Scrapbook Two Hundred Fifty Four…

October 9, 2020
by dal

 

ff p

For twenty years the military played a significant role in Forrest’s and Peggy’s life. The relevance did not end when Forrest retired from the Air Force in 1970. He was an accomplished combat pilot…and of that he was proud. He was also a humanitarian…caring deeply about the lives of humans. He was careful in trying to balance, on one hand, the killing and destruction borne in his role as a combat pilot, against the sage and human desire to honor and assist those around him. In many ways he was still a pilot long after he gave up flying; in the way that mentors always assist and push others to be as good as humanly possible.

I’d like you to look at a piece of film that Forrest and I sat down and watched in early 2014.  This is 24 minutes of gun camera film from Forrest’s missions in Vietnam. Listen to Forrest’s voice. I believe he was proud of his skillful ability to destroy enemy targets, and at the same time, regretful of the inevitable pain and death to civilians that came with his best efforts.

Forrest was both a realist and a humanitarian. When watching the evening news with him I would often hear him whisper…”Why can’t we all just get along?”

There is more explanation in the film’s description on the video page.

 

Please look HERE for the video.

 

Forrest was a compulsive record keeper. These are pages from Forrest’s personnel flight log. He kept these in spiral notebooks while he was in Vietnam. These come from Chris LaFrieda’s collection of material. You will remember that Chris is the guy that organized the search for Forrest’s plane some 50 years after Forrest was shot down in Laos. It’s a great story.

You can find that story HERE

There is a guide to the “pilot language” contained in the below photos. The guide is at the bottom of this page…just before the comments.

You can click on any photo to make it larger and easier to read.

IMG 2087
IMG 2081 IMG 2082 IMG 2083 IMG 2085

 

Forrest kept a mission log or flight log of every mission he flew in Vietnam. The entries were generally made as soon as he got back to his hut after a mission, while the details were still locked in his brain. 

At the top of the page is the date and the mission number. Below that are the callsigns and aircraft numbers of  all the pilots in the flight. There is also a radio frequency that they all used to communicate. This frequency changed for each mission so that the enemy had a harder time trying to listen in.

Then there is a list of mission particulars by abbreviation.

FAC
Forward Air Controller. This person, in a separate aircraft, ensures that attack aircraft hit the intended target and do not injure friendly troops. Forrest often refers to them by their call sign. The FAC is generally on target before the flight arrives and gives the flight final instructions about what is happening on the ground and last minute details of the mission including if there are friendlies around, where they are and where the enemy is located. 

TGT
Target. Usually coordinates and a description. The coordinates are military coordinates as delineated on a military map, These coordinates have no relationship to the world coordinates that civilian maps use.

BDA
Bomb Damage Assessment. This is Forrest’s assessment of the mission success or bombs that hit the target compared to the number of bombs deployed.

RNDZ
Rendezvous. This is the staging area where all aircraft in the flight meet up to begin their mission. A rendezvous point is necessary because the aircraft take off one at a time and are not immediately together. After take off they head for the rendezvous point where they all meet up get any updates and head for the target.

T/O
Usually lists the take off time and then the time on the target and the time they left the target.

Forrest also sometimes mentions the weapons he was carrying. CBU-34 means a type of Cluster Bomb Unit. These are the small bomblets Forrest talks about dropping. They are the size of a softball and there are hundreds in a container. Once the pilot opens the container the bomblets fall out. Different bomblets are designed for different missions. Some are anti-personnel. Some are incendiary. Some are designed to destroy bridges and other infrastructure…etc.

An F-100 could carry many different weapons from dumb bombs to smart rockets to cannisters of bomblets to napalm. The weapons they ultimately carried were determined by the target they were going after.

 

 

 

 

 

 

507 thoughts on “Scrapbook Two Hundred Fifty Four…

    • I believe in the beginning Dal actually authored the scrap books… Many of them… Thanks Dal going to watch the video now…

      • What’s going on in here. Geez, everyone is gone too, who’s gonna complainf. I really liked the video, it’s not often to listen to someone narrate the real footage. Rinds me of using fin cans for flower pots.

  1. Thank you for the scrapbook, Dal. Watching Mr. Fenn’s missions on the video and hearing him explain it was amazing! So many times while watching it, I kept saying, “Wow!!!” His country and duty called and he served.

    • He sure did. Admirably, I’d say. I don’t blame him for being relatively anti-war
      after his military career ended. As always, IMO.

    • I believe Dal is continuing what Forrest started. I’m very thankful for Dal coming out with this. Is it possible the Chase is still on? I’m extremely sorry for The loss of Forrest and all he did for people in need. I feel somewhat responsible for the many events that Could have taken place this year and those that did. I hope Dal continues to enlighten us with Facts about Forrest and his life. I didn’t know Forrest personally except for replies on the scrapbooks, and throughout this whole process I feel Forrest was able to learn something about me, good or bad. I feel that Dal lost a very close friend and I am stumbling for the right words to express my gratitude for how Forrest influenced my life and others around me. Thank you Dal
      for all you have done and all you do in the future. It’s great to know that the scrapbooks are still up and new ones being added.

  2. Thanks Dal, it was nice to hear Forrest from the past…Thanks for sharing!!!
    Your a lucky man to have sat with Forrest and listened first hand to his accounts of military action. To watch video and live commentary is rare and I’m sure you truly treasure the memories.

  3. If we could all just learn that one thing, “can’t we all just get along” the world would be a better place!! It was a better place with Forrest in it!! I still miss my friend!! Thanks for all you share, Dal

  4. #254 proof that f was tuff as nails and if you think the hike from the sedan to hiding place was easy…I’ll bet you are wrong.

  5. Page 122 of Too Far To Walk Illustrates how deeply the war in Vietnam affected the Major. On page 122 of The Thrill of the Chase are people and places that had a profound influence in making Forrest the person he was. IMHO, the number 122 plays a critical role in the Chase.

    • I believe the number 16 to be playing an even larger role in the Chase. Back in March ((SB 250) Forrest posted that BOTG would resume 1 June.

      Then the treasure was reported found June 6. The photos came to light on June *16*.

      Forrest passed away Labor Day. Exactly 16 days later, the Finder posted his story. NOW, 16 days after that, this Scrapbook is posted. The more I look, the more sixteens I find.

      NBD

      • Are you taking all this *16* stuff as hints or clues regarding how to solve
        the poem? I wouldn’t. I don’t think any math or numbers at all are involved in a correct solve. But Forrest’s writing(s) about pie may be a
        small hint. Perhaps very small. As always, IMO.

        • I am still trying to decide how 16 is related to the chase. I do know 16 (and multiples of 16) seems to show up a lot this year. In a poem of 6 stanzas of 4 lines, (64), it seems to me to be part of some design.

          IF the pattern holds true, there are only 2 more Scrapbooks to appear. Then there will be no more.

          NBD

        • This is all very pastiche. Is TC right? Does the chase go on. The poem’s design wears me out.

          How could he? Would he? In the words of Harry Conick – “those girls are always dreaming.”

  6. Thank you Dal for publishing this video. It is hard to believe they flew the jets this low. It is clear in Forrests voice how he felt about the missions. Thanks for sharing.

  7. I could watch this over and over. Beautiful but horrible at the same time. You’re a lucky man to have had that relationship with Forrest. I felt like I was sitting next to my grampa.

    • I never saw any beauty in war. But I saw some interesting things. Have you
      ever seen videos of atomic explosions? I find it awesomely fascinating, but also
      horrifyingly scary at the same time.

  8. This is amazing to watch. I’m surprised the government allowed Forrest to keep these films.
    Dal, did Forrest tell you how he was able to have these films? Maybe declassified?
    Either way it was nice to hear Forrest voice again, I really miss him 🙁

  9. Without ff, Some days are gonna be harder than others.
    “Give peace a chance”

    Thanks Dal, for sharing this intimate view.
    I wanted to talk w f about this part of his life but I never knew how to approach the subject. 🙁 <3
    How do you rrrreally thank someone for something so polarizing and deeply impactful.
    It just…. is. Breathe

    • I believe “union” is the core word. It is a means of discipline for many eastern spiritualists and where even strangers are considered family.

  10. Dal thanks for sharing this, it is hard to watch without realizing the constant danger our pilots faced, patriots in a cause that was often unappreciated by the American Public, I know I lived it too.
    I do not know if you have heard this comment by George Armstrong Patton, but it is clear to me that the message of war is winning the battle, even in a lost cause… “No dumb B* ever won a war by going out and dying for his country. He won it by making some other dumb B* die for his country.”
    Like it or not war is a commitment in all-out support for a cause, even a losing one.
    Bring home the troops, and lets let other people alone until we are attacked, then hear the words of great warriors like Patton, Fenn and Audie Leon Murphy, he too was a Texan.

    TT

    • Fenn will reincarnate as a victim of war. One day he will learn to not kill and will find peace. I relate to his path. Patton said

      Through a Glass Darkly,
      Perhaps I stabbed our Savior
      In His sacred helpless side.
      Yet I’ve called His name in blessing
      When in after times I died.

      Through the travail of the ages
      Midst the pomp and toil of war
      Have I fought and strove and perished
      Countless times upon this star.

      I have sinned and I have suffered
      Played the hero and the knave
      Fought for belly, shame or country
      And for each have found a grave.

      So as through a glass and darkly
      The age long strife I see
      Where I fought in many guises,
      Many names — but always me.

      So forever in the future
      Shall I battle as of yore,
      Dying to be born a fighter
      But to die again once more.

      Live and learn

  11. My heart just hurts so deeply. For you and his family. If you are ever in Detroit do come by and we have to talk. you have my e mail.
    My husband would have loved to join me in my journeys but he had to stay home with the dogs.

    You shared your friend with the world and we are forever, thank ful for the journey.
    Karen Ruth Teacher from Detroit.

  12. Thank you so much for sharing the artifact Dal. To hear Forrest again is wonderful.

    I really envy the time you had with Forrest Dal, especially the things you learned from him.

    Pinatubocharlie

  13. We updated this page and added a number of photos from Forrest’s Flight Logs in Vietnam. The photos came from Chris LaFrieda’s collection of materials. They really add a great deal of depth to this story. You can see a description of the mission as well as technical details. Look on the page above for the update…

      • I enjoyed that as well. He was extremely maticulous with details is the part that stands out to me. This begs many questions about unanswered questions.

    • I know the treasure has been found…but are we still suppose to be looking for hints, in everything.

      I can’t help myself. There may be something wrong with me, but I will wait to get professional help until the spring.

  14. This scrapbook is perhaps the most profound and complex scrapbook of all the Fenn scrapbooks I’ve read, one which at least unconsciously grapples with a profound philosophical/social problem I’ve been thinking about.

    Let me see if I can put the problem at least somewhat clearly. In the arts there is the question of whether society should accept artworks by artists who are morally questionable, or to put it into extreme form, whether society should accept brilliant and/or good works of art which have been produced by people who themselves have been bad people, for example accepting Caravaggio despite him being a murderer, or accepting Picasso despite his ill treatment of women and so on. And then there is the opposite or flip problem (but obviously related to the former problem) of what to do when we are faced with people who are good, of relatively good morals, who have come up with ideas or inventions which are morally problematic, such as Nobel inventing dynamite, or the good person/people who led to plastics polluting the environment, or the inventors of all the various forms of communication leading to propaganda, problems of social media and so on,–not to mention all the good physicists who have led to nuclear technology.

    This scrapbook about Fenn has Fenn, presumably a good person, involved in what was called a good war, designed by people apparently without bad morals (the “best and brightest”), and powered by technology (bombs, fighter planes) designed by relatively good people, and the outcome at least, going by this gun footage, is sheer destruction of people, infrastructure, the natural environment. And Fenn, a relatively good person, managed to acquire great wealth by I suppose society approved/good means (Santa Fe gallery), and eventually designed a treasure hunt called The Thrill of the Chase which leads apparently to one winner and a significant number of disappointed losers, and…well, you get the picture: It’s incredibly difficult to figure out right or wrong here, and while things would be made so much easier (apparently) if we could pinpoint Fenn as a bad person (and consequently declare all he does bad, like a morally questionable artist automatically suspect despite producing great works) we are faced with a more or less good person involved in a variety of questionable activities (everything from war to dealing in Native American goods to designing a morally problematic treasure hunt) which makes everything so much more complex, so complex I’m certain I’m not writing about it clearly enough here.

    The whole problem makes me ask a simple but devilishly complex question: What is clean money, what is money you can be proud to have earned, money which does not weigh on conscience, and what is money that you can be proud to accept from another person, that you can be more or less sure has not been acquired in harmful manner? If it’s not right, as some people say, that you should admire artworks created by bad people is it any better to say accept a prize named after the person who invented dynamite (Nobel), or in general to make money from something which is suspect as to its effects no matter how moral the originator?

    This scrapbook is not without hints, if we can take the My War for Me chapter of Thrill of Chase to be important, but it also concentrates the moral quandary of the My War for Me chapter, raises the intensity of moral problem of chapter. I’m not sure a solution to poem, retrieval of treasure, can avoid deep moral/philosophical questioning, in fact to point of a Catch-22, whether a person would be comfortable accepting such a treasure at all. The real treasure seems to me truly understanding what the Chase is all about and if you can make headway on some of the deep philosophical problems it raises, whether you can improve in some sense on problems of Catcher in the Rye, Gatsby, For Whom the Bell Tolls, Omar Khayyam. Whether you can make some headway on the hard road to wisdom.

    • Thoughtful post, Tenderfoot.

      We visited the ghost town of Virginia City, Montana a couple of years ago and took the Alder Gulch railroad to Nevada City. One hundred and fifty years ago the area was a hotspot of gold mining. Spoil tips still line the mile track. Nature hasn’t recovered from the damage. The original treaties gave the land to Indigenous tribes, but once gold was discovered the tribes that had lived there for millennia were hounded off the land. When the gold was exhausted the area was abandoned. A high cost was paid for the shiny stuff. Was it worth it? Those miners must have felt the thrill of that chase the way we have felt about this one. And then those dreams turned to dust, and they moved on.

      Our histories show our collective imperfections, and our interpretations or perception of history evolves through our own experience and needs. None of us are perfect. It’s an awesome responsibility to know that, to acknowledge those imperfections, to forgive, and (with resolve to do better) to still carry on.

      The older I get the more important it seems to tread lightly to stay in balance.

    • That’s a great question. If I remember correctly, the mission where he was shot down the second time was not recorded (or lacking detail) because the mission card ended up in the wreckage. The trip to the waterfall was not an official mission, so it would not have been in the log.

        • I searched for this. It only (to my uncertain knowledge) shows up
          on websites related to the Fenn treasure hunt. So I am quite
          skeptical that it’s a common thing. But I suppose that you could
          grind up some bronze and teach a dog to identify it. Kinda like the
          way dogs are trained to sniff for drugs. As always, in my opinion.

    • Thank you for the link to Cynthia’s video, Dal. It’s interesting to see the area. I’m wondering if Mr. Fenn could have hopped over the creek, that everyone did in the video, carrying the 20 lbs. of treasure chest, and the 22 lbs. of treasure thereafter. I believe we’ve been told he was 79/80 years old when he hid it. If this was the spot, I wonder what made it so special? Either way, it looked like it was a beautiful day for a search whether it is or isn’t the spot.

        • Hello Cholly. It’s possible, but somehow it’s hard for me to see Mr. Fenn asking searchers/families to wade across and having their footwear get wet. This is just my thought and could very well be wrong.

    • They said the solution was sent anonymously from someone to Cowlazers. So not there solution.
      Its interesting but it may be a race to an agenda of ending the doc. Many people on dals also saw numbers in the poem. We know several who where close.

    • Having watched the video, I don’t know Cynthia et all or their true intentions. And from the video I cannot honestly determine their sincerity.

      But this seems an exaggerated approach to goad the Finder into the conversation.

    • You mean the Bronze sniffing dog in the video? The gps the source told them did not fit the location.
      Did not match. Lots of questions.
      About that. Poor Forrest will they just let him rest in peace?

  15. I like Cynthia and others! Wondering what the 200/500 foot folks think? Those blazes wouldn’t be there 100 years from now is only problem.

    • Yeah it still doesn’t have the “wow” factor that Forrest hinted that we would laugh and say “why did it take me so long?” Also 1.1 miles is not too far to walk. And what about no place for the meek? Still too many questions….

      • KDD, school kids have to walk to school if one mile or less! At least in some states….but agree not much wow, but he said it was special to him. Where is this point in relation to boundaries, borders, counties state lines etc. Is it a unique spot relative to any known event? Did he do some survey work there years ago, make a trail for the park service? I sure thought this site would have shut down by now, it keeps on going, I always looked forward to Sunday nights knowing Dal would have something new going on! Wondering what folks are all up to. I bought a single wide in a senior park, loving it, I call it my summer home! Also, starting to mess around with Robinhood trading Ap and learning about options trading, I guess that what boomers do!

  16. Cho- my blaze is good for a thousand years. I offered to show dal and he optioned to pass and wait for it to play out on blog. Said he was done searching because chest had been found! Btw- i am a 1ft folk.

    • @BRC. intriguing! so many questions to learn answers to from the real finder someday! what’s is worth, was there anything else in there that made the finder make contact, some day, some day!

        • I never believed that knowing about the double omegas would help solve the poem, or confirm a good solve. So I don’t let myself
          be distracted by them. Just another rabbit hole, IMO.

          • tall andrew
            You may want to rethink the omegas.
            The reason being the omegas shown are upper case,the lower case is the symbol “w”. So it might mean a place in Wyoming that starts with letter w. For instance Fort Washakie. It has the gravesite of Sacajawea, it’s just southeast of Yellowstone, where warm waters halt and southwest of Thermopolis, a famous Greek battle site.
            It’s the area where Leonister of the Spartans fought off the persian invasion.

            Or it could mean that chest never left New Mexico.
            It may be the Omega site on omega road in Loa Alamos.
            just saying
            w

        • tall andrew
          In my solve it,s 660′ from the blaze.
          line 16 Take just ten chain paces to hedge.
          line 9 ca.(about) three plethron from item of seek.
          a plethron is ancient Greek linear of about 100′, it also has another value. In area measurement it’s ten thousand 200 sq. feet, I think we have heard that number from ff.
          w

          • tall andrew

            I’m sorry I didn’t explain the 3 plethron,I was interrupted
            with a major catastrophe, I forgot and left the toilet seat up,again, which my wife DID NOT find amusing at all and let know it. Anyway, the 300 feet is the distance from the entrance to the location of the blaze to the blaze. Sorry bout that.
            w

          • Hi Wayne.

            I was reading your conversation and I hope you don’t mind a question.

            You mentioned something about the Entrance to a Location, and Blaze to Blaze being 300 feet.

            Are you saying you have a Fake Blaze and it is 300 feet to the real Blaze…or maybe I missed some of the conversation.

  17. Cynthia & team,

    That was a really nice way to wrap it up and find personal closure. I appreciate your well thought out team oriented solution.

    After watching the video I am very interested to know your thoughts on the following:

    1. If you found the hiding spot, what do you believe made that exact location so very special to Forrest? Did he camp there with skippy? Was there a favorite fishing hole nearby?

    2. As a Montana native, the 1988 Yellowstone Park fire is still paramount in my memory. We locals watched helplessly for months as the BLM/federal gov’t & Bill Clinton refused to step in and fight the fire which wiped out 793,880 acres or 36 percent of a national treasure…YNP.

    In 2017 when I visited Forrest at his home we spoke of how sad/empty the fire left both of us, noting it took 30-40 years for the land to heal itself from the fire. Because of my conversation with Forrest regarding the Yellowstone Park fire and our mutual distaste for BLM fire policy, I personally don’t believe he left his treasure trove inside YNP. Additionally, Forrest spoke of the devastating fire at Viveash Mesa. Given those thoughts Forrest spoke about, do you believe he left his treasured possessions in a national park where the governing laws state that all lightening fires must be left to run the course of nature…or burn themselves out even if those fires burn down our nations treasured lands?

    These are just my thoughts, but perhaps a piece of the puzzle needed to understand Forrest and lead to the location.

    • The location of the hidey place may be relatively safe from forest fires. Yeah, I
      know what FF said about the possible scorching. If you can imagine a small
      grove of trees, or even a single tree, surrounded by relatively bare, rocky ground, on a mountainside or low area where lightning won’t strike, then it might be likely that a forest fire wouldn’t have fuel in order to spread to that small grove or single tree . . . barring arson or something like that caused by people. As always, IMO.

