Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…

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Please click on the comment balloon below to contribute to the discussion of  Forrest Fenn’s Treasure Hunt. Please note that many topics have their own pages. Please scroll through the blog to see all the discussion pages. There are also stories, scrapbooks, searcher’s reports general information, tips from Forrest, a rumors blog and even email responses from Forrest. So please look around and if you want to make a comment please use the most appropriate page.

Thanks…

 

dal…

262 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…

  1. East Coast Folks:
    Looking for something to do while waiting for spring…???
    The brand new Forrest Fenn Gold Medallion Treasure Hunt is now underway with clues to the hidey spot in the Appalachian Mountains. Find the rules and the clues here….
    https://dalneitzel.com/2019/01/02/ffgm-treasure-hunt-1/

    Jenny has hidden the first object and I guarantee this is easier than finding Forrest’s chest…but the clues to future hidey spots will be more difficult as each new medallion is hidden…This will be the easiest set of clues to follow…

  2. Of acute interest is the revelation of Forrest purchasing two homes that belonged to artists.

    Is this mentioned in anything that Forrest wrote? I only have read TTOTC and the poem and have steered clear of his other books intentionally. I am not sure if this has helped to keep the
    waters from being clouded.

    If anyone knows….could you direct me?
    I think that the locations of these may prove to shine a light on how much geography knowlege Forrest has under his cap, his familiarity with certain areas, and possibly other details that could prove handy.

    Thank You ever-so-much…there will be a star in your crown.
    -guy-

    • Is this a recent revelation? Can you site source? That might be helpful.

      Over a period of several years, he acquired property adjoining his gallery in Santa Fe, a compound which ultimately included the gallery, primary residence and three guest houses. One of these was Olga’s and is mentioned in TTOTC. I don’t know if the others were artists’ homes.

      He also purchased the San Lazaro pueblo, home to many pottery artists.

      None of these are in the search area, though.

    • Forrest purchase the estate of some artists who practiced in the Taos are during its Heyday. Snow Blind, but New Mexico is sunny now… and TT is stuck south of Santa Fe in 3′ of snow.

      TT ah sus ordanez
      !

      • 3′ ?!? Taking a stroll thru that will numb the nuts fer sure. Your boys will retreat to your spleen for warmth. I suggest canasta over impotence.

        • Aard, you are the BARD… Ha! Ha! FROZEN WAY SOUTH OF Santa Fe see: Sierra Blanca AKA Ski Apache has 5′ thats more than most CO ski runs and it’s almost 200 miles south of here. This is a real winter in the Southern Rockies and what we are use to, when I grew up it seems we had a lot more snow runoff in spring, either way the first real TC hunts will not come till June or later. I live at 7800′ and my snow thrower has burned thru 3 gallons this year already. TT

    • Guy M,

      I would think F was involved in a way to his own treasure hunts. To find a dig site, or looking for sunken treasure, or any other antiquities that he possessed was more than likely involved in searches with little information that involved knowledge of geography.

      As far as F owning property, to me is mute and not helpful in finding the treasure as most is in SF and below the 8.25 mile lower boundary set by F, except for Taos. If your interest is of the property he owned and not tied the tc, well go for it.

      Just Say’n

    • That was in the Santa Fe New Mexican news paper archives from the
      late 1970″s I think. One was Leon Gaspard home in Taos. Home was full
      of all kinds of animals. that made a mess of the place. FF restored it.
      Wanted to move Leon’s grave to the apple tree outback where he wanted to be at. The other was how he acquired the home he moved to the Buffalo
      Bill place in Cody from Montana. Henry Sharp I think. from crow reservation. I am sure long ago
      sold. I had saw there was a lot of private land right up and just in Yellowstone
      outer bounders. Like from Cody to entrance of park. Any thing owned by the
      double omega ranch. What I had though before I posted. Just rambling
      on Which I probably should not do. I Think FF blazed his own trail threw art.
      Maybe look quickly down at your own feet and blaze your own trail. Or you
      have your own power to be successful get at it. Bad idea for the Blaze.
      But FF has such a massive history to look at a room full of historians to
      put him in perspective. Check the Santa Fe New Mexican archives.

      • I better explain myself and not get banned talking about FF property.
        I was watching a Fenn you tuber talking about the legal aspect
        of finding the chest on the lands listed on the TFTW map.
        BLM. Reservation land no ownership there. And then another you tuber talking about over time some property even just within the
        Yellowstone was sold privately. I don’t believe that but he was
        showing private lands from Cody to the park limits. I wondered
        if the Poem solve lead to a land say on the park edge. That FF owned
        that there would be no legal challenge. Some thing he is using for
        the hunt. By no means don’t go on any of his property’s. That would
        be dumb. I guess I really didn’t have anything useful to say.
        My Bad..

  3. Almost done reading my Osborne Russel book i got for Christmas and let me tell you that is exactly where some of the twisted talk in the poem is coming from, in my opinion. I got a couple paradigm shifts from it which will help pass the winter evaluating those new angles.

    Wishing you all a Happy New Year!!
    🙂

    • That’s a really good book. I wouldn’t have known about it if Forrest hadn’t written about it. You can almost see the West changing before your eyes. It’s so very sad at the end.

    • I really enjoyed “ Journal of a Trapper “ it was very interesting to get a day by day account of ORs life as a trapper in the Rockies. I initially read it looking for a clue, but I have went back and reread it just for funsies.

  4. hey Jake Faulker…my answer to your question at the end of the last odds n ends section-
    yes, and its not a theory. second place is available.

  5. Happy new years all you wild and crazy kids. Forrest foremost.

    Thinking about intersections in 2019 from Forrest’s OUAW book launch. Sometimes folks need space. Space is good and brings the unknown to you door. Reminds me of wide open spaces by Dixie Chicks. Mistakes are good. Glad mine were left with the stoke if midnight in the new years. You?

    Odd end indeed…OUAW intersections. Worth looking at that video again I believe.

    Namaste in 2019.

    Peace and may we all find what we realky seek.

  6. Hunters please leave a painted rock anything that’s not trash in your search areas, something you know will be use or seen by another searchers or possible just a passer by. If you don’t want to mark your spot than leave it in a open park or area. Remember Forrest is a war hero who has friends and family take there own lifes. When lost in a treasure map we can forget about the pain in the story’s he has said or written. I see the greatest pain in my search it wasnt all Rose’s for me I came home shaken by the history I learned in the areas I searched. So many forgotten lands, and worse PEOPLE. Only takes a minute to change someone’s life for the better:) God bless and Happy Hunting friends.

    • Barbara we will do that! I just got one of my daughters a rock painting kit. I’ll take a few with me on my next trip. That’s a fun task for them and gets them involved.

      • JW & Tall Andrew:
        Come on, sheesh.
        Do you think, that the
        city/town/hamlet where you reside, was always there????
        Sounds like too much kool aid and no introspection.

      • I’ve seen plenty of rock furniture (like massive thrones), unnecessary cairns, carvings on living trees, etc that someone clearly thought would add to the “beauty” of the outdoors. I’m not even including the stuff that’s clearly vandalism. If you want to decorate some woods to your taste you should buy some property instead of assuming that everyone else will agree with your tastes on how to decorate public places.

        I’m not discouraging the rocks for kids idea completely, but I think that a city park or someplace like that would be a better choice.

        Batty, back when there was tons of wilderness, people could stake out a small section of it, do what they wanted there, and no one would notice or care. Now when wilderness is scarcer and each area is used by many people, changing those areas to suit yourself becomes an issue.

        Copper, IMO Forrest hid the chest someplace that is neither wilderness nor pristine.

        • It’s a punk rock the size of a small small fist. Please try to lighten up. Where I live the wilderness is everywhere and kids getting involved is a bonus. And, IMO, he hid the treasure that is both pristine and very wild. Are we solving poems or are we casting stones here?

          • People have been arrested in Colorado for painting rocks. You should not deface nature in Colorado, or anywhere, in any way or you will be in trouble.

    • What I have done in the past is found a beautiful rock from the area and left it where I was searching. It did obviously look like someone had been there but it’s not considered littering.

    • Art/vandalism. A thing created, perceived by one as pure good, by another as equally evil. A theme I find recurring in my search, my life.

      It’s appearance here shook me enough to write, which I don’t often. I am not writing now to take a side. I see the beauty in both. I guess I just want to highlight it. Point out – Hey! Notice this! We disagree so completely on so many things. How will we handle it?

      Please feel free to disregard this post drenched in personal opinion. But. I just can’t help but think. We might get a little closer to the prize if we stood back a bit from our strongest opinion and listened good for a moment to the guy with the opposing viewpoint. Maybe! Even follow a hint in his direction;) I think something amazing might just be hidden in the moderation.

      • Even, your response was very well thought out and if we all would think more like this I would bet the world would be a better place. Cudo’s to you !

    • “Leave No Trace” is what a lot of outdoor recreationists live by. Leaving painted rocks would give the Chase a bad name if it became common with searchers, imo. I’ve picked up and hauled out trash on my searches, as I do when not searching. I’m guessing non searchers outnumber us and depending on the area, might haul out a painted rock or turn it over or cover it up.

    • Rock painting is a fine activity for little kids, but I really don’t want to see them on nature’s trails any more than I want to see discrete doilies hung on nude statues in the museums (or in the Congressional rotunda).

      • Geocaching is fun! It’s not litter if it’s fun! Metal Detecting is fun! People drop things all the time. Painted rocks left in the wilderness is not litter. Remember the guy that sold pet rocks in the 70s? He made a million!

        • The pet rock was not painted, it came in a little biodegradable cardboard box with wood raffia & tied with a straw-like twine and had a funny little story book about training the rock… how to teach it to sit & stay, etc. The clever seller was a jr. advertising marketer and he and his wife picked up the rocks free at the beach. Every one of those rocks could easily be dropped back into a natural setting with no insult to its neighbors, i.e., ‘leaving no footprint’. His start-up costs (packaging, postage, record keeping, etc.) were a small fortune & the novelty was a short 1-shot wonder. Studied it in a business course.

      • Hi Seeker, Mr. Fenn has said that he wanted families searching for the chest. He said he wanted to get kids out into nature. He didn’t want to put anyone in danger. How many family friendly Grizzly bears are there?

