Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Seventy One


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650 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Seventy One

  1. I just caught up after reading about 100 emails.

    Most of it was ordinary, but there were at least a couple of interesting thoughts or ideas.

    The home of Brown relates to water, but not trout, I think was one.

    Here is a suggestion. If you, as a chaser, come to a conclusion, and then, another chaser draws the same conclusion, but the other guy used a bible, I would rethink my conclusion.

    • Mr. Nutz-

      Here’s a suggestion. If you don’t want to know the solution to the poem, or if you cant believe religion would be the final solution, Quit the chase now! Save yourself the pain.

      I cant make this stuff up. I am just not that smart. The pieces fit together much like an interlocking jigsaw puzzle. No…Nope… Nada Lutz. It is hardly unlikely ANY MAN facing their mortality would consider religion.

      It’s too bad you don’t seem to know the truth…
      “The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone”.. Sometime maybe over a beer, I’ll tell you how I helped them find cornerstone of the Capitol for the 200th anniversary. No nevermind. That would involve George Washington’s religious beliefs…nevermind

      Lutz…You’re lost. Come with me brother…
      …..I’m traveling East.

      Merry Christmas
      Billy and Katie

      • ff..has told me over and over…its out there…..waiting to be found…..and that you must read the book and the poem ….over and over…
        to figure him out.

          • ” …the world, people, countries, cities… churches learning that lesson. Leave other people alone. I don’t care what you believe unless to try and jam it down my throat… you can believe what you want, I’m gonna believe what I want to…
            What’s wrong with that?”


        • Wow. I love that interview. Respect. With the perfect definition. Awesome Forrest. I’ve known you’ve had a special place in your heart for me , and you’ve seen my story. Only you would understand why people can’t figure out why I am so happy. Love Life people. And do the best you can,……a few of you know I’ve been through the ringer a few times lately ( no Forrest, I don’t mean telephone, arr arr ) ….but with laying my heart out to a 72 year old woman with cancer , a broken hip and living in the cab of her truck. She too had been staying at the house the RV that I called home the 2 prior winters.
          All my friends have been family. We have all known each other for 40 – 50 years. My friend Bill that has the RV , also now has brain cancer and is on his death bed. Taking morphine and other medications , he hasn’t been quite all there. This is when the talking started. I wasn’t allowed on the property , not even to see Marion, the woman I was helping. Soon the rumor circle turned on her because she was seeing me. I did my best to help her out. Her cancer is now in her lungs, so she thought it best not to drag me into it and broke things off. Sacha, thank you so much. I was SO exited to tell her about the house. That was the last time I saw her. So, I am back to “plan K” , ( yes Forrest , I mean plank….Que?) WHICH happens to be not far, “but to far to walk the plank”. Meaning I’m tempting fate and carrying out my plans to ride out winter in New Mexico. The BMW is as solid as a wet noodle, Washington is dark, wet , cold, windy, nasty expensive and over regulated. Did I leave anything out Dal ? I have chains, a new propane stove and a UV flashlight. I’m wise “that” way, que? I even have a new theory on where to put tin. Would you believe I found a bottle of Grapette soda , 6 oz from 1946. You can still read the writing , “bottled in Pueblo and San Antonio” . I gotta’ wonder how that one got there….aye Forrest? So here I am . Doing the best I can ….singing “Them Forrest Fenn Blues”…..( Forrest seriously, I need your permission for the song)….on my way down the highway. Jammie, Cynthia, Sacha and Forrest, I hope to see you all soon. Peace.

          • OH NO! Mr. Sullivan–

            You sir are the person I fear the most in beating me to the cache. Are you sure you want to spend the winter in New Mexico? Pot is legal in Colorado and maybe you could enhance your though processes by stopping there for a few months. There are so many different types and different cultivars. If I were you I think I would try them all. Your never know which one might give you the insight you need. Rocky mountain high (I think)

            Think it over carefully;

            1f Billy

          • I hope to see you soon too Seattle! Question, when you move here, will you change your name? Maybe Santa Fe Sullivan? 😉 Be safe…awaiting your arrival!

          • Good to hear from ya Seattle Sullivan….. be safe on the road my friend… hey did ya save the bottle of grapette soda? SS, Tell the New Mexico crew hi for me k… until next time.. see ya my friend

          • Seattle…
            Well…”home” comes to mind. So I assume you are suggesting that “dark, wet , cold, windy” are bad things…

            Well Santa Fe should get you away from the dark and wet issues…but cold and windy, nasty expensive and over regulated are not likely to be solved by moving to Santa Fe…in my opinion…

      • Sherif –

        You don’t get it. You don’t even seem to read what I write.

        One person comes to a conclusion, like WWWH is Mammoth Springs, through numerology. Another comes to it because Fenn said look at the Big Picture. Since one must have come to this conclusion incorrectly, both MUST be wrong.

        Your inclusion of a Bible verse is the PROOF that anyone drawing the same same conclusion is wrong.

        Among my many fields of college study is world religions with a focus on the Bible. So here is a question. How would you have any idea which version of the Bible Fenn knows?

        I will spare you the answer. He really strongly dislikes when people push it on him. Really, very strongly.

        • Lugnutz,
          Might I add that FF has specifically stated that bible verses wont help. I dont think that anything outside of a comprehensive study of geography would help at all. We have been told that all we need is in the poem. As much as I personally read the bible, it isnt in the poem.

          • Well, now, wait a minute, Flu, you can’t say the Bible’s not in the poem. In line one, take the first two letters of “alone” and in line two, the word “my” and the first letter of the word “treasures.” What does that spell? Al-my-t.

          • Linda,
            I love the bible. Truly I do. I even teach Sunday School. But your
            “Al-my-t” is put together with random letters from other words. FF said the words mean what they say. So since FF has said that bible verses wont help and that the words mean what they say, I believe him.

          • Actual Forrest apparently has a lot of tea as noted by discussion’s on his tea with Olga (or was that her tea?)

          • Hi Flutter: I’m sure Linda was joking. I think there needs to be a font that is the equivalent of (bracket-begin) sarcasm followed by /sarcasm. 😉

          • I believe to each his own, if that makes them happy, fine. I have come to a peace with God, and I only share the details it if asked. If bible speaks to him, fine. He should not expect everyone else to jump on the band wagon. God bless everyone.

        • Mr. Nutz

          I ‘came to it’ because of the statement “look at the big picture”. And while looking… God spoke to me. I believe f heard as well since he did such a splendid job recreating it!

          A possible answer to your question: his dog tag says- Baptist

        • Didnt F sa, “all you need is the poem and a good map.” No mention that you need any version of Bibles.

        • Well….
          .I am so sorry that so many will be disappointed to learn the conclusion. I have only ever seen one other searcher in the area of my solution. I wondered why that was, and now I know……(BTW, the bible is a historical book…not a building nor is anyone trying to force religion upon you. It’s history and those who don’t study history, will be forced to repeat it…ie Action T4 and hospice)

          I know, if we are lucky enough to find it, we’ll empty the chest and refill it with chocolate gold coins and pieces and lumps of brass, and then re-hide it along the Madison. That way people aren’t disappointed and they can say they had the solution all along!

          Just me…whistling past the graveyard..


          • “the bible is a historical book…not a building nor is anyone trying to force religion upon you. It’s history and those who don’t study history, will be forced to repeat it”

            A few questions come to mind immediately…

            “not a building”, curious why you chose that as a not reference.

            ” It’s history and those who don’t study history, will be forced to repeat it” …are you saying that if we don’t study the bible we will be forced to repeat it?

          • Billy, If I didn’t know any better, I would say you drank a lot more than 3/16 of a pint of libation.

            If I were you, I would take my money for my next search trip and put it in the basket at church and then hit the confession booth.

          • Mr. Jake-

            You mentioned “basket” which of course the definition of canasta. There’s a nice picture of f holding an expensive basket. What may I ask do you know of Canasta 404? Why would Fenn care?

            (Warning to Lutz: Don’t…I repeat don’t look it up)


          • Sherif

            I am going to add something else here.

            One semester in college we studied the Bible purely from the perspective of history. The idea was see what we could learn by using the Bible to read about the history of people in that part if the world.

            Here’s the non good news. It’s not history. There are historical texts beginning before the time of Jesus and then contemporary to His time.

            Are you aware of that? I wasn’t until that semester.

        • Hold on there Jake. I.M.O., “and I’m right”…..both religion and the “big picture” are one in the same. …..let me explain. What is virtually the last sentence in TTOTC? ” We can meet at the great banQUEt table of history …..” meaning THE LAST SUPPER TABLE. The area I search can be seen seen on Google Earth. In fact, what I had been calling the BLAZE, has a banquette table and 2 CHASE lounge chairs, that you can see on high re”solution”….which sounds awfully close to the inside covers re”solve” . BUT, it’s the TABLE. Think . Each community is a part of the table. There is a Table top, Pillars, Pedestals, the Wood and The Ritual. Forrest likes Purple. I asked him over lunch last April. He said it was one of his favorite colors . Priests wear Purple around Easter….The Last Supper time. But I will save you the trouble. Forrest has said it is not under any thing man made. Hmmmmm………

          • And I gotta wonder bout’ you guys….look, CANASTA is a anagram of petacAS TANK A……one of many in the TAN QUE ARAY…….be Gin ? Anyone remember Forrest’s story about the array of tanks in the Sahara?

          • Seattle,
            So youre saying, having lunch with Fenn was a religious experience? LOL
            Did he say grace before you guys took a bite? Hahaha
            The easter bunny is waiting for you down that bible hole.

          • I agree Idle,
            I feel closer to our maker when in nature than in a church or reading a bible.

    • I also do not see Mr. Forrest as using the bible to pinpoint a location on the map and i think he kinda said that somewhere. As usual, i am at a loss for a source SO consider that as my opinion at this point.

      That said, however, there should always be a consideration for religious influences to impact a fellas thoughts when on the brink of meeting his maker. Especially, when almost anything in this chase could be possible.

      Ya’ll take care. 🙂

      • There are lots of words in the poem. There are lots of words in the Bible. Some of these may coincidentally cross at the same point. If they did, Mr Fenn might say that Bible verses are not part of the solve, in order to not have someone use the Bible in an unintended solve. Just suppose that he was careful to say “Bible verses” and not “The Bible” or “Books of the Bible”. What I am talking about is googling three words: “treasure”, “secret” and “riches”. You get Isaiah 45:3, a Bible verse. It has nothing to do with a hint, true to Mr Fenn’s word. However, looking at the bigger picture, the whole book of Isaiah, gives “Mt Zion” over and over again. That could be a coincidence. An unintended coincidence. But that does not rule it out as a possibility. Because the grave of Buffalo Bill Cody is within the scope of the possible vague hints in TTOTC. (buffalo bull Cody death)

        • I just love that verse in Isaiah…45:3
          And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou Mayes know that I, the Lord, which call thee by thy name, AM the GOD of Israel.
          Mt. ZION
          Looking at the BIG picture…i

      • What FF said was:” I am not a religious person but I am the most spiritual person you’ll meet. I believe there is a higher being out there .” FF Loves the American Indian, and they themselves believe the Rocky Mountains holds the spirit of their ancestors. FF may or may not have used a bible but I can promise that the poem is partially spiritual.
        Maybe you should work on the word that is key. To help you out I will say this: ” The word that is key to help you with the poem is what you should be looking for. Everything else is just a educated guess.”

        • Ah…..the word that is key. Now, did Forrest actually say it was IN the poem ? No . But as long as we are talking “Holy Spirits”….then Y is IT , WH is KEY . Part of the solution is a play on the words of “spirits”. TANQUERAY = BE GIN Rushin water = Vodka Y Distill ? (wide is still) Bacardi =Back rd.

      • From SB 62 – APRIL 2014
        Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, BIBLE VERSES, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f


      • I meet my makers every Thanksgiving and Christmas: mom and dad! As for the poem’s correct decipherment, I’ll be surprised and a bit disappointed if bible verses or any element of organized religion plays a part. Forrest’s “church” is in the mountains and streams, not in some stone building on a Sunday morning.

    • Lugz,

      There’s the comment; Bible verses will not assist… lol then again… it also said riddles as well.
      fenn also claims he’s not a religious man, but a spiritual person… So were Native Americans, but not religious in the same sense we think of.

      Personally I think it a stretch to having the bible involved. I mean, from one religion to another, each has different interpretations of most of the bible. LOL you can’t get a Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, Protestant, Jew or born again.. to agree on many parts of the bible…nevertheless from old testament or the newer updated version 2.0.

      Could you imagine the possibility in a 1000 years, there may not be religion in the world? I would have to wonder if fenn was thinking about the poem that far down the road… would he use bible verses or religious chatter of any kind… IDK… but we have those two comments, right?

      • Well, to whom it might concern I looked at a map that showed half of the United States don’t believe in God!
        How sad is that!

        • Martha,

          The Chatter is not about who believes something or doean’t believe, nor should it matter at all.
          The conversation is about a possible connection to a “solution” or not.

          There’s nothing sad, bad, or indifferent… it’s folks inquiring about thought… nothing more.

        • what is sad is that both halves are wrong 🙂 we will look back at this time slice and just shake our collective heads, sort of how we look back at the …. well I shouldn’t pick on any particular favorite brand of the day. Lets just say there are some pretty embarrassing history episodes from (place your belief brand here)

    • This thread is confusing…who is talking about what? I think Lugnutz was pointing out a couple of things and they got twisted around somehow. Umm… okay.

      • Ken and OS2

        The point I was making is that if two people reach the same location having used different methods, both are false.

        This is akin to stumbling upon it.

        I was, in addition, pointing out that two people, the Sherif is one, came to the exact same conclusion. So if you think the Sherif is nuts and he believes the same thing you do…

        • Lug, … a couple minor points to help kill a dead horse: 1) one could reach a correct conclusion by using the correct method and another could have stumbled on it…. a coincidence.
          2) By ‘regrets’, I meant any reference to bible verses is gonna open a can of worms. I did it recently but escaped I think because my post was a reply to an earlier post and the thread ended soon after. I was referencing the word ‘defile’ which has a geographic meaning totally different than the biblical meaning.

        • Lugz

          I kinda agree that if two ‘completely’ different methods draw ‘exactly’ the same conclusion… sumthin’s fishy.

          But I also kinda agree with OS. I mean, when two people are working with mostly the same information… that information also influence an outcome.

          Example; Some think Our Lady of the Rockies are involved. One may see it as the virgin Mary, another may see it as a dedication / blessing to women [ or wife and or daughters ]. One searcher is looking at it as religious involvement because of a cancer scare and goes in that direction collecting what they hope are clue’s answers [ the Virgin Mary side of it ]. The other looks at it slightly different with the care and support of [his] family members, and works the cancer and family side of solve… [ A dedication to love ones ]. Yet both started out with the idea of the cancer being part of the idea to solve the clues. {example only}

          LOL but, I guess in that scenario, they both might be wrong… That structure thing we’re told about.

          • Seeker… I kinda agree as well. Here’s a kicker… What’s *exactly*? Exactly gets the correct solve supposedly, and so far that is a no-go. In those terms folks can surmise *similar* conclusions on some things about maybe one clue, or two maybe from a different perspective…however…they are both *inconclusive* until either correctly makes it to the finish line. In this fashion I tend to believe that Lugs theory has a bunch of holes in it and not really a barn-burner.

          • When I said ‘exactly’ I was only referring to a single reference really.

            Zap came up with a date using some fancy foot work and finagling… and I got the same date by a line in the poem and a short take on a story in the book.
            Even then, he looks at it one way and I have a different take on it. The point is, should the date have any impact on a clue or solve or a completion if the task.. can both methods be correct? or are we both blowing hit air…

            The problem is this; we both have the same information… so from “that information” can there be a ‘suggestive thought’ or ‘influence’ [even with different method] to reach the same conclusion, because of all the Information we have?

            Example; Is only the chest not associated with a structure, or all the clues are not, as well, because they ‘are’ only associated with the chest… it was their sole purpose [clues] to be created in the first place, to be ‘associated’ with the treasure… right?

            However, if someone gets to a clue by a thought that involves a structure, but not really about the structure itself.. is that wrong?
            Example; WhatIF “take IT in the canyon down” is man made stairs [ kinda like the grand canyon in YS ] Is that not a structure?
            It could answer; what “being IT where” might refer to ‘at’ WWH, line of thinking. { this is where you, the searcher, begin going into a canyon from WWH {- the falls } by way of the stairs provided to do just that.
            {example only}

          • Yup… Lugz has presented this *weeding criteria* idea before. It makes some sense(maybe two cents) on the surface in *general* terms. However, until ALL the facts are known its use as a tool is bunk. If no one really knows the correct answers…how can it be said one way or the other and be correct? At best, one could say two ideas are correct, but one is probably faulty because of how they got it…or they are both wrong.

          • Seeker ken and OS2 –

            If Billy thinks the word Cross is important because of a Bible verse. And Bobby thinks the word Cross is important because of game theory they are most likely both wrong.

            It is true that someone could stumble on the treasure and therefore Billy could find it by relying on Psalms.

            It’s just not likely.

            To be honest I find it remarkable that a commenter at HoD would think a Bible solve valid. You have to ignore Fenn a lot more than 15% of the time to think this. I put it on level with believing the TC is in Fenn’s vault or Home.

            I don’t know where the treasure is. I think Zap and Jake have some good ideas as does what’s his name.

          • Thanks Lugz,
            Zap’s not too happy about the key being revealed and we both came to a similar conclusion using different methods.
            Go figure.
            The key is where it’s at.

          • Lugnutz,
            Since neither the bible verse or the game theory are mentioned in the poem (at least I think they aren’t) then neither one of them are significant to the chase IMO.

          • Jake –

            1. For the life of me I cannot believe he said publicly that he was upset. He made it worse.

            2. I am referring to him.

    • Hello lugnutz. If one guy used a bible as his conclusion and the other chaser had the same conclusion but different, then would you please tell me what exactly that conclusion was?

      • Hi Rooster –

        I just provided an example above using the word Cross.

        The point is just that two different solves cannot produce the same correct answer. Someone said they could.

        For you, I would say that if anyone else is at the same spot as you searching and they used a different technique or list of clues you should reconsider your solve and try something else.

        • Hasn’t Forrest said that searchers have been within 200′ and 500′ of Indulgence? How did they get there? By accident? Probably not if they wrote Forrest and told him the location they had been to. Just the fact that they told Forrest says that getting there was deliberate. Did these searchers use identical solutions to get there? – Not likely.

