Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Eighty Nine

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563 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Eighty Nine

    • A great prize for a great cause!! I have the perfect place to display this! Coincidentally, it’s right above where the chest will sit if I’m fortunate enough to find it!! Haha!!!


  1. “What if” the area Forrest hid indulgence was a place the family traveled thru on there way to YNP one summer. Maybe stopping to fill the water bladder on the radiator and enjoying a little of this areas history. Then many years later dropped in to the area looking for arrowheads and eating volcanic chili, on a trip to Cody Museum for one of his many meetings or visits there.

    “What if” Forrest revisited this area in his latter years with a special friend and discover even more that this place had to offer with them. (Friend had pasted after this visit) . Two can keep a secret if one is….
    Maybe this is why he post this poem –

    Here’s a toast to the art of forgetting
    That friend of the fast dimming past,
    Gone down with the sun that is setting,
    The sordid has vanished at last.
    Remembering beauty untarnished,
    The joy and glamor enhanced,
    Reviewing the years with laughter and tears,
    In the twilight I ponder entranced.

    “What if” Forrest then again went back to this place to reflect on his life and help heal what cancer had seemed to have take away, still not knowing if his life would continue for years to come. Then after this visit he realized that this place was special to him, it had so much meaning in his life, and that it would be a wonderful place to hide his treasure chest. Giving young and old a chance to discover what he came to know of this area.

    Is this just imagination at work or maybe there is even some truth in it. Either way one should ponder on Forrest’s special place, and how that came to be?

    Good luck searchers,

    • Those are some deep thoughts, Bur. Thank you for sharing your ideas on f’s special place. I can imagine there are a multitude of things that make it special to him alone.

      Now I’m off to water my keyboard….

    • Some of the poems words make me imagine Forest driving near a big lake.
      Then he makes first trip to put a small boat with paddle in or near the water.
      Another trip to put a heavy backpack into the boat. If too heavy he uses a wheeled device to transport. Like a bicycle.
      Then he starts paddling the lake for a while.
      It nears a place on a map with the word “point” or “arm”.
      Then sees a HOB.
      This is near to a creek which one climbs up.
      Then walks to where there are lodgepole pines and a small water filled area.
      All imagination only of course. But fun to visualize.

    • Gets one to also think of the possibility that f might have come up with his special place not because he has been there more than a couple of times but there’s a lure(s) there that attracts him to this place. I can see f reading books about this place and pulling him in either before he went there or afterwards.

      • Fundamental Design,

        Your right there is a “lure” for Forrest there. Look at his home, his collection and the place it sits. History is in his blood.

        Good thinking FD,

    • Hi Bur;

      I like the picture that you paint; whether true or not. It is easy imaging Forrest, as a boy scampering up and down those hills – and then later, as an adult bringing a special friend here to show him/her the wonders of this place; only to return, after the friend’s passing, to this place for renewal and healing when faced with a cancer that one could not know, was in life-long remission.

      DEEP memories – profound memories. Memories (Riches) new and old.

      Yes, this was the perfect place to hide Indulgence – Special in so many ways. “IT” would represent Forrest’s life in so many ways. Whether true or not, Bur, I like the imagery – Thanks for posting – JDA

      • Thanks JDA,

        I have posted some of this before and thought maybe some searchers might needs some things to think about over the winter months. Whether or not all is true that is up to the ones who want to believe
        there is a reason, and just maybe Forrest special place is not just a area he was in in his younger years, but maybe one he truely found later in life.

        Thanks for your reply JDA,

        • I think that maybe you are right But – Great insight into Forrest’s life. Your ideas make a lot of sense to me – JDA

    • Bur,

      Some really interesting insights. Lot’s of food for thought during the winter months. Thanks.


      • Kurt,

        Glad I gave you somethings to think about. It’s all about confirmation after you believe you have most of the poem clues solved.

        Just like when some of Forrest ATF comments help in confirming things in your area of search. Only you can see them you hope, and you just smile.

        Good luck,

      • Kurt,

        Glad I gave you something to think about. It’s just getting confirmation on your search area after you have most of the clues solved.

        Just like in some of Forrest’s ATF comments that you hope no one else understands that helps confirm your search area, and just smile.

        (I wrote you back but my comment went into moderation because I put a wrong letter in my email address so that comment might pop up later, oh well.)

        Good luck,

        • Ever wonder why f says don’t go if there is snow on the ground? Besides the obvious, is there something on the ground, staged, that would be missed if we went when there was snow? Since we could retrieve in any weather.
          Would have to be a hint if so. Maybe something that makes you observe something else, like a clue.

    • Thanks Amy,
      These thoughts have been on my mind for sometime since I came across the area I’m searching now. I know Forrest has been there and that had me research far more to help understand possibilities. I just might know that special friend. Their name came up too to this special place. Now if I can figure out what the blazes is the blaze.

      Thanks again,

  2. In some online Treasure hunting terms a B is very important. (Google that to see treasure hunting terms.)
    One meaning listed of B is 13.
    Move 1 and 3 close together and it forms a capital B.
    Another meaning for a B means the “treasure is near”
    This means very little unless we look at the map in TFTW.

    Ever wonder why Forrest’s map has lines on it?
    He didnt have to put those there
    Nor explain what the lines were.
    So why put lines if they are not somehow important numbers?

    Of course they may not mean a thing at all
    But are very curious as to their importance…or not.

    • Copperhead: Those lines on the map are the degree variation
      between magnetic north and true north. Depending on where
      you are, it could be from 8 to 15 degrees difference.
      I don’t know if you make that adjustment to the left or the right,
      but IMO it’s just another way of saying his gun doesn’t shoot straight. Curiously, 12 degrees passes through West Yellowstone and my favorite spot. Always remember-
      His gun doesn’t shoot straight and the cold water is on the right.

      • I though his sight was bent? Which he would only say that if he missed his target. He then made mental note of the needed compensation to make an accurate shot . Plus side didn’t have to worry about someone out shooting him with his own weapon !

    • Copperhead: “He didnt have to put those there”

      and he didn’t have to, nor did he put them there, the company who did the map for him put them there, he didn’t know Canada was missing from the map until later… obviously he did not participate in the details, when canada goes missing.

      • Thanks for the info everyone.

        If the lines were on the map already then I’m ok with that of course. Just wondering why he might have left them (since they worked with the map company and could have easily removed them using photoshop like I often do with my own artworks or like I use when editing our international magazine’s art submissions) nor why he put the text there explaining the lines nor why they extend into the poem area.

        Maybe totally irrelevant though.
        (Just a bit odd to my own editing eye. But not trying to make anything out of this other than wondering why they didn’t edit it out,)

        Thanks agin to all.

  3. OK! Here goes…..
    I believe in my heart I know the location of the chest.
    This is probably the most visited site in relation to the chase; therefore to make it fair, I am posting here.
    I had posted a friend of the great man and a newcomer to the chase, stating that who ever looks for and finds who the great man is, and not where the treasure is, I will tell them the spot I have found.
    We have all been told over and over again by this special man, how to find his chest. Maybe if we spent less time searching, we would have listened.
    I can not count how many clues we have been given, along with hints.
    If you truly listen to this special man, with no thought of the chest, nor the riches or the people he knows; there is one thing I believe that stands out about his life.
    Umbilical? Yes. Special? Yes. He had to make it work! No matter what.
    It is not who you are, it is who they think you are!
    Forget the chest, find out who the special man is. It may be worth your while.
    I have good reasons that I can not go, and I really need the financial gain; but, life is life. Yes I want title, yes I want the surprises; but I am a realist.
    No I have not failed and will be sad of course, I really believe now though, that most people want this over. I hope I am right in this.
    Please do not email me, unless you truly believe you know the great man.
    I suggest you spend your time wisely and not just to slate me.
    Words are important, in some cases they have over a hundred meanings, see what he says do not assume.
    For me, with a frog in my throat I would say Bells are important.

    • KIDQUIZ-
      Q- Why is it when you look for something you always find it
      in the last place you look?
      A- Because when you find it you quit looking.
      Sounds hokey but that’s how you need to interpret some of
      the things Forrest says. Like a kid.

    • Very interesting post Mario. Who is the great man that you speak of? It is Forrest, of course, but do any of us really know Forrest? That is a good question. I HOPE that I know who he is, one of the most generous people I have ever heard of. Giving, in SOOOO many ways. He gives of his time, his intelligence, his imagination, and most of all, his love of people, places and things – especially of those places and things of the past, most of which relate to the Native Americans. I do not think that most people understand just how committed Forrest is to the chase. The hours that he spends looking at emails, and reading posts, and communicating in so many ways with the search community. A VAST amount of effort – fueled by his love of people and adventure. All just my opinion thouigh – JDA

      • Thank you for that JDA.
        Through his books, media, and his own words he tells US of a place that is special to him.
        He also tells us all; WHY!!!!!!

        • HE DOES NOT ASK THE QUESTION. – The question that you are hinting at is : Who is Forrest Fenn, as a man, and as a person? Let’s hope that his autobiography will answer that question. I tried above to answer that question – in brief – but there is obviously SOOOO much more to the man that I am unaware of. I personally have never had the pleasure of meeting him, and yet I consider him my friend – a friend found only through the Chase – JMO – JDA

          • Too many ways to solve this thing. I think I am on too many paths. I have ADHD and my brain is about to explode. Grammar , smiles, eighty, why, s , imagination, arrows, drawings, I can’t take it!

        • A man who was given a second chance at life – a man who was reborn. This thyme he was gonna get it write.

          • I “believe” you are correct wwwamericana – a second chance at life to get it right… particularly following a long hellish look at death (via cancer) causes a man one to consider lives taken, wrongs done to others…

            Forrest once said, “slam the door and start over.”
            In my opinion 1988 was the start of his journey through the shadow of death .

  4. I read that a analyst in the stock market say the price of gold might be up to $2000.00 dollars a ounce by July of next year. That would make just the weight of the gold in the treasure chest at about $482,000.00 dollars alone. But we all know some of that gold is worth a lot more because of what it is. So what would the value of the chest be then if found. I bet it would be more then I can count on my fingers and toes. Lol

    Just thinking out loud,

    • Now that would be a BUNCH – or I think it would… not sure I can count that high though. I need my fingers to point to the toes to keep track, so how can I count both? haha 🙂 JDA

      • JDA,

        In a way I’m just curious what someone would pay for the complete chest, if auctioned. Of course that silver bracelet has to be given back to Forrest as part of the deal.


        • That is a very interesting question Bur. I too would like to get the answer to that question. Chest minus the bracelet, minus one memento left behind as a “Thank You” for the next finder to find. JDA

        • Perhaps he wants the chest back also – a fitting place for his ashes (and Peggy’s). Just thinking…..

        • I wonder if National Geographic will have an article on the beautiful spot that he his his treasure.

          • MJ,

            Really like that question so I had to look that up. Yep they sure have but no picture of Forrest special spot. They even gave a hint to wwwh. Dang wish I would have thought of this. Of course all is imo.

            MJ you have one up in my book, thanks for the question.


          • Now you went and done it MJ. I got National Geographic on the brain. I looked up to see if two things-(bad term) related to the big picture area were ever in NG and yes they had articles about them too.

            So now I’m going to look up my shoelaces and see if they did article on them.


          • Ok I’m done for the day. NG had a article on my shoelaces. Just kidding.

            Have a good weekend searchers. I’ll be celabrating mine. Cheers


          • I am pretty sure that NG did the special on this place in general, though not directly mentioned about the chase, including beautiful sceneries, many features, animals near and in it, and past history and future.
            — MajinKing

          • I was going to release all the details (solve, clues, and explanations) when I find the TC sometime next summer, but I’m rethinking whether I should do it or not.
            — MajinKing

          • Sorry, “when” in my previous post should be replaced with “if and when”.
            — MajinKing

          • One issue of National Geographic years ago, had a full spread on the Sange De Cristo mountains, due to there mystique.

        • @Zaph
          I couldnt reply to you directly so doing it here. I’ve been think about Nat Geo and George . I’m still looking things up.

  5. I can speak from experience when you are diagnosed with cancer ,it changes your outlook on life. First thing i thought of was the things that I wont be around to see that I would have never imagined would be cut short. Then came my downfall I attached some of the dearest memories were they did not belong. It is never a good feeling when your talking about some of the best memories you shared with someone and they tell you. Maybe you should go find the one you made those memories with because they dont recall none of them!!!!!!! I was fortunate that I had a rare case of cancer. It was removed and I have never been back to check up on it . That has been over seven years ago. They did find some things out about me that was very unique per say . Kinda funny how I remember back in high school we did a lab exercise and the results were the same there too and poke berries don’t effect me lol. Same class my awareness started taking its first steps as well. I appreciate how this chase has been taking me down some old roads I pray that there is one that the bridge is still cross able because that in my opionion was were the treasure was IMHO…

  6. You know I was thinking this morning about my search area. One that I have had for a few years now. Wondering about all the clue solves I have come to know, but not understanding or seeing the most important one.

    I have travel out to this area 5 times but my time searching is limited. Each time I had only 1 day to search, and believe this is the reason I can’t figure out that one important clue. My solves for all the others fit like a glove, so why such a issue on this last one.

    I think I have come to a conclusion.

    This important solve is the blaze. I have been to my water high and looked in many directions and see so many things that I could mark as possibilities, even things in areas close by, but how do I narrow all this down? “Been wise” has my mind doing flip flops. Have I seen the blaze on my treck up from the put in spot, or have I read what it could be in TTOTC book or in Forrest ATF comments or scrapbooks or does it related to maybe one of the other clue solves. I believe this my issue trying to find the blaze, I have to much information to consider and my mind kind of goes blank trying to put all this together for one blaze.

    So what can I do to remedy this?

    Guess the only way I can see is to have more time out there searching and try and cover all the bases. I’m sure it was easy for Forrest to just look out and see what he considers a blaze, but for maybe a mind filled searcher they just might have a hard time locating his easy blaze.

    Not sure if this the same for any other searcher here and if it is have you figured out and resolve?

    Not what and where is that blaze?


  7. I was looking through some old interviews and this answer by FF is making me wonder what he meant.

    “Stubbornness is sometimes confused with tenacity. There are many avid searchers looking for the treasure who are not blinded by its value. After I hid the treasure I never went back to that spot, and now I can’t.”

    Why can’t he go back now? Besides the obvious of it would make it known if he visited the area. But let’s just say that’s not the reason. If it’s in a place a 79/80 man can go, why can’t he go back? Is it “too far to walk?” Too high up in elevation?


    Here is the link to the question and answers:


    • James;

      Forrest has stated that because of his advancing years – now 89 – he can no longer go back to where Indulgence is – Just too hard for him – JDA

    • I think the poem tells us the answer to your question, specifically “and now I am weak.” Such line indicates that the condition of being weak that the person referred to as “I” is experiencing is an ongoing thing because “I am” is present tense and such necessarily attaches a habitual/constant characteristic to the weakness of that person.

      By publishing TTOTC, and resolving never to go back to the spot where he hid the chest (see the Laura Thoren interview—Tarry Scant website using keywords “never go back”), FF has locked himself into the perpetual condition of being powerless when it comes to going back to that spot—it is both a self-imposed and a self-enforcing (?) dilemma—he can’t because has decided he won’t.

      • Bowmarc;

        I think that the full stanza needs to be looked at. There is a question, and then an answer. The question has two elements “Go” and “Leave” where-as the answer also has two parts – “Tired” and Weak”.

        I think that the question and answer need to be linked – “Go” – “Tired” and “Leave” – “Weak”

        Tired can mean to want to lie down, to get to a lower elevation – So, Go to a lower elevation, Weak can mean watered-down like a WEAK – watered-down drink – or a slow moving or weak place that it wet. So, Go to a lower elevation and find a place where there is a slow moving spring or rivulet – a wet place. Didn’t Forrest say that Indulgence is wet? Just how I see it. JDA

          • The “I” translates to “YOU” so YOU must go to a lower elevation where you will find a wet (probably swampy) place – JDA

          • I also skipped a bunch of other words, but I will leave it up to you to decipher the others. I am not about to feed you everything my friend – 🙂 JDA

        • Yours is a possible interpretation as well, JDA, one which you have shared before.

          I have looked at the stanza as a whole, but only shared this tidbit since it was specific to the question at hand and revealing my whole interpretation is tipping my hand a little too much (although I do recall speaking at some length about this stanza and cancer somewhere on this thread, and you and Seeker were perhaps the only ones to respond at the time).

          • Seeker has a keen mind, and asks lots of “WhatIf” – one might do well to listen when he speaks – JMO – JDA

          • JDA,

            We all have “what ifs”, to single Seeker as the one to listen to doesn’t work for me. Because as he has mentioned in the past here on this blog, he doesn’t know where the first clue is or what it is.

            As I mentioned above we all have those “what ifs” and is important to listen or look with what others are saying in this Chase.


  8. Sometimes when searching Google Street view you come across something interesting.

    In the link below in May 2009 is someone in blue and maybe grey hair walking about 200 ft from the road. Is this Forrest? I won’t be checking this out so if anyone is near US-84 north of Ubiquiu Reservoir stop by and take a look. Hopefully I didn’t just give the treasure away. 🙂

    I just can’t seem to fit HOB or Meek into this location.



    • Kurt,

      It’s hard to tell what the blue is, let alone a grey haired man. As far as your 200 ft comment is just speculation unless you know where the treasure is hidden and have retrieved it.

      Sorry, one word “Speculation”

    • Kurt, how many clues do you think you have correctly solved?
      Have you bounced your solve off any anyone to see if they agree with your
      solution to any of the clues? By the way, I believe the TC was hidden in the summer, surely after May of 2009. Good luck to you.

