There’ll Be No Paddle Up Your Creek…


This is the place to discuss the line from the poem:
There’ll be no paddle up your creek
Many believe it’s one of the nine clues. Others think not.
What’s your take on what this line tells us?












231 thoughts on “There’ll Be No Paddle Up Your Creek…

    • I don’t try to read into Forest’s clues. I believe this is
      one. It is a creek one that is too low for a canoe/boat/kayak. Also it indicates a direction to move.
      Straight forward no mystery….well??? Is a creek a creek when water only flows at certain times?

    • Astree, I agree with your amped-up idea here, at least partially, but I’m not sure if you put it here in this discussion bc you believe it is all one clue from “ there’ll be no paddle” all the way to “ water high” ? And if so where does the creek-real or not-fit in? Are you saying creek and water high are the same thing?

  1. Interesting… there’ll is a contraction which adds LL and “no paddle” can be rear ranged to “nope, add L”.

  2. No paddle up your creek =
    You don’t need a boat or paddle, dry creek
    Up= go north
    Your creek = on land owned by the American people..
    IMO of course

    • Eaglesabound I don’t think that the creek is dry – when the water from the creek gets to the bottom of the canyon – and it meets with the other body of water – that is what makes wwwh – to go up, is to go west leaving wwwh below hob that’s my opinion

        • Couldn’t no paddle also describe the waters high spot? As in the water is too high to paddle due to rapids or a waterfall.

          • Aaron -I think that waters high is a body of water , and it is also a direction for you to go north to the blaze – waters high is just a way to send you to the most northern part of this body of water where your next clue would be the blaze , I don’t see any place in the poem where it says that you have to get in the water , my reason is that he drove ,past all the clues until he got to where he parked this is just what I get from the poem and its just an opinion and nothing more

  3. I believe the answer is June. But how do we use this information, dear searchers? It’s a great puzzle….

      • By reading the book and using my imagination. I don’t believe the clues are boots-on-the-ground directions.

          • Ff worked on the poem for fifty years or something, (i don’t have the right data, jda might), but maybe it was a design for living in a way. Something that can be used on a daily basis, like the part “as I go alone in there”, I can only go through a doorway by myself?

    • I had this as a solution awhile back. It worked in the location that was once my #1 solve, but ultimately I rejected the solution for another reason and I never went BOTG. Nice to see someone is thinking the way I do.

      • IMO, it’s just a creek you can’t paddle up. A creek yes, but with not enough flow/ rocks preventing the possibility of using a canoe/ raft or the like to get upstream.

        • Shanan, in my opinion, is NOT UP, But DOWN. You start WWWH and go DOWN the creek, paddle or no paddle. DOWN NFBTFTW until your in the cold. Waters high could mean that the waters are DEEP, and in the Cold. Deep enough to swim and still a home of Brown (trout)Maybe at the base of a waterfall, but not necessarily. From there there’s only the blaze and Elusive to retrieve. IMHO
          Great luck with your BOTG

          • If I were to think of waterfalls and heavy loads I think of bronze and a wholly sh## It feels like a few more steps could be the last ones . But what a beautiful view

  4. Good Morning, Fennsters!
    I am somewhat new to “The Chase” and therefore cautious about putting my opinions public, but I desperately want The Chest to be found. As I am a little gray-haired lady living in Virginia and have a husband in his 9th decade, my chances of roaming the Rockies are limited. But… today’s query IMHO is exactly the most important line in the poem after WWWH. Further, I believe that “UP” is the key word. I believe the area where the treasure is hidden has water that flows over your head (or at least would have at one time in history). I think “No paddle up your creek” refers to the tie flumes. This would explain heavy loads and water high…but also the “No paddle” as sometimes the men at the tie camps in the mountains would ride canoelike boats down the tie Flumes to town and did not need or take a paddle. I further believe that the word UP helps a searcher find the blaze…but not in the sense most people think…not something painted or scratched on a rock or tree. I believe the treasure is located a the base of a cliff near the tie flumes and that you have to be standing on the edge of the cliff where you will find the blaze at your feet and the chest is directly below several hundred feet.
    Of course all of this is conjecture, since I have no BOTG…but I do have other clues from the poem that feed this theory.
    I would like to hear from others why these ideas would not fit the poem….LL

    • Hi, L. Lanier – I think the main problem I see with your idea is standing on the edge of a cliff in order to solve the poem. Forrest has been pretty adamant that the treasure is not hidden in a dangerous location (I know in your case, the treasure itself might not be, but if you have to look over the edge of a cliff to find the location, I would consider that the same thing). Forrest has also said that he would not have a problem taking a small child to the hidey spot, and I’d have reservations taking a child along a cliff’s edge.

      There’s also some talk about man-made objects not having to do with any of the clues depending on how one interprets some of Forrest’s quotes, so that may affect the idea of the tie flume (or a canal or irrigation ditch).

      Just my 2 cents.

      • FF has said the treasure location isn’t associated with any ‘man made structures ‘
        Not my opinion but a recollection.

    • Hi L. Lanier

      Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I think Blex pretty much covered what you may want to rethink about your solve. But don’t get discouraged (I have had my balloon deflated on several occasions!). Go back with this feedback and retrace your “steps” and see where you may need to adjust. Don’t ever be afraid to post your thoughts. Every once in a while, someone is a bit “blunt”, but it’s all meant to be constructive criticism. You can learn a lot here.

      And here’s to you and your husband in his 9th decade! 🙂

      • Thank you for the encouragement, GeyserGirl! I will certainly rethink my potential solve in light of these comments.

    • L. Lanier, well done!

      This is truly eye-opening. This idea escaped me up until you posted this.
      A lumbering flue fits the hint/clue nicely. Water flows in one direction. And it could travel for miles. ( No paddle up your creek) Imho the flue would be dry now from disuse. Also, it fits well with HLAWH. A place where loggers would amass their cut trees for transport via the flue. Interesting.


      • Thanks for considering my thoughts on this. The particular creek I am thinking of with Flumes has its headwaters just below 10,200’….which is certainly a strange coincidence too, in my opinion.

  5. The dreaded “There’ll be no paddle up your creek” line. If you ain’t chicken, it’ll take you on a wild goose chase!

  6. I think it just means that the creek is just not deep enough to paddle a boat on, just basically runs along the surface of the ground. However, there could be deep pool of water along the way and even waterfall that might be considered high places.

  7. I think it simply means it’s on public land and you won’t get in trouble if you go there.
    I think it also means it’s in, or close to a wadi.

  8. The line reads “your creek” so obviously its your creek that you go up. And their has to be multiple creeks because of the paddle word. You don’t go up that one.

