Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Seventy Six


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637 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Seventy Six

  1. as a “for instance”, if the end location were a lake, (shore of the lake) there is no lake I know that you can walk around within “several steps”, if the end location were a mountain top, (yes I know, not exactly on top) I don’t know how many people have hiked to the tops of mountains, but the 14ers I have hiked to the top, the top looked like the size of a football field, surprisingly, actually somewhat larger, yet it would not be exactly on top, the area is even bigger, point being all of which take far more than several steps to traverse… if the end location was at the beginning of a river, the beginning of just about all streams varies far more than several steps.

    then you get into ridges, valleys, basins etc…. all of which are larger than several steps.

    think about the poem’s supposed end… how is that getting to “several steps”. almost has to be an intersection of elements.

    • I agree that it’s some kind of “intersection”. Could be of the elements , or of the clues individually together. IMO .

  2. The person who got within 200′, did not make out or deduce what the blaze was, that tells me the blaze is not gigantic, and it does not stick out like a sour thumb. if a person gets to within 12′, the blaze apparently become obvious, that tells me it is bigger than 6″, most likely 3′ to 6′ large

    somewhere in there the blaze becomes invisible at 200′, and obvious at 12′. got out with a camera and experiment, see how big the blaze is.

    • Writis – I disagree with most of what you have said.: You start off by saying:

      The person who got within 200′, did not make out or deduce what the blaze was, that tells me the blaze is not gigantic,What difference does it make how big the Blaze may be? The question is, is it something that a searcher will recognize as a blaze? It could be as big as a gigantic waterfall or knoll, or as small as a rock, but if the searcher does not recognize it as a blaze, all is lost.

      You then say: if a person gets to within 12′, the blaze apparently become obvious,

      Forrest said: “I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.” Note that Forrest says that the searcher “It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not FIND it.- – – – Not Not SEE it – There is a BIG difference. If someone gets within 12′ of the treasure, it will be because all of the clues have led him there. He says NOTHING about a blaze in that statement. Just because the poen says find the blaze and then look quickly down does not (at least to me) mean that once you find the blaze that the treasure is within a very few feet – although it might be. JMO -JDA

      • JDA.

        Just to add to your comment, it took an afternoon to hide the tc, I believe the distance from the blaze to the tc is much more than 500′. I think the 500′ comment from F was before the 200′ comment about searchers/people walking past the tc and not know it. Basically both comments does not say the actual distance from the blaze, this brings up speculation as I have. The distance from the blaze will only be obvious after the tc is found.

        Just Say’n

        • CharlieM;

          Again I ask – What is a blaze? For me, it is anything that attracts one’s attention. I could stand on a hill and espy a gigantic boulder with a strange shape – It attracts my attention, it could be “A” blaze, but not “THE” blaze. I look quickly down and see a spot of interest – and head there.

          Once “There”, I remember seeing something in TTOTC, and when I compare this memory to an outcrop – they resemble each other – Is this outcrop a blaze because it attracted my attention by reminding me of something seen in TTOTC? Maybe so. If it is, is it “THE” blaze? Maybe yes, maybe no.

          Below this outcrop I see three or four stones stacked atop each other. The bottom stone has an “X” on it – Maybe this is “THE” blaze – Or was it all three? One caught my eye and made me walk to the outcrop – Without being at the outcrop I would never have seen the stacked rocks, and then seen the one with the “X” on it, so maybe they all were “THE” blaze. Who knows??? Just depends on how one looks at it I guess – JDA

          • JDA,

            I think that the poem puts one in a small area, I think analyzing the area and thinking, can an 80 year old go there from where he parked, to the blaze, to the tc and do it two times?

            I try not to think about what a blaze looks like, but it shouldn’t be that hard to find. “They get progressively easier after you discover where the first clue is.”f .This is a reference to clues. The blaze is pretty much at the end of the clues, so it should be easy to find.

            Just Say’n

          • CharlieM;
            I am sure that if Seeker were still posting that he would agree with you that the poem takes you (a searcher) to a small area. Seeker would say that much of the poem could then be solved from a single spot – Viewed not slogged. Will “THE” blaze then be easy to spot, or will it be more like what I described above? Who knows? I guess only Forrest can answer that question – JDA

          • CharlieM, I’m not convinced that FF ever said that the
            finder of the TC would have to go to the blaze. But finding it is pretty important to a good solve, IMO.

          • Tall Andrew,

            I said at the beginning, “I think that”, as well as the other “think”s in my post, so it is my opinion only with the full post.

            But hey…. Thanks for your concern!

        • “The blaze is a physical thing. It’s not theoretical. Boy did I give you a big clue. That’s not a clue, I mean, it doesn’t take a scientist to figure out that the blaze is something you can look at.” Later in interview…” The fact is the important one is out there.” SBS Lazaredes 2014
          Any speculation about a particular *distance* would have to be reconciled with actually following the clues to the blaze…at least in your mind.

        • CharlieM
          Forrest never said it took an afternoon to hide the chest. He said this:
          “I made two trips from my car to the hiding place and it was done in one afternoon.f”

          So you see…he said that it was done in an afternoon. He didn’t say that it took all afternoon to hide it. It could have been from 1pm-2pm in an afternoon…
          There is plenty of room for interpretation in that quote…

          Be careful of what you say and look up the quotes before you put them down as fact on this blog.

          • Dal,

            As you said, “There is plenty of room for interpretation in that quote…” your right, I should have said IMO.

          • Dal: “There is plenty of room for interpretation in that quote…”

            Very true dal.
            “done” could mean “finished”.
            Does not give a starting point time of hiding the treasure in 2 trips.
            It’s very possible the start of the hiding of the chest and contents was before noon or maybe even before but I think he started at the break of dawn and if possible, could add a mile or 2 to the hidey spot from where he parked.

          • My gut felling is that is a short walk from the car park to the hiding spot. 1/4 of a mile at most. That is just a gut feeling.

          • There is a lot to be said about gut feelings. I
            should listen to mine more closely. I think you might have something there.

      • JDA: ” it will be because all of the clues have led him there. ”

        I believe what I was going for was the two posts of mine together. The elements of the poem do not appear to bring a person to within several steps.. (well at least in the several ways I have tried to look at it) This is what I was trying to point out, that the blaze appears to be critical in getting a person to within several steps.

        if as you are pointing out, that the blaze is merely like all the other points of the poem and doesn’t get one within such and such, then I am pointing out that it too would fall into the camp of the other parts of the poem.. it also would be too large of a finger print to get one within several steps.

        if it is not the blaze, something else in the poem must be creating a smaller finger print. The blaze makes sense. however that does not make it a sure bet. only a likely suspect.

        • Writis;

          If I say go South on Jasaon Avenue until you get to fifth avenue – Here you will turn right (now going west). Go under the underpass and continue west until you pass the auction house and the heavy equipment repair place. Across from this place you will see a 16′ tall sculpture of Chief Pocatello. – Sure enough, there he stands.

          You went from a starting point to the finish point following the instructions. The instructions did not require you making your search area any smaller. You went from defined point to defined point until you arrived at the sculpture – No need to make the search area any smaller – to take you within a few steps before you found what you were looking for.

          I think the poem does just that – takes you from one point to another, until you are THERE – JMO – JDA

          • that’s what a road map does….right? “… and like any other map, it will show you where to go if you follow its directions.”

          • and like a road map, JDA’s example included “intersections” of elements. actually just about his entire example used intersection of elements.

            the poem is not like that, (it is not obvious at least) about “intersections”.

            that is the problem. a single intersection can help get to within several steps. not having an intersection of elements at any point along the way can never get you to within several steps of the sculpture.

            there just about has to be either this “intersection” of elements, or a point like the “blaze” example that is within several steps.

            if there are no intersections, and no points, (if as you say the blaze might not be with in several steps) then well something is a mis.

          • Writis;

            Maybe the problem is the use of terms people are not familiar with. What do YOU mean by “Intersection of elements”? I would say that it means where one described thing in the poem (an element) meets the next. Is this right?

            On a map you see city “A” and city “B” there is a road between the two elements. There is NO “Intersection” between these two elements. You do not need to find the place between these two points where they meet – because they DO NOT meet. City “A” might be miles away from City “B”.

            “Begin it where WWWH… (Element #1)
            “And take it in the canyon down.” (Element #2)

            What do you consider the “Intersection” between these two elements? Why is one needed?

            If one is not needed here, why is it needed between the blaze and what you “Look quickly down” at?

            Sorry, I just can not follow your logic – but then again, I am 76… and you certainly do not need to convince this old fart anything about your processes – JDA

          • Didn’t FF say to “marry the clues to a place”? That tells me that we aren’t stomping from place to place. At least not nine places. The clues lead to A place is the way I understand it. I’m not stomping from place to place. IMO

        • Writis…here’s a good one to ponder while thinking about your post.
          “Let’s coin a new phrase. You can’t have a “correct solve” unless you can knowingly go to within several steps of the treasure chest. Otherwise you have a general solve. What do you think? F MW Periodic Words 2017
          As an aside… I’m shooting for the blaze.

      • I Believe the blaze is a half mile long and is 2 miles from the treasure……….. Hows that for a theory!

        • Pauley….

          You get extra credit for having the largest blaze. Can you look down, from something so large?


          • Sherif billy

            I didn’t get much extra credit in school so this will be GREAT!

            My solve gets me to a place which I stop my car and get out to witness the blaze from afar. Then I look down.

  3. Just wanted to give everyone the benefit of my woo woo shaman’s take on the location of the treasure.

    Some background: I was on my search in August on Warm Springs Creek outside of Dubois, Wyoming. In the middle of seeming nowhere I got a text from a guy who I had recently met at my church. It was just something informational, but I thought “hey, of anyone this guy should have some insight into where this treasure is”. I texted him back and said I was looking for a 2K treasure, did he want to help find it? He said “give me a minute”. This is what he came back with: ” I keep seeing trees and rocks. Dense tree cover and flat rock face, three to six feet tall. The face of the rocks are flat and squared off. Light brown marble with darker lines. The area seems wet. Lots of ground cover. Ferns maybe?” He asked me “Is there a river or creek bed nearby?” I told him I had just crossed Warm Springs Creek. He said “yes, river, but creek is what I saw. I see the trunk of a tree 2 to 3 feet in diameter next to the left of the rock face just off the creek. Maybe it’s in the creek bank?” I was sending him pictures of my location; large rocks with a tree downhill from them. He said ” The tree trunk was larger, and the tree was right up against the rocks”.

    So of course this could be just about ANYWHERE, but just thought you could use it as reference if your location looked anything like this description.

    Happy hunting!

    • Good Luck to Ya’ Camille – Anywhere in Wyoming ain’t bad as far as I am concerned. Who knows, maybe your Shaman knows something – JDA

  4. FlutterBy and Friends –

    I am clarifying for anyone new or less familiar that may be reading this.

    Forrest Fenn never said anything about whispers. There is just the one quote “it’s what they whisper”

    So when FlutterBy is discussing Whispers, that’s a theory. FlutterBy is taking a verb, turning it into a noun, send pluralizing it.

    Forrest Fenn never said or wrote whispers and he didn’t use whisper as a noun.


    • Lug. If you go to Tarry Scant and enter “whisp” into the search bar you will find 8 or 9 instances when Forrest said something about whispers or whispered or whisper. While an excellent resource, Tarryscant.com is not a complete resource. There could be more whispers out there.

      • Sandy,

        Sure there are about 8 whisper comments over at MW. Lugnutz is only referring to just one comment about what the people on blogs whisper.

        I agree with what Lugnutz is saying, there is no “s” at the end of whisper. Contorting what F says is done too often, which creates confusion for others.

        Just Say’n

        • Charlie…maybe that’s the intent? Confusion is almost always self-inflicted…however, outside forces can be very influential. In the last O+Ends Flutterby specifically references the above quote…so that clears that part up. Finding a hundred or more mentions of *whispers* using cinnamons(synonyms) seems maybe plausible in general…just not in line with Fenn’s mention of “a couple of good hints” that will help with the clues. Are those couple of good hints in TTOTC wasted on whispers or do they maybe refer to something maybe a bit more tangible?

          • ken

            The whispering that is done is on blogs. I don’t feel whispers have anything to do with the “a couple of good hints” that are in TTOTC. The hints I believe are tangible, provided one can recognize them.

            Just Say’n

          • Yes Charlie…that is what I said pretty much. Fenn concocted the Chase over a long period of years and launched it with the publication of TTOTC in 2010. A comment about blog posters made years later probably does not equate to much…other than to maybe pay attention to some of the less prolific comments made.

          • The word *hint* in the poem could be interpreted as a *whisper* depending on how a person reads the poem.

          • Ken,

            IMO the whispers are tangible. If you followed the process of looking for the underlying story in FF’s writings, you would see that the “whispers” aren’t what people think they are IMO. Ignore it at your own peril IMO Just because you can’t see something doesn’t mean it isn’t there. “The grass sees. . . ”


          • Flutterby… It’s all good. We all see what we see and as time goes on maybe it leads somewhere. Most times I’ve found that the scenery changes…and the ideas follow suit. You keep doing what you’re doing and keep having fun…I like it.

          • Ken –

            Of course, Flutter will never say what this is all about. How many times have we seen it?

            But if I had to guess I might think that Flutter went down a rabbit hole after googleing Whisper Synonymous and discovering that Hint appears on the list…

    • Lug–

      I agree with you…..and it doesn’t even matter if you say it out loud, no one will believe you. However, I am predicting that we will all know the solution come this summer. ….and Yes those are most certainly horseshoes, two of which, implies Doublekick! You can take that to the trademark office! IMO

      Billy and the Deputy

        • I’m curious being fairly new to this search. Is it a fact of just someone’s idea that f ever said TC was Not in Yellowstone. Just trying to wrap my head around so much clutter

          • Mark;

            Forrest has never said that is – or is not – in Yellowstone. All he has said for sure is what is found in the Cheat Sheet – found at the top of every thread:
            What we are taking as fact:
            ♦Located above 5,000 ft and below 10,200 ft.
            ♦At least 8.25 miles North of Santa Fe, New Mexico
            ♦Not in grave yard
            ♦Not in out house…..not associated with a structure
            ♦Not in a mine, tunnel, or cave
            ♦Where warm waters halt is not a dam.
            ♦Chest and contents weigh 42lbs. (Fenn said 44lbs. in one email, but has said 42 several other times)
            ♦Chest is 10x10x5 inches and made of Bronze
            ♦Forrest published a map in his book Too Far To Walk and told us the chest is hidden somewhere on that map
            ♦The treasure is in one of 4 states: Montana, Wyoming, Colorado or New Mexico
            ♦“Begin it where warm waters halt” is the first clue

            Hope this helps – JDA

    • Regarding Whisper/Whispers. . . .

      “It seems logical to me that a deep thinking treasure searcher could use logic to determine an important clue to the location of the treasure. Is someone doing that now and I don’t know it? It’s not what they say on the blogs that may be significant, it’s what they whisper. f”

      I realize that Lugnutz isn’t able to see the whispers. As far as I can tell, many others don’t either. But, I see them! I’ve been at this chase for 3 years now. Most people who have been at it a while seem to be looking for the same things and not figuring out a solution. I think that is because the solution is not in the surface stories FF tells. In my opinion, it is in the story within the story. I memorized the poem a long time ago. Then I went back to the stories and read them again and again slowly. What I began to see is that each story FF tells, is exactly like what he said when comparing his own life to that of JD Salinger. Basically, the people and places and such are different, but the stories are the same. What I am saying, is that FF tells a story about his own life and he chooses to embellish it in order to draw attention to certain points of the story. While doing so, he is presenting a story that does represent his own memories, but they are also represent another idea. Each and every story FF has ever told, has a story under the surface, which speaks to the exact same theme/concept/idea. If you can figure out what that is, then you see the whispers- in my opinion. If someone had told me this 3 years ago, I would have thought they were nuts (not referring to Lugnutz). Remember that FF has said that it isn’t who you are, but who they think you are. That is his suggestion that if his readers think he is writing about his own experiences and they don’t know the perspective from which he is really writing, they will never see the hints that are “scattered” in his stories. But, if you can figure out what perspective he is speaking from, then you will see what the poem is really about. It took three years, but in my opinion, I see what perspective the stories are written from. Sure, they are entertaining from the perspective of FF, but they are even more fascinating from the alternate perspective! “Its not who you are. . .it’s who they think you are” that makes all the difference. “Sometimes its wise for the fox to dress like a hound”. All this is my opinion, and if Lugnutz wants to try to discredit what I’m saying, whatever. . . . It doesn’t matter to me. I share because what I’ve learned is fun and makes the chase all that more interesting. I’d like for others to see it too! Trust me, its worth the time to look for it! When you finally see it, you will smile and be glad you went to the effort. It is my firm opinion, that anyone who can’t see the story within the story will never know how to solve the poem. How can every single story FF has ever shared have an underlying story that fits one single theme/concept/idea? He is a genius with words and his knowledge runs deep. All IMO

      How about we all try to play fair and not attack others just because we can’t see what they can see? Just because you can’t see it, doesn’t mean it isn’t there. IMO!


      • Flutterby;

        Very well stated. I totally agree that there is an underlying theme to the poem and to the stories. It has been fun figuring it all out – JMO – JDA

          • IMO it’s not about stories. It’s about math. There will be no pADDle up your creek. What are supposed to add? Stories are fun, but math has to be the solution. “Simplify,” he said. I suggest we do so. Has anyone discussed math?

          • Pickles

            I think math is EXTREMELY important. I think it all comes down to the distances between every clue. What is humanly possible for our species to determine through eye sight pertaining to distances. Forrest repeatedly says LOOK at the Clues, LOOK at the book TO SEE where we are going. The human EYE is the KEY to this whole thing.

            My opinion of course.

          • Pickles, if “As I have gone alone in there” can be transformed into math, how would you calculate:
            – azimuth
            – imaginary number
            – half
            – gon
            – 1
            – n
            – ?

      • Flutterby,

        I’m referring to your last sentences, I understand what you are saying, but everyone that posts here are opening themselves up for debate or agreement. Isn’t that what we are all doing here? I would hope all not to take anything personal.

      • Whispers huh? Whispers from the Forrest I would imagine. Nice, ORIGINAL idea. Where did you get this idea from ,I not wonder.

      • FlutterBy –

        You are insulting me.

        You’re new. You are going to change your mind, probably many times, IF you stick with the chase.

