Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…

pinkPlease click on the comment balloon below to contribute to the discussion of  Forrest Fenn’s Treasure Hunt. Please note that many topics have their own pages. Please scroll through the blog to see all the discussion pages. There are also stories, scrapbooks, searcher’s reports general information, tips from Forrest, a rumors blog and even email responses from Forrest. So please look around and if you want to make a comment please use the most appropriate page.




330 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…

    • LOL, JDA.
      I might be ‘somewhat responsible’ – in part… I don’t fortune cookie my post, but attempt to explain possibilities and thoughts, thought process with information we have. I should limit my word count for my postings. Yeah, that might be it… lol

      However… Um… I’ll, err… just stop there.

      • Ill pick it up there JDA I had a dream last night that I found Indulgence the odd was a’lot that should of been around me wasn’t the only thing i saw was Brown as I walked by it but i had her in my hands still in the wood I had to move out fast, to fast to marvel gaze. this is the second dream like this must mean I’m thinking about the location of the Tc, and the quest to much. I Did have a smile in my dream last night Sir thank you for your service happy 4th every one be safe out there and happy dreams to you all.

    • I just wanted to thank everyone at the fennboree 2019 ti enjoyed the time spent with you all thank you Forrest it was a good time Titan was so tuckerd out he’s still sleeping. you a good bunch of souls thank you all again.

  1. I think it’s odd no one has found the treasure yet. Fenn had a gut feeling which turned out to be heartburn and then he said he was frankly surprised it wasn’t found but yet here we are.
    I’m not surprised at his marketing skills although they don’t point to an end.

        • Well, you already know I’m fringe. But I’ll throw it out there. I think “gut feeling” confirms my bias for Elmo, WY as the blaze, as St. Elmo is St. Erasmus, and the windlass is his symbol. The same as what dragged that one guy out of the Vietnamese forest.

          I don’t mean to usurp my ideas. I only wish to propose something to consider.

          • Elmo seems like a high desert plain. I don’t see many trees there. It is in the highlighted area of his map but I don’t think it’s woodsy enough unless the clues take you out of that desert and into the wood.

          • Jake – I don’t believe the treasure chest is near Elmo, only that this place is the blaze. For me the poem then continues on to the end with other places, and then even back to the first stanza.

          • If the blaze is in Elmo, WY but the treasure is not or near Elmo, then how does the – look quickly down- work with this scenario?

            I always thought the blaze and treasure would be pretty close together.

          • Jake – so the theory is “look quickly down” is a clever allusion to local poet who has a headstone in the Hanna cemetery. From the headstone, we are to derive “Echoes”, or the letter E if using NATO phonetic letters.

            “Quickly” has a strange synonym with “scalded cat”. I don’t know why as this seems cruel. Forrest discussed “scalding chickens” to help pluck feathers in the book. I make the leap that quickly and scald are related. At the same time, “skald” is a Nordic word for poet. In Hanna, Betty Poulos is known for living there and published privately a book of poetry called “Echoes”, and this book is depicted on her headstone. Betty Poulos would therefore be the “skald chicken” as “Poulos” means “chicken”.

            “Quest to cease” is the location that contains a lot of Finns, like “quest to Finnish”.

            I think “But tarry scant with marvel gaze” suggests two things. First, as it is written, we are to ignore something. I think this means the coal miner marble slab observance in Hanna. I think he uses the word “marble” in TTOTC as an allusion to “marvel”, because of the “fricative v” sound in Spanish. It converts to a “b” sound. This particular slab (or scant) has several coal miners (tar is a byproduct of coke processing) asterisked because there were two miner accidents (he has two photos of “minor accident” in his book).

            Finally on this stanza, “just take the chest” would be to take the arc (ark) street named Tipperary to the place where some are resting “in peace”. Tipperary has a linkage to macaw, like Sinbad, via its etymology “Ara”. And it’s a long way (an old war song), like a long road home.

            This cemetery also contains other familiar words, like “While”, for example.

          • OOK, I asked.
            What the fricative is going on here?
            Do you really think this is what Fenn meant by looking up words and using your imagination?

            NATO phonetic letters
            scalded cat
            Nordic word
            fricative v

            I think you left the poem somewhere.

        • I am not authority here or there and am surprised you haven’t found it seeing all the time you spent. We should have been partners.

          • Nope no partners no ties. Appreciate the offer. But since you seem to have changed direction why partner. Your comments to everyone just seem to be so sure of yourself. Just seems that your so on track to be the winner.

          • What do you suppose might be “GUT” feeling mean. Me personally thinks it has nothing to do with his digestive track. Rather a geographical feeling!

          • I have only put in equal of maybe 5 months searching to the years of posting you have been on here. “Years”

          • Travis Brown – “gut feeling” to me is a choice of words that matches with the repeating imagery pattern of “windlass” or rather “hoist”, “crane”, “winding/unwind”, “turn”, “haul”, and “lift”. As such, the matching map feature would be Elmo, which also happens to be a symbol for blaze.

        • Travis Brown … there are a lot of searchers who want you to believe that they are an authority on the hunt, or an authority on Forrest Fenn. And not one of them has found the chest, much to my everlasting glee.

    • What seems likely to me (although I am only guessing) is that he had reason to believe one or more searchers were on the right track and thinking in the right way (perhaps from something he read online or from something someone said in an email to him), then they later posted/sent a followup which gave him reason to believe they had missed something important and “walked out of the poem”.

      Close may be good enough for horse shoes, hand grenades, and nuclear war, but it isn’t good enough to find the chest.

    • Jake,
      IMHO these feelings and statements from ff are based on “proof of proximity” and tempered with disbelief that -anyone- could be that close and resist that pull of carnal greed. Only upon the “experience of proximity” will the reality of an ethical dilemma manifest – a feeling of satisfaction tempered with genuine frustration.

  2. My 2 cents, Mr. Fenn likes to place or carve his initials into or on things. He’s stated that “if it weren’t for my name I wouldn’t have anything at all.” TTOTC pg. 25. His name is on his bell’s and etc. It’s important to him. Imo his initials will be in close proximity to the TC and, yes I’m still searching. Have fun and be safe this 4th.

    • Take two capital Fs, flip one left-to-right and place them so they share a single vertical line. Now tilt the crossbars to point down and to either side.

      It’s a stylized tree, like the way you might turn “FF” into a cattle brand.

      In this way, his name can literally be represented by a symbol for a tree.

      • Hi Ray: an F mirrored on its left (like you’ve described) also looks like the symbol for Texas Tech in good ole’ Lubbock.

  3. There are a lot of people say they have the location, but there are a lot of talkers that have never seen the Rocky Mountains or thigh high grass and scrub or a slide of rock from pebbles to a small car a mile wide and 2 miles long. I think the chest maybe a long time in being found. It has so many possibilities, I recently saw where someone has a list of a thousand plus hot springs, I personally don’t believe it is geothermal. But who knows.

    • Was that a list of all US hotsprings?
      I only have 283 hotsprings in the search states, 985 more in other states for a total of 1268.
      I have no idea whether WWWH is geothermal or not, so I consider all possibilities with GE.

      Go to a hotsprings, check out the canyon, look for a home of Brown, rinse, think of new home of Brown concept, repeat.

      Also for each home of Brown concept, look for nearby alternative WWWH concepts.


      • MBG: tried that approach 4 years ago: systematic proximity search for relevant named features in close proximity. Epic fail after 1000 hours of searching over 3000 15-minute topo maps. Stopped, as I rasterscan searched from north to south, when I got 2/3rds of the way through Colorado. Realized it would never work, and that the answer was much simpler.

        • then where’s the chest? You shouldn’t even make the assertion that you know something that others don’t. It’s rude. You do it over and over. Boosts your ego, I guess. Sorry you need it.
          I guess your carrot/sage/sunlight basin WWWH solution should forever remain a secret.

        • Wow: who crapped in your cornflakes today? How does sharing my own initial doomed strategy of visually searching topos imply I know where the treasure is hidden? Having a good solution to WWWH is clearly no guarantee of finding the chest, given that the first searchers to solve it did so over 6 years ago.

          • Zap,
            Bonehead comment to say the least! Your insight and effort is much appreciated by way too many to be simply diminished by some unknown entity. I told my grandson about you and he said “OH MAN, I would love to do that some day! ”

            Zap you’re one in a million and WE’RE LUCKY TO HAVE YOU WITH US!!

            What did Forrest say? The best revenge is wearing the bracelet! I do believe I know what rock he crawled out fromunda.

            Thanks again for all you bring to us here at HOD!

            Deano Bravo

          • Zap, you are 100% right when said that “having a good solution to WWWH is clearly no guarantee of finding the chest”. Forrest did mentioned that some searchers solved/identified first 2 clues but their arrival to the spot in close proximity to TC (200-500 feet) was an aberration and they were oblivious to its connection with the poem. Forrest also added: “more than several searchers have been at or near Where Warm Waters Halt but don’t understand it’s connection to the poem.”
            Simple conclusion here: you can find WWWH and even CD, they drive via canyon some distance and accidentally stop near PIBTHOB point (just an aberration). Chaotic walking around this point can even bring you to 200-500 feet distance from blaze and TC. But since you don’t know that you are below hoB you don’t know correct direction to the blaze and your search will be useless.
            IMO but Forrest knew that WWWH can be easy solved so he coded next clue (hoB) very well. If you solve hoB the probability of finding TC becomes close to 100%.

