Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…


Please click on the comment balloon below to contribute to the discussion of  Forrest Fenn’s Treasure Hunt. Please note that many topics have their own pages. Please scroll through the blog to see all the discussion pages. There are also stories, scrapbooks, searcher’s reports general information, tips from Forrest, a rumors blog and even email responses from Forrest. So please look around and if you want to make a comment please use the most appropriate page.








432 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…

    • Cynthia said in the video that Forrest stated that you have to read the book to figure out where the first clue is. I’ve never heard this before. I always thought you just needed the poem and a good map. Am I wrong? What about all those searchers that don’t have the book?


        • Dal,
          I hope you didn’t think I was asking you specifically. I was just wondering out loud. Sorry if I caused any confusion.


        • Your clock is an hour fast dal, or were you too tired to realise when you closed the toe comp down?

          • Sorry dal, I backtrack my comment about being 1 hour fast, I just looked at the initial post. Santa Fe time. I had only used 20 words in mine, so went to sign it off and found it closed.

          • I closed it at 5 minutes past midnight, Santa Fe time…The rules state 11:59pm Santa Fe time.
            I did not close it early.

      • Tim … if you are a new searcher, welcome to the chase.

        You stated: “Cynthia said in the video that Forrest stated that you have to read the book to figure out where the first clue is”.

        Her statement is infuriating because it IMPLIES that the poem is not useful in finding WWWH.


        Forrest Fenn has said many times >>> “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem”.

        “ALL” means everything, including the solution to WWWH, the first clue in the poem.

        You can find that Fenn quote at Tarry Scant website. It is the first quote that comes up, using “clue” as the keyword.

        Even if Forrest communicated that little ditty to that searcher, Forrest’s statement is still technically correct, since the poem is in TTOTC.

        But the IMPLICATION of her statement (that reading the entire book is required AND that one cannot find the answer to WWWH in the poem) is highly misleading.

        Tim, don’t let intermediary searcher gurus stand between you and what Forrest Fenn has said, independent of people who get a thrill out of speaking for him.

        Next, we may hear that some high-profile searcher-“friend” of Forrest says that Forrest told them that the poem will not lead to the treasure chest.

        When will searchers ever learn to stop listening to these self-appointed searcher gurus?

        Ken (in Texas)

        • Same for Cynthia’s comment that f told her at CW that none of the clues are associated with a structure, though the only thing the search community has heard him say is that the treasure is not associated with any structure, and this Q&A on MW:

          “Mr. Fenn, when you said not associated with any structure did that mean all 9 clues or just where the chest sits?

          Thanks, d

          Yes d, it means the treasure is not hidden in or about a structure. Google “structure” for more information.f”

          Certain searchers claiming f has said things to them that he has not said to the search community is troublesome. For f to then collaborate with those searchers on projects only exacerbates the situation — Is that searcher getting exclusive information? If that searcher claims f told her something, should she be believed?

          All info should be first hand from f.

        • Ken (in Texas) – I will agree that perhaps Cynthia’s statement on Forrest saying you have to read the book to figure out where the first clue is, isn’t completely accurate, ( he actually did mention way back when in an interview that you “have to read the book” when his interviewer asked about leaving clues in his memoir )
          – link below at about the 17:20 mark


          but I think there are better ways to bring a mis-statement to someone’s attention other than going into “attack” mode.

          I do not know Cynthia personally, but I believe her intensions with sharing her solve thoughts are pure and not meant to be misleading in any way. I appreciate her efforts and openness. She doesn’t have to share anything with us, but she does.

          That said, I always go back and check facts on what ANYONE says when it comes to Forrest’s statements about the Chase. Just to make sure they are indeed, correct. IMO, It’s part of a searcher’s responsibility. And there have been many people who have “unintentionally” mis-spoken his words, myself included.

          I am not meaning to say you should not bring attention to the matter above, It’s the proper thing to do, especially, as you mention, for the sake of new searchers. But just that maybe it can be done in a “nicer” manner.

          • Hi Geysergirl …

            Searchers who takes it upon themselves to be in routine verbal contact with Forrest need to take responsibility for what they tell the searcher “community”.

            Part of that responsibility amounts to putting Forrest’s most recent verbal comments in context to what he has said and written in the past. I gather that Cynthia did not do that.

            Otherwise, Tim would not have asked his question, and Dal would not have responded the way he did.

            So Cynthia’s omission causes confusion among others who do not have that “privileged”, everyday personal connection to Forrest.

            Forrest has a responsibility too. But he has been clear that anything substantive about the clues he will announce to everyone, not just those few searchers he counts as personal “friends”.

            Therefore, my interpretation of Cynthia’s comment is that it adds nothing to the conversation except confusion. And that’s something searchers do not need.

      • Tim

        TTOTC is like a pair of spectacles. You might be able to get by without them, depending on ability of sight, but once you put them on you will be glad you did so. You can see a lot clearer.

        Owning the book will cut down on unnecessary work, saving you time. Time is money.

        Its a good read too.

        • or… is it?

          let us theorize a hypothesis, let us say: “the chest is in Colorado”,

          with this hypothesis, is the book useful? maybe it is, maybe it isn’t…

          however this is not the question that should be asked, as the result of the book is that most searchers are searching M,Y and NM. so the question that should be asked is “why” are they there?

          now with that as a back story, imagine a criminal mastermind being questioned by police about a crime taking place, the mastermind continues to deny the crime, but gives antidotes during the interviews about his/her garden, how he/she likes planting flowers, how he/she likes digging up things and burying things in his/her garden…

          what do you suppose the odds of a “mastermind” doing that in an interview? while the “crime” is actually buried in their garden?

          • Writis

            The book gives clues and hints how to solve the poem. There is a volume of information that can be derived and made to good use. I agree that Forrest has done a great job keeping direct reference to the location of the tc out of the book, but to dismiss it as irrelevant could be a little naive.

            Every magic trick can be unravelled if you study it long enough, but not if you never watch the show.

            IMO the book is gold dust. As you crack the lines in the poem you go back to the book and you receive confirmation, in ways you had not noticed before. IMO.

          • When your garden is as large as Yellowstone, I think you can get away with it. IMHO

      • TimM, I remember the first time I heard her say that, I thought it also strange, I don’t think she is correct, I think she is referring to (read the book slowly) to find hints to “clues”, and she is inferring that this must be at least the first clue so that you can at least start.

        but not sure if anyone has asked her why she thinks this.

      • TimM – It might just be something as simple as needing the book because the poem is in the book.

        • MM – “The Thrill of the Chase”

          Q: “Are there clues in the TTOTC book?”
          A: “Yes, because the poem is in the book.”

          • Matt – I’m assuming that two of those are TFTW and OUAW? If so, would the third be another of Forrest’s works?

          • Matt – Well now you have me intrigued! My next guess would be books that Forrest has directly referenced like “Catcher in the Rye” and “Journal of a Trapper”. Is that getting into the right ballpark or am I still in the weeds?

          • Blex imo those books in Important Lit he names are euphemisms for other books. 3 he considered, 1 he ultimately went with. They are rare and obscure. Clues are mimicked in other books to better define what they are- or near on a map. The scenario in the chapter “long ride home” is not real- it’s copied from another book to point the searcher towards a particular region in Wyoming – and not YNP.

            If I come up short on my next botg, and feel like I’m satisfied that I rung out my area and can’t pull it off, then I may drop one book to Dal and he can scan it and release. Otherwise the few available would vanish. It would propel things here and I think hearing opinions of others might help me as well as others.

            I hesitate to blow up someone else’s edge they have worked hard for, so if someone out there doesn’t want me to, this is your fair warning, speak now ya’ll.

          • Matt – Sounds good! Forrest has definitely steered me into some good reading that I probably would not have encountered otherwise. I’ll be interested to see what you’ve found in the books you’re looking in once you are willing to share. In the meantime, good luck on your BOTG this season!

          • E=MC2?
            energy, mass, c2 is the speed of light squared, or multiplied by itself.

          • Seeker—-

            Yes. but this is Elbert Ainstein remember? His equations are a bit different than Albert’s were. 🙂

    • Thanks Dal.

      Very good video, Cynthia! Thanks for sharing that. You clocked some miles there. I look forward to the full Yankee Jim episode.

    • @5:15 in on that video is a really large duck if you use your imagination.

    • Enjoyed the video. Cynthia definitely put a lot of miles under her belt with all of the upper and west entrance closures to the park. Glad she was able to get in and look around in some of the areas, especially since the only thing that was open was the lower loop and east and south entrances.

    • Thanks for sharing, Dal. If I’m assuming correctly from the video, it sounded like Cynthia did this BOTG trip without a hoB in mind and was hoping something would catch her eye along the Firehole River. If she hoofed the whole length of it and couldn’t find anything, then I don’t feel as bad about not noticing anything myself when I drove that stretch a couple of summers ago. Interesting information that she found out about the pump house though, and also funny that she ran into another Chaser in the same area on the same day! It sounds like she’ll be posting at least one more video from her trip soon and I’ll look forward to watching that one too.

    • Hi! Just wanted to drop in and say I’ve posted my best-est solve over on Reddit, and I thought it’d be good to let everyone here know about it too. It’s a solve based in Nevada City, Montana. The town was basically built by Charles Bovey (and his wife Sue Ford Bovey) by moving cabins from various places within Montana and the surrounding states. I think Bovey is the “Montana old-timer” Forrest mentions in SB 207, which talks about moving a cabin. Anyways, there’s lots more including a picture of the “paddle” I found in the creek exactly where, IMO, the poem says it should be. Feel free to post any/all of this here if you feel like it’s worth sharing. You may edit at will:


      • Hi srch12345,
        I did it already many times but I’ll repeat it again – any solves posted here by searchers will be qualified as not-interested or just stupid. It’s just human psychology – my solve is genius but solves of other searchers are stupid. So, you should understand that nobody will read your solution without LOL reaction.
        All true searchers are non-conformists i.e. we are don’t care about solves from other searchers. You can publish these solves each day but real searchers will have their own BOTG.
        Well, I just wanted to say – have your BOTG and keep it for yourself. No one real searcher will go to your area. We all have own areas to search.

        • Andy S – Try imagine where we might be today as a civilisation, if we only ever read the book we wrote ourselves.

          Thanks for the read srch12345. I love learning.

          • Agreed. I don’t have the chest, so I don’t know. I posted this to the Reddit thread, but I’ll cross-post here too as it seems the “blueprint” for this solve isn’t clear:

            Here’s the thumbnail version — WWWH is the train stop for the Alder Gulch short-line train in Virginia City. You take the train (or drive) down to Nevada City. This is “take it in the canyon down, not far, but too far to walk”. Next is “put in below the home of Brown”, which is Brown’s Gulch. The “put in” takes you up into the Nevada City cemetary, which is “no place for the meek”. The back of the cemetary (to the north) on the left-hand side is “the end is ever drawing nigh”. Down in the draw there’s a creek. As you look up the creek you see 1.) heavy loads (in the form of powerlines) and “water high”, which is a reservoir that isn’t connected to the creek.

            From this point, I went down into the creek, where I found a “paddle”, a picture of which I’ve posted here. I think this paddle represents a “map” of sorts of the local topography, as illustrated when you use it that way it points towards an area just east of the cemetary in another draw. This area is just outside of the Nevada City museum property and is on Montana state land. If you zoom into that spot on Google Satellite View, it forms a picture of a “blaze”. This also appears to located right above “Wood” street. I didn’t post a zoomed in picture, here’s a link to the Google Maps satellite view I’m talking about:


            The “blaze” is outlined by the greenery and occupies the drainage area for the spring that comes down the draw. It looks more blaze-like as the season progresses into late summer/fall, you can see this by using the historical images from Google Earth for the same location.

            Or, that’s as far as I’ve been able to get, with no chest of course. I found two wire sculptures, one is the “paddle” and I’m not sure if the second is intended to be used for anything specific or not. It might be a “map” of the “blaze”, and show perhaps where you go in the “blaze” to find the chest.

          • Well, maybe kids have an advantage in the chase because they never read solutions and theories of other searchers…
            Also Forrest said:
            *Don’t be influenced by those who say they know, but don’t.f (Posted June 10th, 2016)

          • Andy…that’s not a very helpful citation to the quote.
            Please tell us WHERE the quote appeared…
            Typically, a link to the quote or to the video where the quote appeared is best.

          • I agree with Forrest, anyone’s solve is just another solve. I’ve personally worked at least 300 or so on paper and 20 or so via BOTG, for reference. This is still the best I’ve had, and the only one where I found something interesting in a place where the poem says it should be. That could be a total coincidence, but that sculpture wire isn’t easy to bend and I’ve never encountered anything like that in all the “trashy” places I’ve searched (i.e. places with a fair amount of random trash on the ground). That location isn’t even all that “trashy”, probably the most cluttered is the area south of West Yellowstone, just past the town into the pines. I’ve found at least three or four old car wrecks out there, including at least two in ditches.

            So, sure, be wary of random people’s solves. I can only speak from my own experience. Take it as you wish.

          • I like to think like this Andy S – “It is observed that in any great endeavor, it is not enough for a person to depend solely on himself.”

        • Andy S,

          Guess I’ll have to take the other side. In my world, I value the opportunity to understand how searchers perceive and interpret the poem, regardless of the outcome, though it’s always the same. No joy. Some are kind of rudimentary, but other solves are more well thought out and conceived. And a few are very intellectual.

          In that understanding I might actually learn something that I hadn’t considered in the past, or read/interpret a poem word or line differently because of the way a searcher highlighted it in their solve.

          I’m mostly self-taught when it comes to the chase, but there have been times when I asked myself why didn’t I think of that, or how the heck did I miss that? These are eye-openers and I appreciate them for what they are worth. Not a hint or clue answer, but a way of learning a different approach. What’s wrong with that?

          Ignorance is bliss, but I chose to learn and understanding other’s solves is a step in that direction.

          I’m not sure what category your solve will find itself but unless you produce the goods on your next BOTG, ‘genius’ will not be one of them.


          • I agree Pinatubocharlie. We learn from everything and everyone. To be selective just limits potential.

            Im not in favour of the word genius. I think there are only a select few people on the planet and in history who actually earn that medal, and they change the world. Us searchers are all equal. Some just think of things others don’t, but it makes them no smarter. I can teach my dog, but not my cat, yet my cat outsmarts my dog every time. Its just boils down to skill set.


      • srch12345 Thanks for sharing, glad I checked in today, good stuff. Someone will find the TC this year for sure! (IMO).

