Home of Brown…

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This is for a discussion about “the home of Brown” in Forrest’s poem.

Got an HOB that didn’t work out…or maybe you need an HOB for a certain area…or perhaps you have an idea that needs some fleshing out..

This is the place to discuss all things HOB…

dal…

192 thoughts on “Home of Brown…

    • I’m not saying I know where the treasure is but I think I might be able to help someone find it if they can locate the first clue. I think they keys to solving the poem is solving the man who wrote it and discovering his first clue. Mr Fenn is a man from the old times of simple times. The first two clues seam to be straight forward. You find where the warm waters halt, there then should be a canyon down stream within a few minutes or short hike. Home of brown is most likely a spectacular spot to fly fish on the point of a river. Mr Fenn is a lifetime avid fisherman and it’s been a huge part of his life so there’s no way he would leave it out of his life’s work as this poem is. I’ve fished all over this country on all different types of fishing gear. In the Rockies, brown trout love deep pools to gather, but the great spots are deep pools that are at the bottom of small falls. They sit in these pools to catch small bugs and smaller fish that come into the pools and get disorientated and they pick the bugs and smaller fish off. But the important thing in my eyes is not the home of brown part but the “put in below” part. My father and his friends were and are the same age as Mr Fenn and when we would come back from fishing in the back woods they would always ask me and my brothers “where did you put in at”? Meaning a few different things. Put in could be where we started casting at, or started wading into the water at but in this reference I believe Mr Fenn is referencing a place he crossed the river at. Typically at the bottom of deep pools the water goes shallow which are the best places for fisherman to cross. Anyone who’s fished in the Rockies know to get to the best spots you have to cross the rivers at shallow spots several times. And Mr Fenn references this also at the end of his poem by saying “you’re effort will be worth the cold”. Anyone who has fished the Rockies knows the waters are typically cold because most rivers are caused by glacier runoff. Just a few of my thoughts. Could be wrong but maybe it will help someone who is close. I have a few other ideas on the rest of the poem. If interested write me back.

      • Rocky Mountain Brown Water and the Wild History of Fluoride

        Some of the greatest scientific discoveries occurred by accident. From falling apples, to sandwiches that don’t mold, some of our greatest achievements began as simple analysis of the natural surroundings. Fluoride, one of dentistry’s most powerful tools in the fight against cavities, also has a similar origin story.

        The Colorado Brown Stain

        • There is a warm spring associated with the Brown Stain. Just happens to be where they piped the water from and where they piped it to. No special knowledge here. A good map and a little imagination can get you there, although some knowledge of geography will help and a little bit about borders. Yep, borders. Remember getting back in the box, all borders are not as they appear today!

      • Hi Cody,
        Do you think WWWH is where a warm waters river joints a cold waters river or maybe where a warm waters river suddently becomes a cold waters river because of the NM fishing regulations boundaries?
        Do you live in NM?

        • I do t think it has much to do with the temp of the water. My feeling is it has to do with the flow of the water. Halt doesn’t mean to permanently stop it means to temporarily stop than release. I think WWH is a reference to the name of the river and shortly past where a road crosses the river, the river slows or runs into a deep pool then flows down a canyon. Fenn said you can locate the treasure with a good map, his book, the poem and common sense. I’m positive you can locate the starting point by finding the river and canyon on a map. The only way you would know where to look is if the river has a name with a thermal reference in it.

    • In Fenn’s TTOTC, page 62, he mentions a horse named Lightning (with a capital letter). Could HOB be the home of a horse named Brown?

      • Gantu – Could be! But then what sort of place could be considered a horse’s home? Since wild horses roam all over the open land, I would think only a domesticated horse would have a home small enough to use as a waypoint in a treasure hunt. So that could maybe be a ranch, a barn, a stable, a corral, or possibly even a hitching post. But those are all man-made structures too, which may or may not be a deal-breaker.

      • Cody—
        The Fort currently known as Washakie was once called Fort Brown. It was moved from below Landers north to it’s current location. This may be what pix is referring to.

        • Sorry. To correct: Fort Brown was at Lander and was moved north when renamed Washakie. So to “put in below the home of Brown” could refer to Lander

        • I think FF is being very specific on his directions except for the first two clues. Lander Wyoming is a very vague clue. Lander does have a river running through the center of its town but it’s heavily populated and it’s close to 25 miles till you get to non private property outside of Lander. FF is a antiquities dealer, so there’s no way he places the treasure on private property. Lander would be a to obvious choice especially since he has family there but he’s not walking through the town doing this. If Lander is HOB then that would mean WWWH and the canyon below is before lander. FF wouldn’t be taking this strike through a populated area. He said it was away from trails and roads. Do t think lander fits.

        • Maybe below is in terms of altitude so you put in somewhere down a canyon outside of the city? Also if FF put in below the home of Brown he could be several miles away from Lander. Also Brown is capitalized and so are names of Cities.

    • Jake…does that statement bring us back around to the idea that we will find WWWH and HOB closely associated / within very close proximaty to one another….perhaps both even considered one and the same associated feature?? I can see it as a possibility. In my mind, the riddle is “not far but too far to walk”. Thanks for the quote.

      • I don’t think WWWH and HOB are within a mile or 2 of each other.
        The one word that links things or places close together (in the poem) is “and”.
        Notice in the poem where “and” is and it seems as though he wants those things together and we don’t have “and” in the lines before or after PIBTHOB although we have “And take it in the canyon down” but I think that line relates WWWH and take it the canyon down.

        Not far, but too far to walk separates PIBTHOB from ATIITCD and we must know what distances Fenn could not walk when he wrote that line in the poem NF,BTFTW in order to get the distance right on how far we travel down the canyon to get to “Put in” place below HOB.

        You begin at WWWH which is not in a canyon because you have to “take it *IN* the canyon down” which means your *OUT* of the canyon at WWWH. (All the canyons I see labeled on a map are not small, they are many miles long) You then go down the canyon (in elevation) by not walking until you find the “Put in” place below HOB but Fenn doesn’t tell us how far below HOB to “Put in”.

        Say HOB is a couple miles wide? On which side of HOB do you “Put in” below and how far? I would say HOB must be much smaller in size where there is no question where below is and where to “Put in”.

        I think the most important detail is where you “Put in” but Fenns directions are so vague and having Brown capitalized draws all sorts of attention to thinking this is the most important word in the poem but that was part of his plan and may be the least important word in the 9 clues.

        Bottom line is I think it’s more important where you draw out and not “Put in” if they are nautical terms.

        This is just my brain waves.

        • Jake – I see your brain waves and I’m waving right back. I was chatting with another searcher the other day and we explored the idea of WWWH = HOB. High Desert Drifter had mentioned the concept a week or so ago and I know the topic has come up more than once in the past. I can’t reconcile the thought easily but am open to ideas. Thank you for yours!

          Another thought is that the distance between WWWH and HOB might be the “distance” Forrest recently described in a SB when he was using his hand to make a measurement. Turn those inches into miles…like a map (1″ = 1mile)???

          • I think it would be a waste of one of these clues if WWWH = HOB.
            The clues may be related in some way but as far as one clue equalling the other just doesn’t make any sense unless one of them is a “useless clue” which could be a possibility and you could still find the chest.

            Brown seems like a magnet to all ferrous materials.
            It wouldn’t surprise me at all if HOB or Brown only exists in Fenns mind.

      • a color a head stone a fish a wish ive ran across the headstone but not sure if i will ever make it back there a place ive been to as defined but the real place is like a image in the mirror you see it but is it real the image that is good luck to all on this one be safe out there wait a week or two for snow melt to be safe not sorry

  1. Imo – HOB is will work as a state or a city.
    Just depends which direction you are going.

    And then once you get to the correct location – there is still another HOB.

  2. Do you think it would be good or bad for a potential solution to have triplicate explanations? For example, if my home of Brown has a mountain, an actual brown home, and another reason it could be the home of Brown, say a person or famous animal.

    The other problem with one current idea I’m working is that if you asked why it’s wwwh I would say “These three reasons.”

    I can’t tell if multiple meanings for important clues is bad for this solve or if it’s supposed to instill some sort of confidence. Is multiple explanations elegant or convoluted? I’ve never had this sort of problem arise in any previous attempts toward a simple and elegant solution.

    • I think it would be a good thing to have multiple reasons pointing to that clue. Maybe the one that you think is important is not what FF intended, but the other one is. I personally am looking at it that I need three indicators from 3 different sources, (the poem, the map, the book, the Cheat Sheet, interview quote, etc.)

  3. Hello Everyone,

    I guess I should explore this entire website a bit more. I’ve only been posting in Key Word!

    That said, I just posted my thoughts on line 8 of the poem, which obviously fits this discussion. I am reposting those remarks here for food for thought:

    In regards to line 8 of the poem it should be noted that the line is a stand alone sentence. When I initially started playing with the arrangement of the prepositional phrases in the poem I ran across some “hiccups” with lines 7 and 8. But, as I mentioned to Lori, I had overlooked something. That something was the fact that line 8 is a stand alone sentence. That said, my prepositional phrase approach could render line 8 to read:

    The home of Brown put in below.

    And this may make sense to some but to be sure, the question for everyone seems to have been where was the treasure put in below the home of Brown? And obviously, where or what is the home of Brown. But, if line 8 “Put in below the home of Brown.” is taken to mean “The home of Brown put in below.” (Which the rules of prepositional phrases allow.) then that line may become a bit more clear. Instead of “Where is the home of Brown the treasure is put in below?”, searchers can ask themselves “Where is the home of Brown put in below?”

    If this still doesn’t make any sense, consider lines 5-7 where most of the words seem to be descriptive. In this new rendering of line 8, the home of Brown would be placed in the canyon of line 6 down below wherever it is the rest of the stanza has you situated. Line 8 is more informational in this instance than directive. As if FF was saying “BTW, the home of Brown is in the canyon down below.”

    -Ann

    • Follow up repost:

      In the context of the analysis described above, and for disclaimer purposes (IMO), a solution to the rendering of line 8, read as “The home of Brown put in below.” (To quote myself.), could be Miss Molly Brown. My previous post was more informative but this will suffice here.

      -Ann

        • me,

          Put in the home of Brown below doesn’t quite keep the proposition intact but it certainly would be among the rearrangement possibilities. However, as others have pointed out elsewhere, the chest was not placed inside of a dwelling. So your rendition seems to be ruled out by that.

          -Ann

  4. If it were a couple hundred years or so in the future and you knew nothing about the chase and found the book TTOTC and read it. And that is all you know wouldn’t it make since that when you got to the poem the first thing that would come to mind when you read the line put in below the home of Brown, is that Brown is or was a person. That’s what I see if I nothing else. If all I had to go on was the poem the one thing that would stand out would be the word Brown. My quest would be to figure out who Brown was.

    • I totally agree; that was my thought exactly.
      At first, I thought New Mexico = adobe abode. The guy was 80, it must be close to his home so he could keep an eye on it. Then I bought TTOTC and read that he was a highly skilled pilot…
      Then I thought, Yellowstone, Wyoming/Montana…
      Who is Brown?
      That guy “Google” knows everything! Who Brown was, what he did, where he lived, etc.

    • I think you would be wiser (and not Bud) to find WWWH before trying to find out who, what or where HOB or Brown is.
      No matter how many hundreds or thousands of years in the future.

        • Ann: the # of potential Browns (or homes of Brown) relative to the potential # of WWWHs is irrelevant if the former cannot be solved prior to the latter.

          Forrest Gets Mail from a Middle Class School (2/8/2017): Q: “Our final guess is that the treasure may be along road 156 in Wyoming. Thank you for taking time out of your day to help us in our class!” Forrest’s reply: “You cannot solve the problem by starting in the middle of the poem. You should start with the first clue and then solve the other eight in order.”

          And back even earlier, but more specific to home of Brown:

          Dal’s response to Clayton on April 13, 2014, link: http://dalneitzel.com/2014/04/08/where_warm_waters_halt/#comment-35874

          “Forrest said: You need to start at the beginning. You need to figure out where warm waters halt.’ He said this because many searchers were skipping directly to home of Brown. That is the point at which many folks were starting. ..because (I suppose) it is easier. He was trying to get them to think about the first clues rather than the middle… Forrest said, ‘You’ll never find it that way. You need to start at the beginning. You need to figure out where warm waters halt.’ And then I believe he went on to say that the clues are consecutive and we need to figure them out in the order they are, in the poem…”

          • Zephod,

            I never said figuring out Brown first would lead to the chest. Even assuming a correct guess for Brown, one would still need to start the Chase at clue one in order to arrive at purported answer for Brown. Clearly, WWWH has to lead to HOB. But, since there are less HOB’s, statistically it is simpler to try and identify HOB than WWWH. You ae not wrong in your point. FF does not, however, rule out that HOB may be identified prior to starting at WWWH. It is possible HOB is needed to figure out WWWH just as FF has said you need all of the words. In the case of Molly Brown, it would obviously be required to find a WWWH, if one even exists. If not, then Molly Brown may not be a likely solution. I gave Molly Brown as an example of a fit to the analysis employed, not as an emphatic solve. Thus, I asked for feedback concerning the proposal.

            -Ann

          • Zaphod – Couldn’t one look for WWWH, the canyon down, AND home of Brown all at the same time without breaking them apart? I feel like those three particular clues (if they are indeed 3 separate clues) can only compliment one another when trying to marry the poem up to a location on a map.

            It wouldn’t necessarily be skipping ahead in the poem; just considering a larger chunk of the poem (that might include multiple clues) together as a starting point, rather than WWWH all by its lonesome.

          • Zephod,

            As a PS, this form of sorting out the knit and grit is precisely what will likely lead someone to a correct resolution. So I thank you for the exchanges.

            -Ann

          • Blex,

            Good points. While there may be distinct clues on how to get from A-B, they are all part of the overall Chase and therefore related. Whether one follows or flows into the next or they work in conjunction with one another, they really are not likely “solvable” in the grand scheme of things on an individual basis. The only reason a “solve” for WWWH would prove fruitful is if there was also a HOB associated with it, and a canyon and all the other clues mentioned in the poem. To say that figuring out WWWH will inevitably lead to the rest of the clues falling in place is unrealistic. That would be akin to saying that because you have the corners of the puzzle in place, all the other pieces with fall in line. Realistically, each piece has it’s place and yet they all go together to complete the picture. Just some thoughts.

            -Ann

          • Blex,

            That hold some merit as the clue being different and still possibly not separate.

            Begin it where WWsH [ say a lake ] and the lake waters take in in the CD by way of gravity. Not far, may indicate a straight line from one side to another by water, or too far too walk means around the lake on the shorter down side, which could indicate down as south for that reason.
            A searcher would {put in} below the lake and in this case [the lake] would be the hoB.
            Approx. 4 clues talking about one place made up from those four clues. With all the clue’s references making a whole, of a single location, of the first four clues.

            And I’m back to; how many clues produce an answer?

            Many like to believe hoB can be found and they just go to it,,, ok,,, but WhatIF all the clues are part of WWsH, including hoB as the lake-?-where something lives, In this scenario.

            As you may have implied… those clues don’t need to be broken down individually. They might be parts of a whole… leading to a single conclusion; WWsH is hoB, and the CD is the drainage of the lake in a down manner… possibly being gravity/ elevation in a southward direct.

            Plausible…

          • Blex,

            I like the note about down possibly meaning a southern directopn. That is certainly a possibility. Which if the HOB is in the canyon and the canyon is south of where I am standing then WWWH would be somewhere north of HOB. Interesting……

            -Ann

          • Ann O’Nymous – I have had some past solves where “down” applied to both lower in elevation AND south at the same time. I don’t know if that’s necessary for solving the poem, but it does make it simpler when one thing can apply positively to multiple interpretations at once.

          • Blex,

            Agreed. I just hadn’t thought of down in that sense of the word before. Thus the thanks. I’ve only been aware of any of this for a little over 48 hours now. I’ve been chomping away at the structure and words of the poem. So every little bit helps.

            -Ann

          • Seeker – That line of thinking is pretty much why I’ve never put forth much effort into identifying EXACTLY what the nine clues are and making myself a numbered list to which I can mentally lock myself into. I’m more concerned with marrying the poem up to a location. which I feel is the prize I should keep my eye on. Once I find the treasure, I can spend my early retirement nailing down what the nine clues were exactly! 😉

            It’s interesting; when I started trying to figure this poem out I dismissed the idea of people who were looking for a home of Brown before WWWH as a starting point. But this past summer, the solve I was chasing after happened to begin with me finding an interesting home of Brown, and then going backwards to find a reasonably decent WWWH to give me confidence for a BOTG trip. I’ll freely admit that it turned out to not be a very good solve in the end, but it seemed plausible at the time. I’m putting the finishing touches on my write-up presently and will be sending to dal in the near future for posting up on this blog, so stay tuned for that!

          • Hi Blex: “Couldn’t one look for WWWH, the canyon down, AND home of Brown all at the same time without breaking them apart?”

            I don’t see a problem with that, unless it causes a searcher to over-focus on Brown, or overweight it, at the expense of WWWH. In my opinion, “home of Brown” in isolation is unsolvable, whereas WWWH in isolation from hoB and even “canyon down” is not.

            Since, IMO, hoB is neither the 2nd clue nor the 3rd, nor even all of the 4th, I think it’s getting too far ahead of oneself to be bothering with it until WWWH has been confidently nailed down. Clearly this can be achieved — and in fact, if the early two clue solvers are any indication, “home of Brown” was of absolutely no use to them in figuring out WWWH since that clearly did not yield a 3rd or 4th clue solution.

            However, I think it’s very smart to take advantage of Forrest’s admission that the clues are contiguous, and to therefore focus on WWWH *and* canyon down simultaneously. I just fear going beyond these two is only going to muddy the waters.

          • Hi Ann: we have the advantage of knowing that the earliest searchers who solved the first two clues did so without correctly solving “Put in below the home of Brown.” My only caveat here is that I’ve assumed that “Put in below the home of Brown” is NOT the 2nd clue. (I can make a strong argument for this being true, but no one but Forrest knows if it IS true.)

            “Clearly, WWWH has to lead to HOB.”

            Eventually, perhaps, but certainly not immediately or obviously. Searchers were collectively stuck at having solved only two clues by Sept. 2012, and remained that way through all of 2013 and 2014. Even by November 2015, the only reported extra progress by Forrest was that “Some may have solved the first four clues, but I am not certain.”

            “But, since there are less HOB’s, statistically it is simpler to try and identify HOB than WWWH.”

            That’s an interesting assumption on your part. What do you base it on? Playing Devil’s Advocate, I think I could come up with at least as many if not more candidates for “home of Brown” than for WWWH. But you have plenty of company: people convince themselves that it might be easier to tackle hoB first and then backtrack to WWWH. Trouble is, nobody successfully did so in the first 5 years of the Chase. I think some searchers are just overly attracted to that capital B, and ignore Forrest’s opinion that they’ll never solve the clues by starting somewhere in the middle of the poem.

            “FF does not, however, rule out that HOB may be identified prior to starting at WWWH.”

            Yet nor does he ever suggest it could be.

            “It is possible HOB is needed to figure out WWWH…”

            Unfortunately, that possibility is refuted based on Forrest’s timeline of the quantity of clues solved. ~Can~ it be done that way? Perhaps. “Had” it ever been done successfully that way by mid 2015? Not to Forrest’s knowledge. But it’s clear that solving “home of Brown” is not a requirement for solving WWWH.

          • Zephod,

            Your replies are marvelous and well heeded. I would only make the following counter, no one has ever solved te Chase by supposedly solving WWWH first either. 🙂 The truth of the matter is, while the poem was certainly written in some sort of order, it is technically possible for someone to stumble across the chest without ever having known about the poem at all!! So to say, one thing “needs” to be done before the other is sort of moot.

            That said, I do like the idea of a more wholistic approach. After all, it’s the entire poem that will get you there and not one or two of the clues. Even those who supposedly “solved” clues one and/or two but not the rest still don’t have the chest in hand. And IF they actually SOLVED the first two clues, then surely following up on their previous solves OUGHT to lead them to the rest. But let’s face it, that hasn’t happened in the past several years either.

            I am assuming none of the poem has actually been solved. If so, then the gathering of information by serious searchers would certainly narrow down the possible starting points, since those are the clues seemingly deemed to have been “solved.”

            In terms of FF saying the treasure would never be found starting in the middle, perhaps he was referring to the literal BOTG chase and not analysis of the poem. In either case, I have just as good a chance of finding the chest by scouring the entire search area with a metal detector at this point, as all this conjecturing here does. Unless and until, someone or someones definitely deduce anything for certain, we are all left to guess.

            Realistically, I would hold a conference, perhaps annually, to collect data and update everyone on the latest information. While chatter is nice, is there anyone seriously mapping all of this out geographically, topologically and deductively? If I am trying to find a needle in the haystack, I certainly would begin from one end and systematically search the stack eliminating areas one at a time until I found the needle. I would also keep those areas away from he pile once searched so as not to make the pile endless.

            There are literally only so many places the chest could. And while that number may be large at first glance, it surely should be able to be narrowed some quite quickly. As a mathematician though, it is boils down to a numbers game for me. The chest is either in x, y, z, etc…..and one by one you eliminate where it is not.

            The poem tells us where the chest is. It also tells us where the chest is not. And I imagine the thins FF has said over the years helps tell us too. I don’t think WWWH standing alone will get us there, WWWH in conjunction with the rest of the information will. Until the chest is actually found, it’s impossible to say what the best approach will be unless of course you are FF.

            One last note: while the “9 clues” may be 9 distinct clues, you have to consider the context in which they are written. For instance, it would not make sense to try and interpret lines 5 and 6 separately since they are actually part of the same sentence. Similarly, while some clues may be separated grammatically, the meaning from one line to the next may carry over, as in some of the rules of grammar already discussed.

            IMO, if someone has figured out one of the clues, they have figured out all of the clues.

            -Ann

          • Hi Ann: thank you very much! And let me just say that for someone who is brand new to the Chase, you are coming up to speed very rapidly.

            Your counter is noted: that so far solving WWWH first has been just as successful an approach to finding Indulgence as has been attempting to solve home of Brown first. 😉 I still think it’s wisest to heed Forrest’s advice and work the clues in order.

            “While chatter is nice, is there anyone seriously mapping all of this out geographically, topologically and deductively?”

            Some have attempted this type of divide-and-conquer approach (e.g. creating websites with maps of all the places that people have used for WWWH). I don’t think it can be practically applied to the Chase; very few areas have been searched with the sort of precision that could eliminate them.

            The bronze casket is only 10″ x 10″ x 6″, and getting within 200 feet of it is apparently insufficient for guaranteed discovery. How close do we have to come before failure is no longer likely? About the only guidance we have on that is point #2 from Scrapbook 78:

            https://dalneitzel.com/2014/06/25/scrapbook-seventy-eight/

            As a mathematician, you can estimate the number of miles you would have to walk in the 4-state search area in order to complete a 24-foot boustrophedonic (50-cent word for the day!) grid, thus guaranteeing an approach to within 12 feet of the treasure. (It’s thousands of times the distance to the Moon.) I should think finding a needle in an acre-sized haystack would be easier (especially with a magnet or a metal detector!)

          • Zaphod,

            Thanks for sharing the link! I am indeed new to all of this so any information at this point is most welcome and useful. Like getting caught up to speed.

            I looked over the link. FF echoed my sentiments about certainty. No one will know they are right for sure until they have chest in hand.

            That said, his remarks do tell us a couple things:
            1. People have been close to the location of the treasure.
            2. FF doesn’t know which clues or how many got them there.
            3. Whatever led the searchers there, didn’t indicate to them that they were close.
            4. Whatever led them there, didn’t reveal whatever was missing for them to succeed.
            5. And, while they may have been close, whatever was missing from their “solve” wasn’t obvious enough for them to fill in the gaps.

            Is there anything I am missing?

            -Ann

      • Good one Jake. Took me a minute…I”m from Colorado. Bud is endemic in the local vernacular but I don’t think it makes anyone wiser!

      • Agreed. The concept of a home existed long before the more modern man made structure. And many solves are incorrectly interpreting ‘home’ as ‘house’ and instantly visualizing a building.

        Also, I think I met you in mid-June 2019 hiking near West Yellowstone. I was with my cousin who is from Michigan. I wasn’t willing to share my solve at the time, but I’ve since finished searching there and published my reasons online. Google my name + solve if you want to see my reasons for searching nearby.

  5. My home of brown is the home of the brown owl, which is Colorado. The picture of the bird in the nest in ttotc alludes to this. So it makes it under the brown owls nest! I have a few other home of Brown’s but that would give to much away..every clue is like a bullseye of multiple clues that zero you into a location!

    • Hazel,

      Interesting tidbit of information. Wasn’t aware of the brown owl connect. Do any of your HOB’s have anything to do with Molly Brown?

      -Ann

    • Hazel,
      On the day of a search and Mr.O is not home, how do you know it’s an owls-nest. Squirrels nest in the same tree holes and build the same stick nest. Is a searcher to stay to see who habits the home?
      In my back yard, over ten acre, there are hoot, screech, brown and barn owls with dozen of squirrel’s nest [grey and red]… not to mention the perching Turkeys at nite… lol you would go crazy trying to find hoB in that parcels of woods.

      • Seeker, it’s just one home of brown that leads you to the correct search state. There are other home of Brown’s that lead you closer to a single spot.

        • Hazel & Seeker,

          In conjunction with my preposition analysis of line 8, Hazel’s HOB could be the HOB down in the canyon (and yes I mean the entire state of Colorado) as being the one you have to pass moving southerly to reach the end that is nigh and find the blaze. In other words, such a Chase would take you into NM, but could potentially start much further north where the WWWH. Some food for thought.

          -Ann

  6. I know “Put in” has been discussed before in terms of the nautical definition as a place to enter boats into water. While I do not support this line of thought, I would entertain the possibility that “Put in” is instructional as opposed to descriptive. In which case, as an instruction, “Put in” would refer to “it” began in line five and continued down the canyon in line six. Instructionally, we would have to put “it” in below the home of Brown. And by this I do not mean the chest, but rather, by starting “it” and following “it” downward one would eventually place “it” somewhere below the home of Brown. Perhaps stated a better way you would be passing by the home of Brown on your way down whatever “it” is. (Again i.e.-a path perhaps.)

    -Ann

    • I think it should also be kept in mind that “it” could refer to a road that begins at WWWH and is taken down into a canyon past the HOB, all by car. Then from some point forward there it would be a journey by foot (“From there it’s no place for the meek”).

      Side Note: I just examined a possible avenue to this idea and discovered that the same road passes by two HOB’s. Quite ironic I believe.

      -Ann

  7. The poem and book were written before the map came out in the second book. At first, Fenn stated that the treasure was hid in the Rockies north of Santa Fe. The Canadian Rockies were still in play. Fenn also stated that a little girl in India with a map of the US Rockies could not get past the third clue. Why? IMO she had the wrong map. IMO The third clue (HOB) is in the Canadian Rockies and eliminates Canada from the search area. The founder of Waterton National Park (also buried there) is John Kootenai Brown. And in my opinion this is the HOB. Also, worth noting that Fenn mentioned his surprise that the Benchmark Maps in the second book did not include Canada.

    • Patrick,
      HoB might be connected to a reference of Canada.. being the national animal the Brown beaver. HL and WH could refer to “Water -ton” Waterton Lake, NPFTM can be considered the USA side of the RM’s as home of the brave.
      The thing about Waterton Lake is it sits in both countries… created by a glacier {WWsH} On the continental divide. Is the end of the Continental divide [ the end is ever drawing nigh ] depicting the CD trail [ the back bone of the RM’s] which bring us to the Mountains [more than 8.25 miles] N. of SF?

      The question would be; did fenn follow his clue when he hid the chest? In a theory like this?
      He would need to… he just turn right out his drive and go to the last clue and hide the chest, right?
      The elimination of Canada only says; the chest is not there. The chest lays in wait in the remaining four USA states. Surprisingly are all directly connected by the Continental Divide.

      There’s be chatter about the CDT for some time… what do you bring to the table. I’m all ears.

      • Seeker,

        I just started to the North of Molly Brown’s Home and decided to use the road that passes by it (Highway 25). This road also passes by the Home Brown in Colorado Springs. I like the CD idea but having followed the road I did, I found no end drawing nigh, except when rising in elevation. It;s not so fantastic to imagine FF wanted the Chase to take up the length of the map. Perhaps NM is near the end……

        -Ann

      • Maybe there is a name of a place in Canada that is also in one of the 4 search states. Making Canada a hint that may help with the clues. Or at least the start, 🙂

    • Patrick,

      That is an interesting idea!
      I have often wondered why he said that Canada missing from the map was a clue. Especially since the chest is obviously not in Canada. If it was, he would have to have called off the search or get a new map issued. But if Canada only affected one of the clues, the chest is still in play.

      “There’s the major clue in the book, but I don’t think it will help you find the treasure chest. I’ll tell you what the clue is. In the back of my book, there’s a map. I’ve said that the treasure chest is hidden in the Rocky Mountains. Here’s a treasure chest of the Rocky Mountains. If you knew where the treasure chest is hidden, you could find it on this map. The map stops at Canada. The Rockies keep going up there, but I said that it’s in the Rocky Mountains which would include Canada. When this book was printed, I didn’t realize that Benchmark Maps that made this map stopped at the Canadian border. That’s a clue, but it’s not going to help you much.” FF, Moby Dickens Bookshop, 11/2/2013 (42:32 minute mark).
      https://dalneitzel.com/2017/02/28/moby_dickens/

      • Lori,

        That IS interesting. Supposing the Canadian part of the Rockies had anything to do with the Chase and not necessarily the final resting place of the chest it seems that Canada would be a great place to start! Perhaps that is where WWWH begins the whole trip, which as I have mentioned elsewhere, wouldn’t surprise me if it took the entire length of the Rockies to finish. After all, it would merely, be a matter of driving which FF is known to have done. Sometimes you just have to step back and take a glance at the larger picture! (Or in this case larger chase!)

        -Ann

  8. Waterton Lake sits on both sides but Waterton National Park and John Kootenai Browns home and grave are on the Canadian side. I am in agreement with CDT after all a backbone is something foreign to the meek.

    • Patrick,

      Where then would WWWH and end on nigh lie? The HOB could just be in passing. I would imagine that such a stretched out Chase would have a rather blatant beginning and end. That would surely be nice.

      -Ann

      • Patrick,

        As a PS, perhaps te nigh end and obvious blaze is when the path turns east or west to face the sun, although FF apparently did the hiding in the afternoon. Not such a great thought after all,

        -Ann

  9. I had believed that the Home of Brown may have been a place of origin. Perhaps of a river. I took a long serious look at the origin of the Rio Puerco river. The Rio Puerco was so named because down stream it is muddy brown and like a pig. But at its origin there is the Rio Puerco Gorge. Warm Waters halt there in a canyon down. And, there are waterfalls galore. A marvel gaze. A gorgeous gorge… I still can’t rule it out. But I can’t recommend it as a search area either. It doesn’t fit the definition of not far but too far to walk. It is WAY out there.

    Another place of origin that I like is the original Picuris Pueblo at Pot Creek Cultural Site. Why Brown? I asked the governor of the pueblo and the woman working in the office, what color did the word picuris refer to. Why was it called piduris? They didn’t seem to know what I was trying to ask? So they said “Brown”. Whether they intended to or not, they told me what I desperately wanted to hear. Another searcher that lives in that area said that the title given to the governor was said to be Brown. Perhaps in honor of John Baptiste Brown. A famous frontier man that had wintered south of Taos. Which is an unvarified story that I couldn’t find or link to. I had asked the governor and the woman if there were any books available that told the history of Picuris pueblo. But, the library was being remodeled and I could not access it. So, they suggested that I go to the Indian Pueblo Cultural Center in Albuquerque. My eyes lit up as I told them that I was going there that night, because my favorite band was going to be playing there. I recommended that she go there for some great music and dancing. That was my attempt at asking her out right in front of her husband. NOT SMOOTH. And I didn’t find the sort of books that I was looking for there either. Still I am intrigued at the possibility of that area being the location of the Home of Brown.
    see my link…

    • Michael,

      What a wonderful share! This is the sort of dialogue we should be having. I was interested to know more about this John Baptiste Brown you mention. A quick search didn’t produce any direct results but I did find the following link interesting.

      https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_books/blm/ut/7/chap1.htm

      You should certainly be able to find books or information online regarding your query. If you do, and you have updates, please keep me posted. And if you know where I may be able to find out more on John Baptiste, do share.

      -Ann

      • Thanks for the link. It clarifies the person of Jean Baptiste Brown, and his mythical character.
        The link gives us good reason to consider why Browns Hole in Colorado is one of the top places for the Home of Brown. And it’s a good place to just visit and camp.

        The only book that I have found about the Picuris Pueblo can be downloaded for free on pdf.
        http://digitalcollections.smu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/sit/id/27
        PICURIS PUEBLO THROUGH TIME:
        EIGHT CENTURIES OF CHANGE AT A
        NORTHERN RIO GRANDE PUEBLO

        In that book is a description of the colors used at Picuris Pueblo in their kivas. Note the rainbow colors:

        “Rainbows In the Picuris paintings, rainbows appear only near the subsidiary ventilator on the west wall opposite the main ventilator. The rainbows are paired, one on either side of the subsidiary vent in Kivas. In Kiva A the rainbows are asymmetrical; the one on the south side has bands of white, red, green, yellow, and green in a shallow arc placed on a level with the top of the subsidiary vent shaft. The rainbow on the north has red, green, and yellow bands in a semicircular arc beginning at about the midpoint of the shaft opening. In Kiva B plaster was found only on the west wall, but that wall had been replastered and painted three times . On each layer, a rainbow was found just north of the subsidiary ventilator. On the earliest layer, the rainbow consists of a narrow black border above and below framing three wider bands of red, green, and red; the second layer has bands of yellow, black, green, and red; and the final layer is like the first. The rainbows of the first and the final layers are approximately in the same position; that on the middle layer is lower and offset a bit toward the south. In Kiva B, the south rainbow is angled at the sides rather than curved, and a single corn plant with a bird perched on top is placed between the subsidiary ventilator and the north rainbow. The south rainbow was painted in alternating bands of yellow and gray, with a color reversal in the north rainbow. In Kiva C, corn plants flank the subsidiary ventilator, with similar rainbows of red, gray, black, gray, yellow, gray, black, gray, and red next to the corn plants on either side. The corn plants are absent in Kiva D, and the rainbows consist of bands of white, red, black, and red.”

        • Michael,

          Very interesting indeed, Thanks for sharing! I was intrigued by Brown’s Hole as well. I wonder what other clues may line up there.

          -Ann

    • Michael – I remember you mentioning the Picuris Pueblo before and how they name their governor with the title of Brown. I always thought that was one of the better home of Brown ideas I’ve heard others mention.

      I hadn’t heard the Rio Puerco idea before, but I see what you mean about the area of its source not holding a lot of promise. There’s not much else out there in that area that I can see related to the other clues. That river isn’t the easiest to find on Google Earth either! At first it looked like it was way down in Albuquerque. It’s another unique idea.

      I also laughed at your goof on hitting on the married librarian! Ah well, it made a funny story and better luck next time! 😉

    • Michael,
      Thank you for sharing this.
      You said an area doesn’t fit the definition of “not far, but too far to walk”.
      Have you considered that two locations on a map might only be an inch apart, so “not far”, but still be “too far to walk”?

      Just a thought.

  10. List of potential HOBs:

    Molly Brown
    Home Brown
    Brown Hole Road
    Brown Hole

    These places cover three of the four states, I’d be interested to know if anyone has a WWWH near any of these. I would also be interested in a good source of topological maps indicating elevation and a source of glacial mappings. Please let me know where such information may most easily be obtained.

    -Ann

    • Ann and others–
      A few have mentioned Canada in above posts. I have to give credit to a poster named “Wolf”, who long ago pointed out that Arthur Roy Brown the WW1 pilot who shot down Baron Von Richtofen was a Canadian.

      At that time Canada had not been removed from the search area. To “put in below the Home of Brown” may shrink the search area to the USA. It could be that each clue shrinks the area:

      North America to the USA. The USA to four states. A clue that zeroes in on one state from there, then one county, area, etc. This may indeed be the case. Who really knows? Wolf had a complete article about Roy Brown. He did quite a bit of research back then (well before I joined the Chase).

      I just wanted to share that.

    • Nice list of Brown locations, but if Forrest’s HOB had the word ‘Brown’ in it on a map, I think it would have been found long ago.
      -IMO

      Moody

      • I’m opinionated, let me start with that….

        I’ll give my best advice as it applies here. Take note:

        2444666668888888

        What’s this number sequence?
        I just wrote 12345678 in another way. You have twist your mind to think in another aspect. My opinion. Your mileage may vary, and I’m not in possession of the chest, so there’s that. Lol. Good luck!

    • mbg,

      What is the GNIS site?

      Sparrow,

      Interesting about Arthur Brown. It may indeed narrow the search as you’ve suggested. I just posted a question in the WWWH thread asking f anyone had considered the numerical degrees of latitude at which water is normally defined to be warm (namely 37 on the low end and 40 on the high end). That would create a specific staring point north or south.

      Moody,

      Not necessarily seeing as how there are several possible places on maps with the name Brown in them or a version thereof. An yet, a typical paper map will not contain places such as Molly Brown’s Home on them. you only find that sort of info on digital maps. So while Brown may certainly refer directly to such a house (or even named geographic location) that doesn’t mean it would readily be found on any map. I did posit the question of whether anyone found a direct connect between the words in the poem and any that may appear on the map FF chose to outline the search area. And it’s been said elsewhere that FF has been known to say that you would not have to look up the words in the poem. So it seems like information gained through looking up the words would not be useful, But that’s also a big if.

      -Ann

    • Hey Ann – many of your questions can be answered by searching this blog. One place to start is “Other Searchers Stories” on the right hand side of the page – a multitude of searchers have published their solutions here. Also, to make things even easier, you can go the google search site of the blog on the bottom right of the page, just below Dal’s smiling face LOL. You may have noticed that conversations don’t “flow” here and comments get easily overlooked. Hope this helps.

      • And Ann, most definitely go to “Dal’s Adventures”. He tells an exciting tale and has searched all 4 states from the beginning. I’ve lost track of all his searches but I can’t think of too many places he hasn’t been.

        • Sally,

          Thanks! I will definitely have to do more exploring of the information available here. There is more than I can sort through for sure!

          -Ann

  11. 56 geographical names containing Brown in Montana above 5000 feet
    47 in wyoming
    110 in colorado
    47 in new mexico
    That’s raw data, in that it includes Dams, Reservoirs Mines, valleys, summits, Cemeteries, Locales, Cliffs, streams, springs, canals, populated places, buildings, gaps, trails, lakes, deltas. ridges, flats, airports, ranges, schools, and probably a few others.
    Also, HoB may be below 5000 feet, but I have not looked there.

    I think there are 193 recognized Hot Springs across the 4 states
    Of course WWWH may not be a thermal feature, and HoB may be a play on words.
    mBg

    • mBG,

      Thank you for providing some raw data! I believe you may be able to narrow both lists down by eliminating those places outside the elevation parameters given by FF. I think those were between 5,000 and 10,000 feet. Someone correct me if I am wrong. That said, you may also want to include glacial records in for WWWH, as glaciers could be where the warm waters ended since the water froze for the glaciers. I would also eliminate any WWWH that falls below (in elevation) all the of the HOBs. And finally, for now, I would eliminate the WWWH and HOBs too remote to access by car and foot by an 80 year old man with a heavy load. That should narrow it down some for the time being.

      -Ann

      • 1. Those HoB numbers are all over 5000 feet
        2. There is no need to go to HoB, so eliminating those doesn’t work

        BTW, off-topic, I don’t buy in to your glacier theory for WWWH. Not “Fenny” enough and nothing warm near a glacier. I spent some time with “does WWWH == Where Cold Waters Start” but I gave that up. I’m more of a thermal feature, basin, sink, tub, tears, transition from calm to rapids, and general metaphors kind of guy.

        mBG

        • mbg,

          Seems to me that warm waters ending would indicate some form of a limit, either physical or otherwise. The glacial reference was to the formation of certain geographical features formed by glaciers during the last ice age, not a modern day glacier. And while there may not be a need to go to the HOB, if one is so remote as to be considered not below where you need to be then those could certainly be eliminated. For instance, Cincinnati, OH (home of the Browns) is ruled out be mere location. Although, from a latitudinal stand point any home of Brown, globally, could be considered (such as has been suggested with Canada) since below such a home of Brown would merely refer to south of the latitude associated with it. Obviously if we knew who or what Brown was then that would help us understand below.

          -Ann

          • Self Follow Up-

            If WWWH is connected to HOB, as some here suggest, it is possible that below for HOB also refers to the lower limit of warm water (37 degrees typically) that WWWH may refer to. In that sense, the two could be connected. I would not bet on it though.

            -Ann

  12. In my humble opinion, the home of Brown can not be found on a map.

    Among other things, Forrest has said that people have solved the first two clues but passed, or walked, right past the others. He has said that he doesn’t think anyone has solved past the first two clues. He has also said the Indian girl could not get closer than the first two clues. I paraphrased those quotes obviously.

    IMO this means that a map can only get u to the location(s) of the first two clues. Any Brown on a map would surely be thoroughly searched for the chest and/or the following clues, and no doubt they have. You can not start in the middle of the poem, you have to start at the beginning. If you could search a map for a Brown then that would be a short cut, not to mention just being too easy.

    For a variety of reasons, I don’t have a solve for “Put in below the home of Brown”. However, knowing how not to solve a clue can prove to be a valuable asset.

    • To follow up with some basic logic, f has had a couple hundred thousand emails. I’m sure every Brown on a map has been used as part of the solves he’s received, yet he says no one has solved past the first two clues. So unless home of Brown is clue number two, it’s not on a map. And again, if it were on a map, people would skip the first clue(s) to get to it but f has said u can’t start in the middle. IMO

      • Distant Logic,

        I like your logical thinking.
        However we do have some knowledge that some [searchers] may have solved the first four clues…

        Regardless of how we can side step or rip apart the comment; Should hoB fall within said four clues, we now have a major dilemma.
        The questions I present is; what did or didn’t the searcher do? How did they proceed from the first clue to the fourth, and still got it correct as it may have been indicated to fenn.. lol and still didn’t know something?
        Unfortunately we have limited info to work with on that particular comment. But is seems to me; the process might be the killer in the action, rather than searchers didn’t decipher hoB.
        For example; I tell you to go to the Empire State Building and look south… many might think the clue is the building, or even south or NYC itself. But those things are just places… the “clue” would be “elevation” or correct spot, to view in a direct.
        The location is given, the direction is given… the instruction as to what to do ‘look’ is given… But the “elevation factor” is what is needed to actually see what it is that needs seeing. [Example; looking out the 40th floor window won’t achieve the same results].
        The next clue should be what we need to look at…
        The same can be said for fenn’s poem and why we need to be present at WWsH… to see hoB?

        I’ve said it before; it wouldn’t surprise me a bit if hoB has been visited/decipher for what it is… the question is, do we actually go to it?
        How can the first four possible clues [including hoB] be deciphered?/solved? and still be wrong?

        • I’ll clarify, I believe home of Brown is likely a geographical location and can be found on a map. I just don’t believe it has the name Brown.

          • LOL,
            I’m not big on names of places either.
            With that said; I can see how something in the poem can refer to a singular location within a larger area. For example only; No Place for the Meek could refer to the USA when looking at all of the RM’s range, line of thinking.

        • Hi Seeker, I don’t think the first four clues are being misinterpreted. I think searchers that possibly have been at the HOB, misinterpreted, the put in below part.

          • James,
            Wouldn’t that be a misinterpretation?
            Or do you consider hoB [ for example ] clue 4 with “below it” as another clue [ clue 5?] ~ the line containing two clues…
            This bring me back to an old question and a comment I posted above… how many clues give a reader an answer?
            It seems you are breaking the sentence “PIBTHOB” as two clues. I’m ok with that, I’m just curious to how you see what the other clues are prior…
            I mean, we are talking about the first four clues and IF hoB is one of them.

        • IMO what could cause f to be unsure about whether someone solved the fourth clue (assuming it’s HoB) is they revealed their location to him without explicitly telling him their solve for the fourth clue/HoB. If those who solved the first two clues walked right past the other seven clues then they also could’ve been at HoB without truly solving that clue. f did say that those who solved the first two clues didn’t know it because they didn’t understand it’s connection to the rest of the poem. It’s possible that has happened for the HoB clue as well. But I don’t think the first four clues may have been solved because someone ended up going to Brown Mountain or any other such place.

          • Hi DL,
            If “Not far, but too far to walk” is clue #3 and it’s really the distance the searchers that had solved WWWH and TIITCD (first 2 clues) could park exactly near PIBOTHOB. Then they searched around in many directions and might be were very close to the blaze and TC (200-500 feet).
            If they send Forrest parking lot location (photo or just name) and their final destination point of BOTG search around this spot Forrest knew that they started BOTG exactly from PIBOTHOB parking lot. But they never said him why they parked there. He hypothesised that it was just accidental stop during their travel along CD. Maybe they did several stops and BOTG during this CD travel.
            Problem is that after the hoB we should have only 5 clues. Thus, searchers that were at 200-500 feet are still not passes even 1-2 clues more after hoB. Can we say that when you start walking after the hoB toward TC you will not meet next clue before you approach TC within 200-500 feet? How many clues between the hoB and point that located 200-500 feet from TC?

    • I believe you are correct about HOB. It’s something specific to the area of the search and can’t be found on a map. I believe it’s a fishing hole FF has fished in the past. I have a good hunch of WWWH and the canyon. In late spring I will do more looking in depth for HOB. Hope to update more in June.

    • Eaglesabound,

      An entire mountain [ by its peak ] is a geographical, with many geographical locations all over said mountain.

      So, I’m curious to what you consider are the poems’ geographical clues?

      For example; Should NF,BTFTW be considered a clue to you and that clue involves some distances between two point… Those point have a GEO-location but the distance can’t.
      Doesn’t that make a clue to have a non-local-?- yet give up prudent information as a clue?
      “Down” can be in elevation or a direction of N E S W, for example, but those two ideas for down don’t have a Geo-location.
      Don’t some of the “9 clues” have to be directional and/or instructional in manner?

      ** Geographic location refers to a position on the Earth. Your absolute geographic location is defined by two coordinates, longitude and latitude….In geography, location and place are used to identify a point or an area on the Earth’s surface or elsewhere. The term location generally implies a higher degree of certainty than place.
      [Hence the geo-local of a mountain is considered it peak – the distance from bottom to top { base to peak } doesn’t. yet there are many locations in-between].

      • He said “to marry them to a place on a map” (Forrest Fenn quote from Mysterious Writings Six Questions with Forrest Fenn Feb 4th, 2017)

        “A place on a map” is is pretty general. I propose that routes can be considered places. So the route from WWWH to Below HoB (NF,BTFTW) would be married to a place on a map. Others may disagree, of course.

        mBG

    • EA,
      While I agree the poem’s clues correlate to a map, the “named” premise seems to contradict the information provided by the LGII Q&A (question 5):
      http://mysteriouswritings.com/six-questions-with-forrest-fenn-over-five-years-of-the-thrill-of-the-chase/ .

      IMO, there’s a wealth of discernable information in the Q&A relevant to the poem’s the second stanza. I could be wrong, but it appears designed to get searchers started in the correct place.

      Just a best guess.
      Joe

    • It is tough for me to believe that Brown is a name on a map. Unless the ‘put in below’ is wrong, how would searchers not figure it out after getting the first two clues if it was on the map. So a searcher gets two clues, and there is something on the map nearby with the name of Brown, and they miss their put in spot?

      • Agreed, Aaron: anything with the actual name “Brown” on a map would be far too easy. And if “Put in below the home of Brown” is a clue (and I’d say the odds of that are very high), and it’s not the 2nd clue (also very high odds, IMO), then something has to be tricky about it that prevented two-clue solvers from quickly becoming 3- or 4-clue solvers.

        • A note on Brown-

          Clearly the name “Brown” does not appear on the map FF has provided us to show the possible search area, and yet “home of Brown” certainly refers to somewhere or something in that area.

          -Ann

        • If one knew Brown, wouldn’t they go to the chest?

          Why not just search everything named Brown in the RM’s if it is a name on a map? If we could do this then the statements about needing to know wwwh would be irrelevant would they not?

          • Eagles – Just a weird thought – What if hoB, Heavy Loads and the blaze were – in fact – one and the same? Now that would be thinking out of the box wouldn’t it? Just musin’ – JDA

          • Hi Aaron,
            I’m sure that Forrest is too smart to include in poem the place that could be found on the map via searching name Brown. Brown is coded name and only Forrest knows what it is.
            He said that knowing who or what is Brown will immediately reveal TC location (maybe even without knowing what is WWWH).
            IMO, but each searcher should have both WWWH and the hoB before BOTG.

          • To All,

            FF’s comments regarding HOB and going straight to the treasure (I suggest re-watching the video) suggests to me that Brown is indeed connected directly to a pinpointable named location. Whether “Brown” is in the name or not I cannot say. But clearly if we know who or what Brown refers to we would know where to go. Something all should keep in mind when considering a potential solve. I would venture to say that such thought would rule out things like brown trout or brown shoes (Or any other ambiguous reference for brown). Brown is a clear identifier. What sort of identifier I cannot say, but an identifier nonetheless.

            -Ann (IMO)

            Side Note: I should just change my name to IMO so that I don’t have to remember to disclaim!

          • EB, hard to believe the PIBHOB spot is far from the chest considering searchers have come so close to the chest with only 2 clues solved. What are your thoughts?

          • Andy S ~ *He said that knowing who or what is Brown will immediately reveal TC location (maybe even without knowing what is WWWH).*

            Umm Errr not exactly… in fact ‘who’ was never mentioned nor the ‘immediately reveal’ … well, anything.

        • we can all agree that line is the clue but hoB is not the clue we’re looking for mirror it find Brown to find home to find the put in below ? what was put in below the hoB is on the map. ff said Brown is not a person, Brown is not trout baer bever ect. that leaves a place and not on map is not a place. now it’s not a man made strucster. The WWWH is the answer to this questoin. with out that you have nothing. but I’ll give you something to think about is Brown a people not a person?

          • Richard,
            I’ve read a lot of quotes and I’ve got a pretty decent memory but I don’t ever remember him saying Brown wasn’t a person. I’m not saying I believe that to be an inaccurate statement, I’m just really curious if you had a sourced quote that confirmed it. If so that would change or narrow down the idea for me. I just did my own attempt at searching for quotes that appeared to say that and I had no such luck. The only thing I found was this one that seems to imply the opposite or at the very least, leave the idea wide open.

            4/2/2013 HDNET World Report

            LONDON: In the poem, which you say has these nine clues, there are references to water, there is a reference to Brown’s house. Who’s Brown?

            FENN: There’s references to wood.

            LONDON: But you didn’t answer my question, who is Brown?

            FENN: Well, that’s for you to find. If I told you that, you’d go right to the chest.

    • Aaron,
      Forrest never said that the searchers that were the closest were the same searchers that deciphered the 1st 2 clues…IMO of course..

      • I guess we have to debunk this idea again:

        video done by Julius Brighton 5/20/15 with clips of Dal searching and talking…and interview clips with Fenn talking. It is nicely done and informative. At the 6:25 mark or so You can watch Fenn say…”There have been a few people within 500′. I think there have been people within a couple hundred feet. They figure the first two clues, but they don’t get the third and fourth and they go right past the treasure chest.

    • Linda … searchers on this message board don’t like to talk about parking. But I agree with you that “there is a parking lot near by”.

      Ken (in Texas) 🙂

  13. Well If I follow Forrest childhood I would say as an angler Home of Brown would referance Water, the home of Brown trout?

  14. begin it – by looking for wwwh – and its at the bottom of a canyon – canyon down – its not far but to far to walk -and its below the hob

      • Frank I am listening and so very sorry to hear that. You’ve been thru a lot these past few years. I hope your health improves.

        • Thank you sally – that’s nice of you to say that – id be satisfied with at lest one day with out pain but what ever God gives me ill take ill take the pain if its Gods will – just to be here a little longer with my family – I all so wish you good health and happiness – again thank you for your well wishes— frank

          • Sending you well wishes and hopefully a more speedy recovery Frank . I’m so sorry to hear that you went through that .

          • Veronica – thank you for the get well wishes ill be ok – because of people like you and Sally makes me want to keep fighting thank you

        • Sorry Dal I know this is for hob place to comment but I feel I need to answer paulette . they operated on me twice and one was when they removed my larynx . I can not take another operation.what the dr, do to remove the cancer is more painful then the sickness. be glad your dad tried .give him at least that much . he was also a strong man to take it that far — frank

  15. me Big Guy, the last hob thread, I posted this ATF:
    Mr. Fenn,
    You have said to read the poem and read TTOTC to help solve for the 9 clues. We all know there are many options to choose from regarding, Brown, hoB, wwh,and blaze hinted at in the book.
    My question is, “In the book, do you also, in a more subtle way, tell which is the correct answer to one or all of the above?” ~BW
    No I don’t madam, sorry. f

    You’re reply:
    The ATF just says that of all the HoB,’s etc hinted at in the TTOTC book, the book doesn’t give you a hint regarding which option (hint) is correct. But, HoB could be hinted at in the book, or not.
    I’m confused by your answer. From what I see, it says:
    do you also, in a more subtle way, tell which is the correct answer to one or all of the above?
    Says nothing about a hint. Is that your interpretation or am I posting the wrong wording to that ATF?
    He is not saying the correct answer to an option, he is saying, straight forward, if f is giving the answer to one of the above, hoB, Brown, blaze, wwwh.
    I don’t know where you get that f is referring to some options or hints with his answer. The question is asked, “do you also”, followed by telling us the correct answer.
    If he is not putting the correct answer to those things in the book, then he is not giving the answer to those things.
    You then go on to comment about “I’ll go so far as to say that if you don’t have an “on the map” geographical HoB in context with your other clue solutions/locations, then you should stay home”.
    Maps will help with where you are going, but you are forgetting that all we need is the poem, and the poem only. That would mean before getting a map to see this hoB, you would already know the name or place of hoB, if there was an answer to it. Which is where the ATF comes in, there is no answer.
    Therefore, you will not know what or exactly where the hoB is, and there is nothing out there that will give you that answer.
    “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem”.
    The poem is in the book.
    are the answers to wwwh, hoB, Brown, or the blaze in the book?
    NO.
    Since this is the case, a different method is needed to find those answers, instead of trying to solve them. I think you are confusing the need to solve clues to get your path. This isn’t entirely true.
    “I want sweaty bodies out there looking for my treasure- they just have to FIND the clues”.

    https://clubthrifty.com/forrest-fenn-an-interview/
    Holly: What tips do you have for those wanting to find the treasure?
    Forrest: Here is what I would do. Read my book in a normal manner. Then read the poem over and over and over, slowly – thinking. Then read my book again, this time looking for subtle hints that will help solve the clues.

    No mention this early in the game about marrying the clues to a map. Just solving the poem.
    And with that, we know that f has not given the answers in a subtle way. The answers are also not in the poem, since the poem is in the book. I post all this because it brings up Seeker’s ol’ question, “are we reading the poem correctly”?
    If you have an answer to hoB beforehand, then at it’s core, it has to be a guess.
    And those who guess in the chase will return with smaller wallets.
    Same is true for the other things mentioned, the problem is, that searchers continue to read the poem incorrectly. That the only way to put an “x” on a map is to solve for clues that they have no idea what they even are. Everybody is doing it, and that violates what f has said. A new way to interpret the poem is needed.
    The worse thing a searcher can do is try to solve clues instead of trying to solve the poem. The poem is what needs to be followed precisely. Why do you think f said the minimum amount of clues needed to find the chest is ONE, the last one? That means that the previous 8 don’t need to be solved to find the chest. They will be followed, because some of them, you will not know the answer to.
    Sorry mBG, your answer is coming from your interpretation, and not the actual words used by f.
    And, don’t get it twisted, a map is a good help, so is the book, (minus the poem), and so is GE. But at the core of the chase, only one thing is needed. And that one thing does not have all the answers.
    My advice to new searchers, forget that f told us there are 9 clues, forget using a map at the start, don’t even need the internet. Just have the poem, and only the poem, and come up with a way to decipher it. The second you need to reach for any other info, then realize you are taking yourself away from the poem. If you can find a way to solve the poem, then GE, a map, any and all outside info can be used to confirm your poem solve.
    That’s it. The thing is, that is a very difficult task, but if you need to use anything but the poem to articulate a solve to someone else, then, IMO, you simply have a wrong solve. Everybody has worn out solving clues, a new way to read the poem is needed. That is what a new searcher should spend their time on. Just the poem.

    • poisonivy,

      Well said!! I am new to all of this and from what little i have encountered thus far, I would agree with your sentiments. FF’s poem is like the map Mikey finds in the Goonies. That’ s all one needs to find the chest! If it weren’t then no one would have been able to find the chest prior to any other resources becoming available, including those produced after the poem. Interjecting all of that certainly muddies the waters. The poem alone ought to give us what we need. I posted elsewhere remarks about not looking at the words as they appear to us and our familiarity with them, but in the context of what they mean to FF since he is the author. That seems to me an appropriate way to render the poem, albeit a difficult one. Everything else just seems to be a lot of extraneous noise. And yes, this is all IMO.

      -Ann

      • Ann,
        I’ve said before, I like the way you think.
        FF does say we need the book and the poem (the poem is in the book).
        He does say to read the book and to read the poem as though they were separate tools.

        And as far as all that “extraneous noise” I agree. Information overload.

        ” If I were a new searcher, I would study the poem and not use the blogs as a rule book.” – FF
        http://mysteriouswritings.com/2020-mw-questions-with-forrest-fenn-the-new-era-and-beginning-of-legendary-status/

        • Lori,

          Thanks! I’m not sure I’ll ever get around to reading the book, but that doesn’t take away from the thrill. I know I haven’t gotten to you yet via email. I will as soon as I have time. Have a location you may be interested in, whether it’s a solve or not. Has some ridiculous fits with “my way of thinking.”

          -Ann

        • I think both of you are well on your way, on the right track. The big thing is to just find that niche to solving the poem. That’s obvious info. The poem is what drives this whole chase. Solving that lets everything fall in place. After finding your solve, then the other stuff could come into play as you police your own solve. Then searchers can use their time to solve ATF’s and the like, In fact, I think the hints are more important then the actual clues. Wherever our solve takes us, the clues will follow each other anyway, using the hints to recognize clues is huge.
          Taking the poem at face value is obviously wrong, there must be something underlying.
          Lori, to your other inquiry, every single line has instructions. At least for me. You can see instruction words, words within words, letters, abbreviations, in every line. That is why I posted my answer. Now if your solve says otherwise, then don’t listen to me, stick to your guns until you either prove or disprove.
          I have a feeling that one day, when you both share a write up with the community, the only thing I will need in front of me will be the poem. I might finally be able to read a solve passed the first clue guesses that usually appear, good luck to you two.

          • I totally agree, poisonivey,

            I believe I have my first solve completed and will now work on others. I would like to have three or more possibles before I go BOTG this summer.

            What I found interesting (without disclosing too much), is that once I found the right area and got going in the right direction, everything just fell into place. Every line of the poem makes sense without needing to force anything. It even explained why others have searched (and are still searching) this area and keep coming up empty-handed.

            I don’t know what my blaze will be yet, but I know exactly where to find it, within a matter of a few yards.

            The funny thing is that the solve just sort of hit me in the face. Using only the book and the poem and Google Earth, but what put it together was comments and quotes made right here on this forum. By us exploring ideas and disproving or supporting with quotes from interviews, I got my a-ha moment.

            Thank you one and all. Now, let’s get back to work! 🙂

          • So right Lori, it will all fall into place so easily.
            When you are out, looking for the blaze, maybe also look for a “marvel gaze”. Marvel gaze may be a physical thing in which when you look up from, you would find the blaze. Keep that in the back of your mind.
            The blaze is going to be something out of the ordinary in finding, IMO. It just may be possible that a searcher will never see the blaze, but see the “hint” that uncovers it.
            About the poem solve, there are just times that pop out that you just know you could not have known or thought of. The times when it must have been done by design. there are a lot of “ah-ha” moments, but when you know you’re working on something that was done by design, it’s educating. I’m happy that the poem has shown me how not-so-smart I really am. I wouldn’t be so confident in the end.
            For me, the poem gave up letter values, which in turn gave up most everything. The “x’ on a map, the coordinates. Many don’t see it, but luckily I’m just dumb enough to find it, and figure it out. For me, those coordinates, the almost end spot, could be found on a map, which in turn, gives up the start place, in which “hints” and ‘ATF’s” play a huge roll. I only say this so as to show that just solving the poem is possible.
            In the end, I think you will only settle on one solve. When you know your spot, everything else is just coincidence. Good luck to you.

    • Bohuslaner,

      Great Brown! What’s the latitude there? And good question. I may do some . . . I was going to say finagling with that, but that’s not right! I’ll try to look into it.

      -Ann

  16. A Note on Brown-

    Has the following already been discussed in this thread:

    Does anyone find it ironic that FF wrote a book with a poem in it sparking a treasure hunt not unlike a very popular author around the same time named Dan Brown?

    -Ann

    • Hey Ann – Control+F will give you a “search in page” capability. You can then search this thread and all of the archived HOB threads as well. Dan Brown has been discussed multiple times but I can’t remember when or where. I’m not sure if you have found TarryScant.com yet but that site is also a good reference. Bottom of this page links to other searchers’ blogs/websites. Hope this helps and good luck!

  17. A Not on Brown-

    So I was just a little while ago looking into some thoughts on Brown and I discovered the thread on Brown Canyon. I actually read all of that thread. It is a slightly older thread, but the thought process of those posting seemed to me to be a bit more in tune with “down to earth” information as opposed to much postulating I find elsewhere. While I am not convinced Brown Canyon is HOB, the thread certainly as interesting. I wonder if any of the searchers there are considered by FF to be among those who were “close” to the chest. I have a very different reason for such a suggestion, but seeing as that thread just sort of cut off, I was wondering if there is any news since in terms of Brown Canyon and HOB.

    -Ann

  18. if you are at home of brown – there is water if you want to go fishing – you have a blaze – for cooking- there is wood to burn-and you have humo(smoke ) and you have a pit to do all that

  19. I wonder if the darn box is found if canyon down and home of brown could be a park. Alot of people have devoted time to searching for this brown guy. I’m certain forrest’s brown must be next a national park but isn’t one yet.

  20. @poisonivy
    In this comment I am narrowly addressing just this ATF, where we may have some differences:
    Mr. Fenn,
    You have said to read the poem and read TTOTC to help solve for the 9 clues. We all know there are many options to choose from regarding, Brown, hoB, wwh,and blaze hinted at in the book. My question is,
    “In the book, do you also, in a more subtle way, tell which is the correct answer to one or all of the above?” ~BW
    No I don’t madam, sorry. f

    As I basically said, I take this to mean that there are many options hinted in the book (for HoB, etc) but there is nothing telling which of them is the correct one, **if any**.

    Forrest is only answering “No I don’t madam, sorry”
    to the specific question “do you also, in a more subtle way, tell which is the correct answer to one or all of the above”
    where “all of the above” refers to the options that are “hinted at in the book”.

    So, in summary, he is accepting that there are many options hinted at in the book, but he also saying that the book will not tell you which of the many options is/are correct.

    I am in no way commenting on the validity or usefulness of anything in the book, but just on the specific ATF you referenced and what it means to me.

    I’ll explain further, in a separate comment, why I think you need a geographical, named, HoB on a map before you leave home.

    mBG

    • That is interesting if you know how to read the poem it tells you how to do it. “Put in below the home of Brown.” you can: put in, below the, home of, Brown or put in below, the home of Brown. this is a three part clue, as so what is the clue is it the put in or home or Brown and it set up as mirrored look at it as Brown, home, put in below. the fenny thing about this is WWWH if you have correct tells you what it is. and as to the book telling you the correct one I don’t think it has the correct one in it.
      but J. H. Sharp does, the key is no man made structure, hum what is a home with no man made structure? hint in the book to HOB: the summers off, we spent are summers camping, one summer when we where camping, ect. J. H. Sharp painted Indain’s winter camps and summer camps. home with out a man made structure Indain camp site. ok we got home now what is Brown? and put in below? and which one is the clue we’re looking for?

      • Richard,

        It seems we only have 3 option for hoB in the attempt to identify what it could refer to.
        ~If WWsH is known on a map and/or being on site, from this point on we can discover hoB…
        ~IF the book, in a subtle way, give thought to it an idea. {example; I’m not sure if fenn ever called a “Griz” a [term he used in the book] by the term “Brown Bear” in the book… is the lack of, helpful? IDK}
        ~The other option is “home” however, home also implies a place of habitation. This give a variety of ideas. A place in which someone/’something’ habits. A place where someone or something is located [regionally]… a country for example. In both those cases the areas can be small or huge. But in keeping with the “idea” hoB should lead us to the chest… it would seem the reference is small, maybe?. Yet, like you implied we would need to know what “Brown” is as well to understand what home might reference.

        I think there could be a 4th option because of Brown being deliberately capitalized. It may represent a ‘title’ of something vs. ‘just’ a place, and still be both. Example; the difference between “king” and “King” or eagle vs. Eagle, idea.
        Should it represent something in the idea of title, we would need to know what it could represent for a geographical location, related to home as a habitation.

        One Idea is, Canada’s national animal the brown beaver. Canada [removed] was supposed to be a “clue” in the tftw book, right? A book who’s “title” is small caps. LOL call them subtle hints if ya like, but in this idea it kinda point to understanding what “I give you title to the gold” [hint?]~ Brown as a title because it’s deliberately capitalized for a reason

        The idea kinda makes sense when looking at the poem in the same manner of geographical places…
        “No place for the meek” ~ USA? home of the brave?
        “No place for the meek” ~ The back bone of the RM’s? or the CDT. “in the mountains N. of SF”
        Wood is know as ‘being in the saddle’ which can relate to saddle as a mountain passage. “Brave [USA side] of a mountain passage, below where the brown beaver is held as a nation’s symbol ~ title for-?- below the home of Brown?
        The idea might be difficult to bring about from reading the poem in this manner, but it certainly not impossible to conclude. {LOL depending on how you want to read the poem as}

        Here’s the question; If any of the above is possible… could the first clue be just as large [ geographically ] But only brought to a singular location when most of the clues are studied in this manner? Knowledge of geography?

        **There are many WWsH in the RM’s and nearly all are N. of SF…. could WWsH depict the watershed of the RM’s, and learned of by geography of the area, **in combination of the clues,** that places a search within arms reach of where they want to be at?

        In the explanation above a person would be on the CDT, below Canada which might give the idea of what “Just Heavy Loads an Water High may represent? Waterton lake-?- WWsH, out of the many? A Lake? So, WWsH relates to the CD and a lake on the CD, for a conclusion of what and where WWsH. hoB now brings you to the correct one, line of thinking.

        Fenn said we can’t go looking for later clues… but he never said we shouldn’t understand what they are about. He tells us to read the poem over and over and study it, and we need to “learn” WWsH. We’ll if all the information to find the chest is in the poem… shouldn’t we utilize all the clues and entire poem to learn where WWsH is and what it references???

        The questions now are… does hoB [and other clue’s references], in any manner, assist with “learning the first clue”?
        Or are we just left with manufacturing ideas for WWsH? [be it a lake, waterfall, hot spring, geyser, merging rivers, snow cap peaks, glaciers, warm as a color like; Yellowstone lake, or some bizarre shape of a fish on a map, tears, an unscrambled name of a watery place, a bridge over troubled waters, etc etc. and hopefully discover hoB [and other clues] after?

        We are supposed to follow the clues in the order they are presented, but don’t we need the entire poem to relay what anything might be, before we can follow anything?
        IMO, things not “deliberately place” is the same as “very subtle”… they are of help when the reader is thinking the right thoughts. And I’m full circle that there is an illusion in the poem… mainly because readers do one of two things… a desire to over simplify or over complicated by unknowns.
        So, do we only seek the answer to one clue at a time starting with the first… or does the poem actually have “all the information”?

        • Seeker what if Home of Brown was not the home that the Beaver built, but the Creek where he builds his home and paddles around, ie a Beaver Creek, and what if the water that fills it flows from a Basin where more tears metaphorically are shed over than any thing else by people on planet earth, call it a Spiritual Place, a Basin in Spanish, or can you say Cruces? A Wilderness Basin named for? Sc Book 237, I rest my case.

          TT

          • Get on Google Earth and type “Cruces Wilderness Basin”
            what is that funny looking animal just above it formed by the Rail Road Tracks entering the tunnel at Garfiled Memorial, is that a Buffalo, as big as a Mt Rushmore image? See the border at 36.98 degrees by 106.3000.
            TT

          • What is ff favorite animal Ardi? Bison or a Buffalo? Cynthia caught the Beaver by the tale in SC Book video see it on her site, Education of Ardi is an eye opener and removes camouflage that surrounds a beaver mound and its home, the creek.

            TT

          • TT,
            A lot of your WhatIfs don’t work for me personally.
            Knowing Spanish does tell me the poem is in plain English.
            I never heard of Brown anything implying Bison, nor do I consider anything made made related to any clue… Including train rails or telephone poles or tunnels or Molly Brown’s home etc.

            But as I attempted to explain, the poem talks about “title” to the gold and how it maybe a consideration for a clue that is represented by a title for Brown being capitalize… That help with a geography location.
            To clarify… Brown, in this case, represents a possible location when all the clues form in the same location…

            That path will not be direct…. Certainty of the location before hand… Line of thinking.
            How do we learn of where and what the first clues is… In the poem or external from the poem?

          • To further the Brown = chest theory, we can link things in the poem to the treasure being Brown. We have “treasures bold” which one could say the B in brown is bold because it is capitalized. Brown is capitalized so it can be linked to title. Title two the gold. Two things here that link the capital letter in Brown to the treasure chest. Again this all speculation, but I could see how it can play out.

        • Seeker, you asked:
          “The questions now are… does hoB [and other clue’s references], in any manner, assist with “learning the first clue”?”

          It is my opinion that the first, and to some degree the fifth stanza, helps with the first clue.

          You also said “But as I attempted to explain, the poem talks about “title” to the gold and how it maybe a consideration for a clue that is represented by a title for Brown being capitalize… That help with a geography location.
          To clarify… Brown, in this case, represents a possible location when all the clues form in the same location…”

          To me this sounds similar the chest being Brown theory. All of the clues pointing to the home of Brown? Of course there is nothing to indicate that he did, but if FF decided to name the chest Brown, because of it’s color, then this could hold true. Not saying I buy this but just a thought.

      • seeker your right WWWH is every thing with out that you have nothing. WWWH does tell you the story or gives you the base story put with ff quotes and stories and fillin the blank spots with what ifs you start finding little things that set ff to it till you find Forrest Fenn secret out then you have WWWH. in all that it give you little hits to the rest of the clues.

  21. For those who might consider the Brown = Brown Trout argument, I came across an interesting post on a Pennsylvania fly fishing forum. Interestingly, the topic of discussion was cold-water vs warm-water. Since “Where Warm Waters Halt” is somehow connected (via “Canyon”) to a place “below the Home of Brown”, if brown does refer to brown trout, then the relevance of water temperature needs to be understood. I think it is also relevant that fly fishing guides (FF and his father) would know this in order to be proficient in their capacity as guides.

    Here is the post from 2010: (http://www.paflyfish.com/forums/Open-Forums/Conservation/Cold-Water-Streams-vs-Warm-Water-Streams/6,16118.html)

    Practically speaking, “coldwater fish” consist of trout, salmon, whitefish, and grayling- all of which prefer water temperatures below 70 degrees.

    Brown trout and rainbow trout can tolerate water up to the low-mid 70s, but it isn’t good for them.

    Brookies really want temps below 65 degrees F. And 68 is about the limit for them. Some sources say 70, but I’ve never known of a wild brookie stream that ran that warm, even on the hottest day of the summer.

    “Warmwater fish” can tolerate cool water temperatures, but they prefer habitat conditions with water temperatures between 70 and 80 degrees during their prime growing season, in the spring and summer. (Stream water rarely gets much over 80 degrees, and most warmwater game fish prefer temperatures slightly cooler- more like 72-75 degrees.)

    Therefore, a cold water stream habitat typically remains below 70 degrees year round.

    A warm water stream habitat typically runs between 70 and 80 degrees in the late spring and summer.

    A stream like Penn’s Creek above Weikert is considered a cold water habitat even though the average water temperature often rises above 70 degrees in the summer, because it has enough stream tributaries and springs contributing water at colder temperatures to allow coldwater fish to hold over and survive. But almost all anglers decline to fish Penn’s in the heat of July and August, because the temperatures are typically too marginal for trout to survive the strain of being caught.

    The biggest reason for the difference between coldwater and warmwater fish species is that the coldwater species require more dissolved oxygen in the water, and colder water retains more dissolved oxygen than warm water. Trout and salmon prefer a mix of around 10 parts oxygen to a million parts water. Warmwater fish are fine with 5 ppm (parts per million) or even a bit less.

    Oxygen “dissolves” in water from the air above the surface- which is why trout often like to hold in plunge pools and pocket water, because fast currents like that pull air bubbles into the water and help to dissolve more oxygen. But bubbling rapids alone aren’t enough to support trout- the water temps have to stay low enough that the water can store enough oxygen to keep the levels around 10ppm. Trout start to die off below around 5ppm DO, that’s about the bare minimum for survival for them. They’re basically gasping for breath at that point. A heat-stressed trout in summer usually settles low in the stream without moving much of anything except for it’s gills, which fan in and out as if it’s panting for breath. Which is pretty much what’s happening.

    This is one reason why anglers like to carry stream thermometers.

    Thermometers can also tell when the best feeding and insect hatching temps are. Trout are usually most active in water between 50 and 65 degrees. 55-60 degrees F is about perfect. Smallmouth bass seem to like it best right around 70-75 degrees F.”

    I found this interesting as it can help to identify what locations might truly be a Home of Brown (trout), and which might be just a guess.

    – Lori

    • Lori, you are doing a good job of understanding some important fundamentals in the search, I commend you for it. I do not know if you have seen the video from Cynthia regarding SC Book 246, a childrens book written by Forrest for his Great Grand daughter, Ardi. Some interesting thought come out when the subject of a beaver is addressed, see the video on Cynthia’s site and think Brown Beaver might mean a home, like a Beaver Creek maybe? Now find a basin that drains into a comfortable little Beaver Creek that has a Spanish Spiritual message and you might think again about BROWN TROUT. I know there is a least two, but only one has a put in that saves you from a long walk uphill in either direction.

      TT

      • Thanks TT,

        I have not looked at any of the Scrapbooks, Vignettes, etc.
        I am a bit of a purist and trying to stick with using TTOTC, the poem, and mapping tools only to start with. Everything else is a lot of noise. I am not saying it has no value and is certainly entertaining, inspirational, and even educational. But for me, it is a distraction.

        Now that I have my first solve ready for BOTG, I do use information from interviews if they are direct quotes from FF to either confirm or deny any clues I may think I have uncovered.

        From what I have seen on various blogs, some of the blog writers/managers (as opposed to subscribers), are equally clueless and, in some cases, spreading misleading or incorrect information. So “journalists” have very little credibility with me. I only pay attention to how FF answers their questions.

        I am here because Dal is quite good at helping us separate fact from fiction. Jenny Kile’s website at Mysterious Writings has a nice layout for finding direct FF quotes that are not on TarryScant.com, but sometimes I wonder about the questions she asks. And Toby? OMG. Don’t get me started.

        Anyway, this was longer than intended, but sort of explains my method.

        -Lori

  22. Wonder if Forrest had said “put in below the home of ….Green or Black or Red or “Purple” – would it have made a difference?

  23. SC Book 238 “After Fawn died in childbirth, Paul moved to Rimrock in the Verde Valley of Arizona. His ranch house was on Beaver Creek and when the water was up, a car couldn’t cross it. So Paul would come get you in his tractor.” Coincidence? Maybe.

    • I’m curious as to your thoughts, wwwamericana. There have been stories of Mr. Fenn mentioning backing up in a vehicle in a parking lot. Seems the situation put him in a tight/close situation. There’s a scrapbook about owning some kind of animal, rattlesnakes, he driving and turning around when he saw the animals drove the hands up a tree and was pleased (paraphrasing).

      • Sorry PDenver, just saw this post of yours.
        I was thinking about it as returning the way you came or as in something being behind you. Crazy as it sounds, I also believe it is put in above the HOB. Lots of stumbling blocks in my window but to me they spell out a possible solve. I know……you are thinking “what in the blue blazes is that silly frog talking about.”

          • I can’t speak for Americana but a previous interpretation for me involved the Hob being a fishing hole. This hole was located on a body of water that flowed south to north. So while the actual point on the map was north of hob, it was in fact downstream from its location. This logic would apply regardless of talking about the act of placing the chest in its resting place or talking about locating a boat launch.

          • And below, well below other features. I didn’t check depth of said hole, but found it looks like it could swallow a car. I postulate it might be lower spot of entire area although to back that up id have to do a whole lot of surveying.

          • PD – If a house or a rock is sitting on a slope, facing downhill and you wanted to get to something on the backside of it or down below it, would you not be going up to get there?

            Or if the “thing” sits to the North, but what you are looking for is on the South side would that also not be considered “below” even if the south side slopes up?

  24. HoB – Agua Caliente Creek, San Jose, NM ; Note the Trestle Bridge there like the one he jumped off of in Temple, TX. That is his Alpha.

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