The Nine Clues…

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This is the place to discuss the nine clues…For instance:
What are the nine clues…
Forrest has told us that  “Begin it where warm waters halt” is the first clue. What is the next clue.

139 thoughts on “The Nine Clues…

  1. My 9 clues are in these lines:
    1. Begin it where warm waters halt
    2. And take it in the canyon down
    3. Put in below the home of Brown
    4. From there it’s no place for the meek
    5. The end is ever drawing nigh
    6. There’ll be no paddle up your creek
    7. and 8. Just heavy loads and water high
    9. the blaze

    My thinking hasn’t changed much in a few years and will never for my 9 clues.
    Before this way of thinking I thought any word, phrase, punc was a clue.
    KISS

    • I don’t generally try and count clues, but I just did to compare with your list and I think you’ve got it spot on per my way of thinking.

      • No matter how and when you add them up, whether before or after, you must come up with 9.

        You came up with the same clues using a different method but I like to know what I’m looking for in the poem by Forrest’s words.

        Either way, it’s a nice way of thinking as long as you end up what he stated several times.

    • Hi Jake,
      My clues differ a bit from yours, so here goes: 1 and 2 are the same. 3/ Put in. 4/ Below the home of Brown. 5/ The end. 6/ is ever drawing nigh. 7/ there’ll be no paddle. 8/ up your creek. 9/ If you’ve been wise and found the blaze.

      Doing it this way I have been able to fit them into a location, but am still struggling with clue # 9.

      Good luck with yours.
      Jeff C

  2. One of the most interesting ideas that has been tossed around is that the nine clues are actually constructed like the clues in a crossword puzzle with across and down clues and when properly set-up the crossword gives you the proper perspective to understand the puzzle of the poem…

    One of the clues to this idea is the word “down”…as in Take it in the canyon down…and “down” being a hint that the solution to that clue is a down word in the crossword…

    I’ve seen some interesting crosswords formed from the clues using this idea but if this is the accurate way to interpret the clues no one has yet come up with the proper crossword that will solve all nine clues and therefore locate the chest…

    I will say that one piece of supporting information for the solution to the poem being in a crossword is that Forrest enjoys crossword puzzles…and looks forward to the Sunday crossword puzzle in his newspaper…

    This has been reported by more than one of his friends…and I will also say that I have also observed Forrest enjoy solving the crossword puzzle in his Sunday paper…

    • One of the arguments against a crossword puzzle is Forrest’s statement in Scrapbook Sixty Two …
      “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map. f”
      http://dalneitzel.com/2014/04/26/scrapbook-sixty-two/

      But then you would have to believe that a crossword puzzle falls into one of those items he has ruled out….or you would just have to agree that in the above statement Forrest ruled out crosswords in the “spirit” of what he stated…

      Many folks disagree and still consider a crossword puzzle approach as a “simple” approach to solving the poem…

      • I’m a fan. I’m still just at the beginning, just scratching the surface, no chest here. But I think it helps explain why the poem is constructed the way it is and why it took the architect some time to get the blueprint exactly how he wanted it.

        “And the General sat……

    • Dal. I found something about the chest that lead to crossword puzzles. It had to do with a word from the information history of the chest. Back in January a post on the chase site posted the archology book that had a picture of the chest lid. Siege of the church. Something like that.

    • Very good reasoning, Allen. That’s the first time I’ve seen someone put that together. Great quote source to back up your reasoning. I think you’re on to something!

    • That’s logical… But really not late breaking news. fenn told us [once in audio] WWH is the first clue, and we need it or we have nothing. We have a Q&A stating -in part- if you can find the blaze the distance to the chest would be obvious. There are a few aligning comments that give us WWH to the blaze as the section of the poem that, seemingly, leads us to the hide by what of clues…
      What’s the point in the additional 15 line in the poem, since very word was deliberate and would be risky to discount them? Three plus stanzas have to have some reasoning behind them… right?

      • I should explain; IF the poem works like across word… are the other lines in the poem “needed”
        If the idea of across word method is not usable… we still have more than 1/2 the poem to consider for some reason. And that is a lot of words to consider, right?

      • Seeker…maybe the lines of the poem that seem to be left overs *help* with the actual clues as additional info. That comment from fenn has been dissected to pieces…one only needs to go back in the *Blaze archives* right after it came out. It was mentioned here not long ago as well.

        • I familiar with many chats on the subject, ken.
          The two points I was making was about a method [ cross word style ] and are the other line before and after in play? or only from WWH to the Blaze?

          The other thought was more about the poem’s line, not involving between WW and the blaze, as needed… a deliberate need… whether they were meant to help with the clues, find a location of the clues, give a more direct reference to the clues or any other speculative idea… are those lines “needed” ? {kinda thinking in lines with the Q&A ~ Nope, Nope} Or do we just utilize the two stanzas and a line or two in the third stanza and “figure” it out “on site”? And might the other lines in the poem come into play of site, After, the clues references are known of??

          We’re talking about methods and method of reading for what a clue is and where in the poem the clues are framed… In each example to the topic of the methods, are the remaining lines used? I would hope they are, but I don’t look at all this, as basically, 9 lines only, no matter what method anyone chooses to proceed with.

          If I’m being truly honest; a cross word style solve sounds more like a game than straight forward, line of thinking. But I try to join in the chat no matter if I agree or disagree… There are still a lot of WhatIF’s to consider, no matter the method of the process we can come up with.

          • Seek-
            I think it works like a standard word puzzle that has two sets of clues….across and down…
            So the across set of clues might start with
            1. Where warm waters halt

            the down clues might start with
            1. Canyon

            If you set it up correctly (according to those who have used this idea you get names of places that when followed will take you to the chest…

            For instance…and for example only…
            Lets say the answer to 1. across is “Madison Junction” then the answer to 1. down would be the name of a canyon starting with the letter “M”…because 1. across and 1. down start at the same place in the crossword puzzle…

            The extra words simply tell you how to follow that clue to get to the chest…ie..Begin it….and take that canyon…

            It’s intriguing…but no less frustrating…
            For instance…are there any more across clues? or are all the rest down clues made from the letters in 1. across?

