Double Omega Island. Mirriam was related to Moses. The guy on your Stairway to Heaven (“somewhere out there”?), leading up to your office. With all those books.

          And what’s all that “blueprint” on my Google Maps-based online topo map, Forrest? IS that “IT”, where my “thoughts are comfortable and flow more easily”? I can’t see what that dot is in the middle of Captain Kidd’S Island. Google Maps doesn’t go down far enough in Satellite view.

          But, as you can See, I have a ‘tight focus on A word that is key’: wiSe.
          Athena would love thiS! That’s a pretty big magnification on that S blaze.

        • JDA – Let’S re-viS-IT my “good map” to see that “blueprint”:

          https://www.mytopo.com/maps/?lat=44.7050&lon=-111.0968&z=20

          And Mirriam means, “Sea of Sorrow”. Wish I could part “IT” to get to my Double Omega Island. Then I wouldn’t have to do my “brave and in the wood” thing, paddling a canoe, to cross where Forrest put the upper X on page 99.

          All IMO. This post and the one before. And ALL my posts, for further reference.

        • JDA – Correction: Miriam. Too many R’s. Thinking about Captain Kidd and mirrors and that backwards bike S. Aaaarrrrgghhh!

          And Happy Mother’s Day to you, Meriam. Love you and your Son. (“somewhere out there”)

      • JDA – Hey, look! One of those boxes on that card has a quincunx on it! Just like the bronze box has several. Is that the box Forrest is referring to? Or maybe the proposed quincunx architecture of the Poem?

        The ‘die’ is cast. IMO.

        • JDA – Now playing at the Spot Theater here in town: Shakespeare’s Julius Caesar!:

          The die is one of a pair of dice. The cast means thrown. This phrase [in Latin] was said by Julius Caesar when he crossed the Rubicon with his legions, starting a civil war.

          Hence, my name. Note: there is a five and a three in that Joker pic. E is the fifth and L is the third letter of the Alphabet. I couldn’t even try to plan this stuff.

          Giggles.

      • JDA – Which all brings me to ‘letter of the law’ from the perspective of QE1’s contemporary, William Shakespeare:

        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_and_spirit_of_the_law#Shakespeare

        What did Forrest write to deflect that direct question, which he answered with words like “quibbling” and “prevaricating” and “proximaty”?

        And is there a ‘letter of the law’ and a ‘Spirit of the law’ idea built into the architecture of the Poem?

        Thinking of A for Athens and Athena and ‘proximAty’ and ‘knowlege’ now. There’s a wiSe ‘owl’ in that last one. And if you add the mathematical constant ‘e’ (with mE?), you get:

        ‘ken owl lege’

        “I can keep my secret where,
        And hint of riches new and old.”
        (‘can’ be ‘ken’, meaning ‘knowledge’. No ‘d’ . Just like no ‘d’ in d’log. Also contained in that word. Backwards and forwards.)

        Three dots triangle (therefore):

        “If you are brave and in the wood,
        I give you title to the gold.”

        Now, where’S ‘For rest S’ lost ‘treasureS bold’ or “trove”? And that backwardS bike?

        Love, Elizabeth

      • JDA – Posting this link again, to illustrate how a “put in” of an ‘e’ can be confusing. “IT” is ‘Barns Holes’ not ‘Barnes Holes’. Reminder: there is a Big Brown trout on my topo map, just across and above the ‘alone in there’ Barns Hole #1:

        http://flyfishyellowstone.blogspot.com/2009/03/prince-kills-fish.html?m=1

        Is “IT” time to read Forrest’S preface in TFTW again? Lots of braided creeks and streams, as the Madison River jogs nigh (left) along the “flow more easily” riparian area, outside the YNP ‘box’, where the rangers are not. But where the Grizzes are.

        In his book about J.H. Sharp, Forrest quoted Sharp’s observation of how hard the horse team was working to pull their Stagecoach up the steep Taos Canyon. He used ” heavy load” to describe the weight. Did the Yellowstone Stagecoaches ford rivers and go up steep canyon grades, also, while carrying “heavy loads” of passengers and luggage? Methinks yes.