        • James… really? is it Mr. Forrest Fenn’s fault that the school system has failed to produce anyone with the required reading and comprehension skills to crack the poem?

          i think not.

          • Bob,
            What point would Forrest Fenn be making by pointing out how sorry the public school system is when his Dad was a teacher? I am particularly fond of our public school system where I live.

            The physical chest is physically out there. Have faith in that and your public school system.

        • James,

          Just griz?
          I mean, rattlers, black bears, cats, spiders, wolfs, coyotes, Elk, Bison are not the most friendless of beast yet millions visit there habitat every year… how about the slob hunters that shoot at anything that shacks a bush… lol, I might as well get all the ‘animals’ named.
          I’m not following the idea of a habitat of any certain animal would be considered dangerous vs. other places. Heck more folks die in bathrooms than outdoors in the mountains from animals.

    • James, no.
      what that statement does is give you a clue as to what the “treasure’ is.
      obviously all four search states have dangerous mountainous places.
      so the question becomes in this sentence… exactly what is the “treasure” of which the orator speaks?
      1. treasure- as in treasure chest, the bronze romanesque bronze box.
      2. treasure- the great outdoors.
      3. treasure- memories of your family outing to search.
      4. treasure- the items collectively Forrest has donated to the Buffalo Bill Center of the West.

      can only be number 4.

      i think outside the chest. lol

    • James- what if i said this?….
      the chest isnt in a dangerous place.
      contradicts the poem doesn’t it?
      not if the “chest” isnt what you think it is. lol

      Henny Youngman….”Take my wife! please!”

      oh, the thinks you can think.

  7. Here’s an “odd” thing that I have not seen anyone comment about.
    On the front and back cover of TTOTC book is a picture of Forrest Fenn’s School I.D. card
    Has anyone noticed that the picture of forrest is when he was about 8 years old and underneath that small photo appears to be an old purple 3 cent stamp? The I.D. card says he was 17 at the time. It is also transparent. Anyone have an idea about why this would appear on the inside cover?

    • Just a playful admonition to observe. Things are not as they seem. There are tiny bits of color in the sepia fonts of the book, I guess those ink changes don’t cost what the used to in modern printing methods. Are they meaningful? Donno.

    • There is an age theme and a color theme, maybe even a rainbow theme throughout the book. Maybe this tells us they are related.

    • GB-

      Perhaps FF views this as part of his identity and is again trying to draw attention to Philadelphia. I *think* it is the .03 cent stamp of William Penn. “The name Pennsylvania, which translates roughly as “Penn’s Woods”, was created by combining the Penn surname (in honor of William’s father, Admiral Sir William Penn) with the Latin word sylvania, meaning “forest land”.

      Happy hunting,

      Kristina

      • The third sense refers to hearing. Knowing that I believe the stamp refers to this…..

        (verse) 17 “They took Absalom, threw him into a big pit in the forest and piled up a large heap of rocks over him. Meanwhile, all the Israelites fled to their homes.”

        If you look carefully at my avatar you can make out a large pile of rocks, covered with several feet of snow. I wonder if anything is under it?…IMO

    • V…the beginning on a circle is wherever you choose it to be, it will also be the end. Find where F started his circle then begin…..Didn’t he say to begin it with WWWH? So that is the start of F circle. IMO

  8. An open letter to Forrest
    Dear Forrest, it has been one of my up most pleasures to duck in here from time to time (almost daily) and see what we Fennites have “cook’in on the stove.Your creation of The Thrill Of The Chase has added texture,perspective,color,and a patinated glow to the canvas of so many lives.

    The knowledge that has been gained by so many in so many varied fields in our quest is truly remarkable. I have learned so much from the snowball you started rolling down hill. History.Geology.Archeology.Paleontology.Anthropology and a whole bunch of other ologies.

    Therefore Forrest I am adding some letters to go behind your name.
    OACO/PHD

    ONE AMAZING COOL COOKIE / POWERFUL HEAVY DUDE!!!

    -guy-

  9. The double Omegas at the end of one of the books is not all about location of the TC, they may also be related to some of the items in the Chest. Just some research for you that have nothing to do. Greg Shafer

    • I think he just adds them at his Colophon as a Greek influencnce. Colophon was a name of an ancient city in Greece also.

    • You must get deep into how Forrest thinks. Read it and think deep……… very deep. But go High because he say’s its high but not all the way to the to the top.

  10. Double Omegas turned on their side could be like CC, turn one over and put them together, looks like an 8, or you might want to check the Omega Man, not the movie. Or they just mean the end of the hints to the clues. Only he knows for sure. Greg Shafer

    • ΩΩ = The End The End = Double Ended or maybe Repeat/Echo. The only book association I came up with was of ‘father sitting on a cloud & burning candles at both ends.’ (paraphrased)

      • OS2;

        I know that the double Omega = The end The end, but could it mean the Beginning of the end? With the book (TTOTC) with his poem and hints, and with TFTW, the map and hints a searcher can start the quest, and possible END it. – Had Forrest used Alpha/Omega, that might have been too easy to see, so he used the double omega???

        No Omega in Once Upon A While, and yet the revised OUAW with one added story has a single, smaller Omega – Maybe signifying that the END is close??? Who knows? I sure don’t. Just guessing – JDA

        • JDA,
          I addressed your suspicions in MW’s “String Theory” Featured Question, before the coming OUAW revised was announced.

          • dejoka;

            Did you get any kin d of response? If so, what was it? Can you provide a link? – Thanks – JDA

          • JDA,

            Nope. No response, except for someone who suggested I have made such an assertion before.

        • JDA,

          Don’t you think it’s a curious placement for the word “revised” on the cover of f’s new book? I look at the title’s first two words as being “Once revised” and I interpret that to mean: “A Time in the Past Revised” or “A New Beginning”.
          It fits nicely with the added single Omega at the end of the book.

          So there’s your “Alpha/Omega”. Pretty clever, huh?

          Plus, there is a revision, where he makes mention of a finality in the preface.

          So yes, I believe the end is afoot, along with a new beginning for a very focused searcher, but what do I know, maybe you are the one.

          Good Luck!

          djk

          • dejoks

            I read it quite differently. there is a red arrow pointing up to revised so it is actually –
            “Once Upon A While
            a REVISED third memoir by Forrest Fenn.”

            On the spine it is “Once Upon A While – revised.

            So, no, I do not find the placement curious – but I still do think that the end is close at hand – much closer than it was when TTOTC was first published – JMO – JDA

          • You are right JDA. If I’m the lucky one to find the treasure, I guess I better start looking at this puzzle like you and everyone else does.

            Thank you for setting me straight!

            Good Luck!

          • I like that star that was added on the cover.

            One star, on the right and on the same level as the author, Forrest Fenn.

          • Highlander,
            I once looked at the new Star as confirmation to my “Once revised” theory, but thanks to JDA, I no longer see it that way.

          • dejoka;

            Each and every one of us need to look at this riddle through our own eyes. You just might have the solution. 300,000 + of us have been wrong for almost nine years. Be yourself – JDA

          • Reply to:
            dejoka
            on January 9, 2019 at 5:53 pm said:

            Highlander,
            I once looked at the new Star as confirmation to my “Once revised” theory, but thanks to JDA, I no longer see it that way.
            >>>>>>>>>>>>>

            I have someone, who’s inohury, who helps me see things in different ways. He helped with the star. I trust his opinion.

            Regards,

            Highlander

        • 2 Omegas = 2 endings or 2 ends close together. This to me suggests either similar endings or where one ends another begins.
          JDA, I also have wondered if Omega/Omega could somehow relate to Alpha/Omega, so could the it be hinting to the beginning and the end?

          • One omega=one horse shoe=kick=POW
            ???
            look it up on the uspto web site. kick=POW

            when “skippy got blown up…..POW!”

            Both (IMO) refer to POW/MIA

          • The other half of the POW/MIA is the MIA part.
            I have said that hints and clues from Forrest are 3-5 degrees removed from what is said. For instance..A featured question to Forrest on Jenny’s web site in 2016 was entitled “Fly me to the moon”. Now you should know there is a song by that name(2nd degree). The singer that made it famous, Frank Sinatra (3) . Frank’s wife was MIA Farrow(4).

            And there is the other half of the POW/MIA connection! Four degrees!

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hxibHJOE5E

          • For 1F –

            This shouldn’t be necessary to mention, but…

            Forrest didn’t title it, Jenny did.

            This is the third time this week that someone has found meaning in something she did as if she was Forrest.

            This isn’t rocket science.

            In order for Jenny K to offer a clue she would first have to know where the treasure is. If she did we wouldn’t yet be gathering at the house if Dal.

            Lugnutz

          • Mr. Lug–

            It is good to hear from you. I was afraid you were sick.

            Best regards;

            1F Billy

      • OS2 – I think that the first stanza is the first omega – the second omega is the first omega at the end – ( as I have gone alone in there )

        • OS2, first stanza, is that he got into his car alone, with his treasure, he knows where he is going with the riches, new and old. That is the first thing ff had to do on his trip to the hid. He then starts his trip and instructions at wwwh, then the canyon down. The poem is in order. Greg Shafer

          • Greg…and compare stanza one of the FFGM treasure hunt #1-

            twelve numbers you seek
            to reveal a place
            WHERE you can discover
            a hiding space

            as i have gone alone in there
            and with my treasures bold
            i can keep my secret WHERE
            and hint of riches new and old

            the poems are similar in that the first stanza gives you the WHERE and following stanza tells you how to get there.

            we now know that the WHERE for FFGM poem is Sky Meadow.

            and the WHERE for the “chest” poem is the Buffalo Bill Center of the West. IMO

            both places are geared towards children and families. we will see if all the other places to come for the remaining FFGM hunts are public places too and not wilderness. not far from a parking lot

            also, notice the guidelines and terms&conditions listed on the FFGM page….why wasn’t this done for the bronze romanesque box as well?

            time will tell. i think.

