Most of a Biscuit Basin Solve…

biscuit

August, 2019

By James Collier

 

This is going to be a pretty in-depth post. Like a lot of other searchers, I believed I knew the exact location and took off to Dinosaur National Monument area but came up empty handed. Upon return to my home in Rock Hill, SC, I decided to read TTOTC 5 more times and dissect every word. My approach this time was to read it slowly, to listen carefully, and make sure I had an imagination along with an open mind. To basically read it like a 10-15-year-old might. I went through every chapter and wrote down what I thought were clues. Although Fenn says the clues are “subtle,” I believe they ARE deliberate and direct you to within a 1.5 mile radius of the treasure. Come along on this journey through the book and try to see it like a child would. Open your eyes. Open your mind. Like John Lennon said…”Imagine.”  

Clues to why I think it is where I say it is:

Important Literature Chapter

  1. Multiple references to “little girl.”
  2. Reference to “mud” when referencing the bell tolls book
  3. “I didn’t spend much time in the children’s section or cooking or travel. Finally, I found the area I was looking for.” 
  4. When talking about the Kismet book, he makes sure to specify “the Pick-Pocket guy that is.” This comment should be obvious, so why put it? (I think he Is bringing notice to Pocket Basin (biggest mud pots in Yellowstone).

First Grade Chapter

  1. “My father always said she wouldn’t bite a hard biscuit if she was starving to death.” (First reference of many to biscuits)

No Place For Biddies Chapter

  1. References to “young.”
  2. Meek may mean crossing the street at the location…although I found a different reference which at this time I cannot share as it puts me in a very specific location. 

Jump Starting The Learning Curve Chapter

  1. Reference to “Cross the River.”
  2. Reference to Fire
  3. Looked corroded (Could be reference to Rusty Geyser across the street)
  4. Second reference to Biscuits when talking about his dad
  5. Iron, slide-down fire escape (Could be reference to Iron Springs Creek down from Fire Hole River). He also references in another chapter the Spring Creek. 
  6. He was proud to think of that idea and was the only one who knew about that trick. Old Iron thing marked the tail of his britches with a heavy brown color. (Another mention of Iron and brown as color).
  7. Everyone who was walking behind me knew what I done. People were beginning to notice me. (I think he is referencing he was on his way back from hiding the chest when people started to notice him as he walked back to his car; either the first time or second time).

Bessie And Me Chapter

  1. References to Milk multiple times which I think refers back to ingredients needed to make biscuits

My Spanish Toy Factory Chapter

  1. Unnecessary reference to being hungry and brown bag (Once again, referencing food and the color brown to food).
  2. Pie factory reference
  3. Pineapple pies

Me In The Middle Chapter

  1. Being in the middle again (I think this is a reference to being in the middle where those rivers meet.

Surviving Myself Chapter

  1. Kitchen reference with more baking
  2. Making own butter
  3. Another reference to biscuits
  4. When he is discussing what they wanted for dessert he states “I always said I wanted strawberry shortcake. His brother would want pineapple-upside-down cake. June, she “Liked something else.” He never referenced what exactly it is that she wanted. He then goes on to say she would trim the edges off of several slices of homemade bread and then cut the pieces into fourths. When they came BROWN out of the oven, she’d put butter and different homemade jams on each piece and serve them hot. They always made a big deal out of taking a bite and saying “umm, mom, great strawberry shortcake,” and “ummm, mom, great pineapple upside down cake.” I can still remember how much my dessert tasted JUST LIKE WHAT I ASKED FOR, AND IN MY FANTASY WAY IT WAS.” 

This whole paragraph informs me that the food his sister June wanted was biscuits. When referencing biscuits in clue #2&3 in this chapter they talked about butter and putting homemade jams on them. He then references it here again once they came out of the oven BROWN and they put the jams on each piece. He then states he can still remember how much dessert tasted just like what he asked for and in his fantasy was it was…because it wasn’t what him and his brother wanted, it was biscuits. 

Gypsy Magic Chapter

  1. Here he talks about how five or six girls of all ages built a large fire and danced around it. Keep this in mind for the later chapter talking about the painting he purchased
  2. Uses the word “firelight.”
  3. Use of the word “flames.”

In Love With Yellowstone Chapter

  1. Agate rocks along the rivers
  2. Rationed usage could be a reference to food again

Totem Café Caper Chapter

  1. Water and hiding behind a tree
  2. Brown gravy 
  3. Another food reference to pies
  4. Hid behind a pine tree 

My Brother Being Skippy Chapter

  1. Chinese Fire drill (I think this is the only clue in the chapter and just wants to drive home the fire reference).

The Long Ride Home Chapter

  1. “Greatest blossom” to me is a reference to a tree or flower blossoming as when he referenced the yellow and purple flowers. 

Looking For Lewis And Clark Chapter & Buffalo Cowboy chapters

  1. The only thing I took from these chapters was the nod to Yellowstone, as well as multiple references to food again. 

Stout Hearted Men Chapter

  1. Here I am taking the subtle hint to where my final spot is. Under a tree in the middle of a field has been my go-to final solve. “I slept under a tree with cows grazing all around. It was a threshold moment in my life, but I didn’t know it at the time.”

My War For Me Chapter

  1. A lot of talk about fire here which to me goes along with the gypsies

Blue Jeans And Hush Puppies Again

  1. Here I am taking the clue of him buying the French watercolor painting of the fairies dancing around a rock “if you believe I’d come to that.” I believe this is in reference to two clues. 
  1. Butterfly is a Flutterby (kids toy “flutterbye fairy”)
  2. Fairy creek/Little Firehole river 
  3. Believes a kid will find it as kids are the only ones who believe in fairies

There are other references in the final chapters but they are very small and would be a stretch. 

So now let me put it all together and add the information to the poem. 

Forest Fenn Poem & Clues

Begin It Where Warm Waters Halt 

Ojo Caliente Spring

Take It In the Canton Down,

Not far, but too far to walk

Put in below the home of Brown

 Biscuit Basin due to the multiple references of biscuits and them coming out of the oven “brown,” as biscuit basin from Ojo Caliente Springs is almost exactly 10 miles driving

a

From there it’s no place for the meek

The end is ever drawing nigh;

There’ll be no paddle up your creek, 

Just heavy loads and water high 

  • Park the car at the entrance to the unmarked trail on the right-hand side of the road. Enter there and walk/wade across the Iron Springs Creek towards where Fairy Falls Creek/Little Firehole River, Mystic Falls and Summit Lake all meet. Heavy loads (falls), Water High (Summit Lake would literally translate to high water). The double Omega symbol in the back of the book can translate to Summit

If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,

Look quickly down, your quest to cease,

But tarry scant with marvel gaze,

Just take the chest and go in peace.

  • Will not know for sure until you are walking with boots on the ground. But recently I found a really good match to Meek and tarry scant. At this time I am not willing to share this as I am trying to get to Yellowstone first week of September. 

So why is it that I must go and leave my trove for all to seek?

The answers I already know, I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.

  • He is now resting under a tree as he did when he was tired in the story

So hear me all and listen good, your effort will be worth the cold.

  • You have to wade through water to get to the final spot

If you are brave and in the wood, I give you title to the gold.

  • Once across the water you will be walking through the woods to the final spot. I believe the chest is inside a piece of wood at the base of a tree with the blaze marking either on the tree or next to it. 