        “Begin it where warm waters halt,
        And take it in the canyon down.
        Not far, but too far to walk,
        Put in below the home of Brown.

        From there it’s no place for the meek,
        The end is ever drawing nigh.
        There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
        Just heavy loads and water high.”

        Spinning my wagon wheels again…

      • JDA – That Barns Holes link has a great diagram, which you can enlarge here:

        http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RsCdaHlwY9g/Sbw8FJCkMPI/AAAAAAAAGIM/q0FJBlCkDdU/s1600-h/monida+at+west.jpg

        Look on this diagram to see where the two Hydrolic Rams were, where the ‘D’ in Madison River is. The blog author says that’s where the secret hole is. I think that might be Forrest’s solo favorite: Barns Hole #1.

        Hydrolic Rams leading to that Water Tank could be, “heavy loads and water high”, also.

        And if you take out that ‘D’ in ‘Madison’, like Forrest did in ‘knowlege’, you get ‘Maison’, which means, ‘Home’, in French.

        Awesome. IMO.

  69. Go ahead and focus on a name or label for Brown.
    If I were to hide a treasure worth 2-3 mil and put “Brown” in it with the cap “B” i would make darn sure there weren’t any maps, places, things or labels in this day and age and back all the way to the 1800’s where it doesn’t exist.

    In other words, I don’t think any named or labeled place (HOB or Brown) exists on any map, anywhere that is the actual (HOB or Brown) in Fenns mind and poem.

    I still think this place (HOB or Brown) is only known to the man who wrote the poem, possibly because the others that did know the place didn’t pass it along before they passed on or it’s just a Fenn thing that he never shared directly but only in hints.

    • Hi Jake,
      I completely agree with your hypothesis about hoB: only Forrest knows what exactly coded under this name. Everybody knows that cracking “codename” hoB will lead searcher right to TC.
      I’m sure that my two BOTG were failed because I had too strong focus on a name or label for Brown on a map. I hope my next BOTG will be different because my recent hoB location has nothing linked with Brown.

  70. I think you’re right Jake, As you’re “taking it in the canyon down” you have to be astute and imaginative enough ro recognize something that could be called the “home of Brown.”… I think it will be be an ah-ha moment, or maybe a ha-ha moment.

  71. I’ve read a few threads elsewhere regarding Forrest saying that hoB has nothing to do with Brown Trout. For Example
    I found this on https://bloggedinthewoods.wordpress.com/2015/10/06/forrest-fenn-notes/
    by ERICAJORRE

    “Brown trout have nothing to do with home of Brown” (ChaseChat – Quoting an email from Fenn – July 11, 2015) (Update: I have confirmed this with Fenn myself)

    Was that issue (whether he said that or not) ever really resolved? . I’ve even seen it attributed to diggingypsy. I searched the hoB threads and found no reference to it. I could have missed it. Anyone care to enlighten me? Thanks, mBG”

    • Just did some research on those quotes and found them to be hearsay.
      It appears the original post was deleted or edited.
      Even though it says “I have confirmed this with Fenn myself” where is the email from Fenn and why would it be confirmed to 1 or 2 people?

      There were only 2 sites that surfaced in Google search, one was CC and checked all the quotes from that date and found where it was stated and didn’t see anything that led me to believe it was legit.
      The second site is the one with this “confirmed” comment and where’s the confirmation? LOL

      Be careful out there…

      • Jake,

        Although I still feel that HOB could refer to Brown trout, this did give me cause to explore other options. I believe it is so obscure that it may never be know exactly where it is until FF tells the world after the chest is recovered. I now have another theory though, thanks to the fake news.

        SJM

        • SanJuanMan,
          Yes I agree and have said a few times that we may never know “what” HOB or Brown is and “where it is” is more important to me.

          Another thing I touched upon was that in some cases like bodies of water like a lake or stream it matters a lot more where you are drawing out than where you are putting in. I don’t think we should actually be getting in the floatable, only in your imagination.