          • Bob-
            Forrest gave Jenny permission to use his name on the FFGM treasure hunt and his drawings on the medallion. That’s all…
            Please be aware that Forrest had/has NOTHING to do with the FFGM contest, medallions, poem, solution, hiding place….etc…nothing!
            Jenny made up everything…not Forrest…
            Jenny is a puzzle aficionado…
            Her blog is all about puzzles and treasure hunts…
            She is an expert at these kinds of things…it’s in her DNA..
            I think you are chasing the wrong rainbow when you look for FFGM to inform you about anything associated with TTOTC…

          • My comment only applys to the Chase and the tc, these new games are design to promote more interest in the chase, and to get people to visit locations ff has mention. These games pale in comparison to the Chase, both in cleverness and value. Good luck to everyone. Greg Shafer

          • Greg- I agree the FFGM hunts pale in comparison but, i see the FFGM as a blueprint for finding Forrest’s chest. after 9 years yeah, we all need guidance. a gentle nudge in the right direction.

            i think.

          • Green, I hear and see the frustration in many searchers comments. People need to remember that ff did not mean for the Chase of the tc to be easy. Not meant to be discovered for hundreds of years was his plan, and that seams to be working. ff thinks like very few others, and that is why he has done well for himself. Close is not good enough, one must be spot on. Greg Shafer

          • but but Dal….the poems are similar, wouldn’t you agree? in content and style.

            obviously Forrest influenced Jenny’s writing.

            i dont understand the wrong rainbow. i mean when Forrest wrote about following the poem to the end of his rainbow and the treasure, his rainbow is his alone and nobody else’s.

            i think.

          • Dal, I suggest you re-read what I wrote, I clearly stated that my comment only applied to the Chase and tc. Yes I understand that Jenny and other have created mini circuses to create attention for their site, what I call piggy backing off the Chase and ff. I thought OS2 comment on the first stanza was about the original poem and the Chase. I thought that was the purpose of this blog, but like most blogs on the subject, this has become a waste of time. I wont be back, and just keep kissing azz.

          • Greg! your writing suggests one who would rise for a challenge.

            oh well.
            see ya!
            (no, im not Dal.) lol

          • greg shafer-
            I suggest you re-read what Dal posted. I believe he is addressing “Bob”. I may be wrong, but I think he starts his post with Bob-
            I’m no genius, but I think he is directing his comment to BOB.
            Oh, you’re gone, who needs ya anyway….Bye-bye.
            (what rock do these one and done slugs crawl from under? man….)
            And you don’t need to end a post with your name, when it’s your handle…lol, – Charlie Ivey

      • Thanks all for your posts on the ΩΩ… Here’s what I think about the two omegas.

        FF’s original intention was that TTOTC (the book & poem) was sufficient to find the TC. The two omegas at the end of the book were probably not a hint about the location of the TC, but possibly his notation that 2 of the 3 parts of the chase were completed… A third omega would be reserved for the final leg, when he would announce the finding of the TC and write about the riches & the experience. (Things in threes’ seem to manifest a lot in this game.)

        But then, Fate blew a magic kiss to Fenn again, and the Chase exploded. Being a sharp marketer, and, to join in the fun, plans had to change. He quickly jumped on the train, grabbed the bananas…. & participated in Interviews, wrote SB’s, TFTW w/a map, etc. etc..

        That seems like a logical explanation to me…. but my logic tends to be a lot like Millay’s palace.

    • Thanks locolobo for sharing… yes, thank you Jenny for your “six questions” segment over the years. I’ve enjoyed them very much.. not only Forrest’s six questions every 4th of February, but also the many other “six questions “ you’ve asked us searchers and many others over the years… thank you…
      Have a great night Jenny …. until next time.. see ya my friend

    • I’m simply BRISTLING with anticipation! They’ve ever so altered and advanced the Chase.

      BRISTLING, I tell’z ya….

      …oh, look….there’s a squirrel on the fence….

  11. “Snowy days are a searcher’s enemy” ff

    – Amen.

    I bruised my wrist sliding (i.e. falling) down a hill and have two ‘frostnipped’ toes.
    Needless to say my effort was not worth the cold, although the Rockies are spectacular in the wintertime.

      • The forecast for late December said 2 to 4″ of snow but with the sunny weather I didn’t expect much to still be on the ground, but…
        There was a LOT, and more on the way.

        • randawg, the mountains are very deceiving when it comes to weather. Have you been using weatherstreet.com it has the snowfall accumulations by zip code. Looks pretty good on the map, just hard to tell sometimes. Glad your not hurt worse. Greg Shafer

    • I think that Dal has one to hide in his neck of the woods and they might do some armchair hunts with the others. It will be interesting to see how Dal sets up the clues for his. I expect it to be very different from how Jenny does hers.

  12. World Series of Fenn poker Tournament.
    When: Jan 26
    Where: Ballys, Las Vegas Nevada
    Time: 7:00pm
    Buy in : $60 with rebuys for the first 90 minutes

    Prizes in addition to the payouts:
    2019 FF coin #002
    WWWH Copper Piece #003
    1 set of all 3 books signed by FF and poker doodles
    more to be announced

    Please RSVP by emailing KPRO3@AOL.COM

  13. I think it has been over 8 1/2 years since FF hid the chest. We own farm land which has been allowed to grow natural for 10 years. The change has been phenomenal. Pasture is now forest and succession scrub. It is not the same place. Growth has occurred over all parts of the land. If a blindfolded person, who only saw the land 10 years ago, was dropped right in the middle of the land today, they would not be able to identify where they are.
    My point is….the chest must be in a spot which has very little change in the immediate area for FF to verify it is still there. Also, it must be close enough for him to view it from a distance without walking right up to it. Walking right up to it would jeopardize the chance that another person could be very near at the same time and possibly find it. I’m sure FF has thought about people following him to try and find the chest.
    I think the “forest growth” part should be considered by searchers. I believe the chest was hidden in an easement which has very little growth and is on a rock outcropping which can be viewed from a distance. Very little to no disturbance by natural occurrences.

    • Good point, Tarheel Searcher! Another aspect of forest growth to consider is that the hiding place is a place special to Forrest from some point in his life, possibly even his childhood. So what was once a field could now be a forest.

      I also strongly agree with you about a rock outcropping or formation of some sort as the actual hiding spot. It certainly would seem like the type of stable hiding place that could withstand the changing of the land.

    • Tarheel, ~ ‘My point is….the chest must be in a spot which has very little change in the immediate area for FF to verify it is still there.’

      While I get what you’re saying… I don’t think fenn had much of a choice of what the location looks like, IF we are to believe he only had one place in mind from his first thought, and was going to make it work.
      fenn has stated or implied he knows the chest is still there, but it’s only a guess that he could see it from a distance. I mean, we are told it’s hidden [ buried, out of site, under a rock, up on a cliff.. all other guessing aside ] how could he ‘see it from a distances’? That would imply its out in the open, right?

      He also warned us the the RM’s are still moving, and decades from now [ the 3009 comment ] it will have an impact on the clues. I would think that would include any normal growth of vegetation and/or new newly formed spread of vegetation, as well. So it seems reasonable to me ‘any place’ below the tree line elevation of an area is very pleasurable regardless of what is there now or not. I also have to keep in mind fenn’s comment of what he would ‘see’ and ‘smell’ if standing at the chest… While it’s hard to pin point a distance of smell for a human… my experience, you need to be fairly close. [ depending on different factors involved ; winds, the amount of vegetation, the type of vegetation etc. ] Examples; freshly cut grass has a strong scent, but not so much before a cut. Onion grass is very strong, and a couple of small patches [ 4″ round ] blocks the aroma of my flower bed [ over 20′ long ]. Apple trees have a stronger scent than pine trees etc etc. Yet, I could hardly detect those aromas from a distance of more than a couple hundred feet, in most situations.
      And not to start up this old conversation, but he has said he has not been back to the location after hiding the chest. So how he knows has been a mystery from day 1.

  14. I got lost fluttering about during the holidays. But, I’m back.

    Just wondering if anyone has come up with any good reason why FF mentioned the kid in school that gave him the jar of Olives. He said it was one of those long thin jars with a lid and it looked like the olives had been placed in there one at a time. I personally think this is a fairly big hint/whisper. I also think it is closely related to the hint/whisper about hats with holes in them. FF has introduced us to hats in numerous places and several he has talked about in his ATFs have holes in them. I find this interesting and wonder if anyone else has a good idea why he brings this up. I have a very good idea that I’m currently working on.

    -Flutterby

    • Greetings Flutterby,

      I am a once or twice a month peruser of all things Fenn. I am a fan of all you Veteran searchers. These two subjects ( hat and olive jar)are a big deal to my search spot, and though they give no clue to a general search area IMHO , they do fit a long string of hints I have uncovered giving me an overall theme. So I would just like to say that the boy waving a jar of olives placed in a jar is an anology to an event long ago when another came in his fathers name ( pg.23 TTOTC) , without which he would of had nothing. Jars for olives are short and they are never placed one at a time however a long jar as mentioned by ff is better known as a vase or a vessel and CAN be used to KEEP olive branches. These olive branches which can be held in a Vessel and used to Annoint where once waved in the face of an individual who walked among men in a Vessel that was Anointed . A wave offering to praise this righteous man who wore no hat with holes on his head but did have a hat that put holes in his head. Well let me just ad that like the ‘First Grade’ story in TTOTC this Anointed one also had a friend named John who sought after him to verify who he was and wave olive branches at him as well.. Also later in this chapter IMHO when forrest says it ironic that John Charles mother calls him a son of a Bitch , he is hinting at John (the Baptist),who’s mother was a married women and no bitch but Mary who had a child and had no relations with Joseph who was to be her husband was considered a Bitch since Jesus’s father was not known. So in TTOTC that would mean She should not have called John that name ” a son who’s father is not known ” this was JC’s and Mary’s cross to bare and that was the irony of the statement IMHO. If so what is FF saying ? Decide for yourself . IndiSkywatcher

      . Big fan of all the big dogs in the chase. I’m the little guru carrying the big Saber.
      .

  15. I may have miscounted, but on the “Name the kitty” thread, it is amazing how many “Lurkers” have emerged. I counted 140 + names. Many “Usuals”, but a LOT of new names. YEA! love to see that there are lots of folks out there that do not usually post – 🙂 – JDA

    • Yeah JDA, it’s good to see so many responding… there are many names to choose from, I’m glad I’m not a judge…lol
      Have a great day… see ya my friend

    • Hi JDA
      Do you have a hot spot for spring brake up yet? How much snow out your way? Man it’s going to be a long winter! We have about 7 inches here in mich. your in Idhao right .