      • Tall Andrew,

        I always bounce my ideas off my wife. The problem as we all know is it’s easy to fit our solves to the poem. That’s why no one has found it in 9 years.

        My current idea for WWWH I have rationalized two possible solves all the way up to the Blaze. In my opinion, the Blaze won’t be visible until you’ve gone up the creek. Forrest has said searches have identified the first two clues and were within 200 ft so I think once you find the Home of Brown it will be a short distance to the treasure.

        Again, just my opinion.

        So, until I find the treasure, have it appraised, and notify Bur of the value, we won’t know for sure any of the clues.


    • There is a “Show historical imagery” button in the menu bar at the top. It looks like a clock with a green arrow going counter-clockwise. It is only accessible when in 3D mode. Click this and you have access to recent and historical images in 3D mode. In street view you only get whatever is the latest image from Google (I believe). No historical images in street view.


  9. Does anyone know of another way to attach an image avatar next to the handle name other than going through WordPress’s site?

  10. Well, hell! The link is in response to a post that asked about contacting IllinoisGhost …..now, the dang post disappeared??

    • Hello locolobo. I see a link you’ve provided above your most recent post. Are you able to see it?

      • Hiya pd, how ya doing?

        Yep, I see my post w/ the link…..but the post I was replying to has disappeared. Didn’t pay attention to who posted it, so I can’t address them directly.

        Good Luck to ya Lady…..should be a very entertaining off-season this year, no?

        • Hello locolobo. Meeting life’s new challenges by the horns.

          Looks like I missed the original post for which you’re speaking of.

          It’s going to be very entertaining off-season, indeed. Good luck to you, locolobo. I hope to see you post again.

  11. Perhaps there is no blaze (gasp) – what did I just say? Could it just mean that you know where you are going – because you are wise?

    Fire away at me y’all…

    • Why, then, would Forrest say “The clues will lead you to the treasure and whether it’s buried or not, you can find it if you can find the blaze as a result of starting with the first clue. That’s what you have to do.” (From The Lure Post-Screening Q&A 5/18/2017)

      and many other blaze ATFs


      • wwwamericana – I repeat:

        Find ‘IT’. Find the blaZe/blaSe. Be WiSe. Start at my WWWH; the first clue. Madison Junction as the place to ‘begin IT’.

        Look quickly down at the S-curve/$ at Baker’S Hole. Then do the ‘worth the cold’ Boots-In-The-Water or jump-in-a-canoe thing, to get to the Ninth Clue;

        “If you are brave and in the wood,”

        Then look down to see the bronze chest.

        All IMO.

    • Oh great….so you are saying that the Blaze isn’t even a clue??? I thought it was CONFIRMED that the Blaze was the 9th clue!!!! But Forrest said “look down”!

      I do like your different way of thinking though www!!

      • Thanks Moody – maybe the light just came on……
        Just trying to switch it up a bit.

    • Let’s see, Forrest Fenn interview VOA October 2019.

      Forrest, “When you get to the ninth clue look down because you’ll, you’re where the treasure chest is.”

      The Poem
      If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
      Look quickly down, your quest to cease,

      The Blaze is the ninth clue.


      • That is your interpretation Kurt. Just because the poem says to “Look quickly down…” and Forrest says to “Look down” – does not mean that they are one and the same. One can look down from any clue – Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon DOWN – Look down the canyon – etc. Don’t read too much into the one word “down” – JMO – JDA

      • Agree with JDA. The similar wording offers a possibility of connection, but isnt necessarily validated.

        There is a good probability that one will need to look down when reaching the treasure spot, in which case Forrests comment could work regardless of where the last clue is in the poem.

  12. Show the poem to a kid. Maybe the first stanza is loosely based on a children’s fairy tale / story?

  13. After reading the last Canin Creek solve I’ve thought about this area and areas around it.

    As we know many searchers tend to gravitate to Yellowstone National Park and West Yellowstone Montana areas for their solves of the poems clues. I can’t say that I wasn’t attracted to these areas too in the beginning, but over the years especially seeing all the post of searchers that canvas these two areas you have to wonder if searchers are concidering all the other searchers in those prime spots. To me if you research your wwwh and your canyon down and see over six searchers have been to these locations, there is a good possibility that ten to twenty times that have been there and never post it, maybe your solve area has been over searched. I believe YNP and West Yellowstone areas are beautiful places, but most who search there now to me are just repeating a lot of the same searchs in places that I have seen over and over throughout blog posts over the years.They could be most likely be wasting their time if they truely are looking for Fenn’s treasure. There were at least five searchers that I knew about in the areas of West Yellowstone and of Firehole, Madison Junction, and quite possibly more that I didn’t know about, when I was there Spring of 2011. How many have been in those areas since? Thousands or more.

    I’m not telling anyone not to search these very common spots just do some research to how many have had the same solve ideas for your first two clue solves. Remember Forrest has said several -(refer to Moby Dickens video below) have gotten the first couple of clues, not a lot or hundreds.

    I have researched my area that I have now, and there were two searchers, that I know of, in the very early years (a woman and a man) that had the same first two clues and another after that. All mentioned wwwh area then traveled on the same main “canyon down” trail but went to three different hoB so call locations. Not one considered the hoB high above wwwh or the off beaten trail (the “put in” location) below (hoB’s elevation) about a mile 1/4 down that canyon. In fact the first two were to far down that canyon that by time they got to their final clue solve there was no way Forrest could have made two trips in one afternoon from their solves. These first two searchers were at this area well before Fenn’s comment came out “two trips in one afternoon” in this Moby Dickens book signing.

    All I wanted to say is maybe research your solve and see if it has been well traveled, if time and money is something there is not a lot of for you just try and make sure you’ve have done your do diligence as to not waste either. All is my opinion.

    Good luck,

  14. I find all these SB’s amusing and I peruse them, like all y’all do, with interest – looking for hints and clues in his words. As each SB comes out, hundreds of comments are made. Many of them are interesting and lead me to research into areas that I would have never gone. But oh, I get so tired of “so much talk.” Hashing and re-hashing over the same things.

    As soon as a new SB comes out, we immediately forget about the previous one(s). They soon become just “astericks” in this wild and crazy Chase.

    Perhaps we need to return to the begininng – to SB 1 and reread it. Although it is written by the mighty Dal, there is a quote in there which to me is extremely important. Something maybe we should take remember and take into consideration as we search for his treasure. Let me share the words.

    “Forrest taught her to tie flies and as payment, made the rule that she can never fish for trout with a fly that she has not made herself.”

    Food for thot and as always IMHO.

    • when the noise begins to bother your ears…
      a] flip the switch
      b] change the station
      c] press rewind and listen again
      d] make your own music

      • Sage advice old friend….. I choose: (e) all the above, depending on the day of the week 🙂

        lol….’mericana, ya don’t know how tiring and weak it makes one; wait til you been washing, rinsing and repeating for seven or eight years!!

        *I wonder if Goofy still tunes in periodically???

  15. On the road to Santa Fe for the next few days so I will be slow in administering the blog…
    Un-moderating comments may take longer than usual…

    There are more SB’s coming out as Forrest finishes them…but I may not get them posted immediately because I am on the road. I will get to them as quickly as possible…

    • Just got back from spending a week day hiking with the dogs there. Aspens seem to be late to change this year. Still lots of green, but my favorite grove, two hours in from a Pecos trailhead, was full yellow, so a treat. I imagine they’ll be at peak when you arrive, though many leaves are already on the ground.

      I began every hike with my usual blessing to the wilderness gods by voiding my bladder of the grande americano I consumed on the way to that day’s trailhead. It occurred to me that, since warm waters were halting about a foot and a half just in front of me, I was starting each hike with a potentially successful solve of the first clue. But since I always went up from my WWWH (man, there’s a lot of up out there) and never down any canyon, and stayed on trails, so never was in ‘very close proximity’ to TC, if considered searches, each was an undeniable failure. But nothing that a blue corn chicken enchilada or green chile cheeseburger (I thought Santa Fe Bites was to have re-opened by now!) couldn’t put right.

      I don’t know how you tolerate all the driving you do. Clearly, competence and courtesy are not prerequisites for obtaining drivers licenses. I’m more exhausted from a 10-hr drive than from a 10-hr hike.

    • Be careful on the road Dal and watch out for the wildlife! And keep those SB’s coming when you have time! BOTG in less than 2 weeks and these SB’s are keeping me busy and making time go by.

    • Hi Dal,

      we are still waiting for last interview with Forrest that you have promised to publish on your website. Of course, if we get Part 1 and Part 2 after your current trip it will be perfect. Any word from Forrest to searchers could be very important piece of puzzle in someone’s solution. We have long winter before spring 2020 so any information from Forrest is welcome.


  16. I believe retirement is making Mr. Neitzel more prolific with The Chase than ever. I will be turning around looking for him coming up behind me on the trail next search season!

    Safe travels Dal!

    Say “hello” to Forrest for us!

  17. This is an open question for everyone.

    Having not kept up on the blogs and forums lately I’m wondering if anyone has ever posted anything spec regarding Forrest’s Mysterious Writings comments in June 16, 2017 where he discusses safe searching suggestions and says when wearing waders to use “felt soles and not rubber.”

    The reason why I bring this part up, is because the at least the month before this (see this link: https://www.eastidahonews.com/2017/05/yellowstone-considers-dumping-felt-wading-boots-fishermen/)

    It was already known that Yellowstone was going to BAN the use of “felt soles” and require rubber soled boots only. If Forrest knew this (which is very possible, if not likely), then his comments would seem to indicate that the Treasure Chest is NOT in Yellowstone.

    To add to this idea, Forrest starts his whole reply to the Question with the following words:
    “Yes Mrs. M, your email IS TIMELY, and because you are new to the search I will reiterate what has been said many times on blogs and in the media. If you plan to search in a National Forest or a NATIONAL PARK you should ask a ranger to brief you on your particular area.”

    Why is June more timely than say March or April? Unless it’s timely because Yellowstone had just made the announcement regarding the future rules and this is precisely WHY you would need to get a RANGER’s BRIEFING – to be up to date on the latest rules…

    Any thoughts?


    • Last April in a S.B. He said ” soon there will be searchers out looking for my treasure chest, but not yet “! It may be in May of June and shadows at that time might help point out the spot he put the chest? Not sure, but he wanted to tie everything together and his sisters name is June. Like I said not sure of course.

    • **** **** **** ****
      GCG asked about “. . . Forrest’s Mysterious Writings comments in June 16, 2017 where he discusses safe searching suggestions . . . .”
      **** **** **** ****

      Context –
      This “Know the Limits” post was kind of a “first draft” of at least two more safety comments by ff at the time when a searcher (Pastor Wallace) went missing (later found drowned) in the Rio Grande River north of Espanola. You’ll remember that this tragedy prompted much “call off this chase” talk in NM.

      I was vexed at the time that ff would even suggest to novices the idea that waders might be something they should consider. The quote in his response is “Wearing waders in fast moving water is dangerous, especially if you don’t have the chest type with a tight belt around your chest that will keep most of the water out if you should fall.”

      (Shortly after this another searcher drowned in the Arkansas River in CO in a cheap department store raft.)

      Maybe ff thought he was being proactive in bringing up this “safety tip”. The “Mrs SRM and son” he was responding to certainly didn’t mention waders.

      Some think “waders” is actually the crux of ff’s “quibbling/prevaricating” response to the 2015 question “Besides walking, did you use any other methods of transportation to get back and forth between the car and the hide?”

      I though it was a bad idea to bring up waders at all. Certainly any novice searchers inexperienced with them could think them a great idea – “wow, with those I could cross a hip-deep stream, not just a below-the-knee-deep stream!”

      I still think it was a bad idea.

      In response to your question, I don’t think hinting Yellowstone yay-or-nay was any part of ff’s thinking at the time of this Q&A.


      • And yes Jake — clearly safety was in the forefront at this time however I think the time to issue safety messages would be earlier in the spring when many searchers are beginning to hunt especially in the southern Rockies (he acknowledges this in the answer both referencing the cold of winter & New Mexico searchers dealing with heat). Certainly the middle of June is not perfect timing since many searchers have already begun and others will not get the message until even later…

        And like you said, why bring waders up at all? Either:
        1) He already knows many searchers are at serious risk with waders, if so why not have mentioned this even earlier?
        2) Waders are an intended part of the solution, as you said there seems to be several things that point to this possibility
        3) It potentially is a hint that the Treasure Chest isn’t in Yellowstone…but that summer Yellowstone was still allowing felt soles.

        PS just some additional thoughts – I was mostly wondering if anyone has spotted this detail previously.

    • GCG – I wore a size 9 in these boots with the studded Kling-on rubber sole and wading socks. I was wearing below the knee length running tights, a long sleeve Patagonia capilene top with my Columbia down vest over that. I had one of my fly fishing librarian friend’s ski poles to use as a fly fishing staff (too short for me!):


      My friend had just bought those boots, used, from a friend. They are a little big on her. Since it was my first river crossing, and in Spring, to boot (pun intended), I felt deeply grateful to have this gear. I was scared out of my wits, while crossing. Both directions. My friend goes Steelheading on the Snake River in Stanley, Idaho, guided by Scott Schnebley (that “Flywater” book author’s friend), so crossing was relatively easy for her. I couldn’t imagine having to carry the 20-22 pounds of the bronze chest or its contents on the return. I was really, really tired, after crossing about 100 ft. of that over-my-knees with heavy current water.

      • GCG – We both had day packs on. I had a large plastic zip lock in mine, to dump the contents of the bronze chest into, to then place in my pack. My friend would carry the bronze chest in hers. We were well prepared, Forrest!

    • I was wondering when he might give an update on that particular story..You just had to know that some people are going to think that Forrest is just not telling the truth and purposely trying to mislead them. It’s not associated with any structure means diddly squat to certain people..Hell I know of some that think it’s in Idaho and that Forrest is just slyly leading us a stray..These guys get a solve in their minds and every one is wrong but them. This is just one mans opinion from experience gained on another treasure hunt..

  18. I know in terms of fairness, this is probably never going to happen. But maybe it’s time for Mr Fenn to compile a top ten. 9 random people, with 1 of the 10 being the LS. That way no one knows which is the real LS.

    Maybe this will prevent further issues. Then again, maybe not.

    • Why does me Fenn have to keep doing anything else I wonder. Isn’t a piem, book and geography good enough. He said it was.

    • Sorry James–That’s just NOT going to happen..Forrest said he would not give any assistance to any searcher or let anyone know they are getting close.. Just one mans opinion,taking Forrest at his word..

    • Lead searcher categories:
      Most failed searches?
      Most failed solutions?
      Most e-mails to Forrest looking for some kind of confirmation?
      Most proclamations of solving the clues?
      Most meltdowns after failed searches? (my personal favorite)
      Most correct solutions but someone got there first?
      Take your pick, but know this: every time you put BOTG,
      if there’s nobody in front of you, then YOU are the lead searcher.

      • Sorry! Not entirely correct. If you were within 200 ft, and walked right by it, the person behind you would be the lead searcher; would they not?

    • Paulette,

      Didn’t know what you were referring to, had to scroll thru each comment made above. Maybe copy and paste the line as to help in these discussions next time.

      Yes, I see what you are referring too now, and I am wrong in the spelling, “passed” would be correct. Sometimes it’s me and sometimes it’s autocorrect.
      Maybe like Forrest said – if you know what I mean then what makes the difference. The line proceeding did say- Two can keep a secret if one is …. (blank means dead).

      Thanks Paulette, hope you understand now.


  19. I sometimes find myself changing the lyrics to songs as I am listening to them and singing along, and one such song I recently heard was Dream On by Aerosmith. While listening, I started to make my funny lyric change chase related, and the result was sounding pretty good to me, so I decided to pass along this funny altered version for those of you who need a good laugh. Enjoy….It’s going to be a long winter!

    (For best results, play the real song while reading/singing along below)

    Every time I wanna look for the treasure
    All these lines in the poem get unclearer
    The thrills not gone
    I went high, hiked dusk to dawn
    Isn’t this the way?
    Everybody’s solved the clues or so they say!

    But I know nobody knows
    Where its hid or if the blaze glows
    I know it’s everything Fenn
    You got to prove you know where he’s been

    Half my days
    On the blogs, trolling pages
    Live and learn from fools and
    From sages
    They know what’s true, no
    All the gold hasn’t come back with you!

    Search with me, search through the years
    Search through the laughter, search through the tears
    Search with me, not just for today
    Maybe tomorrow, a good solve will take it away

    Yeah, search with me, search through the years
    Search through the laughter, search through the tears
    Search with me, not just for today
    Maybe tomorrow, a good solve will take it away

    Search on
    Search on
    Search on
    Search until your dreams come true
    Search on
    Search on
    Search on
    Search until your dreams come true
    Search on
    Search on
    Search on
    Search on
    Search on
    Search on
    Search on

    Search with me, search through the years
    Search through the laughter, search through the tears
    Search with me, not just for today
    Maybe tomorrow, a good solve will take it away

    Search with me, search through the years
    Search through the laughter, search through the tears
    Search with me, not just for today
    Maybe tomorrow, a good solve will take it away

  20. TY Bur. I have never learned to cut and paste. Yes, my grandkids think I am a dinosaur. I may ask them to teach me. Have a fruitful winter and let’s get the bracelet back to its owner. P

    • No problem Paulette, my granddaughter teaches me stuff and she’s only six.

      Have a good winter too.

  21. I think Forrest would have his heart do a flip flop if he seen his friend Suzanne Somers lastest photo. (Hint – it’s her 73rd birthday and she has on her birthday suit).

    Bet you looked Forrest, oh and why not.


    There is also a “hint” in Forrest write up when he went and visited her at her home, here on hoD.

    • Bur;

      I remember reading the story about Shiloh flying Forrest there, and the trip up to her house, but I can not find it. When I type in Sommers or “visit to Sommer’s home” – I get nothing that rings a bell. Can you help direct me? Thanks – JDA

      • Suzanne and Alan’s house and property, including the outdoor bathtub, is for sale. Even if I found the TC it would not be remotely affordable.

        • If you find the TC, it’s yours. You don’t have to pay for it after
          the find. Yes, this is all part of my opinion.

  22. It’s that time of the year. Have all the webcams ready on my home page so I can monitor snowfall at and all around my search area. Right now no snow on the ground but tonight will be a different story. It’s kind of nice to watch snow falling since not much of any ever falls here.

    It’s time to start reviewing all I have and what Forrest has been putting out, to see what I might have missed in locating that blaze for next search season. Let’s see what the next scrapbooks will be, hoping they are helpful.


    • There sure have been a lot of SB’s Bur. I love reading them, and looking for gems within. Not sure I see all of the gems, but I try. Lots to go over during the winter recess. As you say, ” Let’s see what the next scrapbooks will be, hoping they are helpful.” Stay warm and safe Bur – until next time – JDA

      • JDA,

        You need to stay warm, your where it’s cold. I put on a jacket maybe 5 times in the winter here. Now being safe that’s something I always try to be but you know.

        Thanks JDA,

  23. Bur,JDA here we are collecting info and Major Fenn is working Dal 24/7. Thank you Dal and Forrest for all you are sharing. Love the stories.P

    • Paulette,
      I believe most of these scrapbooks are pre-written from days past. I think Forrest wants these stories out so people will know more of his life and time might be getting short. Plus he is proud of all he has done throughout his life. All we can do is enjoy and see if there are hints scattered in them somewhere, which I see are just confirmations for my solves.

      Good luck and grab all the info you can.

  24. I have same thoughts .FF is such a great mentor. My own grandfather, who passed at 105, is still #1 with me though. Have a productive season. P

  25. Hi! Here is an image of something (two things, actually) I found while searching. What do you think? The larger of the two was sticking up out of the ground (a good portion of the twisted end was stuck in the ground), oriented to match a nearby shrub and a tree a bit further on down the “path”. The area where I found these would fit with clues 7-8 in the poem, namely “there’ll be no paddle up your creek / but heavy loads and water high”.

    The wire used isn’t something I noticed elsewhere in the area (but there’s a decent amount of “trash” around, and it’d be very easy to miss). It’s not fence wire (AFAIK, it seems too thick for that but I could be wrong), there are no barbs, and the tips are square-cut so the strands didn’t tear off of anything else, at least that I can see. The twisted end that was stuck in the ground has a decent amount of rust on it. Who knows, maybe someone who reads this blog left it as a souvenir? If you did, I think they’re kinda neat. They also fit somewhat with the kinds of things Forrest himself makes from found objects.

    Anyways, perhaps these were made by him, or some other random person. SB207 made me wonder with the reference to “doodlebugs”, but who knows. My exploration in the area has thus far come up empty, despite trying a number of different ideas. I emailed this pic to Forrest, but out of respect for his time I’ll refrain and instead share what I’ve sent him with the community. Besides, more heads is always better.


  26. What if “cold’” means frosty means cola means grapette means 6 as in 6 fl oz.
    what if alone means 1
    Or iwhat if Not far but to far means 22

    What if marvel gaze means you are looking at something hot like superman’s hot melting gaze
    Or what if it means a gaze hotter than fire or hotter than lazer or are you looking through park binoculars? Or are you looking at a stone marvel like superhero type staue or rock that looks like a dragon or monster like Orb?

    Just thinking here about what ifs……

    • What if ‘cold‘ means ‘bare’ as on the same thesaurus page above?
      Just thinking here.

  27. One of my favorite what if’s –
    If seven maids with seven mops
    Swept it for half a year
    Do you suppose, the Walrus said
    That they could get it clear?
    I doubt it, said the Carpenter
    And shed a bitter tear.

  28. Sunday at 10pm there had been 19,716 unique viewers on the blog…of those
    12,546 visited Peggy’s Birthday Ad
    12,343 visited the scrapbook index
    11,799 visited Frankie and Johnny
    1,467 visited Bitburg

    My question is…What the heck were the other 7,000+ unique visitors looking at if not the latest scrapbooks??

    The top countries that these 19,716 viewers were from are:
    Saudia Arabia

    Saudia Arabia??? Things must be tougher in the oil industry than I imagined…

  29. “My girl, my girl, where will you go?
    I’m going where the cold wind blows
    In the pines, in the pines where the sun don’t ever shine
    I would shiver the whole night through”

    Just waiting.

    • Yes I watched Expedition Unknown. The Story was rich and fun but the peridot is only worth a small amount maybe $100. Plus
      These hunts are a huge effort for a small payout. It was a nice story.

      • There is more than one kind of peridot. My daughter favorite rock.
        Not everything is gold or diamonds. There’s supposed to be a quartz necklace too.!!

    • thanks for that link to story, I love that Artist’s work. very cool… the best part is Artist pointing out the word Boston in the painting… while everyone is slapping themselves in the head, really fun, Strangely, the finder’s interpretation of several of the clues were wrong?

      including Columbus, so how in the world did he get from that statue to five neighborhoods away is just really wild, maybe never know the actual interpretation. well I guess one can work backwards from home plate to see, maybe someone will.

      (although he importantly got several clues correct, placing him near Paul Revere’s house, and others to get Boston correct, good thing there were more than one)

      confirmation bias… a wonderful thing… where every hint points to one’s solution 🙂

      • Those who focus on the value Are missing the point Writis. If this story doesn’t stir something in your soul then you are not a true treasure hunter.
        I noted the errors too. And some of the actual clues even seem a bit contrived. It just goes to show that all of your facts don’t have to be right to guide you to the right place.

  30. Expedition Unknown aired the Forrest Fenn Treasure Hunt segment again on Wednesday night…
    I’d just like to remind folks that that segment was filmed years ago and since then Forrest has ruled out the Rio Grande gorge as a possible location for the chest…
    And this time of year is no time for the unprepared or the inexperienced to be walking around in the mountains where a cell phone won’t work…Stay Safe!

    The mountains control their own conditions and humans cannot out-think the weather…

    • pardon my Social media lack of savvy, but is there just one Expedition Unknown about ff hunt? seems like about 100,000 or more people would be willing to lead that host down bottomless rabbit holes.

  31. Yes. The hair color or eye color is wrong too, if I’m imagining the stamp you are referring too correctly. If the blaze is a color I would guess it’s red. Do Not Touch. I think it’s time I read TTOTC for the 937th time.

    • Copper,
      Not sure we are looking at the same thing. There is no color of hair or eyes. The little boy in the picture is black and white and the “stamp” is just a tiny piece on the right side. Look at the inside front cover spread.

      • @geysergirl & copper,
        That sliver of stamp showing is purple and resembles a soldiers gun. Do you think it’s possible the blaze could be one of Forrest’s Vietnam medals…Purple Heart??

  32. IMDB says that the new “Forrest’s Treasure” TV pilot (or movie?) is in post production and scheduled for release on November 15th.
    From what I’ve researched, it looks like a low budget mess that has nothing at all to do with Mr Fenn’s actual treasure hunt.
    There is a fundraising page for anyone interested in donating to this project:

    • Note: This movie is not affiliated with the pending Forrest’s Treasure FOX TV series project.

  33. Dal, you’re in great company. When typing in “DAL” into google search engine…

    The two TOP hits are Dallas Cowboys & Dal Neitzel.
    I guess that works just right for Forrest.

  34. As I remember all of our brave men and women who have given their bodies, minds and lives for our freedom I am always grateful and saddened. Thank you Major Fenn for all you have given.

  35. Dal, Forrest, Dad,
    Today we celebrate the sacrifice of every veteran. Thank you for your service to this country. We honor you, both veterans and active service members…our nations heroes.

  36. Dal – I have a question for you.
    Way back when, one of the rules of being on your site was that we did not discuss religion, quote the bible, make references to God or Jesus. I even got reminded of this when I was in a conversation with another poster (who is no longer commenting on HOD).

    Can you tell me what has changed? Did the rules change?
    I see many many posts now that reference religion, the bible and God.
    Did you have a change of heart?

    Please don’t take offense at my question.
    I meant no disrespect to you by asking.

    • Couple of things wwwa…
      1. What I don’t want on this blog is political or religious discussions…That’s someone else’s blog…this one is about the chase. That being said, the occasional relevant bible reference or the occasional mention of a politician is not necessarily grounds for expulsion if it relates to the topic at hand…and does not incite political or religious discussions…
      2. Please understand that although I do read every comment that appears in moderation, I do not read every comment from trusted folks who are not in moderation…I just don’t have time to monitor EVERYTHING on the blog. So…occasionally someone trusted posts a comment that I would have tossed but I didn’t see it. That comment might stay posted til someone points it out to me and sometimes I never see it or hear about it and it just stays…
      AND, like almost everyone, some moments I am less tolerant than others…
      Although I try, I cannot claim an always even-handed application of the rules. I apologize for that…
      and for not seeing every digression of every commenter…
      Some times commenters test all the rules and push all my buttons…and sometimes everyone is an award winning model commenter…

      But tell me WWWA…what did you see that I missed?

      • Dal,

        Today I posted on the “cutest pet” a passage from Isaiah (Old Testament) that I thought might have been linked to a previous SB. That might be what wwwa is referring to.

        If I remember correctly, Sheriff Billy was posting thoughts about how part of the Chase had to do with some scriptures. Maybe he got booted for it because I haven’t seen him around since.

        Please delete it if it’s a problem. I apologize. It was just a thought. I was working on the Faith angle. Again, I do apologize.


        • BG-
          Sheriff Billy would not stop with his religious interpretations after numerous requests from me, so he ended up in moderation and when I continued to disallow his religion themed comments he finally left. Unless he took on a new identity Sheriff Billy has not returned.

          • Dal,
            Some day I’ll figure out right from wrong.

            Please delete my post. No hard feelings. Again i apologize.


  37. Thank you Dal for that honest gracious response.
    I was not insinuating that you missed something, just wanted to understand more clearly where the edge was.

  38. Dal – ByGeorge:
    Didn’t mean to open up a can of worms here. Nor do I want religion to become a debated topic here on this site. I was not pointing a finger at anyone or any particular post. I merely wanted to clarify whether I was able to mention something that might have a “religious” basis. Perhaps I went about it in the wrong way by even asking the question but I do see an “evolution of thought” happening with the Chase.

    • wwwa,

      No worries. I just wanted Dal to know that I posted something per se because I have seen many SB’s that could lean that way.

      I just think Faith is a key word and I was applying that to Willy, standing on a dishwasher.

      If you’re born twice that just sounds like you were born again and….never mind. It’s all good. Happy birthday Mom….Love ya!


  39. As the year wraps up and I reflect on the comments and interactions of searchers along with the vibes of some of Forrest’s SB’s/FGM’s BB, part of me wishes that there was another 6 questions of something similar to get Forrest’s insights into the state of the chase. I know that I’m not alone with thinking that someone could be close.

    If Forrest came out and said that no one has been any closer than before (that’s a bit subjective as “within 200’ can mean they were 5’ away”) people would more than likely continue on as normal. If Forrest came one and said that someone was right on top of it or they were within feet of it (assuming that someone was) the community would explode lol.

  40. As winter approaches, for me, the next few months will be fixated on “you can’t disregard any of the nouns” (perhaps not an exact quote but close)

  41. In TFTW, one of the chapters is “treasures galore” (I may have goofed regarding

    I think there may be a very minor hint in the name of that chapter. And speaking of
    names, one I am quite familiar with starts with “Gold”. As always, part of my opinion.

  42. Only two days left to enter a photo of your cutie-pie pet in the Cutest Pet contest…

    You can also peruse the 8 pages of photos of pretty cute pets…
    I’ve met some of the searchers who have submitted photos and I have to say that so far none of the pets look much like their owners…at least not the ones I have met…on the other hand I have not seen Iron Will’s pet yet…

  43. I know most of you are familiar with me posting on the poetry page, but believe it or not, yes I have been working on the poem too, along with writing poetry. Here are a few things I’ve noticed about the recent flurry of scrapbooks. Am I seeing double or is there really something to it?
    I see a lot of pairing (doubles) within them… for an example below are just a few I’ve noticed…

    SB 227- Beowulf paired with Saddam Hussein.

    SB 228- Nicolai Fechin painting of wife, a pair of birthday parties each year for Alexandra .

    SB 229- nothing found here.. I’m sure I missed something.

    SB 230- buffalo nickel shows both sides. Indian and buffalo paired to create the coin.

    SB 231- Yazzi Dolls, pair of X’s. One on doll 2nd from left, one on doll 2nd from right. (Pair of X’s)

    SB 232- holster paired with old army gun.

    SB 233- at San Lazaro. A pair of containers with corn in them.

    SB 234- 1st edition book paired with a painting in his gallery.

    SB 235- bobcat paired with domestic cat.. therefore (Bobby McGee).

    I used the last few scrapbooks to make my point. Does it mean anything or not? I have no idea. You decide….
    have a great evening everyone…. I’m going back to where my thoughts are more comfortable (The Poetry Page)…. until next time… see ya

  44. I hope this is where this belongs. (Dal let me know if not.I know you will! LOL!) But I keep thinking about some searchers beliefs that the treasure “has or is about to” be found. I for one have no strong belief either way, and until Forrest states otherwise, it’s business as usual. And everything below is of course, IMHO.

    But what those “treasure is found” statements have evoked in me is what does this whole “chase” really mean? What if it has been found? Now what. This all just comes to an abrupt end? Game over? I sure hope not!

    To me, it’s really true, the treasure is just an abbreviation! Now don’t get me wrong, who wouldn’t love to find Indulgence. But that made me think about what ARE the reasons most of us are all here. And I believe it’s little bit of all of these. Just different percentages:

    The Challenge…..Thinkers
    The Bragging Rights….Peacocks
    The Indulgence……Dreamers

    But the most important one (again IMO) is Forrest Fenn. The man that many of us have never met, yet thru his sharing of his beautifully written memoirs, seem to feel a deep connection to.

    I hope that long after that treasure is found, he continues to keep us entertained with more SBs. They are such a joy to read. That this group continues to enjoy thought provoking conversation. That his life continues to inspire us to do something more with our own.

    Is the treasure found? Perhaps. But Forrest, don’t you dare quit writing!

    • Geysergirl;

      Please keep in mind that Forrest is 89 years old. With age, stamina dwindles. At 76 years old, I no longer have the stamina I had five years ago – I hate to imagine where I will be as I approach 80, and then 85, and then 90. It tires me out just thinking about it.

      Were Forrest to proclaim tomorrow that he is “Retiring” from the chase, I would salute him and thank him for his service to his army of searchers, and then wish him well in a well earned retirement, and never (not even for a second) would I begrudge his exit from the Chase. JMO – JDA

      • Of course JDA! I didn’t mean it in that respect. Just meant that if the treasure is found and he’s still enjoying himself, no need to think everyone would not want to hear his stories. I would totally respect his wishes to retire if that is what he wanted.

  45. I’m still yhinking riches might mean money
    If so, what if canyon means “chase” like the synonyms here

    If so could chse mean
    Or Salmon
    Or Portland

    Portland also signifies port or ‘window’

    Portland, Colorado?
    Portland creek?

    Salmon ruins?
    Slamon west fork?


    I somewhat personally believe that 10,000, 100, 50, 5 10, penny, dime, quarter etc. means ‘something’ in the poem. But I dont advise others to ”buy” it. Wink
    Just thinking here.

    • If alone means 1
      If warm means washing and that means washington as on the Doolar bill =1
      And if canyon= chase (synonym of canyon) = 10,000 (Chase on $)
      Then 111. might mean 111 meridian?

      And if so, what are the other numbers using new/old riches/money?

      Again, Just thinking of odds and ends concerning synonyms and or definitions of words throughout the poem and if they relate to some kind of ‘key’ to a specific place.

  46. I didn’t know where this should go, so figured this might be the best place for it.

    I’m one of the believers that the treasure lies somewhere near, or on the Madison. When I was there I spent time walking and sitting, listening to the sound of the river flowing. I couldn’t help but feel a sense of peace and serenity near these waters. I promised I wouldn’t email Forrest again unless I found indulgence. So, I’m placing this message here in hopes that maybe Mr Fenn might see it.

    Today, I took my 4 and 3-year-old to see Frozen II and this song was in it. I couldn’t help but think of the Madison River and all the memories it must hold for him. Here are the lyrics:

    “Where the north wind meets the sea
    There’s a river full of memory
    Sleep, my darling, safe and sound
    For in this river all is found

    In her waters, deep and true
    Lie the answers and a path for you
    Dive down deep into her sound
    But not too far, or you’ll be drowned

    Yes, she will sing to those who hear
    And in her song all magic flows
    But can you brave what you most fear
    Can you face what the river knows

    Where the north wind meets the sea
    There’s a mother full of memory
    Come, my darling, homeward bound
    When all is lost, then all is found.”

  47. Just a general question:

    I missed the conversations about a “lead searcher” Someone told me FF was emailed a photograph of the place he hid it but never heard back from the individual. Did this happen? Where can I read what he said, exactly?


