Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Ninety

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602 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Ninety

  1. Starting over on this page..
    1. Cite your Quotes preferably with a link to the original quote
    2. This is for odds n ends not covered in other discussion pages. There are pages for discussions about the poem, the nine clues, the hidey spot, the key word, poetry and more…Discussions should take place on the most relevant page…
    If you don’t know if there is a page for your topic click on Searchers Discussions and read the list and click on the most relevant page and make your comment there. If you can’t find a relevant page then odds n ends will do..

    • Hello Dal,

      Hope all is well with you this holiday season. Can you confirm that Forrest is doing well and just taking a break from scrapbooks for the holidays, or is he indeed done with posting scrapbooks? I don’t care about any hints, just miss hearing from him. Hope you have a wonderful Christmas and New Year!

      • I second the question Dal. I am missing his stories, but also realize he’s got more important things to do than entertain me. Just hope he’s doing well. Thanks!

      • Blue-
        It is my opinion that Forrest wrote that engaging procession of scrapbooks because fifty or so more new stories simply revealed themselves to him. He has always written scrapbooks as they unfolded in his mind and this last round was no different.

        Forrest is an engaging storyteller and has a strong moral resolve about the value of life experiences…good and bad. There is no doubt that collecting and trading has been the guiding impetus for most of (but not all of) Forrest’s conscience adventures. Many people today will never have the privilege to live the life of a collector or trader. That window of opportunity gets increasingly narrow in our urban-based and cyber-sourced culture…just as have the occupations associated with exploring untrammeled lands or trading along the ancient merchant highways of Europe and Asia. I am what I read.

        Unfortunately…or fortunately, depending on your point of view, society has advanced past string collecting and milkmen and school principals taking the entire summer off to fish and think and explore.

        Searchers are a particularly well equipped audience for Forrest’s stories because most of us have a curious hunger for adventure, wanderlust and a unique experience. I think Forrest understands that mental state because he suffered from it himself as he studied the lives of Henry Sharp, the Conquistadors, Sacajawea and the even the folks who peopled his pueblo at San Lazaro.

        Stories can only come after ideas for stories have exposed themselves. Sometimes that happens once in a lifetime and sometimes that happens twice in a moment. The mind is a devious partner.

        • Thanks, Dal, for your answer to my comment. I’m glad Forrest is okay, and hopefully having a wonderful holiday season. I think many of us were swept away by the avalanche of stories and feeling something is missing without them. Hopefully, Forrest will find some inspiration to write again soon.

          Happy Holidays and best wishes for 2020!

        • Wow, dal! I just wanted to give you a quick “Bravo!” to what you wrote. I hope you and your family have a Merry Christmas this year!

    • When I posted in the last odds n ends I am sorry that I did not get the quote precisely as it was stated by f. Due to that little brain fart I was not able to search for the actual citation. All that I could recall was something about the treasure not being associated with and human structure or in proximity to a trail.
      Here is a citation by f that clarified the location of the treasure and where to avoid.

    • The best advice I can offer is to find the treasure you need to match one important chapter to a place on the map. Forrest has said that the person who finds it will know with no uncertainty and that statement couldn’t be more true. I have to follow forum rules so I will say it like this. In my opinion you don’t need any mathematics. No need to count stanzas. No need to endanger yourself or others and no need to walk more than a mile and a half to get to this location. Also in my opinion both books have an abundance of clues. They are subtle only before you know the location. Once you have found the location the clues hit you in the head. For me. The books got me close. Then I followed the poem and then I matched the important chapter to the exact location. That is when you need to just put yourself in that spot in your mind. Maybe that’s the imagination part . After that I went back in the book and found every clue. So many clues and most of them are all together bringing you to one place very close and one word in the poem will then seal the deal. This treasure is real. This location is real. This man is the real deal and I’m about to go make my final trip. I. Going to document it for you all .Bringing the go pro once again and just because my life has always been lived as the thrill of the chase I want to make things more interesting by telling you all in my opinion THE CHEST IS IN MONTANA! Happy searching and you will hear again from me soon. The mountains are beckoning me!

  2. I can’t understand why anyone would attempt to find the treasure without the books TTOTC and TFTW. Without them, you are at a huge disadvantage, IMO.

    • I have not read either of them. Perhaps your philosophy of not having read them , puts one at a disadvantage and somewhat of an information deficiency. But so far in the 9 to 10 years in history of the chase , that doesn’t seem to justify said means to the no end as of yet. If one can identify the sprinkled hints in those books, those mystery coloured candy sprinkles in them have not really shown your said theory as an absolute need to complete the delicacy of the cake. IMO . There’s always some substance of value in all his literary works . I think his SB’s are equally valuable , if not even more so, as literary sprinkles. Me thinks the SB’s are more like Icing than sprinkles though. Being as he even published a book with 40 of them in it and he just wrote another 40+ SB’s in less than 2 months. Does history provide evidence that such a flurry of SB’s is a repeating pattern?

      I don’t know for sure of anything of these matters. Do you? Is any of this obvious?


      SB243 quote:

      “…..where is your evidence, please show me your evidence?” Why do we arbitrarily believe things that we’ve been told? Just because someone said it doesn’t make it true.”

      Unless you have some evidence to the contrary?

      Perhaps the next season will provide some evidence?

      In my opinion. 🙂

      • The evidence is plain as the nose on one’s face. *** The names of the books are buried in the poem!!! *** Duh? How could anyone miss that? I’m baffled. And look, the book titles match even in the capitalization letter-by-letter. If you missed that, how are you gonna decipher the more difficult aspects of the puzzle?

        • Mr. Obvious. The evidence you prescribe is not much more than being subjective because of the words and capitalizations in one book match the words in poem; rather than the “very subtle” hints to clues that the master had said is in TTOTC.

          FF quote- “Here is what I would do. Read my book in a normal manner. Then read the poem over and over and over, slowly – thinking. Then read my book again, this time looking for subtle hints that will help solve the clues.”FF

          Similar FF Quote :

          “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search.”FF

          He also said there is a “riddle in my poem”, not a ‘puzzle’ as you say.

          On the Road with Charlie – Part One

          FENN: “Well, it’s hidden in a pretty good place. It’s difficult to find, but it certainly isn’t impossible. But if you’re gonna find the treasure, you’re gonna have to solve the riddle that’s in my poem. The nine clues that are in my poem. Nobody’s gonna happen on that treasure chest.”

          Being as his other book TFTW is missing the first three words, NFB , that are in the poem. Also suggests that that line in that stanza may not be one clue of the 9 clues either- for that stanza ( paraphrasing) sounds like 3 or 4 clues to him .

          Baffled huh. What’s the difference between a puzzle and a riddle?

          IMO .

          • Mr. A-
            The clues are subtle. They aren’t gonna hit you over the head. I’m not sure if even a sledge hammer would get your attention.

          • Mr. Obvious. Perhaps if the subtle hints were to hit me over the head ,I’d would then see them as clues rather than hints. Lol. It’s very subtle HINTS , not clues , that are said to be in the book. Confirmation bias can lead to an endemic of seeing what one believes , even though it’s clearly not written as one interprets it in their mind .

            The one thing about my approach that is being challenged for being different than yours. Is that there is no evidence to the contrary ( yours) approach that that is of a much greater benefit-in reading the book(s); than that of mine that it is of the choosing of the not reading the book(s). I am, at this moment in time, comfortable with my deductions from all information that’s available to me.

            Perhaps if the hammer was made of sponge , the evidence would be made clearer. By all means, do show me the evidence that either approach is better or lesser to a potential result. For at the moment , every thought is but only a potential.

            This is a humorous debate , when as an opinion sounds as if it is of a nut of a similar sound. 🙂

            IMO .

          • Alsetenash: there certainly can be advantages to shielding oneself from information overload, particularly if they have John Nash-type tendencies. But you read the Scrapbooks, yes? Watch Fenn interviews and bookstore appearances? If so, I submit that if you’ve read even half of the SBs, you’ve exposed yourself to more raw material than is contained in TTOTC.

            The only way I see “logic” in avoiding the books is if you also avoid all the Scrapbooks, Vignettes, MW Six Questions and Q&A’s, and all of the Forrest Fenn interviews and videos. To do otherwise is to specifically clutter and bias your thoughts with information that Forrest has never suggested is helpful, to the exclusion of the very resource (TTOTC) that he said would be.

            Yes, you say that even without the book, you feel you’ve extracted the useful nuggets (or enough of them) that would be found within it based on book information that has been shared online. I think that’s a risky assumption on your part, because you are limiting yourself to snippets from the book(s) that OTHER people think are important. As a result, you’re drawing conclusions based on incomplete information that has been pre-filtered by searchers who have completely different ideas about the poem than you do.

          • Zaphod. I really do appreciate yours and others TTOTC IQ. The voices of reason trying to help me help myself in avoiding , in what appears to be , self limiting concepts that may hinder my ability to develop a winning solve. I appreciate that .

            I certainly don’t think that my approach is a superior way of thinking. I don’t compare mine to yours or anyone’s. I stated my methodology and it brought about a fantastic challenge of insightful debate of contrasts. It’s definitely (well I presume anyways) not that you all want to help me solve this and find it-before all of yous lolol. Most here wants to be the sole finder. With their true ideas, solves and location tightly duct taped to the chest. Lol

            I am just curious in a kinship means and manner- So why the challenge of my methodology? Is it because you are unsure of your own methodology? So far the mainstream concept of reading the poem and looking for subtle hints for clues in the books hasn’t produced tangible results in 9-10’years and countless BOTG performed by using that methodology.

            It would appear that I’m the least likely searcher to ever find it, lol.

            John Nash tendencies? I may be a bit of the Aspergers , but being it is a wonderful gift.

            I’ve enjoyed this interaction.

            IMO .

          • Hi Alsetenash: at the end of the day there is a camaraderie in this shared Fenn aflliction. 😉 I think of you all as my friends (even if virtual), and I suppose my overly logical approach to solving problems causes me to do a bit of a double-take when someone else uses an approach that fails my *personal* logic sniff test. Something for me to add to my New Years resolutions: let people approach problems the way they want to, since what works for me could fail utterly for them, and vice versa.

            Fenn’s treasure hunt is a bit weird in at least one respect: we all like to think we’re helping others by “sharing” our hard-researched information. Yet this behavior is nonsensical from a competitive standpoint. Why would anyone want to help their opponents? After all, there is only one prize — so why the magnanimity? An interesting study in human psychology!

          • Alset: side note that you may not have read regarding your comment: “He also said there is a “riddle in my poem”, not a ‘puzzle’ as you say.”

            He has used both words. In the March 2019 Q&A workshop with kids that Jenny shared:

            Q4: “You said start where warm water stops, but how can warm water stop? Does it stop when it is cold?”

            A4: “Those questions are part of the puzzle you have to figure out.”

            Interestingly, “riddles” were included in Forrest’s long list of SB 62 examples of searchers overrating the complexity of the search.

          • Zaphod. Ya , to his “puzzle” reference:

            Q4: “You said start where warm water stops, but how can warm water stop? Does it stop when it is cold?”
            A4: “Those questions are part of the puzzle you have to figure out.”

            I see it as that the puzzle was in the question about wwwsh. The riddle is in the poem. That was my reference in my post about the difference between the two. Man you’re good at finding quotes! Lol.

            Learning FF’s comms is quite the task that is a challenge. There’s a certain way he writes in a particular style sometimes that when I see it , it triggers much thought. It’s when he writes in a riddle style that gets me going.

            Like in SB 246:

            “And now to my country song. It’s calledCold Coffee in a Hot Cup. f”.

            Is this a riddle? Ah! He had mentioned/wrote something similar in the past and this is a nod to that past writ. I read that prior writ and I’m trying to figure it out. I have ideas but he’s created a look back to a puzzle from a puzzle that might now make sense? Or is it , was it, a riddle? He does this a few times in the SB’s.

            Riddles, puzzles and coffee this morning.

            IMO .

    • Alsetenash: why do you willingly hobble yourself? Do you worry that you’re overly susceptible to hare holes? It can’t be a question of finances: TTOTC costs a fraction of the gas money of a single BOTG search.

      • Zaphod. Hobble myself as in to hinder? It is a choice of mine to not read the two books, yes. I will read them after the chase is complete, but not before. This may seem illogical or to the improper defined definition by saying-counter intuitive. People say counter intuitive in terms that actually mean as a counter to logic ,habitual training-the conditioning of training to perform a certain task. Intuition is non of those. Intuition is listening/following ones innate wisdom prompts.

        Like, as in, my quote from SB237 above. He built that entire SB story around the Intent of saying that quote. That quote might be the tight focus purpose intent of that whole SB . Look at that SB from a logical perspective for a moment . Look at ,or listen to, that SB from the innate wisdom perspective for a moment .Put aside the emotional aspect that the story triggers, for a moment.

        FF relative quotes:

        “Here is what I would do. Read my book in a normal manner. Then read the poem over and over and over, slowly – thinking. Then read my book again, this time looking for subtle hints that will help solve the clues.” FF

        “They will have to figure out the clues before they can find it….Read the clues in my poem over and over and study maps of the Rocky Mountains. Try to marry the two. “FF

        “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search. F”

        There is enough information of the book contents posted within the network that within those, are the sprinkles that I have identified. Identified by reading the poem over and over . Established by that process, I believe I have a handshake of relative sprinkles that are proposed to be in the book ; that are married to vow within the poem. IMO

        Indeed there could be more than what I am able to see within the network. But I have enough , in my opinion ,that is outside of the left brain confirmation bias syndrome. There’s well over a couple hundred BOTG performed by just a handful of veterans that have read the books over and over , over the past 9-10 years.

        Concerned about rabbit holes you say?

        In my opinion.

        • Alsetenash,
          I understand your methodology, but I too think you may be leaving some cards on the table by not using the books for insight. I think they help one to make connections in the background of the author, which allow for certain inferences to be mulled over and assumed or cast aside. “Any little bit of something is better than nothing.”
          Also, I think it is an err to compare oneself with other searchers, because there will be only one finder, and if you’re in it to win it, you have to have supreme confidence in your analysis.

          • RonnyLee-,Quoting you: ” I think it is an err to compare oneself with other searchers”. I agree with you. Though I wasn’t comparing myself to other searchers. I was adding a contrast example to the point of the notion of ” Alsetenash: why do you willingly hobble yourself? -by Zap. That is more or less saying I am hobbling myself in comparison to those that have read the books ,to having not read the books. So essentially, my point was pointing out that in this now junction of the chase, there is no evidence to substantiate in which to compare any results to having read or not having read the books. The current results of the 9 to 10 years of the chase, do not give credence via evidence to that of someone being “hobbled” by not reading the books.

            That’s what I meant.

            I don’t compare, but I had to use a means, that means, to show the contrast of my point.

            I have confidence within myself, it may not be supreme; but very little to do with arrogance- I hope. That would be fooling the foolishness of an egos desire to be right; that drama may cause blindness and bias . IMO lol.

            IMO .

          • LOL is right… ’tis a conundrum. I’m just saying if all previous interpretation is error, then your adding the volumes could be the factotum that produces non-error. But of course, that is your decision to make.

          • RonnyLee. It’s all good. The SB’s are very interesting. They are a great teacher ; teachings within by the author . Forrest is sure good at writing in literary code. IMO .

          • My approach is less about coded and nuanced language and more about trying to understand the man. I think that’s wherein lies the solve. Language plays it’s part, but biography is more important, IMO.

        • Hi Alsetenash: yes, I did mean “hobble” in the sense of hindering by denying yourself an important resource. Forrest enumerated only three: “Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map. f” I just wondered if there was some philosophical reason one would willingly avoid one of the few things that Forrest called out as “excellent.”

          Yes, he has said all you need is the poem. But he has also said the book will help: “You can find the chest with just the clues, but there are hints in the book that will help you with the clues.” (Report from Santa Fe with Lorene Mills 5/13/2011.)

        • Alsetenash,

          In the “technical” sense, you are 100% correct. No retrieval with the books = no retrieval without the books.

          I would call it a purist approach per se…Maybe even somewhat spiritual in that sense.

          Don’t think I didn’t enjoy you three conversing. I can see both sides. Interesting approach…


          • Hey ByGeorge, thanks for that. Basically, yes, there’s a meeting at zero point between the two contrasted points. Having both opinions being equally substantial at the moment . Forrest’s advice referenced here, is coming from a place of full knowing. He knows everything within his creation precisely . As a searcher, I’m coming in cold to try and figure the poem out. I basically know/knew nothing about the USA RM’s and even those 4 states. I know not much more about the Canadian RM’s either, though I’ve been in and around them all my life. They are huge!

            That’s why I focused mainly on the poem at first. I find it’s good to know what I don’t know, so I know what it is that I need to learn.

            IMO .

        • Alsetenash – in my opinion it would take a miracle for someone to find the chest without having read the books. Maybe you should treat yourself to one or all 3 books for Christmas.

          • I agree, without the TTOTC you cannot get to WWWH, it is in there. All you need is that book, a good map, the poem. The S.B’s are confirmations.

          • HMA- let me start with a FF Quote:

            “I don’t want to broaden the clues and hints I’ve written about by pointing them out. What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve.”FF

            Like I said previous, I’ll read them when the chase is complete. It is to my understanding; that if you figure out the riddle in the poem , one can then identify the subtle hints in the book(s). There’s a lot of excerpts and relative text of the books that are posted online. From that available information , I believe I have identified and deciphered the riddle and therefore , the subtle hints not purposefully placed in the book(s).

            Here’s a thought to ponder: What if reading all the stories in the books is a causal to a hobble to the imagination ,for the realization and deciphering of the riddle in the poem? Sometimes information can add fog ,to as , a green screen of the imagination. It becomes difficult ,If not impossible,to unknown what has been learned . What we learn forever influences our thought patterns and views of reality through our lensed perceptions; gathered from learnings that become our knowledge base.

            Confirmation bias becomes the symptom of conditioned thinking via programming.

            IMO .

          • Perhaps confirmation bias has set in already. When you read the TOTC it gives you the location to start, without that you have nowhere to begin unless you take someone else’s word. Merry Christmas to you, thanks for all your imput.

          • BEC…you said, “Perhaps confirmation bias has set in already. When you read the TOTC ….” .


            IMO .

          • Auhunter,
            In the media section of this site is a radio show from; Columbus, OH radio Station aired this interview with Forrest on December 3rd, 2015. Unfortunately the link now says *permission denied.*
            However, in part, fenn said; When asked about the book{s}… A ~ “They don’t need to read my book but they need to read my poem. The book will help them, but they can find the treasure if they can decipher the clues that are in the poem.”

            Why can’t we solve this without the book?

          • No reply button for seek.
            I have to agree with Mr. Fenns statement. You need to read the poem. Point blank without the poem you have nothing to solve. That statement is a no brainer. They don’t need to read my book. Correct in 2015 when the statement was made it had been about 5 years of interviews , stories and statements made by him. Those alone were enough to help you with the poem.
            It’s all relative.
            Just my opinion. Just because we interpret The words the way we want to hear them doesn’t mean it’s true or that is what is being told. That’s been a given since the beginning. So why do searchers keep reading or listening to what he says as it’s said. I am just as guilty as all and still have not broken that barrier all the way.
            His last statement the book will help you.
            Then they can find the (treasure) if they can decipher the clues in the poem.
            As I said without the poem there is nothing to decipher.
            So what’s there to debate or figure out about this.
            But we will each seek in our own way and Mr Fenn. Will keep throwing out information until one day someone gets it.
            Just my opinion.

      • Hi Zap, Possibly several hundred thousand searchers have read the book and gone BOTG, without finding the chest. The math suggests that this will continue to be the trend.

        • Hi James: your estimate is high considering that just under 53,000 copies had been sold as of September of this year. But I gather your point is that there is as yet no discernible difference in clue-solving progress between those who have the book and those who don’t. That will continue to be the case — quite possibly even after the treasure is found.

  3. Edit… I meant SB quote of from as said above SB 243 not SB 237….my first cup of Peruvian coffee this morning , is only a 1/4 drank. Lol

    • Alsetenash – Also drinking Peruvian Medium Roast coffee every early morning this month, while thinking about The Chase. Read first, then post after the coffee kicks in. The Peruvian owner of my shop loves llama decorations for the holidays. I hope to get to Cuzco and Machu Picchu someday. Talk about solving a mystery, right?

      • Lisa. Gotta love the romance of mysteries. Such as the Bip SB. In a boat on the Amazon river, radios a plane to land at his boat there and flys him to an airport to fly home from Brazil? That’s a bit of a mystery in of itself. A head scratcher.

        IMO .

        • Alsetenash – Yes, but the wild ride was probably balanced with an incredible view:


          The Amazon has more than 1,100 tributaries. Glad we are not looking for the bronze chest, nor pre-Columbian artifacts, in that search area!

          Did I mention my blaze is an S-Curve in the Madison River?

          In a word: yeS!


          • Alsetenash – There’s that ‘Z’ interchanged with ‘S’ that matches my backwardS bike ‘S’ blaZe/blaSe at Baker’S Hole, also:

            It is likely that the word “Brazil” comes from the Portuguese word for brazilwood, a tree that once grew plentifully along the Brazilian coast. In Portuguese, brazilwood is called pau-brasil, with the word brasil commonly given the etymology “red like an ember”, formed from brasa (“ember”) and the suffix -il (from -iculum or -ilium). As brazilwood produces a deep red dye, it was highly valued by the European textile industry and was the earliest commercially exploited product from Brazil.

            Now they are mining for Gold in the Brazilian forests along the Amazon River. Very dangerous work for a multitude of bush pilots.

  4. OK, I tried again to post what wasn’t accepted 5 times on the keyword thread. These comments are posted, but not the one about 2 keywords and the last stanza that I wanted to post, so I am not in lock-down. What is going on?

    • OK… it looks like the main body was finally posted on the Keyword thread….They trimmed it a bit. hope they dont post it 5 times!

  5. Everyone is wondering about keywords and blazers, I keep thinking about chaps. Snake chaps to be specific, last summer I went botg and remembered my waders and forgot the chaps, I ended up one day dealing with more rattlesnakes than my nerves can handle. They were everywhere and ended up ruining two days time, next year I’m taking everything but the kitchen sink, might take that too tho, since I ain’t leaving without that treasure box if I gotta go back.

    • I’m sorry to hear about your bad experience with the rattlesnakes. I’ve heard you don’t find as many rattlesnakes above about 8,000 ft.

      Remember what Forrest said about the treasure not being at the top of a mountain. His exact words were, “My treasure is not on top of a mountain, remember, it can’t be hidden anywhere a 79 or 80 year old can’t hide it.” (SB 48, 2013) https://dalneitzel.com/2013/10/23/scrapbook-forty-eight/).

      Then he amended that statement 5 years later in 2018 in an article for Amtrak Magazine when he said, “and it’s not “on top of any mountain [though] it may be close to the top.” (http://www.amtrakthenational.com/inside-the-epic-search-for-forrest-fenns-gold).

      Dude, maybe you want to start searching at a little bit higher elevation!

    • Jasonhall – if it was late summer / early autumn, depending on elevation and geography, the rattlesnakes may have been migrating back to their wintering den. That is indeed a miserable time to be out and about searching for treasure. It’s also a pretty fascinating event to witness. Be careful out there, practice your snake jumping skills, and carry a hiking stick. It comes in handy.

      • It might very well have been, I wondered that I. Hindsight. Hope to capture in on film someday as I never seen anything like it. Scary yet excitement. Definitely made a botg treasure hunt memory for me.

  6. Is it just me, or does anyone else get tense, jittery and feel like something in life is missing when you don’t hear from Forrest (in his scrapbooks) for a few days or more?

    Has anyone found any good ways to deal with this Scrapbook Withdrawal Syndrome SWS?

    One way I deal with it, is to go over old scrapbooks. I’m now organizing copies of them in a 3-ringer binder for quick reference. I also practice Zen meditation. Still days without scrapbooks are just not the same.

    • Yep blue fox, me too.
      My remedies:
      – listen to ff being interviewed
      -better yet…dive into the poem. I find his voice and hints in his poem.

      • Yes, I had tried to prepare myself, thinking Forrest would take some time off at the holidays. He deserves a break! And we can have some time to put all the pieces together. Last time I worried when was he got those court papers. Hopefully, all is well, and he is just busy.

  7. Could it be possible that forrest has bouts of writer’s block?
    It has been postulated that a variety of events can trigger the flipside known as inspiration, ephiffany.
    External forces and the law of Cause and Effect comes into play. The weather , the seasonal ebb and flow, the Holidays , the National state of mind, or any number of things can cause Mesmorization Eclipses lead to writer”s block.

    I propose something that we can do to entertain ourselves while forrest is out to lunch and we are pacing to and fro for him to drop some crumbs.

    Let’s sign off on each of our comments with a line from a Christmas Carol. Yes….I know there will be a few detractors…there always are.

    signing off

    “Oh Holy Night….The Stars Are Shining Brightly”

    • I think that is an excellent suggestion, Guy. At this time, the song which is playing in my mind is, “Silent night, holy night, All is calm, all is bright.” As Indulgence rests in her woodsy manger.

      Merry Christmas, and best wishes for the New Year!

      Let our rallying call for the new year be, This is the year Indulgence will be found!

      • As far as Forrest having writer’s block, that could be a possibility, but there are so many things he could write about that would satisfy us, which are very simple things. For instance, he could tell us what he had for dinner last night, and that would keep us busy looking for hints for days! Maybe he is just busy wrapping presents.