      • Yes, I have a hot spot, but for now, it is pretty cold. Yes, I am from Idaho. not deep snow, but more frequent 1-3″ snow storms. About 5 -6 ” right now, but melting. – Stay warm – JDA

    • Yeah. All you regular posters are more famous than most of the YouTube folks, and you didn’t even know it!

      I mean, there’s you, Seeker…. umm. Ken. Idle something. Another person with aardvark in the name.

      Bona fide celebrities!

          • Though until the contest ends the blog is going to be a stream of entries on an epic scale

          • Half moon and Mars conjunction tonight! Another way to pass the winter is to enjoy the view we all can share (if in the same hemisphere).

          • Idle Dreamer,
            I saw the current contest as a hint the moment it was announced. But in my opinion, it isnt suggesting something extinct. It ties in perfectly with a couple of scrapbook pages which are now part of TFTW. Fits my current solve perfectly. All my opinion of course. -Flutterby

          • I really like those scrapbook pages in TFTW. I have spend a few hours of my life devoted to solving an oddity I noticed in them. I am not really sure I ever got anywhere with that. I am also a little surprised I didn’t see that pointer until you mentioned it.

          • no prob Bob (I oddly find saying that deeply satisfying, like watching people eat a candy bar in front of you for years and finally getting to try one).

            On a sad note, I couldn’t see the moon…

          • pd;

            How long, and under what conditions would it take to convert a skull of bone into a skull of stone (petrified)?

            Might this be a hint as to where to look? In what era did “Kitty” exist? Is this – geologically – the strata that we need to be looking in? What geological (geographical) conditions are necessary to create fossils of any kind. Man existed at the same time as saber toothed tigers didn’t he? Is this important?

            Lots of questions – few answers – JDA

          • Hello JDA. I believe there are different ways to look at this, should it truly have had a hint or two. While looking at the photo, we see a petrified specimen of the saber-toothed tiger. Could it point to Specimen Ridge? Also, while looking at the photo, one can see the specimen in on a wood table. Perhaps it could point to Petrified Forest in Yellowstone, which I believe in the same general area as Specimen Ridge. During the same time period, it could point to Mammoth Hot Springs. During the Ice Age, one could look into Glacier, too. There are other thoughts, but I think I might be holding on to it/them because I’m not sure if I’m going in the wrong direction with it and don’t wish to steer anyone along the same path.

          • The saber tooth tiger could be found world wide and can be found in the tar pits near Los Angeles as well as other critters. I don’t think there is any connection to the Chase with the tigers. Actually the saber tooth is a cat and not a tiger. So name the kitty is aptly applied.

          • Hi pd;

            Like I said – so many questions. You offered a few possible answers that I certainly had not thought about. Have a peaceful and quick winter – JDA

          • By the way the saber tooth was around the last part of the ice age about 10,000 years ago plenty of time to become fossilized. For me by the looks of the scull it doesn’t appear to me that it wasn’t fossilized, too much detail in the skull.

            Remains can be found intact to the point that DNA can be distracted, so no turning to stone.

            Just Say’n

          • Hope you are well Pdenver,

            I could see it doing that but not literally, as in I don’t see where the contest is hinting at if that is the case. Though the number 6 does come to mind.

          • Hello CharlieM. In TTOTC, “My War For Me,” page 86, one can find a photo of a tiger skin. I believe this critter was a big concern when Mr. Fenn was in the jungle. There’s also mention of a different cat, the cougar, while he was hunting. This can be found in TFTW book, in chapter, “I Wish I Hadn’t,” beginning on page ninety-nine.

          • pdenver,

            I’d think trying to nail down where kitty came from or even a hint would be much harder to nail down. There’s a lot of kitties roaming around those mountains. Isn’t that a rabbit hole that can go many places even if one tries to apply that to F?

            Just Say’n

          • Hello CharlieM. It’s very possible is hadn’t changed, although I’m curious as to why the photo seems to show a sheen to it.

            Hello Idle Dreamer. I’m doing okay, thank you. I believe it’s curious as to what Mr. Fenn had to say about his unnamed feline. Butterfly did a post which made me think twice. Should the cat have crossed any of our paths, what would have happened? Of course there’s a thought of the “intersection” he’s spoken about. With an intersection, lines are crossed, but I could be going in the wrong direction with this. I think the number I see in the photo is two, being the two predominant teeth.

          • Hello CharlieM. Certainly would be hard to tell where this specimen was originally located. I wonder if Mr. Fenn knows.

          • Hello CharlieM. There’s one more mention of cats in the Chase. In TTOTC, chapter “Bessie And Me,” he mentions the six cats sitting there like wet socks (we’ve heard about socks and shoes in other chapters) on a clothesline, which in the book he has it spelled “clothes line”. Each cat got five squirts of milk and felt blessed.

          • Should clarify my last comment. There’s mention of socks and shoes, or lack thereof in the book, not that all are mentioned are hung on a clothesline.

          • Yep, that is it pdenver, and if I remember correctly there are 6 kids holding the rope as well.

        • Perhaps just:
          Revisit
          Rethink
          Rerun.

          There maybe new riches in the old.

          What is it that soon shows up at a carcass?

          A Hint: “I don’t know how old she is but I do know she likes to eat disagreeables
          and malcontents. f”

          Hint 2: Coroners use them to help identify the amount of days as a carcass.

          He has many hints that could have been missed!

          Lol. IMO .

          • Just inside the entrance to the Denver Museum of Nature and Science is a replica of a sabre toothed cat, jaws wide open for donations of coins and bills. When the donation is made, the cat gives out a roar! Kids love it…it has been there a long time.

          • Alsetenash,
            Has anyone wondered why she eats disagreeables and not just anyone that crosses her path? If you do, then you are working on the same solve I am. IMO.

      • For me, the biggest shot-in-the-arm for new mental stimulation on the Chase was Cynthia’s shared revelation that the “home of Brown” is apparently not associated with a human structure. Nearly all of my hoB’s were man-made or ruins of man-made. The naysayers may naysay, but I don’t see any reason for Cynthia to intentionally muddy the waters (other than being competitive and maliciously misleading the opposition, which I have decided not to believe). She’s been just about as consistently upfront & open on this blog as dal, IMHO. I need to puzzle something out of this by Summer, but for the time being I’m still stuck in a mud puddle.

        • blex- you sound a lot like me.
          If ff didn’t say it, I have a hard time believing it.
          It seems to me that f likes to mess with those who seek inside information. I know I would.
          just saying

          • Emment,
            Do you believe fenn stated “don’t mess with my poem”?
            Just curious…
            Don’t get me wrong, I take it all with a grain of salt too. Because we have seen many comments from searcher who said one thing, and when the info was produced is said something different.
            Personally, the ‘idea’ that none of the clues reference would be involved with a structure and/or man-made seems pretty reasonable if fenn was thinking down the road 1000 year plus.

            However, we do have the one Q&A that said [paraphrasing] ~ Most of the clue’s references existed when fenn was a kid. Does that mean something physical [landscape or man designed]? Or does it mean a type of direction or instruction for a clue?

        • I don’t question Cynthia’s integrity. But keep in mind this is based on a verbal exchange that she had with him in public (Collected Works, I believe), with the din of customers and commerce surrounding them. It wasn’t a quiet, direct conversation in his home, nor an email exchange with her and his words in print. She freely admits that he may have misunderstood her and that she may have misunderstood him. An abundance of parlor games and court trials have occurred based on this phenomenon.

          f has had many opportunities to confirm and clarify this since her claim, but he has not, although it’s been a source of confusion of which he is aware.

          Sources of clues and hints, in order of value, IMO:

          1. Poem
          2. TTOTC
          3. Other writings and videos by/of f
          4. Things found stuck to the bottom of your shoe
          5. Radio signals from outer space
          6. Punxsutawney Phil
          7. Self-indulgent fenn treasure related youtube video hosts (so much puke being spewed there by folks who, by definition, don’t know)
          8. Things people say f told them
          9. Things people say other people told them f told them

          I think success can be had by sticking to just the first two. And being a reasonable person. And showing some imagination. And knowing the geography of the Rocky Mountains. And simplifying.

          • aardvarkbark,
            I agree with what you wrote. I would question why Cynthia even brought this up when she even admits of a very possible misunderstanding between them. What was the purpose of her even putting this on this site and in her book. Hmmm…sounds fishy don’t you think.

            You’re right, this an enormous source of confusion and Fenn has not said a word about it. So I am guessing that it’s not a fact and that there are human structures involved in the chase.

            Why doesn’t Fenn just come out and clear this up? He wouldn’t want to come out and say that there are or aren’t any human structures, that would be giving too much of a clue. Besides, I think he enjoys seeing all the confusion between searchers going on, and laughing as the logs get turned over. lol

            So to rely on hearsay, I’d say one would be foolish to rule out this not being a human structure involved in the chase. Again, you are right on.

          • ManOwar,

            Outpacker magazine [ I think was the name ] and a couple other second hand comments, stated, fenn told them WWH is the first clue, only some didn’t want to believe these sources. Years of debates rambled all over the blogs on this topic… until Loco discovered a “NewZealand” interview with Audio that confirmed BIWWWH is the first clue. Yet, apparently many, if not all, never heard of this interview… and fenn never confirmed the magazine article as correct or not.

            In a Q&A fenn stated; **Although I’m not ready to say the chest is not in water…*** Years of debates were talked about a water grave for the trove… until he finally did say, the chest is not under water.

            Even now, we debated the idea of having to go into a canyon or not… years after the comment was made {paraphrasing} ~ I can tell you an 80 yr old is not going down and up a canyon… {People/celebrities interview, no audio}

            Or the comment: { paraphrasing } no one should take anything of a reservation. {T&E radio interview} But some have searched these locations.

            Folks hang on to the thought that a ‘flashlight and a sandwich’ is still a clue, and have for years, even after fenn stated they are not.

            You stated; “What was the purpose of her even putting this on this site and in her book. Hmmm…sounds fishy don’t you think.”

            I doubt there is anything ‘fishy’ going on, but more to the idea that, some don’t like the thought of it possibly being true, and have it ruin their solution[s]. And if we are going to wait for fenn to confirm everything… well, I’m reminded of the cartoon of the skeleton sitting at the computer 107 years later.

