Thinking About Far…

canyonMAY 2020
by dal

 

We shall not cease from our exploration
And at the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time

(2/4/13)
(LINK)

If a person will think, they can find the chest; but the secret is to think and analyze… they can find the chest.10:23
(4/2/13 – World Report)
(LINK)

One of the lines I find most perplexing in the poem is in the second verse:
Not far, but too far to walk.

As straight forward as that line seems, particularly in comparison to other lines in the poem, it is its very own riddle. For nearly ten years I have been trying to apply that line to dozens of solutions with no real sense of satisfaction.

How far is “not far”…and how far is “too far to walk”?

I’ve used distances that seemed correct for Forrest.
I’ve used distances that seemed right for an ant.
I’ve used distances that seemed applicable to me.
I’ve tried saying that if the distance is too far to walk then I should drive or take a bike.
And I’ve tried a lot of other ideas too.
But they all felt squishy…nothing really clicked into place…

I thought maybe my issue was with the word “far”…
Google’s definition of the word “far”-

far
adverb
1.
at, to, or by a great distance (used to indicate the extent to which one thing is distant from another).
2.
over a large expanse of space or time.

It’s that second definition that got me thinking.
What if Forrest is not talking about distance. What if he’s talking about time.
Okay…Forrest is clever but I don’t think that even HE has developed a way to travel through time…

But wait!
What about traveling through geologic time over geography..
That happen’s a lot…we all do it…particularly in the mountains.

It’s the actual Time/Space Continuum.
Think of a road cut through rock…or a canyon…

layersThe rim of a canyon can be millions of years distant from the floor of the same canyon.
As a river cuts a canyon through solid rock it exposes the layers of sediment and rock that were laid down millennia earlier…epochs earlier…eras earlier…TIME.
As we walk the length of the canyon we are walking through far stretches of time.

Too far to walk…It would be impossible to walk far through time…and certainly no one can walk a thousand years…that’s too far…except in geologic time. It’s commonly done…we do it all the time, without even thinking about it.

Maybe “far” is describing traveling through geological time as we move through a canyon…

The second stanza in its entirety:
Begin it where warm waters halt
And take it in the canyon down,
Not far, but too far to walk.
Put in below the home of Brown.

Just thinking…

 

I started with nothing, and I still have most of it!

-dal

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

321 thoughts on “Thinking About Far…

    • It’s not obvious to me that Forrest doesn;t ride a niike. I don’t know whether to
      swoon or swoosh, while trying not to under-estimate him. Thank you for posting.

  1. Dal,

    That is the most delicious looking canyon wall I have ever seen. To my untrained eyes, I would swear it was some kind of Neapolitan Dessert. Where the heck is that place??

  2. Mw seems to still be broken/hacked/taken over by beings from another dimension (dal’s time theory applied here).
    I really agreed with dal’s time theory, there’s alot of places near my hob(near Yellowstone) that were blown up, thrown up , layered, earthquaked , generally showing a lot of geology now.
    I especially liked the pictures, very professional and lots of color In them. I hope when I go back for expedition 2020 it’s like a new place all over again. I thinks it’s going to be great either way. Inner net says there’s a rodeo this June at the North entrance, ( anyone know how to rope a buffaloe?)

  3. One possible answer for this line.

    No T Far, . . . (Farish)
    But . . . (Be you 0 . . . Removing T creates a void, so 0)
    Remove T in “Too” . . . 000
    Far(ish)
    Remove T in “To” . . . 00
    Walk.

    Far(ish) = Farish Recreation Area, Woodland, CO.

    Nice place to take a stroll, for those who can find a qualified entrant, that is.

    DOD controlled area, so public access limited.

    Idea for exploration only. Many other interpretations possible, of course.

    Regards.

  4. I’ve thought about that too, Dal. It made me look at A Walk Through Time in Colorado pretty hard. But now, I’m thinking it means a place where you can’t or shouldn’t walk, a body of water or a road tunnel for example.

    • Dal, I think this is the hardest line in the poem for me. To me it is the difference of walking from WWWH to the chest, or driving part of the way. I think most assume you drive because it is “too far to walk”, but I think that means more than the obvious. The fact that he wrote a book called “too far to walk” seems to imply this phase means more than the obvious.

      Did you ever consider another meaning for “walk”? In the dictionary, I saw one definition as “to come or go easily or readily” So the sentence would change to “to far to come or go easily” To me that could mean you walk from WWWH to the chest which drastically changes the scale of the path to the chest.

      Someone once asked forrest in an interview 6/20/2014, did you take the same path to the chest as the clues described and he said “there is no other way in my opinion” This always bothers me. If you drive from WWWH to some other part of the path to the chest, FF wouldn’t have to go to WWWH to hide the chest since he knew where he was going. If there really is no other way to the chest, then I think this implies that WWWH is where he parked his car and you walk the whole way. This obviously sounds wrong given the “too far to walk”, but if walk means the alternate definition as I stated above, it could make sense. Just a thought.

      • Jason:
        I’ve been stewing over the “…no other way…” quote, mentioned above, for some time now. For nine years I could not apply that thought to any solution. Then, this spring, while considering some other issue a possible answer slapped me in the face. After I have a chance to explore that route physically in a few weeks I’ll write about it as I let everyone waggle their finger at me about my newest harebrained ideas.

        • Dal – I’m interested to hear more about what you came up with after you have had a chance to test it out. I will try not to waggle my finger at your harebrained ideas, lest you waggle yours at mine!

        • Hey Dal,
          Hope you have a bag of frozen peas in ice box to help with your face, don’t ya just love those AH-HA moments of Eureka!

          I’m curious, which State will you be searching in, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico or Delirium?

          If you’ll be searching in the State of Delirium could you kindly please pick me up on your way into the Rockie Mountains, I’ll be waiting at the Rapture Depot………. Thanks.

          Pauley T

      • Jason – Here is the full quote:

        “I have a question for Mr. Fenn:
        When you hid your treasures, did you take the same path that is described in the poem, or were you able to skip some of the steps because of your familiarity with the area?
        Thank you Curtis

        The clues should be followed in order Curtis. There is no other way to my knowlege.f”

        The questioner uses the wording “take the same path”, but Forrest chose to use the word “followed” in his response. I feel that there is still some ambiguity in Forrest’s response as to whether or not physically travelling to WWWH and traveling from there is a requirement.

        • Blex, That is a really good point. I didn’t consider the different wording. Maybe if Fenn said he took a shorter route, it would have been too much of a clue. It might have been Fenn basically avoided the question with non-answer by just re-stating the purpose of the 9 clues in the poem. Worth considering

          • Jason – Yeah, I’m thinking that Forrest was more focused on emphasizing the idea that there are no shortcuts in solving the poem in the answer that he gave to that question. In the manner that question was asked, it could have been interpreted that the asker may have been poking around for the sign of a shortcut.

        • Blex,

          The same -difference to; “take the same path” and “follow” are both about one thing… *Clues in the poem*.
          How many clues are in the poem? Nine.

          Fenn also stated he followed the clues *in his poem* when he hid the chest.
          Also mentioned was; when hiding the chest he took the most direct path…. from his vehicle.

          I don’t see ambiguity for any of these and other comments, personally.

          The problem is and has been; why all are stumped at clues 3 & 4?
          This brings up the idea of the thread… Can NF,BTFTW mean something other than a physical movement by a searcher?
          Can a period of time, or a time period, be involved?

          However, the kicker for me is about how …an 80 yr old is not going up and down and up a canyon…

          For anyone to “follow” the “clues in the poem” and told he made two trips, as well as, tell us we should be able to walk several hours to our solves twice… Indicates to me that the clues are walkable from start to finish, twice… seeing there is no other way to do it…even for Fenn.

          Clues in the poem equals (9) nine of them.
          The question is; how are those 9 clues “followed”?

          Physically for each individual clues.. or..
          by understanding how certain clue(s) work in a manner other than stomping to something?

          Seems straight forward to me.

          • Has anyone ever tinkered with the idea that maybe the I, Me, Mines in the poem aren’t referring to Forrest? Maybe it’s written from the point of view of Brown. I can’t get over how much the 2nd stanza sounds like the birth process of someone with the last name Brown. Another thing that makes me think this is the “trove” line. If you see trove as just a collection of objects, it kind of implys that all the clues have some sort of relation to one another. So maybe the solution to each clue has the name Brown in it. So maybe the “title” from the last line is Brown.

          • Seeker – If it was straightforward, I don’t think we’d be having this discussion! But point taken; following the clues does not necessarily stomping your way from clue #1 to clue #9. I know there are a lot of ideas of how to follow the clues with sightlines, crossing vectors to make an X on map, thinking about time or historical paths, etc. IMO, they’re all valid with respect to Forrest’s answer to that question.

            I’ve said before that the interpretation that I prefer is the idea that WWWH and the canyon down need not be traveled to, but rather act as a benchmark on a map to zero in on a starting point. Physical stomping starts at where one puts in below the home of Brown (parks their vehicle presumably) and stomps from there to the hidey spot. That’s just one idea and I’ve got no way to substantiate it over anyone else’s interpretation. It just feels “right” to me.

          • Blex – After I ‘virtually’ do the ‘put in below the home of Brown’ thing, with my finger, following the clues to my giant Brown trout landform, across from Barns Hole #1, …

            I believe this stanza is describing how my finger needs to do the walking, ‘from there’:

            “From there it’s no place for the meek,
            The end is ever drawing nigh.
            There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
            Just heavy loads and water high.”

            Because, I think that whole stanza is describing the nature of my ‘IT’ in the Poem: the ‘Madison River’. And Forrest is saying ‘don’t walk this part’, and he is even calling out the hazards. Several guides have said the Beaver Meadow, for example, on the way to Baker’S Hole, has dangerous holes in the river bed throughout that stretch. I think ‘no place for the meek’ fits that ‘stay out’ directive nicely.

            All just the way I see ‘IT’…

          • Lisa-
            I’ve walked that stretch of the Madison and I did not find any “holes” in the river..however, the Beaver Meadow itself is like an obstacle course of murky, leech infested ponds and swarming insects. I did step into a patch of quicksand on the Madison around the Beaver Meadows that had me concerned for about ten minutes…but no holes…maybe I just missed them…

          • Lisa – I agree that of the stanzas in the poem, the one you quoted (#3) has some of the widest range of possibilities for interpretation: Do you go towards or away from no place for the meek? Do you follow the creek or avoid it? Forrest’s ATF comments about staying safe and not straying into dangerous territory are very closely linked with these lines (as well as the rest of the poem), IMO.

          • Dal and Blex – Thanks for your comments. And that BOTG report, Dal. You would have had to have been BITW, like Forrest was, wearing waders. I wrote that those dangerous holes were in the ‘river bed’. Were you walking in waders, Dal?

            I truly believe the Poem is Forrest following his exact route, in the preface of TFTW, ending at Baker’S Hole.

          • I was not wearing waders. I was walking the Madison…not fishing…
            Wearing jeans and hiking boots and carrying a camera and ice axe…

          • Dal: do you still have your marbled-stone coyote with red-stone ice axe strapped on?

        • Blex – In comment to your last paragraph. I agree. Forrest never really answers the question and his response is no different than his poem….multiple meanings depending on how you see it.

          Curtis’s question is obviously asking if there is more than one “physical route” to get to the chest. But that is not the answer he receives.

          IMO, by Forrest answering, ” The clues should be followed in order Curtis. There is no other way to my knowlege” He avoids the question and is only telling us that “we” need to follow the clues in order…period. That this is the only way we are going to “solve” the poem. “There is no other way to my knowlege” IMO, means how to solve….not that there is no other way “physicaly” to get there. But as always…I could be wrong.

          But this is another great example of how all the ATFs can throw you off course. That is why I simply try and focus on the poem and TTOTC. I only go back to the ATFs as “taken lightly” confirmation that I “may” be on the right track.

          • Geysergirl – Agreed! I think that the ATF comments are helpful (except when they’re not), but if your solve doesn’t lock in reasonably well to the poem first and foremost, you may have drifted off course.

            I think Forrest’s answer that there’s “no other way” doesn’t mean it’s impossible to get to the hidey spot from another route that doesn’t follow the poem at all; I think the emphasis is that in order to solve the poem, it requires a certain amount of “reading the land” with respect to the very pragmatic travel constraints of an 80-year-old man arriving by sedan, parking, and then walking further somewhere.

        • Blex … the word “followed” does not necessarily mean “physically followed”. He could have meant that he “followed” the clues in his mind from WWWH.

          And so it is possible that some of those clues can be skipped … when physically traversing the general area.

          Ken (in Texas)

          • Hi Ken in Texas
            I couldn’t have described it better than that.Think about
            all the clues get in the car and drive to the parking lot
            walk less than half a mile get TC.Thats the way I been
            looking at it for the last year Thank you Clint

        • Blex, Just pointing out that Forrest didn’t answer the question. He’s being a politician. Like I think Forrest really doesn’t want to give you that info, but he will say that you have to follow the clues in order, which does not mean that he walked in the order of the clues’ locations on his way to hide the chest. He might have, but he doesn’t want us to know that one way or the other.

          I

          • Alienboy – Agreed! I think if Forrest answered that question too directly, it would have given away too much information.

  5. I dont believe it is a distance at all. It’s impossible to place a a number or unit of distance to that line. So how can it be a distance? I believe it describes a point on the map.

    • Not far, but Too far to walk = Not 4, but 242 walk

      So remove the 4, now I am left with 22 or 2?2……(Doesn’t ff refer to the numbers 22 a lot.)
      So to far is too far to walk….This means we need to drive = is a highway………Highway 212 leaving Yellowstone along the Beartooth Highway.

      My solve was this:
      WWWH = Yellowstone
      Canyon down = Yellowstone Canyon
      Too far to walk = highway 22 now known as Highway 212
      Home of Brown = where the buffalo ranch once stood in Yellowstone park

      This is just my opinion

      • New way,

        This, imo, is exactly why names of places isn’t ideal for the solve. A person need to change HY 22 to HY 212. As well as using sound alike words to produce numbers.

        But for the life of me I don’t know how FAR sounds like FOUR… But whatever.
        That’s like saying breed sounds like bead, or bead sounds like three….

        This could change many times in the future, even change route number to (for ex.) 333.

        Just an observation…

  6. I’m with you on this one, Dal. It’s been part of my working theory for a couple years now. I couple it with a circular theory that plays out in 3-D, adding in that 4th dimension of time. Now, if I could just figure out what the heck HOB means.

    • Time is approximately the seven dimension, 4th is a physical feelable and easily visualizable dimension, 5th and 6th, not so much….with 8 through somewhere around 11th being what nightmares/dreams are made of, depending on the dose of the drug.