        I dedicate this Christmas tune to Forrest, because I know it is his wish that war will end. “Let there be peace on earth
        And let it begin with me.” Vince Gill

    • Hi Spallies — yes, that’s Eric’s mural at the Smithsonian Air & Space Museum (currently obscured by temporary walls installed during renovation). I remember watching this video when it came out — looks like now 6 years ago? Time flies! Thanks for sharing the link!

  8. Dal or anyone, Douglas Preston on a couple of occasions that I know of has “implied” that ff gave a clue/hint during interviews. And the way he says it, it “implies” he knows for sure what the clue is and also his mannerisms imply he knows also what the answer to the clue is… on both occasions that I know of, he was standing or sitting right next to ff. since ff is right next to him, it sort of shows DP is confident in his statement, also makes it look like ff knows that DP knows the answer(s)/clue(s)

    How would a person know something was a clue/hint without knowing the solution to that clue in other words.

    I know… I know, ff has said no one else knows… if you watch those situations carefully, both times ff gives a look of what I can only describe as “astonishment”… but I am not quite using that word correctly… it looks more like he knows DP knows the answer/clue….

    what is up with that? (if so and he lets it slip, it will be all over just like that… worse, the consequences of what that would lead to in the aftermath ..)

    • Hi Writis — I know a couple of the occasions you’re referring to — most recently at his house this year when KPro (Kris), Cynthia and Mike (Cowlazars) were there interviewing Forrest and Doug. I’m not sure I read “astonishment” on Forrest’s face. More like “bemusement” — I think Forrest is too good a poker player to have any sort of “tell” in such a situation. Perhaps Forrest enjoys letting Doug ~think~ he knows something.

      • Doug’s role in the interviews I’ve seen-and/or-heard is that of the guy who gets the audience all pumped up for the main act.

        And I think he genuinely has a lot of fun doing that.

  9. Scrapbook 1,I have never heard anyone talk about the photo of Fenns granddaughter with the extra finger or the extra finger on the bronze he did of himself as a pilot

  10. Two mentions of Bugle in the latest posts. Is it ironic that these posts almost coincided with the anniversary of the “Battle Of The Bulge?” Which, I’ve read a couple of times in yahoo post comments is now sometimes referred to as “Bugle.”

  11. Ok, besides the prob n stats of the complexity of it all, HOW on earth can you create a lifelike, WRINKLED pant leg(a bent leg at that), out of a rock? How bazaar.

  12. HighDesertDrifter’s comment in keyword thread: “Forrest’s home was in Montana up until he joined the air force.”

    (since comment is not of that subject, I am posting this reply here instead)

    I don’t know if you mean this figuratively, but I would say it would be wrong to a point in both real world, and wrong figuratively… as it was a “vacation spot” real world, and figuratively, Yellowstone really would be Forrest’s “home”.. rather than “montana”..

    West yellowstone (montana) and associated places along the madison being only a place to “live/shackup” as one could not “shack up” in yellowstone.

    as for Buffalo Jumps, there as many Buffalo Jumps in the foothills and plains and mountains of the four states, as there were buffalo… almost. as this is how the ancients favored to hunt. and the reason for the name given to several of the places, not just two. many are simply not named at all… also.

  13. Writis, by all means, enlighten us.

    I would love to see examples of your train of thought. As I recall Forrest and brother Skippy grew up in Montana. Please keep in mind that my memory does not always serve me well these days. Yes, Yellowstone plays a role in the chase, however, I am of the belief that it is the Yellowstone river and not so much as the park. I would strongly suggest that you take some time to research things in depth before you shoot holes in someone’s theories.

    Over the years many have chased bodies of water in various forms, myself included.
    Although searchers have found many natural treasures, no chest has been presented.
    Nor has there been any announcement by Forrest that the chest has been found.
    Does this mean that looking at water sources is fruitless or futile? That will remain to be seen.

    This blog has always been a place to express one’s thoughts, theories, hope, and Adventures. Personally I will always keep an open mind as I read other’s postings.
    Really looking forward to reading your thoughts, theories, and adventures.
    So, by all means, please share with us your thoughts regarding WWWH, Hob etc.


    • HDD: Writis is correct. When Forrest, Skippy and June were kids, they lived in Temple, Texas. They spent only their summers (June, July and August) living in a small cabin in West Yellowstone, MT, just west of the YNP West Entrance.

      • also, early on for a time, Yellowstone let people ‘shack-up’ at the fishing bridge, and this is where the family spent their summers for a few of the years. (Yellowstone deciding it was probably not a good idea to have that tent city at the fishing bridge eventually)

    • Where did Forrest have a home? Where did Forrest go to church? Where did Forrest go to school? Answer both. g

  14. Recently on the Kpro cow pow wow show,
    they interviewed Mr Forrest Fenn and asked him several questions about the Treasure. It was fascinating!
    But I have several thoughts and questions about all of it and I was wondering if anyone else feels the same.

    Firstly, I gotta talk about Douglas Preston’s comment he made about believing Forrest gave some new clue that no one else has gotten and Forrest thanked Douglas for not mentioning what it was.

    It seems to me that Douglas Preston must know something significant regarding the Treasures location. Why else would that verbal exchange between Forrest and Douglas have taken place.

    So, it does seem (I believe) that 2 people can keep a secret. 🙂

    Secondly, kpro told Forrest that the search community dubbed a lead searcher and asked Forrest if he believes there’s a lead searcher.
    Forrest’s response to this was totally Forrest Fenn!
    Forrest asked kpro to DEFINE THAT TERM, and asked what is a lead searcher. Kpro said a searcher closest to the treasure chest.
    Forrest then responded in a way that seemed an answer was waiting to be exalted and then explained there is no lead searcher and down played it.

    My question is this, what if instead Kpro asked the question this way,
    “Has a searcher advanced in solving more clues in this Treasure Hunt any further than you (Forrest) have previously mentioned and/or has anyone given you (Forrest) the answer to the tenth and final clue?”

    I bet THAT woulda got things rollin!!! 🙂

    Peace to all throughout this Holiday Season.
    Pauley T

    • Hi Pauley T: going to bypass your Douglas Preston question because I feel this is in an area that we have no hope of drawing any solid conclusions. I stand fast to the idea that Forrest is the only one who knows the solutions to the clues, and Doug Preston is no better off than the rest of us — in fact, probably worse off because he can’t devote the research time that hard-core searchers can and have.

      On the “lead searcher” tiresome question, Forrest was absolutely correct to slam the question because it’s crap. “Lead” by what definition? Physically closest (worthless)? Most clues solved (better)? “Closest” is not a good word in this context.

      “… what if instead Kpro asked the question this way, “Has a searcher advanced in solving more clues in this Treasure Hunt any further than you (Forrest) have previously mentioned and/or has anyone given you (Forrest) the answer to the tenth and final clue?”

      Your question started off good, and then went south. “Tenth and final clue”?! That’s complete fantasy, and unsupported by anything Forrest has ever written or uttered. Better to have asked: “Has anyone unambiguously solved the third clue to your satisfaction?”

      • I did not know there was a tenth clue! If there is ! I’d be the first to say I’M CLUELESS. A person only needs a high percentage of clues because no one can agree on what in reality are the clues in the first place!

        • I read recently someone saying the 10th clue but I don’t if that’s anything or not.
          But I will say even though Mr. Fenn. And the sentence above the poem says there are 9 clues in the poem that if followed precisely Will lead you to the (treasure) that does not exclude any additional clues that may also help. If so that would make it difficult to know what 9 clues were being referred to or that there are not 9 exact clues that have to be used to find the TC. Given the wordage used and thinking a little like Mr. Fenn. I believe I may be correct. And counting clues has not been stated to be a must in order to find its location.
          You decide.
          IMO. My observation

          • Forrest’s friend, Doug Preston (the famous author) mentioned in the forward to Once Upon a While that The final clue, he said, would be where they found his car: in the parking lot of the Denver Museum of Nature and Science (https://mysteriouswritings.com/douglas-prestons-foreword-to-forrest-fenns-new-book-once-upon-a-while/). Previously, Doug had said the final clue would be where they found his car in the University of Arizona Parking lot.

            So this final clue remains a mystery. Many have dubbed it the 10th clue, and I had sent some info to Cowlazars and Kpro to share on their show, because both museum parking lots have bronze statues in their parking lots. The museum at denver has the Grizzlies that Forrest shared in a scrapbook, and the NAU parking lot has a lumberjack. Both statues have a striking blue-green patina, which I argued could be important to the searcher who is BOTG near the chest. Many dismissed this as nonsense, but I think it makes a lot of sense, since Forrest had previously said you could find the chest with only the poem. So now he has just added a clue to help someone already in the area. What do you think?

          • Blue Fox,
            We have many comments, such as listed on the cheat sheet on this site, some being; The chest is not associated with a structure, The chest is not under anything man made, and other seemingly related comments about fenn thinking down the road 100, 1000 plus years when he wrote the poem.. etc.

            My point is; the clues that fenn ‘created’ are associated with the treasure chest. He created them for just that purpose [the challenge to find a treasure trove]. So my question be; why utilize an object that could easily be removed, especially if made by man, as a clue that would kill a correct solve?
            Another example is; a Dam is not associated with WWsH.. to add to that.. a beaver dam is also considered, a dam. There is [imo, reliable] second hand information that kinda related to hoB not being associated with a structure.
            Do you see a pattern forming?

            The one thing I keep in mind is; The Rocky mountains are still moving and associated physical changes will surely have an impact. If you are in the year 3,009 it will be more difficult for you to find the treasure.

            Those changes apparently are normal movements of the land and natural affects, as well as, it may take many decades to disturb something related to the challenge making it more “difficult”, but still possible?.
            Why use something that could be removed on any given day of the year as a clue reference-?-even something that could have already been removed since 2010?

            It’s apparent fenn put a lot of thought into his created clue’s references, and I find it difficult to think anything man made would be involved that would leave the poem unsolvable in such a short time period.

            End of commentary….

        • Good day to all,
          I stand with you WoodyBogg,
          Thinking back through things the only possible tenth clue was the omission of Canada in the map that Forrest had published.
          I leave the question open to more astute searchers. I am sure someone out there has the information regarding the number of clues in the poem. Which the back of my mind is saying there was 8 clues in the poem and the lack of Canada was a untended 9th clue.


          • The lack of Canada on the map in TFTW was not a surprise to Forrest, even though he did claim it was. He knew about it well before it was published. We can thank Dal for that tidbit:

            Under “A New Book …” (referring to TFTW) on 11/4/2013 @ 1:26 pm djjmciv wrote, quoting Forrest: “‘But the map stops at Canada. The Rockies keep going up there. But I said that it’s in the Rocky Mountains, which would include Canada. When this book was printed I didn’t realize that Benchmark Maps made this map stopped at the Canadian border so that’s a clue, but I don’t think… it’s not gonna help you much.’ So I guess that’s it then, the unintentional clue was that the treasure is not in Canada. :-/”

            25 minutes later, Dal replied: “djjm- I don’t think so. The map was in Forrest’s hands long before it was a part of the book. He is the person that told Benchmark what to include and what to leave out. There were a couple of iterations of the map prior to the one in the book. None included Canada, Utah, Idaho or Ohio. I know this because Benchmark created a couple of versions and Forrest asked my opinion about map versions weeks before he choose the final version. We even had a short email exchange about Canada when I saw it was eliminated. In my mind ‘Not in Canada’ is clearly not the clue he did not know about.”

            Link to Dal’s reply: https://dalneitzel.com/2013/08/31/new-book-review/#comment-26896

      • The reference to the lead searcher all the time on these shows is a dead horse. It ran over and over as if Forrest himself made it up. Which I keep telling everyone he did not but they wanted and believed or wanted others to believe it was them. I’m talking about some of the ” lead” youtubers! Lol.
        I liked the look on forrests face….I hope Forrest set them straight and now it can be done with.

        • That depends how you define lead searcher. Forrest seems to associate it with people who lie about having found the chest. It is true that no one can have bragging rights until they find the chest, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t some people who are closer than others. What would you call the person, for instance, that may have solved 8 clues and is actively searching the area where Indulgence rests (say within 1/4 mile) versus someone who is in the wrong state? In any race (Chase) some participants will obviously be closer than others. Why is this such a hard concept for people to grasp? But until the chest is found, again, no bragging rights.

          • Hi Blue Fox: it’s not that the ~notion~ of a searcher being further along solving the clues than anyone else is hard to grasp. It’s the absurdity of individuals claiming that they *are* that person. They don’t know, and can’t possibly know. Even Forrest doesn’t know because: “Very few tell me exactly where they are looking so I don’t know how close they are to the treasure.”

      • Doug Preston was the one who talked about the final clue in the parkings lots of Denver and NAU. I pointed out that both parking lots are significant for having bronze statues in the parking lot with both having a striking blue-green patina. (see post above). I believe Forrest is pointing out that once you are boots on the ground, the brown chest you think you are looking for may not be so brown. Forrest has already given us the 9 clues to the treasure location in the poem, so this makes sense to me. This is a clue to help you if you are BOTG near the chest. Forrest also included the Grizzly statue in a SB so all could see its rich blue-green patina. But, as usual, many can not see what is right before their face, let alone what is hidden so well.

        As to the ‘lead searcher,” I think Forrest is pointing out that no one can have bragging rights until the chest is produced. That doesn’t mean that someone(s) aren’t getting close. As you pointed out, a specific number of clues solved would be a very useful piece of information for Forrest to give out. He used to give public updates, but now I think our only updates are hidden in the scrapbooks. I would say someone is on clue 8 and has not yet quite made it to 9 or they would have the chest. That person, you can be assured, knows the word that is key, and it is in the poem IMO, standing out like a sore thumb. But again, people cannot see what is right before their face and instead continue to seek the obscure.

    • Pauly,

      I think it is clear from ff answer that there is no lead searcher and he even questions where did it originate from. I find it interesting that the youtubbers who asked the question are the same ones who have been pushing that ‘lead searcher’ narrative for a long time and didn’t even mention it. Now some say ff was not being truthful, and that there must be a lead searcher because of the many scrapbooks of late, or any other illogical reason.

      Just like the word that is key which in the same interview he was pushed to admit that there is a word ‘IN THE POEM’ more important than the others. His answer was straight up and simple, but that’s no good enough for many. Nope, he answered two different things. So now we have one word more important than the others in the poem, but the word that is key still lies outside of it. It just seems like we all made our minds and no matter what Mr. F says at this point will help, it will just add to the confusion.

      • Thanks Oz10. That is a fairly accurate and logical way to put these things into perspective. Unless it is very clearly and specifically stated by Fenn in no uncertain terms… folks will hear/see what they need to.
        A great example is the list of *safety* tips/issues from F. Most don’t debate those too much… however… we have all seen where folks have not heeded them. Thanks again.

        • Hey Ken I agree. We always knew ‘everything you need to find the treasure is in the poem’, but I think the difficulty of the task and the long running years of no solving the clues and finding the chest as of yet has some of us looking way outside the box from time to time.

          The biggest event in 2019 and more than all the new scrapbooks combined was that confirmation regarding the word that is key, at least to me.

          • Oz,
            “All the information”…. just sayin… not so much “everything”

            Ok lets talk. The comment says to *find* the treasure chest, right?
            Are we to presume the information tells us what a clue’s reference is?
            Does the information tell us where the search local is? {an actual place to put boot to dirt}

            The book will help with the clues, right?
            Does that mean each individual clue’s reference, or, help with all the clues-?- such as possibly where to find all the clue’s in the area to search, idea.

            Some where along the line… it seems the book does something to help. The question is; How does it help?
            The answer{s} usually falls to how the reader perceive the poem… how they read it… their method of how the poem should play-out. A precondition notion.

            The next question has to be; Are we reading the poem correctly as fenn intended?
            Which brings me full circle to; All the information to *find* the chest is in the poem. Great… clues are in the poem and they are needed to be followed precisely which will reveal {lead} us to the hidey spot.
            What the heck gets us to the *search area?* Is that responsibility to fall solely on WWsH-?- out of the many?

            OK, If so… then I could possibly agree the poem is all we need…. IF the poem can also tell us where that clue is. Otherwise we’re at that needle in a haystack scenario.
            Does the book narrow down the search area to where the clues are located to be found by using maps of that area?

            Here’s my point… even though many here have been at this a long time and more than likely; til death do us part, can we chance the same old same old method / process, and only the places and names change? I think fenn was counting on just that.
            Nothing there seems very precise to me. I’m trying to understand the concept of “what took me so long?”

          • Seeker, I don’t know but one logical way that this could play out will be like this, just an example:

            Say that the first thing we need to find out is the correct thought for what ‘IT’ is. Maybe the first stanza helps describe ‘something’, a process, an equation, a state of mind… whatever that is. Then we go back and plug that in where the ‘it’ is and see if it makes sense with the whole line. The product of that exercise should be of a place/location that can be found in a map. Keep in mind that there could be another level deeper, like I said just an example. Follow that in consecutive order and every clue reveal should point closer to the hidey spot. How many lines per clue, or how many clues per location? Don’t know and it may be impossible to know until after the whole reveal is done.

            The book should not give us the ‘it’ that we need in the poem, nor any other correct interpretation needed to solve it. But there may be other examples on how to find ‘ITS’ for other stories, unrelated to the poem. The’re like illustrations on how to find known unknowns. That is how a hint in the book can help with the clues in the poem without giving you the answers to the clues.

          • Seeker asked-

            What the heck gets us to the *search area?* Is that responsibility to fall solely on WWsH-?- out of the many?

            This ATF from f indicates that is not possible.

            Dear Forrest,

            You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is:

            a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and

            b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”

            Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail? Steve

            No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence.

          • Hi FD: correct. Forrest is telling us that the 5th line of the poem, in isolation, cannot be solved. The key conditional in the question was “Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem.” Somewhere in the rest of the poem is a missing ingredient. Logic suggests that missing ingredient is likely found in the first stanza.

          • Zap,
            Seems Fenn made it clear the poem is a map, right?
            Tells us a physical presence is needed… So, you might think somewhere in the poem there might be information that may fill in some gaps, but I have to ponder the thought that the need to be on site is not just about retrieving the chest and more about what is explained in the poem that needs to be seen.

            Even with some of the first few clues

          • Hi Seeker: yep, it’s a map. In my opinion, a set of directions (or recipe, if you will) for navigating from one geographic point to the next, culminating at the treasure’s location.

            But since winter officially began Saturday night, Forrest’s words take on some urgency:

            “It seems logical, that if someone solves the clues, they will retrieve the treasure immediately. Until they do, no announcement can have teeth. With snow coming on the situation, this changes of course; in which case, if I were the searcher, I’d stay very quiet until spring. f”

          • Zap,
            And to my point… a map is not directions, but information.
            For example; a map can depict churches, roads, historical sights, forest, mountains, water{s} etc etc. But it alone doesn’t say what to look for.
            The question is; What map are we to bring on a search and why?

            You said; *Somewhere in the rest of the poem is a missing ingredient.*

            I have to wonder if these land features are all present on a given map, or seen correctly from those mapping tools.
            My example could be hoB; Can it truly be recognized from an aerial view, or only known correctly from ground level?
            How would the poem tell us the difference-?- if that is a missing ingredient needing to be discovered?

            The same question can be posed for many of the physical clue’s references. Rocking chair ideas can lead one to the first few clues, but a physical presence is needed to complete the solve. Can we really find what is needed for HLnWH {for example} on a conventional map and know it as such from that birds-eye view?
            Or is that ingredient somewhere in the poem as well?
            Is the blaze reference called out in the poem? or are we only hoping they should be?

            There’s a difference between *Information to find the chest is in the poem* vs. *everything we need is in the poem*

            Just sayin…………

          • Someone may have mentioned having to figure out the clues. Go to the first clue, and then they’re consecutive after that. Sounds like a recipe to go with confidence…yes?

          • Very well written and understood comment Seeker.
            You just set me back a few years but that may be a good thing.

      • OZ10

        I totally agree with you on the “adding to confusion” part, that’s for sure.

        But, I don’t mean to beat a dead horse, although that does seem to be the common denominator surrounding the chase. I believe there are several interpretations regarding what Mr. Forrest Fenn says when he answers a question, that’s what makes it so confusing. I simply just try to look at it in a sensible way.
        If Forrest answers a question like this, “Define That Term”, then I believe that leaves it up to different interpretations. With regards to the so called “lead searcher”, there can be multiple explanations to identify who a “lead searcher” is.
        A “lead searcher” can be the person who was within 200 feet of the treasure.
        A “lead searcher” can be a person who is closest to the treasure chest.
        A “lead searcher” can be a person who is solving more of the nine clues in the poem.
        A “lead searcher” can be a person who solved what the blaze is.
        A “lead searcher” can be a person who solved what Brown is.
        A “lead searcher “ can be a person who (if you believe in a tenth and final clue) solved the entire puzzle.
        And so on and so on.

        Bottom line is this, I believe anyways, there’s gotta be someone who is physically closest to the Treasure Chest and there’s gotta be someone who is mentally closest to the Treasure Chest. Whether there’re one in the same is another story but regardless of what Mr Forrest Fenn says about a “lead searcher” the facts are unexploitable. Physics say a person, who is made of atoms, has carried a Treasure Chest into the wilderness and physics say a person has been physically and mentally close to the location of that Treasure, it’s just that simple.

        Forrest hasn’t said a word about anyone being closer than the 200 foot searcher or someone solving more than the first 2 clues and all those comments were made at least a couple years ago. Forrest hasn’t said anything regarding any advancements whatsoever since the release of “Once Upon A While”, that im aware of anyways.
        Why is that?
        Do we honestly believe NO ONE has advanced in 2 years? That’s why I believe there woulda been a different answer if KPRO asked the question in a different way.

        BUT, what I believe can be moot to some or many.
        I believe Forrest asked KPRO to “Define That Term” because he has knowledge of multiple searchers who have solved certain clues and/or have been communicating their theory’s to him that may have been partially correct or mostly correct or completely correct in solving this Treasure Hunt, but without holding the Treasure Chest in their hands what difference does it simply make when regarding a “lead searcher”?
        That’s why I believe Forrest answered that question like that. But once again, I believe, if KPRO asked the question in a different manner I believe Forrest may have answered it ambiguously or not have answered it at all, or possibly shocked the heck outta us. We’ll never know at this point, unless more questions and answers are coming down the pipeline soon.

        I have a solve just like everyone else, I think it’s good, I think it’s logical, I think it’s interesting and intelligent, I think it’s imaginative and compelling, and I have researched it to death! And with that said, I believe I’m 100% correct and believe I have found confirmation bias, but who knows. I have contacted Forrest Fenn and told him where I believe the Treasure is, unfortunately he didn’t show up at my house with a group of people carrying balloons and a huge 3 foot by 6 foot cardboard check that had my name on it with a couple million dollars. 🙂
        So, that leaves just one thing to do, go to that exact location that I believe the Treasure is secreted and search for it.

        I hope to one day, I hope to.

        Hey, thanks for listening. 🙂
        Pauley T

    • Thanks for that link and what a great video you guys make.

      It got me thinking about what is missing from the story and so I am off looking for more history books about my search area and I found one collection of late 19th c. journals from Montana with this Longfellow poem in its first pages:

      “Old legends of the monkish page,
      Traditions of the saint and sage,
      Tales that have the rime of age
      And chronicals of eld.

      • Muset, that poem, Prelude by Longfellow is about a special place in nature…… how appropriate. Bet that book of journals from Montana. will be very enriching.

  15. ace 340,
    Those are the million-dollar questions.
    In TTOTC I recall Forrest relating a story about following the path of Luis and Clark.
    And something about an airplane that Skippy owned?
    Also a story about having to walk for a distance because Forrest and Skippy had a disagreement.

    More recently I recall a posting with a picture of Forrest standing between to other men and the story was about a family-owned motel and how things had changed. Sadly I am not perfect in my recall. Maybe I need to adjust my meaning of what living someplace is. What amount of time would be appropriate?


    • The place I live now is now my home. My search area now I consider my second. Where the buffalo roamed. g

  16. Just wanted to mention that today is the 51st anniversary of Forrests extended travel/trip to Laos on December 20th 1968. All things being equal, he only lost two important things, his travel photos and his airplane.

    If you’d like to know more about that trip please watch the Air Force Association interview they conducted with Forrest about that event a couple years ago. You can find it in part three of that video, here:

    Then go to the link on that page to part four for the rest of that story…

    • Coincidentally, I was just rereading the chapter “My War for Me” with my coffee this morning. It’s definitely one of those works that causes me to notice new things with each read that I missed previously. I feel like this morning’s read gave me a better understanding about some of the lessons that Forrest wants to pass along.

      I also seemed to focus on the poem by Omar Khayyam about “The Moving Finger” for the first time this morning. I had never heard of Omar Khayyam before, so I just read a little bit about him on the internet. Apparently, he is attributed to being the creator of the use of quatrains in poetry! How’s that for appropriate name for Forrest to drop? There’s also a neat little story about how he had gained a sultan’s favor and was owed some sort of prize that he could name, and Khayyam requested only to be allowed a small corner in the shadow of luxury where he could pursue his intellectual thoughts. He was awarded a place in the Sultan’s court and discovered many breakthroughs in mathematics, astronomy, and poetry. There’s something there in that story that I think ties back to Forrest’s notion of contentment. Interesting stuff!

      • A Book of Verses underneath the Bough,
        A Jug of Wine, a loaf of Bread- and Thou
        Beside me singing in the Wilderness-
        And Wilderness is Paradise enow.