          • Seeker,
            You’re right, Fenn is not going to confirm or deny, I don’t care if he does or not. Just because some of the hearsay turned out to be true doesn’t confirm that this story (Cynthia’s) is correct. It just may be a total understanding. That’s all I am saying, but what was her purpose of divulging what she thought Forrest understood or what she did. Was she just trying to help out other searchers? Or maybe, without knowing, she has or perhaps have lead them down a deep rabbit hole.

            We don’t know for sure unless Forrest himself says if it was a misunderstanding or not. So I myself choose to not believe there are no human structures in this chase.

            If some of the places didn’t exit when he was a kid then how did they get here now? Hmmm.

          • Hello ManOwar. One possibility where places didn’t exist when he was a kid but do now may have to do with geological changes, for instance, the earthquake in West Yellowstone and the changes of the river which created the lake.

            This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

          • You bring up one good argument…
            “The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did…”
            While the word places is used, The other part of that Q&A say; “The Rocky mountains are still moving and associated physical changes will surely have an impact. If you are in the year 3,009 it will be more difficult for you to find the treasure.f”
            Does that not imply the movement of the Range, parts of the range of the RM’s is what will be impacted and / or changed?
            Not unlike the Madison River now has an added lake {Earth Quake lake} that wasn’t around when fenn was a ‘kid’.
            This is really the only comment I know of that give us the idea of what does change and will have an affect… “down the road”
            Another part of that Answer states; “I think they might still exist in 100 years but the geography probably will change before we reach the next millennia.”
            This seem to clarify the idea of “geography” or landscape vs. man made or structures… because of the ~”movement” and “associated physical changes”~ OF the *RM’s*?

            I get being cautious of second hand information… however, a pattern start to emerge when many of the direct fenn comments are somewhat the same as second hand info.
            Such as the clues didn’t not exist when he was a kid because, he had not created the clues for their references. This seems to say; the clues are the only thing associated with the chest, and by that association, the treasure is not associated with a structure… and… it’s clues to find it.

            Just a friendly debate, ManOwar. But at some point I think we really need to take a long look at how these ATF’s and yes second hand info can relate and be relatively true in the hopes our guessing is at least usable.

          • Seeker,
            “The Rocky mountains are still moving and associated physical changes will surely have an impact. If you are in the year 3,009 it will be more difficult for you to find the treasure.f”
            Does that not imply the movement of the Range, parts of the range of the RM’s is what will be impacted and / or changed?

            Perhaps it does imply that or perhaps it implies that all of New Mexico will be covered with roads and buildings, as I believe Forrest has mentioned. Maybe he meant that the geography (the study of the physical features of the earth and its atmosphere, and of human activity as it affects and is affected by these, including the distribution of populations and resources, land use, and industries.) meaning that man made things will take over the Rocky Mountains in a thousand or ten thousand years. He doesn’t seem to take to these changes.

            When he says places it could refer to either natural or manmade, so I wouldn’t count out either one. Therefore, we are back to what if. Ha, ha.

          • pdenver, yes, it could be a natural place he is referring to but somehow I think (and just an hunch) that places are both natural and manmade. Each clue is a place, there are then nine places that he is referring to. How likely is it that all of them are natural? JMO.

        • Sorry, Blex, I mistakenly replied to aarvarkbark instead of you.
          Looking for Cynthia’s revelation’s location.
          Thanks, Bob#302

        • Bob #302, this comes from a passage in a book that Cynthia has written, so it’s not something that came directly from Forrest. In a nutshell, Cynthia recounted a conversation she had with Forrest in which she mentioned that she was using a cabin as her “home of Brown” and another searcher was using the ruins of an Indian Pueblo. According to Cynthia, Forrest responded with something along the lines on “Didn’t I say ‘not associated with human structures’?” So that’s where all this is coming from.

          Emmett1010 & Aardvarkbark are both making good points too on this topic. It’s nothing that Forrest specifically addressed himself as of yet, so I guess you can take it or leave it. I guess I have at least been considering it as possible truth, but if I happen to find a man-made home of Brown in an area that fits the rest of the poem, I’m not going to outright discount it because of Cynthia’s book. I do like the challenge of thinking of home of Brown as not man-made and seeing where it takes me; it at least seems like a fresh perspective.

          • Blex,

            Folks like to think fenn is hinting/giving clues with something in his SB’s, and yes, even in the contests. I don’t believe he is handing out clues or hints but I do think he adds suggestive thoughts in many things he states.

            With the chatter/debate as of late [ the hoB and a structure not associated etc. that has been going on for a while] I have been pondering if fenn may have chosen Little Kitty as a suggestion to our conversations and debates. {depending on when Da’l received the contest info}
            “I don’t know how old she is but I do know she likes to eat disagreeables
            and malcontents. f”
            LOL… could this be fenn’s way of saying, without actually saying it, that; the information relayed is accurate? And folks who disagree should be fed to his Little Kitty…

            Just something to ponder and wonder about.

          • Seeker, I wouldn’t be surprised if that was a subtle nudge for all of us from Forrest. Then again, he may just be asking us to be nice and stay positive in general too. Certainly another thing to ponder on!

    • I love that bumper sticker that says “My karma ran over your dogma.”
      In addition, I should say something about the chase. The word “chase” gets a
      lot of capitalization in this treasure hunt, and I don’t think that this capitalization
      is deserved. In the poem, I believe that “Brown” is correctly capitalized.

  16. Has anyone ever heard of a place called the Pioneer Club in Leadville Colorado?
    Seems like it might be a very interesting lead…

  17. Since I poked my head out from lurking yesterday, and Seeker asked what I had to say, I’ll share a couple of thoughts I have.

    First, I should tell you that I opened an escape room business just north of Detroit as sort of an indirect result of this treasure hunt. I figured I would be proactive and take a bit of Forrest’s business advice.

    Having said that, I’ve really gained a unique insight in how people deal with puzzles. A big mistake I made early on was assuming people would “get” certain clues based on the available data. Generally speaking, the more clever you try to be in puzzle design, the further away you get from people understanding what the heck is going on.

    An example of this is the early “in the mountains north of Santa Fe” hint. Many people believe since he didn’t include the map with 4 states at the beginning, that means it must really be in New Mexico, and he just wanted to expand the search area.

    But the opposite is more likely true: he realized he was being too cheeky and clever by just saying “somewhere in the mountains…” assuming people would have an “aha” moment and figure out it could be ANY of the many mountains extending hundreds of miles north. So he clarified by issuing the map we all now know. If he wouldn’t have done that, it truly might have been 100 years before people began making the connection.

    Which actually makes a case for why it’s NOT in New Mexico. Just sayin’

    Another insight based off of the above observation is the theory that Forrest does, in fact, want it found in his lifetime. Despite what he says, he wouldn’t have have refined the “north of Santa Fe” hint if he was completely ambilivant about a correct solution. Which probably means it’s quite probable it could be found within a few years or sooner.

    Not sure if this is a fresh perspective, but that’s what I got.

    Back to lurking.

  18. There will be a page for this to come, but I just wanted to put this out there…
    Fennboree 2019 will be held at Hyde Memorial State Park in Santa Fe July 5-7, 2019.

    Friday night will be a campfire and hot dog roast at site # 47, Saturday there will be a potluck gathering at group shelter 2 with fun, friends food and games. If you are interested in attending you will need to reserve a camp/rv site on the HYDE MEMORIAL STATE PARK website  https://newmexicostateparks.reserveamerica.com,

    Or, if you prefer, you can stay in a hotel in Santa Fe. Bring your favorite dish of food or snacks, and/or your favorite drinks for the Saturday potluck.

    This year, jdiggins will be your host!

    More details forthcoming….

  19. seeker- i find it hard to believe someone, learned as you, couldn’t spell emmett correctly, I assume that slight was intentional, and petty.

    regardless: if you were designing a poem, and you started with a fixed spot to hide a treasure in the vast wilderness of the rocky mountains how would you begin it.

    Most of us would look at a map and search for a landmark that would be recognizable and a reasonable distance from the target, and provide clues/hints to bring us to the treasure.

    If this premise is even remotely accurate, would you select a HOB, that was a fish stream, a bat cave, grizzly den, pelican roost, beaver hut, eagle nest, brown rocks, or some other natural occurring Brown phenomenon. How would a searcher ever confirm this to be correct.

    So continue to believe second hand interpretations of what f actually said, and meant. logic does not support Capital Brown being natural.
    IMO

    • Emmett1010;

      You say: “So continue to believe second hand interpretations of what f actually said, and meant. logic does not support Capital Brown being natural.”

      Using YOUR logic, how can ANYTHING in the poem be natural? Dow about WWWH – isn’t that supposed to be natural? Or a canyon down, or a meek place, or heavy loads or water high? Are these all – not-natural things. IF they are natural, you say that logic will not support them being natural. Sorry, your logic is flawed. If logic will not support Capital Brown being natural, logic will not support any of the clues from being natural.

      You might want to reevaluate your logic – JMO – JDA

    • I don’t think a searcher will ever receive confirmation about what home of Brown
      means until the TC is found. But if trial and error (in solving the poem) puts someone on what appears to be a good path toward the TC, then a good amount of confidence may accompany that searcher.

  20. EMMETT ~ seeker- i find it hard to believe someone, learned as you, couldn’t spell emmett correctly, I assume that slight was intentional, and petty.

    Really Bud? A simple key stroke typo [ N mistakenly type for a T ] and you automatically think it was intentionally meant as something derogatory?
    Come on down off your pedestal… apparently the thin air has an negative affect on you.

    You explained your thoughts for the Capital B, The reasons for using a map if designing a poem / clues… which fenn didn’t used. But never answers the question posed; Do you believe fenn stated “don’t mess with my poem”? You skipped right over that. No big deal.. I was only curious if you thought this second hand piece of information stood equal to Cynthia’s recalling of a conversation, the same as Dal’s, recalling of a conversation with fenn saying; Don’t mess with my poem.

    • seeker-
      No I don’t think these 2 pieces of second hand information stand equal. I don’t think messing with my poem is definable. I believe Dal questioned f on why halt was used as it didn’t rhyme with walk, whereas, HOB is not a structure, is a specific definable incontestable game changing statement.
      just the way I see it.