    • I agree with going up “your creek” and there is multiple creeks to choose from, it just makes sense why this is so difficult to solve.
      I don’t think this clue starts in the middle of “your creek” where you only have 2 choices – up the creek or down the creek –

      I think this clue starts at the end of a creek but you have to choose “your creek” from the line before: The end is drawing ever nigh;

  9. IMO, I believe it’s a very simple clue.
    You go DOWN STREAM.
    It’s a directional clue.

    • I concur. But I am coming to believe that Forrest has often worked in multiple meanings to his wordings. The more meanings, the better. So “no paddle up your creek” means both head downstream and the creek does north or up on a compass. That’s how you know it’s your creek. It also confirms creek size as too small to be navigable.

      And the next line seems attached: “Just heavy loads and water high”. Which I take to be the reference to waterfall(s).

      Now to work on the Heavy Loads part.



  10. Tuh me it’s uh LANE, lane 9 tuh be xact, of uh BOWLIN aly.
    Key word = an with my treasures BOWLED.
    course there’s GUTTERS awn either side of LANE 9 (= thuh creek)
    but yuh cain’t swim up thuh crick anmore than ya can swim in them gutters
    cause aint none of em gots nuh waters cause he speakin in metafir
    he keep it lane NINE, cause thuh treasure is thuh TENTH clue
    which is why when yuh bowl all of em over, yuh get a STRIKE
    thas why he talks suh much bout baseball, cause yuh gotta get a STRIKE
    by bowlin over all 9 clews an thuh 10th one to fir Indulgence.
    reason bein lane 9 is cause in them Greek myths, TEN = X (not many people no that)
    an Finn new that, which is how come he figured it tuh last 900 years.
    an whasmore if yuh look round ye at mos any bowlin aly, mos uh thuh folks
    yull see look like they jus crawled outta sum gutter they own self
    which is why Finn calls em “up thuh creek without no paddle” types
    an hes right. but he likes them rustic types despite they flaws cause
    money didnt never spoil him intuh no hoity toity feller
    he kept his humble roots set in thuh heart
    ole Fenn’s a real Cabanero with a splash uh extra hot sauce on side
    iffin yuh ask me.


    • @A Leach.

      You have a way with words. I regard your nouveau spelling style to be an affectation. Is it meant to hide your Xact meaning in plain sight?



    • I noah lot about thangs
      but not much about bo-ling.
      I like to jus set on the binch and watch.
      Usually git board and just red a book.

    • Heyho Leach! Back 2 bowling? But in bowling you have 10 pins… did I misunderstand something or were you talking skittles? 🙂
      Cheers to ya

  11. All good solves. Still, it seems If we aren’t solid with the first Two clues how will we come to understand the rest? My guess is the first two clues will help suggest the answer to the rest.

    • This seems like a good comment. Pretty much every line of the poem could be interpreted to mean different things. Depending on where you start and decided what WWWH means, the rest of the clues will start to fall in place. I think looking at one line in isolation might be a good exercise to just explore ideas, but I think finding the correct interpretation will only come from hints and context based on other clues.

  12. I agree with the image of a dry creek bed. But, it would not have been a creek bed if there were not water flowing in it from time to time. Also mentioned sometimes is mud. Mud works for me too. The creek that is shown in the link with my name is called Mud Creek. It is where the natives got their mud to make pots at the Pot Creek Cultural Site. Also mentioned on the website is a check dam where the water was pooled. That may qualify as a heavy loads, water high.
    That is just an example of a type of place or creek. Not a solve. IMO.

    • Michael – I think that heavy loads is the highway – that takes you to waters high which is the northern part of this body of water ( waters high ) the word high would be north in elevation – from hob going north the elevation is higher imo

    • My actual current solve is not far but too far to walk from the Pot Creek Cultural Site. To the north, in Bear Wallow Canyon, up bear wallow creek. It is another dry creek bed most of the time. At the head is Bear Spring. Part of my reasoning began with this scrapbook
      It portrays Mt. Wheeler in California. Which I took to be a hint and reflection of Mt. Wheeler in New Mexico. In this scrapbook picture there is a bear wallowing in the water. That’s what got me, even though there is no lake in Bear Wallow Canyon. It was the name that was the hint. Unfortunately due to my disability I couldn’t get too far along up there. So, if anybody is up for a nice hike, I suggest that spot.

      • Funny thing about the stone marker that f is standing next to that I had not noticed before. On the lower half it looks like the lichen makes the image of a man that is holding something. Just above him the darker portion of the stone is shaped like a bear. Above the bear is a white square.

        • I’m lichen your thinking Michael… 🙂 I love that bear image and can see it but having trouble seeing the man… I’ll keep looking!

  13. I think it’s due to,
    A. Direction of the waters
    B. Ability to traverse water in oared vessel
    C. Your up a Creek when you find yourself running around the Rockies on a treasure hunt and your only confirmation is your “gut instincts”.

  14. I think “There’ll be no paddle up your creek” suggests a specific creek, to which a searcher should pay attention.

    • I’ll buy the “specific creek” idea and… who is to say that this creek my be dry most of the year… even if it shows water on a map. The monetary key to the whole search (in my humble opinion) is constant boots on the ground.

    • Agree, now find all definitions of paddle, in my solve two lines in poem, in stanzas 2/3, confirm which creek. Line 9 is homonym + and line 10 is a riddle. Each of these lines, when solved, give two geographical points. They happen to be right next to hoB. Imo of course. Without the area given in stanza 1 it would be impossible to know what the poem is saying or where to begin it. Imo of course. Heavy loads= you hiking up hill with a spring at top= water high. Blaze= trail +. Why look quickly? The answer helps name the trail along with line 13. Marvel gaze is just a great view and also helps confirm the place you are at, at this point.

  15. The poem line “There’ll be no paddle up your creek,” bothers me a bit, because I found some
    paddles up “my” creek. They were in water.

    However, I’m not planning to change my solve. It’s well-supported.

    As always, this message is part of my opinion.

  16. My Take: You have to examine the Line in context of the Third Stanza.
    From there it’s no place for the meek,
    The end is ever drawing nigh;
    There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
    Just heavy loads and water high.

    I have determined no place for the Meek as; Side of the Road, a Pull off……
    The end is drawing nigh; -Y- This is both directional left and refers to Geographical location old creek draw..
    There’ll be no paddle up your creek; This means you are on foot and walking from your car (no place for meek) towards the next location which is heavy loads above and your destination of water in front of you. Water is singular, making it one body of water.

    As always IMO, Good Luck to all.

    • I’ll consider this as a possible alternative way of interpreting the poem. In fact,
      I may test it before doing the (longer) hike that I may also do. All IMO.

      • I believe your solution Parallels mine in theory but we are in different locations. I have noticed many similarities TA. It Would be great to compare once it’s all over. You have many great ideas. Good Searching to you!

  17. the creek – has a beginning and it has an end- it begins at hob , and it ends when it meets with this body of water, and it becomes wwwh. so if you follow the creek to hob, where it begins , you have no choice but to don’t paddle drive, that’s my opinion

  18. IMO, this is one of the instances of an aberration living out on the edge. The paddle in question has nothing to do with the creek, which can be as fast moving, dry, boulder ridden, etc. as you can imagine.

  19. from the bottom of the canyon where wwh – you go up the creek – or west to hob – to go up your creek- to me it means- that you are at wwwh – so from wwwh you go up to hob- no paddle up your creek is wwwh imo

  20. The first “There’ll Be No Paddle Up Your Creek” thread that just closed began on December 30, 2015. Way before I heard of Mr Fenn and his quest. My opinion has not changed.
    To me it means that it’s a stream that is too small, narrow, or shallow to paddle a boat in. Or simply a dry creek bed or wash.

  21. I think one possibility might be that after you “put in” below the home of Brown. You will be in a place or location that is “ no place for the meek”.
    Then you will come to a creek, but you do not go up the creek , instead you go “nigh”or left or even better West.
    Since you do not go up the creek therefore “there’ll be no paddle up your creek”. So to speak.
    Just an idea that I’ve considered, your opinions may differ.


    • Kanafire I like your opinions – the only way to get to hob is to go up or west from wwwh then turn right or north to waters high – to the blaze, to in the wood ,and to the chest that’s my opinion that’s where we differ. good luck, be careful and have fun .

  22. I meant to include that the creek is just a marker to tell you where to go “nigh”



    • LOL – what ever it is called, it still runs right?
      Sometimes when it stops or gets backed up, it tends to smell.

  23. There’ll be no paddle up your creek. I believe it is a play on words. A paddle will be of no use to traverse a waterway that is anything but a creek. In other words, the waterway has some might to it.

  24. Heyevery1, I’m just joining in to all this fun and have read all this blog and have an opinion, of course. 🙂 Just wondering why no one has come up with the idea that the word “nigh” in the poem means “near”. Does anyone besides me remember the lyrics from the military song called “Taps”. They are as follows:

  25. sorry, here is the rest.

    Day is done, Gone the sun,
    From the lake, From the hill, From the sky.
    All is well, Safely rest,
    God is nigh.
    In this instance, the word Nigh means near or nearby.
    (Remember, ff is a veteran. thank you for your service.)

    Daughter and Wife of Veteran, here. I heard that song ALOT in my youth between Girl Scouts and Taps played every night on base when the Flag was put to bed.
    Just another thought to consider.

    • WOW!!
      I forgot that nigh is close
      “Ever drawing close”
      Of course. Thank you for your insight and bringing me back to memory lane.
      Very insightful and another conundrum smoothed over.
      Ever grateful,

    • MiloTX-
      That is a great share. I don’t think anyone one this blog has mentioned that definition before. Thanks for that…

      • There have been weeklong debates between “near” and “left” on this blog many times.

        I’ve always considered “near” the default meaning of nigh, and “left” the outlier, since the “left” meaning comes from “the near side of the horse” – the side of the horse you approach to mount, which happens to be the left side of the horse (the other side is the “off” side). Being right-handed, I also mount my bicycle from its left side.

        *** *** “Near and Off Side of a horse
        The horse’s left is his near side, the right his off side. We lead horses, do up their tack, and mount them from the near side. This all goes back to the days of wearing swords on horseback. Since a sword is usually hung from the left hip, mounting from the left means the scabbarded sword does not have to cross the horse’s back as the rider swings his leg over. Also, if you are mounting with sword in hand, your left hand is able to control the reins, and the right hand your sword, as you mount.” *** ***

        But no horserider ever said “go down the lane two miles past the tavern, and turn ‘nigh’ when you get to the fork.”


        • Hello, while somewhat true, not entirely correct. In a wagon team of horses or mules (as in a 6 up stagecoach team use nigh. Especially with long team leads, as in a 20 mile team (Borax shipping) or in a dog sled team. I know just from my experience. IMHO
          Rick Lasttolook

          • Yes, you’re right, it applies to draught animal teams too. The driver (unless mounted on the cart or wagon)stands near the left side of the lead animal (or left lead animal if in tandem).

            Presumably so the driver is holding the rein with his right (strong) arm.

            But “gee” and “haw” were the verbal commands to turn the animal(s) right or left. They didn’t yell “Nigh, mule, nigh!”

            We’re right-hand dominant. Also why, before center-line rudders, the “stearing board” on a ship was on the right side (the “st’arboard” side) – the stearer would stand to the left of the stearing board and get the benefit of having his strong arm on the rudder.

            The world has long been designed somewhat awkwardly for southpaws. 😉

          • Hi JAK: the same left-handed/right-handed calculus went into the architecture of spiral staircases in medieval castles. You’ll notice that most ascend continually turning to the left — i.e. clockwise (sunwise) as viewed from below. This puts predominantly right-handed attackers at a disadvantage because their sword-swinging right arms were up against the outer wall of the spiral, whereas descending defenders were not similarly hindered.

            For the curious, the opposite of sunwise or clockwise (also called diesul) is widdershins. And to bring this full circle (pun intended) to the Fenn puzzle, you can walk widdershins around a meadow; you don’t walk nigh around one.

        • Conversely, the left bank and the right bank of a creek (or stream, or river) are defined by facing downstream.

          But the *nigh* or *near* side of a stream is the side you happen to be standing on, which could be either the left or the right bank.

    • MIlciTX,

      Thanks for the memories.

      Grew up on an army base. I always loved hearing Taps every day, and when my Dad retired and we moved off base there was something missing at that time of day.

      Best of luck with the chase.

  26. Old Scouting Song:
    Bill Groagan’s goat, was feeling fine
    Ate three red shirts, from off the line
    Bill took a stick, gave it a whack
    and tied it to, the railroad track!
    The whistle blew, the train drew NIGH
    Bill Groagan’s goat, was doomed to die
    He gave three groans, of awful pain
    coughed up the shirts, and flagged the train!

    Yep… nigh is when you are getting ever closer IMO

  27. I still think that in the poem nigh means, that when you get to in the wood, the end( treasure chest) will always (ever) be to the left. that’s my opinion.

  28. I believe NIGH to mean both left and close . IMO sorry Dal , I know it is wrong thread but i just had to say it .

  29. You can not paddle up a creek that does not exist ; there is no creek , just heavy loads and water high .

        • Not arquing, just gently disagreeing.
          I was simply stating that I believe there is a creek – of sorts.

    • I agree with JPE. I believe ‘creek’ is just a metaphor for something else. If the ‘creek’ is not a watercourse, then you would not need a paddle in the first place. In fact, just about everything in the poem is a metaphor for something else. A deeper meaning. A creek is not really a creek, a paddle is not an oar, warm and cold are both relative, you can walk a cat but not a dog, home is where the heart is, meek is a place that draws no attention, the ‘end’ is not where the chest is, wise does not mean smart, ‘found’ is not the past or present tense of find, the blaze is not really a physical object, up and down is not just three dimensional, tired and weak have nothing to do with age or how your body feels, ‘hear me all and listen good’ is actually a physical object, ‘in the wood’ does not necessarily mean in the forest or the trees.
      Confusing? Extraordinarily so!

      • I tend to dismiss/ignore confusing things after being exposed to them,
        unless they are quite important to me. Good luck in your solving/searching.

      • I would agree with your general ideas red… except for one small detail, ff has said that the blaze is a “physical” thing, something you can look at.

        this quote is somewhere on Dal’s blog in an audio recording, which one should search for on the blog as I don’t think I bookmarked it.

        • We’re getting a little off topic here, but just a short reply to Writis. At the bottom of your screen are a bunch of symbols,called icons, or shortcuts. While you can look at them and see them, you can’t physically touch them. They are simply a representation, or starting point, of a deeper process. Is the blaze just a symbol? Can a symbol last for a thousand years? Can you see it during the daytime, without a flashlight?

          • Sorry for the break . . . had to run to ‘physical’ therapy. Anyway, physical or not, I believe that what you should be looking for is not the blaze itself, but what the blaze represents. Look for the deeper meaning first by understanding the metaphor. When you know what the underlying application is, then you can back up and identify the symbol used to represent it. Only then, my friend, will you know what the blaze is. Easy as pie, right?

  30. Well, anyone I have ever known that is up a creek without a paddle is someone who is in trouble. Maybe the creek name… despite size relates to a “troublesome” word(s)? {though not a place that would be dangerous to go} Or did the “load” become really heavy as it is a creek that rises more steeply than others in the area?

    Or, your troubles begin so to speak as you move from an easy walk to a tougher walk… {maybe suddenly needing to wade for a good distance in ‘your creek’} or you will have to put in some serious effort “trouble” now that you are at the creek, i.e., being extra careful so you do not miss the blaze?

    Also just had a random thought. “your creek” ‘yore creek’ – treasures new and old… hmmm a creek named for something ancient, from days of yore? A creek named in a native language? – maybe even a name for “brave” or named after a brave Indian?

    Thoughts only – haven’t tied any of this to my favorite solve, though I may see some wading in my future. – worth the cold – Also need to look at “native” creeks now.

      • “The Creeks are original residents of the American southeast, particularly Georgia, Alabama, Florida, and North Carolina. Most Creeks were forced to move to Oklahoma in the 1800’s, like other southern Indian tribes. There are 20,000 Muskogee Creeks in Oklahoma today.” (

        One of the many on the Trail of Tears.
        Now that was a Creek.

        • “Like a bridge over troubled waters… I will lay me down…” (with my T.C.) No, I don’t think he would have wanted to rest ‘in’ the creek with is treasure… but I know when I have been in the mountains, I have always loved the sound of a creek. Very calming, relaxing and refreshing… IMO, there is a running creek within earshot of the T.C.

          • HotL,
            Agree, nothing more peaceful than the sound of a babbling brook to help you RIP

  31. i tend to believe that there is NO creek used in the line [ there`ll be no paddle up your creek ] , i think FF means that by saying YOUR creek , he means OUR creek , the one that we can safely use to go UP and INTO the woods , we do not need a paddle in OUR creek cause our creek is a TRAIL , but it seems that there ARE heavy loads and water high up our trail . think about it before you toss it out . IMO

  32. Tall , i think the reason there`s no paddle up our creek is because OUR creek is a trail . let`s say we are below hob , now we need to enter the woods , but where ? , walking in a creek can be difficult , even without a 42lb chest . so for FF to get us into the wood , at the correct place , he is telling us to go in using a trail as our creek . there`ll be no paddle up YOUR creek ,, our creek is a trail . IMO

    • Cuckoo cuckoo what are you raven about all this horse play is buggying me. How far is a 80 year old cancer survivor getting width 42 lbs on foot?

        • Fellow searchers,
          Just my opinion, but FF has always been in remarkable shape. When he hid the tc, he was already cancer free for more than 16 years. I saw him 4 years before he hid the tc and he was in fine shape. Don’t think his age was a factor. He’s a tough old bird even today at almost 90.
          And IMO you are all missing the “UP”, “no paddle UP your creek” because you go DOWN the creek. JIMO

        • JPE, do you believe that FF carried the bronze chest at least 500 feet, but not more than 900 feet, on the last walk he took with the purpose of transporting that chest to its present hiding place?

  33. Tall A,
    I think he parked the car, walked 650 yards, put the chest down, walked back 650 yards, picking up the treasure , walked 650 yards deposits the treasure in the chest, covers it with wood from a decaying log, looks around, seeing no one he laughs out loud and shakes his head every step back the 650 yards to his car. All the while never getting more than 50 feet in elevation change. He then Drives back to Peggy and slaps her on the behind and gives her a wink. Chuckles to himself while he goes to his study, pets his dog and awaits his hot chocolate Peg is making.
    Rick Lasttolook

    • Rick: you have the order of the chest and treasure wrong. He took the treasure in on the first round trip, and the bronze chest on the second. This is the smarter order logistically.

      • Zappos,
        IMO he would not want to leave the jewels and small items on the ground, even if bagged. The chest had the least value of $25k and easier to manage while the treasure contents would be safe in the car.
        I respect your opinion and that’s what is great about the FF adventure. There are a hundred thousand solutions and have been 3600 blog hours of opinions, mostly different. That is what gives this search it’s many wrinkles and twists and turns. A great ‘tie-dyed’ rainbow of colors.
        Thanks for your input and your opinions. Look forward to finding out in the end.
        Rick Lasttolook

          • Zaphod,
            You had me laughing for not dissing part of my solve. Your issue was with the order or treasure-chest-treasure. Thanks for the laugh.
            Good searching,

        • Hi Rick: the hiding order is not my opinion. Forrest stated the order:

          From Richard Eeds radio show (5/29/2015):

          Eeds: “Okay. Um, how much does it weigh?”
          FF: “The gold in the treasure chest weighs 20.2 troy pounds. And the chest weighs forty, uh, twenty-two pounds. So the whole thing, I think, is around 42 pounds. It was heavy enough that I made two trips to hide it. I took the gold in one time, and then I took the treasure chest in the second time.”


          • So should you take the Gold out first or the chest. What color was that Bear again? I think I might bag up the Gold and such. Leave it there and take out the chest first. That way if someone sees me on the way out, I will only have the chest. Of course I will have my Gun with me so I might go O.K.Coral on them if they try to take it.. then there’s that Bear to contend with. All IMO

          • Hi Zap
            In the TTOTC on page 133 you said the
            blurred out map is New Mexico how did you come up with that?Clint

  34. BEC,
    hahahahaha, good questions.
    The bear was golden Brown and was wearing a turquoise and silver bracelet. I said a friend was hoping to get it back but the bear wasn’t interested in giving it up.
    I think that unless you are a recent cancer survivor and older than I am, then we should just bring it out all at once. It’s only about 650 yards. Lol IMO

    • Thanks for getting my joke. It’s hard to get laughs these days. I’m disabled so for me I would have to bribe the bear into helping. I think bears are cute and warm, so I will bring some strawberries with me..

      I agree with you, it’s not too far so I’m just going to take my time and enjoy the company. At least you would make the 5 o’clock news when they find that bracelet wrapped around your wrist on your skeleton. Fenn searcher finds treasure and momma grizzly. I believe the huckleberries are there so best to go early in spring before the bears come. Best of luck!

  35. how about a new way of looking at, there’ll be no paddle up your creek. but first think of the poem and the hole stanza, From there it’s no place for the meek, The end is ever drawing nigh; There’ll be no paddle up your creek, Just heavy loads and water high. do you see it? that hole stanza is one sentence. My take is what can be a clue (land mark set on the map) the meek, nigh, your creek, heavy loads and water high. but to find the clues you need to know how the words are used? Forrest Fenn said in mountain man how to set a trail or mark it how every you look at it. the meek is set as the old west states if you go into Indians Land and cross the border it’s no place for the meek. mountain man border set as follow the creek, if you set catalyst to it, it’s one place (land mark on the map) from hob it’s no place for the meek, the end is drawing nigh; (close) There’ll be no paddle up your creek. cross creek and go to the meek the X is close. then you have no paddle up your creek, just heavy loads and water high. all 4 are clues but it’s only 3 clues because meek and creek is the same?

  36. My daughter and I have been tossing around ideas for the “No Paddle…” clue lately. I’d like to hear what some of you think about this idea we had….when we hear the expression “No paddle up your creek” in other contexts, we usually think of it as a “bad” or negative thing….so if a creek was named….”Paradise Creek”, could that somehow be construed as a place where no paddle up our creek would fit the clue….being that it’s a “good” or positive name?

    • L. Lanier – I don’t quite follow your line of thinking. The common expression is “up a creek without a paddle” to mean a negative thing. So if the line in the poem is “There’ll be no paddle up your creek” wouldn’t that imply a creek name with a negative (instead of positive) association using your logic?

    • L. Lanier … I get your drift. I agree that No paddle up your creek could be construed as a good thing e.g., if a paddle is not needed that could be a paradise creek since strenuous rowing would not be necessary … therefore, your “Paradise Creek” would fit in with your line of thinking. In my opinion

      Lyzee Bella
      Safety First Always

  37. So…
    Wood like to leave something on here to ponder about!!!
    When I first read “there is no paddle up your creek”
    The first thing that came into mind was ,what has paddle s (Oars)
    1-boats, canoes,and rafts and just about any other water crafts out there
    2-how about steamboats ,there powered wheel s had paddles which powered them forward or backwards
    negating them to rivers,lakes ,and other major waters and not creeks
    3- and lastly what about water wheels which wood power many application s ,
    grain crushing
    wood mills
    and most importantly in this case
    #4 in gold mining ,which in this case ,because of the treasure chest (almost all of it,GOLD)
    this should not be dismissed
    My solve was surrounded by this factor and did take a couple hikes(trips) to the area
    Still like my solve ,but still haven’t figured the other clues
    let me know what you think!!! just thinking outside the box.

    • dean,

      I had considered something like this as well. A more thorough list:

      1. An implement with a flat blade at one or both ends, held in the hands without an oarlock and passed through the water to propel a small boat such as a canoe.
      2. Any of various implements resembling the paddle of a boat or canoe, as:
      a. Sports A light wooden or plastic racket used in playing table tennis, platform tennis, and similar games.
      b. A flat board with a handle used to administer physical punishment.
      c. A blade or shovellike implement used for stirring or mixing.
      3. Medicine A flat electrode that is part of a defibrillator and is put on a patient’s chest to deliver an electric shock to the heart.
      4. A board on a paddle wheel.
      5. A flipper or flattened appendage of certain animals.
      6. Botany See pad1.
      7. The act of paddling.

      Also I would not rule out any interpretation referring to orientating oneself through a medium such as doggie paddle or even in aeronautics.

      Great question. Hope this helps you explore the possibilities,
      All IMO.


      • Ann,
        IMO, we are still over thinking this. Forrest wrote the poem from his memory of a special kindred place in his head many times over many years.
        I really think he was retracing his moves one special day from many years ago and seeing each clue in his head, step by step until he gets to the resting place of the treasure chest (elusive). He then hides it there at least 15 years later. The natural landmarks (clues) that he puts down on paper and then perfects it ( like an architect ) is still from memory. They are all natural clues he is giving us. No tricks. Just a lot of area to cover.
        Just my opinion. No longer humble but I’m just trying to help the over-thinkers.

        • Rick,

          Thanks. I was just trying to help dean expound on his paddle thoughts. I wasn’t suggesting my own thoughts just posing potential renderings of paddle for dean t ponder. I am in agreement with what you have said though. Too much overthinking! I wonder why you added the no longer humble part. I appreciate the concern though. I try not to be discouraging of the ideas of others, whether they may be viewed as sound or not in terms of the Chase. It’s good to see they are at least thinking. Even fleeting thoughts are thoughts we once had whatever their impact on the end result. I do not hold the whims of the mind against the individual, just as I don’t hold misperceived conceptions of posts against the one perceiving. Perhaps, it is your response above that will help dean more than if no one had responded at all. All IMO.


          • Ty Ann for the comment
            This year actually looking for a Canadian team to go find that wee bit of a treasure
            Did you get a chance to look at my avatar beside my name???
            My hidey spot was near my paddle(without giving to many clues)
            And followed pretty well the poem ,believe or not ,I’m still pondering over wwwh .?

          • Ann,
            I said no longer humble because I was being more bold and direct in my statement. I’m like most people, I respect others opinions and I don’t want to pop their balloons. Your thoughts I really liked because they were very thoughtful and thorough. But new many new searchers read these things and build a chase related to a steamboat paddle. Many searchers are building their search from home not aware it the terrain or topography of this beautiful west. I’m thinking that some of those that have died had forgotten that Forrest said he drove there in his car, walked to the spot twice and walked back to his car, drove home and His beautiful bride didn’t even know he had left to go anywhere. He has said it is hidden in a place an old man can just walk to but I saw searchers 80 feet up a cliff face looking in a deep crevice. I’m a nurse by trade and an educator by choice. I’m afraid to come off pompous or a know it all but he has said (and I’m paraphrasing) if you read between the lines to solve this poem, you should only see paper. There are no tricks. I pray that I don’t offend anyone. My only aim is to protect people from themselves. Many times bloggers and searchers have saved me from going down rabbit holes.
            Rick Lasttolook

          • Rick,

            Thank you for looking out for the rest of us! It is certainly easy to fall into rabbit holes around here! Wouldn’t want to twist an ankle or fall too far to the bottom! No harm no foul. And certainly no need for any apologies. You have valid concerns and it’s nice to know there are concerned searchers among us. I would not want any of my posts to be misleading or lead anyone into danger either, thus I clarified in this instance. All I did there was look up the word paddle, perhaps in the same manner FF has looked up the nouns in his poem, and provided that info to dean. I thank you for your kind words and for caring about others. Hope you are having a great weekend!


            You are quite welcome. Canadian!?!
            I have tried to look at the picture but I don’t know how to enlarge it! I know there is a mark or petroglyph of som sort. Just hard to see.
            Hidey spot near a paddle is a new one. And how do you not have WWWH figured out yet! I mean that in the sense that you feel you have the rest solved. How did you know where to begin? I think I have finally settled on a reasonable WWWH. Actually it’s the only one so far that isn’t a draw from the hat. Don’t like the likely HOB that goes with it but that seems less important than getting the right WWWH. All so relative I guess!

            All IMO.


      • Ann,
        If you examine the order of the poem, the line; Put in below the home of Brown. This line Is the last thing you do in that stanza. Then you break. This line refers to getting off the river and is when you first go BOTG. IMO

        Follow me now.

        From there it’s no place for the meek,
        This is a place referred to in TTOTC , No Place for Ole Biddies.
        This is a Road, you must cross the street.
        Now, The end is ever drawing nigh;
        Is the direction, it’s on the Left.
        Then: There’ll be no paddle up your creek,

        The creek has no water in it but is a narrow passage that bends… that’s a paddle needed because you were out of the water down by the river.. he is just describing locations on a map.

        The rest I will leave for you to figure out… Best of luck, All in my opinion.

        • Hi bec
          The only problem with what you are saying is that he says (To my recollection) the treasure is not near a trail

          • Goldmember333, you are close, he said’ it’s not near a man-made trail but there is game trails left by animals’. Sorry to but in
            Rick Lasttolook

          • hey rick
            I believe you are right ,about human trails or roads for that fact ,but we should ask (the almighty dal) lol , for the full quote about animal trails
            which are everywhere btw FRIG!!!
            Btw I think IMO dal is doing 1 heck of a job ,keeping us in line (teachers with ropes)

          • With you BEC. It’s a trail. But are searchers reading the poem correctly? Just going by the poem, no ‘p’ add “le” up, could be a possible. Would need to solve the whole line, but if searchers are only seeing one way of solving the poem, then they are putting all there eggs in one basket. Would have to be a huge basket.

        • Bec,

          Hello again! Agreed about line 8. Not sure about “off the river” but I will entertain the idea.

          I followed you. I am curious about one thing. While I haven’t looked up the word nigh, I have now seen it referring “to the left” multiple times. Is this a common definition? I will look it up here shortly but I thought you may wish to explain. That certainly is an interesting prospect.

          I can’t wait for everyone to go check out their solves so we can hear about it after!


        • BEC, I’m starting to find that you have very similar ideas to mine. What’s funny is I actually reread No Place for the Biddies today and realized that this hint could have something to do with crossing the road. Crossing the road, to a spot with no trail, fit perfectly for my latest solution. We differ slightly on NPUYC. My creek is a narrow passage that bends also, but has water that cannot be paddled up.

        • Also meant to add if crossing a road was part of NPFTM, then the road could be the thing that qualifies as a clue that wasn’t there when FF was a child. In keeping with the theme, this road is one that is not far from NPUYC.

  38. wwwh is at the bottom of the canyon (canyon down)where the creek meets with the other body of water- the bottom of the creek and the other body of water , makes wwwh – from there you take it in( you go up or go west) its not far but to far to walk to home of brown. where the creek starts and flows back to the east. to the bottom of the canyon, to make wwwh , where its below home of brown – a dry creek will not make wwwh, this stanza imo is just to tell us that wwh is east and go up (west ) to home of brown . its just to tell us, what is what, and what direction to go. good luck and yes its just an opinion —frank

    • Have to strongly disagree about where wwh is(bottom of canyon). Read those lines again. Begin IT wwh AND take IT IN the canyon down. It doesn’t imply that wwwh goes into the canyon. It says begin IT and take it. Unless wwwh=it then your wrong. Imo

      • Deeep thinker- thanks for your reply – Begin it wwwh- and take it in the canyon down- canyon down is at the bottom of the canyon – when you make a left turn is the bottom of the canyon- wwwh is at the bottom of the canyon – to begin is at the bottom of the canyon – all is at the bottom of the canyon below hob – I don’t think that you know enough about the poem to be telling any one that they are wrong

  39. Rick Lasttolook
    no worries about budding in,we are all trying to help each other ,in this wild and crazy chase
    thumbs up!!!

  40. Travis B and Goldmember,
    In an answer to a question Forrest said, no, you won’t find it on a trail, not a man-made trail anyways, there are game trails all over that country.
    And yes, Dal is doing an unbelievably good job. I think anyone that finds ‘elusive’ should give him his pirates share. Without Dal, many of us would be looking in Texas or California. Haha. Forest mistakenly said Yosemite once. All of us are in this together, and thankfully many are being a great help. It’s difficult to remember the exact interview that came from since I haven’t been noting which interview that I’m listening to while I’m writing down his quotes. I will amend that mistake if he ever does another interview. But it was an answer to a question. It may have been from the many 6 questions and answers or diversions from an answer, (Forrest is still candid) that we are fortunate to here. I only hope to help, never to hinder.
    Rick Lasttolook

    • Rick-
      I dunno where Forrest refers specifically to “game” trails. But he does refer to “human” trails:

      “If you ain’t the lead dog, the scenery never changes. When I am in the mountains or in the desert, the last place I want to be is on a trail. Ain’t no adventure in that for me. There isn’t a human trail in very close proximaty to where I hid the treasure. f”

    • I am aware of FF’s trail comment, it the chest is no where near or in close proximity to a human trail. Just poses the question to other possibilities.
      Also if I was the one to recover the chest, the vessel and all of its contents will stay together as a whole while in my possession. As far as I’m concerned as soon as it starts to be dismantled the Mystic and Aura of The Thrill of the Chase has been gutted. The finder should do everything to preserve this amazing legacy for generations to come.

      • Travis B,
        In my as yet unproven solve, I’m thinking of a river bank trail leading downstream, then 300 feet up another man made trail along a tributary stream, then 200 feet up a heavily wooded game trail to a white rock precipice where the tc is inside a cleft in some rocks.
        I have the spot but didn’t go far enough.
        Just a hope and a dream

  41. Ann O’Nymous
    so do tell about your wwwh ,I need a contact down south to help in the search ,interested???
    I need another crazy person to help me get out of trouble lol

  42. goldmember,

    I gather you are located in Canada! Not sure how much help I can be, or about getting you out of trouble!?! But I am willing to entertain the idea. Have Dal get me an email you can be reached at and I will contact you there. I’ll let you know if I come across that crazy person you are looking for. I’m fairly sane, just new to the Chase and I am beginning to wonder what sort of vortex I may have been sucked into here! Hope you’ve had a great weekend.


    • I have been on the trail since 2013
      “wow” that’s long (he says in that head of his)
      I sent dal a message and who knows ,I am willing to go 50/50 for sure !!!
      still trying to think outside the box here , new ideas are always good and welcome !!!
      look at my first post for my name in this thread !!!

  43. Forrest,if your listening, don’t worry I finally get your point. Just waiting for the snow and run off to end. It is over. Tell the fat lady to prepare to sing. What took me so long?

      • I agree that she is hibernating right now, and it isn’t over until you have the chest. All I was saying is that the fat lady needs to start warming up her vocals. That was my point.

        • Well that’s not polite calling her fat.

          yes it’s time to get the engine tuned up and lube up the ole body joints. I’ve been doing day hikes almost daily.

        • You sound very sure of yourself Kee.
          Are you comfortable sharing your search state?
          I don’t know how long you’ve been at this, but we’ve heard claims like yours many times before.
          Good luck to you.

          • I have been looking since 2013 .
            I am searching in Colorado. I know that many people have claimed this before , I have been one of those people in the past. Yes , I can answer all those questions posted but If I answered all of them I would give away where it is. I will do this I will answer one of those questions so pick the one you want me to answer.

        • Kee – If I had a dollar for every time someone thought Forrest was “talking” to them, I wouldn’t need to bother looking for a $1 million plus treasure chest. K?

          • ode to the mating calls of the great northern Snow Peacocks; (those convincing themselves 100% over the winter)

            we have to wait for the snow to melt and mud to dry, so the Snow Peacocks are enlightened in real time with summer sunshine.

            summer best time for the SP’s as the mating calls die down, are happily nesting and laying eggs through out the summer waiting for the great hatch of the peaggles in the fall, (baby SP’s)

            one can only hope that in the rush of dried mud none sprains an ankle as they trip over the nesting sites.


    • Kee ~ *Forrest,if your listening, don’t worry I finally get your point.*
      You posted this on an open blog. fenn’s email is on his personal web site.. you could have easliy send him the message, but you chose to state it here. You have to expect questions in-regards to your comment…

      Like randawg said, we heard this many times before… heck… we have heard it from a dozen or more searchers just this winter alone.

      So, I was just wondering what “Point” you are referring to?

      Nailing down WWsH?
      The Important possibility no one has mentioned?
      If we knew hoB?
      What details are on the right map?
      The word that is key?
      The riddle in the poem?
      The story behind it all?
      The item in the chest saved especially for the one who finds it?
      or any dozens of other ideas….?

      What is your point?

      • My point is that i finally figured out the thing I was missing. I was on the right track in the past but I was missing the point of the blaze. I was also missing the point of this blog too. So many people to help here. I didn’t realize how for years I was going in circles but not exactly the correct one. I am certain I understand now. Although I am a bit scared.

        • I’m curious, why are you a bit scared?
          Also, what point did Forrest make?

          • Like I said I was missing the point. When your out searching there are so many blazes. I was confused until I looked at the book again and realized Forrest was pointing out what the blaze was. IBy the way I am searching in New Mexico. Have you ever thought that maybe their is something possibly supernatural where the treasure is?

  44. I never said that I thought Forrest was talking directly to me. Where did you get the idea from? Weird.

    • Kee;

      Did you know that if you click on the “reply” button that your new comment will fall below the comment that you are referencing – Like this one to you? I hit “reply”, and now YOU know that I am responding to your post, and you do not have to guess to whom I am responding- Have a GREAT day – JDA

    • Kee,
      Don’t worry about what anyone says, Forrest IS TALKING directly to you. He is talking directly to anyone that is listening and searching in earnest. Each one of us has an equal chance of finding the treasure chest. Nobody has the inside tract as proved by 10 years and half a million BOTG searches.
      Just my opinion
      Rick Lasttolook

    • No Kee, I never thought there was anything supernatural about the site, but you do…why?
      Also, didnt you say you were searching in Colorado?

      • Kee on February 29, 2020 at 1:27 pm said:

        I have been looking since 2013 .
        I am searching in Colorado.

        It’s the Newer Mexico apparently.

      • I just had to ask, I have been noticing. a few things FF has put in the book that has me thinking something strange may be part of the chase. Like the story of flying machines and quotes of his like. “ I laughed at myself for being so human..”. There is also a drawing. The soldier in the book looks like his patch is a magic lamp. Seems like Forrests surprise for the finder. might be out of this world.

  45. It’s time to start keeping an eye on those snotel snow depths and the gage height of “your creek” so it will be safe(as well as worth the cold) when you cross it. Thousands of us will soon head out with that solve that only needed to be tweaked that final 1% so that this time we merely need to go to our area and simply “pick it up”.

    Resist the urge to contact Forrest so you can bring him along and watch him weep tears of joy when you retrieve Indulgence. But definitely DO reserve a safe deposit box in the nearest big city and bone up on all the pertinent tax code and treasure trove laws. Carry a couple of empt backpacks so you can “double bag” the chest so it doesn’t break open and spill on the ground as you walk back to your sedan.

    It’s probably not too early to begin incorporating that charitable foundation where you plan to give away most of your millions ( after paying off a few meager bills of course! ). And after waiting 30 days for your head to clear, I would go ahead and contact the publisher that will put your memoir on the New York Times best seller list ( I plan on using Random House ).

    Seriously now – as JDA would say – have fun and be safe. As I live on the east coast, this year will be only my 3rd failed attempt. I admire those of you who have failed dozens of times, and plan on joining your ranks when my wife and I retire to the Rockies in about 5 years. Yours, meekly. Warlock62.

  46. Dal – We were discussing that great Yellowstone video you did with Forrest, where he talks about storing the family gear about 2 miles in from the West Entrance, over on Jenny’s Facebook treasure page. Just after the 3:20 mark, is this:

    I had just re-watched that video. Love the mention of the 8-10 fishing spots Forrest and his Dad never told anyone about, just after that mark in the video. They could always ‘go alone in there’s. IMO. Find one of those special spots, and find the treasure. Old Fritz told me where one of HIS special spots was, in August of 2019, when I saw him in his waders, returning from it, at Baker’S Hole. Just upstream, and on the same side of the Madison River, from my hidey spot. You can see the ‘heavy loads’ of the white calcium bicarbonate deposits on the shoreline, between these two locations, in satellite view on my topo map. And the ‘water high’ at Fritz’s hole is 10-20 feet deep.

    For my Baker’S Hole solve, and this line of the Poem:

    “There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
    Just heavy loads and water high.”

    There is a y-shaped creek, surrounded by a true ‘forest fen’, just across the Madison River from that spot. My interpretation is that Forrest is telling us to avoid that ‘no place for the meek’.

    I will post your video below, Dal…

      • Lisa…..thanks for reminding me of that video Dal did. The twinkle in Forrest’s eyes and child like grin on his face when he recalls catching that big Brown on Hebgen lake is priceless! I think I love it so much because I had a similar experience once. January, shallow water, thought I hooked a log until that big Brown took off! 24″er taken on a 3/4 rod with 6x tippet! I’m glad my hubby was there because he never would have believed me. Only bummer was neither one of us had a phone so no pic! That’s OK….that moment is forever burned in my memories! 🙂

    • Dal – The y-shaped marshy creek area fits these Poem lines, IMO:

      “From there it’s no place for the meek,
      The end is ever drawing nigh.
      There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
      Just heavy loads and water high.”

      – Because ‘it’s’ could be ‘IT•S’, where my ‘IT’ as the ‘Madison River’ meets by backwardS bike ‘S’ blaZe/blaSe at Baker’S Hole.

      – The ‘end’ could be that suspicious interpretive sign on the Baker’s Hole shoreline. And then ‘ever drawing’ could be that Eric Sloane (aka Everard) created the scene depicted on it, in the early 1980s, when the sign was probably created (see: my comment about that FFF logo in the lower right hand corner).

      – Maybe?:

      ‘There’ll > ‘There will’ > ‘There William’ > ‘There Wiliam Marvin Fenn’

      Does that identify the ‘your creek’ as one of Forrest’s/his Dad’s secret fishing holes? Or is the ‘your’ more like, ‘y•our’ creek, because the y-shaped creek is inside the YNP boundary, and is ‘our creek’ in a park for the people?

      Hmmmm…what do you think?

      • Lisa

        Why are you fixed on Baker’s Hole, if you dont mind me asking?

        Just curious.

        • Big Onus – Just vetting my Baker’S Hole solve here, so I can ‘go with confidence’. Even Seeker cannot seem to disprove it.

          • I like how you think Lisa, I was just wondering how you arrived on location in the first place.

            Just being nosy.

          • Big Onus – Forrest’s recommendation of Baker’s Hole Campground. Here on HOD, on the Places to Stay and Eat thread. The part about the Grizzes being able to easily cross the tributaries on the Madison River there. To get to the garbage dump to eat. Where the KWYS airstrip is now.

            Lots of ‘braided streams’ there.

          • Big Onus – Then I found the Big Fat S-curvr, with the YNP boundary running through it. Which makes it look like this: $

            Only a mirror image. The bottom of which is across the Madison River, and easily accessible from the ‘end’ of the Boundary Trail, which is ‘3 English Miles’ from the Fennhaven Cabins on Boundary Street. That last bit is from the map key on Robert Louis Stevenson’s “Treasure Island” map.

            Didn’t Wallace Beery play Long John Silver in that “Treasure Island” movie?

            The interpretive sign on the Baker’s Hole shoreline depicts what looks like an island, across the way. It is actually a pennisula of land, shaped like a thumb. Or, maybe, the head of a Sperm whale. Right, Mr. Melville? Wasn’t Moby Dickens bookstore, where Forrest did a great book signing and interview, in Taos, Dal? Didn’t RLS know Herman Melville?

          • Lot going on there Lisa, I understand. Just curious as to why people hit locations. A lot of people just guess and begin. Begin, by the way can mean found, and the correct mix of metals is like bronze is like baking a cake. A bakers hole is an oven, foundry. I am not saying I subscribe to your location, I am just adding to your thought process. It may or may not help.

          • Big Onus – Well, baking soda, aka Sodium bicarbonate, is a necessary ingredient to bake a cake. Here’s that cake analogy Q/A quote:

            Dear Forrest,

            You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is:

            a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and
            b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”

            Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail? ~ Steve

            No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?

            Giggles. Is Sodium bicarbonate used in founding bronze?

          • I am no baker or foundry man Lisa, but there might be a resolve hidden in there somewhere.

            I am no nearer to finding it than you so take what I say with a pinch of salt. Forgive the pun. 😉

          • BigOnus – Get it? Loch ‘Leven’ trout?:

            “A biscuit is a flour-based baked food product. Outside North America the biscuit is typically hard, flat, and unleavened; in North America it is typically a soft, leavened quick bread.”

            That biscuit recipe: you need cold milk and cold butter. And that’s a ‘basin’. Could that ‘Biscuit Basin’ be WWWH?


      • I thinks that’s a good interpretation of the poem. Marvin is in there too. My spouse thinks I’m crazy but if you read it differently, and look at it differently, it seems there’s lots of stuff hidden in the poems words.

    • Dal – Correction: calcium carbonate deposits, from the Spring Creek-like ‘chalk’ that ‘halts’ and precipitates out from the calcium bicarbonate filled ‘warm waters’, where the Firehole and Gibbon Rivers are ‘married’ (per Howard Back, in his 1938 fly fishing classic, with ‘waters’ in the title), to form the Madison River.
      See also ‘fossiferous lime’ in relation to ‘calcium carbonate’:

      “I hope they will fish, look for fossils, turn rotten logs over to see what’s under them, and look for my treasure.” – f

      • Seeker – Check out my ‘gold tooth’ pin on Google Earth in my profile ‘Smil•e’ face, which looks like the one Forrest always draws in his signature:

        Do you think that is a bridge made of those ‘rotten logs’ Forrest is suggesting we turn over in that quote?

        Big ‘S•mile’! Walk a ‘mile’ in my shoes? That fly fishing trail, along the Baker’S Hole shoreline, maybe?

        • Seeker – Old Fritz was sitting on the chin, to rest, when I first saw him, in late August of 2019. It was around Noon, and already hot. And he went out drinking in West Yellowstone, the night before, he said. From a distance, I wondered if he was Forrest.

  47. This remains a tricky line in the Poem. There will be no paddle up your creek; just heavy loads and water high.
    The fact he used the word ” just” refers to an area that is higher than where you are currently standing and describes what is up there… So is that all there is, Just heavy loads and water, and is there no treasure? The next few lines in the poem indicate that the blaze is above the chest, so perhaps the blaze is up the creek where the heavy loads are…. It’s a 50/50 shot unless you are RONDO the dudie ….Heads it is, What do you all think? If it’s Heads , then it would be up the creek, because Head water is higher up in Hydrology. Something to Ponder… But if all there is is Just heavy loads and water than that means the chest is down the creek?

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