    • That is a great question, I personally believe that the solve has something to do with brown trout but there are plenty of those that do not. I just googled that email date as well as checked the tarry scant data base, not that there hasn’t been info to sneak through those forums in the past, butI couldn’t find a direct quote from fenn that collaborated that premise. And as far as I see it, that would be a major piece of information considering how many people tent to tie fly fishing and brown trout into their solves. And since the non brown trout theorists don’t have that quote from fenn himself on speed dial to offer as an I told you so, I tend to doubt such a statement exists. And to further that point, almost everything that Forrest says is in a way that everyone searching has access to it. There are even examples from the past where Forrest has the most seemingly useless responses to someone in an email but since the information at question was offered privately and in response to a question directly about the treasure, he has then turned and repeated it here on this site for us to process as a group. Bottom line, regardless of whether or not HOB has anything to do with brown trout or not, I would give zero credibility to any statement offered from the community as if Forrest had said it, without there being a direct public comment from him indicating that fact.

      • And since jake beat me to it while I was researching, reading and being long winded…. what he said.

  72. meBigGuy,
    Can’t comment on FF saying the above. However, I believe HOB is not about trout.
    Scrapbook 126 has a bear in the water. Bears don’t live in water, so it would not be their home. Another Scrapbook has the story about native American children which are referred to as bairns. The root of these two words (bear and bairn) and beaver is Bher.
    It is, IMO, about beaver. Also, the stories about mountain men/trappers. The trappers were mostly out for beaver. The hat in SB 126 is made of felt, felt is a product of beaver. This hat was also in another SB. Why two stories revolving around one hat. I think FF was trying to tell all of us something with these stories and photos.
    There are other hints in SB’s,TTOTC and TFTW which lead me to this theory.
    Physical homes which are Brown can be painted, ownership names of homes owned by Brown may change, etc. Mountains, creeks, topographical features with the name of Brown have not panned out, as of now, to match the poem.
    This theory of beaver has been discarded by many, but not me. As expected, this will take a few hits from the bloggers, but no theory will be proved right or wrong until the TC is found, so it is with great affection for the bloggers in this blog community, the naysayers to this theory can go pound sand. Just kidding. However, no one theory is correct, including ours, until proven otherwise.
    As always, IMO.
    Good luck and stay safe.

    • I tend to agree with you. I have a friend who has made beaver hats for years. He has made hats for all the celebrity big-screen cowboys of today. A quiet, non-assuming guy with a great sense of humor. Having listened to him tell me how those hats are made reminds me of this Chase. Lots of X’s in those ole beaver hats. Dam – now it got me thinking about “Leave it to Beaver.” LOL

      • wwwamericana,
        I did not know a lot about beavers, hats, fur trade, etc. until the Chase. A lot of research has increased our knowledge of these things. Also, never stayed in NM, just passed through, until the Chase. Beautiful state with lots of early history. So if we never find the TC, oh well, at least we have learned a thing or two and saw some great scenery.
        Good luck and stay safe.

  73. Logic tells me Home of Brown is a person named Brown. From what Forrest has said
    It’s a know place because ….”if he told us we would go right to it.”
    But..I could be wrong, but if he said its home of bear or brown trout, I could NOT go right to it because there are many homes of those.
    So I than go back to a KNOWN place of someone named Brown or a place called Brown,
    Which I narrowed down to about a dozen.
    Yet we MUST find WWWH or as Forrest has told us……..not to go backwards.

    • Forrest also said you can reverse engineer back to WWWH in an answer to a question. I don’t see how you can narrow down WWWH to just one without starting with a hunch for the location of the chest. Without a hunch, it may take solving more clues after solving home of Brown.

    • Hi Lou,

      dozen of hoB is too big number 🙂 It was question about it:

      “FF, you say “There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt.”
      My question- Is there more than 1 home of Brown? Thanks, Jill
      “No Jill, there is only one home of Brown in my poem. F”

      As usually Forrest answer is elusive. Should we think that there is only one hoB in the world? Or should we think that hoB is real physical object and there are many similar objects in the world but only one hoB is important for poem solving?

      • Andy,

        Yes , I believe there is one particular very obscure home of Brown that FF writes of in his poem. I used to think it was trout.
        You make a great point, he is always illusive, evasive or mis-directive, but here he is not. I think we take him at his word on this one.

        Many other things…not so much.