  18. Cynthia , thank you for the video. I always love to see Yellowstone, beautiful.

    The DOODLE that Forrest sent you is really good. Everyone do themselves a favor and google Doodle wikipedia and etymology of the word. It ties to Drawing in the poem and Forrest last story to us the squirt. A doodle is a Dude. A doodle is a fantasy or Thrill.

    Also the pad next to the phone in scrapbook 107 is a Doodle pad. Forrest was referencing doodle in that scrapbook. Doodle means fool or simpleton. Forrest always said he was a simple man. A simple man is also Rustic which means wood.

    Notice in the scrapbook how Forrest is mad or angry. He even says mad in the Squirt story which also references the same big idea. A fool is a madman. When I think of madman I think of madison.

    The doodle that Forrest gave you shows a female jumping. In the original picture to Ardia there are flames and a demon in the underground. This is no place for the meek. Interesting that Gibbon means demon. The lar Gibbon.

    But I also think that Forrest may be representing the Madison as madman and therefore no place for the meek. So does the picture say you must cross the Madison? Miss Ford means cross. By a Bridge on the Madison in Wyoming? Not sure but I do know that Forrest referenced Doodle in both stories SB 107 and the squirt and there are doodles everywhere in scrabooks and in the book TTOTC. The first time I read the book I said to myself why so many pencil drawings or sketches in a fancy looking book? Now I know they are doodles.

    • Doodle is to scribble or Write. Write is also a clerk or Secretary.

      A secretary is a person who keeps secrets. Interesting that the Madison is named after James Madison, Secretary of state.

      Just a thought but the Madiosn and Gibbon areas seem like he is hinting to those areas in his last writings or doodles to us.

  19. Thanks for giving us this SB and sharing this clip with us Dal. Hearing Forrest narrate these moments on film is priceless. It made me sad though to think of all the human loss and destruction of such beautiful lands. But I guess some things will never change…….

  20. In light of any GPS solution, I would echo remarks from those who identify what appears to be stark inaccuracies in Forrest’s comments about the chase over the years. If this be the reality, our efforts to decipher the narrative “clues” would have been futile. Meaningless narrative “clues” would have protected the chest from avid searchers who discounted shortcuts as Forrest advised. A close focus on the poem narrative content may have made it actually harder to find the chest. If the coordinates were indeed embedded in the poem, then these many inconsistencies become hard to politely resolve. We all hope that talk of a GPS solution is soon busted, but if not, let me at least try to make a stab at it.

    The idea of an embedded double (omega) solution could provide loyalists at least a partial defense against claims that we were all intentionally misled. I am not cynical enough to believe that Forrest purposely sabotaged our progress over all these years. That makes less sense than the GPS solution itself. If this GPS solution is confirmed, I instead would like to believe that Forrest assumed that the narrative clues were far more likely to lead to the chest than his hidden staircase. He might have imagined that the coordinates would only be discovered years after the finder described his or her route through the nine narrative clues. This double embedded solution would then have been amusing. He also may have assumed that no one would give serious consideration to any of the many poem coordinate solutions without a narrative interpretation that already brought the searcher to the brink. Either way, his focus would have been legitimatedly on his conventional (general) nine-clue solution as always assumed. In this eventuality, searchers could fault him for outsmarting himself with the embedded coordinates, but not necessarily feel sabotaged by purposeful misdirection.

    The problem with a benign double embedded solution, however, is that the DeLacy Creek entry seems to leave searchers out in the brush more than 1,600 feet from the possible tree blazes. An acceptable “general” solution should have had an even higher potential for intersecting those two curious blaze trees. I’m inclined to think that a western Norris Pass entrance might be worth closer consideration. Yes, the canyon down (south) would be less than 3,000 feet (hardly too far to walk), but Norris Pass was an old trail (definitely not for the meek) between “two unnamed hills” (heavy loads?) along the Continental Divide. A Brown connection to the pass originators (Philetus and/or John Norris) could not be found, but perhaps other searchers would be more successful. The interesting benefit of a Norris Pass HOB would be that it spits searchers out just southwest of the chest (44.432011, -110.707432). The end of the chase would then have been drawing nigh (to the left). From that spot the wise searcher would hike dead straight to the water high intersection of Dry (no paddle) and DeLacy Creeks in pursuit of the blaze(s) which would be intersected just 700
    feet away. The absence of a Brown connection to Norris Pass is obviously problematic, but the obscure, distant, and imprecise DeLacy Creek connections to the chest are equally dubious. There must be a better explanation for Forrest’s communications about the narrative clues if he knew that there was also a poem shortcut. In lieu of the finder coming out of his inexplicable seclusion, this quandary will remain. Without an explanation from the finder, it seems unwise to dismiss out of hand Kpro’s evidence that her source was informed regarding a GPS solution.

    • And if the Caldera ever actually blew, it would have never been found. Believe that Forrest was much smarter than to put it in that area.

    • Alan King

      I think the poem gives us the GPS of the chest and the blaze.

      line 13: you have found the blaze be wise ‘n find TEE
      tee in ancient greek numbers: T=300 E=5 = 355
      line 14 has 7 words and 31 letters =731. now add 3+1=4 , 31-7=24. why add and subtract, he told us to do this in his sb 102, he was trying to find Dal’s age.

      So the gps is 35*54’24” N Lat. on google maps it’s 35.906666
      line twelve: 106*18’7.2″ W or on google it’s 106.301988W. 1988
      by the way this is the year or “grapette”, that he got got sick.
      grape is synonym for year.
      w

      • Grape-makes wine? Paseo de Peralta? Spanish wine? Maybe ff preferred a little Sherry wine with his enchaladas (he always called them that). Don’t forget the car show with the flashy silver hot rod!

      • There were two trees on opposite sides of the nook with bark curiously cut away. They apparently later concluded that the blaze was actually the coordinates themselves which would make the entire solution the derivation of the coordinates from the poem. IMO that would render all of the other narrative clues pretty much irrelevant. Conversely, the two tree cut outs did look pretty unusual given their distinctive location. They at least keep a viable narrative solution alive which is pretty important to me if this GPS location proves true.

        • I agree with you Alan, this is really a stretch in my mind as well.

          First, the blaze will be there a 1000 years from now. A tree will not.
          And the finder took the picture of the chest only a few feet from where he found it he told us and in the reflection is a clear view of a Mountain. You can’t see a mountain in all that dense forest.
          Also no place for the meek is not to go on foot. To go on foot or hike is a great thing, not scary.
          Too many holes in this solve. Did I just say hole?

          Atleast Forrest gave Cynthia a nice doodle of Miss Ford.

  21. nomadic

    sorry wasn’t quite clear on that.
    As I read the poem it will take you to the entrance where blaze is, it’s another 300′ feet to the blaze.

  22. Now that’s some impressive video. I had to smile while listening to it. And watching those shockwaves bursting below was crazy.

    It’s kinda like everything else in life…outa sight, outa mind. It happens all the time for many. Mother nature is a good example of that thinking/stigma as well.outa sight, outa mind.

    ByGeorge

    • Patients is a virtue. Like curing prosciutto – you can’t cut corners. Like the bailiff said to the bread “please rise.”

      • Or like what the timekeeper said to the scale – “let’s just watch and weight.”

        Yes, patience is a virtue – but if you wait too long the weather may change.

        • Well, if I pro-rate the remainder Of the search season, I figure it’s equal to at least another 6 weeks. Just need to gather enough funds to fix the head gasket seal on my LR Discovery II (most people would’ve junked her by now). The stars are better seen in winter anyway. Prob head out 1 last town around Black Friday.

  23. So far, all “correct” solves presented have one thing in common. They underestimate the genius of Forrest Fenn. It took him 15 years to design. It took someone 5 years to crack. Expect a puzzle like you’ve never seen before. Expect a correct solve that requires a long complex explanation, but in the end even a child can understand. Expect a solve that brings together elements from the poem, the books, the scrapbooks, videos, interviews etc. all carefully woven together into a brilliant integrated artistic masterpiece. If it doesn’t meet that criteria it’s not the real McCoy. Wait for it. It will be worth the wait. In the mean time, enjoy the Tomfoolery.

    • Who exactly is going to provide the solve?
      THE POEM WILL TAKE YOU TO THE TREASURE IF YOU CAN SOLVE THE NINE CLUES. end of story.

    • So…..in conclusion, what you are saying is –
      don’t beat around the bush, say it simple, say it plain, say it so even a child can understand it. I gotcha ya. Did I get it right?

    • I couldn’t agree more. Many things cluster together from the poem, books, scrapbooks, interviews, ideas, etc. etc. For example, you can find the axe, the broken Moses (actually Jesus), the bell, the bird, the alligator, the lunch bucket lady, an Indian on horse back, a woman in gaucho pants, etc. and dozens of things. For example… the alligator, Indian on horse back, the lunch bucket lady and woman in gaucho pants are all sculptures/bronzes except the alligator is more of a welded metal artwork. All in Laramie. All on ‘main streets’ all in Cowboy (U of W) country. He talks about the Main Street cowboys. Check out the main streets of cowboy student country…a.k.a. Laramie. His favorite archeologist spent many years there. The one who validated his greatest collectible…the Fenn Cache. How does he pay him back? By weaving in Laramie.

  24. In Scrapbook 247 – “Wherever the Bugle Blows”, Forrest repeated his story of being rescued in South Vietnam. The collage painting of the Stars and Stripes shows that he is a proud American that will defend his country. However, I believe he learned that everything is not always what you are told.

    This story is repeated throughout history. Every time gold was found on American Indian land, suddenly treaties were broken.

    He gave us many words that were key; contentment was one such word. It will get you one step closer to your personal treasure.

    ~nm

    • I had always thought that Forrest was going to blow the bugle to start the Chase this season. It was a short season…but it does seem to be dragging on.

      I had thought the use of STARS again was a hint. I guess the Finder knows.

      • I know that the Beartooth highway is closed. I think Yellowstone roads close on November 2nd. As for the rest of the Rockies I’m not sure, not much to see there far as treasure boxes go I don’t reckon. Down with Wyoming solves.

      • nomadic
        I agree I think the blaze was the N.M. state flag, a red zuni star on a yellow background. Did you know that it’s the only state flag that does not have the colors blue or white, ever notice that seemed to be wearing a blue and white shirt? Did you ever notice the hide on his wall behind his couch has a sun on it? And have you noticed the statue of RA hanging
        on his wall a Zuni pot.
        w

        • Wayne, you bring up some thoughts that are new to me. I missed that star and I will check out the others. I have researched and searched both New Mexico and Wyoming, and they were both great solutions. I am still open minded about what the ending is. If the Finder does not tell us, I will be searching until something makes sense…or until I return to the stars.

      • Stars Stars and more Stars. You should have it all figured out by now. Keep reaching, for the stars. There’s over a billion to choose from. Keep it simple. Don’t get confused and good luck to ya! Oops…only 999,999,999 to go.

          • JDA – If I didn’t know better, I might assume you were trying to pull the wool somewhere… but I’m too busy watching your awesome dance moves!

  25. nomadic
    I don’t know what happened but the last sentence of my post got edited, it should say,
    the lamp on his side table is a Zuni pot made into a lamp.
    w

  26. nomadic
    Nice to see the interest
    I have some more finds to consider.
    If you can find the time watch the video in sb 187. Notice the dress Kerri is wearing, sun dress
    blue and white F’s, shirt same. Notice the logo on the boy’s shirt it’s a sign of the zodiac for pisces and if you remember Peggy wearing her bathing suit with the sign for saggitarius, it looks like an anchor, both are symbols for the sun.
    I have many finds if you are interested. Like the name Willie, as in Willie and Linda Loma in death of of a salesman, it’s very similar to Linda Lomar park in Los Alamos.
    Oh I almost forgot the jacket from Viet Nam , the American flag next to a star with years 66-67 these numbers are important the show up in some other sb. So if you’re interested I have lots more this just the beginning, let me know.

    • Wayne, I watched the video in 187 last night. Nice family and I looked at the dress color and pattern. It did not connect with me, but I did notice the star on the jacket.

      The question is, what does it mean. I like your ideas.

      • nomadic

        the colors on the dress a blue and white sundress: N.M. state flag is the only state flag that doesn’t have those colors. Did you see the sculpture of RA, the Egyptian God of the sun, the lamp beside his couch, it’s
        Zuni pottery made into a lamp. The Zuni revered the sun. It has four points representing the the four points on a compass,you have heard f say ” all you need is a compass and a good map,” also the four parts to a day, morning, afternoon,evening,night,” f hid the chest in one afternoon”, it also meant the four stages of life,” infant,childhood,adult
        old age. isn’t that what his book is all about, his four stages of life?
        in other words he references Zuni symbol thru out his sb’s and his stories. The Zuni indians lived on the Parijito Plateau only they called it Tsideh.
        My find on this is Line four
        In endow ranchland of Tsideh
        I think what he is saying here the Loa Lamos Ranchschool in Los Alamos.
        Ashley Pond founded the school and named the place Loa Alamos
        which means the poplars or cottenwoods.
        He once talked about how he would fly round Europe with atomic bombs on his wings, not true they did not do that, it was to dangerous.
        He also told a story about his Plymouth Tudor that was found by a prof. at the National Lab. in Loa Alamos, also not true. Plymouth did not make a Tudor, Ford did, it was the only car to have a V8, witch by the way was Clyde Barrows favorite car to steal. That’s some of reasons why I’m thinking that the chest never left N.M.
        I have lots more.

    • Brian u,

      Since Forrest has been gone, I’m not sure there’s anyone tending the juniper on the fire anymore. I did get an automated text message reply from someone named Jennifer, but the response seemed kind of rude, so I’m not sure email is the right way either.

      Truth is, I’ve been using smoke signals for a long time without any positive response. Maybe I’m speaking the wrong native language. Then again, maybe I’m waving the wrong checkered blanket. 🙂

      It’s official… “Yep, I Don’t Know”

      • Thanks for the link Dal. I replied on the Peggy page when I should have replied here. It says that the new revised edition of “Once upon a while” has a new 40th story. I wonder what that could be……..

        • I read it twice the other night. And just like most of the SB’s it’s brutal. Right brain/left brain or no brain/brainer.

          But last night I was looking at the scope of the enormity of the Chase, and to me it’s mind bogglingly crazy.

          The crops coming along and I really just want to enjoy some time to myself. Should be enjoyable.

          ByGeorge

      • I appreciate that the Fenn family needed closure from this chase.

        I wonder if they are selling off Forrest’s collections or converting his home into a Santa Fe museum?

      • My only on-going concern is Forrest’s Cancer Fund from TTOTC book sales.That fund had gotten quite large the last time I saw the numbers and that was after Forrest had helped at least two folks with an infusion of cash to pay for cancer treatment costs. Not only do I want to see the fund continue to grow but I’d like to see it administered properly.
        Unfortunately, the family has not said anything about that fund. I hope they don’t think we forgot about it.

        • Dal,
          You’re right. Continuing to help cancer patients would be really important to Forrest.

          Perhaps you could ask Dorothy and Shiloh who will be stewarding those funds in Forrest’s honor going forward.
          They may have forgotten.

      • Thank you Dal for all these exciting years. I hope the thrill is not over, as i predict that the real finder (not in Medium) will release a few pieces of evidence and eventually some clues one day. I am sure the finder must have tied hands and probably dealing with ff’s lawyers, but it is Forrest’s wishes. I know who the lucky one is, but I won’t to say. He truly is the nicest man and almost as genius as FF! 🙂 Hope you are well Dal!

  27. Because Dal’s site has been like Forrest medium for all. We all were left thinking our
    own thoughts. You know no solve no nothing and selling it and the suitcase thing.
    The place is not for me to visit. I guess I could express my thought.
    I liked calling the chase epic. But I think that Folk Lore for me is more fitting.
    My own thoughts. You have three books. Titled for purpose. Filled with interesting
    some personal stories. Life filled with thrilling chase. A place unreachable and
    To fish the heavens for the Pioneers. IMO only. First the familiar comfort of home
    and fire place. A second Omega. The what if’s. A heavens water stop. Why/Y….. to go east
    and straight for a paradise. To lay one’s self there and watch. This is where you reach
    Folk Lore. Not for me to visit. I stayed home too. Would you be able to greet someone.
    A cowboy on horse stops and looks up say’s did you do that you rascal. An indian runs
    and jumps over. Waiting to greet a wagon. Thats where I reach Folk Lore.
    I would say to Forrest that home is where the heart is and the preferred one.
    Omega one to myself.
    Ok back to earth. Lets see. The park rangers. You can’t pitch pup tents here.
    Hey who put this bell here. Shoshone lake has good fishing, big Browns and a
    long way to go. How much of Yellowstone was half fishing and half exploring
    back in those years ago. I researched isa lake a few years ago. North of it is
    a granite quarry the base stones for the fireplace at old faithful Inn were taken.
    I like the one about the old restaurant guy ordered teas from around the globe.

    I hope the Fenn family is doing well. I ordered a small grove. Five trees for Santa Fe
    Forrest.
    I just posted again with all the excitement as of late. I don’t know anything about
    forrest thoughts. We know he got better and it messed up his first plan.
    I express opinions with no real knowledge of anything.
    But sense home is where my heart is and computer.
    I felt I wanted to make another post. Mostly to wish Kelly and Zoe some wellness.
    And a pocket full of stars to Forrest. You Rascal you.
    Mark..

    • Good info Markt. I feel that Forrest was not only a rascal but also a Rogue. Forrest liked the word Maverick however.
      Folklore upon the chase was built for the thrill is what we seek. The idol or fetish is our reward.
      The secret is kept where. And why must he go and leave his possessions here. Again the Rogue is asking an answer he has already knowledge too.

      Learn from your history common folks and teach your children where.

  28. The tone of this Scrapbook and also other stories of Forrest’s sometimes remind me of “The Things They Carried”. Like that book, understanding the feeling of a story is more important than the literal facts especially when it’s personally told- and especially when it is intended to teach a lesson.

  29. Your Best Shot

    Admitted, I liked the game a lot
    Too, others played who now are hot
    Some with fever, some snorting snot
    Still others pleased with what they got.

    Some can do and others teach
    Some sit high and live to preach
    Some the thrill wish to leach
    I’ll admit it was beyond my reach.

    Some say, he should have
    Some say, I would have
    Some bray, I could have
    If only this, I might have.

    You can’t confess you had fun?
    Then you’re stopped, your turn is done
    Take the fork, embrace your run
    Reach back, go glad , for the one.

    Again, he has gone alone
    To a place where memory is not
    Trapped in this flesh and bone.
    Nay, he revels, he gave it his best shot.

    • 4rest4fend,

      I kinda miss all the journeys y’all took us on. This was a pleasant reminder.

      I confessed and it only costed me 390.00! But I also can confess that I had a ROYAL BLAST! But a rollercoaster of a ride of highs n lows it was and we all had those.

      The amazing cast? It’s pretty “cool”. It’s like the hardest test EVER! And I just smile and reflect on all the Chasing I did, with the run-a-rounds I took and dished out…And I got to play!

      That simple fact that I was allowed to play really is all that matters to me. It’s hard to explain but I really miss those two. I confess.

      ByGeorge

  30. JDA, bloggers here raised thousands of $ to fund Focussed on publishing his book of poetry. I haven’t seen anything from Focussed. Do you know anything about the book of poetry being completed.

    • James Bynum (Focused) had a couple of personal issues for a bit, that took him away from editing, but is now hard at work on getting the book edited and doing layout. It is now moving along nicely, as I undwesrand. Hope to hear from James soon with some good news – JDA

  31. My wife was 16 days old when Forrest bombed near her hometown Pleiku. Her birthday is 6/6/68. They tell me stories but I cannot imagine the terror of the North Vietnamese/US conflicts which lead to their coming to the US finally in the Fall of Saigon.

  32. I wish I could have have a book of all the scrapbooks together. I know 39-40 of them were in once upon a while, but I wish I could have them all with their pictures as well. Wishful thinking.

  33. Poem, Make Something

    When you make a goal
    are you lost or found?
    Are you a happy soul
    or loosely bound?

    Do you need direction
    or do you know the way?
    Will triumph escape detection
    or find a brighter day?

    And a two beat poem
    the shadow of a smile
    Left us and rows that need hoein’
    Owing to owning our own once upon while.

  34. I have not posted for awhile but you would think that positive thinkers
    could put our thoughts together to figure the end results of this poem.
    AIMO besides coordinates in the poem there is an address that starts you where wwh is in my opinion.The hob is there the wise is there and you don’t have to go in one .

  35. Question….
    The first photo of the “found” chest shows a rusted key. The key has a hole in the handle end.

    In Scrapbook 158 it shows a photo of a pre-hidden chest with a key that has a solid handle end….no hole. These are definitely different keys.

    So if it is a different key, is it also a different chest?? Two different keys wouldn’t open the same chest.

    • landhigh

      I looked at 158 but could not find the, maybe need new specs, i’ll call my optomertrist, C.F Eye care, for an exam.
      But I think if the key is there f wanted you look at it.
      Remember he said people are missing a key word I think that word was answers.
      You probably noticed although I haven’t seen anyone mention it that the poem
      in TFTW the “s” in answers is missing.
      If one was to count the number of letters in the poems you’ll find that there 602 letters in TTOTC, and 601 letters in TFTW. Using the word key
      to confirm my thinking, I went to Thesaurus .com scrolled down and found
      the word answer and answers. I think this was the clue that he said didn’t realize was in TFTW.
      I think this was a very very big clue, in that it, with a little math, it will give the route number that will take you to chest location.re if you
      I have more if interested.
      w

      w

          • ByGeorge,

            Are you saying the plastic containers above the bracelet look like a flag?

            What about the gold nuggets on top of them. In many photos they have the same arrangement…maybe in the shape of a cross or crucifix. I never made sense of it, unless it indicates that the gold is where he will eventually reside.

          • Nomadicmadman,

            I was looking at the top of the key that’s below the bracelet. It looks like a party mask now, the kind that you would have to hold up.

            I’m going crosseyed! But I’ll peak at the plastic containers. Combine rollin!

            ByGeorge

      • Wayne,
        When Forrest was asked about that missing “S”
        he said it didn’t matter in solving the poem. (Paraphrased)

        I’m not sure if The exact quote is here or at Mysterious Writings. Perhaps Zaphod has the reference .

        • Wayne,
          Here is the quote from MW about the missing S

          The Letter Count of the Poem is of no relevance to the solution needed to find the Treasure Chest.

          Mr. Fenn,

          After locating the Blaze in the poem by solving the clues, and having been led to the chest, I was disheartened to learn that there are two different versions of the poem. The version found on The Thrill of the Chase Resource page online shows:

          The answer I already know

          While the version published in your memoir reads:

          The answers I already know

          Based on the way the clues are solved to this point, it is obvious that every word and every letter are crucial. I was hoping you would be able to clarify which version of the poem is correct. Should the word answer have an S on the end to make it plural? Pehaps this one letter has no bearing on the final solution, but it is something that continually weighs on my mind.

          Hope all is well!

          Archie

          Archie,

          It makes no difference, one of them is only an innocent typo. You can pick which one. f

          • Archie
            remember ff always picked his words very carefully.
            If the s is a clue he is not going to confirm or deny.
            I looked up the word relevance, it has many meanings.
            Like necessity meaning it’s not really needed but helpful.
            It also means: check,indulgence,liaison we have heard these words from him before.
            have more if interested.
            w

        • Hi 42,

          My final solve attempt in Colorado actually led to an “S”. Then when it was announced the treasure was found in Wyoming my solve attempt there also led to an “S”. The Colorado solve provided a heading to the Wyoming location.

          A fun tidbit is the “S” on the side of the Sangre de Christos mountains outside of Santa Fe that is visible in Winter formed by the snowpack. We could see it regularly from the Los Alamos Mesa where I grew up.

    • Hi Landhigh — been away from Dal’s for some time so slow to see your post about the key in SB 158. Since no one yet correctly answered your discrepancy question, I can tell you that that key is for winding the gold repeater watch that the dragon coat bracelet is encircling. You can see the circular winding hole near the top of the watch.

  36. Has anyone ever been out to Enduring Falls on Buffallo Creek in Yellowstone? And is it called something else now? It doesn’t have it listed on Google Earth, but it is on Natural Atlas. Does anyone have a picture of it?

      • Thanks, pdenver. It’s weird that you can find that on Natural Atlas but not on Google Earth. There are a lot of similarities between the word endure and the poem. Even down to the origin of the word.
        From a word for a tree known for its hard and durable wood, we get endure, a word that evokes both lastingness (durability) and the ability to withstand or bear. Its history tells you why.
        Some synonyms of endure: brave, go through, take, know, stick.
        Some antonyms of endure: Cease, go, leave, halt.
        That could be what he meant by “riches new and old.” He’s describing endure and the opposite of endure.

  37. “Confusion or Coincidence”

    Coincidences, what might they be
    an answer a question some say the key
    Decisions made to change our fate
    wavering again at a much latter date

    The path we take some keep it straight
    within obstacles formed by others debate
    A word a statement a thought from the past
    to make you believe you found it at last

    An opinion to me a fact to you
    maybe made up or possibly true
    A story passed on or embellished a tad
    it’s all the new rage a new aged fad

    A story read from a page in a book
    to make you think to take one more look
    Words viewed often changing another view
    with no common sense like sheep some ensue

    In these time of communication so quick
    in an instant much pain others inflict
    So it’s best most times to stay in the grey
    think for ourselves and mean what we say

    Are you sure I said that or did they say this
    I’m not sure actually what was their gist?
    Confusion, coincidence I’d say not
    Seems it’s happens to some quite a lot

    I’m no different mostly like the rest
    I tell the truth and try to do my best
    To take others words with a grain of salt
    Only blaming myself no others at fault

    So chive on peace out stay calm some axioms say
    Enjoy some nature before it all goes away
    The only thing constant are the stars in the sky
    We all live a life sooner or later we die

    At the end coincidences can often be real
    tend not to be fake become the real deal
    That certain feeling that brought you a chill
    Ending the chase with a hell of a thrill.

    Some leave a history of whom they are
    Others an asterisk or an unnamed star.
    The lucky venture out searching beyond what they found
    It can only be done with “ Boots On The Ground”

    • Wizened Word-smithey
      Whistles Wel-comely
      When Winds Wail Wildly
      Where We Waiting Would Wish
      One With Wisdom Would Willingly Whisper

      1 Tailblazer,
      Loved your poem

  38. Had to go back and watch the video again. Arc light came to mind and when I saw what exactly it was and did, I had imagined Mr. Fenn being in the forest with this happening. He told the story in “My War for Me”. My gosh! I think I would have thought, “This is it!”

  39. “Wonka vision”

    As we enter this new world of Wonka
    the steaming breath of Tatanka
    Down near the water the willows are a stir
    lush beneath the arms of the overlooking firs
    It’s the peace we are aiming to achieve
    It’s what we thought it’s what we would believe.
    The rhyme stated so brilliantly by Gene
    has definitely always been my favorite movie scene
    begin with lots of sweets and candy
    what appears as fine and dandy
    “Then around the world and back again
    This is kinda strange there’s no earthly way of knowing
    Which direction we are going
    There’s no knowing where we’re rowing
    Or which way the rivers flowing
    Is it raining is it snowing
    Is a Hurricane a blowing
    Not a speck of light is showing
    So the danger must be a growing
    Are the fires of hell a growing
    Is the Grizzly reaper mowing
    Yes the danger must be growing
    For the rowers keep on rowing
    And they’re certainly are not showing any
    signs they are are slowing.”

    Wonka blows the whistle at the end
    Is this the story of Forrest Fenn?
    Instead of a whistle he rang of a bell
    You find the spot cause I’ll never tale?

  40. We started this Chase learning of a case
    a missing person it seems
    We drove to a spot got out the cot
    set up to follow our dreams

    As we our made camp looking like tramps
    with a half grown scraggly beard
    He said to begin IT it could be infinite
    but it’s really the grizzly we’d feared

    He was the king this living thing that could tear a man to bits
    But all the thinking and nervous blinking
    was nerve racking I’d admit

    We brought bear spray that Autumn day
    and headed for the hills
    Looking up a tree grizzly claws I could see
    Was this the chase, the thrill

    We made lots of noise like 10 year old boys and headed into the brush
    Hey bear hey bear come out of your lair
    we yelled without a hush

    Without a warning any type of forlorning we heard a very loud crash
    The willows were whipping dirt was a flipping
    Something began to thrash

    With bear spray in hand feet firmly in sand this standoff not so funny
    It must be a beast looking to feast
    out came a furry bunny

    We laughed and laughed threw down our staffs and breathed a sigh of relief
    This searching for treasure can be a pleasure
    But also can bring lots a grief

    We got out in the woods like the poem said we should to breath a breathe of fresh air
    Chasing a chase leaving no trace
    You say the Warm Waters were where?

  41. Hello everyone,
    Since the poetry page and others ( odds and ends etc) are closed to comments ill post here. To 42 and everyone wondering about the quill of the chase. Things are now moving on my end again. I posted a few weeks back an update but it was removed because of where I placed it. I was set back a few months with personal issues but now things are going good. If you haven’t emailed me for a reminder when b its ready, or just want to chat my email is springtime1996@hotmail.com . I’ve sorry for being so slow, but for a while other things took priority…
    I decided to put “all” my poems in the book, not just the favorites… so when its released you will have the good, bad and the ugly so to speak.. lol
    Thanks to everyone for your patience… I hope you have a great evening….. until next time…. see ya

    Focused

    • Thanks for the update Focused. Any guesses as to when we might be able to buy “The Quill of the Chase? Glad things are going better for you now – STAY SAFE – JDA

      • Not yet JDA, when I get an approximate date I’ll let you know and when its ready I’ll email to everyone who requested it and post here also….
        Have a great night…my friend.. until next time… see ya

  42. Focused: Always have loved your words, happy for ya that all’s good and moving forward with your book. I love the good the bad and the ugly, look forward to it. Thanks

    Thanks 4rest4fend!!

  43. Some thought,

    Sorry Dal, only place of Dal to express.

    I’ve read The blogs and the chats.
    I’ve seen hostility, anger from the brats.
    I’ve seen compassion losing to each other.
    I’ve heard that entitlement is just another.

    FF told us all of what state.
    FF knew some would never take.
    FF own words were oppose with opposition.
    FF test proved all those superstitions.

    So why ask, where is this finder.
    so why ask him to be also kinder.
    So I expect he must deliver.
    So why is it he sits and shivers.

    We may know some day ahead.
    We may hear a voice and something read.
    We may understand to some degree.
    We may remember that great old tree.

    But not just yet.

    He said you will now, Grasshopper.

  44. With Forrest now gone, ALL I GET ARE “UNFULFILLED” dreams with the possibility of never finding out who retrieved the treasure. It’s almost like the end of the rainbow has been moved, with some vicious elf having stolen the gold and vanished into thin air.

    On the other hand, I can’t help but think that the treasure is still out there waiting for someone. Maybe if we continued to hold onto those dreams, while keeping a proper gait (or stride) in our adventures, it might allow one of us to cross destiny’s far-off finish line.

    It’s nearly like there’s a sign in everything that’s happened. Almost like Forrest is still trying to relay valuable information. Additionally, I can’t help but wonder if there are things that some people know and they’re just not telling us. What about Forrest’s statement, two can keep a secret if one of them is dead? Are there people out there hiding things?

    Due to the confusion, I sometimes feel like jumping off an old iron bridge somewhere. Not for suicidal reasons, but more just to jar me awake… maybe have the cold splash of water bring me back to my senses.

    In a way I guess I’m still waiting for more news. After all, Forrest was the type of person to boldly face the inevitable, make detailed plans, and be fully prepared for anything. Why would this change with his passing? Did he no longer care about us or the Chase?

    I’m not mad (not in the normal sense anyway), just bewildered. Surely he would have included “more” information, right? Why would he simply leave us searchers to Fenn for ourselves? (pun remorsefully intended)

    • Suzy, I understand your frustration. The end of The Chase has as many mysteries as the beginning. The way lawsuits are casually tossed around like hot cakes in this country, you can’t blame the finder for wanting to stay anonymous though. If it were me, I’d probably do the same thing.
      You never know, maybe the hunt will begin again one day. In one of the last interviews Forrest did about The Chase, KPro asked him if the person who finds the chest will own it. He said, ” I say in the poem, I give you title to the gold.” And then he added, “but there’s a lot of subchapter S’s to that rule too.” I wonder what he meant by that? Maybe the finder is tasked with hiding the gold himself.
      And you can still solve the poem. Forrest said the finder would move with confidence. So I take it that once you’re on the right path, it will be fairly obvious. What better way to honor Forrest than to work on something he worked on for so many years?
      Have you ever visited Yellowstone before? I’ve been looking for someone that knows a bit about a place called Enduring Falls that’s up Buffalo Creek.

      • Sorry NoName06, I’ve never been to Enduring Falls, nor Buffalo Creek, so I can’t help you there. Although, I must say, I’ve been Buffaloed before. Here’s a short story to prove that.

        Recently, my husband talked me into raising chickens so we bought a few cute little chicks really cheap. Since we already had a chicken coop, it seemed ideal and thought it would be good way to save some money while getting free eggs. When we bought them, we told the salesman that we wanted all hens since we wanted egg-layers. No problem, right? Except, we were Buffaloed. One of those cute little chicks turned out to be a big atrocious “HE”. Now don’t get me wrong, not that I have anything against “HE’s”, it just that “HE” likes to crow constantly. Morning, noon, or night, it makes no difference… all we hear is cock-a-doodle-doo!

        What’s really annoying, though, is that one corner of the fence enclosure comes within 15 feet of our house. Even though the shed would block most of the noise (if he stayed on that side), he seems to like spending the majority of his time in the 4 foot open corner section. I’m not sure why that is, but it’s almost like he’s purposefully trying to intimidate us and get us to come out after him. I know it sounds crazy, but he’s really getting on my last nerve.

        To be honest, I just want to go out and belt that chicken! Maybe he’d change his tune if I threatened to serve him up for supper! …Buffalo wings and all!

        • LOL Sorry, Suzy. Your story made me laugh. Try and look at it this way. The seller unknowingly gave you hen eggs for life! With the male hen you can make other little hens. Also, you can make the male hen feel good about himself because he has no other competition. He will respect you for it.
          On The Chase, look up the word endure sometime. Look at the synonyms, antonyms, and most importantly, the historical useage of that word. You will start to see a lot of words from the poem. I think the whole first stanza tells you that. When he says hint of riches new and old, I think he’s talking about opposites. So the rest of the poem is giving you examples of enduring and the opposite of enduring. As an example, “Not far, but too far to walk.” He gives you both in that one line.

        • NoName06 and nomadicMadman, I’ll say one thing… that chicken sure has an enduring sense of humor.

          And whether good or bad, you can forget about the Buffalo… “I’ve been Roostered!”

    • Suzy_S,

      I am hoping that Indulgence ends up in a museum sooner than later. I would like to visit her…I think it’s a her/she; Hershey.

      Will I be satisfied then? Probably not. I hope the Finder divulges where in Wyoming it was found…maybe a hint or a clue. Otherwise, it will turn into a life long pursuit. Perhaps a quest. Will we ever be normal/normaller again?

  45. For those who aren’t on THOR, a close friend of Forrest’s named Russ has been sharing some great stories and pictures over there. Here are a couple recent examples — @Dal: did you ever open up Forrest’s autobiography?? It was right there on the shelf, four rows below the sabre tooth cat:

    https://www.hintofriches.com/forum/the-hint-of-riches/214861-when-i-read-forrest-s-autobiography

    Here is another Russ story that shows interesting differences between some of Forrest’s quotes, and the same ones in James Parsons’ book “The Art Fever”. At the top of the chapter “The Wizard of Oz” (a title which should raise eyebrows for more than a few searchers), the French tombstone quote spells vale “veil,” and the Edna St. Vincent Millay “Second Fig” poem has “shiney (sic)” instead of “shining”. But much more interesting is the “poem” that begins the next chapter — more specifically, *who* the poem was attributed to. Either “Happy” misremembered what his grandmother told him, or his grandmother misremembered the song lyrics from “I’m Waiting For Ships that Never Come In” (Jack Yellen, 1919):

    https://www.hintofriches.com/forum/the-hint-of-riches/213415-forrest-as-the-wizard-of-oz

      • Thank you so much for this link, zaphod. I really enjoyed reading Russ’ story. I thought it was great Mr. Fenn got a signed book from Louis L’Amour. He’s my favorite Western author. When I continued reading on about Mr. Fenn’s father and how he stamped the book several times, I had remembered an earlier scrapbook of Mr. Fenn where he had written, “My Book” all over a page each year and I thought, “Like Father, like Son.” It put a smile on my face.

        • That’s a great association, pdenver, between Forrest’s somewhat eccentric behavior with the “my book” “still my book!” notations all over the place, and his father’s redundant book stamping with his name. It’s like they were overly worried about book theft. Maybe it was a Depression-era idiosyncrasy. 🙂

      • Thanks for the links, Zap! Interesting and intriguing reads!
        When considering the many hands which hold each book, even a dust jacket can become a gem of hidden wealth, quietly recording an integral time-frame of memorabilia and history.

          • Zap – That interview date was:

            Folder 201.9.125: Interview #125 – Forrest Fenn, 2006-10-17

            Was there a board meeting then? Was there one in 2009, around the same time, and is that when Forrest hid the treasure, somewhere nearby, in Wyoming?

          • Hi Lisa: I still don’t think we even know the year that Forrest hid the treasure. In March of this year, he said he hid it *more* than ten years ago, and since he has also said on multiple occasions that he hid the treasure in “summer,” then that would necessarily mean 2009 (either last week of August, or first 3 weeks of September).

            However, in one of his depositions in the Erskine Arizona case, he writes more than once that he hid the treasure in 2010. Hard for both statements to be true unless he hid, retrieved, and re-hid the treasure, or he hid more than one treasure.

          • I wasn’t familiar with it until now, Lisa. But I’ll agree…
            Initialy, it looked familiar… vocally, it speaks volumes!

          • Zap – Thanks for those timelines!

            Forrest was definitely a member of the Board of Trustees of the Buffalo Bill Center of the West in 2009, as reflected in the 2009 Annual Report I just re-read. Oh, and I just found this on the Wiki page for that awesome organization:

            “Since 2008, the center has been part of the Smithsonian Affiliates program, the first museum complex in Wyoming to have this status.[3] As an Affiliate, the Center of the West has hosted Smithsonian artifacts. It has also recently loaned some of its own vast collections to a Smithsonian exhibition in Washington, D.C.”

            Ooooh! They can display Forrest’s treasure, on behalf of the Smithsonian! That’s killing two Meadowlarks with one Annie Oakley rifle! Let’s start the exhibit at the Smithsonian’s National Museum of American History, then move the whole thing over to Forrest’s favorite hangout and place to donate his collectables, in Summer of 2021 (June 20 – September 20?).

            What do you think, Finder? And you, Zap?

          • Hi Lisa: I think (if I was Emperor) I would recommend the reverse: offer the Buffalo Bill Center of the West the opportunity to buy it (or donate it to them, or loan it to them), and then let BBCW loan it out to the Smithsonian for a seasonal exhibit — if the latter is interested.

            The Smithsonian isn’t going to care about most of the items in the chest (gold coins and gold nuggets: yawn), but the more ancient artifacts (Egyptian fetishes, gold frogs, hammered gold mirrors, and possibly the bronze chest itself, if it’s truly older than 19th century) may be enough to attract their attention.

          • Zap – If I were King of the Forest…I might ask the Great and Powerful Oz for the courage to call a Curator I have in mind at the Smithsonian. Since that’s where Forrest wanted the treasure to be exhibited. But, meanwhile, I will just watch that particular museum I mentioned on Instagram. Find the Ruby Slippers!:

            https://www.instagram.com/amhistorymuseum/

            And, methinks the Emperor has no clothes! Run away!!!

      • Wow Zap, thanks! Great stories!!
        A wizard Forrest is and interesting the quote from Longfellow.

        I believe Forrest linked the imagination/ fantasy with his spot. That’s why it was so hard to figure out trying to use knowledge.

        Zap, Forrest said in the tribute page 66 years with grandma. Which grandma is he speaking of? Kiki or Peggy?? 66 is a big number in the chase. Flip over and becomes 99.

      • Zap – Thank you for sharing those links! In my opinion, the books in Forrest’s library were his greatest treasures. I would be honored to own just one of them.

      • Zap, another interesting thought.

        Ardie means Warm. I just watched an interview of Forrest and he said the main thing TTOTC had to be was it had to feel warm when you touched it.
        I looked up warm again and warm means Ardent or Ardor a form of Ardie. Ardent and warm means to Burn. That fire in the belly, burning love. Forrest says in Runblings and ramblings Enter Yellowstone that’s where my heart is. It’s in Yellowstone obviously but where?

        If you look up burn there are hints there like boil, hot, thermos, and the doublet of burn is bourn. Which means a small stream or brook.
        Interesting too the Burnt hole is firehole area.
        I still believe the spot is gibbon River area but that area around Madison junction is very interesting.

        His spot is warm. A place that is watched over by the nanny goat. I feel the finder have a hint to the area by saying at the spot had to pull hat over eyes from the sun. The area is Warm. Warming to heart, Ardent.
        Interesting also the second etymology of burn is spring or fountain.
        Ardie springing or leaping over .

        • Zap, another thing I just noticed. Another word for warm is fever. The art fever.

          Your effort is worth the cold- worthless. But your warmth is wear his spot lies worthwhile.

  46. I was studying “The Finders” article posted Sept 23rd. It is absurdly long. Turns out exactly 3200 words long. The square root of 3200 is 56.56.

    The exact number of letters is 17,394. If you happen to add *30* to that number you would be at 17,424. As many know, putting 30 at the end of a long message is a tradition dating back to early Morse Code. 30 meant “end of message”. And guess what the square root of 17,424 just happens to be? 132. The exact page number of the poem in TTOTC.

    Do you believe this long letter was penned by a millennial? The generation of BRB? This took hours to craft. Who has time for that? Or, better question, why bother? Some sort of hidden pattern mebbe?

    NBD

    • Are you sure you didn’t miscount it? You better count it again. LOL Why does everyone keep saying that millenials are not able to write something like this? Millenials are the most educated generation in the history of Earth. Just ask all of their student loans.

  47. Memories of the Present

    The days drag on and the years fly by
    And on baited breath we live and die.
    We fuss over now; and tomorrow too
    but as forepast, we made it through

    We know now what, we didn’t then
    Still foresight short on the greater plan
    We dream of times when;
    When when when when when

    How bout now.
    Perhaps today
    To make the change
    color in the gray

    Take what we’ve drawn
    And found out true
    Use our gifts
    To end the ruse

    The futures not
    a searchers gift
    Today’s the day
    To sail the skiff

    Press on Be bold
    Light up the room
    For tomorrow comes
    It will be here soon

    For-ward March
    Head-long again
    Be present yet
    His gift for men

  48. After seeing the video(s) taken from Forrest’s flight(s), I suspect that when the poem says
    “heavy loads and water high”, it may be referring to some feelings of guilt or regret.

  49. I thought this at one point too. He seemed to really like the napalm in that video.
    Do you remember when he said if you knew what the clues were referring to it would be like a road map to the treasure? Do you think the clues could be referring to street names? I found something kind of related to that in Laramie. There’s a road called Roger Canyon Road that leads to a Downey Street that leads to Grafton Street (not far if read backwards without the G) and it’s just south of Katie Brown Canyon. It matches the 2nd stanza pretty well. Could he have hidden it in a small local park. There’s a park called Optimist Park nearby that I kind of like.

  50. Hello Geoff Idaho. In response to Dizzy Dean and why would he drink beer on a cold day when the golf game was nearly cancelled due to it, I’m reminded of fans at a football game during a snowstorm drinking beer. Chilly weather doesn’t stop one from libation if they want one. Dizzy Dean was in the mood. 🙂

    • pdenver, I like that. 🙂 Kind of raises a person’s spirit!

      You also have to consider that some people are more tolerant to the cold, so maybe his hindquarters were more cold-blooded than most. Then again, maybe he had a pet in his pocket to help keep him warm.

      • I’ve read your response twice, and still left me giggling! 🙂

        When I read the scrapbook when it came out, I had assumed the weather was warm. Dizzy Dean wanted beer and Mr. Fenn got a Dr. Pepper. I was surprised what I learned from Geoff Idaho.

        • Jumping in here.

          I wondered why Forrest went to the trouble of revising OUAW. Maybe he had more to say and did not want to write a whole new book.

          So what are the differences or aberrations? What I found was mostly the single new Star on the cover and the Dizzy Dean story.

          The aberration in the Dizzy Dean story is not the beer, but the ladder he had to climb 10 feet up and then 10 feet down. There are ladders on Indulgence, and stairs and steps in many other stories.

          That’s what I see, or saw.

          • Hello nomadicMadman. I recall the original OUAW was having binding issues during development and I believe when the second one came out, he added the Dizzy Dean story. I believe he had originally wanted 40 stories, but wasn’t pleased with one of them and pulled it.

          • It’s a good thing Forrest didn’t go with the first one, it would have fallen short of perfection without the Dizzy Dean story and would’ve missed its historical debut alongside the Juniper Fire!

          • When I think “ladder”, I think of a small hint. Good luck to
            all continuing searchers.

          • Somehow I ended up buying a Dizzy and Paul Dean signed baseball during my search research. Anyone ever notice how Dizzy and Forrest both gave eyes or faces to their signatures? g

          • I d e a ( which, in my opinion, means hint)

            Anyway you’ll notice at the bottom of the poem the last two lines have the same first letter and the same last letter so now you can bring down two lines from each side starting with the a, down to each I, and you’ll have somewhat of a triangle, go over to the e, in the first line and go down both do the bottom D and the second line D and you’ll have an exact duplicate of the other side just opposite… now, if you draw a line from each bottom corner to each bottom corner of the lines that you just drew, it excludes the bottom line by itself making the entire poem 23 lines and One exclusive line at the bottom. does that make sense?

            Kind of resembles a ladder

          • Nice jdiggins, I see it. Try this one. Take the poem on paper with all poem lines starting even on the left side. Draw a line on the right side of poem down connecting with smooth curves the end of each line, letter or punctuation. Like a dot to dot connecting the end of each line. Now flip it upside down. I get the profile of an Indian face wearing a three tiered headdress. Three tiered headdress, like the one the elephants wore in curious George goes to the circus. g

        • pdenver,
          Thanks for your response (on this page); perhaps the details of this “aberration” will remain a mystery.
          Geoff
          “Have flashlight, will (still) travel”

        • pdenver, I’ve done the same. It’s difficult for many of us searchers to not show emotions. When there’s no place else to turn, sometimes those heartfelt feelings or tears are all we have left… especially for those individuals who knew Forrest personally. After all, he gave his inner-self to all of us and even more so to those who were close to him.

          Thanks for the video link. <3

  51. Has anyone noticed that the Empire spiral notebook in this Scrapbook is not the notebook with Mr. Fenn’s mission notes? Just look at the hole punches if you want confirmation.

    Does anyon think that the “title” is still out there somewhere to be found? Empire is a town in Colorado so might that be the theme along with the Vietnam War ending for this Chase to end?

    Must we sigh now that Mr. and Mrs. Fenn are gone? Talk about being
    shell-shocked!! A pall has come upon the Chase community and we must bear with it now, but the final shell has yet to be found in this shell game, or has it…? T-minus 6 minutes in counting to meet a lion in the wood.

    Most sincerely,
    A frequent windsurfier

    • I think that’s great news. Before going to bed, I went to Mr. Fenn’s website and read the stories posted there from TTOTC. I think I might curl up under the blanket with a cup of hot chocolate and read more stories from the book while Denver’s 5-10″ of snow falls today.

      Congratulations to Mr. Fenn for reaching a milestone with his well-written book. I think it would be great if we all picked up the book and read a chapter to help celebrate for Mr. Fenn.

    • It’s over, and we’re lingering around like we don’t want to leave.
      Forrest sure knew how to throw a party.
      I’ll never stop thinking of myself as a “Fenn Searcher.”
      I crawled out the window, and I’ll never stop chasing the music.

  52. Part of the beginning of my above post didnt make it…
    It should start by saying the four corners say aide idea, which means hint imo..

    • Hi Jdiggins,

      A ladder is a bunch of tied holes if you think about it.

      So how about this?

      I give you title to the gold, becomes I give you tied hole to the gold.

      But I really think it means – I give you “tight hole” to the gold.
      As in a hole sealed tight for decades if you listen good.

      • Themed, “Tails From The Cryptic”. Or maybe, “Outnumbered By The Crowd”. Maybe even, “As The Last Knots Of Intellect Untwine”.

      • I was working with tidal for a long time. Then quickly down would be moving either left or right down an ancient shoreline. When you walk a shoreline you walk down it. I also was going off of cease – seas, and warm waters salt, and secret wear for a worn shoreline and heavy load sand for a beach. Bring a sand witch. g

    • ‘Idea’ makes sense to me Jdiggins.

      After all, how many times did he ask us “what do you THINK”? But perhaps he was actually hinting ‘idea-aide’, a brain aide if you will. FOOD for thought?

      Take care……pinatubocharlie

  53. I know this is long but bear with me!

    Pirate, Rogue!

    For those still wanting to know the exact spot like me I have found out more valuable information.

    I have studied the finders story believing there are clues or hints in there. Specifically paying attention to his explanation of where Forrest wanted to die. That is what the Finder told us he figured out to find the location. So if he could do it, I know I can. So I have been focusing on interviews and quotes from Forrest about where he WISHED to die.

    Wish is the important word. Wish means to long for, desire a place held dear, wishing well, magic or supernatural power and most importantly A Water Meadow- a low lying area of grassland that is subject to seasonal flooding.

    The Finder says in his story he figured out where Forrest Wished to die.
    So I started my effort to find where Forrest wished for things, I came across some but the most important was in Mysterious Writings of 2014. Forrest replied to a question about who he wished he could be. The first talked about Hitler and dieing and suicide like Forrest wanted or wished to do, The second was JFK and making a better choice which I am not sure why he said that out of his three wishes. The third wish was to have Pirates in his ancestry. I said to myself- Pirate??

    So I looked into Pirate and yes it aligns with Forrest and the chase.

    First a Pirate is someone plunders and Spoils in non territorial waterS. Its a boundary of waters. So where warm waters halt or as Forrest has told us Warm means comfortable. A pirate doesnt live or work in friendly or comfortable waters, only unfriendly waters. Forrest always told us you need to know the edges.
    He points out in the squirt where boundry street was. Thats was the boundry or territory where terriotorial waters started or ended. Where friendly waters halt.
    Forrest always said he loved riding the rivers with Mike K. Like riding the open seas he viewed riding the rivers searching for treasures. He states it in an interview. He loved searching the rivers for treasures like arrowheads and such. He was a pirate in the wilds of yellowstone where there is no individual ownership. That land is Park land for all of us to ride and be free along the rivers. When you enter Pirated waters they are no place for the meek. Google Territorial waters. It talks like the poem with inland waters, water high and low waters.
    If you look at the whole chase its to find a treasure chest. He also said he wanted to name TFTW, chasing a vagabond. A vagabond is a Rogue or Pirate. Forrest said the spot is isolated which means alone or Rogue/Pirate.

    Forrest lived his life like a Pirate searching for lost treasures. One thing the finder stated was he had to stick to the evidence and not be swayed by confirmation bias.

    A pirate doesn’t go on a treasure hunt. He has a map to his loot. That is how we must look at the poem. It takes you back to his loot. Loot by the way means Ladle or dipper. There is your constellation.

    If we find where Forrest Wished to die we find the Pirates spot.

    • I suggest you go back to the poem. Finding a small, specific place where Forrest wished to die is too difficult. And if he was quite ill, he would be too weak
      to do a challenging hike anyway, to an isolated “spot”. All in my opinion.

      • Tall , I agree with the poem as well. I am trying to tie or connect the two. Poem comes first in my mind.

        Territorial waters can be where warm waters halt.

    • (paraphrasing)
      -The path will not be direct for those who have no certainty of the location beforehand.-

      Many, if not all, were consumed about the locate WWsH alone, out of the many. But we needed the location first and foremost to even locate the first clue.

      The questions; we were told;
      many, several, more than several found the correct first clues… but… They didn’t seem to know they did. How does that happen?
      A good guess on the first clue or a happy mistake on the location of where the clues are at? What didn’t they understand about the location itself?
      An important possibly to winning the prize?

      Whatever the answers might be… the location of the clues must be explained from the book. Not told of, but explained of its need, desire, and held in high regards.

      I personally lean towards a plot of land of petrified wood. An area not unlike a graveyard with petrified stumps / headstones.

      • I like your thoughts seeker. You are correct I believe and in your last paragraph you mentioned the place. Forrest said as he slipped in an interview and said his spot in the trees.
        The last drawing you see in TTOTC shows cut down trees like headstones. I will offer you another idea. To cut or mow down is a meaning of meadow.

    • I am questioning the whole purpose of the finders letter. The letter is very long – yet says so little about the chest. How can that be? It makes no sense to me the finder wouldn’t share their elation. The poem is certainly complex – heck, 10 years into the chase no one had solved it. How excited they must have been to find the treasure. They could have (and I assert would) have shared the LOCATION even if remained anonymous.

      This lack of joy makes me suspicious they found anything at all.

      I analyzed the article. It is absurdly long. exactly 3200 words long. That takes some effort – to write such a long letter but say almost nothing. The exact number of letters is 17,394. If you happen to add *30* to that number you would be at 17,424. As many know, putting 30 at the end of a long message is a tradition dating back to early Morse Code. 30 meant “end of message”. The end. It was common for journalists to, on their last day, put ”30” at the end of their last writing. Essentially saying “no more.”But the square root of 17,424 is THE MESSAGE. The square root just happens to be 132. The exact page the poem is on in TTOTC. That precision takes lot of effort Let me ask this: If you found a chest of gold 2 weeks ago, would you sit down and spend hours writing a 3200 word letter that has a square root of 132?

      9r would you be stacking your gold and planning trips to Bali?

      This letter seems almost as if the finder doesn’t care about money at all. Which begs the question of why they would spend 25 full days looking for gold.

      I call BS.

      FP

      • To clarify, the square root of the letters (17, 424] is 132.

        My point is this letter seems like it was written by someone with lots of time and no concerns about money. A rich older person, perhaps?

        • Interesting take . I am not a millennial but not far off. I agree with his thinking. He has student loans, as do I. He has a young family, as do I. I always said if I found it I would sell to museum where it belongs and pay off loans. Gets me a better head start on future. I would also want to be anonymous. Most celebrities or lottery winners have no peace at all. I like to go to dinner and nobody know who I am, do my own thing.
          I would write a book and tell the answer and make a royalty the rest of my life from it and be a ghost writer to the book. That all would give the finder no fights in court, animosity and time to enjoy your family and friends with an ease of mind and peace.
          As I see it the finder is doing exactly as I would- smart individual in my mind.

        • Hi Pmt: the trouble with selling to a museum is that they don’t have deep pockets, and you would only get a fraction of what you would from a private sale.

          As for writing a book and expecting royalties from it for life, that’s not a workable plan since there is effectively no demand. Sure, hardcore searchers want to know the solution, but within days of publishing, the answers would be out on the internet, and there go your book sales.

          • Zap – Which is why I vote for no book. Just a feature film with Douglas Preston’s updated script. And no leaks on the set, while filming. Like Jerry Bruckheimer is probably doing with “National Treasure 3” for Disney. The Smithsonian’s exhibit in the National Museum of American History would dovetail on the success of “The Thrill of the Chase” movie. People would want to know all about The Chase and Forrest Fenn. They could learn even more about his legacy, when they see the Smithsonian exhibit at the Buffalo Bill Center of the West, in the Summer following. Looks like filming wouldn’t start until Summer of 2021, though, due to the Pandemic. Oh, and Jerry Bruckheimer has to direct the next “Pirates of the Carribean” movie, beforehand.

          • Zap, Lisa- I doubt there will be much interest in a “feature film” OR a book several years from now. Once the solution is leaked and verified, most folks’ curiosity will be satisfied. I have a pretty nice collection of autographed books by Forrest and I doubt they are worth much more than their original price to anyone but me. Sadly, the end of the Chase has been anticlimactic at best.

          • True in all points Zap, it seems like that is the risk the Finder is willing to take.

            Zap, you frequent THOR. I don’t post there just read at times. Mr Hand did an post stating he thought Fenn was a pirate. I noticed that when I googled Forrest and pirate. Also was a scrapbook that someone did and they found a blaze on an aspen that said 6 or 9-11-11 the JB then FF. Old scrapbook. Maybe that was the fake blaze. I couldn’t figure out where the location was the searcher was referring too?

          • Hi pmt: well, it’s not clear to me that the finder (assuming he was an actual searcher, or even an actual person, which I’ve come to seriously doubt) has any plans to write a book. There is no evidence in the medium article that he solved a single poem clue, so perhaps it’s not surprising that he has no plans to ever reveal the solution.

            Russ (someone who really KNEW Forrest) has recently posted an insightful statement-by-statement commentary about that medium article on THOR. I encourage searchers to read it and then reassess their confidence that there was an actual finder. Here’s the link to part 1 — it was long enough that Russ had to start a part 2:

            https://www.hintofriches.com/forum/the-hint-of-riches/217932-my-seventeen-cents-on-the-medium-com-article-part-one

          • Zaphod. I analyzed the “Remembrance” piece thoroughly and I think it has clues but is just as vague as the ending and the poem for a reason. My search partners and I finally gave up on our area for good. It was a hard reality to accept but made the most sense. After all this, I think the treasure was actually found last year before all the scrapbooks were released and since then he was trying to lead people away from his special place. It is probably a super special fishing hole that has some delicate features- even precious jewels and in the least likely state, perhaps Colorado or the most obvious NM.

            If it was a fishing hole even the lightest traffic would really damage the river bottom or turn it into an angler destination. Over the years I think he subtly led people toward the area and once discovered by a party he led searchers away from it and all this stuff from the last year has been him protecting the place and the person with the chest. I think he is a lot smarter than most and the poem applies to so many places. He was an advocate for adventure and made a lot of people feel special even if some of us weren’t. I think he wrapped it up for many reasons but most importantly someone found it last year and that person didn’t want the publicity.

            Giving a definitive ending would only create more problems for him and his family and I don’t think he ever intended it to become a phenomenon he needed to manage. He and the finder leave the door open for individuals if they want to keep the search and the adventure alive even if the gold is taken away. In a world where we can get information instantly his message is no clear answers and more mystery- it’s own message.

            I’m going back to focusing on the original thing that interested me in ttotc: trout fishing.

    • Pmt – Cheers to the ‘Big Dipper’!
      What happened to f’s end game? I’ve got to believe he had one and it fell apart. Any ideas?

      • BRC, yeah thats an interesting question. For a man that spent years making sure everything was just right it felt like his plan fell apart at the end.

        My opinion is he either got some bad advice or he was overly optimistic that he was correct in thinking Yellowstone land is for the people.
        No quotes readily available but I read somewhere that he thought the park or government lands where for the people, like our lands. And he said he thought of everything. But as the years went by and searchers where bringing up interesting scenerios. Also the lawsuits that he was encountering as well.
        I believe he learned that if he hid it in Yellowstone a person can’t just pick it up and claim its theirs. There are many government regulations that come into play that I believe he was unaware of. Therefore he needed to walk away and let the Finder deal with the consequences of future legal decisions of where it was found.

      • Glad you noticed the Big Dipper comment BRC. Did you also notice the Big Dipper on cover of OUAW? Its the 4 brightest stars. Its upside down
        without the handle.
        Growing up my Dad would always say when its upside down its all rained out.
        Ursa Major, the bear or plough!

        • Hello pmt,

          The big dipper points to the north star. I have occasionally used the north star as my blaze. You need to be standing in the right spot to use the north star…from there, how far do you walk? Not to far.

          • Hi Nomadic, yes the dipper does point to the north star. Interesting thought. With Forrests knowledge about native americans I wonder how they viewed the big dipper and north star?

  54. I accept the ending but don’t like it. I would have enjoyed to hear Forrest story.
    What he wanted to say. I guess it got to complicated at the end.
    I keep pushing it away but still look for that story to be told.
    Maybe it is just a matter of time but the spider web says differently.
    I guess the ending is what it is and they were ten good years for Forrest.
    I had my ideas too. Scrap book 107. the hap-hazzardly placed telephone
    poles. the fifth one from the corner. I wonder why Delacy
    creek trail. where some indian bones found on dry creek long ago.
    Lots of guesses. I do think the two blazes are Forrest.
    There were 4 Jars and 4 Bells. A mini treasure Jar that isn’t there no more.
    I know that is a far fetched thought.
    Personally to myself Forrest can have the treasure back for free. But whats
    the story. Well thats not in my hands. Seems to me they left it near there
    last year for what ever reason. I guess decisions had to be made.
    Forrest story that was given is honest. I guess he decided to protect
    the finder. I think I understand that one.
    As always if you didn’t have the chest in your hands when it ended.
    Then someone else found it. Who knows what is comning we may get
    something as soon as it is sold. The TTOTC was a great thing. It was an epic
    thing from Forrest. It still stands as such. I put my books on the shelf and
    plan to keep them. Do the answers really matter. No. but the five trees for
    Santa Fe National Forrest better grow real big.
    Thanks to Fenn Family as always.
    Mark..

      • Hi pdenver,
        Thx for the quick find.
        The Porcelain Basin on 89 a few miles south of Mammoth Hot Springs reminds me of many of Forrest’ hints.

        I was thinking of that Caper with Frosty.
        At the building for Porcelain Basin is a very good looking rustic tourist center.

        As you walk down the path to the geothermal area there a good sign pointing left and right. To the right it shows the way
        to the Porcelain Basin, This is a unique , large and very white mineral deposit , irridescent? With imagination it looks like a sheet of ice, ice could be called frosty.

        To the left is the Back Basin. which also has some of this frosty deposit running out in that direction too.

        Didn’t Forrest write something about Frosty chasing him out BACK>

        When I imagine the very cool tourist building as the restaurant and the path up the to the LEFT walkway as Forrest’s route, I can compress the entire Caper episode as an analog for this spot.

        And just for a bit of confirmation bias the pathway from the building
        to the sign brings you to a very obvious Fork.
        And the thermal features are steadily steaming away just like the Basin where Forrest was washing those stinking brown pots.

        The stinking brown mud pots are not far away.

        Let me know if any of this feels right to you.

        Warm regards

        • Hello 4rest4fend. It’s very possible. One might think of a bathtub as where warm water halts and a bathtub is a “Porcelain Basin”.

          • Exactly what I thought too.

            Olga Ashes and
            Olga’s Bathtub

            …, a little stretch but, that mineral deposit incorporates
            ….. sinters from the geysers, Sinters reminds me of ASHES

            The SB with a full on tour of F’s bathroom

          • In the same scrapbook, if I recall correctly, he spoke about no one entering his bathroom other than to get his laundry. Isn’t there a Queen’s Laundry in the general area?

          • Queen’s Laundry also reminds me of the story Mr. Fenn told of Skippy’s invention with the washer.

          • pdenver,

            Using a teeny tiny bit of imagination and looking very carefully at the poem, a specific kind of bathtub can be found.

          • A bathtub, did’nt f have a picture of a bathtub in one of sb’s? I think it was his friend Suzane Summers’ tuhe
            but I thought it might be a reference to Bath Tub Row
            in Los Alamos N.M.

          • Hello Pinatubocharlie. I’ve followed your thoughts of words within the poem and wondered if you found how the type of tub fits on the map in Wyoming. I haven’t looked at the poem yet to find the type, but thoughts of “claw” comes to mind first. Mr. Fenn had used his special bathing spot as his “tub” if one looks at it in this way.

          • Hello Wayne Alen. Suzanne’s bathtub is a nice story told by Mr. Fenn. Since we’ve been told the treasure was found in Wyoming, have you found an area where bathtub, tub, and/or wash could be associated with the poem and story?

  55. IDK about the Queen’s Laundry, sorry.

    But I was trying to pin down what in the “Canyon Down” meant.

    I first tried using south as the meaning for down, but abandoned that idea.

    Right now using down as a change in elevation, particularly with

    Obsidian Creek Canyon.

    • Interesting thought, 4rest4fend. I had considered WWWH and take it in the canyon down as Yellowstone Lake followed by Yellowstone River which goes down/into the canyon. I can’t help but think that the old Fishing Bridge Campground wouldn’t be sentimental to Mr. Fenn. My husband’s family camped there when he was in his teens and has great memories there. Nearly every year we try to find a rock that he and his siblings use to play on there, as well as, his mother reading a book. The area is getting more dense with new pine growth and it’s hard to find it. While searching, we came upon an old firepit and wondered if Mr. Fenn’s family had ever camped it that specific spot. I took a picture of it in case I couldn’t find it again. One could see the old road loops which are chewed up now. Can’t help but think what it was like when everything was alive and thriving with campers.

      • We that have wonderful memories of outdoor adventures in our childhood are so fortunate. When I was young if you wanted to go camping you joined the Boy Scouts.
        Some troops were geared primarily to the high achievers, not ours. All we ever wanted to do was go camping. Forrest would have loved our troop.
        And getting there was a thrill. We lived in suburbia though it still had large tracts of land and parks that were mostly undeveloped.
        But come the summer, we’d clear out and caravan so far north that the mighty River turned into a creek you could step across.
        From there it was winding roads, uphills, and then the wild smells I knew only out there.

        With a little help fires burned all night.

        We slept on wood decks covered with canvas tents…

        Man, I was one lucky son-of-a-gun!

        • Gosh, it sounds like great memories, 4rest4fend. I think Mr. Fenn would have enjoyed your story. His mention of getting the kids out and grabbing a bedroll would register to the things you did when you were young. Thank you for sharing your memory. I really enjoyed it.

        • 4, I really like the Norris area as the end area. Porcelain basin may be the spot, not just wwh. Porcelain word meaning is in line with the hints and clues I have been uncovering trying to find Where Forrest wanted to die.

          • pmt
            Sorry I took so long to reply, but I just wanted to share more of the poem that I found.

            Do you recall the s.b. picture of f siting in the grass with the two horses? Do you also remember the title of his book The beat of the drum and the whoop of the dance?
            Well this is what I believe is the rest of the poem is all about.
            The answer(s) I already know
            alone in the sward(s) wakey
            sward is a pasture, wakey is a death watch
            I’ve done it tired now and now I’m weak
            I’ve deride to tweak now I’m in
            tweak: to check out
            so hear me all and listen good
            God hears me and sol elations
            sol means bright: elations: whoopee, joy
            your effort will be worth the cold
            rub of the cold will throw feretory
            rub is an obstruction such as snow in the winter it
            also means scratch,touch,squash
            if you are brave and in the wood
            if you are in the rave wood band
            cottonwood ring
            I give you title to the gold
            give little I.O.U. to thy god.
            I really don’t believe it ever left N.M.
            Here’s why.
            It was agreed to reveal the place the chest was found.
            There are many meanings to reveal the one that struck me was betray, meaning mislead,as to hose someone.
            Then the letter about the squirt using a hose to wet the road in front of his cabin. also there’s no way he could have left his house gone Wyoming and come back in one afternoon. Remember he also said it’s 66,000 links
            north of Santa Fe, well isn’t a thesaurus about words being linked, and remember he chose his words carefully
            where would he get his words to choose from?
            f had great loves: Peggy: family: fishing: collecting: and words the man was a genius no doubt about.

    • 4rest4fend,

      Canyon —> CA NY on —> coast, oceans, boundary, edge, border, map, & flag.

      Down —> direction (view or travel path), feathers, sad, mood, consume, shoot, volume, American football, write, smell, sailing, rolling hills.

      I see some interesting combinations.

      Enjoy

  56. Some searchers searched with their boots
    made of sinew within their roots
    Some at home didn’t give a hoot
    only wanting a pile of loot

    Different types of searchers are we
    we all know nothing in life is free
    Pretty sure Forrest had that belief
    It’s led many to agonizing grief

    He left it to do what you please
    greed often becomes a disease
    He gave a chance a moment to cease
    no guarantees of finding it with ease

    The mystery remains at the end
    A thought I may simply lend
    To others searchers as 4rest4fend
    thanks for your thoughts my friend

    Going into nature was his only rule
    using imagination no need for tools
    No special knowledge to figure it out
    yet so many left with anxiety and doubt

    Some relax waiting during times of peace
    hoping for answers the chase to cease
    Like life’s answers what might they be
    ending in question of one’s belief.

  57. and take in the canyon down

    none want yon kid can( casket,compass, eighty six, ax, boot, eject, jail, jar,vault, grave, bark,) adit ( entrance).

    Entrance to Gujae Pines cemetery. It’s spanish meaning kid. I don’t know of anybody who wants to go there.

  58. Hi pd,

    Regarding your Wyoming tub question, just as many others did, I put a lot of thought and research into Yellowstone, but no BOTG. My last trip back there was with our young family in the early 90’s after the devastating fires of 1988. The kids were very impressed with all the scenery and grandeur of the geysers, hot springs, etc and we camped at the Madison Campground.

    I spent a lot of time trying to come up with a Queen’s Laundry solve because of the tub connection and his mom doing laundry outside the house. However, I finally decided to drop it because I hiked out there during that camping trip one day just to see it in person and it was a real slog. I ruined a new pair of hiking boots because eventually the trail dissolved into nothingness and then became marshy maybe 300 yards away. But I persisted and finally made it there, right about time the sun was directly overhead and the pool that wonderfully deep azure blue we all know and love.

    There is no way Forrest would have gone thru what I did to hide it there and so I moved on to other areas within the park, finally discovering this with the thought it’s a great blaze.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ctkwg0go10cb7rl/Photo%20Nov%2021%2C%205%2024%2010%20PM.jpg?dl=0

    But then I again decided it was just to dangerous a place and Forrest would never put searchers into jeopardy that way. And after a good 6-8 months I gave up on Yellowstone and haven’t steered my armchair in that direction since.

    What I post nowadays I do in the hope that maybe something I say will trigger something in a searcher like you that you might say to yourself, why didn’t I think of that?

    In that regards, where you find tub, claw, & 12″, you might find something with a claw if you study far.

    Take care………..pinatubocharlie

  59. Because of him.

    On Nov 22, 2017 I entered a sanctuary in search for a box of gold. It took about 20 minutes for me to be sure it was not there. As I said thinking to myself, my eyes on a dove in the window, at exactly 10:24 AM, I felt a calm like no other. I began where I stopped many years ago.

    This story continues for about three more years to present and will have to be completed at a later date.

    Less than a few weeks ago, torn with a few unanswered questions, I said to myself KEC-aka-IDK go back to the poem. Sure enough as I did what I did from the beginning, and after about 10 minutes I saw it. I already knew the answer. “ confession” for lack of another word. It was crystal clear, undeniable proof. I said what I said before when it was done. My God why didn’t I think of that.

    So be it that I am called upon, I will speak the truth to all.
    For now it is written that I know him the one the one to seek the one I found.
    And yes if you guessed it I am speaking of God the Son and the Holy Spirit.
    He said you will know. And you will.

    I have my treasure and I hope you find yours.
    I say that with Sincerity

    I leave you with this:
    ( Mr. Forrest Fenn Lives)
    He just changed locations.

    (So here we are) and you know not the rest of the story.
    It’s not over.
    I hope Dal at this point in time finds no reason to let this post.
    GH

    • Oh how thymes have changed here.
      I remember when the discussion of anything religious in nature was taboo.
      I suppose tho if the road points us in that direction, perhaps we should at least check it out. Gonna follow your lead, Grasshopper.
      www

      • With all do respect to Dal, I am not ingaging in any religious discussions here on this sight.
        My comments are part of my story and my findings. I have shared them for my own personal reasons.

        At this point in chase history maybe all avenues of thought could be looked at.

        For me it will just continue.

        Thank you Dal for your consideration.
        GH

  60. If you love F-100s and airshows, I suspect you’ll enjoy reading this article I sent Forrest a few years ago my brother shared with me. It’s a little long though. It’s written by General Merril A. (Tony) McPeak, Misty 94 and the 9th Misty Commanding Officer during Forrest’s tour in SE Asia. Unfortunately, there are two F-100 Thunderbird file photos that didn’t post. Hope you guys and gals enjoy.

    “Del Rio could have been the Hollywood movie set of a West Texas border town.

    It’s windy, and the weather tends toward seasonal extremes. A large U.S. Air Force Base 6 miles east of town is named after Jack T. Laughlin, a B-17 pilot and Del Rio native killed over Java within a few weeks of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.

    Our Thunderbirds Team flies into Laughlin on Oct. 20, 1967, for an air show the next day, honoring 60 or so lieutenants graduating from pilot training. We go through the standard pre-show routine. Lead and 5 do their show-line survey, while the rest of us make the rounds of hospital and school visits and give interviews. Next day, proud parents watch as new pilots pin on wings.

    At noon, we brief at Base Ops. As usual, an ‘ inspection team ‘ comprising base and local dignitaries joins us for a photo session before we step to the jets.

    The film Bandolero ! is in production near the base, and its stars, Jimmy Stewart and Raquel Welch, show up in the inspection team. Jimmy Stewart is a USAF Reserve brigadier general, a founder of the Air Force Association and a big hero to all of us. And Raquel Welch is . . . well, she’s Raquel Welch.

    We’re wearing white show suits, my least-favorite outfit. Lead can choose from among gray, blue, black or white, but today, we look like ‘ ice cream selling ‘ Good Humor men.

    Plus, even with the air conditioning set to nearly blowing snow balls I’ll be working the solo demonstration so hard, sweat soaks my collar. This woul not matter much, except we do a lot of taxiing in-trail.

    With only 6 feet. between the end of my pitot boom and No. 5’s afterburner, I take a huge load of engine exhaust into the cockpit. Soot clings to the dampness, leaving a noticeable ‘ ring around the collar ‘ when wearing white.

    At Del Rio, I follow my usual routine and roll the collar under once we have taxied away from the crowd. After the show, I’ll roll it back out again, the chimney-black still there, but now underneath, out of ‘ show watcher sight.’

    We taxi short of the runway for a quick pre-takeoff inspection by a couple of our maintenance troops. As No. 6, I’m flying F-100D serial number 55-3520.

    We take the runway, the four-aircraft Diamond in fingertip and Bobby Beckel and I in Element . . 500 ft. back. The Diamond releases brakes at precisely 1430.

    Bobby and I run up engines, my stomach tightening against the surge of isolation and exhilaration that comes before every air show takeoff. By this time in the season, the Team is really ‘ clicking along.’ We have a lot of shows under our belt and know what we are doing.

    Twenty-one minutes into the event, it’s going well–a nice cadence and rhythm. We approach the climax . . the Thunderbirds. signature ‘ Bomb Burst.’

    My job is to put smoke “pigtails” through the separating formation, doing ‘ unloaded ‘ maximum aileron rate rolls in perfect vertical. Even only a couple vertical rolls require establishing a perfect up-line. But more than a few also requires starting them with a ton of airspeed.

    As the Diamond pirouettes into the entry for the Bomb Burst entry . . I grab for altitude . . but seconds later at just the right moment, dive down after them . . hidden from the crowd . . behind their masking smoke.

    The Super Sabre’s airspeed builds up fast. The Thunderbirds switched to the F-100 in 1956, making us the world’s first supersonic flying team. So I have to be mindful of a hard-and-fast absolute rule : DO NOT go supersonic during the airshow.

    No booming the crowd.

    So, I need to stay sub-sonic.

    On the other hand . . just barely subsonic.

    Hmmmmm. Let’s say . . Mach 0.99.

    The biggest mistake I can make is to be early. The Diamond is about to break in all four directions. And if I get there too soon, I don’t have an exit strategy. If I’m too late it looks ugly.

    Today, my timing looks good, so I light the ‘ burner . . start pulling back into a perfect vertical climb . . not looking but guessing it was very close to a thoroughly practiced 6.5 G pull up.

    If I get it right, I’ll hit the apex of the Bomb Burst 5 seconds . Then immediately after the Diamond separates . . snap the throttle out of ‘ burner ‘ to get the smoke going . . airplane perfectly vertical . . going very fast.

    As the Diamond pilots track away from one another to the four points of the compass . . I’ll put on those lazy, lovely vertical pigtails Then cut off the smoke while figuring out how best to make a good-looking slow-speed recovery to normal flight.

    But at Del Rio . . it doesn’t turn out right.

    When I started that aggressive pull into the vertical . . the Super Sabre . . just . . . b-l-e-w d-a-m-n-e-d u-p !

    Now, F-100 pilots are accustomed to loud noises . . because its afterburner can ‘ bang ‘ pretty hard as the afterburner’s raw fuel ignites. It’s also fairly common for its engine compressor to stall . . to force a violent cough of rejected air from its intake.

    Flame belches out the oval nose–which will definitely wake you up at night–and the shock can kick your feet off the rudder pedals.

    Any F-100 pilot who hears a loud ” BANG ! ” automatically thinks : ‘compressor stall ‘ So he unloads centrifugal force . . allowing ram air to travel in the right direction.

    SO, INSTINCTIVELY . . the explosion caused me to relax back stick-pressure . . to unload G’s from the airplane. And now, my brain has zoomed fully into one of those fast-forward mental exercises where entire seasons compress into seconds . . tree leaves change color . . as you’re looking.

    I ease the stick forward seemingly lethargic way . . even having time to consider :

    ” THIS IS NOT A COMPRESSOR STALL ! ”

    In retrospect, the airplane had already unloaded itself, making my remedy superfluous,

    But there was instantly . . significant pilot lore at work here.

    No matter what else happens . . fly the airplane. Forget all about lift and drag and thrust and gravity. Just fly the damn airplane . . until the last piece stops moving. Good old 55-3520 has quit flying. But I have not quit flying !

    Now there’s FIRE !

    Not just a little smoke. Flames fill the cockpit. I have to eject. I grab the seat handles and tug up, firing the canopy and exposing ejection triggers on each side of the handles. I yanked both triggers and immediately feel the seat catapult into the slip stream.

    Seat-separation is automatic . . too fast to track . . the seat disappearing as I curl into a semi-fetal posture to absorb the parachute’s opening shock. Jump school helps here . . and I kind of congratulate myself on perfect body position.

    Then the chute snaps open–much too quickly–jolting me back to real time and short-circuiting transition from stark terror . . to giddy elation, the evil Siamese twins of parachute jumping.

    My helmet is gone. And I look up to see a couple of chute panels are torn, several shroud lines severed. And there’s one large rip in the canopy’s crown.

    I’ll be coming down a bit quicker.

    Going to land in the infield, near show-center. Have to figure out the wind, then try to quickly collapse the chute reducing the threat of being dragged along the crude desert .

    I slammed into the dirt . . instantly getting dragged . . I focused on collapsing that damn chute !

    Finally, I stand up, thinking I’m in one piece. And here comes a blue van with some of our mechanics in it. While simultaneously the huge ramifications of what’s happened so quickly . . begins sinking in.

    In 14 years and 1,000-plus air shows, the Team has been cunning enough to do all our metal-bending during our training sessions . . and out of sight.

    This is our first accident in front of a crowd. And the ‘ honor ‘ is mine.

    I gather my gear and climb into the van. Someone suggested immediately taking me to the base hospital. But my brain’s still functioning and I told him :’ No.’ Let’s tell the ground crew I’m OK first. ” So we stop, I get out of the van, shake hands, toss the crew chiefs a false smile and highly insincere ‘ thumbs-up.’

    Jimmy Stewart is still there and comes over to say nice things. Raquel hasn’t stayed for the show, so no air-kiss. Our narrator, Mike Miller, stops and jokingly tells me . . maybe we should probably leave ‘ the THING . . you just performed . . out of the next Thunderbird airshow . . ‘ though it was interesting to watch.

    That’s when I found out I’d ‘ jerked the wings off ‘ a Super Sabre.

    On most modern fighters, the wings are well behind the pilot. You can see them in the rear view mirror or if you look back, but otherwise they’re not in your field of view. Of course, I had been watching the Diamond, ahead and well above me. Therefore I hadn’t seen my swept wings ‘ pop ‘ off.

    All I knew was the airplane exploded.

    The F-100 has a large fuel tank in the fuselage. It’s on top of the wing ‘s center section . . forward of the engine. When both wings popped off the airplane . . its raw fuel was inhaled directly into its full-throttled engine.

    Everything exploded around me . . into . . a ‘ fire ball.’

    The shock wave from the blast propagated up the air intake . . and ‘ b-l-e-w o-f-f ‘ the first 6 feet of F-100’s nose. The tail of the jet also was badly damaged, setting free the drag chute.

    And as the F-100’s drag chute came fluttering down . . some in the crowd believed my personal parachute had failed.

    After exploding, briefly pumped raw flames through the cockpit-pressurization system entering the cockpit at the pilot’s shoe level . . and sent flames scorching the back of his head. My flying boots . . shiny for an ROTC guy . . charred beyond fixing. And I my neck . . where I’d rolled my collar underneath . . had been roasted bright red.

    I was barely subsonic . . when the wings failed. But with the nose blown off, the F-100 became a fairly blunt object and would have slowed quickly.

    On the other hand, I remained with the aircraft just nano-seconds after the explosion . . hadn’t time to decelerate much. So . . when I came out of the jet, wind blast grabbed my helmet, rotated it 90 degrees and ripped it off my head.

    It was found on the ground with the visor down, oxygen mask hooked up and chin strap still fastened. As the helmet rotated, the sturdy neck strap rasped my raw fuel burned neck . . caused the fuel burned neck to bleed more than a bit.

    During airshows, the Team always has their ‘ zero-delay ‘ parachute lanyards hooked up to the airplane . . giving us the quickest possible chute deployment . . explaining why my chute opened so fast . . too fast, as it turned out.

    Because it was connected to my parachute . . the ejection seat tore through a few nylon fabric panels.

    The immediate opening at very high speed was certainly harsher than normal. And as my torso ‘ horse whipped around ‘ aligning with the chute’s risers, the tough straps did further damage to the back of my neck . . the body part apparently singled out for retribution.

    Walking into the base hospital, I’m startled by my image in a full-length mirror. Above, a sign says : ” Check Your Military Appearance.”

    Mine looks like I’ve crawled into a burlap bag with a mountain lion. The white show suit is a goner, the cockpit fire having given it a base-coat of charcoal gray accented by blood . . with a dressing of dirt, grass and sagebrush stain.

    Being dragged along the ground accounted for all the camouflage. But I hadn’t realized my neck was bleeding so much. I look like the main course in a throat slasher movie — ‘ The Solo Pilot From Hell.’

    They keep me in the hospital overnight. The Team visits, and Mike Miller smuggles in a dry martini in a half-pint milk carton.

    Everybody’s leaving for Nellis AFB the next morning. So I tell the hospital people I’m leaving, too, and ask our Slotman, Jack Dickey, to pack my stuff at the motel. The 1967 show season is over.

    After I ‘ punched out’ my broken aircraft remained on a ballistic trajectory . . scattering parts along the extended flight path into the Texas desert.

    Most of the engine and the main fuselage section impacted about 2 miles down range from my initial pull-up spot. All the bits and pieces landed on goverment soil, and there was no injury or property damage.

    My aircraft was wiped out. And I signed a hand-receipt for $ 696,989.

    But . . if there is a good kind of accident, this was it. Nobody was hurt, and all the scrap metal was collected for post-game analysis.

    The Super Sabre’s wings mate into a reinforced box at the center of the fuselage . . and it’s usually the strongest part of the airplane. When my aircraft’s wing center box was inspected, it was found to have failed. North American Rockwell, the manufacturer, tested the box on a bend-and-stretch machine.

    And it broke during the test at an equivalent load of 6.5 G Same as the aerobatic flight I was in when both Super Sabre’s wings whipped off . . not quite above the wide open-mouths of the airshow crowd.

    It shouldn’t have happened, since the F-100’s maximum load limit is 7.33 G. But my F-100’s wing center box had fractured along a fatigue crack. And there were about (30 ) thirty more fatigue cracks in the vicinity.

    Among other past accidents . . various F-100 losses in Vietnam looked suspiciously similar.

    The recovery from a dive-bomb pass is a lot like my high-speed, high-G pull-up into the Bomb Burst. In the Vietnam accidents, the pieces had not been recovered, and the aircraft were written off as combat losses.

    Later, specialists found considerable fatigue damage in the wing center boxes of our other Thunderbird aircraft. USAF immediately put a 4 G limit on the F-100 and initiated a program to run all the aircraft through depot modification to beef up the wing center box.

    So my hairy accident almost certainly served to save other pilots lives after revealing a serious structural weakness in the Super Sabre.

    Merrill A. [ Tony ] McPeak

    Ed. Tom Weeks : USAF General Merrill A. McPeak also flew F-100, F-104, F-4, F-111, F-15 and F-16 fighters, participated in nearly 200 airshows as the Thunderbird’s solo pilot . . ‘ Tony ‘ flew 269 combat missions in Vietnam as an attack pilot and as a FAC high-speed forward air controller. He commanded the Misty FACs, 20th Fighter Wing, Twelfth Air Force and Pacific Air Command, completing his career as U.S. Air Force Chief of Staff.

    Source : Aviation Week & Space Technology :

    • I enjoyed that, nomad. I thought it was very well written. And it’s kind of caught up in my thoughts right now.
      “Just be true…to you”, my favorite part.

    • nM, I’m interested in your song lyrics, as I’m deaf and can’t hear the audio.
      If you’d post the lyrics, it would be much appreciated.

          • Thanks ByGeorge. It has been rolling around in my head for awhile. It was good to get it out.

            Now I just wish the Finder would put the chest in a museum or something…so I can I move on.

          • nm,

            I understand the dilemma but my dad always said… Wish in one hand, shi# in the other and see which one gets fullest first.
            After a few handfuls of wishing I figured it out.

            Now I just daydream enjoy the pretty colors that roll around in my head. Enjoy your day. Beautiful day in Illinois, for November.

            ByGeorge

          • Buckey Bob/Rock/Tall Andrew/By George, and anyone/everyone else.

            Thanks for listening to it. I had started writing it before Forrest passed, and I mentioned it to him on his Birthday page. It was a work in progress at that time.

            This has been a interesting adventure…you almost can’t make this up.

            ~nm

      • North of Santa Fe

        This is the story of Forrest Fenn,
        He hid a treasure chest in the mountains,
        North of Santa Fe.

        So I loaded up my truck with my diggin tools,
        And headed down the road, like a crazy fool,
        North of Santa Fe.

        Chorus:
        You may get rich, you may just die.
        But you’ll never know, unless you try.
        The Rocky Mountains are calling you,
        Tell me, what else can you do?
        But be true, to you.

        He said begin where warm water halts,
        And take a canyon, but not too far.
        Below the Home of Brown.

        If you’re meek you best stay home,
        Heavy loads could break your bones.
        Below the Home of Brown.

        Chorus:
        The lure of gold is calling you,
        Tell me, what else can you do?
        The Rocky Mountain majesty,
        Rising up above, me and you.
        Just be true, to you.

        If you’re standing at water high,
        Don’t slow down you’re near the prize.
        Below the Home of Brown.

        And if you’re wise and find the Blaze,
        Look quickly down, you’ll be amazed.
        Below the Home of Brown.

        Chorus:
        You might be crazy, you may go mad.
        You may lose everything you had.
        The lure of gold is calling you,
        Tell me, what else can you do?
        Just be true, to you.

        Well, I remember the day he died,
        The mountains rumbled and the angels cried.
        North of Santa Fe.

        So if you see a homely girl,
        Smile just a little, could save her world.
        North of Santa Fe.

        The lure of gold is calling you,
        Tell me, what else can you do?
        The Rocky Mountain majesty,
        Rising up above, me and you.
        Just be true, to you.

        The Rocky Mountains are calling you,
        Tell me what else can you do?
        Just be true.

  61. I wonder if the solve could be deceptively simple. I found something in the poem that I can’t believe I never noticed. Forrest did say he thought kids might have an advantage. I think he said that because adults tend to over complicate things.
    I think the blaze is the 3 W’s in WWWH. And I think he’s trying to get you to notice the letter T. Allow me to explain.
    As I have gone alone in there: This line I think has a double meaning. The letter T is the only letter that appears in every line of the poem. You can also take it literally. T goes alone in the word There.
    I can keep my secret where: I think this one has a double meaning too. He’s trying to get you to notice the W’s in WWWH by using the word where. He also uses the word secret on this line. Secret is a six-letter word that ends with T. I think the six letters represent the six stanzas of the poem.
    Now take a closer look at the last line. “I give you [t]itle [t]o [t]he gold.” It repeats the pattern of the WWWH line. Then look at the first two lines of the blaze stanza. “If you’ve been [w]ise and found (found can also mean begin) the blaze, look quickly down (telling you to look down at the last line) your quest to cease.”
    There’s a reservoir in Wyoming called Three T Reservoir, and it is shaped like the stick the finder put in the chest.

    • Dal – From that awesome article:

      “Forrest was just a rascal,” says David Hurst Thomas, a senior curator at the American Museum of Natural History, “what you see in the Native American oral literature all the time about the trickster coyote.”

      So much for getting the bronze chest, and associated materials from The Chase, into the Smithsonian’s National Museum of American History, right?

      Sorry, Forrest! Giggles.

    • Thanks for sharing Dal. It’s amazing how many different takes there are on the life and follies of Mr. Fenn. I’m still just silently taking it all in….

  62. It’s interesting to see how others reacted to the treasure being found. I was happy for Forrest and Peggy. The Chase had ended while they were alive and that was good enough for me. Heck, I was smiling when it came on the news and scratching my head at the end. What baffles me is all the 2-face negativity from so many?

    How can you not be happy for them? And how can you NOT find something else to do after the fact? Look around, it’s free country…per se. Join a pool league or a book club. Get out more. Wear a mask and act like a criminal, I do. Practice yoga with a toga for Yoda. Take up jogging in traffic, it helps calm the nerves. Go fly kyte with a key.

    Come on man…get a grip. Did ya have fun?

  63. I do admire the time Justin and Cynthia spent with BOTG. My favorite part is they spent most of their time with “Mans Best Friend.” RIP Molly. Think of the dogs that have passed during this Chase. Obviously Forrest was a dog lover, lots of dogs wondering what their masters were searching for.

    The dog sat looking with a stare
    his master looking and unaware
    for a treasure or maybe a lost bone
    seems he always looking at a phone

    I love it when he leaves it in his car
    out walking near and far
    No distractions ringing my Master
    as we search moving fast then faster

    Our dog, our best friend by far
    sitting together under a canopy of stars.

    Thanks Dal

  64. Hello Dal. In the first photo in regards to Mr. Fenn’s missions, he states as follows:

    “#2 MSN. R.T.B. WITH HOT GUNS LOOKING FOR TGT.”

    What does R.T.B. stand for?

    • Pdenver
      Returned to base

      In most lingo, but not necessarily that of ff,
      Hot Guns would mean
      active engagement mission
      Cold guns,. No action
      But am at a loss about the looking for target

    • Return To Base…
      So after mission #1 was completed and all their bombs were dropped on the target it was reported that the enemy was in the trees nearby. So (speculation on my part begins here) on their way back to the base they made a slight diversion. (This is probably why they were so low on fuel when they landed) They flew over the jungle looking for signs of the enemy. All they had left were their machine guns since all the bombs were deployed. So they kept the guns ready (hot) and probably flew low looking for signs of the enemy in the trees. Although it doesn’t say what happened it is likely that they shot the hell out of the trees just in case. It’s pretty hard to see troops hiding in the trees when you’re flying low at 100knts. Forrest labeled this Mission #2 since it was clearly another target and not part of their first mission.

      • Thank you for your help, Dal. I greatly appreciate it. When I originally read it, I thought he went out again, mission #2, and the “hot guns” was coming back with bombs not dropped… “hot”. It certainly makes sense now.

      • Hello Dal. Please know the information you gave hasn’t gone unnoticed by me. I had replied yesterday, but somehow it went into moderation.

      • pdenver – musta missed ya in the moderation-room last time 🙁

        i’m there quite often (amazingly) ..so am looking forward to seeing ya re: your next major HoD ‘misdemeanour’

        please think “the breakfast club” here

        – it’ll be fun!! 🙂

        • Good morning, curious hobbit! Nice to see you posting! Reading your comment made me giggle. 🙂 I think it was just a little glitch in the system because what I tried to post was quite innocent. I simply thanked Dal for helping me understand what the initials stood for and his understanding of it and I explained how I interpreted the second mission before asking for help..

  65. I am surprised there was anything left of that country when we left. This was one pilot and not all of his missions. Multiply this by ? Pilots Over the course of years. What a tragedy.

  66. As we speak of missions of war, call signs and communication. I would like to thank all the Veterans that have kept our Americans Flag flying with honor. To all the brave men and women.
    Happy Veterans Day

  67. Starting today, by Executive Order of the Secretary of the Interior last month, all veterans and Gold Star families have free unlimited access to all National Parks, National Forests, National monuments, wildlife refuges and other public lands — in perpetuity — in recognition for their service to our country. A well-deserved and a rather appropriate way to honor the servicemen and servicewomen via the special lands they fought to protect. Thank you to the many veterans who grace Dal’s blog!

  68. Today is Veterans Day – Remembrance day.

    A day that gives way to honor all veterans, one in particular. His service did not end after his military career, it just changed.

    My hats off to him and all veterans.

    To: FF
    GH

  69. happy Veterans Day guys – sincerely hope we don’t need to celebrate these days too often in our near future for all families

    bit off subject, but just am abit curious about a few things..

    1) how cool is Dal for keeping the HoD channels open and operating?
    [options : super-cool or not super-cool]

    2) how much is Forrest the modern exception to the rule of late?
    [scale: 1 – 10]

    3) do we miss the chest/chase, more-so than the rascal who hid it?
    [options: yes/no]

    4) was it fun searching for a treasure chest around the most impressive terrain on Her earth?
    [options: absolutely or positively]

    5) is Zaps really actually a friggin’ rocket scientist?
    [options: most probably]

    6) is Randawg actually a Meercat in disguise?
    [options: most definitely.. but sshhhh!!]
    🙂

    7) does a troublesome hobbit miss the camaraderie of like-minded rascals?
    [options: NOPE not at all/well maybe sometimes/ok ok..more than a hobbit will ever admit]

    • As long as we are a Nation, We will always have Veterans and Will Always Celebrate Veterans Day. Thank you Veterans from Sea to Shining Sea for Your Service to Our Country.

    • thankfully we’re all a planetary nation Dave – and can therefore more easily learn globally

      but i thoroughly enjoyed all your Capital Letters mate ..given my poor eyesight 🙂

      • Curious, my options agree exactly with pdenver, with one exception. I’m seeing the chicken of the sea mermaid enter this scenario somehow. It’s almost like the “Never Ending Story” where we are only guessing and might never know for sure. Isn’t that kind of like the fantasy-based story by Michael Ends where the darkness destroys everything?

      • Suzy

        re: “the never-ending story” ..watched it, loved it, and recently adopted a small magical dragon here, which Dal has photos

        just in-case he’s being too butt-lazy to publish .. i’ll link as-close-as possible to my newest family addition

        https://youtu.be/GUxV_PDupbQ

        albeit your dragon may be highly magical.. but mine is uniquely anti-static and eternally annoying
        😛

        • Super cool pet! The long tail of that dragon bothers me though. He/she could hang from anywhere or hide out on a dark night in a pine forest… scary!

        • Suzy

          mine is young/small enough to almost hold in one hand – and is def too focused on eating everything, gently chewing my left ear and general chaotic playfulness, rather than joining an international ninja gang at mo – sorry to disappoint

          ..will def let ya know if circumstances change tho
          🙂

        • my sincerest apologies pdenver,
          for shamelessly exaggerating about me owning a mythical legendary Dodge Bee V8 muscle car in burnt orange with Cragar mags, a super-charger and 8track stereo

          the sad honest truth is.. i recently painted it Lime Green
          🙂 🙂 🙂

    • I like your questions, curious hobbit. I’d answered the following:

      1. Super-cool.
      2. Which rule?
      3. No.
      4. Absolutely.
      5. I think Zaps is smart.
      6. I don’t know.
      7. Big hug to my friend.

    • pdenver

      congrats.. you solely have managed to answer all questions correctly

      [quickly.. meet me in Vegas at next full moon ..i’ll be in the bright pink ’59 Caddy convertible]

      [ ..so-as-to not draw any attention or anything 🙂 ]

      • Ooooh, I love convertibles, especially a Chrysler. Vegas at the next full moon and look for you in a bright pink ’59 Caddy convertible. Gotcha. 🙂

      • sorry pdenver – all the pink Caddy’s are pre-booked apparently 🙁

        all i got is a rusty old ’71 Dodge Super Bee 426hemi stick-shift with less than 10k on the clock & full tank of gas, in burnt orange with fat Cragars..

        ..darn it 🙂 🙂 🙂

        • That’s okay. Maybe I’ll borrow our ’76 Mercury Cougar, 351 modified, 2-door. Runs good, no brakes. That’ll get us somewhere, right??? (Giggle.)

          • Talking about vehicles, I’m reminded of Mr. Fenn’s “Bullet”. I wonder if there was ever a “dream vehicle” he’s ever wanted. Do you think the “Bullet” was his?

          • tbh, pretty sure he’d secretly wished for a ’71 Dodge pdenver, but i could be wrong there by some miracle

            was Forrests ‘bullet’ an old 40’s single spinner Ford?
            ..i keep thinking of Steve McQueens Mustang 🙂

          • Hi pdenver: as I recall, after all the effort to find the Bullet’s twin, Forrest didn’t end up keeping it for long. Sometimes the reality of a thing doesn’t measure up to the memory — I guess that’s a corollary to Thomas Wolfe’s “You can never go home again.” So after all, it really is the Thrill of the Chase…

          • Hello zaphod. I recall the story he told about selling Bullet II and was sad to hear about it. It’s true that it’s hard to surpass the original memory. It’s what made it so special. I do believe it was the thrill of the chase.

          • Hello curious hobbit. The colored photos are Bullet II and the black and white is the sketch of the original. I think if the original came back and was placed side-by-side with Bullet II, he’s take the original in a heartbeat. As for the exercise he would have gotten from it, I can imagine his arms going in different directions with signaling and the gear(s), and his leg(s) on the pedals. No wonder why he was in such good shape! Your gym membership comment gave me the giggles. 🙂

          • Hi Zaps – Ya Big Snob 😛

            i had to google ‘corollary’ and even then i didn’t understand
            (i got bored reading it tbh)

            have you found that darn Texan with gold teeth yet? 🙂

          • Thank you for the MW link, curious hobbit. It was good to go back and read a little bit about it. I thought the before and after pictures were great. The very first time my family and I met Mr. Fenn, Bullet II was mentioned because my husband and one of our six kids who was there knew quite a bit about cars. It’s a memory I won’t forget.

          • Hi my green friend with upside-down constellations! You’re right: I shouldn’t use four-syllable words on a Friday. (Constellation: whoops again). But I couldn’t immediately think of a simpler word for corollary… er, a corollary for corollary if you will.

            As for Ken of the conspicuous shiny dentition, I suspect he’s on a beach in Bora Bora using a bronze chest as a footstool, or more probably as a stand for his umbrella-adorned mai tai. 😉

            Then again, was Ken really a “shy” guy? He was at least from “back East” (a little ol’ place known for its maple syrup). But he started searching long before 2018…

          • beautiful car pdenver, without a doubt

            i sorta secretly picture the gangsta-Forrest with a hat, cigar and Thompson ..too many movies in my small brain maybe

            more importantly though, a Plymouth is a Chrysler which is essentially a Dodge ..which is def good enough for this humble hobbit 🙂

          • Maybe just a “little” bit of movies? (Giggle.) It looks like part of the top could be exposed to let his hair blow. Pre-convertible and a Chrysler? I like the thought. I think I would visualize Mr. Fenn, if not letting his hair blow in the wind, but wearing the hat his mother made him, blue jeans, white t-shirt and loafers while picking up Mrs. Fenn from school.

          • Hello my twin-headed british space explorer from zero meridian

            i know ya not a snob ..just wanted to get your attention, but entirely agree that all words possessing more than three syllables should be banned forever, on a friday (and monday)

            i dunno how shy Ken was, he seemed to tolerate my teasing so must have thickish skin imho, and def wielded a sharp wit
            i like him and quietly hope he’s ok

            btw, what the heck is this?
            https://youtu.be/E9NDhDgZsek

          • p.s ..i am certainly doubtful whether a 10inch box is sturdy enough for a ‘Ken-sized Man Tai with Extra Maple Syrup’ tbh

            but could be wrong 🙂

          • Curious Hobbit: looks like a typical satellite reentry, though I haven’t been able to positively ID which object was responsible for the show. The Chinese rocket body that launched VENESAT-1 in Oct 2008 reentered about that time, and would have made a pass close the Hawaiian Islands, so that’s a possibility.

          • Zaps – yes, learned of the 2008 CN booster reentry, but should’ve only been visible over Hawaii area if orbited an extra 24hrs (?) ..surprised too your global tracking system didn’t pre-advise local residents

            also curious about timed blinking light intervals, parallel/uniform formation and lack of separation and burn-trail at such low height and speed

            …is that common?

    • 1 – SOUPER COOL
      2 – his rules?
      3 – Nope…He’s more fun.
      4 – Ab-Salute-ly!!!
      5 – Zap is a rock star?
      6 – probably, but what’s a meercat?
      7 – MORE than he knows?

      The HOD has always been my favorite info center. The list of characters that made this group tick makes me smile.

      I believe that if ya hang around smart people long enough then something’s bound to rub off…that’s why I keep my distance!

      Maybe that’s why Forrest is always leaning in on people in so many pictures….maybe he’s hoping something rubs off on ya, or vice versa. Only God knows how many rubs for sure, but the educational massage was delightful.

      Great questions CH…

      ByGeorge

    • just to add slightly to denver’s natural curiosity re: your retro caravan/trailer

      have you been arrested recently by the origami fashion police yet (?)

      i mean.. i’m just abit worried is all
      🙂

      • After camping in tents for a few years, my husband and I bought a used pop-up trailer. I believe it was a ’69 Stury. It held two adults and six kids beautifully. Four oldest kids had the two pullout beds, my husband had the youngest son on a fold-down table, and I had our youngest daughter on the other table, along with her stuffed animals, too. Sure, it looked like we parked a Flintstone vehicle amongst Cadillacs, but we wouldn’t have traded it for the world. We still talk about it and how we miss it. It was the first trailer where we introduced Yellowstone to the kids and what fun memories we have.

        Going back to tent camping, there was a time we went in Rocky Mountain National Park to watch the Perseid meteor shower. We placed our sleeping bags on the ground to make it easier to stare up into the night sky. Well, shortly thereafter, my husband said a “couple words” and wondered what happened. A small pica came and touched his cheek and he jumped up quickly. Needless to say, we placed our sleeping bags on the picnic table and stared into the night sky.

        I hope others will continue to take Mr. Fenn’s challenge to take themselves and their families and head out into the fresh air and do some camping and exploring. They’ll find great memories.

        When you did your search with your brother curious hobbit, did you camp?

        • pdenver

          1) that is an honest story and i love the way you recollect and write it

          2) i only tease Dal coz it’s my culture to do so.and because i have sincere respect for him, as i do Zaps, Jake, Nikan , Spallies (def Randawg!!) and all those other rascals ..which means he’s fair game

          3) have you actually seen his caravan tho?

          4) what is a “pica”?

          5) no, we drove up from LA on Labour Day and loved ever minute of the landscape and sunshine (was winter in our sphere) i’ve had off-track experience so my brother was happy to bush-bash into Carnellion creek together and was def well worth the effort – good memories are our biggest wealth by far imho

          6) but i grew up camping and I’m taking my son snorkelling, hiking and swimming here for a week of December (yes, in a tent ..with air mattresses) if that counts?
          https://youtu.be/UC93VaVlu7Y

          which coincidentally is where this happened..
          https://youtu.be/bTIcQMwYC1o

          ..so, wish us luck 🙂

          • Hello curious hobbit.

            1. Thank you for your kind words. I’m glad you like the story.

            2. I know you have a big-younger brother friendship with Dal and I think it’s fun. You have a great friendship with us and it puts a smile on my face. 🙂

            3. I’ve seen the photo(s) Dal posted of his home away from home. I was so happy for the two of them.

            4. A pica is a cute furry little critter. The family came across another pica years later in Rocky Mountain National Park. The little critter was in the middle of the road while we were elk viewing and it didn’t move. My youngest son and I got out of the car and it still didn’t move. My son tried to give it a tiny nudge with his foot after we tried clapping hands and stomping feet, but it ended up crawling under his cowboy boot. That’s how tiny it was. Shortly thereafter when my son lifted his boot and it eventually moved off the road. I think the other drivers were glad we moved it off the road, too.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4U9IxhQSTc

            5. Nice! I looked up the creek on YouTube this morning and someone recently posted a video of the Carnellion Creek wolf pack. Did you see them?

            6. Sounds like a lot of fun! The videos are absolutely breathtaking and the orcas encounter is wild! I wish you luck and a whole lot of fun! 🙂

          • hi pdenver

            i’m an avid animal lover so instantly love Picas! ..cheers

            and big respect to your son for protecting such a fragile critter – must be a result of great parenting imho

            Dal has a few photos of my recently adopted baby-possum-reascalous-critter that i hoped he might share, so until he gets off his lazy-retired-butt and publishes them, his origami caravan is def fair-game

            This is the Way 🙂

          • Hello curious hobbit. Thank you for your kind words. I greatly appreciate it. I remember my mother telling me about having a possum in Florida either before or after I was born. Possum was safe from the gators that would come to the door at night. I sit here and remember the story Mr. Fenn told about having a bobcat in the family. The story I really love about wild animals he told was the one about lifting up a baby bear so that it could get to its mother which was nearby.

          • pdenver – takes a brave soul to voluntarily get between a cub and it’s worried 500lb mother imho ..which speaks volumes of Forrests big-heartedness

            my mum had a wild pet wallaby (small kangaroo) in her youth
            ..it would knock at the door when it was hungry or wanted to play tag in the back-yard 🙂

          • Hello curious hobbit. I agree with his big heartedness. I’ve wondered how Willie is doing since his passing. I would guess he still climbs on top of the empty chair waiting for his Master’s return. The story of your mom’s pet put a smile on my face. 🙂

  70. so the one thing that confused me about the actual solve, Justin kept saying the Longitude was dead on, and the Latitude was off by 900′ or so… but the last wrap around “2”. would be added to the Longitude, correct? so that the longitude was off by .10 seconds…. and the reason it took so long to find actual spot.

    anyone have a better/different interpretation as to what happened there?
    (thank god for closure anyway). I’ve properly admonished my self for knowing that the precision could only come about with two maybe three ways, but then I discounted GPS because it would mean a cypher… head buried deeply in hands, I wish I had never read another word but the TTOTC. the apparently only way to actually solve, ignoring all ATF comments.

      • Hi NoName06
        Yes I think between Finder and Forrest they tell
        where the TC was at to a certain degree.look at
        the last picture of the scissors and the dragon
        bracelet.why else would they bring this up.
        Clint

        • Maybe he thought it was worth mentioning the scissors because a lot of people saw them in the pictures and wondered why they were in there. I found it amusing that they found their way in the contents of the chest by accident.

          • It was no accident. Somebody suggested that the scissors may have been intended as a reference to FF’s “umbilical” comment, although this won’t be a big aid to solving the poem. Same with the stick/twig. I’d ignore all of these little photographic details, as they only seem to function as
            part(s) of diversionary tactic(s). As always, my posting is part of my opinion.

      • no the finder did not, but like all real life solutions to something like a murder, someone snitched, (a group of searchers working on it). but this “source” from the larger group was not included in the spoils, so he/she gave the solution, which in my opinion there is no question about as one looks back over the ATFs it is obvious. ( in this case, I just disagree with Zap). the solution is explained in a YouTube video by Cowlazers. (hopefully I spelled that correctly).

        but there is a question about the last “2”. the solution is in Degrees Min. Seconds… but the seconds as Zap pointed out, and a literal interpretation is about 900′ off. and there is a reason, I am just not clear on. it is a matter of notation… but I think Justin in the video confused the longitude with latitude, when he said it was off… or there is a way to use the last 2 in latitude.. I don’t know the exact spot, only the spot within 900′, so I can not make a judgment on how it is off, as those three do know, (along with finder group, and this source)

        for the ATF about cypher, I believe this is why FF considered it not a cypher, it is literally just the words being used, there is no “look up” table or complexity to it,

        especially explains the “straight forward” nature of it… the “why didn’t I think of that”, and something like: “children might have an advantage”…. which of course a cypher would not give children an advantage…

        I look at some quotes from FF when someone asked if the “blaze” could be pre determined. clever FF… very clever… he said something like: I’ve been sitting here for 30 “min” and I’ll have to pass on that. you’ll have to find it, it is very clever but one would only know after knowing the solution. the quotes just go on an on…

        like making on the lines cross in the right spot, and “I am not going to put an “X” on it for you”… just on and and on.

        it is so obvious that this is the solution… (if I can get a clarification on the last “2”).

        the contiguous thing… he made certain to say to start at the ‘beginning’. and that “begin” was the start… and the quote of ending at the beginning from a poet, (sorry I just have a bad memory and am not looking things up right now)..

        combined I believe a loop is contiguous… that is how I read it… no one has to agree with me on that… and I respect Zap on his opinion that this would not be contiguous… I simply disagree.

        • for the technology quote, this is what I believe ff meant, (again only my opinion). they were not literally GPS coordinates, we all just use that as a general word for everything now, the solution is in degrees, mins, and seconds, which was long used before “modern” GPS tech. so you could draw a line on a “map”. without any tech, (per say, in the way I believe ff meant it). and come to that spot. of course GPS will get you there much more easily with a big smile on your face both going and coming back… 🙂

          • still slapping my self silly for not taking literally the quote that goes something like, you ignore any words in the poem at your peril. head even deeper in hands…

          • Forrest said we can’t ignore any of the nouns in the poem. Not one of those words used to create the coordinates is a noun.

          • Hi Zap, this is the one I wish I had taken to heart: quote: “There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them”.

            it turns out that most all the words in the poem are hugely misleading and completely un-useful, just a few words that are… clever… very clever…

          • the other quote about the keyword…. geeze, I wish I had never seen any of those quotes…

            he didn’t mean a “single” word that happened once in the poem, the word was key, and happens to be in the poem several times…. one figures that “key” out, you’d quickly figure out “for” and “one”. and maybe later… “ten”…

            talk about riding the bicycle backwards.. wish I had a mind that was less (step 1, step 2)… or the intelligence to try to think different. lesson learned, I will take it to heart. now to go cry in my soup more. need the salt.

          • You seem quite clever, Writis (including your avatar) . . . almost as if teasing with some real hint(s). I believe that no numbers are needed correctly solve the poem. But some (relatively common) “scientific” knowledge could be helpful.
            As always, in my opinion.

        • MW Featured Question (8/9/2016): “Hello Forrest, If in 500 years all a person has is the poem, and no back story: they don’t know ‘in the rocky mountains north of santa fe’ or that there are 9 clues etc. Could a person reasonably just use the words in the poem and find your treasure chest? Thank you ~Nope”

          FF: “Thank you Nope. Nope. f”

          Link: http://mysteriouswritings.com/featured-question-with-forrest-fenn-500-years-from-now/

          • What do you think he meant by, “searchers are stepping on the ants while the elephants run by.” Or “searchers are looking so far ahead they can’t see what’s right in front of them.”?

          • we are only assuming “W” and “N” only because we know “somewhere north of Santa Fe” and later “New Mexico” and later Rocky Mountains. but “north of” is key.

            let us put it this way, the odds of just those eight clues from “begin” it, landing in Yellowstone are astronomical the way they line up like that… imo

            and I am one of those people who saw solves using the letter cyphers and discounted it because there were too many ways of doing it and one could make any thing result from cyphers like that…. but this solution is just plain elegant to a fault, lines up with everything ff said, even things where he appears to mislead… like: if I told you that, (where home of brown is). you’d walk straight to it. because he can’t tell you where brown is, if it is just made up, well I guess he does have the secondary solution of just general references to landmarks which in no way would get a person close enough to find said chest.

          • Did you not find it odd that he never said you have to solve any of the clues? He always used the word follow. “If you follow the clues precisely” were the words he used in his book. So maybe the specifics like WWWH and HoB don’t matter. It seems like he’s trying to get you to notice 2 things in the poem. He uses past, present, and future tenses to help you a bit with some clever word play. Like his usage of the word “quickly.” Quick can mean other things than just done at a fast speed. It can also mean the most important part of something.

          • Hi Writis: you speak of odds, which is an excellent perspective to explore.

            “… the odds of just those eight clues from “begin” it, landing in Yellowstone are astronomical the way they line up like that… imo”

            They’re not astronomical at all. It’s a case of the marksman’s fallacy: drawing the target after you’ve shot. Justin *knew* what coordinates he needed (specifically, a longitude that started with 110, and a latitude that started with 44), and then manufactured a technique for generating them. Yet even so, the coordinates generated were of such poor precision that you couldn’t possibly use them to navigate to a 12-foot spot. You couldn’t even use them to navigate within a mile.

            “… but this solution is just plain elegant to a fault, lines up with everything ff said…”

            I’ve given several examples of how the GPS solution is in 100% conflict with what statements Forrest has made or written. I don’t understand why smart folks like yourself won’t debate the salient, specific points that have been brought up that blow holes through this solution.

            I will make a separate post on coordinate precision to illustrate why this homonym-kangaroo coordinate extraction system fails.

        • Writis: another issue. There has to be a distinctive feature, identifiable by Forrest, that could appear in a photograph taken at least 200 feet away from the treasure so that Forrest would know that a searcher had been that close:

          The Cutting Room Floor (9/17/2016), my transcript: FF: “I have positive indication that people have been within 200 feet. I don’t know that anyone has been closer than 200 feet of the treasure.”
          Janet (interviewer): “And that knowledge comes from what, emails that they talk… have written to you?”
          FF: “And photographs. People tell me where … normally people tell me generally where they are, but not specifically. But, these people told me exactly where they were – I recognized the spot — and… but I didn’t tell them that they were close.”

          There is no such uniquely identifiable feature/landmark ~200 feet away from Justin’s location.

          Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FIOy9TggUc

          • If it’s any consolation, I don’t think the GPS solve is right either. It’s a good try though.

          • I’d be reluctant to compliment it by saying “good try”, but I
            admit that I don’t know what it was really trying to achieve.
            If its purpose was a distraction/diversion, I’d say it’s doing
            quite an effective job. All IMO.

    • Hi Writis
      I think I have found answers to the riddles in the poem in all
      Three of his books TTOTC/tftw/OUAW think of his treasures
      BOLD.The BOLD I think has to be in the lay of land and
      surrounding mountains, how else would the clues last
      for the thousand years.Clint

      • Especially if the answers are right there in the poem. That landscape will most certainly not change as long as copies of his poems still exist in a thousand years.

    • Hi Writis: in my opinion, the “GPS Solve” should be completely dismissed. Nevertheless, for the benefit of those (like Cynthia and Justin) who felt this solution gave them closure, I compiled a list of 10 issues with it from a dispassionate mathematical and geographical perspective. (I didn’t feel the need to remind them of at least a dozen Forrest ATFs that conflict with it.) My point was just to show how unworkable their imprecise coordinates were. I repeat those 10 points here:

      1. The coordinates do not start at the beginning of the poem. (They DO at least begin after the poem word “Begin”, but if that was meant as a hint from Forrest, then why aren’t the coordinates complete by the time you get to the poem word “cease”?)
      2. The coordinate stream is not contiguous: it starts on poem line 7, continues through to line 24, and then wraps around to line 1. Forrest has said the clues are both contiguous and sequential.
      3. The construction of the digits of the coordinates are ad hoc: addition of written number words (one and one) for line 1, addition of homophone words on line 7 (too and to) and line 18 (for and to), solitary homophones for 4 of the remaining 6 clue lines, but written word extraction for the other two (dONE and lisTEN).
      4. “One” and “ten” as fragments of words are acceptable, but standalone “I”‘s are ignored as possible visual equivalents of the number one.
      5. The coordinate precision is inconsistent between the latitude (44d 26′) and longitude (110d 42′ 02” or 110d 42.2′).
      6. The coordinate precision is nowhere near sufficient to navigate a searcher to “within several steps of the treasure chest.” Thus, it is not a “correct solve” by Forrest’s definition in his Periodic Words of 6/2/2017. (The uncertainty on the latitude is particularly poor: over a mile. Even the longitude is only provided to a precision of about 435 feet.)
      7. Since there are no 6’s, 7’s, 8’s or 9’s in the coordinates, there is ambiguity over whether the coordinates are degrees-minutes-seconds, degrees-decimal minutes, or decimal degrees. Taking the longitude as an example, it could be 110d 42′ 02″, 110d 42.2’, or 110.422 degrees. There do not appear to be instructions in the poem to tell you which system is correct.
      8. The datum of the coordinates do not appear to be provided by the poem. GPS units default to WGS-84, but most maps are datum NAD-27. In the Rocky Mountains, there is an over 200-foot difference between those two datums. That said, Forrest may have given a clue to the datum by hiding “GPS” vertically in column 24 of the poem. GPS in the U.S. defaults to WGS-84, which is probably how 99% of users have their GPS units configured.
      9. EIS Radio quote from Forrest on 8/8/2003: “Technology is not going to help you find that treasure.” Seems to me that a GPS unit might be critical to navigating to a random spot in the forest — not that these encoded coordinates are precise enough to do so.
      10. Because there are so many simple ways to extract coordinates from the poem, there is no way to distinguish the correct method from all the incorrect methods. Repetition of the coordinates in the poem would help achieve that, but these coordinates are not repeated with this system.

      • Zap, if Forrest modeled the Chase after an Indian Jones style hunt, then by Harrison Ford’s own words, “X never ever marks the spot”.

        Seems plausible, anyways.

        • If some (“a little”?) imagination is used, one may be able to figure out why FF mentioned anything related to an X. It’s nothing clearly obvious; one would need a rather broad
          understanding of FF’s character/beliefs/values to “see” how this
          X would be applied. It took almost 4 years of trying to solve the poem, before I was comfortable with my immersion in all of it to
          the point of believing that I had sufficient understanding of the
          connections/meanings, etc. Included in this effort was reading 3 of FF’s latest books, reading close to a half-dozen forums about this hunt, and very frequent consultation with several online dictionaries. Also frequently using wikipedia as a reference for general or specific knowledge.

          Here’s a freebie . . . thinking in terms more of a “cross” instead of the letter X worked for me.

          FF seemed kinda repetitive with his hints. He said that everybody needs an intersection. Also something about where
          all the lines cross. I did a lot of guessing at what he may have meant by those things. I imagined lines of people crossing
          something, such as a border. I thought of railroad ties
          “crossing” the rails. But only after solving about 7, 8, or 9 clues (to my satisfaction, that is) did I start to see any reasonable
          connection to those hints. Yes, I looked at topo maps, which
          typically show an X at a relatively “high” spot. But that didn’t seem to help. As always, IMO.

      • Hello zap. Here is another Q & A for others to consider:

        Question posted 7/4/2014:

        You told a reporter that there are three or four clues in the second stanza. Were you telling the truth? ~Alison R

        I don’t know what it is about girls but when I say something they automatically ask if I’m lying. Shame on you Allison R. I promise you that I get more things right than most reporters. If you were here I would make you take a dose of castor oil. Besides, if I lied to the reporter what makes you think I would tell you the truth?

        Sorry Alison, I’m off my soap box now. No, I was not lying but I don’t remember a reporter asking me such a question.f

        • Bingo, pdenver. Another huge strike against the GPS solution. A single digit of the GPS solution is derived from that entire stanza.

          • ff seems to have a secondary storyline going in the poem, where one could use “home of Brown” and such. Put there to give the Poem a double entendre, for purposes of solving the poem two ways, (although I don’t think that way would get a person close to the chest to find)

            the key for me is in the finder’s story, the Finder didn’t seem to “solve” that type of poem, like he didn’t know any of the clues, only where ff wanted to die and leave his body. In this elegant solution, it makes it obvious as to why he only knew of the place ff wanted to die, basically he knew the end point, rather than the beginning point, (wwwh and such). never the path… only the end. which seemed strange, but makes sense with this solve, it also explains why someone would spend 25 days in the same 900′ area… if the solve were not so “obvious” imo, others would give up thinking their solve was not correct, This person knew he was correct, and pushed on. probably finally gave in and brought in a metal detector on the opening day of the park this season, June 1st. and found it in a single day after a grid search.

            sounded desperate enough that it would make sense how after so many tries, he finds it on opening day this season.

          • Zap- also another strike against the gps solve is the fact that f said something like when the solve is revealed, people will laugh and say why did it take me so long?! The gps solve doesn’t have that wow factor. There has to be a lot of stuff that’s closely related to all the clues in the poem IMO.

        • Zaps – i also thought coords were the key after reading this;
          “Try to marry the two. The treasure is out there waiting for the person who can make all the lines cross in the right spot.”

          and also the Declination lines on his map were curious

          but that’s a lot of numbers even for a global plot, let alone a local/national geodetic system

          but once i read “Whoever finds the treasure will mostly earn it with their imagination” i dusted off the chalk board and firmly face-palmed with both hands

          ( ..had a full piece of chalk in both hands at the time btw)

          ( ..looked exactly like Marcel Marceau after that little encounter 🙁 )
          🙂

          • Curious Hobbit: sorry for the delay in replying to this post of yours — I agree it’s natural to think that maybe the intersecting lines of a latitude and a longitude were what Forrest was hinting at when he made that “make all the lines cross in the right spot” comment. Certainly plenty have tried to literally do that in various ways.

            However, four years earlier Forrest used that same phrase in a metaphorical sense, perhaps suggesting we shouldn’t be taking it too literally:

            Mysterious Writings 6-Questions (2/4/2013): Q6: “After reading your book, and sensing you have found a sincere peace and purpose in your life, but knowing others still struggle with this ultimate find, I wonder, what would your advice be to others for realizing the contentment it seems you now know? Do you feel the thrill of the chase (not the hunt) is vital?”

            FF: “There is an appropriate quote in the Duveen biography by Secrest: “They never knew that it was the chase they sought and not the quarry.” I see my memoir as being a story that was ordained by some unknown hand. It came to me at age eighty as though my entire life had been waiting for that moment. The bulk of the book was written in six weeks and phrases that I had never thought of before, suddenly appeared on my computer screen. I said in the forward that the book wrote itself. I had written seven books before this one, and it seemed that none of the lines crossed where they were supposed to, metaphorically speaking.”

            Link: http://mysteriouswritings.com/six-questions-with-forrest-fenn-author-of-the-thrill-of-the-chase/

            As for the curves of equal magnetic declination on the TFTW map, that’s still a big head-scratcher for me. For one thing, those arcs are not static — they’ve actually moved quite a bit since TFTW came out. There just an odd element to include in a treasure map.

            Loved your Marcel Marceau chalk-face imagery. 🙂

          • Mr Zaps

            1) never apologise for the unintended small stuff

            2) respect for your astute detail to research, as per usual

            2.1) are you related to Seeker?

            3) agree, dec-angle increases mildly per-annum re: magnetic vs true north vs Lat – soooo, very soon the great continent of Hobbit-World will be on top of this small planet
            ..and then the fun truly begins

            4) did you know Marcel Marceau’s dad was a baker and his mum invented plastic-wrap??

            …fact!! 🙂

          • Hi Curious Hobbit: no, no relation to Seeker to my uncertain knowledge. Could very well be related to Diggin Gypsy, however, amusingly enough!

            “3) agree, dec-angle increases mildly per-annum re: magnetic vs true north vs Lat – soooo, very soon the great continent of Hobbit-World will be on top of this small planet
            ..and then the fun truly begins”

            I do find myself wondering what will happen with bird migration when the magnetic poles flip-flop again.

            4) did you know Marcel Marceau’s dad was a baker and his mum invented plastic-wrap??

            I wonder if Forrest named his dog Bip after Marcel’s character? And wasn’t Marcel’s father a butcher? I know, I know — you’re going to tell me he was also a candlestick maker. 😉

          • Zaps

            3) we have already pre-trained 5000 Stalks to deliver hobbit/yoda babies to your future Under-Hemisphere-World
            ..in order the charm the planet into peaceful submission

            3.1) do you think that’s enough Stalks to conquer this whole planet yet?

            3.2) if i keep track of their migratory patterns and feed them popcorn regularly, will that keep PETA happy?

            4) pretty sure Ken, Spallies, Randawg, pdenver, Hal2000, and several billion other civil citizens (..even Dal) would’ve got the clue to above Marcel riddle tbh

            4.1) but just in case.. @ 0.48
            https://youtu.be/XEsfpRrfXf4
            🙂

          • I, for one, have to ask, “Where is Dal?” and “Who is controlling our reality?”. Am I the only one to notice that weird things are going on here?

            It’ll be alright, it’s all a dream … it’s all a dream … it’s all a dream.

            Conscience: “Just to let you know, we’re hyper ventilating here!”

        • Hi pdenver (and Writis): here’s another ATF Q&A that the “coordinate homonym” solution would have difficulty explaining. It’s from Barbara’s “The Fenn Diagrams” from Summer 2014.

          Q4: “When you wrote the poem, did you start with the first clue or the ninth?”

          A4: “I knew all along where I wanted to hide the treasure so I didn’t need a map or any information to write the poem. Everything was in my head. It took me a while to get the wording exactly how I wanted it. Counting the clues and hiding the chest came later. It is not likely that anyone will find it without following the clues, at least in their mind.” Link: https://thefenndiagrams.com/q-a-with-fenn/fourth/

          To me, Forrest’s answer suggests that there is something special or distinctive about the particular spot he chose — something important perhaps only to him, but a specific location he’s known about for some time. Yet there is nothing at all special about the geography at the homonym coordinates: no long vistas (no true mountain view), no sage to smell, and a rather jarring missing element for a lifelong fisherman: no flywaters anywhere nearby. That does not jive with the personality of the man I’ve come to know through six of his books, hundreds of Scrapbooks, and dozens of interviews.

          There is a fact that seems to be lost on those who see elegance in the homonym/kangaroo coordinate answer: Forrest would have had to choose the spot precisely BECAUSE of its coordinates. Justin, Kpro, Mike and Cynthia never address this critical point.

          • Hi Zap,

            I also am puzzled by why Mr. Fenn stated he was willing to significantly pay way too much for the Chest because it was so perfect. What was so perfect about it? The dimensions? The ladders? The images?

            Seems to me that the hiding spot would need to be a “perfect” fit for the Chest. Otherwise, any old bronze or stainless steel treasure box would suffice.

            Also, what was the whole point with Clue number ten revealed in OUAW where Mr. Fenn parked his car at the Denver Museum of Nature and Science which sent everybody into a tizzy.

            Now here is something new for all to ponder. Recall, the HOD page for Architecture of the Poem. Well take out your pencil and straight edge and draw lines externally around the text so that the entire text is barely encompassed by straight lines connected in a dot to dot fashion.

            What do you see? It forms the outline of a wood coffin seen in the old western movies.

            hmmmmm, maybe dead men do tell tales if you know where to boot in.

          • Wind-
            I think I can answer your first question…
            “What was so perfect about it?”

            Forrest and I talked about his discovery and purchase of the chest on at least one occasion and I remember clearly him saying that it was “perfect”. He then went on to clarify that by “perfect” he meant that it fit his impression of what an ancient treasure chest should look like. It’s size would permit transport of the chest and the contents easily. It was bronze and would therefore last for hundreds of years. It was covered in ornamentation making it visually special and he was certain it would make a positive impact on whomever found it.

          • Hello Windsurfer. I believe the bronze chest may have been chosen to hold the items he wished to hide, plus, I’d like to think it has a “Wow” factor. As for the Denver Museum, Mr. Fenn told us the treasure chest was found in Wyoming, and there are searchers who believe it was in Yellowstone. The Denver Museum has a water feature which may remind others of water features in Yellowstone…geysers.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVLT8Oq7F4I

          • Hi Windsurfer: regarding Forrest’s particular choice of treasure chest, I think he chose pretty well — something that was worthy of its contents, and thus had a “wow” factor of its own.

            You opined: “Seems to me that the hiding spot would need to be a “perfect” fit for the Chest.”

            My guess is that Forrest constructed the “nook” to be right-sized for the box rather than the other way around.

            “Also, what was the whole point with Clue number ten revealed in OUAW where Mr. Fenn parked his car at the Denver Museum of Nature and Science which sent everybody into a tizzy.”

            Well, Forrest also informally numbered the “clues” he gave to the Today Show (above 5000′ in elevation, below 10,200′, not in Idaho, not in Utah, not in an outhouse, etc.) So I don’t think he meant “clue” in the sense that it was on par with the 9 clues in the poem. My only real take-away from the Denver Museum remark was that it would have been a clue of exclusion — ruling out the smallest search state of New Mexico. After all, why drive all the way to Denver to ditch your car if you hid the treasure in NM?

            If he ~had~ hidden the treasure in NM, it seems to me that a car in the Denver Museum parking lot would have been a clear case of subterfuge. And that would run afoul of his Random Words on Mysterious Writings of 3/16/2017:

            “*Don’t look for a trick or subterfuge from me, because there aren’t any. f”

          • Hi Zap: I guess we all see something different, I look at that same Q4, and see a expert salesmen answering a question, without answering it. and doing it thoughtfully so we think we obtained something, but instead are expertly mis-led by the reins to what we want to hear.

            I think we need to remember that ff needed to really think about how to not give away more clues. of course no one is perfect, so I am sure he made some mistakes, like the nothing to do with a “dam”. so that it was fair for everyone.

            I remember several people (including me) wondering why he didn’t mention water when someone asked him what they see if they were standing at the spot. I was fairly certain that this was not a misdirection. of course I was “certain” of many things. 🙂 more than 50% wrong.

            when I saw the finder story of ff saying “why did I put those in there” for the scissors. I knew immediately that when ff said he “thought of everything”, that this was salesmen talk for actually he didn’t think of everything. and knew it was in Yellowstone when also combining with the post about asking the lawyers what would happen if found on many examples of land ownership.

            when it was announced it was in Wyoming, I remember going over everything I thought about Wy, and thinking well there are extremely few spots in Wy that make any sense, and none of them made sense if discounting Yellowstone, which I had discounted. just like discounting coordinates, I was terribly wrong.

          • for this part of your post. ” Forrest would have had to choose the spot precisely BECAUSE of its coordinates. Justin, Kpro, Mike and Cynthia never address this critical point.”

            I think this is backwards, I think ff would have to choose the words in the poem precisely, to get to the spot he wanted to get to…

            here again, I think we have been misled by the reigns to what we want to believe. that the “spot” that was special was small in physical space, imo. ff’s special spot was all in compassing. meaning Yellowstone in general was his special spot. the destination was small, (the chest). it’s setting huge.

            one thing I can add to the chase and may be debated for the rest of days, He choose the spot as a central location to the true thing dear to his heart, Yellowstone in general. and to add some real controversy, that specific group of trees were only special as representing deep in the middle of Yellowstone, and where he could still get to at 80yrs old.

            the absolute 10″x10″ spot is more representational, than what we were led by the reigns to believe. imo

          • Hi Writis: I don’t think you’re quite getting what I meant when I wrote that for the GPS homonym solution to be correct, Forrest would have to have chosen the specific location BECAUSE of its coordinates. In your post you address Forrest’s choice of words to achieve those particular coordinates, but that’s not the issue. With word choice he could easily encode whatever coordinates he wanted. No — what matters (if this solution had been correct) is that he selected words and line-parsing to specifically generate 44d 26.000′ N, 111d 42.200′ W. My focus is on those (unencoded) five zeroes in the coordinates.

            To precisely navigate to within (say) 12 feet of the treasure’s location (roughly the precision of GPS), the third decimal place on the latitude and longitude minutes IS significant. In fact, the coordinates would have to be:

            44d 26.000′ +/- 0.002′
            110d 42.200′ +/- 0.0033′

            in order to get you within 12 feet (“several steps”) of the treasure. The chances that the place Forrest always knew he wanted to hide the treasure had only a 0.0055% chance of being within 12 feet of the coordinates specified in the poem. That’s what I mean when I say it was the COORDINATES that dictated the hiding location, not the other way around.

            That, to me, is the biggest flaw in this GPS solution: Forrest, in my opinion, would never have chosen his precise spot based merely on a mathematical feature of the coordinate system.

    • @writis
      would you post a link or links to the video you are referencing and the conversation that seems to have preceded these posts? TIA

  71. Hi All
    I know that this may get axed by Del but I don’t know where else to
    put it. On the Finder story last picture,Forrest ask why did I put
    the scissors in the chest,Finder said he didn’t know that might be king
    Tuts.Nope

    Then went on to talk about Eric Sloane and seventeen dollars a square inch
    and the dobble Omegas at the end of most of Forrests books.
    My thoughts ,why the scissors and the dragon bracelet just above.
    The scissors loops look a lot like the dobble Omega and the dragon bracelet
    looks like the _H_ __O __B .Look at big pictures Forrests said.
    WWWH West Yellowstone and the Park ,Canyon Down ,The Shoshone
    River Canyon down to the put in place below HOB .also look at the
    cloth that was holding the dragon bracelet.The rusty scissors left some
    brown stains. Just my thoughts and where I have been looking the
    four years.Clint Please don’t AXE me DEL

  72. With all the travel restrictions due to Covid, I’m afraid of traveling from one end of the house to the other without the fear of a warrant for my arrest.

    Dare I mention that wearing a mask is like wearing a seatbelt? It’s there to protect lives.

    • Suzy – pretty sure it’s safe to travel A to B in your own house, but only if you follow these highly important procedures;

      1) never forget to carry an EPIRB, inflatable life-raft and mosquito net everywhere

      2) never hug, kiss, piggy-back, wrestle or simply hold hands with loved ones

      3) never projectile-vomit in a rotational aspect at a formal black-tie dinner party

      hope this helps 🙂

      • oh gosh.. sorry ’bout that Suzy – was it the hug, kiss, holding hands thing that sickened you spontaneously? yep..know exactly what ya sayin’

        i mean..give me ‘rotational projectile vomiting’ every day o’ the week too..

        ..it’s very Iggy Pop 🙂 🙂

        • LOL …!!

          No, you brought back to reality… and just when I was in my own fantasy world.

          But just so you know, the projectile vomit thing hit me right in the eye.

          Hard to walk away from that!

          … and Iggy Pop too! 🙂 lol

          • Forgot to mention… I nearly got lost in the video link. Mimes are incredible to watch! It’s nearly like you want to fill their shoes and do exactly what they do. Almost like a proxy of one’s inner self.

          • IDK … maybe something you do just before you go on a ride that’s going to make you hurl?

            Oh wait, I see… my comment from up above.

            Okay, so now I’m guessing that the “down undies” people never use them, right? Maybe outback people get more of a thrill when they get tossed from the ride? 🙂 🙂

          • Hey Curious, give me an Australian Quarter Pounder and I’ll wet my appetite enough to ask you another silly question.

            Alright, don’t get so upset… you know I’m just joking! 🙂

    • Thank you for the link, Dal. Cynthia did a great job putting this together. I enjoyed the story and look forward to the others. Mr. Fenn met some lively people over the years.

  73. I got an idea about how the poem ties in to Forrest the collector, that’s what he loved to do. When you’re dealing in collections, you’re usually dealing in many like objects. The more the better for the collector. So how do you express many in the English language? Most of the time, by putting an S at the end of a word.
    If you go through the poem, you’ll find 9 words that end in S: As, treasures, riches, waters, it’s, is, loads, is, answers.
    That could be the clue in TFTW, couldn’t it? I don’t own either book, but I think in TFTW he had a copy of the poem where the word “answers” was singular. No S on the end. I’m not sure how to use this or if it’s even significant. Just thought I’d share it.

  74. Rumors that Forrest was once a CIA agent have occasionally surfaced over the years, but I don’t recall ever reading any credible proof, or anyone posting a link or image to a reputable source making that claim. But yesterday searcher “Quest” on THOR provided a link to a four-column article in the Cincinnati Enquirer newspaper from August 10th, 1980, entitled “On the Trail of J. H. Sharp.” The fifth paragraph begins: “FENN, A Texan who is a retired fighter pilot and an ex-CIA agent, came to Santa Fe seven years ago to ‘slow down,’ but so far he has been too successful to relax.”

    The timing of the article was such that Forrest hadn’t yet decided on the title of his J. H. Sharp book: “Sharp wrote a few pages of an autobiography once. He was going to call it Teepee Smoke, so I might use that. But I have another idea. Once he was asked if his deafness had ever been a burden. He answered ‘The only thing that I regret is that I have never heard the beat of the drum and the hoop of the dance.’ I may call the book ‘The Beat of the Drum and the Hoop of the Dance.'”

    Of course, now we know that Forrest ended up doing both (with the alteration from hoop to whoop). 🙂

    Apologies for the long link:

    https://www.newspapers.com/image/?clipping_id=28329148&fcfToken=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJmcmVlLXZpZXctaWQiOjEwMTQwNDE5NSwiaWF0IjoxNjA1ODM1NjE2LCJleHAiOjE2MDU5MjIwMTZ9.Ma7ugAiSv2n2MsyzhaOCycFMd3fwqsdN8-7kdGC85OY

    • Hello zaphod. I recall hearing about this a few years ago. I wonder when he would have held this position should this be true. He entered the Air Force when he was 20 years old in 1950 and he was in it for twenty years, which brings us to 1970. In 1972, Mr. and Mrs. Fenn and the family moved to Santa Fe in 1972. He seemed very busy establishing his art gallery. What are your thoughts? Would it have been possible?

    • Hi pdenver: in the latter part of Forrest’s Air Force career, it’s possible he could have worked concurrently for the C.I.A., which would widen the window of opportunity for that to have occurred. The slang term for this is “sheep dipping.” That term probably means something completely different in the land of curious hobbits where sheep vastly outnumber people. 😉

    • Zap-
      Air America was a CIA operated airline delivering passengers and cargo from about 1946 to after the Vietnam War. Some have suggested that Forrest may have worked for Air America during his years in the AF…but that is unlikely for a couple reasons..
      1. He was not flying passenger or cargo planes
      2. If you looked at his log book you’d see he had virtually no opportunity to do anything during his time in VN except fly combat missions.

      Another, more likely possibility in my estimation, is that he worked with the CIA during the Cold War…For instance when he was putting together the Fechin show and worked with Armand Hammer. Some of that story was written on Jenny’s site. Of course he never mentions any CIA involvement.
      https://mysteriouswritings.com/a-personal-reflection-on-nicolai-fechin-by-forrest-fenn/

      I asked him about his reputed CIA involvement and he pointedly denied it. Yet, there are places where he embraced it. Another Fenn mystery unlikely to ever be unriddled by the likes of us.

      • A family member of mine (passed 2/3/20) was on launch crew for U2 Gary Francis Powers out of Turkey. He was 23 years Air Force/CIA. I sent Forrest the obituary but he said he didn’t know him. They were in many of the same places at the same time. I was not convinced.

        • Always bothered me about that quote Pauley T and still does given how it has played out thus far. Lot’s of web-like scenarios sinister and benign come to mind, but I avoid making flash in the pan judgements about people I don’t know and opt to let time dictate an outcome.

          Who is Mr. FF really? Mabe dal can provide us with a Finding Forest story.

          • PauleyT, I’m with Windsurfer…
            That particular Fenn quote bothers me. On one hand it could simply refer to making people believe your line of bs to sell a piece of expensive art. On the other hand, it leads me to believe ol ff was hiding a couple of dark secrets, including two that live in the poem. I won’t explain now because it needs to be shown in a poem grid, and also because ff is no longer here to refute or defend his words.

  75. This is off topic….
    I was wondering why there was a pair of rusty scissors in the chest (and also the key without being inside a plastic bag).
    Forrest made two trips to hide the chest. One with only the chest and another with the contents. How is it possible that he did not notice the scissors both times, first when he removed the contents so to split the trip and then when he filled the chest at the hidden spot?
    Any comments?

    • Hello Pablo. I can only guess the following and could be totally wrong. I wonder if Mr. Fenn placed the treasures in the bag(s) while at home, perhaps alone, before heading to Wyoming. What if the last items to be placed was the coins and he simply tipped the chest to empty them in a bag, while a pair of scissors was hidden among it, not seeing it. Perhaps the same while he emptied the treasures into the chest. According to the Finder, Mr. Fenn seemed puzzled and asked why the scissors were in there. As for the key not being in a bag, it appears it was the last thing to do in regards to the chest, and he simply placed it inside to be seen by the eventual finder. We can only guess at this point.

  76. Oversight? In lieu said stead AKA, Forrest’s unique imagination. Maybe having the scissors represent two parts (#’s) and also a letter as they are together but open on their hinge. The key makes sense in one way or another with scissors. Their history of rusting shows Forrest meant them to accompany the rest of the contents let their metal determine figurative/literal expectancy….

  77. FYI:
    Those of you still curious about “The Fenn Cache”, a remarkable collection of Clovis points once owned by Forrest, you can view some of the magnificent images of those points taken by Peter Bostrom at:
    https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/stoneage/fenn.html

    There was a documentary about the collection on NOVA and of course there was a book. published by Forrest and written by George Frison and Bruce Bradley. A few years ago I found a used copy of the book on eBay.

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