The Blaze…

yellow

This is the place to discuss the the blaze. What do you think it is? Is it temporary or permanent? Will it be around for a thousand years or doesn’t it matter? Is it easy to spot or difficult? Does the poem tell us what the blaze looks like or what it is?

Nick Lazaredes of SBS-TV’s Dateline in Australia interviewed Forrest in the spring of 2014. Here is Forrest explaining the BLAZE.
https://dalneitzel.com/video/audio/blaze.mp3

189 thoughts on “The Blaze…

    • Here ya go, Francis –

      FORREST FENN: The Blaze is a physical thing. It’s not theoretical. Boy did I give you a big clue. That’s not a clue, I mean, it doesn’t take a scientist to figure out that the blaze is something you can look at.

      NICK LAZAREDES: But what is it, exactly? Blaze is a collection of something?

      FENN: A horse has a blaze on his forehead here. I mean, there are rocks that have a white face could be a blaze. I mean, there’s a fire that’s blazing. I mean, I could give you a thousand different scenarios there. And all of them come to me in – by email. Everybody finds a different one. The fact is, the important one is out there.

  1. My fantasy idea of what the blaze is, is a rainbow appears when the sunlight touches on a water fall at just the right moment.

    • I used to think it might be a rainbow by a waterfall, but like a shadow it is dependent on the sun. On a cloudy day the blaze would not be there. Don’t wont to dissuade you from your theory, just giving my thoughts.

    • Nice, like magic. I once had an idea to stand in a particular spot on the summer solstice, and I’ll be darn.. g

      • Confirmation bias maybe, but such amazing odds. It may be keeping me from considering other places, but I can’t get that sunset out of my head. g

  2. I’ve made a curious observation that ~might~ be connected to the blaze. Consider that Z is the least frequently used letter in English, and B is not that far behind at 7th rarest. Now look at these:

    TFTW chapter 32: Bella ABZUG
    SB 10: Wolfgang POGZEBA
    SB 103: the ZEBRA boots

    ABZUG, POGZEBA, ZEBRA and BLAZE all contain the letters A, B and Z. If you throw in Bella’s first name, then all four contain the letters A, B, E and Z. You could also include the BILLINGS GAZETTE from the Totem Cafe chapter of TTOTC, Forrest’s BRONZE STAR from My War For Me, the BRONZE INDIAN (or “it’s A BRONZE”) from Teachers With Ropes, and even San Lazaro Pueblo.

    Another word with A, B, E and Z? BOZEMAN.

  3. Is the blaze a single object? “In a word… yes”

    This exchange should have all searchers thinking. Also, can the blaze be removed? “It’s possible, but certainly not feasible. I suppose it could be obliterated.” Disclaimer: the second quote is paraphrasing, but HUGE clues have been given by Forrest, IMO. I also think that FF gave one whopper of a hint concerning the blaze on this very website, but too many people were focused on the ants and they missed the elephant that walked by. All in my humble opinion, of course.

    • Hi RedneckFromMS: gotta be careful with those paraphrasals or they might lead you astray (but you are to be lauded for including your Disclaimer!) The quote about blaze removal is part of what follows (from Nine Clues Part 31 back on 9/26/2014):

      “I had an enjoyably (sic) visit with Tom and his brother at the Downtown Subscription Coffee Shop in Santa Fe. They seemed like nice guys and avid treasure hunters. But there is confusion somewhere. While it’s not impossible to remove the blaze it isn’t feasible to try, and I am certain it’s still there.”

      “And while I’m here I’d like to make some comments:

      I have never said that a searcher was within 2-feet of the treasure, or 6-feet, or 20.

      None of my bronze bells or jars are buried at San Lazaro Pueblo.

      The CE5 phrase on the treasure chest is of no value to searchers.

      Snow and freezing temperatures have already arrived to parts of the Rocky Mountains. If you plan to search this winter please be safe.”

      • Thanks Zap. I almost didn’t post it, as I was going from memory. Don’t know how the word “obliterate” became lodged in my memory, but it did. I’ll look around more to see if I can find a quote to that effect. In any case, I THINK I know what the blaze is, although the riddle drove me crazy for more than two years. IMO, 99% of people overcook the poem, and their solution.

    • Redneck,
      Could it be possible the second part of your comment be confused with this Q&A about the chest, and not so much the blaze?

      Q~ According to recent research about the Yellowstone Supervolcanoe and if I do the maths right, there is a 1 in 700 chance the treasure will get blown to bits in the next 1000 years.
      Are you okay with those odds or does that make you feel like you should move the treasure? …preferably somewhere closer to me.
      ~Chuck
      A~ I doubt that a volcanic eruption under Yellowstone Lake would blow the treasure chest to bits, no matter the odds, but it might spread a lot of beautiful cutthroat and lake trout around the country side. f

      • Seeker – I think Forrest considered the status of the Yellowstone Caldera, noting these earthquakes, when he hid the bronze chest in the Summer of 2010 (likely per Doug Preston’s observation of when he last saw it in Forrest’s vault):

        “In December 2008, continuing into January 2009, more than 500 quakes were detected under the northwest end of Yellowstone Lake over a seven-day span, with the largest registering a magnitude of 3.9. Another swarm started in January 2010, after the Haiti earthquake and before the Chile earthquake. With 1,620 small earthquakes between January 17, 2010, and February 1, 2010, this swarm was the second-largest ever recorded in the Yellowstone Caldera. The largest of these shocks was a magnitude 3.8 that occurred on January 21, 2010.”

        The last SuperVolcano eruption emitted ash high into the atmosphere. The Yellowstone Caldera boundary is at my WWWH at Madison Junction. Would that boundary of destruction get any larger if the SuperVolcano beneath blows again? Me thinks deeper, not wider. But the bronze chest would be deep within that ash at my hide-y spot. Like the conditions Forrest observed on his exploration of Pompeii.

        All IMO.

        • Lisa,

          My point was, I thought Redneck might have two different ATF-aft mixed into one. That’s a Titanic move when thinking about fenn’s comments.
          As far as YS popping its cork… The chest will be the last thing I’m gonna think about…

          However,
          I think there are hints to help with understanding when and why fenn hid the chest, and they involve the blaze directly.
          We are told;
          At age almost eighty. This equates to age 79.
          [ which fenn has also stated as age 79 – 80 ]
          That gives the impression of 2010 for the year of the hide. We also have book release date as a time period to add in. Later fenn stated he hid the chest in Summer. And we know fenn’s birth date of August.
          So, the hiding date can be narrowed down to summer of 2010, respectively. Some may say “Summer” can be May because of warmer weather… yet Summer starts in June [ not just because the calendar say so. There are reasons for this date going back millenniums ]. This leaves a window of mid June to mid August for the task to have been done.

          The question is; Is this information important or usable?
          IMO, the only way to answer that question is to see clues in the poem that may indicate something related to this; Time of Year for the task to be completed.
          I think there is, and it relates to the blaze itself. Not so much what the blaze is as an object, but how it is used to locate the chest.

          IF the theory is correct… those subtle pieces of information kinda implies a correct way of thinking, rather than, the idea of just deciphering clues as a place / location or a direction, only, to complete the task.

          • Hi Seeker: I don’t believe there is anything Forrest has said or written that conclusively excludes the possibility of him hiding the chest in the narrow summer window right after he turned 79 in August 2009 (i.e. from 8/22/2009 – 8/31/2009). However, the “flavor” of his post-hiding conversations in summer 2010 with both Doug Preston and Irene Rawlings suggests the act had been carried out fairly recently — within weeks rather than nearly a year previously.

            One thing we can surmise, assuming he wasn’t lying to BOTH Doug and Irene: he was 79 when he hid the chest.

        • Zap ~’However, the “flavor”…

          I like the way you put that. “flavor” It sound like the idea of; We pick what we [each of us] like best, line of thinking. It almost creates us to have an illusion of how we want the poem to be read, rather than how it was intended.

          This is the way I see many thing stated by fenn.. be it from the book, or ATF’s.
          ** it’s not what I say, It’s what you think I said**

          For any of it to be *helpful or conclusive* in any manner to solving the poem… it should be found while deciphering the poem… right?

          My point… I think it is.
          And in all honesty, its not so clear cut when first read…lol this is not a KiSS moment.
          When we read the poem, the first impression is ‘gone a lone in there’ as a place. Can’t argue that impression. The same for stanza 2… this stanza seems like a place to find; this and that. Again, can’t argue that impression either.
          However, stanza 3 and 4 [ while I got the same impression as the first two stanzas, at first read ] When I read stanza 3 by it self, the first question is have is *from where*?
          Nothing has told me to move from stanza 2. “From there” seems to be a place within stanzas 2 references.
          Stanza 3 talks about a place, not for the meek. My conclusion for a thought process is; stanza 2, or part of, is no place for the meek.

          OK how the heck can that be?…Right?
          Well stanza 3 talks more about situations, than places. This stanza doesn’t have wording like those found in stanza 2… being, take it in, put in, below…
          Stanza 3 is more about descriptors of terms used as feelings or emotions or a situation.
          Meek……. timid, sheepish
          Ever drawing nigh…. coming to an end
          up that famous creek… self explanatory.
          Heavy loads… burden
          Water high… *feeling like* ya can’t keep your head above water.