        SJM

        • SJM,
          I’m sure that practically all searchers knows that the brown trout was introduced in YNP in 1990 and only single plant of 9,300 fish was made in Nez Perce Creek in 1890. The fish now inhabits the Madison, Gibbon, and Firehole Rivers. In FHR it is found from its junction with the Gibbon to Keppler Cascades and is particularly numerous in Nez Perce Creek, Little Firehole River below Mystic Falls, and Iron Creek.
          Thus, Nez Perce Creek is the first “hoB” in YNP. Undoubtedly that Forrest knew the history of brown trout in YNP and coded one secret water hole as hoB in his poem. So, if you know location of this exact water hole you know where is hoB.
          I hope we will know soon what is real hoB.

          • Andy,
            I used to think it was trout, not any more. I’ve moved on. I don’t think that you actually have to find it though, if you have enough other circumstantial corroboration to put together a decent theory, then move forward. Isn’t everything just an assumption anyway. Nothing is for sure until someone finds the chest. 10 more days and I’m going in!

            SJM

        • SanJuanMan: ” if you have enough other circumstantial corroboration to put together a decent theory, then move forward.”

          I agree totally SanJuanMan,
          When you are taking a test in school or anywhere and you get stuck on a question, do you stay on that question and waste all your time trying to figure it out or move on to the next question to see if it jives with the other questions before and after.

          I see HOB or “put in” a unsolvable question so I move on and the next clues told me I have the correct HOB, I don’t know what it is but figuring out the clues after told me where it is. That’s all I want to know is where it is, that’s more important than what it is IMLO.

      • There are many people with the surname Brown, but only one definitive home of Brown. Forrest doesn’t say that, but I personally like Lou’s logic.

      • Hi Andy
        Of course only one home of Brown!
        I researched at least a dozen of them. As I have researched all words in forrests poem!
        I have done this to learn as much as I can! It’s been real exciting to visit some of them.
        Some I went too after finding WWWH near.
        Others I went to because they were very interesting and places I know Forrest went too.
        I do believe Home of Brown is a known place of Brown by hearing what Forrest is saying.
        There is only one home in the poem!

        • Agreed. Before each BOTG I usually have a combination of WWWH and hoB. Other clues are so well coded by Forrest that you can “recognize” them only on site when you already stay below the hoB.
          It’s very good idea to visit places which were visited by Forrest. Unfortunately we don’t know all places that he visited in Rockies. For example, I can’t find any reliable information about places in Colorado that Forrest visited before 1986. He definitely passed this state many times when they were traveling to Yellowstone between 1935-50. But Colorado is still a “blind spot” in all Forrest interviews, scrapbooks, e-mails etc. Colorado is such amazing state that I like to found some places there that fit the poem.

          • It’s interesting that Forrest does not mention Colorado in the books.
            He passed through there.
            So I wonder if he did not bring attention to it because…..its the state of treasure or because he does not want us wasting time searching here???
            His statement about parking his car at the museum makes me wonder.
            Also Water high in poem… Rocky Mountain High and Denver being the mile high city.
            Than you have the Awesome Browns Canyon!
            Could be?
            Only the Shadow knows.

    • Follow this logic.
      There are no shortcuts.
      If we knew it was a persons name then we could search through historical records and find hundreds of Browns that lived in the Rockies and narrow down the search without even trying to figure out WWWH or the clue in between.
      I don’t think history records are good research material.

      Why does F state over and over to start at the beginning?
      Because you need to start there to find out where HOB is not the other way around. I think he designed the HOB and poem in this way where you couldn’t cheat or “short cut” to that spot or any spot in the poem. That’s logical to me.

      So you have 300,000+ searchers all searching for HOB and we have no confirmation of anyone finding it so far.

      It would be illogical to have a persons name in Fenn’s poem where that person becomes more important than the person who wrote the poem. Doesn’t make sense.

      We can say the same thing for labels on maps as well because searchers would surely find many labeled places for Brown on a map new and old ones.
      What the heck, let’s skip WWWH. I think Fenn thought of that too.

      Like JAK3 said (paraphrasing) it’s in jest ”if he told us we would go right to it.” Watch the video and the smirk on Fenns face and body language says it all.

      Brown is not a persons name or a labeled place on any map IM Logical O.

