Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…

pinkPlease click on the comment balloon below to contribute to the discussion of  Forrest Fenn’s Treasure Hunt. Please note that many topics have their own pages. Please scroll through the blog to see all the discussion pages. There are also stories, scrapbooks, searcher’s reports general information, tips from Forrest, a rumors blog and even email responses from Forrest. So please look around and if you want to make a comment please use the most appropriate page.

Thanks…

 

dal…

127 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…

  1. There are lots of things that can be considered “warm waters”. Some may be a bit of a stretch (such as “people”). Keeping it basically simple and uncomplicated, one would think of actual water that is warm, and also known to exist in several examples/instances. Hot springs comes to mind. But this
    is not to suggest that you should ignore the possibility that FF was thinking
    about tears in the eyes of crying people, because this possibility may help in
    solving (or confirming a good solve of) the poem. I think other biological liquids (blood, urine, etc.) may be considered as well, but mainly for the purpose of confirmation/support for a solve.

    As always, this message is part of my opinion.

  2. From the last Odds n Ends…

    JDA’s example- I call up a travel bureau and say that I need the most scenic route to Santa Fe, NM.

    Seeker’s reply- JDA’s travel agent is a good example of being able to skip over the ‘start’ IF he could start somewhere down the road where the ‘scenic’ drive begins, idea.
    That doesn’t make WWsH really necessary to the point; without it we “don’t have anything” IF we can skip it… or it’s just a simple starting line.

    ——————————————————-
    JDA’s example is not a good example for what Seeker attributes a mistaken flaw in it by being able to “skip over the start”. This flaw of being able to start somewhere down the road where the ‘scenic’ drive begins.

    The reason JDA’s example isn’t a good one is because we know the precise ending place (last clue solved) which is Santa Fe, NM.

    Again, it’s comparing apples and oranges.

      • Robert, just in JDA’s hypothetical example. JDA’s use of Santa Fe, NM equates to the last location needed (hence last clue) in his example.

    • I’m kind of wondering the same thing Robert. I thought Doug Preston told us that Forrest said the final clue was finding his car in the parking lot at Denver Museum of Nature and Science, or something close to that.

      Now if this is true it is a clever hint by Forrest. It leaves a very large area of possibilities or a really small area of conformations. I believe the latter.
      Now I wish someone actually knew what the “blaze” is and could whisper it to me. Heck while I’m wishing I need ….. and …… and definitely more time in the Rockies.

      Also thanks MJ.

      Good luck to those still searching this season and watch out for traps DG is setting. They might be bison patties to slip on taking you down the canyon and getting you off her mountain. 🙂

      Bur

      • The final clue would be where they found his car:
        in the PARKING LOT of the (this part does not matter,
        it could be anywhere). You’ve heard me say this
        before , Bur. Ask a kid where they would park a
        car if they had one and the answer will be- on the tires.
        If your car is in a parking lot. then it’s probably
        parked. LOL, then google -contact patch- and
        you’ll have half the answer. A kid won’t get the
        second half. You have to be old enough to
        remember things like Burma Shave signs and
        advertising jingles. All IMO, of course, but I did
        park cars in Seattle in the 70’s, and when I
        close my eyes and imagine holding the chest
        over my head and shaking it, l can hear that
        jingle. Good luck to all that plan on squeezing
        in that last search of the season in MtWy.

    • FD,
      You conveniently skip the whole premise of the conversation about [WWsH] AKA the first point of a scenic drive.

      The Travel Agent gave a point {aka WWsH}, however, JDA could simply start his fun little, out of the way drive, at any point {aka the clues} he chooses… because he has a map {aka The travel agents suggestions} showing those places {aka later clues}.
      This leaves the starting point unnecessary to be at or even know of.
      Even IF the travel agent doesn’t mention that point {WWsH} and starts with a later point {any other clue} the drive will still end up at the last point, following the travel agents suggestion {aka the poem’s clues}
      Hence the flaw !…. If it is at all possible to find a later clue and just go to it… the stomping point to point method doesn’t require WWsH to even be known or can be skipped altogether, because points [later clues] can be found… even IF it’s only from clue number two.
      And that is out of the many possible routes {readers see in the poem} the travel agent suggested for JDA little scenic drive.
      IMO, and from many comments about the first clue by fenn, there is no way we can start at any later clue, including clue two. The point to point method allows any other clues to be a starting point… that’s a flaw.

      The question now is; IF you can be sure of hoB… ” why are you concerned about where warm waters halt?”

      Three answers are possible;
      1. You don’t have to be worried about WWsH at all. Problem? It contradict fenn telling us we need the first clue or we “don’t have anything.” If that clue is not nailed down “stay home”
      2. It is possible to discover later clues and be sure of them. Problem? We have been told looking for later clues is a folly, clue have to be followed in order of the poem [ constitutive and contiguous ]
      3. We should be asking ourselves “why” we “should be concern” about WWsH? Because many ATFs tell us we need that clue, and to Begin there.
      If stomping mode allows WWsH to be skipped by… it doesn’t explain “why” WWsH is needed at all. Stomping mode/method is a flaw method for the reason; there’s chance to “physically” go to, start at, later clues [ be it even the second clue ]. LOL even the last one…. You just lost consecutive order in any stomping mode if you can bypass the first clue… physically and/or not knowing of it.

      • Seeker, you said:

        “Stomping mode/method is a flaw method for the reason; there’s chance to “physically” go to, start at, later clues [ be it even the second clue ]. LOL even the last one…. You just lost consecutive order in any stomping mode if you can bypass the first clue… physically and/or not knowing of it.”