          While the idea is the two stanzas [ 2 n 3 ] need to connect… who is to say they are of different locations-?- and not part of *how* to finalize the task, of *following* the clues.

          Something Planned for?
          Something observed?
          And if so… why does stanza 3 seem to talk about a situation for doing that?
          These are questions I ask myself.

          I think stanza 4 kicks into *why* we need to have *found* the blaze… a past action… not present or future action.
          This seems to have been done in stanza 2… a place where WWsH, a place with a canyon, a place with a reference to hoB.
          “From there” [in stanza 2] we are told in stanza 4 to finalize our quest; “Look quickly down” Quickly indicates a time factor.
          “But tarry scant” Also indicates a time factor [to linger a short – time]. “with marvel gaze” [Gaze as to ‘look steadily’ and in most case means; for a short to to gaze]

          In this reading of the poem… everything take place in a close related location of stanza 2 and relates to the blaze as part of stanza 2.

          Stanza 3 and 4 related to how the tasked is finished… in this reading of the poem
          Stanza’s 3; deciphering, interpretation of the clues presented;
          FTINPFTM… a situation of an overnight stay. alone, in the mountains [ for some, [city folks] this not a pleasant thought ] “your effort will be worth the could” [hinting to the same].
          TEIEDN… end of the night drawing near by morning light [ hints of riches…a new day arise from the old ]
          TBNPUYC … not an impossible task. But also; in a certain month. The month is important and hinted about, imo.
          ‘Just’ heavy loads and water high.
          This line might have more meaning to what hoB might related to as; heavy loads.
          as well as,
          WH relating to WWsH.

          **Just** meaning; entirely, altogether, completely, exactly, precisely…
          or interpreted as; all relating; revolving around stanza’s 2 physical place[s]. @ WWsH.

          In theory:
          We need WWsH. without it, none of the other clues can be accomplished.
          Without WWsH, hoB is not understood.
          Without WWsH, the blaze can not be discovered. [“wise and found” indicates *knowing* of the discovery]
          Without stanzas 3 n 4 descriptors, we don’t know how to finalize the task.

          IMO… there is no way for a short cut, or complete solve of the clues be done at home, to the *solve* solving of the poem.
          And it seems to me… fenn needed to follow his own created clues, to finalize, where the chest was hidden, in a 10″ sq spot, at his special place he wante the chest to lay in wait.

          I hopefully have shown a month, day, time of day, and reasons for them, within the poem to utilize the blaze. or at the very least… how the blaze itself can be discovered.

          But I’m not holding my breathe that all will see or understand it. Mainly because of the preset notion, kicked off in stanzas 1 and 2, that all clues should be of different location, line of thinking.
          That, imo. is an illusion the readers place on themselves.

          • *** *** *** ***
            SEEK – “But I’m not holding my breathe that all will see or understand it. Mainly because of the preset notion, kicked off in stanzas 1 and 2, that all clues should be of different location, line of thinking. That, imo. is an illusion the readers place on themselves.”
            *** *** *** ***

            If I understand it, your 3rd stanza goes something like this (much simplified)?

            Put in below the home of Brown.

            From there it’s an overnight stay
            And get up as night is ending (before dawn)
            Oh and make sure it’s the right month
            [not sure I get your 4th line reading]

            I don’t see it, though, and I don’t think that’s because of any of the preset-notion-induced illusions you’re projecting (my theoretical area is quite small, doesn’t require much travel by foot or vehicle).

            My spirit guide Waylon Jennings always challenges me to ask myself (of my own ideas, as well as those of others)

            “Are you sure Hank done it this way?”

            On the 3rd stanza, I can definitely see it all as describing a place, a vista even. But a time? I think you really have to stretch the poem’s words beyond any suspension of disbelief to read it that way.

            I don’t think Hank done it this way.

            Jake

          • Ok JAK.

            You’re following well. But I have been declining my full thoughts of deciphering.
            You can imagine why.
            You got stanza’s 3 first line understood by my perspective. You have the second line as well.
            These two line basically say… stay where you start, and wait till morning light… ok we have a place and a time of day [please tell me you understand a time of *day* includes 24 hours of night and day light ..lol.. I had that argument before that night can’t mean a time of “day”] This is your effort that will be worth the cold, and, if you are brave and in the wood… however, I think that {BAITW} means something else as well. NOPE not saying it again. lol

            NPUYC is the month of June… June was always correct… June is the month when summer starts… June is the solstice…. and now, Summer was the time of year fenn hid the chest [do you see a pattern?] So we have a *month* a *time of month* a *time of season* and *a day*… as well as a time of day.

            Honestly it’s not hard to see June just from the too prior lines IF the theory is correct.
            At age almost 80.. kinda leans to the thought of June, because of the solstice for an overnight stay, and be “precise” in following the clues… the shadow knows.

            Do I know this is the correct style of solving this… hell IDK… but I’m not following the pack either. The stomping 9 different locations [ as many of the posted solves read as ] has failed miserably. [regardless of the size of the stomping area]
            It’s either the wrong way of solving or no one in the modern world can read a map.

            Hence the “planning and observing” part of the solve was born. Because I don’t see those two things talked about in solve on any blog I have been to.

            All I can hope is; I’m thinking the right thoughts. IF not, well, I’m not going to go on 50 trips anywhere just because of a hope n poke.

            Thanks for taking the time to even give it thought, and give a response. Most responses miss the first part.

  4. Quick question, I’m going BOTG in early August to a place I think has some potential. I think we went over this previously but I can’t find it now. So did Forrest ever give more details as to how far away the blaze is supposed to be from the treasure? I know he said if you are within 12′ of the treasure you should know it. Of course, the “look quickly down” in the poem seems to indicate the Blaze is elevated like a rock formation or waterfall but I think we had discussion as to whether he said anything about it being a certain distance away from the blaze. I don’t think there was a specific statement but just wanted to make sure. Unless a rock wall is shear I don’t anticipate that the treasure would be right at the base and if it’s a big wall, the crumbly rock and hill slump at the base might be steep and not a place an 80 yr old would scramble up. I’m thinking if you come into site of the blaze you might not want to race up the rockfall to it unless he said a certain distance but instead assess what is in your field of view down below first for hide spots.

    • This is as close as Forrest has come – as far as I know:

      Mr. Fenn: How far is the chest located from the blaze? ~ casey
      Casey, I did not take the measurement, but logic tells me that if you don’t know where the blaze is it really doesn’t matter. If you can find the blaze though, the answer to your question will be obvious. Does that help?f JDA

      • Yup JDA I remember this one. I was thinking we also had another conversation that had a distance. Maybe we did but we disproved it because of this one. Thanks

        • ???

          Bloggers have quoted me as saying that a child could walk up to the treasure. I don’t think that’s an accurate quote because a three year old girl would have a problem without some help. Remember, I was about 80 when I hid the chest, and had to make two trips.f

          • That’s an interesting quote Seeker, I am not sure why him being 80 and having to make 2 trips hinders a 3 year old from walking up to the treasure, if he said a 3 year old would need help to retrieve the treasure it would make more sense to me, but needing help walking up to the treasure, I am not sure what to make of it…

          • From my experience walking off trail, especially in Yellowstone, isn’t like walking in a park. Downed trees, mud, streams, animals. A number of things could cause a 3 year old to need help walking to the treasure.

          • Mark ~’ I am not sure why …I am not sure what to make of it ‘

            Exactly… and it might be just for that the reason, to ask.. why?

            Aaron make a good point about… but I had my kids in the woods at 3 4 5 years of age many times with no problems. Heck, some of our favorite fishing holes had no trails at all to get to. The biggest problem we came across was poison ivy.

          • Hey folks… I’ve always liked this comment because it seems to be a classic example how Fenn takes a question or just throws a little quip out there that twists the answer/words back on the idea itself. The whole *child* idea came about as a second hand comment and stirred up a frenzy at the time. Fenn seemed to fan the flames by simply throwing a 3 year old toddler in the mix… without nixing the original idea. I still believe he was trying to tell folks that the path to the treasure is not overly difficult…but perhaps there are couple of details involved[take your pick] that may not be quite so easy with 42 pounds on your back. Or not…

      • Hi JDA,
        what is your hypothesis about the distance between TC and the blaze?
        Sometimes phrases when Forrest doesn’t give complete answer contain some hidden hints.

        • Hi Andy;

          Interesting question. I have two answers really.
          1) If a shadow is involved, which I now believe it is, a point on the shadow or the end (one end or the other) would “point” to where Indulgence is. So, the length of the shadow would determine “how far” Indulgence would be from the blaze (or the shadow that was created by the blaze).

          2) If, as I think, a “Marking” of some kind is inscribed on a “Tarry Scant” (A stone that is flat on two sides), and this stone sits on top of where Indulgence rests, again, it would be obvious – a matter of inches.