        • No Aaron,
          I think it can only be found in our imaginations.
          The right imaginational thought and not an actual place by our standards, only Fenns.

          • Interesting thought. My imagination can come up with some interesting ideas for HoB. Then the capital B comes back mind and destroys them.

          • Aaron,
            Let the cap “B” and free yourself from proper wording.
            One cap letter or non capped letter should never destroy anything. We know all the letters in the soup and i and many write in all caps or lower case and everything in between.
            The capped “B” is completely irrelevant when you know it’s just a “b” and the second letter in the soup.

          • Begin it where warm waters halt
            And take it in the canyon down,
            Not far, but too far to walk.
            Put in below the home of
            Brown.
            This is how it looks in my eyes. I’m not messing with the poem, just adjusting what I see.

            Lot of those words that are capped were only capped because they start a new line but don’t deserve the cap.
            You make your own rules in poetry and the capped Brown doesn’t deserve it as well as the And.
            Give and take if you will and I’m not talking about fishing with take.

          • One thing about a capital B. It does try to make us think more. Maybe that is the point, and you are correct and that we shouldn’t focus on it.

    • I agree with Lou Lee’s logic. In fact, I think it is the homestead of Joe Brown. I’m surprised that not many people know where that was located.

      I think people ignoring the history records of their general search area are making a mistake. The hints are old and new. We can see the new but need to learn about the old.

      • I like the joe brown theory also. Read up on joe brown and you will so many words in the writings that are in the poem. Put in is one. Heavy loads is mining. Bear gulch, creek it’s in every story I read about joe brown. Many have searched that area.

        • As you said, many have searched his mining operation. Joe’s homestead was somewhere else, IMO.

          Why search the area around the second or at most fourth clue? I admit that I did.

  74. Continued…

    appears to be Bozeman. Logic tells me that maybe he set up camp at Brown’s Hole, because of the distance to home. Forrest and Donnie would have said that is NTFTW, though. IMO.

      • Hi Lisa,

        it’s very interesting historical data but we know what Forrest said about knowledge of US history:
        “When asked if knowledge of US history was required to interpret the clues in the poem, Forrest says: “The only requirement is that you figure out what the clues mean. But a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help. f (from FQwF: Warm Waters and Geography)”.
        For discovering of real hoB I agreed with Jake statement: “Brown is not a persons name or a labeled place on any map”.
        However, it’s good that all searchers use different strategies in the quest for hoB because these multiplex approaches increase the probability of solving Forrest enigma during next 10-20 years.
        Thanks for the link!

        • Andy – Key word: “required” in that Q/A. Read it again, out loud, stressing that word, in the question and Forrest’s response. Listen good. He does. And so do I. All IMO.

          • Andy – Next key words: “knowledge of geography”. Wouldn’t Fred M. Brown as Gallatin County Surveyor and Commissioner, working together with the YNP Superintendent (with Fred’s Surveyor Father) to build roads and draw maps, be considered “a comprehensive knowledge of geography”? That “might help”?
            He never said WE have to have that knowledge. But Fred M. Brown most certainly did.

            Logic. I rest my case.

            IMO.

        • Andy – “IT’s very very interesting historcal data”. Were you referring to my “IT” as the Madison River, and Fred M. Brown’s possible long term residence at Brown’s Hole, as a possible “home of Brown”? Do you think that 1912 map location name was to honor Fred’s Father?

          And didn’t Forrest camp at Baker’S Hole in his Father’s Airstream? Is that a ‘backwards bike’ thinking example, Forrest?

          Thank you for teaching me to fish, Forrest!

          All IMO.

          • Lisa,
            I’m not against your hypothesis that hoB is linked to some person(s). And Forrest most likely knew about Fred M. Brown and his residence on Madison river. Moreover, if he coded the site where Fred M. Brown residence was as “the home of Brown” it means that this spot is the only one both in poem and in Rockies.
            Actually my first approach was the same i.e. to find person(s) with last name Brown who had a home in Rockies. I did found one and the site was very interesting in terms of poem details. I didn’t have metal detector with me so still not sure 100% that TC was not there. Maybe will visit it again.
            I’m sure that Baker’S Hole is very interesting site for both searching and fly fishing. Maybe I’ll visit it this summer just to evaluate any links with the poem. Fly fishing at Forrest places is very good idea 🙂

        • I don’t think a person or places name from history isn’t outside the scope of a “comprehensive knowledge of geography”

          If you looked at a map of Denali National Park today (if there was a new one yet) it would say Denali. but if I referred to Mount McKinley, would you be able to find it?

