Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…

pinkPlease click on the comment balloon below to contribute to the discussion of  Forrest Fenn’s Treasure Hunt. Please note that many topics have their own pages. Please scroll through the blog to see all the discussion pages. There are also stories, scrapbooks, searcher’s reports general information, tips from Forrest, a rumors blog and even email responses from Forrest. So please look around and if you want to make a comment please use the most appropriate page.




351 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…

  1. Can anyone point me in the direction of any stories where Beowulf the Alligator is mentioned? Where did he end up? Are there Scrapbooks that mention Elvis and Beowulf or any of the books?

    • Road Hawk;

      Go to Google. Type in “forrest fenn Beowulf the Alligator” (No quote marks – you will get several links – JDA

    • Down at the Shidoni Gallery sculpture garden there is an alligator. I had assumed that it was the one that F spoke about. But I may have been wrong about that assumption.

    • Good luck in your searching. Are you going to research FF’s entire history of

      Since you said “Alligator”, I was reminded that ex-auto racer Dan Gurney once manufactured a motorcycle called the Alligator. And since
      Dan starts with a “D”, it reminded me of FF’s mention of D’s (that he prayed for).

      There may be some importance, to FF, in names that involve one or more of the letter D, either capitalized or not. And since his treasure hunt is supposed (by some) to appeal to folks of all ages, I will list some names that come to mind.

      Donald Duck
      Doris Day
      Daffy Duck
      Daisy Duck
      Dudley Do-Right
      David (slayer of Goliath)
      Delilah (not that I’m purposefully on a big bible kick)
      Dam Gummint (associated with the STRUCTURE of the BLM)

      As always, IMO.

      • Don’t forget Davy Crockett and his coon-skin hat!
        Forrest had one – I believe he said his mother made it for him.

        • FF seems unusually fond of hats. I wonder why, and also
          wonder whether he mentions them in order to hint at the
          location of the TC. If this hinting exists, I don’t see it as
          being very helpful to a searcher. One reason is that I see
          hints as confirming solution to part(s) of the poem, while
          not aiding said solution. All part of my opinion.

          • Forrest knows where the chest was hidden, but he isn’t telling anyone; he’s keeping that secret under his hat.

  2. MWG and Jake,
    Reference the comments from FF about the TC being wet. I believe MWG said on Odds n Ends 182 that the interview was in February. I believe this is not correct. The interview may have been released in February but the video was done in the Fall. The leaves on the trees are turning colors.
    There was one river and adjacent creeks in the Rocky Mountains, which had a flash flood in the early fall….about the time the leaves would have been changing. The flood is what I think caused the TC to become wet.
    As always, IMO.
    Good luck and stay safe.

    • How do you know “The leaves on the trees are turning colors.”? and the “video was done in the Fall”?
      Do you have a link to that media file and other supporting evidence?

      • If I remember correctly, the video was the commercial for NM travel. FF says the treasure is wet and one of the frames has the leaves on the trees and they are changing color. The video was released at a later date, I think in the Winter. The commercial is on the web….look at the leaves and find out when the commercial was released. The commercial was released at a later date than the interview.

        • Here it a little info on the treasure being wet:

          5. Mr. Fenn,  In your interview with New Mexico True Stories, you mentioned that you know that the treasure is wet. I checked out the date of that interview and it looks like you said that in a February, which could mean that you knew that it had snowed or rained at the site of the treasure chest, or simply because of higher water. Now we are in mid-summer, and if we assume that no storms have passed through recently, would you know that the treasure is wet now? ~Thanks, B
          Yes B, physics tells me the treasure is wet. F


          • New Way,
            Since I have finished my searching (one way or the other) , I no longer feel the need for pussyfooting around.
            You might want to consider the definition for “well”; although I’m sure you won’t get much from it.

        • Just watched the New Mexico True Stories #5 video. At 1:31 into the video it shows FF walking with his dog. The leaves are changing and have also fallen on the ground. There are no leaves on deciduous trees at the height of Winter.
          The video was released in February but was obviously shot in the fall. I don’t believe the producers/directors of the video taped the scenes in the Fall and then went back to FF for comment in February. Also, most videos take time to produce, edit, schedule, etc. before releasing.
          As always, IMO.

      • MiKe – Time really passes by too quickly doesn’t it? As do old friends that slip out of our lives but not out of our memories.

      • I wonder if the interior compartment of the chest has any holes in its bottom to drain water out if that happens? It would be sensible design for a hidden treasure chest, but perhaps not for a chest designed to be kept inside likely resting on a shelf or tabletop.

    • My take on one of the possibilities as to why the treasure would be believed to be “wet” and why FF would say it was wet due to physics… when it may have been completely “dry” when placed.
      If you have a safe to store valuables, you have to keep a dessicant of some sort in the safe. If you do not, what is inside will become significantly damp even in areas of the country that are very dry.
      I would assume the chest is not air tight and the contents, due to plenty of moisture in the air at different times of the year, and the laws of physics, would create a “wet” treasure… even if only damp to the touch and not immersed in water somewhere.

  3. Does being WET have something to do with water?

    Water is not wet.

    Water is a liquid.

    When a liquid touches something it then becomes WET.

    Wet also means- silly, weak, foolish.

    The treasure was wet many years ago. But with what certainty is the treasure still remaining wet?

    Forrest mentioned the treasure Became wet at a later time than when he placed the treasure. The treasure was not wet when he hid it.

    How is all this possible?

    • Biting me in the butt isn’t it? Guess I need to turn around.
      Surprised any of those little yellow ducklings ever got a chance to grow up.
      I know of ONE that made it though.
      As always – I dunno nothing but I have an opinion. LOL

  4. Howdy all ye fine folks on Dal’s. I am thinking today is sort of special. I have taken time off from my search and have been doing some reflecting, especially today. I like what I am ‘discovering.’

    I may have fibbed in one of my last posts, though – said no more BOTG. But I believe I will get one more in here in a couple weeks in my search area. Not feeling nearly as confident in my area as before. But to satisfy my curiosity i’ve just gotta have a ‘look-see.’

    • There’s only one way to find out Joe.
      Most of us physical searchers know all about confidence especially our first.
      It’s better to go and know then not to go and never know.

    • Very cool artwork
      Interesting that the artist,s view is from
      behind Forrest. I have always viewed
      Forrest as being the man behind the
      artist. Oddly, there is a Forest Springs
      behind Artist’s Point at the Grand
      Canyon of The Yellowstone, just across
      the river from a viewpoint called the
      Grand View. Maybe just another blaze
      on the trail, or maybe just odd.

      • Odd indeed.
        Does it mean something? Or just another rabbit pulled from a hat?
        Good portrait though, even if it is from FF’s back side.
        Honest opinion here, the way FF’s elbow seems very 3 dimensional really strikes me a true talent. Nice job, Cris.

  5. If indulgence was not wet when he hid it. It is always possible that it could become wet by seasonal changes. Do you know the date of the quote? Has anyone asked him and gotten a response as to “weather” or not it is wet now or outside the month or time period he said it was wet. He knows the area probably better than anyone else. If there is watershed after winter, it might fill the “hole” or low lying area or crevice that he placed it. So it becomes wet. That water may then drain off slowly somewhere revealing the spot again. Making it difficult to be at the right place at the right time to locate it.

    • Nevin Eckernan – Did you know your name means, ‘Saintly man who lives in the corner house’?

      I agree completely with your hypothesis. From hands on experience at my hidey spot, last Sunday. Timing is everything. And WAIT is a four letter word.


    • “Mr. Fenn,
      In your interview with New Mexico True Stories, you mentioned that you know that the treasure is wet. I checked out the date of that interview and it looks like you said that in a February, which could mean that you knew that it had snowed or rained at the site of the treasure chest, or simply because of higher water.
      Now we are in mid-summer, and if we assume that no storms have passed through recently, would you know that the treasure is wet now? ~Thanks, B
      Yes B, physics tells me the treasure is wet”. f

      This should answer your question.

      Who said that it was not wet when he secreted it? It could have been wet from day one – Just sayin’ – JDA

      • The first time he mentioned the chest being wet was in 2014 when he said “it’s probably already wet…” – he probably said probably as opposed to he knows it’s wet because he didn’t want to say it is absolutely wet yet?

        • This is what I was referring to in upthread,
          “It’s PROBABLY already wet”

          Probably – almost certainly. As FAR as one knows or can tell. In all likelihood. Taking all things into consideration. The chances are.

          Why would someone make a comment like that?

          To me, IMO, by saying “It’s probably already wet” suggests that the Treasure was not wet when it was placed. It suggests to me that the Treasure BECAME wet at a later time, possibly and most likely by the creativeness of the person (Mr Forrest Fenn) who put the Treasure where it is. Also, with all that said, I believe, IMO, that the Treasure is above ground sitting in plain sight but quite possibly covered with some debris. And, being WET doesn’t necessarily mean it has something to do with water.

          Something BECOMES wet when some form of liquid touches it.

          Yes, I understand that the Treasure Chest May be wet but what exactly is the Treasure Chest?

          Is the Treasure Chest a Bronze box full of gold and jewels or is it something else?

          Yes, I understand and very well may believe the Treasure Chest might be sitting in some form of water, or an area where water is flowing into to cause the Treasure Chest to become wet BUT what other cause and effect can make something wet? Or once again, what exactly IS the Treasure Chest?

          • No need to repeat your question in the same posting.
            It has been believed for a long time that maybe there is no bronze chest of gold, jewels, etc. waiting, in the great outdoors of the Rocky Mountains, to be found by a clever solver/searcher of Fenn’s poem. It is also believed that the poem has “layers” (multiple meanings), and the word “chest” may mean various things. For example, it may suggest a slight correction — or at least an additional (optional?) place to search — in hidey space location. But if the bronze, gold, and jewels are not where the “lead dog” will be this summer, I think the “lead dog” may have good reason to let a lot of other people know some very specific details of the solve used by the “lead dog” in BOTG searching. I don’t think anybody needs more scandals in their lives anytime soon. As always, IMO.

        • It always played in my head that the man had said, the trease is still wet. I don’t know where or when I thought I heard the word still, but it could have been in my imagination. Thanks all, good information. g

          • I also thought it could mean an object of desire but cant find it now. ? g

      • JDA
        I hear ya, but why the PROBABLY comment first and then the Physics comment?

        It seems to me, IMO, that Forrest placed the Treasure where it is knowing that it would become wet at a later time. Let’s just suppose this is what happened and is true, So how is this possible?

        • Also, the line in the poem,
          “Just take the CHEST and go in peace”
          May or may not be referring to the bronze box full of gold and jewels but it very well may be referring to THE Treasure Chest.

          How is this possible?

          • I’m not sure I understand you. Would you like to explain
            what you mean? Thanks in advance.

        • Hi Pauley;

          All supposition – If the place that Indulgence is secreted is near a small rivulet, it is possible that when Forrest secreted Indulgence, it was not wet, but knowing that the little rivulet was there, Forrest could guess that some time after he secreted it, that it would become wet. – Therefore the PROBABLY – Just a guess.

          Regarding the CHEST – not being Indulgence. My interpretation is to take YOUR chest – your physical self away from the area that you found Indulgence and “Go in peace.” “Go in peace” could be a direction as well as a state of mind. Think “Peace Symbol” –
          Can “The Treasure Chest” indicate the “Self”? and all of its memories and intellect? Maybe – JMO – JDA

          • JDA
            Wow, clever about the Peace symbol, good stuff.

            For me,
            THE CHEST = THE BREAST – To Move Forward.
            THE CHEST = THE TRUNK – Tributaries, some kind of water source.

            Basically, I believe when the person finds the Blaze and looks down, there should be something that the person will follow to the Treasure that is referred to as the CHEST. As if the CHEST is some kind of trail or walkway or road or path or waterway or creek or SOMETHING that should be followed to the area of TREES (In the Wood) that encapsulates the Treasure.

          • Hi Pauley;
            I like your chest = trunk = tributaries.

            I have been following a small rivulet when I get to the blaze. I know (like all water) that it HAS to flow in a downward direction. It will be natural to follow this little rivulet downward once I get to the blaze.

            Thanks for the chest = trunk – tributaries though. That is helpful

            Have a GREAT day Pauley T – JDA

          • Hi again Pauley T.

            Looking up TRUNK – I also found this:
            : a usually major channel or passage (such as a chute or shaft)

            I like your tributaries better though, although this definition just might work – PEACE to Ya Pauley – JDA

          • Pauley,

            If I’m getting the gist of what your saying… a searcher would need to “take the chest and go” by means if traveling the ‘chest as tributary.’
            Ok… then would the same line of thinking include “go in’ peace” as a reference to that tributary-?- as a name, as a feature of some kind -?- I mean, what or how would “peace” be usable?

            Or could peace be a reference to the idea of, “As i have gone alone ‘In There’ to be a hiding place with some type of cover, rather than the idea of buried?

            I like this style of analyzing this line, rather than meaning, we need to leave fast and not get caught with the chest. There seem to be a reason, in my mind, Tarry Scant and Gaze means we need to figure out more. [especially IF the chest / “trove” is not directly at or below the blaze]

            Yep, I like this thought process…

          • Hi Seeker;

            “Go in Peace” – I just looked up “Peace” (for the nth time) and found this:
            freedom from disturbance; tranquility.

            synonyms: tranquility, calm, calmness, restfulness, peace and quiet, peacefulness, quiet, quietness, quietude, silence, soundlessness, hush, noiselessness, stillness, still;

            If you are following a waterway – creek – stream – rivulet (Tributary) – Maybe Forrest is saying to follow this tributary to a still, quiet, peaceful place – Maybe to a small pool or something like that (Remember – it is wet) – Just a thought – JDA

          • Seeker

            Yes, I believe the CHEST is a passageway that’ll lead a person into an area that encompasses the Treasure.
            As Far as “Go In Peace” , it could be what JDA mentioned about going into a tranquil or peaceful place. It could also be Forrest’s way of saying, “Enjoy this Beautiful Peaceful place I found and Have a Nice Day” 🙂

          • One could think of it that way, perhaps. But I’m not going
            (a substantially long and expensive trip, by the way) into the Rocky Mountains in order to search for my physical self, thank you. Burger King won’t let me exchange my physical self for even their least-expensive croissant. I
            once knew someone named Barney. As always, IMO.

        • Pauley T – Did you think of rain and snow, it could cause the treasure to be wet. We all know the chest and it’s contents, gold, jewels and ff’s autobiography, etc., (is the treasure) it is hidden in the wilds and subject to nature. Could be something else besides along a creek, river, lake, pond etc.

          Just Say’n

          • Charlie

            I think it’s all just a play on words and Forrest’s usage of them.

            The poem has the word CHEST in it but what meaning of the word CHEST is Forrest using?

            Regards to snow specifically, if Forrest was referring to snow then the Treasure is definitely above ground. How could snow make the Treasure Chest wet if it was underground?

        • Maybe some liquid appeared at (or moved to) the TC? Oh, the profundity of the conceptualization brings tears to my eyes!

          Just kidding, folks. May I remind y’all that some tears are in the eyes of happy individuals? Please note that I didn’t use the way way way old-fashioned meaning of “gay” to denote happy. I know better than to do that. As always, IMO.

      • “Look quickly down, your quest to cease” indicates that the TC is probably sitting on the ground and can be seen directly by standing over it. This also means that it’s probably exposed to the elements so it can get wet from rain and snow.

  6. Physics tells Forrest the Treasure Chest is wet.

    Physics – The branch of science concerned with the nature and properties of matter and energy. The physical properties and phenomena of something.
    The art of healing.

    An original final clue to this Treasure Hunt was that Forrest was to leave his car in the parking lot of the Denver’s nature and science museum.

    Maybe I’m just all wet.

    • That stuff about the museum in Denver was only a minor confirming hint. It won’t help solve the poem; I suggest anything about Denver be ignored while
      working on a good solve of the poem . . . including the fact that D is a prominent
      letter in that name. As always, IMO.

      • Tall Andrew – There are two D’s in Dizzy Hanna Dean. And those two D’s look like a Double Omega. And Hannah Montana was played by Mylie C. Put the C. in front as C., Mylie, like a backwards bike, and you get ‘Smilie’, like a Simile. Giggles.

        • Tall Andrew – And the archaic use of the comma was like a Circumpunct, the alchemical symbol for GOLD, So:

          Miley C. > C., Miley > C•Miley > ‘S•Mile•Y’

          Is that another ‘word map’, Forrest? So ‘Y’ is “IT” that I must go, to ‘hide’ my ‘trove’ for all to Seek?

          I am pretty sure you did that ‘Riverside’ walk down the Madison in the Preface of TFTW in late August of 2010. In my experience, the ‘water high’ of Spring creates a surprisingly strong current that would have made that trek ‘no place for the meek’.

          “IT’S the ‘clime’.

          All IMO.

  7. Hello Dal.
    I hope everyone is looking forward to the function.
    I decided to try some positivity. with the latest negative you tubers.
    Let me get this out of the way first. Geez . I want to go to the office at the
    Madison junction campground and tell them I have been digging up camping
    space B and broke my shovel where can I get another one.

    Ok.. got that out. My believe is there is a serious point and purpose to this
    Poem. There is a big Picture. he didn’t do this lightly.

    First every ones reasonable solves and ideas are all good ones.
    Easily better than mine. My reason the function should rule..
    I maybe not so smart to say IMO’s of the poem but trying to kick Forrest on
    you tube is way out of perspective.

    a light touch on my IMO’s. First stanza. to me. he has gone in the west entrance.
    he hid his treasure in Yellowstone. It is the riches new and old. You enter at the west
    entrance. My first 5 is all I am willing. marry the clues to places on a map.
    1- WWWH of course Madison junction.
    2- Fire hole canyon.
    3- Yellowstone Lake. In Forrest days it had boat houses and boat rides across the
    lake and back. Boat tours. A lot of people were going there then too.
    Yes my Home of brown is the Old faithful Inn. requirement for the architect was it
    must be brown.
    4- Canyon rim. get to close and off you go. flapping your wings as you crash land.
    no place for the meek.
    5- Devils Den. life’s end is ever drawing nigh. if you need to reflect about yourself
    it maybe for you. something you can not stop. The end is ever drawing nigh.
    6-No comment.
    you still have a long way to go.
    the rest is like you need to unravel the mess. like a silverware draw or a phone cord.
    His rules. His puzzle. IMO Only.
    That is my different approach to the poem. I am sure I am not the first.
    I was able to work something out but who knows. with out BOTG.

    Another of my IMO’s Stanza 5. Like a summary. The Hunter becomes the hunted.

    Well just a Guess for the function junction bunch. Remember I am just guessing.
    For the positive note. I see a Real purpose and a Real point to it. It was not done
    lightly. And his hints are real too. not pulling your legs.

    That book is a prize. remember that. The Only one like it I mean…
    Have a Good Time All.

    There is no point in any Negativity. You ideas are easily better than mine.
    So leave that crap behind.

    I will throw one in. I was thinking a girl will find it. I am serious.. never mind.
    Just making that up.

    And no digging in campsite B. period..

    Later All. Who ever.

  8. IMO ,
    In the first five stanzas of f poem
    There is one major hint , not clue
    That makes the chase much more difficult if not discovered, after watching hours of videos , f talks about this particular situation that he has done in his TTOTC book. , he has said he used this also in other places.. this one hint changes the entire complection of the poem.. I have not seen anybody anywhere even discuss this.
    sorry I cannot even give a hint out myself , but its there!.

      • I could , but I wont , itll give it away..ahhh hours and hours and more hours ,of diligence. not giving my work up like that..
        It’s out there…
        Gotta know what to look for.

    • Asserting that the first five stanzas collectively only amount to one major hint kinda voids FF’s declaration that “The first clue in the poem is begin it where warm waters halt. That’s the first clue.” (Notice that he even stated it twice in succession in that ATF!).

      Care to explain a little more so we can understand how you have voided what the poem’s author has clearly stated is a clue?

  9. I think I found out why a little girl from India can only solve the first couple of clues. The reason is that she only has access to a low resolution map of the United States. Therefore it only shows where WWH and a CD. That’s it. The map doesn’t show any locations other than that. If she has a computer and access to the web she may have found all the clues, i.e., she could become one of armchair searchers, and found the chest already. As long as a certain map shows all the locations with names referred to in the poem, that map is as good as any other maps, IMO.
    — MK

    • IMO, The imaginary little girl from India couldn’t get any closer to the chest because she wouldn’t know if she found it.

      “The only way to know you have the right solve is to find the chest. “The person who finds the treasure will have studied the poem over and over, and thought, and analyzed and moved with confidence.”

      • I think – IMO – that this quote is telling us to go thru the poem over and over to move forward towards the treasure. Multiple answers depending on your location. Therefore moving forward may take you 9 – 10 times of “studying the poem” in order to arrive at the correct destination.

        • www;

          W O W only 9 or 10 times? I have been at it for forty months and have gone through the poem at least 40,000 times I bet 🙂 – JDA

          • JDA – you misunderstood me. I too have gone thru the poem and the books many, many times. What I meant was that once you arrive a predetermined location then you have to use the poem and it’s words to get you closer and closer. It’s basically your map to the “x-act” spot.

          • I remember a TV commercial from decades ago, about something called a “living bra”. The person in the commercial “drew” a cross across the front of her chest (imagine that). Thanks for the mam — I mean memories. All IMO.

    • MK,

      I don’t think a low resolution map matters. I don’t think GE need to be of military grade technology either…
      Analyze; examine methodically and in detail the constitution or structure of (something, especially information), typically for purposes of explanation and interpretation. Syn; examine, Inspect, survey.

      Rather than this being a study of maps [ which obviously will help anyone who is not familiar with any particulate geo. landscape / area ] I see analyzing as part of the botg segment of the solution. As fenn said; he followed his own clues, and there is no other way to his knowledge but to do so. However, to be able to ‘move’ with ‘confidence’ it should be that a searcher as an idea of what to do as well as where to do it… even if all the clues can or can not be deciphered completely at home.
      This might fall into the idea of a searcher’s “planning and observation” of the challenge we are told to consider. Just for a simple example; we might be able to ‘find’ a possible idea for hoB by hints from the book, or studying the poem, or even imagination. But we may never know what it truly is until on the ground looking at it.
      Lets say, just for fun, it represents a mountain, that can be found on a map, GE, even with poor resolution. But to see it from a certain angle at ground level shows us exactly what we need to see… a type of imaginary image, for example… like an animal. Arial views of maps and GE [at least as of yet] can’t provide the ground level needed to be in ‘just the right spot’ to see the image of a natural feature [regardless of size].
      This line of thinking force the searcher to observe the landscape and use imagination, yet still have an idea of a higher confidence level of doing something we need to plan and observe for.

      Just thoughts………

    • FF’s response was “The little girl in India cannot get closer than the first two clues.” I think there is a big difference between CLOSER as FF put it, and SOLVE as you put it.

      • Bowmarc,

        I second that. We know searcher have been at the first two clues and apparently mentioning the clue’s references, and still not know they solved them [ fenn’s words, not mine ]. “Closer” seems to imply the end game and not so much the deciphering part.

      • if india girl is “in india” and can get the first two clues… I think anyone can. And then… the line goes dead. Good comment Bowmarc.

        • Thanks, Ken. Where you say “the line goes dead” is what I have described as the pivotal point where searchers leave the poem as written by FF. Understanding the difference between closer and solve, as well as other words from ATF’s that erroneously get interchanged and/or associated may just be the kind of thinking that will lead to a correct solve.

  10. Also, I believe when Forrest says in the New Mexico Tourism Video,
    “I know the Treasure Chest is wet.”
    That he is simply making an Educated Guess determining that the Treasure Chest is wet after pondering his comment “ It’s probably already wet” for so long and realized he should definitively say something about it.
    These comments along with, “Physics” comment DO NOT have anything to do with the poem and books so why would he mention these things about the Treasure being wet?

    If it is additional information then why play games with the comments?
    Why is the information NOT straight forward?

    1. It’s probably already wet
    2. I know the Treasure Chest is wet
    3. Physics tells me the Treasure is wet

    Why so vague? Why not be straight forward with these clues?
    They are not part of the Poem and nine (9) clues so how in the world could anything Forrest says about the Treasure being wet give away any information regarding the Treasure location? We all KNOW the Treasure is in the Great Outdoors somewhere, Out in the Wilderness because that’s what Forrest told us from the get go. With that said, Of Course there is a possibility that the Treasure may be wet, whether we believe if the Treasure is buried or not.

    So, WHY make such an issue about the Treasure being wet?
    Why in the world would Forrest say the things about Treasure being wet?
    “There’ll be no paddle up your creek” , well THERE’S a creek involved, chances are the Bronze box is sitting in that creek RIGHT?
    So, WHY talk about the Treasure being WET?

    What POINT was Forrest trying to make by saying these things about the Treasure being WET?

    Can anyone help with this?

    • Pauley;

      I think that the example you gave – “There’ll be no paddle up your creek” , well THERE’S a creek involved, chances are the Bronze box is sitting in that creek RIGHT?” – Well, maybe not. If ” “There’ll be no paddle up your creek” –
      This may be because the creek is dry, thus no paddle. Some interpret this line that way. If this is true, then Forrest is saying that beyond the dry creek, you will find “Just heavy loads and water high” – and because of this “water high” Indulgence is PROBABLY wet. For me, Forrest is just reinforcing the idea that we SHOULD look for a wet place.

      Forrest gets TONS of emails. Maybe too many of these emails indicate that people were looking in DRY places, and Forrest just wanted to remind up about Water High – Just a thought – Have a GREAT day Pauley – JDA

      • JDA

        Glad you like the TRUNK theory. And thanks for “Go in Peace” input, sounds good to me.

        The “CREEK” comment I made was an example of water and the water high can be used as well.

        1. If the Treasure is outside there’s a good chance it’s wet.
        2. The poem has several references to water, where warm waters halt, put in, no paddle up your creek, water high, just take the chest-tributary, worth the cold-possibly crossing a water source.
        3. Forrest made comments about Treasure being wet.

        My point is that with all the information we have about the Treasure, why in the WORLD do we have to be told that the Treasure that is hidden OUTDOORS is WET?
        What POSSIBLE outcome could come from this?

        I think it’s a clue for sure, so why is it a clue?
        That’s all I’m trying to get at.
        Why did Forrest say the things he did about the Treasure being WET?
        There has to be an explanation.

        IMO, it’s common sense that the Treasure May be wet because it is outdoors, so why tell us that?

        And, with reference to the New Mexico Tourism Video, at the end of it Forrest says, “There’s one thing I told you and wish I had not.”
        Is it the “WET” comment Forrest was referring to?
        If it is, then why?
        Why so much mystery surrounding the WET comment?
        Unless, was Forrest referring to, Mountains or Animals or Pine Smell instead of the WET comment he wished he not told about?

        It seems to me that Forrest was SAVING the WET comment to be used at a later time when he felt it needed or appropriate to drop another clue into the mix. But once again, WHY? Why is the Treasure being WET A CLUE?

        And, once again, did the Treasure become wet on the day Forrest secreted it and has it remained wet each and every day since then? Or did the Treasure become wet at a later time and does it stay wet for awhile and then become NOT wet?

        Several thousand days have passed since Forrest hid his Treasure, how many days has the Treasure been WET?

        If Forrest came right out and said, “The Treasure is sitting in a small creek” , would that actually help us in any way? There are thousands and thousands of miles of little creeks all over the Rocky Mountains, how could that possibly narrow it down some? To me it’s the equivalent of saying, “The Treasure is surrounded by AIR! 🙂

        I think these are important questions and could possibly lead a person to the exact location of the Treasure, I’m simply just looking for some answers.

      • JDA
        I did a lot of thinking on this one. I was trying to relate it to his dad.
        About not being paddled but heavy heart and tears. And a double
        meaning as a creek that has a high water fall. no beavers in the creek.
        I was thinking its just a creek that ends at a high water fall.
        So you can’t go up it where it ends. IMO..
        Some crazy ideas. my solve evolved with a switch over and a height
        requirement at the end. and I gave it up. maybe in a few years I
        might try if it has not been found.
        Stay Safe..

      • My own admittedly uncertain interpretation is that NPFTM, NPUYC, and HLAWH all refer to the same thing. I have a wordplay with the opposite of meek that matches up with my interpretation of heavy loads. I’ve thought water high could be a high water mark or marker and the “creek” seasonal, containing water only during spring runoff, a place to be avoided until spring runoff has finished, and then crossed when dry (no paddle). It’s somewhere beyond that where I would look quickly down from the previously wisely determined blaze. My interpretation of the chest being said to be wet in spite of no rain is simply the “physics” of evaporation of being outside rather than being near a body of water of some sort. So many choices, huh?

  11. If the chest is one’s physical upper torso, then it’s wet – as long as you’re alive. As for FF’s box of tricks, I suspect we’ll have to wait until it’s discovered to know for sure. So it’s probably wet, but maybe also west.

    Btw, has anyone investigated the Western Interior Seaway as part of their research? I dunno, but might be WISe. (Not really necessary, but I liked the acronymic pun!)