  17. I just saw Santa riding on a train… I wonder if FF has ever seen something like that too.

    I’m watching the Shrek Christmas Special… and looking forward, my christmas wish, for a SB all about F.G.

  18. Mr. A –
    I leave you with this thought …
    You can lead a searcher to WWWH,
    But you cannot make him think.

  19. I want to talk about “the lead searcher” myth, and I will probably piss off some of the most visible searchers in the chase for this, But honestly, sometimes the more visible searchers piss off many of us who mostly (or always) lurk.

    It is my belief the lead searcher myth was created by searchers who are very active online, and who regularly communicate with FF. Here is what I think happened, and lead to the birth of the myth. Searchers sent their solutions to FF. Then, soon after, FF would post a SB, or maybe do an interview. And these searchers who shared their solution would hear FF say something or they would read something in the new SB, and that was confirmation bias for them. And these searchers actually believed that FF had read their solution and was communicating directly with them through this subterfuge and giving them a confirmation that they were correct in their solve, or at least on the right path. I am not making this scenario up – a number of the more visible searchers on youtube and on blogs have stated this exact thing. Most of them could laugh at themselves and recognized it was silly, but they admitted that for a moment or two the idea crossed their mind.

    Now, I found this idea offensive. Because I absolutely trust the integrity of the chase. In order to even participate in the chase you have to believe FF is an honest man who really hid the chest, really put 9 clues in his poem that can be solved, and that FF is not going to undermine his own good character and the integrity of the hunt by playing favorites and giving out secret hints or “wink wink” communications to his pet searchers. And frankly, I think those searchers who have met FF personally should be able to attest that I am right in my assumptions, he is a man of great integrity and will not demean this chase or risk his honor in any way by giving insiders any advantage.

    So, what I think happened next is that those highly visible searchers created the lead searcher myth for themselves. Because if there is a lead searcher, then de facto, it is someone who shared their solution with FF. I don’t do that. Most people don’t do that. But if you are someone who shared your solution with FF, then you could count on the idea that you could be “the lead searcher” because you are convinced that FF has been giving out “wink wink” confirmations in his communications after receiving your solution. It makes you feel good.

    Was someone within 500 feet of the chest? And someone else within 200 feet? Yes, FF said so. He said this years ago. Yet the chest remains hidden. Whoever that person was, they did not find the chest and it is apparent they are not searching for it now. (I am not interested in all the speculation about whether their arrival there random, were they even searching for the chest at the time, etc. I see more bad logic on that topic than I care to think about.) Originally, I think the term “lead searcher” was meant to apply to this unknown individual, but the concept morphed into what I have discussed above.

    Lastly, if you have been in this chase for years, if you have communicated with FF about your solutions, and you do not have that chest, then consider: your relationship with FF, be it friendship, or as your mentor, or perhaps even a substitute grandpa – is a beautiful thing. I think that those of you who have developed a personal relationship with him are blessed. But you do not have the treasure. I think that speaks to FF’s good name. He will not play favorites when it comes to the chase. And I do not think much of anyone who belittles their personal relationship with FF in their search for the treasure. Fortunately, I think FF is a wily old fox who knows how to look after himself and simply will not be taken advantage of. As for those people who try and take advantage of their favored position, I know I am not alone in thinking less of you.

    • Hello Schrodinger’s Treasure:

      You said: “As for those people who try and take advantage of their favored position, I know I am not alone in thinking less of you.”
      Oh I absolutely agree with you. You referred to them as “visible searchers”. In the past I have referred to them as the VIPs of the chase.

      In their minds, because they have either had numerous contacts with FF personally or because they have been in his home, they consider themselves superior to everyone else. Even worse …

      These VIP searchers attract others into their treasure hunt orbit who look upon these VIPs as “special”, whose ideas about the chase must be superior to everyone else’s ideas. It’s downright nauseating.

      I haven’t posted here in months because I have given up on any real discussions about the chase, both on message boards and on YouTube, as a result of stale discussions about the “lead searcher” and other distractions perpetrated by these VIP searchers and their “followers”.

      It’s good of you to bring in some reality topics to a project that got off-tract a long time ago, in my opinion. I think I h ave made significant progress on the poem, but find almost nothing of value in discussions that rehash tiresome old topics that have been debated for years.

      Ken (in Texas) 🙂

    • Pet searchers?………… Ouch.
      I don’t believe Forrest communicates with me through the scrapbooks, I believe he uses the FORCE to do so cause that’s what Jedis do!

      Pauley T

      P.S. I’ve seen The Rise of Skywalker 3 Times already,
      I’m a Star Wars Super Freak! 🙂

    • Schrodinger’s Treasure,
      Good morning from the desert. I could not agree with you more.
      In some cases, I perceive that some searchers were looking for the ole ” hide an go seek style game” Where someone hides something and has others hunt for it giving the hints of you are cold, ur getting warmer, etc.

      I can personally attest to the fact Forrest is an honest man. I recall back in the early days Forrest had made two direct statements to searchers. To level the playing field. The first statement was to the best of my recollection: ” The chest is not near a dam ” [ not exact wording ] and The treasure is not associated with a structure. I leave it up to Forrest if he feels inclined to comment on this post for clarification. Then again he may be getting some good laughs from watching people run down that particular rabbit hole.

      Most of the early searchers will tell you about the maze of rabbit holes they have pursued over the years. Keep this in mind: This chase is Forrest’s game of hide and go seek. He makes the rules. Once he has set a rule he does not violate it. Imho, for one to expect hints of ” you are getting warmer ” is an aberration that will only lead to endless rabbit holes.

      I hope all had the best Christmas ever.


      • The way I see it, I know what’s up, but I gotta stay busy. I have treasure hunting in a few different spots and if I can get work done and check somethin out at the same time it’s all good. This new Mexico business sounds hot and cactus has a bad history with me, but I have to get to this Taos place someday so why not treasure hunting the Fenn magic box. It’s winter and all the good creeks are frozen, the ore is locked up in ice, what’s the harm in uncle Sam’s Sahara. Maybe I’ll find a old bomb shell who knowz.

        • What’s wrong with Schrodinger’s. I like cats and the Jedi mind trick works on half of the humans!! I think in all fairness any advantage is a advantage if it works. I suppose now ouija boards are out for canyon down clues now too. Fancy Fenn searchers just lack the imagination is all.

    • schrodinger- im a lead searcher.
      ahead of everyone else because i can wrap my mind around the possibility that the chest mentioned in the poem may not be the bronze romanesque box. and using my boundless imagination i can find several chests using the poem as a map in several different places, and take them all. and ill talk about it as much as i please. if this offends you, i really dont care as in my travels i have found more treasure than even Forrest Fenn himself intended. he will keep his bracelet and the entire contents of the romanesque box. what i have is much more valuable.
      this i know as fact.

    • LLMMAAOO@Sparrow …

      That is HILARIOUS!!!!

      OMG, I’m gonna laugh for days!!! Sparrow, for such a common name, you sure do come up with sone uncommon hilarity!

      I’m beginning to think you’re a clown in a bird suit.

      Psssst….don’t go nowhere Sparrow! I’ll be right back with another lurker….
      Merry Christmas to all…


  20. Caller: “Hey there Mr Obvious. Long time listener, first time caller. Mr Obvious, I there really a “lead searcher” in the Chase? You seem to know everything anyway. I mean maybe you can finally put this rumor to rest.”

    Mr Obvious: “Well searcher I do believe in a ‘lead searcher’, but then I also believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Rabbit and the Tooth Fairy, so this is just IMO. Not only is there is “lead searcher” I think there is probably a ‘lead lurcher” too. Not to worry caller. At the rate things are going there is plenty of time to catch up. Just keep searching. It’s still out there.”

    Caller: “Huh? (I think I’ll go get another opinion.) Well, er uh, thanks Mr.Obvious, you the best.”

    Caller: “Wait Mr Obvious, do you have any evidence to back your claim?”

    Mr Obviuos: “Oh look, times up. (Uh oh, Evidence?) Sorry I have another call to take. Good luck caller.”

  21. Have been scouring thru ancient comments on here & can feel the pain of some searchers’ roads coming to their ends. Especially those early on that FF said went right on by. They were so close to the finish line, but oh so faraway.

    The search bar up top is the most awesome thing on this site. I love getting just a few results now & again. The problem with rabbit holes is knowing when you’ve reached the actual bottom, and also making sure to explore all passages back. Who knows, you might go straight thru the core?

    New catchphrase, “Pronunciation is more important than spelling.”

  22. In the Movies the lead searcher always get shot first. Good thing this isn’t the movies! I wonder if there’s enough publicity yet. I think I’ll ratchet it up a few notches! What’s that you saw a sleigh and 9 rain deer Flying away with the chest!

    • Forrest said that there is no lead searcher. So instead of a situation where everyone is gunning for that lead person, maybe it will be a free for all like in The Good, the Bad and the Ugly. Forrest did say it’s not in a cemetery so it couldn’t be exactly like the scene in that movie.

      And if you’re suggesting that Santa is the lead searcher I’d hope I was in the Harold and Kumar movie where Santa’s sleigh gets shot down (FYI, no reindeer were injured in the filming of this movie though the same cannot be said of Neil Patrick Harris’ liver)

      Have a Christmas, whether it’s Merry, Peaceful or Bizarre is your choice.

  23. The 12 days of TTOTC Christmas
    By 42

    And A treasure waiting just for me
    1 rich ol’man
    2 bear cubs
    3 pick up trucks
    4 mountain states
    5 golden nuggets
    6 websites blogging
    7 Gypsies dancing
    8 searchers hiking
    9 clues a hiding
    10 years of searching
    11 F.F. stories
    12 pots of chili

    Merry Christmas!
    Enjoy your family & friends y’all

    • Fun! And a Merry Christmas to you 42 and to this crazy bunch of dedicated searchers! Time to put the Chase up for a bit, rest the mind and soul, and spend time with those we love…..at least for a day or two. LOL!

      • Merry Christmas all, Dal, Forrest, and all searcher
        Friends and community!
        Remember; it’s not if you win or lose…..its how you play the game!

  24. Fifty-one years ago tonight Forrest walks into his family home to be greeted by his wife and daughters after a close call in the jungle a million miles away. Thank you Forrest and I hope you are together again tonight with your 3 special ladies on this night! We are all glad you survived and lived such a remarkable life which you are so generous to share with us all!

  25. Seeker, I like your assessment of the poem.

    In an effort to look at the poem from a child’s point of view. I am trying to get in touch with my inner child, the results are somewhat a puzzle in themselves.

    Adult mind: How do you see the poem?
    Child’s mind: Arrr I spy a pirate’s treasure map.
    Adult mind: What do you mean?
    Child’s mind: If you look at the poem it is a map that uses objects as pirates did.
    ” Go to this lake and walk this many paces to this rock. ”
    Adult mind: Ohhh I see.

    And so the conversation in my head goes on and on. Sometimes I get mental pictures from my child’s mind of roads and rocks and weirdly enough glasses of ice.
    What my inner child is trying to tell me still eludes me.

    Merry Christmas to all and a blessed new year

  26. Treasure your memories and let’s All go make some memories to treasure. Merry Christmas and a wonderful New Year.

      YES, YES
      TREASURE your memories
      tell loved ones you love
      love them before you
      Deep within your heart are
      memories of places long ago.

      • Batty You sure have a way of making a person feel old -places long ago? Like The gerber Alexander building in Santa-Fe or St.Michaels clock tower ? or many of the other places I helped build . Yes when i lived there . There are many people I Ioved from that time and place in my life. I hope I made a good impression on someone along the way that still remembers I was there.

  27. Merry Christmas to Forrest and everybody.
    Just finished the book. The “ttoc”. Broke my brain reverse. Might be a good thing. Thank you b.

    • Nice Jasonhall, are you newish to the chase? If so, man, buckle your seatbelt. Try to block out the noise, It sounds like your off to a good start. Forrest recommends, “Here is what I would do. Read my book in a normal manner. Then read the poem over and over and over, slowly – thinking. Then read my book again, this time looking for subtle hints that will help solve the clues.” f.

  28. lol I figured out the India girl hint…. and also what makes this place special.
    I’m going to go crazy waiting for the thaw.

    It amazes me everyday the masterpiece FF created for all of us to enjoy & share, a special account of when he was shot down & rescued, to be able to go with him to a place we can all visit. What an awesome gift!

    Merry Christmas!!!!

    PS – Also thanks to Dal for this awesome site, tyvm

  29. IMO…..

    FORREST! I’m trying to send you a Very Important E-mail Wabbit(VIEW)and it keeps coming back as being blocked! After only 2,913 emails, I thought one mire couldn’t hurt?

    Man, Forrest, nobody else will listen to me anymore. They roll their eyes and threaten me with a white TRUCE jacket!!

    Don’t get me wrong, I’d look cute running around in there in my matching tighty-whities, bouncing off of those padded Butterfly walls…BUT NOW WHAT DO I DO DO?

    Could you please call me ASAP? My number is 1 800 AYE-EYES.

    Thanks in advance….Skipper.


    • My backup number is
      1 800 ALL-EYES

      My wife’s number is
      1 800 ALL-EARS

      that woman can hear a gnat fart in the shower! And who’da thought gnats showered? I know my wife don’t….

      Sparrow, is Billy Barty available? And how much does he charge an hour? She may need some help …

      IMO ONLY!

      See how ya do that lurkers… IMO is needed cuz she hasn’t been officially helped! (Wink, Wink)

      • Wait… Are you sure the wabbit is white?

        What happened to the blue wabbits? Or was it just the wabbit holes that were blue?

        That wasciwy rabbit, his holes get deeper all the time!

      • Oh, I see… the color “RED” is left out.

        Those colors would make up the US Flag – Red, White, and Blue.


        But I thought Forrest used the riddle, “What’s black and white and red all over?”

  30. Class, class, settle down, stop throwing those paper airplanes.
    Stop chewing that gum and listen up.

    I just watched a recent interview with ff and Doug Preston titled “HINT 9F RICHES”.

    In this youtube video Forrest is sitting in a highback chair wearing purple sweater. He is asked some questions which he answers. He then is shown sitting next to Preston. Preston then states that Forrest just gave out a clue he had not heard before while Forrest was sitting in the chair.

    My take away…..New Mexico has been overlooked.
    Now that being said it could be a matter of interpretation.

    RING…..RING…..RING…Class dismissed.

    • It’s a big sandbox tho. There’s gold but you have to pan it. Why does everyone run when someone says hint. Boy I wonder in this.

      • New Mexico does have lost Alamos tho. In it’s defense, and I’ve never been there since I would melt.

    • NM overlooked?!? For the initial years of the search, it was considered the ONLY state. Multitudes of New Mexicans with easy access to ALL parts of the Rockies north of Santa Fe searched and searched. But to no avail.

      The wondrous Tooby the ‘Intelligence Analyst Who Lacks Intelligence’ declared it could ONLY be in NM, then declared that it was south of Lander, then effectively declared he didn’t know kumquats from rutabagas, then decided he’d rather profit from u-toob puke than actually find the treasure.

      After looking all over NM for years, including parts not part of the Rocky Mntns, Cynthia decided to pick up stakes and head to Yellowstone environs.

      Let’s let everyone search and destroy all around Yellowstone. Let’s not disrupt that. Let’s leave NM wilderness wild and safe from their destruction.

      • If someone chooses to search IN Yellowstone, I hope they don’t disrupt
        it. In fact, I hope searchers don’t disrupt any wilderness area.

        By the way, I’m not absolutely convinced that the treasure is not in
        “colorful Colorado”. Remember FF’s comment about his rainbow?

        • It might be. I’m done searching on the ground less I have too. Im going to Yellowstone for fishing this year tho. Maybe watch Fenn searchers and laugh.

          • Nice, I’m fishing too. Searching also. Taking a month off of work. Should be enough time for searchin, fishin, prospectin, and historian. g

      • If you haven’t seen the interview you may wish enlighten yourself prior to crawling out across others patches.
        Cynthia was one of the interviewers.

        May need to back your truck up Chuck.

        The interview was posted just recently.

    • Fenn didn’t seem to like the “Lead searcher” question.
      “How in the world would you know that you were the closest? If you know you’re the closest, why don’t you get the treasure chest and go home? As far as I’m concerned there’s no such thing as a lead searcher.”
      Of course there’s a Lead searcher. There has to be. Whether Mr Fenn has any idea of who it is or not (And whether he cares or not) Someone has to have been closer than anyone else. I think what Fenn was alluding to in this most recent interview is that the Lead searcher don’t (and won’t) know he was close or not until the treasure is found.

      • randawg. im a lead searcher and the reason i dont “get the treasure chest and go home” is because thats not what the poem says to do. the poem clearly states…”take the chest and go in peace.”
        taking the chest means to take a photo and in addition the chest of the poem may not be the bronze box or “treasure chest” as you mistakenly wrote.

        randawg i got one question for you and anyone else who doesnt believe in a lead searcher…..whats on your wall?

  31. Good thing there’s – Winter A good time for the Mountains to rest and re- coup Forever changing Runoff , Windstorms, Rainstorms, Drought, and changing temp are prob. more devastating than some hikers bootprint. Good thing though, it’l move some of those gold nuggets around where we can find them.

  32. Book’s spose to have hints;) found two and I’m opinion about it. There’s a jar up in Montana in my opinion. And maybe a box.

  33. Loved the “Late Summer 2019 Interviews” clips, Dal. The video in regards to instrumental flying, and the other about the Malibu engine had me on the edge of my seat. The other where he used his comb to turn the plane was funny.

    • Thanks pdenver for the heads up on the interviews. They were awesome, especially the ones you noted! 🙂

    • Glad you enjoyed them PD…
      The new videos are called “Late Summer 2019 Interviews” and can be found on the right hand side near the top of the page under “Forrest Speaks”…

      • Yes, thank you Dal. The first interview says volumes. Eric’s bell. I always wondered about that bell in f’s study. There is also a painting from Eric, with clouds, a plane, signed by Eric and underlined, that would go with the bell story.
        I’m curious, while at f’s, did you see the bells? I wonder, does he still have the bell that’s on page 137 of TToTC? I’m guessing he doesn’t.

        • Yes, Ive seen the bells. He’s presented those before and wanted to show the jars this time. I don’t have the book in front of me but if it is the one with “Knowlege”…that was still at his place in June.

          • Thanks Dal. It’s the, ring the bell so I will know bell. I’m just being curious. The videos are awesome, good job and thanks again.

          • Dal,
            Do You think Forrest has hinted to the locations of the bells in his books or other by other means?

          • Lou-
            Not at all. He hid the bells and jars so it would be hundreds of years before they are found and they will all be found by accident. There are no maps or poems of clues or hints to their where-abouts. They are buried far enough down to be undetectable with current metal detector technology.

            I know someone who helped Forrest hide a couple of them and he told me they were randomly placed and even though this fellow dug the holes he felt he would not be able to find the exact locations again.

          • Thanks Dal
            For the reply! I kinda knew the answer, but I thought I would ask for everyone.
            I’m not sure why…. but I still wonder if he did but says no…..with that twinkle in his eye, that I have witnessed.
            Forrest is a hoot!
            Happy New Year Dal!
            Thanks for what You do!

          • I wouldn’t be so sure about that Dal. I don’t have the link, but the Lorene Mills interview dated April, 27 2013, start at the 10 minute mark. The bell I was referring to is at the 12:49 mark.
            I think that “IT” is in reference to a bell, that bell. I also think that the poem is written to find that bell. It’s the “secret”.
            I believe he buried that bell at the 8th clue. Then only needing one clue to solve for the chest, the last clue. All clues would be followed to find the chest like he says, but actually only needing to solve one clue to find the chest. This way he isn’t going against any of his ATF’s. If you are solving clues to find the chest, why would he say you only need one clue, the last?
            And, in solving a clue, then wouldn’t you need to solve 2,3,4,5,etc… clues. That goes against the ATF. If you need a prior clue to solve for a clue, to find the chest, then that also goes against the ATF.
            Plus, thinking that the chase may last 100, 1000 years, wouldn’t f want to know when a bell was found, and possibly the chest? Listen to his answer in the video.
            IMO, the “x” that we put on a map, the one you get from the poem, will take you to the spot where this bell is. All you have left is to solve the last clue, to take you from there to the chest.
            And, your little interview there about the bell Eric gave him, whether you want to believe or not, basically confirms that.
            Eric gave X, (this info is from a painting that Eric gave to Fenn), Eric gave him a bell. (From your interview), A bell is at “X”. (this is the secret from the poem, this is “it”, and secret plan page 137 of TToTC).The bell on page 137 of TToTC.
            All IMO, but believe this is how the poem is set up. Maybe it’s the answer to your final riddle…?
            Poem, clues, secret, It, rainbow, “X”, bell, key, chest. (lol, not necessarily in that order).

  34. Hello all. I have been several years in the search but have never participated on this primordial site. In the future I hope to give as much as I receive. Until then, Happy New Year.

    • Happy New Year and welcome SBH!

      You’ll find that most searchers here have some wonderful creative thoughts, and other then a direct solve (for obvious reasons!), are pretty willing to share. I always wish I had more to contribute, but like you, I am relatively new and trying to learn from the veterans on this site. Have fun and happy and safe hunting always. 🙂

  35. Just wondering… does a riddle always end in a question mark?

    And, ‘Marry the clues to a place on a map’…. but……
    should they also be married to a place in time?


    • OS2 – I don’t think a riddle has to end with a question mark. I think one of the biggest riddles in the poem is “NFBTFTW”. The reason being is that in order to end up at the correct “PIBTHOB”, I think you have to have a definite distance to travel in the canyon down. Just MO anyway. I mean if the poem is a map of sorts, what do we need to get from A to B? We need Direction, Distance, and some Description. At least that is the basis of how I’m looking at the clues in the poem.

      In terms of a place in time, not sure I follow you there. Can you elaborate a bit more?

      • Geysergirl….. I think NFBTFTW is an ‘unknown’ but not a riddle.

        As for TIME … An intellectual or emotional growth event … First Grade might be where Warm Waters Halt, or maybe recognizing many years later what a maligned enemy means by waving an olive jar at you. Maybe its a “threshold moment” that inspires adding a rule to the list, or, when an idea blooms while laying in bed at 3 am pondering a bad medical diagnosis. Does one cross a final bridge to contentment?

        • Got ya. For me, the TIME factor comes in play in the first stanza. That is what helps with the first clue to marry to a place. IMO

          Also, I believe that in addition to his chapter in TTOTC, My War For Me, the chapter Flywater is also very important. The second para on page. 121. He talks about leaving Yellowstone as a kid after the summers, but there is one sentence I find interesting.

          “Over the years so many bits and pieces had to be left behind, and a few mind expanding experiences were to remain unknown.”

          Is he speaking of his ploy to hide the treasure and his bones when he found out he had cancer? I think it could be. It is one of several reasons I believe the Yellowstone area is were indulgence is. But that’s all just my thoughts on the matter.

          • Geysergirl…. are you saying that the first stanza (as I have gone alone) implies that the place is normally entered by people who are not alone? Like a gateway to a popular place that has Open & Closed hours?

          • I think so. If you don’t have hours the kids will show up during happy hour. And if you don’t have doors the cows will run around eating everyone’s salad and then it would just be a barn instead of a restaurant.

          • Lol! No. I guess I was not clear. I think it refers to Fenn and all the wonderful places he explored as a kid in and around Yellowstone on his own. I think the first stanza is literal in reference to the actual hunt, but also is metiforical for his memories (riches new and old) as a kid. I think you need something to set the “big picture” so you can circle into a smaller area.

          • You were clear Geysergirl… but “all the wonderful places” sweeps in too much I think. We are told to “follow precisely” & “it’s risky to discount any of the words.” Sweeping generalizations may be a big discount. Just my thought sas well. Good luck. OS2

          • We’re on the same page OS2 in terms of “follow precisely” etc. All I meant by my previous comments is that we need a way to get from the “Rocky Mountains” to a smaller area to start. And the “hints” that I see in TTOTC point to Yellowstone area. Not in the park per se, but the area itself. And I could be 100% wrong. Lol! Thanks for your input and comments. Always thought provoking.

    • OS2
      In many cases a riddle [type] doesn’t need to be asked in a form of a question, however, many are just that type… a question.
      Riddle definition; *a question or statement intentionally phrased* … blah blah blah.

      Personally, in one aspect I agree with Ken that the poem is a riddle itself.
      My reasoning is; even though it may sound like the challenge is taking place over a vast area… it might be that it talks about a smaller location.
      Perception of what the poem might be truly depicting could be the same idea of the ant and a mud puddle, line of thinking.

      The other thing I ponder as the / a riddle, is more about *the process* of a search should know beforehand. I think the riddle is more about stanza 3 and what that stanza might imply.

      • Seeker, what caused me to post the question was thinking about the one question mark in the poem. And also, the other part of the definition of a riddle (much like the definition of ‘a few’ or ‘several’) is quantitative… many holes….. Ex: something very well know in gun country, ie, the stop sign was ‘riddled’ with bullet holes.

      • The problem I see about assuming a riddle [must] incorporate a question type format is that it leads the reader into missing the fact that some/alot of literary riddles are merely puzzles, phrases/groups of phrases, secrets, challenges, problems or statements designed to portray, divulge or challenge the reader to see/interpret an idea or concept from the writers perspective. This is not to say that the question in Fenn’s poem is useless or part of the big picture… however, it may only be a small part of the whole. Or not…

        • Ken, I repeat what I just wrote above to Geysergirl….. I dont know if I quote or paraphrase here, but….. “its risky (or dangerous? I dont have the quote handy) to discount any of the words. 15 years to write the poem by an author with a very handsome vocabulary? I think generalizations may be the the smoke and mirrors of the Chase.