          Isn’t that both History AND geography.

          • These particular waters were thoroughly muddied when ff tossed this response (about what’s more important in solving the search) into the pool –

            “I don’t see how Toponymy can help you at all . . . .” f
            (5 April 2017)

            JAKe

  75. He said you can reverse? Do you know where he said this?
    Also the reverse bicycle thing really has me thinking. What is he trying to tell us?
    He said to follow the clues in order, but what order? Backwards? Sideways?
    He has said we are missing something.
    Begin it…….WWWH.
    We know this much.

    • lou Lee, I apologize for not including the source as expected. I’m having some technical problems trying to copy and paste from my phone. Can you help me with that? The Q&A is at: MysteriousWritings.com; Questions with Forrest Fenn and The Thrill of the Chase Treasure Hunt; archive page 2.

      I don’t relate that with the backwards steering bicycle. That seems to refer to something he said about being able to adjust. As that relates to the home of Brown, may I suggest that the place doesn’t need to be in the Rockies? As long as you put in below the latitude for the HoB, you’ve put in below, IMO. A quick search on tarryscant.com should lead you to that quote about adjusting if you need it.

      • Also, if you put in not far down the canyon, can’t the home of Brown be too far to walk if it was well east or west along a latitude? Logic tells me it can. I don’t see where the poem restricts the HoB to the Rockies so IMO, it would be a self-inflicted restriction.

        You would only have a latitude running through a state so you’d have more dues to pay to find a definitive WWWH. You’d be on the home stretch if you found that so please, break a leg.

  76. Hi Lou Lee,

    I think this is what you are referring to, it’s from Mysterious Writings in 2014:

    “Do you think that someone who is sure about the location of the home of Brown could reverse-engineer where warm waters halt? Ben Raylor

    Thanks for the question Ben. If you are sure about the location of home of Brown why are you concerned about where warm waters halt? But to answer your question, sure you could and a few searchers might throw in some gas money for a percentage of the take. Good luck. f”

    http://mysteriouswritings.com/questions-with-forrest-fenn-and-the-thrill-of-the-chase/

    • Thanks Mark, I do now remember this! I’m now going to ponder this too. Again…….and the hundreds of things Forrest has said…….
      Thanks for posting!

      • Lou Lee,

        The only way to be sure about hoB is because one nailed down wwwh. Why would anyone worry about reverse engineering the location when you’ve already been there? The last statement from Forrest’s quote above wishes folks good luck. Is about, if you think you have the hoB and try reversing engineering to get to wwwh and have not started at wwwh, your going to need a whole bunch of luck, cause you’re not going to find it. Drinking beer may help with the pain from a no go.

        Just Say’n IMO

    • There are 2 good take aways from that Q & A.

      1 – You’re gonna need GAS money to go back from HOB to WWWH – too far to walk, you will need a vehicle.

      2 – “percentage of the **take”
      And **take it in the canyon down
      **Take it back up the canyon and pay for gas for it.
      Not a percentage of the treasure….

  77. I am going to take “home of Brown” as the painting from Grafton Brown , of the lower Yellowstone falls canyon, Lower and Below same words. Also, it is Art. Grafton lived in Victoria B.C. where I am from and his first Exhibition was in Victoria, his first commission was Salmon can label and I live in the Salmon Capital of the World, so they say here in Campbell River, (Omens again). and something in the back of my head says Fenn has been in Victoria, B.C. Happy Trails

  78. There’s so many people named Brown, that I’m inclined to think it refers to the color.

  79. Thank you everyone! Many of these people and places I have been researching too.

    I still am starting with WWWH. Focused there.
    I admit I’ve been to a few HOB.

    Soon I will be BOG. I’d say more now but I am in a car trying to text.

    Thanks again! Best wishes to all searchers!