        From everything I read it sounds like the most direct route to the chest involved progressing through all of the clues. How would stomping mode be flawed if a person has to go by WWWH to get to the chest?

          • I see your point Seeker, yet there is still a way for us to have to physically be at the location of WWH and CD in order to start walking a point to point. If the most direct route requires parking at the confluence of WWH and CD then we have no other choice. I’m not saying your method is totally wrong and only point to point for all 9 clues is totally wrong. Just pointing how missing the first clue could be impossible in a point to point search.

        • Yes, Exactly, Aaron.
          The first clue can not be passed by nor not solved. A stomping mode method of point to point can allow a searcher to correctly find clue two or three or four and go from there… It’s the premise of a point to point method.

          Some will argue that this can’t be done because we need WWsH to start with. Well, why? is the question. IF we can know of a later clues the method allows possible clues skipped.
          IF you take the reverse engineering Q&A to say; we can find hoB… why do we need WWsH, CD, NF, BTFTW?
          I’ll say it again, I don’t think fenn meant the answer [ being a question itself ] to say we can find or be sure of hoB. He’s asking Why we should be concern about WWsH.

          IF all the clues are of places, and all the clues can be found married to a map… we, by right’s, can guess a good guess and go from there.
          LOL like we all seemingly are doing with WWsH.

          This is why I asked; Why do we need WWsH?
          I didn’t say this; fenn has.,, if we don’t have it we don’t have anything.
          It’s been solved, indicated, and with the second clue as well and folks on site… yet seemingly folks left the poem. Well, isn’t the poem a map?

          2 conclusions;
          No one can read a dang map…
          or
          We Need to be at WWsH… and know why.
          Passing it by or not getting it correct is not going to cut it.
          But the point to point method allows that to happen. Especially if you take the reverse engineering comment as it stand and ***sounds like*** ~ and not compare it to all the other ATFs.
          Fenn is reversing the engineering back on the question; Why should we be concern about WWsH?

          You said ~’the most direct route to the chest involved progressing through all of the clues….’ I agree.
          the point to point {stomping} again, is basically eliminating the need for the first clue… it allows us to figure out any other clue and go from there [ that point ].

          • Seeker;

            You say, “I’ll say it again, I don’t think fenn meant the answer [ being a question itself ] to say we can find or be sure of hoB. He’s asking Why we should be concern about WWsH..

            Unless you have the chest, how can one be sure of anything?

            Why do you say, “He’s asking Why we should be concern about WWsH..” IF we have found (any) hoB we should NOT be concerned with WWsH – Isn’t that so? We have passed that clue haven’t we?

            As I said earlier, knowing WHY Forrest chose HIS WWsH spot, only Forrest knows, and I (for one) can not see any reasoning in the remainder of the poem. You, to me, are asking an unknowable question. JMO – JDA

          • JDA ~ IF we have found (any) hoB we should NOT be concerned with WWsH – Isn’t that so? We have passed that clue haven’t we?

            Read the question again. It don’t say the searcher found anything prior, it is asking if they could reverse engineer to WWsH, not back to it again.

            And you misunderstand the “why”
            It doesn’t matter why fenn chose the location /place of WWsH… It matters “why” we need to know what to do when there.

          • Seeker;

            You say, “And you misunderstand the “why”
            It doesn’t matter why fenn chose the location /place of WWsH… It matters “why” we need to know what to do when there.” Now THAT is a question, phrased in a way that I can understand, that I can possibly answer.

            THIS new question: ” It matters “why” we need to know what to do when there.” IS answerable, where-as my interpretation of what you have been asking for several days was NOT answerable.

            THANKS MUCH for clarifying. When at WWsH, according to the poem, one must “Take it in the canyon down.” By your observational theory, we must “Take in the view.” I agree that this is very possible by the definition of these words. Others will say that we need to stomp our way down the canyon.

            Either way, we need to “Find” elements of the poem.
            We MAY need to “see” something on the longest day of the year, at sunrise, and “do something” in relation to what we see. All doable things.

            Look, see, plan, and do – according to how we use the words.

            Thanks for clarifying the question – JDA

          • By the way, I actually believe that the first 3 or 4 clues could be all very close to each other, and right at the BOTG spot.

      • Seeker;

        You missed MY point entirely. Although “I” knew that I wanted to go from Pocatello to Santa Fe. I had NOT mentioned it to the travel agent. Because I had NOT mentioned it, the travel agent could have started anywhere and developed “any” scenic route to Santa Fe.

        That was my point. One MUST know where to start, or you will pick the wrong route. So, the first question the travel agent HAD to ask (we must ask) is “Starting From what spot”? We MUST know where to start from, or stay home, and forget the trip all together.

        JDA

      • Seeker;

        I have to admit it. You have lost me. If Forrest has said that if you have found hoB, why are we interested in WWWsH? Or words to that effect. Why must I know anything about WWsH – much less WHY it is the correct one.

        IF I KNOW hoB, I do NOT need to know CD or WWWsH – or so Forrest said.

        You keep asking WHY we need to know what WWsH is? Forrest is the only one who can answer that question isn’t he? When I turn on a light switch, and the light comes on do I have to know WHY ithe light came on? Probably not – I just benefit from the fact that it does come on.

        IF I pick the correct WWsH spot – by intuition, magic, logic, or a lucky dart throw, why must I know WHY it is the correct WWsH.
        Assuming it IS the correct WWsH location, and I (someone) goes on to find Indulgence – Will there be a test where Forrest asks – “Why did I (Forrest) pick the WWsH spot? If the “Finder fails the test, what is Forrest going to do? – Take back the chest? Yes, I know I am being silly. No offense to Forrest or anyone else.

