Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…

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464 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…

  1. We’ve all seen posts like this before, and I’m as skeptical as you will be reading this. But, I think I’ve cracked the poem. The poem, and a few hints in TTOTC lead me to within feet of where I believe the TC to be. It’s a solve like nothing I’ve ever seen published before. I’ll return and report after this weekend. It will either be with pics or with my tail between my legs for my premature hubris.

    • Mibster,
      We’re all confident about our solves, you should be too before you commit to the time and expense of BOTG. It’s only annoying when some newbie doesn’t recognize that there’s a high probability of failure and talks as if there’s only one possible outcome of the trip with their “brilliant solve”. Good luck, then come back and with stories to entertain us regardless of how things go.

      • BOTG Saturday, will report Sunday.

        JDA – thanks, you’re a gentleman and a scholar.

        New Chaser – Yellowstone would be the last place I’d go.
        Tall Andrew – whether its right or wrong (probably wrong) the poem according to my solve actually does reveal an exact place that would be about 30-50 feet long.

        JW – Even though I started searching last summer, I wouldn’t consider myself a “newbie. I’ve had my share of failed BOTG’s (8 to be exact) until I had an “aha” moment this summer.

        I’m not trying to be an arrogant prick. We (searchers) all just get a little excited. I know my post doesn’t contribute anything. Sometimes, we just don’t have anyone (who cares) in the family to talk to, and the forums are all we have.

        • Mibster, I agree with quite a bit of what you said. I feel like there are not a lot of people to talk to except the forum community. Even then, many (including myself) hold on to our solves enough to where my thirst for productive discussion isn’t quenched. That is partially why I don’t post much…nothing productive to post. Good luck on your BOTG! I I will be heading out myself in 3 weeks, totally dependent on you coming back with a light backpack 😉

          • Neal, best of luck and stay safe! It takes a lot of planning and expense to pull off a BOTG. I’ve found the highest cost to be relationship strain, my wife curses the day I heard the name “Forrest Fenn.”

          • Well Neal, you’re safe to go. While I still believe in my solve I had some technical difficulties and only made it to within 10 miles of my 30 foot search area. 9th BOTG, but first trying to get to this spot. It’s definitely a learning experience. It will have to be another day. I have a 7 hour drive to my spot and had to abort and drive home, gotta go back to work tomorrow at the real job.

          • Thanks Neal, better luck to you in 3 weeks!! Please, put an end to the madness and find it already.

          • Best of luck Neal and sorry you couldn’t get to your spot Mibster, but glad you sided with caution. Seems like you’ll have another opp. which is more fun than injury. 🙂
            I’m going out next week w/ my husband for our 25th anniversary trip. I’m the enthusiast. He’s placating me :). I swore to myself after this trip I would stop obsessing. but I have a feeling my self-promise is going to be broken. This is too much fun!

      • When I go get the treasure I plan on putting it in my own museum. And sharing it. I also plan on helping a dear person with it.
        I’m in it to win it! Much Love!

    • Hi Mibster,
      you are very self-confident searcher if you can say you solution of “the poem, and a few hints in TTOTC lead me to within feet of where I believe the TC to be”. Usually I’m very happy when my solution brings me within miles around TC 🙂
      Anyway, I like your self-confidence and wish you good luck in your BOTG. BTW, I see the chase as very interesting brain exercise/training and each BOTG as new adventures. So, I never return home “with my tail between my legs for my premature hubris”. When your solution failed it should inspire you for more intensive brain storming of TTOTC book and poem. Forrest said it will be difficult but not impossible to crack poem riddle and find TC. He gave us more than enough hints during these 9 years.

    • “Oh how bloody exciting! (looks in the mirror and adjusts her tiara while speaking). I just adore it when a treasure searcher says they’ve ‘cracked the poem’.
      Do be a dear and phone me if you find it will you? I have a large amount of cash at my disposal, and I could pay you handsomely. No one need know that you actually were the one to find it (sips from a teacup and winks).
      It would be ‘our little secret’ so to speak.

      I will be visiting the States this September as a matter of fact. I will be flying into Tulsa, Oklahoma to check out another idea, so I am certain you can successfully contact me.

      Just out of curiosity, does anyone know of a good Car rental agency I could use after I arrive in Tulsa?

      Oh well, no matter. I am sure we shall survive. (takes another sip of tea and adds a spoonful of sugar). Hoping to hear from you soon dear one, do not tarry. Cheers to all! “

      —-Queen Elizabeth

      • Hello Sparrow. Just got in from a damp weekend of camping and after reading your post, a smile came over my face and made the weekend cheery. 🙂

        • I’ve just been wondering if Queen Elizabeth is camping or if she has found better accomidations? Is it possible to have a proper English Tea around a campfire. Does she treasure hunt herself while wearing the tiara, or does she have staff to search for her? She probably could avoid that annoying car rental if she brings her horse with her, as I know she likes to ride. Hopefully she will share photos of her adventure so we can see how it goes.

          • “Flutterby, Camping is dreadful. It’s bloody cold and uncomfortable. And who wants to hear high-pitched buzzing sounds by their ears all night, followed by little irritating bites on the arms and legs? Not me. But do proceed with YOUR adventures if you must. Cheers!!”

            —Queen Elizabeth

  2. This might have been discussed before, if so, disregard. In the Newsweek report by Tony Dokoupil on 8/20/12, his photographer published a picture of FF. The photographer was Brent Humphreys. The caption for the photo states, Forrest Fenn photographed near his buried treasure and Santa Fe. https://brenthumphreys.com/Fenn
    Any thoughts on this?

      • Fennschui,
        You addressed a valid question regarding the Doukoupoli caption. Doubtful that the reporter cleared that caption with ff.

        Here’s my take/guess:
        1. The “trove” of objects & Romanesque box advertised in TTOTC are hidden in New Mexico.
        2. FF considers his “treasure(s)” to mean something other than the box.
        2. Title, gold, trove, treasure, etc hold separate and differing meanings to ff and within his poem.

    • What do they know that we don’t? Now that I’m sure is fake news. LoL! Where’s the write up about finding the chest?

    • Fennshui-
      In the follow-up to that story Tony Dokoupil leads readers on the trail of his personal solution…to his likely spot where the chest is hidden…turns out to be Ojo Caliente in Yellowstone…So the same story has two conclusions about where the chest is located…
      But typically the photo captions are written by an editor after the story is submitted…so the editor probably didn’t read Tony’s solution…

      There is so much manure in that 2012 story…It was great for attracting folks to the chase but for fact finding it is just terrible…
      Forrest ended up writing the publisher of Newsweek complaining about Dokoupil’s inaccurate quotes..Shortly after that Newsweek went under and Dokoupil was working for The Daily Beast…hmmmmm

      There were several stories written by Dokoupil about Forrest…He seems to be bitter about Forrest when he started writing for Daily Beast…
      Read these stories to see:
      1. Just how angry Dokoupil was after leaving Newsweek (his stories read like a vendetta)
      2. How he decides the chest is in Yellowstone

      Also note that although Dokoupil wrote those stories in 2013…he went back and edited them to what they are today…in 2017…
      What’s that all about…???




    • I wonder if a photo exists of when f hid the chest? I’m thinking if I were the one hiding it, it might be fun to snap a few photos for prosperity. Of course, if f did take any pictures we would likely never know. I could just imagine the grin on his face after he made it back to his car!!


  3. It has been over 3 years of studying this poem intently and some casual searches. Just wanted to share how completely thrilled I am to be doing an intense search that is so much fun! Since I have to come home with the TC in order to prove that I’ve solved the poem, I’m happy to do that if I can. But, for me, the intrique is the solving of the poem. Feeling confident, and having fun!

  4. What has this 9 years taught us about the search, the Thrill of this Chase? I wanted to start out by saying I have been at this since 2012, I live just south of Santa Fe, NM in the bite of the scissors, or as it is pronounced in Spanish, “Tijeras, NM”. I say this because I have had many opportunities and have taken many “Botas sobre el terreno” and if Indulgence is in New Mexico some of the mother tongue, perhaps some Native American Language would be somewhere in the poem in some form, because, that’s who we are, it has been said New Mexico is like a quilt work of people and understanding us is like this, imagine you have a blonde headed blue eyed person living in La Madera, NM who speaks perfect Spanish, and their ancestors had come from Spain and Mexico and migrated as with most Spanish/Mexican Families and settled along the river valleys, Rio Grande, Gila, Pecos, etc, the pattern of them called “patrones de colchas” then you have the Anglo/American who came in along the Santa Fe Trail, Chisholm trail, Goodnight Loving, Pecos Trail, etc, they settled along these trails and formed very different communities, but the original Natives were actually along the mesas and mountains, like Taos, Quari, Zuni, Zia, Jemez, etc the point I am trying to make here is that in the big picture of the poem, and it is a big picture we have not seen except through our imignation, but if you listen to NM True video and hear ff speak of “Special Place” as if he were standing there looking out for the nearest objects, he states that you would see TREES, mountains, animals and at the beginning he does not say in the beginning what type of Trees, then he goes on naming objects and later to admit in the video that he said something he wishes he had not said?

    If Aspen Trees were the FIRST TREES he spoke of and then he later mentioned smelling Pine needles and “Pinon Nuts” The type of Trees perhaps was one Freudian slip of those was that the mistake, did he misspeak, or was sayin the TC was wet?

    You be the judge….https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJBakBqwQVs…. listen at 1:50 into it.

    Since no one seems to have found Indulgence yet, I often think that it is what is not said or mentioned that is important in the search, perhaps the reason the first 2 clues were located but not truly understood is simple, what if we look at the simplest explanation, that is start with the first clue, WWWH which is not some words Forrest invented, not those exact words have been around since before fenn admitted they were the first clue, so if it is not hot water, but warm water we commonly see warm waters halt in the basin each morning when we wash our face and or shave, perhaps this sounds to simple, but since no one seems to get past 1,2, and maybe 3? How has that simple solution coming into focus? It describes a place called HOME, as in Lodging as where beavers live? Do kids understand this pretty well? I think only an “otter” would have gotten more attention than a beaver lodge, so follow the simple rule, Home of Brown might be related to a beaver lodge, is it a dam? Is it a structure?

    Should it be ruled out? Listen to what ff had to say in comments about how searchers might pick him apart later, I will let you find it yourself but it is there. Is Indulgence in a Beaver Dam, No I don’t think so but if you are brave and in the wood, what is a beaver home made of? MUD WOOD AND what type of trees are their favorite? Look it up and rethink the KISS Principle to simplify that Special Place.


    • But he said a place that is dear. Instead of Beaver lodge, shouldn’t it be Deer Lodge? Lol, we don’t know, I like both examples really.

      I’m a firm believer that the chest is hidden within a “seek-no-further” tree. Which means a fallen tree with bushes and sediment, and other trees all around it, via Eric Sloane.

      But back to the lodge, he did say a place to rest his bones. Could be home, casa, hotel, motel, LODGE, tent, who knows. I like Lodge.

    • Hi Tom,
      don’t forget that the place/area/object coded by Forrest in the poem as “the hoB” should be there during hundreds or even thousands years. Beaver homes are not so long-living objects.

    • TT, you do know how long in general a Beaver lodge and Beaver dam last in general, correct? (capitalized for your benefit) being of wood and mud. and why they are constantly repairing them, also that the course of a river is changed several times over the course of a 100 years, mainly due to flooding which wipes out current dams and lodges… and the lakes that current dams form.

      also this, not HOB, but fairly clear that it is not part of the clues:

      FENN: But I’ll tell you I think I made a mistake. I think it was on Dal’s blog. I told somebody that the clue – part – a dam was not part of the clues.

      EEDS: Okay.

      FENN: “Where warm waters halt” is one of the clues and they – a lot of people figured that’s where water is letting out of a dam.

      EEDS: What about a beaver dam?

      FENN: That’s a dam.

      EEDS: Okay.

      FENN: That’s no clue.

    • Dunno how beavers got brought into this approach to solving the poem . . .
      although they are known for having paddles.

  5. Tom Terrific, I like the “Home” concept and I’ll expand on that.
    So I’ve been silent for sometime, but I think I may have found Forrest’s Legacy and would like to share my thought process. What is the Big Picture, to me the Big Picture is to prevent our Warm Waters to Halt (death). So it starts with his making of the TTOTC book. Remember how he stressed the binding in the book. Now Focus, what elements are binded that can help us prevent death. It’s simple, it’s Proteins. Forrest created this hunt to get us away from our computers and talking machines. These machines can do a lot of good if we are away from them in the development of creating stronger proteins. When Forrest was a teenager he became an avid (pro) fisherman, this is one of the first things we have read about him, he became a pro-teen. So thanks to Susie Fennhaven and her awesome videos on this chase I was able to decipher what I believe is going to be the key to solving this hunt. Forrest’s Rosetta Stone, I was researching a Cancer chat site and came across Rosetta@Home. You download Rosetta@Home and the great thing about it is that it uses your computer/phones to help process reconfigurations of proteins when your not using them, How Simple. These reconfigurations are then tested in laboratories to make stronger proteins to help fight/cure some of the worst deadly diseases known to man or animals. Rosetta@Home is in 3 different languages, just like the Rosetta Stone was. But it gets better, remember how the map was included in TFTW and that Forrest says the treasure is on the map.
    Why was the map so big, why was it FOLDED. The key is the fold. Through Rosetta@Home you can join the Fold.it group. In this Fold.it group your goal is to fold proteins to make them more compact, to make them more compact, to eliminate water from entering them, halt the warm water. You must “Twist” the proteins to see the spacing. Humans are better than computers at doing this. If you do research on players in the fold.it group your going to find almost all of Forrest’s story names, nicknames and even pictures of Forrest’s clues from there profiles. There are even 6 players named Forestlegacy with different letters
    To end their names. Did you ever notice Forrest’s signature, in cursive, it’s really only one r, not two. So how do you find the chest through all of this, I don’t have this answer. Through the groups that are formed in Fold.it, checkout the profiles of these groups and a lot of them are also tied to Forrest’s stories. The carving on the stick Forrest has looks like the group UUelcomes image, you’ll see fiber=money, Bubblegum. Check out dinyar player profile, stickman with a “me” and an arrow pointed at it. That was a recent clue Forrest posted. Checkout player profile Grammer Merchant profile pic, a pie with a pie symbol in it.
    I could go on and on, Fenn, Mr.Fenn, Marvin’s bunch etc…. all diifferent profiles. So if you believe in Forrest’s legacy I believe you should download Rosetta@home and add Fold.it. What’s the worst that can happen, it might cost you a few cents in electricity. So the ODDS increase to find the END of Cancer, Dimentia, and hundreds of other deadly/debilitating diseases the more people join. If you believe in this theory then I need some help, I’ve downloaded Rosetta@Home but it doesn’t seem to be giving me credit. I’ve also downloaded Fold.it into ICloud but when I go to files and click it, it downloads again but I don’t know how to open it to play it. I’m 52 years old and not very computer savvy, please help.

    • RMT,
      This is very much within the bounds of specialized knowledge. Protein structure/folding is a specialized area within protein chemistry, within organic chemistry, etc. I haven’t noticed anything in Forrest’s comments that indicates a knowledge of protein chemistry. It’s interesting that there are a number of usernames that could be chase related, but maybe it’s just an indication that people who like one type of puzzle (the chase) are also attracted to another puzzle like protein folding.

      FYI Fold-it isn’t as easy to play as they make it sound. It helps to have some knowledge of chemistry, but you can also learn just by playing. I did install Fold-it a few years ago and if memory serves there are instructions for installation on each type of operating system on their website (though I might be getting it confused with Skyline, another UW proteomics tool). It was complex enough that you might need to get someone more computer literate to help. Also the Baker lab runs a forum on Fold-it that has threads on installation and some good advice on how to get started, https://fold.it/portal/forum/5 . Good luck with this and have fun. It’s not for everyone but I know a few people who really like it.

      • Thanks JW, I’ll keep trying, yes it’s probably specialized knowledge but sounds so interesting I would love to try it. Baby Steps to start.

  6. A couple of random questions that I’m hoping someone can point me in the right direction to find the answers. I don’t remember where FF talked about where he won the bracelet in the poker game. I recall that he mentioned who owned it previously. Where can I find that info?

    Secondly; I know someone asked him once what dictionary he used. What was his answer?

    Thanks in advance if anyone can point me to these answers.

    • The bracelet info is in the Moby Dickens Interview from 2013. You can watch the video or there is a transcript on this blog:
      Forrest says:
      “I wanted that treasure chest to be part of me. I wanted … If I’m going to take it with me, I don’t want it to be a bunch of abstract items. I put things in that treasure chest that are very dear to me. One of them, probably the cheapest thing in that treasure chest is a wonderful little bracelet, has 22 prehistoric turquoise beads in it. The beads were found by Richard Wetherill. The first day that he discovered Mesa Verde and climbed down into the ruin from the canyon top. He picked up those 22 little turquoise beads. In 1901, when Richard Wetherill was excavating Mesa Verde, there was an Indian working for him that made a bracelet out of those 22 little turquoise beads, disk beads. They call it a row bracelet. It was made about 1902 or so. When Richard Wetherill sold it to Fred Harvey of the Harvey houses, and years later that whole Harvey collection was given to the Heard Museum in Phoenix.

      I won that bracelet in a pool game with Byron Harvey who was the nephew of Fred Harvey. That’s how I got that bracelet. I have an association. It’s the only Indian bracelet I ever had that fit me. I used to walk down the street showing off that bracelet. It’s worth about $350. It was special to me.”

    • Flutterby – Found this in a post without quotes around it:

      Once I… I hated… I’m not a good writer and I struggle, and I’m inefficient. And, for that reason, I make up a lot of rules to protect myself. In each of my 10 books, I’ve made up words, and I look in the dictionary to make sure the word isn’t there. My argument is, that if the reader knows exactly what I mean than who cares what the word is? Where am I wrong? And so that idiosyncrasy of human nature manifests itself in myself very vividly in those respects. I corrupt words a lot.

      Was that Forrest, Dal??? If so, was that a verbal quote? And where and when did Forrest say that?

      No specific dictionary is mentioned.

        • Dal – Thank you!

          In your first interview link, Forrest mentions having written 8 books, and he mentions having written 9 books in the second link. So, I deduced that the quote in question was stated after TFTW was published, which I verified by reading the story from May 2018 by John R. (under which that comment with said quote was posted):


          Betcha someone can find a later interview, during which Forrest said that exact quote. But you proved Forrest’s general philosophy about using dictionaries, so I don’t think it is very important to do so.

          • You don’t think it is very important to use dictionaries??

            I sure do. I looked up “halt”, “warm”, “waters”, and many
            other words that I thought I was very familiar with already.

            In the context of this treasure hunt, a dictionary can be
            quite important, useful, educational, and entertaining —
            not to mention trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent. I’m surprised “honest” wasn’t mentioned
            before this sentence. As always, IMO.

          • For Tall Andrew — MW Q&A (9/5/2017):
            “Hello Mr. Fenn, For those of us that do not speak a lick of Spanish, would a Spanish to English dictionary be helpful in our search for your treasure chest? Thanks, John”

            FF: “You should not need to look any words up John. Good luck. f”

        • We know FF likes to “bend” words. Curious if anyone wants to share words they have come across that they suspect are bent. I will start. I believe the word “bold” is bent in the poem. I’m also quite certain
          that “attributed” is bent. “I wish I could have lived to do the things I’ve been attributed to”.

        • Hi Flutterby: here are a few words that Forrest has “bent”:

          TTOTC pg. 12: “Some women were sniffering and others were just grinning.”

          SB 122: “Necessity wets the wits of the inexperienced and that meant I had to move quickly.” Should be whets.

          SB 179 (and OUAW pg. 21): “That’s okay with me because our composing modes are diabolically opposed to each other.” Should be diametrically.

    • http://mysteriouswritings.com/questions-with-forrest-fenn-and-the-thrill-of-the-chase/

      “In your dictionary, what’s an aberration? ~Serge Teteblanche
      I don’t have a dictionary but my personal definition is “Something different.” I like that word.” f

      He also said this later on in the same post:

      Dear Mr. Fenn,
      The definitions of words seem to interest you. What dictionary, and year of dictionary, do you use for looking up words? ~ wordsmith
      Interesting that you would ask that Mr./Mz Wordsmith.
      I don’t use dictionaries anymore. I just type the word in Google for a faster response. It’s fun to make up words and play with different spellings. When someone calls me out after noticing the corruption of a word I use, I just smile, especially when I say something that in my mind is correct but in an academic sense it’s a horrible malfunction.
      For instance, emblazoned upon some of the bronze bells I’ve buried are the words, “Imagination is more important than knowlege.” If I had spelled that last word correctly it would not have had the profundity of meaning I wanted. To misspell the word emphasized my point that having knowledge is, in fact, not as important as being resourceful. Also, when I make a mistake through ignorance that ploy gives me a degree of deniability that I routinely need.
      Now I will test you Wordsmith. Write down the full definition of the word “several.” Then Google it and learn that many of us don’t fully understand some of the words we use every day.”f

      Hope this helps – JDA

      • JDA – Thank you for sharing that quote!

        When Forrest wrote, “full definition”, I immediately thought of the etymology of words, and the ‘archaic’ meaning, often shown in online dictionaries I find by searching Google. I don’t think the hard bound printed, older versions of dictionaries, like Merriam-Webster, feature word etymologies. But I don’t have one to refer to, either.

        Anyone know that answer? Can anyone look up ‘several’ to investigate?

  7. I would rather cling to the definition of water on Wikipedia to find the real location of the WWWH. If you find out what this BIG PICTURE is, you’ll know immediately where to start. Also all these are related to the home of Brown of course.
    — MajinKing

  8. Hi All;

    I have been considering the line: “Just heavy loads and water high.” I think, that without exception, Forrest places only one physical clue per line in the poem, with the exception of both “Heavy Loads and “Water High” – each of which could be a physical something – maybe a physical clue. “Just” can mean only – Indicating the possibility of both “things” being one “thing” or place…

    So, since they are both mentioned in one line, is it possible that both “Heavy Loads” and “Water High” are located at the same physical location? Imagine for a moment, a stream flowing down hill. There are a series of boulders in this stream. Would it be possible for the heavy boulders to be the “Heavy Loads” and the torrential stream to be the “Water High”?

    Has anyone else ever wondered this, or does anyone have this type of situation in their solve? Just curious.

    Just a ponderin’ and a thinkin’ – JDA

    • Hi JDA,

      Your thoughts are concurrent with mine. My BOTG coming up in Sept has “Heavy Loads and Water High” as a cascading creek that is very steep and has large rock formations. No way to paddle up it.

      I’ll know in a month if I’m correct. 😉


    • Hi JDA,

      My thoughts are concurrent with yours. My “Heavy Loads and Water High” for my BOTG in September is a steep cascading creek with large rock formations. Definitely no paddle up this creek.

      I will let you know if I am correct after September. 😉


    • Good question JDA. My personal solve is the same creek, but it’s more of the name of the creek vs the physical attributes to it. Of course I won’t say the name of it :p This verse is definitely one of the harder ones to interpret because it could be taken in so many ways.

    • This past winter I came to the conclusion that “Just heavy loads and water high” is one clue where both things are close together up your creek and posted here.
      “Just” I agree means “only” and also means the chest is not here.

      The next line in the poem also is split by the “and” but I think that there are 2 clues “been wise” and “found the *blaze”. We know “the blaze” is one of the clues and seems likely the last.
      The past tense of this line indicates you went thru this “wise” area and went past the “blaze” to see and confirm there are “Just heavy loads and water high” further up your creek but no treasure.

      • I agree Jake that it is possible for both things to be close together.

        Where I am considering, does not match the last paragraph of your post though. My Blaze is above my HL&WH, and the TC below the HL&WH – I think 🙂 JDA

        • The blaze could be “above” HLAWH in elevation but not past HLAWH. The way I read it logically is the blaze is not further up your creek past HLAWH and is also not at HLAWH.
          Read those 2 lines again over and over and dissect what they are really saying.

          This “past tense” line in the poem should be read correctly and tells me you went past the “blaze” and the treasure.
          You must have “been” there done that for it to work, what the poem says.

          You will get it later as you usually do.

          • Hi Jake;

            In the past, I would have agreed with you. Today, I am not so sure. The past tense could mean that you SAW the blaze earlier, and have left your viewing spot and headed towards HL&WH. We had seen, from a distance that the BLAZE was physically above HL&WH in elevation. We look quickly down, below the blaze – and lower still – below HL&WH.

            Tarry Scant and Marvel Gaze now plays a part.

            Can’t say too much more. I feel that I AM following the poem, even if it displays itself a bit different than the usual read – Who knows? JDA

          • I know it’s very difficult to do and I’ve said it before many times, don’t even think about your solve or your places applied to the poem. Just read, think and most importantly-understand what exactly the poem is saying in these 2 lines.
            If for a split second you think about your place(s) applied to these lines in the poem, you will automatically be biased in your interpretation on how it really is supposed to be read.

            We need to know how to read the poem first (crawl).

            Then we can marry our places to the poem to see if it fits and if they don’t fit, then either your interpretation on how to read the poem was wrong so the places and things at places are also wrong.

            You need to crawl before you can walk, and as far as I can see this seems to be the biggest mistake most make along with keep changing your interpretation to mold it to your area. A big no no in my book.

          • Hi Jake;

            Thanks for your sage words. I honestly do not think that I am molding it to my area. I am carefully reading the poem and seeing where it leads me. The first half of the poem is a visual journey – bo BotG.

            “Just take the chest and go in peace” is the line that tells me to change from a visual search (Solve) to a BotG physical search (solve).

            The remainder of the poem tells me where to go and what to look for once I go to the places that I have viewed.

            Just how I read the poem now – JDA

          • I’m not sure I see your idea where the visual reading starts and the physical area starts in the poem.
            Are you reading the same poem?

            You say: “The first half of the poem is a visual journey – bo (no) BotG”

            So, after 3 stanzas you pluck out of thin air that the poem is no longer visual? I don’t see it in the poem. maybe you can point it out for me.

            What if the poem can be solved visually and physically?
            I think it can but you will still need BOTG to finish.

            I think Seekers “visual” concept distorted your thinking even more. You need to silence all the noise and think for yourself and read and understand what is being said in the poem first and I don’t see you and most doing that.

            Strange how some keep changing their interpretations over and over many times instead of a tweak or 2, which tells me they are desperate in their area and don’t have any really solid idea where the treasure or where the clues are.

          • Jake;

            Yes, I am borrowing ideas from Seeker, because they made sense to me. Like Seeker said, “Begin it WWWsH and ‘take it in’… “Take it in” can mean to take in the view, and that is what I do. I carefully examine the view from my WWWsH spot. I take in the canyon, I take in hoB etc. I spot my blaze – I look quickly down and find the area where I think Indulgence is secreted. Only then, do I move from my WWWsH spot to a place below my HL&WH.

            I put BotG and go there and I will then look where the poem tells me where to look – So yes, I do both – I do a visual search and FIND things visually, and then I put BotG and go to those spots. It MAY work, or it MAY not.

            Your way, and my OLD way, don’t seem to be working, so why not try something new. Don’t they say that insanity is doing the same thing over and over, but expecting a different result? I am tired of doing an insane thing (doing the same old thing over and over) and expecting things to magically change. Maybe I AM crazy, but what the heck, it keeps me from going insane – or so the song says – 🙂 JDA

          • OK, I’ll put in terms you can relate to.
            You’re a sculpter.

            If you start with the wrong chunk of stone, what results are you going to get?

            You need to know the stone (poem) before you chisell anything away. Right?

            If you’re chiselling away at the wrong stone then what will you end up with?

      • Jake & JDA,

        Sorry for butting into your debate, but I enjoyed reading what you each had to say about understanding the words of the poem. I have found a place in WY where you would have to use JDA’s approach to find the treasure, because you start up on a cliff with a broad view of the valley floor below, and you can easily spot the blaze. But once you head down from your WWWH location and into the valley you are surrounded by trees and the blaze is now hidden from view. So you would have to have been wise and found the blaze (visually) before setting off BOTG beyond the first clue You would use the later clues to navigate to the blaze once below and in the wood.

        IMHO I see searchers too set in their ideas about what a clue must mean and that restricts their ability to follow the poem. If you convince yourself that clue #4 or 5 must mean “X”, but you don’t even know if your WWWH is correct, you are taking a huge chance you will one day discover the correct WWWH but reject it outright because of your entrenched ideas about what later clues MUST mean. Example: if I am convinced that heavy loads and water high is a dam, I will reject all areas that do not have a dam. And if I am wrong, I will never find WWWH because I am obsessing about a dam that is not in the poem. Think that is why clue #1 must be nailed down.

        • Schrodinger—
          Thanks for your post. You stated a couple of very important things in my opinion. All the best to you!

    • I think the highlight behind Mary is also a nive combination of heavy loads and water high, drawing nigh (a draw), no paddle, and looks similar to what is decribed in the Lewis and Clark segment of TTOTC.

    • JDA,
      I believe that “heavy loads and water high” are a single thing that is both “heavy loads and water high”. I will give you an example. I once believed that the answer was a cloud. A cloud is both heavy loads and water high. I do not believe that heavy loads and water high are two separate things. I also believe that the word “just” is referring to balance or equalness. All my opinion of course.

      • Flutterby – I disagree. From the Merriam-Webster online dictionary:

        several adjective
        sev·​er·​al | \ ˈsev-rəl , ˈse-və-\
        Definition of several (Entry 1 of 2)
        1a : separate or distinct from one another

        The etymology is Medieval-French, first used in the 15th century, from the Latin, separalis: to separate.

        I google the online meanings, using Merriam-Webster. Does Forrest?

        • I only meant that I could not look up the meaning in my old PRINTED copy that used to sit on the shelf, because my kids took it off to college.

          I use google also. Best way to get multiple meanings of words IMO.

          Thanks for sharing definitions of “several”

        • Flutterby – From this great interview Forrest did with Jennifer London (@10:45):


          LONDON: But you didn’t answer my question, who is Brown?
          FENN: Well, that’s for you to find. If I told you that, you’d go right to the chest.

          Marry the clues to a map. The giant Brown trout on my online topo map is located across from Barns Hole #1, just upstream. I need a dinghy for my camping gear and the proper high waisted and belted fly fishing waders. For the ‘water high’ of those deep green bends of the Madison River, as I “go right to the chest”, with my ‘heavy loads’, at Baker’S Hole (formerly aka Brown’s Camp on that 1912 map, drawn by Fred M. Brown, Gallatin County Surveyor. ‘Who’ is ‘that’?).

          “that’s for you to find” > ‘that•S’ is for you to find?

          So why is ‘IT’ ‘that’ I must go…

          In tight focus with a word ‘that’ is key…

          All IMO.

    • IMO, and according to my current solve process, one of the two isn’t a clue at all, but collectively they serve to give you confidence that you are on the right pathway. Thought of in this manner, your premise that “Forrest places only one physical clue per line” is affirmed if the JHLAWH were the only exception on your plate.

    • Sure JDA. I don’t see why not. Could be a high elevation lake and boulders, or maybe once had a dam, etc… The presentation of that line seems to confirm that they will be together.

    • JDA- yes heavy loads and waters high is a place – but you don’t do anything or have to stop there for anything – for me its just a place that you have to know what it means- and that to me tells me what direction -I go to the blaze

      • You don’t need to go to the blaze, but finding it is important.
        This can be done without BOTG, but confirmation while BOTG is pretty
        exciting. As always, IMO.

        • Tall Andrew- for me its the same with wwwh hob – heavy loads, waters high – the blaze, are places you don’t need to put botg to find them- you can do it on GE at home and go right passed them, until you have to start your botg at in the wood. the rest of the clues you just have to know what and where they are, they will lead you to the TC

  9. I posted several times that you should consider the tense of the lines more seriously. You should read the lines in the consecutive order. This does not mean that you are to follow the lines as written, but you should read them in the correct order as the tense dictates regardless of the position of the lines in the poem.

    Thus “no paddle creek” and “heavy loads and water high” should come after the line which says “if you’ve been wise and found the blaze” IMO. And NPC and HL and WH are just additional descriptions for the trail you have to follow from below the HOB to the BLAZE, IMHO.

    I guarantee that if you try to find the locations for HL and WH before you find the blaze you’ll never find the TC, ever. I wish I am wrong, but there is no other explanation for the different tense of the lines than what I’m proposing.

    Good luck for all searchers on the BOTG in a couple of months, but I am pretty certain that anybody who are looking for HL and WH will not be able to find the TC, IMO. Just saying……

    — MajinKing

    • Majin King- the reason you have to find HL and Wh from Hob is because it tells you- which way you go- to find the blaze – and the TC – first its – HL and Wh and then the blaze in the wood then the Tc

  10. MajinKing;
    Here are Forrest’s instructions as to how to solve the poem:


    “There are nine clues in the poem, and the clues are in consecutive order. If you want to find the treasure chest – you have my book there – I’ll tell you how to do it. Read the book just normally … the poem and the rest of the book, and then go back and read the poem 6, 8, 10 times – study every line, every word. Then after you do that, read the book again, slowly, with the idea of looking for clues or hints, that are in the book that will help you follow the clues. You can find the chest with just the clues, but there are hints in the book that will help you with the clues.” f
    He says: “There are nine clues in the poem, and the clues are in consecutive order. ” No where does he say anything about tense and using tense as a way to read and solve the poem. Sorry guy, I will follow the instructions of the guy that wrote the poem, rather than your approach – but good luck to Ya’ JDA

    • What do you mean “using tense”? And why would tense be an outside the poem instruction from f if different tenses are used in the poem?

      • FD;

        My post was in response to MajinKiongs post just above mine. I didn’t hit the “reply” button – My bad. MajinKing feels that the poem should be read following the tenses. (If I remember correctly, one should:) Put all past tense lines together, then all present tense lines together then all future tense lines together – then solve the poem in this order, To me he/she is “messin’ with the poem and not following Forrest’s instructions. JDA

    • Oh, and these two statements are at odds with each other…

      “You can find the chest with just the clues,”

      If in 500 years all a person has is the poem, and no back story: they don’t know “in the rocky mountains north of santa fe” or that there are 9 clues etc. Could a person reasonably just use the words in the poem and find your treasure chest? Thank you ~Nope

      Thank you Nope. Nope

        • One you can find the tc with “just” the clues…which we know are only in the poem.

          The next one you can’t even though you are using the same poem.

          What’s your take?

          • FD;
            My take is this: Once you know the back story, the poem can be solved using only the poem, but one needs to know a couple of things first.
            1) The poem is about a hidden treasure (Although this might be deduced from the poem – ,,”And leave my trove for all to seek.” and “I give you title to the gold.”
            2) That the treasure is somewhere in the Rocky Mountains 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe.
            3) Is within the four states – NM, CO, WY or MT

            Poem could be solved without knowing #2 or #3, but it would be monumentally harder if there were no limiting restrictions.. JMO – JDA

          • JDA, then f shouldn’t have said “You can find the chest with just the clues”.

            And it would be monumentally hard without limiting restrictions but they are not required. The Chase is monumentally hard with them.

      • Forrest Fenn could not anticipate all the questions that would be thrown at him over the years. “I tried to think of everything”. So he too has had to adjust One cannot simply use the words in the poem and magically walk out their door to the treasure, they need to know “where” they are going, they need a map.

        And Forrest’s most recent advice to new searchers is an example of his adjustments: “I would advise new searchers to look for the clues in my poem and try to marry them to a place on a map.” (paraphrased)

        So the basic required items, in my opinion, are the poem and a map. Everything else can only be helpful, but are not required.


        • It’s not a new adjustment by f. Maps have been part of his good research materials for many years.

          And f has said if you need help with the clues then go to a source that isn’t on your list…TTOTC. I figure nearly all of us searchers need help with the clues.

          • There is a clear distinction between research material and that which is required to find the treasure. And while Forrest admits that the subtle clues and or hints in the book can be helpful they seem to be more of a hinderance that lead searchers down a myriad of rabbit holes that they believe confirm their solves. And my experience has taught me that just sticking with the words in the poem is the best way to mitigate, not eliminate, confirmation bias.


          • And your gonna have to sight where Forrest said that if you need to help to then go to a source that isn’t on your list….TTOTC. as I don’t believe I have ever seen that said. And maybe you could clarify what you mean by that.

          • There is a clear distinction between highlighting something for new searchers and making an ‘adjustment’.

            As I said, f says that the hints help with the clues. I think nearly everyone would raise their hand if asked if they need help with the clues. That action there inflicts “necessity”.

          • the point about good research materials isn’t about one of them (maps) being different than that which is required to find the tc. It’s about your point that maps is a new ‘adjustment’ which they aren’t.

            If you need help with the clues, then that’s what the hints are for. The hints are found in TTOTC.

          • The adjustment is that he didn’t include TTOTC in that statement, just the poem and a map. That was his adjusted advice to new searchers.

          • It’s your opinion that it’s adjustment advice. I say it’s what he decided to highlight that day. Highlight and adjust are two different things.

            It doesn’t take away from f’s “best” advice which is what I have covered.

          • It’s your opinion that it’s adjustment advice. It’s my opinion that’s what he decided to highlight that day. Highlight and adjust are two different things.

            It doesn’t take away from f’s “best” advice which is what I have covered.

        • Seannm, you’ve said it’s your opinion that f has ‘adjusted’ his advice recently to new searchers when you quoted f saying this: I would advise new searchers to look for the clues in my poem and try to marry them to a place on a map. (paraphrased) (Dal- I’m not providing link to this quote as I think Seannm should have done that, with the date, above in his OP.)

          Like I said earlier, I don’t think this is ‘adjustment’ advice as maps have been a part of the Chase for many years. Here’s earlier advice from f (note the year):

          7/6/2014 Mysterious Writings.com

          Forrest, you talk about the clues being difficult to solve (opposite being easy) yet that the solutions are simple (opposite being complex). Yet when I read the stories of other searchers, I often think that their solutions to the clues tend to be either easy solutions or made out to be very complex and over-thought. Are there any suggestions you would give in approaching the clues and solving them? Craig

          Craig, there is no substitute for thinking and planning and observing and looking at maps, unless it’s the desire to keep it simple. f

          • “Craig, there is no substitute for thinking and planning and observing and looking at maps, unless it’s the desire to keep it simple. f”

            A desire to KEEP IT SIMPLE. Perhaps that is what Mr. Fenn is really trying to say here. Something even a child would understand. (JIMHO)

      • Hi FD,
        definitely all searchers need additional hints that are buried in TTOTC. Forrest specially mentioned it:
        “There are nine clues in the poem, but if you read the book (TTOTC), there are a couple…there are a couple of good hints and there are a couple of aberrations that live out on the edge.” Moby Dickens Book Shop 34:41 mark
        So, to solve some poem clues (maybe 4 of them) we need to find 2 hints and 2 aberrations in TTOTC. Of course, there are many other hints that Forrest gave us during last 9 years but I think that the hints in TTOTC are most important.

        • I agree. It’s just about analyzing what f has said. Some are hung up on the exact quotes of f and can’t analyze what a simple statement like “The hints help with the clues” means if they are stuck on the clues. One must take a leap of reasoning and self inflection to realize, yeah, I do need help with the clues. That means TTOTC book time along with the poem.

        • The hints are not “needed” as you say. Never has Forrest ever said that one needs to find the subtle clues and or hints in the book, in order to find the treasure or understand the poem. Forreat has only said that they can help one with the clues. In fact he has said that one could find the treasure with just the clues. So that implies that one doesn’t “need” the hints.


          • I have never said the hints are “needed”. Please don’t generalize what I have said and put quotes around words I haven’t used.

          • It sounds like you think since f has mentioned different advice at different times that only the last time he has given advice matters, or eclipses his previous advice on things.

            I don’t think that and that’s ok.

          • “In fact he has said that one could find the treasure with just the clues. So that implies that one doesn’t “need” the hints.”

            That would mean your comments above about maps being required doesn’t jive. You can’t gave it both ways.

          • Well, maybe I said it:
            “to solve some poem clues (maybe 4 of them) we need to find 2 hints and 2 aberrations in TTOTC.” It was IMO conclusion.
            I agree that maybe some searchers can find TC with just poem’s clues i.e. without reading of TTOTC. Definitely I don’t belong to this group that possess such extraordinary abilities in cracking riddles. I got some progress in search only after I found and de-coded a few hints/aberrations in TTOTC. These hints helped me to move up to the hoB. True hoB or not I will know only if I found the blaze and TC in my next BOTG there.

          • James,

            I was responding to Andy not you, but since you agreed with his post I guess by proxy I was responding to the both of you. And hey, aren’t you the guy who has a thread titled: “Hints, Vital to success” or whom has predicted that the eventual finder would have “only” found the treasure by using the hints in the book. So maybe we ought to define the terms here. So that said, answer this question: do you think one can find the treasure with just the poem and a map?


          • Sean, maybe we should back up and define another term…hint.

            I have made it clear on my thread that when I use the term hints I mean hints “in the poem and in the book”. Not less I write a post and focus on one of those two.

            I don’t think you have ever made that distinction about that when describing my posts.

            Yes, to your question but I think that’s the much tougher route to go like I’ve said many times before. Astronomical odds.

            You think since there’s only 166 words in the poem that makes it the easier route. I believe f doesn’t believe that.

            I can give you a prime example of what the poem purist miss out on because they don’t take the opportunity to try and figure out the couple of hints in the book.

          • James,

            Then your answer to my question: can one find the treasure with just the poem and a map, is yes. And it matters not the difficulty, only that it is possible.


          • …as we haven’t been shown one that doesn’t need help with the clues.

          • @seannm “Forreat has only said that they can help one with the clues.”

            IMO that is insane logic. Refuse anything that will help solve the clues. What’s next ignore the poem too? Randomly guess what Fenn is thinking? Just use intuition? Hire a mind reader?

          • Yeah, pretty hilarious. I ask people how many years are you gonna tell yourself that you don’t need help with the clues?..1 more year, 3 years, 5, 10 or 20 more? Don’t kid yourself.

            If f understands and tells us that a certain clue is the hardest and the rest get easier along the way, then what makes you think he can’t do the same thing with the hints where some are easier than others to figure out? Seems like he is pointing out which ones are easier.

          • @9equals9,

            No one “knows” which words in the book are the subtle clues and or hints, let alone how they help one with the clues. And that will remain the case until the treasure is found and the finder reveals their solution. Therefore, I tend to just stick with the evidence Forrest has given us, the poem and its nine clues. Everything else, in my opinion, is just noise and may just lead you down a myriad of rabbit holes.

            So it is not a refusal of anything that is supposed to “help” with a clue, it is the realization, based upon experience, that one cannot objectively identify what those subtle clues are in the book and then know how they are supposed to help us with the clues.

            If you think differently that is fine, this is just how I think.


          • James,

            And when did you start the chase? 2013 was it? That’s a whole two years ahead of me! So how many more years with those subtle clues do you need to figure out the correct starting point and then find treasure? 1, 5, 1000? Seems as though I’m tied with you and everyone else with just 166 words and a map. Now that is hilarious!

            I can still see the Rocky Mountains out my back window, can you?


          • @seannm
            No one “knows” which words in the book are the subtle clues and or hints, let alone how they help one with the clues.”

            How do you know that for certain? Forrest seems to think otherwise.

            Now it you want to use that logic, then no-one knows what the words in the poem mean in the clues.

            ” Therefore, I tend to just stick with the evidence Forrest has given us, the poem and its nine clues. Everything else, in my opinion, is just noise and may just lead you down a myriad of rabbit holes.”

            That is possible, but it begs the question, why are you so focused on discussing things outside the poem rather than sticking to just the poem?

          • @9equals9.

            No on “knows” or is “absolutely certain” of anything, clues and or hints, until one recovers the treasure. And unless you have already recovered the treasure you cannot know for certain that Forrest seems to think otherwise, as you say. Your just guessing, based upon your own bias.

            Now If you had been paying attention you would already know that I don’t discuss my interpretation of the directional clues. And who in their right mind would, if they had any confidence in them? That is unless they felt that they needed confirmation or validation, which I certainly do not. But sure I still like to discuss everything else, does that hurt you or anyone else some how?


          • Sean, I know I predicted once that I wrote the most compelling revelation yet by a searcher in the Chase and I haven’t seen that been challenged yet. So, it may seem that you are tied with me but we don’t know that cause you won’t talk about your solve(s). That falls on you. I’m open to compare.

            You say “it is the realization, based upon experience, that one cannot objectively identify what those subtle clues are in the book and then know how they are supposed to help us with the clues.”

            I flip the script. I say you can’t objectively identify any of the clues on their own.-

            Dear Forrest,

            You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is:

            a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and
            b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”

            Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail? ~ Steve

            No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?

            Imo, it’s the hints (both in the poem and ttotc) that contain the objectivity needed to be successful.

            If you were good at analyzing things and be more flexible (less confirmation bias) then you wouldn’t waste your time saying things like…”I can still see the Rocky Mountains out my back window, can you?”.

            You instead would take the opportunity I presented earlier and try to find out what I can give you as a prime example of what the poem purist miss out on because they don’t take the opportunity to try and figure out the couple of hints in the book.

          • Plenty in their right mind discuss their interpretations of the clues because they understand the astronomical odds of finding the tc.

            They are not in denial.

          • @seannm
            ” I don’t discuss my interpretation of the directional clues. And who in their right mind would, if they had any confidence in them? That is unless they felt that they needed confirmation or validation, which I certainly do not. But sure I still like to discuss everything else, does that hurt you or anyone else some how?”

            So what you are saying is, you refuse to discuss the poem or the meaning of its clues because that is silly. But you demand everyone to discuss the poem only and ignore the noise because to do otherwise is silly. SO you discuss anything but the poem because you like too? Ok that makes perfect sense, got it! lol

          • seannm… It may be interesting and perhaps enlightening for you to read the transcript and listen to Lorene Mills interview with Fenn in May of 2011. Pay particular attention to the part where Forrest gives advice on how to solve the clues.

          • @9equals9,

            No, I discuss the poem all the time on my show. We just did a show centered around the blaze. So I don’t refuse to talk about the poem or certain aspects of it, I have even openly discussed and shared my methodology as a poem purist, that being punctuation, word meaning and grammar being of the utmost importance.


          • @Ken,

            I have listened to that video many times, and have read thentranscript on TS. Did you think I had not?


          • @seannm
            “We just did a show centered around the blaze.”

            Discussing the blaze seems like even a more waste of time that anything you claim is a distraction considering Forrest says it is a waste of time.

            “You can’t go out looking for the blaze and expect to find the treasure chest. There’s 10 billion blazes out there. So you have to start with the first clue and let it take you to the blaze.” f
            “…those who start out by looking for the blaze, are wasting their time.f”

            Question about your, “my methodology as a poem purist”

            I am really confused, what is a poem purist anyway? It sounds like someone who only uses the poem, but the way you speak you certainly don’t fit that mold. You seem to suggest it but don’t follow it. So what is it?

          • @9equals9,

            I can understand why you and a select few others tend to question me being a poem purist. It comes down to ones definition of a poem purist. For me it is have the belief and faith that all the information I need to find the treasure is in the poem. So my solution to where the treasure is , is “purely” based upon the poem. And while I do talk about and analyze things outside of it, those things are not the basis of my solution, for I believe those outside of thenpoem can be subject to my bias thus leading me down the wrong path.

            So I hope that answers your question and we can drop the sarcasm and passive aggressive rhetoric.


          • @Seannm
            Judging by your reaction, I guess I struck a nerve. I am just curious what should we call a seeker who “purely” uses the poem or poem and map? Or someone like me who believes the 9 sentences are the 9 clues, whom ONLY uses the poem and Fenn’s words that refer to the poem as a guide? “Super poem purist”, “real poem purist”? Is there a word that more precisely describes these seekers or is that a catch all term?

          • I’ll be honest… I don’t think a special searcher “title” will get either of you any closer to that chest 😛

          • I can say if you are only using the poem.
            When you have a Book That FF has said clues are sprinkled amongst its pages. Illustrations and words, and if your not using any ATF’s, Scrapbooks.
            You will be purely still searching for the chest far beyond when it’s found.

            IMO. You need more info to the exact location than just the poem. No one will ever find that chest with just the poem EVER.

          • @Iron Will
            Finally someone picked up on this. That is my point. Who needs labels and titles? What good is it? It only causes emotional responses. Who cares how you solve it, just solve it. Who cares what everyone else is using to solve it, not everyone else is going to find it.

            We need to spend less time worrying about everyone else and what they are doing and focus on those 9 clues and solve them.

          • 9equals9;

            I 100% (Totally) agree with your last post!!! Tell it like it is – To heck with titles – Just solve the darned thing – JDA

          • @9equals9,

            Ah OK so now the truth comes out. Its a little title that strikes a nerve with you, and many others it seems. Thanks for clearing that up, LOL.


          • The only title that matters is what ff himself called those searchers with multiple botg to the same location. He called them ‘Expert Searchers’. Are you an expert searcher?

      • FD, -then f shouldn’t have said “You can find the chest with just the clues”.-

        On that, he is talking directly to us searchers who already know the backstory.

          • FD,

            The only back story of the poem is in TToTC under Gold and More, which really doesn’t help at all in finding the chest.

            Sorry for butting in.

          • I think it’s fair to say you don’t need the book(s) or ATF’s or a map/GE, just the poem.
            The problem I see just using the poem is I only see vague hints at where to begin and nothing rock solid.

          • Jake, then by default you are a prime candidate for possible help by the book hints.

            From above- the statement “You can find the chest with just the clues” is absolute, by the use of the word “just” that all you get to use is what’s in that statement…the clues. No backstory.

          • Yes Fundamental Design,
            If there was some rock solid info in the poem that pointed me and or everyone where to start, I would be a poem purist.
            But I don’t see it in my mind and with all the other postings here going back several years, where there is a place to begin in the poem alone.

            Because the poem (9 clues) are about places, directions, actions and things at places, I have to use his book(s) to find a subtle hint like “In love with Yellowstone”. I know some don’t think it’s subtle but it is a large vast area so he’s not giving away the cow.

          • James,

            I would somewhat agree with Forrest use of the word “just” in his statement. It implies that is all one needs. And maybe this is why he had updated his advise to new searchers to include the map. Just my opinion.

            What I would like to see is the “NOPE” question reworded to: does one need the backstory in order to find the treasure.

            I would bet he would say,: No, buit could be helpful.


          • Seannm, I don’t think that works. What is all include in “the backstory”? Nobody would agree.

            I like the way the question was asked: “no backstory”. Covers it all.

      • Fundamental Design – I’ll be a contrarian again. Those 2 statements are not at odds. The clues lead you to research other information like maps and books and internet. But the poem is just a collection of words. If you’re from the east coast and you’re walking in the Wyoming mountains, you couldn’t possibly recognize Anything as being the home of Brown. Will I recognize an old shack as being Ed Brown’s house from 1879 or see a creek and say “I’ll bet there’s a brown fish that lives in that creek?” The clues are all encompassing to include he thinking and research that must be done. The poem by itself, a mere collection of words, is completely useless in finding the treasure. Forrest said as much in his response to Nope.

        • I disagree Warlock. FF says the words mean what they say, so all we need to understand is what they say. Doesn’t matter where you are from, if you have studied all the definitions of every word and can apply the correct definitions to each word. Can you make toast like FF’s mom did and add jams to it to make a favorite dessert? If you can, then you can find the HOB, IMO. Researching fish or bears or brown buildings wont get you anywhere IMO

          • Flutterby: Let me ask you. I can’t get a handle on your line of thinking. My home of Brown is a city that was once named Brown. I know because I researched it on the internet. What do you do when you search? Do you walk around looking for brown things? I just don’t get it. I find it difficult to believe you don’t use any resources other than the poem because it is impossible to do so. How do you find your home of Brown? Can you site an example of your methods using one clue like I just did?

          • Warlock,
            I didn’t say I didn’t research anything. I was talking about HOB. I do not think Brown is a Brown Trout, Bear, or other animal whose name begins with Brown. I’ve talked a lot about HOB over the years, so I’m not going to spell it out again here. I simply believe that the correct definition of Brown is a verb and not an adjective. I also believe the answer is simple, but requires a different way of looking at the search location.

    • MajinKing you are absolutely right. People get confused with “consecutive order” and tense for some reason. The clues MUST be read and the logic followed consecutively exactly as Forrest said. But Forrest is telling us that while we are BOTG “if you’ve been wise” meaning you SOLVED the blaze at home and NOW that you’re in the search area you need your knowledge of the blaze to go to the next step. If I tell you that I’m eating a sandwich and then I tell you a story about Teddy Roosevelt, that doesn’t mean Teddy Roosevelt is still alive because he’s “following” my sandwich. The use of tense in the poem is extremely important. Do people think Forrest just threw past and present and future tense into the poem willy nilly, and didn’t understand what he was doing? I don’t think so.

      • Thanks Warlock62,

        You are the only one who agrees with me about the tense. Fenn could have written his poem like the following, but he didn’t. By doing so he is telling something about the order and how we should read the poem. IMO this is the only way to read the poem correct.

        “There is no paddle up your creek,
        Just heavy loads and water high.
        If you are wise and find the blaze”

        IMO he could not come up with a better way to finish the third stanza after several years of effort. Without the NPC, HL and WH the stanza would look like this.

        From there it’s no place for the meek,
        The end is ever drawing nigh;
        If you are wise and find the blaze,
        Look quickly down, your quest to cease.

        No rhymings at all! So he must have spent some more time to finish the poem in full 6 stanzas. The only way he came up with, IMO, was to add 2 more lines after the line with “end”. But that would screw up the order of the clue. So he added two more lines in future tense and changed the tense of the “blaze” line to the past as is presented in the final poem.

        At the same time two added lines should not interfere with the initial clues, so he wrote these two lines as additional descriptions to the NPC. Therefore, IMO, these two lines, namely NPC, HL and WH, are not to be considered as part of the 9 clues.

        — MajinKing

    • JDA, and MajinKing, what if you are both correct in what you expressed, What di d Catcher in the Rye land on in Important Lit Chapter? TIME magazine ..therefore both your answers are fulfillment of ff’s directions.

      Since some early, or new searcher/s were within 500/200 feet, the problem we are all having in IMHO is we are over complicating one facet or another at the expense of simplicity or as a child would see it.

      So a kid has a new puZZle and opens the box after seeing the finished, big picture illustrated like a funny book cover, they, kids want to just snap it together, starting with the borders first, then colors and finally the harder pieces, so does trying to figure out the harder pieces first make sense….probably not, so here is perhaps an easier way to see the solution of the riddle, of this puzzle, what was it that the earlier searchers did not see? WWWH and canyon down became a recognizable geographic feature but not for an over thinking adult? If your think Forrest invent those words, WWWH, I assure you he did not, but I am also sure that he has changed the meaning to fit child’s play, What is staying home and playing Canasta, a sublime hint that the basket shape, which Canasta means in another language, so we are looking for a basket, perhaps of willows, or wicker or that shape, which is a basin, with a crack in it down, all in close proximity to the TC.

      Biscuit Basin was a very good solve, sheds light on the problem of over analyzing the later clues to better see how simple they may wind up being. I was doing that process in March of 2017 with my “winter thoughts”.

      Someone is close, very close to solving the Riddle, and IMO home and Temple will be in the final place, the exact coordinate. 1413 NO. Main.

      My hope is that someone is right, if not me then one of you.


      • Thanks TT for your interpretation.

        I like your idea about children playing with the puzzle. If we read the poem with complicated idea we end up with a lot of complex force fittings and wild guesses with anagrams or word manipulations, which Fenn warned not to do that.

        If we read the poem like kids read them, we can arrive at a simple and right solution Fenn has intended. That’s why he mentioned that when somebody come up with a winning solve (meaning that he finds the TC) other searchers may say “why didn’t I think about that?”

        To tell the truth I came with the current solve a week after I heard about the chase in a news article last August. But I couldn’t make the trip to the RM to prove whether I’m right or wrong. I cannot make the trip this year either, so my BOTG is going to be in the next year some time. As I skim through all the postings on this site and others this past year, those postings not only confirm my solve but also increase my confidence to my solve even further.

        — MajinKing

    • Hi JDA,
      I think I’ve mentioned this sometime ago, but IMO Fenn might have said not only right things about the chase and so-called instructions that most searcher blindly follows but also not-so-right or wrong things that we shouldn’t accept at their face values. What I mean is that we have to interpret his so-called hints correctly. Sometimes we have to accept them 100% right, but other times we have to scrutinize them and accept only 50% of them or none at all. Of course the poem is correct as is. But the ATF hints and “helps” might not be. That’s why he insists that we should try to find and correctly interpret 9 clues contained in the poem, without using any hints from the books. You should use the hints in the book ONLY when you’re stuck at some points in the poem, IMO.
      — MajinKing

      • Hi JDA,
        I thought I clicked Reply button below your post but I don’t know why it appears here. Sorry about that.
        — MajinKing

      • MK;

        Problem #1 is deciding what ATF’s that Forrest has published are hints or “nudges.” Take for instance Forrest most recent post – Forrest Gets Mail 23??? 22 or 23, I can’t remember. A story about Johnny and Donna finding a wolverine. Is this a real story by two searchers? Is it a fabrication by Forrest? Are there hints or nudges in this post? Every reader will have a different answer. How can there be so many different views of the same ATF? If there ARE
        hints in the post – are these hints General or specific?

        Hints in the book are maybe, a bit easier to categorize. We know that they are for all readers to find and figure out. SB’s, Mail etc is less clear. What I see as a hint, another searcher will see nothing.

        Ain’t it all fun? JDA

        • Tom Terrific – First off thanks for the kind words and saying Biscuit Basin solve was good. I worked hard at keeping it simple. I still believe it is within this specific location. My only concern with some new info I found last night, is it opens another possibility and drops my “In sure percentage” to about 85%

          So I watched the YouTube video about FF drawings in TTOTC. It’s attached here: https://youtu.be/71nfHwpnq5A

          There is also this link to Cynthia’s blog about it: http://www.chasingfennstreasure.com/blog

          Now I believe throughout the years he has given exact clues to the beginning and ending locations. Not EXACTLY where the TC lies, but to the exact places. Which is why I believe my biscuit basin solve might be incorrect. I say this due to FF comment about children. Going back to Dals blog post with Fenn answering questions to the kids class. He begins with wanting to give them something to think about. “Today as I went up the stair, I met a man who wasn’t there. He wasn’t there again today, oh how I wish he’d go away.” I believe this is the ending location, with a tiny hint of the beginning location, as my interpretation of this “riddle” is a “ghost.” The story was also based off of a ghost story in Canada.

          Now the picture in the beginning of TTOTC that FF drew recently, to me, tells me he is giving you a hint to WWWH. He drew a person walking, what looks like a person skiing, and then a person with a flat line under them. Why at the beginning of the book…well, IMO he is saying start here. Where though? People have mentioned how Fenn has talked about Minerva. These drawings tell me he is hinting that the start point is at Minerva Terrace based on “stair minor hint above,” as well as the three drawings at the beginning. Read first two paragraphs of this link: https://www.yellowstoneparknet.com/geothermal_features/minerva_terraces.php

          You can walk (first drawing), snowshoe depending on weather (second drawing), or the moveable boardwalk (third drawing).

          Starting here takes you down canyon towards Sagebrush meadows I think it’s called. The story about them chasing Cody mentions Sagebrush Meadows. Following this trail down takes you to Undine Falls. Marry it to a map FF said. No place for the meek poem says. Here is a quote related to Undine as in Undine Falls taken from Wikipedia:

          Undines are almost invariably depicted as being female, and are usually found in forest pools and waterfalls. The group contains many species, including nereides, limnads, naiades and mermaids. Although resembling humans in form, they lack a human soul, so to achieve mortality they must acquire one by marrying a human. Such a union is not without risk for the man, because if he is unfaithful, then he is fated to die.

          Following this trail leads you to Wraith Falls. Going back to the quote on giving the kids something to think about: if it IS a ghost, a wraith is “a ghost or ghostlike image of someone, especially one seen shortly before or after their death.” I saw a man who wasn’t there…

          I believe you’re gonna need BOTG to find the TC…but if these hints are correct, and it is within close proximity to there…and you find it. Give me a shout out and a thanks

          • James, This sums up a big issue with your approach:

            Mr. Fenn,
            You have said to read the poem and read TTOTC to help solve for the 9 clues. We all know there are many options to choose from regarding, Brown, hoB, wwh,and blaze hinted at in the book.
            My question is, “In the book, do you also, in a more subtle way, tell which is the correct answer to one or all of the above?” ~BW

            No I don’t madam, sorry. f

        • From the International Business Times “Read the clues in my poem over and over and study maps of the Rocky Mountains,” 86-year-old Fenn recently told Business Insider. “Try to marry the two. The treasure is out there waiting for the person who can make all the lines cross in the right spot.” In my opinion. If Forrest says there are hints in the book, there are probably hints in the books. No matter how complicated or simple it looks, it’s in his nature. g

  11. Thank you Dal, Lisa Cesari and JDA
    for answering my random questions. I also can’t look up “several” because we no longer have a printed dictionary in our home. Mountains of books on our shelves, and yet the kids have all hauled the dictionaries and thesaurus’ off to college with them.

    Apparently I had it wrong about the bracelet. I thought it was won in a Poker game. Looks like it was Pool and not Poker, which is quite entertaining to me with my current solve. Its kind of like a play on words. (IMO) Fits my current solve idea in a very entertaining way. The fact that Richard Weatherill found the beads and that it was won from Harvey, who was “a hotel magnate” is even more entertaining with my current solve ideas. So I’m glad I asked the question about it.

    I felt certain that in one very early quote, FF mentioned a specific dictionary. Maybe I will eventually find that quote. I was asking for kind of a funny reason which won’t make sense if you don’t know yet what my solution (hopefully) is.

    Thanks for your answers!

  12. For anyone whom needs a great read, I recommend this one. Another war hero comes home. I encourage everyone to go to the website to view the photographs of this homecoming. It completely left me in tears.

    This article originally appeared on USA TODAY: Vietnam vet: Airline pilot flies MIA dad’s remains home to Texas


    When Air Force Maj. Roy Knight, Jr., left Dallas for Vietnam 52 years ago, his 5-year-old son, Bryan, came to Dallas Love Field to see him off. On Thursday, Bryan, now a captain for Southwest Airlines, brought back his father’s remains aboard a flight to the same Dallas airport.

    Knight, born in Garner, Texas, was 36 when he was shot down while attacking a target on the Ho Chi Minh trail in Laos on May 19,1967, according to White’s Funeral Home in Weatherford, Texas.

    Jackson Proskow, Washington bureau chief for Canada’s Global News, was on a layover from El Paso to Washington on Thursday when he witnessed the moving ceremony at the airport. Proskow watched as the flag-draped casket was delivered into the arms of a military honor guard.

    In a series of tweets, Proskow reported that the Dallas Love Field terminal came to a standstill.

    “Incredible moment to watch,” Proskow wrote. “The entire airport fell silent.”

    In 1967, Knight was leading a flight of two aircraft on a strike mission when his aircraft was hit by anti-aircraft fire, according to the Defense POW/MIA Account Agency.

    “No parachute was observed prior to the aircraft crashing and bursting into flames,” the agency says. “Additionally, no beeper signals were heard. While search and rescue efforts were initiated, an organized search could not be conducted due to intensity of hostile ground fire in the area.”

    Knight, officially listed as MIA, was declared deceased in September 1974, when his son, Bryan was just 12.

    In 1991 and 1992, almost 20 years after the end of the Vietnam war, joint U.S.-Laos teams investigated a crash site allegedly associated with Knight’s loss, recommending it for excavation. From 1994, the site was examined five times.

    In early 2019, a joint team recovered possible human remains and life support items that led to the identification of Knight’s remains.

    On Thursday, at the airport, hundreds of crew members, onlookers, friends, and military personnel, gathered on the tarmac, according to a livestream by WFAA on its Facebook page. Some brushed away tears, many had their hand over their heart.

    Two fire trucks sprayed an arc of water over the Southwest airlines plane, which brought the remains home on the last leg from Oakland, as it rolled slowly to the terminal.

    Proskow said the story Knight, who was subsequently promoted to colonel, and his son, Bryan, who also served in the Air Force, was announced over the airport intercom as the moving scene unfolded.

    “The gate agent was very emotional as he told the story over the PA,” Proskow wrote. “They handed out American flags to everyone at the gate.”

    There are 1,588 department of defense personnel still unaccounted for from the Vietnam War, according to DPAA.

    This article originally appeared on USA TODAY: Vietnam vet: Airline pilot flies MIA dad’s remains home to Texas

  13. Once you click on the link you can then go to the bottom of the article and click on the USA TODAY: Vietnam vet: Airline pilot flies MIA dad’s remains home to Texas for multiple photos from the Airport.

    Thank you to all the Vets!

    Deano Bravo

    • And on a personal note, you might as well stay at home and play Canasta!

      Google — Canasta 404 — and read it. Love, Loss, and the POW / MIA movement. Pay attention folks…Forrest has many LOVES if ya ask me. IMO as always…

      Deano Bravo

      • Man, I give! This Chase has created so many emotions and the knowledge I have gained is one for the history books. We need to END this war HERO’s brilliance, sooner than later!

        Forrest is not only a “War Hero” but a national treasure as well.

        God Bless all of our amazing Veterans that paid the ultimate price for our FREEDOM….as well as to all those whom were lucky enough to make it home to their family and friends.

        Words can not describe this roller-coaster of a ride that this Chase has put me on. Forrest, you sure know how to open our eyes! I need a Dr. Pepper…this is killing me.

        Get ‘er Done PEOPLE!!

        Deano Bravo

  14. Why 200 feet from the chest? Maybe it’s not possible to get closer than 200 feet from the chest, without doing something that would seem counter intuitive?

  15. So fate deals you four cards and a Joker.. If Forrest was from east of the Mississippi, I would throw out maybe “gone alone” referred to a game of Euchre! Ok not really, but oh, the possibilities!

  16. Preface- Until someone is holding the TC, we can’t know that they have the right solve.

    I believe I have the right search area within a 2 mile square area. I arrived here strictly upon the clues from the poem. However; I find it absolutely fascinating that the landscape here fits FF’s stories from his books. All the people and places from his book are right here; in the landscape. FF said that when he read JD Salinger’s book, that it was his story too. Turns out that the area I’m searching fits precisely the people and places in FF’s book. Cooincidence? Possibly. And yet, if it is a coincidence, then it is a fascinating one.

  17. Flutterby,

    Subtle hints in his book may help, but going outside of what the poem says, I believe is a big stretch. Hints and aberrations are so subtle, provided one can find the correct hints. I don’t believe the full stories are the way to go because they are not subtle but outright blatant. IMO the text within the stories that are subtle along with the aberrations in text.

    Examples could be simple words, campground fires, narrow canyon walls with a stream, (L&C story), meadow or waterfall (My war), small town WYs are just a few small lines or single word. I honestly don’t feel Salinger’s book will help out at all as it is way outside of the poem and a map and even the books hints are confined within what the poem says.

    I don’t think FF anticipated that folks use the full stories, stamps and photos as a means to find the chest. The quote from Gold and More F wrote, “There are also subtle clues sprinkled IN THE STORIES.”f It is clear the stories are not the hints and he never said the photos or stamps will help. (I put caps in for emphasis.)

    This quote F from https://thefenndiagrams.com/q-a-with-fenn/first-round/ “The hints in The Thrill of the Chase text will not be made public because they would say more than I want to reveal. Discovering which hints to use is part of the mystery.”f So the hints are a mystery, doesn’t sound like the stories at all, but IMO it’s within the text.

    I just wanted to point out some things, when you do botg, I wish good luck.

    Just Say’n

    • CharlieM,
      What I actually said was that I arrived at my search location using ONLY the poem (clues from poem). However; now that I am here, I see that the people and places “from the stories” are all here too. I see FF’s family members, Miss Ford, Old Biddies, FF’s friends, the broken pie grandma gave him. I also see the “school” FF attended, the poker game, the marble game, canasta, fly fishing, etc all represented in the landscape itself. If you were standing here, you would see it too. It may be coincidence, but it is an awfully enormous coincidence if that is what it is. I think I get why the pool game was important enough to mention, and dozens of other things. I wasn’t looking for these coincidences. I believe the poem gives us what we need to find the TC.

      • If you didn’t tie in stories, I would be skeptical about the solve. There is a reason f used the certain stories he did. He has so many, he could have used any. There are little things that f has said that need to be addressed. Why say 265 coins when in the book he says hundreds? Saying hundreds still gets the message across, why did he not only remember, but let us know how many? There is a reason. Why use the exact stories, there’s a reason. Why would the gold nuggets picture be altered? Why are many pics altered? Why the ATF’s? It all ties in. If Flutter did not tie in anything, it would be very suspect of a flawed solve. I would believe more in his favor if he tied some of the things said, along with explanations of the stories and pics.

          • Hi Dal
            Who did that same picture ,only with
            a gold nugget on a chain, placed in the

          • Do you have the original picture than (should still be in your e-mail) of that photo as you got it from Forrest? If so, could you post it or just e-mail it to me? I actually e-mailed Forrest about that image yesterday.

          • Dal,speaking of conspiricy,seems like there are a few old timers who are great thinkers and are saying they are done. Is this a ploy to force Forrest to give more info? IMHO

          • First of all…leaving the chase is not a new phenomenon. I can look at the names of early contributors to this blog with a great deal of nostalgia. Most have disappeared from the chase without so much as a friendly goodbye. Hundreds disappeared after their first year. Some still get pleasure out of being part of the chase…but not everyone. We all have our own reasons for sticking with it.

            For those that do not, I suspect it’s frustration from the poem not being solved and/or being tired of playing with no joy from advancement. Some folks can beat their heads against a wall longer than others. Those two effects plus the recycling of old questions and ideas and reiterating what has been iterated over and over from previous generations of searchers on blogs, forums and vlogs just creates a sense of being in a nine year long Twilight Zone episode where things just keep repeating themselves and no end is in sight.

            It’s good to take a break from everything once in awhile…clean your glasses…get the old synapse reconnected…

        • Poison,
          I have tied in much more than I have shared. But, I’m not giving away my search area. As far as I know, I’m the only one searching here at this time and I’d like to leave it that way. The only person other than my family who knows where I am, is Forrest. Even my husband didn’t know where we were going til we got here.

        • It’s the same recording that is on the top of “The Poem” discussion page. But not many folks use that page so I thought I would add it to the front-page..

          • Thanks, I was thinking of the CBS Sunday Morning Interview from 2015 where he is sitting in his yard and reading the peom… But, this is different, sounds like he is inside and in the CBS one you can hear birds in the back ground…. Funny he says “If you’ve been brave” in both of them I think….??? Don’t have time to go re listen right now but will try to later…

  18. I am just going to put this one out there. Since I don’t have the physical ability to get out to these type of sites, I will give it to you.
    It seems to have it all from looking at the map, plus connection to a few hints.
    Hints include Basin from the bathroom photos. It is up against the Colorado border, a boundary reference. Beaver reference…waterfalls galore. A slot canyon where you might go alone in there. Great fishing. WWWsH is probably the headwaters up on top of there. Then you may want to drive over to the parking spot and take it in the canyon down. I bet that it is at the bottom of the falls.
    As usual, don’t climb, Don’t go alone, Do gear up,Do write up a story about your adventure.
    Beaver Creek Slot Canyon:

  19. Poison,
    I have tied in much more than I have shared. But, I’m not giving away my search area. As far as I know, I’m the only one searching here at this time and I’d like to leave it that way. The only person other than my family who knows where I am, is Forrest. Even my husband didn’t know where we were going til we got here.

  20. 42’s out-of- the-box interpretation of:

    “brave” AND in the “wood”

    Believe me or not, The word Hawaii is found in TTOTC poem when justified w/out spaces. One way to interpret “brave” AND in the “wood” is linked to ancient Hawaiian warriors:

    The Hawaiian Koa Warriors

    The Hawaiian Koa warriors were the elite fighters of the islands, and their name originated from the tree they would use to fashion their weapons, the Koa tree. Not only would the tree provide the Koa their name, it would provide then as with all their battle tools, which were vast and diverse, suitable for all types of battlefield combat.

    KOA is also a rare wood found in Hawaii.

    The important KOA link to ff’s treasure May be
    K-O-A aka Kampgrounds of America; known by their A-frame’s and campground map symbol “A”
    Keep in mind ff and family spent A lot of time pulling campers from Texas to Montana. Heck? They may have owned a KOA franchise.

      • Your welcome 42,
        In an all in game, I see at it as a wise call to keep an eye on the kids playing in Doyles room…even if you run the risk of being blackballed.

    • 42, what do you base “Keep in mind ff and family spent A lot of time pulling campers from Texas to Montana” on? I have never heard FF mention that they towed a camper. I do remember that his dad would park a trailer in the woods with their supplies for the winter and get them the next year. They camped at fishing bridge for a few years then they had a cabin rental business. Is there some stories that I missed? Just wanting to keep up.

  21. This morning, just for fun, I thought I would google the phrase
    “Up s##t creek without a paddle. “ The urban dictionary says:
    A Scottish slang term meaning to be stuck in a bad situation without
    any way of fixing it. The bad situation being ‘s##t creek’ and ‘the paddle’
    being the solution. WHAT? No solution up my creek! Works for me.
    I hang a left about halfway, just past heavy loads.

    • Assume that you’re a 80-year old man. You park your car at the parking lot and get out of the car. You open the trunk door or the hatchback door and you see a bronze box and a trove. A box or a trove weighs about 20+ pounds each and you know that you have to make two separate trips to hide them since you know that you cannot carry both together on your backpack because 40+ pounds is too heavy for you.

      You don’t care which one you carry first. Let’s say you choose to carry the box first, so you put it in your backpack. Now you have to decide which way to go since there are two trails, one leading up to a high point and another to a low point (high and low, of course, in terms of elevation). Let’s further assume that either point is good for hiding the treasure. Now which way do you want to choose?

      You can go UP FIRST to a high point and hide the box, and come down with an empty backpack, then put a trove into the backpack and carry it up to the same spot, put the trove in the box and come down to your car at the parking lot with an empty backpack and begin laughing in your heavy breathing and say to yourself, “Forrest Fenn, did you really do it? Haha.”

      Or you can go DOWN FIRST to a low point and hide the box, and come up with an empty backpack, then put a trove into the backpack and carry it down to the same spot, put the trove in the box and come up to your car at the parking lot with an empty backpack and begin laughing in a normal breathing and say to yourself, “Forrest Fenn, did you really do it? Hahahahaha.”

      Which way do you think is easier for your 80-year old body? “Up heavy – down light – up heavy – down light” or “Down heavy – up light – down heavy – up light”?

      I definitely say, the latter is a lot easier for anybody not just for 80-year old man, don’t you? Especially when the trail Fenn chose to follow is a very steep trail (water high) with a box or the treasure (heavy loads).

      Now let’s assume that a searcher is very lucky and find the treasure. He has to carry 40+ pounds in his backpack and has to come UP the trail to his car, which is not an easy task for anybody. But since you don’t want to leave the trove nor the box there unattended and you’re going to carry them both you’re going UP THE CREEK WITH NO PADDLE. Also it’s going to be a doubly hard job since you’re carrying HEAVY LOADS and you’re walking WATER HIGH (steep slope) creek trail.

      But if I’m lucky enough to find the treasure I think I have to go through the pain (gladly) of carrying the heavy loads of trove on my backpack and walking a steep slope to my car. If anybody see me carrying a heavy backpack and sweating and breathing like crazy going up the trail to get to my car, he will be very curious why I am doing what I am doing. LOL

      — MajinKing

      • MajinKing;

        Although your logic MAY make sense, it does not take into consideration that Forrest (Paraphrasing) said that he knew all along where he was going to hide Indulgence, and that he would make it work no matter what. He knew where he wanted to die, and if it meant a heavy trip up-hill first, he was going to make it work.

        I can not prove it, but I suspect that Forrest had been to his “hidey spot” on several occasions. He MAY have had to make some “Site-Preparations” – who knows?

        Thanks for the post, but I think that your logic is flawad since it does not take into account that forrest has said that he was going to make the spot work, no matter what.. JMO – JDA

      • Here is the actual quote: Question posted 7/5/2014:
        “Mr. Fenn, Did you choose the hiding location purely because it was special to you, or were there other considerations? (I’m not talking about logistics like transporting yourself there, ease of access, not being spotted). ~Michael Monroe
        Thanks Michael. The spot where I hid the treasure was in my mind from the time I first started thinking about the chase. It is special to me and there was never another consideration. I was going to make it work no matter what. In my reverie I often find myself stealing away to that place and I will always consider it to be mine alone”.f

        http:// mysteriouswritings.com/questions-with-forrest-fenn-and-the-thrill-of-the-chase/


        • Hi JDA,
          I know what you mean 100%. There are no two trails, actually there is only one for you to take when you park your car below the home of Brown. That’s why I just said “let’s assume.” I know that Fenn had to take this only trail since there is none other than that. If I tell you my solve, you definitely would say “Why didn’t I think about that?” I’m not joking. You keep saying you don’t like YNP because it’s too obvious. Sometimes you want to hide a thing in a place too obvious to everybody. Because most people don’t look for the treasure in a place too obvious to them. Instead they try to look for the treasure in a deep down very hard to search place. IMO the TC is hidden in a place too obvious to everybody.
          — MajinKing

          • And that’s why most searchers could not find the treasure until now.
            — MajinKing

          • MajinKing——

            In the movie “The World According to Garp” an airplane crashes into a home that is up for sale.

            Garp (Robin Williams) immediately buys the home because he says the odds of another plane ever crashing into the house are astronomical.

            A thought crossed my mind once. The Golden Horse Treasure was finally found to have been buried in Tennessee Pass Colorado. What if Forrest hid his Treasure in the exact same spot? Who would EVER think the chest would be hidden where the Golden Horse had once been buried? LOL
            I know—fat chance— but a funny thought just the same.

          • Tennessee Pass elevation 10,424 ft is a high mountain pass in the Rocky Mountains of central Colorado in the United States. The pass was named after Tennessee, the native state of a group of early prospectors.
            I have been up there on my way to Avon, and Breckenridge. It is way way up there. But I still found places to search nearby. Redcliff and Gilman. Lower in elevation, just barely.

  22. He can keep his secret – in the poem. And a hint- the hint is in the poem to, that comes at the end – as are tarry scanting with marvel gaze, the hint will come into play – If you ARE brave and IN the wood. In my opinion

    • Look quickly down your quest to cease. (Look quickly down) to me is the last clue, once you look down you know where the treasure is , and your quest ceased! Each clue will lead you to it, but don’t stick around get the chest open it marvel at it and go. (tarry scant with marvel gaze) a suggestion, hint in the poem – If you are brave and in the wood. IMO sorry

      • So Tom; What are we to do with the lines – “So why is it that I must go and leave my trove for all to seek? The answers I already know, I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak. – So hear me all and listen good, Your effort will be worth the cold.?” Are we just to ignore them?

        That is 6 lines out of 24 that you are suggesting mean nothing. Why would Forrest say something to the effect that one can ignore any of the nouns at his own peril….. Something is not right here don’t you think? Just askin’ JDA

        • JDA I’ve thought a lot about this. If we find the blaze and the treasure chest we should be done. I believe those six lines in the poem are to help us locate WWWH. Once the poem is solved I don’t believe they are necessary when on foot. But they are very important in understanding the why and the where of it all beforehand. You know…he could have ended the poem after “peace.” It wraps up rather nicely…so the parts beyond the find obviously have meaning. I guess I just don’t know what yet. I’m so boring….this is how I spend my Saturday night.

          • Copper— what if the poem DOES end at the word peace? Had you ever considered that? I think JDA knows what I mean—- JDA had this idea once. I still think it’s a great idea.

          • Yes Sparrow, about two or three years ago I thought that the poem ended with Peace – but I now think that every word in the poem is important. For me, now, stanza #1 is a prelude – setting the stage if you will,

            Stanza’s 2, 3 and 4 are directions to the blaze. Stanza 5 & 6 tell you what to do once you find the blaze and look down. Look down yes, but if you do not understand what it is that you are looking for, and how far down to look, you could spend a long long time following your nose around in circles – The last two stanzas lead you to EXACTLY where it is at – or so I believe. Only time will tell if I am correct – JDA

          • I’m pretty close to having to side with JDA. The first stanza, to me, is somewhat of a prelude. At least the first line. I don’t believe that the next couple of stanzas are to get you to the blaze, but only part of the whole thing into getting you to a spot. Also, like Copper said, it seems to involve two quests. But both physical. There is another thing to find. Back to JDA, I believe the last stanza does pinpoint to the ultimate spot.
            Jake, the ultimate goal in the poem is to find the chest, but it may not be the quest. F did try to think in the future, I think he would like to know if someone is going to find his chest, even if he is long gone. You say poem reading 101, so what is his secret? He tells us of his secret plan, so what is it? If the poem is asking where he could put his secret, then what is he talking about? So then, what is the quest?
            The poem reveals an “x”, a spot on a map, right? According to the poem, this would be where his secret is. That to me sounds like the quest, which would make JDA, correct in thinking that the last stanza pinpoints to the chest. Which like you stated is our ultimate goal. That sounds more like a proper read of the poem. Where does f state that when he says he could put his secret where, he is talking about the chest? He tells us his “secret” plan on page 137. So how can you validate that his secret is the chest, when he tells us his secret is burying bells? How many times does he have to tell us to ring his bell so he will know?
            One poem, two quests, first to find the spot, the bell, the second to find the ultimate spot, the chest. How many clues are needed to be solved to find the chest? The last one, right? So the 8 clues prior are needed to find the bell, his secret, his words.
            What would be the reason for all the stories about bells? Why tell us that one says to ring his bell so he will know? If f told us to keep his secret where, then on page 137, he said his secret plan was hiding the chest, what would you think his “secret” is? Hiding the chest, right? But he says burying bells, so why do you think he is still talking about hiding the chest? Poem reading 101, interpretation 102.

        • I wouldn’t force your own personal thinking or knowledge on the poem.
          The poem says “your quest to cease”.
          Game over!
          Force what the poem says to override your thinking and understand what it says.
          Fenn’s poem reading 101.

          • Jake;

            “Your quest to cease…” could mean your quest to find the blaze Jake, and not Your quest to find Indulgence.

            Just another way of looking at it Jake, and using ALL of the poem and not 1/2 or less. JMO – JDA

          • “Your quest to cease” has nothing to do with finding the treasure. Just like “worth the cold” has nothing to do with actually being cold. These literal interpretations can’t possibly lead to the treasure. We’ve got to abandon this “if it quacks like a duck it’s a duck” simplistic thinking and be a LOT more clever than that, like Forrest is. JMO

          • Jake, how do you know that your quest is to find the treasure from what the poem says? Is the quest the same thing as his secret? Or should I say that his secret is the chest? Gathered from line 3? I’m curious to your thoughts.

          • I side with Jake here. Quest to cease, imo, is about the end of your treasure quest.

            I think that the hunt for the blaze and how to associate with it will be figured out long before the quest to cease line.

            I don’t agree with JDA that the first stanza is only a prelude. That makes the poem unsolvable in my book. I feel one must ring out more from that stanza.

            I also feel that much of the poem is literal. I’d say that’s the beauty of it. We learned that for the toughest clue-BIWWWH- “Begin” means “begin”. If the clues get progressively easier from there then there you go.

          • Allow me to liken TTOTC to Blackjack for a moment. In Blackjack, the presupposition is that we the players are to get to 21, which is an alternative name for the game and acts to reinforce this notion. That presupposition is incorrect—-our purpose for playing is simply to beat the dealer.

            Likewise, IMO, the presupposition that Indulgence is the goal of TTOTC may lead searchers astray in their efforts (AKA busting in Blackjack, which is an automatic loss on our part). Indulgence is an ingredient necessary for successfully completing/solving TTOTC—one part of the reward for accomplishing same.

        • What are we to do with the lines – “So why is it that I must go and leave my trove for all to seek? The answers I already know, I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak. Well just speculating JDA, this part looks to me that Forrest is having a conversation with himself, he asked a question and then he answers it. Why he left the chest in the spot he did, and not the spot he wanted. It was too far to walk for an 80 year old man, it’s all important, just like the first of the poem, As I HAVE gone alone in there, he have gone, but not this time. IMO, and; so hear me all and listen good your effort will be worth the cold. To me very important, key word line. Where to start looking in the Rockies. To me also be can keep his secret in the poem and a hint to help while your looking down, revivals what the trove is in, if you are brave and in the wood. Again only my opinion

      • It’s as if there are two quests. One physical (tromping around BFE whilst in prayer for a lucky break) and the other educational/mental. Our time is really spent on the educational bit for most of us, the mental learning curve. So which quest ceases? Not the physical but the mental. You still have to get the thing back to your wheels. Finding the chest is your graduation, except instead of a degree you get rich.

        Anyway you should know “why he must go” before you must go to it…if that makes sense.

          • Copper—
            Forrest says there is a riddle to be solved in the poem. I think the riddle is “So why is it that I must go and leave my trove for all to seek? Once this solved then we will understand the steps to the Treasure. I believe that the poem may be broken up and needs to be restored. It’s possible it BEGINS with “So why…?
            and ends with “Just take the chest and go in peace.” So stanza 5 and 6 actually go on top, and 1 thru 4 are underneath them. In my next “Sparrows Speculations” I will explain why I believe this to be true. I think you will be very surprised and JDA too.

          • Sparrow, you know as well as I do that that is messing with the poem. If the poem tells us to do that then very well, but it doesn’t. If you believe the poem must be broken up, where in the poem does it say to do that?
            In your next write up as you say, to be surprised, you would need to validate moving things around from the poem, not your thoughts. It has to come from the poem, if you can do that, then I would be impressed and happy for you. I just don’t see that instruction from the poem.
            I too believe that the poem is to be broken up. But in a sense of following the instructions given by the poem. In that way, it isn’t messing with the poem. If you mess with the poem, you could miss the instructions. But I won’t be totally skeptical yet, if you have found somewhere in the poem where it instructs you to move stanzas around, then that’s great. If not, that would be messin’.

          • Copper;
            See my post above: JDA on August 10, 2019 at 8:09 pm said: That explains it as best I know how. – Thanks for askin’ JDA

          • Poison——

            I understand what you are saying. But I really don’t think moving stanzas is “messing with the poem”. If I altered words, or moved sentences around then I would call that “messing with the poem”,

            There are (6) stanzas n the poem. You will notice that it appears you can move a stanza to another location and it still seems to make sense. It is a very unusual poem.

            I actually think the poem STARTS with a question. It BEGINS with a riddle. The riddle HAS to be solved. The question really isn’t WHERE is the Treasure, but WHY is there a treasure? “WHY is it that I MUST go and leave my trove for ALL to seek?” “So hear me ALL….”

            Yes—-I will share why I think there is good reason to move the two stanzas to the top of the poem. And it is in the Poem, not in my thoughts.

            Thanks for the input Poison—-all the best in your search,

          • sparrow… not all riddles begin with a question. The question would be… is it an enigma or a conundrum. maybe…

          • Sparrow, you’ve been here a long time. I figured you would have some way to show. You know all the ATF’s, comments, etc… Can’t wait to read, good luck

  23. Sometimes I think it would be wise for us to consider the distance from WWWH to the Blaze, or where Indulgence sits, we some times hear it is close in terms of “Not Far but Too Far to Walk” perhaps some ideas of that distance in relation to early searchers guessing but not understanding got so close, why? What I suspect is the full definition or understanding of WWWH is either so sublime or so simple it hides in plane or plain sight.

    Recently the Biscuit Basin solve allowed me to see the simple truth vs the over complication of the truth, by that thought process I felt we have all for one reason or another over complicated child’s play in a sense we add something into the box that is not written in the poem. What if it was much closer and simpler than we all make it?

    My opinion is that when an 80 year old is determined to carry an object of 22 rather than 43 lbs. there is a reason, either bushwhack terrain or footing problems, or distance? The way I see it from ff kickin the can down the canyon is less than a few miles, 1 to 2 or less than 1 from wwwh, or where he parked his sedan.


    • TT, I only ask because the answer seems obvious. Why did he tell us to not try to carry it back in one trip? 42lbs. in a backpack, for a mile or two is not a problem. The reason of one afternoon and such, equating to a time limit is foolish. For the obvious again. We don’t know if he is saying one “trip” or afternoon. It may just be one afternoon that he was done, but that does not mean both trips were done then. Very well possible that he took two trips and was done in the one trip in the afternoon. Meaning he was done in one trip, the second one. If you limit your thinking to one way, you miss what other ATF’s say. If you are walking long distances, you are walking too far. That’s exactly what the poem tells us “to walk” — too far. Not far, but too far “to walk”. His words, long distances equals “too far”. Plus, when asked the question of why too far to walk is so important, he replied with, I never said it was too far…err…important. And of course, don’t try to carry the whole thing in one trip. Add it all up, he’s always saying that there is distance for us to walk. He walked less then a few miles. What is his reference to the word few? I’ve posted a possible. It’s just going by what f has said. What is several hours? All these thoughts lead to a long distance to walk, to say in contrary is to be playing with a one sided coin.
      To be seeing this for face value, but then they try to show how they figure things out by subtle means in the poem. They force fit. Use subtle info when it is easy for them, but not when it’s obvious.
      It all does not matter. The poem solve and the “x” is what we are trying to get to. One way 4-5 miles is a very possible number. There is a lot more info siding with that possible then there is saying just 1-2 miles. You know as well as I do, we don’t truly know. The poem solve will let us know. If your solve says 1-2 miles, then that’s what it is. If mine says 4-5 miles, then that’s what it is. Both sides have their positive argument. As much as you may be able to say 1-2 miles, I could come over that with just as much saying 4-5.
      I believe he parked his car right at the spot where the canyon is about to start, at wwwh. One way in, no motorized vehicles. From that small church parking lot, it’s a 5 or so mile hike. There’s enough info that supports it, just like there would be info that supports 1-2 miles. It’s a no win argument, whatever side you take.
      Of course, I don’t think indulgence sits at the blaze, close, but not right there. That’s a different scenario. Like you said, “What I suspect is the full definition or understanding of WWWH is either so sublime or so simple it hides in plane or plain sight”.
      I think understanding the reference to the word “few” is the simple thing in plain site. It is what is in tight focus with the word that……..

    • How does this fit in?

      Forrest, You said you made two trips from your car to hide the treasure. Besides walking, did you use any other methods of transportation to get back and forth between the car and the hide? Thanks, Edgar

      Edgar, your wording of the question prompts me to pause and wonder if I can answer it candidly, yet correctly. Were all the evidence truly known, and I answered in the positive, you might say I was prevaricating, by some definitions of the word. And if I answered in the negative, you may claim that I was quibbling. So I will stay quiet on that subject. Thanks for the question anyway. f

      • Let’s say that he took a bike with him. He used the bike to help carry the weight, but he did not ride the bile – except possible on the trips back to the car.

        “Besides walking, did you use any other methods of transportation ”

        If I answered in the positive, you might say I was prevaricating, because he took a bike, but did not ride it.

        And if I answered in the negative, (I did not use any other method) you may claim that I was quibbling. because in fact I did use a bike.

        A small cart or wagon could replace a bike, and the replies are still correct. JMO – JDA

        • Come on now, JDA no you really think Forrest took a bike? The word WALKING is the reason why he could not answer, he walked IMO, but the treasure is not in close proximity to a human trail. Again IMO, it’s a trail ride trail for horses not a human trail. The word walk if he answered no that would be against what he previously said. If he answered yes he would have to tail you what he rode, a horse. LOL, 80 year old man peddling a chest into the teeth of the Rockies on a bike.

          • Only Forrest knows for sure, and he chose not to answer the question. Is a bike any different from a horse when you are 79 or 80. I also said that he probably did not ride the bike, but used it to help carry the weight. – JDA

          • Hello JDA. You mentioned the possibility of Mr. Fenn using a bike to help carry the weight of the chest. Would it be easy for him to keep the balance of the chest sitting upon the seat while holding on to the bike handle? Do you believe the chest was in plain view or perhaps hidden in a backpack?

          • I believe he did use something other than walking. I also believe the TC isn’t in Yellowstone or West Yellowstone. I also now think I understand why he needed to involve his lawyers.

            I start a new job on the 19th, so no idea if I can get out there soon. I can’t wait to share this solve.

            This is a repost due to me posting it in the wrong area.

        • Hi JDA,
          when you are walking and pull a bike/cart/wagon to carry weight on it you are still walking. IMO but Forrest refused to answer this question because he didn’t wanted to reveal some important hint/clue.
          “Methods of transportation” or Mode of transport is a term used to distinguish substantially different modes of conveyance. The different modes of transport are air, water, and land transport, which includes Rails or railways, road and off-road transport. Other modes also exist, including pipelines, cable transport, and space transport. Human-powered transport and animal-powered transport are sometimes regarded as their own mode, but never fall into the other categories.”
          For example, at parking lot Forrest took a bus shuttle to some other point. Or he took a boat shuttle to cross some lake (for example Jenny Lake in Teton park). In this case he definitely used other methods of transportation besides walking. Of course, he wants to keep this other method of transportation in secret because it will reveal one more hint/clue.

          • “Walk” can simply mean “move forward”. Might not be referring to a mode of transportation at all.

          • Interesting theory Andy. As I said, Only Forrest knows, and he has chosen not to answer. Find the treasure, and you can ask him – Maybe he will answer this time 🙂 JDA

      • meBigGuy – In the positive:

        History and Etymology for prevaricate
        Latin praevaricatus, past participle of praevaricari to act in collusion, literally, to straddle, from prae- + varicare to straddle, from varus bowlegged.

        Maybe ‘straddle’?:

        A backwardS bike
        Forrest’s one horse
        Forrest’s cute donkey
        Chip’s ATV
        A moped
        A fly fishing float tube

      • meBigGuy – In the negative:


        Quibble can also be a noun meaning “an evasion of or shift from the point” or “a minor objection or criticism.” Both forms of the word arrived in English in the mid-17th century. Presumably (though not certainly) quibble originated as a diminutive of a now obsolete word, quib, which also meant “quibble.” In fact, although language experts may quibble over this, there is a possibility that quib can be traced back to the plural of the Latin word qui, meaning “who,” which was often used in legal documents. If so, that makes quibble a very distant cousin of the English word who.

        Who ‘that’? A big Brown trout, or several, maybe? Or, did Forrest catch a ride with Chip or someone else???

      • Come on people. It makes sense that he waded, jogged, climbed, or crawled or something else on foot that was not precisely walking. Are people holding back here? I mean, really!!

        • meBigGuy – Me thinks: wading.


          That is similar to the the type of float tube my fly fishing librarian friend ‘straddled’ on Silver Creek on Sunday morning. And the same type she towed on a leash, to bring the bronze chest back, when she was Boots In The Water, at Baker’S Hole, at the end of May. It was a good plan, but the Spring Madison River current flipped it on the way over. In mid-August, like now, things would be different.

          With two people, I still believe paddling a canoe would be a better choice to get out to my hidey spot and to easily retrieve the bronze chest. Or maybe towing a sturdy dinghy? Forrest? What say you??

          • Lisa Cesari.

            I’ve always felt that he only walked to hide the treasure because of this exchange,

            Hi Forrest,
            You once said you walked the 92 miles from West Yellowstone to Bozeman to just experience it. Obviously you were much younger than you were when you hid the treasure. Too far to walk means different things at different ages so I was wondering if you would be so bold as to give an estimate of how far you walked to hide the treasure after leaving your car: was it >10miles, between 5 and 10 miles, between 1 and 5 miles, or less than 1 mile? ~Thanks, Ron

            “Ron, your question sounds like a travelogue, but I’ll answer it. No, I don’t want to be that bold. But I will say that I walked less than a few miles if that will help. I just looked “few” up and one definition is “scant.” Why do I sound like I’m talking in circles?” f


            Using some thing like a backpack and walking to hide his treasure….it seems that walking causes the least restriction to access the hiding place.

            Just Say’n

          • He did say that he walked less than a few miles…but to hide the treasure. He did not say what the total distance was for the 2 trips. Hmmm

          • James Collier,

            Less than a few miles would be at the most 2 miles. A few miles is 2 or more miles IMO.

            Also, this would be two round trips which would be about 1/2 a mile to the hide and 1/2 a mile back to the car, and he did this twice which equals 2 miles. IMO

        • For the first year or so, I thought he do-si-do’d. Then when done, swung his partner round n round n right off the edge of a cliff (‘two people can keep a secret…). But decided that’s not f’s style.

          So for the past couple of years, I’ve adopted the theory that he may have sashay’d. Not sure if he did or didn’t, but I will say that whenever I leave an established trail, the low-impact Sierra Club types are FAR less willing to approach me and vent their rage if I am sashaying. They tend to keep their distance with a rather perplexed and distressed look on their faces. And if you’re sashaying across a field of sage in chest waders — no one but NO ONE gonna bother you.

  24. Fundemental Design, if some 9 years after the event, the poem of 15 or so years of clever creation, we are still scratchin our heads for something complicated, that is in fact and may have always been in plain sight, some childrens nursery rhymes are truly sublime:

    Cushy cow bonny, let down thy milk,
    And I will give thee a gown of silk;
    A gown of silk and a silver tee,
    f thou wilt let down thy milk to me.

    Now tell me can you charm a cow to give more milk?

    Ding, dong, bell; Kitty’s in the well.
    Who put her in? Little Tommy Green.
    Who pulled her out? Little Tommy Trout.
    What a naughty boy was that,
    To drown poor Pussy Cat.

    Should be rated M for violence.

    In marble walls as white as milk,
    Lined with a skin as soft as silk,
    Within a fountain crystal clear,
    A golden apple doth appear,
    No doors there are to this stronghold,
    Yet things break in and steal the gold.

    Does this describe an egg. to a tee

    What is our riddle’s secret key?


  25. I have known Forrest Fenn for several years now and in that time that I have known him he has been a kind, caring and honest man.

    He has done a lot in his lifetime, most of the stuff that he has done we only get to dream about.

    Forrest however has also given a lot in return to his local community and further afield including what I believe to be his biggest boldest move of all TTOTC.

    IMO Forrest is a one off type of guy in which none of us will likely ever see again, he created a treasure hunt to get kids of their computers and bring families together to go out in to the Rocky Mountains and explore all of the other hidden treasures including indulgence.

    As you all know TTOTC started of small and has gone global, people come from every corner of the globe to look for Fenns hidden treasure.

    I have no doubt that Forrest has brought many happy memories to a lot of people over the past nine years.

    We also must not forget there has been tragedy as well.

    Forrest is the creator of this treasure hunt, if he say’s that it is not in a dangerous place then it is not in a dangerous place.

    Forrest is a truly unique guy who did not have to do what he did, if Forrest say’s anything more than twice then people should sit up and listen.

    Forrest treats everyone the same, he doesn’t give out special hints to some and not to others, once again he has been honest throughout the nine years that TTOTC has been running.

    I thank you Forrest for all the happy memories and hopefully more to come in TTOTC.


  26. Considering purchasing a property in my search area. That is how sure I feel that I’m in the right place. Would be an excellent place to retire someday.

    • Well, what a coincidence!. I am also so certain that I’m in the right search area (the Rocky Mts of the U.S. north of Santa Fe) that I am considering buying property there in order to retire after retrieving the Treasure.

      • I found the most beautiful piece of property in my search area. I’ve fallen in love with it. The price is good. I’m mulling it over. Maybe it would make FF happy to see how many people who are searching have fallen in love with the places they have discovered in the RMs

        • IMO, mull not. But it must be done for yourself if it feels right. If I had the means I would do the same in my area. As long as the possibility of not finding indulgence is of no consequence. In my area, for me (home away from home) it is not. It would be like livin the dream if you feel it in your guts, as long as it don’t make you crazy and drive you nuts. g

        • My area has so much to offer, but it seems I never have the time. So much to offer, so little time and i’ve barely wet a line. My friends ask, are you feeling alright. I thought you wanted to catch the big fish? I tell them six of one, but i’ve got to get more sleep, goodnight. This is my wish. g

  27. Where is my butterfly pic that is supposed to appear with my post? Anyone else having trouble with the correct image not appearing with post?

  28. Clint,
    You know where my butterfly pic is? I hope you aren’t holding it hostage in exchange for a piece of the TC. Lol. Or do you know where the property is that I’m considering buying in my search area? SInce I have given no clues to my location, you would need to be a mind reader. But if you are, maybe you can read FF’s mind and help me out here.

  29. Sorry Clint, You lost me. Not sure I understand what you are asking. But, I guess this rules out the possibility that you can read minds. So, not sure you can help me track down the TC. I will just keep working on my search location. Still considering the property for sale in my search area, but not divulging where that is.

        • Pdenver, that scene is definitely no place for the meek. Do you know where it was filmed?

          Also, I’ve wondered if Forrest wants to be interred in the same Native American way – on stilts where his spirit can fly free.
          That said, I believe I’ve already discovered where his physical body will Rest In Peace, but it’s not the same location of the treasure trove.

          • UTAH (thanks wicki)

            The movie used over 100 locations throughout 600 miles of the Utah wilderness. Redford often acted as a tour guide, and some scenes were actually on his property. Redford refused to do the movie if it wasn’t made in Utah. He later went on to form the Sundance Film Festival in the mountains of Park City.

          • Hello 42. It would be one way for him to throw himself “on top” of the treasure chest. I don’t know if he would choose to be interred this way, but with a spirit like his, it’s hard to say.

    • From B 178:
      “When I called Pony she made an appointment for the next afternoon. She wanted me to meet Cary Grant. I couldn’t have been more thrilled because To Catch a Thief was one of my favorite movies.”

        • What I thought things were looking backup for BOTG..
          Is GrandPa leading the search. Yah but the not funny part
          is I think he has the team to do it. That would be great.
          It seams the design needs a chaser to find it and come
          forward to complete what is presented to us.
          So someone has a job to do. Kids have an advantage.
          Maybe someone will solve the poem and find the chest.
          We are counting on you JDA.
          Stay safe Chasers.

  30. This is one of my favorite ATF’s:

    Q: Did the same 9 clues exist when you were a kid and to your estimation will they still exist in 100 years and 1000 years? “The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might still exist in 100 years but the geography probably will change before we reach the next millennia.”

    How do you deal with the word “most” in your solve? Or, do you bother? What is it that didn’t exist when he was a kid?


    • This is one of many ATFs that I did not use to build my solve, but I did use as part of my confirmation bias once I had my solve. At least one (and possibly more than one) of the places that I found the clues pointing to did not exist when FF was a kid. (Of course the physical space existed – but the place, as it currently manifests and is described in the poem, did not exist when he was a kid.)

      • **** **** **** ****
        “This is one of many ATFs that I did not use to build my solve, but I did use as part of my confirmation bias once I had my solve.”
        **** **** **** ****

        I see what you did there, and don’t necessarily disagree with how you did it, but I think you need a different term for it.

        “Confirmation Bias – the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that affirms one’s prior beliefs or hypotheses. It is a type of cognitive bias and a systematic error of inductive reasoning.”

    • mBG,
      Could be WWWH….if it refers to SWT in NM. SWT did not exist when FF was a kid. Also, a state park,if it is part of the solve, may not have been around then.
      As always, IMO.

    • In logic (which Forrest frequently brings up) “most of the places” is not exclusive of “all of the places.” 5 out of 9 is a majority; so is 9 out of 9.

  31. Wondering if anyone knows…

    Has FF ever stated why 44lbs? (Or the now quoted 42lbs)?

    Out of all the possible “total pounds” it could have weighed, I was wondering why that.

    • James Collier,

      I believe the last time 44 lbs was brought up was in 2013. This may have changed because FF had the records of every item in the chest including the chest. He may have gone back to add up the total weight.

      Its probably the best guess as to why.

      • “Yup. I remember it quite well. He was always in the backyard with that dang weight set. He only put 44 lbs on the barbells though. Strangest thing. But he worked out pert near every day as I recall”
        –lLester Quimby, former neighbor of Forrest Fenn

        • The above quote is not the least bit true but was a sorry attempt at humor. Forrest never had a neighbor named Lester Quimby, nor did he work out with weights as was claimed above.

          • Sparrow,

            I don’t see the humor as pdenver said, some folks may take your post serious. So why post at all in that manner?

          • Charlie—-

            As Dudley Moore said in the movie “Arthur”—–“sometimes I just think funny things”.

            If you took the post seriously my apologies. I didn’t think anyone would believe an 80 year old man would work out with 44 lbs on barbells in his back yard–but I guess it is possible. 🙂

    • James Collier,
      It would be nice to solve that 42 lb “why” mystery or get Forrest to answer the question.

      In the past, he said (paraphrased) he spent years crafting the poem; rarely plans things, but his treasure hunt is the one thing he planned. Everything related to TTOTC treasure seems to have been completed with purpose and specificity. So, why 42 lbs. Past blog discussions have pointed towards the philosophical significance attached to number 42. That’s not specific enough for me to give credence over something more meaningful to ff. For instance: One scenario could be…if you were carrying an injured 42 lb child out of the wilderness to get medical help, any distance is too far to walk. If you did not get help in time, that weight would trouble you for a lifetime.

      All just my opinions

  32. If you made a chart
    with the 9 clues in the x-axis
    and the distance in the y-axis
    would it be decreasing? or going up and down?

    • Would positive numbers for distance be on the right side of “x”, or since we are going down, or South, the left side? Or, is one step forward considered positive, so wouldn’t mean anything going South.
      I say everything will do it’s work in the second quadrant. Increase distance while increasing clues. Sooo, increasing-up.

  33. Edith: “Why does Sparrow post things like that Ar-chie? Some people might take him all serious”.
    Archie: “‘Cause he’s a meathead Edith. He’s missin’ a sparkplug Edith*

  34. Question for everyone, just because I’m curious:

    Has anyone ever found out the reason FF circled Edard, Pat, and Kacir in the Lanier School picture?

  35. So much to do with the classmates issue! Those are friends of FF and the circles are hand drawings. There’s nothing there except rabbit holes. Come on folks, just use common sense and not worry about a photo, more time should be spent on finding the chest! Note below the answer of FF, he says “text”

    If your looking for the subtle hints in TTOTC, the best advise is those hints are in the text.

    Q. Will the subtle clues in the book be explained somewhere, sometime? (Maybe you have a book to be published once the chest is found?)

    A. “The hints in The Thrill of the Chase text will not be made public because they would say more than I want to reveal. Discovering which hints to use is part of the mystery.”f

    Just Say’n

  36. Odds to an ending….

    I believe the poem not only indicates Forrest’s R.I.P. view aka Marvel Gaze, as well as Skippy’s, June’s, his mother’s and father’s Rip marvelous views. Nope, not from their headstones in Texas. IMO the poem’s content honors very special favorite Montana views that each of his family members most enjoyed.
    I haven’t figured out Forrest’s last best place yet. I think ff placed some of Skippy & June’s ashes in their marvel gazes. Curious? Here are my poem-educated guesses:

    1. June Gay’s RIP marvel gaze: Ousel Falls, Lone Mountain – Big Sky, Montana (or Ophir, meaning gold) as Big Sky was called of yore.

    2. Skippy’s RIP marvel gaze: Eden Valley, Belly River Valley from the ptarmigan tunnel in Glacier National Park. One of the most spectacular views in N. America. Facing East towards the Indian lands of the Blackfoot nation.

    I also believe the poem leads you to Skippy’s Watery grave. I Would love for Forrest to confirm whether my finding is correct…was Skippy was diving off Isla Isle, Quintana Roo?

    3. Forrest’s Mom: the last place she saw her beloved twin sister Willie Mae; could be in Texas or near Hebgen Lake. IMO Willie strangely disappeared with a red man.

    4. Forrest’s Dad: this is one is harder to nail down. Best guess is Cameron, Montana looking at Sphinx mountain and the Helmet from the great bend of the Madison.

    5. Forrest’s R.I.P. marvel gaze… nope, not telling, not certain anyway.

  37. Can anyone help me understand a comment Forrest made in his may interview with German playboy?

    In speaking about someone finding the treasure chest, Forrest states with some degree of emphasis that the finder will be “opening Pandora’s box.”

    What the heck? Why would finding his treasure be like opening Pandora’s box?

    A couple of definitions:

    1. a process that generates many complicated problems as the result of unwise interference in something.
    “these policies might open a Pandora’s box of inflationary wage claims”


    2.According to Hesiod, when Prometheus stole fire from heaven, Zeus, the king of the gods, took vengeance by presenting Pandora to Prometheus’ brother Epimetheus. Pandora opened a jar left in his care containing sickness, death and many other unspecified evils which were then released into the world.

    Sickness, death, unspecified evils?

    What the heck Forrest? Are we in “peril” as you once stated on Mysterious Writings, or are you just having a bit of fun, stirring the kettle?

    • 42;

      Who-ever finds Indulgence in in for a lot of life changes. Notoriety, fame etc.
      Having (probably) more money than one has ever had – This can be a blessing, or the opposite.

      There will be doubters – No way, you could have never figured it out, you must have had help etc. etc. etc.

      Relatives and or “pan-handlers” will come out of the bushes. Every-one will have a sob story, and needs help, and how could you be so callous as to not help “me” out?

      Forrest KNOWS what it is like to be rich, and the perils there-of. The finder will be new to this arena.

      These, I think are the perils Forrest speaks of JMO – JDA

      • TYPO – No way, you could have never figured it out, you must have had help etc. etc. etc.- Should be EVER not Never – JDA

      • Thanks JDA & Muset,
        I appreciate your input.
        The only way to avoid the unwanted attention would be to legally require the IRS to keep silent about income taxes due.

        I for one would NEVER want anyone to know. No media, no look at me etc
        Complete silence may allow one to have some control over what to do with it.

    • In Longman’s Dictionary Of Contemporary English, the definition is broadened to mean “to do or start something that will cause a lot of other problems.”

      There will probably be a short but intense barrage of media attention and questions. The treasure’s value will depend a lot on the whole story from the book to the adventure of the solution. It would be wise for the finder to have his/her story ready in advance.

      Also, the IRS will immediately want their cut but the finder probably won’t have that cash lying around. That would put pressure on selling for less than its true value.

  38. JDA, no need for me to look at the legalities since I don’t possess the treasure; and I’m married to a tax attorney.

    I’ve thought a lot about this the past 6 years…If I did know where the treasure lies, I’m inclined to walk away and leave it there…for many of the reasons you mentioned, and because ff has yet to clarify why he said searchers are in peril.

    • 42 , just as paying a lot in taxes, finding the Chest would be a very good problem to have . Pandora’s box only opens when dropped . With wisdom being a central theme in the ” Chase ” your forecast calls for clear skies. It’s also possible that instructions are included free of charge for the finder if wisdom needs a hand up. Carry on worry free 42 .

      • Let’s briefly take a look at the poem:

        With my treasure bold
        I can keep my secret where,

        What if his comment about opening Pandora’s box means in relation to his “secret.” What if he has kept a secret all these years that is life altering?

          • I could elaborate about said secrets as revealed in TTOTC poem but they aren’t my secrets to discuss. They are Forrest’s. He wrote for all to see, and all to seek his truth. IMO it’s all up for interpretation and only ff knows if I interpreted correctly. He’s not talking.

            According to his poem, one place Warm waters halt is at truth. IMO he has told the raw truth about himself and his natal family…the good, the bad, the ugly.

  39. I’ve been reviewing FF’s books when not searching this week. So, I’ve been making observations of connections I had not noticed before.

    TFTW- p 7, FF talks about his father’s Trophy Hat. I like this story. So ingenious to use a hat as a tacklebox. But I think there is some symbolism in here. I noticed that FF talks about his parents having fish fries and inviting the neighbors. I’m always interested when FF talks about his “jobs”. I think there is a lot of signifiance in his jobs, and I think they tell the story of the place where the TC is hidden. But, anyway; FF’s job in this story was to pick up the trash, which fits so very nicely with my potential solve. Anyway; if you skip a few pages ahead to page 25 of TFTW, you read the story of Prehistoric Friends. I notice that FF talks about his friend Bill Fyke, who collected arrow heads. Bill named his son Flint Fyke. Well; obviously, anyone who has done much camping knows that Flint can be used to start a fire. But, I didn’t know what Fyke was. So, I looked it up. It is a fish trap. I find it very interesting that basically the name Flint Fyke means a fish trap in which the fish are cooked with a flame, just like the “fish fry” that FF’s parents had when he was young. Flint Fyke is another way of saying Fish Fry or Fish Cook. I think this is interesting, and just thought I would share.

    Personally, I do not believe that HOB is related to Brown Trout, though I”m sure some would jump in here to say that is what this means. I think this info is significant, but Not really about fishing in the traditional sense.

    Just sharing!

  40. Just thought I would share another connection Im thinking about. OUAW, chapter 11, FF talks about exploring the spice drawer while his wife is out shopping. He discusses sampling Cloves and describes it as “taste has a bite that comes with a LASTING STING”. I recognized those words, “lasting sting” from another chapter in the book TTOTC, Epilogue. In the Epilogue, FF says that “embarressing incidents educate the best and the fastest and can come withat a LASTING STING”. Interestingly, FF had mentioned that there were 3 jars of cloves in the spice drawer. Clove comes from the word Clou (clue). He finishes the story of the spice drawer by saying that his wife has come home and he hoped she didn’t buy another jar of cloves.

    So basically, I don’t think the cloves themselves are important. I think the clue is important, and I think the clue is that “embarressing incidents educate the best and fastest and can come with a LASTING STING”.

    Again; just thought I would share.

      • I’ve seen the scrapbook page. I just thought I would share my review of it. I find it interesting that FF says that Cloves have a lasting sting. And, he mentions again the lasting sting in the Epilogue of TTOTC. I think the lasting sting is important.

        • Flutterby,

          For the word Cloves, I went a little bit further for the word “Clovis” and its definition:

          The name Clovis is of French origin. The meaning of Clovis is “famous warrior”.

          Famous warrior, who could that be? Maybe this may be a hint to a place for a man or Indian………Hummm……

          • Yes. I am familiar with Clovis. Just don’t think it applies here. But, I am concerned about your statement, “hint to a place for a man or Indian. . . ” Why separate Indian from a man as if they are not one and the same. Maybe it was a typo. I hope so!

      • Thanks Dal, Charlie, flutteryby for the cloves info. Very interesting that its origins link to warrior.

        Because Forrest enjoys word play, and runes/petroglyphs… I’m guessing he may enjoy Letter play as well.

        For fun and IMO…

        cloves = C loves or loves C, C looks like omega and 2 c’s is where the poem tells us to cease.

        cloves = looks like doves. There is a dove on the moon on the final page of TTOTC.

        Misspelled or anagrammed Cloves could be vesol C
        Vessel shaped like a C or cup

  41. When I think of “lasting sting”, I think of loss or punishment or guilt (or some combination of
    those things). More emotional than physical.

    Loss is something most people experience, in various ways. I don’t think of this as anything
    particularly unusual. Same with punishment, and same with guilt.

    Broadly speaking, not a large percentage of people engage physically in military combat. I never have. Therefore, I won’t pretend to know what it’s like, or how it can affect a warrior.

    I tend to agree with the old saying “war is hell”, and can imagine that a warrior who has been physically engaged in military combat could feel some guilt about having been engaged in this (especially if not drafted). From what I have heard, some very strong/deep friendships
    have been formed between/among military personnel. And it is certainly possible that one’s
    friends or family members may be killed or severely injured by combat.

    So far, I don’t see much connection with cloves. And I don’t think I need to mention the old
    saying “variety is the spice of life”. As always, this message is part of my opinion.

      • James Collier,
        Regarding Nye, Montana…
        Along the Still Water River canyon which runs through Nye, several very lucrative mines continue to extract Platinum. My research showed Nye to be the only place in the USA with large platinum deposits. The words Still…Water run together in the poem as well as the name of that mine. Here’s the ? Did FF invest in new platinum riches? Or is he drawing attention to conserving the buffalo jump at Nye before mining swallows it up?

  42. Can someone post a link to ff comment about TFTW book? Did he ever stare what the unintended clue was? I think I remember reading about him saying something about the rubber dingy was the clue?

    Is that correct?

    • James – I don’t remember him saying that in so many words but I do believe it may bare quite a bit of importance. He plays around with words so much and seems to duck the issue when pinned down to explain.

    • I will paraphrase what he said, as it was in an interview with Lorene Mills I believe, 2014 or 2015. I cannot find the video anywhere on the internet now, but I remember the comment with accuracy. She asked about this unintended clue in the book. He commented that he had not realized he put it in there until after the book was published. And then after what I believe was a chuckling banter between the two, he got kind of serious and said something to the effect, “When you read the book, normally you wouldn’t see the clue”…short stuttering pause…”But if you can find it…it’s important.”

      That’s the best I can do without video evidence. I don’t remember anything about a rubber dingy. In a separate video interview Moby Dickens November 2013 he answered an internet question:
      “How many people have told you, they’ve discovered the unintended clue in TFTW and how many were right?” and he responded, “Well, I have not had anybody tell me … the answer to that clue.” at 38:00

      hope that helps

      • Gosh Iron Will, you’re quick! I guess I was too busy watching the video and didn’t notice you already posted it. 🙂

      • Iron Will – From Dal’s latest “Give Me a Break” solve:

        I believe “it” refers to the Madison River.

        So do I, Dal. In the Poem, and in this quote you paraphrased above, Iron Will, and in many other ATF quotes from Forrest:

        “When you read the book, normally you wouldn’t see the clue”…short stuttering pause…”But if you can find it…it’s important.”

        I agree, Forrest. Find “IT”…”IT’S” important. Or, ‘IT•S’ is important, maybe?


      • IronWill: would have chimed in with the relevant part of the transcript earlier but have been on vacation (up in Mammoth Lakes and Yosemite) the last few days. It’s from Dorothy’s “Collected Words” radio show (9/26/2013) at the 48:00 mark, following closing remarks by Dorothy about the inclusion of Benchmark Maps insert map at the end of TFTW. Forrest comments: “Well, there’s a clue in this book that I didn’t know was going to be in the book.”

        Dorothy: “Oh! What’s that?”
        FF: “Well, I’m not gonna say. You’re gonna have to find it for yourself, Dorothy …”
        Dorothy: “Now, I read it twice, so I …” FF: “Normally, you would not find this clue, but it’s an important clue if you can find it.”
        Dorothy: “Thank you very much, I’m going right back home and reading it again.”

        As of 11/2/2013, no one had told Forrest the answer to the unintended clue in TFTW. The exclusion of Canada from the search area on the map seems too obvious for no one to have mentioned it to Forrest.

        However, in Dal’s Nine Clues Part 25, in response to remarks about there being a clue in the Preface of TFTW (i.e. the 10-mile comment), Forrest wrote (1/19/2014 4:58 pm): “I said in an interview that there was a clue in the book, not the preface, that I didn’t realize was there until after the book was printed. Some have discovered it already.” So multiple people figured out what it was in the intervening 2 1/2 months.

        • Zaphod,
          Yosemite is my neck of the woods. I’m 20 min from Yosemite.

          I believe I told FF the unintended clue last spring. I think at least a dozen people know what it is. IMO

        • Hi Flutterby: I’ve long had a theory about what the answer is, and the only reason I question whether it’s correct is that I’ve seen no evidence on the blogs that anyone else has come up with the same idea. Not that that’s a meaningful metric; after all, I haven’t posted what I think it is, so I shouldn’t be surprised if others would also remain mum.

          Since the clue was unintended, it’s clear (at least to me) that it isn’t in any part of the book that Forrest wrote. That’s why I immediately discounted the 10-mile business in the Preface: Forrest wrote it, therefore it’s hard to argue that an unintended clue could be hidden there.

          • Hi Zaphod;

            On page 177 there is a picture of a Stone Worker’s hammer and chisel. I doubt that Forrest knew that this picture would appear.

            I think that this is the unintended hint.

            Once Indulgence is found, I think that it will be disclosed that the finder, found a stone with a chiseled mark on the “Tarry Scant” that is atop of a hole that contains Indulgence – much like the illustration on page 218 (Charmey and Me) JMO – and I am probably wrong – JDA

          • Zaphod,
            I’ve never seen anyone state what I think the answer is. But, I think it’s been hinted between the lines. And, just because people know the unintended clue, doesn’t mean they understand it. IMO

      • Thank you all…hmmm very interesting. So the rubber dingy quote may not even be the clue. He said “doesn’t take a genius to figure out what they’re talking about.” Yet, doesn’t specifically state that’s it because no one has told him the correct answer.

  43. Takin a break to drop college kids off. Will be back to chasing soon.

    Think I figured something out and I’m very pleased. Bet FF would be proud. A while ago, I think I figured out why FF used the money he made making marbles to buy a coke and an icecream. I’ve been hung up on Fritos. I’m literally jumping for joy that I think I’ve figured it out. So happy! It really is so simple and makes so much sense.

      • Just know that it is important. Marbles, Coke, Fritos, Icecream. There is a connection and it is important IMO. Took me 3 years to figure it out, but “worth the cold” IMO

        • Flutterby – Are you talking about the white salt-like precipitates I saw on logs in pools on the Firehole Canyon Road stretch and below Madison Junction in the rivers? Where the ‘Warm Water Salt’, maybe?:

          “The salt caused the soda to produce carbon dioxide gas. … It’s also what makes the bubbles in soda—and makes us burp when we drink it. At soda bottling plants, carbon dioxide from tanks is pumped into the liquid, where it dissolves and later forms bubbles.”

          Silica dioxide, key to the formation of Forrest’s Aggies, is closely related to carbon dioxide. Fritos are salty. Ice cream is churned and chilled with rock salt.

          Firehole Falls and the section of the Gibbon River above Madison Junction churn those silicates in the warm waters from the many thermal features along those rivers upstream. At Madison Junction, and just above and below, where “IT” begins, the ‘waters’ slow down in the meadow, and the silicates begin to deposit. That’s good habitat for Mayflies and other fly species to deposit their eggs on the surface of the slower water, sinking into the silt and gravel. And when they hatch, the big Browns and Rainbows start sippin’. They also lay their eggs in Redds there, during the Spring and Fall spawns in these prime fly fishing areas.

          Thank you again for teaching me to fish, Forrest! And I don’t just mean fly fishing.

          • Lisa,
            Sounds like you have done your homework on the area you are searching. I’m not in that area and as far as I know, there are no current searchers in my area. But, you have an idea of what I am saying. Marbles, Coke, Fritos, Ice Cream all, IMO describe a geographic location. I believe that all of FF’s stories describe the wider area around the place where he hid the TC. IMO, the stories that are Forrest’s are also the story of how the location near the TC was formed over millions of years. Chronologically, the formation of the area lines up with the stories in FF’s memories. IMO

  44. I am broken hearted today to hear about the death of Molly, Cynthia’s hiking buddy and furry companion. You can read Cynthia’s story on her blog, here:

    For a story and photos about searching with Cynthia and the wonderful Molly on Grayling Creek, look here:

    If you want to stop by Cynthia’s blog and wish Molly and Cynthia peace…that would be nice.

    • Cynthia, I do not use facebook for comments, but still wanted to show my appreciation for you, your blog and Molly, they have been great photos, and windows to alternative Kodak moments. We are all, just what we can manage to remember.

  45. In my opinion, most people could learn something from Forrest if they weren’t so focused on finding the treasure. The first time I read TTOTC, I thought Forrest was an idiot- sorry Forrest if you are reading this. But, the more I have read, the more I realize that Forrest is very intelligent and has a lot to teach younger generations. It took some study of his writings to figure this out. I realize most folks are into the chase for the elusive treasure chest. Some of us are into it for other reasons. I’m into it for the puzzle and reading Forrest’s words is helping to unravel the puzzle. But, it seems to me that most people (not pointing fingers here) are missing what Forrest is actually saying because they are so focused on getting rich. Personally, I think Forrest Fenn could and should be a college course. Dropping our college kids off this week and wishing that all kids this age could learn more about this brilliant man and understand the way he thinks. So, I am just wondering if anyone would like to share an opinion on a quote from Too Far To Walk, p 124.

    “Our cry should be ‘Let’s just leave other folks alone unless they attack us.’ And if they do, let’s not fight back with rifles and hand grenades. Its stupid for so many young men and women to be killed by land mines, roadside bombs and snipers when we have such awesome technologies available.”

    What do all of you think Forrest is actually saying here? I think he is saying that communication is our greatest tool for solving problems. Has anyone else ever mailed Forrest a certified letter or mail that he had to sign for? I did a while back. When it got deliver, he signed for it and USPS let me see the signature to be sure it was his. Interestingly, it appeared that he signed it F Penn. Could have been a scribble. But, it left me wondering if it was intentional and suggested “Pen” or writing and communication. Might have been nothing more than a scribbled signature, but I found it interesting because I’ve been studying his writing and believe he is one of the most gifted writers I’ve ever seen. On the surface, his stories are interesting and fun to read. But, there is more to them. They tell an underlying story that carries through all of his books related to the chase. I think his stories tell the story of the place the TC is hidden. Its a story that goes back tens of thousands of years, and describes the way the TC location was geographically formed. When I see a word that appears to have symbolism in one story, that same word used in another story carries the same symbolism. So, enough of my rambling. What do all of you think of the quote above about leaving other folks alone and using better technologies than war?

    • A quote worth pondering Flutter. I think maybe this quote from his book might have two different meanings, which is not unusual for Forrest Fenn. One (as you say) is a plea to counter future aggression with diplomacy and reason as opposed to violence and mass death. On another and darker level however, Forrest could be saying “we should employ the technology of our US military superiority in future wars in place of ground troops”. So here’s a thought about a possible connection to the Chase:

      Rational thinking and careful reasoning are preferable to “boots on the ground”.

      Just one of many possibilities imo.


    • Hello FB. I remember when you sent your special package to FF, and the photos thereof, but not the “F Penn” portion of the story. My own handwriting is terrible, borderline horrendous, but add an electronic gadget with a stylus and a tiny electronic signature pad to the mix and it jumps right to atrocious when I sign my name. Since FF did not know what was in the package you sent him, I’d have to lean towards a case for poor penmanship over a subtle nod to any particular theory.

      As to the line from the book, rifles and hand grenades place our troops directly into the fray whereas advanced technology such as unmanned bomber drones, patriot missiles, etc. place those same troops many miles away where they have a substantially increased likelihood of surviving the war. In this case, as opposed to participating in TTOTC, I think FF is discouraging BOTG.

      All IMHO.

      • Bowmarc;

        Not sure why you would say that ” I think FF is discouraging BOTG.”
        He has repeatedly said that the reason that he created the chase was to get kidd out of their game rooms and texting machines (paraphrasing).

        Forrest grew up as an adventurer- sliding down the rail – his summers in or near Yellowstone, his trips to the rivers with his father, searching for arrowheads etc. The out-of-doors are a part of who Forrest is, and hew wants us to share his wonderment.

        Sorry, I just do not understand your statement – JDA

        • The quote by FB is in reference to war, JDA. In war, the use of rifles and hand grenades means our troops are basically fighting hand-to-hand with the enemy, AKA BOTG. Via the use of our advances technologies such as drones and LR missles, we can take our troops off the hand-to-hand battlefields and keep them safe and alive, hence keeping them from having to be BOTG.

          Hope this clears up your confusion.

  46. Lots of new posts lately… Seems a bit early for an end of season dumping. Dal, have you been on vacation?

    The conspiracy theory part of me reads it as cleaning out the cupboards ahead of something big expected in the near future, but that’s just probably reckless speculation.

  47. Did’nt Mr. Fenn say that it was only two or three people that had emailed him with the first two clues? If it was only two or three people out of thousands that have searched, it wouldn’t seem that the first two clues are not in a popular search area, but it seems doubtful that the poem leads to a remote spot , the hiding place being family friendly.

  48. Any help, please?

    Sometime, fairly recently, a post was made somewhere that indicated a good friend had a personal meeting with ff and something was shared (some new information) regarding the Chase. The friend went on to reply, something to the effect of, “but I will never tell.”

    In the rush of life and all its distractions, I saw the above described scenario but obviously cant remember any of the details. I want to say it was a D. Preston meeting.

    Does that ring anybody’s bell???

    • Ethical D,
      I don’t get to read everything on here and oftentimes I’m days late but I’ve not seen anything. Integrity comes to mind but that’s prolly not the discussion. My 2 gigs don’t get me very far and it’s slow loading after that so my sleuthing has dwindled greatly.


    • ED;

      Not sure what you are referencing, but in a recent post – SB – 203 there was this:

      “So we both laughed as he wrote, “I gave you hell,”…” This is as close as I can come – JDA

    • Thanks, Guys. It was a very short blurb. Yet had a distinct message about the Chase and the friends commitment not to tell.

  49. Tue story, it happened on my last BOTG. A funny thing happened to me on the way to treasure the other day. My son and I were sitting at our camp when a four wheeler came up and drove in and about our stuff scoping it and us out. This is weird I thought. I jumped up to block his exit and chat with the fella for a bit. He turned off his machine and said sorry didn’t mean to come driving through your camp like that, which he most obviously did. Nice spot you got her he said. Yes I replied, this whole area is amazing. You ever cross here and go into that valley he asked. Yep, I said. You ever go to where the water is coming out of the ground he asked. Such a cool spot, I answered. Then, I suddenly got a feeling that I knew what this guy was all about. I said to him, your a treasure hunter aren’t you. Ya, he answered. You mean the weed, right? No I said, a real treasure worth a lot, hidden somewhere around here. Then we both stopped and stared at each other. Me wishing I could just say, treasure? what treasure? And he, weed? who said anything about any weed? Sill we just stood there wondering how we could have both let our secrets slip so easily. And with that and a simple mutual nod we parted ways with the unspoken understanding that we would each leave each others indulgences alone. g

  50. Sorry to have you all read through my hack job of punctuation and such. Obviously I haven’t studied much into the rules of grammar. I will someday, but if you know what i’m saying… g

  51. I found something interesting today. I was searching through some old ff videos looking for the apparent deep seeded reason I capitalize Know every time I write it. What I stumbled upon may be even more interesting. Forrest has a tell. It would seem though the end points are at or close to 100 percent, getting there is sometimes bridged by the allowed 80 percent wiggle room. An honest man can not hide the whole truth all the time. g

    • I have a thought about this. IMO, we’ll never see a tell from Forrest where the poem or the treasure is concerned. It is straightforward. g

  52. As we ponder the question of where an 80 year old could have gone in hiding the treasure. Consider Fred Beckey, a legendary mountaineer, and what he was able to accomplish at that age. I suspect Forrest was somewhere on that broad spectrum between an ordinary 80 year old in good health and Fred Becky’s capability at that age. It’s a wide spectrum, but something to consider.

  53. I just now saw on Cynthia’s blog that her sweet doggie Molly passed away a couple days ago. I missed Dal’s announcement up-thread. Deepest sympathy to Cynthia. I’ve enjoyed Cynthia’s search reports for all the pictures she includes, many with Molly. I hope she adopts another; the shelters are full, sadly. I think the biggest problem with dogs is that we out-live them. But that just allows us to experience more of them, each with their own distinct character.

    • I too missed the posting about Molly. I’m Sorry for your loss Cynthia; The two of you had lots of fine times together – Best wishes – JDA

  54. As just about all of you know Mr Fenn’s 89th birthday is August 22nd.
    So if anyone would like to send Forrest a birthday card, his PO box address is:

    Forrest Fenn
    PO Box 8174
    Santa Fe, NM 87504

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