    • Ohh, you’re looking for green backs to get back to WWWH from HOB.
      Sorry, I’m heading in the other direction towards nigh.

      • Jake – I’m pointing out that in this example Take and Fish have the same meaning. I’m drawing attention to some of the potential word play in the poem.

        • Take and Fish, mean the same thing?
          Not in my book and not how I see it in the poem.
          I will take fish home to eat. Stick with Go Fish if you want. I’ve got plenty of 3’s for you.

          • You could also say I’m looking for something in my pocket but my fingers don’t have eyes.

            I will search my pockets unless there is a hook in there or on my fingers to hook what’s in there. Caught ya!

  80. I asked an avid and seasoned trout fisherman where he would lay a line for browns. The answer was so simple…yet did not narrow my search at all. MUST get the clues in the order of their appearance to progress, then it will make sense, in theory of course.

  81. It is likely beneficial to discuss the different possible meanings for home as well. Having home defined correctly will lead to the best choices for Brown.

    And if we choose correctly then what is it or how is it that we put in?

    This is just one small piece of the maze, with plenty of dead end choices.

  82. “put in below the home of Brown”
    Now, if you say it with a Texas accent he is talking about pudding, puddin’.
    Unless he was speaking French, then he meant Poutine. It’s fries covered with brown gravy and cheese curds. In America it was called disco fries. In Texas it was called something on shingle, or mom’s ship wreck casserole.
    In any case, it’s all gravy…thick muddy gravy.
    I ‘liken’ Brown to something muddy. IMO

  83. “put in below the home of Brown” This may not be a directional for the seeker. It may be a statement as to where the chest was placed. Paraphrasing:and using a pinch of imagination. Imagine. f talking to himself..

    Begin it WWWH. Take it (the treasure chest ) in the canyon down. Not very far forrest….but to dad-blasted far to walk.

    Now I AM going to hide this box (put in) below the home of those whooper Brown Trout on the Rio Chama below ElVado with its heavy loads and water high. Well forrest you old mavric….from here it’s no place for the meek (Ghost Ranch).

    The end is ever drawing nigh….forrest would you look at that petroglyph. Well I’m calling that one. heck of a blaze.(just below here is the perfect place to “put in” my treasure chest.

    Ha,ha,ha….laughing to beat the band…..I can’t believe you did that Forrest

    • Guy,
      At one time in the past, I & others thought “drawing” may be a petroglyph. Some still think of it and stick with it but I don’t use this theory anymore.
      I was thinking of a galaxy/universe type petroglyph.

  84. To be a little more serious about the Home of Brown,
    The best HOB location in New Mexico that I ever saw is Picuris Pueblo. The governor there has the title of Brown. the pottery is infused with mica and is a burnt umber color. The Kivas have a rainbow that is colored with black, green, yellow, and white. Colors mentioned in Tea With Olga.
    Specifically to the east of Picuris Peak, below the overlook is a canyon down.
    It is a marvel gaze from the overlook. There is a creek down there, and a dirt road, forest road 439. Ironically the creek is named Rio Grande. The only problem is that the dirt road requires 4 Wheel Drive. So, I had to turn my sedan around and head back. Other searchers have been up there.
    Maybe it is worth another look, if only to explore. IMO

    • Michael Hendrickson – Your description of this area intrigued me, so I took a look at it in a little more detail this morning. I could not find any confirmation that the governor of the Pueblo is titled “Brown”; where did you learn this fact? I could not find a forest service road 439, but there is a forest service road 469 right by the Pueblo. Was this the road that you meant? That is my guess. I see that there is a creek running along this road that is unlabeled on GoogleEarth and am guessing that this is the Rio Grande Creek you are referring to? The color yellow is not mentioned in TTOTC chapter Tea with Olga, but red is and you did not mention that.

      I see the canyon down east of Picuris Peak, so in that case, would your WWWH location for this area be the peak itself or the high saddle to the north of the peak? It looks like an interesting area. I also see that there is a “Telephone Canyon” just east of the Pueblo that reminds me of the painting of the Indian with his ear up against the telegraph pole. I see bits & bobs around the area that could be tied to the poem, but it seems challenging to string together a continuous solution here.