          They must have started at the same WWWH – but did they come to that wwwh using identical logic? Probably not.

          They took the canyon down, NF,BTFTW. Did they use the same logic regarding the “Put-in” place? Maybe.

          They found places that each could interpret as hoB – again I doubt that they used the same logic as to WHY this spot is the hoB – etc. etc. etc.

          Have other people been to my general search area? I sure hope so, since Forrest has said that searchers have been within 200′. They got there using THEIR solve, which I doubt resembles mine. Which SOLVE is correct? Mine or theirs? Who cares? OUR solves are probably quite different than what Forrest had in mind – and that is life, but we all wound up in the same general area.

          If I want to go from Pocatello to Los Angeles, there are a number of ways to get there. Some shorter than others, some more scenic. Which is the RIGHT way to go? It depends on what you see as a priority. True, there may be only one WAY to get from wwwh to Indulgence but there may be many different decision points, made for different reasons that still allow the searcher to reach the final goal – JMO – JDA

          • Or they never knew how close they were to begin with, and went down said canyon.
            Did understand clue 2, made up something for clue 3, all while attempting to stomp to clue 4.

            Well, depending on how one looks at the clues in order…

        • Lugz,
          The question that needs asking is; are all the clues solved / deciphered in the same manner of thought?
          Marrying the clues to a map is just that… but you need them deciphered first to do that… right?

          For example; someone thinks WWH is a waterfall. It’s not a difficult conclusion from a story in the book.. right?
          Yet, another may uses the definition of halt; a temporary change… { direction of the waters }
          It might be a guess on both ideas… yet if the actual deciphered clue that involves a waterfall, you have to ask one question. Which method was correct and will that method work for all clues?
          Call it the book vs. word’s meanings. if ya like, for the example.
          The point is… both readers used information that has been talked about by fenn in one form or another… But, do all the clues involve have the same method of thought for deciphering???

          I personally don’t think the bible can help, yet you can see how some would jump to that conclusion… NPFTM, the meek shall inherit the earth?

          Let’em “believe” what they want… you’re not changing anyone’s mind on that topic…

          • Seeker,
            Yes, if all of the clues are solved the same way wouldn’t one of the people who got the first two clues have applied the same methods to the rest of the poem and found the chest? There is a little bit of wiggle room for a different explanation, but it strongly points toward different ways being needed to solve different parts of the poem.

          • JW: concur. If the same methodology unlocked all 9 clues, once the first two were figured out the rest would fall like dominoes. Forrest said he spent 15 years, off and on, working on the poem, crafting it, carefully selecting each word. Surely he would have known what would happen if all clues were based on the same system, and therefore would have mixed it up a bit.

        • Every clue has a bit of a different twist, no one solve for all the clues. No crosswords, sudoku, math equations, or bible verses. You have to know how the man, ff works and thinks. He wants to know if your paying attention to the instructions, and make simple adjustments. He doesn’t like hardcore rules. If you don’t have the first clue nailed down, you can not solve the rest, you got nothing. You can not solve a clue in the middle or at the end by itself to get to the starting point. Every clue must marry the map.

          • Greg,
            I see what you are saying. And I agree that each clue is a different creative way of looking at a step in the search. However; I remain convinced that all the steps are related to one another.

  2. Im entertained by the fact that I have located a less common use for the term “put in” that has nothing to do with water. Im rather surprised that after 8 years, Ive never seen anyone mention this use of the term. But, then I also have a couple of other words which have definitions nobody seems to be aware of. Maybe Forrest is right that we really should learn the definitions of words. IMO

    Shout out to Lady V ! Thanks for all your efforts with the Camp Fire and other disasters. The world needs more people like you!

    • Flutter…..
      Could you espouse upon your “put in” definition please? Some of my clients in the jail sometimes mention “putting out”. I am wondering if your definition of “put in” is somehow related to “putting out” and help me understand what they are talking about. Could it be that the person “putting out” would be on the receiving end the the person “Putting in”? What do you think?

      (Dal …Don’t do it….I’ll be quiet …until xmas)

      Merry Christmas
      1f Billy

      • Tis the season for giving…

        I am not sure if that is Flutterby’s definition but potty humor in general would definitely be pertinent to a 13 year old boy and multiple lines of the poem can be seen from that perspective (thankfully Forrest eliminated outhouses). Though this particular usage might be beyond many youths’ potty humor vocabulary.

        Merry Christmas

        • Idle Dreamer,
          Im not even going to respond to Sheriff Billy. Potty humor, in my opinion, is not humor!

          I read the poem differently than many. The term “put in” has a meaning that fits my reading of the poem.

          • Flutterby,

            Put in could easily be a place to stop after coming down in elevation from the canyon, much like a landing point. It could be at the point to make a decision to go straight or left or right. The tell (clue) is *From there * it’s no place for the meek,” this helps in what direction to go.

            For me “put in” as nothing to do with nautical or aerial terms.

            Just Say’n

          • If I had to guess, not that you want me to and I probably am wrong, but your “put in” most likely is related to entering a fen/bog area which would set you up nicely for HOB and peat.

            Mostly I am curious if you are using a definition that doesn’t fit the concept of entering something.

            As for potty humor, I believe/imo the reason Forrest crafted the poem was to ensure it had plenty of ambiguity so that each person could see it differently. The key being that for one person, someone whose thought process is similar to Mr. Fenn but can adjust, they could correctly decipher the poem and reach the chest. Essentially a vetting process with multiple layers designed to weed out those minds that don’t fit the bill. This is of course a guess, especially the vetting process, but I do believe the person whose mind is closer to Forrest is more likely to get farther in the chase. I also wouldn’t be surprised that if I could combine a few key people on this blog that juxtaposition would probably lead to a winning combination. Which, on a side note, is one reason Aaron’s new website probably worries people because if he got the right combination he probably could get a winning solve.

            All in the opinion of a kook who cooks.

            Funny note: If you Google “kook” I got this:
            –a crazy or eccentric person.–
            Which begs the question, why the “or”?

          • Idle D,

            I don’t beleive it has anything to do with entering something or placing something in a container, etc.

            There is no doubt that other’s thoughts are different. I’m not even trying to enter into F’s mind or think like him which would be impossible.

          • “There is no doubt that other’s thoughts are different. I’m not even trying to enter into F’s mind or think like him which would be impossible.”

            Thus the nature of ambiguous thought. An aside, I am not sure if this is a valid Einstein quote, but here it is:

            “A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.” -Albert Einstein

            If the blaze represents a problem/riddle, perhaps the wise part of finding the blaze is that we need to avoid it in order to correctly take the chest and go.

            As for me, I know I don’t think like Forrest, but we all can put ourselves in his shoes through his stories. Impossible is just a word for what we think we can’t do until we try, and fail or succeed, the goal was always just to keep trying. If you add leaving others alone you can possibly earn Forrest’s respect.

            All imo of course.

          • I did too, that is why I realized I should have included the link in the first comment.

            I think one of the most fundamental from that page (in regards to the chase imo) is this quote:

            “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.” -Albert Einstein

            The commentary doesn’t seem to grasp that everything complex can be broken down into simple parts (This is a fundamental for me when it comes to solving math equations). The catch is that one can easily keep breaking it down into meaningless nonsense so the challenge is to find the edge between the two. Of course, hopefully I explained that simply enough…

          • Idle, one of the reasons for creating the sit was just as you said. I believe it may take the right combination of minds, and ways of thinking to solve this thing. A logical thinker, imaginative thinking, etc.

          • CharlieM,
            Im glad Im not the only one not trying to think like FF. I also think it is impossible.

          • Idle Dreamer,
            My “put in” is not referring to entering a fen or bog”. Though that was a good guess. In fact, it doesnt have me entering anything. But that is all Im sharing about it right now

          • CharlieM,
            I will agree with your statement that “put in” has nothing to do with nautical or awrial terms. IMO

        • Hey Ken-

          Thanks for askin..
          My leg is getting better. Now I walk like Chester on the TV series Gunsmoke…”I’m a comin..Marshal Dillion”

          I wouldn’t pull anyone’s finger or leg for that matter…

          This is serious business. Ken-…Don’t you find it odd that there is an (Pony) Ault, Colorado or a Clovis (point), New Mexico? (There are hundreds of others.) It is Mr. f that is PLAYING all of us.

          No…No…he never gives out any hints in his prepared stories. Nope Nada!.

          Wait.. Remember him referring to his wonderful collection of chordage shaped like a football? Maybe the teacher is trying to teach us trigonometry. No say it is not true! I thought he failed in school.

          (I personally believe he is trying to draw the 64 point star of Bethlehem)
          Ok Dal. I just couldn’t help myself. I’m done until after Christmas.

          Merry Christmas to all;

          1f Billy and Deputy Katie, secret agents Brando and Joe, and of course “the boys”.

      • IMO “put in” = “park your car”

        when I was a kid, my grandfather used to say “pull in” when referring to parking the car…so not a stretch for me to go from “pull in” to “put in”

  3. With all the references to water, it’s hard to believe that “put in” wouldn’t have something to do with it. IMO

    • Hi EB, I’ve thought that put in, could refer to a place on land. A depression, that’s below the surrounding area.

        • Patriot,
          I dont think you are right. The poem tells me that “put in” is something else. IMO

          • Patriot,
            The definition I found for “put in” was discovered while studying a branch of geography. Havent decided if Im ready to share it. But there are alternate definitions for “put in”, which do not involve water. They also do not involve Sheriff Billy’s potty humor. IMO

      • Thanks OS2 but I’m retired…
        Yes, “put in” in that contexts has a different meaning, but in reference to the poem, not the same, IMO of course

        • Eagle, I am more locked onto that word ‘hint’… a hint is a little thing one gives to help another… I think FF is not only giving out clues in the poem & TTOTC, but is telling us to look for them on the trail too. I think he’s giving us a heads-up to watch for confirmation signs on the trail. This one compound sentence first stanza says ‘I can keep’ (store) and ‘I can hint’ (give away)…. that dichotomy thing again. Opposites… the curbs that are fun to bounce off of and return to a comfortable middle. So, all meanings have to be thought thru, not just the obvious ones. But that may be the bias of my armchair location.

          • Idle, i personally suspect anybody would be within very close proximity to the TC if they can find WWWH. But that is just my opinion.thank goodness there is room in this search for lots of opinions or we would all be searching the same spot.

          • In some cases many of us are searching the same spots. I got lucky early on to run into another searcher my first season in the chase as it helped me realize I should stop just blindly throwing darts (I know your not but it is a fallacy of new searchers). There is even another searcher’s solve on here where I have the exact same photo (same angle even) and that was before I ever saw that solve.

          • I believe many have and are searching the same area.. Because there seems to be a lack of comments about one of the most obvious locations to be searching. It is a large area, but if you have not been wise and followed the exact path it is hard to locate such a needle in a haystack. I think some have given up on that area, and moved on. Others are only throwing darts at a map hoping to get very lucky. FF said the poem married to a good map. Good research and a bit of imagination.

        • Just agreeing with eagle on this one. I believe “ put in “has something to do with a water feature.

    • You can also look at “put In” as a required ride.
      Look at it this way, Put in means to enter. To enter some place you may need to pay an entry fee. However, if you consider “take IT in the canyon down” the ‘put in’ might be a transportation of sorts. A train, a boat, a chairlift, sky-tram etc.
      I doubt it… but it is a thought to how “put in” can refer to; enter or admittance to… to gain permission to enter.

      • With the elimination of mines the idea of riding a ore cart into unknown depths (“take IT in the canyon down”) like Indian Jones went out the window.

      • A “put in” on a river is literally a pull off and park the car and launch your raft, kayak, etc. spot.

        • That is one meaning. But, there are others if one looks deep enough. There are scientific meanings of the phrase that have nothing to do with water.

        • ff refused to give any detail of more then one mode of transportation during the hide. He more or less said, it was debatable, to avoid giving anymore information.

          • He did give reference to more than one mode of travel to the point where he hid it. He gave two forms of travel. First, he flew there. Then, he took a rental car from the airport to the location where he hid the chest.

          • Charlie,

            FF only gave one mode of transportation, because he walked from his car to hide the chest.

            I don’t recall him saying he flew. Could you point to where F said he flew to hide the chest and that he used a rental?

          • Charlie M, pull up the Moby Di kens video from Nov., 2013. Dal should have it on this forum. He had someone there tape it for him.
            I was there. I heard his words with my own ears.
            He flew in, and rented a car.

          • F, may be referencing a trip to Denver, or a way to theorize what he might have done.

            F sold his plane and his license to fly was not renewed well before he hid the tc.

            The thought was by searchers that F flew into W Yellowstone and rented a car when he hid the tc. Some theories where saying that F hid the tc was hidden during 2010, and the timeline seems to say so.

            I can’t see how he could have flew, the no fly started, if I remember correctly was 2007.

            Just Say’n

          • Charlie you spread any more rumors you need to do your own due diligence. Furthermore, stay stuck in the mud. Just try to refrain from making negative comments about my hearing.

          • The reference was from when he left car to go hide and back to the car. That is what he said was debatable. Did he just walk from his car, use a boat, or a horse to help get to the hide, that one afternoon?

    • There are a lot of definitions for *put in*. There are definitely more for other actions that don’t involve water. Until the poem is correctly solved it is anyone’s *guess* what the right usage is… There has been sporadic threads about this over the years. Most end up the same….

  4. Howdy, folks! Just wanted to throw out a movie suggestion that I think the Chasers would appreciate to pass the winter months: Check out the new Coen Brothers’ movie on Netflix “The Ballad of Buster Scruggs”. It’s a great movie that features lots of themes that we enjoy: the Old West, Death, and many beautiful Rocky Mountain landscapes! I could picture Forrest enjoying this one as well! 🙂

    • and even more relevant story line, ‘The hateful eight’, where nobody finds what they are looking for, everybody thinks they know what is going on, and nobody makes it out alive. 🙂 The end is pretty darn quickly coming in way too close proximity, Just funnin ya all.

  5. JDA
    Big Skip here…Been gone for a while..But glad to read your sound, documented references from ff concerning the “chase” (JDA Nov. 26, 6:38) are still providing accurate advice to searchers. Are you still searching “in the wood”?.

    • you need us more than we need you.

      oh, but every ‘hit’ puts money in our pocket.

      thanks forrest for enriching us with the dweedbs…

    • No one knows more. Cowlicker, Kpro, Tooby….many hope to profit off of f’s chase. Only the mindless and meek allow them to do so. Many lost ones do.

      • You may be right if by profit you mean make make less money than anyone could make by simply having any job or doing literally anything else to make money.

      • Did you buy a copy of any of forrests books?
        If so, the bookstore profited. Oh and so did the cancer fund that some of the profits go to as well.

  6. The trick to the whole thing, is being able to reduce a large search area to an exact spot. The exact spot is the correct blaze. My solve came from going over and over the poem. a good map, and watching and listening everything on line I could find. I have no access to either book here in S. America. That may have help to simplify for me. I can tell you I had half of a clue, then something caught my eye a huge hint, that gave me the other half, to make it complete. It married to the map instantly, giving me a small blaze location. My solve maybe a bust, but it makes all the pieces fit, and is going to make it a long winters wait to find out.

    • Hi Greg: based on your post, I’m guessing you make perhaps an unconscious assumption — that the blaze is comparatively small. Of course small is relative, but small in this case might not be searchably small from a practical standpoint. For instance: suppose the blaze is a mountain? (Not saying it is — just giving an example of a blaze that could have considerable dimensions.) I think it’s wise to keep track of all our own private assumptions and prejudices when forming our hypotheses and individual solutions.

      • Zap, it seems to me on the map there is 2-3 blazes visible on the map. Finding the correct or final blaze is necessary for the solve. ff pointed out their are several different kind of blazes. A searcher asked ff what direction the blaze faced. He replied, he never put a compass to it, and he not sure it faces any direction. Once again giving the appearance of avoiding giving any new information. He said in another statement that Blaze was not likely change over time.

  7. I’m looking at a BIG picture, so big that it contains all of the WWWH, the HOB, your creek, and the Blaze. According to some searcher’s solve that picture is 10 miles by 10 miles square or even bigger. But according to my solve it’s so small it only covers a small area a lot less than a half mile by a half mile square. In that sense Fenn was again teasing us all searchers. Even though he said “look at the BIG picture”, it actually can be so SMALL. IMO the size of the solution picture is clearly all different for every searcher.
    — MK

    • Hi Mk, so when ff said it took two trips from the car in one afternoon, you imagine him kicking back with a couple six packs on each trip? because a 100yr old in good health can make that trip about a dozen times in one afternoon? and that’s if they had a hard time finding a parking spot to begin with…

      • Finding a parking spot shouldn’t be hard. And if the path from the parking lot to the hiding place of the chest is downhill it shouldn’t be that hard to carry 20 pounds or so on your back even if you’re 80 years old. When you’re coming back you have to come up the trail but luckily your backpack is empty. You rest a while at the car and make another trip to the hiding place with the remaining 20 pounds, and that’s it. A piece of cake!

    • I have one solve in Montana and two in Wyoming. Leaning toward Wyoming, but until I definitely rule out the Montana solve, its still possible IMO I go where the poem takes me- or at least where I think it takes me. Only one person really knows, and he isn’t telling.

    • Currently back to the Montana camp in part because it is cheaper and requires less travel time as I am already in Montana, lol.

  8. I wonder what we will all do when the chest is actually found. We have all invested so much time searching, researching, reading, analyzing , exploring, mapping and studying . Will it be a relief or will we be devistated ? Each of us hope to be the clever one to bring Indulgence home, but there can be only one. I kind of hope that it won’t be found in a very long time( there is something to be said for a good mystery!) but on the other hand I hope to be the wise one , grinning ear to ear , with the chest riding shotgun. Who doesn’t?
    Maybe post- treasure hunt support groups will be formed…

      • Poor Dal. He has invested so much time and Had to rebuild his Ezzy too! When all is said and done, I hope folks still stay in contact.

      • Upon conclusion: I believe Dal will be rather red-faced if my solve ends correctly.

        Hey, that reminds me… don’t forget to watch Rudolph tonight- check local listings.

    • I plan on making a fortune in the stock market… I’m buying shares in IburproFenn and Fennzodiazpine… Oh! and Ovaltine. Ya’ll will need something to wash those down with.

      That, CharlieM is sarcasm, and its funny because it’s true.

      • Seeker,

        Well now, if I state what I think and challenge, sarcasm is never intentional and the way I see things is wrong, seems to me you dish out sarcasm and its okay with you, that is wrong.

        You post just to create a response from me. Others post something that comes out as sarcasm its okay.

        lol, gees everyone has a right to speak their mind, so long as rules arn’t broken, I’m sorry that I upset your fragile feelings.

        • Feelings?!
          If ya only knew… ha!

          Sarcasm is nothing more than a personality trait. Some have a fluffinutter personality, some have egotesticle personalities, some are over-bearing, some are sticky sweet, other’s enjoy being a dicktaitors… No matter what one’s personality is, there will always be another who doesn’t like it… or get their feeling hurt.

          No pain here, ya need feeling for that… lol

    • If it was not me that did it I would just focus on writing my novels and inventions.

      If it was me I would just focus on writing my novels and inventions based on the special ” saved especially for the solver of the clues ” thingamajig.

      Listening to this song crossing the border:



      • if I hear of a mysterious millionaire inventor\author , in Canada or Mexico I’ll know you found it, Alsetenash

        • Veronica, too funny. Well it would be in Canada . I have been drawing the schematics since I was a kid, not knowing what I was always doodling., always the same sketch. But now I do and understand it- to a point . It’s a new technology that will put our computers in a museum lol. Anyways, until then I will just sound like fluff.

          I am searching for the chest for this reason only. This invention will be free to all. The chest would be my abundance rather than from the invention. No ego, no greed. Its not a race. Well worth the cold (shoulder).

          IMO .

          • If your invention works, that would change the world. Can you imagine? I wish you well in all that you seek!

      • Good luck in your search the fringe stays in your rear view mirror if you have good directions otherwise not so much I prefer bad company you

        • Seriously Alsetenash I wish you well. Maybe one day you will be doing a Novel on Hank or whatsitsfaceorname

    • Actually, there are lots of small groups working together. It could be more than one person. I basically just want it found by anybody, so I can see that I had at least a few of the clues correct and was on the right track. I refuse to dedicate my life to this, although it is fun to work on. There are bigger more important issues in the world. I’d rather make a difference somewhere than claim a treasure chest.

  9. Actually, there are lots of small groups working together. It could be more than one person. I basically just want it found by anybody, so I can see that I had at least a few of the clues correct and was on the right track. I refuse to dedicate my life to this, although it is fun to work on. There are bigger more important issues in the world. I’d rather make a difference somewhere than claim a treasure chest.

    • Flutter….looks like you are hooked or obsessed based on your many responses here tonight. Looks like your dedication to the chase is more important than other issues in the world. lol

      • ManOWar,
        Today I worked on a meaningful community project for about 12 hours straight. Now Im too wound up to sleep. Catching up on posts about the chase in hopes I unwind enough to sleep. Tomorrow I will put in another 12-15 hrs on the project. I work on the poem when I cant sleep. So if you notice Im away for days and then suddenly I have a lot to say, its an unwinding with the poem in hopes of sleeping eventually kind of night. But, yes, there are a lot more important issues in the world. The poem is a diversion- my way to unwind.its like reading a book before going to sleep.

          • Hi Clint: Spoonerism I’d guess. So the underlying question is the connection to butterflies…

          • Flutterby is the process by which a butterfly gets around. I believe that is significant to the correct solve. It just happens that I have always loved butterflies. I have a large beautiful butterfly garden that I have tended for years. So Flutterby was the perfect name for me. I appreciate FF sharing it with me.

    • It sounds like you really have your stuff together, Flutter. You are using the hunt to unwind.

    • I agree FB. There are more important issues in the world, and I also want this thing found. Whether or not it can be done I don’t know but the group concept grants the best opportunity.

      This guy Malcolm Gladwell claims that 10,000 hours of “deliberate” practice are needed to become an expert in any field, and that it allowed the Beatles to become the greatest band. A Princeton study defies that theory, saying practice makes only a percentage of difference, depending on the field. Still, 10,000 hours put toward many things can produce measurable gains. A single individual can easily spend 10,000 hours on this chase and end up with some nice vacations. It’s fun, and I don’t regret the time I have spend on it. I’m just agreeing that there are other worth causes worth spending a large amount of time on. We need to enjoy ourselves, but not be blinded by that fact.

  10. On the last Odds and Ends there were differing opinions about Fenn being eccentric… not that it really matters, here is one from the man himself;
    And yes, he admits to being a little off-kilter.
    “Sure, I’m eccentric. I pride myself in being eccentric. I don’t want to go down the center line like a lot of people do.”
    If you are going to be a great salesman there is a good advantage to calling attention to oneself….no harm in being noticed.

  11. WWWH ?

    Water High ?

    A summer day at the Boiling River,where thermal waters mix with the Gardner River near Mammoth Hot Springs. Soaking is only permitted during designated hours and the area closes during periods of high water. Boiling River is closed in the springtime due to hazardous high water

    This spot is also marked by large clouds of steam, especially in cold weather. Here, the hot water runoff from the Mammoth Terraces, enters the Gardner River. The hot and the cold water mix in pools along the river’s edge

  12. How many poem words and or references do you see in this paragraph. Literally just came across this. Maybe nothing there but damn

    Our friend Brown had been completely disgusted, during the last few days, with his whip-saw, owing to the number of times every day that he had to stop to adjust the pack in going through the woods, and now left that useful implement leaning against a tree, with the remark that “he had packed the damned thing far enough.”

    On starting, we kept a northerly course and passed over low undulating ridges, covered with open pine timber [Pitchstone Plateau]. The rocks, where exposed, seem to be vitrified sandstone. We killed two deer this evening which was the first large game shot on the trip. After traveling several miles, we saw an opening beneath us which looked like a valley, and descending the mountain, which was very steep and high, reached a small stream flowing northeasterly [Moose Creek], just about dark, and camped where there was plenty of grass, wood, and water.

  13. My 2¢ for the day:
    …The most common use of nigh today is when you’re trying to sound poetic or referencing the archaic or biblical uses of the word.
    “And stay by my cradle till morning is nigh.”
    Merry Christmas to all…

    • I’ll add my two bits, because we may need more than one word to git the gist.

      This is still in poem form, and the use of the rhyme Nigh and High seem to fall more on High as the important word here.
      The idea that the “end is ever drawing near/nigh” seems to give a perspective of something… High, seems to be where that perspective should be considered.
      High has many usages, for example; Tall, Towering, at a Point, Pitch, Honorable/Respected/High Regards, Hugh, Excitement, Up, Elevation.. just to name a few, and there are many more.

      But do we stop thinking about ‘a’ word at that word?
      We have a possible connections to “then end” “drawing” “near” “heavy and loads”… followed by; “UP YOUR creek” “no paddle”…

      My point is; could this stanza refer to something in line with; a place of honor or respect, a place of a difficult situation, but maybe resolved by the acts of others? Or, maybe a place with natural towers features. Possibly tall heavy loads-?- to put it into perspective.

      Nigh basically means a position or closeness, and not much more. So the usage of the word is limited… unless you bring in outside sources… like biblical usages. But even then, those usages are still limited to being ‘near or soon to come,’ line of thinking. {which nigh already means without a biblical involvement}
      Personally, I think fenn was limited on a word that he needed to Rhyme with ‘High,’ and Nigh worked for that one line, and the entire sentence to have ‘High’ mean what he wanted it to mean.

      So just for fun, lets take Heavy loads as meaning burden, and high as honorable or high regards. Does that give an idea to a place that represents what the “water” could refer to?
      Or it could just mean an elevated location where water is above where you are at, or need to be, line of thinking. Those are only two examples of how “High” can change a perspective of what is meant to be seen.

      Just food for thought…….

      • FFsaid that EVERY word was carefully crafted to fit the poem. Nigh is no ecception. Nigh, in old English means left.
        Thus, the word is important because the searcher, at that point, needs to know whether to go left or right.

        • No it doesn’t. It means the near side of a horse or wagon team (as opposed to the far side). There are no documented cases of anyone telling someone to “take two nighs and then a far” to get to the post office.

          Nowadays we have driver’s side and passenger side in relation to our transports. It just happens that (in the US and other countries) the driver’s side is the left side of the car. And we still don’t “take two driver’s and then a passenger” to get to the post office.


          • Jake,

            The nigh side of a horse or a team of horses is the left. At least that was understood while growing up on a ranch.

          • shhh JK 🙂 Who ever has been telling this crowd that “nigh” means left, is either an evil genius for misleading 20% of searchers, or just as gullible as the ones that are being mislead.

            I don’t mind that it isn’t in any dictionary that way, but to not try to find any stories that one can point to from say the last 200yrs to see if it was possible…… just a very interesting case of crowd psychology.

          • Jak ~’There are no documented cases of anyone telling someone to “take two nighs and then a far” to get to the post office.’

            LOL… so you want a ‘poem’ to be 100% straight up?

            If I ask you what side is the driver side of your car, would you say; the left side? or the nigh side?
            IF we were in England and the same question was asked… what would your answer be for which side is the driver side?

            If we were in England in the 1600’s the driver if the carriage may refer to the left side as the nigh side. So he would climb the carriage on the far side or right side.

            Nigh can mean “left” in the general term of the word. fenn needed to have words that worked the way he wanted and still be in poem form.
            Plain English is just that… there’s no such animal as American English. The only difference is time and slang and misunderstanding of words.

            Have a peek at the word bonnet; you’ll find it can be a headdress, a hat with a tie cord, a hood on machinery, a sail on a ship
            If the line in the poem read; put in below the bonnet, what would you consider the interpretation to be?

          • Seeker, my favorite comparison word will always be thong. Which as a noun can accompany different parts of the body but as a verb…

          • ** ** ** CharlieM – “The nigh side of a horse or a team of horses is the left.” ** ** **

            Agreed. Because in a right-hand dominant world, you approached the horse from the left side to throw on a saddle and to mount – it was the side near you while you were doing that.

            As a rightie I mount my bicycle from its left side too.

            A right-handed hitter stands next to (near) the left side of home plate to swing a bat.

            But unlike the nigh side of your horse, the nigh side of your house has nothing to do with left or right.

            My response was really to the completely false and misleading assertion (not by you) that “Nigh, in old English means left.”

            It doesn’t (didn’t?)


          • ** ** ** Seeker – “LOL… so you want a ‘poem’ to be 100% straight up?” ** ** **

            According to the fella that wrote “. . . I must go and leave my trove . . . “, he actually did do that.

            He went and *LEFT* his trove.

            So if *he* had to take a left, seems pretty clear that so must all who seek.

            Take two LOLs and call me in the morning.


            [ask yourself why is it that “went” is the past tense of “go”?]

          • Jak

            Right. I mean, correct.
            Leave can mean left as an interpretation of the word. But for that line or sentence in the poem to mean left, it would need to be a clue, and / or open the door for other words to mean something slightly different when considered as a clue. Which is what I think is happening.

            For example; IN. can mean a place in time. [expressing a period of time during which an event takes place]
            So “went” can be a specific distance as to “go,” only we need that distance to be known. feet miles or in time.

            Went can also be of a time past, as well as gone. So in one form or interpretation of reading the poem’s words… time or a time period can be involved.
            IMO, many of the words have time related meanings and usages.
            Many of the words have directional meanings and usages.
            Many of the words relate to death or the end of something.. and most of the words we are talking about right now, have all those usages.

            It all depends on which way we want to read the poem using the words meanings and definitions.
            IF stomping is all anyone is going to think about… you’ll never get them to inquire any other usage of the words.

            Hence the reason I think fenn stated a few time; it’s not a matter of trying its a matter of thinking, ~and~ need to think the right thoughts.
            I’ll add; we need to ‘learn’ WWH into the thought. In that thought; time or learning of something went, gone, in, begin it where,… tftw…OUAW… might place significance in nailing down the first clue.

          • ** ** ** Writis writ – “. . . just a very interesting case of crowd psychology.” ** ** **

            It does seem to have curiously convincing for some reason, doesn’t it. Sometimes it seems like the *one thing* most searchers agree on is that ff intended “nigh” to indicate “left.”

            I still go with “near”, out of “the desire to keep it simple” I guess.

            The older comparative sequence is interesting – “nigh, near, next”, more commonly rendered now as “near, nearer, nearest.”

            “The end is ever drawing left” just strikes me as . . . clumsy*. But who knows, maybe ff really did intend us to translate the poem into synonymese.

            *(Though not as clumsy as the sometimes-suggested synonymese of “But flat black rock with marvel gaze,”)

            Billy reminds us above that he thinks “nigh” means “wash” or “laundry” (from Irish – though I no longer remember the significance of that meaning to his chase map).


        • Right, Nigh means left… Far means right, right? I mean, correct?

          So if you look at the poem as directional only.. down is a direction [ elevation or south, line of thinking ] Not Far, could mean not the first right but the second right, or the need to make two rights… at hoB turn left, up to HLnWH.

          But my point was if High has many usages, and another usage implies something else, than elevation… the beginning of the path may change with different meanings of those word that may have a connection to one of ‘high’s meanings’,, because high is connect with “water” and the beginning starts with “waters” As well as warm, which also has different meanings, usages, then just an unknown temperature.

          Basically saying the poem can change, until you can get the right line of thinking.. and not just a directional path.

          • Like many words ff uses, have a more then one meaning, and sometimes you need to use both to have the whole clue. Nigh, is to be close, and on the left, in other words, Close on the left. I have found this doubling meaning used in a couple of places I the poem.

          • Greg,

            Yep, I completely agree. That is what I call Multiple Meanings. A poem allows the writer to use more than one usage of a word and more than one usage can imply… it would definitely make a solve much more difficult to interpret and still straightforward.
            I think fenn chosen the avenue of a poem, for presenting the clues, for just that reason… it allows different interpretations.

            Example: the comment; marry the clues to a place on a map. This can be understood as, each clue has it’s own place on a map. Or a single place contains as all the clue. Or each clue makes up a place on a map that is all one in the same.
            I think all three versions are correct.
            Call it synergy; the whole is greater than the sum of it’s part… but all the parts are need to to create the whole.

            I’ll give another example; your destination is small, but the location is huge.
            It’s possible that we need to look in a large area and dwindle down to locate a small place, or we start and stay in a small place within a large area, or the small place is hidden in an important [ for lack of a better term ] area.
            I think all three possibilities are one in the same, and honest in a process.

          • Good catch, Joe.

            “its”… My Bad!
            The ‘destination’ is ‘huge’ as well [interpretation].
            The question is, what does huge {huger} mean? Does it mean important, profound, powerful, high ranking, have ‘significance’ we need to understand or will understand or ‘learn’?

            fenn did say we need to learn WWH.
            fenn did say people will be surprised, or something to that affect, when / where the chest is located.
            fenn also said some folks arrived at the first couple of clues and didn’t understand the significance of where they were.
            Which make me think there is more to the location than just points to be stomped out.

            Keep me on my toes, Joe. I agree that “its” is important… and never be sorry for being accurate……. thanks.

          • seeker – waters high imo is only a way to send you north from this body of water to a higher elevation where you can find the blaze- if you think about it I see no other reason for waters high to be there other then to send you north

          • frank;

            Why north? One could go “high” – meaning higher in elevation in any direction. You are inserting your solve in place of what the poem says – JMO – JDA

          • frank,

            I got go with JDA on this one. I can’t find anything that would imply high as north or northward ‘only’
            It might work in your location, but that just might be a coincident. I mean I can find how high would reference north on a map, or with the use of “water high” Maybe if it said ‘high water’, yet even they it doean’t imply north ‘only’

            But I do understand ‘interpretation’ is different for each of us. For example; if the poem said; go to hell, I would not think of it as ‘south only.’
            I’d more than likely head to Hell Michigan… which is one of the most norther states there is.

      • “The end is ever drawing nigh” I don’t believe was put in there to ryhm with high. I’ll put it this way, The end is ever drawing to the left, this could be a reference to a trail, creek or a road.

        As far as water high, could mean water that is above your current location. The heavy loads could mean backpacking. I believe the word “just “ could mean no need to backpack and no need to go to water high, it could put you in the area that the blaze is at.

        More food for thought.

        • It is referring to a trail. It implied turn left. Which also tells you which direction you are now going in.

          • What happened to the word Drawing? To me means slowly go to, in this case to the left.

            Sorry I don’t see any direction as far as North, East or etc.

          • Charlie M. The reason you don’t see any direction is because you don’t know which direction you are headed in BEFORE you turned left.
            If you knew, and of course you would know if you were looking at a compass, then you would know that by turning left you would be one direction left of the point you saw on the compass.

            Make sense?

    • *Nigh* was a great poetic word for Fenn to choose. The entire stanza is packed with words that seem to tie-in well with each other if all the meanings are looked at and blended together. Finding the *correct* combination is the difficult part.

      On another note…. an interesting fishing term that may(or may not) interest someone is…* a follow*.

      • Ken, ~ ‘Finding the *correct* combination is the difficult part.’

        I lean towards the same idea. Plain English, but not commonly used in the same manner, as most hope it to be.
        How do you hide something in a poem, in plain sight, work the words just right – to make the “correct combinations” A poem allows redirection for interpretation and it still will be straightforward.

        LOL.. he spent years [ a decade plus ] perfecting it the way he wanted, the same dedication is going to be needed, imo. I’ll add fenn said we overrate the “complexity” of the poem by knowing about a bunch of things, and “oversimplify the clues”… And basically , imo, as told us how to solve it. “I looked up words and definitions of words and changed them… it came out exactly like I wanted”
        It’s not going to be easy, and definitely its not simplistic… But as you have stated and posted fenn’s quote… “think the right thoughts”.. come with analyzing the words he chosen and where he chose to use them.
        “All the ‘information’ to find the chest is in the poem” ~ In plain English. Only many don’t know the meanings of words we use everyday… [ wordsmith’s homework ]

      • An interesting note, Ken.

        I hadn’t heard that term before…”a follow”.

        Is the follow tied to the Leader?

      • Ken – what I have on nigh and its just an opinion – that when you go in to- in the wood – the treasure would be on the left side of in the wood- it would not be straight north from the blaze

  14. “…but the secret is to think and analyze. They can find the chest. Just can’t get out of your car and walk over in the woods and walk to it.”

    • That’s a nice little quote to imply it’s not that simplistic in thought.

      But what i find more interesting is; that is at least the third time fenn references “woods” and refer to it as an indication of woodland or forest.
      So, if every word in the poem was deliberate and there’s no subterfuge / tomfoolery in the use of words… wood and woods shouldn’t mean the same thing.
      Again, that might be a simplistic thought, rather than, analyzing the possibilities / WhatIF’s.

  15. Although I’ve been involved in the chase for well over a year, this is my first blog post. I’m wondering about the question of which way does the blaze face. North, South, East, or West. f answered that it may not be in any of these directions. These are specific directions. Is it possible that the blaze could face NE?

    • Belated welcome to the Chase, then, MM, and I hope you will be encouraged to continuing posting. To answer your question: yes, the blaze could face NE, or any direction other than a cardinal direction. (And unfortunately, it might still face a cardinal direction because Forrest did say “may not” as opposed to “doesn’t,” which gives him an out.)

      But really, if the blaze is natural (as I believe it is), then it’s not likely to point in any one specific direction. Nature isn’t usually that precise for macroscopic objects. In fact, Forrest’s blaze could point in all directions or even none at all (e.g., what direction does a sphere point? Or the sun?) Much to ponder…

      • We do have the Q&A about; if you can find the blaze the distance to the chest would be obvious.
        Setting aside the possible, directly under the blaze, idea. And should the blaze be natural… what about ‘up’? a stone or pillar pointing upward [narrow at the top]. It doesn’t have to be tall, nor the distance to the chest be too far up… but it is a direction that might be obvious IF you have found the blaze fenn might be referring to.

        The other possibility is; whatever the ‘object’ is, does it act as a marker or pointer? and if a pointer, can a shadow be the obvious distance and direction?
        Personally, I think by this time/stage in the poem [correctly deciphering all the prior clues], a searcher would have some idea of why the blaze is a clue.
        And yes, fenn called it a clue… so that’s what I’ll call it.
        fenn also said he didn’t take a radius measurement [ think was the word he used ] which could imply a straight line from the center of an object [ normally a circle or round ] But why not a notch in the object, a depression? a hole?… thinking along the lines of something natural. Another-words, fenn doen’t know the exact direction nor the exact distance… it could be why he personally followed the clues… each clue or the physical clues can produce the next clue in the same manner. Hence; Not Far, but too far to walk could possibly a clue for “observing” rate than stomping.

        • This morning I proposed something under the Blaze thread that could be the answer – proposed just to stimulate conversation, and pose a possible idea – JDA

    • It could face any direction, ff did not want to give out that much information. Figuring out the correct blaze is part of the searchers job, but you must have solved all the clues to be correct about the blaze, and then follow the instructions in the poem. The poem has clues and instructions, know the difference.

  16. Forrest has been completely honest about everything. If you read the poem over and over and read the book then Read the poem and then the book again looking for any little abstract thing that could help with the clues in the poem. I had to Google almost every sentence in the book, I’m not even sure if anyone else knows that the bitterness of poor quality remains after the sweetness of a low price is forgotten. The wood is not a clue. It’s nothing. I understand the meaning of each sentence in this piece of art. Water is not about water! Has anyone ever wondered why Mr.Fenn has never used the expression ” don’t muddy the waters” ? I do! Did anyone ever get that Home of Brown is actually Temple and nothing other. I completely understand what warm waters halt is and where it’s located in two places if you catch my drift. my goodness it is hard to listen or read all my fellow searchers claims and thoughts on everything and be so off track. Mudding the water. The key word lol. Is in the beginning. If you guy’s and girl’s can just stop and think more kid like and really just not think and do his advice it should just click. I’ve gave everyone some clues. Water is not actually water, HOB omgosh everyone should know that’s home. I know exactly what the 8 clues are but do not have the Blaze. But and I say but if you just want this to be just water under the bridge be my guest. But I take no pride in knowing the location and seeing everyone so far out. I’m going to the spot in the spring. In fact I’m going to whistle one particular tune all the way to the chest and back to my truck. Re- think and if you get there before me it’s all yours!
    Tommy Goswick

    • My wife said I’m bad! She said tell everyone it’s not Taos and tea with Olga. The Benjamin Franklin quote. Was just to show what everyone is missing. And yes I do know about all the other Benjamin Franklin quotes also.

      • My new favorite song I’m going to be whistling especially after I have indulgence. https://youtu.be/CB8F8g1-4Uw listen to this song its so cool listen while reading that poem together all the way to the end haha and when it halts at Peace. That’s the celebrated triumphant moment!

        • William….what ya got to say about NIGH = LEFT?

          One thing I am sure of is the State Bird of Oklahoma (Scissor Taled Flycatcher) was sometimes on the Fenn’s supper table.

    • Tommy G. If you don’t know where the blaze is you are wasting your time searching for it on your forthcoming trip. That is a major clue.

      • I know where the blaze is but nothing in the solve tell’s me what it is. I understand the importance of it but it’s definitely not on the map. It’s going to be a surprise and that doesn’t surprise me at all knowing Mr.Fenn by his word.

    • Geezzzuz another knowitall that wants to tell us dumb we are… only to brag… I’ll have it next year.

    • Your not insinuating I’m testing for information I hope. I’ve got this trek nailed down. One year and I’m ashamed that it took my brain that long to see after I realized what the poem was actually meaning. I felt stupid when we’ll to tell the truth when my wife said one single sentence to me this morning about it. It really is like 5th grade talk. Use your imagination. Like who made all the rules that we and every rock has to abide. Why does dirt mostly stay under our feet while air is all around us. Think

      • William—

        No. I put “test” to make sure I could post. Earlier I posted but it didn’t “take”. I’m really glad you have the whole thing solved. Good for you. I’ve been checking out the poem for a little over two years now and I’m not sure I have a clue what’s going on.

        But go to the center of the Universe and listen good. It might be a good starting place. Who knows?? All the best to you– go get the darned chest if you know where it is Sherlock. lol.

        • I’ll give you this water is nothing more than circumstances. And everyone every single person muddies the waters and have for like 10 years now if that makes sense. And another thing Mr. Fenn predicted. Was that the finder would be unable to keep his mouth shut haha.

          • Mr. William–
            It is completely understandable that when you discover the solution to such a complex and convoluted riddle, a person wants to share the solution with anyone that will listen.

            So are you going to tell us?

  17. Speaking of Oklahoma, you want to take an interesting side trip?

    Google: “Tulsa center of the universe”.

    Oklahoma is an interesting place. So save your best smile until after you raise the lid. I’m saving my best smile. How about you?

    • I thought Lawrence, Kansas was the center of the universe. My proof?….Open Google Earth….without moving anything….start moving closer and closer….until you cant get any closer. From there you can walk to the center of my universe at Billy’s jailhouse!!

    • Yes I’ve been downtown Tulsa and stood in the so called lol center of the universe.. haha it was cool during mayfest. Grew up in Tulsa but moved to the country atmosphere years ago. Now Tulsa is bad. Just today a burglar was shot twice breaking in a house in Midtown Tulsa. He is dead.

      • I am 100% that Texoma plumber that had a bed roll in his truck going hunting for deer in an ice storm with a rusty bed driving a hundred and fifty miles only to find my bed Roll soaking wet. With five kids a wife and a small camper trailing behind! I’ve been there and done that! And Mr. Fenn predicted everything! But I did that in the 80’s. Lol

  18. Do you think WARM means hot cold welcome meaning or love or heated or so on and so forth? I can’t give this answer away. Here’s one way to look at it. That I don’t think anybody ever has and I’m not giving anything away by telling you this. A heated discussion. Or topic. Not everyone can my muddy the waters Waters some more. And then try to figure out what halt means. This is about all I can give. Read the book read the poem read the book slow analyze every sentence.

    • Looks like I missed an entertaining conversation here William. I will just remind you that FF has said to read the poem and the book, and analyze every word. Not just every sentence. But thanks for that enlightening advice we have all heard a million times. Wouldnt want to forget that.

    • Show us the way all knowing prophet and talk about warm waters before God Dal crucifies you in the morning for taking his name in vain.

  19. What is one man’s solve is another man’s junk. Wwwh means nothing by itself. Everything must lead you to the correct blaze spot.

  20. If Dal replies to me he will say something to the effect William I have no control over other members of this site or their comment so on and so forth. Lol

  21. The little group of people like seeker and Ken and others that act like they are so smart and rule this site cause they been here a while and think they know it all LMBO you guys aren’t wise and need the wood and I’m brave enough to say it haha suckers!

    • Im starting to think that one particular searcher who has been very verbal today, just might be sipping something that isnt Ovaltine. Its been a long day here. My community project took more than 15 hours today. Im too tired to care whether anyone has solved the poem today. But, I do know it isnt solved correctly until someone is holding the TC. That would be nice. But it doesnt seem hopeful having read a few of the posts tonight.

      • Flutterby,
        Cheer up! 🙂 IMO You’re just 1 sneeze away from solving this puzzle and ya don’t even know it. 🙂 Hopefully tomorrow brings a bit more sunshine for you and everything works out for the better! We need more people like you on this planet!

        Carry on Flutterby!

    • William, do you ever re-read your posts? You come across very immature condescending. You’ve been here a year but yet know more then all of us that have been here since the start. This is why nobody answers you. You come across as a “Dal stalker” with the “if I can’t have him nobody can” attitude. Get over yourself, the only thing you know is what you think you know, which is diluted with rude, foolish behavior. I could care less about your wrong assumptions of what it takes to solve the poem. I would think that you would want to use other people’s ideas to help with your own, but that’s a smart way to approach this puzzle and probably out of the scope of a “one and done”. I’m not worried the slightest bit that you will find the chest. But keep doing you, I’m sure you’ll listen.

      Charlie, you make me want to change my name. I put you and genius here (William) in the same category. In fact, when Winter comes around every year, searchers just like you come out to play. You spend a week to a year on this puzzle, then remind us that people like you are so much better then people like us. The thing is, every year, it’s someone different. The same “know-it-alls” never make it. They quit, they come with excuses, and they never make it to another year. They are a sickness, like the flu, comes around, gets a bitter taste of medicine, then are gone. But you do offer one thing, you make the rest of us laugh. To know there are people like yourselves out there, bored with their own under achievements, just waiting to prove, that pharmaceuticals will always have a place in our society.

    • Hi Will Go –

      What we are doing is talking to each other in a never ending conversation about a subject we enjoy.

      What you’re doing is bringing up things we have already discussed and don’t wish to further persue.

      Maybe one of the other new commenters will embrace what you offer.

      Please don’t insult Dal or other commenters, except the Sherif, he’s open game ever since he drove his train off the rails.


      • Mr. Nuttz:

        It is good to hear from you again…..

        I consider you my head cheerleader in this final phase of the quest. Afterall, I believe you were the one that named me …”1f Billy”. I like it.

        Thank you

        • Sherif Billy,
          Are you implying that someone is wearing a kilt and shaking pom-poms? How dare you! Mr. Nuttz does NOT own pom-poms!
          But by the looks of his “handle” the kilt might come into play? 🙂

          Carry on Sherif Billy!

  22. I have my solve, with an exact location of the correct blaze, that all the clues lead to. I say your solve is no better then mine, Till one has the tc in hand. What song will you be singing if there is no tc at your solve location? Something like the Summertime Blues?

      • Zaphod73491,
        I’m guessing you’re probably spot on with this prediction, but ONLY because he didn’t say ->IMO

        I seen you got sent to moderation a few years back yourself eh? Silly conjecturer you? I’ll be next probably!(wink, wink). Hope not but ya never know?

        It looks like you “technically” missed on the first part of your “Thanksgiving” or “Christmas” retrieval comment from a few weeks back eh? I’m saying “Technically” because you didn’t actually state “Specifically” 2018 but “Technically” it was “Implied” but not “Specifically” per se’.

        Speaking of which, if you don’t mind me asking, when you heading off to Hawaii and will you be back for a “Christmas retrieval” of Indulgence? Enjoy the well deserved time off!

        Carry on Zaphod73491!

      • Hi Zap, I guess I shouldn’t be surprised by the number of people who think they are the first to post postulating to “know”.

        They did the perfect amount of research to find the TC, yet didn’t happen to notice in that research, that they were not first to postulate and post like it is the first time we heard it? obviously if they did notice, their stories would be at least a little original and/or entertaining from the dozen or more a year that get posted here.

      • Hi ByGeorge: yes, once upon a while I was moderated for expressing a conjecture that Forrest had doctored/edited an email from a searcher in one of the Scrapbooks. It was Dal’s right to counter that with moderation, and I am now more circumspect when it comes to sharing any similar theories of possible playful hijinx by Forrest.

        “It looks like you “technically” missed on the first part of your “Thanksgiving” or “Christmas” retrieval comment from a few weeks back eh? I’m saying “Technically” because you didn’t actually state “Specifically” 2018 but “Technically” it was “Implied” but not “Specifically” per se’.”

        Oh, I did mean 2018, but it was more in jest than an actual prediction: that a Christmas recovery (for instance) would be poetic and funny. But no, the chest is not going to get retrieved this year at Christmas, or any other day — I think the chest is perfectly safe where it is through at least April. Snow is a great deterrent.

  23. I had a trigger thought the other day. Could be something, could be nothing. I did a little digging reasearch and can only come to a “hmm….interesting” .

    FF hid the chest in 2009/2010 ish.
    He hid the chest before he completed the poem.
    In 2009 the FBI searched his home and other archeologists for potential illegally acquired archeological artifacts- FBI found nothing .

    How would the FBI even know what they would be looking for? It looks as though he has many artifacts in his inventory. Was it something specific?

    Did he hide the chest before they arrived?

    Is it why he hid it before he completed the poem?

    Could the ‘saved especially for the solver of the clues’ that he doesn’t want to talk about ( paraphrased) be of interest?

    I like a good mystery 🙂


    • Hello Alsetenash. I believe there may be different ways to consider the “hid the chest before finishing the poem” comment. One may look at it that it was hidden before he completed writing the poem, or, one might consider the clues as steps to the treasure chest, and in those steps, the treasure chest was hidden before the poem was completed. For example, let’s say the treasure chest was hidden at “I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak” of the poem. It would be considered it was “hidden before he finished the poem”. It’s just a different way of looking at this particular comment. I certainly would consider everything in the poem and try to determine what the clues are and what they mean.

      This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

      • Great insight as always pdenver as I had also wondered about the meaning of hiding the chest before finishing the poem and if that affected the timeline.

          • pdenver…I like your short but concise either/or comment. The consensus is all over the place as to what Fenn actually meant with his *complete/completed* comment. I think he just loves to be intentionally ambiguous on non-safety issues…just to stir things up a bit. If we take a look at the timeline and couple that with his comments(including the very telling one at Fenn Diagrams site… which has now been added to Tarryscant) I believe that the poem was in completed form before he hid the chest… and this comment indicates that the hide was done before the actual end of the poem. Another good *logical* indicator is Doug’s descriptive timeline/recollection of how it all went down… and his interaction with Fenn at the time. The original plan was for Fenn to die where he hid the chest…and leave the poem behind to be found. hmmm

      • PD,
        The poem couldn’t be complete (completed?) until the task was done.
        The poem tells of treasures, a chest, a trove for all to seek. secreted, somewhere in there…
        Without the physical placement of the trove, the poem is useless for its purpose… the sole purpose of the poem is to provide information to find the ‘treasure chest.’

        Complete; having all the necessary or appropriate *parts*; finish making or *doing*; make (something) *whole* or perfect.

        The chest is ‘part’ of the ‘whole’ [the completion of the poem] that needed ‘doing’

        There’s really only two question that need answering;
        ~Why did the creator of the clues seemingly had to follow those clues?
        ~Was there something needed to be finalized? prep / prepared for? other-than the ‘act of hiding’ the chest? {another-words; is there something we and fenn need{ed} to observe to discover the hidey spot, or any clue{s}}.

        We have been told a number of time; follow the clues there’s no other way to fenn’s knowledge. We need all the ingredients. Our instructions are to think, analyze, plan, and observe… and use of imagination.

        What needs “planning”? What needs “observing”?
        Did fenn have to do the same, exactly as we are told to do, from the information in the poem???


        We don’t even know what sparked the warrant in the first place… An archeologist? An organization? Native Americans? any number of other avenues could have been involved…
        Unless someone knows what the warrant states, we will not know. My first ‘ guess ‘ would be human remains… but it is, only a guess. That’s the biggest no no to ‘have possession of’ and not report. Yet, it really doesn’t matter… nothing has been indicated of any wrong doings.

        However, some of your question might imply something in the chest shouldn’t be there, line of thinking. To have it would be Illegal? I highly doubt that would be the case.

        • *** *** *** Seeker – “We don’t even know what sparked the warrant in the first place… An archeologist? An organization? Native Americans? any number of other avenues could have been involved…” *** *** ***

          No guessing necessary, Seek’. Operation Cerberus made national headlines at the time, and has been written about many times since. Small sample:




          • That is a good link JAK3 for folks not aware. 4 or 5 years ago I dove into that research just to find out what it was all about. Interesting story if folks are interested…

          • Forrest Fenn, a wealthy collector in Santa Fe, also had his home searched, although he was not named in the indictment.

            Again, we don’t know the reason. We know about an investigation that covered many places and people… only by this report fenn was not named in the original documents.. So we don’t now what cause the warrant or what was in the warrant.

            My understanding is; all collected items and data were returned to fenn. Don’t quote me on that.
            But the point is; is there something in the chest related to any of this? I doubt that for one major reason. IF, another investigation and warrant issued for any items or data was to happen… a court can order the chest to be retrieved and searched. I think fenn is smart enough to know this possibility and wouldn’t place an item that could have any possible connection to the original investigation or was seized in that investigation originally.

            Anyways, this is an oddy for the ends topic.

          • “Wilson(special agent) promised an investigation that would go after not only the excavators(looters) but the collectors and dealers he described as “the root cause of the problem.”
            The Redd’s home was raided and they were arrested June 10, 2009 simultaneously with other raids.
            *Disclaimer*…. none of this means anything to me other than info about the story and the timeline… I do not prescribe to any tie-in with Fenn’s treasure Chase.

        • Seeker. I definately was not insinuating that there is a possible illegal artifact. Not at all. Just that it was interesting it he hid it around the time of these events. Just a , what if they would confiscate his trove he plans to hide ,kind of thing. Maybe it’s a very interesting artifact , not illegal, but considered unique and priceless. The potential of losing it in that situation back then, could be looked as a motivation: before the poems completion.

          I dunno, just was interesting.

          Thanks Jake3 for the links- very informative.

          Moon house
          White bird


      • ThanksPDenver.

        Many ways to look at it, for sure. Just is interesting. No matter, the poem is the way to solve this. I have my way of a solve with the poem and then traced it all to a map. No other means other than backstory. To me, it is these things, these other stories outside th poem, that highlights the links as ‘sprinkles’ . Sprinkles are subtle links to other story’s that link to help with the clues.

        To identify a “sprinkle” ? How is it a “sprinkle”.?The “sprinkles” means leads to something else: backstory, history etc? Reading the book, poem, book, poem 4,6,8 times, what sprinkle is seen? Does this sprinkle tie in somewhere in the backstory somewheres?

        Just me and my thoughts of opinion because I really don’t know.

        IMO .

        • Hello Alsetenash. Mr. Fenn’s use of the word “sprinkle” is interesting. I believe when one reads the book and poem, some things may stand out and worth investigating. “Sprinkle” has a couple meanings for me which has lead me to different search areas, along with reading the poem and book. Mr. Fenn’s choice of words in his poem has lead me to great places, and will continue to do so.

          • Hello Lugnutz. The word “sprinkled” is what is being referred to. We’ve read about Mr. Fenn’s “sprinkler” in his scrapbook in reference to his shower. Don’t recall if he’s mentioned it elsewhere.

      • Hello Seeker. Yesterday’s post at 8:25 a.m. is interesting. I know we’ve been told to think and it’s found me finding different areas to how I’ve understood the poem. The first time I was at a couple of my search areas, I’ve found planning and observing to be important. One of the areas, I could not go to where I wanted to go. I realized then that timing was important due to what I considered “heavy loads and water high”. For example, let’s say my area is correct and to answer your question of whether or not Mr. Fenn would have had to do the same, the answer would be affirmative. Again, this is only to suggest if my search area was correct. The words “planning and observing” are interesting and can relate to many areas on a map.

        • PD,

          What are you planning and looking to observe?

          I ask because there are difference of opinions of what that includes. You seem to be implying the idea of wait till the mud dries or the waters calm or something to that affect.
          That seems to say a searcher may run into obstacles or seasonal changes and searching may not be a year round possibility. Is that all we need to ‘plan’ for, in regards to the solution?

          • Hello Seeker. I can only speak of my experiences of how I interpreted the poem, but I will confirm to all you’ve mentioned. I’ll ask a question to you and others. What is the purpose of planning and observing?

          • PD,

            I really think the clues are utilized not just stomped out. There is a good chance a certain time of day or dates it can be accomplished precisely.

            The RM’s are still moving and will ave an impact in 3009.
            fenn followed his own created clues, completing the poem.
            Th need for all the ingredients… not just what they are but exactly where they are.

      • The poem doesn’t end at the hiding spot, there is more information after that. Pretty much what pdenver said.

  24. I think I’ve figured out my subscription issue and, since I know I’ve seen others run into it from time to time, here’s the (hoping – won’t know till this posts) solution.

    WordPress only allows 6 pending subscriptions before they cut you off so if you click to subscribe to a thread, but don’t ever confirm it (gets lost in email, you forgot, whatever…) once you get to 6, I think you stop getting the click to confirm emails.

    If you go in and delete the pending confirmations, I’m thinking they will start sending again. Will confirm once I post this whether or not it works.

  25. I have noticed that some comments posted have a reply button, while some do not. What is the reason for that?

    • We don’t want to hear what ya have to say..lol

      There’s always a reply button… just follow the line to the left of the post, up to the balloon.

      • For example; I had to wait for my post to load… if you wanted to reply to me hit the balloon under my post. If another wanted to reply to you, they’d only need to follow the line in the left to your original post and the balloon under it.

    • I have yet to figure that out either. It’s random if there’s a reply button or not or you have go to the first post and reply to that one instead of a specific person that posted In the same thread.

  26. Greg;

    Dal can answer this better than I, but this is what I observe. If a post, like this one, is on the far left it has a reply. A “Reply” to that statement will have a reply – for a total of 4 replies, by then, the column is so narrow that no reply is posted.. I will post this, and reply a couple of times to test it – JDA

  27. its my opinion – that terry scant with marvel gaze is also sending you north to look for the treasure chest if you are brave and in the wood ill give you title to the gold – in the wood is north of the blaze

        • Clint, you seem to enjoy asking “loaded” questions (no pun intended). Clearly you have the book, so don’t play coy. Spit out what you really want to ask. We all know what he has in his right hand.

        • Clint,
          Maybe you should ask one of the other members whom has the book this question. It looks like someone is getting a little testy. Others in here have the book and can answer your question(s). If I had the book I would help you out but I don’t have it. I only have TTOTC & TFTW.

          Maybe you shouldn’t direct so many questions at just one person? Maybe you should ask it in the form of a question to the entire group so that it doesn’t impede on just one person. I know there’s probably a bunch of lurkers in the shadows whom could chime in with some answers to your questions and turn their dark world into light? Otherwise many on here have the book as well. IMO

          Carry on Clint!

          • Hi ByGeorge you know if somebody came on and posted a correct complete solve no one would believe it .I think Forrest said this ,there are 50,000 ants on a log floating down a river and they all think they are the driver.nobody wants to LISTEN.

          • Clint,
            I told Zaphod73491 that maybe you were trying to spark the blog. Maybe get some people talking about these obvious differences between the two OUAW’s but I’ve seen very little mention of it other than Idle Dreamer and Zaphod73491 posting them a few weeks ago. I’m not sure why nobody wants to talk about it but, hey, maybe they just don’t git it?

            Personally, I believe there’s more than one layer to the poem. The first layer takes you to a point and then you reboot from there and start the process all over again. Possibly taking you back to the a place that you know for the first time. Basically back to the beginning. Everybody has his own opinion.

            Carry on Clint!

        • ByGeorge: testy? Not at all. Suspicious would be more accurate. Clint mentioned things that ONLY an owner of the book could possibly know. What would your reaction be under those circumstances? He’s deliberately asking rhetorical questions, so that’s why I asked him to just ask what he wants to ask and stop playing dumb.

          • Zaphod73491,
            No offence, but the DD stick figure is not pitching with his right hand. So maybe he’s just checking to see if you know what this stick figure has in his hand? Like I said, I would tell him but I don’t have the book. I don’t know Clint or his reasoning but I do know you were wrong about the DD stick figure. And what’s it going to hurt to answer his question honestly?

            IMO Maybe he’s trying to spark this blog with a thought process and knows you are a good “Go To” guy because of your insight? Maybe it wouldn’t hurt to play along? Like I mentioned in my earlier post, maybe Clint should direct his questions to the GROUP and not just at you.

            Carry on Zaphod73491!

          • ByGeorge: I suppose the DD stickman could be a bit like the silhouette of the spinning dancer — some people see her spinning clockwise, some counterclockwise, and some have the ability to switch back and forth.


            I see the Dizzy Dean stickman as right-handed with ball in right hand and glove on left; but stick figures, like silhouettes, have no depth to them, so reversal could be possible. My book’s at home, so I can’t confirm at the moment whether it’s reasonable to see it either way. But I guarantee it’s possible to see the DD stickman as a righty.

          • Hi zap I do not have OUAW revised I have the first .I have heard quahada is ridding a brown horse. The first OUAW he is ridding a black pony.what I am doing is checking my solve with new book.i did not want to buy new book trying to save money for the trip in June .The reason I am asking you I think you are most informative.If you don’t want to answer that is ok I will direct my question to someone else and thank you for all your help.

          • Hi zap sorry if I it sounds like I am playing dumb I am trying to reverse engineer to my solve yes i new he was pitching with his right stick arm but i did not know what the new OUAW was showing . What I was looking at he is a righty to.thank you CIint

        • Clint: okay, fair enough. I’m just wondering how you knew there even WAS a Quahada stick figure in the revised version since there isn’t one in the original book to my recollection. Anyway, he has a pistol in his hand.

          • Zaphod73491,
            Come to think of it, didn’t Idle Dreamer and yourself go over all the discrepancies on a different thread? Maybe the last “odds n ends”? Maybe direct him to them, no?

            Carry on Zaphod73491!

          • Zap thank you I will check my solve. I heard their was a stick man ridding a brown pony ,is it a stick pony in new edition !maybe I should just buy it .CLINT

          • Hi ByGeorge:

            “didn’t Idle Dreamer and yourself go over all the discrepancies on a different thread? Maybe the last “odds n ends”? Maybe direct him to them, no?”

            I can’t remember, but I don’t think so. Someone else gave a long list of differences between the two OUAW versions — quite possibly on a different blog than this one. I found about 30 differences myself (independent of the addition of Chapter 40), but I have never enumerated them publicly. Not because I feel there are any great secrets hiding there, but more because I think they are mundane. But if there are searchers here who don’t have both books and want to know what the differences are, I’ll be happy to share them.

          • I thank you for the plug, Locolobo, but I think Clint is referring to the differences between OUAW (2017) and the *Revised* version of OUAW (2018), as opposed to changes from the original Scrapbooks etc.

          • Zaphod73491,
            It had to be on this blog but I’m not sure where. The reason I say this is because I’m not on any other blog.

            I want to say a few of you were talking how long it’s been and maybe Jake was one of the first to get it and you were hoping for a “Doodle” in it because Jake had mentioned the binding issue and his was sent back.

            It’s on here but I’m not finding it. Like I say I’m pretty sure Idle Dreamer was the first to post a bunch and then someone corrected Idle on something. No big deal either way but I know it’s on here somewhere.

            Ya’ll have a good one!

            Carry on Zaphod73491!

          • ByGeorge:

            “I want to say a few of you were talking how long it’s been and maybe Jake was one of the first to get it and you were hoping for a “Doodle” in it because Jake had mentioned the binding issue and his was sent back.”

            I think you might be referring to Aaron. He was one of the few (less than 100 folks) who received a copy of the revised OUAW shortly after it came out … but he had requested a signed copy, and his was not. So he had to mail his back, and for his troubles his signed replacement was sent with a Forrest doodle included (which I think is VERY cool).

            My case was more mundane — I was not among the first 95ish folks to order, so I had to wait a little while longer for the book-binding issues to be resolved. I have long since received my copy (as I’m sure others have who were in a similar situation). The differences between the versions are quite minor — other than the extra doodles and the addition of Chapter 40.

          • Zap,
            Yes Aaron. Anyway it was on here by someone but it’s no big deal. I just thought it might help.

            Carry on zsphod73491!

    • Wow. A string of comments got censored. I was responding to William and seeker. I’m not sure why this one stuck around. Doesn’t make much sense without the others. Whatever.

      • It was an epic string of comments as Focused ended his comment differently which shows the OP had gone to far.

        Gotta just keep carrying on!

        • Differently? Is there certain ways we should end a comment? If so, maybe I need to rethink this whole thing myself… I agree with the “open forum” concept to discuss the chase and hammer out clues among each other. But I also believe while doing so we “all” should show some courtesy and respect for each other….
          Heck, that’s why I very seldom post comments on any other thread other than the poetry page. … I’ll keep my 2 cents to myself..
          Definitely time to rethink things….
          Have a great day everyone…. and enjoy the little things as you go about it… until next time… see ya

          • Focused – I know what you mean – I have seen people that used to comment and are no longer here and I don’t ask why they quit or went some where else cause I know why all I can say is good luck to you Focused

          • Thanks frank, good luck to you also my friend….. may you find all that you seek…. have a great day… see ya

      • Dejoka,

        There seems to be a few comments that didn’t make it through or removed. It could be just a glitch… who knows.

        My comment to you related to Focus’s quote from fenn. My response was basically the idea for one to “know” where the chest is, needs proof of knowing. Everything else is a guess, theory, a hope. No one here can claim they truly “know” without proof. Plain and simple. But it seems there are always knowitalls that enjoy telling the rest of us how dumb we are and how easy the chase challenge is for them… never adding proof to there claims.

        • Mr.seeker-

          If you care to see a picture of the blaze, just have Dal forward me your email.

          Merry Christmas


          • Is it a satellite image or an actual pic you took?

            I’m not curious of the image itself, but more curious if you were on site… how could you not find the hidey spot, and/or fenn only claiming four clues ‘might’ have been solved, and the last we know of… no one has been closer than [ give or take ] 200′

          • Actual picture

            Please remember f said you will have no doubt of the blaze when you see it. (paraphrasing)
            You be the judge…..

          • MM-

            I was on site. The Deputy took the picture of me standing next to the blaze.

            Mr. Seph- Have Dal send me your email and I’ll forward it to you.

          • Sherif,

            How did you get to the ‘blaze’…?
            Was it by the all the clues?
            Was the pic just taken or did you think it was the blaze at the time?
            What or why cause you to leave without finding the chest?
            Again, the pic doesn’t matter to me personally, and there’s no need to judge it. I’m curious to how it all unfolded and why still no discovery of the chest.

            What fenn said was; If you can find the blaze… the distance to the treasure would be obvious…

            So, what happened, or didn’t happen, for you to have the idea [whatever is in the pic] that this is “The” blaze and still no chest found.

        • Seeker,
          f said, without proof searchers should stay home and play canasta. I took that message to heart long before he said it.

          After my first two, armed with hope, wild goose searches, it’s been proof that has kept me in the Chase, I would have quit years ago without it. Proof has allowed me to proceed knowingly every step of the way.
          My only public claim to note has been, I have proof and it’s too telling to mention.

          I don’t knowitall, you are smart and the Chase is hard.

          Good Luck

  28. dejoka,
    That’s simple for me. An old saying….

    “I know what I know, and I know what I don’t know”

    Carry on dejoka!

  29. Mr. Seeker:

    The Jayhawk posse (that’s the Deputy and me) were searching in an area near a river scouring the area for the blaze. We where in an area where there was an abundance of relics and evidence of ancient Indian habitation. My Deputy was particularly fascinated by the petroglyphs, some of which were quite detailed and beautiful.

    I was disturbed because she was lagging behind, photographing them. I remember telling her “come on, we are not here to take pictures of petroglyphs, but to find the treasure.” Being my daughter, we was unfazed and continued her photography. I decided to move on down river. About a couple hundred feet away, I happened to see level ground through a clearing in the trees. I thought to myself, “If I were an Indian, that’s were I would make camp”.

    I walked though the opening, and instantly thought to myself, “Oh my God, he buried his dog Rusty there.” I ran back an got the Deputy and took her to the site. She is much smarter than I, and at first glance said “That’s the blaze”….and she was right.

    For the following 3-6 months we spent near every weekend searching that area. It is particularly close to private property which is overseen by a caretaker. Not knowing exactly the property lines, we ever expanded our search area to the discernment of the caretaker. We would frequently observe him watching us through his binoculars. Sometimes he would drive around the other side of the canyon in his pickup truck, and watch us for hours. Although we suspected we were on his property, he never confronted us. We began to think he had instructions to leave us alone if we weren’t disturbing anything.

    The trouble with solving the poem, is that it quite difficult NOT TO DO, exactly what the words in the poem SAY TO DO. It’s analogous the the riding the backwards bicycle. We fell for it EVERY-TIME we would solve another clue. It says to “LOOK DOWN”…oh we did…down and around and everywhere else.

    Then we returned back to the poem, (and with much research) understood….I am quite sure the caretaker is relieved!

    Best of luck to you;

    Billy and Katie

    • Private property?
      The caretaker may take care of you.

      Be careful out there in god’s country Billy.

    • Great little story, Sherif.

      You should write up a more detailed version, a bit more of your process on getting to the blaze, and have Dal post it. I’m sure many would be interested in reading about the area, ‘petroglyphs’ and all.

      I assume that the poem got you to this area, so I’m not asking for those details. But I’m still not understanding why, “IF” you believe you found the correct blaze.. you’re still stuck at it. What exactly are you doing when you are there?

      Many searchers have some wild imaginations of how this could unfold… some as simple at looking at your feet or you are stand on the chest… to… a sun or shadow alignment. Posting your story may bring up some ideas to your specific spot. Or if your willing… post your pic in the ‘blaze picture collection’ on the site so more have something to view. You may get an idea of what to do next ‘at that specific spot’ No need to pin point your area…

      As for me, IF all the clues were deciphered properly I would think there would be no doubt as to where the chest is. What I’m hearing is ya simply came across something interesting, out of place, and that’s all it is. I also am not digging the thought of it ‘possibly being on private land’.. but that’s just me. Although, I would really like to see the pics your daughter took… just because i enjoy looking at places I haven’t been and may not have a chance to go to… like Goofy’s header pics at the top of the pages.

      Thanks for the response.

      • Mr. Seeker-

        Thank you for your kind note…

        I have contemplated your suggestions and comments. Unfortunately I can not give out more information at this time. You see, I am in a position which has confirmed that this is indeed the one and only true blaze. (I snared a fox)

        The location of the blaze was not intended to be revealed until the strong box was retrieved. To reveal its location prematurely would create a modern gold rush to that area, jeopardizing public safety and violating private property rights en mass.

        It is also my belief that we are in the final minutes (2:00 minute warning) of the fourth quarter in this contest. Without revealing anymore, most searchers (and possibly rightly so) will continue to consider me a nutty and delusional ignoramus.

        For those working on their 64 point star, I would include Bacon ridge, WY. Now where’s, my Deputy…

        Best regards;

        1f Billy

    • Star of Lorraine….
      logo of Sabre Corporation..
      Plane f flew in Vietnam…

      No….nothing here….No….

      • Did he choose the plane to fly because he knew the symbol of the company is the Lorraine Cross?


        Did he join the air Force because he loved Oreo cookies and in the 1930 and 40s he scoured newspapers around the world looking for companies that included Vaguely Christian symbolism in the corporate idetities?

        Not that it matters because the Sabre was made by North American Avaition and thier symbol isn’t the Cross Lorraine it’s Tiosy Leprechaun.

  30. I was just reviewing all of the places that I have given serious thought to, researched and searched. When the question came to me: Which search area has been the most STUPID. I mean unavoidably wrong… Someplace that I had been to repeatedly. Staring blankly into the maw of death, danger, and disaster. Deer in the headlights level of stupid that I had to go back to look at it so many times that I forget the number.
    ——GALLOWS EDGE—— rock climbing and cliff hanging at Whiterock, New Mexico.

    While researching Gallows Edge I noticed that there were about as many primary climbing spots as there is clues in the poem. They each had curious and amusing names. There was also art painted on the rocks at each spot.. One piece of rock art that got my attention was located at the place known as the Pit. The Pit has painting of a Thunderbird similar to that which aviators use to represent their group. That must have been the Blaze if FF put the treasure there. To get into the Pit I could drop down into it from the top. An eighty year old man would not do that, I reasoned through my remaining intelligence. Mostly my knees couldn’t go there either. The other route is at the bottom through a tight crevice. I wondered if this could be a place where FF would stash his dead body on top of his treasure? A tempting thought, but STUPID. People use that crevice to get into the Pit. If their knees would allow them to get there in the first place. Eighty years old? Climbing and hanging? Don’t be stupid.
    So, I walked along the edge. Checking under the sage and juniper-pinyon (not separate trees, but one hyphenated tree name that exists all over the Rocky Mountains). Standing at the Overlook to marvel gaze. There is a waterfall back there too. Don’t go down there if your knees won’t take you. But I did go to the park maintenance area and walk to the top of the falls. I hid a pouch full of Eisenhower dollars at the bottom of a boulder next to the trail near the creek for the memories. Do not cross that creek. That would be suicidal and STUPID.

    Feel free to share your most stupid search area.

    • Michael….we now know that is not a probable area… however… there have been many searchers there from the early days of the Chase. I bet folks still go to that area looking for Fenn’s treasure. There was a solve posted here at HOD somewhere along the line that involved the creek that flows out of the sewage treatment plant and over the *falls* you describe. Been there and done that 2011…. probably around the same era as some of the more prolific searchers of the time that were there.

    • I guess I just don’t get it Dal. There’s Forrest Fenn. Mr Fenn hid a treasure in the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe with a noble purpose — to encourage others to enjoy and appreciate the wilderness.

      Then this cartoonish freak show erupts around it so that others may enrich themselves from Forrest’s act.

      What a complete shame.

      Or, maybe, what a complete sham.

      • Seem to me, aardvarkbark, fenn mentioned he wished he had another chest to hide… so someone took the idea and ran with it.

        Sounds more like an honor than a freak-show, or should they have waited until fenn past on for it to be a memorial honor in spirit? fenn didn’t come up with the idea of hiding treasures, that has been going on for a very long time.
        Do you even know if fenn gave a thumbs up or down on this hunt?
        I can’t stand coattail riders myself, but this isn’t a book claiming to have solved fenn’s challenge… it nothing more than a fun treasure hunt.
        So what are you really barking about?

      • I’m with you aardvark… Every scrap of space & time is someone’s business opportunity. I get 20+ brazen calls a day, half robot, half live, asking me to take a survey, or “offering” free estimates, notices, info, advice, medical braces, etc. … all thinly veiled to sell me something. I’m very appreciative of Dal’s site and support his need to offset the costs he so generously paid-out without remuneration. But I do not welcome the commercial parasites. The snail-mail ads in my mailbox must be denuding the forests. I don’t even open them, they go right into the nation’s trash heap.

      • I believe your thinking is short sighted. Let’s take this as an example. How about all the products that advertise during an nfl football game. Are they not riding the coattails of the nfl?

        • If that is not specific enough how about this. The companies that sell nfl jerseys and the like. Aren’t they profiting off of the popularity and existence of the nfl? Granted the nfl licenses them. Still they would not be in business if it weren’t for the nfl.

      • Again, by ENRICH, you mean make amounts of money so small that doing any job anywhere would pay more money.

    • Curmudgeonly Orycteropodidae aside, I think the winning medallion design looks good to me. Was there any mention of what particular mountain & body of water are depicted in the view? (Not fishing for Chase hints here; just curious!)

      • Blex,
        That’s funny! C.O.! Had no idea until I looked them up! The things I have learned in this chase is amazing in and of itself.

        Carry on Blex!

      • Well that should raise a few.. um eyebrows.

        On one hand I say; good for you, that’s truly getting back to nature.
        On the other hand; this is a site that allows kids and families to visit to chat about treasure hunting… warning or not.

        I guess I’m not prude enough to care about normal standards, either way… Be a rebel if ya want~ it’s your prerogative

        • …At least I didn’t see any tattoos or piercings….maybe she’s saving that for her 75th.

          My take on the photograph, is that she has conceded that she will never find the strong box. Otherwise, why would you self publish a picture of your family jewels. If she were to find the box, every news media source would lead with that picture. (Dal, don’t do it…Just because Cynthia did. Dal……I think you’re going to find it…just saying)

        • Seeker-
          There is absolutely nothing in that photo that I would keep my kids from seeing. I think it is quite beautiful and I like having kids appreciate beauty and art and the human form…I want kids to see the beauty in the natural world. it’s a good conversation starter with a ten year old about design, composition, symbolism, and even the politics of art…

          • It’s not about the art form of the human body. I personally don’t have a problems with Cynthia’s B/D pic on her own personal blog. However, it’s the type of blog title chasing fenn’s treasure… treasure hunting… exploring…basically dedicated to those activities etc. that some would ponder; why one would place a pic on that kind of site.

            Sure its her site, there was a warning, and I don’t live by the standards of the many either… but unfortunately some ‘prude’ will think differently, and this might not be the end of a ‘form of art’ B/D presentation it was meant as.

            Sad as that is…

      • She’s either looking for a new partner, trying to increase the amount of traffic on her site or trying to give Fenn a heart attack.
        You never know where that pic will end up on the web.

        • I don’t blame her for wanting to show off. She’s taken good care of herself and she looks marvelous. That pic shows her bod off but it also highlights her photo skills and her modeling skills…not to mention her spirit. It takes some chutzpah to put yourself out there like that. The photo isn’t vulgar it’s quite lovely. Beside all that…it’s a good ad for Forrest’s Ojo Caliente…

          • I agree dal – she does look marvelous – I don’t think its vulgar – not bad for some one who is 65 waiting for next years picture – looking good cynthia

          • OK, This is what we should do.
            Us searchers will take a nude selfie and publish it to our own site or cloud as long as the pic is taken at a spot we think is relevant to the chase and maybe a clue.

            Nothing vulgar or sexual positions or implying anything sexual and not showing too much like Cynthia’s pose.

            The naked human body is a miracle masterpiece work of art inside and out and whatever designed us deserves to live in this shell just to see what it’s like incase they didn’t try it out first. I’m in trouble now.

            It’s all about your perspective and your mindset.

            We can post links here connecting to our….


      • I think Cynthia artistically achieved–Bob Seger’s–“Shame on the moon” Lyrics Wrapped up in one photo..

      • Dal – My opinion: Go Cynthia!

        So Forrest can have an artist do a drawing of him bathing naked at 13 at Ojo Caliente for his treasure hunting book, but Cynthia can’t do a naked selfie there for her blog???

      • Cynthia – I would make two trips. Chest only the first time. Then I would go back for the treasure.

    • The following is just my opinion……

      At the top of Cynthia’s blog it says, and I quote….

      “No politics… No Happy Birthday greetings. Just old-fashioned treasure hunting talk about solving Forrest Fenn’s poem and finding his elusive treasure chest”

      #1- I would consider this a “Happy Birthday Greeting”

      #2- it has nothing to do with “Old fashioned treasure hunting talk about solving Forrest Fenn’s poem and finding his elusive treasure chest”

      #3- I’m sure the “politics” are yet to come.

      No need to say anymore…

      Have a great day everyone…. see ya

      • Oh Focused…
        I think that guide at the top of Cynthias blog is aimed at you and me not her. It’s her blog and she can do as she pleases. I am always amazed at folks who decide their role is to be critical of others….
        (Please note that I am now being critical of Focused)
        I amaze myself sometimes…

        • Oh Dal,
          I understand that, and yes it’s her blog and she can do as she pleases, as she should. I guess our opinions differ on what is art, which is fine too. We both have the right to our own opinions. As far as “critical of others”… come on Dal, you know that’s not my role. In the last 5 1/2 years of being here , how many times have you found my comments being critical of others? I can count on one hand the number of times, and that’s having 3 left over… both times have been this past week. I would hardly call that a “role”…
          With all that being said, there are no hard feelings on my end towards you, Cynthia or anyone else for that matter.. I was just merely stating my opinion (which I have a right to)….

          You know, sometimes I amaze myself too…… see ya my friend…

        • Well, since it appears Cynthia is old-school…
          maybe she’s trying to reveal something significant to the chase by letting the cat outta the bag…

          “I tawt I taw a puddy tat”- Tweety Bird

      • Cynthia wears her birthday suit very well…its her party and she can do what she wants to LOL!!!

  31. For those constructing your 64 point star….point of the day……

    Tesuque, NM

    Best regards

    1f Billy

  32. For anyone with an opinion on this:
    “I was sure a window pane somewhere in Mississippi was about to break “
    To this day, I still don’t get the reference…

    • Hi Veronica,
      More importantly is the sentence before that one. ” about that time my father gave me a look and I mean REALLY a look.”
      IMO, Forrest wants us to look at something…that something is what he sees out the windows..

      • Eagles, good observation. I have been hung up on windows in TTotC also.
        That dang sentence always gets me though.

        • Hi Veronica I will give you a little hint when you get close to the end of chase you will know what the window is all about.

        • Being 65 myself, I know the feeling do as you see fit, and give them something to talk about. Keeps them off balance.

        • Absolutely MM- Forrest’s windows are his escape.
          But , specifically why Mississippi in that sentence?
          I haven’t been able to wrap my brain around that one and it drives me nuts .

          • NF,BTFTW… on the other side of the river?
            WWH on one side, the canyon down, not far, on the other side.

            The window may be a metaphor for being on one side looking to the other.

          • Seeker, I concur. I have always thought that his mention of Ms Ford is his way of hinting to ford a waterway. Ford= water crossing.

          • Hi Veronica – I think I know what it means but I can’t say because it would give away too much of my solve.

          • MM- completely understand. We all have info that we can’t share. that would be unwise

          • Veronica S ~ ‘Seeker, I concur. I have always thought that his mention of Ms Ford is his way of hinting to ford a waterway. Ford= water crossing.’

            I think you missed my drift, you may not have to ford any waters. Look at it this way; you start at WWWH, only you are on the other side of it. You are on the canyon down side…NF,BTFTW is only explaining you are on the correct side… there’s no need to be ‘at’ WWH on the other side.

            You then, put in below the hoB on your side of WWWH.
            I’ll eat Jake’s hat if we need to cross water… or driving, or go into a canyon…

          • Ah, I see. I have the opposite opinion and believe that there is a water crossing somewhere after the HOB. Save me some of Jakes hat on that one!

          • Seeker,
            Save me a piece of that hat if we have to go into a canyon. I firmly believe we do not!

          • Seeker,
            I’ll save 3 pieces for you!
            need to cross water… or driving, or go into a canyon…
            That’s real bold Seeker.

            Don’t worry, I don’t think your at risk crossing tame waters.

            It’s very difficult to travel or hike anywhere in the Rockies without going into a canyon. They are everywhere.
            I’ll save a piece for you.

          • Awww, ken. You could ask for some of Mr. Fenn’s Tabasco sauce to liven it up a little. (Giggle.)

          • Actually pd… that may work. The Faulker Crown may one day become a sought after piece of Fenn memorabilia.

          • Ya, I’ll put it on eBay with a letter of authenticity.
            I’ll probably get as much as the poop tire.
            Sorry pops.

          • It may, ken. Jake’s hat has become quite sought after over the years. Hang on to your hat, Jake. 🙂

  33. How do you interpret “Your effort will be worth the cold.” ?
    Some think it’s the bronze chest that is cold and others think it’s the gold coins or on the north side of a mountain that gets no sun or behind a waterfall. Then there’s the emotional state of one’s feelings.
    All of these are possibilities but I think the most logical is water as in crossing a creek.

    Folks that were being tracked or followed back in the day would get in a creek/river and go up or down the creek for a distance to make it much more difficult to find where they went.

    • Well Jake;

      I think you are right, and wrong. I do think that you have to cross over a river/creek,but I do not think that this line refers to that crossing.

      I agree with those that think it is in a place that gets little to no sunshine – I won’t go so far as to say that it is on the north side of a hill or knoll, but I will say that something about where it is, keep it in the shade. JMO – JDA

        • YUP – That is how I see it. One might well be on the north side of a knoll, go around the corner, and the TC place is close – in a sheltered space – Who knows? – JMO – JDA

          • So you’re using this line as a clue because it gets you closer to the treasure chest.
            What if it’s 80-85 degrees there on some summer days?
            Or are you saying “cold” means “sheltered” or “shady area”?

          • Well JDA,
            I’ve been in sheltered areas and in the shade in Montana when it was 80 degrees and it wasn’t cold to me at all.
            Sounds like you’re trying to make it work for your area that you won’t give up on.

          • Well Jake, maybe there is more to being “In the cold” than just being in a shady or sheltered spot. Don’t want to say more though – JDA

      • JDA,

        It might get the morning sun… hence your effort will be worth the cold. It might require / plan for, an over night stay or early hike to the clues.
        It seems that many want a temperature to be related to warm and cold.. ok.. but why does it have to be drastic in degrees?
        Even in summer, the mountain night can get cool vs. the warm of the day. I personally don’t think warm and cold in the poem have anything to do with each other. Cold might be more of an emotion or feeling… NPFTM comes to mind.

        • Seeker;

          I agree with you when you state that:” I personally don’t think warm and cold in the poem have anything to do with each other”

          Does it have to do with NPFTM? Interesting question. This could imply a steep descent, or a place with shale or a scree field. Water passing through such an area might not get a lot of sun. What if it then goes underground? Here there is NO sunshine, and the water might be cool or even cold. What if it reemerges near or at this shady or shadowy place? Even if it got sun in the morning, it would still be cool or even cold. All hypothetical, but possible – Just Imaginin’ – JDA

    • In my opinion, the chest has to be worth the cold. You will have to get wet to retrieve it. I don’t think he would have put it in the poem if you just had to be mildly chilled. Every time I have come up with a possible solution that didn’t envolve cold water, I abandoned it. “ Worth the cold “ is a very important and I’d say the most overlooked clue in the poem. If followed correctly, and warm waters have already stopped, you have to cross at some point. Most definitely a water crossing in my opinion. Without a paddle, to boot.
      I’ll bring a bottle of Tabasco with me and definitely eat your hat if I am wrong .

      • You joged a point in my brain I hadn’t thought of. Maybe WWWH is also where “Your effort will be worth the cold” is. I don’t think this line is a clue because I don’t think it will get you closer to the chest but I do think it’s a major hint. Ya, a water crossing seems logical to me also and will have to be safe at all times of the year if that’s possible.

          • Be ready for people to turn their back on you. Because they are jealous or they think you should share with them.

          • Greg- I have been searching for years now, Albeit very quietly , and I’ve made some good friends , (some on the trails)Everyone’s entitled to their own opinion and they don’t have to like me. Fortunately we have places like this we can bounce ideas off of each other, but I won’t give up any of my closely guarded info but I’ve learned along the way.

      • Hi Veronica – It sure seems logical that one would need to physically cross water at some point to be worth the cold, however I think that a searcher could use imagination so they don’t physically cross water in the journey and that “worth the cold” might not have anything to do with water.

        • Hear me All, you could be absolutely right. I could be off base, and I’m always open to new ideas. Crossing just makes sense to me, but what do I know? I don’t have the chest

          • Veronica, I think your correct about crossing some kind of water. There are several other instructions about what to do or not to do on the water. From, Put In, No paddle up your creek, water high, and drawing nigh. Creek or river pulls or draws you down stream. ff was very accustom to navigating the waterways. I think he would use one as a barrier, and some would be too meek, if it was fast water. Just my thoughts.

          • You’re a trooper Veronica.
            I hope I meet you on the trail to the treasure in Montana someday.
            The Gallatin I hope.

          • Greg,
            I think your comment is spot on. There are way too many water references to ignore in my opinion. Considering Ff was a fishing guide, he would know where and how to do this safely.

          • Why thank you, Jake.
            I’m kind of surprised that we haven’t run across each other yet, as We are in the same ballpark.

      • I think cold is basically the gold. It was your effort that got you to it. It might just be an illusion we place upon ourselves to think it has to be related to warm in some manner of temperature.

        Brave and in the wood might refer to “in there” But, I also think it’s reference to NPFTM.

        • OK Seeker,
          When you find the chest, you keep the cold gold and give everything else to me seeing the other things in the chest are not worth your effort.

          • You do understand the need for the rhyme.. right? IT in poem form.
            Bronze is cold, gold is cold, precious stones are cold to the touch… your effort will be worth the treasure… IF you are here ~ brave and in the wood, not woods… As I have gone alone in there. Which references NPFTM.

          • Last week you didn’t care about the non rhyming “halt” and “walk” and now you think it’s important to rhyme.
            I’m going to check to see if I took my meds and you should too. If I didn’t know any better, I’d say you have a new role.

      • Hi Veronica,

        Although I haven’t precisely involved any clues that confirm it I too think we’re going to get wet.

        I’m not sure if we can read anything in the sentence structure of the Fundamental Guidelines – https://dalneitzel.com/2016/02/05/fundamental-guidelines/

        But if you can, Forrest says, “If you are going into rough country…”. When he talks about water he doesn’t say “If” he says “When” – “It is always a good idea to wear a personal flotation device (PFD) when you enter fast moving water. even if you are a strong swimmer.” He could have easily said *If you are going into fast moving water…* so perhaps its not an if it is a when?

        “The person who finds the treasure will have studied the poem over and over, and thought, and analyzed and moved with confidence….” Moved with confidence always makes me think of Simms wading boots.

        “…Wearing waders in fast moving water is dangerous, especially if you don’t have the chest type with a tight belt around your chest that will keep most of the water out if you should fall. The rocks in most moving water are slippery and falling is easy. Your waders should have felt soles and not rubber. Don’t take chances, and remember that in many cases no can be a better answer than yes….”

        When it comes to river safety educate yourself with all the great videos online (both fishing and kayaking). Consider footwear, wading staffs (look at the cover of TFTW, Forrest doesn’t generally walk with a staff does he?), etc. If price is a deterrent consider making your own wading cleats with an old pair of thick soled (must be very thick) hiking boots and 3/8″ Kold Kutter cleats (felt is being outlawed in more and more regions). Take the time to talk to fishermen, fishing guides, kayakers, they are all friendly people ask them what they know about wading safety. Fishermen and kayakers build their experience over time, there is no replacement for that. I’m not qualified to offer you actual safety advice online but a tip would be if you ever found yourself off your feet in deep fast water, and you are wearing a PFD (as instructed by Forrest), position yourself on your back with your feet downstream and maneuver yourself towards an eddy or slow moving shallow water as quickly as possible (but be cognizant of not completely depleting your energy as well as the time for hypothermia onset). Swollen and flooded rivers are a no go.

        Your efforts will be worth the cold but its no place for the meek.

        • Very good advice here, Ag! I have been in those fast-moving stream in Montana and Wyoming, and they are no joke. No one should underestimate the force of those waters especially during spring runoff. I have made friends with some fishing guides along the way and I hope anyone who is crossing fast-moving water takes the necessary precaution. Don’t do anything to put yourself in danger, Forrest has stated this over and over again .
          Thank you for your comment, and I believe anyone who is planning on crossing any water should read your info

          • Ooops, forgot to say feet downstream, toes to the surface, don’t stand up until you are certain the water is shallow enough and the current is slow enough (that’s why I shouldn’t be offering safety advice)

    • Jake – where I live there Is another town north of here – and we are always 3 or 4 degree warmer – its about 40 miles away – but the gasoline is cheaper there then it is here- so if I want cheaper gas wouldn’t my efforts be worth the cold – I guess what im trying to say -is that the tc is not at the blaze – but keep going north away from the blaze- and your efforts will be worth the cold

      • frank: “we are always 3 or 4 degree warmer”.
        When you find the blaze, you keep heading north, not me. I’m going to look quickly down.

        • Jake – that’s good to look quickly down – that to me means to look north for the tc from the blaze but not far from there

          • So your saying “Your effort will be worth the cold.” means to keep going north away from the blaze.
            “Look quickly down” means to look north for the treasure.
            Seems redundant and a waste of one of those lines in the poem.

            How do you get “north” from either of those lines in the poem?

          • Jake—
            You can go North if you want….

            I’m traveling East, brother…. just following that star…..

          • Billy, Pay attention.
            I didn’t say I’m going north, frank did. LOL
            What kinda detective are you?

          • Jake from the blaze you still have to go north to in the wood- to me its the blaze then its in the wood where the tc is

    • Mr. Jake-

      Mr. f is saying,…following his trail will be worth it….using cold as in “the trail went cold” IMO

      Does that help?

      Best regards;


        • Jake…Jake…..
          We mock what we don’t understand.
          I hope you are kidding otherwise you might be left out in the cold….or maybe left field….

          • Billy,
            We are worlds apart maybe even in different universes.
            I don’t agree with 99% of your interpretations and probably never will. Maybe we should part ways.

          • Jake–
            The words you wrote were the kindest complement anyone has given me on the blog. However, instead of disagreeing with me 99% of the time, I was hoping like 99.99%.
            I think the man put it best when he said something like….”if you’re not the lead dog, the view rarely changes”

            Thank you;

            1f Billy

          • Billy,
            I see you have eaten my yellow snow cone behind me.
            My home of brown has more flavor to your liking.

      • Your (we as searchers) effort will be worth the cold…what if the finder’s effort creates a contentious situation for Fenn? Maybe it’s HIM that ends up in the “cold,” “cold shoulder,” in the dog hause?

        IMO …there is more to the contents of the box than meets the mind (mind cuz I’ve not seen the goodies).

    • Jake, there are many definitions for the word cold. The one I use is “Your effort will be worth the (objective). jmo

      • Afana

        We don’t normally converse.

        In the poem this line means that F withdraws his claim.

        In the subsequent line he transfers the title.

        He is using the classical Here Ye. A legitimate legal form to this day.

        This is why there is one too many stanzas for the classic ballad form.

        Oh, I should say in my pinion.

        • Lugnutz, I understood Jakes question to be about the one line “Your effort will be worth the cold.” Your reply leaves me wondering who’s more confused. Oh! if you enjoy singing or dancing while reciting the poem; get your groove on.

      • Ms. Veronica–

        In my opinion, we indeed need to “ford” a creek (don’t attempt it during spring run off) prior to the finish. Do you remember Mr. f saying Rusty would follow him everywhere, even if that meant he had to swim for it? IMO It’s not too deep but deeper than Rusty’s legs.


        • Sheriff, my thinking as well. Last year I made the mistake of going in June, and of course spring runoff was still very high. I guess you have to take your window when you can

  34. I’m sorry to say this, but a 80 year old man with 20 pounds on his back has ever crossed the water, twice in an afternoon from the car to the hiding place and back with his wet pants on, don’t you think? People could have watched him doing that, and thought what the **** this old man is doing, is he crazy or what?
    That’s why I think he followed the existing trail from the parking lot to the hiding place, going down the trail (he used “the creek”) with the 20 pounds on his back, but with empty backpack when he was coming up the trail. He couldn’t have done it if he had to first walk up the trail with the treasure on his back. And he would not walk up the creek if there was no trail available IMO.
    — MK

      • I agree with Jake, don’t sell ff so short, after being sick, he got himself strong again, it is human nature. My Dad was a house painter, and could carry 2, 5 gallon buckets of paint at once, or a 36 ft. extension ladder, and set it by himself and he was 75 at the time. Dad at 76 had a stroke that took most his vision. Never saw him more frustrated that he could not paint anymore. So he had to be happy moving furniture when mom wanted it done, or shoveling and raking gravel in the driveway ruts. Oh they may stop and rest more often, but they could get it done.

        • greg, you sparked my brain and was wondering why he didn’t take all 42 pounds and just take more breaks and rest more often?

          • A good man knows his limitations, the distance he walked was not all flat pathway. May required some small amount climbing or balancing to place it. He just said, no extreme inclines, so no rock climbing or repelling. He could walk up hill and down, you know how the footing changes within just a few feet. From gravel under foot, to bush and fallen limbs and even moss. 42 lbs was pushing it, since not on a well traveled path. Not a stroll up the street to Walmart…LOL

          • Ya greg, My best guess is that it’s not a flat surface like a sidewalk. Maybe 42 pounds is too much at once for him and if he fell, he would probably have to take the backpack off and if he fell in a creek with a deep spot, the weight could drown him. I’m sure it’s a lot easier to get back to your feet with 22 pounds opposed to 42 or 44.

          • four full plastic gallon milk jugs –

            combined dimension – 12″ x 12″ x 10″

            combined weight – about 34.5 lbs

            an experimental approximation anyone can play around with on their next trip to the grocery

          • Jake ff is all about planning and safety, from his days in the USAF, and even the way he sold his art, he is always well thought out with a plan.

          • JA Kraven


            Can you imagine Jake Faulker fording a creek carrying 4 or 6 gallon jugs of water?


    • He would cross the water 4 times.
      Once to the spot
      Once back to the car
      Again to the spot
      Again to see if the car

      • lugnutz, 1 trip to his from his car to his dingy, once across the water, then to hid, trip back to car to get the gold, and 2nd back across the water to the hid. Back to the car to go leave. Why not a 100 yards? greg

        • Greg –

          I was saying your father did not ever for any reason in the course of his job or business as a painter ever walk a mile with 2 five gallon jugs or a 35 foot latter.

          So it’s not a good example of what Fenn could have done with his backpack.

          Your father also never walked even 100 yards with his painting materials, right? If he did I would question the job.

          • 2, 5 gallons buckets of paint weigh much more the 42 lbs. a 36 ft extension ladder is about 65lbs. I was saying guys this age know the tricks how to get a job done. They plan ahead knowing what their abilities are. FF had it worked out in his head exactly what he was going to do. FF was not walking on a side walk where he was going, he knows the footing changes all the time. he knew to go easy and steady, and rest when needed. I think he knew he could handle the 22 lb. backpack, this was a man on a mission, and he knows how to get things done. FF did not get to be 88 by being a wussie. He had always stayed in good shape while in the USAF, and rebounded after the cancer. In 2016 I had cancer dropped from 180 lbs. to 155. 6 months after surgery with a good diet and exercise, I fully rebounded at the age of 65. What I will be able to do when I am 80, don’t know for sure, but where there is a will there is a way.

          • Lugs,

            I agree with greg to a point. We shouldn’t under estimate fenn’s ‘age’.
            I just had a roof replaced. The twenties something guys were utilizing a motorized ladder lift to bring the 65lbs bundle of shingles to the top.
            A 56 year old guy put me, and them youngins to shame when he slung a bundle on his shoulders, walked about 100′ where the bundle were, to the house, climbed a 20 ft ladder, rinsed and repeat 8 or 10 times in a row before nailing the shingles in place… before the 20 yr olds had 4 or 5 bundles up the elevator…

            Make matter more embarrassing, the man only stood about 5’5″ and weight about a buck 140ish. Sure, there’s a difference between 56 and at almost eighty…
            But to be perfectly honest… 20lbs in a backpack is not a big deal. Most hikers, of all different ages, carry more [ and fenn was a hiker ]. Most folks should be ashamed if this is too hard for them to do.
            LOL I seen women carrying their 20lbs baby on one arm and heavy bags on the other for hours Christmas shopping, hiking from one end of a mall to another… following the trail markers [SALE]… in heels… and still manage to be texting on their idiot machines… then again, they seem to be on a mission as well.

            Don’t go where an eighty yrs old carrying a heavy pack-back is like saying… don’t plan on swimming, repelling, climbing the stairs at the Statue of Liberty, twice .. and fenn already said; if your walking far distances in your solve.. get a new solve.
            I mean, if a three years old would need some assistance, and [using second hand information] a person in a wheel chair might need some help. How bad can the travel be?

            Note; that comment about long or far distances didn’t say find alternative transportation.. lol.. just an observation.

          • Seeker

            Dude the Fenn man is telling us he didn’t walk far.

            These guys are free to walk as far they want.

            Most don’t read the poem correctly. Someone got it right recently.

            From there is a reference to wwwh. They can’t get it and they won’t get it and each year F will repeat.

            They started correctly and walked past.

          • Oh! I agree lugz,
            Pretty much anyone who has been at the first probably walked by everything else. I have said that for a while now. But, I’m gonna revise my comment and say; they all walked away from the clues. [ basically saying what fenn said; they didn’t quit, they left the poem ].
            I really think this whole thing unfolds in a very small area. The only real hike is to get to that area… but even then, I don’t think it’s much more than 1/4 mile one way. The idea of nailing down WWH, in my mind is that certainty of the “location” beforehand. IMO that refer to all the clues… not just clue one.

  35. Jake it says if you are brave in the wood ill give you title to the gold – it doesn’t say if you are brave and at the blaze ill give you title to the gold

    • Maybe the blaze is in the wood???
      It also doesn’t say if you found the blaze go north to where the treasure is.

      • Jake you have a good point – but I don’t think that the blaze is in the wood – from the blaze it says but terryscant with marvel gaze to me this means keep going and looking and if you find it take the chest and go in peace by then you should be in the cold and in the wood – FF said that the tc is north of sants fe to me this means that every clue is north of each other even the tc is north of the clues that is the last place you go to and the highest in elevation and that’s not up its north

        • frank;

          I have difficulty understanding your logic.

          Begin it WWWH and take it in the canyon DOWN. How is DOWN north? NF,BTFTW, Put in below the hoB. From there it’s no place for the meek. This implies (to many) a change of direction. If we are heading north (down) the canyon, and we change direction, how can we still be heading north? Just curious – JDA

          • JDA wwwh is at the bottom of the canyon ( canyon down ) and its below hob meaning that wwwh is at the bottom of the canyon or east of hob so from wwwh you go west to hob where you start going north where the rest of the clues are hob and wwwh are not close to each other they are not far from each other but to far to walk

          • frank – What you say above directly contridicts your previous post: “sants fe to me this means that EVERY clue is north of each other even the tc.

            You say: “and its below hob meaning that wwwh is at the bottom of the canyon or east of hob so from wwwh you go west to hob where you start going north” Are you saying that wwwh and hoB are NOT clues? Sorry, your posts just make no sense to me – JMO – JDA

          • JDA – im sorry that you don’t understand I did not say that wwwh and hob are not clues that is something that you have to find on your own and so far you haven’t done a good job- you will not know if you have the right wwwh or hob with out the other

          • frank;

            All I have are your posts. You say that every clue is pointed north, and yet you way wwwh is east then hob is west – you are contradicting yourself – that is all I am saying. and, frank, you have absolutely no idea as to whether I have done a good job or not – and THAT is a fact, not an opinion – JDA

          • omg JDA – I try to be nice be every time I comment you jump in with your smart remarks – if my comments don’t go with your salve – you don’t like what I say im wrong or something isn’t right – what I say is not meant for you so its best that you don’t reply to my comments starting as of right now

  36. “The most common mistake that I see searchers make is that they under estimate the importance of the first clue.”

    This is probably taken as an understatement… meaning that, according to Fenn… most folks are not even in the ballpark in terms of the first clue and spend countless hours on later clues. The illusion is self propelled.

    • Ken, that is true for every clue, you must be on each correct stepping stone to reach the next correct clue. People get things stuck in their minds, and can not keep an open mind as they go along. One must understand anything is possible at a certain level, don’t put on the bias blinders on. Don’t be afraid to go back and try again. Some never knew how close they were.

    • Mr. Ken–

      If most underestimate the importance of the first clue……

      Then I suggest when we finally figure it out,…..

      that to signify the importance, we put some sort of marker there….like maybe a monument……

      Sound like a good idea?

  37. The other day I had read (paraphrasing) a quote of FF: leave your pets at home/best not to take your pets with you on the chase.

    Why use the word “pets?” Why not dogs?

    Pets = generic term.

    So I guess I’m curious…Any of you taken a cat on the trail with you? Pet snake? Alligator!? Cute burro? 5 gallon tank of guppies?

    For some reason, I’m hung up in pets/pet store/keeping of animals this week.

    Anyone remember the Atari game Pitfall?? Didn’t you have to jump onto alligators to cross the river/pond??

    I’m sure Jake & JDA will tell me to get back in the box…ugh.

    • There was a couple of sets of people who took their dogs, and he did not want to be so direct. You are much better alone if you have an wild animal encounter, if you know how not to be a threat and not engage the animal. Dogs are more then likely going to increase the chance of a bad encounter. While they might give you time to get away, good chance of losing the pets.

      • Greg, you are absolutely correct. I have wanted to bring my beloved blue Heeler, Johnny Ringo,on hunts with me. It would definitely make me feel much safer being in bear country, but I think I would rather confront a bear myself then have one of my animals hurt.

      • You’re rightfully worried about the large predators, but all of the incidents I know of involved porcupines (many cases, all required expensive vet visits), poisonous mushrooms, an owl and a hawk (both of the bird victims were very small dogs). It’s way more dangerous out in the woods for dogs than it is for us. I think Forrest’s advice about dogs is warranted.

    • Jmeils…one answer is that there are places, such as National Parks, where “pets” are not allowed on trails or any place except a parking lot. If you research the pet policy in YNP, for example, “Pets are not allowed on boardwalks, trails, or in the backcountry”. The policy is not specific to what type of pet you may have.
      And yes, I have seen people hiking with their cats. Some cats are born hikers and trail their owners like a dog would. I have seen people bring ferrets and other unusual animals hiking as well. In Colorado, we have several burro races every summer and folks will be found training with their burros on the high mountain trails. Just never know what you will see out in the wilds!!

      • I’ve taken ferrets hiking — a long time ago — and I kept them on leashes and never let them out of my sight, precisely because I didn’t want them to be attacked by birds of prey, snakes, coyotes and such. I wouldn’t take pets into grizzly country, though, as Forrest has recommended.

    • My daughter takes her cat hiking all the time. Neechie also goes to the beach, swims in the ocean and likes to be on the kayak at the lake. My cats are sadly left at home while we do such things.

  38. While I have been focused away from the poem this week, putting about 100 hours this week into a community nativity festival, it appears that I have missed some “interesting” discussions on a birthday celebration and a few other things. Lol Sorta looks like a good week to be distracted elsewhere. Lol

    As many of you know, I think the HOB is related in some way to the sun/something named after the sun, etc. Basically, this idea comes from the fact that FF and his siblings would enjoy dessert made by mom who would slice bread and toast it in the oven, served with favorite jam flavors which allowed them to imagine the most delicious desserts such as pineapple upside down cake. FF described how mom brought the bread “brown from the oven” In my opinion, the sun is the ultimate oven or Home of Brown.

    So anyway; I was mulling over various other words that can also mean brown (as in cooking). One word that is a synonym of cook or brown is fry. I had not really considered this word, and I’m still not sure it is significant at all. But, I found the definition of fry to be very interesting! Did you all know (I bet some of you did) that fry is the term for a baby fish! What might this have to do with the chase? I have no idea at this point. But, I found it to be an interesting coincidence I thought I would share.

    On another note; I have always wondered why this poem has no title. As I’ve been working this week, I have been mulling over the poem. Is it possible that “I give you title to the gold” is giving us the title to the poem? We all know FF rearranges typical organization of words in order to say something we all don’t recognize. What if this sentence were punctuated differently? The words could definately be saying something else. “I give you title, To The Gold” Is the title to this poem- To the Gold? Just a thought I thought I would toss out

    • I have a brisket browning in my oven right now…I did “put it in.”

      Does this count? 🙂

    • I’m assuming you think you solved the clues before HOB and trying to tackle HOB. I’m not sure the sun has anything to do with HOB or cooking or baking for that matter. Although a big stretch, our sun makes everything happen.

      Our star is no oven.

      • Jake,
        I have 3 possible solves in which I think I have several clues worked out up to and beyond the HOB. You are right about the sun making things happen IMO and I think that is important to solving the poem.

    • Flutterby, I know TTOTC is the title of the book, but it is also a the top of the Poem page? Kind like when a title from a movie turns out to be a important line within the movie itself. Anything is possible.

      • Nope! Greg, TTOTC is NOT at the top of the poem page. The chapter title is at the top of the poem page. The chapter title is Gold & More.

        • Fluttterby guess it is just the copy I got off the one of the online sites. But npt that way in the book?

      • Interesting perspective Aaron! I really dislike fried trout. Id rather see them swimming than being served for dinner.

  39. I’m waiting for someone to write “In a word – No” LOL
    If I write like him it makes me feel closer to him and we are friends.
    I’ll sign my initials in case you didn’t know who said it. – JF
    Have a good night!

    • Jake,
      Wasn’t it you that was getting a private 10 person blog going for combining ideas and finding the Trove?

      • That was me ByGeorge and you do not have to eat a hat to join. We have some good members so far.

  40. is 42 pounds of gold worthless at it’s freezing point and the Blaze contains wood but it doesn’t just sayin in all these words yes and no and maybe

  41. I woke up this morning thinking about the word meek- I don’t think its a clue- there is no place to guide you to the treasure chest like wwwh- hob- the blaze just to name a few- no place for the meek imo there is no place to look for – I think it just there to rime with creek – good morning every one frank

    • frank;

      Since the line reads – “From there it’s no place for the meek,” Just the fact that Forrest uses the word “place” might be a clue that in-fact it IS a place that we need to look for. “From there” indicates that from the place that you put-in – is the “place” that the meek might not want to go. The question is, what kind of a place might that be, since Forrest has said that the TC is not in a dangerous place. Just food for thought frank – JDA

      • JDA if its a place that you put in would that not be like a warning instead of a place of its own

        • frank;

          As I read it, the poem says “and take it in the canyon down.”
          THEN – “Put-in below the home of brown.” Telling us that somewhere down the canyon, put-in.

          “From there…” From this place that we put-in we will find something. What is that “Something” “…it’s no PLACE for the meek.”

          The PLACE that we will find AFTER the place that we put-in is NOT a PLACE that the meek would want to go – for some reason.

          That is how I interpret it. You and others may see it differently – JDA

          • I agree with you, JDA. You put in below the HOB. Then you go somewhere that is no place for the meek…only because the poem says “FROM there”…if the poem said “Put in below the HOB. There it is no place for the meek,” I would be inclined to view it as a description of the general area below the HOB. Just my opinion. Always good to hear different views. Gives us reason to take a step back and re-assess our analysis of the poem.

          • JDA-the way I see it – is that there- is no place that is dangerous – so there no place for the meek – so there is no place to look for its just how I see it

        • frank;

          Just an idea. Maybe this PLACE that the meek might not want to go – but is NOT dangerous might be a PLACE called something like Rattlesnake canyon or Grizzly Gulch or some other PLACE with a scary name – Just an idea. JDA

          • Or maybe it’s not a dangerous place or a place with a scary name but, rather, a place that is just downright scary or challenging or overloads the senses or…[fill in the blank].

          • Obviously my personal opinion. But, I dont think “No place for the meek” requires personal interpretation. If, as FF says, “the words mean exactly what they say” then the definitions of those words need to tell us rather than make us guess what FF’s opinion of a “non-scary” or meekless place would be.

      • No place for the meek might be a place not to go to.. Its end seemingly is drawing near .. or pulling back to you. There’ll be no paddle up this creek as it is flowing toward you and meets heavy loads and water high.
        This gives the impression you are below the hoB at just HLnW… never traveling to NPFTM… it travels to you… your creek comes to you from where you are at- blow hoB. “Put in” is to stay put.
        Example; you are at a train station. the rails tracks are no place for the meek, the train is drawing towards you and to HLnWH at hoB…. where they all meet should be the blaze location, in theory…. Just replace the tracks with a water way,and the flow of the water coming at you. The creek is flowing from NPFTM.

        • Seeker – we have wwwh – hob – waters high – the blaze – in the wood – where ff drove to and he parked and he walked to hide the tc – which one of these clues are- no place for the meek – if its supposed to be family safe and he drove there ???

        • I’m not sure that we can assume that “the end” has to do with “it”. If “it’s no place for the meek” is a place we should not go then the end that is drawing nigh may be a move away from “it”. Consider that the it in “it’s no place for the meek” is the last time we see “it” in what most consider the body of clues. So if “it” is a river, for example, could it be that the river drops into a deep canyon that we cannot proceed into? Thus we need to make a change that follows the remaining clues.

    • I disagree Frank. A synonym of meek is pacific. I think its no place for the pacific. This could also answer the question of why FF thought a window in Mississippi was about to break. IMO

      • Flutterby – to me meek is not a clue its just a word that rimes with creek for me there is no such a thing as meek place- its ok if you disagree that’s is just what I think

      • Hi Flutter, I like the pacific association. If from there it’s no place for the meek, means that this waters will not benefit the Pacific Ocean and instead they flow towards the Atlantic Ocean. Is it maybe a reference to Atlantic City, WY?

        On the window in Mississippi I’m just not sure it is a hint. I thought it was a funny way to say that he was going to get screamed at so loud that a window a couple of states away would break. Why does it resonate as a hint to you? If you could share…

        • Mississippi—-means Father of waters
          Father is the head of the household

          Combine the two–IMO

          1f Billy

          • If we are to follow a map and the CD is involved… east could refers to nigh as; left.. IF.. we need to follow the path from north to southward in a ‘physical movement,’ rather than a map only, idea, nigh might be telling us that left/nigh eastward direction in movement is the way to go while we ‘hike’ southwards.

            Basically saying; the clues are married to a map, but ‘our path’ is of ‘our’ rights and lefts in conjunction to ‘our’ movement, as we read the instruction. Not unlike up can be south or down can be north, depending on where you need to go.. Fenn said to follow the clues [his created clues the way he sees them], and stated marry the clues to a map… do we actually follow the map or interpret the instructions while ‘we’ move a long.

          • I’ll add; fenn said the “poem is a map”… ‘his map’… ‘his creation’… his instruction for us to follow. If you’re hiking south and need to be on the nigh side.. isn’t left now east?

    • Hank,
      With a little target fixation and enough time on your hands anything is possible. Good luck with that.

      I’m just having troubles understanding how he was able to talk a number of other people into helping him. I know I’m 100% right and I can’t even get my own family to stop snickering and rolling their eyes when I talk about my solve.

  42. For several months now I have realized there was a religious conclusion to the chase. Recently though, I found that the post marks were snippets of scripture. I really have enjoyed deciphering them. My apologies to those who just can’t wrap their mind around Mr. Fenn’s spirituality. Like a true cryptologist, he doesn’t use the same formula for deciphering each post mark. That would be just too easy.

    For instance sometimes he adds numbers like in the postmark 9/10/1984. Adding 4+8+19+10=41 equates to John 9:1-41 a significant piece of scripture.

    Of course using the day/month/year format, he can’t always use all the numbers like with
    8/2/2017. That translates to Luke 2:8-20 a verse for the season. (no 17)

    Then sometimes he is just straight forward as in “My 2 Sense April(4) 25, 1937. The second sense is vision, which is the perception of light. (Christ is the light of the world) The fourth book of the new testament is John. So this postmark translated is John 19: 25-37 also a significant portion of scripture.

    In this Christmas season, and in the spirit of peace, I beg forgiveness from all the atheists and agnostic searchers.

    To everyone else,…. peace on earth, goodwill to men:

    All the above is the opinion of the Deputy and myself only;

    Merry Christmas

    1f Billy and Deputy Katie

    • ‘…I beg forgiveness from all the atheists and agnostic searchers.’

      Atheists and agnostic aside, you change the order of numbers and removed others numbers in order to have something appear the way you believe they should, to make it work.
      Is it possible that religious faith plays a much larger role in this type of theory than what we have been told?

      You call fenn a cryptologist; one who studies codes. {assumption or fact?}
      Only fenn has warned us; knowing about codes and cyphers will not assist us. fenn as stated he’s not religious, but is spiritual [ two different things ]. fenn also has stated; Churches [ countries, cities, people.. etc.] should learn the lesson; leave others alone.

      Are you not dismissing what fenn as stated vs. a belief you might feel so strong about, that it has to be involved, because you think it should be?

      fenn original plan was to commit suicide [ not unlike his father, and if ill again may actually do it, if physically possible ].
      In most religions [if not all? IDK] suicide is a big no no… you won’t get pass the pearly gates that way… right?

      • Seeker: good point on suicide — it’s another good counter-argument against overtly religious interpretations of Forrest’s poem.

      • Seeker,
        I agree with what you are saying here. But, would like to add one statement to think about. I dont think it needs to be debated here. Just please consider this. In my opinion (and many religions support this), a loving God sees into our hearts. Many people who commit suicide, do so as an act of desperation or to escape the pain of torment caused by mental issues. God understands our hearts and does not judge the way we judge one another. I do not think suicide “always’ keeps a person from passing the “pearly gates”. It may under certain circumstances. We need to be careful how we judge people who suffer from mental or emotional disorders. It is epidemic in the age group of 18-25, for a variety of complicated reasons. We should be suicide aware and reach out to offer support to people around us who may be contemplating such action, while witholding personal judgement and offering support. IMO

        • Flutter,
          There’s my point…
          We’re here chatting about possibilities of a challenge, ideas, and thought process that might work for that challenge… right?
          Some folks attempt it by using: their own education, professions, skills, trades, personal beliefs.. all are fine to try.. yet they seem to get upset when anyone of those ideas are challenged by what we have been told… fenn’s ATF’s, the book etc… the tools we have available.
          Your post leans towards the personal belief, bringing in mental disorders or emotional problems… when all I’m doing is having a discussion if religion is involved with the solve or not.
          It’s not at all different if we were talking about alternative transportation…
          only some can’t separate the challenge and possible solution conversations, and their personal belief, making the conversation ‘more than’ it was meant be… to talk about the challenge of solving the clues.

          I’m here talking about the chase and any idea that is brought to the table about that.
          I’m not going to tiptoe through the discussion because other can’t separate their emotions, personal problems, beliefs or none beliefs etc. while simply chatting about WhatIF’s in this challenge.

          • Seeker,
            I should have stated clearly that I DO NOT believe there is any religious solve to the poem. Im firm about that. But people should be sensitive when discussing suicide and should be aware that it is absolutely untrue to claim all religions believe that suicide banishes the spirit/soul to hell. That is not true. Suicide is a complicated issue. Regardless; Im firm that the poem has no religious solve. While I am religious, I see what Forrest Fenn is saying about his church bei g in the mountains. While I do attend church regularly, I would have to agree with Forrest about how special the mountains are to me too! IMO

      • Mr. Seeker-

        Very nicely written. However, The rules you espouse apply only to the poem and not the postmarks. The postmarks will not lead anyone to the hidden spot. I only have pointed them out to understand Mr. Fenn.

        Is committing suicide a sin? I don’t know but it doesn’t matter, for; “All have sinned and fallen short”. I too, am just one of those….

        If there is no means of redemption, land for sale in Heaven will be dirt cheap.

        Seeker ….consider all options….open your eyes..or change your handle..

        ” Ask, and it shall be given you; SEEK, and ye. shall FIND; knock, and it shall be opened ……

        Truthfully; I am not a zealot, but rather just trying as best I can, in pointing the way….


        • Change may handle? Why.. because i don’t read a certain book?
          Open my eyes? to what exactly…
          You’re not zealot, yet you’re point to , umm what? exactly?

          Does any of that BS have anything to do with actual ideas of solving the clues?
          LOL you seem to be taking this a bit personal…

          • Mr. Seeker-

            Res ipsa loquitur

            Postmark Dec. 13 1948 in OUAW

            Does he have to tell you “Luke, beware of the darkside”

            Is it a coincidence?…Luke 12: 13-48

            I am not trying to convert you…..just show you

            Sorry, you just can’t make them up to fit so perfectly. I’ll be quite…

            Best regards;

            1f Billy

    • Fenn’s stories/comments/SB are riddled with references to his interest in organized religion…but seems to limit this interest as a reference to the effects it has/had on people through time. I seriously doubt there is a religious overtone involved in the Chase…unless it is one that pays homage to a very simple spiritual belief that Nature is not a hypocrite.

      “One of the things that in my life that I think that I’ve been, not gifted of course, I hate to use the word luck, I believe there’s a higher hand. Yet tomorrow I’ll get run over by a train, but I believe in karma and some of those things. I’m not a religious person, but I’m probably the most spiritual person around. That’s the way I define it.”

  43. Sometime ago I suggested in the discussion about the home of Brown that every searcher should watch the movie “National Treasure (2004)” during the armchair season. I’ve watched it again last night to make sure that I caught every details about the movie and the relationship to the chase. And I was really glad that I did. First I’ll list what I’ve found about the movie below and the direct application to the current chase next. I really urge searchers to watch the movie.

    The heroin’s name: Dr. Abigail CHASE
    Where she works: NATIONAL Archives
    The treasure hidden is: Templar Treasure
    The treasure is worth: Over $10 billion (estimated)
    The treasure is hidden by: Founding Fathers
    General location of the treasure: Wall Street in New York City
    Specific location of the treasure: Trinity Church
    Treasure is hidden at: Beneath Parkington Lane
    Time to find the treasure: 172 years
    Number of riddles to solve: 2
    Who is solving the riddles: Ben Gates and his friends
    The format of the riddles: 2 sentences
    Starting point of the hunt: Charlotte, the sunken ship
    Key word in the riddle 1: Silence
    Key to solve the riddle 1: Silence Dogood letters
    Key words in the riddle 2: Pass ans Stow
    Key to solve the riddle 2: Bell Tower of Liberty Hall
    Hardware required: A pair of glasses from riddle 2, and meerschaum pipe
    Ending point of the hunt: Trinity Church
    Ben Gates’ fake name used: Paul BROWN

    Now the similar listing which is directly applied to our search.

    The official title of the hunt: The Thrill of the CHASE
    The hiding place selected: North of Santa Fe, NM
    The treasure hidden is: Fenn’s personal collections
    The treasure is worth: Over $1 million
    The treasure is hidden by: Forrest Fenn
    General search area: Elevation between 5,000 and 10,200 feet
    Specific search area: At least 8.25 miles North of Santa Fe, NM
    The treasure is hidden at: Fenn’s dearest place
    Time to find the treasure: 9 years (IMO)
    Number of poems to solve: 1
    Who is solving the poem: All of us, the searchers
    The format of the poem: 6 stanzas of 4 lines each
    Starting point of the search: Where warm waters halt
    Key word in the poem: Brown (IMO) (only word capitalized)
    Key to solve the poem: Home of Brown (IMO)
    Additional riddles: None provided except Fenn’s additional hints
    Hardware required: None, maybe a pair of boots
    Ending point of the search: The Blaze

    If you place two lists side by side, you’ll notice the comparison right away. It was too good to keep it to myself so I am putting it out for all searchers. Hope this will help who is interested to find the chest thus in turn finishing the CHASE.

    — MajinKing

    • The ‘National Treasure’ theory has been chatted about for years…

      fenn started the poem in or about 1988 by all assumptions. Worked on it for about 15 years. Some folks believe that the poem could have been finished by 2003 [written form]. IF so, what does that do for your idea, a movie, has such an influence on the chase?

      Even if we deepen the time period to, lets say 2005 or 6 [ because we have been told; he hid the chest at almost age eighty- 2009 or 10] … How much influence could that movie have had, with respects to all the prior years of work [more than 15 yrs], before the movie came out at the end of 2004 [Nov]?

      • Hi Seeker,
        Appreciated your comment. But with so many similarities between the movies and the chase I can’t help thinking that Fenn might have rewritten (or modified) the poem before he actually published it IMO.
        — MK

        • MK

          Can I see comparison in both… sure.
          I can see comparison in the L&C journals too.
          Or with Russel and Meek stories, as well.
          I can see comparison in the book for whom the bell tolls.
          Even with Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn…

          You said ~’details about the movie and the relationship to the chase.’
          Like I attempted to say or ask, how much “influence” could a movie that was release at the end of 2004 have on the poem that was supposedly started in 1988ish. I mean, there’s more than a decade of work that went into the poem.. then a movie comes out.. and there’s suddenly over two dozen comparisons-?- that may have been used to alter or change all that prior work?

          Anything could have a subtle influence.. sure. But fenn has stated; he wrote the poem, crafted it by his recalling of the location [not even a map was used].
          We have been told to get back in the box where we are thoughts are more comfortable. I’d like to ask what you might think that means?

          • Hi Seeker,
            Fenn said that he hid the treasure in 2010. What do you think he did to his poem for 7 years if it was finished in 2003 as you mentioned? Just sit there and look at it and doing nothing? I don’t think that’s what happened IMO. I think he kept on rewriting his poem until he published it in his book. He just didn’t want to admit that it took more than 15 years. Also I don’t think “National Treasure” got its idea from Fenn. I think it’s the other way around.
            — MK

    • MajinKing, thanks for taking the time to share that list. I do like it personally and it will be great if it goes that way. There are similarities, only while the movie relies heavily in history knowledge the poem seems to be about geography understanding.

    • MK –

      I’m glad you watched it. Thank you.

      You missed one.
      Providence is the home if Brown U.

    • MK, good comparisons. I see an interesting line that you brought up. Before I bring it up, the following is what it reminds me of…

      Mr. Fenn, Is there any level of knowledge of US history that is required to properly interpret the clues in your poem. ~Steve R No Steve R, The only requirement is that you figure out what the clues mean. But a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help.

      Here’s your line that compares with f’s answer- Hardware required: None, maybe a pair of boots.

      Saying something isn’t required doesn’t mean it’s not recommended to help out. Same as to say, history (US history) isn’t required in the Chase but probably recommended, especially when thinking about a comprehensive knowledge of geography.

    • “The general location of the treasure : Wall street in New York City”……really MajinKing????..
      I believe you meant Philadelphia.
      I think there’s more comparisons in the movie Indiana Jones and the last crusade. Just my opinion of course, about the Indy movie, the Philly thing is a fact. …

  44. I didn’t mention one other point in my previous comment on purpose. But if the religion is considered, the Trinity symbol (Father-Son-Spirit) can be compared with a BIG picture which may show WWWH-HoB-Blaze.
    — MK

  45. Just something I came across early in my research, I could not make it work for me, but maybe some one else can. When I read that FF mother died in Cameron Mt., thinking that would be near and dear to him. When I looked it up on the map, one of the things that jumped out to me from the map, was a mountain NE of there called Lone Mountain. As I have gone in there alone. Maybe one of you that know that area better, might be able to do something with it. Just some food for thought.

    • Greg,
      I firmly believe the poem should guide us, rather than outside info such as knowing FF’s mother died at Cameron Mtn. However; I just looked up the meaning of the name Cameron. Apparently it has Scottish background and can mean “crooked river” which sort of could be a crippled/lame/halting river. Any chance you would trade this piece of info for the story of what happened to FF’s mother?

  46. I have come to realize that “potential solutions” are like breaking wind. If you have to force it, it’s probably not what you think it is.
    But seriously, your solution should fit like a glove and not have to be twisted and tweaked to fit .
    Happy armchair season everyone!

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