Let me know what y’all think. If someone thinks this is a great solve and heads out there before I can get there, and you just so happen to find it…just remember who directed you there. LOL! Good luck everyone!

– James Collier

 

 

 

 

105 thoughts on “Most of a Biscuit Basin Solve…

  1. It’s a very good solve. VERY good. I’ve been wondering myself why all the references to kitchen and food. I bought his last book Once Upon a While, and it also referenced kitchen right off. In TTOTC, they were listening to the radio and guessing who’d be first in top songs. In OUAW, Forrest was pretending to perorm an opera. I was leaning towards what each book may have in common one to the other, and then making comparisons and deductions. These two chapters would have kitchen and music in common. I’m also.from South Carolina, in the upstate area near Greenville. Forrest didn’t like Greenville. Lolol Can’t blame him. I wish you the very best with this. If you’d like my email address, and we can share here, please let me know. Thank you. Good luck…

  2. I understand that, but he also stated that his dad told him to never tell the whole truth. That’s why I took this approach. Didn’t he also at one point state “read the poem, go back and read the book, then read the poem again.” Or something to that affect?

  3. James you are on the right track but you missed so much. I will be in this area the first week of September as well. After eight years of trying to get there, I’m finally going. Good luck.

    Ken (in New York)

    • There are other solves I have for this area, but this was my main focus for now. My other involves Warrior geyser as he stated in the book if you see a warrior staring, move quickly away. Matches with Tarry Scant.

  4. First, Ken ( in Texas),
    “Unlock the clues that are scattered among these pages……inside the book cover
    Also page 133 , ” there are also other subtle clues sprinkled in the stories”..
    If you’re skipping the book, you might as well stay home…Imo of course..
    Secondly, James
    You started off by saying you went to DNM because you knew exactly where it is..
    I’m interested in knowing what took you there..

    • Eaglesabound,

      I was under the impression that WWWH was Warm Springs right below Warm Springs Cliff in the heart of DNM. It meets the Yampa River. It is literally due south of Browns Park NWR. That river is no place for the Meek as it is a Class IV rapid if I remember correctly. I did some research of that area and back in the 70s there was a huge rock avalanche increasing the water depth. They stated typically every 100 years there is a huge rock slide that changes the area and water. Due to Fenns comment about it might change in the future (not exact words), I took this as heavy loads and water high.

      Taking the canyon down following the rapid, the river draws nigh to the left, wrapping around Jenny Lind Rock to the upside down Omega symbol (Horse shoe looking at it). This leads you to Pool Creek (There’ll be no paddle up your creek) to go along with the Jenny Lind Rock avalanche. Hear me all and listen good I took to mean Whispering Cave area. Now the next part is kind of weird, and I do not know how anyone could place this there on google earth, but it is there if you zoom in towards the ground. I challenge everyone to have an open mind and think like a child when doing this. Open google earth, click on the ruler, and place the first point at the end of whispering cave…go to the right into canyon about 500-510 feet and stop. Zoom in and there is a stick figure that looks almost like the stick figures Fenn drew in his book. My thought was why did he go back and redo the book adding more stick figures? For what reason. It was a stretch, but if you look it is 1000% THERE. Even more if you flip the stick figure on google earth (rotate google earth while on the picture of the stick figure) If you look closely, the shadow stick figure makes an FF.

      I searched this whole entire area for about a day and a half. Came up empty handed of course

      • James,
        We are in the same general area in DNM, but I believe you missed some critical pieces of information that f put in the book. Im pretty sure it would bring you back to Echo Park..When you get tired of looking in Yellowstone hit me up and maybe we can compare notes. I’d like to make one more trip before I give up on this spot…

        • I would have bet the house on it then that Echo Park and Whispering Cave area WAS the solution. I parked in Echo Park and briefly looked in that area but not in depth. I’m more than willing to compare notes on that location as I am not 100% sold on my Yellowstone solve or I would not have posted it.

          • Whispering cave would have nicely fit, ” your effort will be worth cold” …
            Contact Dal to get my email if you want to chat.

          • James,
            Excellent breakdown of the stories. You have given me thoughts for our search area.
            I used to live in Rock Hill out at Peachtree and Neely Store road. Live in Kannapolis now. It’s good to see other Fennophiles in my area.
            We also have been out west searching for the TC. Have made multiple trips. Our area is in northern NM. Was planning the next trip for this week but have postponed it until late August….. if all the stars line up.
            Thanks again for the breakdown…it has given me, and I’m sure others, food for thought.
            Best of luck in any future searches

          • I walked into Whispering Cave and looked around a little but didn’t spend much time as he said it is not in a cave. I will reach out to Dal to obtain the e-mail address.

  5. James – thank you for sharing your ideas and the thought processes that guided you to your solution, and I wish you well in your quest. Check back in with the blog after your search!

    Ken in Texas….from the dust cover jacket of TTOTC: “Unlock the clues that are scattered among these pages and you can go home with a bronze chest that is so full of gold and precious jewelry that it’s almost too heavy for one person to carry”. That phrase is in quotation marks on the dust cover jacket and one is let to assume that it is a quote from the author.

    IMO TTOTC is a valuable reference/resource. The poem does not seemingly offer support or verification as to the correct solution of the clues, so it appears only reasonable to use TTOTC, TFTW, OUAW etc as tools for confirmation (bias)!

  6. Thanks for sharing, James. Biscuit Basin also contains a few interesting names related to riches: opal, sapphire, & jewel. Good luck on your BOTG trip!

    • You’re welcome. Thanks for the comment! I did read about that and it makes for a good area based upon my interpretation of tarry scant. Once I visit the area, I will update everyone with the piece of information I am keeping secret if it doesn’t pan out

  7. Nice job with hints from the book. I may be able to save you an expensive trip though. I’ve searched much of that area. Let me just detail where exactly I have been and you can decide.

    Iron Springs Creek: I also thought the iron fire escape was perfect for this because iron springs creek spills into the Firehole. I started at that spot and hiked the creek past a shed I spotted on Google Earth here: 44.4512413816, -110.844313968. It is very sketchy back in that area and I sank waste deep in mud once. I turned around when I realized it was a bit too dangerous in the muddy canyon. I hiked the opposite side of the creek on the way back. I did find this large pile of cut trees that was intentionally placed there. I was in the wood searching that thing but found nothing. My son and I went back later and caught a few trout fly fishing Iron Springs 🙂

    Summit Lake: I have a book that details lots of waterfalls in Yellowstone, including unnamed ones. If you start on the Summit lake trail you will make a steep climb. When you get to the top you can travel West to get to a creek with a waterfall they dubbed Intermittent Falls. It is only running in late spring early summer and you can actually spot it from Biscuit Basin. At the top of the falls you have a wonderful view of Biscuit Basin. I searched around the top of the falls for about 15 minutes before I had to head back to check out of my cabin in West Yellowstone. I really liked the area and there are lots of big boulders up there. I wish I had more time to search but I had to head out. I actually ran part of the way back. I may go back there sometime just because of the view.

    Searched the area around Astra Springs.

    Fairy Falls: I climbed to the top of Fairy Falls. I realized right away that FF would not be able to do it at 80, but I knew there were two waterfalls up above it that I wanted to see so me and my family did it. Amazing views up there.

    Little Firehole: Did the on trail hike to Mystic Falls of course. Also, hiked up this off trail on the south side of it until I got to an cliff that there was no going around or over.

    If you would like any pics you can get my email address from Dal, and I’ll send them.

    It still may be in that area, but I have searched everything I thought was relevant there.