        • Srch12345,
          I was not able to read your entire solve on reddit for some reason. But what I read was interesting. Can you tell me how they moved buildings “intacted”, if you know.

          • I don’t know how they moved the buildings. More than a few made the move a couple of times, once to the fairgrounds location and a second time to Nevada City. Others were moved only once.

  1. Everytime I see that image of Dal (his email) that says “click on the image” – I notice the phantom face in the window nex to him.

    Makes me think of the Phantom of the Opera.
    Who is behind the mask?

    Lost my way for a bit…..
    Thanks Dal.

    • LOL, I have that scribbled right across my notepad on the front for some reason.

      I just thought they were both environmentalists, saving screen ink. Maybe its the angle of light, but I see a red bandanna.

        • I imagine his good eye will be squint square after looking out that frosty window for so long.

          • Frosty?
            Give him an inch and he thinks he’s a ruler.
            Doubt his rain will last too much longer.
            Fly away butterfly……

          • Same measure, cultured term. Now where is that garden string trimmer. He needs a haircut.

  2. It’s going to be okay. Get outdoors. Just did a non searching trip last week into Southern Colorado then back up into Wyoming and Montana. Able to see a few Grizzlies next to the road several miles from Moran Junction in Wyoming. Snows were a melting and rivers flowing. Stay safe in the Rockies this search season.

  3. So, Montana still has a 14 day quarantine for incoming travelers until June 1st.
    Did Cynthia stay in a motel or a tent for 14 days?
    If not, was there any trooper or MT Ranger resistance or question concerning her presence and quarantine, besides at the brown pump house?
    If not, we may head out very soon. I know Phase 2 will open most places in West Yellowstone while using PPE, be safe all!

    • if you pass through the state, then your quarantine (amount) is the time it takes you to pass through the state, so if it takes you two days, then your quarantine is two days…

      in Cynthia’s case, it probably was 3 to 6 hours, so her quarantine was 3 to 6 hrs..

      the whole “gas station stopping” thing is an inconvenient truth of the matter though.

      half a**d quarantine is, as half a**d quarantine does.

  4. Hello everyone,

    Yes the first clue is in the book, as it is the page when skippy left him on the side of the road!


    • Quite a detailed story, raises yellow flags for me. It does help describe the route they all took from Texas to West Yellowstone. Dad would know the spot. As a kid this would be through Wyoming and around W Yellowstone. Later on up around his sister’s place in Bozeman. WHAT IF… This was a last fishing trip with Dad. Where would that have been? He was on Forrest’s banco in Santa Fe, and ttotc included quite the homage.

  5. If your an East coast searcher, there are no travel restrictions between Pa and Colorado!

  6. the toe nail contest ( limiting words to 30 which was a good idea ) reminds me of back when Apple was first allowing “Apps” on iPhones from developers, they limited the name of the app to 256 characters, and the keywords to 100 characters. (keywords are extra words to search for the app in the App Store, along with using words in name of the app)

    Now think about that for all of a second, how long does it take you to realize a flaw in that logic? well Apple took several years to realize the flaw in that logic. (a few days or weeks after I pointed out the silliness of the matter)

    I still hold the world’s record in length of an App store name at 256 characters.. (actually the limit might of been 255, can’t remember right now) (I have the App turned off at the moment, for fear Apple might notice it and disavow any knowledge of such things) I turn it on every once in a while to amuse myself, I am easily amused I might add.

  7. Dal – Great video about Eric Sloane, shared by Donna over on Jenny’s Facebook page:


    Look @5:35 at the flat stone on the ground at Eric’s grave in Connecticut. Do you think that is how Forrest marked the hidey spot for the treasure, since that is where Forrest originally planned to take his life and leave his bones?

    • But Lisa,

      If it’s hidden under a stone as your question asks, then IMO that would render this quote from SB 78 false. “Second, I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.”

      I say false UNLESS that flat stone was painted yellow or another color. We then have a blaze, your quest ‘possibly’ to cease and all that. I am not saying it’s as simple as a yellow painted flat rock, but finding a painted rock where it wasn’t expected would certainly cause me to flip it over and see what’s underneath.

      Heck, it could even be a real bonafide trail marker that people take for granted and simply walk right on by without hardly even seeing.

      That being said, we all know that throughout his life Forrest has relished in taking risks and living on the edge. Sometimes intentionally doing so and other times the ‘edge’ was forced upon him.

      Assuming the chest is ‘hidden’ in plain sight as SB 78 suggests to me, I’m quickly beginning to think the chest was placed on edge with one side barely exposed at the surface. So instead of looking for a 10″x10″ box, we might be looking for a 5″x10″ rectangle which is somewhat easier to camouflage.

      I have other reasons supporting this idea but would rather not share at this time.

      Take care………..Pinatubocharlie

      • I found 2 painted rocks where neither was expected. I’m not assuming that FF painted both of them.

    • Wow, I have become a big Eric Sloane admirer. Thanks for posting. I hope to visit that place someday soon. You have to love the obsessed commentary from historians, as if he was a deity. I’m sure Eric would find that humorous.

      • Dal – Me, too.

        I am imagining Forrest’s rainbow-shaped epitaph, from the Epilogue in TTOTC, carved on a similar flat stone, to mark the hidey spot.

        FYI that my fly fishing librarian friend received her copy of TTOTC last week. So now I can study those pictures and captions again. Like, where is the Water Hole? And, Highway Hole? Still think that one might be the turnout at Cable Car Run, where I think Forrest ‘put in’ with his dingy. And which also might be across from the right turn Marvin Fenn may have made, to go half a mile down an old road, to park and pack the family trailer each Winter.

  8. I think Forrest not telling us how many diamonds are in the tc is a clue.

    Just saying.


    • Definitely have to think that the amount of coins in the chest is a hint. He’s kept that number pretty consistent at 265. Why remember it, right?

      • Well the 265th day of the year is f’s birthday, so not easily forgotten.

        Just saying, I think the missing count on diamonds is a huge clue. A hidden clue.

          • My mistake there, I thought it was the 22nd September. I only read it once many months ago. Whats 30 days between friends.

      • He also once said there were 265 rubies, but Forrest has been inconsistent or vague about that ruby count. At various times he has said there are: 254, 265, lots of, hundreds of, a number of, about 280, 200 something, 260 some, and “I think 270.” So it’s striking comparing his consistency on the number of gold coins vs. his wide variance on the number of rubies.

        • I just stick to the numbers written on this site and MW. I have seen discrepancies, but to include can just compound confusion.

        • 240 or 285 my guesses.

          Anyhoo in my best Ronald Reagan voice… “Mr. Polisbachov, tear down that wall.”

          And in other news, just read about banned treasure hunter. So, guess I’ll stay home for now.

        • Agreed Zap. It really doesn’t matter unless your solve has a reference to it. I see 265 coins as a hint because I have another couple hints that reference 265.
          The point of, always a reference to his stories only means something if that reference is found. But you are right, just the consistency of the gold coins compared to most anything is striking. He could easily just kept it at “hundreds”, means the same thing, unless it doesn’t.
          It’s like, rainbow, two people can keep a secret, and that there are 9 clues, a lot of mini puzzles to answer in the chase.

    • Is there any evidence that there are diamonds in the chest independent of the dozens that are on the dragon coat bracelet?

        • I once asked someone if they could write good . I think better than I could imagine .

      • Zap-
        Evidence is not perfect but it appears as though there is at least one vial that contains small, loose diamonds and emeralds in the photo of the chest with the lid open.

        There are several quotes about diamonds in Forrest’s repertoire of diamond quotes that imply “loose” diamonds…
        Like this one from the Moby Dicken’s interview-
        “In this chest I put hundreds of rubies. There are two beautiful Ceylon sapphires. There are eight emeralds, lots of little diamonds, Pre Colombian wakas, 2,000-year-old bracelets and a tirana and sinew necklace that dates probably 2,500 years old. The finishes on the necklace are made out of quartz crystal and carnelian and semi-precious stones.  I told myself I wanted it to be visual enough so that when a person found the treasure chest and opened it for the first time, they would just lean back and start laughing. I showed the chest to a number of people in Santa Fe and that’s what they all did. I invite you to go look for the treasure chest.”
        Transcript of that video is here:

        Have you looked at Matt’s video (Smell the Sunshine) about the contents of the chest? His analysis is pretty thorough.

  9. WOW! So this thread is filling up quickly! Seems like I have some catching up to do! Is there a way to request notifications for a new thread without having to make an initial post Dal? If so please let me know how. Thank you.


  10. Sidetracked from earlier post, one other thing I need to get off… my chest lol… is the craving of knowledge is now greater than the desire to go BOTG. Regardless of knowing everything, when that flag waves, I’m gone!

    I’ve been re-examining dead end rabbit holes for the past 2 weeks & now am finding a secret underground tunnel connecting many of the rabbit holes. Confirmation bias or safer at home insanity… the jury’s still out.

    Call me crazy, but I strongly believe Forrest will release another book detailing all of the “coincidental connections” once the tc is discovered. along with “intentional innuendoes” too. And subliminal surprises!

    Hmm… my head is clear again.

    • Oh of course he will release all the connections. Without doubt. So the finder needs to have his ducks in a row and lost his solve before the actual confirmation of the chest being found to prove the finders solve how he/she proved how they found it and what imaginary theories brought them to that conclusion

      • I disagree, if a person finds the chest he/she has nothing too prove. The chest is evidence that they came to most of the correct conclusions in solving the poem. How they got there is irrelevant because there’s no legal requirement to prove How. The end result is they crossed the line first. Of course a comparison of theories and Whit’s with Forrest would make a nice book. All IMO

        • So if a friend wanted to show you something but along the way you went down another path . Just to return and go the route your friend took just to come across the treasure . Now with what your saying is you would be the finder because you came home with it right ?

  11. Seeker: the latest Mysterious Writings Q&A should interest you:

    “Forrest, since there are 24 poem lines and 24 hours in a day, does the poem have something to do with time, even if it is metaphorical? Martha Pemegano”

    FF: “No Martha, it does not. You are overcooking the poem. f”


    Sure sounds like Forrest is telling us that the poem has nothing to do with time. Doesn’t that seem to kill theories that suggest one or more of the nine clues to the treasure’s location are only discoverable on a particular day of the year or a particular time of day (e.g. solar alignment, shadows, etc.)?

    As a side note, searcher “Anna Graham” (who is understandably attuned to such things) pointed out on THOR that “Martha Pemegano” is a straight anagram of “Anagram the poem.” This person says they’ve been in the Chase for 3 years, made their first post to Jenny’s today, posed this question, asked Jenny to forward it to Forrest, and got a reply — all in the same day.

    • Zap,

      Interesting find. I have always been against time dependency or alignment dependency because alignments certainly change over time. SO such theories do not pass the test of time notion. 1,000 years from now alignments will be much different than they are today.

      Also, nothing in the poem itself suggests an element of time, whether within a given day or during a particular eon. I realize individual words can have time related components (such as halt) but assuming such components are the basis of their use I think is misplaced.

      There is always a question about tense but, generally speaking, the tenses primarily align with the subject to which they refer. FF uses past tense mostly in referring to himself and present tense when referring to the searcher. Yes, there is room for argument, but why bickering over non consequential ideologies?

      As everyone well knows, I am of the “what is most likely” school of thought. It is not likely that time is a factor. Otherwise why not provide the deadline and give us all a countdown? Okay. I think that is enough for now.

      All IMO.


      • Ann,

        Maybe not a certain time of the day, but a time of the year. That’s if where warm waters halt has anything to do with the yearly snowmelt runoff. A place where warm waters halt most of the year from summer through winter, but not in spring when snowmelt causes the overflow. Probably why it shouldn’t be done in Spring Break.

        Somewhat like the little freshwater lake in Mexico Beach:

        • Oz10,

          I am opposed to years for the same reasons I am opposed to days. Snow melt off will certainly change as the climate changes and in 1,000 years the Rockies may be nothing more than sand dunes in a dessert. Drastic I know, but illustrates the point.

          Obviously time of the year plays a role in searchers’ abilities to search safely. But does it change the location of the chest? No. Does it change how we are to get there? No. The poem doesn’t suggest we will only be able to find the chest in US summers.

          I think I will stick to geography and a description of the Chase in terms of what I think the poem is trying to tell us. As an additional note I will mention the following……

          Geography tends to take large quantities of time to change beyond the point of recognition (with the usual exceptions obviously). I imagine that is why FF indicates knowledge f geography in the Rockies as being useful. That’s also why I imagine the clues literally describe to us what FF saw geographically as he made his way to hide the chest.

          Imagine if FF had hid the chest at the edge of the artic ice shelf! We would either be looking in the ocean or at least several miles away from where the chest would have been back in 2009-2010. For these reasons, I do not believe the path of the Chase is dependent on yearly seasonal changes, except for travel safety concerns.

          All IMO.


          • PS-

            One other note to those following any of my posts, especially perhaps Lisa with whom I have been exchanging ideas. I find FF’s poem reminiscent of the way old Native Americans would describe land. They had an invaluable way of talking about that which they loved, which I find present in a geography based description in FF’s poem. Just thought I’d put it out there.

            All IMO.


          • Ann – Ooooh! Now I am imagining Sacagawea asking for directions, and getting a response, back in the Lewis and Clark Expedition days…

          • Lisa,

            Wasn’t Sacagawea the one giving directions…..(insert thinking emoji here)…..love your thoughts! 🙂


          • Ann – I was referring to when Sacagawea met her brother, the Shoshone Chief:

            Cameahwait was the brother of Sacagawea, and a Shoshone chief. … Cameahwait met Meriwether Lewis and three other members of the Lewis and Clark Expedition on August 13, 1805. He then accompanied Lewis across the Lemhi Pass to meet Clark. Sacagawea was with Clark’s party and recognized Cameahwait as her brother.

      • Ya but most likely someone would not hide gold right ? But if they did it’s probably stolen right ?
        I have to say the most likely answer is not the likely answer to this chase. All in my opinion

        • Shadow runner,

          I suppose that depends on what the most likely answer is and what the likely answer to the Chase is. They may or may not be one n the same. All IMO.


    • Zap,

      Taps has 24 notes as well.
      The song uses only four different notes and 24 notes in total.

      Just a 24 thing I’m throwing out there.


    • This in itself can be a brain ache Zap. Takes time to cook (Lisa), time to travel, time to tell, tempo in music (ByGeorge), and all this done past midnight, in a chronological arena.

      Ya gotta love this guy.

    • Zap,

      Well that just sucks…
      There he goes again killing another perfect solution.

      By the way. I didn’t see a date on when that Q&A came out… Do you know?

      • Lisa – Wow, that’s a really neat poem that I had never heard of before! Every line is an anagram of the poem’s title.
        Talk about a great combination of both imagination and hard work! Brilliant!

      • Cool poem.

        I proffer a second title like Kurt Vonnegut used to do with some of his book titles, like “Goodbye Blue Monday” (by Muset):

        Washington Crossing The Delaware = Leading Congress Ashore With Want

      • Thanks for that link, Lisa — wow, I’d never seen that sonnet before. It’s amazing that the author managed 15 different scramblings and still maintained relevance to the subject!

        • Zap – You are welcome! I think the link said the author was a cryptologist. Always thinking about that root word ‘crypt’, as I read Forrest’s Poem…

          I like that the one about George Washington involved him crossing a very cold river for the win! Nice of that author to create a poem that also fits my solve…

    • Wow, time and metaphorical in the question covers a lot of ground. Hence, straight forward, no subterfuge, try and simplify, ect. But riches new and old in the back of minds may subconsciously, always have us tracking times. g

    • Zap, that was a good one, rare when he makes definitive answers like that.

      course he did do the same thing about “riddles” and “puzzles” 🙂

    • Regarding Forrest’s previously referenced comment about “overcooking the poem”, it sounds to me like Martha had a piping hot dish full of thyme, but what we are looking for requires an effort that will be worth the cold. If thyme is making things too hot, freeze it.

      In my opinion only, of course.

  12. Holy moly, now I remember why I stay off the forums! TimM said in his comment: “Cynthia said in the video that Forrest stated that you have to read the book to figure out where the first clue is.” You can’t even quote ME right! I said ” Forrest said you have to read the book to LEARN where the first clue is.” Big difference between LEARNING where the first clue is and “figuring out” where the first clue is. I should just let you continue to be a …. but for the benefit of the nice people who I used to communicate with on this blog, here is the interview: EIS Radio 3/14/2014 near the 49:34 minute mark. And by the way, I plan to lead my next video with this particular quote from Forrest where you ALL can hear it said by the man himself. I’ve used it before in previous videos too. I am totally flabbergasted by some of the negative comments, and delighted with the ones who appreciate the effort I put in to my work.

      • BigOnus said: “Forrest says that the treasure will be found by someone who has read the book”.

        Yes, that’s true. But that’s old news. A long time ago Forrest said there are clues in the book BECAUSE the poem is in the book.

        Thus, I don’t see anything new being revealed lately that we didn’t already know.

        Forrest has also said that if he gives out any new information, he will give it out to everyone.

        Tim’s question/comment way upthread is thus valid; he was merely asking for clarification, as acknowledged by Dal. Asking for clarification is a normal function of any forum.

        For a searcher to say that he or she stays away from the forum, but gleefully seeks out personal contact with Forrest Fenn is in my opinion >>> elitist.

        Ken (in Texas)

        • Ken

          We get a flat tire and check the trunk. No jack. We manage to change that tire with all kinds of crazy improvisations, extra work and loss of time. Moral – carry a jack.

          The book will not harm your efforts.

          Cynthia is lovely and receives no information reward for her efforts, IMO. We all watch her videos and as a result we are often rewarded ourselves by the hard work she puts in. She delivers messages. If everyone was invited to the party then Mr Fenn would have to hire football stadiums. People like Cynthia put in a lot of effort and Forrest recognises this, so gives them air time. I would rather have it than not, just like the book.

          Now, back to TTOTC I go……..


          • Yes, BigOnus, a lot of searchers need all the help they can get, as they have seemingly given up on the poem.

            I would argue that all that extra… stuff … (outside the poem) complicates searcher efforts and can lead to countless rabbit holes. In the film “The Paper Chase”, the good professor refers to students having >>> “a head full of mush” … analogous to some treasure hunters I would say.

            Good luck trying to find those “hints” in TTOTC. 🙂

          • The poem and the book are one body Ken. I cannot imagine f went to all that trouble of blending the two and the book being irrelevant. Especially when confirms that it will aid the searcher in solving the poem.

            I will do my best in finding the hints, but I imagine we might need a little more than luck. 😉 . But in any case, good luck to you also sir!

      • BigO,

        I sure hope OUAW-Revised helps! I just got my copy today. My meld is complete. Though, I guess it might help if I read them.

        All this talk of bears and ducks and frogs and Cynthia can get her butt away from my area! Uhh, well, that’s what my wife said anyway. Keep up the good work Cynthia! But there’s no need to post a video or anything about that Slippery Sliding Yankee Joe Jimbo Brown thingamajig solve. Don’t that woman have some toilet paper to deliver? Keep her busy Forrest! I’m preparing for the worst.

        I’ve been preparing all week. I even bought me a super sizer of that there preparation-H. I is prepared! Just a smidgen and I’m all puckered up for NPW…National Preparedness Week!

        It’s also a more natural look for the duck-lip selfies.


        • I imagine the OUAW-Revised will be worth the read. Exactly the right timing if you are due out on a run. I always had the two books, but upon till recently connected them differently. Seem to go together beautifully in the end.

          Yes, saddlesores can be a funny one. You have to laugh though, especially watching the sand work out what up means and your dog grazes its chin. Quacking up with chuckles.

          Keep safe! Peace!

    • ….” I said ” Forrest said you have to read the book to LEARN where the first clue is.” Big difference between LEARNING where the first clue is and “figuring out” where the first clue is.”

      Imo, I’m not so sure that there’s a big difference between learning where the first clue is and figuring out where the first clue is.

      • There are many WWsH…

        Learning where the right one is seems very important vs. figuring out what it is.

        Example; if it’s a lake… Which l / where?

        Something got searchers to this place yet they didn’t seem to know they solved, indicated, mentioned, deciphered the clue(s).

        What got them to the correct location?

      • Fundamental Design – Maybe there is a hint about ‘learn’ in “Jump Starting the Learning Curve” in TTOTC? About the first clue? And, where to begin?

        • Seeker – Reminder: the Baker’S Hole interpretive sign is entitled, “A Great Place to Raise Small Fry”, and is a place where ‘people’ can ‘learn’ about how Big Browns and Rainbows come up from their ‘home’ in Hebgen Lake in Fall/Spring to spawn. Travelling all the way up my ‘IT’ as the ‘Madison River’, to my WWWH in the Poem at Madison Junction.

          Don’t fish travel in ‘schools’? Love that pic and caption in TTOTC of all those probably spawning trout at Forrest’s ‘secret hole’.


    • I’ve said several times before that I think Cynthia is a reliable source of information, But in this case, again I will say that I think Cynthia is incorrect in her interpretation of this quote. ff may very well mean to read the book to learn about the first clue…

      but in the quote, he says to look for hints in the book to help with the clues.. then after a long pause, and another thought about that “best advice he can give”, he says: you have to find out … to learn where the first clue is.

      as a secondary opinion, I believe he expressed two thoughts from a (package/wallet) of ‘standard’ thoughts/quotes together… and that her interpretation is inferring these two ‘standards’ together.

      she very well could be more correct than my interpretation.

      and that is the danger/advantage we all share as humans, interpretations as we see it. Some of us will be eaten by lions, and some will get away by a split second interpretation of a current situation, and the (higher hand as it were) could care less, as long as there is a balance there, that there is the opportunity for both outcomes.

      some times it appears that that (higher hand) reaches in and tweaks the results… and we get things like Forrest though…

      I am not sure what the purpose is there, only that if you try to imagine standing outside looking in, (then just like Forrest has also expressed), it feels like something reached in and tweaked the results, possibly just for the amusement of (everyone) looking (in) on the same (test tube)

      in case (they) are reading… cool tweak.

    • Cynthia – I think the people on the forum are really splitting hairs here and I don’t like the negative tones either.

      However, I did just listen to the portion of the interview that you mentioned above, and Forrest does not specifically talk about needing the book to solve the first clue. He does say that the book can help in figuring out the clues in general; just not specifically the first clue. He then says that the clues get progressively easier after solving the first clue. Like I said, it’s splitting hairs and I don’t think that it makes much of a difference. After all, the first clue is one of the clues, isn’t it? Here’s the link to that interview for anyone interested: http://www.eisradio.org/item/003/

      I don’t see a problem with Cynthia’s interpretation of what Forrest said. I enjoy your YNP and Taos videos very much, Cynthia. Keep up the good work!

    • Thanks for all your input and efforts Cynthia. I enjoy what you do and I’m sure that many searchers feel a bit more connected to Forrest Fenn through your efforts to share your interactions with him.
      For those who feel differently about this subject… boo hoo… cry me a river. Sounds a bit insecure to me and certainly not worth commenting more about it… nor losing sleep over it.
      That said and being the same old song and dance… Try telling the same story to 10 people and then have them write it down on paper. Be prepared to read 10 different stories. It’s human nature for folks to hear what they want and not necessarily the actual facts. In this Chase it seems that is the norm. Have a nice day all and stay healthy. And thanks to Dal for the best Fenn blog in existence…

    • Cynthia, Anyone tuning into your content and Dal’s content should recognize logic, and thoughtful effort to be as accurate as possible with information that may help others. However, folks tend to hear and see what they want to hear and see. Some people simply love to argue/debate…that’s why they engage.

      Managing relevant content and blogger comments would feel like herding rogue cats IMO. Hat’s off to you guys for doing it well.

  13. I think that wwwh is not far, nm has imo two meanings- new and old to me would be new mexico- the first stanza tells you that – the treasure is in nm in an old pit where he dug a new hole to hide the treasure chest. so the treasure chest is not far but to far to walk – and its in an old pit in a new hole he dug to hide the TC

  14. if the two omegas are clues – meaning what the first omega is , is what you will be looking for at the end. in this case if you look if you look at ff omegas are not far apart , so from one omega to another its not far but to far to walk

    • Frank – I’ve said earlier that I thought the double omega represented Forrest’s own two endings: the ending that he faced when he was first diagnosed with terminal cancer, and the ending that lays ahead somewhere in his future that he knows he will eventually need to face.

      However, after watching the latest Smell the Sunshine video on YouTube, I have to say that he offers up another compelling interpretation of what the double omegas mean as related to the death of his older friend Eric Sloane who passed before him. He justifies this idea by pointing out that Forrest’s first use of the double omega was at the end of a poem that he wrote for Eric after his passing (which I assume to be true). Check it out at about the 13:00 minute mark here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXFzMMPVCvs

      I wouldn’t dismiss the double omega as being a clue to finding the treasure, but I do think that if you don’t let it take a backseat with respect to the poem, you’re setting yourself up to see double omegas EVERYWHERE.

      • Frank and Blex,

        It is in my findings that double omegas play a part along the layout of the poems clues.
        And yes, Eric Sloane does mix in my findings too.

        Good luck,

        • The beginning is the end, and to arrive back to see the place for the first time. ( Begin it WHERE, I can keep my secret WHERE. I M O

        • Bur and Blex- I have always thought that the ,bottom of the open part of the omega is where he dug the hole to hide the treasure chest ,and the round part is the pit where he went in there a lone. thanks for your reply nice talking to you —- frank

  15. Dal – Posted by Blue Ribbon Flies, the shop formerly owned by Craig Matthews:


    Let’s play, Name That Fish! Anyone?

    Getting primed for an epic fly fishing adventure, after June 1. Because that is when Forrest said to head out. Maybe we will do some BOTG/BITW searches for the treasure, also…

    • Hello Lisa. Due to the white tips on the fins, I believe it to be a Cut bow. Good luck with your epic fly fishing adventure!

      • I didn’t ever hear of cut now, just thought cutthroat. Must be a subspecies? Looks like a tasty not yet batteredor breaded

      • pdenver – I guessed the same Cutbow answer on that fly shop’s Facebook site. But then I saw a pic of a native Yellowstone Cutthroat trout (that is different from the native Westslope Cutthroat trout). My fly fishing librarian friend had a book with illustrations of many types of trout in it. Now I think that’s the one. It lives in the tributaries to Yellowstone Lake.

        Hey! Who won the Toe to Toe contest, anyway?

      • BigOnus – Was there a dwarf named, Hungry? If not, there should have been. That guy just got a mouthful of imitation fly. On a Double Nymph rig.

        Did you know the hybrid of Westslope Cutthroat trout and Rainbow trout is born sterile? That would make that guy, Grumpy, for sure. That is also why fish management folks are working to keep non-native Romeo Rainbow away from native Juliet Cuttroat. Mr. Shakespeare would understand.

  16. Cynthia & Dal,

    Many thanks to you both for your kindness to share your BOG adventures & search related
    no-nonsense logic. I appreciate your efforts and the time it takes to Record a video, narrate and think through a solution – all for others.

    Happy trails! I appreciate you.

    I was raised by in Montana by parents who loved all seasons in the great outdoors. Spent many days camping/fishing/exploring along the Gallatin & Madison Rivers.

    Because of that, my first 5 years on TTOTC were spent with confirmation bias searching SW Montana. Because my spouse is an attorney who specializes in land law, I was able to have him research what type of property we could lawfully KEEP treasure trove. For what it’s worth, In his opinion, Forest Service land made the best legal scenario…if ff followed the advice of his lawyer.
    Of course, ff is a maverick and anyone could recover the chest and not tell if found on other types of property.

    Forrest stated at MW He considered mudslides, earthquakes, floods etc. when hiding the chest. It’s my personal opinion that Montana has far too many earthquakes for the chest to be located in YP, or the perimeter of Yellowstone including Hebgen Lake, upper Madison River, and Red Canyon areas. One earthquake in this area could completely bury the treasure chest.


    • 42-
      Thanks for the compliment…
      The legal opinion is certainly welcome.
      We’ve had very few, if any, opinions about that issue from actual lawyers…

      I interpret Forrest’s remark about “considering” things like earthquakes and mudslides differently. I don’t believe that he was saying he considered them as problems and ruled out hiding spots where they could occur…which appears to be what your interpretation suggests.

      I am aware of three places where Forrest talked about those kinds of geological events and I believe he was saying that he considered them and understood that the chest could very well be effected by those kinds of events…

      Consider this quote:
      Curious about the long-term fate of both the chest and the quest, I asked Fenn whether the clues in the poem will also withstand the test of time. “I am guessing the clues will stand for centuries. That was one of my basic premises, but the treasure chest will fall victim to geological phenomena just like everything else. Who can predict earthquakes, floods, mudslides, fires, tornadoes and other factors?” Fenn says.

      or this quote:
      Q. How do you know that the treasure is going to be safe and secure where it is hidden for the next 1000 years and somebody might not build a bridge or dig or some natural event might occur that might expose it?
      A. That is always possible; forest fires, earthquakes, mudslides, floods… what you see is what you get, we have no control over that, but I think the aura of it will always be there. It is not likely, but it certainly could happen. (43:20)
      (4/17/13 – Collected Works Bookstore Event)

      and finally this quote…which is the strangest of the three…but credit for it’s strangeness belongs to the reporter…not Forrest…
      In choosing the location, Fenn himself told me he was thinking “10,000 years down the road … I considered mudslides, forest fires, earthquakes, and floods.” And yet he maintains that the treasure is readily accessible to him, even today. “I could go right there.”

      • Dal, thanks for posting the addition geographical disaster related quotes by ff.

        I find it interesting that interpretation is everything in finding that elusive chest. We could each have the same Factual data, but interpret differently than one another and Forrest. Hence no one has the goods. As much as I wanted to continue searching SW MT,
        After 8 years Ive come to a personal opinion that Forrest placed it in NM – for 2 reasons…
        1. Close to home
        2. The right climate to preserve contents of chest and a geographical location with proven longevity. (Oldest standing home in the US, oldest continuously inhabited Pueblo, in tact ancient ruins…
        of the 4 states NM’s climate and lack of natural disasters gives the chest & contents a chance at lying in peace the longest.

        I asked myself, why would ff place his most cherished Tyrona Sinu necklace in an open box where a bear could topple and damage it? Would he Place the chest where common Montana earthquakes could swalllow it into a ravine? I don’t think so. Maybe he would place coins he doesn’t care much about into that scenario? But not the priceless pieces he stewards.

        In fact, I’ve wondered if he may have hidden a “twin chest” minus the trove & gold contents – with his turquoise bracelet and instructions to recover all – on Forest service land as a geo-cache.

        When the poem is left justified into a grid, the word twin sits directly above the word chest.

        • Worrying about the earthquake threat in Montana is like worrying about tornadoes on the San Andreas fault or hurricanes at Mount St. Helens. There is no sensible reason to abandon any of the four states based on potential threats from Mother Nature, nor reason to favor any of the others based on a lower perceived threat from Her.

          • Zap, I wouldn’t abandon any state,
            but personally I would abandon known areas of states with recurrent mudslides, flooding, or major earthquakes…unless of course Forrest’s goal was for the chest to be swept away by the next flood, etc.

    • 42 – Thank you for that Forest Service land location confirmation for a best case legal scenario for keeping the treasure trove. Since my hidey spot is on land that fits that description. Kinda always thought that might be the case…

      Guess I will have to play that game of Ringer with Forrest, so he can win the treasure back from me with his ‘Aggies’. Because Queen Elizabeth I’s Act of Trover says it would be ‘finders keepers, losers weepers’, if the treasure is there, and I make it mine.

      • You’re welcome Lisa. He spent several days researching trove law, Forest service geocaching laws, tax law, national park regulations BLM laws. It was my Valentines gift 8 years ago.

        Glad it works with your solution. (Of course anyone could find it and walk away quietly from any type of land).

    • 42, that is a case of putting the cart before the horse.

      as ff said the place was special to him before thoughts of a treasure. He certainly didn’t consult a lawyer on what was special to him as he sat down there. also that he was going to make that “place” work, what ever it took to do that.

      he also didn’t consult a lawyer on the “best” place to put it, he consulted on what would happen in 20 or 40 scenarios, including forest service land and every other kind of land in-between.

      also the part about too many earthquakes… if true and they produced such things as floods/ mudslides and such (more than normal), that would mean that the area would be plainly marked with floods and landslides and such, which it is… so if another quake came along, you pretty much know what area would slide, and which would not (for the case of lots of quakes). an area unaffected probably isn’t going to have a slide since if as you put it, if there were lots of earthquakes it would of slid already… and being a slide already, most likely not too special for Forrest of any age, especially 10 yrs ago…. so problem solved there.

      I think the worry around that area about earthquakes pales in comparison to super volcanos… (pesky super volcanos) of course even if he left the treasure in toledo, it would end up with inches of volcanic ash covering its “home” in that case, the world would be starving. The people that are left, finding themselves in a 2yr year round winter wondering how we can get global warming kick started again, no one would be looking for a box of gold.

      now for some cheery news: somebody went to a beach somewhere… other people complained about it. I feel better now.

    • 42 – Forrest states that he always knew the location, so it was never a choice. The chase would not have worked by design otherwise.

      IMO, he sought legal council because he knew there to be potential ownership issues (that is why we know it is not on his own private land). He covered every potential scenario, so as not to give anything away when talking to his lawyers.

      If we accept the location chose him, then mother nature will always be an issue.

      My belief is that (I have said this before) the tc belongs to Forrest or representative, just like a lost purse in the park still belongs to the person who lost it. You would return it the same way. If that person gifts you the purse as reward, then it is yours my friend.


      • Writis & bigOnus,

        I agree with what you both stated.

        However, interpretation is everything in regards to what forrest has said…

        Consider “Your destination is small but it’s location is huge.f” Forrest Fenn


        “THE PLACE” or LOCATION or DESTINATION can be interpreted to mean many things from General area to exact spot (ie brown chunk of rock with a NA petroglyph; or Specific bend of the Madison River…vs generalized area such as Yellowstone Park or Pecos River Canyon in the state of New Mexico.

        For instance, if the Gallatin Canyon, Montana was FF’s favorite place ‘he considered his own’ after walking/fishing 90 miles as a kid, he could have consulted a lawyer about which type of property and then determined where he would place the chest in the Gallatin Canyon.

        Has anyone researched quotes when forrest uses the word SPOT? The context surrounding his use of that word could be very interesting, as it connotes more specificity of exact location vs broad area.

        PLACE definition
        An area with definite or indefinite boundaries; a portion of space.

        DESTINATION definition
        The place to which one is going or directed.

        A place where something is or could be located; a site.
        A site away from a studio at which part or all of a movie is shot.
        A tract of land that has been surveyed and marked off.

        A mark on a surface differing sharply in color from its surroundings.
        A stain or blot.
        A small area.
        A location or position.
        A point of interest.

        All Definitions from wordnik.com

        • By the way, it’s been my strong opinion that FF’s use of the word “Location” is an indicator of The chest being placed “A tract of land that has been surveyed and marked off” which narrows the search area considerably. I believe the chest will be found on section on the border of township sections 32/33…where warm water halts at freezing point.

          • No way could THAT be possible –
            Need to call my IT man.
            I’ve been hacked.
            So much for security – fire em all.

        • Forrest described where he his the treasure as a special “place.” [see place definitions I listed in the above comment].

          Q) Has the location you have chosen for the treasure always had a special meaning to you, or did it become a special place later in life?
          Forrest’s A) Well Andy, “always” is a long time. I will just say that where I hid the treasure is a very special place to me and I really don’t want to elaborate on that.


        • 42 – Re: ‘Spot’:

          “How deep is a hole?”f

          As per Dal, and fur trappers, back in the day, a ‘hole’ is an area. For fly fishing and beaver trapping. The Burnt Hole, where Hebgen Lake is now, was huge. My ‘location’, technically. But my ‘destination’ at my hidey ‘spot’ at Baker’S Hole is small.

          Thanks for your excellent analysis. I say, Check, Check, Check in response. All my ‘i•S’ dotted and my ‘t•S’ crossed.

          • Lisa, or anyone else who might know…. Does the name “Burnt Hole” identify more than one area in the Yellowstone area?

            The Notes section of my copy of Journal of a Trapper identifies a different area than Hebgen Lake.

          • I am not sure one has an entire grasp and gist of what:

            “it’s hard to find, deliberately hard to find”.. means,

            if a person is looking at or near “Baker’s hole”/Hebgen lake ‘destination’ area… imo.

            nor a grasp on the length of time a skeleton/set of bones would go unnoticed in such an area.

            a good way to put it is:
            There are entire aircraft wreckage spots that went ‘undiscovered’ for years and decades in the Rocky mountains. (an example of which was one with a go pro like camera attached to the strut found years later and showed to all pilots ever taking a flight safety course in the Rockies)

            An aircraft making an unfortunate nose first contact with the beautiful Rockies near Baker’s hole would go all of about 30 seconds unnoticed. one can make calculations of size comparisons to bones, and come up with a figure far short of 500 years, 1000 years etc… imo

          • OS2 – I have posted several old explorer maps and relayed the map in Aubrey Haines’s version of “Journal of a Trapper” shows the Burnt Hole is in the wide Madison River valley, where Hebgen Lake is today. There is no question in my mind.

          • Writis – In my BOTG/BITW experience, with a Hebgen Lake Ranger District guy watching, and Larry the Baker’s Hole Campground manager having been consulted,…no one had purposefully crossed the Madison River, where we did, back on Memorial Day Weekend of 2019. In fact, Larry said he though my whole search area over there was inside YNP. Which it is not. The Ranger verified my proposed boundaries for float tube or boat access. And Larry said he stood corrected, later.

            If an Elk carcass was at my hidey spot, no one would see or smell it, unless they ventured into the thick Hazel and Willow thickets surrounding my open search area. Hidden in plain sight, but not. Can’t see the treasure from Google Earth, either. And I don’t think they allow drones over that area, either, because of the YNP boundary and the KWYS airport flight path.

          • Hey Lisa!

            This is sort of off topic, but I was wondering if you ever checked out those photo spheres on GE at the Popo Agie Falls? I am not suggesting anything about the Chase by suggesting checking them out. But I think you will like what you find in one of them for the same reasons I like what I found! It should give you a good laugh and maybe as light pause. In act everyone is encouraged to check them out! They are not mine, btw, so I am not self promoting here. Just an interesting find is all.

            All IMO.


        • Theres one thing for certain about the location, The old pirate is sure keeping tight lipped lol.

    • 42 – Thank you for that information. Could you elaborate on why Forest Service land would be the best legal scenario?

      • Blex, I’ll try to reiterate the basics of what I remember. Although its been 8 years, and I am not a lawyer. If memory serves correctly we first ruled out types of land where laws, regulations and precedent cases were prohibitive in claiming treasure, treasure trove including National Parks, BLM, Indian Reservations, private property, etc. When looking at Forrest service land geocaching and gold prospecting were legal, as well as a couple of precedent laws on Unclaimed money and valuables. Keep in mind treasure trove law was formulated in Great Britain where ancient troves are more often discovered than on US property. Precedent cases here are few. (All From my 8 yr old recollection and not certain how accurate.) my spouse would have to research again for accuracy and is too busy with work.

        • The trouble is, we aren’t really talking “trove” law here since the owner is known, and anyone finding the treasure will almost certainly have done so by design, not accident. It’s more like misplaced property.

          • I agree Zaphod. Keep in mind we researched this 8 years ago before forrest went public with his legal comments. His treasure chest is in a different category of well publicized treasure left for the finder with a poem giving title. We couldn’t find a similar case. My husband did me a favor doing the legal research so that I could eliminate areas with legal red tape that I wouldn’t search for those reasons.. No one else need pay any attention now that forrest made a statement about legalities.

          • Maybe not mis placed but best placed for trust is worth more than gold

        • 42 – Thank you; that’s interesting to know. It makes you wonder if that was a possible factor in Forrest’s decision-making. Then again, he did hire legal counsel himself, so he could have been gearing himself up to have all of his (or rather the finder’s) bases covered for a legal battle in one of the more complicated jurisdictions. Who knows?

          No worries on not having the specific rules & regulations handy; the finder can figure out how to cross that particular bridge once the harder task of finding the trove is behind them!

          • Blex, Zaph, Dal, et al…

            Hypothetical question for you related to forrest saying…if you find it, leave it in a vault for 30 days and think. [paraphrased]


            Here’s my question: What would you do if you found the treasure and inside was a note disclosing that some of FF’s treasure was obtained from questionable sources ethically? For instance what if the box was once a looted Nazi treasure taken in France from Jewish owners sent to concentration camps, then post war sold to a museum collection who then sold to forrest rather than trying to locate dependents of the Original Jewish owner?

            What would you do with the chest?

            Just curious to hear where folks stand ethically, because of these 2 statements by forrest Fenn:

            1. In the Playboy interview he says finding the chest would be akin to opening Pandora’s box. Pandora’s box is a metaphor for endless troubles. Why is finding his treasure and walking away quietly Without notifying the media full of endless problems.


            2. “You will ignore the poem to your own peril.” Mysterious Writings


            PERIL definition:
            Imminent Danger – harm – injury

            noun Imminent danger.
            noun Exposure to the risk of harm or loss.
            noun Something that endangers or involves risk.
            transitive verb To expose to danger or the chance of injury; imperil.

            **Can someone please give an honest explanation why ignoring the poem Altogether or ignoring the poem’s content will be perilous??

            This is an important statement by Forrest Fenn that everyone seems to ignore.

            IMO ff wouldn’t have made these two glaring statements if they weren’t spot on and relevant to searchers.

          • Hi 42:

            “What would you do if you found the treasure and inside was a note disclosing that some of FF’s treasure was obtained from questionable sources ethically?”

            I think that’s an unlikely explanation for the stash-it-for-30-days recommendation. I think all Forrest is getting at is that the finder will have important decisions to make, and that they should thoughtfully, patiently consider each one and try to foresee any ramifications. Some actions once taken our irreversible, such as the decision to go public with your identity or your solution.

            “In the Playboy interview he says finding the chest would be akin to opening Pandora’s box. Pandora’s box is a metaphor for endless troubles. Why is finding his treasure and walking away quietly Without notifying the media full of endless problems.”

            I think to answer that question all you need to do is look at how some lottery winners’ lives unfolded. Even if the finder wants to remain anonymous, I doubt that anonymity will last long. Someone will know, or someone will figure it out.

            RE Mysterious Writings quote: “You will ignore the poem to your own peril.”

            (it’s actually *at* your own peril.)

            I don’t think he’s talking peril in the sense of imminent danger, doom, calamity or misfortune. After all, over 99% of the world has never heard of Forrest Fenn, so they are most certainly ignoring the poem. I think on the surface, all Forrest is saying is that the poem should be your primary source of information for solving the treasure hunt, and that placing too much importance on other sources will likely be a barrier to success. Also, maybe Forrest chose that word to have a little wordplay fun, perhaps as a homonym for something else (e.g. “pair L”). There are certainly double L’s all over the place in Forrest’s writings, and a couple pages full of them in the class picture in TTOTC.

          • 42 and Zap – Re: “at your own peril”…I think Forrest is asking us to ‘listen good” to his “no place for the meek” Poem line. In my solve, that means to avoid exploring in that area, and move further downriver to my hidey spot at Baker’S Hole.

          • 42 – While I don’t believe your hypothetical situation is anywhere close to the truth, I’ll go along with the exercise and say that I would have to get rid of the portion that was tainted with such an evil history. In that hypothetical situation I would also be very public about the whole thing, since I’m losing the treasure and at that point hoping to capitalize on the story of what a straight-up honorable person I was and that it got made into a major motion picture in which Brad Pitt or George Clooney plays me.

            As for the rest about putting serious thought into it for 30 days, I think Zaphod explained it well. Forrest has also mentioned putting the chest under one’s bed for 30 days too, so I think the stress is on adequate time being spent thinking about what you are going to do. Once you decide, there’s no “undo” button. The cat’s out of the bag and the genie is out of the bottle, and it might not necessarily happen out of anything you do yourself. Like Zaphod said, I’m not sure if the decision whether to go public or not is completely in the finder’s hands. So I think Forrest is just telling the finder to be prepared. Just my two cents.

            The only thing that I’m really sure of if I find the chest myself, is putting the brakes on the Chase ASAP. That means right away emailing Forrest if he’s still alive, or emailing Dal and other Chase media people that the treasure has been found with photos for proof. Stop not only any potential accidental deaths, but also other searchers from spending more of their time and money looking for something that is no longer there. I hope whoever finds it takes the same route, because IMHO it’s the decent thing to do. Anything past that is up to personal preference, but if someone else finds the chest, I would be highly appreciative of knowing the solution to the Poem. Just my two cents.

      • To All,

        What about scavenger hunt laws? Is this not really just a globally inclusive scavenger hunt? Seems to me that if someone purposefully leaves something for someone else to find, the legalities change. I don’t recall ever having troubles over finding Easter eggs! And in my college days, we never had to turn in the hunts rewards to anyone on the privately owned campus. I think there is something to be said about the intent with which FF placed the chest and treasure.

        I agree we are not dealing with trove and I would even suggest not with misplaced property. If anything, the chest and treasure are a prize one can claim if successful at solving the puzzle of the poem. And we aren’t talking a game show prize here or lotto prize here where the value requires us to report such and such income.

        We are (arguably) talking about a box of rocks purposefully left for someone to find. Not to sound questionable, but if I leave a sack of cash somewhere in the Rockies and I tell any one of you exactly where to go to retrieve it, and the next day you go and pick it up, what more is there to say of the matter except now you have retrieved the cash I left for you to pick up?

        The only obvious difference between my sack of cash and the Chase, is that the world knows about the Chase. But the transaction is the effectively the same. If you and I were to make public the exchange of cash I just mentioned, it would neither matter how much was exchanged nor what for. I simply gave you some money. Unless either one of us is trying to claim the exchange on our taxes, even the IRS will not care. And I doubt FF is planning on using the Chase as a tax write off.

        The other funny thing about land or legal questions is of course proof. Since, presumably one person (or maybe a couple) will be the ones to find the chest, any authority seeking to seize the treasure or a portion of its worth, will need to prove that they have standing to such a claim. And since no representative of theirs will be accompanying you upon retrieving the chest, I doubt they will ba able to prove (for legal purposes) where exactly you found it or that you “found it” at all.

        Possession is 9/10s of the law. Perhaps FF’s 30 days comment lends credence to the finder being able to claim it as their own as they will have possessed it for that long.

        Just some thoughts on land discussion here. And all is IMO of course.


        • Hi Ann;

          Are you saying that you think that the “Finder” should put Indulgence in a bank for 30 days before he tries to do anything with it? What about the bracelet? Just curious – JDA

          • JDA,

            All I am really saying is, while the law is clear on known income, gifts, the like, etc., etc. the system cannot possibly know where the finders riches came from, were found, that they were found, or any details about the matter really, etc., etc…..since we are talking about a chest in the mountains presumed to be found by anyone at any time.

            There will not be a given documented record and there never will have to be. I say given because I imagine the finder will take pictures and maybe even a video, but it’s not like the IRS (or any entity for that matter) has a camera fixed on the location waiting for someone to come collect the chest. I would parallel this to winning the lotto where obviously someone is waiting for the winner to collect.

            It is even possible to find the chest, have FF confirm it has been found (assuming he is still alive when it is found) and nothing more be said or done about it. NO one has to disclose what is in the chest. No one has to report it to anyone. It will be up to the finder what they do.

            I was also simply suggesting that perhaps FF’s 30 day comment may have something to do with avoiding any potential headaches in coming forward sooner. I do not know the full extent of possession law. There is likely a precedent on time, or at least a limitations period, on determining ownership through possession.

            For example, say I stole your favorite baseball card when we were both kids but you didn’t know I had stolen it. And twenty years later your kid she that my kid has the exact same card that you once told your kid had been stolen from you.

            Now, it turns out that in fact this card is the very card I stole from you. But, when you take me to court and demand it be given back to you what do you suppose the judge will say? After all I have shown the judge pictures of the card going back at least ten of the twenty years from when I gifted the card to my kid. And I claim I bought it at a flea market when I was younger. What proof will you have to the contrary?

            How does this story apply to the Chase? It’s treasure in a box in the mountains. Unless the gems have serial numbers laser inscribed or the finder sells the graded coins in the packaging (or sells any of the treasure for that matter through traceable means) or there is some other unmentioned way to identify the contents of the chest, then no agency can prove the origin.

            Furthermore, no agency can prove acquisition. If I happen to be the finder and remain anonymous, I could sell the contents off randomly under my real identity for their inherent value without any claim that they are part of the treasure. I could go on but I think you get the idea. There’s just no way any agency can say definitively, “You are the finder of FF’s chest and this is what you found. Now you must this much n taxes.”

            And for similar reasons, no agency, such as a National Park, can say that the backpack full of treasure was something I found in the park and need to hand it over. I could just have easily have walked into the park with that same backpack full of treasure and am now on my way back out. Since they did not know it was there in the first place, they cannot claim I had removed it from that place.

            But we should not be focused on the multitude of possibilities of what one can do after finding the chest. First we must find the darn thing!

            All IMO.


          • JDA,

            Thanks! It is wonderful so far! Best weather we are having all week! I realize I neglected to answer one of your questions. The bracelet. Ideally the chest would be found in FF’s lifetime and the bracelet offered back up to him.

            As for me, I think the treasure should be kept in tact. It’s more of a cultural treasure at this point, and as indicated by the extensive history of the search community (and by FF’s own intentions) the value far exceeds monetary units. I would utilize the treasure to generate revenue for humanitarian relief efforts while keeping the treasure in tact.

            All IMO.


          • Zap,

            Thank you. I was aware. I wasn’t really trying to delve into the legal discussion here. It just sort of happened. I had been to the legal thread previously. A lot of postulating and theorizing and conjecturing going on there.

            I really don’t wish to debate whether there will be legal ramifications or not. My interest here was in the idea of picking and choosing land types based on legalities. I was merely trying to point out the simple fact that unless origin and acquisition can be proved, established laws have no bearing on the chest or it’s contents.

            Thus, if you find the chest on land where law traditionally requires you to turn in found properties, you would not have to turn in the chest because no one besides you and FF would be able to establish it had indeed been found on such property or that it was not yours to begin with.

            And for giggles, I could just as easily say that I found the chest in my back yard because I buried it there 15 years ago as a time capsule of sorts. Again, not promoting deceit here, just pointing out the obvious difficulty in proving origin and acquisition given the nature of this whole thing.

            All IMO of course.


            Aside from that, let the debate proceed but count me out.

        • Anonymous,

          Tax laws are straightforward.
          Here’s the basics related to finding Forrest’s treasure:

          1. If it is a gift he’s given you, then Forrest would pay a gift tax and you pay nothing.
          (I don’t believe this is the case.)

          2. If you hunt for the treasure and earn it, then you pay tax on it. within a year of finding you report to the IRS. This may be the correct scenario IMO.

          • Anonymous
            The treasure would be considered a form of income that you worked for, thus you pay income taxes.

          • I figure no matter what if I find a box I’ll call up Fenn and whatever with the laws. It’s a treasure box if it costs it costs, it all comes out in the wash I figure. Better then being on a phone or computer all day long , tell ya that much, could be on YouTube monetizing. Ha.

          • Has Forrest been paying taxes on the treasurer for the last ten years?

          • 42,

            Only if there is a paper trail. Otherwise there is no evidence. There are no taxes unless something is claimed. And since no tax reps now the exact content or value of the contents of the chest, they’d be hard pressed to make any legal claims. How can they tax what they do not know?

            It’s a box. In the mountains. There won’t be any ahha moment for the IRS or any other entity to lay claim to any of it. It’s not traceable.

            In the same token, if I happen to live in the mountains and find a nugget of gold each day for a year, do you think the IRS is going to tax me on collecting a bunch of gold rocks? They could try but would fail miserably. There is no legal standing without proof of origin and acquisition. Possession will control in the courts. There is no crime in collecting golden colored rocks.

            Again, I do not mean to sound devious by any means. Just how the legal system works.

            All IMO.


        • The finder needs to leave proof something that ties them the finder to the location. I am certain FF has the exact coords to the exact spot so if a person left a token or chips or something that is tied to the finder it will solidify the finder is being truthful to the spot.

          And I am 100% certain he would not have hidden it on Private/State/Indian property. He is to keen to hide it on any of those properties that would be “queer”…..

        • Guys why is all this BS of legalitys even being thrown out here It is pretty offensive really . Is every body really concerned that there is no reward for doing good vs what they can do to benefit themselves legally since it won’t come back to bite them . To me that’s taking this chase and trashing the hell out of it . I know every time I have ever left something with someone or involved someone There was a reason to see if there was someone who would NOT forget me . Because they were important to me

          • Shadow runner,

            Agreed. There really is no point to hashing out legalities. Focus should be on finding the chest. All is moot otherwise. I think this particular exchange was initiated under what sort of land the chest is most likely to be found on in an attempt to narrow down the search area. I don’t think anyone meant any offense. Just discussing why or why not the chest may be more likely to be found here vs. there.

            All IMO.


  17. Ok I got the waterproof matches now just need to catch up with someone who writes good . Never know this could be one hell of a story.

  18. Tall Andrew,

    Twice I found a golf ball in a most unusual place and then one time an old shovel at an old marvel gaze location. That shovel got the heart pumping for a few minutes. Nothing there though.

    Then, in the same area, maybe a mile away, perhaps a little more and we’ll off the beaten path up on a tree was a small rectangular piece of wood with a blue arrow pointing down but again, nothing.

    In situations such as this I have concluded these items are related to someone else’s hunt, like clues to a geocache or a Boy Scout event to earn a merit badge.


    • Curious that you found a shovel Pinatubocharlie. I found one, too, a couple years back — spade-end stuck into the pile of dirt that it had evidently dug up and then put back. Had a wooden handle. At the time I couldn’t for the life of me imagine why it was there. Best theory I could come up with later was that someone had buried a deceased pet at that spot. It had a nice western view of mountains, canyon, forest and river. I logged its GPS coordinates in case curiosity ever got the better of me and I want to poke around in that dirt pile.

      • I found a geocache two hundred yards away from my blaze. I also lucked out and found old hex drill bits for mining rock and the soles of children shoes. I wonder on the shoes and dr.pepper can who’s they might be but I’ll never know unless I find the treasure. Hopefully this year.

    • I found an old shovel (kinda near “heavy loads”) on one of my search hikes, “beyond” the place where I now think the TC is.

      • Hey TA…are you in YNP? I know where there is an old shovel near a backcountry warm spring that someone has used more than once to maintain a sweet bathing pool. Good times.

  19. I’m guessing that in the next 1,000 years, hikers in the Rocky Mountains will be finding old rusty shovels by the dozens that probably were left behind by overzealous (Fenn) treasure hunters, IMO.

    • F will probably be important to figure out. Who’s this f guy and why’d they make fs on all the trees.

      • Yup, shovel next to hole, hole next to water, trees marked with strange f symbol.. the are the marks being left for future Forrest to decipher.

  20. Sammich, gloves, flashlight, good map.

    Ain’t never heard mention of needing a shovel.

    • Zap, by the way “pair L” is an excellent homonym and double LL’s are an important part of my solution, as is “title” being the equivalent of tight L

      • 42 and Zap – This line:

        “There’ll be no paddle up your creek,”

        Is that?:

        There’ll > There will > There William?

        Forrest messes with capitalization in the Poem, also, IMO. I think that line and ‘your creek’ refer to Forrest’s father, William Marvin Fenn, and a secret fishing hole they shared. Which I plan to explore with my fly fishing librarian friend soon.

        • There’ll be two right there. You have a very imaginative mind Lisa.

  21. How many “indicators’ does your solve have?
    Indicators are things that confirm your search area like “Brown” canyon, or “Meek” road, or “Blaze” creek. Or maybe you think you’ve located Skippy’s rock pictured in TTotC, or a secret hot spring, or a marking on a cliff that looks just like Frosty.
    Are they all just confirmation bias? Maybe. But I find them interesting. I came up with over 20 in my solve and I’m still adding to the list.

    • Hey Randawg, here’s my indicators

      broad indicators are:
      named basin formation & type of rock yield HOB
      Township section number
      Nearest river
      Dry creek draw
      What to listen good for
      Nearest NA tribal name

      Specific indicators within .25 miles of specific hiding spot via
      Follow the 9 clues in poem

      • Hi 42: I believe you said you have refocused your efforts on NM, but you may be interested to know that all of the things you listed — and more — happen to also apply to a region in Montana. And it would not surprise me if, with a little imagination, other searchers could make the same claims for Wyoming and Colorado.

        • Zaph,
          I totally agree with you. My indicators would apply in all four states. That’s the beauty of my solution. Of course, what I’m not sharing is the map I’ve discovered within the poem & those indicators are specific to NM.

          BTW, Im a 5th generation Montanan and Nothing would please me more than to find the same poem map for a Montana treasure state location. I’m still working the grid.

    • All the lines in the poem, and the ones that cross.

      Remind me never to try chart a position out at sea using Google Earth though. I feel like a 5 year old child, trying to drive a car.

    • Randawg: the location of Skippy’s rock is known (Upper Falls of Yellowstone River).

      • Zap,

        Thanks for always providing interesting info. I had seen some of the discussion about this particular rock. I was not previously aware of it’s location. Remind me again of the story behind this rock? I know it’s where a picture was taken. Is it from a particular story in TTOTC? The details are fuzzy for me since I thought it was elsewhere and didn’t really pay it much attention. And there is a picture of it floating around somewhere right? Just trying to get caught up.

        Thanks in advance.


          • Zap.

            Thanks for the location of the picture. Unfortunately, I still don’t have the book. I will see what I can do though.


      • I wonder if it’s part of someone’s solution?
        (I found the location of a TTotC pic in my search area).

    • There’s at least 80, IMO. Hints over hints, hints in book, ATF’s, scrapbooks, just seems like there are a lot of little puzzles to solve.
      I mean, jokers, longhorn’s, alligators, rainbows, coins, place deer, years mentioned in ATF’s, get’s mail, pics in book, I think 80 is being on the low side.

    • Thomas,

      Not sure who you are referring to but I wanted to comment on your previous post about whether FF is paying taxes on the treasure. I would say no. What taxes would there to be paid? There is no income coming from the treasure. He certainly does not possess the treasure. And, even if it were an asset of his, it’s not a taxable asset such as property (in the sense of land or a house).

      All IMO.


      • .
        A gift tax. When one gives money (value) to another,, over a certain limit, the giver pays tax (but there are exceptions).

        • Astree,

          Gift taxes apply to recorded transactions. As I have explained elsewhere this “transaction” everyone is perceiving has no record. Therefore, there is no need of taxation. No need does not mean taxes won’t be paid. I am just emphasizing that the perceived worry over any such legal issues is misplaced since it would be difficult to tax anything undocumented.

          All IMO.


        • Thanks, Ann. I need to ponder that. I was not aware of your previous discussion on this.

          • astree,

            You are welcome. You can find more of my thoughts on the matter just a little ways up this thread or over at the Legal Ponderings page where there are several more thoughts by several searchers on the topic.

            Up above, you will find commentary on likelihood of land type for the location of the chest. On the Legal Ponderings page you find that and much, much more.

            Enjoy the reading. I wouldn’t spend too much time on it though. None of it really matters unless someone finds the chest.

            All IMO.


  22. I read on Jennys site that forrest said you could find 8 of the 9 clues on Google earth? Im just trying to get the pulse on this if its true or not and where is the source of this info?

    • Where on Jenny’s site did you think you read this?
      The pulse is flat lining. _______________

    • TexasGold: if you read that on Jenny’s, it was a searcher’s *interpretation* of something Forrest wrote or said. Forrest has never said that. Most likely, the source material for that misinterpretation was here on Dal’s in Scrapbook 167: the May 2015 Jon Lackman interview:

      Jon: “How much progress can be made by someone just thinking and searching the Internet from home? (Another way of saying this: How many clues can only be decoded in situ?)”

      FF: “All of them, in theory, but not likely in practice. A searcher must go to the site to find the treasure.”

      Link: https://dalneitzel.com/2017/02/25/scrapbook-one-hundred-sixty-six-2/

      • Zap- I agree having to go on site to find the treasure chest ,but imo you can find the rest of the clues searching the internet from home— frank

        • and 10s of thousands of people have had all nine before leaving home for a BOTG, with another set of 10s of thousands of others who left home with 1 to 8 clues.

          most mentioning 100% confidence… apparently “confidence” isn’t what it used to be.

          • Hi Writis: based just on what searchers post on the blogs, I think it’s only a small fraction who go out with candidate solutions to all 9 clues. Would be an interesting survey; my guess is a plurality of searchers are satisfied to head out with only two clues solved.

        • I remember also that Forrest said that TC is not visible on GE (not enough magnification/resolution). So, if TC itself is not clue #9 (it’s very unlikely) all 9 clues theoretically could be decoded and then founded via GE. But even if searcher found the blaze via GE he/she should has BOTG there to extract TC. Unfortunately, there are numerous combinations of solutions for 9 clues in poem. Forrest said that some searchers have solved first 2 clues (WWWH and maybe CD, NF, BTFTW) but then left the poem (i.e. failed with clue #3-4). And most likely that these searchers even didn’t that they had 2 fist clues solved correctly. I’m sure that if they know it they will never stop exploration of surrounding area and finally found solutions for other clues. But it looks like that these searchers (including the one who was within 200 feet from TC) never return to this area.

      • Frank: for what it’s worth, I wouldn’t leave home unless I had solutions to all 9 clues.

        • Agreed, zap. It’s my opinion that all nine clues plus everything else down to the very last detail can be solved from home. I want to believe I am guilty of solving all 9 clues, but not everything else, and therefore choking.

        • Hi E.C.: an argument could be made that a requirement to solve all 9 clues from the comfort of home (i.e. traditional armchair treasure hunt) would be at odds with Forrest’s stated purpose that he wanted to get people off the couch and out in nature. Still, I don’t see how a searcher could truly “proceed with confidence” and a smile on their face w/o solving all 9 clues in advance. Showing up at WWWH and hoping everything else falls into place sounds like a prescription for a lot of expensive vacations.

          • Fully agreed about the expense. If you’ve read the book or seen the movie Ready Player One, there is a Groucho Marx line quoted as a sort of “this is why I did this” moral near the end about reality being the only place to get a decent meal. There are MANY similarities between TTOTC and Ready Player One’s pop cultural influences. It seems imperative for a fanboi searcher to get to know as much about Forrest Fenn trivia as possible since we don’t know for sure until we solve the puzzle which tidbits might be relevant. It would be a natural crossover for Forrest to adopt the role of Anorak the All Knowing, and TTOTC serving as Anorak’s Almanac, for him to offer similar types of themes. And as far as I can tell, P vs NP strategies are in play, and there seems to me to be a specific reference where computing is relevant.

          • I would hate to add to people going out without “confidence”, but I have a feeling the “grasshopper effect” is at play here. imo

            (effect being:) That it looks easy to the teacher laid out on a map, the student might be looking at the same map and same answer and still might be winding it around in the head.

            wait, i just described what we all do with degrees of interpretation anyway… so never mind 🙂

          • Writis – in theory, if you discover the poem’s pattern, it can be mostly solved somewhat quickly in that all nine clues can be understood, but perhaps the last couple of steps may require some extra work. Getting to the pattern has taken me, I believe, 7.5 years to understand while I stumbled in and around looking for it. To be a good puzzle, there should be something unmistakeable about it that helps the solver work through it. To me, it is absolutely there, and the book can lead you to it if you train your mind to recognize it. As the creator of the riddle set, of course it is obvious to Forrest. And I am in complete awe of how he has managed it over the last decade, and even before.

    • Hi TexasGold. Forrest answered your question when he said “All of them”.

      So yes, it is true.

      The rest of Forrest’s comment about ” … in theory but not likely” is irrelevant. If a searcher understands the poem correctly, then 8 of the 9 clues can be determined from home with just the poem and the right map.

      Any attempt to discount or weaken Forrest’s response of “All of them” is merely an attempt to justify some locational theory, since one or more of the spots a clue refers to in that theory cannot be determined from home, which in turn would render that theory incorrect.

      Ken (in Texas)

      • Thanks Ken and good explanation. This is the right quote source. Not sure what jake was refering to about his comment on
        “Flatlining” but OK!

        • Just remember TexasGold,

          Featured Questions and Answers on The Thrill of the Chase Treasure Hunt with Forrest Fenn May 1, 2019

          • 19)How will I know if I have the clues right before my family and me drives out to get the treasure?

          You probably won’t

          So maybe staying at home thinking that all clues will be solved by GE or whatever, is a bit of a stretch. To think, the one person that does have the correct solve, and could get the treasure, won’t know if they have the clues correct. Lol, tough to be totally confident…

  23. HELP!!!
    Trying to find a needle in this haystack.

    Had to do with where or how the sun or lack
    Of the sun plays in relation to the area.


    • Well, if your dealing with a lack of sun, then a flashlight may be required, unless you have night vision goggles, and with sun SPF 30 at the least. 🙂

    • Chrisazy,

      I believe you are referring to FF’s remarks about the location being in the sun most of the day but not the chest. I do not know where that quote may be found but I believe you may either be able to search for it by key word here or find it on an early Odds n Ends thread. Wish I was more helpful.


    • Hmmm. How much should I say? In my solve I know a few things that would help depending on what exactly you are referring to. I can tell you that at Taos Ski area, on the ground under the chairlift from the sat images you can see the word sun written in the ground by the service roads. Should I have told you that? Does that help you at all? There are some other things in my solve that have to do with the sun. Perhaps there is something Southeast of the Ute Native American Museum in Montrose Colorado that could help you.

      • Alien – So I took the bait and looked these two sites up on GE (largely out of curiosity because I have a solve not far from Montrose). Didn’t see anything striking at either location. It looks like some zig-zag service roads along the Taos ski lift could spell out “sun” if you have a good imagination. The only thing that stood out SE of the Ute Indian Museum was a large circular irrigation area in the stark white hills. The only thing I found odd about it was its location in a very unsuitable looking area for crop irrigation. Maybe neither of these features are what you were referring to?

        Incidentally, for general reader interest , did you know that just west of the Ute Museum is a petroglyph area known as the Shavano Site? There are numerous rock art drawings, including one that might be an ancient map of the area. Interestingly, this archaeological site is precisely on the controversial “Chaco Meridian” – a mysterious alignment of ancestoral Pueblan sites including Chaco Canyon.

  24. 42,

    Above you asked 2 questions, one about Pandora’s Box and the other about peril.

    1. Here’s a question for you. What makes you think Forrest is referring to Greek mythology?

    2. He’s told us we need the poem and TTOTC will help us solve the poem clues. If I ignore the poem I won’t ever find the treasure, but I will have wasted countless hours researching and a lot of money BOTG. Sure sounds to me like I’m harming myself in more ways than one if I discount the poem.


  25. Writis,

    Yesterday you said “nor a grasp on the length of time a skeleton/set of bones would go unnoticed in such an area”. Like most searchers, after reading that the original poem version said “Take the treasure chest, but leave my bones and go in peace”, my assumption was that he was referring to his skeletal remains as your comment suggests.

    I’m not so sure about that now.

    Forrest says he would never intentionally deceive us and I honestly believe that. However, as with many things he says, there are multiple ways a word(s) can be interpreted, but us humans are kind of conditioned to automatically think a certain way. He’s not being deceitful, we are not being thorough in our interpretation of what we think he’s saying.

    Is it a ‘beware of the nouns’ thing, or could this be an example of being correct 85% of the time, or even the infamous backwards bike?

    “My bones” could mean something else like left over chicken bones from dinner, other bone related examples not all Of which are animal or human IMO?


    • Seems pretty clear by this ATF that the bones would have been FF’s:

      “Sometime they’ll find my bones and the treasure, but my bio will be inside the box, so at least they’ll know who I was.” (Article in HUFFPOST on 02/18/11 by Margie Goldsmith entitled ‘Well Over $1 Million in Buried Treasure: Find it!’)

    • Or chicken bones beside a empty box with a card and note saying don’t overcook this thing?

      • “Overcook” in context with the original poster’s question has a specific meaning, as always. From my perspective, it does not mean the poem is simple nor easy, nor what some say they have interpreted as “straightforward”.

        “You know I’m not thinking about spring break or a Sunday afternoon picnic out looking for the treasure chest.”

        And I suspect there will be some people spitting mad when the solution is revealed.

  26. Thanks Blex, did a quick read and noticed one error from the author, states they got to hold a peace pipe from Crazy Horse, should have said Sitting Bull, right? IMO!

  27. Texas Gold asked about the Toenail Quiz Contest judging. But that was not on an appropriate page..
    So I will answer the question here…:

    We are down to 4 finalists. It’s been a tough contest to judge. So far two judges are not talking to one another anymore and a third judge has threatened to take our decision to the Supreme Court if the others don’t concede that her choice is best.
    Decision coming in the next two hours.

    • Well done Allen K — You always seem to come up with the right / best answers

  28. I know nothing about fly fishing. I have something niggling me. Question – When a fish bites and the fisherman strikes, is there a specific turn volume on the reel? maybe half turn or something to help tighten the line? Just curious.

    • Hello BigOnus. Over the weekend my eldest son went fly fishing. In order to bring in his 22″, 5-6 lbs. fish, he had to change something in order to reel it in and net it.

      • Yes, I know, its hard to work those big uns. They like to run and it takes about 30 mins to land em. I was just wondering if anyone knew if reel adjustment on strike was needed for better skills. I’m always looking to improve my fishing and thought I might try Fly.

        • Hello BigOnus. I’ve asked the question to my son and he was trying to explain it to me. He suggested to check out the YouTube channel.

    • Fly fishing usually involves stripping the line, which is using ones hands to work the line (reel it in) incrementally until the fish strikes the bait or you have stripped the line (hand reeled it in) beyond what you feel is the spot in the water where the fish are lurking, at which point you would recast. Once a fish strikes, the fly fisherman uses their fingers to tightly grip the line and set the hook by jerking the rod, at which point they let the fish run until all of the remaining slack (the stripped line) is out of the line, using their fingers to act as a drag until the point where the line starts spooling directly off the reel itself. From there it is usually a game of give and take of tension on the line by letting the fish run and reeling.


  29. I have a question. I remember hearing Forrest quoted as saying, “Get back in the box.” Can anyone verify this? I know he has referenced out-of-the-box thinking but also that some were wildly off-tangent, hence the statement, get back in the box, which I think means a box canyon.

    • Hi MCM: MW Featured Question and Weekly Words: Get Back in the Box (7/1/2016): “Mr. Fenn, I am not even close to solving your riddle. I’ve tried for months and nothing works. I am not asking for a clue to the treasure, I’m asking for a clue to the clues. Please help me. ~Mary.”

      FF: “Dear Mz. Mary, The solve is difficult for many searchers because their minds think the clues are tougher to decrypt than they really are. Some say they are trying to think outside the box, as if the solution lies somewhere out there. Until now I have resisted telling them to get back in the box where their thoughts are comfortable and flow more easily. The blueprint is challenging so the treasure may be located by the one who can best adjust. To illustrate my point go to YouTube – Smarter Every Day. f”

      Link: http://mysteriouswritings.com/featured-question-and-weekly-words-from-forrest-fenn-get-back-in-the-box/

      Also, German Playboy interview at Forrest’s house (September 2018) @ 39:21 mark: “I’m a little bit surprised that it hasn’t been found. But there’s one thing … there’s one, I think, important thing that nobody has thought about – on all the blogs, nobody has thought about it. If they’d thought about that they might have found the treasure. And I’m very careful not to tell anybody what that thing is. But I’ve said a number of times ‘Get back in the box.’ People are looking outside … they’re looking so far ahead, they can’t see what’s layin’ in front of them.”

        • Hi E.C.: yep. I have hundreds of such quotes in a searchable document, so it’s very easy to cut and paste them here. I’ve also done my own transcripts of dozens of videos and podcasts over the years.

          • zap – have you considered tokenizing them into a database like MySQL and making comparisons to WordNet and the poem? It helped me see overlapping g patterns in term frequency. Or maybe your brain is doing that for you.

          • Hi Dal: yes, I commend JCW and a couple others who have done personal legwork and provided products of their labors to the searcher community. I have been more a depend-on-myself searcher as far as compiling info that I think is (or might be) relevant. I have also been sufficiently disappointed by the accuracy of video and audio transcripts over the years that I would only accept my own transcripts (that admittedly may have their own flaws, but in my opinion are better than anything I’ve found online.) All of this is in line with StS’s very recent advice to searchers: build your own databases; try not to depend on secondary sources.

      • In general, a box is an area that is separated from its outside. People are looking outside of the area, instead of inside the area. So, If the poem is a map, what kind of area like this presents itself on a map?

        • IMO, the box is an area that leads to the treasure, but to find the treasure one must be outside of this box. When you are in the box though, your thoughts like the river will guide you toward FF’s treasure.

      • I have always thought that perhaps the important thing that no one has talked about is; somewhere and I cannot remember where, FF stated that the pioneers would appreciate the resting place of the TC.


        • Hi Kanafire, this would be worth researching. I have not previously read/heard any mention of this possible quote.


          • MCM,
            Thanks! I’ve thought about it a lot and there are several places that stand out to me, but nothing so far that I can relate to the poem, except one partial solution that isn’t mine.
            When I read the vagabonds solution of WWWH being where the Sweetwater river flows through the Devils Gate.
            I really liked that a lot as warm waters halting.
            In my opinion, a childlike solution, using imagination, that makes perfect sense.
            The canyon is there, the home of Brown is there (Independence Rock ).
            To use proper grammar” where do we go from here”?

            All the above is my opinion and just an expression of appreciation for someone else’s effort!

            Everybody stay safe and happy hunting !


    • MCM – the word “buck” and “bok” are etymologic doublets. The word “bók” means “book”. Given the number of possible matching allusions found using “buck” in the “book”, my vote is that Forrest was suggesting we refocus our attention back to TTOTC to start solving clues instead of flying toward the lunacy. I don’t believe he was suggesting a box canyon.

  30. Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.
    Savvy fisherman get to the bottom and bring up trophies and keep-a-lid-on the bottle, about the secreted kettle hole in the canyon .
    Grab your hat, hook line and sinker , a few trinkets and 24 dollars , a box of beer and go. Hit the road avoid potholes, draw up the big one, and keep it on ice.

  31. Just an FYI for anyone trying to line up points on a map… keep in mind the earth isn’t flat.

    Shy non ewe cray Z dye mound

    • Unless f tells us to use straight means.

      Collected works bookstore interview, 10/23/2013:
      If a person reads the poem over and over and are able to decipher the first few clues in the poem, they can find the treasure chest. It may not be easy, but it certainly isn’t impossible. I could go “right straight” to it.

      KOB eye on New Mexico interview, 03/17/2013:
      They’re gonna have to figure out the clues in the poem that’ll take them “right straight” to it.

      A right-straight triangle,imo.

  32. The search boxes on this blog seem to have disappeared. The blog’s operating system was recently updated and apparently that triggered the loss. Chris is looking into the issue now.

  33. This is my delayed response to the one who asked what was in the shed . I don’t go into certain places with out permission but through the window it appeared to be the small car that was in the book. That place is special but I won’t elaborate why at this point. My next delayed solution is something I’m hung up on if nobody has been close except two then my thoughts are this maybe everybody could backtrack and possibly will find the spot were they left the poem . But for me I cant search thEm spots without the same search partner that is the good map . But that is probably out of the question huh?

  34. I must have a bad case of confirmation bias. Seeing what I want to see, or what I already believe. for example there is this description of Picuris Pueblo, south of Taos, NM:
    “Picurís Pueblo is a member of the Eight Northern Pueblos. Their own name for their pueblo is P’įwweltha, meaning “mountain warrior place” or “mountain pass place.”
    Mountain Warrior place is certainly no place for the meek… Now look at the letters in P’įwweltha. there is two Ws, and then ltha. the Ws may be construed as warm waters. And, the ltha may be arranged as halt.
    Also, Spanish explorer Don Juan de Oñate named the pueblo “Pikuria” – which means “those who paint.” Likewise, ff dealt with those who paint when he had the gallery. What did the Picuris paint has long been a question for me, and what colors did they use. I have posted before that they did paint rainbows in their kivas, as well as other things. Black, white, green, red, grey, and yellow were among the colors used in paintings including rainbows. So, that explains the name given to them by Onate. They paint. The colors just happen to include the colors of tea used when FF drank tea with Olga, black, red and green. My confirmation bias relates this to Fenns rainbow. Which is also the Picuris rainbow.
    Real, or confirmation bias?

    • You seem to have quite an interest in colors. But do you have any firm or
      semi-firm idea(s) about WWWH?

    • Michael …Picuris Pueblo was my HOB for several seasons. I know more ways in and out of Embudo Canyon than the locals. I have found what I believe to be fortifications from the Peublo Revolt there, great fishing, Osprey, and nice petroglyphs.. Cool stuff. That little kid from Penasco was close!!. But then Forrest said something that made me change my mind about my “funnel theory” haha. Who knows, maybe I’ll revisit it out of nostalgia.

    • Michael – That’s interesting stuff! I’m guessing that you probably have looked at this online book already, but just taking a brief skim through it, it seems really interesting and worth reading in full: https://www.smu.edu/-/media/Site/Dedman/Academics/InstitutesCenters/ClementsCenter/Home-page/Picuris-Pueblo-through-Time.pdf?la=en

      Starting on about page 180 of the the PDF, there are some great summaries and images of the kiva paintings that you mentioned. As yes, I see Olga’s tea colors too, but there all other variations on the rainbow in different colors like red/white/green, red/black/yellow, and black/white/red. The lightning bolt motifs are neat too.

      Confirmation bias? I think that many of us are asking ourselves the same thing right now, and we won’t know for sure until we find or not find the treasure this season. BOTG time is fast-approaching! 🙂

    • I did a brief BOTG today. I first wanted to look at the check dams along the arroyos inside the Pot Creek Cultural Site. I wanted to see if they were similar to Zuni Bowls. But they were just rocks placed across in a line. Then I went to the big arroyo on the north end of the property. It was too deep for me to examine.
      I then went down to Bear Wallow Canyon, which is down the street to the northeast. I only walked 100 yards up the trail. Somebody had left a couple of rocks leaning against each other so I stopped there and checked that area. To the south were rabbit trails that went to the stream. To the north was a small hill with large boulders leaning on each other forming little niches. Somebody had put a small rock on top of one of them. I was curious but my legs were not wiling. A couple of years ago I had tried to scramble up to those boulders. Not today.
      As I looked at the plants and trees I noticed that it was more lush than remembered. There is an abundance of sage, juniper, pinyon, and little blue flowers. I believe that this fits FF’s description of the hiding place. It is all there as far as plants go.I thought that if he didn’t hide it in Bear Wallow Canyon then I will.
      park your car: 36 17′ 54″ N 105 34′ 49″ W
      the end of the canyon is at Bear Spring:
      about 3 miles 36 17’16” N 105 31′ 38″ W

      I did not go all the way to Bear Spring.

  35. So, I have to query whether I will ever get BOTG sometime this side of the future. Full virus restrictions here in the UK, which I have to take into consideration. I have been having a good look at exchanging my currency for a while now, which gave me concern, but I suppose I could try keep my cost down low. My timing is vague, but we understand why, so cannot plan.

    I believe I have a simple solve. Before setting off, I would light the candle at each of those special places. Ask the wind spirit to blow out the flame as its meets in the middle(ish), just as I arrive from my point in the east to pick up the scorched treasure chest (with smoke in my eyes of course)!

    Couldn’t be any more simple, could it?

    I guess it will always just be a dream.

    • Big On us,

      I have enjoyed following your posts, you have been insightful, humorous, optimistic, and lighthearted. Hope the coronavirus gets its arse kicked soon and things get back to normal, so you can get out again. I have always wanted to visit the UK, being I am a UK fan, University of Kentucky that is 🙂
      Side note, do you go metal detecting? Come across any roman coins, one of my hobbies is cleaning and restoring Roman coins. Could trade you some Kentucky Fried Chicken for some, lol. Have a good day.

    • The UK is an awesome place. I was there in the 90s at Mildenhall.

      The Southwestern area adventures I took, especially Stonehenge, are treasures I will always have.

    • Hi bigonus. Got the same problem, simple straight forward solve. However i too am stuck in uk waiting for the all clear. Cant wait to get over there for a real life treasure hunt. Hoping to get visa soon as its possible to do so. Then im away. Where you from and can you say which state your locked in on?

      • I am in Yorkshire Jason, the centre of the universe, where civilization was spawned.

        Yes, I can tell you the state I am focused on. Like everyone else, the correct one! 😉

    • (Smoke in the eyes ) Not far but to far to walk . I would give you a ride .

      • Thanks for the offer Shadow runner! If you bring your Tardis, I will make the Woo-hoo noises!

  36. Thanks NearIndianaJones, I am glad you witnessed me falling in and out of consciousness from time to time. I see your wisdom above and beyond my own.

    I try to be topof my game as much as possible, but we all have our ups and downs, so jump around a lot.

    I see a few Roman coins knocking around, here and there. Once had a stab at cleaning them myself, but find it oddly satisfying just dipping the edge in the hot solution, like keeping old and new.

    I love Mildenhall, Chrisazy. There is a great farmshop on West-Row that does a great dish of chicken soup! So yes NearIndianaJones, I will gladly trade up for some Kentucky Fried Chicken!

  37. When I go to street view on my spot, I see people walking around…. Anyone else see that??

  38. I had been working a spot for the last few weeks, but got distracted by toenails and moved again. I revisited it yesterday and after a lot of looking and thinking, I saw something that hit my like a brick. Forrest had said something in an interview, or answering a question, that at the time his answer seemed peculiar and I shelved it in my brain, knowing it meant something, and thought about it every now and again.

    Now it seems to make sense. How likely is it that he told us the exact location of The Treasure in one short sentence and it passed us all by?

    In my hopeful opinion, I think he did!

    • Big O, I’ve been there and done that on numerous searches, good luck with that. Forrest is way ahead of us. He has stated on pg. 26 of TTOTC that He was taught at an early age “that you should always tell the truth, but you should not always tell ALL the truth.” That statement alone will make you question yourself in all conclusions you’ve come to, in regards to ones solve. That in itself will make your head spin, if you’ve been in this chase at least a few years.

      • Afana – I have learned how slippery the Fenn fish is! But this is something he did say and it happens I found it after I drew my lines. It precisely coincides with where my lines cross. Even if I take it out of the equation I am still stood on the same spot. It appears to be a confirmation.

        Having said that, every day I start at the beginning and work as though I have no idea, keeping an open mind.

        • BigO, I hope “an open mind” doesn’t include a rusty, old “can opener”. I’ve had my share of those. Those old rusty gears inside my head would additionally prevent it from turning even further.

          Having stripped a few of its teeth, it feels like that can opener has skipped repeatedly and, quite possibly, one too many times. My only peace is that someday it will find a place in history, holding a similar fate as the buffalo.

          • Summers sunshine
            Under the sky
            Zero chance of rain
            Young forever
            Someone to love

          • I use a “belt sander” to open my cans Suzy-S. The kids love the sparks flying about at meal times.

            I am on a new path now and its shaping up nicely!

          • I’ve got my “Air Jordan 5’s” on and dancing’ to “Burning Down The House” as I’m heading out the door. Don’t tell me I ain’t got rhythm and the hoop of the dance. lol

          • That reminds me of Charlie and the Great Glass Elevator, by “Roald Dahl”.

          • The horse’s watering hole was dad-blame MT. Presumably, the person with the 7 iron shot it north.

            Elevator going up please. As to the floor to get off on, I haven’t a clue.

            Maybe I should exchange my dancing shoes for dancing boots… the kind that can hold several post-it notes when I get lost.

            I mean, really – Ropes can only hold so many nots.

          • Suzy Q,
            No 7 iron, my swing speed is to slow, had to use the 0 degree driver with rocket assist golf balls. Like a cannon.

          • NIJ – Too many faces to hit out there with a blast like that. Even Quasimodo’s hunch would have a hard time ducking something that vicious.

            Anyways, looks like my run of good luck has ended and I thought I was near the end. Heck, I even found what looks like old plane wreckage (just like Fenn talks about in his book). Not sure if the “authorities” know, but I’m informing them as I write.

            So I guess I’ll take my last remaining Ben Franklin home with me and call it quits… MT’s buffalos and wild boars will sadly be missed.

          • “Don’t make the alligator mad until you’ve crossed the river”.

            I take it as funny how Forrest’s statement can have and “X” in it. Maybe 2 “X”s…

            Pointing toward something, I wonder?

  39. I’ve been really depressed this past week or two. I was supposed to be searching right now but just before all this Covid-19 stuff started I quit my job after 13 years. Then there was a delay before hiring me at my new job, again because of Covid… I had planned 2 weeks of search time but the vacation time was with my old employer. Now I have to wait until September to get enough time off to make it out to search. I suppose that I’ve waited a number of years to find the right spot so I guess a few more months won’t matter much. I just can’t seem to get out of this funk right now. At least I have all your posts to keep me company until I can travel. I appreciate you all! Thanks for all your posts that keep me going!


    • Tim,
      I went BOTG last week and came up empty, Don’t worry, it’s still out there.
      It’s almost impossible to find. And who knows what the Blaze is… if it’s on a slab rock you will have to be right on top of it too see it. I think the chest is covered real good, if not buried by now in debris.. I wish you all the Best… stay safe !

    • You are reading it wrong Tim. The only two important times here are the time you decided to go BOTG and the time you do. The extra days in between would only appear at the other side of BOTG and if you did not find it then you would have had extra days of disappointment.

      You have longer to plan, more time to go over your solve, cheaper off season food costs etc. Sounds like a win to me mate.

      Forget all that negative stuff, identify all the good, make it positive and march forward. Throw on some of those old comedy shows and get those chuckle muscles exercised!

    • This might be a good time to bounce your solve off of some trusted friend(s) or
      family member(s). Sometimes it’s hard for a person to spot their own mistakes.
      Good luck. As always, IMO.

      • Ya the few of those I have I have no idea were to find a phone number for them. Plus it’s been 10 plus years .

    • Hang in there, Tim! You’re not alone. Nothing a good treasure hunt can’t cure though! And IMHO, September is absolutely the BEST month of the year to visit the Rockies! Those fierce summer afternoon thunderstorms finally start to subside while it’s still much too early to worry about an early Winter arrival.

    • Thanks everyone for the tips! I think that maybe I feel depressed is because I am not in love with my new job. I keep thinking to myself that maybe I should just quit and throw caution to the wind and go searching… of course I know there are no guarantees in anyone’s solve and I’d not take such a risk. I think I will take your advise and keep reviewing my solution… thanks again everyone!!


    • Hi TimM,

      I wanted to share that I’ve been feeling the same way. I recently started a new job on March 27th and it’s a struggle.

      When I’m feeling down about my day-to-day, I have a personal reminder to be grateful to have a job during a time when so many are out of work and I would encourage you likewise. And the job you have now doesn’t have to be the job in which you remain. I’ve read The Thrill of the Chase several times and I always come away feeling like I wish I could have lived a life like that, and maybe someday… As long as it doesn’t consume you, I think pursuing the Chase is a great way to get outside ourselves and live a bit of adventure courtesy of Mr. Fenn.


    • TimM,

      You should have quit your job after three months. It’s a shame you put in 13 years of your life to end it that way. There must have been some stretches of greatness and I understand first-hand that sometimes a sudden new boss can crush a happy career.

      Don’t be in a rush to search. The only good search months are July, August and September; although for one of the clues, I think the end of October.

      I might not be able to search at all this year because of the Covid travel restrictions and I’m as excited to get out there as anybody.

      Have a great weekend everyone.

      • Thanks Muset,

        The 13 years of work was at a 911 agency. I loved the job but the working conditions were rough. Over that period of time I’ve brought a lot of things home with me that I will never forget, most of all the 911 call from my Mother when my Dad died of a heart attack at home. That was in 2011 and I can still hear every word she said on the call. My new job is still in dispatching but not 911. It still has lives in the balance, and to be honest, I’ve had about enough of this kind of work. I would love to have a job of emptying trash cans and mopping floors!!

        Either way, I will make the best of my new job l, as well as the time to search in September! I’m one of the lucky few that can actually claim that I’ve searched for a treasure!!!

        Thanks again!! Good luck to you and I hope you get to search this year, at least for just being in the great outdoors!!


  40. Hang in there TimW.
    These are difficult times, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel, and it’s not an oncoming train.
    We’re almost through the worst (IMHO). Hang in there!

    –Fennatical (in Santa Fe)

  41. BOTG #2 2020

    Just want to give caution to all searchers headed out the rivers all of them that I have seen are over flowing they are the Highest levels I have seen. Please wait to cross any flowing water…… I did a BOTG this morning and turned right back around , it is not worth it! Even if you think you can get across remember you have to come back across and the levels are always up in the afternoon. Be safe everyone.

  42. The record for a ball of string is 825# and 337.5 miles log sold for 8 grand. Hmmm 8.25 miles north, then another 337.5 miles to the spot. …

    • But which spot… Wwwh may be 825 miles from Santa Fe… Puts it about at Madison junction.

      The Lady that sold it also sold millions of other art from her resturant, and she could fly an airplane. Mrs Haussner

    • String is too easy to rustle up, there is no thrill of the hunt or thrill of the find in that. Same with bottlecaps. That’s probably why Forrest moved on to collecting less common treasures, and hiding them in places where nobody will stumble over them.

      • String and Bottle Caps are symbolic of something else, IMO most things in the TTOTC is ether a metaphor, symbol or analogy of something tied to the surrounding location of the chest. What does strings and bottle caps represent in your search location? Something to Ponder..

    • Lolo, pretty good Musstag. But it’s North of that spot. So, maybe it’s at least 337.5 miles North of Santa Fe, at an elevation of 8,000 feet.

  43. Thoughts:

    1) bear bells do no good next to creeks…
    2) walking slowly with your head down while adjusting bear spray (or anything else); not a good idea..
    3) moose calves have spots just like deer…
    4} moose moms really dislike it when you look up and notice wobbly baby moose with spots…
    5) moose can’t hear anything next to creeks either.
    6) you can get really close to a moose next to a creek with out either of you ever noticing, and I mean really close.

    7) half a second, seems like a long time drawing bear spray….
    8) half a second, takes way too long to realize you could possibly use bear spray..
    9) half a second, seems like way too short of time removing the trigger guard ..
    10) fortunately reaction times when surprised are also slow for animals.

    I looked up, exactly the same time as she looked up from her baby, we were 12 yards short of hugging it out.

    we both said “oh christ”, her “oh christ” was more ominous than mine though…

    I started to back away slowly, she was not impressed with my grace.

    she started a slow charge going to full charge. I planted a foot expecting the impacted.

    I needed another half a second so instinctively I put up my other hand and yelled with a really commanding Loud voice: “Stay Back” as I pointed the bear spray… at which she reared up turned 90 degrees and trotted off with a wobbly baby in tow.

    fumbling around for the camera was in vain after the surprised shock of it working wore off.

    I don’t know if pointing a device, or the command worked… I would suggest to use both.
    not sure of ever hearing of yelling at a mouse had ever worked. well, now you have heard of one. (I wouldn’t count on it as fool proof though)

    by the way, thinking of using bear spray on a moose is not something that comes naturally, nor one ponders before the situation presents its self in living color, That is for the benefit of others faced with such a situation in the future, so you do not waste the one second that I did.

    (I had wasted half a second reaching for my pistol, because who thinks of using bear spray on a moose when in shock?) shock was not enough, I had realized I was not going to shoot a mother moose, no matter the thump I was going to take, so had the (sarcastic) ‘brilliant’ (un-sarcastic) idea of using the bear spray, all in the course of one second.

    arm chairing the idea is a matter of monday morning quarterbacking, it is not something that comes to you naturally… I found this out by experience. now you do not have to ponder it.

    also, I do not know if the spray would of worked on a charging moose by the way.)

    • Now – That’s a tale to remember. Bet the wobbly baby was cute though – STAY SAFE – STAY HOME – STAY HEALTHY & STAY ALIVE.

    • Wowee, Writis! Glad that you lived to tell the tale! Close encounters of the moose kind are no joke!

    • while all of my attention was on the mom, The calf had more a dabbled look, judging by how wobbly it was, legs splayed and literally shaking, I think it was still wet from being born, giving the dabbled look in forest’s broken sunlight. Apparently moose calves don’t have two colors… This one sure looked to have two colors but probably was from being wet.

    • Great story. Glad you are safe. Thanks for the knowledge on what to do with a charging moose. I think???

  44. I bet you will never forget that chance encounter, I bet it will get better and better every telling 🙂
    So, was a change of unmentionables required after wards?

    • I rarely wear underwear, but when I do, it is something very unusual… (unquote) “Stripes” a must see ‘classic’ for any too young, a true ‘literary classic’ in movie form 🙂

  45. Hi all, hope your all staying safe and are well.
    If you put a solve together that lead to a place that wasn’t spoken of in TTOTC, but was later spoken about in a scrap book, would that put you off your solve or make you want to check it even more? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

    • Jason,

      I suppose that depends on whether or not you believe the place is mentioned in TTOTC. Some believe it is. Others do not. Suppose, you had never read the book and put together a pretty good solve. Would reading the book help any after that? Would it change your mind about the solve? If you found the chest with such a solve would you care? Seems there are several possibilities. I imagine it is up to you to decide how confident you may be in the solve you have developed. No solve is the right solve until one has been led to the chest.

      All IMO.


      • Hi ann.
        Thanks for the reply.
        I made my solve before reading the book and i felt strong enough on it, to start planning to travel from the uk to have a look. After reading the book the first time i felt less sure about it because it wasn’t in there, but then after reading it again, i started picking small pieces out of different stories that in a round about way seemed to relate to it imo. By the way i should state that the place he directly mentioned in the scrapbook, but not in TTOTC isnt the end of the journey, but close by.

        • Jason,

          Not a problem! You have much further to travel than I so I am glad you are content with your solve. Looking forward to hearing about the adventures.


    • Jason;

      What do you mean by : ” that lead to a place that wasn’t spoken of in TTOTC,” Do you mean by name – Like YNP or Shoshoni or Casper?
      How about a place that was not named, but spoken of like – “seven miles west of town?” What names have appeared in scrapbooks? I am sure that Zap can give us an accurate list, but none come to mind at the moment – but then again, at my age, my memory is not to be counted on. Just askin’ – 🙂 JDA STAY SAFE – STAY HOME – STAY HEALTHY & ALIVE.

      • Hi JDA,
        Thanks for replying.
        Its not named or spoken of, as in a certain distance from a place. Say you follow your own interpretation of the poem and come to a place (for eg “lake x”) its in the area’s you know he’s been, but he hasn’t told a story of that place in the book. Then you find a scrap book hes written of that exact location. Would it make you want to drop it because he’s spoke about it in a scrap book or search it because you found it before you knew he had been there?. I can pick out pieces of stories that could be seen as hinting at it. But non directly stating it out right.

        • Since this is a treasure hunt – I seriously doubt that Forrest has ever mentioned the hiding place in a direct manner – either in SB’s or in TTOTC or other books. Are their hints in all that he says and writes – I, for one, discount nothing.

          Do I weight a hint in a book or SB – one, over the other – I try not to.. To me all that Forrest has said or written is not to be ignored. JMO – JDA

        • JDA is correct IMO. It would not be wise to ever mention the place and draw attention to it.

          • I agree. I don’t think you are going to find the name of the place directly called out in any of his writings or interviews. Hinted at, quite possibly, but never called out in direct fashion.

            There are no shortcuts.

            Of course, I haven’t read *everything* he’s ever written. Deficiency on my part.

          • I agree, Ray Henry, There are no shortcuts. NF,BTFTW may not be as far as some think though – Who knows? Only Forrest, and he ain’t talkin – JDA

          • Best thing to do is strike out every location mentioned by Forrest and know the tc is somewhere else.

            That narrows the field a bit lol.


          • So in your opinion and on that line of thinking it would surely rule out places like the fire hole, the madison grayling creek etc, as hes spoke about them numerous times?

          • Jason – Everything and every place Forrest says and mentions will play its own part. It is up to you how to interpret matters in the correct fashion.

            I try think from inside out – If you hid treasure under the peer at say Blackpool would you create a full write up of that exact location? I personally wouldn’t.

            Only my opinion.

  46. I am in agreement that Forrest never mentions the exact places for the treasure chest location—or any of the clues—in any of his books. In fact it’s clear to me that he scrupulously avoids doing so. The hints in the books—and even on the covers—are plentiful, however, as they are in his scrapbooks here on Dal’s site as well. The thing is, FF gives you a few fairly obvious clues in TTOTC that will get you to the right general area, but you have to have a pretty good idea what and where WWWH is before A) the rest of the clues in the poem fall into place, and B) you can recognize the rest of the hints in the book and use them to help confirm your solve.
    And yes, I know that totally sets a person up for problems with confirmation bias. You can’t stretch either the clues or the hints to make them work—they have to fit without you even trying.
    And Forrest Fenn is a genius at giving sneaky clues. For instance, his use of maps in the book is very tricky. They don’t necessarily hint at what you think they do—but there are some great hints in them.
    The scrapbook hints are also tricky and some are very fun (my favorite is the one about his “friend Joe Billy Bob”—sorry I’ve forgotten the number at the moment. But I think I know where FF’s favorite fishing spot might be, and it’s for sure not mentioned in any of the books). That scrapbook is not included in the books but others are, Especially in the OUAW book–it is made up mostly of material from his scrapbooks, though some of the material has changed. (Including the Dizzy Dean chapter added at the end of the revised version. I’ve got some ideas about why that is).
    Also, there are what I consider to be themes , rather than hints, in the books which are super-important too—things like graveyards and grave markers and knots (IMO that’s the real significance of the ball of string by the way). Plus other themes, and they all fit together to explain why he hid the treasure in the exact place where I believe it is hidden. All of this, of course, is entirely IMO but hopefully my BOTG search partners will find out soon if I am right or just up a creek without a paddle.

    • I must agree about Forrest’s use of language. I have found that Forrest has a very idiomatic manner of speaking. My assessment is that he is always honest with his words, but they frequently don’t mean what most people would agree that they mean. And if you draw the wrong conclusions, it is only because you aren’t using his pencil.

      When is a chair not a piece of furniture? When it is running a meeting. When is a chair a piece of furniture? When he is dumber than a board. And if you don’t catch wise to that, you’ll never be able to have a productive meeting of the minds.

      I’m just a rambler and a gambler….

      • Exactly, Ray Henry! When is a braid not something in someone’s hair, and does a blaze really fit only one definition of the word?

        • Red nots are there to protect you from dangerous water, and every PGA tournament player wants to win a blaze(r). But I’ve never cared for golf. *grin*

    • Sorry, need to correct something: my sentence about the maps should have read “the maps in the books”, not “in the book”. I was not referring just to TTOTC, as there is only one map in there. (But it’s an example of what I meant—IMO, don’t believe that map is a hint as to which state holds the treasure. I do think that together with the gold items laying on It, it is hint of sorts to what he means in the poem by “ riches new and old”. Also IMO one of the gold items may be a hint by itself as to where the treasure is hidden, but not the map.). TFTW also has only one map, the really nice fold-out one of the four states in the back of the book. It definitely contains the hint that the treasure is not in Canada, Idaho or Utah, and also IMO contains one other very small hint as to where it is IMO actually hidden. OUAW is the one with the majority of the maps, and the one where IMO FF has been the most clever in how he uses them.

      • Hi Librarylady: you’re forgetting the maps on pages 129-131 and 210-211 of TFTW.

  47. Vacation time approved!!! BOTG at the end of the month. I am excited to get bak in the Rockies!!

    I just received a note from Forrest that I believe to be authentic so I will pass it on…
    As a cautionary note I am also verifying the note with Forrest at this exact moment…
    The treasure has been found
    It was under a canopy of stars in the lush, forested vegetation of the Rocky Mountains and had not moved from the spot where I hid it more than 10 years ago. I do not know the person who found it, but the poem in my book led him to the precise spot.
    I congratulate the thousands of people who participated in the search and hope they will continue to be drawn by the promise of other discoveries.
    So the search is over. Look for more information and photos in the coming days. f

    • Well ,,, I am very excited for the searcher that had the Imagination to find the chest , and though it was not I , I am excited for me for trying !!!

    • I verified the sender of the above note. It did indeed come from Forrest. We will post pics and solution when Forrest passes them along.

Comments are closed.