      • That is if you are reading the poem and interpreting the solve correctly. And again, any and most everything can be considered a “structure”.
        I disagree with the thought that hoB is not natural. It very well could be. The landscape from 30,000 feet may look to f like certain things in which he put into the chase. He did block out Philly. Why come up with that story? It all depends on how you see the solve, solve that line, and what you come up with. If solving that line you came away with say, frog, and the landscape in your search area looked like a frog, that may be a tell. May have nothing to do with Brown as a color or a name, or whatever. It’s such a “general” line in the poem, to general to pinpoint on one thing, IMO.
        I think you are mixing in how “you” would design a poem/map, and not thinking on how f would.
        “if you were designing a poem, and you started with a fixed spot to hide a treasure in the vast wilderness of the rocky mountains how would you begin it. Most of us would look at a map and search for a landmark that would be recognizable and a reasonable distance from the target, and provide clues/hints to bring us to the treasure”
        I don’t see that at all. I think most would start with coordinates. Plus, he already had the place in his head, didn’t need a map. He didn’t even know how many clues until he was done. Sorry, don’t see your logic working here.

        • Home of Brown could be the home of the Grizzly. Known as the Brown Bear. So put in below it, not above it. Thats why the treasure is not in a dangerous place! Because its below the area of the grizzlies! The Browns. That could be the tip end of the Wind River Mountains.
          One of my search areas. Haha just maybe.? Just one of my many ideas!

      • Emmett,

        I don’t believe the conversation was ‘defining’ only to hoB. fenn simply repeated what he has stated long ago… a structure is not associated with the treasure. The implied ‘idea’ is not just about a searchers thought of a clue [ in this case their hoB reference ] but the clues in the poem.
        However, this unfolds, the one thing I keep in mind is; days after chatting with some folks about WWH, fenn felt the need to explain that there was a conversation and wanted to level the playing field. While in this case [ Cythia’s recalling of a conversation ] Nothing new was added… just simply repeated; the treasure is not associated with a structure.
        Yet, Logically, ‘the clues’ are associated with the treasures, it’s the only reason the clues were created in the first place.

      • emmett1010,

        If I may interject, you said, ” I don’t think messing with my poem is definable.” If I said, don’t mess with my truck, you wouldn’t mess with my truck. “Don’t mess with my poem” carries the same weight as my example, Don’t mess with it.

        Defined of *don’t mess with my poem*, is don’t change the words, the stanzas, switch sentences around and the structure of the poem. I personally think the statement all on its own is pretty clear.

        I love all the speculations that folks say in regards to each clue and disregards to what F said in the past or information passed on to Dal, Cynthia, Jenny, etc. to us searchers. It’s no wonder its taking so long to find the tc. Prominent folks like Dal, Cynthia or Jenny aren’t going to mislead folks, there is nothing to be gained by them in doing so.

        Everything in the poem is straight forward and in plain English [paraphrased] and yet folks want to twist, turn inside out and come up with different meanings within the poem. To me that creates havoc, unnecessary rabbit holes and a lot of missed dart throws. It’s more or less desperation to find the correct place where the tc is at.

        I may very well be wrong, but I’ll hang onto the cards dealt. Proof is the only thing that matters. Even with proof, some folks will say that it can’t be, because the tc is not where they thought it was.

        So you see emmett, we all may be missing the boat, but there’s no harm in listening to different points of view. The hoB at least for me is a natural place based on a reliable person as Cynthia, even before her post came out hoB is a natural place, at least for me.

        I feel what is being overused is imagination, just because of what F put on a brass bell. One should however, use some imagination to learn wwwh and after that should be based on facts, that is right there on a good map, ie. the big picture.

        Now, just ranting on with what I think. Besides the *name of kitty thing* seems to be the topic, and not much else is being discussed. Sooo…

        Just Say’n

  21. My 2nd chase tools iPhone app is out and in the wild, also I was able to lower the unlock price on the 1st app.

    The best way to understand the new app is to watch the video of a practical example at the link.

    Here is the blurb for it though:

    If you have lots of ideas to apply to the search, but need a way to find and more importantly then narrow down the type/class and name of geographical features that would correspond to your idea exactly and quickly. This app will make quick work of finding those features, and only those features that exactly match your ideas to the area and type that exist. And importantly do this with confidence that you didn’t miss anything. This app was built to do that with ease because I needed it desperately and now use this and my other X tools app every day.

    http://www.pictureenginecompany.com/FennXtools/home.html

    • Writis,

      Others have done programing to create apps, databases and software in an effort to find the chest. So far, none have been helpful. Does this app have an ability to *reason* with the poem, or to identify wwwh, the hoB or what or where its no place for the meek with exactness related in the poem? I don’t see how that app can be helpful other than finding places named Brown. Heck the persons that create apps could be completely wrong as well.

      I’ll rely on my brain to reason with the clues in the poem, that is what a computer can’t do. But hey, thanks anyway.

      Just Say’n

      Just Say’n

      • think of the apps as tools, like paper, pencil or even a map as a tool. Use them as one should use tools. That is all, not as a replacement for someone’s brain, but exactly like how one would use a pencil in the search, if you had watched the video, the practical example does not use “Brown” as you suggest can only be done with “apps” like this, if one does not see how that example applies.. then they are leaving endless stones unturned.

        I am about as sharp as a marble, but I am smart enough to know that I do not think like ff, and that I am not thinking the right thoughts. I believe every searcher will at some point come to this realization, obviously, it is only a matter of time for each one.

        The person who does find the TC will use an organized and exhaustive approach with numerous themes, That person will use these apps or ones like them, (including any future apps), because the data is overwhelming, and an exhaustive approach needs… well tools. I am writing the apps for myself… because I have come to that realization quite quickly, not as a replacement for my brain, but to use like I am using a pencil and paper in the search.

  22. In response to emmett1010, CharlieM wrote upthread: “I love all the speculations that folks say in regards to each clue and disregards to what F said in the past or information passed on to Dal, Cynthia, Jenny, etc. to us searchers. It’s no wonder its taking so long to find the tc.”

    Then later > “Everything in the poem is straight forward and in plain English [paraphrased] and yet folks want to twist, turn inside out and come up with different meanings within the poem”.

    And then CharlieM throws in the punchline > “I feel what is being overused is imagination…”
    ———————————————————————

    Charlie … in my opinion you ignore imagination, and you won’t find the chest. Like other searchers, you seem to take a literal view, both of the poem and of everything FF says.

    If a literal interpretation is what’s needed, the chest would have been found a long time ago. HOB as a fish … (haha), yet many searchers still cling to this totally unimaginative meaning.

    Imagination generates “speculation”. And FF’s comments are not always “straight forward”. So when searchers “want to twist, turn inside out and come up with different meanings within the poem”, they are using their imaginations to come up with speculative theories. Their results may be wrong but at least they’re not going down the road of literalness that’s been a complete failure over many years.

    I have seen very few chest location theories that required much imagination. Mostly, we’re in an era of “copy my literal thinking approach since I am a ‘celebrity’ searcher”. This conformity to presumably safe ideas presented in blogs and on YouTube, to me, explains almost 100 percent of the resultant searcher failure.

    Almost anyone can take a literal viewpoint. But it’s going to take someone with a lot more brain power, and by extension, a lot more imagination to solve this poem than most literal searchers wish to acknowledge.

    And the winning ideas are not going to be splattered all over the blogs or on YouTube.

    Ken (in Texas) 🙂

    • Nice, Ken (inTexas). I was going to add something but then I read your second to last paragraph. If only I could understand what you said. 🙂

      • Hi Alsetenash. Let me see if I can clarify that one paragraph (in two paragraphs :)).

        Too many searchers want an easily deciphered solution to the poem, little or no thinking required. But that hasn’t worked. Yet searchers keep repeating the same trite ideas, over and over and over.

        Try to look at the poem in a new or different way; what hasn’t been said about it? Could some of FF’s verbal comments be interpreted in less conventional ways? Yeah, it’s hard. But imagination can help. Go outside the bounds of conventional searcher thinking. Be less rigid, less conforming, more flexible and open to creative solutions.

        Ken (in Texas)

      • I kinda agree with Ken {TX} on the lack of imagination…
        The thing is, when does imagination really kick in?
        I have been leaning towards Goofy’s premise [ and others ] that it all about being on site. The idea seems to relate to fenn’s comment ~ Yes, in theory, but not in practice… and … folks seem to be stumped at the 3rd and 4th clues. I think, solving these and the other clues may need to be done only in the field, because we need to see what fenn seen in his mind while writing the poem… imo… this is where imagination kicks into high gear.

        • Seeker, you wrote…”the thing is when does imagination really kick in?”

          from the very beginning in my opinion for these reasons…

          1. no multi millionaires leave treasure lying around to be found by strangers.

          2. this treasure hunt uses a poem for directions.

          3. many normal, logical thinking persons have discounted this treasure hunt as a hoax.

          4. gold fever impairs judgement.

          then, imagination becomes paramount. this treasure hunt will defy logic and reason.

          i think.

        • Seeker & Ken (in Texas)

          Yes I agree, imagination is a factor that is needed to help in solving the poem. To me it starts at clue #1 wwwh. The reason I say this is you have to use your imagination to figure why Forrest chose this piticular one. Now this is only the case if your only using the poem, and good map to solve this clue. In my case I found, what I believe, is the answer to “why” and the use of the “word that is key” in the TTOTC book to help with it’s location. To me, after that, proper research will help with “most” of the clue solves. There are possibly three clues where you might need to be, as you say Seeker, in the field, Then when you see the answers to those three you still have to use your imagination to understand that they are what Forrest is referring to as the answers. Those three are the last three of the poem, as I see it (heavy loads, waterhigh, blaze).
          Of course this is just food for thought, unless you are in my search area, which a few searchers have been, and were lucky to figure the first couple of clues but went by the rest.

          Good luck if your searching in the Spring time, as I will be out there then.
          Bur

          • Hi Bur;

            I agree with you. Who knows, we just might cross paths out there – I will look for you come spring – JDA

          • Hey JDA,
            Yes it’s been almost 3 years and a lot of research done (mostly confirmation) since I’ve been out to the Rockies. So I’m happy to be putting my boots on the ground once again.

