Forrest Gets Mail – 20


Mr. Fenn,
I have thoroughly enjoyed the treasures of your stories, and thank you for sharing them. I am blind, and my friends tell me that Ray Charles and I “look alike”. I am pretty suspicious of their use of those words.
My computer can read me your book as I turn the pages, but only the text. I can not see any of the photos or non-text items. Does this hurt my chances of solving your poem in any way?
If I should happen to come up with some sort of solution, I have people that can take me. I may even pretend to solve it just have an excuse to smell the waters you mention and feel the grasses and rocks under my feet.
I am already richer for having experienced your guided tour of your travels through life.
Thank you,
Well Fred, because you can’t look at a map you certainly are at a disadvantage. I know where the treasure is hidden, but if I were blind even I couldn’t go to that spot. Sorry. Thanks for listening to my book. f





324 thoughts on “Forrest Gets Mail – 20

  1. There’s “map” again.
    Seems like we are all blind at this point.
    Isn’t a map a picture?

    • “…Think, Analyze, Plan and *OBSERVE*”

      ~Not able to read maps is just a “disadvantage”~

      “…I did follow the clues in the poem when I hid the treasure chest,..”
      “…The clues should be followed in order Curtis. There is no other way to my knowlege.f”
      “… Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts. f”
      “… No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?…”
      “… All of them, in theory, but not likely in practice. A searcher *must go to the site* to find the treasure.
      “… It helps to know something about Rocky Mountain geography when making plans to search for my treasure. *Rocking chair ideas* can lead one to *the first few clues,* but a *physical presence is needed* to *complete* the solve.* Google Earth cannot help with the last clue.

      {“GE and/or a good map”-?- It doesn’t sound like either will take us all ‘the way’}

      What *ingredients* are not found on a “map / GE”… that ‘must’ be *observed*? ~ After the “first few clues”

      • Seeker – In my case, Fred would not be able to see my Ridgeline face blaze on my Google Earth-based topo map in Satellite view, nor the face and ears in topo viee, nor the Pyramid hidey spot in Satellite view, nor the Double Omega Island in Satellite nor topo view, nor the pic of Forrest on Lightning the horse with my Ridgeline face blaze behind him, nor my Glacial Erratic Owl blaze across the Msdison River, nor my Heart-shaped clearing in the pines in Satellite view, nor the Y on Google Earth firmed by the river confluence at Madison Junction….

        Ok, so Forrest, if blind, couldn’t go there, either, because he would need all these visual cues and clues to follow the Poem directions for BOTG. And then there are the road signs and the actual driving or biking required to do the TFTW part.

        And then there would be an issue with where to point the Bear Spray to defend himself against My Grizz…

        • Lisa wrote: “Forrest, if blind, couldn’t go there, either, because he would need all these visual cues and clues to follow the Poem directions for BOTG.”
          Oh my. Look, “see”, the assumptions you are making. Forrest said nothing about “visual cues”, nor did he say anything about “directions for BOTG.”

          Some searchers routinely “see” what they want to see, to justify some predetermined poem solution and treasure chest location.

          Ken (in Texas)

          • Ken (in Texas) – That us called an interpretation of Forrest’s words. Just like we are doing with Forrest’s Poem. Which is the same thing scholars like Seamus Heaney do to translate and interpret the work of poets, who are no longer available to provide confirmation. Like when Seamus did that with “Beowulf”.

            In our case, Forrest is not available for confirmation, either. And as in the stellar work of Seamus Heaney, others will always have their interpretations to argue. Like you always will, Ken.

            But eventually, in our case, the truth will be revealed when the bronze chest is found with the autobiography inside. IMO.

          • Ken (in Texas) – Siriusly, NOW do you See?:

            “The blaze is a physical thing. It’s not metaphorical……I mean, it doesn’t take a scientist to figure out that the blaze is something you can look at.” f

            ” I mean, I could give you a thousand different scenarios there. And all of them came to me in-by email. Everybody finds a different one. The fact is, the important one is out there.” f

            Straight from a Texan, but maybe not a Redneck.

          • I agree. I think he’s merely saying that a blind mans at a disadvantage because he can’t look at a map to marry the clues to and that the spot even for Fenn who knows the place would be hard to go to with out the use of sight

  2. hi,
    i totally understand where you are coming from.!
    i am leaglly blind right eye and left eye is following same path.
    but as both of us know to use our other sences to guide us.
    i to believe i know the spot…
    i wish you all the luck in this world…to get thru life. and dont let
    your disability get in the way of living life…to what you can…
    if you really believe you have the treasure spot maybe some
    one can help you achieve it!

  3. Well Fred, because you can’t look at a map you certainly are at a disadvantage. I know where the treasure is hidden, but if I were blind even I couldn’t go to that spot. Sorry. Thanks for listening to my book. f

    dear mr fenn …dont under estimate us visually impared people
    i to am legally blind visually impared. my fiance of 12 yrs has taken me thru many hand guided wood walking trails…
    i have diff…doing so…but im determined to find your chest@! never let health get in your way.!

      • There are Heroes, Superheroes and Masters of the Universe. I don’t know which category Erik Weihenmayer falls into but his standard is certainly higher than mine. Amazing.

        Thanks Lisa

        • Pauley T. – You are most welcome.

          Erik is probably even more inspiring to me. I am afraid of heights.

          Which is why I also idolize Jimmy and Alex, who won the Best Documentary Oscar for “Free Solo”. Shameless plug.

          • Lisa

            I think “Free Solo” (which was awesome) has more to do with the Chase than is realized.

            Strong Will=Motivation=Accomplishment

    • Fred and Kris,
      If you want to have a go at pursuing my solution to the treasure location, I’m happy to pass it on to you. It is impossible for me to be an active searcher, however, if you think I have a viable solution, it is yours to pursue. My main concern is your safety if you go searching for the treasure.

      Let me know, Fred or Kris, if you are interested. If so, can someone please pass my details on to Fred or Kris?

  4. Hi Fred;

    Good luck with your search. You may be able to “See” what many of us sighted individuals can not. Again, good luck – JDA

    • Raindrops keep falling on my head. You ALWAYS were so hard to understand – now u’re speaking French?

  5. Thanks Forrest and Fred. If you have someone be ur eyes on the map and botg, u may can do it. Its worth going out there anyways.

  6. Wow. The only word I can utter about this one is Zowie. Just Zowie!

    Thank you Forrest.


  7. Forrest, could Fred easily come within 500′ of the Treasure?

    Forrest, You said you made two trips from your car to hide the treasure. Besides walking, did you use any other methods of transportation to get back and forth between the car and the hide? Thanks, Edgar

    Edgar, your wording of the question prompts me to pause and wonder if I can answer it candidly, yet correctly. Were all the evidence truly known, and I answered in the positive, you might say I was prevaricating, by some definitions of the word. And if I answered in the negative, you may claim that I was quibbling. So I will stay quiet on that subject. Thanks for the question anyway. f…aricating/


    • Tom Terrific – Great minds think alike. Again. See my response to Seeker above, posted 8 minutes before yours. Thanks for supporting my perspective with evidence.

      • Tom Terrific – I do not think someone who is alone and visually challenged could ride a horse out Cabin Creek, for example. Or could soley navigate the current on the Madison River in a canoe or float tube, or while wearing waders with a walking staff, to place the bronze chest below my Glacial Erratic Owl blaze across the river.

        After parking the car at that Rest Area…

        Crossing the highway with cars going 75mph to get to the Cabin Creek Trailhead would be difficult, also.

      • Tom Terrific – I will add a capital “IT” being “The Madison River” for read aloud emphasis in yet another of Forrest’s written response quotes:

        “Edgar, your wording of the question prompts me to pause and wonder if I can answer IT candidly, yet correctly.”

        In my solve, Forrest, if your candid and correct answer to Edgar was ,”IT”, we would be all done here.

        “A River Runs Through IT”

        The Madison River.

  8. Were all the evidence truly known, anyone could be with in 500′ as they floated merrily along.

    I hope my pants don’t turn Brown and Ms Ford find out that I been playin Hookie…


    • Now why must we walk less than Several Miles?
      Were all the evidence truly known, we might need a fly rod to catch the chest and watch out for snaggin your fly high up in trees. Or was that brown spot on the back of your pants, not the fly? Anyway fat chance of ff answerin this.

      I think I liked the book on “My Childhood in Montana” just as well as this one, both are warm, but ff if would have gone to school in that “Chapter 13” which is titled “Teacherage” why at our age Forrest we would be shovelin coal.


      • Tom Terrific – You wrote, “Hookie”. Work “IT”, Tom. With a fly rod.

        And the ‘Brown pants” could be from slipping on the muddy stream bank, during the “water high” of Spring runoff out Cabin Creek. Another interpretation for “home of Brown”. Or, from being scared Sh*tless, while running from My Grizz In THERE; a Brown bear. That was, “…up a frightening creek” in “Oh, the Places You’ll Go”, by Dr. Seuss.

      • TT, why would you say this:
        Now why must we walk less than Several Miles?
        I don’t remember f saying we must walk less than “several” miles.
        If you are saying we don’t have a long walk, that would also be incorrect. I think these are your assumptions, or please supply facts.
        f has defined “too far” as “long distances”, ” if you are walking long distances looking for the treasure, you are walking too far”.
        The poem tells us that what we have “to walk” is “too far”, so what is your definition of “several”? Because, in context, it looks like you are saying we don’t have far to walk. (there is a way to define what f means by “few”, and the answer would yield a long walk, just curious why you don’t believe that?) Or maybe I’m just not understanding what you are trying to say.

    • Tom Terrific – Did you hear about the 38 inch Brown trout that was found dead at the base of the Madison Slide that formed Earthquake Lake in 1959? I just read that on the Montana Anglers link I found for OS2. I heard about it in late July of 2013 at Campfire Lodge in person, also. There’s a stump on Quake Lake near the shore in “Flywater” that I’m gonna look quickly down into. My library friend is gonna ask the author’s fly fishing buddy here for that exact location.

      • Tom Terrific – Wow! Also huge!

        Just to clarify, the 38″ Deceased Brown trout was found at the base of the Madison Slide in Spring of 2013, just before my first BOTG trip to Campfire Lodge in late July that year.

        I thought IT was a fish story. But, no.


        Hasta mañana, Senor Terrific!

  9. The only thing worse than being blind is having sight but no vision. – Helen Keller

    • CrazyFox – Awesome. Helen wrote, “no vision”, which I would translate as ‘without seeing with the eyes and the courage and the wisdom of the heart’.

      “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
      Look quickly down your quest to cease.
      But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
      Just take the chest and go in peace.” – Forrest Fenn

      And where does the human heart reside? In the chest.

      • CrazyFox – Conversely, could the chest reside in the Heart?

        My Heart-shaped clearing “in the wood” could very well have been my hidey spot. But then I did the Robert Langdon at the Louvre thing, and realized that Cour Napoleon was just the final blaze to the “As above, So below” Pyramid hidey spot uphill from there. Thank you, Dan Brown. Wish I was able to go to college at Exeter Academy, as you did.

    • Wise you are as for you have both as I believe a few others have also imo. As to Fred if you can still see the piper ship yard then old friend maybe You will make the trip sooner than later if not you then hope your into the wood under heavy loads just watch your step if you desire to rest on the blaze

  10. Is he calling a specific searcher blind? How old would you have to be to even know who Ray Charles is? Are we to believe a blind person would ask about photos?…entire thing is beyond strange.

    • Ray Charles?! That would have to be a mighty big scant someone is living under if they never heard of him.

      • Driving across western Iowa to my first BOTG, I was loving the view of the vast black loam fields, the gently rolling hills, and the undulating ribbon of highway making music with the tires of the WRX. All of a sudden Ray Charles singing America The Beautiful came on the radio. In my middle age I get way too emotional when such things happen. I think Ray’s rendition of this song is the best ever.

        • Good luck on your search! I’m leaving for my first BOTG. I am very excited for the thrill of the chase!

  11. But if someone were to help him who isn’t blind, then he might find it that way. So, I would suggest he looked for a collaborator to correspond with and then maybe together they can share riches new and old.

    – Tobias

    • Francis Fontaine – Speaking of the last line in the first stanza:

      “And hint of riches new and old.”

      David Old
      Shiloh Old
      Robin Olds

      ‘An Ace in the hole’ – Heartwood?
      Flying Ace – “In case of war, break glass.” (the last line of Robin’s book)
      Robin Hood in Sherwood Forest?
      David’s bio says he was, “earning his keep”. Is that a reference to, “I can keep my secret where”? In the vitual ‘Heart’ or ‘keep’ of a Medieval castle; like the one depicted in the siege scene on the bronze chest? Often these scenes depicted the “quest” for love, I read.
      Tree rings are mentioned. Is that a reference to time and my Double Omega Island below that Heart-shaped final blaze, looking like a Circumpunct; the alchemical symbol for GOLD?
      And is the “brave and in the wood” line a reference to that also, signifying an arrow hitting the bullseye of a target to find the GOLD? Dan Brown? What do you think? What would Richard the Lionhart think? What would Richard III think? What would Richard Feynman think?

      All IMO.

          • John Edo – Do you mean the daffodils Forrest mentioned? The one in the famous Waterhouse painting of this topic?

            That looks like a forest fen, which would be a perfect place ‘For rest’ for eternity, ‘wood’ it not? IMO.

      • Interesting take on Olds Lisa!

        But the last line of Robin Olds book is “I have flown home”

        Now why would Forrest not be able to get to his own resting place if he could not see?
        Are we supposed to find something BOTG that leads us to the exact spot…
        I still think he would be able to get pretty close he said once …
        “both the treasure and its hidden location are so vivid in my mind I don’t need to see them with my eyes again.”

        • Spallies – Thank you! Went to Old Santa Fe Trading Co to get this:

          Home is where the Heart is…

          My quote was about the story the Pentagon folks circulated about the hero, Robin Olds. Stellar. Mythic.

          And I wouldn’t be anywhere near my hidey spot out Cabin Creek in the ‘pitch dark’ or ‘tarry scant’, as it were. I ‘wood’ bring a flashlight and a sandwich, ‘Just-in(ian) Case’.

          I can’t help it. Bad puns just pop into my head! And so do idioms.

          Now I have “hear me all and listen good” stuck in my head. Imagine being blind and deaf, like Helen Keller was. I have wondered if hearing the Spring Creek uphill from my Heart-shaped grove ‘wood’ lead me from there to my Pyramid hidey spot? That creek would need to be followed off-trail. “Worth the cold” of doing that in my holey trail runners? A flying ace like that Brown pilot from Canada, which Snoopy was modeled after, would make like a “lead dog” and do that. Great song, IMO.

          Ok, now that quote from ‘The Sound and the Fury” is in my head:

          “Life is like a walking shadow…told by an Idiot.”

          Was that Shakespeare the Genius??


          An Idiot….



          Especially in “Such Heroes are Few” by Forrest Fenn.

          • The blaze to me is a beautiful sunrise . It can be considered many things to individualss Indian Joe hasn’t even been mentioned. Jennifer Norred.

          • Jennifer – In the past, under my former blog handle, but maybe on another site, I mentioned staying at Cabin #2 at Campfire Lodge and incorporated all the characters of Huckleberry Finn in my post. Including Indian Joe. And those “in the wood” floorboards. But then Forrest said something about the treasure not being associated with any structure. It was fun, anyway.

        • Spallies – Thank you! Went to Old Santa Fe Trading Co to get this:

          Home is where the Heart is…

          My quote was about the story the Pentagon folks circulated about the hero, Robin Olds. Stellar. Mythic.

          And I wouldn’t be anywhere near my hidey spot out Cabin Creek in the ‘pitch dark’ or ‘tarry scant’, as it were. I ‘wood’ bring a flashlight and a sandwich, ‘Just-in(ian) Case’.

          I can’t help it. Bad puns just pop into my head! And so do idioms.

          Now I have “hear me all and listen good” stuck in my head. Imagine being blind and deaf, like Helen Keller was. I have wondered if hearing the Spring Creek uphill from my Heart-shaped grove ‘wood’ lead me from there to my Pyramid hidey spot? That creek would need to be followed off-trail. “Worth the cold” of doing that in my holey trail runners? A flying ace like that Brown pilot from Canada, which Snoopy was modeled after, would make like a “lead dog” and do that. Great song, IMO.

          Ok, now that quote from ‘The Sound and the Fury” is in my head:

          “Life is like a walking shadow…told by an Idiot.”

          Was that Shakespeare the Genius??


          An Idiot….



          Especially in “Such Heroes are Few” by Forrest Fenn.


  12. Well IMO, this put an end to the debate about the pictures in the book. They are important. .not only that but f more or less said the map is in the book ..

  13. The ole cooooooot just shot so many people’s theory of just needing the poem right out the window haha glad I always had a good map .

    • Hi Dg. At one time I wanted to call him that too. Now I have another term for him. It is more along the lines of ‘prankster’

      I would love to have some dirt on him. But then, some dirt is moved, around two easily so it would probably come back at me. Guess i’ll just stick with my rock solid solve and hope for the best. Good luck to u too.

  14. This poem, quoted by Forrest speaks to all we who search for the truth, even sight challenged to be PC about this scrapbook, er, I mean, “Forrest gets mail”, show us now the truth about “Tarry Scant” and lets be done with the matter. This will be the omega clue so to speak.

    Out of the night that covers me,
    Black as the pit from pole to pole,
    I thank whatever gods may be
    For my unconquerable soul.

    In the fell clutch of circumstance
    I have not winced nor cried aloud.
    Under the bludgeonings of chance
    My head is bloody, but unbowed.

    Beyond this place of wrath and tears
    Looms but the Horror of the shade,
    And yet the menace of the years
    Finds and shall find me unafraid.

    It matters not how strait the gate,
    How charged with punishments the scroll,
    I am the master of my fate,
    I am the captain of my soul.


  15. Aw Fred, I’m sorry that Forrest gave you discouraging feedback, but he tells it like it is and doesn’t want to give you false hopes.

    Without sight, a trip out to the Rockies is still worthwhile though. When I’m out hiking around, I oftentimes close my eyes next to a mountain stream, or up on a windy ridgeline, to enjoy the sounds and feels of the mountain nature.

    Do you have to lie to your friends about the Chase in order to get them to take you out on a trip to the Rockies? I hope that’s not the case! Why not tell them about the Chase yourself and let them come up with some sort of solve that they can take you along on?

  16. “I know where the treasure is hidden, but if I were blind even I couldn’t go to that spot.” f.

    Say whaaaat???

    • Do not confuse “go”
      With “get to”

      Go infers authority
      As get to does ability.

      Blind – of concealed or hidden identy

      Great, the chipmunks are now carding people

      • Exactly. When Forrest said “I know where the treasure is hidden, but if I were blind even I couldn’t go to that spot” he was talking about going ALONE to that spot. Of course, he can take the guide that is not blind and say him/her where to go starting from parking lot. Or he can just say several words about that spot and person who is listening will go there and take the chest. As far as we know Forrest also said that he can (potentially) say about the spot only to one person – to his grandson.

        • Hi Andy;

          I was sure that Forrest has said that no one but himself knows where Indulgence is secreted. Can you please show us where you got this:

          “As far as we know Forrest also said that he can (potentially) say about the spot only to one person – to his grandson”

          – Thanks in advance – JDA

          • Hi JDA,
            this statement was published here:

            Exact citation is:
            “He says that nobody—not even his wife or their two daughters—has been told where the chest can be found. He shows no favourable disposition toward the most inveterate searchers, some of whom have made more than 100 forays where warm waters halt below the home of Brown and got it wrong every time. He says, “If I was going to tell anybody where it is, I’d tell my grandson.”

          • Thanks for the response. As you quoted: ““He says that nobody—not even his wife or their two daughters—has been told where the chest can be found. ” I think that even if he said, “, “If I was going to tell anybody where it is, I’d tell my grandson.” that it is dangerous to take the quote out of context and say, “As far as we know Forrest also said that he can (potentially) say about the spot only to one person – to his grandson.”

            The article is second hand, you then interpret it but state it as fact, and at least for me, this is dangerous – JMO – JDA

      • did the heart feel what The eyes seen it’s a story untold and memories to unfold . Forrest truly was a architecture genius when he built this I learn from it everyday and even on rare unscheduled nights I am set on making another round about to see if I can get to chest If I can get through the traffic

    • Why does this confound you OZ?
      Seems clear to me that a blind person could have trouble walking around in the Rocky Mountains in a place not near a human made trail looking for a blaze…

      I think Forrest is just making a sensible statement…at least this is what I would expect…that it would be next to impossible for a blind person to negotiate the terrain…and not at all possible for that blind person to find the blaze.

      • Yes I agree that is Forrest being sensible.
        Searches want to take a clue from this?
        What I remind myself is that Forrest has said:
        Its not easy.
        And its high but not all the way to the top. HE said this after people where at high unsafe Rocky mountain tops.
        Not exact qoute but…close.

      • Good question Dal. First off, what you mentioned is one side of the puzzle. We know that ff knew exactly where he would hide the treasure, he didn’t need a map and the clues came later. The spot is special to him and the connection is umbilical. Still, as a blind person he will not find the spot. Of course he can get to the nearest road with help. One question is, how many times did he go there? It seems to me, and this explains a bit more why he ‘followed’ the clues when he hid it, that whatever ‘marker’ we need to find to go off that hiking trail or to that place not in close proximity to a human trail must be seen at a distance. There is no wood post or rock to touch, not an intersecting hiking trail, or creek, etc… Don’t forget that even though there is no human trail if we have the correct solve it will take us within several feet or steps of the treasure. That has always been interesting to me, how do we find the exact spot where to go off that trail…

        The second and more importantly is the idea that a blind person can listen to the poem and could not be able to solve the clues without looking at the map. The question is, what kind of data must we look at in a map? Say my WWH is Madison Junction because the warm waters from the Yellowstone Caldera flow down the Firehole and halt at the Madison, is this information not available to a blind person? The blind can’t see it in a map, but if that is the way to solve that clue then he could definitely find out about it. Same thing with place-names, can’t the blind find the location of any place on google using verbal commands if that is what solving the clue gave him?
        I’m not sure if I can ask the question correctly, what ‘type’ of information we can find in a map that will be near impossible for a blind person to find?

        • Oz10,

          Your question, “what ‘type’ of information we can find in a map that will be near impossible for a blind person to find?”

          I’m sure that a blind person can find the first clue, because we have to LEARN where wwh. If we learn this first clue, one can come to know the location before hand and the place has a name.

          For the remaining 8 clues one has to see a map in order to find them. If you have the right map, which wwwh causes one to select the right map, then with the right assistant it shouldn’t be hard to find the remaining clues as they get progressively easier.

          I and my wife often work with and help a woman that is blind. It’s mostly up to her to make the decisions, we only aid her. She does a pretty good job with what she knows and learns and relies on intuition and imagination to exist very much in a normal life as we sighted do.

          With out the AID to see, a blind person doesn’t stand a chance, with AID they have as much chance as the sighted would have in finding the chest. The only hick-up would be the blaze as the AIDE might not be on the same page as the blind searcher.

          All IMHO and Just Say’n

          • Thanks CharlieM, that seems logical to me as well. We just don’t know if that is what he meant, that the blind will only have a problem with the last 8 clues only. I think being at a disadvantage means right from the start. He could have given that answer just like the little girl from India.

          • Charlie, you say for the other 8 you need a map. Are you then saying that the blaze can be seen on a map?
            doesn’t the poem give you an “x” on a map? so wouldn’t you need the map once you solve the poem? A map is a helpful tool, but it’s not the answer to the clues. Especially since f said that you need to be on site to answer the 9th clue, he doesn’t mention that you need a map to solve that clue. It just sounds like you are saying that you need a map from the get go. IMO, that would get in the way of solving the poem.

        • OZ10 – Great analysis! I agree. Clues 1-2 could be determined by such descriptions and place names: Madison Junction and Madison Canyon in my solve. And I could get an idea of what TFTW is from that book Preface. But then I need a good map to see if “IT” is more than Forrest’s 10 miles to “put in below the home of Brown. And then I need a car, or horse, or bike or maybe even an old Yellowstone Stagecoach to get to Barns Hole #1 to fish or to continue to Baker’s Hole or even to the Cabin Creek Trailhead, for my original solve. There is a huge Big Brown trout in the landscape at Barns Hole on my topo map, also. Need to see that for one solve.

          But can’t Fred just call for an Uber? Maybe the driver could read that important sign about Brown trout spawning routes at Baker’s Hole…


          • Lisa Cesari,

            You seem to be hung up on the first two IT’s in the poem. It seems as though IT has different meanings for you. If I were to replace IT with THE PATH it all makes a lot of sense.

            Begin “the path” wwwh and take “the path” in the canyon down, … I’m not sure IT has different other meanings as you suggest, that’s just me…aren’t we all to follow the path to the treasure?

            Even our blind lady thought IT means path without any coaxing from me. So I’m gonna stick with her and toss out IT to mean nothing else but path. She’s smart as a whip and very logical, I think I’ll sit down with her and read the book (TTOTC) and the poem to see how she interprets things. By the way she is trying to learn wwwh, it’ll be interesting as to what she comes up with.

            Just Say’n

          • Sorry, I should have said, “So I’m gonna stick with her and toss out IT to mean anything else other than path.”

            Mind going fast, fingers not translating correctly.

          • OZ10 – From pdenver and “Treasures Galore” in TFTW:

            “Too Far To Walk,” page 200:

            “I’ll happily share my national forests with you, but please try to stay at least twenty miles away.”

            “IT’s” about 10.3 miles from Madison Junction, driving down Madison Canyon, to Barns Holes Road turnoff. Gotta go at least another 10 miles from there to find Forrest’s special spot,.IMO. And not by walking the Madison River with a dingy.

            And doesn’t Forrest’s quote allude to being in a secluded National Forrest, as in USFS property, vs. inside a National Park?

            And there is Montana State Parks land, ie. in the Hebgen Lake District.

            What do you think? Anyone??

            And I saw your post, Charlie. Thanks for the input. As long as the first clue as WWWH is as perfect as it seems to be iny solves, it doesn’t really matter. But “IT’s” very cool that all references to “IT” being the Madison River flows so nicely for all three of my solves. So that’s my story and I’m sticking to “IT”!

        • FF is talking in a bit of riddles here it sounds like. The blind person can’t find it. He has help but cannot read a map so cannot solve the clues. FF on the other hand doesn’t need a map, but if he were blind all of the sudden and doesn’t have any help to the spot then he wouldn’t be able to do it.

          If a person were blind they would need both help to the spot, and the knowledge of it’s location, since they cannot see a map. Got it? Good 🙂

          • Hello Aaron. Since Mr. Fenn is currently the only one who knows where he’s hidden the treasure chest, he would not ask anyone to take him there.

          • Oops I posted in the wrong spot. Meant to post this here:

            Yes PD, my point exactly. This is why he cannot go if he is blind.

      • My vote is for navigation being the problem if blind. Forrest needing to see to find the chest seems to imply one or more clues solves provide visual navigation. For me, those clues are in the last two stanzas.

        • Dave B. – Navigation a problem? Is Forrest flying blind?

          Normally, an archaic Asterism could come in handy here…especially if Forrest forgot to name the Poem, which he said he did. Asterism as title: Three Stars Triangle.

          “As above, So below.”

          So, metaphorically, an Asterism astronomically above could aid in flight navigation; namely, the Big Dipper. (And I am as constant as Polaris, just like my illustious ancestor, Julius Caesar.)

          Three Dots Triangle (Therefore)

          If THREE STAR TRIANGLE above,

          Then THREE STAR TRIANGLE below?

          “I give you title to the gold.”?


          • E.C. Waters – What did Forrest say about searchers being within 500′?

            In traditional Greek numerals, phi has a value of 500 (φʹ)

            Note that little minute mark next to the symbol.

          • Matthew 6:22

            “The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.”

            King James Version (KJV)

          • Cal – Google

            According to later traditions, the right eye represented the sun and so is called the “Eye of Ra” while the left represented the moon and was known as the “eye of Horus” (although it was also associated with Thoth). However, in many cases it is not clear whether it is the left or right eye which is referred to.

          • Cal – Would that be aka ‘An Eye for an Eye’ or ‘An Eye for an I’, maybe, in Forrest’s response to “Fred’s” email?

      • Dal,

        I noticed a proof reading mistake in the email by Fred. It should say, “I may even pretent to have a solve just “to” have an excuse…”

        Can you provide some insight on the mistake and give your opinion on whether or not it’s intentional?

        The reason I ask is because he mispelled Weatherill in TTOTC. The same mispelling is on his grave stone and is corrected on a plaque nearby. Just trying to leave no log unturned.

        • I can only add that I believe Forrest does a copy and paste when moving things around…just as I do…
          So I suspect that is the way Fred wrote it…whether or not Fred did it intentionally is beyond my limited mystic abilities..
          By the made a typo too…”pretent”…

        • Dave B. – Nice Catch! I’ll bite.

          You wrote (corrected):

          “I may even pretend to have a solve just “to” have an excuse…”

          ‘solve just’ * ‘have an excuse’

          An asterisk is often used to represent a missing letter. Like I have done in some four letter words. But an apostrophe also is used to represent a missing letter. Like in a contraction like “there’ll” in the Poem. Asterisks look like STARS and apostrophes look like BANANAS. And that “there’ll” reminds me of a Richard Wetherill. As one of those “riches”..”old” in the Poem, maybe?

          And the “to” is missing. Could that be, ‘T.O. is missing’ or ‘Missing T.O.’?

          Where there is a “put in”, there must be a ‘Take Out’, right? Or is Forrest ‘missing Time Outside’? Or is Forrest ‘missing Take Out’ as in, Chinese food???

          All IMO. There’s always a storm in my brain….

          • Dave B. – And with this Poem line:

            “There’ll be…”

            “There will be….”

            “There Will be…”

            Forrest likes to play with capitalization, right?

            There William be…

            There William Fenn be…

            There William Shakespeare be…

            All IMO. Just my ideas.

            Now to find the “up your creek” parts to follow.

          • Dave B. and E.C. Waters – Have either of you seen the historical movie, “Amazing Grace”? Thinking about the famous Williams in there and the person who wrote that song:

            “Amazing Grace,
            How sweet the sound.
            To save a wretch like me.

            “I once was lost,
            But now I’m found.
            Was blind, but now I see.”

            Remember the Graciela painting??

            The Chase is going to be an A-Maze-ing Race this Summer! Now where’s my Big Ball of String, Ariadne, to work those Angels, I mean, Angles???

          • Hello Lisa. With the mention of Grace, George Burns, who was mentioned in TTOTC, was married to Gracie. There’s also the scrapbook with Grace Kelly mentioned in it.

          • Dave B. – William Fenn liked to fish Watson Creek. Donna M. rode horseback up that creek without a paddle to Coffin Creek and Coffin Lakes. That about covers the:

            “There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
            Just heavy loads and water high.”

            Coffins are heavy. And those lakes are way up in there.

            She also saw many large Grizz prints in the mud. And the owner of Firehole Ranch has done a lot to restore trout habitat. I wonder if the Brown trout go up that creek to spawn from Hebgen Lake?

            That about covers “home of Brown”, along with the historic Watson Creek Ranch cabins.

            All IMO.

  17. Do not confuse “go”
    With “get to”

    Go infers authority
    As get to does ability.

    Blind – of concealed or hidden identy

    Great, the chipmunks are now carding people

  18. Must “see” the grasses. You will be snow blind. If you go now you will not have the advantage. “May” you wait you will. don’t forget…. not yet!

    • lisa c – Good one!

      Why do I feel like I am talking to myself again?

      I See, said the blind man…

      I See Forrest’s profile on the Western border of Montana, looking down on me here in Central Idaho. He is saying, “Not yet.’

  19. “… you certainly are at a disadvantage.”

    So you’re saying there’s a chance! 🙂

  20. “Well Fred, because you can’t look at a map you certainly are at a disadvantage. I know where the treasure is hidden, but if I were blind even I couldn’t go to that spot. Sorry. Thanks for listening to my book. f”

    Fred can find the Treasure with a Braille copy of the poem and a partner who can see. This is just my opinion of course.

    • Agree Sparrow, maybe the big picture of this post is that the pictures are important. or at least something to do with them. A partner that could see may not describe a picture correctly. There must be a place on your path that you have to change direction on, and at a certain distance. There must be a measurement that needs to be taken from a certain spot, or a blind person may be able to find. That certain spot must be a BotG place. And, if a measurement needs to be used, that means numbers…IMO.

  21. Thanks Fred, dal and Mr. Fenn,
    I can hear him now, so who’s the phoney? Pretty Savvy, on a rustic note, just to weave a little bit of this into that anyway.

    • Hit the road Jack, perhaps weve all been there a time or two before. Beyond Burke and almost ready to hang out our shingle. Before lifting that hanger door though, remember there’s no such thing as flying alone. So leave the little DoDo behind and never forget the Beauty waiting under your wing when you arrive. Even if your still living in a land down under…theres always hope.

    • Aren’t we lucky? – Those of us who have 20/20 vision, or something close to that??? Thank our lucky stars – JDA

      • That’s too philosophical/religious for me. Should we thank our lucky stars
        for our diseases and injuries?

      • You are soooo correct JDA. Vision is important and sometimes we have to get it corrected so we can see clearly.

  22. Shout out to Fred. I wonder if you *see* things when you /hear/ Fenn’s poem that I’m blind to when I look at it. Do you read Braille? I wonder if your fingertips would *see* anything differently than your ears hearing the poem. I love the idea of taking in the clues through multiple modalities. Maybe I’ll ask someone to read the poem to me tonight.

    Anyway, I found this article on a method for 3D printed topo maps using data you can import from Google Maps. The details are way out of my area of expertise, but how’s that for hands on art? If you find one or have one made I would just love to check it out. Good luck in your chase!


    • Ceit definition

      1. an excessively favorable opinion of one’s own ability, importance, wit, etc.; vanity. 2. a fancy or whim. 3. an elaborate, fanciful metaphor, esp. of a strained or far-fetched nature. 4. something conceived in the mind; a thought; idea. 5. a fancy, purely decorative article.

      • Wallace D. Wattles. “There is no labor from which most people shrink as they do from that of sustained and consecutive thought; it is the hardest work in the world.

  23. Forrest, you sly ol’ fox… I want to find this so badly just to hear your explanation for so many parts of this chase!

  24. Anyone who thinks that Forrest simply wanted to post a reply to discourage the blind, “can not see the (real) Forrest for the trees.”

    You have been given more gifts/hints, if – you choose to accept them.

    My dilemma remains and this kind of post just leaves me more frustrated that my ethical boundaries may likely differ vastly from his, yours or those of others.

    • And the beauty is they’ve been so artfully crafted that everyone gets just the gift/hint they want – no two alike.

      But only if they want one bad enough.

    • Sounds like we’re in a similar situation, ED, or at least we think we are. I feel your pain. Been going on since July of last year for me. It’s driving me crazy and ticking me off as well. Trying to figure out what to do about – not about to breach those boundaries.

  25. This is a nice letter. I’m glad Fred was able to hear the stories. If there was anything we are to take from the letter and response, I think everyone could see/hear something differently. Fred’s comment about smell the waters might hint to Stinking Creek. Being blind would be in darkness, which we’ve read in different stories in TTOTC. Being in the dark, one could be lost, which Mr. Fenn and Donnie were looking for Lewis and Clark. Eyes may refer to Ojo Caliente. “Looks like” reminds me of previous discussions of metaphors and similes, as well as, twins, mirrors, etc. in TTOTC book. Mr. Fenn’s response about seeing/hearing reminds me of his added “My Two Senses” in his OUAW book.

    This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

  26. Thank you for “listening” to my book…could this be a possible suggestion or instruction? Perhaps in the key of “Texas drawl”. Hear me all! I dunno.

      • pdenver – Love the archaic references to swimming and waterways! Thank you! They fit my Baker’s Hole solve, and the “how sweet the sound” part of the “Amazing Grace” song.

        From Middle English sound, sund, from Old English sund (“the power, capacity, or act of swimming; swimming; sea; ocean; water; sound; strait; channel”), from Proto-Germanic *sundą (“swimming; sound”)

    • Sandy – Great Catch!

      I suggest again that everyone read the Poem, over and over, aloud, for homophones and metaphors and idioms references, that seem to be lurking in it, IMO.

      And searchers could go back to book events videos, when Forrest recited the Poem, with his Texas drawl, right?

      And wouldn’t it be great if Forrest narrated TTOTC, TFTW and OUAW, to be released as EAudioBooks? We could listen to those in our cars, while on The Chase! What do you and pdenver think???

      • Hello Lisa. It’s a nice thought to listen to the stories while in our vehicles. For me, I think I would find it more fun reading the book and going back through the pages to find things I was looking for just as I’ve done the years I’ve been involved searching. Pretty soon, things will become all technical and picking up a book will become a rarity.

        • pdenver – I prefer actual books, also. But EAudioBooks have become the trend here in our library for Rocky Mountain road warriors. Some great celebrity narrators in some of them.

  27. Does anyone feel like this has become a team effort? A collaboration to solve Fenn’s poem and put the pieces together? It’s a very interesting intellectual challenge as well as an obvious endeavor to find the actual treasure. I wonder if it would behoove everyone to start compiling somewhat of a database of areas searched? Or is that just plain ridiculous…?

    • Aaron – I very much hope this is becoming a team effort. That is my goal.

      At some point, a map of searched locations was created and posted. I do not know what it was called or where it is.

    • Hi Aaron, I’ve had the same thoughts and may have mentioned it on here before. A database of area’s searched, using different colors to indicate the level of detail searched, would be outstanding. The challenge would be to get enough people to share their locations, but worth it if they can get past that.

      • Aaron;

        You have mentioned this before. Count me out.

        If you want it done, why not go to
        1) Other’s Adventures
        2) Armchair Adventures
        3) Dal’s adventures.

        Since these folks have disclosed where they searched, you could come up with a pretty comprehensive map. It might not show how thoroughly it was searched, but if you get a number of people searching the same area, one could conclude that it had been well searched.

        Just a suggestion – JDA

        • Good advice JDA thanks. I would not expect any type of info like this from you, or anyone else that is still searching their area. The most likely to share are people that have given up on an area.

          If one were to know information about how much an area has been searched before getting far into it themselves, then it might save them a good amount of time and money. Time and money is something all searchers need more of.

    • Aaron its been A Team effort for going on 7 years now. thats me Bur, Luckydog and Zelda.

      i think.

      • bob greene – Yes. I wrote, “A Team effort” in my post. Adding myself, Deb, JC1117, The Wolf, Anna, 49 dollers, DeCall…

        We were always open and shared freely on Mike’s blog. Unfortunately, that blog is no longer up and running.

        • Too bad the place was shut down. There was lots of good discussion over there and was a good archive of ideas from some very intelligent searchers.

  28. From Charlie’s Fly Box in Arvada and I think they have guide service. The all gray matter is my preference, however I don’t believe this is the f stop Mr. Fenn was referring to on the map.

    Ray Charles

    Pattern Description:

    Yup, it’s called the Ray Charles because even a blind man can catch fish with it. This pattern also comes from the Bighorn River (also see the Soft Hackle Sowbug) and is another simple pattern that knocks the crap out of those poor Montana trout. Imitating a Sowbug, the Ray Charles can be tied in a variety of colors. Pink, tan, grey and white are all good colors for the ostrich herl, while the pearl flashback and red thread remain a constant. Twist ’em up, drive north, tie ’em on, reel ’em in. Do I have to explain everything??

    • Yes – LOL. I don’t fly fish but am thinking about taking it up. Maybe I’ll catch something……

    • Strawshadow – Yeah, I thought maybe Forrest read that Montana Anglers link I posted for OS2 about Cable Car Run. I will go get it to check the date and time vs. when this scrapbook was posted.

      Here’s a reference from that link to the Upper Madison, in the tailwaters of Hebgen Dam:

      “Between the Lakes is a swift, boulder strewn run that is best suited to nymph fishing. In addition to the flies discussed above, classic tailwater patterns like a Ray Charles or Scud are worth a try in this section.”

      I will let my fly fishing librarian friend know, Forrest. But she had that link when she did an overnight in West Yellowstone this past Sunday night. And she drove all over tarnation doing reconnaissance for our trip together. When we will be fly fishing the Madison River.


        • Strawshadow – And like I didn’t notice the name “Fred”! Remember “Ferd” in Forrest’s Scrapbook #166 (or ‘AFF’, IMO)?:

          Frederick means ‘Sage’ or ‘Wise’. And we both know that Glacial Erratic Owl Boulder blaze does look like an Owl, Forrest. Ask Donna M. and that fly fisherman in that canoe. He probably had a Ray Charles tied to his line that day. Where Bob Jacklin caught that 10lb Brown trout. At the Day Use Area.

          And I am looking forward to going out to my new Backwards Bike S blaze, to search for a Cairn like “Angel’s” in SB #166. Baker’s Hole Campground is still closed, but I can see on my topo map how you, Forrest, probably walked or rode your bike to swim there.

          So, considering Montana stream laws, then,…would my ‘Captain Kidd Island’ be in the Public Domain? An ‘Island in the Stream’, as it were? And do you, Forrest, want to join my librarian friend and me there in a few weeks? We probably need three to avoid the curse. You bring the shovel and your rod and waders and tackle box. We’ll bring same. It will be Midnight with no flashlights aloud. Oh, and bring Shiloh. Blushing.


          • MJ – I think you are correct about the misspelling thing. As Seeker quoted:

            “…The clues should be followed in order Curtis. There is no other way to my knowlege.f”

            Ring that bell loudly.

          • BadgeR – No! Is he? Oh, woe is me. There are so few such suitors, who can fly a Piper plane to my search area.

            I thought I read that Shiloh is living with Forrest and his wife in Santa Fe?

        • William;

          As you can see, there is a “reply” button below your post. I clicked on it, and am now posting a “reply” to your post. If you want to “reply” to someones post up thread – click on the “reply” button below the post that you want to reply to – That is how it works.

          Sometimes several people will reply to the same post – each new post is added to the bottom – That is how it works.

          Welcome to the blog, and welcome to the Chase – JDA

    • I got it. Another fishing story. That’s a long cast from Colorado to Montana. Why wouldn’t you just visit your local bait shop and ask them for the Ray Charles. If that doesn’t work hange it up and try a new hobby.

      • Speaking of hanging it up – I wondered myself if FF hung everything up in his closet – and it looked so dang organized in the pics. Perhaps there is a secret hidden in there – what do you think wise Grasshopper?

        • Well americana. My closet is stuffed full and unorganized, and if that’s any hint to how wise this bug is I’ll take a windshield down the road.
          I was just fishin. But got no bites.
          Just don’t put me on the hook.
          Thanks for the humor.
          GH. Forgot in my opinion

    • Speaking of gray matter reminded me of something I read that I would like to share:

      “Every person’s brain assesses unknown situations differently: Those with thinner sections of gray matter, for example, tend to perceive less of a threat and therefore seek greater thrills. No matter what type of thrill a person is seeking, the reaction triggers an increase in testosterone. Vision narrows. Adrenaline shoots into the body, which increases heart rate. With the heart beating faster, we get more oxygen. The body redirects oxygen to the brain as fast as it can. The feeling often lasts less than 60 seconds, and the immediate aftermath is another flood of mood-boosting chemicals. This is what leads thrill-seekers to chase the process again and again.”

      The Thrill of the Chase………..

  29. Just love these little oddities…TTOTC – “There was this one guy, John Charles whatever, who didn’t like me or the sign much. He told my friend Billy Joe Ray that he was going to beat up on me just so he could see how high I’d bounce.”

  30. But Forrest, a blind man can’t see his own face, much less a non existent “X marks the spot” on a map.

  31. Dal,

    Was it you or Forrest sharing that image?

    Thanks for the reply and ALL that you do to facilitate the flow of info!

  32. I would agree that there are a lot of Fred’s

    This scrapbook fred (blind fred)
    Scrapbook 166 fred (Angels cheeting husband)
    Fred Harman (red rider)
    Fred Harvey (silver bracelet)
    “old Fred” (Frosty’s real name)
    Mrs. Erwin Rommel’s son Manfred
    Dear Fred (Martha Scotts husband passage 2)

    Oh!!! and Me Fred Y.

  33. That’s two on my list, scrapbook 166 Angel’s husband.
    I’m sure I did forget some though

      • JD,

        posting this as a reply to you regarding some comments below, where the levels run too deep. this is recollection.
        i think the rough quote was more like, *the clues didn’t exist (he wrote them much later) but most of the places the clues refer to did.*

        did exist when he was a kid. not when he wrote the poem.

        it could be something catastrophic: scarp, landslide (as quake), forest fire scar, or similar. YS area has had both earthquakes and fires since he was a kid.

        but you know all that.

  34. I do not want to sound insensitive but I have to comment because I believe an element has been overlooked regarding this post. Unless I’m mistaken, I don’t believe that Mr. Fenn’s book, TTOTC, can be found as an e-book or an audiobook. If this is the case, I’m not sure how Fred could listen to the book. If I’m mistaken I apologize, but if not then this would align with my belief that HOW one sees is critical to the solve.

    • Bonnie – And:

      That sign in Forrest’s gallery that said, “Please touch.” Braille is read by touching raised dots.

      Max Brooks, author of “World War Z”, presented at Wood River High School, hosted by the Community Library, last night. His mother, Anne Bancroft, enlisted the help of the Braille School to help Max overcome his inability to read books. Because of his Dislexia. That worked perfectly. And now Max listens only to EAudioBooks.

      And Max said he will never, ever give up the location of his Super Secret Spot, where he will go during a Zombie attack. Sound familiar?

      • Thanks Dal. Like I said I wasn’t sure whether options existed beyond e-books and audio books, so I appreciate info. Technology is wonderful.

  35. Lisa – you amaze me. You are a walking, talking set of Encyclopedias. You could fill a Library with your vast knowledge. Did you ever see the movie, The Book of Eli? You remind me of Denzel Washington’s character, Eli. What a great movie that was! And as you know, he WAS blind…….

    • http://www.americana – No! I haven’t seen “World War Z” either. Not really into the post-Apocolyptic thing. But I love Denzel and Gary, so will do. And, yes, I love to read. It sparks my imagination like nothing else.

      Wow. The character, Eli, was blind. Now I gotta go see who Eli is in the Bible…

      • wwwamericana – Look! There’s a Shiloh and a forwards-backwards WORD!:

        Eli was, according to the Books of Samuel, a High Priest of Shiloh. He delivers God’s message to Hannah and Elkanah, a childless couple, that they will become parents of a son.

        My favorite palindrome is still RADAR. Like the guy on “MASH”.

  36. You know “what If” someone cold read to Fred all the threads and comments here on hoD, I believe he could determine possible clue solves if he has a good memory. I know I have uput out many hints to my solve area and so have others. Not to mention all the discussions/ debates in detail of all the poem clues. “What if” Fred could understand Forrest and his life other then the chase. “What if” Fred has learned some western US geography and someone could relate maps of the four states and Rocky Mountain areas in them, along with Parks, waterways, hot springs etc….
    Could he have a chance of determining wwwh and the rest of the clues since they are straight forward?
    Why not with all this help.
    I know it’s a lot to take in for Fred but he can record all the key information he comes across and that someone/helper can discribe places on a detailed map. Then if he thinks he has many of the clues solved, do a botg with the helper so he can discribe his journey and maybe even help in locating that mysterious blaze.

    Fred, I say go for the gusto and and try your best. Who knows you just might figure out the “what if’s”.

    Good luck Fred,

    • Bur – You wrote:

      “Could he have a chance of determining wwwh and the rest of the clues since they are straight forward?”

      That was “straight forward”. Is that a double entendre also? Just read Tom Brokaw’s ‘forward” (noun) in the 2010 edition of “Flywater” again. A summary could be Forrest’s definition of Church. Some key words include;

      Go in peace.

      Is “Flywater” one of Forrest’s books with clues that are “straight forward”?

      Dal – Since Forrest wrote a story about “Flywater” in 2008 in the West Yellowstone News, must he have used the 1994 edition, that came out the same year as, “A River Runs Through It”? Do you know if he owns the 2010 edition with the Tom Brokaw forward?

      It is hard to believe that Grant McClintock gave up fly fishing for the entire time he was doing the awesome photography for that edition. But studying the complexities of photography myself, I get that.

  37. Well, does a man who is only ‘partially’ blind stand a fighting chance? I’ve recently acquired one of nature’s gifts specially reserved for the long-of-tooth known as macular degeneration. Hoary as I may now be, I still love to travel. The Chase has gotten me out in the Rockies many times over the past several years. But when I look at a map these days, I’m learning I have to squint my eyes to have a hare’s chance of discerning what’s going on, especially when it’s on a screen, boy, don’t even get me started. But truth be told, deciphering cartography was never my forte even when my vision was all that. I used to hop in my car on a whim and just ride East (the only way ‘to’ go, as I grew up in Carmel — beautiful little town just north of LA — Clint Eastwood used to be our mayor) following the beating of my heart and my own intuition. Sometimes when cash was short, or life wanted me to make a new friend, I would just jump a ride with a kind stranger for a case of beer or a shared pack of smokes. But times were different back then. These days, intuition alone doesn’t quite get me there. I’m thinking I may finally need to start studying up on how to read maps, and maybe even buy a good pair of reading spectacles to boot — perhaps I’ll invest in a pair to perch on my triangle of a nose for the added benefit of appearing like I know something, instead of revealing the glaring weakness of my being half-blind. Aging truly is not for the faint of heart. But hey, who says you can’t teach an old dog new tricks?!

    – Old Dog

  38. Odic Force.

    Believers in Odic force said that it is visible in total darkness.

    • Hello Cal. Odic Force is interesting. If one looks as a person in daylight and just looks in a blank stare, one can sometimes see the aura of the person, too.

  39. IMO – For him to say that “I know where the chest is hidden, but if I were blind even I couldn’t go to that spot” must mean that he could not do so alone safely & confidently—After all, he is the author of the poem so going to the chest with someone helping him is definitely possible considering that Fenn himself would be deciphering the 9 clues for his helper/telling his helper exactly where to go, etc.

    I would be shocked to learn that he doesn’t have the exact map coordinates memorized!

    Another masterpiece by FF—we will all be interpreting this thing to death.

    For me, his stating “because you can’t look at a map you certainly are at a disadvantage” is what we should be concentrating on in our interpretation. Disadvantage does not attach impossibility, just a reduced chance of success—and in this case, since we already know completing TTOTC is difficult but not impossible, a further unfavorable circumstance/condition that compounds the difficulty is unfortunate. As this is the case, FF has chosen to emphasize the importance of a map.

    Time to throw out my “Forrest Get’s Mail Pictograph Solve” and break out some maps…

    • Bowmarc, the way I see it is that after 9 years and hundreds of thousands if not millions of emails received he decided to choose this one to send to Dal. But hey, nothing to see here (pun not intended) lol… By the way, noticed the double entendre by Fred?

      • OZ10 – I did!

        Here (or Hear), I will put each meaning in a sentence for you, Dal and Forrest:

        Diggin Gypsy and I (or Eye) have Shadows that “look alike”.

        Diggin Gypsy and I both “look alike” for the bronze chest, in the same general search area.

        Hoping y’all get “IT”; my jest and the bronze chest.

        Hey! Suzanne Somers and William Sommers have almost the same last name!


        • Right Lisa, they ‘look alike’ but from who’s perspective? Forrest does this in his writings all the time and either Fred is pointing it out or something else is happening there. 🙂

          I am pretty suspicious of their use of those words…

          • OZ10 – Oh, yes,…I think that Fred is pointing “IT” out, all right! And I gave you my “something else” theory.


        • Hello Lisa. This may be a possibility. One of Ray Charles’ songs is “Georgia”.

          • In TFTW, Chapter 10, Mr. Fenn mentioned he took the train from West Yellowstone to Georgia, and there he bought “The Bullet” and drove it to Temple, Texas. Later mentioned it was gone when he returned home after nearly a year in the military. In a different scrapbook, Mr. Fenn mentioned finding the sibling to “The Bullet,” which is also found in OUAW.

          • pdenver – Had to run to dinner with a friend. Thanks for posting the “Georgia” song reference. My post was going to say the following, hoping searchers would make that connection:

            What state was the Rooster, John Wayne, from?

            And I think Forrest was diggin’ me for my pose, looking up toward my Pioneer Cabin Trail, in that selfie I took for my Avatar pic. Since I am wearing sunglasses.
            But maybe I just suffer from Confirmation Bias?

            Still giggling.

            What? You didn’t think I would get your inside joke, Forrest? Really??

            I will See your double entendre and Raise you the Symbol for the Medici Crest. Three balls in the air above, Three Balls in the air below.

            Sort of looks like those Braile dots, right?

            What did those three dots signify again in punctuation? You are such a Card.

            Love, The Joker

          • pdenver – Right. Flying blind. Sound only:

            Dot Dot Dash Dot:

            Three Dots and a Dash—what the heck does that mean? It’s a Don the Beachcomber drink from the 1940s. … The name refers to Morse code: Three dots and a dash is Morse code for the letter V, and that was used to symbolize victory in World War II.

            Victory will be mine!


          • Hello Lisa. You are probably correct. When I was going through the Media Coverage page on Dal’s, I came across an interview with Mr. Fenn and Dal on the Richard Eeds show which was broadcast on Sept. 14 and Mr. Eeds played the same Ray Charles song for Mr. Fenn which this “Forrest Gets Mail” made me think of that interview.

    • Oldrich farsky, mountain vista, oil on canvas is the map. Stanzas 2-4, 1-8 taught by one.
      IIts the first clue that you must nail down.
      Clues within clues.
      Learning this gets you half way there. Learning how to use this map is still shy the other half. Its the but where things get convoluted. Tarry scant is allusive and the marvel gaze is too cool.

      …i imagine

  40. Dear Forrest,

    If you had received a book with the exact same stories, poem, and all the other contents in a book of memoirs by an author, John Doe, would your sixteen year old self – in the mid 1940’s – be able to / have the same possibility, to solve John Doe’s treasure hunt as we have today?

    • Hi Seeker, are you hoping to narrow down which clues didn’t exist when he was a kid?

      • Oz,
        Not, narrowing down which clue or clues places didn’t…

        I take the ATF about some clues “reference” with a grain of salt.
        ~In part: “The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did…”

        We know the clues were created after fenn was diagnosed with cancer [ 1958ish ]. However, this doesn’t say that all clues ‘have to be places.’ It say that “most of the places the clues refer to did”…right?

        My question relates to the idea that the poem could have been solved “IF” it was written before 1958, by a hypothetical author and different time. I just choice the age of 16 as; most 16 year olds start driving and can actually go on a hunt, even it they live a good distance from the now known search areas, line of thinking.

        Now we could debate that a single clue, possibly the blaze for example; was created or made to be, a pointer or marker at the time of the act of hiding the chest – {the poem now was complete ( completed ? ) } -line of thinking…
        But that doesn’t mean it [ whatever the blaze ‘object’ / ‘place of the object’ actually is ] wasn’t there prior. So in this scenario the blaze can still be an ‘object’ during any time, but not a clue or a clue’s place… yet.

        A poor example; the blaze is a large rock, stone, boulder, pick your poison… if fenn or author JD, utilized it as a pointer / marker, lets say marked it with ff or jd or an arrow pointing somewhere… it now is a clue, but it was there long before it became a clue…

        I have also pondered the thought that Russel or Meek might have the same chance at solving the poem “IF” they had the same information presented to them, as today’s readers of TTOTC. So my hypothetical scenario is simple asking, if fenn himself, somewhere [ age 16 ] in his past could have solved the clues, with the same info he presented to us, if ‘he’ read the same from another author… at age 16.

        *Fenn stated he was thinking “down the road” when he created the clues and wrote the poem… I’m curious If those clues could have been created during an earlier time .. say 100 years ago with the same intended affect / outcome.*

        Fenn also stated; “I could have written the poem before I hid the treasure chest, but I didn’t.”
        That sound like the poem could have been written in any time period during fenn’s life time, and possibly before his time… and that is why my question used a *hypothetical author.*

        So I’m kinda looking for verification / clarification of those comment and/or Q&A’s.

        • Seeker – Another time. Deaf, not Blind.

          In the twilight of his life, Sharp was asked by a reporter,
          “Of all the things you’ve seen and all the things you’ve done,
          what is it that you regret most?”

          The deaf artist slowly replied,
          “I never heard the beat of the drum and the whoop of the dance.”

          Page 12

          A Biography of Joseph Henry Sharp by Forrest Fenn

          • Hello Lisa. I don’t recall where it’s located, but I recently saw/heard an audio/video (can’t remember which) where Mr. Fenn states the line, “I never heard the beat of the drum and the whoop of the dance,” were in fact his own words and not Mr. Sharp’s.

          • pdenver – Please link the quote here, somebody. That would be Forrest’s 15% Fiction Rules thing, if that’s true.

            Interlibrary book loans are great. That is a beautiful book, Forrest. Love the dedication to Peggy. And your signature is in this copy.

            I would know that signature anywhere. And I would recognize your doodle anywhere.

            The other three treasure books are on the way from Albuquerque. Why buy the Bessie, when you can read the books for free? My library friend is very happy. Looking forward to our fly fishing trip together.

        • Seeker, that will be interesting to find out. He said ‘the clues didn’t exist but most of the places did’ and then he said ‘if you knew the geographic location of each clue it will be a map to the treasure’. Taking that into consideration I speculate his answer will be positive.

          It is all about the first few clues and the places those clues refer to. If they always existed, say 1958, then it is possible to solve the poem and find the treasure. He said: If the person reads the poem over and over and are able to decipher the first few clues in the poem, they can find the treasure chest. It may not be easy, but it certainly isn’t impossible.

          If he were to say no, the poem will not take us to the treasure in 1958 then we could argue that at least one of the first 2 or 4 clues refer to a place/location that was not known back then. The place itself may have always existed, but the manner in which the clue identify it was not. Thinking hundreds of years down the road he used long lasting identifiers.

          So, 60 years ago nobody could give us directions to anywhere using a Vietnam War Memorial or an Apple store as landmarks because they did not exist, but if today we were leaving a map to a treasure to our future grand-kids, we will more likely use the Vietnam Memorial over the Apple store for longevity. Not saying he used man-made landmarks, just an example.

          • OZ10;

            You quote Forrest : “The clues didn’t exist but most of the places did” and then he said “If you knew the geographic location of each clue it will be a map to the treasure”.

            Add to these two quotes the fact that Forrest supposedly said that the treasure is not associated with a structure, and we have ourselves a conundrum.

            “…Most of the places did” – implying that at least one place did not exist when Forrest first wrote the poem, but that it exists today, and yet it is not a man made structure – HUMMM??? Boggles the mind – JDA

          • To try to answer my own question – How about a road? A particular road (as we know it today) may not have existed when Forrest wrote the poem, but it does today. Is a road a man made structure? – Man Made, yes – a “Structure” – maybe not.

            If there was a “Trail” that Forrest once traveled, that today is a “road” – this might work. HUMMM??? JDA

          • Questioning my own idea – Is a road a “place” – probably not. So so much for that idea. If there is a defined parking area at the end of that road, that did not exist when the poem was written, but that does now – will that work? “The end is ever drawing nigh…” Maybe this parking area at the “end” of the road – might work – Just “ThiMking” – JDA

          • JDA, if we define a man made structure as something created by humans for their use or enjoyment then lots of things are man made structures. Even a hiking trail qualifies as a man made structure, also roads, parking lots, campgrounds, picnic areas, rest areas, lookout spots, etc.

            The comment was: ‘the treasure is not associated with a structure’ so I don’t know exactly what that means other than a guide not to dig up out-houses or graveyards. Maybe I’m wrong…

          • oz10;

            Your definition of man made structure: “something created by humans for their use or enjoyment” seems pretty broad to me. Under this definition a picture or a painting could be considered a “man made structure” Even a story or a poem could be considered a “man made structure.” I doubt that Forrest meant for these kinds of things to be considered. JMO – JDA

          • Oz ~ ‘If he were to say no, the poem will not take us to the treasure in 1958 then we could argue that at least one of the first 2 or 4 clues refer to a place/location that was not known back then.”

            I’m not sure that might be accurate to assume.
            IF fenn had to do something… example; created a marker – blaze… on an object that did exist, doesn’t that object have its own place?

            The more direct question would be; did fenn have to do anything in the field for the poem’s clues to be “complete”?

            For example: IF the blaze is the ‘last clue’ and GE can’t help with the last clue… LOL… yet GE “and / or” a good map are considered equal as a tool [either – and / or]. Then the last clue might not be something of a place but rather something added to a place.
            Does that make sense?

            This is the reason I keep saying; we’re not looking for a chest, we are looking for a blaze. I’d bet my last nickle folks have been very near or at the blaze and never knew what it s or for.
            LOL, in retrospect I guess my question should have asked; if all the same info was available to forrest, could be discover the blaze when he was 16?

          • Seeker, I don’t know about the blaze not being of those places that didn’t exist because if you can figure it out, the distance to the chest will be obvious, it is a physical thing and something you can look at, and it is not feasible to remove it. So like you said, even if he created markings on a stone (to complete) the poem, that stone must ‘stand out’ or whatever that blaze is.

            One question raises another, if we only need a few of the first few clues to be close, does that include the blaze? If the blaze is not one of the ‘first few clues’ he mentioned in that video, but we could still find the treasure with some difficulty, how much does the blaze stands out??

            The issue is that we have the second and third stanza with the meat and most of the clues just before the blaze is mentioned, so when he said ‘the first few clues’ don’t seem to include the blaze. Unless of course, the third stanza is actually describing the blaze then it makes sense. Just rambling…

          • Bowmarc,
            Of course all the places excised when Forrest was a kid, but two had changes to them and those changes now make Fenn’s poem work like a map. If no changes there might have been only been seven clues in the poem and harder to figure out IMO.

            Good luck,

          • @ Bur = As I understand your assertions, it is because two of the places that existed when FF was a kid have changed that you feel that the ATF referenced is valid AND that these two changes were what FF needed to make his poem work like a map.

            Does this ATF seem to invalidate both of your assertions as I understand them above: “The spot where I hid the treasure was in my mind from the time I first started thinking about the chase. I was going to make it work no matter what.”

        • @ Seeker – Logically, it only takes 1 place to not have existed when FF was a kid to make the referenced ATF valid. Based on that logic, then, the question you should be asking is what is the place referenced by the poem that could not have existed when he was a kid but does now because of TTOTC…

          • Good morning JDA. I believe Seeker phrased it as at least one whereas I was very specific and said only one. See a distinction there?

          • Yes Bowmarc, It takes only 1 place but I see what Seeker is saying (I think). It’s almost like Fenn is saying a place was created between when he was a kid and now.

            This doesn’t seem right to me. Maybe the place was created in Fenns mind like HOB and will never be labeled on a map as “Brown” which fits my theory about the clues.
            But the place and all the places in reality existed for millions of years unless it was manmade or a natural event like Quake Lake or something similar.
            I think Fenn should have worded it differently.

          • @ Jake – Yes, IMO only one place did not exist before FF created TTOTC, but does now because of TTOTC. Kind of a gray area, since FF is a man and crafted TTOTC, but the one place that didn’t exist before TTOTC that does now because of TTOTC is a puzzling conundrum of a metaphor that is indeed difficult but not impossible to understand.

          • Well, I don’t think TTOTC is a place but…
            WWWH is a place
            Canyon is a place
            NF,BTFTW could be a place or distance or action
            HOB is at a place
            Place for the meek
            TEIEDN nigh=near a place
            Creek is a place
            Heavy loads is at a place
            Water high is at a place
            Blaze is at a place
            Just how I see it.

          • @ Jake = I don’t think TTOTC is a place either. Now that you have a list of places, which ones do you think you can reasonably eliminate because they do references a place/places that existed when FF was a kid? IMO, canyon and creek are two such examples from your list since I think it would be highly unlikely that FF created either of those things (look at that guy over there digging that huge canyon or redirecting the flow of such-and-such waterway to make that creek). Once you have subtracted all such places from your list, scrutinize your list and try to find something that FF could have created, hence is a place that did not exist when he was a kid but does exist now because of his TTOTC.

          • As I said before, I think that the END place is new, as is the final Blaze – JDA

          • Bowmark;

            What difference does it make to you? I am sure that there was “an” end to my road – there had to be since it could not go on forever. Today there is a “designated” parking area that probably did not exist when the poem was first written, or when Forrest was a boy – Today there is, so it matches the poem more precisely – JDA

          • @ JDA = I was talking about THE END, as I thought you were, but now we are on a hypothetical roadway that has changed since FF was a kid rather than THE END.

            We all take, and sometimes mean, different things in our TTOTC comments and endeavors. My question to you still remains, with clarification, what if THE END is both new and old?

            It makes no difference to me, just conversing about the topic at hand like everyone else and is something for you (and all readers of this post) to ponder.

          • The ‘conventional wisdom’ suggestion (for a place that didn’t exist when ff was a kid) has long been Quake Lake, as the Hebgen Earthquake that created it happened in 1959.

            Flaming Gorge Reservoir qualifies, but fails the “not-related-to-any-dam” test (unless that only applies to WWWH – then the reservoir might be “water high” from the downstream side of the dam, where the Green River heads into Red Canyon).


          • I’m just trying to figure out what is in Fenns mind and whatever that is, it becomes reality.
            The problem goes back to whatever the clues are, they should still be at a place so I don’t put much weight on his statement unless I just use imagination and that’s what I’m doing here.

          • Bowmark;

            I too am talking about THE END – The designated parking area at THE END of the road. Not sure how much clearer I can make it – JDA

          • Bowmark;

            Maybe you should tell us what YOU mean by “THE END”. Are you talking about the end of the book or the end of the poem? You have to be a little cleares if we are to understand way you mean by THE END – Thanks in advance – JDA

          • @ JDA = So the parking spot at the end of your road has Indulgence sitting right there for you to pick it up and drive away with? Why haven’t you done so already then rather than so many trips out into the countryside? (Please imagine a Smiley emoji here since they never seem to work when I insert them).

            THE END is the spot where Indulgence has been hidden by FF and it is that end to which I am referring and asking “What if THE END is both new and old” and will add to that simultaneously? Again, something for everyone to ponder and quite possibly come to some type of logical conclusion as to why only 1 place that didn’t exist when FF was a kid is needed to make the referenced ATF valid because TTOTC has an important ingredient that creates a place that didn’t exist when FF was a kid.

          • Bowmark;

            Thanks for your explanation. My “The End” comes from the line in the poem that reads – “The End is ever drawing nigh.” in the middle if the third stanza. There is still a LOT of poem left to unravel.

            I park at this “END” place, a designated parking area. Forrest says that he walked “less than a few miles” from where he parked to where Indulgence is secreted.

            For me – From the parking lot I have to follow A ” no paddle up your creek, creek – to a heavy load and water high place – I then find my blaze – a tarry scant and marvel gaze place then figure out stanza #5 and six before I can find Indulgence.

            Yes, it is difficult to express how we each interpret the poem. Your THE END place is where Indulgence rests. MY THE END place is much farther up the poem.

            I know what my END PLACE is, I am looking for your END PLACE, as are we all. Good luck in finding your END PLACE – JDA

          • Hi JDA – Didn’t Forrest say that if you are walking long distances in search of the treasure that you are walking too far? At almost age 80, my belief is that Forrest didn’t travel far. He also knew that this Chase would generate interest among people of many different age groups so more than likely he didn’t try to push the extremes in getting to a place where few would be able to reach it. You’re about 6 years younger than Forrest was when he hid the chest so it might be worth reconsidering how far from the sedan you have to travel.

            Just some observations and hope you are well.

    • Yo Seeker… not sure what you could get out of that particular question that may narrow anything down other than perhaps a nudge as to what place/places did not exist as the poem describes presently. Not sure Fenn would be that bold to answer that one in a clear, understandable way.

      • I tried to explain in a post to OZ above.
        As I said there; I should have add, could fenn find the blaze at age almost 16…?

        Sure the “object” {blaze object} may have a place it sits at, but was it created only for and by fenn when he followed the clues and hid the chest? Review Becky’s Q&A… Can the blaze be pre-determined by the poem or can it only be determined at the search area?
        LOL I’ll give ya 30 minutes to think about it.

        • Well… I’ve thought about that for well past the 30 minutes… including the days way before this thread hatched and I could reel off a bunch of scenarios in a snap. One scenario comes to mind right off that we’ve touched on in the past. It falls in line with the ole * I’m not ready to say* scenario. Just the idea that Fenn answered Becky’s Q in that fashion and submitted it is kinda like a small whiff of pepper spray really. I think the *blaze* is gonna be apparent *IF* a searcher get to the precise spot following the clues.

  41. “Come on people”, LOOK…, where is the ( ? ) in Fred’s question? He was simply asking Forrest about if his blindness would hurt his chances of solving the POEM. He didn’t ask about being able to get to the SPOT…, and after his question is where he said he has someone that could take him. PS. Talk about a “look alike” how about “Kris” and the other “Chris”, Chris L. the suspicious one in the other story. Read Kris’s comment above, both in a row. in one he wrote… i am leaglly blind ( legally misspell) and did not write (in the) right eye…, along with he also believes he knows the spot but again Fred never say he new the spot, he wrote visually impared twice ( impaired spelled wrong ) but only wrote diff and not difficulty. Is that weird or suspicious?

    • lisa c. – “Fred” wrote “I can not see…”:

      Is cannot one word or two words?

      Both cannot and can not are acceptable spellings, but the first is much more usual. You would use can not when the ‘not’ forms part of another construction such as ‘not only’.

      Is that another double entendre?

      I can not see the Forrest through the ‘Fred’ trees.

      I can not,…See? (like, maybe ‘I kid you not’?)

      If “Fred” wrote, ‘can’t’, the missing letters represented by that apostrophe banana would be ‘no’.
      So, is Forrest answering ‘No’ in the negative for the rest of that sentence???

        • lisa c. – That was:

          As I (Eye?) have gone alone in there,
          And with my ‘treasures bold’.

          “River Bathing is Best”. Unless there is a huge Grizz lurking.


        • lisa c. – And what say you, Captain Kidd? How many entendres is that, anyway?

          Dreaming of our Silent Night out Baker’s Hole with Shiloh.

          More Giggles.

    • lisa c. – You brought up the misspellings of “impared” and the abreviation “diff”:

      No “i” or ‘Eye’ (blind) in the first and maybe d’EyeFF as ‘Dee Eye Ef Ef’ for that “diff”. Do Eye have to spell “IT” out for them,.aloud, Forrest?

      All IMO. What’s the ‘diff’, anyway, right???

      Channeling William Sommers.

      Love, The Joker, aka Poor Yorik

      • Lisa, you are right, it is in the “EYE” of the beholder. I am leaving this weekend to retrieve his chest@.” It is time, I SEE what the rest DO NOT. You are very smart…but, you to can not see within, and no we do not “look alike.” I am Tom C., Thomas C., Doubting Thomas. I’ve been here for along time using my senses, looking at what you all write, hearing what you all say, filling you all out, smelling you all out to know the ones that could read f. I’m not a smart guy but I do not have to be to solve this thing, all is needed is the right area and an imagination, you all were my guided tour thru f’s mind. It’s time to taste victory. The first clue is what has everyone halted, I can say now that because no one has time to bet me to it but it’s not water at all, not warm water, cold water, hot water nothing like that. Jake’s thinking like that and Seeker is frustrated over “it” , oh it’s not the key word to find the beginning, it could be anything, so that will not help you! Only if your at the starting point, you will see “it” because it’s right in front of you, that is when “it” comes into play because the rest of the clues are on “it”. I will give you one thing , the key word is not used as a clue. Sorry and think you.

        • lisa c – If you say you are “not a smart guy”, why, pray tell, are you using a female handle that so closely mimics mine? Is there some purpose in doing that?

      • Lisa cesari, wow.
        I wonder is it your intention to muddy the waters?
        Everytime a thought starts to develop theres a random bouncing ball spewing knowledge of varying relevancy in which that thought escapes.
        Forgive me dal if im out of line in asking, can we please stay on topic and place comments in the appropriate place?
        I dont know why you feel the necessity to reply to EVERYTHING.
        i feel exhausted from catching up on this post.

      • Oz10 and lisa c. – That Kris misspelling as “leaglly”:

        Could it be?:

        No ‘A’, put “IT” in, ‘GAL’!

        Or, aloud, NOAH?

        In my solve, that works for Boat Mountain, which resembles a boat on my topo map, but is also named, so blind “Fred” could find where to “put in below the home of Brown”. IMO.

  42. I could be wrong… its late and im tired but I think Forrest said he made up that quote about the beat of the drum in that book… and nobody noticed…

  43. When Mr. fenn said that searchers got the first two clues correct, and went/walked past the other seven, there must be some kind of disconnect between the second and third clue. Maybe some kind of distraction?

    • James,
      If you believe the third clue is “not far but too far to walk” that’s a distance clue you have to predetermine to me, no distraction on that clue. Now pibthoB there is a few distractions that can gain your attention in that area especially for a first time searcher there or anyone else for that matter. Again I think those searchers had another “put in” place down further on, and followed other solves finds that fit the remainder of clues iMO.

      Good luck,

  44. here are your “look alike” , note; in one comment Kris writes , i am leaglly blind, misspelled and missing words. His next comment repeats but correct , i to am legally blind, her is his comment from above , look thru and find other things; kris on April 28, 2019 at 5:43 pm said:
    i totally understand where you are coming from.!
    i am leaglly blind right eye and left eye is following same path.
    but as both of us know to use our other sences to guide us.
    i to believe i know the spot…
    i wish you all the luck in this world…to get thru life. and dont let
    your disability get in the way of living life…to what you can…
    if you really believe you have the treasure spot maybe some
    one can help you achieve it!

    Reply ↓
    kris on April 28, 2019 at 5:48 pm said:
    Well Fred, because you can’t look at a map you certainly are at a disadvantage. I know where the treasure is hidden, but if I were blind even I couldn’t go to that spot. Sorry. Thanks for listening to my book. f

    dear mr fenn …dont under estimate us visually impared people
    i to am legally blind visually impared. my fiance of 12 yrs has taken me thru many hand guided wood walking trails…
    i have diff…doing so…but im determined to find your chest@! never let health get in your way.! “SEE” you in the funny papers!

    • lisa c. – Thank you, Thomas C., for that careful explanation. After reading, I think the most important words are, “funny papers”, at the end. Because Forrest called those comic books he was given in West Yellowstone, “funny books”, and I am very suspicious of those words. Because my backwards bike S blaze at Baker’s Hole looks just like the Red one on Superman’s chest. And I have already explained how Montana stream laws make the island in the middle part of the Public Domain. I mean that, “leaglly”, “Kris”. No “Specialized” knowledge, either, Forrest.

      Did anyone see the latest “Avengers” series movie with Gwyneth Paltrow and Robert Downey Jr.? What was that Superheroes group they “leaglly” belong to?

      Just a theory. IMO.

      • lisa c. – I was making a Marvel Comics Universe reference to Thor and the Asgardians of the Galaxy.
        The Avengers logo is a great big ‘A’.

        And Captain Marvel is a former Airforce pilot ‘Gal’.

        While the name “Asgardians of the Galaxy” in “Avengers: Endgame” mainly served as a fun pun — and probably also to set up Thor as a full on Guardian in “Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3” — in the comics it’s actually an existing superhero team, and the reference could be hinting at a fun new expansion of the Guardians.

  45. Bowmarc,

    Got to busy up thread to figure out reply buttons.
    You said:

    “Does this ATF seem to invalidate both of your assertions as I understand them above: “The spot where I hid the treasure was in my mind from the time I first started thinking about the chase. I was going to make it work no matter what.”

    Well my “assertions” ,as you say, are facts of my area of search. Two places have changed for two of my poem clue solves since Fenn was a “kid”. So how would what I said “invalidate” that ATF comment of Forrest?
    I did not say those changes happened after he first thought of this spot to hide the treasure. Most likely I’m not understanding you.

    My 7 clues part was in jest, because Forrest would have made the poem clues work for the final solve “no matter what”, as he stated.

    Good luck in understanding all your questions you are projecting.
    Thanks for the reply.

  46. Hmm…a blind person cannot be guided to that spot.!!!
    Mr. Fenn, you just threw a wrench into my thought process of solving your poem. I feel exactly like Ferd, being here in India without your books, hmm…

    • Ha, finally got it.
      If I was blind, I couldn’t get to the chest either.


    I feel like even if the only thing I ever posted on here was the above link, I’d be one of the most helpful posters on the site from an overall POV.

    Subjective/IMO. Don’t @ me (look it up if > 35 and/or not on social media).

  48. TTOTC, “Jump-Starting The Learning Curve,” pages 23-24:

    “She said to me, with that sideways-looking face, ‘Forrest, were you asleep?’ I said ‘No, Miss Ford, I was awake.’ ‘Well, your eyes were closed,’ she said. ‘No, Miss Ford, my eyes were open; it was just my eyelids that were closed.’ I said that to her as gently as I could and quickly crossed my legs.”

      • Hello Sandy. Very well could be. I think by looking into profile, there’s the possibility of silhouette, shadow, ghost, and boundary to name a few, which could easily bring us back to which you’ve mentioned. I’m reminded of the area between Cody and the east entrance to Yellowstone for which they’re dated.

      • I was thinking “squint”. No idea how this might identify a hint, other than that it might be demonstrating a way (Forrest’s way?) to say the same thing using different words.
        Another example might be that cup covering the girl’s face in the bookstore. A coffee cup might be a mug, and a mug could be a face.
        Just thoughts, as I’m trying to figure out how some of those head-scratchers in TTOTC could exist if they were not put there specifically to aid searchers.

        • Hello kate. Mug could certainly be a face. Could the “mug” belong to an outlaw and a possible hideout? It’s what comes to mind for me when using the word “mug”. I guess there’s always stealing from a “bank”.

  49. “…just have an excuse to smell the waters you mention and feel the grasses and rocks under my feet.”

    Pdenver, when did ff talked about this things, or where does it come from? ‘the smell of the waters’

    • Hello Oz10. Besides what’s mentioned from above, I don’t know. To me, if one can smell the waters, it would seem it would have the smell of sulphur or some other compounds to make it do so.

      • Thanks pd. I only asked you because I know you retain lots of this little aberrations close by. Fred says ‘the smell of the waters you mention’, first I thought about that video where he mentions the smell of pinion nuts or something like that but I don’t think that he says anything about the smell of the waters. There is the one about the bad smell of brown gravy and the bad smell of pulling the feathers off meadowlarks after putting them in hot water. All we know is that Fred had only the book and the poem read to him by the computer.

        • Hello Oz10. With Fred not being able to see, he would use his other senses in nature, which become his eyes so to speak. The brown gravy mentioned in the book would have been “burnt,” and, to me, the meadowlarks would have been placed in “boiling water” to pull the feathers off. I would imagine it wouldn’t have the most pleasant smell to it. The nose knows what the eyes cannot see sometimes. If someone read the following to you with your eyes closed, by the smell, could you not see? TFTW, “Treasures Galore,” page 198:

          The mountains are not sleeping; they are alive with the healing smells of pine needles and pinon pollen and juniper berries. The shades of fall are yellow with blooming chamisa shrubbery, and the golden glow of rabbit brush can be intoxicating.”

          Here is the link to the video for which you spoke:

        • Hi OZ10;

          All I can find is: “…Smell the sunshine.” – “Smell the wonderful smells of pine needles” – and “Smell of nature”

          Lots, and lots of “water” references to WWWH – but none with smell associated with it. JDA

          • OZ10 – From the preface of TFTW:

            “The river distance was about 10 miles and the best fishing was in the bends where the water turned greenish deep and beautiful.”

            I can smell “IT” from here.

        • OZ10 – When slow, lazy rivers meander through a riparian area, often marshes with cattails form. Those areas have a distinct odor. A fly fisherman like Forrest would be familiar with that smell. And it appears William Faulkner was, also:

          “I could smell the curves of the river beyond the dusk and I saw the last light supine and tranquil upon tideflats like pieces of broken mirror, then beyond them lights began in the pale clear air, trembling a little like butterflies hovering a long way off.”

          – William Faulkner, The Sound and the Fury

  50. Fred,

    How’s it going? I doubt you’re willing to give up on yourself. Forrest doesn’t need a map since he already knows the answers to the clues. I’m guessing a visual cue is needed at some point to navigate to the treasure. If you need someone to ride along and describe the view in vivid detail, i’ll be happy to assist.

    Oh, and can you sing? I’ve been walking down the backroads, stepping through my memory…. Nashville? Rockies? eh?

  51. I also doubt Fred would give up. If he is like me, when faced with a disability/disadvantage it only serves to make one’s resolve stronger. Of course, like everyone else, I hope to give Fred the boot by finding it myself first. Nothing against his disability, but ‘Hey’ – when the door opens you’ve gotta go out before the mosquitos get in……

    Don’t give up Fred. I’ll be looking for you out there…… behind me.

      • Sorry, Fred. I’ll have to leave you behind too and sing to my own tune or I’ll never get anywhere.

        ….stood at the door of my old school, is that me looking back at me.

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