      • I will poke this hornets nest. Wheres my poking stick? So far, as in time but also in the sense of distance. Spatially distant points can be unified in time or vice versa. By that I mean that two times in history can be connected by a singular point in space. This is not only on topic but is relevant to my solution to the clues. I feel that this is the solution to the chase and it is the thing many people are not considering in their own solves. Firstly Forrest found the location of the treasure at some point in history. Secondly at least two separate parties of searchers have been within 200 feet of the treasure, not the clues, not the starting point, the actual treasure. So it is a place that people have been, and recently. So here is the kicker, people went to the correct location to solve the clues but were unable to do so, why? I say the problem is twofold, one the searchers were unaware of the requisite solutions to clues 3 to 9, and two the searchers didn’t understand the significance of the location as it pertains to the hider. The day of the action, or at the very least the time of year may play a key role in the correct execution of the finding of the treasure. As Forrest has repeatedly told us. So how do multiple dimensions support this sort of a solution? Time, space, direction, history, geography and a view of the mountains all point you unmistakably to a certain spot.

        • Blaze one,

          You say searchers been 200′ near the TC but not clues or starting point.

          Fenn has implied searchers figured the first couple of clues and unfortunately walked past the TC.
          Also has said searcher solved the first to clues and went by the remaining seven clues.

          Without being too picky on distances… These folks were in search mode telling Fenn their search process.
          I’m not sure how you can conclude none of them didn’t get within the 500′ or 200′ marker.

          Personally, I don’t see a big difference between 500′ and 200′ near the TC… Searchers had to have clues correct to get them started in a location to be able to get that close.

          • Seeker,
            What I was trying to say is similar to what I think you are saying. Not so much that they didn’t get any closer than that, but that being that close shows the location of Indulgence was searched by searchers on at least two occasions. One way to see this is the wrong turn explanation, shoulda taken that left at Albuquerque. Another way to look at is that while at the location of the first two clues something done incorrectly caused them to move farther not closer to the prize. A solve with 9 locations may be the reason the folks that have been the closest kept going and went too far. Alternatively, perhaps they were unprepared for the action needed at the location. Look quickly down your quest to cease. In other words being at the correct location in space may not be enough. Time, or timing, “Thyme” could be the missing ingredient. Searchers are trying to find a key but not paying enough attention to the lock. Imo

      • Time is aprox. the 7th? where does that come from? You can locate things in space time with 4 variables, x y z and t )the space time coordinates). Time is the fourth variable (dimension) in many of those equations . In a geometrical sense, time is not a physical dimension. Each geometric dimension is orthogonal to all other geometric dimensions, as illustrated by the tesseract or klein bottle, which are simply 4 dimensional geometric objects modeled in 3 dimensions (like a cube can be drawn in 2 dimensions on a piece of paper).

        mBG

        • meBigGuy: “where does that come from? You can locate things in space time with 4 variables”

          that is sort of like asking two people which way “up” is… on different sides of a planet, then believing one over the other because one labeled it as such. A simple illustration of the “belief” system getting quickly overruled by reality. one would come unglued from the “from” if trying to find their way back using only that belief system. which also happens to potentially illuminate the 4th given a few good illustrations of the matter.

          labeling dimensions only provides labels, no closer to context.

          • This is super simple. Time is “called” the 4th dimension simply because it is the 4th variable in space time mathematics. It has no bearing on reality. It is a convenient way to refer to it in the modeling language we call mathematics. Next, there is no relationship between time and the purely geometric dimensions. The geometric dimensions are also precisely defined. There is no “belief system” involved in those two simple concepts unless you choose to not believe in mathematics as a method for modeling physical reality. (BTW, I’m not saying mathematics can model everything, especially not subjective experience)

            Now, if you want to develop your own (subjective) belief system with respect to something you have decided to call “dimensions” and their definitions, that’s fine. Just realize that the mathematical space-time and geometric definitions are common, simple and solid (like the dictionary definitions of words).

            If you want to expound on precisely why time is “approximately the 7th dimension” in your non mathematical belief system, I’m all ears (eyes?).

            Hopefully Dal will let this stay, since it doesn’t take much space. You (or anyone) can email me through my link if you desire.

            mBG

  7. I think you really have to think about where Forrest has added commas, periods, etc… IMO if I remove some of these and run the sentences shorter or longer – he is saying ‘Not far, but too far to walk put in . So now I am looking for the walk that was put in ( below the home of Brown ) now we also know Forrest’s talks about how a walk was put in that leads to his bathing spot and the walk wasn’t there when he bathed there as a teenager.

  8. Hey Dal,
    i can’t believe people are getting so complicated that they are losing the overall picture. “not far…” to me means just that – Forrest did not want to walk very far with his chest. ” …too far to walk” – sound familiar? I think he was already planning a second book title. In analyzing his TFTW book, I think I have come across a very important unrevealed clue and it is a number!

  9. IMO the number two is a very key number in the search for the spot. In that line Mr. Fenn uses two of the three ways to spell and use the word too/to/two. It’s up to the Searcher to figure out the other use which is,two. I believe that when you take the “CANYON” down from WWWH,you don’t go far. Too far to two paths would mean that you have gone too far. If you have come to a path that “Y”s,you have gone to far. However,you would have come within 500 feet of the spot.
    R.T.

    • Boatman – That works for my Cable Car Run turnout put in, below my huge Brown trout on the Madison River, across from Barns Hole #1. Which has a y-shaped road leading into it. The other fork leads to Barns Hole Number ‘Two’.

      Cable Car Run fits the 500 ft. distance, upriver on the Madison, from Barns Hole #1.

      Great post!!! Thank you!!!

  10. I think “too far to walk” means to get in a paddle boat or push a bike like he did Concy.

    Two trips from car
    1 could be to put a boat in a river or lake ( or unload a bike)
    2 to get treasure and lunch/water to put into boat or on bike.

    But a boat is my bet, currently.

    But good thinking Dal. It’s as good as any other options for sure. Thanks for keeping interest in the hunt.

    • Finder: “How far to walk in an hour”

      well an “hour” is an exact number, but has no basis in any context, let alone the poem, book, or ATF comments?

  11. I still did not figure out “Begin it where warm waters halt”. Once, if ever, I get that solved then I’ll move on to the second clue.
    There are no shortcuts he said…
    This poem is frustrating me more than living under covid-19 threat. And that is an understatement.
    I gave up the search many times but I cannot stop coming back to it, like with an impossible love.

  12. I came up with three ways, but four explanation for this. Ww2wh. I thinks it has more than one meaning but as long as it goes to the right spot, it should be right. Ok maybe 5 explanation if parachute is involved, 6 with a helicopter.

  13. I had long been frustrated by that line.
    Too far from what, where, who, why? And how so?
    I finally settled on not far from WWWH.
    And that fits into the small recess of my mind.
    How did he get there? I’m guessing he was still in his car.
    All the way to a canyon down below the HOB. Got it.

    • @ Michael Hendrickson, Agreed! Wish we could do a searcher survey on what most feel/think the distance from WWWH is to below HOB. I’d vote for less than 30 miles. IMO!

  14. Dal,

    Time is tricky to look at.
    A mirror refects an image of the past, for example.
    Your geological time is another great example. Yet as you implied, most know it but don’t really think about it.
    I personally think what is throwing of most is the idea of traveling to something “too far to walk” being of a movement OR back in time.. My simple explanation is… Don’t walk, or better, don’t leave. (And it seems this is where all have “left the poem”)

    Now “time” takes on a new avenue of approach.
    Meaning, we need to wait for something to happen before moving. The kicker here is; when something does happen.. our movement needs to be quick / quickly. This idea give a small window of time to COMPLETE the solve..

    IF future time could be involved, the question is, what is it about future time that will stay consistent and only be affected by the movement of land over many decades?
    Long before the clock and calendar, the method was the rise and setting of the sun and its angles, and usable over long time periods. LOL… This is another thing we all know but rarely think about.

    Might the idea of “looking down the road a 100, a 1000, even 10,000 years” be of future time?

    • Hello Seeker. You mentioned, ‘Might the idea of “looking down the road a 100, a 1000, even 10,000 years” be of future time?’ When one travels through Shoshone Canyon, one does exactly that. This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

          • Thanks, PD,
            It’s the basic idea Dal presents.
            Those time lines in the video where about past time or geographical history.
            Even if we read / understand them from past to present… there’s no future timeline to consider /observe. mainly because it takes long periods of time to happen.

            My comment is solely about a solve that relies on the possibility a searcher needs to wait for something to happen [to complete the poem] vs. something that already took place.

            Part of this idea is about how the poem jumps from past tense; If you’ve been wise and found the blaze… to … present tense of; Look quickly down.
            Why the change-?- when stanza 2 and 3 are in present tense?
            Why not write it as *find the blaze*?
            Why is there a present and past *time* difference? { time meaning we need to do something quickly, scant [ limited in time ], and still gaze [ study ] something}.

            Don’t mind me… I’m just rambling and rumbling while thinking and analyzing about what it is I need to plan and observe [ watch (something) carefully and attentively.]

          • Seeker – This is my ‘marvel gaze’ of my interpretive sign blaze at Baker’S Hole:

            https://earth.app.goo.gl/zZeaig

            Courtesy of Captain Marvel, who just saved the World. Again. And she’s a woman.

            Please note: you can see my blaze from Google Earth. Well, I can. And Dal probably can.

          • Lisa,

            The image I got of the Madison River has three islands, a few curious squares and rectangles [ possibly cement slaps ] and something circular with a dark spot in the center.
            LOL, I need a bit more info… What is your blaze?
            And just out of curiously… how would one know the distance from the blaze to the chest, would be obvious?
            I get it… it’s a satellite image, but everything I see seems very large. Possibly 100 feet across or more.

          • Seeker – Ok. I dropped a pin on my blaze, the interpretive sign, which has a shadow:

            https://earth.app.goo.gl/qLCEAV

            A pretty blatant clue in the artist’s depiction of the scene before the viewer told me exactly where to look for the bronze chest, and the best route to follow across the Madison River to get there. And that expanse of river is 100′ wide, per a note on the campground map. So, if ‘people’ are standing at that sign, they are about 200′ from the treasure. And I’ll bet Forrest got more than one email from a searcher with that sign in it. I wonder if they would faint, if they knew how close they were??

            Big Smile! 🙂

          • Hello Seeker. Perhaps I may be a bit odd in the thinking of, “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze” as possibly still being present tense to a sense saying “If you’ve found the correct blaze after following the clues, continue by looking quickly down.” If we’re out in the field/woods, etc. searching, we’re not past tense. This is how I see that part of the poem.

          • Stoneroller, I always thought that begin was found as in discovered, but I never found the tc, so will start from the beginning and hopefully find the end.

    • Seeker – Time is like a river…time is circular…Forrest threw *Time” in the ‘circular file’…

      Just re-watched “A River Runs Through It” today. Gonna post the last scene quote for Dal…

      • Dal – We have ‘canyon’ and ‘cut by the world’s great flood’ and ‘basement of time’ and ‘waters’ here:

        “Like many fly fishermen in Western Montana where the summer days are almost Arctic in length, I often do not start fishing until the cool of the evening. Then in the Arctic half-light of the canyon, all existence fades to a being of my soul and memories and the sounds of the Big Blackfoot River and a four-count rhythm and the hope that a fish will rise.
        Eventually, all things merge into one, and a river runs through it. The river was cut by the world’s great flood and runs over rocks from the basement of time. On some of those rocks are timeless raindrops. Under the rocks are the words, and some of the words are theirs.
        I am haunted by waters.” – From “A River Runs Through It”, final scene.

  15. What is a memoir besides a recounting of the days? Maybe a better question – how far should you go a day? Each day we get one foot closer to the treasure chest.

    There are seven days in a week but sometimes we get our days mixed up, and it feels like Sunday is a Tuesday. I’m counting the days to solve the puzzle. It took me a number of days to figure out the distance from the place where warm waters halt to the put in below the home of Brown.

    Do these thoughts ring a bell for anyone?

    • Hi Darvcus
      I think we are on the same page.Ya with every passing
      second we are getting that much closer to the well bug,
      the end is ever drawing nigh. Clint

  16. A place in time stamped in ones memory. You can go back to it physically, but what made it special was the moment in TIME that you Experienced it in. The loved ones that surround you are what make those times so meaningful. Like returning to a childhood home. You can go there, but it’s too far to walk.

  17. Interesting thought, Dal. It reminds me of Shoshone Canyon with the markers along the side of the road stating dates of Precambrian, etc. rocks.

  18. There was a time I considered “Not far, but too far too walk” to possibly mean something to do with the handicapped. Something could be not far, but to some, too far to walk.

  19. I agree about the first clue, if we are ever solid enough on the first clue because it makes the most sense and probably one that makes one slap oneself on the head like it was so simple, why didn’t we think of it before? I had one such moment in the only solve I have so far, but the second clue has no cayon, that I know of nearby. But there are canyons in the same state, so maybe being in the same state, not too far but too far to walk. But without doing much geological and geographical research the second solve is not solid.

    The second picture Dal, gave me a clue in another direction, possibly related to a later clue. I looked up places like the painted desert in Az. and painted mountains, canyons etc. Some really spectacular multi colored formations around the world. Especially painted mountains in China and Peru. Photographed in certain ways they look candy colored – reminds me of Burl Ives song Candy Mountain.

    Thanks for the spark in imagination Dal.

  20. I asked my 11 year old what he thought about NFBTFTW. He says it would be too far to walk *around* a river (in other words, cross to the other side without getting wet). To cross directly, you would need to wade, not walk…and it would be…not far…

  21. Another thing I’d like to mention is that just because Forrest Fenn did not mention any adventures in Colorado doesn’t necessarily follow he didn’t have any. For all we know, he could have had an adventure, or perhaps some sort of epiphany there and it’s too close to home to mention it. Or it could simply be the one state he did not mention is the one state where the treasure is hidden. We won’t know for sure till someone finds out and even then most may never know. But I will agree that first impressions tend to stand out the most, so more than likely Fenn’s childhood impression for this place may be the most likely. So, of course the Yellowstone area is the most likely. But why bother including Colorado, if not Colorado, he could have left it out and included another state. Of course these four states most closely aligned with that part of the continental divide – there is continuity there, right? It could also be the poem-clue-map includes all four states for the reason that’s how the clues map the whole direction to the treasure.

    • I like Colorado too, Francis. There’s a lot of history of gold in that state. It’s interesting to read about.

      • Also, why wouldn’t Forrest have explored Mesa Verde, the most spectacular complex of cliff dwellings? And Colorado has some of the most spectacular scenery as shown in the original movie True Grit and there is an ancient site near that remote majestic chimney Rock Mountain as seen in the movie, which is near an Anasazi dwelling, waterfall, river, canyon. All the geographical features that may be indicated in the poem.

  22. Awesome thinking there Dal!!
    I believe you were channeling the force on this idea. “I made the kessul run in 12 parsecs.”

    • And you might be right, too. Whether or not it’s a rock from space or just uncovered earth, if it truly is a clue, I think it’s still likely to be a good distance. The most likely place imo would be a road seldom traveled or tended to. It might fit the bill with the area being old. Also would mean fewer people notice. Kermit would be looking south-west when he should be looking up.

      • Well, first things first. Without SW I cannot see how Kermit could look up. He must travel the distance in order for Gutsenburg to make the next move.