            Good luck JDA come Spring.

        • Seeker- “folks seem to be stumped at the 3rd and 4th clues. I think, solving these and the other clues may need to be done only in the field, because we need to see what fenn seen in his mind while writing the poem”.
          100% agree.

          Ken- Also agree.

          Straight forward may not be as straight as thought. Imagination, and the “what ifs” will play a role.

          I like his comment about you cannot solve this by trying to solve later clues. Why not? If clues could be solved, then the only reason would be that you need a prior clue to solve. That’s fine, but how about the first clue then?

          Imagination has to play some sort of role. Whether it be in solving the poem or BotG. I agree with Seeker on the 3rd and 4th clue. And, with f saying possibly 4 clues have been solved, tells me the searcher was not entirely sure about it. Plus, f never mentioned the 3rd clue. That tells me that a picture was sent to f. Only thing it could be if even f wasn’t sure. That means BotG. And the 4th clue, even when there on site, is concealed some way. Enough where a searcher could snap a picture but not describe correctly what they see. Or cannot see. Only thing the 4th clue could be is “landscape”. IMO. That requires BotG. Any way of informing f about the 4th clue and f would know one way or another. Which means, from home, the 4th clue cannot be solved. Leads to, how can one be confident? Imagination, and a solve of the poem.

          If anybody has a different interpretation of f’s 4th clue comment, I’m all ears. As deaf as they may be, the only thing is a picture. So out there, somebody has a picture of the 4th clue. And doesn’t know it. Or didn’t know it then.:)

          • Poison: “If anybody has a different interpretation”

            some here would answer that question like they know the answer, I will tell you right away that I do not.

            if your interpretation is correct about “landscape” the chase will not be solved not only in a few years or a thousand years, it can never be solved.

            my reasoning looks like this: if a “local” who knew his/her area fairly well, and also happened to be a “local” to the TC, just by chance, and he/she walked by this landscape every day or month or even once a year, yet didn’t recognize this landscape as the “answer” to a clue. Then no searcher will ever recognize it.

            needless to say, there are “locals” who are also searchers in every single state and by now, every county of every state.

            my interpretation of the single 200′ footer is that he was a local, and simply went out on a lark. (and scarily, did not recognize ANY answers to clues, except for the general feel of the final resting spot, they didn’t even recognize the ‘blaze’)

            now one can say that they just are not thinking the right thoughts. Well once you get past a few 100 thousand searchers, after a decade or two, and there literally are a few 100 thousand “locals” at least active one time or another in every state, (like the 200’er) and none think the right thoughts… pretty soon landscapes all look…. distant.

            of course one can also say this about any method of interpretation. so we have that going for us 🙂

            I do know, that the people who believe that some how their logic is better than the 100 thousand searchers before them was. Well they are looking down a very long dark and well traveled path that only experience will break that rhythmic march of boots with.

    • Ken (in Texas) & others,

      I did say that some imagination is needed to figure out wwwh. I’ll add that, if you don’t learn wwwh, then imagination isn’t being used to learn why is it that wwh and where it is.

      I’m a fairly smart man and use my investigative skills to justify each clue as a matter of fact. It is very reasonable that if one finds wwwh that the rest of the clues are right under our noses. There is no reason to discount logical thinking, like things that F has mentioned to us to marry the poem to a map, a comprehensive understanding of geography and the poem is straightforward in plain English are all logical. That to me says that mostly logical thinking is needed in order to solving the poem.

      The poem is very tightly related to directions that can be found on a map. If one finds wwwh the rest of the clues most certainly can be found on a map in the nearby location of the first clue, it is a good case for logic to be used.

      I’m not bashing anyone that is a redneck, but F mention a redneck with a pickup truck full of children can find the treasure. That says to me also that a person that has a basic education can find the tc, a whole lot of smarts is not need, but the ability to learn is the basic requirement and logic is needed.

      I’ll give one good example, “the end is ever drawing nigh”, there are only two choices to make for the word *nigh* is either near or to the left, logic tells me that ever drawing near is not the right answer. Ever drawing near would mean one will never be near the tc. the end is ever drawing to the left means slowly going to the left and there is an end, which is more practicable logically.

      It seems to me folks are more concerned with clues after the first one. I wouldn’t worry about the clues after the first one, until the first clue is firmly nailed down, because it is a factual place because of logic, not of imagination. That is how I work and that all clues need to be nailed down as facts, instead of well it seems to fit but has no hard facts.

      Pure and simple the poem is the directions on a map that convey to a place in the real world geographically. The idea that one has to be very smart and it will take years to have the correct answers is only fooling folks to a sort of submission. What if does = some imagination that is needed to learn which = knowledge, but not all of the time because logic is needed with the poems directions, places and things.

      Is the poem tied to places that F has grew up with or visited? Logic tells me if I don’t want to be found with a chest full of gold and jewels, it most certainly *would not* be somewhere where folks knew I was familiar with, because that would make it much harder to find a body let alone the treasure and I firmly believe this is the case.

      If someone tells me a lot of imagination is needed throughout the poem, so be it. But I think folks would be better off to not to tie everything to the memoirs and to every word F spoke as a hint or a clue. Sure there are subtle hints in TTOTC, somethings that F spoke of *do help* as far as where not to look, ie. man made structure, not along the Rio Grande and not outside of the boundaries of the RM and not go where an 80 year old wouldn’t go, etc. Searching within every word spoken or wrote by F does muddy the search for answers to what the poem says.

      It’s just me, the primary focus is the poem married to a map geographically, isn’t this what its all about? I enjoy what F has shared with us very much, but I don’t hang onto every word spoken or written as a hint as to where the tc is at, for example name the kitty, is just about naming the artifact, yet some folks wants the kitty as a hint.

      I could go on and on, which isn’t necessary, because there will be rebuttals as to why things won’t work, we can’t possibly think like one another, let alone F. I think logic is on my side and not so much imagination.

      Over & out!
      Just Say’n

      • CharlieM;

        You say: “I’ll give one good example, “the end is ever drawing nigh”, there are only two choices to make for the word *nigh* is either near or to the left, logic tells me that ever drawing near is not the right answer. Ever drawing near would mean one will never be near the tc.”

        “Ever drawing near would mean one will never be near the tc.”

        NEVER be near the tc????

        Only two choices? I hate to disagree, but I will.

        Ever can mean more than once – not eternal or NEVER. So, “The end is ever drawing nigh…” can mean that the end will be getting closer more than once.

        End can mean a boundary or border – Thus, “the boundary or border will be drawing near more than once” (interp.).

        Let’s say that from the “put-in place”, as one travels down a road (by foot or by car) through the “meek area” towards the “end place” one goes from private ranch lands through BLM or National Forest land a couple of times – Doesn’t this describe “the end is ever drawing nigh”? That is how I see this line. JMO – JDA

        • JDA,

          Sorry to say,, it sounds like your going around in a circle, but hey that’s how you see things. As usual we disagree, you know where I stand, but hey again, both of us could be wrong my friend!

          Just Say’n

          • How am I going around in a circle? I go from the “Put-in” point through the meek area, and end up at the “End place” I just cross a couple of boundaries or borders between the two points. Doesn’t sound like a circle to me – just sayin’ – JDA

        • I had guessed that the end is ever drawing nigh. As Drawing
          water from a well. Related to water flowing. Ending on your
          Left. At the end of your quest or park your sedan. As say the
          river ends on your left. At the end of your quest is where the river will end on your left. The end is ever drawing nigh.
          Solves that are in Yellowstone. I Think are possible. I
          wonder if there is a Deed like quick claim or something in
          the chest. Have no knowledge if that would work. So bring a
          pen with you. I have just curiosity where it is at. One of you
          Serious searchers may find it. Maybe in a rock outcropping
          area. I like the Madison river area myself. Where would guy from Texas go. To west Yellowstone. My other Idea is
          Skippy. I have not found him to be a fly fisherman. Except
          in early years. Maybe he had his own adventures treasure
          hunting while FF and dad fished. Still trying to find the answers.
          Is the blaze a marking in rock. How would he throw himself down on it. Curiosity sounds like a good Name. LOL.

      • CharlieM,

        Logical doesn’t mean literal.

        A simple example is fenn’s Q&A {in part} about an 80 yr old is not going down and up as canyon. Add with; don’t go where an 80 yr old can’t go carrying a heavy backpack… and some other comments… is “Take it in the canyon down” to be literal? Or does logic imply “take it in the canyon down” as a viewing in some direction?
        The question here is; is that use of imagination or logic? Because, should we need to ‘look’ for something, it does seem that it’s not at all familiar to many folks who have been on site at the first two clues. This is one reason I asked, When does imagination kick in? If little Indy or any other person can figure out the first two clues with just a map of the US Rockies and the poem… does imagination need to be used when it comes to the next steps, on site, while we “observe”… Ken {TX} talked about imagination or lack of… I think we should be adding “observation” into the factor with “imagination.”

        Out of curiosity, and obviously to don’t have to answer … this is the third time I recall you mentioning ‘investigations” involving for employment / career. What did you do, might I ask.

        • Seeker, I think he said he was a detective at one point.
          I think with this topic we could go round and round until we croak. The thing is, and back to the ol’ point. Are we reading the poem correctly. Maybe imagination is needed BotG, maybe in solving the poem, maybe in the pics he uses, whatever, it seems to be all a side note. The real thing is that searchers have not been reading the poem correctly. That is why so many fail. Like Ken said, we need to change the normal way of thinking when tackling this problem.
          It’s not about starting with a map, it’s not to be taken at face value, it’s not about research, it’s about a straight forward poem. But is not read straight forward as we would believe. If it is hard but not impossible, easy enough to say “what took me so long”, and has stood the test of time for 8 years, then the logic would be in the assumption that everyone is still reading the poem incorrectly.
          There are instruction words in the poem, maybe that is where we should be looking in trying to get a grasp.
          On, in, here, with, can, keep, are, as, take, no, drawing, add, etc…etc…etc… And misspellings, sounds likes, etc… It just sounds to me like in the poem, he is telling us what to do.
          The fixation on trying to solve clues is the rabbit hole in this whole thing, IMO. In being at this for sooo long, nothing has panned out with the solve clues approach. Ken is right, a total new way of thinking is the best approach. If the poem does not tell you something, then just forget it. The poem will do everything. But, of coarse, the next write up we see will start with someone guessing at a start point because everything just fits so well, then the researched History lesson, then what they think are the clues, followed by why they didn’t find the chest. When all along, it is obvious, they start out guessing, and they never mention a poem solve.
          I posted about f not knowing for sure if someone has figured out four clues because that is actually very big. It says that it wasn’t written to him, or he would know, since he knows the clues. It wasn’t guessed or solved because he again would know. The only possible is a picture. And that is taken BotG. So how can searchers solve clue to clue when the 4th clue cannot be solved at home? Bar the foolish answers because it doesn’t fit solves, you cannot solve the poem going clue to clue. He has practically said as much in all his ATF’s. But that is what 95% of the community is attempting to do. (And with my..lol,…baby steps).

          • poisonivey,
            May I toss out a possibility about why nobody has yet solved this poem? Perhaps it is because they are not reading it from the correct point of view. Point of view is everything in my opinion. Do I have the correct point of view? I think so. But, I’m still not ready with a complete solve just yet. It is simple, yet complex. I’m still learning.

          • I think the following: FF’s “gut feeling” was more than just a guess, and that he has seen hints (likely understood as such by only 2 people) about having solved more than 4 clues. GE can be quite helpful; it even shows the location
            of Nessie. That’s Nessie, not Bessie.

          • Poison,

            While I have been an advocate for the idea we are reading the poem wrong… I also think some of the problem is about the process of how folks proceed with BOTG.

            The problem I’m seeing with the many posted solve processes I have read is; this need to stomp out hopeful deciphered clues and little or none in the area of “planning and observation” process we have been told / suggested by fenn.

            I’m not sure IF we can actually decipher a clue, as intended, [ beyond the first two ] without being on site. I’m pondering the idea the clues might be more visually subjective, than simply a place on a map. In fact, I wonder IF we can even map out the clues [ or follow them on GE ] at all.

            fenn has warned us; looking for later clues is a folly… Tells us; if you can’t find the chest to go back to the first clue. That comment seems reasonable at first read, right? ~ I screwed up, so I’ll go back to the first clue, and try and try again and again ~ Using the same process most of the time, only changing points or turns along the way.

            I think fenn might be implying more to his idea; if you don’t have the first clue, you have nothing. I think the first clue is what all the other clues revolve around in such a manner that, when folks walk away from WWWH to search for hopeful clues, they literally leave the poem.

            I don’t believe fenn created a typical treasure hunt of start here, go there, turn here, cont steps to there etc. I think this is truly an observational task [ for the most part ] IF we can “learn” what and where the first clue is, and see how it unfold with all the other clues involved. IMO, this might be the “important possibility” that all have skip.

            In a Q&A fenn responded; If you ‘know’ hob, why would you be concerned about WWH? I don’t think we can truly ‘know’ what hoB is, prior. I think it [ and all the physical clue’s references ] can only be correctly understood by visually seeing it,, and only seen fro the area of WWH.
            Hence IF, and that’s a big IF, somehow you could decipher hoB, beforehand, This would make WWH unnecessary… Only fenn had been very persistence in telling us we ‘need’ WWH or stay home. Without WWH we have nothing. Without it, all we’ll have is a nice vacation etc.

            Can the clues be solved at home? “Yes in theory.” A theory is just that, Speculation that needs testing. “but not in practice”… the need to be at WWH is possibly the only way to correct understand the later clues.

          • Hello Seeker. With this thought, do you believe it also falls in line with Mr. Fenn’s mention of “contiguous”?

          • Poison,
            As of now, I think contiguous as to mean ‘connecting, adjoining in such as way that if one piece was not present, the whole thing would fall apart.’ This Idea works well with the idea of an observational style process.
            It doesn’t work in a stomping point to point method. In that type of method, any physical point could easily lead to the next.. even if you don’t have the first point. Which make the poem flawed.
            I’m sure someone will bring up; What about the comment; which clue is needed [ or something like that ] ‘the last clue’… well, duh! if that was at all possible, we wouldn’t need any other clue at all. Hence my point. WWH is more than just a place on a map. Other wise we should be able to skip some clues… yet we have been warned that is not likely in practice.
            fenn has been asked many time about the idea of skipping clues or a short course that can be taken. The basic answer was; ~ the clues should be followed in order, there’s no other way he knows of. Then then; I followed the clue when I hid the chest… came out. If that does scream WWH is needed for a specific reason [ other than just a place on a map ] I don’t know what does. The creator of the clues stated he followed them while going to the hide. So I find it funny when folks say, they start BOTG at hoB or any later clue. Especially if that clue is miles away from the first clue [ and traveled to it ]. IF that was remotely possible-?!- then fenn’s comment; if you ‘knew’ what hoB is you’d go right to the chest, would be completely inaccurate.

            Sorry, I’m rambling again. Contiguous in my mind means, adjoining or connected… I’d even go as far as to say, systematically connected; consistent and organized in ‘its’ arrangement… as a whole, and not parts of it. IMO, WWH is synergy… it’s what pulls everything together.

          • Hello Seeker. I appreciate your thoughts. In the same line of thinking, would the part of the poem, “From there…,” be within the same thought of what you’re suggesting?

          • PD,
            Sorry about the earlier response to your post, and I placed the wrong name in that reply.

            As far as “from there” ?
            Using the same line of thinking, ‘from there’ hasn’t indicted any movement by the searcher… it seems to be explaining what the area represents ~ no place for the meek, line of thinking.

            If the idea is; we view the canyon down… locate a hoB… and the end being drawing toward the searcher… NPFTM could represent the canyon itself. However, this idea is hard for folks to understand.

            This scenario might help; A searcher is stand at WWWH and a canyon is close. Only the problem might be that a searcher can not see hoB from where they entered the location. They would need to ‘know’ they would have to locate hoB by moving around the area of WWH to see /locate hoB.

            In theory, hoB aligns the searcher in the proper spot at WWH… which is later ‘possibly referenced’ as HLnWH. The exact spot a searcher needs to be in to discover the blaze. Everything in stanza 3 might simply be explaining what is is we are view into… the canyon down. Which is a needed piece of information that tells us where to locate hoB.

            Simply saying; You are at WWWH, Not far away is hoB, but it’s too far to because you don’t need to go there… you only need to “take it in” -view- where it is, from the correct spot. Following the canyon right back to where you are standing… that is how you confirm you are in the correct spot, line of thinking. At which point the poem tells you [in theory] where you are at; “Just” HLnWH.

            All the clues references are need to fulfill the task of being in the correct spot… at the location of the blaze. As I said before… I think this is more an observational task vs. a searcher moving through points, and most of the time forcing 9 locations to travel to, or forcing major distances between clues that need alternative transportation.

            IMO, fenn parked and walked to WWH, went to the spot where he viewed his reference of hoB, described NPFTM leading back to WWH and?/or? a part of WWH, the refers to HLnWH. At which point, he created a blaze or used something on sight as a marked point at which he stood at.
            The concept is easy, able by a 80 yr old hauling a heavy backpack, done in one afternoon, and walking less than a few mile [ two trips combined ] from his car to the hide.. and… had to “follow” -see- his clues { he created by knowing this location well } by seeing them aligned, and finally complete ~ completed? the poem, and placed the chest where his always wanted it to be… In his special place.
            IMO, that special place is what WWH might refer to, rather than a 10″ sq piece of land that ended up being the hidey spot.

            In short, and in ‘theory’ ~ “from there” is from WWH in the exact spot one needs to be at… “Just {meaning exact} HLnWH”… is where the observational part of the task take place.
            Only you wouldn’t ‘know’ this until all the clues align properly…
            ~’Follow’ the clues that will ‘Lead’ to the treasure.
            Those two word could be the Achilles Heel that take searchers on a point to point search, rather than their other meanings; understanding what is being relayed.

            LOL, now if I was only clever enough to figure out what the first clue refers to, I’d put that scenario to test.
            As of right now the scoreboard shows;
            FF 9
            Seeker 0

    • in support of and to further what ken stated…
      i will add once again, if you are taking literally and looking for stanzas 2,3 and 4 in the real world (physical realm) geography then…… CANASTA!

      maybe

      • I know.. Maybe a young FF stepped in a hole in the Madison
        and lost his meek reel and pole. And Skippy went in the cold water and got it. Otherwise it would have been a long ride home.
        Wait a minute how do you play that Canasta game again..
        Can I get an award for stupid statements. I am just kidding.
        Yes I guess I am an Idiot. Ok I commented for All.
        But Really I believe you are getting a small search area but
        you will not stumble on it. You will have to work for it.
        It is hidden I guess. But marked somehow. At a place on a
        map where the poem takes you.
        My complete guess. I do know it is somewhere in 4 states.
        Well Good Luck to ALL this Treasure hunting season. 2019…

      • I find it ironic that the opposite of “maybe” also means “maybe”;

        do you find it difficult to give hints without saying too much?

        • I have no clue where it is. I know where I would look first
          if I was not just an armchair. A BOTG searcher will find
          it one day. I already gave up on finding it. From what I
          have gained FF is a really nice guy. So Far I see the makings
          of 3 meetings coming up. It would be ideal if one of those
          Parties found it. This Summer. Lighten up and enjoyed
          their get together. My Thoughts. 2019…

  23. So, the other day the family broke out an old game that we had tucked away in the closet. It’s a kids game called headbandz. Your supposed to take a picture card from the deck, no peeking, and place it on your headband facing out. The objective of the game is simple. You ask the other players questions to try and determine “what you are.”

    My daughter asked a few questions which drew some firm no responses. Then she asked, “am I an animal?”

    “Yes,” we affirmed.

    She went on to ask a few more more concise and clever questions which gave her confidence that she was painting the correct picture in her head. Before too long she understood all the physical characteristics of the beast, the size, shape, color, and more. She smiled because she just knew she had it nailed.

    “Am I a horse?”
    “No.” She looked puzzled and asked a few more questions.
    “Am I a deer?” Nope.

    She just kept on going, question after question, and it was as if we had buried her deeper with each response we gave. Pretty soon the situation had become hopeless, i could see it in her eyes.

    In the end, we all felt a little bad because we weren’t even sure we had answered the questions the way we should have. But we were doing the best we could.

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