    Good luck!

    • Made a mistake. They actually called the falls Unfaithful Falls because it was intermittent and close to Old Faithful. It is located at 44.4743936514, -110.870895608. I also searched below it. Hard area to walk around with the large rocks and downed trees. I went to Astra after this at: 44.4759736749, -110.86700681

      • Thanks for the information! I e-mailed Dal and asked for you e-mail address. The spot Im interested in is a very specific spot, due to my interpretation of Tarry Scant. It is within location of the areas you just mentioned, but a spot with about a 20 yard radius.

        Either way, if it’s not there, I’ve always wanted to visit Yellowstone, with dreams of living in West Yellowstone, or Bozeman…so it would be worth the money spent.

      • Hi Aaron: your coordinate precision is about 1/100th of a millimeter. 😉 You can safely truncate at the fifth digit after the decimal place; for latitude, that’s still a precision of about 44 inches — far better than GPS accuracy.

  8. You just made me hungry. Ha ha,
    Your solve I think is very good and interesting
    Now that is thinking. Go for it.

  9. I have searched this area several times, taken the upper loop to mystic falls, taken the lower loop to mystic falls, hiked in the rocks, hiked above mystic falls (Made my own trail), Its for sure not near mystic falls. However, I have started leaning towards the trail that leads to summit lake (waters high) and found a spring near by that is difficult but not impossible to get to (Asta Spring). You have to know where to leave the trail behind and make your own way towards Asta Springs. Fenn once said you should go play canasta if you don’t have the 1st clue. I am beginning to think he is literally throwing clues at us all the time…. I am hoping to get a day off work soon and be able to hike up there again. Maybe next few days. Keep you posted.

    • Thanks for the insight Jeff. I also do not think it is anywhere near Mystic Falls. I’m more focused on the trail maps than the actual falls itself. I believe when Fenn said you need a good map, he meant a trail map. So when I mentioned mystic falls, I meant mystic falls trail, fairy falls/little firehole trail, summit lake trail. My location is not near the trail, but a venture off of one of them.

  10. James mentioned something interesting which I have thought about…Everyone who was walking behind me knew what I done. People were beginning to notice me. (I think he is referencing he was on his way back from hiding the chest when people started to notice him as he walked back to his car; either the first time or second time).

    Do searchers feel f was seen that day he hid the tc? Either on the way in from his vehicle or on the way back?

    I would be inclined to think f could almost guarantee no one would be around where he parked his car. Or, at the very least, he could scan the scene from a point overlooking the final location.

    • I thought about this multiple times. Although he states “gone alone in there,” it doesn’t necessarily mean it is in a place where no one would be around. If he walks off of a trail and into the open, 98% of people are not going to follow, especially within a national park area as most people are there to sight see the falls and not venture off into hiking.

      My thought was once he got closer to a main trail, people were starting to notice him. They noticed him walk into the woods, people noticed him walk back from the woods, then noticed him take off into the woods again.

      I could be way off, but just the way I interpreted it. How could he be the only one to know of the slide down from the classroom?

  11. I like your thinking on how you looked at TTOTC, but I think your solve just skipped over any analysis of WWWH. Seems like you buy into the common thinking that the first clue means either Ojo Caliente, the Firehole River, or the Yellowstone Caldera. Maybe that line of thinking is right, we will not know until the chest is found and the finder chooses to share the solution. But I believe WWWH is much more subtle and complex in meaning. I do not accept the idea that FF handed us the first clue on a silver platter.

    It looks like a beautiful area to explore, with some marvel gazes.

    Thanks for sharing, and like I say, JMHO.

  12. hey James. About Ojo Caliente Spring, where did this come from? You said, “Park the car at the entrance to the unmarked trail on the right-hand side of the road.” Couldn’t we just forego the first clue and drive directly there? He followed all the clues, it was the most direct route, but with your solve, don’t need the first clue. If he followed all clues, then driving past the first could lead to just driving to where you park, bypassing earlier clues/clue. Those are just concerns I see at first. If you are confident, then stick with it, just need a couple tweeks. Still a good job James, good luck.

    • poisonivey – In a right triangle, the “most direct route” is traveling the hypotenuse, which is ‘IT’ from the Poem and Forrest’s river route in the preface of TFTW in my solve.

      My search buddy and I traveled West in her truck, from just above the Barns Holes to Baker’S Hole, along triangle leg a, making a roughly 90 degree turn at the YNP West Entrance onto Highway 191, then heading due North to Baker’S Hole Campground, along triangle leg b. Forrest’s Baker’S Hole Campground destination from the preface of TFTW represents Angle f or Phi in this Golden Triangle in my solve. That triangle location represents the Golden Ratio. Didn’t Forrest say the Poem was written by an architect? Leonardo da Vinci would have a Mona Lisa smile, I think. And J.H. Sharp has a lovely circle-square window in one of his paintings in the book Forrest wrote about him. Get back in the box, with the 90 degree corners: the original boundaries of YNP.

      All IMO.

      • Lol, Lisa, ” I could go ‘right straight’ to it.” But, I think the hypotenuse would be considered the longest side actually. It is very interesting that our solves are probably so different, but mine also considers the golden ratio and right triangles. I think the reason he said “right straight” is to let us know to use that type of triangle on the landscape, instead of having to deal with arcs and the such in reality. But my triangle stems from a shadow instead of an actual route. The shadow being the more direct route.
        The reason I posted was to show most everyone to not forget that f travelled all the clues. Most of the write ups we see, searchers have their wwwh at a lengthy distance, where they continue to drive to say the 3rd or 4th clue or even more then park the car. This opens up the argument that I, for example, could just come from a different road and park my car at the 3rd or 4th clue, or more, and not even use clues 1-3.
        The main point, it’s just very unlikely that f drove past the first clue. It leads to all the clues being walked and the car being parked at the first clue. Reason being obvious, if you drive past the first clue and park at later clues, then why not just drive and park at those later clues? Since we must follow all clues, it’s the most direct path. (example being Charlie M’s write up, not trying to be too negative about it Charlie, don’t take offense, but with wwwh being the head waters, and the 4th clue around Silverton, couldn’t I just drive to Silverton, foregoing the first three clues or so?)
        The only answer would be that you have no choice in having to travel to clues because there is only one way in or out, and most direct. But even that must contend with having to follow all the clues in both trips and that you wouldn’t be going down a canyon, back up, then down again.
        The driving past the first clue idea is for those trying to force fit a distance in my opinion. That the spot is out there in the wilds, but need to get close because f walked less then a few miles. Which is arguable. Most places that are out in the forest don’t allow motorized vehicles, so that leads to thinking that long distances to walk comes into play, but that would go against what f is saying at face value, (which is also arguable). That is why I asked how he got Ojo Caliente Spring from the poem. I look at the poem, but I don’t see it. What, in solving the poem, made you get to that wwwh, from using the poem.
        I’ll say it like this, let’s forget everything said except the one true thing to remember, that all you need is the poem, all the info is there. Forget 9 clues, forget everything except you just need the poem. So you have the poem in front of you, solve it. Show me how you solved to get the spot you got. As soon as you reach for a scrapbook, an ATF, anything else f has said, a map, a dictionary, whatever, that nullifies the solve. Just the poem. Nobody as of yet has done that. At least from Feb. 2011 from what I’ve seen.
        Show me how to put an “x” on a map from solving the poem, and then we could look at maps, and tweek a solve with all the ATF’s. That is why I posted the questions. If I am to drive thru clues and onward to an area, I first need to see that it’s the only way to get there. Also, I can’t skip any of the clues if I chose to make a second trip. I need to walk far enough that the weight of the chest would effect me to a point that it would be a burden to carry in one trip. And, I am using the most direct route. Not forgetting that when he went, he wouldn’t go down a canyon, back up, then down again.
        IMO, it’s hard to get on-board with a solve that has the searcher driving past the first clue. Makes you think, in 1000 years from now, when we are all flying, why not just fly to the spot, foregoing 7 to 8 clues? Maybe f didn’t think about everything, just tried to think of everything.

        • You make some really good points and I never thought of it that way. I’ve only been privy to the solve for around three months now, so I am still learning a lot, reading a lot, and visiting this blog daily. I am willing to take in any advice people are willing to give. It goes along with anything else in live…surround yourself with people who are better than you and you will become successful.

          The only time I have ever really been able to solve the poem, stretching it a little bit, by placing an X on a map is the following:

          1. WWWH : Stillwater County Montana, (Almost like a shape of a key)
          2. Take it in the canyon down, not far but too far to walk, put in below the home of brown – Beartooth Mountains
          3. From there it’s no place for the meek, the end is ever drawing nigh – Nye Montana
          4. No paddle up your creek – Stillwater Creek
          5. Heavy loads and water high – Stillwater Plateau
          6. Worth the cold – elevation at 9500-10000ft is pretty cold
          7. If you’re brave and in the wood – Mt Wood East

          There is one I am missing, or misinterpreted, because last time I did that the X landed on Wood Lake at the base of Mt. Wood East in the Cluster Gallatin NF

          • I hear you James, there is a big learning curve. We’ve all done it. Started by trying to marry some place to a map to start and find what we think the poem is saying in the surrounding area. I call it the first year blues. It’s not “solving the poem”. It is however a learning process that we must take. It’s us putting what we are use to and how we interpret the daily things into play concerning what we think is solving. We interpret by face value and research to come up with something we are impressed with. I first started near Purple Mountain in Yellowstone area. But I noticed that I wasn’t using the poem as much as some map/GE. And back at the beginning, all we were use to hearing was “all the information you need is in the poem”.
            Like just now, you posted, Stillwater County Montana as a wwwh. And again, if you did a write up and just said this, my response would be, how did you get that from the poem? How did the poem tell you to start there. Don’t reach for a map, don’t give a history lesson, just the poem. what in the poem made you start there? You see what I mean? And believe me, I spent a year and a half thinking that I was solving a poem when in reality, just finding places on a map that sounded good.
            The hard part is sitting down with the poem in front of you and trying to figure a way to solve it. To find the architecture if you will. Not saying this method is right at all, but for an example, I see instruction words, instructions within words, instruction letters, abbreviations, misspellings and sounds likes. Solve every line as many different ways as it presents by following those instructions. Again, not saying it’s correct, but it is a way of trying to solve the poem. Others have used numbers right off the bat, (I think the poem would have to tell you to do that, but who knows), like this: https://dalneitzel.com/2015/01/17/not-just-another-solution/
            I don’t agree with the solve but it shows how a searcher is trying to solve the poem. Don’t get me wrong, the solve may very well be to grab a map, find places that are similar to the poem and find the chest. Nobody knows for sure, but, if all the info is in just the poem, and obviously looking at the poem nothing says it right out, then there is a hidden message in the poem that in some sort of subtle way, will give the answer. The tough part like I said, is finding that way to solve the poem, knowing that just the words will not give you the exact answer you are looking for. If I was to give advice, (and what do I really know anyway), but I would urge you to find YOUR way of trying to just solve the poem. Forget for now that there are 9 clues. Forget using a map, in fact, forget everything you’ve heard regarding the chase, and just look at the poem, until you start to see that there is a way to just solve the poem. The poem will let you know all you need to know. It may be quite possible that the solve doesn’t have 9 clues, not that are noticeable, but if it gives you that “x” on a map, then with your solve of the poem, then use maps and ATF’s and what-not. In the end, you will be able to reference your clues by the path you take. By doing the first year solve that we all have done, it becomes a force fit solve. You force the clues and the areas and places.
            I’m in no way trying to knock you down. However you decide to continue, I wish you the best and good luck. It takes a lot to post a write up of a solve. To hear from your peers on the negative things after you’ve spent so much time in research is at best frustrating. Take the positive away from the comments and not the negatives. You have a good organizational skill with possible hints in the book, that may come into play further down the road. See what some of the “vets” are saying because they really are trying to help. And, if one day you see a pattern in the poem, some instructions or directions, or something that can only be there by design, look further into it, that may solve the poem.

          • James;

            As Poisonivy asked – What in the poem led you there? Why Stillwater County MT? Why is it important that it looks almost like the shape of a key?

            Not saying that you are wrong, because I do not have the slightest idea whether you are right or not – Just asking. If “Everything is in the poem.” Something in the poem has to take you to WWWsH.

            What about Stillwater County Montana is “warm waters” or a place that these “Warm Waters Halt?”

            Ask the same question about every line. What IN THE POEM took me here. Throwing a dart at place #1, and then finding a likely canyon, and then a likely “something” that could be a “hoB” will take you only so far.

            Why did Forrest say: “There are nine clues in the poem, and the clues are in consecutive order. If you want to find the treasure chest – you have my book there – I’ll tell you how to do it. Read the book just normally … the poem and the rest of the book, and then go back and read the poem 6, 8, 10 times – study every line, every word. Then after you do that, read the book again, slowly, with the idea of looking for clues or hints, that are in the book that will help you follow the clues. You can find the chest with just the clues, but there are hints in the book that will help you with the clues.” f
            Why must we read the poem over and over and over? Why must we then try to find hints in TToTC that will help with the clues. There MUST be a reason Forrest laid out this blueprint so emphatically. Just askin’ questions – JDA

          • I am guessing here, but I see the logic. I would assume “waters halt” leads James to “Stillwater.” Not a big leap. Other than the loss of “warm.”

        • poisonivey,

          You said above ~”Since we must follow all clues, it’s the most direct path. (example being Charlie M’s write up, not trying to be too negative about it Charlie, don’t take offense, but with wwwh being the head waters, and the 4th clue around Silverton, couldn’t I just drive to Silverton, foregoing the first three clues or so?)”pi

          You are assuming that every thing has to be driven, you can follow the path to the treasure simply by using the right map. No one knows for sure how Forrest followed the poem when he hid the treasure because he has never mentioned how he did it, all we know is that he parked his car. The idea he parked his car at the first clue and walked the rest may not be true, maybe he parked his car near the blaze. If Forrest created the map because he was familiar with the area and been there a few times and wrote the poem to fit the area. The other misnomer is when Forrest told us there are no short cuts all automatically assumes that one has to drive or walk the entire length and make no shortcuts on the ground. I think what he intended in regards to shortcuts, was to not skip any clues or to try a faster way identifying what the clues are beforehand, such as predetermining what the blaze is and then work the clues after that in order to find the tc.

          My method in order to solve the clues was through geography, places and things on a map, Forrest has mentioned in the past was to marry the poem to a map. Also the most direct route to the treasure may be through the use of the poem and a map.

          Quote “The person who finds the treasure will have studied the poem over and over, and thought, and analyzed and moved with confidence. Nothing about it will be accidental.”f at MW February 4, 2013. The only way nothing will be accidental is for the searcher to know beforehand and that is through the poem, map and what may help is to recognize what the subtle hints in TToTC.

          I sure in the heck am not going to do botg unless I know beforehand where I’m going. My botg where planned to exclude things that were related to different things that looked like possible blazes, “effort worth the cold” and “in the wood”, the small area has always been the same. The use of using ATF to validate what any clue is, IMVHO is folly, only the poem, map & subtle hints will lead one to the treasure.

          Just Say’n

          • Agree. Just because he said he followed the clued in consecutive order, doesn’t mean he walked them all, or drove them all. No information supports this. He could have parked at clue 1… clue 2… etc.

            And even though he said he followed the 9 clues in order when he hid the chest, he never really states he followed them from 9 to 1 to get to the car, and 1 to 9 and 9 to 1 again for the second trip.

            I haven’t seen anything that goes for or to the contrary, of driving from 1 to 4 (insert your own number here), walking from 4 to 9, 9 to 4, 4 to 9 for second trip, 9 to 4, and then driving 4 back past 1.

            all in my non-opinion.

          • Charlie M,

            I tend to agree with you. I know at the beginning he said all you needed was the poem. Then people started getting killed over this treasure hunt, so I believe it has been subtly giving clues throughout the years. To me, this is why he changed his wording and then said to read the poem, then the book, then the poem 6 to 8 times again.

            Then TFTW came out and “accidental” clue was leaked. Then he releases OUAW and I believe there are clues in that book as well. I try to believe FF does things for a reason…JMO

          • Yellowdog;

            You say: ” he never really states he followed them from 9 to 1 to get to the car, and 1 to 9 and 9 to 1 again for the second trip.” I disagree.

            Look at this:mysteriouswritings.com/featured-question-with-forrest-fenn-on-the-thrill-of-the-chase-treasure-hunt-direct-route/

            “Dear Mr. Fenn, Once you hid the treasure, did you take the exact same route in reverse to return to your car?”
            Thank you. ~ Tyler Y.

            Yes I did Tyler, it was the most direct route”. f JDA

          • JDA beat me to it. Thanks JDA.
            To answer, it is only logical that one must walk all the clues. Like I said, if you end up driving to later clues, then is that the only, direct path that can be taken. If I could forego the first clue to get to a searchers 3rd or 4th or later clues to park, then why would you need to bother with the early clues? I used Charlie M as an example. If the headwaters are wwwh, but you drive to say Stillwater or the 4th or so clue, why can’t I just not go to the headwaters or the canyon and just drive to the forth clue? I don’t need to go to the first three clues, I can take a shortcut, the way the path goes. If you drive, you must contend with f saying to follow all the clues. Even when he was asked about following the clues on the second trip or not, his reply is to follow all the clues, There is no other way and the most direct path. Driving to later clues means that f took a shortcut on his second trip, in which he said he didn’t do, that to follow all clues. Returning to his car, he covered all clues. That all means parking at the first clue. You cannot have a correct solve if you are able to take shortcuts. The direct path will be the only option. Charlie, you said, The use of using ATF to validate what any clue is, IMVHO is folly, only the poem, map & subtle hints will lead one to the treasure. This is an ATF you are using to confirm your solve. At the core, the only thing you need is the poem, and like I’ve said to you before, if you need to use any instruments before solving just the poem, then you are leaving the poem, and flirting with force fitting. If I have just the poem in front of me, I cannot understand your solve. There are no places where you solve the poem. In fact, instead of going back to the poem, you go back to a map. I know that f has not said you need to find a map which contains 9 clues that if followed precisely………etc…
            Nothing wrong with what you guys are doing. Like I said, there is a learning curve we all go thru. If someone doesn’t inform you to SOLVE THE POEM, that there is a way, you will continue to be stuck with that first year type of solve. A searchers wwwh and later clues needs to be on a path that the only option is to go on that path. If I could drive to a later clue on your solve, then your approach is flawed.
            To not take into consideration any ATF’s is just foolish. It is a good way to tweak a solve for correctness. If a solve goes against f’s words, then it’s most likely wrong. I will say it again Charlie, using a map at the start will only lead to force fitting a solve to an area that is filled with coincidences. It’s the basis for a first year solve. That is why I said, take the positive out of your flawed solve. You have said not to listen to any outside sources. So do that. All you need is the poem, very well, don’t consider 9 clues, no maps or dictionaries, don’t even consider the elevations. NOTHING, except the poem. Now show me a solve. Because in the end, that will need to be the thing that supports a solve. Because if you put out your solve, it’s like saying you could use some help. There is no better advice then to let first year searchers know that they need to put their solve up against just the poem. I cannot see with your solves, with just the poem in front of me, how you started where you started, why you continued on like you have, and where you have come to the places you have. It’s not in the poem. That’s why I added a searchers link to their solve that tried to solve the poem. That is an attempt at solving the poem. Just naming places that are coincidental with map names is not solving the poem. You guys show me where you’ve solved the poem. Just use the poem and come to the places you have. Explain how I need to see how you are solving the poem and how you got the names of places with the names you’ve come up with, and I will praise your solves as excellent and a way to go. I would be your biggest fan and let it known that you understand or have one up on everyone. What you’ve all presented is flawed, and that’s okay, you just need to see where and why. The problem is all the time spent on a flawed solve. I know, it’s tough to change and accept, but that is what needs to be done. The advice comes from logic and time in. The poem is the holy grail. And in the end, only the poem. Try it, put the poem in front of you and read your solve. Could you come to the places you came to. Are you really “solving the poem?” I know you can’t, and that is what we are trying to help you with. You just haven’t found out how to solve the poem yet. It will come. Prove me wrong and just put the poem in front of you. Sooner or later, you will notice something in the poem. You will see what a possible “solve of the poem” means. And you will look back at your first solves here and see how you were so far off.
            I wouldn’t post such a long answer to your posts if I didn’t want you to see. I wouldn’t tell you if I didn’t follow the same guidelines that you guys are now using. The sooner you understand, the quicker you will find your own niche on a real solve. Just the poem, only the poem, over and over and over and over. You have good ideas, you’re no dummies, or you wouldn’t tackle this whole thing. Back to the poem, poem, poem, poem…..It will come, I guarantee it. It is up to you if you want to listen or not.

          • JDA, just my opinion, but just suppose you were to walk 4 blocks one direction, then turn around and walk the same path 3 blocks in the opposite direction… if someone were to ask if you followed the same path, you could reply yes and be fully honest.

            But that is just my take… for what it is worth…

          • Yellowdog: you’ve accurately captured my sentiments on the issue of Forrest following the clues forwards and backwards. Seeker would disagree vehemently if he were still posting with us, so I throw that out on his behalf. But I would still contend any counterarguments do not hold up to logical scrutiny of Forrest’s relevant ATFs. In short: I don’t think he walked the clues 1-9, 9-1, 1-9, 9-1, and there is not quote from Forrest that says he did.

          • poisonivey,

            I hear what you are saying, but solving the poem before you even look at a map is again a flaw. It appears that you are ignoring one very important thing that Forrest has said not too long ago!

            On February 4, 2017 @ MW,

            1Q) Even today, after more than six years of people searching, and after all the news coverage, articles, and stories written about your secreted treasure, some people are just learning about your Thrill of the Chase treasure hunt and getting involved. It continues to inspire. Do you have any advice for these new people? How should they begin the search six years after so many others? Do you feel they are at any disadvantage?

            “No, fresh eyes and new thinking might provoke a winning idea. I would advise new searchers to look for the clues in my poem and try to marry them to a place on a map. It seems like the longer one thinks about the search the more they complicate the problem.”f

            Note he did not say the book or any book is needed or ATF, it is simply put “look for the clues in my poem and try to marry them to a place on a map.”f

            If you wish to ignore, then I wish you the best of luck.

          • You are way off Charlie. I never said to not use a map or any other tool to help. I am in no way ignoring anything. At the core of the chase, all you need is the poem, period. I simply stated to put the poem in front of you and look at your solves. Can you get the places and the answers you need by just the poem. If the answer is no, then your solve is flawed.
            He was asked a question if he followed all in his second trip, but was vague with an answer but still said to follow all clues no other way. Either way, if you start at a wwwh, go in a canyon, pass some meek place, whatever you have, then park at say clue 4 or 5,your solve needs to make sure that the route you take has no other options. That you must go that specific path. These write ups have not shown that. I can simply go directly to a later clue. How can you not see that this is an error in your solve? Your solves also do not solve any part of the poem. My simple post just says a basic thing, to help searchers read the poem correctly or close to it. That is to just use the poem, and that’s it. You can post ATF’s all day, hints in the book, whatever, but at the core of it all, what we were told at the beginning, was that ALL the info we needed was in the poem. That is it, so, your solve should stand up to only having the poem in front of you and solving. Nothing else. It’s a way to police your own solve. The link I gave, even though I don’t believe in that way of solving, shows how a searcher used just the poem to try to get a solve. Their write up and insight, whether wrong or right, is far, far, far better then what has been presented as of late. Because the attempt uses the poem. I could put just the poem in front of me and see what they are trying to say. I don’t have to pull out some map, read what they think are clues and how on a map it follows the poem. Then get history lessons on why they are right. They never use the poem to explain anything except for coincidental names. Like I said, you can take the advice or not, makes no matter to me. Just no that now you have had two write-ups and they are basically the same thing. The poem is more important than anything, so why have solves that have a map the most important aspect? I don’t get it. There is a way to solve the poem. I have never said not to use tools that can help. I encourage it, but if your solve doesn’t stack up to just the poem, it’s no good. What is so hard about understanding that? Charlie, if you want to say not to listen to ATF’s, that’s fine, but stay consistent. You are always using ATF’s to try to prove a point. In 2011, all we needed was the map and that’s what we were told. Again, that’s it. I don’t see how you are marrying clues to a map, WHEN YOU DON’T KNOW FOR SURE WHAT IS A CLUE. And f has said that he has not given the answers to wwwh, the blaze, or Brown in the book in a subtle way. And we know 2 of those are clues, for sure. So how are you going to marry something without an answer for it? The only thing that will get you to the chest is to follow the poem precisely. solve just the poem.
            It’s like trying to argue the point that the walk you will have will be around just a mile or two. What is so hard to understand that the walk will be lengthy? Carrying 42lbs. a mile or two is nothing. So why would he say not to try to carry it all back In one trip? Maybe because it is heavy, and you won’t be only walking 1-2 miles. Same thing so obvious in having a wwwh, a canyon, and more follow just one path because it is the only option. That you cannot possibly drive to later clues first. A path that gives the searcher only that one option. You can use maps, geography, whatever all you want, I’ll use the poem, I think the info is there instead. Once I have the solve, I will use maps and marry clues, (which I’ve already done). Find or not, right or wrong, the write-up will show how to solve the poem.

  13. One part of the poem that has always frustrated me is:
    “Not far, but too far to walk.”

    Not far from where?
    Knowing that is just as important as knowing where warm waters halt is. In the book “Too Far to Walk” it was from West Yellowstone to Ojo Caliente Spring, or the Madison headwaters. But, if the treasure anywhere else in the Rocky Mountains of the four states north of Santa Fe we have to look at a bigger picture. So,I consider solving that as part of any valid solve.
    Not far from home? Not far from WWWH? Not far from a camping spot? Not far from a certain spot that might be subtly hinted at in the book?
    It bothers me because many of my solves are far from everywhere. So, I just designate something to fit. The beginning of the dirt road, or Tea Kettle Rock. I don’t know.
    DO You?

    • Hi Michael;

      I can not tell you where or how far it is, I can only tell you how I interpret the words.

      “Begin “IT” where warm waters halt…” What is “IT”? for me “IT” = the quest
      So, begin the quest at some place WWWsH – (Wherever that is)

      “And take “IT” in the canyon down…” Again what is “IT”? “IT”
      = the quest
      So, take (or continue) your quest down a canyon. – How far should I go down this canyon?

      “Not far, but too far to walk.”

      So, for me the “Not far, but too far to walk” is an unknown distance down the canyon from the starting place of the WWWsH. For me, this distance will be no farther than 10 miles because of the preface to TFTW. JMO – JDA

    • hey Michael – if you draw someone a map to somewhere, It would seem to me that you, would start the directions from where you are at- there fore I would think that I would start in Santa fe- that would take you to- not far but to far to walk

  14. Very detailed solve.

    You are going upriver from ojo caliente to take it in the canyon down.

    I’ve always thought the B capitalized in Brown was important

  15. It is interesting solution but I can’t buy Biscuit Basin as the home of Brown. Not sure that huge imagination is needed to think that Forrest coded Biscuit Basin in poem as the hoB because of biscuit’s color (IMO). Good luck with search there.

  16. Hi James: I like your thought processes, and I believe that you are correctly “identifying” some of the hints that I think Forrest stuck in TTOTC. The problem is interpretation. Because the hints are subtle, they can appear to apply to a lot of different places.

    You don’t explain how you settled on Ojo Caliente as your WWWH (though I can guess). And my answer to that is the same as for everyone else who chooses O.C. as their WWWH:

    “Emily, All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search. f”

    I have yet to see a searcher provide a plausible explanation for how they would come up with Ojo Caliente — and know with very high confidence it was correct — from the poem alone. Most counter that the River Bathing story has been on Forrest’s website for years, to which I reply, “So what?” How does that one story, out of the hundreds Forrest has told, provide the confidence that Forrest is talking about?

    “The most common mistake that I see searchers make is that they underestimate the importance of the first clue. If you don’t have that one nailed down you might as well stay home and play Canasta. f”

    Your selection of Biscuit Basin seems to be 100% dependent on TTOTC, and not something that could be confidently derived from the poem.

    From the WLVQ FM 96 Torg & Elliott Show (1/7/2016):
    Jerry: “Hey, I want to begin with this for those not familiar, we kind of set up your entire story before we, uh, got you on the telephone here, but does somebody need to read your books to find the treasure, or do all of the clues exist within the poem?”

    FF: “They don’t need to read my book, but they need to read the poem.”

    But I want to end constructively: you have a critical eye, James, and have found many of the stories in TTOTC to have curious or suspicious elements — things that “stand out” or seem to be aberrations. Your instincts are good there. I would just recommend that you don’t let the book ~lead~ you to your solution — that’s the poem’s job. Good hunting!

    • Thanks for the insight. I appreciate the information and the way you put everything. I came to the conclusion of Ojo Caliente Springs because of my original WWWH (Madison Junction). I was going with the 10 mile theory as TFTW and Biscuit Basin is almost exactly a 10 mile drive from OCS, instead of the roughly 14 (if I remember correctly from MJ).

      I was also going with the statement in the book where Fenn said his father told him to never tell the whole truth (paraphrasing), so when he stated “not deliberate to aid the seeker,” he might actually have done it deliberately. JMO

      • Hi James: IMO the 10-mile theory is another big problem that I see a lot of searchers use. TFTW came out in 2013. Were searchers just wasting their time the first three years? They certainly didn’t have access to that 10-mile quote from page xiii of the Preface.

        • Hi James;

          I do not consider the first three years without this info a waste. Isn’t it possible that Forrest saw too many people goin’ “Down the canyon” WAY to far, and published TFTF with the preface that includes the 10 mile limit or hint? Forrest has limited the search elements 5,000’/10,200′, not in a graveyard, not in an outhouse, not in Idaho or Utah – Why shouldn’t he place a restriction on “NF,BTFTW?” Were the people that searched in Utah, Idaho, in graveyards etc. at a disadvantage or wasting their time? Possibly, but they played by the rules that they were given. When the rules changed they adapted. How is this any different? JMO – JDA

          • Hi JDA,
            may you please provide exact citation about 10 mile limit from TFTW book? I still don’t have this book because always think that TTOTC contains enough information for search.
            In my files I have question about clues in TFTW book:
            Q: Are there clues in the TFTW book? “Yes, because the map is in the book.”
            As usually Forrest answer is mixed: we can think that there is only one clue in TFTW book – the map. Or that there are many clues including the map.

          • Andy S.: starting at the end of page xii:

            “I put a small rubber dinghy in the Madison River a few miles from West Yellowstone, Montana, and fished downstream to Baker’s Hole. That part of the river was in the quietly forgotten western edge of Yellowstone Park. There were no roads, no trails, and no rangers to remind me that I wasn’t supposed to do that.

            “The river distance was about ten miles, and the best fishing was in the bends where the water turned greenish deep and beautiful. The small boat containing my camping gear was tethered to my belt as I leisurely walked in the quiet river. I spent three days there, casually casting my fly and enjoying the solitude.

            “The river experience cemented my connection to that special country and I promised myself that some day I would make the trip again. That day never came for me, and my disappointment still casts a lonesome shadow across the Madison River. For me now, it’s just too far to walk. ff”

          • zaphod73491, thanks for the citation.
            I know now the meaning of TFTW cover picture: “lonesome shadow across the Madison River” 🙂
            Maybe around 10 miles distance is real hint for cracking poem clue NF,BTFTW…
            I remember that during TFTW book presentation Forrest said that he asked Dal to take photo for book cover at some place on Madison River that is 10 miles from Baker’s Hole – maybe it was a start point of this trip.

        • Hi JDA: I don’t see a problem with using “new” information to help constrain the search parameters. For instance, when Forrest wrote in 2016: “If you can’t make two trips from your car to your solve in several hours, then don’t go.” That’s almost a safety-related ATF, trying to prevent searchers from hiking absurd distances that a 79-year-old man with 22+ lbs. on his back is not going to do. He’s not giving an answer to any clue — he’s just ruling out the ridiculous.

          And I don’t have a problem with searchers interpreting the TFTW Preface as a guideline for how far “too far to walk” should not exceed. My problem is with many searchers using EXACTLY 10 miles as definitively being the answer to NF, BTFTW. Forrest isn’t going to start giving away clue answers just because we’ve been too slow to figure them out after 3 years.

          • Hi Zap;

            I agree – That is why I phrased it like I did: “and published TFTF with the preface that includes the 10 mile limit or hint?” a 10 mile limit – I didn’t say that NF,BTFTW was exactly 10 miles, but more an upper limit. JDA

          • It’s between 8.5 and 9.2 miles depending on what way you go. Car it’s 9.2 as it’s only one way. On a bike it’s 8.7 and walking it’s 6.2

          • Another problem being f did not answer if he used an alternate mode of transport. He left it up in the air. We might not believe he did, but we cannot discount it. To put our own spin on a distance without showing with f’s words an answer is foolish. F would tell us if it was needed to be known. Like Eric Sloane always marrying house keepers. 99% of us would have believed that he liked the maid, until f gave the answer. It’s a good example on how our thoughts, no matter if going by what is said, are totally wrong. F needs to deliver the punch line so we don’t “guess” are way out of the truth. All in interpretation.

        • Hi Finder: my feeling is that anyone who thinks NF, BTFTW is “not that hard” has probably not solved it. Consider that the first two clues were solved by 2013 (and possibly earlier), but not until the end of 2015 did Forrest give any indication that ~possibly~ four clues had been solved (and he wasn’t even certain of that).

          From that data alone, it seems pretty clear to me that “Not far, but too far to walk” is much harder to figure out than WWWH. After all, you presumably have the benefit of being in the right general area if you’ve solved WWWH, and yet apparently the early two-clue solvers remained stumped for at least a couple years.

        • Call me a contrarian Zap but I actually think that Forrest wrote that book in 2013 with the design of helping the lead searchers at that time. 2013, is about the point that he starts talking about someone or group of someones finding the second clue too. I honestly think that someone had a breakthrough in the solve that no one else had experienced just prior to TFTW’s publication. It tends to help that conversation when ten miles fits a solve nicely. But that’s neither here nor there and I think that time is the one who has the answer to that variance of opinion. We will just have to wait this chase out to find the answer.

          • Hi Double a: I think people should mentally prepare for the possibility that they will never know the answers to many of these types of questions. A finder may not emerge in our lifetime, and if per chance someone does solve it, they may be disinclined to come forward and reveal the solution.

            One thing I’ve always found interesting is that prior to Forrest saying that someone had solved the first two clues, he never (to my knowledge?) reported that someone had solved just the first clue. He went straight from zero to two.

    • Can someone, maybe you, or Dal, confirm this quote?

      “There are nine clues in the poem, and the clues are in consecutive order. If you want to find the treasure chest – you have my book there – I’ll tell you how to do it. Read the book just normally… the poem and the rest of the book, and then go back and read the poem 6, 8, 10 times – study every line, every word. Then after you do that, read the book again, slowly, with the idea of looking for clues, or hints, that are in the book that will help you follow the clues. You can find the chest with just the clues, but there are hints in the book that will help you with the clues. – Report From Santa Fe, Lorene Mills Interview, May 2011”

      • Hi James: yes, I can confirm it. Here’s my full quote:

        Report from Santa Fe with Lorene Mills (5/13/2011): Forrest: “Well, in my book there’s a poem, like I said. And there are nine clues in the poem. And the clues are in consecutive order. If you can read that – if you want to find the treasure chest, you have my book there, I’ll tell you how to do it. Read the book just normally: the poem, and the rest of the book. And then go back and read the poem 6, 8, 10 times. Study every line, every word. Then after you do that, read the book again slowly with the idea of looking for clues or hints that are in the book that will help you follow the clues. You can find the chest with just the clues, but there are hints in the book that will help you with the clues.”

      • Hi James. I have a cop[y of “Chasing words of Forrest Fenn – By J.C. Merritt. A search yielded the following link: reportfromsantafe.com/episodes/view/144/forrest-fenn/

        Although when you click on it, it says that the video is no longer available – So, Yes it is authentic, but not sure that it will help you much – JDA

        • Hiya JDA, and James,

          All three of the Lorene Mills interviews, as well as a host of others, are available here:

          https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkJKfPjGmOlmvJjdBlivuNA
          A searcher, Lucky Love, put them all in one place several years ago.

