Home of Brown…

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This is for a discussion about “the home of Brown” in Forrest’s poem.

Got an HOB that didn’t work out…or maybe you need an HOB for a certain area…or perhaps you have an idea that needs some fleshing out..

This is the place to discuss all things HOB…

dal…

308 thoughts on “Home of Brown…

  1. Home of Brown !!! I know that there are many that discount Yellowstone being a viable location for the chest …. however we do know for a fact that Forest spent the majority of his (3 month summers) up in Yellowstone growing up …. we also know that Forest did in fact return there many times throughout life all the way into 2010 or so ….. that has been shown true from pictures and statements….. We know Forest loved his fly fishing …… loved fishing the Madison river …… The Madison is world renowned for its fly fishing and its (Brown Trout) !!! So many people make reference to actual places named after ranger Brown , the Brown put in etc etc …… I feel it’s quite logical that the Home of Brown would make reference to the Madison river ….. Forest speaks highly of his most fond memories of the Madison and hooking up to a nice Brown Trout …. he also stated in one of his interviews something about being able to ride a bike to where the chest is located ….. now we know Forest used to ride his bike all the time to his bathing hole from West Yellowstone….. and then back …. Forest has never mentioned riding a bike up and around the far northern part of the park near the Jim Brown put in etc ….. or near old ranger Browns place …… I therefore feel it’s more logical and reasonable that the Home of Brown would be on or near the Madison which would be the “Home of the Brown Trout” ….. Forest mentions that there is no man made trail where the chest is at …. However he does not say whether or not he walked a man made trail to get to the general area of the chest …. just some of my thoughts…. I am up in Yellowstone every July and August for the last 30 years now …… not necessarily for chest finding but rather for my relaxation and pure enjoyment of the splendor and wildlife plus some awesome fishing…..

    • Despite all of those who would disagree with you DKM, I too believe that West Yellowstone makes the most sense. I think some tend to make it overly complicated and should keep it simple. If nothing else, the area gives us all a glimpse of what life’s real treasures truly are. Thank you Forrest for opening so many peoples eyes.

      • there is a marker named Brown in the woods the creek is on the other side of the road I must return to it d some day soon it was exciting to find that but I could not put a blaze into play but the heart skipped a beat for sure oh this is to much fun ty Mr Fenn be safe you all.

  2. Here is a funny fact about brown.
    Brown light (like that you see on your monitor) is made from Red and Green (no Blue) so could be thought of as Red Black (noblue) Green. (tea anyone?)

    Funny part is that what you may see as yellow (as in Yellowstone) is the same combination of light. It just depends on what is around it. Look at this image: https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-337dbec9fb0c86ea529d471367ec1f92-c (if it doesn’t load go to https://www.quora.com/Why-is-it-impossible-to-have-a-light-source-shedding-brown-light-since-both-purple-and-brown-are-mixtures-of-wavelengths-and-the-former-is-possible-and-the-latter-isn%E2%80%99t and look down the page)
    The brown square on the top is emitting exactly the same light as the yellow square on the side. Poke a hole in a piece of paper and look at it isolated. No Difference.

    Now, mixing colors is different. Yellow and purple paint mix to make brown paint. (like chamisa and mountain laurel). Hmmmm … now we have two kinds of Brown in Tea with Olga. And “One day she asked me to go to her” (strange wording, that). Made me think I should find the field where he scattered Olga’s ashes, but Forest said about the treasure site: “I was going to make it work no matter what. In my reverie I often find myself stealing away to that place and I will always consider it to be mine alone.f” Olga’s spot wouldn’t be his alone. (I know, don’t start in the middle)

    But, have no doubt, there is something going on with red black brown (other than 205).
    All IMO, of course.

    • yellow and purple… interesting.
      Could very well be a color connection on a cliff (caliph) blazing the way to the end of ff’s rainbow.

      • Smokybaer,

        Forrest wrote this once:
        “Why do the yellow and purple flowers flourish where no one is there to see? The answer is at last obvious to me. No one has to see what is there. The grass sees and the trees and rushing waters of the spring creek also see. What has made me think that I had to see the beauty that is there in order to confirm its existence?”

        Maybe there are those color flowers where Forrest secreted the chest. I’ve seen them in my search area.

        Good luck,
        Bur

    • Purple Mountain in Yellowstone has been discussed. Anyway, might want to check out Jasper. The mineral, Big Red, other f book, you know. Kind of curious all the names for Jasper. Forrest fire rings a bell. Along with rainbow and alligator types. Bighorn area. Might find something interesting in that area.

  3. The Brown Trout was first introduced between 1893 and 1897 I believe into the Madison river of Yellowstone….. now the Fire Hole river warms approximately 30 degrees which promotes insects and facilitates the Brown Trout spawning etc …… begin it where warms waters halt !!!! Fire Hole river and subsequently the Fire Hole bathing spot of FF…. and take it in the canyon down …… the Madison river canyon came down in the 1959 Hebgen quake !!! Not far but too far to walk….. it is quite a long walk from the Fire Hole down to where the Madison river canyon came tumbling down ….. put in below the Home of Brown ….. meaning the Brown Trout…. the Brown Trout on the Madison river !!! There’ll be no paddle up your creek just heavy loads and water high ….. I believe that the water high refers to a favorite fishing hole that is deep which FF often fished at …. fly fishermen on the Madison do not use rafts or boats hence “no paddle” …… also fly fishermen refer to loads as in “the load on the fly line” …… given that FF was a very avid fly fisherman and also a fishing guide and had his favorite holes along the Madison river ….. it seems logical that this would make sense ……

    • When searching brown tout I found documentation that they were first introduced into the Nez Pearce creek in 1890. Not far from FF bathing spot. Theres a parking near the junction of the Firehole rive and Nes pearce creek. A nice place to park and put in. IMO

  4. No place for the meek …… meek can mean someone who does not do what someone else does …. a person that doesn’t go along with what others do …. drawing nigh can mean getting nearer or drawing to the left … the Madison river draws left just near Bakers Hole … which would also be where the Madison river canyon came down in the 1959 Hebgen quake

  5. Home of Brown is the hardest part of the poem to figure out. But I do like the Madison most of all

        • Morning JDA,

          In the spirit of accuracy I provide the following quote; “…..the treasure is not associated with any structure” which he’s reiterated many times.

          Then he kind of confused matters IMO with this Q&A response because two questions were asked but his answer can be interpreted different ways, one of which would appear to support what you said above.

          “Mr. Fenn, when you said not associated with any structure did that mean all 9 clues or just where the chest sits? Thanks, d

          Yes d, it means the treasure is not hidden in or about a structure. Google “structure” for more information. f”

          My interpretation is that his comments apply only to the treasure and not hoB or any other clues for that matter. I suspect you may disagree with me and that’s certainly okay.

          Please take care…..pinatubocharlie

  6. HOB is probably the hardest clue. So what if it’s in there to throw us off? IMO the TC can be found without ever having to use HOB as a clue.

      • Luck Ryder,
        I’m on board with that new thinking. I recently sent Mr. Fenn an email after my last BOTG stating that very premise.

        “There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure” f
        1. Home
        2. of
        3. Brown

        • Here is another supporting quote for HOB not being a clue.

          Carol Off: “Well some of them seem…Some of the clues maybe are things that people would locally know. You say, Begin it where warm water halt and take it in the canyon down. Not fat but too far to walk. But in below the home of Brown. That seems like a couple of clues to me.”

          Fenn: “That sounds like three or four to me.”

          Uhm yeah? it’s three. Just a theory….

          • Jeff;

            Why would you say that “Here is another supporting quote for HOB not being a clue.?” If four things are mentioned 1) WWWsH 2) Canyon Down 3) too far to walk and 4) hoB, and Fenn says: “That sounds like three or four to me.” – Why would this exclude hoB. If only three, why wouldn’t you exclude NFBTFTW since that is not a place, and the other three are? I can’t follow your logic. Can you please explain.

            Seems that identifying hoB is important since it tells you where to exit the canyon. Sure sounds like a clue to me. JMO – JDA

          • P.S. despite this quote, I see only two clues.
            1) BIWWWsH, ATIITCD, NFBTFTW
            2) PIBThoB.

            Forrest said “That sounds like three or four to me.” Note the “Sounds like” -He did NOT say that there were three or four, only that it Sounded like three or four- JMO – JDA

          • Hi JDA,

            All theory to drive new conversation. Based on quotes it’s possible that’s really the point.

            Just got back from week long BOTG. About 5 BOTGs. So reflecting on that and trying to spark new thinking.

            How have you been? Hope all is well. Jeff

          • Hi Jeff – Glad you are back safely. Wish I could go on a week-long BotG. excursion. Sorry you didn’t find Indulgence – Hope you had an enjoyable outing though. All is good on my end – Thanks for askin’ – JDA

          • If Cleveland, NM qualifies as hoB, then you might also consider Mt. Jackson (Browne) near Madison Junction in YNP. (Or Mt. Cleveland near Glacier).

        • Hi Jeff,

          IMO these 3 words are most important in the poem.

          Reporter: In the poem, which you say has nine clues, there are references to water, there’s references to Brown’s house; who is Brown?
          Forrest: There is reference to wood.
          Reporter: But you didn’t answer my question, Who is Brown?
          Forrest: Well, that is for you to find out; If I told you that, you’d go right to the chest. (10:41) 4/21/13 World Report.

          At the same time we know that searchers that solved WWWH and CD couldn’t find the blaze and TC. Forrest said: “Searchers have come within about 200 feet. Some may have solved the first four clues, but I am not certain.”
          So, if you are within 200 feet from TC you already passed the hoB (maybe even without knowing it). It looks like that Forrest never get correct solutions for the hoB from searchers (he is not certain about clue #4 solving).

          • I agree that searchers may have been below home of Brown without knowing it, but FF’s comment doesn’t make it a requirement that they have. And he is not sure they knew what HoB was. They could have have walked through or by this below HoB area and not known the significance of where they were.

          • And most agree that ‘below the hoB’ is a location/ place and also not the last clue, which means that it should be found on Google Earth or a good map.

          • OZ10;

            The question is – “Will you recognize the hoB for what it is once seen on Google Earth or a topo Map?” My guess is “No”. JMO – JDA

          • JDA, I don’t know about that. Why would you even go on BOTG without having solved the poem? When did ff said it was ok to go on a hunch and see if something out there in the woods magically appears to match your guesses? If that is the case then you got the wrong solve. You have to be able to correctly solve, understand and match the clues to the correct places on the map or google earth. Except the last one.

          • OZ 10;

            I agree with you. I guess that my point was that the hoB may NOT be something that most people would recognize as a or “THE” “hoB”. My hoB certainly falls into that category. Unless one has picked up on a couple of hints scattered within TToTC, most people would walk or drive past my hoB and NEVER give it a thought – re it being the hoB. Locals MIGHT know, and a few “Old-timers” and a few people that have studied the area MIGHT know, but then again, might not. Just me Ramblin’ JDA

          • JDA, if only you and other ‘old timers’ like you said will be the only ones that could say “why didn’t I think of that?” but not the average searcher, again you have the incorrect solve. If he’d built the chase only for old timers then he would’ve hint to that important possibility at some point in the last 9 years. The redneck from Texas with 12 kids will have no chance at knowing what you and the other local old timers know about that place, doncha think???

          • What if the H.O.B. is not a “real” place? But one, that with an imagination, can be found.

          • JDA, your comments about TTOTC hints to choose your hoB seem to fly in the face of this ff comment:

            Mr. Fenn,
            You have said to read the poem and read TTOTC to help solve for the 9 clues. We all know there are many options to choose from regarding, Brown, hoB, wwh,and blaze hinted at in the book.
            My question is, “In the book, do you also, in a more subtle way, tell which is the correct answer to one or all of the above?” ~BW

            No I don’t madam, sorry. f

            So, to paraphrase my interpretation, he does not, in even a subtle way, indicate which is the correct solution to Brown, hoB, wwh,and blaze.

            Seems like an important point to me.

            mBG

          • mBG;

            Nowhere in TToTC does Forrest say, “This is what the hoB is.” (Nor any of the other clues) He has indicated that hints are sprinkled in TToTC that will help with the clues. For me, it is a matter or “Reading between the lines.”

            I have posted this quote so many times, most have it memorized: http://reportfromsantafe.com/episodes/view/144/forrest-fenn/

            “There are nine clues in the poem, and the clues are in consecutive order. If you want to find the treasure chest – you have my book there – I’ll tell you how to do it. Read the book just normally … the poem and the rest of the book, and then go back and read the poem 6, 8, 10 times – study every line, every word. Then after you do that, read the book again, slowly, with the idea of looking for clues or hints, that are in the book that will help you follow the clues. You can find the chest with just the clues, but there are hints in the book that will help you with the clues.” f

            These are Forrest’s instructions on how to solve the poem. It is my guide, and IMO, should be yours and all other searchers – JMO – Forrest is NOT going to say “Here is a hint to help solve clue #X, but he has said this:
            In your memoir, The Thrill of the Chase, after the poem, you mention there are subtle clues sprinkled throughout that book. You have said you hadn’t deliberately placed these subtle hints in your book; but have you done so in any of your other writings mentioned in Question two (scrapbooks, vignettes, etc)? Or, even if maybe not purposely sprinkled in those writings of Q2, would you consider some of those to contain subtle hints too, like in The Thrill of the Chase?
            I don’t want to broaden the clues and hints I’ve written about by pointing them out. What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve. – JDA

          • Lol, meBG, JDA is very much aware of that ATF. In fact, I’m pretty sure everyone is, since I beat it into the ground. My interpretation is also, there is no answer given by f for those particular things. Two of which we know are clues. He sure doesn’t come out and give the answer, and it’s not hidden, (to me means no answer given by f).
            Also, seems to support that hoB doesn’t have an answer, (meaning we don’t have the answer to what it looks like, where it is, etc…).
            I think too much time is being wasted on trying to solve clues. If you solve the poem, the clues will solve themselves. It’s the part that solving clues is not the same as solving the poem that searchers don’t get, IMO. They are too tied up in needing to solve clues, which yields a poem solve. Which is wrong, because of the ATF, you posted. But, to each their own, I guess.
            If searchers are okay with a different interpretation of an ATF, then there is nothing to say. Example, JDA shared his wwwh with me in an e-mail. Because I kept throwing this ATF in his face. I won’t go into it, but I had to say that it was very well thought out. Used the poem, and came up with a good reason for his wwwh. As much as I liked the way he came up with it, (and it’s the best, besides mine, that I’ve seen), I couldn’t overall say it was correct because of the ATF. He even used the word subtle to explain some points. But our discussion ended there, because the way he saw it, he was fine, and good with it. So in the end, if he’s good with it, I have no problems with his interpretation being different then mine. Besides, it probably gave him a little confidence when a vet searcher tells him that it is a good wwwh. He wasn’t guessing, used the poem, and didn’t throw some dart at a map. It was well thought out, but if you ask me, because of the ATF, it’s not how f intended for wwwh to be found. In fact meBG, most of the ATF’s can be interpreted multiple ways, the trick is to understand that and not hang your hat on just one interpretation, but to see all.

          • Hi Andy,

            I’m tracking with you 100%. I have studied those quotes dozens of times.

            What am suggesting is intended to be thought provoking. Imagine Mr. Fenn did tell us who Brown is and he said it’s not a clue. Should that take you right to the treasure.meaning suddenly the clues were easier to understand. Try to solve the 9 poem clues without HOB. You can still put in below, but ignore HOB and see if It changes your thinking. You never know, maybe this is the one thing that no one has thought of? Anyways, good luck to you – Jeff

          • This is all academic. But, to elaborate further:
            JDA says “Nowhere in TToTC does Forrest say, “This is what the hoB is.” (Nor any of the other clues) He has indicated that hints are sprinkled in TToTC that will help with the clues. ”
            I don’t get your point. If he did as you suggest, that would not even be subtle, it would be blatantly obvious. He said that he does not even subtly indicate the correct solution to hoB, etc.
            But, I don’t know your solution, so I don’t really know how you are using/getting/applying the hint. I stated my point, so that’s that. Maybe #40 will be the one.
            mBG

          • My belief is geography will play a huge role in identifying the correct HOB and the other end of the line… “no meek”.

          • Hi Smokybaer,
            I’m also 100% agree with your statement that “geography will play a huge role in identifying the correct HOB” (not sure about second part i.e. “and the other end of the line… “no meek”). “Forrest has said over and over to marry the poem to a map, and that the poem IS a map” (citation from JDA post). And maps are main tools of geography.

          • Can I toss a long shot out there….what if WWWH is really Aqua Fria and the home of Brown is Cleveland, NM as in Cleveland Browns

          • Andy,

            One other thought (again, i am trying to spark different/adjusted thinking). What if when you reach NFBTFTW (in this scenario clue #3), there is only one obvious place to PIB (Clue #4), and when you do that it is also obvious that FTINPFTM (Clue #5). At that point (all in theory) you are past HOB in the poem but could be in the correct position to continue forward to the next clue which could be TEIEDN (Clue #6). Just tossing the salad a little here.

            This actually happened to me during a recent BOTG. But, i would have never known this from google earth. It wasn’t until i got there that it became obvious and then it become painfully obvious where you must go and trust me it’s no place for the meek. Unfortunately, this was like theory solution #5 of a week long hunt and not as developed as the other 4 potential solves i had developed for this trip but after returning home and processing all of the BOTGs i now feel strongly about this possibility so wanted to throw it out for anyone else to consider.

            Good luck to you. – Jeff

    • Yup!
      The 1st time I read the poem, my eyes were drawn to the “B” in Brown.
      I’m sure it was done by design to get the most attention out of all the words in the poem. Now I don’t think it’s as important as most do.

      “B”egin is more important to me and “B”ut tells me where to cease.

    • Yes Jake, great point with the capital B. IMO a lot of time has been focused on the capital B and what it means when it might not mean anything at all. Maybe he capitalized it so that we focus on that and not on the fact that HOB is irrelevant.

      Kinda like Scrapbook 201. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a great story but I see so many people concentrating on what Mary said but no one on what FF said.

      • I have spent a few years on HOB, where it is or could be with different beginning spots WWWH and also tried what others are still trying to do now.
        Trying to look for HOB with old maps, new maps, labeled places, hundreds of people with that name in the Rockies, places like Brown Mtn, canyon, lake, river, you name it.

        Some say you need BOTG, GE, history, geology, a flashlight and sandwich, Native American knowledge, brown gravy, brown britches etc…
        I say you need imagination and skip this 3rd clue and move on.
        Go on to the next clue and see what you get.

        I will probably never know what Brown is but as I said before you can figure out where it is by skipping it if you’re in the right area.
        I know not many of you can’t fathom this but thats what makes us different.

        Brown is not what you think it is. Sound familiar?
        IMO

      • Luck Ryder, : “IMO the TC can be found without ever having to use HOB as a clue.
        I agree completely and will also say that PIBTHOB is a trap like a black hole that sucks all suckers in if they try to solve it before WWWH IMO.

        Yes I agree this is the only clue you do not need to find the treasure, but you need the other 8 and I can’t wait for the feedback by the Brownies.
        IMO

        • I don’t know Jake, everything else you wrote on the subject of Brown checks out except this notion of just skipping it, especially when we are supposed to decipher in consecutive order. Cap B or not, just keep it in order I think. No?

          • “What if” home of Brown is considered a home, but is not truly the real home of this Brown.

            Without this clue solve your “put in” place is not so obvious, and you might just put in at the wrong area. Like the searchers that went right by the other seven clues.

            Again, just food for thought.

            Good luck,
            Bur

          • Bur ~ “What if” home of Brown is considered a home, but is not truly the real home of this Brown.’

            Can you elaborate a bit here? I’m not getting what your say about “this brown”

            While it is possible, not unlike – there many WWsH, there could be more than one hoB idea. So how are you interpreting “home”?

          • Seeker,
            What I’m saying is people might consider this place to be a home of Brown. But this Brown actually has their home somewhere else.

            Not sure if that is any better for you but if I say any more it might give away where I am talking about.

            Bur

          • Bur,

            I was curious if you were leaning that way… however, I wasn’t sure. { has you said- but is not truly the real home of this Brown.}

            At one time I thought the same. A hoB reference to be in another place [actually in another state other than the now 4 remaining states. ]
            The problem i see is that the hoB reference needs to have ‘use’ in the location of the actual search area. And can’t be ‘skip’

            Example; Browns-Valley Man was a thought of mine for hoB. It’s actual location is in MN. However, The remains [of Mr. Brown, a given name] sit on the 45th parallel.. so to “put in below” at the actual search area, my thoughts went to the idea of prior clues to be above, the 45th, are now sending you below it.

            I like the idea at one time because folks would be looking for something on location [ only to never be found ]. But if correct, does place a searcher in the correct spot [a spot that can be located on a map or GE, in the searchable area.]

            Now, with that idea in mind… can fenn’s statement; ~he followed the clues when he hid the chest~ work?
            Sure, the idea is more about knowing the 45th parallel, only never known of, IF hoB represent a clue that actually is out side the search area and not use as a “line” to get us back to the correct location [ difficult but not impossible to imagine ].
            The idea was, we needed knowledge the 45th, and not so much Brown, as the *deciphered clue.*

            LOL so , fenn could have simply used the 45th to guide a searcher to be within the 44th parallel on a map in the correct location, and he would have been as well, when he followed the *clues ‘deciphered’ references* line of thinking. [ is this part of the “learning curve for helping nail down WWWsH?]

            I’ll add for clarification… {if hoB is clue 3 or 4} clues 1 and 2 are on site ..so “NF” would be the idea of the parallels to be between, and “TFTW” would be where Brown is *located*.
            In this theory, hoB doesn’t help with what WWsH *is* or even a canyon, but as one moves through the poem [ if having the correct deciphering, and thoughts ] this idea of a clue *not* being in a search location does work, but is useless for the most part without the prior clues deciphered [hence needing the first clue or we have nothing to go on]… in the end… all the clues should * line up *

            In theory…. WWsH could be [example] a large area [lets say a lake] that sits on the 45th and into the 44th, so nailing down where WWsH *starting point* would need the canyon and hoB has confirmation of the correct WWsH out the the many *and* learn the starting point of that clues reference.

            But we still need figure out what warm waters halt *refers to* first and foremost… in this scenario, it is a guess as a lake just because one is in the area… imo, that would be simply force fitting only to make later clues look correct.
            If a searcher used [ lets say two merging rivers ] as WWsH, their solve is already off/wrong at the start just because there happens to be two rivers in the location, or a snow cap mountain etc. etc. All those ideas are still guessing… right?

            fenn made two comments [paraphrasing]
            ~ need to know where to start
            ~ need to start at the beginning

            While they seem similar or even the same… I think they are meant for two different idea/reasons.
            Need to know WWsH is the beginning
            and
            Need to know where to start [ starting point ] ‘at’ WWsH

          • Seeker,

            Let me say this. My home of Brown is really considered to be a home for this Brown, the one Fenn is referring to in the poem clue IMO.

            Now your WWWH idea I understand what your thought process was because I had that same idea in one of my beginning solves. But my understanding now is searchers are really not understanding how this process happens (halt), and where it happens, not just the place on a map where it is. Forrest gave a hint awhile back but I did not see anyone comment on it because the storyline was the topic for most.

            Of course what I said above is my interpretation and can be up in the air with other views.

            If your searching this year good luck.
            Bur

          • I’m with you all on this idea. Put in below is the clue, not HOB. Just my opinion. My next BOTG will use this logic.

        • Jake ~ ‘I say you need imagination and skip this 3rd clue and move on.’
          I’m not following how you can call hoB a *clue* and then say ‘ This is the *only clue* you do not need to find the treasure ‘

          “So I wrote a poem containing nine clues that if followed precisely will lead….” and the comment; the clues should be followed in order… there’s know other way to my [fenn] knowldge.
          LOL before we even read the poem we are told the whole point of this is to decipher 9 clues… not 8 or 6 or make up 10 or 12 clues.

          We also have the interview were fenn states [paraphrasing] if you knew hoB it would lead you right to the treasure… which I find Poison Ivy comment a bit strange as well, saying; ‘I don’t even think it’s a clue.’

          Regardless of *opinion* – How can hoB not be a vital piece of information when we are told, it is, by the guy who created the clues, designed the poem with/containing 9 clues?

          • Maybe I should have explained better.
            When you take your quest in the canyon down and you get to the end of that canyon, just “put in” and don’t try to look for HOB, just use your imagination and make it what you want because the real clue here is “put in” which in my solves would be the Madison.

            So your in the Madison River and let it take you down stream all in your imagination of course. You really don’t have to physically put a rubber dingy in the Madison just in your imagination.

            “From there” is the “put in” place for the next clue.
            All in my imagination.

          • Jake,

            How do you know where the end is exactly?
            IF the correct solve doesn’t have ‘water’ to ‘put in’… then wouldn’t hoB [ being a feature of sorts ] be ‘needed’?
            The idea of just having a river handy to tip your toe in, kinda forces hoB to be of water only.

            So while we’re talking about the “put in”

            It just seems you rely on water a lot.
            I find it interesting that “put in” with the use of water or water related; normally means to dock, or enter port. But many use as entering water.

          • The end of the Firehole Canyon or beginning depending how you look at it is obvious with Google Maps. It’s right where the Gibbon and Firehole meet to make the Madison and then from there it’s Madison Canyon (East) the other Madison Canyon is around the Heb dam area I think.

            Canyons are made from flowing water.
            Where warm waters halt.
            “put in” is a also a water term.
            Creek is water.
            I got water on the brain when I read the poem.

          • My comment comes from the ATF, no answer for, and just the overall guessing that goes with hoB. At that point of the poem, it isn’t so far fetched to say that the chest is put in below the home of Brown. Talking in a future tense. Who says that WE must “put in”? For us to have to “put in” does not sound very precise to me. Right when he says “not far”, he could just be looking forward and be referencing the chests’ placement. (a long distance to walk, below some hoB). Then, from where you are at, (canyon), you enter into no place for the meek. At this point, has nothing to do with what a searcher does, so no clue. Just an observation.

            Nowhere does f say this is a clue. In fact, he has said that he has not given an answer to that reference. So, if no answer, how can you think it is a clue to solve? If it is a clue, with no answer, then it is found BotG. That leads to the whole line just being too vague. If it is a “put in” thing, then where? Missing small at the start would lead to missing big at the end. It is too general, too vague, and not precise enough to be a clue, IMO. And, I know you were paraphrasing, but, the hoB does not lead anybody to anything. (I don’t have the ATF either, but don’t think it was lead, I could be wrong). No matter, the hoB would not be a clue if f is just making an observation at that point.
            If he is saying not far, but too far to walk, whether you think that is a long distance or not, isn’t he making an observation at that point? Which would lead to another observation?
            The strange thing is that searchers are not considering these things. Most are putting in somewhere, that’s fine, I just don’t get how, when they don’t have an answer for hoB, because f has not supplied the answer.
            Lastly, hoB must be some single object. Landscape, home, graveyard, whatever. How can it be considered a clue? It gets you no closer to where you are going. The clue would be “put in”. The thing is, exactly where? So, is hoB just a reference to let you know if you are on the right track? How can that be if we won’t even know we have the right start place until we have the chest? That would put the hoB as unnecessary. Is it a guide to let you know where to “put in”? Again, not a clue. It would be the “put in” and the “put out” that would be more the clue.
            Whatever hoB is, it will stand the passage of time, that leads it to not be something small that will not make it, right? Streams and rivers may dry up, houses cemeteries, buildings might not make it. Animals may not frequent the area 1000 years from now. Makes the landscape the most possible. That would be a large area, not a clue, IMO.

  7. Question: Do we know for a certainty that all clues in the poem are between 5000′ and 10200′? Or is it just the chest within those parameters?

    Often times I like to think ff saw his hiding spot from the sky and made notes to return to it. If that were true, HOB could be elevation on a sectional chart. Of course, this would probably fall below the 5000′ parameter, but since it’s entirely possible that the chest is ‘up a creek’ one could assume that a clue may fall outside of those parameters, but the chest does not.

    • There’ll be no paddle up your creek simply means that one does not need a paddle to get to the chest …. Remember that FF did this chest placement in two trips on one afternoon…… he stated he walked from the car ….

      • Well, I actually think ‘no paddle up your creek’ is important to finding HOB, but that’s not really my question here.

        My question is in regard to whether or not all the clues are on the map, or if all clues are within the elevation parameters. Perhaps the elevation parameters only apply to the chest itself? What if you’re going down a canyon and get to an elevation of 4800′, but then go back up to an elevation of 5000′ and find the chest? That’s all I’m getting at here. Or what about the ff quote regarding many places WWWH, most of them north of Santa Fe. Maybe people are reading that backwards, maybe what he’s really saying is focus on the WWWH south of Santa Fe because there’s fewer of them, then go not far but too far to walk (8.25 miles maybe?) and you’ll be back on the map within the parameters he’s given for the chest.

        • elpapa – The elevation at Baker’S Hole Campground is 6,600ft. Like ‘FF00’ or ‘Forrest Fenn Double Omegs’, maybe?

          There are a couple of old time graves at Cozy Corners at the appropriate distance and altitude in relation to the shore of Hebgen Lake. I think Forrest considered the ‘water high’ and altitude at my hidey spot, when he originally planned to lay under a tree and quietly sink into the Earth (paraphrased). The “pillowed down and scented in” part in “Flywater” could have ‘something’ to do with the pine trees and Canadian geese I can see in pics, and that are mentioned on that interpretive sign with the Brown trout on “IT”.

          All IMO.

          • Jake – Thank you! I posted that pic in another comment. But I have one here, where I can read the text clearly. Like where the interpretive sign mentions the Brown trout are Loch Leven trout.

            Here is my REAL home of Brown:

            https://www.highlandtitles.com/blog/lochleven-castle-and-the-last-queen-of-scotland-part-1/

            Sadly, Mary Queen of Scots did not win that game of thrones. She lost to her head. To my namesake, QE1. Wasn’t there a Brown guy and an explosion involved? I will have to Google that story.

            Maybe that “put in” is a latitude thing? Gotta go check those coordinates in Scotland and compare them to Baker’S Hole.

            Love, Elizabeth

          • You wrote to Eaglesabound:

            “The walls keep getting higher and higher with no end in sight.”

            That was ‘keep’:

            ‘I Kincross keep my secret where…’?

            I give you the classic Medieval keep: the Tower House. And a reference to this home of the brave, saved by William Wallace of “Braveheart” fame. His last words in that movie were: “Freedom!”

            Note: Lots of Grey geese. Anser anser by name.

            ‘The Ansers I already know..’?

            And that Medieval siege scene on the bronze chest.

            No Brown with Mary Queen of Scotts. Just that Guy Fawkes with the Gunpowder Plot. And the latitude is about 8° too far North.

            But Loch Levin Island has features that remind me very much of my Double Omega Island hidey spot at Baker’S Hole.

            All IMO.

  8. All this talk about the Home of Brown not being a significant clue ….. but nobody states a logical starting point for where warm waters halt …… if anyone really studies Forest Fenns childhood and through his youth…. one would see that he was all about fly fishing….. and that he remarks many times on this Brown Trout he would catch in the Madison…. if the warm waters halt on the Fire Hole river ….. which was FFs favorite bathing spot….. then the Madison would be the most likely HOB….. remember that the Madison river canyon came down in the Hebgen quake…. take it in the canyon down …… FF also mentions that the clues themselves did not exist when he was a child but the area of the clues did exist

  9. its my opinion – that there is no home of brown that has that name on a map at least not the one ff is talking about – I think its a clue that ff seen- on GE or its something he saw while flying and yes its something that he him self has named – 1 – its not a real home its a place – and by that I mean its not a structure-2- brown- its a land formation that he has named brown and this place is his home

  10. Let’s imagine for a moment that we are a teacher introducing some kids to a new kind of jigsaw puzzle, and those children have done puzzles before, but we are going to start it with words, ok remember we first would normally introduce a puzzle with a picture of how it should look when finished. However not this time, just words. So Miss Ford introduces the puzzle this way:

    “Now children, today we will show you an experiment using your own imaginations, to see if the image (picture) of our puzzle can be seen, sorta like closing your eyes but seeing the apple tree in the school yard garden near the place where the former teacher’s grave is at, now how many of you children see an Apple Tree? Remember that this is spring time and the blossoms are white and pink petals, the leaves have just shown as buds so now imagine that you have never seen nor eaten an Apple before, not tasted nor understood the vibrant color or smell of apples. Now since I am teaching you how to use your imagination I will give you a hint, they are red and sweet like your mother, and smell like her jelly for the canning with a tangy, sweet spicy flavor. Can you make or draw me a picture of the tree? Now the best tree picture will be placed on a piece of wood and the old wood cutter, Dal has agreed to jigsaw it into 166 pieces. If you want you can include Mrs Brown’s grave marker, she was the former school teacher here at Leadville School House, she was so wonderful to me when I was your age. Now get started and make sure you color inside the lines”

    Sooo What have we learned from this? Helps to think like a kid, now what would we need to “show” in the beginning of our picture, the puzzle of the school yard garden? Teacher has shown us this with the words, defined as hints, at first and since WWWH is the first clue then it has got to be a WHAT? It rhymes with the order, as in the____ of the stars, and since our teacher was an orderly or straight line middlie, did I spell that correctly (her nickname) we might see WWWH as somethin besides a stupid old hot springs.

    Well its not raining our and all this is just too much like work, and I never really liked drawing pictures much so I’ll just sneak out the window and slide down the rusty old BANNISTER, to freedom, like that story in my favorite book about the kid who catches children and keeps them from falling off the cliff, you know the one, he saves kids yet cannot keep his own life straight long enough to get an education, think I’ll just bum around a while or join the Service, maybe the Navy or Air Force, that should straighten me out. TIME will tell.

    How difficult to described in 166 pieces what has been illustrated here but deeper yet is the numbers game, and that is the key, what do you imagine are the co ordinates of the blaze, the final clue that you will not get help from google earth on. Why did it take so long to see.

    Speakin of See, See you at the S 019 Fennboree! WoOpy eee!

    TT

  11. There’s a reason that no one seems to get past the first couple clues.

    And there’s a reason that HOB is in the middle of those clues.

    If the poem were straight-forward directions, you would think someone would have been able to find this TC. It’s not straight-forward, it’s a puzzle and IMO HOB is the catch to the puzzle. I’m not saying HOB isn’t a clue, I believe it is. What I’m saying is that I don’t think it’s a clue that’s needed to solve the poem. I think it’s a clue that’s meant to throw us off. I love that Jake said “you need imagination”….anyone with knowledge can figure out what the clues are but it takes imagination to understand the clues.

    • I believe I worded this wrong.

      I meant to say: There’s a reason that no one seems to get past the first couple clues and there’s a reason that HOB is in the middle of the 9 clues. To me, WWWH is the 1st clue and HOB is the 4th clue, which can be omitted if you know the location of the 5th clue. HOB is vague and meant to throw us off while still being a real clue.

  12. Lucky, Forrest would not add something to the poem to throw us off! He said straight forward………
    In order………no red herrings imo.
    Home of Brown? Important clue!

    • Lou Lee-

      He did it with the book.

      “Non-fiction writers don’t have to be right but 85% of the time.”

      Not everything in that book is straight-forward so why should we think everything in the poem is?

  13. Lucky Ryder, well said, the problem to focus IMO is on the one of “WHERE is the Home of Brown, not so much a “put in” in it longitudinal or other relationship/proximity it may only be expressed for its value as a co ordinate, for use at the creek where you put into water. Imagine if each clue moves you closer to Indulgence, does demand or infer that me it, Browns home sits close to WWWH or even halfway to the blzae?

    Perhaps not, because as you stated it is after all in the middle of some clues even ff admits so to speak. Just subtle as the blaze being espressed as past tense, HOB could be well away and is only a frame of coordinate, like a mountain top off in the distance, take a bearing and look at a put in BELOW, later it or this could prove important to navigation from the put in.

    It was 28 degrees this am at my house south of Santa Fe, NM, this might be a good day to sit and think by a juniper fire, too much wind to play golf so…shucks all I have are a bunch of dead Aspen Wood, smokey that. Burns quick just like a blade runner the fire cuts thru it.

    TT

    • Tom Terrific: “Perhaps not, because as you stated it is after all in the middle of some clues even ff admits so to speak”

      Tom, I find it difficult to figure out what you’re trying to say.
      What did Fenn admit to?
      Thanks.

      • Jake, my first reference for that comment comes from the Forrest Fenn interview at the Lure, IMO ff is insinuating that more than 2 clues may have been solved or disclosed, but not in the correct order, furthermore he is describing “The Blaze” (past tense) the same as he used to describe “Where Warm Waters Halt”: This very short interview and too the point.

        nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9czRin3Tas

        My second reference, or as I like to call them, my “camps for a new frame of reference” is from this, you must click on LISTEN (blue arrow) to hear it’s at 4:39 fenn says it. Interview was produced 03/05/13 only 7 min long.

        https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/monday-cyprus-crisis-retiring-prostitutes-muzzled-scientists-1.2942211/sante-fe-treasure-hunt-1.2942225
        Jake, I have been at this since 2011 and rarely does a scrap of kno a ledge get past me, I retired in 2010 but my wife still works in Santa Fe, NM not that it give me any insight, but time is closing in on Mr Fenn and I am amazed at the fact he seldom says this, which I have only heard once ” see 2:05 into this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJBakBqwQVs.” Now I know where you are searching Jake, and it is a picture perfect spot, good luck and good hunting.

        TT

        • OK, so I listened to the videos and audios and got this:
          We need to know “WHERE” the HOB is and I’ve also said that many times but I don’t think we need to know “WHAT” it is many times.

          “I don’t know that anybody” I’ll stop right there. He says he doesn’t know in the Lure video.

          The video at 2:05 he’s not saying anything. Could you give me a hint or say something like 2:05 – 2:32.

          Anyway, I was asking what Fenn admitted to what you said he did? Nevermind.

        • Not sure how those interviews make your point about HOB not being on the route to the treasure (which, BTW is a great idea). What about (paraphrasing, which is dangerous) the idea that the clues are contiguous and produce a map to the treasure? And that they get progressively easier? How about his statement that if you knew HOB you could go right to the treasure? Or am I missing another point you are making?

          • That’s right! Big Guy. It’s not only my logic but it’s what Forrest has said too.

          • If you knew where HOB was (and that it’s irrelevant) you could go right to the chest. Makes perfect sense to me. We’ve been foxing with HOB for 9 years and using it hasn’t helped a single person get to that TC so why keep doing the same thing. It’s a puzzle that just happens to contain directions too. PUZZLE.

    • TT-

      Sounds like a great day to sit by a fire and think. That’s how FF starts his book. Maybe you’ll find some of that “awareness” that he speaks about that a lot of us seem to be lacking lol 🙂

  14. HOB tells you where wwwh from there (hob) so you can double check that you are in the right place or going the right way – HOB tells you – from there its no place for the meek the end is ever drawing nigh there be no paddle up your creek just heavy loads and waters high this tells me (waters high) to go north where i will find the blaze in the wood your efforts will be worth the cold – hob tells me not to go south -east or west so there is only one way to go and that’s north – so I think that hob is the map to get you to the treasure chest

    • Perhaps so Frank, but I tend to think one can also be lead astray by this clue. Consider the searchers that got two clues right and went by the rest. Did they find something that was a more obvious HoB and headed to that? All the while the real spot, either the real HoB, or the real Put in below spot was a little more obscure. Double checking against the wrong HoB could send you the wrong way.

      • Aaron – maybe so Aaron but you cant go by what happened to other people – read the poem and try to understand it ff said the poem has all you need to find the TC – don’t let other peoples luck distract you that’s what leads you astray that is my opinion

        • I totally agree Frank, however it is proven to be easier said than done. All I’m saying is the most obvious HoB may be a fake! Perhaps if the poem is solved correctly though then the solver will know the difference.

          • Aaron- imo nothing about the poem is fake -there is a real wwwh and hob – why wait till the poem is solved to find out about hob – you are letting your self down by thinking that way – you can do it- you can find all the clues – don’t cut yourself short get in there and find it good luck

          • Frank, I don’t think you get what I am saying. I’m totally confident in my thinking abilities. All I am saying is, as way of learning from the close searchers mistakes, watch out for what you think might be clues leading you away from the treasure. Good luck to you.

        • if wwwh is below no place for the meek that’s where hob is which way would you go – north east south -or west from no place for the meek to get to wwwh

          • That’s a good question Frank. I had the same question when it came to my solve…what is above/below and what direction would I be going. Maybe North but down at the same time…I guess it comes down to perception of the location, elevation, which way the water flows and a million other things. IMO, the map is to get us to the spot and rest will be solved using imagination, therefore, IMO, North/South/East/West don’t mean as much as we might think.

          • Lucky Ryder- if you knew what below hob means you would understand that you have to go east to wwwh you don’t start going north till you get to hob where all the clues are
            hob
            – north
            wwwh
            that’s the way I understand it
            if it was any other way it would say put in south of hob or another direction . imo you have to go north from hob from there to get to the TC jmo

          • Hey Frank-

            If it makes sense to you and your solve (meaning HOB) then use it and good luck to you. I think my comments may have sparked some thought in a few people and after 9 years of not solving this poem, I think new ideas (right or wrong) is what may be needed. Our HOB may be different, but the passion searchers feel is across the board and in the end, that’s part of the treasure….IMO of course 🙂

          • Hey Lucky Ryder good luck to you to – my comment wasn’t meant to change their way of thinking or any ones for that matter – you continue your way and should others and I will go my own way right or wrong its still my opinion frank

      • Thanks Ken that’s nice of you to say that I didn’t think any one noticed I was gone lol – that made my day Ken thank you frank

          • Hi Clint – Thank you Clint – well im still here and still fighting it and thanks to all of you for your prayers – sometimes its painful and I want to give up and some days I feel ok and the fight continues – but im hanging in there Clint – thanks for wishing me well Frank

  15. Just like the clue WWWH we have two schools of thought that developed and still are, Home of Brown may have split in a similar fashion, those who believe it is in a closer physical distance, perhaps in the middle like 4th or 5th distance wise, and those like me who think it is someplace else, no place for the meek is similar, since the poem says FROM THERE it is no place for the meek, you do not necessarily have to GO in there, just a frame of reference to recognize, and it surely has a Latitude that could be important for navigation later.

    I think these split camps in our observations like the hot spring, and the other camp I am from exist in the secondary layer of dimension our imaginations create. SO me say patato some misspell po taato but we think of the veggie dont’s we unless some one sees fries, do we want ketsup with that? Perhaps the reason that not anyone to ff’s Uncertain knowlanedge has gotten more than a few and perhaps in the wrong order?

    Decide today which camp or dimension holds your knowlege hostage, now where is that backward bike video?

    TT

    • Tom Terrific – My “camp” is Brown’s Camp aka Baker’S Hole. What did Forrest write about “knowlege” and on which bronze figure or bell? And wouldn’t a Captain Kidd Island in the Public Domain of a Montana waterway be the very definition of freedom? Held hostage? A Maverick who dreams of pirates like Forrest? Hardly.

      “O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.”
      – Francis Scott Key

      I See Skippy. And Fireworks.

      IMO.

        • Lisa, speaking of intentionally misspelled words, this one baffles me up to a point..But to Forrest it is umbilical, this. is sublime yet concrete to me, a fellow Vet…Knowlege is knowlanedge knowl noll land on the edge, listen carefully to a fennism on part of that word Knoll might mean: 2nd stanza the entire verse “Is it my Candy Ann” book “Once”. :

          “Or maybe it’s a desperate soul, an eager sort, standing on a woody knoll,
          Waiting for the whirling Candy Ann, who in her usual rescue chore,
          Will come to get the willing man, and bring him home forevermore.”

          Seems so odd to me that in 2008 this happened; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knol

          So why is that important you ask? Because to know a ledge like that one is to be umbilically tied to Candy Ann and that place forevermore.

          I know umbilical attachment are like your feeling toward “Yellowstone” and the attraction is strong, but fate and time may desert us from our attachments and a new love may find its way into our grownup self, so somewhere in the Rocky Mountians is a place where memories and dreams are so vivid and revered by Forrest that he invested a million to save it, like he got saved by Candy Ann.

          It must have felt like home to Fenn when he entered “Alone in There” and I feel the key has always been a place where he excavated, an ancient place, where you touch down and find contentment.

          Is it the key? Perhaps, but we shall see at Fennboree S 019

          TT

          TT

      • Tom Terrific – Was it you or OS2 who said Forrest put that upper X on the map on page 99 of TTOTC on the losenge of a quincunx?

        If you pinpoint Campsite #61 on this Baker’s Hole Campground map, then go to Google Earth satellite view, you will see that a perfect losenge-like tent site corresponds to that X placement in relation to my babkwards bike S blaze:

        http://lh3.ggpht.com/_3-PWZ861xD4/TIhX3yXjGoI/AAAAAAAAJkY/Lzg__Fq-Pzg/s1600/BakersHoleMap2.jpg

        Did Forrest and his Father camp in the Airstream at site #61, I wonder?

        All IMO.

          • Lisa, I figured (from the frequency of your postings) that you either enjoy or are addicted to it, or both. Have you made any big plans for spending your time after this hunt ends?

  16. Jake Faulker,

    I too have been in the Madison River area. I want to share with you and everyone else, where I went, what I was looking for and what I found.
    My WWH is Madison Junction as there are no more geysers beyond the confluence. My map takes me down the canyon about 3.5 miles. HoB could be where the fall spawning trout come up out of the lake to make a nest for dropping their eggs, or Hob could be the nest of a Brown Creeper along Hwy 191. We may never know what HoB really is. My “put in” takes me across the river and up a creek that is strewn with down timber from the fires of ’88. You can see it on GE but you cant see water. A mile or more up the side canyon you can see water on GE. Around the side of Mt Haynes, way up high in the side canyon. The route up the creek is no place to take your fly rod with your Meeks reel as it is just too congested. The Blaze can be seen in the fall. It is a lone aspen tree in all of its golden glory on the hill side above. My look quickly down took me to 44° 38′ 35′ N 110°56’17″W which on GE looks like a cave. FF says its not in a cave but he didn’t say that it’s not in a Lava Tube. With the proximity to the cone shapes right in front of this hole I was convinced this was the place.
    My route of choice was to “jump off” at Seven Mile Bridge. Seven Mile Bridge is near the Omega created by the pull out to the picnic area which is off of the Omega shaped bend in the Highway. It is also right at the border of the county line. I hiked up the right side of the river following the Elk and Buffalo trails to the second island in the river. I then cut up through the new growth that replaces the forest that was burned in ’88. No easy way through this for about 100 yards. 10 years ago it would have been easy walking but now it is like forging through a Bamboo jungle or 12′ tall CRP grass…it’s thick! When I got to the bottom of the scree field it is easy walking again. Fields of boulders of all sizes are home for may small animals. There are countless places to hide, maybe even some large enough to hide a body, but I was headed to that hole. A last push through some downed timber and the creek comes close, that comes down from the canyon above. The spring water was definitely running high on this day, but so much timber down across the creek there would be no way to travel up it from the river. Another few yards and my destination would be about 20′ above the creek bottom, pointed at the cone shaped hill on the opposite side of the creek.
    There it was. 2.3 miles and 90 minutes from the truck I had left at the bridge. No human trails close by. But wouldn’t you know, some prankster had gone in there and put a 12′ round flat rock over the opening of my lava tube.
    I had a theory on everything. I’ve been looking at this spot on the earth since December. My wife and I tried a month ago to get to it and were turned back by snow in the new trees that made it impassable. 30 days later I made it, only to find that things aren’t always as they seem. Back along the scree field there are several old remnants of fire rings. Someone, many years ago, camped in that spot and no doubt warmed by a blaze.
    More questions than answers now but I still like the area. I started looking at NM in 2013 or so and then to YNP a couple years back. Three boots on the ground are enough for me. Tales of obsession have crept into my mind and my beautiful wife and I have better things to spend time on. Take this information if it helps, and forget it if it doesn’t. Good luck to all….I’m out!

    SJM

    • I love it!
      That was one of my old solves that brought me up that unnamed creek with all those trees down. Very difficult and decided to scrap it being so difficult.
      Yup, the cone shapes at the base, I studied this area extensively back in 2016?

      I didn’t make it that far up that creek, it was more of a recon mission to see how doable it was and didn’t take me long to scrub it. I also thought the paddle creek may have been one of the other creeks further down and up the Madison, the one by Three Brothers and the dry creeks way down.

      There were so many tourists and fishermen around on the Madison it made me think I was at the wrong spot to park to hide the treasure.

      Thanks for sharing, I feel better that I’m not the only one that liked those creeks on the other side of the Madison in the canyon.

    • Thanks for sharing SJM. The dense forest growth after the ’88 fire is a fierce obstacle indeed. One that I wonder if Forrest could have truly anticipated? Anyway, good luck on quitting cold turkey…there are lots of treasures and explorations to be had in the 4 Corners region that pay off big time in experience and memories. I’m rather enjoying the winter that keeps on giving here in Durango. Imagine … Iron Horse festivities and another weekend of skiing at Purgatory on Memorial Day weekend – unprecedented fun!

      • Hey Sandy,

        You don’t have to tell me, I was born and raised there. Three time finder of the Silver Bullet. I moved to Idaho two years ago but coming back for the Blues Train next weekend. It will be a bittersweet visit. Cant wait to soak in Pagosa and eat some fish tacos at Kips.

        Take care and good luck. SJM

  17. Forrest talks about brown assaulting the senses in his book. And a brown stain on his pants. A brown bag when he had to run away from Texas A&M (not happy here either). So I believe HOB is something disagreeable to him. Not something positive.

    In that same arena we could tie in other situations that may have been disagreeable to him by using the color brown. For instance, Br. Own. Home of Bureau Owned. The area I was searching is owned by the Bureau of Land Management. They spent millions of dollars building a leaky dam and screwing up a creek. It basically operates like a sink drain. Now all that’s left of that creek is mud. He couldn’t go back there if he tried. It’s gone.

    • Sorry Copper;

      I just can not agree with you. My hoB is certainly nothing that is disagreeable, and it has nothing to do with the BLM – So, sorry, I can not agree – JMO – JDA

    • Good observation Copper. Can’t expect everyone to agree as some are married to their HoB, but it doesn’t mean you are right or wrong.

    • I agree with your 1st paragraph Copper.
      Some want HOB or Brown to be positive whether its an important person in Fenns life or a comfortable thought of home and others are sure what it is.
      Why can’t it be something negative where it may be a place to put in and get out of there going through the place of the meek?

      Who knows, maybe Brown is B-row-n down the stream.

    • Copper, ~ ‘So I believe HOB is something disagreeable to him. Not something positive.’
      I like the idea overall… however…

      There are many places within the search area that are natural and ‘assaulting the senses’ line of thinking. Such as the mud pots in YSP. A place that might be considered no place for the meek as well.

      I think BML lands is a bit of a stretch as you explain it;
      ‘Br. Own. Home of Bureau Owned’ as a single clue reference for Brown. The BML was established in 1946, YSP was established in 1872… what happens if another agency takes it [BLM] over [ lets say 2046] what happens to that possible clue “down the road” for searchers 200, 300 hundred years later.
      I mean seriously, do you know many of the government agency from the 1800’s that are no longer or change to the control of another department [ as an example ]? IMO, that would be a tricky clue to discover.
      But again, I like your idea of how brown is presented and might be subtle enough to consider an unpleasant type of place… at least for the majority.

      LOL If I was a driving out clues kinda guy i’d start with YS lake as WWsH {yellow in name to a warm color} canyon down, the grand canyon of YS. Obviously that distance and other clues are relatively far apart. hoB the Mud pots, FTINPFTM – Geyser Basin? The ‘end’ would be a ‘boundary line’ such as the end of the park’s property going in the same direction… It would be a nice drive, but I doubt if this is how fenn designed the clues; as a drive through tour.

      I’ll add: if a dam is involved with any clue… I personally get a little squeamish about man-made anything involved with clues. But that’s just me.

      Just rambling and rumbling…

      • All good ideas. BLM built the dam, and that won’t change. Although the governing agency might. What I was thinking was that they altered his valued place. So it went from one thing to another. The Dam is Anchor Dam if you’d like to read up on it.

        My solve didn’t pan out this summer…but I also didn’t go with complete confidence. I don’t know what home of brown is, I just have ideas from how his words in TTOTC resonate with me.

        Look at the dam on GE and tell me if you see any commonalities with his drawings. I’d be interested to hear more.

        Boy you guys are a smart bunch! This is fun! Thank you for the feedback.

        • Copper;

          If you just want to do some crazy thinking – – – When I read “home of Brown” – For some reason I think of “Home of the Brave” – I then think about the French soldier’s grave markers in “My War for Me”. My crazy mind then thinks about the “Brave men” that died in the Indo-China war, and then of all of those men that died in the Vietnam war. – – – Men in French = hommes. Mixing French and English – “Brave men” = Hommes of the Brave”. And we are back to ” home of Brown.” Rather convoluted, but that is just how my mind works sometimes. Weird huh? 🙂 JDA

        • Copper: “tell me if you see any commonalities with his drawings.”
          Who’s drawings? I don’t think Fenn drew any of those in TTOTC although 1 may be.

          • Jake, I’m in the camp that Forrest was heavily involved with the drawings even though he said he wasn’t. 🙂

          • Of course he was involved, it’s his book, I saw the video but he didn’t draw them as far as I know.

  18. Another thought I had is that you won’t know you found the home of Brown until the end. You end up at the rainbow, full of color, and then realize you had to walk through the brown to get there. Again, just an idea. Feel free to shoot holes in it.

    Speaking of color….I just noticed the emblem on Forrest Jeans in Tea With Olga looks like the center of a pansy. That’s interesting.

      • The argument of color vs a name is an interesting one. I wish I could justify the capital B. Has anyone thought of another reason this could be there other than a name? If there is no other reason, and it is not a name, it would mean it is just there to throw us off. We know that FF wanted to make it difficult but not impossible, yet at the same time with no subterfuge.

        • Aaron;

          Scroll up about seven entries, and you will see why I think it is capitalized – “Home of the Brave” sometimes denotes the USA .and is therefore capitalized.

          “Home of the Brave” is also a 2006 American drama film following the lives of four Army National Guard soldiers in Iraq and their return to the United States. In both cases, the “B” is capitalized. JMO – JDA

          • “The land of the free and the home of the brave” is found in our national anthem. That is why many refer to the USA as “The home of the Brave.”… and thus capitalizing “Brave” – JDA

        • Aaron;

          Hard to explain except that when I hear the words “Home of Brown” – My mind just automatically changes it to “Home of the Brave” – No “real” connection, except in my mind.

          It all makes sense if you are in my search area. It makes sense when you read “My War for Me.” It all ties in together.

          As a stand-alone piece of information, it seems like a far reach, I admit. Thanks for ankin’ – JDA

          • I see, well hopefully for you FF has the same connection in his mind. Though, if it there isn’t a connection in the poem alone, regardless of the book, it sounds questionable to me.

        • Hey Aaron… because the word(Brown) is in a poem, there could be alternative reasons. Poets have used capitalization in different ways for a long while. Or not…

          • Understood Ken. Emily Dickinson was one to capitalize random words that are not proper nouns. This is normally done so that the word stands out. One issue though is that shouldn’t there be consistency? Is Brown the only word in the poem that he wants to stand out? He has stressed not to discount any words. In a quote about trove: “The word trove is a very important thing.” Why not capitalize it so that it stands out as well if it is “a very important thing”?

          • Aaron… It was just one alternative to look at. I don’t believe that it is any coincidence that the capitalized word(Brown) happens to be very close to where it seems everything goes awry for searchers. Have a good one…

          • “I don’t believe that it is any coincidence that the capitalized word(Brown) happens to be very close to where it seems everything goes awry for searchers.” – Ken

            Wholeheartedly agree with this statement. Have a good one too.

          • Ken ~ ‘I don’t believe that it is any coincidence that the capitalized word(Brown) happens to be very close to where it seems everything goes awry for searchers.’

            Well, we know it’s the 3rd and 4th clue that they seem to stumble up on, Yet is Brown really either one of those clues?

            I could argue “Not Far” as clue 3 and “But too far to walk” clue 4. Yet, those two ideas [ clues 3 4 ] could represent a single thought. LOL so are they separate clues or a combination for a single though.
            To Clarify; “Not far” is a distance not to be known of, just seen / viewable. “BUT too far to walk” might be saying; don’t go there… just see what needs seeing. In this case; they could be clues of instructions rather than movement for the search… which could also indicate this is how hoB is found / discover.

            LOL so it could be a number of “clues” alluding to one reference location, line of thinking. Maybe this is why fenn counted the clues after he finished the poem?

            I’m still a strong believer there are not 9 different locations for each of fenn’s 9 clues… IMO, of course.

          • Seeker… Your comment is exactly why I used the words [close to where]. I figured there may be an end around idea in the making. HA !
            I liked your {symbol} reference and some other possibles for the capital B. If we can take Fenn at his word in terms of *straight forward* and other comments along those lines… it seems like simple logic that Brown is put right where it is, to bee noticed. The jury is still out on [why].
            You are correct when you say… ” I could argue “Not Far” as clue 3 and “But too far to walk” as clue 4″ and that is just fine by me really. Even with your clarification I can’t buy into that notion. Heck… I believe Fenn when he said [sounds like three or four to me]. Oh well…back to work for me.

          • Ken,

            LOL you know I know of how many clues in this or that line, comment… But for fun, How many is it- 3 or 4?

            I still have to ask the age old question; how many clues does it take to get to the center of the tootsie pop? How many “clues” represent a single answer or physical place on site?

            You remember~ “Most people called him JBB, but I called him JB for short. I caught a nice fish and with it he took my photo. I mean he took my photo with it.”~ SB 124

            And take it in the canyon down {clue 2}? or
            Begin it where warm waters halt and “take it in’ the canyon down {clues 1 n 2 being the same place}?.

            NFBTFTW a clue’s place, or instruction to understand how to locate hOB to “put in” below the hob of Brown?
            Are they two different clues Or clues that are needed for each other to achieve “one” thing…
            Is stanza two 4 different clues and their different places for a searcher to go, or is stanza two all the same place for the searcher to be?

            Regardless of the actual count… what is a purpose of a clue? To help figure out an answer… right?
            Well, again… how many “clues” does it take to decipher a “reference” / what fenn is actually alluding to be “known.”

            IMO..the clues can be referring different places, only they are observed from were we start. Hence- starting/looking for later clues is a folly. But we still need to know [ hopefully ] what they represent when looking at them.

          • I have to agree with Ken, that like FF said the first stanza has either 3 or 4 clues. So PIBTHOB is either the 3rd or 4th clue, which means people got NFBTFTW wrong or PIBTHOB. That being said we are basically told that finding the first clue is most important, and easier than trying to reverse engineer the poem.

            As to yellow being warm. Why not red or orange? Also both warm colors. Did the poem tell you to choose yellow? Is it because there is a Yellowstone and no Orangestone or Redstone. Sounds like a dart toss. Solve the poem and stop guessing.

          • Seeker… I hear ya loud and clear… but at the same time I have to keep in mind that Fenn has suggested in more ways than one(IMO) that the clues are quite likely… places. You know…[most of the places the clues refer to]… [try to marry the clues to a map] etc. etc. You seem to bypass these concepts when combining them to ring true together. I just can’t see how one is supposed to {take in the view} on a *good map* or GE for that matter. I don’t know man… 200 feet on GE is pretty fuzzy looking, and a 2 dimension flat map doesn’t provide much of a viewing. Good chat though…

        • Aaron,

          Not that my current solve is correct by any means, but in unlocking home of Brown, I first worked on it as a proper noun – which gave me a “lead”. I quickly learned that it led me to hundreds of locations in the Rockies. I then worked to reduce that number to something workable – I did that by finding a second meaning for home of Brown – completely unrelated to the first and not needing a capitalized “B”. I then looked for locations that met both understandings of the word.

          Subsequently, I reviewed ATFs and convinced myself that there are some confirmations (bias?) there.

          But what about beginning at WWWH? I reverse engineered. (Since this is the hoB page I won’t talk about that here.)

          In no way do I know if I am right. I won’t until BOTG. Just saying that method produced a result for me. Both a proper noun and also not a proper noun.

          TH

          • I don’t like the idea of reverse engineering. FF has repeated over and over that we have to find the first clue and we should play Canasta if we haven’t (paraphrased). We can’t just find a mud pot, Brown mountain, or Joe Brown put in and try to tie a WWWH to it. According to FF the poem doesn’t work like that.

        • Aaron,

          Colors could represent something other than color itself.
          Yellow for example is a warm color. Does anything pop in your head about what WWsH means?

          Brown capitalized could represent something other than a color or even a ‘proper name’. A symbol for instance, or symbolize something unrelated to the color.

          Gold is even a well known color, however, does it represent actual gold [treasure] in the poem or something else?
          Even the word ‘bold’ can represent different colors [primary colors].
          Blaze? ‘Bright’ colors; red, orange, yellow, green, blue, purple, pink, brown, gray, black and white.

          The point is; there are things / words stated in the poem that seem to be colors but could represent a clue that has very little or nothing to do with the ‘actual’ color.
          Example: is WarmWsH to be understood as yellowstone lake, line of thinking. {warm meaning comfortable… yellow being a warm color} Yet no color is mentioned in that line… it location is represented by “warm” for a specific WWsH out of the many [ for example only ].

          Might it be that stanza 4 is representing something of color{s} [but not actual colors] to linger a short time with marvel gaze?

          Does fenn suggest, in the intro line of the book; the words that seem to be about colors are more to the idea of clues references? His special place to find – ‘his rainbow’ – and where he secret the chest?

          More… Rambling and Rumbling

        • Aaron,

          What I have found is that Brown is both a proper noun and a color and resides at a place Forrest has hinted at many times and was discovered when running a ‘what if’. The big payoff is that HOB took me to other important places, while also serving to validate I was heading in the right direction.

          The funny thing is, I had unwittingly already been to the HOB many times in my research because I found places in the poem that took me there. Then one day that light popped on and sure enough, there it was, right where it should be.

          I shared this with my big brother but he was skeptical which was not unexpected. ‘Pure coincidence’ he said. Maybe, but I don’t think so.

          Finnally (don’t you love FennGlish? ), there’s another important relationship you’ll see as soon as you find the correct Brown.

          Pinatubocharlie

          • Hi Aaron,

            When I first began this thing, Yellowstone, like many searchers, was the place I gravitated to since I’ve been there a few times, once when a boy and again when my kids were young.

            Then I started putting things together which to be somewhere else. Then one day I found my key word in the poem and I’ve been focusing on that place ever since. 3 BOTG searches (last year) so far and I hope to do another one late summer early fall, weather permitting.

            Take care………..Pinatubocharlie

  19. Hi Aaron,

    I did not like the idea either to reverse engineer. But I was getting nowhere with the first clue.

    After I determined my WWWH through reverse engineering, I thought about what FF had said about there being several in the Rockies and most of them were north of Santa Fe. My WWWH fit this broad idea. I took a look at a number of the other WWWH locations – but they failed due to no canyon down, or the lack of other clues lining up.

    I really do not understand the idea of being about to solve WWWH in a vacuum – without any consideration for any other clues or broader concepts (big picture). I suppose “technically” I might have been able to reach my idea for WWWH this way, but given the way people think it simply does not seem workable. FF seems to suggest you can “solve” or “unlock” WWWH in and of itself. I don’t agree since we don’t really know we solved the first clue until we have solved the other 8 and found the treasure chest. If we really can KNOW what WWWH is before moving onto the other clues, that suggests there is either a built in confirmation (built in where?) or an answer. Did FF really supply us with everything we need to KNOW what WWWH is by just the poem, or just the poem and TTOTC, or those plus a good map — without considering any other clues?

    Most of us, I think, are trying to find a WWWH that is at a canyon, and down the canyon is a hoB. SOme, I know, believe WWWH may be as simple as a place named Warm Waters. But you cannot know you are correct without continuing to work on the other clues.

    JMHO

    TH

    • T hunter,

      If you can locate hoB.. why do you need WWWsH?

      Paraphrasing; we have nothing if we don’t have the first clue.

      So my question is; can we actually find hoB [ the correct fenn’s reference to that line in the poem ] without WWWsH?
      Can we simply find the ‘no place for the meek’ reference, and just go there-?- skipping hoB… What about HLnWH {regardless of how we / each of us deciphered a clue}

      I mean if we can actually find any later clue, what’s the point of having to follow the ‘9 clues in consecutive order’ ~ as fenn said, there’s no other way to his knowledge. And not to forget he stated; he followed the clues when he hid the chest…

      • Seeker, I think it’s more the path you take then anything. I don’t think you can skip wwwh, or the canyon to get to the next clue. Think of it as a one way in trail that does not allow cars. Start= wwwh, etc…
        The references of the clues out in the field will coincide with the poem.

        I like the idea of reverse engineering. F said the poem will give an “x”, a spot, also, some clues will be discovered, and in reference to wwwh, you need to find out. Makes perfect sense, but it comes from solving the poem which is not the same, IMO, as solving clue to clue.

        Even solving the poem, IMO, may not yield answers to some of the clues until you get BotG. I mean, we only know of two clues, we don’t even know what a clue is. So how could we, with confidence, solve each clue with the poem? Not likely. But, with confidence, we could solve the poem and get a spot, which we then can derive a start point.

        To answer your question, I guess a helicopter could drop you off right at the spot, foregoing all the clues, but not realistically. Plus, we couldn’t find later clues because we wouldn’t see them. Our path we must walk takes care of all that.

        Reverse engineering follows all the f comments, but if it is with solving clues, I don’t see it. I see solving the poem to get your spot and the path taken to reveal some of the clues un-answerable. (and coordinates help:)

      • Seeker:

        This all will depend upon your solutions for each clue. For example, if my hoB was the home of Molly Brown (which it is not) then I would not need to know WWWH at all. Assuming I was correct about my hoB, that is. There is only one Molly Brown home.

        My hoB is not unique. My solution for this one single clue can be married to a number of locations on a number of maps. Same with my WWWH solution. Not unique. But when I look on maps to find a WWWH within a certain proximity (NFBTFTW) to hoB (and all having a canyon down) I easily rule out many of the other possible locations.

        So I have a location that fits my WWWH and has a hoB down the canyon. And then I look to see if the instruction to “Put in below” makes sense, and if this location has my solution for NPFTM that is nearby Check.

        And so on.

        I do not vary my understanding of what WWWH is, or what hoB is, or what NPFTM is — etc. I have solutions for what these are. At present, I am very confident.

        This all seems obvious to me. You have to marry the clues to the map, says FF. That is what I did. Seems to me most people are still force fitting clues into locations they favor. They find ATFs or historical facts or some other such support that pleases them.

        Because we cannot know for certain whether we have the correct solution, until we go BOTG and find the treasure, it seems to me you want to make sure that you have really solved the poem, that you understand all nine clues and what they mean and how they get you right to the chest. (Unless you can afford to travel to the Rockies whenever you feel like it.) My solve does this.

        I know that is contrary to the present trend that you cannot get past the first two clues without being on the ground and seeing.Or that clues 3-9 are all within 200 feet of hoB. I don’t care about the trendy ideas about the search. Those come and go.

        The clues work together. Seems silly to me to assume you can know with certainty what any one of them is, in isolation. But as you string them together . . . . .

        JMHO

        TH

        • T hunter ~ ‘This all seems obvious to me. You have to marry the clues to the map, says FF…’

          I can’t argue your approach. I can debate that fenn didn’t say the above. The comment was, in part; “… marry the clues to “a place” on a map.”
          Logically, one could say that the idea is knowing the “location” of ‘all’ the clues [ where they all are within an area “a place”]… even before attempting to solve them, might be the key point, and no so much each individual clue first.

          Some attempt this by a state, others by a type of WWsH only, others by a later clue that seems to apply to the previous clues… only we seem to found out, there are tens of thousands of location that we can do this.

          If we don’t have the first clue nailed down, we have nothing / stay home / out of the many possibilities for WWsH, comments, tells me we need to have a certainty of ‘where the hunt plays out’ and fenn seems to imply that in his warning comment. That’s how we can find the first correct clue. But even then it doesn’t seem to be a proof positive… something is alluding all… and it seems to be the process of how the clues themselves form / perform their rolls.

          I’ll go out on a limb and say again, I don’t think even fenn ‘knew’ the blaze, beforehand, while writing the poem.
          I think his personal memory=ies /knowledge of the place led him to a spot where he utilized an object there to be the blaze… hence completing the poem. And why he followed is own creation.
          Don’t get me wrong, he knew the spot, but he didn’t have a 10″ sq spot picked out or the blaze, up front. imo.

          Here’s another comment that might relate, paraphrasing; he could have wrote the poem before hiding the chest, but he didn’t.
          Well, he did to just that… right? Wrote the poem over a 15 year span [starting near 1988ish] and hid the chest later [ at age almost 80]. Ya have to ask yourself.. what did he need to actually do on site, after following the clues he created to “complete” the poem?
          I think he need to find a blaze to use and hid the trove, just like he tells us to be wise and find it ourselves [ the blaze ]

          We’re not looking for a buried / hidden chest that no one can stumble upon… we’re looking for ‘the blaze’ to reveal where it is. I think fenn did the same.
          LOL it would be a good question to ask;
          Did you know of and where, the poem’s blaze reference, before you followed the clues when you hid the chest?

          • Seeker,

            Thanks for correcting the FF quote. It is important to get those right and I was a little lazy.

            I generally agree with you that he needed to hide the chest before he finished the poem because to lead someone to the chest he had to scout out the final area in detail – perhaps to select a blaze, or to leave a blaze (if you subscribe to the mark on a tree or rock idea), or to do something else .

            I think the reason this is so hard to solve is that we do not know whether or not we are using the right method when building our solve. Then add to that the multitude of “hints” contained in TTOTC, other books, interviews etc etc. Then add searchers own rabbit holes. Then add all the blogs and vlogs and all that noise.

            My method may be dead wrong. But at least I have a code.

            TH

    • I believe that we can determine WWWH from the first stanza. I have come up with two locations in two different states based on the first stanza, and may search both this year. Using later clues to confirm WWWH? I don’t know about that, perhaps. I am not ruling out that some later clues need to be found via BOTG only though either.

      “Go to the first clue, and then the clues are consecutive after that.” Does this mean we need to physically go to the first clue to solve this thing? Difficult but not impossible.

      • Aaron, doesn’t it seems odd to you that recently Forrest has stated Six Questions with Forrest Fenn and The Thrill of the Chase Treasure Hunt: Double Charmed

        BY JENNY KILE · FEBRUARY 4, 2018

        “It helps to know something about Rocky Mountain geography when making plans to search for my treasure. Rocking chair ideas can lead one to the first few clues, but a physical presence is needed to complete the solve. Google Earth cannot help with the last clue.”

        Jenny said, “Are you aware of any more progress made past the first two clues? Have searchers homed into other clues or words in the poem? Have searchers been closer than 200 feet to the treasure?”

        “I am rarely told exactly where people are searching so I don’t know if they are getting closer or not. My gut feeling is that someone will find it this summer.f”

        This could line up with the following 2 video of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQcLGRdSI38 at 1:15 he states somebody is What?

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9czRin3Tas
        more than 2 but not in the what…..ORDER, why it rhyms with that, Order…IMO

        TT

        • Now where or what does your imagination tell you when read this:

          As I have gone alone in there

          And with my treasures bold,

          I can keep my secret where,

          And hint of riches new and old.

          This might be bigger than WWWH if you were in a tight focus with the Order of Things to follow, Geographically speaking. IMO

          TT

          • Makes me think of bells, bighorn, and 265. Leads to at of year 12016, asterisk, page 15 and few in tight focus with that.

  20. Ramblings about Brown. I have no idea what any of this means. It’s just all been thrown into the mixing pot (pressure cooker?) that is my mind.

    1. Red Black Green makes brown which is really dark orange. It only appears brown in context (as I have posted before). It’s actually Red “no Blue” Green. It can appear as yellow in the proper context (the mind can strange things with colors). There has to be something about Red Black Green and tea (unless it really is 205)

    2. Yellow and purple paint mix to make brown (different than combining light). In tea with Olga we have her resting in the blooming chamisa and mountain laurel, which are yellow and (sometimes) purple. He mentions the yellow and purple flowers (or quotes containing references) in other places.

    3. Brown is capitalized. We capitalize specific things. Like the Brown Crayon. Like home of the Brave (which refer to specific brave). So, what is a specific brown that can be found on a good map? (think tribal)

    Again, I don’t know what any of it means. Tonight I’ll re-read the book and take notes. So many hints, so little information.

    WWWH and HOB are likely metaphorical and have nothing to do with water or colors and all the above is a waste of time.

    My wife insists the first clues are “suggestive” (well, TFTW doesn’t fit that solve) but I don’t know what that has to do with anything other than getting a chuckle.

    mBG

  21. Fly in the ointment: Following, I followed and that exact term defined, the or a path to the TC Question posted 6/20/2014:

    I have a question for Mr. Fenn:

    When you hid your treasures, did you take the same path that is described in the poem, or were you able to skip some of the steps because of your familiarity with the area?

    Thank you Curtis

    The clues should be followed in order Curtis. There is no other way to my knowlege.f

    If I said I followed Admiral Byrd to a place that had never been visited by man, but did not take the same route, did I follow or just arrive at Antarctica?

    Thoughts?

    TT

    • I would think your route would have to be different. I mean what are the chances of following an exact route especially on the sea with winds and all working on a sailing ship. I smoke cigars once in a while and often see how the wind blows the smoke all over the place.

    • Personally I would like to follow Fenn’s answer exactly as he said it. IMO you cannot go directly to the canyon down if you don’t start at WWWH. You cannot directly go to the home of Brown. You cannot directly go to the blaze unless you follow the creek not for the meek. You cannot directly go to the TC, never. If you want to get to the TC you have to start from WWWH, through canyon down, by putting in below the home of Brown, following the creek not for the meek, past the end which is drawing nigh, and the blaze and then to the TC (you have to be brave at the same time according to the poem), EVERY TIME. I mean it, you have to physically follow the same path every time if you want to get to Fenn’s hiding place and claim the TC, IMHO.
      — MK

      • Yes sir,
        I think it’s best to follow Fenn’s advice and start at WWWH and go from there.
        I’m not sure about “following the creek not for the meek” though.

        • Hi Jake,
          Sorry, I’m refering “From there it’s no place for the meek,” and I’m taking this place to be the same creek as “no paddle creek.”
          — MK

      • MK you say, “following the creek not for the meek, past the end which is drawing nigh, and the blaze and then to the TC (you have to be brave at the same time according to the poem), EVERY TIME.”

        But what if we are no longer searching for the TC but have located it, found the treasure, and are now looking for something else? – which we were not originally looking for, nor expecting, but were offered. Doesn’t it seem odd that we must continue searching? IMO

        • Joe;

          1) The search begins with stanza #2 right?

          2) You say the search ends at the end of Stanza #4

          3) Only three stanza’s out of 6 used.

          4) Why would Forrest have written Stanza’s #5 and #6 if you find the treasure at the end of Stanza #4???

          This just makes no sense to me.

          I see stanza #1 as a prelude, and you have to use the remaining 5 stanza’s before you find indulgence and get title to the gold. JMO – JDA

          • I actually think it makes perfect sense to end at stanza 4.

            Stanzas 2-4 give landmarks and vectors. These stanzas may give you all the clues you need to get you to the exact location of the chest; however, you may not see it. Hints like ‘cold’ and ‘wood’ might actually do nothing to get to to the physical location of the chest, but may assist in unhiding it. ff has said it’s unlikely that someone get within 12 feet and not find it, but then again, he’s also said that someone that gets that far will have gotten there with confidence. It’s unlikely they’d move with confidence, get to the spot, and not turn over a log and see what’s there.

            -L

          • elpapa;

            I am not sure that I understand your logic. A clue gets you closer to the treasure, and a hint can help with the clues – Am I right? You are saying that your last clue is in Stanza #4 – Just take the chest and go in peace… and yet you say that cold and wood from stanza #6 get you closer (closer than 12′) to the chest – but isn’t that the function of a clue – getting you closer to Indulgence? A hint only helps with the clue, but you are saying that this “hint” gets you closer, NOT helping with clue #9 – I am confused – JDA

        • Hi Joe,
          There is nothing else. You’ve already found the TC. What else are you looking for, I may ask?
          — MK

    • Trick question TT. If you followed him,, you were just behind him. So you took the same path. If you are saying you just headed north following his route, you thought, then you really didn’t follow but arrived at Antarctica. You didn’t use the exact route , so you didn’t understand his. Now, to find a 10x10x4 spot that he was at in Antarctica, you might not be where you need to be, because you didn’t fully understand his path. The real start point would be Antarctica, anybody could arrive there, just not able to figure out the next steps of the old captain. Like Christmas Columbus finding America a, he just found land.

    • TT , that it could correctly be said that you followed ,if the only pathway to Antarctica was a one person tunnel?

    • TT,

      Your question is too broad to consider.
      We are told we need to have a specific starting point… right?
      This seems to be the critical criteria needed.

      So, for example, if NY is where we start and we need to take I-95 south and need to end up in FL… do I need to do that if I was coming from CA? I mean, I would have followed the directions from NY, but took a different route to get to the ending location [say I-40 E to meet I-95 S].
      IN any scenario we can think of, coming from any direction.. there are clues physically skipped if we don’t physically start were we are told to. This is a big no no from what we have been told…”The clues should be followed in order Curtis. There is no other way to my knowlege.f”
      And fenn stating; he followed the clues when he hid the chest.

      The question that has itch my britches is; how is “followed” and “lead” to be reprieved?
      A physical position at each physical location a clue represents, or a visual sighting of those places from a single spot.
      We are told; if we can’t find the chest to go back to clue 1 [WWWsH] and we need that clue or we have nothing.
      Well, why would we have to IF we know we have the [ for example ] the correct hoB or the correct process to get to that point?
      Which raises the question; what is the correct process we need to take in this endeavor.. stomp out clue references, or observe from the place the first clue brings us to?

      I can get to Antarctica by any route from anywhere… but do I need to be there-?- or does the starting point give me all that is needed.
      Eliot Quote: We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. { a subtle hint in my mind }.
      Yep, we also have the comment; paraphrasing, if you knew what hoB is, you’d go right to the chest. Well, can we really know what hoB is if we don’t have the first clue nailed down?

      Side note; It would not surprise me that some searchers possibly located / indicated hoB, NPFTM, HLnWH… but never did it the way fenn *may have* intended this all to unfold.
      I think many are target fixed [clue’s placements fixated] and might be skipping, misunderstanding [ call it what you will ] the instructions given.

      • Seeker, humor Mr Terrific here, who is in another camp, or frame of reference for this Puzzle, expressed as a Riddle, WWWH is the metaphor for the place in that other dimension, the one behind the geographical ref or In the truest sense the de·no·ta·tion which is IMO ff clever use of tears, memories and a place in time that was important to him.

        I think the treasure may be found this summer probably in late June, it will require understand two paths, one is geo. in nature and one is retro in nature.

        TT

  22. I believe –
    that it isn’t where you take off from nor where you land, but what you do when you get there.

    Just IMO.

    • Yes, precisely www. You and I are on the same page again. That is why I believe finding HOB may require BOTG. In my Army ROTC days we always focused on “actions on the objective.” I think they call it “actions on contact” now but… The reality is because of that training I always speak of and focus on actions at the objective. IMO

  23. Well, next week I’ll go to my third BOTG and as usually in my search “I know” what is the hoB (if I don’t know I don’t have my BOTG).
    I think all searchers want to know what is hoB and start to think about BOTG only when they solved this very hard clue. I’m not sure that I really solved ff hoB riddle but when I have tested the solution on my son (13 years old i.e. still a kid) he did it very fast – Forrest said that kids will solve it easy.
    I hope that he was right about it.

    • Many kids (of various ages) are being brainwashed into a state of almost total confusion. It would be a rare teenager who is capable of solving correctly for hoB. Good luck to you and your son, and please don’t ignore the nouns in the poem . . . (oops, I hope I haven’t said too much). As always, IMO.

      • Hi Tall Andrew,
        thanks for your wise advice!
        Unfortunately you are right about modern teenagers and their addiction to “virtual adventures”. If TC not found in next 20 years we will see significant decay in searcher’s number. Instead of real BOTG next generation will send long-range drones equipped with ground-penetrating radar 🙂 Recently Forrest said that such drones will help to find TC.

  24. Put in below the home of Brown.
    This circumstantial evidence may only be understood by those that think the pibthoB is on the Madison as the 3rd clue and the 1st 2 clues are up the Firehole and not the Gibbon.

    Brown
    Bro w n
    Bro – Three Bro thers Mountains
    3 letters – Bro – third clue
    4th letter in BroWn = W = West (towards West Yellowstone 4th clue hint.)
    5th letter in BrowN = N = North (head north up NIGH 5th clue hint)

    Put in The Madison River below Three Brothers Mountains and let the river take you down stream West till you get to the border of YNP and West Yellowstone, this is no place for the meek.
    1K ft away is North Intrastate Gallatin Highway = nigh.

    Does this make sense?

    • Kinda Jake, but why couldn’t lil Indi make it to Brothers Mountains? Something at the third clue makes it so a child cannot go on alone. Unless you interpret differently then all sounds okay to me. Just what other capitalized word are you going to use next to get clues 6-9?

      • I don’t give little indy any credence because Jenny conjured her up in her mind, therefore whatever answer Fenn gives is an answer to a hypothetical. Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer.

        Throw the child comment out the window as well.

        As far as the 6th goes, just take the 1st letter of the 11th line and the last letter of that line before the word “creek”.
        You get “T” and “r” then the word creek. Fill in the space between the letters of the name of a creek that is between West Yellowstone and Bozeman or the 4 corners area. Lots of creeks but which one begins with a “T” and ends in “r” ? pretty easy to figure out – up your creek –

        I may disclose 7, 8 and 9 which is a doozy but not until I go there.
        If you email me, I will tell you.

        • I’m actually with you on the lil indi thing. She’s a little older now, makes no difference.
          Yes, I can see your possibles possible. Using the poem to solve for clues, why not. The write up would be different then the ol’ guess a wwwh and give the History lesson on why.
          Seeker might think you are force fitting the 6th clue to fit though, but, sometimes coincidences pan out. Especially if there are enough of them. When you headed out Jake? I’ll shoot you an email, need to do a little work first.

          • There are 3 movements in drawing a B.
            Straight line up or down – l
            Two arcs with the openings pointing left on top of eachother meeting the line top to bottom -3

            If you take the 1st 3 letters of the 1st 3 words in this line and overlay them: Put in below the home of Brown.
            You get a “B” P I b

            There are 3 words before “the” and 3 words after.
            There are 24 letters in this line and when divided by 3 = 8. This is the 8th line in the poem.

            After Brown is the 3rd period in the poem.
            There are only 3 capped B’s in the poem and Brown is one of them.

            This is how you stretch a tangent.

          • Jake,

            The reason little Indy can’t get by clue three hoB is because it’s not on a map, period. This place is not listed as hoB, but it is. To understand how it is you need to understand the place it’s at. This is what I have come to find.

            By the way did you pi_s Seeker off? I see you called him out on not having a search area.

            He had asked me a question and I replied today but haven’t seen him. Ok just messing with ya. I know you say what you think and that’s ok.

            You have caught me off guard a time or to but I’ve been at this to long to care what others think. I know what I know and believe what I believe and like who I like. Guess you’re one I like but don’t let go to your head, hell I like most people I meet until they really pis_ me off.LOL

            Good luck Jake.

            Bur

          • If I were to buy into the little indy statement just for argument sake, I would say you are right that PIBTHOB is the 3rd clue and is not *labeled* on any map as “Brown”.
            Do you agree with the extra detail I added?

            It’s funny how Fenn has the 1st 2 clues statement parallel the little indy statement. Makes you wonder how easy it is to figure the 1st 2 clues.

            Seeker is fine and won’t be the last time I pee someone off. Yes, I say mostly what I think and I think most people should be that way. I think the truth is the only way and unfortunately it hurts but I would rather have honest feedback than the phony ones any day. At least you know where that person is coming from 🙂

            I respect and like a person more for their honesty even if it’s at my expense as opposed to a phony.

            I like and respect you too Bur and others that speak their mind. I try not to take anything personal here seeing it’s all about the Chase and really doesn’t represent their lives and how they really are as a whole human sapien.

          • I myself think there is 2 HOB’S in the poem. The first
            one is irrelevant . Could be the big tree or something
            just it was Perfect for the poem. Why can’t you just go
            from the canyon to the put in the boats. clue 3 to me.
            At clue 6 it starts complication. with its introduction.
            Probably the reason it is a capital B. The rest is an
            odd arrangement to me. I think I understand the reason
            for it all. Or I just don’t . I still have questions if this is
            for real or not. I thought a first BOTG in September
            For me way cool vacation just to have an adventure.
            Decided not too. Not trying to cause trouble on the
            blog by posting again. I missed what happened.
            Plan on waiting a few more years and see what happens. Seems like every where has been thought of
            and most searched. I guess they needed to know they
            had solved it first rather than guessing about possibilities
            and unable to locate it.
            Any ways I think the HOB is really irrelevant. if he told
            you it would not help but if he told you the other one
            you may be able to work things out after months of
            trying to understand why.
            something different for the blog. Or maybe not after
            9 years. Just wanted to try and post again.
            Good Luck..

          • Jake, I can stretch tangents too.

            In 6 (or 1/4) of the lines in the poem the 9th letter is T.
            In three of those lines the letter before it is I.
            The 9th letter of the alphabet is I.
            Together I and T make up would could be the most important word in the poem.

          • Okay Jake, 24 letters in that line, “H” being the middle, or the 12th letter. “H” is the 8th letter of the alphabet. The next letter in the line is “E”. “E” is the 5th letter of the alphabet, 8+5=13, which “E” is the 13th letter of this line. Spells “HE”.
            “HE” put in below the home of Brown.
            It’s not us who need to “put in”, it was f. “HE” is observing from the canyon on what “HE” did, not telling us what we need to do, but just stating a fact.
            There are 24 letters in this line. 24th letter is “X” in the alphabet. Home of Brown is where “X” is. The chest. Since this is the 8th line of poem, this then cannot be a clue this early in the poem. (lol, worked out pretty good, first try).:)

          • I see you’re still in extended mod.
            24 letters. What number is between 2 and 4?
            3 as in the third missing clue that many have not gotten.

            I’ll bet the house this is the 3rd clue.

          • Put in below – 3 words
            home of Brown – 3 words
            “the” (3 letter word) seems unnecessary.

          • Simplify, Yes.
            I’ve had my PIBTHOB spot for 2+ years now and was just fooling around with some coincidences the other day to see if there is some sort of confirmation in where I think that spot is correct.

            What I have found out above is way after the fact of finding that spot and in no way led me to choose this spot seeing it was there years ago in my solve(s).

            My solve(s) are very simple and many have said too simple.

            I haven’t seen your HOB idea here JimB…..
            Clear the waters!

          • IMO, My HOB is a rustry brown structure (not a building) that has been around for over 100 years, and has had money earmarked for the preservation of it. There are also two other things next to it that could easily be considered a HoB, and still lead to the same location. The unpopular home of brown trout. The big rusty thing. and a cow camp home of brown (fawn) colored cow?

            All in an area that was discussed in the book, with some subtle and off the wall hints from the book confirming NPUYC. Of course I hope I am not having confirmation bias. I recognized my HoB after I remembered a picture of an extremely similar structure from his once upon a while book, in a story that he covered in two books.

            BOTG in June, and I will be flying my plane there

          • Thanks for sharing that JimB.
            I hope you came to that spot after solving the 1st 2 clues.
            I’m not particularly crazy about it being a structure unless it’s natural.

            Confirmation bias? I think most here had that at one time or another.

          • Yes, definitely after my first two clues were “solved.” I wasn’t either on the “structure” but when rereading The Totem Cafe Caper, and Looking for Lewis and Clark, I by happenstance found a “Good Map” that has the title of something Fenn directly stated in his book. On that map, is my HoB, NPFTM, NPUYC (with a hint in Totem Cafe Caper). That NPUYC / HLWH describes something that didnt exist when he was a kid- “The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might still exist in 100 years”

            These next clues that I could tie to subtleties in the book lead me to believe this is the correct HoB. What I like most about these clues I Tie to the book… I wasn’t looking for them. I was looking for things to confirm my HoB

          • JimB;

            From the “Cheat Sheet” – There is this: “I said on the Today show that the treasure is not associated with any structure. Some people say I have a desire to mislead. That is not true. There are no notes to be found or safety deposit boxes to be searched. The clues can lead you to the treasure, and it will be there waiting when you arrive.”

            Regarding a structure, there is this:

            1)The ‘home’ of Brown might not relate to any structure

            In Cynthia Meachum’s book is the quote of her talking to Forrest:

            “When I discussed the CCC cabin as being the home of Brown, he immediately said, “don’t you remember, I said it can’t be associated with any structure.””

            This statement seems to confirm the ‘home’ is not a kind of structure to be looking for.

            Although the clue, “No need to dig up the old outhouses, the treasure is not associated with any structure”, was given on March 27th (2013) on the Today Show, it wasn’t clear all that Forrest was referring to. (https://www.today.com/video/new-clue…nt-23580739626)

            Cynthia’s statement seems to suggest Forrest was referring to all 9 clues in the poem (or at least the hoB). This can also be supported by a question/answer posted on MW:

            “Mr. Fenn, when you said not associated with any structure did that mean all 9 clues or just where the chest sits? Thanks, d.”

            “Yes d, it means the treasure is not hidden in or about a structure. Google “structure” for more information.f .”

            You should take note that Forrest says “ANY” structure – Just sayin JDA

          • JDA,
            I hadn’t seen that quote about no structure at all.

            I had always relied on “Yes d, it means the treasure is not hidden in or about a structure. Google “structure” for more information.f .”

            Although like I told Jake the area has 3 things I could consider HoB, and only one is a structure.

          • Jim B

            Remember, Cynthias statement is second-hand, although many (including me) think that Cynthia is a very reliable source – JDA

          • I think your using the right materials and in a good way.
            TTOTC hints to help with the clues in the poem and a good map and I noticed you didn’t add any BS about SB’s which I think could muddy the waters further.

            I like Looking For Lewis And Clark, Flywater and In Love With Yellowstone as my hints seeing they give you a vast area and no pinpoint location of the treasure or any particular clue although there may be clues in these areas.

            Getting the first 2 clues before PIBTHOB is also paramount instead of just looking for HOB first then reverse engineering.

            I like the Gallatin National Forrest map as my good map.

            It’s nice to find something different that may be more relevant than what you were looking for. I think a tiny bit of luck (not much) may help in solving this.

        • Jake-
          Agreed on SB’s and not looking for HoB first I think a generic HoB corn be made specific if you know the direction of travel and a an approximate distance. It’s interesting to read the book and see where he talks about things being near/not far when they are farther away than what the consensus on TFTW is. Regardless, I like this as my HoB and my NPUYC HLWH because you would pretty much have to follow the clues to the treasure IMIO I’d you started in West Yellowstone. There is no other way (unless you count a helicopter or bushwhacking)

  25. Has anyone considered Australia/New Zealand as the “home of Brown?”
    Put in below could be the “down under.”
    Just a thot……

        • wwwamericana,

          I believe you are getting away a little to far from the Rockies north of Santa Fe.

          But if you feel like it’s a track to take, go for it. Just sayin.

          Good luck,
          Bur

        • 180 degrees – could be the “Outback”
          I don’t believe he says the clues are confined to the Rockies – only the treasure. So….why not look at the Big Picture???

          • You don’t seem to have any idea what the BIG picture really is, do you?
            — MK

          • wwwamericana – I did a 180°, also, when I read about Admiral Byrd’s Hollow Earth Theory and Lewis Carroll’s Gravity Elevator. And Forrest’s story about the mirror. And Forrest’s comment about a searcher using math to find the hidey spot, and digging down through Hebgen Lake to China.

            How deep is a hole, Forrest?

            Why I put the Chinese Yuan symbol across the bottom of a similar topic post: ¥.

            I am the Queen of going off on tangents, Jake, as was my namesake, Elizabeth I, but Charles I funded the circumnavigation of the Earth by Ferdinand Magellan, a Portuguese ‘tan gent’, who was the ‘lead dog’ for the discovery of many cultures of Brown people:
            https://mapofthemonth.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/world-explorers.jpg

            He sailed right through my -111,-44 degrees mirror coordinates for my hidey spot. And so did Scott, on one of his Antarctic expeditions.

            If you go off on a tangent to a circle, where to you eventually end up?

  26. I am still going with Picaris Pueblo.
    It is the only place with rainbows using the same colors as Olga’s tea.
    THAT is the end of Fenn’s Rainbow.

    On the other hand, I went up to Tea Kettle Rock yesterday.
    It was beautiful. The road was good for a compact car to travel on.
    The funny thing is that there was a nice crawl space beneath it.
    If it wasn’t next to the road it would have made a good hiding place for the chest.
    https://i.pinimg.com/474x/14/e6/75/14e6754aaec56e163431439c8e9f0ff1–travel-ideas-rocks.jpg

    • Michael,
      What a cool rock, thanks. I’m going to have to head out there to check it out next time I’m on the back road from Cuba.

    • I figured that driving up to Cuba was the fastest route. But driving down 126 from NM4 is more fun.
      From the McDonald’s in Cuba it is about 23 miles up to Tea Kettle Rock. From there you can go down to the Rio Puerco Gorge and marvel at all of the water falls. I Iinked it to my name above.

      • OT, but Michael – did you drive 126 from NM4 north/west to Cuba (or at least to FR 103, which I presume is what you took up to Tea Kettle)? When I drove 126 from Cuba heading east/south to NM4 two or three years ago, the packed dirt surface beyond Rio las Vacas Campground was deeply rutted and rather difficult to navigate in spots. Have they leveled those out? Thanks for any update.

        • 126 from 7 springs lake is hard pack dirt. It can get sandy in a couple of areas. Just be sure to travel in summer when it is dry.
          Always have a shovel when traveling in the mountains. I prefer to use a hydraulic floor jack when changing a tire.
          Over the years I have lost mufflers, oil pans and tires when going too fast on rutted roads. I have learned to drive them with caution, or avoid them.
          Anyway…126 is good, and most of 103 is good. I haven’t gone up from Coyote in years, so I can’t verify that route.

    • Beautiful country. But I hear that Forrest had to go all the way to Wyoming or Montana to find a special place since NM is just a barren wasteland. Nothing to see here folks, move along. 🙂

      • JW;

        Have you ever been to New Mexico? I would say “NO” – from your comment. New Mexico has some absolutely beautiful country.

        I do believe that the treasure chest (Indulgence) is in Wyoming, but I also believe that where it is (in Wyoming) might remind Forrest of some of the beauty to be found in New Mexico. JMHO – JDA

        • JDA,
          Unfortunately the emoji I put at the end only displayed as a square. It would have made my attempt at sarcasm a bit clearer. I’ve now had a few conversations on this blog with Michael about some of our favorite places in NM, and I really appreciate the pictures he posts from his travels in the area (click his links, it’s worth it). My tongue in cheek comment at the end of our conversation was a lame attempt to gently mock those who think that Forrest would have had to travel far to find a special place.

        • JW;

          Sorry I missed the emoji – and the tongue-in-cheek remark. I will try to pay better attention in the future. NM IS beautiful – JDA

          • It sure is! But I have to confess I thought the same thing, that it was a Barren Wasteland before I moved here. Now that I’ve explored much more of it, it’s absolutely stunning!

  27. Just a thought on home of Brown.
    The Old and Middle English name for Elk is El. El means brown. FF said he hid the TC in summer. The calving season for elk is in the summer. Many calving areas are at higher elevations, and off limits to humans in the summer during calving, so you could put in below the home of brown.

    • that is an interesting theory. Elk have a wide range in the rocky mountains. Based upon the most recent surveys, the New Mexico Department of Game and Fish estimate that there are approximately 70,000 elk in the state. Elk typically occupy the mountainous regions of New Mexico. Primary elk habitats include the north-central portion of the state along the Sangre de Cristo and Jemez Mountain ranges, the southwest region, and the southcentral portion of the State along the Sacramento Mountains. I know people that go into the mountains specifically to pick up antlers to make decorations with them. It would be tough to pin point a single place that would be the home of elk. But I will google it to find a place name.

  28. Thats interesting… so, if you are ‘taking it in the canyon down”… heading toward the canyon floor… maybe turnoff onto a ledge trail above the floor but below the El. Too simple?

  29. Hello fellow searchers. My two cents.

    I was reading here as my HoB is my one worry spot in my solve. After reading some of your posts I am not quite so bothered by it now. Let me explain how I came upon it.

    I remember something I read in which FF had stated that it would take “boots on the ground” and a “knowledge of the area” to solve the clues as a map couldn’t solve them all.

    When I went to my WWWH and then took into the canyon down I stopped and read every little historical sign they had posted on the road. One gave me the story of an event that had happened that was a possible Brown. A little research and I believed it a good fit. What is bothersome is there is no exact place more of a line between two points where this event occurred somewhere.

    Now like I said I have solves for the rest. So I like the idea that HoB isn’t an exact spot. As far as my Put In, with HoB as a reference area per se No Place for the Meek gives me the solve for the Put In.

    Just my opinion.

  30. I wish to violate one of Dal’s rules, just a little, but it might make a few people think about staying inside the box, not a cardboard box but a geographical box.

    This Brown Question seems to be the biggest crap shoot of the entire chase, now since Fenn has alluded that no one has got it right IMO and does not disclose it in his books etc, that leads me to think it is a co ordinate term, so bear with me here: the Longitude and Latitude of Too Far too Walk map has 4 boundaries or borders, the big picture, they are on the east, 104.0410 degrees, on the west 116.050 degrees in the south boundary 35.7500 degrees and in the north 49.0000 degrees at the Canada Border.

    It could be possible that below means south of say a place like Browns Canyon or Browns Mountain or many other B places, but if one has solved the co ordinate the proper WWWH latitude which could be an east to west dimension, a tangent line drawn to intersect a general solve, if you will that is near the blaze, you get the idea, its hard to see but possible.

    So as we all do anyway, lets take a guess for our location for WWWH then conclude that since the term Put in below was used, Forrest means down, just as canyon down means below, but add to that idea HOB is below and is down as in south ..right, therefore WWWH is or could be an east west tangent co ordinate, HOB a north south co ordinate.

    That stares us in the face because of this comment IMO from ff “It seems logical to me that a deep thinking treasure searcher could use logic to determine an important clue to the location of the treasure. Is someone doing that now and I don’t know it? It’s not what they say on the blogs that may be significant, it’s what they whisper. f”

    Logic, is the science of deduction, dialectics, expressed in geography and navigation by degrees of latitude and longitude, ultimately this location will it is determined by an position on a map of the Rockies, to the 4th digit.

    Some where in the construct of the poem there exists all the elements for the correct co ordinates and those numbers will be between 104.0400 degrees east, 116.50 degrees west and 37.7500 degrees south and 49 degrees north, that is not an opinion it is a fact.

    TT

    • That is assuming a lot there TT. I do agree with your evaluation of coordinates, but that is a huge area. I also don’t think “guessing” is involved to get wwwh. Here’s a thought. Do you think a detective would have every clue to find a killer? Maybe some, but not all. But could still find a killer. So, do you think you need every clue to find the chest?
      F said we will follow all the clues, that doesn’t mean we will solve every possible clue, right? Especially if the answer to some of the clues is not furnished by f, considering he is the only one that knows.
      The only important clue is the last, that’s not saying that the clues are not important, just that there will be no choice in your path you take and finding clues. We could figure clues out BotG, or at least some of them, they would be obvious. The main point being, with hoB so early in the chase, and if knowing hoB you would go right to the chest, then why not just stop there? If we could go right to the chest, then what do we need all the other clues for? Just the last, right? That alone tells me that hoB is not a clue. It’s more an observation of f seeing where the chest is.
      If you have the right spot, can find out, and find wwwh, and start at wwwh, the path you take will cover all clues. Important or not.
      It’s more likely that if you have found coordinates, then they would be for a spot towards the end. 7th, 8th clue area. So much could still go wrong from just the first clue, as we already know. If, and I think there is, there are coordinates put in the poem in a subtle way, then they wouldn’t be for the start but more towards the end. Not enough room in the poem to have all these coordinates all over the place, but that is my opinion.
      One definition to whisper as a “noun”, (best not to exclude any nouns), is “hint”. Could he be saying that it’s the hints that are the “tell all”? Maybe.
      With our path set in stone, and if it is correct, do we really need to care about hoB, the blaze, the third clue, how far we are walking, etc…? The path will cover all that, it’s the last clue, as he has said, that will find the chest. So, Back to coordinates, I would think that those will get you to clue 8. All, IMO.

      • I wonder if it would be possible to find the chest without even figuring out hoB and some of the other clues. If someone were in the right general area and just happened to find the blaze could they then find the chest?

          • Searchers have been within 200 feet without figuring out hoB. That means they were probably in the right general area. Is it possible that someone could stumble across the “blaze” and not recognize it as such without having solved the other clues.

          • If the blaze is not visible from 200 feet then perhaps the other clues are needed to get the searcher to travel that 200 feet. Otherwise they just wonder around, possibly looking for HoB.

          • MM;

            I think that it is possible for someone to see the blaze, and not recognize it. Let’s say, for example, that your blaze is a “Big Rock”. You may have seen this “Big Rock” a hundred times, and not recognized it as the blaze, when in fact it could be the blaze.

            I am postulating that it is not the “Big Rock” that is the blaze, but rather its shadow.

            Note that the cover of tftw shows the shadow of a man, and not the man himself, or even of the man AND his shadow. Is Forrest telling us that it is the SHADOW of the man that is most important? More important than the man himself. I think so – JMO – JDA

        • Hi MM;

          I think that Forrest said that you need to follow the clues in consecutive order for a reason. I have been in my area for 42 months (Search only during summer) Having the blaze alone, for me is not enough. JDA

          • JDA, your idea that that the blaze is a shadow of some big rock is very interesting. It remember me one very old western “Mackenna’s Gold” (1969). Forrest could catch the idea for “shadow blaze” from this moment of movie:
            “When the first beam of sunlight shines down, it sets off an optical reaction that startles the horses. Then the shadow of the pinnacle of “Shaking Rock” starts to move. Watching this, MacKenna for the first time believes in the legend. The shadow eventually ends at a hidden passageway cutting into a mountainside. They ride through it and emerge on the other side.”
            Well, if your idea of “shadow blaze” is correct we will need to know exact time when the shadow ends at TC location. This location pointed by the shadow end will also depends on seasons.
            JDA, recently you cited Forrest:
            “The blaze is a physical thing. It’s not theoretical. Boy did I give you a big clue (Forrest chuckles after making the statement). That’s not a clue. It doesn’t take a scientist to figure out a blaze is something you can look at … A horse has a blaze on its forehead here… ah, ah, there are rocks that have a white face that could be a blaze… ” f
            Do you think that a shadow is a physical thing? Of course, you can look at shadow but it’s continuously moving and can disappear any time because of clouds.

          • Hi Andy;

            I just looked up the word “Physical” – Here is some of what I got:
            relating to things perceived through the senses as opposed to the mind; tangible or concrete.
            “pleasant physical environments”
            synonyms: material, substantial, solid, concrete, TANGIBLE, palpable, VISIBLE, real,ACTUAL
            “everything physical in the universe”

            I put the important words in CAPS – these words seem to say that a shadow is a physical “something” it is Tangible, can be seen, and is an actual “thing”

            So, Yes, I think that it works – JMO – JDA

        • MM, we already discussed this many times here and main conclusion was that hoB is most important clue in poem. If you don’t know what is the hoB in poem it’s useless to start BOTG (IMO).
          Clues after hoB are also important but you there are just coded local road map i.e. Forrest coded direction to hide spot and obstacles/barriers between parking lot start and final destination.
          Blaze is a point where searcher must stop and look around for TC. Most likely you can’t find TC visually – as JDA suggested TC is “sepulchered” (other word for buried?). Thus, to find TC you need to do something like “turn rotten logs over to see what’s under them”.

          • Thanks Andy. I agree with JDA that the chest may be “sepulchered”. HoB is an important clue but I don’t think it’s the most important (or second most important since WWWH is the most important).

        • MM, very possible. I don’t think hoB is even a clue, so yes, possible to not know hoB and still find the chest. It may even be possible to not identify the blaze correctly and still find the chest, IMO. Especially if “marvel gaze” is actually a noun/thing. Since the blaze is a “way point”, it would figure that there are multiple ways of finding it. Meaning BotG, coordinates, or identifying marvel gaze, since you could look up from whatever marvel gaze is and find the blaze.
          If the poem solved gives the “x” on a map. And, the path I take to that “x” has 8 clues, then to me it is just getting to that spot that is important. I may or may not see all the clues or identify them, but I can still find the chest as long as my solve for the 9th clue is correct. The start point is then obvious, wwwh, but the spot is my destination. My path may lead to going south in a canyon, and consist of a long walk, and have some kind of border/barrier to cross, doesn’t matter. What matters is that “X” on my map I need to get to. If f didn’t give the answer to some clues, meaning there is no solve for them, then they would logically be observation clues, requiring BotG. All these scenarios are possible, so hoB, lol, just not that important as people may think. IMO of course.

  31. Being a relative newcomer, can someone explain why Joe Brown Putin/Creek is not considered a good home of Brown? Just too well searched by locals? Tom Miner Basin, Rock creek, etc. Is that area just too “ranched”, populated to contain Forrest’s special place? Check out the view from Ferrell lake.

    • meBigGuy,

      Haven’t heard about any quest there, but it does have Banana Peel Dam near by. So to me “grab every banana” if you have solves for it.

      Good luck,
      Bur

    • meBigGuy – I don’t see any reason why it can’t be. If Joe Brown Creek is your home of Brown, then would that make Sphinx Creek be your next step in the sequence, since that is the next creek downstream from Joe Brown? I see that there’s both a Sphinx Creek and an adjacent Sphinx Mountain so that could be your heavy loads and water high?

      It looks like the areas along Joe Brown Creek, Rock Creek, Tom Miner Creek are all on privately owned & fenced off land (not a deal-breaker according to what Forrest has said, but I generally stay away from trespassing on private land as a personal rule), but Sphinx Creek area looks like open game, and it appears that there are some trails passing through the area. I would not be at all surprised if that area’s been searched before, but maybe it’s worth a look to see if anything was missed?

    • That entire area from Gardiner to Carbella has been extensively explored over the years. Of course, that doesn’t rule out a solve in that area. If you think you have a good solve, go for it.

    • meBigGuy, Are you just guessing or did the poem tell you that? If you are just looking at a map and matching up names, then I wouldn’t put to much into it. If solving the poem put you at that spot, then who knows, could be. Being a relative newcomer, I would say to try to find a way to solve the poem. Put any maps away for now and find your special way of solving the poem. That is the only way to find a spot. Any guessing, and you can police yourself in that matter, is just wasting time. All, IMO.

    • meBigGuy,

      I ran across some post from searchers from around 2013 I believe, maybe later, who talked about the Joe Brown put in as hoB and then built solves from that. But understand, the search area is vast, and even if others have gone up Tom Miner’s or other places it does not mean the chest is not there, just that they did not find it. Remember people have been within 200 feet of the chest and not found it.

      Good luck with your hunting.

  32. Does anyone think that HOB could have something to do with FF working in BRONZE ? I sure have a reason to think that .

    • It’s certainly possible. A home of bronze could be a place described as a foundry or furnace, or maybe a gallery that deals in bronze works … although I would think an *actual* gallery or bronzework business would not stand the test of time, so more likely a natural feature somehow connected to these ideas, or a place named in such a fashion; place names sometimes last long after the inspiration for the name has been forgotten.

    • I do, JPE. That capital B has never made sense to me except as a way to make the possessive “Brown’s”, which sounds kinda like bronze. Still doesn’t get me anywhere, hope you have a better idea.

      • Kate . i believe HOB to be a very large place , or i guess it is an object also , you just have to know where to PUT IN under it .

  33. One of the best clues for HOB I’ve found is Chapter 1 of TFTW. Pay attention to part where he is searching for his old toys (treasures old) buried next to the remnants of his childhood home. It’s an analogy for both HOB and for the TC itself. He is acting out the search for us and giving some solid clues.
    He provides the direction of the TC in relation to your HOB.
    The whole poem is based around personal experiences and sometimes objective ones as well.

  34. about the home of Brown. Has any considered the possibility that Brown is
    an acquaintance of Fenn. Such as Sam Brown, who is also an artist/collector
    of about same age. Sam Brown Art, very close to Rio Chama , south of Abiquiu
    NM. They have to know each other being in the same business, big on Indian
    art and collectibles. Sam Brown Art House 189 Co Rd 155 Abiquiu NM 85710.
    That’s how acquaintances would refer to each other, by their surname.
    Plus interesting address, House 189. Whoever heard of that. Well house
    and home are of course similar. Looking at google earth there are Indian ruins
    across the river from his house. White rock also. I just started looking at this Saturday
    and my first thought was Fenn is saying that the Abiquiui dam is going to
    break some day and obliterate everything in its way. This high waters and heavy
    loads of debris. No more paddling upstream. Btw I believe it is quite a recreation
    area for rafting. Cliffs along river. Could have some reference to owls, either
    a rock formation or art on cliffs. Someone might want to check it out,
    Of course I saw the agreed upon facts that said the beginning point cannot be
    a dam, but I don’t know where they got that. Everything else falls into place.
    Canyon leading from dam, house of brown, river, distances from canyon to Brown.
    just got to find the blaze (owl). Well anyways that’s my two cents worth.

  35. I think FF is an acquaintance of Brown but was introduced many years ago , and though they never spoke a word , they occupied the same spot , as if WATCHING EACH OTHER .

  36. Could a pueblo/mission be the Home of Brown…? Franciscan friars were of the order Brown Franciscans (wore brown robes). It would qualify as a proper noun but would also be a place that would last 100+ years (historic site). Would also explain “no place for the meek” if the pueblo had been part of the revolts (late 1600’s). Would also satisfy ff’s archeology interest. Most of these sites are also located next to creeks, canyons, and hot springs.

    • mick- absolutely a puelo/mission can be the home of Brown IMO.
      that is, i mean, if it is treasure you seek.
      as for the chest though, the HOB would be the Byrd Naturalist cabin.
      and for the bronze box of goodies, well thats another matter entirely.
      i think.

  37. Using my imagination, I just had a major breakthrough but then the phone rang and I lost my train of thought. Do y’all think that possibly the HOB might be somewhere far, far away?

    • I imagine far, far away is too far for my solve IMO. I guess one would have to define “far” (at or to a great distance) if its distance we are actually talking about; However, my HOB is still too far away.

  38. We have been working hard on finding explanations for Forrest Fenn’s poem. During winter 18/19 we’ve got our solution – it is consistent and quite simple.

    We were (and still are) that conviced about it, that we planned and undertook a treasure-hunting-expedition in New Mexico in May 19. This was not a one-day-trip for us – we live in Switzerland! Four guys of us had some fun and exciting days in the Rocky Mountains. Our goal was to find the last clue (we know that it is necessary to be on site for that) – and of course – to find the treasure.

    Unfortunately we didn’t find it. We underestimated the weather in May in the mountains of New Mexico. There was still too much melting water in ‚our‘ canyon and we even got some snowfall. Althought we reached the place that we wanted, it was not possible to search there as intensive as it would have been necessary.

    We really would like to go back for another attempt. But for us it’s just too expensive and time-consuming to go for another searching-expedition.

    So we decided to share our solution with the community in this blog. We will add some Videos that describes it clue by clue – and parallel we complete our treasure map step by step. We hope to give some inspiration. And we hope to get a kickback from the one who finds the treasure due to our solution :-).

    We just published our solution about ‘Home of Brown’ on our site. Have a look on https://www.get-it-now.ch

    Be careful when you search along our solution at ‚our place‘. We think that the place is not really too dangerous, but there can obviously bee too much water after the snowmelt and after heavy rainfalls.

  39. Brown house – how many versions have already been said, I’ve thought why the forest chose a house, a lot can be done for it, if for example he said a mountain, it would be obvious where to look, so it’s not casual that the brown house is, I’m more inclined what is Mount Browns

    • John;

      You indicated in one of your posts that you had a problem with translation. This may be the case here. The poem says HOME of Brown, not HOUSE of Brown. Maybe there is no difference in translation in your native language, so it may not be a big deal. Just thought I would mention it – JDA

  40. Because I do not feel like reading through the 1000 posts here, can someone say whether or not this has been discussed as the “home of brown.”

    Going from Cody, Wyoming due to his reference of the Buffalo named Cody and the Buffalo Bill Center heading west. WWWH being the warm spring in Cody, then the home of Brown being across Buffalo Bill Reservoir. Using his reference to many characters as well as Marvel in the poem, the Wheel of Wonderment is there. Wonderment, Montana was the fictional town in many marvel stories first originally appearing in…none other than…Blaze of Glory #1!!!! It is where Rachel Brown was from.

  41. I’m pretty sure that somebody has already posted something about the difference between a house and a home, but just for curiosity I tried and found this:

    “The main difference between them is that “house” is concrete. “House” refers to a building in which someone lives. In contrast, a “home” can refer either to a building or to any location that a person thinks of as the place where he lives and that belongs to him. A “home” can be a house or an apartment, but it could also be tent, a boat, or an underground cave.

    A home can even be something abstract, a place in your mind. When you say, “Let’s go home,” you are probably not talking simply about going to the physical structure where you live. You are talking about being in the special place where you feel most comfortable and that belongs to you.”

    In that sense the home of Brown may refer to the specific space or location that Brown once lived, whoever that particular Brown was. Or a specific “Brown” trout once stayed longer during its journey from a pond to a stream, maybe? Just saying.

    — MajinKing

    • MajinKing;

      If you think that it is related to something in nature, why limit yourself to Brown trout? There are tons of BROWN things in nature – Bears, Beavers, Buffalo,
      or Bison, Deer, Elk, Moose, Badgers, Eagles etc. The Rockies are “Home” to all of these, and countless others – And Forrest mentions sever of these in his writings – Just sayin’ JDA

    • Good analysis, MajinKing. It is consistent with my solution of the hoB.
      It looks like that many searchers become sceptical about hoB as very important clue but they are wrong.

    • I see what you did there MK. Are you certain that in your interpretation of what/who Brown is no specialized knowledge is needed?

      • Hi Oz10,
        Probably you can call that a specific or specialized knowledge, but you have to find out what is your own Brown (whether it is a trout, bear, bison, beaver, or buffalo or whatever) or who is your Brown.
        — MajinKing

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