Scrapbook Two Hundred Seventeen…


October, 2019




I took this picture in 1958. It’s a small part of the Verdun battle field where in WW-l, the Germans fought the French for 303 days, the longest battle in that war. 143,000 soldiers were killed.

Because this “war zone” was still littered with land mines and other terrible killing devices, no civilians were allowed near it.032

I was one of 26 pilots in the 23rd Fighter Squadron stationed at Bitburg, Germany. There were many other fighter squadrons scattered around Europe, and we needed a gunnery range.

So a very narrow swath of a dirt road was cleared of mines all the way to the end, where a makeshift tower was erected. A chair and a radio were its only inhabitants. I stood duty as range officer there several times. It was a terrible job. Big red signs were planted every 200’ or so along the road going in, DANGER – DO NOT GET OFF OF THE ROAD. I didn’t.

Occasionally, a strafing F-100, using ball ammo, would hit some kind of live ordinance that was hidden just under the ground surface of that seemingly extinct battle field, causing an explosion. And once again the echoes of 1916 would rumble across the serene French country side, causing temporary panic in the local kitchens.

In some places the residuals of war last on for many years after the formal fighting has stopped. Verdun is one of them.

Plato said, “Only the dead will know the end of wars.” When are we going to stop this madness? f



193 thoughts on “Scrapbook Two Hundred Seventeen…

  1. I once watched a documentary on WWI. The lengths they went to to tunnel under their enemy to plant ordinance under them was impressive. People are evil. We need to end this madness, but the military industrial complex has powerful influence and will never quit.

      • That so-called “military industrial complex” is fed by the greed of most
        consumers (including you and me). Yes, war is hell. But it’s as natural
        as reproduction, which generally feeds the greed. All part of my opinion
        (and by the way, I’m not a fan of war or greed or runaway population

      • Greed and then power are the motivating factors..And then lets suck the hard working blue collar class to do our dirty work–This applies to both sides,while their leaders sit back and smoke their Cuban cigars and do their dirty little deals behind closed doors..

      • Robert, Eric is not absolutely correct. The word he was looking for is “Ordnance” (munitions), not “ordinance” (law)

  2. Last year I was working in Ireland with a colleague from France. He was telling me of a similar WWI battlefield near the house he grew up in. It was fenced off with signs warning people of the dangers. He said that the land mines used during WWI were wooden, and thus could not be detected by metal detectors and many still worked after all those years.

  3. Why do I feel like I’m being gunned down with all these new scrapbooks shooting at me? Whew! Thank you, Forrest! It’s raining over here!

    • Katbalou, don’t take on battle damage, the land already did.

      Sad how chemical weapons & Bombs leave beautiful places and people scared.

    • It’s actually “Only the dead have seen the end of war” and it has been attributed to Plato but not proven I think.

      • “The quote has also been ascribed to Spanish-American philosopher George Santayana, though it’s unclear if he coined the expression. It appears in his 1922 book ‘Soliloquies in England and Later Soliloquies,’ where he writes without attributing it to another source, ‘Only the dead are safe; only the dead have seen the end of war.’ The attribution to Plato gained popularity in the 1960s after General Douglas MacArthur credited the ancient Greek philosopher with coining it in a 1962 address to West Point cadets.” (great site!)

        • Lady V, that was a good link!

          It’s also worth noting that the quote is that “only the dead have SEEN the end of war” and not “only the dead will KNOW the end of wars” as Forrest wrote above.

  4. I agree. War is madness. When I was stationed in the 3rd Armored Division in Butzbach, Germany in 1984, I became a pacifist and very anti-war in my philosophy. However, when I was sent to the field in Wildflicken, and we could see the Russians standing guard in East Germany, I knew I would do my duty to defend and protect if it came down to that. There is something, I think, in our nature which makes us fiercely want to protect our own.

  5. Thanks for continuing your stories and educating us. I’m thankful that most of the U.S. battles have been fought on other country’s lands and ours has been spared. I don’t think it’s going to end Forrest. People seem to be getting angrier and I think the internet and blogs and politicians are a huge part of why.

    • His name is Guess. He was a friend of mine in Temple and i knew his father. That photo was taken at Luke AFB when he was a student of mine in gunnery school. f

  6. Very interesting scrapbook.
    You were such a brave warhead.
    I don’t think the madness will ever end it will only get worse. How sad for this world.
    As we all know the end is ever drawing nigh. ❤️

  7. interesting read of replies of what others have been through and what is happening today.
    Thanks everyone for sharing.
    and thanks Dal – looks like Fenn has kept you busy posting so many scrapbooks. It’s appreciated.

  8. Sadly as long as humans survive and have the emotions of lust, greed, envy, jelousy, hate ect.
    and the powers that be covet we will have war. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts
    absolutely. As power increases morality dimishes. Shakespeare’s Julius Caesar: Mark Anthony “Cry Havoc and let slip the dogs of war”
    I fear Plato is right

    • Gary Risher – Great quote. Amen.

      Let us all be like Marc Antony. Fiercely loyal, but always looking at what was best for all. But, we shouldn’t idolize Dionysus and drink as much as Marcus Antonius did. Sorry, Marcus. That one was from Cleopatra.

      • Gary Risher – Also from Shakespeare’s “King John” in 1595, the original line that inspired this phrase:

        ‘Don’t fight fire with fire.”

        Or you will end up with ashes. Although, Osborne Russell might disagree, based on one of his successful battles with the Blackfeet Indians above the West Fork of the Madison River.