        All that sounds a bit negative, but a little later we can take that leap of faith in a more positive position.

        • Thanks for the push, but my only journey is not over. It won’t matter if George had its move or not. If it doesn’t have the tc then it’s no “closer” than the rest. There’s an “X” in the middle of the crow’s eye, and all that’s there is sand. It’s all the same, and that is the loss of time. Someone could draw me a character of needles from a safe distance, but everyone would tell you they see something a tad different. Now that outlook might seem pessimistic, but wouldn’t the worst result be time spent in the given location?

          • Upon which, we sacrifice the lamb.

            Usually it moves with time, but time is the controller and that we shall fix.

  23. A bet
    A power ballad
    A room with a view (overlooking elk ranch in Jackson)

    A Tesla Car
    A Mess (my fly line on the Madison when my back cast snagged a fur tree)
    A forgery.

    Imo

    A + B + C + D + E + F = too far to walk.

    BTW anyone know Forrest’s golf handicap? I’m guessing it’s +16? He seems like then kinda guy that would show up with all the top end equipment, but still slice and hook the heck outta the Baal.

    Hah…just playin’

  24. Dal – Your thinking has way exceeded anything I have ever come up with for that line. I have gone back and forth on just how important that line may, or may not be. As a matter of fact, after struggling with that line for a long time, I started to think because it is so ambiguous, “maybe” it isn’t even one of the 9 clues. Maybe it’s just a “step” to take you to PIBTHOB. Meaning if you are at the correct WWWHs and canyon, taking the canyon “down” will place you at the correct HOB, one that satisfies the statement of NFBTFTW without having to predetermine an “exact” distance before hand. The equation of NFBTFTW will then present itself to you as just an after fact. Does that make sense?

  25. Thanks Dal,
    Great Topic. I totally agree . For my search area time is an essential factor that’s superimposed over the physical search area. The begin it starts in childhood and ends in later-life.

  26. All,

    What is not far and what is too far too walk? Neither is a definitive distance, but to Forrest, the architect of this treasure hunt, the distance from whatever wwh to from there is too far to walk. Therefore the correct starting point may not be wwh.

    Seannm

  27. Hi Dal
    You keep shaking the bushes something is bound to come out ,maybe a hornet,bird
    buffalo or Grizz or it might just be your own horse.
    Clint

    • you really, don’t want to come across that new Asian murder bee. they look wicked, take wasp spray not sure if that would work but i sure hate the thought of that monster chasing me be wise in the bush Dal

  28. Waterfront property is the best type to own if you can and it’s not in a flood plain.

    Back in 1862 the U.S. government was literally giving it away to anybody who could work the land and make a go of settling in the west. The people who got the best 160-acre plots were the ones who got there first.

    A good spot along any bountiful river would have new neighbours staking claims on either side– close but too far to walk to the nearest ford or bridge. Better to use a canoe.

      • Muset – But, I can use a canoe to get to my hidey spot, on the S-curve, at Baker’S Hole. Part of it is outside the YNP boundary.

        Would that be?:

        “If you are brave and in the wood,..”

        Like an Indian brave, paddling a canoe?

        • Some rivers are too deep to wade across and today we have roads and bridges, so you should leave your canoe at home.

          When neighbors across a deep river, wanted to help each other raise a barn or bring in a crop or borrow a cup of sugar, they had to use a canoe to get to each other’s cabin.

          Using that concept, a search might conclude one of those neighbors name was Brown, so your hole could be in the running for that TFTW line; but I wouldn’t use it unless I could find who those neighbors were exactly.

          • Muset – That would be Fred M. Brown, Gallatin County Surveyor, who knew where ALL the neighbors lived! He drew a 1912 map, which included ‘Brown’s Camp’ on it; the current location of Baker’S Hole Campground. Fred was living there, while building roads in YNP and Gallatin County with his father.

            Can I use the TFTW line NOW?!

            Did you know that Gallatin County is shaped like a giant KEY, with the business end that would unlock a treasure chest pointing to Baker’S Hole? How did Forrest do THAT?

            Giggles.

          • Muset – I once invited Forrest and Shiloh here on Dal’s to join me for a canoe ride out to my hidey spot at Baker’S Hole. Mainly, so Forrest could say:

            Go in, Shiloh!

            Because, Shiloh means ‘peace’. And so does Fred:

            Frederick is a masculine given name meaning “peaceful ruler”. It is the English form of the German name Friedrich. Its meaning is derived from the Germanic word elements frid, or peace, and ric, meaning “ruler” or “power”.

            Whether it be Shiloh Old or Fred M. Brown in that canoe, the last line of the Poem would work:

            “Just take the chest and go in peace.”

            Get it? Got it? Good.

          • It’s good that you’re interested in the history, which was my original purpose for commenting.

            It doesn’t make sense that Brown’s Camp would ever have been associated with Fred Brown. The surveyors would have camped at a different site every day or two from Bozeman to West Yellowstone.

            Fred’s job was to record what he needed for the map, not to name places after himself. Along his progress Fred would have met the Michener family, Pete Karst, the Wilsons, the Safelys, possibly Caroline McGill, and the park rangers stationed at the foot of Speciman Creek, among others.

          • Muset – I think Fred M. Brown named Brown’s Camp after his father, the YNP road builder. Because they needed to be close, there, to get into the West Entrance of the park. Fred M. Brown built a nice homestead in Bozeman, as you probably know. Where he wasn’t, most of the time, while surveying and building all those roads in Gallatin County.

            So, did you find all those neighbor names in that same geneology link, where I found Fred M. Brown?

  29. Dal, Very good thinking. I like it. It might me true for some solves. According to my solve, however at one point it means: Not far but also far. To: Walk (to get there: walk)
    At that point at one point, something is right below you so it is not far. But it is also far because you have to travel a distance before you can get down there. So it is also far at the same time. How to get there: walk.

  30. Thanks dal,
    I guess that’s all part of the challenge, just how far. We all know how far Catcher flew on time. And we all know how times fly by. But if you ask my man Jerry how the time flies, all you’ll get is a love song. He even has a notable flip side to ponder for the time being. So in the mean time I’ll leave you with this…
    https://youtu.be/xS_wSl5oe-0

  31. “Too far to walk” is what ever you want it to be, but for Forrest it’s about 10 miles. Believe him or not. I choose to believe him. About 10 miles is the only distant that can be applied to the poem. Where else has he mentioned a distance of not far ,but too far to walk? Believe him when he says, ‘ about 10 miles now, it’s too far to walk.

    • ManOwar,

      At one time 10 miles was not far for fenn, right?
      The question is… IF a *distance* is actually needed… when did 10 miles become too far?
      Doesn’t that question need an answer?

      Secondly;
      If the second book never came out…
      How would we know of this magical, not walk-able, distances?
      Why wasn’t it in the first book, especially when you say; *Believe him when he says, ‘ about 10 miles now, it’s too far to walk.* LOL that’s a big clue to just throw on the back burner for over 3 years, right? Sucks for the early on searcher who would have no possible knowledge of this.

      He knew of this place [ from what he said ] in / or before 1988. Yet, he has said he could go right to the chest at age 84, 85 and other comments at different ages… was age 80 too far? How would we know, seeing at the time of the second book he states “now” its too far.

      The real question is, and part of the topic of this thread, does the line in the poem have anything to do with a physical distance to travel at all?
      If not… it won’t matter what distance anyone picks.

      I personally have a hard time believing fenn would hold on to that critical piece of information from TTOTC, IF it is an answer for part of the poem.

      • Seeker, IMO……
        He didn’t put it in his first book because he didn’t want to give out such an easy clue. He gave it out by mistake in the second book and even said so admitting he overlook the clue in the book, and It’s not because they {the map co.) left out Canada on the map (that’s IMHO). And as for knowing this magical not walk-able distant, you would be able to determine it without the second book by finding WWWH and going down in the canyon and finding THOB and the put in place.

        Example:
        You find a Geiser in or near a canyon, go down that canyon until you find Famous Brown’s home a little farther you find a dry creek leading up to HL and WH. The distance between WWWH and BTHOB at this point doesn’t matter because you have followed the clues up to this point and you would have confidence in your progress, but if you knew it should be about 10 miles and it was then you would have tremendous confidence and confirmation that you were on the right trail.

        In other words you don’t need the exact distance to follow the clues, but having that knowledge of the correct distance gives you a big leg up, don’t you think? By the way, You don’t walk that distance, you would either drive or boat that distance. That’s what you do when it’s too far to walk.

        • MarOwar, “He didn’t put it in his first book because he didn’t want to give out such an easy clue. He gave it out by mistake in the second book and even said so admitting he overlook the clue in the book”

          This is wrong on several levels, he didn’t put it in his first book, because it isn’t a clue (see below), saying ff made a mistake on the preface is incorrect by default, as he told everyone what the mistake was… the map maker company left off Canada…

          so not only was this the “clue”, and not only was it the “mistaken” clue, it is the ONLY clue… as he pointed out that this was the clue in the book, specifically saying the clue was not in the preface… by saying it was in the book rather than the preface.

          I a search of Tarry scant link below for “Canada” and or “preface” will make that quite clear… and in an abundantly crystal way.

          Although clear to us searchers is more of a guideline than a rule.

          Also the Preface was sent out for comments to more than one person… (just that fact of giving people a “clue” before the rest of “searchers” makes it null and void right there) and it was edited several times… including the “distance”…. I think believing ff just decided to drop in a “here is answer 1b)” on purpose is about as likely as santa dropping another.

          • I agree with Writis that the 10-mile mention in the preface of TFTW is not the unintended clue. But it certainly is *not* the case that leaving Canada off the map was the unintended clue that Forrest was referring to.

            That Canada was missing was noticed by everyone almost the instant the book came out. Yet many months later (9/26/2013) on Dorothy Massey’s “Collected Words” radio show, Forrest had the following to say in response to Dorothy’s closing remarks about the inclusion of Benchmark Maps fold-out map:

            FF: “Well, there’s a clue in the book that I didn’t know was going to be in the book.”
            Dorothy: “Oh! What’s that?”
            FF: “Well, I’m not gonna say. You’re gonna have to find it for yourself, Dorothy…”
            Dorothy: “Now, I read it twice, so I…”
            FF: “Normally, you would not find this clue, but it’s an important clue if you can find it.”
            Dorothy: “Thank you very much, I’m going right back home and reading it again.”

            Dal’s link: http://lummifilm.com/forrest/ffatcw20130926.mp3
            (at around the 48:00 mark)

            Five weeks later is the Moby Dickens Bookshop appearance. At the 38-minute mark in the video, the man to Forrest’s right says: “Coming from the online site again, I’ve been asked to ask you how many people have told you that they’ve discovered the unintended clue in Too Far to Walk, and how many were right?”
            FF: “Well, I’ve not had anybody tell me the answer to that clue. If you read my preface, it doesn’t take a genius to figure out I think what they’re talking about. But there are clues in my new book that can help a person.”

            Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RzrIu3hMec

            That quote right there kills any theory that the 10-mile remark is the unintended clue. And it also kills the theory that leaving Canada off was the unintended clue, because everyone was well aware of that. (As an aside, notice that Forrest says *CLUES* in his new book, not “a clue”)

            But over the next 2 1/2 months, some evidently figured out what the unintended clue is. In Dal’s Nine Clues Part 25, in response to remarks about there being a clue in the Preface of TFTW (i.e. the 10-mile comment), Forrest posted:
            “I said in an interview that there was a clue in the book, not the preface, that I didn’t realize was there until after the book was printed. Some have discovered it already.”

            Link: https://dalneitzel.com/2013/12/28/the-nine-clues-2/#comment-30951

            Finally, at some point Dal posted comments dismissing the idea that it was Canada missing, writing that Forrest was well aware that Canada wasn’t on the map long before the book went to the printers. I believe Dal said something to the effect that there were multiple iterations of map versions going back and forth between Forrest and Benchmark Maps, and none of them had Canada. (Dal: please correct me if my memory is in error on this point.)

          • zap-
            That’s the same as my memory of that event as well as what I wrote about it…and I still think that is true…

          • Hi Zap, and Dal,

            imo this is where people finally started realizing that Canada was left off: 11/2/2013, apparently before this date no one mentioned it to him… (also apparently there are no other clues, but there are hints now mentioned) it also appears that it was a surprise to ff, that canada was not included?

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RzrIu3hMec&list=PLg2bCqbxRU9VRTmYsKwrL8q08qvwLSMnk&index=10

            after this video is when people started mentioning it, it appears, because he actually said what the clue is: (that is how I read it anyway) This is the time when people realized that canada was not in play:

            person:
            Ok, this will be the last one. Other than the one you mentioned, are there any other hints in Too Far To Walk that would help solve the nine clues?

            ff:
            Well there’s a major clue in the book, but I don’t think it will help you find the treasure chest. I’ll tell you what the clue is. In the back of my book, there’s a map. And I’ve said that the treasure chest is hidden in the Rocky Mountains. Here’s a treasure chest (I think he meant “map”) of the Rocky Mountains. If you knew where the treasure chest is hidden, you could find it on this map. But the map stops at Canada. The Rocky’s keep going up there, but I said it’s in the Rocky Mountains, which would include Canada. When this book was printed, I didn’t realize that Benchmark Maps, who made this map, stopped at the Canadian border, so that’s a clue, but I don’t think – it’s not going to help you much.

            Person:
            But that’s not THE clue. (notice emphasis)

            ff:
            What did she say?

            Person:
            She said, “That’s not THE clue.”

            ff:
            There are no clues in this book, but there are some hints. etc……

        • ManOwar,

          Writis explained most of my thoughts do I won’t go over those…

          My question is… If hoB (which most think is clue 4) and this clue can be found on a map (no matter how one came across it) it would seem we don’t need any prior deciphered clues.
          I just can’t comprehend that idea when we are told we need to follow all the clues… And without WWsH we might as well stay home.

          So what does that say for the idea that hoB can actually be correctly solved looking at a map or GE… Or any later clue with a physical reference?

          They might be on a map… But can we truly know of them from correctly those tools?

          • Writis & Seeker,

            I know that Forrest said that Canada being left off the map was the clue. IMO that was just a deflection from his real clue of 10 miles was TFTW. He never said that the clue wasn’t in the preface. He said he overlooked a clue in the BOOK, gee whiz, the preface is in the book too. In your reasoning the map isn’t in the book also. How does that make any sense? Believe what you want, I don’t think Canada was the clue. Canada was never a real consideration for the hidey spot for Indulgence.

            IMO, after Fenn realized he might have given the distance for the TFTW clue hen may even told the Map company to leave out Canada on the map to cover for his overlooking the TFTW clue.

            He then comes out and says The clue he overlooked was the Canada being left out on the map. Deflection at it’s best.

            Seeker, HOB can be found on a map only if you first find WWWH, that’s the first clue w/o the 1st clue go home a play canasta. If you do find WWWH then the HOB is about 10 miles from WWWH. IMHO.. that’s what makes TFTW a clue or part of a clue, as in ATIITCD,NFBTFTW.
            The idea is that you can find many of the clues on a map, but, and the big but is you must first find WWWH on the map. From there follow the rest of the clues in order.