        • I simply over-reacted to “and that the answer *was* much simpler” (my emphasis on WAS) which implies you have “the answer” and we don’t, and you aren’t telling. I’m overly sensitive to those that feel the need to say they know something they are not willing to share. Obviously all of us know things that we won’t share, it doesn’t need to be flaunted. Some posters are worse than others . You generally float and critique ideas without the “flaunting unshared ideas”. So, my apology.

          As for giving up on that methodology, I can relate to that. But, the primary methodology for armchair searching (for me. anyway) is A. Target a WWWH, B. Do your canyon thing C. Look for a HOB, meek,creek that fits your idea of ff’s ideal place. Sometimes it works out of order, like you found a neat hoB, is there a WWWH/canyon candidate nearby? Or, you started looking at the great fly fishing rivers. Or, you say “hey, that’s a cool green area on GE, I wonder what’s there”? Having databases to say what is happening around that area is useful.

          But, I take a literal approach in the sense that things could be metaphorical at any level, but there are not encoded numbers or trivial letter manipulations required to solve/form the clues.

          I do my BOTG thing within a month.

          BTW, I threw out the cornflakes



          • Hi meBigGuy: I can certainly see how you could have taken my post as being boastful, so I apologize for not wording it better. I should have emphasized that the strategy I was employing was never going to work *for me*, and that the solution I fell into (and am still using) was less complicated in comparison with that somewhat mind-numbing strategy.

            I should not assume that someone carrying out a similar map-focused strategy couldn’t make a connection that I would miss. Rather, the thought I was trying to get across was that ~if~ my WWWH is correct, then a GIS-like placename search would not find it.

            You explained your methodology as “A. Target a WWWH, B. Do your canyon thing C. Look for a HOB, meek,creek that fits your idea of ff’s ideal place.”

            That’s essentially what I had been doing: trying to match up (for instance) warm springs with nearby canyons, possible HoB’s, and anything that might be construed as being “no place for the meek,” “heavy loads,” “water high,” “wise”, etc. In short, trying to minimize the area of a circle that would contain as many of these elements as possible.

            But the more time I spent doing this, the more I became concerned about just how many possibilities there were, and how no one of them was really any more special than the others. It didn’t help that Forrest was strongly suggesting that his WWWH was something that could (and should) be nailed down with confidence, coupled with the apparent ability of Little Indy to solve it with just the poem and a map of the U.S. Rockies. If WWWH was some tiny warm spring or creek feeding a stream or river leading to a canyon, how would miss Indy discover it with such a coarse map? Forrest’s comments just seemed to be leaning in the direction of something more clever or “big picture.”

            Good call on the cornflakes. 🙂

          • Zap,

            Little Indy as you say, is from Jenny Kyle and doesn’t exist. Little Indy did not come from F.

            So I only ask why in using Little Indy in your post for reasoning, or suggested reasoning or even an example?

            Just Ask’n

          • zap,
            re: lil-indy. I see no way to make sense of the little indy comment in light of the following (few is more than 2):

            “It helps to know something about Rocky Mountain geography when making plans to search for my treasure. Rocking chair ideas can lead one to the first few clues, but a physical presence is needed to complete the solve. Google Earth cannot help with the last clue. f”

            I also ask, how do you use it to justify anything?

            Also, you can use
            “You over simplify the clues. There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts. F”
            to justify the approach that you better be looking at the many places (WWWH, whatever that means) ‘]cause there are no shortcuts.


          • Hi CharlieM: yes, Little Indy was a lark of Jenny’s. But just because the question involves a hypothetical situation doesn’t mean that Forrest can’t (or won’t) answer truthfully based on the information provided. He was under no obligation to answer the question at all — he could have just declined, as he has done with many other questions.

          • Hi mBG: “I see no way to make sense of the little indy comment in light of the following (few is more than 2):…” (followed by the rocking-chair ideas ATF). I take it you see a conflict in that you believe Indy should be able to solve more than just two clues. There are at least two ways out of this conundrum. The first is that general searchers (we) have no restrictions on resources: we’ve got the poem, the books, any maps we want, Google Earth, dictionaries, thesauruses, and so on. Little Indy is hamstrung because Jenny used the word “only”:

            “Can a little girl in India, who speaks good English, but only has your poem and a map of the US Rocky Mountains, work out where the treasure is?”

            Frankly, with just those two resources, it’s remarkable (and possibly revealing) that she can solve any clues at all.

            But I said there were at least two ways out of the paradox. The second is the way in which Forrest answered. He never said she could only solve two clues. To be honest, he didn’t say she could “solve” any, but it was somewhat implied in his answer:

            “The little girl in India cannot get closer than the first two clues.”

            “Closer” can take on a number of meanings. Suppose he means physically closer to the treasure. What if the third clue is further from the chest (as the crow flies) than the first and second? Maybe Indy can actually solve 3 clues, but in this scenario she still couldn’t get “closer” than the first two clues. And by answering in that fashion, he doesn’t have to reveal how many clues she can solve.

  4. Well the wait has been QUITE long this year, but I’m finally ready to kick off my 3rd BOTG season starting tomorrow morning before sun-up! Have a Happy Independence Day, everyone!

  5. 1, I, eye, eye on $1
    2, half, 50, John F Kennedy
    4, quarter, 25

    I-25 Colorado?

    (3 ,third, threepence, eightieth of pound sterling, Regina Elizabeth, on back (cocked 1/4) is diamond pineapple design like Fenn fence in book . ……or 3 siblings, middle.? I cant get 3 to be definitive at all here)

  6. 1, I, eye, eye on $1
    2, half, 50, John F Kennedy
    4, quarter, 25

    I-25 Colorado?

    (3 ,third, threepence, eightieth of pound sterling, Regina Elizabeth, on back (cocked 1/4) is diamond pineapple design like Fenn fence in book . ……or 3 siblings, middle.? I cant get 3 to be definitive at all here)

    • Before I-25 was built through Colorado, a local highway followed the same route through Denver. It was called the Valley Highway because portions of it were below the grade of the surrounding land. Some old-timers still refer to I-25 in Denver as the Valley Highway. Perhaps Canyon Down = Valley (Highway) South ?

      I’m not entirely convinced, but you’re welcome to use the idea if it fits your solve.

  7. Copperhead, I don’t know what you are talking about, but if it helps, think about those 25 traveling kids on a rope crossing a road. My old road map showed 25 named exits. The RED ‘Don’t Touch’ message could refer to the unmentioned state. Colorado = red. Good luck.

      • Hi big guy…. sorry, I erred… TTOTC said 20 kids, not 25. There was a matching number of main exits on I-25 when I counted. That road stretches across Colorado’s ‘front line’ where warm moist air of the old pirate-infested Caribbean halts & gets turned back to feed the tornado’s across the plains.

        Both the store FF visited & the teachers said ‘don’t touch’. Fenn told the 20 kids to ‘touch’. Just something to ponder.

        Another ponderable is FF’s comment that “two can keep a secret if one is dead” … is that ‘one’ already in a grave at the hidey place? With FF’s body there too, it might satisfy “riches old & new” .

  8. SoCal celebrated the 4th in classic fashion: with the largest earthquake we’ve had in 25 years: 6.4 up near China Lake. Rockin’ and a rollin’…

    • Some weeks ago one of the searches (on this site it think) mentioned that he had bought and was rehabbing a home for himself in Searles Valley (center of the EQ)…..I forgot his name but I hope we hear from him and he is ok.

      • Second, even stronger quake Friday evening. Altho felt in a wide area as some rolling, violent shaking near the epicenter. (BTDT x2, not fun.) Sounds like some significant damage in HDD’s area of Trono. Heartbreaking that he just recently finished his dream home rehab but encouraging no reports of major injuries.

        Hope you’re able to check in soon, HDD. May you continue to lift your eyes to the mountains – help is on the way.

  9. I think today would be a great day to ring Forrest’s bell. Let freedom ring! Happy Independence day and thank you Forrest for helping ring freedom in both with and without your bells.

    • Just saw KPro’s post from Nelika that suggest Forrest likely rang that bell at 2pm today.

      “And if the revival of the early American custom of ringing bells on Independence Day will have become established, I would consider this one thing the most important occurrence connected with my life.”
      -Eric Sloane

  10. I/m just trying to out run time whether he throws tornadoes earth quakes mud slides or whatever but he’s right behind me I can’t shake him. but i can see him in the big picture and the mirror, be safe out theree,

  11. any time you leave the house your braving the journey so being brave, was never meant to cost your life if you think safe. iv had to do it i mean wait a week or two the water will be down no matter how long it takes. your life is the most valuable thing you have think about it, always;
    TheBurch crew yae Titan too

  12. There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the chest

    can’t ignore any of the nouns

    Q- how many words do you come up with that are not useful?

    I get 23.

    • That tricky key has left many grinding teeth, including Alice. I store a picture of it on my thumb drive, the key that is. After all, security is more than just a shadow hidden under a Linus blanket.