        I think I see my search area at Baker’S Hole on this 1988 Yellowstone Fire map:

        There is a Fire Management Station across Highway 191 from there, next to the WYS runway. And I have wondered if Forrest was watching me from the burn area boundary, on a bluff above my hidey spot. Think: Remote Wildlife Camera powered by a solar panel.

        • Just spent 2 weeks camping at Bakers hole the in august. Part of my search always involves journal of a trapper.
          ff loves had great admiration for Osborne Russel.

          • Gary Risher – Awesome. Yes. More on Osborne Russell and Forrest loving his book over on the blog post of Chris’s CWB visit with Forrest.

            Did you meet Larry and his family, who manage the Baker’S Hole Campground???

          • Lisa Cesari
            Yes I did meet all the camp host at Bakers hole Sat down with all and explained the Thrill of the chase tothem and they were intrigued. Larry talked about how Marvin Fenn was his math teacher and spoke of him with great respect.
            Marvin’s prodigy has kept his fathers memory alive.

          • Gary Risher – Awesome. I was hoping you would say that. I am glad Larry and his family know all about The Chase now.

            I think Baker’s Hole Campground closed on September 30th for the season. That is when Campfire Lodge closes, also.

  9. In my Northeast corner, Osborne Russell said, “I could spend the remainder of my days in a place like this where happiness and contentment seemed to reign in wild romantic splendor surrounded by majestic battlements which seemed to support the heavens and shut out all hostile intruders.”

  10. That’s why your the antidote for George Soros Forrest. We have tomany like him that use their money for a power grab. Not enough like you who cares, even for the smallest and weakest amongst us. I till get a warm feeling thinking about you “high fiving” that little autistic girl. Very few care like you do.. You are what this world needs at this time, and this place.

  11. Forrest,
    While I never served, it seems the only good that can come from war is the relationships formed among the brothers in arms. It is rare in any other scenario that men and women will truly lay down there lives for one another. No greater love!

  12. War is a madness, that’s for sure. There’s peace in oneness membership , if only we could re-member. A nice story as a re-minder. Thanks, FF.

    IMO .

  13. The battle of Verdun was designed around killing as many French soldiers as possible. There are vacant towns that were never re-inhabited because so many and much was lost. It was just too much to live in anymore. I worry that someday the entire planet will be one huge graveyard and a “historical battleground.”

    The documentary “Apocalypse” is worth the watch. Thank you for your service Forrest.

    • That phrase “inhumanity of man” always cracks me up. If man is a killer (for
      reasons other than survival — i.e., defense or food), then it is part of humanity,
      not “inhumanity”. Humans aren’t generally as peaceful as most other creatures.
      All IMO.

  14. As Oz10 pointed out, Forrest altered the Plato quote to read, “Only the dead WILL KNOW the end of war.” Rather than “Only the dead HAVE SEEN the end of war”

    Given Plato’s philosophy of the soul, I think ff changed the quote intentionally to reflect Plato’s ideas on death.

    From wicki:
    Plato considered the psyche (ψυχή) to be the essence of a person, being that which decides how people behave. He considered this essence to be an eternal occupant of our being. Plato said that even after death, the soul exists and is able to think. He believed that as bodies die, the soul is continually reborn.”

    Few in history have formed thought or reasoned as Plato & Socrates.

  15. It is from Plato’s literature that the mythical land of Atlantis originates from- him and Solon.

  16. War will end when debate becomes far less desirable than the opportunity for dialog. Peacebuilding takes diligent efforts to build capacity amongst people with different cultures and norms. Ask Bill Taylor.

  17. We are the ones who can decide how to act and react to pick the better option between war and peace. I re-watched Lord of the Rings recently, and the king mourning the “death” of his son who was still alive is instructive. I don’t want to be that guy.

    • I always thought that the LOTR was based on Plato’s Republic book 2- The Ring of Gyges. Plato has many literary influences enthused to this day. It’s a wonder to the Plato quote reference here.

  18. As you said Forrest – ” When are we going to stop this madness?” f – Let’s hope that it does end soon Forrest – JDA

  19. As long as there are old men that refuse to keep sanity, and young men wanting to prove their virility we will have wars. Someone once said sanity is defined by the majority. Only the minority can truly see the insanity around them.

  20. Wow looks just like my x marks the spot in WY 😉 Who’s going to get this for me lol 50/50!!

    • Hi Vicki,
      WY is good state for search but it’s big. In which part of WY you have your X mark?


  21. A few Possible anagrams from ff’s title: VERDUN
    Under V
    UR/UV Den
    Dune RV
    Nude DVR
    Runed V
    RUN Ed v
    UV Red N
    Under eve

  22. Forrest,
    Thanks again. I agree with you 100% about wars. That’s why I quit working for the MIC as an aerospace engineer. Most of us we don’t want to contribute to death and destruction but we need an income to live and support our families. I better find your chest soon or I will have to go back to work for them! Lol.

  23. I agree. This search community is awesome in sharing and caring. FF’s traits must be rubbing off on us.

  24. A few minutes on google and I don’t think Plato said it. Apparently MacAuthor attributed it to Plato in a 1962 speech but there doesn’t appear to be any source for it. It is also on a wall in the Imperial War Museum in London and attributed to Plato. The museum opened in 1936 so I am wondering if MacAuthor might have gotten it from the museum. It is unclear how the museum got it. A version was written by George Santayana in 1922 so maybe the museum got it from Santayana and somehow mistakenly attributed it to Plato. Dunno.

  25. Plato said, “Only the dead will know the end of wars.” When are we going to stop this madness? f.
    T.S Eliot said he saw his skull beneath the skin”, so I guess that when we get very old and about to say goodbye, life suddenly becomes sacred, more spiritual, we reach another kind of wisdom, mature wisdom. Maybe the sages should lead the world and not politicians angry for wars, maybe they will whisper us of immortality through peace. Thank you, Mr. Fenn, for great inspiration and valuable insights.

  26. To some war is aracket to make money and gain power. To others it is a means to control the population by reduction. To a few war is a mass human sacrifice to a false god. They are not of us or for us. The battle we fight is this:
    “For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against the spiritual forces of evil in heavenly places.” – Ephesians 6:12.
    We have a personal spiritual struggle.

    • Michael,
      Absolute Truth in what you shared. I applaud your courage to stand for it.

  27. Thank you Forrest. I’m enjoying you stories.

    Now let’s see-

    “signs were planted every 200’ or so along the road going in”


    “all the way to the end, where a makeshift tower was erected.”

    “When are we going to stop this madness? f”

    So am I seeing, there are signs along the trail, rabbit holes are everywhere so stay on the trail to the end, where my makeshift tower is waiting, let’s get this solved.

    Ok imagination at work,

      • Hey JDA,

        I just was looking at the photo on top and had a ahhhh haaa moment. The roads on the bottom separate and look just like my main trail and my put in trail that go to heavy loads and water high.

        Look at my stickman drawing and you’ll see what I mean.

        If I didn’t know better I would say that’s a picture of my search area.


        • Hi Bur;

          YUP, the roads on the map sure seem to match your cartoon of a few months ago. You Just might be on to something. Maybe Forrest was giving you a hint. Good Luck to Ya in the spring – JDA

  28. War will end when all of humanity agrees to uproot it’s very existence. When all Nation’s & all Tribe’s work together; (to form a pact), that will insures the rights & freedoms of all it’s Citizens. These human rights must be agreed upon by all the World. And should anyone, or any Ruler violate any one of these just provisions, than the whole Planet should crush this unjust aggressor, & reduce that Nation to utter submission.

    • The problem is that people of different regions have different needs and just and unjust is just an opinion. Even if country borders were gone there will always be divisions. Even when we all look the same there will be differences. The cosmos and or nature will eventually balance things out, it knows how many chipmunks you can put in a barrel. Eventually though, can be a long time for those who are actually suffering with no reprieve in sight. All is not lost though, I’ve seen it before. When the fix it up chappie was gone, the Sneetches saw they were wrong, and those sneetches on the beaches, each one all together, were singing a happier song. g

        • It seams that the original States had this same problem yet in God they trusted, & established the laws of life liberty, & justice for all. When the Nation’s use this same principle; then they will discover all the major Prophets taught the same spiritual teachings of love, compassion, truthfulness, mercy, benevolence, & justice. “Soon will the present day world order be rolled up, & a new spread out in it’s steed.”

  29. Ken,

    That picture show something a little scary. If that road at the bottom is the road with the tower at the end of it, there were a few close calls with bomb craters. Not to say most craters were to close to begin with from what I see. Wonder who was in the tower when they were dropped? Bet their britches needed cleaning.


  30. My husband is from Luxembourg, right next to this corner of France. When we lived there we visited Verdun. Lots of memorials including an American cemetery.

  31. Thank you for sharing your story, Mr. Fenn. Every night I pray for peace on earth. I hope man will look deep inside and know it begins with them. I can only imagine what it would be like.

  32. ‘A man may love his country and forswear its [king] leaders.’

    I have learned so much researching TTOTC. When I found this quote, it seemed to sum up so much of the world today. Amazing it was a sentiment felt nearly 100 years ago, too. Proving again, it’s only the faces that change.

  33. War will never end if man is in control And I think there is also a lot of hints in this scrapbook forrest wants the chase ended or someone has solved it and to stupid to realize they sent forrest the blaze lol we all need to think and solve this thing .

    • Do you think FF wants to hear our unproven solves? If I were him I’d be banging my head against a tree by now

      • Yes, if the emails are very short, and if they are correct or close. Otherwise, no, they are a burden.

        • E.C,

          That is not always true. I wrote a very lengthy email and he responded –
          “I read your letter x.x.x.x. and found it interesting. It is easy to see that
          you have spent a lot of time trying to figure things out. Good luck to you
          in the future. f”

          So maybe in most cases shorter is better, but I must have had something he recognized in it
          To keep him reading.

          Good luck,

        • E.C., I don’t believe Very short, correct, or close would be steadfast criteria for Forrest. In fact it might lean a bit the other way. X.X.X.X,, I mean Bur would agree. g

    • … and my how times and winds have changed from the number of people who violently disagree about their being related hints in scrapbooks.

  34. The insatiable desire for power will never cease….Forrest “The” is key in the cold water beneath water high looking up at heavy loads with no paddle in my hand searching for the blaze. Lol

  35. Nine scrapbooks, three a week, so far this month. Each one possibly
    packed with special thoughts, subtle hints, hidden clues in plain sight.
    Easily a winters worth of things to think about. And when I think about
    all that Forrest has given us to think about, I start to think, what is it that
    he wants us to not think about?

    • Hi RFISH,

      if Forrest included hidden hints and clues in these 9 SBs they will be visible only to searchers that already solved at least 3-4 clues in poem. Maybe Forrest wants send some signals to these searchers and increase the probability of TC finding in 2020. Maybe he already tired to see this chase and afraid new deaths linked to it.
      And one more thing: Forrest become older and at some point he will not be able to control himself in terms of not disclosing important information about TC location. It is possible that some searchers (that frequently visiting him at Santa Fe) during conversations with Forrest will get this information and use it immediately (without disclosing to other searchers).

  36. The very narrow swath of the road and a makeshift tower were built in order to monitor the gunnery range.

    From the tower the range officer could direct or monitor the strafing of a target.

    The strafing F-100 planes compares to us TC searchers.

    A strafing searcher will soon hit on the TC (live ordinance) that is hidden just under the ground surface at a previously determined clue location (extinct battle field).

    It will be as an explosion and cause panic among the search community.

    Forrest has described the search area quite accurately in this scrapbook.

      • Hi Diggin gypsy,
        I really hope the recent slew of SB’s regarding “trade” (buying and selling) and “wars” is not related to behind the scenes searcher drama as some have claimed. It would be a shame because I for one have put a lot of time and energy into trying to understand the deeper meanings and wouldn’t want these fascinating stories to be tainted with a cloud of searcher greed. “When are we going to stop this madness?f”

  37. Is Forrest also telling us that too many of us are off the correct path. That by straying from the path he mapped out in his poem is very narrow, and we are putting our selves in danger when we need not? His path is safe stay on it, the end will soon arrive, and it’s not more than 200 feet from the path we need to travel.

  38. always looking for hints, like many others. your description mirrors my search area, medical issues caused us to leave the rockies early. going back in the late spring, war anywhere is one of the ugliest things on earth. absolutely love your stories. ty forrest,……vickie

  39. If I may be so bold as to offer up my humble opinion.
    Wars are fought for a couple of reasons; Ideological and or material gain.
    Sadly most government leaders fail to understand that we are all in this together.
    I.E. The human race.

    Looking up into the heavens at night I often wonder if we will survive and pursue the grandest chase of all. The exploration of space. If so I hope that by that time we have matured enough in our understanding that we no longer engage in the war for profit.

    And yes I get it Forrest. Just putting the pieces together in my mind.


  40. I suppose if folks didn’t enlist and refused to serve in the military, that would ‘end the madness’ sooner. I’ve never dropped incendiary bombs nor spewed flesh-ripping shrapnel, so can’t say for sure, but I imagine if folks didn’t engage in war ‘the madness’ would cease.

    Or was it just a rhetorical question?

    • Lol. Yea everyone just go read them 10 commandments in the church yards and lay down your weapons War over . First commandment pretty much sums it up for everyone in the whole world . Or was there exceptions lol

  41. My grandfather was just a kid in Belgium when that first war broke out all around him. He was doing mandatory army reserve service when the next one started. His trench buddy was killed by a falling bomb. They heard it coming and ran in opposite directions.

    The Germans captured Grandpa a few hours later. They sent him off to internment near the Swiss border, where he cooked whatever food they got for his prisoner buddies because his day job was operating his own patisserie. Grandpa would white-lie about what were the real ingredients in the stalag stew.

    My father was only 3.5 years old and alone with my grandma in Brussels. When they reunited four years later, the three of them emigrated to Manitoba so they wouldn’t have to do another one like those two.

    • Hi randawg, the TTOTC page 95 illustration has a lot going on. It’s doubtful ff would approve the artwork if the JH was not what ff wanted. The only reference I can think of is June Heath, but that doesn’t fit with his Air Force days.

      In past years, searchers have discussed…FF’s right eye – on left side drawing looks like a cloaked man (turned sideways); the illustration makes it appear like forrest has a shadowy side, and a normal side; what’s wrong with the nose?; trees on right side look more like wool than trees; figure near heli looks like a zombie with ragged clothing. (These are the opinions of searchers in the past, on another blog – it may have been Chase Chat).

    • JH in my opinion is very significant in one of my solves. I found a blaze that was just that JH carved in a tree . J.H.Brown owned a bunch of the land that I grew up on. I wonder if someone else might have cued in on this too. I wish I could be at the right place at the right time. Maybe we could enjoy some reeses pieces over a hike or jog .

  42. Hello Everyone,

    This chase have been amazing, I have send Forrest my solve but no response yet :(, but guess I will have to wait until next summer. The funny thing is that, when I when I went BOTG on August I was very surprise with my location and I know many are with their solutions. Your solution must be a mirror with the TTOTC and the Poem. What ever you find on the book must reflect the poem and if it doesn’t then you must accept that you are wrong. The bad thing about me going BOTG is difficult due to financial problems, that I know many of us have. I really wish I could share my findings, but there is this strong desired I have to meet Forrest Fenn and I feel that the only way it would happen is if I find that treasure. Is my golden ticket. I hope next summer will be the year I find the treasure chest.

    • The problem is your solution can mirror exactly what is in the poem and still be incorrect. You have to remember Forrest’s other hint’s and clues, As in example ” The TC is not affiliated with any man made structure. Another thing to remember is your answer to each clue must be what Forrest is seeing, other wise you are whistling in the dark like everyone else.

    • The problem is your solution can mirror exactly what is in the poem and still be incorrect. You have to remember Forrest’s other hint’s and clues, As in example ” The TC is not affiliated with any man made structure. Another thing to remember is your answer to each clue must be what Forrest is seeing, other wise you are whistling in the dark like everyone else.

    • The problem is your solution can mirror exactly what is in the poem and still be incorrect. You have to remember Forrest’s other hint’s and clues, As in example ” The TC is not affiliated with any man made structure. Another thing to remember is your answer to each clue must be what Forrest is seeing, other wise you are whistling in the dark like everyone else.

    • If he doesn’t respond it means he likes you. That’s what I keep telling myself. :). I wish you the best of luck. Keep searching.

    • Luis,

      Unless your solve has been exhausted by YOU then keep it to yourself.

      For the most part I see tons of shared ideas but it’s your choice because it’s your hard work. Good luck to you and do your best to finish your Chase off your way.


    • Hi Luis, I felt the same way when I was BOTG, hiking, all the clues lined up except the blaze! I kept feeling it would be right around the next tree or rock! I understand the difficulties of financing a search. Just that couple hundred $ was a real bite out of our budget. It kind of fouled the fun of the trip, thinking about spending money we didn’t really have to spend, even if we were in a beautiful place. Maybe if you make it to Santa Fe, you will chance upon Forrest in the book store. Best of luck in your next search!

  43. When was the last jubilee? So long as mankind is held in captivity whether mentally, physically, monetarily, sexually, or spiritually, he is held out of his truest nature. If not a debt can be forgiven then what slight can ever be forgotten? If one gets a good deal then perhaps another gets a bad?

    If a man goes to work and then goes to the tax folks to pay his dues, how is it that they can get away with making him pay more than he earned in those years? So much madness comes from the slavery of humanity and the actions to drug, jail or kill the effects without a consideration of a cause nor a change to the seeds of our existence. With a major religion that keeps it’s God on an instrument of torture and forged out of every material under the sun, it should be no surprise that any man would lose his heart and mind.

    Liberation of man is the only way to freedom and health of humanity.

    Going to go water my Norfolk pines. Thank you Forrest, for all you do <3

    • Aureate;

      Did I miss something? What did your post have to do with this SB or the Chase in general? Sure, Forrest ended this post saying:

      “In some places the residuals of war last on for many years after the formal fighting has stopped. Verdun is one of them.

      Plato said, “Only the dead will know the end of wars.” When are we going to stop this madness?” f

      I just do not see a connection between your words and Forrest’s. This is Forrest’s Chase, so I guess that he can post whatever he chooses – does this give each of us the right to publish our particular religious, political or personal points of view of humanity – for me, I think not.

      One of the things that I love about Dal’s site is that it is mostly devoid of “Chatter” that is not related to the “Chase”. – JMO – JDA

      • JDA,

        yes, yes it’s quite possible you have missed somethings. Would that surprise you? That anything has been held back from your understanding?

        In some places the residuals of war last on…

        My own biological father was drafted into WWII in his 30’s, with a wife and 4 children. not sure when he divorced but he was never quite the same after from what was told. Later, he married again and divorced and then married my mother she was 41 and he 53. He left her 6 months pregnant and so I never met him, nor ever saw a photo. I did have the fortune if you can call it that to read his decades of medical reports.

        The missiles in Cuba had been drawn back about 20 days before my birth in south Florida, though it’s doubtful the shipments of enforcement that continued for years gave much security to the people that lived near the railroads, so we moved west with a marine paratrooper that had been splattered with shrapnel on his first jump into enemy territory, Korean War.

        One of his eyes was all swirled of blue and white and made him look really scary, he was a roofer by trade so he was built like a tank and his skin as red to boot in the Phoenix sun, never once got the impression he feared anything. He would later adopt my sister and I but he left one day when we were teenagers and we never heard from him again.

        JDA, since it’s important to you for all to fall in line with “what you love” and “what you think” would a request for a study in comprehension be too much to ask?

        What if all that befalls mankind is rooted in the same thing JDA? Would it be better to judge, criticize and censor the squell or find out what it means?

        As a female, a little over a hundred pounds, no fighting skills, no car, or money would never be able to retrieve a treasure chest without it being stolen by those around and that’s the residuals of wars. Everyone would want their share according to their opinions and I’m still wondering when the freedom that my fathers, husband and multitudes of servicemen like Forrest fought so hard for could ever come about without having to be dead.

        Knick, knack paddywhack, give a dog a bone.

        • Auteate;

          You say, “JDA, since it’s important to you for all to fall in line with “what you love” and “what you think” would a request for a study in comprehension be too much to ask?”

          What is it that I need to comprehend REGARDING THE CHASE?

          I do not know where you have gotten the above impression. In NO way do I want – ” for all to fall in line with “what you (I) love” and “what you (I) think” .

          I offer opinions about the poem and how I interpret it. Nothing that I have posted (as far as I can remember) has ever related to my personal, political or religious beliefs.

          It appears that you want to use this forum as your soap box. I will leave it to Dal, whether he finds this appropriate – I certainly do not. Just how I see this blog – JDA

          • Passions are running on all sides of the fence these days. I don’t believe in censorship if the discussion is pertinent to the goings on, in this case the SB. This SB was about a “war zone” (note the quotes) and humanity. People who share their voice respectfully should not be shot down, or edited, as I was when I provided a link on THOR to Sacha’s side of the coin story. We are all interpreting these SB’s and how they may relate to the Chase. Sometimes these interpretations could draw on personal influences as Aureate’s did. As long as comments are respectful I do not see a problem. JDA, I do not see how Aureate’s comment was disrespectful or inappropriate. You may not see a connection to her words, others may. War, religion and politics are fair game IMO, all of which have been brought up in recent SB’s. One of the recent SB’s depicted a church. Was Forrest specifically singling out that religion, all religion or was it not about religion at all but rather spirituality. Everyone has a voice. If a comment is not disrespectful, let each of us decide for ourselves if we think it is relevant or not. Let’s take moment and breathe.

          • Given how the words of the poem are ambiguous and all over the board when trying to assign a theme, I suspect “saint” is a hint to at least one of the clues. My bet is on Elmo, WY.

        • JDA,
          Aureate’s post is her perspective and I believe it was posted in the spirit of this SB.
          Many served in the military to protect our freedoms, including the freedom of speech, and the freedom to disagree, freedoms you both elected to exercise.
          You both have valid points with support to back those points up, and could choose to debate your positions here.
          Not all wars were started because of the terrible human traits that have been already mentioned here, though they certainly become part of it at some point. A simple misunderstanding between two people is all it takes.

          • Silverknight;

            Thanks for your post. I am one of those that served in Vietnam – twice – I know TOO much about war.

            We can agree, or disagree about whether this forum is the place to voice personal beliefs – JDA

          • JDA,
            Thank you for your service.
            I can not imagine how difficult it was to come home from Vietnam to a turbulent nation, and some who was ungrateful.

            I salute you, O7

          • Thank you SilverKnight and JDE!

            JDA, have you solved The poem yet? Every letter, word, line and stanza? As the answer is no, then there is much to comprehend but my comment is about comprehension of other peoples words in general, not just mine.

            Mankind has fallen out of nature and all the woes come to fro. A jubilee is a part of nature just as a sabbath, and all life forms still flow in the pattern of nature that are free to. Humankind has been omitted from it, by who?

            If a person corners a wild animal what is to be expected? Perhaps the person is bigger or has a gun, who then is the slave? What if the animal doesn’t like being cornered and attacks the person, has the animal gone bad? Or what if the animal surrenders, what would it be then?

            All lathered up now…

  44. Desperately wishing to avoid this terrible conflict, Lincoln ended with this his first inaugural in an impassioned plea:

    I am loath to close. We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory, stretching from every battlefield and patriot grave to every living heart and hearthstone all over this broad land, will yet swell the chorus of the Union, when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.

    Many pointed out earlier that We, the USA have not been attacked by “Foreign Powers” very often, but these indelible words by Lincoln should remind US that we are the only power to worry about, yes we did have wars, the Indian Wars, Civil War and I assure you those were wars of which Lincoln who wrote the words above in 1961, just before the start of the bloodiest of conflicts in American History, per ca-pita, much worse than either Great WW1 or WWII, my fellow Americans, Civil War is our worst enemy. Let us be like ff and Mr Lincoln, and find the better angles of our nature. Bring home the troops and carry a big stick…thanksI have always been fond of the West African proverb: “Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far.” Teddy got credit for popularizing this one. and this one too:
    .. “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”


    • TT,

      I particularly like these;

      “If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn’t sit for a month.”

      “When you’re at the end of your rope, tie a knot and hold on.” And.

      “The only man who never makes mistakes is the man who never does anything.”


    • My sweet mother who like Forrest was from a small town in Texas and like ff also lost her hearing became a gifted writer and poet, so much so that her poetry was read by the president of the USA, “LBJ”. Backstory was that I had enlisted in the Navy in January of 1964 and in October of that year I volunteered for duty in Vietnam being an “Amphibious Sailor” we were needed. Now my mother who supported the troops, since her brothers had all served in WWII, and was a patriotic “MOM” and because she could see that “President Lyndon B Johnson” was becoming depressed with the war effort she wanted to help cheer him up, she was acquainted with and knew Lady Bird that was the key to raising his (LBJ’s) spirit so she snuck a few poems into to her distant friend and as we called her “little bird” and suddenly somehow the Assistant Secretary of the Navy, Charles F. Baird was assigned by “LBJ” to send my mother a response in the form of a letter addressed to her on September 26, 1966, the letter from Secretary Baird acknowledged that the President was very gratify-ed to read her poems and letter in support of the Vietnam effort and he was touched by those like her who had loved ones serving, he even sent photos of our UDT team 21 and some the Recon teams that my “High Speed Transport” had carried, needless to say I was not a member of the ” elite teams”, but I did help deliver them a few times then got the hell out of there…this chapter of my life is heart warming for me to read and see now, over 50 year later, but small efforts, like my mom’s can have a big impact on morale and words spoken or written can have a far reaching impact, the pen is and always and will be mightier than the sword for it should be first to assuage intense feelings and will always be the last to write an (epitaph) inscription on the tombs, the the final solution to conflict such as war. I treasure and cherish the letter, her poems and her memory…

      America would do well to always remember that, other wise we might continue to see endless wars. Please bring home the troops.


      • Dear TT,
        Such a nice story about your mom and the her ‘help’ during the war. We should all do what we can in times of need to assist those who are suffering. War is terrible and costs so many lives in addition to the the soldiers who are fighting. Sometimes a ‘hug’ in the form of a poem, a note or a kind gesture, can go l long way. Anger and sadness are insidious, therefore, forgiveness is key to resolving conflict. Please take care, and get some rest.
        Your friend.

    • Not 1961, my bad, 1861 just before the Civil War….sorry got my #’s Dyslexia-ed up..

      Anyway thanks for all the kind words….I LIKE!!


  45. One thing for sure is Dal will never find it, no matter how much he sucks up to Forrest. Dal could be given 8 of the clues and still not find the treasure.

      • LOL I personally will have to say if toughshed is who I think it is, he should probally not answer that yet . If it is who I am thinking I was hoping that that offer for a private investor was still available? And no I still haven’t made it to mexico lol

      • Trolling seems to be a common theme, I have had many who critized but like my Teddy Quote above, it is not the critic but the one who does or attempts to do that counts… Dal I for one admire your tenacity! You are probably the LEAD DOG sir…


    • Yo… back down with the bashing. Dal provides the best site for everything Fenn and he runs a pretty tight ship without *sucking up* to anyone. Best move along…

    • You might have to eat your words. What if the lead searcher invites Dal along on the final search? He has done so much for the search community. Thanks, Dal, and don’t let these naysayers stop you if you know where the chest is!

      • There cannot be a lead searcher when there is no way to confirm one’s progress unless they find it. There is finder, and not-finder. Which one are you?

        • Of course there is a lead searcher. They may not know they are but the lead searcher is the woman who has identified the most correct clues in order to Forrest. And maybe (or maybe not) Forrest winks at them once in a while in one of his scrapbooks. I don’t understand why people refuse to acknowledge that or why the concept distresses some. If someone is ahead of me then that motivates me to do better. Why refuse to acknowledge that someone may be way ahead of you and/or why get depressed about it?

          • I completely agree. Of course there’s someone closer than the overwhelmingly vast majority. With the diversity of people’s solves and the fact that there’s only one that’s correct, the idea of someone who’s on the correct path and further along than the rest, is inevitable. The only way that’s not true would be if no one at all has found the correct starting point and we know that’s not the case per Forrest’s statements. Not only does he say that many people have identified the first clue but he goes on at other points to describe, the first two clues being solved and later saying perhaps the first 3-4 solves. And let’s not forget that someone from that group has been as close as 500 ft and then later on, as close as 200 ft. Of course there’s a lead searcher. However, to claim knowledge of the sex of such an individual, is clearly speculation and conjecture.

          • I’m def not depressed or discouraged about it. My point is this a Boolean solution and we won’t know if we are close until we have the chest. There is no ability to confirm our results. My annoyance with the term “lead searcher” or that one exists is usually the implication that the poster is the lead searcher. This thinking makes no progress, is truly folly, both in my experience as having been guilty of thinking it, and witnessing it.

          • And beyond that, I think there’s a bunch of people who’s experiences have all but confirmed they are on the right track and just sit here monitoring Forrest’s words and those of the search community. Perhaps they just watch or interact by speaking of generalities but there’s no doubt in my mind that they are as tight lipped as they come. Who would gamble with the idea of turning others on to a path that they feel is correct and leads to the pot of gold.

            Honestly, as much as appreciate what others share in there solves, I think reaching a point where one is willing to hand it over to the community for insight, is the first tell tale sign that as brilliant, creative or imaginative your solve may be, the dead end that leads to the leak of info is in all probability where that brilliance ends and the idea of being wrong begins.

          • Oh my goodness. The chase is anything and everything BUT boolean. Using an and/or switch in a computer program is boolean. Boolean searchers – tell me where you’re searching so I know where Not to look. Now that’s boolean! If you’re there then I’m not! Boolean!

          • Warlock;

            As I interpret what E.C. has written, E.C. sees the search as either on or off – Solved, or not solved. No shades in-between. He sees us all as “Zero’s” and not “Ones.” because none of us have yet found Indulgence.

            Just how I interpret what E.C. has posted – JMO – JDA

          • JDA – You’re right and I understand that. But birth and death are Boolean if you use his convoluted logic so there’s no point in doing anything while you’re alive. You’re either born or dead. But I believe there is a lot to do in between the two just as there is with starting the search and finding the chest. A person can claim thet ANY two things are Boolean. It’s just a silly way to look at things. Also incorrect. The chase in no way Boolean. That’s what I’m saying.

          • Do you have the chest? Yes/No

            That’s all I’m saying. There is no confirmation to know any fraction of 9 out of 9.

          • E. C.
            I disagree with much of the search community on this idea, that the chase and the solving of the clues, comes with no confirmers. This is why:

            Forrest implies from the get go, that the clues are precise. That the poem is a blueprint and like any map will take you where you want to go if you KNOW HOW to read it.

            “The poem is not so much written as it is an architectural plan.” – EIS Radio / Aug. 8, 2013 / 3:10

            This is why he says, there is certainly AN OPPORTUNITY for someone to find his chest. This is why he believes the searcher who eventually finds the chest will have MOVED DELIBERATELY & WITH CONFIDENCE…

            The searcher who finds the chest will most likely walk right to it and leave quietly. “My TTOTC book is enough to lead an average person to the treasure.”

            “But there’s one thing, I think, one important thing, that no one has thought about – that on the blogs no one has thought about it – if they had thought about that, they might have found the treasure. And I’m very careful not to tell anybody what that thing is.” – German Playboy interview by Alexander Neumann-Delbarre / Sept. 2018 / 39:20

            Forrest also has said that you need to “nail down” the first clue – obviously he thinks there is a way to do this.

            Further he goes on to say that after you have the starting point the rest of the clues “[are] contiguous. I knew where I wanted to hide the treasure chest. So it was easy for me to put one foot down and then step on it to get to the next foot.” – Moby Dicken’s Interview / 47:00

            Therefore I’m assert that if a searcher is on the right track the clues will be chain-linked or forged together allowing us to move from one correct position to the next.

            The correct interpretation of the clues are self supportive and self confirming.



          • GCG, what you’re saying in that the person on the right path of solving the poem is able to self-confirm is what everyone searching believes about themselves. But at the end of everyone’s botg day, what do they have? As of today and as far as everyone knows, still nothing. It is still “have” or “not have”. No leader, no confirmation.

          • EC. I I think I understand the premise you’ve been trying to drive home on this concept as of late. But, to me at least, I think something is getting lost in translation.

            If you were to say there is winning searcher and not winning searcher, then that would absolutely be the cut and dry of it. But that doesn’t appear to be what you’re saying. You seem to be rallying against the idea that there is someone closer to the solve than the rest. If that is your agenda, than I wholeheartedly disagree. Of course there is a lead searcher. And my money is on the idea that the real mystery lies in when the solve will end or not and not if you’re on the correct solve. I absolutely think this poem sings to the person with the correct area in a way that’s unimaginable.

          • To EC and Double a,

            There is a very big difference between being Brave and Bravado.

            I believe that what many (if not most) searchers are experiencing is what I’ll term as a “false sense of confidence.” Most people don’t even know what this word really means…

            Forrest says as much and further amplifies this by saying he is surprised but most people don’t dwell enough on the first clue and this means most people (searchers) are having an expensive folly…

            So please don’t confuse what I’m asserting with what most searchers are doing in the chase because when I use words like CHAIN-LINKED or FORGED, this is exactly what I mean – it’s not a guess or a feeling but genuine confirmers that can be corroborated by the subtle hints in TTOTC’s stories.

            Remember: “Success is the omniscient guru.” Nov. 11, 2016 / Mysterious Writings


            For example

          • Hey MCB,

            Oh I’m still in the game BUT weighing whether to share with everyone what I have discovered and turn the search over to the community at large or o stay in it one more season.

            I told my wife only 24 months – it seemed reasonable to dedicate 18 to 24 months IF I actually found something definitive relative to the clues. And I did find the definitive answer to WWWH and the next 3 clues. That is why I was so confident in the prior year 2018. I felt that based on what Forrest had said relative to first few clues I was going to be capable of going BOTG and figuring the rest out on location. When I wasn’t successful I spent the whole winter of 2018-2019 working on the next 5 clues and although not FORGED they were tight enough to go back again this summer in July. This time I did have a break-through on site relative to clues 5, 6, & 7 but I still couldn’t bring home the final gold medal.

            So I spent the next two months working with what I had learned, to see if I could figure out the last 2 clues were – Exactly…

            I didn’t figure them out exactly but I went back regardless hoping that I could pick back up from Clue #7. But instead I discovered that what I had thought was geographical location of clue #7 wasn’t correct…

            Once again I was stopped from progressing and my on-site investigation didn’t yield any new insights like the 7 days I spent in July had done.

            The thing is I’m not playing a guessing game, I’m not poking around under bushes hoping I’ll suddenly find the treasure; I’m thinking and when the clues are figured out correctly, they are rock solid & verifiable. No question about it!

            The process is a balance between deep thinking and not over complicating and then verification of the geographical feature.

            I know if I share what I’ve figured out with the larger community, those people smarter than me will be able to figure it out. Or a someone or some group could just dedicate enough time to the location next year to finally get it – as Forrest says this is difficult but NOT impossible.

            I want the chest found in Forrest lifetime at some point I have to make a decision…


          • GCG – I sympathize with your current dilemma about your solve and sentiment about finding it in Forrest’s lifetime. Progress in this chase can oftentimes grind to a halt because the clues are not easy (imo). Tincture of time may help.

    • Toughshed,
      Without Dal, we would be spinning our little webs in silence, instead of sharing them. I for one, am greatly enjoying others webs. Even the philosophical ones.

  46. Touching, sombre, draped in black. They called it THE GREAT WAR, the war to end all wars.

    The Green Fields Of France / Dropkick Murphys
    The ballad of Willy McBride

  47. Toughshed, your comments about Dal are inaccurate and unkind.

    Regular bloggers here know Dal for his honesty, fairness, intellect & whit…not to mention he’s an accomplished military diver, TV producer, writer, and runs AN EXCELLENT WEBSITE.

  48. There is no doubt IMO. The chase would not have become what it is without Forrest, Jenny, and Dal around. Kudos y’all. Crazy ride. I have learned a lot. Proof positive and a testament to, I just spelled Kudos and doubt right, first try, no spell check. Can you imagine, me! At least I think I spelled them right. g Oh, and I just used my first ever exclamation point. Feels kinda good but it took me a while to find. Who would put such a powerful thing way up in the corner?

  49. Reminds me of a book, all quiet on the western front. Trench warfare and stalemates. Very unfortunate war and the world seems to have forgotten how it changed us.☹️

  50. Forrest could you write another scrapbook and tell us about the first time you were shot down, your purple heart, or your final mission you flew in Vietnam?

  51. We’ve seen a similar scenario in Laos, where still, thousands of unexploded cluster bombs lay dormant in the ground. There’s an international effort going on to disarm these dormant bombs. We visited one of the areas where technicians were removing and disarming bombs. Cleared areas were marked in a similar fashion you’ve described, mostly using cairns, some with tall sticks in the middle, all spaced a couple hundred feet apart.
    At one spot there was an animal corral that seemed to be blown up by a bomb. The corral’s fence posts were scattered around, with only one log holding on to a tree by a piece of wire.
    Escorted, we were allowed to enter the area and walk at least 1,000 feet, all the way to the end of the cleared path.
    Thank you for the story Mr. Fenn.

  52. The ground were those peaceful places are, have history of a time that was chaotic and ugly. God bless those families that sacrificed so much. I can’t even imagine the pain of being in a war. I thank veterans every chance I get.

  53. I see the casualty numbers are off according to Wikipedia but I’m sure that’s just an honest mistake… In 2000, Hannes Heer and K. Naumann calculated that the French suffered 377,231 casualties and the Germans 337,000, a total of 714,231 and an average of 70,000 a month. How ever the old number for German Causalities was 143,000, the 303 days is correct!!

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