        Will you please explain your reasoning as to why answering the WHY question is so important. We bloggers / searchers have given OUR reasons, which you have discounted, or say are wrong according to how you read the poem. Help us out here will YA’?

        Not pickin’ a fight, I just do not understand WHY “you” think that this question must be answered, when Forrest says that it CAN be reverse engineered and that IF you know a later clue we should not be concerned with it. Just askin’ JDA

        • JDA,

          You have clue’s 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 to figure out.
          You figure out clue 4 and ask fenn can we reverse engineer clues 3 2 1 to clue 1?
          Well you should be bale to right? But apparently you didn’t need clues 1 2 3 and are sure of 4.
          The questioner skipped WWsH, skipped CD, skipped NF,BTFTW and apparently is sure of hoB.
          Can that truly happen?
          Not by all the comments the first clues that as been told of for many years… IF we don’t have the first clue we don’t have anything.

          You said ~ ‘IF I KNOW hoB, I do NOT need to know CD or WWWsH – or so Forrest said.’

          IF that is true… all those other comments / Q&As etc {AFTs] have to be false then.

          You said; ‘You keep asking WHY we need to know what WWsH is? Forrest is the only one who can answer that question isn’t he?’

          Sure he know the answer… but are we not supposed to figure it out?? Where’s the thinking and analyzing?
          If all you hope the first clue is, is nothing more than a starting line… then again, we can just start at hoB without even putting a single thought to it [wwsh], or the CD, or NF… just look for hoB, and not care that fenn has said looking for later clues is a folly, nail down the first clue or stay home, if we don’t ave the first clue we don’t have anything.

          Quick, quick !… which comment doesn’t belong with the others???
          We can skip right to hoB?
          or
          We need to be concern about WWsH?

          IT can’t be both… and I say all those comments ring true to each other, if ya just think about them.

          • Seeker;

            I have said that one MUST start at the beginning – period, One MUST figure out the correct WWsH spot – period. Garbage in = garbage out, as some say in the computer world. Wrong starting place = wrong end spot – period. Thus, the importance of thinking and analyzing the first clue – “Begin it WWWsH….”

            If, on the other hand, one were to accidentally, magically stumble on the correct hoB, and later finds Indulgence (which proves that the hoB WAS the correct one) would one really have to reverse engineer back to the WWsH spot? Sure, it would be nice to know, but since the treasure is already found, what is the need. THAT is how I interpret Forrests statement: ““If you are sure about the location of home of Brown why are you concerned about where warm waters halt?

            Your new explanation of the WHY question – What is it that we are supposed to do once at WWsH? – Although not really answering the WHY – seems a lot more logical and answerable – to me anyway. JMO – JDA

          • The reverse engineer question about hoB was a HYPOTHETICAL question. F’s answer to that question doesn’t have to be such that it’s possible to do that. Especially since he’s indicated in other statements that it’s not the way to find the tc.

        • Hi JDA,
          I agreed with your conclusion that “IF I KNOW hoB, I do NOT need to know CD or WWWsH”. Of course, it will be shortcut to go directly to the hoB but even Forrest said: “If you are sure about the location of home of Brown why are you concerned about where warm waters halt? And “throw in some gas money for a percentage of the take”?
          Maybe in this answer Forrest gave us some hint about the distance between the hoB and WWWH i.e. that we should drive between these 2 points?

          • If you know the spot where the chest is, why are you so concerned about the blaze, hoB, or even wwwh?
            You’re not. But if there is only one way in or out, then you have to start at wwwh.
            You all are going with the theory that this whole thing revolves around solving clues. That is not what f has told us. It’s putting an “x” on a map. It doesn’t seem obvious that f is saying you can reverse engineer, from a spot on a map? Doesn’t that say that it’s not clues but the poem to solve? He’s even said he has not given the answers to wwwh, and the blaze, hello. How can you solve clues when the two clues we know about have no answer?
            Even from Jenny’s video, ” how will I know if I have the clues right before my family and me drives out to get the treasure?” — You probably won’t. But yet the path will be direct and we will go in confidence. How is that possible?
            If you know where the spot is, you can go in confidence. Your path will contain the so called clues. Some you will know but not all. You cannot go in confidence if you are solving clues, period.
            The clue solvers need to go point to point, from one clue to another, but they will not know if they have the clues correct. A searcher that solves the poem and gets a spot, can still go in confidence to that spot.
            Wwwh is important, because if you don’t know the spot, you won’t have the correct start, and you have nothing. The correct solve of the spot will have the correct wwwh to start at. Why so important? Because it’s where the car is parked.
            A lot of solves we have read are point to point, and like Seeker has pointed out, it’s very easy to just go to the third or forth or fifth clue and start from there. This cannot be what f wants us to do, and is just flat wrong.
            It’s not a point to point solve. It’s following a path to a spot. Sooner or later, you have to walk the course. You don’t walk from one spot, to another, to another, where has f said that? It’s walking a path to a spot. To confuse that clues are needed to be stomped out instead of being followed because of a path is a big mistake. That does not yield a confident solve.
            We can argue all day long about solving clues, I mean, we only know of two for sure, and there is no answer to those two, so it’s a mute argument. The sooner a searcher stops thinking this way, solving clues and going point to point, and seeing that you cannot go with confidence this way, and that solving the poem is totally different, the sooner searchers will be on the right path. All, IMO.
            If you don’t know the first clue you have nothing, because having the first clue, with a correct solve, means you have the correct spot. But, the first clue is just a starting point, that’s all. The start to a path with one way in, one way out. This is why you cannot go to later clues first. You have to follow the path, which means following the clues. But in actually solving clues, it’s the last that needs to be solved in the end, so the spot the poem gives will have you follow a path with 8 clues. Every other way of thinking, with concerns to clues will lead to problems with the ATF’s, somewhere.

      • Ummm, Seeker. I have no idea what you are talking about. Just about everything you posted about was not involved in JDA’s scenario. I just focused on the info JDA provided us in his travel agent scenario.

        You can’t act like I skipped things if JDA didn’t put it in his scenario. Lol

    • If you are searching Yellowstone you might want to hurry. They just had first snows. https://weather.com/storms/winter/news/2019-09-10-first-snow-utah-wyoming-yellowstone-grand-teton
      The timing on your season will depend on the location and other factors. If you have a water crossing that affects your season because snow melt can flood a stream for weeks in the spring. If you are northern latitude the snows come sooner and last later. Down south they have monsoon months that you must search in the morning and be gone by noon or else you get washed away. In some places, the undergrowth goes nuts and makes searching tough in certain months as well. It pays to read a few trail hiker blogs for your area to get an idea of the weather before you commit to a trip.

      • The weather is what ended my search season last year. I was a mile and a half from my search area and it started hailing. I was on a long dirt road and didn’t want to get stuck so far off the the main roadway.

        I have a 4 day window to search this year at the end of the month but now I suppose it depends a lot on the weather. Being from Ohio and trying to understand how the weather works in the Rocky’s isn’t easy!

        Stay safe, everyone!

        TimM

        • On my journeys I carry in my vehicle. An axe, a come along, straps, rope, and a set of Trac Grabbers are nice if ones wheels and wells allow room for rig when needed. g

    • Hello Eaglesabound. I watch weather reports to see what is happening in and around Colorado. Some mountains got a little snow last night. On average, we can get a little over of an inch of snow in Denver in September, and first freeze I believe around the first week or two in October; again, averages. The northern search areas may get affected first, while the southern states may stay warmer longer.

  3. I’m not his Travel Agent, but I sure want to get together with my homie JDA and show him where I think warm waters halt. Long range forecast is showing me that there is not much time left for BOTG in 2019 ;-^{.

    • David;

      email me at SculptorJDA at aol dot com. I do NOT discuss in emails anything I will not discuss on-line, and I do not search for others, nor do I read other’s solves. But, if you want to chat you now have my email address – JDA

  4. Pablo, it’s not the clues that need to be focused on. It’s the poem. Try doing what everyone else is not doing. Trying to solve clues. Instead, focus on the poem. Pretend f never said there are nine clues. Think there are no clues and solve the poem. Whether clues can be solved or not, solving the poem will do that for you.
    Everybody is trying to solve clues, so do something different. Or, you could just head out toward the Madison and wonder around until it gets dark.
    I will keep saying it, you will know the end spot before you know wwwh. That’s just how the poem is written. To put an “x” on a map. And, since there is no answer to wwwh from f, that seems the only way to find wwwh, or your start place, by solving the poem, putting that “x” on a map, finding out where to start your path, and that’s wwwh.
    The fifth line will hint at things associated with wwwh. And I’m sure there are other references that will be compared.
    Think about the early searchers that found wwwh. In there solve, they solved for wwwh and started at that location, they just didn’t know the significance. But for them to start there, means they either just walked around there or they ended up there because their solve told them that it is wwwh. So how could they not know the significance of where they were at? Because that is not the way f intended for wwwh to be found. Wherever we all start, our solve told us to start there. We are fully aware why we are there. Same with early searchers. So why would f say they didn’t know it? Because you cannot solve for wwwh in that way. There is no answer given by f to wwwh. So unless they knew where the end spot was, which they didn’t, then f can easily say they didn’t know because he knows that it’s not found that way.
    Like I said, approach the poem like you never heard there are 9 clues. We only know of two, and saying anything else is a clue is just flat wrong. We don’t know. Too many solves have to say hoB is a clue, if not, they forget about the solve. That is just foolish. If it’s a clue, the poem solve will tell you.
    More studying of the poem, not the clues…

  5. Hi Aaron, I’ve also thought that if there was a clue in that chapter, it had to do with the girl. Hidden face, long braids, strut, good school.

  6. Hi Aaron,

    It’s very unlikely that PIBTHOB is the second clue. IMO, but it is clue #3 and it determines where you will park your car and start walking.
    Some searchers that have cracked clues #1 (WWWH) and #2 (ATIITCD, NFBTFTW) might be stopped at correct parking lot and walked around without realising that they are below of the hoB. Moreover, they most likely never knew that they did cracked clues #1-2. As Forrest said nobody will know that clues #1-2 were solved correctly before he/she found the chest. Currently searcher community has tens or maybe hundreds solutions for WWWH and TIITCD, NFBTFTW. Maybe some of them has correct solution but they can’t crack the hoB correctly and their BOTG failed.
    Forrest definitely did very good job when coded some area as hoB – he said that he never got the solution for this clue (#3 or 4):
    ”There have been a few people within 500′. I think there have been people within a couple hundred feet. They figure the first two clues, but they don’t get the third and fourth and they go right past the treasure chest.”
    I’m not sure 100% that the hoB is #3 clue i.e. it could be #4. But anyway it is clearly that nobody get the hoB correctly.

    • “people that were with(in) 200 feet didn’t know that they were that close to the treasure, and they walked right on by.” – from the Lure 5/18/17 notice he used the word walked. If you pair that with the quote you posted: ”There have been a few people within 500′. I think there have been people within a couple hundred feet. They figure the first two clues, but they don’t get the third and fourth and they go right past the treasure chest.” It seems that the 2nd clue clue can get you within 200 feet on foot, hence the walked right on by it.

      How can this be true if PIBHOB, as you state, is the third or fourth clue?

      It only makes sense IMO to be walking by clue two, perhaps at the junction of clues 1 and 2.

      • Aaron, you quoted Forrest as saying, “people that were with(in) 200 feet didn’t know that they were that close to the treasure, and they walked right on by.” – from the Lure 5/18/17

        Forrest said “People” not searchers or treasure hunters. I don’t know, but is it possible that they were just other people , not TTOTC searchers??

        • Its not a matter of thinking, it’s a matter of trying, Sure I mean people figured the first couple of clue and unfortunately walked past the treasure chest.

          Why would people not be searchers? Why would people try to figure out the clues if not searchers?
          fenn has used terms such as; searchers, people, others, even referring to them a *some* and all related to the chase. a couple time he even call searchers, seekers. I think one time he said; folks.

        • “Craig, there is no substitute for THINKING and planning and observing and looking at maps, unless it’s the desire to keep it simple.f”

          “It seems logical to me that a deep THINKING treasure searcher could use logic to determine an important clue to the location of the treasure. Is someone doing that now and I don’t know it? It’s not what they say on the blogs that may be significant, it’s what they whisper.” f

          Ya, I know, thinking didn’t solve it but got them within 200 ft.

          Trying didn’t solve it but got them within 200 ft.

          Now you say something really dumb again that contradicts what Fenn said Seeker.

          You are target fixated on the non stomping method and believe in your own theory. Go test it it out and see how well it works.

          You pick and choose the ATF’s just like everyone else.

        • Here are two quotes where he uses “searchers” when referring to the 200 footers:

          – Last month, you indicated that still nobody has correctly solved beyond the first two clues. Is this correct? Still nobody has solved beyond the first two clues?

          FF: Very few people tell me exactly where they are searching so there is no way for me to know. Some searchers have been within 200 feet.

          https://dalneitzel.com/2017/02/25/scrapbook-one-hundred-sixty-six-2/

          and another:

          Are there signs that people are getting closer to solving your puzzle? How many clues have people solved now?
          Searchers have come within about 200 feet. Some may have solved the first four clues, but I am not certain.

          https://dalneitzel.com/2015/11/02/forrest-gets-mail-9/

        • No Seeker.
          You said: “Its not a matter of thinking, it’s a matter of trying”

          How could it not be a matter of thinking? Were you thinking when you typed that?

        • So I got it backwards, Jake… If ya like you can look up the correct wording on; It’s in the media section on this blog and post the obvious mistake instead of saying; *Now you say something really dumb again that contradicts what Fenn said Seeker.*

          I’ve typed these comment’s out in just about every post i present, supplied the original place for which the comments came from… Searchers should know by now to double check anything another says. ALL should do their own homework.

          Although I’m curious as to why you only mention me in the whining and complaining. I dare you to read this thread, alone, from top to bottom and not find typos, punctuation problems, and yes something stated that was inadvertently backwards or a word left out here and there… etc.

          If you’re going to play *Chief Editor* ya might as well go all the way, right?
          OR are ya just trying to see how far you can push, for some personal reason?

          It’s a damn chat-room… not an college entry entrance exam.

          • Thanks,
            I finally comprehended what you said and glad you got the point.

            If you did your homework (as you state we all should do) and read what you wrote as well as fact check what you state here using this sites quotes from Fenn, you would do a lot better and be more helpful to others in a more accurate way OK *Chief English Hack*

            Lucy said good night.

      • Aaron, my point was simple: clues #1 and 2 are start point, direction and the distance of driving but #3 (PIBOTHB) is stop point i.e. parking lot where you start BOTG. If you have solved #1 and 2 but not #3 you can stop an any parking lot along CD driving including correct one (the hoB) because you don’t know exact distance of driving. NFBTFBW can be 10. 15 or more miles so there are tens parking lots. Forrest never said about searchers that were 1-2 miles close to TC. Maybe because at this distance there were hundreds of them. They just passed right parking lot. But some of them accidentally stopped at right one, started BOTG around it and got very close to TC (200-500 feet). Forrest called their BOTG the aberrations because they stopped there without solving the hoB. If they had hoB solved they will search more hard and find both the blaze and TC.
        Sure, there are many explanations why 200-500 feet searchers go right past the treasure chest. IMO that simplest one that they never know that they stopped exactly below of the hoB. One mile radius walking around this point can easy bring them within 200-500 feet around TC.

        • Andy, look at what are saying here. Searchers have gotten the first two clues right, then drove up to 10 or 15 miles and parked at the right parking lot, purely by accident, not knowing where they are, and then somehow wonder by within 200 feet of the chest? The odds of this scenario playing out seem very slim. If it helps with peoples confirmation bias then by all means go with it.

          Let’s examine this quote:

          Are there signs that people are getting closer to solving your puzzle? How many clues have people solved now?
          Searchers have come within about 200 feet. Some may have solved the first four clues, but I am not certain.
          https://dalneitzel.com/2015/11/02/forrest-gets-mail-9/

          He said SOME may have, not all. In order for your scenario to happen then would he just say “They may have figured out the first floor clues”? That is unless of course you have PIBTHOB as the second clue.

        • OK Andy, I see where you are going with this theory. I’ve only ever had one WWWHs, but there are many paths, or trails that could that continue to land me at the same HOB. FF says (paraphrase) if I told you HOB, you’d walk right to the chest. Is the one constant HOB?

        • Unfortunately we only know exactly what is clue #1 – WWWH.
          Second stanza can have up to 2-3 more clues but entire clue number is not 2.
          I always think that this Forrest phrase is very strange: “Some may have solved the first four clues, but I am not certain” Why he is sure about first 2 clues solved by some searchers but not certain clues #3-4?
          Maybe because Forrest knows that only the solving #3 and 4 bring you within 200 feet from TC? But at the same time he knows that searchers that were in such close proximity solved only clues #1-2. Question is how they come within about 200 feet? Forrest said it was an aberration i.e. something different from case if they come there via solving clues #3-4. IMO, but accidental stop at parking lot that is exactly below the hoB is an aberration event. Moreover, these searchers even didn’t know that they got clues #1-2 right and most likely that they never returned to this area again.

        • Hi MJ,

          in my solution the hoB is the one and constant. But I will know that it is real hoB from the poem only after I found TC.
          IMO, but other clues after the hoB can be solved only during BOTG. I’m not sure that the blaze is the last clue in the poem. Still have time before next summer to think about it.

        • Andy S.

          Those 3 or 4 clue solves that Forrest is not sure of might be a couple who have mention, most likely in a email, to Forrest 4 places or more in the area Forrest hid indulgence. Those places just happen to match clue solves but they did not specify those places as actual clue solves. Making it unclear to Forrest. Plus those places might not be answers to 1, 2, 3, or 4 then could be 1, 2, 7, 8 or even different all together. He did say 3 or 4, not which 3 or 4.

          This is my thoughts.

          Bur

  7. Seeker,

    You mentioned above, “IF you take the reverse engineering Q&A to say; we can find hoB… why do we need WWsH, CD, NF, BTFTW?”s This reverse engineering response from ff, I fully believe was a sarcastic response, especially for those that have tried reverse engineering starting from the blaze. IMO for those that take what ff said about reverse engineering from hoB to find WWWsH as literally that you can start with hoB is in my mind absurd.

    Your correct as well as ff has said, to nail down the first clue and each clue is in consecutive order. What I disagree with you, is that the stomping method has a flaw. There is no flaw in stomping out the clues, so long as you nailed down the very first clue and started there. What is flawed are the searchers that think they can start at hoB and then reverse engineer to find the first clue.

    The main issue is some searchers can’t tell the difference between sarcasm and metaphors and some searchers take ff and twist those statements to fit their own line of thought. That of course is IMO after lurking the threads here and elsewhere for a long time.

    Please excuse me if by chance for disagreements with IMO
    Peace

  8. That’s exactly it Aaron. Park at the first clue, the junction between the first and second, because there is no other way. To drive by the first clue to get to later clues is just not possible, IMO. You will run into conflicting ATF’s, and run the risk of skipping clues, and not needing early clues, it just makes no sense. Of course, 1000 years from now, people may have their own “jet-packs” and could just skip everything and go right to the spot. Unless there are no motorized vehicles allowed passed the first clue. I’m sure f has thought of that.

    • You brought up a good point that this method seems to be the one that checks off all of the ATF’s without a doubt. Other methods require some wiggle room on the ATF’s.

      Can’t wait to get my jet-pack. Although since I believe the treasure is in YS I probably won’t be allowed to use it there 🙁

  9. “I’m brand new to the Chase, but I just wanted to say I am so eggscited. When I saw an article about the Chase I started scrambling for answers immediately. I must have read the poem a dozen times by now. I thought I would have it cracked by now. I’m currently hatching a few new ideas and hope to have it solved soon”.

    — Robert “Chick” N. Little

  10. Well, I finally figured out how a young kid might solve Listen good…L- isten could be
    Ellisten, Montana – not fat from Treasure Mountain (, Lewis & Clark county. No trails there, but some old and new mining treasures.

    • IMO, Elliston is an unlikely place for Fenn to place his treasure, but the fishing along the little Blackfoot River is good, and there’s a YMCA day camp there (YMCA connection to Marvin, sr.)

    • There is a Treasure Mountain about 7 miles from Libby, MT, and it is 195 miles from Elliston, MT. Is that the one you were talking about ? Also, there are 3 of them in Colorado. The “kid” connection could be:
      Ask a kid about a treasure in the mountains, and they might think of the computer game for kids, “Treasure Mountain”. This, if correct, qualifies as “big picture” thinking. You would narrow your wwwh possibilities to things near one of the “Treasure” mountains in the Rockies. Also, “treasure” is a word in the first stanza.
      I have thought for a while now that some word or words in the first stanza will help pinpoint the first clue, in the second stanza.

  11. It looks to me like the large photos (at least 4 of them) at the top of these blog pages are hinting, related to the location of the treasure. I’ll take all of it as confirmation of a good solve.
    As always, IMO.

      • One photo of part of a lake.
        A photo of part of a different lake.
        A photo of part of a canyon.
        A different photo of part of some canyon.

      • A hint, by itself, may not help solve any clue. But may tend to confirm a
        successful solve of a clue. Good luck to Dal and everyone else. All IMO.

    • I believe the pictures of the books for sale on the top of the main page have the greatest hints and will get you close, the single star on the border, what’s in Forrest’s hand, the way the book lies open. This combined by finding an arrowhead that Forrest has already found (tarry scant with marvel gaze). There will be pinion nuts, million if not a trillion of cobblestones to look at, but find that arrowhead. That arrowhead if shown to Forrest should be the key. Imo-pinion

    • Tall Andrew… Dal has explained in the past that the photos at the top of the page were taken and donated here by Goofy. Some of them are not even in the search zone.

  12. Several things to comment on based on several posts.
    1) I cancelled my botg this week due to the weather. Probably waiting for Spring now.
    2) Forrest seems to clearly differentiate between clues, and the places the clues refer to. Following the clues seems to be required. Following the locations the clues refer to may not be required. I believe Forrest was on foot making 2 trips back to his car when he hid the treasure and he did not park at WWWH.
    3) I always interpreted that the 500ft comment shifted to 200ft after Forrest verified the searcher location to the treasure location at a later time. I am not sure of this, since I am not aware of separate 500ft and 200ft searcher confirmations.
    4) Regardless of what clue number that HoB is listed in, identifying HoB is not the clue. Putting in below HoB is the clue. Going to HoB instead of putting in below HoB could be the action causing walking on by.
    G

    • #1 hate u cancelled ur trip. snow will come but melt quickly for Sept, Oct has some good weather but bring hunters orange.
      #2 exactly right
      #3 immaterial
      #4 exactly right

      • Emmet, rain, thunderstorms and wind were in play. I did not want to deal with this and the mud that may come into play. I listen to JDA to stay safe.

        The distance to the treasure from possible searchers may play a role. If your potential treasure location does not have a viable and explainable way for searchers to accomplish this, your potential location may come into question. Also, keep in mind, Forrest was able to determine exactly where searchers were from what they told him. I do not believe coordinates were involved. Therefore there must be some specific landmark location identified by the searchers, and this would be within 200ft of the treasure. Maybe this would classify as potential confirmation.
        G

  13. Ok some of the discussions here have gotten beyond be.

    Is wwwh needed if you have hoB solved?

    Yes, because if you go to where hoB is you could see two possiblely three directions that could fit the canyon down clue. WWWH is the place that starts you on the correct trail for the canyon down clue solve. The “put in” point is actually down that canyon trail about a mile and quarter from hoB. I have talked about the elevation of the location place of hoB, it’s higher then wwwh and the canyon down trail. Thus at the put in place, in proximity of npuyc, it is actually “below” in elavation of hoB’s location. This is probably why searchers got the first two clues right and went by the others, by not understanding the “where’s” for this clue “put in below the home of Brown” are. They had another hoB location further down that canyon down trail and disregarded the “put in trail” (off beaten trail) on the left side curving up and in off the main trail, as they walked by it. Most likely those searchers were looking for a area that had a put in spot and a hoB place that were in very close proximity, and she definitely did.

    So you need to start at wwwh, but don’t wear blinders, look around before you take the canyon down you just might see the location of hoB up above you.

    As always this is food for thought, but it can make sense if you think about it.

    Good luck,
    Bur

    • Burr,
      You said,
      “WWWH is the place that starts you on the correct trail for the canyon down clue solve. The “put in” point is actually down that canyon trail about a mile and quarter from hoB.”

      How do you reconcile the clue, “Not far, but too far to walk.” ? A mile and a quarter is certainly not too far to walk. Are you using the observational “take it in” method at WWWH like some others?
      G

      • G,

        I believe I have found the answers to 7-8 of the 9 clue solves for my search area. Not far but to far to walk, I’m looking at three factors.

        My first botg trip to my search area I had some of the clues in another area and once I got there I realized Forrest couldn’t have made it to that place because I had a problem. So on my way back towards wwwh on that canyon down main trail I came across another trail that went up and in and I decided to go into that area and not far into this area I came across npuyc creek on the right and heavy loads on the left. I was shocked with the heavy loads because I would have not thought this in the woods and of course water high was up the trail further.
        So for me how far this “put in” place is from wwwh is the distance I wrote.
        Second reason is thinking of Forrest walking with a 20 lb backpack or bag I believe it would be a struggle at 79-80 yrs of age to go to much farther. Third, Forrest did say he hid the chest in one afternoon and made two trips, so the distance is pretty close imo, plus going up in altitude from the put in place to water high was a little bit tiring for me but I’m a flatlander.

        Hope this kind of answers your question.

        Good luck,
        Bur

        • Hi Bur;

          Twice you have described your little trail this way, “I came across another trail that went up and in.” Can you tell me what you mean by “in”? Up and to the right? or Up and to the left? or Up and in (to) a rocky area or some other land feature. I can’t see in my mind’s eye what you mean.

          Thanks in advance for clearing this up for me. JDA

          • Hey JDA,

            Ok at the put in point the trail goes up and curves to the left and at this curve you can no longer see the main trail. At this curve the opening is maybe 25 foot wide. Also at the curve you have the npuyc creek on your right. This trail moves up and into a bigger area kind of surrounded by tre covered slopes. As you proceed up the trail from that first curve it straightens out some and there lies heavy loads on your left side. Then the trail curves left again and opens up even more. and then the trail curves right going up to water high. Standing at water high you can now see this whole area and the area of the canyon down trail going back towards wwwh. Also there is tree covered peaks all around following a beautiful rushing river.

            JDA not sure if this explains “in” for you but that trail goes to a unseen area from the main canyon down trail. You wouldn’t know this place was there if you didn’t put in at that off beaten trail.

            Bur

        • But,
          Unless I am misunderstanding your explanation, it does not answer my question.

          Conventional wisdom about the clues gives us 2 main thought processes, either “too far to walk” means you take a car or other form of transportation (stomping) “take in the canyon down”, or you look only “take in the canyon down”. So are you saying with your solve that you park at WWWH, look at the canyon, then from there walk to HoB? Why would we need to look at the canyon down further than we can walk?
          G

          • G,

            Yes you can park near wwwh and once your at the place wwwh you can see a trail that goes down the canyon, but only see the trail for a distance about 400′ then it curves some. This trail cannot be seen in it’s total length do to all the curves it has. And by the way you don’t go to “home of Brown”, you pass under it as you take the canyon down. Also you do not drive down the “canyon down” to the put in place, you walk, hike, might even use a mountain bike, but that can only be “ridden” on the main trail. Guess you could push it up the put in trail all the way up to water high if you had a chest strapped to it. LOL

            Again hope this explained better.

            Bur

  14. Aaron and others…I’ve mentioned previously that I believe the coffee cup covering the salegirls’ face is possibly an illustration of the Yellowstone Caldera. When you study the YNP park service map (big picture?) the caldera is clearly shaded allowing you to see the “edges” or precise outline of the roughly circular “warm water vessel”. Just a thought. Could be any caldera, for that matter.

  15. Bur,
    How can you “Take the canyon down” at that point (WWWH) when the poem says “it is too far to walk”? Shouldn’t there be another way OTHER than walking because the clues tell you it is too far to do so.
    G

      • Does anyone know is FF says there are no red herrings At ALL? I do remember him saying (paraphrasing) that there are no red herrings in the poem. Does that statement include the book? Could there be red herrings in any of the books? Thank you!

  16. On the road again after three days visiting with Forrest.

    We have some new video interviews we will be sharing. There was also a crew there from Voice of America video taping an interview with him that is supposed to air in late September. They also followed Sacha and Mark around on searches in NM.

    I don’t expect to be home where I can prepare the videos for the blog for at least a week…and it will take me additional time to get at them after I get home…It’s been raining on the island and the grass will need mowing…chores before fun…

    Heading up to Yellowstone area now…will take a few days to land there…Taking the scenic route. Heading to Capital Reef Nat’l Park first. Never been there. But I love the drive along the bicentennial Hwy.

    All is good…

    So far, so good…no new deer implants on Ezy…2,100 miles and counting on the trip so far…

  17. I moderated a number of comments to oblivion today…
    Infractions included:
    No references for Forrest quotes…
    Topic would be better placed on another page…
    Stating something as fact that is not…
    Asking for money for a clue someone believes they have solved….
    Nonsense…

    If the subject is WWWH…there is a page for that…
    If the subject is the blaze…there is a page for that…

  18. Excellent. new content coming. I am currently on vacation. I was planning my first
    BOTG . would have been last week but will let it ride for now. Much more to learn.
    Maybe next year. Sounds like someone is heading for the huckleberry milkshake stand.
    One of these days I will have an x on a map. Hopefully. Much more to learn.
    Be patient and go with confidence. Happy Hunting.

  19. Happy trails to those fortunate enough to be outdoors enjoying nature’s beauty & searching.

    Gravity & Water have taken the lives of searchers who ignored safety.
    Bears are single minded in the fall..eat.

    Dal is a great example of how to do outdoor safety the right way! Looking forward to hearing from all who are searching.

  20. I am guessing that this has been mentioned before, but I will repeat it anyway… People have rightfully (in my opinion) assumed that Mr. Fenn would not put the treasure on private property, but that does not mean that conditions may not have changed since he hid his treasure. Once open access may now be blocked by newly erected fences. New, or even old land owners may have added barriers that Fenn never could foresee. I actually suspect this…

    • Ya, That would have been real smart by Fenn.
      He would have never seen that in the future.
      When you trespass on someone else’s property, you better be prepared to face the consequences including being shot at or death.

      If it was 100 years down the road, I would think of this possibility but now I think it’s very foolish to think this way.

  21. 9/16/15 on Richard Eeds show: ff partial quote: “…. There are a few getting close.”

    this is referring to figuring out the clues. that is four years ago + 2 days… that says a lot about what “close” will get you 🙂

  22. Random word definition I have just learned. Maybe it would benefit one of you. Of course FF told us that he used to shoot Meadowlarks for supper, and if he couldn’t get enough of them, he would bring home a Scissortail. If I understand it correctly, a Scissortail is a type of Swallow. My current study of the poem is focused on geography. As it turns out, a gulch is a type of geographical feature. Gulch means Swallow. Just tossing this out in case it helps anyone.

  23. I’m fairly certain this post is going to ruffle a few feathers. That is ok with me. I think that nearly everyone has been reading the poem wrong, and not only that, but I think TTOTC has been read wrong also. Whether I’m right or wrong, will only be proven if I can find the TC. I’m getting there I think.

    I suspect that Forrest’s desire to “have my bones rest forever, in silent repose, beside the treaure chest” (TTOTC, p 143), is not saying what we all have believed it is saying. In other words, I’m not sure that FF’s physical body was ever going to die beside the TC. I can’t tell you what makes me think this. But, I can say that I have re-read TTOTC at least six times over the past week and have arrived at this possibility. I have also re-read every quote I’ve ever seen from FF regarding the chase. Every single one of them in my opinion, supports my alternate reading of TTOTC and the poem. And, while I’m ruffling feathers, let me toss out one more thing that I feel certain of.

    It really bothered me when I first studied the poem, that it doesn’t have a title. I wondered, if possibly it’s title was the same title of the book, TTOTC. But, I don’t think so. My current reading of the book and the poem provide a logical reason to why the book has a title but the poem does not.

    Lets look at p 129, TTOTC. “why not let others come searching for some of it (the treasure) while I”m still here, and maybe continue looking for it after I’m gone?” So, if the goal was originally to let others come looking for the TC while Forrest was still alive, and the word, “maybe” is inserted in “maybe continue looking for it after I’m gone?”, then it sounds like there was a reasonable chance somebody might find it while “I am still alive”. (TTOTC, p 129)

    p 138 of TTOTC offers the quote, “It doesn’t matter who you are, it only matters who they think you are.” So who really is “speaking” in the telling of the poem or the book TTOTC? I know most think it is FF. I don’t think it is. I mean, the stories are his, but IMO they are the stories of something else also.

    All IMO

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