Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…


Please click on the comment balloon below to contribute to the discussion of  Forrest Fenn’s Treasure Hunt. Please note that many topics have their own pages. Please scroll through the blog to see all the discussion pages. There are also stories, scrapbooks, searcher’s reports general information, tips from Forrest, a rumors blog and even email responses from Forrest. So please look around and if you want to make a comment please use the most appropriate page.








343 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…

  1. This blog is non-political and non-religious…It is also Coronavirus and CoVid-19 free…

    That means comments about politics, religion, Coronavirus or CoVid-19 will be removed.

    This blog is about the search for Forrest’s hidden chest. There are other blogs to discuss those other topics. Please use them for those comments…not this one.

    Addendum on April 4th
    I added a page just for comments about how we are coping with coronavirus:


    • Hmm….let’s see if I can make an addition to the chase.
      Some time ago I managed to track down a possible break of the house of brown, after some research I scratched that first possible breakthrough.
      The House / Home of Brown is actually called: Casa de Las Nubes. English translation meaning: house of the clouds, wherein Eric Sloane built for himself in the northwest part of Santa Fe. (Oh it’s for sale for nearly $2.5 million) .
      There’s no way in the world that this is where the chest is hidden, nor is there a creek or river nearby to stash said treasure.
      My second thought was to research the many names of the word Brown that is in use in New Mexico.
      The one that is overlooked in many items that is floating around the net is: Cimarron….
      My thoughts have centered on only one possible breakthrough with the clue; is that this house of brown would have to be a permanent fixture upon the landscape…one that’s not gonna change for many centuries to come…..
      Cimarroncito…..the mountain.
      Dal, a couple of months back I sent you an email, stating that I have a possible solution to the Chase. This break is the only one that makes any sense to the clue.
      To put in below the house/ home of brown, means that it’s below the mountain top., or south of the mountain.
      Thx for reading my ramble.

  2. I hope everyone is safe and sound during this unexpected alteration in our everyday lives.
    I really makes me realize how much we have to be thankful for.

    Thank you Forrest and Dal for the diversion, great time to reflect on what matters the most. To me it’s family and relationships, not monetary gain or material possessions.

    Good health and be safe.

    • Ya! It’s awesome! There’s an episode about a guy who hides a Treasure in the wilderness and they……… Hey, wait a minute…

    • Yep it’s a cool episode but might and might not have a connection been discussed here various times . But something to keep in the back of your FF journey/journal…

  3. Dal – if I might ask a “what if” question of you.
    What if this Chase does have a religious connection?
    Can you say for certain (per Forrest) that it does not?
    Hopefully you won’t “poof” me and make me disappear.

    • I do not think it’s a religious connect at all!!!!
      I think and 100% personally believe it is a Forrest Fenn Connection. The place geographically, physically and numismatic. Someday this will be proven…

    • WWW-

      In reply to your question…
      I wish that everyone was respectful when commenting on the blog…
      If that were the case I would not have to moderate or edit…

      But that’s not the case…You will simply need to have that discussion on some other blog or forum…

      Let me explain-

      It’s been tested here on several occasions..
      Religious and political discussions have each and every time turned into uncivil, heated arguments between polarized debaters and easily slipped away from any chase related relevance to the arcane, dehumanizing and pointless…
      Useful discussions turn into endless battles between believers and non-believers, conservatives and progressives…
      Finally arriving at dispirited loathing and name calling.
      And to make matters worse some folks thrive on that stage…jump into the fray, pile on… and for that reason look to sidetrack a healthy conversation and stir the pot.

      I don’t want to see that on this blog anymore.

      The folks here on this blog are simply the best…
      They are interested, imaginative, contributive and respectful.
      But after nine years administering this blog I know that many humans when hiding behind screen names are not respectful of others.
      Right now there are a few hundred folks banned for lack of respect and a hundred or more in moderation because they have demonstrated a lack of interest in following the blog rules…

      I trust the folks who daily comment on this blog to act fairly for the common good of solving the riddle of the poem. I merely scan their daily comments…missing many…
      In contrast, I read every single moderated comment to determine if it contributes to the conversation. I don’t enjoy putting folks in moderation because it means more editing by me…more time editing means less time writing…

      Editing also means that every day I toss 10-20 comments by trolls and nutcases into the trash…everything from comments about all searchers being greedy jerks just stealing god’s gold… to some nutcase who keeps hearing voices on his unplugged TV telling him about how evil we all are and wants me to make the voices stop…
      I see death threats to Forrest and his family and I see messages from folks who demand that I tell them where the chest is hidden.

      I toss hundreds of spam comments into the trash…
      Sometimes I don’t see them and they get onto the blog…
      This all takes time to sort out…
      I’m not interested in adding to my editing workload

      I’m also not interested in this blog becoming an unmoderated free-for-all..
      I respect decorum, common sense and practical limits…

      Discussions which soon plummet to name calling, heated arguments and belittling the deeply held beliefs and sensitivities of others are not tolerated here.

        • Dal,
          Thank you for 9 years of unselfish & thoughtful dedication to operating this excellent TTOTC treasure blog.

          I’ve followed here 7 years and without exception find you to be fair, on point & reasonable…not to mention your gift for story telling. I appreciate your time given freely to administering this blog which must be frustratingly humorous behind the scenes. The times I’ve landed in moderation have been purposeful, reminding me to cite references, on the correct threads, etc.
          I also appreciate your not-so-fun daily task sifting through nut case comments, inappropriate language, heated bickering, and possible threats. Thank you for allowing non TTOTC religious expression on the poetry page. I’m one who does read veiled references to Forrest’s spiritual beliefs in the poem, but like you have witnessed how quickly opposing beliefs derail that type of discussion here and in life.

          I know you are not fishing for complements but honestly I can’t think of a better person to put up with a wide swath of humanity, all anxious to discuss their ideas, all competing for the same prize.

          Thank you Dal.

      • Thank you Dal!

        Without you, I never would have found the chase and I hope that you know how much myself and everyone appreciates what you do for us!

        What you provide for us isn’t just a blog anymore. It’s sort of a way of life, now! I look forward to reading people’s comments and ideas every day!!

        I’ve often thought about what will happen to this blog once the treasure is found and honestly, it saddens me. There are people on here that I feel I’ve come to know quite well and I wonder if at some point it will all just vanish away. I’d like that not to happen.

        Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that you are very much appreciated!! I know that if I’m fortunate enough to find indulgence I want to share some with you!!

        Stay safe, everyone!!


      • Dal,
        You have done an amazingly effective job at keeping the trash out, imo. In fact, I have barely noticed any rowdiness. Just great random thought provoking ideas. Thank you! 🙂

      • Dal – Thank you so much for responding.
        I was not trying to stir up a hornet’s nest.
        Just wondering how silly we would feel if there was some sort of connection and we had “avoided” discussing it.
        Your job as administrator has to be relentlessly aggravating at times but also joyously rewarding sometimes too.
        Appreciate all you do – your efforts will be worth the cold.

      • Unless you know the correct solve, how can a subject of discussion be forbidden here? I understand sometimes people cause problems during a discussion, so why not band the disruptive poster? Heck, over the past 7 years I’ve heard a lot of unnecessary or rude comments by someone ( not related to the current discussion)… I’ve seen it on many topics, including the WWWH Page. Should that topic of discussion be forbidden here also? It makes no sense to me. IMO, if a topic is forbidden here , and we can only discuss certain topics , this thing may never be figured out… there are scrapbooks, presented by Forrest that suggest religion could be involved… the Riliquary cross, churches in paintings, are examples. I’m not going to name them all, but they are there none the less… look back through them and jot down how many are related to religion, catholic, Virgin Mary, etc… even politics, senator’s, government etc…
        So IMO, until the correct solve is known, forbidding topics such as these is kinda like having pieces missing from a puzzle.
        The problem lies in the disruptive posters not the subject… heck, can’t anyone disagree with another persons opinion anymore without being rude and ugly?
        Troublemakers should be forbidden, this is suppose to be fun and rewarding, not the topic in my opinion….
        I guess what I’m saying is, don’t limit topics according to personal preferences Or a few bad apples in the basket…..
        That my 2 cents on this. Take it with a grain of salt…….


        • Focused, your on the right track and so is Dal, when he said “I’m also not interested in this blog becoming an unmoderated free-for-all..
          I respect decorum, common sense and practical limits…

          Discussions which soon plummet to name calling, heated arguments and belittling the deeply held beliefs and sensitivities of others are not tolerated here.”

          The point of view or subject thereof should be made as liberal as it can without a smell or snif test getting in the way, you know a fly in the ointment analogy.

          In the Epilogue of the Thrill Book, it seems clear who Forrest reveres and gives praise too at the end, double omega, in life and death, it is William Marvin Fenn, whose funeral was held at the large First Baptist Church in Temple, Texas, to say that a metaphor of a place in the Rockies that could be his church but we cannot use it as a place of spiritual significance that would be a disgrace, so that is why it should not be off limits in my opinion of the possible place, known as the basin WWWH. It is peaceful even if religious? Something posted so clearly by Forrest yet so offensive to some? Clearly political correctness has run afoul of me.


          • I have had TROLLS posting stuff on some of my Youtube videos, yet I let them be known for the shallowness of their comment on stands in contrast of my accomplishments, this is available if you read below some of my posts here is one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-GD4vhA3No
            the trolls are small people and I am reminded of “Teddy Roosevelt” speech

            “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”

            Go Teddy! TT

          • TT,

            Maybe Dal can open a topic room for just that sort of discussion? Call it “Possible religious connections? That way those whom feel that it might be can discuss it and the ones that don’t, well, they don’t have to waste their time!?


            My 2 cents…


          • That’s a great idea ByGeorge… then those who wish to enter can and those who wish not wont…. I doubt that page will become reality, but it would be a simple solution… thank you for suggesting it….
            Have a great night…. see ya my friend

    • Several of Mr Terrifics WWWH antics without Question have gone away, especially the ones about 3 Crosses and a basin? But someone has to draw the line somewhere since ff has self-described as a type of reforming Baptist/Conservative…

      That is why Winter Thoughts II, The astonishing Scrapbook reveal is not going out on the Ides of March as propagated.

      Spiritual is apparently Religiously inflammatory. We shall see how long that lasts.


        • A soft answer turneth away wrath…So why is “Important Literature” both important and a hint when it is written with the influence of Salinger in a Holden C. tone. To prove where the borders are in this, a spiritual message, that is Where Warm Waters Halt. If you can find it, you can have it.
          “Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.” Oscar Wilde
          “Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.”
          Mahatma Gandhi
          “Any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.” John Donne
          Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is a gift of God, which is why we call it the present.”
          ― Bill Keane… I thinks this is WWWH in ff’s dream, now if I can only prove it.

          Thank’s Focused, we all need to be seen for the little voices and tiny stick figures we are, that is what makes up a great nation. One comedian at a time, U are focused and I feel Terrific!


      • Could it be that Dal wants the discussion(s) not to wander too far
        from the subject of this treasure hunt? I think that would be
        reasonable. Otherwise, people would bore others with talk about
        their favorite sweater color for their pet turtle (or something
        equally exciting). There are other forums available for just about
        any subject you want to discuss. And yes, I like a variety of
        foods that aren’t just spaghetti and meatballs. As always, IMO.

