Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Seventy Seven

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Thanks…

 

dal…

714 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Seventy Seven

  1. Hello Blex. To continue your conversation from your last post, I believe “game room” may be as simply stated, but to have a little fun, could a “game room” suggest a hunter’s den or trophy room? Something prized?

    • Pdenver – If so, I think Forrest’s living room stuffed to the gills with art & artifacts could be considered pretty close to a trophy room or a hunter’s den!

      • This is possible, Blex. Along this line of thinking, I also thought of something preserved. The comment about the Denver Museum of Nature and Science comes to mind, along with other things behind glass.

  2. My – MY – How time flies when you are having fun. Another new Odds & Ends – 🙂 – JDA

    • JDA,

      Yes, you are right on my stickman drawing. Thanks for helping MajinKing, since it did look blurry to me too.

      Good luck and have a good weekend.
      Bur

      • PHEW! I was afraid that I might have gotten something wrong. The “thing” at the top – That only the artist (YOU???) and Forrest know what it is – – – wonder what it is, but I am going to guess that you are not telling.- also, sure would like to know what the “Rocket-ship” thing above the question mark is??? – Lots to question in your cartoon Bur – JDA

          • JDA,

            No I don’t think he rode a bike, but he could if he really wanted to. Of course he would have to push it near the end. That’s why I hid it before heavy loads because the trail does raise in elevation making it hard to ride for a older person, but again it can be pushed to water high if needing to.

            Sorry JDA I can’t say what that is that the artist and Fenn would know, especially if this is the area where indulgence is hidden. You would say that makes sense if you knew though.

            The rocket ship is my bad drawing of might be the blaze location.

            Good luck,
            Bur

          • Thanks Bur. I appreciate your response. Have a GREAT day – Just wondering, when do you think it will be safe to make your first search this year? – JDA

        • Hi JDA,
          You helped me a lot. Thanks. Anyway it looks like that the area Bur is interested is not the same area as mine,
          — MK

    • the snow melt is going to be wicked this year, in the creeks So wait a week or two
      before you jump in this spring the treasure will wait your life is more important be safe
      Colorado has us buried in a snow blanket these plains are just as brutal as the
      Rocky mountains. good day to all you reverse thinkers.

  3. Well, the weather menu for the next four days on the northern Colorado Front Range is “Frozen Cabin Fever Deluxe”.

    So for fun, here’s a ff quote that hasn’t been discussed for awhile. I submit that this has to be the funniest fish story ff ever tried to slip past the crowd at the bar.

    ** ** ** **
    (in response to his own question – “Which direction do ants circle when climbing a tree in the southern hemisphere, and why?”):

    FF – “It’s Coriolis force. Coriolos force is the force that is equal and opposite to the rotation of the earth. That’s why it’s easier for you to turn left at the corner in your car than it is to turn right. That’s why people in London drive on the left side of the street, in New York they drive on the right side of the street.” ff

    (to which the interviewer, Lorene Mills, could only reply):

    LM – “Well, you are a veritable font of wisdom and mystery . . . ”

    ** ** **

    The three Lorene Mills interviews, by the way, are well worth watching (or re-watching – the quote above is from the 2013).

    From 2011, 2012, and 2013, they show the evolution of his interview style and content over three key years. The Chase gets a little more coverage in each, and all of them have some interesting stories a little more varied than the slight variations on his standard *Chase Stump Speech* talking points that dominate interviews from 2013 on.

    Enjoy!
    (and stay warm)

    jaK3

    • [sorry – enter ‘Lorene Mills’ at tarryscant.com, and it’ll pull up the three transcripts, each with a link to the televised interview itself.]

    • J.A.
      you sound like my kind of searcher. i find a lot of value in his supplemental interviews. I’m starting to feel like not only is every word in the prom important but just about every word the the man utters is a valid clue.
      hows life in northern colorado? is that your home state, its certainly one that has attracted my interest as a potential chest location.

    • That’s a good one, J A Kraven! I’m planning to hunker down for the snow this weekend too. Hopefully this is the last hurrah of Winter and the Spring thaw can get rolling forward soon!

      One good Forrest quote deserves another! Here’s one that I stumbled across recently that caught my eye: “Suddenly her eyes looked like two Texas road maps in the rainy season.” (from a short story Forrest wrote on the MW site).

      I guess that means her eyes were bloodshot and full of tears? Are the interstates on Texas road maps always red? Anyways, I enjoyed Forrest’s descriptive language there.

    • Hello J A Kraven. It seems this quote may apply to the others he’s mentioned about circles, turns, dizzy, etc..

      • It’s a very playful “whopper” – he’s floating a line of malarkey in front of Lorene to see if she’ll take the bait.

    • Those three interviews have some very decent *tells* in them…if one weeds through the noise.

      • They’re very candid and relaxed compared to a lot of those from the subsequent “Selling of the Chase” period (more scripted, 3-radio-shows-a-week), where he hits the same nine Chase-related talking points over and over again.

        I wish he’d finish that “Closet Stories of Taos” book.

    • Hi jak3,
      I think the last sentence by Fenn is not right. Coriolis force works in the same direction on the northern hemisphere whether you’re in London or New York City. The reason Londoners drive on the left side of the street (BTW they drive on the passenger side) is because England is an island, not a continent. Because of CF the toilet water goes down in the clockwise whirl. The Coriolis force in the southern hemisphere works in a different direction from the CF in the northern hemisphere because one of the forces involved changes its direction there.
      — MK

      • Please pardon my total skepticism about Coriolis force. Water going down a drain doesn’t know where on earth it is. It just goes where gravity
        sends it. Are you going to tell us that a flushing toilet on the equator has
        water not swirling at all? Good luck finding *anything* in the dark using
        both hands. All IMO, as always. Your smileage may vary, or not.

        • Here is your answer: Objects not attached to the surface of the earth (water in a sink going down a drain) will create a vortex going the opposite direction. So in the Northern hemisphere, it moves clockwise. In the Southern hemisphere, it moves counter clockwise. On the equator, water goes straight down.

          I just learned something new – YEA – JDA

        • Hi Tall Andrew,

          Maybe I learned it wrong. Thanks for pointing that out to me. Here is the copy of a Wikipedia article on Coriolis force about the bathtub and toilet drainage.

          “The Coriolis force still affects the direction of the flow of water, but only minutely. Only if the water is so still that the effective rotation rate of the Earth is faster than that of the water relative to its container, and if externally applied torques (such as might be caused by flow over an uneven bottom surface) are small enough, the Coriolis effect may indeed determine the direction of the vortex. Without such careful preparation, the Coriolis effect is likely to be much smaller than various other influences on drain direction such as any residual rotation of the water and the geometry of the container. Despite this, the idea that toilets and bathtubs drain differently in the Northern and Southern Hemispheres has been popularized by several television programs and films, including Escape Plan, Wedding Crashers, The Simpsons episode “Bart vs. Australia”, Pole to Pole, and The X-Files episode “Die Hand Die Verletzt”. Several science broadcasts and publications, including at least one college-level physics textbook, have also stated this.”

          — MK

    • Go pro or trail cam? Use the dash cam as you drive there. Go pro as you seek.JMO
      Just kidding.

  4. James;

    Can you please tell me where you found the information that says that the chest was above 7000′? I have never seen this. I would appreciate a quote with info as to when and where it was posted – Thanks in advance – I am only aware of Forrest saying that it was above 5000′ and below 10,200′ – JDA

  5. Hello James. I think it’s possible it may have been a slip of the tongue and the lowest elevation is 5000 feet. Santa Fe is at 7000 feet and it may be something that automatically comes to mind since he lives there.

    This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

    • I think I’ve posted sometime ago about this. When Fenn gave the official hint on NBC Today Show on 3/1/2013, he said “The clue is: The treasure is higher than seven … than 5,000 feet above sea level.” Whether he said this accidentally or intentionally I don’t know.

      My guess was he was going to say 5,000 but unconsciously he uttered the word “seven” since the chest is hidden actually above 7,000 feet above sea level. But then he realized, again in my thought, that he made a mistake and corrected to 5,000 as he was going to say originally. That’s all.

      — MK

  6. From MW in 2014, now archived, so I can’t find the chatter that typically follows a f answer to a question:
    ***
    When you hid your treasures, did you take the same path that is described in the poem, or were you able to skip some of the steps because of your familiarity with the area?

    Thank you Curtis

    The clues should be followed in order Curtis. There is no other way to my knowlege.f
    ***

    One who doesn’t know where the TC is must follow the clues. But can one who knows where it is take alternative paths to it, for which f could have provided clues if he wished?

    Is there a solve where one can take the canyon up and put in above the home of Brown? Or is the canyon only accessible from one end?

    I come up with some fairly reasonable solves, and read others’, where there is a more direct approach to the potential hidey spot other than the route taken that satisfies the clues in the poem.

    Should these be discounted because f has said there is no other path to the hidey spot other than the one described by the clues in the poem?

    Did he say that?

    • Hello aardvarkbark. For me, it sounds like Mr. Fenn is truly saying there isn’t any other way to get there to his knowledge.

      • I think so too. IMO there is no other way to get to the chest except the one provided by clues in the poem.
        — MK

        • Defining the location is based on the clues. But if you know where to do your small-area searching, you could take a shorter path.
          All IMO.

          • Mr. Fenn knew where he wanted to place the treasure chest because it was a special place for him. With this, I believe he knew the area well/well enough to state the way he did.

          • Hi pdenver,
            Fenn’s statement is still true, because there is no shorter path either. His another statement “There is no short cuts” is also true, because there is no short cuts to this path. There is only one path to the chest which is described by the clues in the poem, IMO.
            — MK

    • Aardvarkbark;

      I can only address my solve – or should I say solves. In reality, I have two solves – in one. I have a “Big Picture” solve that covers an area that is about 10 miles by 10 miles.. This solve takes me from WWWH to a spot that I was SURE I would find Indulgence, but didn’t.

      Solve #2 is a “Small Area Visual Solve.” This solve takes me from where I thought I would find Indulgence, on a visual tour that takes me from WWWH to HL&WH and the Blaze. I then take a short hike to where I expect to find Indulgence.

      In both solves – there is only one way in, and only one logical way out, so I agree with Forrest – You must follow the clues, and there is no other way that he knows of.

      When I say only one logical way in and out, I mean just that. In the Small Area Visual Solve, A searcher COULD go in one way, and maybe out another – or visa-versa, but the path would be much harder – So why invent a more difficult way – Makes no sense to me. Just how I see it, according to my solve(s) – JDA

      • Hi JDA,

        I think you’ll remember I commented about this path sometime ago. According to my solve, there is one and only one path either way. You can only take this path to get to the chest, and can only return with the chest through this same path. Since the return path is much harder to take (with 42 pounds of treasure on your back, “just heavy loads”) and the slope is steep (“water high”), Fenn actually warned about this in the poem with the line, “There’ll be no paddle up your creek” before JHLAWH.

        Actually the way in is not easy at all either, and Fenn also warned about this in the poem with the line, “From there it’s no place for the meek” earlier.

        All IMO as usual.
        — MK

          • Hi Jake,
            No, what I said to you before is you’re going to risk your life when you try to go there riding a snowmobile on a snow covered path in Winter. I envy Fenn’s health and desire to hide the treasure there. Walking the path with only 20 pounds at a time for Fenn wouldn’t be that hard on a Summer day. The only problem for us is that we have to return the not-so-easy path with 40 pounds on our back. Coming up the creek with heavy loads is always hard whether you’re young or old.
            — MK

        • MK;

          Glad you are younger than I am – Not sure I could make it there and back – as you describe it. I have been able to get to my area 27 times, and hope I can make it one last time when it is safe – JDA

          • Hi JDA,
            How did you know that I’m younger than you? I think I never tell anyone how old I am. Since you mentioned it, well, let me tell you……I’m almost 70 this year, and will retire in a month. With the current body condition (I’m not sick or anything, but) I think I can only make a couple trips on that path. Desk job ruins your legs as usual. Thanks anyway for your support.
            — MK

          • Hi JDA,
            You must be very strong and healthy for your age to make 27 trips already. I’m pretty sure that you can make at least several more visits to your area. Good luck with your solve, and be healthy.
            — MK

    • the way to the chest is in effect, coriolis.
      down and to the left.
      ever drawing nigh or left.
      begin at high elevation and go down.
      see treasures and tarry scant with marvel gaze.
      but go slowly and pay attention, or you will walk right past the chest.
      where heels high.

      i think.

  7. given this year.it has made me think about braving the cold,under 10200 where would that be year round.

  8. My gut tells me that the Treasure will be found in the spring of 2019.
    That , or…. my ulcer is flaring up again.

  9. JDA,

    Well it seems that none of the reply buttons are working this morning for me, must be to early here EST. Any-who, to answer your question and added a few comments.

    I plan on heading to my search area the beginning of May. It’s been a couple of years since I have been able to head back out to the Rockies.

    The trail the poems path leading to water high is not really a difficult one. As for me being a flatlander (breathing issue) and having a bad knee (motorcycle accident) it makes for a challenge, but one I enjoy taking. Age can be a factor for some but not me or you either it seems JDA, and definitely not for Forrest.

    As far as other statements about the path being only one way. Yes I would say that is what I have. One way “in” and back out, but not saying that a mountain climber could not come over the mountain and down. That’s one challenge I’m not willing to try, and why would I when there’s the easier path.

    So I’m with Veronica S and believe it will be found this spring, May is still Spring right LOL.
    Even though I’ve been in this for quite awhile I still enjoy dreaming of finding Fenn’s treasure.

    Good luck to all who are heading out this year after snowmelt, Indulgence is waiting to hear your footsteps.
    Bur

  10. @pdenver, JDA and others. Like Bur, I can’t get reply buttons to work. Thank you for your thoughts. ‘Only one practical path’ is a reasonable interpretation, but it’s the most literal, and so many of his comments seem to intentionally be not literal.

  11. Look it up … More Cowbell I mean. It’s skit from SNL. I couldn’t stop laughing. Yes TTOTC needs More Cowbell.

  12. Good Morning Bur;

    I too, Like everyone can’t seem to get the reply button to work. So it looks like May for your area. I HOPE to get an earlier start, but Mother Nature reigns supreme – we shall see.

    You sound pretty hail and hearty. I try to be, but time and age does catch-up quickly. I take a folding chair with me – walk a bit, sit a bit. Walk a bit, sit a bit. Takes longer, but I get there to see all of the beautiful sights.

    Take care, and let’s hope for warm spring – JDA

  13. Looks like Dal forgot to turn on the individual “reply” buttons this morning, or he doesn’t want any more of our replies to the individual searchers on his site. Darn!

    Anyway, JDA,
    I’m sorry to hear that you have a heart problem. I don’t know the details of that, but at your age you should be extra careful so that certain activities won’t aggravate your heart unnecessarily. Stay healthy first, and then worry about the stay safe during the chase.

    — MK

  14. Hello JDA. I enjoyed rereading your post and, one more, it was moving.

    TTOTC, page 103:

    “So now, at last, at least for me I know. And if no one should ever think of me when I passed this vale, it will be of no consequence, for I have finally found my way and am a peace with all of it.”

  15. Corrections:

    “…once more,…”
    “…for I have finally found my way and am at peace with all of it.”

  16. Thanks pd – every now and again, I like going back and reading it myself – JDA

  17. Currently watching a program about wildlife in Vietnam, and one being the Gibbons. It makes me wonder if Mr. Fenn had heard them in the jungle.

  18. aardvarkbark, regarding your question upthread about one way in/out. also relevant to pdenver’s wonder about the sounds of gibbons in the jungle. (probably mentioned by someone else before, but seems relevant here.)

    “The answers I already know…”

    what if something about being physically AT an early location helps you find something that confirms a later location. something you MAY get from reading about a spot (and assuming many/most of these spots won’t have lengthy descriptions published) but you won’t see on a map. something that would be apparent if you were there in person. so if you skip EVER going to your warm waters halt in person, you might miss some sight, smell, sound, etc at the -end- that would be obvious to another who had been to each hint/clue location before.

    by that logic, you could have been botg at a location in the past and wouldn’t have to go there each time you search, but the experience of having been to each place would be important to the final solution.

    this also works if you think “the answers you already know” implies you are supposed to go back through previous hints. maybe a switchback or path through a higher or lower elevation- with a slightly different view of those locations to change your perspective of them. the perspective shift could be helpful or even necessary. could help explain why the closest searchers have so few clues and don’t know to look.

    safe searching everyone,

    -even

  19. As you figure out the clues and approach the end of the treasure hunt, don’t be surprised if f sends you one last curve ball, courtesy of Dizzy Dean. One last prank I’m guessin. ⚾️

  20. Hello EasyPeasy. It’s strange that you posted this, but I’ll comment just the same. Moments ago while doing some chores, I was thinking about a comment Mr. Fenn had made in one of the “Forrest Gets Mail,” and I believe it had to do with the children, but don’t hold me to it. The comment about the waterfall and why people are so hung up on it. The telephone comes to mind as a prank, but when I thought of “hang,” I thought of Hanging Lake. I’ve never been to this place, but I’ve seen videos of it and it looks beautiful. My oldest daughter and I hope to make the hike together. It was planned for my 50th birthday, but things happened and I couldn’t make it. There’s changes happening on how to get there, but I don’t know of the specifics. Back to trying to figure out the poem.

  21. pdenver thanks for the link. Related to the topic, the restrictions to stay on the trails is a good idea. Then I recalled not too long ago a photo shoot was being done and they ignored the rules to stay out of the pristine lake. I believe this incident is what caused the reservation system along with the high volume of visitors some disturbing things in such a beautiful place.

    My visit there was always picture perfect views including the waterfall.

  22. John Graham – I emailed you – Did you get it? – If not, email me at SculptorJDA at aol dot com – JDA

  23. We already know f is a prankster. But it’s that laughing out loud after hiding the treasure that got my attention. Makes me wonder what in the blazes he was up to.

  24. Hanging Lake was absolutely crushed and trashed by sheer weight of visitor numbers and unregulated activity. What used to be a remarkable area to “be natural” in became a popular party pool and dog park. And is now basically a hands-off outdoor museum diorama.

    There’s no helping that. The place was just too cool, and too easy to get to.

    Crazy.

    But the outdoor recreation industry has been an economic bullet train since about 1980, and is unreal today compared to what was going on in the ’60’s and ’70’s. Dick’s and Cabela’s, Patagonia and REI, and GM and Ford have had the get-’em-off-the-couch thing well in hand for decades.

    It’s a paradox. Keeping accessible natural areas natural and at least a little wild almost calls for getting people out of their cars and back onto their couches.

    Jake

  25. Morecowbell

    “I put my pants on one leg at a time like everyone else then I make million dollar records”

  26. “ I would be doing myself a disservice and every member of this band if I didn’t play the hell out of this thing”.

    Classic stuff.

    As an aside I carry a cowbell with me to leave behind if I ever find the TC.

  27. [from way up there, MajinKing commented on ff’s Coriolis force quote]

    ** ** **
    MajinKing – “I think the last sentence by Fenn is not right. Coriolis force works in the same direction on the northern hemisphere whether you’re in London or New York City.”
    ** ** **

    It’s not really about how it works, Maji’K.

    What ff said about ants climbing trees, the Coriolis force, hemispheres, and turning a car right or left was a hunk o’ baloney on a fishhook from beginning to end, and he knew it.

    ** ** **
    MajinKing – “The reason Londoners drive on the left side of the street is because England is an island, not a continent.”
    ** ** **

    Yes! THAT’S the spirit!

    I’m gonna float that one down at the bar next week – bet I can get a good 20-30 minutes out of it, depending on who’s there. 😉

    Jake

  28. Hello Strawshadow. Thank you for sharing the link. It brought back a couple memories in regards to the Northern Lights. The first time I saw one was about thirty-seven years ago and my husband and I saw a small patch of green overhead near our home. Several years ago there was suppose to be another to be seen in northern Colorado, so we gathered a couple of our kids to see if we could see it. We pulled over into the darkness and saw a field of stars and a coyote barking in the distance, but no lights.

    Hello CharlieM. I do recall the story for which you posted and the reasons why it may have been done.

    Hello J A Kraven. I enjoyed reading your thoughts in regards to Hanging Lake. This debate reminds me of a story Dal had done a while back and he and Mr. Fenn discussed issues similar to this.

  29. Hi Bur
    You must be looking in NM if you are going out in May. I know Montana
    Still has a lot of snow in May. I was there last year in June and still had
    Snow mounds to get thru.Clint

  30. [another from up in this thread’s headwaters, from aardvarkbark]

    *** *** *** ***
    aardvarkbark posted – “From MW in 2014:

    Q – “When you hid your treasures, did you take the same path that is described in the poem, or were you able to skip some of the steps because of your familiarity with the area? Thank you – Curtis”

    A – “The clues should be followed in order Curtis. There is no other way to my knowlege.” f

    Aardvarkbark wondered – “can one who knows where it is take alternative paths to it . . . ?
    I come up with some fairly reasonable solves where there is a more direct approach to the potential hidey spot than the route taken that satisfies the clues in the poem.

    “Should these be discounted because f has said there is no other path to the hidey spot other than the one described by the clues in the poem?
    Did he say that?”
    *** *** *** ***
    [I trimmed the above a bit but think I got the gist]

    Hey-O aard’bark –

    I’ll give you another ff quote first (from MW Aug 2018):

    Q – “Dear Mr. Fenn, Once you hid the treasure, did you take the exact same route in reverse to return to your car?” Thank you. ~ Tyler Y.

    A – “Yes I did Tyler, it was *the most direct route*.” f [emphasis added]

    I think that line addresses, and maybe even answers, your question about “direct vs alternate routes.”

    Me, I think it’s very possible that *both* of ff’s answers cited above are related to his 2015 MW response –

    “What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve.” ff

    So I think the most likely location and route will be an only-one-way-in-and-out kind of place.

    Which means in practice that I discount proposals like, for example, many of those around the Gardner River and the town of Gardiner MT, because in them it’s often possible (even necessary sometimes) to drive by later clues on your way to the Warm-Waters-Halt starting point, and then have to go back the way you came to hit those later clues in order. I don’t think that’s how the route’s designed to work.

    Jake

    • Thank you JAKraven (and to the forum gods for fixing the reply button function). I am aware of the ‘same route for both trips from the car’ response by f, but much appreciate any and all reminders of his statements. But this in my mind is much different than his reply that I was citing. In his reply to Curtis, he seems to suggest there is only one path to the TC. His reply to Tyler suggests only one direct path from where he left his car, but not necessarily for the path that led him to the point where he left his car.

  31. Your welcome pdenver,
    The voice of the trickster never lies under the beautiful sound of a dancing sky.

  32. Why on earth would anyone associate spring with July? Is this your idea of reading the blogs
    for entertainment?

  33. serious question…bit of Yellowstone nature. Clark’s Nutcracker (yes, it’s a real bird) takes pine nuts, buries them in patterns of ten, and places a stone over them to mark the spot. Mr. Fenn would know this. The treasure may not be related to Yellowstone, but there is something in this knoyledge.

  34. More Cow Bell … brings Bessie to mind. And Bessie … Truman. And Truman … Hemingway. And Hemingway … Key West. What a trip. I love the Keys.

  35. I found my thrill on Blueberry Hill, and bird’s the word. Feel free to sing along….
    What do you see when you turn out the light?
    I can’t tell you but it sure feels like mine
    Ah, with a little help from my friends
    Don’t you know I’m gonna make it with my friends?

  36. it’s possible the poem has scarred me for life. easy to see parallels everywhere, yet one of them could solve the riddle. won’t try to figure the odds on that.

  37. … I know what you mean … brain damage from trying to solve the poem. Me too. Then there’s all those scrapes and bruises from falling into rabbit holes.

  38. Easypeasy: speaking of falling in rabbit holes,

    Humpty Dumpty: “When I use a word, it means what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less.”

    Alice: “The question is, whether you can make words mean different things.”

    “Begin at the beginning, and go on till you come to the end: then stop.” The King Of Hearts

    ~Alice in Wonderland

    This book parallels the chase for me on so many levels . I think we have all fallen in those rabbit holes along the way. I am very grateful to Dal for this blog so I don’t feel alone in my madness.

  39. Okay, EasyPeasy. I looked up “spring”, and learned that it can be defined in various ways,
    not all strictly calendar-based. So I won’t argue the point. Thank you for the information.

  40. MK,
    You said this:
    MajinKing
    on March 1, 2019 at 6:14 pm said:
    Hi Jake,
    No, what I said to you before is you’re going to risk your life when you try to go there riding a snowmobile on a snow covered path in Winter. I envy Fenn’s health and desire to hide the treasure there. Walking the path with only 20 pounds at a time for Fenn wouldn’t be that hard on a Summer day. The only problem for us is that we have to return the not-so-easy path with 40 pounds on our back. Coming up the creek with heavy loads is always hard whether you’re young or old.
    — MK

    This is what you said a few days earlier what I was referencing and isn’t the same thing.
    https://dalneitzel.com/2019/02/16/odds-n-ends-about-fenns-treasure-hunt-76/#comment-747040

    MajinKing
    on February 28, 2019 at 6:18 pm said:
    Hi Jake,
    I think the hiding place of the chest IS NOT accessible even with the snowmobile if that area is covered with the snow. You can view that area from a far, but you have to risk your life to get to that place, according to my solve. Remember the line “From there it’s no place for the meek.” Good luck on your snowmobile.
    — MK

    “You can view that area from a far, but you have to risk your life to get to that place, according to MY SOLVE.”

    According to your solve…
    Hmmm…
    I guess I must better interpret people’s statements and twist them backwards.

    • Yes PD,
      I would have to say another safety statement from Fenn and I don’t think you would be able to see the blaze or chest under feet of snow.
      My comment to MK was just to clarify that if you knew exactly where the treasure is, you would be able to get to it in any weather or conditions IMO.

      • Jake

        I nailed you earlier on being able to retrieving the tc in any weather. Yet you continue to say it again I’m glad you inserted IMO this time.

        • You haven’t nailed anything or anyone CharlieM except yourself.
          Big words from someone that has a rubber hammer and plastic nails. LOL…
          “If you know precisely where it is you can probably retrieve it in any weather”

          • You know, I love it how you always think I know all the answers. I’ve never claimed I did. Do you want me to NOT post my thoughts here? Careful how you answer. I see no harm with disagreement or pointing out something or even taking a friendly jab, as I did above. I guess I’ll insert a smiley face, following a jab.

            Lighten up! Geeze

          • to continue…….

            Was that F’s quote? Seems to me Muset said that over at MW and made the quote supposedly from F on 12/11/2015, I don’t recall the quote being presented anywhere else. Do you know where that quote came from before Muset’s post? If so where?

          • Was that F’s quote you ask?
            As far as I know it was.
            You could just copy and paste it with the quotes “xxx” to find out where, when, who in Google.

  41. Strawshadow
    Awesome!
    There dance my ancestors from way back. It’s a thin veil between here and there. We will all dance there someday and light the way for those to come. That dancing green light speaks to those that will listen. A couple of stories from the past to share. In the first one a thin green spot appeared in the night sky to the northeast. It slowly danced toward the southwest stretching from horizon to horizon. The center of these two points formed the head of an eagle. It looked like the eagle was hugging the earth. The eagle had its head turned to the side and down looking upon the earth checking on the people. In the second story the green light appeared in the southwest and danced all around to the west than to the north, to the east and finally to the southeast leaving an opening to the south. From there they started to dance in a spiral pattern meeting above with an opening at the top just like a teepee. At that point those colors changed from green to purple to light red. The colors flashed like that for while and disappeared. It was like lying inside a tepee and looking up and out the smoke hole. Best place to view them is up near the Yukon. On the way to Dawson.

    The Cremation of Sam McGee
    By Robert W. Service
    There are strange things done in the midnight sun
    By the men who moil for gold;
    The Arctic trails have their secret tale
    That would make your blood run cold;
    The Northern Lights have seen queer sights,
    But the queerest they ever did see
    Was that night on the marge of Lake Lebarge
    I cremated Sam McGee.

    Deja Vu @40
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNIVLdNFILo

  42. Tall Andrew –

    I’ve been working and just noticed some comments about Spring in July. The point of my comment was only that Spring is too early to search for me due to snow. Some areas still have 7 ft of snow so basically I was lamenting a late start.

  43. Clint,

    This is crazy with no reply buttons working.

    I flew in to West Yellowstone Airport when it opened (first flight in) in May at the beginning of this chase. Yes the were small snow pockets scattered everywhere but nothing that kept me form searching areas I had as my areas. Upper elavations had snow, but 6000′ – 7000′ not a issue. I know weather can change year to year that’s anywhere. My area of search now is cold in May but accessible. I had it snow days before my planned travel and it melted by time I got there.

    I’m hoping I have a all clear area this year.

    Good luck and thanks for the reply and info.
    Bur

  44. Hi Bur
    May I ask are you still looking in Montana ?My grand son and I were there in
    May 1 2017 still lots of snow in and around the park.we drove down from Belgrade Montana or should I say up to west Yellowstone ,we had a lot of fun and good memories. Going back as soon as weather permits.Clint

    • Hey Clint,

      No I’m not searching Montana. Over the years my understanding of the poem and research has taken me elsewhere. You tend to learn things with each search under your belt. I’m not a Yellowstone fan anymore, I, like many, was drawn to that area because of Forrest childhood days and manybe more searchers now since Forrest had mentioned something like he had gone there in his latter years too. I loved traveling the YNP area.
      Clint not sure if you live close to YNP but I would wait until the snow has melted if your area of searching is around there.

      Good luck to you and your grandson,
      Bur

  45. Hi Bur;

    Sure hope Dal can fix this reply” button thing soon. Hard to “Reply” to anyone.

    I am hoping that my area will be accessible earlier than May, but only time will tell. As I have said before, have been to my search area in late March – Snow above 7,000 or 8,000, but clear below that. Creeks frozen over, but since I do not have to be in any, all is well.

    Let’s keep our eyes open, and who knows what we will see – JDA

  46. So honestly, how many searchers have made the connection between “treasure” and “thesaurus”? If you’re not looking words up, you’re not finding the treasure. My opinion.

    • MW 9.05.17 —

      “You should not need to look any words up John. Good luck. f”

      I’m not sure who this ‘f’ dude is, but he/she seems to differ with your observation…..

    • I would concur that using a thesaurus is different than not understanding the word. I would take needing a dictionary as not knowing the meaning of words, however there are plenty of words in this poem that have very interesting synonyms. Hell Forrest uses brave, bold (synonym of brave) and no place for the meek which is a place for the brave. In my humble opinion, if you aren’t exploring synonyms in this exercise, then you are doing your potential solve a huge disservice.

      On the other hand beyond counting 1-10 and adios, I know zero Spanish. It sounded like EP was insinuating that there is basic Spanish we all know, perhaps I missed tone and content. Regardless of simplicity of the words, I would consider the Spanish language specialized knowledge for any English speaking searcher.

      • With that said, I think the path from treasure to thesaurus might be a bit of a stretch. But just because he doesn’t encode the word I’m the solve doesn’t change it being a decent idea in its own right.

    • My late wife was a librarian, a writer, and a word geek, so I knew about the connection between treasure and thesaurus long before I ever knew about the Chase. (I wish she were here to help; the Chase would be right up her alley!) To me, consulting a thesaurus can help in illuminating nuance in a definition, but you still need to know what your base word really means.

      Honestly, I have found a dictionary more useful than a thesaurus. There are several words in the poem that I did not understand as well as I thought I did.

      For example, I made the same mistake most people do in thinking that meek meant timid or fearful. Even my thesaurus recommended those as alternative words. So, I had multiple solves where my NPFTM was a spot that was somehow scary or intimidating, either in name or in characteristics.

      But, once I discovered that a more correct definition is “well-disciplined”, “domesticated”, or “rules-compliant”, it occurred to me that “no place for the meek” could be interpreted as saying the PIBTHOB is where you leave the established trail and go where only Forrest has gone before, since a “compliant” person will stay on the marked trail “because that’s just what people do” (even if leaving the trail is not technically illegal there) and they will never find the Chest.

      I also think this is possibly the point where you need to “find the blaze” so you can follow in Forrest’s footsteps, even though you don’t “look quickly down” until later. If you haven’t found the blaze by that point, there is no use in looking quickly down unless you like staring at your feet.

      (Once going off-trail, I tend to favor a small-area solve since orienteering is a skill that is not as common as it once was, although it is a skill I have if I need it.)

      Of course, it is important to keep Forrest’s warnings in mind that there are certain places where it is unwise to go off the established trails. So, be bold and be brave, but don’t be reckless. Reckless gets people killed.

      In the end, the meek may inherit the earth, but only the wild at heart will inherit the gold.

      • All good info, no doubt and I absolutely use a dictionary, especially google as that’s the one Forrest says he uses. That’s truly the best place to get alternative meanings. Spiritless and timid are some of the definitions from there I’ve gravitated towards. But rather than get too much into what it means to me personally, I like to speak in generalities. My comment was more intended to point out that just because Forrest says you shouldn’t need to look up any words, as in not understanding them, that doesn’t mean that understanding each ones many meanings and synonyms isn’t a valid exercise.

      • It’s been said we really don’t understand the meaning of words. Over the years I’ve been involved in the Chase and looked up words, I was surprised of how many meanings there are in just one word. It doesn’t mean I didn’t think that there were, but just some meanings I had no idea.

      • During this gale, I had proof of the truth that “Where the treasure is, there will be the heart also”.
        Some I read today.

  47. Just thought to drop a bit of a bomb today. It’s my nature I think.
    ☔️☂️
    ⛈☁️☔️
    You probably won’t recognize WWWH until you’ve been there. My opinion.

      • Many people who have been there don’t recognize it either if I understand ff’s comments correctly.

    • Concur. I think you can identify WWWH with confidence on the way “in there”, but you will not have *certainty* of it until you “see it as if for the first time” after finding Indulgence. (For me, confidence is not certainty, but certainty can be born from confidence.)

    • Hello EasyPeasy. It would seem in order to drop a bomb, one would have a target. We’ve been told WWWH is the first clue and not knowing what/where it is, we may as well stay home and play Canasta.

  48. Aardvarkbark –
    First of all could you please get a shorter name. Second your response was taken out of context. Context is paramount in the Chase. The comment f made was only applicable to Spanish. You don’t need to look up any Spanish words (they are common words we all know). Huh. The answers you already know. Ha ha. I made a joke.

      • and do please feel free to call me ‘aard’

        My best friends, heads of state and the local librarian all do….

    • EZPZ,
      The way you phrased your “answers I already know”/Spanish language comment brings to mind – in Spanish when you ask someone if they have been to a place, the literal translation of the question into English is DO YOU KNOW such and such location.

      -even

  49. Still can’t use the reply button. …
    This is for Easy Peasy in response to your “bomb” comment……
    Easy Peasy lemon squeezy!
    IMO of course..

    • It only just now started working again for me. I don’t know the mechanics of what is going on under the hood since I am not on the admin side of this site, but the fix seems to be taking longer for some people than others. Keep checking back. I’m sure it will get sorted out.

  50. I think it is key to look at TTOTC and the poem as a large series of allusions. If we consider words from the book as hints, Forrest talks about the Comanches in Ft. Worth. There are and have been Comanche populations in other states as well, including Wyoming. But why does he mention Ft. Worth Comanches? Perhaps to allude to Fort Fred Steele, where metal is cold to the touch, and your “efforts will be worth the cold”. This is the place where Nathan Meeker called for help before he lost his life to some angry Utes, and where the responders lost theirs near Milk Creek.

    A word in the poem that can be easily translated to Comanche is “no”. The translated word is “kee”, and understanding what this means seems important to solving the poem, as in “a word that is key.” One really should listen good. There are place names (Seminoe) in So Wy that sound like they allude to Creek-speaking Native Americans, the Seminole. “No paddle up your creek” may not refer to a paddle at all, but instead the people of the Seminole Nation who speak the Creek language.

    T.S. Elliot wrote a poem about finding yourself back where you started. T.C. Elliot wrote about the etymology of the word “Oregon”. Forrest wrote about nibbling on Oreos. There are maps of the Oregon Trail that include Toledo, Washington as a stop. I like the ones through Wyoming that follow the Gangplank, a “really big deal” if the word “deal” is considered a “board”. This is “almost eighty”, rather almost I-80. The Pony Express ran through here, too. As did the Union Pacific (aka “UP” when looking up words). Even the “Star routes” were found delivering mail through here, for those who like asterisks, including at least one very important footnote of Stagecoach Mary Fields.

    The word “chaise” when suggesting a “post chaise” comes from a French word for “chair” describing a “sedan” or a “litter81”. TTOTC contains postmarks, suggests tying a tail to a post, mentions covered wagons in Gypsy Magic, and (in my opinion) the word “Wyoming” can also be imagined in the grasses below the fire of the Gypsy Magic sketch. John Charles whatever also has a county named after him somewhere in here. It seems that whatever name also means “peace”, as in where one should go after taking the “chest”.

    Gypsy is a very derogatory term for a certain set of Egyptians that wander. The Red Desert is a distinctly Egyptian geographic location, unless you consider there’s also one in So Wy. Lots of graves and wagon ruts mark these trails. Also, Seminoe sounds a lot like the French word “chemineau”, which is their word for “wanderer”. Basil Cimineau LaJeunesse appears to be the origin of the “Seminoe” place names in So Wy, where “Cimineau” was likely a nickname given to him because he was a wandering trapper.

    Let’s begin with Warm Springs near Guernsey, mainly because we know about Bessie, and also Skippy. This seems to be a stop on the Oregon Trail where people liked to wash. If we marry, or “Union” Pacific (see the etymology of “June”) this with a map, where “skip” is also “spring”, I’d be curious to know where “Me” will be found, e.g., in the middle of what?

    On second thought, if “life is a game of poker”, would Atlantic City be considered a “gambol”? I wonder if Skippy would know.

    Perhaps this is why it gets easier as you go. If you like thinking about allusions and want to learn more about how to think like this, there is a good section on the allusions of “For Whom the Bell Tolls” in their wikipedia page. Ronda is also mentioned, whom I believe was one of Forrest’s penpals on MW.

    To those who say some of us hang on every word from Forrest, yes, there is a reason. He speaks in discernible patterns.

    • I am of the opinion that “heavy loads and water high” refers to Atlantic City because of the etymology of the word “Atlantic” relating to “Atlas”, which is probably where you could find a good map.

      • Atlantic City was founded by Charles Tozer, whose name refers to someone who “cards” wool. The irony continues.

      • Another possibility for “water high” is the origin of the name “Hoback”, Wyoming. From höhe bach, it means “high” “creek”. I do like Atlantic City better since “atlas” combines heavy loads with water high, and is also a reference to maps.

          • Hey Copper,
            At least he lists possabilities and as I said before, no one should criticize if they haven’t or don’t here.
            I’ll flare one up with E.C. and chat about the possibilities in person anytime.

          • Jake, then draw this in for a minute or two…

            Copper makes a joke probably not really knowing the meaning behind what he’s saying. “Ora Mae” may be another allusion for Oregon Trail (seeing the elephant, and Eric Sloane, slon is Eastern European for elephant). With Skippy holding a rock, I’m placing bets that photo is alluding to Independence Rock. Nearby Schounmaker Ditch could be Copper’s reference to Ora Mae (“schoonmaker” maans “janitor” in Dutch, the language they speak in Amsterdam, where they smoke those kinds of cigarettes). See how allusion works? Cockney does the same thing.

            Why Independence Rock? De Smet means “the smith”. Perhaps we should go to De Smet’s signature and look below it for a clue to the chest’s location.

            It’s not for the meek, though. While Fenn ponders “Why do the yellow and purple flowers flourish where no one is there to see?” Perhaps we should follow Ezra Meeker through Devil’s Gate who asked “I wonder why those wild roses grow there where nobody will see them?” Meeker comments on missing the din of the bells on his trip back through nearing the end of his life. Is it strange that one of Fenn’s bells is shaped like the foot of an elephant?

            In fact, this whole book is a worthwhile read:
            https://www.gutenberg.org/files/52652/52652-h/52652-h.htm

          • Hello E.C. Waters. I’ll try to find a specific scrapbook that reminds me of this general area and try to post coordinates, or the name of said place.

          • Hello E.C. Waters. I hope I’m not causing problems. I’m trying to share ideas, which yours were quite similar to my studies, but yours is more in depth. I’ve been enjoying your thoughts and wanted to share whether they are correct or not.

          • pdenver, no problems from my side. Please do share as that is why I am also here. 🙂

        • Hello E.C. Waters. Do you remember the mention of rattlesnakes in the book, as well as, in the scrapbooks?

    • Hello E.C. Waters. I’ve enjoyed your post. You’ve put a lot of time into your studies. Thank you for sharing.

    • E.C.
      I was not aware the Seminole Nation spoke the Creek language. I believe I read somewhere that Forrest was connected with the Creek somewhere. Reminds me about The Battle of Horseshoe Bend, something I read years back. It also brings to mind Nicolette, John Charles, Fremont, Benton and Manifest Destiny. Forrest is a generous man with the English and history as are you. Going to take awhile to digest and process. As for “life is a game of poker” I think I’ll stick to marbles less danger of losing my shirt.
      Thank you for sharing.
      Thunder

    • More hanging on every word for those who enjoy this sort of thing.

      What do the following Fenn terms have in common?
      – porcupine
      – a lasting sting
      – Einstein
      – how deep is a hole
      – bob wire
      – Satchel Paige
      – Nelika (gooseberry)

      They are all connected through the German word “Stachel”. The how deep is a hole bit and using the name Nelika are genius. Folks, think hard.

  51. Lots of good stuff E.C. No matter how hard I try my brain has to dumb it down and keep it simple.

  52. The More Cow Bell skit is forever burned into my mind. Just hearing the bell in the future will trigger me. Maybe Forrest should host SNL.

  53. There are too many allusions to keep going, as you can see from that post. But a few I like include the pony named “Silver” from the photos in TTOTC. The first pony express horse (attributed) was named “Sylph”. Further reading here will take us down more rabbit holes, including the St. Jo hotel where the first ride started, named “Patee”, meaning “foot”.

    And John Charles Fremont, where “Frémont” is likely a derivative of Fridmund, and frid meant “peace”. Could also be “frija”, like Fritos. It helps me explain why “John Charles whatever” carried around an olive jar, olive branch being an old allusion to “peace”.

    • Not to mention the photo of Lt. Col. “Morse”, whose allusion could be to the telegraph that very quickly replaced the Pony Express.

    • Hello E.C. Waters. I believe the rabbit holes we’ve discovered along the way have taught us so much. There’s so much more we’ll learn and be greater because of them.

  54. The ‘reply’ to Ray Henry @ 1:25pm doesn’t work for me… but if you see him, tell him I liked his post about ‘meek’… it works for me. I had considered ‘meek’ as an opposite to ‘bold’ which is often used to imply tall or upright, and thought ‘meek’ might mean ‘heads bowed’, like a stand of trees bent by constant winds.

  55. OS2, Ray, and E.C. No reply button available currently.

    That definition of meek works for me too, and is my modus operandi. OS2, your comment reminds me of “buried standing up”. Hmmm.

    I recently traveled the section of the Oregon Trail between Lava Hot Springs ID and the Star Valley / Salt River of WY. Currently FebruBURIED but oh what an interesting place. Using my imagination, the “saline door” could be the Lander cut off. Get it??

    Ray, my condolences. I believe she’s here in spirit.

    • Sandy, the Saline Plain is what the Great Divide Basin used to be called.

  56. Wow. I really stirred up a hornet’s nest today. Good job EasyPeasy, lemon squeezy.

  57. if I got any of this right, Dignity is the true path of life. whether you have to stuff your pockets with hankies or chew on a bitter leaf out foxing the fox is a fair trade. we are but a string on a happy yo-yo yea ha good night to all be safe always we are on your heels Titan can’t wait nor can I.

  58. MoreCowBell –
    Your pic brings to mind a movie about astronauts … All the Right Stuff! And right … Sometimes I Do Something Right. Am I wrong? No worries. It’s a rhetorical question. The answer I already know.
    Sorry but I could only find a graphic for half the rainbow. A mirror could finish it off. So could Dizzy Dean. Or Serif Billy for that matter. Just a reminder to all you TTOTC searchers … if you’re not having fun, you’re doing it wrong.

  59. For those who enjoy the little oddities on Google Earth, here’s an airborne gem I stumbled across just east of Horse Heaven: 42.716786, -106.968257

    • Hello Blex. Thank you for sharing the coordinates. Can only imagine what they’ve gone through.

  60. I agree EasyPeasy. Life is too short to not have fun. Forrest has given everyone who loves to think and dream an amazing gift. It will be bittersweet when someone finds the tc.

    That pic is Felix Baumgartner who jumped from the edge of space and landed safely with a parachute. He’s brave but not in the wood (and possibly a little crazy).

  61. Love that name Felix. He’s certainly brave no debate there but I’d even add that he looks more than just a little in the wood. Use your imagination!

    • Hello CharlieM and Grasshopper. I don’t know the reason why this is happening. It may be something Jenny will be working on to verifying her webpage/certification. I’m sure it’ll be up and running the way we knew it in no time.

      This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

      • pdenver,

        I’m happy it wasn’t just me……your probably right, maybe updates. Thanks

    • It says that Warning connection is not secure. Would not log in at this time.
      Thunder

  62. I have to go now. Thank you Dal for providing this platform and to everyone on this blog, your opinions have been very insightful, well thought out and informative.
    Best of luck to all!
    Back under my rock I go…

  63. So here’s a good question. How many searchers think they know where it’s at? This ought to be interesting. Anybody? Who thinks they can walk in and walk out with it when the time is right?

    • I do. Almost just walked away because I can’t find a partner. But this year things have changed. Sorry for the delay f.

    • EP;

      Yes, I am one of those that feel that I have solved it, and can walk right too it. I very well could be wrong, but I think not – JMO – JDA

    • E.P. I feel good. When the time is right and most of the dangers have passed, I believe I can walk right to it. If you don’t believe, why walk?

      And if its not there….I’m out.

    • “If you know precisely where it is you can probably retrieve it in any weather” -f -MW 12.2015

      Seriously. If someone knew, truly knew, where a million dollars was lying about, they wouldn’t be here posting. According to f, the time is always right.

      Full disclosure — beyond knowing where the Rocky Mountains are, I don’t have the foggiest idea of where it is nor even where to begin.

      • Aard;

        I totally disagree. I COULD get to where I think it is, but for this OLD guy, it would not be wise to try – million dollars or not. It will still be there in April or May. No one is going to get there before me – so why take a chance on a slip or fall that could break a hip or something. With a bad heart, why make emergency rescue folks endanger their lives were something to go wrong. No cell service in my search area, so a member of my team would have to go down the mountain, get help, return with help just to find my cold corpse? Just makes no sense – JMO – JDA

        • JDA, Avalanches for me……I’ve seen the fury. No sense tempting fate for a million dollars or two. What would I do with it if I were dead? I’m with you sir, it will wait.

          • ‘avalanches’?!? Where you can smell sage? f warned of mud, not cascading walls of snow.

        • I’m not advocating for risky ventures. But if I genuinely knew where $1MM was stashed, I’d easily offer $100k (10%) to trusted family members of better physical condition to go get it while I waited by the sedan. Lotsa searchers not posting here so no guarantee it’ll be there when I’d be good and ready to go myself.

          The question wasn’t ‘who is ready to do a search of an area’. It was ‘who is ready to walk in and walk out’ which I interpret to be ‘knows where it is’. Even with drones and video transmitting devices, some searching would still be possible from a base station.

          No one knows. Everyone is still searching.

          • Aard,
            I feel confident enough to walk in and walk out, just as soon as it is safe. If you don’t think there can be Avalanche danger in close proximity to sagebrush……well then it’s safe to say I don’t have to worry about beating you to the hidey spot, do I. Been in the Rockies my whole life and intend to keep living. Good luck to you where ever you look once you find some confidence.

    • I think I know where it is. In fact I am so confident, that if I find it is not where i think it is, I will cook everyone pancakes on June 7th for breakfast at Fennboree. Oh…..wait…….I volunteered to do that anyway 🙁

      • i thought fennboree is JULY 4 weekend.

        Must I show up a month early for your pancakes?

      • joe, think I will help u cook up those pancakes. and listen to everyone tell where they think the ft is hidden. so funny, just love to read all the comments. but not ready to kill myself on the mountain…Good luck..

    • EP,

      I feel I know where the tc is, that is a theory. I most certainly could walk right to it. To say one can retrieve in any weather, there is an exception, Winter, snow is too deep to retrieve the tc.

      Besides, if I were 99% certain of the tc’s location it is not worth the risk during the winter months. There are too many things that can go wrong, which out weighs the chances of things that can go wrong during the summer. I’m not going to risk anything over a theory.

      Use common sense!

      Just Say’n

    • Hello EasyPeasy. I’m not sure how many searchers feel they know. There were times I felt I knew, but I wasn’t 100% sure exactly where. I’ve learned not to be so and just keep trying to understand the poem.

    • At this time, I cannot “go with confidence”. I have a couple solves under construction that look promising though. Found a place near one potential solve that looks like it might be a good spot to stop and bite a hard biscuit. Or not, depending on preference.

      • Maybe one should take a “Hard Biscuit” break before taking the last few steps – Just to take in the scenery a bit – JDA

  64. How do you know you’re on the right track? Statistical significance! Look it up.

  65. Just had my first bout of “what if someone gets there before me” worry for the search season.

    Earlier than I would have hoped, but alas…

    • Hello FMC. I felt this way many times during the early months of being involved in the Chase. I’m learning just to have fun along the way.

    • I haven’t experienced that. I guess I figure that if all these searches, both known and unknown, in all these years have not yet found Indulgence, the odds of someone coming up with the exact solve as mine at around the same time are pretty low. Same general area, perhaps, but not the same exact spot.

      If I am not the one who finds it, the odds are good that it will not be found close to where I am looking.

      • Ray;

        My feeling is that unless you know EXACTLY what you are looking for, you could be very close, and yet walk right past it. Knowing what to look for, for me, is the key. – JDA

  66. EasyPeasy – I think that it is one thing for someone to think that they might know where the treasure is as you ask, and another thing according to how Forrest describes that the person who finds the Chest will move with absolute confidence.

    I do not think anyone, except for the man who hid the treasure, can be 100% confident of their solve even if they do seem to see all of the elements of the poem fall into place before them in their search area. Confidence easily transforms into overconfidence and that often pushes people into very unsafe conditions that they are unwilling to get out of due to stubbornness. I think that if searchers keep at least the small shadow of a doubt in their mind during their BOTG search that they might be wrong, it would not be unwise. JMO.

  67. hey easypeasy
    How does anyone KNOW they’re on the right track? You’ve asked this before. I’d like to hear your unique story; your search evolution. The “statistical significance” comes when you identify when most searchers’ KNOWING fades. So far I detect only generic feedback from you, a rookie at undercover school.
    Everything I’ve read and seen, botg, has shown the same jam at hob and blaze. WHY? What is it that’s common to all our solves; the thing that’s missing?

  68. Walk a mile in my shoes until you are covered up in blues. If your confidence level is not high then there no reason to apply boots on the ground. The wheel in the sky keeps on turning and another THAW is coming to a rocky mountain near you. The poem is so dag nab vague that it is my opinion that without intervention from the puppet master in the form of additional “hints” the Fenn Treasure will continue as a legend. Santa Anna’s gold, the Lost Dutchman’s gold, the Montezuma Cache and others still live on as legends and this maybe the fate of the Fenn Legend.

    I do think that f because he took the time to write journals of his life would like to witness the finding in his lifetime.

    It is of sadness that the source seems to be drying up like a perennial stream that rushes in the springtime but slows to a trickle and then drys up completely in the dog days of late summer.

    Some days I feel like a man stranded in a desert waste place dragging my parched body across the BARREN landscape waiting for just a drop of cool water on my tongue.

    I am afraid that if we are not thrown a bone (some hints of substance) the vultures will begin their ariel ballet.

    The above are just a few of my thoughts sitting here on my own private pity pot throne.

    Eldorado my Compadras

  69. ** ** **
    Blex reminds us – “Forrest describes that the person who finds the Chest will move with absolute confidence.”
    ** ** **

    And that particular sales line is why they call it a ‘confidence game’ (and I’m not saying the chase is a bag of rocks; only that ff is a self-confessed natural born salesman and yarn-spinner, and has the goods and stories to prove it).

    “Well sir, this particular car certainly isn’t for everybody. If you’re not confident you can handle it, you should definitely walk away right now. I’d be happy to show you some more appropriate, uh . . . conventional . . . vehicles.”

    Jake

    [still seem to be many of us without access to functioning REPLY buttons]

    • Just a short addition…Fenn never said *absolute* in connection to moving with confidence. He did say that it would not be accidental and I suppose that implies a higher level of confidence. Small point…but often times wording gets skewed. Then of course there is his comment about coining a new phrase.

      • In my opinion, confidence is not certainty. I think the person who finds the Chest will go with total confidence, but may not be certain of their path until they arrive at their destination.

        A confidence is a secret. In this case, I suggest it is an ordered list of the correct navigational instructions. If you don’t take “the confidence” with you when you go, you cannot arrive at the correct destination.

        • I agree with you 100% Ray Henry. Your last paragraph says it all:

          A confidence is a secret.

          A confidence can be a secret held “In confidence” between two people. In this case, Forrest who hid the clues in the poem, and the searcher that has been able to figure out those clues.

          In this case, I suggest it is an ordered list of the correct navigational instructions. = The deciphered clues.

          If you don’t take “the confidence” (The correctly deciphered – ordered list = the clues) with you when you go, you cannot arrive at the correct destination.

          I 100% agree with all of the above – JMO – JDA

          • con·fi·dence
            Dictionary result for confidence
            känfədəns
            noun
            the feeling or belief that one can rely on someone or something; firm trust.
            “we had every confidence in the staff”
            synonyms: trust, belief, faith, credence, conviction;

            the state of feeling certain about the truth of something.
            “it is not possible to say with confidence how much of the increase in sea levels is due to melting glaciers”

            a feeling of self-assurance arising from one’s appreciation of one’s own abilities or qualities.

            I do not see where it says confidence is a secret.
            It must be a well kept secret.

          • Hello Jake. Thank you for the definitions. Which do you believe Mr. Fenn meant in his statement?

          • Jake,

            If you Google “define confidence” (without the quotes), the very first thing that pops up is a dictionary entry for the word. If you click the “arrow” to expand the info box, one of the definitions for the noun form says:

            “a secret or private matter told to someone under a condition of trust.” The plural for this form is “confidences”. One of the listed synonyms is “secret”.

            A related verb form is “to confide”.

            I think JDA and I are on the same page of thinking here, that (IMO) Forrest entrusted his “secret where” to the poem. Poetic use of language provided the “condition of trust”. (i.e. The poem will not speak to “just anyone”.)

            If you understand the poem correctly and marry it to a place on a map, it will reveal its secret (“the confidence”) to you. Take that with you when you go BOTG and you are “going with confidence”. (Again IMO)

            It’s like being a member of an exclusive private club, and understanding the poem qualifies you to know “the secret handshake”.

          • Ray,
            I think this is part of the statement in question:
            “The person who finds the treasure will have studied the poem over and over, and thought, and analyzed and moved with confidence. ”

            #1 He did not state “confidences” (plural).
            #2 If you swap out “confidence” for “secret” this is what you get: “moved with secret” doesn’t sound right and should be “moved IN secret” but he didn’t say that either.

            The first 3 definitions work best for the context of his statement where it doesn’t sound or feel clunky or doesn’t seem to fit.
            I am highly confident in my comment and as you can see it’s not a secret being posted here.

            You have to find the chest to be a member of this exclusive private club so there are no members as of yet although many think they are because of their overconfidence which is an illusion created by the searcher.

            “understanding the poem qualifies you to know “the secret handshake”.
            I have not seen this by anyone yet so “the secret handshake” doesn’t exist for me or anyone that doesn’t have the chest to prove what you said and is also another assumption IMO.
            The word “confidence” is not in the poem.

            As far as I’m concerned, that statement by Fenn is a bunch of BS considering all the searchers that have come and gone and boasted how confident they were knowing where the chest is but all came up empty.
            His statement has not held true not even .0000000001 percent.

          • “As far as I’m concerned, that statement by Fenn is a bunch of BS considering all the searchers that have come and gone and boasted how confident they were knowing where the chest is but all came up empty.
            His statement has not held true not even .0000000001 percent.”

            Mr. Jake F be careful. That could change any day. “ALL” the searchers have not yet searched……

          • Jake;

            You are correct – None have YET proved the word “Confidence” – The key word is YET. Whether by me, by you, or by whom, I am Confident that someone IS getting closer, and may soon approach Indulgence with Confidence, and awake her from her slumber as his/her boots approach – JMHO – JDA

          • Joe,
            You let me know when it changes.

            JDA,
            You were one of the boasters for just about every trip with overconfidence going back to early 2016. You were very confident before just about every trip. I’m am confident enough to book a trip or 2 but all in all we have are theories that have to be checked.

            What do you think he saw at 200′ away?

  70. I hope the tc is discovered sooner than later so ff can return to his special place. He has given enough info (vague as it may be) to find the tc imo.

    • Why do you think f would not return to his special spot even if TC were not found?

      • Hasn’t Forrest stated that physically he can no longer go there?

        #2 – I would guess that Forrest’s every move is monitored by “someone”, and that it would be dangerous for him to return to “The Spot” – without giving this info to the world. He MAY want it found – but doubt that he wants to “Give away it’s location” by returning there – JMO – JDA

        • Agreed. Visiting the hiding spot now, whatever the reason, would basically give away the game if he were followed. May as well put up a gigantic neon sign saying “Here is my treasure! Come get it!”

          And if he was not going there specifically to “lay down his bones”, such as if he decided to retrieve the chest and terminate the Chase, his journey back home could be very risky if he were followed by a dangerous money-motivated wackadoodle, of which there are many in the world, unfortunately.

          Forrest is a bold man, but it seems unlikely that he would visit that spot again for any reason unless the Chest had already been claimed by someone.

          As for being physically able to go back, I don’t know him well enough to speak to his capabilities. Even if I did, it wouldn’t be my place to comment on that.

          • Hi Ray;

            Here is Forrest’s answer to that question:

            Featured Question with Forrest Fenn: The Treasure Chest Remains Hidden
            by Jenny Kile · October 30, 2017

            The Hidden Treasure Chest
            Mr Fenn,
            People are saying you went and retrieved the treasure and there is even a video on U-tube that says that. If you did, I think you should tell everyone. Wondering, Janice

            Thanks for the question Janice. I receive a dozen emails each day that tell me I retrieved the treasure. It is not true, and I will never go back and get it. If someone finds it I will make an announcement on the blog. f

            Forrest seems pretty clear on the subject – JDA

          • JDA,

            Well, there you go. Forrest’s own words on the subject. That’s good enough for me.

    • Ah ho.
      The man has been more then generous. Me I have to move with the wheel in the sky.
      Move with the universe and chart my own course. I understand where you’re coming from.
      When you give your children good advice sometimes they don’t realize it until much later.
      My father once gave me his eagle wing and told me “Son there are things far more important than money”. I did not understand as I accepted the gift but I try to live up to his wise advice today. I once had a dream and if it’s meant to be so be it.

      Mitakuye Oyasin

      Red Road by David Swallow, Jr.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EZHAOD6tPs&index=22&list=RDlUM9jZ9Hj-A

    • Morecowbell, I hope to help u out with that “discovered sooner” thing. And I agree he has given more than enough info. Why do u have Felix’s picture as avatar? I once had an email exchange with one of his colleagues after his fall.

      • Joe – I like the imagery of the picture. Pretty dang cool. I can’t image standing 25 miles above the earth and jumping lol. I don’t like being on top of a 6 ft ladder.

        I actually do think it will be found this year since what ff said last year about his gut feeling. I can’t image someone not being pretty close given that statement. The question is who is it or who are they?

        I see confidence is riding high in some circles but that’s par for the course this time of year.

        • Well Joe after thinking about it I thought it was time for a change. The old avatar didn’t help me so maybe this one will.

          • It wasn’t pdenver. I was joking about my excuse for changing. Just a little virtual thumb twiddling.

  71. Guys –
    Heck, I’ve been tossing out clues forever. Follow the trail back in time. But I have been reasonably careful about what I say, not wanting to give away that which I paid dearly for. Good luck. BTW, I am the vulture. You know, in case you were wondering.

    • EP;

      You have been tossing out what you believe are clues or hints. Since you have not found Indulgence – your opinion is as good, or as bad as anyone’s opinion.

      I too am careful about what I post, but I will NEVER say that what I post is a clue. There are only nine CLUES, and the reside in the poem.

      Vultures pick the bones of the dead, but that is a useful purpose. I hope that you are serving a useful purpose, but my bones are NOT available for Pickin’ 🙂 haha JDA

    • Speaking of vultures – Many years ago I saw a funny cartoon. It showed two vultures sitting on a tree limb. One says to the other – “Patience my a$$ – Let’s go kill something!” – I thought it cute anyway, but I have a weird sense of humor some times – 🙂 JDA

  72. Another thing. The clues that f has provided should be good enough to get anyone to the first tee. If you are more resourceful you should make it to eighteen. Hit away.

  73. All sounds so true. But I think ff legend will find a way to continue into history and no good story shall be without a good ending. For all endings are just beginnings in one way or another. Maybe ff has given so many clues that they overwhelmelm us to the point of going nuts. And who really knows what he’s talking about.
    So I wouldn’t stay on the pitty pot to long it stinks there and I’d rather be back in the saddle again.
    As far as confidence goes, without that you would never put BOG. So I don’t think that’s anything to ponder over. Just stay that way. That’s my no nothing opinions
    Until later.

    • Grasshopper, I think about this if I find the chest – what I will do with regard to thanking Mr. Fenn and keeping the ‘goodness’ of the whole story going. I have a plan but who knows what the future holds.

  74. Here is my understanding about the confidence level of the solve and the chance (or the probability) of finding the chest as a result. This ASSUMES that there are only three locations and a path from HOB to the Blaze to identify, and a few actions to take in order to find the chest.

    1. If you are not sure about the location of WWWH, your chance of getting CLOSE to the chest is zero. You have no confidence at all to be on your BOTG. You better start playing canasta at home. You can definitely throw out your boots. If you paid some money to buy your boots, then change your purpose of the chase to explore the nature and just go out wherever you want on your BOTG and enjoy the nature and scenery instead.

    2. If you think you’ve nailed down the location of WWWH but not sure whether you’ve identified the remaining 2 locations, your chance of getting CLOSE to the chest is almost zero. You better keep playing canasta at home. Your confidence level is nil.

    3. If you nailed down the location of WWWH and stuck at the home of Brown and/or the Blaze, your chance of getting CLOSE to the chest is about 50%. Spend most of your time trying to identify the other 2 locations before the snows are gone completely. Your confidence level is about a quarter.

    4. If you nailed down the locations of WWWH and the HOB and stuck at finding the Blaze, your chance of getting CLOSE to the chest is 75%. IMO your confidence level is almost half. Put more of your effort to identify the Blaze. In order to do that you have to identify the path from HOB to the Blaze, which is given in the third stanza of the poem.

    5. If you nailed down the locations of all three, your chance of getting CLOSE to the chest is 95%. It means that you still have to find out what you have to do at the Blaze. You need that to get CLOSER to the chest. Your confidence level at this point is more than three quarters. You can be on your BOTG to get to the Blaze and find out the last step there.

    6. If you nailed down all three locations and solved the last clue (after the Blaze) to spot the chest and be RIGHT ON it, you have a 100% chance of being the owner of the chest. Your confidence level is now full, I mean the probability of getting your hands on the chest and opening it is 100%. NOW you can be on your BOTG to claim the prize.

    I think I’m somewhere between steps 5 and 6, which means that I still need the last 5% effort to locate the chest at the Blaze. Good luck to all the searchers out there somewhere in the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe.

    — MK

    • Hi MK;

      Again, I have to disagree with your basic premise – that there are only three /four things to be found 1) wwwh 2) hoB and 3) Blaze 4) Indulgence.

      What about 1) canyon down 2) Put-in spot 3) No place for the meek
      4) The “END” place 5) No paddle up your creek 6) Heavy Loads 7) Water High 8) Tarry Scant 9) Marvel Gaze the “go/leave and tired/weak paradox
      10) What do you need to listen for 11) a “cold Place” 12) “in the wood”

      Sure seems to me that you are ignoring almost all of the elements in the poem and selecting only three. Does not seem prudent to me – but what do I know? Probably nada – JDA

      • Well, I happen to agree with MK 100% -except- for the remaining ethical dilemma. Which takes you right back to 50-50 and puts your BOTG back in front of your couch.

  75. Majinkng.
    Very well thought out and written. There is a probability that you could be right on and all else is not of use. But I have a liken to what JD has to say and I am sure that how far is very important. Very interesting concepts to look at, and I need my lunch so carry on for now.

  76. From the poem, “Your effort will be worth the cold.”

    I personally feel the *cold* may not be about water temperature, but more on the air temperature.

    When one is between the elevation of 8k ft. and 10k ft. during the summer the air is cooler, the higher one goes the colder. So what I’m thinking the treasure might not be below 8k ft. and possibly could be between 8k & 9k ft., 10k ft. might be too high. I’m sure some would disagree, it’s only a theory.

    I don’t think *cold* has anything to do with winter, as being the right time of year to retrieve the chest, while no one is around. Sure ff said in short, paraphrased, -retrieved in any weather-, I don’t think he intended winter to be included, because he warns against going during the winter for good reasons.

    Rambling on………the thought came about from the cold (Burrrr!) here in Denver, getting too old for the cold.

    Just Say’n

    • I’ve been tromping around in Colorado all my life, and I think you may be right. Even in the middle of summer, you don’t have to go very far into the Rockies before it can get pretty cold. Wear layers that you can add or remove as needed. And if you will be handling metal (like bronze, for instance) you may want gloves.

    • I’ve been at 8,000′ in summer in Montana sweating my but off at what seemed to be 80 degrees although the low humidity makes it feel cooler.
      The only thing I found consistently cold at any elevation in the Rockies is water.

      I’m thinking that “Your effort will be worth the cold.” is referring to “where warm waters halt”. In other words, you will have to get into the warm waters and take a couple steps back to find out that it is what he says it is in TFTW.

        • I’m sticking with where warm waters get cold naturally.
          How about yours?
          Or are you too paranoid to post?

          • Paranoid yep, when it comes to big $ & $ouvenirs. Not a fool. Not say’n you’re a fool.

          • CharlieM,
            You contradict yourself.
            You said:
            “at least I’ve put everything out there and botg for all to see. I’m like Zap, its the challenge, the tc is a side reward.”
            https://dalneitzel.com/2018/11/22/where-warm-waters-halt-14/#comment-723430

            You haven’t put “everything”out there. You won’t even say what WWWH is. Even JDA posted how and what his WWWH is although few give a place on a map.

            Then you say 3 months ago: ” the tc is a side reward.”
            Yesterday you say: “Paranoid yep, when it comes to big $ & $ouvenirs.”

            I don’t trust sidewinder fools.

          • Jake,

            That still stands, that is the side reward. I didn’t feel I needed to include the challenge, The Chase is a challenge is it not?

            By the way I have a different theory from what I had before. I only release info after botg, not before. Paranoid yep, don’t want to loose the challenge and when it comes to big $ & $ouvenirs as the side reward. You happy now?

          • also Jake, I don’t think kindly about your sidewinder fool comment. Your no better than anyone else here, stop acting like you are.

    • Hang in there, CharlieM. March is our snowiest month on average. Only 26 days left. 🙂

  77. ** ** **
    CharlieM – “When one is between the elevation of 8k ft. and 10k ft. during the summer the air is cooler, the higher one goes the colder. So what I’m thinking the treasure might not be below 8k ft. and possibly could be between 8k & 9k ft”
    ** ** **

    You’d deduct 1 or 2 k from those elevation brackets up in Montana – alpine terrain in those norther latitude mountains begins measurably lower than it do down here in CO.

    • There’s not much difference as far as cold goes between CO, WY & MT I’m not sure about NM. Born, raised in MT and spent considerable amount of time in WY & MT and now CO. Love those mountains.

  78. Please pardon my skepticism, and please try to relax. Y’all deserve some relaxation, IMO.

    • Hello Tall Andrew. Spring is around the corner and the searchers are gearing up in anticipation. Rereading the poem and going over their maps seems to help them during this down time.

  79. Mr. Fenn. Said if you knew precisely we’re the chest was you could probably retrieve it in any weather. Not sure what that exactly means but I found that on Tarry Scant I believe from 2014. Why he would say that I don’t know. Blizzard like conditions spook me.
    Whoever has the answer please share.
    Grasshopper

    • Grasshopper,

      I touched lightly on that subject above, I guess it comes down to being realistic.

    • My thought is that if you know *exactly* where Indulgence is, then you know what conditions you will be facing at any given time and you can prepare accordingly. It also means you will know when conditions are so bad or dangerous that it makes more sense to stay home and play a little Canasta until the weather breaks. Being bold is a good thing, but being reckless can put your life in jeopardy.

      If you have to *search* for it, though, the variables become more squidgy depending on how much your search path and your timetable vary, so it’s best to err on the side of caution. Retrieving is easier than finding.

      As a reminder, a large stretch of I-70 here in Colorado was recently shut down by avalanches. The Rocky Mountains can be *very* moody in winter, even in the places where we like to *think* we have domesticated Mother Nature.

  80. Things aren’t always as they appear to be. A big surprise. It was something missed completely. Wow. I learn something new everyday. I need a break from TTOTC. Maybe I’ll watch Heartland tonight for a change. Take my mind off of the Chase until I’m ready to get back in the saddle again. Adios amigos.

  81. Grasshopper. The part “ if you knew precisely where it is” can never be true. End of story.

  82. Hi JDA and others,

    Thanks for your comments. I’m expecting that this would happen. I think JDA listed 13 things left out by my solve. I tell you I haven’t left out any clues, especially 9 clues Fenn mentioned. No, all is included, but what I’m saying basically is that there are only 3 major locations you have to identify. Some other clues refer to the actions you have to take and some describe further about these 3 locations and the path. The following points are listed for your better understanding of my point. Numbers included in square brackets refer to the item numbers listed in JDA’s comment.

    1. If you can identify the correct location of the WWWH you will understand the general search area I’m interested in, and you know you’re already close to the chest.
    2, “Canyon down” has nothing to do with the travel (either walk or drive) from WWWH to hoB, contrary to most searchers’ interpretation of “but too far to walk” IMO. [1, 1a]
    3, If you can correctly identify the home of Brown and who or what this Brown is, you will immediately find out where the put-in point is. it will surely boost your confidence level. [2]
    4. As I mentioned if you can correctly interpret the whole third stanza, you will know the path from the put-in point below hoB to the Blaze. [3, 4]
    5. As I posted many times, there are no locations associated with “heavy loads” and “water high” that you have to find. [5, 6, & 7]
    6. If you can identify the Blaze, you will have a very big AHA moment, and immediately understand how simple the whole poem really is. [4, 8 & 9]
    7. JDA’s comments numbered [9a, 10, & 11] are just logistics involved and they have nothing to do with the actual clues to find the chest, IMO.
    8. The final act you have to perform to actually get to the chest is the line just before the last line of the poem. [12] Again this refers to the action, not the location.
    9. If you can correctly interpret the BIG picture Fenn mentioned, you will understand why he mentioned it, and why he said “there are no short cuts” additionally. This will be your second AHA moment.

    Well, I’ve explained a lot further than I was thinking originally, but again if you can’t nail down the first clue, the location of WWWH, and can’t find the other two locations, I think you will have a hard time understanding what I’m talking about. Good luck everyone.

    — MK

    • Well, MK;

      At least you have considered my missing points.

      Your #5 – 5. As I posted many times, there are no locations associated with “heavy loads” and “water high” that you have to find. [5, 6, & 7]

      I absolutely disagree. In fact these two elements are THE most critical. Without HL&WH, Indulgence can never be found – JMO

      Thanks for the response. We all see it differently. You MAY be correct, and I MAY be wrong – Time will tell who is correct – MAYBE

      Your #9 – 9. If you can correctly interpret the BIG picture Fenn mentioned, you will understand why he mentioned it, and why he said “there are no short cuts” additionally. This will be your second AHA moment..

      For me the “Big Picture IS critical, but it only takes you to the “Small Area Visual Search ” area. It is this small visual search area that will reveal Indulgence’s resting spot – JMO – JDA

      • Hi JDA,
        My interpretation of the big picture is not big at all. Fenn may have called it a big picture, but in reality it is not big at all, it only shows a very small portion of a really large area.
        — MK

        • One thought occurred to me, perhaps because I print so many reports at work. (Ugh!)

          Choose landscape mode (big picture), not portrait mode (little picture). That is, look at the landscape for the answers.

      • Hi JDA,
        Don’t forget that “HL&WH” is the continuation of the line above “There’ll be no paddle up your creek” and also don’t forget that this line is written in the future tense. I explained more than couple times that you have to interpret this line differently from other lines written in present or present perfect tense.
        — MK

      • Hi JDA,
        I forgot one more thing. When Fenn mentioned that you have to read the poem and the clues in “consecutive order”, it can mean that you must read the lines as they are written with respect to other lines, but also it means that you must read the lines in chronologically consecutive order as is shown by different tenses of the lines IMO.
        — MK

        • As I said MK – we all interpret Forrest’s words in different ways. You have your opinion, I have mine. Good Luck – JDA

        • MK,
          Your assumptions sound much more plausible without all of the confidence percentages and proclaimed odds. Pretty sure you just pulled those out of your _ _ _!
          I have to agree with JDA in that HL&WH are critical and are part of the “map” which followed as if it were a “map” would show you where you need to end up. IMO Good Luck!
          SJM

          • Thanks SanJuanMan – Nice when someone says that my thinking is not completely off in left field somewhere. – JDA

    • Been lots of searchers hare* that had AHA moment only to realize it is Another Horrible Aberration.
      I can agree with a few things but this one is lost on me:
      “5. As I posted many times, there are no locations associated with “heavy loads” and “water high” that you have to find. [5, 6, & 7]”

      I believe every clue has a physical place/location on a map.

        • I even go as far as to beleive that the 9 clues are the 9 complete sentences and that everyone is an allusion to someplace on the map that you need to find. Beyond that statement how can we really pick and choose just which phrases are the real 9 clues with any certainty. Anything else is just conjecture regardless of the emotion or ego behind the words. Forrest himself states “There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them.” in my opinion a treasure this sought after doesnt stay hidden for 9 years without a very complex, all inclusive extremely definitive solve.

          • Hi Double a,
            IMO that’s why the chest hasn’t been found. As I said before finding 3 locations is much easier than locating all 9 locations. Because only 1/3 of your effort is needed here instead. To me that’s manageable as I have done. Again I can’t prove anything until I have the chest in my hand. But when I actually find the chest, I won’t tell anybody about it. Why? I don’t have to prove anything to anybody, not even to Fenn. But I’ll be about $1M richer, after paying $1M as a tax, that’s all.
            — MK

          • Double a;

            There is one flaw in your thinking, as I see it.

            For a long time, I was in the one sentence = one clue camp – until Forrest said that the first clue is “Begin it where warm waters halt.”

            Under the one sentence = 1 clue theory – Sentence #1 = As I have gone alone in there And with my treasures bold, I can keep my secret where, and hint of riches new and old.”

            This is one complete sentence which, under your definition is a clue – the first clue, since it is the first sentence – – – but Forrest said that the first clue is “Begin it where etc.” Therefore, the one sentence = one clue theory can NOT be correct – can it?

            Forrest once said, “There are nine clues in the poem, and the clues are in consecutive order … etc.”

            If the 9 clues are in consecutive order, and the first clue begins at Stanza #2, Stanza #1 must not be a clue, and some other scheme – other than the one sentence = one clue must be adopted – Don’t you think?

            Just how I interpret two of Forrest’s quotes – JDA

          • Double a,

            Maybe you need to rethink you your 9 clues are the 9 complete sentences.

            If you listen in this interview about the 4:24 mark the interviewer talks about stanza 2 and you need to listen to Forrest reply. Research will help you more in this chase and there is so much out there.

            https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=stEQePyAiEs

            Good luck,
            Bur

      • Hi Jake,
        I see that you’re one of the searchers who try to find either “HL” and/or “WH” or both. Since JDA wrote “I absolutely disagree. In fact these two elements are THE most critical. Without HL&WH, Indulgence can never be found – JMO”, I see JDA is also one of them. But I say the opposite to you, “If you try to marry HL&WH with the physical locations on the map, you will never find the Indulgence.” IMHO.
        — MK

        • I couldnt disagree more. I think stanza 3 is leaning towards you not getting wet and your creek being more of the predicament kind, as in up a creek without a paddle. Put me down in the camp that believes identifying what and where heavy loads and water high are and located,as paramount to determining just what that predicament is.

        • So mk,
          I would never say your theory or any other is wrong, I’m just getting in on the though flow.

          On another note, good luck liquidating the majority of items into that chest without whomever you selling those one of a kind items, not knowing where they belong.

          And what’s acmillion when you could sell the whole thing to a collector for more im sure, what about picture rights, story rights, movie rights. This is an historical event and the person who finds it should not only embrace that but be prepared for the moment when,for better or worse, their identity is exposed and the rest of the world treats it as such an event.

          • JDA
            I hear you load and clear but I can’t help but wonder if there isn’t a little fenn trickery at play. “Begin” is the first line of stanza 2 yet “as” is clearly the beginning. I tend to feel that the first stanza is a general sketch of what you are supposed to be doing, with hints and allusions that help on your way.

            Forrest has a few quotes on this.

            “ start at the beginning “

            As opposed to begin

            You’ll never find it that way. You need to start at the beginning. You need to figure out where warm waters halt.

            Dear Forrest, which is the first clue; the first line or the line that starts with Begin it where warm waters halt? Carolyn Thanks Carolyn, you guess. f

            You cannot solve the problem by starting in the middle of the poem. You should start with the first clue and then solve the other eight in order.

        • MK
          “If you DON’T try to marry HL&WH with the physical locations on the map, you will never find the Indulgence.” IMHO.

          • Thank you very much, Jake.
            But in my armchair solve I’m already close to the chest by about less than 10 feet, and my locations are already verified by one of the covers of the books Fenn wrote.
            — MK

    • MK – What caught my attention are your points 1-4. My own primary solve involves a parallel idea. My personal solve does not require actual travel to or from WWWH but rather reverse engineering it from a HOB – then undertanding what WWWH is upstream for confirmation. My HOB leads to a named location which is close to a put-in spot which is very logical from a topographic map and recreation/history sites. Maybe we are on the same track but possibly from different viewpoints. No matter. I just want to post my opinion that the distinction between “begin it” and “put in” could be crucial to the Search. Good luck.

      • Hi McKendree,
        Looks like you’re in the same thinking camp as me, but does your solve satisfy 200′ and 500′ comment by Fenn? And how about his another comment “there are no short cuts”?
        — MK

        • MK;

          Forrest has said: “‘There have been some who have been within 500 feet because they have told me where they have been. Others have figured the first two clues and went right past the treasure and didn’t know it.’

          https://metro.co.uk/2013/03/08/forrest-fenn-and-the-raiders-of-the-stashed-gold-real-life-indiana-jones-stages-treasure-hunt-3531551/

          In SB 167: –” Last month, you indicated that still nobody has correctly solved beyond the first two clues. Is this correct? Still nobody has solved beyond the first two clues?
          FF: Very few people tell me exactly where they are searching so there is no way for me to know. Some searchers have been within 200 feet”

          So, ANY place that a searcher looks, they are going to be within 200′ or 500′ of SOMETHING, so there is no magic in these numbers MK There is no special test that needs to be mat – The same fort “One way in, and one way out.” MANY, MANY places in the RM’s will meet this test. It just so happens, I guess, that it matches your solve. Well, It matches mine as well, and I am sure we are not searching the same area.

          Confidence is great. Don’t let your “Over Confidence” lead you astray my friend – Just a bit of advice from an OLD searcher – JDA

        • Don’t know if my solve satisfies the 200′ and 500′ comments, but it might. As to “there are no short cuts” I am not sure I understand what Fenn is referring to. Isn’t this a reference to taking a more direct (straight line) route to a destination – not necessarily where you start. My solve has an alternative and shorter put-in but I wouldn’t take it because it looks like a closed and steep road. Just wondering.

  83. Yellowstone… hmmm

    What can I say, I’m a polarizing guy and on that note with this next bit you’ll probably fall in one of two categories. One being well yeah who cares about Yellowstone when the chest is in Montana, Colorado, New Mexico or the eastern edge of Wyoming or category two, someone tell this idiot to stop ruining my day.

    We love to throw Forrest quotes around on this website and act like our interpretation is the only one that matters. And with that said I’m sure that all the Y is “it” people will find a thousand reasons to dismiss this one but really catch what he’s saying here….

    “I doubt that a volcanic eruption under Yellowstone Lake would blow the treasure chest to bits, no matter the odds, but it might spread a lot of beautiful cutthroat and lake trout around the country side. F

    So first things first. The size of the Yellowstone caldera is as big as Yellowstone itself. If the chest was there it would be blown to bits. Forrest alludes to the massive size of the blast with his cutthroat and lake trout around the country side comment. So next is at first glance it would seem he could be saying it’s an unlikely event as in any given year the odds of this happening are something like 1 in 730000. But f clears this up with his no matter the odds statement. So imo, if we want to start talking about definitive statements, let’s start with the one where f clearly states that the chest is not in Yellowstone park. Because if it were in that park that unlikely eruption would send that treasure all the way to my home in the state of Maine. Forget about how he comes right out in the once upon a while and tosses his hat right over the entire map of the park, another strong indication that a large group of us might be fixated on the easy bait.

  84. That all makes sense.

    Pompeii is only six miles from the caldera of the Vesuvio caldera and whole houses were perfectly preserved under some several feet of ash. Given another fifty thousand years, those dead people hollows would have become marble statues. The archaeologists should have waited..

  85. There has been seismic activity in Colorful Colorado of late. If ff did not bury the treasure, maybe it is buried now. That is if it is in Colorful Colorado. Worth the cold….bet it’s cold up on Taos Mountain ( MT. Wheeler) at about 10k ft. any time of the year. Then again it gets cold all over the Rockies at night year round. Once while camping in Rocky Mountain National Park in July I arose to nature’s call and it was so cold I could see my breath. I dawned a sweatshirt to keep warm while doing my business. NEVER wear red in the Rockies….I was attacked by several violent hummingbirds that thought I was a self watering giant flower.

    • That would have been a sight to see. It’s best to be prepared for any weather/temperatures in the Rocky Mountains no matter what time of year.

  86. My son in law went to Yellowstone once. He said when he entered the park the ranger handed him a pamphlet that said in bold letters:

    “Yellowstone is a dangerous place”.

    That directly conflicts with f when he said:

    “It’s not in a dangerous place”.

    • Hello EasyPeasy. It’s true about the pamphlet and the warning given, but I can honestly tell you some people will not listen. At the Denver Meet-up, I was explaining to a nice couple about seeing a few people getting about twenty-five feet from a grizzly and taking selfies. I think people just need to use their heads and be aware of their surroundings and use common sense.

      This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

      • I concur. Many people these days who go out into “the wilderness” do so with absolutely no clue about the inherent risks they face. (And I am not even including the true wilderness, where there are no convenient trails or bathrooms nearby.) Even here in Colorado Springs, we occasionally see a moose wander down into town, and right away, a crowd of people forms and some yahoo gets right down in front of the critter to take a selfie … seemingly oblivious to the idea that a charging moose can have about the same effect on a person as a steam locomotive. Some wildlife is best appreciated from a safe distance away. And don’t even get me started on the people who leave their garbage all over the mountains everywhere they go. We humans really need to be better stewards of our planet than we are.

        I also agree that (IMO) YNP can be pretty much removed from consideration in light of the discussions about the caldera hypothetically erupting. If that situation would not “blow the chest to bits”, then it is unlikely to have been hidden anywhere close to the caldera. To me that radius would pretty much cover the entire park and then some. At a minimum, it would have to be far enough away to survive to be discovered by future archaeologist or geologists.

        In fact, I have excluded most of Wyoming from my search area based on various ATF comments. (Too high, too low, not in the Rockies, unreasonably risky, private property, etc.)

        • Ray

          I agree with what you said. I would even go on to say MT is out as well, because both states in the area be would destroyed for miles around YP.

        • Hello Ray Henry. This may be true, but sometimes even those who are best prepared, something can go unexpectedly wrong. I think I’ve been lucky not to see trash in the wilderness, or at least I don’t recall any. It does take only seconds to make a difference.

          I hadn’t paid much attention about the discussions for which you speak. If the Yellowstone caldera did go, the ash would hit many states. I couldn’t imagine people trying to breathe through it.

          • I don’t think the ashfall would hurt the Chest all that much, aside from burying it. (Maybe change the patina?)

            The people and animals would certainly be seriously affected, and there would be massive dieoffs. But survivors from elsewhere would someday return to the affected areas after it became safe to do so.

            My takeaway from Forrest’s comments was that it is probably not in a spot that would be affected by the explosive force of the eruption or by magma/lava (which would almost certainly melt and burn the Chest and contents). So, not in the caldera or the hypothetical eruption or magma flow zones.

        • Bob Millerhttps://www.google.com/maps/place/Ireland/@55.9376895,-19.9852365,120558m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x485e619e5d73698f:0xca9b39444d6ac68d!8m2!3d53.1423672!4d-7.6920536 on said:

          If the caldera blows, the treasure won’t matter.

  87. pdenver –
    The reply button isn’t working but ….
    Even if you had precise coordinates, GPS is only accurate within 12 feet at best. So, you can’t know precisely where it’s at even in the best of circumstances.

    • Hello EasyPeasy. Thank you for explain. This makes sense. I know Mr. Fenn had mentioned using GPS, but I wonder if one is truly needed. I don’t own one and I’ve been going out with my understanding of the poem.

      • Gosh, my mind is working quicker than my typing. It should read, “Thank you for explaining.”

  88. Remember that EFHutton commercial? When EFHutton talks people listen. I got a new one.

    “When MoreCowBell talks people listen.”

    • EP,

      I find it ironic that folks seem to think the answer to the first clue can be found in the poem. I think its easy to think that for those that aren’t willing to analyze and learn why and where wwh. IMO one won’t find the answer to where wwh in F’s books or the poem.

      Just Say’n

      • CharlieM;

        If not in the books and the poem, where are we supposed to look Charlie? How many times does Forrest have to say: “There are nine clues in the poem, and the clues are in consecutive order. If you want to find the treasure chest – you have my book there – I’ll tell you how to do it. Read the book just normally … the poem and the rest of the book, and then go back and read the poem 6, 8, 10 times – study every line, every word. Then after you do that, read the book again, slowly, with the idea of looking for clues or hints, that are in the book that will help you follow the clues. You can find the chest with just the clues, but there are hints in the book that will help you with the clues.” f

        Clear, concise directions. Read the poem, and read the book – that is all you need. End of story. – JDA

        • JDA,

          Your right to a point, but you are dismissing the the other comments that F had said, paraphrasing, think, learn, analyze to find the first clue. He never has said to link the answer to the book or in the poem. The quote you presented as a generalization more towards the poem.

          Of coarse this can always be debated, but right here and now I will stand as saying wwwh can,t be found in the poem or the books, IMHO. The poem is a map and the only way to start is to find wwwh, from there one can marry each clue to a map by listening to what the poem is saying, IMVHO

          Just Say’n

          • We, again, can agree to disagree Charlie. If you are correct, what would have happened if Forrest had died about the time he secreted Indulgence? No comments, therefore according to you, WWWH could have never been found. This, I think was NOT what Forrest intended – for Indulgence to never be found, therefore, to me, the secret of WWWH MUST lie within the poem or the book. JMHO – JDA

          • I’m with JDA on this one. The simple fact of f saying: “Emily, all the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem.”
            That pretty much says it unless you think that wwwh is not needed in finding the treasure.
            If you believe that wwwh cannot be found in the poem, and the poem is all you need, then what you are implying is that wwwh cannot be found at all.
            I would say that the answer, individually, for the first clue cannot be solved, but it could be found.
            Most maps, you read by knowing where you are going and drawing the route to get you there. If I want to go to YNP, I find Yellowstone, draw my route back to my house, and I have my route. I don’t start at my house and just guess on how to get to Yellowstone. (unless you are nowadays using Waze). But in just reading a map, I start from the end and find my route. Same thing here. You find your spot that you are going to, draw your path, where you start is your wwwh. You have to remember, there is no answer to wwwh anywhere from Fenn. Does not mean that you cannot find wwwh is.
            How do you expect to find wwwh? Remembering, all you need is the poem? You have this thing about marrying to a map. That is all outside info from the poem. He said those things will help, but, at the core, only need the poem.
            So, here is the poem, go find it. That is f’s words, there is no answer to wwwh, but here’s the poem, go find it.
            The poem is the only true thing that can reveal wwwh is. Anything else besides the book is donned outside info and would not be needed to find.
            You can’t say: “wwwh can,t be found in the poem or the books”, and then say: “find wwwh, from there one can marry each clue to a map by listening to what the poem is saying”.
            What would be the reason f says there are 9 clues, and the first is wwwh? Why not say there are 8 clues and first, you need to know where to start? That’s ridiculous.
            According to Fenn, you can put the poem, right in front of you, and find the chest. The answer to finding must be in the poem. Period…

          • JDA,

            Apparently the first clue can be solved, “I cannot tell you how many searchers have identified the first clue correctly, but certainly more than several.”f, MW 3/26/2015. You said, “therefore according to you, WWWH could have never been found”

            So answering your quote, Why in the world would I think that, knowing what I already knew above? Can you point to were I said it couldn’t be found? What I did say was, “IMO one won’t find the answer to where wwh in F’s books or the poem.” Apparently finding wwwh is not that hard and more than likely those that paid attention to the Geography class in school was something they already knew. Didn’t ff say and I paraphrase, a comprehensive understanding of geography is needed?s

            Sure I might be able to find some things in the book that might be hints such as a narrow canyon of water, waterfall, campfire, etc. But I can only recognize those relationships because those might match and be recognized in my theory. Heck those hints could fit anywhere in the RM.

            I’ve read the book TTOTC so many times and there are no answers to wwwh and I’ve turned the poem inside out and I don’t find even a hint as to what wwh might be.

            Just Say’n

          • CharlieM;

            Charlie you say:” I’ve read the book TTOTC so many times and there are no answers to wwwh and I’ve turned the poem inside out and I don’t find even a hint as to what wwh might be.”

            Can I change the wording of your quote? Maybe it should read: I’ve read the book TTOTC so many times and I HAVE FOUND NO answers to wwwh and I’ve turned the poem inside out and I don’t find even a hint as to what wwh might be.

            For me, I HAVE FOUND answers to WWWH IN THE POEM, – “in the wood.”

            And in the stories of TTOTC. Not the name of a place, but a description of what WWWH might look like. But that is me and MY imagination at work.

            So, here we are again – we can agree to disagree – Keep a’ looking CharlieM – JDA

  89. All of my comments are my opinions only. Your opinions may vary. (But if they do you’re not gonna find it.)

  90. That’s funny EasyPeasy. I had a dream last night that Forrest help me retrieve the treasure chest. Are you listening Forrest?

  91. Thanks Jenny and Dal,
    FFGM#5 located somewhere within a large gray social setting, who doesn’t love a shadow ritual.

    • Hello Strawshadow. One of these days I’m going to understand what you’re trying to say. I don’t know how many times I’ve been baffled.

  92. Strawshadow.
    Just wondering about the cat in your photo. Is that your cat or some small dog jumping the fence. Very interesting cat.
    Don’t mean to bother you. Just wondering.

  93. No bother grasshopper,
    That cool cat is a Rhodesian Ridgeback. He likes to hang out there and wait for the ladies to stroll down, quite the Cassanova. His inherited ability to size up lions and take down baboons gave him a solid reputation on the streets. The name says alot.

    • I’m sure ff dabbles on this website from time to time (imo) so my offer to him stands lol. I have a gut feeling he may make me do it the hard way.

  94. That explained the oddness in that feline critter. Thanks for the reply.
    Grasshopper.

  95. Bur
    Thank you sir for the good luck!
    I mean that wholeheartedly and I will take all the luck I can get. As I have a solve that uses the poem more than once and there is two complete sentences in that stanza, I still feel pretty good. I wouldn’t go as far as to say that statement confirms my solve but it certainly doesn’t rule out my complete sentence idea, we thought of in that context.

    Good luck to you as well!

      • 2 other amendments
        It’s down here because there was no reply option and I may have taken too much liberty when assuming bur is in reference to a male. If you are a female, my apologies, if not carry on.

        • Double a,

          No worries, I am a male and have been for quite a many years LoL.

          Everyone has different ideas about the poem and most are repeats of conversations throughout.
          In my option, and I have said this before. The poem is pretty straight forward and most clue solves can be accomplished from the comfort of your home, but there are two that you just might need botg to understand, because they cannot be seen on a map or a satellite view. The TTOTC book can help with hints to help in solving a couple of clues especially wwwh, but that clue answer is from the word that is key in the book. You will need to understand the big picture and what wwwh is (Forrest has said what it is in the beginning years) then where his wwh is (he shared it with a friend). To find the word that is key you would need to understand Forrest and something he has held dear in his life.
          Of course all I say is just food for thought.

          Again, good luck,
          Bur

  96. Hey! What ever happened to …
    “CuriousHobbit” anyway? I sense foul play. Hobbs are you out there? Did you find the treasure yet? Cause I know you had a beat on it. Hobbs?
    Anybody know where Hobbs is? Where are you bro?

    • Curious hobbit has been gone a while now… is he lurking? I don’t know, but I sure miss his hobbit ways…lol
      Nikan, if your out there, chime in and let us know that your ok… thanks EasyPeasy for asking about a missed friend….. have a great day…. until next time.. see ya

        • I heard that he ‘checked in’ to a nice quiet facility where he is not allowed internet privileges. (..or his shoelaces). 😉

          • yes…I heard tell that he is cruising the Sundering Seas in his BHB schooner sipping pear juice and searching for the Golden Paperclip.

          • Sounds like folks are checking in and out all the time. I don’t know if I’m on or off half the time. Just got my taxes ready for the accountant and it looks like I’m filing an extension, prolonging the inevitable. No refund, no treasure travel. Guess this games on hold for a while.
            Good luck to the rest.
            Grasshopper

  97. LOL EP, It’s so easy to pease someone! Hey I have a solution, or wait is it a solve? It can fit on a sticky note – yup only 4 informative directives will get you to heavy loads and water high. I jumped back in the box! As far as the blaze; lol, that’s the trail you’ve been lookin’ for! 500 feet up above! and only 1/2 mile to trek!

  98. If you have read TTOTC and TFTW, then you should be asking yourself one question. Why are the pages so hefty? There’s a reason for everything. When you can answer that question, you are on your way to finding the treasure. You’re welcome. My opinion. Here’s where I duck and hope for the best.

    • Do you have a page somewhere with the puzzle presented which we use to decipher your comments? (like the FFGM hunt pages for example….?) 🙂

    • It just strikes me as a high quality book. It makes sense that Forrest would not want to skimp on materials for a book containing treasured memories of his life. Especially since the book also contains information leading to a valuable treasure.

      Of course, I may have an inherent bias regarding books, considering I used to help design them for my wife’s business.

  99. 200′ and 500′ statement is still a little baffling.
    From what I recall, Fenn recognized something in a pic sent to his email from the 200′ footer(s).
    I think he said it was accurate or equal to that statement.
    I’ve tried to think of this type of scenario and placement of a searcher taking a pic of many things but I’m probably missing some.

    Trail sign or any signs of any kind.
    A certain spot on a stream/river/creek or waterway that is recognizable to him although the landscape changes.
    Rock formations/cliffs that need to be nearby the snapshot otherwise the 200′ is not accurate.
    A tree that has a particular look and form but although will not last long so I don’t think so.
    A trail that has specific appearance at certain locations along it and these change course as well.

    I would have to rule out any pics that are taken of mountains from afar and trees or woods seeing they all look the same to me when hiking.

    What could it be that Fenn recognized in that or those pics that he could be sure of the accuracy of where the pic was taken?
    It almost seems likely that the place is kinda near a beaten path and/or highly recognizable place and not in a grove of trees where they all look the same unless there was a unique marking on a tree but I doubt that too considering the longevity.

    ?

    • Could it just be something like: “I followed teepee creek all the way to its source and didn’t find your chest. Here are some photos I took along the creek.”
      If the treasure is 200′ off teepee creek, he knows I was 200′ away. This has been my assumption – although, it doesn’t answer your photo question very well.

      • Thanks NDKarl,
        I haven’t thought of that. It could be a combination of what was said about the area and what was seen on the pic to verify. I do like both Tepee creeks as well. Something in the pic(s) must have caught his eye as well.

      • You’ve already been there. You put your camera in the water and filmed some trout instead of finding the chest; but I presume you did look in the wood, right?

        • Taylor Falls was about 750′ upstream from that video and it was funny there was a trout there because even that far below the falls it was pretty dicey with a lot of steps for a fish to get there.

          I never saw the trout until I viewed the video days later.

          The wood was so dense we did not look in it thoroughly and the there was no discernable features within 200′ so it didn’t make sense with the 200′ statement. Both sides of the creek were thoroughly searched as I saw searchers blazing their trails and Mike was a wealth of info on how many searchers have been there in the past few years.

          You’re looking in NM now?

          • No no. I’m going back to Montana in July. Same general area.

            You are heading to where I’m coming from. Believe me, the treasure is not along the Gallatin River between Specimen Ck. and Taylor Fork.

          • I’m just going where the poem takes me and that’s up the Gallatin to one of those creeks up there.

    • GE can do the same with a mark on saved image, along with a description. You can also measure distance on GE.

      A thought.

      • Yes I know this CharlieM, I use GE to it’s max capabilities but I never underestimate how wrong it is when BOTG.
        Thought been known.

  100. how about if the photo was taken from the same place as one of the photos in ttotc.

    • That’s a possibility and the pic of Skippy holding the rock has stirred my imagination. I have looked in both books to see which pics hold a hint to where they were taken and I find it very difficult to find the precise spot in just about every pic in the search area of coarse. One of the pics I verified was in TFTW fishing on the Gallatin with his wife and Joe.

      • If somebody showed you a photo of a spot along your morning commute to work, you would probably recognize right away where it was snapped.

        The hike should be not much more than two miles and Forrest can probably recognize every yard of it, I think.

        • When I was young, my grandfather taught me how to use a fly rod, and we would spend every summer fishing along the Cache La Poudre River. There was one spot we both loved better than any other, and it is a spot I still treasure. Much like Forrest, I can still see every rock, log, tree, and sandbar as clear as day in my mind’s eye.

          Despite the fact that it is away from the highway or any marked trail, if someone were to send me an email describing their vacation up that canyon and sent me a photo of one of their stops along the way, I would know immediately if they were in the vicinity of that beautiful fishing hole. From there, it would be just a moment of work to make some measurements on Google Maps and I would know how close they were to within maybe the nearest 25′ or so. Certainly, I would know if they were within 200′ or 500′.

          I can also make a pretty good guess as to the spots nearby where people most commonly stop to take pictures.

          • Hey Ray. My family has a cabin on the CLP. My dad was into photography for a while and he took a profile picture of a fly fisherman up in the meanders area (by the old trout hatchery and Centennial cabin). My dad framed that picture, and hung it in his office. Several years later, we found a wallet on the riverbank of our property. Dad called the owner of the wallet and arranged for that person to drop by his office in downtown Denver. Wouldn’t you know it, but the man who had lost his wallet identified himself as the flyfisherman in the photograph that was hanging on my dad’s office wall. This life is full of coincidences, isn’t it.

          • Sandy,

            I know exactly the spot you are talking about. Nice to know there are still a few people around who know about the Centennial cabin. (Love that miniseries, btw. The book, too.)

            Love your story about the picture and the wallet. Those are the moments that make life interesting. 🙂

        • As far pics being snapped in the city or even some rural areas, it would be easy to spot from memory if you’ve been there many times.
          Have you hiked trail #17 Muset?
          I know you’ve been in that area.
          I’ve hiked it a few times to recognize the openings from the thick of the forest only or where the trail jogs up hill in a few places. Once in the thick trees it’s tough to tell where you are unless you recognize a fallen tree or few.
          I could send you some pics of the trail and you would have a very tough time of finding out precisely where the pics were taken although you would be able to recognize about half of the trail and some of the pics are easy to figure out but to say Fenn would recognize every yard of it is a stretch besides, the land and trails change little by little every year.

          • Thanks for all that info. I have not yet hiked up that trail, but I plan on doing that in July around the ninth. If you’ll be there, let’s tell our stories at Mike’s cabin.

          • Muset,
            I haven’t booked anything yet and was thinking late August to avoid the water high and Jolly Green flies.

            This is Mikes last year there. He’s got a free ticket to anywhere in the world which he said he would take.
            I will be there to drain his brain again for the last hoorah.

            Brian Thompson showed up when me and my bro James were at Edridge Cabin talking to Mike and we discussed the chase for an hour or so.

            Brian is a really smart person but he is persistent that the chase is a hoax. If you see this guy, run the other way! If you like him, you can find him here:
            goo.gl/zUYo8A
            He’s not an elder….

    • Take a good look at all the pics from TTOTC and tell me which outdoor pics you could possibly tell specifically where they were taken exactly.

      Important Literature pg 8 “The author signing books at the turquoise mine.”
      Can’t tell 200′ from anywhere.

      Pg 34 Hebgen Lake.
      Can’t tell 200′ from anywhere.

      Pg 44 OFFICE cabin.
      I’m sure this cabin is long gone.

      Pg 46 His one room cabin in paradise.
      Sure this is gone but he may know what is there now.

      Pg 52. Skippy fish mouth.
      Nope

      Pg 54 Skippy.
      Doubt it.

      Pg 56 Skippy rock.
      Maybe a possibility but this place may have been rehabbed.

      Pg 59 Donnie on horse Fenn on Lightning.
      I do believe this general place where these pics were taken were found by a searcher here. Not sure if it was Decall or Will or another but either way you can’t pin it to 200′.

      Pg 61 Donnie w/horses.
      Nada.

      Pg 65 Donnie on horse
      (no recognizable specific place)
      Fenn somewhere north of red Canyon.
      I do believe this general place where these pics were taken were found by a searcher here. Not sure if it was Decall or Will or another but either way you can’t pin it to 200′.

      Can’t tell pics from Pg 64

      Pg 66 Buf Cody.
      Duno, can’t recognize trees besides, they grew a lot since then.

      Pg 68 Grayling Creek cabin.
      Not sure it’s still there.

      Pg 114 Pilot.
      Can’t recognize what’s outside the planes windows.

      Pg 120 Nice fishing.
      Where exactly? Your guess.
      Same for 122 and 123.
      A few of these pics locations can be figured out and I do think some have and posted but they never posted photos to verify so these are a mystery as well as to the exact locations. The “water hole” intruiges me as WWWH.

      Pg 125
      Alaska?
      IDK

      That’s all I got and good luck with the other pics outside the search zone and the drawings are off limits to me as a hint although Pg 99 is still a mystery.

      I’m bored.

      • Bored, spare me. Jake, you were “whispered” to , a while back. Did you not catch the $ ? What’s another name for the $ ? You were blessed. Put it to use.

        • Lori,
          How did you see or hear a whisper to me?
          How many others heard this whisper as I didn’t.
          Anything stated on a public platform is not a whisper and more like a scream.

      • Jake,

        Well 500′ mark is easy, it’s a main trail in the area. In the beginning Forrest had said “people” have been within 500′ but changed it to searchers later on. Then shortly after, he talked about searchers figuring out the first couple clues and went by the rest. Those searchers were also ones who were at that 500′ mark too, but they went by the access trail (off beaten trail) to the other clue solves to search others areas they thought fit the clues solves.

        Now the 200′ mark that you talk about Forrest seeing a picture, well for me if someone took that tangent trail and went up it a little bit they would come across heavy loads (200′ mark) and maybe they took a picture of that because it is a very stand out image, but never continued up that trail to water high.
        Not sure where the “picture” part came in to effect that you say Forrest said about the 200′ mark? Is there a place where I can see or hear that comment? I must has missed it.
        I was thinking that Forrest knew because of a email sent to him describing where a searcher had been.

        By the way, I don’t think any of the pictures in TTOTC are in the area of indulgence, but there is maybe one that could help you.

        As usual, all is food for thought.
        Good luck,
        Bur

        • The 500′ mark may be easier but I don’t think it’s easy by no means. Seeing there were (lots)? there it could be a main trail or just a high traffic area and I’m not talking about vehicles.

          200′ could be heavy loads but what are heavy loads? I would say they are recognizable to him but heavy loads might cover a large area, therefore it would be difficult to pinpoint the 200′ in this case.
          If heavy loads are about the size of a car then the 200′ would seem to be more accurate.

          The pic/email comment is here in this short clip video:
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FIOy9TggUc

          • Hi Jake,
            Looks like you’re stuck with the 200′ and 500′ like most other searchers. I could give you my explanation about that according to my solve, but I’d rather not give out anything more at this point, because you’re going to think that my solve is WRONG!. Here is another hint from Fenn your solve has to satisfy. Does your trail has any short cuts? if it has, then your solve is wrong. Because he said “Look at the big picture. There are no short cuts.”
            — MK

          • MK,
            I wouldn’t say your solve is wrong, I would just tell you some things don’t make sense like the 3 locations you talk about.
            I was just wondering if you guys would share your opinion on what he may have seen in the pic(s).

            All the trails I have hiked have no shortcuts and have one way in and out.

            PS: You’re the one calling other peoples solves WRONG if they don’t fit your way of thinking as you just did above. Thanks.

          • My solve hits all of what I believe are ff’s clues and hints except for the 500’/200′ statements and as such I treat them as a red herring i.e. Forrest ginning up excitement. Sticking with the poem and TToTC.

          • I’m not sure how much weight to give the 200’/500′ statement. I’m glad some searchers like you ignore it all together that way when the treasure is found we may get to know which of his statements were right on or off.
            Who knows, maybe the person who finds the treasure may say there was no specific recognizable features 200′ away from the treasure to me.
            He reserves the right to be wrong once in a while as far as he can remember.

          • my last thought to ponder is how deep is the hole ff dug (imo) to bury the tc.

          • Physically probably not too deep if he did dig, but most if not all his ATF statements, books and such, the rabbit holes could be infinite depending on the searchers interpretations. I try to keep it simple, practical, realistic and logical.

          • Hi Jake… I have not given any serious thought to what *may* have been in the so- called *picture/pictures* that folks have sent Fenn. It seems lacking in any kind of approach to solving the clues in the poem. With the exception of that one *picture* comment…Fenn has repeatedly said he knows folks have been within 500 feet and 200 feet because they have told him exactly where they were. Short of just a curiosity…this/these comments really only confirm that the first couple of clues are within grasp. Beyond that I think using the 500’/200′ as any basis for the answers to the actual clues is a total wash. Sure…a searcher could have a *guess* as to the first couple of clues and draw imaginary circles around their guess area. The bottom line is…that just becomes an imaginary set of lines around nothing more than a guess. The answers are in the poem for all to see…

          • Ken, CharlieM,
            If you think you have solved most of the clues that bring you to a general place then you may want to give it the 200’/500′ Fenn statement challenge.

            This should not be used to figure out all the clues obviously and probably should not be used to figure any clues but to give you an idea how far apart things are in your final search area. I think it’s wise to know how far a waterfall is from a trail or trail sign or rock outcropping etc…

            I’m sure you guys had or have solves where you think it brings you to a general area and i think if it’s in the middle of thick woods where there are no landmarks to judge the 200′ statement then your solve may not be correct if the 200/500′ statement is correct and accurate.

          • Hi Jake… I believe most folks that have been around a bit have gone into the 500’/200′ abyss(myself included) a time or two. I suppose it’s something to do. I keep going back to the more basic Fenn statements that seem more logic friendly. “No one will happen upon the treasure chest. They will have to figure out the clues before they can find it- Read the clues in my poem over and over and study maps of the Rocky Mountains.” 2017 This seems to clearly state that a searcher *must* figure out all of the clues before they can find it.
            Here’s another basic guideline that reels me back in. “Nobody is going to accidentally stumble on that treasure chest. They’re going to have to figure out the clues and let the clues take them to that spot. People that have been within 200 feet of the treasure didn’t know they were there. KOAT 2015 How can drawing 500 and 200 foot circles around an unknown possibly help someone when Fenn has repeatedly exclaimed that the only way is to figure out the clues and follow them to the spot? I believe that a searcher that figures out the first few clues is going to have to finish solving to have a chance. I do not believe there is any shortcut or finagling that is going to bypass the last clues. I think this is an *all, or nothing* game. Fun topic to toss around during the winter though…thanks.

          • Hi Jake,
            What I said is that any solves that don’t fit to what Fenn has said are not the correct solve.
            — MK

          • MK,
            Fenn never mentioned anything about trails in that “shortcut” statement that I know of.
            So you’re either seeing things or hearing things and changing what he said to fit your idea or it’s just may be another mistake by you in YOUR translation of what HE said.

            Do you see anything mentioned about trails in his statement? I don’t.
            “There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them. You over simplify the clues. There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts. f”

          • Hi Jake,
            Your Fenn quote is right. Please read it again. He never mentioned about “the trail”, and I didn’t say “there are no short cuts TO THE TRAIL.” I only quoted his comments and said “there are no short cuts.” Period.
            There are lines which contains 9 clues, and there are many hints by Fenn, and also there are “subtle” hints Fenn said he included in the book. I don’t have the book. You have to concentrate on the 9 clues first. If you can’t solve the clues with only the poem, then you start to consider the hints Fenn gave. If that would not help you either, then you try to find another “subtle” hints in the book as the LAST RESORT. If you are able to solve the poem without any other hints, then you use the hints gave by Fenn as additional confirmations to your solve. I think “no short cuts” comment applies to the whole solve from WWWWH to the Blaze, not just a trail.
            — MK

          • MK,
            I will add this and go no further because it’s not worth it.

            You said: “Does your trail has any short cuts? if it has, then your solve is wrong. Because he said “Look at the big picture. There are no short cuts.”
            — MK”

            I just wish people would say “this is how I interpret this” instead of telling all those searchers out there that their solve is wrong.
            Now that’s just the wrong trail to take and you shortcut them right out.

            Read it again and have a wonderful evening.

          • Jake,

            Thanks for the link to the comment about pictures. I have never seen that interview and that’s unusual.

            I have written Forrest a few times with different searches over the years, and he has always commented on them, but funny at it is that I also wrote him of my search in the area I have found at least seven clue solves by just using the poem and google maps in May 2016. This email he never commented to. Not saying mine is the one he is referring to but sure hits home. This was the last I had been out to the Rockies.

            As far as my heavy loads, it definitely something that stands out on that off beaten trail and it is the size of about a 30′ radius and can’t be missed.

            As far as 200′ & 500′ circles, I only drew them after I had what I believe are solves for the clues in the poem. All but the blaze solve that is, that’s what the circles are for to maybe help with that solve or chest location.
            I do believe I have two possibles on what the blaze might be after looking at pictures and video of my search area taken at a higher elevation looking down to water high. Of course there is only one way to know if one of them is the blaze and I will find out come first week of May.

            Not sure when your next search is or if you are still traveling out from Florida (thought you once talked about moving out closer to the Rockies), but good luck,

            Bur

          • There always seems to be something we missed Bur.

            Yup, the 200’/500′ thing is after you think you have most of the clues and may be a good guide to eliminate where the chest is not and may be where it is.
            My main technique is to eliminate what, where and when is not possible and that leaves me what could be.

            Kinda crude but the process of elimination is better than guessing where it is instead of where it is not.

            There’s only one way to find out and you’re going to do it again graciously without all the drama and most will appreciate that here (I hope) including me, the way you interact here with other searchers should be a lesson for those others.

            I decided not to move near my search area do to good paying jobs available and the chilling cold and high altitude.

            I do respect and like your honest intelligent interactions.
            🙂
            Peace

          • And I wholeheartedly disagree. He said the hints in his book are “subtle”. If it were simple it would have been discovered long ago, for example as quickly as the medals are discovered.

          • For me the 200’, 500’ is irrelevant, and I can imagine that someone searchers are trying to tie those measurements into their theory. For me I stick with the clues. Those measurements will be obvious as well as the distance to the blaze.

            Just Say’n

          • I can keep my secret where

            a valid but not commonly known or recognized method of achieving or maintaining something.
            “the secret of a happy marriage is compromise”
            synonyms: recipe, formula, blueprint, magic formula, key, answer, solution
            “the secret of their success”

      • Jake-

        Bored? I am anything than bored.

        Oh, I forgot, you think I have it all figured out…don’t you?
        Page 99 relates to clue 8.
        Think …99…tree type depicted….and golf

        Come on Jake..you can do it.
        and the meaning of S***** is ?
        I can’t help the unwilling..

        Best regards;
        1F and the deputy

  101. The only thing in TTOTC is the Poem, and TFTW is the map. With that said, within the poem there is travel by car and then by foot. I am thinking this parking spot is well visited and FF recognizes this as a key word. Now whether people have been 200ft from or at this spot and same goes for the 500ft – one can imagine this is the key every is whispering about but will not share.

    • IMO the key word is a map key ,that defines wwwh and how you can take wwwh”it” down a canyon..?

  102. Debi –
    So it’s a half mile trek huh? Interesting. Seems like that might just be a round trip from the clubhouse to the final hole. Sound about right? Hey. That’s what golf carts are for. Mind if I play through?

  103. I would like to share the first search my wife and I did for Fenn’s treasure. I was very new to the hunt at the time and hadn’t read much about what Fenn had said in interviews. Looking back, I would not have gone searching here but we had a wonderful trip, so it was well worth it.

    Maybe some of my thoughts will spark new ideas in someone. I won’t give any thoughts about my current ideas on where I think Warm Waters Halt. We are planning a trip to the Rockies in September to search again.

    First Solve:
    1. Where warm waters halt: I took this to mean at the edge of a lake.
    2. Take it in the canyon down: I was guessing he used a canoe to traverse the lake.
    3. Not far but too far to walk: I thought it might be faster in a canoe to reach the other end of the lake than by foot.
    4. Put in below the home of Brown: Where to dock the canoe? This had me stumped and I thought I would find it when I went on the search. However, I came across a photo while searching the web of something that was rusty brown and had been in that location at the lake for about 100 years. This, I thought, was the home of “Brown”. Maybe as a kid he saw this and called it “Brown”.
    5. From there it’s no place for the meek: This is bear country! Be careful.
    6. The end is drawing nigh: There is a creek coming up. The water comes from melting snow on the peaks to the left.
    7. There’ll be no paddle of your creek: Definitely cannot use any floatation device in this steep fast-moving creek.
    8. Just heavy loads and water high: There are giant boulders in the creek and the melting water from the snow comes from a high peak.
    9. If you’ve been wise and found the blaze: There is a waterfall just up the creek. I thought this may be the blaze and the chest would be under a ledge nearby.

    After our adventure I realized that it would take too long for anyone to make two roundtrips to the location. It was 16 miles of hiking total for us. Two trips would be 32 miles. Even using a canoe would take quite a bit of time. If he had used a canoe at this location, he would not have had time to make two trips to his car as he stated. He could have placed the entire treasure and chest in the canoe, but he has said that he made two trips from his vehicle.

    Anyway, I wanted to stop just being a lurker and post some thoughts. I have read many of your thoughts and wanted to take an active role in sharing some of mine.

    Good luck everyone!

    P.S. Like many of you this treasure hunt consumes my thoughts. I love puzzles, I love the outdoors, and I am sure I would love the treasure!

    • What a delightful refreshing post, Kurt. I look forward to your post following your Sept Rockies visit with your bride.

      So many here love to engage in theory and semantics rather than share their experience with Nature which, after all, was f’s sole objective for creating the Chase.

    • Hi Kurt;

      Thanks for the post. I enjoyed reading it. Forrest said that the poem is “Straight Forward”, and to “Simplify.” Well, you certainly have done that. Sorry you didn’t find it, but sounds like you and your wife found treasures anyway. Good Luck, and thanks again for posting – JDA

  104. Bur, where did you get the idea that the people that were 500 ft are the same as the ones that had that had the first two clues and went past the rest, It’s been a while since ff made those comments but I never hears him say anything that links the the two. Just curious. Thanks

    • Forest said there is not a trail in close proximity of where he hid his end. Is 200 feet close and 500 feet not? Root of proximity is nearest, so the 500 feet is a trail? LOL there’s a link. Don’t forget curiosity killed the cat ..,but satisfaction brought’em back.

      • He said there is not a human made trail in close proximity. If you are a hiker, you probably know that many trails are not man made. Many are dry riverbeds, rock formatiions or along stream beds. Just because itbg isnt a human trail doesnt mean it isntva trail
        -Flutterby

      • The correct quote is that it is not in VERY close proximaty(sic)

        Close, and very close might mean a lot. Best to get quotes correct when you use them – Thanks – JDA

    • Not Obsessed,

      Well to me if the searchers got the first couple of clues solved and they took that canyon down trail, that canyon down trail is the main trail which everyone and anyone can take and enjoy. That main trail, to me, goes for quite a distance but the tangent trail off it is less then a mile down from wwwh. I have researched this area of wwwh and the canyon down trail and found at least two searchers who posted their searches which started at the same wwwh and they took that canyon down, as the one I have come across. Their posts were on other websites and were before Forrest commented about “searchers” being at the 500′ mark. There has been another searcher other then myself and my wife, that has posted the same wwwh and canyon down in the last couple years (I didn’t post but emailed Forrest my clue solves we searched).

      Of course what I stated could mean nothing or could possibly be the searchers Forrest is talking about.

      Thanks for the question. Good luck,
      Bur

  105. The 200′ & 500′ comments from F doesn’t say where this happened along the lines of the clues. Some say this happened after the second clue, which I completely disagree with. I would think this happened towards the end of the clues to be that close. As I said above the distance is irrelevant and doesn’t help in finding the TC, nor does it indicated which direction from where to go?

    As far as I am concerned this creates a huge rabbit hole that needs not to go into. Yes ff brought up how close folks have been, I believe the distances was not intended as a hint at all or anything helpful. The distances from where the blaze is, to the 200′ folks have walked by, will only be obvious after the TC has been found. This also applies to, “too far to walk”.

    This topic has been thoroughly discussed here on hoD in the past, with no fruitful help in finding the clues. Great for discussions, but that’s about it. Of course all is IMHO.

    Just Say’n

    • yep…and without figuring out the other eight…a big ole goose egg every time! thanks for sharing…

    • Little Indi’s tend to always win the spelling bees in my school district.

    • So about that little girl from India here’s the latest quote I can find from Forrest in which he directly mentions her. It’s from 8/12/16 on Jenny’s site.

      Mr. Fenn, you’ve undoubtedly met countless numbers of us searchers (via email), is there anyone who stands out in your mind, and if so, why? Many stick out in my mind Doug, but especially the fictitious little girl from India who Jenny invented.f

      Perhaps we shouldn’t give her too much credit. Plus it just opens the door to borderline Indian stereotypes that are far less clever than their authors would presume.

  106. Hi CharlieM,
    But I tell you that that very comment and a comment from a searcher about that comment were my starting point to come up with the current solve. Without that comment I don’t think I was able to do it. But once I think I’ve got the solve all other hints started to fit right. I’ve mentioned a couple times before, but if you want to search for the blaze on your BOTG you’re far away from finding it. You have to find the blaze before you’re on your BOTG first, IMHO.
    — MK

    • And that’s the confidence I’m talking about.

      Jake,
      I’m sorry that my way of saying things have offended you. Fenn was happy that many searchers went out there to find the chest. And many searchers were glad that they took the challenge, enjoyed the nature, and had a memorable time with the family members even though they returned home empty handed. Some lost their lives searching in the wrong place at wrong time. It maybe ok for people close to the RM since it means several hours of driving and a couple of nights at hotels (it reminds me of Dal’s recollection of about more than 70 trips until now). But for people far away from the RM it means a lot of money and time and planning to get out there and be on their BOTG to find the chest. And if they think it’s ok for them to waste a lot of money and time for this chase, that is not my problem but theirs. But if I can be of help somehow in refining their solve and/or coming up with a better solve or the correct one (i.e., closer to the chest) before they are on their BOTG, I thought I was doing a small service to the chase community. Please do not misunderstand me. I don’t want to discourage anybody or discount any of their efforts for solve. If you think it’s not worth to discuss, please disregard any of my comments. I won’t comment on any of your posts either. Good luck to you in finding the chest.
      — MK

  107. Well, the reply button under Kurt’s post isn’t working… but Kurt, I like your straight forward thinking. And your ‘too far to walk’ conclusion could easily reflect FF’s “but not too far to run” comment. Another mode of transportation is needed. When I say that ‘I’ve got to make a run to the bank, or store, etc.’ It doesn’t mean I am ambulating. I wonder, does anyone consider calling a canoe ride a ‘canoe run’? I keep falling back to a kid making a ‘run’ on his bike. In fact, the first bikes weren’t called bikes. Maybe when FF was visiting a museum in Germany he saw a prototype called the ‘running machine.’

  108. AA –
    I keep seeing “Little Indi”. Don’t know what that is but it must be an important clue in the Chase. I will contemplate on that while I sit by our all electric artificial fireplace with my dog by my side.

    • EasyPeasy;

      Here is the quote that has inspired the “Little Indi” comments

      5Q) Your treasure hunt has inspired people worldwide to discover history, culture and nature, but many people, (even in the US) might be deterred because they don’t live near the Rockies or can’t afford to travel. Should they be deterred? Can a little girl in India, who speaks good English, but only has your poem and a map of the US Rocky Mountains, work out where the treasure is? And would she be confident as she solves each clue, or only confident when she has solved them all?
      I wish I had another treasure to hide in the Appalachians. The little girl in India cannot get closer than the first two clues. There are many disabled people who are deeply into maps and geography, and they are having a lot of fun.:

      mysteriouswritings.com/six-questions-with-forrest-fenn-over-five-years-of-the-thrill-of-the-chase/

      Hope this helps – JDA

      • Hi JDA, It’s a curious quote, don’t you think? If little Indy can’t marry the clues to more than two places on the map, why or how can we?

        • I am going to surmise that the Little Girl cannot get closer because she cannot go unaccompanied on a trail: hence the quote, “many disabled people who are deeply into…. are having alot of fun.” JMO

        • I’ve been thinking about your second question for the past couple days, James, as well as, Mr. Fenn’s response, “The little girl in India cannot get closer than the first two clues.” Do the first two clues get you to the spot and one must figure out where the treasure chest is hidden with the remaining clues? Is it as Debi mentioned that the little girl needs to be accompanied for the remaining clues?

  109. Thanks for keeping me on the straight and narrow JDA. You’re a walking Encyclopedis Fennatica.

    • Easy;

      Are you aware that if you click on the reply button, that your comment will appear below the comment that you are referencing – Like my comment is now appearing below your comment – The one I am referencing – Just a helpful hint – makes following a conversation a lot easier – JDA

  110. JDA.
    Reply button doesn’t work.
    I think his message is that all you need is the poem and the map and you can find the first few clues. Like when he says marry the two. Who knows.

    • Grasshopper;

      If the reply button doesn’t work, how is it that my post appeared below his, and not aligned on the left side like yours, and why this one appears below yours, and not aligned on the left? – JDA

      • JDA. Charlie’s question is the answer. If I use my I phone it doesn’t work. Have to use the leave reply box. But if I use my I pad it works. So maybe easy has that problem.
        I do know that I have to exit this site and return to get updated some times.
        I’m not a fan of technology but realize it’s importantance.

    • The question should be what type of technology he is using. I use the iPad or computer and have no problems.

      • I’m not Grasshopper, but here are my observations in case they help with diagnosis.

        I had problems for while, but it is fixed for me now. I was using Explorer on one laptop and Firefox on another. (Windows 10 on both laptops.) I don’t visit this site on my iPhone or iPad, so cannot speak to that.

  111. Question for everybody, Do you think the third clue was (easy to find), after finding the first two clues? Thanks

    • James-
      How could anyone answer your question since no one knows if they have found the correct first three clues?
      Additionally, since no one here has found the chest or knows for certain if what they assume are the second and third clues in the poem are the same ones that Forrest intended to be the second and third clues in the poem…

      For instance…some folks think the third clue if NFBTFTW while others don’t think that’s a clue and believe the third clue is PIBTHOB…

      I don’t believe there is enough known about the actual clues to answer your question…

      • Hi Dal, It was just meant to be a general question, for searchers that have thought, they knew what the clues were. What I wanted to know was, were they pretty quickly drawn to the third or fourth clue.?

    • Yes.

      “Sometimes the questions are complicated and the answers are simple.”
      ― Dr. Seuss

      • I’ve put together a lot of solves that have not panned out. In my experience, every solve comes together differently.

        And I have no idea if I have *ever* found the third clue. I may have missed it by about ten miles coming and going.

  112. Reply Buttons

    There are several of us who haven’t been able to use the Reply buttons since last weekend, when no one could. Since Chris did his fix, it works for many but not for all of us.

    I don’t know have the tech savvy to know what the difference could be between Reply-able posters and those of us still Reply-less.

    (Reply buttons are visible, but clicking on them doesn’t pull up a new reply box for me like it used to, so we’re limited to using the one at the bottom that doesn’t tie to a particular post).

    Jake

  113. (I use a pc laptop, not a phone, and I’ve tried clearing cache and logging back in, but maybe not successfully.)

  114. The ads also seem to have proliferated since last weekend. There was one day this past week when ads appeared *right in the middle* of a couple posts (they didn’t cover any posting text, they just interrupted the text).

    • Jake,

      The one thing that has helped a bunch. Check your browser settings under privacy settings, if you have the option for In browsing privacy settings, make sure it is checked. The adds should go away if you have the option checked.

      What I noticed in my browser, the adds kept refreshing over and over on any page that you are on, that may be the problem. Setting the privacy settings stopped the problem.

      The browser that I am using is Firefox, as I dislike Chrome and Edge because they don’t have many options to control the browser or how it looks. Make sure that blocking cookies is unchecked, if you block cookies this may make some sites not accessible.

      Just Say’n

  115. JDA

    Re: “Little Indi”.

    Thanks for the info. Reply button seems to be hit and miss. Can’t even post at times.
    Everyone looks at the world differently just as everyone looks at the poem differently. Each person has a different perspective on the poem just as in life. You bring to the table those things you would like to share. With that said I would like to share some thoughts. I look at the poem from one perspective where one would like you to find treasures. As in life you must find your way home to the Garden of Eden. If all the people of the world were searching for this treasure there would be many paths to it. Just as in life here we see parallels. Good Book -> Heaven Three Books -> treasure. Both have many stories and lessons to be learned to reach your goal/gold. Forrest seems to be teaching as the elders once did. They would not come out and tell you what you’re doing is not right they would spare you losing face. They would come along and casually start telling you a story. When this took place you knew you must take a good look at yourself. It’s up to you if you want to contemplate what you could do to correct wrong doing. Forrest immersed himself in all things native. It would not surprise me if some of it rubbed off on him. IMO

    “What we’ve learned is that you should always tell the truth, but you should not always tell ALL of the truth.”

    Who knows maybe a little injunuity might make all the difference.
    P.S.
    There does seem to be an OZ connection.

    • Thunder;

      You say: “If all the people of the world were searching for this treasure there would be many paths to it. ” I am not sure I agree. Regardless of how many people are looking – 35 or 350,000, Forrest has said that to the best of his knowledge there is only one way – or words to that effect. I take Forrest at his word.

      True, there MAY be many different ways to interpret the poem, and even each line or word, but there is only one “Correct Solve.”… and none of us has read it yet.

      I am not sure that Forrest is playing the role of an elder in the tribe – although he certainly is older than most of us – including me. Forrest has chosen to write his memoirs, tales about his life, from which we can all learn something, but I am not sure that there is a “lesson” to be learned regarding the Chase.

      In the end, I DO think that the reason Forrest’s “Hidey Place” is special to him will become special to us all, once the “story” has been told, and from that story, yes, a lot will be learned. JDA

      • JDA and Thunder.
        I think your both are right on your opinions and i also believe that only Mr. Fenn. will revel that information about why it’s so special. I think maybe we all think it may be a small spot that’s so special and that maybe it’s a large area that is what’s so special. After all a mudd puddle is a lake to an ant as maybe the ocean is to us. Leaving the size of the spot to anyone’s imagination.
        My guess is that the memoir in the chest may answer these questions if Mr Fenn. Does not. But that has not yet to be. But my guess is it’s personal. And that whoever is the one will have some big boots to fill.
        Just my opinion
        Grasshopper

      • I have to agree with JDA here. I think Forrest has made it clear that the poem describes the most direct route to the Chest and that there are no shortcuts.

        I feel that the poem is the map, but his memoir contains the lessons, both about the Chase and about life itself. Learn from TTOTC, apply what you learn to the poem, and marry it to a place on a map. Then you can go straight to the Chest. I also think that as you learn how to understand the poem, you also learn about the things Forrest finds valuable, which will reveal why the hiding spot is so special to him.

        I think whoever finds Indulgence is going to think, “Okay, I finally get it. This all makes perfect sense now.”

        • Ray Henry- my thoughts exactly.
          except i prefer to name the chest simply “the chest” indulgence wont work for me.

          thank you Ray Henry.

      • JDA
        Many paths would be the many different interpretations’ to the poem with each person drawing on the knowledge they have or research. People from many different walks of life. As for Forrest teaching like an elder that’s just my take on it. That was how I was thought. Listening to see what is really being said. It is like reading between the lines. I agree there is only one solve. The lesson to be learned here for me is to try and see it from his perspective. As for the Garden of Eden that’s my take on seeing something as for the first time and not realizing it was there all along. It’s a real shame we did not take better care of her. She really is beautiful. I should like to go end see his special place after it’s all said and done. Just my opinion.
        Peace

  116. Imo…

    I think west thumb lake may be the wwh. They are warm to hot lakes that feed into west thumb/ yellowstone. And they stop/halt being hot when fed into frigid west thumb/yellowstone lake..

    Also, halt means to suddenly stop. Forest covered Philadelphia with his thumb and suddenly realized this. Maybe a hint…?

    • Speaking of thumbs, anybody looked below meeteetse wy on google earth? Buffalo basin looks like dead ringer for the headstone fenn is holding in ” my war for me”. IMO
      This was a rabbit hole for me but maybe it will jar somebody’s mind. Adam Weis peek is below and west. Looks like a W.

      • To me, the basin looks like a thumbprint. I wonder if Philadelphia is buried under it.

        I am also fascinated by the cross-shaped airstrips just north of town. Decommissioned, I think.

        I don’t have a solve in this area; I just find those things interesting.

        • Hi Ray, the basin reminds me of a thumbprint in my area too, but I am not near Meeteetse WY. Wonder if Phili or Indulgence is buried under MY thumbprint? HAHA JDA

    • Jake-

      Secret agent Brandon andI trekked up to where we believe the strong box is secreted. The snowpack is somewhere between six and eight feet deep. It is still a long way (time) away from being able to finish the quest. IMO

      1F Billy

  117. I was going over past FF statements and he said …”he could go and get it right quick” (paraphrasing). He was referring to the chest. This means the chest is somewhere closer to Santa Fe than Wyoming or Montana. Unless you are a Superhero, traveling from Santa Fe to those states is not “right quick”. Traveling by commercial or private plane is not quick either and would require check-in, car rental, travel time, etc. The most logical explanation to this comment is he could drive to where the chest is, in a relatively short period.
    Traveling to Wyoming or Montana to check on the chest would raise suspicion with his family. My money is on New Mexico. I think the “right quick” statement was a clue.

    • Tarheel;

      I have never heard of Forrest saying this. Please provide a reference – Quote and when and where he said that. I honestly think you are mistaken, but I could be wrong – JDA

      • JDA,

        JDA,
        In “Forrest Gets Even More Email” in February 2013, FF responding to an email states, “Clevon, tell me what you are thinking now so if it’s close I can go get it right quick and move it to a harder place. f”

        I take it to mean the chest is close to Santa Fe. Maybe…maybe not.
        No one will know until it is found.

        Good luck and stay safe.

        • Tarheel,

          That is a sarcastic remark only in response to Clevon. I don’t think its a clue at all.

        • Tarheel;

          Read your own post – Forrest says …”…IF IT’S CLOSE…” Forrest is NOT saying that it IS close. “…IF IT’S CLOSE Forrest can go get it right quick…” Just quoting what Forrest actually said, not what you want to think he said. Just sayin’ – JDA

          • JD –

            IT = “where Clevon thinks the chest is”.

            So ff is actually saying/joking that

            IF *where Clevon thinks the chest is* IS CLOSE

            to where it really is, he’ll go get it and move it.

            Jake

    • Tarheel Searcher,

      I don’t recall that F even implied “right quick”, could you point as to where you got that impression? Just curious.

    • I hear ya….Forrest is a man of big statements though. If i had a special place i had known for years i would make it happen just to prove that i dont weaken for good enough. Imo

    • Tarheel..
      ummm..when did Forrest refer to himself as “he” and I have not heard the “right quick” part of that statement..
      Please add a link to that statement..
      I am familiar with the quote where Forrest wrote:
      “At age 85 I could go back and get it.”
      But nothing about “he” or “right quick”…

      By the way…my quote above can be found on Jenny’s Six Questions page of her blog…HERE:
      http://mysteriouswritings.com/six-questions-with-forrest-fenn-over-five-years-of-the-thrill-of-the-chase/
      show me yours…

      • Tarheel’s quote is here, the last one in this collection of mail:

        https://dalneitzel.com/2013/02/11/1251/

        I doubt that it signifies what Tarheel thinks it does; but his paraphrasing is a lot tighter than most bother to do here anymore.

        Even an ol’ Regular, who actually knows the material, presents a lot of ATF’s reduced to what-he/she-thinks-they-mean paraphrases. Notoriously (and repeatedly) that ff said he was “surprised” that searchers started looking at maps.

        Anyway, if you’re gonna take Tarheel out behind Grampa’s barn “pour encourager les autres”, carry on, mon capitan.

        It might work I guess.

        Jake

        • Tarheel had the *right quick* correck…and I still believe that going over all of the info repeatedly helps keep it fresh…and a bit more accurate. Some do not appreciate the repetitive nature of the rehash…but I do.

          • Vetting quotes has the added advantage that while you’re looking you find stuff you hadn’t seen before, or find something interesting you’d forgotten about.

            Even finding what you were looking for and realizing that it sometimes doesn’t exactly say what you thought you remembered, that too helps keep the eyes and the mind fresh.

            Jake

  118. Anybody feel like the blaze maybe a 1935 wrecked plymouth, 200 ft off the road with a ball of string inside?

    • Or the rusted out, heavy ars piece of the front end of an old care with a rope tied to it just at the bank of a creek that averages 1 foot of water not too far off the road from a bridge at mile marker 244?
      😉

      • Good one Jdiggins. That’s one of my favorite chapters, can you just imagine being there.

        Good luck,
        Bur

  119. Dal,

    Did Chris E ever find out what the problem may be with the reply button not working for some?
    Yesterday I mentioned to Chris that the adds were causing the pages to refresh over and over again. He never responded back.

    Just Curious .

  120. IF ( huge “if”) I am correct, there will be a lot of upset searchers in the spring. I’ll even be upset at myself for not seeing it sooner.
    The key word.

    • Veronica S,

      In your picture above, is the tree what you considered the blaze that you seem to be searching below?

      The reason I ask is about 3-4 years ago I came across one similar in a my area of search. It must have been struck by lighting years back because it was all burnt on the outside like charcoal and the only one like it in my area. I had asked here on hoD others if they would ever consider something like that to be a blaze. Of course mixed answers but the one question was asked ” would it be there in a 1000 years?”. I thought most likely not after but searched all around it at the time. It just stood out in this green wooded area.

      The only reason I came across it was that I followed the npuyc creek up to a cluster of boulders that looked like the gold nugget placement with the frog and coin in the TTOTC book. I seen that cluster in a satellite view and thought that’s where indulgence was hidden. Not true. I should have went to water high and search below it. I will get that chance come spring too.
      On a funny note that satellite view as I zoomed in really close there was what to be a drawing on one of the boulders and it looked like that of the chest. I about fell out and thought maybe this is Forrest “drawing” nigh. After checking other satellite views I noticed no such drawing on them so I researched different years, well nothing but that one view. Now this is the funny part as I stayed zoomed in on that view I moved around the area and seen a imprint on the view which said Goggle. That chest drawing was part of a faded out square G or square e the rest of the name blended to the surrounding area and just that letter stood out on that boulder top. Boy my heart felt like a bad break up. But I searched those boulders anyway.
      Thought you might like this story.

      Good luck and by the way I post below a comment on you word that is key.

      Bur

      • Very interesting post Bur. Good luck with your search come spring (which happens to be on the 20th of March) – But I know you do not plan on venturing out until May. – I think I can visualize where you are talking about. JDA

      • Hey Bur
        ” would it be there in a 1000 years?”

        Some archaeologist a thousand years from now will be saying I’m sure it was that Forrest character. This charcoal is where he made his fire. Maybe Einstein could help with that “square e” after all he did help make the mother of all blazes.

        What in tarnation is a goin on here? What the blazes? Camp town ladies sing this song.
        Ne Le Gog

  121. Veronica S.

    To me if you found “the word that is key” then your on your way to maybe understanding why it appears at the first clue solve. For me it was a research process to understand, but it reassured me I had the first solve in the poem and was the one Forrest is referring to. That word is right there “connected” to wwwh.

    Of course all I say is just food for thought.

    Good luck Veronica S come spring,
    Bur

    • Not sure why the reply button didn’t work on your post Veronica S so just trying on mine.

      Bur

          • Thanks Clint,

            It was Veronica’s button that I didn’t work on (I think). Maybe since she was the bottom post and the comment box was there, I might have not hit her reply button. Oh well one of life’s mysteries.

            Bur

    • I wonder if Chris or Dal are Listening to us here. We never had the problem before and I believe the problem is the adds that continually refreshes the pages non stop.

      I wonder……….

  122. I can’t get the reply button to work either. This is for Bur
    Bur,
    I can’t find where Forrest said the clues will still be there in 1000 years. He was asked if the clues would still exist in a 100 years or a 1000 years and his reply was “I think they may exist in 100 years but the geography probably will change before we reach the next millennia”. Maybe I’m misinterpreting something.

    • MM

      How about this one?

      Question posted 6/25/2014:
      “Hi,
      Did the same 9 clues exist when you were a kid and to your estimation will they still exist in 100 years and 1000 years?
      Thanks ~Ron
      Thanks Ron, thoughtful questions
      The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might still exist in 100 years but the geography probably will change before we reach the next millennia. The Rocky mountains are still moving and associated physical changes will surely have an impact. If you are in the year 3,009 it will be more difficult for you to find the treasure” f JDA

    • MM,

      I was referring to when Forrest said he “didn’t care if it was found tomorrow or 1,000 years from now” (I’m paraphrasing). Searchers have taken this in many ways. Some think the “blaze” is something that has to be able to survive that long, and so do I along with all the other clue solves. JDA showed the other phrase Forrest comment on about the Rockies moving.
      Hope that helps in your question.
      Bur

  123. Thanks JDA. That’s similar to what I found. I don’t see how this can be interpreted as the clues will still be there in 1000 years.

    • MM;

      To me it does say that the clues will be there in 1,000 years – Forrest says that geography will change in 1,000 years and that the Rocky Mountains are still moving, but how much will they move in only 1,000 years? Mount Everest, which is growing MUCH faster than the Rocky Mountains is growing at the rate of 4MM/year or 4,000 mm in 1000 years or about 13 feet.

      If a clue exists today, it might move 13′ in 1,000 years (at most) but why wouldn’t it still exist?

      From what I can research, the Rocky Mountains “grew” 50 million years ago, and are no longer growing, but rather eroding at a very slow pace.
      Some isolated forces, like around Yellowstone, cause SMALL bulges due to magma , but these are small and isolated.

      I would bet on the clues still being around 1,000 years. Maybe harder to find, but still there. A creek may change course a bit, but how much? Probably not a great deal. If your solve relies on things like trees etc, I might reevaluate. If it relies on streams or rivers – probably no problems If it relies on mountains and valleys – you are probably safe – at least during your, and your children’s lifetime – JMO – JDA

    • MM,

      What I don’t understand why some are concerned about a thousand years from now. I understand the concern that the blaze being around, what about all the places or things the clues represent? Surely some of the places or things that might not be there a 1k years from not. It seems to me, if some of the clues might not be there would make it much harder to find the blaze.

      Does this make sense?

      Just Say’n

      • My thought on that is simply that it means the clues are unlikely to be things with relatively short life spans; they will be things that are somewhat durable.

        So, I’m less inclined to look at things like street signs and more inclined to look at things like rock formations. Not necessarily indestructible, but at least likely to be around for a long time.

        After all, on a long enough timeline, everything fades away eventually.

    • ** ** ** **
      JD weighed in – “To me it does say that the clues will be there in 1,000 years – Forrest says that geography will change in 1,000 years and that the Rocky Mountains are still moving, but how much will they move in only 1,000 years?”
      ** ** ** **

      I think the “associated physical changes” are the real agents of change, JD.

      “I don’t think earth can hurt it [the chest], under the right conditions wind might affect it, it’s probably already wet, and look at what fire did to the twin towers. Nature makes her own rules, James, so I try to not be absolute when talking about her.” ff (27 Oct ’14)

      The Gros Ventre Landslide and the Hebgen Lake Quake both moved a lot of landscape (both 20th century).

      Bulldozers?

      If his dad had hid a chest in Glenn Canyon in 1938, it’d now be at the bottom of Lake Powell.

      Sure, the Sun Dagger on Fajada Butte (Chaco Canyon) still works, well over a thousand years later.

      But who a thousand years ago could have foreseen that all the big Hohokam sites would now be buried under Phoenix Arizona?

      Like CM, I don’t see much point in speculating about it, and I think that’s exactly what ff was saying – “how would I or anyone else possibly know what ‘my secret where’ will look like in a thousand years”?

      Jake

      • I hope the chest was hidden far from any avalanche chutes! Places that havent slid in years are going off right and left. The Rocky Mtns are seeing some epic slides that are no doubt changing the landscape. Red Mtn Pass is closed indefinitely…the footage of that avalanche is beyond incredible. Check it out…gives you a sense of the power of Mother Nature.

        • There is no shortage of snow in the Colorado Rockies so far this year.

          Our youngest was home from Ft Lewis for a very cold snowy spring break last week. We were a little worried about Wolf Creek Pass on her way back there on Sunday, but they had no problems on that line.

          Another big snow appears to be pushing into the Rockies right now, probably hit the front range here by midweek on its way to blasting the Midwest plains.

          Runoff should be something else later this spring. Good year for rafting? Maybe they’ll light up the Dolores again.

          Jake

          • We are anticipating “huuuge” run off which will likely include lots of debris from the Hermosa drainage post 416 fire as well as mudslides and what not. Plan on fun spectator sport watching the boating carnage at Santa Rita for the month of June. They did re-work that part of the town run but it hasn’t been challenged with high water. Will you be here for Animas River Days?? Now THAT is entertainment. Not too many mountain towns boast a river running thru it, and bumper to bumper watercraft for an entire weekend. Good times on the River of Lost Souls. PS I think the Dolores is going big this year.

          • What should be worry some is how quickly the snow thaws and how soon.
            All I keep thinking about was the flooding and the damage that happened not too long ago with the Big Thompson here in CO.

          • On the plus side, the reservoirs may very well be at max capacity this summer. But yeah, spring thaw is likely to bring substantial flooding.

  124. Bur,
    When I was searching here, there is a place where 2 mountains come together with a deep creek running between them . I just stumbled across this tree ( most likely struck by lightning) because it stood out . The stones were these huge slabs with all kinds of crevices to search . I believe the blaze has to be something more permanent , but I could be wrong. None of us are experts when it comes to finding the treasure. I say, keep an open mind, and leave no stone unturned because you don’t want to get home and lose sleep because you didn’t check something .
    I wish you luck, Bur!

    • Veronica S.

      I’m with ya on the blaze being something more permanent. I too came across this tree while looking around the boulders I talked about. It just stood out in that area so I had to search around it. There are so many wonders out there when your searching sometimes you second guess your own thoughts.
      I had a perfect owl face shape in a boulder wall about thirty feet by twenty feet in one of my searches. Boy I was feeling wise then, until I sled about 75′ down the side of that mountain after I stepped on a snowy piece of grass and my feet went out from under me. Had some minor bumps and scrapes when I stopped. All I could do was lay there and laugh for a few minutes. So yes I’m a little more careful on where I put my feet now. I still smile when I think of that stupid slip-n-slide, glad no one seen me.

      Good luck,
      Bur

      • Sounds like you had quite the tumble Bur. I am glad that you were OK. Was the hill you slid down behind the burned out tree that you searcher around? Was the figure of the owl on this same hill?

        You be careful, my friend – No more casualties OK? JDA

        • JDA,

          Not the same search, that was a couple of searches before in another area. Yes, I was up at the owl face searching around then on my way down after leaving my own rock blaze to show I was there. Just in case another searcher spotted that owl face too. Lol.

          I was fine after the slip, more of a freakout then a total wipe out. I use a hiking stick now and makes sure it is set every time on down hill romp.

          Good luck,
          Bur

          • Getting to the OWL face must have been hard – YEA for you Bur. 75′ down is a LONG slide. Coming to a halt must have been like finding Indulgence – A rich reward indeed. 🙂 – I can see you laughing at yourself now – 🙂 JDA

      • I’m glad to hear you laughed at your self! Think we’ve all had a laugh at our own expense at one time or another BOTG.

  125. Bur, that’s scary! I did the same last year, I went a little too high and ended up sliding down 100 ‘ and almost kept going! its much easier to go up than down. Please , please , please searchers; don’t lose sight of what Forrest says. Don’t go anywhere a 80 year old couldn’t . It’s very easy to lose sight of this when you have BOTG. I’m glad that you are safe, Bur. Something tells me that we may have been in the same spot;)

  126. Thumbs up

    As I wash my face and get ready for the day I’m in deep contemplation about a dream that’s just beyond my grasp at the moment. Maybe it will become clear in the sunlight. I know what I must do today but I can’t help but think there is more to it than meets the eye. It’s no longer about Indulgence. I think it’s morphing into something larger than life. A ray of sunshine is peaking through that whole area. Hopefully some people will catch a glimpse before the sun sets. It’s my experience that those that have the least are the first to offer assistance.

    Do you really think it’s about Indulgence?

    “The eagle never lost so much time as when he submitted to learn of the crow”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9IfHDi-2EA
    You have done well pilgrim.
    IMO

    • The chase taught me early that my way of thinking, the very basis of my decision making, was not enough. How is it possible to think a different way? I must have a reason, and make the time to learn. That is the bigger picture.

  127. March 8th…first Grizzly Bear sighting in Yellowstone of 2019. That was a short nap.

    • Playing canasta got just really really boring.

      Plus, the in-laws invited themselves to hibernate with them this winter. That’ll drive anyone out of the den early…

  128. Crazy Notions.

    Hola amigo.

    I’m not talking about what da pink public can do.
    You would not believe me if I told you. The two stories converge and went this way and that but they ended up reaching the same area. The Egyptians had one story and the others told a similar tale. The speech was double sided. Kipling told it one way and Twain the other. The French guy stood there smiling as the Mexicans complained about the split. Sundance and Butch had enough. Redford tried to tell the story but Hollywood said no just as they said no to Billy. Who knew I would have to learn how to paddle down the rapids. If a one armed man could do the Colorado maybe I had chance.
    Gonna take a miracle to really understand what life is really about. If you understand Fenn he might lead you to something worth more than gold.
    If you were here as in the daze of old would you trust the pony express or would you wait for the telegraph poles to go up?
    Hey Baby Que Paso
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0Z1On9XIMI&list=PLPdJ7n_uM_CGjSbKFznmDlJD5HnUAdX18&index=3

  129. Blizzard here in CO is in full force, (the bomb) high winds, visibility at times 200′, at least where I’m at. Kicking back by the gas fireplace, sucking on ginger ale, stomach upset cause I can’t go out and play.

    I’m not going to play canasta, reading TTOTC, the umpteenth time. Maybe I’ll find something new.

    • I’m in the thick of it too, CharlieM! Glad that my office’s power and internet went down just before the temperatures started freezing everything solid! The interstate is closed down and they’re saying 5 more inches today! Stay warm & safe out there!

    • Yep. It hit my area a couple hours ago. Over 500 vehicles stranded so far. Gusts up to almost 100mph recorded at the COS airport. Overall accumulation isn’t all that notable yet at my house, but we haven’t had a blow like this in a good long while. Sounds like it is worse to the north.

      Good day to stay indoors with a good book, some hot coffee (with perhaps a shot or two of rum in it), and the smell of beef stew bubbling away in the cooker.

    • I hope everyone is doing okay through this storm. Looking forward to the weekend and snow melt.

      • Least ways , I hope no one is without power, 200k with no power, some won’t have power until later Thursday in the afternoon. The lights here are still flickering, I hope those will be okay tonight, it’s going to be colder with more snow this evening. I wish them the best.

        Stay warm!

        • One of my sons have been out all day, another had issues. The neighbors across the street and surrounding area is out, but they should be on for them soon. I’ve been lucky to have electricity, although about ten minutes ago there was a flicker. Stocked up on firewood in the living room yesterday in case it did. The snow drifts are steep. Already shoveled in case the neighborhood kids have to return to school tomorrow. I hope all those who are without heat will bundle up and stay as warm as possible. Just received noticed from the Emergency Communications for people to stay home so the crews can clear the roads and rescue stranded motorists. Your words, “I wish them the best,” are echoed.

  130. Sorry that this post isn’t with the comment I’m referring to, my reply option doesn’t work now, kind of funny because it was easy week when the majority of users were experiencing their problems. this comment is a continuation of the conversation where some searchers where thinking that there is only one path to the chest per forrest words. i believe this idea to be taking to much liberty with what forrest has actually said.

    The clues should be followed in order Curtis. There is no other way to my knowlege.f

    this statement could be taken as – there is only one way, to my knowledge. or it could very much imply that do to the exact nature of what we need to learn, forrest’s actual knowledge, there is only one correct way to interpret the poem and have it take you there.

  131. there is another one that he says that would seem to imply the same thing but it too, is very open ended. paraphrasing, it states that he followed the clues to the poem but he did it before the poem was complete. (completed?) That is how he actually words the ending of the phrase. most of us take that to mean that he hid the chest before he actually finished creating the poem. but that ending though, its very odd, could it be attracting attention to the fact that he did follow the last 2-3, who knows how many clues, but didn’t need to follow the complete poem to get there.

    just some food for thought

  132. Everybody stay bunkered down during the rough weather. Maybe grab yourself some hot chocolate and watch a movie about treasure hunting. I made you a list:
    – Raiders of the Lost Ark
    – Treasure of the Sierra Madre
    – Romancing the Stone
    – National Treasure
    – King Solomon’s Mines (1950)
    – Treasure Island (1950)
    – It’s a Mad Mad Mad Mad World
    – The Mummy
    – Three Kings
    – Pirates of the Caribbean
    – Time Bandits
    – Monty Python and the Holy Grail
    – Sahara
    – McKenna’s Gold

    • I’ve got it! I figured out where it is! It’s under a big “W”! A big “W”, I tell you! It’s under a big “W”!

      😉 LOL

      • Are you sure you are OK Ray? Is cabin fever getting to you?
        Don’t give up hope – Spring is on the way, and the frogs will soon be croakin’, and hoppin’ about. Hang in there Ray – JDA

        • I’ve been in the city too long. I need some pine-scented air that doesn’t come from a spray can or a little cardboard tree.

      • Ray Henry,

        That’s what I thought it was, but that’s what you get when you look at it from a satellite view. Maybe it will blend in now with all the snow. By the way it’s not under the “M”.

        Good luck,
        Bur

        • Thanks Bur – Easy to mistake an “M” for a “W” – especially if one stands on his head 🙂 JDA

        • Well, if it’s not under a W or an M, that leaves 24 letters to go. 23 if you don’t count the X, because why would anyone hide a treasure under an X? 😉

      • That’s right Ray, now all you need to do is find palm trees in the Rocky Mountains that form a W. Easy Peasy 🙂

        • Windmill palm trees can grow in cold areas that stay above 2 degrees F. That information plus $4 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

          • Yes. Palm trees can be found in the Rocky Mountains. But I don’t see any sign of palm trees in the poem. So label this a rabbit hole and move on.

    • National Treasure has my vote.
      The Da Vinci Code has to be included on this list in my opinion.
      Ever have a close look at the last supper painting by Da Vinci. Can you see the extra hand with the knife?

    • Life of Brian

      “What’d he say?”

      “I think it was ‘blessed are the cheesemakers’. “

    • My vote is for “Indiana Jones & the Last Crusade” over “Raiders” as the most appropriate treasure hunt movie for Chasers. Finding the starting point for the path to the treasure seems to be the biggest sticking point there and here.

      Interestingly enough, I have heard the idea that one of the problems with “Raiders of the Lost Ark” is that nothing that Indiana Jones did in that movie really mattered. If he had just sit back and let Belloch and the nazis take the Ark to the island, open it up, and (spoiler alert for a 1981 movie) get devoured by angry ghosts, the main plot line would have turned out essentially the same. After giving that some thought, I can’t say I disagree with that idea!

      • I like all of the Indiana Jones movies (even the Shia LaBeouf one).
        Interesting that Fenn chose to use this quote from Last Crusade:
        “All I know are the facts, if you want the truth go next door to the psychology department.f”

        Also what about “The Goonies”?

  133. I put my pants on one leg at a time. Then I drop knee deep into a rabbit hole. Hare did this.

      • I’m sorry I do not understand. Who is Donnie Darko? Would you be so kind to explain, please?

        • Hey-O, pd –

          ‘Donnie Darko’ is a 2001 movie about going down a rabbit hole.

          Your line sounded a little like it might have been quoted from that movie, in response to EazyPy’s mentioning ‘rabbit hole.’

          I guess not.

          Jake

  134. If PI is an infinite number and there is no exact correlation between the circumference and the diameter of a circle, does that mean that the circle is never ending, or beginning.
    I think a piece of pineapple pie might taste better.
    I wonder if Mr. Fenn would agree.
    Grasshopper

    • The circle tells us things.
      It’s mathematical relationship of diameter and circumference is not exact.
      Yet……it’s line is exactly continuous.
      Man’s attempt to explain the natural world is never-ending.
      Just like the circle.

      • Joe
        Your explanation of the circle helps me realize why I always get the smallest slice of pizza. Or maybe I’m just to patient and get there last. More or less it’still taste (GREAT).

        That explanation could work in a classroom
        of children.

        I just read that Deepthinker is on his or her way Sunday for the recovery. I wish them luck for it is after all leprechaun day. Beware though for he is a tricky little rascal.

        Grasshopper

      • Hey Joe
        “The River is part of the great circle of life Grandfather” Little Big Man
        Gotta catch a pony and ride. My brother might be kneading that bannock without the baking powder.
        It’s just a hard biscuit if you don’t add the powder to make it rise and shine.
        Grasshopper
        Order the pizza after everyone’s eaten and had their Phil.
        If you can grub this edible from my right hand?

          • Someone told me that a “Hard Biscuit” was also a “Cow Pie” – Don’t think I would want to eat that 🙂 JDA

          • Oh my goodness! I’ve never heard of them being called that before! No, I wouldn’t want to eat one of them either! (Giggle.) Are there foods in the military known as hardtack, JDA?

          • JDA, the other day a discussion about confidence was posted by searchers and noticed that “tack” can also mean “confidence”. While looking at the different meanings, “stain” has been mentioned about his pants. There’s also a suggestion from the scrapbook of Mr. Fenn tasting the spices and how peculiar of a taste some had. May not mean anything, but it caught my eye.

            https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tack

          • pd

            In the old “C-Rations” (Today known as MRE’s – Meals ready to eat) there were cans of hard biscuits – hardtack.

            . Basically, hardtack is a hard cracker made from flour, salt, and water. The great thing about hardtack is that as long as you keep it dry, it will last for years. It will even last through temperature extremes.

            Because it’s inexpensive to make and lasts so long, it was once taken on long sea voyages and was called things like pilot bread, cabin bread, ship biscuit, sea biscuit, or sea bread. It was also carried by soldiers on long military campaigns and was referred to as tooth dullers, molar breakers, or sheet iron. – JDA

          • Thank you for the information, JDA. I greatly appreciate it. Those things don’t sound very appealing, but can certainly understand its importance.

          • JDA,

            The biscuits in the C-rations where called bricks, at least for the guys I was with, also the round chocolate was called pucks, as in hockey pucks, and spam was referred to as salt peter, to this day I still eat spam, its just an acquired taste. There was always trading going on when it came time to eat.

          • Hello CharlieM. You mentioned items were traded during the time you served. I realize each person had their preference of what they would trade for, but I’d like to know what you witnessed was the popular item sought, please. I sit here and think of how Mr. Fenn mentioned he lost 22 lbs. and didn’t realize he did. I’m sure it was due to being active during the missions he served, but the rations didn’t seem to help either.

          • pd;

            Most wanted items – cigarettes (For those that smoked) – Chocolate by all, and if I remember right peaches and fruit cocktail. – It has been a while – JDA

          • Lucky Strike, Phillip Morris, Camels, Winston and Pall Malls – Now that is going back a ways – nine cigarettes to a pack or three little boxes with three each if I remember correctly – JDA

          • pdenver,

            The most things that was traded were the cigarettes, canned stew, spam and the chocolate. The canned stew was called lard, because of the grease.

            I don’t know about JDA, we could never heat things up while doing forward recon and we would bury only the boxes and some wrappers, all else was carried out and the most common cans that were not touched was the beef stew (lard), and the biscuits because they were very dry.

          • This is quite interesting, JDA and CharlieM. Were rations handed out every day, or were they handed out once a week? It seemed as everyone had to have stomachs made of steel to eat some of what was described, or eat what was offered or go hungry. I’m sure it was better than eating what was found under a log.

          • pdenver,

            For me you just grabbed boxes before going into the field. At base camp the food was pretty good, no C rations, and lots of beer.

          • Hello CharlieM. I’m glad to learn all wasn’t too bad where food was concerned. The kinship and beer must have made things bearable while being away from home. If you don’t mind me asking, how often did you and others get mail? I would think they were something really important to get.

          • pdenver, sorry I missed your last post.
            Mail was most appreciated, mail call was every day except when out in the field, when back in many letters for some and others it was once in awhile I always got the home town paper as well. We were a tight bunch of guys.

          • Hello CharlieM. I’m glad you were able to get a touch of home from so far away. Your family away from family sounds like they were great.

            I wish to thank you and JDA very much for answering my questions today. It helped me to learn more from the eyes of those whom have experienced these things rather than just reading it through an encyclopedia.

          • If I may add, I’d like to learn more from Mr. Fenn in regards to the things we spoke about today. I think it would be great to learn these things through his eyes. I remember a while back hearing an audio or two from which he was corresponding to one of his friends who I believe was from home in Texas. Just listening to it/them was great. It was like a letter written from him in which we could hear. I don’t recall if I saved them. I hope Dal has them in his collection on the Media Page. I tried to imagine him sitting there in his hooch and answering his friend’s letter via the recording. His voice was younger, and his warm personality shown through. It was nice hearing this time period of his life.

    • pi is not infinite. It is finite. It has an infinite amount of decimal digits. Since only an approximation can be made, and there is no exact correlation between the circumference and the diameter, that means a circle is always a circle, without a beginning and without an end.
      Can you end where you started from, exactly?
      Is God “all powerful”? Could he/she create a rock that he/she could not lift?
      Paradox’s will get you nowhere, and everywhere…

  135. E.C. I think we have talked about this before but Fenrir did it tyred and now he’s weak. Or week..Tyr is related to Tuesday (off the top of my head). Love convoluting Norse mythology. Thor is in all of this somewhere. And Freya. Thursday and Friday. Get set, check your postmarks.

    • Sandy, you forgot tea and arrows, and in the case of the quote, an actor named Ford. As time rolls on and dates get bigger, and as a general rule of thumb, he seems more fond of using multi-reference sentences to make his points. (There. I can do it now, too.)

      Maybe I’ll see you at the rocks and walls collecting inscriptions leading us to the thirl, maybe not. Maybe this is why Nelika won’t get closer than the first two clues while sitting in India.

        • Just “expressing” some thoughts in the spirit of Brotherly Philately. Most couldn’t give peel what I chisel out here.

          • Learning is fun for some. Any part of some is better than no part of any.

            Does that mean Dr Tyree is “sinister”? And why does Dr. Pepper not have punctuation in real life? No need to respond.

          • That’s one of those ff quotes that probably sounded better in his head before he said it out loud.

            Which would you rather have –

            Any part of something?
            Some part of anything?

            Which would be worse to end up with –

            No part of something?
            No part of anything?

            Which simpler, everyday saying was he trying to obfuscate into a proverb –

            Anything’s better than nothing?
            Something’s better than nothing?

            What difference does it make –

            Any?
            Some?
            None?

          • In my opinion, he was teaching us how to interpret his words. Like Dr. Tyree could be Tyr. Like me all could be meall. Like Sloane could be slon. Like Satchel Paige could be Stachel. And so on.

          • I’ve been at this for a while now. Here’s some fun examples I ran across several weeks ago while I was thinking about trails.

            In this post:
            https://dalneitzel.com/2014/07/12/scrapbook-eighty-three/

            Mike Kammerer (RIP) is a little bit like Kemmerer, WY. I mean, if you really stretch your imagination you can almost see it.

            In this post:
            https://dalneitzel.com/2018/09/26/scrapbook-one-hundred-ninety/

            Forrest calls out J.C. Penney sheets. Why did he misspell it?
            Oh, plus, J.C. Penney was started in Kemmerer, WY. But that’s not really important. Nothing is worse than facts written wrong.

          • And then this one probably goes a little over the border of now just being annoying. Or maybe the drawing endeavors are spiraling out of control (to the left).

            J.J. Shay scrawled their name into a wall in 1825, followed in 1832 by someone named Twig, then again in 1844 by Jim Bridger.

            That’s kind of funny to me. Someone named Shay chasing their name into a wall seems a little redundant. Wouldn’t you agree? That’s almost like saying “The End of The End”. Or, maybe you’d rather just play Canasta with brown stained biritches in Gallatin. I don’t know.

  136. Here’s something to ponder. Perhaps f will comment on it.

    You will taste a bit if of Canada on your way to the treasure. My humble opinion.

    • EasyPeasy, it sounds like you may be interested in the Waterton Lakes/GNP area? But wouldn’t an 80-year-old man need to take a ferry ride in that region? Would 2 two-way ferry rides work within the confines of 2 trips from his car & back in a single afternoon? I’d be interested if you could make it work out, but to me it seemed like running into a wall.

    • If you can pile up enough of those fortune cookies of yours, EazyPie, I bet you’ll end up with a big pile of them.

    • Bob Millerhttps://www.google.com/maps/place/Ireland/@55.9376895,-19.9852365,120558m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x485e619e5d73698f:0xca9b39444d6ac68d!8m2!3d53.1423672!4d-7.6920536 on said:

      https://goo.gl/maps/fYsFPk5iaWQ2

      or, maybe it’s a big face on a cliff….

  137. Doesn’t ring a bell for me EZ. I don’t see the correlate. The next time ff makes a public comment about the chase will be to announce the tc has been found imo.

  138. Today is Pi day. And it is also Albert Einstein’s birthday. And yes, both are tied to the Chase. My opinion. I am celebrating with a couple slices of pepperoni pizza for lunch. Your response may vary.

  139. Somebody say PIZZA? Got some yesterday and planning on cold left-overs today! No black olives for me – I hate those things.

  140. Easy.
    You been hitten the sauce a little hard pizza day was yesterday. Don’t worry you can catch up a day.
    Don’t go to bed

  141. Hi All;

    I have been on the search for about 40 months. In all of that time, I have heard a few mentioning “Solving the riddle.” I have a couple of questions. 1) How many of you think that there IS a riddle associated with the “Solve”? 2) Is the poem itself the riddle, or is there an actual riddle that relates to the poem. 3) Do any of you have any ideas as to what the riddle might be, if it is not the poem itself.

    I personally believe that there IS a riddle that is separate from the poem itself. This riddle may be embedded in a small part of the poem, but is not the poem itself – in total.

    What do you guys think? I will be anxious to hear what you guys and gals have to say. JDA

        • JDA,

          The only part of the poem that is a riddle is wwwh, everything else is straight forward. I don’t think all of the poem is a riddle. If there was more riddles in the poem, I feel F would have said riddles if there were more. The operative word is “the” riddle, meaning one.

          Just Say’n

          • Please read my posts again CharlieM – I do not believe I used a plural – but I could be wrong 🙂 JDA

          • JDA,

            Please slow down when reading, I wasn’t referring to you as saying riddles, It was only a thought that I was sharing.

          • Sorry if I misread – you addressed it to “JDA” so I thought that you were saying that I had said Riddles – JDA

          • JDA,

            Thanks, I was merely answering your original question and added with another thought. I’m not always going after your thoughts. 🙂

      • imho figuring out what “it” is, is the actual riddle. i like forrest quotes myself but pdenver did the work for me and provided the perfect quote where forrest himself defines that riddle to a t.

    • “Riddle” – “a question or statement intentionally phrased so as to require ingenuity in ascertaining its answer or meaning, typically presented as a game.”

      Assuming my current solve is the correct solve (which is really all I have to go on) I do not find a separate riddle in the poem distinct from the broader concept of solving the poem, and unlocking each of the nine clues.

      • Forrest says you have to solve a riddle. But he never said that getting the answer to that riddle was all you need to find the treasure. If you think that’s the case, you’re logic is faulty. My opinion. That’s just one little step in a million.

    • Well JDA:

      If you define a riddle this way…

      “A riddle is a statement or question or phrase having a double or veiled meaning, put forth as a puzzle to be solved.” Wikipedia

      ….then I count at least 14 of them.

      BTW…Dal has me locked up behind bars. He offered to let me out on personal recognize…but I couldn’t guarantee him of that.

      1F

    • EP;

      What question? – THAT is the question. The only question in the poem is: “So why is it that I must go And leave my trove for all to seek?” That does not sound like a riddle to me. – Just sayin’ JDA

      • That’s just one reason you haven’t found the treasure. But you gotta start somewhere and eventually you will have to answer the question. Try it. Maybe it’s easier than you think. Whatever your current strategy is it doesn’t seem to be working.

  142. Until you’ve actually done something, you’re not even in this war, let alone in this room.
    – FLYBOYS, Cassidy (James Franco)

    Until you’ve actually figured out the first few clues, there’s no reason to believe you’re even in the right state, let alone in the Chase.
    – TTOTC, Easy Peasy (Iceman)

  143. Dal,

    That slide-out add video from the right gets to be pretty annoying, when reading the posts, frankly it’s getting old real quick having to close it every time. I have no problems with the other adds. Any help?

    • Hi CharlieM
      Hey I have a apple I pad and don’t get a lot of those pop up .I use to have a computer it would lock up all the time all kinds of problems.i love this Apple iPad and fast.

        • Hey Sherif
          Are you still in the Cooler?I can see why I will need gloves TC is under 50 to 75 inches of
          White stuf melt melt go away come next year.

        • Hey Sheif Billy
          Where you going to be looking come break up if I my be so bold.Hows Deputy doing?

          • Mr. Clint-

            We’re looking under the snow in the mountains West of Kansas. A place where there are more purple columbine than I have ever seen before. Now far from where I crashed and burned and arose from the ashes…How about you?

            I think the bad Jujus may have past…everyone in my posse is on the mend. Thanks for asking….

            1F

        • SHERIF SHERIF BILLY
          Wake up boy grab your socks and let go of your —–will you know what the rest
          Clint

          • Ho Yea
            Those were the days when the Drill Instructor was the alarm clock he would
            grab the trash can and beat it with night stick in the barracks Marine Crop
            Oorah.

      • Clint,

        Yes, I have an iPad, no problems with the adds. There’s a lot more you can do on a computer when it comes to text editing on the blog, besides there is no battery to worry about among other things. I can go on and on about iPad vs computer, but I won’t

    • Nice video Allen.
      Clearly there is a connection but I don’t think it has anything to do with where the treasure is hidden. Obviously Eric had a humungus influence on Fenn and it shows.
      I think there is insight in those books on how words and pics are used by them and the “heavy loads” points to wood again.
      It’s funny how you can make many connections to all the connections.
      Thanks for sharing.

    • Nice, Allen. Thanks for sharing your research and thoughts.

      As of late my mind has been meditating on the idea that the chest rests inside of an old dead tree, so it was fun to see your research and come up with that idea as well.

      When I started my own chase, I did some internet sleuthing on Eric Sloane’s paintings. While a lot of them are barns and such – not really my style – I landed on one of a scraggly tree in the fall/wintertime that I really love. I saved the image and it has been my lock screen page for over a year now – maybe I was hoping it would bring me luck.

    • I really liked this video. There are references I didn’t know existed. Thank you for putting this together. One could draw a conclusion that Eric Sloane was somehow involved in helping Forrest devise all of this. Two people can keep a secret…

    • Allen,

      Nice video trying to connect ES. Now where is all that straw? I think the straw is in a rabbit hole.

      Again nice video.

    • Nice video Allen..thanks for sharing…
      Did you think the connection in A Reverence for Wood, was the “seek no further tree” ? A fitting end to the chase, don’t you think..

    • I enjoyed the video, Allen K. It was great to take a peek into Mr. Sloane’s books you provided.

  144. @EaglesAbound – I’ve searched for Apple trees in Yellowstone for that very reason. But alas, I only stepped in a few pies :/

  145. Hi All:

    Well, it is that time of year again. Time for me to step away from the chase for a month or two. Being retired, I have little else to do other than immersing myself in the Chase, but about this time every year, it all becomes just a bit much, and II step away for a short break, to let the cobwebs air out a bit.

    I will probably monitor the blog, just to keep up with my friends here. I will just not post for a bit.

    Take care all, have fun, and above all, TRY and STAY SAFE – JDA

    • Hello JDA. Enjoy the peace and quiet of the mind. Looking forward to your return. Thank you for your thoughtful posts. I enjoyed reading them.

    • In his ‘last’ six questions, f said he was stepping away from the computer, blah, blah, blah.

      and then he posted another Scrapbook.

      I see the same ‘step away’ for JDA. What’s the over/under on days before we see his next post?

      • Hello aardvarkbark. Is there a specific time period where one should be away when they say they will? Mr. Fenn’s last post was Feb. 4 before the recent scrapbook. That is a time span which one could say they were away. I thought it was nice that Mr. Fenn shared a story with us. He didn’t have to, but he did and I greatly appreciate it. JDA’s posts will be missed while he’s away for whatever “his” away time he chooses.

    • Hi JDA
      Sir get out side and do some short walks if you can, that fresh
      air will do a lot good Clint

  146. Hey JDA. Everybody needs a beak now and then. My suggestion bro. Fly in bro Miami. Rent a BMW convertible. Drive to Key West with the top down, the sun and ocean spray in your face. Pick up a couple girls along the way. And party like it’s 1999. Or you can just stay home, walk the dog and read the blogs. Both good choices.

  147. EasyPeasy, your message got me thinking about . . .
    Daffy Duck? Naah . . .
    Dizzy Dean? Naah . . .
    Daniel Defoe? That’s it! I guess it was your recurring mention, don’tcha know.

    Two can keep a secret if both of them are able to keep a secret. I guess I’ll watch an old
    episode of Ironhorse, I mean Ironside. Or not. (I’m just lettin’ off steam. Or not.)

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