Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Eighty Seven

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Please click on the comment balloon below to contribute to the discussion of  Forrest Fenn’s Treasure Hunt. Please note that many topics have their own pages. Please scroll through the blog to see all the discussion pages. There are also stories, scrapbooks, searcher’s reports general information, tips from Forrest, a rumors blog and even email responses from Forrest. So please look around and if you want to make a comment please use the most appropriate page.

Thanks…

 

dal…

637 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Eighty Seven

    • After reading this I figured I’d look to see what national parks exist in Ohio. I knew of a couple of them but there were a few more than I anticipated. Unfortunately, the parks in Ohio are not in the same league as those in the western states. I suppose if those beautiful parks were in my own backyard, I’d likely take them for granted. I can’t wait to head west again and search my spot but it may not happen this year… we are so understaffed at work.

      I hope that those of you close to these parks take advantage of the freebie and enjoy nature!

      TimM

      • There is one place in Ohio that is quite spectacular in meaning: the Serpent Mound. It represents the largest constellation, that is so big it cannot be seen in one sky view, but few know that.

    • Well, if anyone is heading into Yosemite to see the park for free, just know that you will not be able to stop anywhere to hike around or see anything outside your car. Its bumper to bumper every time they do the free admission day. No place to park your car and no chance you will have any peace or quiet. We stay at home, 20 min from the park and try not to notice the bumper to bumper traffic heading in and out of the park and the exasperated faces of those who never managed to get out of their cars. Its seriously worth the money to go on a pay to enter day and really enjoy the beauty. Better still; buy a yearly pass to all National Parks and see as many as you can in a year. So worth the money! IMO

      • Hi Flutterby: Yosemite traffic was surprisingly clear all day Friday a week ago — we were expecting a bit of a last hurrah crowd prior to kids heading back to school. But we had no problem parking at Tuolumne Meadows, Tenaya Lake, Olmsted Point, May Lake, or any of the popular Valley destinations — including even the ever-popular-at-sunset “Tunnel View.” But I’m not surprised that the hordes would want to take advantage of skipping the $35 entrance fee. I always get the annual National Parks Pass — a much better deal for $80. Still, you can’t beat the deal that Dal got before the lifetime pass price went up!

        • Zaphod,
          Schools started in California two days before you visited Yosemite. So, you went on a good day. Glad you got to visit. We love Yosemite as much as Forrest loves Yellowstone. Love all the National Parks, but we are just lucky that Yosemite is in our backyard.

          • Once my kids had just gotten out of school for the year and the city kids still had two days left. I told them this is the perfect time to go to the amusement park. No lines at the rides, this is gonna be great. Well, guess where all the city kids go for their end of the year field trip. Busier than I had ever seen it. g

    • When I went to the Function at the Junction. I was able to buy my lifetime National Park Pass.
      Looking forward to using it again soon! Oh the benefits of being officially a senior.

      • The free days are crowded but the National Park Service also offer a free lifetime pass to those with disabilities and those don’t have to be very severe. Any VA disability rating gets it. Also active military can get a free annual pass. Or if you have a fourth grader in the house they can get a free annual pass. Since the pass is good for your full car load of people, just drag them off the couch and they can get you in the parks for free on the less crowded days. https://www.nps.gov/planyourvisit/passes.htm

        • Wow, I checked into it and it turns out you are right. Vets with 10% or higher disability get a free lifetime pass. I have been buying annual passes the last few years, lol. At least it goes to helping out the parks. Thanks for sharing, you have saved me future pass purchases.

          Also, I had family in town and we went to check out Cabrillo National Monument on the free day. I didn’t realize it was a free day, pulled out my park pass with a smile on my face only to be told it was a free day. Oh and yeah it was crowded, but still a good time 🙂

          • Aaron, are you talking about Point Loma when you mention Cabrillo National Monument? I grew up in San Diego.

          • Yes I am Kurt. It is one of the places we take visiting out of towners.

            “I grew up in San Diego.” It begs to question why anyone would move away from San Diego.

          • I agree Aaron. If I could afford it, I would move to San Diego in a heart-beat. LOVE IT THERE!!! JDA

          • I understand where you are coming from JDA, we do pay more than most for our weather.

            Kurt, you’re right Sana Barbra is not too shabby indeed.

          • I, for one, chose to pursue my career (1980). I miss SD but its not the same place I moved from. Growing up in SD was awesome! But my home now is the PNW. Beautiful area and affordable!

          • Michael, did you graduate high school or college in 1980? I am class of ’80 Patrick Henry High School.

          • My stepson’s first day at Patrick Henry was yesterday. We are in San Carlos.

            A treasure related point. I’ve made the 15 hour drive to West Yellowstone, but now normally fly to Salt Lake and drive up from there. Stayed in JDA’s town for the night the last time we went 🙂

          • I lived in Allied Gardens. Great memories prior to so much construction. Endless canyons to explore as a kid.

          • Hi Aaron: like you, I’ve done the full, roundtrip drive from southern California to YNP once before (and with a dog who decided on that trip that she no longer liked long car rides!) But we combined that with many other places along the way including Zion and Sundance. For strictly treasure hunting trips, the hybrid approach is best: cheap flight from Long Beach to Salt Lake on JetBlue, rent a car, and drive up to West Yellowstone via I-15 and 20 (passing through JDA’s hometown, of course). Have stayed in Pocatello at least a couple times — Aaron, did you happen to hit Jim Dandy Brewing? I definitely recommend the place — very nice people working there, and their beer is decent.

            Which segues to San Diego — anyone who is a beer aficionado and has ever lived in San Diego county but moved away has to go through some serious withdrawal. There is no higher concentration of breweries anywhere else in the world, and most of them are fabulous.

          • Hi Kurt: Santa Barbara is a favorite weekend destination for me and my wife and our pooch. Nice weather year-round, good restaurants and bars on State St., many dog-friendly places, and the wineries of Santa Ynez just up the road. We love Carmel as well, though winters there are obviously colder and wetter than Santa Barbara. Unfortunately, that wonderful temperate climate in S.B. is also very attractive to the homeless, which I can only assume have increased in numbers over the last few years.

          • I’ll bet there was Kurt.

            Zap, If I do another road trip I may hit Zion on the way, prefer to fly though. Usually fly Southwest but I’ll check Jet Blue’s prices next time. Too bad about the dog.. I have not tried Jim Dandy Brewing, but I am making a note of it for next time.

            You are right about San Diego breweries. I’ll never be able to try every one of them, but I do enjoy trying 🙂

          • Zap – Same goes for you – Next time you pass through Pokey – stop and we can have a bite or sip a coffee, or a toddy – JDA

          • Will do JDA. Last time we got in at around 9 pm or I would have let you know then. We woke up early for a drive to a search location.

          • Hi JDA: sounds like Aaron was on the same time-table I was when I went through earlier this year: a little too late in the evening to align well with your schedule. Those early afternoon west coast flights always get you into Pocatello around 9 by the time you drive from SLC. But if ever I catch a morning flight, I’ll let you know. I may have one more trip in me this search season — I know exactly where I want to go, but not yet so exactly that I could guarantee “knowingly walking within several steps of the treasure chest.” I am firm in my belief that you have to have that before you go, or you will end up just having a nice vacation (and frankly if it’s a vacation, I’d rather be in Maui than Montana).

          • Zap, if you let me know when you go, and we get earlier flights, perhaps we can both hit up JDA on the way. I’m still not sure if I’m going. What I have right now isn’t totally solid because it is hard to tell if I need to be on site for remaining clues. I never mind a Yellowstone vacation, but do miss Maui too…

    • Wow, a very interesting play on that phrase. Have you researched that as an area Copperhead?

    • Copperhead, as HDD noted, ACE IN THE HOLE is an interesting interpretation of the phrase “alone in there”
      And… The word ACE shows up in the poem several times (when in grid format) as does the word HOLE at least twice.

      Your interpretation would also be a great match with…”Life is a game of poker, Happiness is the pot…”

      • Speaking of “happiness is the pot” based on the following words I found in the poem (SMU, OLLA, POT, BEAR WALLOW) I recently put together a solution near Pot Creek & Bear wallow New Mexico, where SMU owns an ancient Pueblo ruin.

        Perhaps this is an area where Forrest found his favorite
        “secret ware“ or pot, Olla.

        • Agree.. Bear Wallow Canyon is just to the north of the Pot Creek site. Follow the trail until it turns left and then follow the creek east.
          I tried, but due to physical problems I had to get out of the dry creek bed and go back to the car.
          Good luck with that.

  1. Maybe this is the time (get in for free) f hid the treasure because I can’t imagine that he would hide it anywhere that it cost money to get in… jmo

    • Eagles-
      At the age of 79 or 80 Forrest could get in to any National Park or Monument for free. As can any US citizen 62 or older. with a senior pass. I believe seniors were charged a one-time fee of $5 when I got mine…then went up to $10 and now they are $80…
      But, even without a senior pass…paying $17 to get into a National Park in 2009 was hardly a financial obstacle for Forrest…

      • Geez Dal, with all respect,
        Forrest said he did this for the unemployed redneck with 12 kids..or something similar to that, so IMHO, he didnt want people to have to pay to find his treasure..

        • Eagle…
          You are too stubborn for your own good. Just because someone starts out with the first couple clues inside the park does not mean the chest is there too…
          In my own solution that I have been talking about for several years now..Only my first two clues are in the park…after that you’re out of the park and on Forest Service land…
          No reason to go into the park if you have a good map…
          However…you still have to get to the Rocky Mountains…so you’ll need gas money and either a fishing pole and a fishing license or your going to need enough money to buy groceries or stop in cafes while you travel.
          There is no way someone who lives a great distance from their search area can search absolutely free…
          I don’t believe Forrest ever said or even hinted that this chase was going to be free for everyone…

          • If I may be so bold as to interject a comment dal.
            Forrest created this chase for several reasons imho.

            1) a memorial to say ” I was here ”
            2) To give people something to dream about.
            3) To encourage people to use their imagination.
            4) And for the adventure of it all.

            I am sure there are a few more reasons for Forrest creating this grand chase that atm are escaping me.

            HDD

          • IMHO, there is one big undisclosed backstory that I hope ff reveals in the tiny autobiography. Plus, one never discussed underlying story that I believe (IMO) is tied to a personal view on karma. Plus, all the other great reasons previously disclosed. The final chapter will be the most interesting of all, IMHO.

      • Hi Eagles: any national park entrance fee is a pittance compared to the gas money, accommodations, and meals that it’ll cost you to get there and back, don’t you think?

        • Hi Zap,
          Then how did Forrest ever think he was going to get unemployed rednecks with 12 kids to go searching for his treasure?

        • Hi Eaglesabound: I’ll first answer your question with another: why do poor people play the lottery?

          But here’s a deeper and perhaps more interesting answer for you. Forrest would not want anyone who was unemployed (not by choice!) with a large number of dependents to be fiscally irresponsible by spending critical resources on multiple trips to the Rockies to look for a treasure that has eluded everyone for almost 9 years. So maybe there is a hidden message here: that the treasure hunt is open to everyone, rich or poor, perhaps because it is actually solvable PRIOR to ever leaving home.

          If it really would take a dozen search trips to have any hope of finding the treasure, then the Thrill of the Chase would no longer be an “indulgence” that is available to all pocketbooks.

          • Agreed! Can be solvable before botg and you need to at least plan for a couple dozen trips give or take a couple.

            2 trips and 2 botg won’t cut it!!!

      • Are you in CB, pd? I go there every year for the wildflowers and intended this year to drop down to SF for Fennboree but just couldn’t leave for the abundance of color this year.

        Are they still in bloom, Dal? Early July is usually peak, and I heard they lasted into early August.

        And would you please stop sending the masses to destroy nature’s beauty? First Pando, now CB. Are you on a quest or something? Do you have a grudge against nature? Everyone just keep going to Yellowstone. Surely, TC is in Yellowstone.

        • Hello aardvarkbark. I am not in Crested Butte. The link Dal provided is very recent. It’s from a local TV station I watch and get my news from. I don’t know how many people have seen it during the daily news, but I would assume a lot and it is easy to go online now and find out what is happening across the nation, as well as, the world. My guess is that the wildflowers are still in full bloom because of the late season we had. Some time this week we’re to have temperature highs in the low-to-mid 70’s. I hope you’ll be able to go to Crested Butte next year.

  2. Assuming the Firehole River and the Madison River is where WWWH, then you take the canyon down, problem that one sees is there really is no canyon, it is more like a draw, (not wide as a valley but narrow between two spurs, (lateral ridge or tongue of land descending from a hill, mountain or main crest of a ridge. It can also be defined as another hill or mountain range which projects in a lateral direction from a main hill or mountain range.

    The definition of a canyon is: a deep narrow valley with steep sides and often with a stream or river flowing through it. Looking through GE there are only 3 passable canyons that go down, the first goes toward Bozeman, Livingston and towards Cody. The last set of geysers is at the Norris Geyser Basin, so wouldn’t the canyon down be towards Livingston.

    Still scratching my head as to what way to go.

    • Rubber-
      Holy Cow Rubber!! Don’t you read EVERYTHING on the blog???
      You just have to use a good map to see that it’s actually called Madison Canyon…
      How about the US Geological Survey…They make pretty good maps…
      And I think they seem qualified to decide if something is a canyon or a valley or a trough…
      I showed a piece of their TOPO map of the area in a recent story about Mayflies, here:
      https://dalneitzel.com/2019/08/13/break/
      Note that the area just below the Junction is labeled Madison Canyon…

      • Dal,

        Aware of the name Madison Canyon, comprehensive understanding of geography is what is needed? It looks much like a draw to me, or am I going overboard?

        Yes most often, the blog is followed, just would like to go at it in a more literal way, because geography plays a part in the poem. Everything else that was tried has failed for me.

        The input is very much appreciated.

    • Funny you should mention playing cards Kalballou.

      Thinking back to a quote ” Life deals you four cards and a joker”
      An interesting play on that is: We have four states and Forrest Fenn’s chase.
      Which begs the question: Could the chase be as simple as following the path of
      Forrest’s life through the four states?

      HDD

  3. I still want to know “not far but too far to walk” …
    FROM WHERE??
    I am told that it is from WWWH. The narrative suggests that it is from where f lived or lives. And there is something about throwing a bicycle in water high.
    In a Madison solve it would be in a fishing hole up in YNP. Anyplace else, I don’t know. I can’t figure it out.

    • I take it as the distance that is too far to walk is between where you begin at WWWH and where you put in below the home of Brown.

    • Michael H, he also said “I might get hit by a train” in that answer, so how about a water tower that fills the boiler of the RR Locomotive? Now that is a great place to hide a bike, and they all have ladders on em plus they go so slow, you would not have to walk, just jump aboard, or put in. read Winter Thoughts by Tom Terrific.

      TT

    • Michael-
      I never thought about “from where?”…
      But I often think about “for whom?”
      TFTW for Forrest? For an ant? For everyone?
      Is there somewhere in the poem that tells us for whom?

    • the throwing a bicycle in water high comment I believe came from a reply by ff to a con man. (all be it a very bad con man).. basically ff is conning a con man, similar to when ff said something like did the patina of the bronze change on the chest from the hot water to another con man.

      in otherwords any comment made in that reply, including the throwing a bicycle is meant for a con man… imo… not for anyone to take seriously.

    • IMO, Too Far To Walk is talking about distance in TIME FROM Canyon Down. Not necessary to travel in any way from Canyon Down. Just have to know what it is and understand the way the geography was formed there over time. Have to understand the GEOGRAPHY.

    • from the “middle” maybe?
      Middle river, Middle Creek, Midway or mid-canyon, etc.

      (Just thinking only of poem words only here and particularly the word “warm”)

  4. If you get a chance read “My War for Me”. Or if you’ve read it before read it again. I happened to read it today and it was very inspiring, and goes to the heart of who Forrest Fenn is.

    Through the 3 years I have been involved in the Chase my respect for Forrest has only grown over time. It helps to re-read some of these things, and go back also and read some of the older scrapbooks. There’s some pretty funny stuff there that Forrest has written. I had forgotten how hilarious the SB is where Forrest goes grocery shopping and runs into Ms. Maven. LOL. Good stuff!!

  5. Here is a rejected solve (my fishing hole solve) just to illustrate the possibility of a direction change after put in and a few other things. It’s not presented as a good fit, but rather an interpretive exercise. also, I have read and criticized others ideas a lot, so I thought I’d throw some random ideas out there.

    WWH – Madison Jct (or any Geyser basin up the Gibbon, since water halts in a basin)
    NFBTFTW — 9 mile hole (9 miles is TFTW, but the hole is not literally too far to walk)
    hoB – Mt Haynes (big Brown Home of whatever) (need some reason to put in after 7 mile bridge. This is weak)
    NPFTM – After 7 mile Bridge, head back up the river on the south side (dangerous wading, steep bank, etc)
    EIEDN – you are getting closer. There is a draw on the right side (dang, wrong side) maybe its on the left side of that draw.
    NPUYC — Dry/small creek/draw across from 9 mile hole, interesting mound there.
    HLAWH — oops — got nothing here — reset … move on to next solve

    Can’t tell you how many iterations I can try in an evening to try to get a fit. This is just one example of a rejected solve. I could document hundreds.

    A modification might be to put in below Mt Jackson (Browne) (9 mile hole is TFTW, so don’t go all the way there), cross the Madison and go up to that small lake across from the Mt Haynes Overlook as HLAWH. I like that one a little better, but hoB is pretty weak.

    Again, this is just illustrative of a few things:

    1. NFBTFTW can actually be close, and maybe you don’t actually go there
    2. After Put in you can go back up the canyon
    3. EIEDN could be the draw on the left or maybe the left side of a draw or mabe you are just getting closer, or maybe you don’t actually go to the end.
    4. hoB is tough (remember, Forrest didn’t object to the “who is Brown question” referring to a “who”. He didn’t answer “I never said Brown was a who/person”)
    5.. all you need is a good map …. How about http://imageshack.com/i/pljAXblfj
    6. This thing is driving me crazy.

    Just trying to stimulate.

    mBG

  6. Hi MBG
    You have to figure stanza one before you can move on to wwwsh.
    Start at the beginning,no short cuts.
    Clint

    • Clint,

      Didn’t ff say the first clue was wwwh? IMO there is nothing helpful that precludes the first clue not even a hint as to what wwwh means or is.

      Stanza one as you suggest you have to figure out, IMO is a shallow rabbit hole that yields very little that will aid a searcher.

      Best regards

      It’s fun converting from a lurker to involvement here, should have tried this long ago. I just hope that there is no offense taken for future posts.

      To all, best regards

      • Rubber to Boots,
        No offense taken but I don’t agree with your opinion about the first stanza.

        Take this response by f into account:

        Mysterious Writings
        Question posted 7/1/2014:

        Dear Forrest,

        You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is:

        a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and
        b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”

        Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail? ~ Steve

        No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?

        ————————————
        If the first clue is the most important one then I’d say something in the poem has to objectively steer you to the correct one if you can figure it out. Otherwise, it’s just a non compelling guess.

      • IMHO, stanza #1 is perhaps the most misunderstood stanza—you cannot solve the poem without listening good to FF’s words in the first stanza.

        • I agree Bowmarc – For me it is a prelude. It tells me what I need to do during “The last Act” – Where to “Go Into” – JDA

          • It does have elements of a prelude for me as well, JDA.

            On a deeper level, though, I see it as the key to FF’s map.

