APRIL 2020
by JDiggins

HE FELT LIKE AN ARCHITECT BUILDING THAT POEM
So let’s build a material list:
4 Corner stones are A E I D (AIDE, IDEA)

ALL LETTERS PRESENT BUT X

Making x from corner letter to corner letter lands on “a” in line 13 word “and”

Wise is the middle word at 83

24 lines, 6 stanzas Not adding in space between stanzas

With 10 blank lines/returns between stanzas 34 lines

166 WORDS

602 letters

29 capital letters :
A-5, I-9, B-3, N-1, P-1, F-1, T-3, J-2, L-1, S-2, Y-1
AAAAAIIIIIIIIIBBBNPFTTTJJLSSY

20 Sets of double letters:
E, N, T, O, E, L, D, E, E, O, T, T, R, T, E, L, O, F, L, O
E-5, N-1, T-4, O-4, L-3, D-1, R-1, F-1

28 PUNCTUATIONS
5-apostrophe ‘’’’’, 13-comma ,,,,,,,,,,,,,
1-question mark? 1-semi colon ; 8-periods……..

5 contractions:
it’s, there’ll, you’ve, I’ve, I’m
It is, there will, you have, I have, I am
Missing letters: IWIHAHAA
Missing words: is will have have am

659 text characters
142 spaces
Characters + spaces = 801

801 divided by 34 lines = average 23.5588 letters for each blank line thus 23.5588×10=235.588 missing characters, lines and spaces

Add missing to whole is 801 + 235.588 =1036.588 total text space from A to d.
If you divide that into 4 it is 259.1470 per .25 of poem

188 syllables

21 lines have 8 syllables each, line 2 has 6, line 3 has 7, line t has 7

39 nouns

NINE CAPITAL I’s

1st and 3rd line end (t)here (w)here,

and 2nd and 4th lines end with (b)old, old,

LAST STANZA ENDS:
4-D’S, 4-O’S, 4-T’S

4 lines end with no punctuation, words are:
THERE HALT GO WOOD,

Lines are:

As I have gone alone in there
(And with my treasures bold,)

Begin it where warm waters halt
(And take it in the canyon down,)

So why is it that I must go
(And leave my trove for all to seek?)

If you are brave and in the wood
(I give you title to the gold.)

## 265 thoughts on “Facts About the Poem…”

1. What do you make of all that?
Does it tell you where warm waters halt?

2. I have no idea how u did that. Ha ha
I will stick with how the poem is written out.

3. That’s a whole lotta math and English you got there.
And facts galore, I might add(or subtract). I found a smiley face in the poem if you turn it sideways. But otherwise this is more technical than a high powered rocket and I’m actually taken back. I have heard of this thing being architecture, but not thought about the possibility of dismantle it. Well done.

4. Maybe we all have a little too much time on our hands. This thing is so overcooked it’s beginning to take the shape of the new “home of Brown”.

5. Now this is a lady who has put in as much time trying to unlock this poem every possible way as I have. Much respect!, JDiggins.

One of these days all these different types of thinking we are attempting is going to crack it!!!

6. Presto! Spaghetti !!

7. KUDOS JDiggins!

I love facts…
I have no idea if any of this will help solve the puzzle of the poem…but you never know what might click in someone else’s mind as they look at your building blocks.
Even if it does not lead to a solution it is fun to see the facts, so thanks for sharing…

• I agree Dal. I’ve known Jamie and Richard….errr… I mean Bill (inside joke) for a while, and I love how attentive Jamie is to details. This is one of those attentions. I don’t know if it pans out, but it’s like putting a microscope on metadata. Always interesting to see.

• Great work indeed. Brute force attacks always yields interesting data.

I’d love to see the results from rather than an X, but a fibonacci or golden ratio sequence.

• Dal, thank you for sharing!
Dal, I enjoy your website. I’m impressed by your dedication and subject matter. Dal, you make it interesting and exciting hunting down Mr. Fenn’s special spot.
I love TTOTC

8. They may be facts but does not mean they are relevant in solving the poem and finding the treasure.
I’ll bet most of what you have offered here is not known by Fenn.

• @jake, this is more likely an example of things unknown or not likely to solve to the chest of gold, but perhaps rewarding in other ways.

The hieroglyphics or art of the poem. FF did speak about the Rosetta Stone in his memoir TTOTC. For me that was the first hint at converting everything to all CAPS to look for the word pictures. He wears Hats or CAPS in most of the photos to draw attention to CAPS
[ALL My Opinions].

Easter Example:
In honor of The Savior and His sacrifice, I recently watched “The Passion.”
The word PASSION is linear in the poem beginning with PA of paddle in line 11 across:
…..PA
……..S
……..S
……I.O
…….N

C
R
O
P LACES (line 9 across)
Line 10 “severed raw”

Looking for entertaining picture meanings in the poem related to the Passion:

A = Lance point
D-D or B = leg irons
=E whip/crop LACES
T-T-T nails, stakes
HALT at T = cross of Christ

Hey, I just identified the ADE

• That’s a bet I would take any day.
LOL. That’s the best statement I have here’d in quite some time.
Thanks. GH

• Either way Jake, it might be wise to work through jdiggins hard work, processing and eliminating.

Unless you have somewhere else to be right now (-;

• I’m still working a 40+ hr wk paying job.
Maybe you should practice what you preach and let us know what you find.
😉

• Hi Jake! I appreciate your input! I’ve been “watching ” you for years! Stay safe as you work!

• I consider a 40 hour working week a good start my friend 🙂

If I do and find nothing, I will have achieved something! But I do believe there are hidden gems withing the walls of that poem!

9. “Building blocks” rings a bell for me –
A – B – C Easy as 1 – 2 – 3………

10. Dal,

Interesting thread! I like the breakdown you have provided. I take issue with one though. 39 nouns. I’d like to see what you are identifying as the 39 nouns. Other than this tidbit, I imagine you have thoroughly presented the rest correctly. Thank you for compiling such efforts!

Btw, I ask about the nouns for some obvious reasons. FF mentioning their importance and looking up words and such. Thanks in advance for clarifying!

All IMO.

-Ann

• Apologies.

I did not catch the author of the above before posting my initial comments. Thanks JDiggins! I pass my above question on to you. All IMO.

-Ann

• jdiggins,

Way to evade! 🙂 I know, it’s a complex question. The obvious wonder about the nouns is certainly obvious. We are looking for places, or a specific place in the Chase, namely the location of the chest. Knowing which words are nouns may help identify which words identify the place and which words merely describe how to get there. So the question remains (and I don’t mean the one I asked you that you answered below….sort of). All IMO.

-Ann

• Hi Ann, you can be certain that I counted each person, place or thing in the poem, starting with line 1. the nouns are I and there.
I just didnt want to add the element of opinion in the FACTS of the poem. Nouns are always negotiable…lol

• Jdiggins,

Completely understand! I’m not one much for negotiating unless it’s to get some answers out of FF! He certainly has some splainin’ to do! 🙂

-Ann

11. Without a doubt some of what you’re illustrating here have a purpose, I do not think ALL of this is or has a useful purpose, but not to envision or focus on the possibility that the selection of 166 words could be the number of steps from the Blaze, quickly down toward the TC, or the 602 words might be the distance in feet or yards between a certain clue and the last clue?

No matter whether we will know this once we are stumped and the final count is needed it is still going to be a riddle that solves the locations through an imagined metaphorical which in turn is a geographic place. It may very well be a coordinate of Latitude and Longitude, one hint might be logical, the boundaries and borders could be an absolute exact location, that is the missing X in the poem IMO.

The Easternmost longitude on I 25 is at or near Raton NM, that is a known fact, the Western border of Montana is also a known marker, I will not bore you with Navigation talk, but what is a BORDER you ask? It is a know position and you can calculate it with Google Earth anywhere. What are the metaphorical border references in our search you ask? THAT is the riddle’s answer?

TG

12. Another oddity in the poem is the seventh line. It has a period at the end, whereas I would think it should be a comma. Sure reads like that line is connected to the eighth line.

NBD

• NBD,

That’s the beauty of line 8. It’s a stand alone sentence! That would seem suggestive of it’s meaning as well. It would mean something very different if it were a clause to the previous line, via the use of a comma. Interesting you think line 7 is the odd one there. All IMO.

-Ann

13. Hello all, and thank you Dal!
I sent this to Dal because I have been diving back into the beginning of my search,, over 6 years ago. When I started, I thoroughly analyzed the poem. The above is just SOME of it, I thought it might help click someone’s switch on.
What I did not include were any thoughts or opinions, of which I have many.
To answer whether I found the WWWH with all of this, all I can say is that I did find A wwwh through this method, which I will keep to myself.
To answer the noun question above, I merely used the nouns per line, some were more than one. (some could be opinion when analyzing the direction of the poem rather than just compiling a list at face value, that is why I merely included the count.)
And to another above, I never said I was a good cook!

• Hi Jdiggins,

I apologize, I didn’t mean to call you a bad cook or a bad searcher! My playful sarcasm and poor attempt at a joke didn’t translate correctly. My smiley face emoji got lost in the mail. 🙂

I am no better a searcher than you, and you no better than I, as we both sit here without the chest.

I should have been more clear:

Forrest did say the following:

* “don’t mess with my poem” and

* “ Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f”

So I have been looking at a map. Maybe you’re on to something and I’m not. I’d love for you to prove me wrong!

All the best in the search,
X.

• DM,

The double asterisk ” ** ” in your text is what I wanted to share. I am quite confident that FF has never tried to deceive the search community. If he has stated that formulas, codes & ciphers are not needed, we should pay close attention to that advice.

IMHO, the poem is truly a map telling us how to go from one place to the next. It is sublimely subtle and some of the words in the poem need to be looked up for alternate meanings. Don’t ignore the nouns.

Good luck JDiggins. You obviously put a ton of time into generation of your facts, but pay more attention to what FF has said about it and less time on speculative mathematical manipulations of The Poem.

-Zoe

• Zoe

I often think about ff asking searchers not to mess with the poem and the statement “some searchers overrate….” supplied above.

Two things come to mind on the first.
1. ff does not play by the rules on the grammar front. So, is it “Dont mess with my poem” or “Dont!! (halt) Mess with my poem!”.
2. He tells us he did not care much to what his teachers had to say. Is that a hint? Should we listen

As for “some searchers overrate….”. That statement is so wide open to interpretation that I would (myself) not even try to understand what he was saying.

I am not condoning messing with the poem. I am just passing on my thoughts.

\dIb/

• dlb,
Regarding #1, I truly believe that FF detests the pedantic rules of English (Comma placement in particular). He believes that if the sentence is utterly unambiguous, then it should be a valid way of writing. I agree with him. Do not end a sentence with a preposition? Churchill rebutted that rule with:

“This is the sort of English up with which I shall not put.”

He avoided ending that sentence with the preposition “with,” but at what cost?

Regarding #2, IMHO, that one is a hint, but it is very subtle 😉

-Zoe

• Hi Daniel,

That quote has always bugged me. Why?

Because even though an ‘icon’ can simply be a logo we all easily recognize, Forrest has known many iconic people, movie and TV stars for example, but also people that meant a lot to him on a more personal level, like Suzanne Somers, Eric Sloane, Mike Kammerer, and Charmay, just to name a few. People he really respected and wants to emulate.

Riddles. “But if you’re gonna find the treasure, you’re gonna have to solve the riddle that’s in my poem”, 5/8/17, On the Road with Charlie – Part 1.

He also says we don’t need to know formulas, so why did he provide information in TTOTC we can use to write a simple formula?

Fonts aren’t important either, but he’s told us TTOTC is a good resource and on the last page with the infamous ΩΩ, he tells us he used two different text styles in the book.

If curved lines and magnetic variation aren’t important then what’s the purpose of the curved magnetic variation (declination) lines on the map in TFTW? He’s told us “Some people say I have a desire to mislead. That is not true.” I believe him, I really do.

And what about ‘head pressures’? One might immediately assume he’s referring to water pressure or something measured with a gauge. But there are other head pressures, like the stress of everyday life, an upcoming job interview, or a nasty head ache.

So what does that leave us with? Honestly, I don’t know other than it appears to me he’s not being consistent if taken at face value. But I don’t think that’s it. A good teacher doesn’t tell you the answer; he/she leads you to it so it will mean more because you figured it out. You learned something.

Could this be a part of the 15% – 85% rule and our job is figure out which is which?

Pinatubocharlie

• Daniel Marsden – Noticed your ‘X’ mark at the end of your comment. Did you know that pirates really didn’t make treasure maps, let alone put an ‘X marks the spot’ on them? I think it is a big hint that there is no ‘X’ in the Poem. Thanks for pointing that out, Jdiggins!

But, RLS famously put an ‘X’ on his ‘good map’, which you can see here:

https://images.app.goo.gl/TsLwLDLbK6ZUUPot8

That map ‘key’ or ‘legend’ says, ‘A Scale of 3 English Miles’…

Hmmmm….

• Daniel Marsden – Lest we forget, that the quincunx symbol is cast repeatedly on the bronze chest:

https://www.ancient-symbols.com/images/symbol-directory/quincunx.jpg

As someone pointed out above:

Four Poem Corners:

AEDI > A DIE

“The die is cast” – Julius Caesar

Forrest went ‘alone in there’. Unfortunately for my ancestor, Julius, he did not.

Jdiggins – That ‘a’ crosspoint in the center of the Poem is relevant to my Baker’S Hole solve.

Here is that line:

“If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,”

Did you know that ‘y’ and ‘z’ we’re not added to our modern Latin alphabet until 50 BC? Didn’t Julius Caesar do that?

Thinking about the Greek letter Sigma, which workS for my backwardS bike blaZe/blaSe in my Baker’S Hole solve:

If you’ve been wiSe and found the blaSe/blaZe…

• Look quickly down doesn’t mean a upset head down ?
I have maybe been misinterpreting things if not. I didn’t don’t really want to find the end of the poem if so . When the things that truelly make you happy always seem to be short lived you try to protect it by staying away from it . That could be the reason I have not found the x yet .

14. Fact: 4 Corner stones are A E I D (AIDE, IDEA)
Opinion: AIDE IDEA= HINT/CLUE

Putting my body to bed now, but I doubt my mind will rest! Night!
More tomorrow!

15. Thanks Jdiggins! Really kind of you to post your work for all to use the info.

Since the architectural cornerstones of the poem are I-d-e-a or perhaps identify I.D. the A E I’ve been looking at what E & A May represent, and also the DNA of the poem…

AND = 8 times in the poem.
AND Backwards = DNA 8 times

It won’t help find the gold, but I believe Forrest listed his unique DNA type and strands within the poem. IMO his DNA could be E/A iwhich May be relevant to ‘the part of him inside the chest’. Strands could be easily listed only requiring CATG letters.

• IMO the circular format of IDEA could also be a hint to how to utilize clustered letters in addition to linear words.

• Funny thing…
“Gone alone” = go neal one
Gene Ontology- NEIL1
For protein coding in dna

What’s interesting is this is the only set of combined words that yields anything worth mentioning.

16. Two things I noticed with the poem in my first week on the Chase.

The missing X
The use of “I Have” & “I’ve”

I believe I found both are for numerical reason and both reasons being different.

Only IMO

\dIb/

17. Kudos to jdiggens on sharing her ideas. You’re making my head spin with all the info!

18. That is a spectacular list of information and nicely organized. Thank you for sharing. We’ve been told that all of the information is in the poem… and this is a really good starter kit.

19. Sorry J Diggins

I know that you have put a lot of time, effort and thought into the above.

I personally don’t get it, Forrest says don’t overcook his poem and in my opinion that is exactly what you have done.

However you are not the first to do it and I’m sure that you won’t be the last.

But once again that is only my opinion.

Good luck to everyone this search season, I’m sure everyone is itching to get out and about when it is safe to do so.

Stay safe everyone

b

20. jgiggins

Thanks so much for taking the time to put together your list. You obviously put a lot of thought into it. I think we really need to explore many facets of the poem like you have done. Forest tells us that a person mustthink and analyze.

Just one other thing to say to you about WISE.

HERE ARE FOUR WORDS

what is the middle word?

Theres an IDEA in them.

21. JDiggins- it’s funny that you posted this as i was thinking something along those lines. what if the words of the poem are folded between the six stanzas? so putting the words of the poem in groups of 3 you can read the poem with the 1st word going thru the groups. the next is the poem back-words to the start and then the remaining at the end. there is an asterisk at the end 2 words as it doesn’t quite fit. here’s what it would look like:

AS IT THAT I IS I HAVE WHY MUST GONE SO GO ALONE PEACE. AND
IN IN LEAVE THERE GO MY AND AND TROVE WITH CHEST FOR
MY THE ALL TREASURES TAKE TO BOLD, JUST SEEK? I GAZE, THE
SECRET TARRY KNOW, WHERE, BUT I’VE AND CEASE, DONE HINT TO IT OF QUEST TIRED, RICHES YOUR AND NEW DOWN, NOW AND QUICKLY I’M OLD. LOOK WEAK. BEGIN BLAZE, SO IT THE HEAR WHERE FOUND ME WARM AND ALL WATERS WISE AND HALT BEEN LISTEN AND YOU’VE GOOD,
TAKE IF YOUR IT HIGH. EFFORT IN WATER WILL THE AND BE
CANYON LOADS WORTH DOWN, HEAVY THE NOT JUST COLD.
FAR, CREEK, IF BUT YOUR YOU TOO UP ARE FAR PADDLE BRAVE
TO NO AND WALK.BE IN PUT THERE’LL THE IN NIGH; WOOD
BELOW DRAWING I THE EVER GIVE HOME IS YOU OF END TITLE BROWN. THE TO FROM MEEK, THE
THERE THE GOLD. IT’S FOR * NO PLACE *
i was surprised on how the words match up in some places and rearranged they are interesting. like “secret tarry know”/ “old. look weak”/ “I as I”/ “gone so go” etc. great work on the poem stats!

22. The 9 I’s could mean something..

• I thought the same. Nine aspects of FF’s own life. Can you name them and marry them to a map?

23. I Jdig it

Numbers don’t lie.

Here’s some other numbers you may also wish to consider.

5

7

9

13

23

א

• Jdiggins–

It’s the heavy drinkers 6 days of Christmas

23 maids a milking
13 geese a layin’
9 Calling birds
7 French hens
5 golden rings
and a (hic! burp!) Partridge in a pear tree!

• 5 words in the title
23 w’s in the poem
23 rd word in the alpha beat (24 is x )
9 sentences 9 clues
’88 diagnosed with cancer

“And nothing’s ever what it seems”

24. Great writeup jdiggins, but how can a person decipher a solution without splitting hairs? No offense to any of you, because you’ve all been great and a tremendous help, but I truly have to ask if we’ve gone a bit too far in trying to figure this thing out.

Personally (and I don’t know about any of you), but I’ve pulled my hair out trying to make sense of Forrest’s poem and feel like I’m picking this thing to death. I’ve lost track of where I am on this trail and (here lately) I think I’ve counted more wrongs than rights. It’s gotten so bad, I’m even having dreams about Groucho Marx telling bad poem related jokes, while Snoopy is in his aviator outfit telling me which way to go.

Again, not trying to be rude, but the question is, how close do we need to get? Where is simple? How can we ever really say we’ve reached the end of that rainbow?

Sorry, I’m good now.

Composure is here… breathing… happy face… I’m smiling again.

I think the stress of Covid-19 and being cooped up has taken its toll.

25. Jdiggins – Wow! If this is what it’s going to take to find the chest, I better hang up my hiking boots right now….LOL! Seriously though, that was a lot of work, nice job. Will it help with the solve? Maybe, maybe not. But fun things to take note of for sure. 🙂

My take on the statement that he felt like an architect is a bit more conventional. I believe it was simply Forrest’s mastery of choosing words carefully to build/construct each sentence in a way to lead us on our journey. So when you think about what an architect does; he creates a plan/blueprint for someone else (the builder) to follow, of course that’s exactly what he did for us. Forrest I mean, not the architect. 😉 First he created a rough draft, then thru the years he kept modifying his “blueprint” until he was satisfied that the plans were perfect! All the information in the blueprint to find the chest is there…. IF you can figure out how to read them! So far I better stick to my day job……….

26. I think that FF must be a Freemason. Freemasons were once great architects and builders. They used many symbols which relate to architecture, such as a square and a compass. I think FF uses many of these symbols for us to figure out and draw according to the directions in his poem. At least that’s what I’ve found in the area I’m searching.

27. JDiggins—-

Thanks for all the hard work you put into that. Very interesting.

From the last SB–252: “I really like that IDEA”. 🙂

28. Thanks for sharing this. Don’t listen to the naysayers who are reading the poem literally, looking at a map, and wondering around looking for a blaze. They aren’t going to find the chest, 60 trips or 6000 trips. They should stay home and knit or work on a blog or something. You are on the right track. I like the idea. That being said, I don’t know where to start. I don’t have anything. Something in your solve is going to lead to the chest being found.

• Kaygee;

For a person who says ” I don’t know where to start. I don’t have anything.” –

If you do noppt know where to start, how can you say, ” You are on the right track..”

Then, you give out a lot of advice – like ” Don’t listen to the naysayers who are reading the poem literally, looking at a map, and wondering around looking for a blaze. They aren’t going to find the chest, 60 trips or 6000 trips. They should stay home and knit or work on a blog or something”

Just giving you a hard time – Pay no attention to me – you may be right – JDA

• Hi Kaygee,

I can’t agree with your statement about people who “reading the poem literally, looking at a map, and wondering around looking for a blaze. They aren’t going to find the chest, 60 trips or 6000 trips.”
I’m sure that everybody who is searching Rockies for Forrest TC has same probability to found it. This probability will become zero only after TC is found and Forrest get back his silver bracelet.
Well, some searchers already had 60 or even more BOTG but as Forrest said recently they can’t be qualified as “lead searchers”. According to Forrest, “lead searcher” is oxymoron. Because if you are very close to TC why you still not have it in your hands.
IMO, but everybody who believe that TC is still there should plan and do BOTG in Rockies. I hope that COVID-19 will not stop 2020 chase.

29. Sorry for my rant earlier. I’ve taken up my yoga position and have found peace now. Thank you for your solve jdiggins!

Hmmmm…

• For the record I ranted COMPLETELY out of order on The Hint of Riches, and I completely understand your apologies. This VIRUS is making us STIR CRAZY all pent up.

30. Thank you everyone for your comments! I appreciate them all, every one. Where would we all be if we thought the same? I merely offered this as we are all cooped up and I think now is a great time to think and analyze. Your ways may be similar or very different. This is not my solve or my solution, it’s just the way I began to tackle the poem 6 years ago. You hear that? SIX YEARS AGO! But I’ll tell you what, in those six years I have thoroughly BURNT the poem, not merely overcooked it! However, in doing this again and with all the thoughts over time, I am seeing a new light.
I believe 100% that warm waters halt at the snowline. They halt at altitude/elevation. Now, that being said, I do not believe we jump ahead to WWWH as has been said, even confirmed by Forrest himself. But, he had wiggle room in his confirmation.
Hear me out.
I’ve posted this before, but…If I can’t find my Keys, I try to remember, but I have no clue, No IDEA where they are. As I said above AIDE IDEA, IMO means hint/clue. I haven’t got the FIRST CLUE where I left my keys, but I have an IDEA where they might be. I believe the hint to the first clue is IDEA. The FOUR CORNERS of the poem. Well simple enough, If I go to the FOUR COURNERS National Monument, I’ve eliminated two of the four search states and now I am metaphorically halfway there….get it? To further, if I now only have CO and NM to work with, which has the most WWWH? Well, Forrest said it himself, nearly all of them are North of Santa FE. Colorado has the highest average elevation of the two, so boom, there’s my first clue! Colorado!
Take it or leave it, that’s my story and I’m stickin to it!

• jdiggins, well I like what you have displayed above and what you said here, you have real tenacity and grit if life throws you a lemon, and you make lemon pie…proves my point. Now would you like meringue on top of that? I too believe that Colorado is a fur sure in here somewhere, I know many AIDE’s that hint at CO, like this BIG ONE, which is a “Bird in the Hand”,… although ff called it
Frankie and Johnny…or Juan or One Important piece of Literature?
https://dalneitzel.com/2019/11/03/scrapbook-two_hundred-twenty-six/
if you understand this it is IMO a super “important hint”, see towhat, whom do we give the stick figure drawing a credit, is this a bird in the hand or a real “Birds eye View” so Tremendo and Terrifically revealing:

ff said, They lived in a big pandoroma just outside of our bedroom door upstairs at the gallery. It was not unusual for one of them to lose their footing on the roost, in the middle of the night, and tumble crashing about 3’ to the floor. f” Who are the two thiefs? Was it Kit Carson Buried in Colorado, from SCBook of Yazzie Yarnell dolls, or was it the mispelling of Pandoraoma that tells us he left the dor open so Where and WHat is the bird and the thief looking at? Colorado?

The bird is the same colors in Colorado’s flag, except for the eye, it IMHO represents the environmental features of the state. White symbolizes the snow on her mountains, gold acknowledges the abundant Colorado sunshine, red represents Colorado’s red soil, and blue is a symbol of her clear blue skies. Now remember the color of the bear in one of ff’s statements about being following the path, do not get lost in your train of thought. Keep this in focus and so many scrapbooks will be recalled in your imagination. Dough Preston hinted at this as an aide and got a reaction from ff, WHY?

Now if what I assume is true about the 4 corners you have spelled a 4 letter word, but something tells me that WWWH is a 5 letter metaphor and SC 241 shows us the Riddle in Braille, that is because you must learn it and feel it to understand where we begin to unravel the poem. pS the 5 letter word begins with an S…IMO

TG

• A correction here: The geographical place may start with a C, but the revealing metaphorical hint starts with an S, because there is a layer of something in this poem that hovers high above the geography, I just wish my drone was not in the shop that day, or was it he wind and snow…see youtube for more info.

TG

31. JDA, I like your style. It’s true I don’t have the first clue, or any clues for that matter. But neither does anyone else, except for the few who SUPPOSEDLY got the first two clues but didn’t know it.

What I like about JDiggens is that she shared a lot of detail about the poem structure. All poems have structure. All of it doesn’t have to necessarily be used in any solve but parts of what she shared might be important. Do you think solving the first clue is just starting at the correct hot spring? I don’t. The directions in the poem are not specific enough for the words to just be taken literally and then start looking at thousands of maps. FF already provided a map that contains the chest, yet the chest remains unfound. Good luck to all and thanks again Diggens.

• Kaygee;

“JDA, I like your style.” Thanks, I guess. Not sure what that style is, but thanks anyway.

” It’s true I don’t have the first clue, or any clues for that matter.”

You may have more than you think, it just hasn’t taken form yet 🙂

” But neither does anyone else, except for the few who SUPPOSEDLY got the first two clues but didn’t know it.” – Why SUPPOSEDLY? – Forrest has said that two (and maybe more) HAVE figured out the first two clues, and then went right past the other seven.

Not pickin’ on Ya’ Just askin. 🙂 JDA

• P.S. – Did you know that if you click on the “reply” button, your new post will fall directly below the comment that you are commenting on – Just like my post above, falls directly below your post – that way it is easy to tell that my new comment is directed you the comment you made directly above. JDA

• …” The directions in the poem are not specific enough for the words to just be taken literally…”

I don’t believe this. Seems the word “begin” in the poem indeed means begin, in the context of that line being the first clue. That would support the idea that taking the words literally would be beneficial.

F has also told us what “tarry scant” means in the poem. Many searchers took that phrase literally before f defined it and they were correct.

I bet the word “and” means and.

“As” means as.

And so on…

• Fundamental Design, do you know where those words from the “Begin it WWWH” line came from? If you know where it came from, you are on the right track IMO, otherwise, let’s all stay home and play Canasta. We do not have much choice, just idle time, yet we can philosophize…

Do you think that ff may have dropped a few hints along the way, sorta like bread crumbs, some get eaten by the birds and some may be, could be, necessary to see the layer above the geography where the poem riddle is? The one that gets you halfway there, metaphorically, just imagining the riddle, describes the geography, and cannot be seen nor understood unless we FEEL it with our spirit. Imagine the demands of the universe, The Great Spirit commands one to do this, in my religion. It is the Creator, not the creation we worship.

SO place this thought for each line, start at WWWH, is this when our spirit leaves the body,
Canyon Down, is ?
too far to walk, home of Brown etc.

If this poem were an epitaph on someones funeral pyer therein lies the metaphors that are the answers to the Riddle, see stanza 5, yes there is a riddle, so the definition of this, like a requiem, see SC 211 an important noun all nouns are important according to the Oracle, it could be a Funearl Pyer, it is framed by starting with “AS” past from this life. A Pyer is a pile of wood on which a corpse is burned as part of a funeral ceremony in some traditions. Now what tradition does Forrest Poem begin to sound like? Beowulf thank you. Gotta love Zuni directional fetishes too and Native American beliefs. They do not conflict with other beliefs so we may all understand them.

IF we want to know WWWH, and all other 8 clues we must see them with our spirit, it is the only way that this can be understood IMO so try it, tell me if there is a metaphor for the home of Brown, like it is clear as dirt if you know where home is after death…do that with all the clues and then the blaze may be seen perhaps? Just philosophizing with you or does the canyon down go much deeper?

TG

• TT – Yes, Beowulf! So,…what would Wiglaf do? Defend his master to the death? Plan the ceremony? End up becoming the next King? Are you following me here???

• Lisa, I had to help a neighbor who was sick, her son is from China and has epilepsy, she is in hospital so Tom is helping out. PS it is not Covid, but she has been hospitalized. SO I am slow to answer.

“Beowulf orders Wiglaf to go into the barrow, look at the treasure, and bring back some of it for him to see before he dies. Wiglaf obeys Beowulf’s dying wish and goes down into the barrow, where he finds amazing piles of treasure, all of it rusting and decaying. … The dragon is gone, killed by Wiglaf’s sword.” Kinda reminds me of SC Book 247 and what does Lisa think about the idea that FF would want to be in the wood for a funeral (pyre) fire, Like a Forrest FIre, he sometimes calls himself, the Vikings Kings at death were sometimes placed alone on a ship, put out to sea and a fire was lit to consume the King and Ship and even a dog might be placed at their feet.. There sure is a lot to think about, but the name of this is Facts about the poem or in the poem.

TG

• TT – Nice of you to help out. Like our illustrious ancestor, my eldest brother suffered from Epilepsy. I have the debilitating migraines that some have hypothesized was the true ailment of Julius Caesar.

My comments about Beowulf and Wiglaf are in reference to that ‘a’ in the ‘and’ in the ‘X’ crosspoint at this line of the Poem (mentioned above by Jdiggins):

“If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,”

You can do a ‘find in page’ in this link for ‘barrow’, ‘beacon’, ‘bier’ and ‘pyre’:

https://courses.lumenlearning.com/suny-britlit1/chapter/beowulf-sections-36-41/

I think both Beowulf and Wiglaf were wise. The dragon beast guarding the treasure? Not so much.

• Yosemite, since you referred to trying to figure out wwwh then I wouldn’t worry so much about clues after that like nfbtftw, no place for the meek, no paddle up your creek and so on. I’d take the words before the wwwh line literally.

Anyway, yes, on taking literally no place for the meek and no paddle up your creek. Even nfbtftw. What’s wrong with that?

32. It’s a fact that the word “hint” shows up in the poem. Maybe that’s a good place to start.

• Or would he rather be placed on a alter of sorts with a net thrown over him so the animals wouldn’t pack away his bones . Sharpen your sword and your wits…. Firefly

33. oy…… so much literary embroidery again. I think the spiritual path is: WWWH , a place of Awareness … HOB, a threshold moment…. blaze, confidence (wisdom) … i.e…. who you are, not who they think you are.

34. jdiggins,

Oh this thread has my attention! Thank you for organizing all of those pieces in one place.

I am especially interested in your statement that an “x” drawn from the 4 corners of the poem crosses on the word “and” (I have thoughts about that word). I assume this was done with the poem published in TTOTC. I am not able to do this myself right now or I wouldn’t ask, but would you be willing to share what happens if you draw that “x” from the four corners of the poem in TFTW? Where does that “x” cross?

-even

35. If you’re gonna bake a cake, you gather your ingredients first.
If you build something you want to have a materials list. (Important to note* the above is incomplete)

• That’s an impressive solve, Jdiggins. It’s very elaborate. I personally believe it’s much simpler than that though. If you read the poem in a certain way, there are only 2 clues. Remember what Forrest’s number one rule is, “It doesn’t matter who you are. It only matters who they think you are.” This same concept can be applied to ideas and objects as well. In other words, I think a lot of the stuff in the poem was added to make it seem more difficult than it really is. I know he said he worked on the poem for 15 years, but that story doesn’t totally add up. His doctors told him he only had a couple years to live. So how could he have known he would have the time to work on it that long? He would have had to do something quick and efficient.

• NoName6, Dr Taylor in about 1987, 88-time frame had bad news about the mortality odds for Forrest Fenn’s survival, and as you stated he would not know how long he had to live, stanza 5 seems to echo this, but ff survived and had written and revised this poem apparently over many years, he quotes 15, but the timeline just does not work because 1988 to 2010 or the day, it is a lot more years than 15 years. Dough Preston seems to have had some knowledge of Forrest’s plan very early in the hide, even before 2010, but even ff says he revised it and changed some wording to such expression/wording as “Take the Chest but leave my bones”…do not quote me on those exact words.

The final product of his epitaph or requiem poem includes an embedded list IMO, line by line of metaphors that to me is all about the imagined geographical places in two states. The reason I think that comes down to this, why would Forrest Fenn have invested so much money, time and effort and a focal point in his Memoirs just to tell us about someplace he knew as a kid? That is a little like this song called “Shallow” to me it would be a shallow idea and not fulfill a poetic end of story:
Tell me somethin’, girl
Are you happy in this modern world?
Or do you need more?
Is there somethin’ else you’re searchin’ for?
I’m falling
In all the good times I find myself
Longin’ for change
And in the bad times I fear myself

It is hard for me to believe that WWWH is just a warm comfortable spring somewhere in the Rockies, granted there are many norht of SF, but what is important literature for? Raising our Spirits might be a clue to see WWWH. When IT is found we will all be saying “Why did I not see that ?”

TG

• Thanks NoName6.
That’s a good point.
However, that is the beauty of facts, they are solid.
It is our interpretation of the facts that determine the outcome.

36. S
The sequence 7 154 56 11 yields “There are no treasures”
7 63 56 104 yields “There is no chest”
I could go on ….
/S
🙂 🙂
mBG

37. Sounds like the math needed for figuring my stimulus check. Pretty sure it ends with a negative balance.

38. Thanks for posting and sharing this Jdiggins.

One thing I have debated before is regarding the contraction “it’s”, which can have 2 answers. You have identified the “it is” form, but left out the “it has” form.

“It’s been a long time” is an example of the “it has” version of the contraction.

My way of looking at the poem usually goes against the grain, but I like to think that such generally has plausibility. Reading the line with an “it has” version is subtly different than the “it is” version. The former seems to indicate the that where you are going to has no place for the meek (my dead end canyon solve scenario) as opposed to the entire area already being no place for the meek as the latter seemingly describes. Factor in the words of the poem “From there” which precede the contraction, and “it has” makes a little more sense to me because we are leaving that “from there” spot to go to/towards the NPFTM spot, whereas reading such as “it is” indicates that entire the surrounding landscape is already NPFTM.

Again, just a subtle difference and IMHO.

• Bowmarc—

I was actually thinking something similar the other day. The statement “From there it’s no place for the meek” could be considered this way–say you are talking about Kansas City:

“Kansas City? I’m from there. It’s no place for the meek”.

So I understand your “It’s” being “It has”. Very good point IMO.

• Very good point Bomarc, I like the ‘it has’ option.

39. Heres another imo
Counter Clockwise
2 c’s
To see
Idea
Why does it sound like I’m talking in circles?

• Jdiggins,

Reminds me of an old Cher song, “if I could turn back time”… Counter clockwise.

Maybe we need to break down those 2 words?

ByGeorge

idea=
i= 160th word(1+6+0=7)
d= 166th word(1+6+6=13, 1+3=4)
e= 7th word (7)
a= 1st word (1)
7+4+7+1=19, 1+9=10
10th word = my
= my idea…:)
74+71=145
74+17=91
145+91+10=246 = 24 6= 6 6= FF.
All means nothing, but fun to play…

40. U7ants,

There’s only 3 bases and home plate in baseball, Technically.

Personally, 4 bases works fine. It’s just a game anyway.

ByGeorge

41. Imo
The poem…
In eights…octaves

2×4 (wood)
= 8

Trove = pieces of 8

88

Eight man crew of a rowing boat?

8 = Mormon baptism

Ate = eight = 8

August- 8 – au – gold

Ocho

Two zeros — Zorro ?

Pontificate

42. I believe that there is something else in the book that you must analyze to this level of detail to find the treasure chest. I will call it a “code” to give it a name but not give it away.

To my utter amazement to this day, not one person who has posted on this website, or any other website on the internet that I have visited, has written about this code. If someone else has found it, maybe they’re keeping mostly quiet like me.

The one person who even kind of sort of dances near the idea behind the code on this page is Yosemite Sam. Once you discover the code, you will understand why it took Forrest 15 years to build it. Using the code, I could direct you to any point on the planet from any other starting point. And I could tell you in a way that someone who has not uncovered the code would not understand. Truly, a hidden code.

It’s really frickin’ ingenious, and I find it nearly impossible to believe that no one else has uncovered the code. I am not making this up to sound clever. It’s woven throughout the book — if you page through the book, it’s right there!

If you want to find the x on a map, stop analyzing the poem for a while, and analyze the book for a year. (That’s about how long it took me to finally spot what’s right in front of me.) Then go back and use the poem to plug items into the code to build your map.

Can anyone guess what I’m talking about?

Every day we get one foot closer to the treasure chest.

• I find that idea fascinating, but I would be dubious of the idea of it didn’t tie in with the warm waters halt comments by Forrrrest

43. From above:
5 contractions:
it’s, there’ll, you’ve, I’ve, I’m
It is, there will, you have, I have, I am
Missing letters: IWIHAHAA
Missing words: is will have have am
If you look at these missing words, there are 2 have a. Is that a whole?
Anagram the missing without the 2 haves and you get
Williams.

• Or if It’s stands for It Has, and There’ll stands for There Shall, as in some English constructs, then you have the missing letters of
Ha, sha,ha , haa.
Missing words: has, shall, have, have, am
Just another rabbit hole

44. Jdiggins—-

Kit Williams was the author of the very first Treasure hunt—-the search for the Golden Hare.
Another rabbit hole? (oops I mean hare hole?) lol

45. When I say “very first” I don’t mean all treasure hunts—-just the spate of hunts since 1980 or so. Kit Williams was the first to have a book that led to a treasure.

46. One last thing about Kit Williams. His name, if you anagram it is “I will mask it”—-just an interesting tidbit.

• Here’s a VERY interesting (not merely “interesting”) tidbit:

If you anagram punxsutawney phil, you get phil punxsutawney.

In my opinion, as always.

• “Richard Feynman (a physicist) used to go up to people all the time and he’d say “You won’t believe what happened to me today… you won’t believe what happened to me” and people would say “What?” and he’d say “Absolutely nothing”.

• Syntax Phil….with play nexus pun. phil punxsutawney, pun nexus play with.

• Oh. Trying to be funny. Ha ha. I just mentioned the anagram because in another search forvthexGolden Horse was a clue ” here is a clue but I will mask it”. Many believed the clue was Kit Williams. But I’m still laughing hysterically at your Punxsutawney Phil reference. It was packed with well thought out sarcasm and dazzling wit. Thanks.

• Nice cover art… on the Golden Horse. I still haven’t a clue to what’s being masked.

• Suzy—

I still have the book. That was really a great Treasure hunt—too bad there was a tainted ending to it. A lot of people still don’t believe the guys actually “solved” it—that they were given inside information. The Treasure had already been retrieved because the deadline ended. But the two guys supposedly “solved” the hunt by finding where the treasure had been buried.

• Sparrow, I’m not sure if anything was ever proven about inside information or if anybody was ever proven as cheating in the Golden Hare (I mean, Horse – lol). I do know a lot of people point the fingers at winners since it becomes easier to do that than putting some hard work into it themselves.

However, I do believe this treasure hunt is unlike any other that I’ve seen.

Forrest has given everyone the same opportunities to learn, take action, and claim the throne. Clever as they might be, we just have to figure out what those things are and understand that hard work is involved. When Forrest said that winners would deserve it, I don’t think he wasn’t kidding!

In my opinion, nothing is simpler than an easy puzzle, and this is simply nothing like an easy puzzle!!

• Your right about it not being easy Suzy_S. People have been trying to solve it using singular methods.

It seems to be similar to what is known in the antique business as a “marriage piece”. Something that is made up of many parts from different era’s or styles, but creates a balanced end product.

IMOO

• Suzy–
I agree with you completely. Everyone is given the same information in this Treasure hunt and I don’t believe anyone has an unfair advantage in any way. I have enjoyed searching since end of July 2016. Its been fun the whole time. All the best to you in your search!

47. Jdiggins
When I am trying to solve puzzles I often color and/or make bold words and/or letters in groups. I change the groups and colours, making different versions etc. I would then laminate them and put a different one on a wall in a each room. Its surprising how this can open up multiple channels of thought.

Back of the bog door for your favourite. Thrones are for thinkers!

48. Diggins-
The architect of the poem put things in the right places. Life events of fenn can be found all over the poem. Using numbers for each word gives you wise @ 83. The same year his father passed away, 1983. If you look at the doubles like 11, 22, 33, 44…etc you get treasures, riches, look, marvel, gold. Some of the double digits don’t fit with this. Taking the “IT” and their places in the poem; they are at 27, 34, 55, 112, and 132. They total up to 360. A circle! The odd one in the bunch; IT’S; falls right in the middle. Putting a “S” inside a circle gives you the yin and yang symbol. BALANCE. So the IDEA of the poem is to turn either time or balance to your favor. IMO.

• John, I think his father passed away later than 1983, he was born in 1903 see page 144 TTOC, but what you referring too I get, you are showing that something is deeper, embedded and even sublime in the Riddle, I have always felt like this was an Epitaph or a Requiem of sorts because BRAVE AND IN THE WOOD is what happens to a worthy Native American warrior or chief or even a Viking King when they are on the funeral pyre.

I think Beowulf was identified as a Geat which was a Viking culture that originated in Sweden. A Viking culture known as the Danes found in Denmark. In the poem Beowulf there was a place mentioned many times which was the mead-hall. In Beowulf a mound was built over the place where the hero had been cremated. … Gifts were usually laid with the corpse (or the ashes in case of cremation) in the ground. Burial ships released to the sea were equipped by gifts as well, in Beowulf the gifts were also put on the pyre to be burnt together with the hero. Sometimes a dog was sacrifice and left at the feet of the King, and a ship was set ablaze and launched out to sea.

TT

• Now I wonder about SC Book 243, I remember Bip, bucket list of ff is compiled and the 9 clues are in focus for some, but a River Runs through it and the end of this one Forrest Fire says; “That story is full of reminiscing words and I feel better for having said them.

Now it’s back to A River Runs Through it, page 9. Thank you S.

IS SKIPPY or Bippy mans best friend? Find a place in a canyon where a river runs through it that borders in your imagination where a view might be a Mavel Gaze into the past and a passage of rites where memories fade and time is not more.

Figure out the riddle and solve the location metaphors, for this is the key IMHO to where he took his father when he was 80.

TT

• Yup, read, read read maybe think too. Lots of righting. One of these days the treasure will get found.

• I was searching online all winter, trying to find Scotty, in hope he would beam up the TC for me. Now the danger weather has passed I have begun strapping drones to my giant hula-hoop. I intend to add an electromagnet, then fly it over the Rockies. I am confident ff’s bracelet will suck it from the sky, giving me a location.

After reading, “Sixth, I think I will be a little let down if someone finds the treasure in the next several years”. Maybe I should put my hula-hoop to better use and find a new hobby!

I don’t want to let the big man down!

• BigOnus, it’s so sad when you put it that way. Makes me, for one, think about giving up the search.

Do you think Forrest still feels this way?

• Suzy_S,

I’d say search away! Fishing is not called catching, and searching is not called finding. And neither of the latter are required to enjoy the adventure. IMHO

• Its difficult to try and understand what Forrest might really want, Suzy_S.

I think he will have mixed feelings about it. Part of him wanting it to be lost forever and the other part of him will want to be around when the painting is unveiled for the world to see.

• Suzy_S – I just wonder at times about a searcher who might one day kick down the door, trample all over EVERYTHING.

Yes I agree, new has to replace old. It needs to be a never ending story. I watched Dal, Candy, Cynth etc and these guys were having so much fun. The time and effort they put in is commendable and you can see its not just about the tc. They love the chase.

I am changing my key word to continuance. Without it we have nothing.

IMOO

• BigOnus, considering all the time Forrest has placed into this, we can’t forget about the dedication he put forth. I think it would only be fair to him if the finder considered this and allowed the puzzle to continue in a slightly revised manner.

IMO, there’s no need to start a new puzzle if only the finder knows the answers, so I’m going to offer a conjecture on continuance.

Since Forrest stated that most of the clues remain unknown, maybe the treasure finder could keep the puzzle going by branching off of Forrest’s already well-thought-out poem and hide a new prize at another one of Forrest’s unknown clue locations. Either that or change the ending location by adding one more location.

As it’s been 10 years with only a few of the clues being solved, it seems to me there would be a lot of puzzle yet to be deciphered as countless years unfold in unraveling the remainder.

• Suzy_S;

Why change the location to a new Forrest known spot? Why not just leave something of value at the spot where the “finder” – finds Indulgence? Maybe even leave a note that maintains the secrecy of “Finder #1”, yet lets “Finder #2” know that she / he has indeed found the spot that once held Indulgence. Ask Finder #2 to leave something of value for “Finder #3 etc. I suspect that Forrest wants to keep the location a secret, so and future “Finders” should keep this in mind, and yet let the “Chase” continue. Just a thought – JDA

• OOPS – Typo – – – – so and future “Finders” – should read: so ANY future “Finders” — Sorry JDA

• JDA, I guess your suggestion would maintain the integrity of the poem without having to modify the original. But given “eventuality”, I’m thinking the treasure’s location might become the most sought after place on planet earth as the word leaks out. On the other hand, it may be humourful to see people jump out of their vehicles and run to the treasure location with each consecutive hide.

If the location can be kept a secret though, who knows? Maybe someone someday will come up with a comic strip called, “Fenn’s Funnies”, that can be used as hints to where the treasure hides.

Talk about immortality, who doesn’t love humor?

• Guys, I didn’t mean replace as such. More evolve. There is no way in a 1000 years one would be able to replicate or replace what ff has done here. The lengths he has gone to are second to none. I am merely scratching the surface myself, but can see so many coincidences and other things that seem frankly bizarre. So much so, I even begin to questions Forrests own existence.

A finder might actually be more advanced than we give credit for. I doubt they will have everything, but I suppose they will know which leaves to look under in a quest to complete the puzzle in its entirety over time.

I have no doubt the type of person that solves this would remain silent in all, including as to the location, if requested by ff, and allow others to keep enjoying the Chase. They will be a very level headed thinker.

IMO

• John, you are thinking deeply, that is what it takes, something about your name seems to ring a bell loudly, look at SC Book 171 and 172 https://dalneitzel.com/2017/04/05/scrapbook-one-hundred-seventy-two/ both of these have something in common with SC 169, a church, a bell and a kiva support which houses a bell, Chaos and then a calm remembrance, this idea of Forrest not misleading someone is clear enough to focus logically upon, something tells me there is a spiritual message here and it becomes clear at WWWH and blazes at clue number 9.

TT

• Gold coins in the eyes! Thats why look and marvel are at the double numbers! To pay the boat man! Imo

49. I couldn’t get to the odds and ends page!!! Gonna get a citation from Dal probably, failure to use proper signs and signals while in the hov lane being awesome.
Anyway it’s EARTH DAY!¡!!!!!
SO HAPPY EARTH DAY EVERYONE.

50. JDiggins,

These pieces of information are what I call the structure of the poem. Whether they relate or help in any way .. I D K. However, you touch on some item and not others… such as;
while you mentioned the capital letters, I think they could reference where we need to be at to get started;
(9) sentences (6) stanzas (4) lines per stanza (25) capital letters =44

A/5 B/2 F/1 I/5 J/2 L/1 N/1 P/1 S/2 T/3 Y/1 [0] caps in 24 lines

44. 52’.1[5]2” -111. 23’.10”…… 44.7787 = (6th stanza)= (44 46’ 43”)?

note: in part the I’s must go, for accuracy [5 I’s]

Also the word count of each line produces some interesting numbers;
‘7567’-‘6777’-‘8676’-‘8768’-‘8858’-‘7787’ word count of ea. line in a stanza.[stanzas 1 2 3 4 5 6]
and
25-27-27-29-29-29 word count of ea. Stanza total.[stanzas 1 2 3 4 5 6]
The first set of number could relate to elevation factors of a give clue. The second set of numbers is up for grabs.

I bring this up because you mentioned 5 contractions:
Which is actually made from two words. But is there a reason for the word count in any given line to be needing a contraction to create one word vs. two word for counting…. fenn did say it would be “unwise to discount any word” In doing so, they should be counted as one word because he made them to be that way.
One other thing that has bugged me is stanza’s 2 “Begin IT…”
IF it is nothing more that a word.. that word is not needed. The poem could have read; “begin where WWsH” However, imo, begin IT and take IT in mean the same process.

Just thoughts for a thought provoking fact post.

Another little tidbit is; from the A in As to the T in treasures counting all spaces, produces the number 42… the weight of the chest.
Also, using the mirror idea; AS I in stanza one is reverse as ISA or possibly Isa lake.

While these number counts are factual… the question is are they usable?
Can as shown above, produce a full set of coordinates? Possibly to get a searcher in the right locate to discover the clues? Can the word counting of line in each stanza produce 4 numbers for elevations?
Or are we only seeing what we hope is information?
The fact that these factors can be discovered is interesting when attempting to see an “actual” architectural design within the poem.

• I like the elevation factors idea. Mostly because it seems like a fun problem to solve with a computer:

Take a topo map of the Rockies, take those elevation slices, make some assumptions of the maximum distance between clues, and you got some nice trails to wear out those boots.

• That’s one way to go about it, yet that covers many many miles of guessing.
IF.. repeat, IF the poem was designed with this in mind… We would still need the correct location to search, and use the elevations as possible confirmation of clues.

Attempting to just check out elevations over a four states area equates to looking for a single source of WWsH in any given state… There is just too many to try and eliminate.

We need a location to even start to search, first and foremost. IMO.
The question is (using any idea of some kind of structure with in the poem) does the poem give all a place to look at?
Like; the use of the capital letters?

While we can pull out numbers and such from the poem.. we still would need to understand how they work.

• It would seem that way Seeker.

If this was a game of baseball and we were already stood on the home plate, then why would we need to make the run? We would do quite the opposite and stay!

• I believe the exact place and elevation was known to Sitting Bull. Or do you consider that to be assumptive?

51. JDA & Suzy_S,

Earlier you were discussing ways to perpetuate the search and JDA, you suggested that the successful finder leave something valuable behind where the treasure chest was found for someone else to find. I’ve had similiar thoughts for a while now but about 6 months ago one of my few remaining neurons fired off yielding an idea I believe Forrest would approve.

We all know how Forrest loves charities and fund raisers, so why not continue the search as you suggest with this twist. The finder could use his/her knowledge to auction off hints, with 100% of the proceeds going to charity. I don’t have the expertise as to the mechanics of how it would work, but consider it a viable idea to keep the search moving forward for those who want to come up with the “correct solve”, with a smaller, but valuable reward at the end.

The other idea I have which doesn’t have anything to do with perpetuating the Chase but also involves charity, is to publish Forrest’s autobiography and donate 100% of the profits to charity.

After all, he’s given the search community so much, why not return the ‘favor’ and honor him and his memory in these ways?

Pinatubocharlie

• charlie;

As I indicated, I think that Forrest wants to keep the location a secret. I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure I am right. I think that the idea to auction off hints seems to be in direct opposition to the idea of keeping the location a secret, and continuing the Chase for as long as possible.

People are people, and as someone once said – something about two can keep a secret – if one of them is dead. – eventually, the location would be known by several, or even many people. It would be sad if the “Hidey Spot” became a “Vacation Location” – That would be sad. JMO – JDA

• Pinatubocharlie, great ideas!

But I have to ask JDA why he would be against a memorial at the treasure location? Maybe allow visitors to come and see Forrest’s marvelous spot for themselves? Then people could still play part in a contest and where people would have to discern how the location was discovered by the finder.

Regardless of choice, there seems to be numerous possibilities. I would love to hear Forrest’s opinion on some of these.

• JDA and others,

If the movie is made properly, I think all will feel satisfied and the location of the spot can remain elusive.

JMO….John

• Suzt-S;

“I” am neither for nor against. My “feeling” is that Forrest would not want the location divulged. “I” could be wrong. IF “I” were lucky enough to find Indulgence, one of the first things I would do (after feinting) would be to talk with Forrest about “HIS” wishes >>> And I would honor those wishes.

Forrest has described this place as being “Special to him.”
Why is it special? We may never know. Does it relate to childhood memories? Does it relate to it being a “Healing” place for Forrest after cancer, or even after Vietnam? Is it related to Forrest’s love of archaeology? If so, the area may be “Archaeologically sensitive”. There may be vestiges of an ancient culture that should not be disturbed, and Forrest might want the location kept a secret to “Protect the archaeological significance” of the site.

I can think of a hundred reasons why Forrest MIGHT not want the location divulged – but that would be up to Forrest, NOT ME – were I lucky enough to find that “Special Place.”

As far as “I” am concerned – the site and Indulgence would not mine (IF I found Indulgence), they are Forrest’s – It would ALL be up to him. JMO – JDA

• JDA, Since ff is comfortable and at peace in his ‘church’ do you ever think the “no place for the meek” might actually be a city or crowded type place?

• We could evolve that JDA to; Two can keep a secret – if one of them is deaf.

I am not sure why you believe people cannot keep secrets. The power of holding that knowledge has in itself great rewards, in a spiritual way. Keeping it to yourself is purity. Maybe a finder does not care too much about the money, so why would they destroy something they helped develop.

IMOO

52. I think Forrest will have a say in the end. Either way he sent the whole world there in a sense. It’s possible everyone has went there but doesn’t know it. 200 ft, 500ft, 12ft, ect has been thrown out there over the years I guess. I myself question alot of that though, where I’m going this year is where I went last year and it definitely seems like people are 200 or 500 ft away due to the ginormous overgrowth of plants. Seed like no one had really seeen the place in years. Swore I heard tumble weeds rolling, while smelling the sage.

53. “And hint of treasures new and old”
new is obvious, old is memories-so it isn’t going to be somewhere he hasn’t written about, “hint” is a strong clue

“where warm waters halt”
is two warm rivers, where warm waterS halt they become one

There is one clue that seems so insignificant, and no one ever talks about it, and neither am I, but it is like having a secret latch to reveal where an unlocked safe is hidden. I may try to go searching this summer. I am 73 now, in fairly good health, but it is soooo far away.

• Rich, I just clicked on your name and visited your website. I’ll have to say, very interesting stuff. I might be interested in making money in the manner you describe.

• … even more interesting is the video concerning a link between spirituality and science. The proof is out there!

• One more thing… the Sefer Yetzirah describes something I’ve studied for years. Amazing!

54. “In the wood”
means it is not deep in a forest. Since wood refers to a grouping of trees. Think like on the side of a mountain. I believe he hide it someplace that will be permanent . Rocks are permanent. Also, from the side of a mountain or rocky hill he would have a view of a special place. What did Forrest enjoy doing more than anything else? You have to analyse everything, every detail, of what he said . A school kid asked him a question once, and he said a big gigantic clue that I don’t believe he meant to. You can narrow down thousands of places just by knowing that one mistake he made. People ignore too much when looking for the treasure.

55. The fact of the matter is that something happens when we assume. That’s even true when taking the advice of Shakira’s hips – I was informed those don’t lie, but honestly the source had only shaky evidence.

I’m reminded of that old saying “a man who is not confused is not well informed” . We have plenty of that going around. You know what I mean.

Given the choice, I’d take a searcher that loves being wrong over one that loves being right.
Maybe we need to get back into the box then think out of the box before the oxygen runs out. Maybe cut out a window to stick our hands out and check the weather because cardboard castles don’t hold up well in thunderstorms. I like that idea.

What was I on about? Oh yeah the poem. Facts.

It’s important to the story but I’m not going to tell you what it is. Story = plan. Plan = goal. Goal=score. Fenn vs searchers 1-0 .

56. It’s not the structure of the poem that’s important to the searcher, it’s the structure of the rules. You need to know the rules. You need to know the Fenn rules. Well just my opinion.

• I didn’t say that. But your job is to convert the poem to a map. But first you gotta figure out the rules. That’s all I’m sayin. Of course it’s only my opinion. That and \$4 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks I’ve been told. That’s my wife’s opinion.

• BigOnus, couldn’t a star also have hands? How else would a Hollywood Star punch a time clock?

I think the asterisk that Forrest speaks about has got to be some Hollywood Star.

• BigOnus, couldn’t a star also have hands? How else would a celebrity punch a time clock?

I think that the asterisk Forrest speaks about has got to be some Hollywood Star.

• Its very possible.

Problem is, I have dreams of turning into a movie star myself when I pull my socks up and that becomes dangerous.

• I like tiny stars, Suzy_S. They remind me of books. We all start with small steps and then we stride through time. Melding the rules, searching for our own basket of gold, sit on our throne and rules are created. Surely the temple is where we reign and our bow is how we protect and project love around the world.

IMOO

• That’s a beautiful synopsis of life, BigO!
Feels like a rainbow I’m touching now… Colors that fill my world!

• Life is a wonderful thing Suzy_S. It is a journey that holds no bounds if we allow our imagination to run free and wild.

Sometimes I just want to take Forrests poem and make my own ending. Break the rules, shake it up and do what I like, but I know he gets cross with me when I let my mind control my brain!

• I believe you are completely right, BigO.

Imagination intersects one’s fate, allowing rules and regulations to bound to new heights, while additionally allowing those stars to find their peaceful place in a never-ending land of freedom.

To me, imagination is the greatest gift of all. Absent of its presence, there is no journey forward and life is merely lived without substance.

• Beautifully said Suzy_S.

Imagination!

I had a dream I was on a return train journey home from seeing my mother. I was sleeping in my cabin and woke up very early. All was silent except the repetition of the carriage battering the tracks.

I rose and walked down the corridor. There was a whistle and I remember smelling the burning coals. Then I saw a door, with canasta written on it. I let myself in, it was dark, and that’s when I heard it for the first time.

I switched the light on and saw the poem was written on the wall. There was little anthropoidal shaped box on a chair, omitting music. I opened it, the music stopped and there was a key.

I woke up again!

Imagine that eh! 🙂

• Extremely interesting thoughts, BigO! The kind that make one’s imagination run wild!

• Suzy_S, my magic socks are to blame.

Now, my slippers make a whole load of difference!

• That’s a good remiider, just to convert the poem to a map, from the ideas and places in the book, in a child like frame of mind.

57. Suzy_S,

Your Hollywood Star comment above resulted in a premature detonation of one of my few remaining neuron’s. That’s a VERY good thing in case I confused you. It’s funny how a simple comment like yours can trigger a lost thought, a remarkable and rewarding one at that.

I just hope I can remember the door it opened by the time I finish posting this comment.

Time to celebrate and go BBQ that 8oz filet mignon I found the other day.

Thank you so much and please stay safe & take care,

Pinatubocharlie

58. I gave the poem to a child…
It was inspected end to end with a Crayola pen light(no hints found).
Was told to watch gravity falls cartoon to learn how to treasure hunt.
Giving poem to child hasn’t helped yet…. waiting for effect….

59. Hi JDiggins: a few more stats you can add to your tally:

There are 111 unique poem words (i.e. 55 repeats)
There is at least one poem word starting with every letter of the alphabet except V, X and Z.
The fourth stanza contains every letter except X, and every letter at least twice except J, M, P and X.
The longest word in the poem is TREASURES (the only 9-letter poem word).
The only 3-syllable word in the poem is “ALREADY”.
If you anagram the missing letters of all the contractions, it can spell “AH, HAWAII”. 🙂

• I like that analogy Zap…!!

But you forgot that SB 229 is only one example of where Forrest included an X in his submission of SB posts. Seems to me that Forrest’s inclusion of these posts would have discernible relevance to the Chase. In fact, they may even contain discernible GE targets.

• Forgot to add. Whether or not the vehicle you own can get you to one of those targets may leave you in a rut of how to defeat the poems reference to 242 walk. A road grader may be a highly prized possession in certain situations.

• I hear road graders can be very disastrous, so best stop darning those socks and find better use of time.

There is a flip side to all this.

• BigO, thanks for the advise!

I’m mostly just kidding. Regardless of the condition of modern roads, we are spoiled compared to what our ancestors had for travels.

I’ll just breath, take in the natural history, and imagine how life existed once upon a while.

By the way… Anyone have a horse I can borrow?

60. thinking we live in the home of the brave Being brave is part of our daily life
the home of brown may be your back yard that opens a few more possibilities.
good day all stay safe and brave out there.or in there in many cases