          Good write-up, James. I’m tickled that you are in the YNP, Wyoming, Montana camp. As zap said, you have a good eye…..but I’m pretty sure it is not in the northern states.

          Good Luck to Everybody……loco

          • Thanks for that. I have a solve for Montana, a solve for Wyoming, a solve for Colorado, and one for New Mexico.

            I’ve been able to check out the Colorado solve, but didn’t find anything there.

            New Mexico solve is based off of a newly found theory that might be a bit of a stretch. You know the picture of Forrest Fenn with the fur on the wall in the background, bullseye in the center? If you know the picture, take a look at the outline of Angel Fire, NM on google earth, pretty close resemblance to the fur, center of Angel Fire, NM matches the bullseye on the fur.

          • Thanks for the link Loco. Haven’t heard from you for a spell Loco. All OK with Ya’? JDA

  17. “Though I did greatly enjoy your article I must point out that scones are far superior in every way than biscuits. I would much rather have a scone with my tea than a bloody biscuit”.

    –Queen Elizabeth

    • Sparrow – LOL! I was thinking the same thing!

      I also prefer my solve at Baker’S Hole; never tell the ‘hole’ truth, though. Two can keep a secret. And biscuits are for commoners.

      Love, Elizabeth

      • Lisa, I’ve seen multiple times in different posts you referring to your solve as in the Baker’S Hole area. Is there a place in this blog where you have shared this solve?

        Once again, sorry as I am relatively new to this chase.

        • James Collier – This post about covers ‘IT’:

          https://dalneitzel.com/2019/05/14/odds-n-ends-about-fenns-treasure-hunt-82/#comment-770972

          But you can read up and down the thread from that post to see more of my related responses.

          poisonivy – If you pay for the gas money, I will drive you upstream to my WWWH at Madison Junction, where I believe Forrest started fly fishing down the Madison River in his sedan. Craig Matthews and Howard Back both do great play by plays of all the best holes in their books. No need to go there for all those clues in the Poem, unless you have a fly rod in hand, like my friend and I did. Just marry the clues to a map, like Forrest instructed. And then, go with confidence to the treasure. IMO.

          And in the formula for a right triangle, the hypotenuse distance is the square root of the sum of the squares of the two sides. We travelled those two sides by truck. Forrest traveled the shorter, more direct hypotenuse distance.

          Reminder – Forrest’s father was a math teacher.

          • Will be in Montana on Sept. 8th. Actually, my side and hyp. are basically equal.
            I would show marvel gaze, but destroyed it. Can still see the blaze, just need a little help. Here it is, https://ibb.co/gjJ3Cm
            Can you see it/ It’s tricky. And I’m not walking f,https://ibb.co/dT8LTn.
            How is the weather out there? Looking for vacation rentals now. I need a vacation. If I don’t fall and break my neck on the hoverboard. My skateboarding days are far behind me. 🙂
            Need a key, check out pg. 15 in TToTC. Page with the asterisk. The word “few” is in tight focus with the word “that” in the poem.
            My right triangle is at the 8th clue, light at 5 degrees hitting a 7′ tall stick. 80′ shadow.

  18. I think you may need to cut down on the sprinkles of hints a bit.
    I do like his bathing spot as WWWH but I don’t think it’s a small scale solve otherwise it would have been found.

    It’s amazing how many like this area to start but some get sidetracked and leave the poem at some point.

  19. Hi everybody,
    I agree that the poem should be solved as is without any hints from the books since I don’t see any mention about a bathing spot or a fly fishing spot anywhere in the POEM, period. If you think you can follow the possible trails or actions Fenn mentioned in one of his books to nail down WWWH, you may all be ended up at wrong starting points, IMO, whether the distance from the TC is 10 miles or a couple of miles or even 200 or 500 feet. Sorry to say this, but I would throw out any idea about Ojo Caliente Springs or Baker’s Hole or Madison Junction or Gardiner, etc, and start fresh again from a different viewpoint. If you got one of these WWWH locations deduced somehow from the poem alone, then go for it. But if you got here by a wild guess or possible hints you thought you found in the books you’d better rethink about your solve before you’re on your BOTGs. Just saying it.
    — MajinKing

  20. James, I am spellbound with all the comments and surprised by the great interest and intrigue expressed by the searchers, you see these hints and corresponding comments can go on forever with a good solve like yours. After all the reviews on that stands out and no one caught seems right out of Forrest’s comment here:
    “The most common mistake that I see searchers make is that they underestimate the importance of the first clue. If you don’t have that one nailed down you might as well stay home and play Canasta. f”

    Not anyone has seen the benefit of knowing, or acknowledging that WWWH could be as this….A Basin is where one washes ones face with warm water in the morning, even when you espressed it as the place for your solve did you not see that a basin is where wwwh?

    Since there are so many basins in the Rockies, it would help to perhaps look at a different wwwh. I know where ff got the term, but like so many things Fenn he has put a bit of Tarry Scant spice in the mix, um I mean he changed the meaning from it’s original intent.

    Your solve is a good one and worth pursuing, it could be correct since no one else’s seem to work but you searchers are all thinkin in and outa the box..

    TT

    • Do I mean a box, or did I say basin? Anyway with your keen mind you won’t be boxxed out of this search….good solve James.

      TT

  21. Biscuit basin is a very interesting solve , if we think back to when the SEARCH first begun we only had the POEM , the book TTOTC and a map to find WWWH , not TFTW and most of the information that we have today . So if we throw out everything we have learned and sit down with nothing but the three things FF said we needed to find the chest , WE FEEL LIKE WE HAVE NOTHING . BUT , there are people from all over the U.S. and around the world looking for this treasure and there is one place on the map that`s in the Rocky`s that almost everyone of them have at least heard of , OLD FAITHFUL in YELLOWSTONE NATIONAL PARK . I truly believe thats how the little girl in INDIA was able to figure out the first two clue`s . i am not saying that OLD FAITHFUL is WWWH but all of the hot waters that come up out of the earth at LOWER GYSER BASIN . all that warm water halts as it drains into the FIREHOLE RIVER , and runs down the canyon toward BISCUIT BASIN . like i said , very interesting SOLVE , IMO

  22. I think the following disqualifies the idea of biscuit = home of brown or any other book “hint” of that magnitude. But then again, I have no idea what “help you with the clues” even means.

    ” … read the book again, slowly, with the idea of looking for clues or hints, that are in the book that will help you follow the clues. You can find the chest with just the clues, but there are hints in the book that will help you with the clues.” f

    Mr. Fenn,
    You have said to read the poem and read TTOTC to help solve for the 9 clues. We all know there are many options to choose from regarding, Brown, hoB, wwh,and blaze hinted at in the book.
    My question is, “In the book, do you also, in a more subtle way, tell which is the correct answer to one or all of the above?” ~BW

    No I don’t madam, sorry. f

    mBG

  23. Ya’ll know you can make biscuits with “Bisquick” ???
    Quick, easy, and ready to go in nothing flat.
    Just like mom use to make. (cuz she used Bisquick)

  24. James,
    I believe you are on to something with fire, rust and iron. After looking through TTOTC again, I believe there are numerous hints in TTOTC which I did not see before. Thanks for the insight.

    • No problem. Yeah there’s a lot of things that kind of smack you in the face when you read it slowly.

      Kind of like the multiple references to Canyon St in two different cities. West Yellowstone as well as Santa Fe. Is Canyon St the Canyon down?

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