        To me, if you believed in your theory, you would share. In my opinion you don’t share it because you fear being wrong.

        I have invited many people to email me over the years even though not much comes from it.

        You took the opportunity to do so BUT even in doing so chose to keep your theory to yourself. I have no idea why you emailed me.

        What you propose is non sense. That’s not an opinion it’s a description. As I have mentioned many times, the way to solve the poem is to share your ideas. For me and many chasers sharing our dumb ideas helped us get away from them. And what’s the worst that could happen? Someone reads your idea and retrieves the treasure? Is that your fear? Don’t worry. iIf someone takes your idea and finds the treasure I will commission a statue in your honor. Everyone will always known that it was your idea.


        • Lugnutz,
          You asked me a question. I provided my Email. You wrote. I responded. If you dont like my opinion, it doesnt matter to me. What I told you would help you! Use it or not. Ive shared more specifics than any searcher Ive seen here IMO. Ive been at this chase 3 years and have a solid theory on how to solve this poem. I have generously shared. Take it or leave it! I happen to have figured something out that is very fascinating. I shared how I figured it out. I try very hard not to insult others. I share ideas and encourage others. Lets just all play nice! If you want to follow me out the window and down the fire escape, its up to you. I will be in the mountains this week. Everyone here have a great week.

        • @Lugnutz:
          Do you really think you have the right to get a fair share of the treasure just because you posted an idea or a concept and that or parts of it have led the finder to the chest? I think there’s no chance other than the finder being generous!
          This is an open forum for discussions on how to solve the poem and there is absolutely no copyright on ideas how to solve the poem nor is there a contract or automatic agreement between a possible finder and the one who gave a good hint.
          The term “to share an idea” means exactly that and there is no compensation included!
          Happy hunting and stay safe!
          Best, TLo

          • Tlo

            I’m not sure what you are talking about.

            I am suggesting that FlutterBy share ideas to in order to discard them and get on the right track.

            I said that when I shared my ideas early on I learned from the chasers how novel they were.

            FlutterBy will be stuck in a hole until such a realization.


          • I should add that I am not interested in any share of the treasure. I’m not sure why you thought that.

          • Maybe my fault… I misread:
            „ Someone reads your idea and retrieves the treasure? Is that your fear? Don’t worry. iIf someone takes your idea and finds the treasure I will commission a statue in your honor.“

            Apologies! 🙂

      • Trust me when I say, I know I am in the middle of a room filled with long tailed cats who’s tails are about to be stepped on. If you are one of those cats, no apologies!

        This blog was setup as a resource. By viewing this blog, I have no duty to share any portion of my solve if I choose not to. I respect those that do and those that do not. Yes, reading some of the posts have directed me in ways that have helped, however, IMO I believe those posts are ghosts in the room. And when people do choose to share, they are shot down as being improbable or impractical and dismissed because they differ from the norm. Forrest has said to study the poem which tells me to be studious. I assure you, Forrest did not gain his knowledge studying only written words, he also studies people.

        “It’s what they whisper” They – meaning multiple people whispering or one whispering multiple times. Either way you look, it’s whisper(s). Some are just too closed minded I guess!

        My solve is just that, my solve! Right or wrong, only time will tell. But why would I want to give it away and let someone else find what I’ve studied to find. So fault no one but yourself if you can’t figure it out and won’t openly listen to those that do share.

        “Butterflies are really fluttrerbys” means more than most will ever know!

  5. Can someone direct me to an interview where fenn states the 10200 elevation?
    I’ve seen the 5000 ft from the today show.

  6. Several of you have asked about Seeker. He is fine. He says he is “flying solo” now.
    I see his point of view. It becomes tiresome to just keep rehashing the same stuff. I know lots of folks are new here and haven’t heard it all before. But, unless someone has got any ideas that we haven’t all beat to death, then it gets us nowhere to keep going over it. I’ve been doing a lot of solo flights recently too and it is refreshing! Though I do like to pop in occassionally and see if the scenery has changed.

    • Thanks Flutterby, it’s good to know that Seeker is OK. Was worried that carpal tunnel and worn out keyboards were behind the disappearance.

    • Not sure where to put this but I have to ask if anyone has received
      strange email recently. Some one posing as me is up to no good.
      To the other party involved I hope everything on your end is ok.

      • Thunder,
        I dont know your Email address so dont know who these creepy Emails are really from. They are not signed by Thunder. Could be from anyone. But YES-creepy Emails from someone who claims to be Mr Potts. Clearly this individual needs psychological help. I am filing a police report over the threat. I havent opened the attachments but lets just say they sound very psycho!

        • Flutterby
          This was just posted under your last post as I did not where else to post it. If it were me I would not open any attachments.
          What if it has a virus.

        • Hey Flutter… that is a good example of why posters should not post their emails publicly. I hear that Dal usually will help folks connect so that info stays secure.

      • Lets get back to the chase!

        Has anyone ever wondered about the name of FF’s publishing company? One Horse Land and Cattle Company? Anyone see a hint there?

          • Com’on Clint we’re all among friends….throw us a bone…give us at least one of the two words…I’ll give you a wooly worm or two…

          • Clint & Sherif,

            I don’t really have any idea about the publishing company. I just got wondering about it. Thought maybe I could redirect the negativity on this page by changing the subject and thought maybe it might draw out ideas from others. I simply asked if anyone had given it any thought or had ideas about it. I don’t have any ideas about it. Just find it an odd name for a publishing company.


        • Hi Flutterby
          Yes I have known sense day one.Forrest has also said if you know where TC is kept quiet
          and go get it in the spring or are you just casting
          your wooly worm to see what bites?

          • Flutterby and Mr. Clint:

            I would have to guess the horse’s name to be “lighting”. That was the name of the mule that was used to haul equipment and poles up that mountainside. History tells us lighting just gave up one day and died on that hillside. Without a horse…I guess it is now known as the ******* ***** and Cattle Co.

            OK Mr. Clint and Flutterbutter….. fill in the two words if you dare…
            I’m all ears…


          • Mr. Clint:

            It’s not nice to be a tease…Show us your hand or are you just a joker? Did you stand up all your girl friends?
            OK you lead us up here and have brought us to a dead end? Com’on Clint, prove you are within the 500′.


          • Flutter–

            Here’s how I see what just went down….

            You were bored fishin and nothin was biting.. So you switched your bait to a few worms as you said. With that you caught a sunfish… and as you were reeling him in…a champion sized Muskie swallowed your sunfish.

            If I were you…I’d mount that muskie and put him on your wall. Congratulations! Nice catch.


          • Open note to all who might be listenin….Billy doesn’t know anything other that what the leprechauns and voices in his head have told him…

            Now where’s my Deputy?

            Best regards to all;


          • Clint or Flutterby, when did Forrest say about keeping quiet if you know where the TC is? I have not read that.

        • I think in England, there’s a white chalk horse, that looks a lot like FF”s horse logo. There’s one in Wyoming too.

          • There are more than a dozen white horses on hillsides in England. There are another couple dozen other creatures done in the same manor; some are x rated.

            When I drive to Montana, I often pass by letters in the hillside made and maintained by high-school graduates. The concept goes back many centuries.. yes interesting angle.

        • Hi Flutter;

          One Horse – Seems like a pretty small spread to me
          Land – Is he selling land as well as cattle?
          & Cattle Company – How many cattle can you round up in the spring with only one horse?

          To answer your question, No, I see no hints here other than maybe to look in a very small area – JMO – Good question though – JDA

        • Hello Flutterby. I believe Mr. Fenn explains how he came up with the name, but I don’t recall if it’s on audio or something I believe I read. With him having a love for the land, I could see the name being appropriate. I’m not sure if I see a hint.

          • The name of his company could also be considered his “brand”. As James Perotti mentioned, it’s also his logo, which reminds me of companies having one. Think of the stories he’s written and what their logos were/are. While moving to Colorado, we did what others did before us and made a sign that read, “Colorado or Bust.” Mr. Fenn’s title reminds me of this.

          • Pdenver
            I believe you are right. It might be in an interview somewhere. I recall hearing something about wanting to own a ranch but I could be wrong.That horse looks like the one in Frenchy’s Field.

          • Hello Thunder. I had to look up where Frenchy’s Field is, and I seem to be confused about the mention of a horse. Would you be so kind to explain, please?

          • Pdenver
            I was referring to the one horse mentioned above.
            There is one horse standing there. Look at the pictures
            when search for the park. Sure looks like the one in one of the books.

          • Pdenver
            If you look at the first few pages in TTOTC you will see one that looks like the one in the park.

        • FlutterBy –

          I just don’t get it.
          Are we here on this site to figure out your clues?

          We are not.

          If you have an idea for what clue is hidden in the name of the publishing company why don’t you say it?

          You awfully cock sure for a nee person.

          Do you know when the publishing company was named?

          Again I don’t get it. People used to share thier ideas here. Now we get hundreds of questions like Don’t you see the clue hidden in the name of the publishing company.

          Non sense

          • Yup Lug,
            It’s not just her, it’s the majority.
            Most want it found soon but most just play games with everyone reading…..
            Have a good evening.

          • I own a Fenn book that was published in 1983.


            Published by One Horse Land & Cattle Company

            So. Please tell me how you hide a clue to a treasure hunt in the name of a company founded 3 years before the cancer diagnosis that lead you to conceive of said treasure hunt.

            Wow he really I’d a genius!

          • I’ve shared a ton of ideas Lugnutz. The name of the publishing company was something I just got thinking about this week. I just wondered aloud about it and haven’t drawn any conclusion yet. I wondered if anyone had any ideas they were willing to share.

            As far as my previous topic, I am not going to share the key! But, I did tell you how to find it because I figured a smart guy like you could do it. If you want to find it, be my guest! I told you how. IMO

            Please stop this ridiculous attack! I’m working on the chase. I hope you will get back to and stop using this forum to attack others.


          • I see nothing in the name of his publishing company. I thought I once read that he wanted to own a ranch, but I can’t confirm. In any event, I think if anything, FF is a loner… a maverick. That is my take on that. No hints there.

  7. More fun with words:
    – a bath is where warm waters halt. There is a Bath Ranch and a Bath Row from the Bath family in Laramie, WY.
    – “Dunn” etymology originates from another language for the word “brown”. Randy Dunn is the current owner of the Bath Ranch. Bath Ranch is quite literally the home of Brown.
    – Laramie etymology (la ramée) is “the canopy”, like the word used in Fenn’s plane.
    – “Saline Plain” is what they used to call the Great Divide Basin area. A “grade” is also a “divide”, like First Grade. So is a “fork” in the road, if you know what I mean.
    – “A really big deal” if another definition of “deal” is a “board” would be the “Gangplank” feature in southern Wyoming, almost I-80, which is also funny.
    – A “Blässe” is an origination of the word “blaze”, which means “pale”. Maybe this is why 6 cats were feeling “blessed” while he was milking Bessie into a “bucket”. I feel like this whole chapter is encoded. A “pale” is also a fence post, like the one to which he tied Bessie’s tail. And it’s a boundary, like the name of the bookstore he went to on a rainy day, “Borders”. Perhaps he’s hinting that the blaze is a border?
    – If I must go to southern WY (“So why is it that I must go”), I guess all of this area is still considered the Rockies north of Santa Fe.

    • EC

      Don’t forget about John Dunn and his bridge.

      Someone should make you a deputy.

      Or, maybe you have to learn to pronounce words wrong first. Not sure…

      • I remember the discussions about John Dunn and his bridge being somewhat interesting. We talked through the poem about for whom the bells toll…

    • I like it E.C. Waters! Good ideas!

      I have thought about bath. I have wondered about batholith. There are some interesting ones in the Rocky Mountans.


    • Has anyone else noticed anything familiar about the brand of the Bath Brothers Ranch in Laramie, WY, the Running M? Or is it just my apofennia acting up again?

  8. Ok Clint; we appear to have lost flutterbutter……So tell me what’s you got. Don’t make me have to have my Deputy rough you up. I mean it, she is one mean…..law woman. I know I’m scared of her.

    I mean can’t we just be friends? If you show me yours….I’ll show you mine…..


    • No offense JDA…..but try to keep the air waves open….I am anxiously awaiting a response from either flutternutter or Clint….

      Remember the old saying….

      It is not wise to be underfoot of two elephants while wrestling…..you could end up toejam…..


          • I’m trying without giving away the farm…

            Pdenver….If you would like the answer….have Dal send me your email.

            You have always been very kind to me and my family.

            My best regards;


          • Hello Sherif Billy. Thank you for your kind words and offer. I prefer my email to be kept private at the time.

            You mentioned not giving up the farm, yet you wish the two to do so?

          • Pdenver-

            If anyone.. knows those two words that I omitted…that would confirm that they were within 500′ of the strong box IMO.

            THAT…..is how Mr. F..

            Open note to anyone gettin thar before my posse….It’s going to be quite embarrassing when you can’t explain the nine clues and how they led you there…

            Good luck


        • Com’on Clint:

          You asked me to the party and then I find out you don’t dance…It not nice to lead someone on…besides no one is listening….it’s just you and me..

          I might as well be dancing with the stars….


          • Com’on Clint and Flutter…

            Did you fall asleep? Come out and play….

            OK…Up I see it…


          • Flutter-

            If youre stomping…you’re not a very good dancer…

            If you’re askin me to be engaged….I’m already married..


          • Speaking of farms, I have a bridge I’d like to sell ya. I’ll dance with the stars, what’s the question?

          • Soultise-

            Flutternutter like a baby bear up a tree tripped over an important hint IMO But he’s got nothin….


          • Sherif Billy,

            I believe you’re a god fearing man, aren’t you suppose to turn the other cheek? I personally do see your point of view, that an answer was not given. What I don’t understand is the continuous rant, we got it a long time ago and I’m sure the two you are referring got it, but a question does deserve and answer.

            Could you be a good Sherif and your deputies, just let it go? Honestly I’ve never seen you like this. How about a nice soothing tea of Olga’s!

            Just Say’n

          • Sherif Billy
            Ok ,I will dance,how about Stairway to Heaven by LED ZAPPLIN, thats the only song I know .It kinda slow at first
            but at the end it really comes on.Do you
            know this one.Clint

  9. Hi Sherif Billy
    I had to think on that one ,that’s what took so long.I didn’t want to give the farm a way and by the way I think you and the Depute are one and the same.

    • Clint-

      Honestly…The Deputy is my daughter. Secret agent Brando is my son-in-law and Secret agent Joe……is related to Canasta.

      Best regards;


  10. Sherif-

    WE could try another analogy–
    Flutter has 2 pair, and YOU have a straight or flush. I dont think your holding a full-house. I raise, flutter folds, you call. On the river card, I raise again. Am I bluffing or am I holding a higher hand? Imho, hard to say.
    I haven’t played poker in over a decade, maybe I should get back in the game.

  11. Hmmm, Clint said, it’s kinda slow at first but at the end it really comes on.

    Hmmm, that’s very VERY interesting.

    Merrily merrily merrily, life is but a dream.
    (Inside joke that I can’t seem to find anywhere on this site anymore, it vanished from existence!)

  12. Hi FluterBy
    Dropping a hint around here is like dropping a worm in a warm tub of Blue Gills.what think Clint

  13. Hey… Clint, where is your avatar? Do you think, if I change my avatar, does that change my way of thinking or who I am? What I see kinda of reminds me of a guy in school, claimed he knew everything, when in reality he knew nothing, he just wanted the attention like a child and acted that way.

    Just siding with the Sherif on this one even if there is no reply from him.

        • Hay CharlieM
          Sorry if I offended you it was not intended as far
          As my avatars I do not know how to put it on here.

          • I didn’t have an inkling of being offended. Thanks for the concern.

            Go to https://wordpress.com and create an account using the same email address as you did when you joined here. Your actually creating your free website or blog.

            Once you’ve gotten through some things that may be confusing to you in joining. They do have a help section that will help with an avatar.

  14. Sherif Billy
    Take a look at what your looking for and you mite figure it out.no more wispers for you today Clint
    PS i got to put more wood in the Fire Place!!!

  15. Here is an analogy of a clue, A cut down tree, hung upside down with all of the branches in tact. What am I referring to in the poem?

    • I need to insert, “Its like illustrating on paper” a cut down tree,…..

      Mind going faster than my fingers. Need to practice more keyboarding!

    • Hello CharlieM. It would seem it could be just about anything in the poem since it appears it would depend on how we interpret your analogy to the poem, which we seem to be doing in regards to the clues in the poem.

      This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

        • Hay CharlieM
          Thanks for the info on the avatar and by the way I am 64 Jan 28th b day mind at 13 , hope I
          last As long as Forrest.

          • Clint

            Well then! respect your elder 🙂

            Here’s the problem, I feel 14 and I end up getting hurt!

  16. Hi JDA
    Meant to share this with you regarding “wood”.
    It was a while back and it took some time to find it.

    In the Wood

    Herbert Edwin Clarke (b. 1852)

    THROUGH laughing leaves the sunlight comes,
    Turning the green to gold;
    The bee about the heather hums,
    And the morning air is cold
    Here on the breezy woodland side, 5
    Where we two ride.

    Through laughing leaves on golden hair
    The sunlight glances down,
    And makes a halo round her there,
    And crowns her with a crown 10
    Queen of the sunrise and the sun,
    As we ride on.

    The wanton wind has kissed her face,—
    His lips have left a rose,—
    He found her cheek so sweet a place 15
    For kisses, I suppose,
    He thought he ’d leave a sign, that so
    Others might know.

    The path grows narrower as we ride,
    The green boughs close above, 20
    And overhead, and either side,
    The wild birds sing of Love:
    But ah, she is not listening
    To what they sing!

    Till I take up the wild-birds’ song, 25
    And word by word unfold
    Its meaning as we ride along,—
    And when my tale is told,
    I turn my eyes to hers again,—
    And then,—and then,— 30

    (The bridle path more narrow grows,
    The leaves shut out the sun;)
    Where the wind’s lips left their one rose
    My own leave more than one:
    While the leaves murmur up above, 35
    And laugh for love.

    This was the place;—you see the sky
    Now ’twixt the branches bare;
    About the path the dead leaves lie,
    And songless is the air;— 40
    All ’s changed since then, for that, you know,
    Was long ago.

    Let us ride on! The wind is cold,—
    Let us ride on—ride fast!—
    ’T is winter, and we knew of old 45
    That love could never last
    Without the summer and the sun!—
    Let us ride on!

