River Bathing is Best Solve, Clue 1-5

June 2019

By Jake Faulker

 

The Thrill of the Chase has hints and subtle hints that will help you get the general area down and I think these are places considering we have to marry the clues in the poem to places on a map and the poem also has directions, places and things at places.

In Love With Yellowstone
West Yellowstone
Looking For Lewis And Clark
The Madison’s
The Gallatin’s
Yellowstone National Park
Flywater
Geography
Google Maps and/or a good map
The Poem
The Memoirs
Imagination

1 – Begin it where warm waters halt 
After reading his books and poem multiple times, I have come to the conclusion that chapter 5 “too far to walk” River Bathing Is Best, is where to begin. He tells a story of his bathing spot near Ojo Caliente spring on the Firehole River in Yellowstone National Park. Note: He never mentions Ojo Caliente, but we now know that was his bathing spot in the Firehole near Ojo.

This spot should not be in a canyon and isn’t seeing we need to take it (The quest) in the canyon down next.

“when I decided it was time to leave I’d back a couple of feet downstream where the water was cold. That gave me instant incentive to climb out and sun dry…”

*Omega shape on this part of the Firehole River

*5th line in the poem and the 5th chapter in – too far to walk

*He went alone in there

**My secret bathing spot

**Always worth the effort

**https://www.oldsantafetradingco.com/blog/river-bathing-is-best

firehole swim

ojo

2 – And take it in the canyon down, 

The only canyon down (In elevation) is the Firehole Canyon.

Maybe this explains why many have figured the 1st 2 clues correctly and fizzled out.

firehole canyon

canyon down

Not far, but too far to walk.

Not a clue here, just letting you know what you shouldn’t do and maybe just drive.

3 – Put in below the home of Brown. 

In the preface of his book “too far too walk”, he states “put a small rubber dingy in the Madison River a few miles from West Yellowstone and fished downstream to Baker’s Hole. The river distance was about 10 miles”

“The river experience cemented my connection to that special country and I promised myself that someday I would make the trip again. THAT DAY NEVER CAME FOR ME,…. For me now, it’s just too far to walk.”

Some have decided to figure out what the home of Brown is instead of knowing where it is before trying to figure out where warm waters halt. Big mistake!

I think Forrest is the only one who knows WHAT the home of Brown is and you will only find out after you find the treasure. I do not think this place is labeled on any map, new or old.

One way to figure out where this clue is, is to skip it and figure out the next few clues if you can do this. I was able to do this and the next few clues seem to work with what the poem says.

What’s more important? The “put in” spot? or where you are going to draw, take or get out of the waterway. Try that out on a river or lake and you will see what I mean. It’s more important where you get out.

put in

put in madison

4 – From there it’s no place for the meek, 

From there? The place you put in, then let the river flow take you down stream passing through Fenn’s favorite, special fishing spots to the border of Yellowstone National Park.

Joseph Meek was a trapper, trader & hunter back in the 1800’s when there was no park label and designation back then.

There is no hunting or trapping allowed in Yellowstone National Park now and the park is no place for him.

If you don’t like Joe Meek in the mix, then you could say it’s no place for Fenn now. Seeing that day never came for him, I would have to say he is meek in the park now with all the crowds and fisherman all over his special fishing spots.

This clue brings you just outside the park at the border in West Yellowstone.

meek place

5 – The end is ever drawing nigh; 

You’re at the border of the park and there’s a bridge close by.

You have to draw out of the Madison River there and head North on Gallatin Road.

NIGH = North Intrastate Gallatin Highway, is Intrastate Highway (191). It is also known as the “Gallatin Gateway” and reminds me of “The word that is key”. Gallatin County appears to be in the shape of a key.

You will need a key to unlock the “Gateway”.

The end is ever drawing North Intrastate Gallatin Highway;

Hop on the bridge and head north to your creek.

Gallatin County below.

gallatin county

There are over 30 creeks up the Gallatin Gateway and it’s been tough to pick out a few that fit the poem. All the areas in this solve are places that Fenn loved which makes sense to me where he hid the treasure.

gallatin nigh

The Gallatin River where you can paddle.

ode joe

Ode to Joe fishing spot from too far to walk on the Gallatin.

I think this is a basic simple straightforward solve by my design and guidance from Fenn’s comments.

All these clues do not have to be physically traveled. Just use your imagination to get from one place to another and don’t overcook or over think what is right in front of you.

Good luck to all of you and please simplify if you can.

-Jake

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

237 thoughts on “River Bathing is Best Solve, Clue 1-5

  1. Nice write-up Jake. I have a bit of a problem with your lack of an hoB, and your “Meek Place” being YNP, but who knows – You just might be right on both counts.

    I wish you luck. You have been at it for a bit now, and with the exception of one jaunt to the Cody area, have stuck to your guns in this area. Lots in the books that point to the areas you search. As I said, I wish you luck – JDA

      • Jake – In the preface of TFTW, Forrest put in wearing waders, with the Dinghy attached to his belt. No floating down the Madison River allowed in YNP. When you get past the Park Boundary at Baker’S Hole, you can fish with the “Gulpers” from a boat or float tube all the way down to the Madison Arm to enter Hebgen Lake. Which Forrest may just have done with that little blue boat and oar from that Scrapbook pic.

        Hope that doesn’t mess up the “float” part of your solve. Forrest “walked” those ten river miles.

          • Jake – Not true. That first paragraph is about fishing on Yellowstone Lake. The last sentence says you can fish ONLY in the channel between Lewis and Shoshone Lakes with a hand-propelled craft. With a boat permit for your float tube.

            I know the Madison River, specifically, is “right out” for being inside a float tube or a dinghy inside YNP. We had a Hebgen Lake District Ranger watching my friend like a hawk, as she dragged one on a leash on her first crossing. It flipped and filled a top flap with water, which made it super heavy. But she made it anyway. Her plan was to drag the bronze chest on top of it, on the way back. She could do that inside the park. If she wasn’t on top fishing. Like Forrest did with his camping gear on top of his dingy, which was attached to his belt.

          • So,
            The rules I posted from the Yellowstone National Park website are not true?
            I think you need to read it again as I did.

          • Jake – If I owned a company, called, “Montana Angler”, I would want the rules I post in my link about float tube fishing on the Madison River in YNP to be clearly stated and correct (link below in my reply to DeCall about Brown Trout):

            “The Yellowstone Park section of the Madison is the most popular area for fishing the fall run because it gets the highest number of fish that move into the river. Both Browns and Rainbows begin to push out of Hebgen Lake in late September and will be in the river until the YNP season closes on the first Sunday in November. Yellowstone Park does not allow float fishing, so this is strictly a wade fishery.”

            Kelly Galloup of the Slide Inn said so, also. And so did Jim Slattery, the owner of Campfire Lodge and the fly shop there. The nice guy with the canoe I am going to borrow.

            Really, Jake. You misperceived that paragraph.

    • I think we will never know exactly where or what HOB is and I’m not sure it matters anyway as long as you “put in” between the canyon down and the border of the meek place IMS.

  2. If NIGH means North Interstate Gallatin Highway then you got me.
    For a while I did my arm chair searches looking at Duck Creek, Greyling Creek, and parts nearby. Partly because I had once worked at the Parade Rest resort near there. But also because when f showed a picture of his back yard sitting are there were ducks in a creek. I took that as a possible hint. When Dal and Cynthia did a search of that area f took an interest.
    I like your reasoning in figuring out this solution. I hope that you get to devote more time to a boots on the ground search of that area.

    • Now that you got me looking at the creeks down the north interstate Gallatin Highway, there is one more. F once wrote a story about fishing with his niece. Now I am looking at Gneiss Creek. Was the story a hint?
      Probably a stretch, like thinking Ducks in a creek was a hint.
      IMO

      • Everything could be a hint, if stretched far enough. While on a
        search trip, I saw a wolf or coyote. Wile E. Coyote reminds me
        of the Road Runner, who zoomed along a road, raising a cloud of dust. I’d say “voila”, but try not to over-use words starting with v.
        This entire message is part of my opinion. Your mileage may differ. I said “differ”.

      • One idea: As a 13 year old boy, when do you get a paddling? When you aren’t nice. When is there no paddling? When you *are* nice. Gniess Creek makes sense to me in this solve. You might say it makes me smile.

        As for ducks, The Denver Museum of Nature and Science is in City Park, close to Duck Lake.

        • Ray Henry – Isn’t Parade Rest Ranch at that trailhead? And doesn’t that mean ‘At Ease’ as a military command? Isn’t that kind of a “go in peace” clue riddle solution?

          Thanks, F.D.!

    • Yup, you got Duck Creek right there and still considering but, just like Gneiss, goes back in the park.
      The word “ever” tells me to go a far distance up NIGH.

  3. Jake,
    Nice solve. Can’t disagree with it. Until the TC is found, any solve is as good as the next one.
    Good luck and stay safe.

  4. Jake, very nice write up; all excellent points with your imagination in good form. Definitely liked your key shaped Gallatin County. Thanks for sharing your efforts here. Carry on sir.

    • Hank – I loved the Gallatin County Key, also. Do you think the, “word that is key”, is Gallatin?:

      Albert Gallatin was appointed Secretary of the Treasury by President Thomas Jefferson in 1801; reappointed by President James Madison, and served from 1801 to 1814. Wasn’t Forrest, “Looking for Lewis and Clark”?

      And that Gallatin County Key is in the Treasure State of Montana. And Fred M. Brown was the Surveyor of Gallatin County, building roads in YNP with his Surveyor father. Loved that 1912 map of Brown’s Camp Fred drew, at what is now Baker’S Hole Campground.

      Awesome, Jake. I like your hat. Please don’t eat it.

      Love, Lisa

      • Lisa, I don’t know what the key word is; but I was impressed with this solve. My thoughts are more with what Jake doesn’t say, but that’s to be expected here. Nonetheless,he put a good meal on the table for all.

        • Hank – I agree. Thanks again, Jake.

          Forrest has said his “key word” is “contentment”. Could that be?:

          con•tent•ment > con•tent•meant > with•tent•meant

          Spanish ‘Miss Ford’ translation for ‘con’ is ‘with’.

          “A family that is joined together and gone out lookin’ for the treasure four or five or ten or 50 times. Take a tent and sleeping bags and fishing pole and go out looking. That was my primary motive.”

          A really cute family of four, with two little kids, camped next to us in site #59 at Baker’S Hole. That Sunday morning, before we did our ‘Miss Ford’ thing, across the Madison River, the kids were walking around with their fishing poles at 7:00am. The family ended up fishing right where we did our ‘put-in’, downstream from that suspicious Interpretive sign with the the two life-sized ‘cast’ Brown trout on “IT”.
          They are in that first pic in that series I posted, with my fly fishing librarian friend in the river just downstream from them. Such a lovely and precious early afternoon scene. They were in a small trailer, not a tent, though, Forrest. A Black bear had been causing trouble in site #13, just a few nights before.

        • I didn’t get into too much detail about my partial solve by design.
          It’s good to leave out most of the other “Coincidences”.