          So, two possibilities – and MAYBE both will hold true – JDA

          P.S. Thanks for the question

          • JDA, thanks for your response.
            I like your second version i.e. inches between the blaze and TC. Maybe Forrest planned to use this flat stone (“Tarry Scant”) as a lid for some crevice/alcove where he was going to have an act of “self-sepulchering” (this stone should protect his body/bones from predators). Now this stone become the blaze and protect TC from accidental finding via visual methods. Not sure about any marking on stone surface – it can attract unwanted attention even from non-searchers.
            I’m still skeptical about your “moving shadow” theory but in my next BOTG I’ll definitely pay more attention to shadows.

          • So what time would you have to be at the Blaze to get the best and most accurate reading of the shadow. Seeing there are only 147 pages in TTOTC that would mean just afternoon? Or is the morning shadow. Just curious? What if the blaze faces east would the shadow cast be shorter than north to south?

          • Travis;

            I am betting on Summer Solstice sunrise – which has already passed for this year – (June 21, 2019 at 0545). For me, a feature on a rock outcrop point(ed) to where Indulgence rests. All is not lost though. A few calculations, use a couple Google Earth tools, and one can reproduce what the shadow probably looked like at that time and date. JMO – JDA

          • Travis, it seems that searchers discount this theory because one would have to be on site at a certain date and time. This would not be true. If a spot is found from the poem, along with a date and time, the shadow created could easily be figured out beforehand. Or, you could simply get the distance. Example, I have a spot along with a time and date. One of the previous clues says something in the effect that I take as getting a 7′ stick. With that stick standing, along with date and time, a shadow is created, making a right triangle. Figuring the shadow would be obvious, but doesn’t mean that I need to actually get that stick, etc. I have my distance from a spot.
            In this hypothetical, I don’t need to be there at a certain time or date, just need the distance from the spot to continue. This is what I think JDA is saying. A type of Indiana Jones in the map room thought.
            If it is so badly needed, the info to cover will be in the poem. So, in a subtle way, the poem would need to have a date and time, and a reference to something needed to make the shadow. The entire poem solve giving the “x” on a map.
            I’m with JDA on this one. There is references to all that is needed, at least from what I get. But the shadow is only part of the overall distance. As I see it, the shadow is an obvious distance that you could probably guess. 80′. But, from what I have, that’s not from the blaze. Of course, I reserve the right to have no idea.
            A distance from the blaze, that would be obvious, to me, would be around 200′. The one positive thing is that there is no way that line 13 is the last clue. The blaze cannot be the last clue. IMO, since that is true, and looking down or around would be obvious, which we would need as a clue to know what to do, it’s most likely there is a little distance. With the 200′, 500′ comments, it seems that one of those would be the answer. Especially if the blaze is the 4th clue.
            The main thing to think about is what to look for when trying to find the blaze. It would need to be in the poem, so either something from that line or marvel gaze isn’t something you have but an actual physical thing, that we don’t waste our time on. If so, then from marvel gaze, we look up. And, whatever is at marvel gaze, it may be of something needed to take, in theory. So back to the shadow idea…Don’t waste time there, just take the whatever and move on. If this is something you take, then it could be destroyed, so the poem would have to have a backup to figuring out a distance. So, whatever the case, the distance is what will be end factor. Shadow and key may be the around 200′ comment. Or, the 9th clue distance. Just a hypothetical thought.

          • The shadow theory as has been described here lately sounds non easy or simple to pull off.

          • FD;

            The elements of how a shadow theory might work, may be simple, (and I think that they are), but finding just the right place, and then figuring out how to interpret what is seen, certainly is not easy. JDA

          • JDA, I agree. But you’re assuming I was talking about that part of pulling off.

            I was still on the designing of the poem clues by f.

          • PoisenIvy: “Example, I have a spot along with a time and date. One of the previous clues says something in the effect that I take as getting a 7′ stick. With that stick standing, along with date and time, a shadow is created, making a right triangle.”

            This is highly problematic, as having a true “date” and “time”, also must include the “year”, as the earth wobbles, and is slowing down in rotation not only in relation to it’s own tilt, but the change in path it takes around the sun… so that in 1000 years, that 7 ft stick shadow will no longer point to a spot that it pointed to 1000 years before, which is actually not the ‘same’ time frame as before, as the earth would also be in a fully different position. long story short, time is relative to a reference… not only in time, but in position. (not that we would care, because a 7ft stick would not create more than a “several steps” shadow before it wondered so far and blurred so much that it would be a guess to know where it was pointing to anyway. (and that is assuming one can get the stick to be exactly vertical, or some other predetermined angle) not that the ground on which it lay wouldn’t have moved some unrecoverable distance)

            We certainly wouldn’t need that stick as we would be within several steps anyway and apparently close enough that ff couldn’t imagine us NOT finding the chest. (the 12′ comment) both comments about distance suggesting within “several steps” is what we need.. rather than a small pointing device for precision, maybe a very wide “stick/rock”.. then the changes in the earth wouldn’t matter much at all,

            while Indiana Jones movie is a great movie, the shaft of light would actually point to a different building… and for a more substantial reality check, the shafts built into the pyramids pointing to stars, those no longer point to the same stars.

        • I am still not convinced a shadow has anything to do with it! IMO…..
          if he FF had answered a question of which way the blaze is facing and his comment was “something” to the effect of he didn’t take a bearing . So I can’t see how a shadow if any shadow at all would point in any direction if FF didn’t take a bearing off of the blaze I think a shadow is a rabbit hole and a very deep one …Again in my humble opinion

          • Travis;

            Sorry, your statement makes no sense. You are implying (or stating) “a shadow if any shadow at all would point in any direction” Of course, a shadow points in a direction. Look at a sundial, or the shadow off of the corner of your house – it points in a direction doesn’t it? Sure, it changes direction as the earth rotates, but isn’t that what Forrest also said, something to the effect that it doesn’t point N,S,E or W? Of course not, it is always moving.
            Just sayin – JDA

          • two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead

            We should have buried Skippy standing up.

            Skip “p” leaves you with “Y”.

            Stand Skippy up (Y), one standing up, (alive), one on the ground dead, (shadow).
            Just a thought on the top of my head.

            He did say it is not facing any of those directions, (N,S,E,W). Still have NE,NW,SE,SW. The blaze can still be pointing in one of these directions. I’m not in the camp that the shadow goes from the blaze, but possible.

          • “SHADOWS ARE FOOLISH”

            Don’t over complicate… don’t force your solve …

            Having the shadow theory I think it’s a waste of time.

            X marks the spot ask Thunderose!
            She said it herself.

          • Travis – an interesting set of “Facts” you posted – since I saw nothing that said it was your opinion – just sayin’ – JDA

          • Omg JDA LOOK BACK HOW MANY TIMES I SAID “IN MY HUMBLE OPINIONS”

            Hey Juan’s down that hole it’s your time and money. I won’t waste any more time on this foolish subject. IMO..

      • I never liked that answer from f. He said (paraphrased) that one who
        finds the blaze can find the treasure. Too vague and unhelpful a claim,
        as far as I’m concerned. But good luck to us all. All IMO.

    • Whenever the threads get bungled up with which quote is which and who said what when… I refer back to this piece of advice… “All of this cyberspace verbiage is conspicuous by the absence of talk about where warm waters halt.”

      I say this this because the constant disconnect about the [blaze] and the details in regards to it makes me believe that a searcher will absolutely know these things if their deciphering/figuring/learning of the preceding clues are correct. If no one is going to *stumble* upon/over the treasure… that points to the idea of moving to [the place/spot] with more than hope and a wish. The word confidence comes to mind…or nothing about it will be accidental/happenstance.

      The three year old girl comment is a rather broad descriptor… but leaves the door open to plenty of speculation for sure.

      • Sorry Dal.
        My comment from Fenn is a comment he posted on [Stephan Returns To the Blaze. It was on Sept. 26 2012]
        He goes on to say…”Several months ago some folks correctly mentioned the first two clues to me in an email…” Say what ? This whole comment from Fenn is a doozy from my standpoint…

        I like showing the reference this way so that folks need to work a bit to get to it… who knows what else might pop up while getting to it. There’s some good reading… if one wants to do the leg work.

      • Ken ~’I say this this because the constant disconnect about the [blaze]…’

        I get what you’re saying overall in your post.
        But do we really know if there is a different place for the chest and for the blaze?
        Sure IF we have everything deciphered properly, then we should know. Kinda an obvious thing, right?

        So, while the little girl comment is a broad comment… speculation of this comment and others should be thought of… imo.
        This is not unlike many comments that we get, in bits n pieces, over the years.
        How about the comment; And I can tell you an 80-year-old man is not going to make a trip into a canyon, then come up and go down again.
        When the question was related to; who else knows.

        Does that comment have anything to do with the first “two” clues-?- or a simple broad statement?

        Speculation of a single comment -ATF, aft- is a disconnected, imo.
        But attempting to resolve a possible thought process for the poem, could involve a few, if not many, of those comments [ even if they weren’t stated back to back ]

        Why is everyone stumped at clues 3 4?
        Why can’t Little Indy [ or anyone on else ] can not get closer than the first two clues [ with the tools suggested in the Q&A] ?
        Why is there a physical present needed after the first few clues?
        Why did fenn follow his own created clue to a place he knows so well he didn’t need a map to write about it?…….. some of those comments don’t seem related to the other. right?

        Individually, disconnected from other comments, they don’t seem too important, or so open-ended, guessing is all we have to go on.
        Put them ‘together’ and we have something to *think* about.
        Our problem is; we get those comments spread out over a span of time… and we might lose the connection of them or about them… when other comments pop up to dissect as well.

        Do we know if the chest is not at the spot of the blaze?
        Do we know if the blaze is not at WWsH [ be whatever their deciphered clue reference truly is ].

        I mean, with four clues that might have been solve…almost 1/2 the clues…. why is it, that we still are not sure or have a good notion of, having solved anything? That alone says a lot…

        I personally don’t think most of statement, comments, Q&A’s ATF’s-aft are that far apart or disconnected from each other. They should hold some truth to each other, overall… no matter why or when the statements [ATF-aft] where made.

        • I’ll point out the comment from Fenn to *Outa Here* over on MW… May 4, 2017
          “Stop arm chairing that thing to death and get out in the trees where the box is, but before you go, look at the poem as if it were a map, because it is, and like any other map, it will show you where to go if you follow it’s directions.”

          First… I found this extremely comical with all of the commas… and seemingly appropriate given the high traffic comments at the time about punctuation. One poster even breaking it down[the poem] classroom style[kinda sorta]. And then later telling us he removed all of the commas after the fact on a subsequent SB or sumpin.

          Back to the quote… Before you go, see the map[the clues in the poem] and then get out there and follow the directions from the map[the deciphered clues]. From there it is speculation and a personal choice as to how far the [map/poem] takes you. I do not believe it is a botg solve…especially given the other available ATF … at all. Sure… I believe that the searcher needs to physically find the {blaze} and then complete the task. Call me crazy… or whatever floats your boat… but I think the information is in the poem to plan the job…. and then go act it out. A correct solve gets a searcher within several steps of the target.

          • KEN , HI , i`m John [ JPE ] on this blog , i just want to say that i too believe that a searcher can get very close to chest with correct solve { at home with poem , map , ttotc , and GE } maybe within inches .

          • Hi JPE…John. There are a few quotes worth tracking down that I think supports the idea that all of the clues can be deciphered without going botg. Like I also said above… I believe that the clues get a searcher to the blaze… after that the distance to the treasure will be obvious according to Fenn. Happy hunting to you… and I think there are many inches involved.

          • Ken,
            [ in part ]
            ~ ” Rocking chair ideas can lead one to the first few clues, but a physical presence is needed to complete the solve. Google Earth cannot help with the last clue. ” {MWs}

            How can a rocking chair theory, as you said; * that I think supports the idea that all of the clues can be deciphered without going botg.*
            When fenn said; a physical presence is need after a *the first* few clue. I can’t fathom a few clues to be, what, 8 clues?

            I think taking the idea that GE can’t help with the last clue, is a bit of a stretch, to think all other clues can be deciphered at home as well.
            Even the Q&A [ located on this blog Italy’s Q&A ] asking about how many can be solved at home was answered theoretically… all of them, “but not in practice”

            I had thought the same as you just stated… lol… still hope it might be true [it would make my job a lot easier] But it’s just a hope.
            Fenn followed his own created clues to complete the poem [original quote can be found on {MW}]… tells us; after the first few clues a physical presents is needed.

            Even I can’t dissect and/or dance around that.. no matter how I try.

            ***Following guide lines***… the above comment is to be considered fake news until prove not fake by a supreme court constitutional ruling… or the chest is located.
            Where’s Ronald Regan when ya really need him?

          • Hi Seeker: you focus on the “but not in practice” portion of Forrest’s answer while I focus on the “All of them in theory” portion. Ask yourself how both can be true? Seems to me there is only one way: that all of the clues can be solved from home BUT (somewhat obviously) you need to physically be there to carry out that solution and retrieve the treasure.

            If Forrest says solving all the clues is *theoretically* possible while BITC (butt in the chair), then the real question is how could that possibly be true IF you needed to be physically present to solve one or more clues? The two are incompatible.

          • Seeker,

            To answer the quote you posted, ” Rocking chair ideas can lead one to the first few clues, but a physical presence is needed to complete the solve. Google Earth cannot help with the last clue. ” {MWs}

            “but a physical presence is needed” in that quote may be just to retrieve the chest. Where do you draw the line of “the first few clues” in that quote? He could of meant the first 8 clues, couldn’t he?

          • The Lure interview 5/18/2017
            “You’re going to have to figure out the clues. Go to the first clue, and then the clues are consecutive after that. If you can decipher the clues, you’re gonna find that treasure chest.”

            Sounds pretty simple… doesn’t it? He said rocking chair… I’m sitting in my office chair and it looks different from here.

            Seriously though, I have about ten other quotes and quips lined up that take it beyond what you are saying. Is it wishful thinking? Perhaps… but right now it feels almost sane. I keep going back to his [cyberspace verbiage] 2012 comment and tying subsequent tidbits together. It seems apparent that early searchers flew off almost immediately to the correct general area[first two clues] but did not have the full grasp of what those clues really meant as they were intended. Why is that? I think their idea was 180 degrees out of sync and went completely off track. Later, by a couple of years, Fenn seems to indicate someone [maybe] went the correct direction but they didn’t know it[not sure] and then the line goes dead in that regard. No progress that he has been willing to share. Heck… Fenn’s [Let’s coin a new phrase] comment even seems to give a thumbs up to being able to get as far as the blaze and even uses the word *solve*. I’m patient… maybe even a potential patient, so I am willing to keep dissecting and projecting every scrap I can dig up.

          • 19)How will I know if I have the clues right before my family and me drives out to get the treasure?

            You probably won’t

            http://mysteriouswritings.com/featured-questions-and-answers-on-the-thrill-of-the-chase-treasure-hunt-with-forrest-fenn-%ef%bb%bf/

            That does not sound like confidence. Also, does not sound like all the clues can be solved from home. And that’s with the assumption that the searcher knows what references are used to solve/identify the clues. How could a searcher leave in confidence with the thought that they do not know the answers to some of the clues? Especially if you need a prior clue to solve for a clue?
            All of the clues can be solved in theory. You can have your path to take you to the chest, along that path will be the clues, easily referenced from the poem, but,
            In practice, NO. He has not furnished some of the answers to some of the clues. So, if you are trying to solve clues, in practice, you have no chance. The answers are just not there. They will require BotG, where from the path you are taking, the (observed clues) will be seen. There is nothing that says what the blaze is, or what it looks like, so how could you solve it when f has stated that he has not given the answer to it in a subtle way? Aimlessly walk around and find it?

            It is a stronger case to think that not all the clues can be solved from home. If you are into needing to solve every clue, then you are in for a tough battle. To get one clue wrong, or mess up on what you actually think is a clue, then the solve is nothing. And, to know that you won’t know the answers to some of the clues, well, then you have nothing, IMO.

          • p ivy… that Q from Fenn does not deter me one bit. It does indicate in a powerful way that the odds are pretty steep though. Fenn can feel very confident saying that given the success rate up to the point of that particular answer.

            I’m ever the optimist and not inclined to be convinced by a couple of errant comments. I think there are more than a few that lean in the opposite direction from those. Good hearing from you c.

          • Zap, a theory can be defined as a ideal or hypothetical set of facts. Knowing that, along with the final clue quote, we could safely say one ore more clues need to be solved on site.

          • Hi Aaron: the way I view “All of them, in theory” is that to make that statement it must be theoretically possible to solve all 9 clues. Or put another way, it is not impossible that a searcher could solve all 9 clues from home. That in itself is helpful information because it eliminates a lot of possibilities for the final clue. It means the final clue (or even clues, as you suggest) must be of a type that a searcher could correctly guess (if not outright solve). But if the solution requires facts that are ONLY obtainable on site, then the armchair searcher is out of luck, and therefore theoretically solving all the clues is impossible.

            Ultimately, I think searchers should ask themselves why Forrest didn’t simply answer “Most of them, but not all.” Why leave the door open to the possibility that all 9 could be solved if they can’t be? Also, why at no time does he say you must be physically present to solve the final clue(s)? Instead he says “a physical presence is needed to complete the solve.”

            If the treasure is obscured by something (e.g. in the fashion of the hidden pottery bowl at San Lazaro Pueblo), then clearly one would need to be present to carry out the act of clearing that obscuration — something that can’t be done while sitting in your rocking chair. But that doesn’t preclude figuring out in advance that, say, the ninth clue will involve locating a specific object (too small to be seen on GE) whose nature you’ve figured out as a consequence of solving the poem. In that particular case, would you say you’ve “solved” the ninth clue because you know what you’re looking for, and you know approximately where you’ll find it?

          • That is the way I see it Zaphod. ‘Complete the solve’ refers to the chest recovery from its hidden location. That could be an instruction and not necessarily a clue.

          • How much progress can be made by someone just thinking and searching the Internet from home? (Anot–her way of saying this: How many clues can only be decoded in situ?) 
            FF: All of them, in theory, but not likely in practice. A searcher must go to the site to find the treasure.

            Situ means in the original, natural place. If you look at the question; it involves internet search [ I guess we can call that part GE ] And… ” How many clues can only be decoded in situ? ” — being in an natural place.

            The question left out clues that don’t have a place. It didn’t allow for clues to be directions, instructions etc.

            Jump back to the first part of the question; It asked how much *progress can be made at home*… nothing about clues… just the process.

            IMO. fenn answer the question backwards. *In theory, all of them*… to be situ [ place], or clues that actually have physical references.

            *But not in practice*… how much can be done at home. A searcher must go to the site.

            The main question that I don’t recall seeing or as been asked… are all the clues references physical places?

          • When I critique a solve, others or my own, I just get the poem and put it in front of me. I then use just the poem to see if a searcher is using the poem for a solve. The second I have to look something up, get a map to see where I’m at, or whatever, that is when you get away from the poem and IMO, is no good for a solve. I look for the searcher using the poem, and the poem only, to find a place, the “x” on a map. I don’t look for clues or how they solve clues or decipher them, just how they solve the poem. We could debate back and forth all day long, whether you can solve all clues or not, does not matter, it’s the solve of the entire poem that is what we are suppose to be doing. We obviously can be confident when we leave our house, so whether we know all the clues or not, in solving the poem, we will find the chest. When it is said that we will follow the clues, that should be an obvious because of the path we will take. He could not give the answer to wwwh, but we could figure a start spot. Is that how to solve the first clue, maybe. Whatever the case, we have 24 lines that we must solve in order to have a chance to find clues. All the outside info is great, but only once you have solved the poem. And all you need is the poem. It just seems to me that there is not enough room in the poem to explain away all the clues, and hints. Nothing in the poem blurts out the answers, so it is obvious that the solve is hidden in the poem in a subtle way. That means that there is an underlining solve, we all know this. It very well may be that the underlining solve gets you to a place but none of that solve uses clues.
            If you take everything away that has been said, and only have the poem, would you worry about trying to solve clues or would you try to find that subtle solve within the poem?
            When you police your solve, just put the poem and the poem in front of you and go thru your solve. If you have to get any other information while you go down the poem, maps, dictionaries, etc… then it is not a good solve, period. If you can explain your solve with just the poem, and only the poem, then you are looking at a possible solve. After you are done, then you can fine tune with ATF’s and maps to confirm.
            whether you can solve all the clues from home or not is irrelevant. The only thing that needs to be done is to find a way to solve the poem. At the core, the poem is what needs to be followed precisely, the clues will present themselves if you follow the poem.

  5. All-
    You are getting lax while using quotes …
    When you quote Forrest…don’t just put his words down…also reference the quote…that is, put a link to its source so that other’s can look it up and read or listen to it themselves in situ and so that its accuracy can be easily checked.

    such as with JDA’s comment above-
    Mr. Fenn: How far is the chest located from the blaze? ~ casey
    Casey, I did not take the measurement, but logic tells me that if you don’t know where the blaze is it really doesn’t matter. If you can find the blaze though, the answer to your question will be obvious. f
    http://mysteriouswritings.com/featured-question-and-weekly-words-from-forrest-blaze-measurement/

    Always add the link or give the best directions you can so readers can find the quote…

    • Good point Dal. I noticed but since I have TS I can usually find them.
      No reply buttons to some post.
      Mark. You bring up good
      Thoughts about the child. I have always been bothered by that. Why only a little girl and not a child. And troubles because maybe you don’t walk up to the TC literally or not. Or your a girl.
      I find this to be of something helpful but I can’t make of it. Maybe FF just thought of a little girl when he stated
      Any good ideas please post.
      Only commenting on what I read above.
      GH

  6. For myself who can’t even spell babe ruth correctly, OOPS. The first 2 clues can use a
    few different things. Not sure what FF was using. The next five are specific. Ending at
    the blaze. How to use it and get past it in the poem makes no sense. It is a block.
    Then you are given the solve. After you get past the blaze. imagination is better than
    knowledge. But the point and purpose is a Grand scale thing. From what I believe. IMO.
    Did the TTOTC help me. Yes and No. use intuition . looking back at that book.
    one piece of literature not in the book. it’s nothing and everything at the same time. one thing stated several times and a word that means nothing. TFTW one direct hit I think he may regret saying not sure. Possibly more. . I could so easily be wrong it is easy to
    fit the poem to many places in all four states. That’s why I am leaving being wrong open
    for myself. There are really good ideas out there too.
    Stay safe in the mountains.

    • I forgot, I believe one of the biddies is in the poem. It can’t be solved without her. All just in my opinion. I am sure I forgot something else too.
      Well that’s about it for me. Like it could help or something.
      I like the web site what can I say. IMO..
      Stay safe..

  7. in my opinion I believe the Blaze is a mountain in Montana and the marvelous gaze is Mirror Lake that you can see from the top of Blaze Mountain

  8. My favorite “blaze” is a large slab of petrified wood in a location that seems to fit all of the clues. It’s maybe 3 feet by 3 feet by two feet, and it’s blazing bright colors stand out in the forest quite dramatically. It’s just one thing. It doesn’t “face” any direction per se. It’s possible to move it, but due to its weight, I wouldn’t suggest trying. There’s a slope below it with lots of little hidey holes. Be brave, not petrified, and in the “wood,” not “woods.” There’s also no chest there.

  9. I believe that when the searcher is walking into the WOOD from NPFTM that THE END IS EVER DRAWING NIGH means to be looking to the left for the BLAZE , when you see the BLAZE , you go toward it [ left ] TBNPUYC because you turned before you got to the creek and also when you turn left you just stepped into HL and WH . then LOOK QUICKLY DOWN as you start your walk to the BLAZE . to get to the BLAZE you will walk right over the chest . not just an opinion but my belief …..

  10. poisenivy… It seems you are talking in circles about solving the poem. Fenn has told us that all of the information is in the poem for all to see. He has also stressed that good research materials are TTOTC, GE and/or a good map. We’ve also learned that he likes to play with words and even looks up their meanings. Why would we not utilize any of the above mentioned tools if we have been told to do so?

    I do agree that the ATF are speculative and need to be used with an open mind… and probably best only after getting a good grip on a potential solve.

    Here’s a good Fenn comment for Seeker from MW Q’s with Forrest 6/25/2014;
    Hi, Did the same 9 clues exist when you were a kid and to your estimation will they still exist in 100 years and 1000 years? Thanks~ Ron
    “Thanks Ron, thoughtful questions. The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might still exist in 100 years…f” This quote seems to validate the existence of [places] in reference to the clues… at least more than two… and also at least one of that number did not.

    • Place; a particular position or point in space.
      ;holding a specified position in a sequence
      Place { geography } A place’s absolute location is defined with latitude and longitude lines.
      Just as small recap: “places” Ken.
      Of course there are some clues that reference places.
      However, The Q&A doesn’t validate all clues are of places… Like you said; at least more than two.
      I agree but maybe not all.

      But the position of a clue as a place can be of a relatively small local. I mean, geography is not all about large areas. A place in geography, has it’s position as Lat. n Long., yet still be the size of a mountain’s – peak [ for reference of the entire mountain ] or a place for a tree somewhere on said mountain.
      A valley can be of it’s own place, and have many places of different references within… right? My main point is; Do we need to go to them all-?-regardless of how many there are?

      The other point I try to make is; Not all clues have to be places.
      Example; a particular position or point in space; situation
      ~”the monastery was a peaceful place”

      In the above dictionary example the idea of a peaceful place can be a monastery. Yet, it’s about any monastery, and not any particular one /or *it’s geographical location*.

      “From there” indicates a “place” already known of {hoB} It’s no place for the meek, can be of a situation… not unlike the monastery being a peaceful situation.

      Situation; *a set of circumstances in which one finds oneself* …
      :the location and surroundings of a place.
      “the situation of the town is pleasant”

      I find it very interesting ya’ll call fenn a wordsmith, he tells us every word was deliberate, tells us it took a decade and a half to get the poem just as he wanted, yet only think the wording as simplistic. Are we not supposed to analyze and think-?- about the “poem” [it’s words and meaning of those words.]

      SF podcast [ 11 minutes in ] “it’s not a matter of trying, it’s a matter of thinking… Sure, I mean people figured the first couple of clues and unfortunately walked passed the treasure chest”
      What is it folks are not thinking about??? I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say, many try to simplify the clue by only ‘hoping’ all clues ‘must’ be of Physical Different Places, and not the situation of a Place [examples above].
      I think we are creating an illusion of what we read the poem as vs, a possible intended reading of the poem.
      It’s not what I say.. it’s what you think I said, line of thinking.

      “The blueprint is challenging so the treasure may be located by the one who can best adjust. To illustrate my point go to YouTube – Smarter Every Day. f “… {MWs}

      A Blueprint is not directions in the simplest term [a course along which someone or something moves].
      A blueprint is of instructions to build from. [detailed information telling how something should be done.. a guide]

      Now add in “planning and observation” as we are told to do.

      Q~ Forrest, you talk about the clues being difficult to solve (opposite being easy) yet that the solutions are simple (opposite being complex). Yet when I read the stories of other searchers, I often think that their solutions to the clues tend to be either easy solutions or made out to be very complex and over-thought. Are there any suggestions you would give in approaching the clues and solving them? ~Craig
      A ~ Craig, there is no substitute for thinking and planning and observing and looking at maps, unless it’s the desire to keep it simple.f

      • I was very general about the number of [places] because I believe that is up to the individual to decide. I’ll also add that it makes sense that the chosen definition of {place] should perhaps be consistent throughout.

        Here are a few other synonyms for place; spot, location, zone, area, position, locale, point and a whole host of others. If we are trying to nail down the starting point… which is obviously a particular place and we ultimately are working to find the special spot[ another place]… that equates to two places. I cannot reconcile that the actual starty place ends up being the hidey place… the 500 and 200 foot comments would then be in violation of keeping the ATF true to each other.

        I’m not advocating that each clue is an actual place as some of the clues seem to be directional/situational. Plotting out the clues that are places on a map from the nailed down start place seems like the most advantageous method. This would produce the correct path to the final resting place.

        As far as your simplistic comment and Fenn being a wordsmith… I think it boils down to the fact that Fenn has been very clever throughout the entire process… a well thought out plan. The cryptic poem presented in simple book sold only in Santa Fe and kick started by limited media exposure with a continued flood of comments and interviews for 9 plus years. The situation has become exasperated by his continuous answers to mediocre questions[some have been excellent] and a host of other side shows created by individuals. It becomes more difficult to shade all of that out and keep the facts in order.

        Blueprint can be defined from a few different perspectives. I keep aligned with the idea that the poem is a map[ like fenn has said], and that we need to follow its directions[the poem/map]… directions; instructions that tell how to go to a place.

          • Well Zap… apparently it was invalid and weak… as you can see by the post that [followed] ! That is just how I see things

          • Jake: when I have my next complete end-to-end solution. I’m almost there, but unfortunately this isn’t horseshoes. Well wait … I suppose it sort of is… 😉

          • That grenade is just one state over, with a long but indeterminate fuse… 😉

          • I hope you’re not giving up on SW Montana.
            I think I got ya. Fuse in WY, bomb in MT.

        • I’ll agree,
          This was a 5* statement by ken that I agree with including the “but before you go” statement.
          Where did that piece of straw between your teeth go?

      • Ken ~’I cannot reconcile that the actual starty place ends up being the hidey place… the 500 and 200 foot comments would then be in violation of keeping the ATF true to each other.’

        Actually it can. It’s called a place{s} within a place, idea.
        We don’t know the size of WWsH enough to pin point it to be a very small location.

        Where you have point along a path idea as, different locations, I have places within the location of WWsH.

        That thought alone allows searcher to pass by remaining clues and the chest when leaving the poem; to mean both; physically leaving WWsH and leaving the idea of not following the instructions.

        We tend to call clues land features. I think that is fair. I also think that a land features can be of a larger land feature… contiguous to each other.
        The main point is for the reason WWsH needs to be… without it we have nothing, right? It a point to point theory any point [ if can be solved on it’s own ] can be a place to start.
        That’s my other point; can we actually solve later clues without WWsH?
        Not unlike the reverse engineering question… it implies if you * know * hoB why be concerned about WWsH? The answer wasn’t about can we solve hoB, the answer was about going back to WWsH [ reverse engineering ] … well, sure you can *IF* we *know* what hoB is.

        The same can be said for; retrieving the chest in any weather… it sure seems like we can by fenn’s comment… but only *IF* we know *exactly* where it is, right? The comment never posed the idea of following the clues in any weather.

        We also have the idea of; an 80 year old is not going down and up a canyon and down again. IMO, this is where the searchers [ before and as of date ] are stumped, because, of a simple misinterpretation of “take it in” the canyon down. They left WWsH and the places the clues are at…
        Only in the ides of stomping point to point, as searcher could travel any X amount of feet and miles And still get 200′ from the chest. The problem is; *IF* and that is a big IF, a searcher can discover a later clue and be correct {situ}… there is no need for WWsH to be “The” clue to nail down or stay home.

        So it all falls down to the idea of, why-?- a physically presents is needed after solving the first few clues?
        I mean, IF it is possible to locate hoB [situ]… clue one is not at all necessary to have, as a place to start out at. LOL if that can be accomplished, telling all we need the first clue nailed down or stay home, have nothing, don’t have anything, can not be a true statement to the idea *all* the clues are found on a map.

        Even the Little Indy comment implies no one can not get closer than the first two clues [with the poem and a map of the RMs’] I mean, folks have been on site and indicated the first two clues. But here is where it all seems to fall apart.
        Sure, we don’t know exactly what was relayed to fenn from this point.. but we have a very good guess to what they might have done if they did the same stomping process we all chat about on almost every blog.

        This will be my last post. To be honest… there is no chatter about possibilities and WhatIF… only the names of places are changed, over and over and over again and all with the same results.
        That is a serious lack of adjustment in my book. I have nothing I can add to those discussions. I’m looking to read the poem as the author might intended… playing hide and seek with names of places doesn’t seem to be the correct [ 9 years running ] method.

        • but before you go, look at the poem as if it were a map, because it is, and like any other map, it will show you where to go…

          • I hope Seeker will take your advice, ken. I enjoy reading what he offers for discussion.

        • Seeker;

          You say, “This will be my last post.” I certainly hope not. We have not always agreed, but you have kept us thinking. If, in fact, this is your last post, I will miss your presence and interesting thought processes very much.
          JDA

        • Seeker – please don’t blow out your candle and leave us in the dark. Everything you say is “food for thought.” Some people just prefer to eat something different.

          Now if we were talking CHOCOLATE, I think we all would agree, don’t you?

          • Come on Seeker.
            You can’t leave. Maybe cut back a little, but not for good. We would all miss you too much!

          • Every word minus a “Scant” in the poem has meaning. No his words don’t mean what they say. Much deeper! His words are like Mikes Tea. Harder than they appear! Not for face value.

        • Hey Seeker, I get ya man. Sometimes you need to just let go of the reins and see where the horse takes you. Many years ago I read “Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry into Values ” by Robert Pirsig. I was at first enthralled with the content and then horrified when Robert described what his incredibly deep and focused thought on “values” actually did to him.

        • come on seeker togather we started this trip and togather right or wrong we need to finish it togather – you have a lot of searchers that want you to stay

        • Seeker, it may be your last post . . . until you post again. Big whoop. Still, y’all probably deserve a long vacation from posting here (as do many other people). I think I want to take a long break myself, and probably soon will. Good luck to everyone. As always, IMO.

        • Seeker,

          As you are one of the few whose posts I always read you will be missed. Catch you on the FlIp Side brother.

          Seannm

        • Hi Seeker,
          I don’t understand the reason why you don’t want to participate in blog discussions anymore. I’m here only several months but still think that this blog is very informative and useful for both old and new searchers. You, JDA, Dal and other avid searchers in your posts share your experience and mistakes with other searchers. They ask you questions or share their ideas and you answer/discuss them.
          Nobody knows when and where TC will be found (well, Forrest knows only where) but the chase itself is very good motivation just for visiting so many beautiful places in Rockies. One my solution was in Colorado and it was perfect out-of-trails adventure for me and my kids. Still don’t have any solution for New Mexico but most likely will think about and get some in nearest future.
          So, I join to people who will miss you and your posts on this blog.

        • You may want to let go, but I don’t think your sub-conscious will let you do it. You’ve been in this too deep, too long & have created synaptic patterns. When you least expect it, you will suddenly have some really new insight … and we’ll be here waiting to hear it. Have a good rest… see you in again in 2020.

        • Seeker—
          I don’t post a whole lot. But I’d be sorry to see you go. Your thinking is very intuitive. If you don’t post I hope you keep in the Chase just the same. All the best!

        • Seeker,
          It has been may moons since I last posted. Today, I am 35,000 feet above those surly bonds of earth enroute to be with my brother who did over 15 BOTG’s in Montana. It wasn’t a lack of motivation but his Parkinson’s has not kicked in and his BOTG days are gone. He is surer it is in Montana, though, not far from where FF’s mom passed away. Common seeker, it’s in your blood. We are all counting on you. P.S. JDA, good to see you’re still cookin’

  11. Lets just think about this. Is anyone actually listening to anything. Most of all myself guilty as all. Mr. Fenn. Speaks in interviews answers questions on QA why would he try so hard for 9 years to help people solve it. Maybe that’s just who he is. Why does he owe us anything. Even with all the complaints ,disagreement and accusations he stayed with his Chase.
    He removed himself from QA why. Nobody home out there. Just searchers tripping over there own two feet. Myself for sure.
    Maybe searchers like Seeker have come to be as the poem says tired and weak.
    I’ve asked myself several times if I solve it am I deserving of it. No more then anyone else.
    Sorry to see those with such insite and a passion to help others leave the site but understandable. I to am ready for a break.
    Even though I have not posted often and had little information to offer. I have enjoyed the information posted and some of the folks here, my apologies to Dal for not following the rules.
    If there is a finder out there I hope they are someone like Mr. Fenn. Shoes that no one else could wear. The Blaze plate of beans campfire and a bottle of grapette and some old cowboy stories. That’s my guess.