            Yes, follow all clues in order, consecutive, contiguous and do them precisely. Don’t complicate by over thinking, and you can truly know of them correctly using those tools.

      • Seeker, Sorry I overlooked this question.. IMO, 10 miles became too far to walk when he hid Indulgence, at about 79 or 80 yrs old, remember? Sure he could walk 10 miles and longer when he was younger. So, that question has been answered.

        When he hid the chest he said he only walked a few miles in one afternoon. IMO that’s is the only time he walked the rest he drove from his house to wwwh and then drove the canyon down to HOB then turned up the road next to a dry creek until heavy loads and water high, parked his car in the parking space and then went to hide his treasure.

    • ManOwar, In my solve that should be ‘about 10’, ‘miles now’, it’s ‘too far to walk’. It ends up something like this: _ __ it’s _____ ____. Major hint.

      This is of course just according to my solve. Good luck.

  32. It’s A – Forrest by his own admission did it in one day When he was 80 years old. He drove a car because it was too far to walk. Or B – he crossed a river in a raft because you can’t walk around a river in the place where he hid the treasure. I don’t think
    It’s a trick question?

    • For some reason crossing a river never came to my mind in any indication of the poem or of anything FF stated. If he walked from his truck with two heavy loads on foot, it doesn’t sound likely he would also have a raft or canoe to cross a river. Also are there any arroyos in any of those four states. An arroyo could be a river you don’t need to paddle up.

      • In my solve you cross a river. I agree that Fenn never stated so anywhere, but it is stated so in some of the hints in the books in my solve. But you don’t have to cross it in a raft in my solve, you can take a bridge or another way. But remember this: The river is not between clues 1 and 9. To get to WWWH you cross a river. Once you get to WWWH you can walk the rest of the way if you like but you won’t. You will continue on your conveyance for a short distance and then you will go the rest of the way on foot.

        Not far from WWWH, but too far. From WWWH you are close to but above something you need, but to get there you can’t just go down to it. You can, but you won’t. The path to that spot that you will take is somewhat far by comparison. So it is both not far an far at the same time. It’s ‘not far but too far’, with ‘too’ meaning also. Not far but also far to walk. On foot you’d say it was far. In a car, not really.

        In another solve, he is not far away from you at that point, but he is now too far for you to walk to now because he is dead and in heaven. And that is too far to walk to. The only way to get there is to die first. So again he is not far (grave) but also too far to walk to at the same time.

        All of this is according to my solve of course. I could be wrong, but I’m not.

  33. I liked your post, Dal. Always good to hear from you. I wanted to respond to 3 of your points in particular:

    1. You said it would be impossible to walk too far through time. But I say we can and do walk though time. As Eric Sloane pointed out, “Time actually stands still; it is we who do the passing” (The Cracker Barrel, p. 21).

    2. I liked your comment that you started with nothing and still have much of it. You forget, however, all the wonderful memories you have made along the way. This is all any of us can really count on in this case.

    3. This might help clear up the riddle of Not Far But Too Far to Walk. First, I believe you do take this line in the poem literally. Read page 8 of the Preface in Forrest’s book, Too Far to Walk. Now you tell me, how far is too far to walk for Forrest?

    To me this is so obvious, but I think searchers are relying too much on their imaginations and not enough on logic. This makes for an interesting Chase, but leaves poor Indulgence out in the cold longer than necessary. Perhaps, however, this will be remedied this summer. June is just around the corner. Good luck to you, Dal.

    • HL-
      I’ve been searching for nine years. I’ve been working the same area for close to 8 years now. My solution within that area varies each time I search there because I have not located the chest and although I think my broad premise is correct I think I need to fine tune how I search there when I don’t find the chest.

      So this is not an abandonment of my ideas about where, in the big picture, the chest is located but rather a modification of how I follow the clues in that area to get to the location of the chest.

      I don’t keep trying the same old path each time hoping I just missed something…I alter the path slightly based on a reassessment of what individual clues might mean, each time I search.

      Just trying to use my imagination more but still be realistic in my approach to solving the poem.

      • Dal, I still think you are the one that has been about 200’ from the TC and Esmarelda is the woman. LOL

        Kanafire

        • Kana-
          HA!
          I am certain you are correct…wish I knew which one of the hundred or so places I’ve searched he was referring to???

          • dal,
            Holden Caulfield in the “Catcher in the Rye” liked the Museum because Time stood still… He mentioned things behind the Glass, much like Forrest writes in many of his Scrapbooks, the secretary behind the glass, the pheasant under the glass. The Purple Heart was proudly displayed in a glass case alongside his scrubs. etc

            This is where your imagination needs to kick in and it will explain what Forrest is getting at.. Time stands still at the Museum for Holden and it reminds him of when he was a Boy… a 13 years old boy.

          • Alias Smith & Jones – Awesome observation! I think Forrest at 13 years old is a perfect place for us to put ourselves in his shoes. Maybe his wading boots? Let’s walk an ‘S-mile’ in Forrest’s shoes at Baker’S Hole.

      • Just think dal, you might have been sat in your car after a hard days marching, sweat salting your eyes, eating a sandwich and not noticed Forrest walk up to a rock 200 foot away and check the chest was still there.

        That might be how he knew you and the old girl were so close.

        🙂

  34. I think too far to walk can be much more than that to an imaginative mind.

    Put yourself in this situation: you are reading TTOTC while snacking on your favorite brand of wheaties . You stare at the doodles in the book and they begin to come alive. Then suddenly you have an a-ha moment. No, not the kind you’re thinking, I mean like that music video ‘take on me’ with Forrest giving you a hand through the barriers of possibility and possibly also cellulose. On an adventure and befour you know you’ve travelled too far to walk to a faraway land. With the treasure stashed in the island with Captain Hook. You know, the one with the green-elf looking- kid with the funky shadow that never grew up. Most shadows tend to grow up and down over time but that’s not what I meant.

    How to retrieve it, then? It depends. It’s all a big mess. FF’s wienerdog would say “don’t get bitter, get bip-er”. At least in my script he would.

  35. Dal, why don’t you use the ATF,
    A polite-like email from Kristie, who admits to be a desk person, prompts me to say that if you are walking long distances in search of the treasure, you’re walking too far?

    You asked, “How far is “not far”…and how far is “too far to walk”?”
    The ATF answers your second part of the question.

    If you are walking “long distances” you are walking “too far”.

    You can replace “too far” with “long distances”, because the ATF defines it for you. So now read the line,
    Not far, but long distances to walk.

    Of course, like f, he doesn’t tell us the answer, but he does give an idea of what you are doing.
    Also, if you think about it, why does he tell us to take a lot of water with us? Why the GPS? besides the obvious, but if you are going to be on a long hike, you would want those things. On a short distance, like a mile or so, do you really need all this water and supplies. Will it take all afternoon?
    So, it is very likely that you cannot read that line at it’s face value. It actually is the opposite.

    Remember the slip of the tongue at the Moby Dickens Bookshop interview, around the 52:00 mark,
    “Forrest, may I suggest that you tell the audience for those of us who aren’t searchers, tell the audience, who is not searching why the phrase “too far to walk” is so important?

    I didn’t say it was too far…err, important!

    The only way to get the correct answer is found in the ATF’s. One of those ATF’s is where he says he walked less then a few miles. You need to find where he references the word “few”, that is your distance. You don’t have to trust me, but, to save time, you have 4 values to choose from.
    5,14,23,113. Divide each by 4, so, 1 1/4 miles, 3 1/2 miles, 5 3/4 miles, or 28 1/4 miles, one way.

    We can take out the large number, and 1 1/4 miles is not a “long distance” to walk. So, in the end, a one way trip is either a little less then 3 1/2 miles, or a little less then 5 3/4 miles.

    I can email to you if you like, why these are the values, but it’s a long write up. It’s better to use f’s own words then just flat out guessing. Most would try to guess how far an 80 year old man could walk with the weight and up a mountain, thru a forest, but he did not answer the question if he used other modes of transport, so we just don’t know, and I for one am not going to underestimate the ol’ fool.
    You want your answer, that’s it, less then 3 1/4 miles or 5 3/4 miles. Of course, you could keep 1 1/4 miles in the back of your notes, but that distance doesn’t jive with his ATF’s.
    The reference for the word “few” is on page 15 of TToTC. How you get there is the work of roughly 4 ATF’s, and a long write up. (I wouldn’t suggest you believe me either, but it’s pretty solid, Dal).

    • I think it is a mistake to in any way associate NFBTFTW with the ATF stating he walked less than a few miles from his car. The way I see it, after NFBTFTW you PIBTHOB, and somewhere after that you “walk” (per the prevaricating/quibbling ATF) a few miles. Ithink the “few miles” and the NFBTFTW are conceptually separate.

      I think NFBTFTW is “some distance” , (not time) but we have no solid info on what that distance might be (opinions abound).
      mBG

    • I have to agree with meBigGuy. NFBTFTW IMO has nothing to do with the BOTG part. It is the travel from WWWHs to the put in below the HOB. Those first 3 lines in stanza 2 are one sentence: Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down, not far, but too far to walk. He’s simply telling us that this part of our quest is better served by not walking it. You start the BOTG part at the put in.

      • GG,

        That sounds like we can correctly guess where that put in station might be an skip the prior information / clues.

        LOL.. IF someone could know of hoB… Why bother with prior clues?
        Yet, over and over again we’re told without clue one we don’t have anything. Looking for later clues is a folly… And Fenn followed the clues “in the poem” when he hid the chest.

        Did he skip the three lines and go to the put in? Did he simply do a drive by those clues -knowing- how far to drive?
        The problem is; how did others get to the put in and near the chest without knowing how far to go… With only the first two clues solved?

        Imo. There are too many unanswered questions to simply go to a place that represent the “put in” here idea.

        • Seeker – I kinda explained that in a post earlier. I don’t believe we should skip any clues. But what if that entire sentence should be looked at as a whole thought. IF, big IF, we have the correct WWWHs and Canyon, I would think it should lead us to the correct HOB, one that satisfies the statement of NFBTFTW without having to predetermine an “exact” distance before hand. So The equation of NFBTFTW will then present itself to you as just an after fact. It is the correct WWWHs, Canyon, and HOB that matters.

          I’m not saying this is correct. It’s just another thought. Let’s face it, even if we apply time as a factor and not distance, it’s still a very ambiguous line.

          • Too far to walk goes with the ATF of Kristie. The walk will be a long distance. The reference for the word “few” does not go with this ATF, but, can prove a different ATF, walked less then a “few” miles. The outcome can be attained by using all the ATF’s and by interpreting them in reference to what it is we need “to walk”.
            That reference for the word “few” can also come into play when trying to figure out the key. “A ‘few’ are in tight focus with a word ‘that’ is key.
            The word “few” is in fact in tight focus with the word “that. As far as the walk, doesn’t matter to me where you start, just know you have a long distance to walk. f’s words.
            We forget that at WWWH, the take in part may come into play. An observation while at WWWH , onto the path. HoB could very well be at WWWH. Nothing to say it isn’t. You could be at WWWH, “take in” the view of the canyon down, pretty far to your destination, and then, still being at WWWH, you put in, start your path, at this hoB, and into the canyon. That doesn’t make it out of order, since the observation of that path has already been made. So, if you have the hoB as a clue, very well could be the third, but you are still at WWWH. Which is where your walk begins.
            WWWH could very well be a town, with a Brown’s cemetery within, and at the start of where the canyon may head South. You go to town, observe the canyon and path ahead, which begins at this cemetery. This is possible, and would make searchers think not possible by seeming to not be Contiguous. (I don’t think so, but possible if you are using observation within your solve, which I do believe you do at a certain point)
            I’m not saying that you can get an exact distance, I’m just saying that you can use ATF’s to come to a possible interpretation of accuracy. It’s not just throw an ATF here or there and viola, it’s multiple hints to arrive at a plausible answer. Believe me, it’s not concrete, but it’s better to use f’s words then just guessing. Who knows, f may have not given the answers to many things, like WWWH, but he has provided the possibility of finding the answer by solving the poem.

          • Geysergirl
            I agree completely. One needs to “know” what locations the clues refer to – to confirm one is on the correct “trail” so to speak, but one doesn’t necessarily need to go to those locations if one is able to get closer to the TC before doing the walking.
            An example of what I believe you may be saying: One can look at a map someone else has made on Google maps that shows how to get to a destination by going from what their beginning point was – point “A” to point “C” – maybe as the crow flies. One may not reasonably be able to walk that full distance from “A” to “C”, but by driving as much of the way as they can – even if indirect – they can start walking much closer to the point “C” (what one could call a point “B” – a put in perhaps -), and walk the rest of the way to “C” instead of having to walk the full way, as they “know” the prior reference points (clues) as to where point “A” is and where point “C” will be found. {Sorry… wordy and maybe not the best explanation} All IMOO

          • HotL – I think we are saying the basically the same thing in a different way. I think it’s safe to say we have to get to WWWHs by car at some point. So bottom line is I’m just saying that IMO, Forrest tells us by saying take it in the canyon down NFBTFTW that we continue to drive after we begin at WWWHs and not walk to the PIBTHOB. And if we have have the correct WWHs and Canyon down, we will come to the HOB (if we recognize it as such). That could be 6, 8, 10, 20 miles…not far, but why walk when you can drive it. From there it’s all BOTG to me. And I do not think every clue is a point on a map.

            I know this is a basic, simple way to look at the second stanza, and it may be way off. But I think so many are making it more difficult then it already is. I don’t have the answers by any means, but something tells me when all is said and done and Indulgence is found, most of us will be (if we’re still around!) “Are you kidding me!” LOL! I have no doubt that Forrest will have the last laugh!

        • Seeker says: “That sounds like we can correctly guess where that put in station might be an skip the prior information / clues.”

          You use that a lot, incorrectly I think. It sort of makes me cringe every time.

          “If you are sure about the location of home of Brown why are you concerned about where warm waters halt?” (http://mysteriouswritings.com/questions-with-forrest-fenn-and-the-thrill-of-the-chase/)
          Forrest already said that if he told us who Brown was we would go right to the chest.(hdnet world report 4/2/2013)

          So I say “Yes, IF someone could know of hoB… Why bother with prior clues?”

          To me, there is little doubt that you need WWWH TIITCD NFBTFTW to find (filter to) the correct HoB. Your idea that, somehow, this treasure is located in a place that you cannot physically get to without physically following the same precise path you used to initially find it is, IMO, just not in keeping with geographical reality and FF ATFs. You can interpret a couple ATFs with a VERY VERY narrow filter to arrive at your conclusion, but I find it not in keeping with a realistic, fitting, interpretation of all the ATFs.

          mBG

          • I agree that all previous clues are necessary to find the correct HoB, but I disagree with your comment that “this treasure is located in a place that you cannot physically get to without physically following the same precise path you used to initially find it is, IMO, just not in keeping with geographical reality and FF ATFs.”

