The Blaze…


This is the place to discuss the the blaze. What do you think it is? Is it temporary or permanent? Will it be around for a thousand years or doesn’t it matter? Is it easy to spot or difficult? Does the poem tell us what the blaze looks like or what it is?

Nick Lazaredes of SBS-TV’s Dateline in Australia interviewed Forrest in the spring of 2014. Here is Forrest explaining the BLAZE.

404 thoughts on “The Blaze…

    • Agreed! Thanks Dal.
      /Users/benlyonshome/Library/Containers/ Downloads/C31CF6C9-2818-4D7B-AE1B-BFD60B4D30E2/Forrest Treasure.jpg

  1. To Forrest,
    A blaze is anything that stands out,
    But to a searcher
    A blaze is anything that pans out.

  2. “The fact is the IMPORTANT ONE is out there”
    It makes sense it’s a single physical object or marking.

  3. I’m hard of hearing, so unless the audio comes with text, I wont be able to follow it.

    • Here ya go, Francis –

      FORREST FENN: The Blaze is a physical thing. It’s not theoretical. Boy did I give you a big clue. That’s not a clue, I mean, it doesn’t take a scientist to figure out that the blaze is something you can look at.

      NICK LAZAREDES: But what is it, exactly? Blaze is a collection of something?

      FENN: A horse has a blaze on his forehead here. I mean, there are rocks that have a white face could be a blaze. I mean, there’s a fire that’s blazing. I mean, I could give you a thousand different scenarios there. And all of them come to me in – by email. Everybody finds a different one. The fact is, the important one is out there.

  4. My fantasy idea of what the blaze is, is a rainbow appears when the sunlight touches on a water fall at just the right moment.

    • I used to think it might be a rainbow by a waterfall, but like a shadow it is dependent on the sun. On a cloudy day the blaze would not be there. Don’t wont to dissuade you from your theory, just giving my thoughts.

    • Nice, like magic. I once had an idea to stand in a particular spot on the summer solstice, and I’ll be darn.. g

      • Confirmation bias maybe, but such amazing odds. It may be keeping me from considering other places, but I can’t get that sunset out of my head. g

    • Francis, water isn’t necessary to make a rainbow.

      I used to work at a place that did bead blasting with very tiny glass beads (balls). It’s like sandblasting, but less abrasive — as the glass beads don’t have sharp corners that erode the item being blasted.

      On a sunny day, glass beads on the ground can make a rainbow. (And they are also like ice to walk on . . . extremely slippery!)

      Good luck in your solving and searching. All IMO.

  5. I’ve made a curious observation that ~might~ be connected to the blaze. Consider that Z is the least frequently used letter in English, and B is not that far behind at 7th rarest. Now look at these:

    TFTW chapter 32: Bella ABZUG
    SB 10: Wolfgang POGZEBA
    SB 103: the ZEBRA boots

    ABZUG, POGZEBA, ZEBRA and BLAZE all contain the letters A, B and Z. If you throw in Bella’s first name, then all four contain the letters A, B, E and Z. You could also include the BILLINGS GAZETTE from the Totem Cafe chapter of TTOTC, Forrest’s BRONZE STAR from My War For Me, the BRONZE INDIAN (or “it’s A BRONZE”) from Teachers With Ropes, and even San Lazaro Pueblo.

    Another word with A, B, E and Z? BOZEMAN.

  6. Is the blaze a single object? “In a word… yes”

    This exchange should have all searchers thinking. Also, can the blaze be removed? “It’s possible, but certainly not feasible. I suppose it could be obliterated.” Disclaimer: the second quote is paraphrasing, but HUGE clues have been given by Forrest, IMO. I also think that FF gave one whopper of a hint concerning the blaze on this very website, but too many people were focused on the ants and they missed the elephant that walked by. All in my humble opinion, of course.

    • Hi RedneckFromMS: gotta be careful with those paraphrasals or they might lead you astray (but you are to be lauded for including your Disclaimer!) The quote about blaze removal is part of what follows (from Nine Clues Part 31 back on 9/26/2014):

      “I had an enjoyably (sic) visit with Tom and his brother at the Downtown Subscription Coffee Shop in Santa Fe. They seemed like nice guys and avid treasure hunters. But there is confusion somewhere. While it’s not impossible to remove the blaze it isn’t feasible to try, and I am certain it’s still there.”

      “And while I’m here I’d like to make some comments:

      I have never said that a searcher was within 2-feet of the treasure, or 6-feet, or 20.

      None of my bronze bells or jars are buried at San Lazaro Pueblo.

      The CE5 phrase on the treasure chest is of no value to searchers.

      Snow and freezing temperatures have already arrived to parts of the Rocky Mountains. If you plan to search this winter please be safe.”

      • Thanks Zap. I almost didn’t post it, as I was going from memory. Don’t know how the word “obliterate” became lodged in my memory, but it did. I’ll look around more to see if I can find a quote to that effect. In any case, I THINK I know what the blaze is, although the riddle drove me crazy for more than two years. IMO, 99% of people overcook the poem, and their solution.

    • Redneck,
      Could it be possible the second part of your comment be confused with this Q&A about the chest, and not so much the blaze?

      Q~ According to recent research about the Yellowstone Supervolcanoe and if I do the maths right, there is a 1 in 700 chance the treasure will get blown to bits in the next 1000 years.
      Are you okay with those odds or does that make you feel like you should move the treasure? …preferably somewhere closer to me.
      A~ I doubt that a volcanic eruption under Yellowstone Lake would blow the treasure chest to bits, no matter the odds, but it might spread a lot of beautiful cutthroat and lake trout around the country side. f

      • Seeker – I think Forrest considered the status of the Yellowstone Caldera, noting these earthquakes, when he hid the bronze chest in the Summer of 2010 (likely per Doug Preston’s observation of when he last saw it in Forrest’s vault):

        “In December 2008, continuing into January 2009, more than 500 quakes were detected under the northwest end of Yellowstone Lake over a seven-day span, with the largest registering a magnitude of 3.9. Another swarm started in January 2010, after the Haiti earthquake and before the Chile earthquake. With 1,620 small earthquakes between January 17, 2010, and February 1, 2010, this swarm was the second-largest ever recorded in the Yellowstone Caldera. The largest of these shocks was a magnitude 3.8 that occurred on January 21, 2010.”

        The last SuperVolcano eruption emitted ash high into the atmosphere. The Yellowstone Caldera boundary is at my WWWH at Madison Junction. Would that boundary of destruction get any larger if the SuperVolcano beneath blows again? Me thinks deeper, not wider. But the bronze chest would be deep within that ash at my hide-y spot. Like the conditions Forrest observed on his exploration of Pompeii.

        All IMO.

        • Lisa,

          My point was, I thought Redneck might have two different ATF-aft mixed into one. That’s a Titanic move when thinking about fenn’s comments.
          As far as YS popping its cork… The chest will be the last thing I’m gonna think about…

          I think there are hints to help with understanding when and why fenn hid the chest, and they involve the blaze directly.
          We are told;
          At age almost eighty. This equates to age 79.
          [ which fenn has also stated as age 79 – 80 ]
          That gives the impression of 2010 for the year of the hide. We also have book release date as a time period to add in. Later fenn stated he hid the chest in Summer. And we know fenn’s birth date of August.
          So, the hiding date can be narrowed down to summer of 2010, respectively. Some may say “Summer” can be May because of warmer weather… yet Summer starts in June [ not just because the calendar say so. There are reasons for this date going back millenniums ]. This leaves a window of mid June to mid August for the task to have been done.

          The question is; Is this information important or usable?
          IMO, the only way to answer that question is to see clues in the poem that may indicate something related to this; Time of Year for the task to be completed.
          I think there is, and it relates to the blaze itself. Not so much what the blaze is as an object, but how it is used to locate the chest.

          IF the theory is correct… those subtle pieces of information kinda implies a correct way of thinking, rather than, the idea of just deciphering clues as a place / location or a direction, only, to complete the task.

          • Hi Seeker: I don’t believe there is anything Forrest has said or written that conclusively excludes the possibility of him hiding the chest in the narrow summer window right after he turned 79 in August 2009 (i.e. from 8/22/2009 – 8/31/2009). However, the “flavor” of his post-hiding conversations in summer 2010 with both Doug Preston and Irene Rawlings suggests the act had been carried out fairly recently — within weeks rather than nearly a year previously.

            One thing we can surmise, assuming he wasn’t lying to BOTH Doug and Irene: he was 79 when he hid the chest.

        • Zap ~’However, the “flavor”…

          I like the way you put that. “flavor” It sound like the idea of; We pick what we [each of us] like best, line of thinking. It almost creates us to have an illusion of how we want the poem to be read, rather than how it was intended.

          This is the way I see many thing stated by fenn.. be it from the book, or ATF’s.
          ** it’s not what I say, It’s what you think I said**

          For any of it to be *helpful or conclusive* in any manner to solving the poem… it should be found while deciphering the poem… right?

          My point… I think it is.
          And in all honesty, its not so clear cut when first read…lol this is not a KiSS moment.
          When we read the poem, the first impression is ‘gone a lone in there’ as a place. Can’t argue that impression. The same for stanza 2… this stanza seems like a place to find; this and that. Again, can’t argue that impression either.
          However, stanza 3 and 4 [ while I got the same impression as the first two stanzas, at first read ] When I read stanza 3 by it self, the first question is have is *from where*?
          Nothing has told me to move from stanza 2. “From there” seems to be a place within stanzas 2 references.
          Stanza 3 talks about a place, not for the meek. My conclusion for a thought process is; stanza 2, or part of, is no place for the meek.

          OK how the heck can that be?…Right?
          Well stanza 3 talks more about situations, than places. This stanza doesn’t have wording like those found in stanza 2… being, take it in, put in, below…
          Stanza 3 is more about descriptors of terms used as feelings or emotions or a situation.
          Meek……. timid, sheepish
          Ever drawing nigh…. coming to an end
          up that famous creek… self explanatory.
          Heavy loads… burden
          Water high… *feeling like* ya can’t keep your head above water.

          While the idea is the two stanzas [ 2 n 3 ] need to connect… who is to say they are of different locations-?- and not part of *how* to finalize the task, of *following* the clues.

          Something Planned for?
          Something observed?
          And if so… why does stanza 3 seem to talk about a situation for doing that?
          These are questions I ask myself.

          I think stanza 4 kicks into *why* we need to have *found* the blaze… a past action… not present or future action.
          This seems to have been done in stanza 2… a place where WWsH, a place with a canyon, a place with a reference to hoB.
          “From there” [in stanza 2] we are told in stanza 4 to finalize our quest; “Look quickly down” Quickly indicates a time factor.
          “But tarry scant” Also indicates a time factor [to linger a short – time]. “with marvel gaze” [Gaze as to ‘look steadily’ and in most case means; for a short to to gaze]

          In this reading of the poem… everything take place in a close related location of stanza 2 and relates to the blaze as part of stanza 2.

          Stanza 3 and 4 related to how the tasked is finished… in this reading of the poem
          Stanza’s 3; deciphering, interpretation of the clues presented;
          FTINPFTM… a situation of an overnight stay. alone, in the mountains [ for some, [city folks] this not a pleasant thought ] “your effort will be worth the could” [hinting to the same].
          TEIEDN… end of the night drawing near by morning light [ hints of riches…a new day arise from the old ]
          TBNPUYC … not an impossible task. But also; in a certain month. The month is important and hinted about, imo.
          ‘Just’ heavy loads and water high.
          This line might have more meaning to what hoB might related to as; heavy loads.
          as well as,
          WH relating to WWsH.

          **Just** meaning; entirely, altogether, completely, exactly, precisely…
          or interpreted as; all relating; revolving around stanza’s 2 physical place[s]. @ WWsH.

          In theory:
          We need WWsH. without it, none of the other clues can be accomplished.
          Without WWsH, hoB is not understood.
          Without WWsH, the blaze can not be discovered. [“wise and found” indicates *knowing* of the discovery]
          Without stanzas 3 n 4 descriptors, we don’t know how to finalize the task.

          IMO… there is no way for a short cut, or complete solve of the clues be done at home, to the *solve* solving of the poem.
          And it seems to me… fenn needed to follow his own created clues, to finalize, where the chest was hidden, in a 10″ sq spot, at his special place he wante the chest to lay in wait.

          I hopefully have shown a month, day, time of day, and reasons for them, within the poem to utilize the blaze. or at the very least… how the blaze itself can be discovered.

          But I’m not holding my breathe that all will see or understand it. Mainly because of the preset notion, kicked off in stanzas 1 and 2, that all clues should be of different location, line of thinking.
          That, imo. is an illusion the readers place on themselves.

          • *** *** *** ***
            SEEK – “But I’m not holding my breathe that all will see or understand it. Mainly because of the preset notion, kicked off in stanzas 1 and 2, that all clues should be of different location, line of thinking. That, imo. is an illusion the readers place on themselves.”
            *** *** *** ***

            If I understand it, your 3rd stanza goes something like this (much simplified)?

            Put in below the home of Brown.

            From there it’s an overnight stay
            And get up as night is ending (before dawn)
            Oh and make sure it’s the right month
            [not sure I get your 4th line reading]

            I don’t see it, though, and I don’t think that’s because of any of the preset-notion-induced illusions you’re projecting (my theoretical area is quite small, doesn’t require much travel by foot or vehicle).

            My spirit guide Waylon Jennings always challenges me to ask myself (of my own ideas, as well as those of others)

            “Are you sure Hank done it this way?”

            On the 3rd stanza, I can definitely see it all as describing a place, a vista even. But a time? I think you really have to stretch the poem’s words beyond any suspension of disbelief to read it that way.

            I don’t think Hank done it this way.


          • Ok JAK.

            You’re following well. But I have been declining my full thoughts of deciphering.
            You can imagine why.
            You got stanza’s 3 first line understood by my perspective. You have the second line as well.
            These two line basically say… stay where you start, and wait till morning light… ok we have a place and a time of day [please tell me you understand a time of *day* includes 24 hours of night and day light I had that argument before that night can’t mean a time of “day”] This is your effort that will be worth the cold, and, if you are brave and in the wood… however, I think that {BAITW} means something else as well. NOPE not saying it again. lol

            NPUYC is the month of June… June was always correct… June is the month when summer starts… June is the solstice…. and now, Summer was the time of year fenn hid the chest [do you see a pattern?] So we have a *month* a *time of month* a *time of season* and *a day*… as well as a time of day.

            Honestly it’s not hard to see June just from the too prior lines IF the theory is correct.
            At age almost 80.. kinda leans to the thought of June, because of the solstice for an overnight stay, and be “precise” in following the clues… the shadow knows.

            Do I know this is the correct style of solving this… hell IDK… but I’m not following the pack either. The stomping 9 different locations [ as many of the posted solves read as ] has failed miserably. [regardless of the size of the stomping area]
            It’s either the wrong way of solving or no one in the modern world can read a map.

            Hence the “planning and observing” part of the solve was born. Because I don’t see those two things talked about in solve on any blog I have been to.

            All I can hope is; I’m thinking the right thoughts. IF not, well, I’m not going to go on 50 trips anywhere just because of a hope n poke.

            Thanks for taking the time to even give it thought, and give a response. Most responses miss the first part.

  7. if you want to remove my blaze – have fun – my blaze is 4 miles long and 5 miles wide

  8. so what if blaze was the perlite that comes from volcanos in the area of No Agua Peaks?

  9. Quick question, I’m going BOTG in early August to a place I think has some potential. I think we went over this previously but I can’t find it now. So did Forrest ever give more details as to how far away the blaze is supposed to be from the treasure? I know he said if you are within 12′ of the treasure you should know it. Of course, the “look quickly down” in the poem seems to indicate the Blaze is elevated like a rock formation or waterfall but I think we had discussion as to whether he said anything about it being a certain distance away from the blaze. I don’t think there was a specific statement but just wanted to make sure. Unless a rock wall is shear I don’t anticipate that the treasure would be right at the base and if it’s a big wall, the crumbly rock and hill slump at the base might be steep and not a place an 80 yr old would scramble up. I’m thinking if you come into site of the blaze you might not want to race up the rockfall to it unless he said a certain distance but instead assess what is in your field of view down below first for hide spots.

    • This is as close as Forrest has come – as far as I know:

      Mr. Fenn: How far is the chest located from the blaze? ~ casey
      Casey, I did not take the measurement, but logic tells me that if you don’t know where the blaze is it really doesn’t matter. If you can find the blaze though, the answer to your question will be obvious. Does that help?f JDA

      • Yup JDA I remember this one. I was thinking we also had another conversation that had a distance. Maybe we did but we disproved it because of this one. Thanks

        • ???

          Bloggers have quoted me as saying that a child could walk up to the treasure. I don’t think that’s an accurate quote because a three year old girl would have a problem without some help. Remember, I was about 80 when I hid the chest, and had to make two trips.f

          • That’s an interesting quote Seeker, I am not sure why him being 80 and having to make 2 trips hinders a 3 year old from walking up to the treasure, if he said a 3 year old would need help to retrieve the treasure it would make more sense to me, but needing help walking up to the treasure, I am not sure what to make of it…

          • From my experience walking off trail, especially in Yellowstone, isn’t like walking in a park. Downed trees, mud, streams, animals. A number of things could cause a 3 year old to need help walking to the treasure.

          • Mark ~’ I am not sure why …I am not sure what to make of it ‘

            Exactly… and it might be just for that the reason, to ask.. why?

            Aaron make a good point about… but I had my kids in the woods at 3 4 5 years of age many times with no problems. Heck, some of our favorite fishing holes had no trails at all to get to. The biggest problem we came across was poison ivy.

          • Hey folks… I’ve always liked this comment because it seems to be a classic example how Fenn takes a question or just throws a little quip out there that twists the answer/words back on the idea itself. The whole *child* idea came about as a second hand comment and stirred up a frenzy at the time. Fenn seemed to fan the flames by simply throwing a 3 year old toddler in the mix… without nixing the original idea. I still believe he was trying to tell folks that the path to the treasure is not overly difficult…but perhaps there are couple of details involved[take your pick] that may not be quite so easy with 42 pounds on your back. Or not…

      • Hi JDA,
        what is your hypothesis about the distance between TC and the blaze?
        Sometimes phrases when Forrest doesn’t give complete answer contain some hidden hints.

        • Hi Andy;

          Interesting question. I have two answers really.
          1) If a shadow is involved, which I now believe it is, a point on the shadow or the end (one end or the other) would “point” to where Indulgence is. So, the length of the shadow would determine “how far” Indulgence would be from the blaze (or the shadow that was created by the blaze).

          2) If, as I think, a “Marking” of some kind is inscribed on a “Tarry Scant” (A stone that is flat on two sides), and this stone sits on top of where Indulgence rests, again, it would be obvious – a matter of inches.

          So, two possibilities – and MAYBE both will hold true – JDA

          P.S. Thanks for the question

          • JDA, thanks for your response.
            I like your second version i.e. inches between the blaze and TC. Maybe Forrest planned to use this flat stone (“Tarry Scant”) as a lid for some crevice/alcove where he was going to have an act of “self-sepulchering” (this stone should protect his body/bones from predators). Now this stone become the blaze and protect TC from accidental finding via visual methods. Not sure about any marking on stone surface – it can attract unwanted attention even from non-searchers.
            I’m still skeptical about your “moving shadow” theory but in my next BOTG I’ll definitely pay more attention to shadows.

          • So what time would you have to be at the Blaze to get the best and most accurate reading of the shadow. Seeing there are only 147 pages in TTOTC that would mean just afternoon? Or is the morning shadow. Just curious? What if the blaze faces east would the shadow cast be shorter than north to south?

          • Travis;

            I am betting on Summer Solstice sunrise – which has already passed for this year – (June 21, 2019 at 0545). For me, a feature on a rock outcrop point(ed) to where Indulgence rests. All is not lost though. A few calculations, use a couple Google Earth tools, and one can reproduce what the shadow probably looked like at that time and date. JMO – JDA

          • Travis, it seems that searchers discount this theory because one would have to be on site at a certain date and time. This would not be true. If a spot is found from the poem, along with a date and time, the shadow created could easily be figured out beforehand. Or, you could simply get the distance. Example, I have a spot along with a time and date. One of the previous clues says something in the effect that I take as getting a 7′ stick. With that stick standing, along with date and time, a shadow is created, making a right triangle. Figuring the shadow would be obvious, but doesn’t mean that I need to actually get that stick, etc. I have my distance from a spot.
            In this hypothetical, I don’t need to be there at a certain time or date, just need the distance from the spot to continue. This is what I think JDA is saying. A type of Indiana Jones in the map room thought.
            If it is so badly needed, the info to cover will be in the poem. So, in a subtle way, the poem would need to have a date and time, and a reference to something needed to make the shadow. The entire poem solve giving the “x” on a map.
            I’m with JDA on this one. There is references to all that is needed, at least from what I get. But the shadow is only part of the overall distance. As I see it, the shadow is an obvious distance that you could probably guess. 80′. But, from what I have, that’s not from the blaze. Of course, I reserve the right to have no idea.
            A distance from the blaze, that would be obvious, to me, would be around 200′. The one positive thing is that there is no way that line 13 is the last clue. The blaze cannot be the last clue. IMO, since that is true, and looking down or around would be obvious, which we would need as a clue to know what to do, it’s most likely there is a little distance. With the 200′, 500′ comments, it seems that one of those would be the answer. Especially if the blaze is the 4th clue.
            The main thing to think about is what to look for when trying to find the blaze. It would need to be in the poem, so either something from that line or marvel gaze isn’t something you have but an actual physical thing, that we don’t waste our time on. If so, then from marvel gaze, we look up. And, whatever is at marvel gaze, it may be of something needed to take, in theory. So back to the shadow idea…Don’t waste time there, just take the whatever and move on. If this is something you take, then it could be destroyed, so the poem would have to have a backup to figuring out a distance. So, whatever the case, the distance is what will be end factor. Shadow and key may be the around 200′ comment. Or, the 9th clue distance. Just a hypothetical thought.

          • The shadow theory as has been described here lately sounds non easy or simple to pull off.

          • FD;

            The elements of how a shadow theory might work, may be simple, (and I think that they are), but finding just the right place, and then figuring out how to interpret what is seen, certainly is not easy. JDA

          • JDA, I agree. But you’re assuming I was talking about that part of pulling off.

            I was still on the designing of the poem clues by f.

          • PoisenIvy: “Example, I have a spot along with a time and date. One of the previous clues says something in the effect that I take as getting a 7′ stick. With that stick standing, along with date and time, a shadow is created, making a right triangle.”

            This is highly problematic, as having a true “date” and “time”, also must include the “year”, as the earth wobbles, and is slowing down in rotation not only in relation to it’s own tilt, but the change in path it takes around the sun… so that in 1000 years, that 7 ft stick shadow will no longer point to a spot that it pointed to 1000 years before, which is actually not the ‘same’ time frame as before, as the earth would also be in a fully different position. long story short, time is relative to a reference… not only in time, but in position. (not that we would care, because a 7ft stick would not create more than a “several steps” shadow before it wondered so far and blurred so much that it would be a guess to know where it was pointing to anyway. (and that is assuming one can get the stick to be exactly vertical, or some other predetermined angle) not that the ground on which it lay wouldn’t have moved some unrecoverable distance)

            We certainly wouldn’t need that stick as we would be within several steps anyway and apparently close enough that ff couldn’t imagine us NOT finding the chest. (the 12′ comment) both comments about distance suggesting within “several steps” is what we need.. rather than a small pointing device for precision, maybe a very wide “stick/rock”.. then the changes in the earth wouldn’t matter much at all,

            while Indiana Jones movie is a great movie, the shaft of light would actually point to a different building… and for a more substantial reality check, the shafts built into the pyramids pointing to stars, those no longer point to the same stars.

        • I am still not convinced a shadow has anything to do with it! IMO…..
          if he FF had answered a question of which way the blaze is facing and his comment was “something” to the effect of he didn’t take a bearing . So I can’t see how a shadow if any shadow at all would point in any direction if FF didn’t take a bearing off of the blaze I think a shadow is a rabbit hole and a very deep one …Again in my humble opinion

          • Travis;

            Sorry, your statement makes no sense. You are implying (or stating) “a shadow if any shadow at all would point in any direction” Of course, a shadow points in a direction. Look at a sundial, or the shadow off of the corner of your house – it points in a direction doesn’t it? Sure, it changes direction as the earth rotates, but isn’t that what Forrest also said, something to the effect that it doesn’t point N,S,E or W? Of course not, it is always moving.
            Just sayin – JDA

          • two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead

            We should have buried Skippy standing up.

            Skip “p” leaves you with “Y”.

            Stand Skippy up (Y), one standing up, (alive), one on the ground dead, (shadow).
            Just a thought on the top of my head.

            He did say it is not facing any of those directions, (N,S,E,W). Still have NE,NW,SE,SW. The blaze can still be pointing in one of these directions. I’m not in the camp that the shadow goes from the blaze, but possible.


            Don’t over complicate… don’t force your solve …

            Having the shadow theory I think it’s a waste of time.

            X marks the spot ask Thunderose!
            She said it herself.

          • Travis – an interesting set of “Facts” you posted – since I saw nothing that said it was your opinion – just sayin’ – JDA


            Hey Juan’s down that hole it’s your time and money. I won’t waste any more time on this foolish subject. IMO..

      • I never liked that answer from f. He said (paraphrased) that one who
        finds the blaze can find the treasure. Too vague and unhelpful a claim,
        as far as I’m concerned. But good luck to us all. All IMO.

      • Do you remember reading that FF said that (paraphrasing) — if you can find the blaze, you can find the treasure. — ?

        I always take that with a big grain of salt. He may have meant that the treasure is not the bronze chest and goodies in it.

        Vaguary seems to be FF’s forte. Caveat emptor. All IMO.

    • Whenever the threads get bungled up with which quote is which and who said what when… I refer back to this piece of advice… “All of this cyberspace verbiage is conspicuous by the absence of talk about where warm waters halt.”

      I say this this because the constant disconnect about the [blaze] and the details in regards to it makes me believe that a searcher will absolutely know these things if their deciphering/figuring/learning of the preceding clues are correct. If no one is going to *stumble* upon/over the treasure… that points to the idea of moving to [the place/spot] with more than hope and a wish. The word confidence comes to mind…or nothing about it will be accidental/happenstance.

      The three year old girl comment is a rather broad descriptor… but leaves the door open to plenty of speculation for sure.

      • Sorry Dal.
        My comment from Fenn is a comment he posted on [Stephan Returns To the Blaze. It was on Sept. 26 2012]
        He goes on to say…”Several months ago some folks correctly mentioned the first two clues to me in an email…” Say what ? This whole comment from Fenn is a doozy from my standpoint…

        I like showing the reference this way so that folks need to work a bit to get to it… who knows what else might pop up while getting to it. There’s some good reading… if one wants to do the leg work.

      • Ken ~’I say this this because the constant disconnect about the [blaze]…’

        I get what you’re saying overall in your post.
        But do we really know if there is a different place for the chest and for the blaze?
        Sure IF we have everything deciphered properly, then we should know. Kinda an obvious thing, right?

        So, while the little girl comment is a broad comment… speculation of this comment and others should be thought of… imo.
        This is not unlike many comments that we get, in bits n pieces, over the years.
        How about the comment; And I can tell you an 80-year-old man is not going to make a trip into a canyon, then come up and go down again.
        When the question was related to; who else knows.

        Does that comment have anything to do with the first “two” clues-?- or a simple broad statement?

        Speculation of a single comment -ATF, aft- is a disconnected, imo.
        But attempting to resolve a possible thought process for the poem, could involve a few, if not many, of those comments [ even if they weren’t stated back to back ]

        Why is everyone stumped at clues 3 4?
        Why can’t Little Indy [ or anyone on else ] can not get closer than the first two clues [ with the tools suggested in the Q&A] ?
        Why is there a physical present needed after the first few clues?
        Why did fenn follow his own created clue to a place he knows so well he didn’t need a map to write about it?…….. some of those comments don’t seem related to the other. right?

        Individually, disconnected from other comments, they don’t seem too important, or so open-ended, guessing is all we have to go on.
        Put them ‘together’ and we have something to *think* about.
        Our problem is; we get those comments spread out over a span of time… and we might lose the connection of them or about them… when other comments pop up to dissect as well.

        Do we know if the chest is not at the spot of the blaze?
        Do we know if the blaze is not at WWsH [ be whatever their deciphered clue reference truly is ].

        I mean, with four clues that might have been solve…almost 1/2 the clues…. why is it, that we still are not sure or have a good notion of, having solved anything? That alone says a lot…

        I personally don’t think most of statement, comments, Q&A’s ATF’s-aft are that far apart or disconnected from each other. They should hold some truth to each other, overall… no matter why or when the statements [ATF-aft] where made.

        • I’ll point out the comment from Fenn to *Outa Here* over on MW… May 4, 2017
          “Stop arm chairing that thing to death and get out in the trees where the box is, but before you go, look at the poem as if it were a map, because it is, and like any other map, it will show you where to go if you follow it’s directions.”

          First… I found this extremely comical with all of the commas… and seemingly appropriate given the high traffic comments at the time about punctuation. One poster even breaking it down[the poem] classroom style[kinda sorta]. And then later telling us he removed all of the commas after the fact on a subsequent SB or sumpin.

          Back to the quote… Before you go, see the map[the clues in the poem] and then get out there and follow the directions from the map[the deciphered clues]. From there it is speculation and a personal choice as to how far the [map/poem] takes you. I do not believe it is a botg solve…especially given the other available ATF … at all. Sure… I believe that the searcher needs to physically find the {blaze} and then complete the task. Call me crazy… or whatever floats your boat… but I think the information is in the poem to plan the job…. and then go act it out. A correct solve gets a searcher within several steps of the target.

          • KEN , HI , i`m John [ JPE ] on this blog , i just want to say that i too believe that a searcher can get very close to chest with correct solve { at home with poem , map , ttotc , and GE } maybe within inches .

          • Hi JPE…John. There are a few quotes worth tracking down that I think supports the idea that all of the clues can be deciphered without going botg. Like I also said above… I believe that the clues get a searcher to the blaze… after that the distance to the treasure will be obvious according to Fenn. Happy hunting to you… and I think there are many inches involved.

          • Ken,
            [ in part ]
            ~ ” Rocking chair ideas can lead one to the first few clues, but a physical presence is needed to complete the solve. Google Earth cannot help with the last clue. ” {MWs}

            How can a rocking chair theory, as you said; * that I think supports the idea that all of the clues can be deciphered without going botg.*
            When fenn said; a physical presence is need after a *the first* few clue. I can’t fathom a few clues to be, what, 8 clues?

            I think taking the idea that GE can’t help with the last clue, is a bit of a stretch, to think all other clues can be deciphered at home as well.
            Even the Q&A [ located on this blog Italy’s Q&A ] asking about how many can be solved at home was answered theoretically… all of them, “but not in practice”

            I had thought the same as you just stated… lol… still hope it might be true [it would make my job a lot easier] But it’s just a hope.
            Fenn followed his own created clues to complete the poem [original quote can be found on {MW}]… tells us; after the first few clues a physical presents is needed.

            Even I can’t dissect and/or dance around that.. no matter how I try.

            ***Following guide lines***… the above comment is to be considered fake news until prove not fake by a supreme court constitutional ruling… or the chest is located.
            Where’s Ronald Regan when ya really need him?

          • Hi Seeker: you focus on the “but not in practice” portion of Forrest’s answer while I focus on the “All of them in theory” portion. Ask yourself how both can be true? Seems to me there is only one way: that all of the clues can be solved from home BUT (somewhat obviously) you need to physically be there to carry out that solution and retrieve the treasure.

            If Forrest says solving all the clues is *theoretically* possible while BITC (butt in the chair), then the real question is how could that possibly be true IF you needed to be physically present to solve one or more clues? The two are incompatible.

          • Seeker,

            To answer the quote you posted, ” Rocking chair ideas can lead one to the first few clues, but a physical presence is needed to complete the solve. Google Earth cannot help with the last clue. ” {MWs}

            “but a physical presence is needed” in that quote may be just to retrieve the chest. Where do you draw the line of “the first few clues” in that quote? He could of meant the first 8 clues, couldn’t he?

          • The Lure interview 5/18/2017
            “You’re going to have to figure out the clues. Go to the first clue, and then the clues are consecutive after that. If you can decipher the clues, you’re gonna find that treasure chest.”

            Sounds pretty simple… doesn’t it? He said rocking chair… I’m sitting in my office chair and it looks different from here.

            Seriously though, I have about ten other quotes and quips lined up that take it beyond what you are saying. Is it wishful thinking? Perhaps… but right now it feels almost sane. I keep going back to his [cyberspace verbiage] 2012 comment and tying subsequent tidbits together. It seems apparent that early searchers flew off almost immediately to the correct general area[first two clues] but did not have the full grasp of what those clues really meant as they were intended. Why is that? I think their idea was 180 degrees out of sync and went completely off track. Later, by a couple of years, Fenn seems to indicate someone [maybe] went the correct direction but they didn’t know it[not sure] and then the line goes dead in that regard. No progress that he has been willing to share. Heck… Fenn’s [Let’s coin a new phrase] comment even seems to give a thumbs up to being able to get as far as the blaze and even uses the word *solve*. I’m patient… maybe even a potential patient, so I am willing to keep dissecting and projecting every scrap I can dig up.

          • 19)How will I know if I have the clues right before my family and me drives out to get the treasure?

            You probably won’t


            That does not sound like confidence. Also, does not sound like all the clues can be solved from home. And that’s with the assumption that the searcher knows what references are used to solve/identify the clues. How could a searcher leave in confidence with the thought that they do not know the answers to some of the clues? Especially if you need a prior clue to solve for a clue?
            All of the clues can be solved in theory. You can have your path to take you to the chest, along that path will be the clues, easily referenced from the poem, but,
            In practice, NO. He has not furnished some of the answers to some of the clues. So, if you are trying to solve clues, in practice, you have no chance. The answers are just not there. They will require BotG, where from the path you are taking, the (observed clues) will be seen. There is nothing that says what the blaze is, or what it looks like, so how could you solve it when f has stated that he has not given the answer to it in a subtle way? Aimlessly walk around and find it?

            It is a stronger case to think that not all the clues can be solved from home. If you are into needing to solve every clue, then you are in for a tough battle. To get one clue wrong, or mess up on what you actually think is a clue, then the solve is nothing. And, to know that you won’t know the answers to some of the clues, well, then you have nothing, IMO.

          • p ivy… that Q from Fenn does not deter me one bit. It does indicate in a powerful way that the odds are pretty steep though. Fenn can feel very confident saying that given the success rate up to the point of that particular answer.

            I’m ever the optimist and not inclined to be convinced by a couple of errant comments. I think there are more than a few that lean in the opposite direction from those. Good hearing from you c.

          • Zap, a theory can be defined as a ideal or hypothetical set of facts. Knowing that, along with the final clue quote, we could safely say one ore more clues need to be solved on site.

          • Hi Aaron: the way I view “All of them, in theory” is that to make that statement it must be theoretically possible to solve all 9 clues. Or put another way, it is not impossible that a searcher could solve all 9 clues from home. That in itself is helpful information because it eliminates a lot of possibilities for the final clue. It means the final clue (or even clues, as you suggest) must be of a type that a searcher could correctly guess (if not outright solve). But if the solution requires facts that are ONLY obtainable on site, then the armchair searcher is out of luck, and therefore theoretically solving all the clues is impossible.

            Ultimately, I think searchers should ask themselves why Forrest didn’t simply answer “Most of them, but not all.” Why leave the door open to the possibility that all 9 could be solved if they can’t be? Also, why at no time does he say you must be physically present to solve the final clue(s)? Instead he says “a physical presence is needed to complete the solve.”

            If the treasure is obscured by something (e.g. in the fashion of the hidden pottery bowl at San Lazaro Pueblo), then clearly one would need to be present to carry out the act of clearing that obscuration — something that can’t be done while sitting in your rocking chair. But that doesn’t preclude figuring out in advance that, say, the ninth clue will involve locating a specific object (too small to be seen on GE) whose nature you’ve figured out as a consequence of solving the poem. In that particular case, would you say you’ve “solved” the ninth clue because you know what you’re looking for, and you know approximately where you’ll find it?

          • That is the way I see it Zaphod. ‘Complete the solve’ refers to the chest recovery from its hidden location. That could be an instruction and not necessarily a clue.

          • How much progress can be made by someone just thinking and searching the Internet from home? (Anot–her way of saying this: How many clues can only be decoded in situ?) 
            FF: All of them, in theory, but not likely in practice. A searcher must go to the site to find the treasure.

            Situ means in the original, natural place. If you look at the question; it involves internet search [ I guess we can call that part GE ] And… ” How many clues can only be decoded in situ? ” — being in an natural place.

            The question left out clues that don’t have a place. It didn’t allow for clues to be directions, instructions etc.

            Jump back to the first part of the question; It asked how much *progress can be made at home*… nothing about clues… just the process.

            IMO. fenn answer the question backwards. *In theory, all of them*… to be situ [ place], or clues that actually have physical references.

            *But not in practice*… how much can be done at home. A searcher must go to the site.

            The main question that I don’t recall seeing or as been asked… are all the clues references physical places?

          • When I critique a solve, others or my own, I just get the poem and put it in front of me. I then use just the poem to see if a searcher is using the poem for a solve. The second I have to look something up, get a map to see where I’m at, or whatever, that is when you get away from the poem and IMO, is no good for a solve. I look for the searcher using the poem, and the poem only, to find a place, the “x” on a map. I don’t look for clues or how they solve clues or decipher them, just how they solve the poem. We could debate back and forth all day long, whether you can solve all clues or not, does not matter, it’s the solve of the entire poem that is what we are suppose to be doing. We obviously can be confident when we leave our house, so whether we know all the clues or not, in solving the poem, we will find the chest. When it is said that we will follow the clues, that should be an obvious because of the path we will take. He could not give the answer to wwwh, but we could figure a start spot. Is that how to solve the first clue, maybe. Whatever the case, we have 24 lines that we must solve in order to have a chance to find clues. All the outside info is great, but only once you have solved the poem. And all you need is the poem. It just seems to me that there is not enough room in the poem to explain away all the clues, and hints. Nothing in the poem blurts out the answers, so it is obvious that the solve is hidden in the poem in a subtle way. That means that there is an underlining solve, we all know this. It very well may be that the underlining solve gets you to a place but none of that solve uses clues.
            If you take everything away that has been said, and only have the poem, would you worry about trying to solve clues or would you try to find that subtle solve within the poem?
            When you police your solve, just put the poem and the poem in front of you and go thru your solve. If you have to get any other information while you go down the poem, maps, dictionaries, etc… then it is not a good solve, period. If you can explain your solve with just the poem, and only the poem, then you are looking at a possible solve. After you are done, then you can fine tune with ATF’s and maps to confirm.
            whether you can solve all the clues from home or not is irrelevant. The only thing that needs to be done is to find a way to solve the poem. At the core, the poem is what needs to be followed precisely, the clues will present themselves if you follow the poem.

    • Wishin-I-Was-Fishin – Where the treasure is NOT, IMO:

      That’s outside of Cody, WY. Even though Forrest said he could go get it in any weather, and even though Dal happens to have an ice axe.

      Giggles. Nice pic.

  10. All-
    You are getting lax while using quotes …
    When you quote Forrest…don’t just put his words down…also reference the quote…that is, put a link to its source so that other’s can look it up and read or listen to it themselves in situ and so that its accuracy can be easily checked.

    such as with JDA’s comment above-
    Mr. Fenn: How far is the chest located from the blaze? ~ casey
    Casey, I did not take the measurement, but logic tells me that if you don’t know where the blaze is it really doesn’t matter. If you can find the blaze though, the answer to your question will be obvious. f

    Always add the link or give the best directions you can so readers can find the quote…

    • Good point Dal. I noticed but since I have TS I can usually find them.
      No reply buttons to some post.
      Mark. You bring up good
      Thoughts about the child. I have always been bothered by that. Why only a little girl and not a child. And troubles because maybe you don’t walk up to the TC literally or not. Or your a girl.
      I find this to be of something helpful but I can’t make of it. Maybe FF just thought of a little girl when he stated
      Any good ideas please post.
      Only commenting on what I read above.

  11. For myself who can’t even spell babe ruth correctly, OOPS. The first 2 clues can use a
    few different things. Not sure what FF was using. The next five are specific. Ending at
    the blaze. How to use it and get past it in the poem makes no sense. It is a block.
    Then you are given the solve. After you get past the blaze. imagination is better than
    knowledge. But the point and purpose is a Grand scale thing. From what I believe. IMO.
    Did the TTOTC help me. Yes and No. use intuition . looking back at that book.
    one piece of literature not in the book. it’s nothing and everything at the same time. one thing stated several times and a word that means nothing. TFTW one direct hit I think he may regret saying not sure. Possibly more. . I could so easily be wrong it is easy to
    fit the poem to many places in all four states. That’s why I am leaving being wrong open
    for myself. There are really good ideas out there too.
    Stay safe in the mountains.

    • I forgot, I believe one of the biddies is in the poem. It can’t be solved without her. All just in my opinion. I am sure I forgot something else too.
      Well that’s about it for me. Like it could help or something.
      I like the web site what can I say. IMO..
      Stay safe..

  12. in my opinion I believe the Blaze is a mountain in Montana and the marvelous gaze is Mirror Lake that you can see from the top of Blaze Mountain

  13. My favorite “blaze” is a large slab of petrified wood in a location that seems to fit all of the clues. It’s maybe 3 feet by 3 feet by two feet, and it’s blazing bright colors stand out in the forest quite dramatically. It’s just one thing. It doesn’t “face” any direction per se. It’s possible to move it, but due to its weight, I wouldn’t suggest trying. There’s a slope below it with lots of little hidey holes. Be brave, not petrified, and in the “wood,” not “woods.” There’s also no chest there.

  14. I believe that when the searcher is walking into the WOOD from NPFTM that THE END IS EVER DRAWING NIGH means to be looking to the left for the BLAZE , when you see the BLAZE , you go toward it [ left ] TBNPUYC because you turned before you got to the creek and also when you turn left you just stepped into HL and WH . then LOOK QUICKLY DOWN as you start your walk to the BLAZE . to get to the BLAZE you will walk right over the chest . not just an opinion but my belief …..

  15. poisenivy… It seems you are talking in circles about solving the poem. Fenn has told us that all of the information is in the poem for all to see. He has also stressed that good research materials are TTOTC, GE and/or a good map. We’ve also learned that he likes to play with words and even looks up their meanings. Why would we not utilize any of the above mentioned tools if we have been told to do so?

    I do agree that the ATF are speculative and need to be used with an open mind… and probably best only after getting a good grip on a potential solve.

    Here’s a good Fenn comment for Seeker from MW Q’s with Forrest 6/25/2014;
    Hi, Did the same 9 clues exist when you were a kid and to your estimation will they still exist in 100 years and 1000 years? Thanks~ Ron
    “Thanks Ron, thoughtful questions. The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might still exist in 100 years…f” This quote seems to validate the existence of [places] in reference to the clues… at least more than two… and also at least one of that number did not.

    • Place; a particular position or point in space.
      ;holding a specified position in a sequence
      Place { geography } A place’s absolute location is defined with latitude and longitude lines.
      Just as small recap: “places” Ken.
      Of course there are some clues that reference places.
      However, The Q&A doesn’t validate all clues are of places… Like you said; at least more than two.
      I agree but maybe not all.

      But the position of a clue as a place can be of a relatively small local. I mean, geography is not all about large areas. A place in geography, has it’s position as Lat. n Long., yet still be the size of a mountain’s – peak [ for reference of the entire mountain ] or a place for a tree somewhere on said mountain.
      A valley can be of it’s own place, and have many places of different references within… right? My main point is; Do we need to go to them all-?-regardless of how many there are?

      The other point I try to make is; Not all clues have to be places.
      Example; a particular position or point in space; situation
      ~”the monastery was a peaceful place”

      In the above dictionary example the idea of a peaceful place can be a monastery. Yet, it’s about any monastery, and not any particular one /or *it’s geographical location*.

      “From there” indicates a “place” already known of {hoB} It’s no place for the meek, can be of a situation… not unlike the monastery being a peaceful situation.

      Situation; *a set of circumstances in which one finds oneself* …
      :the location and surroundings of a place.
      “the situation of the town is pleasant”

      I find it very interesting ya’ll call fenn a wordsmith, he tells us every word was deliberate, tells us it took a decade and a half to get the poem just as he wanted, yet only think the wording as simplistic. Are we not supposed to analyze and think-?- about the “poem” [it’s words and meaning of those words.]

      SF podcast [ 11 minutes in ] “it’s not a matter of trying, it’s a matter of thinking… Sure, I mean people figured the first couple of clues and unfortunately walked passed the treasure chest”
      What is it folks are not thinking about??? I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say, many try to simplify the clue by only ‘hoping’ all clues ‘must’ be of Physical Different Places, and not the situation of a Place [examples above].
      I think we are creating an illusion of what we read the poem as vs, a possible intended reading of the poem.
      It’s not what I say.. it’s what you think I said, line of thinking.

      “The blueprint is challenging so the treasure may be located by the one who can best adjust. To illustrate my point go to YouTube – Smarter Every Day. f “… {MWs}

      A Blueprint is not directions in the simplest term [a course along which someone or something moves].
      A blueprint is of instructions to build from. [detailed information telling how something should be done.. a guide]

      Now add in “planning and observation” as we are told to do.

      Q~ Forrest, you talk about the clues being difficult to solve (opposite being easy) yet that the solutions are simple (opposite being complex). Yet when I read the stories of other searchers, I often think that their solutions to the clues tend to be either easy solutions or made out to be very complex and over-thought. Are there any suggestions you would give in approaching the clues and solving them? ~Craig
      A ~ Craig, there is no substitute for thinking and planning and observing and looking at maps, unless it’s the desire to keep it simple.f

      • I was very general about the number of [places] because I believe that is up to the individual to decide. I’ll also add that it makes sense that the chosen definition of {place] should perhaps be consistent throughout.

        Here are a few other synonyms for place; spot, location, zone, area, position, locale, point and a whole host of others. If we are trying to nail down the starting point… which is obviously a particular place and we ultimately are working to find the special spot[ another place]… that equates to two places. I cannot reconcile that the actual starty place ends up being the hidey place… the 500 and 200 foot comments would then be in violation of keeping the ATF true to each other.

        I’m not advocating that each clue is an actual place as some of the clues seem to be directional/situational. Plotting out the clues that are places on a map from the nailed down start place seems like the most advantageous method. This would produce the correct path to the final resting place.

        As far as your simplistic comment and Fenn being a wordsmith… I think it boils down to the fact that Fenn has been very clever throughout the entire process… a well thought out plan. The cryptic poem presented in simple book sold only in Santa Fe and kick started by limited media exposure with a continued flood of comments and interviews for 9 plus years. The situation has become exasperated by his continuous answers to mediocre questions[some have been excellent] and a host of other side shows created by individuals. It becomes more difficult to shade all of that out and keep the facts in order.

        Blueprint can be defined from a few different perspectives. I keep aligned with the idea that the poem is a map[ like fenn has said], and that we need to follow its directions[the poem/map]… directions; instructions that tell how to go to a place.

        • Ken: if there was a “like” button on Dal’s, I’d definitely have tagged this post of yours. Cogent!

          • Well Zap… apparently it was invalid and weak… as you can see by the post that [followed] ! That is just how I see things

          • Jake: when I have my next complete end-to-end solution. I’m almost there, but unfortunately this isn’t horseshoes. Well wait … I suppose it sort of is… 😉

          • That grenade is just one state over, with a long but indeterminate fuse… 😉

          • I hope you’re not giving up on SW Montana.
            I think I got ya. Fuse in WY, bomb in MT.

        • I’ll agree,
          This was a 5* statement by ken that I agree with including the “but before you go” statement.
          Where did that piece of straw between your teeth go?

      • Ken ~’I cannot reconcile that the actual starty place ends up being the hidey place… the 500 and 200 foot comments would then be in violation of keeping the ATF true to each other.’

        Actually it can. It’s called a place{s} within a place, idea.
        We don’t know the size of WWsH enough to pin point it to be a very small location.

        Where you have point along a path idea as, different locations, I have places within the location of WWsH.

        That thought alone allows searcher to pass by remaining clues and the chest when leaving the poem; to mean both; physically leaving WWsH and leaving the idea of not following the instructions.

        We tend to call clues land features. I think that is fair. I also think that a land features can be of a larger land feature… contiguous to each other.
        The main point is for the reason WWsH needs to be… without it we have nothing, right? It a point to point theory any point [ if can be solved on it’s own ] can be a place to start.
        That’s my other point; can we actually solve later clues without WWsH?
        Not unlike the reverse engineering question… it implies if you * know * hoB why be concerned about WWsH? The answer wasn’t about can we solve hoB, the answer was about going back to WWsH [ reverse engineering ] … well, sure you can *IF* we *know* what hoB is.

        The same can be said for; retrieving the chest in any weather… it sure seems like we can by fenn’s comment… but only *IF* we know *exactly* where it is, right? The comment never posed the idea of following the clues in any weather.

        We also have the idea of; an 80 year old is not going down and up a canyon and down again. IMO, this is where the searchers [ before and as of date ] are stumped, because, of a simple misinterpretation of “take it in” the canyon down. They left WWsH and the places the clues are at…
        Only in the ides of stomping point to point, as searcher could travel any X amount of feet and miles And still get 200′ from the chest. The problem is; *IF* and that is a big IF, a searcher can discover a later clue and be correct {situ}… there is no need for WWsH to be “The” clue to nail down or stay home.

        So it all falls down to the idea of, why-?- a physically presents is needed after solving the first few clues?
        I mean, IF it is possible to locate hoB [situ]… clue one is not at all necessary to have, as a place to start out at. LOL if that can be accomplished, telling all we need the first clue nailed down or stay home, have nothing, don’t have anything, can not be a true statement to the idea *all* the clues are found on a map.

        Even the Little Indy comment implies no one can not get closer than the first two clues [with the poem and a map of the RMs’] I mean, folks have been on site and indicated the first two clues. But here is where it all seems to fall apart.
        Sure, we don’t know exactly what was relayed to fenn from this point.. but we have a very good guess to what they might have done if they did the same stomping process we all chat about on almost every blog.

        This will be my last post. To be honest… there is no chatter about possibilities and WhatIF… only the names of places are changed, over and over and over again and all with the same results.
        That is a serious lack of adjustment in my book. I have nothing I can add to those discussions. I’m looking to read the poem as the author might intended… playing hide and seek with names of places doesn’t seem to be the correct [ 9 years running ] method.

        • but before you go, look at the poem as if it were a map, because it is, and like any other map, it will show you where to go…

          • I hope Seeker will take your advice, ken. I enjoy reading what he offers for discussion.

        • Seeker;

          You say, “This will be my last post.” I certainly hope not. We have not always agreed, but you have kept us thinking. If, in fact, this is your last post, I will miss your presence and interesting thought processes very much.

        • Seeker – please don’t blow out your candle and leave us in the dark. Everything you say is “food for thought.” Some people just prefer to eat something different.

          Now if we were talking CHOCOLATE, I think we all would agree, don’t you?

          • Come on Seeker.
            You can’t leave. Maybe cut back a little, but not for good. We would all miss you too much!

        • Seeker: “I’m looking to read the poem as the author might intended”

          Isn’t that what everyone is doing?

          • Every word minus a “Scant” in the poem has meaning. No his words don’t mean what they say. Much deeper! His words are like Mikes Tea. Harder than they appear! Not for face value.

        • Hey Seeker, I get ya man. Sometimes you need to just let go of the reins and see where the horse takes you. Many years ago I read “Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry into Values ” by Robert Pirsig. I was at first enthralled with the content and then horrified when Robert described what his incredibly deep and focused thought on “values” actually did to him.

        • come on seeker togather we started this trip and togather right or wrong we need to finish it togather – you have a lot of searchers that want you to stay

        • Seeker, it may be your last post . . . until you post again. Big whoop. Still, y’all probably deserve a long vacation from posting here (as do many other people). I think I want to take a long break myself, and probably soon will. Good luck to everyone. As always, IMO.

        • Seeker,

          As you are one of the few whose posts I always read you will be missed. Catch you on the FlIp Side brother.


        • Hi Seeker,
          I don’t understand the reason why you don’t want to participate in blog discussions anymore. I’m here only several months but still think that this blog is very informative and useful for both old and new searchers. You, JDA, Dal and other avid searchers in your posts share your experience and mistakes with other searchers. They ask you questions or share their ideas and you answer/discuss them.
          Nobody knows when and where TC will be found (well, Forrest knows only where) but the chase itself is very good motivation just for visiting so many beautiful places in Rockies. One my solution was in Colorado and it was perfect out-of-trails adventure for me and my kids. Still don’t have any solution for New Mexico but most likely will think about and get some in nearest future.
          So, I join to people who will miss you and your posts on this blog.

        • You may want to let go, but I don’t think your sub-conscious will let you do it. You’ve been in this too deep, too long & have created synaptic patterns. When you least expect it, you will suddenly have some really new insight … and we’ll be here waiting to hear it. Have a good rest… see you in again in 2020.

        • Seeker—
          I don’t post a whole lot. But I’d be sorry to see you go. Your thinking is very intuitive. If you don’t post I hope you keep in the Chase just the same. All the best!

        • Seeker,
          It has been may moons since I last posted. Today, I am 35,000 feet above those surly bonds of earth enroute to be with my brother who did over 15 BOTG’s in Montana. It wasn’t a lack of motivation but his Parkinson’s has not kicked in and his BOTG days are gone. He is surer it is in Montana, though, not far from where FF’s mom passed away. Common seeker, it’s in your blood. We are all counting on you. P.S. JDA, good to see you’re still cookin’

  16. Lets just think about this. Is anyone actually listening to anything. Most of all myself guilty as all. Mr. Fenn. Speaks in interviews answers questions on QA why would he try so hard for 9 years to help people solve it. Maybe that’s just who he is. Why does he owe us anything. Even with all the complaints ,disagreement and accusations he stayed with his Chase.
    He removed himself from QA why. Nobody home out there. Just searchers tripping over there own two feet. Myself for sure.
    Maybe searchers like Seeker have come to be as the poem says tired and weak.
    I’ve asked myself several times if I solve it am I deserving of it. No more then anyone else.
    Sorry to see those with such insite and a passion to help others leave the site but understandable. I to am ready for a break.
    Even though I have not posted often and had little information to offer. I have enjoyed the information posted and some of the folks here, my apologies to Dal for not following the rules.
    If there is a finder out there I hope they are someone like Mr. Fenn. Shoes that no one else could wear. The Blaze plate of beans campfire and a bottle of grapette and some old cowboy stories. That’s my guess.

    Good hunting to you all.

  17. I’m guessing the treasure chest sits 242 feet from a paved road. The blaze is back to back C’s which form a hooked X or perhaps BB for bubba.. All those “wells” in TTOTC indicate black gold, texas tea oil wells. I’m of the opinion Forrest was great at knowing what to invest in, including oil & gas, and real estate. Say’s he loved playing monopoly (not the board game).

  18. All,

    If the blaze doesn’t face any particular direction maybe we ought to be asking: must we searchers be facing a particular direction form which we are to look quickly down from it?


    • Blaze doesn’t face N,S,E,or W. For me, I look up from marvel gaze. And yes, must be facing SW.

  19. as you are walking toward the blaze, and you are going north, the flames will be going toward you. my blaze is 4 miles long and its 5 miles wide , where am I going to stop and look quickly down if the place is on flat ground, that’s my blaze out of a whole bunch

    • I like it Frank. In one of my solves the blaze could only be seen from above, and it looks like lightning, and is a mile or two long.

      • thanks Sparrow – well at least you have the right idea of what the blaze should look like. in my opinion – so good luck on the chase

  20. My wife and I will be heading to the Rockies in September. I wanted to share how the “Blaze” and “Look quickly down” relates to this particular solve.

    – We will be walking parallel to a creek going up in elevation. From Google maps I can see that it is probably possible to do this. You never know until you have BOTG.
    – As we reach a certain point we will go in a clockwise direction (“If you’ve been wise”) toward the creek and on top of a small out-cropping of rocks. It doesn’t look very large or dangerous on Google maps but we won’t know until we get there. This out-cropping isn’t right at the creek edge but not too far away.
    – We hope that as we stand on the out-cropping and look down roughly toward the direction we came we will see a “Blaze” maybe no more that 12-15 feet away. We won’t know what that “Blaze” might be until we see it but I believe if it is there it will be obvious.
    – We will look under the out-cropping hoping to find a large enough area for maybe a person to fit and the treasure. “Look quickly down” meaning the treasure will be below our feet as we stand on the out-cropping.

    Safe and happy searching everyone!

  21. If Seeker has truly “thrown in the towel” I will eat my hat, well, who is gonna second guess and analyze our failed solutions the way he has done? Zap? JDA? Ken..need I continue this line of thought…well

    OK we cant stop you Seek…but remember this, someone has been very close, within 200′ and left the poem, is that what you are doing, leaving the poem..Seek?

    Once you have memorized it, memorized it, IT sticks in your brain, just like a train, you Seek have been on the right track to cracking this IMHO because you use critical thought processes, and you are better than me at it, although I am Terrific, even in your farewell address above the idea that your leaving forevermore is one of desperation, and you have been so good at dissemination, you may leave now, but like the song says: “You can take the boy out of the country, but you can’t take the country out of the boy”…Good Luck, gonna miss ya!


  22. So the blaze is a single object, it might not face North, South, East or West. Maybe it sits at an angle, or faces up or down. If a searcher finds the blaze the location of the chest will be obvious. No one will find the chest by accident, well then, how prominent can the blaze be?

    • Hi James, you are asking very important question: how prominent can the blaze be? IMO but most likely that the blaze is not prominent at all. As JDA said it can be just flat stone lying on the ground (maybe it has some inscriptions on the surface).
      IMO but it’s too premature to build too many hypotheses about blaze color, size, positions etc. The search for the blaze will start only after you have solved the hoB. I think it’s most important riddle that was specially coded by Forrest with purpose to make it very difficult to crack. It looks like that nobody send Forrest correct solution what is the hoB (JDA will correct me if I’m not right here).
      Many searchers think that it’s useless to have BOTG if you don’t have a complete solution. Can’t completely agree with them – you should go there if you have solved WWWH, CD and the hoB.
      But even if you know correct hoB the chase for TC will take a lot of time.

      • Hi Andy;

        Not correcting you, just posting what I found:

        Are there signs that people are getting closer to solving your puzzle? How many clues have people solved now?
        Searchers have come within about 200 feet. Some may have solved the first four clues, but I am not certain.”f

        If someone has solved clue #4, they have probably solved hoB – “but I am not certain.” 🙂 JDA

        • This quote is a fun one to think about. He isn’t certain that people solved the first four clues, but he thinks they may have. It sounds like that searchers that told him where they were, were in the area of clue four but didn’t specify their solution of clue 4. To paraphrase, he has mentioned that nobody has told him the clues in the correct order. Is it possible that they wondered into the area of clue 4, and because they were not precise in the order they missed the exact spot? Let’s say clue four is PIBTHOB. If the hoB is a large area then it could be easy to get the put in spot wrong if they missed clue 3. Any thoughts?

          • Aaron, I agree with your version – it is obviously that searchers that were 200-500 feet from TC definitely entered “below the hoB” area. But as Forrest said “their arrival was an aberration and they were oblivious to its connection with the poem”. In simple words those searchers didn’t know that they were “below the hoB”.

          • Hi Aaron: I think it’s definitely WWWH. I believe lots of “John Snows” go there who know nothing about Forrest’s Thrill of the Chase.

          • That could be Zap. However, “significance of where they are” sounds important, and perhaps closer to the location of the chest. As far as clues go hoB is closer, of course unless you are one that believes WWWH is in the same location as hoB.

            I may nothing, but for now I’m taking the Brown.

          • Aaron, you mean like somebody was effectively at the below home of Brown location but didn’t know the answer to the clue?

          • Hi Aaron: evidently you are assuming HoB is clue #2, since the Forrest Gets Crazy Mail quote was: “Searchers continue to figure the first two clues and others arrive there and don’t understand the significance of where they are. f”

            For me, the first two clues are WWWH and “take it in the canyon down”. How do you reconcile “Put in below the home of Brown” as the second clue with his reply to Carol Off?

            Carol: “You say begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down. Not far, but too far to walk. Put in below the home of Brown. That seems like a couple of clues to me.”

            FF: “That sounds like three or four to me.”

            Sure, Forrest said “sounds like.” He didn’t declare, “Oh, that’s more than two, Carol.”
            But he could have just replied, “Could be.” Instead, he insinuated that there were more than a couple clues in that stanza.

            If you’ve only got two clues in stanza 2, then I suppose “the blaze” can’t possibly be your number 9 clue — that would be 7 clues in only 5 poem lines. I’m on board with the blaze not being the 9th clue, even though I’ve got four clues in the 2nd stanza.

          • Oz and Zap, I think that they could have been below the home of Brown but not at the right location. Here is the scenario: A searcher gets two clues right are at location below home of brown, or near it, and continues on past it. The significant area is hoB, yet they didn’t know they walked right through it. They tell FF where they were without yet failed to disclose the location they were in as the 4th clue. Therefore FF doesn’t know if they understood the fourth clue. They may have put in at the correct spot but didn’t understand the significance of where they were and went right past the remaining clues. That’s a guess of course but it’s the best I can come up with that fits the area I will search, and FF’s statements.

          • Oh and Zap, I should have said that if PIBHOB is next to CD, and NPFTM, then a searcher could figure out only 2 clues and still arrive at the below hoB area.

          • Aaron,
            Clearly the subject matter in Fenn’s Q&A is about the 1st 2 clues and not HOB.

            “Dear Emily
            Searchers continue to figure the first two clues and others arrive there and don’t understand the significance of where they are. f”

            Where the heck does he mention clue 3 or 4?

          • Jake, if I am right then solving the first two clues can get one to the hoB area. If one does not know the significance of the area then they won’t get it and they will go past the chest.

          • Ya, Sure, the 1st 2 clues can lead to HOB 3rd clue but I don’t see how Fenn’s Q&A leads to a conclusion that the quote he was talking about HOB as being more significant than the 1st clue.

            You are implying that HOB is more significant than WWWH against what Fenn has said about the 1st clue.

            I think all the clues are significant but obviously the last and 1st clues are most.

            Anyway, this post is about the blaze and I think it’s the most, by far significant clue and 2nd place goes to WWWH and the HOB is a trap with the cap B luring folks to think it’s the most important but may be the least.

            I know you’re getting itchy being so close to a BOTG and am jealous but we need to have our ducks in order.

          • Jake, I am seeing the use of the word significant a little differently. WWWH is the most important and is more significant in helping solve the poem. I think the significance of where they were could have to do with hoB because of why the location is special to him. Also possibly the reason it is capitalized. To him it stands out.

          • Forrest, What’s the minimum number of clues that we need to solve to find the treasure, assuming that we follow the clues in order? `Serge Teteblanche

            “Just one Serge, the last one.f”

            This quote tells me the most significant clue is the last which i think is the blaze.
            We all know about all the other statements referring to WWWH the 1st clue and we know he said you would go right to it if you knew HOB while he was smiling in jest.

            Why would the treasure hunt be over if you’ve only solved 3 or 4 clues as in HOB?

            Big black hole that no one escapes from all because the cap B.

            My advice is not even think about HOB. Pick your WWWH and make sure it’s not in a canyon and then go into the canyon if there.
            Find something in your imagination when BOTG or just your mind that may relate to what Fenn was thinking about HOB but do not put all your focus in HOB as the end game. Remember there are a bunch of clues to figure out after Big Bad Brown and I don’t think they get easier as you go considering those that figured the 1st 2 clues didn’t get the chest.

          • I see I need to explain a bit more of this idea. While taking the canyon down we get to large area that is hoB. The remainder of the clues are in the below home of brown area including the blaze. The hoB area is significant because of what is there. The blaze is significant because it helps us find the chest. We can view HoB from the blaze and that is the reason he likes this spot. All of the clues still have to be followed.

      • Andy S said…The search for the blaze will start only after you have solved the hoB.

        I think it’s possible to have come across the blaze before hoB. One probably doesn’t realize that it’s the blaze till thinking more about it.

  23. Even though the poem says “if you’ve been wise and find the blaze” ect. Maybe the blaze is only a feature that happens to be at the chest location, but looking for a blaze is not the way to find the chest?

    • Hi James;

      Not to be picky, but this in quotation marks – “if you’ve been wise and find the blaze” The actual quote is, “If you’ve been wise and FOUND the blaze, …” I think that using the past tense of find = FOUND is important – JMO – JDA

      • Hi JDA, Yes, your right , my mistake. I’m still wondering though if the blaze can lead us to the chest, since it seems we encounter the the blaze in the second or third stanza?

      • I agree that the past tense is important. And being picky can be good.

        It looks to me like you have misquoted the poem by using all caps in your word “FOUND”.

        End of lecture. Good luck to all of us. As always, in my opinion.

        • OK you got me – but at least I got the words right. As you know, I put them in CAPS for emphasis – 🙂 Do the caps change the meaning? Probably not – 🙂 JDA

  24. I think maybe searchers are underestimating the intended meaning of “wise” … by a long shot. 🙂

    • It’s more like by a hot shot than a long shot. Besides “wise” meaning to be smart, it can mean to go clockwise, or in the case of the poem, “to already have gone clockwise.” When you get to the blaze you will already have traveled or searched in a clockwise direction. IMO.

      But there is an even more important meaning or hint in the word “wise.” It actually supports and confirms what the blaze is. That’s why the poem says, “If you’ve been wise AND found the blaze…” The word “wise” is directly connected to the word “blaze.” IMO. I’ve seen no one making this connection on any of the blogs or elsewhere. Disclosing it would really give away too much.

      • Whether that is a true connection or not, I would say it has been made many times in the past. Wise related to blaze. That is why people have commented on owl-shaped rocks and the like. But there may not even be a connection at all. ie the poem does not say, and found the wise blaze. So it is just anyone’s guess at this point.

        • Agreed Yellowdog.

          And why do we have to be WISE to find something that stands out?

          It’s seems counterintuitive given Forrest’s definition of the blaze as “anything that stands out.”

          Just my opiñon.

      • Landhigh;

        I have to take an entirely different view. IMO it has nothing to do with going clockwise, although it COULD be.

        The line in the poem reads: “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze…” The sentence is expressed in the past tense for a reason. If, in the past, you had been wise and had spotted the blaze then – “Look quickly down…”

        You had to have been wise or smart enough to spot the blaze – possibly from a different time or place or both.

        Maybe, in the past, you had seen a picture in TToTC, or read a line in TToTC and you made a mental image of this thing or place in your mind. Now, today, you spot something on a mountainside that triggers that memory. You say, AH-HA, the thing that I am now looking at MUST be the blaze. Had you not seen that picture, or read that line, it might be possible that what you are now looking at would never have registered as a BLAZE – but now it does. Just a thought – JDA

        • “If you’ve been wise” is in the past tense because it could be something you’ve done or seen, independent of the chase, in the past. I didn’t recognize it until after I found and figured out what the blaze really was. If I were to say what I think the blaze is and relate it to being wise and “your quest to cease,” it would be a very positive clue for you and most everyone. That’s why I can’t say much more about it. But I will say that it’s not remotely close to the TC, IMO.

          The location of the blaze and adjoining clues fit perfectly for my solution.

          • Landhigh,

            If you are conjuring up that “wise” means something else, it’s not going to work. The poem says this in past tense, relating to if you have been wise (smart) enough to solve the previous clues, you would be at the blaze. It’s simple and straightforward.

            I would be more concerned solving the previous clues up to the blaze, rather than speculating. All IMO.

            Just Say’n

        • So JDA, your hypothesis is that we can recognize the blaze only if read TTOTC book?
          But why Forrest said that poem itself contains enough information to find TC? The book should only help to understand a few clues in the poem (not exact citation but something like this).
          Anyway, it will be better to read TTOTC several times and memorize it before doing BOTG.

          • In answer to your question: “So JDA, your hypothesis is that we can recognize the blaze only if read TTOTC book?” the answer is no. The first word in my example was “Maybe”. Maybe, being that it is possible that one could have seen a picture or read something in TToTC.

            It is just as possible that one had seen a blaze on a hillside or somewhere else yesterday, and today, realize that it could be the blaze. Let’s say that one sees a scree field left after an avalanche – yesterday. Today, one sees this same scree field, but from a different angle. Yesterday, it disclosed nothing, today it looks like an arrow. Yesterday it meant nothing, today it looks like an arrow blaze. Just food for thought.

            Thanks for the question and be careful about jumping to conclusions with only SOME of the facts – 🙂 – JDA

  25. Hi Landhigh
    I can see your fly has been on the water for two days now ,
    the fish just are not hitting. Clint

    • I guess no one has been wise enough to find the blaze. For those of you who live right your quest has already ceased, by a dominating force.

  26. CharlieM,

    I’ve been wise enough to have already found the previous clues before the blaze. Those clues are what led me to the blaze. There are two aspects to the blaze. One is the obviously visual aspect. The other is what lies beneath the visible part. Forrest couldn’t give the direction of the blaze because it changes directions at different positions. It is huge. And it is many miles away from the TC. Don’t get caught up in “your quest to cease.” Your search does not cease at that point. There are 5 more clues after “your quest to cease.” All IMO, of course.

    • Landhigh,

      I disagree with your thought that “the blaze changes direction at different positions”. The blaze doesn’t face north, east, west or south.

      Mr. Fenn,
      Which direction does the Blaze face? North, South, East or West? Curious. Foxy
      “I didn’t take a radial off of the blaze Foxy. I’m thinking it may not be any of those directions.” f April 29, 2016 at MW

      From that statement the blaze more than likely faces “up”. Now moving on to the number of clues after the blaze as you indicated is 5. I disagree there are only 2 clues after the blaze and there are 6 clues prior to the blaze. Those two clues are after, “your quest to cease.”, some folks stop looking after “cease” that however does not include me.

      Just Say’n

  27. Yes CharlieM. Find the blaze on Google Earth then solve the next several clues! You’re on the right track. I don’t know why so many people quit thinking at the blaze line, as if the second half of the poem doesn’t even exist.

    • Warlock, can you share one thing that has been shared after the quest to ceAse line that is compelling?

      I haven’t seen anything yet.

  28. You maybe correct Landhigh. However to my way of thinking, 5 more clues after “your quest to cease ” would put the total # of clues in the prom at more than 9; but I’m empty handed. The best of luck to you.

  29. What if the blaze were a wide gravel road that meandered all through the hills. What direction would it face? At any specific location the blaze may face a certain direction, like maybe east. At another location of the blaze it may face south. But all of this kind of blaze would face upwards, as you said, CharlieM.

    Here’s how I get 4 clues to and including the blaze:

    Clue # 1: Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down, not far but too far to walk. This gives you a starting location, a direction to go, and an approximate distance to the next clue.

    Clue # 2: Put in below the home of Brown. From there it’s no place for the meek. This gives you a location to continue from Clue # 1 and a direction to go.

    The end is ever drawing nigh. This is not a directional clue but a strong hint for what must be done later on in your search.

    Clue # 3: There’ll be no paddle up your creek. This clue tells you where to turn from the last clue and is an extended location clue.

    Just heavy loads and water high. This is not a clue per say, but it tells you what exists at a higher elevation further up your paddleless creek. You don’t need to go to these 2 locations. You must find the blaze before you would get to the heavy loads and water high. So you must have been wise and found the blaze first.

    Clue # 4: If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, look quickly down your quest to cease. So the blaze is the new location and you must follow down the blaze to a another location where …….

    Clues # 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9 take you to the immediate search area where BOTG are required.

    Remember, this is not someone else’s opinion.

  30. Landhigh….BRAVO

    Please alot me as a guest in the audience at the unveiling
    of Indulgence when it is secured at the Smithsonian.


  31. Landhigh , I follow your thinking . As you can see from my previous post I have trouble spelling “Poem” , that says a lot.

  32. We think that the blaze could be an event in the past. More concrete: we think it’s the explosion of the boiler of a steam-locomotive because of a false indication (water high) of the water gauge glass on August 16, 1936 in the Jemez Mountains.

    See our arguments, our solution and our growing treasure-map:

    Have fun and be safe, Apfeltourer

  33. The blaze. I’m of the opinion there are several blazes to be solved in the poem’s trail to the treasure. Some more obvious blazes I’ve tried are “Lazy B” which resembles a butt-butte land formation. “A” which is a map key symbol for camping.

    Well, I always thought I deserved a throne.”
    Forrest’s opening statement in the linked interview leads me to think perhaps “W” or a “CROWN” shaped rock outcropping could be at the end.

  34. Near my specific small search area, there’s a place from which several things (that “stand out”)
    can be seen. I imagine that a searcher might treat any of these things as the blaze. But only
    one is associated with wisdom. Happy birthday to everyone whose birthday is today.
    As always, IMO.

  35. I moved this over where it belongs – Blaze page

    Andy, thanks for resurrecting this interesting comment from ff:

    When asked on Mysterious Writings on April 29, 2016 “Mr. Fenn, Which direction does the Blaze face? North, South, East or West?
    Forrest said: “Foxy I didn’t take a radial off of the blaze Foxy. I’m thinking it may not be any of those directions. f”

    IMO the chest will likely be located below the final blaze.

    And numerically F-O-X can each equal 6. Forrest said, “foxy I didn’t take a radial off the blaze…” 6’s layered on top of each other form a sun burst or radial. SUN burst is a Blaze. Maybe Forrest is saying the blaze is a sunburst; asterisk shape and he didn’t remove a radial from the blaze.. although IF the blaze is distilled like gin down to individual letters – well they would most likely be B-L-A-Z or E.

    (A=1, B=2, etc. double digits simplified to single digits ie (10 1+0=1)
    The KEY I use to convert letters to numbers which gives you road numbers,
    And possible latitude/longitude guides.
    A-J-S = 1
    B-K-T = 2
    C-L-U = 3
    D-M-V = 4
    E-N-W = 5
    F-O-X = 6
    P-G-Y = 7
    H-Q-Z = 8
    I-R-= 9

    • The following are just my ideas/opinions. I have no idea if Forrest used any of these methods. They work for me.

      Here’s an example of how to use (in a word, yes) the letters of the word B-L-A-Z-E into physical, topographical features which could be located on Maps or google earth:

      B: butt shaped buttes looks like B. So do the grand Tetons (French for big boobs) Many exist in the Rocky mounds/mountains.

      L: or double L’s form a box which is how 36 section township are shown on forest service maps. Check out how many double LL’s exist in the poem. double L could also indicate a water fall. On montana land ownership maps, at the great horn of the Madison River near the Sundance Bench, there is a blue
      Shaded ‘L shape’ designating the state owned area which can be accessed by all fishermen.

      A: is the symbol for campgrounds on Forest Service maps

      Z: looks like switch backs on a trail

      E: looks like a draw or rock forming an E

    • 42, ~ ‘IMO the chest will likely be located below the final blaze.’

      “Final Blaze”? How many *blaze{s} are there?

      WhatIF I said a searcher claims to be “foxy” in that Q&A, that goes by a different name on the blogs… would that change anything for you?
      Even if that doesn’t, Why lose the Y in “Foxy”-?- by saying ~ ‘And numerically F-O-X can each equal 6.’

      Just curious…..

      • Seeker, what in the blazes was I thinking when
        I dropped the wYse?

        The ideas I shared about FOX are simply an exercise in thought..just Ideas. I’m not putting forth a solve here. For all I know the blaze is a big ‘double dele’ made of boulders or OO petroglyph.

        My logic is never bullet proof. Warm waters flow straight through it.

        • OK, fun exercise or not… I was wondering why FOX is used vs. FOXY for that exercise.
          For me, that’s the same as “WHY” and dropping the H to create WY… in the poem, idea.
          I would think we should use what we have for the “numerically’ method” to be reasonably true, even if it is just an example / exercise.
          Or do you think we can do that-?- drop a letter or something? per my sample / example of; WHY for WY

          This is why I’m asking… LOL there’s a method to my madness.

          • Seeker, I can only offer my opinion…
            If you are asking about the poem (and not about comments made by Forrest on treasure blogs) then no, I wouldn’t drop anything. If you are asking about Why is it that I must go…being a reference to Wyoming. Justified left, it doesn’t state Wyoming. However if you justify everything to the right margin and observe that line with the next line…Wyo shows up. You have to decide if justifying both ways and dropping into a grid is messing with his poem. For me, its not messing with the poem, its the most logical way to create a map. All just my opinion. I’m not interested in debating it.

            unless you are trying to follow instructions in the poem which said to drop a letter.

          • OK, 42,

            That is what I was getting at… are there those type of instruction in the poem?
            That line, seems to imply dropping the “I” ~ why is it “i” must go

            How does that work in your numbers-?- using the left and right justified idea. How do we pick what words or do we do it with all the words… are phrases involved.

            Honestly and obviously I’m not familiar with this system you’re chatting about.
            LOL no matter how easy it may seem for you. I’m don’t know he rules of it.
            If ya like… explain to me as if I’m 5, and you can use apples and oranges for visual aid if needed… I’m just lost, that’s all.

          • Yep,
            I get Homonyms… I get synonyms… I get Idioms… I’m not getting /understanding 42’s number system.

          • Hi Seeker: his numerology system is the same one a hundred other searchers use. A-I –> 1-9. From J on, you add digits until you get a number less than 10, i.e. S=19 –> 10 –> 1. This is why you can never generate a zero (unless you have a special rule, like letter O is zero, or perhaps a space between words codes as zero).

            I’m not a fan of systems that aren’t 1:1, but given that so many searchers gravitate to numerology, I have to at least consider the possibility that Forrest did also. Technically it’s a code, albeit a very simple one that a child could figure out.

          • And I will add Zap, that it’s wrong.
            Seeker, you are right, the “i” must go. That is the instruction, and for the number to letter thing, you can use “h” equals 2, or “to”.W to Y ST (the i is gone), gives Sowyst.
            The rest is up to the searcher to interpret, if going about it in this way.
            To use the number system of a=1, b=2, c=3, d=4,…….etc, is not in f’s character. Wouldn’t he use his own number system if he did?
            The 1,2,3,4,5,…and so on numbering for a,b,c,d,e,…and so on will only give the correct values for some of the letters, and will conflict sooner or later. Actually, f gives a choice in line 21 of the poem of which way to go, if you are using this method, and one of the answers is this system, but it ends up being wrong.
            Also, the answers to this method are in the poem, it’s the only way to answer all the letters, but the poem only gives the answer to about half the letters. But again, there is a way to get all the letter values, even for “X”.
            I will say this, if you are using a number system for letters, do not go with the universal a=1, etc…. You will come to a point where it will not work. Example, look at the word “gaze”. G as E. since G would be 7, and E is 5, you have conflict. There are other examples, but you get the gist. Just because something does work, doesn’t mean it will keep working. In the chase, if f did use a number/letter system, (and I think he did), the answers to it would be in the poem, and would be of f’s creation. And no, is not a code, cypher, etc….You just have to look within the poem, and the instructions, and a little imagination to solve the number/letter thing. Or, just ask…But once you have those values, lol, a lot makes sense.

          • And really, the alphabet could be considered a code, so we should use that comment by f lightly. Unless you want to keep it simple and not use letters, lol.
            Also to add to Zap, the universal way would be easy to figure out, I totally agree, why do searchers think f would make it that simple?
            I don’t mean to sound aloof, or whatever, but, if there is a number/letter value system in the poem, I’m 1000% positive. Only because of how you get the answers and what the answers provide. I’m just not smart enough to have come up with it, lol, that’s the main reason, no way I could have known stories and this whole chase beforehand. In fact, to see the system in action just makes me think of how detailed f was in creating this puzzle, and how he came up with this number system. It is soo good.
            42, A actually equals 7, but B does equal 2, and C does equal 3, but D equals 1, and E equals 3, just like G. 🙂 Iowaeng, you still out here?

  36. Seeker, I wish that I could offer you more help. I’m not familiar with that system and don’t follow those type of confusing instructions either.

    IMO if you start eliminating and rearranging letters in the poem, like removing the I from “I must go” then IN MY OPINION you have changed the poem and messed with it. IMO

  37. I know absolutely nothing… It does seem that changing/swapping/substituting any letter of any word for something else may be *messing* with the poem… no matter how you [justify] it. I admit that I may have resorted to such practices over the years…but just for lack of anything else solid.

  38. Here is a thought I’ve been pondering about the blaze recently. There is a question is on the Cheat Sheet of this blog, and is something that has caused me some anguish for some time…

    Q: Is the Blaze one single object? “In a word – Yes”

    Why would Forrest have to answer the question with the words “in a word”? He simply could have said yes or no, but he didn’t. That leads me to believe that it is a single object but at the same time, it could be multiple objects that make up the single object, right?

    For example, a pile of gravel could be multiple objects… each individual stone, yet it can also be a single object… a pile.

    Does this make sense to anyone?

    I’m not sure if this helps solve anything. Like I said, I’ve just been thinking about how he answered the question. Maybe he answered that way to be vague so he didn’t give anything away.

    As always, IMO… etc, etc…


    • Tim,
      Your example is fair… not unlike a cairn
      The poem could be thought of has the same.
      A location can have places within and all be contiguous in nature. YS for example, has the YS river which feeds YS lake which feed the YS Grand Canyon falls [ two fall, being of different places themselves ]. all connecting, all contiguous.

      The search location could be similar but of a small area, line of thinking. Not unlike the idea; a mud puddle to an ant looks like an ocean.

      But we need to consider another comment;
      Forrest has said)
      While it’s not impossible to remove the blaze it isn’t feasible to try, and I am certain it’s still there.
      [Illinoisghost’s blog.]

      Not feasible; impracticable; unrealistic.

      My question is [ other than the chase ] what would make it unrealistic or impracticable for the blaze to be removed… What happens if it is removed-?- and what impact does it have on the location where all the physical clue’s references are located?

      Or, is it just a single object, and nothing more, and fenn just utilized it for his blaze in the poem.

      • For purposes of this treasure hunt, the blaze is just a single object that
        should be visible if a searcher is in the right place at the right time. IMO.

        • Tall Andrew,
          You said right place at the right time.
          I get how the poem is supposed to get anyone to the right place… but what do you mean by right time?

    • Nice thinking TimM. I’ve had similar thoughts, and once posted how I thought that the poem itself is the blaze, which makes FF’s response very funny indeed since it is a collections of words that can be defined by one single word—poem.

      I now think that the blaze is the entirety of the clues we are meant to follow, culminating at the spot where Indulgence is waiting to be grabbed, which just so happens to be WWWH. It is all very counter-intuitive, I know, but I see a logical sequencing that is difficult to understand, but not impossible.

      Bottom line, I think it is plausible that a collection of things could qualify as the blaze.

      • Bowmarc: except that Forrest has said the blaze is *one* of the clues, which makes it hard to simultaneously be the totality of the clues.

    • TimM, basically it is a none answer, (except for combined with the: is the blaze a physical thing)

      Anything one can think of, is made up of smaller parts, including Atoms, or the earth or a lake or a path. so the answer can be applied to most “things”, the only take away is that it is a “thing”.

      We can say that the blaze is not theoretical, it is something we can see, so the combination of it’s parts probably can be referred to by a common name, like the earth, or a lake, or a path.

      long story short, it would be better if we never saw that ATF, exactly how ff intended.

    • TimM,

      At the risk of giving up some helpful information to 1-5 others who are in close proximity, (IMHO) the answer to your question, “…make up the single object, right?,” the answer is YES!

  39. Has there been any discussion about the blaze being some sort of star, not in the sky but on something

  40. Yes. I believe there was a brief discussion about the Sneetches who had stars on their bellies and how they thought they were better than everyone else.. But the discussion was quite short..

  41. I can’t seem to get beyond the thought of an “owl petroglyph” on a rock wall just above the location of the treasure. My visual of what I am looking for.

    • Who knows Title2AU you might be right. – Question – Are petroglyphs found in all four states? – JDA

      • yes, but all petroglyphs are too easy to remove or destroy, up to some very large size, so accordingly to ff, a normal size petroglyph would not be the blaze, (easy to remove/destroy)… but very large petroglyph would also be ruled out, since the searcher that was at about 200′, did not recognize anything to be a blaze, including a very large petroglyph to continue their quest.

        • I agree, that a petroglyph may not be the best blaze to look for, however his spot may not be visible unless you are “in there” first. I am keeping an open mind of a visual for a blaze. I would think if you are searching and in the correct area, the blaze I would think will become obvious. I do not feel the 200 footers have any visual to the spot in my solve. I am thinking more of the 12ft range. The blaze is not the clue they were missing IMO.

          • Randawg, regarding paleo type possible blazes.. I’ve also considered it could be partially exposed bones of a dinosaur or mammoth. Not feasible to remove, without great effort and archaeologists to document in Situ.

          • Yes that is true randawg,
            but why did the 200′ searcher not see (or investigate such a display of petroglyphs?) I don’t think anyone would not walk closer, (and even rarer still, not tell ff that they walked up to the petroglyphs) there by giving ff an idea that they were closer than 200′..

            of course if they were staring at the nice display of Petroglyphs, and this spot was still 200′ away from the chest, why did the 200′ searcher not look quickly down? or at least explore a little, Also the poem’s job is to bring a person to within “several steps” of the chest according to ff. 200′ is far more than several steps, that seems too far away for the look quickly down part…

            (now that is not saying the Petroglyphs are an answer to some other clue, but it sure seems like they would not be the “blaze”) unless of course one’s quest was not to cease near or at the blaze…

            lots of possibiltles, but seems too much of a stretch…

            and apparently if one were within 12′ of chest, it would be hard then not to find the chest.

            so even if the 200′ searcher just did a cursory search after this display… it would seem they would have found the real blaze or chest, just by simply going down… direction or looking from that possible blaze.

          • They could be obstructed by trees or brush, or simply on the opposite side of a rock.
            I can tell you from personal experience that it Is possible to walk within a few feet of petroglyphs and not discover them.

          • Writis, I can give several reasons why at 200 ft you cannot see the area of the trove let alone a blaze. This applies to my solve. In fact, 200 footers would need to travel several miles from their location to access the trove site in my solve, even though they were only 200 ft away “as-the-crow-flies”.

            Also, if you have had BOTG, you can visualize the path you took. Were you fully aware of every nook and cranny within 200ft of every step you took?

            The blaze configuration is not important to me in reality. If I am at the correct spot (within 12ft???), I believe the blaze will become obvious. If there is a random visitor to this spot, they will not know there is something “down” for them to find. “They will not stumble upon it”.

          • Title2AU: ” I can give several reasons why at 200 ft you cannot see the area of the trove let alone a blaze.”

            then the blaze is not fulfilling it’s duty, (if that were it’s duty) to give one a reason to cross that 200′ river for instance, even if it took several miles to do to get you within “several steps”, you have zero reason to do so, a failed “blaze” as it were.

            That is what the discussion was about… what good is a blaze that you can not see? let alone not see from 200′, what is the “other” thing that gets you to see the blaze to within several steps? especially in your example of a 200′ crossing of some sort.

            that is after all the point, if the blaze were really the thing that gave precision, Then you just described a blaze not worthy of precision within several steps. or why in “blazes” would one want to cross the 200′ river in the first place?? a hunch?

    • Title2AU: your thoughts are in line with “l OO k, Wise, kee ee-eyes, hoot,Woohoo all show up in the poem (spaces removed, word search) O-O

      • Look low below the OWL blaze ideas
        Perhaps a W shaped rock formation with O-O or owl on it. All opinion.

        • 42, yes a rock formation seems more logical. If you are in the correct area, you will see something that stands out as a clue. I also believe (my solve) if the correct direction is taken from the poem, you will not have a large area to search for the blaze.

  42. Please hear me out!!

    Can the blaze be the eternal flame at the JFK gravesite?

    I see little of people including ‘if you’ve been wise’ in their discussions of the blaze. Poor Richard said, “early to bed and early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise.” He also said, “three may keep a secret if two of them are dead.” Sound familiar? Anyways, this seems to imply east, but not quite. It seems I’m missing something.

    The reason I ask is because I can’t see how it works in that stanza (There’s something very obvious in my search area to gaze at with marvel that I didn’t think of before seeing it – it even strongly relates to my WWWH). Also, the eternal flame is fueled by natural gas which is sourced in my hoB, WWWH, and no place for the meek.

    It’s difficult for me to drop the eternal flame as the blaze because my search area has a similar symbolic meaning. Keep in mind the military was on high alert after the assassination of JFK so it was probably an even bigger event for Forrest than for the average person.

    Btw, did you know that the movie “Dave” has something to do with a “look a like”? Seems suspicious in more ways than one doesn’t it?

  43. My 2 cents :
    (for what they are worth)
    The blaze is small, it cannot be seen from Google Earth. ( because it doesn’t go down that far.)
    It will be on something permanent, something that cannot be easily destroyed and not logically moved. I had been looking on trees for years and chasing my tail just as long. Take a walk anywhere in any forest and check out all of the fallen trees. I had to rule them out, even though I have quite an impressive collection of tree blazes( old and new) .
    I think f thought of that when he placed the chest.
    A rock formation is a good place to start, but I think the blaze will be a combination of natural and f’s personal stamp.
    I really like the idea of light casting a shadow at a certain time of day, a la Indiana Jones. However, what if it’s overcast? I would be ticked off if I got there at 4pm and the shadow was passed. What if it’s the wrong time of the year? Also,Shouldn’t it be able to be found at night with a flashlight? I think that the chest sits directly below said blaze. What if it really is buried ? Maybe that’s why no one has found it yet.
    This has also been bothering me ;
    Black Bears
    Brown bears
    That’s a lot of bears, berries,( buries )to be a coincidence to me in one scrapbook . * 204 *
    I think we should dig deeper into what Forrest has been trying to tell us .
    Buuuut…All of this is just my opinion and no one should listen to me .

    • The only thing I got out of that scrapbook was Huckleberry Finn.

      Why? For one thing, ‘I have gone alone in there’ sounds like going alone in a book on an adventure. Also, my hoB is on the Missouri River and my solve for the second and third stanzas provide a specific context in the 19th century.

      Huckleberry seems like a good nickname for Forrest doesn’t it? The fighter pilots in Topgun all had nicknames. Two cents says I’m right 🙂

      I wasn’t aware of the shadows in Indiana Jones. Forrest was rescued on December 21st so maybe the blaze is the bright white light from the sunrise on that date. I say sunrise because “early to bed and early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise.” That would also make sense of “your effort will be worth the cold” and if you “look quickly down”, you’d see your shadow.

      • I’ll take that 2 cent bet, Dave . 😉
        I mention Indiana Jones reference because of the staff that he puts in the little hole and shoots the beam of light on the ground. I love that movie!
        But seriously, Dave , your reasoning is just as likely as mine and you could be correct. I don’t like to discount everything and try to keep my mind open and respect everyone.
        Best of luck on your searches and as always, stay safe!

    • Hi Veronica,

      I, like you, have had many failed attempts while trying to figure out a blaze. Would something like a historic landmark work? Not sure, as some think that only geographic landmarks are worthy. I’d love to hear some input as Forrest has neither confirmed nor denied when asked, if I have done my research correctly.

      Also yes, yes, yes to buried and bears and berried. Guess we’ll need precise coordinates if that’s the case.

      Best of luck hunting!

      • MJ –
        I think a historical landmark is definitely in the realm of possibilities. Of course, I don’t think that Forrest would put any sort of mark there . In that case , I would look in very close proximity to the landmark. I don’t think it will be near or next to a highly trafficked area if he wanted his bones to rest for eternity. This brings up the morbid facts of decomposition. Gross, I know – but I think more than a few of us must have thought of this at one time or another. If you wanted to go to the forest to quietly pass away under a pine tree, you wouldn’t do so where Uncle Bob and Aunt Helen take the kids to fish or hike every summer. I’m a country gal and when I see buzzards in the back 40, I go investigate. Even a deer carcass attracts quite a few. It’s an unpleasant thought, and again my 2 cents aren’t worth much. This observation alone ruled out most areas (if not all in National Park’s for me) If i were him I wouldn’t want a ranger finding me 2 days later and ruining my plans . They have to move dead animals away from certain areas so they probably look for things like that. The location to me would have to be pretty secluded, but not so secluded that an 80 year old man could not get to fairly easy.
        * disclaimer *
        If you read this Forrest, I apologize for talking about your hypothetical carcass . I hope you live forever.

        • Oh my. I guess I’ve never really thought that he truly wanted his his bones left rotting at the treasure location. I was under the impression that it was a location that brought history back to life for him. I was thinking the spot was more metaphorical as is the poem. But them Im only guessing and of course it’s just my humble opinion. Would be fun to really know!

          • MJ, I know at first, it was where he wanted his bones to rest- but now? Who knows. I just always keep that in the back of my mind filed under “f” when I’m searching.
            I stop and look around then ask myself- is this place secluded enough to be my final resting place? I usually stand there awhile and take in everything. If I can see or hear people, I usually move on.

    • Veronica s ~ *I really like the idea of light casting a shadow at a certain time of day, a la Indiana Jones. However, what if it’s overcast?*

      What if it is? “Plan” and Observe come to mind.

      fenn warns us to pack it in during winter [ snowfalls ]. Mainly for safety and common sense, which seems lacking with some. However, he tells us; if we knew where it was we probably could retrieve it in any weather. This is a tricky comment for me. The idea of knowing where it is kinda eliminates the need for the other clues because of the ‘knowing part’ which implies the chest itself might be retrievable at its hidey spot, but can we get to it?
      Do we need a sunshine day? Kinda thinking *wait until the mud dries* idea.

      The direct question I would like to ask fenn is; can a searcher be successful in the task following the clues correctly in any weather?

      My general would be; WhatIF there’s a reason we can’t solve the clues in an off season beyond “summer” when fenn hid the chest-?- who’d be upset?
      IMO.. should the clues be solvable on or near a specific date [ month and day{s} ] the poem should explain this. I think it does just that.. as long as you can read the poem as more instructional than directional.

      Staying on topic… I don’t think the blaze can be recognized properly on a map or GEm and only seen properly at ground level. However, I do think it is mentioned… but its not called ‘the blaze’

  44. Writis,
    I am not sure why you believe the blaze must be visible at 200’. Although it may be the case, the poem says “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze”, not “If you’ve been eagle-eyed and found the blaze”. I believe a 200’ ft visible blaze is possible, but so is a 12ft visible blaze.

    • Then the blaze is not doing it’s “job”, (if it were supposed to be visible at 200′)…

      that is the point, if the blaze did not “stand out” to the person that was 200′ away, then the blaze is not supposed to be visible from 200’… that would mean some other element in the poem was to get a person closer, to where they would recognize the blaze.

      of course this is all in “theory”, in reality most likely the reason the blaze is not “recognized” at that distance is because that person, (including everyone else) is making the assumption about a physical blaze that is incorrect and a long way off from the reality of the riddle. imo.

      • What if it was a tree and it burned up in a forest fire? The box might be campflauged with black bark now.

    • Writis: that is my theory as well. Searchers assume it’s a waterfall, or a distinguishing white mark on a cliff face, a large rock, a USGS marker, a rainbow, a shadow, a mark carved into a tree, or “even a live owl that flew away when it was approached.” All of these share something in common. What if Forrest’s blaze doesn’t?

  45. At first, I thought the blaze was a bent tree because I googled “indian trail blaze” and looked at the pictures. And in my 5 trips searching in NM I did actually find some of those trees I saw in the google result, but I did not find the treasure.

    On my last trip, I did see a “blaze”. It was bright orange in the distance (about 200 feet away). As I got closer I saw that it was a tree split lengthwise (about 15 feet tall). It was quite bright from the distance in comparison to the other trees that were surrounding it.

    From a distance, it “glowed” like a huge fuzzy candle flame for me because my eyesight is poor. I remember saying to myself “what in the h*ll is THAT!”.

    Anyway, I went over to it and there was a stream in front of it, but I didn’t see any treasure. I am sure that Forrest chose the treasure box because it blends in with the river rocks in the area (same color, size, and shape of many of the rocks). So I scaled down the bank to the stream for a closer look.

    Too bad that I lost my balance and fell HARD on my upper back. I landed on one of the big flat rocks in the river. I then attempted to use my flashlight to look in the deep crevices in the creek bank made by the running water, but I was just hurting too badly (I am 65). So I reluctantly stopped hunting. I barely made it back to my car and cursed my bad luck.

    I have been to NM five times searching. The wife says I can’t ever go back because I am too old and we are just too broke for another trip.

    If anyone can get to Los Alamos and wants to split the treasure with me, I will be happy to share where I was looking and why. In spite of my falling, where I was searching is not in a dangerous place. I just regret not being more careful so I could have searched more thoroughly.

    • So sorry to hear this Mike. Hope you are having a speedy recovery. Will let you know when and if I am in the area.

      • Yep, I am almost fully recovered now.
        It just hurts a little when I get in my car to drive and have to pull the door closed. That should go away, too, in a couple more weeks.

        Thank you so much for your kind words!

        The fates were simply against me on that trip.
        I was supposed to have 2 days to search, and lost a whole day because my flights were canceled. Then another 1/2 day after my mishap.

        Oh well, those are the breaks I guess.
        I just was not meant to find it.

        Yes, please let me know if/when you are ever close to Los Alamos.

        • Awesome so glad to hear you’re nearly recovered. Murphy’s law can be cruel sometimes. You being 65 and searching makes you a rock star in my book!

          • Thanks, for the nice words, PickleMeThis. 🙂

            Oh, I forgot to mention that my “blaze” was right at 3 miles where I believe that Fenn said to “put in”…err, dock…err, park…below the “Home of Brown”.

            Such a good solve, just wish I could’ve searched more.

            Dang that Murphy’s Law…ha

  46. I have a theory that there is a location where you can be, and just by turning and looking, in
    turn, in three different directions, see three different things that “stand out”. Thus, each of them, at that point in a decent solve of the poem, could qualify as being the blaze. IMO.

  47. 10 billion blazes?

    I did the math and there’s 50 blazes per square mile. That comes out to two blazes per quarter section corner. During the first US Geographical Survey, a corner required at least two witness objects. These witness objects can be used to relocate the corner if the corner is lost. Trees were often used as witness objects by blazing them and carving information on the underlying wood. Sometimes a large boulder or cliff face was used as a witness object and carved with an “x”. This doesn’t prove what Forrest meant by the blaze, but it’s circumstantial evidence that the blaze may be related to the geographical survey.

    • Hi Dave… folks have offered up many possible blaze theories and ideas over the years and some have been similar to yours…. survey markers have been discussed.

  48. I don’t think I have seen this conversation here maybe it has been discussed but here’s my take…
    the Blaze is and has been right infront of anyone who has read TTOTC book. FF has put it out there I just don’t think anyone has caught on to it because no one has been near it to recognize it. I also believe that it has been described in TTOTC.

      • “Near” to me, as to what FF has said

        “ I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it “

        Being within eye shot of it and recognizing it to be location

        That’s my definition and what I look for my Blaze I haven’t see anyone here in the blog discuss it, but it is definitely in the book and on the appropriate page FF even has specifically defined it. Gosh can’t wait till spring..

        • Where did the 12′ response originate? As far as I can tell, ff never indicated as such.

          If his Indulgence is well hidden or buried, someone could be standing right on top of it and never know it.

          Know he has stated numerous times that he “never said it was buried” but then again, he never said that it wasn’t.

          • JAK: what Dave is getting at is that Forrest’s comment about the 12′ was instigated by some unknown person saying or writing something about that specific distance. Forrest is simply refuting it, but it does beg the question of who made that original claim?

        • Thanks for the reply… EverNigh. I understand(kind of) the reluctance of some to be more specific about certain things. In this case… being within eye shot of the blaze does not say much in real time. Coming across the plains and getting the first glimpse of the Rockies is one thing, and seeing a duck on the side of a trail is another. I get it though.
          I don’t think size matters… only getting to the correct spot will work. Thanks

          • Agreed Ken seeing anything could be a blaze ANYTHING!
            But I don’t think that FF Julia expecting us to make up a blaze which most do.. I am sure that somewhere in TTOTC book he has said what the Blaze is. It just makes sense that he would and it’s right under our noses. Again all this is my opinion but to me FF has given us the “blaze” told us what it is, but can we recognize it when or if we get “near” enough?

          • EverNigh… I can’t say that I agree that Fenn has mentioned the blaze directly… or written about it specifically. I think that the blaze is something that the eventual *finder* will have learned/discovered by correctly following the clues to where it is. I believe that it may be possible to have a very good idea what to look for… but not exactly… until that point. Thanks again.

          • Ken I am not saying that FF has said it directly but, what IMO am saying that the Blaze has been described in TTOTC. I has been put into word or words as to what to look down at.. cheers…

          • EverNigh… I understand that you are not implying that Fenn specifically divulged the blaze. In fact I don’t believe he has specifically described any of the clues in a way that anyone could easily understand them. The poem’s design has worked quite well for Fenn.
            The few good hints in TTOTC are described as subtle… so by definition they are most likely very vague and not easy to recognize. I suspect that a successful searcher will not understand any of them until they correctly figure out a clue that corresponds to a given hint.
            The blaze I’ve been working on has a very vague remnant or two in the mix of words/stories from TTOTC that I can find at this time. Putting it to the test is another story…. Thanks for the interaction.

          • Ken here is another clue FF has put out there that NO ONE has considered!!

            XYZ ) ( PDQ

            The chest is located between
            Z @ P
            Waist or chest high.

          • Maybe so EverNigh. I have not seen reference to your XYZ)(PDQ anywhere… however, folks have talked about waist or chest high along with a myriad of other scenarios over the years. Buried, under water, covered with a black stone, in a cave, under a juniper, in an outhouse, in a cemetery, in certain museums, in his guest house, the list is very lengthy. Are you implying a symbolic reference? Like the parenthesis in your post?

    • I think if it’s twelve feet it would help to have a group of people to see. More eyes on the ground would make for more boots clomping.

  49. So many things could be the blaze, that I would think it had to be something recognizable from TTOTC book. What would be the point of having a blaze that a searcher would not recognize as being related to the chase?

  50. I still maintain that the Blaze is a valley in a mountain that looks like the shadow on the cover of TFTW. I saw one in Glacier National Park. It changed appearance as the sun moved over it. It is visible from Three Bears Lake if anyone is interested.

  51. Maybe I just try and see things in a simple way, but to me, the blaze is simply what a “blaze” would be……something that stands out. If you are a searcher and have solved the clues up to that part of the poem, I think the blaze will be very obvious to you, but not so much to the person who is not inviolved in the Chase. Just MO.

    • GG — Your explanation, though simple it may seem, is VERY befitting to my way of thinking and could merit you riches — I need to “slenderize” the area I believe in, as I have difficulty finding a blaze in it’s past/present “vastness” w/BOTG done.

  52. I think I’ve been wise and found the blaze. I can’t believe I didn’t think of this sooner. The first line gives you a big hint of what it is. “As I have gone alone in there” It’s the double F’s in the word e[ff]ort. It’s the only time the double F’s show in the poem. In the questions people used to ask him, someone asked him if the blaze was a single thing. And he replied, “In a word – Yes” I’m pretty sure I’ve got it narrowed down to a town in Wyoming. Let the theory bashing begin! LOL
    Oh, IMO of course.

      • Besides luck, he’ll need the book, the poem, a good map, a comprehensive knowledge of geography, guts, determination, imagination, a sandwich, a flashlight, a pickup truck, a wife, 12 kids, and no job.

        • Yeah, Allen. It led me to a town in Wyoming called Willwood. I think the keyword would be “will” because it has many definitions. In the question stanza, it seems like he’s hinting to the word will. “Why is it I must go (die) and leave my trove (will) for all to seek?” The word trove is defined as a collection of objets. It’s tough because when you hear the word trove you tie it to treasure. When he says, your effort will be worth the cold, I think he means cold as in sick. W[ill]wood has the word ill in it. And then of course “brave and in the wood,” gives you the last part. If it’s where I think it is, the sandwich and flaslight would make sense. There’s a picnic area nearby, and it’s in a pretty dark place. What I don’t understand though is how it hasn’t been found yet because it seems kind of like its a tourist attraction thing. IMO

  53. A blaze serves a purpose. A trail blaze, for instance, has to do with the direction of travel. If the clues correspond to points on a map, it would seem that there is a path, or trail, to be followed that leads to the treasure chest. In this context, doesn’t it make sense that the Blaze would act just like a trail blaze, to tell us which direction to go in? And if this is true, does it imply that the Blaze and the chest are not necessarily at the same location?
    Here is the crucial point, IMO: Are you marrying the clues to points on a map? Or are you trying to find the clues while BOTG?
    According to Forrest, as I understand him, the only thing that cannot be seen by looking at a map (He mentions Google Earth a lot, by the way) is the chest itself. NOT the Blaze. The chest.

    • Yeah, that’s all true, Joe. Another posability is the blaze could be in the poem itself. I had a theory that the FF (Forrest’s initials) in the word effort could be the blaze. The word after effort (will) maybe being the keyword.

    • Joe Monday,

      Here is what FF said, “It helps to know something about Rocky Mountain geography when making plans to search for my treasure. Rocking chair ideas can lead one to the first few clues, but a physical presence is needed to complete the solve. Google Earth cannot help with the last clue.” (Mysterious Writings Six Questions 2018)


    • Joe, In my solve the blaze does not point the way per se, but it is a place along the path. To figure out where to go from there you need to deal with this other thing. But in my solve you do go through it or around it, but you don’t actually need to. Once you get past it you are kinda like “I could’ve just gone from over there to over there without dealing with the blaze”. Ah, but without the blaze you wouldn’t know…

      Good luck on your search.

  54. Has anyone else’s imagination (and magnifying glass) help them find the word “BLAZE” on the left brim of the hat of the mirror-image guy on the left on page 21 of TTOTC?

    “Life should be an illustrated search for hidden treasures, and not just a guided tour. f” (SB 152)

    • Allen, I don’t know the answer to that question of yours. Please consider:

      What if the factual/actual answer is “Yes.” (someone’s has) , whether posted
      or not ?

      What if the factual/actual answer is “No.” , whether posted or not ?

      Would knowing either factual/actual answer affect your solve of the poem?

      I suggest that studying it more would be more effective in achieving a good
      solve, compared to relying on blog messages from folks who, like you, have
      not yet found the TC. Good luck to you.

      • The answer is Yes (you see it) or No (you don’t).

        I’m just curious how many other people see it—and I know there are some because they told me.

        If Forrest really did hide words and numbers in the illustrations, I think that’s important to the winning solve.

        • Good luck finding anything helpful-to-a-good-solve hidden in the
          illustrations. Do you remember that FF said that all the info needed to find the treasure is in the poem?

        • Allen, I had never noticed it… I looked, and I can see where you’re coming from… i’ve always seen ’16 or 116 on p.43- below the fire in the gypsy dance picture…. is “blaze” really there on the brim? is that a 16 beneath the fire? not sure… but it never hurts to notice things, wonder, think… at this point, all things are totally still possible.

    • Allen K,
      Remember the magazine Highlights for Children, it came out in 1946, so perhaps Forrest would remember it also. But when I was a kid in the 70’s they had a section called Hidden Pictures, you had to find the smaller hidden pictures within the larger picture. I believe you are correct, there are some abberations as Forrest states, around the edges, Tipped In. Good find !

    • Hi Allen, I am pretty sure ff has said someone else did the illustrations, and to that effect, the ink and line position is from the same hand. So unless forrest told the illustrator to write four dots that might be interpreted on a coffee high (or more powerful substance) as “blaze”, i don’t think it is there.. besides the obvious problem that then two people would know about the ‘blaze’ which is counter to what ff has expressed in the past.

      so that would be 99.999% chance of “no” on that one.

      • Did Forrest tell Alan Polt to mimic Norman Rockwell in half the drawings or did Alan Polt just decide to do that on his own without consulting the author?

        Did Alan Polt decide to mirror this image for no apparent reason, and then add this hat?

        Im just pointing out that its strange —an aberration of sorts — just like half the stories and repetitive themes in the book.

        • SB 152 about BOY Calling Information. At the end of this SB. Forrest posts the following: Life should be an illustrated search for hidden treasures, and not just a guided tour. f

  55. I see a word but it’s not blaze..
    There’s other things going on in that drawing..

  56. Yessir! I mean YesBEC!

    I don’t know if Forrest ever saw the Hidden Pictures in Highlights magazine, but I truly feel it’s there in spirit:

    Imagination is more important than knowledge.

    • Guys, about the pictures, yes, f has (for lack of a better word) manipulated pics. Not just the pics as seeing a car or word in them, but he has had some fun with almost all the illustrations. Some are telling, like S/B 129, the cloud pic under his bronze, others are just f having fun.
      Mostly from what I have seen, I would say 85-90% of the illustrations have some sort of play with the pic. If you don’t see anything, I have found that if you copy the pic, flip it horizontally, paste the original over the pic, and go to 50% opacity, at times you can see an underlying picture, and not just symmetry.
      SB 129 is like that. The cloud pic looks like nothing until you do that and see that “Eric gave X”, with an arrow pointing down to an “X”. Again, might be a hint, but mostly it’s f having fun.
      As far as helping with a solve, the thought might be very “wise” to consider. If f spent the time doing something chase related, then it’s always a good idea to check it out.

      • Chicago radio WGN interview, March 2013:
        Minute 10:45,
        Q: Does the book give me any more information than I would get from the poem?
        A: “There are some subtle hints in the ** text** of the book that will help you with the clues.  The poem will take you to the chest but the book by itself won’t.” f

        This next question seems to indicate the TOTC book is enough… Just throwing it in for fun;
        Q: Is it an advantage to buy The Thrill of the Chase and Too Far to Walk?
        A: There are hints in my TTOTC book that can help solve the clues in the poem.
        Note; he doesn’t mention the tftw book.

        There have been many discussions about the pics and illustrations… I know somewhere in this site fenn mentioned he didn’t do the illustrations, another did them for him [hired out]. It would seem to me if the other noticed any changes, a bell would ring… don’tcha think?

      • I agree with you poison ivy.. in several SB’s Forrest has pointed out hints related to photos in TTOTC… The postmarks are hints IMO and I use a few in my solution. This is a remarkable well written, well thought out treasure hunt. I hope it has a happy ending! The best of luck!

  57. Greetings Everyone,

    I have not made a post on this thread yet. Not sure I have any thoughts on the blaze as of yet. I suppose I only would say that if the blaze is a physical queue or marker, then it is most likely in, on or made of something fairly permanent so as to stand the test of time. So marks on trees or in logs or things easily removable to able to be undone so to speak, would not seem to fit the idea of permanency. Stone is a likely candidate, as is a geological structure. Which brings me to a slightly unrelated point.

    FF has mentioned that good knowledge of Rocky Mountain geography would be useful. In this quote which I do not know where to point anyone, he does not say geology. I think this is an important distinction in terms of the overall poem, not necessarily the blaze. I say this because in a recent conversation about the location of a city in a state I just had with a friend, I remarked that I didn’t know that states geography all that well. That triggered an inert awareness of what the word geography means and I thought of FF’s words. So names of places do indeed seem to play their part in the Chase. Else why would knowledge about the geography of the Rockies be useful? And this brings me to another point I have made elsewhere.

    If names of places (geography) is important, than surely the choice of map is equally important. I say this because every map is known to only have certain geographies associated with it. Two maps of an identical area or region may show very different geographies. And yes I realize most everyone uses GE. That doesn’t mean FF didn’t give us a map more fitting of the geographical place(s) the poem points us to.

    All IMO.


    • Hi Ann Geography is more about physical features and how humans affect them then it is about names of places. Here is a good quote from FF on mysterious writings that can give us a some insight to place names:

      I don’t know how Toponymy can help you at all Chris (I had to look that word up). But if you knew the geographic location of each clue it would be a map to the treasure. F

      • Aaron,

        Thank you for the FF quote. That was my take on the geography reference by FF. It is interesting how when we think of geography classes we think of countries and capitals and the like (names of places really). After my post above I took a closer look at the concept of geography in the context of the quote you have referenced. We humans have a great knack for labeling everything so while I agree geography tends to be about physical features (and places such as cities, states, etc.. etc.) we ultimately have to pick somewhere to go to get the chest.

        What I like about the quote you have referenced is that it would appear FF is letting us know that the geographical names don’t have any direct connection to the clues in the poem (Save maybe one? That’s a hard maybe.) but rather geography (such as water, canyon, creek, and directions (i.e.-elevation)) certainly does. And if this is the case )and I’d be willing to bet that it is), then it begs the question, where does the poem point us to (in terms of a geographical name place) in order to apprehend the geography FF has described for us?

        I have said before that the poem alone does not seem to lend us much in the way of answering the question I just stated. So I wondered if there was a particular map that would give us better suggestion. While that question remains open, I will note that there are FF quotes that have been brought to my attention regarding answers he has made to questions about what will help in finding the chest. I don’t have those quotes here as I admittedly am a poor notetaker on the Chase. But the gist is that something(s) more than just the poem may be of help.

        What exactly will help best and to what degree, I cannot say. I will just say that I assume FF has given us everything we needed from the get go. All IMO.


  58. the BLAZE can be seen from approximately 200ft away , so as your going up your creek , look to your lrft . just imo of corse .

    • The creek is on the left , I don’t believe the chest is on the left. The poem IMO doesn’t specify left or right for the chest, it just specifies the creek to be on the left. In my solve the chest is on the right. After you head to Heavy Loads and Water High. I have my reasons.

    • JPE,
      I really don’t believe you can see the blaze from 200 feet away. If searchers have been (within) 200 feet (200 feet or less) and never saw it, then (even without knowing it was close) they would have seen it…. most all searchers when BOTG have their Blaze detectors on High… In my solution there are too many scattered trees within 200 feet, so I would estimate about 30 feet or less before you can see the blaze. All in my own vivid imagination of course.

  59. I have a question , i can`t find where FF said anything about how far the chest is from the blaze . i thought he did one time but i can`t find it . does anyone know ? please reply , jpe

    • Hi JPE: Mysterious Writings Weekly Words for May 13th, 2016 were combined with the Featured Question: “Mr. Fenn: How far is the chest located from the blaze? ~ casey.”

      “Casey, I did not take the measurement, but logic tells me that if you don’t know where the blaze is it really doesn’t matter. If you can find the blaze though, the answer to your question will be obvious. Does that help?f”

      That’s the only reference to a treasure-to-blaze distance I’m aware of.


        • JPE, The Blaze is above the chest, I believe the chest is in a small Rock well with a slab lid over it. The Blaze is either on the lid facing skyward or next to the Rock Well just above the treasure location. All in my imagination! We will find out come spring!

    • Please pardon my skepticism.

      I imagine that the blaze may be more visible at some times, compared to some other times. You imply that it is invisible for most of a day.

      Well, technically, it is invisible to anybody in Africa all the time.

      I believe that if a searcher is on the “correct” BOTG path during a decent
      (i.e., not raining or snowing) summer day, that the blaze will be visible if the
      searcher looks in the “correct” direction from the “correct” place.

      Please reply if you wish. Thanks in advance. As always, IMO.

  60. Tall , thin bottle with green lid , looked like olives were placed in , one at a time . ever notice how those olives look all pushing against the inside of jar , like a rock wall or formation . IMO

    • I I used to write letters, put them in bottles, and watch them go merrily down the stream. Found one of them later stuck in the mud, or was that a dream?

      • PS
        I found the blaze by accident in a daydream. I’m not cut out to be wise enough to solve the rest. Maybe if I found the right Clues.

  61. Let’s have some fun –
    Start your thinking process over (forget EVERYTHING you’ve considered before) and take a look at the poem. ONLY the poem.

    Step One – We know F said to “begin it where warm waters halt” ….
    so where IN THE POEM is there a reference to warm water (or such) and where does it halt?

    When y’all are satisfied, perhaps then we can move on to Step Two.
    I’m prob all wet but heck ain’t “it” worth a try?

    • Oops – wrong page. Will repost on the “Odds & Ends” page.
      (Dal maybe will delete this one?)

  62. several times I’ve heard or read ff responding to questions about the blaze, with a remark that usually goes something like (why start in the middle)

    example would be this quote from ff, from Cynthia’s blog (see bottom links of this blog page), a video speaking with a NYT reporter.

    reporter: “I didn’t find anything that /……./ that struck me as being the blaze”

    ff: “I’m gonna have to talk to Cynthia
    because …. why would you, if you have
    clues to, to a solution why would you
    start in the middle instead of at the
    first one?”

    imo this seems like ff is trying to tell us that the blaze is not the last clue to “a solution”.

    this quote above specifically is not saying in the middle of the poem, but rather the middle of the solution… imo, how could we take away anything other than that, that it is a clue and importantly not the last clue?

    of course he could be cloaking in “subterfuge” here.

    • Writis – I like your thought here and I am still not convinced to what the 9 clues actually are and sometimes I wonder if it really matters as long as you “follow” the poem. But I also think that sometimes Forrest may speak in the same manner in which he wrote the poem. In other words, he knows what he is referring to in his thoughts, but does not always convey those entire thoughts in his words. Perhaps sometimes on purpose to not give away too much, and at other times, not. So perhaps another way to think about his comment would be:

      ff: “I’m gonna have to talk to Cynthia
      because …. why would you, if you have
      clues to, to a solution (in the poem) why would you
      start in the middle (of the poem) instead of at the
      first one/clue (in the poem)?”

      Just another possible way to look at it. Not saying it’s right as I am interjecting my thoughts into something Forrest said. But isn’t that how we all sometimes interrupt what he says….reading between the lines? But then again that is probably what gets a lot of us in trouble. LOL!

      • Gysergirl, in my solution the blaze is definitely not the last clue. “Look quickly down your quest to cease” has led most to assume that this line is the last thing you need to do. It is not according to my solve. You do have to look down, there’s no doubt about that in my solve, but does your quest cease there? Not exactly. You have to take the chest and go in peace after that. But even that is not the end of it all according to solve. If you have the keyword(s) figured out then you are looking at a different set of clues than most people. If you don’t, then you need to group the lines in the poem starting at line 5 into the nine clues. One line does not necessarily equal one clue in my solve. In my solve the blaze is below the home of brown. It is described using four lines in the poem. Those are:
        From there…meek
        the end….nigh
        there’ll be no …creek
        Just heavy…high

        Those four lines describe the blaze in my solve. The blaze has to fit all four of those lines in my opinion. However, if you are not at the correct location, you can still get there but these four lines may not all be describing the blaze.

        I know that sounds confusing. This puzzle is meant to be confusing. Do you think it’s a coincidence that so many people find a location that fits all the lines in the poem? And each of these are all different locations? Do you think that Forrest Fenn was unaware that there are so many places in the Rockies that seem to fit all the lines in the poem?

        No, he was fully aware that there are many places in the Rockies that fit all the lines in the poem in my view. That’s what makes this puzzle a challenge. From that point of view, there will be many blazes, but only one that is the one at the correct location. It’s like a maze. We are the mice. There’s a piece of cheese in here somewhere. We can all smell it. If you go left, you could have gone right. You could go straight. Does every turn lead to a dead end or do some of them loop back around and reconnect with the correct path?

        I hope this post gets you thinking in some new ways and leads you to a correct solve, but not before I get the chest. LOL Good luck and best wishes.

        • JoJo – Interesting thoughts. I do have a keyword that I “think” helps with the big picture solve to help confirm you are in the correct area. And it does give me another entirely different approach, but still follows the 9 clues, IMO. But like everyone else, it’s just a guess until the chest is in hand.

          Not sure I agree with your 4 lines describing the blaze, but that’s just because it is not how it’s working for me. But then again, I think we need to be “flexible” once we are BOTG.

          And yes, Forrest is a genius for sure. He knew EXACTLY what he was doing. LOL!

          Thanks for your words and good luck on your quest as well.

    • 42, wrong state. It’s not in Utah. I assume you know that already but just in case you don’t, Fenn said it’s in one of four states: Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, or New Mexico. And it’s in the Rocky Mountains somewhere. It is interesting you found a ski run called Hidden Treasure though. Thanks for sharing that!

  63. I’m sure this has been discussed before, but I always come back to the fact that The blaze line is the only clue that starts in the past tense and ends in the present tense implying you have preexisting knowledge about it somehow. It could be simply a way of slowing the tempo of the poem because your at the treasure. Or that if you have somehow figured out what the blaze is through the books and then you are wise and will see it. But my suspicion is that the blaze could have been “passed” by along the trail of clues and you would have theoretically seen it already along the trail of clues, albeit you may not have physically seen it. Most searchers aren’t walking their solves because they are too far to walk and it isn’t practical and we are focused on the end only. Or because we access heavy loads and water high via a different more convenient path. So this would mean to find the blaze you might back track toward NPUYC. This also may account for searchers being 200/500’ and missing it, because they don’t backtrack enough. Or they go right passed it on paper, in the solve they write to him about, but aren’t actually physically seeing. It seems logical that the “big show” is at/near heavy loads and water high and we would stay there
    or move just beyond it to find the blaze with NPUYC in the opposite direction. However perhaps heavy loads might just be a location for context only and we have to revert backwards to find what we already saw. IMHO.

    • It was a little tough to read with no line breaks but I got through it and I agree with most of what you said.
      Matt, you seem to be a very logical thinker and dissected that line in the poem beautifully.

      There’s a reason why he wrote that line the way he did. Very intentional along with all the other words in the poem.

      I do believe you pass the blaze on the way to heavy loads and water high but you have to follow the path in the poem and confirm there are heavy loads and water high up your creek, then move on backwards from where you came.

      Not too far back though.

    • Matt, the blaze line in the poem looks like this:

      If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,

      This looks like it’s all in past tense.

      As always, in my opinion.

        • Why would you change found to find, Jake? Doesn’t that change the tense and thereby the premise that one needs to find the blaze from one has already done so?

          • I agree with Bowmarc. Don’t mess with the poem! You can’t change the poem to fit your solution. I have done that in the past and ultimately I’ve abandoned my solution. It’s not the poem that’s broken. It was my thinking.

          • Jake said “to some, it looks like this….

            Meaning, to some they see it a different way and then Jake wrote out the different way.

            No harm in that.

          • @FD – I think the implication by Jake was that he saw it like that, hence my asking for some clarity.

          • Here’s clarity Bomarc.

            To some, it looks like this:
            If you’re wise and find the blaze,

            No implication, that’s your imagination.

          • Jake, are you speaking for others — with permission from them? Good luck interpreting the

    • Matt and all – I know a lot of searchers believe that line 13 in the poem in the past tense may imply we should already know what/where the blaze is. I waver on this issue, but lean more towards “we will recognize it” from having been wise to the rest of the clues and hints in the poem/TTOTC. Meaning the average person would go right past it.

      Also, I think about a statement he made below:
      “Second, I have not said that a searcher was closer then 12 feet from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.”

      So think about that. To me, that is saying the blaze will be recognized fairly quickly and from a decent distance. In other words, we don’t have to be right on top of it to find it. That is, if we’ve been wise.

      So think of that line as a whole unit, not two thoughts…
      If you’ve been wise and found the blaze….the clues lead you directly to what you understand immediately as the blaze. There is no “finding/searching.” It’s already been found by you!

      Does that make sense? All IMO only and another way to look at it.

      • Geysergirl, According to my solve, 12 feet is pushing it for the statement by Fenn. If you are that close, I assume that Fenn assumes that the only reason you’s be that close is that you know it’s there. However, I saw someone standing nearly right on top of it and didn’t know it. At the time I did not realize that it was there. I figured that out after I got home. But you can indeed be right next to it and not see it according to my solve.

        Now there is a small caveat to that in my opinion. Fenn may be talking about two different things. He often makes statements knowing that we are going to assume what he meant, but he didn’t actually say what he knows we might assume he did. If someone was 12 feet from the treasure, does that mean that he/she was 12 feet from the chest? Or the trove? Or the ‘Treasure Chest’? Are all these terms referring to the same thing?

        • I’ve wondered this for years, and don’t like it. It always
          seems like “back-pedalling” to me, when someone says
          “treasure”, without meaning the bronze chest and its
          contents. But I’ll plan to take another BOTG hike to “my”
          groovy place and do a thorough search anyway, based on
          faith. Guilt levels may vary. As always, IMO.

  64. No -no harm. I agree. But I’m sure if Forrest meant for the phrase to “look like” present tense, he would have written it in the present tense, which he could have easily done. But composing the poem like “an architect”, he chose to phrase it in the past tense. Every word was chosen carefully. I wouldn’t go by “looks like”. That sounds like force-fitting a to me, which I’ve done many times (but only in the past!)

  65. Hi All,

    I think we should pay close attention to the difference between the order of the poem and the order of the clues. In other word, you have to interpret “consecutive” differently (time vs position). The reason behind the fact that the line 13 is written in the past tense is, IMO, the same as the previous 2 lines are written in the future tense.

    Also notice that ONLY semicolon in the whole poem is shown between the line 10 and 11. As someone already pointed this out some time ago, this shouldn’t be overlooked.

    Oh, one more thing. If you’re still struggling to find the heavy loads and water high, you’ll never get any closer to the TC than 500 feet, IMHO.

    — MajinKing

  66. I used to think the blaze’s color (generally speaking) could best be described as “pretty much white”, or “whitish”, but now am not so sure.

  67. MOO – (My opinion only) – the blaze is where I will want to go alone in there and recover the TC. MOO – tarry scant with marvel gaze helps me to confirm the blazes identity (in all its glory) – if correct… what an awesome hideout! {‘Safe and secret’ but not dangerous}
    A special place to Forrest in life and then in death which the blaze would mark (had he felt the need to follow through with the full plan – IMO)
    Would it be there in 1,000 years? I really don’t know, but I think the possibility is there.
    The blaze may also be the reason others have not gone alone in there… and thus Forrest has felt confident the TC would remain hidden for sometime.
    June/July or August? Would be nice if I actually got the opportunity to do some BOTG.

    • Do you mean the blaze may be intimidating/scary? I never thought of it as such.

      • tf2
        No… not intimidating or scary. I have never thought of it that way either. Which is why I stated: “{‘Safe and secret’ but not dangerous}” [all this being complete assumption of course that the blaze idea I have is even close to, or similar to what the blaze may actually be when someone finds the TC – not likely me as the odds of doing BOTG are pretty slim at this point in my life].
        What I am proposing above as to why the TC may have been walked past (500′) having been suggested… is that what would stand out to one individual as a blaze may be something blatant in it’s nature because that is what we have been trained by modern society and conveniences to notice – one only has to think about what advertisements stand out, what signs to a gas station or restaurant at the side of a free way stands out enough that we decide to pull of there.
        While Forrest likely – MOO – picked something that one would not normally consider… not because it is intimidating or scary.
        Without giving too much away as to what may be the blaze… let me give the following example.
        ScrapBook 92: “Over the last few thousand years several hundred nature-toughened Indians had rested their butts on the very rock upon which I sat. I just knew it. Can you imagine how that made me feel?”
        MOO – Forrest knew where to look for artifacts etc. He knew where an Indian would likely make camp, or sit to chip some new arrowheads, or hunt or fish.
        It is just me I know… but this brought to mind other things I have seen on my own past adventures, read etc. that gave me an idea that would be fun to verify (one way or the other) . If (and of course that is a BIG if) correct, I and others would walk on by more often than not without a second thought. IMO – to Forrest it would stick out like a sore thumb.
        I think it is our modern world that has taught us to be attracted to bright and flashy things or something huge or fantastic in some form or other – so to speak. Thus we get the blaze wrong.
        That being said… I now believe the blaze is something that does stand out, but one that would have received more attention a few hundred years ago, but not so likely now. — sorry if that all seems cryptic, but don’t want to just blurt it all out

  68. Allow me to make you an offering on the altar of imagination. I present a NEW IDEA on what the blaze could represent.

    First, a quote from Mysterious Writings, Questions with Forrest, 7/2016, Forrest Fenn, to establish context:

    “If you look the word burial up in the dictionary, it talks about sepulchering, about entombing, and there’s all kind of definitions. Quite frankly, it’s very confusing. So I don’t want to answer the question whether the treasure chest is buried or not. Let me give you an example: if I laid the treasure chest on top of the ground, and some weeds blew in there and covered it up, now is it buried or isn’t it? Is it sepulchered? Is it entombed. So, it’s best not to go there I think. The clues will lead you the treasure and whether it’s buried or not, you can find it if you find the blaze as a result of starting with the first clue. That’s what you have to do.”

    The altars within ancient churches consisted of a mensa, or stone slab often supported by pillars. These altars, often had compartments which concealed hidden holy objects, or relics. In the book: Christian Altars and Their Accessories, from The Architectural Record Vol. IV. January-March 1895, a historical perspective on the architecture of Christian altars is offered. A description of the use of relics hidden in sepulchers is described below:

    “V. If small relics are used, there must never be less than two. They with three grains of incense are put in a leaden box, either square or round, closed with a cover, tied down with a red ribbon crossed and sealed with the signet of the consecrating bishop, and placed in a square cavity called a sepulchre, three inches by three inches hollowed out of the center of the mensa of sufficient depth to receive the box and allow room for a cover of stone, which when in place, must be flush with the upper face of the slab and fastened with cement. If the relic is the body of a saint it is placed under the mensa within the altar.”

    Could it be that Forrest Fenn was going to throw his body under this “blaze,” a mensa-like object found in nature, or constructed by Forrest? Could you look down and find his relics (treasure) sepulchered with him? If you find this blaze, maybe you’ll find out.


    Mysterious Writings
    Google Books

    •  “My church is in the mountains and along the river bottoms where dreams and fantasies alike go to play.” FF, Thrill of the Chase, pg. 4. 

      • I like that idea, elperro. A church in the mountains where a river runs beside it. Serene, spiritual, and divine.

        What better a place to reside for eternity?

    • Fascinating elperro! I like your take on the subject. Now, if I can just find that pesky blaze!

      • Hi DTakaRS
        It’s in the TTotC book, It’s one of the subtle hints.
        Memorize the poem,read the book.Think

  69. Elperro,

    Interesting take on it. I learned something new, again!

    Put in a leaden box? That would render metal detectors useless, no?

    Good luck and stay safe!


    Does anybody know if Forrest has all his Saintly toes?

  70. He mentioned in the Wood & Tree’s Have markings on them that are called Blaze’s.
    Some tree’s in the rocky mountains are huge & some are hollow. He says look down once u find the Blaze ,so the Blaze should be something u can physically see before u look down it should be eye lvl at least. Also ‘No paddle up ur creek” ,should mean u are walking up against the waters flow not with it… Also “Heavy Loads & water high” ,to me seems like you’ve reached a waterfall after going up creek… He mentions going inside ,some tree’s have a big enough hollow space to walk in. And the simple fact he mentioned Wood instead of Woods I believe it’s a Hollow tree that the treasure is inside & a person can fit in… Idk ,maybe ppl should start searching backwards from waterfalls & see if it leads u to where warm waters halt. I would fo look for treasure myself using my methods but I’m not financially straight to be traveling at all…

    • Jamar Judd,

      Set up a “go fund me” account. Many are in the same boat. Advantages exist this year. Good luck to ya!


    • There is a tree like that in Sherwood Forrest. Might be fun to take a bow and arrow and enjoy a little role play.

      While on the subject. Robin Hoods grave is only 3 miles from my home. Developers have been trying to seek permission to bulldoze the site, making way for development. We managed to successfully campaign against it. Its very sad indeed that someone would even consider it.

  71. @everyone – I have a question, & I’m hoping for some feedback. On one of Kpro’s podcasts Cynthia stated that FF claimed to have only been to his personal, special, private, & dear place twice, … I mean EVER. Is that NOT odd?

    So was the blaze already there or did FF need to create one to serve his purpose?

    • Becky,

      That is odd. It should be a minimum of three times. He went twice just to hide the treasure! And I imagine once before to know about the place. Do you know the link to that podcast?


    • Maybe he only dropped the landing gear twice but zoomed in repeatedly.

    • .
      Yep, this is a bit of a mystery. Do the two trips from his car to hide the treasure count is only one visit to the location or spot? Did he know of a secret hiding spot at the treasurers location which could only be known by a previous boots on the Ground visit? Inquiring minds want to know

    • Beck,

      There are a few ways of looking at this and all are speculation.
      We have been told when he got cancer he knew where he wanted to die and take it with him.
      The question is; was this location visited by him before the thought or did he just know of the place, yet never been there?
      The two prior trips could have be to scope out the landscape for the purpose of the poem and it’s clues.
      That seems strange yet possible. He said he holds this place in high regards… I think many of us can say the same about places we know of but never been. A simple example YSNP.

      The kicker is, if the latter idea is true…how can we figure out this location. I dare say when we read the book or poem we’re looking for places Fenn mentioned but has never been.

      Anyways… Astree brought up something I have been talking about… Regardless of when he went to the location, it seems to me the location is about where all the clues are at. This gives pause to the idea he knew of a 10″ sq. spot prior.
      It seems more reasonable that he created the clues that allowed him find a spot to secret the chest.
      This would mean the blaze could be a prior clue and used to locate the hidey spot… Not just for us to follow but for Fenn himself… to complete the poem.
      Meaning; there is know other way, “to his knowledge,” but to follow the clues precisely.

      Simply saying; he created clues within his special place in such a manner he himself used them to *find a spot* to hide the TC.

      Note; like I have implied before… How the chest remains out of sight or won’t be stumbled upon doesn’t matter… The clues will should reveal where that spot is to *know* the chest is there. Those who haven’t figured all the clues could simply walk by this spot..imo.. because they are looking for a blaze that was already found. They just simply didn’t understand it to be the blaze or why it is the blaze.

      This brings up another question I have asked… Can clues be repeated, yet describe differently in different stanzas?

      Can hoB be the blaze?
      Can HL be hoB?
      Can WH be WWsH?
      Can stanza 3 explain how those clue references are to be used?
      Did Fenn use his clues to find a / the hidey spot -?- hid the chest, thus the poem’s clues are complete (completed?)

      • Interesting thoughts Seeker. Not sure it would work for most places but who knows – JDA

      • So, how do you locate the spot Seeker, if you have to be there to activate the clue sequence?

  72. A wise old oak. If we are wise and find the blaze? Maybe there is an oak tree that fits the bill?

  73. @Ann O’Nymous – Wow! Great name. I love it!

    Sorry, I do NOT know the link to that podcast, but surely I can locate it for you. It was one of Kpro’s with Cynthia as a guest. I’ll find it … & let you know.

    • Becky,

      Thanks! Glad you like the name. It’s Irish for sure! Looking forward to the link and this new line of dialogue!


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