            If they are all down does that mean that 1, across should have 8 letters”

            and what will the rest of the across words tell us???

            At Fennboree a few years ago I actually saw someone’s completed crossword with all the clues used and some pretty interesting new clues garnered from the rest of the words in the puzzle…
            But it was mostly non-sensicle and still needed work….

    • I like it Allen, but if “the blaze” is the last clue, why do we care what “in the wood” means? Or any word after blaze for that matter?

      • Fenn said WWH is clue #1. So what do we do with the entire first stanza? If it doesn’t contain a clue, can we dismiss it?

        To clarify, I think the last clue is “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, look quickly down your quest to cease.”

        In the Moby Dickens interview:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RzrIu3hMec

        Fenn had a strong pause, and looked at the crowd after “Look quickly down your quest to CEASE”

        And then he forgot what came after “So hear me all and listen good…”

        I memorized this poem after a week. I’m not barging about that feat, but I think it’s very telling that Fenn forgot, or didn’t care to remember, the last stanza. It may have been added as legalese. Maybe the first stanza too?

        Again, just my $0.02 — just sharing my thoughts.

          • Don’t ask me to explain, but I think the poem works outside to in…then inside to out…I can visualize that.

        • Allen;

          I think that I am fairly sharp mentally. My reasoning powers and ability to think logically are as sharp today as they were ten or even twenty years ago. That being said, at 76, My short-term memory is NOT what it once way. Ask me about things a few years ago, and I remember them well. Ask me what I had for breakfast, and you MIGHT get an “I don’t remember.” Forrest is a few years older than I am. I too memorized the poem in a very short period of time, but occasionally stumble when repeating it either to myself or as a part of a post. From the mind of an OLD guy – I think 🙂 – JDA

          • JDA – I knew this comment was coming, but I agree with you. He could have simply just forgotten. But…

            He seemed very confident to put the paper down and recite the poem, perfectly, until he hit that stanza.

            But I also forget my own phone # sometimes :/

          • Allen,
            it’s not a big deal for me if fenn double check the wording o not or just had a hiccup…
            But it is interesting that words like “I have” and “I’ve” are both used and not one or the other.

            The same with If “you’ve” been wise vs. If “you are”.. why not you’re?
            Why is “there’ll vs, there will?
            Does any of it have to do with how we hear and/or listen? Do these words help with clues?

            I never understood why the poem didn’t starts; As I’ve gone alone… and be the same as, I’ve done it tired. But it seems deliberate to me.

          • Allen

            I hope you don’t mind my butting in.

            I write both songs an poems. Always have.

            When I lose track of or forget a lyric it’s from the part of the song or poem that was changed.

        • Allen,
          Have you ever heard this video where Forrest says “blaze” one of the clues?
          “I think the problem that searchers make is they don’t dwell long enough on the first clue. If you can’t find the first clue, you don’t have anything. I mean there’s people driving down the street looking for a blaze, because that’s one of the clues.”

          1:05
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_fPF8Gc1I8

          I think everything after “blaze” is not a clue.

          • Yes! I forgot about this one. It doesn’t confirm the blaze is the last clue, but it highlights the fact that the blaze is one of the important final clues.

          • No this video alone doesn’t confirm that “blaze” is the last clue but with the video you posted, and with all the other statements by Forrest mentioning the 1st clue and the blaze, it certainly is the last clue at a place you have to figure and the treasure is there waiting for us below the blaze. No brainer IMO.

          • @ Ken and Allen –
            I am not convinced that FF definitively stated that the blaze is a clue in the video linked above. IMO he was just playing out the scenario that searchers were starting in the middle of the poem by looking for the blaze because they thought it was a clue.

          • Suite yourself Bowmarc.
            I know what Forrest said and I’m not going to ignore it because it doesn’t fit with my solve.

          • @ Jake – I have seen and heard the video footage. FF does not use the same exuberance when he comments about the blaze in said video footage as he did when he definitively stated that the first clue is WWWH and that is why I say, IMO, that FF has not stated that the blaze is a clue. I concede that he has talked several times about the blaze, but nothing I have read/seen/heard leads me to believe that is definitively a clue.

            To me, it is in the same realm as when FF made the comment “Here is a lady who may find the treasure because she has done the math and knows exactly where it is.” Does that tell you that there are numbers involved in TTOTC and/or math, or was it more of a funny comment by FF in response to the woman telling him a funny story of how she dreamt of numbers? To me it is the latter explanation.

            Just food for thought.

          • Bowmarc,

            If the blaze wouldn’t be a clue by those ‘standards’… HoB might not be either. fenn said never mentioned hoB as a clue, only if you khew what it was, you’d go right to the chest… right?
            The same for the blaze Q&A If you can find the blaze the distance to the chest would be obvious.

            You use an e-mail of a searcher talking about her ideas, and fenn posting that.
            Well, another email claimed this was all a medical research test for dementia… fenn answered [something to the affect] When he had the first signs of dementia he wrote down were he hid the chest, but can’t remember were he place the note and would have to ask his wife Phyllis if she knew.
            By that standard… fenn should have dementia.. right?

            I would think the line; “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze…” would imply the finding of a blaze is needed as a clue. Be it a point along the way or a marker.. whatever… we are told to Look quickly down once the blaze is discovered.
            That implies a clue that get you closer.. even if the chest is buried.

          • @ Seeker: That is what is frustrating sometimes about this process, trying to decide what is and what isn’t a clue as opposed to what is and what isn’t a hint, what is and what isn’t FF poking fun at a question, questioner, comment, etc.

            To me, his response about people driving around “…looking for the blaze because that’s one of the clues…” is not as straight forward an indication by him that the blaze is a clue as his statement about WWWH being the first clue.