            FF has made it clear that the clues and locations are contiguous and linear. One must follow the clues in order. There are no shortcuts. And there is only one way in and out. I would list all of the sources, but there would be too many links and my post would be blocked. I am sure you understand which quotes I am referring to. If not, I am sure you know how to search for them.

            As for “not far, but too far to walk” I propose another possibility for all to consider. I have said a few times that I believe the line refers to a map. Due to scaling, a distance of a few inches can represent many miles. That can be both “not far” and still be “too far to walk”.

            Although interesting, it does not exactly help move us closer to the treasure, so is it a clue? I think that over the years, FF has given other hints to help clarify this. It seems that he uses the phrase “too far to walk” to mean something else.

            Three years after the beginning of the Chase, FF wrote the book “Too Far To Walk”. In the preface to that book, he talks about wading in the Madison River and how much he enjoyed that and would love to do it again, but now it is “too far to walk”.

            The following year, FF talked about getting lost in the Gallatins, that it “was the best”, and how he would love to do that again. But now, “it is too far to walk”. When he got lost in the Gallatins, he was not walking. He and Donnie were on horseback.

            I think that he is using the phrase to tell us “not there” or “wrong way”. We have a starting point at WWWH. From there, we have a direction and a distance. I think the line is giving us a distance, but also telling us the location is not “somewhere in the Gallatins” nor somewhere on the Madison River.

            Just my thoughts on it.

          • I have not seen where he specifically says you *must* physically, literally, follow the clues from place to place. They are all speaking figuratively, not literally. Figuratively, there are no shortcuts. You need to solve a clue before you can solve the next. This ATF specifically says you don’t need to physically travel from clue to clue:
            1. It is not likely that anyone will find it without following the clues, at least in their mind.” (https://thefenndiagrams.com/q-a-with-fenn/fourth/)

            Paraphrasing, If you know HoB why look for WWWH? If you knew who Brown was you could go right to the treasure. And so on.

            mBG

    • PI-
      I don’t disagree with what you stated above. I don’t wander very far on foot but I do travel too far to walk in my car before I start out on foot.

  36. I’m just tossing this out there because I never heard it discussed…

    Far; used to refer to the side, end etc that is more distant.

    A couple things come to mind. One being “far” as pertaining to “right side”
    However if searchers – put in below – the “right side” (far also meaning right side) of hoB or canyon or WWsH… Could “not far” imply the opposite left side or directions to be?
    … the wrong side (being the right side).

    The idea of a mirror image of what the clue might be indicating?

    I personally have never been able to work much out with this idea… On a Map… But, I have never found a location I like enough to see how it plays out on site. One reason being… I don’t think hoB is recognizable on a map view.

    Just pondering…

  37. Excellent post, Dal. I like how you are thinking about this. One of my own interpretations is kind of similar. Several times I’ve gotten to a place were I needed to be on the other side of an uncrossable chasm or canyon or mountain. It’s not far as the bird flies, but it would be a hellova long walk to go around it. Distance always equals time, one way or another.

    mdavis19

  38. I really like the idea of moving through time or geological time… a million years can be a blink in geological time that can be represented many layers of sedimentation, or other rock formation, yet can be ‘not far’ in physical distance. Layers of rock built up around a hot spring may only be a few feet thick, but can account for a very long time indeed.

    I also really like the idea shared of it is too far to walk around a river, but not to far if one wades across it.

    With the latter in mind… I can also picture a section of canyon that one must drive around (or take some other form of transportation around). i.e. – one could begin at WWWH, but not be able to walk down the canyon from that point. Maybe the landscape is too rough to walk, but one could “climb” that section – and f was telling us that he did not walk it because if was too far to go that route. Which could be a possible explanation for “put in” (BTHOB). For instance, searcher begins at their WWWH and drives down past/around an impassable section of canyon, then puts in to a parking spot where one can then resume their “walk” to find the treasure. Could this section of impassable – by walking – canyon rule out other canyons and or HOB possibilities to help narrow ones search to the correct one?

    The ‘put in’ followed by, ‘no place for the meek’ could suggest again that one is no longer taking the easy route (driving). The “meek” drive through/past scenery and those who are adventurous get out and walk/hike the terrain.
    MOO on what might be meant by some of the words in the poem related to ‘too far’

    • HotL,

      All those are great to think about… But they all have one thing in common, they relate to the searcher. WhatIF it’s about the water(s).
      An example might be the waters traveling underground… Not far to where it resurface (not far – away) but too far for a searcher to walk the same route of said waters.

      Are we taking the word walk too seriously as to be of a searchers movement -?- just because we feel the need that we need to go somewhere?

      The idea of time, geographical, doesn’t really tell a searcher to go anywhere… At least not at this point. It just explains the idea we can’t physically go back in time to any given point, but we can see the results of those times.

      In the pic Dal provided, the waters (over time) created the canyon we see today… But we can’t travel that time or a special time period. But we can understand a specific time period that might relate to the solve…

      I mean, Fenn did imply we need to learn WWsH, right?

      Could halt mean that at this period of “time” the waters are done carving out a section of canyon long ago… A section that is higher or above a person yet happen a million years ago?

      Time is tricky to think about (solving the poem) because the reader of the poem must try and figure out what the “time” actually relates to.
      The searcher.
      The waters.
      Of past time.
      Of present time.
      Of future time.
      A combination of some of those or all of them.

      The other option might be; “too far” to do anything (walk) simply means *don’t* do it.
      The question is why tell us not to walk? Because for me… This is the point in the poem Fenn has said searchers get stumped (clues 3&4) and “leave” the poem.

  39. It’s an interesting idea and I won’t rule out that “too far” could apply to time instead of horizontal distance. But if that’s the case, why wouldn’t Forrest have used the wording “too long” instead? He would still have that clever double-meaning, but “long” seems to be applicable to both distance and time much more than “far”.

    Also, to anyone who may be reading this thinking that now they should try rappelling (or even worse free-scrambling) down the wall of a canyon from its rim to its bottom (or something along those lines), please don’t, and remember Forrest’s advice about safety and not going where an 80-year-old man couldn’t go. I almost wonder if that guy who got rescued in Yellowstone Canyon over this past Winter may have been thinking something similar along those lines.

    • Blex,

      I like that you brought up the guys rappelling down a canyon.

      It reminds me of… It’s not a matter of trying, it’s a matter of thinking. People figured the first couple of clues and unfortunately walked passed the treasure chest.

      Even this comment seems to imply *don’t* walk or don’t go too far.
      The idea that we may need to think about *time* for understanding this line in the poem does give credence to the idea of *too far for anything* could be of a period of time vs. a movement by a searcher.

      Might this idea Dal presented be the reason Fenn just didn’t write a poem and made it public on its own… But placed it in a book of memories of the past? As well as telling us he was thing down the road when writing the poem.

      Subtle hints?.. about time, and how time, or sequence of time might be involved with a solution…

      LOL… But as you can see, a lot of folks don’t even consider the possibility. I just find that interesting. One reason might be because we can get stuck on a precondition notion of stomping clues and creating a need to move from one to another only.

      This is why I like this thread… It trying to explain that a clue or clues don’t need to be physical points or places, or that physical travel between all clue reference is needed.
      Think that way almost forces a solve to have nine different locations / places.

      • Seeker – Yes, I do appreciate the alternate line of thinking dal’s doing that doesn’t “mess with” the poem itself. I play devil’s advocate a lot on my own ideas and do it with those of others’ just to help rattle things around and see what shakes loose and what sticks. Think of it as “quality assurance”! 😉

        I’ve been thinking about dal’s notion a lot through today, and not everything is shaking loose, so there might be some stickiness there. How to exactly apply the idea of time to solving the poem still eludes me at the moment. I mean, what we’re trying to do is find a very specific geographic location: that where the Chest is hidden. So why should the 9 clues refer to anything but geographic locations (and perhaps vectors) for reference?

        Forrest mentioned Captain Kidd in the past and that has always brought to my mind that sort of classic notion of the hidden pirate treasure, like in Robert Louis Stevenson’s “Treasure Island”. Where, in order to locate a spot where treasure is buried, you use a series of reference points and distances along with a map to find the hidey spot. Forrest throws some subtlety into the mix by being a bit more cryptic about what exactly those reference points and vectors are. At least that’s what I always thought. Bringing the idea of time into the mix leaves that traditional pattern and leaves me scratching my head over how it could somehow get layered over geography.

        Forrest has expressed many times his awareness over how the landscape changes over time, and acknowledges his uncertainty as to what exactly these events will do to the Treasure Chest. On the same topic though, he’s never expressed concern over whether or not the Chest’s location has been affected since he had hid it. He’s also made peace with the fact that it may be a thousand years until the Chest is found. Mashing all of those points together at the moment seems to dissuade me from considering time to be a critical factor in finding the Treasure’s location.

        Then again, there’s that “why didn’t I think of that sooner?” factor to the whole thing. So maybe dal’s onto something here and I just can’t put my finger on it yet. From reading this post, it sounds like dal may be in that same boat himself at the moment. It’s certainly an idea to keep in mind and ponder over a little more.

  40. So far forrest’s wizdom has stood the test of time. I think it’s because his choice of words were made wisely, and the destination being even wiser… maybe too wise for most to see the light.

  41. For most of my searching time, I didnt liked the idea of a distance in time for “too far to walk”. Mostly because I didnt know to which point this theory should lead me. But in the solve “My TTOTC Solution…by Christian”, Christian wrote about an interesting option, and since there on, I changed my mind.
    And IMO, Forrest talked at least one time about a distance in time when he used the words “too far to walk”:

    Forrest Fenn: Forrest, “I enjoyed my recent trip through southern Montana! Some part of me wants to get lost in the woods where just maybe, I can find myself spiritually. My question for you now is, if you got another chance to enjoy Yellowstone in your youth, is there anything there that you wanted to do but never got the chance to? -The Count”

    The answer of Forrest Fenn: “Count, There are many things I want to do now that I didn’t do then. I want to fish every stream, catch every fish, sit under every tree, and hike the mountains I didn’t hike. And I would like to get lost in the Gallatins again. That was the best, but for me now, it’s too far to walk. f”

    I hope this comment is correct. Since Jennys site isnt working right now, I just copied this from the solution I mentioned before.

    The link to this comment is:

    http://mysteriouswritings.com/featured-question-with-forrest-fenn-and-the-thrill-of-the-chase-lost-in-the-gallatins/

  42. Although it might be helpful, I don’t think you have to walk, or even go, to the location of the the first 3 clues. The 4th clue IMO is the blaze. It probably requires BOTG, as does the last clues.

    Going from the first clue, WWWH, to the second clue, HOB, can be done using a map or GE. The poem describes two routes from WWWH to HOB. The first route is that you take it (the search) in the canyon down. This canyon, in my solve, is a relatively long steep canyon that has many meanders, making it much longer than a direct route. Most of the canyon has high water in it all the time. This long meandering canyon eventually goes to the HOB.

    It is a much shorter distance from WWWH to HOB if you just walked in a straight line, as the crow flies. It’s nearly exactly 24 miles in a straight line from WWWH to HOB, in my solve.

    So in the line, “not far but too far to walk,” Fenn could have a secondary hidden meaning of “not far but two four to walk.” Two four is 24. It’s 24 miles if you walk a straight line from WWWH to HOB.

    Fenn uses words in different ways and twists them to achieve his desired results. “Far” sounds like “four” and “too far” sounds like “two four” (24).

    Interestingly, this same line, “Not far but too far to walk,” also gives a strong distance hint to the end of the last clue of the poem. Because of it’s very important multiple uses in solving the poem I think that’s why Fenn used that same line as the title of his second book.

  43. I would like to think in a very simple way. Let’s suppose you’re standing on one side of the canyon and looking at the wall on the other side of that canyon which shows an interesting looking geographical feature. And in addition there is no man-made bridge or a road close by to cross the canyon.

    Now you’re going to explain this situation to someone. As far as you can see the beeline distance from where you’re standing to the feature on the other side is only about 500 feet (NOT FAR). If there is a bridge or a road across the canyon right there you can easily walk to it on the bridge or a road. But since there is no bridge nor a road close by, you cannot walk to it directly (you cannot walk on thin air, TOO FAR TO WALK meaning it’s impossible), you have to find the way to cross the canyon somewhere downstream or upstream and get to the feature.

    Therefore the total distance from where you are now to the feature can be very far if you start walking (TOO FAR TO WALK, literally it could be miles before you get there because a bridge or road to cross the canyon is very far). When you’re on the other side of the canyon you may lose track where you are with respect to the feature because that feature is very hard to locate on the other side even though it is very easy to spot it from this side of the canyon. But luckily there is a landmark close to that feature on the other side. And that landmark is none other than the “home of Brown.” When you find it you can park your car, get out of your car, and walk right to that feature.

    IMO this is the simplest and one of the right interpretations on NFBTFTW. Oh, one more thing on Madison Junction. I’m sorry to say this but I strongly think that you can forget about Madison Junction. IMO you would be far better off if you start to look around somewhere else other than Madison Junction. Try to think what physical feature of the water or a river can be better described as “halting” other than the temperature change or mixing with other body of water.

    — MajinKing

    • MajinKing
      You expressed better than I had expressed it on the ‘not far, but too far’ bit, which apparently gave some the idea that I was suggesting traversing difficult terrain rather than driving to the ‘put in’, that I believe is the first place one might encounter an official man made trail… though here too, I do not believe a searcher has to physically go to that location, so long as they understand it is a part of the series of clues. IMO

      IMO – one could give directions of getting from L.A. to N.Y. using descriptive terms without giving the actual place names. Once one figured out that the L.A. area was where one began and that the N.Y. area was where one would end – you would not have to stop at all the cities in between just to get there… especially if you flew, or began your trip in Chicago to N.Y. Of course the poem area is far smaller in scope, (in my solve about 10 mi) beginning to end of poem. Maybe a better example (in relation to skipping past some of the clues in the poem – as to going to each location – on a smaller scale) Say a friend is given a map to a house in a city they have never been to. He references on the map how to reach their friend’s home based on driving there from the airport. However, having driven into town the night before and staying in a hotel, the map directions (actual locations) require various directions such as turn right (similar to clues in the poem (IMO)) as well as the land marks. In looking the map over maybe the friend realizes that the other friends home is just around the corner and down a block, as one of the reference points on the map was the hotel currently being stayed in. Though walking from the airport would have been two far… the walk from the hotel is just fine – some of the clues (though their location would need to be known and understood in relation to where he/she was located), no longer required going to… or past those locations.