      • That the governor of Picuris Pueblo has the title Brown came from a searcher that lives in Penasco, Sancho.
        You are right about the colors. In the picuris rainbow there is red, and green. There is also black, white, and yellow used in their drawings I source this from the book Picuris Pueblo Through Time edited by Michael Adler and Herbert Dick. Form the William P. Clements Center for Southwest Studies Southern Methodist University. And also you are correct that the forest road is 439, with my glasses on.
        As for WWWH, it was regarded to be a spring at the top of the west side of Picuris Peak. If memory serves me right it is called Aqua Caliente, Warm water. We used to believe that this led us to Pilar by the Rio Grande river. Since that Rio Grande has been removed from the Chase we no longer take it in that canyon down. We CAN take it in the other canyon down to the east. But to string it together we must look at the big picture, and then use boots on the ground for the rest of the clues.
        Sorry for the previous errors. It remains all IMO.

        • Thanks, Michael. It’s definitely an area that looks interesting. Going back to your original post, I’ve also wondered about whether or not Forrest needed to drive up a 4WD only road. I tend to think not, but there’s no strong evidence either way from anything I know of that Forrest has said, so it’s a possibility that can’t easily be discounted at the moment.

  85. How about Brown being Browning , Montana. It works as a very cryptic clue.
    Put in = Put the word IN on the end of Brown to give Brownin.
    Below the home = You need to take an elevator to get below the home to the basement. In Russia you press the G button to go to the basement, see Wikipedia for that one. Put G onto Browin and you get Browning.
    Seems a bit out there, until you join put and in together to get Putin, the Russian president. This is maybe a confirmer.
    I know it probably is not correct but it is food for thought.
    Fenn talks about Russia, has mentioned basements and has said that you can reverse engineer the clue, perhaps meaning an elevator going down. I am not saying that the treasure is in Browning, it is one of the places you must find on a map.

    • John R,
      I think we should be looking for WWWH 1st.
      It may work (looking for HOB 1st) for someone’s solve in that area though, I don’t think so.
      Just makes sense to figure out WWWH and TIITCD and then PIBTHOB.

      This is one of the points I tried to make about looking for the blaze, no place for the meek and Brown. I think Fenn mentioned – no shortcuts and has stated many times we need to figure out the 1st clue first.

  86. I think we should be looking for WWWH 1st.
    It may work for someones solve in that area though, where they think they have figured out WWWH and TIITCD.
    This is one of the points I tried to make about looking for the blaze, no place for the meek and Brown. I think Fenn mentioned – no shortcuts.

    • Jake
      No one is saying to look at HOB
      First! People are just talking about this clue! You keep saying
      We need to look at wwwh first.
      I’m sure most everyone is!
      We are talking home of Brown!
      Like any other clue in the poem!
      No one is saying it’s a starting point.

      • Lou Lee,
        I have moved my reply to John R above where it was meant to go. I tweaked it a bit so people can clearly see he is trying to solve PIBTHOB first as some do here. Clearly it’s a starting point for many as some of the other clues.
        Fenn is the one who keeps saying we need to figure out, solve, find, etc.. WWWH. Take it up with the elephant in the room not me.

  87. Too much deep thinking going on in here. IMO making it way too complicated

  88. Home of Brown?
    William Robert “Bob” Brown Was a comic book illustrator
    He died in Manhattan.

    When one googles manhattan+new mexico you see a lot about the Manhattan project ‘bomb’ which was made in Los Alamos, New Mexico.

    Forrest mentions both Manhattan and in last book a bomb-type explosion where Skippy was hurt. (Plus other references to target practice with a bomb. And he was in Germany with atomic bomb under wing, etc. )

    Could Los Alamos be a possible HOB?

  89. The little girl from India could solve the first two clues, but not the third clue. Which I’m guessing is the HOB, which probably has to be seen in person, to recognize. IMO.

  90. Taking the possible hints in TTOTC book at face value, Mr. Fenn talks about the brown stain on his pants, from the fire escape, the stain on his pants from falling off the milking stool, washing the pots the brown gravy was cooked in. All seem to be referring to the color. IMO

  91. This page is now closed to new comments. To continue the conversation please go to the newest HOB page.

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