            Nobody has found the treasure yet, but some searchers have been within 200 feet of the treasure, but left the poem, possibly in search of a blaze they erroneously were thinking was a clue is the point of my commentary on this topic. Take the blaze out of the equation and perhaps a searcher gets closer to the treasure than 200 feet?

            Just food for thought.

            PS The dementia exchange, IMO, was one of those instances where FF was poking fun at the topic.

          • Bowmarc,

            “…looking for the blaze because that’s one of the clues…”

            For me that is as straight forward as it gets. Not unlike; “although I’m not ready to say the chest is not in water…” { Q&A about sealing the jar }

            Do we really expect fenn to always come out and add; “not under”?
            I mean, he did say “IF you can find the blaze”… the distance to the chest would be obvious. How can the blaze not be a clue when it’s mentioned in the poem… If you’ve been wise and found it?

          • “… you can find it if you can find the blaze as a result of starting with the first clue. That’s what you have to do.”

          • @ Seeker – I’m still not sold it was FF’s assertion that the blaze is a clue from that comment.

            It won’t be the first time we will have to agree to disagree on specifics. LOL

          • Standing anywhere in the Rocky’s you can spot some kind of blaze, as FF has describe several different kinds. I feel you must complete the first 3 stanzas of it, to be in the correct area of the correct blaze, if you been wise. You may be faced with more then one blaze to deal with to complete the solve. The things I write here are loose thoughts, and food for thought. When I make a comment it is in thought of sharing, and learning. For those of you so called experts that seem to get your feathers ruffled so easily, just calm down, it is only entertainment, with a chance to learn, and have new experiences.

    • Allen,

      IMO…LQD is #6…AND, I like that it is “abbreviated” liquid too?? LQD is also a bond portfolio (ETF) offered by BlackRock. Liquidity (with regards to investments): assets readily converted to cash/cache?? Big black rock next to a beaver pond…?

      My wife says I’m waaay over cooking this thing 🙂

      I’m sure she’s right.

  3. Forest Fenn said to look at the big picture and that any school child can figure it out and maybe even a redneck too, cause he said he hopes some hick who needs the money will find it. So, it’s deceptively simple but it is simple once you figure out the meaning of each clue. So, if one clue is hard to find the rest are hard to find too. But he also said to stick to the first clue till you are solid on that. At least from that point, one has considerably narrowed down the area of search. But apparently just finding the right starting point wont even tell one for sure if it is the right one. What I’m trying to figure out is, how that happened, how did some find the approximate area, without being sure they were within five hundred feet of the treasure. Unless, perhaps someone get there from a different clue.

    • Are you referring to the video where he says a child might have an advantage (paraphrasing), and “don’t ask me to explain that?” If so, my impression was that he was talking about searching outdoors, not deciphering the poem. But I could be wrong. Did he ever say a child could solve the poem itself?

  4. Seeker sense I am going to stop commenting for a while just thought id comment on wwwh – it doesn’t matter if you walk or drive you have to go to wwwh there is no other way around -wwwh – it puts you on the right road to the clues and where the tc is – its a way to get you off the road you are in – and in to the right one

  5. I believe the poem is a legal document. Have you figured out the name of the poem? That is a huge clue!!!!! and a word that is key!!! Sound familiar???

    Begin it where warm waters halt is the first clue, but not all of the first clue!!!

    The first clue is:
    Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down,

    The reason for this is because of what ff said about punctuation and since there is no comma you must take the whole statement.

    I believe the second stanza gives you 3 clues to one geographical location and not 3 different geographical locations. Remember what ff said about the first clue?.”You over simply the clues” “Look at the big picture” I Don’t think he meant look at the big picture as a map, but instead I believe this meant look at the big picture in reference to the poem. Does this all make any sense? By doing this you don’t even need a map, just a basic knowledge of geography. Sound familiar?

    Until next time I leave you with a quote:

    “If you want to go somewhere fast, go alone”
    “If you want to go somewhere far, go together”

    Okay so it is my quote from the side of my boat, but that is the way I am thinking and I guess if you can furrow my way of thinking than maybe we will find ourselves going to the same place. If you understand this than you can imagine how my quote would be a fitting end to Forrest’s poem to Peggy and tied to the treasure poem……… Can you see how it is all tied together? Use your imagination all you need is the poem. DO NOT TOUCH a map. Oops I think I just gave away a clue from the book. Good Luck in your search and stay safe!!!!

    I’m getting closer,
    just wait and see,

    BDM

    • ANYOT;

      You say: “The first clue is:
      Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down,

      The reason for this is because of what ff said about punctuation and since there is no comma you must take the whole statement.”

      Then why don’t you include: “Not far, but too far to walk.”? A sentence (whole statement) does not end until you get to a period… Or did I miss something in my English class?

      You then say: “By doing this you don’t even need a map, ” Why then does Forrest say: “APRIL 2014
      Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map”.f Sorry, I will take Forrest’s word over yours – JMO – JDA

    • Don’t believe there’s a solve for the poems name on top of everything else. Believe it passes and masquerades as The Poem.

  6. You are correct. Not far, but too far to walk is left out as a clue because of the analogy that statement is subjective. I mean to an ant a pond is an ocean, so you might as well ask me how deep is a hole? You get the idea.

    Your last statement about foot pounds, cubic inches, and so on, I agree that is Not needed, you don’t even need a map, all you need is the poem. A map will help you get from your home to the resting place, but not any closure to the treasure. Just my thought. This is why a kid could figure it out. If you knew the answer of the starting place than you would know how difficult it is to solve, but once solved how simple it is.