    Good hunting to you all.
    GH

  12. I’m guessing the treasure chest sits 242 feet from a paved road. The blaze is back to back C’s which form a hooked X or perhaps BB for bubba.. All those “wells” in TTOTC indicate black gold, texas tea oil wells. I’m of the opinion Forrest was great at knowing what to invest in, including oil & gas, and real estate. Say’s he loved playing monopoly (not the board game).

  13. All,

    If the blaze doesn’t face any particular direction maybe we ought to be asking: must we searchers be facing a particular direction form which we are to look quickly down from it?

    Seannm

  14. as you are walking toward the blaze, and you are going north, the flames will be going toward you. my blaze is 4 miles long and its 5 miles wide , where am I going to stop and look quickly down if the place is on flat ground, that’s my blaze out of a whole bunch

    • I like it Frank. In one of my solves the blaze could only be seen from above, and it looks like lightning, and is a mile or two long.

      • thanks Sparrow – well at least you have the right idea of what the blaze should look like. in my opinion – so good luck on the chase

  15. My wife and I will be heading to the Rockies in September. I wanted to share how the “Blaze” and “Look quickly down” relates to this particular solve.

    – We will be walking parallel to a creek going up in elevation. From Google maps I can see that it is probably possible to do this. You never know until you have BOTG.
    – As we reach a certain point we will go in a clockwise direction (“If you’ve been wise”) toward the creek and on top of a small out-cropping of rocks. It doesn’t look very large or dangerous on Google maps but we won’t know until we get there. This out-cropping isn’t right at the creek edge but not too far away.
    – We hope that as we stand on the out-cropping and look down roughly toward the direction we came we will see a “Blaze” maybe no more that 12-15 feet away. We won’t know what that “Blaze” might be until we see it but I believe if it is there it will be obvious.
    – We will look under the out-cropping hoping to find a large enough area for maybe a person to fit and the treasure. “Look quickly down” meaning the treasure will be below our feet as we stand on the out-cropping.

    Safe and happy searching everyone!

  16. If Seeker has truly “thrown in the towel” I will eat my hat, well, who is gonna second guess and analyze our failed solutions the way he has done? Zap? JDA? Ken..need I continue this line of thought…well

    OK we cant stop you Seek…but remember this, someone has been very close, within 200′ and left the poem, is that what you are doing, leaving the poem..Seek?

    Once you have memorized it, memorized it, IT sticks in your brain, just like a train, you Seek have been on the right track to cracking this IMHO because you use critical thought processes, and you are better than me at it, although I am Terrific, even in your farewell address above the idea that your leaving forevermore is one of desperation, and you have been so good at dissemination, you may leave now, but like the song says: “You can take the boy out of the country, but you can’t take the country out of the boy”…Good Luck, gonna miss ya!

    TT

  17. So the blaze is a single object, it might not face North, South, East or West. Maybe it sits at an angle, or faces up or down. If a searcher finds the blaze the location of the chest will be obvious. No one will find the chest by accident, well then, how prominent can the blaze be?

    • Hi James, you are asking very important question: how prominent can the blaze be? IMO but most likely that the blaze is not prominent at all. As JDA said it can be just flat stone lying on the ground (maybe it has some inscriptions on the surface).
      IMO but it’s too premature to build too many hypotheses about blaze color, size, positions etc. The search for the blaze will start only after you have solved the hoB. I think it’s most important riddle that was specially coded by Forrest with purpose to make it very difficult to crack. It looks like that nobody send Forrest correct solution what is the hoB (JDA will correct me if I’m not right here).
      Many searchers think that it’s useless to have BOTG if you don’t have a complete solution. Can’t completely agree with them – you should go there if you have solved WWWH, CD and the hoB.
      But even if you know correct hoB the chase for TC will take a lot of time.

      • Hi Andy;

        Not correcting you, just posting what I found:

        dalneitzel.com/2015/11/02/forrest-gets-mail-9/

        Are there signs that people are getting closer to solving your puzzle? How many clues have people solved now?
        Searchers have come within about 200 feet. Some may have solved the first four clues, but I am not certain.”f

        If someone has solved clue #4, they have probably solved hoB – “but I am not certain.” 🙂 JDA

        • This quote is a fun one to think about. He isn’t certain that people solved the first four clues, but he thinks they may have. It sounds like that searchers that told him where they were, were in the area of clue four but didn’t specify their solution of clue 4. To paraphrase, he has mentioned that nobody has told him the clues in the correct order. Is it possible that they wondered into the area of clue 4, and because they were not precise in the order they missed the exact spot? Let’s say clue four is PIBTHOB. If the hoB is a large area then it could be easy to get the put in spot wrong if they missed clue 3. Any thoughts?

          • Aaron, I agree with your version – it is obviously that searchers that were 200-500 feet from TC definitely entered “below the hoB” area. But as Forrest said “their arrival was an aberration and they were oblivious to its connection with the poem”. In simple words those searchers didn’t know that they were “below the hoB”.

          • Hi Aaron: I think it’s definitely WWWH. I believe lots of “John Snows” go there who know nothing about Forrest’s Thrill of the Chase.

          • That could be Zap. However, “significance of where they are” sounds important, and perhaps closer to the location of the chest. As far as clues go hoB is closer, of course unless you are one that believes WWWH is in the same location as hoB.

            I may nothing, but for now I’m taking the Brown.

          • Aaron, you mean like somebody was effectively at the below home of Brown location but didn’t know the answer to the clue?

          • Hi Aaron: evidently you are assuming HoB is clue #2, since the Forrest Gets Crazy Mail quote was: “Searchers continue to figure the first two clues and others arrive there and don’t understand the significance of where they are. f”

            For me, the first two clues are WWWH and “take it in the canyon down”. How do you reconcile “Put in below the home of Brown” as the second clue with his reply to Carol Off?

            Carol: “You say begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down. Not far, but too far to walk. Put in below the home of Brown. That seems like a couple of clues to me.”

            FF: “That sounds like three or four to me.”

            Sure, Forrest said “sounds like.” He didn’t declare, “Oh, that’s more than two, Carol.”
            But he could have just replied, “Could be.” Instead, he insinuated that there were more than a couple clues in that stanza.

            If you’ve only got two clues in stanza 2, then I suppose “the blaze” can’t possibly be your number 9 clue — that would be 7 clues in only 5 poem lines. I’m on board with the blaze not being the 9th clue, even though I’ve got four clues in the 2nd stanza.

          • Oz and Zap, I think that they could have been below the home of Brown but not at the right location. Here is the scenario: A searcher gets two clues right are at location below home of brown, or near it, and continues on past it. The significant area is hoB, yet they didn’t know they walked right through it. They tell FF where they were without yet failed to disclose the location they were in as the 4th clue. Therefore FF doesn’t know if they understood the fourth clue. They may have put in at the correct spot but didn’t understand the significance of where they were and went right past the remaining clues. That’s a guess of course but it’s the best I can come up with that fits the area I will search, and FF’s statements.

          • Oh and Zap, I should have said that if PIBHOB is next to CD, and NPFTM, then a searcher could figure out only 2 clues and still arrive at the below hoB area.

          • Aaron,
            Clearly the subject matter in Fenn’s Q&A is about the 1st 2 clues and not HOB.

            “Dear Emily
            Searchers continue to figure the first two clues and others arrive there and don’t understand the significance of where they are. f”

            Where the heck does he mention clue 3 or 4?

          • Jake, if I am right then solving the first two clues can get one to the hoB area. If one does not know the significance of the area then they won’t get it and they will go past the chest.

          • Ya, Sure, the 1st 2 clues can lead to HOB 3rd clue but I don’t see how Fenn’s Q&A leads to a conclusion that the quote he was talking about HOB as being more significant than the 1st clue.

            You are implying that HOB is more significant than WWWH against what Fenn has said about the 1st clue.

            I think all the clues are significant but obviously the last and 1st clues are most.

            Anyway, this post is about the blaze and I think it’s the most, by far significant clue and 2nd place goes to WWWH and the HOB is a trap with the cap B luring folks to think it’s the most important but may be the least.

            I know you’re getting itchy being so close to a BOTG and am jealous but we need to have our ducks in order.

          • Jake, I am seeing the use of the word significant a little differently. WWWH is the most important and is more significant in helping solve the poem. I think the significance of where they were could have to do with hoB because of why the location is special to him. Also possibly the reason it is capitalized. To him it stands out.

          • Forrest, What’s the minimum number of clues that we need to solve to find the treasure, assuming that we follow the clues in order? `Serge Teteblanche

            “Just one Serge, the last one.f”
            http://mysteriouswritings.com/questions-with-forrest-fenn-and-the-thrill-of-the-chase/

            This quote tells me the most significant clue is the last which i think is the blaze.
            We all know about all the other statements referring to WWWH the 1st clue and we know he said you would go right to it if you knew HOB while he was smiling in jest.

            Why would the treasure hunt be over if you’ve only solved 3 or 4 clues as in HOB?

            Big black hole that no one escapes from all because the cap B.

            My advice is not even think about HOB. Pick your WWWH and make sure it’s not in a canyon and then go into the canyon if there.
            Find something in your imagination when BOTG or just your mind that may relate to what Fenn was thinking about HOB but do not put all your focus in HOB as the end game. Remember there are a bunch of clues to figure out after Big Bad Brown and I don’t think they get easier as you go considering those that figured the 1st 2 clues didn’t get the chest.

          • I see I need to explain a bit more of this idea. While taking the canyon down we get to large area that is hoB. The remainder of the clues are in the below home of brown area including the blaze. The hoB area is significant because of what is there. The blaze is significant because it helps us find the chest. We can view HoB from the blaze and that is the reason he likes this spot. All of the clues still have to be followed.

      • Andy S said…The search for the blaze will start only after you have solved the hoB.

        I think it’s possible to have come across the blaze before hoB. One probably doesn’t realize that it’s the blaze till thinking more about it.

  18. Even though the poem says “if you’ve been wise and find the blaze” ect. Maybe the blaze is only a feature that happens to be at the chest location, but looking for a blaze is not the way to find the chest?

    • Hi James;

      Not to be picky, but this in quotation marks – “if you’ve been wise and find the blaze” The actual quote is, “If you’ve been wise and FOUND the blaze, …” I think that using the past tense of find = FOUND is important – JMO – JDA

      • Hi JDA, Yes, your right , my mistake. I’m still wondering though if the blaze can lead us to the chest, since it seems we encounter the the blaze in the second or third stanza?

      • I agree that the past tense is important. And being picky can be good.

        It looks to me like you have misquoted the poem by using all caps in your word “FOUND”.

        End of lecture. Good luck to all of us. As always, in my opinion.

        • OK you got me – but at least I got the words right. As you know, I put them in CAPS for emphasis – 🙂 Do the caps change the meaning? Probably not – 🙂 JDA

    • It’s more like by a hot shot than a long shot. Besides “wise” meaning to be smart, it can mean to go clockwise, or in the case of the poem, “to already have gone clockwise.” When you get to the blaze you will already have traveled or searched in a clockwise direction. IMO.

      But there is an even more important meaning or hint in the word “wise.” It actually supports and confirms what the blaze is. That’s why the poem says, “If you’ve been wise AND found the blaze…” The word “wise” is directly connected to the word “blaze.” IMO. I’ve seen no one making this connection on any of the blogs or elsewhere. Disclosing it would really give away too much.

      • Whether that is a true connection or not, I would say it has been made many times in the past. Wise related to blaze. That is why people have commented on owl-shaped rocks and the like. But there may not even be a connection at all. ie the poem does not say, and found the wise blaze. So it is just anyone’s guess at this point.

        • Agreed Yellowdog.

          And why do we have to be WISE to find something that stands out?

          It’s seems counterintuitive given Forrest’s definition of the blaze as “anything that stands out.”

          Just my opiñon.

      • Landhigh;

        I have to take an entirely different view. IMO it has nothing to do with going clockwise, although it COULD be.

        The line in the poem reads: “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze…” The sentence is expressed in the past tense for a reason. If, in the past, you had been wise and had spotted the blaze then – “Look quickly down…”

        You had to have been wise or smart enough to spot the blaze – possibly from a different time or place or both.

        Maybe, in the past, you had seen a picture in TToTC, or read a line in TToTC and you made a mental image of this thing or place in your mind. Now, today, you spot something on a mountainside that triggers that memory. You say, AH-HA, the thing that I am now looking at MUST be the blaze. Had you not seen that picture, or read that line, it might be possible that what you are now looking at would never have registered as a BLAZE – but now it does. Just a thought – JDA

        • “If you’ve been wise” is in the past tense because it could be something you’ve done or seen, independent of the chase, in the past. I didn’t recognize it until after I found and figured out what the blaze really was. If I were to say what I think the blaze is and relate it to being wise and “your quest to cease,” it would be a very positive clue for you and most everyone. That’s why I can’t say much more about it. But I will say that it’s not remotely close to the TC, IMO.

          The location of the blaze and adjoining clues fit perfectly for my solution.

          • Landhigh,

            If you are conjuring up that “wise” means something else, it’s not going to work. The poem says this in past tense, relating to if you have been wise (smart) enough to solve the previous clues, you would be at the blaze. It’s simple and straightforward.

            I would be more concerned solving the previous clues up to the blaze, rather than speculating. All IMO.

            Just Say’n

        • So JDA, your hypothesis is that we can recognize the blaze only if read TTOTC book?
          But why Forrest said that poem itself contains enough information to find TC? The book should only help to understand a few clues in the poem (not exact citation but something like this).
          Anyway, it will be better to read TTOTC several times and memorize it before doing BOTG.

          • In answer to your question: “So JDA, your hypothesis is that we can recognize the blaze only if read TTOTC book?” the answer is no. The first word in my example was “Maybe”. Maybe, being that it is possible that one could have seen a picture or read something in TToTC.

            It is just as possible that one had seen a blaze on a hillside or somewhere else yesterday, and today, realize that it could be the blaze. Let’s say that one sees a scree field left after an avalanche – yesterday. Today, one sees this same scree field, but from a different angle. Yesterday, it disclosed nothing, today it looks like an arrow. Yesterday it meant nothing, today it looks like an arrow blaze. Just food for thought.

            Thanks for the question and be careful about jumping to conclusions with only SOME of the facts – 🙂 – JDA

    • I guess no one has been wise enough to find the blaze. For those of you who live right your quest has already ceased, by a dominating force.

  19. CharlieM,

    I’ve been wise enough to have already found the previous clues before the blaze. Those clues are what led me to the blaze. There are two aspects to the blaze. One is the obviously visual aspect. The other is what lies beneath the visible part. Forrest couldn’t give the direction of the blaze because it changes directions at different positions. It is huge. And it is many miles away from the TC. Don’t get caught up in “your quest to cease.” Your search does not cease at that point. There are 5 more clues after “your quest to cease.” All IMO, of course.

    • Landhigh,

      I disagree with your thought that “the blaze changes direction at different positions”. The blaze doesn’t face north, east, west or south.

      Mr. Fenn,
      Which direction does the Blaze face? North, South, East or West? Curious. Foxy
      “I didn’t take a radial off of the blaze Foxy. I’m thinking it may not be any of those directions.” f April 29, 2016 at MW

      From that statement the blaze more than likely faces “up”. Now moving on to the number of clues after the blaze as you indicated is 5. I disagree there are only 2 clues after the blaze and there are 6 clues prior to the blaze. Those two clues are after, “your quest to cease.”, some folks stop looking after “cease” that however does not include me.

      Just Say’n

  20. Yes CharlieM. Find the blaze on Google Earth then solve the next several clues! You’re on the right track. I don’t know why so many people quit thinking at the blaze line, as if the second half of the poem doesn’t even exist.

    • Warlock, can you share one thing that has been shared after the quest to ceAse line that is compelling?

      I haven’t seen anything yet.

  21. You maybe correct Landhigh. However to my way of thinking, 5 more clues after “your quest to cease ” would put the total # of clues in the prom at more than 9; but I’m empty handed. The best of luck to you.

  22. What if the blaze were a wide gravel road that meandered all through the hills. What direction would it face? At any specific location the blaze may face a certain direction, like maybe east. At another location of the blaze it may face south. But all of this kind of blaze would face upwards, as you said, CharlieM.

    Here’s how I get 4 clues to and including the blaze:

    Clue # 1: Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down, not far but too far to walk. This gives you a starting location, a direction to go, and an approximate distance to the next clue.

    Clue # 2: Put in below the home of Brown. From there it’s no place for the meek. This gives you a location to continue from Clue # 1 and a direction to go.

    The end is ever drawing nigh. This is not a directional clue but a strong hint for what must be done later on in your search.

    Clue # 3: There’ll be no paddle up your creek. This clue tells you where to turn from the last clue and is an extended location clue.

    Just heavy loads and water high. This is not a clue per say, but it tells you what exists at a higher elevation further up your paddleless creek. You don’t need to go to these 2 locations. You must find the blaze before you would get to the heavy loads and water high. So you must have been wise and found the blaze first.

    Clue # 4: If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, look quickly down your quest to cease. So the blaze is the new location and you must follow down the blaze to a another location where …….

    Clues # 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9 take you to the immediate search area where BOTG are required.

    Remember, this is not someone else’s opinion.

  23. Landhigh….BRAVO

    Please alot me as a guest in the audience at the unveiling
    of Indulgence when it is secured at the Smithsonian.

    Bravo-Bravo-Bravo!

  24. Landhigh , I follow your thinking . As you can see from my previous post I have trouble spelling “Poem” , that says a lot.

  25. We think that the blaze could be an event in the past. More concrete: we think it’s the explosion of the boiler of a steam-locomotive because of a false indication (water high) of the water gauge glass on August 16, 1936 in the Jemez Mountains.

    See our arguments, our solution and our growing treasure-map: https://www.get-it-now.ch

    Have fun and be safe, Apfeltourer

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