    • Sounds like I’m done here….. I’m a “loner” when it comes to my solve so I write on the poetry page so that I can interact with like minded searchers..without that page I’m mute… there is only so much poetry a person can Pen about the chase…. my mind is not a one track mind….sorry guys…

      Until it’s found…. see ya

  4. Big thanks to meBigGuy for those map links on the prior Odds & Ends. They were terrific… but not as detailed as I’d hoped for. Guess auto tourism between Casper-Laramie-Boulder in the 1940’s was a mite rustic …. but still maybe attractive to 2 gutsy kids on their own. Thanks again for the links to a very interesting site. OS2

    • I used them to determine possible routes between Temple and Yellowstone and studied WWWH, etc in those areas. Potential campsites, side trips, interesting routes, etc. Did not yield anything useful for me, though.

  5. Dal,

    I was concerned I was missing new posts on this new page of the Odds and Ends thread. But it appears the First Stanza thread has turned out to be quite the craze. I am posting this here in order to subscribe to this page. Is there a way to subscribe to new pages without having to post? If so I am unfamiliar with how to go about that. Your help is greatly appreciated. Thanks for the First Stanza thread too!


  6. Taking words at their basics.
    Begin = Alpha
    Warm = middle
    Halt = Omega

    The remaining words might be the “rest of the story?”

    There are 13 letters left
    Could that possibly mean 13 letters of the alphabet?
    Or could it mean B as treasure hunters use B as a 13?
    That means that one is near the area or on the right tract perhaps.

    Or could It mean 3 particular things? like Springs?
    One which begins at the end (halt) of another with a third in the middle of the two?
    Or entrance, exit, middle between?
    Or the middle of alphabet = M (Mu in Greek alphabet)
    Or take off, flying, landing
    Or departure, drive, arrive

    Real words at their most basic might be a way to figure out the poem, perhaps?
    If so, it might help knowing to look at “bits as a whole” as opposed to words Individually maybe?

    Just theorizing again.

    • Another word basic could be the word “it”
      One of the synonyms of it is draw
      Could draw mean
      Black and white
      And if so does that link to the words at the beginning or end or to canyon or waters?
      Like there is a Dark Canyon Draw, for instance in NM. on the Pecks and great fishing near Hamilton Mesa and south of Kennedy ______..

      Just more thinking of sentence-word- bits as a whole

    • Ants and eleph-ants, logic and logical.
      I find the short length of poem words made that effort seem fruitless, but hadn’t thought about letter shapes.

      • I had fun playing around with this for ages. Like in north English dialect “But, t’ risk ant..” tarry scant and ” York west two seas”. My imagination goes into overdrive at times. I even joked with myself ff did not eat meat for late dinner. “as I vegan..” As I have gone.. but knew its was just madness.

        Anyway, I had a dream ff was upset with me messing with his poem so made a promise to behave!

        People seem to be looking for a one channel route to solve this poem, but I believe it has multi layers and needs a mixture of good thinking, mapping, imagination, understanding and creativity to develop and then fit the parts together. Bit like a Cubic rube.

        All in my opinion. I am no nearer solving this than you guys, so take what I say with a pinch of salt.

  7. As I have g on e al on e in there. As I have the grale.
    g (r=are) a le, As I have the ale. (ale spelled wrong, explains when he was sick, the start of the idea).

    Are you starting to break down the poem 42, or have you always approached the poem this way? It’s confusing for those who don’t see it but easy as hell for those that do. All 24 lines can be broken down this way. Not saying it’s the way to go, just very interesting.

  8. I’d like to point out a relatively new vlog to those who have not already found it.
    “Smell the Sunshine”

    This guy is examining Forrest’s writings in a fascinating style that I find very enjoyable.

    He doesn’t really identify himself beyond a brief “about” page. I don’t think he is anyone here on the blog but he has created a very intriguing set of eleven short videos that look at Forrest under a unique “literary” light. He unveils several interesting ideas that I have not heard anyone discuss before…

    I don’t think you have to watch them in any particular order. I watched the most recent one first and then watched the others randomly…


    • Pretty interesting videos. Makes you think a little harder and look at angles you might not have prior. Anything that keeps me busy in this Washington state shut down.

    • Thanks Dal! I can’t comment enough on how much you do for the search community here on your blog. It’s truly appreciated. I’ll definitely take a look. It’ll be nice to have a fresh perspective to ponder.

    • Thank you Dal! It’s a great channel. The created playlists are very good too! Lots of stuff to learn there also. It’s going to be an interesting search season this Summer. Keep them posts coming!

  9. My thought on anagramming is it is a waste of time when it comes to “solving” the location of the cache. Anagrams are the epitome of confirmation bias because invariably the results of anagramming provides several choices from among the various permutations of letters which form the words returned. Of course the searcher will choose those words which “seem” to have relevance to the chase, and thereby reinforce their biases regarding the “correct” meaning to be gleaned from the anagrammed letters. This is the definition of confirmation bias. If your solve involves anagrams, I think you’d serve yourself well to re-examine your ideas, especially if the anagram provides the impetus for the epiphany regarding the clue. IMO.

    • Ronnylee … I think you are quite correct.

      Several years ago I went down the anagram road. Not content just to find “Yellowstone” spelled out in some line or stanza, I tried finding other place names. Among the locations I found in the poem were “Capetown South Africa”.

      In lines 1 and 2 of the poem, the searcher can find “Darwin, Australia”. I rather doubt that either of these two cities has anything to do with the treasure hunt. 🙂

      You can find almost any place name you want if you are willing to expand your letter chain to phrases, poem lines, or the entire poem.

      Further, looking for anagrams is actually a search for confirmation, and that search does indeed lead to confirmation bias.

      Ken (in Texas)

    • I agree Ron. When I needed confirmation of my solve I spent days deep in this hole. Grown beard, unbathed, I emerged with anagrams solved that were frankly beautiful and all in line with BOTG locations and directions of my voyage of discovery.

      I then took a block of the same text and made something just as compelling but polar opposite to what I wanted it to say. Beautiful again.

      It is there if you want it to be, but it will not lead you to the chest though, IMO.

      Having said that, I must profess, there is one small piece of text that I struggled to make work on anything else except the general area of my solve. May be serendipity again. I could only work on this knowing my location though, so no starting point.

      Anagrams are fun.

    • Most people are totally lousy at making anagrams. I shouldn’t have to say you can’t have any letters left over, but people are soooo lousy at making anagrams they don’t even know that basic rule.

      I often read people’s petulant opinion about anagrams because they can’t even make a single good one. Why bother knocking them when you can’t do them?

      Should I believe those people must be much more intelligent in some different mysterious way? Or should I just assume that person gave up in misery and is whining out loud?

      • So…are you saying you’re a fan of anagrams or not? Im not really sure by your statements.
        I’m not pouting over anagrams—I just offered an opinion for entertainment’s sake. That opinion is…they are a scrambled pile of letters that can confirm biases pretty well, but beyond that, you might as well read tea leaves or cast yarrow straws to divine the location of the heavy loads. Whatever floats your boat is certainly fair practice because it’s your boat after all. Some like to row, some prefer to sail, some enjoy motoring, and some will swear the best mode of aquatic perambulation is sculling in a coracle.

        • If I tried to dissuade anybody from following their preferred methodology to solve the Chase, I would be banned from this site or at least be put on moderation.

          We can disagree, no problems. But if you want to condescend, I will again protest. There was no “I think” or “IMO” in your assertions.

          Peace. I am sensitive when it comes to seven years of work.

          • Muset, RonnyLee, I wouldn’t discount FF’s use of an anagram, but I think it would be playful, and taken from a word or two used in the Epilogue Chapter where he used ‘flutterby’ as an example of a little bit for learning more. I always liked that ‘attributed’ was ‘a dirt butte.’

      • I admit I would probably stink at anagrams if I ever cared about trying them. But why in the world would you create a brand new set of infinite possibilities when the goal is to narrow down an already seemingly insurmountable combination of variables to find a small box in the mountains? You chisel away at a stone until you find the beautiful statue that’s hidden underneath. You don’t go out and buy 10,000 more blocks and hope that maybe one of them looks like a beautiful naked woman playing a harp. (Well, maybe some of you would!)

        You can hate me two times if you like but even Mr. Mojo Risin would tell you how easy it is to scramble words to make them into something that suits your purpose. I’m sure they’re fun but using them to solve Fenn’s riddle is folly.

  10. Anagrams introduce chaos. Turning one into many. You can’t take an IKEA instructions manual, reassemble THAT anyway you like, and call your original result furniture… At least not without you and your relatives catching raised eyebrow disease. But fenn may know someone who knows someone who could display it in an art gallery.

    However, there is something on marrying locations of a map: names are a bit more permanent than natural landmarks. But they present a challenge since names refer to general areas. How could the clues get you closer to the treasure? Exactly how? Do they necessarily?

    Is the poem 1. a slide in a childrens park where you only have to be at the top to toboggan down to the chest? 2. or is it a long string with 9 knots glued to the ground? 3. or a tumbler lock where the nine parts have to be right to hear that click? 4. or an architected maze one must rebuild to find its secret passages? 5. ?

    If you wanted for it to be found or not, you’d tailor these design decisions to that goal.

    • I did an exercise on this blog where I had posters throw out exact directions to a bar/restaurant only using “landmarks” not street names, no “numbers” nothing like 32nd ave sort of thing…

      when that was done, I used the best parts of all and made a “description map”, I think 80% of people could find the restaurant from this description map, then I spent all of 15 mins obfuscating it, it still was the same directions, just slightly changed the names/words to be less obvious but seeing the two it was decipherable to anyone… when I was done, I wouldn’t even be able to find the restaurant if only seeing the second one…. when ff was done he thought it was too easy and spent 15 years (or so) making it harder… (ouchie)

      that is what we are dealing with, so it can be as straight forward as one wishes in your examples… not going to be of use unless we think the right thoughts though.

    • Hi Snails,

      IKEA doesn’t ask its customers to find a treasure at the end of their dead-simple instructions.

      Chaos can be controlled with rules and constraints if you can imagine applying some of those to the methodology. Start by discovering a key word, for example.

      Names are actually less permanent on a map than actual geographical features, in my experience. For examples, Gardner River was once called Warm Springs Creek; Electric was once call Horr; Corwin Springs was once La Duke Hot Springs; and the land owner tried to rename Devil’s Slide to Angel’s Ascent.

      Good luck and I hope you enjoy your quest to find a logical and consistent methodology.

  11. As of yesterday evening, the entire state of Colorado is now on stay-at-home lockdown order until at least April 11th. Being the most populous of the search-states, I guess it doesn’t surprise me that it would be the first one to do this. (Though I’m a bit annoyed that this was suddenly announced yesterday evening and went into effect at 8:00 am this morning, giving businesses zero time to make any arrangements. A minimum 24 hour heads-up would have been more in the realm of sensible, IMHO.)

    I won’t be surprised if something similar kicks in for New Mexico relatively soon. Wyoming and Montana may be sparsely populated enough to ride this out without a full lockdown (much fewer cases in both of those states at the moment), but we’ll see how it goes. Hoping that whatever happens, everything is squared away in time for search season.
    Stay healthy, everyone!

    • Blex – Without getting into the CV pandemic ( I don’t want Dal to X us! LOL!) it does indeed obviously, as you have stated, effect the search community. I feel like this year has presented some interesting thoughts and possible solves from many searchers who are more then ready to get out and test them. We can only hope that by the time search season is in full swing, things will be under control. Otherwise, it may prove to be a total bust this year for of us.

      I’m not sure I could endure another full year of brain work and no counter balance of BOTG! LOL!

      • Relax= Your mind and thoughts your study, dig deep if we can not botg look at us all as being equal unless we all have the same opportunity. Rest easy I think all will be well once the snow and mud are no more .. be well all!!

    • BLEX,,
      OF COURSE, dont know your loc. in CO., but in S.
      Co. cept for gov, and some reduced hrs by some retail,
      lt almost biz as usual.
      COURSE, as far as N Co is concerned, we’re part of NM anyway.

    • Blex …

      I don’t think any stay-at-home or lockdown “order” prevents interstate or intrastate travel.

      In other words, how would this so-called “order” render highway traveling through Colorado a crime?

      Ken (in Texas)

      • Ken (in Texas) – Yeah, I haven’t seen any enforcement in place whatsoever, but who knows? This situation seems to be changing day by day. In Colorado, the order came from the Governor and the only enforcement guidance they included was something along the lines of “we encourage local jurisdictions to enforce as they see fit” which is barely anything. Lots of people are still ignoring and doing whatever they want, so I see something coming up soon in terms of a bigger crackdown. I’ve been talking to friends in France, and they have police issuing fines to people who don’t observe the stay-at-home order.

        Anyways, sorry I rambled there. The main point I wanted to make here was that this virus IS starting to affect the search-states, so Chasers should just double-check what’s going on where before locking in travel plans.

      • Dialysis staff and patients were issued “Curfew” (permission to pass thru travel restricted area) letters 2 days ago. Navajo Nation in AZ with travel restrictions, Southern Ute Nation in Colorado eyeing same. No stopping or parking on side of road in San Juan County CO strictly enforced by Sheriff. Pass thru San Juan County only. Many back country closures in LaPlata county. That’s just our local news in southwest CO as it is evolving. Advice would be to check local road closures, back country closures and restrictions before you travel.

  12. Can someone please tell Cynthia to spray that umbrella with bear spray,
    cover as many bases as you can is the way I sees it! 🙂

    • Umbrella??? Late afternoon poncho! Find a piñon tree and hold on tight!! Those little storms are a kicker. No Griz though

  13. Forrest always signs off with .f
    Period no space lower case f
    Perio is defined as
    investing or surrounding a tooth
    ….hmmm into the teeth of the rockies..
    Loco, you got that full quote handy my friend?

  14. I was reading an article about how people are praying to Saint Corona because she is supposed to be the patron saint of epidemics. In the article was interesting sentence (see below) and I found myself praying to her anyway. 🙂

    “However, some reports say that while Corona is indeed a saint, she is the patron saint of treasure hunters and has nothing to do with epidemics, a scholar told the National Catholic Reporter,noting that St. Edmund or St. Roch are the proper saints instead”.

    • Wow, that’s a really interesting find, Sparrow!

      According to Wikipedia: “She is invoked in connection with superstitions involving money, such as gambling and treasure hunting.”

      She was apparently martyred by being tied to two bent palm trees and torn apart. Yeesh! Talk about a double omega!

  15. In my comfortable place again, I can’t help analyzing word selection… Is a break a halt?
    In TTOTC a grandma makes a pie on her break (pg 43) , and the “old gray-haired lady” on pg 33 sells broken pies 2 for a nickel. Are grandmas and pies a reference to a warm & comfortable place amid the breaks and thickets?

    • Shame its only one entry Dal. I have many fascinating things. Hard to decide what my most favorite is! A lot I buy to sell on but I can never let go.

    • I hope I win, I could really use a brand new car from a Santa Fe dealership of my choice! Thanks Forrest and Dal!

      ……… What, you did say there may be a prize didn’t ya. 🙂

      Pauley T

  16. After the weak chinned Gilbert Stuart painting came the De Hory period…or was it before? Just trying to get timeline perspective while smelling the sunshine.

    • Where I grew up, smelling the sunshine was not pleasant to me… some called it the sweet smell of success – or money… and then would come the time to spread a little of that sunshine out on the fields which exacerbated the problem. 😉
      In all seriousness now though, I do like that we are seeing more sunshine these days and hope it helps with stopping the stupid virus.
      I wish all searchers, plenty of sunshine, good health and safe adventures this summer.

  17. Sometimes we just do not see the Forrest for the BOx Elder Maple family trees, well, like the Maple leaf he stole or found on the White House Lawn on 11/11/1973 Why did ff use this?…https://dalneitzel.com/2019/10/13/scrapbook-two_hundred-thirteen/ … I looked up the date and found this :

    Vietnam War, U.S. involvement (1964–1973)
    Détente (c. 1969–1979)
    Watergate scandal (1972–1974)

    In 2001 Gerald Nicosia authored “Home to War: A History of the Vietnam Veteran’s Movement.”

    “https://www.voanews.com/usa/day-history-last-us-combat-troops-withdraw-vietnam..March 29, 1973. Last American Troops left NAM.

    Or was there something else about this Scrapbook we missed? “For a while now, I’ve been on a history kick, trying to think of ways I can influence the thinking of folks in the future. All sorts of ideas are coming in. One of the best involves plant life.f”

    I think we need to ask Shiloh for insight here.


    • Hmmm… interesting. Makes me think of other scrapbooks… don’t quote me, but one photo in a post involved a large blooming bush (Hydrangea? – can’t remember) and then the weeds with flowers on them that made Forrest comment on what the difference between what constituted a weed and and flower when they both could be beautiful. Or even the trees in his back yard, or other photos from around his home that emphasize his love of nature and wood – (his nature art as well as leaving wood outside to be effected by nature and enhancing natural colors). Herbs and spices in his kitchen drawer (plants)
      Maybe you have something there.

        • Muset, was it not your research in SC BOOK from Chris that allowed us all to find the exact Laos Longitude and Lat?

          GO read the Longitude and call me when you have read SC 106 and the Holy Field may be a hint to the exact spot where these Cross, it is uncanny.


          • Hi Tom,

            It wasn’t really much research. It took about fifteen minutes to find the conversion algorithm online. But then it was really cool to zoom to the spot and see how it looks.

            Even still, the video of finding the plane showed those bluffs as being way more dramatic than they look on Google Earth. Now THAT was some serious adventure.

            I’ll try and read 106. I tried a few times already but strangely I just can’t focus on what is written there, possibly because it never gets to the point. My brain and graces are more like an elephant than a damaged caterpillar, I suppose.

            Good luck and grand adventures this summer.

      • OK, that is what you see, neither of us is an arboriculturist, and it’s not actually that important or necessary to know the tree spices, but what is vital is WHY he saved it and how it relates to WHERE he got it, and even WHEN, that is the point.

        In 211 SCrapbook he struck a box elder maple, in front of Shiloh’s Bunk House, so what reflection/connection might one gleam from a broken mirror ie “Requiem for a Wreck? He mentions the broken mirror again and Me Bobby McGee in SC #219 at the CHILI LINE at Christs Church, Then in SC Book 235 Me and Bobby McGee again, and these are not dreams, they are written by the Oracle himself for all to see.


    • Was wondering if I still had permission to pass through and be a heck of a lot sweeter if someone wanted to ride along just so I don’t take a wrong turn and get stuck !

  18. Regarding Anagrams…
    They’re fun, But I seriously doubt anyone will solve the poem correctly simply with Anagrams. It’s my opinion that Forrest is absolutely clever enough to have built into his poem a few “confirming” anagrams.

    By example. Let’s play a game.
    using “tarry scant”
    as our anagram confirmer

    What BROWN animal or reptile should you tarry scant near when it gives a “scary tant” ?

    As stated, IMO the anagrams won’t solve it, but may offer a confirming hint or warning of danger IF YOU HAVE ALREADY SOLVED TO the correct location.

    “ You will ignore the poem TO YOUR OWN PERIL.”
    Forrest Fenn, on Mysterious Writings


    • I agree that the anagrams help to confirm the clues in the poem. But they are much more clever than just a couple of words within a single line, IMO. I really believe each full line must be used to create 24 anagrams in total.

      The particular line with “tarry scant” produces one of my favorite anagrams in the set. But it is useless unless you know all the anagrams before it (from wwwh) and you must be familiar with the place on the ground near to where it references, I do believe.

      Good luck with your own methodology. I hope we all have a good laugh one day soon with somebody’s correct solve.

    • @copperhead, agree. Basin is the important geographical feature, hence “foot tub“ backwards in poem. One has to determine if you’re looking at a smaller basin of which their are thousands in the Rockies, or if ff is hinting to larger form as in Wyoming’s Great Basin.
      I’m bent towards a smaller bowl shape near a butte. How about you?

  19. I feel like the last couple of seasons, I thought of a good place to do a BOTG search the winter before, and then I sort of sat back waiting for the summer. Then when summer rolled around and my BOTG search came up empty, I couldn’t come up with a new solve that I liked during the search season until right after the first snows rolled in that autumn.

    Now that I am fixated on a new solve area that I’m very excited about for this year, I feel like I should take advantage of the extra time at home now and go back to square one before the START of search season just to try and get a backup solve percolating now so that I can try and be more efficient with BOTG-time within the limited search season during this year.

    Has anyone else been thinking along these lines? I have to admit that I’ve been finding it mentally challenging to set aside one idea you are focused on in order to start fresh again.

    • Blex – That is exactly what I have been doing and because I do like 2 of my possible solves, it is very hard to get past that thinking! Because it means starting form scratch in a new area you are not yet familiar with. But I think it’s the smart thing to do because the likely hood of my solves being correct are probably pretty low. Unlike so many others who seem to have such confidence in a correct solve, I always lean in the opposite direction…..like, what are the chances “I” got this right. LOL! That way I’m less disappointed when reality happens! 🙂

      I will say that what I feel I am honing in on is more the process, my beliefs as to what the clues may mean and how to apply that to an area. Of course I always keep an open mind, but some structure does help when planning a new start. It helps me look at an area with that process in mind. I’ve always felt that many, including my self, may be close to the correct process, but not the correct area, or more importantly, the correct WWWHs.

      So to answer your question, I doubt very much that you are alone in your thinking. And as a matter of fact, I’m glad I have the Chase to keep me occupied. So many of my friends are going stir crazy trying to bide time!

      • Geysergirl – Well said! I very much agree that going on a search with a healthy amount of doubt can help mitigate the likely disappoint. It’s tough to keep that self-doubt balanced against Forrest’s assurance of “moving with confidence” against a stubborn determination that you are absolutely right no matter what. I think all of us are constantly wrestling with managing those expectations to some degree or another. Another way I mitigate against possible failure is making sure that every BOTG trip I make will be a worthwhile one even if I turn up empty on no treasure found; I think a lot of us do that as well. I continue to enjoy having the Chase as a fun way to pass the time, and glad it’s still going strong!

        • I suggest everyone bounce their solve off of their smartest
          trusted friend/relative. Sometimes it’s hard for an individual to see their own mistakes. As always, IMO.

          • Seems as tho I have heard that bit of advice several times before. Should we be listening to others? Considering their opinions? Kinda like an author’s proof-reader before his book gets published. What if tho….you bounce your ideas off someone and they sidetrack you into changing course when actually your course was right on?

          • wwwamericana, my niece suggested that Forrest hid the treasure chest under a Brown banana. Probably not the type of thing we would want to bounce off of our friends for fear of getting committed. The kids got a laugh though.

    • yes one needs to absolutely crush every single answer to any clue that they have come up with. if one is not asking “what was I thinking” when going through the answers, then they are doing something wrong… obvious in retrospect, but hard to do before hand…

      i’ve got to a point where after a few days I have to review wwwh’s for a different state, trying to find why I can’t come up with another wwwh that fits better. just to keep from going into total confirmation bias mode.

      • Writis – Agreed! There’s nothing wrong with some quality assurance! Stepping back from your solves for a while and then coming back to review them with a critical eye is extremely helpful in giving yourself some amount of a confidence boost.

    • Blex,

      You are definitely not alone in your thoughts, though admittedly I cannot relate personally. I have the fortunate advantage of not planning for BOTG and os I do not have to pick one location over another. I very much have the advantage of examining any possible location in terms of the Chase, because without having to pick one definitively, any and all are open possibilities.

      I do happen to find some places more interesting than others for various reasons here and there. But I do not really have any reason to lean one way or another or solve bias leading me to sway others in their own thinking. I liken it to maybe being in the position of a referee as opposed to one of the players or the speaker in Parliament over in Britain. And not in a moderator sort of role, but more of a neutral mentality like the Swiss!

      I try to encourage everyone to explore all the possibilities. While it is great to be confident in one solve, what’s the harm in exploring another in the case that that one solve is not correct, as so many have proved to be in years past? Back up plans are always a great idea unless and until you have the chest in hand!

      All IMO.


  20. IT”S A SCAM!!!

    A website listed as http://www.academia.edu is trying to scam searchers out of their email info, contacts and credit card info by advertising a free .PDF copy of TTOTC.

    First they offer the book for free with a “Free Download” button but if you click on that button it takes you to a page where they want you to sign in with your gmail or facebook info…

    After you’ve done that they want you to sign up for an offer for cheap magazine subscriptions…
    That’s where they get your credit card info…

    After that they provide another link to download the book but if you click on it you get an error message…

    So…it’s all a scam to get valuable private info from you. Do not play with them. Do not even go there…

    Here is a description of TTOTC from their website:

    The Thrill of the Chase by by Forrest Fenn
    This The Thrill of the Chase book is not really ordinary book, you have it then the world is in your hands. The benefit you get by reading this book is actually information inside this reserve incredible fresh, you will get information which is getting deeper an individual read a lot of information you will get. This kind of The Thrill of the Chase without we recognize teach the one who looking at it become critical in imagining and analyzing. Don’t be worry The Thrill of the Chase can bring any time you are and not make your tote space or bookshelves’ grow to be full because you can have it inside your lovely laptop even cell phone. This The Thrill of the Chase having great arrangement in word and layout, so you will not really feel uninterested in reading.

    • Thanks for sharing this, dal!

      I’ve been reading a lot of articles lately that new scammers are entering the field to take advantage of people at their most vulnerable during this whole COVID-19 situation. There are new scam emails and websites popping up that don’t look like the usual ones we are used to seeing. I just read an article yesterday about scammers going back to using snail-mail scam techniques again! I sometimes can’t believe the scumbaggery that certain humans can stoop to.

      • One small silver lining in this worldwide situation is our
        telemarketing calls (from “Kevin” etc. in India) have stopped!
        Anyone else notice this?

      • LOL! That’s exactly what I was thinking! The “interesting” use of the English language is almost always a dead give away pointing to a red flag!

        Thanks Dal!

      • Nah, just good old American grifters. We’ve always had a bountiful load of them since we have an abundance of suckers ready for milking….. From Elmer Gantry to P.T.Barnum to….. well, I’d get bounced into moderation if I mentioned any current names.

    • I’m a sucker for those emails that are written by someone for whom English is the language they’re planning on learning next.

    • “… having great arrangement in word and layout, so you will not really feel uninterested in reading.”

      Ain’t that the truth 🙂

    • Dal,

      Maybe you should start a separate Discussion Thread entitled “Scams” where you can share all this info in one place? Would be useful and more easily found.

      Just an idea.

  21. Kindest Sir,
    I find your helpful writings to be most needed in this times. I will be gladdest to hear more of your ideas on these topics. Keep the good works present.
    Yours, dutifully.

    • P.S. I have recently come into a very large sum of money in form of gold coins and priceless antiquities. It is with sadness I must share I have no access from my country to this magnificent windfall. I seek a partner who helps me with conversion of these bountiful assets. They will be rewarded handsomely. Please contact me with much speed to discuss our most beneficial relationship.
      Peace be upon you.

    • Scams everywhere. Even in our minds.
      I scammed myself by thinking my solve(s) were the “correct solve(s)”.
      Of course, they were too good to be true just like a scam and everyone else’s solve(s) !
      Don’t get scammed by anyone or yourself.

      • Don’t be too hard on your search partner (self). My uncle who’s not my uncle told me “raise your hopes to heaven, and keep your boots on the ground”. I get it backwards sometimes.

    • Thanks for link, Dal.
      It was fun for me to read these fairy tales about founded and again hidden treasure 🙂
      It is even more fun than reading numerous stories of so-called “time travellers”. BTW, do you know simplest way to reveal false time-travellers? Just ask them about closest astronomical events like supernova explosion (in our galaxy or outside). Nobody can predict such events and because of giant distance many of these events already happened (light needs hundreds or even thousand years to reach us). For example, if such time-travellers said that we will see Betelgeuse explosion in May 2021 and this event really happened who will not believe that this guy is not real time-traveller?
      Question is how to reveal false TC finders?
      Besides gold and diamonds TC contains Forrest bio. This text definitely contains some unknown facts from Forrest life that were never published and only Forrest know them. These guys can publish a couple of such facts and ask Forrest to prove them.
      I am sure that these guys just copy/paste an idea of so-called “Nigerian letters” or “Nigerian scams”. Problem is that these guys ask $2M for just location information. Searchers are mostly not rich people and we know from Forrest that rich people very rarely participate in the search (so-called “200 feet searcher” according to Forrest didn’t need money but did BOTG just for fun).
      IMO, but main goal of this scam is to suppress motivation for future BOTG in searcher community. If TC already founded and extracted from original location who will plan and do BOTG?
      One more thing: these guy who created this website are scammers and you Dal can contact with FBI and get them arrested for scam. They are stupid if think that website info is problem for FBI. Dal, you can file a lawsuit against website owner(s) for misleading of searchers, scam and attempt to stole money from potential buyers of TC location information.

  22. I dunno. But I read about it. It’s another “yawner” to me. What wouldn’t
    cause me to yawn would be a nice article about how to fix stupid. IMO.

  23. IMO, one of the bells is key to partially unlocking the puzzle. It, IMO, gives us one of the pieces of the jigsaw.

    Master Fenn is a perfectionist for sure, would imagine ALL the bells will actually be in play. Before I begin work on these I was wondering if any of you wise guys had any idea if they were all part of the same jigsaw piece or in fact all separate keys, unlocking other channels?

  24. SMH…baffles me. I read about certain things and can follow along for the most part, but, man, these blue highlighted links that lead you into crazy GE-GE-GENIUS territory is amazing. How on earth do you people communicate with us mere mortals?

    The end is ever drawing nigh? It’s never ending! LOL! We’z getting re-educated! And HOMIE-SCHOOLED! It’s kinda fun to read just because it’s not a rabbit hole, it’s simple amazement!

    Zap(and others), where ever you are, thanks for stopping in every now and then on Terrafirma, cuz you guys are outa this world! You people amaze me. SMH.


        • I recently looked in the mirror noticed the sparcity of landscape upstairs. It appears my hares have bolted, which I thought was a little tight, so I loosened the nut slightly. They are still around making sparadict noise.

          These little black tips do love to box…….especially Mad-March.

  25. – Forrest Fenn treasure customer service, how may I help you?
    – Thank you I’d like to place a complaint
    – Let me transfer you to the complaint department, thank you for choosing the chase and not being a biddie
    *elevator music*
    – hello? You’ve reached the complaint department.

    Does anyone know how many legs does a lead dog have if you call its tail a leg?
    Thank you and have a day.

    • There are a couple written by me in the early #SB. They say “by dal” or “dal” on them. The ones by Forrest all have his sig at the end “f”
      It should be clear which ones I wrote and which ones Forrest wrote…

      • Dal,

        Thanks. I asked because of SB 64. I forget now what led me there. Okay I just remembered. I was looking into Los Alamos. Found it odd that the SB appears to have been written by FFs son? Is this correct? Or am I to take it that FF wrote the SB? I don’t see his signature and I don’t suppose you are the one who wrote it.

        It’s curious because I was wondering if FF had any connect to the national laboratory. Why would his son be attending school in Los Alamos f they live in Santa Fe? Is there an explanation for this? It wasn’t talked about in the comments on that page. Everyone just sort of thought it was a nice story. Any thoughts? Looking forward to further insight.


        • Ann-
          Forrest does not have any sons. Forrest has two daughters. Forrest and Peggy had kids in 1959 and 1960 not the 2000’s.

          SB64 was written by Joseph Archuleta a kid unrelated to Forrest, who lives in Los Alamos.
          That’s the kid that signed the SB at the end and that’s his photo in the SB. He wrote that in an email to Forrest. Forrest liked it and we thought it was better as a SB than as a “Forrest Gets Mail” because it would get more readers that way.

    • You should at least read all the SB’s a few times to expand your rabbit hole experience as most of us do including me.
      My favorite SB is 107.
      What’s yours?

      • Jake,

        I don’t have a good answer to your question at this time as I have only read three of the SBs. I came across this one in a search for looking into FF and the Los Alamos National Laboratory in NM. And, not being familiar with FFs family tree, I wanted to know why his “kid” was attending school in Los Alamos if the family lives in Santa Fe. Struck me as odd and now I know why. Also, I was under the impression that FF wrote the SBs. So also struck me as odd.

        I have a long way to go to read through the rest of them before I can give a reasonable answer to your question. Thanks for asking though!

        All IMO.


  26. A couple of things just crossed my mind about the chase. “If you knew the geographic location of each clue it would be a map to the treasure” said by forrest and also him feeling like an architect when he wrote the poem. So each clue must be a type of an architect’s work and geographic in terminology as well. For instance: not far, but too far to walk would be a near run and a long run. 2 runs can also be the parts of a stream or length of a waterfalls distance down. So from the beginning to canyon down finding the right canyon with 2 runs should be easy to find. IMO

  27. Copper Dan in association with Jenny at Mysterious Writings are running a contest that will give away, completely free, a Copper Dan original …
    Copper Dan’s art is beautiful and this is a unique opportunity to own one at no cost..
    So head over to Jenny’s site…figure out the puzzle and enter the contest…it’s free!!


  28. Dal,

    So is the kid mistaken when he says

    “I chose Forrest Fenn my dad and I got his book The Thrill of the Chase a couple of years ago and got very excited about the buried treasure. ” (SB64)

    Taken at face value, this is rather deceptive, not that it was done on purpose. But clearly you can see how someone, myself included, may be misled without knowing much about FF and his offspring. I thank you for clarifying why it was placed amongst the SB’s and who the author was.


    • Ann-
      He’s a school kid. He had an assignment to research someone in NM. He chose Forrest (with) his dad. They read the book together…

      • Dal,

        Ah okay. The “with” helps immensely. If only FFs subtle hints were as easy! One word can make all the difference! Thanks Dal.


      • Writis,

        And the absence of a comma altogether can be quite telling as well! And that “needs to be” is usually due to some rule book. 🙂


  29. It seems refreshing, pleasing to see the spirit of the chase, especially to review these scrapbooks from posts many in the past, all this review reminds’ what the blaze could be in our imaginations since “it” is something you “must have been wise to see and understand, perhaps from your past, or his past, but it would be much more than just important, it must be an imperative surely a sign we find when we are getting smarter all the time.

    After examining all the possibilities in Q and A for “the blaze” a few just stand out, well like the Great Sand Dunes National Park, mentioned in scrapbook 223, a sign looing quickly down from a lost Pilot that he has a final deliverance from being lost in the Rockies, we all know we can see the Great Sandunes on Google Earth, but it only takes a few low hanging clouds to cause a catastrophe when you are flying blind, you must find a sign for each clue IMO, it must be recognizable, and that may be what our pathway need to locate the TC, so when we find those blazes in a metaphorical sense and geographical it is a spiritual sign, and I will reveal one clearly in this line from SC #223 use your imagination to see how warm this is and why these are so revealing to the search… ”

    Out of the photo, there on the close right is where my mom had a pansy garden that she planted and tenderly tended each summer day. She died while sitting in their Airstream motor home just 10’ north of this photo. A tall pine tree guarded her pansies. The flowers are gone now, and so is my dad. It would be kind of like a toast-of-thanks if I could go there next summer and pour warm water on roots of that pine tree. But I don’t even know if it’s still there.f”

    WHERE WARM WATERS HALT has an obvious “Spiritual Connotation”, he used all three words WWW here in the SC #223 now why would we not SEE this as Important? Anyone who still thinks that ff repurposed WWWH to just have us look, willy nilly, for some geothermal vent in an obscure location is not reading poetry in my Opine, they think this is solved using logic, and it may be partially, geographically but the other layer is deeper, more sublime, Spiritual I would go as far as this, each clue probably relates to something other than just geography, when we see how the “Architect” designed this drawing, we may nigh be onto the key, remember, it tolls for thee. Thank You, J.D. for your poetry.

    I think we have an Architectural Design and it resembles a Cathedral in the Mountains.



  30. I don’t know about anything particularly “spiritual” – yet we can’t ignore the possibility.

    One might consider direction and guidance given by parents (now gone) as a blaze (trail guide) of sorts. So did he tie a physical blaze mentioned in the SB (#223) to his parents to let us know what sort of blaze to be looking for?

    Or was he simply reminiscing on important and/or defining events in his life?
    I guess whether spiritual, physical or something tied to his parents – one must see how SB 223 fits their solve and not making the solve fit the SB… and if it fits well it may give clarity to other clues offered in the poem by using the same – or similar – connections. MOO

    • Clearly she didn’t do any research before writing that garbage!! Honestly, I have been a fan of Popular Mechanics for a long time and I’m surprised they would even publish the story.

      I wanted to respond to her but I don’t know that I would be able to convey my point without using choice words!!

    • Dal,
      You are right, this is a poorly ill-informed article written by a lazy reporter. Like many articles these days they are not really investigated, they just past along parts of a story and add their own spin on it. By the time it gets to the laziest of writers it is total garbage. It’s called “Fake News.” Well, I oughta……

      • TF-
        She actually writes that he is a peddler or seller twice…
        1. …named for art and forgery peddler Forrest Fenn…
        2. …lifelong seller of forgeries…

        • Hi, Dal,
          I have been so sorry .

          Someone likes ice cream and swimming,
          After so much eating ice cream, he enters a crazy river at noon.
          And he drown in the water.
          Who or what is responsible now?
          Ice cream?,
          These answers are the sympathetic in childhood.

          But if it is written in the local newspaper like that:

          “Ice cream drowned people in the days when Covid19 was panemic”

          just now, this news has become in itself the main subject which will be just subject of the real news.

          I can’t understand why a newspaper or journalist write the news without investigating possibilities and without knowing it and negatively.

          Oneday it may be also talked about the “right of the people to get impartial and definitive news”.

          My suggestion is to send the articles on the blog to the newspaper in bulk.

          So sad,
          And so disappointing for journalism.

          • I have reworked the message both in grammar and in content.
            Sorry for my hasty translation errors.

            Sending messages in bulk may not be easy and convenient.
            It also requires individual approval first.

            Sometimes it can work to show how society interacts with its internal dynamics.
            Still, the most important thing is individual choice and freedom of behavior.

            Sorry again.
            Ali Kemal

    • I’ve imagined so many times what it would be like to search for the Treasure and enjoying the splendor of the Rocky Mountain territory and afterwords returning home to my family and friends and sharing my wonderful story of adventure and doing so with thought and consideration to my safety first and foremost. And I would have done this safely because that is what I would have CHOSEN to do. We are all responsible for ourselves, we live by the CHOICES we make. When I do go forward to search for the Treasure I will CHOOSE to do so safely and I will CHOOSE to return home safely. Plain and Simple.

      As for the author, I am CHOOSING not to stoop to the level of the author by emailing them with some kind of story that explains why they felt the need to CHOOSE to write such a story blah blah blah.

      I made the CHOICE to write this comment.

      Pauley T

    • Poor Caroline must drive an urban car with tires made of cheese. Cause this nonsense smells like limburger to me.

    • To All,

      I would be interested to hear what FF would have to say about the article. I found it interesting that the poem and map page was used from TTOTC. I imagine some degree of permission had to be obtained in order to use that. And while the article is certainly critical of the Chase, I have to agree with tighterfocus2. FF was not called a forger but a peddler (or seller) of forgeries which FF himself would not claim as false. After all is that not how he got his start?

      I am in no way defending the article. It does not appear to be a historical account of the Chase, but rather a mere spotlight on a most unfortunate and tragic death. I admire the passion with which the Chase community has come to the defense of FF, but what does he have to say about it? Has he taken any offense? Does he feel the article inaccurately identifies a piece of the overall story? What ought the article to have looked like instead in covering this particular story?

      I am no journalist, nor am I FF. There is an old adage that goes something like “any publicity is good publicity.” While I am not convinced that adage is entirely true, and while the article does not shine the best light on the Chase, it does bring to the attention of the public 1) the Chase and 2) the dangers in not heeding calls for safety both by FF over the Chase and public officials over COVID-19.

      While I am not so critical of the article, it is now forever a part of the story of the Chase however it may be viewed. All IMO of course.


      • Hi Ann,

        I agree with you on that. He was not called a ‘forger’ but a forgery peddler, I think FF will not have an issue with that part of the story since other articles have said the same. If I’m not mistaken that was a known fact that he openly sold forgeries at his gallery. What the journalist got wrong was the timing of his illness, and she also injects some doubt into the treasure story which again some others have done as well.

        • But isn’t there a stark difference between forgery and a copy? Doesn’t forgery imply intent to decieve? Lastly what’s the difference, if it isn’t but in the eye of the purchaser and what their perception is?

          • Brian U,

            This may help:


            He did it openly and honestly. So it’s not like anyone can hold it against him.


            Well put. There are certainly errors regarding FFs cancer. Again, it is not a historical account of the Chase. As the title of the article suggests, it was an attempt to report on the recent death. albeit a poor attempt.

            The interjected skepticism is actually more reasonable than the factual errors. As with any unsolved mystery, there will be a degree of skepticism. Give the Chase enough time and it may just become legend and myth to people thousands of years from now! 🙂

            All IMO.


    • I suspect, having participated in the activity myself, that her piece is a product of the gig economy subsection called “article writing”. Somebody responsible for web content needs to constantly feed the beast, and an entire industry has sprung up to satisfy that need. There is a wide range of quality, but as you’ve probably noticed, the trend is downward.
      So don’t blame the writer too much–for all we know she churned out 12 similar pieces and put them up for auction, basically. The blame rests squarely on Popular Mechanics web edition for its acceptance of such tripe.
      In my opinion.

    • And better yet, why not contact Popular Mechanics directly and let the publication know what you think about this article?

      Just go to the “contact us” page and scroll down to “Letters” to submit a letter to the editor. If you do so, please keep it civil and simply appeal to the journalistic integrity of their publication by pointing out the many, many errors in this article that was submitted to them by this particular freelance author who very obviously conducted a minimal amount of information-gathering from sources that were very easy to find online even by a non-professional writer or non-journalist. What does that make you think about the publication as a whole if an article on a topic that you are very familiar with is so clearly nonfactual? Would you trust their expertise on topics that you are not as familiar with?

      And also, please don’t go into the mountains while the snows are still as deep as they are like this. It’s seriously dangerous and can cause death. Thank you.

    • Welcome to the wonderful world of Fake News, both partial and complete fantasies are for sale, this reads like a bad blog comment to TT, if Robert Redford wrote anything like this there would be a LYNCHIN…


    • This obviously is not a treasure hunter, this writer should get out to the mountains sometime, make read a dikshionary.

    • I have always found Popular Mechanics to be a total trash rag for engineer wannabes who couldn’t do well enough in school to get there.

      It’s really for kids and less educated folks who don’t have the ability or plain just don’t want to check the facts. The stories are written by English literature students as a temporary job before getting a real job with a reputable journal or magazine.

      I’m surprised in this digital age that Popular Mechanics still exists, but I suppose there will always be suckers willing to pay for misinformation and advertisers who don’t care who is endorsing their products.

  31. Talk about an uninformed “reporter”.

    Turned my stomach reading all the negativity about Forrest. Not one positive remark. Nothing about Forrest’s service to his country, his bravery, and HONOR! Nothing about Forrest’s environmental or humanitarian efforts. Not 1 good word.

    Granted, accidents happen, and it’s saddening. But when you go looking for trouble, it’s not an accident. At some point you honestly need to stop blaming others for your actions.

    And for what it’s worth, out of these 5 individuals, I’d be willing to wager that every one of them is sitting in Heaven with loved ones saying the same thing…”Please don’t blame Forrest”…I know I would.

    Thank you Mr. Fenn for everything you have done to make this world a better place. God Bless you all.


    • I agree, ByGeorge. Blame has become the crux of society which spirits the world into a disillusion of proper justice.

      Just because the moon is conquerable, can we blame it (the moon) for astronauts who’ve lost their lives trying to achieve it? Do we blame an airplane or its pilot because we’ve decided to step out, having our parachute fail? What about life itself, do we blame our mother for giving birth when misfortune exists upon us as the child?

      No one has forced us to proceed down a certain path, especially when we’ve been given life and a freedom of choice in doing so. Each step is our own and our responsibility, and it is by each that we choose our destiny. If not, we then live in a fairytale world where self-responsibility is never a concern and where blame can always be passed onto any one who happens to be be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

      It makes me wonder about the future of so-called “civilized” man.

      What ever happened to the phrase, “The Buck Stops Here”?

  32. Journalism Code of Ethics:

    Professional journalists share these basic principles
    public account ability

    She has proven to be a journalistic forger and a poor one at that.

      • 42,

        TRUE THAT!!!


        Other than that, I got nothin…


    • A very radical and colourful write up!

      ff is a “megastar” in my book, for many reasons! A man that has been married to the same woman all his life has qualities most of these none believers will ever posses. That is why they turn something positive into negativity. Its just their way of thinking. Well, things will reverse and they will look so silly when the day arrives and the TC is located and presented to the world.

      Someone will pull that rabbit out soon, I can feel it in my bones!

  33. How do you get stuck in snow in a snow machine? Clearly those folks didn’t do the proper planning and didn’t know what the heck they were doing.

  34. HA HA,
    Odds that writer has never strayed far
    from NYC..
    Checked my maps, sure didn’t know that
    WY & MT are considered now to be part of the S. W. U. S.
    Obviously never has visited HOD., otherwise she would have known
    tio CYA by inserting IMO

  35. PS,,
    Billings, MT. is about 45.7 deg N lat.
    NYC is about 40.7 deg N lat.
    Sooooo, by this, is NYC part of the
    S. E. U. S.???

    • Yep… the article would be an absolute joke – if it wasn’t for the fact it is a thoughtless, inaccurate and shameful swipe taken at Forrest’s character which make it truly reprehensible. Sadly – MOO – this is all too much the norm these days with many in the media.
      If there isn’t something legitimate to tear someone apart on, they ‘create’ the impression that there is, using outright lies and half truths.
      Making the tragedy of these individuals mistakes, her martyrs, for her own self aggrandizement at the expense of Forrest. Sad, sick world at times…

  36. The petulent child, not getting their desires met, will always claim someone or something else is the problem. Too many don’t out grow that thinking. You’re seeing it now with people not willing to wait in line. These are the ones that have no respect for others, and likely think charity is for suckers. This is the battle line for our souls. Always has been. May the force be with us.

  37. I really didn’t like that Popular Mechanics article that Dal had shared a little further up on this thread, and ended up writing a pretty long letter to the editor of Popular Mechanics this morning about that article. I emailed it to Dal this evening for grins, and he recommended that I share it in the comments here (in spite of its length). So if you feel like reading a big block of text this evening, here you go! 🙂

    To the Editor of Popular Mechanics Magazine and PopularMechanics.com,

    I wanted to write to your publication regarding the article titled “Fifth Person Dies Searching for Rumored Treasure in the Rocky Mountains” dated March 31, 2020 on by Caroline Dilbert. Although the article is brief at only around 2,500 words, I noticed so many factual errors within that short piece that I felt compelled to write to your publication and at least correct some of these mistakes, as well as share a differing opinion. As one who has enjoyed following this treasure hunt for the past several years, I have read many articles on this subject by many different news and media publications, and it is very evident to me that the author of this piece has not read most of them.

    Let me start by listing the straightforward, indisputable factual errors in the order that they are mentioned in the article:

    “Fenn’s treasure, named for art and forgery peddler Forrest Fenn, is supposed to be hidden in the mountains somewhere in the southwestern United States.”

    (and later on in the article)

    “What’s going on here? Five people have been killed searching for something that a lifelong seller of forgeries has only claimed exists?”

    In these sentences, the author calls Forrest Fenn a “forgery peddler” and “lifelong seller of forgeries”. Using the terms “peddler” implies criminal activity, and “lifelong” implies that Forrest Fenn made his entire fortune, or a majority of his fortune, on the selling of forgeries. Neither of these facts are true. Forrest Fenn did deal in forged works of art, however it was exclusively the work of a notorious forger named Elmyr de Hory, who duplicated some of the most famous works of art for years before he was finally caught. Forrest Fenn bought a large collection of Elmyr de Hory’s works and sold them at his gallery clearly advertised as forgeries. In addition, Fenn made purchasers sign an agreement upon purchase stating that they were fully aware that the piece they were purchasing was a forgery by Elmyr de Hory. The vast majority of work that Fenn sold were very authentic pieces by well-known artists around the world, as well as lesser-known artists local to the Santa Fe, NM area who Fenn himself helped to promote. The details of Forrest Fenn’s selling of de Hory’s works are duplicated in numerous publications across the internet that are easy to find, but perhaps the best version is the one that Fenn wrote in his own words on his (now no longer updated) blog site, which I will link below:

    “Michael Wayne Sexson, 58, died after he and a treasure-hunting companion took snowmobiles into the remote Rocky Mountains and got stuck in the snow there.”
    First, the age of the man was 53, not 58. The age 58 was given in early news articles when the deceased man had yet to be identified, but was revised to 53 once his identity was confirmed. Secondly, the deceased and his companion did not get “stuck in the snow” but rather abandoned their snowmobiles due to insufficient depth of the snow. I believe that the author mixed up an earlier event in February when the same two men did get their snowmobiles stuck in snow and had to be rescued. Below is a link to the Denver Post’s story which contains an accurate version of this story:

    “After doctor told him he’d likely die of cancer 10 years ago, the millionaire sold his art gallery and made preparations for both the treasure and the clues to find it. Fenn self-published The Thrill of the Chase in 2010,… ”

    (and later on in the article)

    “Fenn himself would have been nearly 80 and recovering from cancer treatment when he hid the treasure, which suggests he brought someone in to do it for him. ”

    Forrest Fenn’s bout with cancer occurred much earlier than 10 years ago; it was in 1988 when he was diagnosed with cancer and a poor prognosis. Before his unexpected recovery, he first came up with the idea of hiding a treasure chest in a location where he would commit suicide. Although it is true that he was selling his gallery at the time, this was not a result of his cancer diagnosis. The erroneous information about the timing of when Fenn had cancer is important, because it obviously devalues the inference that the author made in the latter part of the second sentence that Fenn must have have someone helping him.

    “Most of the information online about the treasure comes from this website, which prominently repeats instructions about how to treasure hunt “safely.”
    The website linked in this sentence is fennstreasure.com, which is not a popular website related to Fenn’s treasure and only includes a tiny portion of information borrowed from other websites. The fact that the author claims that “most of the information online about the treasure” comes from this website, is the clearest indication to me that a minimal amount of research went into the writing of this article [If I were to hazard a guess based on the information included in this article, the author went to the above-referenced website, the Wikipedia page about Forrest Fenn (even then, the information of which was erroneously regurgitated into this Popular Mechanics article), and the first news article that came up about Michael Wayne Sexson in a Google search].

    Contrary to the author’s statement, there are much more informative websites online where a wealth of accurate and detailed information can be found. To keep the amount of weblinks in this letter brief, I will simply mention the following website as one of the most popular, if not the most popular: https://dalneitzel.com/ My reason for recommending this website in particular is because its creator, Dal Neitzel includes links to pretty much every other website out there that contains information related to Forrest Fenn and his treasure. It is also one of the first websites that comes up in a basic Google Search on the topic, so I do not understand why the author claims that the fennstreasure.com site is where most of the information online about the subject comes from.

    The points that I have raised so far in this letter are what I believe to be clear factual errors that can be clearly demonstrated as such without argument. I have cited only a few exemplary sources above, however these are only a small amount of the information readily available online that is complimentary to the information contained in the sources that I have cited.

    I would now like to go back and further address the subjective content of the article, which I freely submit as merely an alternate perspective to the opinions presented by the author of your article.

    I want to start by listing the general points that I believe that the author is trying to make in this article:

    1. That the character of Forrest Fenn, and therefore his honesty, is questionable.
    2. That the hidden treasure chest is a hoax and may not exist.
    3. That Forrest Fenn is responsible for the deaths of those who have died while searching for the hidden treasure.
    4. That Forrest Fenn should call an end to the treasure hunt (or the “Chase”, as most enthusiasts call it).

    I will grant that the writer of this article may believe that they are not overtly making these points, but rather are simply putting forth these ideas as questions. Whether or not these ideas are being included in your article as questions, or hard opinions on the part of the author, I believe I can respond to them in a way that demonstrates that these questions are NOT “hard to answer” as the author wrote.

    Let’s start with that first idea questioning the honesty of the man who started the Chase, Forrest Fenn. I will admit that there is absolutely no way for one to definitively prove whether or not Forrest Fenn is lying or telling the truth about hiding his treasure chest without actually finding the treasure itself. The question of Forrest Fenn’s character then comes into some importance. As I have never met the man in person, I cannot speak to his character, however I have read many accounts of his close friends and other searchers who have met with the man. There are plenty of audio and video clips available online of the man talking both formally and casually about the Chase and his life in general. These accounts cause me to believe that the man seems to be at least honest about the treasure. One particular account I recall offhand was from the author Douglas Preston, a close friend of Fenn, who very clearly shared his opinion of Fenn’s honesty in an interview done for National Public Radio in 2016. I will include the excerpt and the link to the original story below:

    ‘Doug Preston is a best-selling author and a longtime friend of Fenn’s. He says he saw the chest in the walk-in vault in Fenn’s house before he hid it, and Preston can attest that it was filled with gold nuggets, gold coins, pre-Columbian gold figures, rubies, sapphires, emeralds and diamonds.”As far as proof goes [that he hid the treasure] there’s no proof,” Preston says. He also lives in Santa Fe. “It’s hard to prove a negative. The negative is that the chest is gone. It’s not in his house and it’s not in his vault. And also knowing Forrest for as long as I have, I can absolutely say with 100 percent confidence that he would never pull off a hoax. I’m absolutely sure that he hid that treasure chest.”

    Secondhand accounts of a person can only get one so far in judging their character. So I’d also like to bring up Forrest Fenn’s motivation. What would be the man’s motivation for hiding the treasure chest, and for lying about hiding a treasure chest?

    Let’s start with the motivation for lying about hiding the treasure chest, because I believe that is the position that the author of your article wishes to take. If Forrest Fenn is lying about the treasure chest, then he is a person who experiences pleasure at deceiving others. He is a puppet-master who enjoys seeing people run around looking for something that isn’t there. He is a trickster or the equivalent of a modern-day internet-troll to the highest degree. He cares nothing for others and enjoys “seeing the world burn” in a sense to perhaps feed his own ego and thus set himself above others. He’s an old man who doesn’t have many years left in his life, so why not play one last practical joke before he passes on; the greatest practical joke ever created!

    The author uses the intentionally misleading text of calling him a peddler of forgeries in an effort to paint the picture of a dishonest man that I have described above, which I have already written about as being factually untrue. What other points does the author make to discredit the man’s character? Beyond this, the author cites a frivolous lawsuit that a delusional searcher (“someone”) made with no chance of winning (one of many actually), and the fact that “Dumping some kinds of things is all the way illegal” in National Parks, a convenient link to the National Park Service’s website (a National Park may or may not be the location of the treasure’s hiding place. These other points are tenuous at best in defining Forrest Fenn as a liar and a cheat. A frivolous lawsuit and a minor crime against illegal dumping (which generally is against invasive organic waste and not small metal treasure chests, per the NPS link) do not convince me much in regards to the author’s argument.

    So could Forrest Fenn be a lying trickster? The possibility exists, however I do not believe that there is strong evidence supporting this.

    Let me go over to the other side of this question: If Forrest Fenn was not lying, then what would be his motivation for creating this treasure hunt? Some have opined that his motivation comes from a desire for fame or renown, whether it be establishing a place for himself in the history books to create some sense of earthly permanence, or to simply satisfy himself that he made his mark on this world. This could be true, however the man had achieved a certain degree of fame (especially in the art world) before he ever started the Chase. He rubbed elbows with the rich and famous and, in my opinion, had more incredible life experiences than anyone could hope for. When I first became interested in the Chase, I believed that fame must have been Forrest’s motivation for hiding his treasure chest, but my opinion has changed on this over time and I will try to explain my present belief here.

    I saw a good quote posted on social media recently by the author Alex Haley: “Every time an old person dies, it’s like a library burning down.” I believe that this may be at the heart of Forrest Fenn’s motivation for hiding the treasure chest. The more one reads Forrest’s books and blog posts, I believe the more one can understand the spirit of the Chase. Forrest’s life is a pretty incredible story in which many important life lessons were learned by him, which he shares eloquently in his writings. I think that he understands towards the end of his life how much of a shame it is to have all of those life lessons be lost forever upon his death. He speaks frequently of the sense of wonder that he has in archaeological finds: an arrowhead from an ancient hunter, a threshold stone of a house worn by human feet, a discarded button from a soldier’s uniform found in a field, etc. I think that Forrest Fenn very clearly experiences a sense of the profound when he comes into contact and can touch ancient artifacts like these. I think that while he wonders about the original owners of these items and what their thoughts may have been during their life, at the same time he laments the fact that whatever these thoughts were, that they are now lost to the ages and only these relics remain. I believe that he sees himself reflected in these items and by creating the Chase, he can perhaps call attention to the valuable life lessons that he has learned and hopefully preserve at least a small portion of them for future ages. This is all just my opinion as it has evolved over the years, but I do feel is a recurring theme in many of his own writings.

    So anyway, Forrest Fenn has said that he came up with the idea for the Chase when he first got cancer and thought he was going to die. His original plan was to head into the Rocky Mountains and commit suicide, but first to leave a poem behind that would lead a lucky searcher to his final resting site and the treasure chest that he took with him. In short, the Chase was created as a dying man’s legacy; a final hurrah to help him go out with a bang and pass on into legend. The treasure is the cost of having the general public care about the dying man and what he had to say in his final hours. More people do wander off into the wilderness to commit suicide than I would care to know the exact numbers on, but if one of those people happened to have a valuable treasure with him? Many would pay special attention to that particular dying person and what they have to say, if nothing else then for a clue as to where the treasure may be hidden. The Chase seems to me to be, above all other things, the legacy of Forest Fenn.
    So why would a person sabotage their life’s legacy on creating a joke, a hoax, a lie? Even for the biggest sociopath in the world, it still seems like a hard thing to believe. Yes, the possibility of this still remains, but speaking from personal experience, the more one reads of what the man has written, the more easily one can dismiss the idea that the entire Chase is a trick. If it is a trick, Fenn has spent a titantic amount of effort to create so much misleading evidence. I believe the man to generally be good and of honest character, and firmly do not believe the treasure to be a hoax.

    Now let’s move on to the topic of the five searchers who have died in the search of the Chase, and the question of whether Forrest Fenn should call an end to the Chase. Forrest has responded numerous times related to these topics and are easy to find online with a quick internet search, and I would prefer that the author reads/views these firsthand.

    The author of this article is expressing outrage (or the desire to stir up the outrage of readers) over the notion that people have died in the wilderness looking for treasure in the following lines:

    “What’s going on here? Five people have been killed searching for something that a lifelong seller of forgeries has only claimed exists? And because of where these people choose to search, they’re in pretty dangerous places with little access to good emergency resources—let alone when the country is in public health lockdown.”

    “Most of the information online about the treasure comes from this website, which prominently repeats instructions about how to treasure hunt “safely.” (That seems like an understatement after five people have died.)”

    As I have already pointed out earlier, both of these passages contain factually-wrong information, but when seen how this wrong information is used in the context of the full sentences to propel the writer into a state of outrage and drive their point home, the effect seems to be doubly egregious.

    I feel that the outrage on the author’s part is coming from the position of one who has not only rarely experienced going into wilderness areas on their own, but has not been made aware of the thousands of other people who do, and the very real dangers inherent with visiting wilderness areas for any purpose, treasure-hunting or otherwise. The excerpts above written by the author seem to be making an argument against anyone going out into wilderness areas. Wilderness areas are inherently by their nature dangerous by being isolated from “good emergency resources”. This is why most people who go into the wilderness bring safety gear with them. To me, this seems obvious on the most basic levels of outdoor recreation, and I am doubly confused why I am reading an article with such an apparent ignorance of this in “Popular Mechanics” of all publications?

    To set the record straight, Forrest Fenn had been proactive in giving very important and accurate safety information before any Chase-related deaths occurred. And it was not any new information; it is the same information posted at every wilderness area be it National Park, State Park, National Forest, Wilderness Area, etc. The people who have died ignored this information, just as people who die simply while hiking ignore important information. To say that Forrest Fenn is responsible for the deaths of these people is similar to saying that the National Park System is responsible for allowing people within their boundaries. It is a ridiculous argument.

    Furthermore, Forrest Fenn has provided even more information specific to the Chase on top of the typical common safety information for wilderness travel. He has said that the treasure is hidden in a safe spot that he would be comfortable bringing small children to. He has reminded people that he was 80 years old when he hid the treasure and to not travel where an 80-year-old man could not go. He has given a ton of additional specific information clearly intended to keep people away from dangerous areas and the people who have died have blatantly ignored that information. These people did not listen to Forrest Fenn’s stressed advice, did not act safely, made poor decisions, and caused their own deaths.

    The most recent person who died highlighted in this article was just rescued in February of this year, and almost immediately afterwards went right back out into the snowy, unforgiving mountains having learned from his previous experience, and died. If this man cannot be held responsible for his own death due to unbelievably poor decision-making, then I do not know who can. Certainly not Forrest Fenn.

    I want to close this letter by mentioning something important that was omitted in this article, and I can only guess completely escaped the notice of the article’s author during their very brief period of research. This Chase that Forrest Fenn has created has had an overwhelmingly positive effect on the lives of so many people who have been captured by the imagination of going on a treasure hunt. There are countless stories of families who have bonded over the Thrill of the Chase, in puzzling over maps and the Poem at home, and then heading out to the Rocky Mountains to test their theories and end up enjoying the trip just for its own sake. I know that earlier I had mentioned my opinion that the Chase was a personal legacy of Forrest Fenn, however another one of Forrest’s goals of the Chase was to inspire people to get out of their homes and away from their computers to enjoy fresh air and the splendor of the Rocky Mountains. He has accomplished this goal many thousands of times over with people who are grateful for him having done it and enriching their lives. Modern-day adventures like this are such a rare inspirational thing that should be recognized and appreciated, and I am so glad that this one exists to capture my imagination. All of this was completely missed by the author, and I am sorry for that.

    I wish to submit this letter anonymously, and I realize that I ended up writing a much longer letter than I originally sat down to write. If you wish to publish or post this in whole or in part, please do, with the exception of including my email address. I have read many poorly written articles about the Chase online and in publications, however this article ranks dead last as the worst one I’ve ever read. This article seems to be written in the format of an angry, ignorant Facebook post rather than a news article. This is a professional contributor to your publication?

    I hope that this letter at least provides a counterpoint for consideration, and helps to balance out what I feel to be an extremely ignorant and negative piece of writing.

    Thank you for your consideration,
    A grateful Chaser

    • Blex;

      What a beautifully crafted response to a poorly crafted article that should have never been published – Thanks for sending it to the magazine (I won’t even mention their name) and thanks for posting it here – JDA

    • Blex.
      A very noble and thoughtful attempted to clear up the misinformed, for there are many I’m sure.
      It is sad that there are those in life that cannot except the success and achievements of others. They will rarely be able to go beyond those shallow thoughts for they have already decided how far they will climb.
      They will continue running down those in the attempt to feel better about who they are.
      Just my opinion that this could be the case.
      Or a disgruntled searcher. No matter, if there’s a mansion built there’s always one to tear it down.
      I hope you made a difference,

    • Hi Blex: I applaud your efforts, though I fear they will fall on deaf ears at the magazine. I have not read the article, and upon reading your response to it I have no great desire to do so. Even so, it would not surprise me if Forrest isn’t a little amused by the (shall we say) weakly-researched article. (“Hit piece” sounds overly harsh.) After all, sometimes there is no such thing as bad publicity.

      A final correction at the risk of repetition: 6 souls, not 5, have unfortunately and unnecessarily perished in pursuit of the treasure (that we know about). With so many people searching for so many years, some accidents (even automobile accidents) are unfortunately inevitable. But there is also no way to know how many lives have been saved or extended thanks to Forrest’s challenge, nor a count of the relationships made or mended.

      • Zaphod – Thank you, and I won’t be surprised at all if it falls on deaf ears at the magazine. I looked into the author’s stable of contributions, and I believe that she has built a career out of writing click-bait style articles that include keywords intentionally-selected to show up high on search engine results. The content of the articles themselves are almost an afterthought.

        On the one hand, I’d encourage you to read the original article itself to experience this low point of journalism firsthand (it only takes about 30 seconds to read), but on the other it would give an extra “click” to the website. I’m fine with either. The excerpts I included in my letter comprise about half of the article’s content already.

    • Blex,

      I just wrote cdelbert. I copied/pasted my post from above and went bit further, politely explaining.

      I invited her(?) to stop into this blog dalneitzel.com to view the discussion/comments as well leaving a reply/comment for us all.

      Just a simple explanation of her thought process would be nice to know, WHAT WERE YOU THINKING???

      Hopefully we will see an explanation on this.
      Stay safe y’all and good luck!


      • Thanks, ByGeorge. At best, I am willing to believe that the author wrote the article with the motivation to get a story written quickly to meet a deadline, so if she is open-minded and willing to learn more about what the Chase is all about, then that would be good on her.

    • A guy throws a suitcase into a water inlet infested with salt water crocodiles and it sinks. He tells a group of onlookers there is £1m of cash in there, but not to go looking until the tide goes out. Angry snappers are circling for all to see. 2 of the group decide to jump in immediately, knowing they might be eaten alive and yes, they meet their fate. The rest decide to wait for the tide to recede.

      Who is to blame for the loss of life? The thrower or the jumpers?

      The fact the rest waited for the tide to recede tells us it is not the throwers fault.

      • BigOnus,

        Reminds me of a joke…

        A billionaire throws a party. In order to keep his guests from jumping in the pool, he has hungry Gaters dropped into the pool.
        During the party the host stands up and announces to his guests that he will give anyone whatever they want if they can swim the length of the pool
        Out of nowhere there’s a SPLASH! Everyone watches in horror as the man frantically swims the distance and springs to safety!
        The host rushes to his side and exclaims “YOU ARE THE BRAVEST MAN I HAVE EVER SEEN! What you want? A million dollars? An island? Just name it and it’s YOURS!!
        The man looks at the billionaire and says “I WANT THAT SON-OF-A-BLEEP THAT PUSHED ME IN!!!”

        I got nothin…


      • I don’t think you can penetrate a too-thick skull (and that’s the polite way of describing someone) with logical reason.

        Since you asked, (and just to “play devil’s advocate”) I could claim that the rest waited because they didn’t seriously want to be victorious. No risk, no reward, don’tcha know. And using this same approach, I could
        state the following fact, while inviting anyone to dispute it: If the automobile had never been invented, there wouldn’t annually be tens of thousands of lives ended early — as a result of injuries sustained in
        automobile crashes.

        Seriously, I don’t hold Fenn responsible to any degree for any deaths of searchers for his treasure. ‘Nuff said for now.

        • Risk/reward might not be right here. Had they waited for the tide to withdraw they might also have also seen they were swimming in the wrong place, so all the risk in the world might never bring reward. In my mind I see greed and stupidity.

        • BigOnus n TF2,

          Might I ad this…
          Who would believe the guy in the first place?
          Who throws cash into water? Nobody sensible.
          Greed makes ya jump in. Heck, stupid is a relative term so that’s a possibility as well.

          Now here’s the way I see it…if the suitcase had indulgence secreted inside it then it wouldn’t have sank!
          Because HOPE FLOATS!! 🙂


      • BigOnus – I agree, but I don’t think that your analogy about throwing the suitcase into an area filled with crocodiles even compares to Forrest’s Chase. The guy in your story has knowingly thrown the suitcase of money into an obviously dangerous location and Forrest has said time and again that he has not done anything of sort and that the location is in a place where one does not need to put themselves in danger. But I totally get the point that you were making.

    • Very nicely written, Blex. That was a LOT of work on your part. And I hope Forrest reads your letter.

      The dubious article speaks volumes about “Popular Mechanics” as a publication. They’re either desperate for articles, or their management staff is incompetent, or both.


      Ken (in Texas) 🙂

      • It used to be a pretty good mag, decades ago. But they seem to have
        gotten into subjects that hardly relate to mechanics at all. It wouldn’t
        surprise me if they publish articles these days about “confused individuals”.

      • Thanks, Ken. If Forrest does read that article, then I do hope he reads my letter as well. I’d prefer he doesn’t read either though, and just keeps doing what he’s doing.

    • Blex – WOW! I think we need to title this “My War for Fenn.” LOL! Nicely done! I wrote a letter to the editor as well, only shorter….OK, much shorter 😉 and not nearly as well as you! Kudos for caring enough to take the time to do that. If the editor of Popular Mechanics has any ethics and decency, he will respond in one fashion or another. Let’s hope he at least considers correcting the misinformation about Mr. Fenn.

    • Hi, Blex,

      It was impossible not to rebel against this irrational article, underestimating the whole family of chase and the university living in it.

      Your article has been a detailed and beautiful .

      At the end of the post, I perceived “a grateful chaser” as “tens of thousands of grateful chasers “.

      Health to your hand and mind.
      Ali Kemal

    • Blex… What a wonderful letter. How do you write so articulately and cool with steam coming out of your ears? Thank you for righting a wrong, and for a lesson in writing.

      • Thank you, OS2. I will admit that I needed to delete a few sentences that I had written along the way to keep it civil! 😉

  38. Blex,

    From start to finish, well done. It looks longer on my phone but it wasn’t. I could have read more from you.

    Nice approach. Your pro’s and con’s were politely expressed and well covered with links and facts. I did not know there was February incident as well.

    Very unfortunate and preventable to say the least.


    • ByGeorge – Thanks, I agree. This recent death was unfortunate, but incredibly foolhardy. Even thought the dangers of deadly Winter exposure are obvious, Forrest has also stressed time and time again not to go into the mountains until well after the snows melt. If anything, I hope this serves as a wake-up call to any others who may have still been considering an off-season search.

  39. Good Job Blex! I almost feel sorry for the author, maybe she’s a newbie and this was her first gig, working from home trying to make ends meet. Who knows, hope she doesn’t get fired and decides to join some searchers and write a good article about the Thrill.

    • Cholly – Thank you, and I respect your desire to empathize with the author. I believe that the author is a freelancer who writes for many different publications/websites. If she does decide to acknowledge her mistake and learn more about the subject herself, that would be great!

    • Cholly – You make a good point. I don’t think anyone wants to see the author fired, just made aware of the fact that she has made some incorrect statements and that hopefully they will be corrected. Everyone makes mistakes, but IMO, if you want to be considered as a professional journalist, I think it’s pretty important to get facts right.

      • Someone once said that the ultimate misery of a dishonest person isn’t that they would be found out, it is a life spent deciding everyone they meet (or write about) must be dishonest.

        well if someone didn’t say it, I just did.

  40. Every day in my email in box I get a free Word of the day sent to me, for personal edification from Merriam Webster,

    Today that word was “maverick” it seems odd to me that the last sentence said this: “Maverick eventually recognized the folly of the situation and sold what was left of his depleted herd, but not before his name became synonymous with such unbranded livestock. By the end of the 19th century, the term maverick was being used to refer to individuals who prefer to blaze their own trails.” Does anybody remember the way ff describes the “lead dog” scenario. Do you think he reads stories, especially about Western Themes?

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/word-of-the-day … sign up and see if we are gettin’ smarter all the time. But keep in mind the competition, the command of vocabulary terms reminds TT of Golf, at 73 I can still compete and often beat the 20 year olds, why? I could never compete with the youngers in Football, Baseball, or Basketball but Billards, I am a whiz, golf better than average, so why is it that an 80 year old is runnin circles around us?

    Are kids today smarter? Well this statistic surprised me, but probably not Forrest…The average adult knows 20,000 to 35,000 words. The average 20 year old knows 42,000 words and phrases (known as lemmas— including idioms).

    How many words are in the average American’s vocabulary? – Quorawww.quora.com

    I think a 20 year old today is smarter all the time, but do they have this very important quality
    called self-discipline? Now there is the rub.

    I rest my case for competing with a Maverick who is still a kid at heart, but soon I will again test the Waters, where he describes like an architectural design in the poem. IMO the first stanza has been deciphered, analyzed and well…beat to death, it hints and frames our picture of the design. PERIOD, and it contains a pledge…to keep his secrets where, as he has gone alone in there.


  41. To All,

    For an article many here care nothing for, it sure has gotten a lot of attention. Interesting…..
    I wonder who else may be giving the article this much attention….
    Makes you wonder who the intended audience was…..
    If, at the end of the day, it merely brings newcomers to the Chase while those who are already at it know a bit more about the Chase than the author of the article, why sweat it out?
    Right or wrong, too much credit and attention is being given to this article and any significance, or lack thereof, it may have in the Chase. Let’s not let shiny objects such as this, for whatever reason they may stand out, distract us from the task at hand. I am not trying to dismiss the matter, but I imagine time and effort could better be placed elsewhere for those concerned. It would be nice to see a greater level of scrutiny and analysis applied to the poem as has been done to this article. Perhaps maybe then a correct solve would be achieved. All IMO.


    • Ann-
      It is not about the article. It is about the character assassination of the man and his values. Those things are always worth standing up for, in my opinion.
      You don’t seem to grasp the value that many searchers place on the person who’s treasure they seek. Nor do you seem to grasp the respect many of us feel he is due for the life he has lived well. Friends always support their friends in whatever way they can…don’t they?

      • Good response to Ann, Dal. Ann, the article made my blood boil with anger. Is shiny object the phrase you meant to say? It seems misplaced. Your writings are all very clipped and dry and sterile. The reactions you’re comparing to a baby’s attraction to a squeezy toy, are human emotions brought on by an unresearched cut and paste slanderous attack on a man many of us have come to love and admire. If a writer like this Popular Mechanics hack, attacked my wife or someone close to me in an article like that, the only shiny objects would the ones under both of their eyes.

      • dal,

        Absolutely. I am not taking away from any defenses made. Just noting that the article was obviously not intended for the loyal search community and I don’t feel it is worth the valuable time and effort of the loyal search community to give such a disagreeable article so much time and attention.

        As is often the case here where opinions may differ, we should not exhaust our energies on attempting to sway the opinions of those with whom we disagree. Personally, I’d rather focus on something more positive, especially during these already chaotic times.

        Will there be critics of FF and the Chase? Sure. Do you think FF is sweating the criticism, whether the criticism is right or wrong? I think he has more important things to worry about. FF is no push over and he’s had to face critics before, such as those in the art dealing industry over his methods.

        We ought not to take to heart the words of those who know so little of us. Doing so only empowers them. And ought we not to be so quick to judge lest we be judged ourselves? All I’m saying is why give breath and time to something so clearly not worth giving breath and time to?

        Want to support FF? Then don’t pay undue attention to the naysayers and give them fuel to fan the flames that may rub you the wrong way because of your personal beliefs and feelings on the matter. (And by the terms “you” and “your” I am referring here to the general “you” not necessarily you specifically dal.)

        Instead, rise above the temporary noise and honor the man with more worthy efforts than paying undue attention to those with whom we disagree. Feeding into the injury only perpetuates it, like picking at a scab. Do not let the sore fester. Do not scratch at the itch. Treat it accordingly and move on.

        All is IMO of course and no harm or disrespect intended or meant. Please don’t take my words to heart for sure! 🙂


        • Ann. In your defense towards the folks here you are repeating and doing exactly what they are towards there opinion of what the writer has done in his article. So how can you say what your saying to the folks here when you are telling them to dismiss what you are continuing to do. You are in the circle using the circle to diminish it.
          Some might call that hypocritical.
          Don’t condem a process that you are using yourself.
          This is not sent with any disrespect or hard feeling. It’s just something worth considering.

          • Grasshopper,

            To each their own. I was simply trying to move on from the unrest the article has stirred. It has grown into something it never was and now we find ourselves chitchatting about that. Such is precisely what I was trying to deter. Sorry you feel it is hypocritical. No condemnations from me. Change comes from within. Consider it considered. All IMO.


    • “Let’s not let shiny objects such as this, for whatever reason they may stand out, distract us from the task at hand.”

      LOL!! So Annie, you assume that searchers are not capable of chewing gum and walking in a straight line at the same time???

      (couldn’t resist 🙂 )

      Good Luck to Ya, Ann Of the Nymous

      • loco,

        I think I was going more for being lured in and getting hooked by something that is neither food for the Chase, nor healthy to digest. Thanks for not resisting. 🙂 All IMO.


    • I’ve abstained from commenting on the above so-called article… not because I don’t care… but sometimes it is best for me to keep my trap closed when reading articles such as that, and other ridiculous drivel. My sentiments in regards to the words written cause me to pause and wonder…. Who the hell is this person, and why does this person form such opinions about another without regard to the facts/truth. There are many bottom feeders out there… too many for my liking. It makes me think about donning my trusty ol’ cape and newly acquired face garments… aww never mind…. but Karma is a b***h for sure.

  42. Tried to read the Popular article but it seems the site she doesn’t work.
    Now, none of you would have anything to do with that, would you?!
    Pretty sure Mr. Fenn knows about sticks and stones, bones and names not hurting.
    The pen may be mighty but there was this boogey man in a bar, a pencil and three guys….who does that?

    • ChickenOne,

      Why would the only option be because of a possibly nasty email? Hopefully nobody was rude.

      But maybe they received tons of emails and got tired of reading them? Wouldn’t that be a logical approach as well?

      Maybe they can better answer your concern? If ya want to read mine, I can post it. Nothing nasty. Just as I posted here but I added some hope that she visit HOD and go from there.

      I even mentioned that once indulgence is found that she write another article. Who knows, it could be magical?


    • The site works. I was just there. Read the article. Send an email response discussing the author’s journalistic practices (or rather, lack thereof) and writing ability. Stunned that some editor allowed this to be published.

  43. Congratulations to the contest winners!!!!!

    As I was looking over all the entries and reading the notes attached thereto, I had a difficult time deciding which “thing” to submit for my own entry. Ultimately I was unable to produce a picture of my favorite thing. Every time I thought of one abject it was immediately followed by another. Each one having some special meaning for me. But it was the reason each object held such special meaning that I wanted to share with all of you. And that reason, that meaning, is what I could not capture with a photograph.

    It’s the fond memories. Those are the most important thing to me. They capture all the important parts of life and I can carry them with me always. Nothing is more near and dear to me except perhaps the original moments themselves. Hope everyone is creating new fond memories during these new and challenging times, and cherishing the moments creating them. All IMO.


      • I concur, Geysergirl. Ann’s thoughts rang true to me, too. I had a hard time trying to choose just one, mostly because of the memories each held. A hand-carved horse-drawn sleigh with a couple sitting in the sleigh my grandfather made and had given to me when I was around twelve years old. All of the homemade treasures my children made while in school, which I proudly display in my china cabinet rather than my china. My Canon camera which captures my memories from A-Z. The shelves of photos and albums of such memories held in still motion to help me remember those precious times. My wedding gown and silk bouquet. Yes, so many things, and all related to our precious memories and how they touched our hearts.

  44. “What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve”

    forever for forthwith far-reaching

    • That’s so funny! I love how Tim says hashtag John Wayne instead of #JohnWayne. It’s always good to try on a new hat to see if it fits. Way to go Tim!

  45. This is not Cowboy Logic Frensy and Writis, but it makes pretty good sense to TT:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foU1qgOdtwg … listen at 8 min thru 16, iMO the difference in the message of the poem and our perceptions of the riddle, unless we are present in the place where or imagination feels comfortable, we cannot understand Warm, or Waters unless we “Halt” and observe the condition of our spirit, that is why Scrapbook 241, “Olden Wood” is worth a revealing look inside, first, the chest is closed, like our preoccupied mind with a jumble of thoughts, then it is opened to reveal a treasure, what is WWWH and what has it got to do with the 3 Spanish Crosses and that Bulto? Awareness is not just a thought, it is a message to see things with your BEING in the Now, so why do these words WWWH present such an obstical? What ff say is Important to express has been seen here and is the opinions of some that hot water coming from mother earth is where we begin, yet it could not the real metaphor that Forrest illustrates in this poem, yes is it a geographical place, most assuredly but IMHO it cannot be found without your spirit being present and putting attention to Important Literature, I think, but more importatly I am aware, and in the now.


    • Imo a treasure hunter needs to go beyond relentless. Is that Faith driven by hope in the pursuit of perfection through verification. If so where is the evidence? Is it revealed in the determining factors of verification? Are the factors quantified by magnitude and volume? How massive does a clue need to be? How many hints are there to a clue? How many hints in a book? How many licks does it take to get my tootsie to the center of this pop.

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