    • Well, you just keep thinking like that – going against what Forrest says, and I will not have to worry about you being the one who might find Indulgence. Good luck though. Your “New way of thinking” sure sounds like a lot of things I have heard here over the last 34 months – all coming from people who claim that they are the one that has figured it all out, only to come home with excuses – As I said – Good luck – JMO – JDA

  7. Only nine clues, complete stanzas may be left out. Dangerous and tricky indeed. So, how are we to know? Who knows Forrest from his book? That trouble lies is that there are only nine clues. But witch nine? If you get the wrong ones they will through you far off. That’s why it’s been so tricky. That’s why nobody has figured it out yet. I believe I know. I know where indulgence lies. Waiting for me to retrieve her. Winter is upon us now,. Who will I see this spring in the hunt? Good luck to all in the chase. Sencerly Brian

  8. Jeez….I spent a little time with the above mentioned *crossword* idea last evening. The first thing I thought about was, trying to find a lead-in from TTOTC or the poem to even use this method to begin with. Without knowing or hearing from an insider that Fenn likes doing crosswords I was at a cross road right from the start. Never the less…I dug into the first sentence of the poem. I’ve got to say… my brain fried right there on the spot. I really enjoy doing difficult crossword puzzles from time to time…but I stink at conjuring one up from a poem someone else wrote.

    • Ken, I have attempted the crossword puzzle method as well, without success. I also tried something similar with Sudoku (because I thought the story about Sosuko was leading us to a puzzle of this type and also uses the number 9). I can certainly come up with a 9 letter starting point, or “key word”, but that’s as far as I get.

      • Sandy…that was a really smart idea picking out Sosuko and relating that to Sudoku. I would have never even seen that. Sudoku does use the *nine*… but again, nada for me. Is this just a clever distraction to mess with us for the winter?

        • Ken
          I think you’re right.
          A fun game of tiptoeing through the red herrings…while waiting for defrost season.
          Clearly
          Clueless

        • Ken: totally agree with your kudos to Sandy about making the Sosuko/Soduko connection. I couldn’t see Forrest’s African trader’s name without thinking of the ubiquitous newspaper (or United Hemispheres magazine!) puzzle, but I never made the 9 squares/9 clues connection Sandy did. She’s an elite puzzle-solver!

      • Sandy, what have you come up with as a 9 letter starting point, or “key
        word”? Neither/none of mine uses exactly and solely 9 letters.

    • Ken,
      I have similar problems… just getting started.
      Even without the idea of fenn enjoying crossword puzzles, we are told to study the poem because it contains clues [9]… so any method was open at the beginning of the challenge.

      Do we keep the poem in its original format / shape as it was presented to the public? If so, it seems we need to skip a line [letter in that line] here and there to have letters align up and down.
      Do we align the poem either to the right or left column? If so, why wasn’t the poem shown that way.
      Is a word that is key used in some manner?
      Do we have an option for diagonal or backwards words?
      Do we use only the line we think the clues are stack in or the whole poem?

      Simple concerns before even getting into the idea of working on it as a cross word solve. It a fun idea, but like you, getting started seems just as difficult as figuring out what WWH might be just by reading the poem.

      • I know Seeker… I melted at the first line. This morning I thought that perhaps if one were to use this method that each line from the poem would become a clue of sorts for 24 words. The problem then becomes deciding which words to use and then determine what the answer is. Finally…using an alternating…line one across, line two down. That’s when I decided to head down to my project building and paint ceilings. Nothing like some paint in the eyes to clear things up!

    • Crosswords. If say, the first clue is a geyser then you can take it (the word geyser) through the -Y- in canyon and down. And then… that’s as far as my brain can take it. Someone else take it from here.

      • What if the first clue is a waterfall? I read that water falling gets warmer
        when it reaches the bottom of its fall. Which could be during spring or
        summer also. As always, IMO.

  9. I can use the crossword thought and the message comes across- try here peel

    I also should go back and look in my stack of papers, but I had one that said go to earth and toes. I spent time on this direction after the marry the words together comment.

    The uptick to this approach is that you can take the notebook and poem in the car and work this angle in between running errands!

  10. this is the way i see it warm waters halt in every mention of it toftw a rest room toftc eyes crying bufflo steam maybe imconfused may be both books bathing, train depot
    moms cabin cant find location he knoas that tea with olga the big circle. a mystical solve no one can find he is sure of that below the brown worm burried im tkk about all capone they havent found him yet but cement may have been why.hinking long haul under ground makes it a long time to find thim i know what i know wich is nothing for sure like you id guess but i have spent a thought or two. go figure

  11. how the future has a chance when the present has no clue is beyond me im done good night to all you too bubba so why is it that i must go? if any one of us knew that we would cerntly try to out run time without a signuture. so we could also delay the enev or olev im done night all im looking for something yellow or brown i think, who knows

  12. I’m pretty new to the search and have commented only a few on discussions about “the home of Brown”, “architecture of the poem” (specially on the order of the poem), and “There’ll be no paddle up your creek”. This is my first comment on the discussion about “the 9 clues”.

    I’ve already mentioned about the order of the poem in “the architecture of the poem” discussion, that we have to rearrange the clues in the poem in the right order. If you’re interested to know how I’ve come up with the idea of rearranging the poem in the right order, please refer to one of the recent posts in there.

    Now nine clues in the poem are shown below which are arranged in the correct order as I see it. Again this is only my opinion. You don’t have to take or follow them. In the end the exact number of clues won’t matter in finding the chest, IMO, even though FF mentioned that there are 9 clues in the poem several times. The numbers in front of each line in parentheses show the stanza and the line in that stanza.

    1. (2-1) Begin it where warm waters halt
    2. (2-2) Take it in the canyon down
    3. (2-3) Not far, but too far to walk
    4. (2-4) Put in below the home of Brown
    5. (3-1) From there it’s no place for the meek
    6. (3-2) The end is ever drawing nigh
    7. (4-1) If you’ve been wise and found the blaze
    8. (4-2) Look quickly down, [your quest to cease]
    9. (6-3, 6-4) If you are brave and, in the wood, [I give you title to the gold]
    End 1: (4-3, 4-4) But tarry scant with marvel gaze, just take the chest
    End 2: (3-3, 3-4) There’ll be no paddle up your creek, just heavy loads and water high
    End 3: (6-2) Your effort will be worth the cold

    The phrases which are not needed to the solution are omitted, and the lines you can consider after you find the TC are shown as the Ends from 1 to 3. I think the stanzas 1 and 5 are the extra logistics relating to the background information about the poem and the treasure hunt. The clauses within the square brackets are explained below.