        • I may have your answer since I have been in self punishment for my Holliday choices. I say let the ghost and the fictitious surface onto the realness of what was and is to be. And that the key fits the door correct to me
          And that it may be door number 1,2,or 3. Spin the wheel and whatcha go to lucky o split the aces double down before the clock strikes 12 and you start to frown. Let there be light after dark and it shine high and bright for that may only be the best of me.

  13. In other words, few seems to be a part of some pretty important ATF’s. Where do we use the reference for the word “few” to figure out what f is talking about? (without just guessing)

    A- …………….?

  14. For an “odd” and end, I find it odd that Forrest once wrote: “I read all emails unless they are too long, unsigned, or ask for an advantage or confirmation.” I find myself wondering what “too long” is, in Forrest’s mind. We have many examples of emails he’s shared on Dal’s that seem pretty long to me. Examples include Scrapbooks 57, 58, 66, 67, and 71. (There are others equally long or longer.) Perhaps some searchers have sent some real tomes?

    • To my mind, an email that is “too long” is one that keeps going on long after the author has stopped saying anything. Not long, but too long to read.

    • Zap… Put yourself in Fenn’s shoes. He probably scans most mails for the general idea … maybe looking for a significant word or two. I think his comment was perhaps made in hopes that some of the more prolific folks would tone it down a bit. There are some that most likely email him frequently with long tales and probably in the wrong area anyway… You gotta give him a ton of credit to have stayed this tight for this long.

      • Hi Ken: I guess the point I was trying to make is that I’m surprised he has the time to read emails that are longer than a paragraph or two when he’s getting over a hundred a day. That his definition of an email that ~isn’t~ too long seems to be quite generous. I have no doubt that there are many searchers who have emailed him hundreds of times, and others who have sent him their 50-page solutions by registered mail.

        • I get it Zap. I just think that Fenn is very invested in his Chase and reads a lot… just like those that have read every thread on this blog. Sound familiar?

    • Zap, thanks for links to “too long” emails in SBs. Never read them before but when I read them after your link I just realized that Forrest got to much “searcher’s ideas diarrhea” or SID (IMO, as I called it). All these SBs that you have mentioned belongs to SID. I don’t understand why Forrest published these SIDs in SB section. Maybe just show all other adequate searchers some borderlines of so-called “out-of-box thinking”. 3 years ago Forrest said: “Until now I have resisted telling them to get back in the box where their thoughts are comfortable and flow more easily.” So, maybe Forrest still continue read all (even too long) emails but now he scans them (emails) for two or three key words, which he says, “has happened three times. Three people have said key words. I never heard from them again! But they haven’t found the treasure.” (January 2018)
      2-3 key words that Forrest are waiting from searchers… What they are? He already knows that many searchers solved WWWH and CD clues. Most likely he is waiting for next clue i.e. hoB. Maybe these 3 said these key words about hoB but never even search around? We never know. So, I never send Forrest any emails about my search and if I ever send any it will be very short: “which address I should send a parcel with silver turquoise bracelet “.

  15. I put a link up to my photos from Fennboree on the top of the 2019 Fennboree Planning page…
    It can be found here:

    Please excuse the question marks in some photo captions. I will replace them with actual names when my memory kicks in or someone reminds me…apologies to the folks whose names I let slip…Please don’t be offended. If I wasn’t wearing a name tag I wouldn’t know my own name…

    • Thanks for sharing these, dal. It looks like everyone had a good time.
      And wow, that cake that Patricia made looks downright incredible! Awesome work! 🙂

  16. Sure looks like a good time was had by all. Sorry that I could not make it. There are a lot of names that I would like to put faces to – Maybe next year. YEA for all who attended – JDA

  17. LOL – my post was disabled for some reason, you think that means anything?

    All I said (in ref to email #22) was that maybe the way to help someone is to give them space and assurance and to be there in case they should fall. All of us need to stand on our own two feet and sometimes we have to learn how to do it over again. Great things can be accomplished with effort, perseverance, and alot of Faith.

    Rambling and Roving as always in search off….


  18. Heading north from Fennboree. I will be in Gallatin County, MT this evening for a couple days..I will be searching in my familiar place with new ideas. Looking forward to being there and tromping around that scenic wonderland. If anyone else is out there this evening or Wednesday and wants to meet up for a root beer…email me.

  19. Travel channel is running Expedition Unknown=Finding Fenns Fortune at 7:00 pm eastern time today. It’s always a sweet way to spend an hour.

  20. BOTG

    I am interested to know if people are willing to share the number of times they did a BOTG.

    I’ll start: 2 (yes, I am a relative newbie to TTOTC). Both in 2018. One planned for 2019.

    • Kurt,

      On the right side of each page near the top look under Other Seacher’s Stories.

      There is a new post related to botg, The Poem Married to a Map, by the way mine.
      I know a shameful plug!

    • Days? trips? Different areas?
      I could search a few different areas in a day or maybe just one.
      I could do many BOTG on a week long trip.
      I think others have tried to get this info before and really doesn’t help in finding the chest.
      I would bet Fenn has the most accurate info although there are many that don’t share with him or anyone.

      It’s good to get a few under your belt kurt.

      • Thanks Jake. I am more curious about how active the people on Dal’s forum are than getting tips/hints.

        I am hoping not to have too many more BOTG’s but so is everyone else. 😉

        • It’s a valid non biased question where the answers do not help anyone and I am curious myself but the devil is in the details.
          I guess it matters what your definition of BOTG is?
          I know of some areas I hiked but it morphed to different areas many times that I had not planned on searching so would you count each branching off as a new and different BOTG?

          • Jake, I think it’s difficult to clearly define BOTG. Because I live so far from the Rockies I consider a BOTG as a single trip with as many searches as I can fit in.

            Others may consider a BOTG as each potential search area, even in the same day.

          • OK, if trips = BOTG
            7 for me from the Treasure Coast.
            Vacations are frowned upon here in the not so sunshine state even though you have time built up. 🙁

            Actual BOTG I never kept track of but I would say at least 35 seeing I would like to make the most coming from far away.

    • Kurt,

      I’ve been following the chase for over 5 years. I’ve had 3 BOTG trips.

      The first one was 2 years ago and I went alone. I still work on the same solution but that first trip, i didn’t do enough research and went the wrong way.

      Last year I made 2 trips, once with my wife and the second one I did by myself. I drove all the way from Ohio but was hampered by bad weather and didn’t have much time to search.

      I would like to search this year but I’m not certain I’ll make the trip. Time will tell.


    • I guess the bottom line is, quantity doesn’t help and quality has gotten a few within 200′ seeing they were early on searchers they probably didn’t search many times as some have now but Fenn probably wouldn’t elaborate if some have been closer in a clear statement if they were closer or at the same 200′ mark after 2013 statement.

    • I’m at 16 trips. Each trip is usually three days.

      The interesting part is that my starting point never changed. I just keep going further. That was always part of my strategy, too. Eventually I’ll hit the Pacific Ocean, like Lewis & Clark.

    • Three total, one in August, September and October of 2018, each one day in duration, fly in to airport, search following day, fly out same day. Solved all the way to blaze in July before first BOTG after just one hour of analyzing poem. The final part is no easy task even after cracking the code (key word) before October trip. I have not read any FF books, just the poem and where those words lead me to research online, but what some people have said is in the FF books confirms what I figured out on my own by online research. My wife’s father is named Forrest and I think they are kindred spirits, helps me to correctly interpret FF’s manner of communicating. My problem is limited time and resources, so I have to look for cheap fares when I have occasional break in the action. My motivation is to rescue certain souls in dire need. I’ll be back.

    • Kurt,
      6 BOTG’s. Working on #7 within a month if nothing pops up to prevent me from going. Not easy coming from North Carolina but worth every penny spent. Been at the Chase since 2010.

    • I’ve made 4 trips.
      2 to one area with 2 different WWH candidates.
      2 to another area with 2 different WWH candidates.
      In total though, I have explored 10 ‘X’s on the map.
      In all cases, the additional candidate ‘x’s have been further on from the last, which from what others have said, sounds popular: All good solutions up to that search area, so we ask, ‘what did I miss?’ and re-apply what we learn.
      And in the spirit, I have another trip planned for August where I will again explore further on from my last foray.

    • Hi Kurt: I’m starting to lose count, but it’s either 7 or 8 trips to the same area over 3+ years, all using the same WWWH and canyon down. No other WWWH will be considered.

    • I did two in 2015, two in 2016, one in 2017, and one in 2018. For 2019, I have
      at least one planned; perhaps two or three.

  21. Be prepared for new people on the blog. I flipped on the TV and the Forrest Fenn episode of Expeditions Unknown is airing. I’ve seen it before but it was fun to recap, especially for us Ohio Buckeyes that can’t get to the Rocky’s as often as we like!

    I’ll say this, I keyed in on the Fenn interview a little closer than the rest of the program and he said something to the effect of, ‘I’d visited the location a few times.'(paraphrased). I don’t know why that stuck out to me but he didn’t say he’d been there many times.

    Oh well, to all the new visitors to the blog today… welcome!


