Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Seventy Nine

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Please click on the comment balloon below to contribute to the discussion of  Forrest Fenn’s Treasure Hunt. Please note that many topics have their own pages. Please scroll through the blog to see all the discussion pages. There are also stories, scrapbooks, searcher’s reports general information, tips from Forrest, a rumors blog and even email responses from Forrest. So please look around and if you want to make a comment please use the most appropriate page.

Thanks…

 

dal…

628 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Seventy Nine

  1. Please use other more specific discussion pages when they exist…such as The Blaze, The Poem, The Nine Clues, Where Warm Waters Halt…etc…this page is only for topics not covered by other pages…you can see all the discussion pages by clicking on Searcher’s Discussions, below the ad…on the right hand side…

  2. It’s always interesting how this “odds n’ ends” thread fills up faster than any others on this site. I think that a big part of the reason why is that no one is sure where a post on a specific topic may jump over to once the stream of conversation gets going. One of the cool things about Forrest’s riddle is that no matter how far off into the weeds different people’s thoughts seem to stretch in search of a solution, all of the information stays tied together with the Chase at its center.

    Anyways, another cyclone bomb is forecast for tomorrow stretching thaw season in the Rockies even further out this season. I’m hoping this one is a dud and we can get into BOTG season sooner rather than later, but we’ll see.

  3. Hi everyone, just a quick update on the site. Looks like the caching plugin W3 Total Cache was causing an issue that was resulting in the site to just download instead of open like a normal website. I’m trying some other caching plugins out, but there might be issues with the comments showing up instantly on them (I’m just not sure yet). 90% sure it’ll work fine, but just wanted to let you know ahead of time.

    • Thanks Chris for your efforts in keeping things running smoothly. Now I can get back to my desktop computer to see all clearly.

  4. Thank you so much Dal and Chris! You both do a great service to all us chasers!

  5. I have the PERFECT idea for a contest.

    We all submit GPS coordinates, to a T, defining where we think the treasure is located and the person who is closest to the treasure wins.

    Sounds fair and reasonable to me.

  6. Jake F., I’m replying to your post in the blaze part 6 on 4-9-19 @5:21pm. If you are Really confident in your solve, you don’t put it out there for all to consider. IMO, It’s best to be wise at this stage in the game. Good luck in the Gallatin. I considered that area long ago.

  7. Does anyone besides me feel like they are in the Twilight Zone???
    People come and then they go around here.
    Comments appear and then they disappear.
    I’m beginning to think that I am going plum crazy.
    I wonder if there is a “hotline” that I can call…………….

    • wwwamericana – Have you tried the previous Odds and Ends thread, now located over on the archives? Comments are closed, but you could continue discussions you were having here on the new thread.

  8. So I recently re-read this MW Q&A that Forrest gave from June 29th, 2014. It seems to be one of the only questions where “marvel gaze” was specifically included as a part of the question:

    Uncle Ferguson asks: “Is the chest actually/directly visible when you “look quickly down with “marvel gaze”, or is it camouflaged in some interesting way? Also; you show a penchant for stretching the rules in some of your TTOTC stories – is this what’s meant by ‘no place for the meek/brave/bold’ — should we prepare to risk some authoritarian’s wrath in our hunt ?”

    And Forrest answers: OK

    I really like Forrest’s answer to this question. A simple two letter response ….. OK.

    To me, his answer seems to allude to the likelihood that nearly everything, as presented and asked in this question, is basically incorrect. But, what about the part of the question that asks if it (the chest) “is camouflaged in some interesting way”? Is Forrest’s simple answer a nod to the affirmative?

    Like, how else was he supposed to answer this one?

    Anyways, I’ll ask, do any other Q&A’s, SB’s, etc., specifically mentioning “marvel gaze”, come to mind? I’m not finding much.

    Thanks in advance,
    All IMO,
    SRW

    • SRW, that’s hard to tell. If nothing in that question had anything to do with Oklahoma then the term means approval.

      Never seen anything about ‘marvel gaze’ anywhere. Being that at this point in the poem this line should be within the last 3 clues, one should be pretty close to the chest it seems. Don’t they mean what they say?

      • oz10: “Never seen anything about ‘marvel gaze’ anywhere. Being that at this point in the poem this line should be within the last 3 clues, one should be pretty close to the chest it seems. Don’t they mean what they say?”

        LOL ….. Yep, that’s pretty much what I’m thinking.

        Thanks,
        SRW

        • Hi Lisa,

          I don’t think the little girl from India can get any closer than the first two clues for a very different reason ….. a much earlier reason.

          And I haven’t yet stumbled across a Wizard connection that is even remotely related to my solve. I sure hope I don’t find one because I don’t even wanna have to follow that yellow brick road to anywhere. LOL.

          Anyways, just having some fun. Best of luck to you!

          All IMO,
          SRW

          • Hi oz10,

            My response above was in reply to Lisa C.,

            Looks like her post got blown away. I don’t see it anymore. Weird?

            SRW

          • SRW and oz10 – In response to my most fun posts disappearing, I have decided to heretofore be solemn and boring, nay, even staid in all future posts.

            Or, perhaps I will take a vow of silence instead. Yeah, that’s what I’ll do….

          • Lisa C. 4-11-19@9:28. When you retrieve the TC, I’ll be all ears. Until then, NOT!!! as you say. Ok Dal, I’m ready.

          • Hi Lisa C.,

            I’m not looking in Yellowstone. Nothing in the poem has led me there. (IMO).

            The only color I’m looking for is Brown. And here’s to hoping I won’t have to find a rainbow blaze. I’ll probably never find one of those.

            Good luck in your search,
            SRW

          • SRW – Thank you for your Indulgence. The colors I am looking for are the Bronze chest and the GOLD inside.

            It is a pleasure to converse with all the fun, positive Searchers here. After all, what is a treasure hunt blog for?

          • Afana – You wrote:

            “I’ll be all ears.”

            https://www.mytopo.com/maps/?lat=44.9027&lon=-111.2839&z=16

            Change the map to Satellite view in the menu on the upper left of that map. Those two EARs with the words Cabin Creek next to them are size proportionate to my Olmec mask-like face with the ridgeline Cartouche blaze on it, which is missing those.

            So hear me all and listen good,
            Your effort will be worth the cold.

            Perhaps the EARs a place to blaze or Ford the creek?

            And you are reading this, aren’t you? Giggles.

          • Finder – You wrote:

            “I believe she can get to 8 without BOTG.”

            Agreed.

            I believe these two lines in the Poem correspond to clues 8 and 9:

            If you are brave and in the wood,
            I give you title to the gold.

            Forrest has said the title of the Poem is, ‘Where the Treasure Lies”.

            I have to cross the creek and proceed up a Spring Creek, off the human trail, about 200 ft. up into the forest, to reach my hidey spot. That flat area perfect for camping is located below my star blaze on the ridgeline above. So, my clue 7 is:

            Your effort will be worth the cold.

            Ok, where’s My Grizz???

          • Lisa;

            Please show me where Forrest ever said that the name of the poem is “Where the treasure lies.” To the best of my knowledge, Forrest has said that he did not name the poem – Thanks – JDA

          • Lisa:
            I believe blaze comes first, then effort worth cold, then brave and in the wood, in that particular order. Your place in forest sounds nice.
            Finder

          • Finder – I agree that the blaze comes first in the sequential clue order. But I believe there are several potential blazes that work (map locations, markers or actions, ie. creek crossings or actual trails), depending on each Searcher’s individual solve. And whether they are using a good map or TTOTC book combined with the Poem.

          • Lisa;

            I think that if you check – “Forrest Gets Mail From a Middle School” – found on this blog you will find the following:

            “Did you name the poem The Thrill of the Chase?
            No. I forgot to name it.”

            Just thought you might like to know – Thanks – JDA

  9. ” But tarry scant with marvel gaze. ”
    In my mind, this is telling me not to sit there for more than a few minutes
    looking at the chest and its contents. ” If you are brave and in the wood. ”
    Has a suggestive nature that points toward why one might not want to tarry scant.

    Time for a hand of canasta.

    • LOL High Desert Drifter.

      I’ve been contemplating with marvel gaze too.

      Deal me in!

      Good luck,
      SRW

      • Marvel Gaze IMMHO……. FF placed a time capsule of sort at his hidey spot when he was young. He placed his favorite comic book with name address and phone number and left it to be found. It never was, and it lays there still, right by the chest. It was a test of time and it reaffirmed why there was never any doubt as to where he would secret the treasure. So waste no time with the comic book, just take the chest and go in peace.
        Again, my most humble opinion…..but we shall see.

        • Hi SanJuanMan,

          That’s a great interpretation of marvel gaze. I guess that could help to explain when, where and why Forrest might have chosen this special spot to hide his chest.

          Do you think “marvel gaze” is one of the 9 clues? It’s one of mine (IMO).

          Good Luck,
          SRW

          • SRW,
            Sure I think it is one of the clues. I just think its one of the clues that you cannot solve until you get right to the end of the chase. Its all about assumption so mine is as good as the next guys, or gals, until proven otherwise.
            Good Luck to all..
            SJM

          • SanJuanMountain,

            You said: SRW, Sure I think it is one of the clues. I just think its one of the clues that you cannot solve until you get right to the end of the chase. Its all about assumption so mine is as good as the next guys, or gals, until proven otherwise.
            Good Luck to all.. SJM.

            I totally agree (IMO).

            Happy Trails!
            SRW

        • SanJuanMan – Wow! Do you think the Marvel comic book is about The Phantom??? What special powers did that character have? And weren’t there SKULLS involved?

          See also: that scene from that Shakespeare play and Poe’s famous treasure hunt, called, “The Gold Bug”.

          • E.C. Waters – And Horatio recognized poor Yorik to be the King’s Court Jester. William Sommers was probably the person Shakespeare based this character upon. He was the Court Jester in the time of King Henry VIII and QE1. He was the smartest banana in the bunch, but used humour to keep his head.

            He was the Joker. See also: the French trump card. The wild card.

            “Life is a game of poker, Happiness is the pot. Fate deals you four cards and a joker, And you play whether you like it or not.” – Forrest Fenn (TTOTC)

        • I’m In the comic book line of thought like everything else, there is probably more meaning to “marvel gaze” as well.

        • SanJuanMan – I’ve wondered about a possible comic book connection as well. Forrest has talked quite a bit about various ones here and there. He’s mentioned “Out our way” and “Bull of the Woods” in addition to the early Marvel comics. Also “Red Ryder”.

          He mentions that Captain America and Sub-Mariner were his favorite superheroes, but funny enough the 3rd major superhero that Marvel published in its early years at the same time of both of these was the Human Torch (not to be confused with the later version of Human Torch in Fantastic Four) who most clearly ties into the idea of a “blaze”.

          I’ve run across several geographic locations in the Rockies named “Bull of the Woods”; one that I can remember offhand is the name of a trail at the base of Wheeler Peak in New Mexico. I believe that there is at least a mountain and a creek with that name elsewhere.

          Another old comic strip that I do not recall Forrest ever mentioning himself, but would have been popular during his youth is “Mutt & Jeff”. This was apparently the first newspaper comic to use the 3-panel strip layout. There are several instances in the Rockies where there is a pair of lakes named “Mutt” and “Jeff” that do not readily appear on GoogleEarth.

          That’s about all I’ve been able to come up with on the comic book angle so far.

          • If Fenn had only read ‘funny books’ up to (and even well after) his pre-teen years as stated in scrapook 82 then he would have never heard of Marvel comics. The name of that publisher was not changed to Marvel until 1961.

        • Nice one SJM… a paper comic would have disintegrated and blown away by now… but it might be in a broken old tin fishing box.

    • Hi MM,

      It could mean to look toward the HOB. But that doesn’t work where I’m looking. My HOB cannot be seen from my “marvel gaze”. Then again, my location could be entirely wrong and maybe you are supposed to look back toward HOB. So many ways to interpret the poem!

      LOL….. I’m probably not even looking in the right state.

      Good luck MM,
      SRW

    • MM,

      From what I see you are higher then hoB in that part of the poem but a distance of about mile and a little bit. So to me your marvel gaze, as you say, in that direction could be a possible. I think the “marvel gaze” that Forrest is referring to, is when you open the chest and see what’s inside that bronze box. But both should be quite a sight and have your heart pumping.

      Good luck,
      Bur

  10. Hey there JDA.

    Just above you said “Lisa; I think that if you check – “Forrest Gets Mail From a Middle School” – found on this blog you will find the following: “Did you name the poem The Thrill of the Chase?
    No. I forgot to name it.””

    Even though this title did not come from Forrest’s mouth, the poem was introduced by Dan Olsen at an MPR interview with Forrest and it is interesting to note that he was not corrected by Forrest. That is, that he never gave the poem a name/title.

    Here’s the link; https://www.mprnews.org/story/2014/12/22/a-beautiful-world-fenn

    Take care……….. pinatubocharlie

  11. Thanks SRW. My reply button doesn’t work so I’ll post here. I can’t see my hoB from my “marvel gaze” either. I was thinking more like drawing a line from my “marvel gaze” to my hoB.

    • Hi MM,

      Sure, you could connect the two. But what about the info in between? Would you somehow connect those too?

      But in connecting HOB and “marvel gaze”, does that result in you having to backtrack?

      Or, by connecting the lines your looking for the proverbial “x” marks the spot?

      I don’t have any backtracking at my spot. And I haven’t come across anything in the poem yet that might suggest a “go back” kind of clue. Are you seeing a “go back” kind of clue? I sure hope not cause that would pretty much shatter my solve! LOL.

      All IMO,
      SRW

      • SRW,
        Just heavy loads and water high – suggests the treasure and blaze are not there as “just” may mean “only”.
        Then the poem says:
        If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
        It does not say – If you ARE wise and FIND the blaze,
        Past tense suggests you have passed or gone by the blaze and treasure physically and/or in the poem and that may explain the ones that went/walked by it.

        I think you need to go up your creek to see if there is heavy loads and water high to help confirm your creek but then you need to backtrack to figure out where the blaze could have been.

        • Hi Jake,

          I see what your saying and I can see how a searcher might have to backtrack to look for the blaze, assuming they missed it the first time through.

          But I’ve got a few new thoughts about the blaze. It’s been a long winter. Lots of time to think. No backtracking for me. (IMO).

          Thanks Jake,
          SRW

          • Yup,
            We all got own game going on and best to follow your own thoughts and dreams. we had the discussion many times here about why the past tense in that line of the poem where the blaze is and we do know the blaze is a clue from one of his interviews. Just makes sense the treasure and blaze is not where heavy loads and water high is.
            Enjoy the Chase. 〽

        • Jake, I see how your interpretation can be made. I read it as “If you HAVE BEEN wise….”, then you you can “look down”. I think they both work.

          • So maybe “If you have been wise” means that you needed to be wise in the past to find all the other clues and then find the blaze? I’ll buy that one as well.
            I’m tweaking my way of thinking that the 8th clue may be “wise” or “If you have been wise” and how that would give directions or more likely a place or spot or action like “Put in”.

          • Jake,

            I like this “wise” comment as referring to the “put in” place. You just might have something there.
            The reason I say that is others have been out to the area I search but looking at their solves they went past my “put in” location and they put in way past, in different locations altogether.

            So what you said about being wise in direction or a action clue solve would work for me.
            But seeing the blaze before even reaching the “water high” let’s say right at that put in place, works also.

            Thanks for the idea.
            Bur

          • Glad I could help Bur.
            I’m just tossing things around that may work and I do like the process of trying to figure out what it isn’t first.

            The reason behind my slightly different thinking is because I didn’t find a suitable blaze at JHLAWH, and then thought about the past tense words in IYBWAFTB seems to point back in the past and then I finally looked up the meaning of one word near my area that I traveled into to get to JHLAWH and it means “Old/wise ruler”. It is on the Gallatin National Forest map but not on G maps or GE but you can see the area, so it may be a bust. Go figure.

      • SanJuanMan – I like that Captain America was frozen for 70 years after WWII and came back = worth the cold. And the Airforce symbol is that same White star on his chest:

        KNOWN SUPERHUMAN POWERS: Captain America has agility, strength, speed, endurance, and reaction time superior to any Olympic athlete who ever competed. The Super-Soldier formula that he has metabolized has enhanced all of his bodily functions to the peak of human efficiency.

      • SanJuanMan – What was that story Forrest wrote with the Phantom in it? Didn’t he say something like, only the Phantom knows, in that?:

        The present Phantom is the 21st in the line. Unlike most costumed heroes, he has no superhuman powers, relying only on his wits, physical strength, skill with his weapons, and fearsome reputation to fight crime. His real name is Kit Walker. References to “Mr. Walker” are in the strip often accompanied by a footnote saying “For ‘The Ghost Who Walks'”, although some versions of the Phantom’s history suggest that Walker was actually the original surname of the man who became the first Phantom.

        Ok, is this Too Far to Walk for you? Only the Shadow knows.

        • Originally I was going to use “Phantom” for my name on this website, but FF kept talking about the finder, and that’s who I wanted to be. It’s not enough to know.

    • Gottchya, MM.

      I’ve tried the same thing to no avail. Maybe that’s not what that means?

      IMO,
      SRW

  12. Thanks Bur.
    The particular “marvel gaze” I was referring to is actually closer than a mile.
    Maybe you’re right. The “marvel gaze” is when you open the chest and your heart is pumping. If that’s the case then would it make LQDYQTC the 9th clue?

    • MM,

      “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, Look quickly down your quest to cease,”

      This would be my ninth clue solve, but yours might be different. Other searchers have other ideas too.

      Bur

  13. Hi Lisa,

    Funny story: The ice cubes in my freezer are worth the cold. LOL.

    But seriously, about the Chase. Do you think that Forrest’s poem is really that elaborate? I see it so differently. Intellectually speaking you seem super knowledgeable and that’s great but I can’t help but wonder if some of the Shakespeare, Hamlet and Poe types of references don’t fall into a “specialized knowledge” or “higher education” kind of category. I mean, a person is either into that kind of stuff, or they’re not.

    Anyways, Forrest said that he wrote the poem for the redneck guy in Texas with his boatload of kids and his beat-up old truck. He also said that the poem is straightforward, with no trickery or subterfuge in sight, etc. It makes me wonder how up to speed the redneck guy is with the upper echelon of Historical Literature, Poetry and the Fine Arts.

    Anyways, just wanted to throw that out there. If your solve is correct I hope you do find it. If this is how Forrest really intended the poem to be interpreted and solved I’ll be the first to admit it: I will never find that chest. Makes my head hurt just thinking about it. LOL.

    All IMO,
    Good luck on your search,
    SRW

  14. SRW,

    Watch it, some don’t like the attacks on the elusive unsophisticated rednecks. lol…

  15. Bur,

    I’ve thought about “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, Look quickly down your quest to cease” being the 9th clue. So what do you think is more important, wise or the blaze?

    • MM,

      Both. I posted a little time back on the “wise” part. To me now it is referring to seeing the blaze before hand and not realizing it, because you haven’t made it to npuyc or heavy loads or water high. But when you get to water high you see it and realize you had seen it before. That’s one of my ideas for the blaze. I have a couple, well two.
      What is your idea?

      Bur

    • Trust me, You don’t want to take it. The return bus time of pick up is like 1:00am in the middle of all places closed and you stand outside waiting. I froze my azz off and said I’ll never do that again. LOL

      Bur

          • I’m going along peacefully but….well, yes he is. I think he wants to make sure I get there.

            That is unless he has more important things to do and then I suppose he will send his deputy.

  16. Bur,

    I also have a couple ideas of what the blaze may be. I’m wondering if there could be more than one blaze. I think Forrest said there was only one hoB but I don’t recall him saying anything about only one blaze.

    • The fact is, the IMPORTANT ONE is out there.f

      That and the poem sounds like he is talking about a singular blaze. It is composed of more than one thing, but it is just one blaze.

      • oz10;

        That depends on how you read it. It could be read,- there is more than one, but the last ONE is (still) out there – Just an idea – JDA

          • i am not certain that i follow your logic. you state that anyone can read it how they want and in that scenario, it could go either way. whats the bad idea part. the only bad idea i think that is certain, is fixing decisive personal interpretations to anything at all at forrest says. if this man was as straight forward as many of our simple solves would have him be, this quest would have been wrapped up 6 years ago. half a million people or so botg, probably double that armchair-wise. lets be real. theres got to be something the majority of us are missing. i think its dangerous to act like any interpretation is fact and even more so to discourage someones thought train because it differs from yours. best advice going in my opinion, keep an open mind and encourage others with an opposing view to keep there thoughts rolling, by not dismissing them and their credibility because their ideas differ from your own.

          • Sooner or later the fluid leaks through your hands and you need to grasp something that is more solid.
            Fluid open mind thinking is for beginners IMO.

            Sooner or later you have to stop putting all your chips on all the numbers on the roulette table and pick and choose which ones you think will win. You should start out wide minded but to find the treasure you need to narrow it down in your mind eventually.

          • To my understanding , the score between beginners and veterans is still:

            0:0

            Everyone’s still chewing tthe gum brand Thrills in the dugout.

            Batter up!

          • So what I hear oz and jake saying is a couple of back handed insults to justify their narrow minds. Judging by you thread history, you’ll be a lot better at talking smack to people who differ in opinion with you than anything else. Good luck with any endeavor that you choose to gaze those narrow minds upon. Oh and good luck with the search.

    • “There’s 10 billion blazes out there. So you have to start with the first clue and let it take you to the blaze.”
      “….you can find it if you can find the blaze as a result of starting with the first clue.”
      “The blaze is a physical thing…. it doesn’t take a scientist to figure out the blaze is something you can look at.”
      This is just a short list of comments where Fenn speaks of THE blaze. For those who think there are more than one… well… never mind.

      • ken – I am reaching for a STAR blaze as being the “IMPORTANT ONE” :

        Because you quoted Forrest:

        “There’s 10 billion blazes out there. So you have to start with the first clue and let it take you to the blaze.” f

        There are about 10 billion galaxies in the observable universe! The number of stars in a galaxy varies, but assuming an average of 100 billion stars per galaxy means that there are about 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (that’s 1 billion trillion) stars in the observable universe!

        And because I love the cover of Forrest’s book, “Once Upon A While”.

        And because my Most IMPORTANT blaze just happens to be a STAR.

        Ta Da!

        • ken – I am in tight focus with the “scientist” key word in this quote. And Galileo and the WISE telescope;

          “The blaze is a physical thing…. it doesn’t take a scientist to figure out the blaze is something you can look at.” f

          I can “look at” my STAR blaze from my Google Earth-based topo map. And in a picture of Forrest on Lightning in TTOTC book. And from that exact location on Trail #205 doing BOTG, overlooking my hidey spot. And by standing right on top of that STAR on my ridgeline blaze to enjoy the view at around 8,200 ft. I can look quickly down from any of these vantage points.

          If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
          Look quickly down your quest to cease.

          • Pretty interesting that we have totally different solves but some of the particulars are the same.

        • ken – In Summary:

          “The fact is, the IMPORTANT ONE is out there.” f

          I want to know if Forrest is being Sirius here. The brightest star in the heavens. Or maybe Canis Major? Or, Polaris, a pilot’s true North for navigation.

          • Q)”Hi Forrest, I would like to know if the blaze can be found during the day without a flashlight.” Thanks, Ron
            A)”Perhaps your question is wrought with trickiness Ron. Are you really asking if the blaze could be in a cave where it is dark during the day, thus the need of a flashlight? If there is no subterfuge intended in your question then I would say yes.”f

            ..”While it’s not impossible to remove the blaze it isn’t feasible to try, and I am certain it’s still there.”

            If ya’ll are going to throw quotes out there… ya might what to keep track of all the related ones, and not just the one that work for your theories.

            Just sayin…
            PS. Jake was correct … there’s only one true ‘Seeker’

          • The blaze cannot be a star in the sky.

            When I think of stars in the sky, I think dancing with the stars, bells, and the Bighorn medicine wheel.

          • T. Hunter – I think Sirius is more like Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer, pulling Forrest’s sleigh to the Island of Misfit Toys.

            And Canis Major is usually busy Chasing Canis Minor, so He is not moving the Chase forward. But Julius Caesar was as constant as Polaris. So wrote Shakespeare. And he dared to cross the Rubicon River, against the wishes of the Roman Senate.

            ““If you ain’t the lead dog, the scenery never changes. When I am in the mountains or in the desert, the last place I want to be is on a trail. Ain’t no adventure in that for me. There isn’t a human trail in very close proximaty (sic) to where I hid the treasure”. f

          • That’s the real, true, genuine, authentic ‘Seeker’ fresh out of hibernation and hungry.

          • Seeker and poisonivy – Your quotes still work for my solve. As above, so below. And reflections, or mirrors. Stars in the sky, and the STAR blaze on my ridgeline face. Catching a rising star, like on the cover of OUAW. Fly fishermen camp out and get up early. Like Forrest probably did often on solo trips with that bedroll of his. I get up early,
            also (Sunrise = Big Star) and see the Morningstar over the Eastern horizon, sometimes right next to a crescent moon. That is my time interpretation for that axe man photo in TTOTC. And I think Sirius is prevalent in mid-Summer. It’s “out there”, even in the daytime.

            Maybe we can draw The Wolf back into The Chase, Seeker? And talk about the Coriolis Effect again? Just kidding, Dal.

          • Seeker – Thank you for continuing to help me vet my solve, so I can go in there with confidence.

            ..”While it’s not impossible to remove the blaze it isn’t feasible to try, and I am certain it’s still there.”

            Forrest can see my ridgeline Cartouche blaze from Google Earth. In Satellite view. Looks about the same from a distance as when Donnie took that pic of Forrest at 16 on Lightning the horse.

            Maybe I will call my new friends, who work at the Quake Lake Visitor Center and the Hebgen Lake USFS office, to hike up there and plant some pine saplings to mess with my ridgeline blaze? They hiked out Cabin Creek in a rainstorm, making the creek crossings with no problem in early July the year I spoke to them.

          • Hey bon-a fide Seeker, I never thought I’d say this, but, OH the sweet sound! Somebody pinch me! I must be dreaming. Oh that’s another topic, Not! Ya bout to come out an play, or ya still on the sideline’s? Ya know, we need you, and Ken to keep some of us on the straight an narrow with your library of Fenn quotes. Have you placed that X on the map yet? 🙂

          • Afana – I have a book full of F’s quotes, where’s yours? You must know there are others that can quote F and can keep things in context. My you must not be listening.

            Just a friendly jab 🙂

          • CharlieM, I don’t need a book. I have many committed to memory, easier to draw on information. So what am I not hearing? Jab back at ya.

          • Afana,

            At my age I refer to the book just in case I have a senior moment, although my memory is still pretty sharp. You see I still like to keep things accurate when quoting.

            As far as not hearing, you’ll have to think about it, whispers is a clue.

          • CharlieM, I too have my senior moments at times. I don’t feel the need to quote Fenn on here. If searcher’s don’t become very familiar with them, then they are far behind in this game. As for whispers, I’ve already thought and processed what Mr. Fenn was referring to when HE mentioned whispers. I could tell you, but you may not see it if it was right under your nose. Inserting a smile, not a box.

        • poisonivy – That Wiki quote referred to 10 billion galaxies. The one we look at is often referred to as the Stairway to Heaven. That’s an impressive blaze in the night sky, also. In this amazing picture, made by a young local here in Sun Valley, Travis D. Amick, you can see clearly that the Milky Way forms a Rainbow blaze:

          https://photos.app.goo.gl/uB1Q6AdY2hqMNYaS6

          “And as we wind on down the road
          Our shadows taller than our soul
          There walks a lady we all know
          Who shines white light and wants to show
          How everything still turns to gold
          And if you listen very hard
          The tune will come to you at last.
          When all is one and one is all
          To be a rock and not to roll
          And she’s buying a stairway to heaven” – Led Zeppelin

    • MM,

      I said two because of photo’s I had taken from high above my search area and I see two possibles , but I won’t know if they are right or if I needs to see something else. When I get back out there and to my water high hopefully the blaze will make itself clear.

      Thanks for asking,
      Bur

  17. Thanks Ken and all for your comments on the blaze. I can work with only one blaze but IMO that puts a lot of emphasis on being wise.

      • . . . which begs the question: How many hands was he using when he
        “began it”?

        –Ermagerd! We’re supposed to be talking about Fenn’s treasure hunt!

        Okay, here goes . . . the apparent emphasis on D’s (for example, the
        mention of Dizzy Dean) has me wondering whether one’s intent is to
        get us thinking about the singer Dee Dee Sharp. Which could, in turn,
        lead to a small hint, if one thinks about musical notes.

        (All in my opinion, don’tcha know.)

        • Tall Andrew – OK, now I’m seeing and hearing Forrest listening to his crystal radio at the Fennhaven Cabins in West Yellowstone, to a baseball game, featuring Dizzy Dean? Or to Fran Warren, singing “Somewhere Over the Rainbow”.

          If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
          Look quickly down your quest to cease.
          But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
          Just take the chest and go in peace.

          Thank you Mr. Wizard. Or, Professor Marvel, as it were. Follow the Yellow Brick Road? To West Yellowstone, maybe???

          Just a theory. All IMO.

    • MM- some may consider bare feet pornographic.
      personally i do not.
      they just stink.

      • Finder, Paraphrasing comments, Mr. Fenn said to Doug Preston? that when it comes to the blaze, it was Fenn’s intention to throw searcher’s off at that point. Good luck with that .

        • Indeed he has thrown searchers off, including yours truly. But I figured it out and am past that Good luck catching up.

  18. For many nights I have had dreams about forrest. So fun! The one theme has been his Love of people particulatly favoring women.
    One night he was promoting several women in business. Who knows where these dreams come from? He was full of encouragement and enthusiasm. So many dreams I wish I wrote them all down before I forgot.
    Who else has vivid dreams of forrest?

  19. One of my dreams was Forrest telling me I was getting close. He really wanted to tell me but he would not and he held strong not to tell me. Which I respected him greatly for. He was playful and wanted me to figure it out for myself and I respected him for this greatly and visa vera.

    • Listen to your dreams, they might get you further than you think.
      Oh and don’t forget your visa card; it just might come in handy.

      • I’m always looking for a clue! Must believe!
        Thank you americana!
        Dreaming of the treasure.
        Every night…..and day.

        • I dream about the chase quite frequently but typically in my dreams I am soaring just above the trees deep in the Rocky Mountains. My favorite dream with Forrest in it was of getting to meet him at Collected work and getting a pat on the back for never giving up the chase. I have never been to Sante Fe so for me it is just a dream. Don’t give up on your dreams Lou Lee.

          • After seeing so many videos of forrest, knowing his voice and mannerisms. I think this makes the dreams so real.
            He is a very interactive person. He truly gets deeply involved with many people on the chase. He really seems to enjoy it.
            But given his age and the twist and turns of the events related to the chase,
            I think he had to focus on other more important things like family.
            He is our beloved leader, in a fun and exciting hunt that has brought more meaning to life for thousands of people.

        • Thank you Ideal Dreamer and Americana for your nice comments! And yes I will need my vias card!
          Not sure why Tall Andrew is making fun of me?
          Just posting abourt forrest and
          Wondering still ..
          Does any more of you remember vivid dreams of the chase? Kinda a new topic I guess.

  20. I was watching the Forrest Fenn Cody interview again recently.
    Something struck me odd at minute mark 44:22 thru 44:46
    Watch and see for yourselves.

    Forrest Fenn Cody interview
    Interviewed by Wally Johnson
    Tuesday October 17 2006
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p3Te6bt8upY

    Wally- Do you come up and visit regularly?
    Forrest- I come up here about four times a year.
    Wally- Do you still go back to Yellowstone?
    Forrest- Always go to Yellowstone in the summer.
    Wally- Are you as excited when you come to Cody now as you were when…?
    Forrest- Oh ya, I always look forward to it, well I drove 891 miles yesterday (Forrest chuckles) to get here.

    Man O Man, Forrest is a ROAD WARRIOR!
    891 MILES in one DAY!
    Phenomenal!

    What struck me odd is: Isn’t it interesting when Forrest does something remarkable he laughs.

    Hhhmmm.

    • Hey Forrest

      If you ever wanna play high stakes poker PLEASE let me know, just as long as you laugh when you’re holding a good hand!

      You can bring sitting bulls peace pipe to the table if you want!

      I’ll be waiting!
      Peace.

  21. After reading some of Lisa’s comments, I must say this–The poem will show you the way-Even in the Night of Day..

  22. This might fall under “The What Ifs?” section but I can’t seem to find one.

    What if there is a riddle in the poem that must be solved first to unlock some or all of the clues in the poem that align with the geographical locations one must follow to get from the beginning to the end of this chase? What if the first part of the poem includes a few of the clues right out in the open that get you started and take you to a point where a riddle needs to be solved in order to move on with the rest of the clues. For example…lets say that where warm rivers halt is where the Gardiner River terminates into the Yellowstone River and you take it in the canyon down not far but too far to walk to the put in below the home of Brown which in this case would be the Joe Brown put-in. I know this is a heavily used example but just humor me for a moment. At that point we are simultaneously at a point in the poem where we need to find the next clue and physically we are near the Sphinx on Yellowstone River. Forrest has said that there is a riddle in the poem that needs to be solved in order to find the chest. What if the next stanza of the poem stands alone as that riddle that needs to be solved in order to unlock the rest of the clues?

    From there it’s no place for the meek,
    The end is ever drawing nigh;
    There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
    Just heavy loads and water high.

    Oedipus was confronted by the Sphinx with a riddle that must be solved before he could continue on his journey. Maybe Forrest has constructed this riddle that must be solved before the next clue can be interpreted correctly.

    • True Believer;

      I agree with you that there is a riddle hidden in the poem. For me, it seems more logical that that riddle would be found in stanza #1, rather than in stanza #3. Figure out, and (maybe find the answer to) the riddle first, and then “Begin it …” Doesn’t this make sense?

      So what could the riddle be in stanza #1?

      As I have gone alone in there
      And with my treasures bold,
      I can keep my secret where,
      and hint of riches new and old.

      It took me over three and 1/2 years to figure out what that riddle was – but I think that (at last) I have figured it out. I am not yet going to say that I have solved the riddle, but I am hopeful – Enough said – JDA

      • Hey JDA

        Hope you are doing good.

        I too believe there is something in that first stanza, I think the hint or riddle in the first stanza gives the searcher a sort of awakening and points the searcher to a place that one can get started.

        And also, stanza 5 I believe is also a hint towards a secret special place that a searcher should be looking for, I believe stanzas 1 and 5 are referring to a place that a searcher must know about before hand as they travel amongst the landscape of fruition.

        Peace to you JDA
        Be safe in your travels

      • JDA,

        I have always believed that his special place is somehow obstructed from view from trails or roads that may pass close by but not in close proximity to (100-200 feet) and unless you are closer you won’t see the entrance. Imagine a narrow pathway between a large boulder and a stone face of a mountain that is barely large enough to fit through and can not be seen from a distance due to the angle that one might normally pass it by. On the other side of this boulder might be a magical place known only to Fenn and his dead friend or brother.

        • True Believer – I do not know what I will find once I can put BotG again, but what you describe sure seems to match the area that I will be searching. Thanks for your post – JDA

    • 5/8/2017 On the Road With Charlie part one
      “Well, It’s hidden in a pretty good place. It’s difficult to find, but it certainly isn’t impossible. But if you’re gonna find the treasure, you’re gonna have to solve the riddle that’s in my poem. The nine clues that are in my poem. Nobody’s gonna happen on that treasure chest.”
      True Believer… this comment from Fenn was years after his comment about no codes, ciphers, riddles, etc. Go figure! Whenever anyone says *riddle*… I’m all ears.

      • Scrap Book 62 was in 2014
        Fenn shared a list of examples of things that would not assist folks in finding the treasure location… after noting that searchers *overrate* the complexity of the search. One of those was, *riddles*. 3 years later he comments that you’re gonna have to solve the riddle in his poem. The nine clues in the poem. This gets my attention the same as any of his other comments that seem contradictory to other comments he’s given.
        There seems to be a number of choices a person could make in this regard. Anyone noticing this could easily deduce that Fenn may have followed some of the threads discussing these ideas, or any clue deciphering thread really, and realized that his poem does fit the criteria to be a *puzzle*, *challenge*, or *riddle* and just came out with it. Either way… I believe he was using the term *riddle* loosely, and was trying to emphasize that the *nine clues* in their entirety need to be deciphered, figured out in order to have success. He has certainly been very consistent in that regard.

        • ken, I agree, I believe that all three of your descriptors are inclusive in solving the poem. imo

        • ken, good description of the events. That is how I see it too. It now seems that ff puts the deciphering of his clues somewhere between a riddle and something more simple. Maybe at the end when is solved, we will also see why he didn’t classify it as a riddle at first.

      • Yes…Fenn contradicts himself on a regular basis which, in addition to the lack of confirmation, makes this an almost unsolvable quest. He has said verbally on more than one occasion that he buried the chest but corrects people when they say it is buried. He says the treasure chest is wet but says it isn’t under water. He says it hasn’t been found but he hasn’t seen it for over nine years and hasn’t returned to its location.

        • TB, Be prepared to understand that all of these are true. Much like a glass can be half-full or half empty or even empty or full at different times in the process of events.

        • TB,

          I don’t believe he said the treasure was buried, that’s why he is correcting some. I’m not saying its either buried or not. If F says it is not under water, I see no reason as to why the tc can’t be wet, as it’s out there in nature, not in or under nor around a structure.

          Just Say’n

          • TB,

            Thanks for the links, The first link did not mention he buried the tc. The second link he does say he buried it at the very beginning of the audio which was in 2013. Yet Forrest answered the following question under Forest Gets Mail #13, here on hoD 2017.
            Question: When did you find this spot to bury the treasure like year?
            Forrest: I have not said that I buried it, and I don’t want to reveal when I discovered the spot. It is too much of a clue.

            The audio of 2013 conflicts with his Mail in 2017, its either lack of memory or he did bury the tc. I would be inclined to take his 2013 statement, however the poem says “in the wood”, which could mean both “in the wood” and “buried”, which would make the tc very much harder to find.

            Then it comes about that the *200′ from the treasure and not even know it* seems a little bit more plausible that *in the wood and buried” could be true.

            Personally I don’t see a 80 yr old digging a hole then make two trips to bury the tc. That is too much work for a tired man to do, and goes way beyond weak to trek back and forth twice less than a few miles. I’ll go with my instincts on this.

            Just Say’n

          • CharlieM;

            Why does Forrest at 79 or 80 have to dig the hole on the day that he brought the treasure to the spot? Why couldn’t Forrest have spent even years, preparing the spot, and then on the one day he brings the treasure, put the baubles in the chest, put the chest in the prepared hole and then place a rock or two on top of the hole – Job done – and go back down the mountain laughing at himself all of the way. JMO – JDA

          • JDA,

            You might be correct, but to do it over the years preparing the spot to me is a little bit of a stretch. Then you said, “Job done – and go back *down the mountain* laughing at himself all of the way.” doesn’t seem applicable when F indicated he wouldn’t go down a canyon and back up, twice. I think this would also apply to mountains as well.

            Who knows, only F and the finder will know.

            Just Say’n

          • You say “:F indicated he wouldn’t go down a canyon and back up, twice. I think this would also apply to mountains as well.” Then you are saying that from the spot that Forrest started walking, that it is perfectly level to where he hid Indulgence? No place in nature is level over a distance that would be “less than a few miles:.

            Almost ANYWHERE will require an increase in elevation to or from the parking spot to the hidey spot. For me, following the poem from hoB to meek place to HL&WH leads me uphill – Thus my – “and go back down the mountain laughing at himself all of the way.” JMO – JDA

          • JDA,

            There are small and large valleys that are less than a few miles. “Perfectly level” came from you.

            You have a lot of speculations going on for you, nothing is wrong with that. I try to steer clear of speculations. What if’s will (speculation) will always complicate things. I tend to look for sound reasons and facts.

            But hey, we all think differently.

            Just Say’n

          • CharlieM;

            Speculation or not – As you said, ” he wouldn’t go down a canyon and back up, twice. ” I take this as fact, not speculation. If I go from my starting point and go Up a mountain (a fairly short Distance) and then back down – twice, I have never Gone down a canyon and back up.
            So, I am not breaking Forrest’s rule. Up and down twice, NOT down then up and then down and back up – Twice. Just sayin’ But we all read it differently – JDA

          • JDA,

            No matter wether you start down in elevation or up first, and do it twice the same amount of exertion is needed.

            Now you come up with semantics, we could go back and forth all day and night!

            I’ll give up, nothing is worth going back & forth with banter. 🙂

          • CharlieM,

            Quote from the first video clip after being asked why he chose to bury the chest where he did… “It’s a very special place to me…otherwise I couldn’t have done it…I couldn’t just take it out and bury it in the ground someplace where I didn’t know where I was.”

            As far as an 80 year old man digging a hole…he has buried a dozen bronze bells three or four feet deep all over the Rocky Mountains.

    • Of course we are all speculating, but I’ll play.

      I think we can all agree that just unlocking the clues in the poem to arrive at the chest location is a riddle, or maybe, nine riddles.

      Is there a further “riddle” in the poem. needed to get to the chest? I’m not certain. What I discover along the way is something else, I would not call it a riddle.

      Here is a definition of “riddle” – “a question or statement intentionally phrased so as to require ingenuity in ascertaining its answer or meaning, typically presented as a game.” Well, the question asked in the poem is in stanza 5.

      Like everything else, we are riddled by every word, phrase, sentence . . . .

    • Hi True Believer, Mr. Fenn Has referred to himself, as a wordcrafter, wordsmith, and a word architect. But that’s only his opinion of himself. If he was an English major, I could buy into the riddle idea, but then why would there be a need to include subtle hints in his Memoir, if the poem was simply a riddle?

    • You lost me at “where warm rivers halt”. Have you looked up “halt” in a dictionary? But good luck to you. Enjoy the chase.

  23. True Believer,

    You Said – “Maybe Forrest has constructed this riddle that must be solved before the next clue can be interpreted correctly.” – which I agree with, IMO the riddle is *wwwh. However I disagree with the thought – “What if the next stanza of the poem stands alone as that riddle that needs to be solved in order to unlock the rest of the clues?” – The riddle as being the third stanza IMO are of places and things that can be found on a map, they have to be found.

    Of course: Just Say’n

    • I was just throwing it out there into the cosmos as an idea to consider. I have been in the chase for four years and I have looked at this chase from many different angles. I do a bit a logic based computer programming and when I want something to happen in a particular order, I can wrap a couple of parenthesis around a bit of code and assign a trigger to it which will force that code to be executed before the rest of the program can continue. I think it is possible that there is a riddle acting as a gatekeeper somewhere in the poem that once figured out can be show a person where to continue their journey from where they left off before the riddle.

      • Nice analogy, True Believer. And thank you also for the video links to “buried”. Much appreciated.

  24. I was hurried and the last line should read, The riddle as being the third stanza “is unlikely”, IMO are of places and things that can be found on a map, they have to be found.

  25. All,

    I’m curious to get your thoughts on how well you believe a 79/80 year old Fenn could have traveled the terrain to wherever he placed the treasure. Do you believe it’s reasonable to consider Mr. Fenn hiking off-path in rocky terrain with a 300-400 foot incline over the course of a hike with an estimated 20 pound load each time?

    Personally, I’m in the midwest and my body is not used to the altitudes of the search states. So, what comes easy to people who are used to various altitudes can be more of a struggle for others. I’ve found myself out of breath just on a normal stroll in some places but realize that a lot of that comes from my body not being conditioned to higher altitudes.

    That aside, 20 pounds is no joke to be carrying anywhere, even if in a backpack. How far do you think Mr. Fenn could traverse given his age and general health at the time?

    Although I generally don’t post, I’ve had BOTG 6 times over the course of a few years at different locations and just wanting some input.

    Thanks in advance for any thoughts or comments.

    • Mike

      I think we have to take Forrest’s motivation as a huge clue.

      Set aside Everything we think we may know about this man and what his capabilities may be.

      His motivation to accomplish something remarkable and extraordinary may have underestimated many.

      Motivation Definition: The general desire or willingness of someone to do something.

      Everything I have read about Mr Forrest Fenn leads me to one certainty in my own mind…… Forrest LOVES a CHALLENGE!
      All in IMO.

  26. @true believer

    My interpretation of “word that is key” portion of the second half of that second sentence in that paragraph following at “,but” ,answer is a bit different.

    “It is interesting to know that a great number of people are out there searching. Many are giving serious thought to the clues in my poem. The treasure may be discovered sooner than I anticipated.”

    As an example, but not limited to:

    A word that sticks out in the poem is the word” Brown” , as having the only capitalization that’s not at the beginning of a sentence. Being as that there is a high probability that” Brown” is a clue and many are giving serious thought to the clues in the poem. Much focus on that word (Brown) would likely be anticipated as being accrued then and now. Being as the clues are important and a major focus. Its understandable that the position of capital B of Brown would be a word given tight focus by searchers. But there are 9 clues and many other words that are also being given tight focus to by the search community So, being as probably noticed, that only a few are only in tight focus of Brown as a clue. There are many giving serious thought to all other words of the 9 clues- perhaps to his surprise . Therefore ,what he might mean here is that because of this ,the chest may be found sooner than he anticipated. If there is a “keyword” for in this Q&A answer , I’d say it’s what be , “anticipated”.

    He said there are no cyphers or codes ,etc , that are helpful. So, every clue word or combination of words that are clues as written , are key. Not just one word somewhere in the poem.

    Great number of people searching.
    Many giving serious thought to the clues in my poem,
    but only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key.

    Hence, the next and last sentence:

    The treasure may be discovered sooner than I anticipated.”

    He is speaking here about what he anticipated .

    I don’t think it’s a single all powerful word . But any word that is within a clue in the poem.

    It looks like after he wrote this response it went from “but only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key”, too being a lot more. Lol.

    Just my opinion.

    • Alsetenash – You quoted Forrest:

      “It is interesting to know that a great number of people are out there searching. Many are giving serious thought to the clues in my poem. The treasure may be discovered sooner than I anticipated.”

      And the other line he used:

      “…but only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key.”

      If he spoke that paragraph aloud, “serious thought” could be ‘Sirius thought’, and could be a blaze for the opt-imal time to search for the bronze chest. What say you, Galileo? Am Eye right? Did the Cardinals lock you up again???

      • Alsetenash – I Sooooo want to put a Circumpunct, the alchemical symbol for GOLD in this sentence, so IT would now read:

        IT is interesting. To know that a great number of people are out THERE searching….

        Giggles. There ARE a lot of people searching below my WWWH, including Dal. Nice pic, Dal, that Forrest used for the cover of TFTW. Where on the Madison River did you take IT?

        • Alsetenash – The first line of Forrest’s Poem is:

          “As I have gone alone in there,”

          In THERE

          Out THERE

          Hmmmm…

          As above, So below????

          • @Lisa Cesari

            I do think there is an influence of Shakespeare’s signature and Leonardo Da Vinci, in FF and his poem.

            Shakespeare:

            Once upon a midsummer night dream- (A Comedy)

            From WIKI:

            “a group of six amateur actors (the mechanicals) who are controlled and manipulated by the fairies who inhabit the forest in which most of the play is set. ”

            Forrest Fenn
            Once Upon A While

            Quote by FF-“My church is in the mountains and along the river bottoms where dreams and fantasies alike go to play.

            I don’t think there’s a need to know all things Shakespeare to tackle this poem . But understanding FF and his style of poetic influences may help. His poem style could be a bi-product of such influence and that of others artists also. An example of the “Florencia” painting being actually incorrectly titled as “”Gracella”. Incorrect in the SB and not corrected in twice produced Once Upon A While. The “Gracella” painting reminds me of the Leonardo Da Vinci “Mona Lisa”. Is this another ‘influence’ hint? I dunno. But it’s quite a pointed error. Is it on purpose? I dunno. But why not investigate the idea to some end at least. (Speaking to myself that is).

            A bi-product (mathematical) is an accumulative.

            “but the fortunate bi-products of searching seem to come from all
            directions.” ((Good intentions procures many positive results , manifested in many different ways (directions) ))

            Inescapable, is the past influencing our Now.

            Da Vinci was a polymath. Very much “as above so below”, in much of his works.

          • Alsetenash – Forrest wrote, “coming from all directions”:

            “A Rose by any other name would smell as sweet.” – Romeo and Juliet by William Shakespeare

            I give you the Compass Rose

            What’s in a name, Forrest? There is ‘For rest’ or ‘forest’ in yours, kind Sir!

          • Alsetenash – No dash.

            Bidirectional traffic

            In air traffic control traffic is normally separated by elevation, with east bound flights at odd thousand feet elevations and west bound flights at even thousand feet elevations (1000 ft ≈ 305m). Above 28,000 ft (~8.5 km) only odd flight levels are used, with FL 290, 330, 370, etc., for eastbound flights and FL 310, 350, 390, etc., for westbound flights.[7] Entry to and exit from airports is always one-way traffic, as runways are chosen to allow aircraft to take off and land into the wind, to reduce ground speed.[8] Even in no wind cases, a preferred calm wind runway and direction is normally chosen and used by all flights, to avoid collisions. In uncontrolled airports, airport information can be obtained from anyone at the airport. Traffic follows a specific traffic pattern, with designated entry and exits. Radio announcements are made, whether anyone is listening or not, to allow any other traffic to be aware of other traffic in the area.

          • Alsetenash – I saw the words ‘entry’ and ‘exit’ in that Wiki page description:

            “All the world’s a stage and all the men and women merely players. They have their entrances and their exits, and one man in his time plays many parts.” – William Shakespeare

            Forrest used that exact quote.

          • Alsetenash – Thanks for the heads up on “Florencia” vs. “Graciela”. I just read Forrest’s SB #178 again. And found a Harry’s blog discussion to give me some of that backstory. The pose in the “Florencia” painting does remind me also of the Mona Lisa. And Harry had a great Urban dictionary definition for “Graciella”. She sounds lovely. No wonder Forrest became attached to her!

        • Alsetenash – That’s “ONE IMPORTANT” STAR blaze, Out THERE!:

          The circled dot, circumpunct, or circle with a point at its centre is an ancient symbol. It can represent: Solar system.

          • Lisa Cesari.

            I am not sure I understand. Is your Blaze a star -Sirius A or B? Or is something Astro your WWWH?

            I am of the mind that the poem clues are all earth (Terra) based. In my opinion, all the clues are viewable 24/7 during the day . If a cloudy day hides what I think is a clue , then it’s likely not a clue. Nothing in the sky ,viewable through the boundary of our atmosphere, is in the exact same place as the day before. The earth rotation and spin( wobbly) is gyroscoptic.

            I have trouble with the lack of viewable consistency and the inherent viewing inhibitions with anything astronomical as part of the clues.

            My opinion is ,of course , in absence of any certainty.

          • Alsetenash – Sirius-ly and metaphorically, As Above, So Below. There is both an A and a B there. And there are blazes in the Heavens that correspond to all my very Earthbound blazes and clues that fit Forrest’s Poem. Poetry is filled with metaphors.

          • Alsetenash – That idiom I mentioned figured prominently in a book written by Dan Brown. I remember the last scene of the movie made from that book. The architecture of a tomb within the pyramid of the Louvre is my example.

            If we discuss this topic further, we will have to follow the blaze of King Solomon over to the home of Brown thread.

            It’s Stellar.

          • Alsetenash – And if you take the Spiritual, metaphorical and geometric symbolism of the two Pyramids, nose to nose, in that “Da Vinci Code” book and movie…and then change that to be a two dimensional image, you get an Hourglass. ⌛

            William Butler Yeats wrote important literature and poetry. I loved his “Song of Wandering Aengus”, which features a fisherman and Heavenly metaphors.

            I still consider myself to be The Fool on The Chase:

            https://www.bartleby.com/library/readersdigest/994.html

            The Community Library in Ketchum has a Large Print volume, containing the painting s and sketches of Leonardo da Vinci. I study the Mona Lisa and his sketchbook about birds in flight in it often. That Codex was published in 1505, or MDV, I read. Do you think Forrest meant to write DMV in that Scrapbook about running out of gas in his Jeep Cherokee Laredo, while going to renew his driver’s license, or not???

          • Alsetenash – Okay…maybe Forrest left his vehicle in the Wallma rt parking lot, and flew a plane to West Yellowstone Airport, even though his pilot’s license was expired? Maybe he knew the airport managers at both airports to get away with that? I know one at that particular destination.

            That’s my new theory. IMO.

          • @Lisa Cesari. An MRI snapshot of your synapse may require a Meteorologists interpretation .. lol 🙂 . Wherever a boat floats; the larger the boat, the deeper the waters. 🙂

            You have an interesting approach to this. My approach is a simple one when it comes to deciphering the poem . My complexity aspect with this commences with attempting to prove relative plausibility by investigation .Thereby ,converting my status from theory into likely, to form a justified confidence. Wherever and whatever directions your ideas come from ,to you; your level of enthusiasm is equally as important.

            What if the poem , deciphering the poem, is much simpler than this as stated within many a quotes and reasonings by FF? Not saying easier, just simpler. Rather than viewing it from so many different directions? There are no codes , cyphers nor head pressured scientific instrumentations.

            What if: In deciphering the poem correctly, the proof positive towards having confidence; is that a code is revealed to you? Only recognizable by being correct in a solve? Not that it is a code that unlocks or deciphers the poem, nor that FF used any codes or such disciplines to write the poem. But rather , maybe it reveals a code. A code only seen and recognized if you correctly solved the poem?

            What if that is the important possibility?

            What if:It seems logical to me that a deep thinking treasure searcher could use logic to determine an important clue to the location of the treasure.

            Deciphering/solving the poem is one part. To marry the solve to a map is another thing. Finding it BOTG is another.

            What if a “code” is revealed to you if you correctly solve the poem?

            A code after deciphering the poem?

            IMO .

          • Alstendash – From the link in my other post,
            lower down on this thread:

            “This music motif…functions like a code…”

            Start with the tone. (Pinkish-red) – G
            Up a full tone. (Orange) – A
            Down a major third. (Purple) – F
            Now drop an octave. (Yellow) – F (an octave lower)
            Up a perfect fifth. (White) – C

            I spy FF.

            And Cerebrospinal fluid is WARM, right? I always wanted to be a Brain Surgeon. Couldn’t afford college on my own.

  27. Dal. I apologize for posting some of that rubbish yesterday, I was in the wrong and knew it.

    Anyone, I have been looking for the Fenn quote where he said something about the clues get you closer to the treasure? I couldn’t find the exact quote from him and if this is correct then my theory about heavy loads and water high being past the treasure is in jeopardy. I couldn’t find it here or on Tarryscant.
    Thanks

    • If you follow each clue precisely, they will lead you to where he hide the treasurer, or something like that.

      • Thanks Lisa, I saw that quote and doesn’t hurt my new theory but the “closer” comment does and that’s why I need to verify it before I book any trips. I probably won’t be heading out till August anyway, so no rush.

    • Hi Jake,

      This may not help too much but this f. comment comes to mind. It’s from the EEDS interview from 2015.

      Fenn said: Well, there are nine clues in my poem and one is in my book. And I’m not going to give any more clues. I’m… There are hints in my book that will help you with the clues, but.. A clue will point you toward the treasure chest, and a hint will just help you with the clues, if you can understand that.

      The words “point” and “toward” may or may not be meaningful (IMO).

      I also thought there was a quote floating around that specifically mentioned “closer” too. I couldn’t find it either. Hmmmm.

      SRW

        • Another thought,

          If a clue were to be located behind you, would that still mean “toward”?

          I don’t know. Another mind bender I guess (IMO).

          SRW

          • Hey Jake,

            Here’s another Fenn comment that I just remembered about. I know you know all of these, but this one might be relevant to the “closer” idea, or not. It’s from the Moby Dickens interview from 2013:

            @ 7:49 the question was:

            I have one about the poem. If you follow the poem precisely, will you find yourself switching back?

            If I follow the clues in the poem precisely, would I what?

            Will you find yourself switching back? Making a loop.

            And Fenn answers:

            “This gal’s dangerous, you know! (pause) Would I find myself switching back… I think I can say no to that without giving away too much of the clues. Uh, nobody is gonna happen on that treasure chest. You’re gonna have to figure out the clues in the poem, and go to it. There are several people that have deciphered the first two clues. I don’t think they knew it, because they walked right on past the treasure chest. And I’m not gonna tell those people who they are because one of them particularly would faint, I know. And she’d tear the countryside up trying to figure out where they’d been. But, uh, it’s an opportunity to… has… doesn’t have any downsides I think. Everybody wins if you go out looking for it. Another question”?

            Maybe we can rule out having to backtrack long distances, or not (IMO).

            You got me thinking about that “closer” comment. Does this comment ring any bells for anybody else?

            SRW

          • My bad SRW, I listened to the Moby video again and heard “switching back” loud and clear, it appears he didn’t hear “loop”. Was he thinking “switchbacks” or “switching back” ?

            Sounded like “without giving away too much of the clue” singular and not plural as the quote from Tarryscant. I cannot hear the “s” with headphones all the way up.
            I wonder which clue he is talking about….

            I now see where he said “toward” and I think that could be taken a couple ways but “closer” can only be taken one way in my mind and I think it’s about distance.

          • Mornin’ Jake,

            Good catch. I saw that you had that comment switched (loop vs. switchback) late last night and it was on my list of To Do’s to mention it to you this morning.

            I wonder if he even heard the loop part? If he did, maybe that can rule out a circular hike and the whole T. S. Elliot idea of ending up right back where we started scenario. Or not, since f. didn’t appear catch or speak about that part.

            About the switchback or switch backs. I don’t know. I always keep going back to f’s comments about how the poem is “straightforward”, “the clues will lead”, “will point you toward”, etc., (all paraphrased). He repeats those comments ALOT!

            And about “toward”. I tend to equate that word to *forward* and I know, I probably shouldn’t do that. But if I’m going “toward” something, like my front door, I’m generally moving forward or going to it or toward it. But to mean behind….. I don’t know about that one.

            All IMO,
            SRW

          • Ya, it’s a tough one to call but I think I can eliminate “closer” seeing it is hearsay at this point although it comes from a reliable source(s). It’s tough enough trying to figure just what Fenn meanings are nevermind others.

            Towards scares me cause I think you’re right that I would be going away from the chest towards clue 7 to confirm then go back into the wise area in my theory to look for the chest which to me would be backtracking which is not the same as “switching back” in my mind.

            Looks like I’m starting to do what other searchers have done when they don’t find a suitable blaze near heavy loads and water high. I don’t want to marry the area like some and keep changing and twisting things to fit my solve(s) and keep going back a dozen times or more. I do like the area where the poem has taken me but it looks like this will be the last trip to Taylor for me. If there is no suitable blaze after searching some areas for a week this year, then it’s time to let a big piece of my solve go and go back to the other creeks I have searched scantly.

            Toward and closer could mean solving the poem or quest but I think he mentioned chest or treasure which is in a specific location.

          • Jake – If you back up Taylor Canyon, please check in at The Trapper’s Cabin on Lightning Creek, to see if Sandy is up there. Remember, I found a Heart blaze formed by that creek, running through her property on Google Earth. And staying below the water-high mark gives fly fisherman access to that creek, and all others in Montana. I think that’s why Grant McClintock called the second book he published, after “Flywater”, by the title, “Watermark”.

          • When we talked to Mike D at the cabin last year, I thought he said Sandy was in the hospital or hospice. Not sure. He also mentioned Sandy was a guy cause I asked how she was doing. O well.
            Mike gave us a little history lesson on how that area was going to be Bigsky but Sandy and others fought to stop the development. He also mentioned Sandy worked for Rumsfeld. All hearsay but I’m sure most is true. That whole area had about 35 cabins, way more dirt roads, thousands of sheep, many horses, mining, loging, farming and then they decided to clean the whole are up because it was messing up the Gallatin. Now most is back to nature. Surely is a nice area to rest your bones.

          • Hey Jake,

            I hope I haven’t said anything that would indicate that a searcher doesn’t need to go to “heavy loads and water high”.

            You said:

            “Towards scares me cause I think you’re right that I would be going away from the chest towards clue 7 to confirm then go back into the wise area in my theory to look for the chest which to me would be backtracking which is not the same as “switching back” in my mind”.

            I hope I’m not misunderstanding what you said above. But I’ll try to say what I’m trying to say this way:

            I do think a searcher has to go to “heavy loads and water high”. From that place, I think the searcher has to have been “wise” and find/found the “blaze”. That is not to say that I think “wise” and “blaze” are to be found at two different locations (an example would be “wise” being somewhere behind you). (IMO).

            Rather, I think that after locating “heavy loads and water high”, the next clue should or will, according to Fenn, “point toward” your next clue. (IMO).

            “Toward” still reads with forward momentum to me. (IMO).

            Anyways, I hope the above doesn’t read too confusing. Sometimes it’s hard to say what you wanna say without saying too much.

            All IMO,
            SRW

          • One last thought Jake,

            After reading Bur’s recent comments on “wise” and “blaze”, I can imagine a scenario where the “knowledge” might be behind you, but the “physical” could still be “toward”. If’n ya know what I mean. (IMO).

            Yea, that could work. (IMO).

            SRW

          • I think we should physically go to some of the clues just to confirm especially JHLAWH.
            The thing that bugs me is the way those lines are worded.
            You go up your creek and you find HLAWH and then you have been wise (if)… It’s either some directions are missing which I doubt but nothing there tells me to go past JHLAWH which leads me back once again if there is no blaze at JHLAWH.

            I see places, things at places, directions/actions in the other clues but none in that line I can recognize except for the blaze which is probably is a thing at a place and I believe it to be the last clue. IYBWAFTB. I must be missing something with my theory but I will go with it anyway. I need a vacation once or twice a year away from south FL in the summer.

          • I understand. I’m about ready for one of those nice vacations myself. LOL.

            Safe Travels,
            SRW

          • Jake;

            I am going to go back a ways to something that Seeker posted a while back.

            “What if” instead of a long physical search (a “Big Picture” search), we are now supposed to take a
            “Small Area Visual” search?

            Let’s say that you are standing at a spot that could be called a WWWH spot – and “Take it in” meaning – Take in the view – first, a Canyon Down, and then a hoB. Move your eyes farther down the canyon, and you “See” a “No place for the meek” area. – From here, you may have to visually travel UP the canyon following a “No paddle creek” until you reach a “Heavy Loads” spot… and then to a Water High spot – that happens to be the same spot we started as our WWWH spot. This spot is now both a WWWH spot and out WH spot (T.S. Eliot poem that Forrest quoted –
            “We shall not cease from our exploration
            And at the end of all our exploring
            Will be to arrive where we started
            And know the place for the first time.”

            We shall not cease from our exploration
            And at the end of all our exploring
            Will be to arrive where we started
            And know the place for the first time.” f
            Visually, we have made a circle from out WWWH spot back to the same spot, that is now our WH.

            We continue our visual search, and spot our Blaze.
            We “Look quickly down” and figure out where we now – for the first time – need to make a physical search. The remaining lines and stanzas will direct you as to what to look for when on your BotG search.

            Just an idea, that MAY make it all work – JDA

          • JDA,
            I don’t have to do a long physical search. My BOTG spots are within 3 miles of where I think the blaze is, I just like to check out the other clues physically just to see them and see if there is a blaze or see what’s really there.

            As far as Seeker’s POV where it’s mostly visual, that doesn’t work for me and my solves, I don’t consider it at all.
            The small area theory doesn’t work for me either because of one line in the poem. Too far to walk.

            I tried the TS Eliot circle approach back in 2015 and given it serious thought for months but I don’t think that line in his poem that Fenn recites is the most important part of his poem. For the treasure to be at WWWH doesn’t make sense to me considering there would be wasted clues that mean nothing.

          • I never did understand why folks interpreted Fenn’s misquote from Eliot’s poem in this fashion. I believe that mentioning that particular line from the poem would certainly indicate a more detailed intimacy and understanding of it’s message.

          • SRW,
            Your 10:59am post has a very important clue. I read the transcript many times and listened to the audio but never caught this until you pointed it out.
            FF did say “she’d”…..I had to listen to the audio several times to verify this. The transcript of the Moby Dickens Q&A does not have “she’d” in the sentence, any easy miss, but it is clear after hearing the audio.
            This blog with FF’s comments help us narrow down the area. He said “they walked right past the treasure chest.” This, to me, indicates those people were within several feet of the TC and not the further end of the 200′. I believe if it were closer to the 200′ then FF most likely would have used some other description and not “walked right past”.
            So I believe a woman with another person(s) told FF via a blog or email where she had been. This information let FF know exactly that they had walked right past the TC.
            So prior to November 2013 it was obvious to FF that a woman, with one or more individuals, had been very close to the TC.
            Of course this is all my opinion.

          • Oh no! Sandy may not be with us anymore. 🙁
            I don’t have enough money to buy it either.

          • Jake – Say B-bye to the historic Trappers Cabin:

            By agreement, the cabin on Non-federal Parcel B, south of East Fork Mill Creek, will be removed by Weissman and the site will be restored. The cabin in the Taylor Fork (Parcel F) will also be removed and the site restored. Prior to the exchange, Weissman has the option to remove the Taylor Fork cabin, or allow another entity to remove it. However, if he elects not to remove the cabin prior to the exchange, the Forest Service will remove it after the exchange.

          • Jake – Mill Creek is on Snowy Ranch, South of Livingston, MT. It’s a land exchange between that ranch and the Trappers Cabin Ranch.

            I like that there is a Cache Creek up near Sandy’s property. Trappers liked to use Caches back in the day. I have tried to figure out if Osborne Russell got up In THERE. Taylor Fork is another potential source of the coloquial home of Brown for fly fisherman on the Gallatin River, where Forrest fished with his friend Joe. Your link graphs that Spring runoff. I like the pics. A previous one from the Gallatin Land Trust I used to have had really pretty pics of the view from the Trappers Cabin Ranch.

          • Jake – Yup! Back to Nature! Yea!

            Your Mama Grizz with the two cubs you took a video of, while hiking around In THERE, will appreciate that. I am sure those cubs are HUGE now. Maybe they should rename that property, home of Brown??

          • Ya, It’s always a good thing when moma and cubs run the other way. I think my bro James scared them while my under armour turned brown.

        • Jake,

          I’m visually speculating here and this scenario depends on one interpretation being that –no place for the meek- is a road/trail where we walk/travel towards an unspecified end (ever drawing nigh) and at some point we should be able to perhaps cross a dry creek-crevice-border line that we could call (no paddle up your creek).

          From that intersection, one must follow that ‘line’ up to heavy loads and water high (must match somehow). From up there (or that viewpoint) and looking back down from where we came (maybe, not clear) one must see the blaze. Whatever the blaze is one must be at the right position (viewpoint) to recognize it. The only point here we didn’t reach was the end is ever drawing nigh.

          Or that ‘position’ where we find the blaze could be at the intersection too, and no need to walk/travel towards heavy loads-water high but only identify it. In this scenario, we didn’t reach (teiedn) and we didn’t have to stand at HL-WH. Just be at the right spot using the waypoints to uncover or identify the blaze.

          There is no back-tracking involved only maybe side-tracking, if it is crucial to identify our clues and move TOWARDS the chest I don’t see any issue with it.

          • Good writeup Oz10,
            I like -no place for the meek- to be an area with defined borders on a map. That way I know where I put in and have to travel by road/trail/waterway to the end or border of Yellowstone National Park cause I think YNP is no place for Fenn now and doesn’t like the control and crowd factors when fishing now compared to when he was a young lad with not many folks there then.

            The end is ever drawing nigh;
            Sure sounds like it’s an endless travel but nigh could mean near and ever seems to keep going on and on but sooner later you have to come to your creek and that’s the new direction you travel.

            A dry creek has no water a good part of the year and a paddle wouldn’t help either time when it’s got runoff.

            Yes I agree JHLAWH must match seeing they are on the same line in the poem and you have to be in the right position to see the blaze.

            I wish I could explain why he chose those words in IYBWAFTB….

    • Jake…after years of seeing and hearing Fenn comments correctly and incorrectly quoted, it sometimes becomes a pain in the abs trying to figure out what’s what. There may be a comment from Fenn using the word *closer*… but I truly only recall the Eeds comment…”will point you”. I do recall MANY searchers tossing around the *closer* comment. Heck, I have probably done it myself. Maybe Loco(Fred) can hunt that one down. Gotta know who’s who… right?

          • I remember that quite clearly now Colokid. Thanks for the refresher. When debacles like that keep reappearing, my autoforgetter works real good !

          • Thanks guys, Good stuff!

            Take (Video 2013)
            Closer (Searchers recollection)
            Towards ?
            Point (Eeds Audio 201X)
            Followed Precisely (TTOTC)

            I know I’m missing some info.

            SRW, Closer and towards seem to be relatives. My new theory has me going to physically confirm heavy loads and water high, then backtrack to where the blaze is in the “wise” area. I don’t think I could search an area if there are no heavy loads and water high.

            I don’t think Fenn heard the “switching back” part of the Q, I think he only heard the loop….

            Take closer towards point followed.
            Seems like a message right there.
            I’ll get to the point in a while.
            Trash my new theory?
            Keep my new theory?
            Or should I just flip a coin?
            Way too many coincidences in this chase.

          • Jake – My “heavy loads” are near my trailhead, and my “water high” happens every time I ford a creek to get to my hidey spot. Or during Spring runoff. Or during a heavy thunderstorm. Is Lightning a blaze and one of those ‘heavy loads’?And also past my hidey spot, up high in the Cabin Creek drainage. The deep snowpack and Spring Creeks. And then there is the Spring Creek, right next to my hidey spot, with its source higher up.

            The fault scarp at Cabin Creek:

            https://www.flickr.com/photos/jsjgeology/44935779554

            That 1959 earthquake created ‘heavy loads’ for sure. And ‘water high’ on the Madison River, when the slide came roaring down that steep grade to block it. And Quake Lake was the result.

          • Jake – Change this map to Satellite view in the upper left corner to see the Lighting-like ridge that supports Lightning Creek, and that points to the trailhead for my Red-Black-Green Trail #205. Donnie took that pic of Forrest on Lightning the horse, from that ‘Tea Trail’, IMO.

            https://www.mytopo.com/maps/?lat=44.9488&lon=-111.3252&z=13

            And they could have done a big loop, like T S. Eliot describes in that poem Forrest likes. They could have taken the Trail #207 coming down. Which ends at the Cabin Creek Trailhead. I call that one the Red-Black-Violet trail, in Radar Colors Code, and I believe my out-and-back there will take me to Forrest’s Purple Heart medal. Or to a metaphor for it. Wisdom and Courage reside in the Heart. not

            Or, maybe, also, to a “brave and in the wood’ heart-shaped clearing in a grove of pines, where the bronze chest may just be nestled in the Heart Wood of a fallen tree. Forrest said we should get Out THERE in the forest and turn over a log, didn’t he???

            RADAR – That’s a backwards and forwards Palindrome. It goes either way. And so can I.

          • I do like that area Lisa but it may be a little too far of a hike for an 80 year old unless he was in super shape or he started the hike before the sun came up but 14+ miles in one day scares me.

          • Jake – Oh, yeah, and the Rose Line is what Takes Robert Langdon In THERE in “The Davinci Code”. Thinking again about the Compass Rose blaze, and that “from all directions” email quote from Forrest.

            And that “rose” quote from Romeo and Juliet by Shakespeare.

            What’s in a name, Roselin??

          • Jake – See also: Leonardo da Vinci and “As Above, So Below”. The Architecture of his painting, “The Last Supper”, is a good example. What did Forrest say about the Poem being written by an Architect? And what did Shakespeare write about a “finger” writing? Forrest used that quote. And there is a Finger Mountain in the Madison Range above my search area. And a Boat Mountain below the trailheads. You could certainly “put in” there, on a horse, if you’ve “done IT tired”, right? Fly fishing is hard work. Heavy loads on the fly line from the water high.

            In Summary (Summery?), I bid you Good Morrow, and leave you with an image made by Leonardo Fiori, my Florentine photographer friend, who lives in Lucca:

            https://500px.com/photo/246787667

            “As Above, So Below”

            And ‘Fiori’ means ‘Fire’.

          • Jake – Oops! Sorry! That’s ‘Lucca’ means ‘Light” and ‘Fiori’ means ‘Flowers’. Like the word ‘Flora’, which is probably the root word of ‘Florence’.

            But I still came out smelling like a Rose, didn’t I?

        • But here’s the real question, jumping back to Jake’s original post is:

          Does toward mean behind?

          Makes ya think.

          All IMO,
          SRW

  28. Eric S. in a book drew a round Kiva home with a ladder rising from the center and a bench that circles the hole room, would that be right? I thought only Alien spaceships had the bench that circled the ship?

    • Lisa – it could bite me in the but and I wouldn’t feel it right now. You got me so confused. The tones I am hearing right now are misleading me to the wrong bench. Guess I should be looking in another direction.

      • wwwamericana – The tones I am hearing right now were composed for “Close Encounters of the Third Kind” by Steven Spielberg, a client of Forrest’s.

        So hear me all and listen good,
        Your effort will be worth the cold.

        Now I am thinking about that first Black Hole they photographed…and that idiom, “As Above, So Below”. It’s cold Out THERE! And “To boldly go where no man has gone before.” – Startrek

        And I, for one, would like to see that Kiva drawing by Eric Sloane, who has two famous murals in the Air and Space Museum in Washington DC. Could the OTHER Lisa C. please post that Kiva pic?

    • You should visit Bandelier and the reconstructed Great Kiva at Aztec Ruins. Learn and report back to us.

  29. Lisa – That’s quite a combination of thoughts – you do have a very vivid imagination. Perhaps our eyes don’t see what you do.

    • sorry, just looking at multi-able notes I have, did you mean your eyes and not our eyes or are you seeing thou everybody’s eyes but mine?

  30. Hi Lisa,

    Nice write-up on “a word that is key”.

    I haven’t figured out what that “word” is yet, but I’ve got a couple of ideas about what it could be. Nothing with certainty though.

    It makes me wonder:

    What does this word do?

    Why is this word so much more important than any of the other words in the poem (if it is in the poem)?

    And how will we know with certainty that we’ve selected the right word?

    Once found, what are we supposed to do with it? What does it do for us?

    I don’t know. I don’t have any answers. Just a few more things for us to think about for the day, I guess.

    All IMO,
    SRW

  31. I need to get in my cloud box and fig. out who the artist is, when asking the elders questions how do i know what i know is wrong and ask them, if i don’t know the answer i seek? what i mean is how do i know what i know is wrong to get an answer if, i do not know the right answer i’m looking for?

  32. LISA C – You wrote:

    “One word…… one….., “THAT’S IT” there is only one, one lettter…”

    Yes, but maybe, as you subconsciously wrote here, the word that is key is “IT”, which is contained in the line containing the first clue, which Forrest confirmed was in that line:

    Begin it Where Warm Waters Halt

    Still thinking about Where William WORDs Worth wrote about tears in that poem, which was read aloud in that movie, “A River Runs Through It”. Forrest has fond memories of fly fishing on the Madison River, as he wrote about in the preface of his TFTW book.

    And could you please change your blog handle? I can no longer do a search for replies to my comments, since the name you are using is contained in mine.

    Thank you! Great Lisa minds think alike.

    • LISA C. – Let’s read “IT” once again:

      “There’s 10 billion blazes out there. So you have to start with the first clue and let it take you to the blaze.” f

      Is anyone else following what I’m put-in down here? Could “IT” be the Madison River, and then could Madison Canyon be the “canyon down” you take to get to the blaze???

      Why do I feel like I am talking to myself??? Giggles.

    • Speaking about “it:” – I’m gonna call my son as he is an IT specialist. Maybe he will have some ideas (but no imagination). His response to me usually is “GOOGLE IT”

  33. Larry – Google “Earth”. Great post! Thank you for sharing. So many of us use variations of that app as our “good map”. Here on The Chase.

    Now you have me thinking about Earth, the Environment and the Crown of the Continent. A great Nature movie on PBS, featuring wildlife biologist, Douglas Chadwick, is called, “Chasing the Phantom”. Here is Doug’s book:

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7888737-the-wolverine-way

    I have a standing invitation to visit Doug at his home on Flathead Lake, MT, after meeting him at a lecture at the Community Library in Ketchum. He is also a founding board member of Vital Ground, started by Bart the Bear and his human family.

    I have always thought a wolverine would be the best Search Buddy, especially in snowy conditions. They have been known to take on grizzlies, and they are expert diggers. Avalanches are a serious concern up in that terrain right now. I think I will name my new Search Buddy “Shredder”.

  34. Jiminy Christmas y’all – can we talk about something other than STARS? I have my favorite star that is special to me but probably wouldn’t mean diddly to anyone else – that’s what makes this so dang difficult.

    Maybe the blaze is a billboard, or a neon sign. Perhaps it is a rock formation or a discoloration in a hillside. Could it be some sort of geographical or geological anomaly? How about the stripe on the back of a skunk (it was in his book) – we just gotta find the right Skunk. Problem is he keeps running around.

    Wise means “using your head” but Forrest wants us to sprinkle a little imagination in with it. Those two things can be so contradictory – and it truly depends on your age. Didn’t y’all believe in Santa Claus when you were growing up? And the tooth fairy? How about Angels?

    Most of us live in the US – do we not believe in those famous words – “We hold these truths to be self-evident……..” What concrete proof do we have to support that statement? Just like art and nature – it is all in the eyes of the beholder. We see it with our eyes, we feel it in our hearts, and sometimes we just believe in it by Faith.

    My sermon is over – Amen.

    • wwwamericana – Amen to that!

      In this case, we are trying to profile the “beholder”, Forrest Fenn, who wrote the Poem. Put yourself in his aviator shoes or fly fisherman’s felt bottomed, waterproof boots, and what do you see at night? When you look quicly down, to the mirror of Flywater pools in the river or creek, or quickly up, through the cockpit, while flying over Philadelphia? Stars. Lots of Stars.

    • Yes! So true.. forrest told us to get back in the box! Cause many where thinking outside of the poem. For instance….I really dont believe the chase has anything to do with Shakespeare. Everthing points to nature and wood and native things here in the rocky mountains! I agree with you!
      Lou Lee, chased by bears in yellowstone ( jellystone) park and lived to tell the tale.

        • Thank you Lou Lee – sometimes I get carried away and go over the edge a bit too far.

          • No you are not carried away at all. That I see…no not you…..
            Like your posts.
            So funny what you wrote above!

    • wwwamericana – Okay. Let’s try this again. This time, relying on the Uber-Wise professionals from Oxford and Cambridge, who are quite familiar with quests and finding things, to help us find the blaze on The Chase::

      https://youtu.be/tgj3nZWtOfA

      I Spy:

      Sun
      Y
      Cross
      Tree of Life
      The Chest!

      And a very, very vicious Killer Bunny!

      Run away!!!

      • wwwamerricana – I like how you “think outside the box”. Forrest seems to like that kind of thinking, also, on this Abberations page:

        https://dalneitzel.com/2014/11/11/our-war-effort/

        But there is a Holy Hand Grenade for the Killer Bunny in that box the Priest is carrying. With what appears to be a Book of Days inside.

        Hmmmm… that’s probably the right time period for Forrest’s bronze chest, or 100 years too early.

      • wwwamericana – I forgot one. The most important one, IMO:

        I Spy:

        Heart

        “It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye.”

        Antoine de Saint-Exupery

        • Assigning wisdom to a muscle makes about as much sense as
          assigning wisdom to a plate of spaghetti and meatballs . . .

          Oops — it was done by a wise guy. When I am beyond the
          river I need to cross, will I be “past da ferryin’ ” ?

          All IMO, don’tcha know.

        • wwwamericana – Watched it again. The Killer Bunny is described as having, “a vicious streak a mile wide.” Reminds me of Red Streak Peak, towering above my search area. Between White Peak and Sage Peak, on the same ridgeline.

          And, Hark! There’s also a Griffin blaze: the symbol of Archangel Michael. And guardian of treasures!:

          The griffin, griffon, or gryphon (Greek: γρύφων, grýphōn, or γρύπων, grýpōn, early form γρύψ, grýps; Latin: gryphus) is a legendary creature with the body, tail, and back legs of a lion; the head and wings of an eagle; and sometimes an eagle’s talons as its front feet. Because the lion was traditionally considered the king of the beasts and the eagle the king of birds by the Middle Ages the griffin was thought to be an especially powerful and majestic creature. Since classical antiquity, Griffins were known for guarding treasure and priceless possessions.

          I just have to get past My Grizz.

    • Americana,
      I am surprized the chest has not been found yet! With all the smart and talented brains out there!
      I got back in the poem and this summer and spring I will be searching and researching a few places.
      I hope and wish that a underdog
      Like me ….can think like forrest and go to the treasure!
      I will try. Best wishes.

    • Someone who’s in love with motorcycling, I continue to believe in the Hells Angels.

      Did I actually say that?

  35. I think my bus taking me to the institution has finally rolled in and I’m getting on it.

    You should see my hat I’m wearing – looks just like FF’s – cuz my brain has finally blown up.
    https://dalneitzel.com/2018/05/14/hat_contest/

    He loaned it to me to wear for a while and it is soooooo very comfortable.

    • http://www.americana – I am very fond of Forrest’s hat. And that pic. Especially after Dal added the Grizz swimming across the lake.

      I was the first on any of the blogs to publish finding that Stella Lake. In Eastern Nevada. Because of the stone Stela blaze in the foreground. And even though Dal reversed the original pic. Another searcher named 49 dollers found it just after me, because his wife recognized the terrain from a hike they did there.

      Now, let’s take off Forrest’s Holey Hat and put on his Pilot boots.I wondered if he flew jets over jets over that lake, when he was instructing pilots in Arizona for all those years.

  36. The reason folks have not found the treasure is because they keep trying to use everything thing under the outside of the poem for answers to the clues, IMO.

    To justify my statement, Forrest has said several times in the past to *Marry the poem to a map* and to have a comprehensive understanding of geography. Yet there are those who want to quote writers, poets and others that aren’t truly related to the Chase.

    Sure folks were spoken of in his book (TTOTC) and things as well of places. Folks are going over board, just because he mentions there are unintended subtle HINTS in his book and indicates provided you can recognize them. Hints are NOT clues.

    To me the stories are not hints and very well could be just a small word or two to four words that could help with a clue in the poem. Remember that geography is a major theme of the poem, NOT people and what they say.

    Forrest also has indicated that we should THINK and to ANALYZE the clues. I think, one should keep everything inside the box (the poem & a map) and not outside of the box.

    We have some folks that are very educated in certain areas and others not so much. The trouble is that some have gone wild with imagination, when simple imaginations more than likely will have better results, which doesn’t degrade
    anyone’s lack of education or those that are very educated.

    SIMPLIFY always comes to mind and Forrest indicated a couple times to those that are searching. The one thing that almost always that keeps getting in the way is too much imagination, which overly complicates things, I found this to be true over the years working with people in my line of work.

    IMO *some* imagination and *some* comprehensive understanding of geography will go a long way in answering the clues that will enable one to marry all to a map.

    All of you have your own way in trying to find the answers, and I am not saying you all are wrong, its just how I see things. I also feel if one had just the poem and the RM to work with in the four states currently and no Q&A or ATF, one can find the treasure on a map IMO.

    All in all these are just my thoughts. I am greatly thankful to Forrest in sharing his memories and his involvement in the treasure, it always helps to know things about him, understanding him is always hard, unless you were part of his family.

    Just Say’n

    • Hi Charlie M.
      Yes I agree, I said this in a shorter way last night. I truly believe we need to connect the dots. Thats what I am doing now. Poem and Map.
      Thank you for so eloquently saying what I was feeling too.
      I personally have learned so much about the Rocky Mountains. Seven years of study!
      I feel like I could take a test and get a degree in ” Rocky Mountain”
      LOL

    • CharlieM – Excellent post! I totally agree with everything you said.

      I joined The Chase in late February of 2013, when I saw Brian Williams on Nightline talking about it. I determined the locations on my online topo map using only the Poem. And I read stories on Forrest’s blog. I emailed some of that to Forrest in March/April of 2013. Of course, he gave me no confirmation. Shortly thereafter, I nailed down what I truly believe is my hidey spot from among several potential ones surrounding my ridgeline face blaze.

      I have now been spending my time providing the back-up as to why my solution works. Every chance I get. That is why participating in searcher discussions, via blog posts here on Dal’s, interests me so much. All those apparent connections to my long ago solution. So awesome! Plus I enjoy thinking about other ones and comparing them to my original. I get really excited exploring.

      Besides, the last time I attempted a BOTG search was at the end of September, 2016. It was 32 degrees that night and morning, and I only made it in about a half mile. I was warned that bow hunters probably were leaving gut piles from their Elk kills close to the trail. And my fingers were frozen inside my gloves. And then I saw My Grizz’s footprints in the mud. I knew triggering my Bear Spray canister was going to be an issue. And I had 3-4 creek crossings to make. The water is pretty low, then, comparatively. So I turned around and drove home later that day.

      So you see, after several trips to my search area, including during a 100K plus acre fire here in my home town, to escape it, I find myself to be thwarted once again to go to my “alone in there”. So, I might as well continue to find the confidence via these blog confirmations, while I try to create the opportunity to safely and synchronistically search.

      But all in all, this is my journey on The Chase, and I am thoroughly enjoying every minute of it! And I will continue to share, in the hopes of triggering a thought or connection for someone else. Because that’s how I choose to play this game.

      Those that don’t want to read my posts can simply ignore them. As I ignore other posts that seem to be attempting to undermine or criticize my exercising my mental capacities. But I am sure many remember this kind of behavior from kids in school, don’t they? I was the Smart Girl, and kept quiet, so I could fit in. Never gonna do that again! If someone is intimidated, which we all here can see, when it happens, I will always ignore them and continue to do what I want to do. Because that’s what the lead dog does.

      Ok, let’s get back to having FUN posting!!!

      Thanks for listening.

      • Hi Lisa;

        Thanks for the post. Three of my fellow searchers have recently asked, “Who is this Lisa Cesari, and where did she come from?” Of course, my answer was “I don’t know” to both questions. Now we know a bit more.

        Your two posts confused me though. In the big post you say, “Besides, the last time I attempted a BOTG search was at the end of September, 2016”

        You follow this with, “CharlieM – My last BOTG search out Cabin Creek was in late September of 2017. Time flies.” Just curious – JDA

        • JDA – I got the year wrong in the big post, and corrected it.

          And my given name is Elizabeth Anne, after a couple of famous Queens, and there was an 8 pointed star-like Asterisk following my former blog handle initial. Now you probably know why.

          • Jake – Let’s use the Rajah’s deck, because the Elephant in the Room was the General. And that General became the Queen in the French and English Decks.

            So, yes, I will take a 5 pointed Star. But if I really want to be the lead dog, I will need five of those.

            But there is only one Airforce Star on my ridgeline; my “ONE IMPORTANT” blaze.

          • Ya, sometimes the decks are stacked.
            Fenn is the lead dog in this chase.
            I notice we are all trying to think like Fenn which I think is a good thing.
            Ridgeline sounds good.

          • So you should change your blog ID to your real name so you can search your posts easier. LOL

          • joe – I like having a name that is a four letter word. Didn’t Tim in that video about the Medieval Knights and the Killer Bunny say to “taunt” your enemies?

            Welcome back, TimM!

            Sh*t, what do I know, right Ken?

            Einstein said that imagination is more important than knowledge. Google the whole quote. Forrest likes Einstein. And he has a good friend that is a physicist. Like Shiloh has his genius friend, Nick.

            If you want to catch a Rising Star, surround yourself with other like-minded ones. Then you’ll get it. IMO.

          • I remember E* when she started posting. Then there was a hiatus of sorts. I remember what you said to Dal when you came back too….

          • The other ken, not Ken (from Texas) – Sometimes you have to cross the Rubicon River, to be the “lead dog” on The Chase. Even if the Senate stabs you in the back. It was worth the cold. Big Smile.

          • ken – What did I say??? Can you Google the comment and post it here for me, please? I like direct quotes that don’t rely on my sometimes unreliable memory.

          • E.C. Waters – What? The alternate title is, “Actress Putting on Makeup”?? Do you think Norman Rockwell used QE1 for his model, because she loved Shakespeare’s plays at the Globe Theater??

            Another theory only. IMO. Because I am a Deep Thinker. And because QE1 initiated something about the law of trover; the possible basis of, “Finders keepers, Losers sweepers”.
            I think I’ll quit playing The Fool and step into the roll of The Ringer on The Chase, now.

            What say you, Ken (from Texas)?

      • Y’all kinda implied that y’all are the lead “dog”. Hah! If that’s true, then
        y’all’s avatar is mis*lead*ing. Hah! As always, IMO. Hah!

        • Tall Andrew – The “lead dog” I was referring to was Forrest, like when he blew all the other gallery owners in Santa Fe away with his leadership of Fenn Galleries. Now little Willie probably runs the show.

          But since my namesake was a Queen, I will say that both QE1 and QE2 have been Stellar at miss*lead*ing the countries of England and Scotland, for record time periods. But Queen Anne lost her crown-head (Axe), and my ancestor, Julius Caesar, never was a crowned head (Senate Jabs).

          But I’m gonna cross that Rubicon River. It’s worth the cold.

    • Ya CM,
      That was pretty good. I do agree with most of what you stated.
      But I think the comprehensive geography was a maybe? Either way I think you should marry the clues in the poem to places, directions or things physically on a map including the X which I think is the blaze.

  37. Well the bases are loaded
    It’s the bottom of the ninth
    Cardinals 9 Searchers Zip
    Ho look it’s Dizzy Dean
    coming to the mound
    Strike 1&2&3 time for
    a six pack of JAX BEER.

  38. CharlieM wrote: “The reason folks have not found the treasure is because they keep trying to use [sources] outside of the poem for answers to the clues, IMO.”
    ————————————————————————-
    Charlie, I have been saying that for at least a year.

    I think a lot of searchers have given up on the poem. They can’t figure it out. So they resort to the scrapbooks, other Fenn books, and celebrity searchers on YouTube for help. Which reeks of desperation.

    And while searchers acknowledge that FF said that geography might help, I don’t think for a moment that many of them have tried to learn geographic concepts applicable to the treasure hunt. Most people in our society, generally, have no desire to LEARN ANYTHING. They think they already know it all.

    In the treasure hunt, this arrogance shows up all the time in posted messages that claim the writer thinks he or she knows where the chest is at, after having spent all of 2 days on TTOTC or the poem.

    It’s common for message board posters to say that the chest will be found in 2019. Ha ha. Not at the rate they’re going. There might be 1 or 2 searchers who have made significant progress unbeknownst to the rest of us, but among the “chase community” I see no progress (none whatsoever) toward solving the puzzle, in the 4 years I have been around.

    Ken (in Texas)

    • Ken (in Texas): “Most people in our society, generally, have no desire to LEARN ANYTHING. They think they already know it all.”

      Fake news again Ken?
      Where do you get your stats from?
      When we were young we thought we knew it all and now that we are older we know we know it all. LOL

      • Funny Ken. I tell my kids all the time that I know it all. My youngest – who is a real quick wit – always has some comeback though.

        Whenever this type of topic comes up I think of the “known unknowns, unknown unknowns” thing! At the time I thought it weird he would go into all that in the public view, but the concept of it all is so logically true. 🙂

  39. So after a long hiatus from The Chase, Dal’s blog and any research, I am trying to get back into the groove. After getting within a mile and a half of my search area last year before getting turned back by the storm of the century, I seemed to lose just about all interest in the chase. I know that people get burned out and tend to take a break, this was different… I didn’t want to hear or read anything to do with it. Now, I’m struggling to garner any interest, and I think I have a pretty compelling solution.

    I’ve brushed up on the blog a little bit and I’ve gone over my notes from my solve… I think I will try to search one last time this season and possibly call it quits. I think I’ve been involved for the better part of 5 years and I really don’t think I can top the solution I have now.

    So, I’ve got a couple of questions for anyone willing to answer…

    Have you ever had a dry spell where you just lost all interest in the chase? If so, how did you climb back in the saddle?

    And this one I may have asked a few years ago but I don’t remember… How much weight do you put in the “500 feet” and “200 feet” distances as a gauge to how feasible your final spot is?

    As far as my solution and end point, I determined it by the research and didn’t consider those distances as a tool to narrow down the search area. Now I see how a person can be 500 or 200 feet away from the chest.

    I thought maybe if I asked these questions on the blog it might spark something inside to boost my enthusiasm… I appreciate any responses!

    TimM

      • Bob#302,

        I sort of told him. I had been working on my solution for a while so after I felt pretty confident in it, I sent him an email explaining it and the path I would take and why. I think I sent it last winter, long before the search season would begin and before I would know my travel dates. Just before traveling I sent an email to tell him I was preparing to go search and roughly where I would be, mainly because i was going alone and wanted someone to know where I would be. My wife also knew the area but if something were to happen she was more than halfway across the country. Forrest never responded to any of my emails.

        TimM

    • TimM,

      Yes you can leave the chase for many reasons and I have done it too. It tends to draw you back, especially the blogs, wondering if anyone has found it or if there is more information to help with your past or new clue solves.
      Tim look at the big picture, did you enjoy searching all the research you did, and when you didn’t have a storm to coop with, did you enjoy searching?

      As for me yes the 500′ point and the 200′ point plays into my solve very nicely but will find out more when I go back out in the next month. So I would consider those points.

      Just so you know I’ve been in the chase since Feb 2011, so yes sometimes not finding what your looking for in that timeline might send many back home to stay.

      I suggest do another botg to that area you tried last and enjoy the trip. If it doesn’t pan out, then decide if this chase is to much of a challenge or you want to beat Fenn at his game.

      Good luck,
      Bur

      • Thanks Bur!

        I plan at least one more BOTG but I’m not sure when I’ll be able to go this year. I did enjoy the trip last year, except for the weather that wouldn’t cooperate. I’m hoping I get a lot more enthusiasm by the time I’m able to travel… right now I’m working about 130 hours every 2 weeks at work and vacations aren’t guaranteed.

        Thanks for the encouragement!

        TimM

        • By the way Tim if your wife enjoys the chase take her so your not alone. Mine did a couple of searches with me but has lost interest so I search alone a lot. If you are searching alone watch where you put your foot, sometimes the ground moves. Lol

          Always stay safe,
          Bur

          • Bur,

            My wife went once with me just because she had never been to the Rocky’s before. She really has no interest in the chase either.

            As for watching my footing. I learned that my first time out a few years ago when I heard rattlesnakes sing out from both sides of the path I was walking. When I got back to where I parked the car, I checked underneath before getting close and as I started to drive away, a 4 foot rattler decided to cross the dirt road in front of me. Do they make snake spray??

            TimM

          • Oh my this has me screaming when you talk about snakes.
            Guess I better put on some heavy boots before I head out hiking. I always keep them in my truck which is packed with all the necessities I might need. Problem is sometimes I walk too far before I realize there is something
            I should have grabbed. So I either have to back track or continue on unequipped. Just can’t seem to think of everything. I never forget my chocolate bars tho – LOL

          • TimM – Walk softly, and carry a big stick. Like Forrest’s shadow does, on the cover of TFTW. Great for fly fishing in the river or for crossing creeks.

            This an excellent book to get a comprehensive knowledge of the why nots of our geography here in the Northwest:

            https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4668676-the-wilderness-warrior

            I saw Doug speak at the local library, then I read the 800 page plus book. Because I like to learn things, Ken. Like Forrest does.

          • Very generous and wise advice in your post. I hope searchers feel the same way. To some this is a game. I think more for myself it’s a challenge to an accomplishment that I can only try to understand. So I can’t quit. I’m sure there are many others like me out there.
            Let’s have a great adventure
            GH

          • GrassHopper – Thank you for your appreciation! I will not quit, either. Ever. That was nod to Eric Sloane.

            Here is a link to fishing with your ‘kind’ below my WWWH. You can enter, “hopper”, in the Find in Page field under the three dots menu to see the helpful fly fishing locations references. I think you would enjoy “IT”; I mean, adventuring
            at Grasshopper Bank. Look quickly down.

            https://www.yellowstoneflyfishing.com/madison.htm

            Sharing is caring.

        • TimM – advice from your friendly medical professional: my diagnosis is that there is a possibility that the reason your enthusiasm diminished is because you are exhausted from the demands of your grueling work week in addition to family, other personal responsibilities etc. At the very least, you need a vacation!

          My addditional advice is….”Marie Kondo” the Chase. If it doesn’t bring you joy, get rid of it (or hide it in a back closet somewhere). Forrest has talked about “being consumed” by a passion; his many loves in life. He has also talked about knowing when it is time to end a relationship. If this smoldering passion flames up for you again, make the ride, take the trip! Embrace it! In the end, it’s about feeding your soul, not finding the treasure. If the passion isn’t there, find another. Love your life and all the chases it brings!

          Welcome back, I’ve enjoyed your posts over the years.

          • Thanks Sandy!

            My wife is a medical professional too and she told me I needed a break from work! I am a 911 dispatcher and so far I’ve only had 5 days off since Christmas. Thankfully, I have 2 days off this weekend… And I’m sure you’re right, I’m exhausted!!

            What is the old saying?… Don’t be so busy making a living that you forget to make a life!

            Now if I can just be fortunate enough to find that chest, I can retire and do woodworking for fun!!!

            Thanks again!
            TimM

    • Go where your heart tells you to go and if you’re not having fun doing it then step back for a while and take it from there.

      Fenn said the 200′ was pretty accurate (paraphrasing) but I think that comment came out in 2013 when there weren’t many searchers which makes me think it may have been embellished a bit to get more involved.

    • @ Lisa…In the spirit of sharing, if you hit “Ctrl + F” it brings up the find box as well. 🙂

        • LOL…the keyboard shortcut seemed like an easier way to describe the process than how you did it for Grasshopper—-unless you were intentionally doing it the Fenn way! LOL

          • Bowmarc – I am using a Moto G phone with a tiny little screen. I know many use phones now vs. computers.My instructions were based on that.

            Working for Forrest? Hardly. But I have been an Executive Assistant frequently in the past. My boss at that fruit company called me, “Radar”.

            I have always wanted to meet Forrest’s former assistant at the Fenn Galleries. She sounded like she was imdespensible. I am sure she would be a formidable opponent on The Chase.

            Sometimes it is good to be the Elephant in the Room, or the Fly on the Wall, right, Jake?

    • I think any and all talk about 500 or 200 feet away from the chest is nothing but a rabbit hole that won’t help anyone solve the poem.

      I suggest you bounce your ideas, 1 at a time, off of different folks you trust (so
      none of the folks know them all). It could be done without being too specific.
      For example, if you think “water high” could mean clouds, you could ask
      someone their opinion about it, and this doesn’t indicate what area you are considering.

      I also suggest you pay attention to some of the phrases you see on the blogs
      overandoverandoverandoverandoverandoverandoverandoverandoverandover
      — as if several folks posting are all Forrest Fenn trying to hammer home his
      point . . . about having the first clue NAILED DOWN, or that you should try to
      MARRY THE CLUES TO A MAP (paraphrased maybe).

      As always, this entire message is part of my opinion. Good luck to all of us.

      • Thanks Tall Andrew.

        I have one person that I work with that was helping me research things a few years ago. He seemed to lose interest but he knows enough about the chase to bounce ideas off of. The best part about talking to him is that he tries to poke holes in my theory instead of agreeing with me. It forces me to look at my solution from a different perspective.

        As for having the first clue nailed down and marrying the clues to a map, I’ve got that covered. I’m not certain that my solve is right but I can follow it like a roadmap right to where I think it is… also, other things that FF said seems to confirm my solution… like I know why you need to wait for the mud to dry… why he said the chest is at the end of his rainbow. And why he says to take a flashlight and sandwich… even though he said these aren’t clues I think they are just meant as a way to confirm your solution. I could be wrong… I probably am.

        Anyway, thanks for the response!

        TimM

  40. Folks, folks, folks, Where is the love?
    I used to say, to anyone who would listen, that between me and my dad we knew everything. Go ahead, ask me anything……..and then if I didn’t know it I would simply say…..my dad knows that one. Dad has been gone for along time but he would have loved this chase. I also recognize that my dad would have had the good sense to give up on this a long time ago. My dad was a wise man.
    I have been watching and thinking about this chase for nearly seven years. I have my latest theory and intend to see it through. I don’t want to be the one of the “I know where its at” people but I feel real good. If I didn’t have some kind of confidence, I wouldn’t go.
    This is what I’ve done. I married the poem to a map. What I found is that you cant get there from here. The route that plots out is an impassable route and I’ll have to take an alternate journey to reach my destination. Many hints, a lot in 2015, have been dropped into play and only seem to confirm my line of thinking. Go time approaches. I have spent a lifetime in the mountains. I have gone alone, deep into the rugged San Juans more times than I can count. I consider my self experienced in the woods. My loving, patient and indulging wife will go BOTG with me. I have assured her our safe passage will be priority one.
    Here is the thing, and I go back to the my fist line……where is the love? Greed rules all in the chase. Nobody shares their precious information, myself included. If nine years ago someone had stared a registrar of places people had really searched, man I mean really searched, this baby could have been found in just a couple of years. If we had all worked together…if only.
    I have enjoyed some aspects of the blogs, face book groups and such, I have not enjoyed just as many. With more luck than an average human will ever know in a lifetime I will find the chest we seek. I sent my “solve” to Forrest last fall and was very specific. I asked him if my secret would be safe with him until spring. Forrest told me that if I wanted to keep my secret, that I should not tell anyone. Typical Forrest response! He really has been amazing through all of this. His level of self restraint has been an incredible thing of beauty. I have much appreciation.
    This has all been fun. It could never have gotten me out into the mountains more than I have already been, I have been lucky already. It has made me think, and that’s the part that I like. Matching wits with someone who has hidden something for all to seek. I will check out of this cyber world of madness when I have completed my quest. I will miss the wisdom of a few of you. If I don’t find it, I hope that someone finds it soon, lives need to be restored.
    As for where I think it is, I’m headed back to Wyoming. I have that very specific spot that I feel that I could go to in any weather. I have plotted my course and there is no short cut.
    Do you want to know where it is? Ask my dad, he knows that one.
    Good luck to all….be safe.
    SJM

    • SanJuanMan – I agree with all you said. Thank you for sharing with us!

      Love is the answer. All you need is love.

      In my solve, the blaze ‘closest to the chest’ is a heart. It’s about 200′ away. And the closest human trail is about 500′ away. That was for you, Jake.

      • Jake – That’s the other one. The Cour Napoleon at the entrance to the Louvre is below the two intersecting pyramids. And my first love is below my pyramid hidey spot, also. I have wondered if Forrest took Peggy there, possibly referenced in the first stanza of the Poem. Maybe SHE is also Forrest’s “treasures bold”?

        Don’t tell anyone I said that, Jake! It’s my “secret where”.

        “After all the stops and starts, we keep coming back to these two hearts. Two angels rescued from the fall, and after all that we’ve been through, it all comes down to me and you. I guess it’s meant to be, forever, you and me, after all.” – Peter Cetera

        He lives here in Sun Valley, also. Where else would I live, considering my STAR blaze on The Chase?

        • Jake – August is a good time to go on the.Chase in the Rockies. Here is a pic of my True Blue Heart in the Rockies from Google Earth:

          https://www.instagram.com/p/Bt3rHxTgtdm/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=zo36wl7edwdt

          I went “alone in there” in early August, and slept overnight on the shore, under the stars. What do you mean, “the treasure is not in Idaho…”, Forrest?

          You can click on my name above to see the pics I took from that spot. The same place my 80 year old friend always hiked up to from his house in Stanley to go skinny dipping. You can only find that treasure if you study beforehand. The trail is not marked for the gnarly last vertical mile. It’s only for mountain goats like me.

          • Nice pics,
            I’ll bet that heart is cold to the bone. I would get a nice blaze going before cleansing my body to halt the shivers when drying out.
            Bear Grylls taught me this.

        • Jake – Still think the word that is key is “Flywater”. Read this article, originally published by Forrest in the West Yellowstone News. Especially the final paragraph. I believe he replaced the “you” in the last sentence with “Peggy” when he published it in his book.

          https://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/opinions/columnists/memories-of-the-past-enrich-our-present/article_c682c24f-bc3f-5167-89d2-bee111f540db.html

          That fits my “secret where” heart blaze perfectly. It is formed by the surrounding pine grove.

          • This stuck out in my mind.
            “Many others who have loved these waters before and after me understand that catching fish is not what it’s about.”

            Yes, in TTOTC he says: “knowing Peggy was there, waiting for me. “

          • Jake – Thank you for catching that “waters” reference. It is heartening to know someone like you is following my blaze in my posts. Somehow,.I knew you would be the right one to see what I see in The Chase. With the Wise Eyes of your heart.

          • Jake – Here’s that pic:

            https://500px.com/photo/268870209/colors-of-goat-lake-one-by-lisa-cesari?ctx_page=1&from=user&user_id=21418691

            Another 81 year old friend and his 80 year old wife ski Bald Mountain here all Winter long. Gerry gave me my Nikon d5000, but I haven’t used it yet for pics. All those on my 500px site were taken with my Moto G phone camera with 3 megapixels and processed.with Google Photos.

            If.I didn’t have tree roots at my feet, I would have slid off the edge and dropped 10 feet into the water as I slept. Right there. But I have learned a lot from Bear Grylls, also. Get those wet clothes off, pronto, Jake!

          • “I can see what others see but I like to see what I see”
            Those geysers still skiing around 80?
            My knees would be pretzelized. I switched to snowboarding and took it on the chin a few times but haven’t done that since i moved to FL. 🙁

            I could tell the resolution was not great and I didn’t see anyone skinny dipping, I’m trying to find it on GE.
            Gotta have at least 8mp pref w/zoom.

            Saved by the tree roots! They usually trip me up.

          • Jake – Meanwhile, I looked up Eric Sloane’s real name, Everard, thinking it might be like Richard the Lionheart. But it turns out to be:

            Brave boar or Wild boar

            The end is EVER drawing nigh…

            My Grizz also fits that name meaning perfectly.

          • Jake – Sorry. Just looked up the Moto G specs: 5MP and 3.5mm focal length.

            I carried the Nikon d5000 with an 18-70mm Nikkor lens and extra batteries to do an overnight at Alice Lake in the Sawtoothswith my bedroll this past September. A huge storm started brewing, so I headed back down. I think that was 7 hours total. Can’t remember the elevation gain, but less steep than Goat Lake.

          • No thanks for any instagram photos.
            I just clicked on the pic and it showed a bunch of political ads then I went back to click again to enlarge it and didn’t work.

            It’s a nice large thumbnail though. The real question is where is the original, I would love to see that and maybe use as wallpaper.

          • Jake – On Richard the Lionheart and EVER and the Lion as the X in Infinity with the Eagle as the Omega:

            “Alfa as a Bull and Omega as an Eagle, the omega have even two wings, man gets wings. The central transition as a Lion, the X, the heart and soul of humanity.”

            Looking for the leminiscate 3 graphic link.

            And for a Gold Double Eagle = Double Omega in the bronze chest.

  41. Well, went back to Finca Viga again and another story opened a different interpretation for me on the words ‘hear me all and listen good’. The word “all” may not mean the listening audience. “Good” is a slang variable… the word “well’ would mean comprehend, but ‘good’ means the sound is clearly heard.
    So, the kid in the story is in a shooting competition, I don’t know if the pigeons are clay or real but they are released from 5 different traps. The kid notices the 2nd trap has a louder release mechanism than the others. He has an advantage.

  42. As Spring approaches and we all come out of hibernation, it made me realize that our search is just beginning for the new year. May you all stay safe and be blessed with good fortune which comes to us in so many ways.

    A Searcher’s Prayer:

    The shadows they fall with the night
    and then the stars appear shining so bright;
    to light my way through the dark,
    upon my journey I will embark.
    Oh God grant me thy wisdom in this quest
    that I shall and will do nothing but my very, very best.

  43. I predict that the next SB that will come out will not be 200 but something less.

    • Clever. Like 100 people who have 200 ankles and feet and a thousand toes somewhere within the great O (or great eye) search area? It definitely does seem exciting, at first glance, if Miss Red.

  44. I have heard from a very reliable source, my brother-in-law, received the May 2019 issue of Reader’s Digest, they did a story about Forrest Fenn. Our issue is expected to arrive towards the last days of May. I do not know what the story read is, nor what was covered.

    Just a heads up!

    • Diggin gypsy is in it! You can try to read it online but I heard that are asking for $ to do so.

    • CharlieM – Dal is already on this. The May issue’s online publication date is April 30th. Y’all could probably just run over to your local grocery store to get the May issue now. My source has a Shadow that looks suspiciously like mine. Giggles.

      • Amber – No personal subscription, but my figth grade teacher thought we all should read it. I remember doing that, and having to do an Oral Report on the parts of the ear. I kinda still remember those.

        I do remember reading National Geographic, cover to cover, while growing up. And now I follow some of their best photographers online.

        • Makes me wonder whether Readers Digest did an article called
          I learned about figth, lipth, and lisps before I was in fifth grade.
          Later, I started reading Readers Digest. Did they have an
          article called “I am Joe’s Ear”? I read some similar ones, starting with “I am Joe’s Heart”. In those days, Joe’s brain was considered to be above his heart. Jest sayin’.

          Something about Fenn’s treasure hunt might be appropriate here. Rumor has it that the new Readers Digest article implies or states that the treasure was buried by Mr. Fenn. This makes me wonder about the future of journalism.
          Smiles. Gasps. Groans. I’d add “Winks.” — but that might be too much of a hint. All IMO.

  45. Question?????

    Does anyone have Forrest’s statement about -(something like) The clues in poem are like a road map to the treasure. Not even sure if this is even halfway correct.
    Your help is appreciated.
    Bur

    • Hi Bur;

      This may not be the one you want, but it is as close as I could come:

      Hi Fenn,
      I’ve read your wonderful books and they didn’t help me one iota. The poem with your precious 9 clues is ambiguous, which means absolutely worthless in my opinion. I don’t think the bronze box can be found using the information that is currently available. I have arm chaired this thing to death. Why don’t you give me something I can chew on?
      Thanks for nothing, Outta Here

      Well Mr. Outta There, I will give you something to chomp on.
      Stop arm chairing that thing to death and get out in the trees where the “box” is, but before you go, look at the poem as if it were a map, because it is, and like any other map, it will show you where to go if you follow its directions. f Good luck – JDA

      • Sounds pretty clear to me having the right map or finding right one. I’ve searched the trees and every were else it seems. I had my map upside down. Still trying to read it.
        I like what I hear on the blogs these days.
        I can’t keep up with Lisa, hard to tell what kind of map she has. Just playing.
        When where and how be the questions for us all.
        GH

      • Sure looks like the one JDA. Not sure if there is another one like it or close to him saying the poem is a map.

        Thanks JDA.
        You diffidently have a lot more of Fenn’s statements down pat, more so the I.

        Thanks again,
        Bur

        • JD’s is a good one. There’s also this one, though it references “each clue” rather than “the poem.”

          *** *** *** ***
          Dear Forrest, What’s more important in solving the search, a greater knowledge (“knowlege”) of Toponymy or Geography? ~Chris

          “I don’t know how Toponymy can help you at all Chris (I had to look that word up). But if you knew the geographic location of each clue it would be a map to the treasure.” f
          *** *** *** ***

          Jake

          • Jake,

            Thanks for that other Forrest reply. I have to get a better memory. I do a lot of copy and pasting in another computer strictly for the chase and there is a lot of info to go through that I have over the years. I have to better organize it, most is in one big file named Forrest Fenn.
            Time for a sarsaparilla.

            Thanks for the info and Good Luck,
            Bur

          • reiterate… “…if you knew the geographic location of each clue it would be a map to the treasure.” To me, this comment seems rather clear that each clue reference has a relevant place on the correct map. Whether the clues are near to each other or some distance apart, I believe each has a specific location. “…and like any map, it will show you where to go if you follow its directions.” This seems to debunk some theories that some clues may refer to the same place.

          • Ken, for me each clue solve does have a specific location and they can be followed like a map. In fact if you have the right map they are all shown except for the blaze.

            Thanks for the input and good luck.
            Bur

        • Bur;

          Thanks for the compliment, but I have to rely on “Chasing Words of Forrest Fenn… Memory is not what it once way 🙂

          re “Poem is a map” – how about this “non answer: Hi Forrest, we are now aware that the poem is a map. If the poem is a map and will tell us exactly where to go, why couldn’t the little girl from India get past the first two clues? I think it’s because after solving all nine clues from home, the ocean prevents her from journeying to the precise location to retrieve the treasure chest. ~ Lagerta the Bold

          Dear Whoever Asked This Question,
          Thanks for answering it for me. f

          Have a GREAT day Bur – JDA

      • Thanks for sharing that JD. The other main thing is “unlocking the key” and the
        “Key Word” Forrest has also mentioned.
        We just are not sure which one.
        Seems like with all the smart people out there this treasure Box would of been found by now!, right?

        But here is the thing…..Forrest hid the treasure and wrote the poem and well of course he is above average in smarts, even though he did not go to college and get a Master’s etc.
        Think like Forrest, read his books to get to know him.
        He had alot of intelligent people to help him write his story and proof it.
        Look past all that. Look at who he is, how he thinks….
        He is a adventurer! What drives him? Fishin, looking for Lewis and Clark…thats big and all things Native American. To name a few.
        And X markes the spot!
        Basic stuff, Fenn stuff.
        Not complicated. No PHD required. In fact I believe that could hinder a person.

        This post is a response not just to JD and Bur, but for all the new searchers on this site.

        Best wishes to all and have a great Easter! Happy hunting.

        • Lou Lee,

          I made it a point to try and understand Forrest. I even wrote him on some thoughts I had about him and his reply was.

          “I read your letter (my real name) and found it interesting. It is easy to see that
          you have spent a lot of time trying to figure things out. Good luck to you
          in the future. f”

          So yes, getting to know Forrest can maybe help in this quest.

          P.S the word that is key is in TTOTC book IMO. But you might already know that.

          Good luck,
          Bur

          • Bur, thanks for sharing your correspondence with Forrest!
            I really must admit I am not sure what the Key word is. I think I have idea’s but not sure.
            So do you think the Key is in the book? But not a word in the poem?
            I get so mixed up on this! Could you or anyone help me with this?

            Sometimes I get lost in all of this. I could use some help.
            I just keep trying.

          • Lou Lee,

            My word that is key confirms what and where WWWH. There a couple of small hints that confirm the word that is key. This what I have found.

            Fixin to have some nasty weather very soon here. Possible tornado or waterspouts, need to get ready.

            Happy Easter to you too and all the other searcher out there.

            Bur

          • Lou Lee;

            I, of course, do not KNOW that the “Word that is key” is – but here are my thoughts. 1) I believe that the word is in the poem.
            2) I believe that this word appears more than once.
            3) I, like Bur, believe that it will tell us where or how to find WWWH.
            4) I think Forrest meant for it to be a secret that only the finder of Indulgence will have figured out – JMO – JDA

          • Lou Lee… There are literally thousands of comments to read about the * word that is key* and many theories. There are many folks who have sworn up and down that they know, and most of those folks are not around to talk about it any longer. There is/are some that think they initiated Fenn’s original comment and believe they have some inside angle that no one else has and would debate one to pieces about it. The truth is…that comment is fairly old, and so far, it has not panned out very well for nary a soul. It makes sense that the word is in the poem….

          • Lou Lee –

            The “word that is key” has assumed secret powers it was never intended to have, I think, often even morphing into a Key Word.

            I’ve shared mine on several iterations of that topic here on HoD, most recently (I think) here:

            https://dalneitzel.com/2017/12/09/the-key-word-7/#comment-589375

            It doesn’t reveal any locations or decode any synonyms, it’s not a gamebuster.

            I think it was simply ff pointing out the corrective for the “searchers w/in 200 feet who figured the first two clues and then walked past the chest” scenario.

            He uses it in stanza 1 to tell us what he did when he hid it; again in stanza 2 to tell us one move needed to go get it; and yet again in stanza 6 when he defines the overall victory conditions.

            And he even helpfully included it in the oddly-worded sentence he wrote to tell us there is such a word.

            Have a Merry Easter, or a Nor’Wester, or any other choice of spring weekends!

            Jake

  46. I stomped my arm chair and came up with the most UNBELIEVABLE solve of a lifetime! It doesn’t matter if I’m right or wrong, I LOVE THE CHASE!
    I only WISH I had the opportunity and good health to go look. I say to the people who are PHYSICALLY ABLE TO GO INTO THE MOUNTAINS,…….. GO and HAVE THE TIME OF YOUR LIFE!!!!! Cause this little piggy has gotta go wee wee wee AT HOME!

    Have fun everybody and be safe!

  47. Ya All,

    I want to wish all to have a nice Easter! I feel bad that the French and visitors lost a place to celebrate Easter. I wish the best for all effected, what a terrible loss.

  48. To All;

    Stanza #1 – to some it is a hint. To some, it is a clue even though Forrest has said that “Begin it, where warm waters halt…” is the first clue. I happen to believe that Stanza #1 is a prelude or introduction or preface to the poem. Regardless of what we call it, I think that it gets forgotten by most, and I think that that is a mistake.

    “As I have gone alone in there
    And with my treasures bold,
    I can keep my secret where
    And hint of riches new and old…”

    “AS” can mean since – So, is Forrest saying that Since he (Forrest) went alone in there (somewhere) that we too should be alone when we go to the place that Indulgence is secreted? Is this a warning of some kind? Or is there a different meaning? Is Forrest saying that there is a place (as yet unknown to the searcher) that we must physically enter – even though Forrest has said it is NOT in a cave) – in order to find Indulgence? Is Forrest hinting that this is a small enclosed space that will accommodate only one person since he went “alone” in there?

    All good questions that a searcher needs to evaluate. IMO

    “And with my treasures bold…” Is Forrest referring to only the chest and its contents? Or are there other “Treasures” that Forrest took INTO the hidey spot? Could “Treasures” be memories? Memories of his childhood – young adulthood – Vietnam – Family memories – his early family that he grew up with or his own family? – Or even memories of the place itself where Indulgence is secreted? Memories of times long past, when this place was first created by God or Mother Nature?

    More good questions. Do the questions need to be answered???

    “I can keep my secret where…”

    MY, my, what strange wording… an incomplete thought – “I can keep my (the) secret where Indulgence is secreted, for as long as it takes…” … or is there some other hidden meaning in these words? I have pondered this line for 40 months, and still question whether I have figured it out or not. HUMMM???? What are your thoughts?

    “And hint of riches new and old.”

    Forrest could be saying that he can drop hints about the whereabouts of Indulgence in books ar ATF comments or even on the blogs. … or is there a deeper meaning? Could he (Forrest) be saying that there is a hint here that involves something old that is in the chest, and that figuring out what this “old” thing is (and what it means) could lead to “new” riches for the person that figures it all out – Indulgence???

    So many unanswered questions, and yet so little conversation about this stanza. Am I making it too complex? Maybe there are no real secrets hidden in this stanza, but I doubt it. I think that this stanza actually holds the secret where Indulgence is hidden, or how to find her – But what do I know? Probably nada.

    I hope that others have given thought to this stanza, and reply with their thoughts.

    Thanks all for listening – JDA

    • More attention has been given to f’s responses to q’s on MW than to the first stanza, for sure. He pretty much invited the inattention when he said that WWWH is the first clue. Plus, there is the classicist argument that poetry (as well as literature, theater, music) has an intro, a middle and an end, with open and close intended to be more style than substance, and substance concentrated in the middle. I discount it, personally. But this year, as every one since he hid the TC, I hike where I want to hike within the search area with no clear definition of WWWH or location of HOB. Lovin every moment of it!

    • I think the only reason why searchers look to the 1st stanza and others is the old statement where you only need the poem.
      If there was any information in the poem that gives you WWWH, I think the treasure would have been found.

      Here’s my take:
      Fenn went alone in the place to hide his treasure and that’s pretty bold to do what he did maybe even atrocious.
      It’s a secret where obviously because he’s the only one alive that knows.
      The treasure doesn’t have all the riches new and old but just a hint as in a small amount.

      Remember the Q about being no back story and just the poem years down the road?

      Hello Forrest, If in 500 years all a person has is the poem, and no back story: they don’t know “in the rocky mountains north of santa fe” or that there are 9 clues etc. Could a person reasonably just use the words in the poem and find your treasure chest? Thank you ~Nope

      Thank you Nope. Nope. f

      We want so desperately for there to be a location or hint for WWWH that we will make it up just to satisfy what we think we know. IMO

      • You could well be right Jake – but somehow I think that there is more to these four lines – but who knows – JDA

        • Speculation, but not growing on my ranch.
          I, one, one = coordinates
          Treasure = Montana
          New and old = New Mexico
          Bold = Colorado
          I could go on and on but either way it seems futile considering you need the back story according to Fenns statement above.

          Some may even side track and think “As I have gone alone in there” may point directly to “So why (Wyoming) is it that I must go”.

          Some of us need “confirmation bias” and some don’t. Those 500 years down the road don’t have that, so why should others here in this day and age have it? No confirmation of WWWH whatsoever until you find the treasure. What does that tell you?
          It tells me there is no confirmation of any kind, of any clue in the poem until you find the treasure.

          Simple logic.

          • Some of us need “confirmation bias” and some don’t. –
            I would say, “Some of us need “confirmation ” and some don’t. Not sure about the need for bias – 🙂 JDA

          • There is only one confirmation and no one has found it yet but many are bias.
            Fenn’s poem is the same now as it will be 500 years from now. That is the one constant. If you can understand that.
            There are no shortcuts.

          • Confirmation has been gushing on the blogs for years,
            but is not easy for everyone to recognize. I’m not saying
            this mainly to brag, but to make the point that hints have
            been forthcoming pretty frequently. I suspect that many
            (if not most) of ’em have been posted by FF himself, as
            someone without a good/great/perfect solve wouldn’t know enough to structure the hints in they way they exist as posted.

            I don’t believe that the poem contains the “word that is key” (as FF meant). I saw the word in TTOTC, though,
            and believe that the printed word exists in less than
            five places in each printed copy/volume of that book. In other words, the word is not extremely common such as “the”. I tink that the poem can be solved without relying on knowledge of what the word is. Its role is mainly to serve as a hint that may help to confirm that someone has correctly solved most of the clues. As always, IMO.

    • Nice write-up, JDA! I certainly agree that there may be some useful bits hidden in plain sight within the first stanza, possibly even the elusive “word that is key”. It does not seem like good form for a Chaser to completely ignore an entire sixth of the poem.

      I wonder if “I can keep my secret where” relates to stanza 5 in which he asks “so why is it that I must go and leave my trove for all to seek?” He doesn’t really give us an answer to that question, but only the assurance that Forrest knows what it is. I’m not sure that even the one who finds the treasure will discover the answer to that particular question.

      • Blex;

        Connecting stanza #1 and 5 might work. Also, Stanza #1 – Secret where… and Stanza #2 “Begin it where…” could be a connection of some kind???? Who knows? Thanks for the post – JDA

        • Afana – Do you mean it is answered blatantly within the text of the poem, hidden within some sort of secret code in the poem, or is it implied that the answer somehow is linked to finding the chest?

          If it’s that last one, I understand if you do not want to share more.

          • Blex, the poem is the text used, and therefore it’s implied and applied to finding the chest. No codes imo.

      • Blex,

        Forrest has told us the answer to the question in the 5th stanza many times over as to why, and for whom. Are you forgetting his comments on this subject for the main reason of “Recession”?

    • JDA, You’ve asked some insightful questions that one Must answer for themselves. IMO, the one who finds the TC has already asked and answered these questions, and is then confident to go straight to the TC. if not then there’s still work to be done. JMO and position only.

      • Afana…these thoughts/questions have been discussed ad infinitum with no real solid consensus. Some agree…some do not. It is true that each searcher needs to be confident…and I’ll add this comment from Fenn 6/13/2014 Q’s with Forrest
        “I think your question is wrought from misinformation. I have no real feelings about when the treasure might or might not be found. But eventually sounds too far away. The treasure is there for the person who can find it and I think that person will be positive in their attitude and deliberate in their actions. No one has any special information that will take them to the hiding place. It’s in the poem for all to see. f”
        This sure seems to indicate there is every reason to believe that a person can figure things out by deciphering the poem using the good research materials Fenn told us…

        • ken and Afana – Do you think the “word that is key” in the Poem could be “IT”?:

          “The treasure is there for the person who can find ‘IT’ and I think that person will be positive in their attitude and deliberate in their actions.”

          Ad Infinitum. Until Bessie comes home with the bronze chest.

    • Hi JDA,

      Agree with you 100%. Although the first stanza contains no clues, each line in that stanza finds support in my solve and IMO anyone who discounts that stanza may be might be missing some helpful hints. Of course, the problem is that confirmation bias can really get in the way, and we bring our own ideas of what we want those phrases to mean – an obvious example of confirmation bias is the interpretation that “new and old” points to the treasure being in New Mexico.

      I had an answer for secret where, turned out to be wrong when I went BOTG. I have a new answer that fits nicely. Willing to discuss privately in email if you wish to do so. Given some of the things you share about your solve my guess would be you may have already considered one way to interpret those words.

      Best of luck this treasure hunting season. Stay safe.

      • T Hunter;

        Glad you agree. You say that stanza #1 contains no clues – here we go with semantics again. Maybe not a clue, but certainly helpful hints or information.

        I do not discuss in emails anything I will not discuss here. If you want to drop me an email anyway – SculptorJDA@aol.com. Rule #2 for me, I do NOT read anyone’s solve – Thanks for the post – JDA

      • Having several interpretations of what “secret where” is saying could be helpful. I don’t want to say too much about this right now. All IMO.

    • Hi JDA,

      Good questions on Stanza 1.

      Here’s one of Forrest’s quotes that has always kinda stuck with me throughout the years.

      In an interview back in August, 2013, Forrest gave some advise on how to solve the poem. He said, in part:

      “You have to find out – you have to learn where the first clue is……”

      Learn —> Where.

      Any chance Stanza 1 teaches?

      All IMO.
      SRW

    • JDA – Awesome post! Thinking about the ideas provided in Forrest’s Scrapbooks #166 and #92 as Metaphors, specifically as Similes, for how exactly Forrest may have prepared to and finally hid the bronze chest. As in this famous one:

      “As above, So below”
      (Fifth Stanza connection?)

      Think about like comparisons as you read. Things Forrest did as boy that he did again as an adult.
      Where he went. Things he treasures that are mentioned. Like Dr. Pepper and Fritos. I think these two Scrapbooks verily match the First Stanza. Thanks again, Bur!

      That “keep” as potential “word that is key” still has my “tight focus”. They are almost homophones. And the bronze chest has a Medieval siege scene on it. And the RAM is on the lock. Battering ‘rams’ were used to break down Castle gates (along with tar) if you could get past the “water high” of the deep moat. But the bronze chest is unlocked. The way to the “keep” or Forrest’s “secret where” is unbarred. In the Heart and Home of his Castle.

      If we add a few commas, where an old time Circumpunct could take their places, that line would read:

      I can keep • my secret • where?

      In the Castle keep. That’s where. In the wood. IMO

      • JDA – Alternatively:

        I can • keep • my secret where

        “my secret where” modifies “keep”.

        Not messing with your Poem, Forrest, just playing with archaic punctuation for fun. And to make a point. Actually, to make GOLD.

      • Thanks Lisa – Glad you liked the post.

        You say: “The way to the “keep” or Forrest’s “secret where” is unbarred.” putting “Secret where” together and in quotes, and then seem to contradict yourself by then separating “secret” and “where”
        when you say “I can keep • my secret • where?” – and turn it into a question. Why the change? Just curious – JDA

        • JDA – That’s why I clarified it in the second post. Was being funny in the first, for emphasis.

          The KEEP: Forrest’s Secret Where

          The story of where Forrest’s Fenn’s bronze chest was finally found.

          A potential headline. Trying to illustrate my point. Keep is a noun.

        • JDA – Thankfully, around the same time period reflected in that siege on the bronze chest, the Knights Templar decided to create BANKS:

          I can BANK my ‘secret where’.

          Verb > Direct Object = Noun

          BANK: my ‘secret where’.

          Noun > Noun

          BANK: my Forrest Fenn, my Source

          Noun > Pronoun, Noun

          Just kidding on the last example.

    • JDA. Good topic and focus. I’ll share some of my thoughts. I am of the belief that the first stanza is the prelude of four things with in the poem,including the poem .The following is just my opinion. Seasoned with grains of salt and a little bit of pepper.

      A hint of what all the treasures are. ( Treasures (Bold), Trove, Chest,Gold)

      The first stanza has 2 x 2 1/2’s of each other, with the two “and’s ” joining two specific points for each 2 sets of lines.

      1 of the 2 halves:

      As I have gone alone in there
And with my treasures bold,

      1 of the 2 halves:
      I can keep my secret where,
And hint of riches new and old.

      There’s treasures to be found.
      And only he knows where all of them are.
      He’s telling us where the chest is with the 9 clues.
      And there’s a hint of another treasure at a secret where.

      There’s a secret treasure to be revealed , in the chest, when the treasure chest is found. It’s something that will remain a secret and it’s where until the chest is found. It’s one of a kind (bold) .Something highly valued in all timelines new and old.

      As soon as he publishes the poem , the chest location is no longer a secret where. The chest can be found at anytime, any moment by anyone who figures out the location via the poem . Therefore, there’s another secret something somewhere else- that is still the “secret where”.The “where” of it is told of, given,inside the chest once the chest is found. You will have to find it via instructions that are in the chest. That is in ,in part of, the opening introduction of the poem. The secret where is not in the poem but he is hinting about it in the poem.

      The poem ends with “I give you title to the gold”, which is the other treasure(s) bold that’s at a secret somewheres else. It’s made of Gold and you will be in intitle of it?

      Probably this is the why he knows the chest hasn’t been found? He’s 99.9% sure it hasn’t been found? Why? I am not sure he really means a transfer of legal title here . It’s just that you now would own it. Because of that treasured bold thing he knows is still there! Wherever that secret where is and the what it is-by this, somehow gives him awareness of the chest being found. Probably somehow gets FF’s attention or whatever other reasons applicable. It’s also possible that its intended purpose is to be the assurance of knowing the chest has been found ,at any time in the future. Not just limited to, but perhaps only during Forrest’s Fenn’s existence. It’s not possible at the moment to really define this.

      That’s the mystery of the first stanza?The secret where is not in the poem, the chest location is in the poem. But the “secret where” of the “treasures bold” thing,is in the chest.

      Whatever it is ,it’s- your “title to the gold”?. There’s more than just gold in the chest, right? Is there anything known as listed in the chest you would consider as being “Bold”? Nothing stands out to me as for “bold”. I don’t think the creation of this TTOTC is what is bold either.

      The last line of the poem is a nod to the first stanza-it’s proper synergy of writing.

      It’s a story and theres a mystery treasure that is what is “bold”. Nothing else tastes quite like a Dr. Pepper.

      IMO of course.

      • Very interesting post Alsetenash. I enjoyed reading it. I do not wholly agree with you, but I have not (yet) looked in the chest and found your “bold” – something.

        I agree that “Secret where” is very important, if understood – Thanks for the long and detailed post – JDA

        • Thanks JDA. An agreeance of an opinion on here, is really only likened to an invention having yet to be proven to exist..lol.

          What is real and true we don’t yet know. We only have the literature to go on at the moment.

          Cheers!

        • JDA. Also, what I infer to as the “Bold” treasure item , is not in the chest, perse. To the “secret where” is in the chest, is what I mean. It’s unknown until you follow and find it via the instructions found in the chest ,essentially. Probably straightforward are the instructions. It’s how I reads the first stanza, handshaking the last line.

          There’s more than just gold in the chest! So, there’s some other gold somewheres else. The end inherently must give some justice to the means of the beginning.

          IMO.

          • Alsetenash – I agree with everything you said. Thank you for all that Crystal Clarity on the structure of the Poem and how Stanza 1 ties into the last line.

            Upon realizing that general concept previously, I asked Iron Will to help me research the land ownership surrounding my hidey spot. I learned a lot about how the U.S.F.S. can own most of a parcel, but that other entities, ie., those related to agriculture or grazing, can quietly own other parts. Like maybe the parts that now look like bare ground, where trees used to be.

            I always enjoy reading and absorbing the knowledge and insights you so often take the time to share in your posts! Thank you!

    • JDA:
      The first stanza has deep meaning once you solve the last stanza. But cannot be understood until then.
      Finder

  49. Hey there. Long time lurker here. Has anyone out there married the poem to a location? Just wondering. That seems to be an important step. And anybody heard from Forrest Fenn lately? I wonder how he is doing? It seems like he is hibernating or something.

    • “Has anyone out there married the poem to a location?”
      ——————————————————–
      Apparently thousands of people have, based on their overly confident pronouncements.

      But so far, none of the locations seem to have yielded the treasure chest. It’s one thing to marry the poem to a location; it’s quite another to find the chest.

      Ken (in Texas) 🙂

      • Ken (in Texas) – Agreed.

        What are you doing this Summer, and how fast can you run?

        I asked Forrest to bring his One Horse and his cute Donkey to go out Cabin Creek with me, back in Summer of 2013. He said that idea was “tempting”. I was just trying to find a good solution to get past My Grizz. And riding horseback, like Forrest and Donnie Joe did, is one of the deterrents to Grizz attacks. Or so I read in “Mark of the Grizzly”.

        Maybe others on The Chase haven’t actually been to their hidey spots, either?

        Yes. For me, also, “it’s quite another thing to find the chest”.

  50. JDA, imo, in most discussions here, I consider it wise not to expound. I will say this, and it has nothing to do with bias, or confirmation. IMO the first stanza boils down to one word, and one place.

    • Hi Afana,

      Ditto. Except I ended up with an extra word. (IMO).

      And ditto on the wise part too! My lips are sealed!

      Good luck and Happy Easter!
      SRW

    • Afana and SRW:

      Three guesses:

      Keep
      Secret
      Secret where

      If you bring up a topic, and don’t expound on it, I will. And so will others. OtherWISE, just KEEP it to yourself.

      Giggles.

        • SRW – Hmmmm…

          “Braveheart””

          Thank you, William Wallace, who checked in under that name, on December 31, 2017, as the first guest at a new hotel opening here in town. I said ” hello”, even though he was cleverly disguised. Not much gets past me. Wink.

          • Hi Lisa,

            Safe? Nope.

            Peggy doesn’t play into my solve. Did she verify that the chest wasn’t still in there?

            Beats me. I don’t know the answer to that one.

            SRW

          • SRW – That was:

            “The answers I already know”

            Peggy discovered that the bronze chest wasn’t in there, a while after Forrest hid the bronze chest. Something else was in its place. I am not gonna go Google what it was.

            But if Stanza 1 was a Riddle to find a one word object, “Safe” or “Keep” would be excellent solutions. Because they are synonymous. Just making that point.

          • Major “Bingo” moment . . . (mere minutes before I was
            gonna post something about William Wallace). Thanks
            for the confirmation. All IMO.

          • Tall Andrew – I haven’t even begun to name all the Bills Williams that are or seem special to Forrest. But I know his Dad and his dog, Willie, would appear high up on the list. And so would William F. Buckley:

            https://dalneitzel.com/2017/04/15/scrapbook-one-hundred-seventy-nine/

            Good to review Forrest’s philosophy about writing and punctuation for solving the Poem and for deciding about clues vs. hints in his books and scrapbooks, IMO.

            Check out what Forrest says about editors, Tall Andrew.

            Really, check it out.

            No, Really.

            Willie, leave Tall Andrew alone! Off!

        • Hi Lisa,

          I get it. Thanks for the explanation. I was not aware that Peggy had discovered that the chest was gone. That information wouldn’t alter my solve one way or the other.

          While I don’t believe that stanza 1 is a riddle, if it were a riddle, your “safe” and “keep” does make for a nice solution. I’m not sure if that gets anyone any closer to the chest or not, but I do understand your connection.

          All IMO.
          Have a good Easter,
          SRW

      • Lisa C., let’s KEEP the simple facts straight. JDA brought up the topic. No concerns here, still smiling.

        • Afana – But you brought up the topic of KEEPing thoughts to yourself, and SRW agreed that was wise.

          My favorite acronym response:

          KISS KISS

          • Lisa C., “KISS KISS” I don’t see that acronym anywhere in your approach. If you changed your word choice to antonym, I could see why you’re fishing for stars and missing the boat. I’ve decided my comments to you are just going to be in fun. It’s all good, Dal.

          • Afana – I wasn’t referring to my posts. I was responding to your philosophy about your own posts with that acronym. Poking fun about your “simple” comment to me.

            I have heard many searchers lament folks who hint at what they know, without spilling. Trying to get others to guess what they “already know”. The only person they seem to want to do that with is Forrest. To solve the Poem.

            That is essentially what you just did, IMO. Everything we share here is a theory, as Alsetenash has reiterated again today.

            But I am going to have fun jumping in to guess, if you do it again. I am totally on The Chase for fun and enrichment and enjoyment.

            Always Smiling.

          • Lisa C., I have my theory/solve completed, right straight to the TC. Just waiting for the mud to dry. Therefore I can only share what I think will possibly be food for thought. You’re welcome to take it or leave it.

          • Lisa, your post at 8:08 made me LOL. I have a question for you. Why do you feel so comfortable in telling the world your solve location including links on G.E.?

          • Afana – Ditto. Except the sharing part.

            Who knows what you may find out to tweak your solve or gain additional support for it, to give you more BOTG confidence (ie., when Big Muddy and “ITS” home of Brown tributaries gain clarity)? I can tell you that sharing has served me well, here at Dal’s.

          • Afana – I truly believe that with all of the attempts I have made to get to my original hidey spot, usually thwarted by the antics of My Grizz, I may or may not be the ideal person to find and retrieve Forrest’s bronze chest there. And if I am not, then the right person will be enabled to do so with the knowledge I have accumulated and shared. It’s that simple.

            Meanwhile, the stuff that naturally erupts from my brain and heart, effusively, might just spark an idea or tweak in someone else’s solve. Bur did that for me today, big-time.

          • Re: Lisa’s posting of 8:08 PM —

            LOL may be better than lollygagging (the topo map WAS interesting).

            If I find the TC, I may retire from active treasure hunting
            and take up a new hobby (of planting and raising vegetables).

            I would also try to carry the torch/banner that FF has
            apparently been carrying for a long time. All IMO.

  51. Lisa C- I lost my DL climbing the side of Boat Mountain. Lol
    (I had it with me in case I fell). Cabin creek is pretty steep.
    -*rhyme not intended

  52. Hey Lisa C., reply to your 8:30 pm post down here. It may not serve you well if someone else walks away with a million+ and a grin on their face after being told where to look, IF your solve is correct.

    • Afana – Not attached to the outcome. Never been motivated by money. I am more interested in the “Big Picture” of how this story plays out. And I love adventures, including stuff we happen to help each other find here at Dal’s.

      Yawn. Because I’m sleepy, not because I am bored. I really never am that.

      I bid you Good Night!

    • I don’t believe Lisa is revealing her location, but instead is trolling with bits and pieces of her solve, sometimes too obviously to escape notice.
      Finder knows.

      • Finder – Jake will attest to the fact that I posted my exact hidey spot on an online topo map, to explore the view from there in Satellite view, and to try to get him to disprove my theory that the 3.7 mile distance and 6-700ft. elevation gain is certainly not TFTW for Forrest. And in that same post, Jake used his program to determine the distance of that Pyramid to the human trail, to confirm that part. So, Jake can go check out my hidey spot anytime. Or anyone can. If they can use Google search to find that post. Thanks again, Jake!

        And an online “Troll” is kinda like the ones that stories say live under bridges and generally have negative and undermining energy. That would not be me here on The Chase.

        • Ya, You have certainly shared a lot including where you think the treasure chest is. Although I like that area, I just think 14+ miles in one day may be a little too much for an 80 year old, even in great shape but as I said before, Fenn may have started the hike when the sun is beginning to peak on the horizon and that would be a game changer for distance.
          I know who the real trolls are.

          • Jake – Remember Alice Lake? That was 11.6 miles with 1600 ft of elevation gain and three creek crossings. The actual upand down was less than 7 hours. The sun does not go down in my search area until 9:30pm or later. And Forrest said to bring a flashlight and a sandwich. This Cabin Creek 14 miles trek would be a cakewalk for.Forrest. Half of it is downhill. But he could also have very well taken a horse, to reminisce about that trip he and Donnie Joe took In THERE.

            Thanks for your response and your support, always, on The Chase, Jake!

          • 1600′ is too much of an elevation gain.
            I don’t think Fenn took a horse but a dead fish to throw at your griz.

        • Jake – Cabin Creek is only 6-700ft elevation gain. Read my post again. I was making a comparison to the much more difficult hike I did to Alice Lake.

          And now I am also becoming a fly fisherman. Or woman. My friend at the library is an accomplished one herself. I will be able to catch my own Rainbow or Brown, right there on the Madison River. Or, maybe lots of them. So I can leave a false trail for My Grizz.

          • Ya, I know, I was just mixing thoughts in the same comment. Alice Lake is around your town, north.

      • Lisa:
        Did not intend to convey negative connotation. I believe you are on to a solve different from your previous one and sprinkling bits and pieces throughout. I mean trolling in the sense of hanging out a fishing lure, waiting for nibbles of confirmation. Hope that explains, certainly not critical of you or of your positive and energetic contributions.
        Finder

        • Finder – I knew that is what you meant; like the Gulpers who float down the Madison River, in boats or float tubes, after doing the put in below my home of Brown at Baker’s Hole. That was the second solve I emailed to Forrest, back in March/April of 2013. Before I even knew Baker’s Hole used to be called Brown’s Hole.

          Just took your post as another opportunity to expound on the need for positivity and sharing here at Dal’s.

          Thanks, Finder.

          • Lisa C. Dig noted. I’m satisfied with my approach of stepping outside the influence of the masses. The blind leading the blind so far. It only distracts one from independent original idea’s that may be more profitable in the end. Mr. Fenn has said, read the blogs for entertainment. That’s how I view it. IMO. I’ll try to keep up. Ha!

          • Hi Lisa,

            Was Brown’s Camp really a named place or just an ephemeral encampment known only to the cartographer named Brown who drew it on his one single old map of Gallatin County?

            Have you seen that name on more than one pre- 1930 map or found any other reference to it anywhere? I’ve seen it only on one map of Gallatin drawn by Brown himself around 1918 or so..

          • Hi Lisa,

            Was Brown’s Camp really a named place or just an ephemeral encampment known only to the cartographer named Brown who drew it on his one single old map of Gallatin County?

            Have you seen that name on more than one pre- 1930 map or found any other reference to it anywhere? I’ve seen it only on one map of Gallatin drawn by Brown himself around 1918 or so..

            Here: https://mtmemory.org/digital/collection/p15018coll5/id/177/

          • Looks like Eldridge Creek was Mud Creek at one time but Taylor Fork was the same.
            I remember Dal or someone else posted this map some time ago here and still have a copy.

          • Lisa C., no reply is unlike you. You must be out to lunch. I wish Dal would allow us to insert emoticons again.

          • Hi Jake,

            Taylor Fork was Dodge Creek in the 1890’s but I think you already knew that.

            I think both Dal and I posted that map previously because I think we both independently were making an hypothetical case for a home of Brown. I would be very interested if somebody found a secondary source for that name at that place.

          • Muset – My info. was from memory of a map Dal posted here on this blog. Please use Google to go find that map and all of the comments associated with it. Thank you!

            I can’t see the details of the map you provided on my tiny little phone screen. Sorry.

            And yes, Afana, I was, in fact, out to lunch. Literally.

            Tongue sticking out Emoji.

          • Thanks for the reply Lisa.

            I think I can conclude that single map remains the only source for Baker’s Hole ever being named Brown’s Camp.

          • Muset,
            No I didn’t know Dodge was the original name of Taylor Creek. I wonder what the natives called it. I know they were there 1st.
            Dodge: to avoid
            Sorta like you’re up sh***s creek without a paddle.
            Thanks

          • Thanks for that link; there are a hundred maps there.

            I appreciate your enthusiasm and wish you a great search trip this summer.

    • Veronica S. – Oh. Nice pic!

      At least you didn’t get chased off the Cabin Creek Trail by My Grizz, like a family did the day before I was planning to go alone in there. A Dad, Mom, Toddler, with a Baby on Dad’s back, slid down the steep bank into the creek, and picked their way along that, for about a mile, back to camp. My Grizz was seen next to their cabin, where the creek meets the Madison River, shortly after their return. Then My Grizz crossed the river there, probably to go find some Bighirn Sheep.

      Now tell me,…would you follow that single track trail in there, after hearing that story over breafast at Campfire Lodge??? Not!!

  53. Upthread, Jake Faulker wrote: “If there was any information in the poem that gives you WWWH, I think the treasure would have been found.”

    Jake then uses a quote from Forrest about needing FF’s “back story”, to justify the conclusion that the searcher must look somewhere else (other than the poem) to find WWWH.
    ————————————————————————
    Jake, sounds to me like you, along with many other searchers, have given up on the poem.

    Have you forgotten Forrest’s statement that >>> everything you need to find the treasure chest is in the poem?

    Needing his “back story” is relevant only insofar as knowing that the chest is in the mountains north of Santa Fe and in one of four states. That, plus knowing that there are nine clues is about all the “back story” one needs to begin searching, even 500 years from now. Such basic external knowledge does not at all justify your conclusion that WWWH cannot be found in the poem.

    Based on conclusions you arrive at in various posts, I think I can tell exactly what false assumptions you are making. They’re the same false assumptions that most searchers have made, in my opinion. And those assumptions are one of the main reasons the chest has not been found.

    Ken (in Texas)

  54. If you are just starting to chase after the treasure the volume of material on the blogs is overwhelming. No one can read all those posts. It’s just going to get worse as time goes on. Reminds me of Forrest Fen’s ball of string. I guess it’s just best to stick to the poem. The poem is short and to the point. On the other hand it’s interesting to hear how others are interpreting the words and finding places of interest. I might stick around here just for entertainment.

  55. I see what Lisa is saying. After a couple of years the interest wears off. I could share my
    solve because what is the chance of it being correct. Very little. There is the case about
    New Mexico but it is probably not as strong as they think.
    IMO Only. I feel this chase is really only for Treasure Hunters/Outdoor Men and Women
    and not really A family Adventure. Like A serious Out in the woods treasure hunter.
    It is a real treasure with a real solve and if it fits in with your Ability then it is for you.

    I see the police are looking for Another man who showed up at Forrest home again.
    I guess it was not his first time. How many times did Indy get arrested. Wait never mind.

    Is interest up again. Is any useful information coming soon. When I take my vacation
    I am going to Disney Land or Universal Studios. I not going looking for this treasure.

    To me it is really for A professional treasure hunter/outdoor adventurer Man or Women.
    I just now find it interesting to read or see what different people say.. Are them old timers getting any closer yet. Hey did you all hear about the upside down bike. Fake out..

    Well I guess the next news will be Did the police catch Him yet..

    Good luck Adventurers…

    • markt;

      Sorry to hear the negativity in your post. I am a 76 year old man with heart problems. I hardly fit your description of the professional treasure hunter. On more than one occasion I have had four generations of searchers out there – as a FAMILY AFFAIR!!! And we LOVED it. And Yes, I fully expect to find Indulgence soon – If only to show you how wrong you are haha 🙂 – JDA-

      • “I fully expect to find Indulgence soon”
        I never read that before…
        Are we supposed to celebrate April Fools this whole month?

        • Well Jake, you hurt my feelings, so I am going to quit the chase – 🙂 Mid April Fools 🙂 JDA

      • Ok I admit it. Yes you are right. I was thinking what if it became a
        bad idea and encountered some danger with kids along.
        But camping in the mountains is a Family thing. I was just thinking
        about the chase and can everyone please stay safe on their hunts.
        Your right those are great times what was I thinking.
        Hopefully getting back in the box is just a cardboard one.
        Not like my WWWH idea thing general solve..
        which leads people into a be prepared area.
        It is odd it is to a big Y area. Were I must go. But I don’t think
        that’s what is being said. rabbit holes everywhere.
        Hope you find it JDA. I would be happy for you..

    • markt…sorry to hear you’ve had enough. This Chase is not for everyone it seems. There are some that have gone *all in* too soon…and they’re not around. Some are in for the long haul…

      • ken, speaking of the long haul, I have 3 questions. I know you’ve been involved since the beginning of this saga. Are you still actively searching? and will you be doing botg this season? AGK did a show last week on the subject of “why hasn’t the treasure been found?” Since you’ve seen many bright people come and go over many moons, maybe you could share your opinion on that good question? Anyone else as well.

        • My opinion on why it hasn’t been found, is the same reason I have for having an opinion for why it hasn’t been found.

          I am missing something.

        • Afana;

          I am not Ken, but here is my view.

          In TTOTC – “Teachers With Ropes,” Forrest says about himself, “All I had going for me was some imagination, hard work and a logical mind.” f

          I think that the ultimate finder of Indulgence will say the same thing about him/her self. So, why hasn’t it been found yet? Not enough imagination, not enough hard work, and not a logical enough mind. Having both a great imagination, as well as a logical mind is a mixture that is seldom found – add to that, a willingness to work hard at applying imaginative logic to the puzzle is truly a rare commodity – at least in my humble opinion. JDA

          • Thanks JDA, that’s a logical opinion, as well as holding fast to Fenn’s words. I know you’ve put in a lot of hard work. I wish you well this season.

          • Afans – You wrote to ken:

            “… the subject of “why hasn’t the treasure been found?” Since you’ve seen many bright people come and go over many moons, maybe you could share your opinion on that good question? Anyone else as well.”

            I answered you.

        • Afana – Because DeCall said, in that video Sean hosted with Michael D., DeCall and Dal, about why the treasure has not been found, that his wife is sorta not supporting him going on The Chase any longer. And it is a long way from where he lives to our joint search area. And I need him to run slower than me. When we inevitably encounter My Grizz.

          That’s why.

          Same reason as always.

          • Lisa C., unless Ken goes by a different name? my question to Ken got cross threaded by you imo, and it was open to anyone’s opinion.

          • Afana – Which is why I gave you my specific personal answer to your question. You said “open to anyone” and I answered.

            Do you need my Big Ball of String???

        • Geez Afana… I almost missed your query. My involvement in the beginning of the Chase is happenstance and is shrouded in a series of both fortunate and unfortunate events. That story I’ll hold onto a bit longer as the timing is not yet right. I will say that the hook was set and the Chase for Fenn’s treasure fits in nicely with my life style and interests.
          Yes… I am an active searcher but not nearly as prolific as some tend to be. My motto is, slow and easy, with the exception of my first two adrenaline fed cross country road frenzies. I’ve learned there is NO RUSH…unless I’m looking for one stepping out at 10K feet.
          I had plans for a search trip last year early on, but business responsibilities and scheduling did not cooperate. It was a bummer, however, I’m patient and quite content with where things stand. I have been on a 6 or 7 days a week grind since mid 2018 and the end is maybe 2 weeks out. So… a trip is likely sometime in the future.
          Your third question is quite simple in my mind… Fenn’s treasure has not been retrieved because the right person has not thought the right things yet. Since early on Fenn has indicated that folks had figured the first two clues and yet missed the treasure because they didn’t know they had. There is a serious disconnect at the 2nd and 3rd clue juncture. This makes me believe that no one has truly nailed down the first clue *precisely*… perhaps in a general way that enables a *close call*, or a *whiff*… but not in the fashion that allows for making all of the clues line up the way they were intended.
          Also for the record…I’ve only clicked on maybe a couple of the vlogs momentarily…couple of minutes at most. They’re just not up my alley. Good luck to ALL… and be safe out there.

          • Ken.
            Just wondering if you could elaborate on your answer to the first few clues. Most of what you said seems straight forward. But
            When you say that Fenn indicated that several folks have figured out the first few clues but as he said walked right past. He also said that WWWH is the first clue. So why would you think the first clue was not nailed down precisely. It seems to me that if you knew were WWWH is and or what it is that would be enough to continue from.
            Unless your thinking that the first clue is like a double innuendo and it refers to two different things.
            I wouldn’t put that past him.
            Any thoughts.
            GH

  56. You’re ALL wrong, the TREASURE is gonna be MINE! Just as soon as I get my spine fused back together and HEAL I’m on that Treasure like a Bear on Honey! I will be using the Confirmation Bias that Forrest said with his own WORDS to get that Treasure! I’ll probably be wearing a neck brace so if we run into each other in the wilderness you’ll know who I am. Don’t try to take advantage of my disability and take the Treasure from me either, I will be carrying Snicker Bars and bottles of Dr Pepper to defend myself! Don’t underestimate my abilities!

    Happy Easter.

    • Bear will smell you from miles away. Better be prepared to abandon snickers to the Grizz.

  57. I had to research it.

    https://dalneitzel.com/2018/12/19/odds-n-ends-about-fenns-treasure-hunt-73-2/#comment-726803

    That was his last post 4 moons ago. And because he became frustrated with people wry-mouthing him. People who expose their opinions eventually get floundered.

    So please tell me, except for Forrest to post his thoughts and others to sell their wares, what is the purpose and value of this site? It seems to me like a place to come to be scorned and alienated.

    • E.C. Waters – Oh, they’ll be back, IMO. And I used to enjoy furiously posting, one thought after another, in an attempt to stay ahead of that hand on the big red button. Keep sharing. And ignore the Trolls!

    • EC…. It used to be commonplace to do a little bit of *ribbing* just to keep things light and not get too serious. Those times are long gone it seems and thin skin is apparently more in fashion these days. To set the record straight/er… Zap was certainly very capable of dishing out his fair share whether it was warranted or not. I do miss his well thought out posts along with a few others that have come and gone. Like Lisa said… they may pop in again.

      • “thin skin is apparently more in fashion these days.” LOL
        Yes it’s apparent, unfortunately.

  58. I just finished reading the May 2019 issue of Reader’s Digest, written by Eric Spitznagel, about FF. The write up was short and didn’t tell much that we already knew. Micheal Hendrickson, a lady named Grandma and Jdiggins had mentions as well.

    I didn’t find anything that was reaching, but there is the one quote from Forrest that rings true, “they don’t seem to be focusing on the first clue.”f

    I have stressed several times that one needs to “learn” wwwh as this will be the starting place on the right map. I will add without the correct answer to the first clue, “nailing it down” will most likely cause searchers to continuously flounder. IMO

    What I did find amusing was the map in the story of *probable, possible and the impossible places where the treasure might be*, as I find the map merely conjecture.

    All in all it was a short read with some good graphics. Of course my take is IMO.

    Just Say’n

    • Afana – Already tried. My comment about that is under the first person’s post about the article. My Shadow was mentioned. My librarian friend will watch out for it via her online site.

      CharlieM – Thanks for the Summary!

    • Afana,

      Just one question, what makes you think I don’t have good connections? Assumptions are most often wrong.

    • RD releases the digital version of the May edition at the end of April. Until then it is unavailable on-line. When the digital version is released we will post it on the blog.

    • Thanks for sharing, CharlieM. Even if it doesn’t contain a lot of new content, I always enjoy reading a new article about the Chase when it comes out. I’ll look forward to reading it once it gets posted.

      Do you suppose that the quote about not focusing on the first clue is also related to the quote about Chasers not focusing on the “word that is key”? If so, and we have Forrest’s confirmation that WWWH is the first clue, then I’m thinking that the word that is key would have to be one of those words. I’ve already said here before that my money is on “halt” being the key word. Almost everyone has focused on “warm” and “waters”, I don’t see anything special in the word “where”, so it seems to me that it’s gotta be “halt” by default (unless you think “Begin” or “it” are possibilities as well, but I’m not seeing anything specific enough to go on in these two words).

      I’ll continue my thoughts over on the WWWH thread….

    • This is also in jest:

      It’s disappointing to me that the article didn’t tell much that we already knew.

      I want to read a long article that tells much that we already knew. It might
      distract me from the neverending scandal-that-isn’t, which keeps telling much of nothing. And we already knew much of nothing.

      Giggles. Winks. Tinking (which might be worth a hill o’ beans).
      As always, IMO.

      • Only have one on at a time? I figured if I have them both on it’s like a two factor identification?

  59. My skin is fine. Not as fine as dancing with millesimal fineness and carrots on Easter, but enough to remember the manners my parents instilled in me to be respectful and polite to others. Twood be great if everyone could observe a modicum of respect to others, but I doubt all parents are the same. Perhaps my expectations are too hight.

    And it looks like this site got hacked again and keeps wanting to download krapp. Please look into it, Dal, or Chris, or whomever is in charge of sitely things.

  60. Clint,

    My skin is thin, that’s part of getting old. My feathers never get ruffled here, I just don’t care much about what others say that comes across as plucking for trouble.

    “This does not mean we can’t have differing opinions and a robust discussion with constructive criticism” as to referencing rule #4 here at hoD. Making arguments, just for the purpose to agitate or ridicule someone I don’t care for.

    Cabin fever may be a culprit but not likely for me, I get out plenty all year long. Chomping at the bit, now that’s how I see it.

    I agree with E.C. Waters on manners below.

    I got ta, go and get me some more of the jelly beans!

  61. Hi All. Just putting a thought out there about Dr Pepper. The famous tag line is 10 2 4. Convert that to PM time and you get 1550,(ten minutes two four). Now convert to Roman Numerals.
    1000 = M
    500 = D
    50 = L
    Perhaps this refers to something in the chase, an abbreviation for a place. Perhaps you can change the order of the letters, MDL or DML or LDM.
    Hope this gives food for thought.

  62. “One man asked if he should buy a topographical map and I told him he’d be better served reading the book again.” Fenn looked at me. “All you have to do is think about the nine clues and follow them in order.”
    (Margie Goldsmith 2011)

    served – to be useful or of service to; help

    So for those that think just the poem, a good map, and some knowledge of geography is all they need. Ok that might be, but the TTOTC book is more useful then just a topographical map it seems,

    So all you have to do is “think” about the nine clues and follow them in order.
    To me if you have WWWH down then I would say yes, but only after you have researched the area with a “better map” not just a topo map. This is also where a little knowledge of geography might help too.
    All has been said before.
    Just food for thought.

    Good luck all,
    Bur

    • Hi Bur;

      The question is, “Will we recognize the “Better map” when we see it?” Read the poem, and become aware of what it really says. Read TTOTC – and yes, the poem is in TTOTC – is there a map there also? Who knows? Not I – JDA

      • JDA,
        You are so right about what’s a better map? I can only speak for the one that I found of my search area. It shows seven of the clue solves, and this last year it shows eight. This one clue was covered by tree canopy but for some reason I can see it now. Now don’t get me wrong, a little knowledge of geography and a botg trip helped too in getting those eight.
        What is key is after “understanding” those eight clues this is the reason I can “see” them on my map “now”.

        Last solve the “blaze” yet to be seen.

        Thanks for your reply.
        Bur

        • WOW – that eighth clue showed it’s head. YEA for you. I hope that the ninth one shows up for you once you can put BotG. Didn’t you say something about it maybe being “whitish?” JDA

          • Yes, there are two possibles I have seen in photos I had taken the last time I was there, and both are “whitish”.

            As far as the one clue showing itself on the map now, you wouldn’t know it to see it or even understand it, no label for it on the map. It was found by botg surprisingly. This is the “heavy loads” clue solve.

            Bur

          • Hello Tall Andrew. “There’ll be no paddle up your creek, Just heavy loads (guilt) and water high.” Are you considering the two lines as one or two clues which leads to an area on the map? I am trying to understand your thoughts as to whether one should just consider heavy loads as guilt, and not water high.

  63. Hi all;

    Easter Sunday, we had a family gathering. One of my grandchildren asked me how I had gotten involved in the Chase. Here is (more or less) what I told her.

    I told her that I first learned of Mr. Fenn’s treasure hunt on December 23, 2015 when I saw a special on Expedition Unknown featuring The Thrill of the Chase. I was immediately captivated. I went on-line and researched “Forrest Fenn”. From there I was directed to two or three blog sites… The two I liked best were Dal’s, “Thrill of the Chase …” and Jenny Kile’s site Mysterious Writings “The-Thrill-of-the-Chase”

    Here, I learned a lot about Mr. Fenn – about where he grew up, his vacations in Yellowstone National Park, his war experiences in Vietnam, and how he became rich as an Art Gallery owner in Santa Fe. I learned about how he was diagnosed with cancer, and how he beat it. I also told her about his poem and treasure.

    I then told my granddaughter about how, after downloading the poem, and reading it many, many times, Stanzas 5 and 6 caught my attention:

    “So why is it that I must go
    And leave my trove for all to seek?
    The answers I already know,
    I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.

    So hear me all and listen good,
    Your effort will be worth the cold.
    If you are brave and in the wood
    I give you title to the gold. ”

    I showed her where these lines were in the poem.

    I told her that figuring out the importance of these two stanzas would take almost one year. Throughout all of my story, I was trying to teach her that hard work is important to achieving your goals, and that with enough study and hard work, anything is possible.
    I went on to tell her about what I thought Stanza 5 meant:

    “So why is it that I must go
    And leave my trove for all to seek? = Why did Forrest hide Indulgence?
    The answers I already know, = Forrest knows why. Now we must find out why.
    I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.” = Forrest hid it post-cancer.

    I told her that to me, Stanza 5 was a prelude or preamble to the poem (I had to explain what these words meant), asking us (the people who look for the treasure) why we felt that Forrest had hidden the treasure…Why it was important to Forrest, and why it should be important to us.

    I then talked about Stanza 6:
    “So hear me all and listen good”, = Pay attention to the next line.
    “Your effort will be worth the cold.” = Think about the mountains where it is cold.
    “If you are brave and in the wood” = This line told me that it was in the “Wood (s), or in a forest – somewhere in the mountains – The question was where?

    I told her that since I was not sure what Stanza 1 was saying back then, I started with Stanza 2

    I read, and re-read the poem. I described how I was stumped by line one of stanza 2 – “Begin it where warm waters halt”. (We looked at these lines on the poem…)

    I told her how having learned that Forrest had spent summers in Yellowstone, and Hebgen Lake (A lake that we, as a family had visited a couple of times outside of West Yellowstone, Montana) I Google searched “Warm Springs in Montana”. I found a Warm Springs Creek near Anaconda, Montana.

    I then told her that this led me on three wild goose chases. I developed full and complete, but wrong arm-chair, solutions – Yes, I had to explain what that meant – mostly around Anaconda, Montana.YUP, I had to show her where that was on a map.

    I explained to her how much fun it was to develop a complete solution or “Solve”, but that we could not find a treasure there, because it was on land that was owned by the government, and that we could not go there. So, no treasure. I told her that I also tried to develop three or four partial solutions around Butte, MT. None of them worked out though. I told her that that some times happens. I told her that the poem is really, really hard to figure out, but that if I kept at it, someday I just might be able to figure it out.

    I then told her that on December 31, 2015, I started a new search or quest. About this time, I received my copy of The Thrill of the Chase. (TTOTC) Instead of searching for “Warm Springs in Montana”, I decided to search in Wyoming.

    I explained that I chose Wyoming since Yellowstone National Park (Where Forrest spent many a summer) is in Wyoming. “Buffalo Cowboys” (The story about the Buffalo named Cody) took place in Wyoming, and the story (“The Long Ride Home”) about riding home with his brother from Yellowstone took place in Wyoming. I stayed away from Yellowstone National Park, since to me, it appeared TOO obvious, and TOO well searched by others.

    I then told her that, about this time, I decided that a new strategy was in order. I told her how I had decided to look up almost every word in the poem. I wanted to feel that I understood every possible definition or interpretation to every word in the poem. Not only did I look up modern-day meanings of these words, I looked for old and little known or used definitions or interpretations of all of these words. I asked her if she knew that a couple of the definitions of “far” included “Deadly” and “Dangerous”? She said that she didn’t know that. I told her that that was “OK”, most people do not know that.

    I told her how I also looked up every synonym, antonym and homonym of these words – Yes, I had to explain what these words meant – after all, she is only nine.

    I told her how, armed with this knowledge, I tried to figure out, from the many definitions or interpretations available, which ones Forrest wanted me to use. I told her that I kept going back to the last two lines of the poem:

    “If you are brave and in the wood
    I give you title to the gold.”

    I told her that I was sure that if I could figure out what these words meant, that I could then solve “where warm waters halt” – a very important line in the poem. She, being a bright young lady, asked me how water can stop… Like a faucet? I said yes, but that I thought that Mr. Fenn had something else in mind. I told her that Mr. Fenn had told us that this wwwh place was the place where we should start our search for the treasure.

    I told her that after a lot of research, I finally felt that I had found it. I found an interpretation of these words that led me a specific place in Wyoming. (I didn’t want to have to explain “Geographic Feature” to her) I told her that once I located this special place, that it was not hard to find a spot that seemed to match WWWH, and there was a near-by canyon as well. This led me to a place that could be a hoB, and then I found my “Meek Place”, an “end place”. I then found a “No paddle creek”, “heavy loads and water high” places, and even a blaze. I explained to her that all of these places were very important places that Mr. Fenn talked about in the poem, and I pointed them out to her on the copy of the poem that she had looked at earlier.

    So, I told her that that is how I got started on the chase.

    Since that first trip, we, as a family, have taken many trips, and most of my family are familiar with all of the places I first found. The solves have changed, but the first five or six places have never changed. I have had to “tweek” the last several clues as I have learned more about where the treasure “is not” – and we have found a LOT of these. I have also learned a lot more about where the treasure “Might be”.

    I have enjoyed telling you about my Easter Week-end with my grand daughter. I hope that you have enjoyed my tale.

    I hope that others will share with all of us how they first got started in the chase, and how they developed their first solve(s)

    Thanks for listening. JDA

    • You’re a good grandad,
      I would have just handed her the poem and book and asked her what she thought about it after she was done maybe a week or 2 later and of course if she wasn’t interested I would not mention it again. They will let us know when and if they are ready for our hobbies. I wouldn’t tell them too much and I like kids to make up their own mind for themselves.

      • Thanks Jake;

        Since she already knew about the treasure, and had asked, that is why I went into so much detail. Have a good one Jake – JDA

    • Thanks for sharing, JDA. I’m glad that you had a good Easter sharing the Chase with your granddaughter. I didn’t realize you only started the Chase the year before I first heard about it; I had you figured for one who had been into it from the very beginning!

      The bulk of my searching this season will be in some new areas for me, but I still find myself lingering on my original search area and feel like I may be able to squeeze just a few more possibilities out of it before I share. We’ll see!

      But I will say that it was when I happened to hear John Burnett’s NPR story on the radio in 2016 that I first became aware of this whole crazy thing myself! I set it aside for a while and did not do my first BOTG search until the following year. So only two search seasons under my belt so far. Lots more out there to check out still! 🙂

    • That was the longest comment I ever read in my entire life!

      But it was worth it!

      Thanks JDA.

    • JDA, Thanks for posting.

      This may be just a tiny, relatively unimportant detail, but here goes anyway:

      I think the experience with the buffalo, per the story “Buffalo Cowboys”, took place in Montana — not in Wyoming.

      • I agree that the story “Buffalo Cowboys” probably did not take place just outside of YNP – but I do think that it took place at a different place in Wyoming – Thanks – JDA

        • Buffalo Smoke story is along the Madison in YNP in TFTW and Buffalo Cowboys story was west of West Yellowstone in TTOTC as far as I remember.

  64. Hi JDA,

    What a fun day with your granddaughter!

    Quick question.

    Some time ago you and I had a discussion about Stanza 5. At the time I was flip-flopping back and forth about whether or not that Stanza held a clue. The reason why I had such a hard time with that Stanza is because, at the time, I only had 8 clues. I realize I could have easily re-parsed or re-numbered my clues, but every time I tried to do that it would really mess up my solves for my other clues. (IMO).

    Anyways, I think I’ve just recently managed to squeak out enough information from Stanza 5 to accept the possibility that there is probably a clue in that Stanza. (IMO).

    My question is, are you still of the opinion that Stanza 5 holds a necessary clue (that is one of the 9 clues) in order to have a correct solve?

    What does everybody else think? Could Stanza 5 be the missing link?

    All IMO
    SRW

    • SRW;

      Here are my nine clues – So you will see that not only do I see one clue in Stanza #5, I see two.

      Stanza #1
      Prelude
      As I have gone alone in there
      And with my treasures bold,
      I can keep my secret where,
      And hint of riches new and old.

      Stanza #2
      Clue #1 Begin it where warm waters halt
      And take it in the canyon down,
      Not far, but too far to walk.

      Clue #2
      Put in below the home of Brown.

      Stanza #3
      Clue #3 From there it’s no place for the meek,
      The end is ever drawing nigh;

      Clue #4
      There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
      Just heavy loads and water high.

      Stanza #4
      Clue #5 If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
      Look quickly down, your quest to cease,
      But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
      Just take the chest and go in peace.

      Stanza #5
      Clue #6 So why is it that I must go
      And leave my trove for all to seek?

      Clue #7
      The answers I already know,
      I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.

      Stanza #6
      Clue #8 So hear me all and listen good,
      Your effort will be worth the cold.

      Clue #9
      If you are brave and in the wood
      I give you title to the gold.

      Hope that this helps – Good luck to Ya’ – JDA

      • Thanks JDA.

        My clues are very similar to yours . The exception is that I’ve only picked up on one clue in Stanza 5, as opposed to your two. But I have two clues elsewhere, to your one.

        Nice job on your numbers 1 and 2. I was worried that I might have been all alone in my thinking on those two. Makes all the sense in the world, doesn’t it?

        All IMO.
        Thanks again,
        SRW

        • Hi Jake,

          Forrest has said that a searcher is going to have to earn it (paraphrased). Forrest has also said that we have to know where to start and we have to start at the beginning, etc. (also paraphrased).

          Here’s the thing. I’m not so sure that Forrest would give us a complete 1st clue. That would’ve been to easy, I think.

          Is there any chance that Forrest might have just given us a nudge towards the 1st clue? I could be reading it wrong, but it is possible (IMO).

          His “Begin it …..” comment reminds me of this comment, from an interview in 2013:

          OFF: Well some of them seem… Some of the clues maybe are things that people locally would know. You say, “Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down. Not far, but too far to walk. Put in below the home of Brown. That seems like a couple of clues to me.

          FENN: That sounds like three or four to me.

          ———————————————–

          And then later, from a MW Q&A in 2014, Forrest said this:

          Question: “You told a reporter that there are three or four clues in the second stanza. Were you telling the truth? Alison R

          Forrest’s Answer: “I don’t know what it is about girls but when I say something they automatically ask if I’m lying. Shame on you Allison R.

          I promise you that I get more things right than most reporters. If you were here I would make you take a dose of castor oil. Besides, if I lied to the reporter what makes you think I would tell you the truth?

          Sorry Alison, I’m off my soap box now. No, I was not lying but I don’t remember a reporter asking me such a question.

          ——————————————

          So which one is it?

          Just more to ponder.

          Have a good day!
          All IMO.
          SRW

          • We all have to make up our own minds for ourselves, good, bad and ugly.

            When I started this chase in the summer of 2015 and thought that any line, word or punctuation could be a clue and went on a couple BOTG’s.

            When winter rolled in, I decided to throw everything out the window what I researched and what I thought I knew and started fresh.

            The 1st goal in the new beginning was to find out logically what were the 9 clues in the poem without thinking of places, balls of string, bessy, L&C, my war for me, important literature etc…

            I wanted to find out which phrases and definitions I didn’t or couldn’t find an answer for. It was easy to see the 1st clue was – Begin it where warm waters halt without knowing about the New Zealand audio.

            I then figured that the clue phrases in the poem would be places, directions, actions and things at places.
            I soon came to the conclusion that the blaze would be the last clue.

            Here are my 9 clues with a slight revision test if you scroll down where wise may be part of a clue.
            https://dalneitzel.com/2018/10/27/the-nine-clues-83/#comment-708284
            Simple, straightforward seeing the poem is so vague.

            Keep in mind I like to think what it isn’t or can’t be, before I think what it may be to eliminate and this is how my brain thinks in my thoughts about life when it comes to mysteries.
            IMO

          • Good way of looking at the poem Jake. Using your 9, there are a LOT of lines that are not used, and this is not logical to me, but to each his own. If it works for you – GO FOR IT!!! JDA

          • JDA,
            My logic comes in at finding the 1st clue in the poem 1st and I was right, then figuring what the last clue may be which made sense as the blaze because of the adios and videos where he made references to only those 2 clues and no others. It’s what I call a “tell” if you know what I mean.

            All you have to do after that is split the rest up in between those 2 and you got all 9 clues stuffed in 3 stanzas which happens logically and easily for me.

            You have to act like there is another person asking you these questions.

            Where do you begin?
            What canyon down I have to go in?
            Where is HOB and where do I put in?
            Where is this no place for the meek?
            Where is the end ever drawing nigh?
            Which creek?
            Where on this creek are heavy loads and water high?
            How have I been wise, is it a place?
            Where is the blaze?
            Game over in my mind.

          • Thanks Jake.

            I’m just trying to rationalize why Forrest would give away a clue like that. It feels wrong somehow, for me. He said he wasn’t gonna give it away, and then he kinda did. (IMO).

            Anyways, I do like your rational in re-analyzing everything. In the end, I think logic will win the prize.

            Thanks again,
            SRW

          • SRW,
            Fenn had contradicted himself in our minds a few times but, I don’t think he ever contradicted himself when letting us know what the 1st clue is. I don’t believe Fenn ever said that “Begin it where warm waters halt” is not the 1st clue.

            It appears as though you feel he is misleading us with the 1st clue in the poem with the New Zealand Audio.
            Not sure why he would do that.
            He has had a few slips of the tongue at times and I have seen every video and heard every audio several times and even transcribed details about treasure questions on them.

            When he said he wasn’t going to give it away, I thought he was talking about the treasure and not the 1st clue.

            Who’s to say he didn’t give the location of the 1st clue out to us as well? I think he did right under our noses.

          • Hello SRW. I believe it’s possible Mr. Fenn would have thought we would/could have logically understood the beginning of the clues began with “Begin it…” With the response to the reporter and the searcher in regards to 3-4 clues in second stanza, I would have to believe the gentleman, whether or not he recalls the original response to the reporter. I believe his response to Alison may be a suggestion we use logical thinking. Does it help searchers? Possible, but it’s only a response and does not lead us to the treasure per se. We still have to figure out what the clues are and what they mean and apply it to the map. There may be those who have understood two to possible three or four clues, but do/does the searcher(s) know they have? Time will tell.

            This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

          • Thanks PDenver,

            I agree that given Forrest’s comments, each searcher will still have to use some logic in order to determine what constitutes a complete clue, for each searchers individual solve. And more specifically what each clue actually means. (IMO).

            There are so many unique ways to read this poem!

            Thanks again,
            SRW

      • Yes Jake – When Forrest said that the first clue was “Begin it where…” that became my #1. Had to change from my one sentence = 1 clue, and the other system – Clues in stanza 2,3 and 4 – hints in 1, 5 and 6.
        These other formats just did not seem to fit any longer – Just how I now see it – JDA

      • JDA,

        I disagree that stanza 5 contains a clue. The reason is, I feel F has already answered the why’s of why he hid the treasure. One, of the main reasons was folks were struggling financially during the Recession. Two, he wanted folks to get off of there duffs and get out and enjoy nature and to see what it has to offer by its beauty, history and fun. Three, he wanted to leave part of himself by way of the autobiography and the silver bracelet that meant a lot to him, even the artifacts and gold has a history with Forrest.

        You did a good job explaining to your grand-daughter what the Chase was about and the history of your theories. I certainly hope this sparked an interest and the willingness to learn.

        Just Say’n

        • Thanks for your comments CharlieM;

          As usual, we disagree, and that is OK.

          I think that stanza #5 deals with a LOT more than Forrest’s reason for hiding Indulgence.

          “So why is it that I must go And leave my trove for all to seek?”

          I think that using two words that have similar (of not exact) meanings – “Go and Leave” is not by happenstance.

          Just as “The answers I already know, I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak” – “Tired and Weak” can have similar meanings.

          I think that the two “clues” need to be couples – “Go-Tired” and “Leave-Weakl” Coupled this way, I see these four lines (two clues) as being directions – Directions as to where to “GO” once you have found the blaze and looked quickly down until you reach a “cold” spot and are “Brave and in the wood.” JMO, and how I read the poem – JDA

        • “there duffs” come on. CM…..good grammar, punctuation and spelling are doable things.

    • I think counting clues is a mistake, so my approach has been to just solve the entire poem in order.

  65. I’ve haven’t understood how stanza 5 is suppose to help us find the correct wwwh. One reason I haven’t understood that is the flow just seems awkward if that was the case.

    • Hi Fundamental Design,

      Thanks for your response. Personally, I’ve never tried to use Stanza 5 for assistance in trying to solve WWWH. I tend to read the poem more differently than others might. It reads more chronological to me. IMO.

      Good luck,
      SRW

    • FD;

      As you can see from my “Easter w/my granddaughter” post – I think that stanza #6 is the stanza that leads you to a correct WWWH – JMO – JDA

      • JDA,

        I agree with SRW that the poem should be read chronological, you know as well as I do, I disagree, Stanza 6 does not lead one to wwwh. That stanza is the finish of the Chase with the answering of the 9th clue. IMO

        Happy hunting,
        Just Say’n

  66. Afana;

    You say, “If any searchers position is still at guessing what the clues are in the poem,.. trying to put a number on them, then they are far from the finish line, and have much work to do” If this is true, why did Forrest say “Only the nine clues, in consecutive order, in the Poem, when understood and followed, leads a person precisely to the chest.”???? Forrest implies that one must first figure out what those nine clues are, and to make sure that these same nine clues are in consecutive order…”

    If YOU are not doing this, my guess is that it is YOU that has a lot of work to do – JMO – based on Forrest’s statements – JDA

    • JDA, First I forgot to include IMO, and it was not my intent to offend you or anyone else. Paraphrasing, Fenn didn’t count the so-called clues until after the poem was complete. How else could he express “What” we are to follow in consecutive order without using the word “clues.” As for my work, it’s complete. All JMO

      • No offense taken. Solving a puzzle is different that creating one. Forrest did not set out with the intent of having nine clues, that is just how it turned out.

        Solving it is different. Can we “Solve the puzzle”, and then count how many clues it took? I rather doubt it – That is why Forrest said that there were nine consecutive clues – otherwise we have no parameters. One person would solve it from bottom to top, another middle and spread each way. Some 12 clues, some three. Every “game” has to have a set of rules or caos ensues. JMO – JDA

        • I’ll agree to that JDA and I would like to add, don’t ignore what he said the 1st clue is.

        • JDA,

          It is very possible to solve the poem without knowing there are 9 clues. Begin it is a good place to start the path to the treasure knowing the poem is a map. Wwwh needs to be answered regardless.

          The rest is basically to understand what the poem is saying and be able to follow directions and things to look for. F didn’t intend to make clues. Then I believe he saw that there were 9 clues. IMO

        • JDA, Sorry for the reply delay. I was preoccupied with fixing dinner, aside from that I’m very slow in typing one key at a time. You said, can we “Solve the puzzle”, and then count how many clues it took? I rather doubt it” Not imo. He has given us parameters that aren’t necessary in solving the poem, but one absolutely has to start with the 1st clue, so stated by the man himself. Only then do they become progressively easier. IMO ONLY.

  67. A lot of folks here throw the “logic” word around constantly and there are tests out there to see if you are what you say.
    This ones about logic reasoning and I would love to see where you guys and gals stack up.
    Keep in mind it appears to me you need some imagination. It took me about half hour to finish and some really need some deep thinking and there is no emotion involved just a bunch of dots moving around on a grid where you have to reason out where they will end up on the next grid.
    Fun for me and let me know if you have any other logic tests you recommend.
    https://www.123test.com/logical-reasoning-test/
    Keep in mind this online test probably doesn’t indicate your exact level of logic because there are only 10 multiple Q’s.
    I have my test results and are very happy with them as most tests like this.

  68. This page is now closed to new comments. To continue the discussion please go to the newest Odds n Ends page

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