          That first stanza troubles me as much as the Important Literature chapter.

    • “ It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key.”

  36. Just throwing a general question out here.

    Am I the only one who comes up with several possible solves from the same WWWH, then goes back to them over and over until I find all kinds of “but that just doesn’t seem right”, then question myself to the point of tossing them and starting all over again! LOL! I know I’m relatively new in the scheme of things here, but does more confidence come with more experience? I sure hope so!

    • Hi Geysergirl;

      The answer is yes – no. I have been at this fun game for just over 4 years. I have never changed my basic search area in all of that time. I have had to refine my basic solve eight or 9 times. As I said, I have never changed my basic search area. I have a “Big Picture Solve” that takes me from WWWsH to where I thought that it OUGHT to be – but wasn’t. I revised my ending six or seven times, and not have a “Small Area Solve” that starts near the end of my previous “Big Picture Solve.” I have revised the “Small Area Solve a time or two, and now feel that I am very close.

      So yes, I have started over a few times, but I have never thrown away my basic solve that I started with four years ago – But that is just me, and I could be like a dog chasing it’s tail in ever smaller circles – 🙂 JDA

      • Lol! Sounds like we are using the same method of attack! It’s been two years for me and same thing. Large picture remains the same, smaller picture is changing.

        Good luck come this Spring. I think it’s going to be a very interesting search season!

  37. Geysergirl- you live close . I now live in ferndale. If you would like let’s get together and have a cup of coffee sometime.

    • WoodyBogg – I appreciate the offer, but my husband is my hunt partner and he may get a bit jeoulous. Lol! Seriously though, if you are ever in Seeley, give me a shout and let’s do just that. Always fun to chat with another searcher (and not take up valuable post space and time here) 😉

  38. As this year comes to a close and we embark into 2020, I just want to wish all of the searchers happiness and prosperity in the new year. I especially want to wish Forrest Fenn, Peggy and family a happy new year. They deserve some peace and rest. Also to Dal for hosting this website and keeping it running. I don’t post much, but I get a lot of thoughts and ideas from reading all the posts. Happy 2020 everyone!

  39. Caller: “Hello, Mr Obvious. Just FYI, this is not my first rodeo, if you know what I mean. Anywho, here’s the million dollar question. The poem might have a riddle. But what does ‘riddle’mean here?”

    Mr Obvious: “Well caller, that’s easy. Just look up ’riddle’ the dictionary. Or, if you have an Internet connection just Google the darned thing.”

    Caller: “Exactly what I did there Mr Obvious. But there’s humpteen different meanings for the word ‘riddle’. Which meaning is the right one?”

    Mr Obvious: “Welcome to TTOTC caller. I hope you’re having fun.”

    Caller: “Ohhhh, heck yea , but …”

    Mr Obvious: “Times up caller. Got another searcher on the line.”

    Caller: “Thanks Mr Obvious, you’re the best.”

  40. Just got back from El Ninos. Had some chips & dip, but noticed the cheese was a little cold, so I said with a big cheesy grin…..

    Queso raw, so raw.

    Happy New Year!

  41. Just wanted to point out that we created a new interface for the Air Force Association videos. If you have not watched this 4 part series of videos with Forrest…you should. I think you’ll enjoy them. He pretty well covers the years from 1950 to 1970 in his life.

    To find them…go up on this page to the top and the right hand side…Look for “Forrest Speaks”. Directly under that is “Air Force Interview”…click on that and enjoy all four parts of the interview.

    • Thanks Dal! Please know that everything you and Forrest do here for the search community is so greatly apppreciated. It is what makes the search a lot of fun even knowing that 99.99999% of us will most likely never see Indulgence in person! Lol

      Happy New to you and all!

  42. Just wanted to wish everyone a Happy and Prosperous New Year!!

    We have a tradition in my home. We put some money outside before the new year rings in and then retrieve it afterwards. It doesn’t have to be much money because it’s the symbolism that matters. It’s to symbolize bringing in more money in the New Year. This year, I decided to put all my silver bullion on my front porch. Yeah, I know that money isn’t everything… my home already overflows with love in my family!

    I hope all are happy and healthy in 2020!


    • In many ways this rings so close to home… love, joy, and kindness are the heart of what makes a new year!

      Happy New Year to ALL!

  43. The clock struck midnight and a new year has begun. All the best to everyone.

    Happy New Year!

  44. Happy New Year to all!

    Let’s all hope that this is the year that Indulgence is found. What a Happy New Year that will be for some diligent searcher – He/She will have earned it. I wonder if He/She will ask Him/Her self – “What took me so long?” Have a GREAT year all – and remember – Try and STAY SAFE – JDA

    • Well Happy New Year to you too JDA.

      I can’t embrace your desires for the chest to be found this year, though. I’m eager for the Chase to continue for many more, personally.

      Only one will enrich themselves when they find the chest. But so very many, with no hopes of ever finding it, especially those lacking intelligence, lacking analysis, who work ever so diligently to spew random puke regularly on u-toob, or create coins or board games, seeking to enrich themselves from the mere existence of the Chase — why deny these bottom feeders their opportunity for income, which will cease when someone actually finds it?

      Nay — let’s let the bottom feeders have a couple more years of prosperity before it is actually found. They bring no value to humanity otherwise. Why deny them this, their only reason for being? Let’s be charitable.

      • These so-called “bottom feeders” are using capitalism to profit, are they not? Did you ever do this?

        I hope your apparent mood improves in 2020. I don’t think this hunt will
        last several more years (beyond now, that is). Of course the Chase will.

        As always, this message is part of my opinion.

        • The Chase is to promote appreciation of wilderness, as best I understand it. Many will search, only one will find. f’s objective is noble (presuming searchers don’t destroy the wilderness in the process).

          I don’t recall f ever mentioning that he created the Chase as a way to promote capitalism.

          I have my wealth due to capitalism, so I embrace it wholly. I just have no respect for those who have used the Chase for personal profit and no other reason.

        • Aardvarkbark: you’re certainly entitled to that opinion, but Forrest doesn’t seem to mind. Otherwise, there would be no Chase-related T-shirts, or searcher coins, or a Chaseopoly board game, and he would not agree to interviews with YouTubers.

          Also, consider that Forrest seems quite proud of the fact that he has apparently increased tourism in northern NM by 6%. Are not the hotels, motels, restaurants, airlines, rental car agencies, gas stations, and even National Parks benefiting or even profiting from the Chase?

          If you’re going to condemn the YouTube content providers, you should equally condemn the hundreds or even thousands of people who watch them. After all, without demand, there would be no supply.

      • Wow, what bitterness, Ardvarkbark! Lady Luck is a fickle girl & rewarding merit is not in her DNA. We’re all going to laugh when some unemployed newbie with 12 kids and a pickup stumbles upon it on a fishing trip.

        Happy New Year all…….. Hope that Fickle Lady does good by you all this year. OS2

        • S&P500 up 30% in 2019. I be doin OK, thanks very much.

          No bitterness, just calling out the charlatans who are glomming off the Chase for no reason other than personal profit, when f created the Chase for much more noble reasons.

      • Aardvarbark, That is just nasty. I believe we are in this for the Thrill and hope it is found this year. Would love for Forrest to see it solved and his bracelet on his wrist where it belongs. Paulette

        • Paulette,

          I have said that for the longest time. But for one man(and woman) has given hope to hundreds of thousands of searchers. And let’s not forget…there’s more to this story.

          IMO Only…


    • Hi JDA – ” I wonder if He/She will ask Him/Her self – “What took me so long?””

      In a word yes! Have a Happy New Year!

  45. 2020
    Everyone still thinks I’m crazy,
    The look on their faces is gonna be priceless.
    Although I am looking for a magic box in the mountains…b.

    • LOVE IT @JasonHall!
      It’s how we are all perceived and what we all hope for…

      TTOTC friends who understand one another’s craziness;-))

  46. Any word on the Dippity-Do that is suing Mr. Fenn for moving the treasure? The blame game is something else. Can’t find the treasure? Get hurt along the way? Die? Only person to blame is the one you see in the mirror. May the fleas of a thousand camels invade the armpits of those who impress their angst toward Mr. Fenn!

  47. Happy New Year to Forrest and Dal, and to all the searchers out there! They say hindsight is always 20/20. Let’s hope 2020 is the year we find the golden hind. 🙂

  48. Happy New Year To Everyone

    I’ve got a question for you guys and I would like to get your thoughts on it.

    There has been some talk on the forums recently regarding the mysterious object which looks like some kind of plate that sits down the side of the inside of the chest.

    I am thinking could it possibly be a rare dollar bill or some other rare paper money that is sealed inside a possible plastic plate.

    Making this the one thing that Forrest doesn’t want to talk about.


    • Hi Billie — as I alluded on one of the other forums earlier today, Forrest once had paper money in the chest but decided against it. See SB 31, but here’s the relevant text from it:

      “I put the $1,000 bill and two $500 bills in the treasure chest originally but after thinking about it I took them out because I didn’t know how moisture would effect them over a long period of time. I wish now I had left them in the chest.”

      • I find this statement of Mr. Fenn to be odd. Maybe it’s even an aberration. What is the significance of another $2000? In the scheme of things it’s not much. There is something fishy about this. Hmmm?

    • Billie-
      Are you talking about the image of the box that is displayed on many of the blogs like the one here:

      That has two cases tucked in. One in the back side and one on the right side. The one in back is a coin display case and has part of a gold coin visible. Could be a set of gold coins. The stack of coin cases in front of it probably hold individual gold coins…possibly the double eagles Forrest mentioned.

      The case on the right side is a currency case and probably holds the $500 and $1,000 bills JD was talking about. A close examination shows the curved “00” of a $1,000 bill.

      Remember though, that photo was taken while Forrest was still experimenting with the actual placement of items in the chest. So that may or may not be the final placement or even the final items left in the chest.

        • Zap-
          If you go to Google Images and search for “Forrest Fenn Treasure Chest” you will find a few higher resolution copies of that image on different blogs and forums.

      • Hi Del
        Those are plastic holders are for graded coins.The grading
        companies will grade the coins and then seal them in
        the holders with its grade.Forrest said he took the
        coin out of the holders so he could get more coins
        in the tc.Clint

          • Hi ace 340: after dozens of interviews, it wouldn’t surprise me if Forrest has failed to be 100% consistent about the number of gold coins in the chest. But just do a tarryscant of 265 vs. 256 and you will see lots of results for the former, and zero for the latter.

            I know that on at least one occasion (Richard Eeds interview) Forrest has ~probably~ mistakenly attached that 265 number to the number of rubies in the chest (the vast majority on the dragon coat bracelet). It’s perhaps more interesting that he has been inconsistent about the number of rubies: “hundreds”, “lots of”, “about 280”, “a number of”, “200 something”, “260 some”, and “I think 270”. Gadi Schwartz once said 254 — which is consistent with the number of rubies on the dragon coat bracelet according to page 130 of TTOTC. (Side note: Lorene Mills on one occasion said the bracelet had 246).

            I was a little surprised to discover that in TTOTC he doesn’t actually ever mention the number of gold coins in the chest. If someone had quizzed me, I would have felt confident that the 265 number was there, but it isn’t.

          • Hi again, ace 340. Regarding the Forrest Fenn Treasure Guide that you linked to, a couple things don’t inspire confidence. The first is blowing the 265 number. The second is Phil’s quote:

            “Since then, I can genuinely say that I have spent over 200 hours doing research, gathering information about the search, and developing my own personal theories.”

            200? I doubt there’s a searcher on this blog that has invested *less* than 200 hours, so is this really a number to crow about?

          • Yes, and I would concur with what Zap is saying. 265, IMO, does come into play as a hint.

    • BtK,
      You will have to find the chest to know exactly what’s in it when he hid it.

      I don’t think anything in the chest will help anyone find the chest if you knew exactly what’s in it.

  49. Hi Dal, Forrest and searcher community!

    I was thinking since we are all in the deep of winter and before the busy spring…..
    Is it time for another fun Contest?

    Does anyone have any contest Suggestions?
    I wouldn’t mind offering up a unique prize for the winner.! Unless someone else has a better idea.


  50. Yes. How about a humorous contest. It could be based on “Did you hear about the searcher who…..

    And then there would be the punchline.

    Here’s an example: Did you hear about the searcher who brought bear spray with him when he went shopping?
    He thought his wife said they were going to a maul.

    OK. Very bad. But you get the point. Best joke wins a prize. lol.

  51. Has anyone run across the books about Penrod by Booth Tarkington? First written in 1914 they seem to cover some of the same ground that FF does. Just wondering if anyone else find it intriguing.

    • I sometimes wonder if literature that’s commonly available to the public is always helpful. Pernod sounds familiar but the adventures of Huckle-Berry Fenn and Tom SawYer’s life sound like better “reads” in my opinion.


  52. Ok I’m in. Here we go. Did you here the one about the searcher who found the treasure. He was conflicted. Wasn’t sure if he could grin and bear it. 🙂

  53. A searcher goes into a grocery store looking for a can of peas.

    Searcher: where can I find a can of peas.

    Clerk: Isle C10

    Searcher: exactly what does that mean?

    Clerk: it means exactly what I said. What do you want from me buddy? A hint?

    Searcher: That would be great!
    (The clerk walks away rolling his eyes while the searcher ponders the possibilities.

    Searcher: By golly I think I have it! Isle C10 …..I’LL SEE 10! But 10 what? Steps, displays? And would a can of peas (Ps) be in the isle after “O”? I’m so confused.

    • Quite funny, I cracked a genuine smile, thanks. Its nice to have others around who think alike. If it were not for this I would have thought I had gone crazy a long time ago. g

  54. Its not a joke. I’ve stated before that I believe there are several clues after the blaze. I decided to add something that has to do with the chase in hopes of stopping the attempts at humor. There are at least 3 more clues after the blaze IMO.

  55. Lighting candles at both ends. Candles are often lit when praying to get someone out of purgatory. ?

  56. Suffering from the winter NBOTG Blues ?, I found Dals beautiful footage much needed and refreshing ( Dal, I hope this is ok to repost your Link here)
    Is it strange to love the mud pots so much, because I could watch that all day and have ! 😉 https://vimeo.com/53872866

  57. We have been working to get the interviews with Forrest that I shot over the years reorganized in a better way. Thanks to Chris for moving nearly all the videos over to YouTube I think we now have better playback that works well with a computer, tablet or phone. We have also reorganized the interface to make everything easier to load up and easier to tell what year they were filmed.

    They are located at the top right of this and every page on the blog under “Forrest Speaks”. We have also put the AFA interview in that category even though I did not shoot that interview.

    We still have work to do…still a few videos that need to be moved off Vimeo and some thumbnails and descriptions that need to be touched up…but I hope you find that the videos are easier to find and easier to watch..

    Finally…you can comment on the index pages for the videos…


  58. Everyone – Should we discuss that part in TTOTC, where Forrest mentions Borders, and Robert Redford as being a better potential author than two other famous ones? Was that chapter called, “Important Literature”? Do y’all know that “The Outlaw Trail” was published in 1978? Do you think Forrest read it, before writing that statement in TTOTC? Is this a clue to read Robert Redford’s book?:


    Try your local library. I did. And I am reading “The Outlaw Trail” by Robert Redford, while sitting next to the fireplace there, now.

  59. In the Home of Brown thread, Lori wrote: “Considering the only real evidence that we are allowed to consider are the poem, the book, and the map, everything else is just supplemental information.”

    I think you can discard the book (TTOTC). The poem and the map, I agree with. And while FF has made many verbal comments that searchers have latched on to (to justify their own solutions), I would disregard most of FF’s verbal comments, with a few exceptions which I think are genuinely helpful.

    Forrest has made it quite clear that combined with a good map, everything a searcher needs to find the chest is in the poem.

    But since a lot of searchers seem to have given up on the poem, they look for “hints” in TTOTC, the scrapbooks, historical information, and other non-poem resources. None of this extraneous information is useful, in my opinion; it’s all distraction from the poem.

    Lori says that “FF does not mention Colorado or any place in Colorado in TTOTC”. Lori, how can you so blithely eliminate an entire state, just because there is no mention of it in TTOTC? Colorado is one of the 4 target states.

    Forrest has already said: “The book [TTOTC] won’t take you to the treasure chest …” The book will only help you with “the clues”, not the location. So the chest could be in any of the 4 states, one of which is Colorado.

    Yet searchers read TTOTC; it talks a lot about Yellowstone, and New Mexico, and so that’s where searchers go to search. But the book also talks a lot about Vietnam. Maybe we searchers should override FF’s comments about the 4 states; thereby dropping Colorado from the search, and in its place inserting Vietnam. 🙂

    Ken (in Texas)

  60. Hi Ken,
    I understand what you are saying, and I agree with most of what you said.
    I agree that the poem and the map are THE most important tools for any solve.
    FF does not admit that there are any clues in the book (except the poem), and says that chapters in the book provide hints to help understand the clues in the poem. So I rank the book at #2 in priority.

    For me, the solve will have a connection with all three (poem, book, and map). The reason I include the book, even though it only provides hints, is because that is where he tells us where his special places are. The poem is unclear about that and a map is no help.

    That’s why I said in my OP that when I look at any solve, the first question in my mind is:
    How is this place special to Forest Fenn?
    There are places in the book that would qualify, but they are not on a map of the Rocky Mountains. Places on the RM map that are not in the book, I won’t consider, like Colorado.

    BUT… if I follow a clue from the poem/book that leads me into Colorado AND I can see that it was somehow special to FF, I would consider it. But I find it hard to consider a place special that he did not mention in his memoirs.

    Just my methodology. Your mileage may vary.

  61. In competitive road cycling, like the Tour de France for example, a cyclist’s race event history is recorded as time to finish and whether or not they “podiumed”—achieved third place or better. When a cyclist crashes, is injured or sick and cannot complete a race, the result is recorded as a “DNF,”—for “DID NOT FINISH.” Similarly, when a seacher in The Chase goes BOTG and comes up empty handed, it should be called a “DNF,”—for “DID NOT FIND.” As in, “I went BOTG in West Yellowstone last week and DNFed—but I had a blast!”

    • Hi, Ronny Lee,

      If I understand you correctly, the Chase should be a race, right?
      I don’t think that this Chase is a competitive race.
      But… I don’t know.
      Like a kind of paradox.
      By the way, what does BOTG means?

      • BotG = Boots on the Ground.

        Is it a race? Good question. All I know is that I hope I beat you (and all other searchers) to the spot where Indulgence is secreted. Is that a race? It is to me – JMO (Just my opinion) JDA

        P.S. Welcome to the Chase (race) – 🙂

  62. I have been wondering, is “And take it in the canyon down” really as simple as taking your search into the canyon south or down in elevation from WWWH? If I remember correctly, f has said after WWWH the clues get easier, or progressively easier. It is entirely possible that it’s just a straightforward clue to go south or down in the canyon, or even to just look at/into the canyon. However, knowing WWWH is the hardest clue, wouldn’t it be a giant leap to simplicity to think the next clue is as easy as “go south in the canyon”?


    • Distant Logic,

      You have hit on something I have pondered for months on end.
      Imho, ” IT ” is an important word within the context of the poem.
      Note; Begin IT where warm waters halt. And take IT in the canyon down.
      The big question in my mind is what is ” IT “? Is it an animal trail? A road to where a searcher parks their car?? So for the pun of IT, I must say the question of IT is a 2 million dollar question.


      • HDD and DL-
        Please use the proper page to discuss “what is it”. You’ll find that page under the Topics for Discussion menu.
        While you’re there you might want to read what others have already discussed about “it”..

        • Thanks Dal. I’m new to the search and the site and I have read some of that page but I didn’t see a page dedicated to what may be the second clue, “and take it in the canyon down”, so I figured this would be the place for that. I’m not ready to delve deep into considering what “it” may be so I went simple and just assumed “it” is the search. My post was meant to be focused on how many people consider the entirety of that line in the poem to mean go south/down into a canyon, and solves of that sort. My thought for discussion was that a solve like that just seems too simple considering we know WWWH is the hardest clue, so, for the next clue to be so straightforward/simple just seems a bit off to me. Do you have any thoughts, Dal?

  63. Dal,
    has Forrest told you or stated where his saber tooth skull is from?

    The reason I ask…although unrelated to the treasure’s location, I believe one of the poem’s secrets is ff disclosing where it was found in New Mexico. I’ll be disappointed if it wasn’t uncovered in Northern NM near Raton.

  64. Question, Mr. Fenn has told us that the poem is straight forward. He has told us that the words on the page mean exactly what they say. He has told us that there are hints in TTOTC book to help unlock the clues in the poem. He has told us that the poem is a riddle. Are all of those statements compatible? Thanks

    • James,
      I believe that the poem is straight forward and the words mean what they say. As for TTOTC, I believe that he told us there are hints in the book but they are not specifically placed to help searchers, so I don’t believe they unlock anything. I also believe that the poem is a riddle.. to me and my solve, they are all compatible. JMO


    • James,

      Example; what’s black and white and red (read) all over?

      This riddle is better for a verbal challenge rather than a written one… But to the point;
      The reader need to think how, what sounds like colors are not actually colors. Even in print form, black and white are not colors. So, which red – read is more likely the correct word.

      It’s all straight forward.
      The words mean exactly what they say.
      There are hints… But in this case… The hints are knowing about the color spectrum we all learned in School ( call that the book, if you will ).

      So what is the problem from the start? It’s all about a precondition notion that we think READ is RED as a color.
      I have suggested the poem is similar and the one major example is how “take it in” is read as. Be it of a movement or a view, the poem is now read differently… And gives a possible meaning for what is needed right from the start… What “begin IT” may imply how the reader proceeds in deciphering clues.

      Is the above explanation a straight forward, words mean what the are challenge to discover that the answer is a new paper? Having nothing to do with colors as predetermined by many?

      • For some reason this made me think of “net balance” and saving for a rainy day. Crazy huh?

      • Seeker you hit it right on the money. Its the same thing I say about canyon down . to me its doesn’t mean to go down the canyon . To me it means the bottom of the canyon

        • Frank,
          It might be likely you’re correct about that assumption, depending on how you read into this Q&A; https://people.com/celebrity/author-forrest-fenn-talks-about-missing-treasure-hunter/
          …And I can tell you an 80-year-old man is not going to make a trip into a canyon, then come up and go down again…

          It could mean an 80 yr old [fenn] is already in a canyon and there’s no need to go up and down again.

          I don’t think it says that… but one could surmise it that way.
          Personally, I think it relates to fenn; following his own clues, making two trips from his car to the hide, and not going where an 80 yr old can’t… from the first clue.
          The easiest version of this is; fenn parked as close to the search / clue area, and walked to the clues area [without descending a canyon] , following them to complete the solve / poem.

          The only major distance covered [walking] would be the hike from the car to the clues area. IMO, everything else regarding the remaining clues are relatively close by and visual from clue one.

          • thank you Seeker again I agree with you- what you said is the way I think thanks for your reply frank

      • Seeker & Anyone interested…
        “The poem’s rainbow”
        of hints at color; descriptors I see in the poem when justified into grid format(no spaces between words).

        1. White
        2. Snow, snowy
        3. Blue (tule blue) Lace
        3.5 lace veil
        4. Heavenly vue (sky blue)
        4. Verde (Spanish-green)
        5. Pea
        6. (Y)ellow
        7. Lavender
        8. Red
        9. Brown, mud,
        10. Chesnut
        11. Pea (green)
        12. Black
        13. Gray
        14. Blood/bleed red
        15. “Broose” (Black & blue)
        16. Gin (clear)
        17. Downy (feather white)
        19. A(s)ure azure
        20. Teal
        21. Sea (clear blue/green)
        22. UR cake (uranium cake equal fluorescent yellow)
        22.5 yello cake clay
        23. Sand
        24. Gravel (gray)
        25. Sunset, sun, blaze
        26. Tar, clay
        27. Nude
        28. Black
        29. Violet
        30. Pee
        31. Cheese
        32. Saddle (brown)
        33. Tan
        34. Rose
        35. Steel, tin, iron
        (Steel gurnee/gurney)
        36. White hot
        37. Dun
        38. Blonde
        39. Orang(e)
        40. Pine
        41. Fir tree
        42. Olive
        43. Gold
        44. Money (green)
        45. Brown thorn; wood
        46. Night (dark/black)
        47. Day
        48. Pot/hemp/thyme
        (All run together in poem)shades of green/brown
        50. Leche (Spanish- milk)
        51. Mar-oon
        52. Heart rare red
        53. Boy blu
        54. Lonely (blue)
        55. Chess ( B & W squares)
        56. SMU Mustang (a red pony) Yes, SMU Mustang is in the poem – lines 16/17 stacked. What is it there for??
        57. UT Horns (University of Texas Longhorns) burnt orange
        58. Pool (Color would depend on swimming pool or pool of green in the Madison River).
        58. Forest (green)
        59. Fen/Bog
        60. Roi (Latin king)
        Koenig(German king), Queen, HRH: royal purple
        61. “Just Ju stake”
        (cross of Christ = Brown wood

        ALL of these words can be found in the poem’s grid…Word search like a kid for “surrounding” letters.

        For anyone wondering if justifying left into a grid is messing with the poem…

        Read first letters of LINES
        12 & 13

        12. JUST
        13. IFY

        Note: When colors are displayed as LIGHT, Black is the absence of all color, and white is the presence of all colors. Scientific experiments show combining all colors of a prism overlaid yields white light.

        Obviously, When colors are painted with natural pigments the results of mixing color is different than with light. Example: (Greens + reds = shades of brown or mud)

        **ANYONE, I would love your comments on the following question:

        What color do you think represents brave?

        (perhaps related to solving the poem) could be red or brown as representing native American Braves; or Air Force blue; army green?

        Personally(just opinion)
        I like the color teal to represent bravery,.. it’s a combination of peaceful colors blue and green without a hint of fearful colors; a mixture of Colors from water, sky & vegetation in their simplicity.

          • Hi all,
            I’m going to try this again.
            Last night on Cowlazars you tube show, they showed a video produced by Cynthia Meechum of chasingfenntreasures.com, where she told us that Forrest told her that “there will be a big surprise this year”. You can view this for yourself via this link at minute mark 14.00…

          • Thank you for the link, Eaglesabound. It is interesting news. Curious to see what it could be.

          • Eaglesabound,
            There are a lot of big surprises every year. All those that know where the treasure is, goes POOF and they are surprised that the treasure isn’t there where they thought and Fenn sees those emails.

            Cynthia stated “There are a lot of big surprises coming out next year” from what she heard from Fenn.
            NOT what you stated above: “there will be a big surprise this year”. I can see why your comments were deleted and we need to be more accurate on what was said and by who.

            Who really knows what Fenn said to her?
            She may be misquoting or misinterpreting.

          • Why is he telling Cynthia and not Dal, or the other bloggers and searchers? Why not come right out on this blog and say “Hey, there are a lot of big surprises coming out this year.”
            Why does so much of what Forrest says go through her? I figured that Forrest would keep the playing field even. So, what’s up with that?

            Forrest, if it’s true what she is saying then please tell us here on Dal’s blog so we can all catch up on the (any) news. I am sure Dal and all of us searchers would be grateful if you did. Thanks.

          • ManOwar-
            Cynthia visits Forrest often. They are friends. They chat. He says things and Cynthia shares them with us…that’s all…
            He didn’t tell her where the chest is. He didn’t give her any clues. He didn’t share anything with her that will help her…
            They probably had lunch together. Cynthia is easy to get along with and Forrest enjoys her company…
            I don’t think you should expect him not to have friends and I think its unrealistic to expect him not to talk to her when she visits…
            Forrest says that he hasn’t given anyone any information that will help them find the chest and I believe him…Not even his family has found the chest and imagine what they must know that we don’t…and they don’t share things with us like Cynthia does…
            I am grateful that Cynthia listens and Cynthia shares…

          • Dal, I too am grateful that Cynthia shares.
            Dal, I’m not saying he is giving any chase info out to her or to anyone, just that something along the lines of something this big, like big surprises coming out this year, would be better appreciated if he would have told us all here on your blog, instead of having us wonder if what she is relaying is exactly what he told her. Get my point.?
            Of course he has friends and relates to them many things, but this should have been revealed by him, not her. And no, I don’t think that Forrest would spill any details of the chase with anyone, that wasn’t my point.
            Sorry, if you misunderstood my point.

          • Eaglesabound – Interesting news. We’ll see what surprises lie in store for 2020!

            I wonder if Forrest figured out a good way to kick off that second treasure hunt for the youth of Santa Fe that he was contemplating in Scrapbook 241? That was the first idea that popped into my head.

          • To be fair, according to Cynthia, f told her that a word that is key is not about just one word (paraphrased).

            Also, his supposed mentioning to her that hoB isn’t a man made structure.

          • Manofwar,

            What the difference in Jenny’s many Q&A’s between her and fenn to be posted on her site, and her subscribers asking question by way of her blog, or Dal’s having SBs no other blogs seem to get, or any other social media chatter from fenn that involves a personal blog vs. another?

            You said ~ *Why does so much of what Forrest says go through her [Cynthia]? I figured that Forrest would keep the playing field even. So, what’s up with that?*

            I guess I don’t see much of a difference…
            I mean, fenn [ as far as I can tell ] never really made a comment about the first clue being WWsH *directly* in any blog or USA media venue… yet, specifically told a NZ radio show [in 2013] *where the first clue actually is in the poem.* Even when ask by many searchers and many of the blogs dedicate to the chase, after 2013.
            Fair or unfair?
            Was it for early searcher who did know for sure where the first clues was, before 2013?

            Read the blogs for entertainment… comes to mind… That’s the only rule I recall about a personal blog or web page.

          • FD,
            You didn’t indicate who you were respond to or about when you said:
            Fundamental Design on January 11, 2020 at 11:14 am said:
            Go on a botg search or many then get back to us.

            Whom get back for what-?-were you inferring?

          • Yes, the point wasn’t anyone specific. The point was multiple botg searches that cost money and how that factor wasn’t included yet into the discussion.

            Keeping things fair for each searcher to decide for themselves.

          • FD,

            Well, we are on the oddies thread… What is it about; multiple botg searches that cost money-?-and how that factor wasn’t included yet into the discussion.

            The conversation was about why Cynthia posting something on her blog.
            I mean, there have been emails [shown by searchers] on one blog or another, whom were in conversation with fenn about… Whatever… Example; DG’s was kind enough to show part of one: if memory serves me correctly; about hoB, where in part fenn said [ recalling from memory ] *where do you live*?

            So my obvious question for your comment would be; how does anything mentioned to another cost searchers anything at all? Be it shared or not.

            What factors are you referring to; wasn’t included yet into the discussion.

            I’m curious…anyone else?

  65. Is it odd or just a coincidence that Jenny Kile’s
    6 ?’s on the 4th was now
    4 ?’s on the 6th. 6 on 4 to 4 on 6 seems like
    a butterfly-flutterby nod to me.
    Maybe that’s the word that,s key.
    Oops, that rhymes. Do I need to post this on
    the poetry page?

      • I concur, Eaglesabound. I just read Cynthia’s blog in regards to this. It appears 2020 will be quite interesting.

  66. Four questions with Forrest over at Mysterious Writings. IMO, that was a wasted opportunity.

      • Although the “6 questions” usually were in typical ff speak, of saying something without giving anything away.

        There are a few that seem valuable over the years; as a group, we could point those out.

        I’ll start:

        1) “little girl from india”, valuable in that it gives an indication of how to interpret the first two clues, and by contrast, how to interpret the other 7 clues.

        2) ‘500’ footer and/or ‘200’ footer…, valuable in that it can be used to interpret the last (or last few) clues.

      • Dal, thanks for the hot link to Jenny’s questions and Forrest’s answers.

        Forrest answered,

        “My vision tells me that it is only a matter of time until someone finds the treasure.“

        The obvious and FUN interpretation is that his poem will be solved & his treasure found in 2020.

        The less obvious interpretation would be that Forrest had a “vision” and somehow knows when the poem will be solved & the treasure found. I know people are rolling their eyes at this comment, but Forrest is an extraordinary and unusual human being who self describes himself as a little bit weird. It is possible that he had a vision/dream/unusual experience at the time of cancer while working through death, and wrote this poem to correspond with his vision of his future.

        VISION (noun only) Definitions
        from The American Heritage® Dictionary 5th Edition.

        noun The faculty of sight; eyesight.
        noun Something that is or has been seen.
        noun Unusual competence in discernment or perception; intelligent foresight.
        noun The manner in which one sees or conceives of something.
        noun A mental image produced by the imagination.
        noun The mystical experience of seeing something that is not in fact present to the eye or is supernatural.
        noun A person or thing of extraordinary beauty.

        Anyone have thoughts?

        • Yes, IMO it’s quite simple actually. Eventually at some point in the future, between now and forever, someone will find the treasure. It’s only a matter of time. It’s an extremely vague comment but also accurate.

        • I would also assume he only used the word “vision” because the question was formulated as “What vision do you have….”

          • Question for y’all –
            Did he write the poem BEFORE he knew he was going to survive his cancer?

    • Thanks, Afana & Dal! Yeah, I don’t see any especially new information to be drawn out from these questions & answers. Even though Forrest is repeating a lot of advice he previously gave, it’s still good stuff to keep in mind.

    • Hi Writis: what few “pictures” of the treasure chest that deluded searchers share with the community make the pictures of Bigfoot look professional.

    • Afana- I totally agree with you, complete waste of a great opportunity. Might as well asked him what he had for breakfast for all the help they were. IMO. -Jay

  67. Hi Guys,

    Has anyone else noticed the following;

    Forrest gives 4 questions on the 6th January.
    4 + 6 = 10

    Forrest normally gives 6 questions on the 4th February.
    6 + 4 = 10

    10, 100, 1000 years all have the no 10s

    20/20 Vision = the year 20/20

    It will be 10 years this summer since Forrest hid indulgence somewhere in the Rocky Mountains at least 8.25 miles north of Santa fe.

    10/20/20 watch this date IMO


  68. Howdy 42
    I am surfing the blog this morning and just saw your post. The finding of Mega Fauna ( Saber-Toothed Tigers, Mastedon, and other beasties of pre-history are often found in relationship to Tar Pits. There are Tar Pits in Northern New Mexico near I believe Terra Amarillo where Eric Sloan once had a house.

    Sometime earlier in the chase Forrest gave away samples of Mastedon tusk to those who requested a sample.
    I think the tusk was recovered in New Mexico. At some point I hope to have my sample stabilized and inbedded in a sterling bracelet per chance.

    Something to spin around in the grey matter is the possibility that “TARRY” is a word to be in “tight focus” with.

    All opinionated content
    “The Largest Of All Nations Is The Imagination”

    • @Guy Michael,
      Thanks for your response, and helpful information. It would be interesting to learn if Forrest found the saber tooth skull or traded for it/purchased it.

      • Heya 42
        Spelling correction: TIERRA AMIRILLO
        My bad.

        In the 50s Eric ( not his real name ) lived in the Taos area. I have notes compiled that I gleaned from sleuthing the world wide web. Where I pin-pointed that info exactly I do not know but did a very extensive search into the life and times of Eric. He plays a major role in my opinion in the Chase.
        Research now has me gandering at his paintings, he painted some in just brown hues. Of interest are some of rural houses painted in Brown’s (HOME OF BROWN). The quest now before me is finding locations of some of those paintings wondering if he painted Plien Aire.
        “Thinking Is The Best Way To Travel”

        • Guy Michael,
          I also believe Erich Sloane plays a big part in the solution.
          Please see my rainbow of colors found in the poem above on this thread.

          I can tell you from reading about Sloan that he did not like to paint plein air (outdoors). He preferred his studio as he could count on the light being consistent. My favorite Eric Sloane contributions to the art world are his simple black line sketches. He was truly a “Pen Ace” In both Words and sketches. My favorite Forrest Fenn book is “$17 A Square Inch”
          In which Forrest proves he’s not only a flying ace, but also an ace with his pen.

  69. Seeker,

    That is something that has eluded me for years. Being fairly versed in word usage.
    I have fallen into a chasm of brain freeze. Sadly I do realize the solution to the poem is knowing the meanings of words and being able to view the poem from that perspective mentally. One of these days I hope to write another version of the poem from that perspective.
    However that all depends on getting my todo lists done and having time to delve into it.

    Best wish to all


  70. I am gonna repeat my question that I posted above since there was not a reply button.

    Question for y’all –
    Did he write the poem BEFORE he knew he was going to survive his cancer?

    Or at least the first draft of the poem which then had to be modified due to his miraculous recovery.

    • @wwwamericana, how many years do you think Forrest endured the uncertainty of his long term prognosis, and wondering if the cancer was 100% eradicated or might return??
      I went thru a much easier cancer than Forrest, but for me at stage 3, I have a 10 year waiting period. It may have been a very long haul mentally for Forrest.

      • Mine was not to bad but the treatments had a reaction they had not seen. It got loose in my system and took me out, but they sent me back. Why i’m still not sure. I was calm and ready, then back here. Now what, I thought. It took a few years to come to grips with having to go on here in pain and worries, but on I went. Then the pain and worries for the most part were chased away. For this I am thankful. A busy mind can block out heavy loads. g

    • wwwamericana,

      I would have to say that the poem was written before Forrest beat the odds.

      Correct me if I’m wrong, but the first draft stated…

      Just take the chest but leave my bones…

      That implies some sort of impending doom, thus it was written before…but it’s complicated.

      IMO Only. .


        • Hey Lori,

          That is a wonderful link! I had only heard him “reading” the poem before. Now I have seen him doing so. He actually recites most of it from memory. But, in doing so, the onlooker can gain a sense of what the poem means from his point of view. I haven’t quite finished the entire interview but I think there is more info from watching that than reading through all of the chatter!


          • Agreed, that is one of the better interviews. Good questions and thoughtful answers.

            It seems that recent questions are not given much thought. I was reading the “four” questions and thought “Who asked that?” Wasted opportunity.

            oh well.

        • wwwamericana,

          My cousin said there’s some near Somalia. Is there a town by that name in Wyoming? He enjoys skiing and Snow Boardimf. I told him to break a leg…he said LIKEWISE!

          Gives new meaning to IF YOU’VE BEEN LIKEWISE AND FOUND THE BLAZE!

          IMO Only…


    • “I crafted a poem that’s in my book. It has nine clues in it, and I changed that poem over a 15 year period. People read that poem and it’s there, “He sat down and wrote that poem in 15 minutes.” It took me 15 years.
      I don’t think Fenn ever specifies the timeline, but I think he began writing the poem before he got sick and fiished it after he recovered.

      • Randawg,

        The Illness was what kicked started it all… what gives you the impression * I think he began writing the poem before he got sick …*?

          • Lori-
            That quote from Forrest that you linked to caused quite a stir in the blogosphere when he wrote it. On the surface it seems simple but at the core it is quite confusing for at least two reasons:
            1. He claimed he spent 15 years writing the poem in at least two interviews:
            One was at the Collected Works interview in 2013 filmed by Toby
            2. The other was a story by Billie Frank on the Santa Fe Travelers website from 2014 but that story seems to have been taken down…
            It was a second hand piece of information anyway…but the gist was the same…Forrest spent 15 years correcting and rewriting and perfecting his poem.

            So what’s so confusing about this is that he has said in numerous places that he hid the chest when he was 79 or 80…That was 2009 or 2010…We also know that TTOTC was published in the fall of 2010 with the poem in it and the treasure hunt was first announced on Forrest’s website in the fall of 2010…

            So if he wrote the poem after he hid the chest…and he hid the chest in 2009 or 2010 how could the poem have appeared in the book…
            which came out in 2010..??? You don’t print a thousand copies of a book overnight.

            I think the answer is that he spent 15 years working and rewriting the poem…He was probably also working on TTOTC at the time. But neither was finished when he hid the chest…

            Let’s say he hid the chest in the fall 2009…then he quickly finished the poem. Finalized the book with the poem in it in the spring of 2010 and got the book to the printers so it could be available for purchase at Collected Works Bookstore in the fall of 2010.

            Hence the chest was hidden before he finished the book or the poem…but everything was completed in the space of a few weeks or months.

            That’s my take on it…but it doesn’t help me find the chest…

          • Ok, Thanks, Randawg.. I was just curious if the idea may have been influence by his fathers action 2 years earlier.. might have been what you could have meant by… before.

          • Thanks Dal,

            That is kinda what I was thinking. I also don’t rule out that sometimes Forrest gets tongue-tied and doesn’t say exactly what he is thinking.

            An example of that is when he is talking about Canada not being on the Benchmark Map, and he didn’t know it.

            He says, “There’s the major clue in the book, but I don’t think it will help you find the treasure chest. I’ll tell you what the clue is. In the back of my book, there’s a map. I’ve said that the treasure chest is hidden in the Rocky Mountains. Here’s a treasure chest of the Rocky Mountains. If you knew where the treasure chest is hidden, you could find it on this map. The map stops at Canada. The Rockies keep going up there, but I said that it’s in the Rocky Mountains which would include Canada. When this book was printed, I didn’t realize that Benchmark Maps that made this map stopped at the Canadian border. That’s a clue, but it’s not going to help you much.”

            I think when he said “Here’s a treasure chest of the Rocky Mountains.” he meant to say “here is a MAP of the Rocky Mountains.”

            He also has said something to the effect of what difference does it make what word I use as long as you understand what I am saying.

            But still, he keeps us thinking, and usually, we are thinking “what the hell did he mean by that?” LOL


          • Puzzles and riddles come into use when facts are purportedly gray.

            Hid in 2002-2003 I’d say is as my opinion.

          • Alsetenash,
            I thought some of Fenns affluent clients and friends saw the chest in his closet years after 2003.

          • I agree with your theory Dal… But I am a super slow poem writer… It would take probably over 50 hours just to write a poem with 26 lines that rhymed that’s no clues for a hidden treasures just a poem… I bet Forrest is much faster at spitting out a poem like Focused… 🙂

          • Spallies-
            We’ll…15 years seems pretty slow..lol…and there was an earlier version that was ready to go when he decided not to let the cancer kill him…which is another mystery…
            He had both a poem and a chest back in ’88-89 when he was preparing to end his life before the cancer could…
            What happened to that chest? Is that the same chest that we are looking for now?
            If so, that means he bought the chest prior to 1989 or so…

            At any rate…this was a lengthy activity that took a lot of twists and turns before he finally hid that chest, rewrote the poem as we know it today and published TTOTC.

            Forrest has a lot of resolve…

          • @Jake F. Yes, indeed I am aware of that information. Plus all other info available that is common to reference. Though ,as with what Dal and others have as opinions above; I have a personal conclusion , as with best to my ability to discern, that he hid it in 2003.

            He is/was a bronze artist and had a foundry , right? Include his high intelligence, wisdom and knowledge in his repertoire. Do you think he thought he would figure the need to outsmart and outwit the Alphabet analysts that would atrempt to participate in the TTOTC? What happened in 2009?

            I’d think he’d saw them coming, don’t you think? 6 or 7 years ahead . I think the reason is in his meaning to the ‘Significant’ to the story. I have thought this for quite some time. The ‘Significant’ was an added credence, imo .

            He’s a darn good riddle and puzzle story teller.

            IMO .

          • Also, Jake F. Him saying he hid it in 2009/2010 is true also , for he is being honest, always. I’m not implying the opposite here. I include that he hid the the actual chest and also hid some or a one specific item of the treasure contents first in 2002/2003. So, basically he has been honest in all that he has said in his said timelines that add to the question. Both 2002/2003 and 2009/2010 are in play and apply in this. They are both in play here- not an either or event.

            No deception, but likely truth in both. One said specifically and the other(s) not specifically but realistically by what he has said. Putting all that he has said relative to this as being one event, will not make sense. But as two events they make sense.

            Does this help with finding the chest or the clues?I’d say no. Though, it it’s a puzzle piece of the first stanza….in my opinion.

            IMO .

          • Alsetenash: “Does this help with finding the chest or the clues?I’d say no.”
            Sounds good to me.

          • Alsetenash,

            If your assuming is correct… Which personally makes no difference to me. The only possible ‘difference’ would be IF there were more changes to the poem after 2003 and why… [ at least to align with your 2003, idea]. However, that will never be known of.

            But I had to go and find an old conversation that always bugged me about another time sequence. It is cut and paste as follow;
            Cynthia: {in part} CC – 07-25-2016, 06:25 PM
            ***And Becky, along these same lines to what I think you’re getting at (trying to narrow down the search area to NM), why don’t you ask readers their ideas about him constantly changing the time frame of when Peggy his wife knows/ or doesn’t know when he hid the chest. I have heard him say she doesn’t know within 18 months of when he hid it, as well as 6 weeks of when he hid it. I heard Peggy say to me in person (with one other searcher there) that she knows within 2 weeks of when he hid it. Does this help you, or will it drive you crazy? It hasn’t helped me one iota. If you can’t find the correct WWWH, none of this matters. I’m the perfect example.**

            LOL I like the part; “Does this help you, or will it drive you crazy?”

            So here’s the question; Does knowing when anything was hidden, be it 2003 or 2009 or 10 help in anyway?
            By both of those dates the “idea” had been running through fenn’s mind and planning years earlier… as soon as 1988 or 89.
            IMO, there are too many variables for many changes, not only for the poem, but what is actually left on site… as you say; “hid some or a one specific item of the treasure contents first in 2002/2003.”

            Heck; IF fenn discovered this location in is younger years and simply left a marble… would it make any difference? What I do get out all the comments and even second hand comments about when the chest was placed, or any possible other items, is that; fenn will probably never narrow it down other than; At age eighty… it was time to act.

            Knowing he had “gone” there before is in the poem. And there is no way to track that/those event[s] of a possible 55ish year span.

          • Seeker,

            It seems to me that if the date of hiding were known then any paper trail regarding FF’s travels may be of use to pinpointing a location. Even the purchasing of gas would give us something. Also, we would know a bit more about what he was doing when he hid the chest.

            As it goes, timing is everything!

            Side Note:

            Dal, I think you should open up another page for questions FF should asked, such as “In which of the 50 United States were you in when you hid the chest?

            I originally just had “state” in that question but he could have replied Euphoria!


          • Hello Seeker. Well yes, as I had said that the 2002/2003 and 2009/2010 deduction synopsis likely will not help find the chest on its own, but it has value as a puzzle piece within the whole . So what’s the point and purpose to even bother with looking into this? It’s the knowing of the separation of the attributes within the poem and proper deductions of his ATF’s. Like I said also-it may help in understanding the first stanza- as a part of the puzzle. Some have intimated that the first stanza could be a preamble to the first clue WWWsH. Is this thinking helpful or a self hoodwink? Henceforth then, it is not a waste of synapse protein consumption to look into it; transitioning from a black and white perspective ,to looking at it from a bit of grey analysis. There’s more spices in his rack than salt and pepper. Cloves are a major ingredient for a parasite cleanse.

            Here’s a quote you know:

            “To answer some questions and save others from being asked, I did follow the clues in the poem when I hid the treasure chest, although I hid it before the poem was complete. (Completed?) f   (posted 6/5/2107) MW.

            Why would he decide to hide the chest before the poem was completed? My knee jerk thought is because of some kind of urgency. Why the urgency? Or it wasn’t an urgency per se, but what if he is referring here in the above quote to 2002/2003? Look at the publishing timeline Dal outlined as a potential.

            So, here we have that he hid it before he completed the poem. We are left with no conclusive producing evidence as to exactly the reasoning for these variances . He said around 2009/2010. But we also have the 15 years from 1988=2002/2003. So what? What does it matter? It matters if I desire to understand the story in the poem and the location. But It won’t help with the clues, sooo?

            As I have gone alone in there
            And with “”””my treasures bold,””””
            “”””I can keep my secret where,
            And hint of riches new and old.”””””

            It’s because of the first stanza. As soon as he writes and publishes the poem, his secret where of the chest is no longer a “keep my secret where”. There’s another secret and it’s probably included in his auto biography- likely not included in the other autobiographies he’s buried. It’s still a secret where because it’s not about his secret where of the treasure chest he is referring to in the poems first stanza- it’s his secret something. It’s whereabouts is still a secret where. One finder as one of the two ( finder and Forrest) can keep a secret. He has recently nodded to this again as ( paraphrasing ) “Significant to the story” and that is for the one who finds it as he said on Hint Of Riches YouTube interview :


            The variance in the 2002/2003-2009/2010 likely is related to:

            The Poems Story.
            The Double Omegas,
            The first stanza meaning.
            Why he chose the hide location for the chest.

            So stare at the poem, read his books and figure out the clues. But without an inclination of the story he’s talking about , such as in the interview; gaining confidence in ones deciphering of the clues for and to a location will be fleeting. IMO. Confidence is very important before BOTG . How does one truly get confidence in all this? By connecting dots about everything without the ego’s parasitical confirmation bias toxicity.

            IMO .

          • I think you have your timeline confused. Where does 2002-2003 even come into the conversation? He didn’t even get the idea until September of 1992. Even if takin from here, the 15 years would be 2007. Are you implying that 10 years after the idea, he went and buried something, somewhere for some reason?
            If it took 15 years from the time he got cancer, (“got meaning when he beat cancer” not diagnosed), and seeing that everything was done in 2009-2010, then he got/beat cancer in 1994.
            Plus, his “secret plan” is all about burying bells. (pg.137, TToTC). So, you could be right on if there is something else, (his secret being a bell, and burying it) That bell saying:
            “If you should ever think of me, a thousand years from now, please ring my bell so I will know”.
            Then pg. 138, saying:
            “Hopefully no one will happen upon a bell for many years- around 1000 would be perfect”.
            Which would add up to the year 3009, (2009 plus 1000 years. which is perfect) which he used in an ATF, (the year 3009), Then it seems that if there was any hiding/burying of anything, it was done in 2009.
            Of course, on pg. 129, he also says:
            “So I decided to fill a chest with gold and jewels, then “secret it””. Does this give a hint that the chest is actually buried, since his “secret” plan is burying 3′ deep.
            If his “secret” is burying a bell, (plan), and he is saying he could put his “secret” where, (bury his bell where), in the poem, and that he also will “secret” the chest, then it does sound like the chest is buried.
            But not in 2002-2003, makes no sense for that date.
            He said he worked on it for 15 years, but didn’t get the idea until 1992, when his fate hit bottom. (pg. 128 of TTotc= 20% chance of living 3 years), pg. 129;
            “Then one night, after the probability of my fate had finally hit bottom, I got an idea”.
            1988, January = diagnosed
            1988, December= surgery, given 20% chance of 3 years.
            = 100%=0, 80%=9months, 60%= 18 months, 40%= 27 months, 20%= 36 months, 0% = 45 months.
            45 months (fate hit bottom) from 1988 December = 1992, September.
            1992, September= got idea. Fill a chest and secret it.
            1994= “got/beat” cancer, worked on idea for 15 years.
            2009= 15 years, pg. 131 TToTC, “And like Eric Sloane, at age eighty, I figured it was time to act. So I wrote a poem………..
            Take the rest from there. If this helps in figuring how f thinks, at least for you, the timeline needs to reflect that.
            With all the ATF’s, we can almost pinpoint when he did all the stuff that he needed to do. I just don’t see it helping find the chest. Maybe just knowing that there is a possibility that he buried a bell also, and maybe, if we take what he says under a microscope, figure that with his wording, the chest is probably buried, 3′ deep, just like a bell.
            Bummer, I thought all this time that it would be hidden in a “seek-no-further” tree. I personally think that it’s not buried, or why wouldn’t he have said all these years to take a shovel?

          • Alsetenash ~ “Significant to the story” and that is for the one who finds it …

            Ok, as best as I can tell the “significant” won’t be known until the chest is found. So I’m having a hard time thinking how that can align with stanza 1 with any certainty to help [ with the first clues or anything else ] It reminds me of a Q&A about; anything in the chest that will help with location…
            But what caught my attention when I first listen to this interview is; It seems there’s a way to know the chest is found even after fenn is no longer around. IF I’m hearing this correctly… this would make sense to me about the idea of; “what took me so long” Another-words, something about the location should be that light switch moment to the “important possibility”
            But how does this or anything seemingly will let the cat out of the bag when the discovery is made?

            Now I’m full circle to the idea of; the book will help with the clues, to mean, it help the read to know of an area to look at to find the clues… not decipher them… just to figure out where one must be at to start looking for them… be it on GE or BOTG. The question is now, does one of the stories ave a mystery to solve? I can think of one that will pop in everyone’s mind. However, there are more than few mysteries in the book.
            Missing ball of string
            Olga’s resting point
            Old school house
            Promise to keep
            and on and on
            The whole book is chuck full of little mysteries that could be significant.

            So, I’ll bite… how can the year 2003 align with a story [ assuming from the book because that is all we truly have to work with ]?
            I mean… the only reason 2003 was ever mentioned, was by searchers trying to understand a time span from the when the idea popped in fenn’s head [ approx. 1988ish ] and 15 year of drafting the poem comment, right? That date is something WE [searchers] created… not so much fenn.

            No offense… but unless I’m missing something [ that would be of such a significance ]… 2003 doesn’t mean much because it’s simply chatter from blogs that created it.
            What if fenn came out and said; I started the poem in 89 or 90 or a bit later… would that have a major impact on the year 2003-?- as you see it?

            Don’t get me wrong, I like the idea you are approaching about a significance to the story and/or the “important possibility” … because it might help getting back to that subject that is not talked about much, anymore.

          • Seeker. We searchers didn’t create the date 2002/2003. Fenn did so by what he had said – 1988 and 15 years. We just did counting math . How then would this help in any way. It’s what he said , it is in what he said and the fact that he said 15 years from 1988 that gives it importance. It’s importance is to think…think….think.. it had purpose , the timeline, it had purpose for him to mention that time line spread. Is figuring this out going to directly help with the clues and lead to the chest? Gosh me , Seeker. Lol. There’s other colours besides black and white. If there is a purpose to behold without any certainty of knowing, it is the Gray aspect. The mystery, the intrigue about it. It’s connected to about the’ important possibility’ . It’s intrigue about the important possibility- the mystery. That was his purpose in that disclosure piece of 1988+15 years- to trigger thoughts of intrigue from that true by him timeline.

            Ya don’t need to find the chest and know what he means by significant to the story , in order for this mystery date spread to be of value . There’s also value in it in the now before hand. Because that’s the point for why he said it. Yes, it creates a mystery- that’s the point. That’s the get out of the box , out of the straight line logic trigger mechanism and into the imagination of possibilities. Sure, the clues are what they are, simple words and geography married to a map- that’s in the box so-to-speak. But the mystery aspect is the outside the box imagination pushy trigger. This is the significance!!!

            So, the first stanza is how this , in part, helps with – the story aspect. Treasures bold and keep his secret where. He wrote the poem that is a map to the chest. Therefore , that is not his secret where he is talking about in the poem.

            So, what’s the important possibility related to the winning solve? There’s a secret where that is not lead to by the clues in the poem. It’s in the story, the story we won’t know until it’s found. Unless you can figure it out by his ATF’s . But hey, people still think the “but only a “few” are in tight focus with a word that is key” ; that ‘few’ is referring to searchers. But no, it’s few as in ‘Clues’ . What did he say about ” rut” in his recent 4 questions . More than a few are stuck.

            IMO .

          • Alset-
            Why do you assume that he started writing the poem in 1988?
            The first poem that he completed was intended to be part of the cache that he took with him when he planned to end his life before cancer could get to him. That poem was completed sometime around 1988 but was never used because Forrest did not go through with his original plans when the cancer went into remission. We have no idea when he started the second poem but a better guess would be that he started writing the second poem about 15 years before 2009 or 2010 when he hid the chest.

            He said he wrote the poem after he hid the chest. He said he hid the chest in 2009 or 2010. The poem was in the book that was published in the fall of 2010 and appeared on his website at the same time.
            Logically, if the poem wasn’t completed until 2010 and it took him 15 years, on and off, to write it…then the poem was started about 15 years before 2010…That would be about 1995…

            But I agree with you that I don’t see how any of this will help you find the chest…

            But I do think your interpretation of the facts that Forrest gave us is a bit peculiar.

          • Concerning the Colophon Double Omega. I wonder if someone here has all FF’s authored books. I think he now has about 13 books. But I mainly am interested in the ones he has mentioned over the years , such as:

            Best of the drum and whoop of the dance
            Secrets of San Lazaro
            Once upon A While
            Once upon A While revised
            Teepee Smoke
            Etc .

            And whatever other ones I haven’t listed that he’s mentioned that he’s authored . I understand by searcher comments that he used the Colophon of Double and single Omega. I’m curious as to which ones have the Double Omega Colophon and which ones have the Single Omega Colophon. There is a point to these ,I believe , in my point above to Seeker. If someone would be so kind as to list which ones have the Double and single Omega

            Thanks in advance.


          • I have to emphasis again…
            IF I’m correct, your are using the 2003 has a hiding of something. We have never been told when the poem was started or finished [ we made that time line with no true time to go by ].

            However, I do see what you’re saying about a time line to the idea [the story].
            So allow me to work a time line;
            ~Diagnosed in 88.
            ~Two [ish] years for a remission to be clinically considered.
            ~During which time family voiced their minds.
            ~In pops “indecision is key to flexibility.”
            ~More two decades later, a book and poem kicks starts a challenge to the public.
            ~During which time, badgering questions reveal the poem took 15 years to created. [ first comment about 2013ish?]
            ~Then we have as of more recent; that he thought the earlier version[s] was too easy and the chest found quickly. Isn’t that early version about him doing the original plan-?-within the first couple/few years 1988-plus? [ no real date to put a thumbtack on ].

            So, what is it about “2003” that matters IF he didn’t recover?
            Do you see why I’m a bit baffled at the date?
            I mean, in your idea of something else being hidden… why not 2000 or 2005? and does the year matter?
            That’s what I’m not grasping.

            Look at what we had from the start;
            ~1988 – illness
            and “take it within” was born.
            ~at age almost eighty… so I wrote a poem.
            I don’t recall the book revealing a 15 year time line about anything… then again, I haven’t *red* the book in many years.
            From the above; it almost can be considered the poem was written just before the book came out… about age 80, right?

            I like ATFs but I can never hang my hat on just one or two… I also have to keep in mind what we had to work with from the start… I just don’t get why 2003 has any significance to the story … *has value as a puzzle piece within the whole*

            LOL and you should know I have look at the poem, its pieces, in that manner… MY Q&A about the contents of the chest and the location {The SHE answer}… So I am curious about the *idea* of an additional item[s] *not in the chest* perspective.
            I’m just not seeing the importance of 2002/2003.

            I guess one of my biggest glib is, you would have to think the poem was not finished before the physical act of hiding the chest for this idea to work at all. Ok we do have the comment about “complete (completed?)” as you posted above. But for me that’s a leap to the idea; finishing the written word {poem two decades after the fact – {which doesn’t fall in your 15 year time line idea} vs. acting out the plan {hiding the trove for the “challenge”}.

          • Hey Dal ,
            Quote from FF:

            “So it was 15 years from the time that I got cancer until the time that I hid the treasure chest. 15 years. And… The poem in my book, is something that I changed over and over again. When you read the poem, it looks like just simple words there. But I guarantee you I worked on that thing… I felt like an architect drawing that poem. And the original version of that poem said, “Take the treasure chest, but leave my bones and go in peace.” Or, something like that. But then I got well, and it ruined that story.” FF


            “To answer some questions and save others from being asked, I did follow the clues in the poem when I hid the treasure chest, although I hid it before the poem was complete. (Completed?) f   (posted 6/5/2107) MW.

            Dal, you said – “The first poem that he completed was intended to be part of the cash that he took with him when he planned to end his life before cancer could get to him.



            “We have no idea when he started the second poem but a better guess would be that he started writing the second poem about 15 years before 2009 or 2010 when he hid the chest.”

            I didn’t know he wrote two different poems and annexed the first one? I though he just changed the original line – “Take the treasure chest, but leave my bones and go in peace. Or, something like that.” FF

            Am I misunderstanding something here? I certainly didn’t know he wrote two different poems- just changed some words.

            IMO .

          • Alset-
            We have no idea what the first poem was like except he once told a reporter the last two lines of the original poem…
            Also, we don’t have any idea how he planned to use that first poem…was it to guide folks to the chest and the treasure inside? If so, how would people know the poem existed? The book was not out…he didn’t have a website in 1988…
            If the first poem was also a set of directions to find the chest and his bones then he should have had a plan to release it somehow…But I’ve never heard of such a plan.
            My point is that the first poem could have been like the second with only the last lines changed or it could have been completely different. I don’t think Forrest has ever said. He has said that the last stanza was changed…but we don’t know about the rest of the poem.
            If he didn’t have a plan to release the poem after his death then maybe the poem was meant to be found with his cache and not lead someone to it. Maybe the original poem told the finder who Forrest was and then gave the finder permission to take the chest but leave the bones alone.
            I don’t know any of this, these are only possibilities…and it really doesn’t matter to the process of finding the chest. I just think it’s faulty logic to state as fact an opinion.

          • Seeker:

            FF Quote:

            “So it was 15 years from the time that I got cancer until the time that I hid the treasure chest. 15 years. And… The poem in my book, is something that I changed over and over again. When you read the poem, it looks like just simple words there. But I guarantee you I worked on that thing… I felt like an architect drawing that poem. And the original version of that poem said, “Take the treasure chest, but leave my bones and go in peace.” Or, something like that. But then I got well, and it ruined that story.” FF

            Plus he said he hid the chest before he completed the poem. He said he hid the chest sometime between 2009/2010. I’m going by what he said.

            As Dal said to me a moment ago:

            “But I do think your interpretation of the facts that Forrest gave us is a bit peculiar.” Dal.

            Well, do you not find what he said in my posted quotes by FF , rather peculiar? There’s when he hid the chest- two stated timelines and the when he completed the poem – after he hid the chest.

            This all is Peculiar-less even my opinion, but what FF has said.

            IMO .

          • Seeker. My point of focus about the 2002/2003 is relative to the story- his story about why he hid the chest.

            There’s two reasons- one was the hide in 2002/2003 and the reason for the hide in 2009/2010. There is two and for two different reasons. This is my interpretation of what these two references he is talking about as he has stated of the two different times. This has been talked about before and then probably overlooked. This is not going to help with the clues that lead you to the chest. Though, it is about the first stanza, in my opinion. Correctly understanding the first stanza is important, don’t ya think? Plus other stanzas are, in my opinion, subtly linked to this applicable understanding of the first stanza.

            “What are we missing” is often said by you, Seeker.

            Two trips from his car( once said vehicle)
            Two trips in his car( people magazine , though could be a miss quote)
            Double Omega
            Two hide dates.

            IMO .

          • Dal,

            I meant that you should open up a second page for the questions. I had come across the earlier one but it seemed in preparation for an interview, I think now it would be helpful for searchers to share what questions they have to get others to think about things they may not have previously considered.


          • Alsetenash ~ *Plus he said he hid the chest before he completed the poem. He said he hid the chest sometime between 2009/2010. I’m going by what he said.*

            Umm err maybe? I don’t think he said; *before HE completed the poem* – that does sound like writing it out. BUT what was said was; “… I did follow the clues in the poem when I hid the treasure chest, although I hid it before the poem was complete. (Completed?) f ”

            You conclude ~ *Well, do you not find what he said in my posted quotes by FF , rather peculiar? There’s when he hid the chest- two stated timelines and the when he completed the poem – after he hid the chest.*

            I don’t see him completing the poem in the written manner of finishing it…
            He hid the chest before the *poem* was complete* In this case, for the poem to be completed, don’t all the factors in the poem have to be satisfied?
            One being, taking the trove to the hide. The other part, which most don’t like, is the ‘idea’ fenn ‘had’ to follow his own clues to complete the poem.

            This comment was one of the most sought after question since day one. Did fenn follow his own clues? right?

            So when I look at that particular comment [ATF] I have to include what he was doing at the time that relates to why the poem was *not* “complete” vs. not finished writing it.

            I like the way you present your arguments, we just happen to see the same info differently. But it would be a hoot if something else was left that wasn’t directly connected to the chest… lol… who knows, it could be the blaze, line of thinking. I mean, could your time line be about why there is a blaze to be found? and planted early on in the early 2000’s?
            But I’m sure you have something else in mind. I was just curious to why 2003 and not any year from 1988 – 2009.

          • Seeker. I sure do like a good challenge , thanks to you for that. So, lets now look at what you are pointing at with your points. There’s when he hid the chest-two given timelines. There is changing and completing the poem lines. There are the clues he counted (9) after the finished the poem . He followed the clues that are in the poem to hide the chest Though he hid the chest before he completed the poem.

            Ok. So, my point is in what he said there. He followed the clues when he hid the chest but he completed the poem after he hid the chest. It wasn’t the clues he needed to finish after he hid it. It was the story in the poem he had to complete. In other words, he had to complete the story before he could complete the poem!!! He had to hide it first to complete it…make sense now? It wasn’t the ” leave my bones” he still needed to change. It was the the story he had to complete. All things being contiguous…right?

            Again, so how does this help? It helps to understand stanzas 1,5 and 6. The ones he didn’t need to follow to hide the chest. That’s why this focus topic won’t help you find the chest. But this is significant to the story. It’ll help understand the poem though-the hint in the last line of the first stanza.

            IMO .

          • Hello Seeker. Your comment on 1/12/20 at 1:13 p.m. in regards to Mr. Fenn’s quote about the hiding the treasure and the timing of the poem has been something I’ve wondered about since it was posted the first time. Most believe he hid it before the poem was finished. I had wondered at a time if he could have meant he hid the treasure chest before the end of the poem. Let’s say the treasure chest was hidden at “Just take the chest and go in peace,” hence, it was hidden before the poem was complete. I’m not sure if I made my thoughts clear, but hope you’ll understand. Could it be possible he meant it this way?

          • Dang, That has to be the longest ladder yet. I hope Randawg doesn’t mind were using his reply box.

            OK Now we’re talking… two different purposes yet both having a connection, imo.
            If correct… not only does “hint of riches new and old” factor in, but “have [had] gone alone” and “must go” also factor in.
            Are we thinking along the same wave length?

          • PD,
            It could, sure.

            But what seems to be overlooked, this ATF comment was just that… a comment.
            This wasn’t a Q&A section, per sa. It was seemingly unprovoked when it came out.
            There’s a message here, imo.
            Why or what is yet to be determined, but I truly think fenn made this comment for a reason he felt necessary to do, and maybe at the time he decided to say anything about; following the clues. and/or the poem’s completion.

            I mean, the comment started [paraphrasing] to answer some question and keep others from being asked… or something like that [ the quote link is posted by Alsetenash ] What possessed him to say anything in the first place-?- after years of being asked and not answering.

            Like I have said before; this was one of the most sought after questions; Did fenn follow his clues or take a short cut?… since day one.

            Regardless of how I see it, you see it, or teslA sees it… IMO, it is a very important comment to consider. I personally can’t think it is something as simple as; *…he hid the treasure chest before the end of the poem.*
            For the reasoning I mention above.

            Just for clarification… you’re saying within the poem, being stanza 4 [chest is hidden away], still leaving two stanzas, right?.. before the poem written words end.

          • Alsetenash on January 12, 2020 at 2:34 pm said:
            Seeker. Yes, they are part of the story. IMO .

            Why didn’t you say that in the first place… my mouse it burning up from scrolling that ladder. lol… it’s always a fun challenge reading and chatting about your idea teslA. Ya keep me on my toes, bud.

          • Hello Seeker. That is correct. Did Mr. Fenn say there was only one way to the treasure chest that he was aware of? Am I mistaken?

          • Seeker. Lol . I did say it. Stanzas 1,5 and 6 are related- in story. The first stanza is about the 2002/2003 part of the story- the for the solver/finder thing and purpose. The stanzas 5 and 6 are the rest and completed part- aka , after the second final hide.-second contents-the listed contents.Two stories , two hides intertwined. Important possibility. IMO .

            I’ve enjoyed this conversation.

          • Contradictions and conspiracies, huh? I did not insinuate a conspiracy at play. It’s a matter of research and tying things together. There’s a story in the poem, there’s 9 clues in the poem. Actually, I see two stories in the poem. There’s a weave woven from a missing ball of string. When FF speaks and it appears there are contradictions , I’ll repeat what I said earlier. There looks to be two different hides, two different sets of treasures bold/troves he hid and they are connected. Two Omegas. There is potentially two different stories being told and he potentially toggles between them in his ATF’s speaks. It is in that toggle between the two at any given moment that he may be speaking to. Hense, the appearance in there being a contradiction in his speak.

            Maybe he meant to say this or that? I say no, he means what he says. Why is it ,in one hand , to say to only take FFs words of advice and quote him precisely. Then ,in the other hand, to say maybe meant to say this or that? Or made a speak mistake? The only searcher 101 handbook I see is searchers whom are 0 and 101. I listen to FF and myself. FF has proven himself enough and I have proven myself to myself in successive investigations enough to listen to myself. There’s no conspiracy- there’s a mystery!!!

            Personally, I have my complete understanding of the poem and clues. It’s just about searching for me. So, I usually don’t engage about the clues. I am not distracted in this. It’s called doing a complete investigation. I need to figure out and know the story, I need to know FF’s history and character analysis. I need to know and understand the clues. I need to have it all thoroughly investigated and a complete synopsis in order to have pieced them all together.

            I don’t tell folks what to think, how to think, or do this do that. Just what I think. I’m not distracted, nor a conspiracy buff.

            It looks to me like there is two stories in 3 stanzas. That’s 1.5 each divided between the two. That’s 6 lines each and it’s all contiguous. There’s no contradictions, they are deliberate and it’s all a toggle.

            There’s no conspiracy, there’s a mystery;

            “…..there is one thing in the chest that I have not talked about except to say I don’t want to talk about it. It is something saved especially for the person who solves the clues. I think that person will be pleased when she sees it. f”

            This is my opinion.

          • teslA,
            While ya bark at the contradictor’s and conspiracies enthusiast… can ya clear one more thing up for me?
            I like the way you’re looking at this but what do you mean by: two hides?
            Just simply two different times to the same place? [ which is what I assumed prior ] or two different hidey places. lol, then again while I’m brewing it all over in my head, it might be both.
            But anyways, is there only one hidey spot-?- for two different reasons, for your reasoning/theory of two stories being told of?

          • Seeker. Yes, I believe there is/was two events of the hide. One is the known listed contents hide 2009/2010 and there looks to be another in 2002/2003. This is what I get by his Intel provided. In the kpro/cow video , FF also mentioned “mystery” about this chase. There is a mystery he is implying and I don’t think it’s about the where’s the location of chest mystery. It’s significant to the story , that one thing that is saved especially for the solver/finder.

            So, yes, two hides. It’s not possible at the moment to know if the item is in the chest or there’s the where it is , is given in the chest. Was it the first or second hide? I don’t know. But there’s two hide events , one with or about the special item, in my opinion.

            15 years from 1988 is 2002/2003. From 1988 to 2009/2010 is a spread of 22 years.

            In my opinion.

          • Seeker. I believe Preston said 2009 he last saw it in the safe and or it was Fenn’s nephew saw it on kitchen table 2009. But that doesn’t have much in my factor. For, he did hide that in 2009/2010. You don’t like the 2002/2003, that’s all right ,man.

            Depends , I guess, on when after 1988 . There’s nothing precise here to work with, other then an estimated spread:

            “Over the months and years, after 1988, I started filling the treasure chest up with precious things. “FF

            75 years of collecting things……? When did he start collecting things? He found his first arrowhead at 19. I doubt he meant since birth lol.

            Sure, 2005/2006 could be too. No point in being rigid of a couple years. Its by what he said of 15 years from 1988 when he was diagnosed.

            Fenn said what he said lol.

            My effort will be worth this cold..The future will ultimately prove the past, I guess.

            IMO .

          • Al, you are still taking the 1988 date as where to start the 15 years from. Like I posted, he didn’t even get the idea until the probability of his fate hit bottom. And that was in September of 1992. So you have to at least start from there. It’s in the book , pages I posted.
            The problem way back when, when the blogs were trying to figure out why the timeline didn’t match up, was because of the ATF you posted. 15 years from when he got cancer. Diagnosed in January of 1988, so roughly 2002-2003, or just 2003.
            The problem is how searchers interpreted “got”. He may have acquired cancer before his diagnosis, which is where some interpret “got” meaning, but “got” can also mean when he was in control of it, or beat it. Like the statement, “I got this”.
            So, maybe it IS something else that he hid. But to use the times given in ATF’s, it sounds like you are saying the chest or the contents. Which I believe was seen in 2009 or so by some of f’s friends. It just cannot be that he hid in 2002-2003.
            Now, I also believe there is something that a searcher will find other then the chest and it’s contents. But I have no idea when that thing was hidden only because it is never mentioned. I assume when he hid the chest.
            2002-2003 was only used because some searchers took for granted the 15 years from f’s diagnosis. Which would be wrong anyway if they used the definition of “got” meaning when he acquired cancer. If a diagnosis came in January, I would thing that he then “got” cancer far earlier. You just cannot go by that definition.
            If you see it as a way to get to know how f talks, or how you understand him, (because the timeline really doesn’t matter), there are holes in your interpretation.
            That doesn’t mean you don’t understand the guy, you’ve been here a long time, it just means that you may have interpreted this little puzzle part of the chase incorrectly.

          • @Poisonivey.

            Starting with quotes:

            0:54) “Fenn: No. It started in 1988 when I had what everybody thought was terminal cancer.”f

            “Well, uh, in 1988 I had cancer and they told me I was going to die.”f

            “In 1988, I was diagnosed with what they call terminal cancer. I had a big tumor in my body, and that’s when I got the idea to hide the treasure chest”f

            So now it’s about the interpretation of “got”. You say when you got something it means when you’ve become aware of when you have something. Is there a quote available that says he said the doctors figured his illness started around such and such time due any lab tests ? No!

            Your Got has got nothing to back it up beyond a presumption. Assume assume away. I go with the quotes we got.

            This is about the storyline and another treasure the makes up the treasures bold and trove and it’s of GOLD!!! It’s the mystery puzzle piece , in my opinion. I’m not questioning the 2009/2010 hide.

            Here’s another way to hopefully help me clarify me to you:

            The natural rule of writing, it is taught , is that the end should give a nod to the beginning. I write much the same. My last paragraph usually nods in closing to my opening paragraph. The last one in the poem is ” I give you title to the gold” . In the first stanza , I’ll highlight- ” treasures bold”, ” secret where” , and finally the last line- ” and hint of riches new and old”. What is it that has monetary and prestigious value since modern and historical times. From Pharaoh’s, to kings to now? Gold! That’s riches new and old . And we have treasures bold and secret where. There is more than just gold in the chest. So, why only ” title to the gold “? Because that’s the hint in the first stanza- the hint of riches new and old. The nod back to the first stanza is “title to the gold”. I don’t think I can make this any more clear.

            There’s another treasure as part of the trove. It’s hidden also and could be with the chest. Its the one that has to do with the 15 years after 1988; that is saved especially for the solver of the clues. It’s the mystery item made of gold . It has a story , FF has a story tied to it.

            Ya won’t know what it is or where it is until you find the chest he hid in 2009/2010.

            The clues, the story. Are likened to knowledge and wisdom. They go hand in hand. Not having both hands in a handshake is a bias problem, forevermore.


            IMO .

  71. Gonna go out on a limb here…..

    Forrest says on January 6:
    “My vision tells me that it is only a matter of time until someone finds the treasure.”

    IF Forrest was a religious man and believed in “everlasting life,” could this statement have a much greater meaning than what we have been assuming it to mean? Given his age and Peggy’s age and health, perhaps he is thinking that this is the year “someone” will be rewarded.

    This of course is IMHO and just thrown out as “food for serious thought.”

    • Maybe “spiritual” would be a better word to use than “religious.”
      Either way, I hope y’all get what I am saying.

    • @wwwamericana, It would be interesting to know the answer to your question, which I only ff can answer. I don’t recall an answer to your timing question the past years.

      I think your thoughts on spirituality and everlasting life hold merit.

    • wwwamericana,

      As usual, I’m clueless. 4 days later, way behind again.

      But if that was said, then his vision must be getting better! Because the last time we seen Forrest, he was nearly blind. He could barely see his computer screen! Needed some sort of slingshot-contraption. Terrible vision….but NOW he can see? Where’s Paul when I need him…
      IMO Only,
      I got nuttin…


      • ByGeorge- I belive f meant vision as in his minds eye, cystal ball type vision. not his actual ability of sight. Jay

        • Jason,
          I totally agree with you. But I would take it a step further, and say “his vision” could be referring to something he has already seen on his computer screen.

          I think someone has sent pictures to Forrest, and that’s what prompted the statement in one of his final scrapbooks… “my picture has been painted…” (paraphrasing) and it’s the countertop waiting to dry

          I think it’s almost all over but the crying.

          And I’m going go out on a limb… and sit.

          BIP n Forrest, sitting in a tree, R-E-S-T-I-N-G…

          The view is 2DEYE4…IMO


          • By George someone speaks wise. I believe you have hit the hammer on the head. Your more right than you know. Of course this is my opinion. I saw a post in which be said people know the treasure is there ” he sat down and wrote that poem in 15 minutes” it took me 15 years. What’s your theory on that statement? I’m curious to know what you think if you have seen that post

          • wwwamericana,

            IMO Only…

            I can only speak of my botg efforts..

            I have seen Bip and Forrest, together, resting, with not a care in the world. The only thing missing is a piece of straw sticking out of his teeth! Looks like the image in one of the SB’s….leg bent at a 45 degree angle, sleeping. Don’t get me wrong…BIP is wide awake, but Forrest, not so much.

            I can’t explain it, but I still have work to do.


          • BG – dang no reply button to hit.
            Who’s sucking on that straw? BIP or Forrest?
            I see a bit of Juniper in your words but all I can think of is that song….. “When the moon is in the seventh house, and Jupiter aligns with Mars, then peace will guide the planets, and love will steer the stars.”
            Aren’t we in the Age of Aquarius.

            And I don’t believe for one minute Forrest is asleep, he just has his eyes closed.

            You sure got a lot of xplaning to do BG!

          • rian,
            I’ll try again…lost my post somewhere.

            I haven’t crossed that bridge yet. But Alsetenash is discussing that topic just above …pay attention to these guys. They’re good. I would good money to just watch Alsetenash eat crackers!

            But for me, I would look the 15 comment in a different way…
            IMO Only…

            Brian, you’re on the right path. I throw out randomness as posts cuz it’s in one ear and out the other.

            I can see you’re vested in this Chase. You’re going to do just fine.

            Also, the other word that could have been capitalized is G-old. It has a nice ring to it…like a bell…a doorbell.

            Talk about cold, my parrot lowered the cover on his own cage!


          • I read sbs almost everyday except when I’m sick or sick and tired lol. It’s like the newspaper. Sbs and coffee.

          • By George,

            Sorry about the Parrot… sometimes they just feel the need to express their freedom!

            …no matter what the cost!

      • BG – You’re sure taking the wind out of my sails.
        Wonder if Forrest was having trouble with double vision.
        Almost blind and now he can see – amazing!
        Hope you find Paul.

  72. Greetings Everyone,

    I too have fallen behind. So much is posted here every day and there isn’t enough time in the day to keep up.

    I was just wondering, after watching part of a link posted by Lori, whether in referring to himself as an architect in terms of the poem, FF didn’t feel like there was some foundation, which would most certainly be the most important part (word perhaps) in any structure. With that posited, usually you build things from the ground up or bottom up. Take it for what you will.


    • Here’s a question for Forrest. Has anyone to your knowledge Forrest solved the poem to a point of being within 500 feet of that treasure and only needing to get boots on the ground and retrieve it?

  73. Everyone,

    Another perhaps random question: was FF ever in Scouting? OR more specifically the Order of the Arrow?


    • Ann-
      Wimachtendienk Wingolauchsik Witahemui….
      I asked Forrest if he was ever in Boy Scouts once and he said he wasn’t certain but he thinks not because uniforms cost money and his family didn’t have any extra money. So if he was in Scouts it was for a short time…probably not unlike his “college” experience. If his Scouting experience was that limited he would not have participated in Order of the Arrow.

      • Dal,

        Assuming you were/are in scouting I imagine you may know why I asked. There is something to be said about finding the blaze at the end of the journey. And it’s not wholly unrelated to the picture I wish to post or some ideals in Scouting and the OA.


        • Ann O’Nymous – I don’t know if this will help you any in your Boy Scouts angle, but that illustrator Enos B. Comstock that I mentioned in my Calypso solve also did a LOT of illustrating and writing work for Boys’ Life magazine, which is the official magazine for Boy Scouts.

          • Blex,

            Did you realize your Calypso solve is literally right next to the Philmont Boy Scout Ranch? I have been there before, many years ago now, not for anything related to FF or this treasure hunt. But I am familiar with scouting and the OA and some of the ideals. Interestingly enough, in looking over the area there are some locations relatable to the poem. Particularly to the blaze. I wonder if anyone would be interested in the Tooth of Time. Time seems to have been an important topic of interest in previous posts as well. I was actually taken to the geographical location in the Calypso solve prior to your posting of it for very different reasons. Perhaps there is something to that area.

            Also, have you looked at the image I posted below? Additionally intriguing, as is the area in terms of the rest of the poem.


          • Ann – I think you are mixing up states; my solve was in Colorado, but the Philmont Boy Scout Ranch and Tooth of Time are in New Mexico. I do know that there used to be a different Boy Scout Camp right by Wild Basin, but I don’t think it is still in operation.

            And yes, I took a look at your photo. Are you seeing an Indian Brave in profile looking to the right? That’s sort of what I see at first glance.

          • Blex,

            Apologies for the mistake in location. For some reason I had Eagle Nest Creak associated with your find. Now I am wondering where on this blog I read that!

            The image is crazy right? So I was following a potential “solve” based on the following:
            1. I answered the question FF poses in the poem.
            2. My answer in conjunction with a “key” word of sorts that I procured with the aid of a reply to one of my posts, lead me directly to a geographical location.
            3. This location is riddled with potential markers fitting of the poem.
            4. Following the poem led me to the image seen.
            5. And if one throws in line 21, a peculiar object comes into focus and piques ones interest.

            The image is clear! That was quite unexpected and curious. Here, is potentially the figure of a brave carved out in the middle of the woods. Was it always there? will it always be there? I don’t know. But the fact that it came at the end of everything else was perplexing.

            This is all IMO of course.


          • Blex,

            I was trying to retrace my steps regarding the mistaken location. I was reading somewhere in here (not sure where now) about Maverick Creek and Maverick Canyon and Eagle Nest Creek was the starting point. So whoever, had a “solve” there they were close to Philmont. I need to find that again……


          • Ann – I haven’t been the best about remembering things correctly today for some reason, but I believe that Cynthia had a solve that she posted including some of those places in New Mexico that you mentioned.

            I’ve also heard others mention the Tooth of Time on this page before. You might want to search the comments sections for some of the scrapbooks that have a dental theme to them. #115 & #117 might be good ones to start. There’s one about a sabre-toothed tiger skull floating around too. I just brought the scrapbook index up to date at present on the scrapbook page, so you can sift through in more detail and see what you can unearth.

            And your solve area with the Brave sounds interesting. But if the Brave is formed out of a lack of woods, then is being in the Brave truly being in the wood? I’m just rambling now.

          • Blex,

            Thanks for the tooth info. I’m not particularly interested in it myself, just thought others might be since there has been discussion regarding time and teeth. Philmont itself is a place that should be of interest. I am wondering if Chase in the title of the book doesn’t refer to the family owning a ranch connected to Philmont. And other clues could be pieced together there as well. Along with the ranch is a Chase Canyon…..I’ll leave it at that for now.

            In regards to the brave and wood remarks….

            The image I have shared has been cropped by me. The “brave” is completely surrounded by woods so if indeed one is the brave or in the area occupied by the brave then one would be “in the wood.” Like being in a clearing in the middle of the woods or a lake even.

            So far, and mind you I’ve only been at this for a few days now, nut so far everything I have thought off in brief without making more of the words or the poem than is possible, and without reading much else, points me to either of two places. Several times I have been redirected back to the area just West of Philmont (and even Philmont itself). The other place is where I found the image above, which is not far from a common sought out spot but which may have been overlooked by others.

            I think in the most simplistic of terms (and I am referring to the poem and not my own) the chest is in one of these two areas. So much so, that if I were to but BOTG I would start with either of these.

            All IMO of course.


          • PS-

            I would try and pinpoint a meaningful connection to FF prior to BOTG though as he seems pretty animate that the place of hiding is special to him.


          • PS!!!-

            I found the video I was referring to! I still had the link open in another window! I hope this is the right video.


            Otherwise I don’t recall which one FF mentioned something (either himself or the poem or I cant remember the exact words) always going back to the “Thrill of the Chase.” I hope it is in this video. If not, apologies in advance. I haven’t watched much so you’d think it’d be easier for me to pinpoint it! Perhaps I should be taking some notes!!!


        • Ann, are you in Wyoming? I mean your solve? There is a lake in the woods lake there just under Purple mountain in Yellowstone. (purple/yellow= Brown).
          That lake every year is flooded with Boy Scouts. I think it is called camp LOLL. Almost looks like “owl”. Anyway, just curious…

          • poisonivy,

            If you are referring to the image above and the potential “solve” I am associating with it then no, I am not in Wyoming. I mentioned a lake in the woods as an example of being in the woods but not immediately surrounded by trees. It was more illustrative than anything. I was responding to Blex who was concerned about a lack of woods. I was just reassuring him that the image posted is formed by the very existence of woods that actually create the image. Its as if the image had been carved out of the woods! so to speak. Whether because of the terrain or some other natural causes, it is an uncanny image to just happen across while following clues to an otherwise obscure poem. As a mathematician, I assure you it is an odd chance indeed.

            In terms of the scouting commentary:

            My inquiry into FF and scouting was prompted nit by the image above, but rather, by a previous searchers post about a BOTG trip that led me to an area previous methods of mine had led me to on two other occasions. Notably, this area is just west of the Philmont Boy Scout Ranch in NM. That area, the area west of Philmont is also riddled with potential markers matching the poem. I asked about FF’s possible connection to scouting because of Philmont and some of the ideals of scouting.

            IMO, if I were to put forth effort in the search and actual BOTG, I would put it into these two areas. But, yes there is a but, I would only do so if a connection could be drawn between FF and either one of the areas. What would either one be special to FF for?

            Interestingly enough, I was able to obtain further Google Earth information not from Google Earth but through the Philmont website. AS it turns out there is an 11 generation family with the last name of Chase whose family ranch sits next to Philmont. It is actually used by Philmont. That struck me as odd if only because of the title above the map and poem, and obviously the book. But it was something I saw FF say, in one of the videos posted here. He said something to the effect that he (or it?) always go back to the thrill of the chase. To find the clip I’d have to go back through my own posts here. The link was posted (by Lori maybe ?) and I replied to it after watching the first several minutes.

            Anyways, both Philmont and the land to the west are interesting in terms of the poem.


    • Ann O’Nymous – I know I and others have asked that question on this site before in the past. If I remember correctly, the general feedback I heard was basically “maybe, but no one knows for sure and Forrest hasn’t specifically mentioned it”.

    • ann- i thought the redneck with 13 kids and a pickup truck forrest talked about was a scout leader and 13 scouts. the red neck being the red colored neckerchief the scouts wear.
      but im probably wrong. the scouts dont have a treasure hunting merit badge i was told.

      • Bob,

        What a delightful idea!!!! That is indeed a real possibility. While there may not be a treasure hunting merit badge, they are known for orienteering, wilderness survival and the great outdoors! All joking aside, I do not have any direct connection between FF and scouting as of now. But that doesn’t mean there isn’t one. I have been led to areas just west of Philmont by more than one means of thinking, which has me begging the question, is there such a connection. And even Philmont itself is of interest. GE doesn’t show much for the area of Philmont seeing as how it is considered private property. But if you go on the Philmont website you can obtain the GE info for Philmont from there which fills in a lot of the gap. Perhaps, this is what FF meant about a girl from India only being able to go so far. Of course all is IMO and I would be interested to know whether FF had any connections to Philmont, or other prominent names affiliated with the place, or to any of the land west of Philmont. I realize west of Philmont is pretty vague so I will clarify that I mean no further than the Rio Grande and somewhere between 120 and 160.

        That said, there is more than one location of interest within that area. But if there is no connection to FF then I wouldn’t guess that’d be the area to look.



        • Before anyone jumps on Philmont as being “private property” I want to add some remarks.

          While Philmont is deemed “private” property by ownership, it is open to public use. Specifically, it is intended for use by the scouting program. However, that does not mean it is off limits. Interestingly enough, if FF is indeed not affiliated with the scouts then perhaps that is why he could not stay. IMO.


          • I think your definition of “private” property in the sense of Philmont is a tad unrealistic Ann. Philmont has been the object of many searchers, particularly early on in the chase. Many searchers were asked to leave the ranch when they were discovered searching there and others were never granted permission to search there when they asked. Even Scouts and Scout leaders cannot just drive through the gates and begin walking around. They have seasoned guides that go out with the Scout groups. Reservations have to be made and fees paid before anyone is allowed to use the backcountry there. Those reservations are made a year or two in advance due to the worldwide popularity of the ranch, the limited resources the ranch has and their desire to keep the place less trampled. I think a better way to think of it is, as a private ranch with controlled access…like a private golf club.

            There are a couple other ranches in the neighborhood that are also private that some folks have been led to. There is also Cimarron State Park and it’s interesting combination of landforms that have drawn the attention of clue chasers since the hunt was announced. Eagles Nest Lake, and the entire Enchanted Circle from Taos around to Taos again have been searched and researched by thousands because it fits many who think the chest should be hidden close to Santa Fe. I would venture to say that prior to 2015 that area was the number one search area. Today the areas more commonly searched are further north and west.

            If you look at the early solutions other searchers have written here on this blog and stories written by journalists about the hunt you will see that many take place around Philmont and a few even secreted themselves inside the ranch to hunt down a clue or two…

          • Dal,

            Thanks for the insights. I did not mean to suggest the chest is hidden anywhere specific to Philmont, although the area is certainly intriguing and I can see why others have been led there. I also appreciate your affluence with the operations of Philmont, something I am not completely unfamiliar with.

            That said, there are several places throughout the Rockies, even some public places, where permits are necessary. And certain activities in certain areas require certain permits as well. I don’t know that the private nature of Philmont can disqualify it outright. After all, I am working under the idea that the riddle in the poem is capped by the question FF poses there :

            “So why is it that I must go
            And leave my trove for all to seek?”

            My previous answer was simply: Because he could not stay.

            Put another way: Because he had to leave.

            Philmont and some parks close or are closed to those not permitted to stay. If this is what he meant by the question he posed then my definition makes a bit more sense. Admittedly, that is a big IF. But as I do not propose Philmont Ranch to be the locale I will leave it to others to draw their own conclusions.

            I would be more interested in the less private Chase Canyon next to Philmont. While Chase Ranch was only recently incorporated into Philmont’s use by the Chase family (2012-13), the entire Canyon certainly cannot deemed private as there is a major road that runs right through it. Route 204. It would not be so far fetched to imagine FF’s poem referring to this place and titling as did “The Thrill of the Chase.” But I would still seek out a “special” connection to FF even for this location. Still, you have to admit it’s quite ironic to find a location with the same name as the title of his poem.

            Maybe FF had dealings with the Chase family. Maybe his ties to scouting are stronger than he has let on. Maybe he had something to do with a local monument. I would not know where to begin to look for a special connection, or connection for why such a place would be special to FF. But what if. right?

            And I only wished to clarify the “private property” remarks about Philmont before someone outright said well according to FF it’s not on private property because…. I did not mean to say that it was. I don’t recall that private property was not part of the riddle or a clue etc. etc. Keep in mind Philmont is a rather large area that is not monitored to the inch 24/7. I am not suggesting others trespass, but I imagine it wouldn’t be hard to find oneself out there somewhere in just wandering around and not even realize it.

            I did read about one search that began at Eagles Nest, which was one of the routes that led me to the lands west of Philmont. I think I arrived west of Philmont 3 or 4 different ways only to realize I was in the same geographical vicinity, which happened to be west of Philmont. I have clarified what I mean by west elsewhere but I will do so again here. No further than the Rio Grande and between 160 and 120 (North and South). There are a few areas of interest there.

            I am inclined to note that if so many early searches were led to the area west of Philmont, couldn’t they have possibly been the ones FF thought were within so many feet of the chest? Here I am 10 years later and based solely on the poem, drawn to that general area for a number of reasons. Perhaps there is something to it.

            And as a side note: Have you ever been to Philmont Dal? If so what Trek did you do? And did you get t see the sunrise from the Tooth of Time? If you feel an email would be more appropriate you can certainly reply there.

            All is said IMO of course.


  74. About versions of the poem ….
    In the “mucky years” after the diagnosis, FF and Peggy must have discussed, as adults do, the pending “what if’s.” Options more appealing than another plot in row 4, block 23 would have been explored. And it rankled that some should be buried standing up. Plans were vague, but feelings were expressed, and more importantly, adjusted to and accepted … as adults do.

    I don’t believe FF would simply disappear and leave Peggy in a panic. Adults don’t do that.
    A poem would be his consolatory and final message to her… “Its done. Leave it alone.”
    She would have understood the code, and been at peace with his disappearance.
    That was then.

    As hope revived, it became a game. A Chase. A thrill.

    IMO, OS2.

    About Cancer…. I beat it once, lived with stage 4 for 12 years, it reappeared, and I beat it again. Would I deplete the family treasure for a panoply of tests? At 82, nope. Just leave my bones. I am at peace with that. But I hope no one will ever again have to ‘throw a raffle’ to buy medical care. “It’s NOT the Economy, Stupid!”

    • OS2 – great post. You definitely seem like Dragon slayer material to me. Speaking of nicely written, I was just perusing old searcher stories and ran across one posted under your prior handle I believe? I enjoyed it both times but I didnt connect it to you the first time. And I may be wrong about who the author is.. I’ve been there too and have been thinking of going back. Great story and I’m a little surprised you havent found the treasure yet.

      • Thanks Sally. My prior handle was “Old Shadows” ….. thus “OS2” for short. I searched once in N.M. w/ family and the experience is as deep and fresh as a wonderful memory can be. I can still feel the cold spray of rushing mountain river on my face…..and I found a depth to my lungs I never knew I had. I do not know the mountains, yet, I miss them. I do not search, yet, I seek. It’s vicious.

    • OS2,

      ~A poem would be his consolatory and final message to her… “Its done. Leave it alone.”… She would have understood the code, and been at peace with his disappearance.

      I see what you’re driving at, but personally it bugs me… not annoying. But unclear in thought, for lack of a better term.

      I think considerations should be taken that the family would know IF and WHEN the deed was set in action.
      Sure, it was more than likely talked about beforehand, the book mentioned the family [kids and Peggy] talking about the alternatives and fenn going for the operation, etc. But the idea of leaving a ‘code’ for Peggy, who would understand in the poem set up for the challenge to find his body [ first thought ] and a trove… by chance he just got up and left?

      Sorry, I don’t see Forrest doing that… *** here’s a book with a poem in it… You’ll know what I mean? just in-case I disappears without a final good bye, a hug, a day of reflection of past times together, a solo moment-with each other- before leaving to face death on his own terms….
      **It’s done, leave it alone** ???

      Dang… can you imagine the pressure of knowing he would have put her through; going to die from an illness, knowing his wishes with acceptance…. BUT never knowing ‘WHEN’ he would just leave without a word? I highly doubt the plans were that vague.
      My wife would kill me if I snuck out of the house without telling her.

  75. FF hid a the treasure -in the mountains north of santa fe , I don’t think he hiked up a mountain to hide it . Even if he just hid it at the bottom of the mountain , that would still be in the mountains north of Santa Fe

    • Hi Frank
      I think Forrest said the tc is almost to the top
      of the mountain but don’t quote me on that.
      Maybe Del or JDA can help.Clint

      • Clint – I think the quote was closer to along the lines of that it’s not on top of a mountain but it might be on the side of one. I think that was from the Richard Eeds interview.

          • Clint,
            I believe both could be correct as well.

            It was discussed in 2018 in here and if memory serves me correctly, McB was involved with that conversation.

            I wouldn’t put it past Forrest to do just that…make ya earn it.

          • Egad…!! That’s nearly as bad as nine HOBs discussed a while back!

            Talk about a perplexing twilight-zone-type riddle!

            In two places at once?

    • Ask, and ye shall receive:

      From Collected Works Bookstore Q&A (10/23/2013): (Woman off-camera): “Did you say a minute ago that it’s not on the top of the mountain?” Doug Preston repeats the question for Forrest: “Did you say just a minute ago that it’s not on the top of a mountain?”

      FF: “I hope I didn’t say that. (Laughter) I’ll, I’ll, I’ll tell you that, uh, that it’s not on the top of any mountain. That’s a big clue because there’s lots of mountains out there. [Hard to hear comment by man to Forrest’s left]. It may be close to the top.”

      View following link at 33:30: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsTdZRwnydw

        • Hi Clint: I believe so — at least to the level of satisfaction that I haven’t changed it in the last couple years.

      • Three Spanish crosses, (x’s)
        One mountain with 2 false peaks (3 x’s) on
        the map. All within walking distance of
        a parking lot. Which Spanish cross had
        the booty inside? I’m gonna chew on
        that for a while.

      • Jake,

        Perhaps. Or perhaps there is something in the soil that prevents the forest from growing there. Mind you, I found this image at the end of a potential “solve” in which the rest of the clues fit nicely. I wasn’t looking for a brave in the wood. Just happened upon it following the rest of the poem. It’s awfully coincidental that such a striking feature would be found in a place fitting of the rest of the poem.


        • But how did you find the image? Where in the poem told you to go to this spot? Are you using a map to solve or did you already solve the poem. Do you consider this pic some kind of clue? The Rockies are full of coincidences, what in line 23 made you think fact instead of coincidence?
          There’s nothing that f has put out that resembles anything within this pic, so did the poem give you numbers which in turn you found coordinates?
          If you found numbers and coordinates to solving the poem, then that is good, join the club, maybe down there somewhere is a chest full of what you are looking for. But if you are going by coincidences and a map, IMO, that is not solving the poem.

          • poisenivy,

            So the “image” as you call it is an actual location. And I found it by following the rest of the poem in a potential “solve.”

            That said, it certainly struck me to have come across such a distinct image at the end of the potential “solve” not unlike line 23 with a fitting description of the image found, which also happens to be at the end of the poem. It may indeed just be coincidence, but it peaked my curiosity further, into this area as a potential “solve” if for no other reason than its very peculiarity. If I recall correctly, everything else in the poem fit with this location, or vice versa, and I believe BOTG would be necessary for the blaze part, which isn’t something beyond what FF has indicated.

            And all statements here are IMO, but the thought s intriguing.


          • PS-

            I reread your questioning remarks and gave it some more thought. I describe elsewhere in this blog how I came upon this “image.” It involved answering FF’s question, and IMO that is the riddle so many are seeking to solve, along with a potential “key word” as has been discussed in other threads. Those two items indicated a specific location. The location has strong candidates for potential “answers” to the “nine clues.” Following the “clues” at this location resulted in discovering the image quite by happenstance, and yet not surprisingly. It fits in quite nicely with the rest of the “pieces” thus my curiosity. I suppose the only question for me that remains is: would this location be “special” to FF? That would require revealing the whole “solve” which I am certainly not opposed to as I do not intend to put BOTG. But, I’d like to find out a little more before I seriously suggest it in its totality. I posted the image because it is SO curious even standing alone. How often does one find a literal image on such a large scale that potentially matches a written description, historical or otherwise (such as in this chase). If I were reading a book, say, and it had this fanciful description in it, and I happened across an image, on a very different day, that may be the source of the reference I had previously read, wouldn’t it make you wonder? I have read elsewhere on these pages about FF’s encouragement to use the imagination and I am reminded of a very different fictional treasure hunt which I have referenced before. What if (and I have to chuckle at the use of that phrase to start this sentence), just what if FF’s words regarding the chase were not meant to invoke the very wonder Mikey had in the classic story of The Goonies? For those familiar with the movie you will recall his words after finding the map and all of his buddies wrote it off as a lost cause: “What if?”

            So I posted the image with that same sense of wonder Mikey had. When I first saw it I was like “No way.” That can’t possibly be what FF means by brave and in the wood. But then I asked myself “What if?” It would not seem so preposterous if the rest of the poem and the method of getting there wasn’t also so appealing. But, as so many have proposed over the decade long search now, this too is just a hypothesis. Albeit, one I think worth investigating a bit further.

            As an additional remark I would like for others to consider this: imagine someone writes up a poetical description of four fearless chiefs etched in the heart of their native land, home of Elk and Bear, where six became four, etc., etc….and then one day someone having read this poem comes across an mage of Mount Rushmore for the very first time! Imagine what they must be thinking! And yes, my brief descriptions above are in reference to Mount Rushmore. The point is, how were they to know “four chiefs etched” literally meant four presidential faces carved? It’s hard to say unless the rest of the poem also somehow makes sense. In the case of FF, it also have to have some special meaning to him as a location. Perhaps the writer of my hypothetical poem was the sculptor or the historian Robinson who is credited with conceiving the idea. The point here being that it wasn’t written jusy because. It was written for a reason. IMO, any potential “solve” ought to include a reason why FF would have described the area believed to be the “solve.” What makes this (meant in the general sense to include any……) “solve” special to FF?

            In the meantime, it is fun for so many to keep postulating! It’s the serious postulating I am most interested in.


          • A good real-world check is to use Google Earth and its historical imagery. I’d look to see if the spot had the same appearance over the range of images available for that location over time.

            I once had a solve with a similar visual coincidence, but when I looked back at the historical satellite imagery the visual thing was not there, thus I knew that “solve” (and, more importantly, my thinking) was wrong.

          • srch12345,

            Thanks for the advice! I did use GE’s time lapse records to review the history of the image. It does not appear as well defined going back but it’s hard to say given the distance limitations in the data and the decreasing quality in resolution the further back you go, So for now, it’s inconclusive. That said, more research is needed.


          • Hi Ann,

            All my questions revolved around if the poem told you to go there. Since you say it does, there is nothing wrong with incorporating it into a viable solution. The landscape I mean. To tell you the truth, it’s most likely that the blaze has something to do with a landscape. In fact, so do some of the pics, IMO.
            It’s hard to go by description as it correlates with the poem. But I know what you are saying. My area actually incorporates some of the pics out there from f, namely in the landscape. The gold nuggets for example on page . My landscape looks exactly like the big nugget. No other way to see it, but, if my poem solve was somewhere else, I would just write it off as coincidence.
            As far as calling it a pic, I just think that pics will somehow come into play in the end. It may be what you need to look into to be “wise”. I’ve said before, I’ve done everything to the pics surrounding the chase, and more often then not, I just see f having fun. Some pics have hints, IMO, but mostly, it’s f playing. To notice these things within the pics, IMO, offers a little insight into him, and possibly a hint on what to do at a location. I’ll give an example, my blaze, and I believe it’s a good one.
            Now isn’t that ridiculous. Calling what you see the blaze goes against the blaze being destroyed or not. It’s just a campfire. But there are oddities. Why is the burnt wood outside the pit? Why that “T” rock, why does it look like a 97? Obviously this has been staged, but so what right?
            The thing is, I had the coordinates to this spot before I left home. Also, it’s the landscape that is the blaze, what you see is marvel gaze, (the reference to 97). Also, in ’97, Summer, f was 66 years old, which I like because the sixth letter of the alphabet. But still, what about the blaze. Actually, if you know f has fun with pics by copying them onto each other, you would see the blaze if you took this pic and overlapped it onto itself. It’s in the landscape.
            With all the said, and like you said, you were drawn to your location from the poem, I had coordinates to this very spot. How would anyone know before they left the house that they would actually be able to say there is something definitely at such and such a place.
            So I get what you are saying, and would say that if the poem took you there, and the solve just matches up, then you must keep looking into it as plausible. Good luck Ann.

          • poisonivy,

            Thank you for sharing and understanding. I am of the opinion that the blaze is something to be determined once you have BOTG. That said, there is an interestingly place shiny squarish object found in the throat of the image of the brave if you were to zoom in. It measures larger than the dimensions of the chest but it could be the blaze! That would certainly be too good to be true. That said, it would fit in with line 21, “So hear me all and listen good” as we all know the vocal chords give rise to one’s voice. It’s enough for me to suggest the location as a place that should be looked into. Coincidence or not, it was very cool to stumble across the image for sure.


  76. Just wanted to say “thank y’all” for addressing some of my questions.
    Your thots are always appreciated.
    Oh so many possibilites to consider.

  77. Off the Cuff,
    After reading many postings here I see a lot of confidence being portrayed in the writings.
    My gut tells me that someone is close to the chest, whether or not they actually find it remains to be seen. My money is on the folks with vision.

    Good hunting come late spring.

  78. A Follow Up to Scouting references:

    Thought this might interest some. I was looking into Chase Canyon and came to North Ponil Creek. In trying to look up a definition for Ponil this is what I found…..


    While an exact definition eluded me, the list of notes in the above link seemed oddly interesting in light of FF’s poem, and some of the discussion thereabout. Check it out and let me know what you think.


  79. Does anyone here know the whereabouts of Curious Hobbit? I’ll bet he’s been within 500 feet of the treasure. Just guessin.

  80. No “Reply” option (again) to any of the discussion above between Alsetenash, Dal, and others re: the timeline as to when FF began the poem and when he hid the chest. So I’ll respond here.

    To Alsetenash >>> I could not find the exact quote you used; specifically, FF’s comment: “So it was 15 years from the time I got cancer until the time that I hid the treasure chest”. That would mean FF hid the chest ~ 2003. And your inference thus would be quite valid. Could you precisely document that FF quote, please.

    To those who say that the confusion doesn’t help searchers find the chest, I disagree. Most posters seem to think he hid the chest ~ 2009 or 2010. And I am inclined to agree with that. Yet, if Forrest actually said what Alsetenash has indicated, then that is just one more contradiction in a long string of contradictory verbal statements.

    If we cannot rely on this or other verbal comments Forrest has made, then why do searchers latch on to their favorite FF comments that justify searchers’ predetermined locational solutions? That’s a rhetorical question. For example …

    Seeker is fond of quoting FF as saying the first 2 searchers “walked” past the remaining seven clues. But given FF’s verbal contradictions and confusing verbal statements (the most recent being the above discussion between Alsetenash, Dal, et.al), then why should we believe that most of those nine clues are within a small, walkable, area? Could not FF have actually meant “drove past” or “went past” the other 7 clues?

    No, of course not, because searchers cling to FF’s precise verbal comments when those comments justify searchers’ beliefs about the clues and location; yet, searchers conveniently discount those FF verbal comments, like the above, that are irrelevant to, or contradict, their solution.

    You can’t have it both ways. Either FF’s verbal comments can be counted on as being valid, or they cannot be. And when there are contradictions, searchers can’t pick and choose which verbal comments to rely on and which to ignore.

    All of which is to say that a wise searcher will take FF’s verbal comments with a grain of salt. Allow him the freedom to make mistakes or say things off the cuff that’s not exactly right.

    Ergo, don’t base your solution on verbal comments. Base your solution on what the poem says; those 166 words are precise and mean exactly what Forrest intended; there are no contradictions in the poem.

    Ken (in Texas)

    • Ken,
      IMO, none of Mr. Fenn’s contradictory statements are lies or mistakes. They are deliberate statements conveyed by Mr. Fenn to aide a searcher in finding his treasure. There is no chance for a searcher to find Mr. Fenn’s gold without resolving these contradictions.

      Seeker’s right to latch on to this particular contradiction, his only problem is that his interpretation of it is wrong.

      IMO, you cannot solve Mr. Fenn’s puzzle without hearing the sound of one hand clapping.

      • CostaRico … sounds to me like you too have given up on trying to solve the poem. Good luck finding the treasure by way of Fenn’s verbal inconsistencies and contradictions.

        Ken (in Texas) 🙂

    • Ken,

      I just did a search on TarryScant.com for the words “15 years” and found quite a few of the quotes you are asking about.

      Personally, I don’t think the “when” matters to finding the chest. Knowing when it was hidden only provides clues to its location, which is why FF is cryptic about it. He does not give a date but insists he was “79 or 80” years old at the time.

      I believe I have a good solve, so I examined it from a timeline perspective. The clues all fit regardless of what year the chest was placed there. If my solve is correct, I can walk to the chest and go in peace. Of course, I won’t know for sure until I do, but I fail to see how a timeline could affect that solve.


    • Hi Ken (in TX):

      RE: “I could not find the exact quote you used; specifically, FF’s comment: “So it was 15 years from the time I got cancer until the time that I hid the treasure chest”. That would mean FF hid the chest ~ 2003. And your inference thus would be quite valid.”

      The first time was Toby Younis’s Moby Dickens Book Shop video (11/2/2013) at the 14:42 mark:

      “So it’s 15 years from the time that I got cancer until the time that I hid the treasure chest. 15 years. And the … the poem in my book, uh, is something that I changed over and over again.”


  81. From: https://dalneitzel.com/2015/08/16/forrest-gets-mail-8/

    Can you explain your first plan for the treasure, before your cancer went into remission? How did your disease impact the plan for the treasure? And why and when did you start it up again?

    I don’t know what you mean by “first plan.” When I was told that I had a 20% chance of living 3 years I decided to take some of my things with me. My plan was to let my body go back to the earth at the place where I hid the treasure. When my cancer went into remission I decided to hide the treasure anyway.

    “So it was 15 years from the time I got cancer until the time that I hid the treasure chest”. Maybe he meant ‘from the time I beat cancer’ or ‘from the time I had cancer last time’. (sometime in the 90s) That will make more sense than holding on to a conspiracy theory. imo.

    • Oz-
      or maybe he’s being literal. It was 15 years before he found the chest and bought it. After that he started filling it up and arranging the goodies inside it until, years later, he was happy with everything and hid it.

      • There is a story, interview, something about the purchase of the chest floating around here somewhere. Saying something to the affect it was exactly what he was looking for and had to pay full retail for it?
        The reason for bring this up.. if folks want to track it down.. I can’t remember if a year or time of any-kind was mentioned.

        • I know he talked about buying it from a friend at a museum, but I don’t think he indicated when he did that. TTOTC, page 129:

          “Fortunately, I talked a museum friend into selling me his beautiful cast bronze chest that had three-dimensional female figures on its four sides and on the lid. I know I paid way too much for it but once in a while something comes along that is so special as to discount all logical rules of value.”

          • Right, Lori.
            That’s from the book… There’s an interview where he talks about it as well… But I don’t recall when or where because it never really concerned me to know about the purchase to keep the info.

      • The purchasing of the chest was early on. The story about Ralph Lauren seemed to have been the same year he learned about the cancer (1988). In one interview he said that RL didn’t know he had cancer when he made the comment about ‘you can’t take it with you’. So given the odds of 20% chance of living 3 years ff thought he had just one year left. So the purchasing of the chest came right at that time (1988-1989) and he started filling it up because he was gonna take it with him.

        The point is that he has said he hid the treasure when he was 79-80. He has also said it took him about 15 years to write the poem. Both of those he has said more than a dozen times. Only one time where he misspoke. ?!?

        Maybe there was a mix-up of that (15 year) number. Coincidentally, he has also said that he wanted to do something different every 15 years. So it wouldn’t be terrible if he was thinking about the poem and not the hiding of the treasure. He hid the treasure in the poem as well so there is also that to think about.

        • “OFF: Ok good. Therein lies the rub. So, just tell us first of all why you decided to do this.

          FENN: In 1988 I was diagnosed with what everybody thought was terminal cancer. I lost a kidney, and my doctors gave me a 20 percent chance of living three years. It took a couple of weeks for that to soak in. Then, I finally decided that if I’ve got to go, I’m just going to take it with me, or take some of it with me. I’ve had so much fun collecting things over the last 75 years, that I thought it would be kind of neat for other people to have as much fun as I’ve had. That prompted me to buy a wonderful early old antique treasure chest. I gave $25,000 for the treasure chest. Over the months and years, after 1988, I started filling the treasure chest up with precious things. “

          • Ha! I just can’t help myself…

            “I’ve had so much fun collecting things over the last 75 years, that I thought it would be kind of neat for other people to have as much fun as I’ve had.”
            1930 + 75 = 2005?
            Does that change anything?

            Ah! but yet!… “Over the months and years, after 1988, I started filling the treasure chest up with precious things.”
            I would assume this is the actual 1150 AD chest… placed 2009ish, summer of?

            Again, the 2202-2003 timeline, for the first item theory, is slightly off. Don’t mind me teslA.. I don’t know why the year bugs me, but I also don’t think there were only two poems. he said he made many draft, they changed over the years. He also implied the first poem might have too easy, right?
            Wouldn’t ya love to see that first draft???
            I forget when Preston saw the chest and poem… but it was later than 2005… and being ‘about the same’ as the one we [published copy] know of [ something like that ]. That kinda implies not exactly, or his memory is just not firm enough to say for certain.

            You might be on to something… but that 2003 just doesn’t want to sit well with me. IF it makes a difference-?- then lets say, 2005 or 06.

            Side note; it seems we only know of one line, or there abouts, in the poem that he told us he changed; Take the chest, leave my bones…
            I highly doubt he would expand from that, because we already new the original plan / “story” was ruined [from the book]. And, he wanted to make the poem harder.
            The places and location may not have changed, however, how to umm, ‘maneuver’ through them might have?

            The one thing ya did, teslA… ya got me thinking, WhatIF…

          • That comment is a perfect example of what we are talking about here. He starts off by commenting about when he got diagnosed back in 1988, and then he ends that same comment with the events after he bought the chest (over the months and years, after 1988)

            But there is that one sentence in between: “I’ve had so much fun collecting things over the last 75 years…” He was 58 years old in 1988. Of course we know what he meant by that, he added up the years to that moment when he is answering that question/comment. All I’m saying is that we should use the same common sense in some of the other instances that may seem like contradictions.

        • What is wrong with saying that it took him (about) 15 years of writing and changing the poem over a period of 22 years? Very few of us can do anything over an extended period of time without losing interest, and setting that something aside for a bit of time, and then coming back to it.

          How long did it take Darwin to develop the theory of evolution or Michael Angelo to paint the Sistine chapel? Bet he took a few days or weeks off during the process. If you look it up, it says that it took 4 years. I would bet that if you counted actual work time, it might be closer to 3 to 3.5 years – Just a guess.

          When Forrest says that he spent 15 years – that MIGHT be 15 years of actual work over a period of 22 years. Just a thought.

          How long does it take to play a football game? Rules say 4 quarters at 15 minutes each with a half time break of 15 minutes. With time-outs, time to move the chains, etc well over two hours is spent to play a one hour and 15 minute game. Do we quibble when it goes past that allotted time? Hardly – We just accept the fact that it takes longer than the stated time. How is this different? JMO – JDA

          • JDA ~ ‘How long does it take to play a football game?’

            Yep… answer; *4 quarters at 15 minutes each.*
            Everything else is added time for “watching” the game. That’s why they have a “play” clock.
            Just saying …. might not be the best example, because example falls into teslA wheel house.

          • Huh ,Seeker? My mathematical wheelhouse? Are you referring to the FF 75 years of collecting thing:

            “I’ve had so much fun collecting things over the last 75 years,…”

            He said that in 03/05/2013 , which makes him 82/83 years of age and 74/75 years from 1939 when he found his first arrowhead (collection)’

            Do you mean as this as an example lol. It’s what he says. Non-conflicting, no mistakes . 🙂


            In my opinion

          • Play ball!!… opps, wrong sport…lol
            But baseball would have been a better analogy for JDA’s point.
            As far as math goes;
            / = 1
            + 2
            4 + 1 = 5

  82. Oh what joy to tune in here and see the grist mill churning away. No Day Finds us where the day before left us.

    While preparing the prenuptials for the coming CELEBRATION of the shotgun wedding of marriage between poem and map I have stumbled headlong across what may be evidence that the treasure is indeed in New Mexico.

    The state motto of New Mexico is
    Translated from Latin meaning
    Taken from a poem describing lightening

    As it relates to contradictions IT GROWS AS IT GOES may also be describing Pinocchio’s nose.

    “A Merry Heart Doeth Good Like A Medicine”

    • Guy Michael – One of the recent winners of a lamppost banner contest in Taos, NM:


      I also watched a film a few weeks ago about the life of Georgia O’Keefe, with an excellent portrayal of her photographer husband done by Jeremy Irons. Lots of great cinematography in and around Taos in that movie.

      Can a searcher who said she will never leave Montana be swayed by Forrest’s recent response to Jenny Kyle about not following what is said on the blogs, regarding what state to search in?


      Do you happen to know what creek that is, shown in the foreground above?

  83. LOL!! Did he hide the chest prior to 2009/2010?? H3LL NO! 🙂

    Seeker, PD, Lori, et al:

    A somewhat disinterested third-party; author Craig Childs, wrote in his book Finders, Keepers, that he had seen the chest and held the bracelet a few weeks before Fenn was raided. This was in 2009!

    http://www.houseofrain.com/bookdetail.cfm?id=1281649336899 – release date

    Craig Childs “finders Keepers” – Childs holds bracelet – a few weeks after my visit, Fenn’s house was raided by federal agents…… https://books.google.com/books?id=0oAeZRdtNHoC&pg=PT137&lpg=PT137&dq=fenn's+bracelet,+craig+childs&source=bl&ots=v6S5126KDs&sig=nKnBPaYhKjbnBZGEISme-gLy5pY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjXz8Pz24LUAhWs7YMKHeniBBUQ6AEILTAC#v=onepage&q=fenn's%20bracelet%2C%20craig%20childs&f=false

    http://www.houseofrain.com/rantsandwritings.cfm?mode=detail&id=1244828777306&group=writings – Only weeks before, I had visited Fenn and we had spent a day going through his litany of artifacts……

    Craig Childs – http://www.lastwordonnothing.com/2017/07/03/death-in-the-line-of-treasure-hunting/ – When my gaze fell back on the treasure chest, I told him I could hide it for him. I could put it someplace where people wouldn’t find it for centuries. But Fenn didn’t want it to be so hard. He wanted to hide it himself. He wanted it to be found. But more than anything, he wanted it looked for. He was throwing a piece of meat into the alligator pit to watch everyone jump for it. He wanted lives changed and courses altered by the movement of his hand. That’s the trickster in him.

    June 11, 2009 – Fenn raided – https://www.abqjournal.com/news/state/11231777406newsstate06-11-09.htm

    Do ya homework……………loco

    (don’t know how long it will take before this posts, too many links…..))

    • Craig Childs also authored another excellent book, circa 2000: ‘The Secret Knowledge of WATER’

      Just mentioning………..

    • Yes… Kraven was in on a thread some time back when we were speaking of the *timeline* and the *raid*, etc. Sometimes old news is new news… to some. The sleight of hand is often a funny thing. Thanks loco.

    • Yep, loco.
      Summer of 2009.

      However, teslA was talking about something altogether different, possibly hidden in or about 2003. { that date still baffles me }.
      Anyways; it basically a second story {mystery} to understand the poem.
      I’m still flipping it over in my head, but nothing changes the “summer of 2009” in my book, for the “treasure chest” being hidden.
      But now I have to go get; ‘The Secret Knowledge of WATER’ because my curiosity has been slapped. Just because you said it’s a good read.

      • Seeker. Yes, thanks for clarifying , and understanding what I said. The 2002/2003 give or take whatever ; is by what FF said himself for timeline. It’s something that is an old topic, rehash and rehash , and seasoned searchers are of their decided opinions. That’s all good, I’m not trying to convince.

        I know you like quotes:

        “I don’t want to broaden the clues and hints I’ve written about by pointing them out. What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve.”f

        There’s another good quote that 0z10 quoted from Fenn from a linked YouTube interview he posted on this blog’s odds and ends back in 2018. But that video is now private , so I won’t post the quote because I can’t show verification. It’s a good one like the one above.

        Oh well, but there is this one:

        “Well, you don’t know where it is. When somebody finds that treasure chest, everybody’s going to say, ‘My God! Why didn’t I think of that?”f

        Hindsight will be 2020.

        IMO .

    • Thank you for the links, locolobo. I concur the treasure chest was seen in 2009. My responses were in regards to Mr. Fenn’s post about hiding the treasure chest before the poem was complete/completed (paraphrased). Could it have suggested he hid it before he completed the written poem? Or, could he have meant the treasure chest was hidden before the end of the poem (complete/completed)? Each done in the timeline brought forth.

      • *I could have written the poem before I hid the treasure chest, but I didn’t. f (Posted October 14th, 2016)

        *To answer some questions and save others from being asked, I did follow the clues in the poem when I hid the treasure chest, although I hid it before the poem was complete. (Completed?) f (posted 6/5/2017)

        Do they say the same thing or not?

        • Oz,
          First off, there are other comments I would consider as well.

          We know he had a least a draft or first copy poem and then changed it…[ this is why we need to consider other comments ]… one being comment be how easy he thought the early one was… That was long before 2009.
          Seeing we don’t have a real grasp on the first comment you posted, as to when, wouldn’t the obvious answer be he could have written the clues in the poem [ or full poem ] from memory at any time after being there [his special place] for the first time?
          Only he never had a reason to even think about writing a poem, death, or a challenge.
          **The question is and always as been; when did he come across the location?

          The second comment relates directly to “following” those clues in the poem…
          finish *making or doing.*
          having all the *necessary or appropriate parts.*
          make (something) *whole* or perfect.

          So, is fenn talking about ‘writing’ as the idea of complete?
          finish making or doing… making the poem whole.
          Another comment to consider, out of many… a physical presents is need… there are a couple of comment relating to this.

          When we add some of the other comments; [this is my opinion]

          He could have wrote the poem at anytime after coming across what he calls his special place IF there was a need at that time. The need didn’t come until as early as 1988.

          And I can’t say this enough; one of the most asked question was whether he followed his own clue or took a short cut / short route? [there’s also the Q&A about the “route”]
          The second comment, to me, is tell all; [gonna add yet another comment] *there is no other way but to follow the clues, that he knows of.*

          His created clues. There must be a reason the creator of the clues finally said he followed the clues in the poem [ all 9 because that is what is “in the poem”]… maybe because he had to use the poem’s clues to actually have the poem’s information work for him as well, while on site “when I hid the treasure chest” ??? as we do?

          Here’s a question. Lets say [just for fun] he didn’t finish writing the poem until just before he added it to the book [2010]. Realistically it can’t be a clue, because he already followed them. right?
          so it would need to be outside the 3 stanzas we all hope are the clues section… if true… which section or line would you think it might be?
          We know of one that was changed early on… …take the chest and leave my bones… what else could possibly change at or around 2009 – 10?

          IMO… those two comments can’t be the only comments used, that we have to date. Other comment are needed to get a better perspective. I personally can’t hang my hat on one or two, when we have 10 years of related information to help form a possible idea.
          ATFs are a helpful check and balance for any ideas… but more than one or two may be needed.

          Just sayin……..

    • Hi Loco: thanks for the collection of Craig Childs links. You probably noticed that Craig unnecessarily muddies the waters by being inconsistent about when he saw the chest. In the House of Rain link (6/12/2009) he wrote: ““The sting extended beyond Blanding to nearby Colorado and New Mexico. Forrest Fenn, a wealthy collector in Santa Fe, was also hit, although he was not named in the Four Corners indictment. Agents entered Fenn’s home on Monday (that would have been June 8, 2009) and confiscated artifacts, records, and his computers. Only weeks before, I had visited Fenn and we had spent a day going through his litany of artifacts, most of which he declared legal, either acquired from private land (legal in this country) or from a chain of hands predating antiquities laws.”

      So “only weeks before” would (or should) have been May 2009. (Minor side note: The Albuquerque Journal says the FBI raid was Wednesday, June 10, not Monday, June 8, so one of them is off a couple days.) However, in the July 3, 2017 post (“Death in the Line of Treasure Hunting”) Childs wrote: “A few years before he announced the treasure hunt in 2010, I saw this chest with my own eyes. I was interviewing Fenn in his Santa Fe home about his collection of pre-Columbian artifacts….” Clearly 2009 was not “a few years before” 2010. I’m inclined to believe his memory was more accurate in 2009 than eight years later.

  84. Regarding When the Chest was Hidden-

    While I agree knowing when the chest was hidden could lead some to figure out perhaps where FF had been/gone around that same time, I find this debate over the year quite dismaying. The simple answer should be: if FF hid the chest at age 79-80, as some have indicayed (and I am sure there is some quote or interview regarding this though I am not privy) then for Pete’s sake what year was FF 79-80? Any year would make his age different. So either he hid it at 79-80 or he didn’t. If he did, what year would that be? If he didn’t then debate away. All IMO of course.


    • Hi Ann: not that it matters, but Forrest was definitely 79 when he hid the chest. 80 is ruled out by both Irene Rawlings and Doug Preston.

      • Zap,

        Thanks for the info! It certainly matters. If he was 79 then what year did he hide the chest? Some simple math should give us that. Since I do not know what year he was born I cannot do the calculation. But there you have it. The year the chest was hidden. And on that note, are there any records of FF’s travels for that year? Wouldn’t we all love to see his financial records to help narrow down the timeline and possibly where he traveled and when? Just saying……

        All IMO.


        • Hi Ann: we know it was “summer” (which based on Forrest’s childhood vacations I take to mean June, July or August), we know it was on or after 8/22/2009 (the day he turned 79), and we know it was before July 14th, 2010, because he had lunch with Irene Rawlings in Santa Fe on Tuesday, July 13th (+/- a day), and he told her he had already hidden the treasure.

      • zaphod73491,
        IMO, knowing the exact date when Mr. Fenn hid his treasure should matter to every serious searcher. There is a reason why Mr. Fenn doesn’t want to release the date. And yes, I agree, he was 79 when he hid the treasure.

      • CostaRico: I agree with you, but I don’t want to reveal why it’s important. I’ve posted here before that I believe he hid the chest on Father’s Day, June 20, 2010, the last day of spring.

  85. You are correct Loco. Craig is a regular on the Durango book signing circuit and I’ve talked with him a few times. He told me “Finders Keepers” was the most difficult book he has written. I think “The Secret Knowledge of Water” was part of both my daughters’ college curriculum at Fort Lewis College ( Fort Leisure). Small town stuff…professor/author links and southwest subject matter. Craig is one of my favorite contemporary authors.

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