      In my favorite solve the clues are contiguous locations, but one does not have to physically visit each until one gets further along in the clues and nearer the location of the TC IMO. – Though one has to know those locations and how they relate to the final ‘blaze’ MOO

      • Hi HotL,
        I have something to say about your last paragraph. IMO the clues are not only contiguous but also must be visited contiguously because there is no other way to take to get to the final TC location, and also there are no short cuts according to FF. What I’m saying is that there is ONLY ONE way from the beginning to the end, i.e., you cannot cut into the “solution path” from anywhere even if you solve the poem and have the complete and correct solution IMO.
        — MajinKing

        • In my solve I went to the middle,and tried going to the last clues, but realized that I had to figure stuff out in the first clues, so I had to turn around and start again. Would’ve saved a lot of time if I woulda thunk about contiguous first. Either wYaybe therll be a box after 9 this summer.

        • Not that the thrill of the chase is a child’s treasure hunt… but like a child’s treasure hunt… you set up clues… one clue leading to another, which eventually leads to the treasure. However, if you are the parent that set up the treasure hunt do you have to go pick up each clue to get to the treasure you hid… or could you go to it directly?
          Now picture the poem as a series of clues leading to that special spot where the treasure is. If you have figured out each of the clues in the poem (and the fact that they are contiguous is your verification you are on the right train of thinking) then why would you have to go to each location in turn… since you know where they are and what they mean in relation to the next clue/location. Why would you not simply go as close as you could to the blaze?
          Example only: Imagine warm waters halt as being a pool at a hot springs, imagine HOB being a cabin 5 miles away (down a canyon). Below the HOB is an area that is NPFTM. And you have from there identified your HLAWH… If there is a way to go directly to HLAWH… why would you go to WWWH if it placed you miles away from your final destination?
          Of course that means having a solid solve that one is certain is the correct one, but what would the point be of back tracking if you knew what each clue meant and the path to HLAWH didn’t require/force you to go past the other clues (unless one chose to do so) maybe for photos?
          I guess if one hasn’t gotten a solve and is trying to tie their WWWH to the next clue “on site”, then they haven’t really prepared to find the TC. MOO, but I believe all of us searchers want to have a good solve already before they go looking so they don’t have to go to every single spot. One would want to try to get as close to the blaze as one can to reduce the search area as quickly as possible.
          Me only maybe… but I am going to assume f was saying ‘too far to walk’ because he was telling us that it really was a long ways to walk and he was suggesting we didn’t have to.
          With my solve, one can get close to the blaze without physically passing all but the last few clues.
          Those who got the first two clues right… …maybe they walked past the last few clues because they were heading to the locations of the first clues which actually placed them further away from where they ultimately wanted to be. (fits my solve as well). You are right… there are no short cuts… i.e. you can’t figure out the blaze for certain until you have figured out all the prior clues – and likely will not be certain what the blaze is until one is actually BOTG, but figuring out the prior clues would suggest you did everything you needed to do to get to the blaze area… so no short cuts were taken.
          Don’t worry too much about whether I have anything remotely correct or am way off track. I likely will never make it to the search area I came up with in person. I will likely be consigned to the bleachers watching for someone else to either verify my solve, or show me just how wrong I was.
          Good luck all when you can safely travel and search again!!!!

          • HotL,

            FF has said:
            “There are nine clues in the poem, and the clues are in consecutive order.” (May 2011 – Lorene Mills Interview)

            “you should start with the first clue and follow the others consecutively to the treasure.” (12/11/14)

            “They’re contiguous. I knew where I wanted to hide the treasure chest so it was easy for me to put one foot down, and then step on it, to get to the next foot, that’s what I did.”
            (11/2/13 – Moby Dickens Bookstore Event)

            “To answer some questions and save others from being asked, I did follow the clues in the poem when I hid the treasure chest,” (6/5/2017)

            Q. When you hid your treasures, did you take the same path that is described in the poem, or were you able to skip some of the steps because of your familiarity with the area?
            Thank you Curtis
            A. The clues should be followed in order Curtis. There is no other way to my knowlege. f
            (6/20/14)

            Q. Dear Mr. Fenn, Once you hid the treasure, did you take the exact same route in reverse to return to your car?”
            Thank you. ~ Tyler Y.

            A. Yes I did Tyler, it was the most direct route. f

            In my opinion, this clarifies what I said earlier about there being only one way to get there. One way in and out, and you must follow the clues in order to do it. There are no shortcuts.

            Lori

          • Hi HotL,

            You said,
            “Example only: Imagine warm waters halt as being a pool at a hot springs, imagine HOB being a cabin 5 miles away (down a canyon). Below the HOB is an area that is NPFTM. And you have from there identified your HLAWH… If there is a way to go directly to HLAWH… ”

            So what I said in my previous post is that there is one and only way from WWH to HOB (you cannot cut into that way in the middle), and also one and only way from HOB to NPFTM, and again one and only way to HLAWH.

            You mentioned that “why would you go to WWWH if it placed you miles away from your final destination?”

            Since there is no other way to get to the final TC location other than the solve. You have to follow the solve contiguously, one by one and you cannot take any short cuts. I know it sounds crazy, but IMO it’s true as Lori posted previously.

            — MajinKing

  44. What we have is a reference to two points.
    Look at the preceding instructions, begin it and take it, a point to begin and a point to end.
    One it is not far and the other it is too far to walk.
    Two points, the beginning and the end.

  45. Yeah, maybe, I sure don’t have a clue. But it’s a novel consideration — based on definition 1 regarding distance and definition 2 regarding time, maybe his first reference to ‘far’ suggests one (distance), while second suggests another (time).

    Regardless, when I take the dogs out to Santa Fe for day hiking in the Pecos Wilderness and Sangres around Taos, it’s a fun change-up to do a hike behind Ghost Ranch for a change of scenery. Love the striations in the cliff sides and the awareness of vast periods of time that occurred before our species arrived. Dusty when dry and slippery clay when wet, but visually impactful, nonetheless. Plus, it’s always fun to grab a green chili cheeseburger at Abiquiu Inn on way home and chill on their patio, especially since they provide water bowls and bisquits for my kiddos.

    • Aarvarkbark,

      Ok the first “far” say “not” (far) – yet with nothing to judge what not far could be, only it implies something about “walk”… Either to mean don’t go or don’t walk drive.
      The “second far” if related to time or time period or time sequence…
      The question that might need asking is *when* does time become involved?

      If TFTW means don’t go.. the first far should be line of sight to see what is not far (away).
      Yet we have something we need to look for or find, right? Home of Brown. Yet still, if time of some sort is involved when do that fit in?
      Stanza 3 is really the only point in the poem that would explain what TFTW is about. Pretty much anything else is a guessing game by the reader because of the lack of information in the line NF,BTFTW.

      Is this thought process reasonable?.. trying to understand when and where time fits in.

      • @Seeker — “trying to understand when and where time fits in.”

        I gather that Dal is suggesting the possibility of considering geological time. Regardless, f tells us he hid it in one afternoon, with two trips from his car at some point, so that’s definitely where time fits in.

        • That is ONE aspect of “time” aardvarkbark, but I am sure that there may be a couple of other aspects of time that must be considered – JMO – JDA

  46. Seeker, it’s tough to think that time comes into play at this point when time comes into play towards the end. The area would roughly be the same, meaning the time will be the same as when you need to find that shadow. The time part would need to be exact at a certain spot, meaning at the start or hoB, or let’s say the first 3 clues, it would be different by a couple hours, minutes, whatever. If that is the case, the searcher would be looking for two times within the poem, but these times would be close together. Definitely the same day. I just don’t see f putting in the poem a specific date and time for the end along with an earlier time for the start.
    So, in an observation at the start, waiting for a specific time to take in, so something would be seen so the searcher can go put in somewhere means that the searcher, following his/her path better hurry to the next time spot for a shadow or miss it for another year. Unless of course if it is just possible to solve at what time and know the distance from that.
    I’m not saying observing is wrong, I definitely have it within my solve towards the beginning, it’s just the thought of observing a certain time at the beginning would lead to having to be at certain spots at different time intervals. I just don’t see f doing something like that, one time yes, but to have maybe two or three, within the same day, seems a little much. And as you can see, I’m not saying it with 100% certainty, I guess it could be possible, just to short of a poem to involve so much. Again, I’m with observation at some point, I’m with there being a certain time we need, but if there are multiple times, they best be the same day. So, what would be a better guess? Father’s day, even though this is all about Forrest, or Forrest’s birthday, or maybe the book release date? Maybe 28,800 days from Aug.22, 1930, since that would be the amount of words in the book. If you asked me,(and this is not a guess), it’s all about Forrest, Aug. 22nd.
    I still think the whole thing does involve something between he and his father.

    • A couple things I like to point out poisonivy,

      I disagree that the poem has anything to do with Fenn himself or background.. he is just the creator of the challenge.
      (To add; it seems Fenn doesn’t think the place will have the same effect on us as it does for him.. so why would this be about him)
      As to the *date* I believe the book helps here but not really needed… June never got paddle because she was always right.
      June being the right month.

      Fenn finally (after being ask many times) answered when did he hide the chest? Answer “summer” … What is the first day of summer that would involve time and event? You should be able to figure it out.
      As to time of day… I think stanza three explains a “place” meaning a “situation” the searcher needs to be in and the situation always as an ending… Every 24 hours.
      This gives us a time of day… Morning or sunrise.

      So the timing is exact, and it is observed from WWsH… Month, day (a few days could produce the same result) and time of day.

      The sticky note solve;
      Get to WWsH.
      Look downward on a map *southward* along said canyon.
      Discover hoB … But don’t leave WWsH.
      Be there in June approx. The first day of summer..and event. For the morning sunrise.
      HoB is your “blaze” used not unlike a sundial and should point to the hide
      Or shorter;
      At WWsH watch hoB cast a shadow on the morning of solstice to the hide.

      I can’t simplify it more than that.

      • Hello Seeker. By using a sundial approach, wouldn’t that cause problems for the searcher by means they could only go when there is some form of sunlight? Summertime brings a decent chance of rain. What are your thoughts about Mr. Fenn hiding it in one afternoon?

        • PD,

          We know that the chest (itself) can probably be retrieved in any weather, right?

          I’d like to know if; can the *clues* be followed to the hide on any day of a year?

          Some folks who don’t care for the observational therapy preach the reason it’s hard to find the chest because the scale of the search area includes miles between clues.

          I say it may be hard to find just for that reason (only during a short time in summer)… yet folks can walk by clues and the chest all year long because there might be only a short window of time to actually follow the clues correctly AND precisely.

          I can’t help it, if the theory is true, that folks would cry fowl… But it is our job to understand the poem that was made to be “difficult but not impossible.”

          People should look up the word difficult.

          • Hello Seeker. You pose a good question. I don’t know if I can truly answer that question. We know he hid it in the summer. I’ve wondered about being retrieved in any weather. At one time I thought of any weather means all weather, which made me think of Richard Wetherill, whom I believe is mentioned in his book. Wetherill sounds like “weather all/all weather” to me. He also misspelled his last name in the book and I truly felt he knew how his last name should be, especially his love for the topic involved. This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

          • Difficult, somewhere between a rock and a hard place. Imo only, not an actual definition. But so apt in this context.

          • Troublesome.

            Hard to comprehend?

            Difficult – required effort /power/work.

            Diff I cult
            Cult – dark – occult…this hole is getting deep. I digress.

      • That is interesting. If, then, ff’s special place he has great respect for, the one he always had in mind and was going to make work no matter what, is a place he found while a young man, it’s likely within traveling distance of WYS, as that’s where he was in June of each year, right? At least if going w/sunrise and back in time/youth…

      • Hi Seeker,
        According to your theory you have only one day available to find the TC location in a whole year, and that’s too much restriction for ordinary searchers. I don’t think a particular date, availability of the sun and the right time of the day has nothing to do with the solution. IMO like most of the searchers you seem to think too hard. Simple thinking like kids is what FF is asking here, I’m pretty sure.
        — MajinKing

        • I have my solve for solstice, merely for fun(if I’m right). Otherwise I figur I’ll check it out on the days surrounding full moons. Sky stuff has been used for navigating for a long time.

          • Hi Brian u,
            IMO you don’t need any other navigational helps other than 9 clues in the poem.
            — MajinKing

        • MK,

          I get it – the idea of *restrictions*
          My only response is; the prize is of great value… and the value of the items keep increasing by the year. I’m talking about market value of not only the gold, but collectable coins, artifacts, presious stones etc.

          My second thought is… It’s the searcher responsibly understand what is needed to be done to complete the task… Because; all the information to find the chest is in the poem.

          If my theory is remotely correct… It was accomplished by the multiple meanings of the actual words in the poem.
          The only restrictions I see is wild goose chase and
          tossing darts at a map, hoping the area can squeeze out something that might resemble a solve, isn’t going to cut in my book.

          What happened to the idea of walking to the chest with a smile and leaving with a grin… Doesn’t that imply you knew what was needed, beforehand?

          Imo, the poem has done exactly what Fenn wanted to do.. folks off the sofa, out in the mountains, working up a sweat.
          Well, except for the folks driving 1/2 the clues.

      • Seeker

        Not having solved the poem or being in possession of the tc, how can we rule out any involvement of ff.

        Surely everything has to remain on the table until that time? We might shelf the idea for a while, but to eliminate it completely may be premature.

        Just saying.

        • BigOnus,

          My thinking is!
          To create a challenge that you ask all to try and solve, that is placed in a book of memories… The last thing I would want is to have the solution relate to the actual memories.

          I mean, isn’t this the first thing every assumes? Learn anything and everything about him…
          Many like to call Fenn unconventional. Then why think he wrote the clues to be about him, rather than the location itself -?- for example.
          Or about a geological / geographical period of time?

          Not unlike this thread topic… Many want a physical unknown distance to travel simply because it seems we think we need to physically travel, like other more conventional treasure hunts.

          Think if it this way… Many like the idea of “put in” to be about water.
          Mainly because Fenn is an avid angler. So they pick the definition of “put in” too match that.

          LOL “put in” also relates to the “time” – someone spends doing something. However, this definition is mostly dismissed because of fenn’s love for fishing.

          Who’s right and who is wrong?
          Only time will tell.

    • On an overcast day, if there’s an important shadow involved, solving the poem correctly might be difficult. As always, IMO.

      • Smart thinking, shadows or light from the sun may be in play. Weather, as many of us have learned the hard way, is always at play in the Rockies. I would remind folks unaware of the dangers in the search area to take Forrest’s advice into account for any searches you plan. All of the seasons in the Rockies are wonderful and rewarding, however the chase cannot, imho, be solved in any season.

  47. So NFBTFTW means; Find map room, have medallion with jewel, set atop of staff but subtract or add a inch (horse shoe story), place staff in right spot, what for light to show the correct location.
    Well, i got a stick.

    • Hi NearIndianaJones,
      IMO if you stand at the correct location near WWWsH you can clearly see the blaze, tarry scant with marvel gaze, the approximate TC location, the landmark features 200 feet and 500 feet from the TC location. Also you can deduce the location of the home of Brown from all of the above if you cannot see it because the exact location is hidden from your view.
      — MajinKing

      • Hi MajinKing,
        IMO, but it will be too simple puzzle. Forrest was working under this riddle many years and it looks like that this puzzle is multilayered (location, time, memories are all mixed well and solution become very complex).