  7. Hi RB
    Will I can see you going to do it the hard way like a lot of others
    Searchers have been doing for ten years. Your going to look at every canyon down
    and hope you can find a WWWSH and then home of Brown.Just because
    Forrests said the first clue is WWWSH.,but how do you find that first clue.
    I think I would suggest the beginning.Anybody else have any input on this.
    Clint

    • Clint;

      If figuring out WWWsH was easy, Indulgence would have been found years ago. I found my first WWWsH almost immediately, and it took me to my General Search Area, and I have never left. – My “Big Picture Solve.”

      Now for my “Small Area Visual or Observational Solve.” Will this one lead me to the 10″ X 10″ X 5″ treasure – I can only hope so – JDA

      • JDA: figuring out WWWH is no guarantee of figuring out anything else, whether it’s easy or hard. How many years has it been since the first searchers solved it — 6 or 7 now? Hasn’t helped them.

        I can at least boost your target dimensions by 20%: the chest is 10x10x6 inches, not 5 inches.

    • Clint,

      You seem in thought that a lot of other’s doings is wrong, can you show that to be true? Everyone does have their own ideas. You have to learn, think and analyze, what the clues might be referring to, no jumping from canyon to canyon. It sounds as though you would want wwwh handed on a platter. In the past some said the poem is too vague, are they doing the work?

      Best regards, peace

      • I don’t see Clint saying this. Where does this come from. Same thought as what Seeker was trying to push the other day:
        “It sounds as though you would want wwwh handed on a platter.”

        I don’t get it.

        • FD,

          If you look at the poem most of it is vague but factual in every way. The point that the very first clue is vague is because searchers need to do the work to find where, warm waters halt. Clint said, “Forrests said the first clue is WWWSH.,but how do you find that first clue.
          I think I would suggest the beginning.”clint He asks how do you find that first clue?

          For me, it sounds as if he’s trying to find the answer in the first stanza, when IMO the first stanza does not give the answer to wwwh. IMO there is no indication of wwwh in TTOTC or in the poem, SB or ATFs and it sounds like Clint isn’t doing the work to figure out the geographical location where warm waters do halt, this is way I feel he would want the answer handed to him. I may be wrong.

          There are subtle hints in ff book that will help with the 2 through the 8th clue. IMO ff wouldn’t make the clues easy more so for the first clue, if he hints wwwh elsewhere other than the poem, what would be the fun of it all? I think ff said that we searchers need to think, analyze, study and use our imagination (what if), and the need of the use of geography. (the gist of his past comments).

          For myself thinking that Clint would want clues to be easier instead of doing the work. Sorry Clint if I am wrong 🙂

          Best regards, peace
          Feel that I am failing miserably with blogging.

          Could it be that Yellowstone Lake be wwwh where the Yellowstone river enters the warm lake?

  8. “Too far to walk” isn’t much help, as a person could walk thousands of miles.

    It may be that FF expected folks to interpret “too far to walk” as a distance that exceeds how
    far an average person would walk in one day, if another means of transportation (such as a car) is readily available. This could be as little as a mile or less, in some cases.

    Regardless of all this, TFTW shouldn’t be emphasized as being critically important to a correct solve of the poem.

    As always, this entire message is part of my opinion.

    • Tall Andrew;

      Forrest spent 15 years writing the poem – to get it the way that he wanted it. He says it is dangerous to ignore anything in the poem (paraphrased) so, how can you say: “TFTW shouldn’t be emphasized as being critically important to a correct solve of the poem.” – Sorry, I believe that you are 100% wrong – JMO – JDA

      • I did it by “typing” on my computer’s keyboard.
        It’s easy to say what one believes if one is bold enough.

        TFTW is, at best, a small hint requiring imagination to understand.
        It doesn’t guide. It confirms.

        All IMO

      • Hi JDA
        Did you use the first stanza in the poem to help
        you find your wwwsh and is it a hot spring.
        Thanks Clint

        • Clint;

          I did NOT use the first stanza in the poem to help me find my WWWsH, I have never revealed what my WWWsH is – JDA

    • Poetically, NFBTFTW could mean that the distance/terrain being described is viewable, but impossible to traverse for some reason(s), so you do not/will not. Instead, you are given the command to PIBTHOB.

  9. Quote of the day:
    “Persistence is very important. You should not give up unless you are forced to give up.”

    – Elon Musk

    • Would you like to share that info? I read TFTW more than 2 years ago, and am
      too lazy to search through the book again for the information. But the specific
      distance (or range of distance) mentioned doesn’t matter to me, as one would
      have to think “way outside the box” to even understand what FF meant by the
      book’s phrase “too far to walk”. As always, IMO.

      • Tall Andrew,

        “Some say they are trying to think outside the box, as if the solution lies somewhere out there” F

        “Until now I have resisted telling them to get back in the box where their thoughts are comfortable and flow more easily” F

        • flutterby- this box of which Forrest speaks, is the chest. outside the box lies the blaze, feet.
          where heels high!
          i would draw you pictures but better yet, Dodo bird has the photo.
          on the box is…IN.
          its not that hard.
          i think

          • Bob,
            You failed to say this it is just your opinion that the box FF speaks of is the chest. I think you are wrong! IMO, that isnt what he is saying. I cant share what I believe he is talking about. It would give too much away.

      • Clint: there is no *unintended* hint/clue in the preface of TFTW. That is not my opinion — it is straight from Forrest.

        The only way you can believe Forrest is providing a clue that “too far to walk” is ~10 miles is if that clue was DELIBERATE. And if you believe that, then you must also accept that anyone trying to solve the poem from 2010 to late 2013 had no chance whatsoever, because that 10-mile distance wasn’t on Forrest’s website, it isn’t in the poem, and it certainly isn’t in TTOTC.

        • Hi Zap, yes I agree, preface “clue” can not be interpreted as a clue at all, since ff says directly that the preface clue was not the unintended clue, and in a very long round about way, he is saying it is not a clue at all. imo. because he said what the unintended clue was, and that there were no other clues. making the preface clue a none clue.

          Also didn’t Dal put up a post here on the blog about how he and ff were getting the cover done for TFTW (Dal taking the picture), and that Dal asked ff about the preface, (which apparently was worded with a different milage at the time ?), and that ff changed it after discussion with Dal, that the milage didn’t make sense for the distance that was described … walking down the river from some area to about another area… or something to that effect. Dal could clarify that because I am only basing that on memory.

          Zap, you might have that in your notes also?

  10. Hi All
    I have been in the chase for 3 years now and I have yet to my knowledge
    have never heard anyone say anything about the hints that I know that
    will lead you to the clues that will solve the riddles.good night
    Clint

    • I am wondering if the hints that i know are the same as the ones that you know. You go first. 🙂

      • Hi Smokybaer
        I will give you one, Redneck from Texas ,ok look at
        SW Texas ok look at SW Montana with a little
        Imagination you can see some resemblance ,this might
        give you the right state.i will let you figure the rest
        out.Clint

    • Hi Clint,
      do you think that anybody will reveal hints that discovered by multiple reading TTOTC or other books? The chase is still persist and the hints could be very valuable for search. Usually searchers publish their solutions when they 100% sure that there is no TC in this location. But even if they publish a solution that they never tested via BOTG the majority of searchers will never go there. Because each searcher think: “my solution is much better, even if I can’t find TC there I’ll modify it and next time will be successful”.

      • andy- heres a hint revealed.
        find the two hidden capital F’s in TTOTC.
        then realize that the blaze is….feet.
        if you are wise.

        i think.

  11. in September 2012. Forrest said:

    “Several months ago some folks correctly mentioned the first two clues to me in an email and then they went right past the other seven, not knowing that they had been so close. ALAS, and dame fortune, so often a FICKLE and seductive wench, never spun her wheel to lure them back.”

    This quote of ff’s May be coincidentally of interest because of 2 words… Alas and Fickle.

    -The Continental Divide Trail has been offered & discussed by searchers as a logical WWWHalt.
    -Forrest “went looking for Lewis & Clark.
    -He expressed interested in where their great corps of discovery passed through Montana.

    Lewis & Clark pass (6424 elev) on the Continental Divide trail in on “Alice/Alas” Creek road past “Fickle” Ranch from highway 200. L&C pass in an ancient Indian or First People’s travois trail. This is the pass that Captain Lewis and his dog Seaman travelled eastward – alone on the return leg.
    I hiked this portion of the CDTrail as a kid with my family when it was remote country in the 60’s.

    Curious if anyone has been to Lewis & Clark Pass recently.

  12. What if Stanza One is referring to Labels/Brands?
    Kinda like the advertisement for Coca Cola that says “it’s the real thing.”
    Oh if I could only sing….

    • Coke has connections in Atlanta. Do you suppose Forrest brought any back
      when he drove bullet back. Thinking of a flat can or is tire? Something about dump tires.

  13. Oh good and gracious God. Thank you. I did not ask you to hand this to me on a platter. I asked that you would help me to use the intelligence I have been given by you to understand. I am so grateful to you. I want to state this in front of all. To you be the glory.

  14. Andrew, I will be honest with you. I have never felt better in my whole life. Seriously.

    • Closest relatives to the extinct Dodo bird are the pigeons and doves, so take some breadcrumbs and go feed the birds.

      Glad you are feeling so good – count your blessings and appreciate the fact that you have wings. Soar high my friend.

      WWW

  15. That is what I will look like when I find it, IMO. Lol

    Im not sure why Yellowstone is confused about this deer’s behavior. It clearly has something it is trying to get off its head. We see this in Yosemite deer that get caught on something in someone’s yard. Its the only way they can shake something off their heads.

    Although; Forrest did mention (p 60 TTOTC) that Lightning kept doing a “funny dance step”. So who knows, . . Maybe this deet is on to something. Lol

  16. Could it be that the searchers in the lower part of MT and upper WY are looking in the wrong areas? There have probably been a few thousand searchers over the course of 9 years, that have scrubbed the area in those two states. Isn’t this a good indicator that searchers have failed as a reason that it’s time to re-think the tc is elsewhere?

    I have personally failed searching around YNP, but start in the park and out of the park over the past years. This does make me think the possibility the tc is elsewhere. What do some of you think?

    • I do not believe the TC is in YNP. I believe it is between 50-150 miles from YNP in an area nobody else is currently searching. It is my belief that no current searcher is correctly identifying WWWH and HOB. I think that most people are looking at the surface of the poem. The answers are deeper IMO.

      • I have had a number of solves involving Yellowstone and West Yellowstone, but I no longer think the hiding spot is there either. Partly because of a little gem I found in a video transcript on tarryscant.com:

        FENN: Because I spent 19 of my first 20 summers – three months – in Yellowstone, or West Yellowstone, but the last time I was up there was 1950.

        The context is that Isaac Cole mentioned the Campfire Lodge on the Madison River, and Forrest is commenting about not being familiar with it because it was after his time.

        If we take that statement about 1950 at face value, and if we assume that he followed the clues when he hid the chest many years later, it seems logical that his path didn’t pass into Yellowstone or West Yellowstone. Of course, the *rest* of Montana or Wyoming could still be considered as possibilities.

        I also tend to discount solves close by that area just because it would seem odd to come so close to your childhood stomping grounds after all those years and resist the temptation to make a quick stop, perhaps on the way home, to revisit some old memories.

        (Search on TS for 1950. Scroll down to Video Search Results. The line I cite above is in: ID# 9285 5/8/2017 “On the Road with Charlie – Part One”)

        • Agreed. FF has REVERANCE for the hiding spot and reverence does not come in your early years before about 30, thus he fixated on the hiding spot in his later years in Santa Fe, thus the spot is not in his Yellowstone early years. Originally FF said in the “mountains north of Santa Fe” then later was changed to “in the Rocky Mountains”. I weight earlier statements more than more recent statements.

        • Unfortunately, bad assumption, Ray. Forrest has been back to West Yellowstone many times since 1950.

        • Ray-
          This has been brought up many times on this blog and elsewhere in the searcher universe…

          That’s not the gem you think…
          First of all we know Forrest spent a great deal of time in the Yellowstone area well after he was 20. He built a motel there with his brother and friend in the 60s. He fished and visited his mom and dad there in the summers until his dad stopped going there in the 80s. I have seen photos of he and Peggy in the park that were taken after 2000. He went to Cody annually for board meetings and drove over to the Yellowstone area to fish…and there are many more documented occurrences of Forrest being in the Yellowstone area after 1950…

          So why did he say that?…if you listen to the video closely it is clear…he is not talking about not being in the Yellowstone area…He is talking about spending an entire summer up there… which he has not done since 1950. But he’s been up there for shorter periods a lot since 1950.

    • I just think the poem is being misinterpreted. You are talking about a large area and a small box.

    • Rubber-
      Folks could walk in my footsteps and not see what I see nor I see what they have seen. There is no reason to not look in an area others have looked in. Everyone has different ideas and is looking for different triggers.
      By the way…if what you say were true than folks should also stop looking in other areas where it’s likely that tens of thousands have already been:
      Jemez Springs, NM
      Brown’s Park, CO
      Red River, NM
      Cimarron, NM
      Glacier Nat’l Park, MT
      Valles Caldera Nat’l Preserve, NM
      Thermopolis, WY
      Cody, WY
      Abiquiu, NM
      Meeker, CO
      Denver Art Museum, CO
      Dinosaur Nat’l Monument, CO
      and many more places that have been “scoured”

      My sense is that everyone should look where the clues lead them. Regardless of how many have searched an area before them.
      We are looking for a 10x10x5 box in millions of square acres…We are looking for a blaze and no-one knows what that blaze is…
      Don’t let the naysayers talk your ideas down…There are plenty of negative folks in the search who border on being trolls…
      Do your own homework. Follow your own instincts…
      you may be the one to figure it out…

      • Rubber … lower MT & upper WY scrubbed? … How is it we can’t find our car keys or eye glasses in a 2,000 sq ft space we know every inch of?

      • I totally agree. No two searchers are going to see the same place in the same way.

        As for me, I have not found the solve that leads to the chest, but I have eliminated a thousand that do not. I call it the Edisonian Method. 😉

        Come to think of it, perhaps that’s my problem. If Imagination is a key, perhaps a more Teslan approach is in order.

        • Hi Ray,

          you have said: “I have not found the solve that leads to the chest, but I have eliminated a thousand that do not.”
          How you know that you don’t eliminated correct leads to the chest?
          As for me when I finish my BOTG I always have a sense that my search was incomplete i.e. I had passed TC within 100 feet or even less. I’m sure that many searchers have the same feeling (you can ask JDA and other avid searchers).
          When we are in the wood and out of human trails we start to search for the blaze. And of course we can found hundreds of them: big boulder, fallen rotting tree, mark on a tree, shadow of sharp crag etc. Maybe it’s a big mistake i.e. to start search for the blaze before you have solved all clues before the blaze.
          I usually never start my BOTG if I don’t have solution for first 3 clues: WWWH, CD and the hoB. After I put in below of the hoB I start to search for direction/way where normal hikers/tourists will never go (From there it’s no place for the meek). Then you walk around 1 mile and look around with your imagination turned on.

          • Hi Andy;

            On paper, a solve can seem perfect. Once one has placed BotG, one sees the actual setting, and not as it is depicted on Google Earth, or within ones mind. What looked like the Perfect Blaze on GE, turns out to be nothing more than a scree field that resembles nothing – nothing but a scree field.

            One can even have the “Perfect” solve, but Indulgence is just not there. Was it a BAD solve? Well, yes and no. If one were able to find all of the elements, – That is goodness. If one then does not find Indulgence, is it wrong? Well, maybe not.

            Why was I “Brought” to this area by the poem? WHY is it not there? Is it my interpretation of reality that was wrong, or was I brought to this place, to look at it again for the first time?

            I KNOW I am in the right general area. I have found too many “Matches” with elements of the poem for it to be coincidences – TOO MANY!

            Will I ever find just the right mixture of reality, and imagination on my part? I think I AM getting closer.
            I will find it, or I will get too old to pursue the dream.
            Not sure, at this point which will come first. Hope I find it, but if I do not, I have already found the true treasure – Time spent with family members in one of the most beautiful (At least to me, my family and Forrest) places on earth. Lots of smiles 🙂 🙂 🙂 JDA

          • Hi MajinKing,

            Thanks for your advises! I agree practically with all your statements besides this one:
            “If you can’t find the blaze before you leave your home, forget the idea of getting closer to the TC than 200 feet.”
            Well, I agree if you modify it to:
            “If you can’t find the IDEA of blaze before you leave your home, forget the idea of getting closer to the TC than 200 feet.”
            Forrest said very interesting thing about final spot: “If you are in the right spot something you probably haven’t thought about should be obvious to you.”
            IMO but he said it about the blaze: when you get visual contact with an object that is real blaze you will immediately understand what is in front of you. In simple words the blaze will become obvious but obvious only for TC searchers that know everything about Forrest and the chase. Hikers and tourists will pass the blaze and not pay any attention to it.
            I’ll also slightly modify your last conclusion:
            “So once you have solved WWWH, hoB, and THE IDEA of blaze, get your boots on and go to the WWWH.”

          • Hi JDA,

            I think that all real searchers (including me) will say the same about his/her solution: “I KNOW I am in the right general area. I have found too many “Matches” with elements of the poem for it to be coincidences – TOO MANY!”
            IMO but the season might be simple: the poem has multiplex solutions for each clue so even if you have solved clues #1 and 2 correctly the incorrectly solved clue #3 will lead you to wrong direction. When you found nothing in final spot you will automatically conclude that clues #1 and 2 were solved incorrectly and never return to this start point.
            My current solution for first clues up to the hoB also looks perfect for me. So, I’ll also visit this place at least 1-2 times more. Thanks for your advice about metal detector – I will have it with me in my next visit. Last time you said that you have it but never use it. Well I’ll test it on big bronze box before search and will use it only if I found the blaze.
            Forrest said: “A metal detector will help you if you’re in exactly the right spot.”
            IMO but the right spot is the blaze. TC is below but not visible so metal detector (or even simple pinpointer) will immediately find it.
            It looks like that 2020 will be hot year for all searchers – 10 years anniversary of chase start and 90 years anniversary for Forrest. He already tired to give us hints and clues because he knows that he gave already more than enough to found TC during several days (IMO).

          • JDA: “turns out to be nothing more than a scree field that resembles nothing”

            How dare you call a scree field nothing?
            That’s my “heavy loads”.

      • I’ve often wondered if the employees of the nature and science museum felt the intense concentration from their visitors the days following the info release. And how long before they realized, why their admissions had risen. I was there within the week. g

      • Dal & Others,

        Wow, I truly thank you for your input, it was a general question that came back with strong defenses and much appreciated. Curiosity about how searchers feel after looking for some years was the intent and shows the tenacity is very strong even to this day.

        Bravo, best wishes

    • Hi Rubber,

      I know at least two other searchers who have been scouring the same basin as I have been for two summers now. The outdoors is huge and we all probably walked by it a few times, if it is indeed in that basin; the same could be said for many other creeks and basins.

      What we lack so far is precision, I think.

      • Hello Jake. The other day you posted a link showing a cairn. What have you decided to do?

  17. There are a few places in YNP that have not been searched , not because searchers are not in the area but because they GET THE FIRST COUPLE CLUE`S RIGHT then go right past the other 7 . IMO

  18. Any where you go some one has already been there, and what’s more important is that some of them were close. I will not rule out any area for that fact. Hell I may have been one of them.

  19. Guys……maybe my map is broken, I’ve taken it back to where it was purchased, I explained my map wasn’t working, the clerk looked at it, took a look from top to bottom. He folded it up, handed it to me and said, it’s working just fine. Back at home I unfolded it, looked at the poem, looked at the map, it wasn’t working, so I decided all that it needs is a good thump on the map, thinking this would make it work. How come my map isn’t working? When I give things that don’t work a good thump they always work. But noooooo……

    Imagination, peace

  20. Everyone says Forrest is 89 and therefore kind of slow and feeble. I’ve shared something like this before—-but this is how it REALLY is:

    A very old man wearing a cowboy hat inches toward his front door and fumbles for his keys. He shakes a bit as he puts the key into the door. A voice from inside asks loudly “Forrest.. is that you?” The man says “What was that? I can’t hear you”.

    The door opens with a shaky push and the man shuffles in. He slowly closes the door.

    The moment the door closes Forrest takes his cowboy hat and throws it perfectly onto a wall hanger 25 feet away. He jumps and clicks his heels and reaches for a remote control.

    He pushes a button and the wall opens revealing an 80” wide screen television. Within seconds President Donald Trump appears on the screen. “Forrest, I really like your ideas about peace in the Middle East. Good work!”

    “Thank you sir” Forrest says loudly and robustly. “I always try to do my best. I will call again around 0900 with more details about some other ideas I have”.

    “Anyone found that treasure yet Forrest? Can you give me a hint or two?” asks the President.

    “Nope. And Nope” replies Forrest.

    “Goodnight Forrest”. “Good night Mr. President”.

    Forrest goes into a special weight room he has had built and begins his nightly three hour workout.

    “Forrest! Is that you??” asks Peggy loudly.

    “I’m inside now honey. I can hear you just fine.”.

  21. Here’s a treasure someone hid about 950 years ago…just found…so maybe Forrest wasn’t kidding when he said it might be a hundred or even a thousand years before Indulgence is found…
    Unfortunately, the person that hid this treasure didn’t leave a bio or DNA so no one knows who hid it…
    Maybe it was my relatives…probably not…they would have been the ones robbing the rich guys 🙂

    https://news.artnet.com/art-world/british-museum-treasure-coins-1636096#.XWg5mgrurxA.email

    • How on earth did they clean them all up so well for the photo? I have a lot of old silver stuff that I’d like to have looking like that.

      I hope Tony Robinson does a show about those coins.. Thanks for that interesting news.

    • WOW!
      No back story, poem, books, ATF’s etc…
      No hair.
      950 years….
      I think Fenn’s treasure will be found sooner, maybe a lot sooner.

    • Good for Adam and Lisa, what a high that must have been! Ugh, then comes the part where it gets snatched away by some “authority” who then decides what the disposition of found treasure/trove will be. As if THEY had anything to do with either the hiding or the finding! Still, a smile-making tale, thank you for sharing, Dal.

      • I hope somehow that Forrest found a place to hide the TC where authorities cant take posession of it once its found. That would sure ruin the fun.

        • The authorities can kiss my little flat stone — the one with blue
          paint on it . . . or not. (They’re not getting “posession” of it either.)

          If I find the treasure chest, should I buy a few ducklings?

          As always, IMO.

          • Tall Andy –

            I’m as blue as blue can be
            with a soft sweet glaze poured over me.
            So, I hear that you must go
            but that ain’t gonna be the end of this show.
            It won’t matter where you are –
            I will find you near or far.

            PS – For Pete’s sake – if you find the treasure chest, a few ducklings? I’m thinking more like a flock!

          • “Just take the chest and go in peace”
            A quiet exit from the area and libral application Of mum is golden. nuff said?

            HDD

      • In the UK there are buried treasures all over the place and the rule is well known that whatever historic treasures are found on the isles, the value/reward is determined by the Treasure Valuation Committee in hopes that a museum will purchase and display the treasure for everybody to share. If no museum wants the loot, then the finder can keep the lot.

        In this case, the loot will be picked up by a major museum of course. I look forward to visiting the hoard soon in London.

    • “Forrest wasn’t kidding when he said it might be a hundred or even a thousand years before Indulgence is found…”

      But this suggests no poem, book, more books, ATFs, SBs, Q&As, blogs, ‘borees, u-toob vids were required.

      Just a metal detector…

      • If someone solves the poem thoroughly and correctly, a metal detector
        wouldn’t be a suitable/appropriate aid (in my opinion).

      • It wont be found for a thousand years unless you have the lungs of a Chilean and the stamina of a sherpa.

  22. I would like to thank the ghost of Billy Barty for his continuing encouragement.
    “Sparrow–I keep tellin’ ya its buried in Wyoming. But ya won’t listen to me” “What’s wrong with you?”
    “Listen Billy I just like Montana for the hidey space. Give me a break”. “OK, make it a short one”. “Funny Billy”.

  23. So, I just read Forrest’s blog posts on oldsantafetradingco.com. Something stood out to me in the post about General McArthur; “The General paced”. Maybe it’s unrelated to the poem maybe it is. I’m not sure. Maybe he made two trips from his car to count paces to his hidey spot. Thoughts? I’m sure this has likely been discussed, if you can remember any references to other conversations, I’d be grateful. Good luck all.

    • Enough pacing on a carpet could wear a groove.

      The mechanism of this process is similar to that of an animal trail’s formation.

      As always, IMO.

  24. Hidden for 3285 days (give or take) and counting…
    I’m planning my 21st BOTG soon. I have been trapped by family obligations and expect that this will be my last trip for awhile (At least until I can refill my cookie jar.) 😉

  25. there is no doubt in my mind that randawg will indeed find Forrest Fenns treasure.
    another success story!
    now where is that darn chest?

  26. Thoughts on the song “My Blue Heaven”

    Forrest mentioned he is into bird watching and the Whippoorwill is especially interesting to him because of one of the songs he likes to hum, “My Blue Heaven.”

    The Urban Dictionary meaning for the phrase “Blue Heaven” is:
    A place or state of mind that brings forth a visceral feeling of being near one’s personal Heaven, particularly in the outdoors.

    Now let’s look at some of the lyrics in the song and compare them to the poem.

    Whippoorwills call, evenin’ is nigh
    Turn to the right, there’s a little white light
    Will lead you to my Blue Heaven

    Could: evenin’ is nigh = The end is drawing ever nigh
    Could: Turn to the right, there’s a little white light = If you’ve been wise and found the blaze.
    Could: Will lead you to my Blue Heaven = Just take the chest and go in peace.

    Forrest did say he crafted the poem like an architect so he spent much time on it, years. Maybe he used lines from one of his favorite songs as inspiration for the poem.

    Just some thoughts before my wife and I head out in September for a BOTG.

    -Kurt

  27. There is a proxy item in Texas. This proxy item when turned into Kpro or Cowlazars will get you 2019 searcher coin #035. These 5 song names will lead you to the location in Texas. Good Luck!

    “Underneath It All” No Doubt
    “Turning Tables” Adele
    “Old Town Road” Lil Nas X
    “Boney Maroney” Sha Na Na
    “Columbia” Oasis

    On Monday nights show we will show the location of 2 proxy items up by the Yellowstone area.

    ~ Cowlazars

    If you want to show support for these free treasure hunts consider buying a Chase-opoly game.
    https://dalneitzel.com/2019/08/15/chaseopoly/

    • Heading out in the AM to try to retrieve it . I have to keep sharp until the next BOTG 🙂

    • The proxy item was found this morning and the winner will get 2019 searcher coin #035!

      Mondays nights LIVE show will reveal 2 proxies up in the yellowstone area.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUez2XpSSy8

      The first to retrieve will get 2019 searcher coin #034 and #033.

      ~ Cowlazars

      solution:
      Once determining the song and musician/band names, an acrostic gets you the state of TEXAS from the last letter of each musician/band name.
      OLD TOWN will take you to Nacogdoches, Texas. This is considered the oldest town in Texas, with native American settlements going back 10,000 years.
      MARONEY Park is the place in Nacogdoches.
      The proxy item is located UNDERNEATH a picnic TABLE in the park.
      Columbia is a confirmer for Nacogdoches. The majority of the debris from the Space Shuttle disaster fell near Nacogdoches.

      • Dang it! We were in the Texas State Cemetery. The side entrance by the columbarium, first grave to the right is the *only * union soldier, Tony Baronies. The old highway dead ends in the cemetery at a roundabout. I thought we had it for sure… it was a very neat trip anyway and we paid respects to Stephen F Austin, Chris Kyle and so many more great Texans .

  28. Dal,
    Is it possible to repost this side Chase separately from Odds and Ends on the blog?

    • RH-
      The coin search is Cowlazer’s and KPro’s.
      I would be happy to provide a page for their searches…
      But I don’t want to do it without consulting them…
      I don’t want to get in the way or look like I m trying to steal their viewers or hijack their fun…

      They have a very popular vlog that they run weekly. I’m sure you can find out more about the coin searches and Chaseopoly and other things they are doing there…
      The most recent one is located here:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c85VBkMjoGQ

      and if you subscribe I imagine you’ll get notified of the next vlog…

  29. My Favorite Story Entries Page One
    https://dalneitzel.com/my-favorite-story-entries-page-one/

    I just read the page listed above and would like to thank all the people that shared on this page.
    You folks have built quite the community here on Dals site. I commend you one and all and wish you all the best. You have opened my eyes to see how much it matters that people are remembered. Thou we may never meet know that you have had an impact on my view on life and the people around me.
    Thank you.

    • me-
      That was a fun winter contest with some beautiful entries…
      The idea was to write about your favorite story from TFTW in 200 words or less..
      Winner got a wall-poster sized TFTW map

      • Really enjoying your site Dal you’re doing a great job. I’m working my way thru it and it looks like it will take awhile. Forrest Fenn is making history and he is taking all of you with him.
        Thank you for a great site.

        • Forrest is truly an amazing person. The poem should never be “messed with”. It is written just the way it is. I have learned this recently. No stanzas should be moved, or any word forgotten or changed in any way.
          It is a work of genius.

  30. Has anyone else noticed the bottom of page 44 in TTOTC, the words “fire wood” . I think we can all agree that f is man who knows words and researches words. He is an author of many books. The word is split in two as “fire” and “wood”. The proper word is “firewood” and I’m sure f knows how to correctly spell it. I believe he intentionally split the word as “fire” and “wood”. I think this is a hint and the correct solve will have to do with a fire and some other object. As always, IMO.

    • Tarheel Searcher – There are remnants of the boundary of the 1988 YNP fire, marked by the bluff above my Baker’s Hole hidey spot: ‘fire wood’?

      What is on page 44 of TTOTC?

    • Hi Tarheel Searcher: Forrest splits compound nouns a lot in his books and his ATF postings (e.g. tooth brush, dish washer, clothes line, cannon ball, loud speaker, shock wave, weather vanes). I could probably find you 100 examples. Is it a hint? Or just one of Forrest’s idiosyncrasies?

  31. Something to ask the fennatics! Using the imagination to force a little aberration, is this a realistic clue? (It works for me)

    Combining the 2 lines:
    but tarry scant with marvel gaze just take the chest and go in peace

    Could produce:
    go take the chest at sanctuary with grave and just let my bonez rest in peace

    With a few letters necessarily duplicated. What say you???

        • Thanks for the replys.

          Don’t mess with the poem…keep it simple…imagination, etc. This proposed interpretation uses mostly the very words of ff, just in a slightly different order and with the same results, while being consistent with all the other ATF comments that I have ever heard.. Just fills in some missing information, IMHO.

          Anybody else???

          • Ethical Dilemma;

            Let me see if I got it correct.

            You used only 9 of the 14 words that are in the original lines. Leaving “But tarry scant marvel gaze” as unused words.

            Using these five unused words, coupled with the original nine words, you used the 23 letters to create a new sentence – AFTER adding 7 letters _ (YET ONE) – you come up with your new sentence, and yet you do not consider this “Messing with the poem” ???? Sure seems like you are messing with the poem to me. Just sayin’ – JDA

          • ED;

            Fun little exercise – I commend you on your imagination. My only question is: How does your new line – “go take the chest at sanctuary with grave and just let my bonez rest in peace” – help with solving the riddle in the poem and finding Indulgence? 🙂 JDA

          • JDA,

            I am a, “don’t mess with the poem,” disciple. Yet, any searcher who reads it for more than the superficial message can be accused of messing with the poem. So that just goes with the turf. If the poem was to be taken purely at face-value, it would have been a 3-day event.

            These two lines (BTSWMG,JTTCAGIP) from one complete sentence in the poem are definitely the most awkward and mysterious lines in the poem. He obviously wanted to use these specific words, so he obviously has an important reason. It is also a single sentance for a reason, broken into two parts simply for poem construction.

            Besides the superficial (BTSWMG) meaning of -don’t stay long and enjoy the view- along with (JTTCAGIP) meaning of – take the chest and have peace about it, here the searcher needs more specifics to move with confidence.

            These two lines are sufficient in their original design, yet I studied the lines because of the ethical dilemma (IMPO) that a person will face when looking at the chest. The (GIP) line is the only thing that addresses that issue. Nice assurance from the author who, “thought of everything,” but no real peace if you are standing before a judge in cuffs (if it happened to come to that).

            Because one clue in the poem leads to another I find it difficult to discuss any of them. However, this (BTSWMG,JTTCAGIP) sentence stands out as a nice piece of fluffy commentary OR an opportunity to provide very specific instructions. Apparently it only is applicable to 1-5 or less searchers, at this point and even that is really old ff update info.

            Nevertheless, as I try to understand the “peace” that ff promises and remain in a state of force-placed patience, seeking God’s will, everyone still has the opportunity to find the finish line. Including many who will see no ethical dilemma at all.

          • ED

            I agree that this one sentence it baffling.

            The more I wrestle with the poem, the smarter some searchers seem to become.

            “Tarry Scant” – Don’t spend much time – maybe
            “Tarry Scant” – Tarry = Black like tar. Scant = a stone that is flat on two sides like a grave marker.
            “Tarry Scant – From above – taken another step –
            a flat black object – maybe a stain or even a shadow.

            “Marvel Gaze” – Look in wonderment.
            “Marvel Gaze” – Look at the marvelous view
            “Marvel” – Filled with wonder or astonishment
            “Gaze” – look steadily and intently,
            “Marvel Gaze” – From above – Look in astonishment at what is before you – (and how this is a seldom seen occurrence ).

            And I could go on and on 🙂 JDA

    • I’m not sure you are making a strong enough argument for your assertion when you use the “to force a little aberration” wording to initially describe it.

      To say anything other than what JDA has would require more data on how you are getting your “could produce” wording—are you using an anagram + duplicated letters to arrive at this? Are you using word definitions? A combination of the two?

      • My use of “aberration” is due to the spelling of “bonez” in order to use all letters, including the available z.

        The method to decifer is a bit difficult to explain and essentially uses MS Word (with color coding) to facilitate. It focuses on the combination of two contiguous lines of the poem that are comma separated parts of a single sentance. I suppose this is a hybrid anagram with duplicate letters (because ff does not follow all the rules and likes to use imagination, to create his own).

        This is the -only- portion of what I believe to be a “correct solve” (IMHO) that I had to force a little bit. So, I thought I would ask the fenncommunity for constructive feedback.

        • ED,

          Not to be a critic but I would have to agree with JDA, no matter how you look at what you proposed is messing with the poem.

          IMO, no word or a part of any word should be kept as written in the same order. There are some words that need the intended correct interpretation.

          Best regards,

          • Appreciate the opinion! Does not change my trajectory but I am interested in the constructive criticism of any fennatics (who know the books, know the blogs) because I will not be reading TTOTC, until I am ready for dessert.

    • In light of the fact that you say you used imagination and seem to mostly use fenn’s words, with a few letters necessarily duplicated:

      Fenn said don’t do that!!

      July 14, 2016 – http://mysteriouswritings.com/forrests-s…the-blaze/

      Mr. Forest,
      I was just wondering. If I can find the blaze, why should I worry about where warm waters halt? All I need to do is look “quickly down” like the poem says, and there is the treasure, right? ~ Philadelphia Franklin

      That’s correct Philly, but that’s not a plausible scenario. If you can find a fish already on your hook you needn’t go fishing, right? Don’t force those kinds of aberrational thoughts on yourself or you’ll likely walk back to your car with a very light back pack. F

      (and no, I don’t wish to debate you on this. If I wanted to do that, I would go point out the fallacy, as I see it, of a couple of other guys thinking! 🙂 )

    • Hi EthicalDilemma: in my opinion, anagramming to this degree is a dead end. With so many letters, the combinations are nearly endless — probably tens of thousands of “clean” solutions that don’t even require any word misspellings. It would be the word puzzle equivalent of trying to solve for the blaze first — ten billion blazes out there, and no way to choose the right one without being led to it.

    • Try using a different definition of chest than a treasure chest. A chest can be a bureau of drawers. What is a bureau? A government agency such as the BOR, BLM, FBI, BIA, etc.

      So just take the direction of the Bureau land and go in peace.

      This is why you won’t find the TC before going in peace and solving the remainder of the clues.

      • In a thousand years or ten thousand years, what governmental agency near the hidey place will exist, with the name including “bureau” or “Bureau”? Too much of a stretch for me, in my opinion.

        • A government agency doesn’t have to be there in a thousand years or even a hundred years. Forrest didn’t say ALL the clues would be around for a thousand years. But history in a thousand years will always show that a government agency existed at the time of the TC hiding.

          This definition of chest fits perfectly with the adjacent clues and leads to the final search area. Beyond the chest area there is an area of peace. And before the chest area is where your quest ceases and goes a different direction. So your quest goes left and you go “right” through bureau land. (“Just take the chest” means take the bureau land to the right [just = right].)

          In addition, there is a view of a tarry scant and a “marble” gaze at the divergence of “your quest” and the chest.

          All just my opinion.

          • Landhigh – Excellent post! Your solution fits my Baker’S Hole search area.

            Thinking about where Forrest may have collected the agate rocks on the Madison River to fashion his ‘Aggies’ in Spanish Class. And about the NPS and BLM and NFS and FWS management of public lands and rivers. And about the boundaries between them.

            And about Forrest’s Scrapbook #112 (read the last few sentences). And the Community Chest:

            https://monopoly.fandom.com/wiki/Community_Chest

            Thanks for the great ideas!

    • I’m only getting desserts = deserts. That’s not helping me since I thought the chest was in the mountains. 🙂

      • Did (yawn) you use a dictionary to help you solve (yawn) the poem? My dictionary doesn’t equate desserts with deserts, or vice-versa. But does define “desert”. A desert exists in the Rocky Mountains. As always, (yawn), all in my opinyawn.

    • Hi EthicalDilemma,

      I think you are on the correct track trying to find the puzzle in the poem so that you can actually work on something to solve it.

      I made a set of rules to follow for solving the puzzle. The rules should make sense, like using all the letters and don’t repeat words from the original phrase in the anagram (except maybe for 1 or 2 letter words like “a” “as” or “in”). I don’t combine lines, but if that works for you then great; but the rules you make should remain consistent for the entire puzzle.

      In my personal experience, it is very difficult to find really good-fitting (not necessarily correct) anagrams until you have decided where you think is the first clue in the poem (wwwh, IMO) and have visited that spot along with the rest of the canyon down.

      It is really really fun finding a good anagram that fits all the rules and also magically seems to point to another spot on the map, just ahead..