  48. Sean, I’m not the most seasoned searcher here, but to my limited knowledge, I don’t believe any of that is true. But I could be wrong.

  49. So… I tripped, and fell down a rabbit hole again. Here’s the cornucopia of observations:

    CK to all four EYED – KEY LYCC – leave my cold chest
    Minus the KEYS & scrambled to “oldest weave HH” – Ojo De Dios
    earth water fire air – ORE LAND WIND EYED

    Also scrambled with CK words, & got: Loves heated teepee stew, ahh

    CK also could mean Color Key.

    And when I found crazy coincidences to Kryptos, I crawled out.

  50. “The event that Americans commonly call the “First Thanksgiving” was celebrated by the Pilgrims after their first harvest in the New World in October 1621. This feast lasted three days, and – as recounted by attendee Edward Winslow — it was attended by 90 Native Americans and 53 Pilgrims.”

    Happy Thanksgiving all! We have so much to be thankful for! A special thanks to Dal and Forrest for all the dedication and time that goes into making this forum possible. It does not go unappreciated.

    PS Dal. I saw recently that one of my posts was deleted. I understand, but please know I meant no disrespect. You, my friend, have to make some tough decisions. The point was taken….all good!

  51. A preacher told this story but I thought it was very funny.

    A man and wife, both 60 years old find a bottle at the beach. A genie pops out and says he will grant each of them one wish.

    The wife says “I want to travel around the world. Please grant my husband and I the resources and means to do so”. “Your wish is granted” said the Genie.

    The husband says “Well, if were going to travel the world together, I want a wife that is 30 years younger than me”. “Are you sure”? asks the Genie. The man says “Yes, I’m sure”. “Your wish is granted” said the Genie.

    Poof! The man was now 90 years old.

    Happy Thanksgiving everyone!!

    • Sparrow,

      LAUGHING MY FOOL HEAD OFF!!!! I sure needed a good laugh….thank you! My wife enjoyed it and my daughter is ROFLAO.

      And happy Thanksgiving to you and the rest of the Fenn Chase Community and to those less fortunate.


  52. As always, this entire message is part of my opinion.

    FF talked about finding the grave of a French soldier. This reminds me of a poem, in French,
    from a French poet by the name of Jacques Pre’vert (1900-1977). The poem’s name is
    “Barbara”. In part, it reads

    “. . . il pleuvait sans cesse sur Brest . . .”

  53. Blue Fox and Warlock: short reply here to your query on SB 243 since the answer is off-topic: I suspect it was a typo of AOC — the initials of the junior U.S. Representative from New York (Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez).

    • Possible. That was also my first thought. Then again, maybe not. I’d still like clarification from the OP, especially since Warlock brings my name up in his comment, and I am nonplussed. My interjection into the circular argument was an attempt to bring closure to the loggerheads. It seems to have worked.

      • This is confirmed in 243 by Paulette (the OP). She was definitely not referring to someone named Oliver.
        Posting here so as not to clutter 243.

        • Thanks Ronald. Didn’t mean to cause all this confusion. I, also, was making an attempt to stop the back and forth fruitless discussion on such a beautiful scrapbook. It was about a Man and his loss. The rep. from NY is the aoc that I referred too. Logic and illogic can’t communicate IMHO. P

          • Thanks. I hope it isn’t deleted. There’s didactic value in the arc of the dialogue, even if off topic.

    • Thanks for the link. Bronson did a good job with the relaxed interview and asked some atypical questions that it appears Forrest appreciated.

    • Appreciated the interview – always enjoy hearing Forrest’s voice and listening to his words. Imagination, logic, and confidence – sounds like he had a mighty strong ego, which is what it takes to make it in life.

      Oh – coffee is ready, I must go….

    • I think this has just become my favorite interview! Bronson is so genuine in his questions and Forrest seemed to be enjoying himself.

      Dal thank you for that. And I’ve said it before, I am so envious of your personal relationship with Forrest. Consider yourself extremely fortunate to know such a wonderful human being!

      I love your stories Forrest! You are the Grandfather I never really had. <3

    • Thanks, Dal. Great interview. It’s always great to see or hear from Forrest first hand. When are you going to release your interviews with Forrest? Anything interesting there?

      • Blue-
        I have edited two…The scrapbooks kept me busy and I put down a hardwood floor in the house and that took a lot of time…excuses…I got a million of them…lol…

        I hope to sit down and get those interviews done soon…
        I honestly believe I will post them before Christmas…

        Keeping various things crossed…

    • That part about ‘knowing’ of a place he was at and being all alone gave me goosebumps. Places like that indeed are hard to find.

  54. Wow….Dal….thanx for that link….a real treat and a in-depth overview of the life and times of ff.Hope others get to hear it.

  55. That was the most enjoyable, pure, Forrest interview I’ve listened to so far. Bronson was cool, and I loved his gift of a Widow’s Mite.

    • meBigGuy – Ditto. And William Butler Yeats would say to give the ‘Fool’ the four pennies he kept asking for, in that play he wrote, “The Hourglass”. The ‘Wise Man’ finally got ‘IT’, in the end.

      It’s ‘Time’, everyone. IMO.

      • I agree Lisa. But ‘Time’ for what? What do you do with the knowledge once you have it? How can you utilize it?

          • Then I’m with you 100%.

            Can I ask, What is your objection to testing immediacy?

            There is a new guy on 243. A self proclaimed outsider, although his avatar doesn’t match his proclamation.

            He has a question for f. I don’t think it is an unreasonable one. What do you say we help him ask it? Add a little mass to his wish.

          • AkB – In that great podcast interview above, Forrest mentioned unexpectedly finding that ancient arrowhead, while staring at a mortar, in the Saharan desert. And he mentioned throwing his watch he wore away. Layers upon layers of civilization, thinking they know the answers. I trust that Forrest will see that comment, in good time, and choose to answer it, or not. I have honored his ardent request not to email him for quite some time now.

          • I don’t think he needs more emails. But I do think he needs a sign from us all that we are willing to work together. I think he requires that we take a leap of faith.

            He’s not a mind reader after all, and what we are trying to do is ask that he removes a little bit of mystery in exchange for our understanding.

            But how can we ask him for something if no one is willing to honor his request. A simple one at that. That we find a way to work together.

            This is a way. It’s not the only way, but it shows promise and it is untested. And it don’t cost nothing to play.

            He’s already set his terms. Work together, and then we’ll see what happens, in time.

          • And that goes for everyone reading. I’m not just talking to you Lisa.

            We can see we need to work together. We only disagree as to the why.

            So let’s take a leap of faith, work together at any common goal that has the possibility of resulting in an immediate response, and see what happens.

            I’m not asking anyone to do push ups or anything. Just type a few words and hit post.

            I believe. I will work with you. I have questions too.

            Or how about we Peter Pan it:

            I do believe in magic, I do. I do.

        • AkB.. about a year and a half ago, I was invited to be part of the “Fenn 10″…a group that was organized by Aaron with the idea of sharing ideas, finding consensus, and ultimately finding the treasure. I loved the idea. We can be pretty isolated as treasure hunters and it appealed to me. I emailed Forrest, explained the concept, and asked him what he thought about a group approach to finding the treasure. He was adamantly opposed to the idea. He believed that if the treasure was found this way that there would be so many legal ramifications that it would ruin the lives of all the participants. He advised me to keep searching independently. I took his advice and am happy I did. That group, which was composed of some very smart people, has not found the treasure chest. This is just my own experience but if you are going to ask Forrest a “question”, the first question might be “what do you think of a group approach to finding the treasure”?

          • Sally Colorado, I also asked f the question about working together with others in the Chase. Got about the same answer as you got.

            But, his answer didn’t stop me from joining.

          • Great advice from Forrest! I totally agree! He is very savvy.
            It would be like buying s piece of art with a group and one person put in more $. Would splitting it up be easy? And maybe unfair.
            I’m a loner on my own treasure hunt. Even my closest friends have no idea what I am up too.

          • I don’t remember asking for help in finding the treasure. I’m not looking for help in finding the treasure.

            I’m looking for help to test theory’s regarding the treasure hunt.

            I do not believe I need help to find the treasure.

            But if I did, I’m pretty sure I’d go find a group regardless of whether or not my imaginary Fenn thought it was a good idea.

          • Another point Forrest made when advising me was that I shouldn’t give away my ideas. Even though he has no idea what my ideas are!! I have never emailed or discussed with Forrest any of my solutions to the riddle of his poem. With the exception of Cynthia’s video, where we were clearly searching in Yellowstone (that was for the adventure, I had already abandoned that solution), Forrest has never even known what state I search in. Nor do I think he has the slightest interest. It sounds like he has given the same idea to many folks, based on his life experience.

            AkB… I’m sorry but after reading your response I guess I have no clue as to what you are trying to accomplish. Honestly, I dont think any of us do. Maybe you need some rest.

          • Ok Sally. I hear, ya.

            I’ll be more clear. But first I have to put the kids in pjs. It’s bedtime in Kansas.

          • Thanks, Sally, for sharing your exchange with Forrest. I’m not surprised by his answer: he thinks like a chess player, looking several moves ahead and trying to anticipate issues that could crop up.

            Probably about the time you were invited, Aaron also asked me if I wanted to join. I very much like the guy, and enjoyed sharing a couple beers with him in San Diego last year, and talking Chase for a good hour and a half with a similarly dedicated individual. But I politely declined to join the Fenn10, with the explanation that I already had an end-to-end solution (not very different from my current one), and in any case preferred the personal battle of wits with Forrest to a group approach. In the end I’m convinced it will be a lone wolf that solves Forrest’s poem.

          • I think you’re right Zap. Only one person is going to find the thing. Only one person is going to decide what happens after.

            But that doesn’t mean that person can’t share the journey with the rest of us. And I think it is up to us, as a community, to help that person figure out how to do so.

            Not by giving up their solve, but by sharing the process.

            Imagine the finder, with a crew of people who share stories for a living, explaining the clues, opening a chat, in the moment, Boots on the Ground, going to get it.

            And we all get to go in spirit and watch in reality.

            I think that would be incredibly rewarding for everyone involved and it just might inspire someone to recreate the magic with their own individual flair.

            Then we could all go looking again, and again, again.

            There are a lot of incredibly bright people here on this blog, I don’t think it’s a big ask or incredibly difficult to follow through with something like that.

          • AkB;

            Question – How can one disclose the “Process” without giving away important elements of his/her solve?

            If I tell you HOW I nailed down my WWWsH, won’t I be giving away the most important part of my solve?

            Once you know what my WWWsH location is, isn’t it pretty easy to figure out my “Canyon Down”? etc?

            I have disclosed a number of elements that relate to a very few elements of my solve. NONE have been critical.

            Just curious – JDA

          • P.S. You say that you have solved the puzzle. Care to share YOUR process of how you solved YOUR WWWsH? Just askin’ – JDA

          • Sure JDA,

            My process is to research everything I can about The Chase in the winter months and in the summer I get in the car and go play.

            Sometimes I know where I am going, and some other times I know why.

            A lot of times I go just to go and see what I see when I get there.

            I don’t think you can know the path you are walking is the correct path until after you’ve already walked it and you don’t need to see the path to keep moving your feet.

            I don’t know about all the things that can be done by other people in the world, but I know that I can’t find anything unless I go out and look for it. Nothing has ever just come to me.

          • As I’ve said many times though, JDA. I wouldn’t give up my solve either, and I still like the way you Chase.

            In my mind, cooperation doesn’t just mean to help someone else find the treasure. I don’t want you to find it anymore than you want me to find it.

            But there are some questions we can have answered through cooperation that we can’t answer alone.

            I don’t take anyone with me when I go out either. I go alone. By myself. And I push as hard as I can because I love the challenge too.

            When I take my kid out, we play kids stuff and climb hills. We don’t treasure hunt together anymore because the way I do it is the way I always imagined myself doing it when I was a kid. It full of peril, and adrenaline, and terrifying at times.

            And I don’t feel bad about that. I, right now, am fulfilling a childhood dream. My kid will have his own and he’ll have to walk his own path when he finds it. But I’m determined to show him that you can shoot for the stars AND actually hit one.

          • Thanks for the response AkB. Your response is a bit confusing to me, but that is okay. You say that you research all winter – Then you say: “Sometimes I know where I am going, and some other times I know why.”

            Forrest has said to start at the beginning – WWWsH.
            If you can not find the correct WWWsH, you have nothing – therefore, I would think that you would have researched this aspect of the poem, and would know WHERE and maybe WHY your WWWsH is – and then go to it. But that is just me I guess, We each have our own way of solving the poem. JMO – JDA

          • That is exactly what Fenn said. And maybe that’s how he would do it.

            I am not Forrest Fenn. I have my own ways. And I say his way is awfully lofty. There are many places where Warm Waters Halt in the Rocky Mountains. Maybe he only recommended doing it that way until you found the start of The Chase. I have no idea what goes on over in his camp.

            Sometimes I think I have it all figured out only to get out there and realize I’ve got nothing. But I don’t go home when that happens. Its a very long drive for a day hike. Trust me. Sometimes I only know where I was supposed to go after I’ve already forgotten about where I was trying to get to.

            I don’t think I can explain it in words better than that, JDA. That’s why I have this desire in me to show it all, not tell it.

            It’s funny, because I’m supposed to be a writer. Went to college and everything.

            Yet here I sit, with no words. The only way to describe the things I’ve seen out there is to say that they are unbelievable.

            I am aware that this is not a good avenue of approach to try and convince anyone of anything. But it’s what I’ve got until I think of something better.

            Now I guess I’m waiting on an intervention from the creator. Wouldn’t that be divine?

            But I can open up my life to your scrutiny. I can tell you who I am and some of the things I’ve done. Maybe you’ll find we aren’t different at all JDA.

            This is not the first impossible thing I’ve ever done.

            And it’s pronounced HOOAH. We don’t use r’s in the Army.

          • One thing is for sure, JDA. No one has ever done this before.

            There is no right way. Everyone here is trying to write the book on how to get this thing done.

            We don’t even know if it’s possible yet. We can’t guess how it will end.

            But we can fight for our ending.

          • Your last sentence reminds me of a riddle I heard when I was a child:

            Railroad crossing, look out for the cars – can you spell that without any “r’s”? JDA

          • I like what zap said: “he thinks like a chess player…”
            I just imagine situation when big group of weak chess players want to play chess game against one but very strong player (chess grandmaster). The members of this group can discuss everything: next move, strategy etc.
            Question: who will win this game?
            My answer is: grandmaster and he/she will do it very soon.
            The idea of group approach in chase is similar to idea to join a group of weak chess players in game against grandmaster. In chase Forrest is the grandmaster. But even grandmaster can be overplayed by more strong grandmaster. But never by group of weak players (IMO).
            I prefer search alone and even if I read some solutions published by other searchers I will never go to these locations. I agree with JDA about possibility to share our solutions: you can’t be 100% sure that nobody will go to your site and start search there. I will not say even my search state (not even talk about WWWH, CD, the hoB etc.). However, I like to discuss the ideas about the blaze – it’s safe because it’s most likely final clue. I’m sure that if you have possibility to choose to know 1 from all 9 clues and you choose the blaze you will never found the chest (IMO). From Forrest we know that the hoB is most valuable clue. But WWWH is also valuable (and no one searcher will share his/her WWWH with other).

          • Andy,

            You read words like share and cooperate and immediately associate that with the treasure.

            How about this, I am not interested in sharing the treasure. I’m going to find it, give it to my wife, and then it will become her problem. You can fight her for it if you like.

            The treasure, in my mind, is a distraction. I’m poor, I’ve always been poor. I like it. I don’t want to change. My wife can be rich. My kids can be rich. I like it down in the mud. Keep your castles and knights and pawns.

            I am trying to unite the tribes. Organize our thoughts. I want to use the blog in which Fenn has chosen to interact with us on to interact with him back. Create one voice. Solidify ideas. Probe the unknown. I’m out of metaphors.

            You get me? You can’t have my solve. I don’t want yours. I don’t need to know what everyone else thinks the blaze is. I’m uninterested.

            I want to play the game. I want to play it with my internet friends. The winter game. Not the summer game.

            That game looks like this: We ask Fenn a question. See if he answers. Maybe he asks us a question. Maybe we all throw in our two cents. Maybe he’s able to create plans and ideas based on our responses.

            No different than doing market research. Maybe Fenn is using his voice, and this process, to engage with us and ask us our opinions about things in a mysterious and fun way. How could we ever know until we try?

          • Hi AkB,
            I like your idea to collect some questions for Forrest then vote for the best one and send it to Forrest. It is obviously that Forrest will never answer direct questions about TC location. But maybe he will answer some general. One question per month should not be too hard.
            Well, I see that it will be difficultly to create such “indirect” questions.
            One example: Forrest, did you saw flowers around TC hide site? Can you say what colours they were?
            Not sure about value of information if Forrest give us answer on this question.

          • @ A.k.B, TH:

            You wrote-> “Maybe he’s able to create plans and ideas based on our responses.”

            Forrest has been doing that for years now…..I believe he would consider it going out to the edge and determining the lay of the land.

            LOL!! He perfected that a very early age!!

            Good Luck to Ya, AkB….keep your line in the water and you’ll catch a big one 🙂 …….loco

          • I think your loco if you take it for granted that everyone believes that.

            I believe it. I’m as sure as sure can be without knowing the guy.

            But I’m not trying to convince myself.

          • Andy, when did F say hoB was a clue? I missed that one, please supply a link where f has said this. From what I know, f has only stated two clues. I may have missed it, but I don’t believe f has ever said that hoB is a clue.

          • Hi AkB: PDenver pretty much wrote what I was going to. If your goal here is to have a Q&A like conversation with Forrest, that has been ongoing for years on Jenny’s. And while Forrest indicated this past February 4th was the 7th and final annual Six Questions, he (so far) hasn’t closed the door on additional Q&As from searchers there as far as I know.

            He’s been pretty even-handed about providing “ATFs” both here and on Jenny’s, and since he’s unloaded quite a cache of recent SBs here on Dal’s, it wouldn’t surprise me if Forrest also planned to throw some content Jenny’s way. In fact, he already put up a long reply to Jenny’s recent question about the surprising deluge of Scrapbooks this fall.

            I suspect Forrest would be more inclined to answer non-Chase-related questions at this point. For instance, I think many would be curious to know what will become of all the research he’s done on the Taos artist colony, since he may have reached the point where he’s accepted that it’s a gossip book that he’s probably not going to finish. I’m curious to know more about the occasions he spent in Italy and North Africa. Did he ever ride a camel? Climb Vesuvius? Go to the pyramids at Giza? Visit Abu Simbel? He’s not a shy storyteller — but it seems many searchers are focused only on extracting information from him that they believe can help decipher his poem.

          • That pretty much sums it up Zap. Fenn has been adamant about not giving any more clues for quite some time. I’m fairly certain he has not had a change of mind in that regard. Some folks think everything he writes or says is hint laden… so be it. I believe that premise is plain foolish. Sure… his stories are interesting and give great insight as to how he operates and some things seem to be intentionally parallel to the Chase, but I think it is only intended to show folks a different way of looking at things. Good luck to anyone trying to pry extra extras from Fenn that will help them actually solve his poem. Ain’t happening…

      • They both were able to share a story. Although Forrest story is what people dialed in for I do believe. Thanks again for posting the link Dal. Now I need to research Places named Lybia in the Rocky mountains.

        • I listened to the podcast. Did anyone else who listened hear the part where Forrest talked about his retirement from the military and he mentioned that if he hadn’t retired, he would have had to work at the Pentagon, or something to that effect. What do you make of that? He’s only talked about flying and being a flying instructor, as far as I know, so why would he have to work at the Pentagon?

          • CKL-
            Fighter pilots typically have a much shorter time in the cockpit than multi-engine, multi-pilot planes. Your eyesight and physical health and reaction time must be impeccable. At between 40 and 45 most fighter pilots are facing the physical constraints of aging and most are done flying. They end up at desk jobs….management, administration design or engineering…

            Forrest had a magnificent evaluation after Vietnam. The AF wanted him to stay. They offered him a promotion. His reputation would most likely have meant a position of responsibility at someplace like the pentagon or possibly the academy.
            The Air Force was growing and changing at that time. Field grade officers were required to have advanced degrees. Colonel and above in most every service have a graduate degree… most generals/admirals have PhDs. The military has their own degree programs for folks to get their graduate degrees…but Forrest, without even a bachelor’s degree would have been an unlikely candidate for any significant or interesting assignment if he had stayed in. He knew that. His flying days in fighters were numbered. So he would have had a desk job somewhere, maybe the pentagon..the fun was over…

          • Dang Dal,

            I think that’s sadder than the Bippy thing… I didn’t know all that.

          • CKL – the podcast was great, offered new stories and perspective.

            Best laugh I’ve had in a while…
            FF’s Credentials: N.a.D.T

            And that’s what we, as his treasure hunters, are currently holding. LOL

          • CKL had a good one. He wants Fenn to write about his 50th birthday. He thinks he might get a few important numbers out of the deal.

            My question was about caviar. I say it looks gross and I don’t get why people eat it. I just want to know what it tastes like.

            I think we were waiting for more people to get on board before asking it.

            Do you have any suggestions?

          • I wonder if Forrest always wanted to be there when it’s found, and secondly I have wondered if he thought it was going to be found within a year. Where I have searched seems so simple like he mentions that it creeps me out the whole world isn’t,and hasn’t been just searching there.

          • I wonder the same thing sometimes Jason.

            Why you gotta be looking where I’m looking?

          • But seriously, Jason, float your idea over on 243 to CKL and Four Eyes.

            I’m up for asking whatever the majority of us think is a good idea. But I think we ought to do it soon if we are gonna do it.

            Maybe your willingness will spark a desire in others.

          • He might have already answered that one.

            I know there was something about smells and sounds that got twisted up in the scuttlebutt a while back.

            I think he had to clarify something about pinon nuts or something after people over analyzed his response.

          • I just have to say this. The whole ask Forrest a question to see if you get a response is a tainted experiment from the beginning. For Forrest to answer the question in any way, shape or form he has to be reading all of these replies. If he is reading all of these replies then he will know what you are trying to accomplish. So whether he answers in any way, shape or form will tell you nothing other than he may or may not be playing along just to mess with you. If you “think” he replies to your question in “code”, it still could just be your confirmation bias and therefore useless. It will tell you nothing about whether previous or future SB’s have had or will have hints. IMO.

          • Then I guess he has some incentive to play along Bro.

            And maybe he’ll be a little more willing to be just a little more cavalier in his response simply because you wrote that.

            We are looking for a proof of concept. Not the gun that shot Lincoln.

  56. in my humbel opinion, this recent flurry of scrapbooks is to point out the possibility that TTOTC is not a memoir. that the stories in TTOTC are made up stories. from the beginning of TTOTC up to the chapter My War For Me the stories crafted by FF are all hints to Buffalo Bill.
    My War For Me is probably all true and the rest of the book where he talks about he and Peggy running the art gallery. so put these two ideas together and you get….Buffalo Bill gallery or museum.
    then, with the poem in hand you visit the museum to find the chest. not the bronze box mind you, but the chest of the poem and then take it. as in photo.
    be sure to bring kids with you, as i believe this is essential to finding the correct chest.
    what would scrapbooks be without photos? just words.
    all in my opinion.

      • andrew, the buffalo bill museum houses five different museums so locating the correct chest would be a chalenge so forrest provided the line…”if you are brave and in the wood” to confirm you have photographed the correct chest. in my opinion.
        look up the definition of the word chest. a nine by nine cigar box (bronze box) does not fit the description. examples of a chest are steamer trunk, trunk, strongbox, hope chest, crate, and any LARGE wooden storage container which many of these can be found and taken at the buffalo bill museum. in my knowledge.

      • It might be.. Someone was posting under my name Spallies the other night… I almost think Wicket today might be an impostor as well… My apologies Wicket if I’m wrong……

      • AkB , you are entited to your opinion but the tame solution to the puzzle fit the bill quite nicely for Forrest’s purposes.
        i think.

    • Can’t believe you still believe that.
      I like your other name better.
      You fit the bill.

    • “…..there are some searchers who write Forrest several times each day…with nothing more than idle chit-chat. He told me that this has become quite tedious.”.

      As with Forrest, it seems that there is too much white noise?? 🙂

      Good Luck to ya, Lou Lee!!

      • I’m still around…. there’s just nothing earth shattering to respond to lately. The SB’s are new and fun to read but I don’t believe they are loaded with hints like some folks are inclined to think. I’ll stick with the research tools Fenn has indicated and keep refining what I have. I’m in it for the long haul…
        Jake posted a couple o’ days ago.

        • I’m glad to see you and Jake still posting. I agree that there hasn’t been as much to talk about lately.

          In the same vein I haven’t seen Seannm posting for a while, and his channel has had all of the content removed. Does anyone know if he’s still around?

        • Ya, Nothing earth shattering although some have figured it out.
          SB’s are great when Fenn peels off another onion skin layer of his life.
          When you work 2 good paying jobs, you tend to shift your time allocation, besides just hibernating without anything else to do and it shows in their writings.
          I ain’t missing a thing here!

          • It seems like everything has been said and discovered
            Already! Every Rabbit hole!
            Than you have the newer people making thier realizations and that has already been discovered long ago.
            Once in awhile someone has a good idea. But yes not much new.

          • Well…..
            The rabbit holes are infinite but the correct solve is finite.

            We were newbies once and thought somewhat like they did so we can’t be tooo hypocritical.

            There’s a big difference between -realization in your mind and -actualization in the field.

            Back to work.

          • Jake, One most important to me and all is the beautiful and insightful stories by forrest!
            No problem with the new searchers. Just a observation. They are just fine! Give it to a kid! Fresh eyes.

      • Hi Loco
        Not sure why you mention emailing Forrest? I’ve had good response in the dozen emails I sent him since 2012!
        I count him as a friend!
        What I was thinking about
        Was all the names that have gone away, as I see scrolling thru old scrapebook posts.

      • Thanks Loco!
        I don’t know what white noise is but I understand that Forrest has to deal with alot on the chase!
        Now people are trying to commercialize off the chase too. I wonder if he thought of all that when he created it.
        I’m sure it’s hard on a almost 90 year old. I hope people will leave him alone and give him a break.
        Yet he seems like he really does Love it too.
        It’s been a interesting decade.
        As we enter in the “20’s”
        I hope that indulgence will be found.
        I still believe I can find it.
        And Forrest can relax too.
        Best Wishes to all!

        • Lou Lee,

          You kind of hit the nail on the head with people trying to commercialize off Fenn’s chase. There were only a couple of straight forward blogs in the beginning of the chase like Dal’s and Jenny’s and a couple more. But it seems now all the ones who started here have spun-off to see if they can get more followers to their sites and sell things.
          As Lobo, Ken and Jake said all seems to be repeat from years in the past with comments.
          I’m enjoying these SB’s, so Forrest don’t stop. I might have to disagree about there not being hints in some, but that is my opinion.

          As for me the newbies make me smile, seeing how they strive to make themselves look like their on point. Heck I’m not sure i’ve ever been on point, but like to believe I’m more successful then when I first started.

          Good luck Lou Lee, and thanks for your comments, and for giving me a chance to stick my two cents in.


          • I hope some lucky searcher hurries up and finds the chest to stop people in their tracks from side profiting and acting like they run the show..This is Forrest Fenns rodeo.. Taking advantage of his kindness and acting as if it’s your game to control is just a disgrace and has tainted the essence of The thrill of the chase…

          • I couldn’t agree more Hazel Stone. But Fenn is a smart guy and he probably wonders how it took this long to get to this point with all the vultures circling.

            I have been called very naive at times, but I just choose to tune-out and ignore all the negative circumstances that can be created by the nature of the Chase. I know that doesn’t make it go away, but it helps me stay positive and on track. Just MO.

          • Don’t be too harsh. The websites and gameboards and advertising also helps increase the profile of The Chase.

            That’s new ideas, a larger crowd, more attention. It’s capitalism at it’s finest.

            If f didn’t want it to happen, he’d be in a good position to put a stop to it.

            And if someone else can use their imagination to make a buck and spread the good word, more power to them. It’ll only serve to help us all in the end, or it will fall on it’s face.

          • I was surprised to see the relicas of the chest being sold. After reading what Forrest said about the coins. Did he really approve these? I would be embarrassed asking Forrest to approve such a thing. Maybe he didn’t? Let alone sign this, approve that item, etc.

          • Correction: Replicas,
            That post to Bur.
            Thanks for the post
            Best Wishes to you and all who seek.

          • I don’t think there is much going on without his say so. I would bet that everyone who made a Chase related thing asked first and got his approval.

            I asked him once, if I could reproduce his poem if/when I ever wrote a book about my travels.

            It was one of the only responses I ever got from him and it was a resounding Yes.

            Now I just have to write a book…

          • Forrest said he did not want the chase commercialized. Maybe he has had a change of heart? Its possible.
            My concern is that the people commercializing it told people to leave Forrest alone!
            Right after they got the whole nutball!
            Seems they want him for themselves and act like the voice of the chase?
            Is someone out there the designated voice of the chase? Lol
            I have always had high respect for what Dal and Jenny have done! I trust these sources and find them reliable.
            Much respect!

          • With regards to Forrest approving merchandise to be sold, I get a sense its a classic case of, ” give someone an inch and they’ll take a mile” ….. No one knows how Forrest feels, so its a wait and see what comes to fruition scenario. I’m ok with people selling their wares. It’s when you think your a mouth piece, “ringleader” that doesn’t set well with me..twisting said comments from Forrest, withholding info to profit putting a deranged, ego driven, confusing twist to the chase is something that I did not sign up for.

  57. Hi Radawg and others!
    Good to hear from a few oldies! Or should I say veterans? Yes I was chased by bears and lived to tell!
    I’m still skirmish about bears. Last time I searched with 2 bear sprays straped to my chest and a flare. I heard in Russia they use flares that you just punch to set off. Trying to light it would take to long but I took anyway.
    I still think that Forrest may have not put indulgence near Brown Bear territory. Too dangerous.
    Thus “Put below the home of Brown” lol
    A shout out to all the new and old of this hunt!
    Find a treasure! In life.
    Best Regards, Lou Lee Belle

  58. Sally,

    From reading the comments in the scrapbooks, it looks to me like a lot of people believe there are hints in these scrapbooks. Some believe those hints are directed towards them personally.

    I tend to believe those people because I see hints too. In fact, in one scrapbook, someone said something to the effect of: I don’t know why f would give his email out to millions of people and invite them all to write to him if he didn’t want to play in the sandbox with all of his friends.

    The very next scrapbook Fenn wrote: “We were like two kids playing in an adult sized sandbox.”

    Seems to me that person was right. Fenn wants to play. But if we remain disorganized, we will never know beyond a reasonable doubt as a group that this reason is a contributing factor as to why the system of writing scrapbooks has been changed.

    And we all know something is different. Fenn himself got in the chat to clarify that he IS in fact writing some of these scrapbooks day of publication. This is unprecedented and it would be foolish to overlook it and the possibilities it brings.

    Another theory is that Fenn wants us all to work together for some reason. The question then becomes how do we do that? I’m not giving out my solve, I wouldn’t expect anyone else to either.

    So why not create a simple test? Seems to me that all we need to do is decide on a question, as a group, majority rules as to what that question will be, and see if he responds in the next scrapbook. Then we will have checked the teamwork box and the SB hint box in one go.

    It’s not a pay to play idea. It’s not even that creative. It’s simple. And if he does want to play, then he will, and if he doesn’t, he won’t. Either way, we get answers to questions.

    But can we work together? I have my doubts. I know for a fact that there are three people on SB 243 that have agreed on a question though. So there’s a start if you’d like to join the team.

  59. AkB,
    Many people have already published their solves but most folks don’t really listen. I understand that because I’m one who has a hard time diverting from my path. I don’t think Forrest wants to play, I think he wants it to “move forward.” So people can stop talking in code and have real discussion, perhaps visit the chest and see it, maybe even meet the finder and Forrest.

    And once this chest is found people will move on to another hunt. I’d predict that many of the relationships forged here, at this hunt, will grow stronger and really cement into the next one. Just a thought.

    I want to find that Beale treasure. And I want to start collecting so I can hide my own treasure some day. But I can’t seem to move on until this one is completed. Everyone is very committed, that’s a good thing….I think. I might actually get committed because I’m so committed….

    Anyway, maybe 2020 is the year that we all celebrate the find. I’ve got one last climb left in me!! Don’t you??!!

    • Copper, I hear you. When the snow melts, I’m hitting the trail as hard and as fast as I can because that’s when The Chase is the most fun for me.

      But I don’t want people to move on. I want The Chase to live forever. I want the world to take notice of how much fun we are having and I want Netflix or whoever it is that does things like that, to take it all to the next level. I want to go looking for Forrest Fenn’s treasure for the rest of my days. I just want to race you to a new location every once in a while.

      And the winter opens up opportunities that we just don’t have during the search season. Like an unexpected shift in the SB production.

      If all f wanted to do was tell us to be team players, then why feel the need to clarify how he is producing them? Why confront a searcher, in the chat, just to say exactly how he is doing a thing?

      The only logical conclusion I can come to is that he wants us to use that information in some manner. It’s an opportunity for us to do something about it. It’s a dare. To me, it’s my imaginary fenn come to tell me “Get your stuff together and maybe we can make some REAL magic happen.”

      And if I’m wrong, then what’s the harm? You feel a little foolish in a chat room full of adult treasure hunters? I don’t see a down side to group participation. It’s all upside or things simply stay the same. Zero risk.

        • Well heck Copper. I’m glad to hear that.

          You know, over on 243. There are three of us who are trying to do just that. One cat even posed a question which was seconded and thirded.

          Maybe you could fourthedit?

      • Come on Als. Just play with me. It’s not gonna hurt nothin’ and it’s free.

        Beale Schmeal. The Beale Cipher was a scam to sell books anyways. It’s gibberish.

        Come play The Thrill of the Chase with me. I want to see what we can make happen if we all work together. I don’t think a guy like Fenn could pass an opportunity like that up. He’s gonna want to play too.

        • AkB, do you know whether or not there’s ever been any discussion as to why the book is called “The Thrill of the Chase”?
          Forrest says something to the effect that ” for him, it’s always been the thrill of the chase.”, but what?
          Just curious as to whether I’ve missed some specific information or if anyone has an opinion.
          I’ve been known to be very much like Dory…terrible memory.

          • I am not certain of specific comments on this, but I believe it’s about the process of thinking and having to follow up with the inevitable ground searching to determine if oneself is correct. Whether the solve is right or wrong there is going to be a journey, and that’s my thrill of the chase.

          • Look up the word ‘chase’ in Webster’s dictionary. There are some interesting definitions to think over.

        • AkB . I share a lot of ideas but I work alone. I haven’t reached a dead end yet in my process and I’m still reading the signs along the way.

          • You don’t have to give up your solve Als. No strings attached.

            I just want you to go to 243 and say, “Alright. I’m game. Sign me up on that crazy train ole’ chap. Pip Pip.” Or you know, whatever the real Sherlock would say.

            I don’t need to know your process, and I’m not asking for any clue related ideas. Just looking to ask f a question or two on the public forum just to see if he talks back. Maybe that might open up opportunities for all of us.

          • AkB. I understand your request. But from what I can consolidate within the this SB publishing marathon; within them is a lot of coded A’s from comment Q’s already. There’s a lot of Ripley’s types of opinions on that potential within them. But I already see Q&A’s types in the SB’s. IMO .

            IMO .

          • I see them too Al. I see them being found by my treasure hunting friends too.

            I just want the non-believers to see the light. It’ll be that much more fun for everyone if they do. Cooperation through competition. We could teach the politicians a thing or two if we could manage the chaos.

            And I know thats just your opinion because you wrote your name at the top. People are gonna start wearing those three keys out at this rate. Landfills are overflowing with worn out I’s, M’s, and O’s.

          • AkB. I think this blog works well for all intents and purposes, in my opinion 🙂

            Ones intent and purpose on finding the chest, would have an influence on their reasons too.

            IMO. 🙂

          • I can. I won’t. For obvious reasons. But I believe I can convince any reasonable person beyond a reasonable doubt.

            And I’ll try to work out a deal with any person who’s public profile is worth more than a box of gold so that I could tell them and they could be the judge.

            You don’t happen to know Katy Perry do you?

            But for now, I’m asking in a hypothetical sense.

          • AkB. I get what you’re saying. The ‘beyond a reasonable doubt’ is probably the furthest in closeness one can achieve in this pursuit; without any concrete definitive proof. In this chase aspect, to achieve a personal level of beyond a reasonable doubt confidence , is a positive attainment to achieve . But that is only the peak in a best guess belief ;whilst lacking the black and white evidence of physical proof of truth.

            IMO .

          • I have physical proof as well Al.

            There is nothing in the poem or the book that says there is no physical proof. And I am here, telling you, that I’ve found some. I found it three years ago and it’s taken me all this time to puzzle it all out and gain enough confidence to tell that to anonymous strangers on the internet.

            If all I had was the poem, a map, and the book, I would not be confident.

          • Back to the hypothetical, if you believed me, and I get it’s a tall order and a big ask, but if, Would you play with me?

            Or would you quit?

          • AkB. My answer is no. The reason being is :that my own confidence in myself,devoid of arrogance, doesn’t mix with the need for such partnership endeavers. I would be oxymoronic within myself.


          • I think you misunderstand. I’m not looking for a partner.

            I mean to say, if you knew, beyond a reasonable doubt, someone knew where the treasure was, and your chances of getting there first went from good to nonexistent, would you think it’s all over and walk away?

            Or, would you stick around to help plan the finale?

          • In other words, are you personally only in it for the gold?

            Or, is the art and the mystery enticing enough to capture your attention until the box is produced?

          • AkB. Those concerns don’t enter my psyche. For fear of losing a race? Nah. I don’t thought walk that line belief in happenstance ; there’s only causal results through purposeful action.

            A person will find it on purpose. Everyone has equal chance . A race is between people that all know the destination. This Chase destination isn’t known untill the arrival at the find with evidence. To my understanding, there’s no proof yet where to start even, let alone where it ends.

            IMO .

          • Sounds to me like you are saying you are in it until the very very end.

            I was just curious. Call it, market research.

          • I’m in this chase for common reasons and specifically to finance an invention I’m working on. An invention of great benefit that’s beyond any financial procurement, something to be free for all and thats only possible without investors. That’s the gold ( money) part of it .

            The other is ,I like investigating/solving things that doentv involve dirty laundry.

            Forrest created a fantastic challenge. It’s a good test.


  60. Wow. Let that four letter word “work” get in the way, come back to catch up and my head is spinning.

    AkB – you’re like a volcanic eruption spewing hot lava everywhere! Lol! Some people are staring in disbelief, others are trying to cool it down, and most are just trying to get out of the way! I think I might be all three.

    Seriously though. I hear where you’re coming from. But I just don’t know how I feel about it. I see all sides. And if you want to know the truth, I think it’s time to go back and take another hard, long look at the poem.

    I love this forum for Fenn’s stories and all the feedback – good and bad. But sometimes for me, it just clutters up my tiny little pea brain.

    • So don’t work so hard Geyser. It’s supposed to be fun! I enjoy the excitement of it all. I like walking around feeling like I share in this little club with all of you.

      Now it seems like things are changing so fast all the time. New scrapbooks and new ideas are being flung around all over the place. No one could keep up. It’s too immediate. Information overload.

      I don’t see why Fenn would do it without a purpose in mind. What if it’s supposed to be a simple dialogue. Between us and him. And it only seems crazy because the ideas are flying around everywhere and he is simply imitating us. Showing us ourselves as he sees us. Like a feedback loop or something.

      What if we try to slow it down and organize ourselves. Maybe that simplifies things and he begins to address one idea at a time?

      Weren’t you one of the champions of the teamwork theory?

  61. I do believe in teamwork for theories, not solves. And I feel like that’s what is already being done here. The purpose of this forum. Maybe not all use it that way, but many do. IMO.

    But maybe I’m wrong and you’re right. In any event, it’s been a long day. Turning it in for the night. 🙂

    • I don’t want anybody’s solves. I don’t need to know what everyone thinks the blaze is.

      That is not my intention. Don’t do it even if you decide you want to later.

      • Sneaking in some comments before I have to get back to work. Sigh.

        AkB – I think you make some wonderful contributions to this cause and I know your intentions of creating a “work together group” is pure of heart. At least to me. My imaginative mind says yeah…..that would be awesome! But then my logical mind kicks in and I can think of a million reasons why that would be difficult at best. NOT impossible, but difficult. Heck my husband and I can’t even agree on what’s for dinner half the time! LOL! Just imagine if even just 10 people in this group are trying to come to an agreement on something.

        I also think that if anyone of us ask Forrest a question here, and many of us do, he will answer if he feels the need. And that is usually not very often.

        And on your comment above
        “Don’t do it even if you decide you want to later.”
        Well of course I can still “do it” if I decide to later. I’m a woman. I always have the right to change my mind! LOL All in fun. 🙂

        • Hahaha. Geyser. You working for my wife? I’ll double it!

          Difficult isn’t a reason not to try, it’s the best reason to try!

          Nothing worth doing is ever easy.

          Come play with me. It’s the 4th. Didn’t Fenn say something like use the force or the 1/4th or something like that?

          Jump in the sandbox and play The Thrill of the Chase with me and you can be the 4th to agree on the 4th of December on SB 243.

          I’ll even let you play with the coveted red race car shovel.

          • Geysergirl and AkB – You bring the red racecar shovel, and I’ll bring the 1963 Red Ferrari Lusso my Uncle restored. And, later, sold. In car races and treasure hunts, close doesn’t matter. Only in horseshoes and hand grenades, unfortunately.

            But the end of the 1966 Le Mans race might just be an exception:


            Saw “Ford v Ferrari” last night. Ken Miles took one for the team. Inspiring.

            I have a need…the need for SPEED!

            Still waiting for my ride at SUN to arrive from Mountain Home Air Force Base: that F-15E Strike Eagle pilot must have made a pit stop…

          • AkB –

            I think I remember you stating somewhere that you are in Kansas.

            I think I see Dorothy skipping down the yellow brick road picking up believers as she finds her way to the “Great Wizard.” She shares her journey with someone who needs a heart, someone who needs a brain, and someone who needs some courage – and for her, it’s wanting to find her way back “home.” A heart, a brain, and some courage…..good searching tools. Don’t you think?

            So where am I going with this. I think the moral of the story is everyone already had exactly what they thought they needed, but failed to recognize the fact. And maybe, just maybe, that is where we are in the Chase.

            I admire your determination in what you’re trying to do, but I think the Great Wizard sees and knows all. He’ll come out from behind that curtain with all his wisdom when he’s good and ready. I have complete faith in that. All IMO, of course.

            I may not be in your sandbox, but we are in the same park. 😉 See you at the swings!

          • Get out of my head Geysergirl!! How is it you know what I am thinking all the time?!?!?

            The only thing I’ll add to your metaphor is this:

            The Wizard was reluctant to come from behind the curtain. He was a lot of things to a lot of people and he was scared that he might ruin the magic.

            Dorothy had to walk over and physically remove the veil. Only then could the happy ending begin.

            I’m here to find the tin man, the lion, and the scarecrow. I want them to see the magic is theirs already. Then, together, we can coax the Wizard out from behind the curtain.

            But I’ll be ToTo if you want to be Dorothy. I don’t look very good in flats anyways… not that I’ve tried them on… in case your wondering.

          • Never forget. Forrest Fenn is just one man. He is fallible and he has his own doubts, whatever they are.

            Everyone’s happy ending is different and maybe he wants to please us all, although the majority is all anyone could ever hope for.

            BUT, I am 100% convinced that the themes and final resting place of the chest were always meant to be shared.

            It will have the most impact with immediacy. This story begs to be told from this point of view. Not after all the magic has disappeared. Not once it’s been found and the path is clear.

            I want to take someone out and show them what I’ve found. I want to see their face light up. And I want to take the final steps with a believer. And I want everyone else to watch so they’ll know it’s real and life changing and important.

          • Hi again AkB:

            “BUT, I am 100% convinced that the themes and final resting place of the chest were always meant to be shared.”

            I’m not as optimistic that Forrest shares your belief, and absent instructions within the chest (or any guidance from him personally), I’m opting to withhold judgment.

            “I want to take someone out and show them what I’ve found. I want to see their face light up. And I want to take the final steps with a believer. And I want everyone else to watch so they’ll know it’s real and life changing and important.”

            You seem to have convinced yourself that the treasure’s hiding place has some universal appeal that everyone will immediately recognize and appreciate. But what if the place is primarily special to Forrest for reasons that are personal to him? That’s not an unreasonable possibility after you read this MW Featured Question (8/19/2016):

            “Mr. Fenn, you have been quoted as saying the treasure chest is hidden in ‘A very special place.’ If a searcher should be fortunate enough to solve the poem, will he/she see the location as special place (by your definition) also, or will your reasoning be forever known only to you?”

            FF: “I don’t know how to answer your question BW. People are so different. A write from Manhattan came to see me. It was her first time out of the city. When I asked how she liked New Mexico she said, ‘There’s a sky,’ and she wasn’t kidding. At home she never thought to look up. She was thrilled when I showed her a cow. f”

          • AkB,

            I think I read somewhere that you are 100% sure you have solved the poem and will find the chest. It seems you are saying you want to take people with you to the final location and have the experience of finding it with you. But what if you are not correct, and you do not find the chest?
            Sure, the location may be amazing and fun for everyone to experience, but the only way to know for sure you are 100% correct in your solve, is for the ‘friend’ you are taking to experience it with you is Forrest Fenn himself (only he is certain where the treasure is located).

            That is quite an unlikely scenario…

          • Zap,

            Your what-ifs are based on the fact that I don’t know where I’m going.

            Even if the treasure isn’t where I think it is, there is still a place where I think it is. And I think simply the process of finding that place will have universal appeal if not the place itself.

            The Chase is art. IMO. A new kind. And it is interactive. Those interactions are the best part. That’s why I think the story needs to be told while it’s being found.

            If the real Forrest Fenn doesn’t agree then I’ll tell him he’s wrong. He’s not out looking for it, what does he know?

            But I have a feeling he meant it to be that way.

            I think when he says “You can remain anonymous.” He’s adding the asterisk *but it’s the cowards way out and I’ll call you chicken if you take it.

            But that’s what’s great about all this, right? We both start with the same materials, about the same man, we fill in the holes ourselves, and at the end of it we both have drastically different views about who the man is. It’s pretty cool.


  62. You know I just happen to come across a YouTube video that kind of reminds me of how I feel when i’m out in the woods looking for my “Adventure of a Lifetime”. Yep when I’m out there searching “I can feel my heartbeat”.
    Yes, that’s me in this video and I see a few of you old timers there too.



    • It’s winter time have a little fun guys and girls. To many are being very serious here lately. Do sometime to make us smile, Forrest does….


  63. Imagine the archeologists of the future. Working hard in the sun, excavating I after I, M after M, O after O!

    Then the voice over starts;

    “In ancient times, somewhere around the turn of the 21st Century, the people of the world held a great reverence for these three simple letters, the meaning of which, has been lost to time. Scientists can only guess as to what exactly they were typing, but they are all in agreement, these letters held a special significance to the late, great treasure hunters of yesteryear.”


      • Some ancient Fenn theorists believe the letters were in reference to the word “mio”, which stood for “mine”. A theory which is reinforced by the main stream belief that each searcher guarded their solves with relish and zeal. Only offering vague or often encrypted messages to other searchers they felt were “in the know.”

  64. I had to laugh this morning. I had a fax from a client this morning and on the bottom of of the coversheet was the quote: “I’m your huckleberry.” – Doc Holliday

    Seems like no matter which way I turn, I get slapped in the face.
    My head is spinning.

  65. As the winter unfolds her petticoat and the beasties take to hibernation this can be a great time of reflection on those things that are important.

    Of recent my brother directed me to a youtube video.

    It has parallels evident to The Thrill Of The Chase.
    Being a kid is easy….growing old takes snuff.

    If you get a turn…..THE IMPORTANT PLACES.

  66. why is it that these guys/gals that get the “beyond a reasonable doubt” or the “100% sure” itch… always get it at the beginning of winter? so we have to put up with the, “i know” posts for 6 months…

    why don’t they ever get that itch in the spring so there are far less of those posts to skip over 🙂

    I guess that would be rhetorical as only that type would do it when it takes the longest before they can be backgrounded.

    never occurred to them that it’s been repeated many times every year as long as there has been the chase I imagine.

    • You said it Writis. I really hate that too.

      No one who was ever passionate about anything has ever wanted to talk about it before and anyone who is anyone would sulk silently on their own until they received the chest. Everyone should always let every opportunity pass them by and no one has ever accomplished anything after someone else has tried and failed.

      You can’t have confidence in yourself. No one can. It’s all just smoke and mirrors.


      • And above all else, no matter what, never in a million years, would someone figure out where the chest is and wait to go get it.

        That’s never going to happen. There’d be no possible opportunity for anything else, ever, other than simply rushing head long into a thing without thinking it over first. Especially by someone who is smart enough to figure out how The Chase worked in the first place.

        A person that smart would know for certain that there is no room for cooperation among competitors who seek the same finite resources. After all, there is no way to profit from The Chase unless you find the chest.

        Everyone with a website full of advertisements or board games on the market knows that.

  67. I hope Forrest will give this Dave H. person what he deserves for bothering him and the courts with his bogus claims. He should have to end up paying Forrest’s court costs and compensation for harassment. Maybe that will send a message to others who might think of suing for false reasons. The only reason I see to sue someone in this chase is if they try to harm you or your family in any way, hack into your computer, or try to stop you from retrieving the chest. My prayers are with you Forrest. It’s always very upsetting to get court papers and have to address them–let alone when they are as idiotic as this.

    • Blue Fox, Just read the article in the Santa Fe New Mexican Paper dated 12-3-19 under most popular articles. Really!!!

        • Thank you for the link, Dal. My husband read about the ordeal in The Denver Post this morning. We’re both irritated about this filing.

          • What a bunch of BS. If you can’t figure it out – try again, don’t sue. Bah Humbug – JDA

          • Well folks I now have an account with The Santa Fe New Mexican. I don’t even have an account with my local newspaper!! They will rue the day they messed with my love for treasure hunting.

          • I don’t think that the filing of the lawsuit is worth a newspaper article anywhere. So I’m irritated with that
            newspaper, as well as any others that reported the filing.

            I hope that there aren’t “copycat” filings. This whole thing reminds me of a “bigger, long-lasting news story” that is
            also being perpetuated by a bunch of unhappy whiners/
            losers. All in my opinion.

        • Sends a bad message to anyone who may go to Colorado, ironically they have actual treasure laws in that state.

        • The searcher community should file a class action lawsuit against Mr. Hanson.
          If his lawsuit forces Forrest to produce and disclose the chest location. Then Mr. Hanson should be held accountable for his legal action, requiring Mr. Hanson to pay monetary compensation to the searcher community, for prematurely ending the chase and making our efforts null and void.
          In my opinion of course.

        • Sounds like he just wants the 1.5 million dollars but doesn’t want to work or think about it…. heck, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had to tell myself that my solve was wrong…. to think that Forrest misled him on purpose is absurd, especially to benefit someone else…. really?

          I wonder what the courts would think if 300,000 or so searchers showed up to speak on Forrest’s behalf ?

          Sue, sue ,sue is the only thing some people think of…. heck, the finder of the chest will probably have to deal with it too….. if I was to find it, I say bring it on!!!!!!!!

          Ok, I’ve vented on the subject… I feel much better now… Forrest, we’re all behind you … thank you for the chase of a lifetime…

          Until next time… see ya

          • A Sore loser driven by
            “get rich quick” greed.

            I hope a wise judge throws it out and won’t hear the case.

            Sorry for the Fenn’s if they have to deal with another nut case.

            Makes me nervous for the one who solves and legitimately finds the treasure. You’d want to remain completely anonymous.

        • I don’t think his compliant holds water. Where is proof of any of this. Sounds a little crazy to me. g

          • His complaint definitely does not hold water, but that old pitcher in SB242 sure does. What in blue blazes does this man think suing Forrest is going to accomplish anyway? I think he must be completely nuts and so do I.

          • Wow. Maybe it’s time Fenn passed the baton. Maybe to a handsome young veteran who dares to take on the world. Just a suggestion IMO.

        • Some people have no imagination so they cheat to get rich. In their mind, there is no other winning solve besides their own interpretation. I’ve had several “winning solves” and after each attempt I have to redirect my imagination to new possibilities. Tenacity is an important quality to have when studying the poem, IMHO.

          • Everyday I find I’m wrong I get another chance to be creative and have fun all over again. It’s the gift that keeps on giving lol. If I found it I might have to rehide it from myself somehow to keep playing.

          • “Some people have no imagination”
            Or too much.
            Kinda like the kid who loses all his marbles in the game then goes crying to ma saying he was cheated.
            Forrest has been kind enough to share his marbles and allowed everyone to play.
            Don’t ruin it just cuz u can’t shoot straight.

        • we have the creative, then we have “lawyers”…

          want to make democracy safe again? require that both the lawyer and lawyer’s client pay double the asked for “damages” for frivolous lawsuits.. (also any claim higher than actual damages to also be included in part as frivolous) imagine what would happen to damages awards, let alone lawsuits. (and those late night ambulance chaser commercials)

          someone sued the US forest service because a family member was killed by wildlife… because the US forest service didn’t put out a sign that said there was dangerous wildlife in the “forest”…

          and we need a single person who has managed to get to the age of 60 or older who has managed to not obtain a Darwin award or lawyer in that time, to decide…. non negotiable… imagine what would happen.. even if the person only did a half way decent job, people would actual feel like working/owning/doing… “Make capitalism great again”… 🙂

        • LOL! If start this trial will become most ridiculous lawsuit in USA history.
          I can’t even imagine: stupid searcher that not found TC sue Forrest for not finding it 🙂
          He says “he followed the clues and arrived at the location where the hidden items were.” Then, he says, Fenn first issued “misleading clues” that led Hanson to move away from his search area and then issued “additional clues” that benefited someone else, who “found the items in question.”
          I never read more idiotic claims. I hope judge will call him an idiot and decline this lawsuit as idiotic.

        • RRRRRRRRrrrrr….RRRRRRRrrrrr….RRRRRRrrrrrr…..Wow I just saw some possibly acutely deranged bloke running full speed chaising an ambulance down the Highway of Legends in southern Colorado. One needs to proceed with caution or you could run smack dab into a wall of stone. Boy howdy….what a new twist on The Thrill Of The Chase. Winners and Losers are NOT two of a kind!

          • He may mighta went crazy in circles tryna to organize treasure hunts. Maybe now he’s trying to help Forrest organize treasure hunts for the court system. Lol

          • This is still really good advertising for treasure hunting worldwide.
            I wanna say more but I’m not supposed to use those words in public.

    • There have been a ton of misguided actions in this Chase over the years… this is just another example. When/if the treasure is discovered I suspect these types will be popping out from under the rocks all over the place. Best to have a good plan of action.

      • Indeed, Ken. Remaining anonymous if found may be wise. Civil cases are expensive ‘IF’ the case even gets heard past a filing. IMO .

        • Staying “anonymous” regarding being the finder is a good start.

          But this may be easier said than done. One would perhaps,
          in order to succeed at this, refrain from telling anyone and
          every one, including one’s entire family, friends, etc. For some
          searchers, this may be too high a price to pay for the eventual
          financial reward from having found the trove. Good luck to Fenn
          and all of us. As always, this entire message is part of my opinion.

          • I’ve thought on this, too. My first inclinations were to remain quiet and secretive about it. But then I realized that there would be many negative consequences from going that route. Like becoming a criminal tax evader, for one. Then I thought how would I ever be able to sell antiquities for a fair price without drawing attention? I think there are many other aboveboard ways to handle the disposition of the treasure, all of which can have as much or as little publicity and attention as the finder chooses, though one will likely need a lawyer’s assistances.

          • Incredible to think someone would have the audacity to sue on the grounds that Forrest mislead them. He is delusional at best. Only in our twisted judicial system would such a lawsuit be brought up. He must have gone to one of our fine snowflake Ivy League Universities. Apparently the solve didn’t go in his direction so his paranoid brain told him Forrest was conspiring against him, mean while Forrest is leading everyone in the same direction. If that’s the case, Forrest has a Million Character Witnesses and can tie up the court system until Jesus comes back. I will vouch for Forrest and his integrity. We should all write a letter to the court/judge and tell them we will testify on behalf of Forrest, the defense can call all 100,000 of US… Who’s this guys attorney Mark Geragos, Gloria Allred … What a Pathetic Joke. In Jersey where I grew up, these guys end up in Landfills…

          • A good attorney will be able to quash this case quickly by crafting a well written argument in a motion for summary judgement. One which points out that tens of thousands of searchers have made hundreds of thousands of unfruitful searches, proving how frivolous and without merit the plaintiff’s indepenent claim truly is.

          • “Don’t sell the skin till you have caught the bear”
            It’s too early to worry about what we will do with TC. But getting lawyer’s assistance before release any information is good idea. Forrest said:
            “If you find the treasure please keep it in a vault for thirty days while you think. f
            Weekly Words from Forrest
            Weekly words for December 16th, 2016

  68. Hey Dal,

    How are you? I noticed that there is no longer an option to receive follow-up comments to my email after they are posted. I really miss this feature, and just wondering why you stopped doing that.

    • Blue Fox & Dal – I noticed the same thing. It’s not the end of the world, but I think it will cause me to overlook other people’s comments more often. Perhaps the “most recent comments” sidebar could be lengthened to compensate if the email notification setup is going away for good?

      • It looks like the comment count went way up recently. From an average around the high hundreds to low two hundreds and into the five hundreds.

        Maybe he just needs a few beats to work out the technicalities?

        I think that’s pretty cool that more people feel confident enough to speak up and join in the fray and I’m glad I was here to see it.

      • Hi Blex: I noticed the same thing. The transition took place sometime between the 3rd and the 4th of December. I no longer receive emails of new posts under any of the threads I’m subscribed to.

        • I’m not getting emails either, Zaphod.
          I tried resubscribing but that didnt work.
          Guess I’ll just wait for Chris too.
          Did you get fixed yet?

    • Blue-
      There also seems to be problems with subscriptions. I’ve asked Chris to take a look at it.

      In the past when WordPress auto- updated us we experienced this same issue…
      Doesn’t happen all the time but it happened twice in the past. If that’s the case Chris can probably fix the issue…

    • Hey Blue Fox, thanks for letting us know. The issue should be resolved. The notification plug-in had a SNAFU and needed to be reinstalled.

  69. Last night, my wife reminded me that we had ordered some sort of TTOTC game like Monopoly or something. It has been a while since the ordering. Did anyone else order such an item and receive the product?
    I’m left scratching my head over the thought.

  70. Just wanted to share that after years of familiarity with the chase, I went BOTG for the first time about a month ago. I had a blast, but encountered unforeseen issues that precluded a resolution to my “solve.” I’ll have to wait for “the stars to align” (meant purely in cliche manner) for my next attempt, but I’m still Gung Ho on my secret where, which has multiple affirmations/confirmation biases per clue. So 9x9x9+
    I know this classifies me as a chase greenhorn, relatively speaking, but I also don’t think it reduces my odds in any substantial way. I think that’s the nature of the puzzle.
    Of course I’m going to play my cards close to the vest, and hence my reluctance to forge alliances or cooperation agreements. But I do enjoy the sleuthing, research, creative writing and divinations that happen here.
    Can I get a wish for good luck?

    • Ronald – Let me be the first to wish you Good Luck when you again put BotG – And while I’m wishin’ – “I wish you a Merry Christmas – 🙂 JDA

    • Hey Ronald! Nice that you got your first BOTG trip done! You can officially call yourself a treasure hunter now, methinks! This really is a unique opportunity for adventure and excitement and I am glad you’re seizing it. I wish you well, but not so much that you’ll find the treasure instead of me! 😉

    • “unforeseen issues”

      That’s half the fun of botg. Trees lying in the road, do not trespass signs, large herd of elk right in your path, snow piles where you need to walk, bison blocking the road, being followed by a pickup truck…

    • My dumbest BOTG mistake was entering MO instead of MT when getting the daily weather report and then heading out into a thunderstorm (and then wimping out). I guess that’s an unforseen issue?

  71. Let’s see. Starting (arbitrarily) at SB235, we see scrapbooks at the following intervals:
    1 day,1 day,2 days,1 day,
    1 day (scrapbook-two_hundred-thirty-forty)
    1 day,3 days,2 days,
    and now 7 days with nothing.
    What does it all mean? (nothing, of course)


  72. I read the article about this Dave H. guy and realized how there is a lot of people out of focus in this chase.
    We as searchers have certain obligations when taking this chase head on, and some of those are.

    {Do your research} – Find out what your getting into, and take nothing for granted. Work on understanding Fenn’s poem then try to marry those clues to map and solve area. Don’t make things fit. There should be a flow, as to say, on all that is out there to help you.

    {Do a “proper” BOTG trip once you think you have most or all clues solved} – That means while in the mountains take “all” precautions to insure you and any other members are safe in that area of searching. Don’t put yourself at “any” risk, Forrest didn’t. If you don’t find the chest then just regroup and investigate where or how you went wrong and maybe try it again if you can, but “never” over extend your means.

    {Never blame, talk bad about, or sue the man who created TTOTC} – If you can’t figure out where the chest is hidden, blame yourself. The clues and hints and information is out there to put you on top of “Indulgence”. It’s not Forrest fault you can’t put all the correct answers together.

    {Lastly don’t bicker with other searchers on blogs like here at hoD’s} Have some intelligent conversations about information, solves or just plain theories that pertains to the chase, with the understanding we are all different in our thought process.

    Good luck to all, and hope the winter months brings you great ideas for your next BOTG.


    • Beautifully said Bur. I am livid over this mans frivolous claim, what a sore loser! And waste of Forrest and the courts time!

    • Very well said Bur. As you said; something we all should already know, but nice to read it anyway – Thanks for the post – GOOD ADVICE – Read and Heed – JDA

      • Thanks JDA,

        I’ve been guilty of over stepping the lines when out searching, but I also have been out trail hiking a lot in my younger years and kind of know my limits. It’s just a matter for everyone to use that beaner in their head for all in this chase.

        Thanks again JDA, and to you always good luck.


        • And good luck to you Bur in your future searches – Am sure you always use that “beaner” – always remember – TRY and STAY SAFE – 🙂 JDA

  73. Ok….someone please help me get this stupid thought out of my head. Set me straight if you will. LOL!

    But does anyone else think there might be just a slight possibility that Forrest my be having some fun and actually posting here under an alias? (I see the rolled eyes already) I know, I know, but just hear me out.

    We all know the hunt has been his baby for a long time. I believe he never imagined this would get to be as BIG as it is and that’s why, in the beginning and for many years, he tried to answer most of his email personally. IMO, he is just that kind of person. But here we are today, and it’s out-of-control. So how do you manage still communicating with your “searching friends” without being overwhelmed? After all, he did ask everyone to stop emailing him.

    If he were to continue posting under ff, he would be right back to overwhelmed because the responses would be many. But if he were to remain anonymous, he could respond whenever, or when-never he pleased. I believe it would go hand-and-hand with the many SBs lately with perhaps trying to help us along. Now don’t get me wrong, I don’t mean giving out hints! I mean challenging our thinking and the way we are going about our solves. Shaking things up a bit if we start to get stale. And no one-on-one…..just “thoughts” for all!

    If it were anyone else, I don’t think this thought would ever have ever crossed my mind. But that Forrest guy – he’s very clever you know.

    So there is my SO (silly opinion). I’m probably just delusional with too much pre-BOTG time on my hands! LOL! Help!

    P.S. Please be kind with your responses. I really am a nice person.

    • Hello Geysergirl. There have been searchers over the years who have felt the same way as you do now. Does he take on a different alias? I don’t believe he does, but it’s a fun thought of “What if…”.

      • Hi pdenver. Glad to hear others before me had that same silly thought too. And yes, it is just intended as a fun “what-if.”

        I think it’s time to get back to some more serious puzzle solving. I have one BOTG to try this summer, but I like to line-up a few possible interpretations to make a really fun time of exploring!

        • Geysergirl, I think that’s a reasonable approach to searching; especially when even the matter of getting to a solve area involves a lot of effort and travel to a remote site. It may be that your deductions were good and led you to the vicinity, but your final deductions were slightly off. Perfectly logical to have some backup solutions or alternate scenarios when in your location, even if to only provide peace of mind that you did your best with a thorough search. What if we interpret one line of the poem to read with a different ending?
          “Look quickly down, your quest to seize,…”

          • Exactly Ronald. My husband is not a “searcher”. He just follows my lead but sometimes questions how I can have such variations in one solve! LOL! There is no way to even try to explain that to him…..I always say just trust me. Famous last words! LOL!

          • I used to interpret that line as perhaps meaning
            “Look quickly down; you arc west to see southeast”.

            But so far, it hasn’t led me to the TC.

    • Hi Geysergirl – I don’t think that would be such a crazy idea, however dal would definitely know and be able to tell us if Forrest is commenting under a different name by looking at the IP addresses.

      That said, while dal would be able to tell us if Forrest is commenting under a different name, he might not necessarily decide to for the fun of it. Kind of an inside joke between him and Forrest. So who knows?

      If I were in Forrest’s shoes, I would certainly consider using an alias to have some fun on the blogs!

      • Good point Blex. I thought about that and wondered if just providing a different email account would negate that aspect, but I have NO idea how this all works. Dal just makes it all magically appear for us! It’s easy. Right Dal? 😉

      • Blex, I think one of the problems is the longer the search goes, the more difficult people think it is. I found WWWH and HOB. But you really do have to find WWWH to make the connection, Forrest wasn’t lying about that. You’re a dedicated searcher so I will tell you this, WWWH is two bodies of water, and warm isn’t talking about temperature. It’s referring to distance. The Brown in HOB is a man’s name. He still exists and it is one of the two bodies of WWWH. It is named after the city Brown is from. Him and Forrest might even be friends although I’ve never heard him mention him. When looking for WWWH, remember what Forrest said. There are many WWWH in the Rockies. You have to find HIS WWWH.

        • NoName6 – Thanks for being willing to share so much. I can honestly say that I have not been looking at an area that matches your description, however maybe I’ll stumble upon a spot that matches your description eventually! If so, I’ll let you know!

      • Darn Dal…..there goes my fun “what if”! LOL! Now I have to get back to the “REAL” business of the hunt. Thanks for keeping me sane. 🙂

      • I was going to post that Dal & Chris would know, but I see Dal has already taken care of that. But we also have this from Forrest on this very blog:

        Under Forrest LIVE on HuffPost by Forrest Fire (2/5/2015 @ 9:32 am): “I believe what Dal said about the NM tourism video. I didn’t see it before it was released, but not matter, There are a few misconceptions floating around in space so maybe it’s time for me to comment on several of them. I have never used any name on the blogs other than Forrest Fenn and Forrest Fire, nor have I said anything with the idea of leading or misleading a searcher. I was joking on HuffPost Live yesterday when I offered a clue for one hundred million dollars, but after thinking on it overnight I’ve decided to let the offer stand. If accepted I will hide a treasure worth $100,000,000 somewhere in the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe, but it might take me a while to write the poem. f”

        Link: https://dalneitzel.com/2015/02/03/huffpost/#comment-73798

        • Thank you Zap. I took Dal’s word as good and this pretty much seals the deal.

          There’s been a lot of fun, and maybe to some, not so fun, chatter on the posts lately. I think it’s just when there is a “stall” in potential new ideas. Since I am relatively new to the search ( 2 years in but just a few months posting), I’m going to take on the tedious task of going back and sift thru some early discussions on the Poem from some more seasoned searchers such as yourself. It’s amazing how much can be forgotten over time and a pair of fresh eyes never hurts.

          I sincerely believe we have it all “here” and that many of us are saying the same thing in different ways. But it’s time to go back to the beginning and rethink. I honestly believe that this is so simple – it becomes difficult. IMO

        • Hi Geysergirl: there is a lot of value in going back to the earliest comments on this blog. There were some very bright searchers/researchers active then, many of whom have moved on (or at least haven’t posted in years).

          One of the practical reasons for reading the old posts is that the first two clues were solved very early on — 2012 or 2013, before TFTW was published and before all but the earliest few Scrapbooks had come out. (SBs 1 & 2 came out 2/6/2013). Searchers then had far less information to work with than we do now, and yet some of them still solved the first two clues. Since 99% or more of searchers have not solved WWWH, perhaps restricting ones research materials to what was available in early 2013 would be one good way to “simplify” per Forrest’s advice. Having too much information can be be as much a hindrance to success as having too little.

          It can be a challenge to find the oldest posts here, so let me save you a lot of time and mouse clicks. The oldest blog comments are found in these threads and starting dates: “Part one – What do those clues mean…?” (9/2/2011) “Where Warm Waters Halt” (9/4/2011), “Forrest Gets Mail #1” (9/8/2011), “Part two…Interpreting the clues” (9/8/2011), “Hiding Gold” (9/11/2011), “My Name is Dal” (9/16/2011), “The Aura of Gold” (9/25/2011), “What’s Your Choice?” (9/25/2011), “Coyote Part 1” (9/25/2011) — a GREAT story by Dal!, “Coyote Part 2” (10/2/2011), “I Found It!!!” (10/4/2011), “Winter Reading Assignment” (10/7/2011), “Canine Teeth” (10/23/2011), “Diggin’ It” (10/28/2011), “Insight” (10/29/2011), and “Higher Numbers Don’t Always Add Up” (11/5/2011)

          For Dal: over the years I’ve slowly built up a database of links to the oldest posts on your blog. I have links for nearly all of the first 1300 posts. (Interestingly, I’ve never found post #1, and I have a big gap from 40-203. Otherwise, I’m missing only 23 others from the first 1300.) Let me know if you’d like me to email you that list of links — I’ve found it to be a convenient index.

          • Hi Zap,
            you said that “the first two clues were solved very early on — 2012 or 2013”. I’m not sure that it’s correct conclusion. In reality nobody really solved clues #1-2. Some searchers just visited exact locations of clues 1-2 and even walked around TC (200-500 feet). In email to Forrest they sent photos, said where they searched and he concluded that they were very close to TC. But these searchers never knew that they solved clues #1-2 i.e. got correct WWWH. If they knew that their solves are correct they definitely will continue their BOTGs in these places and found TC.
            There are hundreds locations of search published during last 10 years. And maybe searchers that sent Forrest correct location of WWWH never publish this information on Dal website.
            About “very bright searchers/researchers”. Why you called them bright if they didn’t found TC? All searchers are equal before TC is not found. One searcher who found it will be real bright one.

          • Zap-
            By “posts” I assume you mean “comments”.
            For me “posts” are the pages with headings…and comments are the contributions from readers of the posts.
            When this blog began it was on a Network Solutions server where my professional website lived. That server could not keep up with the growing traffic and was also expensive. I had no idea how to build a blog so the first version was a nightmare. Goofy got tired of the growing non-indexed…no menu blog in its first iteration and redesigned the blog from the base up. We moved to a faster commercial server where it is now when the new design was implemented. Some of the early comments were lost in the move but as far as I know none of the posts were lost…they are still here.
            The first “post” on the blog was a a page called “In the Beginning” which became the basis for the present home page. The early version from August 23, 2011 still exists along with comments from the first folks on the blog…Irene Rawlings and Stephanie…
            You can read those comments here:

          • Thanks Dal! Yes, I meant comments, not posts. And thank you for posting the “In the beginning” link!

          • Oh my gosh! Thank you! I now have my work cut out for me. But winters in MT can be long, so lot’s of time to poke around. I hope I don’t get stuck in too many rabbit holes along the way! 🙂

          • … and there is my missing gap of comments starting at #40! I totally understand about the migration pains from the old server to the new. All the information is here — it just takes some effort if you want to find things in the chronological order in which they originally appeared.

    • Geysergirl—

      I have often thought that “toughshed” might be Forrest having fun. Toughshed always makes cranky comments. lol. But I don’t know. I think it would be fun for Forrest to post under another name and ask questions that get everyone posting. 🙂

        • You could always pretend it’s Shiloh doing it instead. That would preserve the magic of the parade.

          I wouldn’t build a solve around the theory though.

          • Copy that AkB!

            Btw, every time I type your”name” I keep wondering why it’s not AkA?

          • Cuz my last name start with a B.

            Your idea is better though. But I already made the business cards…

    • To do that he would need to subscribe to a VPN to mask his IP since it is known from previous posts. Also, any posts from his neighborhood would be obvious to the various site admins. I doubt he would go through the trouble, nor do something so duplicitous (wow, first time I ever used that word). When he has something to say, he uses a scrapbook or just posts as ff.


  74. Maybe all r cryptic… they are just read straight forward!
    Or they are all straight forward and it is believed cryptic!
    North is South and South is North,
    Winter is Summer and Summer is Winter,
    Look up the words for you to go forth.
    Through the portal; first, you must enter.

  75. JDA,

    The only reason for any of it was that I saw an opportunity to do a thing that hadn’t been done before. Seems like organizing ourselves in order to test each others theories is a logical thing to do that doesn’t give away our solves and forces us to work together.

    But who knows, Fenn could hate that idea too. Maybe that’s why he stopped writing.

    So I’ll say, if nothing comes of it in the next scrapbook, Ill drop it and move on to something else. Maybe you could jump on that train if for no other reason than to keep me quiet?

    • I thought you guys were already waiting for a scrapbook? Why couldn’t you just test your theories now?

    • AkB;

      What theory do you have that you want tested? I have a theory that the chest is in Wyoming, but there is no way to test that theory other than to find Indulgence. Don’t care what ideas the group could come up with, there is no answer to my theory. I, like you, believe that Forrest MAY drop[ hints or “nudges” in the SB’s. I see no logical way of testing it. You think that by asking him a non-chase related question that we could learn whether he does drop hints or nudges. I say no. IF Forrest posts an SB with a “YES” in it – You will say that he is answering in the affirmative. – He does drop hints – when in fact he doesn’t. What if, someone else asked him if the sky is blue? He could be answering “YES” to question #2, not your question. Too many loop holes for me. JMO – But what do I know? NADA – JDA

      • Oh yeah – didn’t someone post that Forrest said that he does not offer clues? Doesn’t Forrest use clue and hint interchangeably? – JDA

        • I have a theory but it’s gonna take quite some time to test as it is a lot of reading of the information available.

        • As far as I am aware, CKL asked a question, Four Eyes jumped on the train, I said I thought it was a good one, and I think a few others said some things. It’s all over on 243. I don’t think I have it in me to type it all out again.

  76. I wonder! What if there was no title, nothing extra in the chest…
    Would we be more likely to work together, or is it, to keep the extra?
    It would split equally then, between how many in the group…
    Is it greed, glory, or a desire to be the ONE that solved this.
    Or the opposite; the fear of looking foolish when you are so sure you are right.
    If we are not confident and can go right to it, then we need help.
    As we all should say… IMO

  77. One thing the lawsuit guarantees is a ton of free publicity. The article you link was published in “The Daily Mail,” which is a widely read, news and entertainment site with worldwide distribution.
    It will be an exceptional stimulus for clicks and sales. As I said earlier, the suit itself will go nowhere…IMO.

    • I agree, crazy suit doesn’t have nothing on this chase. Not a snowballs chance in well we won’t go there.

  78. Anyone else picking up on:

    “I wish I could have lived to do the things I was attributed to?”

    “I’m terrified that someone might find out who I am”

    “I’m gonna solve that murder” Lorene Mills interview.

    “It doesn’t matter who you are, it only matters who people think you are.”


    Any takers?

    • I have always believed kinda the opposite it’s not what people believe you are, it’s how you feel about yourself that matters. In other words ” you are how you feel about yourself” imo
      I’ve spent my life trying not to care about what others think! Most of them don’t matter!
      That statement is one of the only things I disagree on that Forrest said!
      I do understand why he says that.
      I think it pertains to his business.
      Forrest talked about running full page adds for his gallery to appear big in business.
      I did this too. It works.
      I would love it if he talked more about this philosophy.
      To me it just depends on what aspect. Friends and family are whats important.

      • I too, would love if FF discussed this philosophy in more detail.

        I’m a bit surprised that this philosophy has not gotten more “run” from searchers/researchers.

        In essence he is saying…it doesn’t matter if you’re a cheat, liar, notorious in community, fake, inexperienced, inept, judgmental, fiendish, or any other negative moniker we can think of…it only matter how you’ve “marketed yourself.” In other words, what have you beguiled others to think of you.

        Is he taking about himself…or…someone else?? Is he referring to someone politically? Religiously? Is he (Fenn) culpable of something that is “weighing” on his conscience? Thus, hide the indulgence?

        Does the poem hold this key?

        I feel like something important has happened…this Fall. Things in the chase are different. There is more to this than just a TC location in the mountains N of St Fe.

        I. m. O…trying, but don’t know.

        • @Jmeils,

          IMO, ff’s statement
          “It only matters who they think you are” For me, this philosophy is better understood when divided into 3 separate categories:

          (present yourself as smart & successful.)

          -Personal integrity
          (Of course ff knows this matters)

          -Who others “think” you are. (People form opinions of us which are dictated through their own paradigm, forming a view of who they think we are – whether it’s accurate or not)

          Does that make sense?

          • Yes, thx 42. I’m certain he was referring mainly to the advertising industry – ESP important to a young, up-amd-coming art foundry that needed to looked at as “an expert.” I totally get it and remain open to additional info. Growing up in a fam of self employed, I know one needs every advantage one can get.

            Marketing, business, sales, retail…lots of cutthroat out there that’ll do anything to “win.”

  79. Dal, how about hiring Sister Mary Line-us-up to pick out detractors and impersonators?

    Thanks for running a great blog.

  80. Lou Lee.
    I don’t usually post to to many things here but I like what bring forth I n question. My guess is that if you were a bank robber and or maybe a killer and you were a councilor or even a preacher for sake. Given your circumstances maybe you could feel good about yourself but in the eyes of others you are two completely different identities.
    So in the end does it really matter what others think of you if it’s not really who you are. You are the only one that has to live with yourself. If you believe in higher standards for yourself then you will shine to others and you don’t have to worry what there thinking of you. And if there thinking is negative you will know that they have not set the high standards you have. It’s as simple as worry more about who you are and want to be then what anyone else has to say or think. That’s my Philosophy And I am not sure how Mr. Fenn thinks about that or not. Personally it doesn’t matter to me unless I don’t live up to my own standards and I’m confronted. The better person can except that and grow from it.
    The others will withdraw and or fight the battle to be right all the time.
    For instances y
    This Dave character I don’t know much about but it sound like there is some psychological issues there or someone that’s looking for a fast buck settlement. Maybe low self esteem and needs to be recognized. Mr. Fenn. Talks of this in his book about Lee Harvey Oswald and John Wilks Bouth.
    I’m. Going out on a limb here when I say that I believe Mr. Fenn is saying it’s who they think you are.
    That has nothing to do with how you are reading that but what is the realationship of the statement to something else.
    Your perception of what he said is he doesn’t think it matters if your a thief liar robber murderer or else. Just what they think of you.
    That’s far from the truth. In reality.
    This is not about reality. This is about what reality and imagination have in common and how you can perceive there connections.
    You will read this with confusion and think what an idiot and non of it will make sense and you may respond as others to the tone of a sour note because it’s not what you want to here. It’s not in the norm of thinking.
    My primary motivation for commenting was to shed some light on what you may think Mr. Fenn. Is saying.
    I probably just gave more to the chase then I should have. But my objectives are not the same as most and I make my own choices.
    I am married and that is not always true
    This is just my opinion and I’m not challenging anyone else’s.
    Feel free to look for hints here I’m sure there there and it wasn’t thought out.

    • This makes a really good point, kinda like how you have to have the treasure box not just the solve.

  81. “its who they think you are”….. a cynical statement? Like creating a false image to advantage or market yourself? Or, like a survival technique used by insects & animals to stand taller & look bigger when confronted by a predator? “If you are brave and in the wood” … well, I am sure you are not quaking or petrified.

      • I was expanding on your point, and stretching it to a consideration of the state of bravery, which in turn could be a subtle hint about “in the wood”. Oh well. Good luck to you.

  82. Special place, special things. He filled the chest with things that were special to him, and he’s willing to give them away. What makes his special place different,? He could have hid the chest somewhere else and told us how to find his special place, but he’s not willing to give that away. I think it must have been something more than material goods or gain that led him there.

    • I believe that his motivation is two-fold: he wants to affect how people think about the environment/world, and he wants specific recognition/praise for what he has done. In my opinion, this is perfectly normal, because everyone alive wants this. I wonder how much money he has donated to Asian hospitals or orphanages.

  83. Interview questions?????

    (Person one)
    Do you still believe there’s a word that is key that searchers should focus on?
    Forrest reply: yes
    Is that word in the poem?
    Forrest reply: That was two questions.
    (Person two)
    May I ask a question? Is that word in the poem?
    Forrest reply: That was two questions. What’s your question?
    Is the key word in the poem?
    Forrest reply: Well that’s what he asked me.
    No, he asked you if there is one, you said yes.
    My question is, is it in the poem?

    After a few seconds of thinking Forrest replied: There is one word that will help you more then some of the others.
    (Person one)
    In the poem?
    Forrest reply: In the poem….but you have to have all of them, one is not going to take you there.

    So did Forrest say “the word that is key” was in the poem??? For me no.

    To me he said:
    “One word” that will help, not that there’s a word that is key that will help. I believe Forrest is tricky in his replies.

    IMO, the word that is key is in TTOTC book.

    What are your thoughts?


    • Agreed Bur..
      F is very tricky.
      He did not exactly say “the word that is key is in the poem”..
      They heard exactly what they wanted to hear..imo of course..

      • Fenn says that everything we need is in the poem. So, to me anyways, that means that there’s a word that’s key to it all, it’s something you need in order to solve, therefore it must be in the poem.

        But Forrest following quote seems to be implying analysis of the poem has lead a select few to “the word that’s key.”

        It is interesting to know that a great number of people are out there searching. Many are giving serious thought to the clues in my poem, but only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key. The treasure may be discovered sooner than I anticipated.

      • Would agree there is one word that will help you more then others in the poem, but you need to get that first clue solved to understand that word. Now the word that is key (in the TTOTC book for me) will help with the first clue.

        My option Jasonhall.

  84. He did also say something like “don’t mess with my poem”. Just saying. Altering something can change outcome, and the people asking questions are already doing that if they are zeroing in on a single word. He gave us a poem, not a sentence.

  85. Does time play an important role in your current solve? Perhaps it should. I know I’m not the first person to notice and talk about how heavily stated the idea of time is in Forrest’s writings and commentary but here are just a few things that draw me into placing an importance on the idea of time.

    The first thing is obviously the line “the end is ever drawing nigh.” That in itself suggests a circular never ending movement much like the rotation of the sun or the hands on a clock face.

    There is Forrest’s heavy use of the term midnight, such as his line “as I sit here just past midnight” on the page with the asterisk at the end of “important literature.” He uses the term midnight and the numbers 12 or 1 often.

    In the chapter important literature, the first official chapter of the book, Forrest uses the word time exactly 9 times and the second to last use is an italicized “time magazine” that makes the word time jump off of the page. In fact Forrest uses the word time in every single chapter of the first book with exception to one. And that happens to be the very short chapter titled “father on the banco.” But a couple of time related quips about that chapter are firstly , the obvious connection of the word father and the term Father Time. But what’s more is even though that half page chapter doesn’t have the word time written out in it, it gives reference to three different increments of time, that all occur in the same sentence.

    The last obvious connection is the title “once upon a while.” The title uses a synonym for the word time in a phrase that has forever famously included the word time. Then Forrest does his revised edition and throws a big old picture of dizzy dean with the giant letters of time, from the magazine, right in everyone’s face.

    I could dig much deeper into this subject but not without revealing the structure of my theory.

    Happy hunting to all.

    • Double A,
      Quick question…. Are you looking “time” with a past and present idea (weeks years decades),or a process a searcher is required to follow while in search mode (botg)

      Just curious..

      • I think (in my opinion, blah blah) Forrest is meaning time like throwing his watch away. If you figure it out, theres no rushing anything. It’ll take however long it takes for anyone, and everyone searching. Everybody comes to their own solves in their own time. The only question isn’t time, but the timing of someone possibly giving up clues at wrong time because then you wouldn’t be first in the chase I’m guessing. The keywords is helpful, but the keyword is Paramount, and a whole bunch more but I’m pretending to be dead for today so I can feel alive.

      • Hey seeker, I appreciate the question. Unfortunately to explain it further from my perspective is not something that I feel comfortable doing at this tIme. I will say that it’s not exactly defined by terminology that would directly answer your question. It has been something that has developed as I’ve defined the details of my search area and progression of movements through said area.

        But regardless of what I think the poem means, I find his emphasis on time to be more than a little in our faces. It definitely seems that he is trying to put some emphasis on the concept of time. In my opinion, it must be for a reason.

  86. “Time by itself does not exist … It must not be claimed that anyone can sense time by itself apart from the movement of things.” Lucretius.
    “We encounter difficulties when we attempt to say what exactly the ‘place’ of a thing is. Aristotle.
    Its relative. Einstein.

  87. Here is my solution as to how Forrest Fenn’s poem should be read. The poem is rearranges into three groups; prologue, clues and epilogue. One key word in each line in the clues section is shown with brackets, and the most important (and focused) key of the poem is shown with <> bracket. Three locations you should find are the first lines in each set of three lines in the clues section.


    As I have gone alone in there
    And with my treasures bold,
    I can keep my secret where,
    And hint of riches new and old.

    So why is it that I must go
    And leave my trove for all to seek?
    The answers I already know,
    I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.

    So hear me all and listen good,
    Your effort will be worth the cold.


    Begin it where warm waters
    And take it in the canyon ,
    Not far, but far to walk.

    Put in below the home of <>.
    From there it’s no place for the ,
    The is ever drawing nigh;

    If you’ve been and found the blaze,
    Look quickly , your quest to cease,
    If you are and in the wood I give you title to the gold.


    But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
    Just take the chest and go in peace.

    There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
    Just heavy loads and water high.

    — MajinKing

    • Somehow the key words are all disappeared. Here is another try with different brackets. I didn’t know that the <> brackets do that.


      Begin it where warm waters [halt]
      And take it in the canyon [down],
      Not far, but [too] far to walk.

      Put in below the home of [[Brown]].
      From there it’s no place for the [meek],
      The [end] is ever drawing nigh;

      If you’ve been [wise] and found the blaze,
      Look quickly [down], your quest to cease,
      If you are [brave] and in the wood I give you title to the gold.

      — MajinKing

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