  22. All,
    With respect to the comment above, that it is odd that TC has not yet been found…
    IMO, the searcher, or group of searchers, who find TC:

    [will be] “in tight focus with a word that is key”
    [will] “use logic to determine an important clue to the location of the treasure”
    “will be positive in their attitude and deliberate in their actions”
    [will analyze] “one important possibility related to the winning solve”
    [read the] “poem like you were going to put an X on a map”
    “notice what was beside” [them]
    “adjust” the “challenging” “blueprint”
    “make all the lines cross in the right spot”
    [map] “the geographic location of each clue”
    “start with the first clue, and let it take you to the blaze”
    “know where the edge is”
    “knowingly go to within several steps of the treasure chest”
    [and realize that] “If you are in the right spot something you probably haven’t thought about should be obvious to you”

    And, note these additional comments from F:
    “it would be difficult to find but not impossible” (2010)
    “The fact that nobody has found it, I’m frankly surprised.” (18 May 2017)
    [in emails] “three people have said key words…But they haven’t found the treasure.” (1 Nov 2018)


    “Have flashlight, will travel”
    Safe searching, everyone!

    • Now what was #1 again – I forgot? 🙂 Just joking. Nice job of putting into a few words that which we all know, but sometimes forget – Thanks for the post – JDA

    • It’s nice that you repeat what fenn as stated, But, in your opinion, what do you do with all that info?

      Geoff ~ [map] “the geographic location of each clue”

      I’d like to highly the answer a bit…

      “I don’t know how Toponymy can help you at all Chris (I had to look that word up). But if you knew the geographic location of each clue it would be a map to the treasure. f”

      Again If we read “location” of each clue, and add; Marry the ‘clues’ to ‘A place’ on a map…
      We tend to start seeing a pattern.
      While “each clues” is mentioned, and a singular location is implied.
      Why? Because in the second comment it implies ‘A Place’ on a map, to marry the clues to.

      What I don’t see is, more than one map needed. [GE included, as a single mapping tool]
      I don’t see “LocationS” of each clue [ although it can read as more than one clue having a location differ from other clues, so why not say ‘ the locations of each clue’?
      Yet in the overall aspect of those two comments… it seems… “A Place” is where ALL the clue can be found.

      While these two comments alone don’t produce a firm, positive idea. We can surmise, don’t go where an 80 yr old can’t to be considered a smaller area, [ then lets say 10 miles one way. ] fenn followed his clues and went to the hide – twice. Walked less than a few miles and was done in one afternoon.

      But before you buy.. let me sweeten the offer… I’ll throw in;
      ~ I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the **location** beforehand, but sure for the one who did.

      We can read “location” being the chest, I guess… or the blaze as well.
      Or even WWsH, but is WWsH the whole idea of the ‘Path’?
      [ I lean towards a path as; a procedure adopted to deal with a situation.][which also deals with NPFTM]
      Or we can read this as; the “location” of where the clues are at.
      That seems to fall in lines with; A Place on a map [GE], and “Location” of each clue.

      We also have [ which you pointed out as well Geoff ];
      “start with the first clue, and let it take you to the blaze”

      If all the first clue does is get us to that clue, how does that clue truly “take you to the blaze” ?
      LOL we have 8 more clues, right? We have folks at the first clue and they seem to just leave this clue to search for later clues… ‘left the poem idea’ Might it be that this all unfolds right at WWsH… the one clue fenn says we need or we have nothing, don’t go….

      What is it about this first clue that is a must have or don’t go [ searching ].?

      Geoff, I throw this idea of mine out once more and use something you said to point it out; You said;
      [will be] “in tight focus with a word that is key”

      I kinda like the “tight focus” part of this ATF. I think the poem is partly deciphered as; “Being ‘observing where warm waters halt. Observing is one part of what fenn as repeatedly told us we should do; Think, Analyze, a logical mind, plan, observe, and use of imagination. One other point fenn implied as well is; The blueprint is challenging so the treasure may be located by the one who can best adjust.

      A blueprint is something we build from. It’s instructions more than directions. So why are we needing to learn WWsH?

      The other point you stated; [will] “use logic to determine an important clue to the location of the treasure”
      LOL, I’m gonna hang my hat on the idea of “take it in” as reference to the word “IT” as “observation” of / from A Place on a map… certainty of that location beforehand… deliberate in action.. let the first clue “take you to the blaze” All done at the geographical location of each of the clues.. at the clue fenn tells us we need to nail down or we have nothing.

      Just food for thought…

  23. Thanks for this list of quotes from Forrest, Geoff. I have them all in my files but separately, so I’ll just copy it and save in my files.
    Not completely agree with your statement “that it is odd that TC has not yet been found”. Forrest was created this coded poem during 15 years so maybe searchers need at least 15 years to crack all coded clues inside of poem. Maybe 2025 will be the year of TC discovery (IMO).
    This chase is similar to crowdsourcing approach but the difference is that majority of searchers never reveal their solutions and BOTG areas. Some of them send their solutions to Forrest but we know that he will never answer (doesn’t matter correct or wrong was their solutions). Sometimes some searchers share their solutions on this website but most likely that other searchers don’t believe in their solutions. It’s human nature – we believe in our ideas/solutions but reject solutions of others (simply because their solutions contradict our solutions). We are all sure that we know key words and when hear key words from other searchers we are usually very skeptical. This situation will never change but we know from lottery statistics that millions independent attempts will result in one winning jackpot ticket. The chase is similar to lottery in terms of that each searcher draw coordinates of possible TC location independently from other searchers. Rockies area in Forrest map is very big so there are millions possible locations for TC.

  24. Thanks to everyone who responded with BOTG numbers. I too, as others, am fixated on a certain area where I think WWWH and want to exhaust that lead before moving on to another type of solution. My first BOTG in July 2018 was way off in retrospect because I didn’t do much research into Fenn quotes. There are so many beautiful places to explore and adventures to be had. I am looking forward to September in the Rockies.

    Keep up the search everyone!

  25. I just stopped in at Baker’s Hole…fascinating coincidence…
    The camp host at Baker’s Hole Campground in West Yellowstone is a guy named Larry…
    and believe it or not he’s from Temple and had Marvin as a math teacher in Jr. High about 1960…

    I have not found out yet if he is a searcher…but doesn’t seem to be…
    He seems too squared away to be chasing Indulgence… 🙂

        • Or perhaps jennook if one were feeling a bit sombre hued. Like after a stone cold romance, bear right and know the true value of a Sacajewea impression, for she is a real head turner towards the end…or could that be another beginning.

    • Dal – Thank you! We met Larry, and wondered aloud after, if he might be watching the treasure location for Forrest. But then we remembered Forrest’s “secret” quote that is similar to Benjamin Franklin’s. I have always thought Marvin Fenn was the other person keeping Forrest’s “secret”.

      What’s the ‘water high’ and ‘heavy loads’ situation ‘current-ly’ there, on the Madison River?

      Awesome. Big Smile!

    • This is pretty co-inky-dental. I am surprised that Marvin was a math teacher in that time frame. Don’t know all the history, but would have thought he might be principal. Unless he bounced back and forth between teaching and principal.

        • I had to chuckle…
          Marvin Fenn’s story took up the same mount of space as the “Senators” story… maybe even a bit more.

          LOL, Field and Stream vs. Legislation, wins every time.

          • Seeker – Lol!

            Now I am imagining Marvin Fenn, up on a cloud, watching Forrest burning things to make pine tar and pine pitch, ‘at both ends’ of my Ponder•O•S•A pine tree at my ‘hide-y’ spot:


            I still believe Forrest spent the last night of his three day ‘walk’ down the Madison River, as described in the preface of TFTW, providing a means to prevent the ground water and snow melt from damaging the bronze chest and its contents.

            All IMo.

            No Wee Gee Board Mouse Pad or Magic Eight Ball required. Just a logical solution.

            I miss Goofy.

        • Hello yellow dog and Lisa ,

          Thanks for posting the article about Marvin Sr’s stellar fishing abilities. He was skillful with all rods. (I’ll bet Forrest or Skippy severed a few spanking rods).

          If I were guessing at favorite New Mexico fishing spots…given the criteria of being similar to Marvin sr’s favorite Montana locations…
          Eagles nest lake is similar to Hebgen Lake; or how about the Pecos & Cimarron River canyons?

          Has anyone considered Eric Sloane and Forrest “May have” participated in the preservation of the Cassidy family’s Molina/flour mill in Mora? It makes a nice home of brown.

          • 42 – You’re baack! I have missed you terribly. Have you been BOTG in Montana lately?

            Love, Lisa (formerly aka E Star)

            p.s. Love the idea about the Eric Sloane connection.

      • He said he skipped school a lot…particularly morning classes…apologized later…but he worked when he was in school…big family…no money…

        • back in my time a lot people skipped school to work in the fields to help the family – people from other places would come using words that people really didn’t know the meaning so they made up one – and people thought that was it meant and they used it as that- ff was one of them and I was one people talked different because of that for more the 50 years I thought meek meant small- I see words that he uses that he used back then that’s why some clues are hard to figure out so good luck

          • You are so right. In Illinois we believed meek meant small too. Also fragile.

  26. Quick question…
    I’ve heard around for some time now that a comment of; ‘Forrest father would know the location’
    Can anyone point me in the right direction, if fenn stated this, or was it a searchers comment gone wild or reporter or such?

    Thanks in advance for any info.

  27. All,
    Jake Faulkner suggests that “it’s odd no one has found the treasure yet.”
    Forrest says that he’s “frankly surprised” that nobody has found it.
    But, Andy S notes that there are “millions’ [of] “possible locations” for TC.
    Seeker observes, “We tend to start seeing a pattern.”
    (IMO…Perhaps that is what a blind searcher cannot do?)
    My question is: What stopped those three searchers who “said key words” from finding TC?
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

    • Geoff, maybe those three searchers who said key words in emails never realized that those words were correct key words. Most likely that Forrest scans all emails for name of place that he coded in poem as home of Brown (IMO). Many searchers have ideas what is hoB and many of them send those ideas to Forrest. They never get any answers from Forrest. Of course, if they know that their ideas are correct they will found TC during days (maybe weeks). But since they didn’t knew it they just did quick BOTG in this area and as Forrest said “their arrival was an aberration and they were oblivious to its connection with the poem.” They just didn’t recognized other clues in this place and concluded that their “key words” were wrong. They never know that they were within 200-500 feet from TC. Also the blaze might be very small object (visible only from 12 distance) so the probability of finding by searcher who walking chaotically (without any trails) in some wild area becomes very low. IMO, but when TC will be finally discovered and it’s location will be revealed many searchers will realize that they have visited this area and were within 500 feet or even closer.

        • I’ve emailed a few solutions to FF because I needed to share them with someone new. Sort of like when a song is going through your head, by sharing it, you can pass on the mind worm. So sharing my solution helps to relieve the excitement of a new idea that has yet to be field tested, particularly in the middle of winter.
          I do hope that his encouragement to those who have submitted key words apply to me!! : ) I have not completed my search of the area described in my last email to him where I have given the location of WWH, HOB, Blaze. At this point it is the Blaze location that I have been iterating on with all else the same.

      • Andy S. – Great observations! Maybe those three words Forrest scans emails for are these?:

        Baker’S Hole Campground

        The rest of your excellent analysis fits my solve. What ‘stopped’ them? Crossing the “tributaries” the Grizzes used to cross, to get to the garbage dump, where the KWYS airstrip was later built? Or, crossing the Madison River, wearing wading boots, or using a ‘brave and in the wood’ canoe, which I may now have access to. If I can convince a friend to put it on top of his Jeep to head to West Yellowstone.

        All IMO.

  28. My ghostwriter Sumyung Guy wasn’t available today… so I consulted my Magic eight ball.
    It said; Don’t take advice from a toy.

  29. Met up with two teams of searchers last night at the Happy Hour Bar on Hebgen Lake. Interesting…They both had searched their area with no luck. One team took the position that they needed to regroup and rethink. The other team took the position that they were certainly using the correct solution which led them to a man-made tank of some sort where the treasure should be…but they couldn’t get in it…
    What do you think?
    I know what I think…

    Wednesday is crab night at the Happy Hour. Crab was GREAT….and while West Yellowstone was CRAMMED with people standing in lines to get inside every joint` for a meal, the Happy Hour had plenty of seats…no waiting. We sat outside on the patio and looked at the lake ate delicious crab legs and talked Fenn…NICE!

    I am in no way connected with or received compensation from the Happy Hour or any of it’s staff for the above comment. 🙂

  30. I am headed into the park today. I have a rinky-dink solution to try. It can’t possibly be THE solution but it sounds like a nice walk and who knows what I might find along the way…
    Enjoying life and a walk in the park..

    • I hope it’s not the pay part of the park. Bring a clicker counter with you, I’m curious as to how many vehicles you count while heading to your parking spot.

      • Jake-
        I am well past the age where I have to PAY to get into a national park. I believe 62 is the age you can apply for a senior pass and never have to pay again…Those passes have a one-time fee associated with them. When I got mine that fee was $5. I believe it’s much more now…anyway…I get into all National Parks and Monuments for free…and half off on campsites..including compsites in national parks and national forest’s.

    • Dal – RU walking along the Downriver Riverside Trail, to see if you can find that cave where the Fenn Family stowed their stuff over the Winter, before they built the Fenn Haven Cabins?

      That would be the FREE way to get into YNP, Jake. Unless you spend $50.00 to buy bear spray, which I would. We saw pics of several mating Grizz pairs, who had been in the vicinity of Barns Holes #1-#5, on the evening previous to our evening picnic next to Barns Hole #1 on Memorial Day Weekend.

      I hope you are enjoying your walk, Dal!

      • Lisa…what cave? I don’t think there was a cave…just a place in the trees where they parked the trailer…It would still be easy to hide a trailer in the thin pine forest along the road to the Barns Hole. But now that area gets more use from cross country skiers and snowshoers in the winter so it might not go unnoticed…
        I’ve seen a photo of their trailer left for the winter and no cave was involved. What makes you say there was a cave…?
        No…I don’t know of any cave out there nor have I looked…That area has been in use by visitors and residents for a hundred years…if there was a cave there would be a trail right up to it and probably a concession stand selling hot dogs and t-shirts out in front of it.

        • Dal – Oh. I didn’t know you saw a pic of the Fenn family trailer, left over the Winter.

          I couldn’t imagine how all their gear they used to camp out with the other teachers would make it through the often long and deep Yellowstone Winter without doing a Fenn Cache thing in a nearby cave. I was imagining finding one like this Otter Creek cave in YNP:


          Wish I had that old Fenn trailer. I would make a bar out of it, where my librarian friend could also sell her hand tied flies to fishermen to match the hatch.

          • There are plenty of cAves in YNP but none in West Yellowstone…no geology formations that would suggest a cave…It’s all moraine in that area. A pretty flat bowl with the Madison and it’s tributaries cutting through…Over by Hebgen lake there are plenty of cave formations…on both sides of the lake…but not right around West Yellowstone along the riverside…

    • By the way…no treasure chest…but I did find a blaze…however the blaze was man-made and not worth the orange paint applied to it as far as the search goes..in my opinion…

  31. During a week that included Fennboree, the unquestionably most enlightening revelation regarding the Chase….is that pdenver appears to have first hand knowledge of the ‘art’ that graces the walls of both gender’s facilities at the Happy Hour on Hebgen. Livin’ on the wild side there, you crazy lady.

  32. Hi everyone ,

    found 2 different connections to F thumb on philly , been debating if I should divulge one or two or none.
    but thought I’d put this one out for thought.
    Philly is a very important place for bells , The liberty bell is one , we all know F makes bells , the inscriptions on the bell is intresting , the original bell they spelled Pensylvania with one n..not with 2..just intresting how F. spelled knoledge, without the w, on one of his bells.
    there is a biblical inscription on the bell also. ..dont know how much connection to the chase this helps..maybe more research can turn up something..

    • eaglesabound,

      I am aware , but to go back and correct something that has little to do with the actual point of meaning , is wasteful time.


    • hi Clint

      he does have a YouTube video that he explains on why he left it out. I used the missing letters as an example that there may be other correlations that potentially can be discovered from the philly thumb to the bells.


  33. p.s.
    did you know pass and stow the men who recreated the liberty bell owned a foundry called whitechapel.
    f said his church is in the mountains.

    • Maybe there is a correlation MWG. “nd” is short for “need”. Maybe we “need” to find the bell. Or maybe the “church”. Wouldn’t surprise me if one or both of those thoughts come into play somewhere. The thought of a “bell” somewhere within the chase is a good one. It is his “secret” plan, (pg.137), and the poem does say, “I can keep my secret where”. 1000 years down the road, how else would a searcher let f know?:)

      • I don’t figure anybody is going to let FF know anything a thousand years
        from now. That’s my opinion, and I’m stickin’ to it. All IMO.

    • JPE,

      That might be a good idea… but I think [don’t quote me on this] some, if not the majority, of the bells were buried before the thought of challenge. For that idea to plan out… I’d need to look up when fenn may have stated he started burying bells… I’m pretty sure he did state something about it at one time.

      • He actually started to bury bells with jars in New Mexico. He planned to bury 28 in all, (like spokes on a medicine wheel). I have the info at work, but what I remember was that he buried 8 first in New Mexico, had a plan to bury 28, then buried another 8. Don’t quote me on that, but I remember a few ATF’s saying that. Also remember him saying he didn’t get to bury all like he wanted, I would need to look at notes at work.

        • Remember he did say that some romantic Historian might find in the year 12016. (Why did he use that year?, why not just 12000, or 12015?) in a whisper, that answer will answer a lot of ATF’s.

          • Any chance the 1 was a typo or on purpose and it should have read 2016? Or was he really going for 10,000 years from now = to elevation. Hmmmm

    • JPE ,
      IMO that’s not actually not true , in the youtube video he has stated the purpose of miss spelling knowledge is to show the word is meaningless then th3 use imagination. ,
      have to remember when f got started in art dealings he had no knowledge of the business so he used his imagination to become successful.
      to forest knowledge is nothing.
      if you have imagination.

      • MWG: I think Forrest has made it clear that knowledge is important. “No time spent in thought is wasted and nothing is too small to know, so one should not let knowing a little bit be a substitute for learning more.”

      • JDA. You haven’t found that thing yet. I can’t pin it down. I have a location from the poem using my Solve. I am waiting to see if I can
        get closer to it. If I can see mountains it is in the open and buried.
        hidden or placed it has that too. What will I realize standing there.
        Its not there and use my intuition again. Taking views and seeing something. I must be missing a ATF comment somewhere.
        Don’t want to spend a week searching the location I guess that’s the working for it comment. high lite the 2 books write a solve hand it to
        a searching family and let them have at it. I want that gold myself too.
        nine clues five confirmations and a location. And can’t pin it down enough to take my walk of shame. I just can’t go right to the chest.
        O the walk of shame. But I could say I searched for the Forrest Fenn
        Treasure and had a great time. Or I am just wrong.
        Go get that Thing. Someone….

  34. I’d like to think Ledge or Edge has to do with it mostly because it works with my solve but to take the D out? for Ege or Lege…. The definitions aren’t horrible I guess. Just like he got D’s in school. almost failing, yet still passing. He is bringing attention to the letter D. Though Knowledge is apart of learning & grades for school. Now I’m just turning in circles… bang head on high school desk.

    • Hi jminnesota,

      Tell Radio Shack hello. Hope you are doing well. Talk about writing in “code”…..

      Covert One

      • Covert One
        …. .. -.-. — …- .!
        We are actually heading back out to WY within the month on a good enough lead. Stay cool and next time you hide under a table all stealth like… make sure it’s because you drank us under!

  35. Has anyone thought about the mathematical equation …f traveled from TX to YS at x mph for x hours a day taking x days to get there? Then, concentrating on the overnight stops, as a possible place f loved to visit. Being cramped in a hot car, no a/c, stopping for the night, running around and exploring the area…? I did it as a kid! Maybe one of the over night stops is patiently guarding Indulgence.
    The route does include ALL four states. Just an idea I thought I’d throw out there!

    • Yes they have – google “fenn travel temple tx to yellowstone” – shows relevant comments from Reddit, Chasechat, Dalneitzel, etc. People have looked at the routes that the Fenns would have travelled as thay existed in the 1930s. An excellent idea that needs revisiting. Example: was the 1-room schoolhouse which was 50 miles out of their way in Lander, Wyoming ? I am sure that one of the regulars here has a list of probable stops on the trip, one of which was the Cody Museum.

      • Another spot, just a bit South was where some of the first Clovis points were discovered. I think it was Eden, WY.

        • Zap – considering the number of inscriptions mentioned in the book, does your theory take locations of inscriptions into account? The Thrill of the Chase does have the word “inscription” in its name, so to speak.

        • Hi E.C. Waters: I don’t like to get too many levels removed from the original material, which taken to its extreme becomes the “six degrees of separation” multi-dimensional Pachinko machine. In this particular instance, the Horace Mann quote probably can’t be found in a lot of places in the Rockies, so the location ~might~ be relevant. But if that quote also happened to be found in, say, New Hampshire, I wouldn’t take New Hampshire to be a hint.

          • Hmm. It seems like maybe I’ve created an image that says anything I post is too complex. Maybe it is. But if it’s not, all the better.

            My sense is that the title of the book is relevant in multiple definitions, because it seems to me that Forrest is clever and subtle like this.

          • Also, I’d be super curious about how this quote is truly attributed to Horace Mann, other than via pinterest. I’ve seen the inscription in UNC. Have you sources that are maybe closer to Mr. Mann’s time?

          • Hi E.C.: I can find just as much evidence (i.e. very little) that the quote is from superintendent Oliver Howard.

          • I don’t know either how (or by whom) it came to be attributed to Horace Mann.

            There IS a Horace Mann Gate (financed by the class of 1910) on the UNC campus in Greeley CO, but the inscription on it is simply “ROWING NOT DRIFTING”.

          • Zap – based on your allusions, I’d guess you’ve been analyzing a book cipher approach, perhaps using Catcher in the Rye as your key, if in the wood means in the grain.

            But if you are approaching like this, why not consider that people’s names as inscriptions on rocks could be used with their indexed year they were there as the number? There certainly are a large number of opportunities to be thrilled by chases in this way, and would seem to require some botg work across WY.

            It seems to me that pi in a reflection as 41.3 (pie in a mirror) would be a clever latitude to use, given he speaks of mirrors and pies.

          • He did say he’s looking at 100 years, a 1000 years down the road. There are 1000s of inscriptions chased on stones that have colors other than yellow all over WY. It seems to me we should be collecting these strings.

          • Hi E.C.: “based on your allusions, I’d guess you’ve been analyzing a book cipher approach, perhaps using Catcher in the Rye as your key, if in the wood means in the grain.”

            No, nothing that complicated. Mostly poem, map, logic and simple steganography methods (similar to those that have been used on past armchair treasure hunts). It is an amusing exercise to try to discover Forrest’s hints in the books and other communications, but ultimately a distraction from the problem.

            Forrest’s aberrations gnaw at me, but in most cases the “what” doesn’t lead to an unambiguous explanation for “why.” For instance, why does he misspell some people’s names (e.g. Richard Wetherell, Orson Wells and Charles Lindberg) but not others? An additional clue is that the misspellings don’t alter the pronunciation. I have a pretty solid answer for Orson Welles, but the other two elude me (other than the commonality of the “ell” in Wetherell’s case). Ell’s, Ella’s, L’s and 50’s (Roman L) abound in Forrest’s writings, for which I have a satisfactory explanation, so that may be all there is to the Wetherell misspelling.

            You mentioned pi (and of course we have many instances of Forrest bringing up pies). Pineapple pie (pi pi = two pi?) is a funny choice. Even more so in conjunction with the multiple mentions of Brad Pitt. As someone here, I think?, noted (though maybe it was MW or THOR): PI TT is a pictogram of Pi Pi. So two pi again.

          • Richard Wetherill’s name is actually spelled ‘Wetherell’ on his grave marker in Chaco Canyon.

            You may already know, Zap, that Wetherill was killed in Chaco Canyon on 22 June 1910, a hundred years before ff’s treasure may have been hidden.

          • Hi JAK: almost exactly 100 years if my theory is right. 😉 Didn’t know his name was spelled wrong on his Chaco Canyon grave marker. Curious.

  36. I’m late to this as I haven’t been following along as closely (keeping up with all the comments can get onerous), but regarding the kerfluffle with Jake towards the beginning of this post:

    Having an opinion on what a wrong solution looks like is unrelated to having the right solution or even the right type of solution.

    IMO, there are way too many posts where people free-associate something from the book and try to then make that be a legit interpretation of a clue. Even worse is where there’s multiple steps between book and clue. I think Jake was relatively restrained in offering his opinion on the interpretation that was put forth. I tend to shake my head in disbelief and stay silent.

    Okay, hopefully I’m not kicking up drama. Just my two cents.

  37. The Cody Museum did not exist when f was a child. He is actually a member of the board of directors.
    I found the schoolhouse, it’s in Colorado.
    Eden, Wy is in the middle of an almost desert like area, and not worth searching, except for relics. I guess y’all missed my meaning, but thank you for your comments! 🙂

    • Hi Donna M.: if you’ve found that schoolhouse, then congratulations are in order because as far as I know you would be the first! But does it have the Horace Mann inscription above the door? That would be the clincher. If it doesn’t, you must have some other means of determining that you’ve got the right place (e.g. 50-mile distance out of the way).

      Personally I think the story about driving so far out of their way — *every* time they went to Yellowstone! — is a clear sign that this story has been significantly stretched from reality. And that being the case, there is probably a hint here to be deciphered. It has not escaped my notice (or perhaps the notice of others) that four of those eleven words begin with the letters WWWH: Who, With, Workshop, and He or His

      Amusingly, the remaining 7 initial letters can spell “a glitch”.

    • Donna—

      You are the first person I have seen mention Eden. I am curious as to how you came to mention this area? I ask because I was centered in that area for some time. There is something I feel is very important right smack in the middle of that area. lol. Please share your thoughts—I would be extremely interested to hear them. Quack quack quack.

    • No, there was no “Cody Museum”, but there was a “Buffalo Bill Museum” in Cody from 1927. From CenteroftheWest.org:
      “I was first in the Center [then just the Buffalo Bill Museum] when I was one year old. That was 1931, and my parents always stopped in on our way to Yellowstone. It was a summer pilgrimage for our family and the museum has always been a part of me. ” -quote from Forrest Fenn

  38. IMO,

    There are things that jumps out to me is some folks will shoot down a theory for the heck of it. Then there are some folks that are so hung up on their theory they won’t accept any other idea. Then there are some folks will agree with anything that is posted in different threads.
    Then there are folks that completely relate every thing to FF’s books, scrapbooks and all comments as a reasoning they all have hints and clues within. Some are helpful others not so much, the hints are within the stories (the text) of TTOTC (I’ve read over and over) and possibly TFTW, which I haven’t read. I’ve read OUAW

    My point being, If someone posts the correct answer to each of the 8 clues, folks would automatically toss it to the side. Forrest is telling us to hurry up and retrieve the chest, (the gist), he may very well know that some folks are very close, at least I think so. Question is why would he say something like that, when it may go on for years?

    It doesn’t hurt searchers to take a closer look at and analyze what others have posted theories, who knows there might be something in those theories might be of value. I’m not speaking of myself, but when others do post the theories are set aside quickly, two to maybe a week and it’s done.

    Its not easy at all to set biases aside, maybe those biases are getting in the way. I do set my biases aside, it is something that is important to do otherwise there is merely conjecture without any basis for reasoning. IMO

    Don’t get me wrong that I am telling folks how to do things, it merely is a suggestion and food for thought.

    Just Say’n

    • Pot calls the kettle black.

      Begin it where warm waters halt, kind of, but not really, and then go up a hill and down a “random” canyon on the other side of the continental divide. Use various ATF’s and then say “no ATF’s allowed” when they contradict.

      Nobody is shooting down a theory “for the heck of it”. I spent a lot of time following what you posted and decided, IMO, for very good reasons, IMO, that it was not a solve that made sense to me. I liked that I learned where the headwaters were, and used that idea elsewhere (bowers spring) , but that concept is not really a solid wwwh. And the million dollar highway is cool. But, that area is just not “fenny” (as SallyColorado said).

      You need to not take others criticism so personally, and then so easily invalidate their conclusions as “for the heck of it”. They don’t like your solve —- so what — it’s their loss. You don’t hear my criticisms, — so what —, that’s your loss.

      I like that you are willing to put your well thought out ideas out there, but I am disappointed that you could not take the (IMO) justifiable criticism. But, hey, who am I ….

      • meBigGuy,

        You completely missed the point, this had nothing to do with me and I said so. It was an overall view and you rush to judgement.

        I expected criticism and knew it was going to happen with my theory. Some how you think that I was upset that folks didn’t debate more.

        I’m glad that it sparked some ideas for you.

        • I lost count of the “I’s” and “I’ve” but you only have one “IMO”.
          So, I would say it’s about …..
          We are all biased to some degree or another and the harder anyone tries to explain the opposite, the more they are biased.
          Think about it.

  39. Hello Everyone! First time poster, long time reader :). I’d love thoughts on: “There isn’t a human trail in close proximity to where I hid the treasure” (This quote may not be exact, but I know I’ve read it in several places.)
    My thought is that there has to be at least some trail near by for Mr. Fenn to be able to walk in twice in one afternoon. Is it an animal trail, logging trail, etc? If he walked off trail, how far could he go carrying 20 or so pounds? (These are the questions that bounce around in my head).
    Thank you in advance for any ideas.

    • Jend—Of course. That’s because it’s an alien trail not a human trail. Only THEY know where the darn thing is hidden. That’s why we’re storming AREA 51 soon. We want answers, and the aliens have them.

    • Hi Jen,

      I think a logging trail would be considered human-made. But an animal trail could be a good way for an 80-year-old man to travel with a fairly heavy load. FF has said that people have been as close as 500 feet away from the TC. My guess is that the TC is off-trail by 500 feet. Later, he said that people had been as close as 200 feet away. Maybe a person went off-trail and followed an animal trail for 300 feet but walked right by the blaze/TC. He also mentions “brave the cold” later in the poem. So maybe you follow a stream/creek after leaving the trail…?

          • I am! 🙂 After nine years, I’m getting out of the armchair. I’ve convinced my husband that this is a good way to celebrate out 25th wedding anniversary. He drew the line at bringing a metal detector.

      • Mick, “brave the cold” is not in the poem. It appears that you have
        rearranged some of the poem’s words, almost like anagramming — which I don’t think will help solve the poem successfully for anyone.

        I did, however, enjoy the early compilation album Big Hits (High Tide and Green Grass). As always, all part of MY opinion, not Frank Sinatra’s.

        • Tall Andrew,

          Maybe I took too many liberties with FF’s poem…

          “Your effort will be worth the cold
          if you are brave and in the wood”

          In my experience, I’ve always had to brave the cold (water) more than brave the wood. Couldn’t it mean that the creek (and it’s cold water) is in the wood…? And that the scary thing that exists in the wood is getting into that cold water…? It’s a poem after all, filled with figurative language.

          Question: Has FF said that he believes that the treasure may be wet?

    • Jenderator,

      I wouldnt spend much time thinking about this ,
      didn’t F create a trail when he made 2 trips to hide the chest?. to me that would be a human trail.

    • Jenderator.

      LOL great handle.

      In my mind… a human trail is something deliberately made for sole purpose of humans to utilize.
      The L&C trail is an excellent example of my idea.

      I don’t consider a path stomped down by a bunch of kids, or folks just hiking in the same area, at one time or another, a human trail. It’s just worn turf. Animal trails can change seasonally.
      I also don’t think a place like the continental divide is a true trail. The land feature was there long before man, and man decided to call it a trail… but there are section that man [humans] has placed signs. markers and directions for the purpose of following… for hiking and even driving the features of the CD.
      LOL that’s a bit tricky to say one way or another.

      Logic says; if fenn completed his original plan of dying at the chest’s location… he’s not going to be near any trial that his remains could easily be discovered… meaning a designated trail for the intent of human use.
      Or even a well stomped animal trial. For example; If it’s an old animal trail; known to have uses for migrating… you can bet predators follow it.
      Human remains near said trail? LOL that’s comparable to an animal drive thru.
      Lead Wolf; I’ll have #1 ~ Mcfenn burger, side of ribs and grapette, please. What do you all want for lunch, before we ketchup up with our dinner?

  40. In my opinion, from the tone set on all the blogs – and y’all may holler at me for saying this but – I think, NO BODY has any idea where to begin.

    Just croaking from my lily pad and keeping an eye out for those dang ducks…….

    • Wouldn’t you like to be a weiner too? Regarding naysayers and negativity; I depend on other people to shoot holes in my theory. A solve is incomplete if there are unanswered questions. What about this, or what if that? Of course it’s easier to take from someone you know face to face. Interesting social dynamic here with searchers in competition, yet trying to share ideas.

      • Saun,
        Outstanding perspective!
        You said what I’ve been thinking for a long time (years).
        For all of the “experts” who have commented, it is funny that not one (including myself) have found the TC. Even after almost a decade.
        We have to ask ourselves: do we want it found (no matter how) or do we just want us, as individual competitors, to find it? If it is the latter, then we will continue to beat each other up on our thoughts/solutions. If it is the former, then maybe we should collectively try by using each others solutions (teamwork).
        The former would require trust, collaboration and logistical coordination. Not sure how far we (myself included) are willing to go to ferret out the TC.
        Anyway, it seems the current methods of individual solves and BOTG’s are not working to recover the TC.
        Just my two cents.

    • Great one. Thanks for posting that.

      You can see the water is still high but I don’t know how long ago that was filmed.

      13 miles is about my limit without a pack. But it more depends on the altitude change, I think.

      • Sometimes Stan will post when the hike was but didn’t this time and I suspect it was about a week ago and yes high water and some snow drifts hanging on in mid July.
        I recommend subscribing to his channel, About a video a week in the Yellowstone area.
        Some of his hikes are over 20 miles and would say he’s over 60.
        Altitude is a big factor in all hikes.

    • do have to keep in mind , it’s where kids can go..pretty good hint , I doubt kids will hike much more then a mile. just saying.

      • MWG, in my files I have this citation: “The chest is not in a dangerous place, it’s somewhere you could take your kids.”
        Not sure that it’s a better hint than “don’t go anywhere an 80 year old man can’t go” (especially with 22-25 pounds weight on him).
        Q: “how far you walked to hide the treasure after leaving your car: was it >10miles, between 5 and 10 miles, between 1 and 5 miles, or less than 1 mile? ~Thanks, Ron
        Ron, your question sounds like a travelogue, but I’ll answer it. No, I don’t want to be that bold. But I will say that I walked less than a few miles if that will help. I just looked “few” up and one definition is “scant.” Why do I sound like I’m talking in circles? f
        As usually Forrest answered this question but it is unclear what this “less that a few miles” distance – between parking lot and final spot or the entire distance that he was walking during 4 afternoon trips.

        • Here’s a real quote from the horse’s mouth.

          “Edward, thanks for the question.
          The treasure is not hidden in a dangerous place in the normal definition of the word, realizing that there probably is no place on this planet that is safe under all conditions. Bloggers have quoted me as saying that a child could walk up to the treasure. I don’t think that’s an accurate quote because a three year old girl would have a problem without some help. Remember, I was about 80 when I hid the chest, and had to make two trips.f”

      • Hi Andy S.: not sure if it’s enough information to choose between one-way distance or two roundtrips, but we have this additional guidance:

        “In the light of recent events I feel compelled to repeat several comments. When searching please don’t get target fixation or become obsessed with your solve to the point where you ignore these fundamental guidelines. If you can’t make two trips from your car to your solve in several hours, then don’t go. Don’t search anywhere an 80-year-old man could not carry a heavy backpack.”

        I interpret that to mean that if each one-way trip will require more than an hour, then your solution is likely incorrect. (I don’t think there is a hard limit on how short the one-way travel time might be, other than if it’s too short, then there would be no need to make two trips.)

        • Zap, I completely agree with your conclusion: one-way trip should not be more than 1 hour (for young and strong searchers maybe even no more than 45 minutes).
          It is known that many people tend to walk at about 3.1 on flat surface. However, your speed on flat terrain will be considerably faster than when you encounter steep uphill or downhill sections, which may slow you to as little as 1 mph.
          Thus, if Forrest was walking trough uphill/downhill area his speed was 1 mph or even less. So, we have a distance from parking lot to the spot 1 mile or less. Of course, it is very obvious conclusion i.e. everybody knows it. Question is where this parking lot? Poem gives us very simple answer: just below of the hoB 🙂 If you know what is hoB you will easy found this parking lot, draw 1 mile circle around and find TC.

          • Hi Andy, also consider that most 80 year olds, don’t have a great sense of balance anymore, so he probably wasn’t walking in very rough terrain.

    • I’m a little surprised that I have not been asked how my stroll was. I’m sure A.S. (Amy) is wondering how my stroll was. Well, I didn’t go too far. It may have been too far to walk though. I learned so much about higher education that even I could not believe how much I learned. I could hardly catch my breadth. I sat for a bit to think about what I had just learned. It was not enough so I layed down and contemplated life’s little lesson plan for me. I made a quick life changing decision then, I felt good about myself and went back to where my son was waiting for me. I filled my empty hands with my son’s head in my grasp and kissed his forehead. Next time I go for a stroll, I’ll go better prepared. I know what would help with gaining more knowledge. OO

  41. Hi all! I haven’t been here in awhile, but just noticed something of interest to those searching in and around YNP and north of, and wanted to pass it on…. Mount Holmes Fire Lookout hit on Tuesday by a lightning strike — SW of Mammoth Hot Springs, N of Madison Junction. It burned to the ground 🙁 Had been built in 1931, renovated in 1998, staffed until 2007.

    Apologies if it’s already been mentioned. Hope all are well!

  42. If YOU were going to hide something – out in the open, under everyone’s nose but wanted it to go unnoticed – where would you hide it and how would you “disguise” it?

    Any ideas y’all?

    • the where wouldn’t matter
      but i would disguise it to be so boring so when someone walked by they would just groan and roll their eyes —
      like i’d stack a bunch of stuff on it no one wants — some puzzles, maybe a book on decluttering your home, a pair of khakis, some kimchi, etc.
      it would go undistubed for years 🙂

      • Thank you DF’d – you may be correct.
        Who reads books or works puzzles anymore?
        Kinda like those historical marker signs along the highways – do you stop and read them?

      • It could backfire, if some conscientious environmentalist(s) were to
        as some kind of “personal” purpose take on the task of cleaning up that
        stuff. I have given thought to similar cleanup in the local area of my
        search, although there wasn’t much junk there.

    • I think I would camouflage it with the background or have it near a distractor of sorts so that everyone would look at the distractions vs the chest IMO.

  43. Zap – re: “in love with MT” and not WY…

    I presuppose (in the truest form of linguistics) that you’re ignoring one or two things. But then again maybe your undisclosed first stanza basis of wwwh is the most compelling of any aha moment since brown bread and fawn colored cows, and maybe you think the way I deep-think is overly complicated. Nevertheless…

    The following disclosures have allusion references to I-80 across WY:
    – almost eighty (funny I said it that way, and the Old Oregon Trail next to and including I-80)… I mean… doesn’t this just seal the deal?
    – No? how about a really big deal (“The Gangplank”, where “deal” = “board”, “joy, smile” = “beam” and Henry B. Joy)
    – Or, if you prefer circular references, T.S. Eliot atf references (T.C. Elliott attributed for etymon of Oregon)
    – Eric Sloane (“seeing the elephant” phrase with “slon”)
    – bald like Eisenhower (bald is the etymon of bold, Eisenhower worked and is the Lincoln Highway)
    – a Rawlings Pro 5 lace-up in SB100 (Rawlins)
    – Mike Kammerer in SB83 (Kemmerer)
    – Six mentions of nickels in TTOTC (Tom Horn/Willie Nickel)
    – Macy’s penguins in Mary Mary “Mz” Contrary @ MW (Little America, “Emperor” penguin in a glass case)
    – J.C. “Penny” sheets in SB109, (Kemmerer, Lincoln Highway)
    – Bill Nye the telephone guy in SB107 (Telephone Canyon, Nye to Warren and rabbit holes)
    – Purple Heart in My War For Me (Purple Heart Trail)
    – the Ho Chi Minh Trail in My War for Me (the Snow Chi Minh Trail)

    This is just off the top of my head, and there’s still so much more! I mean, you decide to ignore if you want… but should you?

    • Hi E.C.: “I presuppose (in the truest form of linguistics) that you’re ignoring one or two things.”

      I’m sure it’s a lot more than one or two! We all perform some degree of triage when deciding what’s important and what isn’t.

      “But then again maybe your undisclosed first stanza basis of wwwh is the most compelling of any aha moment since brown bread and fawn colored cows…”

      I’d simply say compelling enough for *me* to ignore all other possibilities, and cemented by the statistical improbability of the alignment of the third clue to the WWWH geographical location.

      “… and maybe you think the way I deep-think is overly complicated.”

      Sure, but it’s just my opinion (and what do I know?), but I suppose I’m partly influenced by Forrest’s occasional mentions of “I am a very simple person.” Nevertheless, I’m still fascinated by the tangents of tangents that both you and Lisa Cesari/E* have constructed over the years and have found them quite educational!

      You name many allusory connections to I-80 (the main east-west interstate that crosses southern Wyoming), and I’m betting I could find quite a few more that you haven’t named above. But since you were once quite focused on a similarly large number of tie-ins to Seven Falls near the Broadmoor in Colorado Springs, wouldn’t you conclude that you might be unusually skilled at finding such connections? I am similarly predisposed (though perhaps not to the same degree), which I recognize as a dangerous trait when it comes to confirmation bias. A John Nash type is at a tremendous disadvantage, in my opinion, because when presented with something seemingly vague like Forrest’s poem, they will find dozens of connections with any dart throw starting point.

      • Zap – I think that to have any longevity in this puzzle, one must be able to change and adapt. Seven Falls was an interesting place for a bit. So was Yellowstone and Dot Island. I shared this thinking with others whom I thought might be able to relate to the thought process. After having been out so many times, I’ve resolved myself not to go back out unless I can decipher what is intended, and so far I cannot.

        But I am absolutely convinced of his word patterns relating to some form of a cipher because he seems like he relies on poem synonyms in so many of his responses and posts. This is why you see my processing through what looks like apophenia. It’s an attempt to relate these synonyms and allusions to a map, adapting and moving on. At the moment, I’m testing an approach of a book cipher with Catcher in the Rye as the key. If it turns out to not be worthwhile, I’ll adapt and move on.

  44. Just curious, if the chest were hidden in water, how would the elements of the water effect the color of the chest and what color would the chest be after all of the years in the water? I have read that bronze when exposed to water can turn green or black.

    • Paul-
      Forrest has stated in the Safety First post on this very blog that the chest is not under water:

      However, he also stated in the New Mexico Tourism video referenced above that he knows the chest is wet.

      When bronze oxidizes it turns bluish-green. Think all those bronze statues in city parks and around WA DC. They have turned a bluish-green from exposure to rain and air. In some spots the bronze may also turn grey or black from dirt staining mixed with the oxidation.But generally the bronze turns bluish-green.

    • wwwamericana,

      Theoretically yes, BUT, if the ball of yarn has burnt up then there’s nothing left to cut.

      Reminds me of the old saying:
      Q: Does a Bear sh*t in the woods?
      A: Not if it’s in a zoo!

      My post will probably be disabled…but it’s not the end of the world….yet!

      Ya know something, I only wrote to Forrest twice and he wrote me back on my second try! Needless to say, my first one was only 275 pages long!

      I think Forrest got tired of Andy Dufresne emailing him ONCE a week for a new library. So I think I’ll email him TWICE a week now! SHAWSHANK!!


      • ByGeorge – I have Faith that he will answer, sometimes it is not in the way we expect it , but he will. Just keep writing those letters and singing those songs and sure as the moon rises, you’ll have yourself a nice library. (Maybe shorten them a bit as I’m sure Mr. Fenn tires easily these days.)

        As for your post – I’m sure it will stand as a testament of perseverance.

        Not sure how to respond about your yarn burning up – Yarns are very flamable. Perhaps we should switch to sinew?

  45. Good morning everyone!

    I am hoping someone can help me out. I seem to remember a scrapbook with a photo of something carved in a tree by Forrest. I may be wrong but that’s what I think I remember. Does anyone know or remember what scrapbook that was?

    Thanks in advance!


    • TimW-
      There is a list with short descriptions of the scrapbooks on the index page for Forrest’s Scrapbooks..
      If you open that list you can read quickly a short synopsis of each scrapbook which is a good way to search what you are looking for..
      I believe I saw a description for the scrapbook you are looking for on that list..

      • Hey Dal – I clicked on Forrest’s Scrapbooks and saw the header for the index page but it didn’t allow me to click on it. What am I missing?

        • Spoon-
          Look at the second paragraph from the top…
          Looks like this:
          Click on the “HERE”

          If you would like to have a more informational index to the scrapbooks with descriptions of the content of each scrapbook, Blex has provided just the ticket. It is current through SB198. Click HERE to open or save (if you prefer) the .PDF document.

      • Travis,

        I don’t think anything at this point. I just came across something while researching stuff and the trees popped in my mind. As for the blaze, I can’t imagine the blaze is carved on a tree because it won’t last 1000 years, but that’s just my opinion.


  46. Don’t y’all wish Forrest had put an index in the back of his books?
    Indexes, though, are generally only placed in books that are non-fiction reference type books.
    Just thought I would point that out.

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