  17. Not to be disrespectful to any of you but you all seem to be a little like junior high kids or somewhat like that drama show the bachelor that my wife and daughters watch. I understand that you all are just desifering the clues and that alone will drive you nuts. So be careful what you make when you think and process. It’s not that valuable. But the only one here that I have noticed in the last 6 months that is even remotely close to going in the right direction is JDA. If I were him. I would stay closer to home. Mr. Fenn. Wrote the poem to provide all with the meens to find his TC. But that is not all. Besides that there is the debth of complexity that takes the Poem further and there is another dimension that only someone with the ability to see can understand what it is.
    No one including myself has gone to those debts yet and that may take more than someone’s lifetime to understand. That’s why the Chase will continue past the retrieval of his TC. Mark my words. If you do not know we’re WWWH is you are playing the lotto.
    I play once a year cannot tell you when.
    As I go silently along I hope that all searchers find themselves and take a good look in the mirror and ask themselves am I satisfied with what I see.
    If you say no it’s ok. Just ask how can i change that. And seek. Like the TC hunt.
    As I have crossed the meadows , whaded the river , climbed the hills, looked to the sky’s, prayed for guidence faced the demons, drawn to another dimension , faced my own demise. Alienated my family ,payed a price beyond that TC. I say be careful what you want from this. I have been fortunate that I will fulfill what is to be and my purpose will enlighten others along the way. You will only solve this with your own mind. Only you will know that it is correct and no one will believe you.
    Some one a long time ago lived what I speak of and to this day not much has changed. I think I have said to much and I hope you all can leave the tabloids for a bit.

  18. Bad Juju….

    Approximately seven or eight months ago, IMO, I was able to put together the final parts of Mr.F’s puzzle (with a little help from my secret agents and leprechaun friends). Since that time I have been under a dark cloud. Most people would consider it bad luck, but I am beginning to wonder…. consider the following events.

    1. The end of June, just before I was going to that sacred spot to retrieve the strong box, (recall Mr. F’s indigestion) I busted my knee really good. There are only a few places in the country that have the experience to repair this type of break and so I chose Mayo in Minnesota, nearby the residence of my Deputy. Even then my surgery took three hours, and after seven long months I can still barely walk.

    2. A few months ago when I thought I had recovered enough to retrieve it again, the Deputy and I once again made travel arrangements. The day before we were to depart, she had some complications with her work, and as such, had to cancel. I struck out alone, but couldn’t physically do it. The snow was knee high and my knee was killing me.

    3. A little time past and my other daughter and her husband were moving out West. I was helping them drive there , which would give me a chance to have my son-in-law, take a little side trip and retrieve it. During this move, my daughter developed an acute psychosis, which later was found to be a result of Autoimmune Encephalitis. She spent 2 months in the hospital, 2 weeks of which were in the ICU. While at her bedside in the ICU several times I thought, “this is just like a scene out of the movie the exorcist”. She was quite ill and nearly died. The incidence of Autoimmune encephalitis is thought to be about 1 in a million people each year.

    4. After a few months of recovery, Secret agent Brando, my daughter’s husband was feeling tired and run down. (like who wouldn’t after going through the ringer like he had. right?) As to reassure him, I took him to the Emergency Department, to have him checked out. His blood work there in the E.D. showed he has leukemia. The type he has has an incidence of 1:100,000 per year. More time in the hospital…..

    5. Later while driving up to see them, I crashed and totaled my new used car on black ice on a bridge in front of a semi. The front of my car was seared off and the air bag deployed. I easily could have been killed. My first accident in 25 years.

    6. Not deterred, I flew to see them at Mayo where Brando was hospitalized. This time from his hospital bed Brando found me a new used BMW for $6000. It’s really nice with only 125,000 miles. After a week or so I needed to get back to work. As I was leaving Minnesota, the radiator hose and part of the radiator broke in the minus 14 degree weather. Unfazed, I borrowed the deputy’s car and left the BMW with Brando, now out of the hospital, to get repaired.

    7. A week passes and the BMW is fixed and the deputy wants her car back. So as I am driving back up there in her 2017 Subaru, I become aware of some sound like voices…. Yes, it is a voice but where is it coming from I wondered? It turns out it was the radio. The screen says BT phonebook and the voice says something like “if you want to make a call”….. My first thought was that my phone had linked up to the BT, but my phone was off. I tried to turn it off, but no matter how many times I pushed it, it wasn’t going to turn off. Then I decided that it must be a computer problem with the car, and so I pulled off the road, back onto the on ramp, and turned the car off. The trouble was that when I tried to restart it…the car was completely dead. Nothing not even lights. At that exact moment, a AAA truck pulled up. Are you James he asked? No, I could be if you would help me, I responded. He merely lifted the hood and suddenly as quickly as it had disappeared the electricity reappeared.
    Happy to be back under way, and reflecting on the strange set of circumstances which had just occurred, I did something I very rarely do. I glanced at the trip odometer……..666. I’m telling you, you can’t make this stuff up!

    I don’t want to disappoint those agnostics or atheists, but I know the last few clues have a religious solution, take it or leave it. I believe in a supreme being, but I had never given Satan or demons much thought…until now. It has given me the chance to re-read the chapter on Job. I think you should too.

    So my friends, I ask you, if the solution to the poem gives the glory to God most high as F intended, is it demons that are working in my life preventing me from retrieving the strong box …..or it is bad Juju and the sherif has just gone off the rails as Lutznuts has expounded? I’ll let you be the judge.

    Personally, I’m a lot more careful crossing the street nowadays.

    Just waiting for the next shoe to drop;

    1F Billy


    • 1F Billy,

      I wouldn’t call it bad Bad Juju, it could very well be just a stretch of getting the bad things out of the way and time to assess the ills and move on to better things. When the time is right for you to go on your search, you will know it.

      IMO there are no devils etc… those are just things to blame when things go bad. Hang in there, you and your family will get through all that has happened.

      Best Wishes,

    • Sherif Billy,

      I’m sorry to hear about all that has happened to you and your family. Maybe your luck will change soon. I noticed that you changed your avatar.

    • Geez Sherif,
      I will remember not to cross your path when Im out searching. I doubt demons are your issue. But, you sure got more than your share of bad luck! I wish you better success this spring & summer.

    • Hello Sherif Billy. When things become too overwhelming, take a deep breath and let go of the reins.

      • Pdenver–
        Your statement “let go of the reins” reminded me of my childhood. You see I had this horse when I was in junior high. I used to ride that old nag all along the highline canal around Evans and Monaco, and up to the Cherry Creek reservoir. Back then it was farmland and I’d chase jack rabbits and pheasants on horseback. There was only one trouble though. At some unpredictable time, my horse would decide she’d had enough and it was time to head back home…and it didn’t matter what you did…she had her mind made up.

        At first you would have trouble with her following the reins and gradually she would be turning towards home. Then her pace would begin to pick up and before you knew it we were in a full canter on a beeline with the shortest route back home. Now the harder you tried to change course or pull one rein all the way back…so she was lookin were we had just been..just made her run all the more faster…no heed to what peril directly ahead. Bushes, low hanging limbs, farm equipment, fences, barbed wire…it didn’t matter.

        So I learned if I couldn’t win..at least I could get her to slow up some if I “let go the reins”. I didn’t really let go…she would have stepped on a loose or droped rein and snapped her neck, killing both of us in the process. So I would tie the reins together and slide them up her neck so she would know I gave up. Then at least she would mostly try to avoid the perilous obstacles before us.

        Since I usually rode bareback, I had no trouble keeping a low profile like a jockey, anticipating a low branch,or lifting my legs when in tight quarters. A problem presented itself though when they paved Monaco blvd….now there were moving cars to avoid!

        On a beeline back to the barn, I would come over the crest of the hill by Quebec and everytime I would be in private conversation with God praying that there wouldn’t be any cars on Monaco.

        On days there were cars, I would prepare to abandon my ride knowing that she thought horses having business back home always had the right of way. I know the cars could see us and I wondered what they thought if I was practicing my trick riding as I would partially dismount, hanging on one side holding onto only her wethers with my feet just a few inches above the ground, on a collision course with destiny.

        If the car slowed or stopped I could pull myself back up. But more times than not, I had to bail and let go. It’s odd but I always thought that if you were prepared, you could just hit the ground running and not fall. I never perfected that skill, and after the dust settled, I would just sit there on the ground, pulling out the sand burs and thorns out of my skin, as my ride disappeared into the sunset.

        It was never fun abandoning ship that way, but I had a strong desire to survive.

        That was long ago and far away…

        Thanks for the memory

        1F Billy

        • Hello 1F Billy. Thank you for sharing your memory. I read it to my husband and my oldest son who owns a horse by the name of Moonshine. My husband said he remembers that area being open and one could do as you did. It made him go down memory lane to his childhood of openness and dirt roads where we live, but has changed. It was nice hearing his memories. Thank you.

        • Hey…1F Billy, your horse reminded me of a knot-head horse that we had way back in my early years, his name was Red. He was also unpredictable as yours, but he was a smart horse. When you asked Red a question that required a yes or no, he would nod his head to the answer.

          It was a good thing that we had other horses around that would retrieve Red when he had the notion to be completely free from everything, while he was being ridden. Out of the blue he would start dancing sideways which then turned into bucking until you where off his back. Then it was full speed ahead at a dead run in any direction.

          We decided after a long period of time, not to put up with his antics and stopped riding him altogether. As I said he was a smart horse, opening gates, the door to the chicken coop, the tool shed, and follow us like a good cattle dog does.

          Well finally Red’s intelligence got the best of him, by trying to get into the grain shed. He had opened up the top half of the door, but couldn’t open up the lower half. Apparently he had tried to jump over the lower half of the door and ended up getting impaled with broken remnants of the door.

          Red had a nice send off at his final resting place and all of us kids including my dad had cried. I couldn’t believe it, my dad crying! I never thought I would see the day. Red was one that we favored more than the other horses, just don’t ride him.

          Every time I’m around folks that are talking about horses, Red is thought of, I’ve always missed that horse.

          Thanks for you memories that sparked mine.

    • … waiting for the next shoe to drop? Are you a centipede?
      Seriously, I am so sorry for your string of bad luck. Sometimes life is a bitch. Hang in there, keep paddling; our spirits rise on dreams and grow strong on mindful work.

    • 1F 2L –

      I don’t reject your ideas as a statement on religion of any kind. I am a Quaker.

      I reject your ideas as incorrect as relates to the chase. I reject in more general way to the idea that Fenn would use religious reference. Why? Because in this super Christian country it would render the solve easy.

      Do you get that?

      If we are looking for Bible verses they’ve been found. And long before you arrived.

      Also, what do you mean by last few clues? What about the chaser that was within close proximity to the treasure? Was it his lack of faith that kept him from getting closer than 200 feet? Is it only the Bible memorized that can solve the last few clues? Is the whole thing skewed towards the religious?

      You don’t need to answer me. These are questions you might ask yourself.

      Here’s a tip. First remove the board from your own eye so that you can see clearly enough to remove the splinter from your neighbor’s eye.


  19. As one of the more prolific contributors over the years, I thought it appropriate to give Seeker a proper *bon voyage*. Many have come and gone from this blog, some by way of the infamous nuclear switch manned by the mystery man and doer of good deeds(Goofy), others were just a fleeting one or two post wonder never to be heard from again(at least that we know of). There are numerous others, too many to remember and probably not wise to take the time to try. So, see you on the other side Seeker and I’m kinda relieved to not have to spend so much time reading your lengthy posts multiple times trying to figure out what means what…ha ha. As the final parting shot… I always thought you were *flying solo* in Skippy’s washercopter all this time anyhow. Harvey Goodwin.

    • what’s the frequency Kenneth? – and please define “prolific” while ya there..

      signed – (NOT) curious hobbit fyi

      • The hobbit ! I believe it is in the .000001 MHz(megahurts) range… or roughly 0 Hz(hurts). And that would be the opposite of antilific. Don’t be a stranger…

    • I think Seeker will be back before long… his word silo is depleted and waiting for the summer harvest to refill it. I think we will all still be here to nibble and quibble on his grains of wisdom. What? Oh, …. he said ‘solo? Sorry.

      Hey, Seeker… don’t make it too long. Every thrust needs a parry.

      • Curious Hobbit,

        Great to hear from you… Are you waking from “Summer Hibernation”? LOL

        Sometimes it’s good to hear from the past “fun” posters!

        Welcome back!


  20. JDiggins wrote a story about the chase for Gold Prospectors magazine. It was published in the Jan-Feb 2019 issue…out now…
    Cynthia was generous enough to scan it for us so we can all read it…

    It’s a fine read and in it she thanks all who contributed to the fund when she and her family were burned out and lost everything in the California wildfires last summer..

    You can find it here:

    and there will also be a link on the media page of this blog with other fine articles about the chase going back to the start…

    • Thanks for the post Dal. What a lovely write-up. So glad that the “Chase Community” came together and that over 58K was sent their way. YEA for JDiggens, Bill, and the “Chase Community – JDA

    • Thanks Dal,

      Well now, I am impressed with JDiggins & Bill, what fine people they are and the drive to overcome.

      I wish them the very best!

    • I went to that very restaurant last year. Outstanding food. First time I ever tried Elk. Looks like fun was had by all. What a wonderful opportunity to meet search friends. Awesome clip Cynthia.

    • What a great story ! Jdiggins captures the true meaning of “The Thrill Of The Chase” in her story, people coming together in a time of need for a fellow searcher. financially , emotionally and willing to help in any way possible…
      folks, this is the true meaning of the chase. It’s not all about some box at the end of the rainbow … it’s about the rainbow itself… jdiggins, my friend, you and Bills colors shine bright…..may your trail through life’s journey be forever sunny…..
      Until next time… see ya

    • Looks like a good time was had by all in attendance!

      PDenver, nice to put a face to the name and I hope all is going well for you and yours.

      • Hello Idle Dreamer. The evening was so much fun. Time went by so quickly. Thank you for your kind words. All is going well, and thank you for asking. Hope you and yours are doing well, too.

    • Thanks Dal and Cynthia… I was planning to attend the buffalo run 2019 but life happened and was unable to attend, maybe next time….
      Sounds like everyone had a blast. It was great to see pdenver and Ray there with you guys, I personally believe that if the thrill of the chase gave out a kindness award pdenver would most definitely be the recipient…..
      Thanks again dal and Cynthia enjoyed the recap…..
      Have a safe search season everyone…. until next time… see ya

    • Thank you for posting the link, Dal. GEYDELKON was a great host and was a pleasure to meet. I wish others were able to attend, but was extremely pleased with those whom I’ve met. The evening was so much fun, and I’m still giggling with the events which occurred. 🙂 Another Chase memory I’ll treasure.

      • Cynthia, you did a great job with your post and video about the event. It was a pleasure meeting you and I hope we can meet again. You’re a gem of a person to know. I’d also like to thank you for your kind words.

    • That is a superb restaurant. I hate the neighborhood though. Gives me the willies every time I go to that side of town.

  21. Ok new contest: I’ll be the judge, since I have never been to the restaurant:

    describe in as few a words as possible, without using any proper names (or any names of actual places of any sort) and without using any numbers, how to get to the Buffalo Run restaurant within several steps. (restaurant is in a Dal link above) So no names, no numbers, no intersections obviously since you can’t use any proper (and/or actual) names…

    the rules are: replies must be in reply to this post, and not a reply to a reply. (I may change the rules, if it becomes necessary)

    the prize is: if you can do this, you will be ahead of the game in finding a bronze box. maybe Dal will smile upon you, but only if he so choses.

    end of contest: (when I see a very succinct cool description, and I can actually find the restaurant within several steps from said description and only that description and a good map, no… no books will give you hints)

    starting pt: there is only one helper clue and it has two proper names: start somewhere in Colorado but 8.25 miles or more outside of Denver city limits, the end pt is the goal. (I don’t know what suburb the restaurant is in, so if it is in a different suburb than Denver, then also must start outside of that suburb limit along with Denver border by 8.25 miles or more)

    This should be much easier than a particular bronze box, but is it? I’ll be the judge of that, and I’ll let you know of my verdict on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being as close as I can tell as how hard the bronze box is. hey I am the judge.

    • If we are talking about the same Buffalo Run restaurant (a golf course in Denver), I would submit this:

      >Start in the place of color
      >follow your quest to the mountains beginning
      >Not so old and not so new
      >Put in where chambers sound
      >Go down beyond your joy
      >Look past your hole to find the treasure

      Weird, right?

      • Buckhorn Exchange is the name of the restaurant in question.

        (Buffalo Run was the informal name of the event held there last weekend)

      • Start in the place of color: I think means Colorado,
        follow your quest to the mountains beginning: I think means go to the foothills.

        ya lost me from there though.

    • Begin at the airport that is a mile high. Travel west then south on the “rock” road. At your road ends, continue towards the setting sun. Cross a creek and a river, then head south on a quarter. Immediately after you cross your river a second time, bear right until the end. From here, travel east a bit and then just prior to the golden arches head south. Continue past the park of a president to the red awning on your left.

      Could easily add or remove words to give direction. But just attempting this short exercise, does give a good feel for what ff went through in giving enough generic info while giving nothing specific.

    • From your home, you must fly,
      To a city of a mile high.
      Lyft yourself with higher ed,
      Right near where wild horses tread.

      Slide south to the watery corner
      Of the 16th presidents’ park.

      Continuing on as former,
      Across the street you go,
      Without the cross of another,
      The landmark you will know.

      (I may have violated some of the terms of your rules, but oh-well…) 🙂

      • JCM,

        I may also have violated some of the game rules, but we seem to be on the same page here. I used fewer letters than you did, but we both composed a riddle that leads to the restaurant. The quandary is: I could have used three words like colorado, city, and buffalo which could lead to the restaurant in question with only some minor mental effort on the searcher’s part. This could make me the winner of this particular contest, but is this what Forrest would have done to secrete his treasure and make it difficult to find? I really doubt it. It has to be more indirect and complicated than that.

        • ** ** ** McKendree wrote – ” . . . we both composed a riddle that leads to the restaurant.” ** ** **

          Impartial observer observation:

          Except you’re heading for the wrong restaurant, McK.

          JCM’s leads to the Buckhorn Exchange.

          Yours leads to the Bison Grill at the Buffalo Run Golf Course, about 20 miles away.