        • Maybe true, but Forrest did say that the finder would say something like – “What took me so long?” Meaning, in actuality that the solution will turn out to be pretty simple – Whatever that means – 🙂 JDA

          • Hi JDA
            If my findings are correct you won’t believe how simple
            the end is and what it is.Clint

        • Hi Andy S,
          IMO the only reason why nobody was able to find the TC until now is that all searchers are thinking too much and expecting the solution to be complex. Boy, it can be so simple!!! That’s why FF mentioned “why haven’t I thought about that?” once they know what the real solution is.
          — MajinKing

          • Hi MajinKing,
            I agree – when searcher got good solution it immediately become very simple for him/her. But only before BOTG. After you start BOTG everything become very complex i.e. each waterfall become WH and each big boulder looks like blaze etc. And each searcher has own hoB and he/she is 100% sure that it’s correct one.
            You said that in your solution “if you stand at the correct location near WWWsH you can clearly see the blaze”. So, the distance between WWWsH and the blaze is not far to walk? In this case your blaze should be very big object. Thus, all “500 and 200 feet searchers” should saw this structure. Why they didn’t recognise it and never search around?

          • Hi Andy S,
            Because they never thought that IS the blaze they were looking for. They just looked and saw where their eyes pointing, but never ever thought that’s what FF used as the blaze in his poem. They have never guessed the blaze they were looking for was that close from the WWWsH.
            — MajinKing

  48. You have to close your eyes and picture it. You can’t walk to a memory. I’ve always thought of this point in the poem as a place where you take your shoes off and slip on Forrest’s. Hope he’s a size 9.

  49. May the far be with you.

    Rather than a lightsaber, I want a super sabre.

    That’s no feathered moon, it’s a tesuque.

    And… C3PO loves Forrest.

  50. What about the Messa Verde to far sign. There is a lot to be said about the area and the bracelet,and the people. I don’t get on here very much so you might have already talked this out

  51. Dal, this is an Excellent topic for multifaceted discussions. Thanks for introducing it. Your thoughts regarding the poem traveling through eras and epochs is spot on. When in grid format, ff included references to eras, dinosaurs, the great flood, etc. However, I haven’t found those references helpful in solving to my location.

    When contemplating all the possible meanings/uses of “far” that Forrest may have intended…the 3 most important considerations IMO are:

    1. Forrest thought he was going to die soon at the time he began drafting the poem.

    He may have been asking himself questions like, ‘How far is heaven?’ Is it a physical place? How do I get there?

    What are my deepest regrets, is it possible to travel far enough away to forget or repair past wrongs done? Memories of lost loved ones…How far away are they, if souls are eternal?

    2. He was giving directions to a location.
    (He has a southern drawl)
    Four said with a Texan’s drawl sounds like Far.
    Many have suggested not 4, but 2-4 which could be 24miles/ 2×4=8 miles or .24 a quarter mile, or 4+2+4=10 miles as stated in TFTW as the River distance which now is too far to walk.

    (My location distance is exactly .24 miles from wwwh into canyon down…Which isn’t far. and you walk it.)

    If you were carrying an injured friend, even 100 ft is too far to walk.

    3. Everything you need is within the poem.

  52. “Maybe “far” is describing traveling through geological time as we move through a canyon…”

    I’ve wondered if ‘Tea with Olga’ is a metaphor for the Abiquiu NM area. Black and red in the rocks and green vegetation (the colors of the teas he mentions). Plus, one might imagine that the canyon sides are a giant nibbled-upon Oreo, with that distinctive white layer displayed between top and lower layers of darker rock. I did a thorough GE search looking for rocks and/or vegetation forming the word ‘Nabisco’ or possibly their Cross of Lorraine logo, but to no avail. Oh sure, I found ‘Hydrox’ distinctly appearing in satellite imagery, but f and Olga nibbled on Oreos, so I presume that must be a lesser treasure clue….

  53. How Far is It. That’s just to far to walk. Some kind of action maybe.
    I had a thought. Time may encompass the poem. I guess if you have in mind
    a certain age you think you are old. You think about your forgotten days.
    I will take a shot at it. Just a made up story.. Not real OK.
    Say If you were 5 years old and you dad dragged you in the woods about a
    mile and you were tired and upset and mad. And your dad said come here and
    look at this pond. See the frogs and dragonflies. And all of a sudden it was so
    worth it. Your first Indiana Jones moment. Explorer moment. A Moment in time.
    Now you could not wait to get our in the woods to explore.
    A special place a moment in time. No it is not in a pond. This is just made up.
    Or is it. just kidding. So the poem may encompass a moment in time.
    Memories new and old. I don’t see NFBTFTW about time. IMO..

  54. put in is a direction – it means to turn and go that way and you will be below home of brown, till you get there- to be below hob is to be on the east of hob wwwh

  55. Not far tells you two things, for two different reasons. The geographic one Is the easy one: you are driving from one point to another. The other is him telling you its not a distance you are trying to find out. On another subject, my favorite quote by f is “the last place I want to be is on a trail”. When solved, you will realize the last place(9th clue) is right off a trail lol. I’ve already given answer to 9: hear me all- 1 of the solutions to this is he only addresses a group(thus hear me all) once in book. Teachers chapter. The kids describe the Sculpture “The End of the Trail” art, bronze, Indian, statue. Then cold to touch- worth the cold. Brave and in the saddle. It’s so funny, most of us assumed the person who solved it could put solve online and nobody would listen. This is what is happening now lol. Two omegas: 2 ends, end of trail and the end of a “rainbow”. All in one area and I am not being sappy.

  56. As usual, nice post Dal, and thanks for sharing.

    I haven’t read all of the comments afterwards, and this may be one of the other ideas you have already tried, but I again look to a poetic reading of the line. We seemingly have a place WWWH and TIITCD, meaning waterS both halt and take, with the latter in a downward direction of a distance that is NF, BTFTW. Poetically I think of that downward distance as impossible to walk for some reason (vertically sheer, for example) despite it being not a great distance (Not far). IMHO, even as little as 10 feet of sheer cliff-face is too daunting a task for a 79-80 to climb, and an unnecessary risk to boot, especially when you can wordcraft a treasure hunt around the terrain you are trying to use for such purposes. I then see the next line—PIBTHOB—as the command for how to approach those upper limits of your identified and necessary WWWH spot.

    IMO

  57. Dal, since this is a new topic, and appropriate, can you relate the story that you had told about the TFTW preface having to do with the 10 miles quote there, that you were involved with… I can no longer find it on this blog. and now I can’t remember how it went.

  58. Dal

    The following is just my opinion.

    Your question “How far is “not far”…and how far is “too far to walk”?
    and
    Poem line “Not far, but too far to walk.”

    You seem to be looking for an exact distance from one of Forrest’s comments. I do not think that will happen.

    It’s exactly the distance in the poem, it’s from WWWH to NPFTM.

    Find those two points and you will have your driving distance.

    • you might have a driving distance, but one won’t have an HOB… they are connected in some way, skipping it would be hazardous to a solution.

    • Jim,

      IF driving is involved this might work. Even though you seem to skip PIBTHOB, one might need to locate NPFTM as being a large area… Let just say a certain type of wood… But to enter this location properly you would need to do do by the hoB reference.

      So technically you can solve a later clue to find a prior clue..IF.. the later clue needs a specific place of entry.
      Although, most here will say you solved a clue out if order… I say, you still have to follow the clues in consecutive order… Solving in a horse of a different color.

      • Seeker

        Maybe I should have put it this way;

        Start at WWWH

        drive down the canyon

        drive past the HOB ……… PIBTHOB ….. below not at HOB

        put in at the start of no place for the meek

        this would be where you start with your boots on the ground

        This seems to follow the order of the poem.

        • We’re saying the same thing… however, I’m adding an idea that we might not know what hoB refers to until NPFTM is deciphered and where it is… *especially* if we have no know distances to track.
          Hence, if one can find NPFTM and it happens this location is rather larger than small {lets say GNF; petrified wood forest}… by solving it we would need to know where to enter. Because just driving to the closet entry might not be the correct way.
          This now falls to the job of hoB and “put in below” it in the right area of NPFTM.

          We still need to physically follow the clues in consecutive order of the poem, but the question is; can we decipher correctly a later clue, such as NPFTM, to figure out what and where hoB is-?- knowing we need it to correctly move into said larger area?

          The same can be said for “Brave and in the wood” IF it relates to a clue, can it be that the clue NPFTM being petrified wood / forest?

          I get folks like to look at maps and GE… I just like a little more information as to why they see the poem the way they do, and not just say; I go to the first clue and follow the second and follow the third…by driving in-between clues to get to the next clue.

          I mean, if you don’t *know* where and why you’re going to someplace, any trail will take you there. right?

          • Seeker

            I finally got back to this thread and will try to address your comments:

            In my opinion all the clues / locations simply have to match with each other as a searcher travels Forrest’s clues and reading the poem is the most important part of the chase. The distance between the clues is not the important factory.

            Follow what Forrest tells you to do: Begin, down canyon, put in at no place for the meek, go up your creek, find heavy loads and water high.

            If wise find blaze and look down, take the chest and go in peace.

            If this did not work use the rest of the clues to find the treasure.

            Without putting an “X” on a map I’m not sure how to explain my possible solve other than saying have you considered the Forrest’s what if not’s?

            Think about all of his second chances: fired at the cafe, shot down, steeling pies, etc. and in the preface where he says maybe they deserve another turn.

            I have been thinking about about posting my solve simply because it most likely is not correct and even if it would turn out to be 100% accurate I will never make to the search site.

  59. In TTOTC chapter The Long Ride Home, Forrest gets out of the car and walks and discovers it’s too far to get to his “home” and gets back in the car and drives; it was TFTW. What’s the next clue after TFTW? The “home” of Brown. It must be driven in a car.

    • That’s an interesting thought, Matt. I think what catches my attention, if I recall correctly, that he’s wearing his socks, no shoes. I believe there is another story about Cody, the buffalo, and being tossed and in his socks, no shoes.

      • Y’all seem emphatic about lack of shoes. When I think of shoe-less walking, I sometimes think of “tip-toe” walking, sometimes otherwise known as “sneaking”. This is all regardless of the fact that I don’t tink
        one has to be exceptionally sneaky to find and retrieve the trove, because
        it may well be in a location where people rarely go. And the BOTG route to get there may well be in a location where people rarely go. For all I know, there may be a hint in your message. As always, IMO.

    • Ok, Matt,

      Should the line refer to any alternative transportation, other than walking, that would mean hoB can be recognized on a map because we don’t have a known distance between WWshH and hoB.

      Here’s my problem;
      1. We don’t need any prior clue if we get lucky and discover hoB… We just go to it, right?
      2. IF that is possible, why can’t the same be said for HLnWH? Never deciphering any prior clue…
      3. If only the first two clues were solved and clues three and four seemed to stump all… How did folks get do close to the TC (500′ and 200′ respectfully) with only two clues that, apparently, are miles apart to hoB without having more clues solved properly?

      • @Seeker well the short answer is I don’t know for sure. Can you rephrase the first part?

        I think the hinting at driving is referring to a distance and a particular road. Like wwwh, canyon down, tftw, are there only to point out a particular wilderness, or park etc. I don’t necessarily think you can find the HOB on a map without deciphering it beforehand, at least in my area. But I think you can go to it but first you need wwwh to know where you are to confirm. And in my opinion- it can be absolutely be confirmed through an outside source.

        Im not sure why people get close but I suspect they go there for one reason; but nearby (or along the way) is something else that is not apparent to them. IMO

        • ~ It’s not a matter of trying, it’s a matter of thinking. I mean, sure, people figured the first couple and unfortunately walked past the treasure chest.
          The SF podcast I found that on doesn’t seen to work any more.. or I can’t get the dang thing to work.

          Another one is;
          Metro Uk Article March 2013

          ~There have been some who have been within 500 feet because they have told me where they have been. Others have figured the first two clues and went right past the treasure and didn’t know it.

          Here are even more; http://mysteriouswritings.com/forrest-fenn-quotes-on-the-closest-searcher-200-feet-and-500-feet-to-the-treasure-chest-remarks/

        • And yet another one;

          Richard Eeds show May 2016

          People have been within 200 feet that I know for sure because they tell me where they are. They have figured the first couple of clues and unfortunately walked right past the chest.

          “People and They” are the same who solved the first two [ couple ] of clues and walked right past the chest. They / people are searchers.

          • The part about walking “right past the chest” never meant much to me. I can walk all the way around the building at which I receive my “snail-mail”, and by doing this walk, walk “right past the chest”. This is a rabbit hole to me. So is any analysis/tinking about some hypothetical little girl in India — unless, of course, she’s whining about being under-represented politically. In that case, of course, then I’ll spend all my time wringing my hands in guilt for having failed to make her happy.

            The above should be taken with either a grain of salt or
            a drop of salty water. As always, IMO.

          • The Richard Eeds statement was given after someone has 3 or 4 clues figured out. As far as the first example you provided above. Those appear to be two different statements. Fenn could be talking about the first group with 2 clues and a totally different group who were within 500′

            He never clumps these two groups as one, or at least how I read it when he used the word “others”

            Further, there seems to be a difference between the earlier 500 footers and the later 200 footer(s) he refers to, who could have solved more than 2 clues.

          • TallAndrew,

            The Richard Ebb show comment leaves no doubt

            Two clues solvers were 200′ while walking past the TC.
            No salt or pepper or any other condiments

          • Tall Andrew – Are you saying the little girl from India is not Hindu; perhaps Muslim or Christian? I’m wondering why she would be whining a bout underrepresentation in your scenario. I’m making the assumption of course that the girl is Indian. Anyway, most little children don’t whine about politics.

            I try to see the logic in peoples’ comments. When I detect none, that means the comments are not coming from the left side of their “brain”. Just a logical observation.

          • 9=9,

            He states he is uncertain about the first four clues being solved, comment… In the other comment he states he knows… Folks solved the first couple clues.

            However, I would think in all the comments the use of “close” is in reference to either or both the 500′ mark and the 200′ mark… seeing these footages were given as searchers being “close” “walking past” “went by” the TC.

            Your inquiry was of, he never said the first two clues solvers were the same as those within those distance… The 2016 comment say just that… The same people.

          • I think the ones that figured out the fist 2 clues got back in their vehicle and drove to other hiking spots that week and hiked past the treasure far away from the first 2 clues.

            Fenn’s statements would still hold true.

          • Jake-
            I think something similar..
            This takes me back to the “contiguous” thought…
            I believe they went to where we should “Begin it….”
            Then took “it” in the canyon down…
            They drove from the place they began, because:
            1. It was too far to walk, and
            2. They didn’t know about “contiguous”
            3. They didn’t consider the word “in” as in “Take it in the canyon down”

            Forrest didn’t say “take it through the canyon down”…rather…
            by saying “take it “in” the canyon down” Forrest implies that the next clue is in the canyon…not on the other side of that canyon…

            As they drove…following “it” they drove too far and consequently they passed by the other seven clues while driving in their car.
            Not just those two searchers did this…but mostly all of us have been doing that…

            The other seven clues, according to my theory, are in close proximity to the first two…
            Not far at all…
            And that is what made me consider a different definition for “far” then “a measure of distance…”
            And that is why I like “far” means “a measure of time…”
            In a canyon it is very easy to walk a few million years in a very short distance…

            Not just those two searchers did that…but mostly all of us have been doing that…

            Far out, man!

          • Well, we know that Forrest 1) is uncertain about the first four clues being solved and 2) he states he knows that some folks solved the first couple clues. Also we know that if somebody has solved the hoB he/she most likely will find TC after this.
            Simple conclusion here will be: nobody solved the hoB (clue #3 or maybe #4).
            IMO, but even solving of first 2 clues (WWWH, CD and NF, BTFTW) may bring the searcher to some start point from which he/she can walk very close to TC location (at least 500 feet or even less). But without solving of the hoB the area is too big for successful search (maybe needs tens BOTG i.e. not affordable for many searchers).

          • In my personal reading of all the comments; folks deciphered the first two clues and walked on by seven remaining clues and the TC.
            Ya’ll can see it as ya like.

            The true question is; what exactly does fenn consider clues 2 3 n 4?

            Example; and it doesn’t matter what method one uses; Is “Take it in” a clue of its own, followed by, “the canyon down” yet another clues? is the entire line a clue?
            What about the “Put in” vs. hoB? many consider them two different things; a place to locate another place to put in at, line of thinking.
            And Yet again we don’t truly know what fenn refers to as a clue… yet, we do have some idea that stanza two has a minimum of 3 or 4 clues…

            So I going with what the man said; folks solved the first to and “walked” past the chest… to do so they went by the remaining clues as well.

            Q~ Who else knows where the treasure is buried?
            A~ I never said it was buried. I’ve avoided that word. I hid it. I don’t mean to imply that it isn’t buried. I just didn’t want to give that as a clue. It took me two trips in my car to hide the treasure. And I can tell you an 80-year-old man is not going to make a trip *into a canyon,* then *come up* and *go down again.* As for who else knows, I’m the only one. My wife doesn’t know.
            https://people.com/celebrity/author-forrest-fenn-talks-about-missing-treasure-hunter/

            There is no reason an 80 yr old can’t *drive* into a canyon, come back up, and go down again.
            With that said;
            there is no need for it as well, as far as I can see with fenns many comments he made two trips from his car, walked less than a few miles, did it in one afternoon.
            As well as; needing to start at WWsH.

            This is why the idea { this thread} of NF,BTFTW can be considered about a period of time, rather than an unknown distance that would require movement other than walking.
            Even the book tftw talks about not being able to something “now”… Does this mean a physical endeavor, or because we can’t physically go back in time, line of thinking.
            The title of “Once upon a while” mean the same as * once upon a ‘time’* and as we know, this means of a past time of what a story is about.

            If ya’ll want to stay in your vehicles, I’m fine with that… just “Plan” to bring extra gas money and “observe” nature in the mountains through the windshield.

            End of commentary…

          • Didn’t Forrest only say that he “followed” all nine of the clues rather than visited or traveled to? It may have been as simple as the previous searchers putting in below the wrong hoB.

          • We need to know how some searchers roll in the early stages of The Chase that are archived on the internet to help with those Fenn statements.

            If you have the time to read and understand these early searchers documentation of their search for Fenn’s hidden treasure detailed with pictures on 27 pages, then you should understand why some early searchers (2010-2013) that communicated with Fenn could be the scenario of the clues being spread far apart.

            The theory of the clues being close together gets blown apart by one line in the poem although NFBTFTW could be related to the 2nd clue to the 3rd only, Which I think is PIBTHOb.

            NFBTFTW could also be a blanket statement for some or all the clues.
            I think all place/directional clues are touching and/or overlapping.

            Soak in this good read of 27 pages of some early searchers to see how some could have walked or even drove by the treasure.

            https://coronadoschildren.tumblr.com/page/27

          • Seeker, The use of “others” in the first example doesn’t seem like the same people to me. The 2016 example could be yet another set of searchers, but Fenn has already hinted with “3 or 4 clues maybe” that there was progress since his first comment.

            Now, if you believe the first statement means the searchers are the same party that got 2 clues and within 500′ your assumption obviously means that clues 3-9 are all within several feet of each other. I don’t buy it, but that certainly would lead to a lot of new assumptions about the rest of those clues.

          • 9=9,

            I do think the clues a relatively close, however I also think many clues are instructions and a couple direction / directional.

            Stanza 2 has three physical presence places; WWsH.. a canyon.. a hoB.
            In this stanza we have one direction “down” .. we have three instructions; begin observing in the direction of down (take it in) and look below the hoB.

            Stanza 3 tells us why we need to observe and when to plan for this.

            Imo. The
            physical clues are within walking distance, but there is no need to walk to them (except to get to WWsH)

            Folks left the poem and went by the remaining clues mainly because they all felt they needed to.
            The left the physical and instructional clues… and walked right past the chest… Because one of the physical clues in stanza 2 is the blaze.

            Imo… The only real hiking needed is to get to WWsH. Everything else is near each other.
            The instructions connect / join / make the clues contiguous in space and in time.

            However, as to the thread presented… I think to solve the poem, future time needs to be observed.

            Imo..Fenn was thinking down the road and used an event to make it all work.

            Lastly. I don’t know who or when Fenn received the picture… But I bet a nickel it was of the blaze… Only they didn’t know it for the blaze.

            Clues 3&4 stumped them because… Stanza 3 had them stumped as well. All because they left the first clue.

            In theory…

          • Seeker:
            I have never seen that quote before.
            Can you post the time in the interview for the quote you referenced. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyv1fE1nEzk
            You wrote: “People have been within 200 feet that I know for sure because they tell me where they are. They have figured the first couple of clues and unfortunately walked right past the chest.”

            At 10:28 he says the 1st sentence, but not the second. Then, at 11:34 he says something *close* to the second sentence, but not the first. I think your info, and conclusion, is bad data. It’s possible I missed what you quoted (actually I hope I did), but unlikely.

            mBG

          • What I have is from a SF podcast at 1140 min, in.

            As I said, I can’t get it to work for me now… But there was a word I couldn’t make out at the time and asked loco and goofy what they thought… Both came back with; unfortunately. Maybe if loco reads this he might have a different link to work off of.

            This is the same interview when he said; he looked up words and definition of words ….the results are what he wanted.

            Hope that helps.

          • Seeker & MeBigGuy: here is my transcript of the Richard Eeds FM 101.5 radio podcast from 5/27/2016 starting at around 10:07. Link is included at the end:

            FF: “Well, there are nine clues in the poem. And if you can follow the clues, uh, one right after the other, they will take you to the treasure chest.”
            Eeds: “IF you can follow the clues.”
            FF: “There’s a … there’s a big IF there. It’s not easy, but it certainly isn’t impossible. People have been within 200 feet that I know for sure, because they tell me where they are.”
            Eeds: “Well THAT’S a clue right there! Who?”
            FF: “Well, you better go get out in the mountains then, Richard.”
            Eeds: “It seems to me, to my mind Forrest… How long did it take you to write it? I mean it is very complex, it is very well put together, it is you know… in terms of just being a poem and in terms of being kind of literature, it’s very impressive. But in terms of being part of a treasure hunt, it’s even more impressive. How long did it take you?”
            FF: “I worked on it on and off for 15 years, Richard, and I looked up words, and the definitions of words, and I changed them and I went back and rebooted and … uh … I’m very pleased it turned out exactly like I wanted it to turn out.”
            Eeds: “As difficult as you wanted it to be, right?”
            FF: “…And the results are what I wanted out of that poem.”
            Eeds: “Is it fair? You think somebody, I mean if people try hard enough, search hard enough, search long enough, that they can find the chest?”
            FF: “It’s not a matter of trying, it’s a matter of thinking. Read the poem, read the book because there are some hints in the book that will help you with the clues in the poem. But sure, I mean people … people have figured the first couple of clues and unfortunately walked right past the treasure chest.”
            Link: https://santafe.com/podcasts/forrest-fenn-on-treasure-hunting-in-the-rockies

          • Seeker said:
            **~ It’s not a matter of trying, it’s a matter of thinking. I mean, sure, people figured the first couple and unfortunately walked past the treasure chest.

            The SF podcast I found that on doesn’t seen to work any more.. or I can’t get the dang thing to work.**

            — Seeker, the Fenn comment above It is on the Eeds interview that you referenced. (see below)

            **Richard Eeds show May 2016

            ‘People have been within 200 feet that I know for sure because they tell me where they are. They have figured the first couple of clues and unfortunately walked right past the chest.’

            —-Seeker, unfortunately, as ‘mebigguy’ pointed out, it appears you have conflated two different comments from the same interview, that are several minutes apart.—

            May 27, 2016 – – Richard Eeds…. santafe.com/podcasts/forrest-fenn-on-treasure-hunting-in-the-rockies – – @ 10:22 – “people have been within 200 feet that I know for sure because they tell me where they are.” – – – @ 11:42 – “….But sure, people have figured the first couple of clues and unfortunately walked right past the chest.”
            ______________________
            (post the link ya can’t get to work and let us look at it)

          • Zap beat me to it, old yeller. I was composing and had to field a phone call also. Way to go, Zapster!!!! 😉

          • Loco: and pdenver beat us both with the link. 😉 I only had the transcript ready to go because I had just typed in long sections of that podcast last week after you (Loco) posted the link to it I think on Jenny’s a week or so ago. 🙂

          • Forrest has stated that people have figured the first couple of clues and walked past the treasure AND that people have been within 500 feet and even within 200 feet of the treasure and walked on by it.
            Are these the same people? Another way of asking that question, does the location of the treasure ensure that only a “Fenn searcher” will get close to and find the treasure?
            Realizing Forrest is a little cunning and crafty, the people who have figured out the first few clues and ones that have gotten within 500 feet or even within 200 feet could be two separate/ distinct sets of people, non-searchers included.
            On the other hand, we’ve been told that we won’t stumble upon it, that it is isolated, and is a place that we wouldn’t normally go. Figuring out clues and getting within a close distance of the treasure almost have to go hand in hand, right? A non-searcher won’t get close and find it. I think Forrest must be referring to the same people that have figured out at least some of the clues and have gotten distance wise within a stones throw of the treasure. In the end, I think that one would need to go to their spot very deliberately.

      • For the nothing its worth, I think all the sock-walking is just a reference back to socks and squirts …. 6 wet ones on a line. Socks are bags, bags are holes. 6 wet holes in a line…. sounds like a river reference to me.

  60. Ideas from calculus to free form poetry really give this idea lots of legs. But to a meek child. Sometime just across the street may seem to far to walk.

  61. When I was younger, I somehow got interested in quantum physics. It was a long time ago – ! – and people were talking about things like spontaneous existence theory because of books that made understanding quantum reality within the realm of most anyone. I was most struck then by the idea of time as happening all at once, that we experience it in a line, from here to there, because our brains process it that way–we make it into a stream/river/creek in order to understand it and live it.

    Because my early life, like so many people’s, was very difficult, it occurred to me to try an experiment-of-one. I went to a quiet place, imagined myself where I was at some particular difficult time in my earlier life, and in my imagination, reassured my younger self that, while things were hard, everything had come out okay, that I should have faith in the person I would become. Once, when visiting my childhood neighborhood, I stood in a spot I remembered being in so many years earlier, and reached back through time to my self back then. I suddenly had other memories of other times I had stood in that spot, what had been happening, and what I thought and felt. It was like stepping in the same river thousands of times, but it was never the same river…

    If you try it, you may find it gives you a very strange sense of your life. (It also really is comforting.) Then imagine what’s come before you at that spot, going back hundreds, thousands of years and beyond… NFBTFTW, time and distance and feeling.

    I wish I could have found a way to be more concise, but I believe the search for the TC is kind of like that. The clues and hints seem so different from one another, but they unite. Same location, untold experiences.

  62. Hint of riches knew and old refers to line 19. Answers already know. Gives you Past tense, past tents. Botg directions. Quickly down from cease is word bracelet. This is a metaphor for Harvey. So where you cease is Above Harvey. Works in my solve. Cease and bracelet have ace, if you use a lil imagination. He hinted at golf so as to get you to see this. A hole in one, then when you solve through the poem, re-solving it over and over, you know what has a hole in it. A no place is a hole. A void, hollow. That I, ff (h)ollowed precisely…

    • Deepthnkr – Did Forrest name one of those two life-sized Loch Leven trout on the Baker’s Hole interpretive sign, ‘Harvey’?:

      The name Harvey is a Celtic Baby Names baby name. In Celtic Baby Names the meaning of the name Harvey is: Eager for battle.

      Forrest named all his trout. Maybe he named a worthy adversary, Harvey, in his youth?

      Above ‘Harvey’ on that sign is a depiction of my search area, where I do the ‘quest to cease’ thing, after I ‘look quickly down’ at the interpretive sign.

      Great post! Thank you!

  63. If your coming to West ( locals call it ) from Cody, you have one route, so you may pass (if they were there ) all nine clue locatios. ( just for example ).
    Those 2 other seachers that had the 1st 2 clues, may have stopped at them and then drove all the rest of the way to West or where ever, but may have stopped at MJ got within 500 feet took pics an left to site see elsewhere … Just a example again

  64. I searched June 2013 and then drove way down to Santa Fe met ff and told him about 3 different searches I made.

  65. Just supposun yous was barn in Texas. Then yous would be branded far life wiz dat thing called a Texas Drawl. Makes that line in da poem smooth as Bluebonnet buttermilk.

    NOT FOUR BUT TWO FOUR ( 24) TO WALK
    Get yer thumb out….twenty four miles….thats quite a piece to walk in cowboy boots. Not two fur ta walk if it means paces.
    Woo-wee, speck I’m going ta sit down and rest ah spell

    • In TTOTC, does f, in either photo or drawing, appear in cowboy boots?

      If you ‘speck’ and gotta ‘rest ah spell’, I’m guessing you’d never last a day on a Texas ranch or oil field, son.

      And just what is ‘Bluebonnet buttermilk’?!? I’m third generation Texan and ain’t never heard that term. Now ‘Bluebell buttermilk’ would be an entirely different thing, of course…

    • Hey there Lisa Cesari – Your country units of measurement definition of “not too far” = 20-50 minutes is the BEST definition I’ve seen since 2013 when I joined the chase. Great sleuthing.

      20 minutes works great with my solution of ff walking with a heavy pack from his Jeep summit to the hidey hole.

      Hope you are enjoying a beautiful spring in Sun Valley.

  66. To stir would be to key
    As brave would be he who in the warm wood is looking if one has imagination to see the temperdment of his story. Not a beer can one ey has that always been true even way back once apon a snowy night .It wasn’t cold till well …………. The answer you already know. I’ve been trying to go back to my roots so hope to see y’all around ……just a spot that I have regarded as sacret since thee …between there and now lies the secret but where ?

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *