Where Warm Waters Halt…

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This is for a discussion about Where Warm Waters Halt. We’ve all got ideas that didn’t work out or we are willing to share…I think we can give folks just starting out some ideas for the kinds of places that might just be the place Where Warm Waters Halt…or not!

Let the discussion continue…

dal…

The Poem Married to a Map….

July 2019

By CharlieM

 

Apologies with the length to ensure clarity and the process involved in finding the clues. I do ask for all to put all biases aside and not use comments that came from Forrest Fenn in the past.

In my efforts for locating the treasure I have been looking for factual places, things and directions that I believe that pertain to the clues and hints within the poem. I base the style of searching of only matching the clues in the poem on a map. I have steered away from using the book “The Thrill of the Chase”, with its unintended hints sprinkled within the stories that may help. Basically I wanted to see if, just using only the poem and a map would work and not using most of the comments after the book came out from Forrest Fenn, including his later books and scrapbooks. However I did not ignore the comments from Forrest in regards to where not to search along with the high and low elevation limits. 

I took the first stanza of the poem, “As I have gone alone in there and with my treasures bold, I can keep my secret where, and hint of riches new and old.”, as being stated by the man that hid a treasure by himself in the mountains; he’s going to keep the secret where the treasure is hidden and he is going to give hints to find the treasure chest full of new and old gold and jewels within the poem. The first stanza I took as and intro. This stanza has no clues and does not help in finding the treasure.

1st Clue –Begin it where warm waters halt” What does the word “warm waters halt” really mean?

Waters is plural; river water is made up of different water that merges together on its downhill course to become waters.

I looked at major rivers of the Madison, Jefferson, Yellowstone, Gallatin, Colorado, Arkansas, Animas and Rio Grande that would fit the words, “warm waters”. The Jefferson and the Gallatin rivers have a majority of cold waters, so I deleted those two from the search. All of the other rivers that I mentioned become warm in the majority length of each river naturally. 

With what I have wrote so far, the Madison, Yellowstone, Arkansas, Colorado, Animas and the Rio Grande have a majority of their waters are warm and has to originate in the Rocky Mountains. I feel those rivers can be considered as warm waters. Each of those rivers start out cold and become a “majority” of warm “waters”, the exception is the Madison River, as it starts out warm with the merging of very hot & cold water. Also the Madison waters do not halt in reality, (physics) and it is hard to consider where exactly it becomes fully warm. One may quibble about cold waters at the beginning of a river and later on becoming warm, the fact is, it contains the very same waters throughout its length, (physics).

In reading the poem we know there is a starting place and we all know there is a distance involved to be able to put in someplace below the home of Brown. So while taking a look at the rivers mentioned I also looked for a place named Brown and did not take into consideration for places that were named “Brown’s, Browns” or a name before Brown. I also felt the name Brown is of a geographical place in the mountains and found on a map. One can’t see on a geographical map in the mountains places of a person’s home that has a name Brown, fish and animals, nor did I consider towns named Brown, because there is no town with that name in places that I looked.

Melting snowpack causes the start of flowing water for each of those rivers. The water for rivers coming from the Rocky Mountains, do stop flowing, “halt”, at the same place from where they began. Sure, the rivers continue to flow because of other tributaries further down the line, but are farther from where the waters originally started and halted.

I discounted the Madison, Yellowstone, Arkansas, Colorado and the Animas rivers because they do not start and maintain the same name from where the waters start its actual flow, (physics). Each of those rivers start by “name” only, because they have two or more different named tributaries that merge together that make up the start of the “naming” of the river. It becomes a guessing game of which of the two or more starting tributaries are where warm waters halt. In order to be a halt of river waters it must be in one singular place where waters flow does halt, (physics), because of no snowpack and have no tributaries that merge together at its beginning. Also the rivers cannot be tributaries of any other river flow, because this creates and even bigger quagmire. 

Here are good examples that I found through research;

(a) The “named” Yellowstone River starts where two tributaries, the North Fork and the South Fork Yellowstone merge together. So which tributary is the right one where warm waters do halt? It becomes a guess, so the Yellowstone River is out with no place that is named Brown off in the distance.

(b) The “named” Madison River starts from two tributaries, where Gibbon and the Fire Hole Rivers merge. It becomes a guess as well. The Madison is out with no place that is named Brown off in the distance.

(c) The “named” Arkansas River starts where the tributaries of the Tennessee Creek and the East Fork Arkansas River merge together.  It becomes a guess as well. The Arkansas River is out with no place that is named Brown off in the distance. I did go one step further and went to the start of the East Fork Arkansas River to be fair and still no place that is named Brown.

(d) The “named” Colorado River starts where the tributaries of the Tonahutu Creek and the North Inlet Creek merge together before a dam. It becomes a guess also. The Colorado River is out with no place that is named Brown off in the distance.

(e) The “named” Animas River starts where the tributaries of the West Fork Animas River and the Burrows Creek merge together. The Animas River is out with no place that is named Brown off in the distance.

(f) The “named” Rio Grande is without any tributaries to form its beginning. It is a singular place where the river starts and has a true Headwaters. A majority of this river is warm, it has the same start and halt place (physics), it also has a place that is named Brown off in the distance. Also the Rio Grande is not a tributary of any river. I will also show later on, my concluded treasure location is nowhere near this river.

One other simplistic idea, “warm” could very well be in the southern Rockies which is usually warmer than the northern Rockies and could very well be considered to look at the rivers in the southern end of the Rockies. This simplistic idea does need more to substantiate this thought. Also, I did not consider any super heated water coming from any hot spring as being warm and that water is constantly moving and truly does not halt, even through seasonal changes. 

Reminder again; the melting snowpack is where the river waters start flowing (physics) and when the snowpack is gone the waters do “halt” (physics), which contains the very same river waters on its flow, for the entire length of the river. The majority length of the Rio Grande is of warm waters. 

So, the Rio Grande at its headwater, I have concluded this is the first clue’s answer to, “where warm waters halt”. By the way Forrest did say that the treasure is not “near” the Rio Grande. I believe I can show that the treasure is not anywhere near the river, the headwater is merely the starting point.

2nd Clue – “And take it in the canyon down,” But which canyon? There are three canyons in the immediate area using the map. So I chose the canyon and headed towards a place named Brown described in the radius area of search under the 3rd clue. I merely went to the canyon to go down from where the first clue is on the map.

 “Not far, but too far to walk” I believe this is a hint for a distance to arrive at the third clue. Too far to walk for me is about 7 miles, but I have to take into reasonable consideration that some folks may feel 5 miles is too far and for others it may be up to 15 or 20 miles. So, I cast a fifteen mile radius from the headwaters of the Rio Grande to help with the put in spot below the home of Brown. I’m not concerned about the distance at this point; it will become apparent when I know where, what or why, to “put in below the home of Brown.”

The 3rd clue is the end point of the distance from the first. (Note: This distance cannot be fully vetted until the location of below the home of Brown has been located. However a place named Brown was found in the general area. This does help somewhat in the direction to generally head towards.)

3rd Clue – “Put in below the home of Brown” Brown I took as a name otherwise it wouldn’t be capitalized at the end of the sentence. Brown I felt was a place or thing in nature, because normally one isn’t going to find a person or any other creature on a paper map or GE/GM in the Rocky Mountains. So, I’m looking for something named Brown in my radial search area. Again, the name Brown’s, Browns or has a name before Brown is not being taken into consideration. In my radial search I found Brown Mtn.

So below Brown Mtn. creates a problem, how far below is the “put in” place? Is it a foot, yard(s) or mile(s) below this mountain’s home? I physically went to Brown Mtn., above the town of Silverton, CO for the first time in my life and started looking for the clue as being “no place for the meek”. I didn’t find anything that represented as being meek, or causing one to be meek defined in a dictionary. Nor could I find anything else mentioned in the poem after “From there it’s no place for the meek”, directly below Brown Mtn. that fits, I returned home and went back to the map. (Note: With the first visit above Silverton, CO, of August 2017, I had not read “The Thrill of the Chase”, nor did I know of the blog sites. I became interested because of the pastor’s death through the news media. I started looking just for the challenge, and the treasure was a nice thing to have, I really don’t need it.)

It dawned on me while looking at the map that I had already been to an area that is “No place for the meek”, driving to and coming from Brown Mtn. The problem was, this area was not below Brown Mt. Studying the map from Brown Mtn., there is the canyon that starts at the base of the mountain that went directly all of the way to Silverton, which is below the mountain. It was then I found the “Put in” place below the home of Brown Mtn. and tied in with, “From there it’s no place for the meek.” It is the intersection after Taking it in the canyon down, not far, but too far to walk and highway 550, which is a “put in” place below Brown Mtn. that causes a momentary pause to head towards “no place for the meek”. (I did not consider the “put in” as a reference to water, because of Forrest parking his car.)

This I concluded is “too far to walk” from the headwater of the Rio Grande, (That distance now can be known, approximately 10 miles.) to the intersection of highway 550, and the “Put in below the home of Brown” Mountain. 

The image below shows the search Area. The red pins are clues and the Yellow pints are hints.

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CLICK ON IMAGE TO SEE IT LARGER

4th Clue- “From there it’s no place for the meek”. The first two words, “from there”, is somewhat vague in a way. It could mean to go to or through, or to head in the direction towards “it’s no place for the meek”. I did go through the “no place for the meek”, going to and from my first recon searching for what was the “Put in below the home of Brown”. I realized when I returned home looking at the map of the area that I had been there and felt very comfortable that the Hwy 550 from Ouray to Silverton, CO was “no place for the meek”.

My very first impression of the hwy was that it was unnerving to drive, because the hwy seemed narrower than other roads and there were little to no shoulders in many places with no guardrails. Driving along the road is cut out of shear steep rocks with shear steep drop offs and a long way to go to reach the rocky bottom. The road also had steep hairpin curves along the route. This is why I felt the route between Ouray and Silverton is “no place for the meek”. I did take into consideration that “some” folks wouldn’t be bothered driving this road, but not all folks would feel this way.

I felt I needed more to verify my thoughts and my word alone isn’t good enough. My wife and I needed some time away from home and went to Silverton for two days, just to explore the very old mining town. I did not do any searching as the San Juan National Forest was closed due to high fire danger.

My wife wouldn’t even look at the mountains or the deep chasms below along the route, because she would get sick because of the terrains height up and down, instead she read a book. Just for fun, I asked her if she wanted to drive on our return trip and it was a resounding NO. I also asked folks in Silverton and Ouray which were vacationers visiting shops, if they had driven the road from Ouray to Silverton and most of the comments where, spooky, scary, unnerving, being uneasy and did not want to drive the road again. I did ask the same question on my three other visits for my searches and the answers where basically the same. By the way, my close friend did drive to my following three searches, the first time up was uncomfortable for him driving the road and still was somewhat very attentive in driving the remaining search trips.

After I and my wife’s visit I went back to the map and started a search between Ouray and Silverton to see if the next two clues would fit in the area and have the need to go to or through “it’s no place for the meek.” Going through the route from Silverton it ends up at Ouray and from that town is all private property and out of the mountains. I also looked for a possible place that could be ever drawing near, “nigh” or something ever drawing to the left. This didn’t work out at all for either interpretation of, “the end is ever drawing nigh” because of the steep rocky canyon making it impossible to even search. 

So I now know what the phrase meant, “From there it’s no place for the meek”, from there is merely to head towards “no place for the meek”, which is the road along very steep solid rocks and hairpin turns, in the canyon between Ouray and Silverton. (Note: I feel if one discounts this without going to the area has no argument.)

5th Clue – “The end is ever drawing nigh” After searching through the “no place for the meek” as described above I found nothing that fit this interpretation of, “the end is ever drawing near”. I also thought that ever drawing near meant as never getting near the end. The other interpretation, “the end is ever drawing left”, I did find the road 558 on the map, it did slowly draw to the left all of the way to the end of the road. This Rd. 558 (gravel) starts approximately 2 miles just north of Silverton that is not in the canyon, it is well before, “no place for the meek”. So, the Rd. 558 is, “The end is ever drawing nigh”, (left).

6th Clue – “There’ll be no paddle up your creek, just heavy loads and water high” Looking at the map there is a creek that runs along the side of Rd. 558, the creek is deep enough for watercraft, (canoes, kayaks, small rafts), to pass through. This creek I did see on my prior two visits. There is a small creek, Clear Lake Creek, which is impossible to paddle up. The creek is very narrow, rocky and steep, flowing through steep and high rocky walls on both sides and contains small waterfalls.

“Just” to me does not indicate for a searcher to go to heavy loads or water high. “Just heavy loads” can go up along the creek. Heavy loads can only mean one or two things, its either vehicles or back packing. The other, “water high” I took as, there is water high up the creek.

As it turns out there is a jeep trail that goes up to Clear Lake and there is a trail that hikers and backpackers use to go up to another lake, Ice Lake. So the hikers and backpackers and four wheelers going up the trail was strongly considered as “Heavy loads”. The “water high” up are the natural lakes.

The 7th clue, while looking at the map, the creek, high lakes and the trail does put one in a small location to search for the chest. I believe that was the intent of, “There’ll be no paddle up your creek, just heavy loads and water high”. If someone where to go up the jeep trail or the path, they are quickly beyond the high elevation limit set by Forrest, as not where the treasure is hidden.

 7th Clue – “If you been wise and found the blaze” Looking at the map, (Google Maps), I found only 3 things that could be a blaze, there is nothing else that could be considered as a blaze. The first thing that could be a blaze was the jeep trail going up the side of the mountain to Clear Lake. It stands out prominently on the map. The second thing that could be a blaze, is the hiking trail, because it too can be seen on the map. The third blaze can be seen as a white marking on the map, because of the creeks flow over the rocks and falls, which is Clear Creek.

On my next three visits to search, I was on time constraints because of my close friend’s obligations. I was not going by myself, as it is never wise to be on foot alone in the mountains. I and my friend, we are each other’s first responder. For each trip there was the driving and searching in one day, stay overnight in a hotel then drive back home.

The only way to verify each possible blaze was to find what could be considered as “in the wood”. For each of the blazes, one does need to be at the base in order to “look quickly down”. It didn’t make sense to look quickly down anywhere from the top of each of the probable blazes or anywhere in between. The problem was, there are four likely places that could be considered as “wood”.

I started with the least likely blaze, the jeep trail, because it was the farther of all from the small location. When one looks quickly down on the map for this blaze, there is an old log jam that can be considered as “in the wood”. The portions of the logs were not under water, which is where I first looked for the treasure, which by the way did not produce the chest. If standing at the base of this blaze, one clearly could not see the wood or this blaze.

My second least likely blaze trip to the area was to search below what I perceived as the white blaze being shown on the map. In looking quickly down, it also had some log jams just below the waterfalls of Clear Creek. This also proved to not contain the chest in the logs.

The third trip was because, there also was an old log jam on dry ground, below the true trailhead of the trail, the possible blaze, which could be seen from the map, but those logs, could not be seen while there. I did not much care for this log jam because it was in plain sight and near the campground and could be used and broken up for campfires. Never the less it had to be searched.

I and my friend did look in the first part of June this year 2019. This third trip was twofold; the primary reason for going up early was because there were many avalanches in the San Juan Mountains and the area I was searching was very near steep mountains, I wanted to know if the search area was effected by an avalanche. If the search area was not harmed, we were to search the old log jam. As it turns out there had been a very destructive avalanche in the area and that old log jam, which had been there before the Chase began, was gone because of the large surge of water, snow and downed trees, down the Ice Lake Creek and the Mineral Creek. 

While there I stood at the base of the Ice Lake Trail and looked quickly down, looking straight forward to about the quarter of the way to fully looking down. Sure enough my fourth in the wood stood out right away. The wood is an isolated group of three pine trees from the main forest trees. If one thinks about the trail as the blaze, it truly is in its self a blaze and needs no markers that guides one up to one of lakes and is a defined path to follow, unlike trails that are vague and needs markers (blazes) to aide someone to achieve their destination. I have determined the Ice Lake Trail to be the “blaze” it is tied to the 9th clue. By the way, “Tarry Scant”, I strongly feel means to, “not doddle with little time”, to stare at a marvelous find, for the place that contains the chest.

The fifth stanza of the poem, “So why is it that I must go and leave my trove for all to seek? The answer I already know, I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.” This is merely a question as to why he hid the treasure; it does not have any clues or hints that will aide in finding the treasure. Forrest does know why he hid the treasure, before he hid the treasure he is stating he was tired before hiding the chest and was weak after the treasure was hidden. There also are no clues or hints in this line of this stanza that will aide one in finding the treasure.

8th Clue– “So hear me all and listen good, your effort will be worth the cold.” Some may think this line is included with the last clue; however it is not something to ignore. Standing at the base of the blaze, (trail), there is something in the way to get to the last clue and that is the “cold” creek, of the South Fork of Mineral Creek. One needs to take the “effort” to cross the rocky creek bottom with its “cold” water. On one side of the creek is shallow and the other side of the creek is deeper. For some it may not be that difficult and other’s it will take effort to cross.

9th Clue – “If you are brave and in the wood I give you title to the cold.” If one is “brave” enough to go among the prickly needles and branches in the cluster of the three pine trees to get into the “wood”. (An area of land, smaller than a forest, which is a small group of growing trees) One should go in among the cluster of three pine trees to retrieve the treasure. I’m confident the cluster of the three pine trees contains the hidden treasure.

You may ask why I didn’t retrieve the treasure to complete the poem. At the time of my last visit this year, the creek was not safe to cross because of the melting snow runoff. Also I do not have the capability to cross the creek, even when the creek is at its normal level. I am a below the knee amputee and wear a prosthesis and I lose my balance while crossing rocks on dry land. I am not going to risk injury while trying to maintain my balance on slippery rocks and when I can’t fully see and feel what I am stepping on.

Can you imagine me going down with a heavy load on my back even at some 20 pounds on slippery rocks? If I did fall with a load of 20 lbs in this situation the likely hood of me not getting my feet under me is huge. My friend that I have and searched with has difficulty in this situation with a knee and hip replacements as well.

There is no other way to go down the other side of this creek as there are no bridges, roads or even trails, unless you wade across the creek.

I am very confident without an ego, that I have shown the clues within the poem are of actual places and things and the clues are continuous and solidly linked together. All that I ask is to study thoroughly with what I have presented and why. This I feel has nothing to do with coincidences.

The reality is, Forrest himself has not said a word about any clue’s answer or what the location is. Yes, he has given many hints, but has not pointed out its location references. Some of those hints that he does give out relate to a process that may help in finding the treasure. The subtle hints in his book, “The Thrill of the Chase”, I strongly believe those hints are a word or a combination of words and not so much about the stories themselves. I love his stories and scrapbooks about his life, family and friends and I am humbled that he has shared this with all. 

The person that does use what I have presented can go and possibly retrieve the treasure. I don’t know how Forrest would feel about this. I merely would like Forrest to know that his treasure has been found and he once again has his coveted silver bracelet with the turquoise stones. If not, I or anyone else will have to wait until the treasure has been found.

As for me the treasure is not a need to have, nor do I want to improve my lifestyle. I am comfortable were I am in life. (No I am not wealthy) It has been the challenge to solve the poem to see if I could fully fulfill the challenge. I also hope the one that does retrieve the chest, that they truly need the treasure for themselves and their family.

Here is my challenge to all of those that may respond to this post. Try very, very hard to not use what Forrest has commented on in the past as a means for a rebuttal except for those that are related to where not to search and the elevation limits and please don’t use a hypothetical as a basis for rebuttal. I am asking for sound facts related only to the Poem of actual places, things and directions it speaks of.

-CharlieM

 

 

 

 

Forrest Gets Mail – 22

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This email came in today and I am posting it here with permission from the writer. How do you help someone who says they don’t need help, when you know they do? f

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Dear Forrest,

I want to thank you for just being you. I am a single mom of 5 kids and I raised all my kids the hard way pay check to pay check. I never had money to send my kids to the activities that kids do baseball soccer football cheerleading that kind of stuff that you got to pay a lot of money for. So anyway I instead found ways to to keep my kids entertained. And that was bottle digging and the dig is easy but doing the research of a town to find where a privy to dig up the privy to find a bottles doing the history was the thrill for me and it taught my kids a lot of stuff about Maps and history of the town they lived in. I took them in the woods to teach them to mushroom hunt for morels. We all went camping fishing in our little town. I would maybe have 5 bucks for gas and we would go drive around Missouri and look for creeks to walk in to look for arrowheads or get fish put them in our homemade fish tank, And so this is how you help me my kids all grew up they are all out on their own all 5 and they are all doing good with life. No drugs no serious drinking you know they’re just normal kids all five. I don’t know how I got so lucky cuz some moms out there are dealing with having to raise their grandbaby cuz the kids are on drugs, sad. Well after all kids left I was alone I spent my whole life taking care of my kids and when the last one left I felt so alone. I was like making plans to just weather away and die because I had no kids to take care of anymore. And then you came along and your story. Well I am still a little too poor to afford your book but one day I will be able to and I’ll get to read your book I’m excited about that one day. Well I got to see a lot of it. Your book off of you tube…And your treasure hunt got me back into looking up history learning about the Indians and the brown trout how beautiful Yellowstone is I don’t get to see it in person but I do get to see it through other people’s cameras the GoPros whatever they use to film stuff. It got me out of feeling sorry for myself and getting back to living. And what you said about you can shut one door and open other, So once again I am living and that is why I felt the need to write you and thank you. I do love the Thrill of the chase I didn’t get to read your book but just the thrill of the chase of looking up history in finding something that’s never been found. I do know about your poem that you have no x letter in your poem and. X marks the spot..That is really neat. Your kewl. Take care and thanks for being you.

Thunderose

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Missing the Mountains Already…

June 2019

By Veronica and Izzy

 

I have been wracking my brain trying to think how I can share my search without giving away my location. So I wrote a poem…
Enjoy!

Izzy and I aimed our car at the Wild, Wild West,

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To search for treasure where we thought might fit the best .
So we drove all day and most of the night,

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Got some rest , then hit the road by first light.
Finally made it to where the warm waters stop,

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Then drove not too far with our canoe on the top.

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We searched all over for that home of Brown,
Don’t mind us…We’re just passing through town.

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We looked all over in the places not very meek,

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We even found a paddle up the paddle-less creek!

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No chest to be found , but there are riches galore,
So much to see, and so much to explore!

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So, get in your car and aim it out West

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And visit the Rockies where you’ll be put to the test.
For me and my boy , we count down the days,
Til we can search again and find that dang blaze!

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Now get off the couch and go smell the sunshine, Y’all!
– Veronica & Izzy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

River Bathing is Best Solve, Clue 1-5

June 2019

By Jake Faulker

 

The Thrill of the Chase has hints and subtle hints that will help you get the general area down and I think these are places considering we have to marry the clues in the poem to places on a map and the poem also has directions, places and things at places.

In Love With Yellowstone
West Yellowstone
Looking For Lewis And Clark
The Madison’s
The Gallatin’s
Yellowstone National Park
Flywater
Geography
Google Maps and/or a good map
The Poem
The Memoirs
Imagination

1 – Begin it where warm waters halt 
After reading his books and poem multiple times, I have come to the conclusion that chapter 5 “too far to walk” River Bathing Is Best, is where to begin. He tells a story of his bathing spot near Ojo Caliente spring on the Firehole River in Yellowstone National Park. Note: He never mentions Ojo Caliente, but we now know that was his bathing spot in the Firehole near Ojo.

This spot should not be in a canyon and isn’t seeing we need to take it (The quest) in the canyon down next.

“when I decided it was time to leave I’d back a couple of feet downstream where the water was cold. That gave me instant incentive to climb out and sun dry…”

*Omega shape on this part of the Firehole River

*5th line in the poem and the 5th chapter in – too far to walk

*He went alone in there

**My secret bathing spot

**Always worth the effort

**https://www.oldsantafetradingco.com/blog/river-bathing-is-best

firehole swim

ojo

2 – And take it in the canyon down, 

The only canyon down (In elevation) is the Firehole Canyon.

Maybe this explains why many have figured the 1st 2 clues correctly and fizzled out.

firehole canyon

canyon down

Not far, but too far to walk.

Not a clue here, just letting you know what you shouldn’t do and maybe just drive.

3 – Put in below the home of Brown. 

In the preface of his book “too far too walk”, he states “put a small rubber dingy in the Madison River a few miles from West Yellowstone and fished downstream to Baker’s Hole. The river distance was about 10 miles”

“The river experience cemented my connection to that special country and I promised myself that someday I would make the trip again. THAT DAY NEVER CAME FOR ME,…. For me now, it’s just too far to walk.”

Some have decided to figure out what the home of Brown is instead of knowing where it is before trying to figure out where warm waters halt. Big mistake!

I think Forrest is the only one who knows WHAT the home of Brown is and you will only find out after you find the treasure. I do not think this place is labeled on any map, new or old.

One way to figure out where this clue is, is to skip it and figure out the next few clues if you can do this. I was able to do this and the next few clues seem to work with what the poem says.

What’s more important? The “put in” spot? or where you are going to draw, take or get out of the waterway. Try that out on a river or lake and you will see what I mean. It’s more important where you get out.

put in

put in madison

4 – From there it’s no place for the meek, 

From there? The place you put in, then let the river flow take you down stream passing through Fenn’s favorite, special fishing spots to the border of Yellowstone National Park.

Joseph Meek was a trapper, trader & hunter back in the 1800’s when there was no park label and designation back then.

There is no hunting or trapping allowed in Yellowstone National Park now and the park is no place for him.

If you don’t like Joe Meek in the mix, then you could say it’s no place for Fenn now. Seeing that day never came for him, I would have to say he is meek in the park now with all the crowds and fisherman all over his special fishing spots.

This clue brings you just outside the park at the border in West Yellowstone.

meek place

5 – The end is ever drawing nigh; 

You’re at the border of the park and there’s a bridge close by.

You have to draw out of the Madison River there and head North on Gallatin Road.

NIGH = North Intrastate Gallatin Highway, is Intrastate Highway (191). It is also known as the “Gallatin Gateway” and reminds me of “The word that is key”. Gallatin County appears to be in the shape of a key.

You will need a key to unlock the “Gateway”.

The end is ever drawing North Intrastate Gallatin Highway;

Hop on the bridge and head north to your creek.

Gallatin County below.

gallatin county

There are over 30 creeks up the Gallatin Gateway and it’s been tough to pick out a few that fit the poem. All the areas in this solve are places that Fenn loved which makes sense to me where he hid the treasure.

gallatin nigh

The Gallatin River where you can paddle.

ode joe

Ode to Joe fishing spot from too far to walk on the Gallatin.

I think this is a basic simple straightforward solve by my design and guidance from Fenn’s comments.

All these clues do not have to be physically traveled. Just use your imagination to get from one place to another and don’t overcook or over think what is right in front of you.

Good luck to all of you and please simplify if you can.

-Jake

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Forrest Gets Mail – 21

canada map vector

A dear friend sent me an email today to announce the birth of a grandchild. She sounded like she had just won the lotto.
Here is part of that email. Maybe there will be a rush of treasure hunters across our northern border. What do you think? f


Forrest, guess what…here in Canada someone heard your poem/treasure story and they formed a company that hid 3 treasures in 3 cities and wrote a poem for each city/treasure. One in Vancouver, British Columbia, one in Edmonton, Alberta and one in Calgary, Alberta. Each treasure chest is worth approximately $100,000. They had several writers/poets who wrote the clues for each of the three poems. They are selling the poems for each city, $25 each or $45 each with bonus clues. They were hoping that the sales for the poems would offset the initial treasures combined total of $300,000 in gold and silver Canadian coins. The poems were released on June 1, 2019. As of June 2 the Edmonton treasure had been discovered.

I’d say they might should have just asked for your poem/clue writing abilities in order to elude their treasures searchers a touch longer. At least it got people out of there house for a day, perhaps the other two cities will be slightly more challenging but I believe neither will outlast yours!!

Have a wonderful day,
Nelika

 

 

 

 

Poem, Map, Geography and Imagination…

May, 2019

By Troy

 

First, consider Fenn’s words.

“Your treasure hunt has inspired people worldwide to discover history, culture and nature, but many people, (even in the US) might be deterred because they don’t live near the Rockies or can’t afford to travel. Should they be deterred? Can a little girl in India, who speaks good English, but only has your poem and a map of the US Rocky Mountains, work out where the treasure is? And would she be confident as she solves each clue, or only confident when she has solved them all?”

“I wish I had another treasure to hide in the Appalachians. The little girl in India cannot get closer than the first two clues. There are many disabled people who are deeply into maps and geography, and they are having a lot of fun.”

Given Fenn’s intentional vagueness, I am making a huge assumption that “having a lot of fun” means they have a chance to solve more than the first 2 clues and maybe figure it out.

I could be wrong, but it’s just too time-consuming to start everywhere, so I need to start somewhere.

“Children have the greatest imagination because their thoughts run free”

My approach: Poem, map, extensive knowledge of geography and imagination.

Most people on the search sites appear to conduct their searches by poem, map, imagination, geography, ecology, history, riddles, codes, Fenn’s real or imagined hints, and anything and everything else.  They appear to look at anything and everything and hope their mind clicks onto the connection. Doing it this way adds a crazy high number of variables and introduces a very strong cognitive bias that is based on their own experiences instead of reason.  I need to set parameters and continually follow them, so I don’t also waste time and go off the rails.

I only need the poem, a map, an extensive knowledge of geography, and my imagination to find the treasure.  Nothing else. Get back in the box.

  • The poem vs a treasure map: my approach will be this.  Fenn created a treasure map that is primarily geographic in nature, but he put it in a poem. Imagination will be needed to turn the poem into geographic terms. My first search will be based on this approach. I could be wrong, but it’s just too time-consuming to start everywhere, and I need to start somewhere.
  • Ignore the book: Fenn thinks the book would help, but I think it wouldn’t because it’s a vast sea of words and phrases to analyze and potentially get wrong, vs. a small poem.
    • For example, take one sentence out of the book, idk, if he said, “I picked up a stick and threw it into my favorite lake.”…does this mean he hid the treasure at his favorite lake? Or should I pick up “stick creek” at a lake and go about as far as he could throw the stick into the lake????  Maybe, hmmm”.  Now multiply that by the number of sentences in the book. I think the book will only make sense after I find the treasure and then it will be like, oh yeah, I can see that.  Before that, it’s a massive waste of time.

Search area:

  • Treasure is in the Rocky Mountains, clues may be outside. Include areas bordering 4 states & Rocky Mountains

The first clue:

  • I only need a map for the first 2 clues, per little girl in India.
  • Map: Why has no one ever asked Fenn what kind of map we need to use? His poem shows a Benchmark map, but they only produce state maps. They also product Atlases, but he didn’t say all you need is an atlas. I have a strong feeling that Fenn owns very many detailed maps of many, many areas in the Rocky Mountains. Because I don’t want to invest in a bunch of detailed maps, I’m going to make a bad assumption that all I need is google earth and google maps. Someone needs to ask him about maps, although maybe they have, and I didn’t read it.
  • WW and WWWH: WW is a name on a map, per little girl in India. I need to say this to myself 5,000 times. WW is a name on a map. WWWH may also be a name on a map, or it may be where the WW obviously halts visibly on a map. Don’t forget imagination – for example, Agua Fria peak makes for a nice potential WWWH.
  • Go through google earth and map out everywhere in the Rocky Mountains that has a name related to WW or WWWH.  It may help to go to the hot springs website & mark all hot springs (https://maps.ngdc.noaa.gov/viewers/hot_springs/)
  • Google earth and google maps are a pain to use because it’s easy to miss areas when mapping out everything. I’ll use a benchmark state map to note where I’ve covered area on google.

Rest of the clues/poem:

  • Canyon down: For the first search, assume a canyon is a canyon.  This is probably the second clue, so will be a name on a map, or a canyon on an elevation map. Small chance it’s not a canyon, but don’t go off the rails on the first search. Down is either down a canyon wall, or it’s following the canyon floor as it goes lower in elevation.
  • Far but not too far to walk: For the first search, assume 20 miles, which is a 5 hour walk at 4 miles an hour. It could be a higher number of miles, but it exponentially increases the search criteria. If first search fails, this is the first variable to increase and redo the search, to 30 miles, then 40 miles, etc.
  • Home of Brown: Start thinking geographically.
    • Most likely Not a name on a map, unless this is the second clue.
    • Geography: when most people think of geography, they think of physical geography, but it can also include human civilization & how animals play into it. Physical geography takes priority, but don’t discount the others.
      • Physical geography: There are so many brown things in the wild that it’s meaningless to limit by “thinking of brown things”. We know that Fenn knows about the paint color brown (ocher, sienna, etc.), per his writings. It could literally mean an outcropping or a current or past quarry/mine for the main minerals used to create artist’s brown paint. Limonite or an oxide or something. It’s unclear to me whether it’s just the treasure that isn’t in a structure, or if it’s all the clues. Outcroppings are probably more likely, but don’t discount quarries/mines.
      • People geography: the only thing I can think of are pueblos or pueblo ruins.
      • Animal geography: beaver dam, brown trout, maybe bison, etc.
  • End is ever drawing nigh: think geographically, use imagination
    • A draw can be defined geographically in terms of water, but to me, it makes more sense to use the definition as a sort of mini-canyon with 2 sides.
    • Nigh could be left, either go left or on left side of draw, or nigh could mean nothing
    • End could be end of draw, or nothing
  • No paddle up creek:
    • I can’t see this any way other than going upstream on a river/stream/creek. “No paddle” could limit search to places “too shallow to paddle” but if it’s not, I don’t want to limit my search. In nature, if you’re up a creek without a paddle, you find a pole and pole down.
  • Heavy loads and water high:
    • Physical geography load: I think it’s most likely a stream load. Either a heavy load bed (big rocks in it), or it’s a stream with heavy load capacity (like a braided stream).
    • Physical geography water high: High water mark doesn’t really make sense for fresh-water. Imagination: maybe a waterfall or a perch lake. My money is on waterfall.
    • Human geography load and high: Train tracks or past train tracks, maybe a heavy bridge. Maybe a water tower or similar. Could be others, but I’m thinking that Fenn likes wilderness, so I like physical geography better.
  • If you’ve been wise and found:
    • No idea what this means. Requires imagination.  I suspect this is Fenn’s “nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve”
    • Past tense probably means the treasure is somewhere on your journey — meaning, you determine where he’s talking about by the clues, but the blaze can be anywhere on the route after and including the first clue
    • Could be something complicated like you can only see the blaze when/where “fill in the blank” (looking down from a lookout point – being wise and all-seeing, when the sun is at zenith, etc.). I mean, maybe on the draw, you can see the blaze from far, far away, and the treasure is under the blaze. Find all possible places where other clues exist, and then use imagination to deduce wise/blaze.
  • The blaze:
    • Based on what he’s said about the blaze, and the within 500’/200′ comments, I’m guessing that the blaze is an unusual 4-sided outcropping of some sort, or maybe (doubtful) water. Trees and vegetation don’t last long enough, and really, what else is out there but mountains, rocks and water?
  • The treasure:
    • Don’t worry about the treasure, just find and identify the blaze. Per Fenn’s comment: “How far is the chest located from the blaze? Casey, I did not take the measurement, but logic tells me that if you don’t know where the blaze is it really doesn’t matter. If you can find the blaze though, the answer to your question will be obvious.”

Other Fenn hints about pine, sage, from the car in an afternoon, secluded enough area to let bones rest in peace: Fenn is tricky, so don’t trust these during the above search. Only look at these filters when you have a short list of solves. Look at the closest roads and ranger roads to the treasure site.  This is Very helpful afterwards. For example, a lot of areas with glaciers are too many miles away from any road.

-Troy

 

 

 

 

 

Home of Brown…

green

This is for a discussion about “the home of Brown” in Forrest’s poem.

Got an HOB that didn’t work out…or maybe you need an HOB for a certain area…or perhaps you have an idea that needs some fleshing out..

This is the place to discuss all things HOB…

dal…

Where Warm Waters Halt…Part Sixteen

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This page is now closed to new comments. To add to the discussion pleas go to the newest WWWH page.

This is for a discussion about Where Warm Waters Halt. We’ve all got ideas that didn’t work out or we are willing to share…I think we can give folks just starting out some ideas for the kinds of places that might just be the place Where Warm Waters Halt…or not!

Let the discussion continue…

dal…

Forrest Gets Mail – 20

fgmbl

Mr. Fenn,
I have thoroughly enjoyed the treasures of your stories, and thank you for sharing them. I am blind, and my friends tell me that Ray Charles and I “look alike”. I am pretty suspicious of their use of those words.
My computer can read me your book as I turn the pages, but only the text. I can not see any of the photos or non-text items. Does this hurt my chances of solving your poem in any way?
If I should happen to come up with some sort of solution, I have people that can take me. I may even pretend to solve it just have an excuse to smell the waters you mention and feel the grasses and rocks under my feet.
I am already richer for having experienced your guided tour of your travels through life.
Thank you,
Fred
———————————
Well Fred, because you can’t look at a map you certainly are at a disadvantage. I know where the treasure is hidden, but if I were blind even I couldn’t go to that spot. Sorry. Thanks for listening to my book. f