  5. @Jake
    nice job
    what’s wrong with Hebgen Lake for hoB??
    If you are following the Madison down 10 or more miles, the next logical place is Hebgen, especially since the Brown Trout live there in winter… Seannm has made a good argument against brown trout (not grammatically correct). Toby Younis has countered the argument with the use of Brown Trout in technical literature. I have never cared about the rules of grammar, since ff makes his own rules. So capital B Brown Trout is just fine with me… and the moment you drive below Hebgen Dam, you feel the Forrest Fenn vibe for sure.

    • DeCall-
      Not trying to hedge in on your question for Jake…but maybe my rationale for not going below the lake is the same as Jakes…

      Jakes solution and mine are very similar. My HOB is also above the lake simply because there are at least three potential HOBs in that area and it takes time to explore each one. Additionally, the area between the dam and the 87 bridge has been staked out by Diggin Gypsy, She carries a pump action shotgun loaded with bird shot and she can out run me. 🙂

      One final alibi that I use to stay above the lake is bike riding distance from the FennHaven Cabins. It’s a reasonably easy hike or bike ride to the 191 bridge for all kinds of things a bunch of kids might do in and around that part of the Madison in summer. It’s a lovely place and handy to get to from town…

    • DeCall – If I had a company called, “Montana Angler”, I would call them Browns or Big Brown or Brown Trout, also:

      https://www.montanaangler.com/montana-fly-fishing-blog/201610/fall-run-browns-madison-river

      Almost the same pic (below the Hebgen Dam, and next to the Day Use Area), that I made for Forrest for his birthday on August 22, 2013, is included in that link. I could imagine him fly fishing there. Had to go get a burger at the Grizzly Bar & Grill in Cameron, to use the cell tower that evening to send the pic. Home of the Brown Bear; at Grizzly Gravel Bar, just below, on the Madison River.

      Fitting, right?

    • If you are taking your quest in the Firehole Canyon down from his bathing spot then there should be a HOB either in the Firehole Canyon or somewhere near where it ends.
      If the poem said: And take it in the canyonS down then I would have to consider the Madison Canyon and would be in the mix.
      I have considered Hebgen as HOB but couldn’t get other clues to work with it.

      • Jake,
        This is a stupid question, but have you ever considered a structure to be the home of brown. The reason I ask this is, if you were driving along in your truck and said, “hey kids, keep your eyes open for a home of brown!” If you are driving down the Firehole canyon, I think a lot of kids would point at the Madison Information Station. It looks like a brown house or cabin. It will be maintained, and kept brown for a long time to come. So I definitely see the potential. I probably have 4 WWWHs. And similar canyons down and HOBs. And the Madison Info Station has been one of my HOBs in the past. And I have not ruled it out. Maybe people go or walk right by it because it is so in your face. Just a thought.

        • I have considered the Madison Information Station which I visited and done some research. It was a museum back in the day and thought there was a connection to Tyler Grafton Brown paintings being there or him staying there. It also could be HOB. The amphitheater is cool.

          • I had a solve that I really liked that took me to the large island at the confluence. I had some things that I thought fit perfectly, and I let confirmation bias catch up with me. I had a great blaze, everything. I made a BOTG specifically for one solve because it was just so perfect. I will never do that again, unless something REALLY clicks. Otherwise it will be for fun, and/or I will have backup solves and not hinge an entire trip on one. This was my BLAZE: 44°38’30.8″N 110°51’54.2″W. I have been BOTG there twice in 2 different seasons. Once the blaze was obvious and very visible, once it was overgrown and hard to distinguish. I thought it looked too “constructed” to be a coincidence. But when I got there, i realized. Yes, it is an island (like Gardiner’s Island); yes, no one would accidentally wander out there and trip over it; yes, i could see this view/area being special to FF; but no, i couldn’t see it being a final resting spot. He would be found within likely 8-10 hours max. And that Island is only about 2 to 2.5 feet above river level. It is highly visible.

          • Funny, I thought about that little island at the bottom of the Firehole Canyon and Google searched it many times.
            I definitely think the treasure could be on an island for the reasons you and Fenn state but one of my first solves took me back up the canyon back to his bathing spot and another to Old Faithful.

            I have never been a big fan of being able to see the blaze on GE or any map. I don’t see the logic of it seeing Fenn wants people to get outside in the woods.

          • I tend to agree with the google earth comment. But I was looking and that “arrowhead” just stuck in my head. I have had starts that point me to starting near Old Faithful, but never any solve that ended in that area. I have had some just killer solves (IMO) but never have I had 100% confidence, such that I could just walk right to it. Heck I have 4 or 5 great WWWHs. And I don’t have 100% confidence which, if any, is the correct one.

          • The logic would be that hardly anyone will figure out that it is the blaze even though it’s visible on GE.

          • Yellowdog,
            I would throw the “confidence” quote by Fenn out the window. I have seen many here that were 100% sure and….

            Nada!

            Some never even come back here after they knew they were wrong and my most confident trip was my first and learned alot from that. Don’t boast before you toast. Or you are toast?

      • Jake – Have you considered the Brown Drake?:

        https://www.instagram.com/p/BykpGumAM5M/?igshid=1whdyx6czlirj

        Heading to Silver Creek, about 45 minues South, tomorrow evening for the epic hatch. Jack Hemingway used to fish the creek all the time, and he also used to love to fish the Firehole. Like Forrest did.

        My fly fishing librarian friend got her fly caught in a pine tree on Firehole Canyon Drive, when we were in YNP that first Saturday. I retrieved a Baetis, but it wasn’t hers. It looked pretty faded and ancient. Maybe it was Forrest’s?

    • Decalll, I’m with you on this. HOB is Hebgen Lake. Mr Fenn said keep it simple and you pointed out the most simply fact.

      Nice write up Jake. There’s good reasoning there. Please stay north of the lake though. Haha

  6. Holy cow Jake-
    It must have been a chilly fall day when you snapped that shot of Ojo Caliente. I’ve never seen that much steam rising out of that place.

    • Yes it was. Oct 2015,
      High 20’s and low 30’s in the morning but it it did eventually warm up into the 60’s and 70’s in the afternoon as the week went on and no snow on the mountain tops either.

  7. Jake, I agree with you on a lot of it, but I don’t agree with the meek being about Joe Meek. Liked your nigh, but not certain it would be that. But then again, I don’t have the chest. Best of luck

    • I cringe a bit to think Fenn had someone in his poem be more important than Fenn himself. But there are other options and I think Fenn used multiple meanings for some of the clues.

  8. Nice write-up Jake.

    It’s neat to see a solve take form. I like your key to county connection. That’s cool.

    Good luck on 6 thru 9.

    SRW

    • SWR,

      I wasn’t intending to comment about the theory behind the attempt in this post… lol… only this one kills me.

      1st, if the word “key” was never mentioned [after the fact], would we even look for this type of design?
      2nd, keys designs have changed over a short time period. Some today, are remote gadgets, voiced operated, that look nothing like earlier keys. Would anyone in a hundred years, 500 years even know or remember what a key looked like … for it to be such a ‘key’ -piece of information- in solving the challenge?

      In part; the ATF was; a few are in tight focus of a ‘word’ that is key.
      For example, and relating to the idea of the location. “MAP” kinda springs to mind, at a reader of the book and poem. A map of the Gallatin NF.
      That map [ of the National Forest ] looks nothing like a shape of any style key. While I like the potential of the area…overall… could the idea be more about the ATFs ” ~looking at maps, GE, if you have the right map, a good map~ etc., and not so much the simplistic notion of a shape that could look like different things to many people.
      And possibly eliminate an area that is not within, yet near, this shape, ‘just’ because of its shape?
      LOL it’s like looking for Omegas designs all over the RM’s… How many of those U shape designs can be found on the rivers mentioned in this post, alone?

      But… Don’tcha love the location, just for the place its self.

      • IMO the word that is key, is a word that is used through several chapters that help you realize the proper WWWH, and in those chapters also help you understand the clues.

      • Hey Seeker,

        Interesting that you bring up the “….. in tight focus with a word that is key” comment. I was just re-reviewing that one for my own selfish gain (LOL).

        For some reason, that comment always seems to take me in a slightly different direction. It is difficult for me to correlate shapes in the landscape from the words in the poem, based on that quote. I’m not even sure that the special “word” is even needed to solve the poem. But I remain open to the possibility that it may exist. If there is “a word that is key”, I continue to look to the poem for that.

        One other thought. I always try to remember this one comment from Forrest: “all of the information you need to find the treasure chest is in the poem.” I’m pretty much a firm believer in that.

        And since this is Jake’s posting, I’ll add that I do applaud all of those who are able to see things in a different light. Maybe this is the imagination portion of the solve?

        Seeker, I do agree with your assessment. The location does look special. I’m sure it’s a nice place to visit for sure. I’m still looking for the treasure chest too. It’s back to the poem for me.

        All IMO.

        SRW

    • I’m not sure who posted the key to county shape connection but I know Zap was upset about it. It’s just another coincidence on top of others.

  9. thanks for sharing your well thought out and put in place. Jake, its good to see everyone’s waiting for the crazy snow melt and wild weather we have been experiencing we had ping pong hail today in Colorado be safe out there if it looks dangerous wait a week or two. I’m waiting until the Lilly’s are growing above me or something like that maybe a special creek some where. i think that’s what I should put in to until then good day to all Titan can’t wait.

    • Hope you are doing better Jeff. I don’t think the snow will completely melt this year. Get Titan to sniff out Bronze.

  10. Jake…thanks for showing us the “Ode to Joe” fishing spot. And, I think you are “spot on” in your presentation. Have you looked at Gneiss Creek? Beautiful setting amongst the firs. I wouldn’t mind being buried in that cemetery.

  11. Jake:
    Thank you for sharing. Good luck with your solve. My path does not converge. Keep your hat handy.
    Finder

    • I’m afraid I had to dump the hat and need a new one.
      My sweat just rotted it away.
      So, no one will be eating it. 🙁

  12. Yes Dal,
    That bridge area by hwy 191 is interesting. Lots of swimming. Near there the Smoke Jumpers have their office, at the airport. Smoke Jumpers too, look for blazes.

  13. Jake, good luck and thanks for sharing a great story. I think hob is too important to skip. To me HOB is the Nez Pearce creek where brown trout were first introduced in about 1890. There is a parking lot near where it joins the Firehole, not far from FF’s bathing spot. A good put in point in my opinion.
    Another note of the area near the ode to joe fishing spot is the Taylor fork creek that enters the Gallation just to the south of that spot. This is one of the creeks talked bout in Journal of a Trapper.
    Gallation county being a “KEY” is an interesting aspect that is new to me.

    • I thought about Nez Perce and went up that creek a couple of times where the pullover and sign is and the other pullover across the road where the trail is.
      You could definitely use this as no place for the meek and HOB for the original home of brown trout. I eventually decided to go further down the Firehole Canyon for my HOB.

  14. Hey Jake

    Nice summation, but way too complicated.
    I believe it’s a lot more simpler than that.
    Just my opinion.
    Be safe searching.

  15. Thanks Dal for posting this solve from Jake. Makes way more sense than my attempts.
    As a disabled Army Veteran; there’ll be no boots on the ground for me . I’ll send my daughter & boyfriend when the pinpoint is targeted.
    Thanks again!

  16. Well, Jake,

    I won’t go into the aspects of the theory you propose… only to say, who wouldn’t fall in love with this location.

    • The sole purpose I sent this to dal was for people to interact and share their thoughts. Poking holes in it is easy just like all the others.

      Yes, but it’s easy to fall in love with almost any part of the Rockies.

      • Well, Jake…
        Poking holes as you put it, is talking about thoughts.

        However, it’s not easy, when we have many things we need to consider and think about. Book, Maps, Possibly Other Books, All the ATF’s.
        etc. etc.
        Some don’t like the idea of utilizing ATF’s in this conversation of thoughts in a post like this [ mainly because they may think of it as ‘poking holes’ as criticizing ] But, are you not using a ATF to conclude what your hopeful WWsH might be-?- as the goose who lays golden eggs.

        IF this was part of a ‘deciphering’ of the ‘critical’ first clue [ as we’ve been told to have or not even bother to go searching ] When fenn’s repeated comments; such as; the TTOTC book is excellent reference tool… only he never has said the same about any other book, when directly asked about those books.
        In all fairness he as stated, for example, there are a couple of clues/hints in the tftw book… one being… omits Canada as not where the chest is [ in that section of the RM’s ] But that’s not the same as telling us what a ‘clue’ might refer to. It’s is just another elimination of a “spot” the chest is not at.
        The question is; is this idea of eliminations of the location of a 10″ spot a clue? a hint?

        Only fenn as been adamant he’s not going to give anything “useful”… hence the useless clues debate / fiasco of yesteryears [following all those supposed “clues” from the Today Show].
        I would think telling all that ‘river bathing’ is important ~AFT.. well.. that really sucks for all those tens of thousands who were told; everyone as the same information to work with, at the start of all this.

        IMO… That would make fenn’s webpage a ‘very’ important factor we would need. I’m just not buying into that. It would make the idea of buying the book and presenting the poem within… as a whole unit… basically worthless, and more about guessing, than the idea of helping with the clues for that confidence level.
        With one exception that we know of; the safety first post.
        Which doesn’t talk about any clues, but again, eliminates a spot / place[s] the chest is not… because of some folks lack of common sense when searching.

        ~ [in part] “…I am determined to stay aloof of
        providing any additional clues that are useful. Everyone has the same information to work with.”

        So, if and/or when I disagree with your ideas [ or anyone’s], I do attempt to explain why I came to the discussion to talk about them. I attempt to understand all that has been relayed [All the After the Facts information] and not hang my hat on one thing, as if it was a golden inlay.

        LOL but then again, and don’t get me wrong. There are ATF’s that seem to help more than others… the comments *not ready to say the chest is not in water*
        *And I can tell you an 80-year-old man is not going to make a trip into a canyon, then come up and go down again.* [ and others ] may seem like very helpful information, but not directly indicating a reference to what a clue could or could not be. They simply seem to imply another elimination factor[s].

        End of commentary… for thoughts

        • His website is very important. It has the poem, extra clues, stories etc…

          Everyone does have the same information to work with from the very beginning. Just because this story was on his website before tftw and isn’t in TTotC doesn’t mean it’s irrelevant and it’s only available to a few special souls that have internet access seeing it’s easier to pull it up on the internet for free than buy his books.

          Now, if my WWWH was in some remote place with no visitors then I could see it wouldn’t fit the ATF’s and would be a guess.

          You say: “basically worthless, and more about guessing”.
          Not sure how you get to that thought LOL.
          Redundancy can be a good thing where you have other options if you cannot afford the book(s) but do have the internet.

          There is no guessing at my WWWH LOL. It practically hits you right over the head. Even when someone points out a obvious piece of info that leads them to a clue, you say they are guessing.

          • In regards to your thoguths on my comment…You [Seeker] say: “basically worthless, and more about guessing”.
            Not sure how you get to that thought LOL.

            I’m referring to the TOTC book. because;
            You make it sound like the web page and later published work was fenn’s possible ‘plan’ all along, to add ‘in your face’ information [ as you implied ] because folks might not be able to pay the 80 plus price of the book.. I’ll add a possibility ..or even know of a single mom n’ pop book store that only had permission to sell the book. { that is a good sale tool to get the word out… the webpage }

            Regardless of what you hope might be the case, we do have fenn comments; It’s out of his hands, he’s a bystander, and not going to give useful clues etc. after the publishing of TTOTC.

            You can say; ‘There is no guessing at my WWWH LOL. It practically hits you right over the head. Even when someone points out a obvious piece of info that leads them to a clue, you say they are guessing.’

            Yep … guessing 101.
            Fenn said we need to learn WWsH.

            Handing us that; hit in the head, idea, is nothing more than guessing. There’s not learning about the clue, little or no effort, no imagination….

            ***Especially*** when we are told of the importance of deciphering the first clues or we have nothing.
            I mean, what was the point of; 2 decades worth of revising the poem, collecting precious items for the chest, buying a 20,000 $ chest, the cost of publication of the book [ how many thousands of copies?] Planning all of this… if all he needed to do was open a webpage for the World to see instantly?

          • Guess definition:
            1 – to form an opinion of from little or no evidence.
            2 – believe or suppose.
            3 – to arrive at a correct conclusion about by conjecture, chance, or intuition.

            We have more than a little evidence and I’m not supposing and this isn’t intuition, chance or conjecture there is solid evidence.

            When I preached over and over that “Begin it where warm waters halt” was the 1st clue you dismissed it as a guess even though the poem says “Begin it where…”. That’s pretty strong evidence seeing it’s in the poem. Bam! bounced off thick heads. Thanks Loco!

            I’ve said that the blaze is one of the clues only to see searchers ignoring what Femn said. I do believe the blaze is the last clue and I hope will be proven.

            When you go to Burger King, do you ask for a popsicle because you don’t believe what the sign says?
            Do you go to an Ice Cream parlor and ask if they have shoe laces?

            There is lots of solid evidence for his bathing spot being the place where to begin but I’m not going to list them here because you are getting ready to go into the bathroom to cook dinner and it doesn’t matter what I list to get you off that.

            A good investigator uses evidence and doesn’t ignore it or call it a guess.

          • Jake,

            I never said WWsH as not the first clue… I preach it was never stated by fenn with any confirmation [audio / video], until Loco found on from another country… from 2013 he posted much later.
            This is why many read stanza one as possibly hold a clue, or the idea of 9 sentences equals 9 clues…

            But if ya want to play I told ya so… how’s the watery solutions coming along? Even after fenn stated not under water, you still wanted to argue “under” didn’t mean “in”

            All that BS aside. In your explanation you learned nothing about WWsH. Nothing in your explanation say how you manage to nail it down…. you simple hope fenn only handed it to you, and others.

            I still don’t know how you can explain fenn **finally** stating he followed the clues “when he hid the chest” and made two trips.
            Even though he say we have to “go to” the first clue. In your theory, there’s really no reason to start at WWsH, if you can located a later clue closer to the chest.
            That doesn’t leave any stretch of the imagination “his” route is the same as ours as the poem plays out.
            In that case, how did fenn take the same route back out in your theory?

          • Seeker: “I never said WWsH as not the first clue”.

            That’s my point and you never mention what or where your WWWH is, or your canyon down or your HOB or whatever you think the clues in the poem are.

            I’m not going to shadow box people who have all the choices but none themselves.

            I think some of you people are here only to criticize others ideas and don’t offer your own because you folks are too afraid of criticism. A one way street again. LOL

            I get a kick out of you knowing what you think I have learned and what I have learned is that folks like you need to have your own ideas about the clues in the poem and your ideas where these places are.

            I got my ideas and you got your ideas but it seems your ideas are always about others ideas and not your own.
            I call that a parasite LOL.

          • Jake ~ ‘That’s my point and you never mention what or where your WWWH is, or your canyon down or your HOB or whatever you think the clues in the poem are.’

            I don’t know if you’re playing ignorant, are ignorant, or just have a short memory…
            Ha! I have give example of WWsH from glaciers, to YS lake, earth quake lake, to historical natural events, thought of how color could be involve is what WWsH refers to, to how WW’sH could be about a place where this all can be of an observational solve and on and on…
            I even have a couple of post on this site, just like this one, [ and other sites ] open for *any* discussion about probabilities, whatIF, and have told folks feel free to pull apart my posting using what we have as information to date…

            You post this type of post for feed back, supposedly {a thread just for the discussion of what *you present* to all on an open forum}, but when that feed back isn’t, patting you on the back, or saying what a great mind ya have…
            …call me a parasite… {a childish response}
            just because I can raise a good debate about what you present.

            You’re just like others who have come and gone over the years… you don’t want to actually discuss what we have to work… you pick and choose what you only information that makes your theory work, only if you skip other pieces of information, and say how easy it is in your mind… ignoring / or start name calling… what others have to say as a possible conflict in your theory.

            What do they say about; If you can’t take the heat…? Oh! right… don’t tickle the dragon.

          • I ain’t talking about examples of what any of the clues could be. Anyone could do that all day long as you do.

            I’m talking about what YOU think any of the clues may be in the poem or on a map or real life geography.

            Post a couple of link comments here where you stated what and where you think WWWH is as well as HOB or meek place.

            I know you had a post many years ago but since then you like to put all your coins on every number on the roulette wheel covering every number and never making a real detailed decision what number you think it is.

            You have been sitting on the picket fence too long and should at least give us folks an idea of something other than everything. Anyone could do that.

            I think WWWH is here.
            I think HOB is here.
            I think no place for the meek is here.
            I think WWWH is a clue
            I think WWWH is not a clue.
            HOB is not a clue IMO.

            You have to make a decision sometime or another don’t you? How can you say anything about someone else’s solve if you don’t have one of your own?
            Very hypocritical and parasitic.

            I’m waiting for some links….

  17. “Some have decided to figure out what the home of Brown is instead of knowing where it is before trying to figure out where warm waters halt. Big mistake!
    I think Forrest is the only one who knows WHAT the home of Brown is and you will only find out after you find the treasure. I do not think this place is labeled on any map, new or old.” JF

    Solutions that treat the home of Brown as an impenetrable mystery quickly wind up in Forrest Fenn’s ‘Footnotes that made me Smile.’ What the home of Brown is—and where it is—are the same thing, Jake. Its name and location can’t be separated. And yes, you need to know the Home of Brown before you can correctly identify wwwh.

    The home of Brown is just one of nine locations that Forrest tells us to marry to a map. This particular location is quite visible on thousands of maps, millions of maps. It has a familiar American name and it’s a place where millions of people live and work and read treasure poems. You need to enlarge your search map before you look for canyons.

    ‘Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map. ‘ ff

    • I’m not convinced they are the same thing. You need to put in below HOB.
      There’s got to be a reason why no one has got the 3rd clue. Maybe they can’t by design.

  18. Creative thinking Jake . But are yo-all still trying to solve this thingy by just reading the poem as it is ? Mess with my poem at you own pair LL…. Just B laz E and figure most from your re-C-liner. (History chanel or may-be a movie or two that has hints built in) All in my opinion and just trying to put fresh thinking out there. BTW imo npftm: no place for foul-ers. Aka: sheep just following the sheep in front of them. While not minding the smell of that ‘s kaka berries. Craps I just realized something.

  19. Jake…very nice story with some decent pics of that spectacular area. We are truly very lucky to live in America and be able to roam around freely. Good luck later in the season…

  20. I think you are correct about river bathing but you got the wrong swimming hole, IMO. I don’t think any of the specific locations in the book are the same as any of the nine clue places in the poem.

    Your reasoning seems to be the opposite– that the clues relate to places Forrest has written or talked about.

    • No, I’m thinking about where people still bathe in the Gardner. Pretty near to there other people are angling for trout. Trout like it cold.. biddies like it warm..

        • You have to pay to enter the park.. same as your place. The checkout guy is just a few miles downstream near the town.

          Bathing is allowed there (with a swim suit of course). The warm spot is exactly on the state border.

          • OK fair enough. Both pay.
            Is there any info that you have or public info (not from his friends) that he has been to that area to bath or loved that place? Would he have to bath with strangers there? LOL

          • I think we can agree that the final spot is special to Forrest; but there is no reason to infer the clues leading up to that place need be anything more than quite noticeable.

          • Muset;

            I quite disagree with you – for this reason.

            First line of Stanza #1 reads: “As I have gone alone IN THERE…” To me, this congers up an image of a very small space – Like a crevice between rocks or something like that – A small cave, if you will, even though Forrest has said that it is not in a cave.

            This small space does not sound very inviting to me, On the other hand, all of the other “Points of interest” – WWWsH, Canyon Down, hoB, Meek place, NPUYC, HLnWH, Blaze, TSnMG, etc ALL sound like things that are out in the open, and they (together) paint a picture in my mind of open vistas and panoramic views,

            Forrest said: “*Your destination is small, but its location is huge” (Posted Feb. 19th, 2016) I think that it is the HUGE LOCATION that is important, not the small destination – JMHO – JDA

          • i agree JDA. I may have looked in the small destination and not found anything. But the huge location is awesome. And the views are breathtaking, especially from a couple hundred feet up. The whole place certainly makes one think a larger hand was at work in its creation.

            I definitely believe the whole ‘leave it as you found it’ notion is the correct way. Whether the area is large or small, though, the message is too good to stop.

            J

  21. Seeker,
    I wasn’t looking for the word that is key. I never gave it much thought but I did think it was in the poem.
    I’m not like most that focused on trying to find the key word.

    Before NIGH was Gallatin Road I found myself in Hebgen and was looking for a creek to draw out.
    Cherry, Rumbaugh, Watkins, Trapper, Kirkwood, Red Canyon and even considered, Rock, Beaver and Cabin Creek which I think was Stinking Cabin Creek back in the day. A lot of armchair research and still do like a couple but the poem no longer takes me there.

    I was laying in bed one morning and was thinking about where I was in the poem and my solve. I was at the border of West Yellowstone and the park and it just popped in my head. Nigh could be North Intrastate Gallatin Highway and the poem still flows fine. I didn’t know Gallatin County was the shape of a key until someone posted here about a year ago, way after I had nigh.

    So, No, there was no intent on my behalf to look for it. I really didn’t care for it like most did. But I do think the word that is key is “nigh” after the fact. As far as the “design” of the key and how it may be changing through the years doesn’t affect my word that is key “NIGH”.

    • Fundamental Design – In my solve, the “word that is key”, is, in fact, “IT” as the ‘Madison River’. I believe “IT” is where Forrest was able to expertly “move with confidence”, now and when he was very young. And where Forrest finds his ‘key word’ of contentment.

      “IT’S” the answer to my Poem riddle: IT•S

      • Jake – Or:

        In tight focus with ‘A’…word that is key.

        Forrest forgets to put colons in sometimes. Maybe because they have the archaic meaning of a Circumpunct, the alchemical symbol for GOLD? Should military time be 17:55 or 1755? Is either of these the height of the Washington Monument in feet?

        “If you haven’t nailed down the first clue, you don’t have anything.”

        Is the Answer to the first clue riddle, ‘a’ for alpha, ‘AS’ the Christian fish symbol?

        Without the ‘a’, you don’t have ‘anything’. No ‘fish on’. Get “IT”? Giggles.

        IMO.

        • Jake – Forrest was an aide to a General, also:

          “In 1755, he was serving as an aide to British General Edward Braddock at a fateful battle in Pennsylvania on July 9. That day the British made an attempt to capture Fort Duquesne. George Washington had been sick during most of the month of June but he insisted on joining the battle.”

          Huh. Would that be a ‘general’ or ‘correct’ solve, then, Forrest?

          So many parallels, IMO.

  22. Jake, I’m not getting your rationale of “no place for the Meek” on this one. If you are giving definition of home of Brown a pass for now, then you seem to be putting a lot of weight on this line leading you where you need to go.

    If the idea is that Joe Meek can no longer go trapping/hunting within the boundaries of the park, then couldn’t this just as easily apply to any of the boundaries of the park on any of its borders? Within the boundaries of Yellowstone the idea is that the land is left in a wild state untouched by humans, so couldn’t the opposite be true that by going into the park boundaries be a “no place for the meek”?

    I also don’t like the alternate idea of calling Forrest Fenn meek. I think he’s the exact opposite of meek and needed to be brave and bold in order to find and get to his hidey spot in the first place. Are you thinking along the lines that Forrest is only meek now in his older age since he hid the chest? I guess I could kind of see it that way, but if he wrote the poem before or at the same time that he hid the chest then would he be referring to himself in the future as meek in the poem? That seems a bit odd still if so.

    If the poem is leading you to a creek off of the Madison after it exits the park boundaries, you are limiting yourself to a very small area hemmed in by the developed portions of West Yellowstone and where the river dumps into the Madison Arm of Hebgen Lake. I know that driving that stretch of Gallatin Road north of West Yellowstone looks like a vast forest, but if you look at the satellite image of the area on Google Maps, that’s really just a preserved wall of trees right next to the road with what looks like heavily logged areas immediately behind to the east. Also quite a few 4WD roads running in that area along that whole stretch of river. It just doesn’t look like an area that would even qualify as “somewhere in the Rocky Mountains” or a spot worthy of the man, as you have mentioned before.

    I know that this is only half a solve, but following your path it seems like you are limiting yourself to a pretty small area without a lot of creeks, high waters, or heavy loads that I can see.

    • I’m putting a lot of weight on the next 2 clues after “Put in below the home of Brown”. “From there it’s no place for the meek” and “The end is ever drawing nigh”. Once those 2 clues worked out then I had a pretty good idea where the HOB put in place is.

      When you took a test in school and you got stuck at a question, what would you do? I look at the poem as a nine question test where each Q or clue leads to the next and are connected. If I got stuck I would skip it and go back to it later if there was time.

      Meek could be Joe Meek, Meek reels, or Fenn being meek in that area because of all the fisherman and tourists in that section of the park and the Madison River was loaded with them when I went a few times. I don’t think he would feel comfortable there with all those people fishing in his spots. It may also have something to do with the Bison on the side of the river even though it didn’t bother him in that story but would freak most out.

      “The fur trade is dead in the Rocky Mountains, and it is no place for us now, if ever it was.”
      https://user.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/html/jmeek/chap21.html

      The poem does not lead me to a creek off the Madison if you read and understood what I posted. My 5th clue leads me up Gallatin Road which is not a small area and goes to Four Corners. It’s a vast area where there are over 30 creeks.

      Fenn could have used double meanings for clues to cover his butt.

      • Jake, skipping ahead to the next question in a test is one thing, but skipping ahead to a later step in a series of sequential instructions could shoot you off trail mighty quickly. Unless you are working a solve where all of the clues intersect at one spot and their order doesn’t matter, which is another fair solving method to follow.

        I agree that following the Gallatin Road northwards instead of following the Madison River takes you into more interesting territory with more intriguing options.

        • Yes it could lead you way off trail or path. But I’m a risk taker and like to take it to the ground. I know, it’s risky to discount anything in the poem but knowing Fenn was a risk taker tells me you need to take one.

          What better place to take a risk where the cap B is in Brown. We know the most important clues are the blaze and WWWH.
          I believe as long as you have the first clue, you should follow the rest to your best ability and don’t be afraid to take one chance along the way in between.

          There has to be a bump in the road somewhere and I think it’s at the 3rd clue seeing no one has got that. How could all those searchers miss it unless it’s hidden in his mind?

          • Jake “Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?” It sounds to me like you are substituting one of those ingredients in the cake with your hat lol, I am just messing with you but when I thought that it made me laugh and I had to post it. But seriously thanks for posting your thoughts…

          • Ahhh, but you can add that 3rd missing ingredient if you get the 2 ingredients after it. I’m not leaving out a few, that would be disastrous.

            Some ingredients don’t have to be “put in” together but some do. I’m not making Brownies, I’m working on a blaze cake.

  23. Good to see some theories posted! Everybody tightened up after the gut feeling comment last year. One question though; how does your home of brown take you to the chest? Whsts connection?

    • Put in below HOB doesn’t take you to the chest. It’s one of the clues of 9 and have a long way to go. It’s clue #3 in my book, then you got another 6 and I think it’s ridiculous if you think the treasure chest is where PIBTHOB place.
      Ya, sure, he can go right to it LOL.

  24. Jake, great job on creative thinking and imagination, your method proves to me that many in this search are all looking for a clue called “put in below the home of Brown.” Thought commentary:

    My question is, “In the book, do you also, in a more subtle way, tell which is the correct answer to one or all of the above?” ~BW

    No I don’t madam, sorry. f

    For many of us searches who struggle with the uncertain Home of Brown and its put in, we can assume that since this Brown question has never been hinted at or revealed in the above declaration by ff the Brown Question has a possible esoteric, obscure, arcane, recherché, rarefied, recondite, abstract, difficult, hard, puzzling, perplexing, enigmatic, inscrutable, cryptic, Delphic; definition, if it is not a structure Jake, what is it?

    Many searchers from the 2011, thought Home of Brown to be a fish, AKA a German Brown Trout, but that falls apart when the immense possibilities show how that cannot work for a specific location, besides their home is underwater.

    The other realm of possibility is a place perhaps named after a famous Brown?

    This seems to be the biggest crap shoot of the entire chase, which leads me to think it is a co ordinate term, so bear with me here: the Longitude and Latitude of Too Far too Walk map has 4 boundaries or borders, the big picture, they are on the east, 104.0410 degrees, on the west 116.050 degrees in the south boundary 35.7500 degrees and in the north 49.0000 degrees at the Canada Border.

    It could be possible that below means south of say Browns canyon or Browns Mountain or many other places, but if you co ordinate the proper WWWH latitude which could be an east to west dimension, tangent you get the idea, its hard to see but possible.

    • “In the book, do you also, in a more subtle way, tell which is the correct answer to one or all of the above?” ~BW

      No I don’t madam, sorry. f

      That quote was about TTOTC and not tftw.
      I do not like coordinates in the poem unless it’s the 1st clue and I haven’t found them anywhere in the poem.
      I do not recommend using any labeled “brown” anywhere.

      I’m confident “Brown” is in Fenns mind only.

      • Jake, maybe you just ain’t the marrin kind! Love treasure map humor, now do not knock it till you tried it for a as long as ff has.

        TT

        • I don’t need a piece of paper, binding contract that states we love each other. Marriage seems to be a legal binding contract in my mind going back to the seventies.

      • Jake ~ ‘I’m confident “Brown” is in Fenns mind only.’

        ~ “Who’s Brown”……FF replies, “if I told you that you’d go right to the chest”!

        ~ Is it an advantage to buy *The Thrill of the Chase* and *Too Far to Walk?*
        There are hints in my *TTOTC book* that can help solve the clues in the poem…. Huh?

        • All, HOB is totally solvable. It is particular. It will confirm general location of other clues. I stumbled on it two weeks ago. Cannot say more for now.

    • But, What if you know that it is the correct HoB because you know what “No place for the meek” is. it could be a very generic HoB of NPFTM is specific

  25. Nice post Jake. You really put it out there, which is hard to open up and do.

    But, that said, it feels to me like you are force fitting the clues to a preconceived idea that you want the Gallatin river to be in play. BTW, I have solves up the Gallatin and want it to fit too. After all, they came out that way from Searching for Lewis and Clark if was can believe 50 miles.
    My Issues:
    — NIGH = North Interstate…. is a bit of a stretch – and not a clean clue – not specifically named that on maps — I hope Forrest could do better in 15 years.
    — meek cannot be a historical reference to any Mr Meek of any sort
    — Probably the most damaging is the ATF that people who have solved the first 2 clues have passed right by the treasure (close to it) (this ATF kills many of my attempts)
    — No hoB (which you address, but it’s still an issue)
    — “Not focusing on a work that is key” == Gallitin county is key shaped …. way obtuse!
    — Have you ever seen “Gallitin Gateway” on any map? (ATF regarding local knowledge)

    IMO hoB *has* to appear on some map — what is it? … Who knows? Park Boundary? Joe Brown Put-In or Equivalent? Brown’s Canyon? Indian Reservation (colored Brown on his map), some Pueblo? Forest Service Facility? His recent ATF make it clear you can find hoB on a map.

    While I just Love the Gallitin River Creeks (because of Searching for Lewis and Clark) , none of my force fit solves to get me there are any better (or much worse) than yours. But, I’ll be going there just the same once the snow and grizzly’s subside a bit). (and below hebgen and below earthquake lake).

    As much as I want it to be there, I can’t get a perfect (move in confidence) fit.

    mBG

    • “meek cannot be a historical reference to any Mr Meek of any sort” Fenn has never said any such thing.

      While he has said a knowledge of history is not required, he has stated that “you figure out what the clues mean”

      If something in his book hints to something historical, but he sends you there- you don’t need a knowledge of history, you just need what he has provided.

      • • Mr. Fenn, Is there any level of knowledge of US history that is required to properly interpret the clues in your poem. ~Steve R
        No Steve R, The only requirement is that you figure out what the clues mean. But a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help.f

        So he is saying NO LEVEL OF KNOWLEDGE OF US HISTORY is required to properly interpret the clues in his program. I see no way that you can then say that because there is an “obtuse” historical reference (subtle hint) in the book, that you need to then research that history and apply it as the complete solve for that clue. For example, encouraging you to read the Russell journal might be a hint to look in certain areas for a geographical feature that fits the clues.

        “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search.”

        When he says “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem” I tend to believe him (well, you also need a map and some knowledge of geography) . Also, meek is not capitalized so I interpret it as referring to a meek person or the like.

        I’m just saying that using a Mr Meek connection based on historical incidents is a real stretch.

    • When you force something, there is resistance. The only resistance I see is others POV’s.

      If someone wanted to use the continental divide as the 1st clue and Fenn said that the 1st clue is not a region or large area, then I would say that is forcing the first clue because there is resistance from what Fenn said.

      His bathing spot is in tftw (vaguely) and he said there are hints in this book. I am not choosing the 1st clue from a SB, vignette or any of his other ATF statements. There is only one canyon down there so it flows. No resistance there either.

      HOB is where I got resistance but not from Fenn because I know he has been there many times on the Madison and loved it in his younger and mid days of life. Why did that day never come for him where he never went back even though he loved that place. I think he grew tired of the crowds and doesn’t want to see them when fishing. Meek place.

      After a couple of years of armchairing all those areas and creeks above and below Hebgen, I decided that I need a clue or hint to get me heading north up the Gallatin. I remember after I had gone to Yellowstone National Park a few times and thought it was vanilla except for the thermal features and Yellowstone Canyon, I was driving on Gallatin Road and found it much more pleasurable and not crowded and said out loud “I would rather have my bones rest in eternity here instead of YNP”

      So, yes, I kinda forced that one for what I wanted it to be but still no resistance from Fenn with that area and we know he loved that area as well.
      You say: ” — NIGH = North Interstate…. is a bit of a stretch”
      It is a long stretch of road extending from WY to Bozeman.
      – and not a clean clue –
      Don’t know what you mean? It’s dirty?

      Those people that figured the first 2 clues could have been on an extended trip and solved the 1st 2 clues on one day and went by the others and treasure on another day. How many folks do you know that just go searching for the treasure in one day when they traveled a far distance to get there?

      NO “Gallitin Gateway” is not on a map but -Gallatin Gateway- is.

      • Jake, I think you have strong ideas and great thoughts… You are definitely a contender to figure everything out. But I will agree, that I thought NIGH used as an acronym was stretching a bit on this solve as well. I couldn’t really find a source calling 191 the Gallatin HW (though maybe FF would refer to it that way), let alone IGW, or NIGH. It just had a stretchy feel to it. Gotta respect the area though. Sure I’d love to have an ah ha moment, and be the one to find it; but really I am more interested in knowing the solution and the meaning behind it.

        • I think acronyms are acceptable in the poem considering your not messing with the poem. It’s not specialized knowledge that 191 is a Highway, Gallatin Road, Intrastate Highway, Gallatin Gateway.

          This clue and word that is key gives direction and the poem doesn’t lose it’s elegance and flow. This clue is the middle clue #5 as in tight focus. Nigh also means near which it is from the 3rd clue and you need to draw out of the Madison. Ever = long distance.

      • I stand corrected. Gallatin Gateway is a populated place, elevation 4,953′. I missed it because it’s too far down the Gallatin River/Highway from where I’m looking.

        The only resistance to forcing the clues is logic, which can be subjective. The logic doesn’t work for me.
        I think you can pick anywhere along the Yellowstone, Gallatin, and Madison Rivers and loosely interpret the clues to get a solve. I’ve certainly done it plenty of times. I have a half dozen “solves” in that region that even almost work.

        You said: “I decided that I need a clue or hint to get me heading north up the Gallatin” BINGO!

        Well, so did I, so I said that Gallatin Lake was a WWWH. Bit of a stretch to say the least. and where the river leaves the park is “below hoB” (YNP=hoB), or maybe tepee bridge, tepee creek, ?
        Not a good solve, but it got me on the Gallatin where I wanted to be.

        Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying you are wrong, because I cannot be the judge of that. I’m just pointing out what doesn’t work for me (like my example to get me on the Gallatin). I still like that area, and want it to work as badly as you do.

        • I also took a good look at Gallatin Lake for WWWH and couldn’t make it work. I guess we all have a built in bias to where we would like the clues or the hidey spot to be. But in the same token I look at places that Fenn loved the most in his books to help with the clues which I think are places. Location, location, location.

          • The Gallatin River Basin and other (southernly) areas above Hebgen are my favorite for the reasons you outline. But I can’t get a solid solve. And the real killer for that area is the first 2 clues 500′ ATF .

  26. excellent work Jake Faulkner! you have followed the clues precisely to the treasure and the end of his rainbow. your quest has ceased, i see your takes.

    now, where is that chest? hmmm.

    i think.

  27. Good solve, Jake. Don’t let some of these naysayers put you down. At least you had the courage (not meekness) to put a portion of your solve out there for all to see. I admit that I did not have the same courage. Furthermore, I am a liar.

    Don’t get me wrong, I didn’t intend to lie. Maybe it’s more accurate to say that I reneged on a promise that I made on this board about a year ago. I’ve been largely inactive since then. I made my first BOTG trip to Wyoming/Montana last year, and promised that if I didn’t find the chest, I would post my solve for all to see. You see, it was my intention to “retire” from the Chase if I didn’t find Indulgence, and for the most part, I have. I spent many hours poring over TTOTC, and to a lesser extent, TFTW. I truly believed that I had figured out all 9 clues in consecutive order, and married each one to the map. My solve was so perfect, I had full conviction that I was coming home 44 pounds (give or take) heavier. Maybe hubris got the best of me. I believe that it did. Because while it took me many months to hammer down clues 1-7, clues 8 and 9 were “solved” in the matter of a few hours.

    So after being retired from the Chase for a year, it is my intention to keep searching. I fully believe that I have the area narrowed down to one square mile, give or take. Still, in that area, one square mile could take months to effectively search, especially since I don’t have a handle on what the Blaze is (although I believe that Forrest himself realized that the blaze clue was too vague, and has dropped ONE whopper of a hint). I like your solution posted here. It’s not my area, but that doesn’t mean that it’s wrong. You very well may be on the right track. If I had to guess who was going to find Indulgence (other than myself), in no particular order, it would be:

    1) Yourself

    2)Dal

    3)JDA

    4) Digging Gypsy (if she hasn’t fully retired)

    Happy hunting.

    • Thanks for putting me on your list – I am flattered. Yes, Dal and Jake (along with a very few others) seem to have put in the work. Will it pay off? Only time will tell. Thanks again, I need all of the support I can get – 🙂 – JDA

      • JDA,

        I always enjoy reading your posts. You venture more than most are willing to, but are not reckless with your thoughts and opinions (this is ultimately a competition after all). When I took my BOTG trip with my father, it was one of the best experiences of my life. The border area of Wyoming, Montana, and Idaho is some of the most beautiful country I’ve ever seen. I remain convinced that the treasure is in that area. For a long time, I thought that northern New Mexico held the key, but the longer I spend on the search, the less that New Mexico makes sense. Colorado was never in the running for me, and it still isn’t. I plan on hopefully taking one trip a year to my search area until I find Indulgence, or the Chase ends. I just fell in love with the place.

        My dad is getting older, but he’s a freak of nature and is still in outstanding shape. He’s an avid outdoorsman as well as an Army veteran. I think the Grizzlies all run when they hear he’s in the woods. My big mistake, IMO, was rushing to the conclusion of my solve. The rest of it fit together so perfectly that I believe gold fever got the best of me. We also only spent 3 days searching. At the end of day 1, I thought to myself, “I’ve rushed it. I diverged from the correct path.” By that time it was too late to go back to the drawing board, so we plowed ahead. I still don’t regret the trip. Next time I’d like to have a full 7-10 days, because weather was a factor also. Aren’t you up in that neck of the woods?

        • The answer is Yes and No. I search in Wyoming, but not in YNP. Where in Wyoming, only my search team and Forrest know. Maybe some day I will disclose where I search – JDA

    • Some of the naysayers don’t even physically search or put an X on a map and are all over the map so I discount them.

      You are not the only one that lies. Anyone that said they never lied is a liar LOL.
      Keep the fire going and keep playing the lottery, because you can’t win if you don’t play.

  28. Just a random thought regarding HoB since everybody is focused on Brown Trout. Harlequin Lake is known to have beavers, which are brown and, they build lodges which are also known as homes.

    • Not so random… I have thought about Brown referring to beavers for quite some time. In fact one of my areas had vacant beaver lodges along the creek/river bank. And I thought. Wow, you could easily secret a box in that hole with minimal effort. Below the HOB, NPUYC, BAITW, effort will be worth the cold, bring a flashlight, etc it was too perfect. And the kicker was, this was very similar to one of FF stories or scrapbooks about how native americans might hide or cache things.

    • Interesting thought Michael.

      How about the American Bison – Buffalo? What is now the United States was once the HOME to millions, upon millions of Buffalo. There are several references to Buffalo in Forrest’s writings. Just might be something to consider – JDA

      • Just looked it up – Once, over 60 million roamed from northern Canada, to down into Mexico – From almost the Atlantic coast to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming and Montana – WOW what a range. JDA

      • JDA, I have considered Buffalo connections, but, and just my opinion, if I were to go with animals as Brown, Buffalo would probably rank about 5th in line: Trout, Beaver, Griz… Not even sure it is an animal at all. Other obvious thoughts are a person, a named or un-named object, a color, or perhaps none of the above, unfortunately… That is the one I struggle with the most. Though I wouldn’t guarantee I have anything correct yet.

        • Yep,
          No guarantees till you find the chest. You’re not the only one that struggles with HOB and those that think they know what or where it is don’t including me.
          Brown seems to burn a hole in my brain.

        • Yellowdog;

          What “Brown” animals have been mentioned in Forrest’s books? I think Buffalo is fairly high on that list – but that is just me.

          Think about Forrest’s fascination with Native American history and lore. Buffalo was at the heart of most of their lives. Buffalo were used for a large variety of uses – Food, skins, horns bones, sinew – – – and the list goes on

          For those that cherish Yellowstone – Buffralo galore. – Just things to think about – JDA

          • Just a thought I had while reading this thread, but Buffalo is in New York, and so is Manhattan, where the latter part of Catcher in The Rye takes place. Continuing the idea of the buffalo’s importance to Native Americans, those who are still in touch with the ancient tribal traditions might very well capitalize Buffalo because of that significant role. And let’s not forget about Buffalo Bill Cody and the town near Yellowstone that bears his name. Or the buffalo named Cody who strayed out of Yellowstone and ended up as buffalo burgers, much to Forrest’s dismay.

            I would certainly be open to the idea of Brown = Buffalo.

          • Teepees utilized buffalo skins wrapped around wooden poles…is that a literal or figurative enough argument as a HOB that includes some manner of buffalo? Gonna go research famous teepees now… 🙂

          • Hi Ray;

            It probably means nothing, but in the Buffalo Cowboy story about Cody, Forrest uses the alliteration “Big Buffalo Bulls” (Caps for emphasis) This alliteration caught my eye, because Forrest had used an alliteration “Where Warm Waters” in the poem. As I said, it probably means nothing, but it did catch my attention. Funny how the mind works – JDA

          • JDA and Ray Henry – I Spy a J.H. Sharp ‘Brown’ Teepee:

            https://dalneitzel.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/IMG_2426.jpg

            I still want to go to the McCracken Research Library at the Buffalo Bill Center of the West in Cody. A couple of good teepees out front, also.

            And Forrest said about nailing down the first clue:

            “…you don’t have anything.”

            Could that be?:

            ‘anything’ > a•NY•thing

            Like, maybe, Buffalo, ANY? Did Buffalo Bill Cody ever perform his show there?

            All IMO.

        • Bowmarc,

          There is a connection with Buffalo and a Teepee but since your searching I’ll let you figure this out.

          Good luck,
          Bur

          • Bur;

            That is interesting – a connection with Buffalo and a Teepee – The Plains Indians, that used Teepees, were nomadic, They followed the Buffalo herds across the plains – could this be your connection? HUMMM??? JDA

          • Sorry JDA,

            Not the connection. I’ll let Bowmarc do the research and see if he can find the connection that just might relate.

            By the way in your comments above you said something that I find interesting but sometimes I like to keep people guessing because it makes them think about there replies and what is there that can help in understanding this chase.

            Thanks,
            Bur

    • Just my opinion, but I think that Brown is capitalized intentionally. Where I start banging my head against the wall is the brown trout theory. Some anglers capitalize Brown Trout, whereas some don’t. In any case, it’s my opinion that Brown refers to a person, not an animal. Although I do like any theory that doesn’t focus on trout.

      • I agree that Brown is most likely capitalized on purpose. It really stands out as the only word in the poem that seems to be a proper noun. I think it may be an important “abberration”. The big question is *why* did Forrest make that word stand out that way. The only way to know for sure is to correctly solve the clues and find the chest. 🙂

        “Big B, little b. What begins with B?”
        –Dr. Seuss

    • I did like Harlequin Lake as HOB a few years ago after reading a hike article and there were swarms of mosquitoes which are brown. I don’t know if there are beavers there but did like the idea of beavers not being there anymore.
      Lack of a beaver paddle up that creek but not the mosquito pit.
      Could be HOB though, it’s in my area for that clue.

    • My only problems with beaver as Brown. Is how could you guarantee that HOB would remain HOB. Ie beaver could vacate an area, be eradicated by predators, or lack of food etc. So doesn’t seem like a 100 years or a thousand years down the road. No in the instance of something proper, Beaver Marsh, Beaver Creek, Beaver Lake, Beaver Springs, etc, at least you know the name will likely stick around for a good while even if the beaver don’t.

      • Or it could be a natural feature that looks like something that starts with B. A rock formation that looks like a beaver, bear, or brown trout could easily still be there hundreds of years from now, assuming it isn’t on a steep hillside that might collapse in an earthquake.

        • Ya, I agree, it could be and I think most likely it’s natural.
          A rock formation will stand the test of time until Mother Nature eventually wins.

  29. Anyway, my main point here is that the first clue(s) could be right under our noses, in your face, in front of you, where many would ignore it because it’s too obvious.

    Just remember, before we knew “Begin it where warm waters halt” was the first clue in the poem, many ignored the obvious.

  30. Thanks Jake,
    This was a great write up. You reason both logically and intuitively. Great images as well. I like your use of NIGH although I like the Gallatin for additional reasons. I think it’s a smart consideration. Looking forward to hitting the trail (and off trail) later this month.
    Matt

    • Just wait till I post clues 6 – 9!
      When the treasure is found I think it will be found up one of the creeks off the Gallatin River where you can paddle some nice class rapids but I don’t know of any creeks that feed the Gallatin where you can paddle.
      Happy trails to you….

  31. Hi Jake,

    This is my first comment on your writeup. Great writing, but I have one problem with WWWsH like some of other searchers. My comment may apply to all other searchers who thinks that WWWsH refers to Ojo Caliente or Madison River.

    I don’t think OC or MR (or any other rivers mentioned in the books in that matter) is the right solve since according to Fenn the books mention A LOT about these. He said that his books have SUBTLE hints, not definite or direct hints. The very fact that he mentioned a lot about these locations should eliminate these as correct candidates for the WWWsH.

    If you hid something at Place A and do not want to explicitly publish it (not implicitly or not subtle) you don’t say much about that Place A in your books or interviews. That’s what I would do. Don’t you? I would start from the least mentioned locations or places in his books. Some searchers may not like my idea, I know, but again that’s me.

    Of course I read posts and writeups about the WWWsH just in case, but as soon as posts mention about Ojo Caliente, Madison River or Gardner River I stop paying attention to the posts because of the reason I explained above. Sorry to say this, but the solve involving one of these rivers is not IMO a correct one. I’d start at a different WWWsH. I wish I may be wrong all together, but I don’t see any wrong in my logic.

    — MK

    • I don’t think Fenn ever mentioned the Firehole River in TTotC or Ojo Caliente in either book.
      I think your logic is flawed.

    • MK, relative to your message here, there’s nothing wrong with your logic.

      Fenn splatters “Yellowstone” all through TTOTC and in his interviews. There’s nothing “subtle” about any location in, or feature of, YNP. The chapter “In Love With Yellowstone” is his attempt at treasure hunt misdirection, in my opinion.

      But then a lot of searchers are not plugged into “subtle”, which went out of pop culture fashion 30 years ago.

      And, for the chest not to be in some well-defined space or Fenn-hyped area, like YNP and its adjacent areas, would mean that searchers might actually have to learn something about the geography of the Rocky Mountains. Searchers don’t seem to be into “learning”, either.

      Ken (in Texas)

      • Ken,
        Ya, he does splatter Yellowstone in books and ATF’s but even though he has done this, no one has found the treasure. Subtle could just be a *general* area and obviously not a pinpoint on a map in any area.

        You say: ” Fenn-hyped area”.
        I say – Fenn loved area.

  32. If you found a place on a map near your search area, cslled, Bear Cave Cliff, well no need to ask, I just wanted to Bragg and tell someone. Fyi it’s not called that, but just as good as if it were, maybe better.

      • What do you think about Bakers Hole, at the end of that too far to walk place? ff mom’s used to ‘brown’ their desserts in the oven.

        • And you can float fish just pass there, so put in past Bakers Hole. That info and a quarter won’t even get you a donut.

          • One more, the Firehole River is made of warm waters and it doesn’t go on and on thru the country side forever.
            P!ease stopme!!! .lol

          • “green geyser pool which spilled and spewed a small streamlet of boiling water that ran downhill for about fifty feet and into the COLD RIVER.”

  33. Jake

    You’ve been around for awhile. Let me ask you a question. When Forrest says the “places in his book are not hints and they are certainly not clues”, what do you think that means? Furthermore, you rely on TFTW as a major part of your solve, and seem to ignore that Forrest said “his book TTOTC and the poem are enough to lead the average person to the treasure.” For the life of me, I do not understand why people search near the places Forrest talks about in his book. Even though you have spent a great deal of time and effort on our solve, I don’t think you are even close…

    • I’m not Jake, but to my mind, TToTC (and TFTW) is not there specifically to provide additional clues/hints, but for two other purposes:

      1. To serve as a memoir. The obvious and simple reason.

      2. To serve as a training manual on *how* to think about things the way Forrest thinks about them, and to understand what sorts of things *he* values or regards as important. Master that and you are closer to figuring out the clues in the poem.

      So, I figure any hints in the book are there either because they just happen to be memories he wanted to tell, or to serve as “classroom examples” to get the reader to thinking in the right way to understand the poem.

      If you spend all your time separating elms from spruce, you might walk right past the Forrest.

      My opinion only.

      • That’s a reasonable way to look at the problem in it’s entirety Ray. Two things Fenn has said about the *hints* that I try to stay connected with; IF you can recognize them…. and…. figuring out which ones to use. Clear as molasses right?

      • I’ll bet you’re glad you’re not me and I’m glad I’m not you Ray.

        1. To serve as a memoir.
        I agree that was the main purpose of his memoires was to share his experiences and memories but he did say there are hints in his books (memoires) that will help with the clues in the poem.

        I agree with your #2 as well.
        Thinking in the right way would include “simplify if you can” in my book.

    • toughshed,
      I don’t think Fenn ever said “places in his book are not hints and they are certainly not clues”.

      I can’t find your other quote either by Fenn: “his book TTOTC and the poem are enough to lead the average person to the treasure.”

      When you get the right quotes from Fenn, you will have a stronger shed.

      • You apparently did look with eyes open.

        Is any specialized knowledge required to find the treasure? For instance, something learned during your time in the military, or from a lifetime of fly fishing? Or do you really expect any ordinary average person without your background to be able to correctly interpret the clues in the poem? ~mdavis19

        No specialized knowledge is required mdavis19, and I have no expectations. My Thrill of the Chase book is enough to lead an average person to the treasure.f

  34. Jake,

    Your simple theory is based on with what is relayed in ff book/s and ATF’s which is purely hypothetical. I’m not sure why you even posted at all, for example you said in regards to the hoB, “One way to figure out where this clue is, is to skip it and figure out the next few clues if you can do this. I was able to do this and the next few clues seem to work with what the poem says.”

    This statement clearly shows that you are guessing and side stepping the hoB and coming back later on. Isn’t it true that ff mentioned the clues are in consecutive order? I don’t see how you could find NPFTM and any other clue beyond the hoB, without knowing what the hoB is!

    There are others based on guesses and not a good basis to lead to a firmly sound clue/clues or reasoning.. One thing comes to mind when F gives advice to new searchers over at MW- Q1 in partial ” Do you have any advice for these new people? How should they begin the search six years after so many others? Do you feel they are at any disadvantage?

    “No, fresh eyes and new thinking might provoke a winning idea. I would advise new searchers to look for the clues in my poem and try to marry them to a place on a map. It seems like the longer one thinks about the search the more they complicate the problem.”f

    It seems to me that F is indicating that all one needs is the poem and marry it to a place on a map. My take-away the book TTOTC is not all that important in finding the treasure, however there are subtle hints and the poem in the book. I personally do not fully rely on the book, the focus is primarily marring the poem to a map, as he has mentioned more than once to marry the poem to a map and in those mentions the book is left out as well his ATF comments.

    I simply do not see things the way you do and that is okay, we all have different ideas. I do wish you happy hunting. 🙂

    Just Say’n

    • CharlieM : “I’m not sure why you even posted at all”.
      I posted it so I get feedback from people that were not sure why I posted it obviously LOL.

      That’s just it. I didn’t guess HOB as you said. I skipped it to see if the other clues could be doable and they were.

      “No, fresh eyes and new thinking *MIGHT* provoke a winning idea.” Fenn doesn’t say it will, he says it – might.

      Aren’t you the guy that said there are more thermal features in NM than Wyoming and Montana?

      • Jake Faulkner:

        I have never made those comparisons of thermal features. Must be someone else. As for your fresh eyes comment, I can’t see where I wrote will, besides the topic is focused on marring the poem to a map.

        • You do mar it well.
          Must be a typo?
          Either way, I don’t think it’s wise to ignore the obvious, just like the line in the poem “Begin it where warm waters halt”. Probably not a good idea to discount *warm* either.

  35. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in before this thread gets cold. I’d welcome any feedback. To throw some of my cards on the table, I’ve been convinced for years now that the chest is hidden in the West Yellowstone area. Now… I’m not too sure. I’m not ruling it out, because I’ve come up with a West Yellowstone solve (partial) that is absolutely dynamite. But a couple of nights ago I began thinking, “What if I’m making clues fit? What if I’m guilty of confirmation bias?” After all, at first glance it seems as though Forrest is screaming, “It’s in the Yellowstone area, you fools!” I’m beginning to think that not only is Forrest a master at double entendre, but a master of red herrings as well. This is not to say that he is malicious or mean-spirited. To the contrary, I think that he is a wonderful man.

    So I began to think about my WWWH. It hasn’t changed. Honestly, like thousands of others, my WWWH is the confluence of the Firehole and Madison Rivers. But then I started digging through old interviews with Forrest, and how he mentions that WWWH may very well be the most important clue. He doesn’t outright say that, but it’s suggested, IMO. So I began to think about alternative meanings of “where warm waters halt.” I threw geography out the window. And I came up with a new idea that I really liked.

    Keep in mind that this whole time, I completely disregarded the state of Colorado. After all, he doesn’t mention it ONCE during TTOTC. In hindsight, it may have been completely foolish to disregard an area that has at least a 25% chance of holding Indulgence. And then I found a place that knocked my socks off. I thought to myself, this can’t be a coincidence, right? And then I found other locations very near this new WWWH that also blew my mind. But alas, I can’t seem to nail down other clues from the poem, at least not from Google Earth. Is this what Forrest meant by, “The little girl in India can get no closer than the first two clues.”? I am putting the Yellowstone area and the Firehole River on the back burner for now. It’s time to think outside the box.

    • RedneckFromMS;

      I have never been a fan of YNP or the surrounding area – Just because Forrest mentions it SOOOOO often in his books. He does mention Wyoming, and as you say, mothing about Colorado, and not a whole lot about NM, other than gallery “stuff”. So, my bet is still on Wyoming. It has a LOT going for it as far as I am concerned – JMO – JDA

      • I hope that Forrest will give us one more clue at 10 years anniversary of Chase start (summer of 2020) – just cut 4 states list to 3 states 🙂
        If it happen I bet he will remove NM. It will give huge advantage for Forrest and his family members – no more stupid intruders in their properties https://www.apnews.com/ee8f597004aa4328b04aa9f6b60d2111
        “I’ve said 100 times that the treasure is not on my property,” Fenn said. “It’s north of Santa Fe.”
        But it’s only 90 miles from Santa Fe to Colorado state i,e, only small part of search area (<15%) will be removed.

        • Andy,

          All that information you said has been known for years. It didn’t stop the dumb-ass people to still break into /attempt to, fenn’s property, right? Those types are not going to care…

          Would I like to see, for example, another state go by way of Idaho, Utah, Nevada… Sure. But WhatIF those states can’t be eliminated because of a clue reference?

          One thing [ out of many ] that I would like to know, would be, to clarification of the comment; ~ There are many WWsH in the RM’s.

          Is this comment referencing the same type [WWWH] related to the clue [first clue] in the poem, or a generalization of different possible interpretations the reader can create from features within the range?

          • Agreed, it will not stop them 🙂
            For me WWWH are thermal springs and there are a lot of them in RM. The measured or estimated discharge of 725 of the thermal springs in RM amounts to 449,758 gallons a minute, or 1,002 cubic feet a second.
            Thus, WWWH mentioned by Forrest in poem is not unique place in terms of physical nature (IMO). And in many of these WWWH locations you can find some canyon that will lead you down. But in all these wrong WWWH locations you will never find hoB.
            So, I’ll never start my BOTG before I don’t have some hoB that close enough to WWWH. It can be very elusive hoB but it should be there (again IMO).
            I think that other clues (after hoB) code some conditions/properties between “put in point” and final spot. Forrest said: “there isn’t a human trail in very close proximity to where I hid the treasure” so meek will not go there.

            “FF, you say “There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt.” My question- Is there more than 1 home of Brown? Thanks, Jill”
            No Jill, there is only one home of Brown in my poem. F

          • Andy S.,
            Fenn: “there is only one home of Brown in my poem.”
            IN MY POEM –

            This tells me there is only one WWWH, canyon, HOB, creek, blaze etc….
            In his poem and in his mind.
            Makes sense to me.

        • @ Andy & redneck:

          FWIW and IMO, I THINK fenn cut a state, or two, about six years ago, with his remarks……and New Mexico was not one of them.

          Before JDA, and others grab their hearts and keyboards; since I am not going to disclose my basis for that opinion, at this time, I will reiterate IMO…and, I THINK he did!! LOL!! 🙂 🙂

          Good Luck to Everybody……………loco

          • I’m looking for a quote from ff some time ago where he said something that could be taken as eliminating a state or two. Anybody ken, Loco?!? lol…

          • He’s probably referring to the pinyon comment, which in my mind has never been satisfactorily (that is, with 100% certainty) discounted as eliminating Wyoming and Montana. But, personally, I still keep coming back to N and W of YNP.

          • oz10,
            I purchased JCM’s documents initially just to see if he had noted a few of fenn’s more obscure comments, that I had identified….he had.
            TarryScant is missing a few.
            🙂

            @ken….. 🙂
            @jake…..YUP!!

          • Well Loco,
            My Big Gut tells me to eliminate CO, WY and NM for where the treasure is.

          • @jake:
            Well, can’t fault you with the gut feeling. I always say go with the gut ‘if’ ya don’t have solid info to base a decision on. Me. i’d hold two of those and discard the other two.

            Nice write-up, Jake. Well done, kudos to you.

    • RedneckFromMS

      Sure I’ve looked around both WY & MT when I first was introduced to the Chase and felt that Yellowstone and W Yellowstone had been searched extensively by searchers over the years. The entire area around where Forrest spent his summers was too obvious of a place to search. I felt that F is smart to hide the treasure in a place that is greatly not so obvious for searchers.

      I stopped looking in those two states as there is no place for water to truly halt in the real world, I’ve also looked for places where the waters would be comfortable, *warm* and found none. Where the Gibbon and the Fire Hole rivers merge together the waters do not halt even where Forrest bathed.

      One has to stop and think, if the poem is to be married to a map then every clue is of a real place and things and not of a fictitious halting of waters regardless where scalding water meets cold. The idea of waters have to be warm right from the start in the RM is practically impossible in those many places where waters halt. The water coming out of the RM is cold, then turns warm when it brakes out to lower plateaus, high deserts and desert areas and can be considered warm waters. Its about where the river starts is where the water halts for the lack of snow packs high up. No snow packs the river, *waters* halts at its headwaters. Of course that is my opinion only.

      Just Say’n

      • Charlie M,
        You mentioned desert for a warming of the waters, idea. It reminded me of this Q&A [ the answer ].
        I was only going to post a small portion, but thought I think the whole answer should be reminded, in general.

        Yes Mrs. M, your email is timely, and because you are new to the search I will reiterate what has been said many times on blogs and in the media. If you plan to search in a National Forest or a National Park you should ask a ranger to brief you on your particular area. They can advise you much better than I can.
        It is easier to get lost or stranded in the winter time because the weather is such a factor. But the spring and summer conditions can be just as unforgiving if you are not prepared.
        Please don’t ever overextend yourself. I was 80 or about when I hid the treasure and it was not a difficult task. **I will soon be 87 and I could go back and get it if I were so inclined,** I think.
        If you or your son have any physical limitations please don’t attempt the search. Many flatlanders suffer altitude sickness in the Rockies.
        Don’t go into the mountains alone. Two searchers together is an absolute minimum, but three or even four is better. Stay within eyesight of each other. A whistle can be valuable if you get separated.
        Food, water, proper clothing, matches, bug spray, and a GPS are requirements. Cell phone service is not available in many mountain locations, but take one anyway. If you do have service check in with a friend at home several times a day, and give them a GPS location. They should know where and when you started your search and when you expect to return.
        Wearing waders in fast moving water is dangerous, especially if you don’t have the chest type with a tight belt around your chest that will keep most of the water out if you should fall. The rocks in most moving water are slippery and falling is easy. Your waders should have felt soles and not rubber. Don’t take chances, and remember that in many cases no can be a better answer than yes.
        You don’t have to move big rocks, or scale a precipice to get to the treasure. Stay away from dangerous terrain.
        The summer sun can sap your strength so it is best to wear long sleeves, long pants, and always a hat, especially in New Mexico. At the first sign of fatigue, turn back. If you are not camping plan to be out of the mountains before dark. **If your solve is in the desert, get a new solve,** and remember, much of the Rio Grande River is not in the Rocky Mountains.
        Generally, black bears are not a problem, and they normally will run at first sight. The grizzly can be a problem but rarely is. If you are hiking, use your whistle so as to not surprise him. If you see cubs quickly move away. It is not a good idea to make eye contact with any dangerous animal because they may see it as a threat. Use bear spray only as a last resort.
        Caution and common sense are your best weapons in the mountains. Hope this helps Mrs. M, but you should also do your own research. f

        • Seeker, – Yep sure in the mountains, your point? I’m not starting or searching anywhere in any desert if that is what you might be thinking. Warming of waters with out mixing scalding and cold waters.

      • CharlieM: “I stopped looking in those two states as there is no place for water to truly halt in the real world”

        Are we talking about a *fake world*?
        When, how and where does *water truly halt* in our universe as we know it? LOL

        Water doesn’t *truly halt* in the real world or universe. It’s always moving as everything else is.

        You say: “I’ve also looked for places where the waters would be comfortable, *warm* and found none.”
        Maybe you have to physically get in the water to get it???

    • I’d like to say: I’m sorry to see you go away from the Yellowstone area”.
      But I’m thrilled that many of you are looking in other places because Yellowstone is so obvious, it should have been found by now.

      The back burner will burn the brightest.
      You say: “I threw geography out the window”.
      That statement by you says it all!
      Not worth going any further by me or you for that point.

      • I know you don`t know me but i too believe the chest is in YSNP . and i too think it is so obvious ! Jake i think your starting place is spot on but HEAR ME AND LISTEN GOOD , you may very well be one of the searchers that got the first couple clue`s right , then walked right past the chest . fellow searcher.

        • JPE,
          I didn’t start the Chase until 2015.
          I don’t think the chest is in YNP but I do think the begin spot is obvious in YNP. The park seems too crowded for me.

          • Well i see i stuck my foot in my mouth again , after reading your solve again i am sorry about that . i have been in search for 2 years , read TTOTC over and over and of course the poem many times , i think WWWH is right where you think it is and the chest is somewhere around 10 miles from there . can not tell to much about it now but i learned somethink from a small book that may have anwsered the HOB clue.

  36. The clues are consecutive 2f sez. So I find two creeks not to far apart. At the heavy load creek I now try to find the wize blaze… In a direction ahead of me. But, he said if you have been wize , so maybe the blaze is behind me, so I should look down right where I am, at the heavy load creek. What do you think of that idea?

    • “But, he said if you have been wize , so maybe the blaze is behind me, so I should look down right where I am, at the heavy load creek. What do you think of that idea?”

      I think your idea of the blaze behind you is accurate but I don’t think you look down at heavy loads area because there are only 2 things there. (Just) Water high and heavy loads. I think the blaze was passed on the way to those 2.

    • Mustag;

      In my solve heavy loads is not a creek.
      In my solve when I am at my heavy loads place, I have no reached the blaze.
      What about Water High? Where does it fit in with your solve?

      Bottom line, we don’t match up very well – JMO – JDA

  37. Hi, RedneckFromMS.

    I’m not sure that there’s a lot of firm information in your post for us to provide feedback on, but I would agree that looking in areas of the Rockies not specifically mentioned by Forrest is a good angle to pursue.

    However, I think throwing geography “out the window” is not wise. One of the clear pieces of advice that Forrest has given is that geographic knowledge will be helpful in finding the treasure.

    • Thanks for the reply, Blex.

      That’s pretty much my new approach. What state is conspicuous by its absence? Certainly it would be Colorado. If you wanted the Chase to last for as long as possible, would you really talk ad nauseam about where it is? I have always discounted Colorado, as New Mexico, Wyoming, and Montana are clearly as states that Forrest has a deep connection with. But what if there was something we were all missing? Until 3 days ago, I would’ve chuckled at anybody who suggested Colorado was the correct state. And then I read TTOTC again. Slowly. For probably about the 30th time, if I’m being honest.

      Don’t misunderstand me. I’m not “throwing geography out the window” completely. I’m throwing it out simply in regard to the meaning of the poem. Because you see, I think that much of the poem isn’t about a chest full of gold at all. And so, beginning with “As I have gone alone in there” and ending with “Begin it where warm waters halt,” I began thinking of what the poem was really about. And then I began thinking of alternate meanings of words and phrases, and Forrest’s life in general.

      And then I had my eureka moment. I do believe that several of Forrest’s “subtle hints” are about as subtle as a sledgehammer. There are sentences in the book that frankly seem like they just don’t belong there. And those “hints” are staring me in the face quite prominently at the moment from Google Earth, closely grouped. Of course, it could be series of massive coincidences. I guess we’ll see.

      -RFM

      • RFM,

        Of course there’s subtle hints that are like being it with a sledgehammer. One being “at age almost eighty…”
        fenn later repeats ~ don’t go where an 80 yr old carrying a heavy backpack can’t.

        Hint? Most might dismiss this as hint, because it doesn’t give an answer. It is basically saying if you think fenn couldn’t do that, you’re probably right…

        Yet how many solves have been described almost impossible for most people to travel twice: down and up a canyon, down and up a river, while traveling 10 miles [or more] through a solve, one way?

        Unfortunately, that hint is not what folks want to help them to keep a possible solve in check…
        Because if an 80 yr old can travel two trips, in and out of a canyon, two trips down and up a river, traveling 10 miles one way [ a total of 20 mile for one round trip and 40 miles for two round trips ] and still walked less than a few miles, and did it all in one afternoon… lol… I quit… That guy is not human, he’s superman.

        But RFM, I am curious if you could give an example to your idea of that sledgehammer hinting, line of thinking.

        • It’s been awhile since I have been here and I have one. I had thought about using a jackhammer to find the trove but didn’t want to damage it.
          Several folks have mentioned railroads. Maybe the sledgehammer is for building it. Of course I dismissed the railroad idea from CO. I can’t amagine tools being needed but I wouldnt put anything past the master.
          At this point in the chase I could use a good hammer to the head. Might clear out some of the dead ends still lingering.
          Sorry I just read the post above should go to Redneck since that’s were it came from.
          IMO only. Just sayin.
          GH

          • GH – I think we might all need something bigger than a hammer. It seems as tho the solution is spread out in front us and we are just walking over it. Failure to see, failure to hear, failure to understand what may be a very simple thing that we are all making way too complicated. Hopefully I will land on the right square in this game and it will take me home – that is if my engine doesn’t give out first.
            As always all IMO.

        • Then again, can anybody really confirm a bona fide subtle hint from ttotc to the clues? Has anyone in the last 9 years?

  38. “If you don’t know where it is, go back to the first clue.f”.

    Raise your hand if you don’t know where it is? Oh good, 100% participation!

    The way I see it, your WWWH may be valid IF:

    1) There are many places like it in the Rocky Mountains (can’t be too unique).
    2) It will surely last at least 100 years, perhaps several hundred. But, maybe not 1000.
    3) There is a canyon in reasonable proximity…probably…
    4) You can imagine people arriving at your WWWH, and not realizing it’s WWWH (can’t be literally warm waters halting).
    5) A little girl in India can figure it out.

    Otherwise, I’d get a new WWWH.

    I only have one question, what IS “WWWH” (not where…WHAT). Until we have that one “nailed down”, we can’t even try to find the RIGHT WWWH. We need a consensus as to what it even IS.

    Also I see a lot of talk about HOB. I’m not even gonna attempt that one. He said “if I told you that, you’d go straight to the treasure”, it can’t be anything obvious. In addition, consider this reddit post:

    =============
    On Dec. 30, 2014, FF said: “I know of a few searchers who have been reasonably close to the treasure puttputt, but there is no indication that they knew it. No one has given me the correct solve past the first two clues.f”
    On May 20, 2015, FF said: “There have been a few people within 500 feet. I think there have been people within a couple hundred feet. They figure the first two clues, but they don’t get the third and fourth and they go right past the treasure chest.”
    On Nov. 2, 2015, FF said: “Searchers have come within about 200 feet. Some may have solved the first four clues, but I am not certain.”
    So, it would seem that before 5/20/15, no one had correctly identified more than 2 clues. The home of Brown is likely Clue #3 or #4. So, any hoB that was proposed before 5/20/15 cannot be correct. This would seem to be all of the major ones, like Hebgen Lake, Nez Perce Creek, Lamar Ranger Station. These cannot be correct if people proposed them more than a few years ago.
    On the other hand, the first two clues have been correctly identified as early as the summer of 2012. On 9/26/2012, FF said “Several months ago some folks correctly mentioned the first two clues to me in an email and then they went right past the other seven, not knowing that they had been so close.”
    ==================

    • Very good point !!! But here`s something to think about : Early in the search is when FF was saying most of this , and where were searchers looking early in the search . ” YELLOWSTONE “

    • You ask one question: “I only have one question, what IS “WWWH” (not where…WHAT)”

      What difference does it make to know WHAT it is?
      We are looking for places (WHERE) on a map.
      I don’t care what it is. But it does seem to be where warm waters halt. Duh?

      • Jake;

        If you do not know WHAT the WWWsH refers to, how can you find it on a map or in reality with BotG? Gotta’ know WHAT you are looking for before you can find WHERE it is at – JMO – JDA

        • The most important thing is where the clues are not what they are.
          You gotta know WHERE you need to be. Location, location, location. PLACES not what.

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