      • Lol – that implies some experience.

        Have to admit, Writis has a clever way to solicit strategies.

        • I guess I’m at a loss, E.C. Waters. I thought Writis’ post had to do with rewording directions to find the Buckhorn Exchange. The Buckhorn Exchange was the first place a liquor license was given in Colorado.

      • it is ok to use experience, in other words “expert” on a “feature”, but if it is lost on me, then you would not get me any closer. (the texan redneck example)

        The object of this is not how obscure one can make the answer, the experiment is how easy one can make directions, without using names, so we can compare any differences or similarities to the poem, this is meant to be the simplest example.. to see where to start.

        what I am seeing is it is very easy to start, it is incredibly hard to get to a precise end point. even when filled with markers all around that end point. and the rule maker giving no indication to make that description obscure.

        strangely, the poem seems to imply a precise pt to start, an intersection in close repetition, then goes wildly un precise after that.

        • Yet, in the Aug. 8, 2018 EIS radio link, Mr. Fenn states, in part, ‘You have to find out-you have to learn where the first clue is. They get progressively easier after you discover where the first clue is.’

    • Foolish contest Writis.
      the prize is: if you can do this, you will be ahead of the game in finding a bronze box. maybe Dal will smile upon you, but only if he so choses.

      No way “ahead of the game”. Puts one no where closer or ahead of anything having to do with the chase.

      no numbers

      As stated, if you take away all the ‘chase’ elements, how can this be a measure of how far someone is ahead/

      How about a contest ‘chase’ related. Find as many statements by Fenn as you can that could possibly have two or more different meanings/interpretations. Maybe Blex should run it. Could answer his question and could measure who is really in tune with what f is trying to say. That person would have a ‘heads up’ on the field chase related.

      • Poisonivey: “no numbers….how can this be a measure of how far someone is ahead/”

        did someone hide a digit in the poem when I was not looking???? if you want to find and/or include invisible codes and numbers, what exactly is stopping you? or are you seeing a different digit laden poem than everyone else is seeing?

        All you need is the poem and a good map, I believe is pretty relevant… and chase related, because well it is after all. If you want to ignore what ff said about codes and ciphers and formulas, and do your own codes, that is perfectly fine with me and the rules, just don’t put any digits in, EXACTLY like the poem doesn’t have any, do you understand now? I would rather keep this chase pure so we have a better idea of how to approach what ff actually did when designing the poem and actually what he did put in the poem, and didn’t put in the poem. He already told us what he didn’t put in the poem, but if that is too un obvious, go for it.

        for the rest who actually want to figure this out, when we get a nice clean description, we’ll see if we can go in even deeper.

        lets keep it simple, and poem related, leave the digits out though… like the poem.

        • Hi, Writis.

          If you allow homonyms, there are digits in the poem.

          If you allow words to be broken down into letters, there are even more digits available.

          If you allow letters to be converted to digits via simple substitution, a child’s game, there is an entire tableau of numbers.

          Starting basic:

          Too means 2 in military parlance. No code or homonym required. But too = to = two = 2 via homonym, as well.

          For = 4 via homonym and Far could = 4 if drawl homonym allowed, as well.

          L is 10 can be read into Listen.

          G 1 can be read into Gone.

          A 1 or A+L = 1 can be read into Alone.

          Have could be Halve by homonym.

          The closest numeric phrase is too far to = 242 using homonyms.

          I am not implying that FF intended these words to be interpreted this way, merely pointing out that you eliminate numbers at your own risk. As you know, I am fully committed to looking at every permutation that I can devise just to see what solutions pop up on widely divergent lines of thought.

          And, in closing, using lat and long lines from any two points create an exact point to search. This may be what FF had in mind because it feels like the poem describes 3 distinct places using different descriptors for each one. For example, wwh = lat and hob = long and chest = lat / long intersect. Super simple concept, and searcher gets to pick the points and match up the clue descriptions.

          Food for thought. Use it, or not, as you see fit.


    • Lets take the best elements from the entries and make a concise direction with end pt.

      1) float in to longest runway in the state.
      2) head to where wild horses play.
      3) from there cross up stream to where rail tracks are thickest
      4) cross the tracks to see pedestrians wait,
      5) end at red awning at the corner.

      so if we wanted to obfuscate this a little.

      1) start at a tarry mac in the states.
      2) head to where we watch and play.
      3) from there cross up stream to where network is thickest
      4) cross it to view people wait,
      5) end at blaze at the corner.

      then later in our own words limit it to 1 state out of 50.

      There is no way in h*ll I would be able to find it with the second version,
      It would take a few mins for anyone to find the first version’s end pt.

      that took me all of 15 mins to write both and obfuscate.

      when ff was done, he thought it was too easy, and spent 15 years obfuscating it further.


      We have a few searchers who think the blaze is not within several steps.. not sure yet how that would even work let alone the extra words of getting something to gain precision.

      ok, well it is a frame of reference on atleast how obscure this is.

      • I like what you are doing here Writis. Just trying to solve the poem has proven to be fruitless so far. Practicing, and learning methods of poem creation possibilities may be the only way to prepare ones mind for this.

        • what I personally learned from this exercise:

          1) the ff poem has no mistakes because of 15 yrs of thought, however even when I was creating the rules and talking about the example, I made mistakes. I believe this is why ff said to the effect: believe nothing but what is in the poem. I think IMO ff has made unintentional mistakes when talking after the fact. Most probably do not contain mistakes. And worse, it is impossible to tell which ones contain mistakes.

          2) the first thing I did was remove any names of actual places. IMO people thinking Molly “Brown”, or “Brown’s” park…. These people are seriously mistaken. and probably the worst mistake one can make. again IMO.

          2b) IMO 2nd references by association are highly suspect… “Brown” trout, Cleveland “Browns”. only because if one is trying to make the thing harder, you also remove 2nd references. IMO ff has made statements that implied he went that extra step.

          3) notice how I left in directions like “cross” “at” “where”, “from”. and obfuscate places instead… IMO ff followed same pattern. I am still thinking about ff going a 2nd step beyond here too? if he was serious about a 1000 years, well I am here to tell you, IMO, it will be far beyond 1 million yrs if he took that step too… but I have no way to know. in my own solutions going forward, I have to believe he did not, since there is literally zero chance of a solve if he did.

          4) the blaze… well IMO there are not enough words in the poem to gain precision without the blaze being the thing that gains that precision. I can not be surprised if I am wrong on this, simply because I did not see enough examples of it being anything else. (too small of a pool to fish in) But that certainly doesn’t mean ff thought about away to do it.

          the 2nd way which I am ambivalent about, is four corners making an “X” from place names. But what this example taught me, is it is extremely difficult to get those places precise enough.

          if people wanted to help by finding other ways for precision that would be interesting.

          5) IMO there is some “buyers remorse” going on here, I think ff made the poem too difficult, and he knows it.

          (not that he wants it found, only that he knows it is a little over the top difficult)

          strangely this part of doing the example came to me as the most important part of doing the example, it was of course the most surprising part of doing the example too, and I offer it freely here. It gave me the biggest insight. and I will have to follow up on it.

          for everyone, good luck in the chase, I mean that seriously. I do not care who finds it. Just the mechanism of how/what is fascinating. not that I think it will be any time soon.

          mic bounces on floor.

          • Writis,

            I felt the same way about #5 following my 3rd, no 4th, ok… 9th trip. It just goes to show that even with all of our human commonalities, it’s our own unique perspectives that define us as individuals. I honestly don’t think he expected it to take this long for someone to find it. And his continued presence suggest to me he never planned to abide by the comment “I am just a bystander now”. I tend to picture most things he says… followed by a wink and a smirk. Maybe that’s my problem….

            Regardless, his ambiguous words have urged, and allowed me to retain many enjoyable memories from the varied locations to which they have led. Those include:

            butte- twice
            mountain top
            residential address
            residential address- different state
            commercial address- in Houston

            Heck, I almost had myself convinced to head to Key West hoping to pier under Mr. Hemmingway’s foot in the town square there. I think my ability to “adjust” has about reached its limit. I have one last do-or-die journey in me, and if that fails…time to belly up to the bar! I’ll buy the first round if anybody wants to join in!

          • Mr. Writis-

            Your avatar shows two lines crossing….I presume you have tried this approach, drawing lines between all possible points you are sure Mr. F is associated with or has mentioned.

            Could you tell me what the points were that you tried?

            Thank you

            1F Billy (Jaw hits the floor)

          • miafarmerfreind
            I d be delighted to join you at the bar for a drink. Unfortunately I am prone to having to many of my favorite drink. Its minty and creamy unlike myself. But I have enjoyed watching the birds fly by in the meanwhile. Staying low as to not being eaten.
            Maybe it’s time to change drinks this year.

          • @Grasshopper, one of my favorite childhood memories was getting a grasshopper shake after church on Sundays from a friend of mine Grandma. She is gone now but her memory lingers on in my mind. I still think of her when I order a grasshopper shake. The downside is most places don’t know what it is anymore.

  22. I don’t post much on here any more for various reasons but I found these videos so interesting I’m hoping they might help focus some of the wild thinking that goes on here into a more logical train of thought. It’s a fairly recent youtube series by a guy named Michael Houle. He’s an academic currently living in Japan and he presents his material as if they are ‘letters’ to Forrest. He’s incredibly articulate and logical in the true sense. They are quite good and IMO spot-on in most respects. This is not to say I agree with everything he presents but mostly good stuff. I will credit Cynthia for bringing this to my attention on her recent blog post. She characterized these as almost like listening to TED talks. I don’t intend to debate whether his thoughts are correct…only presenting it for your benefit . I would recommend listening to all of them before commenting. Here’s links to all the released videos:

    Youtube….The Forrest Fenn Learning Curve
    Houle #001- Introduction, Jan 18, 2019
    Houle #002- First Impressions , Jan 23, 2019
    Houle #003- Trust and Truth- Jan 30, 2019
    Houle #004-Too far to walk, Feb 6, 2019
    Houle #005- A Question of Choice Feb 13, 2019

    • ** ** ** ColoKid suggested – “I would recommend listening to all of them before commenting.” ** ** **

      I couldn’t come close.

      He thinks and sounds too much like a guy in a cabin with a fully-stocked pantry, plenty of firewood, and 12 feet of snow outdoors.

      Like he puts his boots on one year at a time.

      (I have to admit to a huge bias against TED Talks, though, due to a boss who used to inflict his favorites on us for “inspiration”. Kinda like a roommate with a record collection heavy on bagpipes, with titles like “Bags the Beatles!” and “Polka Pipes”.)


      • Yep, slow speaker, & basic interpretation …. or maybe I fell asleep before I got to the good stuff. Ill try again but start at the last one.

    • Thanks for the links Colo. I have to admit that I did listen to a small portion of the last video… I just couldn’t make it all the way through. Michael seems like a very nice guy and I wish him all the best.

  23. Dal had me in lock up for being drunk and disorderly. Someone must have bailed me out…

    Lutz I answered your question about the horsey…Dang it…someone must have spit out their gum on the floor of the jailhouse…and I stepped on it with my good boots. Oh well, it’s better than stepping on a cow pie.

    1F Billy

    • Strangely…..it’s gotten quiet again..


      Did something change? I hear the wheels a turning….



  24. Dal, the topic I’m about to post could fall into different categories, but felt this one might be better. If it isn’t, I apologize and hope you will help me by placing it where it’s most beneficial, please. I’d like to thank those whom I spoke with at the Buckhorn Exchange.

    In the “Thrill of the Chase” book, I’ve noticed the word “cross” is mentioned quite a bit and in different forms. There’s Miss Ford (ford means to cross), Robert Redford, the Oreo cookie with Olga, with a little imagination with the mention of the three teas, Mr. Fenn “crossing” the road when he was a boy, and many more. Could George Washington fit in? Did he “cross” something? I hope you’ll read the book and find them. There’s stories which may be related to this word, too. Mr. Fenn’s kitty likes to eat “disagreeables,” which “cross” is a synonym for said word. Too much imagination?

    This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

    • PD;

      I think that you are “Crossing” into unknown worlds of imagination here – but I like it all the same 🙂 – JDA

    • pdenver—-

      One thing also that came to mind is that in some of Forrest’s writings he appears to be angry–calling things “stupid” etc, To be “cross” is to be ornery. Just wanted to mention that.

      • I concur, Sparrow. There seems to be more than meets the eye. Need to write my thoughts down before I forget where I’m going. (Giggle.)

        This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

    • On your thought PD, a fighter pilot in a dogfight would try to “cross-the-T”. (Getting an enemy in his sites would make the “T”). Maybe crossing that ‘T’ could give TX. Maybe a confirmation of some kind when crossing lines. A “T” and an “X”. If the poem is like putting an “X” on a map, what would put the “T”? Where lines cross, (the middle of the “x”) would maybe be a confirmation. Interesting thought. Me In The Middle…

        • Right Batty, I meant it in more of a term fighter pilots would know of. I should have said aerial combat fighters. If someone was to ask Forrest what ‘crossing the ‘T” is, I’m sure he would know.

    • Didn’t GW cross a river on Christmas Eve before he won’t battle he was supposed to lose? I’m rusty but it may have been the Delaware?

    • Pdenver – That’s an interesting idea. Who knows? Maybe it’s a subtle hint. Thanks for sharing this idea!

      I have a couple of ideas of possible significance of crossing. First, perhaps a stream of some sort needs to be crossed along the line of “no place for the meek” from “below the home of Brown”. Forrest specifically recommended wearing chest-high waders with felt soles when going over safety tips for searching (of course, immediately after talking about the waders, he makes a statement that when in doubt “no can be the better answer than yes”, so maybe he’s also discouraging the idea of needing to cross a stream). If you want to see the specific quote, search “waders” on tarryscant.com and it’s the first entry that pops up.

      Secondly, I have seen evidence on this blog of some people liking the “X marks the spot” type of solve, where the poem is not describing a single path, but two vectors that intersect, with the idea that where the 2 vectors cross is where the treasure lies. I have tended not to buy into this idea, but it’s out there and definitely the type of solve where a cross would play a key role. More ideas to throw into the mulling kettle!

      • Hello Blex. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I’ll be sure to go back and read the search on “waders” to refresh my memory. As for the “X” marks the spot per others’ thoughts, it may be. Mr. Fenn had stated the poem is like putting an “X” on the map, clues are contiguous, and recently, described as a road map. Is it possible to have two vectors cross for which was stated?

        • I wouldn’t rule it out, Pdenver! Perhaps the segment between WWWH & hoB is one vector, and the creek with heavy loads and water high the other?
          It’s also interesting to note that “X” is the only letter of the alphabet that doesn’t appear in the poem. I believe others have noted this already and jumped on that as another hint leading them in this direction. I’m not ruling it out as a possibility!

          • Hi Blex, I had a solve using the X criteria you mentioned. That one didn’t work but I still think it is within the realms of possibilities. The X not being in the poem and “drawing” from “drawing nigh” was a key word for drawing an X on the map. My blaze was the X on a map. When looking quickly down and see the X on the map you tarry scant with your marvel gaze and go get the chest.

    • @pd — Many references to crosses in TTOTC, indeed.

      But there’s another historic gentleman of far greater influence than GW with whom I personally associate a cross.

      So sorry to hear after-the-fact about the Buckhorn event. You and Cynthia are high on my list of ‘who would you want at your campfire to discuss the Chase fantasy event’.

  25. its up its down its all around its in its out with out a doubt odds and ins to Sir, Fenns treasure,
    but Im always lost in my mind But i do have good time good day to all.

  26. Now that we Canadians have determined that the treasure is in Montana, we’ve decided to buy the state and make it a province. The upside is that there will be no taxes imposed on the finder of the chest.

    This week a State committee voted 15 to 5 against selling Montana to Canada, but it’s just a matter of time before we wear them down.

    The story is here on the CTV:


    • $1 trillion is hamster dung, at $22 trillion, lets talk.

      of course you might have to split it with the folk who live there. hmmm, imagine the property values, they would take off so that even $22 trillion would look like unknown hamster dung parts.

  27. Hi, everyone

    Forrest gut feeling is very interesting concept, but I will tell you this. That chest will be found this year. Lots of you are very intelligent but most are not placing the what if equation onto your solve. This year will be my second time I will search and if I don’t find it. I will post my solve, but listen to an advice. The poem is all you need, but once you analyze it and read the book you can find the aberration and hints that Forrest was talking about. Forrest have been talking in circle all this years and have given hints in all his interviews. When I realized it I was content and shook at the same time. Something so simple, but so hard to come up with and I promise you will all be surprise if my solve is the correct location. I have match all the clues from the poem to the book and to the map. If Fenn ever read this, and I hope he does I completely understand his 328 missions in 348 days. The war for me was awesome the preface of the trill of the chase amazing. 20% survival rate on his cancer and the end of his rainbow. When he cover Philadelphia with one finger, the bronze chest is beautiful and can wait to have it. While I love seeping on my Dr. Pepper and love his Bessie story. Fenn thank you in advance :).

    • I do agree it will be found this year. And I do love promises. And I do agree we should all thank Mr. Fenn. Buuuuuuutttt, yeahhhh, not so sure about the rest of it. When will you go on your quest?

      • On the summer for sure, I’m taking my whole family with me. The funny thing when I mention it, that I found the treasure to my wife, she was laughing and was like not again. So I told her give me an hour to explained it to you in detail and with prove. After an hour she was like what are we waiting for. I told her just be patient I know the perfect time to go and it just that feeling that destiny has it for me.

    • Luis,
      I agree that FF has been talking in circles. I also love the story of Bessie and his other stories that teach us the same thing. Im reading Doug Hyde In Stone, from Once Upon A While just now. Interesting how this story tells us exactly the same thing we learned from Bessie and the cats drinking milk. It is so very simple and basic that the lesson can be taught a thousand different ways. But, the knowledge gained is always the same. IMO

      • You are completely right, I was thinking of getting the other books but for the longest I felted that adding more information would hinder me on the search. So I made it a goal not to get distracted and keep poking at the poem and the book. Forrest is sending a massage and once you find that frequency it all makes sense.

      • Hay Flutterby
        how come you bailed out so fast the other day when Sherif Billy was on the hook? Clint

  28. Not sure if I want a Long Island Ice Tea, a Mint Julip, or maybe some Popcorn Sutton Mountain Shine. YEEEEEEP PEEEEEEE
    If the treasure will be found this year I can go back to growing some more of that Glass Gem Rainbow Corn. On one of my BOTG to New Mexico I was introduced to the THREE SISTERS AGRICULTURE TECHNIQUES at Bandelier. That opened the door to Pawnee Eagle Corn and Carl Barnes and his work with the “seed that sings”, GLASS GEM RAINBOW CORN.
    That is one reason it will be sad when the treasure is found, no more flipping logs and doors opening.
    Ancient Chinese: One Thing Leads To Another

    • I will tell you this, even if is found and if is not by me. I will still be happy, I learned so much about nature and how important it is in our life. Seeing a real smile from my kids and have watch them being little explorers on their owned it brings a joy to my soul. Working day to day and being force to work day to day makes you forget about how beautiful the world is. That is why, i want to find it and leave this system of living check to check. The stress about the necessities in life and when nature can provide all to you. That’s why i envy the old days, because survival was a lesson to all in the wilderness. Now days I feel that our youth are in trouble, because they are sustained by technology and materialistic things in life.

  29. I admire and agree with your thoughts.
    One reason reading ffs early exploits was so rewarding. Someone once said that they marched to the sound of a diffent drummer. Rather Walden or Starwood in Aspen….take me into nature….take me home country roads!

  30. I think winter is going to stretch into July by the looks of it. I wonder if Forrest’s gut feeling has returned lol. Maybe GCG will chime in

    • The porcupine sure saw its shadow in that final 6 Q?s at MW – so six more weeks of winter.

      I get crankier than normal those years when February turns into the longest month.


      • I hear you. This solar minimum is letting Winter have a go of it. Sounds like it could be the new normal for the next several years.

  31. Has anyone thought maybe the 9 clues in the poem line up with 9 people in Fenns life? Maybe the poem starts with his mom and dad and family as a kid to air force to life as a grandfather.

    Maybe WWWH is Lily lake. Named after his mom. There is also a twin sisters peak there, like he has twin daughters. Also, there is a Mt Meeker there. Maybe dont go towards there, No Place for the meek..

    Any thoughts?


      • Shoot. Could of sworn they were. Sorry.

        There goes another lead I thought was going somewhere.

      • I wondered why FF chose that strong picture of his two daughters in the Blue Jeans & Hush Puppies chapter… it seems very symbolic, like double omegas. The rigid shapes, the angles of the girls folded arms suggested to me two mountains or perhaps the engineering of a trestle bridge… maybe it was a hint about a bridge or that bridge in the Guilbert Gaul painting. . Later on there was that suggestion about a keyword in ‘tight focus’ …. and that led me to an 1800’s Santa Fe photographer named Brown who specialized in stereopticon photos. Many were of Pueblo’s (homes) and churches in New Mexico. I never followed up on that lead but maybe some other searcher might find it interesting.

    • cluesfromphilly,
      I actually had that area nicely mapped out over a year ago. I even know there is a natural fen not far from Lily Lake. I’d love to hike that area and find that fen just for fun. Meadowlark Lake isn’t too far. Fertig Draw isn’t far either. Fertig means finished (think “end is ever drawing”). I also really liked Baby Wagon Creek. Reminded me of the Gypsies wagons with the rubber wheels. I also liked Old Maid Gulch (think Biddies). But, then I found something in the poem and decided against that area. Still; it is intriguing! If you search there, I’d love to hear about your adventure & see some photos.

    • Your probably thinking of Willie Mae Simpson Smith which is Lily’s twin sister. Forrest’s Mom was a twin.

      • Idle,
        Did you know Lily’s middle name is Gae? Similar to Mother Nature whose Greek Name is Gaia.

        • That I did not but pretty cool. So Forrest’s mother is making changes to the final resting spot while his father is burning a candle at both ends.

  32. Hay JDA
    Looks like you guys are getting a tast of winter again, same here another storm coming in from south west yuck &. yuck.Did you get your vote in
    for the 2019 T Shirt yet?Clint

    • Hi Clint;

      Yes, we have a storm coming in this week – YUCK. Yes, I voted for #15.

      Keep yarm Clint and TRY and STAY SAFE – Spring will come (I hope) JDA

      • Hay JDA
        Me Two # 15
        Rain & 50 mph winds power will most likely go out tonight but I have a generator. Where is everybody .
        I know Forrest said to be quite if you know where the
        TC is at .idid not think that many new the end spot.awful quite on here.

          • I’m not sure what I did or why he let me out again. But any second he may revoke my probation and then I can’t respond.

            He might have let me out because I was being held without a charge, and was complaining about Habeas Corpus and wanting to see the judge…

            I better watch my P’s and Q’s, he’s got thin skin.

            1F Billy

          • If Dal locks me up again…watch my avatar.
            I’ll write a note and make it my Avatar. In the note it will say where to mail the Cheetos.


        • the endless winter has demoralized a lot of searchers. the chatter will pick up when the weather gets better imo lol.

          I’m sure confidence is high in many corners or the search community.

  33. Hay sherif Billy
    if your still in jail maybe I can talk to Dal and kept you there for 3 months
    what do ya think aye. Just joking where is everybody
    Must be out buying grub before big storm hits.are you in Minnesota I am in
    Michigan freezing rain here now.

    • Clint-

      I took you to be a Texas Ranger. What kind of cowboy lives in Michigan? The Deputy lives in Minnesota across the river from the Minnehaha Falls. I live in Jayhawk country, part of Kansas, that is when I’m not in Dal’s Jail!

      Believe me…..everyone is still here….the silence is deafening. It’s like that ole commercial of a room full of people talking and suddenly there’s a hush…..”when E.F. Hutton speaks; everybody listens…” IMO Somethin spurred some thinkin and everybody is listenin…

      Best regards;


  34. Hay Sherif
    I heard the dish washer call and it ain’t the one plunged in the wall.maybe
    All those outher people are still trying to figure out my stairway to heaven
    WHISPER and there still scratching there head.by the way how’s the family
    doing.hope everybody is doing better.

  35. It is quiet. I hear crickets in my head, or could be the tinnitus.

    Did Last questions on mysterious writings have clues?
    I think I found clues in the fennborree t shirt designs.

    Everybody must be buying snowmobiles, metal detectors and shovels and planning to head out soon.

    I knew I shoulda opened a snowmobile/metal detector/shovel store in West Yellowstone, I woulda made a fortune!

  36. Pauley—

    It’s not too late..

    Start a craft brewery……..Name it “The one horse brewery” or something like that. Then you could have a slew of brews like..
    Fenn’s Gold—IPA
    Tarry Scant—-dark beer
    Heavy load—lager etc.

    Then bring the alcohol content to 8.25% except for any light beers which would be 2.055%. Think of everyone who doesn’t find it….they’ll need a cool one to figure out where they went wrong. This idea could be worth more than the strong box!


    • Sherif billy

      Brilliant! Absolutely Genius!

      I love the name “The One Horse Brewery”

      You should copyright that immediately before some stick figure runs away with it!

      You’ll need to sell food too, can’t consume on empty stomach

      New OR Old Hot Dogs?
      Warm Water Soup
      Brave You Are Meatloaf
      Home Fries of Brown
      Blazing Bold Canyon Down Below Chili
      Tired and Weak Trove Trout
      My Secret Sauce Pasta
      I Have Gone Alone In There Burritos
      Hint Of Garlic Pizza Rolls
      Scanty Stuffed Shrimp
      Marvel Glazed Chicken Nuggets
      Wood Fired Potato Skins
      Quickly, The Restrooms Not Far Enchiladas

      • Love the menu options for the One Horse Brewery! So WHERE will we find this place? Do we use a map or a poem to get there? Does it show up on google earth? How far from the parking lot to the table? And can we get desserts with a nickle or must we be rich? Im hungry. Lets eat!

        • Three desserts to add to the menu should be fried pineapple pies, warm bread pudding, and homemade breads with assorted jams.

          I think the suggestions everyone has posted could take off. Ask permission from the gentleman if you’re serious with these thoughts.

          • The desserts are a must! I’d love to see a totem pole, perhaps inscribed with the poem just outside the front door. And the window seats could look out on a cemetery so you can really think deep thoughts while you eat. Instead of giving kids crayons with their menu, how about a few (more than two) marbles. I like it!

          • Cute ideas, Flutterby! With the marbles, there could be a separate room from the eating area with circles on the floor and everyone could join in a game of marbles! 🙂

      • Would you name the Chili “firehole chili” or would you reserve that name for the gender neutral restroom?……Just thinking…..


    • J a Street,

      I don’t see the point of your links to youtu.be which they have nothing to do with the Chase. Besides there is no explanation to go along with your link.

      Must be a newbie or just plain don’t give a c**p…..

        • Pray tell I can’t use my imagination with your posts, they hurt my ears and can’t concentrate or even let my mind wander with all the noise. Nothing there even relates to the Chase. What the heck are you smoking, or drinking causing you to listen to the noise and correlating it to the Chase?

          I forgot, you don’t give a c**p End of discussion IMO.

          Just Say’n

  37. Alone
    oh ‘sole’ a mio
    Tire used as shoes = sole
    Barefoot = sole
    Han Solo
    by myself = sole

    All mentioned by Forrest…must be a reason for all the repetition???

          • Didn’t realize I brought up “twins” with my comment of two left feet. Okay, I think the Chase is getting to me. 🙂

          • J a Street;

            We, as searchers and bloggers, are all free to post anything that is relevant to the search. The key word here is relevant. How are your posts relevant? They do NOT appear to be related in any way to the chase, or to the thread on which they are posted. Your one word comments – like …”Reflection” mean absolutely nothing, as far as I can tell. You said to use “Imagination”. Well, I “Imagine” that all this means something to you – but it certainly means nothing to the rest of us who click on your links hoping to find SOMETHING that makes sense.

            Good luck in your search J a Street – JDA

          • The question is – Relevant to what? Certainly not the Chase – JMO – If I am wrong, please explain how your posts ARE relevant to the Chase – JDA

    • I’m now a bit curious and perhaps someone could help me with their thoughts. As Copperhead has brought up, there are many words in regards to “alone” and we’ve seen “twins” have been mentioned, too. Do they all relate to repetitions/echoes or is there something specific with these words? I’m not sure if I explained this clearly, but hope you’ll understand.

        • Ray-


          “Since ancient times, even before the written word, the Wild Pear tree has been honoured as a sacred tree which symbolises prosperity, good health and future happiness. In many cultures spanning thousands of years, we can find references to the fruit of the Pear tree as a symbol of divine sustenance, abundance and longevity.

          The shape of the pear has represented the female form in the art world for centuries, creating a strong symbol of fruitfulness and femininity. The Pear tree is known to live a long life and produces abundance of fruit for decades. This is perhaps why the Chinese believe that the pear is a symbol of immortality and it can be found in many tapestries and prints over the centuries. It is a popular item to be donated when visiting family shrines to celebrate the lives of loved-ones because of its connection to eternal life.”

          I thought you might find that interesting…

          1F Billy

      • PDenver,
        Can you get my Email from Dal and message me? I will tell you the answer

        • Hello Flutterby. I thank you so much for your kind offer, but at this time, I’d prefer to have discussions through Dal’s blog, please.

    • Soledad = solitary
      Sole joker is in a deck of cards
      Sol means sun which is a star
      Sole, foot, Blackfeet? – ‘teepee’ builders of Montana whose mocassins Mrs. Rockerfeller bought at the gallery (in the story)?

      • Hello Copperhead. The idea of Blackfeet has come to mind, not only by the moccasins, but by the stories told of Mr. Fenn being without shoes. I can only imagine what color they would have been and how many times his mother would have had to bleach them to make them come clean again.

        • Good thinking Pdenver.
          Also about twins….
          Copy clone
          Twin falls
          Twin mountans (like the Spanish Peaks and others in Co.

          • Forrest does like the number 2:

            Slough Creek – 2′ deep quick sand
            Deal – 2 Arabs
            Foundry – 2 guys quit their job, 2 weeks before the Indian market, stay about 2″ ahead
            Bookstore – Hemispheres magazine, I.e. 2 halves
            Two Dollar Pistol
            2 Omega’s
            It was 35 degrees or something like that [less than 2C]
            Several days ago we had 2 inches of rain and the high was 72 degrees
            As a 22 year old sailor in WW-2 George was cruising the South Pacific
            Molten bronze 2000 degrees
            2000 pound body of his prey
            200 smallmouth black bass
            One scored only 2 points
            Special fly box contains about 200 Jungle Cock flies
            10,200 feet
            Soon I’ll plant 200 sapplings
            The pond has 2 waterfalls
            Some searchers have been within 200 feet
            The shelves on the left hold books I think are special, and about 200 of them are unique
            The autobiography in the chest is 20,000 words
            Stayed in the military 20 years and 24 days
            Biloxi was more than 200 miles away
            I’ll give you 20 cents
            Killed 2000 horses
            The rooster is almost 2’ tall
            About 20 collectors held up that market
            Alabaster lady is not tall, just 2 feet
            One of Jerry’s legs was 2 inches shorter than the other
            The bracelet had 22 beads
            Given a 20 percent chance of living three years
            The didn’t find the Rosetta Stone for 2,000 years
            2,000 year old bracelets
            Lost 22 pounds and didn’t even know it
            20 Chapters have postage stamps

          • On the subject of twos, here is one for your thinking cap. Forrest was one of three siblings. He talks about himself in TTOTC a lot (as one does in a memoir) and he talks about his brother a lot, but he only talks about his sister a little bit.

            And how long is a horseshoe before you shape it? Twice the distance plus an inch (a little bit).

            A little more than two. But not fully three.

            Perhaps twice a horseshoe is roughly a Buffalo nickel on the floorboards of a Ford during Spanish class?

            Is any of that significant to the Chase? I’m sure I have no idea. (My mind is making some really weird connections these days. I’m curious to see how it all turns out.)

          • No problem PD, I had notes on this handy from my research on a solve using 2 lines that form an X.


    Mr. F has reiterated that every word in his poem has meaning and not to “mess” with the words. Knowing that fact, it then stands to reason that every letter of each word is also important. Soooo… I typed each line of the poem into an anagrammer to see if anything would light up. The results are listed below for each line of the poem beginning with the first clue WWWH:

    1. BMW whitewashing real art tree
    2. IT hackneyed wanton toad
    3. OF bulwark fart tan toot
    4. THEN flowerpot boo whine bum

    5. LEFT interferometric shampoo heke
    6. NEVER handwriting his edge
    7. TRUNK procedurally hoped bee eel
    8. SOLD readjusting hay have what

    9. FIND vandalizes buoy few hue been toe
    10. WILL sequencers quota cooky toy kudo
    11. MY burglarizes what vet cat rant
    12. THE conjugated sheepskin cat ate

    13. YOU mights twist oat his
    14. AND soliloquy request woke cooky cut
    15. SEDAN newsworthy lake air
    16. THAT reawaken avoided wide minion

    17. IT longshoreman loaded alas
    18. I electrolyte throw whorl buff do
    19. IN veterinary woof hue boa dad
    20. I livelihood yet get to tug

    Then I put the first words of each line in the anagrammer and this is what I got…..


    Mr. F did say he made two trips to his car…Maybe it was only to his trunk..

    You just can’t make this stuff up. I am afraid all is lost.

    I’m going to check the lost and found..


  39. I believe too many searchers hang onto every word F says verbally as clues or hints to justify answers to the clues when instead the focus should be with the poem a map, along with subtle hints in the book, (TTOTC) nothing more. Of course I listen to what he has said up at the Cheat Sheet at the top of every page here on the hoD. I do heed what F says about what is needed to solve the clues in the quotes below.

    “The poem was written to assist all searchers. In my mind, studying the clues is tantamount to using a road map to get from one place to another.” over at MW.

    “Read the clues in my poem over and over and study maps of the Rocky Mountains, Try to marry the two. The treasure is out there waiting for the person who can make all the lines cross in the right spot.”f Business Insider 2/8/2018

    “Stop arm chairing that thing to death and get out in the trees where the “box” is, but before you go, look at the poem as if it were a map, because it is, and like any other map, it will show you where to go if you follow its directions.” f MW May 4, 2017

    “I would advise new searchers to look for the clues in my poem and try to marry them to a place on a map. It seems like the longer one thinks about the search the more they complicate the problem.”f MW 2/4/2017

    Also one more thing to consider, ““All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem.”f. Cheat Sheet hoD

    I hope I made my point, the focus should be on the poem and marring it to a map, not so much with ATF & Q&A, some do help but not all IMO.

    Just Say’n

    • CharlieM—

      Didn’t you just use a bunch of ATF and Q&A answers to justify your statement?

      However,…I agree with you.



      • Billy,

        I confess I did, the key words are, “to justify answers to the clues” the quotes do not answer or point to any clue(s).

        So do I get bail or are the charges dropped? I don’t want your deputies knock’n on my door at 3 am, any other problems talk to my lawyer and let me sleep in peace, please!!

    • Sure seems like Forrest wants us to “try to marry them to a place on a map.” – or said in a different way…marry something on a map to a particular place.

      • Heeeeeeyyyyyy JDA!

        Thanks for kind words on the menu for the one horse brewery, sherif billy got the Imagination wheels turning on that one.

        My brain is compressing with that Forrest statement,
        Try to marry clues to places on a map,
        Forrest also said,
        The little girl from India can not get past the first 2 clues with a map,
        It’s certainly confusing to me.

      • pdenver, I do keep the book in mind, provided I can recognize the subtle hints in it.

        Thanks for the link.

        • Perhaps they’re in the aberrations, although understanding what they mean may fall into the poem. Oh, that poem! 🙂

    • CharlieM – This is a great group of quotes you have compiled, and I agree with your interpretation. ATF comments can definitely help jog one’s imagination and way of thinking, but if I can’t ultimately take a solve back to the poem and see pieces falling into place when comparing the two, I tend to move on.

      I’m interested to see how this year’s search season goes for me. One of my new solves started with an ATF comment as a jumping off point, and I ended up really liking how the area it led me to seems to marry up with the poem. That would be interesting if whoever found the chest used a sort of a “back door” approach to solving the poem like that. I’m pretty sure that I’m not the only Chaser thinking along these lines.

      • Blex,

        Thank you for your comments, I hope your theory works out, just keep in mind, stay grounded and try to stay realistic and logical.

  40. Paraphrasing, “Don’t mess with my poem”. Very well could be just exactly as it says, but my mind likes to think of other words which could replace another, but still mean the same thing. “Don’t ‘adjust’ my poem.” Another, “Don’t ‘alter/altar’ my poem.”

    • What if it was just as it is but something else to. What if it was more then 1 or 2 different things that were the same as one.
      Or more for that matter.
      Only time will answer that question.
      I feel that to many just don’t follow his directions.
      We all seem to know more than the other person. That shall be the demise of us in this new age. Maybe we need to make a difference.
      Pay attention to steps and key in on focal points that help solve the map. Listen to what is said not what is read. Mr. Fenn. Probabably already said all this. I’ve been told I am a broken record so I try to stop sooner than later. But what do I know.

      • I almost forgot something. Most ‘important’. If you don’t find something more important than yourself in this you will never figure it out. The proof will never be proved unless you can see it. That’s the truth.
        That’s more than I need to say.

        • Hello Grasshopper. Would you explain a little more, please? I seem to be a little lost in understanding your thoughts. For me, there is One Whom is Truth, and much more, but I’m not sure if this is what you’re trying to say in your post. I apologize for trying to guess, and hope you’ll explain.

          This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

          • pdenver

            You are correct in your assumptions about the truth I think you are referring to and I think you may be wondering about more. That’s an onest thought. I guess I just think that there is more to this then finding the chest. What all that is I do not know. I just remember the line as I have gone alone in there. I believe that has a lot to do with the answer. Just thoughts for myself that I shared.
            I believe that if anyone knew were the chest was they would not share that info. And that all who are so confident do not know that much. Not excluding myself.
            I hope this helps clarify.

          • I appreciate you sharing your thoughts and for clarifying. I believe the depths from which we can learn from this is endless.

    • Don’t “overcook” my poem. Macleans, Oct. 20, 2017.

      Lots of pies.
      And Fritos and coke over brown bag lunches.
      And going through his wife’s spices.
      And he “sprinkled” hints
      And homemade bread imagined to be strawberry shortcake.

  41. Looks like there’s a new sheriff in town. If you draw on him you better be prepared to meet your maker. This guy is good.

  42. So, if we study maps to mary the clues to a place and we have to know geography then “no paddle” has to be about geography and on a map.
    I see a “paddle” being a man-made structure unless it’s a beaver, duck or spanking paddle.
    How does “paddle” fit into geography?
    I dunno.

    • Mr. Jake…

      If I were you I would read “The song of Hiawatha”. Then I think you would understand. Literature class dismissed.


        • Mr. Jake..

          Why the cynicism. I’m trying to help you. I didn’t make the clues or references famous pieces of literature in my book…

          Don’t listen to me…what do I know? Reminds me of the fella that was quoted by his friend as saying..”Don’t bother me with that map and compass,…I’m blazing a trail”

          nuf said


    • Jake,

      “no paddle” the paddle doesn’t exist, more than likely the creek is too shallow, or very narrow. Just a thought.

      • I’ve been at a lot of creeks in the appalachians and a few handfuls in the Rockies and most by far, you cannot paddle up or not worth the effort.
        Geography comes into play on every creek where water flows downhill so that doesnt play into geography when it’s 100%.

        Where’s the geography connection with “paddle” that gives us separation from the 100% downhill journey that we all know?

        • Jake: “Where’s the geography connection with “paddle” that gives us separation from the 100% downhill journey that we all know?”

          Forrest: “Emily, all the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem.”

          Poem: “There’ll be no paddle up your creek,”.

          Disjointed thoughts:
          – What “information” did F embed in this line of the poem?
          – Is there a clue? Highly probable, IMO.
          – Is there an instruction? Highly probable, IMO.
          – What “information” did F embed in this line of the poem?
          – Is “paddle” associated with a clue, or is it a part of some other tidbit of information?
          – Is the searcher’s (virtual) movement “downhill” from this point of the journey?
          – What information does “There’ll be” provide?

          Many questions and, of course, no answers – yes, I’m confused.

    • Jake, long time…

      If we consider TTOTC words as potential hints, and as you have pointed out, “paddle” can mean “spanking” or, as Fenn also used, “licking” and “switching”. The word “tongue” is used in geography with rock formations, while “switching” can also be a TTOTC term correlated with trains, e.g., Warm Springs Station for WWWH.

      • Well, maybe I got this contextually wrong with trains, but perhaps topically relevant with the Pony Express route (when looking at other relay stop names) … hell, who knows. Not me.

          • And the “stage” coaches that pop up here and there, e.g., the Shakespeare quote, the interview next to the wagon in his backyard, the Gypsy Magic chapter with the word “Wyoming” hidden in the grass like a “Highlights for Children” drawing?

          • pdenver, I can’t help but wonder what I’m missing in the grass before apofennia-imagined “Wyoming” on p43. Have you any hazardous guesses?

          • E.C. Waters, as others have suggested, it looks like a foot. “If” it was drawn on purpose, which I’m not sure, while thinking of a “foot,” I could imagine 12″, which is the measurement of a “ruler,” which we’ve read in another story about Frosty.

          • Wait. Not the dancing lady’s foot. I mean “does the grass all the way from the beginning up to ‘Wyoming’ spell anything to you?”

          • Ok. But if I could make the case that the full word “Wyoming” could maybe be distinguished, what would the probability of that look like to you? And then, if I could do that, what could we find awaiting in the rest of the grass?

          • No. But perhaps he added them himself? Honestly I have no clue what to think. But it does look to me like the word “Wyoming” can be distinguished. And then I wonder what I am missing, other than a brain.

          • Hello E.C. Waters. If Mr. Fenn had added to the sketch, wouldn’t the artist have noticed at some point? I think you have a good imagination and I hope you’ll continue to use it.

      • EC,
        I don’t like to stray too far from “paddle” definition.
        To go from “paddle” to “tongue” takes too many side steps to make it happen and you could say that “paddle” could be “taste” as in taste buds on a tongue.

        Too far to stalk.
        Thanks for your honest input though it may be relevant.

        • Jake,

          Then perhaps a different locational correlation would be to the evolutionary reference of Seminoe named areas. The story here is that the area is named after a French trapper, Basil “Cimineau” Lajeunesse (the young). Cimineau probably evolved from “chemineau”, or “gypsy”. Early cartographers assumed people were saying “Seminole”, and later had mistakenly omitted the “L” from the word when carrying on the phonetic. Seminoles speak “Creek”.

        • Yes, but there was another in southern Wyoming along the Pony Express route and Oregon Trail that is just as easy to google, probably around here: 42.514111, -108.163675.

    • Many believe that “no paddle” helps with identification of a creek that a paddle should not be used on and following it, or walking in a different direction rather than the paddling on a creek direction. Paddle itself not being geography but helping with the description of the creek and or direction.

      • Sure, creek is the geography part of it and now we have other “descriptors” or “qualifiers” to help indicate the correct creek in the poem which should be a geographical place if he is straightforward but “paddle” doesn’t fit with other natural “descriptors” or “qualifiers” as “heavy loads” and “water high” which can easily be natural geographical features.

        • Is it the fact that it is a noun that causes you to want to look for something in geography related to it?

          I see “no paddle” as more of a negative condition associated with the creek part of geography. We have a precedent of such already with “Not far”. I don’t believe we need to associate far with something in geography. Because it is negative condition we should like at what areas are not associated with it I think.

    • Hi Jake,

      There is an expression “up the creek” to mean that someone is in trouble or in a difficult situation. The addition of “without a paddle” in alternative forms is considered by some to suggest an intensification of the difficulty of the situation. I think that the line “There’ll be no paddle up your creek” is another form of the same expression, and Fenn replaced “without a” with “no” and switched the order of the expression so that he can get the rhyming correct with the “meek.”

      Also since this line is written in a future tense (most of the lines are written in a present tense except a couple lines written in the present perfect tense) we’d better interpret that line as a description of the condition happening at a later time, maybe after you get the chest and while you’re returning to your car with the chest on your backpack IMO.

      — MK

  43. You would think that this poem was written in an unknown language. Do we first have to decode and decipher the language or do we just take FF at face value and don’t mess with his poem?
    I don’t have a solve, I have a theory. I base my theory on an extrapolation the poem, the history of the man and his ways and mannerisms as I interpret them, and I support it with what I think are hints, and man there have been a bunch. In very humble opinion FF has wanted this baby found for a long time. Through the cold days of winter, of which they are seeming like they will never end, I continue to search for other hints that would guide me in a different direction. I have found none. Come on sunshine, chase the snows away but here is the thing…I could be wrong, I could be lost, I could be hearing in the wrong dialect.

  44. I remember the story about the Washington painting….
    I remember the story about the Judge…

    Now Mr. F did you really know this (following) interesting factoid?

    “United States President George Washington appointed 39 Article III United States federal judges during his presidency,[1] which lasted from April 30, 1789 to March 4, 1797. The first group of Washington’s appointments—two justices of the Supreme Court of the United States and ten district court judges—began service two days after Congress passed the Judiciary Act of 1789, which formally established the federal judiciary.[2] Washington’s last court appointee received his commission twelve days before the end of Washington’s presidency.

    As the first President, Washington was responsible for appointing the entire Supreme Court; he appointed a record eleven justices, including two Chief Justices who were confirmed from outside the Court and one former Justice named as Chief Justice by a recess appointment, but not ultimately confirmed to the position. Additionally, Washington nominated Robert H. Harrison, who declined to serve,[3][4] and nominated William Cushing for elevation to Chief Justice,[5] who likewise declined.[Note 1]”
    Taken from wikipedia

    F did you really know? amazing…..


  45. Just like that, TTOTC, goes from deafening silence to intense drama. You never know what’s next. Good stuff. 🙂

    • It’s called “Cabin Fever”, EP.

      A sign of the season. Symptoms can sometimes persist all the way to St Patrick’s Day.

      I take solace in the fact that, for the next two months, sunrises and sunsets will be leaping northward along the horizon at the fastest pace of the year. Plenty of light in the tunnel if you know where to look.


  46. Hmm … (thinking). …
    Sherif Billy => fisher billy can
    … but why? It’s a big old pot for cooking fish. Hmm? (Scratching no head) ….
    Well there’s always tomorrow.

    • Easy Peasy: “Alex. I’ll take famous authors for 800

      Alex: “OK. This famous author spent much of his last thirty years on a boat, the name of which literally means; “hairy or hair””

      Easy Peasy:…

      • Well, after googling this I find nothing. I was never really good at trivia. So, I got nothin. But I’ll bet Mel Fischer spent many years at sea looking for the Atocha. It took him 17 years to locate the mother load … and they are still looking for treasure.

  47. I think it’s so important to keep asking “why?” Paddles in the book refer to trouble. Why would one get in trouble? He turned his boot and June hurt her shin…so he got in trouble. Shin deep perhaps? And painless. But if the creek is shallow then where are these “heavy loads?” Do these loads reference the same condition of our creek/river/hot spring etc.? We see loads when Forrest and his mother are under the “lean to.” We see loads with Forrest’s logging days. We see bombs dropping in war. We see loads with him carrying the chest. And if the loads are actually referencing the chest then what is our water high? Tears perhaps? A waterfall? Felled trees?

    I imagine this place to be a reconciliation, both mental and physical. And maybe we don’t need to know all of the why, we just need to know enough. Can anyone fully solve Forrest’s poem? Is there a “correct” solve or is there a “good enough” solve that will do the trick?

    We are afforded the freedom to check it out. That’s good enough for me.

    • Hello Copper. I enjoyed your post. It always struck me odd in how June had hurt her shin. I’ve tried to imagine the position of each and how it could have happened. How could she have hurt her shin? Possibly a “wounded knee”? Keep up the good work.

      • I’m from a large family and can remember numerous occasions when someone’s shin got in the way of someone else’s boot. I’m going to guess that Forrest’s boot hit June’s shin lengthwise. Forrest said he got a spanking for it. As further punishment his father might have done something like cut the toe off the boot to prevent Forrest from hurting her again.

        • Hello MM. I think you would be laughing at me if you just saw me trying to June and how it would have happened if I tried to kick. It would seem she would have had to stand close to him in order for her shin to have got hurt, while Mr. Fenn turning sideways (?) and, I would guess, drawing up his leg/foot to protect himself from the blow. Her leg couldn’t have completed the kick if her shin was hit. Perhaps we should look at the “injustice/blame/fault” in the story and the “spankings” he received because of this. Gosh, that gentleman’s bottom must have turned red from all of the spankings he’s mentioned in his stories.

          • I can see “sideways” as being a “profile” and I believe this has been suggested in his stories in a roundabout way.

            This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

      • All good responses. Steep slope works for me so I’ll take it. If one is in a canyon that is a likely scenario as well.
        Pdenver-interesting theory on positioning and the profile.
        I believe that the book is so important. It’s vital. In it he gives us hints as to how to decipher the poem. That’s what I love most about it, all of the interpretations. So many great solves and ideas.

  48. Where is the sheriff guy? Dal is being a stickler over on the T-shirt contest page and deleting all posts with anything but a simple number for the vote. How dare he enforce the rules! Can we put Dal in jail???

  49. Most native New Mexicans know of the term “no paddle up your creek” it reffers to a small town called “Arroyo Seco” which means literally dry creek.

    I am not the only native who knows this, but if you were to ask around in Santa Fe or Taos, many of the older generation would say this, but the way this appears in our poem is a deeper thought, like the one mentioned about being in trouble, like not being able to walk it, too far so maybe another mode or put in is required.

    Halt a minute and listen to the 1800’s lingo, treasures new and old, bold as the west, now only two ideas for this come to my mind..IMO, Santa Fe Trail or the Santa Fe RR’s that my friends is how the West was won.

    Scrapbook Sixty Two…
    Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f


    • funny, ff doesn’t mention some of the things he’s “enjoyed the most” from the “smallest voices” (whispers?) anagrams.

  50. TT,

    IMO, the poem is a layered cake..

    Read the poem.. bottom line, get relaxed and focused.. and ignite your imagination.. read the book.. let his stories sink in..

    Now read the poem again.. slowly.. grok the deeper meaning to reader.. see how it applies to book.. read book again.. slowly.. check against geography against it if you like.. personally, I would stay focused on book at this point..

    Finally, read poem again.. take it in..
    Read book again SLOWLY.. focus and imagination fired up real good.. now mapping should be illuminating..

    Rinse/repeat as needed


    • Keep in mind how Forrest doesn’t like rules.. makes his own.. so keep mind open.. be flexible.. allow for wide variety of possibilities…


      • That’s a pretty good rule of thumb. But make sure to check the blink. And don’t cover up Philadelphia.

  51. “There are also other subtle clues sprinkled in the stories.” FF page 155 in TTOTC book

    FF is saying to look for other CLUES in the book, right?

    FF also said he realized he had mistakenly written the location of the chest in TFTW but that someone would have to be a genius to figure it out.
    (So why not go word for word looking for possibilities in TFTW?)

    The clues plus hints are in the books according to FF. Plus the hints FF has given on TV, interviews, etc. (altitude, 4 states, etc)

    However, FF has also said that the poem is all one needs to find the treasure.
    A good poem disection is here:

    Just my humble opinions though.

    • Hello Copperhead. Would you be so kind to show where Mr. Fenn stated he had mistakenly written the location of the chest in his book, “TFTW,” please? I don’t recall reading/hearing this information.

    • ** ** **
      Copperhead claimed – “FF also said he realized he had mistakenly written the location of the chest in TFTW but that someone would have to be a genius to figure it out.
      (So why not go word for word looking for possibilities in TFTW?)”
      ** ** **

      You must have access to some unique collection of ff quotes, completely unknown to others.

      No fair.

      (But you should definitely try going through TFTW word by word looking for possibilities. At least until the weather clears.)

      • He (ff) does talk about it there – give it a look’n’listen.

        He actually says, in order –

        ” . . . there are clues in my new book [TFTW] that can help a person.”

        . . . and a few minutes later –

        “Well there’s a major clue in the book [TFTW], but I don’t think it will help you find the treasure chest. I’ll tell you what the clue is . . . ”

        . . . and maybe a minute after that –

        “There are no clues in this book [TFTW], but there are some hints.”

        So in TFTW “there are clues” and “there are no clues”, according to the author, speaking and answering questions at Moby Dickens.

        Any “mistakenly written location” and “big clue leading to the chest” quotes re TFTW, though, must come from somewhere other than the Moby Dickens talk, and/or from someone other than ff.

        I don’t think they’re bona fide ff quotes, or even probable paraphrases, so wouldn’t spend time or effort trying to crack them open.


    • This text by “Copperhead” should be deleted unless there is supporting evidence:
      “FF also said he realized he had mistakenly written the location of the chest in TFTW but that someone would have to be a genius to figure it out.”

      Or just delete the whole thread.

      • I only put in quotation marks (meaning FF’s actual words) when it can be proven and I list the source as above when quoting FF. (as I quoted from the book above).

        Otherwise, if my opinion of how I understood what he said…but dont quote from a proven source then the sentence contains no quotation marks around what I think he said. And, further, I write at the bottom of my posts that it’s my humble opinions.

        (In short, anything which I write which are not in quotation marks (in my posts) is my opinion or my memory only. However, to ensure clarity, in the future I’ll make my opinions more clear by writing paraphrased words with a disclaimer such as, “I may be wrong but I remember FF saying something like………”)

        • If you start a discussion with “I may be wrong, but ff said something like . . . ” then any ensuing discussion/argument is inevitably going to be about whether you’re wrong or not. As happened above.

          example – “I could be wrong, but I seem to remember ff’s poem says something like you have to get smart and start a fire.”

          Why do that? Cut through all that and get to the chase.

          Provide an *actual* quote, then say what you think the implications are, and the ensuing discussion/argument can be about your interpretation, and implications, and possibilities, instead of about your documentation.

          Any productive discussion or argument has to begin with a mutually agreed point of departure.


        • You can say anything you want to the equivalent of your own opinion was stated but when folks state something Fenn said when he didn’t, it confuses people especially those here that have heard just about everything he had to say many times over.
          It’s also misleading others if they believe what you stated he said but wasn’t true.

  52. FF made statements almost one year apart and used the word “marry”. FF has said he is a word person who looks up the meaning of words.
    Marry: To join two ropes end to end by interweaving their strands.
    Splice: To join ropes by interweaving strands.
    Marry and Splice have Proto Indo-Euorpean roots.
    Also, rope is a term for metal stranded conduit wire (electrical, phone, tow-cables,etc.) and the wire is connected by “marrying” or “splicing” the two ends. I know this because I used to be cable splicer.
    FF was an electrical technician who worked on radar equipment and most likely would have used the term “rope” and spliced cables together. I also worked for almost 34 years with radar techs in the real world.
    The only other definition for marry relates to matrimony. I believe FF used the word “marry” as a hint/clue or whatever you want to call it and it has something to do with wire ropes.