    And on the subject of time (were we?), for those who can access BBC America, watch out for The Planets – a new series with Professor Brian Cox. The first episode pulls together information gathered from the space probes and new theories on planetary evolution to give plenty of food for thought. Quite meditative in the way it’s presented.

    Side note for moon landing deniers (see another forum): don’t worry, most of the scenes on Mercury, Venus and Titan are fake (CGI), and those that are from the actual planetary missions were in fact filmed in Forrest’s backyard. If you watch carefully, you might see Beowulf coming from behind one of those Mercurial boulders.

    Live long and prosper!

  12. Concerning the little girl from India:

    Forrest has stated that you can’t solve the last clue without being on the ground. So you can possibly solve all the other clues without being on the ground. So the India girl could possibly solve all but the last clue because if she stays in India she can’t solve it all.

    But, Forrest said she couldn’t get any closer than the 2nd clue. How does that make sense?

    Well, what if the second clue takes you right past (near but not to) the TC? And then the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th clues take you around a large loop that circles back to where the 2nd clue took you? After the 8th clue you need to be on the ground to solve it all. And since it is at the same general location as where the 2nd clue took you, you are NO CLOSER to the TC at the 8th clue than you were at the 2nd clue.

    Forrest also said that some have solved the first two clues than went right past the next 7 clues. That means they didn’t recognize the possibility that you must circle away and then back to the area between the 2nd and 3rd clue.

    • I think you make a lot of assumptions and assert them as fact. Did the person “walk by” the clues physically? Or was that a play on words that the person didn’t recognize they found the first two, and because so, they went right by the other 7 clues in the poem

      • JimB,

        I think a lot of folks want to dismiss [ for lack of a better term ] “went by” as a physically walking in search mode.

        SF podcast; “It’s not a matter of trying, its a matter of thinking. Sure, I mean people figured the first couple of clues and unfortunately walked passed the treasure chest.

        Apparently, several, more than several… have solved, indicated, figured out, the first two clues. Some having walked by the chest. How many-?- we don’t know. But in the overall aspects of fenn’s comments one can reasonably assume, to do so, they would have to go by, went by, walked passed the other clues… because they told fenn their process… that’s how he knows.

        Not forgetting, we have been told the clues are in order and contiguous and he followed the clues etc. Taking into consideration the many ATFs on the subject, folks would have had to go by, went by, walked passed, hop skip jump, through the remaining clue’s location to get near the chest.

        Some would have had to, unless they all [ amount unknown ] took the same wrong route [ not going by any the remaining 7 clues, “walking” ] and some got lucky to just get near the chest later on… that’s a hard pill to swallow imo. Especially from fenn’s comment above.

        Just sayin………..

        I guess my question is; How could anyone not be near any and all clues if they were at the first two and continued in search mode..some getting very close to the chest [ 500′ – 200′ ] without walking by the remaining clues to get near the hide?

        • That is a good question Seeker, however I IMO, we first need to look at how Fenn talks about things being close and or near.

          I live in Ohio, so anything that takes me to the Rocky Mountains makes me much closer to the chest, even if I am in West Yellowstone (because West Yellowstone is closer to Santa Fe than Ohio is to Santa Fe).

          In “Looking for Lewis and Clark, fenn states : “Russell, along with a few of Jim Bridger’s trappers, was attacked by eighty Blackfeet Indians near where Hebgen Dam would be built” In this sentence, “near” is actually describing a road distance of about 17 miles, and about 10-1/2 miles as the crow flies. Two sentences later, Fenn says: “About thirty years earlier, Lewis and Clark, on their wonderful Corps of Discovery, had passed through Montana not too many miles to the north.” In this sentence “Near” describes a distance of about 70 miles.

          So, just a hypothetical. Say I have decided (and this isn’t my WWWH) is Boiling River at the swimming spot, and “Canyon Down” is the Yellowstone River “canyon”, and my HoB is Devils slide. From that I decide the rest of the clues take me up by Aldridge Lake. So I find nothing, but because I drove all the way from Ohio, I decide I will go into the Tom Miner Basin, get a permit to find/collect some petrified wood, and hilke up the Petrified wood interprative trail. What if the chest was within 500′ of the overlook at the top of that hill? And because I am exploring, I decide to look for a better view which brings me to within 200′?

          Again, I am in no way saying anything in the previous paragraph is fact, however that is how easy it would be to find a couple of clues, and “walk on by” (or drive, or fly, or miss the clues) the rest.

          I may be wrong, but if people have been within 500′ of the treasure, and someone comes from a far distance to the Rockies, chances are (if they picked the right “General” area, that their serarch may bring them within 70 miles (near) the treasure.

          • JimB,

            I’m attempting to use the ATF’s fenn is known to have stated. Most of which are interviews about the challenge and Q&As from searchers. You brought in extra possibilities [ such as doing some collecting of Petrified Wood ]… while we have been told; fenn knows of the actions and places people have been by their ‘process’.

            To add unknown hypothetical to what has been stated [as fuzzy at times as they are] you automatically and unwillingly sabotaged the ATF’s. This is why I try to not hang my hat on a single ATF or even a few. They all should have a some truth to them as a combination of what has taken place, and imo related to searcher in search mode.
            Once the idea of driving, or boating, or hovercraft, or a searcher in tourist mode is brought up… we can make; “solved the first two clues…went by the remaining clues” – “figured out the first couple of clues and unfortunately walked passed the treasure chest” to be anything we ‘hope’ them to be that might help our personal ideas / theories of our solves… and not so much a check and balance to our ideas.

            In a Q&A fenn; fenn stated, in part, [paraphrasing. it’s best for folks to look up these comments to read all of the Q&A’s etc]. ~ An 80 yrs old is not going down and up a canyon.
            So we hear folks saying, driving is involved because of their idea of what NF,BTFTW might entail. Only this comment doesn’t have driving within in it. I’m sure and 80 yr old could drive in or around a canyon. Only fenn has stated he walked less than a few miles, made two trip, followed the clues, did it in one afternoon.. from his car to the hide.. using the same route. Doing so twice.
            Why would he need to follow is own clues, if he could simply drive to the closest clue to the hide he could reach by vehicle?
            LOL he didn’t need a map to write the poem.. right? but for some reason he apparently ‘followed the clues.’

            In my mind, for searchers on site, to explain their process to fenn, their first two clues and end up close to the chest, go by the remaining clues etc etc. we need to be very careful in adding unknowns into those comments.

            Side note; most of the ATF’s mentioned are, in part, attempting to keep this response shorter… everyone should all read the full comments.

          • Jim… your example/s seem worthy in a sense but not overall to me. Taking different examples of Fenn using a word and spinning it for our own purposes has never seemed to work… at all.
            When looking at an idea like that it reminds me of Milan’s Q in reference to “close proximity” and how Fenn used it a couple of different times. Fenn’s answer was in part…”…Each close proximity is different, relative, and site-specific.” I believe that would probably hold true for most things we read that Fenn has written…each story is different. Thanks for the idea…

          • Seeker,
            Do a search for 200 feet on Tarry scant. He never talks about searchers “process.” He says he knows exactly where they were because they told him exactly where they were. He doesn’t say they ended up “there” (within 200 feet) because of their search.

            Also, It is very easy to have to follow the clues somewhere. Say the first clue is somewhere special to him, so he stays near the first clue the night before he hides the chest (hotel, camper, friends ranch). If the Treasure is hidden at the end of a road, you would have to follow the clues to get there. At some point (and IMO it is the HoB) you have to actually follow the clues. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe WWWH is at the head of a canyon and the treasure is somewhere ‘down’ the canyon and there is absolutely zero access to the canyon except the point of entry.

            From how I see it, I don’t buy into that quite yet.

          • JimB ~ Seeker,
            Do a search for 200 feet on Tarry scant. He never talks about searchers “process.” ‘

            Jim, If you only use Tarry Scant… best of luck.
            F ~ “Searchers have routinely revealed where they think the treasure was hidden and **walked me through the process** that took them on that course. That’s how I know a few have identified the first two clues. Although others were at the starting point I think their arrival was an aberration and they were oblivious to its connection with the poem. Playing a hunch is not worth much in the search and those who start out by looking for the blaze, are wasting their time.f ”

            Tarry Scant is a nice site to hit the highlights of some of fenn’s ATF’s but it does lack a quite few. Their still adding as they go along, from my understanding.
            May I suggest looking at the bottom of this page for “NPUYC – JCM”… he compiled a lot of ATFs { think he might have them all to be honest } with links to most for you to check even more than just the highlight pieces most talk about.

            The comment you refer to is from the “lure” presentation. But there are a few ATF’s where fenn stated Progress, Process, Walked me though… etc etc.

            I’ve been at this too long…

          • Seeker, all I read in that is that their “process” took them to the first two clues, not to within 200’

          • JimB,

            There are countless of pieces of information fenn has shared over the years. If you’re looking for a single comment that answers all… it’s not out there as far as in know.
            fenn was asked many times, in many ways if he took a short cut, followed some or all the clues etc… but never came out and stated or answered those question for 8 years of inquiries. Then when he does comes out and say; he followed the clues when he hid the chest… folks want to elaborate on the comment by saying he didn’t say “all” the clues.
            I find that funny. Folks automatically attempting to make excuse because their solve takes them to later clues, rather than psychically starting at the first clues.

            The thing is, fenn has told us we need to follow the clues, “there’s know other way to his knowledge.” That he spent a great amount of time putting this altogether [ almost 2 decades from start to the action of hiding the trove. ] Something he planned out…

            One single comment is not going to hand you a thought process… however… if we can combine the information, there are patterns that tend to appear.
            He followed the clues when he hid the chest, as we have been told is a must to do. There must be a reason for the man who created the clues from memory [ no map ] knows the place like the back of his hand.. still have the need to follow his design [ blueprint ].
            We know of his approx. time line, approx. distance, two trips involved, walked less than a few miles, same route taken for those trips, followed his own clues etc. But even then, those comments were spread out over a the years.
            If we were to only take one of those comments of fenn’s process… we can create anything to fit our hopeful solves / locations. But when we now have many comments… we can check and balance our solves a little better than just from a single ATF.

            One example was fenn being asked; Who else know?… in the answering of that question, fenn added; an 80 yr old is not going down and up a canyon. LOL that comment alone doesn’t help much. But from that, some folks have the idea this might proves their theories of driving out clues. Yet we have fenn explaining much of his process [ most summarized above in this post ].

            What is the logical idea? Did he drive clues? or follow all the clues, {walking} because there is no other way he ‘knows of’.
            I mean, if he took the same route in and out, AND followed the clues… the idea seems to imply the same clues [9] we need, not just some.
            We have fenn saying; People have figured the first couple of clues and ‘unfortunately’ walked passed the treasure chest. When we think about all the ATF’s of searchers and fenn process [that we have been told of up to this point]… the most logical conclusion is, some of them walked by the chest, and very likely within 500′ some maybe as close as 200′.
            I highly doubt, as some suggest, this means folks drove by on a highway near by, or flew into an airport and the chest was 500′ below the aircraft at some point, or a searcher was not in search mode [ their process ] but rather in tourist mode and veered close to the chest. IMO, those are only an attempt to make excuse to feel better about a hopeful solve that doesn’t quite line up with the ATF’s, using common sense and analyzing them with an open mind.

            Fen made a comment in 2013 in an interview saying WWW’sH is the first clue. [ the only ‘audio’ that I know of ]. Yet, because that interview was with a NZ radio station… many of us didn’t know it was stated till years later. [ after Loco posted the link ]. How it slipped by all the fennsters for all those years baffles me, but it did. Without that ‘audio confirmation’ it was still a guess on what was the actual first clue.

            We all see what we want to see… I just can’t hang my hat on a single comment because of something said or ‘not said.’

            I attempt to utilize all that is being said… If you don’t want searchers from the first two clues groups be any person that came within 500′ of the chest, I have no problems with that. I just don’t see how they can’t be with all the pieces of info we have to date.

          • “Yes I did Tyler, It was the most direct route.”
            If it was the *most direct route* going back to his car…should it not be the most direct route going to the spot?
            I think this is almost the same premise as the *I’m not ready to say* concept. I’ll also include the whole expensive idea that Fenn finished writing the poem after he hid the chest in this same scenario. That in itself is a huge leap given comment/s that infer something different. I am absolutely okay that folks see it that way…half of me does too sometimes!

          • *** *** *** ***
            JimB proposed – “He says he knows exactly where they were because they told him exactly where they were. He doesn’t say they ended up “there” (within 200 feet) because of their search.”
            *** *** *** ***

            The one quote that best correlates the ‘first-two-clues’ with the ‘200-500-feet’ ideas –

            “There’ve been a few people within five hundred feet; I think there’ve been people within a couple hundred feet. They figure the first two clues, but they don’t get the third and the fourth and they go right past the treasure chest.” ff

            Julius Brighton reporting, 20 May 2015, at about 6:20


            It’s suggestive that ‘first-2-clues’ and ‘500-feet’ statements go all the way back to the spring of 2013 (if not even earlier, but with *at most* two full search seasons past publication).

            But ‘200-feet’ doesn’t seem to enter the mix until 2015 (at least according to my own notes), and still only ‘two-clues’ (except for the one vague ‘four-clues’ uncertainty).

            Could be significant, or could just mean that ff was casting flies, and (after a couple more search seasons) figured he could safely land them a little closer without giving the game away.

            (And to up the sales pitch – by 2015 the audience had really grown, and given the difficulty of the chase, some indication that it was possible to make progress was called for).


          • Jak,

            I knew there were other comment, but I hardly keep notes and didn’t want to track them down … its all in my head. Well, at least I have been told that from time to time.

            Thanks for posting that one.

        • Seeker – In my solve, clue #2 is home of Brown as a giant Brown trout in the landscape, on my topo map, across from Barns Hole #1. If one was to walk or bike the Riverside Downstream Trail, upstream, from there, and connect to the Boundary Trail, down the street from the old FennHaven Cabins, then continue ‘straight forward’ to my ‘S-mile’ Trail at Baker’S Hole, and then walk around “IT”, to the hidey spot across “IT”, as the Madison River, as I did, you would ‘walk right by the other seven clues’.

          Did you do that, Sandy, to that suspicious Interpretive Sign, except for the last ‘Miss Ford’ part? How about you, Diggin’ Gypsy?

          Would either of you faint if you knew how close you were?

          And that’s M•S•Ford, to you, Forrest. I am a Single mature woman. Being ‘bold’. Crossing the Rubicon River, ‘AS’ it were.

          All IMO.

          Big Smile.

    • Put in below the home of Brown. India girl won’t find that on a map, and neither will we. There are two phrases here. “Put in” could be literally referring to Indulgence, a train reference to a siding, parking, or boating reference. You lake and river people think of putting the craft into the water versus a take out. Coastal folk put out to sea and put in to shore. Aside from not being on a map, the jargon and colloquialisms would not be understood by the little girl. “Home of Brown” is another thing altogether.

      • Saun;

        I must disagree. I think that hoB can be found on a map. Found as a particular land feature – like a mountain, a mesa, a plateau or a valley.

        Just seeing this feature will not tell you “Here I am!!! – I’m the hoB.” It will take a bit of research about the area, and its history, or you have to be familiar with local lore to recognize this land feature as the hoB.

        Knowing the history of this feature will reveal why it is the hoB – JMO – JDA

        • Strong likelihood botg and eyes-on are required to recognize, I agree. The place or feature could be on a map (sat, topo etc) but not called out or named. Again suggests we need to be there. There’s a whole lot of “there” out there.

          • Saun;

            I agree, and yet disagree. I can put BotG, and look at my hoB (and did for a number of searches), and yet not recognize it as the hoB. It took research. It took a bit of learning about the history and lore of the area. It took a better understanding of geography before I could say – “Yes, this is the hoB Forrest wants me to see.” Yes, I could be wrong, but yes, I could also be right. Just how I see it – You may disagree, and that is OKAY – JDA

          • “No specialized knowledge is required mdavis19, and I have no expectations. My Thrill of the Chase book is enough to lead an average person to the treasure.f”

            “It helps to know something about Rocky Mountain geography when making plans to search for my treasure. Rocking chair ideas can lead one to the first few clues, but a physical presence is needed to complete the solve. Google Earth cannot help with the last clue. f”

            Regarding US History:
            “No Steve R, The only requirement is that you figure out what the clues mean. But a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help.f”

          • @meBigGuy —

            “No specialized knowledge is required mdavis19, and I have no expectations. My Thrill of the Chase book is enough to lead an average person to the treasure.f”

            I find it curious that it is only sub-average persons who engage in the Chase. So humbling.

        • Intriguing… First thing intelligent you have said JDA… Kidding of course. It is the first thing you have said that makes me wonder if our search areas are similar? Of course, like the poem, this could apply to many areas as well.

          • Yellowdog;

            email me at SculptorJDA at aol dot com and I can easily figure out if we are in the same area, without you having to disclose where you are. A simple one question test – JDA

        • Hi JDA,
          There may not be any land feature associated with hoB. As I pointed out more than a couple of times you may not find a particular geographical location or feature associated with the “home of Brown”, IMO. Also in my solve there are no locations associated with “heavy loads” nor “water high”. I may be wrong, but I’m pretty much confident with my solve that once you identified the nine clues in a consecutive order, you don’t need other lines in the poem, since they just give additional descriptions about the locations already selected as clues.
          — MK

          • MK;

            Good luck. We see the poem much differently, and that is OKAY – that is what makes the Chase so exciting – JDA

          • I believe that “heavy loads” and “water high” serve an
            important (but perhaps not absolutely necessary to a good solve) function in the poem. Good luck. I hope the next
            few months are good ones for you. As always, IMO.

    • Hi, Veronica S! Just killing time myself waiting for the snows to melt a bit more. Shouldn’t be too much longer! Have you scheduled your first BOTG trip yet?

  13. Blex- I am leaving this week and will
    Reach my area by the weekend but it’s far from my first trip . I’ve Been looking for 4 years now! Lol .
    The water is very high because of late runoff this year so if you are headed out soon be very careful and use good judgment. Nature is an unforgiving mistress and the rivers are stronger than people think. It’s good to hear from you, Blex

    • Good luck, Veronica! I may head out in another 2-3 weeks myself, but for now it looks like this will be a good weekend for me to at least take a non-search-related hike in the Rockies!

  14. Aardvarkbark:
    One of my own early thoughts about the chase was- A person would have
    to be an idiot-savant to keep track of all these pieces of information-
    Your recent post suggests you may be half-way there.
    Metaphorically speaking, of course.

    • mmmm…my play on the classic ‘Graduate’ line?

      Soooo, if I’m half-way to being an idiot-savant, that suggests I’m an….

      no, no, don’t tell me….it’ll come to me in a moment….

  15. The one dollar bill has pyramid with eye above.
    The bottom half looks like the Abiquiu mountain near Ghost ranch
    Many refernces to money. By Forrest.
    Chase on 10,000 bill
    Also mentions eye, one. Etc

  16. Here is my 2 cents worth about that pesky Indian girl:
    She can’t get any further than clue #2 because they can be seen on a map or Google Earth. (I choose to believe that WWWH is the first real clue to getting to the actual location, so this is where I start)WWWH can be seen as a place on the map, and you can use common sense to tell how far is too far to walk . Myself, that would be @15-20 miles. ( not terribly far, but I’d rather drive )
    Now, as for anything after PIBtHoB : You have to have your BOTG from this point because your search area just got much MUCH smaller. You should be relatively close at this point and clues cannot be seen from a paper map or even Google Earth. NPFtM is describing the location now and he tells us that The end is drawing nigh . Anything after that semicolon is describing the end of your search area and what is in close proximity. Look in the book and notice how Forrest uses semicolons. IHe always does it properly and I don’t think the poem is any different. So if you are almost there, you should be –
    #1 not paddling up a creek
    # 2 near heavy loads and high water
    Split hairs all you want but The Blaze cannot be seen from a map or GE.
    Pick it apart and take it however you please, this is how I have tried to use common sense with that dang Indian Girl .

    *All of this is in my opinion and is in no way fact

  17. Hello Forrest Fenn,

    I just wanted to take this time to say, “Thank You for all you do!”
    I believe You have made a Great Impression on Countless amounts of People throughout the World and have Givin all of us a Wonderful distraction from the every day routine in our lives. It truly is appreciated. Thank You once again.

    But, I was just wondering, if at all possible, if you’d might like to use this opportunity to acknowledge or clarify any of the clues you have mentioned and talked about over the past years. Specifically, but certainly not limited to, the State (MT, WY, CO, NM) in which you hid the Treasure and/or where that Where Warm Waters Halt place is.

    Please keep in mind, this is of my opinion most certainly, that acknowledging the State (MT, WY, CO, NM) in which the Treasure is secreted or acknowledging the place Where Warm Waters Halts IS NOT in any way whatsoever Shape or Form Attributing to the Whereabouts and Secreted area that Beholds the Indulgent Bronze Chest.

    I believe, that by revealing these answers you’ll ONLY be strengthening your relationship with all of us and NOT in any way should you feel that you are “Letting the Cat Outta the Bag” so to speak.

    I apologize if this request sounds absolutely absurd or is unorthodox in any way. I truly believe that NO significant outcome will prevail by attaining this information. Thanks.

    Paul T W

    (This is my final grasp at it!)

  18. “The Hebrew word, the word timshel – ‘Thou mayest’ – that gives a choice. It might be the most important word in the world. That says the way is open…Why, that makes a man great…He can choose his course and fight it through and win…I have a new love for that glittering instrument, the human soul. It is a lovely and unique thing in the universe. It is always attacked and never destroyed – because ‘Thou mayest’

    –John Steinbeck

    • The part in East of Eden where the character (Lee?) talks about that word is one of my favorite passages in a book. Even Forrest might like it… Or, maybe not.

  19. Many times it’s been said that the poem is “straightforward” or “straight forward”. But (perhaps ironically) fuzzy logic takes me to a place with which I’m comfortable, regardless of the twist. And sometimes, when I think of “straight forward”, I think of Farrah Fawcett doing the hokey pokey.

    The word “curious” sometimes amuses me, but it’s not the primary word that does.

    adjective: staple

    main or important, especially in terms of consumption.
    “the staple foods of the poor”
    synonyms: main, principal, chief, major, primary, leading, foremost, first, most important, predominant, dominant, (most) prominent, key, crucial, vital, indispensable, essential, basic, fundamental, standard, critical, pivotal, prime, central, premier; informal number-one
    “rice was the staple crop grown in most villages”
    If you don’t have the first clue nailed down, you don’t have anything.
    Don’t ignore the nouns in the poem.

    All in my opinion.

  20. A funny thing happened on the way home from the studio today. Kathy was doing a crossword puzzle on her phone and told me that 28 down was “Who’s treasure is buried in the Rockies?” The answer was “Fenns”

    That has to be a significant sign of recognition to have your treasure hunt appear as a Q/A in a crossword puzzle.

    Maybe soon it will be a Jeopardy Q/A

    • First, being part of the plot line on Longmire and now This, Awesome!
      Soooooooo ………. IT IS BURIED!

      But, did Forrest bury it or did it become buried thru time?
      And what’s this 28 down thing? Does that mean go down RT 28 and look for a significant sign or something?
      The Explosion is Finally Here!
      Thank You DAL!

      Just havin a wee bit o fun. 🙂

    • The Golden Owl treasure hunt celebrated their 25th last May. The Fenners are due for their 10th in no time at all. Time flies when you’re having the time of your life. Thanks for sharing that Dal…

    • That’s funny! The Chase has officially embedded itself in popular culture!

      Does this mean that someday Indulgence will show up as an item on “The Price is Right?”
      “5 million!”
      “3 million!”
      “2 million!”
      “1 dollar, Drew!”
      “Actual retail price….”

  21. I was thinking again this morning about how Forrest may have hidden the chest. I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t know much about the mechanics of how the chest closing devise works and I’m unable to tell from the photos if there are any other manual type toggle or clicking closing devises on the box. I was thinking along the lines of something that might need to be swiveled and/or engaged, prior to actually locking the box. Something similar to an old suitcase type latch, perhaps.

    I realize that Forrest hid the chest unlocked so I was just wondering about the possibility of any other types of safety latches on the chest. I’m thinking that if there was some type of pre-lock latch, then this might have provided Forrest with a number of other ways to secret the chest, other than in a flat or traditional position.

    In researching the chest I found the following MW Q&A by Muset, from 2015:

    “Hi Forrest, The medieval chest looks like it has a pretty fancy lock which must have been very difficult to make in those days. Can you please describe how the lock works and how it was made ? ~ Muset”

    Forrest responded by answering:

    “Muset, don’t underestimate the metalsmiths in ancient times. They made remarkable objects with iron and bronze. The lock works like most others. You put the key in and turn. It reminds me of a story. About 23 years ago when my oldest granddaughter was young I told her that if I put a key in her belly button and turned it, her pants would fall off. She’s still laughing, and reminding me that I said it. f”


    I get that the lock works like a lock works. That is, you put the key in and turn it. But this Q&A doesn’t really offer much in the way of the closing or latching devise. As an example, consider a padlock, you still have to swing the metal arm over the loop, prior to sliding the lock on, prior to putting the key in and turning to lock it.

    And since my first example might be kinda funky for some, (it is even for me because I don’t really believe that the chest locks with a padlock type lock), but consider an old suitcase lock. You still have to push the arm down until it clicks (is this spring activated? some sort of catch on the inside?), then you get to put the key in and turn. In any event, with a suitcase type lock, you don’t actually have to lock the lock if you don’t want to, but the suitcase will still remain closed securely, until that little button is pushed to release the latch. Know what I mean?

    Wow…..Who knew I could complicate a lock?

    Anyways, any thoughts on a pre-lock devise?

    Will the chest remain securely closed, knowing that it’s not locked?

    All IMO

    • SRW;

      Look on the back cover of TTOTC. I think that this view will answer your question. Look at the lid. Just below the “rim” that goes all of the way around the lid, you will see a little “block” with a “pin” or “Tang” perpendicular to the lid face.

      It would seem that this little pin or tang will go into a “Hole” on the back-side of the front face of the box. The “Lock” will grab this “tang” and lock the box. Will it “Snap” when you close the lid? I doubt it, but it will provide some friction that will probably allow the box to be placed on it’s back face, without the lid opening – But that is just a guess.

      When the front “Latch” is in place with the lid closed, it looks like the “Frog” will be almost perpendicular to the front face of the box (Pointing slightly down) – again an educated guess. Does this “Latch” “Snap into place” somehow? Again, I doubt it, but I am just guessing. Hope this helps – JDA

      • Thanks JDA,

        I was actually just now taking a closer look at those photos and was just reaching the same conclusions as you posted above. I actually think that little bits of information like this are helpful. I like to consider all of the possibilities, not just the most likely scenarios. Could lead to a winning solve. Who knows?

        Thanks for the info.

        All IMO.

      • Hi JDA,

        Not that it makes a difference on how the chest latches but I believe the animal on the latch is a Ram not a Frog. I use to know where there was a high resolution picture of it that someone posted way back but not sure where now.

        Enjoy life,

        • Thanks Bur;

          Now that you mention it, I think I remember someone once saying that it is a ram – I had forgotten that – Thanks for tweaking my memory – JDA

    • SRW, you understand what I was trying to get at back then– is there a latch or a catch or both or neither? What holds the top to the bottom and what mechanism locks it?

      I think Forrest understood my question as me looking for one of those key words and responded appropriately with neither.

      • Hey Muset,

        Yea. I think your question was important. Knowing the answer to how the box holds together could help us to discover all of the possible ways he could have hidden that box, without the contents spilling out upon extraction. At least that’s how I see it.

        By the way, did you reach a conclusion in regards to the latch on the box? After I looked a little closer at the photos, I’ve come to the conclusion that there is what appears to be a clasp, as JDA suggested, that would keep the box closed tightly, even though it’s not locked, which would allow Forrest to hide it in a number of different ways. Gives me a few more ideas of what I might be looking for while I’m out-and-about out there.

        Thanks for asking Forrest that question.

        Good luck on your searches.

        All IMO

          • Thanks Muset for the post. The latch on this “box” looks more like a gargoyle than either a ram or frog – but nice. Zooming in on the one PIC that has the lid open is helpful in answering the question about “clicking” or latching – JDA

          • That’s cool. Thanks for the Link. I definitely see the pin on the lid and the hinge on rocker device. If the two chests were made the same way, then that answers the latching question, I think.

            At least now we know what we’re looking for.

            Thanks again,


          • Gargoyle is a really good alternative to the ram or frog or latch or catch. Thanks.

            I’m thinking now about the 1990s when cars had blinking led lights inside that posed an armed car alarm but were merely blinking lights. Lifting the gargoyle might have been enough at the height of the medieval age to prevent somebody from even thinking about trying to pick the lock.

          • I can see why he left the chest unlocked with the key inside.
            The locking feature wouldn’t stop anyone or an animal such as a bear to easily unlock it with a swipe.

          • Hello Muset! That latch looks like a jungle cat to me, panther or jaguar?

  22. For Amusement I guess. When I was Google street view on a cut in Yellowstone.
    Checking out how to get to a place. I noticed a small maker sign. Normal park thing.
    Not sure what it was for. About 25 feet off road facing the road. 2 foot metal post like
    fence post. metal with holes with a little 2 x 3 inch dark green sign at top. Nothing abnormal.
    Could not figure what it was for. I kept trying to see this small square in front of it. Like just
    the lid of chest. Got me to wonder how crafty. Duplicate a nothing sign . Put trove property
    of Forrest Fenn and a phone number. There was no pull over or anything. Wide open grass
    and rare pines. Would that change the legal issue. Something nobody would pay any attention to. It was far enough off the road. I just though that would be pretty crafty.
    I guess I got bored.
    Keep searching.

    • You skipped NPFTM, and don’t say Joseph Meek since no knowledge of US History is required. (resorting to Joseph Meek is the usual solve for that area)

      Big Creek and Hyalite as a play on words for HLaWH is a new one for me. I hope Fenn’s solution isn’t that cheap.

      But, the Mammoth/Yankee Jim canyon/Joe Brown putin and beyond is where everyone starts. I even have a couple of ideas in that area, but they don’t play out. I’ll be looking there this year, though.

      I wish you luck with Hyalite.

      • I agree a knowledge of history isn’t required, but if something Fenn writes about in TTOTC directly sends you to another source- and a hint in his book ties that other source about Joe Meek you might reconsider. IMO

        I could be completely wrong, I’m not betting the house on it (but I am betting a trip to Montana from Ohio on it).

        Once I have exhausted my search area I will elaborate.

          • Yep. There’s another hint in the book I feel ties to meek. And it’s definitely “out there”

        • I’m just saying that you can’t tie Joe Meek to the word meek in Npftm by saying he did or didn’t do something in some area. That is historical, not geographical, knowledge. No place for the meek needs to of geographical significance in and of itself, not through some historical tie-in. (IMO)

          • Mr. Fenn, Is there any level of knowledge of US history that is required to properly interpret the clues in your poem. ~Steve R
          No Steve R, The only requirement is that you figure out what the clues mean. But a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help.f

          “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search.”

          This one bothers me for other reasons:
          Q: Will the poem lead you to the treasure?
          A: “Yes if you know where to start.”

          “If a person reads the poem over and over…and are able to decipher the first few clues in the poem, they can find the treasure chest. It may not be easy, but it certainly isn’t impossible. I could go right straight to it.” (Collected Works video)


  23. In a recent posted message in the WWWH thread, poster MajinKing posted this edict about what is needed to find the chest:

    “… you have to PHYSICALLY FOLLOW the path laid out by Fenn all the way to the TC …” [in CAPS for emphasis]

    This is a common misconception, in my opinion. Entire solutions have been proposed that require that the searcher PHYSICALLY follow all the clues, either by driving or by walking.

    I scanned the website “Tarry Scant” for the word “follow”. None of Fenn’s statements wherein he advised us to “follow” the clues included the word “physically” attached to “follow”.

    Here are a few of his statements that use “follow”, as in follow the clues:

    “All you have to do is think about the nine clues and FOLLOW them in order.”

    “The treasure will be found by someone who FOLLOWED the clues to the location.”

    “You should start with the first clue and FOLLOW the others consecutively …”

    “The clues should be FOLLOWED in order Curtis.”

    There are many definitions of the word “FOLLOW”. One is >>> to understand the sense of logic, such as a line of thought”. An example would be “I FOLLOW your line of thinking”; such a statement does not require any PHYSICAL action at all; it simply requires listening, and then registering the statement in one’s mind.

    At Tarry Scant there’s even a Fenn quote that reads: “It is not likely that anyone will find it [the chest] without FOLLOWING the clues, at least in their mind”.

    And then there’s this Fenn comment >>> “it [the poem] will show you where to go if you FOLLOW its directions”.

    The word “follow” can simply mean to read and comprehend, as one would read and comprehend a map. Indeed, I think that is what Fenn meant in the many times he used the word “follow”. He didn’t necessarily mean “physically follow”. He meant follow along in your mind’s eye; while you’re sitting at home, for example, follow the route on the map from point A to point B to point C. Who hasn’t done that?

    It’s been my observation for a long time that searchers take Fenn’s verbal statements in the most commonly understood meaning ONLY, thus unwittingly shutting out other meanings that actually apply to the hunt.

    I think searchers would be well advised to pause, and consider how some of his verbal comments might have been misunderstood. And of course, as one poster misunderstands Fenn’s meaning, that misunderstanding gets interpreted as fact, and repeated by others in some forum as fact.

    Misunderstanding what Forrest Fenn actually means will not lead one to the treasure chest, regardless of how popular that misunderstanding may be with other searchers.

    Ken (in Texas)

    • Ken,
      Important point you make. There is nothing that says you need to be anywhere near WWWH or in the canyon down, or even that those sites are reachable in any reasonable way. But, IMO you do need to finally put in at the home of Brown in order to travel to the chest. WWWH could be 10 miles up an impassible canyon with no roads going to it.

      That doesn’t mean I’m going to ignore the Mammoth/Yankee Jim/Joe Brown Putin solves though.

      • mBG… How about Fenn saying this in 2017 The Lure ;
        “You’re going to have to figure out the clues. Go to the first clue, and then the clues are consecutive after that….”
        I think going to the first clue puts the searcher in the correct search zone. Else…why would he have said countless times that folks had figured/deciphered the first two clues and had gotten close to the treasure…but went right on by/walked past?

        • “You’re going to have to figure out the clues. Go to the first clue, and then the clues are consecutive after that….”

          That also sounds like the clues can be understood to some factor beforehand. The question now is; Does that mean a full comprehension of what is need to be done on site? or a simply understanding of what a clue represents and/or might be might be explaining? ~ an action, planning for, to observe etc… line of thinking ?

          But it’s more than *obvious* we need to physically start at the first clue…
          With that said, and fenn’s comment he followed the clues, it seems apparent he started at the first clue as well…not a later clue. But I’m sure the “ALL” word will appear somewhere once more.

          • I’m a firm believer that Fenn has made it clear as murky water that folks can decipher/figure out/learn what the clues say/mean beforehand…but must be on-site to find the blaze and complete the deed. Also…his *most direct route* answer about the return trip, to me, is a pretty good tip if one can be *sure* they are in the correct area to *begin* with. I think this holds true no matter the conditions.

          • Seeker,

            In my findings of clue solves you don’t have to
            “physically” start at the correct WWWH if you understand what and where it is, but you will “physically” pass it along with HoB as you take the “canyon down” trail. Of course while you are physically walking (hiking) down this trail you will not pass any other clue solve until the put in spot. Now on this trail the nfbtftw end place is the “put in” spot trail. This put in trail (not a designated trail) has been passed by many and is passed every day by people and most likely some searchers on occasions. But mostly people hiking this main trail. Why do they pass this poem put in trail, because they have other reasons for staying on the main trail. They might just be sightseeing, using it for exercise or have a specific destination in mind.
            This last reason is maybe why searchers are walking by clues solves, they have a plan with a specific destination farther down the main trail.

            Ok back to the “put in” trail. You might ask, you said you passed the hoB back in the first part of the trail so how can you now put in below the home of Brown? Well easy answer, this “put in” trail is “below” in “elevation” not “directly” below hoB. So to say that hoB can be really anywhere in the clue solves area and would still work if it is “higher” then the put in point. It just happens that hoB is nearer to WWWH then the put in point.

            Now all your other clue solves follow suit after you start on this put in trail. You will “physically” walk beside npuyc creek. Then you will “physically” walk by heavy loads, but just passed this point you will “physically” pass by npuyc creek heading up to water high. Now at this point water high, is this the point where you look for the blaze? or is “If you’ve “been wise” and found the blaze” at another point along this trail and you had already seen it, that is my dilemma?

            So in closing, this is how it plays out for my clue solve area. I believe I have 8 of 9 clues solved and that was accomplished with the poem, maps, some research of the area, botg and yes the word that is key, which helped me in finding what I believe is the correct WWWH clue solve.

            That’s all I got for now but if I do understand Forrest blaze there might be more to this chase.

            Good luck in finding what your seeking, Seeker.


          • Bur…at this stage of your search efforts, do you believe that the blaze can be predetermined? Meaning, that you will know what you are looking for.

          • Ken,

            That’s just it, I’m not sure. The “been wise” has me wondering did I miss something on the trail to water high or did I miss something in “hear me all and listen good” comments ATF. Or is the blaze something small simple but stands out and I’m looking for something big that stands out.
            For now I’m stumped. i’m going look at all my photos and listen to Forrest’s comments about the blaze and see if I see a connection.

            Thanks for the reply Ken.


          • No problem Bur. I get excited for folks when they really feel confident and say it in a humble way. I’m still hobbled with commitments and can’t seem to escape… so others adventures keep the juice moving.
            I believe the blaze is in the poem…and I also believe that size does not equate if you can figure it out… and know where it is. Just my gut talking. Shoot…maybe you snapped a shot of it!

          • I used to know Ben Wise.

            Maybe if he was still around he could find the treasure.

        • @ken
          “You’re going to have to figure out the clues. Go to the first clue, and then the clues are consecutive after that….”

          Good point! In that ATF he certainly is saying “Go to”, not “begin at”.
          That’ll lower the noise a bit.

          • meBigGuy;

            Try this one: http://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2550897
            (9:16) (4/13/13)

            **Jessie: If an unemployed guy in a pickup truck is driving across Texas to have a look, you don’t necessarily need local knowledge of, local geographical knowledge?

            Forrest: No the first clue is in the poem is “Begin it where warm waters halt.” that’s the first clue. If you don’t, if you can’t figure that clue out, you don’t have anything.”

            Seems pretty obvious from what Forrest says that you have to “Begin at” the first clue – “Begin it where…”: JDA

          • “Begin it” does not, in and of itself, mean you have to be physically there or that Forrest was actually there to travel to the hidey spot. It’s just the point from which your journey could begin, and can be up a long trail you never really travel but, later, finally “put -in” somewhere else. “Go to” is a bit stronger implying you will actually go there. But, even when he says he followed the clues, it doesn’t indisputably mean he physically started at WWWH at 80 years old.

          • And then there is this “in your mind”
            Q. When you wrote the poem, did you start with the first clue or the ninth?

            A. ” I knew all along where I wanted to hide the treasure so I didn’t need a map or any information to write the poem. Everything was in my head. It took me a while to get the wording exactly how I wanted it. Counting the clues and hiding the chest came later. It is not likely that anyone will find it without following the clues, at least in their mind.”

          • meBigGuy;

            Nothing I can say will change your mind, and that is OK. Sit in your armchair and figure it all out, and if you never leave that chair, I will guarantee you will never hold the treasure. Every trip begins with the first step.

            If I say, “Let’s take a trip from Phoenix to Los Angeles – what is the most important thing we have to do – both of us have to get to Phoenix – Otherwise I will forever be sitting in Pocatello, and you will forever be sitting in your hometown, and we will never make that trip.

            Forrest says to get out of your armchair and get out there and find the treasure – paraphrasing – so why are you so intent on believing you have to solve it all from your armchair? Oh well, one less person I need to worry about finding it – YEA!!! JDA

          • Well, if you love the outdoors enough to search somewhere where you can’t “go in confidence”, then more power to you. I’m waiting for the roads to open (some are 7/15) and the grizzly’s to peace out a bit.

            But I don’t see the connection between analyzing the possibilities and your snide armchair remark. Did it make you feel better? Like you don’t do your share of armchair analysis. Like the Powder River or Bighorn Basin Kt boundary areas are a place that would be special to Fenn.

    • Ken (in Texas),
      I agree completely that you do not need to *physically* follow all the clues.
      Fenn probably followed most of the clues in his mind until he needed BOTG to hide the chest.

      As (other) ken pointed out, Fenn said to go to the first clue but he never said to go to all the clues but it’s obvious to me you need to be at the last clues to retrieve the chest.

      • another good one to remember is Fenn Diagrams 4th Q…Fenn ends his follow the clues spiel with “…at least in your mind.”

      • If you do not follow all of the steps, I believe you will miss an unstated step that will prevent you from completing task. I think you will only know once you have been there and are sure of several clues.

    • Hi Ken (in Texas),
      I’m repeating the same remark I gave to Peasy on WWWH thread to your post.

      Why does Fenn have to say everything we needed to know? He can say anything he wants to say. It may be helping or hurting the searchers. It’s each searcher’s job to decide which hints or words he says should be correctly interpreted or understood to find the chest. Are you going to follow or believe 100% of all what Fenn says and has been saying until now? I find it very naive to act like that. Sorry to say this, but IMO it’s not sensible action at all.

      If you believe that “FOLLOW” only means that you have to follow the clues Fenn gave, at least on your minds, you are not exploring his words fully. I’m just suggesting another fresh idea that you have to “physically” follow the clues, not just in your minds. Fenn also said “There are no short cuts”. What do you think Fenn means with this saying? I understood that there is no way you can reach the blaze, for example, without passing the WWWH, CD, hoB, and no place for the Meek.

      Another point to think about. If you don’t have any idea about the big picture Fenn talked about before he mentioned about short cuts, you have a long way to go to find the chest IMHO.

      — MK

      • I think that the “no shortcuts” is to get people from trying to stop finding the Home of Brown before they solve WWWH

        • Agreed JimB and also people trying to find a blaze on Google Earth or hiking or driving around before trying to find WWWH.

          • Hi JimB and Jake,
            I still think “no short cuts” mention is not only used in solving the poem as you said, but also physically applied after solving the poem and when you’re out there during your BOTG.
            — MK

          • Before seeing “my blaze with my two eyes” while search hiking, I found “my blaze” on google earth.

            Here’s a question for searchers . . . have you ever felt as if you were being “taunted by the blaze”?

            I felt this way at one time, before realizing that what I — at the time — thought was the blaze was probably not what FF had in mind per the final
            (published) version of the poem. All IMO.

          • “Taunted by the blaze????” Well, not really. Perplexed by it – YUP. I have been in my general search area for 42 months. I have seen one particular “BLAZE” for all of these months. Last year, I decided that it WAS the blaze, but with no real reason, other than it is a prominent land feature.

            A month or so ago I finally figured out WHY it was THE blaze. Once I figured it out, it made perfect sense. It took seeing this prominent land feature from one particular angle for it to become obvious why it was THE blaze – or at least I hope that it is.

            What does the TS Eliot poem say about arriving where we started – and KNOW IT FOR THE FIRST TIME!!!

            “We shall not cease from our exploration
            And at the end of all our exploring
            Will be to arrive where we started
            And know the place for the first time.”

            YUP – YUP I now know what those four lines mean – I think JDA

  24. I submitted my paperwork for vacation days in July. I asked my wife if she wanted to go west and search for the treasure and she said yes! This will be her second trip searching and my 4th… This will also likely be the last for both of us. I’m pretty confident in my solution so I doubt I would ever come up with anything better than what I currently have. I’m excited to get to the place that I couldn’t last year. Hopefully the weather will be more agreeable than last year! I’m at the point where I don’t want to research anything else because the only thing it does is muddy the waters.

    I would like to thank all of you fine folks here on HOD for rekindling that spark that got me started years ago. After my trip last year I seemed to lose interest in the chase and struggled to get back into the swing of it. I started reading the blog again and it got me back in the game!

    Here’s to feeling excited and nervous!!!


    • Ain’t never gonna find it if you don’t get out and try. Really good decision to give it another whirl. July is right around the corner…

  25. 4/27/15 koat
    Forrest says along the lines…did you really do that? I figured if i changed my mind i could always go back…at that point i decided i will never go back.
    Yet it is his desire to return there with his last breaths.

    On the road with charlie part one
    When asked why did you hide the chest? ff goes on about i wanted, my this, me that. All i, my, me and im and mine then right near the end of the statement he makes comment….100000 people out looking in the six years since WE started this.

    • We is us. Everyone from the publisher, all y’all, and me too. If you ask me what I did, there’ll be a lot of I and me. Inconsistencies are funny things. I won’t bore you with my life story or career, but I have learned what appears inconsistent to me is an opportunity for learning. It exists, but doesn’t make sense. If I care enough I’ll figure it out (eventually). All of us are trying to understand what in blazes FF is talking about. I feel so inadequate.

  26. So what just minor inconsistencies.
    What i feel is of great value is forrest closing statement….paraphrasing
    Whoever finds it is going to bust out in laughter or pass out. If youre not prepared for it…i was prepared, i built it.
    Everytime i look at it i shake my head.
    I built it? Everytime i look at it?
    Couple this with his final 6 ?s on mw. Rather his answers to those questions and you have as the hidey spot….
    Somewhere that will remain mostly unchanged for the next millenium except for (at the time of 6?s) changes that nature will make / has made. He uses this statement to support his assurance that the chest still lay in wait.
    Somewhere that he can see that which he has built to secret the chest (everytime or anytime he looks or wants to look) without visiting.
    Indulgence must lie within or amongst something that can be seen remotely from a distance and it would be obvious if it were to be removed or disturbed by forces other than nature.
    Forrest says he took the contents in one trip and the chest in the other but he didnt say he took only the contents or only the chest.

  27. Page 33 in TTOTC has a pond. What is in the bottom of the pond?
    I think the clue to a place in the poem is tied to the drawing. FF talks of rocks to grind into marbles. I think those are rocks in the pond.

    • I don’t see a pond on pg 33 TTOTC TS.
      They are playing rounds of marbles inside a designated area where the marbles should be.

      Maybe your imagination is on steroids?

      I thought the hints in the book were in text form and not by someone that drew the illustrations.

      • Jake,
        No steroids. Just my way of seeing things. I also see a waterfall on the first person standing on the left and the water goes around to the right of the picture.

  28. What does it mean “To see the Forest through the Trees?

    To say the idiom, “cannot see the forest for the trees” means that a person or organization cannot see the big picture because the focus is too much on the details.

    “Can’t see the Forest for the Trees”
    An expression used of someone who is too involved in the details of a problem to look at a situation as a whole.

    What IS IT (X) that we’re ALL just SIMPLY not SEEING?

    • How about this, “It’s not something you have to see to believe” ,but,…. ” It’s something you have to believe to see it. ” kids have the advantage because they will believe anything , they will see!!! IMO

  29. Will Salvation be Inevitable?

    “A Physical Presence is needed to complete the Solve”

    With all the talk upthread about “In your mind” and “In their mind” and “Thinking about the first clues to a point where BOTG becomes Inevitable” I believe there is sufficient proof/evidence that MOST of the chase can be completed from the comfort of our homes.

    “Google Earth cannot help with the last clue”
    What IS the LAST CLUE?
    Originally the LAST CLUE was Forrest leaving his automobile in the parking lot of Denver’s Nature and Science Museum.

    The Poem has nine (9) clues, that is what we are told. But is the ninth (9th) clue in the Poem the LAST and FINAL CLUE?

    I Believe that there is a tenth (10th) Clue. I believe the tenth (10th) Clue reveals the EXACT LOCATION of the TREASURE.

    Originally Forrest’s tenth (10th) Clue was to leave his vehicle at the Denver Museum But I believe Forrest devised a more Profound and Elaborate Final Clue that once found will bring Salvation Inevitably.

  30. BadgeR wrote:

    “Forrest says along the lines…did you really do that? I figured if i changed my mind i could always go back…at that point i decided i will never go back.
    Yet it is his desire to return there with his last breaths.

    This is why it is foolish, in my opinion, to take his verbal comments literally or at face value. Which is what I have been preaching here for 4 years. Many of his statements are indeed inconsistent.

    But that is the nature of verbalizing on the spot. If some magazine writer or TV interviewer or treasure hunter followed you around for 10 years, you’d say things that were inconsistent, too. Just like you, Fenn is human.

    Yet one of the characteristics of most searchers is that they take every word he verbally says … literally. They seem to think that Forrest Fenn is the name of a whiz-bang computer at MIT that is always consistent and accurate.

    But no computer wrote that poem. It was written over a very long span of time. Fenn had years to perfect those six stanzas to read exactly like he wanted them.

    You can take it to the bank that every word, every phrase, every line is intentional and has some specific meaning. And in the poem there are no inconsistencies.

    Give the man a break. Let him be inconsistent with his verbal comments >>> they are not the poem.

    Ken (in Texas)

    • Unless he has deliberately repeated what he has said. Like being buried or not, coins, etc…I think some of his ATF ‘s need to be interpreted exactly as stated. Especially the one’s that have been forefront. Like:
      a few are in tight focus with a word that is key.
      Too many put their own spin on what he means without considering what he is saying, IMO.
      But you are right Ken. There are just times that f needs a break. An understanding that he may just make a mistake. But, he is pretty good at clearing those times up.

  31. If it’s possible to marry the clues to places on the map, why can’t the little girl from India, get past the first two clues? Just curious.

    • James… it is…a little girl *in* India. And then Fenn said *cannot get closer* than the first two clues. I believe those two parts of the comment are quite different than what folks say and believe.

      • Hi Ken, Well it’s still the same question, we can assume that she has Google earth, and the poem. So if we can marry the clues to places on the map, why can’t she?

        • Hi James… I agree that those words could/maybe/probably be taken in that context on the surface…however, Fenn has shown fairly consistent resolve in trying to answer the Q’s posed to him. There are some inconsistencies that have been hashed over, hashed over, bashed over the years, but I think most of those are *on the spot* live-type interviews. The Q’s that he has time to answer(email from Jenny et al) seem to be more carefully worded and much more consistent. He even remarks in one such that the q’s are answered as asked.
          The little Indie one has been beaten to smithereens and I think it best that each searcher needs to commit to what they believe and not what others think it means.
          My bride took me to dinner a couple of weeks back…and wouldn’t you know it… a new Indian restaurant had just opened that she wanted to try. Great food…but I had so many Q’s for the waitress…and most of them were not food related.

        • James, I have to jump in again.
          You said; So if we can marry the clues to places on the map, why can’t she?
          It’s not: marry the clues to *places* [plural] on the map.
          It’s; …marry the clues to *A* place on a map.

          And has Ken implied, this is a Q&A sent to fenn so he can read it over and return it with answers. Something he can take his time, think about, how he would like to say / word his answer… not unlike many emailed question fenn answered.

          As far as what maps or map we should be looking at, I think GE are many maps, or at least, different viewings of mapping… one example is we can see all of the RM’s and Zoom to a more specific area within. That’s two different paper style maps right there. Other options in the GE program give a searcher many many mapping types in one place.

          But, in all fairness, Little Indy didn’t have that option, because only ‘a’ [single] map of the RM’s was mentioned in the question… ‘assumptions’ are going to lead many into deep rabbit hole that even Alice couldn’t drag them out of.

          A map is a map, the more detail a map the better … right?

          • @Seeker — I suppose one may think that f’s written replies deserve more attention to actual wording than his verbal ones, but it seems that that exercise can be taken too far.

            “I would advise new searchers to look for the clues in my poem and try to marry them to a place on a map.”

            is an appropriate way of saying

            I would advise new searchers to look for the clues in my poem and try to marry [each of] them to a place on a map.

            I think marrying each clue to a different place is a reasonable interpretation of this comment of f’s.

            If you’re going to insist on taking his written responses literally and to the exact word, are you saying that this advice is only to be used by new searchers and that f has effectively said that experienced searchers under no circumstances should consider this approach?

          • Yo seeker…you always seem to omit/forget the Q from Ron 2014 over @ Jenny’s when you go off on that **place** tangent tangent tangenttttt. His answer to Ron in part…”The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might exist in 100 years….” Operative words would be; PLACES and THEY. I have to kinda agree with aardvark … somewhat.

          • Ken, aardvarkbark,

            While it is not unreasonable to think the intent is saying places of each clue. The Idea is A place on a map that all the clues are contiguous. Another-words touching.
            So, in reality it can be both… each physical representation of a clue, is part of the same place.

            Yep, the “places” the clues refer to did”

            That doesn’t clarify those places having a large distance between them.
            Think of it like a car… it is a single thing [place] with many components [places], with each component having it’s own place within a single thing… the car… working as one.
            Unfortunately, one would have to think on a smaller scale, rather than a huge area. The other thought is, the observation of the clues from a single point with clues extending farther away.

            In this case the clue are of a distance, apart, on their own, but we don’t need to go to them [ at least not all of them ]… we just need to be at the first clue and see how it unfold. So can “marry the clue to a place on a map” refer to the place we are told we must have and be at? WWsH… in an observational solution? LOL in this case; a map only helps a searcher to get to the first clue… [funny how the second clue always pops up. huh?] A deciphering of the other clues is all that is needed to be seen.

            It’s all about how the poem can be read, to have different understandings of how it could unfold.
            Or we can stick with the same old same old. And the idea, nobody can follow directions… on a map or in the field.

            I have a hard time buying into that… there are some very experienced woodsmen [ and ladies/PC fluff. ] out there searching. { John Brown, Goofy, Dal just to name a few… folks who love the outdoors and travel throughout as much as fenn has [most of their lives]

            I think many just want all this to be [the challenge] simplistic from the get go… The norm, or normal style, we have in our heads of treasure hunts. line of thinking.
            I just don’t see fenn adhering to the norm.

      • LOL Ken,

        Don’t ya just cringe when you read the words: Why *can’t* the little girl from India, *get past* the first two clues?
        That’s almost saying, a searcher doesn’t need to be at WWsH…
        “You’re going to have to figure out the clues. *Go to the first clue,* and then the clues are consecutive after that….”
        Or the concept we just have to solve first clue on and we’re golden.
        Dear Forrest,
        You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is:
        a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and
        b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”
        Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail? ~ Steve
        No, *if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence.* Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?
        Your question reminds me of another:  You leave home and walk a straight line for a mile, turn 90 degrees left and walk a curved line for a mile and shoot a bear. Then you turn 90 degrees left again and walk a straight line back to your home. What color is the bear?f

        “I mean, there’s people driving down the street looking for a blaze, because that’s one of the clues, but you can’t start in the middle of the poem and find the treasure, I don’t think, I mean, it would be a miracle if someone did.”

        End of commentary… I got my proof book to day and need to review it for possible printing problems. I have to admit, I’m a bit excite to get in on the bookshelf, finally.

  32. Ken,

    Your words of wisdom should go down in Fennistory! They should from this time forward be memorialized and featured on the front page of DalNeitzel.com, to be known as the “Fenn-Ken Doctrine.” IMHO

  33. After being out of print for several years, Ric Hajovsky’s (that’s me) book about Forrest Fenn and San Lazaro is back in print as an “on demand book” on Amazon books. I wrote The Lost Kivas of San Lazaro at the same time Forrest was preparing to hide his treasure.

    Forrest had asked me to find him an antique “book of hours” box in Spain that he could use to bury it in, but I was unable to find one in time and he ended up using one that he found somewhere else. I remember holding one of the gold nuggets that he placed in the box and it was larger than a turkey egg.

    I consider Forrest a very good friend and I am pleased that he is enjoying this treasure quest. However, other than what I had to say in my book, The Lost Kivas of San Lazaro, I will not answer any questions regarding the treasure.

    Good luck, treasure hunters!
    Ric Hajovsky

    • Ric,

      Thank you for making this available again. I may make this a birthday gift for myself. That’s 4 months away and I’ve some other tasks to conclude before I can indulge myself, but I do have this earmarked for my fall reading by the fire.

      If you happen to see or talk to Forrest, please do say “hello”, for me.



  34. I need a recommendation for a good metal detector. Can I purchase a good one for under $200 or will I need one more expensive up to $500 to find the treasure chest? I need one that can find something that may be under water or under rocks or under log 12 inches or more deep. Would prefer something less costly, but want something that works well. Thanks for any help.

    • Hi Finder,

      can you say what was the reason that inspired you to think about using metal detector in TC search?
      Before I also didn’t use metal detectors but after my last BOTG I have started to think about it.
      In one source we can read:
      “there’s no need to dig. Fenn has left clues that the treasure is above ground. Columnist Tony Doukopil says, “He told me the chest is ‘exposed’ to rain and snow, and could be scorched in a forest fire. He told me the box, which is just 10 inches by 10 inches, is unlocked—suggesting it’s someplace where it is unlikely to be toppled or otherwise thrown open.”
      In other source we read:
      McGarrity: “Will a metal detector help?”
      Fenn: “A metal detector will help you if you’re in exactly the right spot.”
      My question to all avid searchers: if the TC is above ground (and could be scorched in a forest fire) why metal detector will help to find it? There is very serious contradiction: TC is above ground and at the same time it is not visible to naked eye.
      Last BOTG I found very interesting spot (very private) that is located “below the home of Brown”. Some object near this spot could be qualified as “blaze”.
      But next step should be:
      “Look quickly down, your quest to cease”
      If TC is above ground everybody (even simple hiker) can easy look down with naked eye and find it. It’s very unlikely because Forrest said:
      “Nobody is going to accidentally stumble on that treasure chest. They’re going to have to figure out the clues and let the clues take them to that spot, f”
      Thus, if some “accidental” hiker walks right on TC spot he/she will just pass it and never know that TC was below?
      My simple conclusion: you can’t find TC visually (by sight) even if you are staying or sitting on it. Forrest excluded this possibility i.e. hide it under something. At the same time Forrest said that TC could be scorched in a forest fire. So, this “something” is not resistant to forest fire heat.

      About metal detector. I’m thinking about this model:

      • Andy S.;

        You pose an interesting question. Will a metal detector help? A metal detector is a tool. Tools can be helpful in SOME cases.

        Let’s say that you have narrowed your search area down to a 25′ X 25′ area. Would a metal detector help in determining if Indulgence is – in fact – within that 25′ square? Probably so.

        On the other hand Forrest once stated, “The person who finds the treasure will have studied the poem over and over, and thought, and analyzed and moved with confidence. Nothing about it will be accidental.

        Forrest also said: “Nobody is going to accidentally stumble on that treasure chest. They’re going to have to figure out the clues and let the clues take them to that spot.” f

        And lastly, this quote: “I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.”

        If, by following the clues, you can get within 12′. You already KNOW where to look, and what to look for – I doubt that a metal detector will be of much help.

        Do I have a metal detector? Short answer – “YES”
        Do I use it? – Short answer = “NO”
        Do I think that Indulgence is buried? I believe that it is below ground level, but that it does NOT need to be dug up. It is “Interred” or “Sepultured.”

        Lastly, here is what Forrest said about Metal Detectors:

        Dear Forrest,
        When you hide the chest you most like was not aware about how fast modern technologies will be developed and become available to many searchers. For example, they have now remotely controllable drones with high-resolution cameras. In nearest future treasure searchers will have possibility to use drones with distant metal detector radars that can fly over big areas and detect all metal objects on the surface.
        My question is: will these modern devices (drones with cameras and metal detectors) provide more advantages to high-tech searchers in comparison with the traditional searchers (simple hikers that just visit each place personally)?
        Sincerely, Natalia

        I have no doubt that they will Natalia.f

        So, I guess that the choice is yours – Good Luck with your decision, and with your search – JDA

        • What happens if the blaze ends up being a mark [say 8′ above ground level] and the chest sits a few inches below it in a crevice.. not that I adhere to the thought.. but it does seem that if someone made it this far into the correct solution, they would know what is needed for their “quest to cease”.

          Modern devices can help, but only if we know what is need to be known of first… most folks are not going to hold a metal detector over their heads, and ground detecting [ because we might ‘think’ it’s buried ] could still walk by the chest.

          And should you know to do [what is needed to know of, this far in the poem], is it worth the extra money, time, and effort to bother? I’m kinda reminded about the idea, ‘there are no short cuts’.. maybe that applies / is relevant at the blaze as well.

          • I agree Seeker;

            As I said, if the clues have gotten you this close, you probably know where to look, and what to look for. At least I hope so – 🙂 JDA

          • I think ‘hope’ is the key word many work from. That’s not the icing on the cake, so to speak.
            LOL and close only counts in omega toss… registered trade mark pending.

          • Seeker;

            If this Chase has taught me anything, it is a wee bit of humility. Rather than say that I KNOW where it is, I now say “I Hope I know”. Does this diminish my confidence? Not really. My Search Team will be venturing out soon – “I hope”. Once in Wyoming I have confidence that they will find Indulgence – – – or so “I hope” – JDA

          • JDA,

            You misunderstood. When it comes to the blaze, there shouldn’t be any hoping about it. Not this late in the clues. If one is hoping to seek the blaze with metal detectors, or aimlessly walking around, kicking over stones and logs, flying a drone overhead, using night vision glasses… is only hoping. And more than likely has something wrong with their solve.

          • I can agree with that Seeker. As the poem says, ” If you’ve been wise and found the blaze…” To me, that means that before you put BotG, you have a pretty good idea as to what the blaze will be, and will recognize it the moment you see it – JMO – JDA

        • Hi JDA,

          thanks for your answer and advises – you are one of the best experts in the Chase.
          I agreed with your idea that TC can be “interred” or “sepultured” to avoid accidental finding by simple visual methods. Indeed, when you have BOTG even in very remote places in most cases you can find hiker’s traces there. But majority of hikers even don’t know about Chase, blaze, TC and etc. Theoretically they can stop near blaze, sit above TC, eat some candy and continue to hike.
          Well, maybe I need to re-visit my recently discovered spot (it was around 25′ X 25′, very obscure space but at the same time just 30-40 minutes from closest parking lot) and use metal detector there. Maybe it was not right spot but I must be sure 100%. In my next BOTG I’ll always take metal detector.

          • Hey Andy, by no means am I one of the best experts in the Chase. Just like everyone, I do not have Indulgence. I MAY have a fairly good memory, and I know how to “find things”.

            In TTOTC – “Teachers With Ropes,” Forrest says about himself, “All I had going for me was some imagination, hard work and a logical mind.” f

            The same holds true for me: “All I have going for me is some imagination, I am willing to work hard and I have what I like to call, a logical mind.” This by no means make me an expert!!! JDA

      • Thanks for recommendation, looks like that model might work. I have a primary location and a couple of secondary locations I am considering in a very small search area for my solve to clue number 9 (which seems really large out in the open with BOTG). I have no doubt whatsoever as to clues 1-8. While I doubt that the treasure is buried, I need to quickly search around or under trees or rocks in the vicinity. I don’t want to have to move things around with a digging bar (as I did on failed searches at what I later learned were clues 6 and 8) to find out if a metal detector can make my life easier (although carrying around a digging bar is giving me a great workout and serves as bear protection also)

        • Finder ~ ‘ I have no doubt whatsoever as to clues 1-8.’

          Assuming clue 9 is the blaze in your search… isn’t clues 1 – 8 supposed to bring you to it? The blaze.
          If you haven’t “found” the blaze with 8 clues, I’m not sure how you or anyone else can say; no doubt whatsoever.

          It’s the whole premise of the challenge…
          ~ …been wise and found the blaze…
          ~ If you can find the blaze… the distance to the chest would be obvious.

        • Thanks for your response, Finder.
          Digging bar is definitely better than nothing – I wish I had it last time. Not for bear protection – for them I have bear spray and hand flares. http://www.adventuresafety.com.au/water/comet-red-hand-flare/
          It’s very simple and convenient device that can scare even big grizzly bear. One my friend used it when grizzly already started to attack him and said that he never saw such funny reaction from such big animal – grizzly had used all 4 legs as brakes and run away with crazy speed.
          BTW, I like your confidence in your solutions for 1-9 clues. I have the same but only for clues 1-4 (#4 is hoB). Other 5 clues are variable for me. Especially blaze. Actually each big stone/boulder could be a blaze. So, I agree with you – it will be better have a metal detector and quickly search around. According to Forrest in final spot it should be enough big space for body – maybe he masked this space with stones when decided to secreted only TC there.
          I wish you good luck in your TC search. In each BOTG I usually have very funny adventures and numerous photos and videos.

      • Andy, he said that it is not under a man made object, did not say that is not under a natural object. He said that it was hidden, it is up to us to figure out how, In a hole, under a log or rock, in a crevice, and so on. The possibilities are almost endless. My personal thought is under a juniper tree- “Toys are Forever” – Brave and in the Wood. imo.
        A metal detector would be helpful but not necessary. Also they are illeagle in YNP, don’t get caught using one there.

        • Hi Not Obsessed.

          You say, “Andy, he said that it is not under a man made object,”
          Can you please provide a source for this statement?

          Only thing that the “Cheat Sheet” says is – “♦Not in out house…..not associated with a structure” Says nothing about UNDER and says nothing about “man made” – Doesn’t use the term “object” – Just sayin’ – JDA

        • My last 5 search trips (which included hiking along the
          same creek every time) took me to a place hundreds of
          miles from YNP. But good luck to everyone who searches
          there. I heard some talk about how gorgeous the scenery
          is in and near the park. But also that the steam from Old
          Faithful is invisible to a typical human naked eye.

          As always, IMO.

  35. In the last stanza it says if you are brave and in the wood.
    Maybe the TC.is in a hollowed out log or other type of wood , where wont be visible yet above ground, and still exposed to weather elements
    Just a thought.

    • The log probably couldn’t withstand the “test of time” (by concealing the
      TC very well for thousands of years), in my opinion. I don’t think the TC
      is hidden under a log.

  36. Seeker i sure would like to chat with you I’m heading back in BOTG this comming weekend my email is kahuna.primo.jd@gmail hope to chat.

  37. This link may be old news to some of the veteran Chasers on this site, but it was new to me when I happened across it this morning searching Forrest’s old blog on the “Old Santa Fe Trading Company” website:


    This entry is dated 8/24/2000 and therefore is the only entry that predates Forrest’s hiding of the chest and the publishing “Thrill of the Chase” by a good number of years.

    I don’t think there are any hints to be found in this one; it’s just a really fun piece to read. Forrest deals the “clubby fussbudgets” of archaeology a terrific broadside of rational argument. It made me smile! Huzzah, Forrest! 🙂

  38. For anyone interested, there are 2 Eric Sloane paintings coming up for auction in a Austin, TX. sale June 22. Go to the Invaluable website and search “sloane”. Both are of a southwest theme. One is the iconic church at Ranchos de Taos and the other is a twilight scene of a Penitente morada with a cross stuck in the snow of the foreground. The second came through the Fenn Gallery in the 80s as noted on the reverse. A good chance to pick them up at a relative discount, maybe.

  39. Does anyone else here feel like we have been having HASH for dinner for the last 9+ years or more. It’s the same thing over and over and over again. What’s for dinner? Hash or Re-Hash. Time to get a new Chef……

    As always – just my opinion.

  40. Have you ever taken a canoe down the Yellowstone River and brought along a shofar? I have and it was a blast. Try it sometime.

  41. SPARROW,
    WELL, if you started at
    the LAKE, & made it to
    Livingston,. That would be
    something to toot your
    Horn about. 🙂

  42. First time poster here, so please excuse me if I’m not following appropriate posting guidelines. I have a question… has there ever been a discussion here specifically centered around “questions that FF has declined to answer”? I’m an ex Odyssey of the Mind coach, and one of the first things my teams would do when the new seasons rules were published was to go through each rule and ask several questions. Why was the rule written? What advantage could be gained if the rule wasn’t there? And lastly, how can we gain that advantage without breaking the rule? Inverse thinking if you will. Using a similar thought process for the chase, we could ask; “What has FF declined to answer (or comment on)? What advantage or knowledge could be attained if he did answer the question. And lastly, what could be implied or inferred (inversely) by the lack of response? e.g. Why doesn’t FF tell us when he hid the treasure? Because if we knew when, we could perhaps track his movements.

    • The most interesting one for me was this one:

      “Question posted 6/26/2014:

      Q: Can the blaze be pre-determined by the poem or can it only be determined at the search area?- becky

      A: Becky, you are a rascal to ask that question and I have been sitting here for about fifteen minutes trying to decide what to say. Well, it has been thirty minutes now and I think I’ll pass on the question. Sorry.f”


      • The question asked by Stephanie about the blaze is another interesting one.

        Q: Has anyone seen or mentioned the blaze to you?

        FF’s response was basically that a yes or no answer to either of the questions would reveal too much.

        Figuring out the possible combinations of Yes and No to her question is a fun mental exercise. If they have mentioned it (Yes), but haven’t seen it (No), for example, how is such possible and/or revealing too much?

        • I’m not convinced that it would “reveal too much” about
          what/where the blaze is. But too much about how close
          a solver is to having detailed, thorough knowledge about the TC’s location might be revealed, as far as FF is concerned. He may not want to reveal that someone has provided to him evidence of having been within 12 feet of the TC without finding/retrieving it — that is, if this is a likely scenario. I suppose only FF knows this for sure. As always, IMO.

        • The only reason I can think of for not answering the question, might be that the blaze isn’t what we typically envision the blaze to be. IMO

    • Hokier;

      Welcome to the Chase. The most obvious thing that he will not commit to is whether it is buried or not. From the Cheat Sheet that is at the top of every thread: “He never said it was buried (he never said it wasn’t)” He has skirted around a number of topics, but has (almost always) answered a question as it was asked

      You answered your own question: Why doesn’t FF tell us when he hid the treasure? Because if we knew when, we could perhaps track his movements. – Forrest has said that he will not say exactly (although he has said that it was secreted in the summer) when it was secreted for fear people would go searching rent-a-car records, flight schedules etc. – JMO – JDA

      • It shouldn’t matter much whether the TC is buried. Depending on
        the (agreed upon?) definition of “buried”, it may be difficult to accurately
        assess the status of the TC.

        A good solve of the poem should lead a searcher to a very small specific search area. If the TC can’t be seen there, then some other visible item should indicate where to look for the TC. I plan to wear gloves. All part of my opinion.

    • Also on 6/26/2014 on MW: “Has anyone seen or mentioned the blaze to you? ~Stephanie”

      FF: “Thanks Stephanie for the questions. I have read them several times very carefully. They appear subtle on the surface but they aren’t. A yes or no to either question would give too much away, so I’ll pass. Sorry, and I’m aware that some searchers will pick me apart for this answer. f”

      • At the same time Forrest said:
        “Some of the searchers have been within 500 feet I know”.
        “Searchers have been within 200 feet”. Huffpost interview 02/04/15
        200-500 feet is very short distance so if Forrest response to Stephanie question is “YES” we will know that blaze is a big object visible from 200-500 feet distance. If answer is “NO” – blaze is small and you will have visual contact with it only at 12-50 feet or less (IMO).
        Thus, by not answering this questions he just avoided to give us one more clue – information about blaze size.
        Another question is about blaze color…
        I have in my collection some indirect statement from unknown source: “Forrest has also implied that the blaze is white.” Maybe JDA has some direct citation from Forrest about blaze color?
        In case of white blaze we have 2 possible combinations: 1) big white blaze (visible at 200-500 feet distance); 2) small white blaze (visible only at 12-50 feet). Anyway blaze is very stable structure and will easy withstand hundreds and thousands years.

        • Hi Andy;

          The only quote that I can find that has color is this one, and it is not much of an answer:

          The blaze is a physical thing, it’s not theoretical. Boy did I give you a big clue (Forrest chuckles after making the statement). That’s not a clue, it doesn’t take a scientist to figure out a blaze is something you can look at. … A horse has a blaze on its forehead here, ah, ah, there are rocks that have a WHITE face that could be a blaze, I mean, there is a fire that is blazing. I mean, I could give you a thousand different scenarios there. And all of them come to me by email, everyone finds a different one. The fact is, the important one is out there.
          (Interview for Australia Dateline 6/24/14 show)

          • Thanks for the links, locolobo!
            I’ll correct “Blaze” part of my database.
            JDA citation of Forrest is also very useful for search i.e. knowing that “the blaze is a physical thing, it’s not theoretical” is very important for chase. Thus, we can be sure that “blaze is something you can look at” and this object can withstand hundreds and maybe thousands years. Well, this conclusion is not a clue but something useful for future search.
            Indeed, white blaze (both big or small) will attract too much attention. It’s very unlikely that Forrest “sepulchered” TC in close proximity to some white object. So, I’ll search for grey or dark grey blazes 🙂

        • MW Q&A (6/24/2014): “Did you really say the blaze is a white streak, as has been rumored? Thank you. ~Deb”

          FF: “Thanks Deb, No, I did not say that. There is a lot of bad information floating around the blogs and many posts that are not well thought out. One person said (I’m paraphrasing) ‘He said the treasure is hidden in the trees. Then he contradicted himself and said it was in the sun. How could it be both?’ Makes me wonder if that person has ever been in the forest.f”

      • Of course someone has seen the blaze. Forrest has.

        Please stay tuned to this blog for the next few months; I expect that the TC will be found and retrieved in 2019. I also expect the event(s) will be announced on these blogs. I also expect that evidence of the find (that is, photos and videos) will be provided by the finder. Specific detailed info about the location of the hidey space is a whole ‘nuther matter, though. The finder may want to keep that information a secret. I think that I might want to, if I were the finder. As always, IMO.

    • Hokie,

      LOL that’s a large field to hoe.

      Fenn has declined some question for years only to comment on them later.
      You said; “Why doesn’t FF tell us when he hid the treasure?”
      He didn’t for a long time, yet when asked by a classroom of students via the teachers e-mail… when did you hide the chest? “summer” was his answer.
      Fenn has been asked many times [ and declined to answer], did he follow his own clues or took a short cut? Only later to make a comment; in part; he followed the clues when he hid the treasure chest.

      I like your approach, I have and still am doing what I call a check and balance of the ATFs. But trust me… you’ll need quite a few tanks of diesel for that tractor to hoe through it all.

    • Hokiest, very good thoughts. Taken the concept one step further…what’s the best or most interesting question that hasn’t been asked of f?

      Why haven’t we heard a question if any of the hints have been identified or figured out?

      I get that f would most likely not answer that but why does that stop not seeing that question. Has no one asked him that question? If so, then we suck. Lol

      • I’ve wondered the same thing, Fundy, I’m sure others have too.

        The closest response I know of –


        Barbara – Will the subtle clues in the book be explained somewhere, sometime? (Maybe you have a book to be published once the chest is found?)

        FENN – “The hints in The Thrill of the Chase text will not be made public because they would say more than I want to reveal. Discovering which hints to use is part of the mystery.”


        • I hadn’t seen that QA before. Thanks Kraven.

          It sounded to me like there are some hints that should not be used to make your anagrams (assuming those are what you’re working to perfect). Probably those other hints will help you create the wrong one and that would extend the whole process by so many more trips..

        • Thanks, JA K. I have heard of that F response before but forgot about it. Thanks for sharing it.

          Good on Barbara for asking that!

      • Thanks FD. My guess is that the best questions haven’t been asked (or answered) publicly for fear that “lurkers” like me may be able to infer a new “angle” or gain a new piece of knowledge that that could then be applied privately to their own solution,or perhaps to help inspire a new private solution. In poker terms people may be holding their cards close to their chest. More to my original point tho, and like FF has noted before (and I’m paraphrasing) ‘It’s not what is being said on the Blogs, it’s what’s being whispered on the side’. So… tell me… What AIN’T being talked about? That’s the deafening silence I would like to hear! (Hear me all, and hear me good. 😉 )

        • Hi Hokie;

          Every searcher probably ain’t talkin’ about what they see as the most critical new piece of info they have recently found. I know “I” aint talkin’ about three valuable things I found during this winter’s recess.
          1) I aint alkin’ about what I found in TTOTC that confirms that I have the correct WWWsH.
          2) I ain’t talkin’ about a hint I found in TTOTC that could be the “map” I needed to help figure out EXACTLY where Indulgence rests. and
          3) I ain’t talkin’ about a second “map” that I found in TTOTC that confirmed what I had found in the “map” above.

          Those are the things that “I” ain’t talkin’ about – How about you? You are new, but being new doesn’t stop one from having new and fresh ideas. What are you NOT talkin’ about? – 🙂 JDA

          • Youre talking about “confirm(s)” a couple times without confirmation on the one thing that confirms everything.
            Now I know exactly what you’re talking about.

        • I ain’t talking ’bout nothin I don’t already know is wrong, especially the things I know for sure (IMO) are right… at least until I know for sure I’m wrong about them. I suspect I’m not alone in that.

    • Those odd things. The one thing he had to come out and say was ‘not under water’. I’m sure it had to do with the unfortunate tragedies of recent years. If not, we will still be beating that horse too. Another one was the year he hid the chest. He said he didn’t want anybody looking for old rental car receipts. That makes sense to stay silent on that one. Then we have the buried vs not buried. That one I don’t know why it needs to stay a secret. Is it because it is related to one of the clues? Maybe.

      When did he find that spot, as a child or as an adult? That one will give too much away if he says he found it as a child. That will just narrow down the search area to Yellowstone Wyoming and West Yellowstone Montana. I’m not convince he found it as a child though, I think it was after they moved to NM, he was already 40 plus.

        • I think not buried, f told Stephan “while fools argue about the quest,he won’t even need a tool,as he carries out the chest.” Maybe covered with debris over the years but not buried

          • Tonto;

            I agree that it is NOT buried, in the classical sense. No dirt thrown on top of Indulgence. No need for a shovel.

            Is it below ground level? I think so. Is there at least one rock over the “hole” that it is in – Probably yes.

            Look at “Charmey and Me” and think about Indulgence being in the hole instead of a box of maize – You get the idea of how I think Forrest secreted Indulgence – JMO – JDA

          • Tonto – Sorry, I see no connection between the name “Indulgence” and a hole in the ground or a “wallow” as you suggest – JDA

          • Hi Tonto,
            There’s also “The chest is exposed to rain and snow, and could be scorched in a forest fire” and “under the right conditions wind might affect it”. How do you explain these quotes if it’s buried or hidden in the manner JDA suggests. Anyone have any ideas?

          • MM;

            Exposed = not sheltered or protected from the weather.

            Splitting hairs here. Even if in a hole, rain and snow can seep in. If “It is wet” this is an indication that at least a small amount of water CAN seep in, so technically it is not protected from the weather.

            Could be scorched by fire – I posted yesterday that temperatures over 1400 degrees F – high enough to scorch Indulgence even if in a hole.

            Under the right conditions affected by wind??? Got me on this one – Not sure what Forrest had in mind – JDA

          • JDA – Great explanation!

            As to wind:

            There was once a tornado in West Yellowstone, which Forrest’s cousin, Chip, responded to, for the ckean-up afterwards. And Forrest mentioned being blocked by fallen trees on a dirt road, also caused by high winds.

            If the tall Ponderosa pine, located close to.my hide-y spot, went down, on top of the loose earth of my mole hole, that ‘wood’ make recovery without any tools pretty difficult.


          • Regarding wind. This wind and fire thing was an answer by Forrest from a question on Jenny’s site, Forrest commented to Jenny about the wind:

            “Don’t be too confused by my wind comment Jenny. Tornadoes are wind and there aren’t too many landscapes that they can’t change. I’ll admit there aren’t too many tornadoes in the Rocky Mountains, but they do occur once in a while. f”

            You can see it here:


          • Hi Tonto: should add a caveat to that supposed Fenn quote about not needing a tool — it’s second-hand information from Stephan the Pantsless Pirate (April 2012), and even Stephan was careful to qualify it: “A mysterious fellow named ‘f’ once sent us a curious poem, part of which said somethin’ like: “…while fools argue about the quest, he won’t even need a tool, as he carries out the chest.” However, since a “tool” (such as a shovel or a metal detector) is “technology,” we can turn to a direct Forrest quote for guidance:

            “Einstein had said, ‘I don’t know what we’ll fight World War III with, but World War IV is going to be fought with sticks.’ And the technology is changing so fast. I mean, if your computer is two years old, it’s archaic today. Technology is not going to help you find that treasure.”

            That said, Google Earth is certainly technology.

          • *** *** *** ***
            MM recalled – “There’s also “The chest is exposed to rain and snow, and could be scorched in a forest fire” and “under the right conditions wind might affect it”. ”
            *** *** *** ***

            Given that the Gros Ventre Landslide and the Hebgen Quake both occurred in the search area in the 20th century, I’ve always wondered that ff could say “I don’t think earth can hurt it.”


  43. Thanks Seeker. Yeah I know it’s a big bogie, but I was really hoping that someone else had already plowed that field and published a listing of “declined to answer questions”. Which BTW in itself would have an even larger category of “answers” we could really call “FF non-answers”. 😉

    Speaking of ATF’s, I’ll throw another out there while I’m here. I’ve done a little bit of research on how primitive folks actually made marbles. From what I’ve seen, using primitive (yet ingenious) tools and methods they still took a good chunk of a day to complete one marble, yet FF claims he could make one with nothing but a piece of sandstone AND in the space of one Spanish class. Doesn’t seem likely to me, and if he didn’t, was it just poor recollection, or was there an ulterior reason for saying he did?

    • The preface to TTOTC has the following: “All of the stories that mingle among these pages are as true to history as one man can average out that truth, considering the fact that one of my natural instincts is to embellish just a little.” f Probably the above quote answers your question, but who knows? – JDA

    • Hokie: concur. Making a round marble in a short (1 hour?) class with just a piece of sandstone is one of Forrest’s tall tales. Likewise, a ball of string so large that it won’t fit through his bedroom door. (Back of the envelope calculation: if the ball is a meter in diameter, and the string cross-sectional area is 1 mm^2, you’d need 325 miles of string.)

      • Being told about Forrest’s tall tales is scary to me, and shaking my confidence in FF’s honesty.

        Regardless, though, one more serious and thorough search trip is in the
        cards for me, I believe . . . and after that I’m outta here (except for reporting on the experience). Good luck to all searchers. All IMO.

    • Hokie,

      I’d be also interested in all answers that state something ‘other’ than the question presented;
      A couple o examples;
      fenn was asked about the sealing of the jar in the chest. In part, he said; Although i’m ready to say the chest is not in water, he didn’t want moisture to get into the jar.
      Well, didn’t he say the chest is not in water, only he wasn’t ready to directly comment its not? Only to later make a comment; “the chest is not under water.”
      Another Q&A fenn was asked; who else knows? [ where the chest is ] In part , fenn stated, an 80 yr old is not going down and up and down a canyon.

      Attempting to make a list of non-answered questions alone, would leave out many pieces of information from answered questions.
      If you don’t know of this; JCM “no paddle up your creek” – listed at the bottom of this page… has compiled just about every interview, audio, video, Q&A etc since the start of the chase… in documents you can buy [ with up dates ]. Including some second hand information from other searchers in talks with fenn [information, that has not always made its way through normal media avenues].
      You may want to check it out.

  44. LOL – and a lifetime to do it. To me the question isn’t whether the stories are true or not, but WHY he told them. If it doesn’t fact check is it a clue? Or is it a clue if it does fact check? Man, I love this game of wits! Also gotta wonder what the chase has cost America in lost workplace productivity!!?? Back to work for me now. LOL

  45. “I once knew that a man who read “Surfer” magazine. He even wrote letters to the editor about surfing, and talked about surfing all the time. But he had never really been surfing at all. He knew all about surfing. He could tell you what board to use, and even how to wax the board. But he had never once been to the beach. That nitwit Sparrow reminds me of him. He can tell you all about the Chase but he’s never put boots on the ground. You’re a complete nitwit Sparrow” —Billy Barty

    Thank you for your words of encouragement Billy. You’re a true friend.

    • Lisa

      Thanks for the reminder.
      I loved the last one they did and have been lookin forward to this one. 4 nights is simply not enough, they should do a weekly show throughout the year.
      Also, Yellowstone with Kevin Costner is starting back up on June 19th on Paramount.

      • Pauley T – I am wearing my ball cap with the Big Yellow Y on it, in anticipation of Season 2 of “Yellowstone”. And I am schmoozing their awesome photographer on the set, to see if I can be there when they are filming next season.

        • Lisa

          I think you still have time to get on this season, it’s a week away, look what’s been accomplished in a week throughout history, if you start schmoozing now you should be good!

  46. So here is the thought i had today. Forrest Fenn said that you can find that dam box ,if you follow the poem. What if every hint outside of the poem only miss directs you, if you take it at face value. The only way to make 9*1 = anything but 9 is to add some equations. One half of the poem is disregarded.

    • King,
      Clarify something for me… are you discarding half of the poem the while deciphering clues, or while on site following the clues?

  47. Without BOTG so to speak the little girl from India can’t get past the first two clues. Neither can anyone else. IMO of course.

    It’s like my friends used to say … “you had to be there”. That’s where the riddle starts. A riddle that takes about two years to solve. And there are no short cuts to … “confidence”. 🙂

  48. Search this “Exploring the TRAILs less travelled” it will show you that human trails may not be what your first thought it was

  49. Happy Father’s Day to Mr Forrest Fenn and to all the Fathers out there and to those who fill the role of Father to the fatherless.

  50. Look at the big picture – My thought about the big picture is a map, the largest map that is known is GM/GE, which truly are photographs of the earth’s surface. I’m sure we all use those pictures in our searches at one time or another or most always used.

    The only time that I have used a topography map is to merely check that I am above or below the elevation limits set by Forrest. Without GM/GE the searches would become somewhat expensive over the long run and one couldn’t see up close how the area may be at a glance, one can’t do that on a paper map.

    Marry the poem to a place on a map, which I feel is the big picture, without a doubt. I’m writing a new idea about just using the poem and a good map to marry the two. The starting place is done through research and learning to nail down wwwh, in order to find the right map. It will be out in about two weeks in an effort to make sure that all portrays clearly my efforts without using any part of TTOTC, except for using the poem, merely to see if it can be done.

    Just Say’n

    • Nice challenge for yourself CharlieM. It will be hard to rid your mind of things learned while reading TTOTC or other ATF info, and use JUST the poem and a map (GM/GE). Not sure I could do it. Too much confirmation bias from my search area would enter the picture. Good luck with it though – JDA

    • Loved the PIC of Cynthia and Molly. I wish that my puppies took as much interest in the search as Molly does – I might be farther along in my solve 🙂 Loved the article. Let’s all hope for a successful AND SAFE search season – JDA

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *