Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Eighty Five

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dal…

627 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Eighty Five

    • LOL, JDA.
      I might be ‘somewhat responsible’ – in part… I don’t fortune cookie my post, but attempt to explain possibilities and thoughts, thought process with information we have. I should limit my word count for my postings. Yeah, that might be it… lol

      However… Um… I’ll, err… just stop there.

      • Please don’t go a verbal diet Seeker. I for one, enjoy ALL that you have to say 🙂 JDA

      • Ill pick it up there JDA I had a dream last night that I found Indulgence the odd was a’lot that should of been around me wasn’t the only thing i saw was Brown as I walked by it but i had her in my hands still in the wood I had to move out fast, to fast to marvel gaze. this is the second dream like this must mean I’m thinking about the location of the Tc, and the quest to much. I Did have a smile in my dream last night Sir thank you for your service happy 4th every one be safe out there and happy dreams to you all.

        • Happy 4th to you and yours Jeff. Take care of your loved ones – including Titan 🙂 JDA

    • I just wanted to thank everyone at the fennboree 2019 ti enjoyed the time spent with you all thank you Forrest it was a good time Titan was so tuckerd out he’s still sleeping. you a good bunch of souls thank you all again.

  1. I think it’s odd no one has found the treasure yet. Fenn had a gut feeling which turned out to be heartburn and then he said he was frankly surprised it wasn’t found but yet here we are.
    I’m not surprised at his marketing skills although they don’t point to an end.

        • Well, you already know I’m fringe. But I’ll throw it out there. I think “gut feeling” confirms my bias for Elmo, WY as the blaze, as St. Elmo is St. Erasmus, and the windlass is his symbol. The same as what dragged that one guy out of the Vietnamese forest.

          I don’t mean to usurp my ideas. I only wish to propose something to consider.

          • Elmo seems like a high desert plain. I don’t see many trees there. It is in the highlighted area of his map but I don’t think it’s woodsy enough unless the clues take you out of that desert and into the wood.

          • Jake – I don’t believe the treasure chest is near Elmo, only that this place is the blaze. For me the poem then continues on to the end with other places, and then even back to the first stanza.

          • If the blaze is in Elmo, WY but the treasure is not or near Elmo, then how does the – look quickly down- work with this scenario?

            I always thought the blaze and treasure would be pretty close together.

          • Jake – so the theory is “look quickly down” is a clever allusion to local poet who has a headstone in the Hanna cemetery. From the headstone, we are to derive “Echoes”, or the letter E if using NATO phonetic letters.

            “Quickly” has a strange synonym with “scalded cat”. I don’t know why as this seems cruel. Forrest discussed “scalding chickens” to help pluck feathers in the book. I make the leap that quickly and scald are related. At the same time, “skald” is a Nordic word for poet. In Hanna, Betty Poulos is known for living there and published privately a book of poetry called “Echoes”, and this book is depicted on her headstone. Betty Poulos would therefore be the “skald chicken” as “Poulos” means “chicken”.

            “Quest to cease” is the location that contains a lot of Finns, like “quest to Finnish”.

            I think “But tarry scant with marvel gaze” suggests two things. First, as it is written, we are to ignore something. I think this means the coal miner marble slab observance in Hanna. I think he uses the word “marble” in TTOTC as an allusion to “marvel”, because of the “fricative v” sound in Spanish. It converts to a “b” sound. This particular slab (or scant) has several coal miners (tar is a byproduct of coke processing) asterisked because there were two miner accidents (he has two photos of “minor accident” in his book).

            Finally on this stanza, “just take the chest” would be to take the arc (ark) street named Tipperary to the place where some are resting “in peace”. Tipperary has a linkage to macaw, like Sinbad, via its etymology “Ara”. And it’s a long way (an old war song), like a long road home.

            This cemetery also contains other familiar words, like “While”, for example.

          • OOK, I asked.
            What the fricative is going on here?
            Do you really think this is what Fenn meant by looking up words and using your imagination?

            NATO phonetic letters
            scalded cat
            Nordic word
            fricative v
            Tipperary
            macaw
            Sinbad
            etymology
            Ara

            I think you left the poem somewhere.

      • Jake surprises me at you being such an authority here you haven’t found it.

        • I am not authority here or there and am surprised you haven’t found it seeing all the time you spent. We should have been partners.

          • Nope no partners no ties. Appreciate the offer. But since you seem to have changed direction why partner. Your comments to everyone just seem to be so sure of yourself. Just seems that your so on track to be the winner.

          • What do you suppose might be “GUT” feeling mean. Me personally thinks it has nothing to do with his digestive track. Rather a geographical feeling!

          • I have only put in equal of maybe 5 months searching to the years of posting you have been on here. “Years”

          • Travis Brown – “gut feeling” to me is a choice of words that matches with the repeating imagery pattern of “windlass” or rather “hoist”, “crane”, “winding/unwind”, “turn”, “haul”, and “lift”. As such, the matching map feature would be Elmo, which also happens to be a symbol for blaze.

        • Travis Brown … there are a lot of searchers who want you to believe that they are an authority on the hunt, or an authority on Forrest Fenn. And not one of them has found the chest, much to my everlasting glee.

    • What seems likely to me (although I am only guessing) is that he had reason to believe one or more searchers were on the right track and thinking in the right way (perhaps from something he read online or from something someone said in an email to him), then they later posted/sent a followup which gave him reason to believe they had missed something important and “walked out of the poem”.

      Close may be good enough for horse shoes, hand grenades, and nuclear war, but it isn’t good enough to find the chest.

      • Ray, no sir we did not miss anything.
        it is exactly what FF says it is and nothing more.
        listen good.

    • Jake,
      IMHO these feelings and statements from ff are based on “proof of proximity” and tempered with disbelief that -anyone- could be that close and resist that pull of carnal greed. Only upon the “experience of proximity” will the reality of an ethical dilemma manifest – a feeling of satisfaction tempered with genuine frustration.

  2. Maybe he’s waiting on me to get out there. Just need a flashlight, a sandwich and airfare.

  3. My 2 cents, Mr. Fenn likes to place or carve his initials into or on things. He’s stated that “if it weren’t for my name I wouldn’t have anything at all.” TTOTC pg. 25. His name is on his bell’s and etc. It’s important to him. Imo his initials will be in close proximity to the TC and, yes I’m still searching. Have fun and be safe this 4th.

    • Take two capital Fs, flip one left-to-right and place them so they share a single vertical line. Now tilt the crossbars to point down and to either side.

      It’s a stylized tree, like the way you might turn “FF” into a cattle brand.

      In this way, his name can literally be represented by a symbol for a tree.

      • Hi Ray: an F mirrored on its left (like you’ve described) also looks like the symbol for Texas Tech in good ole’ Lubbock.

  4. There are a lot of people say they have the location, but there are a lot of talkers that have never seen the Rocky Mountains or thigh high grass and scrub or a slide of rock from pebbles to a small car a mile wide and 2 miles long. I think the chest maybe a long time in being found. It has so many possibilities, I recently saw where someone has a list of a thousand plus hot springs, I personally don’t believe it is geothermal. But who knows.

    • Joe,

      Natural warming of waters as it flows more gently by the sun’s heat?

    • Was that a list of all US hotsprings?
      I only have 283 hotsprings in the search states, 985 more in other states for a total of 1268.
      I have no idea whether WWWH is geothermal or not, so I consider all possibilities with GE.

      Go to a hotsprings, check out the canyon, look for a home of Brown, rinse, think of new home of Brown concept, repeat.

      Also for each home of Brown concept, look for nearby alternative WWWH concepts.

      mBG

      • MBG: tried that approach 4 years ago: systematic proximity search for relevant named features in close proximity. Epic fail after 1000 hours of searching over 3000 15-minute topo maps. Stopped, as I rasterscan searched from north to south, when I got 2/3rds of the way through Colorado. Realized it would never work, and that the answer was much simpler.

        • then where’s the chest? You shouldn’t even make the assertion that you know something that others don’t. It’s rude. You do it over and over. Boosts your ego, I guess. Sorry you need it.
          I guess your carrot/sage/sunlight basin WWWH solution should forever remain a secret.

        • Wow: who crapped in your cornflakes today? How does sharing my own initial doomed strategy of visually searching topos imply I know where the treasure is hidden? Having a good solution to WWWH is clearly no guarantee of finding the chest, given that the first searchers to solve it did so over 6 years ago.

          • Zap,
            Bonehead comment to say the least! Your insight and effort is much appreciated by way too many to be simply diminished by some unknown entity. I told my grandson about you and he said “OH MAN, I would love to do that some day! ”

            Zap you’re one in a million and WE’RE LUCKY TO HAVE YOU WITH US!!

            What did Forrest say? The best revenge is wearing the bracelet! I do believe I know what rock he crawled out fromunda.

            Thanks again for all you bring to us here at HOD!

            Deano Bravo

          • Zap, you are 100% right when said that “having a good solution to WWWH is clearly no guarantee of finding the chest”. Forrest did mentioned that some searchers solved/identified first 2 clues but their arrival to the spot in close proximity to TC (200-500 feet) was an aberration and they were oblivious to its connection with the poem. Forrest also added: “more than several searchers have been at or near Where Warm Waters Halt but don’t understand it’s connection to the poem.”
            Simple conclusion here: you can find WWWH and even CD, they drive via canyon some distance and accidentally stop near PIBTHOB point (just an aberration). Chaotic walking around this point can even bring you to 200-500 feet distance from blaze and TC. But since you don’t know that you are below hoB you don’t know correct direction to the blaze and your search will be useless.
            IMO but Forrest knew that WWWH can be easy solved so he coded next clue (hoB) very well. If you solve hoB the probability of finding TC becomes close to 100%.

        • I simply over-reacted to “and that the answer *was* much simpler” (my emphasis on WAS) which implies you have “the answer” and we don’t, and you aren’t telling. I’m overly sensitive to those that feel the need to say they know something they are not willing to share. Obviously all of us know things that we won’t share, it doesn’t need to be flaunted. Some posters are worse than others . You generally float and critique ideas without the “flaunting unshared ideas”. So, my apology.

          As for giving up on that methodology, I can relate to that. But, the primary methodology for armchair searching (for me. anyway) is A. Target a WWWH, B. Do your canyon thing C. Look for a HOB, meek,creek that fits your idea of ff’s ideal place. Sometimes it works out of order, like you found a neat hoB, is there a WWWH/canyon candidate nearby? Or, you started looking at the great fly fishing rivers. Or, you say “hey, that’s a cool green area on GE, I wonder what’s there”? Having databases to say what is happening around that area is useful.

          But, I take a literal approach in the sense that things could be metaphorical at any level, but there are not encoded numbers or trivial letter manipulations required to solve/form the clues.

          I do my BOTG thing within a month.

          BTW, I threw out the cornflakes

          mBG

          mBG

          • Hi meBigGuy: I can certainly see how you could have taken my post as being boastful, so I apologize for not wording it better. I should have emphasized that the strategy I was employing was never going to work *for me*, and that the solution I fell into (and am still using) was less complicated in comparison with that somewhat mind-numbing strategy.

            I should not assume that someone carrying out a similar map-focused strategy couldn’t make a connection that I would miss. Rather, the thought I was trying to get across was that ~if~ my WWWH is correct, then a GIS-like placename search would not find it.

            You explained your methodology as “A. Target a WWWH, B. Do your canyon thing C. Look for a HOB, meek,creek that fits your idea of ff’s ideal place.”

            That’s essentially what I had been doing: trying to match up (for instance) warm springs with nearby canyons, possible HoB’s, and anything that might be construed as being “no place for the meek,” “heavy loads,” “water high,” “wise”, etc. In short, trying to minimize the area of a circle that would contain as many of these elements as possible.

            But the more time I spent doing this, the more I became concerned about just how many possibilities there were, and how no one of them was really any more special than the others. It didn’t help that Forrest was strongly suggesting that his WWWH was something that could (and should) be nailed down with confidence, coupled with the apparent ability of Little Indy to solve it with just the poem and a map of the U.S. Rockies. If WWWH was some tiny warm spring or creek feeding a stream or river leading to a canyon, how would miss Indy discover it with such a coarse map? Forrest’s comments just seemed to be leaning in the direction of something more clever or “big picture.”

            Good call on the cornflakes. 🙂

          • Zap,

            Little Indy as you say, is from Jenny Kyle and doesn’t exist. Little Indy did not come from F.

            So I only ask why in using Little Indy in your post for reasoning, or suggested reasoning or even an example?

            Just Ask’n

          • zap,
            re: lil-indy. I see no way to make sense of the little indy comment in light of the following (few is more than 2):

            “It helps to know something about Rocky Mountain geography when making plans to search for my treasure. Rocking chair ideas can lead one to the first few clues, but a physical presence is needed to complete the solve. Google Earth cannot help with the last clue. f”

            I also ask, how do you use it to justify anything?

            Also, you can use
            “You over simplify the clues. There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts. F”
            to justify the approach that you better be looking at the many places (WWWH, whatever that means) ‘]cause there are no shortcuts.

            mBG

          • Hi CharlieM: yes, Little Indy was a lark of Jenny’s. But just because the question involves a hypothetical situation doesn’t mean that Forrest can’t (or won’t) answer truthfully based on the information provided. He was under no obligation to answer the question at all — he could have just declined, as he has done with many other questions.

          • Hi mBG: “I see no way to make sense of the little indy comment in light of the following (few is more than 2):…” (followed by the rocking-chair ideas ATF). I take it you see a conflict in that you believe Indy should be able to solve more than just two clues. There are at least two ways out of this conundrum. The first is that general searchers (we) have no restrictions on resources: we’ve got the poem, the books, any maps we want, Google Earth, dictionaries, thesauruses, and so on. Little Indy is hamstrung because Jenny used the word “only”:

            “Can a little girl in India, who speaks good English, but only has your poem and a map of the US Rocky Mountains, work out where the treasure is?”

            Frankly, with just those two resources, it’s remarkable (and possibly revealing) that she can solve any clues at all.

            But I said there were at least two ways out of the paradox. The second is the way in which Forrest answered. He never said she could only solve two clues. To be honest, he didn’t say she could “solve” any, but it was somewhat implied in his answer:

            “The little girl in India cannot get closer than the first two clues.”

            “Closer” can take on a number of meanings. Suppose he means physically closer to the treasure. What if the third clue is further from the chest (as the crow flies) than the first and second? Maybe Indy can actually solve 3 clues, but in this scenario she still couldn’t get “closer” than the first two clues. And by answering in that fashion, he doesn’t have to reveal how many clues she can solve.

  5. Well the wait has been QUITE long this year, but I’m finally ready to kick off my 3rd BOTG season starting tomorrow morning before sun-up! Have a Happy Independence Day, everyone!

    • Happy Birthday to the USA! How fortunate we all are to live under the stars and stripes and the Constitution!

  6. 1, I, eye, eye on $1
    2, half, 50, John F Kennedy
    4, quarter, 25

    I-25 Colorado?

    (3 ,third, threepence, eightieth of pound sterling, Regina Elizabeth, on back (cocked 1/4) is diamond pineapple design like Fenn fence in book . ……or 3 siblings, middle.? I cant get 3 to be definitive at all here)

  7. 1, I, eye, eye on $1
    2, half, 50, John F Kennedy
    4, quarter, 25

    I-25 Colorado?

    (3 ,third, threepence, eightieth of pound sterling, Regina Elizabeth, on back (cocked 1/4) is diamond pineapple design like Fenn fence in book . ……or 3 siblings, middle.? I cant get 3 to be definitive at all here)

    • Before I-25 was built through Colorado, a local highway followed the same route through Denver. It was called the Valley Highway because portions of it were below the grade of the surrounding land. Some old-timers still refer to I-25 in Denver as the Valley Highway. Perhaps Canyon Down = Valley (Highway) South ?

      I’m not entirely convinced, but you’re welcome to use the idea if it fits your solve.

      • Ray,

        I’m not convinced at all, I-25 is not in a canyon and it also is not in the RM.

  8. Copperhead, I don’t know what you are talking about, but if it helps, think about those 25 traveling kids on a rope crossing a road. My old road map showed 25 named exits. The RED ‘Don’t Touch’ message could refer to the unmentioned state. Colorado = red. Good luck.

      • Hi big guy…. sorry, I erred… TTOTC said 20 kids, not 25. There was a matching number of main exits on I-25 when I counted. That road stretches across Colorado’s ‘front line’ where warm moist air of the old pirate-infested Caribbean halts & gets turned back to feed the tornado’s across the plains.

        Both the store FF visited & the teachers said ‘don’t touch’. Fenn told the 20 kids to ‘touch’. Just something to ponder.

        Another ponderable is FF’s comment that “two can keep a secret if one is dead” … is that ‘one’ already in a grave at the hidey place? With FF’s body there too, it might satisfy “riches old & new” .

  9. SoCal celebrated the 4th in classic fashion: with the largest earthquake we’ve had in 25 years: 6.4 up near China Lake. Rockin’ and a rollin’…

    • Some weeks ago one of the searches (on this site it think) mentioned that he had bought and was rehabbing a home for himself in Searles Valley (center of the EQ)…..I forgot his name but I hope we hear from him and he is ok.

      • Second, even stronger quake Friday evening. Altho felt in a wide area as some rolling, violent shaking near the epicenter. (BTDT x2, not fun.) Sounds like some significant damage in HDD’s area of Trono. Heartbreaking that he just recently finished his dream home rehab but encouraging no reports of major injuries.

        Hope you’re able to check in soon, HDD. May you continue to lift your eyes to the mountains – help is on the way.

  10. I think today would be a great day to ring Forrest’s bell. Let freedom ring! Happy Independence day and thank you Forrest for helping ring freedom in both with and without your bells.

    • Just saw KPro’s post from Nelika that suggest Forrest likely rang that bell at 2pm today.

      “And if the revival of the early American custom of ringing bells on Independence Day will have become established, I would consider this one thing the most important occurrence connected with my life.”
      -Eric Sloane

  11. I/m just trying to out run time whether he throws tornadoes earth quakes mud slides or whatever but he’s right behind me I can’t shake him. but i can see him in the big picture and the mirror, be safe out theree,

  12. any time you leave the house your braving the journey so being brave, was never meant to cost your life if you think safe. iv had to do it i mean wait a week or two the water will be down no matter how long it takes. your life is the most valuable thing you have think about it, always;
    TheBurch crew yae Titan too

  13. There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the chest

    can’t ignore any of the nouns

    Q- how many words do you come up with that are not useful?

    I get 23.

  14. A few are in tight focus with a word that is key

    Why is “few” in tight focus with “that”?

    • That tricky key has left many grinding teeth, including Alice. I store a picture of it on my thumb drive, the key that is. After all, security is more than just a shadow hidden under a Linus blanket.

        • I may have your answer since I have been in self punishment for my Holliday choices. I say let the ghost and the fictitious surface onto the realness of what was and is to be. And that the key fits the door correct to me
          And that it may be door number 1,2,or 3. Spin the wheel and whatcha go to lucky o split the aces double down before the clock strikes 12 and you start to frown. Let there be light after dark and it shine high and bright for that may only be the best of me.
          GH

  15. In other words, few seems to be a part of some pretty important ATF’s. Where do we use the reference for the word “few” to figure out what f is talking about? (without just guessing)

    A- …………….?

  16. For an “odd” and end, I find it odd that Forrest once wrote: “I read all emails unless they are too long, unsigned, or ask for an advantage or confirmation.” I find myself wondering what “too long” is, in Forrest’s mind. We have many examples of emails he’s shared on Dal’s that seem pretty long to me. Examples include Scrapbooks 57, 58, 66, 67, and 71. (There are others equally long or longer.) Perhaps some searchers have sent some real tomes?

    • To my mind, an email that is “too long” is one that keeps going on long after the author has stopped saying anything. Not long, but too long to read.

    • Zap… Put yourself in Fenn’s shoes. He probably scans most mails for the general idea … maybe looking for a significant word or two. I think his comment was perhaps made in hopes that some of the more prolific folks would tone it down a bit. There are some that most likely email him frequently with long tales and probably in the wrong area anyway… You gotta give him a ton of credit to have stayed this tight for this long.

      • Hi Ken: I guess the point I was trying to make is that I’m surprised he has the time to read emails that are longer than a paragraph or two when he’s getting over a hundred a day. That his definition of an email that ~isn’t~ too long seems to be quite generous. I have no doubt that there are many searchers who have emailed him hundreds of times, and others who have sent him their 50-page solutions by registered mail.

        • I get it Zap. I just think that Fenn is very invested in his Chase and reads a lot… just like those that have read every thread on this blog. Sound familiar?

    • Zap, thanks for links to “too long” emails in SBs. Never read them before but when I read them after your link I just realized that Forrest got to much “searcher’s ideas diarrhea” or SID (IMO, as I called it). All these SBs that you have mentioned belongs to SID. I don’t understand why Forrest published these SIDs in SB section. Maybe just show all other adequate searchers some borderlines of so-called “out-of-box thinking”. 3 years ago Forrest said: “Until now I have resisted telling them to get back in the box where their thoughts are comfortable and flow more easily.” So, maybe Forrest still continue read all (even too long) emails but now he scans them (emails) for two or three key words, which he says, “has happened three times. Three people have said key words. I never heard from them again! But they haven’t found the treasure.” (January 2018)
      2-3 key words that Forrest are waiting from searchers… What they are? He already knows that many searchers solved WWWH and CD clues. Most likely he is waiting for next clue i.e. hoB. Maybe these 3 said these key words about hoB but never even search around? We never know. So, I never send Forrest any emails about my search and if I ever send any it will be very short: “which address I should send a parcel with silver turquoise bracelet “.

  17. I put a link up to my photos from Fennboree on the top of the 2019 Fennboree Planning page…
    It can be found here:
    https://dalneitzel.com/2019/01/15/fenboree2019/

    Please excuse the question marks in some photo captions. I will replace them with actual names when my memory kicks in or someone reminds me…apologies to the folks whose names I let slip…Please don’t be offended. If I wasn’t wearing a name tag I wouldn’t know my own name…

    • Thanks for sharing these, dal. It looks like everyone had a good time.
      And wow, that cake that Patricia made looks downright incredible! Awesome work! 🙂

  18. Sure looks like a good time was had by all. Sorry that I could not make it. There are a lot of names that I would like to put faces to – Maybe next year. YEA for all who attended – JDA

  19. LOL – my post was disabled for some reason, you think that means anything?

    All I said (in ref to email #22) was that maybe the way to help someone is to give them space and assurance and to be there in case they should fall. All of us need to stand on our own two feet and sometimes we have to learn how to do it over again. Great things can be accomplished with effort, perseverance, and alot of Faith.

    Rambling and Roving as always in search off….

    wwwamericana

  20. Heading north from Fennboree. I will be in Gallatin County, MT this evening for a couple days..I will be searching in my familiar place with new ideas. Looking forward to being there and tromping around that scenic wonderland. If anyone else is out there this evening or Wednesday and wants to meet up for a root beer…email me.

  21. Travel channel is running Expedition Unknown=Finding Fenns Fortune at 7:00 pm eastern time today. It’s always a sweet way to spend an hour.

  22. BOTG

    I am interested to know if people are willing to share the number of times they did a BOTG.

    I’ll start: 2 (yes, I am a relative newbie to TTOTC). Both in 2018. One planned for 2019.

    • Kurt,

      On the right side of each page near the top look under Other Seacher’s Stories.

      There is a new post related to botg, The Poem Married to a Map, by the way mine.
      I know a shameful plug!

    • Days? trips? Different areas?
      I could search a few different areas in a day or maybe just one.
      I could do many BOTG on a week long trip.
      I think others have tried to get this info before and really doesn’t help in finding the chest.
      I would bet Fenn has the most accurate info although there are many that don’t share with him or anyone.

      It’s good to get a few under your belt kurt.

      • Thanks Jake. I am more curious about how active the people on Dal’s forum are than getting tips/hints.

        I am hoping not to have too many more BOTG’s but so is everyone else. 😉

        • It’s a valid non biased question where the answers do not help anyone and I am curious myself but the devil is in the details.
          I guess it matters what your definition of BOTG is?
          I know of some areas I hiked but it morphed to different areas many times that I had not planned on searching so would you count each branching off as a new and different BOTG?

          • Jake, I think it’s difficult to clearly define BOTG. Because I live so far from the Rockies I consider a BOTG as a single trip with as many searches as I can fit in.

            Others may consider a BOTG as each potential search area, even in the same day.

          • OK, if trips = BOTG
            7 for me from the Treasure Coast.
            Vacations are frowned upon here in the not so sunshine state even though you have time built up. 🙁

            Actual BOTG I never kept track of but I would say at least 35 seeing I would like to make the most coming from far away.

    • Kurt,

      I’ve been following the chase for over 5 years. I’ve had 3 BOTG trips.

      The first one was 2 years ago and I went alone. I still work on the same solution but that first trip, i didn’t do enough research and went the wrong way.

      Last year I made 2 trips, once with my wife and the second one I did by myself. I drove all the way from Ohio but was hampered by bad weather and didn’t have much time to search.

      I would like to search this year but I’m not certain I’ll make the trip. Time will tell.

      TimM

    • I guess the bottom line is, quantity doesn’t help and quality has gotten a few within 200′ seeing they were early on searchers they probably didn’t search many times as some have now but Fenn probably wouldn’t elaborate if some have been closer in a clear statement if they were closer or at the same 200′ mark after 2013 statement.

    • I’m at 16 trips. Each trip is usually three days.

      The interesting part is that my starting point never changed. I just keep going further. That was always part of my strategy, too. Eventually I’ll hit the Pacific Ocean, like Lewis & Clark.

    • Hi Kurt;

      Simple answer is 29 trips in 43 months of searching. All to same general area – 🙂 JDA

    • Three total, one in August, September and October of 2018, each one day in duration, fly in to airport, search following day, fly out same day. Solved all the way to blaze in July before first BOTG after just one hour of analyzing poem. The final part is no easy task even after cracking the code (key word) before October trip. I have not read any FF books, just the poem and where those words lead me to research online, but what some people have said is in the FF books confirms what I figured out on my own by online research. My wife’s father is named Forrest and I think they are kindred spirits, helps me to correctly interpret FF’s manner of communicating. My problem is limited time and resources, so I have to look for cheap fares when I have occasional break in the action. My motivation is to rescue certain souls in dire need. I’ll be back.

    • Kurt,
      6 BOTG’s. Working on #7 within a month if nothing pops up to prevent me from going. Not easy coming from North Carolina but worth every penny spent. Been at the Chase since 2010.

      • Tarheel Searcher,

        Wow! Since 2010! I too have to travel long distances (I am outside the US) but it’s well worth it for the great hikes and scenery.

    • I’ve made 4 trips.
      2 to one area with 2 different WWH candidates.
      2 to another area with 2 different WWH candidates.
      In total though, I have explored 10 ‘X’s on the map.
      In all cases, the additional candidate ‘x’s have been further on from the last, which from what others have said, sounds popular: All good solutions up to that search area, so we ask, ‘what did I miss?’ and re-apply what we learn.
      And in the spirit, I have another trip planned for August where I will again explore further on from my last foray.

    • Hi Kurt: I’m starting to lose count, but it’s either 7 or 8 trips to the same area over 3+ years, all using the same WWWH and canyon down. No other WWWH will be considered.

      • zaphod73491,

        I have a WWWH idea that is getting all my attention. I want to exhaust that idea before moving on.

      • Hi Tonto: the answer is buried in the archives here, which is probably best. Personally identifying, but no — not a zipcode. 😉

    • I did two in 2015, two in 2016, one in 2017, and one in 2018. For 2019, I have
      at least one planned; perhaps two or three.

  23. Be prepared for new people on the blog. I flipped on the TV and the Forrest Fenn episode of Expeditions Unknown is airing. I’ve seen it before but it was fun to recap, especially for us Ohio Buckeyes that can’t get to the Rocky’s as often as we like!

    I’ll say this, I keyed in on the Fenn interview a little closer than the rest of the program and he said something to the effect of, ‘I’d visited the location a few times.'(paraphrased). I don’t know why that stuck out to me but he didn’t say he’d been there many times.

    Oh well, to all the new visitors to the blog today… welcome!

    TimM

  24. All,
    With respect to the comment above, that it is odd that TC has not yet been found…
    IMO, the searcher, or group of searchers, who find TC:

    [will be] “in tight focus with a word that is key”
    [will] “use logic to determine an important clue to the location of the treasure”
    “will be positive in their attitude and deliberate in their actions”
    [will analyze] “one important possibility related to the winning solve”
    [read the] “poem like you were going to put an X on a map”
    “notice what was beside” [them]
    “adjust” the “challenging” “blueprint”
    “make all the lines cross in the right spot”
    [map] “the geographic location of each clue”
    “start with the first clue, and let it take you to the blaze”
    “know where the edge is”
    “knowingly go to within several steps of the treasure chest”
    [and realize that] “If you are in the right spot something you probably haven’t thought about should be obvious to you”

    And, note these additional comments from F:
    “it would be difficult to find but not impossible” (2010)
    “The fact that nobody has found it, I’m frankly surprised.” (18 May 2017)
    [in emails] “three people have said key words…But they haven’t found the treasure.” (1 Nov 2018)

    [Yet]

    Geoff
    “Have flashlight, will travel”
    Safe searching, everyone!

    • Now what was #1 again – I forgot? 🙂 Just joking. Nice job of putting into a few words that which we all know, but sometimes forget – Thanks for the post – JDA

    • It’s nice that you repeat what fenn as stated, But, in your opinion, what do you do with all that info?

      Geoff ~ [map] “the geographic location of each clue”

      I’d like to highly the answer a bit…

      “I don’t know how Toponymy can help you at all Chris (I had to look that word up). But if you knew the geographic location of each clue it would be a map to the treasure. f”

      Again If we read “location” of each clue, and add; Marry the ‘clues’ to ‘A place’ on a map…
      We tend to start seeing a pattern.
      While “each clues” is mentioned, and a singular location is implied.
      Why? Because in the second comment it implies ‘A Place’ on a map, to marry the clues to.

      What I don’t see is, more than one map needed. [GE included, as a single mapping tool]
      I don’t see “LocationS” of each clue [ although it can read as more than one clue having a location differ from other clues, so why not say ‘ the locations of each clue’?
      Yet in the overall aspect of those two comments… it seems… “A Place” is where ALL the clue can be found.

      While these two comments alone don’t produce a firm, positive idea. We can surmise, don’t go where an 80 yr old can’t to be considered a smaller area, [ then lets say 10 miles one way. ] fenn followed his clues and went to the hide – twice. Walked less than a few miles and was done in one afternoon.

      But before you buy.. let me sweeten the offer… I’ll throw in;
      ~ I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the **location** beforehand, but sure for the one who did.

      We can read “location” being the chest, I guess… or the blaze as well.
      Or even WWsH, but is WWsH the whole idea of the ‘Path’?
      [ I lean towards a path as; a procedure adopted to deal with a situation.][which also deals with NPFTM]
      Or we can read this as; the “location” of where the clues are at.
      That seems to fall in lines with; A Place on a map [GE], and “Location” of each clue.

      We also have [ which you pointed out as well Geoff ];
      “start with the first clue, and let it take you to the blaze”

      If all the first clue does is get us to that clue, how does that clue truly “take you to the blaze” ?
      LOL we have 8 more clues, right? We have folks at the first clue and they seem to just leave this clue to search for later clues… ‘left the poem idea’ Might it be that this all unfolds right at WWsH… the one clue fenn says we need or we have nothing, don’t go….

      What is it about this first clue that is a must have or don’t go [ searching ].?

      Geoff, I throw this idea of mine out once more and use something you said to point it out; You said;
      [will be] “in tight focus with a word that is key”

      I kinda like the “tight focus” part of this ATF. I think the poem is partly deciphered as; “Being ‘observing where warm waters halt. Observing is one part of what fenn as repeatedly told us we should do; Think, Analyze, a logical mind, plan, observe, and use of imagination. One other point fenn implied as well is; The blueprint is challenging so the treasure may be located by the one who can best adjust.

      A blueprint is something we build from. It’s instructions more than directions. So why are we needing to learn WWsH?

      The other point you stated; [will] “use logic to determine an important clue to the location of the treasure”
      LOL, I’m gonna hang my hat on the idea of “take it in” as reference to the word “IT” as “observation” of / from A Place on a map… certainty of that location beforehand… deliberate in action.. let the first clue “take you to the blaze” All done at the geographical location of each of the clues.. at the clue fenn tells us we need to nail down or we have nothing.

      Just food for thought…

  25. Thanks for this list of quotes from Forrest, Geoff. I have them all in my files but separately, so I’ll just copy it and save in my files.
    Not completely agree with your statement “that it is odd that TC has not yet been found”. Forrest was created this coded poem during 15 years so maybe searchers need at least 15 years to crack all coded clues inside of poem. Maybe 2025 will be the year of TC discovery (IMO).
    This chase is similar to crowdsourcing approach but the difference is that majority of searchers never reveal their solutions and BOTG areas. Some of them send their solutions to Forrest but we know that he will never answer (doesn’t matter correct or wrong was their solutions). Sometimes some searchers share their solutions on this website but most likely that other searchers don’t believe in their solutions. It’s human nature – we believe in our ideas/solutions but reject solutions of others (simply because their solutions contradict our solutions). We are all sure that we know key words and when hear key words from other searchers we are usually very skeptical. This situation will never change but we know from lottery statistics that millions independent attempts will result in one winning jackpot ticket. The chase is similar to lottery in terms of that each searcher draw coordinates of possible TC location independently from other searchers. Rockies area in Forrest map is very big so there are millions possible locations for TC.

  26. Thanks to everyone who responded with BOTG numbers. I too, as others, am fixated on a certain area where I think WWWH and want to exhaust that lead before moving on to another type of solution. My first BOTG in July 2018 was way off in retrospect because I didn’t do much research into Fenn quotes. There are so many beautiful places to explore and adventures to be had. I am looking forward to September in the Rockies.

    Keep up the search everyone!

  27. I just stopped in at Baker’s Hole…fascinating coincidence…
    The camp host at Baker’s Hole Campground in West Yellowstone is a guy named Larry…
    and believe it or not he’s from Temple and had Marvin as a math teacher in Jr. High about 1960…

    I have not found out yet if he is a searcher…but doesn’t seem to be…
    He seems too squared away to be chasing Indulgence… 🙂

    • Hey Dal… any chance that you could slip a microchip in his pack? Just joking…maybe.

        • Or perhaps jennook if one were feeling a bit sombre hued. Like after a stone cold romance, bear right and know the true value of a Sacajewea impression, for she is a real head turner towards the end…or could that be another beginning.

        • Spallies…actually…the big sign that used to be on the highway IS gone…but that sign at Fennboree was a “retired” sign…he didn’t swipe it…

    • Dal – Thank you! We met Larry, and wondered aloud after, if he might be watching the treasure location for Forrest. But then we remembered Forrest’s “secret” quote that is similar to Benjamin Franklin’s. I have always thought Marvin Fenn was the other person keeping Forrest’s “secret”.

      What’s the ‘water high’ and ‘heavy loads’ situation ‘current-ly’ there, on the Madison River?

      Awesome. Big Smile!

    • This is pretty co-inky-dental. I am surprised that Marvin was a math teacher in that time frame. Don’t know all the history, but would have thought he might be principal. Unless he bounced back and forth between teaching and principal.

        • I had to chuckle…
          Marvin Fenn’s story took up the same mount of space as the “Senators” story… maybe even a bit more.

          LOL, Field and Stream vs. Legislation, wins every time.

          • Seeker – Lol!

            Now I am imagining Marvin Fenn, up on a cloud, watching Forrest burning things to make pine tar and pine pitch, ‘at both ends’ of my Ponder•O•S•A pine tree at my ‘hide-y’ spot:

            https://www.primalsurvivor.net/make-pine-pitch/

            I still believe Forrest spent the last night of his three day ‘walk’ down the Madison River, as described in the preface of TFTW, providing a means to prevent the ground water and snow melt from damaging the bronze chest and its contents.

            All IMo.

            No Wee Gee Board Mouse Pad or Magic Eight Ball required. Just a logical solution.

            I miss Goofy.

        • Hello yellow dog and Lisa ,

          Thanks for posting the article about Marvin Sr’s stellar fishing abilities. He was skillful with all rods. (I’ll bet Forrest or Skippy severed a few spanking rods).

          If I were guessing at favorite New Mexico fishing spots…given the criteria of being similar to Marvin sr’s favorite Montana locations…
          Eagles nest lake is similar to Hebgen Lake; or how about the Pecos & Cimarron River canyons?

          Has anyone considered Eric Sloane and Forrest “May have” participated in the preservation of the Cassidy family’s Molina/flour mill in Mora? It makes a nice home of brown.

          • 42 – You’re baack! I have missed you terribly. Have you been BOTG in Montana lately?

            Love, Lisa (formerly aka E Star)

            p.s. Love the idea about the Eric Sloane connection.

    • Wow, dal! That’s pretty crazy! You should ask him if he played on the Central Jr. High School Kittens!

      • He said he skipped school a lot…particularly morning classes…apologized later…but he worked when he was in school…big family…no money…

        • back in my time a lot people skipped school to work in the fields to help the family – people from other places would come using words that people really didn’t know the meaning so they made up one – and people thought that was it meant and they used it as that- ff was one of them and I was one people talked different because of that for more the 50 years I thought meek meant small- I see words that he uses that he used back then that’s why some clues are hard to figure out so good luck

          • You are so right. In Illinois we believed meek meant small too. Also fragile.

  28. Quick question…
    I’ve heard around for some time now that a comment of; ‘Forrest father would know the location’
    Can anyone point me in the right direction, if fenn stated this, or was it a searchers comment gone wild or reporter or such?

    Thanks in advance for any info.

  29. All,
    Jake Faulkner suggests that “it’s odd no one has found the treasure yet.”
    Forrest says that he’s “frankly surprised” that nobody has found it.
    But, Andy S notes that there are “millions’ [of] “possible locations” for TC.
    Seeker observes, “We tend to start seeing a pattern.”
    (IMO…Perhaps that is what a blind searcher cannot do?)
    My question is: What stopped those three searchers who “said key words” from finding TC?
    Geoff
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

    • Geoff, maybe those three searchers who said key words in emails never realized that those words were correct key words. Most likely that Forrest scans all emails for name of place that he coded in poem as home of Brown (IMO). Many searchers have ideas what is hoB and many of them send those ideas to Forrest. They never get any answers from Forrest. Of course, if they know that their ideas are correct they will found TC during days (maybe weeks). But since they didn’t knew it they just did quick BOTG in this area and as Forrest said “their arrival was an aberration and they were oblivious to its connection with the poem.” They just didn’t recognized other clues in this place and concluded that their “key words” were wrong. They never know that they were within 200-500 feet from TC. Also the blaze might be very small object (visible only from 12 distance) so the probability of finding by searcher who walking chaotically (without any trails) in some wild area becomes very low. IMO, but when TC will be finally discovered and it’s location will be revealed many searchers will realize that they have visited this area and were within 500 feet or even closer.

      • Has FF ever confirmed or denied searchers guesses? Why do people keep sending them to him?

        • I’ve emailed a few solutions to FF because I needed to share them with someone new. Sort of like when a song is going through your head, by sharing it, you can pass on the mind worm. So sharing my solution helps to relieve the excitement of a new idea that has yet to be field tested, particularly in the middle of winter.
          I do hope that his encouragement to those who have submitted key words apply to me!! : ) I have not completed my search of the area described in my last email to him where I have given the location of WWH, HOB, Blaze. At this point it is the Blaze location that I have been iterating on with all else the same.

      • Andy S. – Great observations! Maybe those three words Forrest scans emails for are these?:

        Baker’S Hole Campground

        The rest of your excellent analysis fits my solve. What ‘stopped’ them? Crossing the “tributaries” the Grizzes used to cross, to get to the garbage dump, where the KWYS airstrip was later built? Or, crossing the Madison River, wearing wading boots, or using a ‘brave and in the wood’ canoe, which I may now have access to. If I can convince a friend to put it on top of his Jeep to head to West Yellowstone.

        All IMO.

  30. My ghostwriter Sumyung Guy wasn’t available today… so I consulted my Magic eight ball.
    It said; Don’t take advice from a toy.

  31. Met up with two teams of searchers last night at the Happy Hour Bar on Hebgen Lake. Interesting…They both had searched their area with no luck. One team took the position that they needed to regroup and rethink. The other team took the position that they were certainly using the correct solution which led them to a man-made tank of some sort where the treasure should be…but they couldn’t get in it…
    Hmmm….
    What do you think?
    I know what I think…

    Wednesday is crab night at the Happy Hour. Crab was GREAT….and while West Yellowstone was CRAMMED with people standing in lines to get inside every joint` for a meal, the Happy Hour had plenty of seats…no waiting. We sat outside on the patio and looked at the lake ate delicious crab legs and talked Fenn…NICE!

    I am in no way connected with or received compensation from the Happy Hour or any of it’s staff for the above comment. 🙂

    • Did you make a picture with your pants down for the men‘s wall? The bartender tried to convince TrueBeliever and me to do it, but we were too… err… shy… lol

  32. I am headed into the park today. I have a rinky-dink solution to try. It can’t possibly be THE solution but it sounds like a nice walk and who knows what I might find along the way…
    Enjoying life and a walk in the park..

    • I hope it’s not the pay part of the park. Bring a clicker counter with you, I’m curious as to how many vehicles you count while heading to your parking spot.

      • Jake-
        I am well past the age where I have to PAY to get into a national park. I believe 62 is the age you can apply for a senior pass and never have to pay again…Those passes have a one-time fee associated with them. When I got mine that fee was $5. I believe it’s much more now…anyway…I get into all National Parks and Monuments for free…and half off on campsites..including compsites in national parks and national forest’s.

        • I would still card you anyway. $5 elder fee is a bargain and fair for all NP’s and monuments.

          • $80+ now, unfortunately. I was just one year too young to catch the previous $10 fee.

    • Dal – RU walking along the Downriver Riverside Trail, to see if you can find that cave where the Fenn Family stowed their stuff over the Winter, before they built the Fenn Haven Cabins?

      That would be the FREE way to get into YNP, Jake. Unless you spend $50.00 to buy bear spray, which I would. We saw pics of several mating Grizz pairs, who had been in the vicinity of Barns Holes #1-#5, on the evening previous to our evening picnic next to Barns Hole #1 on Memorial Day Weekend.

      I hope you are enjoying your walk, Dal!

      • Lisa…what cave? I don’t think there was a cave…just a place in the trees where they parked the trailer…It would still be easy to hide a trailer in the thin pine forest along the road to the Barns Hole. But now that area gets more use from cross country skiers and snowshoers in the winter so it might not go unnoticed…
        I’ve seen a photo of their trailer left for the winter and no cave was involved. What makes you say there was a cave…?
        and
        No…I don’t know of any cave out there nor have I looked…That area has been in use by visitors and residents for a hundred years…if there was a cave there would be a trail right up to it and probably a concession stand selling hot dogs and t-shirts out in front of it.

        • Dal – Oh. I didn’t know you saw a pic of the Fenn family trailer, left over the Winter.

          I couldn’t imagine how all their gear they used to camp out with the other teachers would make it through the often long and deep Yellowstone Winter without doing a Fenn Cache thing in a nearby cave. I was imagining finding one like this Otter Creek cave in YNP:

          https://www.yellowstonestereoviews.com/backcountry/ottercave2.jpg

          Wish I had that old Fenn trailer. I would make a bar out of it, where my librarian friend could also sell her hand tied flies to fishermen to match the hatch.

          • There are plenty of cAves in YNP but none in West Yellowstone…no geology formations that would suggest a cave…It’s all moraine in that area. A pretty flat bowl with the Madison and it’s tributaries cutting through…Over by Hebgen lake there are plenty of cave formations…on both sides of the lake…but not right around West Yellowstone along the riverside…

    • By the way…no treasure chest…but I did find a blaze…however the blaze was man-made and not worth the orange paint applied to it as far as the search goes..in my opinion…

      • Funny how you met those other searchers chatting about a man-made tank and now you find a manmade blaze or whatever but we know that’s probably not a viable choice.
        Glad you have enough sense to know what a blaze may be.
        Don’t trip over any shadows, there everywhere.

      • I got another rinky-dink search area right up Taylor Creek.
        You and Ezmerelda get a good night’s rest and head up nigh and put in below Brown home:
        https://photos.app.goo.gl/Z62QSw6LrMXzb4TAA

        It’s only another 11 miles up a gravel road after that put in.
        Ez – mer – elda
        (Easy) – (Merry) – (Elder)
        Eldridge

        • I think Jake is correct about going up there, but the water remains a bit high.

          Ranger Mike is rocking a large pointed gnome beard this season. He has all the local news and gossip.

          • Yup, he had the gnome thing going for a while.

            Great area for a vacation and I’m not supposed to talk about Taylor Creek after a nasty swear ridden email I got about mentioning it on this blog from a searcher who just about lives there. I had to block his email address because he was so upset.
            He thinks he owns the place and he said he will find the treasure soon there with a few F’s thrown in.

            I would say that Fenn and Donnie did pass through this place in looking for Lewis and Clark adventure.
            Hint or……

      • and apparently no BabeRuth wrappers left behind by others for you to pack out. Good. That means a more respectful and respectable demographic is spending time there.

  33. During a week that included Fennboree, the unquestionably most enlightening revelation regarding the Chase….is that pdenver appears to have first hand knowledge of the ‘art’ that graces the walls of both gender’s facilities at the Happy Hour on Hebgen. Livin’ on the wild side there, you crazy lady.

  34. Hi everyone ,

    found 2 different connections to F thumb on philly , been debating if I should divulge one or two or none.
    but thought I’d put this one out for thought.
    Philly is a very important place for bells , The liberty bell is one , we all know F makes bells , the inscriptions on the bell is intresting , the original bell they spelled Pensylvania with one n..not with 2..just intresting how F. spelled knoledge, without the w, on one of his bells.
    there is a biblical inscription on the bell also. ..dont know how much connection to the chase this helps..maybe more research can turn up something..

  35. MWG,
    Just an FYI….It’s a missing “D” not “W”, in the word knowledge..

    • eaglesabound,

      I am aware , but to go back and correct something that has little to do with the actual point of meaning , is wasteful time.

      mwg.

  36. Hi MWG
    There is a reason he left the d out of knowledge if you can figure it out.
    Clint. (Knowlege)

    • hi Clint

      he does have a YouTube video that he explains on why he left it out. I used the missing letters as an example that there may be other correlations that potentially can be discovered from the philly thumb to the bells.

      mwg

  37. p.s.
    did you know pass and stow the men who recreated the liberty bell owned a foundry called whitechapel.
    f said his church is in the mountains.

    • Maybe there is a correlation MWG. “nd” is short for “need”. Maybe we “need” to find the bell. Or maybe the “church”. Wouldn’t surprise me if one or both of those thoughts come into play somewhere. The thought of a “bell” somewhere within the chase is a good one. It is his “secret” plan, (pg.137), and the poem does say, “I can keep my secret where”. 1000 years down the road, how else would a searcher let f know?:)

      • I don’t figure anybody is going to let FF know anything a thousand years
        from now. That’s my opinion, and I’m stickin’ to it. All IMO.

  38. FF is trying to draw our attention to THE EDGE , he left the D out so we would be focused on the EDGE .

    • JPE,

      That might be a good idea… but I think [don’t quote me on this] some, if not the majority, of the bells were buried before the thought of challenge. For that idea to plan out… I’d need to look up when fenn may have stated he started burying bells… I’m pretty sure he did state something about it at one time.

      • He actually started to bury bells with jars in New Mexico. He planned to bury 28 in all, (like spokes on a medicine wheel). I have the info at work, but what I remember was that he buried 8 first in New Mexico, had a plan to bury 28, then buried another 8. Don’t quote me on that, but I remember a few ATF’s saying that. Also remember him saying he didn’t get to bury all like he wanted, I would need to look at notes at work.

        • Remember he did say that some romantic Historian might find in the year 12016. (Why did he use that year?, why not just 12000, or 12015?) in a whisper, that answer will answer a lot of ATF’s.

          • Any chance the 1 was a typo or on purpose and it should have read 2016? Or was he really going for 10,000 years from now = to elevation. Hmmmm

    • JPE ,
      IMO that’s not actually not true , in the youtube video he has stated the purpose of miss spelling knowledge is to show the word is meaningless then th3 use imagination. ,
      have to remember when f got started in art dealings he had no knowledge of the business so he used his imagination to become successful.
      to forest knowledge is nothing.
      if you have imagination.

      • MWG: I think Forrest has made it clear that knowledge is important. “No time spent in thought is wasted and nothing is too small to know, so one should not let knowing a little bit be a substitute for learning more.”

      • JDA. You haven’t found that thing yet. I can’t pin it down. I have a location from the poem using my Solve. I am waiting to see if I can
        get closer to it. If I can see mountains it is in the open and buried.
        hidden or placed it has that too. What will I realize standing there.
        Its not there and use my intuition again. Taking views and seeing something. I must be missing a ATF comment somewhere.
        Don’t want to spend a week searching the location I guess that’s the working for it comment. high lite the 2 books write a solve hand it to
        a searching family and let them have at it. I want that gold myself too.
        nine clues five confirmations and a location. And can’t pin it down enough to take my walk of shame. I just can’t go right to the chest.
        O the walk of shame. But I could say I searched for the Forrest Fenn
        Treasure and had a great time. Or I am just wrong.
        Go get that Thing. Someone….

  39. I’d like to think Ledge or Edge has to do with it mostly because it works with my solve but to take the D out? for Ege or Lege…. The definitions aren’t horrible I guess. Just like he got D’s in school. almost failing, yet still passing. He is bringing attention to the letter D. Though Knowledge is apart of learning & grades for school. Now I’m just turning in circles… bang head on high school desk.

    • Hi jminnesota,

      Tell Radio Shack hello. Hope you are doing well. Talk about writing in “code”…..

      Covert One

      • Covert One
        …. .. -.-. — …- .!
        We are actually heading back out to WY within the month on a good enough lead. Stay cool and next time you hide under a table all stealth like… make sure it’s because you drank us under!

  40. Has anyone thought about the mathematical equation …f traveled from TX to YS at x mph for x hours a day taking x days to get there? Then, concentrating on the overnight stops, as a possible place f loved to visit. Being cramped in a hot car, no a/c, stopping for the night, running around and exploring the area…? I did it as a kid! Maybe one of the over night stops is patiently guarding Indulgence.
    The route does include ALL four states. Just an idea I thought I’d throw out there!
    ¥PEACE¥

    • Yes they have – google “fenn travel temple tx to yellowstone” – shows relevant comments from Reddit, Chasechat, Dalneitzel, etc. People have looked at the routes that the Fenns would have travelled as thay existed in the 1930s. An excellent idea that needs revisiting. Example: was the 1-room schoolhouse which was 50 miles out of their way in Lander, Wyoming ? I am sure that one of the regulars here has a list of probable stops on the trip, one of which was the Cody Museum.

      • Another spot, just a bit South was where some of the first Clovis points were discovered. I think it was Eden, WY.

        • Zap – considering the number of inscriptions mentioned in the book, does your theory take locations of inscriptions into account? The Thrill of the Chase does have the word “inscription” in its name, so to speak.

        • Hi E.C. Waters: I don’t like to get too many levels removed from the original material, which taken to its extreme becomes the “six degrees of separation” multi-dimensional Pachinko machine. In this particular instance, the Horace Mann quote probably can’t be found in a lot of places in the Rockies, so the location ~might~ be relevant. But if that quote also happened to be found in, say, New Hampshire, I wouldn’t take New Hampshire to be a hint.

          • Hmm. It seems like maybe I’ve created an image that says anything I post is too complex. Maybe it is. But if it’s not, all the better.

            My sense is that the title of the book is relevant in multiple definitions, because it seems to me that Forrest is clever and subtle like this.

          • Also, I’d be super curious about how this quote is truly attributed to Horace Mann, other than via pinterest. I’ve seen the inscription in UNC. Have you sources that are maybe closer to Mr. Mann’s time?

          • Hi E.C.: I can find just as much evidence (i.e. very little) that the quote is from superintendent Oliver Howard.

          • I don’t know either how (or by whom) it came to be attributed to Horace Mann.

            There IS a Horace Mann Gate (financed by the class of 1910) on the UNC campus in Greeley CO, but the inscription on it is simply “ROWING NOT DRIFTING”.

          • Zap – based on your allusions, I’d guess you’ve been analyzing a book cipher approach, perhaps using Catcher in the Rye as your key, if in the wood means in the grain.

            But if you are approaching like this, why not consider that people’s names as inscriptions on rocks could be used with their indexed year they were there as the number? There certainly are a large number of opportunities to be thrilled by chases in this way, and would seem to require some botg work across WY.

            It seems to me that pi in a reflection as 41.3 (pie in a mirror) would be a clever latitude to use, given he speaks of mirrors and pies.

          • He did say he’s looking at 100 years, a 1000 years down the road. There are 1000s of inscriptions chased on stones that have colors other than yellow all over WY. It seems to me we should be collecting these strings.

          • Hi E.C.: “based on your allusions, I’d guess you’ve been analyzing a book cipher approach, perhaps using Catcher in the Rye as your key, if in the wood means in the grain.”

            No, nothing that complicated. Mostly poem, map, logic and simple steganography methods (similar to those that have been used on past armchair treasure hunts). It is an amusing exercise to try to discover Forrest’s hints in the books and other communications, but ultimately a distraction from the problem.

            Forrest’s aberrations gnaw at me, but in most cases the “what” doesn’t lead to an unambiguous explanation for “why.” For instance, why does he misspell some people’s names (e.g. Richard Wetherell, Orson Wells and Charles Lindberg) but not others? An additional clue is that the misspellings don’t alter the pronunciation. I have a pretty solid answer for Orson Welles, but the other two elude me (other than the commonality of the “ell” in Wetherell’s case). Ell’s, Ella’s, L’s and 50’s (Roman L) abound in Forrest’s writings, for which I have a satisfactory explanation, so that may be all there is to the Wetherell misspelling.

            You mentioned pi (and of course we have many instances of Forrest bringing up pies). Pineapple pie (pi pi = two pi?) is a funny choice. Even more so in conjunction with the multiple mentions of Brad Pitt. As someone here, I think?, noted (though maybe it was MW or THOR): PI TT is a pictogram of Pi Pi. So two pi again.

          • Richard Wetherill’s name is actually spelled ‘Wetherell’ on his grave marker in Chaco Canyon.

            You may already know, Zap, that Wetherill was killed in Chaco Canyon on 22 June 1910, a hundred years before ff’s treasure may have been hidden.

          • Hi JAK: almost exactly 100 years if my theory is right. 😉 Didn’t know his name was spelled wrong on his Chaco Canyon grave marker. Curious.

  41. I’m late to this as I haven’t been following along as closely (keeping up with all the comments can get onerous), but regarding the kerfluffle with Jake towards the beginning of this post:

    Having an opinion on what a wrong solution looks like is unrelated to having the right solution or even the right type of solution.

    IMO, there are way too many posts where people free-associate something from the book and try to then make that be a legit interpretation of a clue. Even worse is where there’s multiple steps between book and clue. I think Jake was relatively restrained in offering his opinion on the interpretation that was put forth. I tend to shake my head in disbelief and stay silent.

    Okay, hopefully I’m not kicking up drama. Just my two cents.

  42. The Cody Museum did not exist when f was a child. He is actually a member of the board of directors.
    I found the schoolhouse, it’s in Colorado.
    Eden, Wy is in the middle of an almost desert like area, and not worth searching, except for relics. I guess y’all missed my meaning, but thank you for your comments! 🙂
    ¥Peace¥

    • Hi Donna M.: if you’ve found that schoolhouse, then congratulations are in order because as far as I know you would be the first! But does it have the Horace Mann inscription above the door? That would be the clincher. If it doesn’t, you must have some other means of determining that you’ve got the right place (e.g. 50-mile distance out of the way).

      Personally I think the story about driving so far out of their way — *every* time they went to Yellowstone! — is a clear sign that this story has been significantly stretched from reality. And that being the case, there is probably a hint here to be deciphered. It has not escaped my notice (or perhaps the notice of others) that four of those eleven words begin with the letters WWWH: Who, With, Workshop, and He or His

      Amusingly, the remaining 7 initial letters can spell “a glitch”.

    • Donna—

      You are the first person I have seen mention Eden. I am curious as to how you came to mention this area? I ask because I was centered in that area for some time. There is something I feel is very important right smack in the middle of that area. lol. Please share your thoughts—I would be extremely interested to hear them. Quack quack quack.

    • No, there was no “Cody Museum”, but there was a “Buffalo Bill Museum” in Cody from 1927. From CenteroftheWest.org:
      “I was first in the Center [then just the Buffalo Bill Museum] when I was one year old. That was 1931, and my parents always stopped in on our way to Yellowstone. It was a summer pilgrimage for our family and the museum has always been a part of me. ” -quote from Forrest Fenn

  43. IMO,

    There are things that jumps out to me is some folks will shoot down a theory for the heck of it. Then there are some folks that are so hung up on their theory they won’t accept any other idea. Then there are some folks will agree with anything that is posted in different threads.
    Then there are folks that completely relate every thing to FF’s books, scrapbooks and all comments as a reasoning they all have hints and clues within. Some are helpful others not so much, the hints are within the stories (the text) of TTOTC (I’ve read over and over) and possibly TFTW, which I haven’t read. I’ve read OUAW

    My point being, If someone posts the correct answer to each of the 8 clues, folks would automatically toss it to the side. Forrest is telling us to hurry up and retrieve the chest, (the gist), he may very well know that some folks are very close, at least I think so. Question is why would he say something like that, when it may go on for years?

    It doesn’t hurt searchers to take a closer look at and analyze what others have posted theories, who knows there might be something in those theories might be of value. I’m not speaking of myself, but when others do post the theories are set aside quickly, two to maybe a week and it’s done.

    Its not easy at all to set biases aside, maybe those biases are getting in the way. I do set my biases aside, it is something that is important to do otherwise there is merely conjecture without any basis for reasoning. IMO

    Don’t get me wrong that I am telling folks how to do things, it merely is a suggestion and food for thought.

    Just Say’n

    • Pot calls the kettle black.

      Begin it where warm waters halt, kind of, but not really, and then go up a hill and down a “random” canyon on the other side of the continental divide. Use various ATF’s and then say “no ATF’s allowed” when they contradict.

      Nobody is shooting down a theory “for the heck of it”. I spent a lot of time following what you posted and decided, IMO, for very good reasons, IMO, that it was not a solve that made sense to me. I liked that I learned where the headwaters were, and used that idea elsewhere (bowers spring) , but that concept is not really a solid wwwh. And the million dollar highway is cool. But, that area is just not “fenny” (as SallyColorado said).

      You need to not take others criticism so personally, and then so easily invalidate their conclusions as “for the heck of it”. They don’t like your solve —- so what — it’s their loss. You don’t hear my criticisms, — so what —, that’s your loss.

      I like that you are willing to put your well thought out ideas out there, but I am disappointed that you could not take the (IMO) justifiable criticism. But, hey, who am I ….
      regards,
      mBG

      • meBigGuy,

        You completely missed the point, this had nothing to do with me and I said so. It was an overall view and you rush to judgement.

        I expected criticism and knew it was going to happen with my theory. Some how you think that I was upset that folks didn’t debate more.

        I’m glad that it sparked some ideas for you.

        • I lost count of the “I’s” and “I’ve” but you only have one “IMO”.
          So, I would say it’s about …..
          We are all biased to some degree or another and the harder anyone tries to explain the opposite, the more they are biased.
          Think about it.

  44. Hello Everyone! First time poster, long time reader :). I’d love thoughts on: “There isn’t a human trail in close proximity to where I hid the treasure” (This quote may not be exact, but I know I’ve read it in several places.)
    My thought is that there has to be at least some trail near by for Mr. Fenn to be able to walk in twice in one afternoon. Is it an animal trail, logging trail, etc? If he walked off trail, how far could he go carrying 20 or so pounds? (These are the questions that bounce around in my head).
    Thank you in advance for any ideas.

    • Jend—Of course. That’s because it’s an alien trail not a human trail. Only THEY know where the darn thing is hidden. That’s why we’re storming AREA 51 soon. We want answers, and the aliens have them.

    • Hi Jen,

      I think a logging trail would be considered human-made. But an animal trail could be a good way for an 80-year-old man to travel with a fairly heavy load. FF has said that people have been as close as 500 feet away from the TC. My guess is that the TC is off-trail by 500 feet. Later, he said that people had been as close as 200 feet away. Maybe a person went off-trail and followed an animal trail for 300 feet but walked right by the blaze/TC. He also mentions “brave the cold” later in the poem. So maybe you follow a stream/creek after leaving the trail…?

      • Mick,
        Thank you for your input. Def gives me more to think about.
        Much appreciated!

        • No problem! Sounds like you might have a spot on your mind…? Are you planning a BOTG trip?

          • I am! 🙂 After nine years, I’m getting out of the armchair. I’ve convinced my husband that this is a good way to celebrate out 25th wedding anniversary. He drew the line at bringing a metal detector.

      • Mick, “brave the cold” is not in the poem. It appears that you have
        rearranged some of the poem’s words, almost like anagramming — which I don’t think will help solve the poem successfully for anyone.

        I did, however, enjoy the early compilation album Big Hits (High Tide and Green Grass). As always, all part of MY opinion, not Frank Sinatra’s.

        • Tall Andrew,

          Maybe I took too many liberties with FF’s poem…

          “Your effort will be worth the cold
          if you are brave and in the wood”

          In my experience, I’ve always had to brave the cold (water) more than brave the wood. Couldn’t it mean that the creek (and it’s cold water) is in the wood…? And that the scary thing that exists in the wood is getting into that cold water…? It’s a poem after all, filled with figurative language.

          Question: Has FF said that he believes that the treasure may be wet?

    • Jenderator,

      I wouldnt spend much time thinking about this ,
      didn’t F create a trail when he made 2 trips to hide the chest?. to me that would be a human trail.

    • Jenderator.

      LOL great handle.

      In my mind… a human trail is something deliberately made for sole purpose of humans to utilize.
      The L&C trail is an excellent example of my idea.

      I don’t consider a path stomped down by a bunch of kids, or folks just hiking in the same area, at one time or another, a human trail. It’s just worn turf. Animal trails can change seasonally.
      I also don’t think a place like the continental divide is a true trail. The land feature was there long before man, and man decided to call it a trail… but there are section that man [humans] has placed signs. markers and directions for the purpose of following… for hiking and even driving the features of the CD.
      LOL that’s a bit tricky to say one way or another.

      Logic says; if fenn completed his original plan of dying at the chest’s location… he’s not going to be near any trial that his remains could easily be discovered… meaning a designated trail for the intent of human use.
      Or even a well stomped animal trial. For example; If it’s an old animal trail; known to have uses for migrating… you can bet predators follow it.
      Human remains near said trail? LOL that’s comparable to an animal drive thru.
      Lead Wolf; I’ll have #1 ~ Mcfenn burger, side of ribs and grapette, please. What do you all want for lunch, before we ketchup up with our dinner?

  45. In my opinion, from the tone set on all the blogs – and y’all may holler at me for saying this but – I think, NO BODY has any idea where to begin.

    Just croaking from my lily pad and keeping an eye out for those dang ducks…….

  46. Finally!

    [cue Ed McMahon’s ‘Sweepstakes’ voice – “You may already be a wiener!”

    • Wouldn’t you like to be a weiner too? Regarding naysayers and negativity; I depend on other people to shoot holes in my theory. A solve is incomplete if there are unanswered questions. What about this, or what if that? Of course it’s easier to take from someone you know face to face. Interesting social dynamic here with searchers in competition, yet trying to share ideas.

      • Saun,
        Outstanding perspective!
        You said what I’ve been thinking for a long time (years).
        For all of the “experts” who have commented, it is funny that not one (including myself) have found the TC. Even after almost a decade.
        We have to ask ourselves: do we want it found (no matter how) or do we just want us, as individual competitors, to find it? If it is the latter, then we will continue to beat each other up on our thoughts/solutions. If it is the former, then maybe we should collectively try by using each others solutions (teamwork).
        The former would require trust, collaboration and logistical coordination. Not sure how far we (myself included) are willing to go to ferret out the TC.
        Anyway, it seems the current methods of individual solves and BOTG’s are not working to recover the TC.
        Just my two cents.

    • Great one. Thanks for posting that.

      You can see the water is still high but I don’t know how long ago that was filmed.

      13 miles is about my limit without a pack. But it more depends on the altitude change, I think.

      • Sometimes Stan will post when the hike was but didn’t this time and I suspect it was about a week ago and yes high water and some snow drifts hanging on in mid July.
        I recommend subscribing to his channel, About a video a week in the Yellowstone area.
        Some of his hikes are over 20 miles and would say he’s over 60.
        Altitude is a big factor in all hikes.

    • do have to keep in mind , it’s where kids can go..pretty good hint , I doubt kids will hike much more then a mile. just saying.

      • MWG, in my files I have this citation: “The chest is not in a dangerous place, it’s somewhere you could take your kids.”
        Not sure that it’s a better hint than “don’t go anywhere an 80 year old man can’t go” (especially with 22-25 pounds weight on him).
        Q: “how far you walked to hide the treasure after leaving your car: was it >10miles, between 5 and 10 miles, between 1 and 5 miles, or less than 1 mile? ~Thanks, Ron
        Ron, your question sounds like a travelogue, but I’ll answer it. No, I don’t want to be that bold. But I will say that I walked less than a few miles if that will help. I just looked “few” up and one definition is “scant.” Why do I sound like I’m talking in circles? f
        As usually Forrest answered this question but it is unclear what this “less that a few miles” distance – between parking lot and final spot or the entire distance that he was walking during 4 afternoon trips.

        • Here’s a real quote from the horse’s mouth.

          “Edward, thanks for the question.
          The treasure is not hidden in a dangerous place in the normal definition of the word, realizing that there probably is no place on this planet that is safe under all conditions. Bloggers have quoted me as saying that a child could walk up to the treasure. I don’t think that’s an accurate quote because a three year old girl would have a problem without some help. Remember, I was about 80 when I hid the chest, and had to make two trips.f”

      • Hi Andy S.: not sure if it’s enough information to choose between one-way distance or two roundtrips, but we have this additional guidance:

        “In the light of recent events I feel compelled to repeat several comments. When searching please don’t get target fixation or become obsessed with your solve to the point where you ignore these fundamental guidelines. If you can’t make two trips from your car to your solve in several hours, then don’t go. Don’t search anywhere an 80-year-old man could not carry a heavy backpack.”

        I interpret that to mean that if each one-way trip will require more than an hour, then your solution is likely incorrect. (I don’t think there is a hard limit on how short the one-way travel time might be, other than if it’s too short, then there would be no need to make two trips.)

        • Zap, I completely agree with your conclusion: one-way trip should not be more than 1 hour (for young and strong searchers maybe even no more than 45 minutes).
          It is known that many people tend to walk at about 3.1 on flat surface. However, your speed on flat terrain will be considerably faster than when you encounter steep uphill or downhill sections, which may slow you to as little as 1 mph.
          Thus, if Forrest was walking trough uphill/downhill area his speed was 1 mph or even less. So, we have a distance from parking lot to the spot 1 mile or less. Of course, it is very obvious conclusion i.e. everybody knows it. Question is where this parking lot? Poem gives us very simple answer: just below of the hoB 🙂 If you know what is hoB you will easy found this parking lot, draw 1 mile circle around and find TC.

          • Hi Andy, also consider that most 80 year olds, don’t have a great sense of balance anymore, so he probably wasn’t walking in very rough terrain.

  47. I believe it’s time for me to crawl off the bed and go for a stroll to get a higher education.

    • I’m a little surprised that I have not been asked how my stroll was. I’m sure A.S. (Amy) is wondering how my stroll was. Well, I didn’t go too far. It may have been too far to walk though. I learned so much about higher education that even I could not believe how much I learned. I could hardly catch my breadth. I sat for a bit to think about what I had just learned. It was not enough so I layed down and contemplated life’s little lesson plan for me. I made a quick life changing decision then, I felt good about myself and went back to where my son was waiting for me. I filled my empty hands with my son’s head in my grasp and kissed his forehead. Next time I go for a stroll, I’ll go better prepared. I know what would help with gaining more knowledge. OO

  48. Hi all! I haven’t been here in awhile, but just noticed something of interest to those searching in and around YNP and north of, and wanted to pass it on…. Mount Holmes Fire Lookout hit on Tuesday by a lightning strike — SW of Mammoth Hot Springs, N of Madison Junction. It burned to the ground 🙁 Had been built in 1931, renovated in 1998, staffed until 2007.

    Apologies if it’s already been mentioned. Hope all are well!

  49. If YOU were going to hide something – out in the open, under everyone’s nose but wanted it to go unnoticed – where would you hide it and how would you “disguise” it?

    Any ideas y’all?

    • the where wouldn’t matter
      but i would disguise it to be so boring so when someone walked by they would just groan and roll their eyes —
      like i’d stack a bunch of stuff on it no one wants — some puzzles, maybe a book on decluttering your home, a pair of khakis, some kimchi, etc.
      it would go undistubed for years 🙂

      • Thank you DF’d – you may be correct.
        Who reads books or works puzzles anymore?
        Kinda like those historical marker signs along the highways – do you stop and read them?

      • It could backfire, if some conscientious environmentalist(s) were to
        as some kind of “personal” purpose take on the task of cleaning up that
        stuff. I have given thought to similar cleanup in the local area of my
        search, although there wasn’t much junk there.

    • I think I would camouflage it with the background or have it near a distractor of sorts so that everyone would look at the distractions vs the chest IMO.

  50. Zap – re: “in love with MT” and not WY…

    I presuppose (in the truest form of linguistics) that you’re ignoring one or two things. But then again maybe your undisclosed first stanza basis of wwwh is the most compelling of any aha moment since brown bread and fawn colored cows, and maybe you think the way I deep-think is overly complicated. Nevertheless…

    The following disclosures have allusion references to I-80 across WY:
    – almost eighty (funny I said it that way, and the Old Oregon Trail next to and including I-80)… I mean… doesn’t this just seal the deal?
    – No? how about a really big deal (“The Gangplank”, where “deal” = “board”, “joy, smile” = “beam” and Henry B. Joy)
    – Or, if you prefer circular references, T.S. Eliot atf references (T.C. Elliott attributed for etymon of Oregon)
    – Eric Sloane (“seeing the elephant” phrase with “slon”)
    – bald like Eisenhower (bald is the etymon of bold, Eisenhower worked and is the Lincoln Highway)
    – a Rawlings Pro 5 lace-up in SB100 (Rawlins)
    – Mike Kammerer in SB83 (Kemmerer)
    – Six mentions of nickels in TTOTC (Tom Horn/Willie Nickel)
    – Macy’s penguins in Mary Mary “Mz” Contrary @ MW (Little America, “Emperor” penguin in a glass case)
    – J.C. “Penny” sheets in SB109, (Kemmerer, Lincoln Highway)
    – Bill Nye the telephone guy in SB107 (Telephone Canyon, Nye to Warren and rabbit holes)
    – Purple Heart in My War For Me (Purple Heart Trail)
    – the Ho Chi Minh Trail in My War for Me (the Snow Chi Minh Trail)

    This is just off the top of my head, and there’s still so much more! I mean, you decide to ignore if you want… but should you?

    • Hi E.C.: “I presuppose (in the truest form of linguistics) that you’re ignoring one or two things.”

      I’m sure it’s a lot more than one or two! We all perform some degree of triage when deciding what’s important and what isn’t.

      “But then again maybe your undisclosed first stanza basis of wwwh is the most compelling of any aha moment since brown bread and fawn colored cows…”

      I’d simply say compelling enough for *me* to ignore all other possibilities, and cemented by the statistical improbability of the alignment of the third clue to the WWWH geographical location.

      “… and maybe you think the way I deep-think is overly complicated.”

      Sure, but it’s just my opinion (and what do I know?), but I suppose I’m partly influenced by Forrest’s occasional mentions of “I am a very simple person.” Nevertheless, I’m still fascinated by the tangents of tangents that both you and Lisa Cesari/E* have constructed over the years and have found them quite educational!

      You name many allusory connections to I-80 (the main east-west interstate that crosses southern Wyoming), and I’m betting I could find quite a few more that you haven’t named above. But since you were once quite focused on a similarly large number of tie-ins to Seven Falls near the Broadmoor in Colorado Springs, wouldn’t you conclude that you might be unusually skilled at finding such connections? I am similarly predisposed (though perhaps not to the same degree), which I recognize as a dangerous trait when it comes to confirmation bias. A John Nash type is at a tremendous disadvantage, in my opinion, because when presented with something seemingly vague like Forrest’s poem, they will find dozens of connections with any dart throw starting point.

      • Zap – I think that to have any longevity in this puzzle, one must be able to change and adapt. Seven Falls was an interesting place for a bit. So was Yellowstone and Dot Island. I shared this thinking with others whom I thought might be able to relate to the thought process. After having been out so many times, I’ve resolved myself not to go back out unless I can decipher what is intended, and so far I cannot.

        But I am absolutely convinced of his word patterns relating to some form of a cipher because he seems like he relies on poem synonyms in so many of his responses and posts. This is why you see my processing through what looks like apophenia. It’s an attempt to relate these synonyms and allusions to a map, adapting and moving on. At the moment, I’m testing an approach of a book cipher with Catcher in the Rye as the key. If it turns out to not be worthwhile, I’ll adapt and move on.

      • Hi E.C.: “Zap – I think that to have any longevity in this puzzle, one must be able to change and adapt.”

        Quite agree, to a point. If WWWH is truly solvable with a high degree of confidence (i.e. “nailed down”), then I would see no reason to abandon it (once solved) just for the sake of flexibility/adaptation. But of course that’s the problem with Forrest’s puzzle: you never get any confirmation of having solved N # of clues unless N=9.

        “After having been out so many times, I’ve resolved myself not to go back out unless I can decipher what is intended, and so far I cannot.”

        Well, each time I’ve gone out, I ~thought~ I had deciphered everything. (I don’t put BOTG without end-to-end solutions.) I live too far away to invest resources in partial solutions.

        “But I am absolutely convinced of his word patterns relating to some form of a cipher because he seems like he relies on poem synonyms in so many of his responses and posts.”

        I agree. I think the poem includes ~modestly~ encoded information.

        “At the moment, I’m testing an approach of a book cipher with Catcher in the Rye as the key. If it turns out to not be worthwhile, I’ll adapt and move on.”

        I think Catcher has undeniable elements that align with Fenn’s writings. Last year I sifted through the first 20 chapters and found dozens of Fenn tie-ins before moving on to other things.

  51. Just curious, if the chest were hidden in water, how would the elements of the water effect the color of the chest and what color would the chest be after all of the years in the water? I have read that bronze when exposed to water can turn green or black.

    • Paul-
      Forrest has stated in the Safety First post on this very blog that the chest is not under water:
      https://dalneitzel.com/2017/06/29/safety_first/

      However, he also stated in the New Mexico Tourism video referenced above that he knows the chest is wet.

      When bronze oxidizes it turns bluish-green. Think all those bronze statues in city parks and around WA DC. They have turned a bluish-green from exposure to rain and air. In some spots the bronze may also turn grey or black from dirt staining mixed with the oxidation.But generally the bronze turns bluish-green.

      • Thank you. I was just trying to eliminate a theory and your explanation has helped me do exactly that.

  52. You know, you can cut a ball of yarn anywhere and have a new beginning and a new end.
    Just saying…..

    • wwwamericana,

      Theoretically yes, BUT, if the ball of yarn has burnt up then there’s nothing left to cut.

      Reminds me of the old saying:
      Q: Does a Bear sh*t in the woods?
      A: Not if it’s in a zoo!

      My post will probably be disabled…but it’s not the end of the world….yet!

      Ya know something, I only wrote to Forrest twice and he wrote me back on my second try! Needless to say, my first one was only 275 pages long!

      I think Forrest got tired of Andy Dufresne emailing him ONCE a week for a new library. So I think I’ll email him TWICE a week now! SHAWSHANK!!

      ByGeorge

      • ByGeorge – I have Faith that he will answer, sometimes it is not in the way we expect it , but he will. Just keep writing those letters and singing those songs and sure as the moon rises, you’ll have yourself a nice library. (Maybe shorten them a bit as I’m sure Mr. Fenn tires easily these days.)

        As for your post – I’m sure it will stand as a testament of perseverance.

        Not sure how to respond about your yarn burning up – Yarns are very flamable. Perhaps we should switch to sinew?

        • wwwamericana,

          Sinew?
          As us Germans would say GESUNDHEIT!
          Or others would say…Bless You!

          ByGeorge

  53. Good morning everyone!

    I am hoping someone can help me out. I seem to remember a scrapbook with a photo of something carved in a tree by Forrest. I may be wrong but that’s what I think I remember. Does anyone know or remember what scrapbook that was?

    Thanks in advance!

    TimM

      • Thanks JDA!

        That’s the one I was thinking of. For some reason, all i remembered was the pictures of the trees.

        TimM

    • TimW-
      There is a list with short descriptions of the scrapbooks on the index page for Forrest’s Scrapbooks..
      If you open that list you can read quickly a short synopsis of each scrapbook which is a good way to search what you are looking for..
      I believe I saw a description for the scrapbook you are looking for on that list..

      • Hey Dal – I clicked on Forrest’s Scrapbooks and saw the header for the index page but it didn’t allow me to click on it. What am I missing?

        • Hi Spoon;

          On my computer – it said to click “Here” – took me right to it – JDA

        • Spoon-
          Look at the second paragraph from the top…
          Looks like this:
          Click on the “HERE”

          If you would like to have a more informational index to the scrapbooks with descriptions of the content of each scrapbook, Blex has provided just the ticket. It is current through SB198. Click HERE to open or save (if you prefer) the .PDF document.

      • Thanks Dal! I was reading them individually… that’s time consuming but very enlightening!

        TimM

    • Tim do you think these carvings have anything to do with the search or the “Blaze”?

      • Travis,

        I don’t think anything at this point. I just came across something while researching stuff and the trees popped in my mind. As for the blaze, I can’t imagine the blaze is carved on a tree because it won’t last 1000 years, but that’s just my opinion.

        TimM

        • I agree. But there may be a little tease/hint relating to a big “F” shape on the ground kinda near a place I think is the correct searching area . . . ya know, the place I think of when I think of
          pies. As always, in my opinion.

  54. Don’t y’all wish Forrest had put an index in the back of his books?
    Indexes, though, are generally only placed in books that are non-fiction reference type books.
    Just thought I would point that out.

    • I scanned mine into a text file within 45 minutes of receiving it. It saved me about 45 hours of flipping pages.

    • Yes indeed Americana…but I wish more that Forrest would simply come back and play once in a while. It was definitely more fun anticipating his next move, next words.

      The “hole” is much deeper than I believed. I could use a hand up and out of the hole, before I get stung by the bee. Anyone notice the poem’s song benny and the bee? And how about the “Viet hemp/pot trees” in the poem’s nw montana quadrant?

      Yes, I do need help out of the hole;-)

      • 42 – wish I could help but I find myself stuck in a hole also. Kinda like a piece of aged Swiss cheese, isn’t it?

        “Never give up” as they say – now where is that dang ladder…..

    • Josh,
      Welcome to the HoD! You’ll find plenty of information and plenty of knowledgeable people as well. Good luck and if you can afford it, get TTOTC for additional hints for your 1st BOTG! An easy and enjoyable read.

      Happy hunting and as JDA would say…STAY SAFE!!

      ByGeorge

  55. A humble reminder to us all.

    Success consists of going from failure to failure without the loss of enthusiasm.

    -Winston Churchill

    Easier said than done….but we can aspire! Vamonos!

    • Indeed! Give me Failure, it will make my story so much better when success finally happens!!

    • LaCubana – Wow. Great quote! And there are no coincidences. I was on the lawn this evening, outside the Sun Valley Pavilion, watching Andrew Roberts talk about his latest biography about Churchill:

      https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/38470102-churchill#

      And Lee Pollock, the Executive Director of the Churchill Center in the U.S., spoke here at the Community Library this past Tuesday.

      My summation:

      Winston Churchill failed a whole lot. And he almost died many, many times in his life. And he was a very passionate man and an eloquent communicator, who made frequent use of Old English words in straight forward sentences. And he was also hugely successful in saving England during World War II.

      Hmmmm. Sound like anyone else we all know? Maybe facing failure successfully is key to becoming who we are destined to be? And maybe doing that is also key to finding the bronze chest? I hope so.

      • When you talk about destiny, it begs the question: Should we strive to be
        who we are destined to be, or just relax and let destiny take its course?

        Please don’t get me started about religion, spirituality, etc. All IMO.

        • Destiny in the past tense will always be what you’ve accomplished. There is no other way, it’s what you were destined to do. But in the present tense, I believe destiny can be altered, an apparent path taken or avoided, an action that can be cognitively enhanced based upon will and desire.

          • Then maybe it’s not destiny. If we have free will, then the concept of destiny seems like quite a fiction, huh?

            OH!, I should say something about the treasure hunt. Before this summer is over, I expect to carefully examine a “human-made” pile of stones that I have seen. If I don’t find the TC there, then shortly afterward I expect to be carefully examining a “human-made” pile of other material (not stones) that is within a few miles of the pile of stones. As always, IMO.

    • Disappointed but not defeated is my motto!

      Not super proud of it but it is what it is.

      ByGeorge

    • A reminder to self and anyone whose listening–
      How do we deal with failure?
      Fail–to fall short of success;
      To receive less than a passing grade.
      Where to begin? A brief timeline-
      3 years ago I began this particular quest. During that time frame, I’ve failed many times, lol at myself. Who can relate?
      There is such a fine line between success and failure, however we define it, and however we apply that concept to the poem, or other aspects of our lives.
      How do we measure it? The lessons I’ve learned from the poem will last with me forever, as I hope to share them with family, friends, and those I come in contact with. And at times I fail, and at times, I have to remind myself to smile in the face of adversity, lol. Easier said than done.
      Each single one of us can relate to life’s failures, and through those trials, hopefully, we become better versions of ourselves.
      I humbly offer this post now. Better to offer it in the midst of my last setback.
      T.S. But once down, I tend to get up rather quickly, and so I believe it’s just about time to stick a fork in it!

      • Hi Soulstice,

        I started this chase over six years ago and I have had no success 16 times (+/- because I lost count).

        I don’t consider any of that effort part of a failure. I will not have failed until somebody else finds the treasure or I quit.

        What I discovered is that I have to see the landscape and hike it to understand it. It is on the trip home or the few days after getting home that I get my best ideas.

        Good luck on your next trip.

        • Hi Muset,
          After reading your post, I reflected on my use of the word failure. Perhaps a harsh word choice, but I was reflecting on the dichotomy between success and failure, how we each measure such words, and the grey in between? I was also contemplating the prior posts, see above.
          You’ve gone16 times, and I’ve gone more than that (also having lost count), as I too consider that effort largely a success, irrespective of outcome. But I believe l’m fine with using the word failure in the context offered, I will give it more thought.
          You also used the phrase, “I will not have failed until somebody else finds the treasure or I quit.” I disagree with that statement. I’m proud of all of us for having tried, lol, irrespective of outcome, and sometimes better for some to walk away, individual choices, not knowing the reasons, take Seeker for example?
          Thank you for the good luck, to you as well. I wonder what the odds are that one of us finds the t.c. next botg?

          • I agree with all what you wrote there. I wasn’t trying to be too philosophical.

            I think the odds go up each time but my confidence goes down.

        • Muset,
          I started back in 2014 and have been out about as many times as you have.
          I, too, have found that you have to spend time in the area to learn how to see.
          My first BOTG at this location (which is my second and final location) was overwhelming.
          I felt like I was suffering from sensory overload.
          There is just soooo much to see.
          Polarized lenses help.
          I feel so strongly about spending time on site that I went back to my first spot at this location, knowing that it wasn’t there, just so I could walk around, saying the poem in my head, and asking FF (also in my head) why it wasn’t there.
          And I admit to having used a few swear words, on occasion, when “asking.”
          It’s the “why not” questions that lead to the “what if” questions, which, in turn, can lead to answers (yes, double entendre).
          Also, like you, I have epiphanies on the way home or within a few days of arriving home.
          The best ones have always come to me at night.
          Good luck with your search.

        • Buy a drone. Get a birds eye view of your search areas. I use mine every time I go out

          • I can barely make my bluetooth speaker work and the last time I took a picture it turned out to be my finger over the lens.

  56. Yup!
    About half way through the search season and no takers.
    Tick Tock. . . . . . .

    • Knee injury shortens this trip!!

      Hopefully not out for the rest of the season. Things out there are still slippery. Be careful out there folks

        • Thank you JDA, it made for a long hard hike back to the truck, the biting flies and mosquitos made it even worse.

          • Maybe you should have organized the mosquitos and biting flies and had them carry you back to the truck – You see it in cartoons all the time 🙂 JDA

      • Another injury?
        Better than a car wreck.
        I hyperextended my knee near Taylor Creek back in 2016 and took about 6 months to feel normal.

  57. Bananas are berries?

    They are derived from a single flower with more than one ovary, making them an aggregate fruit. True berries are simple fruits stemming from one flower with one ovary and typically have several seeds. Tomatoes fall into this group, as do pomegranates, kiwis and—believe it or not—bananas.

  58. Hello all!
    Someone posed a good question that I haven’t put much thought into related to this quote that I borrowed from Jenny’s site over at Mysterious Writings:
    *If you have a searching partner, best to have them wait in the car. f
    Why would you have your search partner wait in the car?
    Logic tells us that –
    A- it can’t be too far from a road or pull out where you can park
    B- it is not in a place that is dangerous and can be navigated solo.(although, myself, I always have a search buddy for safety’s sake)
    Is this some place that you should go alone into?
    Forrest did, but this is a place that he knew well. This brings up that whole “in there” line of the poem also. we know it’s not in a man made structure ,tunnel or mine. Did f ever rule out caves? You can go into a forest, you can go in a canyon , into a lake or wide crevice and you can definitely go cuckoo If you think about it too long.
    Thoughts on this?

    • Hi Veronica S:

      And yet:

      “Don’t go into the mountains alone. Two searchers together is an absolute minimum, but three or even four is better. Stay within eyesight of each other. A whistle can be valuable if you get separated.” — MW Featured Question (6/16/2017)

      So why are we having that partner wait in the car? Mysterious…

      • Dittos Zaph.
        Since. I don’t browse other sites, I can’t imagine someone saying to
        leave a search partner in a car.
        ZAPH is RIGHT on his words.

      • Exactly, zaphod. I have looked past this so many times . I wonder if there is anything to it?

      • So your car doesn’t get ticketed, towed, stolen? Bears may not be the problem. Just another option.

      • The best theory I’ve read online to explain the seeming contradiction between leaving your partner in the car and yet never “going into the mountains alone” is that Forrest deceptively misspelled “carr.” A carr is a water-logged wooded terrain — literally a “forest fen.” If the treasure is nearby such a feature (and such riparian areas are often found adjacent to rivers, streams and creeks), then perhaps both you AND your partner(s) are “in the carr”. Contradiction resolved!

        • Zap – Excellent! And so true for my solve. We were both in the ‘carr’, at Baker’S Hole, but my fly fishing librarian was watching my back from the marshy willows at the shore perimeter, while I was ‘in the wood’ at my hide-y spot, which was more of a grassy meadow.

        • Zap, interesting point about his name…particularly when, if I’m not mistaken, you consider the fact that FF is, and Skippy was, Leo…a fire sign, whereas June and their mom and dad were all water signs…Cancer, Pisces, and Scorpio, respectively…correct me if I’m wrong…

      • I think at least two searchers is the general rule for the sake of safety and I don’t think for a second that fenn is implying that the end game is a one man job. In my opinion there is a major hint in the “wait in the car” phrase. And I believe that hint has been delivered in the form of satirical innuendo.

        • Double a;

          You say, ” I don’t think for a second that fenn is implying that the end game is a one man job.” – What do you think the words – “As I have gone alone in there…” mean? Just curious – JDA

          • Fenn went alone because it’s his secret and beyond that I think that sentence helps to unlock different aspects of the solve. But no, I repeat that I do not think the end game can only be completed by one searcher as opposed to 2 or more. Unless he uses some booby traps or the invisible steps like In the end of Indy and the last crusade, I believe the treasure location to be accessible by more than one searcher at a time.

          • I think you have to look at it this way. If there is only room for one “in there” then it could be considered a small cave and should be ruled out.

            If the entrance is restricted where only one person can fit in but the top is open, then it’s not a cave but still questionable to me.

            If the entrance is restricted where there is only a narrow walkway then it may be a dangerous place.

            Even if the way in there is narrow (which I don’t think it is) you could still single file people through one at a time.

            Not buying any of it.
            He went in his bathing spot alone and could fit a few more soakers and the spot where the chest is probably similar.

        • Double- what you stated above is the way I have always taken the car comment as well.

        • If it’s not in the poem, I’m not going to assume there’s a “major
          hint” in this, regardless of satirical innuendo theories.

          • That’s one way to look at it. But I choose to believe that not only did fenn leave us a poem and a book but as well a plethora of hint laden comments designed to help guide one to victory.

          • Tall Andrew, I agree with Double a’s reply to you. I encourage you to keep your mind open to the ATF’s.
            I have been careful to ignore them in unlocking the poem and only consider them to confirm/refute my analysis. The problem is a lot of the ATFs — IMO –are in Fenn-speak and are subject to interpretation. There have been ATFs that, when made, didn’t mean much of anything to me but further analysis of the poem has caused me to look back at some of those ATFs and consider them to be hints. In other words, I have found that where I am in my analysis of the poem provides context for analyzing the ATFs.

    • FF said “car”. I believe he is telling us that the start of the BOTG is from a parking area which can be accessed by car……..not truck, jeep, razor,buggy, etc.
      FF is a person who chooses his words carefully. This tells me the parking area/lot is a relatively easy place to get to, not some far off remote place where only a high clearance 4×4 would be needed, a car would be fine.
      As always, IMO.

      • For all we know, Forrest left the treasure on his own private property, or national forest property accessible only thru someone else’s property. Heck it could in a KOA campground that he owns left underneath his dad’s old airstream trailer.

        The possibilities are endless and his poem leads to many of ff’s residences he’s owned in the past, including one on a golf course in Texas. In his heyday, ff must have flown his private jet to Dallas and likely sat with Murchison in the owners box at Dallas Cowboy games, played golf, and sold art to wealthy Texans.

        The poem also leads to oil wells and ore. Not sure why, other than he spent 10 years crafting his
        TOME (to-me) of life’s work and had fun including many things.

        • 42, What makes you think the poem leads us to “oil wells”?
          Heavy loads?

          • Hello Jake, perhaps I’ve been inside that “thing” he calls a poem for too long. Geographically ONE of the places the poem leads is a private preserve that is not a reservation, but still used by Indians for ceremonies. The owner put it in a private ‘chet’ so the land can’t be further disturbed by they oil industry, and can be used in perpetuity by native Americans. The owner tied up oil rites surrounding the property. I believe Forrest purchased the area and placed it in preservation. The treasure trove is no where near since the location is outside of the Rocky Mountains. But the area would be considered rocky mounds.
            Here’s the loose end to figure out, why would ff even include this in his poem?

            Any ideas

          • 42;

            You say, “Geographically ONE of the places the poem leads is a private preserve that is not a reservation, but still used by Indians for ceremonies.”

            You are stating this as a FACT, 42. Can you show me, where IN THE POEM or elsewhere where Forrest has said this? If you can not – next time please indicate that that information is your OPINION, not FACT – Thanks – JDA

          • Jake, the ore loads are in Colorado, and 2 mines with interesting names are inside the poem with ‘word’ maps to locating them. I’m not inclined to research the mineral rites. They are nearly always listed under mining corp. names, so no way to tie to ff.

            As I mentioned earlier, my guess is that he spent many hours working on a his “to me” tome including his life’s work, people, haunts, cars, mines, investments, etc. He definitely included addresses or geo descriptions of homes he’s owned from Santa Fe to Montana; and a reference to Real estate Brokerage.

            All that said, even if I’m 90% certain correct about ff’s inclusions, none of it will help anyone find his collections of gold in the box.

      • MW Featured Question (6/17/2016): “Dear Forrest, may I ask what type of car you used to go into the mountains to hide the Treasure Chest. ~ Bill”

        FF: “Yes Bill, it was a sedan. f”

        “Sedan” can mean many things, but I don’t think an off-road or all-terrain vehicle is indicated. Seems to me it’s a place that a simple pickup truck can get to. From Everthing is Stories EIS Radio (8/8/2013):

        “You know, there’s a lady writer from Austin asked me, ‘Mr. Fenn, who’s your audience for this book?’ I said, ‘My audience is every redneck in Texas with a pickup truck and 12 kids. He’s lost his job and has the thrill to go out and look for things.’ I said, ‘That’s my audience.’ Throw a bedroll in the back of your truck, get a six pack, and hit the road looking for a fortune! I mean, it’s the thrill of the chase. That’s what we’re talking about. Take your wife. Put all the kids in the back of the truck and head out!”

        • Hi Zap, thanks for this post!
          Sometimes Forrest’s answers are very funny 🙂 Indeed, maybe he just suggested an idea that too may searchers become too serious about the chase – they are making very complicate calculations, “Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers” i.e. “overrate the complexity of the search”. In simple words they lost main idea of the chase – to have fun and unforgettable adventure for you and your family. Forrest just said: don’t forget that this chase was created to have fun/adventures. His advises are very simple: get a six pack and hit the road looking for a fortune!

  59. No worries JDA.

    ALL OF MY INFO. IS MY OPINION.
    I figured that was a ‘given’ after all these years of everyone starting everything they say with “IMO”

    And I’m not planning to send any of my info to dal to post. I work with maps, and google earth, and in spite of Fenn stating google earth is a helpful tool, many would slaughter my ideas found in “plane” plain site – both in the ink of the poem and in an eagle’s gaze.

  60. JDA, allow me to clarify for you… I use the poem in grid format, justified both left and right. It’s the only way I know to use it as a map and mary the words to a place.

    A S I H A V E G O N E
    X
    A N D W I T H M Y T R

    JDA, IN MY OPINION…here’s the FIRST CLUE that no one but me has either noticed or mentioned for all to use. HI WA gives you the correct HI WAY to follow.

    • In grid format with all spaces removed. HI and WA are exactly above & below each other.

      • Hi 42;

        I guess I am dumb, but I can not see where an H is directly above an “I” using you left justification. I did not do it for the entire poem – just the first two lines. If it is for the first clue is one to use only stanza #1?

        What you create with the entire poem is a “Word Search” kind of puzzle, and almost anything could magically appear. You say justify both left and right. Because the lines are of different length when do you know to justify left and when to justify right, until you get the words you are looking for?

        All seems a bit more complicated than the “Redneck from Texas with 12 kids” would come up with – But if it makes you happy – Good luck with it. Just not for me –

        Can you show me where the H and I align and the W and A align

        and Highway is not spelled HI WA – Seems like a leap in faith to me

        JDA

        • HI JDA,
          I also question 42’s process in solving the poem. But I’m most interested in your use of the expression, “seems like a leap of faith to me”…. Yet, correct me if I’m wrong, it’s not being offered in the most positive light? So, I’m here to defend a “leap of faith” solve, both in a semi-humorous way, and in a dead serious manner, no disrespect intended.
          During my time with the TTOTC, I’ve read or watched multiple rather imaginative solves, but i wonder if mine is the most unorthodox, leap of faith, cake topper of them all? I initially chose my search area without relying on the books, the poem, any maps, or other sources to which the community has relied. I believe it to be more obscure than seeker’s observational approach.
          Rather crazy, huh?Especially given my nature. Without explaining my initial theory (which would give too much away), is it possible that the leap of faith you described above will prevail? Kevin Bacon and my 5th grade teacher would be oh so proud of me, imo-lol.
          I’m not suggesting the solve to be religious, but I’m wondering about peoples’ faith in things, and how its played its part?

      • 42, Forrest already gave us the HWY, in an ATF he said it was at 66,000 Links which convert to 8.25 miles and the backward bike analogy is HWY US 285, the most directly northern root/HWY into the the teeth of the Rockies from Santa Fe, NM. Follow it up to Mt Elbert, highest pinnacle in the Rockies, 10 miles from Leadville, Co where a very famous Brown lived…

        TT

    • 42: except that they are also criss-crossed. A bit contrived, given that through similar means you can generate SAND, WAVE, HIVE, WIVE, WAIT, WHAT, WHITE, and so on. How to choose what’s intended? Personally I find the two incidences of HORN in the first stanza (one horizontal, one vertical) to be more compelling.

      • Good catch Zap! Some will say Little Big Horn, some will say horn of plenty, the problem remains one of Longitude and Latitude, now IMO and after 9 years, I think the longitude is 106, it only makes sense since ff bailed out and was rescued at the 106 degree longitude (EAST HEMISPHERE) in Laos, also Leadville, CO home of Molly B. is at the exact 106.3141 longitude if the last four digits do not make sense then look at his old home address in Temple TX 1413 NORTH MAIN….Longitudes are Main’s in navigation so the math does not lie, How man times did his old home wind up in a BLAZE….Found 2 in History of ff in Temple, we are only limited our perception/imagination right,,,,? SO, which borders on the latitude of our horizons…The answer is in the numbers IMHO. Find the blaze and find the TC.

        TT

        • Who went back and dug up OLD Toys that last forever in Too Far Book? Found the Blaze, 3141 North Main. Look at “Jungle Wisdom” same book, was it page or chapter 106? Why it was the longitude, stupid, me, what took me so long to see this? No Hints in which book? THAT IS TOO FAR fetched for me to see a coincidence?

          ZAP? Seeker is not gonna save me from myself here…

          TT

        • Hi TT: “Some will say Little Big Horn, some will say horn of plenty…”
          For my solution it’s neither of those, and both horns matter, which dovetails well with the Buffalo Cowboys chapter in TTOTC:

          “Big buffalo bulls have no enemies so it was easy to slip up behind a tree and throw a loop, which landed on Cody’s head and wrapped around both horns.”

          and

          “Cody didn’t even know what had happened and just kept on eating, so Skippy honked the horn a few times, and that didn’t matter either.”

          “… the problem remains one of Longitude and Latitude…”

          Ultimately, yes, but there is no guarantee that Forrest provided precise coordinates in the poem. Even if he did, he certainly wouldn’t have given the coordinates of the treasure’s location — that would be a clear shortcut that bypassed all the preceding clues.

          “… now IMO and after 9 years, I think the longitude is 106, it only makes sense since ff bailed out and was rescued at the 106 degree longitude (EAST HEMISPHERE) in Laos…”

          Problematic, since that Laos information is not found in the poem.

          ” … also Leadville, CO home of Molly B. is at the exact 106.3141 longitude if the last four digits do not make sense then look at his old home address in Temple TX 1413 NORTH MAIN…”

          Longitude 106.3141 W does not go through Leadville. It is outside the city limits by a few thousand feet. The center of town is closer to 106.293, so the relevance of your .3141 (pi) or reversed Fenn address is kind of lost.

          I’ve never been a fan of the Molly Brown idea any more than I am of brown trout or Joseph Meek having Chase relevance. Too obvious and/or smacks of specialized knowledge. Forrest has never said a knowledge of history would be helpful or necessary for solving the clues — even when specifically asked that question:

          Jon Lackman interview (May 2015) from Dal’s Scrapbook 167: “I’ve also read that you wrote the treasure hunt for an unemployed redneck with 12 kids. Does this mean that all of those people who are delving into Native American history, Greek mythology etc. are looking too deeply? Can hunters really get to the treasure location with just a good map, the poem, and a decent knowledge of words?”

          FF: “I wrote the book for everyone who feels a sense of wanderlust. In your last question if you change the last word to geography, my answer would be yes.”

          So in addition to leaving out history as an essential element for success, he specifically struck “a decent knowledge of words” in favor of geography.

          • Zap,

            I zoomed in on the 106.3141 W coordinate and it looks like it passes through the SW corner of St Joseph Cemetery in Leadville. It occurred to me that either Molly Brown might have been buried there or there was a monument to her, but I struck out in both regards. In any case,this doesn’t rule out Leadville as home of Brown IMO. But could this refer to a latitude position along this meridian, except to the south as in “below”. Just wondering.

            McK

          • Zap said…”Forrest has never said a knowledge of history would be helpful”…

            F has neither said that a knowledge of history wouldn’t be helpful.

          • Fundamental… It seems that Fenn did not verbally rule out [history]… however… he does directly answer the last question in that exchange which explicitly mentions a good map, the poem, and a decent knowledge of words[ change to geography]. I suppose learning some history about the potential area may be interesting and/or useful…but it seems that Fenn is indicating that it is not necessary.

          • Ken, yep…I didn’t mention anything about it being necessary.

            Plenty of history involved in geography.

            Plenty of history involved with the poem considering it’s coming up on a decade of the tc not being found.

    • I don’t see this HI WA and don’t see how it could be HI WAY unless you add the Y which would be messing with the poem and if there are any clues in the poem to be deciphered, it would only be the 1st WWWH and not any other because if you figured out any cryptic later clues that would certainly be shortcut.
      I think you are reading the poem incorrectly.

  61. Perhaps this will help someone get closer to their goal. At 6 years and a lot of work, I’m happy to pass on methods that I believe Forrest hoped we would use to solve his poem. It’s a complicated puzzle, but not unsolvable.

    1. Find the right Hi Wa. Highways have numbers. Where do you get No.’s?
    2. Convert A-1, B-2, C-3… (no cipher, just kids play) gives you numbers to work with.
    3. “Just” is in the poem 2ce. Justify left for generalized mapping.
    4. Justify right for tight focus mapping.
    5. Lines 11 & 12 (justified right & left) give the words Pay load. Pay load is on the DDDD’s.

    • I think you didn’t read the part that said don’t over complicate. N,O,ways. Wish ya luck with that. IMO.

  62. JAKE! don’t slide off your horse when you yell Woa! LOL

    Does anyone have a link to major bronze art installments that Forrest supervised.
    Just guessing there’s a few around Texas that I’ve seen.

    • Thanks Sally, I was just in your state earlier this month. Enjoyed Rocky Mountain National Park and Denver 🙂

  63. NBC News has a video news clip of 9 year old girl from Florida getting tossed by a bison in YSPark near Old Faithful. She was part of a large group that clearly were way too close to the bison in the area. Be smart and safe out there folks. Good luck…

  64. I just said my bye-byes but for some reason had a final thought cross my mind that I thought I’d toss out for all to chew on, that I’ve never seen mentioned on any of these pages and pages of scrapbooks, commentary and theories. Maybe that’s why I wanted to put it out there, in case no one else ever saw it. Most probably isn’t useful to anyone, but I found it curious and maybe it will help someone else.

    Um… looking in my read-and-re-read copy of TTOC for the page… okay, got it. There’s a photo captioned “Peggy & Forrest at Fenn Galleries, LTD” on page 104, at the beginning of the chapter “Blue Jeans and Hush Puppies Again” they are standing on either side of a painting of what appears to be a lovely Spanish miss with a lace mantilla and holding a lute or guitar. Has anyone ever turned the page upside-down? Pretty interesting. Just sayin’.

    Regards.

    • Hey SD, what is it that you see? Just curious because I don’t have my book on me. About to catch a flight to head out BOTG.

      • Well, I’ve got a probably too-good imagination sometimes, but it looks like the Joker to me. Never having been a Marvel Comics fan, nor having watched any of the movies that I can remember, I had to look up who the Joker was — only knew he was one of Batman’s foes from my brother watching Batman on TV after school when I was growing up, lol. Do remember “biff” “bam” “pow” in those bubbles every time there was a fight, lol. Interesting character, the Joker.

        But may be just a rabbit hole. I seem to be very skilled at stumbling in ’em. Your experience may vary. s

    • SD: even more interesting to you (and us) should be that he altered the background painting in that picture when he put it in OUAW. Not only that, the original picture was black and white, but the replaced painting in the picture in OUAW is in color.

  65. Here’s what I have come up with. Forrest Fenn is a fly fishermen that lives in Santa Fe and he puts fishing petroglyphs all over the covers of his books. Area should be somewhere you can go fishing? Forest has said that the first clue is the key and that you should look at the hole pitcher. The poem is on a map of “the rocky mountains”..but its not a map of the rocky mountains, its a map of the continental divide” after everything just add I am probably wrong”. Forest has said that it is not in close proximity to a man made trail. Or there is a trail that is not close “but there’s a trail in the area”. I remember a interview where ff said that he heard a train and smelled pinon pine the day he hid it? That would rule out 2 and one half states. So fishing, something to do with petroglyphs on his map. There’s a trail somewhere around the area “maybe the continental divide trail?”. Then I thought about heavy loads and water high and imagined that the hole poem is about a float trip down a river . If you take water high literally,like when you get back to the truck after wandering around all day and have that first drink out of the ice chest water” that would be a water high after loading everything back on the truck . Then theres Up the creek shuttle service. And the screaming left rapid. Also 2 put in below the home of brown.

    • Can you or anyone else verify the interview which FF said he heard a train the day he hid the TC?……..and did he hear it when hiding the TC or on the way to his spot?
      I’ve been in the search for almost 10 years and this is the first I’ve read or heard of this.
      Thanks.

      • I have been a searcher same time frame and never hear this before either. Another statement that he allegedly made as not associated with death or a dead person cannot verify that statement from FF either, other than not in a graveyard.

    • king- in fact there is indeed a fly fishing exhibit at the Draper Museum of Natural History. very observant of you mr. king.

      i think.

  66. One of these days I’ll figure out how to post on this site. Sorry if this is off topic, but I tried posting it on an old thread on Homophones but it didn’t take. So, risking off topic discussion, I’m using this thread for a similar topic. Be advised I’m gonna talk Homonym here, not homophone.
    A couple weeks ago our dearly departed Seeker had an interesting interpretation of “Take it in” like “Taking in the view.” Made me think about thoughts I’ve had on the next piece of it; “the canyon down”.
    As an old timey cold water trout fisherman, I have often been privy to a beautiful early morning mist hanging over a tail water canyon. To me it looked very much like a “down” blanket covering the canyon. So… I gotta wonder if FF may have decided to call this phenomena “canyon down”?
    Second, how about the cotton “down” that comes from cottonwoods that typically line mountain streams. I’ve seen “cotton” coming down so thick it looked almost like snow!

    Hokie

    • I still think it is a canyon full of feathers, but I like your mist == down. I have always liked trying to fit a noun to down.

    • Interesting video even if you don’t “sprechen”.
      I learned that ‘Schatzkarte’ means treasure map.

  67. How about this one , west of Cody Wyoming on hwy 14 just before you reach Buffalo Bill Dam , you are driving in a canyon ,,, you are literally driving IN a canyon . TAKE IT IN the canyon down . what do ya`ll think ?

    • Are you suggesting IT = your sedan, JPE?

      On hwy 14 from Cody west to the dam, are you driving up or down the canyon?

      In the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe, I’m not sure “driving in a canyon” (whether up or down) really narrows things down very much. In any case, all still depends on where you begin.

      Why Cody?

  68. J A , sorry , i didn`t explain that very good , when i said that you where driving in a canyon down i meant inside of the canyon , that part of the road you are in a tunnel that runs through the side of the canyon in the rock . so in a way you are inside the canyon , AND TAKE IT IN THE CANYON DOWN . just wondering what other searchers think about this .

  69. If I am reading this correctly, Forrest wants us to get our hands dirty just a bit. Dig in the dirt, play in the mud, forget the gloves. Of course, this is only IMO .
    OK guys – play YOUR hand……

    • wwwamericana – That’s just what I did, in up to my elbows, at my mole hole hidey spot with the soft dirt. It took a while to get the dirt out from under my fingernails.

      My search buddy found a rusted Polaski in the dumpster last night. I think we should put that excellent tool in our canoe, just in case. I mean, what if another lightning caused fire breaks out, like that big one in 1988, while we are BOTG? I guess the Madison River makes a pretty good fire break, though. It did in 1988. And so did the steep bluff just behind my hidey spot. You can see the burned areas on my topo map in satellite view. Forrest was that deliberate, IMO. I believe he thought of everything.

      • Lisa – Fire walls are important so hang on to that rusted Polaski/Pulaski. As you say, you never know when it might be needed. Perhaps a bit of training would be a good idea so you would be prepared to use it. Test flights are always a good thing before you tackle the real monster.

        Isn’t it fun digging in the dirt?

  70. Hi All;

    I looked up the word alliteration, and here is what I found:

    “What is a simple definition of alliteration?
    alliteration. noun. The repetition of identical or similar sounds at the beginning of words or in stressed syllables, as in “on scrolls of silver snowy sentences” ( Hart Crane )

    I then looked up, “Why an illite3ration is used?” And here is what I found:

    “Why is alliteration used?
    Why is it important? Alliteration focuses readers’ attention on a particular section of text. Alliterative sounds create rhythm and mood and can have particular connotations. For example, repetition of the “s” sound often suggests a snake-like quality, implying slyness and danger.”

    So, Forrest has used three alliterations that I am aware of – Two in the poem, and one in a story in TToTC. Where Warm Waters – and Title To The and the third – Big Buffalo Bulls.

    If the purpose of an alliteration is to: ” Alliteration focuses readers’ attention on a particular section of text. ” Why do we need to focus on these three sentences in which they are used? We know how important it is to figure out “Where Warm Waters Halt…” but how
    “Title To The Gold?” and what about “Big Buffalo Bulls” in the tale “Buffalo Cowboys?”

    Was it an accident that Forrest used alliterations in these three examples, or by design?

    Has anyone found other examples of Forrest using an alliteration in any of his books?

    Any ideas on why Forrest used these three? Just curious – JDA

    • JDA, looking at just what you posted, I know you don’t use the numbers thing, but, when I put in my numbers to title to the gold and buffalos, I get the 9th clue. What I get is: time 6 to 7 33 too/ and 8 22 14(or 5). Means: on 8/22, at 6:54, the sun’s elevation is at 5 degrees, add 33 too.
      Take away, it’s the shadow. At the spot, on 8/22, at 6:54, the sun will be at 5 degrees. Sun’s light at that degrees, hitting something will create a shadow, whatever feet long, add 33 to that.
      For me, the 7′ stick used creates an 80′ shadow. Adding 33 I get 113′. This matches the word “that” and “few” I posted before, the key, 113′. It’s my answer to the 9th clue. You asked, Was it an accident that Forrest used alliterations in these three examples, or by design? I didn’t even know of them until you just posted, so if you asked me, it’s by design.

    • I remember you and others speaking about alliteration a year ago in O+ Ends 60 something. It has been spoken of here in the past but no common reference as to what it is supposed to mean if anything. There are a lot of examples in TTOTC book for certain…. and seems like a common tool in Fenn’s toolbox.

      I believe the www in the poem is a key element.

      • Ken, you say, “There are a lot of examples in TTOTC…” I guess I am not reading closely enough – all I spotted was Big Buffalo Bulls plus the two in the poem. I guess I will have to read TTOTC again, more slowly – looking for other alliterations – Thanks Ken – JDA

      • Hi JDA: “And cars were whizzing every which way weren’t they?”

        There’s 5 W’s for you in a string of 6 words. Forrest uses alliteration a LOT. I could give you 100 examples.

    • Hi JDA,
      as usually you have catch very interesting idea.
      I have never paid any attention to alliterations (when you use words that have the same sound at the beginning) in both TTOTC and the poem. Maybe those alliterations are the aberrations which Forrest had mentioned long time ago?
      “There are nine clues in the poem, but if you read the book (TTOTC), there are a couple…there are a couple of good hints and there are a couple of aberrations that live out on the edge.” Moby Dickens Book Shop 34:41 mark
      But you found 3 alliterations: 2 in poem and 1 in the book. JDA, if you can find one more in TTOTC we can hypothesize that the alliterations are equal to “aberrations that live out on the edge”.
      When Forrest was asked about aberrations as usually his response was not very direct:
      In your dictionary, what’s an aberration? ~Serge Teteblanche
      “I don’t have a dictionary but my personal definition is “Something different.” I like that word. When I was a kid there was a commonly used word. Crean, and it described the condition a car could get into when it ran into a ditch and the frame twisted a little, preventing the doors from opening. Modern autos are more sturdy so I guess that word was retired. I can’t find it anywhere now. f
      Indeed, alliterations are something different.
      Well, I’ll also re-read TTOTC and search for one more alliteration there.

    • Aaron;

      Thanks for the post. As you said, second hand information, but maybe worthwhile – Thanks again for the post – JDA

    • Aaron: just to be clear, Doc wasn’t saying that FF told him alliteration in the poem wasn’t worth pursuing. Doc was much more specific than that: he was referring to the possibility that the poem’s alliteration (where warm waters) was a clue to the World Wide Web: “…sometimes you can overcook a solution by thinking too much. I am a simple man and www never entered my mind.”

      So all that Forrest was dismissing was the idea that the alliteration was a clue to build some sort of WWW web address. He didn’t address whether his frequent use of alliteration had any relevance to solving the clues. I certainly wouldn’t rule it out.

      • Hi Aaron: I miss Doc’s contributions — he was a very savvy searcher, but seems to have moved on years ago.

      • Zaphod – Thank you for clarifying that. People need to be careful when they state as fact something they misremember or dream up on their own as something Fenn meant or as a direct quote. I waste a LOT of time and I know others do, debunking these phony Fenn phantasies. Get the exact quote or don’t attribute it to Fenn. NOT commenting is also an option that some seem unaware of. Reading and listening are action verbs too, just like talking and commenting.

      • When I look at WWW or www, I imagine the teeth of a saw. Does anyone
        think this may be a hint about a place whose name includes Sawtooth?

        • Tall,

          www = does look like the sawtooth, its a bit of a stretch though. Anagrams are also full of rabbit holes and desperation.

        • Hello Tall Andrew. I’m not sure if the w’s are hints, but teeth is included with a scrapbook with the multitude of toothbrushes in the frog toothbrush holder, as well as, the last Six Questions on Jenny’s blog dated Feb. 4, 2019, where Mr. Fenn stated he enjoyed flying at 200′ in the teeth of the Rockies (paraphrased).

        • Hi PDenver: lot’s of toothy references from Forrest:

          TTOTC pg. 70: “I knew my college education had ended so I hurried back to my barracks, packed my extra shirt and tooth brush in a brown paper sack, left my beautiful cadet uniform folded on my bed, and headed out the back door.”

          SB 81: “He also was wearing a rather toothy smile.” (referring to Elton John)

          SB 86: “I just put my tooth brush in the dish washer so I have a few minutes to talk about how I’ve learned (to) stay happy in today’s gloomy world.”

          SB 99.5: “I don’t like clutter so everything on my counter is necessary. Kleenex, tooth brushes, clock, and sink are on the left.”

          SB 104: Forrest’s sabertooth cat is guarding the booze bottles on the bookshelf.

          SB 115: “Proper Dental Care” – picture of all of Forrest’s toothbrushes in the frog jar plus whole story is on teeth, toothbrushes, Brad Pitt, a snarling Pomeranian, etc.

          SB 117: “We first found a large mammoth tooth” and SB 117.5: shadowbox of mammoth story with hanging piece of “tooth”

          SB 121: about Tesuque “She has lost eleven teeth, but she still gulps her food okay.”

          SB 125: “Poor Leroy Calhoun was classified 4F as a result of the firecracker episode, and it prevented him from being drafted during the Korean War. I’ve jammed a lot of oral history in these 515 words, but I’ve also left out a few things.” (4F and oral)

          MW (5/4/2017): “I have arm chaired this thing to death. Why don’t you give me something I can chew on? Thanks for nothing. Outta here.”

          FF: “Well mr. Outta There, I will give you something to chomp on.”

          MW Six Questions (2/4/2019) Q5: “My favorite flights were those when I headed alone, and at 200 feet, into the teeth of the Rockies, not knowing, or caring, where I would land.”

          • Hello zaphod. Thank you for refreshing our minds of the many comments Mr. Fenn made. I had forgotten some of them. It appears in SB 99.5, he may have deliberately misspelled toothbrushes on purpose as if to say, “Look at this aberration!”

          • zaphod,
            Our conclusion is all the tooth references are for the Tooth of Time in the Philmont Ranch.
            We are still going for the NM solve.
            As always, IMO.

        • It’s the design on Charlie Brown’s shirt too. Would the Home of Brown be where Charlie lives? lol

          WWWW –on his shirt.

        • I did two high adventure backpacking trips as a Boy Scout in the Sawtooths. Sublime. Highly recommended. It’s in Idaho, sure, but nonetheless — spectacular.

          • Note: If you DO do a BOTG there, bear in mind — you are no less likely than any other searcher to date to find the TC.

      • Zap and Aaron, the problem with the term “Where Warm Waters Halt” is understanding where it came from, it was not a creation of Forrest Fenn, those exact words were in the New Mexico Game and Fishing Regulations before 1960’s and I should know, I was born here and am 72 plus …almost 73 and it, WWWH was in the Proclamation and all fishermen and women new it by heart.

        This knowelge is not specialized, just old as the hills. er mts I mean. So I guess one could say that WWWH ends on the South end of the ROckies since no other State to my uncertain knowledge uses or used it.

        This line of reasoning is like the one about “his father would know where he hid it” and that was a hard sell, but take Mr Terrific’s word for it, it was said, and WWWH was written many many year ago in NM.

        TT

        • Hi TT, it isn’t specialized knowledge if you live in NM I suppose. I fish a lot but grew up in Louisiana and now live in California and have never heard that before. The only thing I have heard from FF about having a knowledge of anything useful is Geography.

          • Aaron, the only way to use logic and feelings together for a winning solve is to understand the poem from the writers’ perspective. His “frame of reference” is a lot old school and a mix of what he did in life combined with what he learned from his experiences, his brush with death, twice in Laos/Nam and again with cancer in the 80’s was enough to make him see the world for the beautiful blessing it is and when you grow up in the woods and divin off of bridges into dangerous waters, life will take on a new meaning, tromping through Yellowstone Wilderness without fire power, I suggest understanding the adrenalin rush that someone like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evel_Knievel then combined with Robert Frost, Walt Whitman and Edgar Alan Poe, plus he has to be one of the best collectors of art and artifacts on the planet IMPO.

            To know these things about the poet, is to have specialized knowlege about him. That is most likely the KEY.

            Read Scrapbooks 104 thru 114 and examine the longitude of his clever ability, each one of those #s has a North main address, like where home was for ff. somewhere in the northern hemisphere the TC rests on one of those longitudes, that is not an opinion, it is a fact. I suspect 106 to be correct, the exact co ordinate where he bailed out in Laos, Western Hemi. Why? Survival, luck and providence. Somehow I see the Latitude having a connection with WWWH, what is it?

            TT

          • I agree, Aaron. NM fishing regulations are not something a kid would know (unless perhaps they were an avid fisherman living in New Mexico.) Kids also aren’t going to know about Molly Brown or Joseph Meek, and most American kids don’t speak Spanish. But it sure seems like a lot of searchers build solutions that depend on one or more of these elements.

          • Rich K, yes, since it has not been found Colorado looks like a special unmentioned place on the blog, however many places along the borders one must go into another state to access a place, take the Cumbres & Toltec RR, you cross the border 11 times in 64 miles of travel, see it from my video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-GD4vhA3No

            TT

        • I agreed with Aaron here – most likely that Forrest use codename WWWH for some general geographical term. And we know that many searchers have solved WWWH and even started search along CD. But it looks like that they have failed with finding the hoB at some distance from WWWH.
          Well, we have 3-4 months in 2019 (before snow) and so some hope that someone will found TC. If not maybe in 2020 Forrest will give us one more clue (when he will celebrate 90 years anniversary).

        • Whale Lake in Montana years ago required a Warm Water Permit. But no longer requires one. So Warm Waters Halt. Also Whale Lake is an anagram of waters halt.
          And Forrest held a book release at the Moby Dickens book store. Moby Dick the whale?
          AIMHO.

          • John R: “Whale Lake is an anagram of waters halt.”

            Are you sure? If you pull out whale, you’re left with TRSAT, i.e. WHALE START is an anagram of “waters halt”.

  71. Sounds like L3AP of faith if ya ask me but what do I know. Looking through the doors of perception I see so much self engulfing trash. But then again one mans trash another mans treasure. Now and forever more quipped the Raven. EAP was a genius but on a different level. Forward the Light Brigade!

  72. There is little opinion, I would like to discuss with you, Fenn in one of his tips indicated heights from 5,000 to 10,200 pounds, why exactly 10,200 pounds and not 10,000 or 11,000, do not you think this is strange? I think 10,200 is moving closer to the desired point of a hidden treasure, how did 5000 then appear? a simple arithmetic number divided in half, but slow down not 5100, if for example there were 10,000 pounds, it would be logical to imagine such a range, but we have 10,200, who was thinking about this?

      • I checked your information and do not quite agree.
        Here’s what Wiki writes:
        In vivo grows in North America, is widely distributed in the United States (Colorado, Utah, Arizona, Texas). It is found at altitudes from 5250 ft to 7880 ft, in rare cases at altitudes of 4600 ft and higher than 9850 ft above sea level.

    • I think the way to think about that “atf clue”, is if he had never said it. it still would be obvious in a way, if you are below 5000 ft you basically are not in the rocky mts, and if you are above 10,200 ft, you are (in most places) above tree line, so you wouldn’t be “seeing trees” in the way ff meant it (imo) and yes yes I know, there are probably more than a few places where this (rule of thumb) is not the case, and those are the only ones where this “atf clue” actually helps.

  73. Is it the Gulf of Mexico or the Golf of Mexico? That’s my question. This whole search may come down to golf. Anyone consider that? The difference between a fade and a draw may be some important information. 🙂

    • Draw your gaze to Nye, Mt using cal Topo…in the Stillwater mining district is a ridge called “the Golf Course”

      And then…there’s the homes ff has owned on golf courses in Montana, new mex, Texas, and Arizona

    • I’ve often thought that the poem reads as an adventure through a goony golf course.

  74. This post is brought to you by Yamaha Golf Carts. When it’s “not too far, but to far to walk” try Yamaha.

  75. Yamaha — whose logo/symbol was, at one time, some crossed tuning forks — reminds
    me of the phrase “where all the lines cross”. I’m still trying to figure out what FF means
    by that. As always, IMO.

    • Hello Tall Andrew. The phrase has brought me in many directions and I yet to understand. I’ve considered symbols such as: t (symbol of a cross), +, x, and *. I’ve also considered “lines” as a railroad and that trains cross on tracks. Could “where all the lines cross” suggest a gathering to where there is an end? Yes, for me, the phrase is interesting and a bit difficult to understand it’s true meaning. I’m probably making it more difficult than what it truly is.

      • Where all the lines cross. I know that one. You can find the answer in the dictionary, I think. 🙂

        • That’s not much help, especially since FF didn’t make it clear which lines he was talking about. But good luck to you anyway. As always, IMO.

      • For me, it’s too vague to justify much concern. I’m going to focus
        more on the poem than on any of these comments from FF. IMO.

      • Hi PDenver & Tall Andrew: Forrest used the lines-crossing phrase many years before in a separate context, and interestingly in conjunction with his other repeated phrase “metaphorically speaking”:

        MW 6 Questions (2/4/2013): Q6: “After reading your book, and sensing you have found a sincere peace and purpose in your life, but knowing others still struggle with this ultimate find, I wonder, what would your advice be to others for realizing the contentment it seems you now know? Do you feel the thrill of the chase (not the hunt) is vital?”

        FF: “There is an appropriate quote in the Duveen biography by Secrest: ‘They never knew that it was the chase they sought and not the quarry.’ I see my memoir as being a story that was ordained by some unknown hand. It came to me at age eighty as though my entire life had been waiting for that moment. The bulk of the book was written in six weeks and phrases that I had never thought of before, suddenly appeared on my computer screen. I said in the forward that the book wrote itself. I had written seven books before this one, and it seemed that none of the lines crossed where they were supposed to, metaphorically speaking.”

  76. One question I need to know. Are the clues only in the search area or can they be anywhere in the world? Please help!

    • Indiana;

      Forrest has never stated one way or the other. Follow the clues. Could someone find a WWWsH in Idaho, as an example, and find a canyon that took them to Montana or Wyoming? Possible I suppose – and then follow the rest of the clues to Indulgence in Montana or Wyoming. As I said, If the clues lead you there – go for it – FOLLOW THE POEM – JMO – JDa

        • CharlieM;

          If one found WWWsH in Idaho, only Montana and Wyoming are adjacent, so only those two states might have a workable “Canyon Down”. Could other clues lead you to Colorado or NM – MAYBE, but doubtful – “Too far to walk” from Idaho I suspect 🙂 – JDA

          • Ahhh…It sounds like JDA has moved on into Montana? Say it ain’t so? What happened to Wyoming as your one and ONLY possibility? Good luck in Montana! Maybe I’ll see you there.

            ByGeorge

          • ByGeorge;

            Never Never will I leave Wyoming. I was just giving an example of how one might start outside of the four given states and still end up within the four at the end.

            Idaho shares its border with both Montana and Wyoming – that is all. Because of the continental divide I can see where one MIGHT start in Idaho and cross the border, and end up in Montana or Wyoming if they “Take the canyon down…” JDA

          • JDA – Yes. All three state lines cross at the Continental Divide, above the Madison Basin in YNP. Look at the ‘big pitcher’. Giggles.

          • JDA – Kira posted this from the Business Insider article:

            “Read the clues in my poem over and over and study maps of the Rocky Mountains,” Fenn said via email. “Try to marry the two. The treasure is out there waiting for the person who can make all the lines cross in the right spot.”

            Works for me! Idaho, Montana and Montana meet on the Continental Divide, so close to West Yellowstone.

          • JDA,
            And here I was thinking your WWWH was your love for your wife so you’de begin in Idaho and your journey from there. Makes for an interesting concept at the very least.

            Have a good weekend.

            ByGeorge

          • ByGeorge;

            I am sure you are pulling my leg, and that is OK :-).

            If several people have correctly identified the right WWWsHalt several years ago, long before I started my search – I kinda doubt that the love of my life was involved – 🙂 JDA

  77. Given that Forrest Said:
    A)Thanks Michael. The spot where I hid the treasure was in my mind from the time I first started thinking about the chase. It is special to me and there was never another consideration. I was going to make it work no matter what. In my reverie I often find myself stealing away to that place and I will always consider it to be mine alone.f

    What is it that makes you (anybody out there) think he wouldn’t hid it in Yellowstone or any other National Park/Monument?

    • meBigGuy,

      I’ll give you one good reason that the treasure is not in any NP or SP, too much legal wrangling would go on, just to keep the chest. A more reasonable place to hide the treasure is on public domain land, such as National Forests we all own. Not some place you have to pay to get into, which are Federally or State Owned land.

      • IMO that line of reasoning is invalid. The special spot is where ever it is and he will make it work regardless. No after the fact influences. “I was going to make it work no matter what”

          • Not sure what you mean. The line of reasoning that after-the- fact complications would limit the location flies directly in the face of what Forrest said. The location came first. Damn the torpedos, full speed ahead.
            BTW, being flexible would mean accepting the possibility that it is in YNP or any other National Park which is just the opposite of what you seem to be implying.

    • meBigGuy – Because Forrest wrote “stealing away” in that quote. Some entrances to YNP cost nothing; on foot, or while wearing fly fishing wading boots or on a backwardS bike.

      Baker’S Hole could be “where all the lines cross”; of National Forest, State and Federal lands. My search area is located:

      – In the state of Montana.
      – On the YNP boundary.
      – In the Gallatin National Forest.
      – In the Hebgen Lake Day Use Area.
      – On a Rainbow Bend in the Madison River (Montana public waterway access rules apply).
      – At the end of the KWYS runway.
      – Adjacent to Gallatin County Highway 191 (built by that Father and Son team, named Brown. See: that 1911 map Dal posted).

      That’s a lot of lines crossing. Make ‘IT’ work, Forrest. Blaze a new trail for the lands designated “for the people”. Bravo!

      All IMO.

    • I`m 99% sure it`s in yellowstone and i`m right 99% of the time so there`s a 98.01 % chance that it is . just sayin

      • unless you are 100%, then you can’t go in confidence. That would leave 98.01% way off, and of no relevance. With the Rockies roughly 3000 miles, 98.01% would mean you are off around 60 miles. Also, it leads to the 200 footers being 99.999% right but they didn’t know it, and they found nothing. As far as Yellowstone, I would think f would not want to be seen, by anyone. Too many tourist, park rangers, and just traffic that would not want to be a part of. just sayin’

        • poisonivey – Except for those approximately 10 Madison River miles, from above the Barns Holes to Baker’S Hole, that Forrest walked in YNP with his dinghy, in the preface of TFTW. He wrote, “no ranger”, and then, “no rangers”, after getting feedback, per Dal:

          https://dalneitzel.com/2013/03/23/looking-in-new-mexico/#comment-25946

          Craig Matthews said Barns Holes to Baker’S Hole is approximately 8 river miles in his great book about the Madison River. Sounded like ‘IT’ was a great place to fly fish for big Browns and Rainbows in quiet solitude.

          • hey Lisa, I’m not very educated as far as the area, so I stand corrected as far as Yellowstone is concerned. I just wanted to show JPE that his calculation is far off. (plus I wanted to show off my limited math skills:)) Be that as it may, if we really want to consider Yellowstone, the whole area surrounding could technically be considered Yellowstone., In fact, even all the way to Anaconda, (my wwwh), could be considered Yellowstone. The whole area is part of the Yellowstone geyser system, so technically, I guess you can even say I’m in Yellowstone. It’s roughly the reason that the whole Deer valley got it’s name. I’m taking for granted that JPE was just referring to the park.
            I guess if “it” was done at the Madison, a place “dear to him to rest his bones” could be “Deer Lodge”. Of course, the chest is probably in one of the other three states, but I don’t think so.

  78. meBigGuy;

    I think that Forrest answered the question for you, but many ignore it.
    ““Generally speaking, there are places where one should stay on established trails; Yellowstone is one. However, it reminds me of the worn-out axiom, “If you ain’t the lead dog, the scenery never changes. When I am in the mountains or in the desert, the last place I want to be is on a trail. Ain’t no adventure in that for me. There isn’t a human trail in very close proximaty (sic) to where I hid the treasure”. f

    1) Forrest says that in Yellowstone one should stay on trails.
    2) Forrest says the last place he wants to be – is on a trail.
    3) He says that there is no adventure on staying on a trail – implying (at least to me) that the chase is an adventure that will take one off of a trail.
    4) There is not a human trail in very close proxamity (sic) to where indulgence is
    5) This brings us full circle – If in Yellowstone – stay on the trails. Indulgence is not in very close proximaty (sic) to a human trail – therefore, Indulgence is not in Yellowstone – Just how I read it – JDA

    • Sorry, I meant to hit the “reply” button and post below meBigGuy – sorry – JDA

    • I have read that the same way. It would apply to Yellowstone, but not other Parks.

      But, you can also read that as – you should stay on established trails in Yellowstone, but there is no adventure in that for me, so I don’t – .

    • HI JDA, (on the quote about Yellowstone) one could read that as meaning that there are places in Yellowstone where you should stay on the trail as an example, and also there are places in Yellowstone where one can leave the trail too.

      not that I think it is in Yellowstone, only that one could read it that way. There is a problem with right of possession in Yellowstone too. However one can read into the “right” of “possession”, that this is also the perfect place to put it, as after turning a “treasure” in to the park ranger (or not), and them determining what it is, this treasure is yours in 30 or so days.

      cut and dry as ice right? in other words, the answer “depends” on how someone wants to read it. which is the same problem as reading the poem.

      • I agree with your remarks about right of possession after 30 days. I actually think that it is possible that this is one way FF would be able to know if the treasure has been found. They would probably contact him if it was found in YS. He would then say he abandoned it, and the finder would ultimately get it back.

    • To me the “Generally speaking” part of the quote makes YS seem more appealing. Of course generally speaking one should stay on trails there. Most tourist aren’t equipped for off trail hikes in YS. The search for the treasure doesn’t with anything someone would say “Generally speaking” about. He follows that sentence with “However”. That is enough to make me think it is just as likely to be in YS than anywhere else. But we also have the heart in YS quote. The magical quote, etc.

  79. “No human trail in close PROXAMITY” – may be a true statement.
    Which COULD mean that there is a human trail in close PROXIMITY….
    I’d vote for that – IMHO.

    • Am sure you meant to have a “very” in your fist line – OOPS

      Question is: what is close, and what is very close??? Who knows? JDA

      • JDA I think you are incorrect! IMO.
        Very close Proximity means close close! Look it up!

      • Hi JDA,
        To answer your question, I looked up the ff quote about him being in the desert and seeing second world war relics on top of old relics, and he referred to these as being “in close proximity” to each other. In other words I took this to mean about 2ft away from each other. So, “very close proximity” would be within 2ft.
        IMO, hope this helps. I’m at work and don’t have the books here to refer to ff exact story lines.
        Jeff C

    • www;

      My comment was because you put “No human trail in close PROXAMITY”
      in quotation marks. Forrest’s quote says: “There isn’t a human trail in very close proximaty (sic) to where I hid the treasure”. f

      So I mentioned the fact that you had put it in quotation marks, and that was NOT an accurate quote.

      Travis then said that I was incorrect – and that is not true – this IS an accurate quote.

      Travis then says that very close means close close and to look it up. MY point exactly Travis. The treasure is NOT in VERY close proximaty (sic) or is not in close close vicinity to a human trail as you say. JDA

        • The use of “proximaty” has been discussed for years. Since it’s
          not a real word, FF could logically mean the same thing by saying there “isn’t a human trail in very close squigglywonkus to where I hid the treasure.” In other words, a meaningless remark.

          I think he said “proximaty” to tease a bit, so we would think of
          “mat” (similar to blanket, which was emphasized many times by
          someone posting on one or more blogs about this hunt).

          In his “proximaty” remark, FF didn’t define “human trail”. So maybe we should also think about what that might be. That’s also been discussed, but I don’t want to bore you too much
          more in too short a period of time. As always, IMO.

  80. JDA….brillant deduction. It is paramount to stay on trails in Jellystone. Colter’s Hell is awash with pitfalls.Boiling mud pots…. quicksand….cliffs….ruff terrain…rushing waters…forests to get list in….rapid temperature changes……and not too many Pinyon nuts.
    -guy-

      • Travis;

        Why are pinon crucial. After making the statement about pinon – Forrest said the following:
        , “If I was standing where the treasure chest is, I’d see trees, I’d see mountains, I’d see animals. I’d smell wonderful smells of pine needles, or pinyon nuts, sagebrush—and I know the treasure chest is wet. Well you’ve asked me a lot of questions and some of them—most of them I answered, a few I haven’t, but I’ve got to tell you—there’s one thing I told you I wish I had not.” f

        But in an interview with The New Mexican, Fenn said, “That video didn’t have any clues. It might influence some people to come to New Mexico, but I don’t want to give the impression that I am giving that as a clue because I am not.”

        Here on Dal’s Blof Forrest said this:
        Forrest Fire
        on February 6, 2015 at 3:45 pm said:
        You are right Ed, that New Mexico tourism video is getting a lot of exposure. I did not intend for my comment about pinon nuts to be a clue, and certainly no one should believe I was trying to say the treasure is hidden in New Mexico. Shame on me for saying that. f

        So, Travis, why do you think that pinon are important when Forrest has said that that is not a clue? Just askin’- JDA

          • That dead horse has been beaten well (there’s a joke).
            The spelling of that kind of nut is a tiny hint. Have you
            noticed how much FF uses words containing “pi”?
            All in my
            o pi nion. Hee hee.

          • Tall Andrew: not just pi, but also two pi. Pineapple pies, Mississippi, Philippines, “break two pies”, Pied Piper (TFTW pg. 77), two piglets in SB 123, Repin in SB 147, and my personal favorite: multiple references to Brad Pitt (PI TT=PI π).

          • Good catch on the pi’s, zaphod. The pineapple pies would always draw my attention in the stories he told and try to make some connection.

          • Tall Andrew and Zap – Golden Angle f or Phi is Baker’S Hole in my solve. Phee Phi Pho Phum, I can see a giant thumb! ‘IT’ points left, inside the Rainbow Bend of my search area, in my topo satellite view.

            Didn’t Forrest cover ‘Phi•la•del•phi•a’ with his right thumb, while flying over ‘IT’? The KWYS runway ends across Hwy 191 from my search area, and I witnessed a Lear jet, circling Southeast, on takeoff, right above me, as I stood at the shore there.

          • Hi McKendree: Forrest DID say there was no clue to be had there:

            “Halogetter, I just watched that New Mexico Tourism video again and must say that I didn’t say what I was thinking. You cannot smell a pinon nut, but those who pick them know that in doing so you get pine pitch all over your hands, and pine pitch smells about the same no matter what kind of pine tree you are talking about. Looking back I think I wanted to say I could smell pine needles, not pinon nuts. Sorry I kicked a hornet’s nest with that comment. There is no clue there. Incidentally, when I get pine pitch on my hands I rub butter on the spots and that solves the problem. Of course then I have trouble getting the butter off. f”

        • JDA,
          As you say, Forrest posted this comment on the New Mexico tourism video :

          “You are right Ed, that New Mexico tourism video is getting a lot of exposure. I did not intend for my comment about pinon nuts to be a clue, and certainly no one should believe I was trying to say the treasure is hidden in New Mexico. Shame on me for saying that. f ”

          IMO this smacks of a type of disclaimer, such as an expert lawyer might use. Forrest may have been getting out of a dilemma by using language such as “did not intend” and “I was trying to say”.

          But at the same time, he does not explicitly deny any inadvertant or subliminal reference to pinon pine. So how does that translate into Forrest stating that pinon is not a clue? Just wondering. I don’t think he ever said “it is not a clue”, or at least not in those words.

          McK

          • Well; McK – How would you have worded it? To me, he did say – “It is not a clue” – without sounding too stilted, which Forrest is not. JMO – JDA

          • McK if you are at the sight -where you smell pine and pinon to me it is a clue – the spill from the creek when it over fills with limbs and broken pine trees -that’s where the smell comes from and each year the ground starts to build up with all of that stuff and that to me and my opinion is what he means and that’s what makes in the wood

        • After the word “believe” he says “I was trying to say the treasure is hidden in New Mexico.”
          I guess it’s the angle you’re going for or your perception of what was said.
          Just sayin.
          As always, IMO.

        • JDA,
          As I said in my reply to you previously, the question is not whether Forrest said the pinon comment was a clue or not – it is the way he addressed the issue: ” I did not intend for my comment about pinon nuts to be a clue ”

          You asked me “how would you have worded it?” Well, I would have just said “My comments regarding the word pinon are not a clue”.

          McK

          • It would appear that you are a pretty direct speaker – I kinda have a tendency to hem and haw a bit – much like Forrest. To each our own. Have a great search, and may you go directly to it – no zig-zaggin’ or hem- hawin’ 🙂 JDA

  81. Hi All,
    I wonder if someone can help me out with this. I found a quote that said “not in a tree but surrounded by trees”. I don’t know if that came directly from Forrest or if it was someone’s interpretation of what Forrest said. I’m not interested in the “surrounded by trees” part. I know he’s said that before and then added if you look far enough everything is surrounded by trees. My question is did Forrest ever specifically state that the treasure is not in a tree? If so, can anyone show me his direct quote? And yes, I realize that most trees won’t be around 1000 years from now.

  82. Hey everyone, hope all is well. I just got done with my knee surgery, and will begin a two week recovery period. During that time (its always about time), I plan to post my second and final solution to the Chase here on Dal’s and over at the Mysterious Writings forums. The inspiration for this final move came from the latest Avengers movie, in which my favorite hero growing up (Iron Man), sacrificed everything he was in order for everyone to win. I’ve decided to enact the similar gesture, by giving up all of my information on so many aspects of the Chase that people have pondered on but never resolved. Though it will contain all theoretical and opinionated answers to so many things, I will speak of it as if it were fact…so please try to understand it’s only my impassioned voice that is truly fact. It will be very long winded with many ON SITE pictures to explain the 9 clues and so much more. It is my hope that you can all look at it with an open heart and mind, and as you read… perhaps you will slowly begin to see all of the dots connect to one piece of property in Montana. Given all of my information, perhaps one of you in closer proximity… can finish what I could not.
    The writeup well be affectionately titled, The Trouble With Confidence: ENDGAME. It shall incorporate, what I believe, the best solution so far discussed within the Chase. It contains all of the imagination and knowledge that I can muster. It’s going to effectively supply near perfect answers to many of your burning questions. Some include… the famous T.S. Elliot quote and what it means, The true meaning of Moses (the omniscient guru and blaze of the Chase), the little girl in India explained, more than just a pig, the ranch near Santa Fe. Questions will be answered… like Why go back to the first clue if we cannot find the chest? or Why is the final clue in the parking lot of the Denver Museum? Why is that place so special and dear to him? I will describe Forrest’s penchant for rebus imaging hints, and why the first stanza is so important to starting the WWWH. The unintended clue in Too Far To Walk, as wells Moses will be shown to point the way to the same location the poem takes you. My thoughts on the 200 feet searcher early in the Chase and how it leads exactly to my spot from a picture Forrest said he recognized. I’ll hopefully help reveal the three dustcovers and their hidden meanings as they pertain to the treasure. I’ll explain why Forrest perked up at the mention of the number 7 on Ramblin Pam’s interview with him. I’ll use Forrest’s advisory weekly words to help support all of my theories, in which I shall explain them in detail.
    One would immediately ask, “Why Will, would you give away all your hard work even if some is correct and some is not?” The answer is… I’m tired and weak, emotionally speaking. I’ve trekked across the nation 7 times and there has always been something that has “interfered” in doing what needs done. If I lived 30 minutes from my spot, it would be so positive and thrilling to fail those 7 times. But when you spend $1,500 a pop to chase something that you truly need time to discover, it just gets to be too much…even for my iron will. I just want the Chase to end. And I’m hoping all or at least some of what I put out there, will help one of you do exactly that. Stay tuned… 😯

    • I have always considered you one of the contenders in the Chase Iron Will and I look forward to reading your solve. I hope you have a speedy recovery.

    • Iron Will.
      I can to some degree relate to your delima on ending your search , do to or not your physical condition.
      I see that your very admirable individual to post and give up what you feel is the right and valuable information that may help others.
      I to have felt the same way and thought just give it all and someone will solve the last bit and this will be concluded , moving on to a new chapter.
      I hope that your decesions help you with your odds and ends of the chase and are not resented later.
      Yes the expense is great and more if you travel far. And yes to most and family the expense is not justified. But that’s whole nother story.
      But you chose to that and I bet as time goes on you will not regret it.
      I face similar circumstances that have altered my life in away that I needed that does not agree with very many as my family has hinted.
      But I feel in control of myself and who I am and not controlled by who I support and I’m more satisfied with myself. The Chase has been good for me and almost detrimental also, ask others and the opinion will not be the same.
      I to have thought give it all for all. Stop and go back to the norm. I’ve never thought I was normal so what’s the difference.
      All my life I’ve done for someone else and this has gave me something to do for myself. But if I give it all up to be back we’re I started before the Chase then I will have failed myself.
      So not to change your mind on your decision and I’m sure you will make the best one, I just wanted to share my odds and ends with you.
      If I am so lucky to solve the poem I do not know if I could explain how when where to why I figured it out.
      I’m giving myself one last trip to the solve.
      Benn there so many times I quit counting.
      I’ve been asked. Don’t know.
      My family thinks I’m not here. They just don’t know any different then me always being available all the time.
      One more final trip. The blaze is the location and that’s were I go. I feel it’s direction is chosen by another admirable individual and I still plan to prove it.
      If not. I will give it all up.
      Iron Will. I wish you well. As all. Good Luck with your future and keep the bright star in your sights.
      Sincerely. GH

      • Iron Will,
        I feel the sa&me way. It’s not about giving up it’s about doing the right thing. This Chase isn’t about me/us. If I can help someone else achieve the finality then I’ve not failed.

        Forrest has done his share and it’s time to make sure his star shines brightly in history as one of the greatest humanitarians to ever walk this Earth.

        This Chase isn’t about SELF INDULGENCE! And to tell you he truth this world needs hope and more Forrest Fenns in it!

        As for me, my mark has been made. If my actions bring about a solution before another star dims then how can I lose? That makes me /us a winner!

        Just imagine how PROUD our parents would be of us for doing the right thing!!! The Angels will sing and the Devil will cry! Too bad Mr. Devil…Mr. & Mrs. Forrest Fenn’s star WILL shine in history!

        Now where’s my cat! We got some work to do before this last botg! Geezzz she’s sleeping. Go figure!

        ByGeorge

        • I just hope you guys feel that way after you see how long the write up is lol It reveals so much relevant information. I actually haven’t started it yet…dang knee has been killing me last night and this morning. The woes of healing I guess 🙁

          • Iron Will – Bravo! You are my hero.

            Sending you healing…

            Looking forward to your insights…

            Thank you for sharing so much with all of us here on The Chase.

            Love, E-Star

    • Hi Iron Will,
      it’s always interesting to read solutions of other searchers but each time when I read them I’m asking myself just one question: will I go there in my next BOTG? In 99.9% of cases my answer is no. At the same time I believe that if I post my solutions for clues WWWH and up to the hoB this area will be immediately flooded by hundreds of searchers and TC will be founded during several days. It’s just psychology phenomena – we believe in our ideas/solutions 100% but reject ideas/solutions of others especially if they contradict to our ones.
      So, you can publish your solution but you should know – nobody will go there for search. There is only one exclusion when I will go there: your hoB is the same as my. But it’s very unlikely because all people have different imaginations. Forrest said: “Whoever finds the treasure will mostly earn it with their imagination.”

          • all will be explained CC. the peril line was a joke incase you didn’t realize, which I don’t think you did.

      • Hi Andy S.: your post is on the mark, and for the reasons stated. Iron Will: it is not a reflection of how right or wrong your solution turns out to be — it is a consequence of personal emotional investment. The correct solution could be posted here, and it would still be rejected by most searchers.

        • The correct solution Zap, will inevitably be self evident and I think that it would not be dismissed.

          • Ken, we will know that it was correct solution only after TC is found. Right now any published solution looks very self evident.
            Of course, everybody likes to read posted solutions because wants to compare them with own solution. But it’s very low probability that published solution will be identical to your solution.
            Even if solutions for first 2 clues are identical to your solutions next solutions for clues #3 and 4 most likely will be different. So, I read all solutions and hypotheses published here and compare them with my current solution. However, if I see that all solutions for clues #1-4 is absolutely identical to my I’ll definitely take one week vacation and go there.

          • My comment is based on the premise that the Chase has stalled [that we know of] with only an inkling of an idea from Fenn that he is not sure about folks solving and [knowing] up to clues three and four. With all of the great ideas and diligent minds at work for over nine years it seems plausible that when and if that barrier is breached it will be a slap in the head that most die hard searchers will understand. With that said… if someone posted THAT particular sequence of info… it would most likely be quite obvious. I doubt that will happen until after the chest is retrieved… and maybe not even then if the retriever decides to hole up and remain off the grid. Until then… who knows anything for certain except Fenn.

          • Ken;

            I very much agree with your last post. Forrest has said that once the solution is known, otherts will say, “Now why didn’t I think of that?” (Paraphrased) The location may be “Off of the beaten path” – by that, I mean a location that has not been searched by many, but once disclosed other searchers will see that all of the clues fit easily – That is just a guess, based on nothing but conjecture.

            Forrest has said over and over to marry the poem to a map, and that the poem IS a map. It is just a matter of finding the starting location, and then following the clues precisely – and THAT is a VERY difficult thing to do – IMO – JDA

          • I tend to agree with both Ken and JDA. Although it is sort of hard to fathom that minds that could not come up with the solution will see it as a head slapper once they hear it? Will it be like a riddle, that when the answer is told we kick ourselves for not thinking of it? That’s what FF seems to think, and it is easy for him to do so since he knows the answer.

        • Hi ken: in past armchair treasure hunts, that has not always proven to be the case. Masquerade is one example. I will tell you this: the correct WWWH has been posted here on Dal’s (IMO). It did not cause a flood of searchers to that location. Probably a hundred times as many searchers latch onto Madison Junction or Ojo Caliente, which just goes to show that popularity is no guarantee of correctness.

          • I think Zaphod is correct in that statement. Although my recent most of a biscuit basin posted solve states otherwise. This morning I landed on a different location for WWWH.

            Looking at the bigger picture, I think WWWH is his cabin in the woods. Bigger picture just West Yellowstone in general.

          • zap,

            I do agree with you when a theory is posted and is ignored because of bias and popularity of where most searchers are looking. I would hope that folks would be open minded about another theory, this is most likely not being down. Don’t bite off your nose despite of ones face. Who knows they could retrieve the chest and thank the person who came up with the theory other than their own.

            Let’s find the chest and we’re on limited time for Forrest to know that the treasure has been found.

          • HI CharlieM: oh, I look forward to reading Ironwill’s solution as much as anyone else — perhaps more than most because I know he searches in Montana, and I know that he extracts something important from the first stanza of the poem related to WWWH (as do I). Who knows? We may even have the same WWWH, though the odds are very much against it.

          • Zap… I don’t believe this Chase is based on or similar to any of the armchair hunts.

          • Hi ken: well, I think it’s similar in at least two respects. First: I believe it’s an *armchair* treasure hunt, and not a scavenger hunt (i.e. solvable from home). A lot of searchers will disagree with me on that, but I think the totality of Forrest’s statements (e.g. regarding confidence) support it.

            The second way that I think the Chase is similar to past treasure hunts has to do with how some of the clues are designed. I think you’d agree that if, for instance, an acrostic is involved in solving any one of the clues, then it would share that similarity with several past treasure hunts.

    • Iron Will,

      I began the TTOTC journey in the late summer of 2016. Crazy how time flies, yet stands still? Sew, I remember many of your comments. One of my mottos or rules of thumb, at this stage in my life, is to attempt to appreciate the art of listening. It’s quite an “important” work of art.

      Now, my Wife, who also may be listening, may at times, suggest that I have room (with a view) for improvement. To which, she’s right, LoL at myself.
      And so, i want you to know i appreciate your words and seeds of thought.
      I also respect whatever decision you make, as I almost walked away several times myself.
      Speaking of endgame, I pose the following question to you and the community:

      If you find the treasure chest, what would you do?

      Perhaps you mentioned your answer once upon A while, but perhaps you could refresh my memory.
      T.S. speaking of superheroes, I’m more of a spiderman or batman kind-of-guy. Spidey has the better-old-school theme song, but batman has got the sickest abs. Just sayin.

      • If I did find it, I’d put it where Forrest wants it to rest…in the Smithsonian.

    • I know how you feel Iron Will. The frustration becomes crushing. I look forward to your write-up.

    • Hey Iron Will,

      Good luck with recovery. I had reconstructive knee surgery in my late 20’s (tore my ACL playing volleyball) so I know the road to recovery can be difficult.

      I look forward to reading your solve. I think most of us searches enjoy reading others’ interpretations of the clues.

    • Iron Will,

      You are doing what I have done with my theories and that is to post the full theory of our reasoning and locations, I am very happy each time that a full theory is posted and allowing folks to check out the theories with botg which may be generous in a huge way if the tc is found using the theories of someone else’s work. Big kudos to you.

      I sincerely hope your recovery goes well and quickly. My father in his recovery made a point to use a bike so that he had the full range of movement and it worked very well. Best wishes!

      Just Say’n

      • Charlie I did something stupid. I started walking on it a day after surgery, because the nurse said I could put light weight on it. That was yesterday morning. Felt great for lightly walking around (instead of the crutches). But last night I was in so much pain. I looked at the paper this morning and the part about lightly walking on it was for 3 days AFTER surgery. Nurse forgot to say that. So now I’m paying with a little irritation.

        As far as my sharing of everything I’ve figured out (or hope I have), people don’t to read it, or believe it if they do read. I’m just betting there’s enough open minded searchers who will connect the dots of my research and use it to finish this Chase.

  83. Hey Iron! Take it easy and heal up! I too look forward to reading your write up! Be sure to include your recipe for Pies 🙂

  84. At last. The nefarious “final clue” revealed.
    Can’t wait to compare notes on that one.
    No, really I can’t wait.
    Google – contact patch – for something to
    think about.

  85. This page is now closed to new comments. To continue the conversation pleas go to the latest Odds n Ends page.

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