      • Mr. Tarheel-

        Just how much weight could a braided, two inch diameter, metal rope support? Just wondering?


          • pdenver–

            I am not sure what you are asking. However, I was asking about modern times and materials.

            Historically though, in that general area, they had a mishap the first time they tried the “wire rope…system”. The “thing” they sent down that wire rope had automatic brakes which weren’t good enough to stop the heavy load. The thing then crashed through the building it was suppose to stop in, traveling out the other side. I am not sure but I don’t think they ever were able to perfect the “system” and gave up.

            You see Billy likes history….it’s interesting.


          • Sorry pdenver–

            I’ve decided and promised myself to go into radio silence for a few days……

            I’ll be back next week….

            Best regards;

            1F Billy

        • The chart says 32 tons, is the safe load. I would think it could pull 50 tons on a straight pull.

          • Sherif Billy,

            My solve refers to the electrical loads. FF was an electrical tech and the double Omegas represent to me Ohms. Electrical loads can be heavy, not by weight, but by the amount of electricity through the lines. pdenver is on the right track with telegraph which has become phone lines. In many canyons the electrical and phone lines are on the same poles. The kids in the book holding the rope are representative to me of power lines. Also, powerline easments are almost always clear and in the southwest with the drier climate could last for 100 years.
            Hope this helps.

          • Tarheel-
            Forrest was not an electrical tech. In the AF he was a radio technician..
            You are playing loose with facts…please stop doing that…

          • Tarheel Searcher,
            That’s one interpretation of a clue I would not want to touch, literally, seeing it would kill you.
            If the poles keep falling down in wind, they may decide to put them under brown I mean ground.

            Did they have electricity in their W.Yellowstone cabin in the 30’s?

    • I’m sure it’s not relevant to The Chase, but there is an archaic use of “marry” that is surprisingly well-known due to the number of people who have either suffered or rejoiced in exposure to Shakespeare. It’s kind of a general-purpose exclamation.

    • Heavy loads-cordage-umbilical cord-reception-tangled phone cords-and god forbid when lightening strikes. Benjamin Franklin.

      Could we be looking for the big tree that his Grandmother warned against getting “too big?”

      Maybe that’s how he knows when it’ll be found. We have to create the link. With my luck I’ll shock myself and blast into outer space….penniless and well done.

      I wish this snow would melt.

  53. You know, there seems to be some noticeably peculiar goings on in this here blog lately. And hey, whatever happened to that Goofy guy anyway? He mysteriously disappeared. Just wondering.

      • HappyThoth – Dal had mentioned a little while ago that he had corresponded with Goofy and Goofy said he was backing out of the Chase for at least a while. I believe he also was in the midst of moving and starting a new job, but otherwise he was doing fine. Not sure if someone else has taken over Goofy’s old duties of administrating this site; Dal may be doing it solo right now.

        • Hello Blex. A while ago, Dal mentioned Chris was helping with the site. I think he’s still doing so, but not positive.

    • ** ** **
      EPeasy wondered:
      1 – “. . . there seems to be some noticeably peculiar goings on in this here blog lately.”

      2 – “. . . whatever happened to that Goofy guy anyway?”
      ** ** **

      1 – As I posted above, it’s “Cabin Fever” season. Right up to the Vernal Equinox in 3-4 weeks sometimes.
      After that, it’s still a good 3 months of snowmelt and runoff in the mountains till the Summer Solstice, but at least you can get out and about, so the claustrophobia breaks up before the ice is done.

      2 – I don’t think anyone knows who or where Goofy is. I seem to remember Dal addressing that question, but can’t remember whether that was a month ago or a year ago.


    • Peculiar, odd? I resemble that remark. I vaguely recall talk of the chili line up to antonito co. Has anyone spent serious time further up in alimosa? Interesting landmarks from Zapata falls west to del Norte and South fork.

      • I spent about 6 years living in Alamosa and tromped all over the San Luis Valley. Whether you have a Solve in that area or not, Zapata Falls is definitely worth a visit. The Sand Dunes are also worth a look. They can be strangely beautiful at night.

        • Thanks Ray. Only passed through last year, will make time this year to stop and smell the pine and sage. Each trip has been worth every moment.

  54. With the posts above about “no paddle up your creek” and “marry the poem to a map” as usual is IMO being over complicated. “There’ll be no paddle up your creek, just heavy loads and water high, IMO means there is a creek that is of either, very shallow, narrow or has a steep decline in elevation, or could be comprised of all three.

    “Just heavy loads” can be referring to vehicles or backpacking “and water high” is more than likely a natural lake at a higher elevation that feeds the no paddle creek.

    IMO all three references of that section in the poem is more about putting one in a small area where the blaze is at and probably where the tc is located as well.

    Note that I didn’t make references to the book or any quotes from F, and my thoughts are not over complicated and keeping in what F said last February 4, 2018, to “simplify”. Of coarse all is IMO.

    Just Say’n

    • I forgot to mention about marrying the poem, this IMO is very simple “match” the poem to a place on a map. The key to the starting place on the map is wwwh. I believe F said something on the lines that the clues get easier towards the end of the poem. (not a quote just the gist)

      I hope this helps.

      Just Say’n

    • CharlieM :
      “Just heavy loads” can be referring to vehicles or backpacking.

      I will eat my hat if “Just heavy loads” are related to those unnatural things.
      We are talking about a creek right? Are these backpacks being carried down the creek and the vehicles floating down as well.
      Load: a heavy or bulky thing that is being carried or is about to be carried.
      This tells me that “heavy loads” is something heavy being carried down the creek which also tells me that the creek is not a small creek.
      My brain drain.

      • @jake could it be a seasonal spawning stream where the fish are laden with eggs and only go there when the water level is just right? Maybe a braided stream with lots of forks and most of the year to shallow for boating. All in my imagination!

        • I guess it depends on what Fenn thinks are “heavy loads”.
          Are the fish or eggs heavy loads? Possibly to the fish but I don’t think we have to put our mind into a fish writing the poem.

          “water high” should be that way year round unless the poem is only good for a certain time of the year which doesn’t make sense to me unless it’s hidden in the text of the poem that I cannot see.

          Braided streams are usually lower in flow, depth and volume considering the main stream is spread out in multiple outlets down stream.

          I do believe there is a fishing area involved if not the whole poem speaks of, but seasonal spawning to find the treasure doesn’t make sense seeing most don’t know when that begins or ends for different types of fish.
          Another brain drain.

          • I’m not entirely sold on the whole “fishing theme” theory; it feels too predictable. But maybe I’m wrong. Anyway….

            To me, a heavy load sounds like a burden, and if you are walking into “water high”, you just might be getting into trouble over your head. Correlates quite nicely with getting stuck up the creek without a paddle.

            Perhaps something about this waypoint looks tempting, but your are just supposed to take note of it as a marker and keep on going straight. Maybe there is a boulder painted to say “shortcut”. Remember, there are no shortcuts. 😉

            Or, put into a different metaphor mix….

            What do you do with your guilty burdens? You confess them. Then you pay penance (get a paddlin’, if you are confessing to Principal Fenn). But someone who is on the One True Path has nothing to confess, so does not get a paddlin’. So, don’t deviate no matter how tempted; stay on the straight and narrow.

      • Jake,

        You said, “I will eat my hat if “Just heavy loads” are related to those unnatural things.”

        You best pick out the hat your going to eat. You might as well pick out the sauce to help you swallow.

        • Some here have said the same CharlieM.
          No one has been able to make me chew cause no one has found the chest so you can eat your words as others have done.

          It’s in the dead of winter with feet of snow on the Rockies.
          Not many hikers or searchers with backpacks on the trails if any at all. Probably snowmobilers with backpacks most on designated trails. Are the snow machines heavy loads too…
          Sooo I guess the heavy loads are not up the creek but waiting for spring or summer where the whether is more comfortable. How can that be?

          There are no heavy loads in the dead of winter or when they close areas do to forest fires or bear kills but yet you can read the poem year round and it should be relevant and accurate year round no matter what the weather you can possibly retrieve it.
          Not logical at all to have backpacks as “just heavy loads”.

          I’m looking for something natural that is permanent for 1K years or longer and not intermittent where “heavy loads” disappear every winter or warning. Maybe a scree field in the creek or logs that caught up in a certain area on a creek or just polished boulders being carried downstream.


          • Jake

            Funny thing, F has continually warned about winter…. Could you show me where F says he can “go get it *anytime*” or *anytime of the year*? I may be missing something all I ever heard or read, was he can get it and maybe inclined to get it. Hmmm…..?

          • I don’t think “he” could *go get it* – anytime – or – any time of the year – as you state.

            This is what I said and you should read it again: “no matter what the weather you can possibly retrieve it.”

            Then you twist it around CharlieM.

            So, where are your “heavy loads” right now CharlieM?
            Sitting by the fire? That must be the blaze.

            Read, understand, realize and think!

    • One more thing CharlieM,
      In the poem it says “paddle” = singular – not paddling.
      It does not say – There’ll be no paddling up your creek.
      Read, examine, think and realize what is stated.

      • Jake,

        Just were did I say paddling, your thoughts not mine. Thanks also for the suggestion to read, examine and think. I’ve done what you have suggested many, many times over.

        I would suggest you do more of the same. 🙂

      • Hi Jake,
        There are some roads in WY that you can’t pass since they are physically blocked and nobody can take that roads. If the chest is hidden in some parts of WY that can’t be passed during winter you cannot take the chest even if you know the exact spot. Sorry.
        — MK

        • Not true MK,
          If I knew exactly where the treasure is I would take a snowmobile to it.
          Let it snow and I will go if I know.

          • Hi Jake,
            I think the hiding place of the chest IS NOT accessible even with the snowmobile if that area is covered with the snow. You can view that area from a far, but you have to risk your life to get to that place, according to my solve. Remember the line “From there it’s no place for the meek.” Good luck on your snowmobile.
            — MK

  55. Okay CharlieM, let’s see.
    Agree about the creek.
    Agree about water high.
    Agree water high feeds creek, probably snow melt from nearby mountain.
    Agree about heavy loads, backpacking, people have walked in the area of the chest.
    Agree, putting one close to the blaze and the chest.
    Amazing, I agree with you. lol.
    And, the clues get easier as you go. So, the second is easier then the first, the third easier then the second, and so on. I think that is more of BotG. If you have the right path, of course the clues would be easier as you go, barring you have the right path. Have to be careful with his comment there. He never said the clue solves get easier as you go, just that the clues get easier as you go. Big difference. I would think most might think that solving the clues might get easier, that’s not what he said. If you need, I can supply the ATF…

    • Actually, heavy loads can have multiple meanings, backpacking is fine, and probably good Jake. It’s not my first interpretation, but could fit in a sense. Actually, I see all a little different, but for face value, at the end, it all pretty much fits. It’s just all general basic knowledge.

      • I came across the Rocky Mountain Diaper Depot.
        Talk about “where warm waters halt”, “Home of brown”, “heavy loads” and definitely “no place for the meek”. 🙂

    • poisonivey,

      I guess you read too quickly, I said, “I believe F said something on the lines that the clues get easier towards the end of the poem. (not a quote just the gist)”

      So no quoting was done for the exact words, it was (not a quote just the gist).

      Finally you agree, now I have to finish getting myself off the floor. I think I sprained my shoulder. Medic! Medic! Where are they!!

      • Yes Charlie, I know what you said. I was just making sure you had the correct info. It’s basic knowledge anyway, just depends on how you interpret…

  56. What if “wise” means “all knowing”. If that’s the case, you might have a lot of work to do before you can nail down the “blaze”.

    • This may be, EasyPeasy, but what would it mean by saying, “‘If’ you’ve been wise…,” does this mean one isn’t “all knowing”? Once was and no longer? Hmmm.

      • My question was rhetorical. Wise has as many meanings as there are blazes. And there’s a bunch. No joke. My opinion.

        • El Guapo: How many blazitos?
          Jefe: Many blazitos, El Guapo, many!
          El Guapo: Jefe, would you say I have a plethora of blazitos?
          Jefe: A what?
          El Guapo: A plethora.
          Jefe: Oh yes, El Guapo. You have a plethora.

    • Perhaps “wise” is being used more in the sense of understanding what is really going on, such as , “I’m wise to your little plan.” It doesn’t mean you are necessarily uber-smart, just that you have learned something important that everyone else has missed. You have secret knowledge.

      From that POV, he could potentially be saying, “If you’ve figured out my secret mark, and you see it staring back it you, look down.” That implies that you should have seen clues or hints to the meaning of the blaze and figured out what to look for before you reached this point in your journey. Look in the poem, look in TTOTC, look at your “good map”, and look along your journey as you travel.

      • Ray. your explanation of Wisdom in the poem is Socratic and most people would not realize that one definition of the poem word wise implies that the Blaze may will be described in the poem, remember how it is used with FOUND,,, what is a structure built on? Foundation, is it possible to see, or know or be wise to the blaze simply by something in the poem and look quickly down in said poem for the answer?

        The poem is a good map, the blaze may be the legend or the word that is KEY.


  57. Paddle also means:

    Walk with bare feet in shallow water, Dabble the feet or hands in water, An act of walking with bare feet in shallow water, Tramp about.

    Synonyms: splash about, wade, slop, squelch

  58. So down here in central Tejas we “usually” only see snow in movies and on the news. (Last year, much to my surprise, we had honest to goodness snow! ) I keep an eye on webcams in the RM just to get an idea of how it looks where I do my searching. I have to admit that I took a lot of enjoyment from watching a bunny pop out from under a tree every day and forage for food. to my dismay that camera is out now. If anyone sees him around, please let me know that he is ok. He’s brown and has long ears and lives under a pine tree north of Santa Fe.
    Thanks in advance!

      • No, Pdenver, but I have seen that one and it has been out for a bit. As well as Henry’s Lake.

        • I concur. I had thought it was my computer that wouldn’t let me view it. I’ve been using the webcams for Yellowstone. I’m just curious as to what kind of snowfall is hitting the states; prefer viewing it rather than reading about it. Had no idea there was one at Henry’s Lake.

          • If you have the weather underground ap , when you choose a weather station to view, you can scroll down and view all of the webcams in the area. Pretty neat feature! I just got into the habit of watching this rabbit hop around and got attached. Lol

          • Thank you for the suggestion, Veronica. I greatly appreciate it. I’m glad you’ve been able to watch this little critter in nature.

          • Thank you Pdenver. I work ridiculously long hours and I just liked to unwind and watch that critter scavenge around . I don’t know why, it was just interesting(. I can’t remember the name of the town, but it was a play on words)Guess it will have to wait til spring.

          • @Veronica S — I too have been watching webcams in my search area on weatherunderground. One guy, Terry Skant, has his pointed a cluster of rocks. Rocks, base of pine trees, couple of sage brushes. No rabbits. Seems kinda silly to me.

          • Hello aardvarkbark. I’ve enjoyed watching the beautiful scenery while viewing the webcams in Yellowstone. I like seeing them when I’m missing the area because I love it there. Another I’ve enjoyed over a few years is the one in Santa Fe which overlooks the plaza. I’ve enjoyed seeing the Christmas lights during the holidays and watching the people walk in the winter wonderland. I’ve seen a news crew doing a story about a huge snowman which stood taller than the tallest man that stood next to it. I’ve seen/heard musical bands, car rallies, arts and crafts displays and so much more. It really is a lot of fun watching this webcam:


          • ** ** **
            “I too have been watching webcams in my search area on weatherunderground. One guy, Terry Skant, has his pointed a cluster of rocks. Rocks, base of pine trees, couple of sage brushes. No rabbits. Seems kinda silly to me.”
            ** ** **

            out-STAN-ding, aard’bark.

            I’ll take care of the cleanup myself, but you owe me half a cup of coffee. 😉

        • Thanks ID- I check those every now and then also. Seriously, just attached to the bunny… in truth it is a webcam about 40 miles north of my area, but I ran across it and got emotionally attached.

          • That’s easy to do. I’m attached to a little brown bunny also. But mine isn’t on a webcam; she’s sitting about 8′ in front of me at the moment.

            Wave hello to the nice people, Dusty!

            She didn’t wave. She never waves. Oh, well.

          • Definitely understandable as watching wildlife is always fun. Near Garnet Ghost Town I came across a few dozen rabbits in the road. Was definitely an amazing sight and I felt bad that we scared them off when we approached.

          • Aww!hi
            I’d love to have a rabbit but I have a catahoula, a mastiff and a cranky blue heeler that might hurt it.

        • I watch Old Faithful every now and then on the parks webcam.
          I remember being out on the boardwalk late at night , being the only one out at that hour. Without the crowds , it’s really something else . I highly recommend it.

    • Definitely. Run with the rabbit and hunt with the hounds. Words of wisdom. I had to look that word up … rabbbit. And once again I thought I knew what it was. I didn’t. But I know what a rabbit hole is. I now consider myself an expert at falling into and getting out of them.

  59. More questions than answers. If a searcher would not know they had the correct WWWH, until they found the chest. What information would the word that is key, give us?

    • In my opinion, I don’t know that there is a best answer for that UNTIL the solution method is understood. The man communicates in patterns, presumably the same patterns used to solve the poem.

        • And just like he mentioned in TTOTC, the Rosetta Stone for the search, once found and understood, should help clear all of it up. So perhaps that’s the key you (and everyone) are seeking.

    • This is a good question, James. He had mentioned confidence, but how is this possible? Keep going back to WWWH?

      • pdenver….

        Confidence? When you realize that the possibility of the clues leading to a specific area by random or biased thinking is approximately 1:233,000,000.

        I’m sorry to disagree with Mr. F. It doesn’t get easier, you only learn to suspect the general area where you’re headed, and then struggle and struggle, and struggle some more, to figure out with confidence you have solved each clue. I would never have suspected which words were really clues! Clue number eight is nearly impossible to crack. IMO Really it is an amazing story…IMO No matter how the finale concludes, I now believe in demons, angels and divine guidance….

        Back to radio silence….


      • Hi pdenver, Mr. Fenn also said that a little imagination is needed. IMO there is no such thing as a little imagination. IMO, Imagination is a full blown event, That can create something entirely new, or scare a person to death. I think imagination plays a bigger part than were giving it credit for.

        • James Perotti,

          Here is the precise quote, “All that will be needed are the clues, some resolve, a little imagination, and maybe a six-pack to help celebrate the thrill of a breathtaking discovery.” Douglas Preston. it’s on the dust cover of TTOTC. Not F said. But, I don’t recall those words anywhere else, this is something that popped into my mind.

          Is this what you were referring to?

        • Hello James. I do believe there are certain degrees of imagination which could be considered. If one thinks of a recipe and wants to add a little something to it, will it be enough, or do we need to add a little more to make it just right?

      • The dictionary tells me that one meaning of confidence is “an entrusted secret”. A confidence. Entrusted to a confidant. The object of the verb “to confide”.

        IMO, “go with confidence” = “go with the secret in hand”

        In other words, the person who finds Indulgence will do it by figuring out the secret of *how* to understand the clues. But they may not *know* for certain they have learned how to read the clues until they see the chest. (You don’t necessarily have to *know* you have the secret, but you can’t find the chest without it. And the chest is proof that you did indeed “go with confidence”, whether you knew that at WWWH or not.)

        From that perspective, TTOTC is like a crash course in “map” reading and orienteering, and using the poem to find the chest is the final exam. You don’t know if you’ve learned all the material until you pass the final exam. But at least you can retake the test as many times as you want.

        Side note: In the process of learning about confidence, I discovered that a confidante (with a terminal e) is an odd type of sofa. Who knew? Whether I find Indulgence or not, I have certainly learned a lot of things along my journey. 🙂

        • Very interesting post Ray. I agree about confidence – One must have the “secret” in hand when they go if they expect ti find Indulgence.

          “an odd type of sofa” – Who knew? Is this a hint Ray? – Just joking 🙂 Think I will go take a nap on my confidante –

          P.S. – I will keep all that you say in confidence – 🙂 JDA

        • This is interesting, Ray Henry. I’ll need to think about this and see if this is how Mr. Fenn meant it.

    • All the information that one would need before opening the door. At times those tumblers or teeth may be fenicky. I remember the first time I gave my daughter, Mackenna, my key ring to open the front door. She was a happy one until she realized the craftsman was a master at security. Not only did she have to find the right key but she also had to learn how to use it. I felt like Cary Grant in the movie Mackenzies Gold. It was cold, clammy and dark outside but in the end patience out weighed the wait and she was victorious. It was a mile stone moment for a seven year old at the time. Once inside we slid down all comfy into the sofa, I gave her a peck on the cheek and congratulated her. Her perseverance and focus were the deciding factors not the span in time it took to discover the right key. That discovery was a highlight moment for both of us and it always will be.

    • JP,
      Here’s a little exercise that I ran. Doesn’t mean jack, nothing does until I’m 42lbs heavier.

      “I dreamed the other night that I had been reincarnated as Captain Kidd, and went to Gardiner’s Island looking for the treasure.”

      Sure, we’ve all read that. But watch:
      Gardiner’s Island
      Gardiner is Island
      Gardiner is Key
      Gardiner is Key looking for the treasure.

      I’m just messing around with some wordplay here, something we know Forrest would never, ever do. Everybody knows it’s in NM. Have a good one.

      Pleasant Dreams and Happy Hunting,

      • Gardiner’s Island is in or near New York, hardly west of Toledo. I think
        this is a rabbit hole.

        • Tall Andrew – Google Gardiner Montana, you will see a map that shows an island (two actually) in the middle of the Yellowstone river northwest of the town of Gardiner – JDA

          • JDA, per your above posting, I looked for the island(s) you mentioned. What I found looks too small to be named, and looks closer to Corwin Springs than to
            Gardiner. So my guess is that there is no “Gardiners Island” in the Rockies.

            Imagination may be useful in solving the poem, but I’m not convinced that yours is working sufficiently well for that task. But good luck to y’all anyway.

          • TA;

            You are probably correct. I just know that SOME searchers (not me) search this area, and in their minds, they MAY refer to these islands as Gardiner island. I was NOT endorsing the idea – just presenting an option to YOUR Gardiner Island.

            P.S. I think my imagination is in full throttle for MY solve and MY area – NOT in Montana but in Wyoming – JDA

        • Gardiner, MT is on the northern edge of YNP. But, before Captain Kidd went to Gardiner Island, he went to see Colonel Robert Livingston. Livingston, MT is just down the canyon on the other end of Paradise Valley. Both towns (and a couple spots between) were water stops for the Park Branch Line of the Northern Pacific Railroad back in the days of steam. The Devil’s Slide near Cinnabar Peak looks like a great way to stain your pants brown (well, more reddish). Also, the Roosevelt Arch bears some similarity to an omega, to a rainbow, or to the Arc de Triomphe, for those pursuing those lines of reasoning.

          At one point, I had a number of partial solves in that area, but I no longer think Captain Kidd’s ship is the correct approach to the poem; just a way to catch red herring. Besides, as has been mentioned by others, that stretch of Montana has been pretty well searched.

          But you never know. Maybe the people in the 500′ and 200′ clubs were all searching there and just walked right past it.

      • Hi DZ,
        Not everybody knows it’s in NM. You’re just another searcher who thinks that it’s in NM. I’m not searching in that state, definitely.
        — MK

        • You guys are right. Definitely nothing to see on the Yellowstone past Gardiner. No canyon down, no put-in, no no place for the meek (no no. Ha!), no creek, no nothing…Played out. Cashed, as the kids say. Best to just move along.
          ps-But just as a laugh, name the longest river in the lower 48 “not related to any dam”. Go ahead-say it out loud.

  60. I wonder why Mr. Fenn would say the clues get easier as you progress. I find the opposite to be the case. Unless of course there are several sites that fit the mould. And statistically at this point, that would be difficult to believe. Diffiicult, but not impossible … I guess.

      • Easy:
        Just curious, you think clues are getting harder as you go. That would make me wonder. You must know we’re WWWH is in order to conclude your statement. Otherwise how would you know it gets harder, maybe the missing link you need. Maybe it does get easier if you know where to start and that solve is correct.
        Just my own perception on what I read.
        Who really knows, except the man himself.
        Confused I guess!!!
        Grasshopper ✔️

    • Perhaps you learn as you go and in the end you realize that it all really wasn’t so long ago that we all took our first few difficult steps, EasyPeasy.

    • ** ** **
      EasyPeasy wondered “. . . why would Mr. Fenn say the clues get easier as you progress.”
      ** ** **

      He’s on the inside of the tent looking out – he can’t *really* know what it’s like to be on the outside trying to look in.

      Consider two games most are familiar with.

      Charades – you know the answer *and* you’re trying as hard as you can to communicate it to your team. Yet sometimes what you think is a great clue or hint that’ll nail the round, they just can’t figure out no matter how hard you jump around waving your arms.

      20 Questions – ff knows the answer, but he’s provided nine questions already, he’s stingy with feedback, and ambivalent about helping you figure it out beyond that. So the interaction goes more like

      Q – “Were you known for your achievements in visual arts?”

      A – “I’ve thought about your question for a few minutes, and decided that a yes-or-no answer would give too much away, so I’ll decline to answer it. You have ten questions left.”

      • Charades and 20 questions… a more accurate representation I have yet to hear! Spot on, right there.

      • J A Kraven – Speaking of games, I’ve noticed on tarryscant.com that the majority of the time when Forrest talks about encouraging people to get outside, he specifically says to “get out of the game room” rather than “get out of the house” or “get outdoors”.

        He’ll use those other phrases in a conversation when the person interviewing him starts using them, but when it first comes from Forrest he almost always seems to like to specifically say “get out of the game room and away from the texting machines”.

        Not sure if there’s any special significance to that choice of words, but I at least found it interesting.

    • Hi Easy, We could be looking at tens of thousands of sites, “that fit the mold”. Not knowing we had the correct WWWH, until after the chest is found, suggests that the remaining eight clues, must be pretty flexible. IMO

      • Hi James. I believe that this premise that… the first clue can’t be known for sure until the treasure is found… is born out of a Chicken Little, the sky is falling tale.
        The original question was asked by a French reporter in an email to Fenn(Forrest gets mail 9). *Do expect that people will somehow *know* for sure once they have found the first clue?*
        Forrest’s answer is very straight forward and I believe needs to be understood correctly in the context it was given so that it does not conflict with other comments about *confidence* etc.
        “No, many people have found the first clue but they didn’t know it. Until someone finds the treasure they will not know that they have discovered the first clue.”
        To think that all of the MANY Fenn comments about learning, discovering, deciphering, finding the first clue, as a place to begin the actual search, can’t be known until *after* finding the treasure makes absolutely zero sense on so many levels. I think the folks that found the first clue and didn’t know…will not know until *someone* else finds the treasure and discloses where. Forrest has used this answering tactic many times over the years… and alludes to this openly in his explanation of answering Q’s from the Middle school kids…answered as asked.

        • Ken. If I was a betting man I would bet against what ff said in the context that you would not know you got the first clues correct until you found the chest. Now that’s based on Presuming he means physically possessing the chest. Not actually finding it and recovering it.
          It is possible to find or locate something without actually seeing It or possessing it. Just another twist on this word game.

          • My Apologies
            I meant to say Finding it without recovering it yet. I hope this clarifies my statement.

        • Hi Ken,
          If you’re lucky and found the treasure, are you going to disclose your solve and the exact hiding spot to the search community? I don’t think so. If I were you I won’t disclose the location nor my solve, because your solve will definitely expose the location as well in the end. Don’t you think?
          — MK

          • Majin
            I’m a little confused about your thought. Sounds like you are saying that Ken is or would disclose his solve but I don’t really read that. I took it as just an opinion on what FF said about those searchers. After reading his post I may have taken it wrong for my comments as well. Sorry if it gives off the wrong thought.
            I do think it’s a hard spot to handle for any searcher.

          • Hi Grasshopper,
            I think I misinterpreted his words. I thought that Ken or somebody else would discloses where after reading his words, “… will not know until *someone* else finds the treasure and discloses where.” Thanks for pointing that out to me.
            — MK

      • James –
        I think there is only one site on earth that seamlessly “marries” to the poem. It will be obvious long before you find the actual treasure chest. My opinion. If this contradicts what f said so be it. I believe the poem as my first line of defense, not was f said. Hilliard Mr. Fenn. No hard feelings right? It’s nothing personal. Just my strategy.

    • In my opinion, the hardest part is learning “Fenn-think”. Once you find the correct WWWH, you are starting to get the hang of how the clues work, so the clues get easier. Practice makes perfect, and perfect wins the chest.

  61. Looking for searchers take on Artwork in TTOTC. Sometimes searchers say they see things in the pics, ant there are a couple of things I see as well that look out or the ordinary. I know there is no real answer to my questions, but I just wonder how much energy to expend on looking for secrets images or text etc. The book says there are subtle clues/hints sprinkled through out the pages. But ff himself has said, (paraphrasing) the book contains subtle clues, but they are not intentionally included, as such, so as to aid a seeker. Meaning to me, maybe provide some confirmation or direction, but really it is just a Memoir story that he liked.

    In come of the pictures I see WY repeated, I see 161 (which could be inverted as well), I see something that looks like “IN CAVE” (although ff has stated it is not in a cave). And I see one other REALLY interesting thing. Just not sure whether to give it any thought or not.

    Trying to be a poem purist. Have 3 WWWH that I really like, but every once in a while I read one and think “that is pretty clever as well”…

    • yellowdog,

      I would like to suggest more attention be on the text. Pictures (drawings) IMO would be more related to the faces in the tile in F’s bathroom. You might see things in them, but there is really nothing there.

      Just Say’n

  62. A little friendly advice for new searchers… Google Earth lies to you! Rugged mountains look nice and flat on your computer screen. In reality, all of the mountains are more like Mount Crumpit! So stay safe, and if you see the Grinch and Max, tell them Hi.

  63. Those who just can’t understand how a searcher could possibly be within 200 feet of the chest without finding it clearly have Not been within 200ft and most likely have not even been within 200 miles.

    • You know that 200 feet thing is old news. I think at this point in time the 200 foot barrier has been substantially pierced. But that’s just my opinion. And what do I know?

      • At this point how many aspects of the chase are not old news?
        My comment is in response to the surge of “200ft” videos on YouTube.
        I agree that the 200 foot barrier has been breached.

        • Hi randawg,
          IMO the 200′ barrier has been breached from the beginning of the hunt. The persons who breached it just didn’t know it. I think anybody can be as close as several feet from the chest hiding location, but the fact is that they don’t have a slightest idea whether they are that close to the chest. I think most people who were there were NOT searching for the chest, but just happened to come there to enjoy the scenery as tourists or nature lovers. Remember one of Fenn’s comments, “There isn’t a human trail in very close proximity to where I hid the treasure.”
          — MK

      • EasyPeasy;

        It is my opinion that the 500′ and the 200′ information is far more important than many consider. In order for Forrest to have said that someone was within (say) 500′, the searcher had to describe or show Forrest where they were at. This means that the spot had to be DESCRIBABLE so that Forrest would not misinterpret anything.

        Let’s say that this spot is a bridge over a river, along a certain trail. THIS would be describable. This spot might be your hoB, as an example. So, once at that describable point, draw a circle that is 500′ in diameter…with the center of the circle being the bridge. If you are at the right spot, the treasure is within that 500′ circle.

        The same for the 200′ spot…. which is a DIFFERENT spot than spot #1.- Maybe your Heavy Loads spot – From Spot #2, draw a 200′ diameter circle. These two circles MAY intersect – If they do, you MAY be well on your way to finding Indulgence.

        If you can add one more spot – say your Water High spot – , and all three circles intersect, you MAY be right on it! Good Luck all – JMO – JDA

        It MAY even be

        • Hi JDA,
          Your idea is right on the money. So if you think you spot a probable chest location (or you can confidently draw an X mark on that spot) you should be able to find at least two DESCRIBABLE landmarks or geographical features, one at 200′, and another at 500′ from your X mark IMO. If you can’t do that, I think, your X mark is not the correct spot for the chest. If that’s the case, forgot your spot and you’d better move on to the next possible spot on your map.
          — MK

          • MK;

            Remember that the your describable landmark does NOT have to be exactly 200′ or 500′ – Just WITHIN those measurements – JDA

          • Hi JDA,
            You are right again. It doesn’t have to be exactly 200′ or 500′. Because Fenn did the eyballing, not measured it with a ruler or a laser light. I forgot to mention it, and thanks for pointing that out. But as I have measured on Google map the distances are pretty close to those two numbers for my solve.
            — MK

          • Could just be a photo of the search area recognizable by Fenn as within the 200’ or 500’ areas?

          • Hi Richard,
            That I don’t know for sure. But as JDA pointed out some searchers might have told Fenn exactly where they were when they mentioned about their search. I think since Fenn knows that search area fairly well, he can pinpoint the spot and he remembers all the distances between landmarks they mentioned. All he needs a picture to tell where that particular picture was taken. Don’t you think?
            — MK

          • MajinKing,

            I used a satellite map of my search area to put circles at what I believe are 500′ point and 200′ points. Using the distance scale at the bottom by changing map size to those two distances. My 500′ point is on a main trail that many have traveled not just searchers. The 200′ point(s) is at heavy loads, which I believe is the place Forrest is referring to as to someone being that close, because you come to it on the way to water high. But I also put a 200′ circle at water high just in case it was this place Forrest was referring to for his 200′ remark. Now all three circles do intersect at a point below water high. I discribed my route as a backwards question mark (?) 500′ being the period on it and half way up from the bottom is heavy loads and the end on top as water high. The bottom above the period is npuyc (creek point) as I have discuss this here with JDA before.

            This week I did have one of those moments after I seen some post here about Forrest and the small (f) he puts at the end of his statements.
            Looking at that f, as far as my search area, the bottom would be the 500′ point and the cross mark on the left part would be my heavy loads 200′ point. Now if you go to the top right end that’s water high the another 200′ point. Now back to the right side of the cross line, well this should be where those circle points cross and maybe where indulgence is hidden.

            Not sure how you or others are figuring this area(s) but for me it works out pretty good.

            Good luck,

          • Hi Bur,
            Thanks for your very detailed description of your search area. I’ve got the rough idea how your scene looks like, but without seeing the actual drawing of all the circles on the map I can’t tell exactly where the X mark is. I guess that you don’t want to expose it on purpose anyway. The only thing your map is different from mine is that my map doesn’t have “heavy loads” and “water high” features.
            — MK

          • MajinKing,

            Hey Bur again. I have a rough drawing in the “Stickman Contest” here at hOD of my search area if you care to look.
            My drawing is on page three if this doesn’t work.

            Thanks for the reply,

          • Hi Bur,
            Thanks for sharing your drawing. Before I started drawing circles on it I’ve noticed one thing. I couldn’t read the text clearly, but are you thinking that the geyser is the blaze?
            — MK

          • MajinKing,

            The drawing is not to scale for circles but a rough idea. No geyser there but a white….. that I notice from a picture I took at a much higher elevation following the creek up ( not what I should have done). I should have search around or down from the water high. The 500′ point is where the main trail and the tangent trail meet.

            Good luck,

          • MK;

            As best I can figure out – here is what the writing on the cartoon says –

            Across Bottom – “Once Upon a Special Place.”
            Left arc = Main Trail
            Arc going up = Tangent Trail
            Writing along side trail = No paddle up your creek
            Above second star = Heavy Loads
            Top of Arc = Creek goes under ground
            By sheep = Big Horn Sheep
            Above sheep = What is this? Only the artist and Forrest knows.
            Right star = Water High
            In Bubble = OK let’s see – Hid my bike – followed the creek – passed the Heavy Loads and went up to the Water High. So here I am below the blaze… Is that sage I smell?

            That is what I got – hope it helps – Others may read it differently – Good Luck – JDA

        • Concur JDA that the 200 and 500 foot announcements are instrumental in formulating a solve. I have admired your willingness to help other searchers throughout the Chase with highly reliable advice nformation. You play the role well.

          • Thanks so much EasyPeasy. I appreciate it greatly. I do try to share my ideas. Some good, some, maybe not so much – That is for the reader to decide. I will have to admit that there is certain information that I will NOT share, until (hopefully) after I (or someone else ) finds Indulgence – JDA

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