    Now I’ll try to explain how IMO those are the nine clues rearranged in the correct order.
    The first four lines are obvious and most searchers got them right, IMO; where to start the search, where to look for the place, the distance to there, and where to put in. At this point I don’t care how you get from WWWH to HOB. Some searchers drove many miles (more than 10 miles or so), and some drove only a few miles depending upon where their home of Brown is located.

    Then the next two lines are also obvious and most searchers got them right, IMO, since the description of the path from that point on to the hiding place of the TC can be hard for most people or even dangerous to especially weak people and the end is not going to be reached right away easily.

    The next two lines are where my clues deviate from most searchers. As I pointed out in other discussion about the order of the poem, I’ve interpreted (3-3) and (3-4) are the clues which should come later since they are written in future tense. The next two clues are, therefore, the next two lines in the next stanza. But the second clause of the second line says “your quest to cease”. I interpreted this as an indicator for searchers to go to the end of the poem to find the next clue since your quest is almost at the end. I think that finding the blaze is not the last step. You have to do something more to actually get the chest. And that’s why I’ve considered (6-3) and (6-4) as the last clue. Once you get that right, then FF wants to give you title of the gold he hid.

    Now you have found the TC. So, don’t spend any time looking at the TC, just take the chest and go. I think I know why he said to hurry to take the chest and go. Because (according to the clue) you have to be brave and, in the wood, to find and get the chest, but some other people (who may be in close proximity to the scene) may be suspicious if they see what you’re doing.

    Then the two lines left out in stanza 3 now become the last steps after you find the TC and return back to the home of Brown (or the put in point). Now since you have 42 lbs. on your back the return path will be also “no place for the meek”, but luckily you don’t have to paddle, just walk the steep path (“water high”). The actual walk will be doubly hard since the path is steep and you’re carrying heavy load on your back. If the path to the TC is the same as the return path to the put in point (as I interpreted that way), going down the path to the TC may not be as hard as the return path. Since we are retrieving the TC and coming back along the trail with heavy load, but FF was going down the creek with the heavy load (actually half of the load at a time) to hide it there.

    — MajinKing

    • Two trips to his car, may not be the full distance of the hidden tc. What if he took one trip from his car with a raft to the put in, and then returned to his car to get his backpack, then returned to raft at the put in. Just two very short trips to get started. Traveled by water, then exited the raft, taking a short hike with his pack to the hiding place. This would certainly make it easier on an 80 year old man. In one afternoon could be 1-4 hours. No paddle up your creek, don’t go up the creek, whether it is dry or wet.

      • Ok greg – You just added a bunch of carrying/lifting/toting a raft to the problems Forrest had. He has to drive to a parking spot – tote/carry a raft to the water’s edge (may be short or long) – tie off the raft – walk back to his car, get the loot, walk back to the raft, float the raft downstream – get out – tie it off again – hike to spot, hike back – untie raft and either carry it back upstream or paddle a raft against the current to get back to the place he put in – Wash, rinse – repeat. You sure made it a LOT harder – JMO – JDA

        • I am pretty sure Forrest only did something akin to walking between the car and the hide. This is based on the answer he gave to a person who asked him if he used any other mode of transportation other than walking. It was a response that you must derive the answer from, but the answer was there, IMO, all the same. And JDA, you continue to be my favorite “responder” with your straight to the point, no BS answers.

  13. most put ins you can get pretty close with the car, small raft 20 lbs, I have seen videos of FF at 80 and he seemed to be pretty healthy. No I don’t think he hiked 2-3 miles out over rough ground and then back. Remember no human trails are close. Every ones perspective is a bit different. To each his own.

    • You didn’t answer the question of getting back up stream twice. Why take a raft if you can hike along the shore – makes no sense to me, but, as you said, ” Every ones perspective is a bit different. To each his own.” – JDA

      • Also the poem says, “The end is ever drawing nigh.” Seems like the parking place to me. Then he says, “There’ll be no paddle up your creek, Just heavy loads and water high.” – Why a raft up a “no paddle creek, heavy loads and water high”? Justr curious as to your thinkoin’ – JDA

        • JDA sorry not going to give you all of the solve. Just trying to get people to think his trip that afternoon may not have been walking the total trip to his hiding spot and completely back to his car. Two short trips to the waters edge, then a longer easy float across or down slow water, easily paddled back. Again he said, no paddle up your creek. simply meaning paddling up a creek will not get you to the tc.

          • I am 99% certain he did not take a raft. One of the quote-masters can find this, but someone asked once: (paraphrasing): did you do anything other than walk. Forrest says: if the all the evidence were known, and I said yes, you would think I was prevaricating. And if I said no, you would say I was quibbling.

            Break that down. If all the evidence was known. Ok, so let’s pretend we “know” he took the raft. But if he says yes, we sure as heck wouldn’t say he was prevaricating.

            It’s my belief, that quote lets us know that once Fenn left his car, he used no other mode of transportation. However, he may have crawled, waded, walked on his hands, rolled down a hill, but absolutely did not take a horse, trolley, raft, or other means of transportation other than by his own human volition.

            Just my opinion. There are smarter people than me here.

          • I just visualized Forrest frolicking through the forest with the TC and then rolling down a hill to hide it. My kids would be all over that if that was a necessary mode of transportation to reach the treasure.

            Rolling down hill => Must have fun while retrieving Indulgence.

            Thank you Karl, I like your points overall but loved that visual the most.

      • I never said any thing about stream, but lake, pond, or slow moving water. Just one trip across and one back to the take out/put in. I have gun hunted, bow hunted and fished, Missouri, Alabama, Canada, and Colorado, each with its own set of Challenges. I sense that water is a barrier, that’s why there is no human paths close by. Trail Heads are human paths, so you can disregard them as close by the tc.

        • OK, so we disregard the “No paddle creek – the Heavy Loads and Water high” and replace them with a lake, pond, or slow moving water – Interesting.

          Then you say, “Just one trip across and one back to the take out/put in” – but didn’t Forrest say two trips? So, are
          you saying that you are just adding a raft trip between “the END place” and the no paddle etc? – That once on the “far shore” – THEN Forrest did his two hikes? Are you adding the lake to match your solve, or did the poem lead you there? – Just askin’ JDA

  14. All FF said, was that he made 2 trips to his car that afternoon, never said both trips was all the way to the hiding place. FF said to not to take everything so literally, this means to use your imagination as if you were walking around in his shoes and his head. I learned along time ago, getting to focused will let you miss the obvious sometimes, apparently this has happened to some searchers already. So till next summer when I get to search my two possible solves. I may be not even close. I have a lot of training and experience in analyzing information. Both in written and spoken terms. I have been very successful developing these skills over the years. So FF and his poem is a good challenge for me. I enjoy the research and the twist and turns following the clues to complete the puzzle, and I don’t mean crossword puzzle. Follow the bread crumbs, but stay alert. and know anything is possible when it comes to dealing with people.

    • Hi Greg: any solution is fine, so long as you can reconcile it with this:

      “Dear Mr. Fenn, Once you hid the treasure, did you take the exact same route in reverse to return to your car? Thank you. ~ Tyler Y.”

      “Yes I did Tyler, it was the most direct route. f”

    • Greg, you need to read some more before going out. One trip with the chest and another one with the contents. If any other type of transportation was involved, there will be no need for two trips.

    • greg ~’ All FF said, was that he made 2 trips to his car that afternoon, never said both trips was all the way to the hiding place.’

      Well, he kinda did when he said he took the contents first then the chest on the second trip. Told us he had to make two trip because it was to heavy .. 42lb. {summarizing different comments stated over the years, but the exact comments can be found}
      Point is two trips were needed, to hide, for all the contents [ 22 troy lbs of gold and stones]… and the weight of the chest. Otherwise, how do you get it all in one place?

      • Again if you could post the video source where he said that I would appreciate it. I heard him say, he made 2 trips to his car that afternoon, because it was heavy. That would be especially true if he had a raft and the backpack with the treasure. Remember there is no human path to follow, so I doubt that he walked more then a mile with 21 lbs or 42 lbs over rough ground. I just believe he had a method other then walking into the wilderness for a great distance, and he wanted a barrier so it would not be stumbled upon by some tourist, but by some one following the clues.

        • gs,

          I totally agree with Seeker, F made two trips from his car. The first trip was with the gold and jewels, the second trip was the chest, in that exact order.

          How about using tarryscant.com and enter “two trips” This is a very good site to do research.

          Just Say’n

          • Thanks for the suggestion, I have been to tarryscant.com and there is a lot of reading there. Picking thru all the distorted BS. I understand very few people are going to up any part of their solve or clues. So I try to stick to the poem, maps, and direct quotes from FF, where I can hear his phraseology, off the cuff. He has been interviewed so many times many of the answers are nearly the same. He also likes to drift to different stories to keep from giving up anymore clues then what he has already done.

        • Greg,

          Normally I have some info at the ready, this one comment I don’t. However, we have chewed it up and spit it out so many time in conversations… it shouldn’t be hard to locate. Even your post is slightly off, you said you heard him stay; ‘he made 2 trips to his car that afternoon, because it was heavy.’

          Those [ to start with ] were separate comments. only later did he combine them in other comments, Q&A’s etc. He first answered he made two trips from his car, and may have added in one afternoon, then he later stated, he walked less than a few miles, then stated, which items he took first and second. Then stated, he followed the clues when he hid the chest, also said in a Q&A, there’s no other way to his knowledge [ following clues ]

          My point is; there is more than one comment or Q&A or interview involved with the process that fenn tells us he took or did… you really need to look this stuff up, because it wasn’t stated all at once. And might I add; try and find the source of each ATF… don’t take my word or anyone else. There have been some very bad misquoting done by others, and you should check it out for yourself.
          Dal has many of them on this site, Media page, Forrest speaks etc etc. At the bottom of each page there’s a list of others; Mysterious Writings has a ton of them, JCM [ also at the bottom of the page and books by searchers ] as collected the most accurate information around w/ updates [ imo ]. Tarryscant as many as well…

          Ya just have to take the time and look…

    • Read the last line of this quote: Question posted 6/9/2014:
      Forrest,
      You said in the past that the chest is not in a dangerous place; yet searchers are searching along Cliffside’s, raging water, and other seemingly dangerous places. Could you please elaborate or qualify your statement in which you said” The chest is not in a dangerous place”
      Thanks
      Edward
      Edward, thanks for the question.
      The treasure is not hidden in a dangerous place in the normal definition of the word, realizing that there probably is no place on this planet that is safe under all conditions. Bloggers have quoted me as saying that a child could walk up to the treasure. I don’t think that’s an accurate quote because a three year old girl would have a problem without some help. Remember, I was about 80 when I hid the chest, and had to make two trips”.f

      You say: “never said both trips was all the way to the hiding place.” Sure sounds to me like he went all the way to the hiding place. I suggest a bit more research my friend – JDA

    • Seems no one has yet mentioned this one:
      “… I made two trips from my car to the hiding place and it was done in one afternoon.f”
      Full context here: mysteriouswritings.com/questions-with-fenn/questions-with-fenn-archive-1/

      Enjoy.
      Joe

      • Hi Joe;

        Look in the archives Joe, It has been discussed until it was blue in the face. What is there that you want to discuss?
        1) He parked his car somewhere.
        2) He had to walk to the “Hidey hole”
        3) He was 79 or 80 so path walked could not have been too hard nor too far.
        4) He made two trips in one afternoon (12:00 – maybe 6:00 PM)
        5) Man can walk 2 – 3 MPH (at 79 or 80 pick the low end???)
        6) NOT in VERY close proximity to a human trail – So, part of
        trip was off-trail.
        7) Some time at site needed to transfer goodies back into chest and then secret the chest.
        8) Took a sandwich (maybe) Took time to eat it and enjoy the view (maybe) ???
        9) Returned to car laughing, and asking himself “Did I really do that?” (or something like that.
        10) Is asked about alternate mode of travel and does not answer directly – Just confuses the issue.
        11) Says he could have just taken a bike and thrown it in the Water High.

        So, where are we? This SEEMS to be all that we know, or think that we know.

        General consensus is that the hike is between 1/2 mile and a “few” miles – probably no more than 4 – 5. but probably less than 5.

        Thar is all I have put together – What are your thoughts Joe? – JDA

        • JDA,
          My comment was relevant to this comment from the top of this thread:
          “All FF said, was that he made 2 trips to his car that afternoon, never said both trips was all the way to the hiding place.”

          Since it had not been mentioned here, I made the comment as an FYI to Greg and to rebut his comment. I’m sure many of the comments alluded to or quoted above have been discussed ad nauseum.

          One meaning of “rebut” is “to oppose by contrary proof.” Of course, “proof” in The Chase is elusive and what we all seek, but I believe F’s “two trips from my car to the hiding place” is in stark contrast and an appropriate response to Greg’s “never said both trips [were] all the way to the hiding place” – but that’s merely my opinion.

          Joe

          • Joe, if we go by his statement it is true that he could have made two trips from his car to a place with an alternate mode of transportation. He could have taken the mode of transportation with him on one of the trips as well A boat, a bike? Doesn’t seem that likely but he does leave the window open for that possibility.

  15. FF clearly states only where an 80 year old would go alone, and no steep inclines. FF himself said not to search in dangerous places, like mines, tunnels or caves. I have watched hours of his different videos, be safe during the search is his basic instruction.

  16. Thanks to Jda for the audio post of FF, one for the contents and the second for the chest. But J A Kraven post where FF was asked if there was more then one mode of transportation in Hiding the treasure, he again repeated 2 trips to put it in, but hedged on whether he used some other mode then walking to hid it. The poem is to get a searcher there, that does not mean he followed the exact same route to hide it. He said, he knew for a long time where he wanted to hide it. There may be a shortcut that is differs from the poem, that he only knows about?

    • Greg ~’But J A Kraven post where FF was asked if there was more then one mode of transportation in Hiding the treasure, **he again repeated 2 trips to put it in,** but hedged on whether he used some other mode then walking to hid it.’

      “Edgar, your wording of the question prompts me to pause and wonder if I can answer it candidly, yet correctly. Were all the evidence truly known, and I answered in the positive, you might say I was prevaricating, by some definitions of the word. And if I answered in the negative, you may claim that I was quibbling. So I will stay quiet on that subject. Thanks for the question anyway. f”

      *he again repeated 2 trips to put it in,** I don’t see where he stated this in the answer. It’s not wise to add something that just isn’t there. imo

      **but hedged on whether he used some other mode then walking to hid it.’** I don’t seen an answer to the question at all… he implied; if he answered one way some would think this [or that], If he answered another way, they would think this [or that]… so he’s not answering.

      • I’ll add a thought, Greg.
        Personally, “put in” seems to mean dock or reach land. All depending on which definition someone want to use… to put a boat into water seems more like a launching.

        So, If we begin it where… the term “put in” could mean at WWH, line of thinking. Because “put in” can mean ‘Interrupt.’
        If WWH is meant as waters that are interrupted is some manner [ like a change in movement ]… the “put in” could mean hoB is very close to WWWH or Just below WWHalt or water that are interrupted in some form.

        Basically saying; no need to get into the waters that ‘halt, or “put in” at WWH you need to be below whatever hoB refers to -and- Not Far, [ after that interruption / halting of the waters ]. Take it in the canyon down might be where the waters go, but that’s too far to walk.
        fenn may only be “describing” where hoB is; at or near WWH and not far away, but the waters keep ‘going’ an that’s too far to follow. “Halt” and “Put In” may have more in common then most would like to think.

        Just food for thought….

        • Seeker, WW waters H, plural being a key. The warm waters instantly becomes cold. TIITCD, NTF, not exact, but in the area, but, put in below the hoB, 3 hints here, put it, as launch or to beach a water craft to load or unload, h not being capitalized, but B is. No doubt hoB can be argued many ways. NPFM not a dangerous place, but a place some might shy away from. EIEDN as being pulled along. If you don’t stop at the end on the left, you wont be able to paddle backup your creek. Also at the end heavy loads create, water high. This is where boots on the ground starts for me, for this is where all the given clues so far appear to lead. From this point you need to be there to verify the rest of the clues. There have been many searchers that have been wrong, and it is ok if I am wrong too. Not the end of the world as some people seem to think. The chances of finding it first time out is small, but one never knows till one tries. Then plan B, backup and do it again with what you learned the first time. It is like life, you can take it too serious or have fun with it. Some are concerned about there being smart people trying to solve this. I have learned there are all kinds of different smarts in this world. But have the right combination of smarts is what’s important. I truly hope some one finds it, so they can give FF his bracelet back he thinks so much of.

    • Darn Greg;

      Do some research before making statements that can be disproved in an instant.

      You say: “The poem is to get a searcher there, that does not mean he followed the exact same route to hide it.” This quote says the exact opposite:

      Question posted 6/20/2014:
      I have a question for Mr. Fenn:
      When you hid your treasures, did you take the same path that is described in the poem, or were you able to skip some of the steps because of your familiarity with the area?
      Thank you Curtis
      The clues should be followed in order Curtis. There is no other way to my knowlege”.f

      Please Greg. Take your pack off, do a bit of research, and THEN come up with a solve. It can NOT be done in a few days. There is no hurry. You probably have all winter – Just a bit of advice from an OLD searcher who once thought it could be solved in a few days. I am now going on 34 months. Some have worked on it for 8 years – Just sayin’ – JDA

    • Hi Greg,

      There might be a short cut (or “long” cut depending upon how you look at it) to the hiding place long time ago used by Indians, and Fenn might have used it, but I don’t think there is a short cut now. If you’re brave enough you may be able to make one yourself.

      Zaphod73491 quoted the following in his comment earlier. “Dear Mr. Fenn, Once you hid the treasure, did you take the exact same route in reverse to return to your car? Thank you. ~ Tyler Y.”

      “Yes I did Tyler, it was the most direct route. f”

      And I’d like to add the following idea, what if it was the ONLY route when FF hid his chest, and the same route is the ONLY route when he’s coming back to his car?

      Also you said that “I sense that water is a barrier, that’s why there is no human paths close by. Trail Heads are human paths, so you can disregard them as close by the tc.” But your quote is not 100% right. Fenn said “There isn’t a human trail in VERY close proximity to where I hid the treasure.” You missed the very important word “VERY”, which means that there could BE a human trail in close proximity to where Fenn hid the treasure.

      You see what I’m getting at? IMO there is a human trail close up to the hiding place of the TC, but not VERY close, which also means that humans can get to the treasure chest very close (I mean within only a few feet), but don’t know that they are so close to it. I think Fenn is very smart in hiding his chest, right under everyone’s nose.

      This is my two cents anyway.

      — MajinKing

    • A hiking shortcut wouldn’t affect a good solve.

      The last time FF parked a motor vehicle before hiding the TC where it now
      is, he may have chosen to park in a substantially different spot, compared to where he might expect someone with a perfect solve to park. All IMO.

  17. Yes he leaves the door wide open, skip, run, crawl, pulled or dragged. Did he follow the instructions in the poem to get to the hide, or is that just for searchers. Did he take a different route then the poem suggest?

    • Greg: “To answer some questions and save others from being asked, I did follow the clues in the poem when I hid the treasure chest, although I hid it before the poem was complete. (Completed?) f”

      • Thanks, I recall you saying you rewrote the poem several times to get the words just right. But I also recall you saying you knew for a longtime where you wanted to hide it. But life has showed many times over there is always more then one way to get there. I would not lose any respect for you if at 80 you had to an easier route to hide it then the directions in the Poem. This has been going on since 2009-2010 and much has been written in many sources. and hours of video. I am very grateful for the challenge, since I am living a simple life in Aguachica, Colombia. A small town with limit activities, and I am the only American living here. Both my parents are gone and we are taking care of her parents, which is important to her. The mail service is non- existent, so I can not get things by mail. The UPS depot is in Bogota and that is a 12 hour bus trip one way. So I am doing as you said, the Poem, a good map and some online search are my tools. Maybe next summer we will get to come to the states so my wife can meet my family, and take 30 days to follow the clues. It will give me a chance to show my wife the grandness of our great country. God Bless

      • by Jenny Kile · August 13, 2018
        Dear Mr. Fenn, Once you hid the treasure, did you take the exact same route in reverse to return to your car?”
        Thank you. ~ Tyler Y.

        Yes I did Tyler, it was the most direct route. f Forrest seems to agree – JDA

  18. I don’t encourage anyone to assume that the small place where FF parked a sedan last — before transporting the trove to its present hidey place — is where a searcher should park.

      • Hi Greg,

        You mentioned that NO one here has solved the poem. I’m reminding you that NOBODY EVER has solved the poem. If anybody did, the chase might have ended already, unless the searcher who has solved the poem and found the chest decided not to publish the finding in public.

        I forgot to mention one thing in my previous comment. In my current solve there is only one mode of transportation, walking, is needed from below HOB all the way to the hiding place of the chest.

        — MajinKing

        • Hi Mking, one of things in the poem is the line at the end, I give you title to the gold. Sounds to me as it will be necessary to contact ff or his trust to collect the gold. He says the key is in the box, is the title the key? He says when the finder opens the box he will laugh. Did he do that to protect ownership rights to the treasure? This would give good cause for the last stanza, and completion of the puzzle.

          • Greg,
            I believe this line may be regarded as legal jargon if the ownership of the chest was tested by the courts. There are 3 or 4 lines that could be used for legal purposes to build a case for how the chest could be vested for ownership. I do not it think applies to a trust or other financial vehicle regarding ownership or where the gold is actually secured. IMO
            Fenn said “….And if you can find the treasure chest, you can have it.” and I believe he means exactly what he says with that quote.

        • It’s optional what transportation to use in most of one’s search trip.
          I prefer to drive, substantially from the “put in” place to the thing
          that I’m treating as a “creek”. Good luck to you. All IMO.

  19. I think we tend to give the nine clues, a kind of chiseled in stone, hard facts persona. Because that kind of thinking, provides a sense of security, a sense of tangibility, some thing that we can hang on to. But, maybe the nine clues, paint a more subtle picture, something more in the realm of imagination. In TTOTC, on page 136, he quotes Millay’s poem. “Safe upon the solid rock the ugly houses stand: Come and see my shining palace built upon the sand” He says “that’s where I’m most comfortable”. Some place lacking, a sense of security, predictability, and tangibility.

    • I like that you bring this up James. Thinking about various imaginative ways to solve this thing is not wasteful thinking. Keep at it.

    • James, FF has lived a lot of his life out on the edge, as have I. Those who have lived that way don’t find much life in 100% security. We need a challenge something to look forward to wind our rubber band, for the next exciting thing to come along. Sometimes we find it necessary to go as far to create something exciting, if we are not being challenged in away that stimulates us. As FF would say it makes us weird to some people. We like the KIS principle, but we want to make it real.

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