      • Muset,
        I agree with one exception. Forrest will break rules when it suits him, and when he can stay within his ethics while breaking them. So while I think that most of the poem follows certain rules I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a break in the pattern at some point. For example, what if the last two lines of the poem were an exception to a “solve each line on its own” rule, or something like that. That way the puzzle/pattern in the poem isn’t so random as to make it unsolvable, but you can’t be too rigid if the pattern doesn’t seem to hold on one occasion. If the poem seems to say something that makes sense, but is outside of the normal pattern, I wouldn’t ignore it. IMO.

        • I disagree and I won’t guess what Forrest would do in any situation.

          A good puzzle does not allow exceptions, IMO.

          Stay in the box that you make, I think. The point of the rules is to create constraints which limit the possible results.

    • Anna,

      Re: Your, “…use every letter…” comment. I did.
      Re: Your, “…force the poem…” comment. This is ff and “bonez” (IMHO) is not a forced decipher (in order to accomplish your 1st point).
      Re: Your anagrams. You have got to be kidding me! Is this really Sparrow???

      • This has been discussed before. I don’t see “marvel gaze” as
        meaning gravel maze, or even relating thereto.

        There was a time when I was thinking about Professor Marvel in
        the movie “The Wizard of Oz”. (He gazed into his crystal ball and
        claimed to see people crying.) So I thought this might relate to
        solving the poem. But it’s kinda “specialized knowledge”, so I don’t
        consider it critically important. My latest thought about “marvel gaze”
        is that the successful finder will be surprised by finding the TC, and
        marvel at this occurrence. I’m not at this time saying why. All IMO.

    • Well, it is certainly commendable that everything falls into place for you, except……”This is the -only- portion of what I believe to be a “correct solve” (IMHO) that I had to force a little bit.”

      However, just one month later he seems to imply that one shouldn’t force ‘any’ aspect of a solve:

      http://mysteriouswritings.com/forrest-fenn-treasure-resource-page-on-surprise-random-and-periodic-words-from-forrest-fenn/

      Posted August 20th, 2016: Don’t force the poem to fit your spot. Thank you Mark. F

      From your explanation it appears that you are possibly utilizing… “go take the chest at sanctuary with grave and just let my bonez rest in peace”…. as a confirmation only? Well, I wish you all the best….good luck and have a swell time!!

      later……..

      • Again, your point using, “Don’t force the poem to fit your spot. Thank you Mark. f” Would be absolutely true for any of the “billions” incorrect spot(s). Yet, affirming for a correct spot.

        I may not have Forrest’s intended message exactly correct. However this -proposed- decipher is completely within the context of the entire sentence and that would not be messing with the poem, since it reads correctly as written AND as deciphered (IMO).

        Thanks for the unintended debate!

  32. Geez. I didn’t realize until today what a grumpy old man Forrest is. I was trying to sell $46.00 shares in Chestnut Industires, and also a company called Goldenmore Corp. and he thought I was scamming him. I’ve been on the board for three years. Perhaps there was just a misunderstanding because I know Forrest is a good and honorable man.

  33. Ay caramba! Winds are starting to pick up down here….Alberto get me A Beer Stat! Oh well more time to reread TTOTC by candlelight.

  34. Now that I have discovered the word that is key (IMO), I decided to re-read TTOTC today. My book is well read and fillied with notes that probably contain more words written by me than those written by FF. Since I have already discovered that knowing the word that is key provides a logical straightforward understanding of the poem, I wondered what new incite I might gain from re-reading TTOTC. Im not currently at my search location and was anxious to prep for my upcoming return. It was fun to re-read and see that the word that is key actually allows me to understand the many questions Ive written in the pages. No more unanswered questions that I upreviously had. Knowing this word has brought greater clarity to TTOTC. Had someone handed me this word 3 1/2 years ago, I would not have had any problem seeing the riddle in the poem. I think the answer to the riddle lies in my search area. But if it doesnt, there are very limited other locations that could answer the riddle. Wondering if anyone else has discovered the word that is key or the riddle? The whole thing is brilliant!

    • It is indeed. But after the riddle is solved, I imagine the hard part is figuring out on ground.
      Finder

        • I believe so as of October 2018. The ground game has been my challenge. I have a final place. Ninth and final trip coming.

    • Flutterby ~ ‘Since I have already discovered that knowing the word that is key provides a logical straightforward understanding of the poem,…’

      How do you know?
      Serious question.

      At the time of the comment about; “…but only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key.” All we had was the first two clues solved. There had been many discussions of this. I tend to think fenn *might* have meant ‘A word’ that is key for stanza 2… rather than the idea… there is a magical key word [or THE key words that has been misquoted] that unlocks the whole poem.
      fenn even told us he looks for key words when he reads long emails. Could it be that each stanza or even line, has a word that is of key importance to that stanza or line? It is a possibility, right?

      But you said… ‘knowing the word that is key’… OK, sure, How do you know?
      I would think if this word [THE word] was such a find…or as you said ~ that know it, is key provides a logical straightforward understanding of the poem ~
      Seemingly then, we could hop right through the solve and find the chest.
      I’m only wondering if this keyword idea, is nothing more than a poke n hope and is turning into a deadbolt. LOL because everyone has one, and it seems no one can get through the door.

      Just sayin……………

      • Seeker,

        I don’t want to be a buttinsky, but this is a public blog. In all due respect to Flutter, (IMHO) knowing the key word that unlocks the poem would not drive a searcher to want to re-read any book. It will make you want to put your boots on and enjoy some high altitudes. Who knows, maybe the percieved key word and re-read of TTOTC will open the door to the true one – yet still will leave Flutter with an ethical dilemma to resolve.

        I am about due to revert back to silence and wish everyone safety! Remember, (ALL concerned) if you take -any- risks of life or limb to find this chest it will only be out of your own self-imposed foolishness (IMCO).

      • Seeker, Et all,
        Really not trying to poke at anyone with my word that is key. It sounds to me like Finder might know what I’m talking about, so would like to follow up with him/her. My intent in posting was to find others who have identified the word that is key (or believe they have), because having this word changes everything. I think it is possible that a group of people who have identified the word could put their heads together and find the tiny spot the TC is hidden. Because, remember that even if you understand the poem, four states of the RMs is a large area. I’m no longer focused on solving the poem. I’m focused on locating a tiny area in a four state range that contains the exact spot.

        I want to state that anything I say here is my opinion only.

        Based upon my understanding of FF’s quotes, I believe the following to be true.
        1. The words in the poem mean what they say.
        2. A complex understanding of geography might.
        3. The clues are straight forward

        I believe that FF is describing a location in the RM’s where he hid the T C. It has to be someplace that will possibly still be there in 1,000 years or so.

        Up until now, I’ve been just like everyone else trying to make sense of the poem. We all seem to have some questions that we have wanted answers to. Why the first stanza if the first clue is supposedly WWWH? Why “Take it in the canyon down”. What is “it”? Are we carrying something? Following a stream? A trail? I know there has been endless discussion about “Not far but too far to walk”. Somewhere there has to be an answer, doesn’t there?

        So I have studied the words over and over and over. . . . I have looked up every definition. I have read the books again and again. Studied the quotes, Studied the map. Studied geography.

        And then something clicked! It was like a light coming on! All of a sudden, I realized that by applying one definition to one word in the poem, the poem was saying something entirely different than I thought it was. I thought I had tried every definition, and I’ve done it again and again trying to make sense out of it all. I haven’t thought we could just randomly pick one canyon out of the RM’s and head down that canyon to pick up the TC, using any mode of transportation, etc. It is way simpler than that! Understanding the definition of this one word, and reading the poem through a single time with the understanding that the definition of this one word is not what I had thought has answered every single question I or anyone else has come up with. It clarifies what the poem is actually saying. It doesn’t rearrange the words or alter the definitions of any other word, but it allows me to see what the poem is really about. Its literally like the light came on!

        The poem describes a specific land formation. There are Not a lot of options that fit this description, but there are some. I believe I have the correct one, but until I’m holding the TC, I can’t really know for certainty. Ethical Dilemma suggested that if one understood the poem, they could go straight to the TC. Yes, and No. You still have to marry the poem to a map. Just because I now understand what land formation is the focal point of the poem, doesn’t mean I can go straight to it. There are several that fit the desciption, though I think one fits it best. I want to get it right. I can’t go back to my search location for a few days, so I decided to re-read the books to look for subtle clues that might help me decide which of several locations that fit the poem are the right one. I’m not talking about deciding which canyon out of billions are the right one. I’m talking about much less than a dozen spots which fit a very specifc description are the correct starting place. I believe I’ve got it, but I want to be sure.

        I honestly would love to hear from anyone else who has figured out the word that is key and is interested in collaborating. IMO, once this word that is key is discovered, the search has changed entirely. Its been narrowed to a very specific type of area. It still means BOG to find the TC and it still isn’t going to be easy, but I think that collaborating would allow a group of people to locate the TC sooner than one person could do on their own.

        Finder- I would love to message with you about the word that is key. You can ask Dal for my Email. If anyone else has identified the word that is key and can answer the riddle in the poem, I would love for you to get in touch with me also. I find it a bit sad that knowing this word takes me out of some of the discussions that are being had on things that are clearly answered in the poem and I no longer can discuss some of them. My search is taking on a tighter focus.

        -Flutterby

        • Flutterby,

          Your message sounds very real and I can sense that you are excited. Best wishes to you and above all safe searching!

          As I have come to understand the trove location is 99% completely safe (IMO), it has to be heart-breaking for ff to experience the loss of lives from poor decisions and/or other circumstances.

          Best wishes!

      • Hi Seeker/Flutterby: I’m sure my answer to the mystery of Forrest’s “word that is key” is not the same as Flutterby’s, and just as confident that it is correct. But neither of us can know with certainty that it is w/o Indulgence. I can say this about mine: you need it, both to solve WWWH with geographic specificity and confidence, and to understand the common element that ties all the clues together via continuiity (i.e. contiguous clues). It is NOT magical in the sense of unlocking all the poem’s clues (IMO), and so your suggestion (“Seemingly then, we could hop right through the solve and find the chest.”) is not possible simply by knowing the keyword. As you might expect, Forrest had other tricks up his sleeve to deter such a runaway chain-reaction solution, and clearly they worked quite well in slowing down the two-clue solvers.

        • Zaphod,
          I’m not certain that your word that is key is not the same as mine. It sure sounds like it is. I agree that the way FF put together the poem clearly prevents a “runaway chain-reaction solution”. If you are interested in discussing this further, you can message me. Dal can give you my Email. I’m not sure yet how to find out that we have the same word that is key without one person disclosing it to the other. But, I hope there is a way. I think there might be. I can’t imagine that any other word in the poem could possibly clarify what the poem is saying. You are right that you need it to find “WWWH with geographic specificity and confidence, and to understand the common element that ties all the clues together via continuiity”. If your word does that, I have a feeling we have the same word.

          We should probably move the word that is key discussion to the Key Word page. I basically posted here because I am looking for others who have reached this point in the solution, and hope to collaborate. So if you have the word that is key and you wish to collaborate, please message me. Dal can give you my Email. I will discuss the word that is key further on the Key Word page where it belongs.

          • Zap,

            I would not know about your first sentence but find myself agreeing with you more and more as your comment continues.

            Best wishes and safety to you, as well!

      • The whole [word that is key] debacle has seemingly spun into something I do not feel was Fenn’s intent when he made that comment. I tend to agree that when Fenn made the comment he was referring to the folks who had figured the first two clues and gotten close to the hidey spot… period. The time line seems to support this premise and not the idea that there is a * unlock all the clues* word. I think the proof is in the results to this point in the Chase. It is a feel good placebo to think otherwise though…

        • Hi Ken,
          I agree with your conclusion about the word that is key. It’s definitely the key for next clue that wasn’t cracked by 200-500 feet searchers. Some people are insinuating here that they found some “magic” word in the poem that helped them to understand everything in poem including location of WWWH and the blaze. It’s just BS. After they have BOTG there they will see it.

    • don’t you hate when that happens.

      hey people next time you move the chest, leave some dirt in the hole for gods sake, so we know we were in the right spot.

      • I personally have found the chest removed from
        at least three different places in a row. I think I
        might be just one spot behind that guy every time!

    • How many times have we heard the same excuse? Too many, and then they look for publicity and write a book that is so full of bull. $ made probably zero.

      LMAO is all that I can do!

  35. Stan Mills not Forrest Fenn

    Anyone interested in hiking he Yellowstone or just the Rockies should be interested in the following YouTube site by Mills;

    “https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFq2XIdmycNk2yK1Elmii7Q/featured”

    Great videos and spectacular views and maybe a clue but, I doubt that.

      • Lisa;

        What do you mean didn’t;t make the cut?

        I just watched The Crags video, the 1st time I have viewed it, a lot like all of his videos I’ve seen.

        Do you suppose this is what Forrest is talking about when he says not close to any human trail?

        Mr. Mills seems to be quite the explored and who knows maybe al lot like Forrest.

        • Jim – I meant Dal’s video posting cut, here on his blog.

          Yes, Stan Mills seems to be quite the intrepid explorer. Apparently, he likes to ‘go alone in there’, just like Forrest does. Hopefully, he carries a double barrel dose of bear spray.

  36. So I just finished reading TFTW for the first time so I apologize if this has already been talked about somewhere in the BLOGS. Did anyone notice his reference to “tight focus,” in the chapter about Eric Sloane?

    I also watched the video from Buffalo Bill Center where Forrest Fenn talked about the Clovis Cache. I found it interesting all the references to Cache in TTOTC, the SB about the Cloves, as well as on the Mysterious Writings Page in the “Six Questions with Forrest Fenn – Feb 4 2013.” Fenn was asked if there was an item which he would love to find still, but just hasn’t yet? His answer was “A clovis point between the ribs of a mammoth.”

    Check out this article about Clovis points and Colby Mammoth Kill Site in Worland, Wyoming. trib.com/news/state-and-regional/archaeologist-extraordinaire/article-9414a7f5-3223-5c37-a668-3a2e2da81f97.html

    This site is located north of Thermopolis, Wyoming. Just south of there to the west is an area called McNutt. Page 64 in TFTW references First Lt. McNutt.

    Through my research, I also found that FF donated an amount between $5000-$10,000 in 2011-2012 to the University of Wyoming which designates the money to archaeology preservation in Worland, Wyoming.

    Thoughts?

    • James…you might also be interested in the book “Ice Age Americans” by Ken Tankersley. Tells an interesting story, with Forrest as one of the main characters, of following clues to find the Crook County Clovis Cache in NE Wyoming. Dal did a great write up on this blog. Forrest no longer owns either Clovis cache. I had a fun solution that included the tri-state point where Idaho, Wyoming, and Utah share a border…very close to where the Fenn Cache was thought to have been discovered. When I arrived, there was a large rectangular depression in the ground. Someone had stolen the monument stone marker…but for just a minute I thought…

    • Margie Goldsmith – Another great article! I always love to read what you write. Beautifully done.

      But what about the 16th century Italian, weighing 44 pounds part? Is that new, corrected info. about the bronze chest???

      • Lisa, I don’t know the location, but I think the very first quote Fenn gave he stated it was 44lbs. Then later on settled on 42.

        • James Collier – From Renard Miroir’s post on January 31, 2019 (on Dal’s story comparing Forrest’s bronze chest with a similar one found in a museum):

          In the forward of Once Upon A While, page IX, Doug Preston says:
          “On the right side of the vault, on a sturdy shelf, sat a bronze CASKET of ancient workmanship that he had recently acquired. GENE THAW, the noted cxollector, had identified it as a rare Romanesque lock-box dating back to 1150 A.D.”

          And if that bronze chest weighs 44lbs, fully loaded, I will just dump out one of those hen’s egg-sized gold nuggets in the Madison. Then it will weigh the proscribed 42lbs. Giggles.

          • Correction: more than one of those hen’s egg-sized gold nuggets plus a few gold coins will have to be tossed:

            Troy weight is a system of units of mass that originated in 15th-century England[1], and is primarily used today in the precious metals industry. Its units are the grain, pennyweight (24 grains), troy ounce (20 pennyweights), and troy pound (12 troy ounces). The grain is the same grain used in the more common avoirdupois system. By contrast, the troy ounce is heavier than the avoirdupois ounce, while the troy pound is lighter than the avoirdupois pound.

            More giggles.

    • Good article with some anomalies that are not consistent with what we hear or read on the blogs almost daily. Thanks Margie, Dal and Forrest.

    • Thanks Dal, Forrest, and Margie,

      Interesting statement on page 171 from Douglas Preston that is slightly different (correct me if I am wrong) than in the foreword of OUAW:

      “I was concerned that some really clever person would find it quickly – someone who knew about Forrest Fenn’s life,” says Preston, ‘but Forrest said no, the treasure is really well hidden and that it might take at least 100 years for someone to find it because even with the clues, it’s still difficult to find.’

      The OUAW version on page xi (revised):
      I said that there were a lot of smart people out there and I feared the poem would be deciphered quickly and the treasure found in a week. But he assured me that the poem, while absolutely reliable if the nine clues were followed in order, was extremely difficult to interpret — so tricky that he wouldn’t be suprised if it took nine hundred years before someone cracked it.

      I think the curious line is: “…even with the clues, it’s still difficult to find.” Not sure when Preston was interviewed for this but Forrest notes in the article:
      “In 13 months, I’ll be 90 years old so I wish someone would hurry up and find the treasure.”

    • Thanks for the link, Dal! First thing that caught my eye is that Margie duplicated Forrest’s typo from TTOTC: “Pre-Colombia”. Well, sort of a typo — the gold figures certainly pre-date the existence of the country of Colombia, but what she really meant was pre-Columbian (i.e. prior to Christopher Columbus). Margie spells it correctly on page 171. A little unfortunate to see Forrest’s name spelled wrong in the large font title.

      Other “anomalies” are the year he got cancer is off by a decade. She also duplicates Forrest’s misspelling of O’Keefe (should be two f’s, ironically something you’d think Forrest wouldn’t err on except deliberately). The snippet of the poem provided on page 169 has “They’ll” instead of “There’ll”. The bronze chest’s creation date has morphed to the 16th century from the 12th, and its weight has grown from 42 to 44 lbs. (though I’ve seen that 44-lb. figure before).

      • Wow Zap!
        You need to get a job as an editor somewhere important You are amazing at finding typos and other errors…

      • Well thanks, Dal, but I totally credit (blame?) Forrest for programming me to spot aberrations. 😉

      • There are so many errors in this article, but what really struck me was Forrest saying that even if we have all the clues it’s still going to be difficult to find…

        • Hello Eaglesabound. The same statement concerned me, too. I tried to see if there’s any other way it could mean, and what I came up with was that we are given the clues in the poem, but we need to understand what they mean, which will be difficult (but not impossible). It’s possible it wasn’t meant that way.

        • Eaglesabound;

          I am not sure why this surprises you. How can the poem lead you to a 10″ X 10″ spot? It might lead you to a blaze, whatever that is – Let’s say that it is a rock formation. So, you are there – but on which side of this rock formation are you to look? How far out from the rock formation? What if it is in a hole, covered by rocks, or a bushy tree or limbs? Unless you know EXACTLY where to look, and WHAT to look for, you might spend a L O N G week-end just looking, even IF you are at the Blaze…IF that is the last clue – and it MIGHT not be.

          Seeker just might have the right idea, and a shadow or ray of light on Sunrise on Summer Solstice just might be needed to pinpoint the spot – but then ONLY of you follow the correct shadow. A shadow of what? hoB? Heavy Loads? – The Blaze? Who knows? Are these all different “things”? Or are they one and the same? Difficult, but not impossible.
          Think, analyze and prepare for……. JMO – JDA

          • Seeker & JDA,
            my spouse thanks you. Your “opinions”
            about how difficult it is; need to be there at summer solstice, find the right shadow, bush, etc etc pretty much talked me out of another b.o.g.

            Please refresh my memory…
            what did Forrest say about if you were within 12 feet??

          • SB – 78 has the following:
            “I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.” f

            Hope this helps – JDA

          • “I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.” f

            Hi JDA,

            what do you think about this 12′ distance from the treasure? Can we hypothesise that searcher will have visual contact with the blaze only at 12′ and closer?
            For example you stay right near the blaze (12′ or less) but didn’t recognise this object as the real blaze (was not enough wise). Will you find TC in this case or will just pass it?

          • Andy S.

            Please note that the quote says, ” It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.” f Forrest did not say, ” It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not SEE it.” f This tells me that one might be within 12′ and still NOT SEE it. This tells me that it might be in a hole with something covering that hole.

            It could also be in another kind of hole.

            Those who come within 12′ probably have figured out ALL of the clues, and have found other hints that will tell them EXACTLY where to look, and what to look for. A casual hiker, or a searcher who has not done all of his/her homework might well walk right past it. JMO Thanks for askin’ JDA

          • Andy,
            I think we need to throw on Casey’s Q&A into the mix. Basic; if you can find the blaze the distance to the chest would be obvious.
            You also bring the word “wise” into the mix as well. I think, it wouldn’t matter about the distance from the blaze to the chest if [ as you seem to imply ] having been wise enough to know it is the blaze, and why.
            Another option could be the hidey spot itself. Just because the chest is 10′ sq. the place it lays in way could be much larger, yet concealed itself. We have been told; not in a cave, mine or tunnel, as well as under water.
            The question is; how can a larger areas [ at least large enough for a single person ] be concealed. [yet not in one of the above places.]
            If you could find such a place 12′ doesn’t matter at all.

            I have often wondered [ by a few ATFs ] if we need to crawl through a section to get to another. This almost force two trips. It might make.. leave your search partner in the car, a bit more understandable. A Q&A about alternative anything besides walking, and other bits and pieces from other interviews.

            IMO you seem imply the wise well. IF anyone {I think fenn means a searcher} gets that close they should be “Been wise” to know they “found the blaze.”…………. It is what we are looking for.
            For this reason I like Becky’s non-answered question. Can the blaze be pre-determined by the poem or can it only be determined at the search area?- becky.
            It could be… we know of it from the poem… but can’t predetermined exactly what it is from the poem… and… only can, on site.
            For example; IF HL is the blaze… we could know that clue as the blaze [from the poem], yet not know what HL is until we see on site, having been “wise” to discover it for what it is… the blaze.

          • Seeker;

            You pose some interesting possibilities. You always seem to get the one brain cell I have left, close to short circuiting 🙂 – JDA

          • Or we can predetermine the blaze from the poem before botg instead of taking all these half steps.

          • Thanks for the answer, JDA.
            I agree with your hypothesis that TC might be in a hole with something covering that hole. Maybe 12′ distance will give visual contact only with the blaze. Forrest said that the blaze is a single object but never gave any information about size and color of this object.
            When asked on Mysterious Writings on April 29, 2016 “Mr. Fenn, Which direction does the Blaze face? North, South, East or West?
            Forrest said: “Foxy I didn’t take a radial off of the blaze Foxy. I’m thinking it may not be any of those directions. f”
            Single narrow crag (steep rugged rock) staying between trees will not face any these directions.
            The problem is that during the search we can find too many objects that can be blazes.

          • JDA,

            Understanding that you can only use the material you have to work with, but to keep everything in proper perspective that SB 78 quote is about 30 months (or 900 days old).

            IMHO, ff will never update that benchmark because he does not have to do so and nobody deserves such confirmation.

            Regarding knowing the clues and still not understanding the significance of where a person once stood. I can believe that.

          • Ethical Dilemma;

            Wait a minute ED – Did I miss the expiration Date Warning somewhere? Let’s see, The Thrill of the Chase was first published on January 1, 2010 – Today is September 5, 2019. If my calculations are correct that is 9 years, 8 months and 5 days or 3535 days, and as far as I know, the poem is still valid – and the clues in it are still valid. Why are you putting an expiration date on a SB? What is the “Cut-off” date? Is SB – 103 still valid? how about SB 202?

            Seems a bit silly if you ask me – JMO – JDA

          • JDA: EthicalDilemma is just stating that he thinks the 12-foot information is stale (just as the “may have solved four clues” information is stale), and that if someone had been closer than that there’s no guarantee that Forrest would update the figure.

            TTOTC wasn’t published on 1/1/2010. Fenn was still finishing up the book in summer 2010. The release date was 10/25/2010, so we aren’t at the 9-year mark yet.

          • Technically TTOTC has 1/1/2010 as the publishing date as listed under One Horse Land and Cattle publishing company. The release date is another story…

        • I think he is referring to the physical nature of the Chase. You may have all the clues but are you in good enough physical shape to retrieve it? Or is going to prove too difficult?

        • “it’s still going to be difficult to find”…

          I was just wondering what took him so long to solidify that point.

          Think precision, think “within several steps”, There is only a few ways to get precision for a several step solution. and many of those “ways” are missing from the poem. Heck there is only a few ways to gain precision on a map even without obfuscation.
          Then we have ff eliminating even more ways to gain precision by saying there are no graphs, codes, curved lines and such to look for in the poem.

          without precision one should still not be leaving the “canasta” game even if they have a WWWH. if they don’t have precision, they have nothing.

          People travel from London or someplace else in the world with just a general area to look in thinking a blaze will hit them upside the head when they get there. They are really wasting their money and time imo.

          • What if it is below a hole in the floor of something. He said not associated with any structure but then made sure to tell us to look up the definition. Such as the place in TFTW

    • Good article, but it bugs me that it includes only stanzas 2-4 and makes it look like that is all of the poem.

    • I can’t open that site on my computer because of some gremlin in my home network or the age of my computer or browser or me.

      Is there any new information in there?

        • Margie claimed in an earlier story that the contents of the chest were worth $2million then in a later story she upgraded the value to $3million …Now she claims it’s worth $3-4 million. The value seems to keep going up…must be Reaganomics at work…

          • Thanks Dal, the new articles provided for interesting discussions.

            Thanks Seeker & JDA for your input regarding “structure” & precision before boots on ground.

            Here’s my dilemma with defining the word “Structure”…

            Does ff mean the treasure is not associated with “ALL” definitions of structure or is he being intentionally selective in his brain and only referring to one definition of structure? Has anyone asked ff?

            From the Century dictionary:
            STRUCTURE:
            To form into a structure; organize the parts or elements of in structural form.
            noun In chem., the order of attachment of the atoms which constitute the molecule of a substance. It is expressed by a structural or constitutional formula.
            noun in petrography, a structure produced in metamorphic rocks by the development of small lenses of granular texture in a micaceous laminated mass.
            noun The act of building or constructing; a building up; edification.
            noun That which is built or constructed; an edifice or a building of any kind; in the widest sense, any production or piece of work artificially built up, or composed of parts joined together in some definite manner; any construction.
            noun An organic form; the combination of parts in any natural production; an organization of parts or elements.
            noun Mode of building, construction, or organization; arrangement of parts, elements, or constituents: form; make: used of both natural and artificial productions.
            noun Specifically— In biology, manner or mode of organization; construction and arrangement of tissues, parts, or organs as components of a whole organism; structural or organic morphology; organization: as, animal or vegetable structure; the structure of an animal or a plant; the structure of the brain, of a coral, etc.
            noun In geology, various characteristic features, considered collectively, of rocks and of rock-forming minerals, which features differ much in their nature and origin. Stratification, jointing, cleavage, and foliation are among the principal structural peculiarities of rock-masses, which are chiefly to be studied in the field. Some geologists would limit the term structure to petrographic phenomena of this kind, which have been designated as macroscopic rock-structures. The minuter structural details of rocks and their components are in part included under the name structure, and in part under that of texture. Thus, a rock may have a crystalline, granular, spherulitic, perlitic, etc., structure, or a flinty, earthy, glassy, etc., texture. But the usages of geologists differ in the employment of terms of this kind, and there can be no precise limit drawn separating textures from structures. In general, however, the structural peculiarities of a rock are those which specially interest the geologist; the textural belong more properly to the mineralogist. Microstructures, or those details of structure belonging to the constituents of rocks which are in general not to be satisfactorily studied without the aid of the microscope, are peculiarly the field of observation of the lithologist. For macrostructures, see breccia, cleat, cleavage, 3, concretionary, fragmentary, foliation, 6, joint, 2, schist, slate and slaty, and stratification; for microstructures and textures, see amygdaloidal, cryptocrystalline, crystalline, felsophyre, globulite, granitoid, granophyre and granophyric, holocrystalline, massive, 5, microcrystalline, microlith and microlithie, ocellar, pegmatitic, perlitic, porphyritic, scoriaceous, spherulitic, trachytic, vesicular, vitreous, and vitrophyre.

            I would love Dal’s input or anyone who has asked & received input directly from Forrest about structure. If ff said look up the definition, (not definitions) then which definition is ff thinking of?
            Everyone seems to assume ff means a man made structure. Where is the evidence this is what he meant?
            Please help if you have ideas.

            Note: I don’t think its in an old cabin, or outhouse either. But if ff meant its not associated with a natural structure or , that adds a new dimension to solving the poem.

          • 42
            I have never spoken to Forrest about his definition of structure…but if he is ruling out anything with an atomic structure I think I’ll have a serious problem locating it…
            My assumption has always been that he is referring to any kind of structure crafted by humans…including an outhouse, ranger cabin, cairn or kiva…but it would allow a natural rock shelter or any other naturally occurring geologic or biologic structure.

          • This might help:

            Since the poem, have you added clues?

            “The Today show wanted clues every time I was on, but I made sure none of them would take anyone closer to the treasure. I’ve said it’s not in an outhouse because people were digging up outhouses. When people were going to tear the side of a building down, I had to say it’s not associated with any kind of structure.”f

            https://people.com/celebrity/author-forrest-fenn-talks-about-missing-treasure-hunter/

            JDA

          • 42-
            Not exactly “healthy”. But when someone decides that HOB can’t be Ranger Brown’s cabin because it’s a structure…then folks jump on that idea because Forrest implied that only the chest was not associated with a structure when he first gave that clue on the Today show:
            “No need to dig up the old outhouses. The treasure is not associated with any structure.”
            https://www.today.com/video/new-clue-revealed-in-new-mexico-treasure-hunt-23580739626

            and I think he did a lot to clarify his intent with “associated” when he answered a question about that statement on Jenny’s website:
            Mr. Fenn, when you said not associated with any structure did that mean all 9 clues or just where the chest sits?
            Thanks, d

            Yes d, it means the treasure is not hidden in or about a structure. Google “structure” for more information.f
            http://mysteriouswritings.com/questions-with-forrest-fenn-and-the-thrill-of-the-chase/

            However, he opened up a new can-o-worms with the way he answered that question

            Most searchers believe he is saying “yes” to the part about all nine clues not being associated with a structure…and that would have sufficed…wouldn’t it??
            But then he goes on to say:
            “the treasure is not hidden in or about a structure”

            Now the confusing part of this is that he implied in the “yes” that none of nine places the clues refer to are associated with a structure…and then goes on to say that neither is the treasure…
            Suggesting that none of the nine clues are at the same place that the treasure is located…
            This is confounding…
            Some people have used this second part of his answer to fuel their argument that the treasure is not “under” the blaze, or even near it but certainly not part of it because he had to list it separately from the nine clues.

          • https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/associatedDefinition of associated

            1 : joined together often in a working relationship On April 29, 2016, the Firm completed the spin-off of Quorum Health Corporation (“QHC”), comprised of 38 associated hospitals and related outpatient services in 16 states …— Mack Mortenson
            2 : related, connected, or combined together a computer terminal and its associated printer The Two Arms Curl develops the arm flexors … and associated muscle groups.— Philip J. Rasch

            So, here is a place to start – JDA

          • Since the treasure isn’t associated with a structure, and the clues are contiguous (i.e. a very specific example of “associated”), then is it not logical to assume that none of the clues are associated with a structure?

            Supporting evidence for this hypothesis is Cynthia’s exchange with Forrest about her using a CCC cabin at one point as her home of Brown, and Forrest telling her, “Don’t you remember? I said it can’t be associated with a structure.” From that exchange, one can conclude one of two things: that home of Brown and the treasure are co-located, or none of the clues are associated with a structure.

          • Thanks everyone for that information about that article.

            I think Margie is low-balling the value of the treasure and its associated stories.

          • Zap ~ ‘From that exchange, one can conclude one of two things: that home of Brown and the treasure are co-located, or none of the clues are associated with a structure.’

            Or both?
            We also have the comment about, if we knew the location of hoB, it would lead to the chest.
            The point is; If all those statements are to be true to each other, is it not possible that; home of Brown and the treasure are co-located, and the blaze?
            I mean, if the treasure is close to hoB, the blaze must be as well… this leads to Casey’s Q&A;
            Q)Mr. Fenn: How far is the chest located from the blaze? ~ casey

            A) Casey, I did not take the measurement, but logic tells me that if you don’t know where the blaze is it really doesn’t matter. If you can find the blaze though, the answer to your question will be obvious. Does that help?f

            Although, I’ll admit many won’t like the ideas. It places the chest at a physical location in the second stanza, rather than, its mentioning in the 4th stanza… right?

        • Hi Dal: sounds like Margie is following Forrest’s price curve for Eric Sloane paintings. 😉

  37. People have imagined that when someone falls in love, it’s because Cupid shot an arrow
    into/through the person’s heart. Have you ever imagined that FF has visualized his heart with
    an arrow through it? I have imagined this. And I believe that FF gets a big kick out of visual
    things, although he seems to be quite modest about his own abilities, etc. regarding art. All IMO.

    • Hello Tall Andrew. I believe Mr. Fenn to be a person with a lot of imagination. Could he have imagined such a thing as you suggested? I don’t know, nor have I done so. I do believe he enjoys visual things as many of us do. Imagine yourself walking in a pine-scented forest, alongside a trickling, crystal clear brook. Crackling sounds underfoot from twigs. To the left, a doe with her fawn leaping away. To the right, you see…

  38. The fact that someone wrote an article about FF for the Wine Dine and Travel magazine seems rather ironic to me. When FF was wandering around Borders looking for a book to read, he said, “I didn’t spend much time in the children’s section or cooking or travel.” (TTOTC p 12) So, you have to wonder if he will ever open that magazine and read that article. 🙂

    • Hi Flutterby: Margie Goldsmith was one of the first writers to do stories on Forrest Fenn and his treasure — Huffington Post in February 2011 and August 2011, the Robb Report in March 2012, and the famous United Airlines Hemispheres article in January 2013.

      You can find cached versions of the earliest two Huffington Post articles by Googling “Margie Goldsmith Forrest Fenn Huffington Post 2011”. The following link may work for you for the August 23, 2011, one:
      https://www.huffpost.com/entry/2-million-santa-fe-treasu_b_932299
      (It doesn’t work for me — one of the pop-up ads causes my browser to say the site is not secure.)

      Robb Report link: https://robbreport.com/shelter/art-collectibles/the-robb-reader-forrest-fenn-230618/

      Unfortunately, the Hemisphere’s link is long dead. –Rob

      • Note in the Hemisphere’s article the year reported that Ralph Lauren visited Forrest — 1996!

        “In 1996 the designer paid a visit to his friend Forrest Fenn, who lived in Santa Fe, N.M. Fenn had recently undergone chemo and radiation for kidney cancer, and was told there was only a 20 percent chance for his survival. He sold his successful Santa Fe art gallery and settled in to await the inevitable.”

        Is Margie’s year correct? If so, that would help explain the 1988 + 15 years discrepancy that so many searchers harp on (1988+15=2003 vs. 2009-2010 hiding year). If Forrest was undergoing chemo and radiation in 1996, then that suggests a cancer recurrence, since surely Forrest wouldn’t have waited 8 years following diagnosis to begin such treatment.

        • I think Margie’s 1996 year is probably erroneous in the Hemisphere’s article. It is well documented that in 1988 Richard Matteucci bought Fenn Gallery from Forrest as a gift for his wife Nedra.

      • A couple interesting comments from 2013 under Margie’s Hemisphere’s story:

        Chase Reynolds Ewald Says:
        January 6th, 2013 at 4:12 pm

        “Forrest is indeed one of a kind. It’s an honor simply to be insulted by him. I have seen the treasure (not because I’ve found the hiding place, unfortunately) and it’s for real, from the ancient chest itself, recovered from a shipwreck, to the jewels, coins and raw nuggets of gold within. Only a true storyteller could have come up with an idea that could excite the imagination of so many.”

        The bronze chest recovered from a shipwreck?? First I’ve read this.

        The other comment isn’t new to me or most people, but it’s the first time I’ve seen a written reference:

        Greg Says (March 5th, 2013 at 9:30 pm): “I just heard about Forrest Fenn last week! I have not yet read his book, but I have read many articles & interviews. In some of those interviews, Forrest says things that might be described as ‘clues.’ For example:
        … 5) ‘The hidden treasure is surrounded by trees.’ My interpretation: The hiding place is in a forest. (That’s his name: Forrest!)”

        Now, that’s not really saying much — I believe Forrest may have been the one to point out that if you go out far enough, every place is surrounded by trees. I’d still be curious where Greg originally read his #5 quote.

      • Zaphod,
        Surely you knew I was teasing about FF not reading the article because it was in a magazine about cooking and travel. Lol Thanks for the links

        • Hi Flutterby: sure, I knew you were joshing about the cooking and travel connection. I was addressing this: “someone wrote an article about FF”. It just seemed to me like you weren’t aware of Margie’s long-standing connection to the Chase.

    • I think FF’s ego is healthy and he’ll make it a *point* to read that article. I wood.
      As always, IMO.

  39. It’s amazing that the Chase can end with someone walking into a Christmas stocking. At least its shaped like one. lol. This has been one of the most fun things I have ever been involved in. What an incredible poem. I hope to meet Forrest one day. What an absolutely incredible person.

        • Lisa & Sparrow, wouldn’t it be fun if Forrest parked his dad’s airstream somewhere on that pirate-boot shaped Horse Butte and stuffed the treasure nearby?

          The perimeter of hebgen looks like the treasure chest with a pirate boot lid. I’ve done looked there with the rest of the search community, because its so perfect. What I believe Forrest left there as a treasure IMO: he assisted with others donating land for a ‘day use’ recreation area and nature preserve for all to use on Hebgen Lake – Rainbow point and surrounding area.

      • Wow— they could call that place “LITTLE ITALY” lol. I wasn’t referring to that—but that’s pretty cool. 🙂

    • If you think that “the Chase” will end with someone walking into a Christmas
      stocking, will you please explain why you think this? Thanks in advance.

      • Oh I just said it is shaped like one. They wont be walking into a literal Christmas stocking, just something shaped a little like one. Although I bet it SMELLS Christmassy there. 🙂

        • Thank you, Sparrow. In my solve, there is nothing in the search area (say, within a mile of the hidey space) that looks like a Christmas stocking. But there is something that looks kinda like Snoopy might look at that time of year. All part of my opinion.

          • Yes. It has the shape of a kid’s Christmas stocking, smells like Christmas. You’ll most likely burst out in song with Nat King Cole “Chestnuts roasting on an open fire….”. It’s a magical place. It’s a place that both young and old can enjoy. 🙂

  40. Andy, thanks for resurrecting this interesting comment from ff:

    When asked on Mysterious Writings on April 29, 2016 “Mr. Fenn, Which direction does the Blaze face? North, South, East or West?
    Forrest said: “Foxy I didn’t take a radial off of the blaze Foxy. I’m thinking it may not be any of those directions. f”

    IMO the chest will likely be located below the final blaze.

    And numerically F-O-X can each equal 6. Forrest said, “foxy I didn’t take a radial off the blaze…” 6’s layered on top of each other form a sun burst or radial. SUN burst is a Blaze. Maybe Forrest is saying the blaze is a sunburst; asterisk shape and he didn’t remove a radial from the blaze.. although IF the blaze is distilled like gin down to individual letters – well they would most likely be B-L-A-Z or E.

    (A=1, B=2, etc. double digits simplified to single digits ie (10 1+0=1)
    The KEY I use to convert letters to numbers which gives you road numbers,
    And possible latitude/longitude guides.
    A-J-S = 1
    B-K-T = 2
    C-L-U = 3
    D-M-V = 4
    E-N-W = 5
    F-O-X = 6
    P-G-Y = 7
    H-Q-Z = 8
    I-R-= 9

    • Hi 42: if your latitude or longitude has a zero anywhere in it, this kind of letter to number numerology cannot produce it.

      • Zaph, of course you are correct in strict theory. I simply use O as zero. I don’t believe the actual complete coordinates are in the poem. However, after converting every letter in the poem to a numerical value, I do believe IMO that ff built in west lat and north long guides. Here’s the rub… I believe the poem solves to 9 different locations stretching through all 4 states plus a key Comanche texas location. Trying to determine WHY one needs to solve those locations is the $3 million question. My hunch is that each provides one of 9 clues (or is just one of ff’s Favorite places)

        • Zaph, Dal, JD – going with the FF=66=radials=sunburst theme for the blaze
          Ties in nicely with 9 clues. 9’s shaped like those radial 6’s gives you “there are 9 clues” clues that are shaped as 9’s.

          • Dal, have you ever visited with Forrest about his adult relationship with his brother Skippy? Do you know if Forrest calls him Skip, Skippy, or something else from when they were young kids?

          • 42
            Every time I have heard Forrest talk about his brother he refers to him as Skippy. Everyone called Forrest, Bubba…

          • Hope u don’t mind if I stick a ha’penny in here.
            I also believe Lat/Long are part of the chase but not in the way yall are looking at it.
            However I don’t think it will reveal the location of the gold in the way u think.
            It might put u in the ballpark though.
            Let me throw a curve ball u.
            What if the blaze is just that a blaze, a trail in the forest that leads u astray if u are not paying attention.
            Imagine for example if the blaze is in Temple Texas at his childhood home which burnt down twice.
            Looking past childhood dreams to the future and tying it in to the chase.
            “When his mortgage was finally paid, he and my mother went out in the back yard and ceremonially burned the papers. They said it was a religious experience.” Page 119 TTOTC
            1413 N. Main St.
            1+4+1+3=9 What do u think. Perhaps 1,413 feet. 4 trips 353.25ft.
            Just doing daily Fenn exercises what do yall think?

          • JDA
            Well it’s just an idea I’m playing with, but if the blaze in the poem is not the end of the chase what are we to do with the rest of the poem? The real blaze is something only Fenn would know and is an abstract idea. It’s like looking in the ashes of a fire and bringing the past into play. The blaze exists but in a space and time only Fenn knows. I could not say what that is. All I can offer with this exercise is the starting point being the sedan. If you time your swing just right I’ll bet you could knock the hide off that ball.
            1413 feet is also there.
            While we’re at it how about 5000 ft 102000 ft
            10200-5000= 5200
            5200ft is a littleless than a mile. Mile = 5280 ft.

          • The real blaze is something only Fenn would know and is an abstract idea. This is just IMO not Fenn. I mean the abstract part of the blaze.

          • me

            Regarding the blaze being an abstract object. What about this post?

            Question posted 5/28/2014:
            Is the Blaze one single object? ~ Scout Around
            In a word – Yes

            mysteriouswritings.com/questions-with-forrest-fenn-and-the-thrill-of-the-chase/questions-with-fenn-archive-1/
            JDA

          • JDA
            No doubt there is a blaze but what I’m saying is the blaze in the poem and the actual blaze is different. Hope this clears it up what I’m saying.
            Two blazes. The one in the poem and the one in the exercise.

            This just an idea not trying to lead anyone astray.

            Thanks for the link JDA.
            I got lost over there for awhile. Why do you think he added that part about “horizon”? Are we supposed to look at the summer horizon. I think someone around here was searching for the summer solstice maybe this will help.

            MW
            Question posted 5/28/2014:
            Is the Blaze one single object? ~ Scout Around
            In a word – Yes
            I have received a few hundred emails from searchers who are sure they know what the blaze is. Ideas range from a mark on a tree, a rock, a sign, a fire, the side of a bluff, a waterfall, a spot on the head of a horse, a rainbow, and even a live owl that flew away when it was approached.
            As a side note: with summer on the close horizon, searchers should review the rules about being safe in the mountains. f

          • zaphod73491
            No.
            “The blaze is a physical thing.”
            “The blaze is something you can look at”
            It’s probably something with a happy face sticker.
            LOL

        • 42—
          I have to say that I agree with everything you say above, and wish everyone had your common sense approach.

    • 42, if you are looking to find numbers, best not to guess that he used a=1,b=2,c=3,d=4,L=3, etc…If f is to use numbers, they would be found within the poem. Example:
      Line 21- So hear me all and listen good. What the line can possibly be saying:
      So he “are” me= Some
      all and l is ten go od. So you have : some a+l+l+l = 10, the word good serves a purpose, tells you to use the ‘odd” values. There are 3 answers: A=1, L=3, or A=7,L=1, or A=4, L=2. Forget the even values, so you have A=1,L=3. This would almost seem like he is using the a=1,b=2,c=3,d=4, etc…, or that a=7,l=1. In which case more looking into the poem would be needed because it looks like he is coming up with his own values.
      So, you may be right, but to just guess I don’t believe that should be done. The poem, in it’s way will tell you.
      If you want to know the real answer, IMO, a ends up = 7, and l ends up = 1. And, imo, the poem only gives about half the values, but there is a way to solve for all, even “x”. But of course, it’s all interpretation of how to read the poem. Since some may wonder, if you are looking for the number values that the poem has offered, and this is in my own opinion, here are the values:
      a=7, b=2, c=3, d=1, e=3, f=1, g=3, h=2, i=3, j=1, k=3, l=1, m=3, n=2, o=3, p=1, q=3, r=1, s=3, t=2, u=7, v=1, w=7, x=9, y=7, z=1.
      I said the poem only gives half the values, to solve for all, you take the primary value and go forward that many places and backwards that many places. Those two letters will equal each other. Example:
      a=7, so 7 forward is h, 7 back is t, h and t equal each other. You can see for yourself, they all match up. Also, the primary values equal 80, and the secondary values equal 57. An example of there use, the name Forrest Fenn= 14 and 8. There are 148 pages in the book.
      IMO, the numbers open up the poem, give that “x’ on a map, and are crucial.
      Why am I so confident about the numbers, easy, I’m just not that smart enough to have the numbers for one, be solved like they were and equal what they do, two, to fit his stories, and three, again, I’m just not smart enough to have had these numbers match up the way they do. I didn’t know how many pages the book would have and that f’s name would match. I didn’t know what a “rainbow halo” was and that it’s seen at 22 degrees, his rainbow. And the stories, lol, I would have had to know them before he made them available. Something directed me, the poem. But that’s all for each searcher to determine. A lot don’t see the numbers and that’s fine, I just do.
      But I will add that he does use the regular system also, like you have said, 66, or FF. I see it a lot in the numbers 2442, and ’97. He was 66 in the year ’97. I see it as f signing his initials, when I see these numbers, it is cause to look deeper into how.
      Hint in the book, ‘environmentalists to some degree’. Just add environmentalists and to(two), to get a degree. Okay, enough rambling, all IMO.

      • And 42, the blaze for me, ties into 97. Marvel gaze. it’s the hint, Andrew Marvell, Upon Appleton House.

      • Sparrow – thanks for a vote of confidence. Although after 6 years of this thing we call the chase, I’ve learned a valuable lesson…confidence is not = to success; I treasure family and the great outdoors more than gold.

        poison ivy – you’re approach is obviously more sophisticated than mine. Wish you the best with your efforts. (I tend to stay away from cyphers, and think more like a kid.)

        • As always 42, best of luck. It is pretty nice to take the family out into the mountains, isn’t it? Wish only the best of times for you and all.
          (Just don’t go in November), at least for Montana…

  41. Dal, JDA, Zap

    Thanks for your guidance and unbiased approaches to forrest’s answers. I need your reasoning and ff expertise today.

    I’m trying to determine if a distinct rock formation – naturally formed – could be a structure by ff’s Definition? (I may be overthinking this.)

    OR if the treasure sat with in the bounds of an ancient man made rock ruin. But is not “associated” with that ruin – is that ok?

    • 42;

      I can only offer an opinion based on nothing.

      “I’m trying to determine if a distinct rock formation – naturally formed – could be a structure by ff’s Definition? ” My opinion it is NOT a structure, and COULD be used.

      “if the treasure sat with in the bounds of an ancient man made rock ruin. But is not “associated” with that ruin – is that ok?” –
      My answer – If it is within the bounds of an ancient man made rock ruin – How is it NOT associated with that structure?. So, my answer is NO, it could NOT be used – JMO – JDA

      • JDA – good answer:-) I don’t care that it’s based on nothing. Lol, sometimes you just have to roll without all of the answers.
        It wont be my first rodeo without taking home the winner’s belt buckle.

      • JDA – regarding “associated” the treasure chest and its items have nothing to do with the ancient ruin. (No formal association between 2 different entities.)

      • BY that standards, JDA, seeing the clues, the poem are strictly associated with the treasure chest [there are no other reason for them except; as clues for the challenge]… then none of the clues can be of any “structure” / “man-made”; both terms used by fenn when talking about the chest.
        IF we take it a step further with, the fair play comment; WWsH is not a dam, and a beaver dam is just that, a dam … then a “structure” *seems* to relate to anything built, that is not naturally formed, by the elements or activities of the planet.
        Example; a cone shape structure built by heat, pressure and water, escaping the earth to layer the mineral escaping, creates a cone… would seem to be a natural structure, to me. But yet, a beaver dam is built. And has fenn said; that’s a dam too.
        http://s3.amazonaws.com/sfdc_podcasts/the_richard_eeds_show_forrest_fenn_091415.mp3

  42. I think that the treasure is not in a man made structure – but to me there are some clues that are- one is where no paddle- heavy loads- a body of water and a creek -to me they are man made

    • I get what you’re saying…. but that doesn’t mean the chest has to be there, does it?

      I mean by Bubba’s own words…it’s not.

    • frank;

      I don ‘t want you to give away your solve, but what you say makes no sense.
      you say that some of your clues are structures. You then list a few.
      1) how can a “no paddle” up your creek be a structure? If it is a dam blocking a creek so that you can not use a paddle, you are breaking one of Forrests rules.
      2) I can see where power lines COULD be interpreted as “Heavy Loads”
      3) “A body of water.” A “body of water” can not be a structure. If this body of water is formed by a dam – here we go again.

      Just askin’ JDA

  43. JDA – to me that is what stanza 3 is telling me-that’s how I understand it- it makes sense to me – there is no paddle – it has a different meaning- no paddle is a direction it has nothing to do with a paddle – and as far as heavy loads to me doesn’t mean power lines – maybe a body of water is not a structure but its man made- its like – take it in the canyon down – to me it says start at the bottom of the canyon – where the creek ends and wwwh is — frank

  44. The home of Brown is in close proximity to the treasure. As in the treasure actually is ” put in below the home of Brown”. No, paddle? No nonsense. Straight forward. Blaze, could be a million things but when the clues are aligned it stands out. The canyon is a canyon. And where warm waters halt is obvious to many. Now the kicker. The home of brown is a painting/ carving in a rock in one of the states. Visible on Google earth, about a metre wide, and with stunning views. All information adds up and all the cheat sheet confirms my solve. I hate living in New Zealand haha.

  45. I’ve read on multiple sites where people are quoting Forrest as saying “Only a fly fisherman might stumble across where he hid the treasure.” Does anyone know if this quote was ever spoken?

    • James;

      I have never run across it, nor can I find it on “Tarryscant.com” nor is it in “Chasing Words.” Maybe Zap can locate it, if it was ever uttered by Forrest. JDA

      • Thanks JDA. I haven’t been able to find it either, but figured someone here might know.

        • Never heard of that quote, and I think we would have all heard of it if it was a real quote. This would be a massive clue.

          • Something Forrest did say was
            “It’s not what they say on the blogs
            that may be significant, it’s what
            they whisper” Any thoughts on
            what constitutes a whisper on a
            written format?

          • RFish-
            Sure. I believe he was saying that it’s not what folks openly share on the blogs, forums and vlogs that are the most significant ideas that may lead to the unpuzzling of the poem…it’s what they share with their closest friends and share with Forrest…their “protected” ideas that are the most significant.

      • Perhaps fly fishermen see things a little differently? Maybe their view of their surroundings gives them an advantage? Or maybe their purpose for being is what brings them to where they are and that somehow aligns/converges with the location of the treasure.

        I know fly fishers who take as much joy and pleasure from making and inventing flies to fish with than fishing itself. I know others who say that simply feeling the rush of the water against their body and being in the same element as the fish makes them more a part of the experience—-connected to the fish they are trying to catch. There is also a skill and art to that type of fishing.

        So there is that to consider.

        The other option is that it is near or in a stream and anyone with waders can simply stumble upon the chest.

        IMO

        Opto

      • While reading that article I noted that there was no reference link to Forrest actually making that statement. The article struck me like a fish story. in my mind, it is an opinion of the writer. I will say this much, I found it thought-provoking. I can not help wondering what Forrest might say after reading that embodiment of speculation.

        Hi Dal, safe journey, may your travels be fruitful.

        HDD

        • HDD – The words “my opinion” appear directly after the rest of the author’s title to his article…

          Ants and elephants, I tell ya!

          🙂

          • anybody thinking Forrest would say that a family fly fishing would stumble on the chest, is not thinking too clearly about what Forrest would say as a clue to anyone, let alone searchers. he might say he “hopes” a family fly fishing could stumble on it, or he “hopes” a family in a pickup truck might find it… one should not read into that anything at all.

            one time Forrest said about a searcher who was a writer from the UK that kept writing ff about his great solve, Forrest then said about this guy, that he had a lot of it (the chase or the poem) figured out… maybe….

            Forrest’s “style” imo is to mislead in this way, somebody being in his face about a solution will get a facetious answer… like the throwing a bicycle in water high.

            believing those type of replies are going to get one down a very deep rabbit hole.

            one has to know exactly the context of all these ATFs..

            I know of three or four quotes from ff that there is no question that they are facetious, yet people are using them as a “clue” in their search.

            I think several people actually use the 300 miles west of Toledo quote still… I guess it takes all types…

          • Yeah I agree. It’s not necessarily that quote that solidified my solve for me, as I did it without using that quote. It just hints at it.

            I simply used the poem, geography, and some clues in the book I took as possible hints.

          • Perhaps I’ve muddled the waters.
            The post was in regards to perspective.
            I think there are plenty of hints that perspective is an important element in the chase.
            Option 2 was sawcasm.
            Attempted anyway.

            Opto

      • Zaphod,

        The link to that post describes my new solve/place exactly!

        The whole layout of that makes sense!

    • I don’t have the quote James, but if it were true, it fits my solve exactly. And, no, my solve has nothing to do with fishing. My solve involves comprehensive understanding of geography, which we have been told might help.

      Regarding the quote RFISH mentioned about what is whispered on the blogs; I believe this is a reference to what the geography whispers.

      When FF read that book by JD Salinger and told us that it sounded like his story, with different names and places, it was a hint (IMO) that FF’s story is the same as a place in the RMs north of Sante Fe. I have found that place (IMO). The poem led me here. But, as FF has suggested a number of times, the poem is difficult to solve even if you know what it says. Reading the geography is not exactly easy. So, understanding what he has said in the poem, and marrying it to the map isn’t that simple. The first couple of clues were simple, but then finding the exact spot in this land formation is trickier. You have to understand the story of the way this geography was formed and it’s story. That is what we are looking for IMO.

    • James, I have not heard this from Forrest. If it were true, I don’t think he would just come out and say it. psst, but it may be in his whispers. g

  46. Kathy, Ezmerelda and I are heading to Santa Fe today for a visit with Forrest. Will be taking our time traveling in that direction and stopping to smell the flowers along the way.

    For the next few days I will probably be slower in managing the blog because I will be on the road.

      • Fingers crossed he drops a new clue so we can all book up our next month. Dedicating it to research, research, and more research.

    • Hope you and Kathy have a great time, Dal. Safe travels. Be sure to tell Ezmerelda you’re not interested in venison or any other four-legged creature that likes to play, “Red Rover”. 🙂

    • Dal—

      Have a safe trip. Stay within the speed limit. I just got back from a BOTG and I got two speeding tickets (Utah and Idaho) in little speed traps. Say “hi” to Forrest for all of us!

      –Sparrow

      • Sparrow,
        “speed traps” Ha! Don’t ya just hate it when you see a sign that says “speed zone ahead” and then get a ticket because you followed the instructions?

        • Seeker—-
          No kidding—-in Utah speed limit was 80 MPH——then I hit one small area of cones where they posted 55 MPH right before it—-the trooper was sitting right there and put his lights on BEFORE I passed HIM. About 100 yds later it said 80 MPH again. Unbelievable. It’s almost like an animal trap (lol).

      • Sparrow – I got in good with the Idaho Sheriff’s Department when I helped them catch 2 huge dogs running down the center stripes in Driggs. Those pups looked like 2 lions ! Caucasian Shepherds… have a safe trip , Dal!

    • Have a great journey. Wouldn’t that be a hoot to have a certain little piece of jewelry riding along!

    • Wait!… What?
      You, you, you, can’t stop and smell the flowers!! There’s a chest with gold and trinkets that be needin findin. It needs findin now!
      Geeezzz… sounds like you have a life that’s more important than just the chase.

        • Maybe he is going to stop and smell the flowers because he found it. He is going to meet forest and return the bracelet.

          Maybeeeee?

          • LOL, James,
            So, what you’re really saying is, Dal has holding out on us? lol.

            In all seriousness. I kinda feel envious that Dal has the opportunity / opportunities to wander the RM’s and other places, and toss in a visit with Forrest.

          • Cynthia is who you have to watch out for…she’s headed up to MT/WY for searching and I think she figured something important out…

          • Dal ~’Seeker- I’d tell you if I found the darn thing…there would be no mystery from me ‘

            Can I be the first to have a sneak peek?
            The only mystery I’d like to see kept is where it was found… that’s just a personal preference, and the only reason I’m looking.

          • In regards to Cynthia, I concur, Dal. Her last post on her blog sure seemed like she was very excited about something and couldn’t wait to head back up to WY/MT.

        • Hi JDA
          Are you going to be around west Yellowstone
          last week in September ,if you are I would like
          to meet you there.Clint

    • Safe Travels Dal and Kathy! Did you get some Deer Whistles for Ezzy? Stop by and say hi if you happen to wonder up this way- Tell Forrest Hello!

      • Spallies-
        Not yet but it’s on my list…mean time I am NOT driving after 6pm..
        Love to stop by if we are nearby I’ll let you know…plans are to head south though…

      • I had never known about “Deer Whistles” until very recently, so I did a
        little research about them. It seems that there is quite a difference of
        opinion(s) about whether the things work at all. I wouldn’t rely on one.

        Safe travels, Dal. If you’ve found the TC, you’ve earned it.

        As always, IMO.

      • I think so…I can only catch up to the blog when I am in a wifi location…some folks will have to wait much longer before their comments are posted..

        • Hey Dal
          Have a safe trip. Taking your time and smelling the flowers sounds like a good idea.
          As hard as I try I can’t help but open it up on those long straight stretches when no one is around.
          Or finding someone that is going a little faster than you and letting them take the lead.
          Kind of like Bandit running blocker for Cledus. Watch out for the oopsy daisies.
          I was just wondering what you listen to when you’re on the road.

    • So, the only one not retired at the rendezvous point is Ezy?
      Now it is time to take your time and smell all the flowers.
      Drive safe, enjoy the trip and take the long way back home through West Yellowstone.

  47. I received the following from Margie Goldsmith this morning concerning the errors in her article in Wine, Dine and Travel:

    Any errors in my latest article on Forrest are publisher errors or my errors and I am trying to fix them. These days very few magazines have fact checkers and we have to check facts ourselves. I am very sick and missed many errors when the proof came back, Sorry. There are NO hints or new clues from Forrest.

    Thnks,
    Margie

  48. Does anyone remember a photo that I think was posted on Dal’s site at one time; showing a sink full of dishes that were piled up? Does that ring a bell for anyone? I’d like to find that photo. Thanks in advance if you know where it is.

      • Thanks Zaphod, but that is not what I’m looking for. Still; I appreciate your effort. I’m thinking of a photograph of a pile of dishes in the sink. There were some plates and bowls and possibly a teacup? Does this sound familiar with anyone? I thought it was a scrapbook, but I’m just not seeing it.

      • That’s it Veronica! Thanks. Looks like Zaphod had the right story to go with it, but the photo of the dishes didn’t make it into the book, just the story did. Now that I’ve seen the photo, it reminds me that I need to go clean the kitchen. But, I don’t feel like it. So, I’m gonna try not to think about it.

  49. I need some help figuring out what type of conifer tree this is. I Googled it and come up with a few possibles. The reason I want to know is because it appears to be old and I know some trees can live to 1000 years or more although I don’t think this one is. I’m beginning to think the blaze may be a marking or lightning strike on a very old tree that would last hundreds or over a thousand years.
    About 3/4 way through this video you will the tree that stands out from all the others on this hillside.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCiuE1OpwZA&feature=youtu.be

    I know about “Treasures Galore” illustration (pg 200) where he his sitting down by a tree and soaking up the view and on other occasions Fenn has mentioned sitting next to a tree. On Cynthia’s blog where a translator Michael said “He (Forrest) begins to imagine dying under a pine tree, looking out over a pine forest into a sunset… a chest full of gold and jewels buried by his side…”
    http://www.chasingfennstreasure.com/blog/fenn-s-treasure-chest-in-its-natural-habitat

    You cannot add 3 or more links to a comment here so I will add more when I have time and thanks to you tree gurus that know what type of tree this is and keep in mind that it’s base is about 6 ft in diameter oval so I’m thinking it is very old and older than anyone reading this by far.

    If only the tree knew….

      • Thanks pd,
        That was one of the probables.
        This is the tree that was about 30 ft from the cairn I dug up about a foot and half down before it didn’t feel right.

        The lightning scar on this tree has been bugging me and am thinking it may be a acceptable blaze if the tree can stand the test of time.
        It would not be feasible to remove. It stands out. It doesn’t point in any one direction. It’s not man-made.

        Just looking for some feedback, negative or positive because I forget a lot of things fenn said.

        When my time comes, I may find myself next to this tree to say goodbye and let my shell go back to the dirt. Don’t expect a treasure though.

        • Hello Jake. You give good reasons of how it could be considered a blaze for it stands after being struck by lightning. There’s a scrapbook where Mr. Fenn talks about advice of the willow tree and grave, as well as, jumping up to avoid the lightning (paraphrased). Yet, as 42 pointed out, I believe the tree wouldn’t survive a forest fire, although it was one of the things that could affect the treasure, along with earthquakes, floods, etc. if I remember correctly.

          • Yes I know a forest fire may devour this tree but considering it is alone and not in a thick of trees where the flames and temperature would be higher as opposed to just tall grass surrounding it would make it safer to higher burning temps.

            What if the blaze has a shorter life span than what some are thinking? I looked up the Whitebark and saw there is one in Idaho over 1000 years and that’s almost as old as JDA.

            The Whitebark fits the bill and not being surrounded by other large quantities of high combustables, I think it could be a case for the blaze. If a forest fire did go through this area which I have seen signs of old and very old burnt trees and this did survive at least one lightning strike then I have to consider and alter my way of thinking about what the blaze could be to add a old tree with a lightning strike but no trees with a carved F.

          • Hello Jake. Again, you give good reasons. Did Mr. Fenn make a comment about 100-1000+ years about finding the treasure? The tree could fit the bill, yet to me, I think there’s something more permanent than that. Once more, to defeat my suggestion, parts of nature could affect it. If I were in your situation, I myself would try to prove or disprove the tree to give myself peace of mind.

        • Lisa,

          I would like to speak with you regarding Bakers Hole. I might have some input for that area.

          JCollier1828 at gmail dot com if you would like to field an idea.

          • James Collier – It is well known here at HOD that I openly share my thoughts and experiences about The Chase with everyone reading. I am not a blog whisperer. And I was carrying a ‘Grant’ in my wallet two weeks ago at Baker’S Hole, in honor of being there on that Western YNP border:

            “It isn’t what they say about you, it’s what they whisper.” –
            Errol Flynn

            “Any man who dies with more than $10000 to his name is a failure.” – Errol Flynn

            Methinks Forrest likens himself to Errol Flynn. If you would like to also share your ideas here with me and everyone else, James, please do. I hope that something I write might help the eventual finder. And I hope the Smithsonian buys the bronze chest to put on display.

      • Jake, my personal opinion is that a tree might be engulfed in a forest fire; and therefore doesn’t make an ideal place for a blaze that could last 1000 years.

        Because Forrest’s son-in-law’s beautiful New Mexico ranch was torched and lost in a lightening fire, I don’t believe ff would pick a single tree – unless it was growing out of sheer rock giving it more protection,

        All opinion

        • Jake – I spy a Ponder•O•S•A pine, which I know has a very old rectangular ‘continue straight’ blaze carved on it. And a fly fisherman standing in front of the chin of my Smil•e face shoreline. I still believe Forrest had something to do with creating that interpretive sign at Baker’S Hole.

          What do you think, Dal, after seeing it up close?

          • Ya, definitely a pine with small ripe cones in August when the pic was taken. 6 ft wide so it could be over 500 years old, I will have to look it up. There must be a way to tell how old it is by the thickness of the trunk.

    • Jake, someone may know with a glance which type of conifer. I don’t know the tree but will try to help.
      Which side of the continental divide? Which state? Some conifers only grow West of the C.D.

      • Up Taylor Fork in the Eldridge area.
        I don’t think the continental divide discriminates which pine trees grow on either side 42. I think you have something screwed up there lol. Thanks for the help anyway.

        • Jake, I’m familiar with the Quarter Circle 9 Ranch country. My family camped along Taylor’s fork in the past. Beautiful country. By the way some trees in Montana are not found east of the divide..Tamaracks are west of CD as far as I know.

          • It’s definitely not a Tamarack tree seeing I’m in SW Montana. I think pd got it pegged. 9 Quarter Circle Ranch area is great.

        • Jake…

          “RANGE
          In Montana, tamaracks grow in the mountains and valleys of the state’s northwestern corner, from the western boundary to the Continental Divide in Glacier National Park and then roughly south into the Bitterroot Range. “

        • Um, Well, err, Ya might be wrong there, Jake.
          The leeside [ normally referring to the east side of the RM’s ] has different qualities than the western side…. that alone allows certain vegetation to grow on one side and not the other.
          Not only does the RM’s provide a watershed for the west and east sides of the range… the height and length of the range controls weather as well… dry vs. moist for example.
          42 could be correct about certain vegetation for either side of the range.

          • Well, that info doesn’t help much seeing I gave out the location where it’s at and we know it’s East of the CD in SW Montana Taylor Fork area.

            The pic I posted along with the video does tend to look like a Whitebark Pine, the only reason I didn’t think it was because the bark is sorta speckled gray but does have some white. Pine cones are very small and it appears to have 5 needles bundled so now I know this tree is kinda rare and can live over 1000 years and the lightning strike going from top to ground could be a possible blaze that could last 1000 years. I’m just looking for an excuse to go back there and I know this should have been posted on the blaze page. Oh well.

        • Jake, If your looking in the Taylor Fork, there are some great reasons to search there…in addition to its natural beauty:
          -Airstrip
          -Eldridge Cabin managed by forest service is an historical Post Office (TTOTC postage stamps)
          -Lightening creek drainage basin
          -there’s and old flume along the creek (looking south towards Yellowstone, on left side of valley
          -Marble mtn
          -Burnt mtn
          -natural pass thru to Madison River used by native Americans of old.
          – marvelous gazes in every direction.

          • Been looking in that area for a few years. Don’t forget about Lincoln Mtn and the old spill dam.

            The poem took me there from his bathing spot in YNP.
            You can paddle down the Gallatin but ill advised on Taylor.
            Someone here did some searching around Lightning Creek and said there was an old paddle wheel up there but I never went up far enough to find it.

            You will find lots of coincidences with SB107 about this “location” after the poem brings you there.

          • Jake,

            The photo that was taken is the Whitebark Pine. Sometimes they get gnarly at the base with a main trunk. At least that is what I’ve known them around Red Lodge, MT.

          • Jake, I’ve seen the paddle wheel, (I mistakenly called it a flume) Looked at getting to the Paddle wheel from the road – it would be difficult to arrive at without waders to pass through beaver and moose country. It may be on private property. Check Montana Cadastral for property ownership. I think the same family who’ve owned Circle 9 own most of that property along with MT/National forest property until you get to the top of lightening creek. Once you pass the FS campground, There is an old ranch at the mouth of lightening creek. It’s a Jeep road to get there in the summer months.

            In the 60’s we camped there while my dad fly fished. I love the red rock cliffs as you first enter Taylor Fork, and the campground there.

          • Certainly looks that way now R2B,
            I’m glad some of you know about trees in the Rockies and West. I’m from New England, FL and the East Coast so I see some knurly looking tree and you just can’t google a pic. Some jobs are just for people and I hope it stays that way. Too many robots already.

          • 42, You can the flume scar from GE on the side of the hill next to Taylor Creek across from the Eldridge Post Office Cabin. There was a mill a little further East.

            The dam remnants are here:
            45.054466, -111.366025

            I have saved the cadastral link a couple years ago, comes in handy to stay away from private property.
            The paddle may have been on Trappers Cabin property.

  50. Side note Jake. The oldest trees in the world may be the Bristlecone Pine trees in the Sierra Nevada. They have been around (some of them) for 4000 years. Try googling it. Fun read.

    • Thanks, I’m not looking for the treasure in the Sierra. I don’t know why you mostly don’t add anything chase related said the queen lol.

      • That’s why I said “side note”. Of course California is not in the Chase. I just thought you might be interested in reading about the worlds oldest trees.

        Just takes a moment to google. No big deal though. Good luck with your search.

  51. Today’s food for thought:

    I believe it was Thomas Edison that said: Origin of Genius is 1 Percent Inspiration and 99 Percent Perspiration.
    Little did I realize that a recent trip to Idaho would provide new avenues to pursue. While rolling along with my GF at the wheel I can ” rubberneck ” and take in various sights. Along the route, I got some nice pictures of a good candidate of what the canyon down may look like.
    Once in Boise, I got another inspiration regarding the double omega at the end of TToTC.
    Along the way, I was inspired by three things that will be researched shortly.

    Best wishes to all.

    HDD

    • HDD, I hope you know that Idaho is out of the search area, not that it won’t give you inspiration as where to look in the four states that FF said it is in. (NM CO WY MT)

      • Good morning Not Obsessed,

        Inspiration comes from allowing one’s mind to be imaginative.
        Yes, I am very well aware that the search area encompasses four states.
        What I was trying to provide is a means of looking at things no matter where one may find themselves. Perhaps I may attempt writing a short post concerning my trip, and how it inspired me.

        HDD

  52. I’ve never seen a discussion about the little stick figure in OUAW title page. It shows up throughout the book the book. I’m assuming the belt is significant to geography; perhaps a mountain belt? Does anyone want to talk about the belt?

    Also; if you look at the Preface of OUAW, you will notice the little figure dancing on top of a stack of books. Obviously, these books were written by FF. Why are their two copies of TTOTC? Anybody have ideas?

    • flutter-
      There have been many discussions about Forrest’s stick figure(s).
      They are easy to find if you use the search mechanism…

      We even had a sick figure contest…based on his drawings…

      Forrest’s Belt buckle has also been the topic of conversation. In fact there is even a video with Forrest explaining why he wears it constantly and who made it for him. Look in the Spring 2016 videos on this blog:
      https://dalneitzel.com/video/spring/

  53. Jake, Taylor Fork is an important conservation area where the Trust for Public Land TPL has worked with private land holders to form a larger connected area of conservation. It’s an important wintering area for elk. Grizzly bears (the naughty ones from Yellowstone) are sometimes relocated to the area. Being the environmentalist that Forrest stated he is in his memoir TTOTC, it wouldn’t surprise me if he donated property in that a area to TPL. All my opinion – I researched transfer of private property to TPL but records are often private, unless a large ranch owner donates a big chunk. The word “chet” shows up several times in the poem (when spaces are eliminated) one definition of chet is game preserve.

    I know the treasure chest is out there somewhere. Additionally, Its my opinion that ff may have assisted with placing land into conservation easements so that many folks can enjoy or access the rivers for fishing. Three Dollar Bridge area on the Madison River is a great example of land owners & fishermen working together to preserve river access for all, and not just the very wealthy who can afford to own river front parcels.

        • Good question Ethical dilemma,
          I doubt it. FF said he tried to think of everything. If the treasure chest sits on public land no dilemma. If TC sits on a “chet”or private game preserve – the dilemma is getting permission from ff as owner to search on his property. I seriously doubt he would respond to such a request, because it would give confirmation.
          Just my thoughts offered as opinion.

          What do you think? If ff did Place the TC on his own private property and invites all to search…is it trespassing to search on ff’s property? I’m not referring to his Santa Fe home, but to a possible piece of land.

    • 42 – My fly fishing librarian friend and I headed up that dirt road beyond Three Mile Bridge on a hot day to explore Cliff and Wade Lakes. We watched young folk swimming across Cliff Lake from the isolated campground to jump from a rope swing into the turquoise water on the opposite shore. But then one of their floating tubes got away, and they had to chase it for a tired girl swimmer. The boys swam and pushed the girls in the tubes back to camp. As it should be.

      On our way back, my friend fished just upstream and below Three Mile Bridge. While I walked the shore trail, dodging cow pies and their makers with every step, looking for shade. We didn’t stay long.

      The Madison stretch on either side of the old bridge leading into the West Fork Campground was much better. The owner of the Old Kirby Place there let us relax under his shady structure with the rocking chairs on his property shoreline. You can rent the historic house and all the cabin buildings on the property for a group stay. Talk about idyllic for a group of fly fishernen! We saw a group of three get out of their drift boat on the opposite shore, where the West Fork meets the main Madison River. The owner said that is another great place to wade fish for large trout.

      • Jake, thanks. I have the same info and have cadastral researched & physically searched from Taylor’s Fork, Big Sky, Gallatin Canyon, Spanish Blaze Mountain trail, Creek, Pioneer falls. Madison River, Hebgen Lake…

        I finally gave in to the idea that ff likely assisted with and donated to Preserving lands for the public in areas he loved. He was raised in a hard-working middle-class family that could never have afforded prime lakeside or riverside properties – until he hit the big time wheeling and dealing in the art world.
        I perceive that he would look out for the weekend fisherman from Montana who wanted access to those areas. I am a fifth generation Montanan and have watched many of the beautiful areas of Montana we fished, hiked, my dad hunted, be purchased by the rich from Hollywood and the business world..
        Im thankful TPC Montana has worked with willing land owners to allow public acces again.

        • 42, you have a good searching resume and I think you are definitely in the right overall area although Spanish Blaze Mountain trail and Pioneer Falls might be a little too far north.

          I’m sure Fenn gave some donations to Wyoming and Montana to protect and conserve certain areas. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if he threw in some cash to protect the Taylor Fork and Gallatin area.

        • 42 – Craig Matthews and the Madison River Foundation have done great work for fish habitats also. The Sun Ranch was owned by Hollywood actor, Steven Seagal, until 1998, when Silicon Valley software guy, Roger Lang, purchased it. He began to create a new model for conservation there, including a fish hatchery:

          https://www.madisonriverfoundation.org/projecttimeline

          I love that perfectly square bench land formation on that ranch, where remnants of a medicine wheel still exist. I read that tribal members could stand there and speak in a low voice, with others at a distance across the Madison being able to hear everything. Stanford University did a study there. I can imagine those former inhabitants fishing successfully in that area, as Forrest did in that pic Dal posted of Forrest for his 89th birthday.

  54. I like looking up words in FF’s books. Today I looked up Swivet. p 61 of TTOTC. Donnie was in a serious swivet and would not talk to Forrest. Guess what! It means “flutter”, as in Flutterby. How about that! Just thought I would share.

    • Dal,
      Enjoy your own trip and stop worrying about Cynthia. If you’re just having withdrawal symptoms from not being able to go BOTG on this trip, I’ll give you a spot or two to check out down south.

        • Dal–

          I stayed in Cedar City UT just a couple of nights ago. Beautiful little towns. Hope you enjoy the rest of your trip!!

        • Dal,
          Hope you enjoy your trip! Give Forrest our best and tell him that he is missed on the blogs!

          TimM

          • If you think that Forrest is no longer blogging, think again.

            If you underestimate him, you’ll never find his trove. IMO.

          • Tall Andrew,
            I’m taking Forrest at his word… he said that he was taking a step back from the chase and as far as I know, he’s done that. I don’t know whether he still reads the blogs but I’ve not seen him post anything recently. As for the conspiracy theorists saying that he is communicating incognito, I don’t buy into that. What purpose would it serve??

            Finally, I believe I have as good a chance to find his trove as anyone else.

            All IMO, of course. Happy hunting.

            TimM

  55. Beware Diggin Gypsys is Back

    She sent me this today:

    To many people was hoaning in on our area , Y’all sure know how to make a girl mad enough to get back out there . Happy trails y’all and stay on your side of the mnt I’m setting out traps hehe

  56. Hey, I’m looking for ideas from anyone willing to offer their opinions on the following:

    This idea has been discussed previously…
    “…and Listen good” could be: list ten, go odd.
    For the sake of argument, please assume ff did mean “list 10 and go odd”.
    The list would be 1-3-5-7-9
    in the context of the poem’s text, how would you use the numbers?

    How is the person reading the poem supposed to utilize those numbers?
    Use numbers in solving the poem somehow? Then how?
    Or would numbers be used after you have found the treasure chest?

    • If you use any math or numbers to solve the poem, it’ll slow you down and may
      even prevent you from correctly solving it. All part of my opinion.

      • I agree with the Tall One. Years ago, I was focused on decoding the poem, but it will just make you dizzy in my opinion. There are too many different variables that you can make fit with numbers. The poem is vague, but should come into sharper perspective as you get to the end-like walking into a smoke filled room . Stay your course , figure out wwwh and move forward.

    • 42,

      There are numbers that are part of the poem that are coincidental for the area Forrest hid the chest (not the ones you listed). These numbers are not there to help in solving any poem clues, but if you happen to fined them after you get most of the clues solved they stick out in this area imo and you say “wow” what a coincidence, or were they done to the poem to help confirm indulgence location area by chance??
      (Nothing to do with longitude or latitude numbers)

      Maybe that’s food for thought.

      Good luck,
      Bur

    • You are forgetting “so hear me all and”. Plus, the “t” in ten you are using for list. Making it no ten. Can’t assume that is what f meant when you add a “t”.
      I wouldn’t use those numbers because I’m not told by the poem to use those numbers. Plus, I would not leave out something in the whole line. I would have to use the whole line, that is why I say:
      Some ALL and L is ten go od. (The sum of A+L+L+L is ten go odd).
      Now, if you are talking one word in the poem to find values, that is different. Like: gaze, blaze, etc…
      From what I see, the first pass thru the poem gives line solves. What stands out is that the poem hints towards letter values. After solving the values, the second pass thru the poem yields a little more, and you are able to find coordinates, along with some other things. With coordinates, a map can be used to find where those coordinates are. Finding the most direct route there, your path, comes next, with the start spot wwwh. Then, the third pass thru the poem can be used at face value as you walk your path to your coordinates. At coordinates, use the 9th clue to find the chest. Some clues you will already know, some not so much, but will be obvious on your path.
      The numbers are also used to explain hints, and there are hints that confirm the numbers.
      As far as 1,3,5,7,9, I don’t see any reason to use those out of the blue. Especially since he spelled listen with one “t”. Makes for a wrong assumption right out of the gate…

  57. 42,

    IMHO, “So hear me all and listen good,” means pay close attention for a hint in close proximity to this comment. At least that is what I have found. No need to complicate things any further than that.

    • To me, at face value, it says to not only listen to the words he is saying, but to take it even further. Listen to the letters of the words also. And the words within words. That’s how you find the instructions of the poem. Instruction words, instructions within words, instruction letters.

  58. I liked it at one time for a hint to the 10 commandments. There are 9 commands in the poem, guess we are missing one!

  59. This is how my dog hears the poem:

    As I buried my bone in there
    And with my Chew toy bold
    I can keep my secret where
    And hint of pig ears new and old

    Begin it at a fire hydrant (where warm waters halt)
    and chase the postman down the street
    Not far but you’ll have to trot
    Relieve yourself at the home of Brown

    From there it’s no place for a cat
    Their end is near, they moan and cry
    There’ll be no catnip up this street
    Just heavy barks and bloodied hide.

    If you’ve been wise and fed me right
    Look quickly down, I’ll wag my tail
    But day old food brings angry growls
    Just take my bowl and fill it well

    So hear me bark and walk me good
    For your effort I will dig no holes
    If you behave and treat me good
    I’ll be a good dog, understood?

    • Every search deserves the company of a dog. If a solution involves a place where dogs are prohibited or required to be on a leash, they are places I will never search.

      • Ever see the Twilight Zone episode where the old gentleman is told he can’t take his dog into heaven? It turns out the place was hell. A good dog is a very good thing!!

        • Reminds me of an old country song.

          Jake, he was a good dog. My best friend, right through it all. If I die before I wake…feed Jake.

        • Good dogs are indeed very good things, Sparrow.

          Some of the bad ones are still better than many of our species I’ve had to deal with.

    • Sparrow,
      I don’t know what you do for a living, but hope you are a writer. You are very funny and have a great way with words.

      • Flutterby—-

        I wish I was a writer—it is really what I love to do. Thanks for the vote of confidence—-appreciated!

    • Hahaha Sparrow, I Love it! …thanks for making this fun! Maybe we should be looking for barking dogs. I still can’t figure out what all of that is about

    • You’ll notice I left out stanza five “So why is it that I should go?” The reason being that dogs always know why they should go. That’s why you need to follow after them with the plastic bags. lol

    • Good job, Sparrow! I like your poem. As for the reasoning of the missing poem verse, you’re funny.

  60. THANKS YA’LL for your ideas about “and listen good.”

    I howled at your poem Sparrow. I promise not to call you “no no bad dog.”

    • The real/intended “interpretation” of “hear me all and listen good” hasn’t been
      mentioned on this thread. It’s too big a hint or clue for me to share at this time. Good luck, y’all. As always, IMO.

    • I enjoyed your Clever comment Michael Hendrickson, and the interesting paleo find in France.
      Forrest’s interest in paleo mammoths has me on a rabbit trail wondering if one of his secrets is a T-Rex find during his digging days. IMO ff’s Poem holds several secrets.

  61. Hey Dal, we hope you’re enjoying your visit with Forrest.

    See if you can twist his arm to post a new story or two… to keep us out of trouble… here…while you’re out searching.

    Without Forrest’s input, we have no place to put in:-)

    • I believe it can Jenny. But first it can only be found when 2 things are present, 1 you know where home of brown is, and two confirmed by finding the TC. only then can you confirm with 100% surety any of the clues.

    • The question that has not been asked is: why is warm waters halt is so important?
      We have been told; Without this clue we don’t have anything, without it all we’ll have is a nice vacation, if you don’t have warm waters halt nailed down stay home.
      Locating the first clue reference as its deciphered * location * has been done… However, did searchers understand why they needed to be there?

      • Seeker,
        That question has been asked and answered. In the Moby Dicken’s interview when asked why wwwh is so important, he responded “I didn’t say wwwh was so important.”

        • I’ll rephrase the question, why is it we need it all, or we “don’t have anything”?
          The question is not about what or where it is… It’s about “why” we need it.

          • Seeker;

            For me this is the “Why” IF I am standing at the correct WWsH location, from this one spot, I can see ALL of the remaining clues. I can see down a canyon, I can see a hoB. I can see a “Meek place and an END place.
            I can see a creek, a HL location and a WH, and I can see a blaze, and know WHY I need to “Look quickly down.”

            *** or at least I THINK that I will be able to see all of the above once at that spot. .. and that is WHY it is so important – at least in my solve 🙂 JDA

          • seeker wwwh and hob is all you need after you find those two clues the rest of the clues will start falling in to place- the key is wwwh-if you miss that turn at wwwh to hob you might as well go home – I think that no we don’t need all the clues , sorry for butting in —–frank

        • ManOwar;

          I just read the entire Moby Dickens interview and nowhere did Forrest say what you said he said.

          Forrest DID say the following about “Too far to walk” – NOT WWWsH:

          Male: Tell those in the audience who are not searching why the phrase TOO FAR TO WALK is so important? (My caps for emphasis – jda)

          Forrest: I didn’t say it was important. That part of my preface I think is a metaphor for my entire life. Looking back, I’ve done some things that I’m not going to brag about, but I’m also not done some things that I wished I had. As a matter of fact in ‘The Thrill of the Chase’ I talk about writing my obituary. My, what do you call it?

          Just thought you should know – JDA

      • Seeker;

        You ask,” why is warm waters halt so important?” For me it is simple.

        Let’s say that I want to go from Pocatello, Idaho to Santa Fe, NM.

        I call up a travel bureau and say that I need the most scenic route to Santa Fe, NM.

        The most logical question is – “Starting from where , sir?” Without this question being answered, the travel agent could come up with ten thousand routes, starting from anywhere. One MUST know where one needs to start from, if they are to correctly figure out how to get to the end. It seems obvious.

        I have been in my general search area for about 45 months. I had one WWsH location that took me from the outer limits of my search area to what I will call the “heart” of my general search area. Once at the “Heart”, I KNEW I was in the right area. So, now that I am in what I feel is the correct”General Search Area” – what now?

        The only answer is – back to the poem. “Begin it where warm waters halt…etc.” We all know the poem by heart – It is burned into out brain.

        Six little words – “Begin it where warm waters halt, …”

        Begin = start
        it = Journey, trip, quest, search and many more possibilities
        where = a location, a place, a site, an area etc.
        warm = tepid, not cold, comfortable
        waters – PLURAL of water, h2O’s, liquids, moisture, etc.
        halt = come to a stop, cease movement, merge, converge etc.

        SO many possibilities. Hundreds, thousands, millions etc., but only ONE is correct. What in the poem or in TToTC can point the way to the ONE correct WWsH? I found a story in TToTC that I think describes both distance directions as well as a physical description. But this is just my idea, I could well be wrong.

        Waters – plural, more than one. The idea that there MAY be more than one form of water involved, but not in the sense of a stream merging with a river, or some such. And then, these two water “features” – whatever they are, “HALT” or stop, or cease moving???
        Probably somewhat near each other when they both “halt”.

        How many such places are out there? again, millions maybe.

        Boggles the mind doesn’t it? I can only hope I have, at last, found the correct one. Only time will tell – JDA

        • WWWH may not be a specific, tiny spot (such as a 10″ square on
          the ground). But still, without a pretty good idea of where this is,
          the other clue solutions won’t easily fall into place. As always, IMO.

      • Seeker: “However, did searchers understand why they needed to be there?”

        Perhaps we need to go there to recognize something in the geography for the later clues but more specifically the last clue, the blaze. Or maybe he wants us to go there for just the experience.

      • Seeker.
        The question. Did searchers understand the why they needed to be there. My thoughts are they did to the extent of finding the other clues in the location. However they may not understand the why until they are there. And then there are many other whys to answer.
        Some wise are not worth asking when you know there are no answers. The biggest question is if we need it all or we don’t have anything , How does anyone know they have it all. Those are very ambiguous statements you make, Why has a lo to do with when, where, and how.
        I’m pretty sure you can’t nail down WWWH
        Is. On second thought there is one way but I can’t answer that question. LoL.
        If I was a taker in the wacky tabaca I would say I’m stoned. So stoned I can’t hardly breath anymore. Maybe the load will lighten some day when lifted. Until then this is all I can do. Imo
        GH

      • Most ya’ll made my point. Jenny asked; …confirmed by the poem alone?

        Regardless of the poem or a map or the book or all the above… [because we know; the first clue and the second clue were “solved” “indicated” ” people figured the first couple of clues” etc.]… but did they understand ‘why’ they needed to be there?
        JDA’s travel agent is a good example of being able to skip over the ‘start’ IF he could start somewhere down the road where the ‘scenic’ drive begins, idea.
        That doesn’t make WWsH really necessary to the point; without it we “don’t have anything” IF we can skip it… or it’s just a simple starting line.

        Jake’s thoughts; ‘Perhaps we need to go there to recognize something in the geography for the later clues…’ Might explain the need for WWsH. But it doesn’t explain why or what that need is…Why do we need to recognize something? That “idea” alone say; we can’t find all the clues on a map… Or at the very least ‘know’ what we see on a map from that angle. Which has been my point in the observational method.

        Grasshopper stated; ‘ Some wise [ I assume this was meant as WHYs?] are not worth asking when you know there are no answers. The biggest question is if we need it all or we don’t have anything , How does anyone know they have it all. Those are very ambiguous statements you make,…’

        All whys are certainly worth asking, but you asked the same when you said; ‘The biggest question is if we need it all or we don’t have anything , How does anyone know they have it all.’

        Because if you can fill in those “why” questions you should have a certainty, for the reason, the first clue is a nailed down clue or stay home, idea.
        It also may answer “why” someone will say; “what took me so long?” It may answer what fenn might be referring to as the; “Important possibility” no one has seem to have indicated [at least at the time the comment was made].
        IF the poem is to lead anyone precisely anywhere, by clues that fenn invented, created, blueprinted, we need to ask why he tells us the first clue is a must or don’t go, you don’t have anything.
        IMO he would need to tell the reader “why” at some point in the poem so the reader can be precise and allow the poem to guide them “precisely” [exactly as fenn intended the clues to play-out.

        LOL but that doesn’t answer Jenny’s question about; confirmation “by the poem alone?” of the first clue.
        However, we do have fenn telling all; The path will not be direct for those who have no certainty of the location beforehand….
        He also stated;
        “You need to read the clues in my book and study the clues and get a good map, *and I would advise new searchers to look for the clues in my poem and try to marry them to a place on a map. It seems like the longer one thinks about the search the more they complicate the problem.f ” (Six Questions) MWs

        [Money Magazine Video – 06-18-2019] ” … “You need to read the clues in my book and study the clues and get a good map, and try to marry the map to a certain place, and research it. And then get in your pick up and go out and look for it.” And then get in your pick up and go out and look for it.”

        “try to *A place* on a map”… “try to marry the map to *a certain place*, and research it.” and “certainty of the location beforehand”…. Those seems to imply we need to know where ALL the clues are located, and study that place to find the clue’s references.

        I don’t think we can just look for WWsH.. we need to know the “location” to search and research, then figure out why folks who solve the first clue [ first two ] didn’t know they did. Is it because the “left the Poem”? Was their process of continuing was the wrong method? And WHY do we need to research a *certain place?*.. I mean if this nothing more than a staring point, what’s the big too-whooo about it !?! Just find the next and the next clues until we come to the blaze, right? How’s that working out?

        Jenny, IDK is we can locate the first clue with the poem “alone”… but it seems to me, we need to know ‘Why” fenn wanted it for the first point of the path?
        Otherwise; why can’t we look for hoB and go from there?
        Which brings up another question;

        Question posted 7/2/2014: MWs [questions with Forrest Fenn]
        Q~ “Do you think that someone who is sure about the location of the home of Brown could reverse-engineer where warm waters halt?” ~Ben Raylor
        A ~ “Thanks for the question Ben.
        If you are sure about the location of home of Brown why are you concerned about where warm waters halt? But to answer your question, sure you could and a few searchers might throw in some gas money for a percentage of the take. Good luck.f”

        ~ If you are sure about the location of home of Brown *why are you concerned about where warm waters halt?*………………….. try and answer that question, and attempt to keep it true to all the other ATFs stated above.

        The last question i’ll ask is; What map? What, or better yet, *where* do we discover the “right map”? and/or the right location to look for on GE?… a certain place we need to study…
        This is where I agree with Ken. finding the correct WWsH is by using a map. Only, Ken and I differ on why the map is used. I think it only shows ‘with certainty’ the first two clues references. The other physical clue’s references are seen correctly from ground level… and the need for a physical presence after the first few clues
        FEW; at least some but indeterminately small in number.
        SEVERAL; 1. some; an amount that is not exact but is fewer than many.
        SCANT; barely amounting to a specified number or quantity.

        Excerpt from MW’s Six Questions 2018
        Q) “How much knowledge do you think a normal East Coast Kid has to have to find your treasure? Or is Imagination enough. As an example, would an East Coast Kid have to become familiar with the western ways, languages, and other manners of the Rockies?”
        A) “It helps to know something about Rocky Mountain geography when making plans to search for my treasure. Rocking chair ideas can lead one to the first few clues, but a physical presence is needed to complete the solve. Google Earth cannot help with the last clue. f ”

        And I’m right back to “WHY” is the first clue seemingly so important?
        LOL.. that was along way to go just to bring thought to WWsH; have it “nailed down or stay home” and/or you “don’t have anything” .. regardless of how you find it. It has been found, right?

    • Thanks for putting that back out there Jenny. Being the first clue and the current state of affairs[chest still waiting patiently] it is probably the best topic for discussion. Without bias or thinking about my idea of the first clue I can say that I think the best approach is to use the tools Fenn has suggested over and over. TTOTC, GE and/or a good map. Why would anyone serious about finding the treasure just use the poem?

    • Hi Jenny,

      In your video, Phil asked if a person could find wwwh given “..meet me where warm waters halt, somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe..”. Essentially Phil messed with the poem, not just by omitting most of it, but also changing the words of that important wwwh line, leaving only “..where warm waters halt” unchanged.

      Forrest answered that there are many possible answers given the question posed. But we know that there is only one correct answer to the poem clue “Begin it where warm waters halt”.

      Forrest also pointed out that basically every word in the poem is important. The difference between the information in Phil’s question and Forrest’s poem are the words “Begin it”.

      We know Forrest does expect somebody to confidently find each clue in sequence after lots of analyzing and thinking. Somehow those words “Begin it” added to “where warm waters halt” make the difference for being able to find that clue (with confidence but not necessarily with certainty).

      How can a person use the clue “begin it where warm waters halt” to find a specific place on the map? There must be additional information embedded/hidden in the poem line, I think.

    • I will watch this video now. But personally, I do not believe it can. Maybe it is just me, but right now I am of the opinion that you must work the clues 1 – 9. If you don’t have indulgence in hand, you messed up. I don’t think you will ever have 100% confirmation. Not until it is found. But that is all just my opinion.

    • Jenny,

      You do a fine job of creating and presenting content in an interesting way! Thank you for your many contributions. To answer your question, in a word, (IMO) YES. To expound upon that, and confirmed ONLY BY THE POEM.

    • IMO, Jenny, WWWH can only be confirmed when the treasure is found. However, by combining the 1st 3 clues, one can come up with a working hypothesis. Then, if other places on the map start to appear in response to the clues, the seeker will become more confident. Finally, when they have solved the poem and have a blaze, they can narrow down the location. However, they may arrive at the location and realize it will not be easy to access the chest – a labyrinth of sorts may be involved.

  62. Weren’t worth it to Ol’ Hatchet Jack
    I, Hatchet Jack, being of sound mind and broke legs, do hereby leaveth my bear rifle to whatever finds it. It is a good rifle, and killt the bear that killt me. Anyway, I am dead. Yours truly, Hatchet Jack.

  63. hj,
    You noted the most important portion. Just the incorrect translation, IMHO. Much, much more creative “imagineering” by the Wordsmith to reach his desired results.

  64. One question that I would like to know the answer to, which I don’t ever think has ever been answered, is if the cancer were to have returned, and Forest would have carried out his plans, how long does he think it would have taken to discover his whereabouts? The reason I think that is important, it would likely rule out a lot of 1/4 mile from the parking area theories, and any place touristy in nature.

    • Yellow,
      Purely guessing, you would likely get one of those, “…how deep is a hole,” answers. Something like, “…why didn’t you just ask me, how long is a long time?” Never seen ff fooled by a cunning question, yet.

    • I think you ask a good question Yellowdog. If you realize that the same place he would have hidden his body is the same place he hid the treasure, then it appears he would want a place where his bones could rest in peace. As you said, not close to the parking area and not in close proximity to a man-made trail.

    • I think he said something like, when he thought of the chase he knew immediately where he would place the treasure. I believe after surviving it was still placed in the same spot. g

  65. IMO, everything is mental until you step out of your car
    and actually look. That’s the only effort you have to make.
    Forrest never says “do a bunch of physical stuff,
    then get in your car and drive to some particular spot”
    Your effort starts there, his gun doesn’t shoot straight,
    and the cold water is always on the right.

Comments are closed.